all right we're going to call this meeting of the Ocean Township environmental commission to order uh going to do a roll call member Colton member Johnson member godette is absent member Lutz here member Brandon here member m here and alternates tronte and baxi both told me that they would be unable to make it tonight statement of compliance with the open public meeting law the notice requirements of the open public meeting law for this meeting have been satisfied a copy of the annual notice was sent to the Asbury Park Press and the coaster hosted in town hall and filed in the office of the township Clark on June 30th 2023 this meeting will be recorded and available on the Township's YouTube channel our first order of business is minutes and Donna just so I'm right we only have the December meetings tonight did everyone have a chance to review the December meetings we talked about a lot this meeting remember that far back 2023 what was that I wasn't at that meeting okay so for the other I kind of looked at I didn't see anything okay well I'll make a motion to move the minutes I have a second seconded by number let's all in favor who want to vote I anyone who's abstaining got two extensions any opposed I'm not opposed I was trying to bring it up just a little um editorial nons substantive edit minut holding [Music] on yeah she has I'll on page two under the tree ordinance um it's it begins with earlier in the year and it says onor about November 1st 2024 the final treat ordinance was released that has to be a mistake yeah it's 2023 okay yeah the others were just like we don't have worri there okay so let's do that again with Mary's change I'll make a motion to approve second by Mr Lutz all in favor I extensions to gos moving right along okay so we actually have a non-agenda item this evening uh former environmental commission chairman Mr Fred Brody has a presentation tonight and Ben Harvey is also joining him and Fred will introduce uh Mr parvey and we are talking about the community energy plan tonight so Fred I uh toss it over to you and if you guys can just speak up just a little the the speakers are they we can hear you but annunciate okay how is that that's good that's okay all right well thank you everyone I appreciate this opportunity uh I did reach out uh earlier to the township because uh I think you you may be aware of the community energy plan grants that have become available from uh the BPU and Junction with sustainable Jersey and uh for towns like ocean uh you qualify for uh a $10,000 uh Grant to to to produce an energy plan um once that plan is is is approved and adopted That Could set you up for an implementation grant that could be up to $250,000 or even more depending on on the on the project but I wanted to introduce Ben parvey uh Ben is the CEO of Blue Sky Power and I've been working with Ben for quite a while now uh on these grants we've done Ben has done a lot of work uh with a lot of different towns around the state and we're doing some with some towns uh locally and uh we thought this would be would be a good opportunity Ben can explain what these grants are about and what we could possibly do uh for the township so uh I'll turn it over to Ben but Ben I just got to tell you the guy the guy in the foreground with the with the blue shirt on and the hat you gotta watch him I've seen that guy before is that is that the good he's the tough guy so watch out GL I made a good impression on you all right thank you guys really appreciate this opportunity Ben please all right thanks red uh and uh you know as former County uh County Environmental commissioner um chair of the County Environmental commission I you know I I don't envy you guys at all I spent a lot of years uh planning different Earth Day events and electric vehicle demonstrations and uh you know working on our our sustainability plans and uh it's hard work and to move slowly but it's worth it and over the years we end up making a lot of progress so you know I'm grateful for the the efforts you guys are are making the time you take to do it and uh I know sometimes it's grueling to stay with it and you try to get everyone involved but it's worth it so thank you guys for doing it because uh it's possible to make big things happen and uh it just takes time so I appreciate you know you guys being there tonight on a night instead of being with your families and and taking the time to listen to us so I won't keep you that long I just wanted to tell you about the community energy plan grants we're working a lot with sustainable Jersey and with municipalities across the state to uh do the two different different grants first is the community energy plan and then like Fred mentioned they then have an implementation plan Grant so you guys qualify for the $10,000 Grant so you get $110,000 free to to pay us to do the community energy plan and then um after you do the plan you then can pick some of the things you put in the plan and qualify for up to 250,000 and if there's still money left over up to $500,000 um for uh the implementation of the plan so for some of the projects in the plan So the plan is you know a a flow through of funds from the Board of Public Utilities um to encourage municipalities across the state to implement the different areas of the state's energy master plan that you know you all know about and has been in effect and you know edited through and amended through different administrations and uh you know I remember when they were working on it back in 2008 I was on some advisory boards and stuff related to the original energy master plan and here we are four or five iterations into it but the current Community energy plan Comm uh Community energy plans basically break down seven categories of um uh Energy Efficiency Transportation meaning electric vehicles and uh and efficiency of of Municipal fleets uh as well as uh community outreach both to energy in the residential sector and Energy Efficiency in the commercial sector and then there's also um education associated with that and prioritization for um making education and programs available for low to moderate income residents so the community energy plan is not at all labor intensive for you know the commission or for the township it really just allows us to spend some time we'll probably want to sit with some people in