welcome to the pton Lakes planning board meeting of February 20 2024 the following is the agenda for the regular meeting of the Pompton Lakes planning board the meeting is to be held on the Municipal Building 25 Lennox Avenue on Tuesday February 2024 beginning at 7:30 p.m. formal advanced notice is required by njsa 10 Co 4-1 at SEC has been provided of this meeting at least 48 hours in advance of today giving the time date and location and to the extent know time the agenda of this meeting such notice stated that formal action may or may not be taken this meeting will be video recorded and will be rebroadcast for later viewing for the public the notice was one posted on the bulton board outside of the offices of the municipal clerk reserved for this and other similar announcements two provided to the Suburban Trends the newspaper designated by the council and the planting boards receive such notices and three file with the burrow clerk please stand for a pledge of allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all roll call please car yes Mr Simone here Mr Caro is absent Mr tro absent y Miss Michael present Mr aotto here Dr pendexter here Mr keing here Mr ular here Mr B Balby here mayor Sarah here and councilman venon here okay first item on the agenda tonight is reorganization in regular minutes from January 16 2024 have you all had a chance to review them and what is your pleasure I move to approve move to approve second second second any comments discussions Corrections all in favor signify by saying I any opposed any absent okay the only correspondence I have is an ordinance from the burrow of Bloomingdale in the county of Pake and state of New Jersey amending chapter 92 of their zoning Article 5 regulations governing certain uses section 92- 26 misscellaneous uses of the code of the burrow of Bloomingdale uh other than that there's no other correspondence right uh the resolution oh well okay we also got a copy of the resolutions from the burrow that was for the uh appointments of the professionals which would be the attorney the planner and the engineer um that just basically uh resolves what we did at the meeting last month so with that said uh we're going to go into an application tonight's meeting has one application on it and um for those who are not used to being here and we certainly appreciate you all coming um The Way We Run the meeting is that the applicant presents through his attorney and professionals whatever testimony and it is sworn testimony to the board on the application the application for tonight is PB 2303 Pi Holdings LLC 735 Hamburg Turnpike Pompton Lakes New Jersey block 6703 lot4 zone gwd so once they're complete with their application presentation then I go to my engineer to find out issues that may have had been unresolved that he has to comment on and then there will be an opportunity for the board members to ask questions and then there'll be an opportunity for the public to ask questions so I just uh would request that you hold any questions that you have until I open the meeting to the public session and then once that's closed and hopefully you'll get answers to that or we'll go into additional testimony as needed and then back to the board um for deliberation and or a decision or carry depending on where we are at the meeting at the time so that's just to give you kind of a handle on how we're going to do this and with that said the attorney for the applicant would you please come forward and begin your presentation evening Mr chairman members of the board for the record Bruce Whitaker from The Firm of McDonald Whitaker representing the applicant High Holdings LLC we have previously sent out notice to the public and have published it submitted copies of our Affidavit of service and proof of publication both the board as well as the council just want to place on the record that it's all in order and meet the requirements under M land use law thank you k you uh have the copies of the notices correct yes okay thank you I've also for the expediency for the board provided you with a uh list of exhibits that we are going to go through this evening as part of our presentation so we'll be referring to that list as we move forward P Holdings LLC is the owner of the property at 7 35 Hamburg Turnpike as well as 719 Hamburg Turnpike uh shown on your tax map is block 6703 Lots number four as well as lot 4.01 uh the property is located in the Gateway District zone it has an area of 69,7 28 ft it far exceeds the 10,000 ft requirement for this Zone uh the property has a width of 165 ft with 60 ft is required uh as you know know there's a two-story commercial building on the property already the applicant is not proposing any expansion of the building in any manner whatsoever uh the site exceeds all of the bu requirements and um it has a combined y side yard setback of 101.4 Ft where only 25 ft is required uh your board some years back I was not part of that application uh granted an approval to permit a construction of a 968 ft addition you have that resolution is attached to your the application that was submitted uh that work has been completed as far as the building expansion is concerned uh you granted certain variances with that uh application and with that approval uh those Varian would remain in effect although we would have a modification as it pertains to the parking aspect which you will hear tonight uh will be an improvement over what you've been previously what you previously approved um when the construction was started um and you'll hear the testimony this evening the county of C through their land use board their planning board required substantial changes to the uh subsurface uh storm water detention system and it required it to be located to the rear of the site which is contrary to what was on the plans that were approved by this board um this would result in the cutting and excavation into the slope so the applicant moved ahead and you'll hear testimony this evening proceeded with permitting uh but was working on the plan that the county approved but not the plan that this board approved and those of you who' been to the site recognized that they moved ahead with that and then it was determined and found that the plans that you approved here and the County planning board approval plans they did not match so work was halted at that point and so what the applicant is seeking this evening is an amended site plan approval to proceed and continue with the work that was started to basically meet all of the requirements and approval that were granted by the County planning board I think by the purpose of our meeting here tonight not only to receive a med site plan approval but I believe uh you will see from the engineering uh testimony that we are going to provide that overall the plan that's being proposed will from a planning perspective uh be substantially better than the plan that was originally approved by the board not that the board did anything wrong but the board granted some variances uh that at this point can be modified for instance with parking to increase the parking on the site and we know anytime we can take a non-conformity which is what happened when there was variance relief granted for the parking and we can reduce or eliminate a non-conforming from a planning perspective that's a positive aspect so the applicant is before you this evening for an amended site plan we are not changing any of the variances that you previously granted except we will be modifying uh the parking variance uh which is something that um at this point our engineer will testify to uh We've made a request for certain waivers they're spelled out and listed in the cers engineering report but basically pertains to not providing some information on the plans because quite frankly they're not relevant uh we're not showing building building elevations or utility plan or the service letter from the utilities or location of utilities only because we're not doing anything to the building uh the building is there and there is no modification to the building we are requesting certain new variants relief and that pertains to lot coverage it pertains to constructing this wall in the restricted slope area and it pertains to um uh putting a wall that is more than 4 ft in height into that area and also as it pertains to the location of the parking uh those variances will all be explained during the course of our presentation unless there's any uh questions of me I would call our first witness Douglas dittle uh he is our site engineer uh mcnali engineering was the uh Engineers that originally prepared the plans that were here before uh they're very cognizant obviously of the project and then I also have uh an engineer here that is here specifically as an engineer to describe and and uh determine tell tell you how the wall is constructed um and that is their expertise in wall construction of this nature I have one question for you certainly so we all understand where we're going there was approval it changed when the county did their review and now you're asking for some additional changes depending on you know what you present tonight my question for you is is the county approval drawing whatever they approved that allowed you to do what you did available here tonight we have it as part and Mr do little will explain that to you okay so we don't have that in our package or it's part of that he's going to testify to show you that what the county approved is basically what is on the plan this evening with a modification to that with the park okay I just want to make sure that the board understands and the residents as well the difference between what was approved here what what what was changed as a result of the county and what might be requested as a result of the county that is the purpose of my presentation perfect thank you thank you any other questions [Music] go please raise your right hand state your name spell your last Douglas w d d o o l i TT L do you SAR orir the testimony you'll give this evening before this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God thank you just to do little would you give the board and members of the public the benefit of your education and professional background yeah I'm a licensed professional engineer Lance and planner in the state of New Jersey I've been practicing engineering and land surveying and planning in northern New Jersey for about 4 45 years I'm a graduate of NJIT with a degree in civil engineering um and again can qualified in front of numerous boards I also was qualified on the prior approval on this and you've been qualified prior on this particular application and nothing has changed uh with your credentials since the last time you qualified that's correct I'd ask that he'd be qualified as an expert witness in the field of civil engineering and on that basis be able to provide a expert's opinion in that field so noted thank you very much Mr dittle you are very aware of this uh property and you were involved with the uh initial uh application and the approval before this board yes what I'd like you to do is to take us through uh the history of what occurred as far as the approval process is concerned and then to explain what is now being proposed uh based on the county approval and compare the one to the other Yep this was in front of this board uh for approval back in 2018 I have a copy of the resolution uh number 17- of the DAT is uh sure if that's 1104 2018 and the resolution basically approved the plan that was submitted to this board uh dated 7717 last Revis to 25 2018 which is referred to in the resolution that plan B basically did not have any retention storage or detention at the time in front of this board we weren't adding any increase in coverage at the time we didn't feel