all right let's get this show on the road we have guests tonight oh yes we have a lot to [Music] do huh um February yeah February and March okay the February minutes if we can all take our seats sir distribution business sir all right let's get started we'll call this meeting to order uh we'll do a roll call member Colton here member Johnson here member godette here member Lutz is not here member Brandon is not here member m here and our alternate members neither of whom will be attending this evening we do have one two three four five of us so we have for statement of compliance with the open public meeting law the notice requirements of the open public meeting law for this meeting have been satisfied copy of the annual notice was sent to the asway park press and the coaster hosted in town hall and filed in the office of the Township Clerk on June 30th 2023 um we have some quick housekeeping items um but we have a presentation this evening so let's get through them uh quickly we have minutes for approval February and March of 2024 does anyone have comments edits suggestions on either set of minutes going once going twice someone want to make a motion to approve the minutes either or both we're going to move them both at once unless someone has objections um I move to approve February I was absent on March okay I okay so moving March or I'm sorry moving February all in favor I opposed one obained so Fe and now we're on to March um I'll make a motion to approve the March minutes I'll second all in favor I opposed and an exstension I'm I didn't get chance to I'm reading okay well Norm is also abstaining so two extensions okay all right so moving into our presentation for the evening we have an zasi is that right did I get it right perfect you did it a you did a great job people don't usually get it right yes fantastic great all right and well welcome to uh the Ocean Township environmental commission we're pretty uh informal here so if you want to introduce yourself your group and and tell us what you do we're we're here to learn about adopter drain fantastic would um I be able to share my screen at all um it says I need to ask the organizer to make me a presenter yes our organizer is hiding in the corner she's off screen you can't see her but she's here thanks great well I'll introduce myself while that oh there it kind um yeah so I'm aneli I'm the director of the adopted rain program I'm in um Minneapolis Minnesota my office is technically in St Paul Minnesota but anyway um quite far away but we run an adopted drain program throughout the country um and I was asked to come talk about what we do I really appreciate your time um I will do a quick presentation um let me get that up there and uh feel free I also like to um do things pretty informally so please feel free to um all right sorry it's giving me all these messages um feel free to ask any questions along the way I'll try to keep this relatively going quickly but I'm happy to stop at any point um to go into more detail but really quickly who we are we're at the center for Global Environmental Education um at Hamlin University in Minnesota um the center does a lot of different things but one of the things that we do is community outreach and we work with a group called The Watershed Partners which are cities and counties and Watershed organizations in the Twin Cities metro area in Minnesota um and that group really was looking at doing Outreach around storm water and runoff education and Outreach to the public and what they were looking for though was a program that would not just raise awareness and education but also give people concrete action as well as provide measurable outcomes so that we can measure the impact of of our program and so that's where adopter drain came from started uh in 2014 so we're about to hit our 10y year anniversary we have since moved to a whole lot of different communities around the country we're working with five communities in New Jersey already um a number of them are environmental commissions just like you um and we're in conversations with a bunch of others as well so um again thanks for having me um again adopt a storm drain is a pretty straightforward prr program it's a storm drain stewardship program where we ask people to take care of the storm drain near them um keep leaves and trash and other things out of it so that we're also keeping it out of the water uh but what we did was we wanted when we implemented it we did it in um using Behavior change research and we wanted to implement something like I said that was provided measurable information and data so not just um not just asking people to clean but then also being able to track that information and let you see that so um benefits of joining our program since we've been doing this for a long time and we've do been doing it with programs everywhere from small 1,000 population cities to um Seattle is our biggest we have a lot of experience running the program on the back end um so we do all of the implementation we do all the operational work we do all of the maintenance we keep all the servers running keep all the security going we provide customer support not just for you but for the participants so if a participant forgot their password can't figure out how to use the system we will answer their questions we'll answer your questions you have access to all of the data um real-time data whenever you need it but we also will compile an annual report that makes that data kind of easy to see easy to digest and understand um it was designed to meet ms4 so the storm water uh reporting needs for cities like I said we're based on Behavior change research we have um spent a lot of time making a really intuitive and mobile friendly interface for participants which we think is a really big part of why it's successful uh and then we have a lot of marketing and Outreach materials that are customizable so we can put your logo on it we can put names of your local water bodies um and other things on there to make it a little bit more uh specific to your community um so like I said we're Beyond just like storm drain marking a lot of people do storm drain stenciling and marking which is great to let people know that the storm drains lead to the water but it um most research shows that just raising awareness doesn't um doesn't necessarily change people's behaviors and then sometimes it can be a barrier because they feel like problems are so big they don't know where to start so best practice is to give people a really clear