good evening everybody Welcome starting with invocation by Pastor Tom Nelson First United Methodist Church please rise followed by the Pledge of Allegiance will we bow with me God thank you for the hearts of those who serve our City May their investment of time tonight yield the best for the future of Port Orange and its residents give wisdom to them to discern what is good profitable and just for us all and for all of us gathered tonight May there be a spirit of cooperation and a goal of a rich future together for your people for our bikers for your creation Creation in the city of Port Orange we give you thanks in Jesus I pray amen amen I pledge of aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all will the clerk call the role Council here here here here here we have a quorum we have a full Quorum all the present and accounted for which brings us to item four on uh public comments on consent agenda items items 6 through eight would anyone like to uh comment on anything that's on the consent agenda tonight I'm looking Robert's way and still sitting there okay we're good with that can I get the uh item five approval of the agenda for the evening so moved second we have a motion a proper second we'll give it to uh we'll give it to Mr grubs all in favor signify by saying I I we have an agenda approval for the evening items 6 through eight on consent may have a motion so moved second we have a motion and a proper second call the role yes yes yes yes yes 5 consent agenda is approved item 6 through eight we brings us to public participation uh Michelle UD on up how are you doing tonight my name is Michelle udder and I'm going to talk to you because I'm fiser vaccine injured I worked at Advent health and they didn't want anyone to know that anyone was injured by the fizer vaccine or the covid-19 vaccine I have just been terminated after being on disability I have chronic inflammation dilation poly neuropathy microc clotting mcast cardiac issues vascular issues and more I have been to an infusion center for 35 months that's a week without being in the hospital getting infused with IVIG that's intervenous immunoglobins where I sit there for six hours and get to think how not safe and effective this vaccine is We are continuing to have vaccines locally all around the shots need to stop I have an autoimmune issue without my infusions I can die there is no cure for me do you want future generations to go through this I have raised my three sons here they are all serving in the US Navy I have been an upstanding citizen here and I've done everything I was supposed to do I am not misin information the government has abandoned us and left us our financial burdens I have spoken out on Governor Dan santis Roundtable and many others I have been on many podcasts and radio stations and I have just Rec recently spoke to lpo I need awareness I need the shots to stop also because of the financial burdens my infusions cost $15,000 a month just to keep me alive so if more people have these issues because there's also cardio issues neurological issues there's also issues with sterility still burs and much more are we going to continue this I will be having rallies I will be having protests and I will be y'all's next hurricane I'm trying to get awareness out and I will make sure that everyone knows what is going on I have called here in the past to see if there's anyone that could help me I was told no no one could help me and I can give you names of them if you want to find out who I am or give me a call I'll be glad to tell you no newspaper or radio station local will do it but if you want to go on Governor Dan santis round or his website you'll see me that I'm on there um I'm just tired of being ignored I'm tired of people not knowing about vaccine injuries I'm tired of your hospital hiding people I am tired because I will be The Whistleblower I will have lawsuits and I do not appreciate being injured by the vaccine and you continuing it here at all these local pharmacies because I have video of every single one of them having communication with him have a good day thank you and I have Michael uh Michael Agri there he is good evening good evening uh Miche Agri I'm Port Orange resident I'm just here on behalf of the uh Port Orange South Daytona Chamber of Commerce I'm this year's board chair and I just want to thank the mayor the city counselor uh I'm sorry the city manager and the council for all your support guys have been very good to us and I just want you to know on behalf of the board of directors we appreciate yall that's it good to see you thank you appreciate you not having to take all three minutes Tracy do I have any others okay thank you with that uh Council comments let's start at this end uh councilman Foley uh yeah just one quick thing um during the consent agenda we approved the local rules uh change in order to comply with that case which I think was the right decision to make Obviously good job by Matt and his staff and everyone involved in doing that uh but that brought up when me and Matt were discussing it in private just you know going through some of this it brought up something i' had mentioned before I want to say maybe October no November last year about the order of our agendas and and how we have our thing structured and I and I some about the agenda approval itself which is item five tonight and um I was talking with Matt I talking with Wayne and I'm trying to once again I know this seems like a small thing but I think there's some unintentional conf confusion that occurs about how we have that structured and on all the boards I serve you know I'm on TPO I'm on the exe executive committee um fire pension we're the only one I know that has an agenda approval where we have it and when we do it and I know that it's not even a requirement so I've asked Wayne once again to talk to you guys whether that's in private or whatever it may be about how you feel about removing that U and just proceeding with a regular agenda so you know you guys can talk to him on your own about it I just want to let you know that I still think that when I T I've talked to more than one resident probably about 10 who find the way we do that small process to be slightly hard to understand so I think we should always try to be as clear-cut and transparent as we possibly can be and I don't think that there's any need for that item to be in there if we want to pull something off consent we can do that when consent comes up so uh but that's my opinion I'm just sharing it again and letting you guys know that I was talking to Wayne about it again so okay I will give you my take on it is that u a it's part of Robert's Rules a very minuscule part of Robert's Rules which we've adopted as their rules but more than that um when we adopt the agenda for the evening we're we're saying yes to what was posted uh I'm not a fan of adding things to the agenda after it's been posted but that would be the place would be done and we would be doing that in a very public fashion I'm not a fan of bringing things up that are not on the agenda and sometimes uh I have seen it uh in years past where uh Council people have brought the surprise item up at the end of an agenda and I uh end of an e evening and I don't think that's appropriate uh but that's part of the part of the reason why we do that so I think while it might be clear as mud sometimes there is actually a method to the madness but that's just my take but we we can all have those conversations with the city manager yeah and usually at the beginning of the year when we uh adopt and review our our rules for the year if you want to change that then then so be it but uh um you know we'll take that what it is yeah what else you got no that's it all right Tracy what you got for us tonight a couple of things uh in December we talked about these lovely postcards that were coming around uh for the PACE program that an Initiative for homeowners to take care of their houses and everything and as a city we came out and we pretty much xade uh some of these contractors from having the abilities to um Thorn swaggle I guess was polite way of putting it but I just want to let everybody know is they're back everybody should have these come out in their mailboxes again um they're nice it's the same exact information just rebadged a different way so just be careful when you're getting these deals and notices in your mailboxes through different programs that they need to be contractors that are licensed for the city of Port Orange so you guys don't get in trouble um they they dish out a beautiful sales pitch to you and uh it's one closeness to snake oil so be very very careful of that um going on with that uh you know we got uh Public Works and everybody over the last month and a half we're getting lots of Paving done it's a beautiful thing I want to thank the staff for doing a great job and getting all that done and concrete repairs are still moving along uh other than the rainy days that came out again again but with the rainy days it's always I I know everybody up here gets cringy when it rains like it did the other days on the weekend four problem areas that I've been watching and observing out of that there was only one that had some water standing otherwise everything else was just basic in the gutter and dried up so again thank you to the staff you guys are staying on top of it and when you go down uh Jackson Street and sugar Forest area that I've been watching really regularly and seeing that after that strong rain on Sunday and six o'clock in the evening and there's nothing standing in the canals I was happy so all there was to it it was just fantastic and then uh lastly is dealing with uh uh groundbreaking um I know you're going to talk a little bit about it so I don't want to take too much uh thunder away from you if you guys are available on a March 11th oh the Monday one there's a Thursday one also 5:30 uh Thrive Church church is uh doing groundbreaking and this is a fantastic event for those that can come out and join in it' be great to see everybody there okay I was going to say and how did all that Paving project happen in your District what's going on with that yeah some of it was in what you got for us this week Scott just a comment of Praise we've had um couple of really great events the last couple weekends down in the river District at Riverwalk Park and I just want to compliment uh the folks that have been putting those events on and the the city staff that that supplements that and and helps to put on a great event I know uh councilman grubs was responsible for the weather this past weekend and kind of but but he's new and he he'll get the hang of it so he didn't consult with the Chamber of Commerce that was the problem but even with tough weather it was still uh it was still a successful event and we'd like to see uh more events down there because I will I get really good praise and feedback from the residents that attend the events down there so good thing to see and that Park is being well used for sure that's all I got indeed Dre what you got this week already been covered all right um Wayne the street lights on Nova Road that section from Herbert Street on Nova heading south towards dun lton that have been out since uh hurricane in in 2022 I know we've talked about it in the past and this is the stuff that drives us crazy because is it's in our city but you know the streets that we don't own because some are city streets some are County streets some are state roads some of the lights most of them are maintained by fpnl but they're on do rideways and the government morass here we are a year and a half later can you give it what's going on with those so the latest we had we there was an issue of whether there was power there so Florida Power and Light went out uh checked the the they believe they have found good power in that area so they passed that along to the Department of Transportation so sometime around Christmas Department of Transportation put a work order out there to go work on it we don't have an update past that time so we'll get that from you to see but they do believe there was power in that area so that was the last we heard if you can get us some kind of timetable I mean you've only been on it for a year and a half uh it' be nice to uh matter of fact it would be nice if we had lighting like that up and down dun Lon but the places where we do have it I'd like to be able to take full advantage of it and if you could stay on that for us I'd appreciate it uh with that item 10 special reports report from camper Sports on the Cypress Head Golf Course well I'm going to start by singing a song from ced's clear water revival P stop the rain yeah right just kidding I'm not going to sing good evening mayor uh MERS of council I'm Jeff Dayton general manager at Cypress a golf club so as you know it hasn't been the best weather for golf but uh we're trying to hang in there as best we can um the uh the superintendent is doing a great job uh keeping the course looking great it's been a tough growing season for all superintendants in the area but uh we have seem to weather better than most so happy to report the golf course is in great shape with a little bit of sunshine we'll get back into uh back into Financial condition but um you know through January these numbers are we just shot 700,000 in revenues we uh were under budget by about $30,000 uh we're keeping payroll and operating expenses managed as close nit as possible and through January we're under bottom line budget by $220,000 with given four straight months of bad weather that's not too bad so we feel pretty well positioned to make a solid comeback and uh get back into the good position with regards the budget we've uh played just shy of 15,000 rounds so far uh just under budget about 1,600 and almost a thousand rounds under last year so rounds are down it's not unusual the whole South Atlantic region uh for golf National Golf Foundation just reported that in January Al rounds were down 18.5% the average temperature was down 5 degrees the average precipitation was up 29% so nothing good for golf but like I said the teams perform well under these adverse conditions our uh we just got I just got back from Chicago the camper Sports conference and our uh we received a couple Awards the park Club award for hitting budget which Cypress has done six years in a row now and the true service award for uh having a net net promoter score of 70 or above which we were one of the leaders in the company and our net promoter score actually grew by 20% over prior years so that's a pretty pretty incredible statistic and a testament to the team that we have there uh the the condition itions for the golf course at an NPS of 92 thanks in large part to Darren bot and his team so very happy that he continues to do the right things uh the service standards remain High um we're getting ready to roll out a new true service platform called true service 3.0 so it' be just a little more streamlined uh true service training but Suzanne Snider has been very integral in being a master facilitator with that program development within the company so uh she's a key player there uh we've got car path Renovations and bunker renovations coming up we're trying to get the numbers together we've got our quotes in place so we're trying to get some car paths done by May or June Bunker's uh looking at hopefully September October and that'll be like the final piece of the puzzle really completing that golf experience as many of you know we just received top 25 uh for public courses in Florida through Golf Now Golf Pass that's a a huge unexpected honor um and uh something that we're going to run with uh we're considering some of the names that are on that top that you're on there it's pretty impressive list so we're we're we're uh we don't like we don't to our horn a lot but it's going to be something to be proud of um and we're going to use it on our marketing going forward now we're now that our website is completed I I encourage you to go back to that and check it out it's more streamlined updated pictures more user friendly um and cleaned up quite a bit now that that's taken care of Leslie is going to be focusing really on the pass holder program and a new uh uh loyalty program that we're looking to roll like a frequen fairway program to try to really capture the local market and all the new homeowners that are coming to our area so um you know for the rest of this quarter um we're just trying to catch up uh hopefully the bookings are solid uh for tea times through March we've actually extended our booking window from 14 days to 30 days we've also started a new program called notify I encourage you if you're a golfer to go on notify and uh click on that and you can put in your preferred tea times and dates and when a tea time comes Avail you'll get a email or text notification so you can you can have your tea time on standby if you don't get it the first time you call tournament booking pace is very strong we've got 10 outings 10 tournaments uh booked from now through the end of May so uh pretty much every Saturday could be spoken for if he wanted to have a tournament every Saturday but uh it's strong the demand for golf is strong continues to be so just a matter of getting the weather to cooperate a little bit better but uh that's all I questions Council you getting you getting all fairly easy I okay with that we here we are in a busy season and we got all this rain and you're getting off easy from us I don't know what that says but uh uh do something about the rain good they turn to 500 I mean hope we get the rest of the bike weekend right appreciate you thank you all thanks sir that brings us to the public hearing portion of our meeting the public hearing portion of the meeting is now open item 11 hammock preserve project and before I read this in Penny I'm going to assume you probably want me to go ahead and open both items so that we can discuss them at the same time for ease and continuity yes sir and I will do that with that item 11a item 11a is ordinance number 20242 which is an ordinance of the city of Port Orange fuchia County of Florida relating to comprehensive planning amending the future land use map of the comprehensive plan amending the future land use designation for plus or minus 5.2 Acres of parcel Z 620 one-- 00000010 from Urban medium Desy residential which is 48 units per acre to commercial amending the future land use designation for plus or minus 29.9 Acres of parcel 6201 000012 from Suburban residential 32 units acre to Urban medium density residential which is 48 units per acre amending the future land use designation for plus or minus 2.5 acres of parcel 6201 d-- 000012 from Suburban residential which is 0 to two units per acre to commercial with text Amendment adding a future land use element to provide density intensity limits for the overall plus orus 149. 2 acre property generally located along the north and south sides of melin Avenue East of Williamson Boulevard authorized transmitt to be to required agencies providing for conflict ignorances SE severability and an effective date and I have a motion for approval move to approve ordinance number 202 24-02 second we have a motion proper second item 11a is open and on the floor item 11b is is ordinance number 20243 an ordance of the city of Port Orange fuch County Florida resoning property consisting of approximately plus or minus 32.4 Acres of parcel 6201 d-- 0012 I should have that me number memorized by now from r-8 SF single family residential to PUD plan unit development and establishing the hammock preserve plan unit development PUD Master development agreement and conceptual conceptual development plan for a plus or minus 149. 