the administration and with you guys in like one meeting maybe two and go through your priorities that match up with the state with the guidelines for the community energy plan once you rank those or tell us your priorities High medium and low and then who the stakeholders are in the township whether that be the environmental commission uh you know the township administrator uh the DPW uh supervisor or or some other person we would then list those in the plan and there's basically a sustainable Jersey template that we would complete for for you we would then you know review that with you in the town and then the only other requirement after the plan has done is that you make opportunity for public input so at a at a a town council meeting you would you know have us come on work with you present the plan for 10 or 15 minutes and then the public has the opportunity to ask questions either in person or you know via remote um town hall meeting so or counselors meeting so that's the the long and short of the plan I can go into greater detail but I'm sure you have other stuff on the agenda so I can I can stop there and and answer some of the questions you might have but I just thought there's I just want to tell you the specifics of the plan for applying for the plan is very easy it's basically you know a two-page application it just has some contact information you know like Township administrator maybe a contact person from the commission you know we would be listed and then um a certification that you know you're submitting for the grant that notorized and a resolution by Town Council just saying yes you're applying to the Board of Public Utilities for the community energy plan so they've made it very easy to submit they're trying to get this money out the door they're trying to get folks like us to help Towns come up with the plan so it's a good thing for the environmental commission to hang their hat on and also to have some priorities that you guys can work on for public Outreach as well as realizing some efficiency in trans Transportation Township buildings and for renewable energy in the town and if if I may where the conversation started was when I reached out to Ed to say that uh Ben and blue sky uh were willing to to do this application at at no charge and um you know then it would you know we would uh we would take it from there I'm going to open it up to my Commissioners Mary have a question yes you you begin to answer my question that some of it would focus on Transportation but what other areas would we be looking at um I think Energy Efficiency is the phrase you use yes so um it would cover areas like you know on the transportation it would you you can prioritize it but it may be like I said there's a menu of items that we will sit with with you guys and in Township ship officials and you tell us you know purchase of an electric vehicle is a priority or it's not you know uh placement I I know i' I've driven by my my in-laws live right down the street in Long Branch I've seen the you know I know they charging stations at township uh facility you know you may put in Chargers you may do some new lighting and uh Energy Efficiency and building automation systems and motion sensors in Township buildings DPW um you may need like I said new HVAC uh it may be to put on solar I don't know if you have at the township building or Department of Public Works or water department whatever facilities you have um and then the other components are things like uh passing a solar friendly ordinance or passing an electric vehicle friendly ordinance so that you know installers of those systems know what the code is and what the requirements are to submit for the permits it may be to recommend that there are reduced permit fees for applying for solar on people's homes or businesses uh or reduced uh permit fees in a clear process for applying for charging stations and then for public Outreach they're very specific things um for providing you know utility Energy Efficiency programs state public uh State Energy Efficiency programs so public Outreach so it may be you know posting on the Township's website it or or holding uh meetings and sending out a flyer to let residents know about some of the programs that are available those don't have to be done now you would just include in the plan that maybe that's a medium priority and that you would do that you know Say by Q4 of 2024 so it's really the plan is the creation of the prioritization of those different types of items and correct me if I'm wrong Ben it's it's similar to the to the whole overall certification that sustainable Jersey does where you have like a laundry list of items then you kind of pick and choose yeah yeah but much easier so the certification program is very labor intensive this is a little bit different in that you don't have to you know do the greenhouse gas audits you don't have to sort of review you know years worth of bills and provide all this data it really is just a planning and a prioritization process you know as as you know from working with us on Kate May Point Fred um you know it's you gather feedback from the municipality and then you rank those sort of high medium low priorities who the stakeholders are and what duration you may want to select some of those priorities very much a planning process sorry you have another question Mary did you have another question oh I'm sorry I'm scratch my nextor no thank you that was a very thorough answer so uh to Jack our Green Team liaison do you have any questions about this process um I mean obviously we' we've implemented some of those sustainable Jersey items already um but my question was more of the public transportation for transportation section Does it include anything regarding public transportation because I think that an area in town that we lack and need to develop more um things like buses or bike Lanes or or things like that yeah so there certainly is in the transportation section prioritization of of activities that encourage public transportation and you know using bike lanes and things like that so you can put in those that those are priorities for the town yeah I said it's it's a long long list and and you can select those things that are priorities and and you know in the next round of implementation you can then get some funds to