positive action to take have them make a commitment to do that make that commitment visible um that does a couple of different things it helps people see themselves as someone that cares about the environment and wants to take action it also raises um social norms around them and let their neighbors know that that they want to do that but also that it's the sort of thing this community does um and it holds them accountable to to that commitment that they made and then we like to measure our engagement be able to give that information to you but really then report that success and let people see that they're actually part of a successful program and that they're making a difference so this is our um adopted drain interface on the website um you would click the adopted drain button uh it pulls up a map and that map will Center itself on wherever the person is so this screenshot is taken from my house in Minneapolis but if you were in Ocean Township in New Jersey it would Center on that area if you have the um coordinates of storm drains We'll add it to the map uh and that's really nice because people can see where storm drains are pick one nearest them but if you don't have that we do have the functionality where people can click a button and add the storm drain to the map that they want to take care of and that's a screenshot of what that looks like basically you say I'm going to adopt a drain and then you move that map to put that pin where the storm drain is and it's a Google map so you can also use satellite to to see it more clearly um and then that drain is in the system you have data and you have access to that once somebody adopts a drain they set up an account in the system um and that account lets them do a couple of different things first they get to name the drain which people really enjoy being able to give their drain a name um we see a lot of really fun names coming through here uh so they can also rename their drain if they didn't feel like they were creative enough at the first time um they can unadopt their drain we want people to know we know circumstances change people move they might not be able to take care of the drain anymore they an unadopted at any time that opens it back up for someone else to take um responsibility and stewardship for it but the main thing we like to do is this um track impact button uh in the middle here uh so when people sign up they commit to reporting uh the debris that they've removed to the drains um and they choose how often they'd like to be reminded via email so they can be reminded monthly they can be reminded quarterly they could be reminded weekly if they wanted and we'll send those emails um at Whatever frequency they want and that brings them to this screen where they just we try to um kind of hit that balance between useful information for the city and for the um whichever jurisdiction is doing this but also not making it overwhelming for the users who are doing the work so we ask them to say what are the two types of debris that were really the most of their cleaning out um choose those two say how much they removed and they can do that either gallons or pounds and then we convert on the back end so everything is in pounds uh and then just say how long it took so filling out that form is very quick and very easy we tell people don't worry about being exact but just give us a quick estimate and then we also as part of the program um we will send out um postcard reminders at the end of the year to anyone who hasn't reported in the past year and that is the post postcard looks just like this form people can fill it out on paper drop it back in the mail it's postage paid and then we get that postcard and we will add their cleaning data to our system on the back end so we have two different ways for people to report trying to really make it as easy as possible because that data is gold to know exactly what's out there what's being removed so you can report and say hey we've had hundreds of pounds of debris removed by our volunteers this year so that was the front end on the back end again you would have administrative access to all of your data um and that's real-time data you can pull it up whenever you like um or we're happy to pull information for you and send it to you if you'd prefer to do that um and that information includes all of the user participants that sign up and that a lot of cities use because they know that people who have signed up are interested in litter removal and are interested in water protection and they can be great people as you bring out um water protection programs um so we have a lot of trouble with salt from um salting when there's ice and so a lot of cities will in the winter then reach out to the people that who have adopted a drain and say hey we've got um we've got grit instead of salt that we'd like you to start using because that's going to reduce the amount of chloride that's going into our water and so again you get the email addresses of everyone who's signed up you get uh a list of every drain that's been adopted as well as every cleaning that's been reported um and then I don't know if you can see on the screen here but every drain that uh is in the system every cleaning that's on a drain we not only keep uh information about kind of the the gis coordinates of where that drain is but we can put in boundary information about watersheds and subwatersheds so if you have a specific lake or a specific Beach or area that's really a high priority for you we can have that boundary in the system and then you can report specifically on the work that's doing there and it can really help you see how efforts that are um focused on one specific area how they're working out um so that and again well I'll show you um we have that backend data but we also send you an annual report and that kind of pulls that backend data into a format that's easy to read and so that says over a year here's how much debris was removed and what type here's each month how many new people signed up how many drains they adopted how much debris was collected each month how much time people spent and then we do Break It Out by Watershed and subwatershed so this is um in St Louis Park but you know you can say oh Cedar Lake is one of our high priority Lakes we've been really focusing we can see that that had a high number of drains adopted this year another part of our program is then like I was saying we want to make the commitment visible to to people and so we have uh yard signs that we customize