2 Acre Site generally located along the north sides of melin Avenue East of Williamson Boulevard providing for conflicting nances providing for severability and providing for an effective date move to approve ordinance number 20243 second we have a motion proper second the item ordinance number 20 24-3 is also open on the floor for discussion Wayne who do we have here to present Penelope crw planning so the subject property consists of three Parcels as the mayor mentioned located on the North and South sides of meline Avenue East of Williamson Boulevard as you can see on your location map the parcels have been labeled parcel 1 two and three for ease of reference um the subject property is currently undeveloped and used for agriculture operations open pastures forested Uplands forested Wetlands several drainage ditches and ponds and the b19 canal parcel one was previously approved in 2006 for 552 unit multif family development named Villa Park parcel 2 was previously approved in 2006 for a 37 unit single family subdivision the development plans for both of these once proposed developments expired prior to the development commencing so tonight we are here for two applications that are currently under consideration for the proposed site that we will review with the first item that was opened the applic is requesting a comprehensive plan amendment to amend the future land use map to change the future land use designation of approximately 5.2 Acres on parcel one from Urban medium density residential to Commercial and to change the future land use designation of parcel 2 consisting of 32.4 Acres from Suburban residential to 29.9 Acres of urban medium density residential and 2.5 acres of commercial the current future land use designations on the subject property have been in place for over 25 years as as part of the proposed comprehensive plan Amendment there's also a corresponding future land use text amendment that would limit the development so that all residential units would be clustered onto parcel one with a maximum of 873 residential units and limit the neighborhood commercial uses on parcel 1 and two to 40,000 sare ft with no more than 10,000 square ft of that allowed to be located on parcel 2 the proposed comprehensive plan Amendment does not increase the number of dwelling units allowed on the subject property but it will increase the square footage of commercial uses by the 40,000 squ ft at a designated commercial node while commercial uses are generally located at an intersection node according to the applicant the proposed commercial located on the south side of meline Avenue is placed in a location to allow pass by trips for residents who will stop on their way to and from their homes for traditional neighborhood commercial uses that serve the general area the surrounding area near the site including the southwest corner of Williamson Boulevard in meline Avenue where commercial land uses would typically be located is already developed for residential uses so by providing the neighborhood Comm commercial uses near this node the proposed development will provide the potential for shorter vehicle trips for services to existing residents the proposed future land use amendment is compatible with the surrounding area and generally consistent with the goals objectives and policies of City's comprehensive plan the proposed future land use designations meet the locational criteria as the subject property is located along an arterial Corridor near the intersection of two arterial roads utility infrastructure already exists in the area an adequate capacity exists for portable water sewer schools and solid waste to accommodate the proposed amendment the school district has reviewed and approved the proposed amendment and if approved will review any future development plans as for traffic roadway Ms above current capacity were identified and as with all development any future site development proposals for the property will be subject to currency regulations requiring adequate public facilities be provided to mitigate the impacts created by any proposed development with the second item the applicant is requesting to rezone 32.4 Acres from R8 sing SF single family residential to plan unit development and established the hammock preserve Master development agreement and conceptual development plan for the overall 149 9.2 Acre Site of that 149. 2 acre property approximately 11 16.8 acres is already zoned PUD but without an active Master development agreement to establish development parameters so if approved the proposed PUD would allow for the development of a mixed use project that consists of 87 multif family units clustered on parcel one to allow for increased open space preservation of natural a areas and drainage on Parcels 2 and three with no increase in the number of dwelling units allowed on the subject property as proposed the multi family buildings on parcel one would be a maximum of 65 ft tall except for a portion of the multif family Building located within 100 ft of the Pud boundary which would only be allowed to be 45 ft tall also including four 40,000 ft of commercial square footage distributed between Parcels 1 and two with no more than 10,000 of that square feet um being allowed on parcel 2 and just an example of what a 10,000 ft of commercial would look like um that would be similar to the multi-tenant building on dun Len where Chicken Salad Chick is located so that multi-end building is approximately 10,000 square ft just as a as an example um as proposed the commercial buildings will be a maximum of 45 ft in height on parcel one and 25 ft in height on parcel 2 the proposed neighborhood commercial uses allowed are listed in the master development agreement and on page four of the staff report roadway connections for the Pud are proposed at meline Avenue and Williamson Boulevard uh driveway Stouts to the adjacent vacant commercial property at the northeast corner of meline and Williamson would be required for a future internal connection between the two commercial properties um and based on the anticipated traffic entering and exiting the proposed PUD designated left and right turn lanes are anticipated at all driveways into the site however the final design of driveways um for the Pud would be reviewed and approved through vucha County through their driveway permitting process since all the proposed driveways would be on County maintained arterial roads the multif family um and neighborhood commercial uses would comply with the city's parking requirements in the Land Development code and the roadway Network Network within the Pud would consist of private roads or access drives that the property owner would be required to maintain the MDA requires the developer to construct an 8ft wide sidewalk along Williamson Boulevard on the north side of meline Avenue and a 5- foot sidewalk along the south side of M meline Avenue along with connections into the development and an internal sidewalk Network um for parcel one to connect all proposed multif family to the commercial the Pud would also comply with the city's landscaping and tree preservation requirements in the LDC um and when a site plan would be submitted in the future a formal review of that landscaping and tree preservation would occur to verify compliance with the code the proposed dimensional requirements for the Pud are generally consistent with those of conventional zoning districts that allow for the proposed uses that are proposed in the Pud with the exception of height which will be discussed a little bit later on in the presentation the proposed MDA indicates a minimum 60% of the 149. 2 acre PUD would be reserved for open space with 76% um equaling approximately 113 Acres actually set aside for open space on the concept plan which is higher than what's the minimum required by code and of that a minimum of 20% would be reserved for common open space the MDA also requires a 20ft perimeter landscape buffer adjacent to existing residential subdivisions 50ft landscape buffer along Williamson Boulevard and along the east side of parcel 3 and a 35t landscape buffer along mateline Avenue which is also greater than what is required by the Land Development code the three Parcels oops I think I went too far the three Parcels are currently hydraulically connected to the b19 canal and also and also assist with routing of adjacent storm water systems that flow through the property to the b19 canal currently storm water from parcel 1 is retained on site in existing wetlands and ponds or is conveyed by pipes under meline Avenue to exist to an existing pond on parcel 2 or to the Pelican Bay drainage ditch to the north side of parcel 1 and ultimately discharges to the b19 canal the pond on parcel 2 holds water from parcel one and two and along the east side of parcel 2 is the b19 canal however based on the survey data there's no direct outfall from parcel 2 to the b19 canal but during storm events that go beyond the 100-year 24 event such as Hurrican um there is Overland drainage that occurs from parcel 2 into the b19 canal the b19 canal runs along the west side of parcel 3 along with a series of ditches on parcel 3 that convey storm water from adjacent subdivisions to the b19 canal and again based on the survey data there's no direct outfall from parcel 3 to the b19 or under melin Avenue to parcel 2 however since parcel 3 is lower than the surrounding developed areas when the b19 canal overflows it tops its Bank in water stages on parcel 3 so the proposed storm water drainage infrastructure for the Pud will be be be provided as depicted on the concept plan the proposed development spans three Parcels located within flood zone AE and Des and a designated flood way parcel one would include a network of ponds Wetlands existing drainage canals or ditches that will be designed to treat and attenuate runoff facilitate efficient water management and mitigate environmental impact the interconnected ponds on parcel one would treat runoff before discharging into a preserved centralized Wetland which you see right over here on the concept plan the discharge into the Wetland will help maintain water quality contribute to Wetland hydration and in addition storm water will also be discharged into the Pelican Bay ditch at the North End of parcel 1 which would eventually outfall into the b19 canal the concept plan also includes compensating storage ponds on Parcels 2 and three and according to the project engineer the compensating storage ponds are strategically positioned to mitigate or offset the effects of the impacts of development on parcel one and two that require fill to be added within the flood plane compensating storage ponds are used to balance the loss the loss of natural flood storage capacity when fill or structures are placed in the flood plane if the Pud is approved oop Sor formal engineered dra drainage plans are required to be submitted as part of any site or subdivision plan application in addition to meeting the requirements of the LDC the storm water system would also be required to meet the storm water requirements of the St John's river water man Management District and there could possibly also be permitting required through FEMA according to the traffic memo provided by the applicant if the Pud is developed at the maximum density and intensity it could generate fewer am and and PM peak hour trips but more daily average trips spread throughout non- peak hours than if there were if the three Parcels were developed under the maximum residential density Allowed by the current future land use designations the dist sorry can you read that part again yes so under the current proposed PUD design um if it was developed at the maximum density and intensity that's allowed it would generate fewer AM and PM trips but an increased average daily trips that would be spread out through non- peak hours and the reduction in those trips in the peak hours is due to the mixture of the types of uses and so that's what gives you that decrease on the peak out hours but the increase in the daily with the actual development being proposed but just spread out in non- peak hours if you could just star that because I'm going to have you come back to that yes I'll flag that um the distribution of traffic a feeling the distribution of traffic to and from the site is estimated to be split with 37% of the trips utilizing Northbound Williamson Boulevard and 18.2% utilizing southbound Williamson Boulevard and then 44.8% utilizing meline Avenue the staff report included a list of possible future roadway projects that may be needed to ensure adequate Transportation facilities are available as part of the development of the proposed PUD the improvements listed on page 20 of the staff report are subject to change based on analysis results from a full traffic impact analysis at the time development is proposed or based on the possibility of some of the improvements being already completed such as the widening of Williams and Boulevard from meline Avenue North therefore it's not an official list of the improvements required to be completed as part of the Pud and this level of data is typically not required or provided at this stage of a land use and Zoning um but it was requested and the applicant provided it because we know traffic is a sensitive issue um also just to note in the interim um with the recent repaving of meline Avenue uh the city was able to restripe a left turn lane onto C Morris Boulevard to increase stacking by approximately four cars and also as the city council approved at their last meeting staff has already submitted two applications to the TPO to evaluate intersection improvements at Town West Boulevard in Williamson and Clyde Morris Boulevard and madelin Avenue the proposed PUD includes one requested deviation from the Land Development code regarding Building height the LDC currently allows a maximum Building height of 45 ft for properties zoned with with a conventional City multif family or commercial zoning designation the MDA includes a maximum Building height for multif family uses at 45 ft within 100 ft of the property boundary and 65 ft where a building is located farther than 100 ft from the boundary and the maximum Building height of 45 ft for commercial uses at parcel one based on the prop proposed setbacks in the MDA and the current location of existing single family homes um adjacent to the PUD no existing single family home could be closer than over 100 ft from a multif family building with the actual separation ranging from 130 ft to 225 ft on parcel one according to the applicant the one deviation is requested for the height in order to allow for the clustering of the residential units on parcel one in a manner that allows for the preservation of the larger tracks of open space and storm water areas on Parcels 2 and three the architectural design um for all sides of the multif family buildings is proposed to focus on functionality sustainability natural colors and Architectural embellish embellishments using the modern Coastal Florida architectural design a public notice sign was posted on the site on September the 1st 2023 and as of yesterday staff has received phone calls or office visits from 34 four people requesting general information regarding the proposed future land use Amendment and related resoning all of these individuals have been notified of all public hearings a neighborhood meeting was also held by the applicant on October 2nd 2023 at 6 pm. at the Riverside Pavilion and was attended by approximately 65 people so I know that was a lot of information so in conclusion if I were to summarize um the bottomline request by the applicant it would be that they are not increasing the number of residential densities on the subject residential units on the current property um but what they are asking to do is through the Pud process cluster those units onto parcel one um and they are also asking for that so that parcel 2 and three can be used as open space and drainage they're also asking for to 40,000 square ft of commercial with no more than 10,000 of that south of mateline Avenue so that's kind of the the overall summary um that concludes my presentation but I know the applicant is here and would also like to provide you with their presentation as well well Penny I thought I had a lot to read but you put me to shame without a doubt um what I'd like to do is uh before we hear from the applicant um are there any technical questions from staff right now any technical questions because we'll we'll be getting into it with the uh with the applicant uh the developer representation uh a whole lot more in depth uh with them after their presentation so are there any technical questions for R Penny and if there aren't it now well she's not going anywhere we can get her all right because the door is the door is going to be locked you can't leave until we're done okay with that U Mark come on up tell us who you are and what you what you're asking for in uh all right more ELO eloquent words than the a technical presentation that staff does so well well good evening I I appreciate the opportunity to be here I'm Mark wats I'm an attorney with the cob Co Law Firm my address is 231 North Woodland Boulevard D land and Jessica gal with our office is also here with me this evening she's worked quite a bit on this project we've got a host of folks from Zev Cohen who are the project Engineers Chris roelly White Durant Bobby ball got a bunch of designers and Architects back here with um ACI that have done U the great imagery here and and we'll be working on the design of the project moving forward and um unfortunately our our transportation engineer with Lasser uh was not able to be here he just had knee replacement surgery and was not cleared to walk um for the or and spend a lot of time tap dancing and and being on his feet in front of the council period so um I'm going to play traffic engineer and answer questions as relates to traffic as we get through things but again we we appreciate the the opportunity to be with you this evening and and um we we do think we've got something that is a very good addition um to the future of Port Orange as as you continue to grow and and build your city um and also a very smart one um so let me let me start uh let's see SC scroll down I know yeah that's there we go um let me start with a little bit of History here and and I I told the joke at at planning board I wasn't going to tell it tonight but I thought it was I can't avoid it um it's just one of those dad joke things right so um when I was about 10 or 11 uh my dad uh was also a land use attorney and um he and Sam Owen started working together and U you know I kept hearing you know him talk about this you cousin's family that owned all this property over on the east side of the county and he was involved with it and he and Sam worked together on kind of planning what the the future of it would be and who was going to own it and you know fast forward you know whatever it is now almost you know almost 40 