thank you for joining us tonight we're going to call this meeting to order first we're going to stand up for the pledge of allees then a moment of silence I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all amen could have brought SC up here seconds yeah I could have brought SC that's right I missed the opportunity can I get a roll call please here Scot here here here Bo I'm hereen here Thomas Jord here and consideration of the minutes gentleman make a motion to approve the minutes I have a comment um um I would like to um go to page six on our on our packet when it says commissioner green stated that the project was a good idea but meline Avenue would be expanded and that was to be Williamson Avenue not Madeline that's all I have Williamson correct all right we have a motion can we get a second with the change second roll call please yes yesing yes yes Bo yesen yes yes all right first item on our agenda tonight and I'm assured the uh reason for such a full room I love it when it's a happy full room not an angry full room um case number c-24 d001 conditional use extension for Christ the King Community Church make a motion to approve second thank you good evening how's everybody doing good how are you susette Cameron planning Community Development as stated in the application this is a conditional use extension request to allow Christ the King community search to continue to operate Outdoors for an additional 2 years through July of 2026 while the permanent Fellowship Hall is constructed on site the subject property is located on the Southeast corner of Spruce Creek Road and Central Park Boulevard just south of All Children's Park in the fall of 2019 the property rezoned from residential to government public use GPU to allow the applicant to move forward with design the site to be developed as a church during this time the church was holding services at South Cypress Creek Elementary School however Co hit in 2022 or 2020 the church shifted its location from the school to the subject property where they started holding Outdoor Services to do so in the permitted in a permitted fashion staff worked with the church and recommended they apply for a conditional use temporary to allow them to hold Outdoor Services while they designed their permanent facility in March 2022 the city council approved an additional 2-year extension to allow the church to continue to use the site as the church constructed their permanent facility the church had previously anticipated uh construction would begin in the fall of 2022 and completed in early of 2024 the current conditional use expires July 21st of 20 24 according to the church finances and construction industry delays prevented construction from starting as previously anticipated therefore the church is requesting an additional two years extension of the conditional use to continue holding Outdoor Services and other Church related programs and meetings on the subject property until the permanent facility is completed according to the church the construction is anticipated to start the summer of 2024 and complete in 2025 staff recommends approval of the subject to the conditions listed in your staff report the applicant is here if you have any questions awesome questions for staff Stan no Scott no Mark no nope Lance have any plans been submitted yet as far as for building permit s the site plan was submitted to today through our online smartgov services but no building permits to date okay thank you go um is the applicant gonna speak to us sure come on up Scott be happy to [Laughter] speak well good evening for the record as Scott kersner pastor of Christ the King Community Church how are you this evening okay I'll take that as a good um I appreciate your um attention and uh your help with this uh we um in the planning of our church never thought we would be meeting Outdoors for four consecutive years uh it wasn't in my fiveyear plan um but um I found that what I can afford and what I can always have are not the same thing as you may have found out as well um we had anticipated already having our building underway um but um May of 2022 when the cost were through the roof for labor and materials and unavailable materials we decided to focus our attention more on paying off our property rather than getting into a unsized amount of debt that we could not afford and so we did that this last year we were able to pay off our property um and so we're happy to be the proud owners of that that lot at 6015 Spruce Creek Road um we have also been saving up towards our building we have got a final approval on our loan finally that is set to close before the end of March and uh we have submitted our site plans and meanwhile all the architectural drawings and all of that are moving forward so we I I hope and anticipate that we will be breaking ground in May uh but obviously our building will not be done by the summer of 20 uh 24 this summer um before our conditional usage expires so we're asking for that extension to see us all the way through the construction and uh we will be happy to have our home finally built and um um so I just appreciate your consideration I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have questions for Scott Bo Lance hey do you guys have a contractor yet we do yes okay and you guys are under contract we under contract paid the first 125,000 to them already and uh yeah so and and design is being design finalized is being finalized yes we have floor plans that are being somewhat adjusted but uh elevations uh floor plans um so all that's underway my concern with this would be Scott is that um I don't know that it's going to be realistic that you're going to start in May m because building permits take a long much longer two years enough and you know that would be my only concern is two years enough well I'm happy I'm happy to ask for a final another year to that if you feel like I know we had this conversation before and you know it was like was two years enough before I thought so but in the world that we live in that's not very realistic so um you guys are willing to Grant a third year I would be happy to have that put in the writing well I mean it depends on when you submit is going to be based on when you're going to get done so like I said site plans have been submitted architectural renderings and and all the building plans should be submitted within the next 30 days 45 days so okay so maybe it'll be summer before we break ground say a prayer and the building official will slip you to the front well okay we're not looking for any special attention but we are praying about it I can tell you that okay thank you yeah my only comment is about the same thing it's it's your your time frames you've gone four years now we're on what the second extension here and as as Lance said time frames don't happen as fast as you want them to I'm learning that yeah I I mean based on you you just conveniently turned in the the site plan today well it's been under work for many years in fact we uh we had a site plan that was submitted previously in May of 2022 that got all the way through the initial meetings but we got to the point where yeah our site plan was almost approved but we couldn't afford what the building cost came in at the building cost came in at $3.5 million and we just we weren't prepared to take that kind of debt on so we put the pause on everything so we had to kind of go back to the drawing boards with our site plans and this has been six months in the making so I so you just submitted new ones but you still don't have financing approved we do have financing approved is approved yes so that's all good to go you got a contractor we have a contractor yep all right thanks appreciate it Mark yeah has a contractor put this out to bid yet has he got any yes he's working on bids M okay and did he give you anticipated time to start uh well yes I mean he he's hoping that by the summertime but um so okay and an idea of how long it was going to take to construct it's going to be a steel building that will have uh you know an exterior that meets all the requirements for the city so um those go up pretty quick but it's the finish work that's going to take the time so um I anticipated said you're closing on your loan in March mhm okay but you're not going to break ground until well I mean whenever they're ready they have to sub you know if the site plan is approved they can begin breaking ground and doing the site work while the you know all the building permitting and everything is done we have our footprint we have our