ready yes I am ready the following is the agenda for the regular burough council meeting of the burough con L mayor and Council Municipal Corporation in the county of theate the meeting will begin at 7:30 p.m. on May 8th 2024 in the Municipal Building 25 L Avenue P LS consistent with the open public meetings act the meeting will be open for public with comments and shall be in accordance with terms and conditions of the Burrow's municipal code and B please stand for a flag SL to the flag of the United States of America and to the repic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all please bless this Mar Council the delivery on the best of in conformance with the open public meeting Law Public Law 1975 chapter 231 adequate notice of this meeting setting forth the time date place and purpose of this regular meeting through notice posted on the Bolton board in the municipal building mailed to all have requested and paid for same and published in Suburban Trends roll call please may herec herec here counc is excused excuse or AB ABS absent [Music] here here here with us evening is our attorney D and our administrator okay thank you I'd like to start with our certificate of appreciation but before I get invite him up and speak for the people that don't know how much time and energy Dave has put into this town in the last 15 or 20 years I involved 17 years here he is always put in pton Lakes first I can tell you that right off the top he works for a lot of different towns doing a lot of different work but at the end of the day he's a homegrown Pompton Lake guy who puts Pompton Lakes first and I can remember this I think it was one of the Hurricanes we had where a huge tree came down it was probably 3T across we called every place in the world to try to get it cut and removed it was so busy nobody could do it Dave says I think I can get that done my machine could barely make it work but he came and he got that tree out of the way and got those residents out of the street so you know those are of things that we're going to give him this appreciation for but it's not just about what's going on now it's it's about what's been going on for the last 20 years so with that Dave would you please step up bring anybody up if you want with [Music] you thank you very than here I'm going to read to you sorry do know about [Music] this a presentation to Dave C for maintaining and migrating the rivers and P the Lakes we extend our great gratitude and appreciation on behalf of our grateful Community for your dedication service to the burrow pumpt and lakes all those things I just talked about on top of doing all our River work okay cleaning our Rivers constantly we're surrounded by Three Rivers pulling that material out of the river almost on a weekly basis sometimes Dave has been doing that probably how long do since 2009 2009 I can tell you other towns have contacted me and said who are you using to do your River work we need to find somebody they can't find anybody to do the work they're hiring engineering firms to do it so we're lucky to have you I appreciate all the time thank you for the kind words a joint effort everybody pulled together and I was a guy that actually did the work but they did the leg work he to helped me Billy worked with me right from the very beginning so you have to have a support system in order to make this project work and they all came together and thank God the mayor stood behind us and kept this thing moving and it needs to continue if we're going to keep these Rivers clean and I think we've solved some of the FL this thank you come tomorrow and you can okay congratulations you con anybody who would like to leave before we start the rest of our meeting is more than welcome but you're more than welcome to stay and listen to okay with that we're going to have a presentation on our affordable housing how are you comfortable you want to do it from the podium or sitting yeah be fine good evening everyone uh my name is Darlene green I am a planner with poers and slowly work out if you're leaving guys thank you um I am a f with Colliers engineering and design my associate sorry uh my associate Kristen Russell asked me to come tonight because of the new legislation that has been recently adopted but before I talk about the legislation just a little bit of leave it open background Sor it's okay um so every town in the state has constitutional obligation to provide affordable housing that it is is not necessar to build it we have to provide a realistic opportunity to do so and so we are right now in what is known as the third round of affordable housing the first round started in the80s and the second round ran from 1983 to 1999 and then they changed the rounds to be 10year periods instead of six-year periods so the third round was supposed to start in 1999 and end in 2009 but COA the Council on affordable housing could not adopt rules that could pass Court scrutiny and so they tried three times and ultimately in 2015 there was a lawsuit that uh the Supreme Court of New Jersey issued a determination saying COA you've tried but you failed repeatedly and now we're 16 years into this round so we are stripping you of your power and we're returning the review and processing of affordable housing compliance back to the courts and they gave towns until July of 2015 to file a declaratory judgment action based on the paperwork I've received Pompton Lakes did that so did 300 other some towns in the state and they wound their way through the court process which was not pleasant um and some towns did better than other towns the process um had its pitfalls because not everyone was going in front of the same judge so Here In Paya County more than likely you appeared in front of Judge Brogan but if you were over in moris County we were actually visiting a judge in Sussex on top of that then you had different special special Masters think of them as sort of the judge's rightand person to help them understand all this and you had different special Masters depending on what vage you were in so the same Two Towns might actually have the same exact proposal one town in vage a might be told yep that's no problem that's fine but the town in vistage B would be told no you can't do that same proposal so this process has had its flaws be that as it may towns push through because that was the only option we were given but because of these issues the legislature has decided that we shouldn't repeat what we just did in this round and instead they have adopted a new 75 page legislation for the fourth round which will begin next year however there are um some deadlines that begin this year I prepared a memorandum which was distributed to your bro administrator it provides a summary of the major changes it certainly does not delineate all 75 pages of the change um the changes that are proposed you need to fall asleep one night start reading it you'll be out by Page 11 it's dense like a pound cake um so there there are some good things in this legislation and there are I'd say some not so good things in this legislation uh one of the positives is that they are increasing the senior tax so right now in this round you can only use 25% of your obligation towards senior units that's going to increase the 30% in the next round which is a positive so they've dissolved the Council on affordable housing and instead of returning towns to court for processing of their plans now they're creating a program um and no one knows yet who's going to be on the program if they're actually going to be full-time employees or if you can even call the program if you have a question but there's going to be a program to evaluate these plans and settle disputes on the obligations um they are changing the midpoint review process so in this round you had to submit a report which I found on your website that essentially said here's what our mechanisms are and here's where we're at in the status of implementing them it was a four page report you filed it with the court you filed it with fair share housing center you were done in this fourth round the midpoint will be in 2030 and it now is what I like to think of as a reopener the way the legislation reads is that if you have a site that's in your housing plan that does not have preliminary site plan approval by the time the midpoint review occurs anyone could come in and object to your planet and say that site's not realistic they've had five years to come in with a site plan approval and they haven't done it so instead I have a site over here and I think it's better than their site so that's why I'm calling it The reopener so in five years there's going to be a swool of activity for developers who didn't get into housing plans initially but are going to try and wiggle their way into them at the midpoint review another change is if you miss certain deadlines that are are outlined in this legislation it is an automatic loss of immunity that is not the way it works currently you cannot automatically lose immunity uh if someone feels that you are not acting in good faith currently and you should lose immunity they have to file a court proceeding you have to go in front of a judge both sides tell their story and the judge determines makes a determination on whether you lose immunity or not it's not instant so that is I think a detriment to towns because for example let's say there's a big snowstorm the night you're supposed to be and you can't muster a corn if you miss that deadline automatic loss of immunity for something that's out of your hands um uh another change which does not affect you I believe um is a a reference now to the highlands counil and based on what I saw on the highlands website today do not believe that you have opted in we not okay so then that will not impact you um a new caveat is is a requirement to have a consistency determination with the state plan the state plan is set dormant for over a decade but now all of a sudden the state planning um agency is feverishly working on a new state plan that's supposed to be issued in June and that's something that you should certainly keep your eyes on um there is mapping that's already available that you can review I can tell you in one of my towns it is extremely wrong and it's classified swamp land as developable land and because you you have a lot of streams and a lake it's worrisome that they could have Mis categorized some of your land as well um so that's an important item to keep uh a breast of because they're moving sort of on these parallel tracks at the same time um towns are still allowed to seek a vacant land adjustment so if you don't have sufficient vacant and developable land to meet your entire obligation you are allowed to seek a reduction of your obligation that's still in these rules but there's a new caveat if you seek a reduction and let's say your obligation is 100 you now have to come up with a plan to meet 25% of that reduced number so if you were able to reduce your number down to zero through a vacant land adjustment the rules now say well that's nice but you still owe us 25 affordable units so I think uh part of this is a recognition that a lot of towns went in under a vacant land adjustment rightfully so but of course there's a magic quota that they want produced and if everyone received a vacant land adjustment the state's not going to meet that quota um they are now crediting transitional housing which is never been done before things that would fall under this category include homeless shelters um um substance AB use Rehabilitation Facilities short-term facilities those kinds of items now would be credit worthy as long as they meet the micro requirements uh and another radical change is the bonus structure so in this round towns are eligible to receive a rental bonus credit so if you produce an affordable rental unit that was not restricted for seniors let's say you will receive a full bonus credit that bonus credit is now eliminated and it's been replaced with a host of other bonuses and when you read it it sounds like oh this is a good thing I would tell you it's not because the overwhelming majority of these bonuses are now half of a bonus not a whole bonus which means