okay I don't see I don't see smiles to order the zoning Board of adjustment ran Township New Jersey regular meeting March 7th [Music] 2024 the notice requirements of the open public meetings act acts act has been satisfied by the placing of a notice of this meeting on the Bolton board at the municipal building filing same with the Township Clerk and transm same to the Hun County Democrat The Courier News Star Ledger and the Trenton Times Roll Call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia Scher here Vice chair Mr rul dami here Mr Steve barcio arriving late Mr Randy block here Mr Jim Ferrero has asked to be excused Miss lindsy cool brel here miss lorett ktina here Miss Donna Drews here Mr James Miller he is asked to be excused as well board professionals board attorney Mr John drill here Township planner Mr Jeffrey Vella here for sonographer Miss Jackie clap and all other board professionals have asked to be excused you didn't call yourself and myself board secretary Taylor Bon here okay can I get a motion to approve the absence of our board members I'll make a motion I second roll call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes Vice chair Miss Russ d yes Mr Randy block yes Miss lindsy K bral yes Miss Lorette ktina yes Miss Donna Drew yes great moving over to comments and announcements boa case number 04202 Thomas and Mary an Lawrence 104 Oak Oak Grove Road is a withdraw I apologize John I forgot to bring the letter but that application has fully submitted a letter of correspondence from their representing attorney that the application has been withdrawn and that's that's never come on for a hearing correct or incorrect they has not so they have the unilateral right to withdraw correct okay okay moving forward to minutes we have a minutes from the Board of adjustment meeting February 1st 2024 does anybody have any additions or Corrections hearing none can I get a motion to approve the minutes so move second roll call chairwoman Miss Cynthia Schaefer yes Vice chair Miss rasul dami yes Miss lindsy K bral yes Mr Randy block yes Miss lorett ktina yes Miss doners yes great thank you meeting minutes from the board of justment meeting on February 15 2024 any additions or Corrections hearing none can I get a motion to approve make a motion I second roll call please chairwoman Miss Cynthia schaer yes Vice chair Miss rul dami yes Mr Randy block yes Miss ly Co bral yes Miss lorett ktina yes Miss Donna Drews yes okay great moving to the first case this evening uh boa case number 02-2020 applicant is Flemington Family Partnership LLC block 7223 plot 31 328 Highway 202 application is for a d variance with BK variance for proposal of two car dealerships can we is there a letter on that one yes can you read that one into the record please you want me to read it oh I don't care I don't care as long as it's not me okay dated February 28 2024 Dear Miss vond as you are aware this office represents the applicants in its application to the township of ring Zoning Board of adjustment relative to the above caption property be advised that the applicant agrees to extend the time for the board to act to June 30th 2024 in addition regarding the applications the applicants updated plans we are still awaiting guidance from the board engineer regarding the soil testing requirements in order to finalize the amendments to the storm order management design as soon as we receive some guidance we hope to finalize the plan amendments and resubmit the plans to the board in short order thank you in advance for your assistance and please feel free to contact me with any questions so let me just ask what what does that letter mean that they're waiting for guidance from She's stating she's awaiting their Engineers awaiting guidance from Mark who's the temporary board engineer sorry she said that she's uh their engineer is waiting for guidance guidance from Mark the temporary board engineer Mark KRC um I did speak with Mark and what type of guidance I don't understand just follow aren't they supposed to they had to do additional tested okay so under the new storm water Rags there's certain do they mean they're waiting for a report from him yes and he did provide that okay when did he what's what's the date of the letter the date of Cara's letter is February February 28th okay when did Mark give them a report yesterday March 6th ah okay now I understand I didn't the word guidance I couldn't understand if he what she was talking about but I get it waiting for his review preliminary okay semantics I get it sorry sorry Jackie all right so we're going to oh so this is not being carried to a date certain this is going to be rescheduled which means they're going to have to Ren notice because apparently they're waiting they were waiting for Mark's report he now gave them a report now they're going to have to do a redesign and a resubmission presumably after that there's going to be another report filed but it's going to be a revised plan which they're going to have to submit you know 21 days before or if they ask for a waiver no less than 10 days before so we have no idea what dates we just have to keep a lookout on this one because the they extended to June 30 if we have to make sure that we don't get into June and they haven't done something or we have to ask for another extension or dismiss it without prejudice because we don't want any automatic approval okay okay yep is anyone here in the audience on Flemington Family Partnership no okay okay before we move to the next uh application there are two applications this evening I don't think we'll take uh all that time but just to divide the time equally each application will have approximately just over an hour an hour and 10 minutes and um hopefully we'll get through them both but I just for those who haven't been here before I want to make sure everyone understands moving to the next application boa case number 012 24 applicant Doughboys Inc block 16.01 lot 60 164 Highway 31 C variant for generator placement within required principal building sidey yard setback of 20 ft good evening good evening chairperson members of the board my name is Steven Gruenberg and I'm the attorney for the applicant Doo Inc and doo is essentially Angelo and Danielle CAPA yeah a little tiny and you're going too fast wow that's two marks against you tinny and too fast so I'm Steve grinberg and I represent Doughboys Inc and Angelo and Danielle Capa trustees who are essentially the owners of the property and have been operating Angelo's restaurant for the past 42 years in the township of ridan um we're here because because Angelos is desperately in need of a generator for their sump pumps and what they've been experiencing is that when there's a rain event that causes a power outage and flooding um they lose significant amount of um food stuffs and materials and and it's causing thousands of dollars of damage every time that there's a power outage so they need a generator in order to be able to have that sump pump used um you'll when you take a look at the pictures that we're going to submit and you'll see the survey that was submitted there's a bunch of gravel in the backyard some of it extends onto a different property owner after we had the survey done is to put it right