e e e e e e e e e e Mr lenning here Mr Hagopian pres Mr dma here Mr low here Mr Rena here Mr Petty Here Miss Mella here Mr mcac here Mr Ferrara here and chairwoman Kent okay we have the minutes of the June 27th 2024 meeting do I have a uh I'll move it Mr Len Mr lenning yes Mr agopian yes Mr dama yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes Miss Mella yes Mr mcac yes and chair wi Ken yes okay public heara hearing area need of Redevelopment study entitled intersection of the Jake Brown Road in US Highway 9 and intersection of Jake Brown Road in White Oak Lane dated April 6 2021 and amended July 25th 2024 um Joe before we start I have to be sworn in yes absolutely would you raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give this evening is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do thank you so board members you may recall that um in um March I was here with the same study for discussion and I had briefed the board that um this is an existing study so what you're seeing in front of you is nothing new it's the um area investigation study we did for the properties at the intersection of uh US Highway 9 and Jake Brown Road and Jake Brown Road and White Oak Lane at the time when I wrote the study in 2020 it included 16 properties uh this is just an amendment to include one parcel and on the list in the report it is site number 15 which is block 1025 four lot 16 um this one parcel is nothing but the cheesecake Quake Farm um that is located along Route 9 at that time when we conducted the original study um the farmers market was in operation they were using the property since then the property has been sold the buildings are waken and the site just contains four abandoned buildings one of them was the farmers market uh one is a storage building a greenhouse in a barn um the the site as you know doesn't have a proper parking lot it's all gravel it has multiple accesses uh it absolutely has obsolete layout it does qualify for uh the area investigation the it meets the criteria of the Lo the uh Redevelopment law it meets criteria b d and H uh B being the property has been um contains abandoned buildings it has been wakened for more than 2 years uh D for the obsolete layout or the unsafe parking conditions and circulation H because this property is within the Suburban planning area very close to Transit uh there are there is a bus stop right at the intersection of Jake Brown Road and us9 and also the property surrounded on all sides by the existing Redevelopment area so the inclusion of this property makes sense the property is already zoned for uh commercial the um idea is that if this be included in the area investigation St study subsequently a plan be written for retail type of uses because it's right on Highway 9 so I would recommend um the board re make a recommendation to the council to include this one parcel uh within the existing area investigation study or the Redevelopment area I'll take any questions does anybody have any questions Vina um what zone is that property uh currently at it's the edo3 Zone okay and adjacent to it is it edo2 correct so what would happen is I haven't really looked at the concepts yet but I would assume we would just extend the edo2 Zone into this so that U it includes the area because the parking lot is in the commuter parking lot is in edo2 so it would make sense to just merge these two and create ed2 thank you anybody else have any questions wonder why what is the advantage of the Redevelopment Zone as opposed to just the regular zoning it so one is uh the pilot right because you get the payment in Le of taxes which was offered by the state that's how the Redevelopment law was written otherwise there wouldn't be incentive for a developer to come in invest in the town and especially when there are a lot of off-site improvements involved as you know with this Redevelopment project the offsite improvements have been worth $40 million so it has been uh all the roadway infrastructure that has been uh proposed and um when you when you Traverse around the town you must see that they have been actively working so uh in order for them to uh you know support the project I think it's important to include them in a Redevelopment plan have all the that are stated in the zone yes that's not all waved because it's no no not at all not at all so they will so when what will happen is after this I'll work on a Redevelopment plan I will write the bulk standards the design standards after that once the council adopts it that becomes the ordinance so that creates the edo2 zone for this property after that the developer comes and files an application he comes in front of the planning board and the planning board reviews it like any other application and votes on it own sound yes the intent is this I know your fear it's not going to be a warehouse um the the Zone currently is also commercial um it is a route 9 it's Prime for it's right for development it's right across Regency Center which is being built uh and the construction is really uh going on fast I have been so busy just reviewing plans and uh giving a administrative approvals and you know they are going through the permitting process so we expect similar type of development on the other side of the highway as well I know I'm being um if they come in and and the Redevelopment is granted can they then go to the zoning board and get try to get the Zone changed I mean anybody could go to the zoning board and but I think it's a question more for Joe I yeah I mean it the once we adopt a Redevelopment plan