keep keep in mind Financial secretary back I got I got Cloud here just keep in mind that the F when you have an accessory building that reaches a certain size it gets calculated whether it's attached or not based on the but we're good here yep we're good here as far as I I I have no I would have raised that alarm way earlier because then it's a different animal well that's why we have Nick to check you all right so the rain garden and the were good on the shed and the drainage we're going good yeah excellent testimony I appreciate it very much um I do have a slightly different take on the drainage I don't necessarily see it as an improvement um I feel and I know Tom wants to get the water away from the house and he doesn't want the water to flood anybody's property and I I don't know if water that was in the low-lying area of the woods was really hurting anybody was it was it flooding the basement was it I think that um maybe the uh applicant could talk to that because I haven't talked to the neighbor specifically about it but U my understanding and in all the conversations I had over the last quite a while is that in conversations between um my my client the applicant and the adjoining neighbor uh the drainage was the major issue you know and uh drainage created by the shed by by by the shed I think that that's uh when it was put up that was the the issue that came up you know and I think it's you know it's I think it was partly created by the shed exagger you know exasperated by the shed and an existing condition and I think that the the testimony that's been given here tonight is that you know the existing shed that was there before or this one uh didn't have any it's it's now going to have some but in in addition to that uh with the the area drained in the in the ground itself that close to the property line it's going to Abate some of those property problems and my understanding that the the uh neighbor you know uh was very happy with that but I I didn't have those conversations myself so I should I should just indicate that um there is no question from the beginning of this application one neighbor we knew of who was an objector was concerned not at all about the size of it except that it was in violation and there we should have U undertaken to obtain the appropriate peral variant at the time but the entire thrust of his concern was with standing water in fact so he was the drainage was the issue and that's the very reason where we've been working with him since September him and his attorney and I have a confirmation from the attorney in writing that they basically were in agreement with this and this is two months ago with our last resolution so as of today my understanding last couple days there have been uh inquiries of him that uh maybe confirm it I think Mr scrable suggest yeah B should we be worried about characterizing the conversations with the neighbor I think it's here say because I've had some too that may not align perfectly with what you've had if the neighbors here Neighbors I don't want to impose upon the in any way except that I I think he's not here he's not presenting so if you don't know whether if I could just expand for a minute on what my question was and comment because least we might be getting a little off track here so I I tend to agree with Tom in that ultimately getting the drainage into the 42inch pipe is a good idea because ultimately you don't want to cause any hardship to either the resident or the neighbor as created by the 500 some odd square foot shed however I feel as though in New Jersey we've been kicking the can down the road with storm water and the reason Nick couldn't get home tonight was because the streams are full of water so by piping water directly into the 42-in pipe which then exits and goes aead wall and ultimately goes into the stream that's in Bonnabel Park which is the stream that he couldn't get around where it kicking the can down the road a bit so while I appreciate the immediate remedy of putting a pip in a giant pipe water we're not we're not taking ownership over that water and slowing it down on our own property whereas a seepage tank underground would or perhaps a rain Garden in the event that you can't put a seepage tank underground because the so conditions don't permit it so a compromise in my mind might be to say hey the water which is created by the shed which it's not a huge shed it's 500 square ft okay accessory structure create a small rain Garden to Corral that water and maybe some of the water that probably runs from the patios Over The Lawns into it put an Atrium grate in that own the water plant beautiful hibiscus in that rain garden and other native plants that help with pollinators and then the water fills it up and if it fills it up too much it goes in the atrium grate goes into the 42in pipe you're not kicking a can down the road Nick can get to the meetings on time and we're all saved so I just don't I don't buy the it's a benefit you've gotten the water away we've satisfied a neighbor who might have said hey cold foul because you have a big structure on your property it's not that big but I think there's a slightly better compromised solution bill can I just comment on that and I I respect your opinion you know that um my concern with something like that on this lot where you essentially got zero permeability MH rain Garden relies on permeability as well you've got got certain storage volumes zero permeability what were the soil tests how much sand was in the soil it was k0 K Zer or K1 virtually nothing K1 so you've got a if you're G to have a rain Gard that's going to fill up 6 Ines a foot um that relies on the soil to take it under New Jersey standards within 72 hours in this case I don't think even 72 hours would work so now this board would be creating a standing body of water with the associated liability that comes with that I don't think that's something the board should do could you create the POR space in the S and the gravel at the base of the rain Garden to accommodate enough runoff from the 500 square foot well the rain Garden is designed for pick a storm a 2-year storm a 5year storm so you design your storage your your soil and your gravel