elevations we have the floor plan but it's all theine details that have to be all right um approved and permitted I was looking at your plan and you've got um you've got some some structures that are going to take a not awful lot of lead time in regards to uh the shop drawings and everything else so realistically I don't think June or July you're going to be able to get this done because by the time you get the bids back from on your site and you award that site then you got to go through um everything else and get these under construction we're talking six weeks eight weeks to get those done and you you're not going to be able to break ground until that happens okay okay so um you know I'm I'm not sure if we need a third year but I think it might be a good suggestion um what we don't want to do is is to now be be doing this again sure okay yeah I appreciate that all right thank you um and and you held off on the construction uh because of the amount of the the high rates of financing basically well it was multiple things it was the materials weren't available um and if they were you'd have to wait you know nine months to to get them okay so labor costs were through the roof material costs all of that has begun to level out although it has not come back down to the rate it was before so it has come down some but um I'm thinking primarily the financing the rate of interest that that you could have got two years ago as opposed to now umbly slowed you down a little bit Yeah okay all right um I just want to make sure that we're asking for the right thing and if we're going to approve two years or three years I want to make sure that we're approving the right thing so I don't know what that would take if we if if you feel I mean you guys work in this industry more than I do as far as construction goes so you know um where's um we'll get we'll get that okay um are you finished yeah I'm done scottt I live right down the street from the church I've attended a wedding there uh traffic has never been an issue it is wonderful to see all the people out there congregating under the trees and the lights and it's been it looks beautiful a pleasure to see it go through I would support a third year if that the committee feels that that's necessary to get everything through I appreciate that thank you we we take pride in our property and do our best to make it uh something that's inviting for the the Comm Community Stan um I think I read in here that your contractor is from Jacksonville is that correct uh no he's out of Sanford Sanford okay I was just kind of wondering you know not only can they do it but it's also getting the subcontractors and all that lined up and on board because that can be an issue he has a lot of subcontractors in house that he works with so um yeah so he's got people he can kind of control which is yeah that kind of goes back to what some of these other Fells been talking about um yeah I you if we can do a third year that might be the thing to do but it's up to the legal department to tell us what's going on with that well so I have a lot of the same questions I just wanted to know if you had um submitted for building permits yet because I was also concerned about the timeline um I I love I too love the property I think you guys have done a beautiful job out there it looks great it's not like it's any hindrance I don't think on the neighborhood or any surroundings so I I have no problem generally but I would like to know what it would look like how could we add a third year to this could we add a third year to this if they don't use all three years no big deal right but if they need it they have it and I'm not sure if that's a you question if that's a penny question or a 10 question or is that even possible it is possible so how would probably need to modify the motion or because amend the motion I believe because there's a motion and a second already out there cor yes so so we need someone to probably move to amend the motion Madam chairman I move that we amend this motion to make it a three-year period rather than a two-year period second I will second it again um yeah I think that was a good idea uh Lance for us to Poss do that and see if we could extend it out a little bit so no further questions I have question so let's let's go six eight months down the road all of a sudden Yahoo we got a permit and we're going to work what's going to happen are you going to just kind of cordin off where the building is and still utilize the site and so on during during the build as well how's that going to integrate in with are you going to box out where the build cuz the building's kind of over on the side if you will it's the building goes closer to the wetlands in the back and it's closer to the farm that's to our South so it's a little more you know back further back there so it it doesn't impede on in fact the the outdoor Chapel area has some beautiful specimen trees that we hope to keep and and for many many years to come and so we've incorporated into that Master site plan to keep that space and to protect those trees and and have uze all through the bill Etc right yes okay all right thank you I I do have a question question um I've read in in the U write up that there is you're you have a 10x10 limitation on tents when you're having Services during inclement weather how does that work I mean yeah we we don't meet out on the property when the weather in fact the last out of the last four weeks three of those we've had to meet indoors we use spru Creek Elementary School we rent their cafeteria and so when it's below 40 degrees or it's wet like it has been this last weekend we go indoors I see yeah so you don't ever anticipate doing that well I mean no it's it's it's it's expensive it's you know there's not enough time when you find out the weather forecast is going to be rainy there's not enough time to coordinate sometimes and so it's just easier we already have a relationship over at Spruce Creek Elementary and just use their facilities in the event you ever did that how many people would that accommodate at the cafeteria no the uh tent well I mean we we've never really met under a tent U at all um the tents are just to protect our sound equipment and our it area you know so it's yeah it's very minimal we've never had a large tent out there other than they've done it for weddings you know they've had reception inside but that's about it yeah I was scratch my head over that yeah okay so uh back on subject here let's um thank you Scott if nobody has anything else for him we'll take some comments from the public if anybody needs to speak to this please come up state your name and your address you get 3 minutes to speak hi good evening my name is Philip ran Reynolds and I live at 6014 Spruce Creek Road so I'm right across the street I would just ask that um you know I really want the church to build their building on across the street every single Sunday I have a concert going on during the morning morning time that I can't escape from so there's frustrations you know and I've asked for the music to come down and it does but then it slowly creeps back up so I just am confused about to ask for three years because then it's just prolonging the inevitable that are they going to build a church I want them to build a church trust me but if we keep adding time then what more excuses are there going to be 3 years from now and for the driveway to be directly reflected on my house I don't really like that either because at night time what happens have headlights in my face all night long so is it up to me to reposition everything in my house as far as my living area so that way this doesn't impact me and my family I'm just you know I I I love Scott he's a great dude you know I love that they have Outdoor Services I think it's great I just want the actual building of the church to be real and to happen sooner rather than later because it's not fair to everyone my neighbors to the right to the left to the fire department across from that property for all of us for the farm wals who sold their house and then somebody else's occupy that house why did they leave those people were here for a long time but ironically enough they put their house up for sale when the church started having Services outside so you know like I said nothing against these people they're all great people I get that but at what point do we just keep going beyond what you guys expect and not just say okay you've had four years you've been meeting since February of 2020 costs are not going to go down building