this meeing have been satisfied a copy of the notice having been sent to Asbury Park Press news2 and the coaster and filed in the office of the Township Clerk on uh July 26 2023 emergency notice there is an emergency exit through the courtroom doors and two exits at the rear of the room there is no smoking no new cases will be started after 10:30 p.m. and no new testimony will be taken after 11:00 p.m. all meetings will be videoed and audio taped and shown on the township of Ocean County ocean Community cable channel channnel 22 on Verizon files and channel 77 on cable vision all cell phones must be turned off or if you need to make a call please make your call outside the meeting room so I think what we're going to do is have a swearing in of some uh two new members we'll do them separately Mr mon will go first I think you the you didn't have [Laughter] to we have a sports book [Laughter] you s i support the Constitution of United States to support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and I will bear true faith that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and allegiance to the same and to the governments established and to the governments established in the united states in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people I do further Solly swear I do further solemnly swear that I will Faithfully that I will Faithfully partially partially and justly and justly perform all the duties perform all the duties of the position of of the position of member class four member class four for the township of ocean planning board for the township of ocean planning board according to the best of my ability according to the best of my so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you [Applause] Mark and I think Mike pudus now down there well now you got Mike do you want me to stand by you or something or you okay I st your name hi Michael pus do me swear do me swear that I'll support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey that I will bear true faith I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and allegiance to the same and to the governments established and to the government established in the united states in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people I do further Solly swear and you further Solly swear that I will Faithfully that I will faithfully impartially impartially and justly perform just me perform all the duties all the duties of the position of of the position of member class 4 member class four for the T oftion planning board for the T oftion planning board ACC the best of my ability the best of my ability God God [Applause] so congratulations uh Julia and Mike and welcome aboard and uh thanks in advance for all the good work that you're going to be doing here as volunteering on this board so thank you um so I think what we should do is actually do a a formal roll call now here here here here here here here did they call B oh missed it okay um so we have a minutes for approval uh July 24 2023 July 20 August 28 2023 August 28 2023 November 27 2003 December 11 2023 and March 25th 2024 um can we just get a all in favor or does it have to be it's all in favor all in favor I any opposed great um also I just want to say the administrative modification request is no longer on our agenda it was actually meant for I think the zoning board so it's no longer on agenda so now we're going to hear um the new case um ocean relco LLC uh 2118 Highway 35 block 3.01 Lots 2 and three the applicant proposes to modify a pre-existing non-conforming car wash in two phases improvements include phase one modifying the existing quering area to provide uh two past station Islands kiosk menu boards and canopies and 18 cering positions provide seven vacuum stations for patrons to vacuum vehicles and Landscaping along um the Route 35 Frontage and modifi pavement uh stripping phase two and adding Landscaping along Route 35 Frontage and Mr chairman I have the following exhibits to Mark in yep wa M compel I'm going to Mark in the following bear with me one second take your time okay go ahead exhibit A1 will be the application itself exhibit A2 is the survey exhibit A3 is the minor site plan so those are the only tiibs I have from from the applicant at this time I know you're I know you're gonna have more we do have more and we're just piling them right now so I'll give good evening members of the board Jennifer kmco on behalf of the applicant uh so with regards to the application tonight those of you who've lived here in Ocean as long as Dave and I did uh know that this site is at least for our lifetime has always been a car wash um it was uh at least for 40 plus years it's been operated as a car wash prior to all of the current zoning regulations it is extremely nonconforming as to most of the bulk requirements as well as the now in effect conditional use requirements at the time this application was originally filed my client did only owned lot three the one that the car wash is on lot two needs to be part of this application because the owner of lot three has an easement over lot two in order for the uh queue to enter the car wash when the application was filed uh and we reached out to the owner of lot two it was discovered that it was for sale so my client purchased that property we now own both Parcels the application before you tonight is purely for the modernization and upgrade of the car wash lot itself in going through that process uh we realized that there is an existing driveway basically in the center of the two lots that if someone were to drive into it would be incredibly unsafe and they would drive right into into the queue for the last decade plus there have been cones preventing that from occurring one of the things that we wanted to do as part of this application was eventually close off that driveway because we've been in this process for more than a year and the client really needs to have the operational aspects of this updated we filed it in two phases phase one would be and as you're going to hear through the testimony all of the improvements to lot three the car wash lot and the easan area to effectuate these site upgrades then as part of phase two we would make an application to the dot to close the driveway and add that additional landscaping and the reason we did it in two phases is because as you know the dot application could take months and months and months up to a year sometimes so we didn't want to be held up with the other improvements while we waited for the dot so we did it in two phases so we could Bond them separately and move forward with them separately um just by way of a little bit more background I know that um R engineer reached out to your engineer to talk about you know what could be done in the meantime without a DOT permit and Ben suggested and we thought it was a great idea that uh we landscape just to our property line and that doesn't implicate the do right away and we wouldn't need approval unfortunately we consulted with Traffic Engineers and had this very issue on another application with the dot and discovered that any change to the access meaning where cars can now pull onto our site and they wouldn't be able to permanently would require dot approval which is why originally we were going to come with you and say yeah we're happy to landscape now we can't do that and not run a foul from the dot approvals um one of the other things as you're going to hear from the testimony is we're proposing to put in Pay kiosks in an effort to actually expedite the cues I check with my client in between the workshop and a a question that Mr pudus raised a great one is whether or not that's going to back things up as you're going to hear from his testimony they are man pay kiosks it's not as if it's not like an ATM where