e e e e e e e the of the Oldbridge planning board if everybody would stand and salute the flag I pledge Alle to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all okay wa roll call please uh Mr lenning is absent uh Mr Hagopian Mr dupa here Mr low here Mr Rena here Mr Petty Here Miss Mella here Mr mcac absent Mr Brennan here Mr Ferrara here and chair Kent here okay we have uh the minutes of the February 22nd 2024 meeting um do I have a motion to approve move [Music] it second second by Mr B roll call please uh Mr agopian yeah Mr dama yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes M Mella yes uh Mr Brennan yes and Mr farar yes okay and the resolution um is 01- 2024 P Oldbridge entertainment LLC preliminary and final major site plan I have a motion I'll move it move Mr second second M call please Mr agopian yes Mr dama yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes Miss Mella yes Mr Brennan yes Mr Ferrara yes and chairman Ken yes resolution 45-22 3 p St Mary and Archangel Raphael Coptic Orthodox Church preliminary and final major site plan do I have a motion I'll move to approve Mr L I'll second second roll call please Mr agopian yes Mr dama yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes M Mella yes Mr bernon yes Mr Ferrara yes and chairman Ken yes okay under applications 35- 2023 P Le Development Group LLC um has been adjourned to date uh to a date to be announced with further notice so do we have to do anything with that or uh yeah historically our board has approved uh those by vote oh okay so do I have a motion to um agree to the um delay or adjournment I'll move it okay move by Mr La roll call our second I'll second it okay second roll call please Mr agopian yes Mr dama yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes Miss Mella yes Mr Brennan yes Mr Ferrara yes and chairman Ken yes okay uh and the application on for tonight is 42-20 21p Segi LLC Glenwood Country Club amended major preliminary and final site plan certified complete 4524 and the exploration 83224 good evening again for the record Mark Poly Castro attorney for the applicant believe this is a fairly straightforward application Famous Last Words um we have one witness this evening um Mr lamb please state your name for the record Tong toe lamb last name l a m first name tuu n g hyen t o raise your right hand do you swear orir the testimony you're going to give this evening is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir thank you and just want give your credentials your credentials uh 2004 graduate from Rochester Institute of Technology with Bachelor of Science degree in civil engineering Tech PhD candidate from bucker in civil environmental engineering um licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey and the surrounding state uh license still in good standing okay thank you and whose birthday is tonight my son's nine years old oh okay that's important to know you have a brief presentation is that correct very brief six exhibits um we just want to highlight there a couple changes um and just a before and after shot so it's really just three sections that we want to go through and just for when you say exhibits these are new they haven't been provided to the board already or these have already been provided to the board brand new exhibits for tonight's prr we'll mark those right thank you do you want to mark them individually each sheet or as a package or uh whatever the board's pleasure we can do it as a package yeah we why we do it as a package and just identify when you switch sheets which sheet we are looking at great and if you can just identify what the exhibit is in general just describe with the DAT in what all the the sheets are together collectively excuse me collectively they are a sight line exhibit um it's a package of six sheets in total prepared by Boulder and it is dated 422 2024 the first sheet is um site line a t just give him one minute it's taking time to load gotcha so the first exhibit is sight line a this is the highest point in the previously proposed sound wall that prior sound wall just consists of a 14ot high fence basically from the edge of their Drive aisle um there was some concern about screening and things of that nature from the original application and there simplest um texture that we had to propose at that moment was pull up a fence um that's 14 ft high and we label it as a sand wall but as construction went on we're noticing the surroundings and we've came up with a alternative idea which is what we want to present to you tonight which consists of a landscape burm and on top of that U BM will either have landscaping and or plantings so what we think um what we're proposing is a better alternative to what was previously proposed which was simply a 14 foot high wooden fence so the first exhibit which is SE um section A highest point in the sand wall which is at elevation 54 so at the top of that previously proposed sound wall was at elevation 54 and what is shown in red is that crosssection that we took and at the bottom of that page is simply describes from the left hand side which is the Glenwood apartment to the right hand side which is the proposed warehouse and the cross-section in between them and once again the height of the sound wall is at 54 and that's um of importance and Danny can you flip over to the next sheet which is sight line B so sight line B is the same as sight line a sight line a was taken at point where the sound wall was now what we're proposed on the bottom is the Earth and burm which is either a function of a slope on the side of the uh grass burm and on top there's