for some communities they're now going to actually have to build more aord housing units to generate the same number of overall credits um of course this 75 page rule book doesn't actually tell you everything you need to know to go from the start to the finish of affordable housing the rules say well you can still rely on the existing rules to the extent that they're not invalidated but at the end there's 24 references that don't tell you what they are that says oh but these things over here are repealed you have to go and figure out what they are so now folks who are going to be preparing plans are going to have to look at the prior round rules the third round rules the uhac rules and this 75 page document to try to figure out how to navigate this new process uh the last thing that I would note is that the length of deed restrictions have also been amended so right now today whether it's a sale affordable unit or a rental affordable unit they all have a 30-year deed restriction this new legislation modifies that and is now requiring rental affordables to have a 40-year de restriction so it's essentially showing the state's preference now towards sale as opposed to rental but sale has a whole host of other issues um that towns have to be mindful of um so on page two of the letter we've outlined the deadlines and one of them is coming up in 41 days and I have a calendar um that I keep reminding all of my towns about because I don't want someone calling me the day before and going oh darleene oh my gosh tomorrow's the deadline what do we do well it's too late um so the first deadline is June 18 and that's when every town with a trust fund which I'm assuming you have one because I read in your housing plan about payment and L so I'm assuming there's a trust fund somewhere here at Town Hall where all the affordable housing fees are deposited and by June 18th Town's have to provide a detailed accounting of all the nonresidential fees that have been deposited in that account and then on all the expenditure related to non-residential fees now I can tell you all the towns I represent when you write checks out of the trust fund you don't say oh well that check was because it was a non-residential fee and this check is because it was a residential fee no one keeps their books like that and we were never ever required to so to me that's a um just a fact that shows the author of this legislation or the authors of this legislation don't really know how trust funds work because that's not how you account for your your expenditures uh so that's the first deadline and then in September you have to report on the residential development fees coming in and going back out of your trust fund also on September 16th they want a voluminous amount of information on construction starts so those would be um sites that have commenced construction that have affordable housing units but don't yet have cosos and occupants they also want a mountain of information on existing units which I I think looking at your housing plan would not be too terribly difficult here compared to some other towns where there are over a thousand affordable units on the ground they want to know address block and lot tenure whether or not it's restricted to seniors bedroom distribution income distribution level the start and stop of expiration dates for deeds and I will tell you many times the Deeds don't actually tell you the exact start dates because it typically says upon occupancy so now you're digging back to records from the '90s or the 80s to try to figure out when were these units occupied that is going to be quite the task for towns to undertake and that's why part of the reason we wanted to issue this letter as soon as possible so towns wouldn't be running around at the 11th Hour the good news is these three initial deadlines are not what I call the shotgun deadlines that result in any loss of automatic immunity that comes later by October 20th DCA who was now tasked with coming up with the obligation is supposed to produce a report don't hold your breath on that so that report would tell you what your Rehabilitation obligation is as well as what your fourth round number is but be reminded so now you're going to have a four-part obligation a rehab obligation any prior round obligation that you haven't satisfied any third round obligation you haven't satisfied and now a fourth round obligation that you have to address if DCA does not publish the numbers by their deadline none of the other deadlines get pushed back there is nothing in this legislation that takes into account that DCA may not make their deadline which is extremely concerning as someone who 99% of my work is representing municipalities um but that's the way this legislation reads now why is all this important because on January 31st this entity is tasked with its first policy decision on that date every governing body is supposed to adopt a binding resolution outlining its Rehabilitation obligation and its fourth round obligation you can either accept the numbers that DCA issues assuming they issue them in time or you can have your own number but you can't just say well it's zero because they said so you have to have some legitimate rationale backing up why your number is different than dca's numbers now we don't know is DCA just going to publish a report that lists every Town's name and has their numbers or they going to provide the 40 plus step calculation that arrived at your number if we don't get the backup data it's going to be very difficult to dispute the DCA number so I expect there to be a flurry of activity when and if DCA issues their number the January 31st date is the first shotgun date so if a town misses that date you lose immunity so the day after that someone could file a builder remedy lawsuit to erase your zoning all they have to do uh or should say the status for a builder REM lawsuit is they either have to own the land or they can be a contract purchaser so that's a good caveat to remember is they don't have to actually own the land they just need to be a contract purchaser to Institute that bill of Revenue lawsuit um after the towns file their binding resolution anyone whether it's a developer fair share housing center John Smith member of the public can file a challenge to the number that has to be filed by February 20th now they also have to say why they don't think your number is accurate they can't just say I don't like ppum LS number um and that's when the magical program will start evaluating these challenges now let's say for example you get lucky and no one challenges your number whatever it is that you have selected that means on March 1st your obligation is established by default so you can go about your Merry way your number is now EX Stone the next deadline is June 30th which sounds like a long time apart but I will tell you it's 121 days between March 1st and June 30th by June 30th you have to have a brand new housing plan authored and adopted housing plans require both your planning board to approve it because it's a master plan element but it's the only master plan document that also requires the governing body's endorsement because it can contemplate expenditures so it's a two meeting process on top of that that housing plan has to be accompanied by all of the ordinances that are necessary to implement so I know in this round the B had several sites that it rezoned via various Redevelopment I don't know if they were ordinances or Redevelopment plans but there were several sites identified so all of the ordinances for those sites would have to be included the new sites um that would be selected as well as all the supporting documentation typically a housing plan plus all of its supporting documentation is anywhere from 200 to 9900 Pages by the time you're done depending on the size of your obligation and the number of mechanisms selected 121 days is not a lot of time when you think about it because there has to be policy decisions made there have to be meetings about where are we going to place this obligation and so if the burough is going to go down the road of following these timelines I would encourage you don't wait until March 1st to start thinking about this because there will simply not be enough time it's going to go by in a blink of an eye that June 30th deadline is the the next deadline where you can lose immunity if you miss that date um after that once again any interrested party can file an objection to your housing plan saying why they don't like it and why they don't think it's constitutionally compliant and then the program will evaluate any disputes there's no timelines after that because I think they realize that there's going to be several disputes across the State and it's going to take some time to process all of those so the next deadline won't happen until March of 2026 and that's when you actually adopt the effectuating ordinances so the ordinances would be attached to that housing plan in draft format but they wouldn't actually be adopted until they were reviewed and approved by the program so as this letter um oh I should note one other thing durational adjustments are still allowed a durational adjustment is when a town doesn't have sufficient water and or sewer to satisfy its entire obligation I have to admit I don't know anything about your water and sewer but I know in some towns that's a real issue that some towns are getting very close to their maximum limits and it's going to become a problem in this next round um the other item I would point out is page 68 of the legislation makes a significant change that does impact Pompton Lakes in fact it affects every town in the highlands the pine and the metaland so irregardless of the fact that you have not opted in the new legislation says that any new residential units uh that are built have to have a 20% set aside so a good message to pass along to your planning and your zoning board is if they have any new applications not anything to do with what was in your um Court settlement in the third round but if there's anything new that comes in and they are inclined to approve it has to have a 20% affordable housing set aside or you will now be violating the fair housing act so that is my very brief summary I'm happy to take any questions that you have I know this is a pound cake to digest so first of all I want to thank you for presenting it the way you did it was easily understandable now dealing with this a while and dealing with the state I'm sure they're going to change things and dates are going to be changed and they're going to extend things and so you know we're not gearing for that but my question for you is we got everything done in round three to have it done but never got the judge to sign off on it so now what happens Broan every day would say I'm signing retired I understand problem so what happens if that point so it if you are at the the one yard line when everything is done it's in your best interest to have that Judgment of repose I I did something with the microph um and so that the a judgment of repose is much stronger than what's going to be as part of this new legislation this new legislation you essentially get a certificate I feel like I'm handing my seven-year-old something that she got from her teacher um it does not have the same strength as a judgment of repose now the Judgment of her POS for a town that did go through this third round process was supposed to extend into until July someday the first week of July every town is different and so what this new legislation does is it it actually eliminates 6 months of your judgment of repose and compliance and that's what protects you from Builder remedy lawsuits um and and anything in that manner and so what it's also frustrating to me is so towns were presented with the carrot and stick approach and that's always how coaz worked the carrot was always coming and voluntary compliance and you'll receive protection under COA was a substantive certification under this round it was a judgment of repose and compliance in this new round it's a paper certificate but the paper certificate isn't as strong as a judgment of repose and compliance so if if you're at the