storage for that storm what happens when you get the 50 or the 100e storm The Atrium great and Zips away but it also fills up the open the the pond space it fills up the pond as well and then if it's not a K1 then it can get in but it what it there's got to be some sand in the soil there all I'm saying is during there's going to be a storm event that's going to fill up the depression that you created and you're going to have standing water for days and that's something that now this board required and God forbid somebody got hurt in it God forbid you know what I'm saying I know it's on private property but I don't like rain Gardens I don't like above ground detention basins I think they liabilities now if you put it that way I could agree with you because the water has to perk in I understand that but and um I'm actually planning on recusing myself from the decision or abstaining anyway because I do too much work with Mr lenal um but I just think that there's a interim solution that could be a little bit better than just kicking the can down the road which unfortunately would require a more thought Nick can always drive around Nick can drive continue to drive around and not have a problem and just this is it's not a great argument but it is something to consider when you've got such a small drainage area that we're talking about here we're talking about a 500t roof the water's going to hit that roof get in that pipe and it's going to be in the hackin sack River in a matter of minutes the peak during these huge storms for the hackin saac river is probably at least an hour if not a couple hours after the intense rainfall mhm so by beating it to the punch there's a benefit to that I've seen engineers make that argument all the time it's hard to quantify but if you just think about it logically there is some benefit there this water is into the river and gone before the flood happens if that makes sense does anything else bill I do actually it's okay I'll pass it the time all right U I have no questions no question I do have one question Mr Michaels you said you took these pictures there appears to be a small structure I'm trying to figure out what it is yeah it's kind of big for a fireplace it almost looks like a little shed thing what is what is it see fur picture it almost looks like where you can put your lawn right here actually this is this is it's right there you want take a look yeah is that's my fireplace this is outdoor fireplace here's the heart FOC on getting you here the same thing that's the same pict that's the [Music] okay that's all I have um did you get an answer to that I think so yeah okay all right want to share that with us I have no comments no com all righty um I I um just have one comment and and that is I I commented before on my other issue and that is it's a happy coincidence the water issue came up right this is you know I know we're saying that the that we're looking at this as a benefit but the reality is the shed was built without any intention of originally resolving the water issues this is a happy benefit that came up because the neighbor complained that there was a flooding issue and whether or not the flooding is a result of the shed and I and I would argue not a civil engineer um but I would argue that there's just as much reason for flooding simply because it's a valley the way the the the grades are um we would have never seen this application it would never come to us and this would never would have never been resolved so it's just something that is after the fact we're saying this after the fact that it's a a benefit to the community we would have never seen it Mr D any other uh Witnesses no no other Witnesses Mr chairman Mr the board any questions or anybody that we have no but I think we should open the meeting to the public motion questions first for the Planner yeah then public comments yeah okay so let's open the meeting for questions to the planner regarding his testimony May motion all in favor all right any questions specifically to Mr Michaels regarding his testimony we will have an opportunity then to make comments right after that seeing none motion motion second all in favor I all right any closing remarks no except that uh we appreciate the board's patience here we've taken a couple months to present this to put it through but with your assistance and Mr scri do have a better solution I think um and I don't want to supplement anything we've said but I think uh in the package there's pictures of this shed being taken down the old one showing the standing water there behind it I only mention it now because if we're talking about any standing water condition there there's been standing water there we're trying to address it for the neighbor and for ourselves and for the community so I I think um overall uh the the whole concept of whether we got uh increased size of the building it's relatively minor this arose in a way that we wished it hadn't we would have if we realized the the con of it there's no question my client uh would have been before the this board or the building inspector before him all right so having said that I think I'll just leave up to the board P decision with the conditions that appropriate thank you Mr D we're going to open the meeting to the public for comments um motion motion second all in favor anybody from the public have any comments that they' like to make we need you to come up here and you have to be sworn we'll swear at you m raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimonial G this proing shall be TR I'll be got I do you give us your full name and spell your last name and your address William Joel Hazel uh h a z l and then 1059 Washington Avenue North great yeah no I there was a question in regards to the capacity of the pipe and and I didn't know this so I had to look it up uh but it said 623 gallons per square foot for one inch of water so or one inch of of rainfall so at 550 ft near 342 gallons per 1 in of rainfall per day so just doing some quick uh study I couldn't find a a 42in pipe but a 6in pipe is 175 gallons per minute so the 550 square foot the drainage as far as the capacity of the of the pipe really is going to be less than 1% I would