implement some of those so how robust are these plans in terms of of page length are we talking like a a five page thing are we talking a 100 page C like what is kind of the the size and scope of these yeah the the end product is usually you know about a a 20 to 30 page document is that does that sound right Fred was that how long are last one was yes 25 30 pages I think you know by the time we go through I mean some of the priority areas you can say hey this isn't a priority for us I mean some towns have said hey the you know the EV know and Transportation Route isn't really a priority for us we're going to stick to Renewables and Energy Efficiency and public Outreach so you you don't have to do all the stuff they tell you to it really is you rank what your priorities are but you're giving acknowledgement that you know we know there are priorities and we're going to pick some of them okay uh question so there are these seven areas if you were to come and discuss them I think if we could find out what those seven areas are beforehand and discuss it among ourselves and set priorities it would be much more efficient process yeah definitely so once you that would be effective to do you know once you apply for the right now we just want to get your application in so like there's when you submit the application there's no there's no prioritization necessary they just give you the grant when you say hey we want the grant so once you receive the grant then you know that's when it would be good for you to sit together and do the prioritization of the seven areas and remind me what's the deadline for the Grant application May 24th okay so uh what do we think is this something that we want to pursue a little further my point of view absolutely reason not okay all right free money and we have expert advice is this is this something the town should already have heard about through Le of municipalities and stuff like that yeah I there was a there was a program at the league where sustainable Jersey mentioned it you know with their other programs and certifications Etc um you know there was a session whether folks from the town went to that session or not you know I don't know there definitely emails that have gone yeah I had yeah I how this started was I reached out to Dave Brown and I just said hey have you have you applied for this for this grant yet and he just replied no and said well you know I'm working with a company and we would we would offer that at no cost to apply for that Grant he said talk to the environmental commission so that was when I called Ed so yeah so Dave knew about it right away he didn't he didn't say what you know what's that but uh yeah again you know people uh environmental commissions what have you the towns that that are familiar with sustainable Jersey they've been pushing this these things really started I would say two two or maybe even three three years ago right the first Grand the third round yeah yeah this is the third third round already and um yeah I mean it's just taken a long time for it to gain traction but but it has and the the the overburdened communities as they classify them they could get 25,000 for a uh for a grant but Ocean Township is not in that category of over burden communities the way they see it uh so that's why the maximum is is is 10,000 for this plan where does the BPU play in all of this it's their program so sustainable Jersey is administering it on behalf of the Board of Public Utilities so it's a BPU funded program and it's a BPU program but sustainable Jersey is like their administrator for it yeah ultimately Ben you're going to have to get paid somehow um how does this work yeah I yeah Ken Ken's gonna write a check um Ken's not Ken's not smiling about that okay so um no the uh yeah we get paid from the $10,000 Grant um you know by the township town you know Township would essentially hire us uh to be their energy consultant for this purpose and um we would we would invoice them they can either bid out for us to do it it's below the bid threshold so they don't have to but if they do want to you know issue an RP for us to do it the there's a form RP that sustainable Jersey created that we can provide uh or they can just engage us to do it because it's well below the bid threshold all right so do we all feel that this is something that we're interested in doing so here is here's my only hangup on this this this agenda item was not noticed tonight so I feel a little weird about taking a formal vote on something that we didn't notice in order to take this next step but what I would feel comfortable doing is taking a vote to recommend this that we follow up with the town manager and encourage them to apply and if they want us to vote on it we can vote at our April meeting because we have plenty of time to do that I want to make sure we're cross ing all our te's and dotting all of our eyes um so I would make a motion that we have a make a recommendation to the manager and councel that this is something we want to pursue and get their approval um because they also have a role in this then I'm going to need to pass a resolution and then let them take it and if we need to have a more formal vote on it our April meeting we'll have it on our agenda noticed and and then we can go from there so is everyone clear on what I'm suggesting the council's going to have to yes can't vote on that either we'll draft resol we'll draft the council resolution for you guys to you submit for the grant to give to council but but in talking to the manager we had to make sure that they understand this is going to lead to U possibly a substantial amount of money to to do something yes and I would absolutely be uh asking Mr Brody to help explain that in explicit detail when the time came that's right you just you just plug a into B you know and then it the little mouse starts turning and then you got energy all right so that's the motion that we're going to recommend this and if we need to take formal action we will at our next meeting do I have a second second second and by member m all in favor I opposed abstained count have too many meetings yeah I know and we're going to talk about that more in a minute but yeah so all right gentlemen if there is anything else I uh appreciate your time tonight and thanks for explaining all that thank