materials are not going to go down let's build the church and let's be done with it thank you for your time thank you thank you anyone else hi Mike Ron 3578 Sugar Plum Lane board Orange um been going to the church a little over two years now um you I think when you look at no disrespect to this gentleman when you look at it uh yes building costs have come down significantly for at least for what we're doing uh project was over $3 million uh you know a year or two ago and put the brakes on it uh it's down to below two millions about $2 million now so the prices have come down substantially anybody who was involved at all in the construction industry banking industry Finance industry in the last three years four years since Co shut the world down for a few months knows a lot of things slowed down a lot of things got postpone um we do have a approval from A lender we're ready to go that's that's a big hurdle to overcome um I know Mark knows that um I'm a banker myself so that's a big hurdle for a small church not denominational to overcome we've got that in place the church has been growing while we've been meeting on side um the other thing is I'm not really sure what the gentleman was talking about about lights in the driveway at night a lot we have maybe two evening Services throughout the year we have a Christmas Eve service and we have a good Friday service everything else is pretty much during the daytime so I'm not sure where the lights in the driveway are coming from but uh I think we're in the final leg of getting this thing done and appreciate your consideration for uh helping us move forward with thank you thank you any other questions for staff I do um I want to I guess I want to take this another step further and and and you know I want to integrate some of this gentleman's thing but but what I I guess what I would like to see is some deadlines um you know look can we get submitted for a building permit in a certain amount of time um you know obviously the length of the permit is is within the city that's their issue but to just have it open-ended to say yeah we're going to build it or yeah we're going to submit a thing for permit we're not there yet and so and I'm in the business so I'm just telling you in my feelings they're not where they need to be to say yeah we're going to work we're not going to work in the summer I'm just going to tell you that's my opinion we're not going to work in the summer but there needs to be some type of criteria that says look we're going to submit for a building per by a s certain date um you know and then we'll we'll break ground by certain date but but right now we don't have any dates and any certainty to the extension penel Cruise planning so I just want to clarify that um they actually did get their site plan fully approved they have a development order um during that time they have they have decided because of the cost and everything else to make some minor modifications to the plan to actually make it better to plan for the full two-phase like for the future extension as well and get it all done now um it's they they got that plan submitted in today so like I said we've already approved the site plan they have submitted today a modification to that site plan it will not take stff very long to to review that about the site plan yeah but what I'm saying is um the they once the site plan is approved they can start working on on the site and then their building is a is a steel building module building it which shouldn't it's not the normal kind of construction that takes as you know longer time but I know how long it takes to get a building permit in the city of Port Orange a lot of it is prefab correct like so it's not it's so we can't really put a time frame to submitt a deadline for that but I can tell you that they they'll be able to start their site work I'm I think that they should have no problem starting their site work by this summer because like I said the site plan approval is not going to take long and then your site plan is is your development order is it's good for a year so they have to get moving with building permits and getting forward moving on things I understand that and I understand what site plan process is I do but I also understand the building process and what it takes to get all your plans your engineering through plans exam and approved ready to get a building going I don't care about the site I want it like I said I want toar I want to see the building go up I don't care about the site so I wanted some dates on the on the building to get oh your yes sir you say your plans are being done are your plans near done are they near being stamped to be able to submit for a permit so let me just rewind a little bit so you have a little bit of history on the building part of it we we initially were going to go with steel Masters out of Edgewater um during when I think his name is yeah so but when we had to back off then then we went with a different building contractor um but again he was responsible for all the ins and out of that steel manufacturing the plans the floor plans however HVAC Plumbing electrical lighting for all of that have been done and engineered we've paid for all of that already we've been as we've gone along paid for all of these things so we those things will have minor modifications but they're quite a ways along in those uh the schematics for the steel building itself again which is a prefab steel building those are in process but I I hear what you're saying and I hear what Ryan's saying as well and I I I'm sensitive to that I know um that I I appreciate and and love and pray for him and his family all the time and I I hear him and I don't want to Discount what he's saying because he's the neighbor who's most affected by it and so and and just so you know that driveway is going to be shifted over away um in the master site plan further from your house so just so you know that and we are working on it man trust me this wasn't my plan to be outside for for four years um but it's it's been what just has happened and it's not I understand you've been very patient and I appreciate that I appreciate your kind words but so we're you know we're happy to keep pushing forward we have for a long time you know we've spent a lot of money not just in the building but all the architecture engineering surveys topography I mean we've spent a lot of money and it's all been been cash paid for so we we have no debt right now we've got our loan approved which wasn't done before we're closing on that loan our Builder has his first you know amount of money so we're moving on that but you know like as far as deadlines I mean we're we're pushing forward um it's it's you know now it's it's it's a different situation that it was before when we came before you we had none of that before okay so so hope that gives assurances to you all and to my friend here so thank you okay so we can't put any deadlines on it anyway so we need to move forward with what we planned can I ask penny a question Penny any idea how soon we can have a preconstruction meeting um so like I said the plans just came in it'll go to the the next scheduled um DRC so um you know we're still getting the the complete subal in I think it'll probably go to sdrc um uhk March 20th I believe something like that um I mean I could anticipate because the engineer they have working on it has very responsive talk to him all the time um kind of inside joke CS me a lot um so I mean I would I mean I I could probably see us being able to hopefully be able to issue a development order after the first recent middle it might take like one recent middle to address some clean up things if that best case scenario middle so you know yeah maybe maybe mid April maybe end of April mid April somewhere around there possibly you know I can't say for sure but you know being positive about it because like I said we've already thoroughly reviewed this site it's just a modification so it shouldn't take as many submittals Scott can I ask you another question sure absolutely um you're you're you're closing on your loan oh mind in March correct yes and I assume that there's a first draw is going to go to the GC we've actually um so as part of our agreement with this loan uh or organization which is a a Christian loan organization we put the first 300,000 down which we have already put the first 125,000 down we have the remaining amount of that already to be submitted to the contractor as is needed and so but yeah we're we're in on all that okay all right well so so it's