imagine so interesting well thank you thank you appreciate that make him a board member anybody else have any questions or comments seeing none motion to close motion to close second all in favor all righty we're ready to make a motion anybody have any other comments before we make a motion all right would somebody like to make a motion I'm not going to make a motion I would make a motion that we approve the application based on Mr scra's recommendations and Mr Zoo's recommendations and condition detailed on the rec and that about the six months I've got that and I goty for the audience recommendations I think he made any recommendations is there a second second who second did it Dan roll call yeah and there should be nine members able to vote you had to be here at the November meeting at T so I have um maio Mr leie um [Music] well as much as I'm not happy with the application I'm going to vote in favor of it but I made my point we can't continue to do things like this yes I S you said it was in Mr Mr for the record I was here in November but I don't know go ahead yes Mr yes and it's missing yes with um are we GNA have a condition about the pipe ability and not fall apart we have the requirement of main requirement and the resolution will be filed in the Bergen County Clerk's Office any successors to the applicant in terms ownership will be obligated to do that as well if that's the case I V size and the number ofs yes size this number car not good though uh congratulations congratulations congratulations app thank you very much okay we take a five minute break is there the second applicant here you are the second applicant okay why don't we take a five minute break before they join into the asking your remember June 7 I got tell it opens up back here it's a creek I never even knew about we actually had to do a repair to a back here getting like s eight in in two days slow melting I that we'll have to carry it wolb yeah this is all we got I think we got to get that otherwi yeah the I think Green Street train from Greenway and Tak it out Greenway doing think water that's right down the street going in I I got my own opinion about front yard at the bottom of green way I got to take I look at it like stuff and I just got this feeling this I would imagine circular you can do it but you still have put certain amount of C am in this case it didn't make any sense wasn't dry no right you wouldn't want to you that's what everybody call half if it's your face well iil good Lu problem I wasn't sure they were there either this way to Hidden core I know hidden core goes all out this way one right I'm pretty sure uh this is on a need to know basis that's why they didn't even bother telling him this defense secretar what is he going to do anyway he doesn't need to know that's what some people don't have that oh okay good luck good luck some El good Lu graci's working on a be I'm sorry whoever doesn't we don't care who doesn't want okay good very take care you no I would have voted no still going out to the island guys we're going out to the island Fire Island you have a party in that thing runs though right in the probably restaur you go out there on a weekend you wi be around I didn't know hey where's what the hell man there you go your first first H many a chuck me yeah me too I'm going try one more time yeah let's get started don't see Diane though you want toite me to wait hold on you have to wait one second wait for the completen thisw yeah yeah I just want to see it comes by in now no I know it doesn't give you the requirements all right I think everybody's either back or getting back so um the next application is the I'm just trying to pull up my agenda here it's the Heckman yes application so I just want to confirm right now John yes let's talk about completeness of the application which is something we should probably do at the beginning of every let's wear in both M scrael and M sure why don't we do that gentleman you swear affirm the testimony given per I do do thank you all righty John complete this review yeah uh yes Mr chairman back in August uh I prepared a report dated August 24th 2023 as I typically do with these applications and I perform a checklist review against the completeness requirements of the burrow let's mark that as B1 since we're referring to it sure there were I I would think three five eight items that were not provided um and I more than happy to go through those with the board completeness is an important uh function of the board because of the time of application rule once you deem an application complete then the ordinances and the zoning that's in place at that time clock starts clock starts if it's incomplete clock doesn't start and then there could be changes to the ordinance later you know until it's deemed complete so that's the significance of the application completeness process um there are a number of items names and addresses of facts Witnesses I mean that's something that that we can get testimony on it's not an issue uh names and um the presence or absence of wetlands uh we're going to need testimony on that okay uh there's no uh place for signatures for the board chairman and Secret AR is required the board uh the checklist requires Property Owners within 200 ft to be put on the plan so that you can identify uh potential neighbors and people who are testifying and any potential conflicts any board member may have if they're within 200 feet so that is a requirement of the checklist uh it's important on these kinds of applications that the location of structures of joining and surrounding Lots be provided that was not provided it's a requirement of the checklist um and an area map is always is helpful in something that is required that is not provided uh and I would also recommend that a zoning table be provided so that we can identify compliance all throughout the application particularly with respect to f i I had that issue too because garage is the garage I think is proposed 772 square feet correct so means the applicant amount 400 would be included in F correct so we we would have to have an F calculation and I I can't estimate it based on this so uh those are the items that are eight items that Miss