you everybody everybody for the good questions and uh look forward to the opportunity to work with you and help you get your PL on all right have a great night good meeting thank guys thank you everybody Mary good to see you dear be well go to bed now fr with's work okay so like for example at Stockton College all the solar panels the parking and they finance them through our Authority my day job yeah yeah so knows he's talking Transportation may be more important than solar tower because we have Arcadia and they they bring in solar power to homes and um apartments in town for anyone who wants it so that's already in place this money we just duplicating something that we already have if we use it for that well he didn't get into it that much but I mean I know that there's a a lot of building decarbon decarbonization efforts that can be undertaken at township facilities because they are not energy efficient any of them so there's there that $250,000 can go a long way you know in terms of infrastructure it's not a lot of money but we we have a lot of projects that could be undertaken so you know and it doesn't hurt to come up with a plan and if nothing comes of it well then at least we have you know a plan to look at in the future when more money comes around so all right moving on because there's a whole lot of other things that I I want to cover tonight back to the actual agenda um EC website was updated today with contact information for D um there is a it's under new business but it's related to the website and I want to talk about both of them because I do want to talk more about the the flooding in town um so tinon Falls as we've talked at our last environmental commission meetings um Angelie has been really concerned about the odors coming from the reclamation center tin has established their own separate Committee just to focus on the reclamation center so it's not their environment Reclamation I believe there's n member there's DPW members there's a whole bunch of different reps from town I have been discussing with the mayor and with the town manager about having an official liaison from our environmental commission to participate in those meetings um we're still negotiating it with them but as part of that tinon falls has on their website created not only an easy way to how to on reporting the smells but they have generated their own reporting form that is not D it's not the county health department they have a much more in-depth one that includes time location smell everything and it's not necessarily limited just the tin and Falls um I mean they're using it for their own purposes but you can go on to the website so I am in the trying to figure out if it makes a sense for us to Simply link to Tin and falls's Reporting stuff because why reinvent the wheel or if it makes more sense for us to create our own uh recording here in town so that the mayor and Council have a better idea of what it is but if we have a Lason and we are sharing all that information freely then we can just link that so that's what's going on with our website and with the reclamation center stuff stay tuned I'm hoping that by the time we meet next time someone will be appointed and that'll be a mayor and counsel appointment not us um I'm hoping it'll be one of us but we want to have that so that's in the works um the tree ordinance and the tree audit Ken and Norm you guys had exciting meetings do you wantan to want to fill in the rest of the class on what's going on well the treat Bo okay turns out we we took a count we had people going around and counted how many trees we might be have rest was way down another thing I missed was we we didn't count a few number trees because they were counting vacant sites they call them sites they down the street there's no trees here that kind we we pay them for so many you know it's but then we got a few more by dumping a couple other things but we do have to get some more uh stuff okay done for example except for the only things on the west side of 35 they got done for the school and parks of things okay east side of 35 is know we still have other things to do here too but that was where most of more now you can actually go on to we're going to put something we haven't done it yet I we we got a three year and we pay for three more years of the tool they have called treey okay and it has it basically has a map but you know when people who just look at it without having to being really log in they just go to the site they'll be able to see certain things you know and they'll be able to tell what kind of tree it is but they won't be able to see the data for example about what how big it is and what shape it's in and all this other stuff and there's a whole bunch of other stuff that you can do on that site you know we had some training on the site which uh at some point we can share with other people give access to you know and and go from there okay so for example very now the shatri Commissioners all have been given a username and then and password which they change their own password so get in and then they can see the rest of the data that okay so talk to me we can work all that sort of Stu then after that there's a c there's another step up that I would have to authorize or someone was this type of authority would have to then give them the ability to change data so on so when we take take a tree down for example we want to go stuff like that so that stuff is good but we still got have to get more stuff done however now we'll switch to tree ordinances okay so it turns out that uh the Tre Orin actually let me back up so part that this whole leads into this there's a thing called the community forestry management plan you have to have a management plan you have to have uh people who are core trained and you have to have an annual report to be urban community forestry accredited which gives you s protections he gives you Indemnity if a tree falls from so the town can't get sued that is the very large carrot it's a good thing but but it doesn't mean negligence okay so now now one of the things that we didn't talk about in this meeting but we we you know if you you should read if you want to re look entertained look at the shade tree Commission ordinance there's two right there's two three ordinance people at home and build development but the