##VIDEO ID:RkcfMQ4IpUQ## all right good evening everyone announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 col 4-6 at SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act Nora if you would Mr burit here M gani here Mr Jos here Mr Petty Here Mr Quinn here Mr ready president Mr willing here chairman camplan here we have our board planner Mr Chadwick our board engineer I'm sorry Mr Wallow Wallow s and our board attorney Mr Johnson here all right this time please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands one nation God indivisible liy and justice for all Mr CH can you raise your right hand please swear or affirm any t that you did tonight should be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth Mr can you raise your right hand Please Mr where any testimony that you give tonight should read theu I do all right at this time I will open the meeting to the public if there's anyone in the audience who has any business to conduct in front of the board that is not on this agenda now is your time to come forward okay no one's come forward we will jump right into application 2429 Frank and Y Chi 32 bordo Drive come forward come on up come on down first raise your right hand raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give should be the truth the whole truth but nothing but the truth can you state your name and and spell your first and last names and give us your address please uh where I'm living now or the property well where you're living now and then you can talk about the property I'm living at 17156 drive you can they can't hear you back there just make sure you speak into the microphone you can pull it up close to you you can hold it if you prefer um you are here because you require several variances um you are looking to construct 945 ft on story addition to the property 187 ft of a roof front porch 18 ft of front stairs 155 Square ft of a front walkway 472 for a deck 8 square ft for rear stairs 751 for new driveway and expanding it 18 squ ft for a generator and 20 for for AC units and and the pads um handful of front yard side yard building coverage impervious coverage variances so with all that said if you would please describe what you are looking to do in Greater detail and why you require these variances um I'm looking to expand the current property from 2,000 ft about ,000 ft can you speak into the microphone you can tilt it up thank you hello there you go so I'm looking to expand it from 2,000 to 3,000 square ft um I will be a grandfather this January so I would like to have a little bit more room for my daughter to uh come and bring her uh bring my granddaughter over to to stay with us sometimes my parents are 80 years old um 80 and 82 and I would like also for them to come and stay with me sometime so I wanted to instead of building a second story expand my existing first story separate the two microphones so that's basically what I was be trying to do just give myself a little bit more room for a family okay you're you're keeping this as a single family home parents aren't moving in no yeah just for them to visit okay what is the purpose of the additions um for room for family to stay when they're visiting I mean is a living room room a bedroom a bathroom uh it's a for a bigger kitchen um there's still we're going to make the bedrooms bigger and the additional spaces for a fourth bedroom so one new bedroom you have four we're taking away one bedroom it's a four-bedroom house right now so we're taking away one bedroom on one side to make the other bedrooms a little bit bigger okay and adding a keeping at Fourth bedroom but in the separate part of the house [Music] the new deck do you know how that's going to be constructed the question is will it have gaps between the deck the four pieces are will be done and groov in a hard surface um it's I'm not I'm a Layman when it comes to construction what we're concerned about is runoff so if the water can get through the deck that's not such a big issue it's going to run off like roof water than it is um it's a track St that's what we're putting back there okay so it's not yeah any other questions from the board so I guess you're you're saying you have a one story addition you don't want to go up two storage of the house you want to expand the footprint of the house right correct that's why you have a need for uh a variance for impervious coverage at building coverage okay correct the house is currently like an L-shaped house so I'm basically scoring it off if you went up you wouldn't have any of these variances required uh that's correct but since my parents will be there and um my granddaughter is going to be staying with us I'd rather keep it as a ranch to avoid any accidents you know I don't want my granddaughter as a baby running up and down stairs I don't want my parents going up and down stairs and when they're 80 years old they're going to live there with you permanently or just temporarily occasionally I'm sorry are they living with you permanently your granddaughter and your parents no it will only be myself and my wife and I want to expand the room for a family to come and stay with us during holidays and birthdays and things like that well the way you describe it you basically Mak the number of world bigger correct keeping the same number of bedrooms making them bigger have you thought of making the position smaller the variance is is it's supposed to have 20% coverage you're at 29 yep I mean it's 25 25 for building so you're you're 25% over correct what size of the rooms now and what size will they be when you finish give me one of the rooms you exp one ofro so let's say the current size of bedroom right now is probably I would say maybe around I think like 9 ft by 11 ft small small yeah so I'm kind of taking that and making a little bit bigger into I think uh 12 by 12 or something like that yeah the kitchen is the same what's the kitchen out the kitchen I'm expanding it so that I can put an island in so that we can have so you can eat eat at the island yes currently there's no Island space for an island there it's a very small kitchen well basically what you take is small rooms are making bigger for just correctability okay y do you are you familiar with any runoff issues on your property now no there are no water issues on my property right now I had the architect go through the whole thing and I also had um and bring an engineer over just take a look at it what about neighbors any issues with neighbors and what to run off from your property to theirs I didn't see any and I visited my property and I walked it after rainstorms just to go and take a look at it are there houses on both sides again there's houses on both sides and in the back have any of them have you talk to them about your plans no I haven't spoken to any of my neighbors yeah concern is your plan is you know there's well we might look part of it di Minimus frankly some of it's not so diminished when you're looking at sidey yard set book when you're looking at total coverage and impervious coverage so those are all pretty significant variances you're asking for okay on your phone so the neighbors might have something to say about it I don't know but nobody's here right so we don't know yet yeah we don't know yet [Music] okay if we were to say to you so you're allowed 10% building coverage you're proposing 24 if we were to say to you you have to reduce it a little bit what would you reduce I'd probably have to take away one of the bedrooms anything else on the board I just this is in an R2 Zone yeah so the R2 Zone tight if it were an R3 Zone he wouldn't wouldn't require as big a variance and the really what that that area is like it's more like an R3 Zone building wasn't this R2 wasn't that part of some kind of deal or something where they did the original zoning J you know this is an old neighborhood and there used to be some kind of a it wasn't a cluster provision where you get a park out of it or something like that but there was something in the ordinance you a long time ago yeah you know 40 years ago or something like that well the houses are years old yeah I mean it's a standard size lot for the neighborhood they're all 15,000 more or less which is R3 y yeah you're right so anything you do one those lots somebody's going to need a variance work because of the r yeah we get restrictions are a little bit more yeah Stern I I do think for the Chairman's question of reducing the addition is is kind of where I was talking as well I mean you might need to rethink the size of the new bedrooms size of your kitchen but why don't we see if anybody okay anything else from the board okay just one thing sorry just given the extent of the new impervious surfaces it would qualify as a minor development from a stormm water stand stand point so everything would have to comply with uh section 22 22598 minor storm water uh regulations which it's three inches of rainfall you know over all the new impervious areas so that would be reviewed by the township engineer pending a a board approval so if we were to approve it it would have to have that stipulation Y correct do you understand that yeah I have no problems having an engineer coming in and saying that I need to do some work to alleviate any sort of drainage that we have potential yes I think the only one I assume the addition it's going to have the same sighting or everything's going to match yes that's correct okay this time are there any members of the public who have a question of the applicant is there anyone from the public who is here for this application okay um anything else you want to say um no okay um anyone from the public wish to make a comment on this application for or against okay no one's come forward you look like you have something to say I don't know I mean to me it's even though it's not really very di Minimus he's not really affecting anybody it's for his family it's his property we don't have any really water runoff issues with neighbors