a six foot high fence and there's additional Landscaping so the top of the burm that we're proposing is that elevation 55 so previously the sound wall was at elevation 54 at top on burm we're going one foot higher with your soil and on top of that we're proposing plantings and at the time of insulation it will be at a elevation of 61 so we're comparing elevation 61 to 54 and that is at the highest point so we also cut two more sections on the book end of the proposed sound wall previously so Danny if you flip over to the thir sheet which is Exhibit C so Exhibit C is shown there sound wall on the western end of the site so at that sound wall elevation that's at 52 once again we're going to do another comparison so Danny can we flip over to the next exhibit which is D so same exact location but now with the burm option so the burm is at elevation 46 but the planting is going to get you up to Elevation 51 and the fence is going to get you up to Elevation 52 so we're comparing the previously approved sound wall at elevation 52 versus elevation 52 in this also condition and then the last two exhibit is on the Eastern end of that sound wall previously then it can flip to sheet five 5 which is uh sight line e in that section the sound wall elevations at 49 and you go to the last exhibit which is um exhibit F sheet 6 if you take a look now the burm itself is being proposed at elevation 45 but at the time of planting both the plants and the top of the fence is at elevation 51 so we're comparing elevation 40 9 that was previously proposed to 51 now so what we had in mind was we are either going to be equal to what we previously proposed or better as part of this alternative solution and that's why we're here tonight and we did receive a review letter um so you believe it's a better plan is that correct yes why in layman's terms why is it it's a softer look you know you're looking at Greenery there's a smaller fence 6 feet high at MO as opposed to just you know 14t high fence that you're looking at so we believe that this is an improvement overall one okay um what was the first one again what werein two numbers first one top of sound wall was at elevation 54 and the top of planting is at elevation 61 oh 6 I so significantly better okay so the plan thing that's going to be the the size of the planting when you initially put it initially install correct it will only grow higher what um what plant what plantings you putting at the top of the BM they're they're Evergreens okay and if there's a other suggestions with your um board professional we could work with them so we we spoke to we're going to I do have some recommendations with regard to the planning I mean they have two species like it's Douglas fur and um Norway um Spruce so so it's more or less going to be Evergreens that are going to grow into each other right gr tall and even further block the the sideline from Glenwood Apartments into the warehousing exactly and the intent is to to landscape that whole burm with different you know trees and shrubs and correct things like that and if the trees die we have a main SP for a minimum of two years two years minimum yes does the staff any any other com um before before um uh Mr K goes into um l deeper into the review comments I just want the board to understand that um you know when when the revisions came first I was trying to see if I could administratively approve it the only reason they in front of the board is because uh when we had a resolution of approval one of the condition uh of approval was the sound wall so there was extensive testimony provided at the original hearing there was a mention of the sound wall in the resolution and that's why I recommended that the applicant come back to the board and explain to the board why they're doing I believe that from the sound wall because that was a request that had come from me but uh I believe the landscape bum is more aesthetically pleasing um I also know that the applicant has reached out to the neighbor which is brunetti owns the Glenwood Apartments and they have tried to work out wherein uh GL Bret would have some input in where the trees would be planted I think there was a request that most of the trees be planted on um the applicant side versus the Glenwood side which was a weird request because usually you would see neighbors saying that plant on our side but it has come from the brinet organization they want to see more of the plantation on the other side uh the applicant and the entire professional team had a meeting yesterday as well as this morning to go over any concerns that we may have they have agreed to work with us on fine-tuning the uh species of landscaping that is going to go on the BM the one thing uh T we agreed is there is one section of the BM where the BM goes lower and uh I recommend it that the fence be 10 ft High instead of 6 feet and uh the applicant has agreed uh to make it a 10t the ordinance allows you to have a 10t fence in a non-residential Zone and I think that there's one section where you need a higher fence to provide adequate screening I think I covered everything right yes Mr K yes can I are you gonna do you have some comments because I wanted to ask a couple questions go ahead okay yeah just um is everybody aware where the burm is yeah yeah okay well I don't know does everybody know where a burm is where where it is on the site too one thing we didn't see was where these view points were from can you put the collective site plan that shows all the exhibits captured in one um Danny can you pull up near Maps what is it going to be it's as long as the applicant doesn't have