we were going to need to have to put any in and then when we got this board's approval we went to the county and wrestled back and forth with them till we got their unconditional approval on August 29th 2019 Mr dou will I show you a letter dated August 29th 2019 that states in part um that that the uh site plan application before the planning board was unconditionally approved is that correct that is correct if I could just grab my I have that as A1 as your exhibits and any drawings that he refers to if they're on they're all referenced in your on your list I just need to know which ones he's looking at exactly we'll go through them I'm sorry what was it dat that approval uh August 29 2019 [Music] thank this is County approval which came after your board approval which reers for the county letter what we had to do for them was orally drawing drawing number please yes hold on a second let me give you one of these Doug and you can this and then you can put on the record which exhibit it [Music] is we have here can we get the pictures on the other no just that's the prior one it may not be on that list yeah not this computer okay so let's make this exhibit a13 do you have copies I can give the board I have one extra copy I can give to the board you mark that according me please what does this plan for the record what does this plan depict Mr to do little this was submitted to the county for approval based on that letter um and what the county required us to do we had had originally two seet pits in the front when we came to this board we removed them we were putting on Underground retention system in the back of the property behind the existing curve line at that time so it cut into the bottom of that slope uh a little bit and then at that time we all show so parking back here which is depicted on the new plan today now that reversal if you will a change I should say modification to the plan that was prated and required by the county yes and that was on the basis of that August 2019 letter yes and what they made us do was basically they said no you have be ground all your impervious coverage we want it stored on the property we don't want to just give you any small increases or the rree of the parula so this new system that went on in on the plan up on your projector there uh wind up having a substantially larger detention system it's about 50 times 50% bigger than the one on this plan today and what we basically did the same thing here we wind up originally proposing the system to the rear we hit rock in here so the system got flipped in on the existing parking lot area which is on the new plan connect we put uh uh Street drains out in the front here collect this water take it to the back and store it in here and there's a series of catch faes along between the two curb lines where the existing new parking is going and all that water is stored in the retention system the pavement in the back here is Forest pavement so that leads us down to a perc it percolates into a drain system underne the payment and that also gets into the new drainage system now on the basis of what was approved by the board originally and then what was approved by the county of Pake and required by the county of Pake is the new drainage system that was proposed by the county of Pake a better system overall from a drainage perspective than what was approved here at the board yes and why is that because the system is substantially larger and we're taking all the run off from this point from Hamburg turn fight back and running that into our ption system that's destroy the entire thing on site now on the basis of what the county fa uh required you to do uh you just testified that there was another modification made from the county of the sakes approval uh did the gr system even get larger than what they wanted he got larger for the plan that we've submitted today and how much larger would that be rough 50% so the dra system being proposed now is 50% greater than the one that was even required by the county plan board yes that's correct and if the say County Planning board's drainage system was an improvement over what was improved here the local that's correct um you're very familiar with storm water management ordinances and statutes that currently exist yes some of the new regulations that came down this past uh last year yeah your testimony that all of those requirements of the storm water management ordinances are met with the this particular uh plan yes they are and we prepared and submit the R calculation report storm water management report based on the uh D requirements under the national resource conservation Services she's trying to do that right now and that's what's been marked as A7 the storm water management report dated 12623 yes okay and you also it's one of the requirements under um your storm water management uh Provisions is to have an operating agreement also and that's part of that that is correct and that operating man hold on SEC Mr Whitaker we're having some difficulties here turn that off look like we're going to watch a show oh you got it there [Music] okay we have a couple ghosts in our assist apparently you got more okay thank you you're welcome thanks K so just to it's not me just to go back again on that last question uh the storo management um report that you presented dated 12623 also accompanied with that is the operation manual that's required is that correct that's correct based on the D requirements under best management practices so originally you were here and parking was approved and the parking uh variant was granted to permit 55 spaces when 73 were required isn't that correct that is correct okay what is now being proposed as far as the parking aspect what concerned Now by adding that parking in the rear we've increased the parking spaces to 69 we're for deficient instead of at 55 and that would make us I believe it's 14 defici so we have 69 proposed yes and 73 required yes so we would be four short yes okay um with the parking that you're proposing you did not show any EV parking isn't that correct that is correct so it would be correct under the new uh statute and ordinances that are required if we were to add four parking four EV stations to this uh which is still under the 10% requirement uh at that point we would 4 plus the 69 never let a lawyer do math but 4 plus the 69 would give you 73 and then you would have conforming parking is that correct that's correct yes now I'd like you just walk us through the plan and show where that parking is [Music] located this line AC course the Shaded area is where the existing pavment ended in 2018 where had ended before they put the drainage system in this is the new pavement and the new parking we're adding 21 parking spaces in here it's going to be accessed through a two-way directional traffic flow to here and then it's going to go in away from the slope behind it the drainage system will be proposed in on where the old pavement was which has already been installed your R number your on by the way that would be 82 82 please just please note that as you go through a yes I'm sorry the uh parking stalls aisle widths Etc are code compliant yes they are and on the basis of that with the installation of the AVS we would be conforming from parking and we would eliminate the variance previously granted [Music] yes take us through the other improvements that are being proposed we would start out lighting yep we have a lighting detail sheet and I'll just give you number on that that would be A6 yeah on if you start under the new construction new parking lot we've got four lights on spotlights with holes in the new proposed parking area facing away from the uh rear property line or the residential area and our building then the rest of the lighting there's a little heavier Lighting on the uh Southeast side because the parking lot's a little wider so we have three on the side two on the rear and then we got smaller lighting cuz it's narrower on the north we have three lights so basically the entire parking lot has been bu up bit up and it's it could be shielded from any residence or any area problem everything you're familiar with the lighting ordinances in the municipality is that correct yes well this uh the isometrics here meet all the requirements under the guidelines and requirements of the local ordinance yes and they're on the plan um next uh we recognize that um we have an intrusion into the slope of the rear we set up a set of plans um pertaining to existing conditions and then settlement soil and erosion A3 and A4 uh and A5 which is the slope plan I'd like you recognizing we have an engineer to testify as to the Integrity of the wall proposed but I would like you from a site perspective to walk us through what is being proposed as far as the construction or the installation of the wall yeah the brown area is the steep slope area variance I believe it's 9761 s ft uh that's cutting into the slope the slope is mostly rock as a matter of fact when we started to put the drainage system back in here that's why we flipped it over and put it in here because it was substantially less rock over here um so we decided to put this wall in here it f B is Hamburg Turn Pike very minimal Parts the front of the wall can be seen from either end the back long length of the wall can't be seen from up at the top because it's facing Hamburg Turnpike and I think it'll be an aesthetically pleasing wall when the engineer testifies over go through that so you talked that you started and commenced the walk so just explain what was done and what's the stages right now uh this had been Rock hammered out in here so that we can get this down the grade to a subgrade for the parking lot and the asphalt and drain system underneath that and then footings have been started for the wall that's in there today what would be the maximum height of this wall the maximum height starts at zero on each end here down here goes up to about 18 ft then it drops down to an ad about 15 along the back now you are cognizant of wall construction cognizant of soil conditions as part of your uh engineering expertise yes i' like you to just to give us an overview of the wall location the soil conditions there and how the the wall and the drainage pattern will fit on this from this PL okay the wall itself is sitting on probably I didn't actually see get to SC but it's going to sit on a a foundation on top of the shot Rock the Trap Rock that's in here so it's going to have a very good foundation when it goes in and it's install I believe sesi the end design Engineers have been doing all the inspections on it they can give you more details there's a substantial drainage uh uh drain behind the wall with subst st through the surface and the grin behind the wall does not come up all the way to the top of the wall so if anything shears from up here either rock or or soil there's very little over bird it'll fall behind the wall we are posing a fence on top of this we didn't detail it yet I believe a chain link fence 4ot high would probably be the rest Best Fence to put up there that drainage system is connected to the underground drainage system for the per pavement and also gets into our retention system so all the water coming off this hill is also going into here so the water that runs off the hill now before even the wall was started that just ran and sheeted down towards Hur turn power correct that's correct along with all our black and now at this point with what this design is uh showing uh you're now going to capture that and put it into a drainage facility yes and all that drainage that's being proposed also meets all storm water management requirements yes um beyond that um concern always is soil erosion when something like this is being constructed just take us