pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible andice please be seated good evening everyone welcome to the uh Township of Oldbridge Zoning Board of adjustment meeting mark Mar 7 2024 adequate notice of this meeting of the Oldbridge Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been provided in accordance with the open public meetings act at least 48 hours prior to the commencement of this meeting by prominently posting in the municipal complex an announcement giving the time the date the location the agenda of this meeting also by mailing such announcement to the home Tribune F filing a copy of such announcement with the municipal clerk and filing the agenda on the municipal website M belli could we have a roll call please miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier here Mr ISO here Mr scagno here Messa birie is not here um Mr Sing chairman Sullivan yeah um this uh testver a member of the board uh was had a medical uh um appointment and she's going to be a little late so we will have another member arriving I can't speak as to the other two uh as a note the meeting is uh televised on obtv uh channel 15 here in the township uh simultaneously this is being recorded for YouTube live so if you uh ever want to see the meeting again you can look it up on YouTube under Oldbridge Township zoning board if you're going to speak tonight any reason uh I would ask when you approach uh there'll be a microphone uh in in public portion please talk directly into the microphone and you'll be asked to give your name and uh address uh the other item would be everyone here I'm sure has a cell phone if you would please silence that at this point so we don't interrupt and interfere with the testimony and the capturing of the meeting by recording all right having said that I'll move on and uh we'll move to too many things that say uh the minutes would be first it's the minutes of February 1 2024 board members hopefully everyone has received that and had a chance to review it uh absent any comments or suggestions for additions or deletions I'd ask someone to move them for adoption move it scogna is there a second ISO miss Andrew second roll call please miss pelli miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes chairman Sullivan yes Mr Singh yes uh item four is resolutions it's uh we have one this evening 60- 2022 Z abilio and Elizabeth Tara was for a d variance amended uh yeah Mr chairman this is uh for um the property known as 2075 Englishtown Road in Oldbridge um it's block 24204 lot 26 um this application was heard um on December 7th and January 4th um and we have it on for approval tonight it's been amended copies have been circulated in advance to the board members if anyone has any questions be happy to address them um but it is on on for memorialization um the conditions are the typically the usual conditions that we would see in here uh and also that the applicant will return to the board on a bifurcated application within six months from February 15 2024 for the site plan approval and any additional new variants relief in the future applications as the applicant teams necessary uh this is on for approval tonight Mr chairman thank you Mr Clancy board members hopefully everyone has had a chance to reread the amend it and and if so I'd ask someone if they feel comfortable move it for adoption please ISO is there a second Andrews roll call please miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes excuse me Mr Sing yes chairman Sullivan yes uh under applications uh the very first one that's listed is not going to be heard I'm going to read into the record it's 50-20 21z it's obnj LLC the it's in the edo1 zone block 1069 lot one physical location 69 Highway 35 for it's an apartment addition they're seeking a preliminary final site plan with c and d variance uh if you're here in the audience uh about that matter it is not going to be heard this evening uh they have asked for an adjournment and then it's going to be adjourned till June 6th 2024 there'll be no further not so if that's what you're here for this evening again at 69 Highway 35 that matter has been adjourned it will be rescheduled June 6th no further notice uh know about MCB too in Cas there's anybody yeah if you're here there's another one on here if you're holding an agenda and it's the last on the agenda this evening it's 44-22 3z that's MCV landscaping that's a low density residential R20 lot 11257 Lot 4 location of that is 4244 County Highway 516 that's for homebased landscaping business requiring D variant uh the applicant proposes to operate landscaping business in the rear of the subject property uh the applicant uh owns that property and resides in a single family house on the property the application has been adjourned uh and the public hearing will be on April 8th if you're here on that matter there will be no further notice on it uh it's not going to be heard this evening it will be on the agenda April 8th okay we'll just give people a moment to walk out I'm sorry that has that's out of the board's uh Power when somebody asked in Germany ail April 8th thank you all right uh I'm going to take things out of order a little bit here I'm going to call 69- 2023 Z candido Carrasco uh someone here they're not here okay um we could actually handle this without that uh there wasn't going to be uh I'll refresh the board's memory this was the driveway um let me call it uh call it actually in 214 Cindy Street extended driveway it's block uh 15584 lot 600 the seeking see variants this was carried from January 18th 2024 there was a denial by the zoning officer uh they wanted to legitimize a 12x5 x 24 driveway expansion that was done without zoning approval and it was installed at a zero uh zero uh setback from the sidey where five is required board you'll remember that the I believe it was a husband and wife that had come in uh apparently they were Una aware of that and said that that was what the contractor told them uh we have received information and I personally saw many of them on that road apparently that have done these type of uh expansions on their driveway when that development was first built it was a single driveway in a single garage and very few families only have one Cars nowadays so I guess people took it on their own unfortunately you should seek guidance on that if you're going to do do that if you're watching at home anytime you would do something it's a lot safer to just call the zoning or I mean the building department to find out how you have to properly do that there may be nothing that you have to do but then there may be something in this case there should have been something uh as a result of that the board asked them to leave that night and continue was a suggestion that they go home uh think about what they want to do are they going to um mitigate it by cutting 5 foot off the driveway or they're going to cut something off the driveway in support of the application the neighbor uh who would be affected uh on the zero zero U setback on the property line spoke on behalf of it that he had been a good neighbor uh he was aware of it and he had no problem with it as a matter of fact they had spoke about it um other than that uh he said that there would be no there could be no uh runoff and that's one of the pro one of the issues that zero setbacks created because what happens when you have an imperious surface such as asphalt it makes the water go somewhere and we can't allow Water by ordinance you can't have the water going on someone else's lot in this case his lot was higher and built up so uh once again we invited them to go back as a result of that however uh on February 15th a memo was authored by the uh by Venus want the township planner and uh subject is uh 214 Cindy basically uh I don't I can read the whole thing it's not too long at a public hearing dated January 18th for the above mentioned application the board rais concerns over the existing and proposed zero foot driveway setback from uh side property line on subject property in order to help the board make an informed decision on the matter the planning and zoning office conducted a review of the relevant ordinance section and neighborhood we also had the engineering office review The Proposal the subject property is located at 214 Cindy Street block 15584 l60 and located fully within the R6 Zone pursuant to article X design standard section 25077 a2a off street parking spaces together with appropriate access th to shall be provided on the same lot as the building is it it is intended to serve parking facilities may be located in any yard space except where specifically prohibited but shall never be closer than 5 ft from any sidey yard or rear yard property line any deviation from this section of the uh Land Development uh ordinance requires a design waiver and not a variance the zoning P of adjustment has the authority to review such design waivers and Grant if deemed appropriate uh this application is to legitimize an existing driveway 12 by uh 12 foot 5 12 foot 5 in by 24t that was constructed without permits with a zero uh foot setback uh in the case of a driveway two primary reasons for requiring a setback are to provide privacy to neighbors and accommodate storm water runoff and or to alleviate any drainage concerns a setback from a driveway creates a pervious surface between the property line and the driveway that allows for natural absorption of water in most instances however this is not the only designed option the above above regulation appears to be more apt for non-residential developments than single family homes as it is included under off street parking and loading which mostly applies to non-residential developments since the section does not specifically call for non-residential developments it's been uniformly applied to both residential and non-residential developments in the case of residential lots it is somewhat impractical to require a five foot setback for driveways especially for smaller Lots we note that the zoning board has recently received numerous other applications with similar request and upon review and recommendations of the zoning officer the board has granted such design waivers knowing the volume of applications receive with similar requests one of the recommendations to the township council with the 2023 annual report shall be to revisit the above mentioned section of the ordinance and make exceptions for smaller residential lots or when driveway design has been approved by the engineering office upon site visit we noticed that there are several other properties within the neighborhood with zero foot setback from the driveways uh see a figure below which is uh appears on this memo the engineering office has reviewed the application and does have uh does I assume does not have any objection to this driveway being extended to the property line although a grading plan is unavailable based on the site visit it appears that there will be not be any potential damage drainage issues on the property or the neighboring property additionally in the past uh there have been no drainage concerns from the area or neighborhood has confirmed by our engineering office the neighbor was also present at the meeting and testified in support of the application the proposed deviation will not substantially impair The Zone plan or its intent and the granting of the waiver will not have any negative impacts on the neighborhood as shown above in the figure there are numerous other properties within the neighborhood that have similar driveways the proposed design therefore is consistent with the homes within the neighborhood the design of the driveway limits the discharge of uh storm water runoff within the property only thereby creating no negative impacts p uh please feel uh free to reach out to me with any additional questions so board members I'm I'm sure everybody had a chance to read that I wanted to read it into the uh record for the public and those who may have uh issues of this on their own this would not require a variance but a design waiver so we could have a conference on that if you would like to talk about that uh I'll ask Mr uh okay yeah um I would ask Mr Clancy to advise us on that uh what we did and what we should now do because we didn't take an action we asked them to go home and look at it so if um they don't have to be here obviously for this to occur but the board can consult on how we should handle this correct and either either issue the design wer or not yeah um there was an application that was started there was testimony that was put forth um I believe we're coming up on the on the time limit on this as well I'm going take a at this believe one of the reasons why it's on for tonight I believe is is at March 12th if I'm not mistaken is when when this is due so action one way or another should be taken by the board otherwise it becomes a default board members any comments on my left no none rosan Miss Andrews go ahead yeah how does this affect the uh the survey and when you go to sell the house your your your property line goes to the property line um will there be anything I don't know how that goes with title companies I don't know whether they want to Ure for that I don't but I can't speak to that uh we did say that uh and that that would be an issue but yeah I mean we I don't believe we required him to submit a survey for this um usually we don't for something along these lines when it's a um somebody from the township just coming in as a resident making these applications but um if the house goes to get sold obviously the title company would require a survey if the survey found there was some sort of deficiency there it would have to be they wouldn't it wouldn't clear title for them so the up the owner stays on the on the owner of the property to either correct it at that point in time or you know if it's there for a very long time it technically could be you know so the adverse possession or something it's up to them to if they're selling it if there's a problem they have to fix the problem before they can sell yeah to comply with the title company with Title Company's requirements which they're they're always kind of required to uh to clear clear title before they close on the property to make sure the lot is nothing affecting the town no should not be affecting the town yeah would not come back to us we're not authorizing them to go if the board would act favorably on it they wouldn't be authorizing obviously expansion over the line only authorizing up to the line it was it's it's onus is on him to make sure he's correct or okay yeah thank you any other questions so it would just be a plurality vote for uh whether we would authorize a design waiver right correct or Grant a design waiver I should say correct all right anyone interested in moving uh a design waiver approving a designed waiver for this property Andrews I'll move it is there a second ISO moved in second roll call for the waiver Miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scog yes Mr Singh yes chairman Sullivan yes all right the next up would be extra space management Mr uh wikas Scala yeah hi chairman John wcala it's great to see the board tonight St you might want to sit Mr it's not picking you up yeah here we go so again John with is scol good to see everyone um I'm here tonight on behalf of Extra Space Storage uh this is uh tonight was supposed to be the continuation of our hearing board may recall we started uh actually started and finished uh with all of our testimony uh at the February meeting uh we had a transcript prepared of those proceedings which have been provided to the board uh and I was here tonight or I am here tonight to really just provide kind of a summary and a closing statement and board deliberation and vote uh I am aware that at least at the moment there are only five board members I'm going to give you some good news before you um waste too many more words uh the other member is on Route 9 and should be here momentarily okay my suggestion is that we'll take a quick uh recess we'll reconvene and we'll put you on then we can move on with the other agenda for All American Ford which would be the only other option very good that's okay with you Mr classer we can take a little break I I appreciate your patience everybody all right uh for those at home we're going to take a quick recess while we wait for our other member to arrive in the building we'll be back soon e e everything just went off we have returned from Recess M pelli could I have a roll call please certainly Miss Andrews here miss Chevalier here Mr ISO here Mr scagno here miss tester here Mr Singh here chairman Sullivan here I thank the two attorneys for uh their deference in allowing us a brief recess uh so we'll continue back on with the agenda 52- 2023 Z Extra Space Management the CR Zone block 4185 Lot 1 physical locations 1,1 US Highway 9 Oldbridge this for Ste Self Storage major preliminary final site plan of T variant John wik ccala Esquire representing the applicant sir hi good evening everyone John wi is Scala on behalf of Extra Space Management Inc it's my pleasure to be back before the board this evening uh we are before you seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval as a chairman indicated with both d and C variant relief to permit the development of a second three-story climate controlled self- storage building on this property uh this is a continuation of the hearing that started uh back on February 1st uh we actually presented our entire case uh that evening uh the board may recall we did not have a court reporter here that evening uh though the proceedings a mistake we have not made this evening so uh I'm happy to report uh but we were permitted to proceed because uh you do a simal cast on YouTube uh and our we were able to have a court reporter prepare very uh comprehensive uh verbatim transcript and that's been provided to the board so uh on February 1 the public hearing was closed uh it was agreed I'd come back this evening uh provide kind of a summary of the application a closing statement and then it's uh up for board deliberation and consideration by way of background and reminder subject property is about 6.3 acres in size it's currently developed with a three-story approximately 10 12,315 square foot climate controlled self storage building with Associated improvements uh there is an outdoor storage area and some outdoor uh structures as well uh the existing building improvements that you see out there today the building itself uh was actually approved by this zoning board back in 1998 uh those approvals were later amended in 2001 project was constructed shortly thereafter it was originally a storage USA and then extra space acquired storage USA so they've been operating this facility for about 18 years now um again we are seeking preliminary final site plan approval uh the new proposed building uh is similar to the existing building it's three stories in height uh and it's approximately 72,900 Square ft uh it actually has a building footprint of 24,179 square ft um and again we're seeking uh part of the application we're seeking validation and approval of the existing outdoor storage units that are within that outdoor storage area uh the new building is proposed on the Westerly side of the property uh closer to the route 9 ramp uh it's actually on the opposite side of the property from where the residential