that again becomes the Zoning for it with Redevelopment though if we the municipality can enter into Redevelopment agreements with the proposed developers and doing so they can work out and negotiate agreements whereby they will agree or the township can force the developer to say no variances you have to come in with a fully compliant plan um that's the other benefit of of Redevelopment is you get to negotiate um more of the development itself rather than just coming in with a compliant plan or non-compliant plan seeking variances you also can negotiate off-site improvements uh that can be included in the Redevelopment agreement that you can't with typical you know traditional type of uh land use applications so um nothing as Venus said nothing can stop the person unless the developer comes in ahead of time saying I want to be designated the redeveloper I want to enter into Redevelopment agreement and potentially get a pilot um then they have to work with us and then the town can then say well if you're going to do that this application you know maybe can't come in with the variant or nothing that would trigger a you know zoning board approval instead of the planning board or you can work out those terms okay that we remain in control absolutely you actually get more usually get more control through Redevelopment actually the planning board gets more control uh when it is Redevelopment the zoning board is literally kept out does anybody else have any questions or comments and it's a public hearing so we have to open up okay anybody in the public would like to comment on this item seeing No Hands public do I have a motion yeah just to just to be clear we I did next one on the uh item on the agenda is a resolution that was anticipating the board being in favor of this application so uh if we can maybe just have a motion and a second for and roll call on the adoption of the resolution that will suffice as being the board's right approval of the recommendations from the planner okay so do I have a motion for the resolution I'll move it okay by Miss second second by who okay call please Mr lenning yes Mr agopian yes Mr dama yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes Miss Mella yes Mr mcac yes and chair M Ken okay yes okay uh application 49- 2023 p hhft and renewal LLC amended major preliminary and final site plan Buton it'll turn green you think there it is yep [Music] good evening my name is Merl goner I'm a member of the firm of ss and gross attorneys for the applicant hhft urban renewal LLC previously hhft Holdings LLC uh when we initially appeared before the board this evening we are seeking amended preliminary and final site plan approval seeking authorization to use a mezanine area which was authorized to be permitted and constructed at the time of construction of the 325,000 square ft Warehouse Building located at 1800 Waterworks Road um and known as block 6303 lot 3.15 uh the property was the subject of an earlier preliminary and final site plan application number 27-16 Z which was decided by the Old Bridge township Zoning Board of adjustment uh which approval was memorialized by resolution dated December 15 2016 subsequent to the grant of that approval but prior to my client seeking building permits the applicant um sought authorization to include a mezzanine area of approximately 13,000 Square fet which had been inadvertently omitted from the architectural plans that had been submitted along with the 2016 site plan application the applicant submitted a request to the zoning board and appeared before the board and um obtained authorization which they characterized as administrative however um the action which was memorialized in a letter from the zoning board Council dated December 5 2017 and which was included in the initial application that we filed with you provided that amended site plan is not required due to the lack of impact or creation of any new site issues as a result of the proposed internal modifications to the building and found that the mezzanine area will be conditionally approved only for the purpose of Permitting and construction however said area cannot be finished or used as an office space until the applicant appears before the board and receives approval uh as I indicated we did appear before the board in 20 17 we were asked and testified to the fact that the mezzanine area was not anticipated for any third-party tenants um and there would be no portions of it least out to any uh other users and based upon that testimony and others and answering the board's questions they felt that they could grant that approval as it was characterized um as I indicated we did provide the um letter from the board attorney zoning board attorney J um which also identified that in addition to the mezzanine area there would be stairwells at leading up to it a break room and bathrooms all in accordance with that anticipated area uh and it actually broke out approximately 890 squ foot breake area um about 900 square feet uh for stairwells bathroom area in addition to an actual 10,000 square foot um mezzanine area which which would be used for office uh and some um showroom type uses that had been testified to as part of the application back in 2016 um we first made this application in June of 2023 the mezzanine had been constructed at the time the rest of the building was built and it was uh part of the permits that were granted for the overall building um the um we appeared before we appear before you because um sometime in late 2020 um during covid the mezzanine was in fact