no one's here to object and he said he'd agree with the town engineer so I think I'd be voting for it okay then would you like to frame that resolution why not uh application 24 call 29 Frank andina chin Chief 32 bordo Drive clock 753 lot 16 Zone R2 recommend granting a SE variant to construct the one story Edition Ro front porch front stairs front walk deck rear stairs new driveway and expansion generator AC units and pads contrary to section 43035 column 456 1013 and section 430-10 I with the stipulation that he will agree to the the township engineer approval and plan for drainage second ready yesi yes yes ready yes qu yes ready yes will y yes okay your application is approved um at the next meeting uh the it will be memorialized the resolution will be memorialized you'll be good to go okay and when would that I don't know September something okay um so I'm assuming that I'll give uh give Norah a call um anyone know what the day of the next meeting is I think it's the 14th the 14th next meeting the I think it's September 14 14 all right hold on yeah second Wednesday in September September 11 11th all right so on the 12th give her a call confirm you're good to go and good luck to you all right enjoy application 2449 Avis Budget Group good evening Erica Edwards I'm the landing lawyer [Music] here you mind taking the mic not loud so um again here representing um AIS Pledger Group Inc we're getting some hands in the back can you just pull it out of the holder just just hold it feel like rockar there we go okay are we good everybody okay good um third time um representing AIS Budget Group Inc uh in connection with their world headquarters located at 379 interpace Parkway here in the township of parcion um that is for the record block 136 lot 3608 um we are seeking a single C variance single bulk variant for a facade sign um our sign complies in all respects our proposed sign I should say uh with the exception of the fact that uh we're proposing a sign that is more than uh 25 ft above grade uh and that is the basis for the baring Trey that we seek uh we have uh three I have um three Representatives uh with me tonight um our um project engineer uh Mr phel uh from uh bowler engineering uh he will be providing the uh testimony on the site plan and identifying the um uh the sign uh you do have the plans in advance but he will be discussing uh briefly the sign variance that is required uh we also have a representative of uh AIS Budget Group Inc um Mr Jeffy Luna who's right here he is the vice president for Real Estate uh for AIS Budget Group and then uh to my left uh is uh our representatives from service signs uh that's our signed contractor uh and if you would like to hear from them as well or from any of those here representing uh or with with me tonight representing lead this Budget Group we'd be happy to make that happen but we'd like to start with our uh civil engineer if we could raise your right hand please to swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes state your name Joseph H up spelled h o l z a p f e l i have a microphone and I am with bowler engineering address 30 Garber Square Ridgewood New Jersey 07450 thank you I think you've testified before here correct I have a couple times in front of the planning board yes in front of this board of adjustment as well um I believe one of each I'm pretty sure we just quickly go through your cres if you don't mind um so I am licensed in the state of New Jersey for civil engineering since 2021 um went to school in New Jersey Institute of Technology graduated BS in civil engineering and have been with polar engineering for over nine years specializing in site civil design and currently licensed in New Jersey correct I have no more questions about qualifications please callif expert in field engine if you could pull the microphone closer uh uh we offer Mr hopel as a uh an expert in the field of civil engineering okay very good thank you yes sure so as attorney Edwards has has stated um this is the plan that we are proposing It's The Sign variance plan it was part of the application package that the board has received it is dated February 16th 2024 and was prepared by my office for everybody's orientation North is to the top of the page so as you can see really the purpose of tonight's hearing is for the proposed wall sign it is on the front face of the building however that is not the face of the building that is fronting the road so it is tucked in you can see the building orientation has sort of a u shape so it is over the entryway which you can see in the north elevation detail um the sign itself is just over about 43 s ft and as attorney Edwards has indicated we are here tonight for the variance of proposing the sign at about 45 .9 ft above grade that's to the top of the sign whereas the code allows for 25 ft one of the reasons for that you can see in this North elevation detail is it is over the entryway for the Avis Budget Group however some of these um there are windows above the entryway so it is on top of those windows and pretty much uh visible for the interior of the site specifically the parking garage that's in front of it um really not much more in terms of direct testimony happy to answer any questions for the board so in front of this building is a parking garage that correct so if the sign wasn't up there parking garage would be blocking the view of the sign uh generally the parking garage is in front it's a few stories high so it does block the majority of the building from other neighbors so then from the front of the building what what am I looking at as far as Street going lighting and stuff like that any issues there you see so the street is to the east generally um interpace Parkway you're a long way back from the road right oh that's correct I'm answering my own question than yes signs lit internally eliminated 247 well obviously not during the day but all night um I believe so um I mean if that's going to be answered later we can deal with that later we can we can answer that later if that's okay hold on we can we can yeah we can get to it later we'll go one at a time is there any oh I'll hold that question too um you couldn't lower the sign because of that big glass window there right uh generally the idea was to place it above the window to mount it on the the wall y any other questions okay any questions from the public of this witness okay I'm sorry I I can't read the drawing that I have what is this the height of the sign the physical sign itself no no the the the the variance were uh so it's 45.9 and that's to the top of the sign okay no questions from the public no questions from the board second very good we move on to uh the representative from service signs Jonathan this is Jonathan hwin Sor can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you are about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes can you please state your name spell your first and last name name and tell us who you work for uh my name is uh Jonathan holin spells um y n a t h a n my last name uh h o l g u i n so I'm the sign contractor I'm the company who's going to install the sign so I going to answer the question regarding the lighting yeah the signing are going to be 24/7 we're going to add a timer that is going to control we usually the sign usually lies uh automatic it goes on automatic uh 6:00 and it's going to be off like uh 10:00 11:00 at night so it's not all night long no it's not are there any homes in the area that see this sign at all give a second no no okay no resal no residential okay don't what was the time that the sign's going to be shut off uh I'm sorry what time is the sign going to be turned off um going to to be off uh 11:00 at night okay yeah I mean it's adjustable it's an adjustable timer attending for 11:00 so it's part of the larger complex there well hold on you haven't sworn in yet so so I guess we'll leave that question for your got it yeah yeah that's what he say you can adjust the timer so we can go to 12:00 night 10:00 night uh whatever you guys permit it to us yeah that's good so the timer is going to the light's going to come on at dusk and go off at 11 o' at night that's cor good okay okay any other questions from the board questions from the public okay okay very good we'll move on to Mr Luna the representative from AIS Budget Group raise your right hand please do swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth yes state your name spell your first and last name and tell us who your employees sure uh first name Jeffrey last name Luna uh j e FF r y last name l n a and uh I'm the real estate for Avis Budget Group uh Global so um yeah to answer those questions uh we the the timing as far as the signage is concerned is the the timing is uh it's on an automatic sensor so it just comes on at dusk depending on the uh Sunset and then it's on until 11 o'clock at night so what we're doing is just matching the larger complex which is there so we own our building and then there's three adjoining buildings that are owned by uh separate property companies and it's all we're we're just trying to match the same uh timing that's already established there L signs in those other buildings there are yep there uh most of them are Monument signs uh yeah and they're all on the same time buildings themselves I don't uh there are not yeah uh each building has a variety of uh tenants and so uh we own our own building and the other is part of a larger complex so instead of having a conglomerate of signs on the building buildings uh is there anything magic about 11 vers 10:00 no what time are the employees all yeah most employees probably by 6:00 p.m. 6:30 p.m. and then custodial comes custodial is in probably until 9:30 10:00 at night yeah would you be willing to change it to 10 uh we would be yeah of course okay all right any other questions any questions from the public of this witness okay no no one come forward thank you um anything else rest on all the testimony all righty if