[Music] good okay we will call the meeting to order and Claire may we have a roll call [Music] please herei here Jero here lki [Music] here here here okay we'll stand in the flag and pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for okay the notice requirements of the open public meeting law for this meeting have been satisfied a copy of the notice having been sent to the Asbury Park Press in the coaster and filed in the office of the Township Clerk on July 21st 2023 there is an emergency exit through the courtroom doors and two exits at the rear of the room there will be no smoking no new cases started after 10:00 p.m. and no new testimony taken after 10:30 p.m. in addition uh normally the applicant will be limited to 45 minutes of testimony all meetings will be video and audio taped and shown on the township of oceans Community cable channel channel 22 on Verizon FiOS and channel 77 on cable vision all cell phones must be turned off or if you need to make a call please make your call outside the meeting room our case this evening is memo Investments 44 mouth road block 7 lot 51 in the C1 Zone seeking to construct a three-story building with 11 residential units which will consist of six two bedroom units and five three-bedroom units as well as a basement with storage gym multi-purpose room and utilities side improvements will include a total of 25 parking spaces a playground area lighting landscaping and signage and the attorney is Jennifer S kmco good evening Madam chair members of the board Jennifer kmco from anel have the ask very briefly for you and um couple of claric so this is actually an amended application this original application was submitted more than a year ago it came in consistent with your conditional use standards for this Zone C1 Zone allows for an inclusionary or an affordable housing uh component uh residential mixed use with commercial on the first floor we came in with a plan uh the Varan there were some variances but they were not necessarily significant uh the issue that before planner had more than anything was with regard to having trucks on site with the residential neighborhood right behind us uh he recognized that and I'm only sharing this I know Jim's not here I wanted you to have some of the history he recognized that this zoning was put in place as a result of a um of a of a affordable housing liation and a settlement with the town and this overlay was put on his property he had advised that I think even put it in Prior letters it was never really intended for this lot for a lot of this size this one just happened to fall under it it was really intended more for Norwood Avenue so we met with him at least two if not three times as well as the board engineer uh and I don't know if that then administrator and we went through many different machinations of the plan and he felt that considering the residential behind us that a full residential project would be far uh more amable for a few reasons one there would be no trucks backing up uh at various hours that would serve any potential retail or restaurant that was there there wouldn't be the same noise and um other attendant issues that would normally go with having commercial development there well the plans that you have before you do s a mix of bedrooms uh even though this is uh not a permitted use meaning 100% residential it doesn't fall under the conditional use standards which requires a set as side of affordable housing it does fall under your general affordable housing uh ordinance and that does require either a 20% set aside for for sale or 15% set aside for uh rental in this particular Cas as you're going to hear through the testimony these are intended to be rental and to that extent we would be required to 1.65 units as affordable units I had the pleasure of speaking with mayor Wan who is the a planner who uh propagates all the affordable housing as now basically your Co planner uh and she had indicated that while we can't uh do a payment in L and only construct one we will be required to construct the two she's the uh person who makes the decision with regard to bedroom X and the like and what's affordable moderate or very well affordable and what she had indicated was that um should we get an approval tonight she would work with us on that so as it relates to the affordable units and that's why I'm giving you so much background on this as it relates to Affordable units those bedroom mixes may change uh only because it's going to be subject to what the Township's affordable housing consultant wants in the in those units and we really don't have a whole lot of control over that it's ultimately going to be up to her for compliance as it relates to the market rate unit that doesn't change secondly and then I'm going to be quiet and let the professionals talk um secondly the plan that you have before you doesn't show the playground area as you're going to hear we do have a we did have an open space area on the plan when we move the exhibit in you're going to see that we're proposing a uh small playground area for the residents uh we're showing what is some typical equipment in the play area uh we would prefer to not have to come back for site plan approval each and every time a piece of equipment needs to be replaced so we're asking is just for approval to have play equipment in that area subject to all other codes and regulations um but not to be tied down to the pieces of equipment that are shown there because depending on who's living in the uh in the in the unit maybe they going to need some more top lot type things or maybe uh some you know more advanced so all of that is the background uh and following the C letter I'd like to move in as A1 the preliminary final site plan revise through October 5th 2023 A2 the architectural plan uh prepared by birck City dated revised through September 28th 2023 A3 is the survey by Insight rised for August 3rd 2023 A4 is the operations and maintenance manual by Insight RIS to 10523 and 85 is management report also by Insight also at the same date of October 5th 2023 some additional exibits is and I have them to hand out public have the board excuse me A6 is an aerial exhibit by Insight uh dated February 16th 2024 which I think the original scheduled to be heard and this shows a color rendered overlay a color rendered overlay of the development A7 is just a closeup view of the color overlay the C rending that we're going to present we actually part of the architectural plation so she'll Tes for that so and just so the public are available sorry have hand out so tonight I do see everybody here tonight I have a professional engineer and plan who wears those masks he's going to be testifying first just as the engineer we then have our traffic engineer testify we will then have our architect testify and then we'll have Mr wood come back and provide the planning testimony as you know I can't really testify all of the other Witnesses had U had put in their testimony so with your permission that Patrick Wood have been qualified as an engineer and a planner and get started okay Mr wood if you can raise your right hand do you affirm to tell the truth the whole truth I do and you have test before this board and I'm assuming your credentials have not changed so not okay okay well you being the expert and the fir who prepared these plans I'm going to let you walk the to with the neighborhood with thei one take over yet I want to walk the board through uh what's existing there today what proposing that mic and then let's talk about the uh compliance with the under line [Music] zon yes okay okay just so the public knows this is just what we out to so subject property is 44 M Road County Route 15 you can see where we are here this is the the uh neighborhood aial 86 north to south on the page is M Road here's West Park Avenue um and Park Avenue is down here so where we are is just about across the street from 7-Eleven a couple loots north of West Park Avenue in the M Road intersection what you can kind of see is how the layout of our property which I get into the nitty-gritty as we go through this kind of sits along this Corridor of Mammoth Road commercial Corridor the commercial Corridor yeah and you can see it's it's fully developed as we all know with kind of a mix of commercial uses and mixed use uses a couple residential uses as well there behind us to the West is residential Zone and you know that kind of carries through through m road as you go north to south you have the commercial mixed use Corridor and then beyond that is single family residential as you get to the west and also to the East and P I'm sorry I had put on the record but just to clarify this is the C1 zone so this is a commercial Zone all the commercial uses are are permitted and I indicated that the mixed use is also conditionally permitted that's correct yes we're in the C1 neighborhood commercial Zone there's a a lot of commercial uses that are permitted here um so what I'll do is I'm going to refer to A7 which is our color rendering site plan just walk the board through what we're proposing so right now as youve driven I'm sure you driven by the site often it's a bacon lot previously it had a building on it with a driveway um that's been taken down and demolished right now it's vacon and clear basically the applicant is proposing a three story building um on the southern side of the lot kind of the center um and it's a three story multi family building so the building will have 11 units and it's made up of six two-bedroom units and five three-bedroom units subject obviously to change should we have to Bas on theal housing that's correct right right so what we have coming off MTH road on the north side of the property we have our entrance driveway we're proposing parking lot as you can see all shap here color Pavements there small site ID sign some Landscaping which I'll get into it a little bit lighting sight lighting um the playr is CRI reference at the rear let me have just to point out once before the board is a color rendered version of what we submitted as A1 with a few modifications that we made in response to the board engineer and the board planner review that's correct so and again we'll go through that in detail but I just want the board to understand that this may look slightly different than the plans that we looked in as a right and then we also have an underground storm water management system which I'll describe in a moment as well this application because it is solely multif family we're requesting a use variant uh it doesn't have a retail component as Mr crico Sav it at the beginning um and this is not a principal or conditionally permitted use in the zone we do since we are on a county road today we do have a conditional approval from MTH County planning board for the site development and the access on M just and the only conditions uh are M things like posting Bon that nature right we're basically tail they we met with the just like we met with Mr hi and the board of Professionals in advance of see seeing the board here we did the same with the county way back when we started and it required us to dedicate an easement for Road widening to the county as well that's correct it's not yeah it is an easement for future Road widening and and we've accounted for that on our plans and in the plan set that you have in front of you in A1 so just touched on a couple of site uh related items utilities all public utilities are available in mommoth Road and we're proposing all new connections for the new building uh for storm water management this is not at the level of a major development which you I'm sure you've heard for larger projects but our goal here and really what the township likes to enforce for something that doesn't reach the threshold of major development is to reduce all runoff rates from the pre-existing conditions um majority of the site drains to the Northwest here there's a low spot actually on the ne property so what we're going to do is we're going to collect and and mimic these drainage patterns we're going to collect all the roof runoff and all the pavement runoff and we have two permeable pavement areas with storage PLS and what that means is that we are collecting and infiltrating all the St water management all the storm water I should say excuse me on site um very little is leaving the site and actually in our storm water management report we do identify in our table that we're significantly reducing all storms to the point of really completely and very little is being discharged at to the Northwest and Pat as it relates to Ben's letter brw is here in support Ben uh we can comply with all of his comments as it relates to the storm water so we don't take issue with any of that's correct we have no issue with the CME review memo we'll work with Ben's office as a condition of any approval as needed and I only mention the the drainage but that goes to the general comments the lighting comments the uh EV charging station comments water management ility and thecell no excep the board approved this we revise plan addressing all of satisfaction right so we do have a traffic engineer here but I want to just kind of introduce a couple uh thoughts to the board here about traffic this application will result in less traffic than a conforming use of the C1 zone so as I mentioned the C1 Zone permits a a list of uh commercial and Retail uses that are quite frankly a higher traffic generator than what we're proposing here and potentially more trucks as well and More Trucks yes not only just pass vehicles but trucks so what we have here is a three story building what would be permitted here would would be a three-story building two floors of residential above commercial on the ground floor traffic from that type of building would be higher than what we're proposing here for just the 11 units um we talked about the trucks that we were trying to avoid trucks here from the backing up the beeping of the the trucks um and and any delivery there are uh medical and dental offices permitted in the zone um they're typically the highest traffic generators and again we're not proposing that here we're proposing solely the 11 residential and fact there's actually a doctor's office right next to us just to the north right here is and to the south of us is uh retail there retail down to the Y okay so for parking and this kind of ties also in with traffic and the intensity of the use by ordinance this type ofel would require 19 parking spaces so that's about 1.75 parking spaces per unit by the residential site Improvement standards 2 parking spaces are required then we have the EV credit which was identified in the CME memo the that would actually result in a reduction of the required parking by two so it gets to 20 parking spaces so on the whole 20 spaces are required what we're proposing is 25 so we're actually providing five extra um the reason is is we wanted to account for visitor spaces we had as you can see we're not we had we had the area to do it we feel and we feel that was important because there's no stre parking anywhere in the vicinity right and let me just uh and and John R can speak to it later we want to we want