years um and here I stand before you representing the same group the same same property uh working with the crossy family who ultimately um you know became the owners of of the cousins Holdings and um and I think have set a very good um history if you will set a good example of you know how to work together as a property owner with the the community and the and the city and the jurisdictions that you that that govern your land if you will um and that has been something that's you know you can kind of see the history of it over over time through the community they worked with the county and the city to establish Williamson Boulevard dedicate the rideway for build the initial segments of it um have worked with the city extensively to plan the entire PCA District which when I first moved back to this area from I had been an assistant County attorney in penis County which was a a county that was largely built out we were looking at you know kind of Redevelopment I think there's still the last five or eight Acres that is in unincorporated you know pelis County that they're planning for but you know it was great to come back to a community and see a land owner in the city and the county working together on something like the PCA where you planned out where the infrastructure was going to be you planned out how to develop it over time um including things like crossy Park and making sure that that you know Parkland and everything else was included in the overall plan and I think in this area still continuing to plan for things like the extension of meline so um we're here tonight really to work with you on planning um you know we're going to talk about traffic we're going to talk about a lot of things but we're also going to talk about the fact that we know that there are hurdles and processes that are to come um with regards to how you move from a concept plan and the zoning that's on the property to the execution of it the construction of new roadways the Improvement of infrastructure and things of that nature and what we're asking you tonight doesn't do anything to absolve us or remove any of those requirements from us it simply helps Define as a community what are we planning for are we planning for conventional development pattern that's already there and existing under the existing zoning or for something different something that's a little bit um in our view um um more thoughtful and sustainable over time so um penny has gone in a very thorough report and given you a whole lot of information on the actual property so I won't go into a great deal of of detail on on this particular slide but there's the property again you know the boundaries and there's three Parcels that are included in it current land use and Zoning um one of the things that you know we we we sat down and initially started working on this overall project it was important to us to and in our conversations with your staff it was important to us to look at this as a you know from the standpoint of how do we do this better how do we take the existing entitlements and kind of keep those level but um put a plan together that that provides for a better you know kind of future and better development approach for the overall property so you know you've got existing PUD zoning you've got existing single family zoning you've got a total of about of the 873 units that are included in RPD one of the things we've done is look at your policies and and added in some of the neighborhood commercial that helps support um the those uses and we'll talk about that in a little bit more in the fut and we get to it in a second but you know here's your existing you know zoning here's your existing entitlements that are on the property so Urban residential Urban medium density um residential on your land use side two PDS and the um R8s you know single family zoning you know on the on the zoning side um what's that look like so to me it it it helped to kind of put this into a graphical representation so if you look at the property today with the zoning that's in place everything that's yellow and red is the area that would be developed the things that are green and blue are the things that would be preserved or set aside as open space um or as some other you know storm water feature and things of that nature and I'm going to get back to to that slide in a second but I can bring it back up if you need me to um this was a pretty good summary that that we thought kind of you know put together what are the highlights of you know what's the benefit of you know going down the road that we're proposing instead of you know the the existing zoning Road um to me the first one that's a I don't can you see my little cursor up here as well kind of really weak but this is one of the really really big ones um under your code if you move forward with the development of the overall property and a conventional standpoint you know with conventional zoning and the PDS that are in place you'd probably be around 50 to 55% open space on the PDS you've got a 60% threshold so You' you'd be a little bit higher in those particular portions of the property but the plan that that we have as part of the pbd this evening has 113 out of the 149 acres in the property set aside in some form of open space it's about 76% of the site in open space storm water things of that nature I'll show that picture in a minute because it's a very different picture we've increased buffers um we have created and we have an opportunity to create a very interconnected and coordinated drainage system with one management entity um we've reduced the connections um with this proposal to mateline uh with regard to access to the roadways um this would be a development with private roads instead of public roads um you know councilman sner you kind of highlighted this point earlier but it actually reduces the rush hour traffic if you will um even though while you have a little bit of an increase in the overall daily traffic over the span of time and we can talk a little bit more about that in detail on the traffic section um actually even reduces the student generation rate so um you know we think again it's a it's a responsible way to approach it this one summarizes a lot of those same things so I won't go into that again but from the standpoint of where' we go there we go what's that look like so think back to that slide that we had up a minute ago that had all the red in the yellow and this is what that proposes you know this one proposes with regard to the development footprint the red and the yellow still represents the areas that would be developed but where you previously had a lot of spread out red on parcel two and a lot of spread out red that kind of mimicked what you have with Sunset Cove to the South you know along parcel 3 heading up along the b19 canal that's all converted through this plan to open space and storm water that's all converted into areas where we take the density and intensity is already associated with that land and we concentrate it in the yellow and the red areas that are on primarily parcel one with a small amount over here on on parcel two with that I'm going to ask Jessica to come up and talk a little bit about the the design and some of the other setback issues and then we'll kind of bounce back and forth a little bit good evening Jessica GA called COA from 149 South rid Avenue I do have two preliminary comments um one is that um the Port Orange chamber came to valua days with the dayto in a Regional Chamber and had a blast so it was a great showing by them I just wanted to mention and the second is that Mark said he was going to start a joke and then he did not tell you the punchline so I will tell you the punchline of his cousin's story um because he got sidetracked and it was that he heard his dad and Sam Owens talking about this um and the cousins family um and he said oh it's great we have cousins of property um he did not know that it was not his family so that was his punchline no problem I'm jumping into uh my portion of the slideshow um we wanted to put this slide together um the architecture team ACI did a fantastic job um we don't have project elevations at this stage but we tasked them with putting together a vision book something something that the city could use to quantify the caliber and quality of the development that we're moving forward with or proposing to and so this outlines kind of that modern Coastal feel um using the lighter elements natural um building materials really highlighting the stunning settings of nature um and kind of that feel of having a community where you can walk to some neighborhood commercial you have that clusters you have outdoor spaces that you can really enjoy um and so that was the the vision board if you will of the development and here are some examples so soothing color palettes plenty of textures visual weights a lot of glazing glass elements to kind of highlight those views of the nature on the site and then this is just one example of a we're calling it a concept or an inspirational image of what that neighborhood commercial um could look like so these are proposed elevations there it would be of this similar style this next image um we put together um this is actually taken if you look on the left side of the screen on the little people down there um is taken from Pelican Bay as a perspective so that's kind of the shot because everywhere else is um pretty separated by mateline and other other areas so we put this together with the architecture team to show what that 65t Building height looks like with the proposed development plan in terms of that impact of view and so through the um neighborhood meeting discussion with residents um a lot of people talked about the hawk Mill project um which conveniently is in my backyard and so I get to talk from a personal perspective on the impact of the setbacks that we're proposing here that 65 ft 100t away with all those natural areas in between versus hawk Mill which is kind of your standard development I'll say it looks beautiful from my street they've got great fencing they've got Landscaping um but it is kind of right there on the road and so the visual impact of that versus what we're proposing here is very different um this next set is um part of you know one of my favorite things probably got to do um which is add a drone photographer line to my resume although I'll never have a different job don't tell Mark um this is a location shot of we went out and we bought a Copco drone a few years ago um for land use projects and this is the first time I've gotten use it and you can tell it's me because that memoji at the bottom looks just like me I think um so you can see where we were positioned um for the photos that you'll see here in a minute so we did a few sets of photos that you'll see um the first and like Penny outlined is that the typical building setback the minimum we have is 35 ft if we're um beyond that 35 ft until you get to 100 our height is limited to 45 ft for buildings and so we took the Drone out 35 ft in 45 ft up to say here's the perspective shot of what the top of that building would see looking at the adjacent residential area with meline coming down so you can see the Landscaping there and that is the existing Landscaping not the planting plan with a larger buffer um this is another shot that's again at that 35 foot setback 45 foot high right at the entry Road um to the adjacent residential to show that um we wanted to make sure that at the top of the building you weren't seeing into people's backyards and you're not seeing what they're doing and what's going on with the natural buffering um we also went back we popped in 100 feet and went up to 65t to show what that looks like looking Southwest and you can see that image here as well um which we just thought were really really helpful I did not include the numerous photos I took with the Drone of the cows on the site um I did forward those to the client though just so they have them this is and I like the cows I know we should have included at least one uh the neighborhood commercial uses that we're proposing is in the staff report really well outlined um we've just listed them here with a note that um there are some under lot one only that would not be permitted across melin into that smaller pocket we thought they were a little larger um and weren't necessarily that neighborhood commercial pocket that we're looking at in that smaller piece so those are lot one only and with that we're going to bring up Chris relly with Zev Cohen to talk about drainage hey how'd you get my favorite part of this yeah well Penny did such a great job I'm I'm GNA try and try and keep up with her because that was a very good presentation um but uh Chris Roy was Zone and Associates 300 Interchange Boulevard um so big item we want to discuss first first is flood zone so this site is in the flood zone it is in flood zone AE it is also a portion of it is in the regulatory floodway um what we are doing for right now is we are performing a flood study we have hired an outside consultant that works with FEMA and they are performing a flood study on this site which will'll basically look at the entire Basin look at what it does now what elevations it rises to using the FEMA flood model and then also we'll plug in our site to see how it impacts the overall development around us anything near us and then of course what what our site does um within us um what we will do from Zev Cen standpoint to help help their report is where we calculate the existing storage within the site so Penny kind of mentioned the compensating storage that's provided so the existing site um basically provides storage from the existing ground up to the FEMA flood elevation so if you can imagine let's just say the existing grounds at 25 the FEMA flood elevation at 30 so that 5T of storage is the storage that is provided on site whenever a flood event happens so we have to compensate for that so we have to calculate that 5T times whatever acreage that is and make sure that our compensating storage ponds has at least equal volume if not more we are not allowed to increase the flood elevations um within the within the the FEMA flood maps um based on the flood model that happens so when they complete the study they will say okay here's the previous flood elevation and here's the final flood elevation that cannot be increased by an inch and fale will review that the city will review that and vucha County will review that so we'll have three reviews of that everybody will look at it and make sure that it you know passes the test explain what that means P the explain what that means the elevation or so so basically they so they're going to model the 100-year storm event and and they'll see what level the water reaches with that and that is the flood elevation typically so in this case it is 27.5 for most of it so they've determined the flood elevation note the 100e storm is 27.5 they will model that in predevelopment to make sure it is at that to verify it and then we'll plug in our site and our proposed development with our compensating storage ponds and to see to to confirm that the level within the b19 canal does not go above 27.5 so it'll be at 27.5 or below so then you can't Elevate the properties we cannot Elevate the flood elevation okay so we can can Elevate the property we can Elevate the property yes so we are filling in the storage that's on property but we are digging to compensate for that storage loss basically so in Penny's presentation because I'll go ahead and ask you to touch on it when you get to point I mean I'm sorry but you're fine when uh in Penny's presentation she talked about current conditions now when the b19 overflows it overflows onto parcel one it it overflows all of them and I'm going to get into that okay sure sorry about that so so existing conditions that that was actually my next next point so course it was during a normal rain event this is normal rain event um for existing conditions you know parcel one um it flows north to the Pelican Bay canal and is interconnected with their overall system which is connected by Weir to the b19 canal that's parcel one parcel two flows to on-site Wetlands into the on-site borrow pit and storm water pond that's there and then if the stage is high enough it will overflow to the b19 canal as well parcel 3 flows to onside wetlands and ditches and then um again if this if the level gets high enough it will it will stage up into the 19 Canal so what happens during a flooding event is Spruce Creek um ra Rises up and then it backs up the b19 canal all of that flow comes up the b19 canal when it rains it's got nowhere to go then it comes over the b19 canal and into the existing Wetlands into that existing Barrow pit into the existing low-lying areas on our site so and the Pelican Bay Canal um so actually so just to further that when it goes into the north of meline it goes over the we into the Pelican Bay drainage system and then overflows into into parcel one um parcel two it just overflows the b19 canal and then drains into parcel two and then parcel 3 it overflows B9 Canal drains into the wetlands and onsite ditches ditches there in proposed conditions so what we're going to do um parcel one parcel one is going to have no compensating storage on it it's going to have its own storm water system though so we will model the 100-year event to make sure that we do not increase the rate of discharge so basically that is for attenuation we will model the rate that leaves the site of storm water and we are not allowed to increase that as well as the peak stage within parcel 2 that will have a small storm water system to serve the commercial and the amenity that's put there and then it'll have a large um compensating storage Pond that will serve as that extra storage for the flood events and then parcel 3 will be strictly compensating storage um so when that b19 Canal overflows it'll have more storage to flow into during the flood event um as b19 overflows so it's going to come up the b19 canal and then it's going to overflow again into partial two will be where it overflows first we have that large pond now right along the bank that will basically compensate for all of the impacts on parcel two and then when it comes under mateline it'll overflow to parcel 3 which will compensate for all the impacts to parcel one and initial calculations so we performed initial calculations on this we haven't performed the full flood study yet but initial calculations of cup for cup is what we call it we find out let's just say actually I have the numbers so this one was 142 acre feet of storage that's how much storage of compensating that's how much flood storage is provided existing 142 acre feet we our our proposed compensating storage ponds provide around 162 acre feet so we're about 20 acre feet above what's required um that's initial calculations we still need to verify that as we get in but that's you know after we perform the flood study we'll be able to nail that down but that's where we're at right now is we hope to make the overall flood Basin better in in addition to compensating for what we impact and I'll pass it to Mark to go over traffic now and I'll be back for questions yes you will okay so I'm GNA like I said I'm going to kind of play the the traffic engine here and give you a little bit of a summary of what we've done