have you know I didn't make it up like people been talking about it for 40 years he's like I'm going to watch two two tonight like those youres on not mine I have my spare I have my spare pair if you need them but there was cut out for a window on that's what I have because you know that's I mean it would be dumb to Del I wanted to have the ability to and you can I mean I like the coloring shows that I mean always having to do stuff to they have all that nice cedar shingle siding if you knew where I lived like I have a small sand my house and everybody has a that's and if I put like aot metal fence it would look so weird like it would match you know it's like all like this and then Tom John just let you know the mics are going and liveing right we're talking about our houses that's good what street I'm surprised they even had that okay I think I got you I got you it's the same could everybody please turn off their cell phon unless you got a really good ring I have good for 15 minutes and then I back off are hi Joe hi Ben I need I need theic hold on oh I'm sorry bang that like to open the regular meeting for the point pleas Board of adjustment for July 18th 2024 get a reading of the open public meetings act please adquate notice of time of this meeting has been given under the provisions of the open public meetings act and was posted sent to the official officially designated newspapers and compliance with the roll call please secretary Davis here Mr Dixon Mr here chairman stres here Mr Kelly Mr Neil Mr de and Mr I have three resolutions be it resolved by the board of adjustments that hereby memorializes the action of approving application 20245 of Carol G 319 Trenton Avenue your initials are listed if you may vote second Mr Kelly Mr Dixon secretary Davis and chairman stres yes be it resolved by the board of adjustment that he by memorializes the action about denying application 20246 of Jims 2 Homestead motion Mr Kelly secretary Davis Mr Dixon yes chairman stres resol by the board of adustment that hereby moralizes the action of vot approving application 20247 of Carissa M for Edward Gano and 115 Atlantic Avenue with conditions so move second Mr Kelly secretary Davis yes and chairman stres yes and I'm going to call the agenda Jason White represented by Mr jaon and councilwoman Crawley represented byor okay thank you okay come on chairman M for record John on beh of Jason and his mother Gail White we're here for a certificate performing use I've uh taken the Liberty uh of handing out a PowerPoint presentation consisting of um 16 pages and then I added out 15 pages and I added outed out page to join supplement a so what we have a property on at 119 Atlantic Avenue and as you can tell from the aerial photograph that's on the first page we have the front house and then there's another house in the back the front house actually has a separate apartment uh that's part of it this is been going on we believe since the 20s and we think we have proof to show that to the board uh the the units are serviced by individual electric meters individual gas meters uh they have always had separate sewer service or they're built for that separately by the burrow uh the tax card shows that this property was built I think in 1910 um and uh so what what our argument is and and and Jason has lived there his entire life his mother purchased the house uh to raise her family there in 1964 and this uh apartment on the house in the back has been there since uh she moved in in 1964 and as well the uh front portion is a little apartment within the main house they've also rented consistently since uh 1964 um Jason has provided with the application a number of permits applications Etc that over the years that he has since uh approximately the 200s because it doesn't have records from back before that and this is in an instance where they got in trouble and were caught Jason just wanted to come in and do the right thing and get this uh legitimatized through a ceric prior nonconforming use which is why we're here so we have the survey uh that shows the the one story frame Bungalow in the back that is a 1978 survey and then it shows the front house uh we also have a survey uh on page two which is a lot more recent uh that's 2013 what I've attached is the zoning ordinance or the pertinent parts U I have secure this from Miss and and your board secretary M Mills the 19 zoning ordinance is interesting in that it has zones a b and c zones A and C have a lot of criteria Zone B only has very a very narrow set of criteria and when you go to the zoning map you'll see we're we're right uh in in zone B so Zone B the only zoning criteria in 1922 was every building shall be constructed on a Brickstone cement or tile foundations 18 ft above the base of the sill and every such building shall be set back from the street in Conformity with the prevailing building line so that was really it you had to be in line with your neighbors you had to have a concrete foundation and you had to be 16 feet in the air and if you look at the historic photos uh from Point Pleasant Beach in that time there was a variety of Lage houses rentals hotels Etc throughout this this uh B area and um and we we think we have proofs to show that this house was built at that time uh so so what goes 19 19 40 That's when um the zoning regulations in the B Zone became more stringent and that regulation provided that non-conforming buildings could continue um on page six of our PowerPoint Jason has uh the tax the property tax card the bur of Point Pleasant Beach acknowledges that the house was built in 1910 uh that's not something that was prepared for zoning board application that is just the records as they appear in the burrow I have the aerial photos some more pictures of the house um this is a historic aerial photo from 1933 page 10 of the PowerPoint and you have to to to look at these photos uh closely but but we believe that this shows that that this house was here in 1933 as well as the Sears robu house uh that Jason's going to testify which is the uh the smaller house and these these photos it takes a little bit of getting used to to look at them you have to kind of interpret them we have a board radiologist who might be able to help us with this um but what we have are the Shadows um when you look at all the houses the taller houses with the peaks of the roofs picture was taken obviously ear when the sun was low and you see the houses and and then throw a shadow so the shadow tells you a lot about what's there as well as the actual image so right here we have Atlantic and uh Baltimore this is Jason's house you can see the Shadow The Shadow bigger because the front house is a lot taller the on story house in the back we can see it and it just throws you know a much smaller Shadow because the house is only a one-story house so that's right out of historic aerial photos we think that that nails that both of these structures were there in 1933 um here is a Google Earth you can see it's a similar configuration to this day we have the house in the front that's a much taller house and then the the much lower Gage in the um here's another different resolution of the same 1933 historic aial um it just is a little bit different resolution zoomed in a little there's the house there's the garage the Shadows Etc here are the um uh building plans uh after superstorm Sandy uh Jason got approval from the building department he'll testify to this to elevate the garage in place I'll call it theage the Sears Road House um he hasn't done it but he has the approvals and we have the plans uh prepared to allow that they also did various repairs over the years and and I took this offline Jason's going to testify that that house in the back is what they call a Sears robot kid house and uh the per this uh which I took right off of that the website they were prevalent from 1908 to 1942 um 1933 1910 we think right in that range the zoning ordinance changed in 1942 but we have a picture to show that it's there in 1933 so uh we respectfully submit that kind of everything fits together thank you for indulging that overview Mr chairman with your permission if I can have Mr White sworen and provide to our Jason you heard my overview everything basically uh on the on the right track there as far as being believe a good summation okay thank you um can you please just tell the board how long have have you been at this house how long has your family live there I know your mother's here to testify but tell us a little bit about your family history in 30 seconds or less with this house um my parents bought it with my mom's parents mid-60s I was born in 72 um I've trying to get out I've been uh many places but play Pleasant Beach is my home and I've come back and so 52 years I've we've been there the entire time can you tell the board what what how's the setup what's what's the house like what are the houses like it's a Dutch Colonial um we have a front porch and off of that porch we have uh a very large uh Dutch door and then adjacent to that there's an entrance to the apartment which is a studio apartment um and in the rear of the property um there is a three bedroom C um there it's an oversized lot because it's a lot and a half so we're 75 by 125 um I have decent yard area of stone and I also have a nice big red maple with a lawn I maintain a hedge on the perimeter of the property um so I try my best uh it's an older home since 1910 um we've been trying I call it the This Old House without This Old House budget because I've been constantly working on It's A Love Affair how that goes can you go up to the TV and show show the board where the two houses are I know this would be the driveway on Baltimore and this is an entrance um into the cottage into the bedroom living room uh kitchen is in the back and two bedrooms there and uh in this way is a back set of stairs uh a mudro off of that of the bathroom washroom kitchen dining room den living room front porch and then off of the living room it goes up to the second floor and then from the second floor there's also an attic space that goes up so it's listed as a two and a half story The Attic is and sheet rocked and this is in the back of the yard here's my hedge front porch you can see off the corner this is the area where the uh studio apartment is there's another door here um in the background here and that window is uh the kitchen dining room area of the cottage do you know what the cottage is have you understood what that type of house that is from experienced Builders over time and um going through the preparations of repairing and rebuilding um it came to my knowledge that a type of hom was uh like of a Sears kit house and so I researched the Sears kit and it seemed to fit true 2x4 where now three and half in is 2x4 so it seem to fit that criteria so your house has your family always rented uh or use the the three units over over time yes um both my parents were teachers we primary residents and go to our my dad's parents in their Farm in West Virginia um the back house we sometimes do seasonally sometimes with an annual we annual to have a neighbor instead of you know summer can be a handful um we had a mom and her son that was in the cottage for a number of years when she passed um he moved over to the apartment because it was less for him to take care of for to but he was with us want to say closer to 15 years has hows have the units always had separate utilities and please explain about the water electric and um gas and and and before we do that you see these pictures did you take these today I did they show the meters on the house correct so while you're explaining I'm going to uh yeah if we could have the photo marked as A3 the PowerPoint will be a two a A1 is the applicant application with the attachments so so we'll do uh the photographs of the meters A4 A5 A6 and A7 so Jason if you could proceed pictures