##VIDEO ID:T7E89s7696o## e e e e e e it's 9:00 and we're going to get started today call our meeting to order today is Monday August 19th it is 9 o'clock and it's our special Workshop uh I've asked commissioner Pickins to do our invocation and commissioner Turner will lead us in our pledge all rides if you're able to do so let pray our heavenly father we just thank you for this day and all the blessings in it father God we just thank you for allowing us to beet here as Commission and staff father God to discuss the fee schedules and other items father God just guide us in our decision today in jesus' name we pray amen going mege I Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the repic for it stands one na indivisible withy and justice for all thank you commissioner Pickins and commissioner Turner uh I two on our agenda public comment on agenda items is there any public that would like to speak on our agenda items and if so please uh come on up and see no one coming up then we'll close that section of our public comment and go to BC Workshop the first item is the Public Works Water and Wastewater connection fees page three of your agenda and Jr do you have that or yes sir um good morning good morning sir um so as we look at this it is currently written um where our water and wastewater connection fees are um by board action last year we waved the connection fees for the Taps um my suggestion would be do the same thing through 2025 because we have the same we have so many projects working in the area where we're finishing up our arper projects um is to is just wave those fees until the fee schedule of next year um and the commission that time wants to extend them be great if they don't then I completely understand but we have so many different connections right now that um and projects working I think that'd be wise just to keep moving because we got over 400 that are ready to hook in in duns Creek area off of the um arpa phase one project that you guys approved it's just now finish wrapping up so we're just kind of looking for some direction whether we want to continue to wave them or if we want to implement them uh but as are written here um and while we're talking about the Wastewater connection fees currently we're buying the lift station grinder pump and our folks are installing it I'd rather put that out to where they have to hire somebody to come in and a plumber or somebody do it and not use our twers staff to be tied up all day putting a a grinder pump station in um so I'd like to get to the point where they can we're going to uh I talked to Mr nolles we're going to write where they can get two to three different options for Lift stations and equipment and stuff like that and then they can hire somebody out of the private sector to go in and install them um that's just a couple little items I'd like to discuss this morning and see where y'all's feelings are commiss Turner uh yes thank you Mr chairman um currently what we're doing is is we're U even though we're buying grinder pumps if they pay $88,000 we'll go put them in but the current rule that we voted on that we're doing at the present time is if we have sewer in front of their house or one of these that we're putting in that they can hire a plumber as long as they buy the pump that that works for our system they can go and put the whole thing in at no additional cost to them other than the cost of the plumber and that's what we've been doing this year so I really think we need to continue doing that like Jr said until for the 2020 24 25 year and then the commission next year here can make up their mind do they want to continue doing that or not or whatever they want to do at some point I think the county needs to get to where um on on the sewer side on the water side it's a on the water side it's just a good idea for the county to furnish them a meter because we'll pay for the meter in eight or 10 months or something of their fees that they pay and let them hook in as long as they hire a plumber to hook on to our meter right now we've got the AR money that we're hooking people up until we run out of that money and then the Commissioners are going to have to decide at that point what they want to do you know do they want to continue hooking people up like we are right now or just put in a meter like we are right now and they hook up the plumber the plumber hooks so go higher plumber and hook it up on the sewer side we need to um we need the county needs to get to a point once we get through these Harper projects that we're on right now they need to get to the point to where the the county doesn't buy these pumps they don't hook them up they pay a $8,000 flat fee which is a connection fee if they want the county to hook the pumps up after that then they need to pay additional for the county to hook them up so the $88,000 they pay that in the future needs to be just for the connection fee and that money needs to go to help the plant expand or maintain or to do whatever the the case may be and then the owner has a right at that point to either hire a plumber and put in their own or they can pay additional and the county can go out there and do it but it doesn't need to be cheaper because we want outside people doing that where we're don't not having to hire an additional crew just to go hook up uh grinder pumps now originally I was uh we found out that we have to maintain the pumps on residential we don't have an option we didn't know that until just fairly recently we thought that we could just turn that over to them but we can't can't even if they buy the pump even if they put it in we've got to maintain the residential grinder pumps it's a d thing according to Jr so we don't have an option so I think that what we need to do is is just what Jr said we give them like three different options of different pumps they can buy because if we single Source a single kind of pump it'll double overnight on what that pump cost and then if there's a a supply issue you run into a deal to where they nobody can hook up because you don't have it but if there's three different manufacturers pumps and I'm sure there is they've already got two I think picked out and they're looking for a third um then that should take care of that so I I think that for right now we just need to continue on like the boards voted for for another year and get the people hooked up and we a lot of them are grants that we're working on um that that uh like the Overlook we put it in under a grant under arpa money I believe and um but it's always been the deal that we put in the backbone and we'll let them hook up to it um and they hire a plumber we and because it's residential that we'll have to we'll have to go work on the grinder pump if it breaks but on Commercial we don't so at some point it needs to switch over and that's a lot of what this discussion I think is today is when do we switch this over CU When we run out of grant money it's a whole different ball game so at some point we're going to have to switch this over to where there's an $88,000 fee just to hook up and you go hire a plumber and you put in your own stuff and then we'll have to maintain the the residential but I don't I think if we just leave the fees in there like stated in there at the present time but agree to wave them for the 24 25 year then the new commission will have to have this discussion next year on do when do you cut it off when do you you know how do you how do you charge do you hook them up for 8,000 like if we weren't waving them right now the county you if you paid the county $88,000 they go hook up your sewer we need to get out of that business that $88,000 fee needs to be a connection fee to go towards the maintenance and up keep an expansion of the plant is what it needs to do at some point and uh and then somebody else either hire a plumber and hook up or the or the county can do it but it would it would cost more I think that's all I have for now okay I have some question thank you Mr turn got on that's I'll get to her in just a minute okay thank you um I don't have a problem waving the connection fees for this coming fiscal year don't have a problem with that bit in the past U the administrator that was here in the past um I went to a function down I think it was in Sarasota and um they actually threw a pair of jeans into a grinder pump and it chewed it all up and I came back and said why are we in the grinder pump business why don't we just put this on the backs of our sit I mean not On The Backs but it something that benefits our citizens so my question to you is the grinder pumps that we have to maintain from D is that based on the grants that we got or the arper commitment or just any pumps that we do or if a new customer is hooking up a pump do we have to maintain that too we do it's because of the design of our sewer system because we maintain a low pressure okay sewer system I got you do we have the other question I have do we have a list of all the people we made promises to as far as on the arpa dollars the grant dollar all that because we sure don't want to get overcommitted here is what I'm trying to say Mr chairman the problem with that is is that we started out with enough money and meters to do 300 there about right the problem we've run into is I think our list right now is up to about 400 people so we had this discussion pretty deep the other day about water on the water