to provide more visitor parking than recess requires because the recess parking standards takes into account the 25 space per unit that's correct already taken into so Reeses only would require a 7 total of 22 spaces but we're adding three Extra Extra Spaces over Rees Al together correct right so we have an abundance of spaces and above and beyond what the rsis requires for space and we will provide the the charging stations and or make ready we will as for the ordinance yep as required move on to Lo so loading Township ordinance for a you for use like this strictly multif family strictly residential doesn't require a loading space regardless we have designed the site to accommodate a trash truck which is really the only truck that we anticipate uh entering this site and one of the things that just so the board understands how much gy was really looking out for everybody was one of the things that Jim had a concern with in the commercial scenario was a big trash enclosure which would have to go in the back in the northwest corner which would have the greatest impact on the um Neighbors in our proposed condition how we uh could to handle trash yeah so that's a great point so what we have here on the north side of the building about halfway back you see on the architectural PL but we also s it on our plans is a trash room and there's a kind of covered I don't want to say indent on the building apolog the architect Advance on that but that's where we're going to access that when I say we in the private Hauling Company that would come and visit the site at the hours because it's a private haer we can work what hours they come how often they come and what they actually do to actually take collect the trash so we anticipate the truck enters the site stops the workers will enter the trash room which have its own dedicated entrance not the pull out the cans that you can see on the Architects plans unloaded trash and then the truck can turn around that's the beauty of this L-shaped parking lot we have we have enough room to turn around and get out to M Ro and importantly the backing up is away from the neighbor so any development is going to have a trash truck but the way we set it up the backing up would be away from the neighbors and then we're not going to have any trash or recycling left outside in any congregate area right yeah so you you know typical of any other commercial site plan you'd have a trash enclosure which maybe goes beyond its enclosure we have a trash room that's fully enclosed you're not see any cans or any dumpsters outside the building okay and what about lighting so lighting the goal of site design lighting as it always is with when we do it is to light the important areas the driveway your parking lot the walkways on site we don't have a ton but I'll get into that and really the rear yard area where you'll have people uh that enter the site using the site will so we feel like we've accomplished the goal of providing safe and adequate lighting with one home mounted light near the driveway it's only 16 ft high that illuminates really one of the critical areas on site and four building mounted lights and they're going to be 12 ft High all buildings are LED lights and they're all downward facing the most common standard for maximum permissible lights Village is half a foot candle at the property lines um our lighting plan does indicate 41t candle at the northwest corner of the subject property and that's adjacent to one of our residential neighbors but one of the things we noticed in advance of this hearing um that we had we didn't include the evergreen trees which we'll get into in a moment the buffer plantings that we're proposing in our model those trees when they grow or when they're planted will shield that 0.1 foot candle so really we have no spillage we feel that we have no lights spill and we'll be happy to demonstrate that as a condition of approval to the engineer and Patrick because this is not a single family home and because it's subject to a site plan the landscaping that's being proposed is going to be required and will have to be m or else we' be in violation of our site plan so those trees will always be there yeah there as approved they are forced to be to remain perpetuity or be replaced we do have a few design waivers required for the lighting design again our goal here was to minimize number of pictures but still provide safe and adequate lighting we have4 foot candles as minimum in the parking area where 6 is required in our opinion4 is is adequate um sometimes the standard is 23 or 25 but in a small parking lot like this point4 is appropriate and and that also doesn't take into account any Lighting in the area correct it not any Street lighting or any lighting from the neighbor properties wouldn't be taken into account it as if was a dark world yeah this is our lighting analysis in a back here um looking at 44 M we have the uh average to minimum lighting uniformity ratio uh waver and then we have the max Min parking area lighting uniformity ratio 13.5 were less than 10 is required and those are kind of Technical and the board is this board and the planning board routinely granted it because it's nearly impossible to me it to yeah in order to meet those standards we would need a more fixtures lower fixtures lighter we say softer pictures but more of them we're we're trying to get this this is a smaller property right we acknowledge that trying to achieve the safe and adequate lighting designed with five pictures four of which are on a building so we feel like we've achieved that and again the goal is to minimize impacts to our neighbors um not so much MTH Road here but off to the West behind us we don't want them to see this Village we don't want to see them to even see the glare of the lights in terms of landscaping we had a landscape architect prepare the a new landscape plan for the project so um as you can see here we have a lot of plants you know along this entire side of m road coming around the north side and of course C around the back and rear it's a total of 412 new plants um the goal here was to provide attractive street skap so we have some trees framing in this front parking area frame in the play area as you can see at the rear and then also to provide a buffer to our neighbors at the rear we feel like we've been able to accomplish these goals with 412 PL plants in half an acre how many say plants that includes trees trees shrubs yep all everything um in Mr hain's review memo he did suggest this is one of the site plan he suggested he had a concrete walkway around the building and we had that for egress from from the building but also circulation for pedestrians we're going to propose that all as pavers decorative pavers as Mr haggens had suggested so this exhibit shows that and um the revised site plan in the future will'll show as well as I mentioned earlier we're providing a free-standing site ID sign near the driveway on the North side it's fully conforming and then we also have a building ID sign Network reping that's also as those you'll be able to see on correct so recognizing that you're going to go into all the variant when you put your planning Witnesses are there any questions to the engineering testimony just offer recognizing we have a traffic engineer and an architect still to come where's the trash stand the trash room right here there's a little bit of a it's not an overhang it's there's a Al alode perfect where there's a dedicated entrance from the parking lot to the trash room and then of course the tenant get to the trash room from the dump be inside there's not going to be D there be cans can trash and recycling cans with the 11 units we feel that we have enough room in there and can to accomodate the use and does that go to the mail room am I reading this correctly they're separate um but there's a corridor that leads directly the outside from the internal lobby area you can access the mail room from that Corridor and the trash room so when the residents have to take out the trash they taking it downstairs to the trash room and then depos there you mentioned the road will be widened is that no it's it's not going to be widened the county required us to dedicate an easement in case they widen it okay we're not widening the road as part of this in any way shape or form and and the easement lines are the white lines on the plan I'm assuming uh there is on our site plan it's probably easier to see but there's a hatched area across the front that's 5 wide there actually going to be what what it will look like in reality is a 5ot white grass strip cuz when we can't put plants in in there so you'll see back a sidewalk 5ot lawn strip then plan but again we're not dedicating it so it will stay part of our property and that was one of the things that we requested from the county they granted us that week I just wanted to see where the easement was called out on Y show got it oh you got it and it's just here if it were to be put to use it wouldn't be on the entire Block it's just so what I can very simply is that they're entitled to take it anywhere they want it may be that they already have either dedications or easement because anytime someone comes in for any kind of development application they require it so if they don't have it and they want to ride in the road they're going to just take it but again I don't know that they're wiing the road this is just something they have a master plan which in like you guys have a master plan with road with there's is the same in any application you go you have to give it any yeah so explain the drainage to me again so the I understand the whole Bas and I understand all that but the the permeable sorry the non-permeable pavement is going to drain to the permeable pavement is that so you have a high spot in the corner someplace and it drains towards the N yeah to the peral right so it's somewhat I'm try to keep it simple like as you enter here this is like a rge in the proper not not much of the property drains to that's kind of what was asking is are you draining anything to momet or is everything draining back into the property very little like the crosswalk area for example right so then the rest will is heading in this Northwest Direction following the curve line and it's straining right towards per how does the Overflow work the Overflow is done with the inlets yes yes so there's an inlet at the corner here that acts as our emergency overflow in the event that there's a there's a can't it can't drain through the pavement it goes through the inlet goes into the ground and there's also Provisions in the the BMP manual does require um if the surface actually clogs right there's we have inlets that allow for the surface run off to be that word but inject into the the storage bed and then infiltrated just like you can see with any other system that's underground and then this front system is kind of in its own area here that collects its own surface run off a portion of the roof heads here and a portion of the roof goes directly into this Pat one of the things that we looked into evidence and I know you is the operation manual which will require to submit it gets reviewed by the um board engineer and then it has to be implemented it actually gets recorded against the property correct yeah so this this current pavement cannot be replaced with your standard Pavement in the future if they want it to repayment then there be issues and it also includes what they have to do by way of Maintenance yeah there's periodic maintenance um you know annual maintenance that even more frequent only stay that like 7 was 72 hours in the in the drain down that's that's y That's a state rule there's inspection ports that we have so could you can actually see how that's functioning for when it is insed and is there still a basement there is a basement yeah there is a basement yeah and the architect will get any other questions from board members [Music] okay um yes let's take them now since they're fresh any questions for Mr Ward if you can come to the microphone and state your name and your [Music] address my name is Robert I live 100 Mar place for the last 21 years Robert can you just tell your last name um so is there any kind of gate to this property I heard at one point that that was part of to put a gate across the uh par no we don't have any proposed here I don't believe it would permissible we do have a fence along the rear was never yeah I don't think it was ever part of any the county wouldn't allow because then people would back up into the county to get in the property would never happen sure any other questions from Mr Ward from the public oh I'm sorry yes Mr pabet um yeah I had a couple questions for Mr I know you said you would comply with all the [Music] [Music] conditions Wares sure no problem okay um parking that and E Andes that lighting requested waers be one this just be rounding issue with the um with the LI plan6 B handles is required1 show on the plan if that could be addressed or you mentioned point four is that the yeah so we will condition is that we will have zero L bu it was it was an error in the model with not modeling The Bu proposing propos I think1 sorry1 is proposed 06 we're going to have to Z and then just to to clarify that to the to the residential well I w't say to all of our neighboring we do have M Ro but that's for safe I'm talking y just want to make sure that was clear going water um we had a few comments here um some profile pits yep um the land cover the existing one out be based on with past five years said one question I did want you to in detail um [Music] emergency emergency overflow speci for both for the lot for the Bing out should that function or get EX storm whatever that so and this is something we work with your office post approval but we the intention is these are your emergency uh grates where they'll actually collect and then head to the stor but the event that there's a failure of the entire system it would head in a northwesterly direction it's the only place it can go and the same so that would spill over into this system if this system were to fail this Inlet here is actually flushed with the Curve and that's where our overflow will be to the Northwest where everything goes today okay once it goes to the Northwest is that an isolated L spot on the next property yeah there's a stand of vegetation behind this parking lot that is a kind of a regional low spot is that typically that not by our inspection we went out there and we working with Ben um prior to the last heing we went out there and looked at it with topography and also so visually it it doesn't appear to be wet um or consistently wet I think the soil here and that's we'll do more profile pits as required but our initial investigation showed that this area is very sfy so we have actually a very high cability rate I think that's reflected to the Northwest too where that area doesn't have a lot of standing water in the AM of a rainstorm for a long period of time okay now in the 100 the model 100 years St did you model be 500 years we did not in 100 year how much this so yeah I'll get into the so the and I like this and the