Finish Line um I would suggest filing an order Channel my attorney brain but yes whatever the vehicle is to get the new judge's attention we were one of the first towns to get the agreement and get it finished and done and this goes back four attorneys Ago by the way maybe five um uh so we had gotten that all done and we just couldn't get him to sign he kept saying I'll sign it next week I'll sign it next week and that went on for years so now we're at a point where we have an agreement it's all worked out it's all done nobody signed it from the other side so we'll have to work on that M pay attention to okay now that makes sense because I I scoured the internet and your I couldn't find a judgment and now I know why okay any other questions um real quick so I'm Thea on to the MUA and actually the MUA just did a uh preliminary Capacity Analysis on the Wastewater and the potential capacity is limited would that be a reason why the burrow would basically revise look to revise down the number of the housing units because we're getting to the point where we're getting close to like 80 5% um depending on what developments come through and everything like that um and then all of a sudden we're in a different territory and things like that so the 85 um percent is that their flow capacity right now or does that take into account all the projects that are outlined in so there's it's not every project that's in the in the fair share plan that's been identified as a developable site but there are projects that are in various stages of the project pipeline that they've accounted for so they've added in in those um that generation of Wastewater so that has already accounted for to a degree there's a couple other numbers that are sort of like these developments may or may not happen that affects that number and that would actually put us over the 80 85% threshold and then then we're not too far into 90 it doesn't take too much to get into 95 so we're already getting to the point where absent additional weight water capacity would actually have an impact on our ability to provide affordable housing based on inclusionary zoning and all of that other stuff too is the entire burrow sewered or do you have areas where there it's all SE okay all right because okay that's good to know because I have a town where some of our sewers reserved for failing septics that are adjacent to the sewer service area so I think I think that we'd want to take a deep dive with the MUA to see how many of the projects in the existing housing plan were included and how many weren't and if we put it all in how much capacity do you have left because if we put it all in because that's you know once you sign that settlement agreement you said we're going to build or we're going to make it possible to build all this okay and so if we put all those developments into the calculation and you're out of sewer then then you are going to have an issue and then um a durational adjustment is is not terribly hard to do uh um in fact I like it it's it's easier than a vacant land adjustment because the numbers are what they are um especially if you have one sewer provider that makes life much easier and are do you have any inter connections no we well just the one I I don't know if we have sewer inter connections I know we have water inter connections so so yes that's something you definitely would want to look at because I if if I had to guess you should ECT that your third your fourth round number is probably going to be around 100 units and if you want to the only if you want to Zone your way out of that you're talking about with the 20% set aside five times that amount does that include the unmet need because we we we did the vacant land adjustment so we had the prospective need and the Curr third not according to your settlement agreement I thought h2m had done analysis so I could tell you the settlement agreement that's attached to your house plan did not do a vacant land analysis you were satisfying the entire obligation of 265 but some of that was covered under the UN need numbers right some stuff we'll have to look into that a little bit so you know for for the public and for the council this is a very complicated thing that we've been dealing with for many many years and it'll this will go on forever um the state uh in their wisdom makes decisions sometimes that aren't the smartest for the towns M themselves even even for themselves to figure out the whole procedure they don't even have it in place yet so we're holding our breath we'll make we'll see what we got to do with your help and administrator and our attorney we'll try to get where we got to be any other questions nope okay thank you thank you guys have a good [Music] night motion to open the meeting to public uh session second president Council crw all favor against anyone from the public like to address seeing no one that hand up down what is that St yes step up stop sh it um Randy H 443 Monclair Avenue um resolution 24 215 um I think it was the council meeting that you were on vacation Mr Mayor okay I had understood that the uh roof was leaking the DPW garage and uh I had brought up about where are we in rebuilding the DPW garage and uh council president deline was running the meeting of course your absence and I see there's a submission to to the Congress to Congress Pas Congressman Pas Grell for replacement of the garage and I just wanted to thank councilman the line the one time that he took over and uh I mentioned about the DPW garage and jez action was happening already he got it all done that's all just one meeting you missed and amazing things I don't miss meetings I want to thank you see Michael Michael makes us all look thank you um 24220 about the violation extension is not going to be discussed in Workshop that resolution oh I'll answer it again okay and um in ordinance 2423 how does the town ascertain which it says certain New Jersey for lead based pain we forgot the ti paint inspections of certain rental properties how do we ascertain what the L check okay thank thank you anyone else from the public like to address excuse thank you seeing no one can I have a motion to close the public session so move coun president line councilwoman kilberg all in favor against all right do start with 20 2015 yes uh councilman dwine council president DNE had the complete solving of that problem no we we have been dealing with this for a little bit and we had some meetings just recently on it with uh some some of our committies um and we're trying many different Avenues to see where we can appropriate enough money to uh fix that building and build a new building there um which one the grace period yes we will be talking that in work in workshop and 2423 there is a Formula that identifies the houses but to let Michael explain what that formula is thanks mayor so for the public this is the a lead based paint inspection program which is a a newly adopted law by the state um the municipality uh has an obligation to inspect homes I'm sorry rental units single family and multi- dwelling rental units that were constructed prior to 1978 uh and inspect them for lead based paint so this ordinance establishes the program and we're in the process of retaining a consultant to the inspections okay thank you approval of minutes motion to approve the following minutes regular meeting minutes April 24th 2024 so council president line Second councilwoman kilberg all in favor against bills and claims motion to approve the following list listed below can I have a motion motion councilman venon second council president deline all in favor I I against okay consent agenda does anybody need anything removed yes mayor 24 209 please 209 yes sir I'm sorry 209 24 209 okay anybody else okay whenever you're ready list where is the mayor and B Council the B the consent agend cons proposed resolutions and May and bur Council B Trum LS does desire to remove resolutions for individual action from that agenda now therefore be the following resolutions on the consent agenda are hereby approved we're going to be remov 24 dish 209 and we're going to approve 24210 through 24220 okay thank you motion to approve the resolutions motion councilman venon second councilwoman kilberg all in favor against uh 24 209 you had a question yes I just wanted to thank Christian Jennings for her service on the three boards and that she went Above and Beyond on the boards that I served and uh hopefully her replacement will come close yes she she did do three boards for us so we thank her for taking the time out to do that and she did a good job I know in the library board she did an outstanding job um so I I do thank her okay Liz just 24209 then accepting the resignation of Christine Jennings from the B of pton Lake secretary to the pton Lakes Library Board of Trustees th preservation commission and flood advisory FL motion to approve resolution 24209 motion councilman venon second council president thne all in favor I I against ordinances whenever you're ready first reading second reading and final adoption May 22nd ordinance 24-23 amending code of the B of com provide for the administration of the requirements imposed by the state of New Jersey for lead based a inspection of certain residential rental dwelling and to establish fees for inspection motion approve ordinance 2423 for introduction motion council president the line councilman benon all in favor I against 24 24 I'm going to dooll oh I'm sorry roll call I'm sorry Council yes counc yes Council yes counc yes counc yes okay ordinance 2424 amending chapter 2 of General ordinance and revising the organizational structure of the police department motion to approve ordinance 24 24 for introduction some councilwoman kilberg second councilman Cruz all in favor I roll call I'm sorry roll call councilman yes Council kber yes councilwoman paor yes Council V yes Council approve yes ordinance 2425 amending chapter 2 of the rised General ordinances and requiring commissioners of the Redevelopment agency to be residents of the B of con motion approve ordinance 24-25 for introduction motion councilwoman pador second councilwoman kilberg roll call please councilman yes Council yes Council yes Council Ben no councilman yes okay final adoptions final adoptions these dis ordinance has been advertised and posted under board Amendment chapter 14 refusing recycling of the code of the B conation revising the penalties for violation for the provisions of that chapter motion to open the meeting for public comments on ordinance 24-22 [Music] motion councilman benon councilwoman bori all in favor against anyone from the public like to address just this ordinance please step up head 443 mon just an observation in reading the it says be it ordained by the burrow Council of burrow Pompton Lakes in the county of mar when did we change counties I don't see that right top where oh in the actual oh okay we'll fix that thank you Ty thank you thank you motion to close the meeting for public comments on ordinance 24-22 motion councilwoman paor councilwoman kilberg all in favor against motion to approve ordinance 24-22 for final adoption have a motion Council president's line councilwoman alori roll call please Council yes Council yes yes yes yes okay thank you okay under my report um last night I attended the paciic county 200 Club of of our award dinner last night over 400 people were in attendance these awards are given out to First Responders who have gone Above and Beyond in their duties our very own volunteer fire department Captain Zachary majis received the Valor award for his heroic actions in the house explosion on Ramapo Avenue Well Done by all our volunteer firemen who risked their lives on a daily basis and it was a great event there was a lot of really heartbreaking stories there a lot of uh information about big bus with drugs and auto autos and cars so you know it's a Well well-run organization a lot of people there um two weeks AG last week I organized a meeting last week with the assistant commissioner of the D and numerous D representatives and Mayors and administrators from surrounding towns to discuss the operation of the dam and the reservoir the meeting was productive