side do what do you do and that's when I'd continue hooking people up and letting them and US Furnishing a meter because within 10 month eight or 10 months we'll pay for that meter and then we've got another customer that's help helping us make that system sustainable so on the again on the sewage pumps do we have a list of the people we made promises too we haven't made any promises in the sewer side okay because that was you didn't give us necessarily any arpa dollars to do hookups in the sewer side okay so we did the the through arpa we did the backbone system at RI Vista and Overlook point and the rest of it was water so we made the commitment in watering yeser we do have a a running list of people and what we've told them is is because what we have noticed going into this is sometimes whenever we put it out for contract and because we went ahead of them and put the meters in our crews have installed meters in front of the actual plumber itself what ended up happening is we're seeing that the people get a little anxious and then they go pull their own permit while they're waiting on the rest of the process to go through so every once in a while I think we've ran we've done a full 50 we put a couple out for test plots and things so now we're in full swing and of those we probably had five come back that they'd already hooked their ownown up so we're able to keep moving down the list you know um as time goes by but right now and we're telling them as anybody calls in today is we're waiting you know if somebody cancels or anything along the line we'll absolutely bring them up we yes we do have a rolling list of everybody that we've made commitments to that through the through the program okay thank you Mr Pickins and then miss Wilkinson yeah Jr with um do you actually will you actually maintain these pumps or just have pumps available to replace them is this something that our staff actually fixes or we yeah if we have the ability to fix it we will um it may be a float it may be you know just a wire or plug that tripped out the ground fault or whatever that they could go by and maintain but we have to keep a certain amount by the D rule in stock on hand ready to go so that the people aren't without for 3 days while we're waiting the part to come in so that's why I wanted to really limit the amount that we have that meets our specification so that we don't have to stock 25 different pumps so if we can keep it in a small narrow range that way we don't have to keep quite the inventory okay I guess moving forward it' be documented of which pump was put at which location I'm sure they're just going to have to run out and see which one it is and then they'll probably carry one one of each on the trucks that they're on and then that way that they could always change it out when they were there okay all right that's all I have Miss Wilkinson you know we just approved that 580 un development East Paca part of that agreement included Water and Sewer tap fees so my concern is if we're waving the tap and I'm all for waving it for individuals but how do we still recoup something from this um developer because I was really relying on us receiving the water and tap fees from this this developer so if we wave it now does that cause a problem in the future that we're not going to be able to get it from this developer I wouldn't think so because at their best assumption they're going to be at least two to three years out before they ever put the first home in so that's why I was just W to do it through the rest of 20 five so that we'd understand that we got all the projects we currently have on board and if you guys want to raise it after um 25 would be great because we don't we got so many projects out there right now that that if we change it Midstream by our document we'd have to go charge them October one right in the fee schedule so we need to either a wave it or B not I mean but the commitment that we have the list that's in place right now post October one that's why I'm trying to find some language on what the board wants to do well I I you see my concern concern so it's a timing issue is what you're saying but we have no idea when I mean we truly don't know that they're going to wait till October 1 2025 before they put in a permit to access all the water and her yeah I I think you guys approved zoning on Tuesday um we did right and in that zoning and in that agreement it talked about that they pay the water and sewer fees so if we're waving them now my question is if they come in on you know July 1st of 2025 would they have to pay this water and sewer fees no because we it just waved them that's the problem I have okay but you're saying that that you don't think it'll don't know what that time frame is right that's just that's a that's a true statement I mean we could say individual or I mean I'm for some I it either but I'm not good with that with that Development coming in and not paying these fees and I don't know how we make that happen but it's it we put it in the agreement and it's you know that's $5 million to this County to help continue the water and sewer infrastructure in that area and so I I'm having a real hard Pro time with this okay commission you I'm done that's what that's where my questions are all right we're going to hear from commissioner attorney then we're going to take a three minute recess okay um that's a wonderful Point yeah it really was we discussed that in our meeting the other day and I don't that I would probably need Rich to weigh in or whatever because I I would not be for waving the overall fee for everybody but it we could we could change that we could change that where we wave the people that are on the list for water right now and for certain areas that we've agreed basically agreed to the residents that we were going to do this like the Overlook Real Vista area we everybody in there know waving those fees and they're all geared up um and there's another one down in South down around duns Creek or somewhere that we've agreed to wave the the fees on just to hook up I believe as part of the the arpa money that went in that was water the arpa money down there wasn't it in dun Creek yes sir that arpa is one that's south of uh old s road water though right yes sir yep se's already been through there so so that's a different thing so very least I guess we could if we're concerned about that I wasn't too concerned because I do believe that that it's going to take them a while to get there but if we could build something in there that the indivi put the individual will wave is for individuals what could could could you say that that they're ready for water and sewer today the ones that are currently on our list that are ready today because I mean that's that's the infrastructure that we're trying to take care of right now is ones that we have water and sewer in front front of as of October 1 because that's truly the one we're trying to get to could we wave them I'm asking a question for you guys could we wave them the rest of this year is already waved till October 1st could we wave them for October November and December for the first three months of the year could we just wait then and let it be Revisited at that time there's no way in hell they're going to be ready by first of the year I mean they still got to go through development review site plan review um they've got to go to Water Management they've got I mean there's no way they can get that done between on the first of the year cuz I'm at absolutely agree with commissioner Wilson on this one absolutely agree we're going to take a three minute e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e in our meeting um and I go along our conversation um Jr you had some comments you'd like to make yeah I think maybe to to help if we if we did it in the area we currently already have utility with no expansion right so where we currently have our utility today without expanding Beyond Today I think would anybody Beyond today would be subject to all connection fees just where we currently have our infrastructure today um may may help um the only other project that I know we have Beyond today that we're committed to is the septic to sewer phase 4 um but that's 100% funded by the uh water management so we don't have any investment in that and that's in that same area that um we just put the water in and um horse Landing which we already have water in that area now so we just be putting the sewer in that geographic area Beyond a day we have no other expansion so if we did any further expansion past today I think they would be subject to the the fees and you when you say further expansion that's further expansions of our main trunk lines correct Water and Sewer correct okay Miss Wilkinson so are you saying there's no water and sewer in front of this proposed development at this time that's what I'm telling you yes ma'am okay I thought we had it going up two excuse me thought we had it going up 207 it's on the opposite side of 207 I mean but they would have to extend our current infrastructure to their development okay I mean I'm just I'm looking for wording too but I mean if if they had if if they had to tie on to our existing system I think it should be subject to the fee could we could we are we can we put um individual versus um subdivision or you know in other words we can wave the fees for current residents for or something like