to through what the soil erosion plan is recognizing that um the county also has uh a commission that's going to have to review and approve this correct Y and we have not submitted to them but we anticipate and no we haven't and you know what their rules and guidelines are yes and you'll be able to meet them yes show us what you this is basic our storm drains which will have filters on them we've got details we've got stock pile areas on here for soil it's not totally complete yet but it will be when it goes into Burg County uh theate County correct here's the stock pile here there'll be ample uh traffic uh PS for construction going in off the site they'll probably if not be the rear they'll use the parking lot and they'll have to maintain it so by the time any veh gets out the Hur the wheels are virtually clean now you've observed the site correct yes and you recognize that there's been some construction that's already occurred yes and on the basis of your over seeing this project in part based on making these observations and recognizing we've had a an abundance of rain this past year and U through the winter uh have you observed any problems as it pertains to erosion recognizing it's still under construction right now I have not been there to observe I have not heard from any of the engineers orct contractors or owners as to any issues and it's your professional opinion that based upon what is being proposed here we have somebody talk about the structural Integrity but as far as what's being proposed here that the wall will function will not create any problems from a soil erosion standpoint and the drainage will be functioning properly correct yes and the drainage as proposed is far better than what existed even with before the uh the cut was made into the slope yes just walk us through the variances that we are now [Music] question so can see that the additional and new variances are the parking spaces from 73 to 6 from to 69 where we're for deficient not counting the RV the uh EV parking spaces the lot coverage where we need to be at 50% will now be at 6044 uh restricted slope area any slope having a grade of 15% or more will be the 900 9,761 ft which was the brown area I expressed and surface parking areas could be set back at least 4T from the side or rear property line zero that was a gr variance it was cramped prior it's on the right hand side of the building as you uh standing Hamburg Turnpike and that's existing black top and curve there today and then we're also construction of the retaining wall exceeds 6 ft in height where I said 15 to 18 and it's over 100 ft long it's about 345 ft long and we're also proposing parking to be installed in the restricted slope area correct yes that's correct and that's part and parcel with where the parking lot is proposed with this wall yes Mr Whitaker I have a question Mr MCD the the from mck he's more I'm close there you go the Wall height you've mentioned 15 to 18 ft Y is what would the general grade be behind the wall compared to the top of the wall in other words is it depressed down 1 foot 2 feet right I'm not I don't remember the exact figure the the design engineer for the wall can answer that question for okay and the existing grades are shown on the drawing that uh has the coloring on it y the proposed grades are on that are they drawing as well uh I don't know if they're on the steep slope drawing but they are on the site plan okay for close rates yes okay thank you is it okay I have nothing further this time this witness the Integrity of the wall and how it's being constructed will be from our next engineer okay the members of the board have questions right now for this part of the application that's been discussed um yeah can can you tell me it cuz it seems to go back and forth how much has been completed or how has been not completed for the wall the foundations are in or the drainage has gone in as far as the retention area here I don't believe the catch basins have all been finished and the same thing would be uh drains out in the font believe there rain connected the wall has been EX ated out by Rock hammering because it's a hard trap dense Trap Rock uh and they wanted to limit the amount of uh damage that they would do on any surrounding properties and again this other engineer will get into that and then the base of this wall and Foundation has entirely been installed with the stone and and pipe drain behind it below grave and that will connect to the gring system that's it beyond that that's where they are right now before they got stuck anyone else on the board have a question yeah I all right so I like to improve drainage that's a big plus uh so I just want to verify that we're going to handle the problems which was previous we just said there there was a lot of water running off the mountain through a pipe and we don't know where that was coming from but there was water coming out that would be addressed 100% And then any of that overflow that was running through that before you did the drainage which was running on the hord Turn Pike that will completely stop also now I'm not talking flood events just normal rain normal rain that would be taken care of there will be no more water running off the site corre that's what the uh drains are down here by the agress and the AR then they and they go from Curb to curb so the water will be 100% picked [Music] up okay thank you Mr D thank you next this I'm going to have back today yeah [Music] yeah please raise your right hand state your name and spell your last Ahmad badi last name b a g h d a d y do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give this evening before this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing about the truth to help you got I think I have a like you to give the members of the public um your background uh educational and professional background uh I'm a professional licensed engineer with 20 years of experience in GE Technical and uh G Structural Engineering for retaining worldall design uh I have my uh PhD from University of Illinois in civil engineering and my masters as well uh I've been in the industry for 20 years working mostly in New York are area New York and New Jersey area so would it be correct to say that your specific area of expertise is in civil engineering the design and construction of retaining walls correct and you are uh employed by a company known as cesi SEI Consulting Engineers correct and correct to say they are in the business of Performing um geotechnical and civil engineering work for the construction of such walls as is been proposed here yes you are familiar with this site yes and you are familiar with the plans that have been submitted um by cesi in connection with this yes so what I'd like you to do is to explain to the board members of the public what is being proposed from the standpoint of the type of wall it is the material that's being used and the construction technique that is employed yes so uh I'm the DU structural engineer responsible for the retaining wall design and the construction of it the super supervision of the construction of the retaining wall the retaining wall is about 18 ft high at the most it's a large block segmented wall That's placed one4 at a time so each block is about 16 in high and it's placed one on top of each other the thickness of the wall the width of the wall is about varies from 96 in to 102 in and it's stacked one on top of each other it's back fi behind it between the rock surface which is Mist Rock very solid kind of rock and the each block is concrete block that's place and and you you back fi behind it and compact with clean Stone now you've had the opportunity to review the drainage plans that Mr uh dle has testified to uh and you looked at that drainage plan in connection with the um design and eventual proposed construction of this wall is that correct yes does that drainage design meet the specifications for the wall construction that's C yes uh in connection with this type of wall um how many of these type of walls have you overseen as an engineer with sesi engineer about 20 and have there been any problems with any type of walls built of this type of nature no um give me the sequence of what's done from your company uh as the wall is being constructed they're onsite inspections you've been to the site know this site yes okay explain to the board and members of the public uh the daily routine of how this wall is constructed and the oversight that comes from sesi engineer so uh we did we prepared construction drawings for these retaining wall we make uh we have a daily field engineer that on site during the construction of this wall we make sure that he makes sure that the size of the blocks are correct the compaction of the soil behind it is correct the uh the level of the wall is correct the number of courses uh is correct and uh and that's it so you have an onsite every day that it's being done there's an on-site engineer uh inspecting this and they also create a log do they not of information pertaining to this yeah they prepare a daily feed report and submit it to us to the PMs to review and then we submit it to um ownership and besides submitting to ownership it's basically that a municipal engineer requires a wall certification and that's part of what your assignment is correct um the um materal material that's out there the wall that you've seen chipped away Etc does this wall that's being constructed now fit within the parameters of what's going to be behind it correct and um from the standpoint of civil engineering standpoint and the geological information you provided you it's your opinion that this wall will be able to withstand um the uh rain and and and uh withhold the the wall the the soil behind it and function properly correct you've provided a um geotechnical report which we've made part of our application and you also provided a report dated January 12th 2024 is that correct yes and that has been prepared by uh your organization cesi Consulting engineer yes that would be A10 and A9 and your plans are are A8 just for the record I'm going to direct your attention to this report dated January 12th 2024 you your organization provided an opinion um an evaluation of recommendations I'd like you to just Place go through that and place it on the [Music] record exactly this you've stated in this report that you have created and and provided uh and done test fits is that correct yes and from a soil and Foundation support standpoint this site can be considered good to excellent for providing sa satisfactory support for the construction of the proposed retaining wall yes um you've stated that the Bedrock encountered at the bottom of the excavation and the compacted grandular fill as indicated on the retaining wall plans will provide allowable bearing capacity of 6,000 psf yes um you also confirmed that groundwater is not anticipated to be encountered during the mass construction but trapped seid should anticipated and if groundwater or storm water seage is encountered that uh some pumps have to be work used and installed below grade to allow for the dewatering of the excavation and that's your opinion yes and in connection with that you've also recommended filter fabric um that may be necessary uh uh above and below the clean uh Stone to prevent migration of of uh fines yes uh you finally sayate that the recommendations presented in the letter and retaining W plans are based upon the assumption that the retaining wall preparation procedures and construction will be done under engineering observations yes it'll be done by qualified geotechnical Engineers yes and those geotechnical Engineers are coming from uh CC yesi s SEI and at the same time you stated that um the inspector should provide full-time observations of the