Sher commission says house it done okay so I'll tell you what it says in there this is the Shader commission can come up to your house yes you Mr and plant the tree on the town's property right in front of your house and send you the bill that's what it says With It also says that when there's a tree in front of your house that is bad shape and has to come down nowadays we tell you to take it down okay but in reality what it says is the town's supposed to take it down and then build you for it that's what the ordinance actually says so I remember those phone calls on top of that on top of that the shat Tre commission feels though that the people who have trees on Town property in front of their house okay they're luy enough to have a tree maybe but they're un like enough to have a tree maybe okay and the towns they're really the town's trees the town should be responsible for those trees for example let's say this a giant tree in front of someone's house it's got to come down it could cost them $5,000 okay if the town's if it's a Town's tree and they take it down that $5,000 get SPL spread across the whole town and everyone pays a buck well and not to get off subject here but I was listening to maybe a council meeting and they're talking about the shade tree fund which I think they were giving the impression that that's controlled by the shade tree commission and that was never mind understand which I could be totally wrong about it it's not but but I think that's a that's a reasonable use of that those funds right Brown considers it you know I had I had a meeting for an hour with Dave last week and uh talking about things like many things like we should change so Patty konheim actually rewrote the ordinance so that we would own the trees instead of people at the take okay so that which I think is a good thing okay and we talked about all kind of things that the think of used for you know like in recent years it's gone down it's gone down a lot because they have been taking down trees on town but not necessarily in front of people's houses someone call and says you know I'm next to your a lot that you own and this tree is going to take my house out okay take the tree out stuff like that all those things pruning there's a big thing going on now I bill Brooks gave me an inland to it now we had one tree parting program we planted over 100 trees on Al for in some of the side streets between the sidewalk and okay well those trees have become a hazard to navigation we what we did not have and I've talked about it numerous times we've never done anything it we do not have a program to maintain our trees you know you get cus by watching anything I saw a program one time and this guy had a pict there's a tree picture a tree it's maybe a 12 to 18 foot tree right the guy says see that tree with all those branches on it none of those branches will be on the tree when it's mature it's being limed up so that it's up high enough that these things don't happen so the tree they show was nothing compared to the trees that we planted right they're a nightmare Public Public Works people the school buses and I think someone might have had damage to a vehicle I think whatever it is that I heard but the point is we don't have a program like that that's what that kind of money should be us but the purpose of the money though any of the money that got put into the chry fund itself really was only only to plant trees was that's the only reason we collected trees from people they weren't planting the trees they're supposed to plant on their Community Development type stuff that so good that's actually a really good point because that's what I really want to get to is you also had a conversation about enforcement of the ordinance in the fees that are being paid yes well the fees the fees there's certain things the fees used to be $350 but so long that no one ever planted a tree because was it was what a deal this was okay but we've also had people people unfortunately Mr Lut was a witness to this who took down trees you know that they shouldn't have taken down when they went to court okay there was a fine right because it said in a thing to be a fine but as it turns out because we didn't at the same time tell him he although something may happen we'll see how it works out in the long run but that we didn't say by the way if you had taken those trees down you would have had to pay $10,000 for that so instead the guy got finded less than 10,000 what the numbers are right because that was the maximum that town can find somebody meanwhile he he he he basically if this word gets out everybody cutting down all their trees because they it's a a cost effective prop proposition right so we had a lot of discussion you know all those kind of things so we'll see what happens meantime this based on the um Watershed business you know and the state ordinance is supposed to be related to that they've had these did you you were these programs that they on the ordinance which ones the on that we there was one I saw the other day did you see don't know what you're talking about I can talk about that well anyway the point is that program is also there the thing going on about the the Tre ordinances and so and so forth you know as it turns out I believe that from what B Brooks has found out because there's a person at in the every County that's responsible for this ms4 stuff what you have to do with your ordinance you know he he thinks that our ordinance is probably okay anden even have to be Consolidated necessarily they do because Jack and I ran into this at our last planning board meeting they absolutely do more so than I ever thought before but go on we'll have to see okay either the case though it's got be now the Shater commission itself ordinates I don't think is really related to the tree ERS that they're talking about that's that's what's the sh commission you know who is it how many people know it you know it's really the things the powers that we have are really not related to what the you know the people who have trees do things with trees in my opinion I don't think the sh true commission ordinance would if you weave that into the other ordinance I think it's just getting to be way pastation means you got go through that ordinance every time you want to do something different for example say