an objection we just got to explain what it is judicial notice yeah absolutely no objection yeah this here looks like Venice is that this is actually an aial imagy uh taken on March 11 2024 so it's quite accurate can you worry can you Orient them yeah North is the top of the page um in the middle of the page is route nine running in a north south Direction the largest Warehouse you see on that plan view that is the warehouse in question and the BM that's being proposed is at the tip of the building closest to the Glenwood apartment where the mouse is right now and the Glenwood apartment is um the existing buildings you see to near between our project and Route 9 and the buffering is to screen their apartments from the closest point of their warehouse so basically the burm goes along the uh the corner there yes basically and it it um it varies in height in the middle section it's it's where it's the highest I think it's up to the top it's like 18 feet tall so that's definitely going to be better than than what the sound wall was before it's much denser and we're going to landscape it um or they're going to landscape it and then as you go to the um I guess North basically stays the same elevation maybe a little bit higher in section when you go to to the South one yeah the other way it kind of it has a little dip in there because the road has a high point and the burn is basically the same elevation so that's where um we're trying we we want them to put additional fence in there and I think from speaking with the um the residents that kind of gives us a better um Avenue to Landscaping because if they wanted on the other side what they were doing they were putting three to one slopes on the resident side to so we could put some additional landscaping and and one of my concerns was that you there's the level planting area on the top of the burm was only like five feet so I was trying to stretch it out so you have a wider area to get more plants on the top to stagger them and make it more dense so if we can you know steepen that side up we can expand on on the top of the BM and give it a better planting area and um we've had conversations and they're willing to to you know do a lot of landscaping we can actually reforce I think you know part of the uh previous um hearings there's uh saplings that were supposed to be placed at various locations and one of my questions was have they been design designated locations yet and apparently they haven't so what we can do is recreate a really nice refor station out there we can select some really nice species Beach American sycamores Oaks and restore that area just so it'll it'll reforest the the original planed sound wall that was to mitigate sound or View and how does a burm yeah compare in terms of mitigating sound so I had done my research I'm not an expert but before I even uh said you know it's a good idea uh right I had done some research and it apparently uh when the bone is 2 feet taller than the sound wall it does the same or it has a better uh protection with Acoustics noise and uh you know visual barrier obviously because of the hype but even with noise um so I had confirmed that we can also confirm that as well so that is why the reason why we don't see BMS as often is you don't have that much property correct for the affordability to put a burm in L of the sound correct and I mean if you've traveled along in New York state you see a lot of those sound walls and to me they look very rigid and like harsh whereas when you see a landscape burm it's much softer on your eyes and uh more aesthetically pleasing okay and and the previous solution didn't have any Landscaping in front of it basically just the wall another comment or question all right so my question was that we're going to put up a 14 ft sound wall not a wood fence as per original plan so now that was going to be 895 ft so now at the height where we're going to go down to 5.2 to 8.5 feet is going to be about 300 ft what is the decibel of noise differential between the burn the trees and the wall and the soundproof wall and the reason I'm asking this question is we do have residents that live there if I might uh just clarify one that that there's only one a small spot where it's that low the rest of it the road dips down so that correct I understand and I also understand that when we are putting the trees and everything up and we put the wooden wall up or the wooden fence it's not going to be maintained it's going to be put there it's going to ride away in a couple years the trees are going to die the only reason I know that is because that happened with the over jks where they build a burm put the trees they die nothing has been done yeah so what are we doing with this let's say three four years down the road everything falls down and we have nothing to show for it I mean this is a huge project there is a maintenance Bond our inspectors go and inspect it there have been times on other projects too if we see the trees dying we have had asked the developer to replace them with uh the applicant we have been working with him for Last 5 Years now and uh every time there has been a complaint or has been an issue he has been more than willing to work with us or take care of it so uh obviously the township professionals will keep an eye on it and we will monitor it but I am pretty confident that they will be maintained in a good that's fine I just I just would like to know what is the decibel difference between the sidewall which is 14 ft high and having the burm and everything else which is going to be about 10 feet high 8 10 feet high now I'm talking