that I'm having a problem with the that's be res I think we probably need to get I think we understand your intent we can get with Rich I think we understand the intent of what the board's trying to accomplish and this is a Redline version so it's just a draft right we can get with Rich to ensure that we've captured the intent of the board in the language of being proposed um if the board can give us some overall you know what what what's your end goal um then we can bring back something from Rich that addresses that concern well considering we don't have impact fees in place my end goal me just speaking for me obviously is that we do not let developers come in without paying the 8,000 or500 9500 total until we get those impact fees in place something it shouldn't be on the backs of the citizens for us the rest of us to pay for these developers to come in that's where I'm at and there can I age if I may there's nothing that says that we can't if y'all decide to implement impact fees I don't know that they'll be here before November if y'all decide to if y'all decide to implement impact fees next year there's nothing to say that you can't have a connection fee along with your impact fee I mean I know that other Counties have too I mean they have a connection fee for your services if they're available because you can't charge them if they're not available I've been told that accurate or not that's what I was told you can't charge an impact fee on services that are not available to them so the it may be that you could charge a connection fee continually on if they're on sewer and water you could charge both connection fee right now I think we're $2,000 on water aren't we Jr and $88,000 on a sewer but we're going to wave that through hopefully at least first year and let this get these people hooked up that we say that we're that we've made commitments to okay so I think the consensus is exactly what we just talked about um and you're going to be able to bring that back to us in a timely fashion the language yes yes sir think you think by the next our next meeting on the 27th yes sir okay can I just one thing maybe for some consideration um the water connection fees this is solely my opinion we should wave it for the 1 in meter and below I don't think we should wave a 6in water tap going into a to any business 100% agreed so I would like if we could put some language in there when it's that we will provide a free tap for one in and below that'll take care of all your residential needs but it maybe not for necessarily for a firan connection or anything like that agree may I ask a question what how much more is a 1 in than a 3/4 because 3/4 is what we're giving everybody right now I believe isn't it yes sir we're we're currently I don't know the exact price but 3/4 inch is what we're putting in for all residential today in with the arpa dollars is 3/4 inch meters so you could say 3/4 and below is is is waved and one inch and above is is is as a charge 3/4 inch is 15 $0000 yeah that I would be in agreement with that I think 3/4 and Below anything above that's more than necessary than just necessary single family residential yeah so I think it needs to be like it is right now what we're using for the arpa projects which is 3/4 inch or below that's what my suggestion would be that we do and I concur so I don't have a problem with that all right we um we're going to bring something back to us for the next meeting and it's going to have the three things about our our our trunk lines our main lines anybody already promised in the 3/4 inch and and below and 3/4 in I mean one inch and above okay and what about commercial I have a question um we talked about the pumps are we responsible for the pumps on commercials no ma'am all right and that's already been clarified on yes ma'am you guys put that fee in one one meeting last year that were they're responsible for mainten to make sure okay thank you okay anything else on the Wastewater and water connection fees and we'll move on to our administrative uh FY 2425 Fe schedule Mr Turner okay um well I realize that it's very important that a lot of these fees are increased some these fees fees are increased I don't think we need to increase the fees all the way across the board um I um if you turn to page 15 in the current packet um it has um we're we just spent a year and a half of our time and effort and County's money to try to make the county more affordable and accessible to and and taking a shorter time period by doing the admin administrative deviation committee and so I don't think that we that two or three meetings later should just start raising fees on those that we just spent a year and a half trying to make it more affordable so my suggestions on this page would be to leave the the uh resoning and the resoning for the future land map the same and on the plan unit development that we have two categories one category would be 10 acres or under and the reason being is that the 10 acres are over has to go to two meetings and so and it probably takes a lot more work for the staff to do a 10 acre over so I have no issue whatsoever in increase the over 10 acres to the $2,000 but i' this commissioner would like to see the one under 10 acres go to like $750 for under for under 10 acres um and the same with the uh the minor modifications over 10 acres go to the 500 that they're requesting and under 10 acres stay at the 350 where it was um the special use permits um I would like to see that stay the same at the 750 and the reason being is that's exactly what we just spent a year and a half trying to to make more affordable accessible and make the timeline shorter and the the uh residential and nonresidential variances I just don't see where it's taken more time to do them I'd like to see those two stay the same the administrative deviation committee on the page 16 can we go one page at a time sure whatever you want to do Mr chairman okay so so what I'm hearing basically is resoning 750 resoning future land 7 350 on the Pud creating two categories one at 750 and one at 2000 may may I say maybe under 10 ACR on the Pud would be a th000 and 10 acres and over would be 2,000 just to keep the numbers correct fine with me sir and I don't have a problem with the other the minus 10 under 10 on M on U minor modification and over 10 at 500 I don't have a problem with that special use I do agree with and the variance I do agree with residential and non residential so does anybody else have an issue with what what was proposed yeah why would we go 500 Below on the new whenever it's it's already, 1500 why would we go to 1,000 why wouldn't you keep it500 and then 2,000 cuz it's under 10 acres and it doesn't take as much time to do it and three three years ago we had this same disc might have been two years ago we had this same discussion when they were trying to raise the fees at that point too and so just three years or so ago they were $400 or they were whatever so we went and there's been a pretty good increase in the last few years would you be okay with that or you want to keep it all right commission Mr chairman I just I I I agree with the the part and the bottom part is I was just reading this or reading the whole packet and you wonder what made um the special use permit go up $100 and so if it needs to go up $100 and I think there needs to be some type of notation in here of why you know uh wages or this that and the other has gone up um but it it probably takes the same amount of time and everything so I agree that we should leave those three at the bottom the uh special use the residential and non-residential Varian at the same same rate okay any other questions okay Mr Turner on page 16 we have the ADC the administrative deviation committee and we went up at 250 I'd like to see that stay at 150 I did too and the other three below it need to be the difference between the 150 and what we're going to charge I mean I didn't sit down and calculate them but they need to be the difference between what the ADC charges for that location and what it would cost if there wasn't an ADC and it went on to zoning so those three need to be refigured to what whatever they actually are um let's see the first one would be for an appeal or continuation to the ADC would should be whatever it costs to go to the zboa to start with um which would be let's see a variance which would be 500 for residential so it' be 500 so so it would be 350 still that right 3 500 yes still be 350 difference pills or continuation the zboa or bccc for non-residential would be 450 because it's 600 so that would be still correct at this at this level and the appeal continuation to the ZB for special use permit special use permit is 75067 so they're all correct now the numbers that are written in there are correct so basically what you just said is it's first of all it's the $150 charge and then it's the 350 and then it's the 450 if they go on if they go on okay through either the appeals to yeah through the appeals process that we set up when we redid the Land Development code okay any questions on that page before we move past 16 okay commission turn on next one's all the way to page 39 sir um this is what we were talking the other day we had a long lengthy discussion on the St John's Harbor water system and we talked about splitting those two categories instead of East placa and St John's Harbor we were going to have East