out there in front of the board where that came from was during the covid crisis my client was allowed and restaurants were allowed to in order to keep functioning they were allowed to have seating areas outside in order to be able to continue their business um we recognize that that might be a concern now that CO's no longer there so all that gravel area and the patio furniture that's in that gravel area we're willing to remove that and just go back to the paved patio area that's been there for a very long period of time so really what we're looking to do is put this generator on the side yard where's the the most logical location for it to be in order for us to be able to um make those Sun Pumps work during the power outages quick question so we got this revised survey with the last date of January 26 2024 so you just said okay they're going to they're willing to remove the stone but you said there's a patio P that's been there for a while I'm I'm looking at the resolution that was attached to Jeff's memo I don't think there was an approval for that those that pave patio in the back yeah we can ask U Mr about that in terms of she's not she's not picking you up we can ask Mr cap about that in terms of the approvals that he received but there was a fire here at one point and all of those plans and Architectural plans were all submitted to the township and what's there now has been reviewed the only thing that when you say what's been there now has been reviewed you got a zoning permit and some sort of approval of the pave patio that's my understanding but I'll have to go to Mr Capa to talk to him about that I can tell you we're going to ask to see the paper for that and also that where indicates a fence in the back again just eyeballing it that area looks like again I'm looking at this approval that was granted and that granted you I the applicant I believe a rear yard setback variance for 33.5 someone tell me 33.5 33.5 and I'm looking at the survey and that's at 22.36% right uh stuff happens after 42 years when the fire happened and and Architectural plans were submitted and things were approved from that per purposes but I need Mr Capa to testify as to that we're willing to work with the Township in terms of anything on site um and we're willing to state right now that all that gravel area can be removed we understand the gravel area the other ones I assume when you're willing to work with a Township you're willing to apply for V es for the looks like a rear yard encroachment for the the pavement area looks like it's a further rear yard encroachment over from what you got the prior approval for and then someone's going to have to do a calculation on impervious to see if if that's over the requirement also he say and we go ahead we we need to to explore that in terms of what happened in the past with the fire and work with the um Mr Barella on those ISS issues and if it's necessary after we work with him then we will come back for whatever relief is required the emergent relief that we require right now is that c variance for that generator and that's why here tonight right I'm not downplaying the need for the generator how come it became an emergency in January when you filed the application and it wasn't an emergency all of last year will talk to Mr Capa about that okay I just I submitted the proof of service and publication of the notice of hearing and I asked that jurisdiction be confirmed so as far as the content of the notice I'm satisfied how about Taylor with the uh certified it is satisfied okay so in my opinion the board has procedural jurisdiction over the application okay and is that working yes okay so I'd like to swear in the witnesses you have anyone other than Mr capol okay and do we have anyone other than you Jeff no okay so Comm Mr Caple and Mr Vella raise your right hand and do you swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir okay and C can you give us your name for the record and your position with the applicant Angela cap on the own of Doughboy Inc okay Steve gber will tell you I'm a stickler on these things when you say you're the owner of do boy Z president of the corporation and you own 100% of the stock correct okay thank you and uh the owner of the property is you you and your wife as Trustees of the trust correct correct and okay hold on hold on hold on Mr Vella what your relationship to the board Jeff Vella Township planner and board planner planning expert okay so um Mr Capa when did you purchase the property 1983 and have you been what was on the property when you purchased it I'm sorry I came to Flemington 1983 I purchased the property in 19 got to go slower and louder I purchased the property in 1988 and you've been operating Angelo's restaurant for how long 42 years and it's been in r in Township that entire time yes sir I'm sorry just so I don't have to do the arithmetic if you've been operating for 42 years it started when 1982 okay so you before you purchased the property you were operating it and then 6 years later you purchased the property correct okay and when you purchased the property was the restaurant there or did it have to be constructed no I was already there okay and at some point you got relief from the planning board uh for uh building expansion for the restaurant I did a lot Steve we're not Steve you're dropping off ask that question again at some point you got you obtained relief from the planning board for an expansion to the restaurant yes and was that 2003 well I did a lot of remodeling there uh the last big one was in 2003 because my kitchen was a hazard and back then I believe was Humphrey was the uh the Zone officer and the planner right and the planner and when I went to see him uh I had the board of help I think it was John I can't recall his name it was 140 degrees in my kitchen so uh with the the blessing of the Board of Health Humphrey gave me the okay to do that big addition in the kitchen which now they're saying it's 10 feet over the property line and I even purchased the building next to me to try try to make this thing work out I purchased that building in 2000 which well the building on which lot next to the um cing restaurant which is a Chinese restaurant in the laundry map there's a lot 59 to the left of you to the north of you and the lot 61 to the right or south of you which one did you purchase 61 all right uh there's the Starbucks to my right if I'm facing 31 going north it'll be the one to the left 61 so you what 61 you purchased the one if you if you purchase lot 61 it's the one to the right if you purchase the one to the left it's lot 59 it depends on which way you're standing but if you're standing on 31 facing the restaurant it's the one to the right okay you purchased lot 61 and do you know what date that was uh I can't recall before or after the approval in 2003 it was before sir because I needed property in order for me to do the extension okay so I'm not understanding something I didn't have the the distance from building to building that's what I was told back then so I had to purchase that other building and was there a lot line adjustment then done yes yes because they wanted me oh okay you didn't say that okay they wanted me to combine the two building to one and I didn't