because you know as as I think you heard with regard to Chris's presentation just now on traffic or on storm water um we're giving you a lot more information at the zoning stage than we typically would and that's been something that you know based on the conversations we've had with your staff through the course of the past year as we've been working on this plan and getting it here um we've been given some very good advice to make sure that we're focused on resolving some of these issues and how you know the the development of the property in the manner that we're proposing you know includes some some additional benefits um you know for some of the issues that we know are the hot button issues with regard to storm water and things like traffic so one of the other things that we've done is we've gone a lot further than we typically would at this stage um with regard to our traffic review and our traffic analysis and and this is one of the exhibits that um was created based on that additional analysis that's been performed at this point in time and I'll tell you from the beginning this is very likely to change what staff asked us to do was say okay if you took the existing road conditions today and you put all of this traffic on the road with this project being built bu out and you continue to grow the background rate of increase in traffic at the same time what are the intersections and segments and other things that you would need to look at fixing in order to to kind of you know keep traffic flowing or improve the flow of traffic through the overall Network and so this was a preliminary list um Lasser you know did the analysis went through and looked at you know the existing you know road conditions the the you know the growth um in the area um adding in the the you know the additional trips from this and said here's the things that you may need to either fix or contribute to to additional projects that would fix either intersections or segments and we've got 11 or 12 different 13 different you know projects that came up here as part of that list I think the staff has already presented a couple of those are are in your list that you've already gone to the TPO with with regard to trying to provide some funding on that so this is this is likely to be a dynamic list for a period of time and that's really how it's intended to be um you know the way that this property develops you know if you know we move forward with the zoning this evening you don't have 873 units that come in at at a single point in time you have you know probably a 5 to 10 year buildout overtime of different phases of that that then get up to your maximum numbers established in your PD and you add in the commercial and things of that nature so while that's happening you know the city or the county or others may do some of these additional projects um we may have other things that join the list that we focus on and we um you know move forward and partner with the city and the county to make sure our funded or constructed um but you know this is that kind of preliminary look in addition we that study you know kind of gave us right around the site what are the likely you know improvements that that would be needed so we've got you know things like the you know um intersection improvements you know for meline the widening you know of meline uh coming through all the way to to Williamson um additional turn Lanes you know through Lanes on Williamson at the intersection and even the potential for a signal because if you recall our site plan and the way that we've got our traffic there is an additional kind of road Private road that comes along here and intersects with Williamson so that may be a a path that diverts some of that traffic directly under Williamson and may justify a light at at some point in time the other thing that they we were asked to do is really kind of look at where the traffic you know kind of again conceptual at this point in time where the traffic goes um um and so this is kind of that distribution you know we talked about there being you know the access points onto mine the access points onto Williamson so we show about and these are all looking at the peak hour AM and PM peak hour but about 37% of the trips go north about 18% go south on Williamson and then you know in this section because you got some coming to that intersection there's about 55% that come on to meline and go to Williamson and then about 44.8% that go on to and then go to Clyde Morris so that's again that's preliminary now this isn't the only time we looking at traffic um as I mentioned we've done a lot more in the zoning stage than we typically would we will essentially have to go back and redo all of it um and do it in partnership with the county as well because the county and the and the city work together to make sure that we're kind of looking at everything that each of the jurisdictions want to do um with regard to Road improvements in the area and we know for example Williamson is funded um the the for laning from meline North to Beville we're already in conversation with the county for things like collocation of storm water ponds and things where we can create Partnerships and help uh make sure that that infrastructure continues to be built we've had conversations with them about additional things that may join that list as we move forward with you know the the future development of this property let me just throw in right here because the County's plan is to expand Williamson for to four lanes from meline to bble road so those conversations they will need storm water uh runoff to do that that's correct and the great thing is that that I'm sorry I'm scrolling around here that is a funded project now so and and it's in design thank you Amazon and they yeah it is in design and that's one of the things that the county has already reached out and is working with with us and our clients um you know both the cros family properties and others to look at you know those again those storm water sites and the interesting thing about that opportunity is also where are the connection points going to be because one of the things that you know I think as a as a council sitting up here you hate to see is you go through and do a big road project and then you got something that comes in next to it and they come back and they tear up again what you just did and they they then you know kind of build something else in it or do an add an additional turn lane so one of the things that the county likes to do and the city likes to do is if they know what the plans are if they know where our driveway connections are going to be things of that nature then we can work together so that those turn Lanes can go in at the beginning of the project and we don't have to come back and then tear up the road that they just built and put a now put a turn light into it um I had another point and this I'll I'll close on this one and and open up for any questions but you know when we when we were planning board you know when I when I when we were presenting this to planning board last month U I guess now two months ago five weeks ago January um one of the things that just really stood out to me and and we highlighted it earlier on but it's the red and the yellow versus the green and the blue right you know the the amount of you green and blue in the project here the amount of open space again 76% of the overall site but if you think about some of you know the parcels and the way that it's clustered you know on parcel one I think we we calculated earlier today I think our overall open space on the property that we would put all of the density on and the majority of the commercial development we're still at 52% open space on that parcel parcel two down U next to town park um 92% so you've got a a parcel right now that would have a you know really mostly you know single family residential development under the existing zoning instead being 92% open space and parcel 3 100% 100% open space on a parcel that under you know kind of the existing zoning would be so much substantially less um again going back to that other exhibit the red and the yellow are what's developed under the current zoning um you know I've got a couple of things that I'd wrap up with you know kind of at the end of comments and once we hear if there's anything we need to answer any other questions that come from the citizens um we've had a lot of success with citizen engagement through this process we had a great meeting back in October um we actually even had another meeting uh two weeks ago with u the the Jason HOAs we went out to their neighborhood meeting and or their annual meeting and presented and um answered some of their questions so um you know I appreciate everybody's you know time and energy and effort in this your staff you know first and foremost uh and your time and energy tonight um so we're here for any questions you might might have and if I can reserve a few minutes to come back up and respond to any other questions that may come from the community I think that that's more than reasonable I think at this point we're going to go round robin with us and we're going to grill all you guys okay then we are definitely going to hear from the public and then after we hear from the public you're going to get grilled yet again sounds good but since we have all that forthcoming uh what I want Council to do is we've just uh been fed with a fire hose so I want us to consider what we have uh uh been uh what we've uh just absorbed and let's do that over a recess of seven minutes in length as of right now we are in recess for 7 minutes 6 minutes and 59 seconds you're under the and we are back at this point we've had a extensive presentation from both staff and from the developer and uh from on many different segments of the project whether it be traffic or or whether it be uh storm water management or or design and layout of the project itself uh we're going to begin with the uh uh inquisitive nature this Council off off I should say awfully has uh certainly has when it comes to things like this we haven't had many things like this recently and and and we do know that since we don't own the property and somebody else does it's not a question of if something gets built there it's a matter of what and when and how so Mark if you'll forgive me if uh we seem to uh be pressing for for answers uh I do appreciate one approach and we've had this happen historically in the past uh you probably haven't seen this as much gentlemen because you haven't been here as long as us but there are many times a developer will come before us and say uh we haven't got that part yet because we're not required to yet and you're ahead of the game and that's very helpful for us us because the last thing we want to do is fly fly blind so with that uh uh councilman Bastion why don't you start all right I want to start with Zev con Chris you're on so Chris I'm sorry I forgot your name it's okay so you explained about the current acre feet of FL flood control or or storage yep storage and so can you explain how and unless I'm missing something here currently 140 acre feet now and you're proposing I think you said 162 or 166 so how does that happen can you explain to me and everybody um because you're going to create impervious space about 25% roughly and SE 70 I'm just rounding 75% is going to be open so how do you increase the acre feet capacity when you're making some of that property impervious sure so um so 140 acre feet if you imagine so 140 Acres a foot deep is one way you could look at it but in this scenario it you know the site actually is what 49 Acres so it is about that but how we increase storage is we go deeper so those ponds will be basically the the existing ground you have storage until you hit the water table so the existing ponds or the existing ground out there right now is let's say elevation 25 but the water table is at 23 so we got an extra 3T of storage there so we divide that 140 by another 3et by digging it we go down further so our storage is now lower instead of horizontally we go vertical okay right and the it's reading the the material it's all going to be one drainage system instead of it's not going to be going willy-nilly everywhere it's going to be more directed towards that b19 canal and across or under Williamson yeah so the the ones on the ones on parcel 2 there there is no there's no pipe connection there yeah but we it is connected over by Overland flow so we'll maintain that basically so as it overflows it'll go right into that so that's how that water will get right off the property right but then with parcel three that one's connected through Wetlands then goes which discharges to the adjacent ditches which the other residential flows through um so we'll basically maintain that existing drainage patterns Okay so that's that's the goal with all storm and art systems we have to whever it discharges to now we have to maintain that yeah so and I do like in you know so it's not all bad I do like in this proposal where parcel 3 there's going to be no construction on it correct yep it will be storage basically for the water so um okay that was the the the one thing I I just wasn't following how you get but you're going much deeper right and it's going to be more uh you know put a lot of it's going to be on three yes exactly okay what else you got Drew uh the only other one I had you know my concern with this is the traffic on Williamson you and I touched on this back there the the the big you know the four laning to the north will help right but then we're going to have that stretch between there and the I95 overpass that isn't four laned and and my concern is that choke point of the I95 overpass into the future so that hasn't really been addressed but I I I I don't think at this particular time it it's probably valid to address it but it's a major concern that as that road in that area becomes more crowded that's only going to get worse and only going to be more expensive to correct correct and and and I said it you know kind of the outset when we started talking about traffic you know we've done we've done more than you typically have at this point in time agree but we don't know all the answers yet and and the answers we we have today may change as we go forward because other things may get funded you know so um you know what I can tell you is um ultimately when we take the next steps in your process so I I've said in the beginning we're not here seeking to avoid the responsibility that comes after this step um in fact we're we're looking forward to working through that that next piece of it um one of the things that that you'll see again you know so you know with your process you know we've got you know zoning which is the step we're at now and we come back into the either subdivision review or site plan process and ultimately you know construction requires a development order before we can go out and actually start turning dirt right a development order can't be issued until we've gone through all of that traffic analysis for the you know development proposal that's moving forward and either constructed specific improvements that the city and the county and all the agencies agree that that need to be constructed um or contribute to the construction of other improvements or both um and so things like the you know design and construction of of you know Williamson for laning going down to to Willow Run for example those are some of the things that could be in the mix of you know items that we end up talking with the city and the county about as we move forward with that you know Yorktown you know and the extension being completed ultimately is another thing that improves the connections without going over the choke point of the bridge the bridge is going to take Federal money or state money ultimately because of the numbers there um but there's a whole lot of things that we can do and and I think you know part of the analysis there's signal timing there's intersection improvements that can significantly improve things while we're waiting for money to come you know from Washington or Tallahassee for the bridge reconstruction and that package of things comes back to you in the prop share process so that you see that before we get our development order you get to look at that as a council make sure that you're satisfied with it that we're satisfying your requirements and and mitigating um for those traffic concerns so again we're we're ahead of where we typically would be but there's more to come and you'll see it again before it gets a green light gets turned on for any development in regards to the overpass make sure that it's on everybody's radar as you I I just want to I mean I can't stress that enough for many many many reasons yeah that that's that's the the problem of the whole thing absolute valid point we we had a project over on the west side of the county that got approve a few weeks ago and in the very beginning of that project there was a roundabout that wasn't funded and nobody had the money to pay for it and we got state and federal funding that came in in the intervening couple of years and it's starting construction this month so yeah we coordination is I think one of the keys of of this whole process okay you good for now yes sir for now Scott Penny I actually I had some questions for Penny if you wanted to come back up sure she does sure she does did you earmark that section I also told Tim to ear mark it what what did you say I said I also told Tim to ear mark it nice kind of go back through that section of your report for me again okay you went through so much information do you want me to pull the slide back up for you yeah please let me just get to where that that is so we can have it I think it was this one that we were we were talking about yep yeah so um so this one we were talking about the just the distribution about the split north and south on Williamson and the split on meline and how because of the the mixture of uses the the multif family and the commercial and how that creates um some internal capture and passby trips that it's actually going to end up decreasing the peak hour traffic but because of the actual construction and increase in commercial you do have an increase in overall daily trips but those trips are spread out during non- peak hours because of the type of uses that are proposed and and who comes up with those numbers it traffic and the Traffic Engineers def help because I think this is going to be an important conversation so the we use cities use developers use we all use the Institute of Transportation Engineers documents for statistical analysis of traffic and for modeling we have to use them because you want to be consistent you want to have some form of math so you're not making emotional decisions which you're making decisions off of some form of statistical analysis so they go out and study these uses you know 20 30 different places and come back and run and and I haven't had a statistics class for 30 something years since I was in college but regression analysis that allows you to say if you have 50,000 Square ft of this you'll get about this many cars so the generation of cars whether it's from a single family house or an apartment unit or a retail store is a fairly standard number that's well well mathematically lined out we have been using them