placa at these rates that are listed here that we have already voted on in past and then we discussed that we were going to have a St John's Harbor was a different category and that St John's Harbor I think we discussed the other day because we were going to go from 3 to 2,000 gallons on consumption to make them all the same that we were going to go to 8150 instead of the $90 that was proposed because it's that's 1,000 of consumption off the $90 that was proposed so I think we need to add that in there that that's that's done as a separate category and can be tracked separately Okay so under where it says East PL I see what you're under St John's Harbor we'll list two different classifications on that but they're going to be $81 and 81 separating out separating want align item in the in on this chart right Amman Harvey yes sir so can can I ask what the Strategic goal is for St John's Harbor uh because I know that that you guys passed a million dollars we paying that million dollars back to the general fund because if not why are they not on the same rate for East patka uh if if if we want to pay that back I'm I'm I'm for it but I mean why would we charge a base rate of 85 in one spot and 45 in the other I'd like to charge them 150 so okay well I'm just asking I mean that we're going nice at 8150 we're trying to pay it back and that's what we had decided the other day I think commissioner Harvey came up with a deal that we were going to actually loan them the money okay and so then they're going to pay the the pay pays back as they can on loaning the money and that's why you know and I know the 8150 is not enough Jr not pay them back the loan and do everything else either I'm just trying to be have some compassion towards the you know the people that live there versus the terrible situation that we're in um so yeah last I heard the the deal was that we were going to loan the money the county and we were going to follow the loan and then they were going to pay it back as they could and I wanted to do $90 but then you discussed that you'd rather go to 2,000 to keep all that the same and so that's how we got it to 8150 because one gallon of water would have been the eight I mean 1,000 gallons of water would have been the $850 so we took that off the $90 and the $881 that's how we got there I just want to make sure cuz when we have to explain this to the people of of of the harbor that were all on the same page that was all I want to make sure that understood I understand can give them my number if you want I'll volunteer that on television no sir I think it's important to know this and before I call on commissioner Adams that um and I'm going to do this as gently as I possibly can some of these fees in these departments still are a still are subsidized by the general fund let's just be honest about this and when we talk about a water plant in anywhere in the county but we don't talk about the neighbor down the road that has to have a pump replace and he's doing it 100% at his cost we are subsidizing the rest of the people in the county are subsidizing the actual expense and one day this board or a future board has got to sit down and go we've got to quit putting these we got to make these departments whole if they're coming in for a permit I shouldn't have to subsidize that if they're com in for water I shouldn't have to pay part of their water I should only pay for what the services I'm using for that's how I feel I mean I don't know if everybody feels that way but one day we got to know what is the cost of us doing business when somebody comes in for a permit what's the cost of getting a gallon of water I know what it is at my house I can I can know my pumps I know my electricity usage I know all that and that's what we've got to get down to so commissioner Adams that yeah and I don't think it's out of line I mean we separ out the other one support point of we then Paradise View and so it's just a separate utility we should and we should track it separately too because that way we know if we need to lower it or raise it for future commissions but that's all I want to say thanks thank you commission Turner I think where you draw that line at Mr chairman is that if it's a service that we're going to require them to do which is building and Zoning the county should participate in that because everybody should it's available for everybody all available that's the difference between that and a non-required service such as sewer and water and what have you you don't have to participate in that we don't even make the people that live in the area participate in it 100% should think about it but we don't and so it's basically required something we force them to do versus something that they can or cannot do you know that's not required and so I think that's where you draw the line I I think it's unrealistic to ever try to get enough fees or permits at Public Works to start Paving roads and do drainage and stuff like that and it's also pretty much unrealistic to ever try to get them to pay a full boat next door Planning and Zoning on things that we require them to so I think it's difficult we can try to get there closer or what have you but I think that's where you draw the line difference required versus nonrequired and and I appreciate that conversation but it wasn't just a few years ago that we were finding oursel in a position where gosh I contractors were submitting erroneous building plans just to be in the hopper making our staff work more and more um and I came up with an idea why don't we just say if a perm fee comes with four inspections and if you don't have a good contractor they're going to pay more more inspection fees I don't know the answer there but we had some people that were really following the rules we had people that were really trying to get in the hopper was messing things up I think it comes down to do we do we have one permit fee that and I know we're way off topic and I don't mean to be but I'm truly going to say we got to get we got to find out what it cost to do business all of us have been in business for oursel sales per manh hour are very important if it takes somebody 15 minutes to do a job for one person and it takes somebody else an hour why did it take that other person an hour we all know that and that's what we got to try to get to and and then maybe we can be more efficient where it doesn't cost all the taxpayers money while it is off topic and I'm not going to try to bager that but you're going to run into it again next year you're going to run into it again because when you implement impact fees they won't be implemented as of day after tomorrow they'll be implemented within 30 or 60 days so anybody that knows they've got a project coming that's what clogged it up last time if you remember way back when it really clogged it up because everybody that even thought they were going to be building something within the next you know 90 or even six months they went ahead and put a set of plans in the queue to get in line to to keep from paying the impact fees and then they'd come in and and um and change it to whatever they really wanted to build or whatever they'd come in and modify their permit before it actually got done and so and they'd hold and it's easy to hold it up if you don't really want a permit you just want you to be in the queue as you call it because you just don't give them all the information they've asked for and they can't issue a permit till they get their information so it happened mons before way back when and y'all are going to run into that again next year there's no doubt but sorry to help you get off subject on page 39 do we want to fix that what water is that no that's not the 3/4 that's a one inch meter 3/4's right in front of it okay is that we're fix are we fixing that too mhm yes sir it's not going to say one one in is going to say 3/4 correct okay all right is well you still have both we're just going to wave 3/4 and Below okay good one inch is an option for somebody that's got a small commercial that you'd still could use a 1 inch meter so we're using 3/4 in residential so we'll wave 3/4 and Below all right commissioner Turner okay my next comment was on page 53 um the last one on that list was a the road vacation I can understand going up on that one because it's a lot more work than what the others are but the others going up 50% a piece I can't I can't figure out a reason why to do it other than we're just raising fees uh again this is public works and I don't think we'll ever be able to raise enough money for the public not to participate with some tax dollars in in services at public works but the bottom one is out of line it needs to go up to 450 or even higher for a for a uh Road vacation so I think they proposed 450 so that'd be fine I would like to know why uh what the reasoning is I think obviously I don't believe that staff or Administration just said oh we should we can raise fees so let's do it there has to be some reasoning in their mind as to why they felt like they needed to get to this point that's where I'm at Mr Stout would you like to explain that um I'll speak to the road vate first um commission turn is very correct as far as the amount of time it takes for a vacation because of the amount of research that goes into it the Deeds uh the recording fees because then once we do a vacate of a road we have to record it and those come