put into operation without coming back to get that approval um no one was aware or had recalled that they were violating a condition there was an inspector in The Bu building for another reason um some periodic inspection realized it was being used we were issued a violation notice and this application followed to bring us into compliance with the approval just as a bit of History uh in 2016 um this was a zoning board application uh the premises which total uh 45 Acres was then partly in the sd3 zone and partially in the edo3 zone um and was made up of lots portions of lot 3.11 and 7 in Block 6303 uh we had obtained um a subdivision to create the current lot um but because of the fact that we were in Two zones we were at the zoning board because one of those zones permitted our use which was um warehouse and distribution however the other Zone did not and because it was a split lot um we were required to go to the zoning board uh in addition I think we exceeded the F standard in one of the zones not the other by a quarter of a percentage Point um we also needed um some C variances uh the height of the building exceeded what was the 45 foot that was permitted by 3 feet to 48 feet and there were also some setback violations again violations in one zone but compliant in the other Zone um subsequent to the grant of the approval oh I should say when we came before the zoning board we were in in an area in need of Redevelopment but no plan had yet been adopted and because of contract constraints we moved ahead uh before the zoning board subsequent however the town did adopt a Redevelopment plan and as a result none of the variances that were then required uh are now needed uh because we are compliant in all respects physically with the uh Redevelopment plan requirements and because it's all in one Redevelopment plan area area we are no longer a split lot and therefore um we were able to come before this board uh because we no longer require um any of the variances that had then been uh required and granted um at the time of that approval um we did get a waiver for the size of parking spaces they are 9 by8 uh the ordinance required 10 by 20 um that is not changing they're all built out out um the uh approval as originally granted was for 171 parking spaces some of those were proposed to be built and others to be um banked and built later the client actually built all of them when they built the building so there are 171 spaces and fortunately as we calculated and as your planner calculated in her letter we exceed the requirement um for parking for the building inclusive of the mezzanine area which was previously authorized to be built and which we're now asking you to allow us to um to formally to use um and that includes if I was looking back and I I thought on our plans the entire building had been calculated based at 1 per 5,000 for warehouse without breaking out the office but we ran the calculation as well if we include the higher parking requirement of one space for every 200 square feet for office even with the mezzanine we still exceed what's required under your ordinance and that as I said agrees with what your uh planner had calculated um we had been before you to get waivers for completeness which were granted and we also have submitted an Affidavit of publication and an Affidavit of service um uh indicating that we have served property owners and have published in the paper and hopefully that's been reviewed that is in in order for the board to jurisdiction I'm looking at you but I don't know who reviews it to make you feel I believe uh Danny has reviewed that and we're good thank you okay uh with that um we have we had planned to bring our engineer and he is with us the same engineer who worked with us back in 2016 um there's very little we think that is necessary to support this since we don't impact the exterior however there were some questions in the review letter and so we also have um brought with with us um the um managing member of the applicant uh so I'd like to call um Henry want to you come up we'll have this um because he's in the best position to answer some of the questions that are related to operation would you please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you going to give this night is tonight excuse me is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do thank you could you uh State and spell your name for the record Henry j gindy h n r y middle initial J G GUI ndi um and I characterized you it's an LLC I characterized you as managing member of the applicant is that an accurate statement yes it is okay um very briefly um can you just describe um what goes on at the site you've been in operation now since what 2018 19 yes so we basically importers we uh design um merchandise things that you buy every day uh stuff like a bed betham yond stores dish racks shower caddies every daily use items um we design them we pack we design packaging in the offices and we make manufacture everything in China or in Brazil or in turkey or any other country and some in USA and we bring it in to our warehouse the store in our warehouse and distribute it out to our retailers um and um that is the same operation that we described to the other board when we were before them in 200 that's the same operation that you've been in for a number of years 30 years yeah um and can you describe for us how the mezzanine area is going to be used how it is used the mezanine area is being used um going to be used um primarily for showroom Zoom calls um display where we set up products to