the board approves it we need a note on that plan with eyes showing time be live okay anyone on the board want to make a statement on this application well Avis has been a good uh corporate Citizen and uh part participant in parcion and I think this is a reasonable request to uh help reflect their business uh and so I'll be voting in favor of it all right someone want to frame the resolution let me do it application 24 49 a is Budget Group incorporation 379 inace Parkway block 136 blocks 36.8 Zone s- 5A to Grant are issue see to protol signs second ask on the condition with respect to the lighting as well yes yes condition burit yes bani yes josy yesd yes Quin yes ready yes yes okay thank you so much application is approved have a good night ready to go [Music] okay motion to adjourn the special 7:00 meeting move second all right all those in favor right all right we have three minutes we do cuz I know that's two minutes fast because when I look at that I got yelled at all right here we go 7:30 good evening again everyone announcement is made that adequate notice of this meeting has been given and that it is being conducted in accordance with njsa 10 4-6 at SEC of the New Jersey open public meetings act Nora once again please call the RO Mr Burt pres Mr gani here Mr J here Mr Petty yes Mr Quin here Mr ready pres Mr will here chairman Kaplan here our board planner Mr Chadwick our board engineer Mr W and our board attorney Mr Johnson here okay um we have done the Pledge of Allegiance already this evening and both professionals already swor okay great okay so at this time I will open the meeting to the public if anyone in the audience has business to conduct in front of the board that is not on tonight's agenda now is the time to do so okay everyone's here for agenda items and we will jump right into 2441 oh I'm sorry I am reading the resolutions that's what I'm doing um okay so we have resolutions to approve 2441 2433 2426 2425 and 2423 4133 and 26 can be done together 41 and 36 3 26 and 33 yes the first three okay um can I get a motion to approve the first three second 30 all right all those in favor no we got to go through the order grani yes Quinn yes ready yes willings yes okay um applications 2425 and 2423 need to be done separately separately 2425 motion for that moved second okay berwitz yes Jos yes pedy yes Quinn yes ready yes as well yes okay and 2423 motion Mo second okay yes grani yes yes py yes yes yes okay all right now to the real business for tonight 2432 Ronald farington come on down eight West [Music] Morris can you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes state your name spell your first and last name and give us your address please name is Ron parrington r n f a r r i n g21 here for okay you are looking to do a 61.5 ft addition with a 143.5 ft roof uh entranceway 21t of stairs 225 ft of patio 112 Square ft of old walkway 388 for a second story Edition and also an air conditioning unit all of which require 1 two 3 4 five six variances for yards and accessories and coverage so how big is this lot it's an undersized lot it'ser trying to find the size of it like oh no it's 2400 ft okay I didn't know okay 24 all right give us the rundown of what you're looking to do uh you need to use the microphone also for our friends on the back all I'm looking to do is currently there's porch that goes out to the existing Foundation I'm looking to close that in make that part of the house there's a step in from the house to that porch and we're going to just square that off with a new porch uh and then add a small patio and a walkway going from those steps to the driveway steps that's it okay and the air conditioning unit there's nowhere else to put it what is the patio going to consist on uh either papers or boost Stone I haven't decided yet water can get through it no it'll be imp Pur you want to make it going to CL it you mean I'm sorry you going to them in between get between the pavers uh I can I mean if you it's better if it's not no then no whatever whatever you need me to do these little and you put any kind of hard surface on them water's got to go someways question okay so you uh looked at you got the information the here talking about uh the applicants uh you're going to have significant uh increase in storm water run up from the property question is did you receive the August 8th Memo from the engineer I did not I never do how would I have rece that I would guess US male yeah I mean it's a pretty hefty report on runoff as you would expect when you are covering 64.5% of the property true so what he's saying is uh I'm going from memory here you're going to have to do some mitigation for the runoff and also you're going to need a um soil moving permit a minor soil moving permit because your property is not level he also says it's going to be the road is slanted so forgive me I haven't read this no I understood understood uh what exactly is he looking for do the whole road is slanted and uh he just he's looking for you to ensure that the runoff is handled properly and that he's saying that you will need a permit to move the amount of soil that you are looking to move okay what is you should read it because one of the lines also states that it could be expensive that's where I was going with this right are we looking for a a holding tank or what are we looking for so here's what we're going to suggest we've been here before so this is kind of the scpt TR protect you here too you have to comply with this engineer's request here and before you proceed for us to approve this application it might be worthy for your time to make sure you want to proceed if what you need to do exceed your budget and your needs our our approval is going to be conditioned upon you meeting the requirements of the engineer so what I'm going to suggest is that we carry this you talk to him and get ask all the qu he's the one who's going to be able to answer these questions uh you see his name up at the top there making a point meet with him and then you're going to decide how you want to proceed okay I'll have to do yeah I think that's cuz if we say yes it's conditioned upon that and we could lock you into a lot of money I understand yeah we're trying to help you okay no I appreciate that you talking about the size of the patio sorry you may be discussing with the engineer the size of the patio okay we make the adjustments as necessary yeah so what's the next date you have for october3 October 23rd so you're asking the board to carry your application apparently yes and you're granting the board all necessary extensions to rule on your application correct correct okay and I will I will state on the record once again we need a system where when the engineering department issues a memo the applicants get them because this is probably the sixth time in the last five meetings four meetings we've done this and this was dated August 8 yeah almost two weeks ago that what what is going on why is this happening seriously do you know where it was sent huh I'm working that off I'm guessing nowhere but I don't know that for sure I got everything else from you guys so not from us well from the town from the town this is the only thing I haven't gotten yeah and it typically is we need a system right all right iies for the second time out but we're doing this in your best interest okay on oh was anyone here for that this application okay I think I know which one you're here for go out on the limb all right next one is sorry 2446 David bisits 57 Intervale Road [Music] okay can you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay have someone with you today brought a friend can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and not the next truth yes okay so we you still need your name spell your last name give us your address please yes my name is uh David Bitz last name is spelled b i s k w i TZ um please speak into the microphone my address is uh 57 inel K Ken fox fox architectural design uh Led Led with New Jersey I am the architect and professional planner for the applicant I Bo this board and numerous boards uh as a architect professional planner um and my licenses are I'm going to cut to the chase did you get the memo from the engineering department got the original one and everybody today just out of curiosity how did you get it mail email emails after call emails okay called it several times yeah just you called him I called him s times that's the way to do it okay do the revised plan reviewed by the engineer contain a zoning table cuz they weren't here in time for the zoning officer to review them the submitted drawing the one the original submitted drawing was reviewed by the the zoning officer but you're I understand that your your drawings were revised based upon the suggestions by the township engineer original there there is a zoning table on the original submiss I understand that but my question is has that changed with respect to the revised plans okay with respect to the revised plans no we're here tonight to make a revision to that based on uh based on the engineers report and our discussions with the engineer and his his uh we his report which came out this afternoon and we made our uh deck smaller and we renoved imperious coverage we're going to end up with our testimony we end up with no impious variant and um the table will change have to be change is that information just was completed today okay so that so you did not submit a revised set of plans to the engineer you just had a discussion with him that's correct okay well just I did send in a letter describing all the details uh in detail in the email uh but no drawing okay so do you have calculations as to what the revised plans will require in terms of the impervious coverage or is it going to remain the same as what's existing we're going to revise our drawings to show patios we remove uh gr installs 199 ft testimony and we're going to make the the um deck itself 24 ft smaller by reducing it in two Dimensions