want it so it's still one is under my name Andre cap and the other one is me and my my wife and trustee okay so all right keep on going because keep on going let him finish let him finish you ad okay so our request was for the generator I'm already seeing that this is going in a place where we're going to need to get more of a record so what we're suggesting is that let's let's continue from now I'm going to do an O request to get copies of any and all zoning permits building permits prior resolutions of approval and then we'll work with Mr Vella to whatever include on the Oprah list a lot line adjustment resolution or something like that right could I say something yeah when I had a fire back in 2016 2017 we had a meeting at the restaurant was the lawyer from the insurance the Fire Marshall Abraham a bunch of other people and they wanted the insurance lawyer wanted all permits pulled on my property and he and they were told the insurance was told that everything was gone so I'd like to know how they get now well he's going to open them and they're going to have to try to find him if they can't find them they're going to say they don't exist they can find them they say they will exist I have a feeling I know who's going to be going up in the attic to look I understand and I I know that make sure you wear a mask we have significant number of building permits and electrical permits that were issued as a result of that fire but I need to have that Oprah request done so we can get the full record so you want how much time do you need in other words if we said the next meeting I don't know if that gives you enough time I think we need to go it's okay hold up for another minute this might sound like a dumb question the reason they're here is because they need c variances they don't need need any amended site plan approval if after you do the Oprah and he gets back to you if you need amended site plan approval with C variances you're going to the planning board unless unless you're permitted use you guys can get rid of this thing if if he needs amended site plan approval unless there's outdoor dining Are You Gonna Keep the outdoor dining he say he's going to get rid of the gravel area no there's outdoor din outo we still have the there's a pat okay so then then then they might stay here okay okay all right so so what time how much time L assuming that you're coming back here I'm GNA be here probably any time any I understand but how much time do you need on this application so when you come back April April 4th or the next one after it would have to be either the 18th or you're gonna have to go for this April 18th is good April 18th y okay so let's make an announcement the hearing in this matter in this on this application is continued to April 18 there's no need for further notice but how are we on the time to decide Jeffrey can you checke 6 2024 ail May June so since we're kicking the hearing out a month let's kick the EXT exension out of month let's go to extension to July 31 yes yes we'll put on the record right now that we extended time period for the board to act to July 31st 2022 okay and then even though we put it on the record to send the letter in so Taylor can put it in a file it's easier to find that way okay okay now is there anything else that you would want to tell them so that when they come back on April 18th we not surprised with anything new you're in that oh that's think not now I mean this just going to have to be a review based on yeah I understand they're going to put an OP request you're going to give it out then you guys are going to talk and see where you think any relief is necessary etc etc just I just think I have a question for you and maybe that will help them the thing which caught my eye you got to go louder in that microphone was item four of your report is there anything you can help that need additional permits yeah that's what that's what they're going to have the meeting about to put an opal request that that directly responds to item four okay the only other thing I would say is do do you guys have a copy of the approved site plan from 2003 because Jeff has a copy of it here and it shows Landscaping at the rear of the property is that Landscaping still at the rear of the property tell you what Jeff take this give it to them right now Steve don't opener this because we're giving it to you now or you can't opener it and Jeff respond you have it but take show that to your client please that's what the place is supposed to look like after the 2013 site planine approval it's still there the Landscaping yeah the trees are still there not on the survey did you go to the property yeah but the survey shows so he's mching the survey up to that plan none of those trees are shown on no those trees are there sir you hear what I'm saying yeah no I understand talk to your survey he's got to go back out there and do another revision this guy's a clown four times he did [Music] this all right and then impervious coverage imperious coverage well Jeff's going to look at if they remove the stone then the impervious coverage is going to go down but Jeff's going to look at all those issues after they get the permits and they have their meeting right St just to take yes take the photos that show all that existing listen just I'm just providing yeah the eyes online yeah that could be from the Gard school he said that could be from the G school that's why he wants to see it on the survey okay okay okay a dumb question are we holding them to the 21-day submission or 10 if there's a revised survey or anything else put it this way for now let's hold on to the 21 Day if they need to ask for a waiver of that they know when the board's meeting and Steve's probably going to be here at a lot of those meetings on other applications then he could ask but let's Steve shoot to make the 21-day submission [Music] are you the attorney for the next one oh yeah here's the attorney for the next case that's why you're still sitting in the chair I'm waiting I'm being nice and waiting for you to get out I'm sorry he's not going all right uh calling the next application boa case number 062023500240 lot 35482 Highway 202 application for preliminary and final site plan approval with d variant for manager suite and two family use good evening councelor good evening Steven grenberg attorney in Flemington on behalf of the applicant MSP Hospitality LLC doing business as travel in and site you came t and garbled right at the end you know Taylor next time before we meet let's you and I test these out like it you can test them out all you want they need an upgrade yeah just saying no offense it's the people talking no it sounds like sounds like it's turned up too much because now it's Echo it's now yeah I mean I'm feel like I'm speaking Yeah in a loud enough voice right now it's good I don't know what you did CL I will sit up in this posture and I will we've been telling people to get close to the mic and now something's changed and now it's don't get close to the mic I know I that's why I had it like right here okay so anyway I represent the applicant who's essentially Mr Mahir Patel uh who has the travel in and Suites motel and you many of the board members are already familiar with this uh piece