but a lot of the questions that were asked by myself and the mayor of Wayne really did not go answered we hope to have a follow-up meeting soon try to get more answers to make up make sure Pompton is not being sacrificed with the dam operation and continue pushing to have the reservoir lowered so did a very good PowerPoint presentation the PowerPoint presentation was 45 minutes and they they set the meeting for an hour so they didn't really leave a lot of room for discussion on talk I can tell you that the mayor of Wayne's suggestion and I'm doing a little research now to see if it's viable he wants to open the dam before a storm a little bit and just keep it open the whole event so water is constantly running through through it's not a bad idea when he asked that question they could not give him an answer why they couldn't do it they said they'd get back to them and what I asked about a way to lower the reservoir weeks before storm event when we know a bunch of rain is coming they said I'm talking to the wrong department they will bring the next Department in at the next meeting to kind of discuss that so maybe we'll get some more answers we did have an assistant uh commissioner there um hopefully we'll get the actual commissioner next time so more to follow with that um I attended the river cleanup with over 100 volunteers uh cleaning our rivers in PMP Lakes you know that's as I said down there this is one of the events that makes pton Lakes what it is residents coming out to clean their own communities and do what they have to do the garbage and there was a bunch of people from up here who were there um the garbage they pulled out of there was amazing of how much garbage in one year remember we do this every year was pulled out um the rain didn't damper there was a little rain the rain didn't damper The Experience well over 100 volunteers to do it so I thank everybody who put this in I thank the environmental Club I thank councilwoman kilberg for helping organize it um it was a nice event and it was nice to see everybody out outside working hard I was excited to accept a $500,000 check from Congressman pasel for our library we had applied for a grant from his office and received it and he came here in person to present the check he recognized our library as a historic building and we hope to do improvements with this money we thank we can't thank Congressman enough for coming here in person and for getting us that money it was a big deal and $500,000 will go a long way to put our historic bill a historic building back together I had numerous meetings with the department heads and our administrator the DPW police Personnel I performed a couple weddings last week and lastly tomorrow I'm honored to attend a rotary soldout event for our own councilman Billy beg a man who has always been dedicated to this community for the last 30 years he is definitely missed and I'm glad to see the public is representing him tomorrow at this event and that is my report council president v um all my meetings are in this usually around the second so I have no reports tonight okay thank you uh councilwoman kilberg um I attended the flood board meeting um and I would like to thank Lauren venon and the rest of the members for teaching me something new every time I attend a meeting it's very interesting um I attended the Arbor Day presentation at Lennox and Lincoln School this year and it was fun hearing all the names the kids thought up for their trees and Humphrey was my favorite personal favorite um I attended the Fine Arts night at the high school um and we have some very talented students the artwork work was impressive and the live performances were spectacular um the Pompton Lakes River cleanup um was this past Sunday it was a nice turnout uh for a cold rainy day I would like to thank Jean Hoffman and The Columbia Bank for their generous donation and I'd also like to thank Valerie Cole for all her help and the bid for their generous donation as well without them the day would not have been possible and thank you to everyone who came out to help um and last night I attended the 200 clubs Valor reward dinner where um the Pompton Lakes volunteer of fire department's Captain Zach m m maansi um received a Valor award for his heroic acts on January 14th 2023 thank you Zach and all our First Responders for your service to our community that's my report and thank you uh councilwoman Paul dor thank you uh so I along with councilwoman kilberg and Shay Tre commissioner Randy Hinton um brought the third grade tree program to both Lincoln and Lennox again this year I think this is our eighth year right of Randy and I doing this so we we were happy to welcome councilwoman kilberg with us and I do want to thank our bur administrator so for those of you that are not familiar with it it's a program implemented by the state where they give free tree seedlings to any third grade student any school that wants to distribute them to their third grade students there have been some issues with NJ forestry as far as Staffing and tree growth this year so they were not able to get a sufficient amount of those seedlings and being that it was 8 years and we do have parents that reach out every year and show us how the trees are growing and siblings that attend that have um younger brothers and sisters that wanted to be a part of that as well our burough administrator in a pinch was able to find us trees to get through the program this year so I thank you the principles really enjoy it the kids get a big kick out of it um so it was a really nice day and Humphrey was cute we had a Taylor Swifts we had no John Cena this year every year for eight years we've had a John Cena tree so he was replaced by Taylor Swift this year um I also attended the library Grant presentation we are fortunate to have a very beautiful library in this town so I thank everyone involved uh in helping us secure those funds so that we can make the improvements that that building needs I also attended numerous DPW finance and Personnel meetings discussions uh as we just heard centered around the future of what that site looks like and uh look forward to hearing what some of the ideas and changes we can make to improve that facility for our workers are as well um I attended a pasta dinner at the Elks the recipient of this most recent pasta dinner was uh first responder from our town who has returned to school to further her education in the healthcare field and go on to be um paramedic so we were able to raise funds to help her offset the cost of that I attended the prevention Coalition meeting um I also attended the 82nd 82 years birthday the 82nd birthday dinner for the Pompton Lakes Women's Club an organization in town that does a tremendous amount of work behind the scenes to help a lot of our community organizations so it was nice to see a completely packed room uh at Villa Verde of a lot of members that came out to share some food and friendship that evening I also attended the 200 Club dinner for pay County at The Brownstone uh and I I thank our own for um his Valor and his efforts in the house fire last year his rescue efforts for two of his fellow firefighters it was a moving evening um as a member i' I've sat through a few of these and I'll tell you every year you hear some stories that are just extraordinary so it was uh probably the most packed I've seen it over 400 seat seats filled and uh I think close to 90 recipients across the state for numerous activities so we thank all of our First Responders for everything they do every day um I also attended a small business webinar which I'm asking for some information on additionally that I hope to share with the bid soon regarding some grants that are being released at the county level to uh startup and existing small businesses in Pay County and coming up for this weekend I also will be in attendance at The Rotary dinner happy to see that that was sold out welld deserved and an extraordinary honor um I will be attending The Walk For Hope on Saturday and uh breakfast at the Elks is being served on Sunday in honor of all of our moms so if you have Mom and you're looking for somewhere to have breakfast they do a great job and I would like to wish all of the mothers a very happy Mother's Day this weekend and that is my report okay thank you uh councilman benon thank you mayor uh I want to thank uh Dave col and congratulations on his recognition I can attest to the work that he's done had a huge impact on our the flood affected uh residents definitely want to thank you the uh Environmental Protection committee and the volunteers who did all the river cleanup I wasn't available to attend but I saw that there were a lot of folks that did attend and did a lot of work the Pompton Lakes fine Arch night the food was phenomenal this is my first one and the uh the chicken wings the burgers um what else did they make pizza did you see any art did I see the art yeah there was some stuff hanging on the walls there some stuff hanging on the walls um music you had a teachers band that played some they were they're amazing it was very impressive so thanks to all invol for making that successful uh last weekend I had the opportunity to teach uh Girl Scout Troop 96380 how to change tires uh Leah jayen hadia and Katie you guys did a phenomenal job it was a win-win because I had to swap out my tires anyway on the Jeep so I'll be honest so perfect opportunity they did a great job they learned a life skill I had a lot of parents come up to me and say they never no one never showed them how to change the tire so it was a win-win so thank you ladies you guys did a great job and there'll be additional uh how to check engine oil how to paint a house how to shovel snow what I'm kidding I'm kidding um uh lastly Trails maintenance is uh May 11th at 10 a.m. just before we're going to split ourselves some somehow we'll make it to both Ryan don't worry um Saturday May 11th at 10:00 a.m. we meet right by the uh Red Trail on Lincoln a near the MUA near the radio station and that is my report mayor thank you if the girls would like to come over and paint my house they're more than welcome pass the word along there um councilman Cruz thank you mayor I attended the uh Board of Health meeting on Monday um it was a very brief meeting it was just uh let's see we probably had about five new businesses in town that were issued licenses uh somero Toria Benny's Cafe the den eery which I I did go to and it is excellent I just want to point that out the wings still are very good uh juy Deli and the 2024 pool licenses um no reports from any of the committee members for that meeting uh the Board of Education meeting was yesterday I attended that meeting as well the budget uh the School District budget was approved 42,63916 the tax levy from general fund will be 26,32 7,997 two uh the curriculum Department uh did speak to two new programs one is not so new they had about a year into it um is the UniFi club and UniFi champions of pumpt and Lakes High School and didn't I know about this program I'm going to read directly from the website because it you know the presentation itself was excellent It's for all the special needs children that we have in town from all age groups and it's about inclusivity and including them in a lot of the activities that we take for granted because we do them all the time um such as basketball um so just to direct it's a National Organization you do need to provide your own funding we were able to get two grants 5,000 last year fortunately this year it was cut in half but they made it work um the uh so I'm just going to read this from the website Special Olympics unified Champion schools is a program for school's prek through University that intentionally promotes meaningful social inclusion by bringing together students with and without intellectual disabilities to create accepting School environments very important I mean I love that in itself utilizing three interconnected Comm components Special Olympics Unified sports inclusive youth leadership and whole school engagement so last night two of the uh participants Zion I think everybody's familiar with Zion and Ryan um they were awesome they were