you go and nobody's there to help there is somebody there and and what the kiosks do is it will as you're going to hear through testimony it actually instead of all the cars converging at once once you pay your um your gate opens and you go through and then it it goes and it and it actually streamlines it but he'll give you some um information that then finally we did have an opportunity to go over Jim and Ben's reports uh we're happy to incorporate almost all of the comments that they had in them as you'll hear through the testimony that we go through it and that includes adding additional trees um we're going to offer testimony with regard to existing lighting as well as uh providing a trash enclosure and I think we might if when we do and we'll need a variance for that because it's existing in a front yard and it'll stay in a front yard I think we will be the only user along King's Highway maybe one other that actually has an enclosure everyone else is are kind of just out the way they're now and then lastly um the the project uh is non-conforming with regard to lot area from conditional uses well by combining the by having the two lots considered one uh we're actually uh improving that non-conformity and currently there's no parking for employees and what we're proposing to do since we own both Lots is to designate two spots on lot uh too for employees so we're actually making this property way more conforming than it currently is so that I'm going to turn around and see that my exhibit are and let me Mark in the uh let me Mark in the boarding so why so why we're doing that um did you already give so that's a good overview yeah and I was just going to move in some more exhibits but I can wait until after yeah let me Mark in the board exhibit exhibit B1 will be the planner report exhibit B2 will be the engineer report exhibit B3 will be the crime prevention report exhibit B4 will be the traffic safety report exhibit B5 is the code enforcement report exhibit B6 is the Environmental commission report zibit B7 is the fire marshal report and zibit B8 is the Department of Public Works report and before I go back to the scrim Cod let me just swear and our professionals do our professionals swear and testimony they're going to give this evening would be the truth the whole truth for the truth from God I do thank you both M I just want to add a couple exot so then as A4 is an aerial exhibit by Stonefield engineering and just looking plan it it well it's written on here prepared uh 42524 I imagine that's not the date of the aerial but the engineer will testify to that A5 is an exhibit that was in response to a comment by I think the environmental commission where they had asked about a larger truck being able to circulate on the site A5 is a truck turning plan uh revised through 41624 and it does show the larger F250 being able to maneuver through the site and Mr Man if I hand you this almost done two more Yep take your time A6 is a site plan phase one rendering exhibit it has a date prepared of 42624 thank you four A5 that's A6 what the DAT sign uh 42624 thank you as you'll hear it's just a color render version of phase one overlay onal and then lastly [Applause] A7 entitled site plan Phase 2 rendering exhibit is dated 42624 and I would just ask you to disregard the one of two on the bottom and the two of two on the bottom are you asking for any approvals on phase tonight or yeah the the fa the only approval for phase two is to close the driveway that's it land a little bit of landscaping no no no that's part of the that's part of the closing Drive I apologize that they're part and parcel we can't do the Landscaping without the do permit anything else you like to sh right now nope I'm good thank you so uh Jim would you like to go through your I think she covered most of my concerns actually my concerns that I had were the uh land the Landscaping the number of trees that could be put on the site which be more uh the trash area and the access as far as access from Route 35 um there are some variances that are necessary uh uh one is that uh the accessory buildings have to be the same uh same height and setback requirements for the principal building and the canopies over the pace stations are technically buildings because they're intended for occupancy and they have a roof and that's what the land use FLW definition is and they don't meet the front yard setback requirements I don't have a problem with that it's there's really no way they can do it first of all and there's a hardship um the location of the curve Cuts I think has been addressed and I think that'll be improved once phase two is is done uh these freestanding sign I think are more of a technicality uh two of the signs are the menu board signs that are really internal to the site not readily visible from offsite and the third sign is actually there now and they're not changing that so I don't see that as a as an issue the uh Landscaping within 15 feet of the curb is a variance and again if if they don't get that variance they can't put the Landscaping on the site because the site's so narrow and with the type of velopment is on the site now you couldn't do it uh they the other two Varian is the mulching material they they amended their plans they comply and the design again the Landscaping is not something that's extremely difficult so I really don't have an issue with the granting that deviation is as long as they work with Ben and me on the Landscaping which we will but Jim I have a question after reading your report and I didn't have a chance to reach out to you and again I think it's technical in nature well not a building the um the the vacuum stations and the central vac station are structures and those structures are technically allowed in a front yard right yeah so technically to the extent that it's a new variance even though we're replacing what's existing I would just ask the board to incorporate that as well because technically these structures are within a front yard setback okay so so just just so when you when you start going over this you're going to go over some of the things that he wrote 100% okay great like how many trees we're going to have and all that stuff one thing one thing Jim I wanted to ask you is um the uh how it feeds into back into 35 so after you get your car wash and how it filters into 35 is there any issue you see with that well you don't go back onto no you do go back onto 30 you go back on the 35 your car gets washed and then you go back on the 35 I don't have an issue with it it's been functioning that way for years okay right so that's something my engineer will talk about the site circulation and the only other thing which isn't in my report which should have been may maybe I alluded to it in a indirect way is what is going to happen with the train Celler building in the meantime because I know they're planning to come back with a site plan for that part of the site at some time in the future but until then nothing yes that's going to remain vacant correct it will be so again anything we do with that lot would require us to come in for site plan approval so the building will remain vacant ex and the lot will not be used with the exception of the two employee parking spaces until we come in for site plan approval okay we did not get over here the uh exhibit A6 site plan one phase I imagine is kind important the phase one and phase two we got the phase two we get to phase one do you have other copies phase two I'm sorry on the uh building vac building no we don't at this time it's not part of this application the intention is yeah I got this the intention is as soon as he can build out the improvements on this we're going to be ready to move forward with phase with the next I don't want to call phase two because it's