proposed construction yes and you just testified that's what's going to occur yes and we are stipulating that will occur if the board were to Grant approval thank you that's not all I have okay I have um couple of general questions the the wall there's no um kind of visual uh appearance of the wall anywhere that I could see it just shows a bunch of blocks so as far as a photo for example of a wall completed like this you don't have that with you I don't have it right now but we can provide it okay I'd like to see um what that wall is going to look like from the perspective of himber Turnpike that's appearance only okay secondly on the way the wall is constructed it does have a batter to it and you have the question on one of your drawings which which is the calculations for 735 hurg Turn Pipe which is I think it's A9 [Music] 3423 can you can can you st sure what it shows is a section through the wall with the various depth of the blocks yes and then there's a gray area behind that a yellow area behind that and an orange line that runs diagonally through the site it would be the back of the first page of that letter looks like this yeah oh yeah yeah I got what you're saying and it appears on several of the pages I guess depending on where the where the area is is taken from the cross-section mhm so is the gray area that's behind the wall is that a pre-excavation area like where is the right now if I went out there where would the existing slope as it is right now show on this drawing is it the Orange Line the gray line or just uh it's it's the The Gray Line okay so what we're showing on this for everyone that could be looking at it is there's a u a series of blocks that vary in depth and they have a gray line that runs at a fairly steep angle to the existing surface and you're showing that the existing wall matches the existing surface top of the wall it's it's one block be so if you look at the construction drawing it's one block under it one course of 16 in under it but in the design this is the extreme case so that's why we we're designing on this okay and then the area behind that that's yellow would be the existing ground as it is today right and the orange slope Line Orange slope line is the line of failure like failure okay so like a critical path area Okay so if that was sand it would be 45 yes got okay so you're showing that the wall is well beyond that and you're showing that the area behind it is filled with the gray stone that gray area is Stone it's it's it's yeah and the hatched Brown Behind the upper wall segments to the gray area it's that came this what are these little things behind the block wall see right here uh this is just same back fit in material no nothing nothing different there's no differential between those two so that's gray gray color in Crush right to the fa back face of the wall yes okay I just wanted to make sure I understood what the drawing was representing and the reason for the photograph is because obviously we don't want anything ugly looking facing H turnpik and then the last question I have for you preliminarily until the rest of the board gets on this because you're putting so much Stone behind the wall mhm that has to be compacted I assume yes vibratory right okay I'd like to know your opinion of the effect of the vibrations from compacting the area behind the wall M on the rock face and on the ground above it minimal Min almost no no effect at all it's a very Solid Rock we we're compacting with with not extremely heavy machinery you uh we took into account the Earth pressure that this soil would would put on on the retaining wall itself so the rock we're assuming also the rock is decomposed Rock in in the design so it's it's not not the case it's actually much more it's solid it's been standing for a very long time right now and then the the stone when it's compacted and putting pressure on on the retaining wall blocks we we took this into account as well okay so people that live above that would not have to worry about vibrations getting to their buil their facilities no okay do you have a way to monitor that where someone could set up a u we can particle velocity something or other that will determine that we we can put seism of graphs if if if if if needed if you asked for it yeah we can put uh vibration monitors to to make sure that after certain threshold we have to stop and look at it one more time okay I'm going to ask our engineer to comment on that but my offhand guess would be I'd want to be assured that what you're doing won't aggravate anything and you know you're saying that it should not but it would be nice to know that it did not that would be to your benefit as well yeah that that's simple enough we can put we can we we are as an inspector we we can put vibration monitors from our office on the Rock faces and if we hit certain threshold that we can agree on we can revisit the compaction procedure all right we'll have my engineer address that okay that's all I have we would stipulate to that thank you uh any other members from the board have questions about what's been presented so far the the stone Behind the Walls could be clean crushed or QP cuz there's drainage on at the bottom of okay so that'll allow migration of water beneath that um the the the wall itself the blocks um are there the design do they have keyed Parts where that they interlock yeah there's a Groove and something and it's it's unimportant but the rock behind it is basalt it's not mik aest it's still hard on the wrong side of the RAM for like this anyway okay um oh sorry go ahead so the block is just bearing wa there rebar in there there's no no there's no rebar Mr chairman just Why did why is it 18t for the Wall height are you trying to why is it 18t this is based on the existing grade mhm and and how much are we cutting into the hill okay so that's that's that's where we got the okay and cutting has been done yes right so what um is there any concern with the current grate that it is at now with the war with at8 no no and you mentioned about the type of rock I miss the uh pip but can you explain what the difference is like why is that um a good rock you solid rock it's a solid rock you don't see uh much fissures into it there's not much jointing it's been standing for almost a year right now and uh like some other rocks like sandstones for example it get deteriorates with with time but this kind of rock do it's solid okay and then just one other question I think May or might be for you when you look at that property just above where they excavated there looks like a historic rock wall that's that goes along that that was right and that's what my question is is there any concern with that property there all of a sudden again you're going to put seismic but all of sudden this thing goes all sudden this rock wall starts tumbling down so I guess my question is from the seismic if you're going to be setting things up I know it's going to be up for the residents up there too but you going to have a closer I'll call it endangerment if all of a sudden things start coming down yeah uh the we already excavated this area by hammering this area and the wall is standing yeah nothing happened we can again we can put vibration monitors if needed to just as an extra measure to make sure okay thank you I just got a general question and and I don't care who answers it how much space from the top of the wall to the back property is there anybody have that answer yes can do [Music] that uh the closest point be here which is about 30 ft at the closest point on the that's the Northerly end and that's the closest that's the closest and then it gets substantially farther away down here because the property line projects farther so we're still pretty far away how does it expand out from the 30 what does it go to over here the other R it's about 115 and that wall you talked about is still here the upper wall the existing wall there prior to us stting that's still here um the drawing and while you're there what's the nearest structure to that corner of wall a jording structure anything um not not on Hamburg on the upper par this is so far back I was there on Thursday and this is more than 50 ft higher and it's substantially way back there's a unit over here that's way far away as well I would say well over 50 ft from the property line as well okay thanks so there's it's not on top of it in anyway Mr whiter anything else you want that's all we have at this point with this witness okay is there any other witness that would conclude our presentation at this time okay I'm going to ask Mr O'Brien it's our engineer to go over the letter that he's written and let us know what's been satisfied what's not been satisfied and um what else we need yes we have a response letter two big letters oh perfect so that's was what I was going to say suggest uh we drafted a letter dated February 1st part of this would work well if the applicant would submit to us a point BYO response back to us on what was done what's left to do what's new being submitted and then we can take that not to and I just got it so um we'll review that uh there are items that we talk about in the in our report that either was not addressed still needed to be submitted uh we were a little vague on and just pled stuff out so for example you brought up their parking tonight and you're adding the EV stations are you adding them or are you not adding them if you are adding them where are you looking to put them um stuff like that so we can show you where we would put them and if as a part of the approval you wanted these four EVS they would then the variance for parking would go away okay all right so that would be up to the board if we got to know where but go ahead yeah so it would require an amendment to what you have yes we' have to revise the plan yes we' have to modify the plan for that so then with the Amendments that happen here at this board and let's say that the board does approve whatever concept that you put in as an amendment you would have to go back to the County planning board for approval we don't believe so because we've built what the county wanted and we've seeded what the county B so as long as this doesn't add for example impervious coverage or effect drainage they shouldn't have you're working with in the compound exactly in fact that you heard from the testimony the drainage they wanted and what we proposed and have installed is 50% greater than what they wanted okay um getting to the drainage and you spoke about the drainage we'll review that in detail as well but one of the aspects of it that we were concerned with part of your drainage is on the neighboring property owned by the same owned by the samean same I I I revised our application to show loock 4.01 okay so it's the same owner that's tied to it so it be tied to it so then your onm manual would have to state that property as well exactly and you had made a suggestion your report about an easan add to that and we would certainly make that that's not a problem um uh you talked about the uh Soil Conservation submitt you haven't submitted yet when you do and if when you do get approval we'll need a copy of that just to keep it um and then we'll tie it to the approved plans so everyone's on the same page um there's a dumpster enclosure with structural footings that we have concerned with that's in the detention area um I advise you to look into it we gave you some grades in the review letter and we're 2 ft above it okay and it's no different than a tra Trail driving over basically and it has no load on it good well you got in the letter so that that that was a concern that we had uh the retaining walls um we'll need the uh calculations for that um from a general perspective with the retaining wall is it the way you designed it is