which will make this say 0% increase in impervious removing that uh removing that variance there's uh is existing I think 1.3% over but uh that's it's going to remain it's going to be a 0% increase for this and the uh Justin lizza the engineer uh gave a followup letter followup report today um I have a time stamp on here for you this afternoon and in this I gu I assume that you have that copy of this the revised Memo from today yes yes and and in that the uh based on that revision there will be no increase in puras and therefore go management will not be required good okay what about the other variants app request are those going to stay the same yes we have we have uh conru of the deck within this within the side within the side yard and I believe that's the only one there existing uh not for the house the only new variant or the only variance that we're uh seeking I believe is the side guard variant that well there's a accessory sidey guard variance 6 FTS allowed you're proposing 3.3 that has not changed we are going to take six we make it 6 in farther away in order to take off the deck we were taking 6 in off that so that will increase it the setback will increase by 6 in 6 in farther away from the property line but it will still be so it'll be 3' 9 in instead of 33 correct 3.3 3.8 set okay good it's supposed to be six well allow is six yes it is the 3.3 existing is the existing home and we're we're going to have our new deck 6 in farther away from the property line inside it's not going to be parallel I get it why why didn't you just slide the whole thing over oh we had to we had to reduce the St footage I know that but you've got it off to the corner of the house what what prevents it is meeting an existing Landing um which if it's not meeting the existing Landing that would even increase more previous coverage for a new Landing okay whether you have the PV patio that's you this is outside the PaPeRo there's a landing there that we're meeting with okay and the reason I asked those questions at the outset is because I know that Miss Smith did not have the benefit of a revised drawing to be able to redo her calculations on her review so that that was and I know that all kind of happened today yes okay and so I asked those questions just to make sure the board understood that things are changed in terms of what you're asking for now with respect to variances but from the testimony is saying it's changed in the favor so the variances they're looking for is less so your perious coverage will stay at 2777 no 3133 is what is what Jennifer's got well it says I thought you said you want to stay with the existing coverage impervious coverage stays to say which is 31.3 three correct no change so there's no there's no Zing the zoning schedule plan chose 2777 so I by mine are done with our computer calculating all the areas on there and uh those are correct and that is what we have our application I do know that uh Jennifer I believe the engineer also do their own calculations somehow and I I don't have those listed but I can assure you that what we've submitted for the calculations is uh clst to exact I don't know how you can say that your approv coverage is going to be the same when you're adding a deck because the existing provide that that testimony I have to exhibit [Music] okay anybody follow me what I'm saying he's reducing it but he's still putting new Jack back so uh I have a exhibit on label A1 and it is uh labeled the postc plant and photos it is dated today and it is a board with uh six photos of the yard and a blown up uh plan of the deck existing patio area to the rear of the house and on this area um as shown on the original sub however very small we have showing accurate drawing of the existing patio in the back which has a very low wall surrounding it there's a built go door and there's an air conditioning unit here we're taking all of that which is now patio area has been part of the impervious coverage of the lot uh Jennifer calculated that we calculated that with previous coverage we are removing all the patio material all the heart material there you answer the question thank this plan doesn't show okay so we are going to maintain the impervious coverage as calculated by the zoning department we have a zero increase okay yes the the impervious coverage existing calculated by the zoning department is 31.3 3% which is different than what you calculated I understand but I wanted you to know what you said you didn't know what that number was I'm telling you what that number was well I have I have her oh you do have herw okay yeah well why don't we do is the board approves it you will remove the paper patio and Sh we make an exhibit on that that's what he's proposing to do no the exhibit shows what what it is where it is exhibit shows where it is shows the amount of 199 ft it shows on our deck we're removing one foot off the rear 6 in off the right side and that is shown in shade there that is the additional 35 ft for our 224 ft that we have on our uh you labeled that A1 and I've label this A1 okay and that's what you live with okay got it any other questions from the board question I apologize so in in Miss Smith's review letter she she also pointed out a variance for yards and Courts open decks is that changed with the [Music] revision you have her July 2nd 2024 review [Music] [Music] note do we have that what do you have but we don't [Music] have right here yeah the a minimum unless I miss off minim I just want to make sure I got the numbers right for the resolution that's why I'm concerned yeah so I'm not aware of the yard in Courts open deck uh section and exactly what it includes uh but I that does include patio erors uh as I believe testified our now revised uh submission uh is removing the patio area removing portion of the deck so that we have a 0% increase on uh patio patios and deck and coverage but I believe that uh again I don't know the exact wording of your ordinance for that but I believe that that uh would make that uh so then you're no longer going to need a variance for yards and Courts open decks based upon the revisions to the plans I believe that's true need a Vari don't know I understand the setback is different I yep the setback has changed which we talked about it's now it's no longer 3.3 ft it's 3.8 ft right okay and you're comfortable withdrawing the request for a variance for yards and Courts open decks because you believe you no longer need that is that correct what uh I said I believe that I do not know the wording of your ordinance the definition of yards and Courts open de if indeed that means uh includes patios and decks then I am confident uh that we do not have Rance that so Mr Johnson I get exactly what you're doing but are we really just talking about 1.77% yeah I understand that I know I'm not saying you're wrong I totally get what you're saying you want him to be aware he's not asking for that anymore I that's what I understand right well but well you just want to ask for the extra 1.77% say that not KN not knowing and being aware of the definition we will still request that bearance from the board and uh and our testimony is that our actual is May as testified but we will we will we do ask for that VAR so that we're not restricted to something that we're not aware of I understand and this is all because Miss Smith didn't have a revised plan to be able to redo the calculations not that and I understand everything happened today fine and sometimes that happens so okay anything else I have no more questions all right anything else from the board got a thumbs up to the left thumbs up to the right any questions uh from the public of either of the gentlemen up in front of you all right no questions anyone from the public wish to uh make a statement either for or against this application no one's come forward someone from the board please uh make a statement on this application yeah I think it's the Minimus in nature you're going along with the engineer we're not really changing anything you got rid of two requests so I'll be voting for it okay someone want to frame the resolution go ahead Scott application 24 calling 26 uh 46 David biscits 57 Intervale road block 441 uh block 8 Zone R3 recommend granting a c variant to construct an open Deck with stairs contrary section 43035 columns 8 and 13 section 430-10 I second ready yes Rani yes G yes Eddie yes twin yes ready yes willing yes yes okay result is the application is granted based on the discussion we had tonight September 11th it will be uh the resolution will be approved and you're free to go on September 12th thank you very much for your time all right thank you appreciate you reducing that impervious coverage as [Music] well la I had another one on Lewis did that get adjourned Lewis oh um yes that the they got carried they got carried okay yeah they didn't know this okay got they never know I had it on I sent you an email you did okay sure you did application 1921 Pacific outdoor advertising of operations good J here [Music] Mr O'Neal you everyone Joseph O'Neal The Firm G follow O'Neal rero here on behalf of the applicant actually the plaintiff because this is a remand of a case from Superior Court captioned Pacific outdoor advertising versus the Board of adjustment and the township regarding a denial of their application previously we have noticed in accordance with rule rules commonly referred to as Whispering Woods rules which is a case that stands for an outlin how a board retakes jurisdiction to hear a uh stipulation of s and that's what we hear on this evening Justus a stipulation so we're not going to be talking about the variances we're not going to be talking about the proofs of the variances or anything like that we're just going to be talking about the stipulation of itself so with that I do know that the board had a couple of questions and asked us to prepare photo exhibits showing the visual impact of the modified board and for that I have John MCD I think