not part of this application with regard to an application for the build out on lot two this is one of one would you like a preview sure the preview is it likely won't be a building it will likely be additional vacuums for use with the uh Car Wash but right now there is nothing pending so the building would likely be removed so what so um if you do we have so we we can ask Jim some questions or we can wait till uh Council kind of PR presents the the whole thing and then kind of go through that is that are we okay with that you have any questions you want to ask Jim real quick I I just have a quick one Jim in the EC's report um Norm pointed out some concerns with the variety of Ginko trees they were putting in do you uh share that concern but I quite frankly I'll defer to Norm on that because he's more of an expert on Botanicals than I am so then M we'll change it okay and and I'm sorry Mr def I always want to pronounce the G I know everyone does I'm sorry Mr dilia um we were going to go through that as we went through the presentation when I say we're going to do it subject to Jim we're Assuming he's going to implement the uh appropriate comments from the environmental commission through whatever he's going to require okay okay uh Bennett do you have anything that you want to share about your report uh I I think Jen kind of touched on all the the points in my report uh I'll really wait to hear from the engineer um to give testimony about you know each of the the things such as um parking the uh circulation um landscaping and the lighting and then any other things that that come up Okay cool so uh why don't we turn it back to you and you can um I have a question for you oh you have a sure good on your report about the 18 spaces yes yeah when I when I read through it and when I referenc back to C6 in the packet that we received got a little feedback it looks like the arm that you were referencing M crico about after you're paying it goes right through the vehicles in the drawings that I have so I'm trying to understand if if that's true that's not 18 SP no it it I I don't believe it will but I would just ask if we sit tight on that and let the experts testify how it's going to work and he could probably be better to answer how his plan is drawn up than Jimmer uh Ben okay I mean the and the drawings that we received I don't know what you're references six on ours here but the arms that you're referencing go right through the vehicle and again um I don't know for the scale but you know we're counting that these are 18 vehicles I understand what you're saying I'll have discuss that okay so why don't you um bring up your people to go through with us people just to start Aaron CH please uh come join me [Applause] and I don't know if if once he sworn I don't know that Aaron's ever testified here so we'll take a moment to qualify him sure you want to tell us a little about yourself Aaron but I'm swear all right sorry do you swear testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth about the truth stuff you got I do and just say your name to the record sure my name is Aaron Chan last name spell c h n you're licensed engineer state of New Jersey that's correct licens is in good standing as well and you've been accepted as an expert in other boards 25 boards in the state of New Jersey sure except your testimony thank you sir okay so Aaron uh being that you're the expert and having heard uh all the comments to date why don't we walk the board through what's existing on the site and what we're proposing by way of improvements sure so we'll back up a little bit to um aerial exhibit A4 um this was prepared by Stonefield engineering 425 and there's a microphone right there and if you want to stay the engineers can never figure that out you have to press the on button blue yeah it's on was good okay so just just to back up a little bit um just to give the board a little bit of color of the surrounding area as it is you know relevant to the access and to the circulation with this site so um located on the rout 35 southbound here we have um you know to the to the north we have the Bell tones hearing aid retail store to the to the east we have rout 35 opposite of the goost Cadillac dealership to the South that's the span Diner to the West obvious Kings Highway as also the self storage building for Life Storage um as Jen has already explained this property is comprised of the two separate Lots lot three being predominantly that car wash lot and lot two being that um train cell lot that's been vacant for some time um on lot three the car wash lot itself single tunnel building two lane queue with a 19 car capacity it operates in a counterclockwise um orientation currently there are no pay stations and there's a total of nine or I'm sorry seven vuum stalls on the existing site and the the drive lane that acts as the entrance of the building is that's the portion that's covered by the access easement that's part of lot too and Aaron currently the circulation is they would enter from the um Southern driveway on Route 35 enter into one of the two Q Lanes go through the que come out and they could either make a right to go out of Kings Highway they currently could go left out of uh Route 35 or they could go to the vacuums that's correct and we're not changing that in any way that's correct the access is described is being maintained so the driver expectancy customers who's comfortable with going to the site all that would remain with our proposed site Improvement okay and let's talk about what we are proposing now and and since we don't have it on a board aon's going to sit down with me and he'll just reference what we moved in before you oh I'm sorry before we do that you did uh prepare the the uh truck turning to confirm uh for the uh environmental commission that an F250 can maneuver through the site yeah that's correct so exhibit that's exhibit A5 and we did that prepare that exhibit at a direct Direct response to I believe Norm's letter where he indicates he has some concerns about F250 of a 22t length entering the site and we had originally prepared the F250 that's 19 ft in length and uh he had chosen the Su extended cab version 22 foot long truck is going to maneuver more like a like a van so understandably we had turned that vehicle in the um southbound turn lane as opposed to decelerating through the shoulder and the making the right so it can it can be done but realistically we don't expect those oversized large trucks to come to a commercial tunnel uh Car Wash that's correct it can be done rout via Route 35 southbound or alternatively they can come down kings's highway and make a left into the site and have much more maneuvering room so either way would work okay and let's talk about the uh exhibit that we moved in as a six what we're proposing by way of uh part of the phase want improvements sure so in exhibit A6 which is really the um the submitted site plan C4 with the added benefit of uh coloring and the proposed Landscaping just to give the board a clear visual what we're proposing there essentially are the pay stations that's being Incorporated at the about midpoint um through the Q Lanes the vacuum stalls that's being formalized and new vacuum equipment being installed as well as some Landscaping uh improvements and such I heard there was a comment in regards to the uh the pay Gates so the way we have currently have it shown you know there's actually a little bit more about another 10 ft or so that both lanes can can slide back so you know that'll provide the added added width to make sure that Q will remain 19 cars without impacting any of the drive your testimony is the 19 cars can continue to fit there with or without those uh with or without the gates that's correct um can I just ask you a question about this