a simple batter 0 to 18 ft High going back or are you looking up 56 F feet step back up 5 six ft you're just going straight okay so just so the board understands no step back it's a batter going straight up 15 18t based on the picture that you passed around that grayish block so that that's what's being look like we that's that's not available to the public I have a little I don't so my suggestion for the for the draining sorry the retaining wall calculations also submit pictures of a proposed location of what it looks like so that everyone who who wants availability to review this maybe take a look at it see here's the Cs and here's what the finished product could look like M okay all right um getting back to the retaining walls uh you're going to have to what if this does get approved as amended you have to submit the building department approval as well so uh they'll have the record drawings on file um excuse me and then also for the inspection reports um I I would suggest that you you retain copies for yourself but also put copies in for the planning board so that we have a copy that we get tie to everything at at least at a minimum the signed off certification in that retaining wall as well as we talked about it before the detention Basin with onm manual okay we should tie the onm manual and for those in the public who aren't aware on m stands for uh operation and maintenance of the storm water system uh that should be tied to the deed and since you're since you have it on the neighboring property as well 4.01 it should be tied to that deed as well so just make sure it's tied I've done that with other projects I know and we have it on file so that when you wind up pulling the deed and someone comes in 15 years from now and buying the property the maintenance manual is tied to that deed so they understand that what they have to do to maintain the drainage system underneath how they have to maintain the um the POR asphalt patment system uh as your engineers will talk about it or discuss with the with the owners you know the issue with course asphal it's a good thing for drainage purposes but if it's not maintained all the fines that are there to allow water to drain vertically clog up and it just turns into a normal very expensive parking lot at that point so it's important to do the maintenance that's required to keep that area Clean and Free of debris so that water can actually drain ver if it doesn't it just clogs up and it's it's a it's like a sponge that it just filled with dirt and grind it doesn't work and that's my concern that you can help us answer this what's our protection that that doesn't happen and water then comes back down on ter I agree so that so the protection with that mayor is that this is a private development site you have have um your storm water management regulations that are in place and on a yearly basis the well now it's the applicant but at the time it'll be the owner of the site they'll have to submit maintenance records to the town so that you keep it so that when when the town does their own reporting to DDP on a yearly basis they can say this private entity did their maintenance for the year so that's the important thing um um you know I I would also say that in the resolution if this is approved that we put a stipulation in there that the maintenance records have to be submitted to the town by December 1st of every year and that is an obligation just so everyone's on the same page it's filed with the deed and it runs with the land so if this owner uh sells the property when the title search is done the new owner will see what their responsibilities are so it's not something that uh gets eliminated when there's a change of ownership it it helps with the um well it's protecting the the town for all the reasonings for your own Reporting System but it also makes sure that the drainage system that's very detailed and will handle everything coming off Hamburg Turnpike stays viable and doesn't collapse under its own um negligence so by by maintaining it it's a it's a good feature to have and that's also a good point because should that become a problem not that it will we still have five catch bases along that CB line that collect any overflow and gets it into the retention system that's in the ground that would nearly help maintain the detension system in your ground by getting less of three it's your basically it's a double kill belts and suspenders yes so just in case something if one place fails the other place is picking it up Carl I didn't look at the construction of the pavement detail but is the um appropriate depth of clean Stone that'll drain and appropriate depth of asphalt cuz it's typically less strength than that asphalt is it appropriate for what the site is showing yeah so we're going to dive into that with the drainage review with everything just like how we dive into it with the Geotech review for the for the retaining wall we had stipulations in this um that if the board wants to move for that we would perform that review in my opinion um I would say we'll do that review at this point once we have all the items that are that we're missing from the applicants engineers and we can systematically go through those reviews and give the thumbs up or thumbs down for whatever and if there's something additional that we're we're we need or that's missing we could always contact the applicance engineers and say look you submitted this but I also need that um as long as the board of the applicant gives us free range to have those conversations I have no problem with it we've dealt with with's office plenty of times um you know it works fine that way okay uh and then um the the lights um so yes we have photometrics on there but there's also uh the uh lighting calculations that are typical that goes with that so we'll need the lighting calculations with that so we'll work with M's office to make sure that's okay those are the big picture items with everything uh like I said we just received right now the the point by point we'll review that anything that's um not provided or submitted yet will reach out to the engineer and this way we can get it done um my suggestion would be if the board is not voting on this for tonight's meeting and uh just because there's open items uh maybe it gets tabled until the next meeting so it gives us time to do the due diligence and reviews on the certain items if there's stuff that's missing it gives the applicant time to get us that by the time you have your next meeting and then we can reconvene at that point that's one option uh the other option would be if the applicant wants to move forward with a vote at this time it would be a vote with conditions although there probably be a lot of conditions on it that we would get approved um I'm not the applicant so I don't want to speak for it gives a couple of scenarios there but those are basically the two options so our our preference would be an approval with conditions because the site is open and ready for development we started the project we stopped when we saw that there was a error in what was approved and what permited was and rather than to leave this open any longer we would like to be able to move ahead so we recognize you wouldn't have a resolution till the next meeting but then at least uh that's March at least in March we could get started whether permitting to finish it off I've been told by our Engineers that project could be done between 8 to 12 weeks in total so we'd like to get it done as soon as possible so that there you know so that uh the drainage can be finalized it's important important when springtime yeah if we have a normal spring it's been kind of crazy year it has been all right anything else that's all I have at this time okay um one last chance for now just for board remember before I go to public uh yeah I've got a question I think it probably goes to uh Mr D you talked about the retention system at the rear of the property where does the outfall of surface water from the retention system go does that perate there is no there's no direct overclock it would if it built up high enough wind up coming after it drains by the street that would be only a very severe situation yeah but it rains it rains it rains it fills up Y and when it fills up it reaches an outflow yeah so and that outflow is that regulated one of the strip rins out of the front you can come out the lower twoo right and does that come out to you know gallon per minute or 100 gallons per minute or one Gall per minut based on the r right so there's no regulation if there a a heavy rainfall event when the tank is already full yep then you're not limiting the discharge there's no regulation for the over that's why we've gone and made this 50% bigger than required right I got where you're going after what is the design St 100 all right so designed for 100e an event which in this area is 8.7 I think it's about 8 8 and 8 and2 to 9 in over a 24hour period so that system should be able to handle an 8 and 1 12 in Rain event over a one day period the last one we had like that was what the heck was it no um a few years ago in September August 31st September 1st I read I so that that was a last rain event to that substantial measure yeah but the point of the 100 Year flot event doesn't mean it's 100 years before it happens again it's just a level comp so it could happen tomorrow or you could have 300E storm events back to back to back in G the way a 100e storm event is it's the chances of that happening in that given day it's not one storm every 100 years and you have one storm out of 100 that's what it would be so so would you not want to attenuate the uh the water coming out in that event so the restrictions by the different agencies that review everything in this case soal conservation uh it's all regulated by New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection their requirements are that 100e formula so you design to that standard really and then you back off from there now that and then the the town has your ordinances that mimic the language there as well so your ordinances are in line with the states so you know designing your drainage system for that 100y year event is the norm on how you design that stuff um the relief for this is as as uh just jul said is you know the blowoff Val let's call it is coming out of um the trench streams that's what it is worst case scenario on stuff is if you don't have a blowoff valve and it's all underground water's going to find the path to Le res blow something out yeah so you don't have that case here so in the event of the 100-year storm event it will discharge on low turn by yes yeah at that point everybody's getting in a boat and paddling away but that's not and I I don't want to speak for the applicant but that's not just this application that's everywhere yet now with every stor but during its normal operation it percolates into the ground correct yeah and that's something that we'll also review as a perk results of the soil to make sure that that soil is amable to drainage that's necessary for the perk into to the ground right if it's a clay soil let's say that's the case that's not good soil you don't want it to per so there there is certain s work so so Mr D have you done the percolation tests we have not we will do them we have no wish for that right right so we as it stands we don't know whether it works or not what standard condition design is always culation tests most approval to make sure that it's add condition of approval and if it's not then they have to replace materials or change the design exactly okay thanks Steve anyone else okay um you're done I'm going to ask uh you could vacate the table for a moment you you can stay there Mr whiter I I just meant so that we have a place for someone