out of our funds not the funds of the people that are wanting the road vacated so that's one reason why we were wanting to go up uh I also agree with commissioner Turner that 450 is light um but going up more than 50% seemed like a big jump in one year and so I just wanted to put that out there some of the other fees yes they all went up 50% um some of those things take longer to do than what we normally do and cost of business has gone up but as far as not getting the 50% on everything else we'll be able to manage the vacate is the one that really needs to be hit hard thank you MH but you still you still ascertain basically that you need a 50% increase because of the cost of business is just up and they've not gone up uh for a few years now um will we be able to do it without the rest of them yeah I've spoken to that already uh but the road vacate is the one that we really need to get out of all these that are listed here which ones along with vacation do you really say I need to have this do you have your list I don't have it in front of me give me one second so tell me the ones that you go these these are just completely costing the county money give you the next page too cuz that's what's coming next okay the rest of his request okay I had a hard time believing that everything just magically caus 50% more this year well I think it's a threeyear accumulation when when's the last time we reviewed this we review them every year year but we didn't change and last year I didn't change anything we didn't change anything so when's the last time they say yeah when's the last time it has really been I could answer that question do you know Mr commissioner attorney it's been about three years since we did a lot of changes on it we changed a lot of things in the building department that was the last time around that we changed the time flies for me but no I appreciate that about three years and then you know that's when we changed the table the last time I believe on the cost per square footage we were upgrading today that all that was changed back then one thing about these fees these fees are paid for by the citizen applying for this to be done that this is basically new construction coming into the county and these people are going we've got to have this job done right correct not NE not necessarily driveway permits it may be somebody adding a driveway the driveway repair it could be somebody that's needing to repair their driveway you know right now we're having trouble we've got to have driveway permits we've got to have them because if you don't somebody just go dump a little of dirt in the ditch and call out their driveway I understand day but we we need to at least try to have these permits so I get it but do we it's kind of like when uh we had the discussion on do we want to take as many tires at the landfill as we can and do we want to because if we don't they're going to dump them in the woods so you know we have amnesty days and we have everything to try to discourage people from dumping their tires in the woods that doesn't mean some of them don't get dumped in the woods it just means that we do everything to keep that from being a burden and this kind of needs to be the same thing a lot of these permits people are going to just start hiding a lot more if we make them more burdensome than they already are the just because we're talking about driveway um I would like to see that one go up because we don't with Mr Hager running our driveways now he's not taking anything just by picture he's going to every driveway site to make sure that um we are where we need to be uh as far as mitered ends the right size pipe that's going through the ditch all those kinds of things we don't do anything just online any so if I was moving in and I needed a driveway permit I would pay $22.50 for the connection fee and the permit so driveway connection permit is one right now is yes you would correct I'd pay two okay good I'm with you and really those are only going up because of the amount of time it takes for him to go out and do it because we're not doing it just by pictures anymore the road vacation I've already spoken to um well the flood thing isn't you that's no building and zoning and I'm sure it takes a while to go through that the commercial driveway would be another one because I know that just involves our guys going out there and looking how many the others I'm I'm okay if they don't how many times on a commercial driveway permit was they have to inspect it before it's for before and then after so to inspection okay and most of those are through DRC anyway and we have to speak to it then and then I go back and talk with Mr Hager and they do their driveway permit he goes out and looks at what's going on so the road vacation the important one based on the fact that the research and the recording fees that need to take place yeah some of the road vacates can take um Miss Chase over a day's work and so you're looking for her 8 to 10 hours plus recording fees we had one road that we vacated not long ago I believe the recording fees were approaching $2,000 and so that's coming out of our account when we're vacating the road for those individual citizens and they only pay 300 to get it done commissioner wilon uh thank you uh I appreciate you bringing this forward I um just did a quick research on my phone and the cost of living adjustment for the past three years when you add them all together is 20% increase so I agree with commissioner Turner I think 50% might be a little high but I I don't know that I agree that we shouldn't adjust some of them or all of them at least at the 20% rate because we have had that much adjustment as far as cost of living and that kind of thing so cost of doing business if you to make us where we were three years ago if if you added 20% on top of all of that then I would agree with that number and I'm good to go okay Commissioner Adam that oh I'm sorry Mr sugs you had your light on prior to I'm sorry Mr ad that yes sir Mr chairman uh there's also recording fees that are associated with that as well but you know no one on this side of the DI I just I guess as count Minister make it clear to we're not married to any of these fees correct but what we are married to is the fact that we know that we've had costs go up we know that we've put staff in positions to make the citizens uh taken care of as well so make sure that they get the product that for which they paid for and I think we we're seeing that with a uh with the decrease in CS that we're having and so so the services uh being provided by Public Works is uh is doing what it's supposed to be doing but there is a fee associated with that with the cost cost of the time and inspections and all that and that's kind of where we're at is looking to recoup some of that cost for those positions that of Need for for our citizens through the poorts division as well as those recording fees and and permit fees but again no one on this side of di is tied or married to these fees but there is an Associated cost with providing the services for which we're providing out of public works right thank you Mr Adam Z you have the floor so for the ones that have recording fees why can't we just have the fee in say plus applicable recording fees is if they're different on each application like one was 2,000 one might be 400 that person that's getting that extra Road vacation it costs 2,000 should be paying that not the citizens agree and I'm I'll have to speak with Marie Chase but she may be able to find out what the recording fees would be before the citizen goes all the way through the process so then she would be able to tell her it's 450 plus it might be 1,500 for the recording fees do you want to go forward or you got attorney yeah Mr which would be fair to the citizen Ian I had that written down Mr Turner I turned your light off I'm sorry I actually agree with that that it'd be but if we're going to do that can we stay at the 300 plus fees plus the recording fee instead of the 450 or do you need to be 450 plus recording fee I would still like the the 450 if not the 450 the 20% that m M Wilkinson was uh referencing for just the increases over the past three years because it is so much time it takes Maria away from a lot of what she does when she does a red vacate 20% would be $60 so 360 so I would prefer the 450 but I mean like uh Mr sug said I'm not married to any of them so I know but if it's still costing us that much time why don't we keep the the road vacation at 450 plus recording fees M and leave that one alone and I'm in favor of raising all the others by 20% yes sir thank you I don't know how everybody else feels but that's how I feel that would cover your recording fees in most cases recording fees usually are $10 a page or you saying 20% plus recording fees no I'm talking on the V vacation 450 plus recording fees I understand the rest of them all move up 20% instead of 50 you're right okay thank you I'm in favor of that I'm okay with it I'm okay with it okay so we have I definitely want the recording fees in there that just said wow hey and if there's anything else that needs recording fees I don't have a problem adding them to that does anybody else have a problem I don't okay so is as long as long as a citizen knows up front that there will be recording fees because I was shocked to know it would be that much on a road vacation I figured