of property this is a a longstanding existing Motel business in the township that also has a restaurant use on it and the back building which in the past has been called a single family residence That was supposed to be used as for the manager of the property and that's what the prior resolutions of approval had said that that back building was going to be for the manager of the property Mr Patel um right now would like to have the a manager Suite in the front building where the lobby is right next to the lobby because that's the most secure location for a manager Suite as part of the motel um he filed for a zoning permit application which was denied by Mr Bella and when I initially appealed that because I thought a manager Suite is actually a an allowed accessory use in the motel what we learned was after I filed that application for an appeal was that the back building had previously been uh identified as a single family residence for the manager um which triggers relief which is why we're here um what the upshot of what we want to do on the site just so that you understand it because we're throwing throwing d1s and multiple uses principal uses essentially the the site would continue to work like it has in the past there's really there's no exterior changes whatsoever there's no changes other than the interior of the one Suite ex uh next to the uh the lobby of the building a yeah what is that room what's that room number just so we can I'll get that from Mr um but the back building that was called a single family residence it's right now and as far as we know for a long time it's not a single family residence there's no connection between the first floor and the second floor there's an exterior entrance for the second floor and there's an exterior entrance for the first floor they're not connected up and down and actually I was there today with Mr Bella to go over it and have him take a look at what it actually is and what it is right now is the first floor is being used by Mr Patel's parents who are in their 90s and they're staying in that um first floor living suite and the second floor is a motel unit it's actually leased on a mo not as an apartment but as a motel unit and what the intention is for that back Suite or the back area is for Mr Patel to be able to have his parents live there until they no longer need or can be there in that facility and then have that first and second floor be motel rooms and the manager Suite be in in a quick quick question the second floor of the building that's supposed to be the single family dwelling is that like a motel room which is a shortterm rental like the rest of the motels or is that a long-term rental it's it's a motel room shortterm short term and you're sure that that's not like a long term for months and I mean people may need to be there they may rent it on a longer basis but it's not an apartment where somebody's it's not like a year toe does it have cooking facilities up there it does so how is it not an apartment what makes it not an apartment it has its own bathroom its own cooking facilities and it's got its own own it's a room number and I'll let Mr pel I understand it's a room number I'm just trying legally if it has cooking facilities and it has a bathroom and it has a separate heating system and all that how is it not legally an apartment it's not on a month-to-month basis or a year-to-year basis it's on a it's rented just like the other motel rooms and motel rooms just because you have a motel room doesn't mean that under certain circumstances you can't have a kitchen facility in it but we can have Mr Patel talk about it I what I wanted to explain to the board is what the proposed use is no I understand but the way I'm notes the second that's the two it's of a one family it's now a two family because there's a you got people you know his parents that are living on the first floor using it as their residential unit and you have a second floor with cooking facilities that seems to fit the legal definition of an apartment so you can deal you guys can decide what whatever you want to call it you can call it but I would talk to your planner about whether or not she believes that under planning principles and under the ordinance the thing is actually an apartment but that'll be up to you I just wanted to raise the issue now and not pop it on you later i' would also like to add that there's multiple rooms in that SEC there's multiple rooms in the Second Story what do you mean multiple rooms multiple areas where there's living uh beds wait wait a minute wait a minute is it a two- bedroom yes yes okay so it's got multiple [Music] bedrooms listen it's it's three it's actually three stories with this but if they want to you're gonna have to get into this I'm just telling you there's an issue with that building it's not I know what you're presenting oh it's just a motel room but it doesn't sound like it's just a motel room you're going to have to address it at some point so let them keep on going but as these things come up we want to tell you about it and not bring it up at the end understand and and if it needs us to call it something else and still ask for the relief we'll do that I want to give the board the idea of what we're doing correct but do you want to you want to have the kitchen taken out of it so it's only a motel room or do you want to leave the kitchen in I want to explain what we're doing I understand figure it into whatever so you're going to you want to leave the kitchen in and you want to be able to use it as an apartment we'll get to B on that okay I can't all right keep on going all right that's about it I'd like to call I just confirm the jurisdiction of the board and get their Witnesses so again content a notice is satisfactory how about the uh certified it is satisfactory so in my opinion the board has procedural jurisdiction over the application why don't we get all the witnesses sworn how many witnesses do you have I have three Witnesses okay and we have the board has one witness so can we get all three people that are going to testify up to the front near that microphone so we can get everyone sworn in other than Jeff you can sit right where you are in front of your [Music] microphone Beth you gotta come up I gotta swear you in yeah got it can everyone raise the right hand and does everyone swear or affirm the testimony you're going to give in this matter will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes yes yes yes and then can you identify yourself starting with Beth first name last name spell the last name slowly relationship to the applicant or the board as the case may be Elizabeth mcmanis MCM a us from the planner representing the applicant okay next into the microphone hear Patel last name p a l owner managing member of the property okay can you please spell your first name m i h i r and you're the managing member of the LLC hey are you the manager of the the motel or someone someone else somebody else all right you'll be telling us about that next microphone Jonathan suaga I'm the applicant's engineer spell that last name last name is z u l u a g a and here your engineering expert Jeff Jeff aell Township planner board planning expert okay there if you would would you please give