that's take a look my parents were divorced in 83 it was 10 my mom's been handling own uh my dad apartment building in Bradley Beach so he was also interested in real estate that I PE an interest um I saw the potential for us this is a big property a single mom the income was important so I tried to help her out as much as possible um and so I noticed that I always was curious why we were charged more as a water bill they charge three units right go ahead and sometimes when you're doing seasonal you would have to pay your own utilties so paying the separate utilities each meter has its own separate number and therefore separate account um so it would be managed separately as gas accounts electric accounts and then the ility from municipality ised as as States have you ever had any trouble from the bur Point Pleasant Beach getting permits to rental cos that kind of thing have you always done that I've never had a problem so the um the uh the taxes show there three units the water sewer Etc have you over the years have you gotten any permits for improvements and have you had any trouble with that of course yes well I learned the hard way I got one time um I didn't realize I took out a permit but I had uh been working simultaneously on the main house and in the rear cage and uh Mr Gardner at the time explained that I would need separate permits to build to be any uh construction work um for either unit so all units would be separate and consequently um over time having the apartment done as well he requested that uh an architect do um a structural drawing as well stru for the main house the apartment as well as the re Cottage and that was all handed in to Mr gner there was no issue with there being separate households Etc Mr Jackson I just want to ask a question I don't know that it matters per se but you originally said that this was like a volunteer that he wanted to get things right and he just stated I finally have had difficulty with my CEOs so that this of what Mr loader explained as the town went through and did an audit of all these well he applied for a CO for the apartment and they said you have to do this first but it hasn't been rented there's been no F no so can you just explain all that well I so that's different than what how you stated it that he was just a good guy yeah yeah he is a good guy but he wasn't just coming here because he wanted to he was coming here because he couldn't get a see up I stand correctly yeah you caught me yeah yeah I usually to you please please continue it's not so much of AAR I don't remember please continue where did they lead off talking this year Brian Martin came in and said that if you wanted to get the CO for the rental correct I received the Grant from superstorm Sandy uh the rental repair program there was a couple different grants going on um I was trying to mitigate to the best of my ability financially it was burden um house raising again went with Mr aneno and got um paid all the required drawings soil samples um everything was set to go but we just didn't end up having enough funds to uh follow through with that but through the rental repair program um they required that you rent to vot a moderate income um at that time that was 2016 by the time I think I had it finished um and since then I've had the same tenant uh and I've never had any issue getting elae pillo would send out notices that your Co is up um I had sent in the money and now I guess it's online it was always a piece of paper where you would go to the office and fill out the paper and they give you the card but I guess the process changed a little bit I didn't know that I sent in my money and I guess I never got the physical card and I think I went to go collect the card and they said oh things have changed I said you took my money and they said yeah we take your money but you didn't get and how long that was um and you haven't rented it since same person yeah same person well I've never rent anything else the same person that's been there 2016 so thank you those are all the questions I have Mr so you know I think there's an establishment from the historical that the other building was there was that turned into something I haven't really figured that out yet how was the secondary studio apartment established in the main house and when it's part of the house that's been there since 1964 so was buils in that way that's what we believe I mean you know what you need to do here right what what did we determine the year is 71 74 72 we have early 70s we should know that well 72 so if we use 72 is a date they've owned it since 64 and that's been there since right and you know one of the strongest ways to determine that is if there was a person who yeah so okay anyone on the board also have any other questions the studio apartment is top floor bottom floor first floor first floor thank youj to the porch okay so I have some questions Mr chairman sure Mr loader go so are all three units occupied now do you have Co do you have cosos for are you planning on getting cosos for the three units yes sir because I see I see the the small house in the back is on John's PowerPoint it's listed at 98 Baltimore Avenue you can see it right here in the picture so what's can you tell me a little bit about that why is it listed at 98 Baltimore P I wish it had it own address of the power point up here in the left hand corner Mr I can address that I think that's from Google Earth okay assigning that the house itself is when you go by it's listed wither um so so did you did you encounter serious damage on the whole property from Sandy flooding in the small house and in the water causes major damage and they said category five and who knew what in the we had a pile high like everybody else we your house is currently not feema compliant uh no sir not above the BF based what no but I have the approved plans to make it so and that is my intention once I can so my if I can Mr chair my concern is if you improve the property if it goes increases more than 51% by the improvements in a small house then it executes a whole bunch of other things to make the property payment compliant as relates other things you know about that yes sir okay so you're going to raise the main house and the garage as well I would I would like nothing more than to do both of those but um the rear housee is more important since it's more susceptible okay and it would also add parking if I was able to create the garage they go back and forth with the Bas PL elevation apparently I think they dropped it a fo raing it up 2T so I'm sort of in the middle of whether that would be approved as is currently or I would have to ask permission for that extra foot to accomodate the Gar so Mr Jackson what would be the overall coverage on the property you got a 100 by what said 110 by 75 if you include the the small house with the main house that won't that'll by 125 9 thank you not to raise the main house it's to raise the uh SE robot house right yes anyone else on the board anyone in the audience have any questions Mr way Mr Jackson go ahead please come this is time just to ask questions and then if you have something you want to State that'll be later so if you have a question state your name you don't have to getor in for this one the questions are them I don't know the answer to that I mean this is except separate from the other one it'sing house and then main house has it so I don't know the applicability of that type of Regulation I ask question I have2 years experience can answer May address pain issue least' for lead paint and pass all yeah we don't to our never required that I can Che with building department Department yeah that really wouldn't be a zoning board issue as to whether or not it did or it didn't but if it does that would be code enforcement okay I think that's it go ahead Mr Jackson Mrs White please so you're just going to get sworn in Gil can you tell the board your familiarity with this house when did you first to know this 1964 we uh bought with my parents actually and um my um husband and I in from and you're familiar with it since 64 the configuration of the house is it the same as it's always been yes always been the same you always had the apartment in the front always did in the main house always had that Cottage in the back in fact when we moved in there was a woman on the um actually um any of you are familiar with Connie Moss who taught English in the the burrow her grandmother lived in there and she was in there for maybe a year before they she had to go to a nursing home so that was our first experience rental so you've used it uh have you used it consistently for rental over the years never no it's so Mr shes I think that answers your question we also have um y sister if you want to hear from two people anyone on the board have any questions anyone in the audience have any questions Mrs White no you ready to wrap it up I'm ready to wrap it up go ahead well let me to see do anybody have any comments that they want to make on this case no so if the magic know we think we have strong proofs that it's been there since the 20s um and if your magic date is in the 70s we have direct testimony from the owner that is configured like it was since 1964 it's been used in a similar and we respectfully request that the board uh Grant a certificate of Prior nonconformity so that it's official thank you Dan anything that you would like to say add do no very similar to many that we have had before us I think the board is well guided on the preexisting forming certificate status get a motion to close for deliberations please make a motion to close second all in favor Mr Davis okay um yeah this is one more in the long list I guess that we're going to be seeing on this sort of thing it appears from the testimony the documentation this has been an existing since at least 1964 um so we don't we don't see a lot of change we have a lot of stability to Mr Lo's point about raising the house and % value that's uh I guess that's something that gets addressed beyond our board that I don't see reason gr Mr Dixon okay U quite obvious it's uh the cottage in the back has been there this type style of that building is very old it's obviously been different some time uh the proofs that were submitted by the uh applicant are pretty extensive water bills different uh it's just not a steady number that fluctuates up and down so that shows that water is being used in there so most likely you had a tenant in there so it has been occupied for a steady time not just use once in a while so overall I mean through the testimony and what you presented here it's pretty obvious this place has been like this for quite i m m um yeah this I don't have too much to add to what these two said it's a pretty straightforward case um and you've submitted reams of evidence supporting your case so um just to keep it brief I would be in favor Mr Kelly yeah I familiar with this property for many many years and quite frankly I'm surprised to see you here Welles almost Landmark here Town your husband teaching schools and I really quite surprised but I think you're doing the right thing to get it straightened out and this way we'll have it all for the future Mr Neil I have further to add thank you for your testimony Mr loader I have nothing to add Mr chairman neither get a motion to close ation get a motion for approval Elena secretary Davis Kelly yes Mr yes appliation approv thank you very much you're out of here early you guys can come on up next case only two tonight bye want these back pictures Mr Dix John can I have phot back they get in theer thank you floor is yours sir my my name is Bill robon attorne firan J here tonight of as noted in the agenda this application seeking related the building coverage coverage however if you will indulge me for a few minutes there's a little bit of a history to the property and I think it's important to give