cities use them that's how we plan in our comprehensive plans that's how we all use it's not just developers doing it to make projects work it's governments as well so that we're all on the same page and we're consistent so your tpos are doing it and so the total trip generation is a fairly standard mathematical equation if you have 873 single family houses this is how many cars you're going to get statistically in an average 24-hour period a peak hour if you switch it to apartment statistically it is less number of cars because you typically have less persons per household again a statistic per per unit than you do in a single family and they have less trips because they typically have different ages so you're not having as many children uh and so that's where you see the difference in your peak hour trips because the apartments are lowering the numbers so the net increase in traffic by they're basically just it's eight the number of residential units stays the same on this project so what what's different here is the type of unit so they're almost they're all apartments now as opposed to a mixture of single family and multif family and then you're adding the 40,000 square F feet of commercial uses and then based on those uses there's not a lot of am trip so there's not you're not seeing a whole ton of like Dunkin Donuts or something that would draw a bunch of people in there in the morning and some of that would be the pass by so your real your net difference in traffic over what they could do if they just built with what they've got now and what they're proposing to do is really the reduction due to it being multif family and then the increase due to the commercial components and so that's where they ended up with in the rush hours in the morning at 8 and in the evenings at 5: and it's a little broader than that you have fewer cars coming from what's being proposed than than you would if they just built it the way it is but throughout the course of the day more people are likely to go there so it's it's really just a statistical analysis of what is common for that type of use and that's an international database that's done by Traffic Engineers all over the world so then what we're saying is compared to the current zoning 800 and however many homes was it eight it's the same number of units 8733 it's just a different type compared to that by going to a higher density in a smaller place with the same residential units a different type right so single family versus multi different type and then adding 40,000 square ft of commercial we're projecting that that is less traffic trips during the peak hour but could be overall more traffic trip throughout the course of the day correct just just like what wait said so the the change in the type of use from single family to multi family brings the peak down the addition of the commercial brings the overall daily up and to some to some degree it's there there's a little bit of you don't know what you don't know right I mean if I mean I'm not picking businesses just but just for an example because I think if you live in Port Orange we see this right if you put a Chick-fil-A and a WWA there compared to a Burger King and a Circle K it's night and day and trips and busyness and all that kind of stuff right so you don't know and 40 40,000 40,000 square ft trying to like so that's like if you were to look at the 40,000 that's like you know where the Panera Bread is oh yeah it's like two of those buildings right and then the 10,000 if you pull out the 10,000 that's like the multif family where the the chicken t a chick just as a a comparison that everybody's familiar with okay all right when I think if I'm not mistaken like Walmart Neighborhood Market is about 38 to 40,000 square feet so that would be the total of it on the two Parcels okay okay thanks for clarifying that for me me you're welcome um see here you know some some of them there aren't really questions as much as they are um just just concerns and I I guess I'll just note those and then if you if you want to comment on Mark you're welcome to um project project scope just looking at some and pulling up some rough numbers if you take all of the three largest subdivisions that surround this property excluding Pelican Bay because that's not ours but Town Park Sunset coover and the Groves at 680 residential units doesn't even come close to what we're talking about putting a really really small area on this property and then adding the 40,000 and I'm trying to wrap my my head around what's that going to look like you know because to I mean and I appreciate what the city manager was was talking about and there's agencies and organizations they provide these numbers and these numbers of the foundation to go by but from a resident perspective there's a little bit of an eye test there's a little bit of a of a we live here we know we feel we see already we're we're overly concerned already and and and you know I I look at the project and I I I I give you guys a tremendous amount of credit because I see a lot of things in the project that make a lot of fundamental sense I love the fact of of taking a lot of the project partials off of parcel one homes off parcel one and moving them away from those folks who live in the Groves already back up to the p19 canal I already have those issues I like the part of taking the project and pushing it away from town park right you know I I like that stuff I like I I see the benefit in creating more open space even that that means we've got to go vertical right and that's a really hard thing for Florida residents to get used to because that's if you've lived here for the last 30 40 50 years that's not really what we've seen in in Florida and I get times change Trends change development changes Concepts change and all that stuff it's just it's wrestling with that in the mind and then trying to anticipate you know what what are going to be the hurdles that we don't see what don't we know you're always trying to outthink what you don't know but what we do know is we already have a tremendous amount of traffic concerns right we already have a t tremendous amount of concerns over storm water I know it's funny and this is not any knock on any of you guys but every time I hear somebody mention the hundred-year storm yeah I'm like God I feel like I'm 54 years old and I've been to six of them you know and and and for those that don't know what a 100-year storm really truly means is not that the storm's going to happen every 100 years it means you have a 1% chance every year that it's going to happen right so um and I hear from a ton of residents you know concerns over vertical you know something being so high 65 ft there's nothing like that anywhere in that particular region or Corridor of the city there's a lot of other growth and development that's projected and planned that's outside of our scope in Daytona right and um that's a great balancing act because if you don't go up high you go out and then what's that you have more sprawl right and and and I know it's a it's trying to to pick what is going to fit best because something is is going to be here there will be development I I understand all of that so some of that is just wrestling with the mine um trying to figure that out and of course the the commercial part of it that concerns me a lot because 40,000 ft is a lot of commercial and we don't know what it's going to be and so when we look at projected traffic numbers depending on what goes in there you know if it's mostly medical offices and stuff like that right there's not huge traffic rushes in the morning sure but there could be businesses like the list you guys put up when you look at that business and you try to Envision what you see in East Valia County now a few of these and a few of that now all of a sudden you've got a lot of demand early in the morning type of a thing or or trips throughout the day and so anyway more concerns at this point than specific questions just want to you know mention what I was talking about I appreciate you you helping us break down the b19 part of it because that's a critical part of the infrastructure um you know we we feel in Port Orange that everything already flows South so whatever is happening in Daytona and those projects is coming to P orange some way somehow because it's got to go out P CET eventually right and so you can retain so much until it overflows and then retaining it doesn't exist anymore cuz now it's set free and whatever the Topography of the land is takes control we already have a lot of water that flows at us from Daytona because they have no alcohol yeah those are those are just comments for now you can no here's what I want to do I want when you say concerns or whatever and allow them to comment usually what I normally do is like go through everybody and let you comment at the end I'd rather do it right now as we go sure uh to to keep the flow going so we don't miss anything so if you want to comment right now briefly I can so let me let me do two things um one um to the point of you know this is this is a little bit different than than what you have anywhere else in the area and this is a little bit different one of the things that when I was going through when we were going through the comp plan and looking at your policies and and how you've planned in your long-term planning to to deal with growth and things of that nature when you did your last comp plan you said there's 80% of the city is already built out and the remaining 20% % we ought to approach differently and one of the specific policies that you adopted was policy uh 4.1.3 which said to help meet its goals for sustainable development the city will encourage developers to pursue creative alternatives to Conventional Suburban development patterns including Innovative housing designs clustering and conservation subdivision design well-connected grided Street networks context sensitive Street configurations alternative p uh pavement types and compact mixed use development you have said in your planning documents do things differently with the remaining property that's here and I think that's an important it is it's a transition um we're dealing with uh downtown to land about six blocks from my house we've got the first large you know apartment style building going up in downtown in the 40 years since we said that was our primary goal as a community to build that in downtown people love it people hate it you know it's it's all over the place it's changing what that feels like and it really feels good because we're bringing into an area of downtown there more people to support the businesses there that you know will will again help help that thrive that kind of Transitions and and connects to the the traffic comment that that you made and I and I appreciate Wayne's you know extraordinarily accurate description of how the process works with the it and everything else and Penny's information to me I just want to make give you a real simple example of of what it means to have that mixed use and and what the effect is so different housing types right average house creates 10 trips a day average apartment creates creates six so by reducing those numbers you're reducing the amount of traffics that traffic being generated from the project to begin with but you've got the commercial the reason when you when penny made the statement in our traffic numbers show that the peak hour trips go down but the average daily trips go up so let me give you the the simple example that came to mind for me when I get up you know you leave your house you're going to go to work but you have to stop and get coffee on the way you have to stop and drop your dry cleaning off when you do mixed use that first trip doesn't leave the site and so that rush hour trip stays on site is I just go downstairs and I drop my dry cleaning off or I go around the corner I walk to get coffee and I leave a little bit later because I don't now have to do that on the way to work so that's the purpose of mixed juice you're capturing that and you're not having that traffic leave during that peak hour now you've got something like a restaurant maybe you're going to have lunch people that come there now and so that's why your ADT goes up but your peak hours go down that was the simple answer that came to or simple example that came to mind for me you're changing that pattern of of behavior if you will short some trips yeah potentially yes sorry again Jessica G COV Law Firm there were just a few other tiny things I wanted to say in response to kind of the concerns raised um briefly yes very brief I'm fast um for trip generation in terms of that scope of uses what the the Traffic Engineers I just want to point out they've got that that whole scope and they don't know what could be developed yet like you said so they picked the the worst highest generator out of that whole list they say that they pick the chickf life right restaurant with the drive-through is probably the highest um or shopping center if it was larger and they say we assume that all 40,000 ft is going to be this Highest Potential generator so that they're looking at the worst case so that it could be under that I just want to point that out um on the height and the transition again I just want to point out the the visual impact based on distance um compared to just height alone and so when we have those those Drone footage and we were talking with the Architects the shot that we provided that shows kind of that surrounding area that's Santa Claus's perspective on the roof and so when you look at actual where the units would lay the balconies would be shorter in terms of view out um but in terms of view in we have that perspective shot that shows if you're standing here if you're 30t away it's a presentence right but if you're 120 ft away on average it looks much less impactful that's what we've been aiming for for the development and my last one is just on the local traffic I drive down madin every single day two ways either out to Dand or down to Daytona and so I drive that all the time and the simple fix of adding the striping when they repave meline has changed my dayto day it is amazing and so that's you know one of those small traffic improvements that just has a huge impact on how traffic flows through there can you address didn't you prohibit drive-throughs on all the commercial uses we did so that's going to Wi out your Chick-fil-A and your major trip I'm not against Chick-fil-A hang on a second better be careful for the record for the record they put they do really well busy no that is definitely true I'll be getting email what do you got against nothing nothing at all it's good where it is what else you got that's it for right now okay Tracy what you got for us so first we got go to uh Chris I got a question for you I know you've uh touched on the b19 when you go to parcel three that elated parcel those are individual lakes that are overflowed to b19 or are they part of b19 so they'll be hydraulically connected to b19 okay yeah and the reason for the brakes is that's the existing drainage patterns that flow through we're not going to impede on those and make sure they continue to flow that way okay yeah it's a it's a deep concern I mean um my my commuter backs up to the back side of Sunset and town park and when Ian went through and we've been there for 29 years now and we've never had water in the gutters and four feet going across the Sunset Cove Bridge it's it's a greatly a big concern seeing B B9 out do what it did yeah um so yeah that's we just want to see how that hydrology was going to work for that yeah and and it's great that they'll be basically right next to the b19 because if you imagine when parcel one is used for compensating storage it has to flood into Pelican Bay Pelican Bay stages up and then flows to parcel one whereas this is going to be right there boom over top it's going to be the storage is going to be right next to it okay is that dry storage um it'll be a combination of dry or wet okay depending on what basically we if we need it for fill we might dig some Down Deeper to get some fill out of it or it could just be scrape down and be nice um like a dry storage okay so now we're going to go to parcel to okay yeah parel two that backs up to the back side of town park I I've talked to some residents of town park and that section has always been a low-lying area Town Park gets that section muddy all the way sure all the time and I know it well cuz I ride my mountain bike through there all the time and bury up it's it's not a fun thing so I already know it's it's wet back there you guys are taking and digging that and existing into the already Lake that's there yes um so how do you guarantee the elevation of being evened out so it's not going to and I know it's engineering 101 so I'm not that inept but making sure that we have the back side not back flowing back into town park so it of course it's it's the model so it's goes back to the transportation you know this will be modeled there's there's a Master model basically FEMA has a a model of the whole area I know I'm saying Model A lot it's a model but FEMA has a model of the whole area and what are the Gemini is the name of the company they actually work with FEMA and for FEMA on occasion they will modify that model to match what existing conditions are because those models are they're old and so they'll go out there and verify every pipe every ditch every um every canal in the area to make sure that it is correct and then update it and then put our site into it so it's the most accurate model that we could get and then it'll it'll it'll model where that stage goes within that pond basically and we are not allowed to increase it so the city and I forgot one actually the city County FEMA and the Water Management District will all verify that that elevation is not increased okay because it's it's the great concern we we add more space but then ultimately it fills up and it drains the wrong way now it's in the back of the homes that we were trying to protect and we'll have to maintain all of those drainage patterns so if those homes flow to that Wetland we will have to accept that flow into our ponds okay so those will be maintain and I think that's where you're going with that is how do we make it better yep yep for the people that are already there and then uh lastly this is going to be a mark question so you get off the hook on this one dealing with parel two go far one of my my great concerns of parel 2 is yes y'all y'all shrank down everything you did more water management on it and that's fantastic but you got 10,000 square feet of commercial how do we go about making sure that the commercial is within normal daylight hours let's say from 7 to 10 that way we're not dealing with uh bike week behind somebody's house so like 7: a.m. to 10: p.m. is the correct so you can commonly put hours of operation into a PD and I think you know here if you wanted to add a restriction of some type on parcel to happy to do that okay I mean I think that's reasonable the the concept here again is neighborhood commercial and so this is really that parcel in particular that t ,000 ft is really intended to provide an opportunity not only for our future residents on parcel one but for every other neighborhood to be able to have a place to walk and get coffee or to grab a you know