it'd be maybe another $100 or something no they can be pretty pricey yeah I agree prob depends on how long legal description is probably how many Deeds are involved yes sir all right Mr Turner last thing I have was on 54 it was the same thing so can we just go up to 20% like commissioner Wilkinson agreed amendment to go go to instead of 50% across the board is there anything on that second on page 54 that you go this is an anomaly and that we need to look at cuz I'm all in favor of the 20% flat across the last one we need to leave it where it is the penalty for work without a permit first offense should go to 375 and second offense should go to, 1500 because if you don't build penalties in there substantial enough people are going to try to get away with it so from right away permit extension up is a 20% increase 20% is and the bottom two the penalty for work are going to be 375 and 1500 yes sir okay I'm good with that too MH everybody else good we taking a vote or what are we doing here just consensus okay and that's all I have Mr chairman okay let's go back is there anybody else that that has a page they need to pull Mr Pickins do you have any he got most of mine but I know there were some fees for um Animal Control I was just wondering what the changes do you could explain those Brian can you do that I'm not sure what page it's on 37 37 what page I'm sorry page 377 the fees on the animal control yeah I looked at these Mr chairman and I I don't know that they're even high enough now yes sir and and that's really what it was that I actually wanted to be higher but I just don't want the citizen have to take on that much so um this is just a percentage of what is surrounding us and what we charge is very minimal to what um if you if you want if you have a certain one you want me to answer I don't mind at all but um as a whole um surrendering of dog and all that a lot of that gets waved as a whole but um just I mean no every shot everything cost more that we that understand that I was wondered your reason if you came up with just a percentage or if you ask Bas did so all of them um compared to what's around us were literally double or triple what we did and so I just H the percentage to get there in 2 to 3 years and and I broke it down for each one I I can show you that what my end goal is but um I was trying to get I was just trying to double or triple on the citizen that's because that's craziness so it was just a percentage of what the hole would be so if you have it would be crazy if if the pre if the costs are being artificially lowered or been held down for they have been and they have been because we want to get our animals adopted correct okay right and if if we're doing that and can justify it for that particular reason and can afford to do that I understand but also not incrementing these up periodically and then waiting 10 years to do it and then we lower the boom on them that doesn't look good for anybody the citizen thinks we're taking advantage of them and we're just trying to take care of business is all we're trying to do I mean I can I can put them in there as the whole I mean I don't mind doing that but I was just trying not to be so hard on is and with with it no you're fine because it does cost more for x y z for everything we do with that and we're substantially lower in all those categories so if you have one that you want me to give exact details on I can but no I'm fine okay thank you m turns M just one more on the uh Solid Waste special assessment on 43 that one's already been approved by resolution so Solid Waste is truly a formality in this particular so that's what we did yes okay even the one that's not highlighted on page 43 the commercial permitting original application sir that was in the um that was in the resolution that we did we already pass that one correct at the solid your Solid Waste um disposal District drives this particular one we just capture it in our annual fee scheduled draft so that you guys see it as well okay but on 43 is not highlighted it's just it's black lined out its original application went from 150 to 250 and then renewal fee went from 50 to 100 would you get a red bark or bark is red yes sir just a formatting issue I apologize but yes that was includ sorry commissioner I can't help being a smart out and what you have already passed her okay thank you AR the man all right sorry to waste that time you didn't waste the time at that's all I have actually this is a really good time I meant to talk about this and I missed it off of mine I think we need to talk about adoption fees page 3 yeah bills I had it marked and then didn't do it so I'm not so sure those shouldn't be more I mean I don't know just for adoption and and I need somebody on the other side of this to have discussion with with me Brian or somebody because we're we're all the time waving them we're all the time trying to do everything we can to adop dogs we're all the and we're going to go up on the adoption fee I mean I I don't know I I need somebody to discuss that with me from the other side I mean what would happen if we just said for $10 you can come pick you a dog out because then instead of of small family that's got children decides they want a dog the $75 might be a deterrent to them where five or $10 would might not be a deterrent we could get more dogs adopted yeah yes sir and so I'm I'm open to either way in regards that a lot of the most of the time um through think you that but that does help BR so if if so so I'll give you an example Klay County charges 250 for an adoption fee so there's multiple people who charge um different levels for that so um we can drop that down to 10 if you'd like to do that and see if we can get more go ahead sir commissioner I think that are you the chairman now sir you get to be the chairman Sor that's all right I'll keep my mouth closed we're gonna have a little humor let's have a little humor right go ahead while I think there's great opportunity in adoption events where we weigh fees in this particular realm um one of the things that we struggle with in Animal Services is owners being able to care for their animal and and a sterile dog the adoption fee is $15 if if that owner if the difference between taking that home that animal home and leaving it with us is $15 because they can't afford it they're not afford the vet bills the dog foods the leashes the fencing all of that it's a responsibility factor I do that's why I was saying that there's two ways to look at this do we let them adopt one for 10 bucks but you're saying then they might come get it and say well this thing cost more than I thought and just turn it on out the back gate what we're concern we have that problem all the time and a and a sterile adoption fee in this particular realm is only $15 to begin with the sterile dog so um now when we have adoption events and we're trying to um entice and really build community support and that types of things if we want to wave those fees that's a one-time situation um but in this particular realm I I think it just encourages responsible fault behind owning and the investment of this animal it is not a it is not something you can just neglect after you take it home from us I'm good may I ask a question on you okay here's my question on that let's just say for example and I agree with you on that that you know when I when I got my last dog it was explained to me how expensive labador were going to me and I made that commitment and it did cost me to take care of that wonderful dog but he's no longer with us so what if it came down to the client comes in and they just paid their light bill and they just paid their grocery bill and they just filled up the car with gas and dag gum I just don't have that little bit extra but I'll have it next week or I'll have it next month whatever the case me but I really want to take that dog home is there any way we can go at that point to give you discretion to say all right just take the dog and you know give us 15 bucks or whatever the case may be cuz I think the main goal the main thing is to get the animals to a loving home and I don't want a barrier and I agree I think the conversation's going the right way I don't want that barrier be I do want them to be in a loving home that can afford to take care of them but maybe they just spent their paycheck and they just drove by pound that were the animal services new building and they stopped by to see this and just don't have that extra money chairman you've already given the administrator the authority to way of adoption fees okay good so if that situation were to happen and staff were reach out and say we have a very unique circumstance that it exists today I'm sure he would say yes just got his dog from training school did he graduate by the way pardon Mr thought you had J no Julian basically said what I was going to say good all right good or did we get our questions answered on good I just think that's a good time to start that discussion it's only going to be a few weeks we're going to have whole Animal Services discussion gotcha okay Miss Wilson do you have anything you want to go no I was just going to say that I was surprised that um we took a little heat when we did wave the adoption fees we you know we're sitting up here thinking we did good and there's certain people in this community that didn't like the fact that we waved the adoption fee so it's