some context to that chronology and that history can I can I interrupt you for just one second yeah Mr chairman I need to recuse myself from this case sure Mr loader theow has 2008 prior to that the property was owned by her parents L Andia gcia Mr Mrs Garcia bought the property in 1995 and M Crowley has been living there since 1998 Mr Garcia passed away in 1999 and shortly after that 's grandparents moved in to the uh in order to accommodate the grandparents and their age and some of their uh age related issues an application was made by missar Garcia in 2002 to add a an addition to the re of the property the application was heard by this board by board adjustment in December 2002 and was memorialized January 2003 the board approved a 164 foot addition to the rear of the at and which resulted in a total footprint of the House of 28.2 feet by 40t plus the 16 so 44 but two of it two was the net footprint was 26 I'm Sorry 42.2 by 40688 square foot building and that is also reflected in the board's resolution granted a variance to reflect that addition they refer to it as 33% building coverage variants doing the math however there were no I don't believe an engineer in the application from doing the math the coverage comes out to just under 3% of coverage and you'll see that in the resolution itself I believe that was submitted as part of the application but I have copies at the time of the application in 2002 there were existing improvements that were already there front driveway two concrete walk cway along side of the house there was a concrete patio there was in the rear of the house there was a shed in back corner of the house and there was a 6 in High by about six in wide delting the garden shows as a wall on the on a survey but delineates a the back so all those improvements were already there at the time the application was made once the approval was granted Mrs Garcia hired contractor to impr contractor was Joseph Pinsky Pinsky is here tonight and he was involved in the comption from to end of the project issu of the certificate of he also was involved in Co all commun between building department zoning office officials construction through that during the construction there came a point in time where Mr kinsky approached the zoning officer about the existing concrete patio and the rep Pao with Pao as you'll hear later tonight Mr Pinsky was advised that no permit was necessary it was replacing the existing and paperwork that was necessary the paper patio was installed it was inspected all the construction was inspected periodically during the process the patio is 13 by 4 was in place and completed at the time the certificate of occupancy was issued in February of 200 since that time those improvements all of those improvements remain in place the only modification addition to those improvements involve there's a small area about 10 by4 maybe 40 sare feet of additional paper that was crowy put in herself to stabilize the area outside the shed because of her mother's age and the uneven ground in the area that sh and that 40 or so s Fe additional paper was after the fact and it's there now add that in about just before 2020 there was a wooden nonpermanent ccoo that was installed on top of it was put on top of the existing Pap it's 12 by1 and it's replaced various attempts to provide shade in the back including an awning cbles with umbrellas that were being torn up by the wind and thrown around and this is a little bit heavier but it's not it's not a permanent structure it it does not impede any water drainage into the system it sits right on top of the the paper Pao and the only other item that was add was a plug foot non perent plugin play Hot Tub that sits on a wooden platform and it's located over top of the existing law it's removable but that was added to the so that's the sum and substance of what exists in the backyard and what took place in 2022 is that was zoning officer that been a complaint from a resident questioning whether appropriate permits were issued for various improvements toer including the patio Theo and on the basis of those complaints violations issued this Crow was required to seek approval the relief that's requested just this why I want to give it a little bit of History relief that's being requested it's a little bit I just want to be clear there's no question there's any question that the board of adjustment approv the full building coverage for the structure the home dwelling that exist there was the rear patio cers were completed installed inspected and approved at the time of the issu of the certificate in 2004 and you will have direct testimony from the contract that not only installed it but met with own officered to repl the exis so we're seeking confirmation that that Pao is included and was approved in terms of the existing lot coverage there is an existing shed that's been there it sits on blocks and it's been there for over 20 years it was there at the time prior to the of adjustments that remov same sh have records of whether a permit was issued or obtained we don't have that if it wasn't the applic variant approval for additional building coverage of 96 sare feet to allow the shed to where it's last some years and not foundation on used to a tiny garage lawn mow Beach other things that would be there's no space for other than that and the other two items have to do with the and the plug as far as the it's more from me conclusion tesy it's a nonpermanent structure sitting on top of the Pao that was by the it's in effect nothing more than a tall table that replaced a structure you know umbrellas and tables that were there that were getting from there's no impact onious coverage and and the plugin PL same thing as 48 foot temporary on a wooden platform over grass that doesn't have any impact on previous coverage water rins onto the grass and it's not even there as a per structure so again it will be our position we don't believe that those impact the impervious coverage and don't even require a coverage to the extent that they do it is so minimal that VAR to them to appropriate so that's that's the relief that's being requested with me tonight I have the home mrin contractor is also here also have with me Mr Jerry farell Who The Neighbor imediately Next the address property that would be most immediately aware those improvements rela construction sits higher immediately next to that if necessary Mr is also was neighbor many many testify that there was a preexisting patio property there are any questions before we start I don't know that there's necessarily question we're very familiar with gazebos they come all the time that's not that temporary it would take a couple of guys a number of hours to get that down and moved couldn't just say oh let's move the Gazebo to the other side of the yard it's not that temporary we understand exactly what it is and we know that it needed a permit to be done so you know those kind of things permit was a fight for the issue you'll have your chance to get sworn in talk calm down addressing him right now um so you know we're very familiar with what it is we have plans that show some differences to what you were stating that were submitted at the time of that application so we're going to have to get through some of those things that are we're here to clear it all up the purpose here is to tell you exactly what the history is and whatever whatever confusion exists and request whatever sure anyone else on the board have any questions before we notle on what the impervious coverage calculation was in at the time of the 2002 2003 approval I heard building coverage didn't didn't your yeah they didn't there there was nothing in the resolution that would specifically identifyed so I can only answer you by telling you what what's what was there at that time and that will be part of the testimony but give you some idea of what we believe existed the the house that was approved 168 tell you what I what I know information that we have and again this is the best information we have this prob did not own the house that was living there the application I don't believe there was Europe that presented the application so the information piecing together but what it appears to be from a survey in was that the house 1688 which is 3376 there was EX was in the re the property that was 96 Total Building coverage Exist by my calculation was7 at the what is the percentage we don't talk percentage for building lot coverage 3376 was the house that's what's included in the resolution percentage of the shed you're saying was there the shed was 96t which was additional 1.92% I might and so the total if 1784 is 1368 I'm sorry 3568 that was what was bu what I what I would consider I I think is defined as bu a lot coverage so that was on the ground in which that's going to be something we're going to have to resolve because that wasn't in the yeah and the percentage wasn't that at the time and the survey that was part of the application didn't show any of those things in terms of the addition perious coverage there's the at that time there was a driveway and front walk was there's a walkway a concrete walkway along side of the house and the appoximately the side5 on the there's there's aard the retaining the only way I can calculate that is if you look at it on survey about 35 ft this side of the house and across the rear the house it's 12T 6 wide I don't know how the engine calulate but it seems to it's about 6 so and then on top so that's what existed at that time there was a existing concrete patio that was removed and replaced with the paper patio was that in the exact same footprint as the paper patio the concrete the concrete patio was it looks from what I can see the survey that showed it it's maybe about 20 by 15t in that but uh at the time Mr P is here you can talk my understanding is at the time that culated at half of coverage and so the the total paper pattern that was put in was replaced it was 520 40 so I calculate that half of that goes to the calculation is 260 so by our calculation it's roughly you have anything there Joe or you just well Mr chairman I think this whole uh whole thing Board needs to consider is a z temporary B uh process on the papers being ass prior to the September 15 2020 ordin and whether the shed existed at the time that's not on the survey of the application I can't answer why um the prior approval was 33 we roughly 34 so is that it from the board right now so why don't you get to testimony the owner of Curr the owner1 since 2008 how long since 1998 and did you purchase the property from your mother yes that's Amilia Garcia yes she here and that you purchased it in 200 um and how long had your parents your mom your parents own was our family home9 home9 father bought as our summer home so um in 95 they bought it that way8 at that time was my father mother and short after M father and after your father passed away did anybody else move into the house yes my grandparents who were in their 80s at the time and devastated when my father so they came to live with my mother and myself and when your grandparents moved in I assume the living accomodations were yes and in 2002 about 2002 come a time when an application approval for an addition to the house yes my grandparents had Walkers hospital beds so they describe the addition requested from theard of we like a one level for them to have bathroom bedroom and a living space for themselves and to be not having to go up any stairs and so that's we see a uh two with a bath in a living room area and can you describe the dimensions of of the addition that that was being s we requested I believe a 19 by4 addition and we and that was uh that approval that was memorialized in a resolution that was passed by Board of adjustment yes and that that resolution was adopted in January we have it at the and so you were living there in2 so you're familiar