off my memory I think it was two DB something like that but I'm not too sure okay will we find that out at all or it's comparable and at the end of the day we still have to meet their um State requirement and the township requir so either option we will comply with that right because the state has its own regulations for sound as well as the township has a performance standard ordinance which they have to comply which the police enforce as well uh so this is just to approve the physical design but there they still have to go through other steps and comply with the other sections of the ordinance which pertain to the S all right thank you and just to give you a little Comfort level on the uh the trees we've on all their sites they they've agreed to put drip irrig that's why the trees die because they just don't have enough water well I know that there's no irrigation and I know yeah so so they've agreed on all the other projects to put drip irrigation and it's been pretty successful where we've had it I mean it really you know Spurs good growth and keeps them healthy so we don't anticipate I mean you're always going to have some death with and they're going to have to replace that but generally it it it makes you know it provides good means for them to grow and Main I just wanted to ask though as far as the the ongoing maintenance um you know as long as the Builder is involved and is active in on the site now it's understand you know that he'll maintain it but what what happens 10 years from now or do we con do we you know we used to do which I know they got rid of about maintaining having the township hold on to money um provide maintenance but yeah I mean what's going to happen in 10 years and what if the warehouses are sold and not you know maintain I mean it's it's very hard to control that at this point right we we can only ask for uh as long as the maintenance bond is in place but what would happen after 10 years it's we keep an eye uh code enforcement goes and looks at properties if there is a problem if they see violations they do uh inform the owner who whoever it may be whether it's uh Mr gburg or someone else they would still enforce those so so I mean I don't I I think that's a fair statement yeah sure this is not a um build and cell developer there's a history to this I think you can no I understand that if you look at what he's done elsewhere just not here and elsewhere he's built and kept it generally what we're going to be working with with the developer on the uh type of vegetation and and the vegetation we select is is pretty much Native and it handles this and if generally if something's going to die it dies in that first year true you know it's not you know all the time but you can see whether it's stressed out before the maintenance Bond comes out so that that is the key if if it if it looks like it's starting to die then you know during the next planning season it you know it should be replaced and um I actually agree with Mr K because uh we do have a project on Route 34 which is an active construction site it has been uh under construction for last two years there there is a BM the trees are dying and we have been uh you know the engineering office has been following up with the developer because the project was sold it's a new developer now but he's still tied to all those uh improvements and he we have uring that they plant those trees so I I'm not too worried about these ones this is a this is a huge project it is going to take a couple of years if they have to die it would have it it will die in the first one year where they would have to replant anyways and if it and if it looks like it's not going to make it you know past the two years you can always extend the maintenance Bond I mean you know it's not satisfactory um Mr Lowry did you have something yes uh I'd like to say uh the sound wall versus the burm I'm in favor of the burm I think it makes a a Pleasant View and uh it cuts down on graffiti cuz if you had I mean nobody goes and puts painting on grass and I think it'll look nice uh What uh the the wooden fence on top will people be able to get around that or over it it's a solid um stock a fence minimum 6 feet high subsections we're agreeing with um your staff to increase it from 6 to 10 so okay so it'll be secure yes it'll be secure thank you is anybody else yes is there I'm sorry the yeah did you want to say something yeah um I'm not sure what that there's a yellow line there's a couple of yellow lines there depicting is that the edge of the burm is that the property line those are lot lines lot lines okay so where would the burm begin and end according to that yellow line can you show the area again we'll show you yeah just keep in mind the yellow line here is GIS property lines so these are not surveys so we have survey documents on our file but there's significant room between their pinch point of the the property line as shown on the GIS mapping and the corner of the building closest to your Glenwood Apartments but it's roughly 800 feet around that corner so what would be the depth of the of the burm itself the widest to the narrowest it varies based on the height so it's a 3 to1 to 2 to1 so you know every foot that goes up is either three feet wide or it's two feet wide and then it's two sides to it so there trapz oal shape but the burn would be on the warehouse side not on the Glenwood side no disturbance on off-site property all the disturbance is onsite no changes to the roadway geometry no change to size of building or anything it's simply between the curb line that was previously approved and the property line