apartment community is located may recall our engineer testifying that that existing building actually provides a visual buffer uh for the residents to that uh that new building uh Self Storage is permitted as a conditional use in your CR Zone District uh however we don't meet all of the conditional uh use criteria and while it was approved the existing building was approved by this board there were some modifications to the zoning ordinance over time uh the result of that is our application does include a D2 D3 D4 and D6 uh variants and that relates to the to the expansion of a non-conforming use the conditional use criteria uh F variance and the D6 variance as to height um and the additional bulk variance relief uh you did hear the testimony from our project engineer uh last month Matt kman he provided detailed testimony uh regarding the existing site the existing conditions and then all aspects of the proposed development including site location access which really isn't changing uh building coverage the floor area ratio the lighting the Landscaping the signage for the project and storm water management improvements uh Mr kunsman noted through the exhibits presented uh that we are going to be proposing a minor realignment of mlet away that's really just to enhance uh circulation uh through the site um and he also noted that there are no changes to the business operations our hours of operation are going to remain the same our number of employees to uh that that would be Manning the office uh serving both buildings uh would remain the same uh over the course of Mr Gunman's testimony we did go through all the review reports uh from your uh your board professionals uh and really agreed to comply with all of the technical review comments or some of them were were comments that we just need to work with the professionals on items like landscaping and the like uh we did agree and the transcript Bears out to to a number of conditions a lot of them were you know we're going to do all the storm water comments Etc uh I did go back through just to hit on some of the highlights anyway as the board considers the application uh one of the conditions uh that we agreed to is to provide a cross access easement over mleta way of course so long as our neighbors we have a willing neighbor uh uh to work with um and of course any such access agreement would be subject to the review and approval of your uh your attorney um as I indicated we're going to amend the plans we had an exhibit that that showed it but uh that that realignment of malleta way to provide for better circulation uh we're going to work with your board professionals to enhance the landscape areas we actually had a revised landscape plan uh your planner pointed out that there were also some areas where it looks like trucks over time may have run over shrubs and so forth so we're going to just work with your Professionals in those areas and candidly anywhere to to address any additional landscaping and buffering comments uh we are going to remill and repave uh mleta away as well uh somebody noted that I think they felt like their axle was going to break off uh driving through that area so uh so that that's one item uh there was a fence Gap noted uh somewhere on the site I forget exactly where we're going to make sure we close that up it was really just an oversight by our Engineers we're going to modify the storm water management uh onm manual the operations and maintenance manual to address comments uh and I believe we're typically accustomed to recording that document so it becomes a document and an obligation in perpetuity on the uh on the Deeds for the property uh we did receive comments from the Fire Marshall uh we actually reached agreement with the fire marshall on all of the items he had identified they were items you know additional hydrants uh modifications to uh fire lane striping KNX boox those things uh there's also a uh he had recommended that in a assuming it's approved in the post approval condition uh we would do testing to make sure that the emergency broadcasting or radio equipment uh is sufficient and if a booster is necessary as a result of it we would provide that too uh those are really just a highlight of the ones that I picked up from going through the transcript there may be more in there uh but I just wanted to point those out uh you heard from our traffic engineer Paul ging he went through uh the traffic testimony spoke to the low intensity nature of this use and really the low traffic generation that's associated uh with with Self Storage which was one of the the reasons and really part of the justification overall uh for why we can have a project such as this why we can have floor area ratio variance relief because it is such a loow intensity uh use from a traffic generation perspective and he also spoke to the uh to the parking variants we have uh and demonstrated that we have sufficient parking for this type of use uh our project architect went through rich penena he provided overview of the elevations and the floor plans the building signage lighting uh I know the board members had a number of questions I believe it was actually well received looking back through the transcripts somebody made a reference to the Jetson uh relative to the building uh but uh you know I think he addressed all the board's questions uh and finally you heard the test testimony of our project planner probably the most important witness uh addressing the uh nature and extent of the variance relief uh Christine cfone was our planner uh I certainly believe her to be one of the preeminent planners in the state and Miss cfone went through uh all of the uh requested variances the D variances the C variances uh she determined and concluded in her testimony that where necessary we meet both the positive and the negative criteria associated with those variances uh basically that the variances can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good that the benefits outweigh any perceived detriments she believed that these variances could be granted without impairing the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and zoning ordinances of Oldbridge so you know overall we think this is a a great project uh for Oldbridge uh my client is a long-standing member of this uh business Community uh it's an opportunity for them to to expand their business uh at this particular location without having any delerious impact uh no impact on Municipal Services no traffic impacts uh and we think aesthetically it's it's a nice building and a nice addition uh here to the community and uh we would hope with that that uh that the board would find fit to Grant approval uh if anybody has any questions um I'm happy to answer them although the hearing is technically closed uh but if anybody has questions concerns um I'm I'm here to listen thank you Mr W SCH uh board members if you do have a legal type question there is not going to be any other testimony tonight the the the record is closed however feel free to ask a question if it concerns something that you have in your mind that you're not certain about I'll start on my left if there's anything no on my right okay uh having said that you're you're resting correct I am resting okay board members I'll invite everybody to make any comments if they want I'll make my own first uh this was uh an interesting application I want to thank you and and and your Professionals for the presentation that you made to us uh the building I believe was first approved as we were told in 1997 uh I think your corporation that you're representing took over in 2000 or I believe it was 2005 200 five so we know the existence has been there for a long time uh so that approval was granted we know it's existed for a long time and apparently he's done rather well in its business because otherwise I don't think they'd be asking for an expansion but I think that speaks to the times and I think that speaks to um younger generation more transient living style than uh occupying a home that's why there's such a need for these storage places and if you travel around the state at all uh which I get a lot of chance to do they're going up all over and uh you were previously here and represented one as a matter of fact and I know that these are important to people because when you have an apartment you got a lot of stuff to store and once again I don't think the corporation would be investing money in it I was happy to hear the presentation and and when I you had four Witnesses uh and you you briefly spoke about them and I was going to do the same thing in the sense that the engineer each one of them walked us around that project in in really a great Manner and it was it was very easy for me to understand and I think it was very easy to the board to understand and I think each one of them had a little piece of the uh quilt that they were sewing and the starting with the engineer of course uh with the with the actual uh build and then of course the traffic engineer adding his piece of the quilt and uh finally the architect uh doing his but I was really impressed when it was all wrapped up and it was woven together by the professional planner and I think she made that very easy to understand um she went and took the time to talk about the D2 the D3 the D4 the D6 and we normally don't have applications in front of us when you have four out of six so uh I don't know that we'd ever have six out of six but I hope not but four out of six is pretty pretty big but uh I think everybody understands them most of the people have been sitting here uh understand these these types of uh commercial builds uh personally I think the the site is suitable uh the proposed use I think serves the general welfare of the community um I think it can be granted without substantial negative detriment to the public good or the Zone plant um I really don't have anything negative to say about this other than I'm glad that it's going to mirror image uh which I think is more important I asked a question I recall on Direct testimony well I see a big difference in this one I ride by and you say unless you really looked at the building and studied it you wouldn't know that it's now almost doubled in size so uh I I I think it's I think it's good for the community I think it's a a need for the community and I think it's the right place to have it done so I will stand in support of it uh of course this has to go to a vote as you very though I'll start on my left if anybody has any comments they don't I'm good on my right Mr Clancy any comments or questions no looks like we have D2 We have well we have D2 three four and six which we would have to start with individually Y and then I believe there are C's bulks there are there are bulks and I believe you have two design waivers right I think that is correct yes so on bulk I have the um 75 foot buffer where 34.2 is proposed we got a landscape area ratio uh 40% where 37.8% is proposed there's a pre-existing non-conforming which we should include it's a 50ft buffer along the uh res residential area it's at 225 there's no change proposed for that but we should include it to legitimize it um 15% of the facade of the storefront so they're installing a uh 73. 58 Square facade sign on the building and a uh 18782 square foot facade side on the uh rear of the building does that mirror what's already there uh well this is the new this is the new building so yeah this is the new wall signage we also had sign on the East facade of 5.8 square fet and actually two on that North facade oh yeah it's actually that's the that's the next one coming up on here yeah we're also installing uh two 5.8 SQ foot loading signs on the East facade of the building um underneath that we have a a 3.97 foot office facade sign um that's going to require variance relief and then we have two design waivers it looks like the um uh for the for the lighting for lowest foot candle value at any point um not to be less than 1/3 of the average value and uh here we have uh lighting that produces 0% foot candles where 1.4 foot candles is actually required and the other waiver is for um loading space Dimension um 10x 16 with 15t clearance is what is uh required and they're um recommend are they're proposing 20 by 20 I think that I just took that out I took that I took that out of uh the uh Engineers memo correct so I think we're all on the same page with that right correct okay and and just and I would just make note because we did speak to the uh front yard setbacks off street parking lot coverage etc those actually were part of the D3 because they those are conditional use standards a lot of times we just deal with them as additional bulk variances but they're within the uh use area and the only other one I'm not sure we uh minimum loading size 10x 60 required 20 by 20 yeah that was the last one I was sure waver right yeah I I think I listed it in the notice as a variance just to be careful two design waivers right there the two the two the last two on that I read yeah for the foot candle uh issue and the um the minimum dimensions on the loading spaces yeah okay all right that leaves us with uh starting to take a vote uh would have to be we'd start at the number D2 that's expansion of a non conforming use someone interested in moving that for approval test verie is there a second ISO Mr ISO roll call as the D2 Miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes Mr tester yes chairman Sullivan yes D3 conditional use test is there a second seconds Andrews roll call please miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes Miss tester yes chairman Sullivan yes D4 floor area ratio and mo mo Andrews mosit second scogna roll call please miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scogna yes Miss testy yes chairman Sullivan yes D6 height variance ISO move it Andrew seconds ISO moves it roll call okay Miss srews yes M Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scog yes Miss tester yes chairman sullan yes Mr Clancy can I take the Seas as one bulk uh yeah we've already read them into the record unless the board has any questions as to what we're voting on it would be the we'll do them as a as one vote on all the Seas bu and the design waivers I guess can we include the design waivers have them separate I don't think they need to be separate you don't care they'll all be together someone want to move them they' already move it second is there a second ISO roll call please miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scogna yes Miss test yes chairman Sullivan yes now we have major preliminary and final site we have to separate those two Mr Clancy major preliminary I'll move it is there a second is ISO roll call please miss Andrews Miss Chevalier Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes M tester yes chairman Sullivan yes final site plan once again I'll move it ISO SM ISO seconds roll call Miss Andrews yes Miss Chevalier yes Mr ISO yes Mr scagno yes Miss tester yes trond Sullivan yes thank you very much everybody I appreciate it we'll have a transcript prepared we'll submit it I'll get a copy to your office as well I appreciate that yeah thank you again for your appearance Mr scol thank you great seeing everybody appreciate it can we hold in place on this or do you want a five minute break one and a half minutes we'll stay in we'll stay here while the stenographer needs to uh change something in the meantime I guess good night the uh next application can come up to the table and we'll just wait for the stenographer to be ready before we read anything in got it well I think that was two minutes only a king it was a minute and a half uh this is the final application for this evening it's 50-20 23z allamerican Ford that's located in the 03 Economic Development opportunity Zone block 16 0000 Lots 4 6 11 and 15 point I'm sorry 6.11 and 15.11 location 61 Old Amboy Road automobile storage and Service Center major seeking major preliminary final site plan with a d variant applicant proposes to construct a motor vehicle service building consisting of approximately 13742 Square ft as well as the construction of a parking field consisting of 382 spaces for vehicles Peter clauser representing the applicant Mr clauser uh good evening Mr chairman for the record Peter clauser with the firm H Pap on behalf of All American Ford uh this evening I have the pleasure of representing All American with regard to their application which you described Mr chair it is a preliminary and final site plan approval there's some bulk variants and waiver relief which we'll go through and there is D relief um it's D3 uh relief this is a conditionally permitted use in the zone so it is a use that's contemplated for this Zone there are seven different conditions in your ordinance we meet all of those conditions with the exception of one there is another deviation which after going over it with my engineer we can actually eliminate uh so the only condition that we do not meet is a pre-existing condition for a parking lot buffer to Old amb booy Road that is there and was actually approved by the board uh previously back in 20145 my partner Ken P got the parking lot approved uh on lot 6.11 uh which is on the plans uh and at that time the the relief was granted for that buffer violation the second one which we're able to eliminate is interior on Lot 4 there is a parking area and a bit of a retaining wall that actually encroaches into a setback uh but after like I said after talking to the engineer he said I'm not sure how I ended up having that 4 foot difference I can get rid of it I said great get rid of it so the what is proposed by the applicant aside from the existing uh buffer which is there and is not going anywhere and has nothing to do with this application is completely permit it uh under your ordinance and as proposed there are a few bulk variances which we'll talk about but they don't relate to the conditions of the variance relief it's very important for me to say this because your zoning board the reason why we're here is because we need that D3 relief but the focus of that relief that you're granting has to be on the buffer that's pre-exist existing in the zone not the use that's coming in the use that's coming in is conditionally uh permitted uh with that one exception um lot four is a lot that we are a contract purchaser for um that is a lot that uh has a little bit of trouble in your zoning department uh there's been some violations on it there might be a little bit of a contractor's yard out there that doesn't belong so I get to be in the position where I didn't do it we didn't own it but I get to come in and get rid of it uh and minate that use so we're under a contract um to buy that lot that contract is contingent upon approvals uh granted by this board um lot 6.11 which is the lot where the building is proposed is owned by allamerican lot 1511 which is on Old Amboy Road uh is leased by allamerican from tar realy so those are your three lots and your three owners Steven Hol is the owner of of lot four um so the applicant is proposing a service center um the service center itself is what is the conditionally permitted use car dealerships new car dealerships are also conditionally permited uses but the dealership is not the subject of this application this evening um I have five witnesses Rich Savino uh who's with me is the owner of All-American Fort and he's going to talk to the board a