predevelopment number that I'm going to reference our subject to change based on the one comment that you just raised about um the Ral coefficients for the existing but predevelopment uh we have 1.87 CFS so the 100e storm post development is1 so it's a reduction of 90% um and then the other storms you go from they're almost 100% we have for the 2-year storm is zero CFS uh 10 years 01 and then the 25 years 03 those that is as we know like a very small amount of water discharging from the so just to so the record's abundantly clear in the worst storm that we model for the 100e storm under the DDP RS we reducing existing runoff by 100% I'm Sorry by 90% 90% okay Prett that's all I have I one comment on the EV it's not shown on the plans right correct okay so they're just going to comply it's a state state regulation and they're going to uh the reason I say that a lot of times I always recommend that the e The Illustrated purchases only because fire departments and stuff they have to apply on where they would like it so as long as they're giving me numbers it's fine I'm sure you work with the the with the Township's fire department other yeah the fire departments have a new rule that hasn't been cifi anywhere yet but they now want these 15 ft minimum from any buildings it's not a rule yet but generally where they can get it and that's presidential concern people that garage but and the reason I say those comments is that I wouldn't being held to uh being held to a certain spot I would want you know approval to a spot not for this but just a fure let the bar Department their their input on it it's it's an ongoing discussion i' had the other part name any other questions from the public okay and our experts were no other questions okay talking about [Music] next okay and please state your name uh John Ray r e a and uh you can raise your right hand you affirm to tell the truth the whole truth I did okay and you have testified before this board before yes I'm a licensed professional [Music] engine okay we will accept excuse me it didn't show up in Ben's letter why I didn't move it in traffic letter what was the DAT on that November 20th 2023 and uh John to just give the board a summary of this and recognizing the use variant we looked at excuse me the comparison between what a permitted use could generate here versus what we're proposing because we want to show that the benefits of our application out weigh any sure our our 11 unit apartment building will generate approximately 88 trips and by 8 car trips I'm talking about the total amount of traffic that would enter and exit the parking lot during the one highest peak hour of traffic flow on M Road during the morning and afternoon peak hours uh that would be a lower traffic impact than a lot of the permitted uses in the commercial Zone delicatessens uh convenience stores things of that nature so from a comparative standpoint The Proposal in my opinion uh is something that can be approved by the board without having an adverse and negative impact on traffic conditions because will generate less traffic than a commercial use and also while the county has the jurisdiction over the driveway just and we've made whatever changes they' required including the uh eement for potential Road lightning in your opinion is the access driveway in and out safe and efficient uh yes it is uh the site distance at that location Monmouth Road in that general area is pretty much level on straight and as long as we provide the side triangles that will be required by the count uh the access will be safe and efficient uh but I just want to say we took the study one step further we actually did a full traffic impact analysis we conducted morning and afternoon PE hour Accounts at the intersection of West Park Avenue and mon Road and from those traffic volumes we were able to get the peak hour morning and afternoon traffic volumes that were testing the site Frontage which our traffic exiting mouth Road would have to contend with in order to get out onto Monmouth Road safely and efficiently we so we looked at the existing P traffic counts they were done last fall on two separate days and we projected those traffic volumes to a design year of 2026 after Consulting the NJ Do's background traffic growth rate data for the area and then we conducted a level of service Capacity Analysis for the site driveway and I know the board served traffic testimony before but for the benefit of the public that may not have heard traffic testimony basically traffic engine years quantify how well a driveway or an intersection will operate uh by something we call levels of service they range from a which is the highest or best obtainable level of service to F which is the lowest generally speaking anything operating at level of service e or better is a condition that's acceptable uh the levels of service that I'm talking about relate to the average delay that motorists will experience exiting the site and getting out on Mon throw the good news is for the 2026 design year even with background traffic growth on M grow our driveway will operate at level of service a which is the highest or best defendable level of service during the morning and afternoon peak hours and John we recognize that and and no one's questioning that the intersection of West Park Avenue and MTH road is probably at a z at this point at at some point but it's it's probably based on my observations a b perhaps but not as but we we know that it's not good and anyone who goes there especially in the summer time it's very difficult but where your testimony is is because of the low intensity of traffic generation from our project we're actually going to affect it less than we would if it were from many this would have less of an impact on that location than a permitted commercial use and I I I am familiar with the intersection and there are certain cycles that are worse than a DAT but we don't have Z yet we haven't gotten it right and uh last ly with regard to the uh you took a look at the truck turning and you agree that the tra that the garbage truck can access the site safely yes and I believe Mr ward has in his site in his package that has been submitted to the board there's a truck turning template that shows the Refuge removal truck pulling in in a forward Direction picking up the trash from the trash room and then backing into the um part of the parking aisle that's on the south side of the project and that those movements can all be made and the truck can exit it on the on road the last thing I did look at uh was was the barking and as Mr Ward indicated under the rsis with the EV credits that we will be getting we are required to have SL paring spes under rsis we're providing 25 and the last thing I want to tell the board is I'm very confident we will have more than enough parking because R just came out with a study last fall uh that those was based on actual parking accounts that have been experienced all across the state and their conclusion was that the actual parking requirements for these types of facilities are substantially less than the rsis for example the rsis requires 1.8 parking spaces for a one-bedroom the record study found that the actual parking counts for a one-bedroom Unit were Clos to one but we exceed RSI that Ruckers thinks that everything is we still exceed it right and and I guess what I'm trying to say is at the end of the day my expectation is the Peak parking demand in the parking lot will be somewhere between 15 and 17 parking spaces realistically any questions to Mr yeah just about the summer I mean I know you conducted your study in the fall and I know you referenced it but realistically what what's the impactor in that Peak summer months those mon I'm I'm going to answer I've been living in uh mouth County for 37 38 years now I'm well aware of what the summer conditions are actually during the morning and afternoon Peak commuter hours the traffic volumes when schools are open are actually a little bit higher than the summer the weekend volumes are higher in the summer and some of the off peak hours are higher in the summer but because of the lack of school traffic particularly during morning peak hour some volumes are actually a little bit lower during PE hour but and and that's why I open with that I I've lived here my whole life and it's terrible I avoid it in the summer I I don't even go get a bagel in the mornings in the summertime because it's first it's too long of a line at the bagel place but second because it the traffic is so bad and the reason I raise that is is that we're not affecting that meaning we're not fixing that that's bad it's going to stay bad what I was trying to list it from John and I hope we got across was our as of right development would have a worse impact than what we're proposing I understand that but that's what I'm suggesting The Bagel line is terrible on the summer so the the traffic no question and we're not from right but if you're adding 11 units and then you're allowing parking for their guests it does impact it in in the summer and I understand you're not making a commercial use so you're suggesting that the residential use is less impactful but it's still I'm just thinking maybe have perhaps I'm not saying you have to I'm just thinking maybe less units than 11 I I don't know I don't know if that's the answer I'm just trying to understood engage in discussion that's all and and the applicant's position is we're entitled to a certain intensity of development if we were going to be required to bring it down under 11 because that's what works because remember two of them have to be affordable so we really only have nine market rate units here if we were required to bring it down we would have to look at what our commercial development would be to get a yield and that's going to have truck traffic that's going to have could be a doctor of it's going to be a lot more traffic so we're not here to tell you we're not going to affect it we're entitled to develop our property there will be an impact of traffic it's for lack of a better legal term it's crappy out there in the summertime in that area and we're not saying we're making it better but we're allowed to add traffic from a permitted use so what we're saying is is we're not going to do that we're going to make it less than what we're allowed to do and that's really the best that we we're proposing right and again like I said I'm just engaging in discussion and I like your very technical yeah thank fact of the matter is the summer traffic volumes the weekend volumes Beach traffic it's heavily pronounced during the you know Saturday and Sunday on night speech weekends uh and the lack of school traffic kind of makes up for all I'm saying understood so question you said that it's a level a yes what would be in in Ocean what would be a a Midway a Level D well that give the time for waiting for a versus the time for waiting for service a means the average person based on the amount of traffic that will generate during the morning and INF peak hours exiting on Comm Road would wait about 10 seconds average of delay some people may wait 15 some people may wait five but the average delay would be 10 about 10 seconds and that's just has to do with the Gap in the light it has to do with people giving you a courtesy weigh in it's just generally speaking generally it's based on the actual volumes passing the site driveway without really taking any credit for the fact that the traffic light at West Park Avenue will periodically provide gaps in Northbound traffic on Mon Road that's not even included in the analysis but but that's a fact and a Level D how long would you wait let's talk about Route 35 in West Park Avenue that's that's worse than the D that's in that trying to get across rout 35 that's you know to give you something comparatively speaking what's the SEC how many seconds is that R Serv F at a signalized intersection is greater than 80 Seconds of the light and for an un signalized intersection is 50 seconds it's two different measurements but I mean to give you I'm just trying to think of the worst intersection in town is probably 35 and West Parky but I think importantly John the level of service is only impacting the people leaving our site it's not the level of service at the intersection it's not the level of service on the roadway essentially it's how long our residents or their guests are going to have to wait to come and go from the site so it's it's not um I don't think that's true I think it's the community and the overall effect what the level of service a what he's referencing that number is the amount of time to leave our driveway we're not suggest all I'm suggesting is is excuse me okay got it I would never tell you something that isn't true Mr yes I know and again it's important because this is a use variance application probably the single most important thing that I have to do is a comparison between a permitted use and what's being proposed and it's a positive comparison with respect to traffic generation and that's I'm just pointing out for this Beal it's only with regards to leaving our site that it's levelite and really that's the only intersection we're required to study as part of this and entering the site yes the left turn movement entering the site has to deal with a gap in southbound traffic and that's also that's also DNA yes another question in Mr mattl let's report he mentioned um the need for a loading area is that needed no and that Tes too anyone who going to move in with any kind of moving Tru some would probably either pull up in the front could either PR pull up in the front parking lot for a short period of time or pull up right alongside the building the garbage truck will and we don't expect any any deliveries any Amazon is all going to be in a van that can use one of thees excuse me okay um any other questions from board members question sorry I have a question um traffic going in and out of the development the tree or is there um I believe there's going to be a sign there is the vision going to be impaired at all I I think that he had testified to that we're going to have to provide a sight triangle easement to the county which ensures that nothing over 30 in can be in that area that would block anybody's correct that's correct yeah the county W require a sight triangle in both Direction s uh want to get too technical it's measured 15 ft back from the edge of the travelway and it's based on the speed on MTH Road and we won't get a county approval of that side triangle thank you I'm sorry any other questions from board members okay questions from the public for uh Mr re if you can come to the microphone and state your name and your address hi my name iser and I live 100 I totally disagree with so many things you said getting out of brown place on the llas road isn't 10 seconds Miss topper just anything M toer just your questions questions at this point okay you'll have time at the end for um uh comments oh so I can't I mean because my question is you talked about the buses and whatever but the summer the summer camp buses are worse than the school buses and so you said oh the summer it won't have an impact when there's