that would be helpful perhaps before you get to that testimony maybe just for the benefit of the board's refreshing of their recollection and for the benefit of the members of the public they may be in the audience maybe you should it would be helpful to run through the the conditions of the stipulation of s the the the um modifications in general that your client has agreed to make as a as part of the settlement of the lawsuit yes thank you Mr Johnson along those lines this is I'll remind you a proposed billboard at the Palam Towing location uh the billboard was originally proposed the height bounced around a little bit but what was voted on was about 60 foot in height and now it's down to 55 ft in height it was proposed to have two uh video uh faces where each face flips with the electronic messages um I forget exactly how many messages seconds eight seconds yeah now what we've done is the Eastern facing or right facing side of the sign we've made that a traditional static billboard uh which will be illuminated up until midnight and on the other face we're incorporating technology that narrows the field of vision that you could actually see the billboard with so there is a cone of impact uh that once you're to a certain angle to De side the board actually goes dark we we have an exhibit of that see and so after the board initially denied your client's application your client through you as their attorney filed a lawsuit against the board um alleging not only that the board's decision to deny the application was arbitrary and capricious and unreasonable but that the zoning ordinances of the tanip of pipany are unduly restrictive when it comes to com allowing commercial speech such as Billboards so so much so that they potentially violate the First Amendment of the United States Constitution so while that lawsuit was pending and the town was rep represented by its Insurance Council you on behalf of your client and the attorney for the the town and this board negotiated these changes with respect to the application uh that um were the I would submit with a process of some very intense negotiations on on both this board's part the town's part and your client's part that resulted in the compromise uh that was memorialized in a conditional stipulation of settlement yes there was quite a bit of back and forth with the board quite a bit back and forth with the township which is also a part and if the board ratifies this settlement this evening uh the whole case will be settled not just against the board but against the township but the characterization of the discussions is true was everybody had opinions and uh we're able to work in that and I just wanted to make sure that we prefaced how we got here today both for the board's benefit and for the Public's benefit yes Mr John okay thank you Mr O'Neal so you have a witness Mr McDon Mr McDon [Music] [Music] great Mr can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do so Mr M is a professional planner and we'll submit him of course for that this evening but the primary reason we're submitting Mr M is because he prepared the photo simulations that you are about to see was done under your direction isn't that true uh correct these are actually photos not photo simulations well they they have elements in them like the arrow for instance yes yes yes yes that was done yes so with that let's go ahead and Mark that I think it's because it's the ratification we can start with A1 again so Mr chairman with your permission uh for the record A1 is going to be a three-part exhibit it's going to be two photographs uh actually taken back on April 9th 2022 about two years ago when we conducted a crane test out there um to show the height of the billboard at its location at 60 ft um we know it's been now reduced to 55 ft above grade uh but this photo documents what we saw when we're out there on that date I going start on my right I'll just let it come on over I understand have this exra one sure what I'm going to do for the Public's benefit since there we don't have a way to show you uh on a projection or anything uh I'm going to take one of these packets and just pass it you guys can take turns just looking at it uh if we have more than one extra I'll whatever extras I'll pass around draw it on the na we can this is as it was originally proposed right this is reduced down to was originally tested at 60 ft and this is reduced down to 55 ft so for instance in the first exhibit is disappeared behind the [Music] building so it looks like everybody has it first thing you'll see is a view of the crane and I put an arrow to show where the crane would represent the top of the billboard height if were at 60 ft above grade level and you can see from this vantage point over at the corner of noble and Littleton Road looking back to the east this is where the residential homes would be off of of Littleton that there was a piece of the sign that actually pierced the top of the roof the applicant has now reduced that down so that the sign from this Vantage would be hidden by the building itself this is about 900 ft away from where the sign would be and then in the second page of the exhibit I went all the way down to seros you've got the dip in the road um again just a photo document that once you're down there, 1500 ft away um the sign like the sunset recedes into the building and and you don't you don't see it and then finally the last frame is the view of an actual sign in place that utilizes what um you heard Council say is this light mitigation technology which reduces the cone of vision of the sign of the illumination so that it's pointed essentially at the roadway and when you're standing on the side for this for example here this sign is on but you don't realize that from this Vantage Point uh because it's all dark and that relates to the light mitigation technology so the the three elements of change here um in the interest of settlement are the light mitigation technology uh the reduction in the sign height down to 55 from 60 ft and now a static display which would be I'll say on the residential side so if that you're driving eastbound we call it a left read and you're looking over at the sign that's going to be a static display if you're going what we would call a right read That's driving westbound on Route 80 that's where the sign would have that electronic display display that's pointed away from the residential dwellings again facing the motoring public coming westbound on Route 80 those were the three key changes and this was East and West correct yes if I'm driving westbound on Route 80 that's going to be a right read you're going to see that on your right hand side as as you're driving and that's going to be the electronic display that's going to be the um static display static display is when you're driving west east facing static if you come under the precip bevard bridge that face you'll see is going to be stabed exactly right gotcha so that's the right if I'm coming east on 80 I'll see the digit that's that's the electronic display and one of the things when you went through the stipulations I thought there was a stipulation agreed to that the construction of the digital face is such that the B the lights themselves are either inserted or in some kind of a cup it's like a traffic signal it's got a put I'll remind Mr Chad we turn turn that language into appropriate technology to render counter Vision to be visible is a wing appropriate Tech technology then well I that's not how it was described in the literature of the manufacturers so that's why we use the language we did we all agreed that the wings would be put on the side you would not be able to see it yeah like this this technology okay how about we expand the appropriate technology to CL includes such as is that agreeable well the language that was ultimately settled on got to something that could be easily un understood and enforced that's why we got to that specific language on the light mitigation technology to you um yeah it's it's completely enforceable for this limited cone of visibility also with respect to the static side I'm sorry well the static site goes off at midnight turns back on at 6:00 a.m. and accordance with the stipulation should the lights be needed as suc right but they go off [Music] the and that really is it so just if there are any questions regarding what Mr mcdunn presented otherwise it's the details of the stipulation which are before the board and of course were published in the notice of Public's aware of it also that is it I have a question yes we have photos here from April the 9th 2022 well that was provided for a as part of the settlement that's really not part of a record okay my question is with the new technology that you're proposing how is this going to affect the homes that are on the other side how is this going to be affecting their visibility to this side when you say homes on the other side you mean on the other side of 80 yes the nose of the sign is pointed at that those homes not the face of the sign so they'll see the they'll see the point of the sign not not the face not the panels it'll be going to see it being either electronic or or or static that that's correct in of course we have a lit highway in between the sign and those homes thank you yeah the house immediately across uh we only see the black like the third photo um nobody else is in the Cici that we were able to any other questions from the board no all right at this at this time uh we will open up the uh the meeting to questions of this witness on this testimony based on his testimony if you have a question this is not the time for your opinions and let me back up let me explain how this is going to work this might be the first meeting for some of you this is an opportunity there are two opportunities for you to speak as members of the public the first opportunity which is this one you get to ask questions based on what he testified to and that's it you will have an