with the improvements that existed on the property at that time yes and was there was there in 2002 was deck at the located anywhere theer was aete Pao in addition to the concrete Pao I'm sorry I said yes was a we that's notrs and obvious bottom but itn't that that shed structure that was there prior to been there as long as you live the you mentioned patio there was a concrete patio exactly was conrete Pao right of half backo and out it's on the one survey after they updated the survey after I needed for my addition in addition to that was there driveway the front of the house yes and it's the same driveway FR walk ex now and there's conrete walkway or pathway along the side of the house to get to re the house right yeah and that's on each side of the house the north and south side of house the right the main entrance to the left that's my yard to yourled aete identified as a as a wall but can you describe from Bo what that actually isimet of the yard so it's almost like a scallop little conrete thing that was built to have the flowered in there right now and it's that that concrete flower bed retainer sticks up out of the ground about six in so F the approval from the order of adjustment or the addition hire a contractor to the construction work yes we did and you the name of the contract and Mr Kinski he's identified on the application for the depart yes doents application for certificate 20330 have you seen that document before yes and does identify that's that's the permit that's related to the 2002 addition that and does it identify the contractor for work being done Council if I could just interrupt you could we have that document marked as exhibit A3 right here to the court reporter show hold on doing that right can't do both are you ready please Contin Mr kinsky believe IND you were living there at the property during the entire period of construction during the construction was Mr kachinsky involved in coordinating communication with the building construction Department Zing office yes it was very helpful he's knowledgeable in that area and did he was he involved in the construction of that project from beginning to end yes uh the project was finished in early 2004 is that correct yes show youen this and that is copy of the certificate of occupancy for the addition work that was approved by the board of adjustment and that was dated February 12 2004 item on here it it identifies in here an agent or contractor as AR construction do you know know why that that is originally my mother had um had them out for an estimate and we thought we were going to go move ahead with them but I had gotten reviews that weren reliable so I decided to Builder which is one I changed over prior to anything started but had nothing to do with this project no Mr please car show you whatc it's of survey alter to dated April 16th 2003 have you seen that docum yes I and with regard to your original files and documents did you lose a lot those documents as result of I lost everything so that a lot of these documents uh this particular survey this is dated after the approval from theard of justice april3 and the by looking at that survey Does it show the driveway in front walkway in the condition that it currently exists yes Does it show the concrete walkway to side of the property yes show this shed in the rear of the property yes does it show what's identified as wall which is that bar flower bed that's also identified on the property yes and does it show a kind of a drawn a level existing Foundation 16 that would be the dimensions of the addition is that correct yes so as of April April 153 I'm sorry so this you're saying it identifies the concrete walk if you you see it's kind of doted I runs along the side of the house extending from I see on the South Side I don't know that on the North side there's one are you considering the thing that's the continuation of the wall as the walkway there on the north side theth that's the this is just just somec those are the conditions that existed and where the addition is is that the location where the the concrete patio was located yes so it's not shown because it's location where the addition is going to be constructed correct so on the survey we're referencing there's no indication of additional concrete papers anything no not yet not yet this was in April at the beginning of the construction as you hear from Mr kachinsky uh he he met with the zoning officer and the zoning board regarding the replacement of pavers the zoning officer and the zoning board I'm sorry the zoning officer the zoning officer was advised no permit approval was required because they were replacing the existing concrete PA found right but I'm not testifying Mr here you met with to ask about replacement he will testify you can ask him directly he was that it could be installed they inspected it and it was approved this is the to survey dated April 16 2003 yes correct just again curiously now I'm doing it are you done yet you said you were there at the time of that application right you were parted my mother presented it for my mother she doesn't speak English so at that time though the survey that was used at the application was not the one just reference it was that right I think they made me have rising at the time it was done right after like 2003 I was told I needed a revised up toate survey okay so this is the one that was part of the application and then you did a revise a couple of months later so I was requ he's talking about the curve cut it's very WI we don't have a double have very narrow I can't tell you how old Cur I never requested a curve 12 by8 Mr um I'm sorry sorry Mr I just want to make sure I'm clear in our page we have survey that's the same one it's the same it's a copy of the same one except this one has a Mark that shows what part of the building is addition is that correct that one shows there's more detail on so you're seeing a little dots extend on the side of the house to look like this okay I see I think I think may I don't know which which survey what date is but there was maybe I don't believe was attorney engineer that went with you when made the application 200 there was a there's an old to survey from 1990 was done by prior owners not Mr Mrs Garcia and I believe that best I looks to me like there were hand notations on that old survey showing theim location but the 90 surve even from when the Garcia's bought it was 12 years before the actual conditions are shown on the to survey location so just to uh summarize that the I believe in addition to the improvements that already existed during construction Mr kinsky spoke to the zoning office about replacing the existing concrete Pao yes and was the concrete patio ConEd as part of that was constructed as part it runs the whole width of the house 40t by 1 we did the whole WID because it was a 50% at the timeck coverage forers and my grandparents like I said with Walkers and whatnot there two glass lighing doors to lead out to the yard and we stopped half have the other glass door be able to so it was really an access buil for them to be comfortable so there is no step there was if I didn't have those behaviors there would stairs outside of those sliding glass doors and there were never stairs as part of any plan so they just would walk out with their Walker over to the you know the door and walk out and have somewhere to be outdoors and really was the main reason buil it to summarize when the project was completed and the certificate of occupancy was issued in February 2004 the property included the Welling that was 42.2 40 that was what was approved by yes uh the shed that was pre-existing it was on the property the application yeah it was never question on the shed at the time the patio the dimensions of which you indicated were 1 by the driveway in the front that were there at the time of the also never question and then what's the Southside walkway yes and whatever concrete whatever remains of it on the North side there's some portion of it is on the side as well yes and that Gard bed that runs that that runs along the rear of the property on each it runs from the rear of the house approximately 35t and AC yesim 12 total yes I was never again questioned on any of that at the time that I did the application for my mother I don't know that any of it was an issue then but obviously we are here today because clarify all of those are are there today did there come a point in time inations well after Sandy 2012 our home was affected because we live on a SL so we had water through the whole living space at that time my grandparents lived with us till they passed away so fast forward passing away I reside there with my mother and my family my husband and my daughter who were here today so we reside there and Sandy hits and we lose you know all our living space and at the time we decided that my mother should move down and we should move upstairs so she's getting older she's 82 today stairs would be less um accommodating for her so we chose to ask for a to get an addition for us to accommodate living upstairs since we're a bigger family now it would be the fourth generation we had my grandparents my parents myself and my children there now so we moved up and my mother moved down and we requested an addition um to accommodate us living upstairs so we added for a addition on top of what we have so box when you say addition there's no change in the footprint that was previously approved correct I was told that I so just but there was no expansion or addition to the pro just within this show youi as certific occupancy dated July 15 2014 yes what what is that that's the um the at Lev in July 2014 certificate occupancy was issued it was a yes we're up to A6 nobody speak anything else Mr yes Mr other than the improvements that have been discussed have been any other improvements to the property since 20 yes um in 2020 we attempted to put up a yard streo 12 by 12 tents that we kept purchasing from sear or Big Lots that would within one Windstorm get torn up and fly around we've had umbrellas fly into the lake since we don't have homes on the other side we have a lot of wind drifts and a lot of issues with wind in the backyard Furniture so we decided to do that I did though call the building department and ask if a permit was needed I was told till this day for Gaz so I assumed there was no permit and it's okay there's no permit because the ordinances don't allow it I was told so we have to get a variance for that but I wasn't told that when I called I was just told there is no permit for they can't come out and give you a permit or apply for it that's what I was told by the building department after the fact of the complaint prior to that I thought I was all in compliance because I called and I am putting up a 12 by 12 Costco yard gazebo made out of wood and a tin roof do I need they isos where was the Gazebo located the Gazebo is in the middle of my yard on top of the attached lead up to the home so it's about the middle home so it's 1et off of each side of the home in the center we needed shade we have no trees back there no kind of shade my mother and I to be out there the time it just was impossible we did SunSetter we tried pop up tents it just all got destroyed and this hasn't been destroyed in four years that we've had it there it's been great it is not concreted in it just strapped down so that move around in case we do get a blizzard but there is no concrete footings there's nothing permanent to it it took my father in-law and my husband four to five hours to put it together it was not an easy task but that is what is there now and it's located entirely on the pap patio yes any other improvements that no we did um entertain a Intex plug andplay hot tub that's an inflatable tub it was during Co times 20 into 21 um we my daughter and I and my husband who's got back issues we were like