I know you can't make every everybody happy that's the job we have but um I'm with everything that's on the on here you'd be surprised make everybody happy no matter what you do you're right if you gave away free barbecue it's because you gave me beef and not chicken right I've had that happen okay just what it is Mr adamac do you have anything on these Feast schedules no I don't okay and I I do have one question I want to talk about and then I think we're pretty much HED that one um the other day I the fees on the zoning and stuff um that goes back to a batement is what you were telling me today julan right codes codes fees only we right we project what the codes enforcement is going to bring in and then we fund their statment line in the beginning of the year with that projection that is how they fund the abatement uh projects that we do because In Here Also under the fire one that the P I got to find it it was the fire fee something in that go to the um sqv sqv small quantity generators where where that page at Jr do you remember I'm trying to find it for you I was reading it yesterday that's okay as long as codes goes to a batement and the other one went to that I'm fine with that they can't oh it's here it is it's on page see I had it all marked and then I left that one at home and I apologize and I can't find it now so that I'm good with it the fees from the health department exhibit e page 22 did all did that come from the health department these recommendations yes sir that actually came from the state of Florida legal council for Department of Health okay good I'm good then any further questions on I have one question M Wilson um this just might be a lack of knowledge on my part um so we have added tires brought in with the rim will incur an additional $10 fee for fee for Rim removal are we um we have the equipment staff that's taking those tires off the rim themselves yes we do that's what I get okay all right that's fair I mean that's that's a very fair price actually um so I just wanted to make sure I understood that thank you Mr Pickins I'm sorry you had your light on yeah before we I guess leave this um discussion drton Island fairy I spoke with Karen condal who operates that and nobody reached out to her about fees now it may be up to the county to just do that and tell her what they're what she's going to get but I don't think that that's the way it's been what page are you on 21 okay uh Fort Gates fair is not operating so I don't think we need to have a discussion until that is possibly uh repaired and will start um you know operating again and that's a little different situation because they own the barge at Fort Gates and we we own the landings um so I think JT you and I probably need to get with with car and to just have a discussion with her uh but also that fery has to have the barge we own that barge at at drton island and it has to have general maintenance every year or every so often years and it's almost to its 5year anniversary which will probably mean it has to be taken out and have a visual uh inspection out of the water so she mentioned that to me so we probably need to have those discussions as we move forward so it just doesn't come up that this is a year and you got 90 days to do it so okay we down we need to keep in mind that this fee schedule is not written in stone so if it gets passed and then Karen comes up and says' look I can't do it for that you need to do this all it's got to do is that section of it got to come back to the board for approval again right and I know her contract I guess is now up in December so maybe that's the time to have those discussions but that usually the contractor her operating it um but then all the other fees I would think would be the discussion between the county and Karen as the provider so but the biggest one of the biggest things is is it's due to have its yearly inspection probably will still be in the water this time but she said probably every 5 years it's got to come out of the water and it has didn't want to get caught where we didn't have a place to take it how it's going to get there who's going to inspect it and do the work so okay okay thank you okay anything else no not for me okay good then we'll move on down to y'all got all the changes on okay good thank you on item C Mr Stout I can do that one JT I'll work on it so um our surveying Department did some research and found a way for them to optimize their efficiency uh with new technology um they used a they call it a tremble surveying uh machine and they actually went out and did a dirt to pave Road in four hours it would have normally taken them a day and a half um so it it was just an efficiency thing this thing able to transmit between the field and the guy that's in there doing the drawings um so one of the issues we've always tried to do is we tried to Outsource surveying for just our simple as our dirt to pave and it was $140 plus, to do the surveying for dirt to pave the problem is with our folks that are out there on the street doing it it takes them almost all year long to get through a list of dirt to pay at the at the rate they're trying to do plus us pulling them off the street to go do whether it's checking for drainage easements whether it's checking for rideway whether what just a oneoff surveying problem they have to come off of dirt to pay so I asked for two of them uh one of them was just so they can strictly stay on our dirt to pay the type list and one of them that the helper could go out and start checking for sea whether they need access drainage you know so we're not having to pull because right now we got to pull everything shut everything down to go work on a different project if something was to come up in the middle of the day so that's kind of where that was it was technology they actually went out and did a road and floor home um a couple weeks back that Wes and um Andrew were able to do in four hours and then did a complete Road survey so I think this is highly needed and it's been a long time coming so any other comments um Mr chairman yes sir I highly support the getting one of these pieces of equipment I really do but I personally I'd like to see that one of them got bought now as quickly as possible like write a check yesterday possible and that the other one gets bought whenever we try it out for a couple of months and make sure that it's going to work like it is I mean it I know it on the government scale it's that $30,000 or $40,000 is not that much money but I'd just like to to to make sure that even two months from now bring it back and make sure that we're using it and that it's working out like they thought so you know I'm I'm willing to go ahead and do one for sure and then I wouldn't I wouldn't be a opposed to doing the two if y'all decided to but I would rather do one I I concur with you it's just been I mean it's proven that it works I mean they they went out and did a road that be just my only rebuttal to that is they've already done it I mean they went out and did it they drove a road in Flor home I think they did Ivy Street or whatever one was on the dirt to pave list and it's been done it's just new technology that's just making their job more efficient I just don't like having to pull somebody off a job to go down and do a quick survey somewhere else and when somebody could continue just to do the work that's the reason why we asked for two was just so they can continue to work without pulling off a dirt to pave list well we had this discussion this morning you um and like I told you then we've done a lot of things in the past that we did with good intentions very good intentions um most of them have been fixed since then like when y'all bought the spider it was before I got here It's s around for like 5 years and never got operated now Sean uses it every day now so he's back to using it but when they it sat so long they about had to redo all the hoses and the batteries and everything else but that was a critical piece of equipment when it was bought the uh spray machine it sat around here for two or three years in in the back of Public Works and never got mounted on a truck and I think Jr told me that they're using it regularly now so that's wonderful I could I said we did a lot of good things with good intentions that are working out today and and I uh I I'll make the motion that we buy one of these for him today you're if if you're going to go with one from procurement and budget you're going to have to table it all together we'll have to get revised quotes because the discounts and the itemized price is based on the purchase of two as well as the budget resolution how much did JR pay you for that speech all he need I'm I'm fine with two and I I think there's definitely efficiencies there and it is becoming the standard for surveying across all surveyors so I I see it it's a two-fold thing it gives our people the best equipment to do their job and there is no efficiencies I see so we'd have to go back out for bid which would take up the whole more time and slow the process down and everything and said unless we just decided to go on and do it for the quote we got yes sir you'd have to have revised quotes in order to um comply with your procurement code as to what you're buying as well as a revised budget resolution I bet Jr got a B up today how much you want to be he he's not concerned of how he gets it he just that