little bit about the operation and how it's laid out and how it's going to work because the lot that we're proposing for storage is for service Vehicles not for new car storage and the lot that we're proposing and the service center that we're proposing has no public has no customers that come to it all of the interface will continue to be as it is now on the dealership lot that doesn't change only employees will be coming back to this lot and there's no storage of parts inside of the service building the part storage stays on the dealership side so when a part is needed it will come back to this lot by um the employees will be brought back there so it's important to understand those things and and Rich will testify as to all of those then we have Scott Turner who's the applicant engineer he's designed um the site for us and Scott actually before we came in front of this board because as the board may recall from the prior applications there are wetlands back there we went to the D and we actually got delineations before we even came here so we we're not guessing we know where where lines are um so that's significant and then we have Ed essay who's the architect when you have a dealership like this your architect your owner of the dealership work closely with Ford um Ford has a brand and they want particular architecture so we've we've gotten that we've gotten those approvals and the building is designed in a way that um it will be constructed in the way that you're shown um I have Scott Kennel here uh to discuss traffic uh and the impacts uh of the proposed uh use but as you heard this is not a place where public is going uh and then lastly we have more remmo who's the applicant's professional planner and he'll provide you with the um testimony that I think is necessary uh for you to Grant the variance relief that's requested so if I could I'd like to start with Rich have him sworn uh and then uh just stay on the record his relationship to the applicant and then we'll take you through the operation on the site and while we do that if we could bring up the overall aerial um because I think it'll be helpful for pointing and poking Mr Clint um Mr Sao we're going to swear in okay okay You' raise your right hand please you solemnly swear that any testimony my microphone on do you solemnly swear that any testimony you provide before the board will be the truth and the whole truth yes I do okay you can put your hand down just State your full name for the record please sure Richard Savino sa a v i n o thank you Mr Savino Rich what's your relationship to allamerican Fort um one of the owners one of the owners there I'm sorry let's stay in the the microphone I'm trying okay so rich we have the dealership the proposed building and the proposed parking lot tell the board how it's all going to work how it's supposed to work can I can I do it on that there you certainly can get your portable mic do we have a portable yeah I think there's one set up yes okay I don't have I don't have a pointer so it's easier would the board rather see it from there or behind you uh for the public maybe yeah for the Public's best interest too why don't you just use the pointer and sit there sure rich is recovering from knee surgery okay uh I don't have the lot numbers memorized so I'll just go by simplistic this is the dealership okay this area here is the service write up this uh parking lot here it's existing and I think uh Peter mentioned that's owned by Tara realy we own this piece of property which is where we're going to propose to put the building and this is the lot that we are under contract for or trying to get on the contract to purchase the utilization of this building is for service only there'll be no customers there there'll only be employees there's no parts delivery there's no vehicle delivery everything happens over here on the existing piece of property so as the customers come and get written up in this area we will move the vehicles over here and into the new piece of property and they'll be serviced over here uh and again it's a minimal amount of employees maybe six to 10 employees tops there and again there's nobody from the public that's permitted in that property everything happens over here and as the service vehicles are are repaired they'll go into this lot over here um again emphasize that there is no deliveries here no parts deliveries here no vehicle deliveries here uh and everything will happen out of the main building as it does today then just to clarify the the lot where the service building is proposed I know you didn't memorize the lot numbers but I did is six no where the service building is proposed is lot 6.11 and it has a parking area surrounding it right and then lot four in the back is the lot that you are under contract to purchase okay that has a parking field proposed right those two parking Fields will be occupied solely by service Vehicles correct well this one will be this is existing new car inventory that'll remain there there's not much space there but we could have new cars there but not in the new property and lot 1511 which is the front lot is new car storage which is which one you're talking about that's right on Amboy Road Old Amboy Road got it toar Realties lot this one here yes yes okay not good with the numbers I'm sorry no no that's okay Mr class would you just have him point out where route n rout and ambo rodar and then probably to the very North is that the property of the Elks Lodge it's not in there it's on the it's on this side yeah okay and then route nine is right out there in front of the dealership I just want everybody I just want everybody to understand where that runs pretty quickly into Route 18 right there thank you so that's the out that's the proposal there were a few items that we needed to get on the record that this was an employee only area employee parking only area um there's no public parking it's relevant to some of the conditional use standards but we we do comply with them uh and that this would be storage for these the service vehicles on that lot 4 um so rich is available to answer any questions and I'll make sure that he's available for when the public speaks so that he can answer any of those questions as well thank you we go to the professionals first first if they have any questions thank you Mr chairman just Mr Dar just a few questions as far as just clarification of the operation as I understand it um so customers will come drop their vehicle at the main building M um and they that's where they'll get checked in and and all that and then from that point a service uh employee will will take their vehicle across the road across ambo Road and parked in in the storage lot then it'll be worked on and then it stays there after it's after it's been worked on until the customer comes and to the again back to the main building says I'm here for my car and then an employe goes runs gets the car brings it back for them to take again from the the main building correct just one thing I want to add to that it's very low volume this building here this is all service here this is surface here and this is all service at that end so from a volume standpoint it's minimal I would say less than okay 15 20% of the people will actually be serviced in this building so there but you are correct what'll happen is this is a drive-thru which from an aerial shot you can't tell and they'll drive in they're all written up there like you said all the documents all the paperwork and the minimal number of vehicles that come over here will be driven by my employees and putting that L okay so I think after they worked on go here and we have valet service so when the customer comes to pick up their car here our valet will go get it and bring it the customers do not go into the LOD I I think that explanation actually helped to answer my next question because the number of spaces seems like a heck of a lot of spaces right 382 just on Lot 4 alone so I was wondering why that small service building would require such a huge parking lot for for for vehicle Su but you're saying you already have service facilities on the main lot that are going to continue to operate so that's why you need such a large service storage lot well um we're also because of this building this has all been service parking in here right all along so with that size building and you know the right Tak some of those spaces I get it we need the spaces over there for that and you know to move some of the product over there okay and and you estimate about 15 to 20% of your actual service Vehicles service will be done at that building so the amount of yes yes okay but you still will have I guess the cars that get serviced at the main building would they also be parked at this on this site because it's such a large lot possibly not not all of them though I guess the question that you know that answers the question as far as the size of the lot that sort of you know satisfies that Curiosity I guess uh but then the other question becomes the the the amount of vehicles that you're going to be Crossing across that road and and what's that traffic look like um I guess would your engineer be speaking to that uh I'm not sure with that not but I can answer the question remember this is all service parking now without the building and so is this so the volume that's already coming over here will only be increased roughly 10 to 15% and the only difference is where the building is they instead of parking service there they'll put them over there okay so the 10 to 15% is really that's how much is going to increase as far as traffic goes yes okay Mr chairman I don't have any other questions so what so the larger parking area right it will be meant for only vehicles that are serviced and are waiting to be PR picked up or there will be new inventory that stored there too no there won't be any new inventory it'll just strictly be vehicles that are in for service waiting to come in the shop completed and outside the shop but then for that purpose isn't that a lot of parking unless you're anticipating that you will be servicing those many uh Vehicles because from what I hear is the front parking lot right and the one surrounding that service building is already being used for vehicles that have been serviced in the main facility right if there is 10 to 15% increase for that 10 to 15 % increase do you really need that huge parking lot is the question uh there's something missing well the oh yes the answer to that question is yes I need that lot if you see this lot here this is where service vehicles have been parked and this whole area over here so if you just mathematically or by your eye you'll see that this isn't as large as these two so yes I need that parking now no I I mean my question is if you're testifying that the net increase in the vehicles that are going to be service is 15 to 20% then whatever is being used so far is being used so for that's existing for that 15 to 20% increase do you need that big parking lot or there will be other vehicles too that will be stored on that parking lot because one thing I know is there are a lot of cars parked on either side of old damb boy Road does that mean that those that are parked on the street will go into this parking lot or is there some other use because otherwise just for the 15 to 20% increase it doesn't make sense no but well no what what's you have to I want you to understand that right now this area is used for service parking and so is this area we want want to utilize that to put on new and used inventory there to sell so I'll be able to move these cars these cars these cars and here onto that new property now it makes S I was trying to get to that but yeah that's the idea all all of these the area that's really for new car storage is currently being occupied by service you want to shift it to that back lot not all of it but a vast majority of it because I find it a little challenging that you know patrons are com to the main facility dropping off the car a valy is then taking it across the street because it's not like there are four or five vehicles that are going to be clubbed together and are moved it's like every individual trip that will be back in forth from being so a patron coming to the service center uh an employee taking their car driving across the Old Amboy Road into this new parking lot and then once once it's ready it's coming back this there will be a lot of back and forth between vehicles and how does that impact traffic or circulation within that area well again that's happening today all the vehicles that are written up here are taken across the street here or here so we're going across Amboy Road already the extra volume could be maybe 10% more but I mean we all know that there have been issues on all Lambo Road right with the parking and the traffic so I'm just trying to understand if there was a better solution to it because in theory although this service center is completely accessory to your principal use or the principal facility in reality by definition it's not an accessory it stands on its own and it's and so I'm I'm sure you want to defend it that way too so then why have patrons go to the main facility and do the and have employees do back and forth it's just a question but it happens now even if we park a service car here or here our employees have to come get it the customers do not come in this lot they do not come here and they do not come for the service Vehicles it's just a courtesy that all the vehicles are picked up are driven across the street by our employees and delivered to the customers the customers pick up their cars around here so this here is a wash bay so we wash all the service customers so we are moving on the property and across the street already so there is movement the difference is this is minimal addition to that but what it does is it frees this lot up frees here up frees that up and where we put the building to utilize that so yes we do need that as as a matter of fact when the engineers and we first uh were interested in the property before we got into having have Weds and things we were looking at 450 spots so we're down I think to 350 yeah so we need we need every one of those spots so so I guess to an maybe because I think I kind of understand what your your testimony is so to maybe answer what Miss Miss savant's question was with Regarding why don't we have customers come to this facility directly rather than having them come check in is it your operation where maybe your your employee sort of decide depending on the type of service that's being performed that they who goes where as as far as what the where as far as the cars like that'll be determined by it's not predetermined that the customers don't know hey I got to go to the building in the back today it's it's basically your employees determine whether they're going to go to some facility in the front or whether it has to go to this new facility in the back so that's sort of why the customers it's not predetermined where the customers have to go right okay well it depends on what uh jobs that need that's what I mean we the right it's determined by you know your your employees actually a dispatcher but yes yeah okay and then as far as the actual numbers of vehicles is that something Mr kennel will be testifying to Mr Mr clauser he will certainly be providing traffic testimony and the impact of this proposed development okay so we'll hold off on questions about specific numbers of trips back and forth and all that sure to that point okay Mr chetal yeah the uh the one question uh was I guess that will be answered by the engineer is the actual number I know we're going up 105 20% from what it is now but what is it now that's you know how many cars are going across back and forth across from from the front buildings to this back area that'll you know that would be a question that I would have and then that's going to go up another 10 know 15% whatever and keep in mind it's all it's it's on private property circulation we're on Amboy Road for 20 feet you know going across well is it your driveway is line up directly across I mean you're just going across ambo Road you're not on ambo Road for any distance pretty much yes pretty much not exact but pretty much yes we don't we we're not there's a uh see this here right that driver we don't utilize that one because we utilize the one over here but when the facility is up we use that so the so the driving on amboid road into here is actually going to be less because that we to go straight across so it'll be more straight across movement on Amboy Road than it will be up and down Amboy rad okay I it it's still I guess it there still it's not a direct line across you're you're you got a little bit of a dog leg move there to a left you know a right left or a left right along ambo road to to go from one side to the other well what what lines up though is from the dealership ship this so we' be traveling not on Amboy Road we'd be traveling in on a lot okay so you're saying you would go straight across Amoy Road and into basically yep okay Mr Sereno knowing how these dealerships work you have a lounge in your place for people that come in and are going to wait for their car correct yes that's in the main Hub in the main building mhm they only bring their car and they put in a spot you don't want them you don't want anybody except your employees moving acoss anywhere no let alone driving across the street definitely not and it's probably going to be confusing if you were to do so oh it would' be uncontrollable we we will never do and I think you have a pickup service and a drop off service that people get picked up at a certain spot and that's outside the outside the area where you would drop off right over here that's pick so that's the nucleus there that's where you want everybody you want them to go sit in the lounge while you get an oil change or whatever they might happen to be doing you don't want them traversing your property definitely not and and it would probably be unsafe I would think okay let see if anybody else has any questions on on my left you're always in your compound right always on my property yes you're not cruising up and down Amboy Road definitely not you're on your own because I'm familiar with that my own little world yes right um Subaru is also going to be Subaru is over here right but they're going to be same thing ipating with that yep okay not serviced there there'll still be serviced here but they use this driveway so that if we need the parking will just move through the property and then you'll free up you'll free up your lot yes for new other inventory I mean honestly I don't want my employees on Amoy Road the less the less because you know the less chance of something Happ chance it happens on my property I'm sorry my property got good Mr Mr scagno yeah it just seems like a lot of a lot of parking spaces to me I agree I mean it's a mixture right you're going to have service vehicles in there and new vehicles no no let me from from you do a lot of service business we do a lot of servers business but on the other side uh in a perfect world every customer that would come in we would have the parts and we would have the technicians to work on it so if 100 came in 100 would go out that doesn't happen in the real world 100 comes in and there two or 300 always either waiting for parts waiting for customers to pick