not like they're waiting for the loan to close for them to do the work we've already submitted our first 125,000 and have the other 175,000 in reserve ready for them as they need it to do all their work so you're putting that in res so we're working simultaneously on site work and construction and the you know all the you know architecture for the building permitting and everything well as as Mike can attest to you know one of the best things about banking is as soon as you close that loan that interest starts acre right seven days a week 24 hours a day it's thing yeah can't wait but uh so when you do close on that that's going to give them as a comment here that'll give them an extra incentive to get this thing done yeah our first year uh uh is our first 12 months are interest only on that you know obviously as draws are made uh and then then it starts with the payments but um yeah okay and it's our hope and prayer that we'll have it paid off before it's finished okay Scott I've got a question I've heard terms tonight so you've used the terms in process I'm not sure what that means it's I get it it's in process I don't know if it means you turn paperwork into day so it's in process or it's almost at the end of the process where it's going to something's going to be signed off and you said hopefully by summer mhm summer means a lot of things yeah so when what do you mean by summer when you say you're going to start construction Well site work the site work can be done all of the what time frame you talking about you talking about May is May summerun July My Hope was then may that we would begin to see dirt turned as far as the site work goes that's your your your interpretation by summer okay all right I think Penny kind of backs that up a little bit yeah I I and I get it I I just I just hear a lot of loose terms and we get loose terms up here all the time we all have an understanding what we think it means but listen yall understand the building industry more than I I have my hopes and my prayer it does I don't always get what I asked for but uh you know that's what I'm praying for none of us do Scott of and and you know I appreciate I appreciate what what L said about the three years and and but I want to see this thing done I don't want to see you come back here again trust me we do too all all of these people that are part of it they want to see it done too CU every time we have to go to Spruce Creek Elementary on a rain out day or it's free outside they all want to see it done as well so I mean we're all together on this good I'm good okay any last discussion do I need to bring up both motions to on um we amended so we don't am the mo you vote on the amendment first then on motion has amended so we don't need to bring in the first one okay so we have a first and a second on the amended motion and I get a roll call if there's no other discussion nobody from the public we're good thank you Scott thank you so much yes scer yes marking yes yes no yes yes motion passes now we go that was the amends we're going to do the other original that was the amend amended motion no that was the amendment oh the amendment and now you vot on the amended main motion yes amended Mo yes I'm all thrown off go ahead with the roll call please yes Scott yes Mar yes Mar Bennett yes Tom yes yes yes motion passes let's get it [Applause] done thank you guys for coming in where's everybody going okay let go we're gonna keep an eye on you buddy we're have speci he's doing good all right next application can I get a motion a good load for case number su-23 d002 Harbor Landings plattin plans approval of the Harbor Landing subdivision PLA and plans between Riverside Drive and Ridgewood Avenue make a motion to approve case number ISB 23- 00002 a second thank you all right good evening Penelope crew planning so so before you is a request by the applicant to subdivide um the subject 4.74 Acres um into 10 single family lots and 16 town home lots um pursuant to the planned unit development which was approved in August 2019 um by the city council and that lays out the development framework for this um this subdivision the subject property is currently vacant like we said it's zoned Harbor Landings planned unit development it has a future land use of urban medium density um and the plans that are in your packet tonight have been designed um pretty much exactly how the concept plan was in the Pud that was approved in 2019 um and that subdivision includes a 10-ft wide single family lots uh 10 I'm sorry 50 foot wide not 10 foot wi I was like we're not doing those super tiny homes no tiny 10 50ft wide single family um Lots along Riverside Drive and 1640 foot wide Lots uh for the town homes internal to the subdivision private streets two access points one on Riverside Drive and one on Ridgewood Avenue 5ot sidewalks along Riverside and Ridgewood Avenue um storm water uh utility infrastructure 20ft wide landscape buffer along Ridgewood and 10ft wide landscape buffer along Riverside Drive and the North and South boundaries of the property open space common areas and amenities for the residents including visitor parking for the Town Homes um they are providing slightly above what the code require requires for tree preservation including preserving all the historic trees um and they're in compliance with all city state and County regulations uh public facilities and services have been analyzed and um is they have capacity for the proposed development um this is kind of just a general rendering of what is proposed for the single family units um with three-story detached houses Town Homes were supposed to be twostory um they would be in compliance with the 35t maximum height in the MDA and would be designed to meet the minimum floor elevations for the subdivision um as far as the requirements with the city's flood plane management regulations in the code yes as a reminder subdivision platin plans are a ministerial review um meaning that the approving body must only consider the technical criteria and loot dimensional requirements of the master development agreement and the Land Development code the Harbor Landings plat plans have been reviewed by the staff development Review Committee and determined to be designed in accordance with the Land Development code and the MDA um therefore staff is recommending approval and the applicant is here to answer any questions you may have questions for Penny Stan N Scott NOP Mark yes um on us one M for the entrance there um the Del Cel Lane they're going to put in a new Del Cel Lane there and as a developer carrying the whole cost on that or they going to look for a share agreement with the city no there were not the city they're not asking for any money for the city I don't believe there's a Dell Lane well a small one yeah there but um just in front there um they also are required to make just some median improvements here that were designed and required by fdot but that's part of their development requirements they the city doesn't contribute to any of that okay so there will be a turn if you're heading south through you'll be able to turn in if you're heading south as well um no so no not from here so this is this this Lane can you see my cursor moving yeah okay a little bit so th this was required right now it's just an open it's open um do required this safety Improvement here so that if you're going north you can turn into Farmbrook and from Farm Brook you can turn left out but this is not to turn into the development you can't do that from here you would have to go a little bit further down and turn go further down and make a U-turn mhm don't necessarily but this is this is what dot requires it's a state road so we're B they're smart um that's all I have for now okay as I recall when this project came forward I think the the concerns we had pardon me were the the the streets are private inside mhm but we were concerned about the parking for guests for visitors but it meets code it's above code so code code code requires four visitor spaces they're providing six right plus they're they're providing the spaces that are required on the properties right which even six I don't think is enough but um and then the streets are they meet code but aren't they kind of narrow the so as part of the Pud they they were the Pud that was approved allowed the right the full RightWay width to be a little bit smaller so that they don't have the sidewalks on either side but the pavement the pavement wi is the same and fire approved which I totally dislike but it it's kind of a small it