opportunity then to come up at a later Point very soon after this where you can say I love this project I hate this project whatever you want you get to speak about the application and give your opinions so this time it's questions based on what he said right here tonight and that's it got it all right you're up chairman can I just ask our attorney something off the Record is that appropriate or not off the Record to go off the Record we have to go into executive s forget it you can ask me I mean if you want we could ask them to all leave no give them your cell phone number no address well I guess I could ask you this when deciding are we able to say how we got to where we got to I I thought that was the purpose of Mr O'Neal and my's colloquy in the beginning got here but what happens if we also had something else that entered in that might have been discussed previously but was not discussed yet um as long as it's not protected by attorney client privilege if you want to make a comment such as that while you're making a comment about whether to okay adopt um got whether to confirm the settlement or not I think that's fine I would just be wary of anything that might fall within the purview of attorney client privilege understood all right i' ask you just to grab a mic thank [Music] you you state your name address and then you may proceed right 15 Maplewood Drive um of the the third picture is a picture of what an actual sign at height is but it's not taken from anywhere in the location of where the sign is planned and and I wanted to know why not because with GIS programs everything such a rendering could be done particularly from across related and um the intent was really just to be representative to show that when you're looking at the sign face from an angle as opposed to headon um the copy disappears since part of the discussion in the previous test testimony issue in front part of it was the view from across B and uh we were we would be interested could it be possible to have a rendering that shows it from a cross at this point that'd be very [Music] difficult uh nich HC Lake Kwan uh I have here a if you're I'm sorry sir if you're going to testify now is not the time for Testimony it's it's a question to do with this uh with what you have in your hand yes sir [Music] okay are you so are you this photo was presented by the Peterson landscape architect as the previous setting okay do you have a question sirry do you have a question this witness this engineer show me with the obstructed sign here shown in Orange the actual reduction of the view from the historic property the blight of the orange and the actual size compared to that landscape if there is reduced 5 ft can he I'm I'm going to interject here because uh this photo was not prepared by Mr MCD so we really don't know about the veracity of the underlying data and I don't want Mr McDon to speculate on top of a photo that we're not sure if it's where it came from and that was part of the original application perhaps I don't remember it but it was a while ago this is just about the settlement not not about the test uh okay I thought part of the settlement was the appropriate appropriateness of the placement of the sign and part of it was uh the historic property no that's it's about the stipulation C so the question right now is only questions of Mr McDonna as to the testimony he gave this evening would this question be appropriate is this sign will this sign be dominantly commercial or non-commercial is that an appropriate question that has nothing to do with the testimony from this evening okay the only thing Mr McDon testified this evening about was the changes to the height and operation of the sign that was agreed to as part of the stipulation of settlement so if you have questions about that that's the cone of the view I I thought my first question was the cone of view and I'm showing the cone of view from the historical trust Pro the the applicant's objection is that we have no idea whether that's accurate or not so to expect him to comment on that is UN I think Mrs Peters she's not up here right now okay all right [Music] thank you hi Betty um Court first evening how are you would you spell your last name please w y k a and what was your address one Ben and Court we're number one how often do you use that line my favorite 30 um just a question with regard to the drop test for the um that was done the first time has a new drop test been done for the second for the lower height for the new proposed hepe not that I'm aware of no okay so there's no actual there's been no actual um example of where it hold not that I'm aware of no okay thank [Music] [Music] you Mary piki 19 Road can you speak up please speak up just hold it Clos your mouth all right um I was just wondering when you all aware that they did trest do you want to [Music] sit I imagine you're all aware that they did the crane test and when they did the crane test and they showed on the picture where 60 ft is and you're just going to reduce it another 5T is that what you're saying yes so was the board aware of how the crane test was done so that you can figure out it's about the same height 5T is nothing okay so I don't know if you had um the results of the crane test or not is that a question for Mr McDonna do you have the results of the cran test I I showed the result it's really it's really not part of the case this evening though he did base that one photo or two photos on that crane test he voted he so we're limited to those two photos and that's your two photos of the crane test yes these are two representative photos of the cran yes yes why why wasn't there photo photos taken when you did the crane test then from pipany Road that's only from A View that really is obstructed by the tree oh I not supposed to ask okay what why didn't you take um a picture of the crane test from pipany road on the bridge by Route 80 or even after that where where more or less uh Livingston Park is Mr presy these exhibits were prepared at the direction of the board to answer specific questions that the board had well that's my question can I ask a question answer yeah the answer that's the answer yeah these were prepared their request that's what they want well apparently maybe it should have been a little bit more questions oh sorry so can I ask a question just real quick so in the first pict where the yellow arrow is and it points to that little part that is visible right that's at 60 ft 55 that was at 55 that was at 60 so now that little part might not even be seen that's my point right so even though it's it's a small percentage of this the the the number it might be the only part that mattered cuz it was the only part seen that is that is the point okay from this view from this view correct yes yes any other members of the public [Music] questions okay last call all right we'll close that portion comment comment do you have anything else just so this is the time where you have the opportunity to come up and uh voice your opinions uh I would ask that you be respectful and not only of the board the applicant but also the clock okay we're not going to do 20 minute filibusters per person and no redundancy come on up say what you have to say and that's your shot [Music] Julia Peterson 25 Old precip Road why would I I don't know why you would want that that's say this is about the uh I know right I understand that can you raise your right hand please can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give to be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do can you state your name and spal last okay Julia Peters 25 W person um since 2019 Pacific outdoor advertising has been trying to erect this sign the first series of hearings ended in 202 2022 and many of us were at all those hearings there were quite a number and uh since then the only thing that really has changed about the sign is it's 5T shorter and the lighting is a little different it's still an enormous structure that's going to be on the highest point in central precion until you get to Fox Hill um as it stands uh if you look at the elevations of the various points the reduce sign will be at 3877 FT above sea level and at that height it will be visible actually from town hall parking lot it will be visible from Waterview it will be visible from the precip road bridge and from the Littleton Road Bridge now I'm not saying you can read it from there but the structure of this thing which is 60 feet by 40 feet well 55 ft I mean it's big big thing going to be visible okay so if I may just have a moment Mr chairman I'd like to eject by way of bringing up that my notice as is the notice with most of these uh settlements it's very limited in what could actually be discussed M piki is going Beyond I'm not Mrs piki sorry Peterson I'm very sorry uh Miss Peterson is going beyond what I really noticed for so okay point that out to the I thought we were allowed to say what we why we are all right I'll be very clear I POS this and I pose it because I live across Road 80 from it it's 250 ft from the wall of my house when there's a structure there I'm going to be living with it for as long as I live in that house and it's been the mission of me my parents my grandparents to try to preserve this house for the town of pipany I don't think that we can persuade someone else to live there maybe we're crazy enough to live there with a sign on one side and a Tru cous on the other side possibly but I don't know the other thing about I mean I don't understand the Misty Meadows procedure because all of the testimony that went into those hearings which we sat through was completely I mean it's it's an insurance settlement but we were not represented in those negotiations at all we actually have no standing um anyhow all of the object ctions that we had are still true which is it's 250 ft from our house we're going to look out the window and see it and the house is important to the history p of precip and of New Jersey and