your qualifications to the board yeah absolutely I am a licensed so just to anyone testifying right angle yourself down that way to our board stenographer because not only will she be able to hear better but she's an unbelievable lip reader go ahead I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey I have a bachelor's in science in civil engineering from I have a bachelor in science in civil engineering from NGIT I have been accepted in multiple municipalities as an expert and provided testimony uh for SE engineering items so just give some idea of which municipalities have you testified in front of their boards and they've accepted you as an engineering expert city of Newark and B of East Newark city of Newark and I think he said burrow of East nework burrow of East nework correct I have been working as a civil engineer for the past seven years and designed multiple industrial commercial on residential projects anybody have any questions hearing none we accept thank you you would you please just Orient the board to uh the site and the buildings on the site and by the way when you anytime you put something up on the board just tell us is that one of the sheets in the package that's been submitted or is that not in the package that's been submitted so we have to mark it as an exhibit so what sheet do you have up on that board so right now we have have the aial map which was submitted as part of the C application so cut to the chase are anything that we're presenting tonight something that um let me pack up everything that we're presenting tonight on your plans have been submitted to the board correct that is correct thank you so if you could just identify what's uh being shown to the board right now yeah absolutely I would like to start my testing only by providing a brief description of the property just what what sheet number is that this is sheet number two great the IRL map U the zone of the the property is located in zone 02 which is business office uh block number is 4.04 lad 35 location of the property is 482 US Route 202 the area of the lot is 3.12 acres in terms of adjacent uses we have a self storage facility to the north to the south of of the property we have a building Rel uh religious building to the west of the property we have a auto repair shop and to the easte of the property we have residential units and Commercial uses Beyond at this time I would like to introduce another uh plan which I'm going to go over the pre-existing conditions and post-develop post-develop conditions yeah we're not introducing anything different oh yeah but but when he stepped back a little bit it was clearer so you step back I don't want to try again just just say something hello no step back step back a little better yes oh there we go don't move there we go that's that's the Sweet Spot there we go I'm no moving from here no I'm only kidding now what sheet are you looking at now this one is sheet number three plan access to property is through US Road 202 there are two driveways one is located to the Northwestern corner of the site the other one is located to the Northeast both of these driveway axes have adequate width for two-way traffic circulation there are multiple buildings on site we have building a b and c which is dedicated for the hotel use there's building D which is of restaurant use and building e which uh is the two family dwelling there is parking spaces and parking areas which service uh all the facilities on site the sub the subject parcel is currently developed no proposed side improvements um in terms of additional imperious coverage in terms of drainage and storm water the site generally is slopes north towards US Route 202 as well as uh port of the site is low West towards the South ran River tributory the applicant is proposing interior renovations to exist of BDA to accommodate a manager Suite other side improvements are limited to signage which is reserved for the manager Suite and the multif family uh dwelling the reserve parking for the manager Suite is in front of building a the reserve parking spaces for the multif family units are to to the east of the multif family dwelling uh at the corner those three parking spaces are reserved for uh this use could you point point out where those are absolutely can you step back a little so they can see here go ahead now Point par spaces we got one par spes here for the suite as well as this rep parking spaces on the U east side of the multi all them all those parking spaces will have U signage dedicated to it in terms of stor Water Management as I said before there's no additional inous coverage so the pre-developed uh Peak runoff will be sustained will be sustained in post development conditions at this time I would like to address some of the comments from the memorandum prepared by Mr Vella which are of civil engineering in nature let you ask let me ask you those questions and the ones that I think we need you to touch on the site plan note entry Steve interior renovation um what number you on number eight does that entry reflect the Second Story and not the first story that is correct so the renovation doesn't impede access to the facility no adquate uh access will be provided with the renovations going to number 10 uh can you provide testimony on the septic capacity for the manager suite and the structure in the back yep the uh set the capacity is adequate since no additional rooms are proposed in the hotel as well as the multif family uh dwelling so so so how many what do they what do you have from the ran Township Municipal Utilities Authority how many edu or how many units it's private this ah so have the you're saying you have enough capacity in that septic correct there are there are no changes in terms of number of units so the existing design that was previously approved is adequate for development conditions when they got the approval for the septic there weren't this many rooms that was a single family home so we need we're going to need you to figure out the capacity of the septic system and now how many total rooms do you have in the motel plus you you got two apartments you know in the two family home so I'm thinking you have at least one more unit than before and you might say you do the calculation yeah we have capacity but you you can't say oh we're not changing the number of rooms because from when you got the approval you are you're increasing the number of rooms by one so isn't it also a controlling Factor it isn't just the rooms because that would have a lower capacity it would have a lower capacity when you add a kitchen the the requirements and the gallons that's needed for the septic system increases right so that's just something you guys have to you know get the facts and figures on it and bring it back because that that answer is is not sufficient so per njac um 7 column 148 the hotel um use storage calculation is depending on U the amount of bedrooms the manager Suite is not adding any additional bedrooms to the hotel use correct we're talking about the two the two family home in the back is adding yeah they have their own septic correct yes so is that do you know the capacity of what was approved initially versus the use now it is my understanding that the same amount of