them up but that so that's why you need that kind of space it's not that I'm going to work on every one of those cars every day it's that they can come in the shop we have to order parts they could sit there for a week or two so that's not that's not a ton of spots for the operation that we're running right now vehicles seem like a problem the vehicles aren't a problem getting the parts might be a problem yeah I mean it's a lot of spots just for service okay Miss Cher yeah so on average do you have a a number you could Supply us with how many cars you repair on average in a week well approximately 100 come in a day so is 500 a week a week right that doesn't mean we finish 500 a week I got it I was there trust me I had my car fixed there it wasn't one day did we do a good job no you did but it wasn't one day that's why I need a lot to park your car there yeah so but these front Lots now you're going to put new cars where you're putting the service cars now you said uh across from here you mean yep I could utilize some of it for new cars yes well are you uh it depends on the volume of new cars we have this and what's not on the map is I have the8 Acres on 18 where we park the majority of our new car I I know where that is too but like I said are are you going to put cars there I mean that's kind of important what you're going to do with with that part uh yeah we'll utilize this for new cars we utilize it now for new cars we have a fenced in if you're familiar with the area over here yeah that when we work on emergency vehicles or town Vehicles we get them locked up over there so part of that's not going to change we're always going to we're required by many municipalities for ambulance and and uh police cars that we keep them locked up and secured so that's really that part of the lot this year I don't really anticipate a lot of new car being parked there and then at the very bottom you said right there service area too right yeah the Subaru the Subaru service area is a little bit over there not much but yeah okay Miss anges I'm just to get uh no I'm just trying to to visualize it because there are some residences over there if I'm not mistaken the Elks is there there's the the apartment building then there are some these are the three proper residential that's the only three that are there just those there are residences there yes okay these three right here how is that going to affect them shouldn't affect them at all we're not going that way past their houses we're going here and in there and their residences are also located in the same Zone the same Edo Zone I Know Rich said it residential but it's not it's commercial and how long has all americ Ford been there uh as far as I know back to 1975 and do you have any idea how long the residences have been there no I don't I'm sorry can't speak from the audience sorry sorry thank you T vering I have Mr Clancy Jim I have a question no I have nothing Mr go ahead so we have been discussing here because one one thing I noticed there is an entrance towards your existing parking lot right in not exactly uh straight uh ahead of the uh driveway opening on the main facility but looks like you don't want to use those two entrances to the existing parking lot but instead you're proposing to have the driveway entrance you're closing the two towards Spring Valley Road but you want to use the one next to the residences why is that no I have no intention of closing any of the drive there's I believe there's one here correct there's one here and there's one over here so but why not why not then use those for the cars to go back and forth because if you have two curb openings in front of each other your cars are going straight across the road where you're not disturbing the residences right now with the way it is proposed your cars are are going to Traverse North on Old Amboy Road and then enter into the new driveway no no I'm sorry if you mis understood this driveway here which is existing for this property we have no intention of using that at all there are three that's driveways here and there's three over here they don't line up exactly but they're going to come from this property either in that one that one or that one so maybe we can actually get get that clarified when when when Mr Turner or Mr kennel get up for their their test because based off of the site plan the way the way that the site plan lays out with the parking and everything the new access or that that access that's highlighted up top is basically shown on the site plans as your main access um based off of the operation this here yes there's no intention to that any type of exit or entrance okay so so then what what I would think that makes sense would be for that to be some sort of emergency kind of entrance for bsy vehicles and and and for it to be sorry if I was misunder using this never I think the way the exhibit is displayed it makes it feel as if is the primary entrance so I'm like why would your car not just the exhibit the the site plan right cuz there's parking shown along where where where you're saying you want to access there's parking shown on the site plan there so according to the site plan which is what the zoning officer and everyone would look to if if this were to get approved the site plan shows parking there and it shows this driveway as your main access onto the site I I I really think that that needs to be clarified and the accesses should be very clearly shown and perhaps that that access that we're shwing to the north there you know sort of minimized and shown as an emergency only yes no problem okay Miss good okay you have another way I do go to another witness bring up Mr Turner thank you go hobble back thanks okay how doing sir I'll swear you in raise your right hand please Solly swear any testimony you provide before this board it be the truth and the whole truth I do okay thank you can you just state your name for the record please Scott Turner T NE R thank you sir Scott um Mr chair and board members I'm presenting Scott as a professional engineer so I'll ask Scott if you could just share with the board your license your educational background and your your work affiliation sure I am a graduate of the New Jersey Institute of Technology I hold a Bachelor's of Science degree in civil engineering I have 30 nearly 35 years of experience in the field Feld of civil engineering and Land Development uh all of my time with men low Engineering Associates I am currently a principal engineer uh for the firm I'm a licensed professional engineer in good standing I will accept your credentials I know you uh you've appeared before here many time I thank you we have a new member of the board I wanted him to hear the credentials and of course those what be watching at home so thank appreciate that appreciate it so Scott you have the benefit of hearing some of the questions we've already heard but I want you to go back to you know zero and start with the existing conditions and and the the proposed layout sure and then we can get into some more of the specifics sure so the the the plan that's up on the uh on the screens is the same plan that's on my easel that I brought uh just quickly for the record it is titled All American Ford existing conditions exhibit I believe it has a date of I want to say 21524 I can't quite see that uh we can mark that as exhibit A1 if you'd like to do that sounds good What's the title of It All American Ford existing conditions exhibit thank you so just for point of uh reference and again uh for the purposes of the record it is a block one 160000 Lots 4 6.11 and 15.1 one uh the total property contains 19.5 acres and and that is the area not the proper dealership lot that's the areas of the three properties that have been in discussion so far uh the property itself has uh approximately 900 ft of uh Frontage along Old Amboy Road uh which is located in this area here and then another 125 ft of Frontage uh along Old Amboy Road uh up in this uh most northeasterly Corner uh which was the the area of question with that new driveway uh there's also Frontage approximately 4 30 ft of Frontage along uh spring Bley Road uh at the uh smaller uh parking area located in this location here um for purposes of references uh New Jersey State Highway Route 9 is up in this upper right quadrant uh Spring Valley Road is down in this lower uh lower right quadrant here all of the wooded areas that you see uh within the existing uh properties here are all encumbered with freshwater wetlands buffers and or flood planes uh that's why you do not see any additional development within these areas around the existing parking lots on lot 6.11 and 15.11 uh there are also regulated features at the rear of Lot 4 uh the most westerly uh section of Lot 4 for and there is additional freshwater wetlands in that general area as well uh there are three uh single family homes that are located uh adjacent to the uh the property itself and with Frontage on Old Amboy Road uh there's a large wooded complex and Tree Service Company uh to the west and uh commercial properties to the South uh including a uh newer built Hampton in hotel the Oldbridge Elks and the uh wooded property are also located immediately to the north of the property and there's a Wawa gas and convenience store uh that's located uh you know next to the um allamerican Ford dealership online and they too have access out onto Old Amboy Road so the site is also subject to the edo3 economic development opportunity 3 uh District uh it's it's subject to their zoning standards and as pointed out the application does require a conditional use variance and a number of C type bulk variances so we'll go back to lots 6.11 and 15.11 which is these two here which were the subject of a prior approval uh that property does contain an existing parking lot a slender lot along Old Amboy Road and then a a little bit larger of a lot uh at the rear of that and immediately behind that on property is an existing storm water management uh Basin uh these properties are operated by uh allamerican Ford as testified to there are oh and there also is another small parking lot that I pointed out on Spring Valley Road which is going to remain there are roughly 520 parking spaces uh located on those two properties so I think there's more spaces than you might think is there but there's roughly 520 spaces uh existing on that property um and uh the access points on uh Old Amboy Road uh there are two existing uh driveways that that lead out onto Old Amboy Road and and they may be a little hard to see but there's one I believe in this location here another one a little bit further up so there's two points of access existing on Old Amboy Road now and there is also o an existing uh driveway from Lot 4 and that existing development on to Old Amboy Road so those are the access points uh leading off of these uh properties so Lot 4 itself is the property that's under contract the purchase uh it contains uh an existing what I'll call an existing contracting business uh with multiple structures on site outdoor storage uh with uh access from that existing Drive out on Old Amboy Road uh that property uh also has you know a number of debris piles and other things located uh within the area that's been Disturbed the rear of that property is uh predominantly wooded uh and the property drains predominantly in a Westerly Direction uh heading away from Old Amboy Road uh to the West into the rear of the property which is where we have our storm water Basin located and that is the area where there is an existing flood plane that we needed to manage and as just quickly as as previously uh pointed out any any of the structures the debris anything going on with respect to that lot and that activity will be completely removed with the application should the board act favorably on it before I move to the proposed conditions does anybody have any questions in regards to the existing site normally let you finish then we'll go to the professionals then save the board for the last okay so this is the second and last exhibit that was prepared by my office allamerican for simply entitled site plan exhibit again dated 21524 and we can mark this as A2 that's good okay so this this rendering here uh represents a uh Google uh aerial with the proposed improvements uh superimposed on top uh and along with the site plan you can see uh some various uh Greenery uh which represent uh the plant materials that are uh per the landscape land that was part of your package so the proposal here is to take the existing parking lot and remove some of that asphalt and parking space and replace it with a new one-story 13,743 squ foot service building that building will be 197 ft long and it will have uh 68t of depth on the North side which is the side where I'm pointing to and then 76 ft of depth on the on the uh South Side uh the building height is 34 F5 in uh there are seven Overhead Doors proposed on the west side of the building and there are two Overhead Doors proposed on the on the east side of the building uh and what you'll notice here is the the placement of the building and the placement of those Overhead Doors uh we we made great efforts to make sure that those doors were moved as far away as possible as we could from the residential neighbors next to us uh which is why the bulk of these overhead doors are located at what I'll call the rear of the building uh you know facing uh towards the uh the West um so the bulk of the activity with respect to in and out of the building will be accomplished um you know uh as far away from the existing residents as we possibly could get uh the building again I'll just reiterate uh does not have a service right up area there's no parts department uh there's no customer drop offs there will be no uh public uh permitted anywhere within this property um you heard the testimony from Mr saino in regards to the operations so I won't waste time dealing with that uh but but that this area is strictly for uh employees of the old American Ford uh dealership so when you put this new building in there's obviously a reduction of parking uh and there will be 335 spaces remaining within the existing parking lot after that building is built some of those spaces are the existing spaces within the area of where the building is going and the remaining spaces are within the areas that are existing today uh located in that parking lot along Old Amboy Avenue as well as the parking lot located on uh Spring Valley Road uh those parking spaces and parking lots will not be altered the driveways will not be altered uh there's no proposal other than some pavement work within the area to get some utilities into what I'll call the work area which is this lighter gray area which is immediately around the service uh building itself what is not shown on this plan but I do want to point it out because it was in the staff reports rightfully so uh is there will be a refu and recycling uh recyclable enclosure placed somewhere on this property uh it just never made it onto the site plans for whatever reason uh so but we will comply with that and and provide it and provide those revised plans uh to staff for their review so that that's what's really going on with respect to uh what I'll call the two existing Lots the the new lot in question which is uh furthest up to the uh to the north uh there the prop proposal there is to replace what's on that property with a new uh parking lot with 382 parking spaces uh as already pointed out those parking spaces will be just for uh the benefit of service Vehicles either being queued up waiting for service they're done with service but the customer not there're ready to pick up or it could be cars that are simply waiting there for parts to be delivered or ordered and they can't move the cars until then so that's that's what that lot will will be for uh the remainder of the Lots again down in these two existing Lots here where the service building is going will basically remain to be used as it is currently which can be either with display of uh new car inventory storage of new car inventory uh and or uh you know a queuing up of vehicles waiting for service but the the the bulk of those cars waiting for service or related to service is up in this new parking lot uh located on lot four uh now there is a driveway we did propose a driveway out on the Old Amboy Road it was never the intent to have that be the main focus or the main driveway into the lot it was simply there there was an opportunity to maintain it uh it's beneficial obviously for emergency services as well I think the testimony here is if the board is uh so inclined I I I feel comfortable agreeing that we could make that less of a more formal driveway uh and make it more for emergency services uh but it will be up to the dealership itself to direct their employees that when they come over they come over and use one of the existing driveways that are located on Old Amboy Road and circulate within this area in that fashion one of the other things that we did in here and I don't think it was ever talked about was there is a connecting driveway proposed between the service building area and this new parking field and the reason for that was that that would avoid people having to come out onto Old Amboy Road from this new parking lot making the right going down Old Amboy Road and then making the right into the existing parking facilities to get to the service building there's no need for that whatsoever they'll use this connecting driveway here and that was purposely done that way in order to keep people as much as they possibly can off of Old Amboy Road Old Amboy Road is a public road though we we want to I just want to make sure and I'm sure you're all understand that but it is a public road it is permitted to be used um so the activities that are going on there now um frankly aren't going to in my opinion anyway as just a civil engineer I I don't see that as changing all that much when we take the the reduction of the parking that's there now uh and we add in the new parking lot uh you know the numbers are such that we would have a grand total of 1,700 in spaces total uh once we're all said and done verse 520 that are there now so there's approximately 200 spaces being added net not 382 there's 200 you know spaces being net uh with this proposed development in terms of the uh utilities uh you know they're they're pretty mundane and and available here we have gas water Electric telephone services the all be brought in through underground services from Old Amboy Road we have no problem doing that uh storm water management uh the existing storm water basin that's there now will uh remain as is we're not touching it we're not increasing impervious coverage we're actually making the condition better in terms of water quality because we're taking away uh paved area which is a treatable area and replacing it with what in quotation marks clean water from a roof uh so we have that condition at the uh most westerly portion of the new parking lot on Lot 4 uh We've designed a uh bio uh infiltration uh Basin let me make sure bio retention Basin I'm sorry bio retention Basin uh to accommodate the additional runoff from the new parking facility we also have uh some porous Paving going in up in this area here that's been vetted out by a geotechnical engineer in terms of soil testing uh they did a number of soil tests throughout the property and in terms