nobody even uses the sidewalks in my neighborhood everybody walks in the street okay thanks I have one issue with this in general and it's it's come to light through my experiences and and with with what we've done in Port Orange before and I'm I'm dealing with some issues in in Orman and it has to do with the historic trees okay and we have two of these lots that have tree wells around two historic trees and in my opinion those are a mistake okay they don't work straight up I went to that site today and I looked at the trees because I was I'm dealing with it in Orman right now and again so make it go out and get an arbor out there right now and tell you that it's going to die but to have the these two lots try and protect those two trees does several things number one it deteriorates from the lot because it makes the lot it's it's bad for the lot itself because now you have a hole in the lot with a tree well the tree is going to die okay the tree well is only 26 feet that tree is well beyond 20 26 feet in canopy and we tried that when we first built the Walmart at the corner of Nova and and dunon and we tried to protect trees in that parking lot they didn't work they don't work so in my opinion those two trees need to be sacrificed however it goes put those lots back to being straight up lots like the other 10 okay and and calculate some trees somewhere else on that site okay because those two tree Wells are not going to work in my opinion we did have our landscape architect review that design and it was recommended that they would successful yeah but they're they're five feet in the ground they're not going to work I'm just you know and here's the deal so after and this is also what I learned so once that guy builds a house on that lot that tree no longer becomes a historic tree it now becomes his property and he can tear it down if he wants to without any permit and without any repercussion oh yes ma'am he can well I know in city of hormon this this what came up if it's a single family lot it's not a historical tree anymore that's not accurate you have to have yeah the state law was changed about a year ago and the only way you can take out a tree any kind of tree on a single family property um with an arborus report only is if there is a target that there's that it's creating um an impact to a Target and a Target is like actual property it is though because the lots are so small what I'm getting you know it just it would depend you know on what happening but they can't just take it out without having all going gone through that analysis I'm just it's my opinion that we would be better served to either pay into the tree bank and and or take those calipers it's 51 in and a 23 in and spread those calipers out on the rest of the site elsewhere so when it does mature it matures into something that's better looking than two trees in in that lot that are going to die we good I'm good go this is an informational question Penny um H to School concurrency uh there are guidelines that are those is the criteria for that the same for all properties and this is just for my information for instance it's the same countywide oh so there a senior no no no so it only applies to residential property School concurrency there are exemptions for developments that are 10 units or less and there are exemption for age restricted communities but you have to to have deed restrictions on the property okay I see so senior if that was a senior family or but they would have to prove that they have deed restrictions that go you know for several year like it's I think the school requires a minimum of 30 plus years you know we we'd like to see more than that if we're going to make you exempt from school got it thank you okay everybody good with Penny we have a presentation or the appli here if you have questions anybody have questions for appli good afternoon uh Cody Bogart from new Kirk engineering the engineer of record um he representing the applicant as well um I am here to answer any questions I don't I don't have a presentation Penny did a good job of explaining I know drainage is a large concern and I'd like to hear the concerns of the Citizens First and I can answer all them collectively at the end um same thing with traffic about the meting out there in US1 um other than that I'll be happy to answer any of your questions right now yeah since you brought up drainage um I know that the the main drainage for uh for storm water is going underneath Riverside I believe right you going to drill that you going to open cut that what are you going so there is an existing in the foser rideway which is on the north side of the property which is city-owned rideway that's undeveloped and what we've been told will never be developed into a roadway um has an existing ditch that goes to a covert pipe uh 24-in CT pipe that already goes uh under under the road into the river and we'll be draining to that ditch in the ride of way that then goes out to the river so you're draining into a ditch and the ditch picks up the covert and goes under the Riverside Drive and then into the river from there yes that's how the site drains current the site drains currently now to the rideway up to the road then to that ditch okay do that water ever back up it does it's it's tital in most obviously being that close to the river so tide would yes fled and that's taken into consideration in our calculations uh with our our boundary conditions so we look at that with our storm water design to see how much our site can flow and then even how much our site can back up onto it so any water that we would be pushing from our ponds that most see is happening it would actually stage up and back up into our storm water system um until everything else recedes just as a global system much how much backs up from the from the river uh calculation wise it varies tide to tide but I mean okay we can see it see see it out there putting like one those duck build so that so water can't flow backwards and just flows out so you're saying you don't want our site to help the global system and back up into it I don't want the I don't want the river flowing back into the into the ponds I'd rather have it so that when the water leaves the site it leaves the site not comes back onto the site um well I mean most most storm water ponds especially wet detention but you these are dry but once it reaches a certain elevation it's going to it's going to Water's going to do its thing right so yeah our s's going to hold back as much as possible and then if it goes over that much as possible then you know it it will in in a 100-year storm situation you're talking it most most sites flood and that's they're designed to make sure that they're not affecting off-site properties I'm aware of that but we we haven't considered that at all that we I mean I I would prefer that the the water not come back on site if we could if we could PR at this point I think regulations kind of hold me to not do that okay any other questions for uh go ahead so again I want to talk back to that drainage issue and about that ditch so is that ditch on this property um it it was it was slightly and we're coordinating with with staff to move it and keep the keep the effective width of it so we're we're cleaning up some jurisdictional maintenance problems there and then making it also CU currently that ditch doesn't work I mean that it's I don't know if it's clogged or if it doesn't go anywhere but I don't does it really truly go under the road yeah it is an equalizer pipe that flows underneath so there's no he large conveyance pushing it but it is a CU what I noticed on this site was you're pushing all your water to the west to The Ponds and into the ponds but the bottom of the pond elevation is 3.5 yes and the river is at what 0 to plus yeah so is is are the ponds going to always be wet no so the soils out there we have geotechnical borings that show the water table and in these Sandy conditions just like most of Port Orange it es and flows with the river and it also es and flows with water table so they're designed to be above that water table to where they can still soak into the ground uh usually horizontally right so um those ponds will will recover in the 72 hours that we're allowed to but I think these ponds recover in uh 40 hours so during a high tide though won't be hydrostatic pressure it's going to keep the bottom of the pond already wet that's taken into consideration with the geotechnical borings that we get and then we have the factor of safety that we go above and beyond