of the United States so you know you guys got to do what you got to do but I do have to say that it's clear that the town of pipany doesn't share our goal of preserving our house and believe me that's a little heartbreaking for me but I can it's clear to me that the town of pipany doesn't really care what happens to our house because they can settle to put a very large structure right across R 80 from it um I wanted to I do have a couple of pictures which I want am am I allowed to enter pictures I've made my objection it's it's up to the chair okay well I won't but you've seen these I wonder how many people in the board got to see all of the testimony from the hearings or whether it was reviewed before the negotiations started and I wonder why the negotiations didn't include us since we're the closest to it with the exception of the people in Hills of Troy okay and I won I won't press this I have all this stuff I'll just go back we we watched the crane test from our I have all the pictures of the cran test and I know where this sign will be visible from and I don't think it's a good look for pipany Miss Peterson you were represented by an attorney the other right yes so why didn't he join the case why didn't he join the case he offered to he offered to and the attorney he offered his his memorandum of Law and it was rejected no I mean join the case he's an attorney you have standing why didn't he no we do not have standing because you had standing in the yeah well I wondered that too but we were not informed about it it is true that we should have had standing and we should have been informed but we were not I'm [Applause] sorry can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing much truth I do say your name SP last name Nancy Brighton b r i g h t o n where do you live 15 Maplewood Drive and also speaking as the chair for the historic preservation advisory committee I will second Miss Peterson's uh response on this because the town has very the town this the zoning board and the planning board have shown little respect for the historic property and that the Petersons weren't included or it wasn't considered in what whatever negotiations you had this board the planning everybody knows where the Livingston Benedict house is and understands its significance all of you have been there all of you have been at events there but we've you've let continuing to let things to be encroached upon it and that is what this is the threat I'm not admittedly I'm not a lawyer but I do know that four states have complete and total bans on billboards so it's is pretty much probably a very good idea and I done a little research not a lot but Billboards based on location is not a First Amendment challenge but you've made negotiations you've settled out a court for whatever reason don't want to put the town through it but you just put a historic property a very significant one to at risk we are planning to hold we've got the Town Council seem to be interested New Jersey Revolution 250 in 2026 we will be celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United States with the Declaration of Independence what property in this town did you think was going to be the Hallmark is now going to have a billboard that we will have to put up with and another intrusion in addition to whatever proposed Warehouse structure is going to go down there so that's the concern that you had the information from the first one to consider the historic property in whatever negotiations you were doing with regard to whatever lawsuit was going on and greater consideration and a greater understanding should have entered those negotiations thank you wait a I have I have the house the house itself has been designated historic hasn't it you please uh the question was that the house has been designated historic it is was listed on the national register in 1973 for its connections to William Livingston as well as as a representative of 18th century architecture and the tavern that was located there but the grounds were specifically excluded from that designation because the house had been moved number one and number two it's on a rail it's on a uh roadway siding so it is not historic ground it's a historic house you do not have a historic view ship and this was covered in the hearing and I answer nature of this we're not really supposed to be covering it but since you're bringing it up I want to ask you has that designation changed so since the hearing the design the national register nominate nomination has not form has not been amended or updated because typically it requires someone you have to go back and do the research it requires somebody to pay uh someone with expertise to do that well you're being a little fast and loose I'm not I'm not finished sitting on the I am not finished I am when I have a in my day job I have 32 years as a historic preservation professional working for still working for a federal agency if a federal agency came in like the do or another agency was going to do something and had to look at the Peterson's house and took that nomination form and said only the house is elig is listed on the national register everything else isn't the New Jersey state historic preservation office would write a letter that said that's very nice but the the nomination was done in 1973 1973 was 7 years after the national register was created and was among the first things they were actually doing those nominations in preparation of the bicentennial so they were nominating properties that were related to the Revolutionary War and so they focused on that if I was to look at that property today if the national parks Savers was to look at that property today they would look at that property not only as the house and it's never just a house it's a house and grounds they would look at they would look at true it is true because you have archaeology associated with the house with the structure we seem to have gone a field of the purpose of it would the entirety would be a historic district today do you have any more comments on the proposed settlement agreement no thank you all right while the next person comes up I I am going to make a statement at the end end but there is something there is something that I I do want to respond to this because there there were some some mudslinging towards this board and I I do feel that as the chair it is my obligation to address that um the the last spe the last member of the public um was making some assumptions about our discussions um to say that we didn't show respect or consideration for the property or where the sign is or any aspect of this application or settlement is patently false you were not part of any of our conversations you do not know what questions we asked you do not know how heated the conversations got you do not know that we left work early to have these conversations to represent what we feel is in everyone's best interest and you are forgetting that we already rejected this application okay so I would just ask that you focus on your statements about the application really more the settlement and leave the Vol not throw mud at this board I'll set [Music] Dave please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do you state your name spell your last name Terry Crown k r a US SS and what is your address 109 Del go drive thank you um so I'm here to voice opposition as is everybody behind me to the proposed lighted billboard in our neighborhood which would be illuminated 18 hours a day 7 days a week this prop proposal was unanimously denied in the past and the Minor Adjustments made by the developers such as reducing the height by a mere 5T do nothing to address the core concerns we've previously stated the reduction in height is insignificant in mitigating the impact this billboard would have on our community it still poses the same threats disrupting the visual landscape contributing to light pollution disrupting the natural rhythm of Wildlife and undermining the quality of the life we cherish in our neighborhood we pride ourselves on tranquility and natural beauty of our surroundings qualities that are incompatible with the constant glare of artificial light furthermore this proposal brings into question the legality of having two principal uses on the same property this sets a concerning precedent and could lead to further complications in future developments our small area has already seen significant growth and with more development on the horizon we must be vigilant in protecting the Integrity of our community we've said no to this before and the reasons remain the same let's stand together once again to ensure that our neighborhood remains safe peaceful and a way well regulated place to [Applause] [Laughter] live can you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do state your name spell your last name and give us your address please Nicholas hamak h o m y a k and address 26 onid Avenue in no Lake high okay that was one of the funniest things you've said thank you I wish they changed the name of the town or the section of the town uh it's more of the PO what we're dealing here with is a complex ecology involving the landscape the house all living all things living and non-living including the visual environment this sign is is still too big it's a visual blight a light trespass and an invasion of privacy for the historic uh property and anyone who lives or visits it or tries to experience any element of what the life was for the first governor of independent New Jersey we have more ample Alternatives exist uh for commercial or non-commercial speech or messages so there's many things of available uh besides a large intruding sign uh and not to repeat myself I don't understand why the highlands wasn't involved with this because they do protect and they can give uh comment or advice on the preservation or the maintenance of historical properties so if the highlands is missing from all this I would contend there's something wrong at