rooms is not changing in proposed conditions when was the kitchen installed on the second floor because that's what I'm not talking about the motel number of I'm talking about the so the capacity of the septic for that building in the back yep so for for multif family dwellings U the capacity is calculated by the number of bedrooms uh it's 200 gallons um per day day for the first bedroom and 150 gallons per day for each additional one in total there are only four bedrooms two for each unit so it's it's been um he hasn't mean changeed so wait wait time out time out okay so it was approved as a single family house correct and so I understand that it doesn't look like that okay if it was approved as a single family house was it the capacity for bedrooms and thus the septic is okay or are we saying that this was proposed it was approved as a single family house never built as a single family house we don't know what the septic is and we don't know if it fits we're asking him that we don't know the answers that's that's what you're saying that's what we're saying that's the question that we're trying to ask okay so that's what it is so understand what it is now and it may have been built that way but are we we are you saying that the septic that they put in when this building was put in was the capacity was met we'll need to look at the records then okay I'm not 100% sure I cannot confirm if it was actually assigned for four uh BS okay thank you but what you're what you are saying is you say under D regs for a multifam building it's 200 g per day to be used for the first bedroom 150 gallons per day to be used for each additional bedroom so 150 * 3 is 450 plus the 200 what your testimony is that the capacity that would be needed for that multif family building would be 650 gallons per day is that actually I think it's to it's to in the microphone okay I I believe it's based on housing units so because there's two housing units the first one would to be two 200 gallons for the first bedroom and 150 for each so so it would be 350 per housing unit I believe but that's where the applicant will need to clarify that correct so it would be gallons for the boiling unit okay you said there was four right so two two bedrooms per unit so the calculations are one bedroom for each so 200 each 200 plus 200 plus 150 plus 150 equals 700 yeah correct okay let me just hold on I already wrote 700 no I didn't Steve I don't think you want to go for browny points right now okay now I'm calling up shot I'm trying okay okay and can you talk about the rsis standards for the two family and if variance is required can we talk about number 11 whether the rsis standards for the two family and whether variance is required yep in terms of uh njrs requirements for the multif family dwelling is 1.5 spaces per dwelling unit uh for two bedroom so in total you will be three parking spaces for the uh multif family dwelling and we are dedicating three uh Reserve parking for this use so no variances required for the multif family dwelling no any other variant is required we are uh in total I don't want to bore you with the numbers but uh in total the side requires 116 spaces and there are 105 in existing conditions so it's a non-conformance condition for parking if it's existing microphone you're saying if it's a non-conforming existing as it is right now adding another use and not meeting the the total amount of parking then require additional variance it's correct we would ask for that variance correct can someone doesn't matter to me who can someone tell me what is the parking requirement how many spaces do they have and what's the deviation do they need the variance to allow [Music] I understand the testimony was just that 116 is required and 105 are existing okay Jeff does that sound right to you yes so 116 minus 5 is 11 so it's a variance for a deviation of 11 spaces is that correct that's correct okay so I'm going to skip to number 13 because we did do the manager site and two family unit inspection today with Mr Vella um and I discussed with him number 12 whether he still required the floor plans for the two family units and I think you indicated that that was no longer necessary unless the board would think it's some sort of diagram unless the board want unless the board wants it Jeff says he's satisfied because he's seen it if you guys want it tell them they'll give you it if you're all right then they don't have to give it okay so let's go back um so this was approved for single family right right so was there plans and floor plans for the single family not that I could find up okay so what we have is what you've seen today is a two family I'm gonna say yes because if we go in the future with it I mean this is got to document something and I guess my concern would be is there different fire safety codes when something is approved as a a hotel versus or motel room slash apartment versus a residence I I don't know that and that's where I would think I can tell you I've been looking at definitions while this has been going on the definition of dwelling in the ran Township ordinance section 2963 the building or portion thereof designed or used primarily as the residence or sleeping sleeping place of one or more persons and the second sentence says a dwelling is not a hotel motel or similar structure under the terms of this chapter so it sure seems like even though at the time this board denied the interstate advertising application which was for a billboard on this property the board made a finding I think uh tayor handed out to all you guys tonight an exerpt from that resolution on page three the board found that there were two principal structures two principal uses on the property principally permitted motel and the restaurant because the board found the restaurant was second principal structure even though it was approved as accessory because it didn't meet the definition it wasn't in the motel but the board said there's a single family dwelling which was approved as an accessory building to has the manager of the motel so it's not a principal use on the property now it looks like that can no longer be said to be an accessory building it's not housing the manager it's not accessory it's a two family dwelling at the principal structure on the property now I don't know the answer to your question but they now that they've heard this I'm sure they'll be getting information and getting back to the board with that am I right yes and I think that's all I have so yeah so the chair said she'd like a what number the floor plan number 12 she wants a floor plan for the two family units anyone disagree with her no okay so they want to submit floor plans done by an architect well they already have an Architects can you get that same architect that did the uh in other words the architect did a plan for the um alteration for the manager Suite can you get that architect to do a floor plan for the two family dwelling you don't want an owner supplied sketch right you want fine sealed architect we can have that done okay great that's all I have for the end of any questions for these witness anyone in the public anyone on there are members online there are members online anyone online that would like to ask questions of this