because I was kind of surprised that the bottom of the Palm was at 3.5 I mean I just thought that was low in relationship to the river you know not necessarily to the site but to the river well from a pressure standpoint the wat is want to go to open atmosphere in the river before it goes through soil on on any site so all right thank you are these homes they're being built are they stem wall or yes yes they'll be on Foundation exposure stem wall foundations saw that in here yeah the reality of that lot is it it takes a ton of water and tides and rains a lot of it comes from other properties that drain onto it I know that's not your problem but that's the reality so down the road what's going to happen is the neighbors are just going to start complaining about that building the building on this lot have caused flooding on the other properties which we hear all the time and the engineers will tell you well we're we're taking all the water that comes onto our property the reality is this property right now takes a whole bunch of water from the other properties around it and and we are doing rideway work um on Riverside Drive that lets us you know sump it a little bit more and kind of give a nice roadway swail and a covert pipe on our driveway which I know the previous homes didn't have any coverting or any type of sale issues those been demolished so we're providing a little bit more storage next to the road that gets to that ditch a little quicker and more efficiently yeah it's it's it's it's not going to be pretty down the road though that's all okay thank you very much thank you comments from the public please come up and state your name and address you first get to you um my name is Brenda Wilson I live at 5610 Riverside Drive um you guys had the map up earlier I am just to the north of the property um where the uh City's fer Boulevard is not cut through I am to the property just north of um of that and I am concerned about drainage been flooding because we've lived there since 2012 um I've seen that lot flood and be underwater for several days um and in all of those storms that we've had hurricanes and just regular storms the water has come up in my property but I my house is not flooded so I am concerned about the growth on that um lot so any kind of consideration because um I don't want to flood thank you thank you I'm and I live in harbard point harbard point is a circle right off a Riverside Drive I have pictures that can show you that at a king TI too I mean if you want the water Oh I thought they were actual pictures I don't I didn't have anything to print them on we don't really have any way to look at that so um let me just show you how much the Ducks love that lot and then there is a king tide um this is my neighbors in a kayak on Riverside Drive because it floods if we have a heavy rain if we have a tide okay can you go back to speaking the mic please just to make sure we get you on record I have a lot of pictures because I walk my dog on Riverside down the street I have grandchildren that live up the street and they're expected to get from seol which is where the school bus drops them off and walk to their home which is Point Court right up the street in these floods and the Ducks loved a lot because it fills with water every time it rains or you have a king tide Riverside Drive is under water all the time so your answer to that was to dig a hole all along Harbor Point to catch this much water it doesn't work we had three days of rain we got only an inch and a half and the entire everything was flooded again they I don't know why they came in and dug this hole it looks like hell all along Riverside Drive at my house let me show you that one too we can't we can't speak to what they did for for p no no I'm not but that's what they call drainage for Riverside Drive is this little tiny mess and then along Harbor Point they they dig a hole there and that's not helping either the water has nowhere else to go the road is too low and the people that are going to buy these houses along Riverside Drive are going to be flooded every time there's a king tide every time we have a heavy rain and and I've been there for 33 years and the King Tides just keep getting worse every year and higher to say nothing of the Hurricanes that we had um we couldn't get in and out of our neighborhood I mean I stayed through the whole thing but the roads were flooded so what did they do they come and they put cones up and say you can't go up and down the road so unless you have a kayak you can't get out of my neighborhood and that's why I oppose it I just think it's wrong because they will all flood thank you thank you my name is Fran fight I live at 5679 Riverside Drive I'm the first single family house Harbor Point the Big Bay that's my house next I've lived there for 43 years I've seen homeless people in that lot I've seen drug deals in that lot I watch people make wheelies in that lot so I really would love to see something beautiful across the street for me and it hasn't been for 43 years however on a good rainstorm that River comes over the banks I mean I could have brought photographs too I didn't think of it the river comes over the banks it takes weeks after a rainstorm for that lot to dry out kids are in there doing wheelies I mean I'm out there trying to stop that it's it's a crazy area um the last storm they said that in was going to be a tropical storm you know normally we prepare better for a hurricane down in that area but that was tropical storm my area doesn't get hurt unless the wind's coming out of the Northeast but boy that lot on a daily basis if it's raining it's it's flooded there you know what's going to happen if they build that land up what's going to happen after that the trees that are there they've been they're 200y old trees I mean I know what they are I also watched one of them die over there and I there was a rumor that it didn't die naturally that's heartbreaking to me I I'm torn do I want something beautiful across the street for me after living there for 43 years yeah I'd love to see something beautiful but I won't don't want something beautiful to ruin the rest of our neighborhood we besides a quiet little Street you know once there was going to be a wall up there and then all the traffic was going to go on Ridgewood okay that's great it's been 43 years of frustration when I first moved in there the first year paid $900 to stop what was going to happen over there that was 43 years ago and every day it's like another another oh my God what are they going to build there now so I'm I'm perplexed but I don't want to see that area get any worse than it is I mean I don't know what the answer is but I sure hope that somebody in engineering is going to do a thoughtful job that's not going to make it worse than it is now I mean now water that's our retention Pond to be honest with you that's a a million doll retention Pond over there and that's what it's been for all these years if I own that lot I'd be really angry I mean I would but I live on the other side of the street where the water comes in that's all I got pictures if you need pictures I got 43 years old if I did like those I'd be happy to bring them the next time thank you thank you for your time anyone else Robert Commissioners Robert reinh 1425 deex to drive Ford Orange um on page 51 of the agenda packet it talks about the stem wall it says stem wall Foundation designed by others and then there's another place where it says stemwell Foundation East Side recommended for Lots 1 to 10 um it sounds like a setup to me when that land you know that when that those buildings sink into the swamp that that guy is not going to take responsibility for it that we've bought it because it's designed by somebody else thank you thank you Robert anyone else good evening Council my name is Bob Thomas I live at 1102 Harbor Point Drive uh in the Harbor Point subdivision I'm also the vice president of the homeowners association just a clarifying question from the packet uh I think there was a paragraph near the end that talked about repairi and rights um I don't know if we could look at that or read that for the group um my question about that it talks about uh no docks or no repairing rights as it stands for the the that area however if the owner petition for adjacent repair rights uh could someone explain to us or if it's the right place what that means um because we do have a tight area uh in that between I think this lady's home and and our property just trying to understand what the future could be and who owns