he gets it so they want to make a motion no yeah I make a motion we go on and buy the damn things and be done with it I lost we got a proper motion to buy the $63,600 resolution by commissioner Turner second by commissioner Wilkinson any further discussion hearing n all in favor signify by saying I I oose like sign the eyes have it okay thank you very much Comm County attorney Rich Commando don't see you okay County Administrator Mr sugs yes sir Mr chairman thank you um this was a an interesting meeting you know so um thank you for uh for going through the fee schedule the way that you did thank you for the increases and also uh for the uh conversation here at the end uh with the equipment because it is time and I appreciate the uh fact that we went ahead and bought two so we can keep the staff moving forward on that but on a personal note Mr chairman uh I would be absolutely uh remiss and I'd probably be in big trouble if I didn't take just a moment to wish my wife a happy anniversary today and uh you know it's been a a absolute wonderful 20 years 10 years of marriage and I absolutely am the happiest and Most Blessed person here today so uh just wanted to make sure I wish my wife Julie Masters a very happy 10e anniversary day happy anniversary thank you okay commissioner comments Mr adamac yeah so during my time of creating Chaos on the internet um I've had some criticism about the way that we do dirt to pave um overall and it it not that it was anything specific to any of us it's to all of us that we don't get enough done all that kind of stuff and I've just been thinking about it and maybe there's a different way we can do it and um had a couple conversations with some staff members on the high level but if we're using better place plan funds to do dirt to pave and we know we have better place plan till 2035 why don't we just pull those funds today and basically make that the commitment like they did for the jail to pay back the funds and whether it's now or the next commission and basically just a lot a lot more mileage today and get it done at the cheaper rate we've seen this in the time that I've been here that the cost per mile has almost doubled just in the four years three years and three4 years um locking at today's rate and do a bunch of miles across each district and basically do that in one shot um and then pay it back out of the better place plan fund um just think maybe that gets us a lot further along where we need to be cuts a lot of our maintenance costs down over the years and uh you know stops this stuff where we have you know if I was to finish Lake Susan Road needs to be done someday it's going to take seven years to someone committing almost all their dirt to pave splitting that between that and cousin toown and that's if they don't want to do anything on anywhere else and there's examples probably in every District like like that and it's just kind of people think it's dumb that we're doing little bits at ends the roads and we can never get them to meet and then when we change commissions you know those things change the priorities based on the different people's thoughts so just wanted to run B by the commission get the commission's thought and uh see where it goes commission Turner you have a comment yeah five years ago I know that that Leo and Paul wasn't here then or the commissioner Adam Z and commissioner WS is H um we went through this motion we went through it I spent six months on it I went as far as hunting bonds talking to the clerk of court of how we' get it do the whole nine yards we got all the way down to the last to the last ready to pull the trigger and the head of public works at the time came up and said well because it's such a big package a big Paving package we're going to have to take all our engineering outside we're going to have to take all of our uh uh surveying outside so it was going to cost 20 to 25% more money than we that's why that not a period of time do what so that's why that guy's not here anymore well I'm just telling you right now the the theory and the mathematics of it haven't changed they don't have the manpower to do a $20 million Bond and get it done within a year's time they don't they can't we're we're a year behind on the dirt to PVE the that we got going on now so I mean I understand the theory of it I mean we went delved into it hard cuz I agree the concept is wonderful but the mechanics of it are not as easy as as what we're as what it we are making it out that it is so I I wouldn't be against it by any means at all if it was in a a way that we could make it work when they they've done this one time in the past many years ago they went and borrowed some money and they did some Paving Unfortunately they bought they did the paving at the highest priced asphalt that's ever been recorded in history um and so it didn't work out too good for them then either instead of stretching it out over a period of time as they could afford it so I I wouldn't have I'm not adverse to the idea it's just that if somebody's going to take the time that's something that needs to wait on the new Commission because if we vote it in they come in and turn it down we're all just wasting our time well and let me say this you know I agree with you and a lot of Roads did get paid back in those days but a lot of roads that probably wouldn't have gotten done but but truly if it's an 11 years left on the better place plan and we get you know basically five miles you're looking at 55 miles I have one group in my my district that wants all seven miles on one road today today and that I mean I got 300 over 300 miles of dirt roads you know what they really want they want all the money from every commissioner up here to go to that area and I keep telling them that's not going to happen either so there is no easy way of doing this unless we just everybody and I don't even know if we could pave all the roads in this County so um Jr you had a question yeah I just like to say I like the like the conversation because I think it's obtainable today I don't know that it was obtainable back then um we have an engineering staff in place that I wouldn't replace with anybody in the world um I think if we had a well-laid plan out for many years to come I mean even if you did it in increments of $10 million at a time I mean it's that's two years worth of dirt to pave I just want to say this year in dirt to pave that they pulled off two lists of dirt to pave in one single calendar year uh because of the efforts of those people there so I think that I think we had the ability to do it now they we didn't have the ability back then but I'm just I mean for like commissioner adamack says I mean some of the stuff in our Emer response cut throughs like Lake Susan Road Old Hawthorne Road those are critical and we'll never get there in the pace we're going today um and I mean there's other ones but in in his particular District down there where he's speaking of it's 30 minutes for a firet Tru it don't care how you drive there without that those cut through roads being done so at some point we need to prioritize on how we get the major thare cut through roads done for our emergency response so that was all all right Mr Turner commissioner comments I don't have anything else other than just carry that one step further like I said I think that needs to be on the three new guys to show up here and have the conversation I truly do it's a good conversation for them to have conversation us short timers we don't need to be making $20 million plans that's going to bind future Commissioners commissioner Pickin comment uh that's a good conversation I remember um having that I know commission Turner was heavily involved in it um is to try to um you know I think we're going actually get the bonds or borrow the money to do what Paul's talking about and it makes a lot of sense one thing that we're trying to do um I combined some 23 and 24 money together to go a little bit further and definitely better than it was you know six six years ago when we had this discussion so uh I think it may be a possibility there um so in good conversation with the fee schedule um today and um it's all I got thank you commissioner Wilkinson um this is on a very personal note I've got two things um some of you may know that my brother had received a transplant in July July 23rd it was actually at the board meeting um that he was receiving that so he got to come home yesterday from the hospital he's doing well and for those of you who prayed for him I really appreciate it I'm excited that he's has a new opportunity on life and on a second note um 36 years ago tomorrow not today your anniversary is today mine's tomorrow um Eugene and I U married you know we got married in a in a my parents backyard um I had a dress that I bought from the Satsuma flea market and fixed it up but anyway um here we are all these years later with a beautiful family and God's been good to us so happy annivers to Eugene that's special yeah congratulations and um I have I did get a text from my niece right now with CSX and she's got an answer on the old Hawthorne Road so I'll get I get the email I'll get share that with everybody um there was some issues about the U crossing of the railroad track so I have e working on that um I have no other comments is there any public comment on miscellaneous items and seeing no one run this meeting's adjourned thank you