so I'm not sure if 19's a lot or not a lot is that a lot 19's A Lot 19 A Lot 19 19's a fair portion you know U our applicant here has I believe 13 locations across the state and uh any of these where we have the pay stations those are actually very modern um equipment that allows you to see different selections of of your product he also mans it with a employee that explains the different products being sold and the way those gates are operated is only one is up at any given time so then there's no conflict of merges so as the gate comes up vehicle pulls through they don't have the conflict of merging with the vehicle next in the next Lane and they're able to enter the the the single Lane as as it enters into the tunnel so my my my question my question was going to be more what's the probability of having 26 and then it overflows into the back is is is that so I I asked my client that he can test by having owned this for the past several years it does it hasn't occurred so far we're not changing it but your ordinance only requires 15 and we have 19 so we actually have more than what the ordinance requires so we exceed the requirements um true uh Jim anybody that 15 is what's required yeah yeah the 15 is required for single Bay car washed okay but is that 15 for the whole but but I do think you need some testimony in that regard because the ordinance is 30 years old and never anticipated this type of facility I don't have a problem I think it's going to work fine but I think you need to get something on the record it tells you and again we will but to the extent your concern is only stacking for 19 cars we're not making the car wash we're not changing the car wash it's always functioned with 19 cars uh well yes the only thing being changed obviously is the pay stations to help the efficiency and make it actually go faster well I guess not that I'm a super duper marketing person here right but I'm assuming as you enhance the facility and you add stations and vacuum stations and all that kind of stuff right and you fix the outward look to this and we improve the signage and all that kind of stuff we're not changing the signage so I'll have my client testify this is all being done to accommodate the current market there is a club type membership that you can have here most of the people are repeat customers um I'll have him testify to all of this but again this is not to increase the number of customers that come here the number of this is not a way to say hey we're fancy now this is we have a customer base and we have outdated dilapidated equipment and we're looking to modernize it that's it but I I'll have him testify to that okay okay so you know just to touch on what Jen has already referenced so there's seven vacuum stalls on site we're proposing to update that equipment and make that a more efficient and more userfriendly vacuum equipment same seven vacuum stalls that's not changing the same two lane Q that's also staying with the same amount of capacity we're actually gaining the operational efficiency with the pay stations you know having the selection in the menus having another person there to kind of describes the type of product you're buying and also like I said the paygate kind of allows for that you know green light red light kind of scenarios for for vehicles to go into the tunnel without conflict um as Jen has indicated already as well the there's two dedicated parking spaces on the lot two you know matching the number of employees that's typically anticipated to to run the facility um and I believe there was a comment in the planner's review letter um that asked for us to formally stripe and to sign those spaces to be dedicated to employees at which we would comply to do so and uh we also spoke about the the middle driveway closure so functionally you know that's the nearest tunnel to the entrance that's not good for the queing it's an unsafe maneuver so it's for many years been closed um for Access and uh you know it's part of our phase one we're leaving that alone but as far as phase two we had indicated that we are pursuing a uh access permit to close that but again the intention here is to get gain some of those operational efficiencies that can be had with the base stations with the better vacuum equipment and then pursue the dld permit that's required for the phase two pH two build out which is the closure of that particular driveway can I ask a question because I'm looking at something here now the location of the pay stations are they located there because they have some sort of access into the building at that point because because the way you're describing the operation and the merging it doesn't work you have four car two cars stacked Beyond where the gates are so when a gate opens and closes you're that doesn't resolve the issue of the merge because you're still going to have two cars that need to one needs to merge in front of the other without the benefit of the gate whereas if you took the entire paay station operation moved it to the north where the gates would be right where the two lanes merge into one that would function the way you're talking about it but right right now the way it's designed it's not going to point to that way yeah how about I have my clients worn in because I think a lot of the questions are operational and rather than have you wait and try to remember everything however you want do it it's okay step up there at some point we'll get all the we'll get all the perspective what he's saying is right okay so he wants have moved up here so there's only one C at a time in line I'm just thinking that that accomplishes what he's trying to accomplish so let's have you sworn in first Tom yes do you swear any testimony you're about to give will be the truth the whole TR something but the truth Stu you got I do and just state your name for the record Thomas Fuller Tomer can you just spell the last name FU l l e r all right and you what's your relationship with the applicant so I am the owner of um carh you're a principal in the entity that owns team Car Wash principal thank you go ahead and the and the property owner and principal and the entity that property let's let's go back a couple of steps yes why are you making all these changes it is basically to increase the site efficiency here so if you have been there it's kind of a it's been a car wash since 1940 and over time different things have been done there used to be additional entrances at the North End of the property on both sides uh that didn't really work and they would stack cars going down Route 35 and that wasn't really working so they Clos those off so it's it's to ultimately clean that up it's to increase the efficiency the pay stations um as we've kind of heard a little bit today um the way they really work is uh one gate opens a car goes forward another gate opens the cars they'll move forward with regards to moving them forward further we have to look at that because there's a required amount of space that they take um it's about 50 feet total sorry it's someplace between 30 and 50 feet I don't know the exact amount yeah but in front of those pay stations is a big magnetic loop and so what happens is I think you had asked the question you know where you see the the arm potentially coming down in the middle of the car um that can't happen so what happens is if the car is underneath that gate it's on top of a metal magnetic loop and the gate won't come down once the car moves forward then the gate will come down and so that's happening simultaneously with the two different things and so 99% of the time we're never going to have you know 19 cars 18 cars stacked up there but it happens in a typical day is a car pulls up or two cars pull up and sometimes you'll have two there one gate opens the car drives around