of for our purposes for storm water management and perhaps most importantly is the fact that this property and project has gone to the D uh and it's obtained its flood Hazard permits required and I will tell you with no uncertainty that it was an exhaustive review for storm water management um which they do and they make sure they hold your feet to the fire and you comply with everything they want you to where you don't get a permit we have flood Hazard permits we only have outstanding the freshwater Wetland permits and the transition area waivers only because they have to wait a certain for a certain season before they can finish their review uh but that would certainly have no impact on storm water management and in my opinion there's nothing that we have not complied with in terms of buffer averaging in those types of General permits the flood Hazard permit is the big one to get uh because that's the storm water review and it sets the limits of uh development on the property and we're there with that uh so once again we do have this cross connection we do have a 50-ft buffer uh behind the existing residential development there which we honor uh we're not within that buffer we've maintained that existing buffer uh there's also been some word about some drainage issues existing behind their property so what we've done is we've made sure we've got storm water up in that area we've also uh proposed to install one or two inlets within the grass area in that buffer uh to properly drain that area out uh We've also had conversations with your staff uh and agreed to work with them to make sure that we uh do whatever it is possible that we can to alleviate any drainage condition I will tell you the drainage condition is not a subject of anything that allamerican Ford has done it's just the product of what the existing condition looks like right now uh but the Imp what we're going to do to improve it will certainly in my opinion be an improvement over what's there what's there today uh for lighting uh we have a you know pretty standard lighting uh program all LED fixtures uh they're pole mounted fixtures with a 17 1/2t mounting height we do have some uh uh other fixtures around the building that are mounted at 18 ft uh we did provide the isolux calculations and lighting plans uh demonstrating that we are at zeros at all property limits we have no impact in terms of that I understand light is lighting and it you're going to see it but uh in terms of values there will be no spillage off property onto other other properties specifically with respect to the the neighbors uh the residential neighbors itself um they're all dark sky compliant lights uh they'll be set on timers uh so that there's security lighting only really at the you know uh after dusk uh and they'll be set not to come back on so uh we we'll comply with all of those requirements uh for landscaping uh we've done as as a significant landscape plan I think as we possibly can uh all of the existing wooded area that you see on the exhibit now again is all the regulated Wetland areas that can't be disturbed or touched uh we have the 50ft buffer behind the homes which is also an existing wooded area uh we are proposing a substantial uh supplement to that existing buffer with additional evergreen trees and Shrubbery uh We've planted we leave as much as we possibly can within that area uh and in terms of the total site itself we're planting 175 trees 466 shrubs along with some ground cover plantings uh and that does not take into account all of the plantings that go into the bio retention Basin as part of that design uh and once again we are supplementing that buffer uh behind the homes and along the side leading up to Old anoy Road uh heading uh what is to the north East uh with additional uh plant materials uh to buffer the activity uh we're in again the Zone The edo3 Zone um as pointed out to you we do require a conditional use variance uh we also have a number of C variances that I would like to just read in to the record for the planning testimony of our planner all right so starting with the c variances I'm reciting uh the the the March 5th 2024 review letter uh from Mr Dari and from Miss Sant and uh from uh Mr trell uh from environmental resolutions I'm on page six down under the bulk variances section I thought it would be just easier to use theirs as a guide um so number one is the maximum front yard setback the maximum permitted setback in this zone is 50 ft uh it's a little odd it's a maximum not a minimum uh so the applicant is proposing and it get it's a it's a service building not open to the public so uh in my from an engineering point of view uh I I really don't see any um detriment to that particular variance uh the second variance is the minimum parking area landscape buffer from a RightWay uh which is required to be 25 ft I think there might be a typo in this it should be uh we are existing non-conformity at 15.9 FT and that's the buffer area between the parking Edge along Old Amboy Road and the right of way old am of Old Amboy Road so that's not 21 ft it's 15.9 ft now Scott I just want to stop one second right there that with that particular bulk variance that's also the one standard in the conditional use standards that we do not meet as part of this application that is correct yes so we just show the board that one more time with the pointer along that existing line right as parking lot should be how far back 25 ft and as part of the original approval back in 1415 uh it was granted to be uh located within uh you know 14.9 fet thanks I just wanted to start 15.9 feet I'm sorry 15.9 ft good yep yeah uh third one is rear and side Lot line uh parking area setback uh as Mr K clauser pointed out we had shown uh some parking and there's there is a retaining wall in this very corner right there um again for um you know it's the most uh Southwest uh parking lot corner of the new uh uh parking field on Lot 4 uh we just missed the fact that it was a little too close to the property line uh and there is a retaining wool in that area too we will agree we'll eliminate that variance by either moving a couple of those parking spaces over or we'll have to lose a couple of spaces uh and we'll make sure they are outside of the buffer uh now I I what I'm not sure of was whether or not the retaining wall can be within that area uh and I didn't see anything that would say it could not um the reason being is that we this area along um the again the uh the South Westerly side of the new parking lot here um there is that the parking itself in the curb line honors the 25 foot setback but there is a retaining wall it's a it's a lower height wall but there is a retaining wall nonetheless along that side that is within that buffer so if that still requires relief we're seeking it but I didn't see where retaining wall could not be in that buffer so it's been um this board and the planning board's practice that that retain walls are structures basically the qualifi structures and that so that's the reason why um we noted that as a variance okay so we would still request variance relief for that condition because I have no way possible to get that wall out of that buffer I just we couldn't fit the parking rows that we've got within that area so that's that's why and it's relief that we've requested already it's just we can get rid of a portion of it we just can't get rid of all of it the fourth one is the commercial building and parking area setback uh which is the minimum required uh setback from A lot's principal commercial build building is 15 ft uh we're proposing a parking area setback from the principal commercial building of 0 ft from the principal commercial structure this was another odd one for me um so what I'm because we don't have any particularly on this side south side of the new building here right off that building is the service driveway the circulation driveway going around that building because the driveway is touching that building and and of the other sidewalks that we have we have you know sidewalks around most of this building here but they're 7 ft wide you know or so they're not 15 ft wide which would be customary for a a a commercial structure uh that is open to the public this is not that case as you've heard uh so we do seek relief from that uh from that uh particular section in the ordinance there is no parking the physical parking space is nowhere near that it's just the it's the driveway which is considered part of the parking area and I think that that wraps up the the bulk variances uh for the purposes of our planner uh and for the record uh I'm moving on to page seven uh the design waivers uh as we do have some design waivers as well that I'd like to just discuss hey Scott one I apologize sure just one one thing any want to interrupt while you're still on variances uh we did note one additional variance uh as we were we were preparing here this evening uh as far as the signage goes um it and maybe the architect can address this um with regard to you know showing the board but I think that we should note that um the the uh zoning the ordinance proves one facade sign but the according to the architectural elevations I believe there's three actual facade signs the the area isn't isn't in question it actually even all three signs sum are less than the permitted area but the number of signs is is just one that's permitted and and the plan proposes three okay we we'll let the architect describe the signage y uh I can tell you though it's it's certainly because of branding requirements you know Ford and that's imagine I imagine that that'll be the testimony but since you were listing the variances I just wanted to make sure that we got that on the record with all the rest of the variances thank you you appreciate it okay design waivers page seven uh the first one is bicycle parking spaces for bicycle racks and I'm going to sound like a broken record and I apologize but it's again because of the fact that there are no it's not a public space it's not open to the public uh you know employees are going to be shuttling back and forth from this location frankly we we would like to seek the waiver from providing bicycle racks we do not believe they would be used U the second one would be the sidewalks so sidewalks are required uh to be integrated connecting all parking areas throughout the site uh the second condition is sidewalks should be at least 5T wide along both sides of all commercial streets the third one sidewalks which are at least 5T wide shall be provided along the frontage of the site that one we are going to agree to do we'll add the additional sidewalk along Old Amboy Road on on our side on on the west side of old Amoy Road along these frontages there is some now uh that ort of connects the parking area that's down by Spring Valley Road it turns the corner comes up gets to a uh like a midblock crossing and that's where it stops we're going to agree to provide the part the sidewalk along the remainder of our Frontage with all required Ada um handicap ramps and the fourth one is sidewalks which are at least 12T wide provided along the front access area to commercial buildings that sort of goes hand inand with that variance that we were talking about again because it's not open to the public we do not have uh those spaces and it's just a matter of geometry and how the building fits within the area that we're allotted here and in honoring buffers and the regulated uh features with on the property so uh items two one two sub one sub two and sub4 are waiver requests sub three we do agree to comply with uh the third uh item is sidewalk shall be constructed along all streets and again I think that goes hand inand with the one we just spoke about that we're going to add it to Old Amboy Road uh item number four lighting standards upon which lights are placed shall be spaced a distance of approximately four times the height of the light uh so the lights are 17 1 12 ft High requiring spaces of 72 feet uh this I did speak to uh missan Mr Dar about this and u i I don't want to put words in their mouth but I do do believe they're in agreement that's that's sort of an outer an outdated ordinance the photometrics that are available to design lighting now are much different than they were then um so there there's more lighting standards that we can utilize to provide what's needed in terms of lighting uh minimum lighting standards without having to add all those additional light poles because that's what that would be to comply with that we'd have to add additional light poles and we don't need them frankly because we can comply without them and we don't want more light thank you that's what I was hoping you were going to say okay item number five which is listed as a waiver uh applicant uh which utilizes uh non-resident use which utilizes approximately 1,000 ft or more of land shall include Provisions for collection disposition and recycling as I testified before we will be adding and complying with that requirement moving to page eight number six parking spaces are required to be 10 by 20 uh we are proposing stalls uh within lot for the large parking area at 82 by 18 um that is very customary for a use of this type uh whether you're storing vehicles or storing them for service it doesn't really matter they don't get moved around frankly a lot they sit there and get moved once in and once out and for service and that's about it so it's just a matter of efficiency and uh you know we we it's that's not a an a customary type of of uh condition for parking spaces they won't be moved by anybody else other than the employees of the dealership itself uh number seven curb radi adjacent to traffic close should be a minimum of 5T we will agree to comply with that we do not need that waiver and lastly well it's not lastly uh appendix G schedule of minimum floor loading requirements uh we are required to have a load space uh we do not we're requesting the waiver again because of the uh the the way the service dealership is going to be used there's no parts there's no deliveries any parts will get delivered to the dealership itself and then you know shuttled over to this location so there honestly is no need there's no office space there's nothing here uh so there's no need to have a loading zone because they won't be delivered to this location and there was a couple others that were within this uh in this letter that didn't get listed up here as waivers but I do want to point them out item number nine is a parking lot Landscaping requirement 20% of the gross parking area is required to be landscaped uh we calculate that to be approximately 3 and a half% um and again it's it's a it's a non-public use it's a it's a storage lot uh you know behind you know for the most part everything that's out there now we believe we provided enough um supplement the Landscaping in the areas frankly that would benefit more than the parking area itself we focused all our landscaping around the existing uses on old amb boy Road uh rather than introducing more within the parking area that nobody really is going to see uh the last one is parking lot shade trees 70 ft on Center and our plan provides uh shade trees within the parking lot but they are variable spacing we do not comply with a 70 ft on Center again for the same reason that I pointed out just before so those are the variances in the design wavers uh the last thing I really have is to just just quickly mention the staff reports the March 5th 24 letter which we were talking about here uh I have no other items in that particular report to uh respond to or to discuss we agree to comply with everything that's there or work with staff we did have a meeting remote meeting with staff and go through which is something we try to do um and uh was very helpful we went through the staff reports and again miss Sant uh Mr Dar your office anybody has any questions we can certainly go through it uh but there's nothing in terms of me satisfying what's in there and getting that accomplished um the last letter that we got the other other letter we got was from the fire uh Bureau of fire prevention District number three from Mr Matthew B uh this is dated January 31st 2021 uh we recently reached out to him a number of months ago Mr clauser and I met with uh Tom Hart at his office we went through the plan we reviewed it he had asked us to provide him with a fire truck movement plan which we did he asked for a hydrant or two on the property which of course we agreed to comply with uh since that time we resubmitted back to uh Matthew um we gave him the same truck movement plan he has indicated to me um through an email that the truck movement plan is satisfactory anything else that's in this letter we agree to comply with um while we're on the staff reports there is a request in the staff report that the Lots be Consolidated right um we have no issue consolidating uh lot 6.11 and lot four those will be under our control I can't take lot five 15.11 it belongs to somebody else uh but functionally the two lots are are working 611 and four are working together and after if we take title if the board grants it will consolidate those two lots but I just want to be clear that I can't pull in 1511 to it but the other two certainly Scott if you could you you identify the the driveways on on the existing conditions plan can you go through the driveways as they are shown on your site plan and how they compare or pair up with the driveways on the dealership side yeah it's a little it's a little hard to see but this there's a driveway that's located in and and our plans did not clearly show it and that that's my fault and I apologize we'll make it more clear but there is an existing driveway in this vicinity here that lines up it doesn't line up exactly but it lines up fairly close to the driveway uh leading uh into the uh dealership lot itself there's another existing driveway that's more you know noticeable down in this location here which is the most uh southernly um location of the existing lot uh parking area along Old Amboy Road um that does also sort of line up a little bit with the driveway that's across the street as well so there's not a lot of movement in my opinion up and down Old Amboy Road they're going to continue to do what they do today I would hope anyway and they they that's the only driveways they have to utilize and that's what they would utilize uh in the proposed condition Edition and then once again we do have that driveway up at uh the new parking lot off of Lot 4 which I I believe you folks will discuss in terms of how you want that handled now those two driveways that are on lot 1511 uh on your based on the the comments we received before that there's some parking shown in some of those areas you can amend the site plan to show those as as clear driveways so that they can be used as uh means to go across Amboy Road without actually driving on to Amboy Road yes correct I have uh what you are you talked about the D Mr chair and Scott really went through everything that we had sort of prepped for and and just make clear that all the technical requirements in the memo other than the ones that we highlight it we can comply with so he's available for any questions that you or the professionals may have Mr do thank you Mr chairman I just have a few questions and and Mr Turner did provide just about all the testimony that our our memo requested we we have