wouldn't it be great since really can't go anywhere the gyms are not really open and we didn't feel comfortable going we put one of those in the backyard on top of a wooden slap that that has no footings no anything and I was told if anything it's better for the drainage because it hits the the wood and it seeps down and it's not a direct impact so I didn't think that that was necessary and I was told there's no permits for Theos for hot tubs either unless it's a permanent hot tub this is not a permanent hot tub it's inflatable and it was done for um some relief during that time separate to that there also some some additional papers that were added around the shed Yes actually I'm trying to think back of when we did it the only thing I can do is I I did see an aerial of when the lake was dredged which was 2010 I remember my grandparents would go out to the um shed to get into the water Planters or whatever we stored in there it was always unsettling our yard is not level 100% it's just never been patted down or done specially professionally so they found more stability and my mother as well now at 82 to walk down into but they're just papers that were put down nothing's concreted obviously I guess we needed a permit I didn't think we did but it wasn't the other papers are done lifted up they level to the home it was a professionally job done we had permits done we had inspections I remember the inspectors coming he would line up everything everything was done properly the other ones are not done that way the other ones were just put down on the ground they're lower they're just done for accessibility to the shed to have more stability that was really what they were done for yes those um I did not have professionally done and I didn't realize that that was any kind of detriment when they were put in before this board the you are requesting just so to to clarify what board is that you're looking for approval confirming the uh building coverage for the addition that was approved and by the board of Jus 2003 and and signed off for the certificate of occupy 200 as the 13 by4 foot paper patio that was included in the construction of that inspected and all during the construction was completed prior to the issu of Co in 2004 and in addition to that you are looking for uh relief from impervious coverage to incorporate that 96 square foot shed located the rear of the property that was there at was there at the time of the approval but for whatever reason was not included in theol yes and then the other items looking for approval for 12 12o thats Pao correct and yes although now I was told by the building department that that's not a violation I'm not sure of that since I don't make up the violations but there was told now that temporary and it comes down that it wasn't an issue what's the square footage and percentage of the the latest papers that went in in front of the shed the ground levelers so it's the wi of um on the new survey that I was told I had to get I got a new survey just recently but it's the width of the shed so it's 12 by so it's 12 by fouret of lower like I said they're not built up or anything like the other are they're just down on the ground to give more stability 48t what percentage is that basically one 1% just just under one% okay I don't have any other questions for M yeah um so we're going to be very clear the first part of this just like I did in the last case is questions only and the questions have to pertain just to the testimony as it relates to impervious coverage and building coverage soon as you stray from that I remember when mayor past mayor KRA was here and his lawyer talked about how he grew up in Pointon Beach for it doesn't matter right I'm going to tell you one thing about me that's very clear no disrespect to you sack of potatoes sitting here it doesn't matter who the person is there's no emotion we're here strictly for zoning purposes soon as you stray from that I will stop you and when people wear ties and move to the front in the beginning that sometimes says to me you might be representing someone or no not okay I was just checking um so does anyone have any questions that they want to ask at this time come on up St your name address you don't have to be sworn in because you're not giving any testimony at this point sure we have a person who answers that then yeah it would make our life easier one less case on our docket but no the case law is actually exactly to the contrary that whether you're a mayor or a sitting council person uh you still have all the rights and responsibilities of a member of the town and you go before the board that has jurisdiction to hear your case uh what you might have heard where it's a little different is if there are criminal cases where that type of thing would be sent to a municipal court in a different town but for land use matters the case law in New Jersey is that uh whether it's a mayor or council person they go to the board within their municipality uh that is yeah well you can make comments but if you feel there's something that hasn't been mentioned is your time to ask yeah let let me let me just hit on the the procedure part so this is their case in Chief they put on each witness as each witness finishes if any member of the public has a question of that witness that just testified you have a chance to ask questions of that witness at that time now that's different than later when they're done it'll be open to the public so that if a member of the public like yourself has something you want to testify and tell the board that's your time to tell them whatever you want all right so the there's two separate parts to it very good thanks anyone else have any questions can I ask questions regarding or is it just just the witness um for the appc who actually prepared this application my lawyer just you and your lawyer I prepared the application with my lawyer um please clarify how the Gazebo is defined as portable you consider like anchor bolts and C Electric to that does that I said it's nonpermanent it's not anchored into concrete there is no concrete anchored into it there is no metal bolts into the conrete I'm answering and is there and is there C going to the Gaz no that's not the Gazebo doesn't need electrical wiring those are those those are the lights you fromaz those are lights you know those Fair lights that are put at night that's running from my home not objection but you're showing yeah witness photograph do I don't know what it is never seen it if you're going to have any of that the lawyers have to look at it first so that they can make sure no the picture you were showing hang on one second go ahead yeah pull the photo out with the lights that you were asking a question about Google and went through theine of2 hold on hold on hold on first of all let's get the photo that you was asking the questions about related to the light marked this exhibit 01 just so we have it for identification go here's here's what I want you to do thanks what's been marked is exhibit 01 where is it pleas yes stop talking no please mark that as exhibit 01 and then what were you g to say then after that and if you could please ask ask the witness if she recognizes that doc that what's in that photo here take take it so she can see it I just want to clear up what was testified to already but I I want to be clear I recognize it I don't know when this was taken or who took it outside my private home but yes that shows a plug that runs around the sliding glass door to put fairy lights which I'm sure everybody has in their yard so there little bulbs that I bought that you strap around since there is no lighting fixture in my gazebo because there is no power to the Gazebo therefore I actually have a battery operated little fan too in there we have that is lights that are connected and you could see it running past the perimeter of my door running up so there is no power where's the power don't don't argue with the questioner just answer the question that is the answer thank that this one you want to ask a question about if we can mark that as 02 to see all do want enter them are you GNA ask questions about the whole array yeah all right pass pass them to Mr Robertson first let do and then we'll mark them all is do enjoy hold on hold on hold on hold on we can't have commentary between you and your attorney let the questions be asked then answer so that it's taken on the record otherwise what's being said or not said won't be part of the transcript or the record here are all the photos and let her let her Mark take one second let her mark them all this way we can keep going j r yep I heard uh the applicant talk about this flower bed border I guess we can say um and I had the picture here and I don't understand what's this drainage com dra like what that what is that no there was no pool that would cause any drainage the only pools that I ever had in my yard were temporary intact pools when my children were small that drainage thing that's under that there you purchased the home so out of it I've never looked to see I don't think that we have no water issues in that area so I don't think so but that's ancient that's been there before my parents home so this was here this whole concrete fler bed was there that's not a flower bed you're asking me about well this is what I'm saying so this concrete no you're asking about the drainage right the whole thing and the you see in multiple times already about this concrete border flower bed and I'm saying that there's a stage here and I'm curious what that is for I said it's been there since we purchased the home I couldn't tell you I didn't put it in myself so I don't know what it there and the entire dra I don't go out there and look like I said there is no drainage issues in that area so I don't know if that was put in there ages ago to I don't you're asking me the drainage the I didn't we haven't built the concrete thing either there that's been that was there originally with the house when it wased as far as I could recall it's been there it was with the house when the house was purchased as far as I could recall it's been there um um I'm confused because I've lived here pretty much my whole life and I've never seen um a yard drainage hold on hold on hold on don't intersperse your testimony just just ask her the questions what is thisal in your backyard by what looks like this which photo are we looking at right there um [Music] 0909 I wouldn't even that was there is no pool there as you see so that must have been when we took down our inex pool because we actually have nice grass in my backyard so that must have been exactly at the time that the pool was removed the inex pool we had temporarily there so that's why you see that pump there but there's no permanent pump we don't we've never had a permanent pool and then what is this metal it's been there forever I don't know what that is it's nothing new nothing I improved on been there for no new improvements in my home and there's no year on that picture I don't even know when that was taken from Google these are from Google Earth i' like to confirm that I don't believe hold on she could show the photos she if the witness can identify them and testify about them they can if if and when she testifies later she'll be cross-examined on that well the technical Rules of Evidence don't apply before the zoning board she can show the witness the the photos if the witness doesn't doesn't recognize them or doesn't know the answer that's F pre concrete uh patio please explain when the new papers were installed uh and then the secondary questioners were put in with the addition it was one project one completion the ones that I stated that I put in unprofessionally to stabilize step down into the shed were maybe done in 2010 not quite sure so the SM portion off the rear of the house described as a preexisting was in the area where