so excited and more about kicking but they played the teachers on senior night and they were very excited about how many points they scored in and did an awesome job uh the other item which is a new program going to start this year in the school so please share this uh with the young ones if you have uh from prek to three this program is called amplify ckla um this program right now is going to be started for the 24 25 school year it's an online platform and it's interesting the approach so I'm going to give you the example they gave last night they brought up Greek mythology a lot of the Gods so what they do is that um they use this and the language associated with this particular period of History um to get the kids to embrace understand and their Fanatics become more improved by utilizing this language through obviously in this particular example Greek gods fiction and non-fiction um so it was very interesting it was a great presentation um I'm looking forward to see the report come next year to see how well they're doing and the last item I just want to go over a lot of the expenses that are going to go on for the 24 25 school year for the school um I did mention this probably about two months but I just want to reiterate this again so a lot of the capital projects total up to 1,958 468 which will cover Lakeside turf field bleachers $699,000 Lennox Synthetic Turf if you guys at Lennox by the basketball court you know the patch of grass that's in the far right that's going to be converted to synthetic that is $312,450 lenux HVAC upgrade $258,000 115 plhs culinary room flooring 191,000 $147 plhs science lab upgrade 376,162 business office CST Atlantic second floor hallway flooring 45 45,000 lenux boiler room hallway abatement 17,000 and linoln schol office upgrades and other to a total of 27,000 445 um and obviously this is to occur over the 24 25 school year here and one last thing The Walk For Hope is Saturday folks so please remember to register there's still time get your groups together um online registration is still available um obviously you can be in person show up at 10:00 I'm excited it's going to be a great day rain or shine where they're meeting where oh so we're meeting at the high school okay so be there by 10:00 a.m. Ryan will be there I'll be there a bunch of folks ready to help and I look forward to seeing quite a few people there um and uh that'll do us for my report man real quick any word on the new marching van director no I not last night I didn't hear anything on the new marching van director okay so I was glad to hear five new businesses that's a big number of businesses to come in town that's a nice one already and I can that's great to hear that's really good okay uh attorney report any report uh thank you mayor nothing SE okay administrators report thank you mayor um tomorrow we have a preconstruction meeting scheduled uh for the Howard Street maple Street babbit Place replace Road resurfacing project excuse me um we should have a firmer schedule on that moving forward um we're accepting bids tomorrow for the herfield street and acrian place improvements project a preconstruction meeting will follow on that the Dos Highway improvements project is under engineering design right now um we're hoping to Target a uh milling and Paving this fall for that project um Lincoln a phase 2 as I mentioned in the prior council meeting is scheduled for Milling on May 23rd and May 24th and Paving is scheduled for May 28th and May 29th with striping activities on June 1st Saturday June 1st so we're looking forward to that project uh getting underway and of course the police department and the schools have all been notified and are involved with traffic control um last Friday I met on site with the pic County Roads Department at the intersection of Lennox and ramco ab uh we uncovered approximately 5 ft of compacted debris at the bottom of one of our inlets um which we seem to believe has caused the localized flooding issue along lenux a um it appeared that someone at some point uh dumped a significant amount of wet concrete into the inlet um which has caused this issue they had to jackhammers down into the inlet to break it up we thought it was the bottom but it was a false bottom of the inlet so that's what caused the issue so we did uncover a lot of pipes we do believe the system is operational but we are uh dispatching a TV inspection crew to uh TV the lines again to make sure that everything is uh fully operational the WAN qav P Replacements project is complete it was completed uh last week uh for for a total cost of 44,000 all of which was covered by pic County Corridor enhancement funding which is a special uh fund that is collected from Redevelopment projects within pton lakes and that that's collected through the county so that's the county giving funds back to the burrow um so I think the business owner should be appreciative of the uh beautification efforts that are uh moving forward and on that note uh our new flower racks long w q app have been installed and the flowers are expected to be installed next week we have ordered 61 American flags for kofax a and those should be up before Memorial Day and lastly we are uh in discussions with the burrow engineer on a candidate for this year's uh dot Municipal Aid funding we're looking at either Lakeside a or Garden Road as candidates both are uh in pretty poor condition uh amongst our road resurfacing list and that is all I have thank you mayor I got to thank you and and the county for for fixing the problem over at lenx you know that was a newer problem in the last couple of years and they know that you know unfortunately there was cement in there and now hopefully that's going to clear up those drains it's a big deal for those residents over there you know you're going to Residents who never had any water issues all of a sudden getting water in their basement so that's a big deal and the uh you know the pavers outside in the front there they look great they do they they came out nice and I hope we can do more of that as we move along to make that work any questions for the administrator nope okay uh Workshop uh tree ordinance violation and Amendment fees why don't you to start with that Mike and then go from there thank you mayor um so on tonight's agenda uh the governing body adopted a grace period for the new model tree ordinance so with that is a uh grace period on the enforcement of the ordinance uh up until September 1st so there is no enforcement there's no inpections no violation fee uh up until September 1st and with that we're going to put out an educational campaign to the residents uh to inform them of this new ordinance before we start enforcing it um and I I should note that we do have uh we have submissions from bough Forester Consultants that we are reviewing and hopefully by the next council meeting we should be in a position to approve a contract for the uh for the position furthermore uh under Workshop tonight I wanted to talk about the violation fee itself in the ordinance uh the way it's written right now is it's up to $1,000 fine or the replacement cost of the tree or both for each tree removed or damaged in violation of the ordinance and with our discussion at the last council meeting or the meeting before it seemed that the governing body uh possibly wanted to reduce the up to $11,000 fee uh I will tell you I looked at some of our surrounding municipalities recently adopted ordinances it's ranging anywhere from $200 to $1,000 so I just wanted to have a discussion on if there was a intention to change the violation fee well before we get there you know there's I don't know if everybody's been noticing there's been a lot of news about this ordinance in other towns you know a lot of towns are having the same issues we're having with dis ordinance so um maybe the state will take a glance at that and need to change it but right now how do you guys feel about the penalty well I think the first thing is I know we have to hire someone we're in the process you're already okay so you know obviously we don't want to go in the negative and paying their salary to cover this so at a minimum whatever that number is to cover and is it necessary as far as the expertise and certification or whatever is required for this particular individual there's no one on the shade tree committee there's no one do you require the or the um as far as the certifications that are required for this role is that specified by the state on what is required or is that something that we just need to know it's a Forester you have to have a license to be a Forester working for the state um there's not that many of them to believe it or not so I know shade tree and myself and Michael are going to sit down with the couple we got one two two of them we know already but yeah they have to be a registered uh Forest we can't just have shet tree or anybody else go Dave is that actually part of the LA but for liability reasons you would want that as well you want you want someone out there who knows what they're what they're talking about so I'm of the opinion as long as whatever we agree to here covers that salary it's hard to say though because we're talking about the violations though we're not talking people who cut down trees when yeah but the fee but the fee that we charge is going to be I mean obviously we're not looking to another account to pay that salary well yes uh councilman the uh permit fee and the replacement schedule fee would would in part mostly cover the said Forester position but for someone you know a resident uh goes and cuts down a you know a 3ot wide tree you know technically I have to find them uh according to the ordinance and as it's written it's up to $11,000 or the replacement cost of the tree up to the determination of the Forester who tasked with implementing the ordinance so we just need to talk about that so this is about doing it illegally so you don't follow the procedure there's going to be a penalty involved we have to decide on what the penalty is so I'm confused I I thought we were reviewing the fee schedule that I didn't realize we were discussing the cap on the violation I thought we were revisiting the fee schedule for the permits well we could certainly revisit the fee schedule at the next meeting but I thought the the intention was the uh violation fee we thought was excessive I my problem with the whole thing is isn't even the fee schedule or the necessarily the fine it's the um determination of what killed the tree I mean so if somebody says oh you put too much mulch so you killed your tree I mean can you really so to find somebody $1,000 for that to me that is a strange violation like how do you know for sure that's what killed the tree that's that was my issue what determines you know you pruned it too much well I'm not a tree expert if I cut some branches and the tree dies I didn't do it on purpose but now I'm going to be find I could be find $1,000 for trying to prune my tree that was my issue what we are saying is finable not necessarily the fine itself well uh I don't know that the ordinance specifies how the tree dies I know if the tree is dead that you do not need to replace it it's essentially exempt you know but we'll review it further with the bur attorney that is true I agree with you because you know homeowner doesn't know what they did or didn't do right that's what I'm concerned about right so that does make some sense so maybe we should review that a little bit not necessarily the fine you know if we know there's an ordinance and we intentionally take down a tree yeah so why don't we throw a number around right now for for people who kind of just illegally take a tree down without following the permitting process $1,000 to me is too much but that's me I agree I think $1,000 is too much but I'm I'm less concerned about alleviating the pain on someone that's purposely broken the law as opposed to the fees we have in place for the people that are trying to do the right thing I'd rather take it from the other side right and and just to note probably 85% of the applicants are going to be exempt it's mostly dead trees and and hazardous trees that are identified in