quite a few comments in our memo uh where we request testimony and so far uh there's a few items which I believe the you know the other witnesses will testify to but stuff that we asked Mr Turner to specifically testify to has been provided and we did meet um missant our office did meet with the applicants and their professionals to to discuss our technical comments so I'm confident that they can address a lot of the technical comments I do have some questions regarding the accesses onto the site um as I look at the the aerial and the street view it looks like there's a lot of cars that sort of like block most of the accesses getting onto the site so you can see why we thought you were proposing the the Norther access as your main access uh because even on the street view a lot of the accesses are blocked by Vehicles which I'm assuming or presuming are either Vehicles belonging to the dealership or their employees is so is that going to be alleviated as part of this uh this application since we're creating space um I understand it's a public road totally get that but it's a public road and it's not really meant to be part of the business operation right so you have employees and and either they service vehicles or new vehicles being parked all along that roadway some of them are parked perpendicular blocking that driveway that you're talking about um again it seems to me that that's that's sort of you know impinging on the Public's use of the roadway yeah and look that's that's to me and that's that's always a tough one because it is a public roadway it's an Enforcement issue I mean if it's it's not really an enforcement but we're asking your applicant to to not do it well yeah and that would be up to the applicant I'm sure he would attempt to do that and I'm I'm also sure it's probably hard to control all of his employees that may be there and it may not be pche frankly it's not only you know it may not only be his employees uh but again I I can't speak to that because I just don't know there are there activities going on in that area but yes we can we we can revise the site plan obviously clearly show the existing driveways move the cars within the parking lot so they can't park there the whole idea behind this design was to make that cross connection driveway so that they would not have to use that driveway from lot four um which means that they have to have the other driveways open or this doesn't work so they're going to do that that we will have to because the driveways will be there nobody along Old Amboy Road should be parking at that driveway they shouldn't block the driveway we can certainly make sure we check site distances and make sure that we stripe areas that we need to based off the driveways if that's how the board would so choose Scott yes I couldn't resist um it is a public right of way but it's not meant for vehicle storage by a developer right of course so if you are in front of the board and I think should the board act favorably that should be one of the conditions that you know your vehical storage should be on your property not on a public right of way so it's not the question of just blocking your driveway but it's also about storing Vehicles along Old Amboy Road because if it's a public right of it's meant for other people to park too but what I notice I've been going through near maps to at least like four five years the roadway is completely Park like all all the it's it's Ford's cars that are parked on the street so um there's there's no issue with that condition thank you none at all thank you V you have anything else no I would let Rakesh speak I I just took over I'm sorry that's all right I I I was I was pretty much that that was my only only real comment regarding the engineering Mr tet yeah I think uh rash pretty much took you know asked my question which was the concern of uh how the you know you have two existing driveways at the South you know in this portion it isn't clear on the plans that they're now still going to be reused which now we know they will be the one thing that's noted that's been noted and I see on the plans is the not the southernmost driveway but the next one up right now is actually Park striped for parking spots so those have to be removed if you're going to be used used functional the other thing is that if you're going to be building sidewalk along that side of the road and putting ada8 ramps you'll be rebuilding those driveways so you have the opportunity if there is a little bit of an offset compared to the driveway on the east side you have the opportunity now to line it up exactly so the cars are going straight across and not not any kind of a dog leg maneuver here yeah I and I think I can agree to review that look at that we'll you know advise our client what that means but I I don't see how that's a significant impact in terms of you know what we're looking at here I believe the one to the South the southernmost driveway is a little off is a little off we can clean that up in in fact closer to that southern driveway I see over years there has been a lot of stuff that has been stored so I'm assuming with these site improvements there there will be Cleanup in that corner because I see a trailer parked I see few trucks parked there um there is quite a lot of clutter yeah this give us some room to breathe right because there are there are times when it's that area so as you enter the site from that southernmost driveway to the left um it has cars parked like literally there's no room and that and that I think that's one of the reasons why we're here and why they're making this investment is to provide some relief uh you know I think they're busting at the seams quite frankly is what's happening and that you see that more dealerships than you may think um especially when inventory gets back to the way you know hopefully it'll get back to at some point uh so need more space and that's what's why the the parking it's not just uh new cars I'm not talking about the new cars uh there's a lot of junk that over the years I see being stored in that corner you can't really identify what it is from the aerial it looks like it could be materials pallets right who knows what it is but the idea is the intention of your application is for vehicles to be parked and stored there not things that should be indoors correct right correct yes so could you would that be an acceptable condition of approval that really you know clean up thata clean up that we we don't want things stored there other than Vehicles if you have large I don't even know what it is you can't really identify it looks like some sort of um totes and pallets and things like that we'd prefer not prefer but we request as a conditional approval that that stuff not be stored yeah yeah that makes perfect sense it should be for vehicle storage thank you and Mr Turner did I hear that you will be submitting revised plans for compliance showing or identifying those access points correct yes if the board acts favorably we'll of course revise the plans and show you everything that you're you're seeking and and as part of those Provisions you'll consult with us as far as what we're going to do to sort of deemphasize that the driveway to the north correct yes yes if you'd rather have it open all the time or if you wanted to make it more of an emergency access we'd prefer it to be an emergency access and have it uh either Chained and uh and that way it's not used I I that condition I heard from Mr Zino before would be okay I saw the thumbs up that's fine that's the chairman on that end I'm going to start by left questions for this uh for the engineer Mr Turner none Mr scagno no thank you m Sher no not well actually I do so we went into you said it's an enforcement it is on down you said it's an Enforcement issue for the cars that Park along the side I don't think it should be an Enforcement issue for Oldbridge to have to move these people I mean it's it's what I meant by that is it if there's a violation a clear violation if someone's parked in a you know across a driveway or or blocking somebody from getting out uh you know that that's an Enforcement issue uh but if the uh it's a public rideway and if it's not signed or restricted for parking uh you can park there I I totally get that you can't have All American Ford vehicles parked there storing cars out there that that's no uh but any anybody beyond that it's a public roadway and they can park it if if if there's an issue with that or somebody has an issue with that they can certainly go to uh the governing body I suppose and and seek uh to get that uh Road restricted in terms of parking so I guess I'm sorry M CH don't mean to interrupt I think the concern really is the employees and storage of vehicles I mean there aren't strangers there aren't people that are like patronizing the Wawa that are parking along that road they're clearly employees and vehicles associated with the dealership and what we're saying is we'd like as a condition of approval should the board act favorably that cease we have no issue with that thank you that's that's that's the main main point got it yeah there's no issue with that condition understand the issue we understand it and I think there should also be signs put up by you guys to remind the employees that park there and everything else that it's a no parking Zone you know even if they're slightly off on your property it's still they're blocking the road there understood I'm not sure if we have the authority to put up signs that would prohibit parking but we can advise our employees not to be doing it and we would agree as a condition of approval to that yeah I mean you know and like we said too in the areas no employee parking right on your fence so it's clear understood so if there is a violation we don't have to hear anything if they're getting written up for a ticket or toad got it okay no am I right good none Mr gling no you had one question I didn't ask before and I wanted to uh earlier and I know whe you're the person asked for if it's uh the owner is it going to be used for auto body repair on there there's no there's no aut body not public yours your Auto Body service Serv proper on the main building the new building I'm talking about not on the new service building no mechanical only mechanical only okay thank you my go ahead Mr chair it's 9:49 I know you have another witness ready I have I have an architect I have a traffic engineer and I have a uh the planner when are you thinking of telling me I have to go home because then I can pick what witness I I would never be that disrespectful I would hint at it but I would never be that disrespectful come out and say it you have 10 minutes because by rule we have to stop at 10: for any new uh testimony to allow for the public okay so let's in which case we last till 10:30 okay but if you want to start a witness I'm telling you you have 10 minutes okay or if you'd prefer you're going to have to come back anyway if you'd prefer start that new witness aresh when we come when we meet again I think the architect's testimony is probably 5 minutes okay so it might make sense to get him out of the way whatever you want yeah it's he said he's laughing I don't know what he's laughing at he's laughing at you I think well I think the board should be able to see the the building so if I could I'll bring up adasse go ahead you got 10 minutes you can if you want to bring up another witness that's fine by me thank you Scott everybody always picks on The Architects Edie such a wonderful job describing the building board attorney will swear you in sir you raise your right hand please yes sir sir do you solemly swear any testimony you provide before the board will be the truth and the whole truth I do okay can you just state your name for the record please sure it's Edward a eae 44 Lincoln Avenue hathorne New Jersey thank you sir and if you could just share your license with the the board and your educational background and get you qualified as a architect thank you um licensed uh excuse me graduated New Jersey Institute of Technology 1980 Bachelor of architecture minor in civil engineering I've been registered in the state of New Jersey in 1984 New York 85 Pennsylvania 85 and Connecticut ' 86 been in private practice in 1986 also a registered professional planner and I'm also a retired construction code official from the burough of Morris Plains which I was here for 24 years we'll gladly accept his credentials and we thank him for putting them on the record Ed if you could just chair of the board the building you designed sure uh once again I want to say thank you I've been here over 15 years on and off we've done all of the work at that complex and it should just be established that a lot of the things we do when we do a building are a direct result of what Ford mandates to us and what I mean by that is we struggle to try to get the shape of this building where to put the doors where to make sure we had colors where we had to mitigate what they wanted and what we felt was important to our neighbors so that's why the building has the shape it has the look and it has the color that it does we recognize the sensitivity of making sure we didn't have six or seven doors facing our building right now we understood what that was for the people who live to our Northeast so what we did is we made an L-shaped building uh in plan which basically only has one door facing our main complex now we tuck the other doors around the back facing the wooded area Ford came back to us with um many revisions and changes and then came up with a color scheme so what we did was on the elevation Scott not that one the other one are we marking any I'm sorry A3 was was my floor plan sir got it which was A3 this is going to be A4 which is the uh elevations part of them and what we did was we actually had a mockup made because we wanted everybody to see that unfortunately through even digitation it doesn't come out and read as much but these are going to be the colors of the building and they're exactly the same as what we've designed previously uh at the main building so I brought this down so everybody including people at home and also in the audience can see exactly what we're doing the building as we said before through Scott's testimony was the building is 34 ft 5 in tall it's a metal building it's fully fire resistant there's going to be two feet of masonry on one side of it so when they plow snow it doesn't damage the metal building but it's a metal skin building we've pitched the roof towards the majority of the doors which is the wooded side we didn't bring a frame or a Gable we have a mono pitch roof so the water will be mitigated on one side away from amb Way Road the building itself as been testified before will not have any customers coming to it will not have any parts drop offs and everything will be literally transversed by the employees of Ford after the cars are written up in the existing building I should say the customers cars are dropped off at the main building the customer goes home maybe sits out at the lounge if it's an oil change and then then the car comes across with a person from Ford and then that person will then take it back through a valet there are nine doors we also have his and her laboratory changing and locker room areas we have a break room and we have the Necessities such as a masonry compressor room so we can mitigate the noise we have a sprinkler room and we also have an electrical room the size of the building from a footprint is um 13,743 because of the fact that these buildings take a lot of abuse the inner walls will be masonry so we're taking advantage of the little pieces we've carved out for the actual nuts and bolts of the operation we're going to have a mezzanine of approximately 1,624 Square ft it's going to be poured in place there'll be no wood framing everything's going to be m masonry steel concrete can be fully air conditioned the doors will be closed when they're working so once again we're trying to come up with a neighborhood friendly building we also did not go to the maximum height for the building in the area we're well under that because we felt we didn't need to do anything more than the 34 feet 5 in in height once again the positioning of the building is on the one corner I should say the the Westerly Corner more as per Scot's drawing and what we did was we only had one door facing again Amboy Road where we have the backside of the main building that we've been part of the entire time we talk about signage as a matter of fact All American literally reduced the Ford corporate sign size but there are certain branding that has to be done for this type of building which we showed again on that fourth uh plan which or fourth exhibit which was my drawing A1 Ford actually wanted the signage to go across the whole front and they wanted all of the doors my client absolutely said no way so that's why we wound up with the small blue portion instead of the whole thing and we also wound up with only the one door the door on the rights of mandoor but the only one drive-through door because Ford's branding needs a door with the the actual name of what's going on so we only put one there we tried to get it where they were all put around the back but Ford said no we need some sort of Frontage so we put one door furthest away from the neighbors and again all tucked by itself thank you I have no further questions for Mr as he's available Mr dorg I have no questions yes sir Mr one I'm sorry did oh I'm sorry I have I'm sorry I have no questions nothing why am I forget your name Mr on Andre oh yeah I have no questions I'll go to the board on my left nothing nothing on my right just Clancy no I have nothing I have nothing and that's my last witness for the the thank you thank you Scott fores you gave so what I think I'm going to do Mr chairman we're we're going to go in the audience and we're going to listen to the public and I'm going to pay attention and I'm going to be prepared to respond to their concerns uh members of the public were very nice uh to me before the hearing and uh were able did speak to me a little bit and I I understand some of the concerns but uh Board needs to hear them I'll I'll be prepared at the next hearing to respond uh to them uh when do we when do when do we want to make an announcement that we're carrying it do after the public is over we'll do that okay let me get out of the way okay Mr tetral I I apologize it's I finally found it in front of me again it's quite right I'm GNA uh yeah you GNA bring that over okay all right this is matter 50- 2023 Z old uh All American Ford located Amboy Road uh this is the public portion so I'm going to invite anybody from the public that wishes to be heard concerning this application please raise your hand or walk forward we'll take one at a time as I stated earlier please speak directly into the microphone board attorney will swear you in before your testimony um can you raise your right hand for me please do you solemnly swear any testimony you provide before the board will be the truth and the whole truth yes okay can you just state your name for the record Michelle Marie Carrera Michelle there go c a r r e r o thank you what's your address 53 old Amway Road Oldbridge New Jersey 08857 thank you Michelle go right ahead what would you like to tell the board okay first of all number one the parking situation that we were just