single story Edition was built off the house were installed after and to the rear of the addition survey data may can I see you're talking you're reading something that's what well is there a wait wait wait is is there hold on hold on is there a question get to the question so the original patio 20 May of 2003 does not match what you were saying that you had here no it's never changed it's one patio put on in 2003 and it's the same that's there today 21 years later just to get only you and your lawyer I responded who worked on my application okay very good anyone else have any questions okay ma'am my question am 16 16 by 40 was the addition that was approved in 2002 2003 correct' you're asking the question to her not us yes that's what we used as so there was no add I didn't know were questioning there no I'm just repeating heard the addition did not include a kitchen that's what I'm here to memorialize is my addition and my Pap is the home the home's of one family but it does not have one kitchen and never had one kitchen has two correct there's only two levels way I'm wondering I'm listening and you're starting to move away from what we're here for well in 2012 involved with thiser in terms of funds not in this case tonight no I mean Fe FEA funding wouldn't be part of the board's consideration right as to whether a variance is appropriate for building coverage impervious coverage those types of things it's not it's really not relevant to the consideration of the board for variance purposes I heard well well let the witness clarify because I didn't hear the testimony that way so how how many levels are of living space are there in the house there's two levels and a habitable top that's not used as a level are one family home we all live in it reside in it there's no rentals it's a one family home all family homes now are when I had to reside upstairs instead of downstairs the pitch of the group had to be made higher because the back of my house on the addition is a step up because that's how it had to be done there is no way of making it flat so the top had to be stepped up and I would have had a ceiling a roof that would have pitched out the the front so they had to pitch it higher so there's an upstairs attic that is habitable now it is still a one single family all permitted Co says the fixture of the roofing everything yes everything was done with two welcome oh you sprinted out quick question what is the rule or regulation on impious coverage and what is the exception being requested I've heard 4000 numbers here and maybe they're all clear to everyone up there who's used to this but I'm not so my simple question is what is the what does the law allow and what is the uh exception being requested I'm not sure that's an appropriate question I'll try to answer the best I can clarification on what variants you're asking for seems simple enough I didn't know the language thank you and it's a little bit complicated because there's a pre-existing when these were put in that they're claiming papers only counted at 50% today in the town they count at 100% typically we grandfather people in who had them in when they were 50% so that calculation is at about 56% right now and 50 is what's allowed building coverage is 30% Board of adjustment resolution granted 33 but if you do the maap it's actually close to 34 so that's been approved and there's so with the additional shed that should have been included at that time takes it to about 35% so it's slightly over the% building but just under and and and with the Gazebo it's I believe 39.1 two is what you're asking for right I don't know that the Gaz part coverage I think that's more question coverage 12 by 12 I hear what the board is saying about cover as far as consider it because he part of building coverage right correct right I'm looking at the engineers report it's maximum per building coverage is 30% whereas 39.1 12% exists including the Gazebo and that would include the shed as well I assumed it was being as part supposed to build because it's temporary strcture well I guess we could argue that our grandfathering those papers that are under the Gazebo and 50% shouldn't be considered 50% because they're under a gazebo but it's building covers is so are you clear yeah there's a 50 lot of 50% it's as simple as this this is this is like really about impervious coverage and building coverage this case and it's 50% is allowed on impervious okay they're at 56 okay and they 30% on building coverage they are at 35 and a half and then with the Gazebo it goes up to 39 okay that's very simple thank you very much for the answer thanks yeah 35 includes just the and uh anyone else have any questions witness yes for a testim thank you for coming tonight first question is constru as part of your duties responsibilities involved build ciliar with zoning and per approval process in 2003 did also construction you involv in3 you have occasion to be involved in contract to do certain construction work at 1401 St Louis that was involved you have Dimensions that were testified refresh your recollectionist does that sound correct in terms of recollection of the project were you involved in the from beginning you involv communting and coordinating certific Pro did there come a point in time project took you know they part of the year 20233 is that right and would be fair to say that you were very familiar at that time and when the project started testim ofr patio of house you have recrete patio yes there come a point time during your work at that property where you approach the zoning officer in Pleasant Beach with regard to rep of that Pao my was that sir don't be to speak up a little bit torture Mr Kelly trying to hear you personally go to town and meet with the zoning ability Department with regard yes I do do you remember specifically meeting with the zoning officer at that time and the purpose what was the purpose of your meeting Z offic and can you tell the uh your recollection in terms of uh the the purpose and nature of the discussion and the results of the discussion from what I remember while AG you know we discussed exactly what would be allowed I have question those are theyed set of that you put in a long believe it's raised up so just move the transition down probably minimal based upon your meetings with the Z officer at time was it your understanding that patio would Beed to be insted and based upon your meetings and communication with those offices did you construct theer Pao yesion 4T thater Pao does that ACC your right so so we're stacking up dirt there right obviously because there was no grading in drainage with this to of that you know especially mically you know new ordinance requires you to have a substrate of gravel I don't believe that this was constructed to comply with the with the 50% Ru shall L of stone underneath to allow storm will repol from the ordinance 9520 I mean there may have been with the addition or whatever but it could have also been a lot different in2 it is today INSP building zon departmento it it was inst prior to the issu of the C and they were aware that it was being constructed was there ever indication that it was not or instructed was it specifically authed by Z officer building department you indicated that you were on the property on a relatively frequent basis during that year do you have any recollection do you recall existence ofri I don't have any questions anyone on board have any questions to the Builder yes please I'm trying to get a little I'm trying to get a little bit of clarification here I'm I'm getting confused I thought the the previous testimony was that the paper patio replaced an existing concrete patio in that location is that correct no that is not correct the concrete the concrete patio was taken out for the extension of the house house went where that was and then in their mind the 50% pavers replaced approximately the same amount of square footage okay to to say that the new paper width and depth equal what the old concrete did from its width in depth but the concrete was 100% the papers were 50% got it I I misunderstood from the preious test thank you anyone else on the board any yeah well look at the resolution of back then it's a lot different than our resolutions today and I missed that meeting in how dare how dare you uh I have a couple of questions just to clarify a couple things uh the driveway and walkway at the front of the home uh did you uh prepare that build that construct that that was there and uh having been on site uh could you tell was it brand new or had it been there no and same question related to the Planters walls uh brand new or had they been there and same question as it relates to the shed brand new shed or a shed that had been there remember that's all anyone in the audience have any questions of the at the time contractor Builder no you have anyone else Mr Roberts yes short Jerry your immediately ad1 construction and the house is signicantly larger the living so would it be fair to say that you are the neighbor that has the most directly imped by of the improvements I commenting on you know all the calculations we've been talking about but those improvements anyone on the board any questions anyone in the audience have any questions my neighbor I have no no other Witnesses I have Mr winus here but unless there's any question regarding the existence of the preexistence of that concrete patio he was a neighbor for many many years right next door I there's some notation on one of the pictures about an outdoor coverage shower is that on the property M prob is there an outdoor coverage shower we have a changing room no he's good a changing room and we have a with water that we use if we rinse off from the beach surve it show it shows on the survey uh from leaper Land Group uh dated August 22nd 2023 if you look on the last last last page you're able to read that mine's a little bigger they give you the good so does that need to be calculated in building coverage it doesn't have it has like a little bamboo kind see but it's not enclosed it doesn't have enclosed with theze and what's gravel grass grass is it roofed no it's not complet it has like a little B to but it's not sides or it's not a cover if you look straight up do you see the sky yes you see the sky Surfers they come before they come in the house I make them off and when their come they change the yard that kind of set up was it a prefab structure like on dep with the four B walls yes I have a couple questions removed the hot tub or what we call what you call that play something yes Tu removed that okay um I have a question for Mr May being that the the uh gazebo is considered building coverage the the land under is that still considered does that get removed from the imper coverage yes it does you know what that what that percentage is well it would be roughly uh 2% okay so you got 2% there and you have um hold on a second so we're at 37.2 we moved 2% because of that now we're down to oh that we Building C 56 down to 54 if the fav under the gazebo okay6 54 now being that you got rid of the hot tub that platform that you have there that size is what what's the size of that that wasn't count that wasn't counted as impervious coverage okay and that doesn't count as building coverage no it's just it's basically a platform platform all right so I have are you done yeah done I know if I should it's kind of uh a negotiative spirit should I wait till the there's comments yeah I would wait till comment because it might change your ideas sure um everybody's good with their questions so now is the time where you'll get sworn in and you can say basically as it relates to this case anything you want the case and tell us how you feel and what your stance may be so does anybody want to do that does anybody want to make a comment on the case Hi man you're gonna get sworn in on this one this is