to highlight water bodies um from your community and so we've got a couple of examples here uh the photo is from my yard I'm across the street from Diamond Lake that's where my drains drain to again because we have the Watershed and subwatershed um data we can make different signs we make multiple signs for the same city because some PE um help people see and connect that their storm drains are going to a specific body of water or we can say um you know like the Puget Sound out in Seattle that's really what everyone resonates for with and so that's what the sign is that they get um and that's up to you that's part of the program that we can work with you to make signs we have uh kind of generic backgrounds I don't even think they're that generic but a river a creek and a lake um backgrounds but then we can also work with you to make make a customized background if you wanted one that really felt like your area and again we will send out that sign to the participants um along with the signs they all get an email and that email um besides just kind of introducing people to the program and how it works will have your logo and a link to your website um whichever website you want them to link to when we send out those signs we also send a customized letter and this is your chance to put whatever information you want in that letter so this is an example of Seattle public um public utilities and they have a QR code because they have a program where people can sign up to get um tools for cleaning their storm drain but I've got another program um in southern Minnesota where they use that uh letter to tell people about their rain garden and their tree program and so it's a great way of getting more information out again to people that you know are interested in keeping things keeping the water clean and keeping the the storm drains clean we've got other materials too um so you get access to all of the materials that we've already put together um and you can use them for um at events you can use them to mail to people whatever you'd like so we've got uh utility bill inserts we've got door hangers uh the middle piece here is our welcome and Tip Sheet that also gets sent out to everyone in our welcome packet it talks about one the main um pollution types and you can choose what the main pollution types are that you want to highlight why it is that we want to keep them out of the drain so it provides that educational aspect but then we also talk about how to safely clean your storm drain so we're very clear wear gloves use a rake never ever remove the grate from your drain um separate the materials when you're when you're disposing of them um and again on on these we've got uh logos from different cities so that's part of what we can do to customize those uh materials so that people know that it's a a local program for you um we do have Spanish language materials uh we also have Somali and Mong and we can work with you if there were other um translated or other languages that you wanted to do Outreach in but those are part of our suite of Outreach materials already available to you um we can do social media support on Facebook and Instagram if you want either running a page for you or providing um posts for you most places do their own social media but um few of them have found that it's nice to have someone else just kind of running that uh social media so that's kind of the um overview of the program to get started in adop a drain um we need we want to set up the gis data in the system and so if you have that storm drain location data which I know not everybody has that but if you have the um coordinates of storm drains then we'll add that to the map we also want to put on the boundaries of your city your Watershed and your subwatershed um so that goes on our backend that also goes on our website um get your logo in there get the links to your um website and then set up whatever administrative accounts you need uh do training for you so you know how to use the system and then whatever graphic design you need need to do um yard signs custom welcome letters safety cards other Outreach materials we'll work with you to add your logo to that pricing wise um so we have a onetime setup fee that it's kind of a range here because it depends on how much um GIS data you have to convert as well as how much graphic design you want to do so the higher end is really for towns or cities that want to have their own graphic background to the signs and do some of the a lot more customization um annual fee is based on population so it's 8.8 cents per person um which would be about 22300 per year um the welcome packets we only invoice for the packets that we send out so we will order and have materials on hand um and then the packet itself is a sign and a stake a letter A welcome card the envelope Postage and handling which comes to $77.95 per packet so we don't have to do welcome packets um that's not something that every program does we think that it really helps engagement and really brings um communities that have the welcome packets tend to have more people adopting because people will see their neighbors doing it um but it is it is optional um and again we're only going to invoice for the packets we send out so usually we'll say let's plan on having materials for the first 50 people if we do that and we send them all out then we would come back and check with you to see if you wanted us to do more so you can give us a a top limit to how many you want to send out as well um and then like I said we do social media support at $55 an hour um other Consulting at $85 an hour those are completely optional but um nice to have so but again to bring it back um we're all about bringing Community together um helping people make those Behavior changes to start protecting their water um and really seeing that having people together making a huge difference so in 2023 we had about 150,000 pounds of debris collected through our program um and we expect this year is going to be considerably more than that so um continuing to grow and would love to work with you on that um and that is that is my program I happy to answer any questions um or I can go in and show you backend data or anything else you'd like to see but yeah I see a hand what do you do with the debris that's collected sorry M so the question was you got to yell for them to hear what do you do with the debris that you that is collected in this program um we ask people to dispose of it correctly so usually that means going into the