the ordinance so hopefully there's only a limited uh clientele that's taking out a application that is cutting down a tree that is a cosmetic issue or or something of that effect but uh we could certainly look at those fees again too I'd rather see that I mean if you break the law and cut the tree down that you're not supposed to cut down that's the fine I don't whatever that is it is I'm I'm not as concerned about that as long as you're telling me if someone accidentally kills it they're exempt I don't want to punish people that mistaken cuz I well right now they're not so in in there it does say you know if the arborist came out and said well this tree died because you put too much mulch around it you can be fine for that it's that they consider that a finable offense yes so I don't agree with that but if you're going outside and cutting your trees down without permission and trying to get away with it and you get caught then you should be fined and I'm okay with whatever the maximum is on that but if it's inadvertent then you know do we want to start lower I mean I would say 500 500 the reality is I mean do we really expect that most residents are even going to know they're probably just going to do this and then they're going to finding out yeah after they cut it down after they cut it down so you know we need to drop that number it's 500 too high cuz cuz that's going to be a big is they're not going to know about this well we're doing a a grace period and an educational campaign okay I just want to make sure that the number that we select lot is not going to be used to offset costs that we have in other areas regarding this well what is that that's I'm I'm asking I'm asking is it used to offset cost that's why we have these numbers that we agree to you know whether it's that's what that when we had this discussion previously the discussion centered around because we're getting into two different things the the permit fees and everything like that we discussed and the ordinance was to cover the costs associated with the Arbus doing the permitting doing the assessment things like that so that individual user Bears the cost of that assessor rather than putting it on the entire tax tax ERS of the the town so that's one thing the fines are something completely different that we're discussing tonight and my question is what's the typical replacement cost of a tree that's up to the determination of the Forester if it's a younger tree that's only a you know 3in caliber tree it's you know could be anywhere from 75 to to $300 Oh So based on the caliber of the tree that been illegally removed right but if it's a massive Street tree that is 100t tall it's most likely to the max you know upon the the the determination of the Forester and there's can we do staging or we can't do staging it's it one number is that what we're talking about is it either this number or nothing or can we do 200 300 500 700 no it's up to it should be up to it's a range based on the size the tree okay the Forester would determine what it would cost to replace that tree now the Forester is is being paid as he comes out or this is going to be a salaried employee no he's paid per per site visit and we've already figured out mathematically that whatever his site visit is is going to be justified by the fees and permits are we over are we over that can it be brought down a little bit or are we needing it well historically Foresters charge $75 to $95 the submissions that we received that we still have to approve uh are $85 to $95 so it is in line with the anticipated uh you know Revenue that we possibly would receive all right so why don't we say I'm just going to throw it out there up to $500 for the fine or do you want to go up to a th000 that's the question I'm good up to 500 it's a huge tree up to a th000 it's going to cost it's a minimum of $300 to replace yeah it depends on the tree you're right right so is there well the reality is you're never actually going to replace that tree yeah like that's when it comes down you're never going to you're not going to put plant $1,000 tree to replace a 100y old tree or anything like that you're going to end up PL a brand new tree for multiple trees councilman what's that for that one large tree you I understand that but you like finding someone $1,000 is not going to replace that tree that's what it comes out it set a precedent I understand that but it's also up to the judge on how much actually find them but and I'm not actually disputing you on the $1,000 but let's just let's make it clear that finding someone $1,000 is not going to end up replacing it may deter them though from taking down down a healthy tree so this is per occurrence so if you take down three illegal trees yes and you say $1,000 theoretically it could be $3,000,000 M so a lot of trees in the South End that could be replanted it's baren well I think what Mike is looking for is some guidance on the number so we have to come up with a number I think up to 500 seems how's 500 does that sound good fair to everybody seems reasonable I have no problem with a thousand you have no problem with thousand I have no problem with a th000 I I don't either as long as it's done fairly I I do have some concern about councilwoman kilberg point though yeah I think we just need to look at a tree yeah I I think the of the arborist would take that into account um well it's in there that's why I said I wanted to talk about it and maybe tweak it because we can tweak the ordinance and make account not so we can take a look at all right so I mean you have people that are going to be following the rules that might want to cut down four trees to put a pool in and they're going to have to come in and they're going to have to pay the the cost of not replacing it right because that's what we're doing if you cut down a tree and you're not replacing you have to pay a fee for that now this person's going through all this expense and I'm sure that if it's four trees to cut down their pool they're going to go somewhere in that range of what someone is now going to cut down without permission and they're going to be find less than what someone did it the right way like that doesn't seem fair to me either yeah and I I will note that we do not have a pool uh exception in in the current ordinance what do you mean uh there could be an exception if someone's putting in a pool we could uh exempt them but the problem with the pool is and I because I deal with it a lot on the zoning board most people that are putting in a pool have to get variances for the pool there's there's not enough room as the rule states on most properties now in in town for pools so how does that work after they get the approval what if it's not a pool what if it's a patio yeah anything anything you want to do to improve the aesthetic of your backyard I you know they would be subject to the requirements yes so they're subject to the requirements so now I I want to take these trees down because I want to ramp my backyard and I do it the right way and I take four trees down and now I've paid the cost of not replanting them permits all of that and then my neighbor doesn't want to do it the right way and now we're we're relaxing what the fine is for him and I've gone so I would rather re alleviate the burden on the people that are doing it the right way and I don't the penalty for the person that's doing the wrong way then you know well I have a question if if say I removed a tree and I didn't want to replant can I if if you if I was told by the arborist well now you'll have to replant three trees for this one can I pay to replant those three trees somewhere else in town yeah yeah yes and there's there's a fe structure for that okay yeah all right so what I'm hearing is it looks like up to $1,000 for the uh fine um could you do some more research both of you I guess on on the what the councilwoman kilber is bringing up absolutely um to see how we can play with that a little bit yes and to councilwoman Paula dory's point we'll take a second look at the uh at the at the exceptions and the fees and come back with the further recommendations okay okay next who's doing this next one you or uh Michael well um I can do this um unless Michael has something he wants to add so at the U at the last meeting we were asked to take a look at um primary attorneys Prime B Council memo on the foreign government and the division of power is between the mayor and the council I've looked at it I didn't I didn't want to rewrite it because I agree with the the the substance of the memo so I guess my question is what what questions do you have regarding that I know that um a couple questions have come up regarding um council contact with professionals council contact with department heads and because it's a strong Council um that's really up to you as the council whether you want to have council members individually reaching out to professionals and department heads I will say this you have a burrow administrator um in a in a burrow manager form of government council members are not allowed to reach out to their professionals department heads they to channel those Communications through the burrow manager the the municipal manager that's not this form of government but it may be a model for the best practices because what you don't want is a duplication of communications to to me or contradictory Communications to department heads in the burrow and so you have a bur administrator it's probably best to use your burrow administrator in that way but it's entirely your fault how you want to how you want to communicate with me or any of the professionals as well as the department bu but my recommendation would be to use your bar ad no for that purpose so what you're saying is I could email you if I wanted to but I really should be asking Michael the question and direct it to you okay I'm because he may be you know he there may be other Communications that other folks have reached out to Michel on if they someone asks so if Eric then emails him the same question he already has the answer and we don't have to talk to you twice exactly because you're already paying him every time they reach out to um so I'm okay with that we got to this point because we started to head and and this is not the first time it's come come up where we where we are kind of told we can't correspond with anyone unless copy and this is not you're taking it to between the council and bur administrator that wasn't a discussion we've been told you know we can't send EMS out unless you copy the mayor we've been told we can't reach out to anyone unless we ask the May's permission we've been told the May told professionals they not L speak to the council and it's been stopped and now it gets Revisited and then it's been stopped and I so I want to just have it finalized so that we want to continue going through this because it's a waste of your time as a pro administrator and your time as an attorney to can continue to do this we are a Le mayor strong counsel so at any point in time any one of us up here can make a motion to change anything and with the majority vote that's it we basically make the decisions the council yeah that's correct but as executive of the town and overseeing of the town I should be aware of any Communications going on with department heads or professions that that is part of being of the job as the executive of the town I can't be hindsight by a professional coming to have said I had this discussion with two your Council people and they both were asking different things well channeling it through the BR administrator should alleviate that because you do most to your communication with him I think what what we're missing the point on here is that this has become a micromanagement of such minutia that it's actually um unbelievable I mean conversations that are that are irrelevant and we've been called out on you know I I must be copied on this so much so I have an email that went back to work in 2022 where I was told I wouldn't I would would not be included in anything until I learned to copy the mayor and all of my correspondents you should be copy me we don't I don't have to I let me just say your