That Remains the Same and all work is within the subject property do you have an idea of what the uh the distance between the trees would be I mean how thick is the density of the of the uh trees and shrubs what whatever you're putting in there uh between them it varies and we're still in discussion with your board professionals to yeah generally it's 12 feet 12 to 15 feet depending on the species some are more broad Evergreens some are more narrow and the idea is to try to mix mix them in so you can you know cheat a little bit on on the sizing that so it still allows them enough room to grow so that's what we're going to be working on I mean maybe we'll have some green giant arbues some you know red Cedars maybe some you know American Hol you know Norway spruce hemlocks things like that I agree that shrubber and trees are much better than a wall but it's going to take quite a few years for it to grow in and actually become a barrier a soundproof barrier um the day one just the burm itself and the fence itself achieve what is equivalent to what was this um 14t high sound wall so the planting is just bonus on top of it yes did you have question yeah instead of instead of having the uh wood fence would it be possible to get the vinyl fencing if that's the preference we we're simply proposing wood because that's what we did at the Jake Brown South project that's uh nearly complete and that's near Katrell so consist we can switch but we're just looking to be consistent so is that what you want I was just ask we don't think that would be preferable I was just asking that yeah so we're open to hearing it but I don't think that was the intent of the design I think let's be consistent we have been using the same fence throughout the project now I would really not want to change it any anybody else have questions or comments yeah I mean I I agree that the burm is certainly aesthetically much more pleasing and if you're saying that it's going to have the same effect in terms of the noise thing my only concern is but Jer and having lived in a development for 50 some years with a lot of trees they're all starting to fall down and we're having a lot of major issues in our green belts where's why we bought there a lot so but I guess I can't I don't know as long as there's no power as long as there's no power lines right near those oh yeah well we have power lines and our too which Mak it really hazardous but anyway um all right and you're you're saying that as far as the effect for the the noise aspect it's as good or better yes than than the noise the B I mean the um original all right anybody else have any okay do you have any vaa any final comments no okay do you want to sum up absolutely I uh so a vote in favor of this would be a vote amending the site plan uh prior site plan approval it really is limited to just with regard to uh the change in the sound wall which was a specific condition of approval uh that was granted for the site plan to allow for uh a landscaped burm as been testified before the board uh no other waivers or variances are being requested all the original approvals will remain in place including all the conditions of approval uh with regard to this particular Amendment um the applicant agreed as a condition of approval that they will work with the board's professionals to uh for the location and the type of plantings that would be included on the uh the burm uh they will agree to increase the height of the fence uh in certain areas to 10 feet working with the board professionals uh and that they will also work with the board uh with regard to poten entially steepening the slope in certain areas to allow for a larger planting area at the top of the burm uh once again working with the board professionals and in reasonably uh in a reasonable manner uh and that is what I have in addition to just the standard uh conditions of approval uh the continued conditions of approval that were for the underlying original approval aside for what is being amended by this application I presume there are no public comments I don't know yes oh sorry thank youle there's no one here sleepless nights I would remember that yeah we do have to open it up to the public for any questions or uh comments right anybody from the public want to speak Eric does your daughter have any coms I don't know I don't know if my daughter wants to come up here and speak apparently not Taylor Swift just came out with a new album so I'm sure that's what's going on right now all right the seeing No Hands we'll close the public portion and uh okay any other comments otherwise I'll ask from a a motion I'll move it I'll second moved in second and roll call please Mr Hagopian yes Mr dmer yes Mr low yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes Miss Mella yes Mr Brennan yes Mr Ferrara yes and chair Ken yes thank you better be beautiful it will be so that's it com okay okay do we have anybody from the public that would has any comments okay if not I'll close the public portion uh we I'm informed by our attorney that we need to go into executive session yes uh uh Madam chairwoman we do have an executive session to discuss this evening with regard to the Rd management pending litigation uh so if we uh can uh have a motion in second to move out of public uh public session into executive session I'll make the motion second okay move been seconded roll call Mr Hagopian yes Mr depalmer yes Mr lower yes Mr Rena yes Mr Petty yes M Mella yes Mr Mai Mr Brenan yes Mr Ferrara yes and chairman Ken yes okay we're in executive session just got to e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e