another gate opens the car drives I just want to clarify my concern wasn't at hitting a car my concern was that the drawing is not accurate have the cars there it's you're counting two cars in the middle of a gate which isn't realistic and back to Mr Higgins point if you open the gate it should be only one lane then that I think that's what we're getting out we have to look at we my concern wasn't that you're were going to hit a car with a gate you can actually have cars stacked like that because because the the cars would be stacked there the gates would just remain open and so you could actually have Tom let me ask you a question but then that would defeat the point of having the gate to prevent a car driving Tom let me just ask you a question if you can come look at this I I think what the suggestion is is even if we kept the gates there if we narrowed this here so once you come through the gates only one car can be on the other side of the gate I don't know that we have to move it I think it can stay there and just not because then what happens is the way this is drawn the two cars that are past the gate now still have to merge understood and so what we need to look at is because these Loops are here do we really have do we really have the room to to do that if we can do that we'll do that for sure it's just it looks like this on this map I have to be out in the field to actually do it no but Jim are you are you sure about your suggestion what's that are you sure about your suggestion well my suggestion was basically to help them because it seemed they wanted to control the merge with the gates and the way it's done drawn now it doesn't control the merge with the gates so what we what we would do what we will do is it's make this merge sooner right so to follow Mr pudus will make it more of a single aisle right after the gate so only one car can go through but does that reduce you down to 14 spots then probably down to 16 or 17 be over 15 it'll still be over the 15 still be over the 15 right I think when Mr Fuller was kind of hinting at was that he needs some space in front of the to be able to have the loops and you can't merge too quickly otherwise the merge might affect the loops for both gates at the same time no I heard that that's why I asked Jim if he was I asked if he was correct that was that was clear so I I have just a quick question on clarification because I'm I'm envisioning like a McDonald's or other fast food that has two pay kios that you merge into does it matter when the cars go through they they making their menu selection now right like you're ordering food does it matter what order then they go through or are they going to when they pull around and go in are there is there going to be a token or something that they put in to make sure that they get the right service that they paid for no what happens there was there's no token and so what happens is the car that's in the left lane it goes forward and then the car in the right lane that gate would open and it would go behind it or VI versa so the what you're ordering you know you you will remain in that in that no but I think what matter then which order you go through the gates that's right okay right so in this scenario if it wasn't narrowed then let's call the the aisle closer to the building aisle one the one closer to the highway number two if both one and two come through the gates and are waiting next to each other they could switch orders in that scenario so the only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to narrow it so once you go through the gate they're funneled and they have to stay in that order that's right so that's that's what we will yeah that's why I made the suggestion I I think it's a good one so what we would and whatever it is with regard to the loop we can figure out that spacing because all this means is it's just shortening the area where it's side by side stacking it doesn't really make any difference as it relates to how they go through so to the extent we would modify we would ask that we would uh do that subject to should we get there subject to review of uh Ben and Jim provided we don't go under the 15 Q spaces I have a question sure so Mr filler I've been using the star wash for 40 years and um I do wish you the best though but one of the things I'm asking is are we going to increase the efficiency here because I can tell you that on a normal day there's never a problem at that place but get a snowy day you get that salt on your car the pollen it does stack up onto Route 35 so I guess from a planning side of things if we have a chance to make a difference Now's the Time to make a difference so I'm asking are are we increasing the efficiency or is this going to be one of those things where the gates don't work and we can't now we're stacking up on 35 and so as we started I own I operate own and operate 13 car washes um n of those car washes are this style exterior car washes where we're not vacuuming and drying the cars and at um all of those car washes with the exception of this one we have these pay stations this isn't a new technology this is a technology that's been around for 15 years on my staff we have a person and he so it's all run by the POS system it's called drb um and and so we have a dedicated person who just handles this sort of stuff it is much more efficient than one person driving around when you go there if you went there this week you know you go around you see CLI the manager and he asks you what wash would you like and you're all the way up there and there's a little chitchatting that goes on and whatnot in this instance um you have you doubled the capacity to to get people to pay um that's step one so you're taking making that part of it much more efficient we'll figure out this Loop the last Loop piece but it's also you know to just have a continuous flow of traffic we've um upgraded some of the equipment we're continuing to upgrade the equipment so that we can process more cars faster than kti was able to process cars you know he would typically he had the ability to process 60 cars an hour we're at a point today we've redone the electric in the building uh all that sort of stuff and we have the ability to process 100 cars an hour today when you get to the vacuum portion of it and you've probably vacuumed there a lot over the last 40 years years it's a mish mash right if you're on that space that's closest to Route 35 you're kind of in the way of where the cars are trying to get back out of the property Aaron will get on up and he'll testify to the fact that I think it's about a s foot Gap that exists there today when we put in the vacuum stalls we're getting rid of those big concrete blocks that are in the middle between them so that we can move everything further over so that you you know that 7 feet gets widen to 16t to increase the um ease of getting out and also how long have you owned the property for about a year and a half right so this is the the operations that we know all these years was not Tom's operation he's come in and it it's changed physically on the outside step one was to give it a facelift but step two is he's been undergoing all these things all of this would have been put in 16 months ago had he been able to but it a lot of other towns we've been able to just go in and it whatever difference in ordinances or whatever put in the pay stations put in the kiosks put in the new vacuums um your rules here a little bit different so you know when I look at it I say I'm 18 months behind where I'd like to be um because it took me 18 months to get here tonight but um it will it it it's all designed to increase the efficiency the flow on the sub processable cars all that sort of stuff yeah I mean I suspected you know you're an expert in this and and I