trash occasionally there might be recyclables that could be recycled so we ask the people to dispose of it um correctly and then they would go online and tell us how much was removed um and so then we can report on the amount but it it should be disposed correctly we have some cities will will put out um collection bins occasionally um you know and they can send out at specific times but yeah just dispose of it so my question is um do you ever do this not by municipality but by Watershed because okay yep that's actually um so our system is set up that we can have counties watersheds or cities and we can have any combination of them so in fact if if there was a watershed and a city both supporting it both um logos would show up on the system when somebody adopts it um so yeah in in the Twin Cities especially actually in Minnesota we have a lot of watersheds that are doing this okay and how how small do you go in terms of like a watershed size if you were to support a small Watershed so most of our work is based on population okay um and we've worked with populations as low as like 1,200 okay um and yeah yeah so we have faith tidle bomb who's on from the um whale Pond Brook watershed Association this evening and her wed spans a few different municipalities so um and zal lake is a large one that that does as well um so I'm just asking for for them um yeah than you I didn't I didn't realize that but yeah yeah we work with watersheds a lot yeah we're we're despite ocean being our town name we don't actually have any Coastal Frontage but we are very close to the coast so we have three distinct watersheds within our municipality because they're all they're all streams and lakes that drain to the ocean so um yeah and so you could have you know if you wanted to one we would be able to get you that data broken down by Watershed um as part of the system we um you could if you wanted to have a different yard sign for each different Watershed to let people know I mean I think that's something that I've found is people don't often don't know um where there's you know where their Watershed is or how that works and it's a kind of a nice way of connecting them to it uh when you have those those signs but that's helpful to know yeah um and what other municipalities in New Jersey are you working with right now so Franklin Township Westfield Berkeley Heights Bradley Beach Maple Shade are the ones that are signed on and then we have a couple of others that were um kind of working through contract discussions on right now okay does does anybody else have any questions all right great well Ann thank you so much for taking the time to to present to us tonight it was really interesting and and fascinating we're always looking at ways to do a better job of managing our storm water and our storm waterer infrastructure in town um not just the town but the the citizens as well who are looking to get involved so we'll we will take this back to our our Council and town manager and and share what you shared with us if if you could share any slides or other materials um if you could send them to Donna who you're emailing with that would be fantastic and we'll pass them along sounds great yeah I will send my slides and I can send um some other things too I'm sorry did I cut someone off nope no this is Faith from the well palmbrook Watershed I would like to uh present that to our city council also I would love that could you um I don't know if I have your contact information um can I get that or can Faith yeah I can send you her infro tomorrow yeah that's great that's what I'd like awesome okay thank you thank you all right well thank you so much and uh uh I have to say that I don't know if you ever go there but Hell's Kitchen in Minneapolis I dream about raneros all the time so if you make it over there have some for me please I will absolutely do that I'm thrilled that you know of them all right have a great uh rest of your evening everybody thank you all right um well that was interesting yeah not cheap but interesting um yeah I you know what I just want to say one thing that software that she's using is just like the DAV tree software I don't know if you bought that for the city we we yes we do have that yeah yeah that would fit in right with it it's the same kind of soft or you know I they could probably attach or something I don't know anyway just a comment yeah I I'm you know faith I was really thinking about you and Don brockel as she was giving that presentation you know I know that our DPW has mapping of all the drainage and they do a they do a lot of the reporting and and management for the ms4 permit but those multi-city watersheds that are small and Regional like yours and the DL L commission it might be a really good program for them so we looking into a little bit more y thank you so like a shared service agreement to get maybe well da commission has their own budget they could they could just do it straight out so anyways all right let's uh move along with our agenda this evening um we're going to whip through the old business because I don't think we have many updates to EC website nothing um the tree ordinance Norm is there any updates on that or is it just still status quo well I'm haven't seen any major uh changes with our ordinance however I did talk Brooks has spoken he okay um but apparently as far as the state ordinance is concerned there's this I don't know what they call it the woman in Freehold who their administrator that includes us he shared our ordinances with her uhuh and her review was such that at this time she doesn't think we have to change anything in our ordinances okay and I think mainly that's because whether they should they're not perfect or not they've got a Thousand Towns who have bubus they don't even have bubus yeah they have nothing so we're we're ahead of the so we're right ahead at this time so it looks like we're we're in good shape as far as the state requirements that they're going to come back and sell us something that we wanted to change so so we're still our own people okay for now least from what build sounds good all right um storm water ordinance um the impervious cover changes have gone into effect so all new applications coming in to town for development have to meet the new coverage limits and if you'll remember they dropped the lot area coverage maximum considerably however they made two changes to it it is no longer a percentage of the buildable lot area it is just the lot area um so that was some trade-off and then the