a sandwich at lunch or something for dinner or something like that we would be happy to incorporate hours of operations so that concerns address ultimately you guys have tooken partial three and partial two and really took the residence around the area that was already existing and and and allowed that to uh better and hearing it from Chris also is bettering the water management for their properties so I'm happy to see that I mean when I when I first started reading it and 60% and then in Open Spaces turned into 76 Nobody Does that today they're always trying to cut it down and get shorter corners and utilize every space possible so staff is to be commended for doing that and I appreciate that thank you absolutely you good Reed oh man have we left anything for you well I mean you got to go after me so I feel really bad for you Don uh no literally first thing I had written down was what if it's a Chick-fil-A 3,000 square feet so I I swear to you that is on my Note right here drive through it it's funny there's there's a first off this is the most complex one of these I've only gotten to do two of these I believe previously so this is definitely more complex than the first two um but just what question here that Tracy asked talks about to to me why puds can be really good is because there are extra things you can put in there like hours of operation and you can negotiate this because whenever we have these things come before us my my concern is what if we if it gets declined where do we end up you know what ends up going in um there was we had a different project where if we didn't pass what was passed then we're were going to end up with a bunch of duplexes and and that was a complete mess uh that we would have ended up with so I I do think there's a lot to like about this project um my first question that I have uh actually is for Jessica about the categories you talked about 40,000 square feet they pick the highest so so if it's if restaurants the highest because your commercial is in two different Lots is it 40,000 for the whole project they're saying because and I don't know what the highest is I don't know if that's restaurant or or whatever it is do they see that as 30,000 for the one and 10,000 for the other is it the same category either way so part of it will come down to I will say at this phase what we have analyzed the pre and post is total 40,000 square fet at once and I'll say because it's restaurant without drive-thru that's probably not the highest generator it's probably retail sales and service not a traffic engineer but I read their reports a bunch um and the shopping center used that they capture that retail sales and service it's separated into um less than 30,000 sare F feet and over 30,000 s feet of course the over 30,000 would have a higher generator than that less than so when you're looking at the 40 overall that's probably what they used I'm going to as that by saying when we get into the site plan level of design when we do the full Tia um the the pod on the other side of mateline would probably be its own site plan right it's its own kind of pocket commercial there so they'd have their own analysis that would then use whatever is developed in that footprint for the very specific review okay because because I will say I think it's it's all of us have been trying to wrap our heads around the idea of how peak hour trips can go down but I I I understand it because actually where I live is walking distance to Salsas and puix and rossies and I will tell you that multiple times a week instead of driving my truck to Publix for you know a handful of groceries i' walk or ride my bike and you know it's because I live so close to those things so one less person way on the road so there there's your eye test right because I I live there and I experienced and even I can't wrap my head around it entirely so it's it's hard for me to understand because you know another 1300 trips obviously over the other thing but I also understand most of that's probably just the fact you're talking about adding 40,000 square feet of commercial you know so um that's my only question as far as the traffic goes I think most of the issues traffic wise are not really in your control you know we talked about Williamson and all the other things so I don't really have a lot of traffic questions for you guys I my thing is flooding obviously um I've been really concerned about water retention and I've talked to a lot of residents that seems to be their biggest the biggest concern right because it's one thing to have to sit behind one extra car at a red light is another thing to have water in your home and and so that's the thing that I want to ask can you as I understand and I want to make sure understand this very confidently and short and sweet for the record whenever this project is done will you will the properties combined hold more of the same or but obviously you can't go less so it's going to hold the exact same amount of water is it going to hold more water than does today so let me answer do the simple answer and and the engineer can correct me if he needs to um I think from a from a legal standpoint we can't hold anything less than what we currently hold what we're anticipating we have to go through the floodway study and everything else what we're anticipating is we will ultimately hold more and that's how this site plan has been put together specifically that's been a specific Focus because of the concerns about FL right because when we talk about 76% open space as again as I interpret it that's basically you know 24% of non- impervious you know so so that's your concrete that's your your sidewalks your parking your your buildings right but but trees grass you know and Retention Ponds would all fall under that 76% so I I would like to you know that that's my main thing is is really concern about the water you know U which i' I've already expressed this before um and so I I just want to make sure I'm touching on that and I also understand there's a possibly that 10,000 square ft could end up on Williamson where you have 40,000 ft of commercial yes there and and basically nothing on parcel 2 except for retention that's a possibility that that could happen and again we'll know more about that as we go through that site plan process well I will say and and just for the record and and publicly advocating um from the residents I've talked to that are living in there they seem to be much more like it seems like the favorability of this project overall becomes more and more uh to a positive side when they talk about that being all commercial being over on Williamson and keeping off of meline and having the even maybe more water retention obviously more green space in that area right um when I every resident that I've spoken to that seems to be the the key thing to them so you know not not that I'm here to try and force you or say that I'm not going to support this project because of that 10,000 ft being there but the residents that I spoke to have made it pretty clear that they would prefer it over on Williamson yeah and we certainly understand that and I think again what we're trying to do is you know kind of follow the guide of your planning at the end of the day it may all end up over on the Williamson side and that's very likely well I think Common Sense is a business person wants to be in in the higher traffic area any right which is wh absolutely and and but main thing is just to make sure every I want to make sure people who reach out know they're being heard I want them to know that's our job we take all that in consideration as well as our own opinions and so you know um but I think you guys have you've done something really unique here and and a lot of it impresses me it really does obviously I have my concerns but but at the same time I think that the the care that has gone into this and the approach has been really commendable thank you and one thing that I do like too is is that you continued to work at this as we you've gotten feedback from from us from residents and the light um I walked backyards in Sunrise Oaks up against the b19 canal after in and it was scary and not just leaving that area alone but actually improving that area as far as storm water retention means a lot to me for those residents there is we don't build anything we don't get those improvements and frankly um if it were up to me we'd be done but that you that that that doesn't work we keep having babies we make Sunshine people want to move to Florida um and if we build more houses then we also have sprawl which is something that uh we're suffering from right now particularly in in some of our neighboring areas to the North and the South of us uh uh with with how with housing exploding the way it is um we've reached a mat mature point in our development as a city so um uh instead of figuring out what we can do to grow out we have to figure out what to do and grow within so I am very appreciative of the uh emphasis on storm water I also know that you say 74% open space some of our uh guidelines uh cities around us have guidelines that are in a 30 to 50% range uh and that's well in excess of some of the things our neighbors ask for and I hope that this can be an examp example um and like I said before I don't know if it's if something's going to be built there since we don't own it something's going to be built there so how do we get the concessions uh how do we get the things we need that to address people that are already there and I I appreciate your responsiveness to that um unless you have any other comments I do want to open it up to the public right now I will allow you to come back and respond to them uh I want to go through all of their comments and I'm not going to call you up individually after each one I want you to to to listen to everything uh so that you take in all their comments and that you can respond accordingly so at this point public participation is open and if anybody would like to come up and speak to the item now is the time come on Robert okay tell you what once youall line up you get three minutes each so like the next person who wants to come up be ready come on in you you know how this works I can tell love it tell us who are and where you live right Lisa Hutchinson and I live in the Groves M and um I'm just wrot I I attended the the meeting back in October and I was here at the last meeting whatever was January wasn't it we were here and I'm just bringing again concerns from where I live just some things for them to also Ponder um I know we hear about I know the b19 Overflow and I've lived in the Grove since 98 so for the first time that was the first time you know there was flooding on the street I fortunately it wasn't up into my you know house or anything like that but you know the ponds came over meline as well so I didn't know where where we are as a city in terms of those ponds that are in the Groves area you know they go up and then of course across the street for me people have the canal behind their houses and a colony in the wood the poor people there that's the other thing that I know it's everybody's thought so I'm just I am appreciative of anything to help with that so thank you um I I I don't know the answer to this so I'm asking this so maybe someone here can tell me how does the number of how do the apartments benefit the um property value of homeowners that are in single family dwellings I don't know the answer to that maybe somebody could let me know that cu there's all these apartments going up so I don't know how's that benefiting me as my value of property for my home that's something maybe could somebody could tell me later um the other thing uh the commercial the commercial aspect I really like the possibility if you say you can keep it all over there on Williamson but I think about that empty spot that's on the corner of Williamson that's been there and nothing's happening with it um that would be a concern for me for residents if we have a small commercial lot on meline and what if there's nothing going in and then there there's something there but then maybe there's not I know it's all in the future but who wants to look at an empty commercial unit I'm just saying nobody really enjoys seeing the one on the corner there right now at least in my neighborhood nobody cares to look at it um but I did want to also bring up about if they can Elevate the property on um section parcel one when you're elevating property that's still going to isn't that going to create run off a certain amount more of runoff I'm just asking I don't know but if it they can Elevate the property then it's got to run somewhere and I just keep thinking about these people and colony in the wood because you know the Grove sits here and colony in the woods down there and so anything that of course can be done to continue with the the plans I really like the idea of creating more possibility for the water storage and that but I'm just just sharing my thoughts as a resident of the area so thank you for listening and have a nice evening thank you appreciate it Lisa hey everyone thanks to the council for uh a lot of great questions so far and concerns on these uh future plans I'm Rob pasac on Halifax Drive just outside the city limits of Port Orange but I've lived in Port Orange most of my my life are real close um like all of us I saw firsthand a lot of the flooding and that's most of my concern with a lot of new development going on here is and glad to see that a lot of us are concerned with um some of the water issues some of the things I was just at least um concerned about is the b19 canal being maintained all the way um these guys are going to put it sounded like the same am amount of output to that Canal we already know the thing backs up you know I think really we should be improving things for sure before any kind of approval of this uh situation just to make sure things aren't getting worse for existing residents because I think that that's a huge problem is allowing this development to take place even if it's smart development that's going to have negative impacts for existing residents you know it it might be nice to go there and walk and and get a samp or whatever else but you know if it causes your home to flood even more or to flood where it didn't in the past you know the 100e storm like we acknowledge does not come every hundred years and um you know the I just feel like these models and the engineers plans while they're good they're not perfect they rely on a lot of Maintenance both on the developer and the future owner the property as well as the city you know for these things to work as they're modeled the maintenance has to happen the designs have to be right you know all those calculations have to be right and then it has to be built you know to the same specifications and you know I've seen another neighborhood there krae of toown Park and I I believe that that neighborhood caused additional flooding to to my area where I'm at and I just don't want to see something like that happen here looks like we're at least considering a lot of those things before the fact which I think is great um and uh I just want to say additionally I'm thinking I don't I don't know how many more wood frame most likely apartments that we need in Port Orange um there's already a lot of them here you know I think there's concerns from living there safety concerns uh to longevity the structure concern um you know but outside of that I think it could be a lot of good things we just got to plan it intelligently like we're doing and uh thanks for allowing me my time thank you have a great day mayor council members Robert rehagen 1425 Dex to Drive Port Orange um this uh current uh thing has uh 900 I lost my place already 873 residential units that are theore ially possible with the current zoning um and they the developer is asking you to continue that 873 units residential units with this PUD um they're not even conceding the uh acreage that's going to be devoted to uh the commercial part uh I think this is your opportunity to get a concession from them reducing the number of units um when you look at the parcel 3 it's a long narrow parcel and I and it has currently has ditches that run from the uh the two developments The Grove and and the other one that that then drain into the b19 canal um and it looks strange and uh when you look at the property like that but then when you look at the North Boundary of the property you see the cutout for Yorktown Drive and that would indicate to me that and other things I've studied uh that at the time that these developments were done on the other side of the b19 um the uh the county had an easement for bringing bringing Yorktown through there and that's why that's the long narrow property is still available um now that uh has since expired because they're not going to put Yorktown through but it says that uh in 2006 there was a approval for 552 units on that property for a multif family development called Villa Park that uh since then has also expired so I think what it points to is that these units that are on that property they're theoretically on available for that property just they're not practical IAL you know it's not something that can be done because the nature of the ground being so low compared to the other developments and so I'm saying the developer should make a concession to you and the total number of units that they would be permitted to put on this property and I'm not opposed to the elevation I think that's good building up but it it might help to reduce the amount of land that is going to be filled the amount of wetlands that's going to be destroyed to build properties to build the apartments thank you thank you Robert who else come on up hi my name's Ivon kiss I am the HOA president for Sunrise Oaks um yes b19 is a grave concern for us uh that's a topic of our monthly meetings you and I've walked that I've walked that with you uh talk to St John's County they say that it's working by Design however we all know it's not working by Design so with that in mind um I'm not opposed of this project I think there's some really great ideas with it however that b19 is a huge concern for us um yes I'm tired I agree with you I'm tired of hearing about the 100-year storm but we did have seven homes that flooded during that storm there was another storm in September of 23 where we had 11 Ines of rain we also had homes flood during that time so it's not necessarily just the 100-year storm there is an issue with that b19 um we have contacted attorneys we've contacted the city we're trying to see how we can get some rectifications for that bit uh working on that project for two years but we haven't gotten anywhere because it seems that nobody wants to put the blame St County said it's the city the city says it's it's the county so we've been in limbo with that um maybe this project will help us get a a a correction for that problem that we're having um as far as 873 units I agree I don't think we need 873 units I think the height if we did half maybe that height restriction would help um the photos with the Drone of the balconies looking down at the other properties that are below them the single family homes we don't have photos of single family homes looking at 873 units so I'd like to see what that view looks like um my other concern is parcel 3 is parcel 3 wetland