that's all I want to hear I just want to hear that it's going to be more efficient it's going to be better operation so that we don't have cars down Route 35 you know turning into that strange way to turn in and then you weren't sure if you were merging or not the Cones were up they weren't up so my my only my only skepticism and first of all by the way you never been Dave's never used the vacuum cleaner because I've been in Dave's car so the the uh the thing I'm skeptical about is that typically when you have a better operation and things go efficient you do increase volume right like the the objective isn't I mean I appreciate you saying it's to be more efficient but efficiency is to increase volume and increase you know more clients and keep clients happy and get them to come more off and all those kind kind of things so I am a little skeptical that if it does I heard what you said about 100 compared to 60 so I'm a little skeptical that there there are going to be some of those days where it does bleed out into 35 I'm not sure if that really solves the problem so I'm not sure how we address it but may I sure okay couple of things the first one is right now if we don't make these changes the same issue is there and there's a guarantee it's going to be worse than it is today I'm sorry that it will be worse it will continue to be just as bad where if this gets approved it will be better you heard we can already do 40 more cars and this will increase efficiency that's number one number two by formalizing these lanes and by having these pay stations it's not only going to allow everything to go more quickly but now those vacuums it's not really strike you don't know which side to go on you're not sure it works this is now going to make everything safer and make the access aisles the appropriate WID so now everyone's going to be able to move through the site faster can we guarantee that there won't be a day that a hundred people come and they go we can't but it's certainly going to be much better than it would be if nothing gets done that's correct and okay anybody have anything I just have a a question so sure I think what concerns me a little bit is that we're I'm worried about cars back of 35 is you know and I what I don't like is that we're kind of like well you know we're moving the gates back we're not sure like I want there to be science behind this and I feel like we should not be messing with industry standards it needs to be something this needs to be something that's discussed between Ben and Jim and operator and Eric to that point we're not going to move the gates the gates don't need to move I think what we offered was everything stays how it is and we just narrow the merge so two cars can't be side by side after the gate does it reduce though the cars that could back up under 30 like I just don't want there to be less I I think it changes it by one car one or two cars but again I think realistically what's going to happen with the overall operation is as the owner said you have those peak days during the winter when people people's cars get salty they want to bring them in get them washed or maybe in the spring with with the uh pollen and everything you know there will be peak days I don't think those peak days are going to change I think what this is going to do is enable him to get more cars through and and entice people to use the car wash more on those off peak days when instead of being 10 cars in line there may be 11 or 12 cars in line and they know they're going to get through even faster whereas whereas in today's the way it's designed today they see eight cars in line they're not going to want to go because they know it's going to take them a while okay let's uh let's continue with the um discussion here thanks okay um I I think Ain we alluded to it currently where the vacuums are uh it's a very narrow and and honestly non-compliant access AIS to come out we're actually improving that widening it to 16 ft and making it compliant and that was at Ben's suggestion that's correct yeah it'll be a safer turn to exit the on back on 235 so circulation wise you know I know that was a thing that was mentioned before circulation pattern stays the same now the lanes are wider so it's allows for more room to get back on to 35 okay and with regard to the trash enclosure currently there just like most of the businesses there excuse me there is no trash enclosure there's just a dumpster kind of PL FL down behind the building and we're agreeable to constructing a compliant trash enclosure for that but the trash has to stay in the same location in order for it to be accessed so we would be seeking a variance to have the enclosure in the front yard that's correct when you look at this diagram do you have a anticipation where that's going to be likely being somewhere between the two notches of the building on that on that you know if you're looking on the page it's on the top side along the uh King Highway where the fence currently yeah along the Kings Highway Frontage so we'll be seeking that front yard variant what is this box right here you have that this one the Box on top of the yellow box no no no there's a there's a gray box a that's a great cover okay so it would potentially be behind that all right so it would be in the it would be in in between the two bump outs Mr Weinstein on the uh South side of that but again it would we would be submitting a plan subject to review by just curious yep y okay that's that's the logical um and right now there's no Landscaping in between the Q lanes and the highway so it's basically little Barren right now and we're proposing to install uh the uh 39 evergreen shrubs English Laurels so they'll grow to be about 3 to 4T height they're probably they're Evergreen shrub but they do flower so probably this time of the year they're flowering right now so we feel that you know it provide some head uh screening from the headlights for the cars in the queue as well as provide some site beautification so than and with regard to the request on the gko was it Geno trees I remember that one the Geno trees will work with the Jim to satisfy the environmental commission and where possible uh we will add addition we're not taking any trees away but we'll add more to the extent we can what what was the requirement for the 39 the area for the 39 I don't understand the question you're saying you're putting 39 trees right 39 shrubs not trees right yeah no point the trees I I'll tell you what the requirement is there's no way they can meet that 15 per acre what's that I think it's 15 trees an acre 15 an acre yeah and that's uh the total 10 total of 10 Street trees there's more than more than that in Street trees but again I don't think you put 10 trees on the site and you definitely can't meet they can't meet the street tree requirement either nothing exists there now well there's two trees that exist there now but we're going to vastly improve it we'll work with Jim to put them anywhere we can and obviously as part of phase two when we have that little landscaped area we'll be able to add even more okay and when we get to the types of plants I will bounce them off and more question area is there an elevation difference between the two or okay so I mean I hate to say this but um is there you know maybe idea for a guard rail or something I mean it's just you have tra it's so close it's it's can I come up and you point to me what you're talking about so right there that little grass strip there the cars are the 35 is going this way and then all our trees going to be of the property nothing's be by the high right well I'm just saying is maybe instead of the landscape or maybe an addition to it is there any way that guard rail of some type or something the do would would allow okay so no barrier