to sit okay so when I open the meeting for the public what I'd like you to do is is um if you want to be I want to address this you can ask any questions you want to at this point I'm not looking for statements or opinions but trying to get clarifications of questions you have so just raise your hand I'll call you up when you come up here have a seat relax just give us your name and your address and then go ahead and ask your questions and whoever the relevant person that can answer that we'll answer that for you um motion to open for public make the motion okay we have a motion in a second uh all in favor any opposed okay so we are open for public comments please questions please raise your hand and and come on up Sir in the back hi my name is Lis bini I live at 214 Ridge Drive and sub falls behind the construction that's going on and I have a a question about um when the work began to satisfy the requirements of the county to go back further uh to satisfy the drainage problems um there was a lot of work being hammered into the mountain so the mountain was being removed and when that started we saw a lot of material disappearing fact we have some pictures before after so a lot of the mountains slid down trees slid down with a tremendous amount of soil came down my question is is it going to stay that way or when you put the wall up are you going to put that material back because you have a different Contour the M as it is now valid question material behind the wall goes back well I don't know where the wall is cuz I didn't see you know from over there I didn't see the plants but I know there was a tremendous amount of hammering being done and do you have the pictures I there are some some really good pictures of before and after if you have the pictures please if you have pictures please submit them the to has the pictures right they do no but the board the board does trees came down the board doesn't generally what generally if um a picture is going to be considered by the board you need the person who took the picture to say yep I took it on generally here's the date and it's an accurate depiction so can't just go look at a random picture you need the person to look so we'll get the pictures to this Karm is the uh secretary her office is right across the hall over here or you can just me it to the Barrow to her attention yeah and then we'll have them for next month okay so I'm not really familiar where where the wall is going to be and where that slide was but I know some several large trees came down with it and if it if they are if the wall is there it would be nice if some of that soil went back because it's it's pretty dramatic what happen and that's the main reason I think most of the people are here okay it's that's fine um that that SL is just hanging on a Shear there was no limit how to how far we were going back so once the wall is up with the stone behind it it'll almost be level with that point and then they can clean that area up by putting more dirt back and the trees are still hanging it and Bic make where did the dirt Go I mean a lot of came was ited off was ited off it's a stock pile there right now it's still there so back guys guys one at a time one at time we stipula that the material will go back after the wall is constructed and be leveled up and graded thank you Mr Pini anyone else yes ma'am I live up in the summit PS as well on the board up there so I just have a couple questions when they were doing the Excavating work and they were hammering through the The Rock vibrations were felt in tow houses that were all the way on the other side of our development that can actually feel the vibrations so I just want to make sure there nothing was done with the Integrity of what we have within the grounds okay for the town houses because it it was felt not only the town houses that were there but all the way across the development people were calling us up every day what's going on you know pictures Shing and everything else okay so your question is um I want to make sure the Integrity of our land in Summit BS up there on the hill has not been Disturbed you know constructionally everything is still sound number one and number two it there's now a straight drop behind the tow houses that are at that one part the lower part of our street on Bridge Drive now there's a straight drop so from their backyard kid kicks the ball and runs to go get the ball he falls down the mountain he's going straight down okay so the question there is there's no fence how is that going to be protected so the the two parts here are for what I'll interpret is was any monitoring done during the uh excavation to determine whether there was an issue with ground vibrations and secondly is there any um way to address her concerns about the U possibility of somebody getting hurt with the sheer drop off no sir not yet the the testimony that we have from the witnesses there was a fence above the wall when the wall is finished and so okay well that's the question she's asking so be along our property line along the property line there and then that Shear you're talking about the wall will meet that that's until the wall gets up we can't really take hide that once the wall is up that be 4 grade but so still it's still a straight jop from their property it's not you know you're not going to Tumble down the hill you're going to fall and you're gone only only you're going to be 18 ft higher than being gone because the wall is coming up with the fence on so someone were to fall down there and Tumble through they would stop at a higher elevation because we put we've dug into it but we've raised it up substantially so they won't put a fence along that property we don't have reason to put a fence on there we want to put a fence on top of the wall so nothing goes over the wall there's a requirement that you can't have a wall without some protection for for falling so on the wall okay so and you stated before that when they were chipping away at the Rock I heard you said the way they that process was done was to limit damage to other properties so one way to do that instead of so you said liit yeah but to what degree I wasn't involved in that so I don't know where that went but I know chipping is definitely a better way to come in there and bl all right so I just want to make sure because he said limit right that we don't have any property damage up there well I'll address that in a second okay um what I'd like you to do is tell me if you've had any monitoring results from the time that you were doing the excavation by whichever means you excavated and if you did uh that's what I'd like an answer to and if it's someone that hasn't been sworn in and is going to be a witness I have to have them sworn in first thank you m Strauss bring something not yet I just want to get all the questions in first anyone else have questions that were similar or different yes ma'am yes can I just stand here oh if you need to we just that we may not be able to hear you 32 Drive I've been involved with him for years now on this project and I wanted to state that and I have just in writing that he said he would Upon Our Pro property line he would make sure that it was stable he would put a fence or trees everything that he took down because everything was taken down we see hambur ter we see the the garages we see the of buildings we see everything our whole property has been devalued because yeah can you can you restrict it to just questions please the question is I want to know if Dave Paul is going to admit right now and everyone here that they are going to take care of us up there not just structurally but also the way that it we want to put that I have to have somebody swor in let's take I'll take a break before I have that answer that's fine anyone else have a question all right seeing that I'm going to close the meeting to public comments we got one more oh we got one more okay all right yeah Dan hoods 157 Mr teris um I guess it'll be quick my question is um is there going to be additional Jack Cameron on site an excavation and then can someone um speak to the difference between the uh vibration compacting of the stone and the jackhammering is it similar or is it significantly different with regards to sound vibration because my unit is clear on the opposite side of of the Hill um probably one of the furthest points away from the site and I worked from home for several years in my basement and felt it day in and day out to the point where I actually thought I was I thought it was my imagination so anyway um those watch your questions okay thank you we can answer that question not yet I'm going to I don't want to back forth okay anyone else questions oh and just one more no well make it quick because I'm trying to get to everyone okay just one more thing um up here in your name again please4 um if there are any other modifications that are done they will have to go before the board it won't be cart blanch where they can just make a change and not go back they do not get cart blanch man okay all right I just want to make no problem okay so um motion to close any motion second second all in favor any opposed okay Mr Whitaker we you have those address to answer the question pertaining to the types of compaction goes on between chipping and what's going to be done with the stone yeah up here please so hit the microphone yeah the hammering is is will generally get you much more vibrations significantly higher vibrations than the compassion compassion will have minimal effect and uh it you shouldn't they shouldn't feel anything and we added to that we can have fation monitors with thresholds okay and what were there monitors during the uh Construction or not who know who would know that I I I don't believe so but I'm going to check I have our construction cont contractor here over that and we just take a break and just want to revie it that's fine it's your meeting right now as far as answer the questions and or take your break and come back and answer the questions either way it's fine okay we'll take a break and answer questions okay um we can just take a motion to suspend the meeting for a short time you can suspend the meeting okay I will suspend this meeting for 5 minutes 10 minutes if you need it and um you can wait around or not it's entirely up to you all as soon as they come back in we'll resume the meeting just okay I'm calling this meeting back to order it is now 9:06 p.m. Mr Whitaker go ahead with your presentation what we had concluded our presentation but questions were asked pertaining to restoration of the property you've heard the testimony from the engineer that it will be graded back to the wall we understand um that the residents as neighbors and trying to be a good neighbor uh recognize that they would like to see a fence along that property line besides the fence that would be on the top of the wall and the applicant will stipulate to put in a 4ft chain length fence for that purpose in connection with the chipping of the wall that was done no monitoring was done I advised during the time the W was chipped but we stipulated that for the compaction and anything else that has to be done vibration monitoring will take place okay thank you uh so we took care of that one and that one question that didn't answer and I was interested will there be any more CH okay so the um the other thing I'd like to go over is how we ended up here at this time with the conditions that we have which is a project that had to be halted and a site plan that showed a but ended up becoming B because of the County so I was wondering if you could just give us a summary of how things went from the final approval here to where we are tonight yes Mr chairman I'm advised of the following the plans were approved here as