show the customers what the area looks like set up for trade shows and we take it and we take it with us to trade shows all right there's no retail operation at the site no one can come and purchase things off the street or no no it's no no retail for us now um the um the approval that was granted in 2017 allowed you to build get permits and build mezanine but you weren't supposed to be using it how did you come to be using it in the intervening period um well it wasn't even we were never using it because we never needed it um came covid and the whole world changed and we had to everybody had to Pivot and figure out how to get things done so we couldn't go to trade shows we couldn't show product anywhere so we somehow started like placing things on the floor and showing customers on zoom and you putting it on like display boards and that's how it all started and that's how we just started you know using it during Co everyone had to readjust and figure out how to make business work Zoom you know we were new to zoom we were new to doing things on the camera just we needed a big open area and it was sitting right there um now I I did ask my client to take pictures of it today if the board has an interest in seeing it we have a number of different photos Mar exhibits um unfortunately since I was the one making the copies I have five of each but there are a number of different views of it if the board would like to see it we're happy to provide it if the board is is less than curious about it we're fine with that too we just go on we can pass them around okay um why don't I do this then I will um do we want to mark them separately you want to just mark them as one one one collection or well pretty similar so first one that we doing I don't even know how toting them it's just first view what what I say maybe do we want to just mark them all as one exhibit a as as five photos or number of photos they are of the mezanine are since it's hard to distinguish them separately okay since I made Henry climb around there pictures today should get some benefit from them yeah I think that's probably the best way to do it simple for and uh while while they're um looking at those um just for the record those were taken today by myself okay thank you w I don't know if you need to take notes y I'm good thank you I appreciate that um and uh just to confirm since I don't offer testimony was I accurate in my U description of how the inspector came to be in the office and you received a violation notice yeah that's uh that's perfectly correct um and um uh so it's accurate to say then that the mezzanine area is not broken into individual offices nobody no employees are up there as their location correct and you confirm that there are no retail sales there uh one of the other questions that was asked in the review letter has to do with the the number of employees um I think we were quoted as saying that um at the time of the 2016 hearings uh we had anticipated 50 to 55 employees um do we have more employees on the site now uh we have about 80 at site at any given time and that a total the most okay and do that include people who work in the design area people who are in the first floor office as well as the warehouse employees that's everybody okay and um are the um Warehouse employees uh in shifts they work in in shifts we have two shifts um but the night shift that we have is very minimal it's uh only six people to seven people at night and um are they sort of staggered in other words does the day shift come in at a different time than the office and design people yeah there's no there's no overlap if that's your question yeah okay um so from your perspective the the use of the mezzanine has not generated that's not the source of any additional employees that's just general growth in the business the use of the mine is only for display it's not ping employees it's just more convenience otherwise you'd have to set it up in a part of the warehouse basically and it'll be in the way and dirty that's all we have for this W um can you go over some of the questions um that were in the memo I believe there was a question related to employees I missed that employes total the total number of employees that can be on at site total but I believe your original testimony at that time was so does that mean your employees have increased or it the building has a capacity to have 80 employees how many employees do you have right now have about 80 over 80 okay and the reason why is because we grew when we took the building we anticipated growth so and I know the township wanted to come to the to the town so that we could bring more employment too so may I ask you this because I was going through the previous resolutions and what I noticed is your engineer had testified at that time that there was a sales show room area that was uh approved at the when you went in front of the board the first time is that correct so this showroom was not really created for covid it was already already there in the building is that correct notifi there was approximately 15,000 sare ft that would be used for office and showroom okay but the office was separately shown on the site plan and the contemplation would be if they had a showroom it would be part of the it would be in the warehouse okay had not started doing that the testimony was that they actually started doing that really in in around the time of oh so although there was a showroom area or it was the concept was included in the original application you never had it and you started uh really using