it's just a it's about a twoot grade change and typically dot has warrant analysis for guide rails and such you know within the C so there's no warrant for in that particular location the way we we'll do the Landscaping you know is is essentially it be graded down at a stabilized firm with the Landscaping there that you know adds to the stabilization but there's no there's no warrant for it on that outside just because it's slow moving Vehicles it's 14t wide Lane there on the but also Eric there's a curb yes in between the highway and our property Cur there's a curb then a grass area then our Landscaping yeah so it's not as if the cars can I I understand what it looks like on that but there's actually a curve appreciate that can you just remind what are these hours of operation right now it's 8 to six okay and that's subject to change obviously as long as we're in compliance with your ordinance and speaking and that's a great uh segue um since we're not changing any lights we didn't prepare a lighting plan but uh Ben had asked us to look at it and make sure that it was adequate so Aaron you went out on site you did light readings and what did you find as it relates to the car wash operation so we went out on the April 18th at night and we found that generally the site is adequately lit as far as the existing light illuminations for the car wash operations okay and so we're not proposing any changes because even at night the readings were all uh acceptable and while they might not meet uh the ordinance to the extent that uh it would be required it's adequate for safe use yes correct and there are some areas uh on the other lot where we're not operating the car wash where there may be some deficiencies but since we won't have customers we won't have employees in those areas those will be addressed if as and when we come back for that lot Mr chairman I'm I'm fine with that especially because there 's no change to the layout of the site and or you know any of the there's no new parking areas or anything like that so the existing lighting should be fine okay thanks Bennett I do have one question that I meant to asked before that is the number of employees on maximum shift it's two right two two it is two okay so then the parking does meet the conditional use requirement for employees okay can I ask uh for the electric vehicles does this does the ordinance required for car washes or since they do have parking spots there are they required to uh put in electric charging stations they're not uh for a a a site that already exists and you have to have at least um 25 parking spaces to trigger the need for electric vehicles okay Char but also the only ones who could use the electric vehicle would be the employees yeah well hopefully one day we're all going to have electric vehicles and those employees are going to need a place to charge so you know that's where I'm going but the good news is that if that need arises and the applicant wants to put them in that site plan approval isn't required for that so he they could just go pull a permit and do that in the future if the need arises all right yeah I just wasn't sure with the ordinance what triggered it all right okay what else would you like to share with us I'm just looking to make sure that we hit everything in the letter um the canopies we talked about what we talked about menu boards yeah I think uh I think we addressed everything was there anything in your did you guys think they addressed I had in there was uh any possible need for screening the central vacuum producer what what does that look like sure yeah the intended uh Central Vacuum producer unit would be located on the far side of 35 so you really can't see it it's blocked by the building that's um where a lot of the mechanical equipment currently are I'm sure everybody on the board understands what Kings Highway looks like on that side Additionally the adjacent uh user is the self storage facility and we had to add a benefit of uh existing Landscaping along that front so but it's also No taller than the ex than the big vacuum stations that are already there correct yeah and if you can look if the board looks on Kings Highway next to the number two for the parking spaces there's a box that talks about it m Ben did you yeah I I think it's fine especially being that the site across the street is the self storage facility and it it does have Landscaping um on on their side so it's it's not up against the Route 35 uh right away so I I'm fine with that okay Jim is there anything on your on your report that you feel like needs to be elaborated on here I think they've covered everything [Applause] okay Jim I just have a quick question for you though the the 39 shrubs that they're going to put in that strip do you feel confident that they're going to thrive I looked I looked at them I know the plant I think they will Thrive I I did recommend rather than having a sprinkler system that they do a drip line which we agree to I agree to that will be it that'll work for us I I mean you know this is my my thought on this is this is the gateway to to Ocean Township for folks coming down 35 sou and I think that those shrubs if they look great it's going to make it look a lot better yeah but if they're all dead yeah that's that's why I want that's why I wanted the DP line a sprinkler system isn't going to work there it's going to wind up washing the cars before they get into the discount facility yeah so Jim you you also you made you made a comment here about the menu boards although there should be some testimony that needs the area for the height of these signs did you need to what was agreed it wouldn't hurt to have some testimony that why there need to be that size I don't have a problem with them being that size want to you want to go into that sure yeah the um the proposed menu board sign they're going to precede those um pay stations and essentially it's going to explain to the customer in the place that they can actually see it you know the type of different products you can purchase at the at the um at the pay station so there 26.8 Square ft each and there's two of them for each of the pce stations and U you know visibility wise we're not anticipating a visual impact because it is interior to the site it's not front sing 35 7 feet tall okay anybody have a u an issue with that or comment about it seems pretty typical for a wash that's part of marketing that's involved here okay right yeah I think just initially you're going to have some confusion when you first pull in there for the first time but you said you got somebody out site who's going to be the car wash he's going to say you you know you want to package a b or c you're going to move through but I think initially it'll be a little confusing but when you go for your 50th time so the the only other question um there are a lot of fire safety issues that that are with regard to the train s we building are you going to do anything you try to deal with those we we have code well we have a code enforcement report saying that there's no issue we're in full compliance I've had U ongoing conversations with the code person this is since January yeah it's so he had sent us a letter um we wanted specific sign to put up well first he said we didn't have to put up he sent we complied he sent recently a letter to put up the hazard signs that he requested and I've got a done okay because because we have the fire marshal report uh from January 24th says there's a lot of violations fur the answer is we'll satisfy the Fire Marshall okay good I mean that we have no choice otherwise they'll issue okay so you're going to work so Jim you're going to work with um the applicant on the maximum number of trees right yes that's correct okay all right and with the location and V and I work