witness hearing none I think we're good would you like to take a break Mr G yes I thought so we'll come back in at 8:15 calling the meeting back to order so um the board asked the engineer some really good questions and you've asked for additional information and I think it's probably better for us to get you that additional information and and and have some clarity to the presentation before starting with additional Witnesses so that we can maybe be more efficient at the next meeting and and get you everything that you need I what I would request however is that if you have any other questions or concerns about this proposal now we haven't gotten into the nitty-gritty about Mr Patel's reasoning for here but if you have any general questions that we can answer in the meantime for the next meeting I that would include that would include professionals not just board members right no you guys can't ask the only only is any questions the only additional question I have is someone mentioned the third floor and I'm just asking for the floor plans to cover all floors what however many there are that's a good point good point that's all I have by the way is there a third floor can we get the engineer back up I don't want to tell you I mean Mr beella can is test there is a third floor but it's a you know it's a very small area two different building there's a closet hallway and a and a and a just explain this the first floor has two bedrooms is that correct the first no no the first floor has one yes the first floor does the first floor has two bedrooms has one no first floor has one bedroom and a living room second floor has two bedroom and the third floor has one bedroom the third floor has two rooms but not listen listen he's not he's not Jeff were you there today yeah I was there Testify the first floor had has two the second floor has it it was a living room it looks like a living room they're using it as a bedroom two beds and the third floor has one small bedroom okay just Ste did you Mr groom you hear what he said with his eyes first floor has two rooms one of them his bedroom one of them to use as a bedroom the second floor he says has two rooms both being used as a bedroom even though one could be a living room and he says the third floor has one bedroom that's his testimony he was there today if if if he's wrong you're going to bring someone to testify next time to clear it up but you might okay I you might want to take pictures we will of each of the Interiors of the room linday did you Lindsay did you have a question I was just going to ask if you could explain the new unit that we're talking about and why that would be so important in this aspect I know that we don't want to get she's not hearing you got to go loud I thought I was sorry you gota yell so I just wanted to get a better understanding of why we would be requesting this for the new unit in that front building just so that we can get a better understanding between between all of them I know that there's obviously things we need to address but you understand her question she wants to know why is it so important to have the manager unit in the front near the lobby when the original approval approved it to be in the single family home understood and I guess my question relates to permits and approvals um again my concern about that building e now housing the two two family when it was only ever approved at one and okay but let me let me weigh in on that you can't hold that when you're judging this case you can't say because the applicant started using it for a two family without approvals somehow we're not going to approve this application just information on when what approvals when okay now when and what what approvals were received what what what year was the single family home converted to a two family home and were there any approvals for that and if so could you please provide copies that's what you want to know yes to the extent we can provide that information we will you may have to do another Oprah request well yeah but that's why I said to the extent we can provide it depends upon what the Township's files say the other thing is I just want Clarity on how many units are there so you have a hotel you have a restaurant so what are we talking about three different things there yeah the way Jeff and I are seeing things at this point they the board of adjustment made a finding that that single family dwelling was there and it was an accessory building right that was based on testimony not that the owner made the owner I think attended one of the interstate hearings but he did not attend the hearings he consented to the application the board's fact finding was based on some witness from Interstate who said I believe their planner that he'd been out there was a single family dwelling looks like no that was a two family so it looks like instead of two principal uses out there it looks like there are three principal uses out there so it looks like Mr groenberg is going to probably amend the application to seek an additional D1 use variance for a third principal use on the property that's my guess but we'll have to he'll do his own evaluation that's the question yes not sure how he wants to handle Jeff you have questions I have questions on item number 15 if that can be addressed tonight yeah we'll we'll deal with the U shipping container in testimony to next meeting let's put it this way are you going to keep are you going to seek a D1 variance to keep that shipping container there or are you gonna is the applicant gonna I don't want to say the smart thing but is the applicant going to remove the shipping container no we we're going to seek that relief okay it was discussed at the interstate that yeah just so you know there was a representation made from Interstate the president of Interstate who said he spoke with the owner and that shipping container was going to be removed that's not in the resolution but you can look in the transcripts if you want I can send you all the transcripts now either the owner of Interstate was lying or the information given to him was not correct so I I was I was here when you were you guys were having a discussion at the end of that uh adoption of that resolution solution and I have a completely different relationship with this board than those people and I can only tell you what my client tells me so I will work directly with my client to tell to find out that information but as I don't know whether a representation was made by him in that regard I will certainly explore that I know that the representation made to the board was made by the president of Interstate okay and I can tell you that your client did not testify during the hearing at all and he only was there for one hearing session and it was a multi- hearing session application and he stayed home and for good reason he really had no part of it other than it being brought by the billboard turns out for good reason and they're different parties so you know he may be the owner of the of the property but he was not the applicant in that I understand understand and the we're also going to have questions about he's he is the owner of the property he doesn't manage the motel we're going to want to know who manages the motel in other