already traffic but you're talking about a bunch of Summer buses coming for collecting and that's a concern I understand do you have a question I disagree that it's any worse than a regular school day um as far as school buses are concern but but even if it were our development isn't adding to that yeah it would because the people living there would be hiring would be sending kids to Camp because that's what's happening in the community and so there will be more buses because every Camp has so many buses going and coming there will be a well missa do you have a question though at this point yes I'll come okay any other questions from the public okay questions from our experts I do have in your research did you come across any elevated rates of accidents or ve stream accidents in this area I did not do an accident analysis uh again you know most importantly probably because we're going to generate less traffic than a permitted use and um you know the level of the scope of the traffic studies really dependent upon how much traffic you're going to generate The Institute of Transportation engineers and the NJ do typically require a project to generate 100 peak hour trips before you would get into that level of detail we're at eight we fraction I I I probably took the study a bit further than I had to because the recommendation from the it is when you have less than 100 P hour trips you really just have to look at you know the site circulation the parking the driveway the access we did a little bit more than that but I not and one other followup question as it the camp even if assuming that again I think there was some assumptions in this top question one res are going K two all of the children are going to be at Camp age and three they're all going to go to camp but even assuming in the worst case scenario there are 11 Apartments where they go to camp in your experience living here uh and knowing how these bus throughs work and having represented camps and other schools they don't send individual buses or extra buses they have a bus route where it would be going that way anyway and it would make a stop on site potentially but it wouldn't necessarily be more buses for the amount of children that are being proposed here no and and without getting into it too much detail probably because I've been doing this for a long time I've done probably half dozen traffic studies for the summer camps and and you're right that use for the most part they use the large school buses and they have a roof and they pick up kids and sometimes the kids C a long way to get the camp but uh they don't normally send you know a small van out to pick up an individual person that'll be too expensive they use the big buses right but that's assuming that they is they use the big buses those big buses would be stopping right in front of the build the the Lots right we discuss this now like a school bus for example there would be a bus stop so would likely be across the street in one of the neighborhoods they wouldn't be able to stop right on the on the RO as I understand but they do the some of the camps they are they are door too they pick up right in front so if you have 11 units and these are all families let's say they go to four different camps you have four big yellow buses stopping right in front on West Park Avenue I mean you pay a lot of money to go to camps these camps pick up door to door that's what you pay for all I can say I I don't disagree with what you said but you can turn right the Ocean Township School transportation department I'm sure has school buses and stoping on the roow to pick up kids Ocean Township is not door to door trust me those are stops and they they actually they would never do it on West from the traffic perspective it's the same impact school bus stopping on Mon road is the school stopping on M Road I mean not West Park excuse me m road excuse me not to not to um not to diminish the concern because I understand the concern we have to look at this excuse me look at it comparatively first of all couple things first there may be big school buses but it may be for uh areas like this there may be smaller ones that come as it relates to certain neighborhood so we don't know the school buses definitely going to have to go across the street to the extent that there's buses stopped that's really an Enforcement issue with the police department whether or not the buses are allowed to stock on a on a main Highway like that it would be no different than if this was a retail store and a large truck came that couldn't facilitate through the site then they would be stopped on there it's not something that's permitted but it's something that could potentially happen so I think in this particular case we're lowering the intensity of what could be there and types of trucks that would be visiting there just a question go sorry I disagree I think can't fact listen I'm trying to balance everyone's interest that's all I mean trying to balance your client's interest and his right to develop and the community's interest and and their right to less traffic um camp in the summer you have eight weeks every single day of potentially four buses I just threw that number out stopping Monday through Friday if you're getting deliveries for a commercial property once a week twice a week and sometimes in the evening it's not every day four buses 8:00 a.m. and every day 400 p.m. four buses stop in 8 weeks in the summer respectfully I think that some of what you're suggesting is incredibly speculative as to the number of buses absolutely number deliveries you we met with your Township planner residentials allowed here so as a permitted use the the residential component is allowed so the school buses would be there anyway because it's a conditionally permitted use however the difference is we're not also mixing in the commercial we're not also mixing in the uh location of a trash enclosure we're not also mixing in the coming and going the night use potentially it could be a restaurant it could be be uh something that goes on to late hours so again we came in with a mixed use that had residential on top and had the the commercial on the bottom we changed it based on a request from your Township planner who in his opinion who was hired to look out for the community felt that this is a far better zoning alternative and I mean if you read his report I think it's pretty clear so well I recognize it that your concerns are valid you have to look at it in the grand scheme of things as to all of the effects for the community and the gentleman I know he's not sitting here I know uh it's on him but the gentleman who you know the township pays to look out for their interest has felt that this was the best alternative another question I apologize if you answer it the level a is that whether you turn left or right on to mam it's a it's what we call a weighted average of course the left turn would have more delay than the right turn it might be seconds for a left turn and 5 Seconds for a right turn so could be 25 seconds for left and 2 seconds for right it's a weighted average it's it's an average of the left and the right and because we have one we have one lane coming out if we had separate left and right turn Lanes you could do a cal calculation separately for each turning lane but because we have one lane it's a weighted average okay and I'm not I'm not sure actually who to POS the question too but would would it be better to have a right turn only I'm not sure who could answer that County who would decide that and they they did not feel that that was necessary is that correct I don't know if we okay they would be the ones that would regulate the in Andress and and the big problem with restricting a left turn movement is where do people make u-turns sometimes the alternative is far worse okay I'm just just curious just throwing after okay um yes please go to the microphone state your name and address Joseph address 101 Mar please um I don't know if who to really POS this question to but um so on the to school buses obviously can school is also the concern and it was said before that um you know backing up the beefing for trucks to try to avoid that but we know buses have the same issue um well my question is um how how can you guarantee that the bus won't stop on ground place or outside of that zone to kind of load the buses for the kids cuz that ground place is really the entry there is my concern um we we can't speak to what public streets are us I mean it's a public Street just like if your children went to Camp the bus could come toor the bus to come to Brown and and pick up your kids I can't control what happens on public Street you know that the c c certainly consider something but it's a public Street the bus would have the right to be there like any bus or Amazon or delivery so you I mean again you can't guarantee what type of residence you have whether they have children or not so no that would be against the law we're not allowed to discriminate against families that's totally fine um are you um I guess my question is uh sorry try gather my thoughts here um as far as the residential versus the commercial so now again guaranteeing that there's going to be a little bit have you weigh out your measurements based on the addition of buses or any variables that public uh commercial versus residential yes yeah commercial is I I went through what the commercial uses and the truck deliveries could be just as substantial if not more substantial than any school bus traffic and um we know you don't agree we know yeah I not that I don't agree I just and timing could you could you give the difference could you the difference on how long somebody would wait or how long the traffic would be can I can I break something down if it's okay with you from a lay standpoint because I think he's confusing you some so again doesn't matter what our use is our use could be the busiest place on the planet the wait time has nothing to do with what our uses or how much traffic we're generating as much as it has to do with what's happening on the road roadway when there's going to be gaps so for an office for example which I think is permitted in the zone an office use if we're an office use a medical office use and there's 10 employees and closing time happens and it's 5:30 and they all leave at once well then their waight time is going to potentially be longer sitting in our driveway but again that has no impact on the traffic it's just a matter of how many cars are going out there so the wait time only affects our residents it doesn't affect the roadway what affects the roadway is the number of cars that we're going to be adding to it during what they call the peak hour so that's the distinction so the weight time doesn't affect you as a passer by the weight time only affects someone leaving our site and and just to go one step further because he said his comparison with commercial because commercial is the most intense from a traffic standpoint right John but ordinance permits mixed use which allows both apartments and Commercial which we didn't go so in that scenario you have the commercial traffic and the bus traffic but we just went to the most intense and I hope that that way people's terms explain doesn't mean you're happy it but it explains no I just joh the way I described it was accurate you've heard a lot of traffic engineering testimony over the years yes not just me good evening my name is Chris bford and I live at Sunny ground place so my question goes to the fact to the survey like Mrs L mentioned was you did the study in November at the the deadest time of the year why was there not a study done I would disagree with that based on the NJ Do's um seasonal um you don't disagree with it so you're not explaining it corly it's it's November certainly not the best and neither John did you apply a seasonal adjustment for I did not have to and if you did would your conclusions change with regard to recognizing how busy it can be in no my conclusions would not change the camps were done in October and September when schools were open and there are certainly not de times in the year not by one shot so as you you've lived in the town many years I that street for 30 years this year and the busiest time of the year is and mid May to the end of September but more so the main part of the traffic issue is Labor Day I mean Memorial Day to Labor Day why was not the studies done at that time because there's no need to in first of all let me back up to the single most important thing in use Vance application which is our proposal will generate less traffic than a permitted commercial use that is fundamental to understanding what I needed to do in this case I took it a step further and did the traffic analysis it really wasn't called for for something as small as this for something that's going to generate 8p CA tricks I went above and beyond what I normally have you might have G above and beyond but let me ask you if I may ask him a question clarify what you're saying is is that even if the traffic here with at a stand still in the summertime we're entitled as a r of right to develop this property and because of that it would generate a certain amount of traffic and what you're saying is is that what we're proposing whether it's terrible or it's not terrible the Deb of winter and the summer what we're proposing is going to be less of an impact than what could go there under a permitted use absolutely if I hadn't make made that perfectly clear I I hope I and we and you weren't required and I think what you're saying is you weren't required to study the roadway because again based on the nominal amount that we're adding even in the worst conditions it couldn't have any kind of appreciable impact on that road absolutely thank you now my other question is is your study about a b c d e whatever it is is a right so you now have 20 cars going in and out we cannot even your time frame you're saying is what less than three for minute 3 seconds whatever it was we have to wait the traffic backs up just to get on the brown place so now you're going to put one car coming in to there we can potentially calling in there and we wait we can wait up to 10 minutes to turn because the traffic light is backed up and now we've got two sets of traffic going trying to make turs I get it you have the right to develop no that what I what I was going to suggest was just I wanted to clarify something because you didn't share it the peak hour that you talked about is from when to when in the afternoon I think I'll do morning and afternoon just how you your last e i n f o r g and because Miss hour in the morning on month Road in this area while actually going through the intersection or West Park Avenue in month road is 7:30 to 8:30 that's the one highest pick hour concentrated flow in the in the morning so in that hour our site is going to add eight cars and it's not necessarily eight cars at once it's eight cars over the course of the hour that and not all eight cars will go through the intersection Park Avenue any traffic that's coming soon from the north when can go through the inter maybe four cars and I just want