other piece of it was the um the floor eror ratio for some of the houses changed so you'll have less impervious coverage but you could theoretically have a slightly larger Residential Building on it so that was a no just the the floor area ratio is how much square footage yeah the square footage of the house in relation to the laot well if it does go higher wouldn't it have to be more impervious cover yes but it's all impervious cover so you could have a bigger house but a smaller driveway and not a pool in the yard and not a basketball court tennis court whatever else person would have to do the training one yes exactly right it's it's a give and take you you have a little more flexibility you want to have a bigger house which is something that we see a lot in town um that's fine but your trade-off there is that you get a smaller patio and not a giant looping driveway you get less other impervious coverage so um Brookside change I finally got through to a great bash blash blash if months of trying to call him and I said I sent you two emails did you know I don't know if you ever got them he said no I never did but finally one of my neighbors who's very interested in this Pond also called him and they're working together on getting those signatures fantastic all right well I hope that they get them because the question was asked last time what h i mean a lot of those houses are owned by absentee landlords and they may have no they may not even get the mail if it's going to that house those people may just thr away what happens then and that I can't answer I don't know what happens then getting Greg is takes me months so sometime by 2030 sometime by 2030 we'll have it all sorted out in the pond Dr I don't know if be alive in 203 it's right around the corner um all right great well thank you for that update I'm glad that you made some progress on it um the community energy plan the council moved it forward and uh Millennium strategies who is the town's uh gr writer um is submitting it um and so that is moving right along um and on to new business and unfortunately I actually want to hold this first item because we're we're a few members short tonight um we Mary I'm sorry but my own project hasn't been discussed and somebody asked me may I just tell you something that's happening sure the we were going to do a website or in our website we were going to have a post about a deer and I was working with the animal protection league and they were going to send me their blurs a benett came out that our Council was making a law and I called and asked mayor could I know what's going to be in the LA he say not until the LA comes out and I said well will you let me know when it it comes out and I haven't heard anything since we don't have a leas on anymore so are we going to get a leas on soon help we do have yeah Dave Fisher is are leaz on Dave Fisher yes okay I will maybe Donna you could email me his contact information thank you Donna and I'll try to get in touch with him thank you okay um IAL we talked about having liaison go to tit and Falls I had a long conversation with Dave Brown about how we can effectuate this and he said that after looking into it the EC we have the ability to just appoint alazon on our own we do not need his approval we do not need council's approval so we're going to do that um and Angelie has been the one who's been going to the meetings and discussing so I would like to nominate her but she's not here tonight to defend herself so uh we're going to hold that n yeah no uh uh yeah all well could we do this can we say pend in her acceptance we V and say that it's okay no it's yeah that's not that's not fair um so the next item is the greenfest budget we've been talking about this um greenfest has requested the greenfest planning committee has requested $500 to assist with their efforts this year so we've given money to them in the past for up to $500 so I would like to make a motion to once again give uh $500 to the greenfest planning committee Mary Nancy ER emailed me and then last night she spoke to me by phone and I suggested that she email you two because she's been working with you she had wanted to ask questions and add things to that 500 so and I guess we can't table it because it will be over in June there's she hasn't that's that's it it's $500 she well one of the questions was they have some of the vendors are paying this year yep are they allow can the greenfest committee use that money toward the green Fest in addition to the 500 that's not a question for us that is a question for the finance folks in town hall and I believe the answer is yes but that is not something DC can the idea is that this this is this is 500 and then the fees from this year's greenfest will then sustain the greenfest going forward next year okay and again I I'm not sure why she called me so she didn't you know now I said email these two because she had been working with the two of you I don't know why she called you okay yeah I mean they they're they're looking for the vendor fees which they amended the the 10wn ordinance to accept the vendor fees so that is taken care of they already the council already passed that and the other question was about the sponsorships and if they could take sponsorships and again that is that is a finance office question that is and we've been asking it's just they're sorting it out but above our our pay grade that we can't yeah not our job no that is the that is Town Hall's job I'd love to just say yes but I can't do that yeah um and it gets a little tasty I mean you know it is we are we are talking about public entities and public money and then there's the pay play laws and there's all sorts of other reporting require there's there's a whole lot it's not just as easy as you know slipping someone a $20 bill and being like go do a good job yeah yeah takes a little more effort I just wanted to let you know that that was a question that I yeah all right second Mo thank you second so let's do we it's money so we have to do a roll call vote so M Colton hi remember Johnson remember maybe remember gotad I also vote Yes unanimous all right Bo of adjustment uh where do what is happening with the Billboards well hold on we we'll get to that we have a couple other things first um future meeting dates Donna has very kindly put together a list of tentative 2024 and 2025 meeting dates however I would like to make a suggestion inance we have the shade tree chair here what do you think Norm about alternating our start times so that