that property uh on the east side of Riverside Drive um is that something you could help us understand just what will happen down there if this project does go through Penny you want to answer that for us okay are you are you finished uh yes just more about itk we'll have penny come up and okay just so we don't misspeak um how does anybody get on the list to find out what's going on in this area because the only way I found out about it today was someone called and said there was an HOA meeting over in Harbor Point that that said that they knew what was going on so usually it's listed there's a sign there's it's posted it's listed on the city website it's in the paper um we can have somebody talk to you about we don't really see signs over there at all when there's something going on unless there was one time years ago there was a variance we saw that but we haven't seen a sign over there if you go to the city website though you can find all of the meetings and all of the agendas and the agend find get on directly on the city website thank you okay any Penny can you come back up and and any more public we're good oh no we're not be this uh my name is Virginia toon and I live at 1110 Harbor Point Drive I'm a part of the homeowners Harbor Point homeowners association I've lived there for 26 years over the past few years we have seen greater and greater flooding coming off of Riverside Drive coming from the river coming all the way down behind on on Riverside Drive down and now it comes I live inside of there and last year during the hurricane because there's no place else for this water to go it was up to my garage in the front and of course then I had water coming off of the river up to my patio in the back I'm very concerned about the water and the drainage we have drainage problems already as all the people in here have stated and when you start putting more and more buildings and more and more water to run out you're just creating a problem for all of us insurance is high enough mine just went up another $2,000 to $55,000 a year once I'm flooded I probably won't be able to stay there because the cost will continue to rise my next concern is to because we have a beautiful little area in there the majority of us are retired people we take really good care of Harbor Point we protect it and I see our community becoming a walkway for all those people because they're not going to walk their dogs on US1 they're not going to walk their dogs on Riverside Drive because it's too busy and it's going to be a traffic jam there anyway going in and out so Harbor Point is going to become a trail for them unfortunately the powers to be some 30 years ago signed our streets our private streets over to the city and so now we don't have any control over them but I see us becoming their park and their place to take a walk so we're going to get flooded we're going to have strange people in our community all the time walking their dogs that they don't pick up we're going to become their walking area we're going to get their water and now we're going to get all the residue from them walking and using our community as a place to enjoy taking a walk in and I do hope that the city will consider that Harbor Point has been a beautiful community and a beautiful taken care of part of the city of Fort Orange and we would like for it to remain that way thank you thank you thank you anybody else okay Penelope crws planning so um to address the gentleman's question um so typically properties that are adjacent to R water have riparian rights the rights to be able to to use um the adjacent property adjacent to the water for water dependent type features like docks and things um when this property first came in for the Pud review um as part of the submitt you have to provide the deeds and things like that for the property the city has not been satisfied to this point that as part of the ownership of this property that they actually have obtained repairing rights as part of the ownership of the land and so that's why um the plans are not allowed at this point to have any kind of docks or anything like that because we have there has not been sufficient um documentation provided to us that they actually have real repairing rights so unless that occurs unless they provide documentation that satisfies the attorney's office that they do have those rights they will not be able to have a dock so that's what addresses that question um with regards to the to the lady that was requesting about notification so like I said this property was under review for a long time under the Pud review the zoning review and there was a big there was big yellow signs up on both sides of the road for many many months almost a whole year on that and during that process there's a phone number and we kept a spreadsheet of everybody that wanted to be notified um as I said in my presentation once your zoning is approved and you get to platin plans it's a ministerial review um there's no requirements for posting of signs and things like that um we aren't technically even required to notify anybody but because staff knew that people were interested in this development um and they notified US during the Pud process that hey can you keep us notified as it progresses forward we did go ahead and notify everybody that was on that that list that had called us in and gave us their phone number and email and have let I've had people call me over the years what's going on we haven't seen anything and I'm like nothing nothing's going on nothing's been submitted but as soon as it was moving forward we did notify everybody on that um was there one more question that I'm missing I think that might have been it I don't who does that land belong to it's an LLC I don't know if you have the exact it's an LLC I don't know the exact like name or the invest oh I'm sorry yes the lman purchased it yes the lman purchased the property it used to be um used to be a different owner but I think maybe a year or so ago the lman family purchased it um the other now I remember the other comment about um you know places for the dog walking and stuff like that this is a PUD so they are required to have the open space in the common open space so they do have um green areas on there they have a gazebo area and things like that so there are facilities that are required to be provided for residents in the Pud here so got it that's on the Ridgewood side of that project from what I saw on this plan it's all it's all on the US one side correct mostly kind of like on the side and and yeah more on the western side look like there's a little bit on her side but yeah much um question okay correct me if I'm wrong but when you have a project like this that that on a piece of property that's that already floods all the time like I feel like and maybe I'm totally off base here but I feel like all of the things they're putting on the proper to help with drainage is going to help their surrounding people yeah I I I think generally I would concur with you but um the engineer can probably come and and give you a more detailed answer um they aren't they're they're not allowed by law to provide it to to drain more you know provide more storm water off the property than it currently doeses now so it has it has to hold the same amount of water it does post development than it does does pre-development got and the city's got a little bit higher design standard where we were than some of the other agencies where we require them to design to the 100e storm um typically I know some of the engineers usually put a little bit of a buffer above that too um but I'm sure Cody can kind of get into the the Weeds on that if you need to better than I can I just feel like this area has always flooded so badly like project like this might actually help that and like I you know as you know this the staff development Review Committee is composed of many Engineers not just one there's multiple engineers in the cities from the from the public utilities and public work side um there their crew we've got the Community Development Engineers there's many Engineers involved in the review that ensure that they don't sign off on a plan unless it meets all the requirements are you saying that the volume of water before the construction or after the construction has to equal the water before they yeah they they have to be able to hold as much not water on property after as they do before they can't displace anymore so like it's got to match prepost like putting in ponds and that sort of thing yeah they've got I think three