someone to give us the power the plant trees on on private property okay yeah nor we're gonna let Ken talk for a while I can bre so the the state has come up with a model tree ordinance and it's actually called um tree removal replacement ordinance they expect trees to be replaced and to be removed which is sort of like our ordinance so um as I as I mentioned before I'm I haven't started yet but I'm going to take the model ordinance our ordinance for homeowners and the construction ordinance and try to put it all together so we come up with an ordinance that conforms to the state one but combines all our things into one in the meantime that and and this the state we heard was going to change their model ordinance I checked today they haven't um and the due date for uh performance is the end of May that was like the first of May or maybe it's first of May yeah so I I suggest the two-prong effort I don't think we're going to have our ordinance any revised ordinance Changed by then and approved but I think we could send our ordinance in and have it approved by the state because it generally conforms and that's allowed as well and that gives us some breathing room to to get it done right sure so so now let me tell you what happened in our last planning board meeting as an applicant came in and Norm it was your report that I read into the record Jack do you remember where it was the the application we heard last the only application we heard last plan board meeting oh where they removed all the few trees where there was a question of whether or not they removed any trees yes they remove a tree that they not it was well Norms report said that there were trees Miss say they said there are no trees here our professionals it was Schrodinger's tree some the trees may or may not be existing at any point in time we did not know yes no it was a lot line yeah yeah it was a l here here's the odd here's the odd thing okay I didn't see any they paid Z Panic to do a report yes we read the before gold report yes right like I said shinger trees they are there and they are not there all at the same time so we left it that they are going back out to look at the trees again but in as much as that is whatever it is the real issue was they and once again could not figure out which ordinance applied to them because had they taken the trees out as part of the development it would have been the development ordinance but had they taken the trees out before they came to us because again all of this this whole application was they started an application and then they realized that they were running a foul of town ordinances and apparently of their own bition came for the lot line adjustment to make sure that they were conforming and once they then brought it in that's when everything changed so the question was they didn't even get a building permit no they got a building permit but they it wasn't it wasn't a site plan application for us but they tore down a whole house and and so the the building permit was under the current zoning MH whatever so they have to conform with their Z with the whatever that zone is Right a lot line adjustment is so they could add I think they want to add a pool or something in the back and they need to adjust the lot line so that they form with the setbacks and the impervious coverage all that so the question is did they remove the if they remove the trees as part of the construction process and it falls under one section the ordinance they remove the trees as part of the lot line adjustment falls under entirely different right so the the discussion we were having though is everything is now 6 in diameter at breast height although apparently according to our professionals on the board for the for the construction ordinance it's not 6 in diameter of breast height it was 6 inch diameter at what did he say it wasn't breast height it was andet know it was like root crester something in something like above the root Crown like no it's like 12 in above the root Crown yeah it was like at like ground level right so I don't we need to sync these up might I think might a tree needs to be a tree everywhere in town for every purpose we do not need different definitions of trees we should have one definition of a tree and one set of cost for removal of the tree so we always talked about this is where we are we are coming to the the culmination of all of this we are going to have to conform with the EP we can send our ordinance in to make sure that conforms and when we do that we have to have one Ordinance one definition of a trade because anyway Mary when we send our ordinance in can we add a clause going back to if you cut a tree down without a permit and you go to court you just pay the Fone you don't pay the well if I don't pay my taxes I can't go to court and pay the fund I still have to pay my taxes it's so how do you want to describe that without a permit I should still have to when I go to court pay the price I would have been charged for cutting down the tree plus the fine for not doing it with the permit but I think that's that the town can already do if I'm understanding it we just that's so the prosecutor made a mistake and didn't and got an agreement from the person who cut the trees down and didn't include that the prosecutor didn't talk to anybody who cared about trees he only talk to the people who cared to cut them down yeah yeah so bring it to at least to the town's attention that this is happening right well they did that can nor met with the town manager to have this discussion so that they can have a conversation with the prosecutor to make sure that the prosecutor understands not only the letter of the law but the intent of the law so that apologize the reason I I couldn't do everything was saying so I only knew sorry we had a meeting last week yeah all right so there's there's still a whole lot more to to talk about so unless there's something urgent left on trees Bel so our storm water ordinance is still sitting in limbo however today's rain um was not great the site up at the top of the hill by Wegman and Italian American Association their silt fence failed again and mud was running down Valley road again um avakian was out there with the the code enforcement folks but this is now I believe it's the third time that their S Fencing has failed on that