testimony it's actually a written statement that's right to read you can read it well it's not of others and it's your opinion and it's from you that's fine you can get hi I'm States neighbors no that's what you can't do you can't speak on behalf of others you can read your own personal statement but this is this is for you and you alone just it's from others this is from of us that's okay than all right I had sent this morning a letter to Cameron NS ading our feelings on this issue we have been Neighbors in for over 25 years and we just wanted the board to be aware of this but I was advised that we could not do that until the attorney was advised so I would like this letter you you could share it with him but if it's your thoughts and your testimony about how you feel about it just go ahead and and read it right into the record as your testimony okay okay this is only with respect to yeah correct right yeah whe whether or not any neighbors agree or not we we don't know nor will we assume that this this is this is your feelings on the application gotcha perfect thank you okay so I'm you know just want to say that a lot of myself and my husband have been concerned about coming up and speaking from retribution from the homeowner um we've been hle before in the past we believe because our properties are in the flood zone bordering properties 1401 St we regularly experienceing these bordering ourselves the homeowners um have had problems with runoff and lots of fling in our back the um we'd like to know if 401 St Louis has a dryw on their property we're also concerned that approvals from the board um after things have been done without permits begin to set a in this to that's not the interest of it is especially conning to me that the homeowner is a council member who knows the importance of filing for the necessary permits having insed and complying with the ordinances of this town it is our understanding at least mine and my husbands that the board of adjustments does play a crucial role in balancing property rights with zoning regulations ensuring fair and reasonable outcomes for all property owners and our community um so I just want to know I want to ask in closing that we ask you for serious consideration of the negative their home and this impervious coverage already has on property flooding we would ask that 1401 St Louis requ to bring their impervious coverage back to the ordinance level which will bring runoff Rel to the neighboring properties included and we believe some of the other violations are not under your jur but probably under the building department that's all I wanted to say thank you for your thank you ask correct and ex apologize I'm not familiar with where your home is except fromal view exactly your located and so you're not adj are you acoss the street so you're on the other of the do you have your house you have a shed your property yes you have concrete show you you able idy the houses in this phot if we could just before you start testifying about if we could just have it marked as exhibit a I think we're up to six was the co A7 just so we have it for identification and A7 is an aerial photo of the do property yes thank you you recognize you know what the impr coverage bu C conrete that I see on picture I mean that's you can't look at it I got it covered I was all over it thank you I know what I'm doing any other comments come on up this time you're going to be sworn in I don't I understand it was written or what you there so many that we we understand it so that helps you and um there's been plans and surveys and calculations that have been submitted to the board that are covering two things building coverage and impervious coverage and the board is weighing what those items are and how they affect zoning and making a judgment on whether we think they should or shouldn't fall off and I'll let Ben want to elaborate on any of that any I think you hit I think you hit that one right on the head chairman because I had to go a I have yeah half a foot maybe a so I had to get a for that but I by on and there's also an like that's there too so I never any about for that that was my question yeah I would say that I would say that when our war engineer went to the property the setback of that uh air conditioning unit must have been fine because it wasn't part of a violation or anything that's brought up to us so then we're good with it again we have testimony that's not a shower it's a changing that has an open ceiling so you know okay and again it's not anything that was written up in our engineering report when they went and did if I can clarify um go go ahead it's an elevated platform and I would have assumed that that was inspected by the building department for location and elevation so that was not looked at from office right okay platform the platform and and the structure specifically I was looking at the violation in the application thank you anyone else Irish I would like to anyone else no all right anyone else on the board have anything because I do you so um it's not unlike this board to you know have some give and take back and forth right I'm not here to deny applications necessarily without some opportunity of discussion so I'm going to be forthright this does not speak for the rest of the board but I'm going to give an opportunity we uh you used a term before Mr Roberts you said when you were talking about the building coverage at 35.6 you called it a little bit over that's not a little bit over a little bit over what was yeah resoltion the resolution so 3335 is considerable like we're strict with building coverage right so then the next part of the case to me becomes a forgiveness case on the Gazebo because the Gazebo was put up without a variance so what do a board member do when he has a that type of scenario right it's a forgiveness scenario I have to put myself in this my shoes of how would I have viewed that at the time that that Varan would have come before me and I no way would have gone from 35 to 39% 39% is just like it doesn't happen right the the denial we had on this tonight when we were reading you know resolutions on Homestead was for a building coverage that was too high so in my opinion I think you guys did a great job establishing that the shed was there I think you did a decent job of establishing that the papers were there you know was granted at that time I'm not looking to go back and punish somebody that the town approve something that was done you know it seems like most of those other things were established at that 56% the extra 1% of papers that was put in front of the shed again I don't think it's necessary so that would get us down to 55 there so that's just I'm sitting at the Forgiveness part of the Gazebo as part of building coverage I just never would give somebody a 35 to 39 a resolution that ended at 33 the resolution's a little crappy because it's missing you know where we were with impervious coverage and stuff and this day and age we would never not have all that stuff in there so I'm a little blind on some of that I'm running a little blind on even what the house at the time where the impervious coverage was so I'm just putting the offer out you know for councilwoman whatever to consider the removal of and I'll give you guys five to break when you need it but that again that's I'm talking from me I don't know if there's a straw pole needed or how other people feel but that's where I'm at that you know it's not flying at 39 I understand the comments and appreciate direct and the opp you you could roll your eyes you have five Amilia is it your birthday is it your birthday I could have sworn she said it was your birthday I actually for years love everybody beauti thank youy right now Excuse me yes I I I work in another town as well smaller town bigger problem yeah I from Spain have everybody's getting old except everybody everybody's old except except Str he's the only one have a very night [Music] need lady are the elb because you're not allow re think form it's my fault everything's my fault no want nothing to do I know what's happening how you do starting her here used be hey hey I remember when it was Glassboro I used to go visit I used to go visit going to reopen the meeting please quiet down roll call please secretary Davis Mr Mr Kelly Mr Roberts yes thank you for the opportunity the just just to clarify this disc we had which is a concern because there's no other mechanism shape this and so believe there may be a way to accommodate the question is I this is question like a it's it's an open roof is that constit coverage is that something would be it's probably not defined same as good Zeos aren't defined so it becomes something that may be questioned right there's no definition here's what I think here's what I think we don't want to do is get into designing the art for you and have back and forth like I presented something the board kind of supported it you got to let us how you what you want us to vote on right because you know we start getting into all kinds of scenarios it just becomes complicated you've heard the comments what do you want to come forward with and that's what the board will consider when we take a vote sadly I'm here after 21 years so I would like to ask if would be allow I so many shade andbody area the popup ones and the SunSetter have failed me I've tried over the last 20 years to try to not have to even pay the money I had to pay for this new um yry one so I we really do need shade my mother and I sit in the back all the time she's there with her friends doing rosaries we have no shade because the umbrellas fly they go into the lake we've had it happen so I believe that I was wrong to put those papers by the shed for stability without any approval so I am saying if I remove that which wasn't approved the other stuff I believe in my heart and through testimony today was approved well obviously the gazebo's not because it requires a variance to have so this is the approval process right right and times and it happens often for when you sit up here 50 by 100 lots are just you start to do too much in them and people do too many things and sometimes on the small Lots we have to say no to because it just becomes too much and when you're asking for that size gazebo on a small lot it's adding 4% of already an incredibly High building coverage so I can't state it any other way more clearly from my perspective and again it's not you anyone else this could be any person who' be trying to come from 35% to 39% with something like this and I just would never it wouldn't happen so when you're seeing other gazebos it's because those gazebos didn't impact someone's building coverage to the extent yours is that's all Oh I thought that's why we are here when you do go above it you have to get the approval I see around town that sit next to the streets actually almost on the highway of 35 I'm assuming they got approval by the board and that's why they might have got approval for it being a gazebo which is undefined in our ordinance and which we have asked for I think we're on year three of asking for definition luckily now a council person's here that I could say gazebos and what's our other famous One Cabanas Cabanas Cabanas and kazos most often approved things because they fit into a property and but are totally undefined in our ordinances need definition it would be very helpful for us it would be a lot easier in this case if we had some definitions around a gazebo right now it's building coverage and that building coverage is going up towards 40% it just doesn't happen it's just odd that in a community like ours in a Beach Community where Theos are all over that they're not approved by ordinance and by per a and I as coun get to work on I couldn't I was told by our attorney that it could not be passed while I was sitting as Council so therefore in the future hopefully they address