understand eight cars that we're talking about is over an hour so it could be one car and then it could be 10 minutes later another car then a minute later another car and 10 minutes later two cars so it's not as if you're saying eight cars are coming in and out all at once exactly it's eight cars during the peak hour and again some of that traffic will probably be coming to and from the north and wouldn't even go through the intersection so you're probably looking at four or five cars in an hour going through the intersection as a result of this development so you're talking about one car every 12 minutes and what was the other peek hour uh the afternoon is 4: to 5: p.m. 4 to 5 4 to 5 and what's the number of cars the morning was less than the the morning was 989 cars going through the inter no no no what's the number of cars that are coming out of our site eight cars during both the morning and afternoon PE and the is it eight trips meaning yeah and let me let me go through the end and again the reason I'm asking the eight cars doesn't mean eight cars coming out necessarily right right let me go through the numbers uh during the morning peak hour there would be two inbound trips six outbound trips of course people are going to work going to school so you'd expect more people leaving than coming in two inbound six outbound for a total of eight the afternoon Fe hour five inbounds three outbounds total eight okay then we put in the mixture of buses so by you doing that your your November traffic analysis you missed in that 7 to 8:00 time frame you've missed Park uh buses coming up and down the street as to my my neighbors had alluded to like there's other bus companies and M Miss lman also agreed to it is that I don't I you didn't agree you ask the question ask the question that there are multiple bus companies coming in and out whether it's during the school year or during the summer now we have our public school and then we're increasing it for the other so would you think doing your study your traffic study during that time frame would have changed your numbers we did do a traffic study during that time frame schools were open and we record every school bus the summer there were more school buses going through the intersection on a school day I'm trying to answer a question I'm yelling at my not you no problem she's done that so if I may yes even if you did it in the summer and the traffic was much worse than it was when we did it in September assuming not saying it would be but assuming because there's more buses or the peak hours change a little bit will that change the number of cars coming in and out of our site absolutely not no so again our impact on the traffic is not changing correct and I think that's what we're trying to come here to say I when I'm raised here I live one town over now I'm here all day every day my office is here I recognize it and a lot of times you ways around having to go to that intersection during the peak hours but we live on a dead street so it's on the corner of yeah but that's what I'm saying we are a dead in street we only have one way in and one way out understood thank you Mr reinstein want to go back to Mr to clarify this is a commercial Zone yes correct okay in your expert opinion is the traffic generated by this proposal less than what a commercial use would entail yes because commercial uses would entail things like trucks would uh certainly a Convenience St like deliveries yeah a delicate permitted is yes so you have to weigh that out now this is for the board but if I help the public that's fine that's what we the main thing for you on this particular case is to understand what the ordinance has already you may not like the proposal or whatever but if the tra the testimony of this expert and you find it credible that his he's testifying that the traffic gener generated will be less than what a permitted use is in this Z and that really is that that simplifies it I mean s you may not like the impact or whatever but for this particular aspect that's what you have to and I think what's important and I just ask the board and the public to remember we're not required to fix what is not a good situation and we get that it's not a good situation out there um you know we just have to not be as bad as what could be permitted and I know that's horrible for someone who lives there and I understand that but really when you look at is there a benefit to this use versus a permitted use you have to look at what the impacts are and traffic is one but there's a lot of other also that I think the planner is going to get into uh which would include you know the late night time the noise the smell the traffic if it was a restaurant things like that that the that the plan would get to so yes this is a very big issue but I just ask everybody to keep in in their in their in their minds that it's more than just that one issue so that was Mr Higgins Ro is if what you said earlier and obviously he's not here but basically the original plan was submitted and through consultation he I don't want to say he said no but basically he said no okay so he said no and this was the best of scenarios we would we would be permitted to put in fully commercial with no residential and he was not for that either because of the limited size of the site because of the fact that we have to put trash enclosures by the neighbors because potentially we now have trash trucks coming back and forth by then there's undoubtedly going to be deliveries um with backing up on and off site and there is no ordinance that requires that it can't be open to you know midnight or you know even overnight it could be 24 hours like the 7-Eleven because of all of that he came to us we wanted to do the commercial that was our original application and he basically said he can't support it and as you know and I've only been coming here for 25 years um and Jim's been here the entire time if Jim is against something okay it's very unlikely that this board is going to go f over his objection just I'm stealing a little bit from our cry square but you know when they talked about they said sometimes the emphasis can get in this place I think when the testimony of the planner comes here that's really going to be the key I mean traffic is part of it he's got ify why this site is uniquely for they proposing that's that's their standard and U you know I'll comment further on that but um all Abes in general have negative impacts that's why we got the negative criteria zoning contemplates this so again for this narrow Focus I think that you have to weigh what he says that it's just it's just less than what the ordin contemplates for this particular Zone now Mr later on will talk about why site what's site that a residen uses propos rather than what is pered and then you know he'll talk about the unique site condition because variances should always be unique to the land the parel itself okay not seeing any other questions from the public question you're saying this is 11 Apartments we expect eight PE hour trips that's B on the it data yes for this development correct something similar in size if it was a store G place or a full supply store how many peak hour trips ballpark would you expect for something a convenience store could be uh you know 7-Eleven or something like that could be up to 100 P hour trips I don't know about a pool store but a convenience store a delicates I'm looking could certainly be 50 or 60 Pak hour trips um Medical Dental offers could be 25 530 P hour trips these were all permitted used as a restaurant depending on what kind of restaurant it could be it could be very busy could be 50 P hour could be a bagel store could be Bagel I'm bringing Bagels to the next now okay thank you I'm getting old as I used to she's going to tell you what her last name is because I'm [Music] not Mali m a l e l l a r i you said malori R okay have youn in and if you can raise your right hand do you affirm to tell the Pro the whole truth I do okay have you you've testified before this board yes okay and and unlike me you have a much quieter voice so I need you to open the microphone up [Music] CL we on yes wonderful good evening everyone uh I want to start off with the uh front sheet which is the front rendering of the proposed building you have three story structure here you see the parking in the front this is the main entrance right at the center of the building we have a large format stone for post with st to on both sides and a a wood fiber cement in the center and this is that side parking area and I also have an image um looking from the back Corner kind like a North West Corner this is a side facade where you see some balconies and again that stone uh large format Stone wrapping around the base with the stule around um the structure and before you move up the color renderings this is intended to be a high-end development correct correct the types of materials that are proposed are the materials that we would be committing to if the board approv this correct um while we're on this and before we go over along the the roof line we see a slight protrusion uh that extends out half far it's about 6 in okay so we essentially have a 6 in E for lack of a better word correct all around the building and that is purely for architectural reasons that's correct um and the reason I say this is is because as this board knows anything under a roof counts as building coverage so that 6 in surround that's purely for Aesthetics kicks us just over the building coverage permitted without that if we had a square less attractive Building without this architectural feature we would be fully compliant on building coverage so as you're going to hear from the testimony from the uh when he comes back as the planner we think it's a better zoning alternative to have this architectural feature and it's technical in nature because the building size meaning the volume of the building irrespective of this overhang meets the building coverage requirement that's correct otherwise you'd have what's called flat carit and you don't won't have like this end Crown to the building they just don't look right and it's and it's decorative purely purely decorative kind of gets the end to the top of the building let's talk about what's going to be in the building so this is a just a 2d elevation while I showed you the 3D renderings of the front the side facade this is where that trash room door is in the recessed Al Cove and then there's a tenant door so while the um trash staff is picking up the trash the tenants have their own separate door on top of their main front door and then you have the side and the rear elevations for the building let's go back how tall is the building the building is 40 ft tall and it's actually measured to the elevator bulkhead um otherwise it's 38t t to the top of the parit okay and that would be permitted for height in the C1 Zone as as we're going to hear from the AR from the planner correct so I have a couple information here so I do have the parit detail that 6 in overhang on the upper right corner for you to see it for that crown that this is sheet A3 sheet A3 but let me walk you through the floor plan on the right side let's go through the first floor on the front is where you have the entrance Door um you enter and your elevator is right there on the right there's also a tenant lobby area for waiting as you proceed further down this is where you have a residential hallway so they can come out to the parking lot area and there's that other door for the trash room so the tenants have the opportunity to drop their trash from their own door without having to go outside whereas the trash staff comes in just from that double door and then there's also a separate mail package room and we have three units here uh two two bedrooms and one three bedroom we also have that basement area which is the multip room there's a storage area and a gym all these are amenities for the tenants um on the upper portion of the drawing we also show the um compliance complying signs there's a building sign with the address and the freestanding uh sign which is up corner the LW that had already right and and I think importantly if again the size of the building itself right we're not seeking any variance relief as compared to if it was a mixed use the only difference being that we're taking in retail out correct I just I just a question in Jin's original report he says what's permitted here is soon half St 35 ft right as it relates to the um as it relates to permitted principal uses there but the conditional use does allow 40 ft restores in the stone is not correct this isight right but what we're talking about is what would be committed in the Z if we were to just put the retail back other words function yeah I mean if we put the retail back we'd be allow 40 ft 3 and again our building size doesn't require any setep back relief doesn't require any coverage relief except for that um Tex feure on it so while it may be bigger than what else also in that area it's what the governing body decided is appropriate here I'm going proceed to the next floor PL which are identical your second and third floor you have two three families and two two families on either side um we have the roof plant this is where the elevator btad comes out um and all the uh mechanical equipment with roof access for maintenance but we don't have any roof access for roof deck or any kind of uh this is only a roof hatch for maintenance to get up and service the condensers in the roof basically um and then we just showing a a blow up for each unit type to to show the sizes and um the layout for each apartment basically and that concludes the arit questions from board members what's the Florida ceiling height VAR the basan is at 10 the first four is at 12 and the upper two levels are at 9 any other yes maybe I missed this but are these rnal or you s no they're going to be r i mean they're going to have to stay under the affordable housing it is to be one or the other so if we commit to again the this board doesn't regulate the difference between rentals or condos but we have to make a decision because it's going to depend on how it's de restricted for affordable housing will it be stacked there at all blank I don't know an office it would be up to the property manager it's going to be it's going to be up to the owner as to who's uh who's going to be there but there's a facility right now for unit manager that no it's a straight 11s um two of which be governed by requirements in some man right so we talking about not units that market and the other two complying right and again that's as you're going to hear from the plan that is one of the benefits of the application is that you're getting the benefit of the affordable housing which we all recognize is something that's being promoted through at New Jersey so if this were purely commercial you would not be getting the benefit of that uh the west side of the building on the second page this this is probably a question it's not actually blue it matches the white that's just the rendering dusk on the renderings you get like the shadow to make sure going match the rest of the building can