that during covid is that right I just want the board to understand what I'm trying to get at is I want the boat to understand that the retail showroom component no when somebody comes and places on order right that that to me is sale that was already contemplated in the original application it is not something new that was added now you had an approval for it before that's what I'm aiming at right um the language was and I'm reading from page 52 of a transcript of a November 3 2016 hearing which said we have space that we have an office area which will probably um be 10 to 15,000 square ft feet we have a studio um for pictures we have product film team we have a design team we have a Salesforce and I think they actually Ed the terms showroom um as well um right I saw that in the resolution as well so I want the board to understand that a because usually the EMP increase in employee or even the showroom would add to the parking requirement but when we review a warehouse type of facility when we did segme projects or when we did Kennedy International we use the one space for 5,000 square ft as the parking ratio it is inclusive of any office space that would be within the warehouse typically we assume that 10% of the warehouse is takes up the office space but now I'm noticing that the plans we wrote for segme they're coming back for administrative approval because they don't need so much office space they need more of warehousing space and have been issuing administrative approvals I think similar is the case here uh when they came in originally they had a smaller office space now there is a need for a larger office as long as it's within the confines of the warehouse building and it's within the square footage um it does not impact the parking or the traffic um and I think your numbers are spot on because I think under the it The Institute of Traffic Engineers that they assume for every Warehouse there'll be between seven and 10% that isre office right um and actually we are still even with although the mezanine is not office per se and was always contemplated in this manner um 10% would be 32,500 of Warehouse using a 10% and we are still only in the 20s right that is correct I have no further questions questions yeah just uh want to know since your showroom is going to be upstairs where your clientele will be coming does that have a handicap accessibility or your client tell to go up to the showroom there's an elevator an elevator okay that was part of the ini um we we um I I don't want to force cut off anybody we do have our engineer here just to confirm for the record that there are no um exterior changes um so if there are other questions you have about the site itself um our engineer would be able to answer those canate are having Mr okay is there anyone from the public that has any questions or comments seeing No Hands close the public portion okay then we will not present sorry Tom um we will not but as I said we can stipulate that this is the only we're not making any physical changes since it's there already and there are no changes let that would implicate site considerations thank you absolutely so uh a motion in favor granting the application we Grant amended site plan approval which will allow for uh compliance with the zoning board's conditions of approval uh granting the board's approval for use of the mezanine area that has been previously approved to be constructed and um the uses in there uh previously approved by the zoning board are now compliant with the um Redevelopment plan uh there are no variances or design waivers required in connection with this application any any variances and design waivers have already been previously granted by the zoning Board in connection with the under Ling approval um and uh there are no specific conditions uh that have been identified other than uh the stipulations that have been set forth by the applicant comp and the standard uh conditions of approval including compliance with the board professionals reports okay chairman I have a question there's no more test amand I don't believe so you don't have any more test well we have our engineer with us if you had any question I didn't know we were we were up to this point right now now but I want to thank uh Henry I don't want to mess up your last name because Wednesday I went out to the site and he he took me on a a nice tour of the building so I just want to thank you for that thank you for com okay so have you youve completed your simp ask that you grant us the authorization to continue using the mezanine area so any anybody have any more questions or comments all right if not then we can go ahead and make okay is there a motion to approve motion to approve okay I'll second it okay roll call please Mr lenning yes Mr agopian yes Mr dma yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes Miss Mella yes Mr mcisaac yes and chairwoman Ken yes thank you so much so are we going to see you again again or that's it I said what are they doing back here they were here before thank you so much all right good luck thank you we stipulated what his testimony is going to um is there any other business do you have anything else talk to us about no nothing at this time no nope okay um then I'll just um yes we have a any general public comments are there any general P public uh comments yes do you want to come up here just have to state your name for the record pleas gonna thank you sorry I just have a question about um when you anticipate the warehouse project to be completed can you speak which W which