dry ponds and a storm water system that that that deals with a storm arter before it gets you know discharged into it to the to the ditch but Cody's here he's the the expert on he designed it so he can probably answer any questions you have thank you Penny welcome thank you Cody Bogart from newk engineering again um yes just like Penny said and Bo Bo questioned we are required to have a net Improvement so whatever we do we have to reduce it so it's not just meat they want to see reduction factors I can tell you right now for the the modeled rain events which are your heavier thunderstorms to the very heavy you know tropical storm type storms from that and so I'm starting out for 5 in of rainfall that's quite a bit of rain I haven't seen that in a while but if 5 Ines of rain were to hit our site we we were reducing almost let's I'll round down but 35% of the water so most of that water you see on site in those Heavy Rain events are hitting the site filling up the soil and then eventually falling to the rideway and and that's the water you see on the surface as it sits today uh we're reducing 40% of that and keeping it on site into our retention bonds um in the heavier rain events it's uh 14% And 14% so it's not as much but it is a very good reduction we always try to hit that 10% um reduction factor in the post development so Cody what I'm hearing is that the this site the construction on the site really has no impact on the neighborhood around it because it's water neutral is that right correct whatever impervious area we put down to the concrete roads so they're going to get the same amount of water whether that development is there or not you're hopefully less we're designed to hold back water and impact less so we're trying to reduce the amount of water that flows to Riverside Drive right now from our proper rain yes sir yes sir yeah rain water Lance no I mean here's the deal um you got to look at the Topo of the land now and unfortunately for for the residents who who who come and spoke to this and about this flooding issue is the property sits at elevation three and 3.5 right now I mean it's and the road is is elevation three these houses are going to be at elev 7 and 7.5 I think I saw and the tops of the pond is going to be at elevation 7 so so unfortunately it's it as it lays there it lays there very very low and the road's very very low and and a majority of the flooding and the water issues on that street are coming from the river not coming from the other side they're not coming from the rain they come from these issues that we're having with Mother Nature we're depicted on the river for our drainage straight up that's as close as you can get to it so what you see in the elevations of the property they're raising the grade of this property to compensate that water from the low grade that the road is and the low grade that the property is now the property is very low right now if I'm correct right I mean is it 3 35 the the the Eastern third of it is low and then it raises up to seven at at Riv rwood so so you see you know it's a very low piece of property to start with they're jacking all the property up and all the houses up to to keep that water on that property so that doesn't impact the neighborhood no correct so they can't by C it keeps the water in our ponds for a longer period of time and then slowly releases it to the soil which slowly releases it to where it goes now so we're slowing down the rate at which the water leaves the site which would benefit the surrounding water um that that's rushing in in between and through the right of way in River yeah I just wanted to understand that thank you Tom I have a question for Penny actually oh I'm sorry I totally forgot yeah Mark I'm good Scott good s so the the wild card in this whole thing is what's going to happen when the river Rises and that's you're trying to do as best you can with that but there's not a lot you can do right I mean you've got your the houses in there you're going to raise those up but will that create like a dam where it forces more of that water onto the neighboring proper so that's where I said the the Eastern third is low right um as mentioned before and we're trying and we're keeping that the same elevation while raising the rest of the site to to push the water that the site generates into our pond so so we're we're pushing water into our site not off to our so we're pulling water off you know again just kind of equating what we're hearing from the neighbors because they're going to be saying that it's because of you guys that this is going on and you're what you're telling them is that we're trying to do whatever we can to hold hold that water and we have to hold the water correct we have to hold more water than it does right now so that's what you're that's how you're designing to build it and that's what we have to let the neighbors know that you know we're doing what we can we're doing what we're required to do correct it's not just slapping something in there and if you flood out do that that's not have you guys had a neighborhood meeting um back in the Pud process oh it I thought I thought there was but it's been a while okay anything else okay I think good thank you Penny Tom had a question yeah I just want to make a question actually just to clarify we we we we had approved the Pud and the MDA 2019 that long yeah I know I know that's Co kind of just messes everything up all we're looking at today that's already that's done what we're looking at today is do does the proposal meet the technical requirements defined by the MBA and the Pud correct today is a platin plans it is what's considered a ministerial review We Are by Florida Statutes bound to approve it if it meets the technical and dimensional criteria of the MDA and the LDC we wouldn't be here in front of you if it doesn't um we we we don't bring anything to Planning Commission until it has no significant technical comments and it it meets those criteria thanks perfect thank you all right we have a motion and a second good evening I'm polling Fone 1222 Harbor Point Drive I agree with everybody said about the flooding but I have other concerns Harbor Point Drive is all one level single story houses the other side of us on Riverside Drive are single story houses the other side of the community single story you have a few double why would we want to you see our lovely little Community with 10 thre story tow houses that's taking away from the beauty of the area not to mention we've got old people but our community is mostly elderly Riverside Drive has a lot of kids we now have three single family home 10 single family homes and 16 tow houses the traffic that's going to be on that little area is is going to be ridiculous it's a walking area we all walk around there we all walk dogs around there kids are always playing around there you're now introducing that size Community to the neighborhood it just will not fit in with the rest of the area maybe on to Ridgewood but all this is on Riverside Riverside has enough problems we have to watch the traffic but I I just think we're introducing too many homes how many car how many bedrooms do these homes have three bedrooms you're looking at two two cars a family if not three in our little Community we have enough now we don't need to add that much more tow houses 16 town houses two cars each there's not going to be enough and as one gentleman said six visitors parking no that's not going to work what it's going to work is they're all going to be parking on Riverside Drive which is already justed as it is and as I said older community it's all 60 65 years and up where are these people going to go walking I just think the concept of a development is good but having worked 30 years in construction this is not good for the neighborhood and if I think if anybody walk down there they could see just not going to look nicely all it's going to ruin our little neighborhood thank you thank you can sorry public comments have to be closed at this point sorry um I have a motion in a second can I get roll call please yes Scott Seager yes Mark bowling yes yes Tom Jordan yes yes yes motion passes other business commissioner comment anything bo uh no not at this time Lance nope no signs no nothing not right now Tom no man thank you Mark no Scott I'm good Stan nothing staff comments nothing T nothing for us any public comments generally not about any of the projects it's already been voted on the engineer any other public comments Robert nothing no all right motion to adjourn second meeting