sometimes I'll go first and then you can go and then other times you can go first and then I can go like we're doing tonight well considering I seem to be stuck here all the time that be the best person to ask that answer the question but I think it would come personally I think would complicate life okay from a just a general confusion standpoint because the calendar gets out and then of course our meetings aren't even on the the calendar the printed calendar in yeah but they're on the website no I'm just saying I I just personally think it would be complicating one my here and I'll tell you why I'm suggesting this is because there are a number of people who would like to come to the environmental commission meetings but 8 o'clock is late for a start of a meeting they have small kids they have other responsibilities it is a little late and I appreciate that I I totally understand there's never a perfect time on any day any place that works for everyone but in order to see if we can get some more participation from other volunteers maybe starting earlier would work but if that is not something that and everyone seems to be shaking their heads in the negative here we can we can try other ways to do that it also might complicate life to some of the people who are coming later coming early would be a pro I can't speak a jacking and okay so that is a no but for the dates that are provided I'm not say it's a no I think we need more input or I'm the only here from the I know that's what I'm asking I don't know I forgot exactly maybe the shade tree commission meeting at 6:30 and the environmental commission at 7:30 I agree with you that 8 to 9 is late but on the other hand switching from one month to the other we trying to be crazy I know I would I would probably come at the wrong time a few times Donna what do you think as as the person who's going to have to give notice and and help schedule these and well 6:30 why not 6 is that too early 6: to 7 7 to 8 I mean for people who have commutes sixes I can't say you know I mean I think that some people need I'm sorry I'm saying some people may have trouble making early meetings I can't say you're not going to set a time that's going to be perfect for everybody right yeah and my question is do you have to clear it with Town Council with the manager for what changing the time yes now of this room and well I mean it's a scheduling matter for the room we don't need but also um I mean as far as putting it posted on the website that's just a computer thing yeah but it's you still have to notice the time and place in one person about moving it forward if we if the fish ever shows up for meeting it's maybe 6 is two ear for if we if he's going to be attending the Mee I would suppose the other possibility and I don't know what the scheduling is of the use of this SP is but you could do first Tuesdays or first week and third week and split the so shry is one and yeah I know I guess that's a bad idea I can hear that from here I thought about I thought about that Steve it was a thought that crossed my mind but then uh you know we used to have Workshop meetings for thec yes and they became logistically challenging to schedule and get people too so okay so how about this we we you guys vote on the dates and we you can discuss it going further in June I think that is a good proposal so everybody is on the same wavelength they know what's going on everybody's advised of the possible changes and they can give their input I just want to say that in Long Branch the green tea meets from 6:30 to 7:30 and the EC meets from 7:30 to 8:30 okay thanks send send out an email to everybody discussing your ideas outlining your idea and see what the general consensus is all right M and I do think to fix 30 better L 6 only because a lot of people work until 5 and they have to go home and fix up you maybe clean up after supper and so 6:00 would be really yeah I don't get I never get back to town until at least 6:15 so yeah so all right so for the dates we have dates for 2024 and 2025 um do I have a motion to accept the dates as proposed no good not no because October 3rd is R sh it's late this year yeah Hanukkah and then January 2nd is actually not it's the eth day of Hanukah which doesn't matter that much but but I don't remember Hanukah being in January yeah either I remember I remember I remember sharting on Christmas is in January the last day it's eight days the eth day is January 2nd actually is it or or came up in my thing now whether that was ER not well we have one more meeting before this has to be has to go to well can we change these dates sure matter of fact matter of fact October that's octob so that's October 3rd now October October 10th it turns out is is not the even before yonip po yon PO is the you know like when is actually is actually the 11th you know I'm saying so October 10th is not out of question the October meeting but the next night is we we don't have to have well what I'm saying is the October 10th could be used it's it's the night we want just push it a week or do we want to scrap the Mee let's just scrap them out no meeting in October yeah we'll October October's that's a good month to have meetings I mean how is it different than September other months November what makes this night different no no because it's this this this year this you know the school year just started something I'm just saying it's so things are more happening can we have a meeting that's not on the Thursday and if they're planting any if we're trying to do planting plan anything for like planting programs and stuff like that that's the time to do it okay so give me a date in October well what I'm saying is so just Jack October 10th that's fine October 10th should be fine October 10th and then we have to change January no January is okay January will be okay I'm just Pres any information but is there other any everything else came up relatively clean okay if we need to move a date we need to move a date so with October 3 change to October 10th we have a motion to accept the dates for our next two years I will second second moveed by Steve second by Jack all in favor I opposed abstained commission will have to approve those next week next month okay but we can maybe uh don we reminder we'll send something to everyone saying this is what we concluded so that it'll be very you know Pro straight forward you know next week ass we get a all right um Plan reviews okay well Steve mentioned you know it turns out there were those two billboard things