emails do get to if Michael wants to entertain that and forward all of the little conversations that are of no consequence basic questions is about the color of L and equipment at one point so I I don't know about the rest of you I have an assistant and I certainly don't micromanage orer emails I would lose my mind had to read all of their emails I trust that we have hired a professional bur administrator that works close with all of these council members that can coordinate with the mayor we don't work for you we work for this whole town we don't have to answer to and we've gotten to the point where and I am going to say that I actually could ask to go back two or 3 years um and see if you can prove to me in writing that this just has not been asked for for living a and I'd like to see all correspondents going back for between the other council members that they' all will copy because you you have done it to me in such a way where it's actually inappropriate all right as executive as executive of the town I have to be made aware of any decisions that are being to Dr about either through Michael or but you don't I you I do you do not well then I you need to explain to us what the executive of's job is well okay um so mayor is a very handsome um and very involved in uh communicating with so it's understandable if you want to be copying um but the council is not required no I'm not you so I just just to be clear on that it's understandable that you want to um but uh but the council is free to email the the administrator or email without copying you on it um but you know at the same time um while we're talking about emails I always like to just remind all public officials that your emails are overal so just being be tou for that as well so um there may be good reasons to copy you want uh particularly given the role you've assumed in this bu burrow um but it it cannot be required counil so for example an email to sent to administrator today asking for him to make an appointment of some sort that email should have never been sent to it should have been sent to me because I'm making the appointment you don't and I actually spoke before sent by email and all of the appointments are advice and consent and I know you're looking into that now too to see what you can do that's not true I make the appointments you vote on the appointments no it's on ship and that's decided amongst the council at the reord meeting that is not your appointment yes it is we have never done the answer yeah the mayor makes appointments the mayor makes appointments and it's with the consent so the not for our actual Council LS on ship walls I think that's where the confusion was okay um not so so P practice has always been soor is how we decide on ship I think that's actually so that's what happens yeah okay um and I have that conversation with the currently on enro administrator just to fill out where we were well again and I think this is because how we handled our Council assignments we had discussions on B want ultimately rates the business of the actual ordance it's I believe it's the May ofcl ordinance in the constition so we're conducting business I don't want to say behind the scenes but we're trying to figure out what we're going to do in a collective manner I did it myself correspondence with right with correspondence but like ultimately I do believe it is the mayor's appointments on our assignments so you understand that I know that that that that question was a question and that it would have to have been voted on either way so the way being is Con shed right now is that I asked just to have it done I've been up here long enough to know that my asking Michael wasn't going to be Michael was going to say yes and it was going to happen I was asking to see if we knew and I wasn't even going to bring this up because you haven't even made that announcement yet so that's been do wait so I need to have this clarified now so are you saying that the mayor makes the appointment but the council can vote Yes or No that's correct so here's how it works the mayor makes the appointment Council has to be so you need if the council does not consent to it or just does nothing then the mayor then then after 30 days it becomes the council because this is a strong Council there okay so but if you but if you approve it it takes takes to approve it then the so there really is is without things that aren't dict by NJ statute which is very little there isn't really much that we don't control as many no that's right I mean I think there are that is the vast majority there is an appointment to the planning board that is made exclusively by the mayor I believe but there's also an appointment to the planning board that's made exclusively by the council it says I think the historical commission is I think there was some lawsuits I think the mayor has a little more um or I'm sorry [Music] not yeah every time sh um we have a g it's the library board you have you you have uh one or two appointments that you make the LI okay I think this I mean pretty much coms up the whole yes's [Music] appointment full par to exercise all poers the local government in a manner as it's Council made deter within the council so it's my appointment by vote of council that's what we always all right so and then but it's but then it's at our discretion to allow you to do that right we vote and then if we vote no it doesn't matter this very clearly says as a general premise unlike mayor council option Under full crack the mayor in a b form of government has few direct Powers concerning the operation of municipality so then as far as Workshop there's issues with and there was an email where it said I can add or take off whatever I want from the agenda so we have Council people that are asking things to have things put on the agenda and then they're being taken home so where does that land no the the agenda is up to the council okay nothing's been removed that I'm aware of from the from the agenda anything Michael's been asked of he puts on I've never told told did not to add anything no mine was just pushed it pushed it and I pushed it I pushed it a little bit more now yeah I saw that so then we can in fact add whatever we want to the agenda well we're going to talk about I think the next meeting about the workshop itself right yeah okay so um and I have some concerns about that because it seems like it's gone back and forth that all of a sudden there's an issue with Workshop regardless of Workshop we can add whatever we want to the agenda and talk about whatever we want sure so and you have that ability under privilege of the floor as well right but so Workshop privilege of the floor is really an opportunity to speak about anything as an individual Workshop was something we asked for so that as a council we could discuss things that were voting on without violating Quorum M with the ability to use you yep up here before we vote on things so my ask was going to be if we are looking at this it makes more sense to me to have it moved to the front because we talked about the trees after we voted on the resolution right so we're having conversations about things after we're voting on them I think it maybe now that we' kind of walk through it a little bit and we see how it's working if we could move it to the front that's something we'll talk about when we talk about for that's not discussion in time right now yeah remember I'm asking the question so I'm asking the question I'm telling you we'll talk about it at the next Workshop so this is that's what I mean like I don't like the fact that everything I say is being controlled by you when what I'm saying is we're going to discuss it well Michael has some time you can't just throw something at Michael's lap and have him work at it when I spoke with Michael the other day I was under the impression we were we were revisiting it tonight I it wasn't under the agenda so I didn't see it um remember as well that you can always have a resolution pulled if you nor discussion because you can you know before once it's moved and second have a discussion okay that was my next question too at what point in the ordinance is because I think we're missing discussion in there too are we allowed to and I asked the attorney that was here last time and and I don't remember where he pointed but we after you a discussion of a of a either a resolution or an ordinance should not happen until it's moved and seconded at that point you can ask that best prior to the vote introduction motion second before public comment um normally you would do it I would think um well no I think on the second reading you would do it after the public comment because there may be things you better rais by the public all right so not introduction second and final reading but no I mean when you introduce it for the first time you can you can have a discussion then I mean I would think that the workshop um no no um when you introduce an ordinance on on just reading right first reading you can have a discussion then prior to it's moved it's seconded discussion roll calls okay I'm just trying to create an environment where we have the ability to to talk and to ask questions so that we can vote on things appropriately um and I feel like it's like you know we we carve a path and then there's a hurdle and then we carve a path and there and I don't understand that we are the ultimate deciding people in this government so we should have access to whatever information we need however much time we need and the ability to ask whatever questions we need and if we need to do it together or be able to ask the attorney or the BR administrator you should be able to do that freely without there being any hindrance whatsoever and that's a council decision it's not your decision if the council decides actually it's already been decided for us by our form of government no what I'm saying is if we want to put a time limit on a uh Open Session that would be a councel decision not your decision there's no discussion I didn't ask to using that as an example what are you the council can decide they want a session two sessions a month they want one session a month we did we we voted on this it's why it's on the agenda and we didn't vote on until agenda so you have both an attorney and a bur administrator that have gone back looked at the meetings I saw the emails I saw the email from the attorney I've spoken to Mike I saw Mike's email both of them concur that there was no discussion about limiting this and we voted on it without limit am I right in saying that you responded that there was no limit and it was voted on put changes I've have other Council people coming to me wanting to make changes make and they will make the yes they will it seems like you're pushing for it so the other Council people want to make the changes how come no one else brought it up they haven't done it yet if they want to they will I can't make them do it okay as far as asking for information if we need to reach out to either the b cler or the B administr administrator and ask for a copy of something or a document we are able to do that as well okay I have an email where a member uh employee was directed in writing in an email not to send me something I asked for it as I said it's best to go through birs and the stairs but I just want to make sure anything any anything okay any other discussion I'm sorry what was that name I I said I don't know that employees or Department without at the very okay the B administrator that was guided to not provide information to us too so going forward so that we're on the same page B administrator provides us with any information that we ask for thank you I I would I would recommend against having B administrator not provide this information want D the B administrator May makes sense you have open fre FL hoping we can move forward in a more positive direction now if the council being able to operate as the councel any other discussion the only other thing I'll add because it came up is the discussion ordan on the first just be mindful that if you make a subst change in place the second you have to essentially go back to start um and and you start the process