I just say Jen you keep saying miss crico you can call me Jen everybody else here does you keep keep saying commercial but you were were not you were denied the application to be commercial we weren't denied we never came before you right because what we said was is that if we were the mixed use commercial Jim would be against it but if we came in as full commercial with nothing we would go to the planning board and the planning board would have no ability to deny because it would conform to the use and everything else so what we're saying is and again I'm giving but his intent he wanted the both use which is why you came here understood the the preview that I'm trying to give to the board is is that even if there are things about this application that you prefer otherwise and you're going to hear through the testimony it's our opinion and your planner's opinion that this really is the best Zing alternative at because the application before you is for this size with this number of units so again it's not a negotiation of well could you go down could you make the building smaller we believe we're going to make our case for this and it'll ultimately be up to the board if the board denies it then we still have the option obviously coming in for something conforming to the planning board or something else that may ultimately not be as good of an alternative as your planner seems to think this is okay yeah maybe clarify why uh the plan why Mr Higgins was concerned about his particular site and having a commercial aspect to yeah it was because of the residence as I me he was really seeking to just aord yeah no he was seeking to protect he was seeking to protect the residential behind us obviously if if it was commercial all around us it would his concerns wouldn't be so significant and I asked that for the public too so they understand this has been you know ongoing process process and that was the thinking he was thinking about those houses I just want to understand I just want to make sure I understood something you said if this was a mixed use building it would have to come in front of his board not necessarily only if they were looking for a variance only if we were looking for okay so and I didn't we never came and presented it because rather than fight Jim and and I'm not saying we wouldn't have won ultimately either here or Court I'm just saying we took a path of less resistance than fighting Jim is it's a addal use if we met all of the conditions we go to the planning board if we don't meet all of the conditions we come here so we were coming here because there were some conditions relative to Landscaping that we could have made and that's the same thing with a commercial building too no commercial building would not come here unless we needed a use variant under any some type of variance that's no not some type of variance the only type of variance that comes here is a d variants so if we were permitted us and we needed setbacks or coverages or anything else all planning the only reason we would come here is a floor air ratio a height a density and a non-permitted use and or a condition use and if they met all the conditions to get your no no no we still have to get that's planning board if they meet all the conditions if they don't meet all the conditions of the mixed use that they want to put here set back you something then they got to come here and your testimony was at 40 ft excuse that that D3 condition not okay any other questions from board members questions from the public please go yeah did she said she she flipped her last page I did see a blank page when she went to the next one if you can state your name and your address he should only be questions to the AR it's a question to the architect yeah because I learned a lesson already I'm sorry I didn't understand the last time I was a PR no it was only people were only invited up at the end so I thought if there was any concerns about that testimony um my name is Gail toer I'm at 100 Marcy place and I just have a question about the balconies and privacy in all of our houses that are right behind that like that concerns me is that somebody's on the third Flor and they're looking into our backyards and they're hanging out on the balcony and so we did provide a balcony for all of the units so the two units in the back there's still the the uh kids playground in the back before they could look out to your backyard but we we strongly feel that they should have an opportunity to have a bit of fresh air and go outside in the balcony which is why the were what is the size of the balcony they think they are [Music] it's by 6t and I guess so so they're not big enough that people are going to hang out and table there you put a table on okay thank you how many are in the back two twoing in the back you have so just two units no if you follow the color the Orange is one unit the gray one here is I know but that's only one story so over the three stories there's two on each one and you're putting some trees there as well correct also comes up can offer the distance between the back of that building and the property line is pretty signicant any other questions from the public okay thank you ask lot of what he's going to say [Music] yes he doesn't have to be sworn in as the planner does he no he was to T to testify tonight okay tell the truth thank you Mr steber okay so we are here before the zoning ad just because of the D1 use VAR which you've heard before uh throughout the testimony tonight so give you a little background I'll repeat myself on a few points just to get the record in but the C1 Zone which we're in conditionally permits mixed use inclusionary development which means commercial on the first floor residen units on the upper floors or in the rear of the first floor we're proposing a fully multi family residential building with no commcial component so PR our discussions with Mr Higgins leading up to this meeting we removed the commercial component and that was in order to reduce any perceived impact from a commercial use adjacent to our residential neighbors to the West well this is a D1 variance and we need to prove site suitability we don't see an issue with this at all what we're proposing essentially the same as a conforming mixed use building which is simply reduce the intensity of the use and that and because of the size of the building I'm sorry the size of the lot and its proximity to the residential behind and your king that's what makes this particularly suited as opposed to commercial because of the index that's exactly right so we remove the commercial component so the site will function even better we talked about that already my testimony and some of the other testimony we feel that this site has laid out functions better as strictly multif family rather than having a commercial component think a commercial component not only at traffic but also can interrupt the function of the site and also the impacts that D will get to in the moment the only difference here is what's in The Bu that's a fully residential and again our original application it was mixed that it was an office building it actually looked the same the only difference is we took away the retail signage that footprint and the side the the the massing of the building was is exactly the same maybe some color changes but in addition talk about the location and we we like the location of the project for multif family because we're proposing 11 units right next to the existing Corridor of m road where it Patrick when you say we like you're not speaking on behalf of the applicant like it you're speaking on behalf from a professional planning perspective why the site is particularly suited corre for residential it will feed into the commercial Corridor and it could be a pedestrian availability where you have houses that could walk to the the and 7 times for the bagel store or any of those other commercial uses there as opposed to having to dve right so this is planning strategy 101 populate to walk commercial neighborhoods any pop that multif family residential uh units it helps the business district dve and succeed and this is specifically mentioned in the town transfer plan which we'll get to in a moment we have some Vol C variances and before we go into just to point out technically in the technically confront of Mark when you need a D1 use variance as a case or Supreme Court case called price versus AI where it basically says since the use itself is not permitted as a principally permitted use the underlying zoning can't really apply because it wasn't intended for it so it's really subsumed into the use bar so while we're giving testimony as to how this would comply If This Were a fully permitted use or conditionally permitted use it's really as it goes to the negative impact as opposed to what's technically meeing these both par I would agree it's myv Cas and the wording they use actually assuming that that was the Poo case I stand correct price price Supreme Court I think they were a little stubn on this they don't want to use the words assum so they use an a board can consider it an with the but again the testimony that we're giving is to compare it to what is permitted here and how we differ whether the pered ju or conditionally committed and I'm sure I'm sure planner will testify to the specific C variances regardless of the of of the ancillary nature correct because he's going to make he's going to make his record correct I would do yeah and actually was about to do why I interrupted him because I just want to point out to you that we're going to give you all of this testimony but under that Supreme Court case it technically is not subsumed but ANC and the reason I say that faor because there's another clause in t talk about they said that his zoning board uh would should not determine a property is particularly suited because it's the most suitable site in the municipality you should be appropriate especially beneficial based upon the unque conditions of the site I said I was just going to jump into the the bulk variances or the C variances associated with so go through I'll identify each one and describe a little more as to you know what we're proposing and why so we have a Max lot coverage where it's supposed to be 27% of the buildable lot the max lot coverage for this particular commercial district is the building only right so remember is 27% of the building lot area we're slightly over that at 27.8% this equates to about 133 ft of additional building coverage which feel is the minous it's important to note that the building itself the foot of the building at the ground floor is 27% of the coverage it's EES that were referenced before create the additional point8 we the team and myself we I feel it's a better plan to includ these architectural elements for aesthetic reasons the board if you want to see report it's all here yes you can get a better picture um yeah they're enumerated in Report with some commentary as certain effect open space they do not so LW coverage controls are put in place for two reasons Aesthetics and runoff the running runoff as we described earlier in the engineering testimony our storm water management system significantly reduces the r r from the subject property which is a benefit regarding Aesthetics tful and comprehensive landscape design all long to do for architectural design of the building will create an exceptional aesthetic an amazing streetcap which will also be maximum building in this Zone 2 and2 stories and 35 p is permitted now we touch on this before we're proposing three stories and to the roof is 34.5 ft so we're conforming for height and feet and [Music] we're it's here stor andos is that a typo is has that been changed I think the testimony was that the building the building is 38 ft 40t to the should be I'm not sure can we C the elevator you know what will what I can tell now what there's a couple things the 34.5 is to the rooftop there is then a parit on top of that which is what takes you up to the 38 right uh so 46 to the top of the roof structure just talking to the microphone okay so from average grade we have 30 foot fo 6 to the top of the roof which is really a line right at the bottom here then we have the high parit here then we have an additional that the elevator B above that top of entirety of the building is not at that 4 it's just that one building and and when you say it's from average grade where is our fin floor relation to average and I point outar measuring height from Finish floor and this one accessible at the same level so the report is accurate it says 2 and2 and 35 and 3 ft and 40 okay 40 being at the max to the elevator but the majority of it is lower right so we're we're seeking the variance for the third story not the actual physical building Fe well no we are think I I have I have the answer 212 [Music] is mechanical per systs air conditioning and feeding units and elevator shall not exceed the height limit of more than 6 ft and shall be SC in the m so they can go 6t above so we can actually go to 41 so the elevator is comp and accept as well [Music] oh yes the provisions of this chapter shall not apply to prevent the erection above the building height Li of a parid wall [Music] or so the building is at 342 ft so we actually are comping 34.5 345 so we're under the allowable height the the they don't count so we're so I stand corrected Patrick was 100% correct and I was wrong um we meet the height requirement which is the Ming of the building it's just a matter of how many floors we have under that height that's we were supposed to go forward in February so and I don't think I don't think the next question the number stories becomes a de can't it has to be 10% it can't be 10% number of stories that's just there's actually discussion in Cox on that they said there are if you don't regulate by then in theory if you only regula by stories if can goove 10% you be at 6 but since you regulate both is so that what will trigger stories but again we technically need the variance because that's what's allowed for permitted uses we not a permitted use and there are conditionally permitted uses that are allowed to be 40ts and three stories which we need so again it's just I apologize we're at 342 ft in height the [Music] or okay so I'm going to move on to the side I get you also do that you can put three stories within the height requir that's the point yes that we we meet the physical height requirement but still provide three stories can I ask a question on that sure so the three stories would Beed if there's retail on the bottom correct but you need to variance it there going to be near retail so if there's only a twostory building so again if it was retail on the bottom we would be three stories but again we're not that that doesn't apply and neither does the permitted uses because there is no regulation for this use because it's a d variant so just by way of comparison we comply with the height under the conditional use standards and the bulk standards we comply the number of stories under conditional use so again it's an ancillary relief as to the underl zoning but the underline zoning wasn't designed for this use