the very least it should have been a a Highlands referral uh the only uh the last part I I can say and I have to say I can't see how ppan can honestly say that they want to celebrate 250 years of Independence and this it's this landscape is already it's been intruded by enough and it is the mansion and the landscape and the community simply doesn't want it I'm an American I don't want it I don't want it and I'll leave it at that [Applause] can you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give should be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes can you state your name spell your last name please Mary priki P Ur zy C Ki and what is your address not 19 Pocono Road in Denville okay the one thing I would like to mention and I believe it can be proven that the land that the Livingston Benedict house is on is also deed protected when it was registered with the state of New Jersey you can check that with the Peterson so it's not just the house it's the land that's on the house house too it's historic sight significant do you have any comments on this settlement agreement Julie you are misrepresenting the designations do you have any we we'll note that objection do you have anything on this application do I have anything on the application yeah I really do no I have a statement to make about the Livingston bentic property do you have any comment to make with respect to the settlement agreement with the sign with the settlement agreement do you have any you know unfortunately we don't have access to the whole settle agreement and like um Mrs Peterson said they weren't aware of that that it was strictly between the town I imagine the board and the sign people Mr can you comment on what your notice said please we uh attached it to the notice it was published in the paper it was also mailed to everybody so you have a copy of the stipulation itself what when was it published in the The Daily Record yeah what when do you happen to have that CU I hav have it right in front because there was things published in the Daily Record today that I read and the dates were wrong but beside the point under the Public Notices just bear with me one second and who was notified exactly everyone within 200t everyone within 200 ft all right well can I just go on with with my statement while he's looking as long as August 9th the mailings went out and the publication was done [Music] August 9th pardon August 9th August 9th it was noticed yes and published okay so then can I just make my statement as long as it has to do with the terms of the settlement agreement yes well the settlement agreement seems to um agree that a Shan sign should go there I would imagine that's basically what this is all about tonight and that it would be maybe smaller or changed in a different direction that's not supposed to affect the property but we he feel it will affect the property if you just look at the sign on 287 and you tell me you can't see that sign in Lake precion I don't know where you've been you're nearly not looking and if you're on the high way it's a distraction yeah I tried to read that sign on Route 287 myself and I can't when I'm well I'm old too but I I mean I I literally cannot the car is going faster than my eyes are to that sign which really should be on the road just like these signs that they keep putting on the highways but my main concern here tonight is the very fact that the federal government and you can look this one up the Federal government when rud 80 was being designed through pipy it would have taken the Livingston Benedict property everything on it including the property the federal government then the um in Livingston where uh there's a museum about the Revolutionary War in Governor Livingston they petitioned the state of New Jersey enough people came around and they moved a Federal Highway because of the Integrity of that property and that house and its Heritage and now we are just going to degrade what that concept of a good Historic Site should be in ppon yet and how many are there left thank [Music] you next up anyone else from the public before I close it okay we'll close uh the public comment portion of this meeting conference if you want to you don't have to do we need to go into conference okay sure not sure if we're not sure we might as well do it I think we should okay motion to go into conference move second all right who would like to start well I'll start I guess uh the issue here is uh the applicant filing suit against this board and against the town uh on our denial of the application clearly we this board is to uh represent uh the constituency to the best of our ability our residents and maintain the uh Integrity of our town and so right now we've got pretty clear indication that uh there's significant opposition to this sign which there has been from day one and the ca case being right now is if we don't settle okay we'll go to court and if we go to court and the applicant prevails then we don't have any concessions on the sign whatsoever is that my understanding that is correct so therefore there was some negotiation to have making it better right so right now this adjustment being made here suggests that that would be making it better for everybody okay uh and that's what uh we're asking or being asked to decide whether we approve that adjustment or not if we don't then we uh are saying that we're willing to take the consequences of going to court is that correct correct mhm good and if we go to court and moves yeah the developer can go back to the original plan which you hated more than this and do whatever he [Music] wants okay so I I would just reiterate what Dave said and sitting up here we are not a board that approved it you have to understand that we said no but we are being presented with the fact and if for me if I think in what we've heard that we are more likely to lose than win right and then it goes back to the height that no one liked or the lighting that no one liked it will be worse we might be making the Judgment that we'd rather take the small win than not have anything at all I agree and a protracted lawsuit and the expenses that come with that so that that's just where I'm coming from that Des I agree with my colleague and I'm in fav of [Music] this's down all the way at the end I agree with everything that Scott said I agree it's almost like we're being blackmailed you won't lose in court how do you know let's not get the back it comes down to a confence uh comes down to a freedom of speech question there have already been indications I'm just going to remind the public that you cannot shout out like this the court has indicated that it's in favor of the freedom of spech speech issues so I think having one panel that's going to be St static and only the other panel that's going to be flashing is going to be a big Improvement at least to the moving public on Route 80 uh and they've agreed to cup the lighting so that the neighbors will not be affected by it I think that's the best we can do and like I said I think we blackmailed into accepting this aren't we here to listen to our residents um I agree with j this board agrees that this is not an appropriate location for this sign we made that clear that this was not an appropriate application we voted it down if we felt based on the information that we received that was fully vetted by not only our attorney but by the the township attorney on conference call with us several multiple occasions if we felt that we had a reasonable chance at prevailing with the lawsuit I don't think we would accept any kind of settlement we can vote no on the settlement and let it play out but you need to understand that it could be worse and you say only 5 feet lower that's a legitimate 5T that 5T made a difference I would focus and as the board to focus Less on the number five than the impact that that five foot that 5T had in good conscience I could not send this back to the judge let it go to trial and feel good about the potential outcome I hate the fact that this is there I hate it it's ridiculous in my opinion so much so that I've have as the board knows I've had conversations with the council president about tightening up our ordinance to not let this happen to any other neighborhood that's out of our control in the Here and Now doesn't matter what the future F ordinance might read or how the future ordinance might read this is the ordinance now our backs are against the wall there is a metaphorical gun to our head and if you really want us to vote no we can but then I don't want to ever hear about it again okay anything else all right motion come out motion second all right time to time to vote so you're voting to accept the terms of the settlement I vote to accept hold on we got we have an order here I was looking at Nora okay good burtz reluctantly yes Rani no no jitz reluctantly yes paty yes Quinn yes ready no yes willings no Kaplan um I hate that this is my last vote uh ever on the zoning board but uh I do believe it's in the Township's best interest uh to accept what we have so I will reluctantly and disappointingly vote Yes even though it already passed before my vote I think it did oh really oh that makes me feel worse many all right so the result is the settlement is accepted and 52 I think right 5 yeah we needed unfortunate we needed four we're good no no we're good we needed four um I do want to uh now that this application is over I do want to thank the board for about 10 amazing years um we make very tough decisions the public does always enjoy appreciate understand our decisions but I know that everyone who has served on this board has done so with the right interest in mind despite what uh some parfan websites on Facebook say but uh it's been a pleasure thank you for everything and I wish the board the best keep doing what you do motion to close close close do we have good luck where's my C well no cake but do we need to nominate before we next meeting meeting next meeting okay