over again so ideally we'll be using a workshop s to work through any ordinances that may require discussion so that we don't have to start and then restart uh again the next time be my only I just think the tree one we needed to push we did we we did well sometimes there are sometimes there are time frames and we'll go back and address something any I didn't know about what you were of today so that's a new concern that I hadn't heard before and and and I'm going to go back just for a second to that is there an actual written list of of things that could kill a tree is it actually listed I don't recall it it says um like you know trimming I guess if you trim it too much or mulch yeah it says it in there I it okay over trim TR it happens okay um Workshop tabled items uh motion to open the meeting for public comments motion second Council president of the line councilman Cruz all in favor I against anyone public like to address pleas step up Paul go ahead he's pushing you forward 12 R curiosity Lincoln Avenue is going to be repaid right Long Road from where to where well we'll answer at the end I'll get you that okay you want on Linc app you said extend yep okay good now you may go [Music] Brian gar five car street um with the commitment of councilwoman pador tonight uh it is awesome that everybody on the mayor and Council will be at the walk for H on Saturday um it really is a show of Community Support uh for mental health which is a huge issue is a continuing issue not only uh through the adults in town uh and everybody but uh our students as well uh we're having a huge turnout from the high school as well so I want to thank everybody in advance for being there uh and I also just want to thank the council for approving Dr P to be my assistant a couple months ago uh he's been nothing but a pleasure to the office and an asset uh for not only my office but I hope for the town as well so uh thank you guys for that and thank you and I hope to see you all Saturday should be a great day thank you thank you anyone else from the account uh you had your hand up you step up no one behind you nobody behind ready 44 three mon CL adue um in the discussion you just had in the workshop talking about U ordinances brought up for the first time um from The public's Viewpoint mine a lot of times just like ordinance 2424 it says revising the organizational structure of the police department now me as a resident listening to this have a question what structure are you reorganizing a lot of times at the second reading is you usually have the paper on the table explains more about it but then pretty much as a council you've already made up your mind by the second reading because you're going to vote that and you vot so the public is I'm caught off guard as to what kind of organizational structure of the police department are you talking about so by the time I it's on the table and I can read it and if I still have a question on it you pretty much already made up your minds whether you're vote for it or against it um so from The public's Viewpoint my viewpoint that's a little confusing I mean when it first brought up can we have a little more I can ask at this Podium for you to explain it better but initially people on TV can't ask that you know so they don't know really what's going on with it so if you can talk about what kind of organizational structure you're changing with the police department I'd appreciate that um also when um the administrator was talking about the new Shaker ordinance um we're still under chapter 12 correct and in chapter 12 the fine is $500 or I think it actually says 90 days in prison so I don't think you going put anybody in prison for doing a trie um but this was all set up for burrow right of L trees not for by the property tree and uh I have two incidences in town where the same contractor took down two burrow trees now that's destroying burrow property when you come right down to it um I would still have to talk with Michael us to what we want to do about those two incidents um but you're not talking about the contractor the contractor is the professional himself he should know the laws he should know the laws from all various TS so this contractor was the same contractor that took down two burrow trees you're not talking about finding the contractor which you should he's the professional the property owner is not the professional uh one of the incidences was on Olive Avenue I went to uh 167 Olive to look at a tree placement um the councilman's father's house which has nothing to do with anything these a a resident he gets a tree if he wants one um but while I was there I noticed the tree got okay what happened to it so I got my tax map out I looked at it this was a burrow tree and it was taken down by this same contractor that took down the previous one now I'd have to sit with Michael and we'll talk about what we want to do about this contractor but he is the paid professional he should know he says to me that the property owner said that it was her the property owner doesn't know on this part of Olive Avenue where ex-father lives there's no sidewalks this thing was 5 ft from the from the road or less and when I rode by it was just a pile of wood chips so it was so Google Earth shows the tree and he says well it was dying that's not his decision even though he's the professional he's probably certified Arborist which I'm not um but he took down a burl trie and um through what you're talking about having hiring now a professional to do private property like the attorney said this man is a professional makes you kind of wonder what Mr hton has been doing for 13 years as no professional I ask that question every day and what was your answer I never got one you haven't got one yet in 13 years unpaid I've been doing this for the burrow right away and the park for 13 years and I do know what I'm talking about a little I'm sure you do but anyway um when he was talking about the prices for the ARB you're talking that's $75 to $100 per hour that's put that in there also um so contemplate finding the contract he is the pay professional as opposed to the property number um $500 is what it is right now so come up with what you want thank you thank you anyone else from the public like to address seeing no one motion to close the public session motion councilman second councilwoman kilberg all in favor against Lin have uh we haven't gotten into that process yet to discuss what we're going to do but um Michael you have any information you want to add to Lincoln there's not much we can really add yeah I guess I'll add the project limits are from uh Riverdale Road uh to Lakes side a okay that's really where we are so far we don't have much more uh uh yes thank you about that well you know we're excited to come down in March I hear you got a good turnout just I want to verify the time so everybody hears it again 10:00 at the high school we'll be marching down to hersfield turning around and coming back to the high school is that correct onsite registration start to 10: a.m. uh Opening Ceremonies will be around 11:00 we have two veterans speaking and then we will start walking just about 11:15 from the high school park and back okay and they don't they should register online but they don't have to that's correct you can register day off but make it easier on our registration folks uh we asking uh please pre-register okay thank you um Mr Hinton uh the second reading uh I really don't have much to add to that because that's the process that we have in place right now if you'd like to head that thank you mayor I just wanted to to note that uh new to this uh to this borrow recently all the ordinances are posted in advance on our website in the packet so the the public has advanced opportunity to review pending ordinances in the packet uh a few days before the meeting uh as a post a past practice where it was here at at time of meeting and posted in the newspaper obviously in accordance with State Statute but again all the ordinances are posted in the packet that are on our website in advance of the meeting so if they wanted to they could look that up find some information ask their question in an open session one or two about the concerns they have yes and also just wanted to add that you know while while it's the intent to make most of our decisions during Workshop some are made in close session so you just have to keep that in mind cor uh the contractor you bring up a very good point I don't know how to address that either I mean uh I don't know how we can enforce any enforcement on a contractor I don't know can we we'll we'll talk to the attorney yeah I mean you bring up a good point in that are they the expert I mean if somebody comes in and said yeah are they you know are they relying on their professional in other words when they say that tree is not in the right away obviously it's conspiracy obviously nobody knows if that's trees in the right away who lives there the professional maybe should be looking at a tax map in my opinion but doesn't have to but I guess that's something to talk about um so what you're telling us is the onsite for burough trees it's a $500 maximum uh fee um that's where I was but I have no issue with the Thousand too so that's fine with me okay motion to close the public session oh I did that um Mr you and I can't talk now I understand but the property owner order no from Mr surve you're right okay uh approach the floor anybody approach the floor nope oh I just have one question it's old business though is that okaying that up so I was just curious if you had a chance if the engineer had a chance to visit the uh the 527 Lincoln Avenue regarding the work that was done on the curb that left all I just wanted to bring that up and the second thing which is long overdue the flashing stop signs that was supposed to be put in for Lakeside remember we had discussed that it's a little bit old kind of told the Board of Ed and nothing's happened it's by close to a year right now are we talking about EV no well it's been about it's been it's been a it's been a while L Sid and Van mayor right L side and Van I think right yes yes and I know that that was mentioned that was something that was going to be done so those are the two sorry I know one is really old but thank you so for the flashing beacons uh and stop signs at the school uh it was included in the municipal budget which was only adopted uh in April so we'll get moving on that as quickly as possible and then for 527 Lincoln uh after the site visit we had for the flooding issue we went over to the property owner's house and uh we did note that there was debris and and and rocks on the property um we couldn't find necessarily evidence of buried asphalt but uh from what I'm told from the burough engineer is before they pave we're going to have the street sweeper come in we're going to clean up all the debris and then when we did the concrete work in the fall it really wasn't the best time to to soil and Seed so we're going to redo it uh this time around given its optimal conditions uh for growing season so we should see a area that's nicely cleaned up after the thank you Michael now we've had issues before where I think it was written into the agreements that they had to come back and see it in the spring is that still written into most of our agreements it depends on the bid specification because that's something we should do especially if they're doing for work cuz they even by my house the grass all died because he was late and then they did come back in Spring okay uh motion to adjourn motion second close session oh yeah CL session motion toour close session Mr Mayor you didn't explain the Sor give a break down of the police thank you thank you uh thank you mayor so the governing body body is considering uh some promotional uh advancements within the police department um and a restructuring plan that was approved in a Clos session okay okay motion to go to close session thanks Council kilberg second Council woman kilberg all in favor all right I'm just door's not open but in close session we discuss three personnel matters motion toour motion council president the line Cruz all in favor against