and Mr Higgins letter goes into this and he tried to find a comparable Zone because you can do that you see but he said really for this particular use there is no comptable zoning so he stuck with SE the underly but again Mr lki it's just for the number of stories it's not for the height okay the next B fa is sidey set back to the parking lot we propose 7.53 ft on the North side4 Ft on the south side where 10 ft is required the landscape plan focuses on these areas as you can see and buffers them heavily the Southside property line is a small area of approachment for the little turnaround there at at the end of that parking bank and the north side property line is nearly complying at 7.5 ft the landscape design will make these parking areas and their encroachments imperceptible the parking St size we're proposing 9 by8 parking spaces where the ordinance requires 10 by8 but this application is 100% residential development which means the RSI standards govern at 9 by8 parking So the plan is complying for parking lots all size with rsis the parking set back to the RightWay we're proposing 15 ft for 25 ft as depart for One Bank of parking our other Bank of parking complies at 25 ft so what what that means when I said Banks of parking we have the little parking area in front and then we have the area on the North side the area on the North side meets the 25 set back but the five spaces facing M Road in the front that's where our relief is saw I think it's important here to look at believe it's [Music] A6 and what you can see here is that our parking area is consistent with or better than some of the other developments on on road some of these developments have parking right on the right way as you can see we feel we're better than or consistent with much of the development and importantly in the board planner's letter he indicates that he has no concerns with the parking right and our landscape plan as you can see focuses on this area we provideed a substantial buer to mouth Road for headlight screening and for the attracting streetcap there's also another benefit to this by moving the parking forward to the the front property line the subject property we're able to move it away from the res neighbors to our West so we actually are focusing we're trying to focus the parking towards the front which again is more of the impactful use of the property towards the front towards MTH road to keep it away from the Neighbors at the rear uh just for PR reference an earlier iteration of this plan show the building right up on M Road and all the parking in the back so we're taking all that parking and concentrating which would have been conforming I think theard step back in the zone is 5 ft correct so we could have put the building on the front another variance is location of the curve cut so the ordinance requires curve cuts to be located in the middle third of the subject property Frontage I'm going to p a [Music] second but this property means that the curve cut must be at least 41 ft in from each side property line what we here is a property that's only 120 ft wide we're proposing a curve cut 5.12 ft from the side property line this was also a waiver that we obtained from M County planning board already we designed the driveway with a standard width of 24 ft and we provideed minimum curb radius to accommodate the garbage truck so as a result our curb cut is 65 ft wide the entire property Frontage is 12325 Ft wide which means we could never comply with the location of the curb Cuts ordinance requirement uh I'm this type of lot even if the use were permitted building site design would virtually be the same it would still require this variance so this application in my opinion furthers the following purposes of planning purpose say this is an appropriate use in development which promote the general welfare this use and development fits very nicely into this neighborhood and the site suits it very well one of the great benefits of this application is providing more population in an established walkable retail neighborhood help support the local businesses in L Ro this application also provides more housing options in a very very desirable town and when you say more housing options additionally it provides the affordable housing which as we know has been recognized as a benefit by our cour that's correct and our statute right all this together promotes the general welfare purpose be this application secure safety from flood panic and other natural manade disasters the stone water management system has been testified to capture and manage another run off which helps secure safety from flood Pur see this application provides adequate light air and open space this very same building and site design could accommodate a permitted mix development and the setbacks and the height would be compliant so the bulk of our plan meets the intend of your ordinance which provides adequate light air and open space as I mentioned before purpose e this application promotes the establishment of appropriate appropriate population densities and concentrations that will contribute to the wellbeing of persons neighborhoods commun ities and regions preservation of the environment this purpose is Advanced by providing housing and an existing walkable retail labor purpose G application provides sufficient space and appropriate locations for residential uses again this is an ideal location for a multif family Residential Building it's a mixed use neighborhood including residential uses with lot of walkable retail purpose ey this application promotes a desirable visual environment the architect and Landscape AR that prepared exceptional designs that will enhance the Aesthetics of the neighborhood purpose Jing this application prevents urban sprawl and degradation of the environment through improper use of land we're providing 11 residential units as infill development this by Nature helps prevent Urban sprl we feel this application conserves property values in the neighborhood based on the designs I believe this is going to be going to be the most attractive neighborhood along this stretch attractive property along this stretch of M Road this is going to benefit the entire neighborhood and conserve if not increased property values as for the negative criteria in short I don't see any negative impacts from this project and let me just correct you it's not that you don't see negative impacts you don't see any negative impacts that wouldn't otherwise be realized by a permitted use that's correct okay because as was offer and testified to by the board planner every development has a negative impact the question is does it rise to the level substantial does it outweigh all the benefits see can I stress one word yeah substanti yeah when you go into it substantial right substanti suban it's like you read ahead in the outl we get there yeah I get I just want to make sure that that's how I always say that's the threshold that's the key word substantial but that's why I that's why I interrupt them because we can't say there's no negative impacts because any development has a negative impact it has to be a negative impact not already contemplated by the ordinance and so substantial that it out weighs the benefits correct so we proposed the mix use development the building in the site could remain exactly as designed today we would just be swapping out space on the first floor for a commercial use the commercial nature of this neighborhood is already established and could benefit from more residents as customers eliminating the commercial component of the proposed development reduces the potential for adverse impacts for residential neighbors to the west and Road in the trafficing area and Road yep and that that goes into my next point the intensity of the use is reduced daily activity is reduced there's less traffic there's less loading required anymore and deliveries it was for own from a food service and an and an exterior treas and next year Y and that goes hand in hand with that food service as well that can be very impactful we're consistent with the intent of your ordinance to provide residential units it's nearly the ground level commercial that's omitted here we're consistent with your ordinance for building h we had a commercial component we would actually conform with that third floor well actually we' be much less we' be we'd be six and have 5 and2 ft under what would be permitted correct the parking design is pull forward and away from our residential neighbors to the West which we feel is a benefit which I feel benit the curb cut provides better circulation within the site and doesn't impact any neighbors our neighborhood to the to the north is a medical office Mr pointed out earlier the driveways on Brown place not m road so there's no conflict with that and used as driveway with our driveway in my opinion site circulation works very well the landscape design is substantial and provides great visual buffer around the entire perimeter subject property the purposes outline in the township 2023 master plan Mir the purposes of planning from the municipal land law for PL so in that regard this application is consistent with the master plan the application also consistent with a recommendation in your master plan on page 80 in the land use plan section the master plan says quote the intersection of West Park Avenue MTH Road no Cur consists of a number of stores many of which are under parked it is recommended that a comprehensive plan be prepared that will provide adequate parking for all uses in this area and encourage pedestrian movements between commercial sites so that the area becomes a vibrant neighborhood commercial area we're consistent with this recommendation for a couple of reasons first we're fully Park as a matter of fact we have five additional Extra Spaces for visitors second this property is connected for pedestrians to walk from this development throughout the existing commercial area in the neighborhood so we're fully consistent with this recommendation of the master plan the proposed development would not cause substantial detriment of the public good nor would it substantially impair the intent and purpose of the Zone plan the master plan zoning ordance so at this point bring up the word substantial and does any of the impacts of this application rise to the level of substantial in this case in my opinion they do not that's what the board has to Le when they're looking at the impacts of the development just to touch upon one final thing with regard to the med criteria for the use variance I believe we provided proofs to support your finding that the proposed use is substantially consistent with the master plan Z ordinance and that were able to reconcile granting the use varing in light of the use as a mission and being considered permitted in the ordinance so on balance is my opinion that the benefits of this application substantially outweigh EX any give more the ability to approve this application with confidence CL by direct testimony the garbage how many times it would just depend on the need it would be private so it would just be depending on the need it they would be able to schedule it and it would be in off hours and obviously wouldn't be during peak hours with it be traffic any other questions Mr on the board I question um some stuff in Mr hiin report but I'm curious I didn't hear you C on the landscape area along the front side and rear of the property looks like you took care of a suggestion on the southern side where you didn't have any uh coverage and you're putting papers in that location now correct one of the questions also that I asked the architect is why aren't we why aren't we Landscaping it and the reason being that you can is we have to have egress access so we can't have Landscaping them but we're doing the papers we're doing the papers to make it attractive correct and then on the I guess the west side of the property it says uh I guess it doesn't really address the left side you have the I guess you have enough room on the left side because you have the playground correct and the yes and also we will agree with the four in of mulch already agree with the um sprinkler subject to where Jim thinks it's appropriate any other questions from board members [Music] or liced landscape architect no we actually submitted it by liced landscape AR so we're receiving that waiver that that one's gone and you the only wa any other questions just um one one item here uh actually it goes to the master plan was recently adopted last time it was here the master plan so um sometimes a timing issue we talk about what the ordinance says and in your professional opinion has been enough time for really this council is job support planning board adops master plan and the council take recommendations so in your opinion has there been enough time between the 2023 adoption and to act on some of the recommendations of this plan you know this it's more like since the master plan was adopted we in April 2024 I would say yes just want to CL one other item when you and I was see recited where I see on on page 80 um I was just tell to say did you look at the first paragraph of the commercial land uses was a b picture item here and Mr so he said that uh the master plan does not anticipate any significant changes to the commercial areas of the township however it's anticipated that the types of uses permitted in commercial areas will be monied in reaction to current and anticipated future needs and demands it is anticipated that there will be more mixed commercial residential development areas that are appropriate um in in light of in light of that statement is would you still this is this is an appropriate location I I feel like that stat rep what we're trying to achieve here I'm not trying to lead the witness but I think that was an important element of the big fixture item because purpose of commercial area to promote commercial activity and I think the testimony is that this particular use will not be mixed use anymore almost introduces a element into this particular area and that'll afford walkability into support business and and I think what the applicant saying is is that residentials contemplated in this in this um Zone by the ex uses and we're providing that residential we're providing the important affordable housing that the ordinance seeks to do and as well as that settlement from the for case seeks to do without the negative impact of introducing more uh commercial that's going to just make the parking I'm sorry make the traffic uh course it is the any other questions questions profession real quick so is Paul going to be residential is there anything that would prohibit some time in the future adding commercial absolutely we have to come back to this Bo or go back to rest no I just said to the board comp right we would not be able to make any change to this at all without going back to board on another public hearing sry and the resolution runs the corre correct no future user could do it this if this board approves this it would be this used with these conditions looking the way it looks with the landscaping and everything else until such time as