site exponential Factor yeah how many times it fail squared Cub well at this point the amount of sedimentation that has made its way into lollipop Pond and deal Lake I mean the damage the environmental damages there are are not insignificant that is to dredge those ponds to get rid of the pond and the lake to get rid of the sediment that has been deposited I mean you can look at the videos I took at the September there were rivers of mud and I'm not exaggerating there like come on can they be sued to clean out thees probably probably by by an grieved party the town did they not any town in the deal like Watershed could probably bring action yeah I mean it isn't the first time this is right this is this is right yeah did they not just just not stake it properly or I I don't know what happened the first time I know after the second time it was that September storm that was insane you know and there has to be that that rational factor of okay we can do everything right and then there are some things we just can't protected about but after that but what happened was they stored the excess dirt on the lowest part of the site on a hill mhm and I mean anybody could have for seen this MH so it's in it's in in a sense their fault for Designing it that way yep so that is one there was another incident on I think it was North edir there was another one do you remember we talked about this there was an incident where the planning board approved a subdivision pending a tree replacement plan plan and we never memorialized it they went out without any of the tree replacement plans cut down all of the trees the town stepped in and put a stop action um but by that point they had denuded the entire lot but they taken out the house the existing structure and the trees um and now it has been sitting vacant for months and they have not maintained the silk fencing for months and now all of the silk fencing and sediment controls are gone is apparently the former basement or the basement whole of the former house is now filling with water and not draining because it's it's a former basement like it I don't know what they were thinking so there's a number of storm water related issues in town oh yeah and d35 storm water system is not fixed yet although we got a permit uh application to D to fix one of the drainage basins there the one that's in the residential neighborhood so they are slowly maturely fixing it but yeah so all that ms4 permit stuff again to vacate anybody from the uh the the senior citizen house right onook how do we how do you get someone to do this with ality right how do you get do you have to soo them there needs wait till it happens 10 times and then we so there is more enforcement happening there's been a slow buildup of enforcement actions um my understanding is that as of January the number of enforcement actions is increasing exponentially and the uh I'm trying to think the the patience level of the township has decreased dramatically as well so these things are being dealt with swiftly and more severely the first to change the rules don't give everyone three strikes but but that's that's that's just it it's not about changing the rules it was never about changing the rules it's about enforcing the existing rules we have good ordinances it's that's yeah so that's moving along uh but it also and I don't want to forget you Mary with Brookside because I know that you had sent some emails this week but just to wrap it up the impervious ordinance the perious cover ordinance passed so all the impervious cover limits dropped I don't have the final version pass but what did they go down toor remember it was like 60% the buildable of the buildable lot area no of the gross lot area I buildable lot didn't mean anything anymore yeah I I'll have to double check but the ordinance got passed all the impervious cover because we had some that were like 90% And they're all it was 90% of the buildable lot now 60% of the gr yeah which is still lower right but we're allowing a greater floor area ratio that was the trade-off right we we allowed we allowed for bigger houses but less impervious cover so that was the trade that was made so yeah so Mary Brookside I said several emails to Greg when Margie was our Lea own she would I would send them to her she send them to him and he respond since it's me supposedly working directly with him he hasn't responded the list I heard it's not good enough for me to get copies of the original letter it has to be the original letter he was going to send them all to me he just needed my address I've sent it to him twice I don't have a phone number I tried to get his phone number but he's not in the municipal listing no he's you have to go to avakian's website avakian is the name of the company that he works for okay well if anybody knows the number Mary I'll send it to you thank you Donna I'm going to call him but right now the whole thing is blocked because I can't go around and ask people to sign the letter yeah if I don't have it yeah that's it okay all right how was the pond in all the rain well the pond goes up and down but there's no I I haven't been walking all the r around the whole neighborhood my house is is flooding and that's all that really matters right that I haven't been walking in why am I defending against you um all right so uh plans what do we got Norm anything well I've got a sh that I haven't Tak a look at the English manor is going to do some kind of stuff it's mostly just a to the building itself okay footprint or something like that the car wash a BL swan doing something I hav got a chance to look at the plans and then it turns out they've been talking to the town they got a reved set of plans that I picked up NE Costco's going to do something I don't know some I I didn't look at him but I some when I was talking toire I don't know I'm saying I don't and uh and then on roller Road there some place I don't know where it is but just got you know was part of another plan I said just talk about and someone's going to knock down some kind of building 146 okay must be in the industrial I I would guess yeah so couldn't read something 144 something well anyway whatever might just be a sub okay um so one of the things that I would like to explore doing because I know that some of the other environmental commission has expressed