it properly but I also would like to State for the record that in the three years that I've been sitting here as Council woman I have not done one Improvement to my home so as a council woman I am really not it's all not relevant this is about build the coverage just wanted to make that coverage and for the record has established the things that you established and I acknowledged what I thought and I guess the rest of the board kind of feels you established your shed which needed testimony because it wasn't even on the survey that was submitted at the time of that hearing but you did the one that was revised was very close to that and it was with within the period that you built and it did get Town approvals again I'm not up here sitting here saying when the town approves I want to rip it away from somebody but nobody ever approved this gazebo nobody ever approved those two papers so to me that's my area to say I'll live with the rest but I'm personally it pushes the limit on a 50 by 100 so you live with what I was approved in 2003 but my request that I'm here before the board of the Gazebo and the um additional papers are not what I'm saying to you is if I had that case before me fresh and you were coming looking for those two things with what you already had in 2003 I would be saying no because that's the only thing I can do right now because it's a forgiveness case I have to put myself in my shoes the shoes of hearing it fresh and if I were to hear it fresh I wouldn't go from 35 to 39% we in case you don't follow along with us enough we're super strict on building coverage 35 is a lot I just won't have any shade in the back I just don't I tried everything possible I just I you know what I do every time I know it's going to get windy icrank my umbrellas and they come down like this and they don't blow away and I do it all the time I have seven of them in my backyard you know where the lake is though so we get the drafts of wind way worse than any other because we don't have homes in the front so therefore we can't sit in our backyard though that's a shame so I'm begging yeah understand what is this shed in comparon sizewise right it's 8 by 8 by 8 by and and the other one's 10 by 12o 12 by on top of the that I thought that's why I thinka more issues it's already on top of something that I okay I understand I don't know how my mother and I could enjoy our backyard at all without any shade you know um I'm a redhead who lives ocean front and on my upper deck I have to deal with an umbrella I just have to live with that so you guys might have to live with umbrellas we do and they fly into the lake I have and I get you know can you imagine the wind Ocean Front 100% yeah all right Roberts we can't anymore we got we got to understand what you're putting forward for the board and again so so just so I understand so because the ordinance doesn't allow for gaze the gazebo's not allowed either right but you may some people get approvals on gazebos we don't deny all gazebos your this is more about the building coverage the problem the main problem is is if your house was at the 30% instead of the 33 or 30 close to 34% and you ask for a G probably would have got it but being you're already at 34 and that knocks it up to 39 that's problem so what I'm going to do is I'm able to tarp shade a shade of tarp from one piece of wood to the other piece of wood to give me shap I could do that I just can't have a ro I don't know what you're do all right I understand so then I guess the gazebo's not well we haven't voted on anything yet what I'm asking you to do is modify what you're asking for and if you're willing to modify what you're asking for that may be more positive to how the overall outcome of the vot goes if you're going to just stick with what you that's your right to do and then who you who knows maybe you'll have it anyway I don't know no I'm I'm not scking I was begging for sh I don't understand I have to two minutes Qui yeah the last the last five minutes was eight minutes we get two minutes that two minutes yes go ahead please [Laughter] is look they're sending me videos of myy birthday oh I need oh there reopening the meeting secretary Davis here Mr mman Kelly here Mr Roberts back to you again yes thank you app I have spoken to this will modify to remove extra favors ask consider onity we just think it's a% differ board understands then you have anything you want to clarify on that no I got it 56% right where they're at the the impervious isn't changing from how they came in tonight the building is the imper is exactly what it was the building coverage is reduced by the Gazebo reduced in what they asked for from 39 down to around 3568 which is the home and the shed get a motion to do you summarize anything else you want to say with where we're at or you think we've said it all I I I had a ly do that to you I can only say that I appreciate all the courtesies in hearing that this complicated and I appreciate you understanding you know the sequence of events issue is requesting ex thank you get a motion to close for deliberations so move second all in favor D okay I'll try to be really really brief because it's it's getting pretty late um here's where things got really confusing for me in this case is that we have um an un undated survey that shows a small concrete patio off the north east corner of the house um and then we had another survey that doesn't show the shed or one doesn't show the shed one does show the shed and then we have things as they are um so we have a little bit usion I think between the testimony and and what the surveys are showing and a lot of saying well somebody told us and and so forth but ultimately um I think Mr May was correct what this case comes down to is a matter of impervious and building coverage and since the applicant is willing to remove the Gazebo I'm okay with the rest of it Dixon yeah I kind of uh feel the same way U there a lot of different numbers being thrown around to get confusing at times for people but um I understand the need for shade and there's other Alternatives you could do um I mean it was up to almost 39% the problem is like I stated was when the house was extended the addition it moved up to 4% which was you know 4% over what technically was allowed so that's what threw the whole thing I mean if the house was at 30 and she came in for gazebo might have been approved probably would have been approved but being that it pushed everything up to close to 39 it's quite a bit we don't normally get anywhere near that number one of people coming especially for building coverage um yeah it's a very confusing case um I agree you know the one thing is you're going for a c variants um for C1 you have to prove a hardship um and I don't particularly say hardship and for C2 um you know the criteria does it enhance the aesthetic of the property what has been done not really um and you're right across the lake of the lies so you know I'm kind of concerned about flooding so I want to hear what everyone else has to say but um I would I would kind of tend against this because of both the building and imp perious coverage Mr Kelly on originally a level and there are many like that in town just between Philadelphia there's one Philadelphia has several bevels all over this one is on 50 5000 lot this is not a big lot by comparison to 525 another 25t deep would make a big difference big difference 125 foot in most of this area of the town that I I don't see it I don't see it happening you have a lot of stuff you got a wer thing you got the in the backyard the backyard is small the backyard is small when we add another 25 to that and you're talking about most of the ranches the sper ranches not the sper splits sper ranches that were built in that area simar the ranch houses that look like they're in sideways on Washington Avenue third they're all done on5 LS in between up between Washington and Philadelphia there are two Ls there on that corner that are small the other ones are 12 125 it's you've got a lot of stuff there I'm sorry but I don't I can't see it secondly I think you have to live through two doors down coming down Lou Avenue in his canoe right through that right past your house down to the intersection in a canoe fouret of War to understand what that means down in that area it's got to have NE personally the gazebo thing I think that's technity it's building cover cover I again it's a technicality that pushes up building coverage which is a big thing for us by issue is more of you know exactly what has been me is I my issues 56% I think is much higher whether you have gazebo on that or not is because of technicality having to remove that I think is is I pref I appreciate the concession you made with regard to the Gazebo as far as the the papers iy Bas on the testimony that they've been for quite a while yeah I again I think I made it pretty clear that to Mr Kelly's point and to what Robbie what you're saying I think if someone was coming before me and they were asking for a forgiveness case on the pavers as well I wouldn't want to see the pavers I think there was some level of pretty solid establishment that those papers were put in at the time of that project the Builder testified to it the homeowner testified to it the town gave a CO to that effect so I'm understanding that they were granted at the time that the addition was put on I think to Mr Dixon's point the fact that the addition was a 34% addition Li some of what you could do in the future and part of that limitation is adding additional building coverage onto your lot and that's what this gazebo was about in this case so again I'm not trying to go backwards to 2004 in terms of what the town granted approved inspected seed all the things that you to and that I feel are legitimately supported by your Witnesses but what I'm unwilling to do is have the Forgiveness part of the case that's recent that says I put this thing in without a variance it counts building coverage we look at them all the time the building coverage gets driven up to 39% it's just not an acceptable thing and that comes down to just having too small of a lot to want to do you know Mr Kelly's calling it stuff I mean there is evidence pictures and aerial views that you got a lot of stuff hell I have a big yard and I got a lot of stuff right and one of the things that I have is one of those really nice arching umbrellas that you can put out and when you open that thing up it's freaking I think 12 foot diameter it covers my whole deck and we comfortably can sit under it and it's not going to blow anywhere especially when the wind comes if you crank it down and then you put the little thing around it you they throw it shut it doesn't blow away so alternatives to give you shade it's not unbelievable but the way you're not going to get shade is through some big that's a pretty substantial structure it's not like some little snap together deal from low you know or that's a that's a real structural element that I wish we still again for our 48th time say we need to put it in the letter and get def around gazebos and around Cabanas so we understand how to look at them better so um small lot a lot going on willing to go back to how it was back in the early 2000s but some of the recent things and I appreciate that you were willing to pull it and by doing that I'm able to look in favor the motion to close deliberations I'll make that then before we vote can you please uh recap only condition would be that the application is modified to uh remove the proposed or existing uh gazebo which would uh reduce the building coverage to approximately 3.68% pass all right uh can I get a motion for approval with the Gaze removed I'll make motion second Mr yes1 secetary no Mr Kelly Mr Kelly mril what you didn't do Mr Str I'm sorry I was yes four to three approved anything anybody wants to talk about motion to close all in favor