are not Wetlands so I wanted to make sure that was a question that I had because if it's Wetlands it's not buildable if that is true or not they're not building on it they're I know they're not building on it but I think isn't parcel 3 Wetlands we'll we'll ask yeah we'll ask okay and then as far as the commercial um there's going to be restaurants and so forth is there going to be signs on I95 Direct ing um traffic goers to those commercial restaurants that are going to be on Williamson because that's going to be an increase in traffic as well so I have a restaurant background um other than that I I don't oppose the property but I do have some concerns You're Welcome to our HOA meeting you didn't come to ours so I'll give you my card thanks kiss is has a nice ring to it by he who else and who are you hi good evening uh Chris Cunningham 5 S gum so my main concern is uh By Design the same as the problem with the lights on Nova that haven't been fixed because it City versus County and we are in a position when we have that 100-year flood we're in crisis and we cannot have everybody arguing about who's going to take care of the crisis um living over where I do the crisis was flooding uh the canals one's the city one's the county nobody takes responsibility and we are left with the issue so is there some sort of guarantee while everybody's taking care of the canals taking care of mitigating taking care of how the water is going to flow who's going to clean out the areas that aren't flowing who is literally going to be doing this when there is an issue who is going to be called people that live in an apartment don't know who to call they're going to call the apartment manager who is the manager got going to call people need to know what to do in an emergency and we're having more and more of those so we need assurances from all organizations and I'm not opposed to this project it's it's not that I want people to be safe I want to know I didn't know who to call and and poor mayor um but it it was the we have crisis people need to know what to do when to do it and how to do it and I think that's true responsibility thank you thank you thanks CH who else we got we get everybody okay here's what I want to do Mark Jessica Chris I'm going to allow you guys to respond to as much of this as possible and what have you miss when it comes back to council believe me we'll Grill you for it sounds good well I will do my best to make sure that uh that we're touching on everything um flooding we we've talked an awful lot about flood um and I think that um several of the speakers you know talked about flooding um I think when you look at what we're proposing with regard to the overall development of the site you know if you look at the things that are permitted by right right so these are the the traditional development patterns that you've followed in Port Orange historically these are the things that are represented by the current zoning Chris made the comment in one of our prior meetings I think maybe you at planning board um that it's rare you get a client that comes in and says how would you do it and the engineer says I would do it this way and the Cent does it that way right says I take every one of your recommendations and I move forward with them um in this case our client came to us and said came to the the designers and said how would you approach this he said I would take all the areas next to the b19 canal and I'd make them extra storm water so you're not creating feature flooding concerns you're providing a place for that extra storm water to go you're clustering the development on the one parcel next to the two connecting major roadways and they said okay let's do that and ACI came up with a great design for it and um that's what ultimately brought us here so you know flooding has been I think from the very first moment we started looking at this one of the primary issues we knew we needed to address um I think that that that has been again at the Forefront of our our discussions with your staff um and what we've Incorporated with regard to the design of the project and the terms that are in your development agreement including the requirement for us to do that floodway study that deals with the construction of it right that deals with the design of it uh from a maintenance standpoint that is an on going question you know one of the benefits of the project internally is you have one entity that will maintain the systems there um you do have other HOAs that have responsibility for maintaining some of the systems around us and you've got the county that's responsible for maintaining the b19 canal one of the things we found with the county is every time we connect the new development to the v19 canal like up by the airport where that big Warehouse is going in they said great connect right here maintain everything that's within your boundaries so maintenance now kind of shifts over and you've got that maintenance obligation but the I think one of the key things is it gets looked at during that process and so um again I think we've we've come at this from the standpoint of the flooding concerns and have very much focused on not just improving what's happening on this property but how this benefits the region and the the drainage basin in general by creating that extra capacity as well um values with regard to to property values um I think one of the things you know when you have a mixture of uses um you know I think strong towns has done a lot of publication on the on the topic of you know where are those most valuable places in most communities and consistently they come back and report that the most valuable places are the areas where you have higher density mixed use kind of fabric downtowns represent our greatest value mixed use nodes represent our greatest values and so you know I'm not a property appraiser I can't tell you the is that the property is going to go up um what I can tell you from the standpoint of um you know our client perspective is this is the first time they're going to be a developer themselves versus just selling the property off to somebody and their focus is on making this the nicest development in ports the nicest multif family development in Port Orange because it's going to be something they own for a long time um I think when you are putting that kind of investment in an area and you see those permit values and you see those land values going into the area it raises values um I think you can look at the property appraisers data and see that very consistently um regarding a couple of the comments about you know kind of reducing the number of units and things of that nature one of the benefits of being able to Cluster you know again we're taking on a lot of additional cost additional infrastructure you know input and everything else as part of the proposal it's one of the reasons why it's been very important to take those existing units and move them to one place versus saying you know we're just going to we can do it with 600 units or we can do it with something like that it's important because at the end of the day to any development is a math equation you know can you make money doing this um that's that's that's that's a core you know core issue and so that's why it's important to you know again while we're clustering keep the numbers the same add the res the the multi or the commercial in there because it creates the value not just for the property and for the developer for the community but it does provide a return and it provides a return as you're providing the additional storm water benefits and everything else so I think that's an important component of it um last thing I'll mention just the you know we' talked again about the the commercial you know on on meline you know when we when we came into this we didn't have any restriction on that we just said there's going to be 40,000 square feet of commercial within all of the properties and we listen to your staff and and they said yeah there's going to be concern about that being on the south side of meline can we put some restriction in place and so we limited to 10,000 ft happy to add the you know the operation hours of operation restrictions in as well so if you wanted to make that part of a motion or add that to the motion we'd be glad to have that in by second reading one of the key things Patrick ooloi when we first started you know working on this when he was working with with VOR at that point he kept talking about rossy's Cafe I haven't been to rossy's um why I just haven't in a lot of places cuz almost every time almost every time I was in Port Orange before I'd be at p and Hollow before they Clos God Rest their soul but um but I've eaten a lot of places here but I hadn't been to Rossy but that was the thing that you Patrick consistently said you need a little neighborhood spot on a lake like that that's a that's an important thing for a neighborhood for a community so that's where that whole idea came from on the on the area south of you know mine so I'd encourage you to keep it let us limit it let us put the hours of operation and let us come back and you know we're going to see what those uses are as we you know kind of go through the site plan process but um you know I think that makes sense um you know I was I was grateful you know we had a a great meeting with with your planning board ended up I think a five2 vote in favor of the project and a recommendation of approval and U I already read one of the things from your comprehensive plan so I'm going to close with this which is the other parts of this this plan because I think it follows along so closely with what's what we're talking about tonight so I I mentioned before this is the the policy that you put in place when you when you looked at your community and said you know 10 12 years ago we've got 20% left how do we how do we build out how do we you know address moving forward objective 4.1 create a land use pattern that accommodates the diverse housing mix that meets the life cycle and socioeconomic needs of the city residents 4.1.1 residential land uses shall be established in a variety of densities in order to create a wide range of housing choices and costs um 4.1.2 new neighborhoods should be created that have defined centers and edges and the center within a quarter mile of the edge neighborhood centers shall include a central Gathering Space Place in the form of a Park Civic lawn neighborhood commercial node or amenity all the things that we have here I already read 4.1.3 to you about clustering and sustainability and conservation subdivisions and all that so I'll just touch on the last two uh 4.1 point 4 says the city shall encourage residential land uses and developments which have a greater potential to support mass transit within designated public transportation corridors um the priority given to developments that will uh increase the you know Transit ridership again you're here at the corner of Maine and Maine if you will uh and this is an opportunity to do just that and then finally mitigate Visual and physical impacts of multif family development with architectural and Landscape treatment standards all of the standards that we've talked about tonight with regard to the setbacks the buffering and all the things that we've appro you know approached from a site design standpoint you know it was interesting to go back and look at your comp plan and read how closely it follows along with what you said you need to plan for for the remaining land in the city so with that happy to answer any other questions you might have um we appreciate all your time tonight um Mr Mayor members of the council thank you very much because we sat at County Council this morning for 6 hours waiting for item four and five to come up and we were item 11 here and got up very quickly so thank thank you very much I'm happy to answer other questions the item seems to have come up very quickly but yet we're yet we're still here we're still here but we're still within the time we spent at County Council this morning so I won't get into that let's start you got you got three and a half hours together we're good no we're going to start this way uh read questions comments to where we are right now we' covered awful lot I'll give final thoughts and then I'm also going to I do have one more round of short questions um I never want to hear the words 100e storm again in my life stor I I don't yeah or 500 year I you can call them one% storms because that's what they are there's a 1% chance of happening I'm so sick of hearing that phrase um I do want to address the colony in the woods thing because I know that came up when we had Lisa come up and speak U just something and and I did not know this I learned this during the hurricane but Colony the woods has private storm water retention so it was not something that the city had any control over and so that was that's a very different project that's very much out of our control um but but the other City neighborhoods that are in there there are things we can try to have a say in and try to help not that we're not not that we don't try to help everybody but that's a little educational thing I did not know and I learned it very recently so it's good to have that um so the other thing that came up that I thought was pretty interesting was the privacy considerations um when it comes down the actual apartment uh part of this project the apartments is how many do we know how many buildings roughly it's going to be um or what we're aiming for we we really don't yet and I don't know what you know how many would come in in PH or anything of that nature either and then secondarily are they all intended to be roughly the same size or are there's a mix okay yeah there I think I think you'll end up with with a mix if you look through the standards we have in the development agreement we provide alternatives for the mix so you can have the carriage house you can have the town home you can have you know the um you know the 45t or 65t building so there's there's a number of different variations in there again we've tried to put standards to make sure you're setting those the anything bigger back further away from the rest well well this whole process has given me a lot of confidence in you guys so I'm going to I'm going to give you some direction or another set of opinions here um because of that privacy concern that's come up obviously there's going to be a buffer and I know you're going to be leaving a lot of things in place but um the the the way that this is laid out as far as the property and I know it's turned kind of funny here on this screen right now but uh when it particularly comes to the to the parts of this property that border uh residential areas are closest to the residentials that are existing if if you guys can try to keep that in mind when it comes to what height goes where um if your if your Carriage Houses can be closer to the homes as opposed to further away and if your six story can be more towards the commercial because I definitely would not want one of you my neighbors with a 50 foot ladder uh looking out in the back of my house my backyard every single day I woke up and I'm sure they all feel the same way and I know that's being a little factious but nevertheless um just please consider that as this project moves along it would mean a great deal to me and I think it would mean a great deal to the residents we don't want a deer stand a deer stand H that's good no but that's that's it otherwise um I appreciate all the effort that's going in on staff's part uh mark on your team and for all the residents who've you know put input in whether it's being here neighborhood meetings or emails or phone calls um everything seems to turn out better when we all work together good amazing so stumming off what he was talking about on height on the building I know that when we talked about 65 foot that is with the architectural design right it's not where the person's going to be standing and going from his front door looking out the question is is depending on how many units you do at that 65 ft base if you dropped it by one floor for just those few buildings what does the impact do from the 873 what's it take it back to it really probably spreads it out more I mean within within the footprint I think the this has never been intended to be at six stories I think we we've got a limit of four four yeah so four is is what our maximum would be on those taller buildings and so I think I when we actually said it the neighborhood meeting we said five and um and I actually got corrected because we never had intended five um so four is is what we would limit and you know so I think we can accomplish what we're we're proposing to do with the clustering and everything else with with a four story limit that 65 ft is really more embellishment okay so good yep Drew further you still awake [Laughter] yeah we poke him every now and then yeah please what else you got nothing all right Scott Wayne can you just weigh in real quick I I know you know the answer to it so uh who owns the b19 canal who's responsible for it fuchia county is responsible for its maintenance they may have individual private agreements for maintenance in certain other spots But ultimately it is their their Canal to ensure that it's maintained right and I and I only asked the city manager way into that because because Chris Cunningham brings up a point that gets brought up a lot I share the same concern but it's a lot like trying to make your neighbor repair your roof or force your neighbor to cut your grass or force your neighbor so it's it's people don't like it and they don't understand it and I get frustrated with it too but it's a very difficult situation for us to take responsibility of another government entity's part of their infrastructure same thing like the dun loton conversation we all hear all the time it's not a city roadway I can't force fdot to do things on on their roadway and and I and while I get that it's frustrating it it is something that that we have to keep that into perspective and do what we can where we can certainly and um and so yeah the b19 canal is an issue but there's no question I mean it's a concern it's a concern on ours our staff way before Ian by the way our staff's been we look at projects all over the the geographical boundaries of the city of Port Orange and every single time these projects tie into other parts or components where we think we can maybe make some gains but they're not all up with our control it's like the the not to get too far off the topic but the Nova Road Canal you know you look at what South Daytona did many many years ago at Nova and re Canal that was great that it helped them but it created a bigger problem for us in a canal system we don't know and we didn't have any decision over them doing that so there there there's tons of challenges we share your frustration I hope you appreciate that and completely understand we do um just a comment on the colony doesn't stop us from holding the county accountable which we are just to comment on the colony in the wood thing in addition to what councilman Foley said is that that's a that's a community that actually was anex into the city of Port Orange it used to be County jurisdiction unincorporated part of Valia County so it while it's in our city limits now and you're right man