interest in doing this is setting up a site plan review subcommittee the environmental commission to want assist you so you don't have to do it all by yourself um and also so we can get some of the other Commissioners involved in the process and learning it for it's it's better to do that way so we can't have more than Quorum so I'm thinking about setting up as a member a three- member committee so I want to talk more Julia is one of the ones who's really interested in participating in that so we will have that conversation more in depth next next month when Julie is back to join us well sure but I like this is democracy Norm I don't run it like the shade tray this is [Music] democracy and I've got these plans to look at yeah well we yeah we'll have those conversations but in terms of formal action establishing the subcommittee we'll we'll work on that for next official that's true yes okay usually Steve like to go out yeah okay good so we'll work on getting that set up formally um planning board update I think we covered it at our last planning board meeting we had one application and we also had the ordinances for marijuana and for the impervious cover and they were both compliant with the master plan so we kicked them back to council and I believe that they got published so I think they're enforced now um sustainable Jersey there's lots going on Jack what's going on well four a green yes the green team update green Fest planning is in full swing I have delegated the the the bulk of the planning and Logistics to the life of somebody who is at the [Music] St no comment he's recused and uh they you know I've been unable to give it the time and attention it deserves lately because work so he's taking a vault and run with it they are meeting weekly at the library say I think at 6 o' on Wednesday is if anyone wants to go and lend a hand please do they use the help I'll probably do there next week um so that's going um I think we are might ask for some financial assistance from the green team again yes and that is one of the things and it's unfortunate that Miss Terry's not here tonight um and I need to I've been playing phone tags with her all week um one things that we need to talk about is we need to establish fees um for vendors so that if we want to charge a fee we could um but that has to be done by ordinance into Norm's point the council is meeting I think twice this month once next and that's it for until M miday so if we're going to have Fe schedule established we need to get on that so should be based on the size of vendor yeah and and whether or not they're selling stuff if they're a nonprofit I mean there needs to be some output into it and I know that um the Green Team folks have been kicking the tires on that but we need to get something moving through the process um and I think there's a council meeting next week so we work on that do we have a council Aon now not that I've seen Miss Terry is our de facto Council leaon until she or someone else tells me otherwise um but you know again thanks to the the great work that uh Margie did for us we have very open lines of communication with all the council members and with the town manager these days so I'm not I'm not overly concerned it would be great to have one but I think we're we're okay for the moment I thought she was pretty she was into the meeting yeah absolutely yes and and like I said I've been playing tag with her all week she's involved she didn't want she's time it's a time to me sure yeah sure other than that I thought she was paying it and node Center yes right yeah which is what we need um the only other thing about the the greenfest Jack because I've been seeing this elsewhere and I got confused the 5K do you know anything about this the the 5K is sort of a separately organized but also concurrent event okay that is part of greenfest at like 7 a.m. or something okay being organized by this high schooler and her father um and we've been just going back and forth on some listic things but they're kind of taking the re on that okay and they're going to use the proceeds from the race to go into the open space fund if I'm understanding what I read correctly is that that's that's again I'm not maybe we you know what I think I will invite them to come to our next meeting and present and share what they are doing space you open space yes the on that our tax dollars go into yeah yes um all right so just making sure that I cover everything else on the list lollipop Pond we have not had a committee meeting in a while but um it's getting geared back up we're probably going to do a cleanup um early spring um just to recap last we left it in the fall we did a very large cleanup got rid of a lot of brush we've been working with DPW to make sure the residents in the area aren't dumping into the lake anymore um and we started working on A New Path from Park Boulevard down to the trails to connect some of the parts that have been overgrown um it's a miracle that no one got poison ivy I don't know how but it's it's moving along did they ever reopen that bridge no I was going to say any progress but there's now desire trails that everyone's just going around it it's still in use so project I mean you know the town the town is doing what it needs to do to limit liability and I understand that and uh you know people are going to walk where people are going to walk I don't I don't know what to tell you um all right let me make sure that I covered everything else on here why you looking I just have a couple number one um we're g to get trees again free trees we're going to give them out on the 20 Sunday the 21st which is the week before uh Arbor Day but Passover starts the next day it's a whole complication thing it start that night excuse me isn't it start Sunday night Monday so anyway so we'll be giving a m at from at the senior center okay okay so two third grader trees which P free from the safe if they can that this year already spoken to Dave talk about the stre fund you know so we'll probably get some tree savings from there a nursery in South Jersey I think get from the state so anyway just so you know all right anyone else have anything else for the good of the order right hearing none do I have a motion to adjourn first by Mr L second I'm Mary beer all right all in favor I thank you everyone that