right uhhuh and it's actually a third one now same people this one they want to put on the property that was the Burger King on Sunset and Delta Dental the Del Dental yeah how the heck you do that well the thing doesn't take much space on the ground it's just a pole yeah well it's a monopole that come yeah I know but they have a huge I'm just saying that's what that's what the plan is okay now I also was trying to figure out that the telephone polls on 35 are humous right they've got they're really tall and then they still have this high tension line tree yeah up there okay so I finally after a lot of trying to I got a hold of a guy from jcpnl I spoke to this last week I told all those things and I think he said that the basic poll itself is like 60 I says like 67 or 8 ft it goes into the ground like about 8 ft you know so therefore it's it's tight above ground it's about 50 foot he said it's about 60 it's about 59 60 ft above ground and that includes the tree okay which which if it's only that tall it's I think the there's like a 10% plus 2 feet of the Po's length has to go Bel ground so whatever the pole length is yeah okay so let me ask just just just because I'm lost is this because we don't want to put Billboards under the high tension Lines no okay so why are we talking about this because I want to show how high these things are going to be okay compared to telephone pH you think oh so it's above the it's over here well the top of it is going to be the top of these things is going to be up about where those high tension lines are right okay so how is JCP now letting them build them in their right away it's not what is they right away I mean they have need to put the the wires in that's being it doesn't go where the wires are the wires the wires are on the wires are within the Route 35 RightWay that is the property and the things are on the property okay okay and they have on their plant which I sent the guy and we talked about a little bit they even have one of them I couldn't quite comprehend what was written they actually have on the plants the distance from the property line the distance from the hension lines they actually have numbers okay okay which I'm I'm not sure who's looking at these things or not but you know we've got engineering people I haven't seen any comments from our engineering people okay but what I wanted to do was for example okay and so the first two polls are going to be are on the agenda for this month's Z for adjustment uhuh okay and what I wanted to do although I don't know which I'm going to do time was take I've got a photograph of the tolls right and I wanted to take print that out and I wanted to draw to scale where this thing is going to be compared to the tension high tension lines as far as okay my biggest problem is that the high especially is it's going to basically change um Route 35 if these things go in to what basically amounts to a an interstate highway you know with Billboards on it okay that's what it's going to do it's going to change the the community of gracious living you know to the community of good gracious living okay and it's like it's totally ridiculous okay now I did also go someone told about there's a pretty good siiz billboard next to riko in eent toown it's on the riko property next to the exine gas station it's a pretty big billboard I went there probably about the I would say it's probably about the same size no it's smaller than this CU I I sort of paced it off and it's maybe 36 ft and you got to be 4 48 plus plus it's lower it's way lower I mean it's right there okay so yeah I don't know and these things are not just it's not just it's the build the pcture the screen is 14 by 48 but there's a three foot bottom that's solid also that has a little place for a guy to walk or something I cat so so so that the solid thing is basically 177 by 48 okay and there's two of them it's on both sides and some of them are angled a little bit okay but it's just they're just humongous there's a building right north of Orchard Plaza okay that is there's one of them that's going up is going to be on this Ocean Township Collision or whatever it it's a mot Body Shop Right north of it and then the next building used to be Central or something like that and I don't know if that's their original building or they building been changed okay but the face of that building face is about 48 by 17 the whole face of that building facing 35 is about the size of the billboard except that now you're taking that building put and and you're putting the roof of it which is now 17 ft off the ground you're raising it another 37 ft off the ground oh wait 37t to the it's it's 70t or 60 ft to the top the top of the the worst one is 54 ft to the top of all right as fascinating as this all is what what exactly are we talking about here other than just talking about the dimensions and I just went back and we have the dimensions in the minutes from two meetings ago so what is new what is changed what I'm saying it's it's the thing as hum thing I did learn was that E Town supposedly turned down that billboard okay and but and it took eight years for the billboard people but the state of New Jersey improved the billboard in so mystical fashion but I'm not so sure if it's not on their property and it's not in their RightWay how they can rule that a Billboard's okay on private property I don't know I don't know anything about the Ed Town case to be able to say that I'm just saying this is what I heard you know from someone okay well how can the bo I mean this to me if there a Township ordinance that says None and the board of adustment is going to say yes to me that would be like or the board that says there's only going to be 30 and the board of adjustment says well we're going to have 32 that would almost be like saying the speed the speed on the street is 35 but no we're going to allow it to be different so let me let me as passionate is I think everyone in this room feels about this let me make a recommendation because we've written the environmental commission reports and as far as this body is concerned that is the extent of our limit so hold on Norm wait here is my suggestion to the other people sitting in this room if you feel so strongly about it I recommend that you go and talk to your council members into the mayor and you ask them to become interveners because the municipality can represent itself in cases before land use Sports it doesn't happen often it is usually an extreme step but it is possible for them to do it I