with with the location of the trash enclosure right okay I just have one more question for Ben Ben I'm just reading the detective's report here it said uh something about lighting suggestion are these lights that are already there in compliant with this or is there something else different the the police uh report um I don't know if I have a copy of that yeah off exterior L should be placed on Tire exterior of the building Lumin human activity prevention lights remained from dust until dawn yeah so the the site is illuminated and I I think the testimony was that it it meets the ordinance correct well it certainly meets the safety requirements as outlined by uh this review letter that was what we were listing it might not meet the letter meaning the ratios and everything else but we went out to make sure that it was meeting the intent of what he's asking for that the there's no dark spots and just want to make sure we're not missing something that's all yeah no I I think that the the testimony was provided to address that letter um so I'm fine with it bigger concern this site people see it on the way in um are the vacuums are a 247 no okay vacuums get turned off when the cles theal it I'm sure I don't know how it work know back in the day anyone okay thank you good question Mr chair I just want to get a clarification you said 60 cars an hour 100 an hour going through there how long does it take to go through the car wash once I I already paid I'm in you know I merged in I'm I'm next I'm going through the tunnel is that a set time for every car is there if I get the Super Deluxe I'm they're longer so if we we have what we call the chain speed and I'm not an engineer so I'll expain I understand Finance but um so previously the chain they would run the chain speed at 60 cars per hour which means it took about a minute for each car to get washed now we've done with it you can we can run the chain speeds at 120 cars an hour and we can theoretically wash 120 cars an hour so it take that would be you know I guess 30 seconds 30 seconds to wash the car yeah speak through get through that now how much time do I get when I go through there to have at the vacuum is there a set time that I have we usually we'll have a sign some is that something I would pay forward first or is that complimentary with the car wash so the vacuums will be free with a car wash so there's no more um Porters or any of that sort of stuff it we generally put a a sign that says you know please limit yourself to 10 minutes now you know most people are significantly less than that also how do you keep people from coming to just use the vacuums if they're not getting a car wash oh we thoroughly discourage them from doing that but um what happens is you come out of the front of the car wash I mean in theory somebody could pull into the lot and they could use one of those vacuums and that's just sort of kind of the cost of doing business and giv your your customers the free vacuums and the managers kind of keep track of that you know they see somebody out there and they say he look but there are scenarios where the vacuums are all used and someone might not be able to get their vacuum yeah but that's been the casee again for the last right no no no I just think going to what Mr I'm just trying to understand that I was I was trying to do the math on the timing it wasn't you have 30 seconds I'm in the car tunnel for 30 seconds then I get a maximum of 10 minutes to vacuum but not everybody yeah so that's the not everybody gets 30 seconds it would be great if I had like two acres and I could have 50 of those vacuums but no no I was asking for the tunnel it's 30 seconds that's that's when we're when it's going at maximum speed yeah just a question to from Kings Highway there's still an enter Arrow anymore that they could actually come into the car wash that way yeah the okay so okay fair enough we would actually you know so I guess there's some cross traffic there it's always been like that I know I think there are people that some said that are comfortable coming from that direction that's definitely true people especially Lo right okay have we do we feel like we've umj the major things one last on the serpentine you know you said that what's Chang you own lot next door so is we ever considering expanding the serpentine around that Circle to accommodate more cars stacking no I no what it's it what's there now has worked and it it it wouldn't it would artificially go around and just have an open space so no the only way to do that would be to somehow relocate the building yeah well I mean the whole concern was that it's going to go into Highway 35 five I think that was everyone's concern and if you're saying it's 18 maybe it's 16 but if you really need to include it you know on the second lot there can you expand that to include the stat is there a reason why yeah so the the Lots themselves they they they taper down and it gets to a certain narrowness in a lot where the minimum radius on the inside it becomes a little bit unachievable for cars to kind of get all the way back to 180 so we would love to have a you know longer queue and everything it's great for operations but it gets to a certain point where there's a very diminishing narrowness where it doesn't really work anymore a Ford F 250 couldn't do it that's what he's saying but also the reality is your ordinance requires 15 spaces we're going to have an excess of 15 spaces so you know you don't zone or you don't plan for the one day a year where you know there might be a snowstorm and there might be a backup your ordinance does it for the every day no I was just going off Mr Fuller said he wish he had two acres but he has the other add more vacuums he meant not for the que but he saying you wanted more acreage you have the acreage there you could actually use it for the stacking that was my point understood so okay um anybody anything else do you guys have anything you want to say right now okay um so I'm going to open this up to the uh public now for public comment anybody from the public like to make a comment about this uh application I think they're all just fans of uh Julia in the public I recognize some of those if you felt like you wanted to come up and make a comment about Julia you're perfectly happy to do that uh Am I Wrong dad nothing come on seeing nobody from the public I'd like to make a motion to close this hear call second okay um anything else for anybody here for us to discuss no okay anybody like to make a a motion at this time I just did oh we have to we have to have a vote to close the public session sorry yes you all in favor you don't have all in favor I oppose okay okay so now um bringing this to a close anybody like to make a motion for any on the applicant resolution okay so anybody want to second that I'll second that okay so we're going to be voting for um approving the applicant um with some of the stipulations that we've already identified correct correct got them okay all right good let's have aoll let's have a roll call on this yes yes yes yes yes yes yes thank you very much congratulations and uh thanks for thanks for all the explanation for to use car was don't worry about the vacuums though okay so now we're going to move on to uh a review of the proposed ordinance uh number uh 245 2457 flags and penants this is really for us to just approve that we all believe that it um adheres to the master plan so I'd like to make a motion that it does adhere to the master plan okay great can I get a second a second great um I think we should probably have a roll call on it yeah have a roll call on it yep uh sure yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes like to make a motion to close the meeting I'll second all in favor I I anybody opposed okay nice meeting everybody