you're well aware those plans of course was with your construction Department I I'm advised that thereafter they went to the county for approval and the county made modifications as it pertains to the drainage substantial modifications as you know putting the drainage to the re those plans were reviewed by the town and they saw that those plans created a better drainage uh s situation than what was approved here you heard that testimony tonight and they not only permitted that to go on but they uh inspected that trage that was that installed and in doing that that's when they went back further and got to the point of expanding the drainage and the way they had to expand the drainage they wound up then saying we're going to have to put a wall and it started shipping the wall and that's when the construction Department said oh it that's not on any plan that was approved here stop the work material had already been delivered stopped the work and we've stopped in uh that pattern until we get before you now so that's what I'm told is the sequence of events okay thank you for the explanation [Music] all right um you're completed with your presentation correct we are okay so the board um has heard questions from the public questions from ourselves um there's a lot of ifs maybe and presentation that still needs to be made based on some of the comments that our engineer made and um we have we have two options at this point we can um you can vote on a a motion to approve or disapprove or we can vote on an extension request an extension to next meeting so that all this information can be presented to us and if that's the case then what we would do is continue this pres this uh application into next month and at that point I would take not only additional questions from the public but also statements from the public as a result of the full hearing does the board member have any preferences uh you know this Project's uh it's been stretched out pretty long um I think what their presentation tonight I think was excellent one of the best ones most professional ones we've seen in a long time but I I think there's so many stipulations and stuff I really think we should continue it till next month that's my opinion that another month isn't going to make a big deal it's really been stretched out a long time project and I don't think another month is going to make a difference I have the same concerns cuz we we've got a lot of things to be seen yet so other members of the board have see um well I'm bearing in mind that our engineer had volunteered the two options we either uh halt here and come back next month when everything is done or he would our engineer would undertake to work through that those conditions um contingent one which would follow our appr approval so if our engineer is comfortable with that and um the attorney has stated that would be his preference then I don't see why that could not take place that we could not make a a resolution to approve subject to the details to be worked out and of course if theils can't be worked out then it's going to come back to us anyway isn't it right anyone else have an opinion mayor first all I agree with I thought the presentation was done very well and and explained a lot um I I would like to see I think you brought up chairman on how the wall is going to look from H turn just because that's going to be a very visual place as you drive by now you can see some of the wall now as you drive by but it's not fully in is there a way they can do a quick drawing of something like that I'm sure they can my my suggestion would be if we could have a situation where we know the information our your engineer wants know you want a photo or or a a rendering if you will what would W look like we can get all that information to you before the next meeting but if you could take a vote tonight with saying hey this a lot of conditions you still have to approve a resolution because if we wait and carry it to another meeting and then you vote in favor and thereafter we have to wait another meeting for the memorializing resolution we're getting further into a season we'd like to get this work started as soon as possible going for a while and I've done enough of these applications in the past that two putting their heads together between now and the next meeting we could be ready for a vote you know for we could document and memorialize it at the next meeting we take the scoll vote tonight or we could always we we've wavered the resolution also we've done that yeah let me let me just discuss my only issue is if there's going to be more testimony and more evidence that comes in it makes it a little difficult you know so I wasn't suggesting any more testimony I was just going to send an exhibit in which will show you what it would look like that basically be it the rest of it is our engineer getting together together with your engineer and satisfying all the requirements we gave him the letter I know he hasn't opportunity to look at it yet but the letter basically addresses all the concerns he had and we don't have a copy of that letter either um since he was just given it tonight any other members have opinions Mr chairman do we know the status of the building itself in in the point of view of occupancy Mr Whitaker who's who's occupying the building itself timing of is there an imminent tenant I'm not sure there is and I understood that was leases that were prated for this but I don't know when they start I'm not doing that work I'm just doing thees okay I'm just thinking of timing what's the rush if there's no tenant available chairman yes one thing um I know that the applicant is looking to move forward with this but the application has not even been submitted to soil erosion so that's not there that's a process of itself soil erosion approvals needed to do earth work so um pushing this to the next meeting might not be the worst thing especially since the Sol erosion approval is not in hand at this time my my opinion is that there's just too many things to be done that need to be presented so we can evaluate them properly I would be in favor of extending it to next month for a vote now if you want to get some general opinions um you know we can certainly offer them but um what that what I suggested we have a vote the vote is continue to next week continue to next month but you have a resolution that would be able to be um I mean if you worked with Mr I will endeavor to get all the conditions that were put on here still going to be contingent on work that's got to be done by the engineer uh and the pictures that if you're happy with them I will endeavor to put one together I just think that without him having given his analysis if that's what the board wants I start track well I'm I'm trying to be confident of their needs and also what should be done by the public for the public here at this board so my personally opinion is one vote here but I prefer not to have a vote tonight on it uh but I will defer to what the majority of the board wants to do on that and the second part is if there's a way to expedite the resolution uh that could be accommodated where the engineers and the attorneys kind of work together in the next few weeks so that a resolution could be available we could actually vote on it and pass a resolution same night correct yes you can do that does that make sense Mr Whitaker does make sense and that would basically not you wouldn't lose any time that way that's correct so it would satisfy us and you yes it would public has not had a chance to comment only question right well that would be at the next meeting so the resolution if we if we were to come up with this resolution it could be modified that night before we agree to it like if for there's a certain ad additive in there could be added and if it's good then it's good uh but we would take any comments rather than questions at the next month's meeting unless they PR uh if they prepare additional testimony then the public would have ability to question that testimony only and then comments at the end of that meeting and we can po this all up okay so uh I'm going to just take a straw poll of the board do you prefer to um have an outright vote tonight or to have something where we vote on it next month continue the meeting which would continue with the notifications and at the same time allow us to if necessary modify the resolution excuse me may I say something to the board no sorry emry I think we should continue some next continue mayor let's let's go right around the table mayor I'm okay it seems like if we can get everything done in the same meeting the only concern I would have is will they be presenting any new Witnesses the next no we don't anticipate that because that would make a walk the road no no we we've answered everything but it could be additional testimony because there's going to be missing information yes no new Witnesses no new Witnesses okay our engineer would be here to answer any questions based on the revised plan but the plan I we'll get it in and have your engineer review it in advance and then we'll look to get your all the conditions that you brought up tonight I took lots of notes it should yeah it should it should be a relatively the expedient meeting next time okay yeah the sooner we get all the information to review the quicker we can turn the letter around all right let's let's continue so Mike you okay with that and then he mentioned the soil is that something that'll happen within the next meeting well any approval is subject to the same county but the application that's another governmental entity and it's always subject to any any resolution we'll have subject to yeah good cool Amry you're okay Bill continu continue John continue yes I agree that's fine okay so the stwo is that we will continue this to next meeting you do not have to R notify the public is notified here that next meeting you will not get another notice but uh the meeting of um March 19th March 19th come on it's after St Patrick's Day you have another face sitting at the table I'm I'm away that day happens to be my birthday my my family has told me a year go I got to be somewhere so another person from my office here no problem well at least send the birthday cake jeez too many too many candles we have a fire department for that um okay so with that said is everyone's okay with extending this we don't need a motion for that correct that's correct agree to do you agree to it and uh we all have a a game plan here so I'm just going to ask you to cooperate with this response time so that we don't miss the timing understand ahead exped thank you m very much for your presentation thank you for your time okay take [Music] care Mr chairman with it the next meeting we will hear the list of stipulations I'm sorry clearing bigger well I was two engineers and we had work a couple things see your yeah just give them a minute to clear yeah we don't have anything else on the email you i' like to just finish the meeting up oh what okay thank you all for coming um the only thing else we have left is an open public comments on any questions on the other other than the agenda and if not I'm not going to open it up to the public for that and um if that's the case then we'll just uh look for a motion to adour um I have a question though okay kind of related we get corresponden and memos all the kind from surrounding towns and there why do we care it's funny we don't get anything from our own County though if somebody approved or disapproved an application is that te the drainage clear technically they should be power everything that's got County relative to our work should be copied back to us okay to the to the engineer or to the uh should is it and it's something on our on our side we [Music] missed