talking about heartbreaking to see what happened in there and has happened many times it's it's a huge challenge for that HOA um somebody mentioned um HOAs and being responsible I think it might have been uh Mr Pest act or but or but but in regardless somebody mentioned U you know HOAs being responsible to maintain their their common areas and their retention areas and they are privately owned by those HOAs and we see that as a problem all over the city if you watch their medians we talk about that frequently where you see all of these Retention Ponds all over the city of Port Orange if you ever look at an aerial view the reality of it is is very very few of them are owned by the city of Port Orange we have very little control over a lot of those retention PRS because they're private property they belong to HOAs they belong to County they belong to State they belong to whoever but they're not ours you know and so they're problems and and we're we do what we can where we can when we can to try to improve those and encourage these HOAs to maintain their ability to retain their storm Waters just like businesses as well um you know I I can't stress enough some of the comments and Echo even from some of the residents as well as the staff and the elected officials up here what you guys have done with the project and keeping a lot of those goals and objectives in mind you've really done a great job with that um I like a lot of the things that I see I'm not so sure I'm there yet and and and I you know you and I had a great conversation and you know where my my concerns and my frustrations are I think the traffic infrastru structure is a huge problem I and it's it you know I know we talk about Williamson being widened all the way to Madill and bevel great but that Williamson overpass I am 100% convinced I'm not a traffic engineer but I've been around here a long time and I've seen what happens and that is going to be a major problem I know it's not your problem but it is going to be a major problem with what is coming and what potentially can be developed north and south of that area um so that's a heavy heavy concern adding commercial not knowing again not knowing what you know or don't know um you just don't know right and and so you know it's it's a hard thing I'm really struggling I know I probably feel like I'm just rambling here but I'm really struggling in my mind you know when we're looking at a PUD a lot of times there's there's some give and take here and I feel like you know I could get there with this project but I need to see some reduction in the res residential units to be honest with you cuz I feel like you know if we're going to put 40,000 sare ft of commercial that's a lot of commercial that's a big piece of commercial we're going to put 40,000 square ft of commercial up I'd really like to see 15% reduction residential units you know something in addition to a lot of the positives you've already done I don't want to go backwards because I think we're kind of getting there um so that that's kind of where I'm at right there the traffic thing is a major concern with me obviously storm water is a huge concern I do like your plans with the storm waterer thing um somebody had asked you maybe you could touch on this how do you keep water running off the property because that's the concern right is if you can keep it all on your property that's great right but what we see in a lot of these storms you know if it's an inch of rain two inches of rain what have you it it works out fine but when we see when we do get the four five six Ines of storm of water over 24 4 36- hour period you go all over the city and you see your water running onto their property right and that's not supposed to occur and I know building codes and Land Development codes and stuff have changed over the years to to try to stop that but maybe you can speak to that light how would you explain that to the HOAs and the residents to say here's how we know we're going to be able to keep our water on our property yeah so everything is going to be raised up right all new development gets raised you know this will probably be 4 feet higher um just because of the nature of where it's at but we have to grade it to where everything drains internally now there are going to be side slopes that go away from our property because we're not going to just put a wall other around the whole property right but you usually what happens is those will drain to the buffers and then we can put little swailes in there that'll collect those so nothing and especially with this scenario you know you look at the commercial node on parcel 2 is surrounded by storm water so even if once we raise it up it's still going to just drain to the storm water ponds and then um also with the parcel one with the Wetlands internal everything in there is going to drain just the side slopes are going to drain to the wetlands and then we'll have drainage on the outside to collect anything that drains offsite we're not allowed to discharge anything um more than what discharges now and that is reviewed in detail by city of Port Orange St John's and in this case the county um as well oh and um I did want to mention that something that you alluded to um you know city of Port Orange you guys require now all um storm water easements on all storm water so in this scenario you know if if for some reason something wasn't being taken care of you know the city has the authority to come in there and take care of it for us so um that's another great thing the city does so just wanted to point that out you know that's a great point you know you're you're one of the very few and Bila and Bill and bill you for it I like holding hmer you are and I think I can say this you know I've worked in every city in this in this County and and some of the surrounding counties and and the county I think you are the only city that does that um I think you are the the only city that I've worked with that requires as part of the development process for us to give you the right to come in an emergency situation on newer developments maintain the system in a way you know if it hasn't been maintained and then bill us for it and lean the property if you don't do it um it's a I mean really should be done that way you know kind of across the board it's a it's a great approach um but you know you are the only one that does that it's a great until the state takes our ability way to do that we're quiet about it they're going to do that yeah and and mark to your credit one last comment and I I'll pass on to the mayor but you brought up a couple of times you know that the city has comprehensive L development plan and we revisit that and we talk about our vision and our objectives and and and there has been this transition to Vertical growth and as you know leaving more land of O open um and creating more Open Spaces which means you got to go up if you can't go out um and I get your point and it's very well taken I don't want you to think it it's not but it also comes down sometimes to you know the city's a big area you know and you look at a certain project and you go this will work here but will it work there you know in case in point you look at the the the developments across from um The Pavilion Plaza now we did a land zoning use change there mostly driven by the residents who said we don't want a Costco in our backyard or a major commercial development in our backyard we'd rather have a nice gated apartment comp we know they have nothing but we know that's not a choice but you know and so and it worked and it fit and there was a lot of concessions and and and a lot of back and forth to make that stuff work and now when you go out there today well again we all miss the the pastures with the cows rolling around out there and all that stuff that that has worked and and it does work in that area so I just you know to your credit I I appreciate you bringing that up and and that's not lost on me so I just wanted to make a note of that well you know if I can just brief response to that because I appreciate the conversation the day after um we had our planning board meeting I left um my son was turning 25 uh he's a college student again um in Amsterdam and you know one of the interesting things when we leave a community like ours that's by comparison extraordinarily young right compared to to what you see there one of the things that's interesting into your comment about you know the densities and and the intensities that you're putting into this property one of the amazing things there is that any place that I've ever visited him when he's since he's been over there I can walk within a a five to 10 minute minutes of his his his apartment in a three or four story five story building um for absolutely anything that I need and um you know the the policies that we talked about in your comprehensive plan really is designed to I don't think the city any city in Florida is ever going to completely convert that one but I think what we've what we've looked at is in our last areas in our major inter sections you really ought to do things like that because you then can capture that future growth and put it in one place where you have the ability to walk almost anywhere for the things that you need and so I know it's different and and it's hard to to sit here and say you know I'd love to say I'm going to throw you a cons you know we can do something with regard to density it's also a much more expensive way to to build and develop particularly when you're putting all the infrastructure in road infrastructure in storm water and so it's hard to say you know I'd love to be able to say yeah we can do a produ here or there you know it's really really really a math equation and and we've done our best to try and make sure we're providing all the benefits that we can within the range of affordability of it and so um you know I I know with regard to traffic it's absolutely one of the most frustrating things we hear at every Hearing in in this County um but I can tell you and I'll I'll give you one more example um there are plans that have been in place for 30 years um between the county and the City of Dand that are under construction now because cities counties and private development work together well to make sure the infrastructure is there to support the development the beer extension is is under construction now that roundabout I mentioned earlier is under construction now none of that would be there if we weren't having the conversations about how do we plan for these next things and those are the conversations we're now having about Williamson and the overpass and the signals and the and the intersections and they have to be solved before we can build well if you can make the math work I'd love for you to be able to earn my V we're not there tonight you can make the math work with a 15% reduction in the residential thing that would be a big thank you it's um you know we're going to get into the bigger conversation as as we move forward into the years in 1976 we had 200 million people living this country now we got close to 340 million and somebody said by 2076 another 50 years we're going to have 450 million people in this country and they got to live somewhere the question isn't is not just where they going to live it's going to be how they're going to live Iowa all for it they need more Sunshine there to bring but you it it and let's face it I I live here in part because this is a great place to live and it used to be a a well-kept secret how good uh Port uh Place Port Orange is to live and Florida is to live and the secret is out to the tune of 1,200 people a day coming to Florida and they don't all want to live in South Florida for some reason um I I don't know what that is but we're going to get into those conversations in the next decades about uh density versus sprawl because sprawl threatens our Wetlands sprawl threatens our Watershed and I would uh more than anything as much as I am a traffic guy and I don't like it uh what we do with storm water and how we protect uh our ability to treat water and uh provide clean water uh is essential it takes priority and I'm very proud that Port Orange our consumptive use permit which the state re renews our consumptive use permits for water in 5 to 10 year increments likes our water plan uh and what we do to the point where we got renewed for 20 years Port Orange water is fine now that doesn't mean that we don't have an impact on our neighbors and I'd like to continue to have a positive impact on our neighbors uh Tracy I do have a question for you since you uh mentioned it do you want to amend uh ordinance number 202 24-3 to uh allow a commercial restriction uh uh of operating hours between 6:00 a.m. and 10: p.m. yes sir that's your uh Amendment that's my Amendment that's your motion that's my motion just be clear that's on the parcel two we'll make sure make that on parcel two you are motioning to put a restriction uh on commercial from 6:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. do I have a second second do we we have a second on the amendment comments on the amendment good work Tracy there being none let's move back and go move in order first reading of ordinance number 202 24- which is the large scale comprehensive Amendment call the roll councilman Foley yes Council grubs yes Council yes mayor no mayor yes 41 on the amendment to ordinance 2024-the was a good idea poke at you on the ordinance itself first reading of ordinance number 202 24-3 call the role counc yes counc yes coun B yes mayor no mayor yes 4 one uh with that uh tonight I'm going to conclude this by saying before I close the public hearing portion of the meeting I'm going to just conclude by saying you're this is a beginning your work is just starting and we're going to hold you to do it and our community development staff is going to hold you to it because we're not just looking for quality but we're looking for help for the neighborhood um and I appreciate your hard work with that thank you thank you all thank you guys you the public hearing portion of our meeting is closed and then with that I'm going to take another seven minute recess as Nature Calls and we are back we've concluded the public hearing portion of the meeting now additional items item 12 City attorney report none tonight excellent report item 13 city manager report nothing tonight excellent report city council committee reports River to CPO councilman Poley uh nothing nothing crazy to report except that we did not have a physical Quorum at the last meeting and so um kind of made things interesting but we have executive tomorrow and we've been given direction to uh ratify all the opinions of the previous meeting so um that's all for that one okay with that uh fire pension board fire pension board meeting went great uh the fund was up 3.4 million 8.8% really uh yeah and uh we did elect to keep the rate of return at 7.25 which means the city's contribution is not going to change in terms that goes the expected rate of return uh also uh a conversation we've been having on the board was about doing an independent audit and we've been discussing that back and forth quite a bit uh we had Zach from James Moore make a presentation at the previous meeting and then you tossed around that idea and kind of all of us you know warmed up to doing uh kind of put our toe in the water so we'll be getting an official um presentation uh you know I I try to think about the right word here is been official contract from James Moore to look at a uh aspect or two of the plan uh in independently and that'll be occurring at our next meeting Okay police pension board police pension just had our meeting on the uh 22nd I believe or 23rd uh so the prior 12 months to the P year net it's up 15.4% uh the value on December 31st was uh 6,936 th000 the qu the fiscal year to date the quarter is 7.9 7.93% net so doing well there and as of February 23rd with the uptick because it's up more since the the quarter closed uh the plan went up $1.6 million from January to February 26 so it's valued at 62 m582 th000 which is just sh 1.6 million more than December 31st so it's doing well excellent y we go ahead and get all the pension board Scott you said General pension board's already met yep we met yesterday um something for Council to keep in mind that's coming and I think we kind of knew this was going to happen but um next year's contribution rate from the city is anticipated to increase pretty significantly from 15.4% up to 20.1% and then the following year will be about a little over 20 23% that's largely being driven by raises that have been given to the general employees at a much higher rate than they were used for the actual calculation so um welcome to the times of inflation yep yep so um that we'll have to deal with that uh the plan's still over 80 80% funded so it's doing well in that category uh January wasn't a huge month but it's still was a positive gain of 33% which puts us at 5.8% for the fiscal year into the positive so hopefully we can keep that Trend and and meet our objectives there and current market value of the plan sits at about 37.8 million okay uh First Step shelter board we met last week uh one of the first orders of business is that we had to elect a Treasurer a a secretary and a vice chair yours truly was uh uh droned into becoming the vice chair of the firststep shelter board so I've got that on my plate as well which is just fine because there's plenty of good news uh the shelter since opening of December of 19 has uh served sheltered over 1100 people uh 599 residents in housing and of those that we've got into housing after two years 90% of them are still there so a terrific success rate uh the since the safe Zone opened uh 3730 people have taken advantage of the safe Zone and we are one of the bigger participants we've had 68 people there uh Daytona Beach has the uh largest number by far but we have the uh after Daytona in the valuch county we have the second largest number of several participating cities so the safe Zone uh is something that we're taking advantage of which is good because that helps us be become pottinger compliant which leads me to just something I want to put out there um I would like us to consider we're only contributing 35,000 we are using that safe Zone that was something that was not there when we put that 35,000 a year in place and since we are getting more use out of the firststep shelter when we get into budget season even if it's just 105,000 I'd certainly like to see more but I think that we need to consider upping our consideration uh um our contribution uh we are one of the lowest contributing cities uh even some of the small cities are contributing more than us and since we are getting more out of it than what we originally contracted for that's a consideration um that's just something I want to put out there I don't want anybody to comment on it because it's not something on the agenda but I wanted that information out there so that when it does come up that is something we have to think about uh General employees pension board we've already talked about that um with that do we have any other business come before us this evening none you sure you want tonight end it's only been we're just short of 3 hours three more minutes we can make it with that everybody have a good night and we will see you all in two weeks