Warehouse project the um the one on Jake Brown Road and White Oak Lane that's behind the do you have any information on on when the um so there are multiple buildings uh there are almost nine buildings um the the entire project probably five to seven years okay was it anticipated that it was going to be done um sooner or no this was no I think they they are on schedule because it was going to be phased out so um Glenwood Country Club site the buildings this construction going on I think they already have a tenant for one of the warehouse buildings the other three are under construction uh Jake Brown Road South the warehouses complete they they doing their final uh work and permitting is still on but um I think the overall project would be 5 to 7 years and I'm sorry if this is a NAA question but who was this approved by was it the planning board or was it Madam chair I can this was a Redevelopment project so the final approval goes to the the planning board but it's um the design Redevelopment agreements Redevelopment plans that was uh developed by the Redevelopment agency as well and has to be approved by the governing body so it actually went through three different public bodies before it got final approval but the the final site plan approval showing that it's compliant with what the Redevelopment plan that was adopted negotiated was by this board okay um I'm a student at middle just for context I'm sorry I'm a student at middle sex um and I'm doing a project I'm a journalism student doing a project on um the warehouse project in O the Redevelopment of a lot of the farmland and I that is what I was um question about yes I mean if you just if you have any questions on on the process I'm happy to answer in general this was a Redevelopment projects so Redevelopment projects start with what we kind of just saw a little earlier today it it's a the governing body finds a site or developer has a site and they ask the municipality to consider it for redevelopment it goes to the planning board to do a preliminary investigation as to whether it meets the criteria whether it qualifies as Redevelopment um the planner does the in the the investigation makes a presentation to the board the board then either agrees or disagrees with the planner's recommendation makes a recommendation itself to the governing body is to declare it Redevelopment once it's cleared Redevelopment then it falls under the Redevelopment law which means either the planning board depending on the municipality the planning board the governing body or the Redevelopment agency then develops a Redevelopment plan which is now the new Zoning for the site so it takes over whatever the under lining zoning was and now that's what the the developer or property owner has to comply with so that took place that gets when it gets that gets adopted it gets introduced by the governing body goes to the planning board for consistency review and comment then goes back to the governing body for final adoption once that's in place then the municipality can negotiate Redevelopment agreements which as you might have heard me speaking earlier allows for some off-site improvements other you know other amenities to the township including potential um pilots and then when they the developers ready to actually come and develop they come before the planning board with their site plan application that is compliant with the Redevelopment plan now not the underlying Zone okay um can I ask if how you feel this will affect like traffic in the area with well that was already it was discussed in in in depth with at the at the public hearings on the applications uh it's it's not really appropriate for the board to discuss an application that's not on for the public hearing before at the time but that if you want to that we have videos and and of all that where traffic was very much discussed uh and the board considered Traffic Engineers our traffic engineer reviewing their reports as to what impact and we made them go back quite a few times to make amendments and and further uh expand their traffic studies as well during those public hearings so um I think the best way to get that information would be going back and looking through the minutes and and the um the video of those hearings okay thank you very much and you could always sit in on all these meetings you know they're open to the public and you see how it works and it's a long process takes years you know to get to a point where they're putting a shovel on the ground you know all those approvals and all the different departments where it goes through in the state and so you know you're always welcome to sit in okay thank you very much or you can watch us on TVV where would I be able to find it I'm so sorry we're on channel 15 15 and they rebroadcast it YouTube as well right on YouTube yeah I only had a month to do this I understand that's takes it's taking years to do the project thank you very much answer my questions I'll make sure to go back and is would any of you uh be able to answer some or provide some comment through email about the project or not necessarily or this I guess um all of them but warehouses behind dwood are mostly what I'm concerned about to all I'm part of okay you send an email I really appreciate that thank you you thank you thank you thank you so much for helping me okay thank you for coming thank you okay so we had a motion no now that we oh okay you're finished right yes yes um all right do we have a motion motion okay oll call all in favor yes yes yes I all right see you next month bye