typically it should go to engineering building department clerk's office you know I have other towns where they just send it to the clerk and the clerk tests it out to everybody that doesn't mean that it's being sent though got it got it all right so the answer is I don't know but maybe they did maybe they didn't but either way they explain the sit but again this is number two the second time this happens right because Car Wash copies with the safe County unconditional or whatever and I always forward it to to s or to the engineers they get copies of it but as long as you got a copy right and this is after the fact after the CU they get replied by after it's been you know approved or anything so then I get toate County then I get to soil erosion all that gets sent over and I I forward it over to you guys whatever and that buil so for example like the soil erosion stuff we need that for the project to actually go to construction so uh and I haven't seen any if I don't receive the soil erosion I can't discuss that with SA or k to say yeah they're good to go to Construction if I don't have soil erosion we're not signing off got all right so the rush that he's talking about is kind of I don't trying to make the point of doesn't say anything we can't do anything we can't do anything anyway it's not like we're not holding them up you're not holding already I mean they've Disturbed the ground erion typically me I don't know I don't know how many square feet they did it seems if they need one they should have had one a long time ago yes I agree although it would have been changed because they modified the site plan from the county I mean not for nothing but it sounds like they moveed forward without that was pretty much a and I only wanted that on the record I'm not going to try to point fingers at this point I just wanted on a record that this was something that happened and uh it wasn't something that we did or that building department did and if we are what we are and we're moving forward and and the latest plan set that they have their engineer has not submitted those plans yet to soil erosion anyway so even if you voted tonight they're not ready so no I would not have entertained to vote tonight if I had the choice that that the minute that they went over that that's what they said we don't have our plans in you know that's a concern and U what I'd like to also be able to do is um did did K did you have full digital of everything that they submitted tonight everything was said to you guys I know but I mean it was everything that they submitted tonight except for that maybe that one plan was digital or not this I don't know if this is they were is this the old one they were showing and then the new one that came that you've received I don't know what this one was cuz I had to look at the plans on my monor home which is a lot bigger than my phone obviously to be able to make sense of them and I just wanted to make sure we had all of them whatever he presented with just the but that's why I asked is this an exhibit he took it so I don't have it that's yeah that's the his new plan that was not in the list of what he submitted okay so we would want to get a copy of that digitally yeah and then we we'd have at least then we and then anything that is coming from them for next meeting same thing digital I just bug them I I do I not even don't if they don't comply with what we're as requesting especially with approvals then we're not going to vote next month well I I told the engineers on the way out whatever you have new documentation send it all the K and then she'll distribute it to everybody I said don't send it to me directly like I asked her prior to this meeting tonight um the Whitaker's office what is there anything being presented tonight can you send me anything and she said okay nothing she didn't have anything so yes they hand out then there's a letter from you know nothing so that was yeah so again Mr chairman going back to the original so this is the second time because last time when they did the car wash we had a radius for that intersection but the county Chang it yes right so we didn't get notified until after construction so my question is I guess the board planning board does not have to be notified if the county denies an application that's going to be up to our engineer in our office to act upon a denial but they don't send anything directly to the planning board once in a while I get copied on stuff but as to the time it goes to the town end of it I so so we're not so what I'm saying it's it's going to happen again well and what I was going to bring up just real quick is you know we have the um housing authority projects coming I got a the county reached out to me yesterday and said as a cur we are going to come to the planning board to present our salt but they don't have to so like you're saying now there's no letter coming from the county in an email saying by the way next whenever we're going to come with these plans for the so them they're going to contact car they're going to set up a there still going to be a salt down here I just got something from them I from County about a sh I have a whole occation that just came in yeah so what happened is we worked out on gra to keep salt here the count we just had a meeting about the Count's going to own the property where the shed Dome is going to be so that is their property the rest of the property is going to the housing alart okay they do because they're not really a county organization quote unquote do have to follow all the rules and regulations of what they need to do right the salt shed part since it's the county they don't they can do what they you were just talking show up when they want present it as a courtesy and move on I convince them at least do the courtesy um but we won't be waving any permit fees for example for the Housing Authority even they are a quas county organization but that we do get approval on yes as specifically that question and they said yes we are the position they require s the only the only thing that um there's something in the U lus law that's any uh um and I forget the wording they use but any construction project that the town does theoretically is supposed to come here it's just using Capital funds is that right we're not using any funds no I'm just talking about in general like if you decided to put a building up in town if you decideed to direct you have to come here come here for Capital review Capital County doesn't it's a courtesy yes Curtis here cap yeah it's not an approval it's not approval you just have to go and even if the board says nothing in 45 days you you've checked it off you don't have you don't have to get anything but the board gets to review it and give comments consistency with master plan and anything else they want yeah but that's not an approval that's a recommendations referral well with this project and I agree with with John is kind of saying they kind of did something with the county and rightly so they made their changes but they really should at some point reach out to us and say hey we made these changes just so you're aware but they come back but what made it worse is they GRE they read on the drainage changes and that resulted in there was no other place to put it except to go into the mountain is that basically right so it forced them to build something that they weren't planning on doing because of the drainage change so the the county and their you know own little world may have said okay we're just changing drainage and then they came back in and said oh well now we have to do this and nobody told us so I I I don't know what John what I tell you go down knock on your door bring the power of your your position down there that public sector that I always never understood anybody else have questions uh just one last item was uh I know one of the complaints from the president was defense but she also mentioned it about um tree coverage or because now you can see h t so I just want to make sure if it's in one part of the resolution that fence and coverage like that one guy promis well that's that brings up an interesting point but if those trees were on the applicant's property he can take them down if they are not trees on some the developments then they don't have a is there a space between the development and the applicant though yeah yeah I think there is wait a bit yeah and who owns that we don't know yeah I'm just looking right here so it's 35 ft but to the wall it looks like another 6 or 7 ft so it's almost 40 ft to their property line it's quite a bit that's to that short corner to the left I mean I think down they cut out big Corner was what do you say 115 ft oh yeah I I think it's okay to ask for trees if they're agreeing to it we not able to force it the but the the the answer to both your questions is my my plan for that condition is to say that they will restore property of members of the public to their satisfaction prior to doing anything so they're going to have to so if it's on if if these missing trees were on Gap property that's not a member of the public they can't be forced to do it because that property owner might might not say yes it's going to be if it's property owner by a member of the public that's SP here that's how that's I'm a little nervous about doing this condition a few of these but it's going to say they have to they have to propose and get the approval of that member of the public to restore trees Landscaping whatever was lost as a result of this original chipping and construction prior to commencing work so they're going to have to agree to that and I think but then who owns though that strip of land you know they're condos well I think what they I think my understanding was he's saying we're going to put a fence on the wall and that on our own property line yeah so it's going to be so not putting it out on anybody else's po no but the restoring of the trees can only be done to a me of the public that can consent to it CU they can't be told to put trees on some property that the applicant doesn't own or anybody else does they might the put black vinyl on black VL but what I'm saying is that if these guys took down some trees as they chip back the mountain a little bit um they can entertain the idea of putting trees back but they don't absolutely have to they cut down some of their own trees on their own property on their own property to think that some of the people at least it was uh vague enough that maybe some of their own property was was impacted I don't have but if they would have approached us prior to Escavating maybe the residents would say all right go ahead we'll approve it just don't touch that trees cuz then I'm going to see himber if they I don't want to anybody but I guess somebody should have noticed chipping of a mountain that wasn't well if they were going to do this they probably should have been surveyed at some point really right so we should have I I don't know if it's whoever but someone should have noticed Machinery chipping away at M you know unfortunately you know going south there so a and I understand you know but they noticed it working at home oh come on mine house shakes every time the quar yeah I still I actually feel the quar by my house not anym not anymore yeah not this one no the one the one in poet when every time they pass around 11:30 or 12 my have shakes I'd be curious to put a sonograph in there just that of cuity it's probably low but it's enough to actually can we make a motion not yet no we did not because somebody had questions don't say anything Mike can I make a motion to address okay sure second second all favor thank you all thank you now so I just want to something that's new from the state just came out that now the town are going to be respons