another board approv something different okay any questions from the public for the planner M chair before we get to the public comments we have a he yes yes thank you very much um 9:15 5 7 [Music] minutes oh I just want to stret exhausted everything oh my [Music] gosh yeah this is the best one your back I love that one okay [Music] [Music] besides the town besides already well we already have that yeah know I know do [Music] that's why I asked the question [Music] think theast imp well yeah when he it took me a minute to realize okay you saying Jim is like this is the only thing I'll allow without fighting [Music] it what building I think aesthetically I think [Music] that was interesting I learned something about the level a is 10 seconds and the level I'm like so now I'll be like so are you a level a or a Level D Community I need to know before I move there you know what are you a 10 second or a 20 second I love IDE well I don't know if it cuz like like you said well if I can only make a right turn then I'm going to start youing it and I don't know what well I know it's not us to but I'm I've always wondered like why some places have it versus other can you imagine in the summer how longbody I am just do they have a lot of accidents now no cuz my son going to work into the every summer do you know there at that red light the number of exp that dve from the the cars likees and the Lambos and the Mercedes and all I hear and my daughter sits there say word just be quiet just be don't R like just you have to be ready it's like the indd 500 you've got to be ready to make your turn all I here and then when an ambulance like just move over and nobody else moves over people that sit in the middle and don't move in the summer insane and unfortunately it's us women little kids in the car that sit there and and it's only like two or three cars but they sit and they don't move and you're incredulous sit down like oh oh my God how could you not move M oh and and we come back for more fun on Thursday right and they properly noticed no I'm kidding like I like winess traffic yeah very very mother hand like won't be her Thursday so so you can have your buddy back I might end up there you never know I told you I asked my question I guess what I was you know how sometimes the applicant will say if this is something that Bo like like we'll conceed to it even though we don't have to but I don't like I don't know when a right turn only is better or worse like like I I get that who does it but how like how does it come about that some places you can only make a right like how did they feel that would be done by that would be done by they would make those to the county so the county has no problem with it the county but if it was West Park the police department can make the recommendation do that that's what people have is how would the county even like they don't know but they to all righty let's get back 9:15 I think you a g [Music] okay it is now time for public comment tap tap tap do we have any members of the public who would like to make a comment the public gave me some input and I just wanted to offer something on the record are you repeat are you going to repeat each other no okay it's just right it's just something in response to the public they made a very good suggestion and to the extent that the board grants its approval we would ask that it be with the ability to do this even though it's not shown on this plan they have suggested that the the people who Park I'm sorry the employees and the like for this commercial area in the summertime Park on their street and it may be benefit to us to put up a fence on this side and on this side so we don't have it shown on the plan it wasn't something we were aware of if the board were to approve this we would just ask flexibility to work in other words those people from in the street cross this property the they get to work defense so what so what we would ask for is now they got walk so again the harder better we would just we would just ask for the flexibility to add a conforming fence that isn't shown on the plan now and if we to approve it we would it would be subject to Bill not bill at all bill hasn't been here in years which sides we both sides we want the option to put fencing on the North and South and that would be compliant with height with height style to be [Music] improv okay you can state your name and your address please if you tap turned off Wasing button professor of what I'm a professor at the union scho engineer why don't you why don't you just sit down awes yeah it a greato thank you I was also M University for some years um so um you said I graduated I'm sorry you give us your name and address my name is Robert coer I'm I'm at 100 marke place and you're going to testify now yes okay then if you can raise your right hand if you can raise your right hand do you affirm to tell the truth the whole truth okay um so yes uh I I was going to uh suggest that some thought be given to uh cross property traffic uh because we we do have a lot of problems with lots of cars parked around parked along ground place in summertime uh employees of the businesses adjacent to the uh to this property uh do not allow their employees to park in the lot uh so they do tend to park on Brown Place uh which also makes getting in and out of there even more challenging during the summer Mr to I suggest that you when that occurs let Colleen know because that's a violation they're not allowed to do that and I know that in the past when the hair salon used to do that your predecessor Marian molinsky used to issue summonses and tickets so it it's not just a police issue it's also a zoning issue that is something that I'm sorry that I'm bringing it to you but unfortunately that's your position yeah litter it's a whole you know so they they can be issued your name down no but they can be issued summons because they're supposed to park on their on their site and then also the hair salon used to rent spaces from the bagel place and they weren't allow to do that b go plac just you know what I miss just very briefly I think my main comment and I think I said this offline as well is that a lot of the concern comes from the fact that the property before was an empty lot uh was a single family dwelling and I think it was that way for many and that's the way it was when I bought my house 21 years ago um and so now you know despite everything we said which I understand uh what we see is uh in this place a big three story building going up um and we don't sort of we we think we know what the impacts will be but we're worried that there going to be impacts that we haven't even thought of yet so I guess that's really all I have to say concerned uh I appreciate all the effort of Scot to making this plan uh and trying to do it in a way that benefits the neighborhood I do appreciate that very much um but is it Dr Tu or M Mr it could be her do Professor Germany anything you like Mr toer um just for the benefit of the board because they didn't hear what you indicated I set up one and it's okay I just like to share with them what I explained to Mr and Mrs cers is that I recognize that they like having a single family home there but ironically that's a non-conforming use of the Zone a non to rebuild a single family home would need a use variant so while it was great and you had the benefit of having this non-conforming use that time unfortunately or fortunately you bought next to a commercial District which contemplates commercial uses there so what we talked about was in light of all the concerns and issues that he has with the commercial uses this is going to be less potentially than what they have so that was when he referen what we talked up onine I just want to put on the record thank you any other comments from the public okay a motion to close the public hearing a motion second all those in favor I any opposed okay may I have a moment to sum up Madam chair yes [Music] um I understand the I understand the concerns that I'm hearing mostly from the I'm going to call this what direction the east side of the board but joking aside I understand the concerns from some of the board members that's your job that's why you're here um but at the same time we have to look at this in the big picture not as to one potential impact uh we have to look at again what it's zoned for the one thing that I fail to get on the record that I think is important to note now is under the prior approval where it was a conditionally permitted use we had eight residential units and the first floor was commercial so what we're talking about here is not residential not residential we're really talking about just replacing commercial on the first floor with three three more residential units so it's not as if we're going from zero residential to 11 which I think we talked about with the busing and everything else eight would be permitted as a matter of right under the conditional use standards we're just talking about changing out the uh commercial the complaints that we've heard from the neighbors really have to do with traffic which as our traffic your tesic good would be far worse even with the buses and even I disagree with John a little bit in the in the summertime getting behind a c bus sucks that's another legal term so we recognize that that's part of living on the shore that's living in a community where a lot of the kids go to camp but even not withstanding that the number of trips which could be upwards of 50 to 100 that are these peak hours on a roadway that we already know is not functioning well at that intersection would have a hugely detrimental impact would be permitted and the planning board would would be compelled to Grant it so what you're given here is the option to do what this board does best and that is way the positives and the negatives the concerns from the neighbors are traffic you heard the traffic testimony Ben isn't here but his report didn't disagree with any of the findings in it that what we're proposing is going to be far less intense from a traffic perspective than a permitting juice the other concern that you heard was some of the other impacts as it relates to the commercial uses the uh excess parking of employees and the things that our planner talked about and your planner talked about which is the trash the noise the late night uh lighting and the overall intensity of the use so this is not like uh a case where we're introducing a wholly unconsidered use in a pristine nebor neighborhood for example putting a a a a a business in a single family residential zone or putting the apartment in a single family residential home residential Zone you have this area that's mixed juice we meet the intent of your ordinance by providing residential by providing the affordable housing we meet your master plan by providing more pedestrian uh traffic so to speak to this commercial Corridor that you have without taxing the traffic and the parking as it relates to it and and I know that at least one member of the board wishes that the building was smaller and I understand that but the application before you is for what it is and the application before you is for a building that according to your ordinance is less in height than what the ordinance permits which is 35 ft or 34 1/2 ft the parit is accepted up the um and the elevator Tower is accepted up we don't need any setback variances with regard to this building we don't really need any coverage variances except for an ornamental piece of trim around the outside of the building which I think everybody agrees with enhances the Aesthetics of the building so as far as does the building fit in this neighborhood and does it fit according to zoning it does the only variance we really need is with regard to the number of stories which they typically put in both to keep it from being excessively tall and it's it's just to protecting two ways to protect it in this particular case it doesn't have any impact we have a tremendous amount of landscaping we have an excess of parking we're willing to address every concern that was expressed by your planner as well as your engineer and we really have uncontroverted uncontroverted engineering and planning testimony I go a step further it's not only not uncontroverted but it's strongly supported by your own EXP and many of you sitting on this board have been through a few applications with me and we're not always so lucky to have your board engineer and your board planner so wholeheartedly support a proposal and often times it could be battle the experts in this case you're not only of Africans experts telling you this is the right development for this space but you have your own experts telling you that and we came here as a compromise after meeting numerous times so in light of all of that in light of the fact that it's not just about a negative effect it has to be so negative to rise to the level of substantial and it has to be so substantial to outweigh all the benefits that we spent the last 3 hours talking about we would ask that you please vote in favor subject to the conditions that we talked about at the hearing that's compliance with F's letter compliance with jy's letter and our ability to put in a conforming fence along the side property lines to hopefully help some of the Cross traffic uh from the employees of the adjacent commercial thank you yeah anything we didn't testify to we will come as it relates to yeah there was nothing in any of the reports your uh your traffic safety officer didn't have an issue with it your crime prevention didn't have an issue with it fire prevention didn't have an issue with it all of your outside review agencies felt that this was appropriate okay someone offer I'll move for a positive just break down yes sorry everybody go the home very V for the use start the use for that okay and I believe it was seconded second isn't that a surise no I just needed to flush it all up that's you I didn't hear youi yeso yes lki yesan yes yes we do the the together the buls better okay someone offer I offer posi resolution second's no yesi yeso yes L yes yes chair yes I guess the last thing would be the cycl submitted there the conditions for that would be you want to we need a condition that we're going to leave the playground no what we would ask is is that the playground area will be as presented the play area will be as presented we just want the flexibility to change out equipment I know that in the past i' have to come back if if we want to change a slide yeah we'll put it in 72 equipment to be approved by Jim and replaceable without coming back that you're going to give conditions that like to put the fence as long as it's conforming as long as it's conforming material well the front it'll conform it'll be conforming but material and okay was there any other conditions just compliance with all the letters well yeah fire Mar what not but I don't think condition wer condition okay plan those two things okay POS resolution for the site plan second L yes razi yeso yes lki yes yes yes okay you very and uh Mr seberg we don't need to go into executive session for anything right no okay uh all in favor of a journey I [Music]