talking about they have they're they're proposing to put 382 New spots in they're supposed to put the building in did they mention where their employees are going to park is there an employee parking lot because they just park on the street if they're going to put another building in that means they're going to have additional employees and they're already parking on the street I think they saw the pictures from the Google Earth they block off the entrances they they is there not supposed to be a sight triangle when there's Ingress egress yes how far is the site triangle for Ingress egress is it like this is IT Park is it parked inside the Ingress egress if you look at the Google Earth I mean I think I believe you guys pulled it up there's no employee parking so they Park all along the street and they basically just said that it's a public Street and they can park wherever they want but they have car carriers which my neighbor is going to show you lots of pict pictures of all this stuff and when I come through every time it's like they think their employees actually think that that's part of Oasis Ford because there's a Street between it and they don't even look both ways when they fly out with cars and almost take the front of my car off hit somebody they almost hit each other when they're walking across the street they want all this parking for cars that are not occupied by anybody but do they care about their employees they have not said one single word about out their employees and where they were going to safely Park their employees cars so that their employees have a parking spot because if I recall correctly when they applied for the variances to put in the different lots that they have right now at the end of Old dboy Road not the you know the huge parking lot there's a little lot that was supposed to be designated for employee parking it's not they were supposed to put some parking spots behind the building building where it came across all dboy road instead they said park on the street I don't know when the last time the gentleman that owns the place was there but I've never seen him any time that I came in and complained and nobody ever even told me his name and when I complain they tell me this oh well the only thing we can do is talk to them and then they don't talk to them maybe it stops for a minute but it there's no they're using Old Amboy Road as basically part of Oasis for like shouldn't the board put no parking signs from the township there since when you let them put the the apartment complex there you guys put no parking when you put a away when you put Wawa there you guys put no parking why do they why are they privileged what what are they are why are they privileged that they can park on the street endanger my life every time I have to go that way or come in that way it this just doesn't make any sense they didn't say anything about their employees nothing nothing at all when they when you guys allow them to put that pervious coverage in the back that was supposed to be a storage lot that again the owner that I don't think has been there says that it's where the cars are serviced go back there right now it's all brand new cars that are in there actually I'm sorry it's not brand new cars it's brand new tow trucks that are back there that are parked back there when I opened my windows in the summertime which I've complained about a million times they said they're going to have valleys that are going to run back and forth correct yes I asked them could you please number the spots so that they can say this car is actually parked here give them the number they give them the number they go out they get the car but no no no no you know that thing on your keys everybody got a brand new car you know the panic button that you're supposed to hit when you um you're in a parking lot and somebody's like attack you yes they do that all day long and when I complain they say sorry call the cops and then I call the cops and you know what the cops tell me well what do we what do you want us to do about it is that fair they're saying that they're running this major corporation but they can't handle their own employees you heard them say it by themselves well we can advise our employees not to park there we can advise this but they don't enforce anything thing does that make any sense does that make any sense to you guys CU I know if I'm getting a paycheck and somebody tells me to do something and I don't do it I'm going to get a pink slip true yes another thing is they're saying that they're not going to come out on Old Amboy Road they test drive cars down Old Amboy Road all day long and oh and by the way when the Big Wigs go home the guys that work in the garage they RAC their cars down Old dboy Road Race them they had mini bikes parked down the side and they were racing mini bikes back and forth like no one even lived there because no one enforces anything from there at all when you guys gave them the prvious coverage to park the cars the the thing was they couldn't have lighting back there because it would shine into the house now they want to light it up like a Christmas treay they never said one word they said oh they're going to plant some bushes for us yeah when they die you know what they do they're dead they don't replant them what about a fence what about a fence so Bush so I'm going to sit there and look at these cars you know when they sat there by themselves and they didn't move wasn't so bad right they're sitting there they don't move there's some bushes I can't see them but now they're going to put a roadway behind my house correct they still haven't told us where they're going to put the garbage dumpster which could be right behind my house for all I know and then I'm going to get rats I know they're going to put parts in it but people are going to be in there eating and drinking Aren't They isn't there a lounge there's going to be recycling they didn't address that they just said yes we will well where where are they doing it at everything is like give me an exception for this give me an exception for that and nobody and you know it was the funniest part is if could you please put that that picture back up there please excuse me me can I take this with me so when they put this picture up isn't this nice they put this picture up they said nothing about these three houses did they they even kind of like blurred it out so you couldn't see that there was houses there from you know look can you tell there's houses there or does that like a dirt lot to you no I was just curious I was just asking a question it looks like a dirt lot to me they have no the everything that we do or they do they don't care care about the neighbors and I think they kind of proved that to you guys when they said well you guys should enforce it should you and please can someone please tell me where the employee parking lot is could any any of you guys you guys are experts now you own the place please please this is your this is your hold hold on hold on Mr chair I'll direct my presentation yeah please tell me where the designated employee parking lot is it's on the street Mr clauser said that when we open the public portion he was going to listen to the complaints and I'm assuming you are the nebor one of the neighbors that live right there I am okay so my complaint is and if they're going most of your question most of your comments I appreciate and they're rhetorical and I don't know exactly how to respond to them other than the street enforcement would have to be taken over by the municipality this board doesn't have that power so Council has that power and I'm not trying to push this off but I want to tell how Works they can't determine who parks and who doesn't Park he can force his employees to park in a lot but do they have by right of his his being him or the managers being in charge they can dictate that that doesn't mean their employees are going to listen to it I travel that that road it's horrible it's horrible uh I go I try to straddle the middle because I never know who's coming out from the right or the left it really should be shut off to public for public access it really should but it isn't and only the council can change that and I would I would I strongly agree with you I don't think there should be any parking on that street whatsoever it's horrible and I agree with you now as far as the board knows that those three houses are there yes uh uh can they put a fence up there they didn't apply for that it might be something we might want to enforce I don't know if it's possible either by ordinance to do that that would be something I'd have to refer to the professionals uh for advice on that uh the key fob thing it's annoying as hell I live across the street from a small U um um car lot that's the way they find cars morning noon and night and it really is lazy but we are in an age that that you could send a a test to the moon but they can't number a spot put it on the the the paperwork in the computer and say this car is parked in spot number four so walk to spot number four and and get the car I agree with you but human nature doesn't dictate that we take the LA laziest and least uh confrontation but but but wait the I'm not saying it's right but the but the management hasn't even tried to UNL the lazy we haven't heard from Mr clauser when he comes back as to these comments and I'm sure there's going to be others oh there's going to be go ahead you can talk now we thank you for your comments and we take note of each and everything you said thank you yes ma'am I have question anyone else yeah you can come up I have questions come up first come up first the experts okay that's fine that's fine they'll go through Mr clauser he'll direct that as as necessary but uh you feel free free to ask anything you want the board attorney will swear you in ma'am yep do you solemnly swear any testimony you provide before the board will be the truth and the whole truth yes can you state your name for the record please Kathy Miller I live at 57 Old damb booy Road I've lived there for 45 years so I'm familiar with all the changes can I sit now you like to sit down and do this my questions take a seat I have a lot so just make sure that the green light is on on that yeah micro on either microphone that you're going to use and you have to it's a directional mic you have pictures I sent pictures let's just take one thing at a time address the board and we'll help you out well I have questions well we'll we'll we'll direct them the right I have to go through Mr clauser for that okay okay okay the other thing I do want to say like Michelle straight you have to talk directly into the microphone thank you I'm insulted that they never even addressed Us in all their statements it says Community impact they don't even mention residents that's an insult to me right off the bad I just want to say that okay so looking at the parking lot the new one on lot four are there going to be any flatbeds there and [Music] Wreckers maybe I should go back and say the service building will there be a commercial Bay in the proposed new building will there be a commercial Bay will there be when you say commercial Bay ma'am what what are you referring to commercial vehicles flat beds Wreckers will they be fixing yes and I would assume they'll probably fix anything they have they can fix I did see a sign where it said commercial so I want to know where they're going to be staged or the commercial vehicles that they may be fixing in that service building going to be in lot four because they also have commercial on the other side of the street that's one was one of the variants that they got a few years back to do commercial vehicles so now we have flatbeds Wreckers car carriers up and down the street all day long so I'm just wondering if the car carriers and recers and if they're going to be coming up that driveway to the service building would that be car the car carriers delivering and picking up well they if you have a record it's going to have have a broken down vehicle on it right M will they be going into the service area I'm asking them well the statement was that that only his employees would be going in okay so if there is a recer a cars broken down cars on the recers where are they going I hope Mr CLA is writing that down and he'll we'll have to we'll have to address that that I don't know I don't I don't know if considers the record driver his employee and I want to know where the um the cars are going to be the cars for service where they're going to be test roaded T Test driven on the road where okay driveway also wondered I know they said that the um driveway alongside my house that it's going to be used for um fire trucks and garbage trucks I read that in there so they're saying that it's going to be an emergency the new the new outlet that they want to put in in in in Andress across from the Wawa okay why would garbage trucks be going down there where did you hear that I I don't know I read it in that 300 Page proposal that they submitted okay I don't have access to that I don't I don't is that all those PDFs you read them if I if you want Mr chairman I can maybe read about pages I think the we and most most development applications we request that they provide a template showing that a trash truck can maneuver through the site and a fire truck can maneuver through the site for accessibility and that may be what uh um I'm sorry I forgot your name ma'am uh that may be what uh what Miss Miller may be asking about um as far as the the access goes what and we we were of the same concern that you were that that was going to be a main access into the site the applicant is clarified looks like one it looks like it's going to be built to eventually be used for a whole lot more and no matter what they say believe me they do what they want so anyway that's we did clarify just on the record that that access is not going to be used for for accessing a lot it's it's going to be redesigned to only be for emergency access only in the G then it would be chained off May a spring gate chained or gated uh to so the employees if they want to go to lunch for to the Wawa they're not going to cut through there so it will be blocked off okay because we know sometimes they lock things like they driveways like they say they have driveways but there's cars in front of them all the time so a lot of those driveways aren't there so if you could bring up the pictures I sent because that's important I know we're going to run out of time so what yeah I what are you talking about pictures you sent pictures I sent pictures well the attorney's going to have to figure out whether we can see those it sounds like you're you want to present some evidence or something along those lines or something well I have a question as to where they'll be dropped the car carriers will be dropping off their cars because presently all day long there I shouldn't say all day long every day there's car carriers dropping off on the street on Old Dam voy road so I know in 1998 because I have paperwork to prove it that they were told that the cars had to be in the new lot that's on 18 car carriers do go in there but a lot of your smaller car carriers that might only have 10 cars on it your Wreckers they drop off on the street they do it every day and I have an email from Jason Savino because I complained and and he he responded we deal with so many carriers the procedures are in place with them they all have different drop off procedures of their own they drop off constantly throughout the day that's true but he's basically saying they have their own procedures they don't listen to what Ford tells them sometimes they alert us uh via email before sometimes after it's not always a checked in process with our staff our check guy is constantly running around doing a million things off premises so sometime and sometimes doing other tasks the carriers are not his only job so in other words they can't control the carriers so if they can't control them who can I've called the police and the police are you know what one time they went out there I don't know if they issued a ticket I called the second time they told me they're busy I called them another time they were like okay we'll send somebody out but you could tell they don't want to hear from me and I don't want to be the bad guy I shouldn't be the cop in the town they unload on Route 8 on Route uh old Dy road yeah no out on the highway as well they're not supposed to be out there and see my opinion is that there should be if there they should be given violations for one and the only way to stop and they don't care about a $100 ticket a $200 $1,000 ticket but if you make them go to court and they're inconvenience with their time they might reconsider because you know what they hand the ticket over to their boss or company or whatever and it's no big deal to them but if they're coming from Pennsylvania coming Upstate New York and you make them come back to Oldbridge at night to go to the court they might feel differently I want to know how you could stop them the police don't want to hear from me and I don't think it should be my job but somehow it should be their job when the rosin were there they worked with us they owned Oasis Ford they put a sign up said no trucks P their parking area there was no trucks they told their carriers to go over to the new lot they had more control I know now the business is so much bigger but it's out of control and it's dangerous they have those car carriers there they have tractor trailer Dewey pile delivers there you can't see past those I have pictures I have videos that I don't know can I I have a few here I don't if you're interested I think you would be interested in in filing an objector case is what you would like I don't correct that's kind like where we're headed with this so this is this is this is Public public comment and question portion so you're basically limited to posing questions for their professionals to respond to and placing any concerns onto the record as far as presenting evidence if you wanted to do something like that it would be after they concluded their primary presentation you could present an objector case at that point if you wanted to but that would be actually that would actually take place at the conclusion of the the primary case so there's we have got we had about two witnesses I think tonight or three Witnesses I guess it sounds like we have like three more to go that's probably going to happen at the next meeting yeah and then once that concludes if you wanted to put forth an objection case that's something that you could do at that point but okay so whoever can answer how many bays do you have in the Mr just on that that issue um you know I know m m got to be on the mic Peter uh Mr clauser there's an eviden eviden issue that's difficult for you know someone that just doesn't do this all the time to to do that Miss Miller is trying to I think get an evidence that there are car carriers that deliver on Route n you know it I know it the applicant would stipulate that that occurs we don't we don't enfor and we don't endorse it we we give direction to the carriers not to do that but for purposes of getting it on the record the police know it you know it we know it so if that you I I have no issue with that being stipulated on the record that it occurs will have a response but um it's not something