there were eight items I mean some of them I I I'm not that concerned with for example uh the name and addresses of fact Witnesses we routinely wave we'll find that during we'll find that during the hearing that's that's an easy give me um there has to be a qualified expert we could um for wetland identification there should be some expert testimony that we don't have any Wetlands here um that you know that it's nice to have an Loi letter of interpretation and all that but we've accepted testimony zoning table is really critical zoning table signatures citizen writing this has already been submitted it's in his report it's in my report okay and that was and that's been submitted to the applicant my understanding is yes okay um we should have at least the signatures for the board chairman and secretary the list of property owners the zoning table and the joining property locations of structures neighboring the site because the board is always asked about what's the impact on the neor neighbor but we don't know we don't have that detail on the plan okay that's helpful to know so um before we get started um can I ask Diane if all the notices are in order since we started okay thank you and he was no he was that um Mr Z's memo on August 29th thank you all right so so before we get started is there any reason why you might not have responded to the completeness letter and provided all the information that Mr Zabo is recommending it says on the letter that I received from him that I could provide that at this time and so I have he had listed prepared for today because that's what his review said I could provide them this not aware I need Prov yeah but we really can't have our experts do that now just to be clear there were two items that I said could be supplemented at the hearing that would be the list of witnesses because we routinely ask who's going to be testify on your behalf and the presence or absence of wetlands which could be given by testimony through the appropriate professional but the other items are are plan related uh that we typically require on a plan this board is required I don't know if I'm within my bounds or not for this and Bob will kick me under the table but um you seem like nice people and and um I I think it will be in your best interest to hand these out to everybody and then wait a month for the next meeting for us to evaluate them uh because if we don't have that information you know you might just get some negative biased voting will you be having a planner provide testimony pretty good make me excited to hire we don't care who you hire don't care architect my architect didn't feel I needed it um but there's a variance I he did a pretty good job that that J so so um just just something to consider I think that you you know you is in your best interest to consider that and your architect is Mr Anderson y you would be providing his testimony as well if I twist his arm I suppose I'm sorry if I twist his arm he didn't he didn't he's not here he didn't volunteer see he didn't twist his arm he he prepared the plan just pay yeah that was pretty good I have to ADM I just think if you want to have a snowballs chance I think you want to that's the typical process on on on an application that was not extraordinary we can tell you about extraordinary application that was no that's okay we'll guide you through it we'll guide you through it just understand that this is your one shot and if you don't create the proper record right the appeal is going to be almost impossible for you so we're just trying to guide you along so that you can formulate a case In fairness to you and there isn't enough information right that's a fool for attorney and we got potential future planning board member here so this is go with math anyway so uh your your a decision on what you want to do I can hand them up and we'll see you in a month yeah I think so that' be great why don't we do that if we carry on the record would have to be noticed correct corre now we'll continue the hearing to uh February whatever it is Mr Reagan should we formally continue to declare it incomplete so the clock when will you need documentation for February and and we're just going to know for the record that the application is not complete and if any board members have any concerns about that we can have a vote but it's the recommendation of our planer that the application be deemed not compl I concurrent I agree too any any comments or questions no I I think he needs to know when we need the documentation it all right now yeah and what I'll do is I'll review it expeditiously for the February hearing so you have the information for me well in advance and then you could call myself or or the the town if you had questions or issues and we'll get you to the hearing would you be able to uh make comment if something else is missing yes that you could he'll probably be preparing a supplemental advance so that they could provide that in advance and still make the February meeting absolutely right yes that would be good yes okay thank you all right so why don't we do that and with that in mind while we're doing that any idea what this application probably wrap the meeting up open the meeting for public comment for thank you Diane all right um with that Diane a moment I this I need need two more I need two more one member's not here this evening so need one of them [Applause] myin thank you's old house right yeah all righty we are going to open the meeting to the public for any non-agenda items take a motion second all in favor I I anybody in the public have any comments regarding anything not regarding any applicants yes thank you you're welcome anybody [Music] else okay uh motion to close motion to close all in favor I I and we have a motion to close the meeting sir all in favor I great weekend everybody watch out for the rain am I going see you Monday I know uh I I I think okay what all right what would be responsibility to tell people then they want to say oh well you didn't remind me I didn't pay it so what is it I'm sorry email yeah that now I'm gonna I'm gonna take a look at this I'm tell you exactly this know I know what they want do wheel so we want to give you an honest shot