suggest that if you take this feel this passionately about it you go to them because we're not going to solve it in this body tonight well well no but a a public outcry at the meeting because there was a lot of public information on this before the last when they were originally scheduled uh a lot of stuff on social media and I think it scared them okay point that they they they punted now they're in this me okay and I think that could help also number two I actually did have a conversation with the mayor and he says well he can't try to he can't INF try to talk to the member it's not proper to talk to the members of the board right they' have to send the town attorney influence them and so on and so forth they would have to represent themselves as interveners in the case legally with with representation that's how they would have to do it right right right we can't no your suggestion is AG so we still the social media now first of all PL this I was only saying that this is not legal and I actually got a call from the board of adjustment attorney telling me that no that's the purpose of the board of adjustment the fact it's illegal is why you have the board of adustment to be able to say no it's okay okay that's true for it's not for them to say that it's okay it's for them to hear why the ordinance it creates an undue burden on the applicants and that's actually not even the correct term it is a uh help me out here Jack uh benefits outweigh the difference no no it is a um a hardship hardship yes it's a hardship on them on on the owner that's what they need to prove right but of course it's not a hardship on the property owner except for the money that they're going to pay him I'm just saying okay but I'm trying to understand what we're talking about here because we have other things on the agenda okay all I'm saying is all I'm saying is what it's going to do to the town I think your idea of trying to uh talk get the town to support itself uh I think that's a good one because there was a reason that the town set made that La in the first place okay and uh so right yeah but of course I could easily see 10 more Billboards going up if one of these goes up we need to reach out to Dallas and make sure she's at the meeting because she was part of the group on the EC when we fought and put this ORD into place M yeah well ask her you know if she's able to participate and in store you know whatever she's got to do and meeting that the meeting of the an adjustment is like within it's two weeks from today I think something like that all right well okay all of that is not environmental commission actions we put the report together and submitted it Jack and I can't participate because we're on the other land boort when I did it I didn't talk about what it was going to look like so I we we did I the minutes right here say that you did no I didn't no I only said it's GNA be big but I didn't show a picture of how hum mons it's GNA be you're right but you have described it okay I get it so we can't go and testify we cannot not even as Citizens no appearance of impropriety yeah we can't do that I've asked um all right so planning uh moving on from plans onto Planning and Zoning we heard the car wash application on Monday night um the first half if you'll remember this application was split between two halves um because they need dot approval to close off the driveway onto 35 the northern most driveway onto 35 so that is a second piece pending do approval um this is they nothing's really changing they're sprucing it up they're making it look nicer they're changing how the UK and how cars line up to go through the only thing that was really noticeable is they will now have um 39 Cherry what were they do you remember Norm the shrubs they shrubs that supposedly I saw the comments that they would provide some screening you know but they're not well because no people put in Cherry Laurels they skip Laurels yeah they're not these are cherry Laurels did anyone see my comments yeah we talked them we talked about Ford F250s at length at length Norm I really really appreciated that conversation aze they used a size truck the smallest they they could could make I talked more about pickup trucks in that meeting than I ever wanted to um but they did change it from a sprink system to a drip line for the shrubs you know how about the trees that are going to grow right into the power yes and they're going to change the variety of trees as well to make sure that that do so yeah we went we addressed all the comments in your report I mean what they've done to that building already it looks a th% better than and it's going to look better but I mean like it's like 95% impervious cover there there's not a lot for them to do no are the what about draining of all the car wash soaps and chemical yeah yeah and again it's all pre they're not changing any Footprints they're not everything is staying the same so they didn't have to there's not a lot they had to address so actually the places that got into trouble was that they were trying to do better for us by putting some trees didn't pay any attention what they that they were flower lines right there yeah yeah um so yeah and they own it's the two lots it's that one and they also own the one where the the train basement building was um and they don't have any plans for that right now so that is what it is um moving along because it's after n Jack anything else on Green Team other than greenfest right now no but I am going to schedule a meeting with Dave Brown and see what we could do as far as upcoming actions so expect to hear for me stuff like that um really quickly if everyone could go on sustainable Jersey and pick out some things that you think we should do and let me know okay um and also what is the date of green fast now May 18th right 19 19 May 19th um it's going to be back at the library if anyone wants to to go we will um we'll be there volunteering supporting it should be a good day um lollipop Pond next lollipop Pond committee meeting is actually Monday at 6:30 DPW came in and helped clear out some of the trails that was what I was talking to Jun Armstrong about um we're going to see if we can uh find some one to donate mulch for the trails and put down wood chips and and everything else but uh it's moving along hopefully we'll have a a working trail system over there before too long um and that's it anyone have anything else they want to bring up right now right hearing nothing I'll second and second all in favor I I thank you everyone