that that's not where we tell them to drop off the vehicles but I'll get that on the record from Mr Savino but just for purposes of maybe not making this too difficult on on Miss Miller I I stipulate that that's a that's a fact yeah thank you you understand what he's saying yes okay okay okay oh oh oh you can't speak from the audience you have you have to be in front of the microphone go ahead okay so the other thing and I know they addressed it I know the property that lot four where they're putting a 382 parking spaces a lot of fill went in there my neighbor was feeling Way Beyond what was allowed I was happen to be home over a 5year period he was bringing in loads constantly I know that they were tested uh the test pits that they went down they found debris but has it ever been tested for contam contamination yes but you don't have a result pass all tests we subm because what I read in their report is that they did not test for contamination that's that's what's might I suggest this rather than have a back and forth present your present what you want on the record will hold him to the feet to the fire next time to answer those questions I don't know that he has the results but he might be able to produce I don't know if they did it afterwards but I do know presentation it said that it was not tested for contamination I believe Mr clauser wrote it down and then I had pictures that showed the the where are water drains in into their area their um service the new service building right now there's a parking area and it's elevated 3 feet above the ground level below it which is behind our property they want to put the roadway in there that's curved they did mention some um inlets to go in there but there was always natural runoff the little dry streams that went down to the the big stream uh I'm wondering if that roadway is not going to block off the natural runoff we got a lot of rain this past week with more coming and there's water laying there right now you're 57 right yeah would you be I'm close the bottom to the top or in the middle to the top to the top going towards Wawa yeah right across from Wawa okay and believe me I have to deal with a lot between their vehicles in Wawa I mean it's crazy there this is the time to the microphone this is the time to express your feelings present him with questions that you have concerns and now he'll come back and he'll provide answers I have three pages of questions I don't know if you want me to and I'm doing it out of water some of you you answered and then I have a summary statement that I just wanted to why don't you highlight the points highlight the points the questions you have on the next two pages okay and then do your summary statement and I'm keeping notes so is the board attorney okay they couldn't answer how many trips back and forth but I think I read somewhere that they have 30 service bays in the existing building and then they wanted to add 20 more 21 more Bays to the new building that's 50 if it's true that's 50 Bays of service so one of my questions which they can't answer is exactly how many trips back and forth between the two servic are cars going to be going that they're uh that's going to be valeted back and forth and I think that's dangerous especially with the existing conditions today between the car carriers the delivery um Parts delivery there's tractor trailers um so you you can't see those driveways I almost hit somebody uh the first time I went over and complained to the dealership our car was coming out of the driveway they had a delivery truck and a tractor trailer there I did not see him come out of the driveway he did not see me coming I stopped this close from hitting his car well it was a truck actually a p you know one of the smaller trucks and it's like there are people coming out there all the time and if they're going to have the deliveries in along the street um they're not going to be able to see and you're not going to be able to stop their parts delivery I don't know what Dewey pile delivers uh there's all sorts of things when you have a dealership that there's all kinds of deliveries so they can't drive into any of their driveways to deliver whatever it is they're delivering they Park on Old Amboy Road on this side and all your employee parking is on this side um two cars cannot go side by side there's a queue there you have to go around I have tons of pictures that could show what we all deal with every day and it's dangerous and I think them go I can't believe that they would to me it's ludicrous that they could would consider that it's those back and forth is safe in any way it it's impossible if they have that amount of bays and that much service that requires 382 parking space that's a lot of business and to me that's a lot of back and forth and I can't see how it could happen safely on any given day I think what he said was 100 per day they take in 100 per day for service that's my recollection that's dangerous that is absolutely dangerous and lud I don't know about them crossing the road they do 100 service calls a day is is the way I interpret okay but we don't know how many trips back and forth because some of them are waiting for parts I get that I don't care if it's 50 it could be 25 back and forth it's dangerous and I know cuz I drive it every day and I've lived there for 45 years I know what's going on and I know that they promise to do one thing and they do whatever they want their employees when they're coming to work in the morning they're speeding they're not doing 25 I don't expect them to do 25 they're not doing 35 they're doing 40 45 they all come down in a row one after the other and they just park one after the other in that there's 50 cars that fit there and then the ones that Park diagonally you could add another six more that are blocking their driveways and that's a daily uh a thing and then when they're leaving when they go to Wawa for lunch there's a couple of them there they have the Chargers in the Mustangs and they race back to work they rev their engines you know all the flatbeds they go the flatbeds and the Wreckers go to the Wawa to gas up I guess their new cars they go there to to gas and then when they're coming back they all shift right in front of my house and and when they uh tractor trailers are coming or the big vehicles they have to break right in front of my house it's very noisy they're Lighting in the main building it was supposed to be shut off at 11:00 that was a agement that was made years ago that those lights are not shut off all night long they're not dimmed and I believe it they're supposed to be turned down at 11:00 the only thing they were allowed to do is to have security lights well I guess they they think that their entire parking lot needs security lights and what they told me the one time when I asked them about shutting off the lights they said the police told them to leave it on on because they have too many thefts and they say we do whatever the town tells us so I think they're taking the direction from the police now or do they take their direction from whatever you uh the zoning board what you decide your conditions right and you give conditions and they totally ignore them they do whatever they want we haven't given them anything yet I'm not giving them anything I said we haven't given them anything yet no I'm talking about past conditions and I have a l now you have some more bullet points you want to put on the record more more questions okay let me see if I could find and then you're going to read a summary right a statement you wanted to make yeah okay well if we're going to be allowed the next time I could ask questions the next time there will be a public portion absolutely okay I just didn't want to lose that because I know it's getting late what well I want you to be comfortable too how how long's the statement well you know what now because I I didn't do them in in row I'd like to reorganize and the next time I'll it because uh some of it was covered okay anytime there's testimony and there's going to be what do we have three more witnesses I believe there's a public portion just like there is tonight okay this is just a summary of of my feelings and and it's easier for me to read and it's a page long okay I lived on Old Amboy for just over 45 years I am retired and enjoy being an out in my yard as much as I can when I moved here in 1978 there were nine residential homes in the Elks Club being situated in the middle of old Ambury road we were mostly surrounded by Woods at that time the zoning was og1 there were no fences we visited one another in our backyards two cars could not fit side side by side coming down the road where the dealership is located uh today when the Rosen wanted to expand Oasis Ford they had the road widen we enjoyed the addition of city water sewage and a paved Road it was a joy to come home from from work to peace and quiet with the nature around us at first the changes that came were welcomed improvements to our quality of life now with what some would consider prog for the town our surroundings are deteriorating the zimmermans who lived on the corner of Spring Valley and Old Amboy felt forced out of their home by the influx of car carriers always coming and going and staging in front of their house although Provisions were made for the car carriers to unload in the new lot on Spring Valley more and more the C the carriers were unloading on the street as they still do today even though there's a town or ordinance States it's forbidden along with the dealership Changing Hands in the additions to the showrooms in the service space the congestion on the lower end of old damb boy is at times dangerous to come through workers walk through the park cars delivery trucks and smaller car carriers block the view of the driveways and then I wrote about almost hitting the car so I'll bypass that or quiet little street is now speeding cars trucks of all sizes including tractor trailers clamoring car carriers loud flatbeds Wreckers and cars with very loud mufflers with the Wawa driveway very close I have the extra noise of tractor trailers breaking right in front of my house to enter the Wawa and the noise of large trucks and flatbeds shiting gears as they leave the WWA as well at times the large Vehicles just Park on Old dambo in the no parking Zone that's the other thing these and it's a lot of the vehicles leaving the dealership those delivery um Vehicles they stop where it's no parking and then they go in and get coffee they park right across from me um and again this has not the Wawa refrigerator trucks are staged right across for me the compressors are very loud the banging of the garbage containers when they are being picked up and and dropped sound like cherry bombs going off there's always garbage in the streets and in our yards my bedroom is lit up all night by the Lots from the Wawa and the dealership parking lot the dealer was supposed to cut the lights I believe it it was 11:00 now with the pro propo with this proposal all the frustration and aggravation will be brought to our backyards and my side yard as well is it the dealership's intention to force us out of our homes for their own gain and our loss and then I asked about with the 50 service Bays uh requiring thir 382 parking spaces to store the cars waiting for service it's my opinion that it's ludicrous to think that the dealership can have cross traffic between the service building and the main building and not interfere with public traffic Old Amboy is a public road and not the dealership's right of way it's my hope that zoning will carefully consider Public Safety the residents including the residents at the apartments well-being our quality of life and what will happen to our property values I hate to imagine what a nightmare old Amoy could become should this proposal go through thank you we thank you for your comments tonight they've all been noted I certainly invite you back to the next uh yeah I'll reorganize my questions I'm sure I have a few that's that's fine we're going to give you a date tonight when it's going to happen because there's probably not there's not a re notice so I'm going to give you a date tonight when we're going to have this on the schedule very good yeah I have questions about the inlets and some technical things that if you're looking to create an objector case I'd have I think you should look into that and do that and about the pictures I would well I would try and get some legal advice even if you could probably find someone that you might not have to pay for legal advice but uh if you want to start an objector case they would be the ones to tell you well I well I guess I guess you all believe me the congestion down there with the them unloading their carriers I have I'm fairly certain that everybody on this board is aware of that street and probably seeing seen it because I could show you picture after picture after and it's dangerous because the guys taking the cars off they have to get out of their vehicle they get in their street they got to go and unstrap things they have to pull down the things it it's it's a very dangerous situation and I don't think that the dealership cares about the public or their employees we thank you very much for your comments they totally that their whole whole thing barely mentions that residents are there and the impact on it's all the other impact but not the residents all right M Miller thank you thank you very much uh only because you were up once I want to see the is anyone else here in the room want to be heard I just say okay you didn't get a chance so come on I'm going to take you once again a bird a board attorney will swear you in sir all right can you raise your right hand please you solemnly swear any test testimony you provide before the board will be the truth and the whole truth yes your name sir for the record Robert Ferrero lift the microphone you're not going to be e Frank erson Frank e r r a r o and your address please 41 40 uh 49 old amb boy Road thank you I'm the the house on the the southern part first one I didn't catch your first name sir Bob Ferrero Robert ferero Robert thank you and I just want to back up what Kathy and and Michelle said I witnessed it all I've been an owner of house since 1988 and uh what they're saying is true that's all I have to say I've witnessed it thank you for your comments sir we invite you back to the next meeting I just m k I just have one question for you guys okay when I said something about the township putting up no parking signs hold on one second I want to do that to you it's okay I'm used to it I've been this size go ahead um when you when I asked you about the no parking sign you said it wasn't within your the board doesn't this board doesn't have the power to do that only the council can enact how do I get something in front of the council and if it is in front of the council would that hold this up or one is independent of the other that has not they ruling on an ordinance for parking has nothing to do with this board but would it be would the board consider it that they're I'm trying to get them to put an ordinance for no parking and there's no parking spaces for employees and if they take them off the road now what are you going to do how are they going to resolve that issue I would I would honestly say no we wouldn't hold up a decision based solely upon that I don't think we legally could um and I'm taking advice from attorney so um could you guide me in the right direction where I could fill that application out and have that heard and get a lawyer for it please um well you could you can certainly write uh or talk to your local council person what whatever Ward you're in okay and and or could you guide me with and or you could talk to any of the council people at large okay uh or I would direct my uh complaint to the mayor's office as well okay and that would have to be initiated by the council to create an ordinance if they want to change restrictions on that roadway because that's a Municipal Road okay so I would approach my local councilman first or any Council talk call the mayor's office certainly and that would be where I police are probably not going to the the problem is the police are going to say there is no ordinance for us to enforce correct so that's if it's parking that that is my starting point right to to alleviate correct that particular problem which is probably going to create another problem because now they're going to have to park somewhere else and whatever who knows maybe maybe the owner who's sitting there will make it uh the responsibility of his deliveries to deliver onto Old amby Road on their big parking lot on route nine uh rather than accept deliveries anywhere else but I can't make that decision I I was talking about I was more or less talking about the the parking the parking well I'm just saying we could try couple things maybe maybe he'll only accept delivery somewhere else and maybe that the parking will improve and perhaps the council would prohibit parking on the street I don't know that I'm just merely suggesting to you okay so thank you you're quite well you guys all right uh I'm going to close the public portion at this time Mr Mr clauser yes we're going to get a new new date yeah when when are we going to June June 6th June 6th yes what happened to March 21st I'm sorry okay when we I turn into a pumpkin under the contract I know that's not your problem but in May so when we had talked about having this meeting tonight we carried it from the last hearing at the request of your staff U which was a good thing so that we could go and meet with them so I'm not complaining about that but with the idea that I thought that the 1 was also earmarked um but if you're telling me June 6th I start to my contract I have to close by May on lot four which again is not your problem but I'm just putting that out there uh as an issue uh I really don't know how to resolve as I sit here right now um but June 6th is the next available day that's it I don't set the calendar you know that so okay is there an opportunity to get it any earlier or no okay okay I'll have to deal with it somehow um okay yeah uh for those here in the audience of the from the public that testified please note June 6th will be the next meeting for this particular application okay there's not you're not going to receive further notice so please mark it down in your calendars please check the township website if you ever have doubt go to Oldbridge Z Oldbridge Township zoning board when you look that up you'll see the zoning board members you'll see agendas you'll see dates you can punch on any uh on any one of those it'll fill you in on what's going on that evening okay so you can double check but for now this this matter uh 50- 2023 Z will be continued June 6 no further notice thank you very much thank you and your Professionals for being here tonight uh I don't have any other housekeeping you have anything from legal no do we have to do general public or uh well we have no general public because there there's no one here so I'm not going to open a public portion uh anything from the township Mr SW that you want to mention to the board Moren our next meeting is March 21st okay we hope everybody can be there thank you for watching at home uh I'm GNA ask for someone to move for an adjournment all in favor for adjournment say I I any nose we stand a journ