words who is this person who this manager's Suite is intended for well I I can tell you that he is a manager of the hotel as an owner but there is an on-site manager who it will provide that testimony and the other question is why can't the on-site manager just why do you have to renovate a motel room why can't the onsite manager just be in one of the motel rooms that is one of the motel rooms right but it's right next to the lobby right it's going to have a kitchen in it correct it will yes it right so it will no longer just so you understand I you can check this out I believe in the township you cannot have a kitchen in a motel room you can as a manager speak it says that in the ordinance yes can you direct us to to that part of the ordinance the definition of a motel let me grab that for you this is section 296 D3 Motel No the def the definition of a motel yeah definition 2963 the definition of Motel is a series of attached dwelling units where each unit has convenient access to parking space for the use of the unit the unit's occupant the units with the exception of the managers or caretakers are designed to provide sleeping accommodations for automobile transients or overnight guests without the provision for cooking in any room or Suite A single family home on the motel property occupied by the owner manager is a permitted accessory use so the the question is going to again man manager Suite can have cooking facilities yeah but the man but according to this definition the manager supposed to be in that single in the single family home I disagree with that wasn't this part of the appeal okay what do you disagree with you're you're saying that under the definition you can have a manager's suite and you can have a single family home occupied by an owner manager has a permitted accessory use you can have both yeah okay yeah we disagree with that but okay Beth Mark that down in your notes okay anything else just so you understand we're looking at that as if you have a single family home on the on the motel property that's where the owner manager is permitted to be so that's where the kitchen facilities would be if you don't have a single family home then you can have a manager sweet with it that's just that's how we're looking at it maybe we're wrong Beth will weigh in on it Jeff will weigh in on it and you and I can weigh in on it and the other issue is though that uh I would argue that a manager Suite is customarily incidental to a motel and I think we'll provide testimony as to that the motel use let me let me just finish what I was saying yeah a manager Suite is customarily incidental to a motel use and is because your ordinance provides that those customarily incidental uses are accessory to the motel that that that would be another provision that we would allow this it the B3 Zone correct oh no O2 which is what zone is this O2 O2 give me the ordinance section for the O2 for permitted accessory uses section 296 d128 C and four so you're saying the general [Music] cell area and in right next to the lobby area as was which is customarily incidental to a motel use as opposed to having it in a single family structure in the back of a building so we're aband we're making it more conforming by abandoning that structure for a manager use and having the manager Suite you're right so if you're going to abandon the structure the single family home for a manager Suite then what use under the Ordinance do you have of that you could have two potentially two motel rooms if you but not motel rooms with kitchens well that's where B's going to come into her but okay because toy on this the [Music] next can you come up to the microphone and and say that she's very excited about this Beth mcmanis for the record I would love to provide some testimony on that at the next hearing and also provide some information and writing to the board in advance and perhaps coordinate with the Township's professionals to the extent necessary you got to say it again and you got to talk towards jasine you got to be louder I'm sorry I would love to provide some testimony about this topic at the next hearing and likely provide information in writing to the board prior to the hearing so that board members have an opportunity to review it and to the extent necessary coordinate with the townships or the board's Professionals in doing so I think that would be a very good idea I think this issue is getting a little out of hand as with the the legality of what the ordinance permits Etc and it seems that if we could uh Infuse some basic site information some basic information about how hotels are operated and then compare that to the zoning ordinance I think that's going to indicate what variances we need and I think provide some clarity to the board as to what we're requesting and I think why we're eligible for the [Music] variances more L microphone a planner review will be prepared for this applicate yes it seems that information on hotels generally and how this site Compares with the Township's ordinance is necessary because there are a lot of there are a variety of issues at hand and could you include maybe in a footnote the difference between a motel and a hotel I would love to thank you lorett did you have a question yeah I had one more um question I'd like to ask I noticed that the uh restaurant building is vacant and I was wondering if there's any um plans for that building from a a change of use perspective question or um if there would be an impact that would change the amount of parking or utilities she she's not hearing you I'm sorry I was curious if any future plans for the restaurant building um says the restaurant building is vacant or use because the building I understand is vacant my understanding is that the intention is for it to be a restaurant in the future but I'll confirm that and get that back to you that's the only use we're asking for now loud we do have a recent sign PL sign permit for Adam I believe for a restaurant so I think that was that was discussed about a month ago with the restaurant owner great anybody else have any questions you have anything anything more that you see that you'd want information on I guess photo C with the three meters if that could be yeah I think we discussed that today provide that testimony there's three meters on building e um yes is there electric meters or gas meters electric okay I assume it's one for each floor but you get back we'll provide that testimony to next meeting and then I know the answer but just for for uh the for the record there's a there's a solar powered pole more or less than in the right of way do you want me to I mean I I appreci appreciate you giving us the heads up we weren't going to proceed forward with any other testimony but I can tell you that Mr M Mr Patel will testify that the ren Township Police Department asked him to put that solar thing there in order to be able to take pictures of people's license plates and find Vehicles so as a good citizen he said okay and they put put it the township put that up there okay that's what the testimony will be okay he'll check that out I we talked about it today yeah anything else it's not ours we're not taking pictures of people's license plates okay I think we're okay so how much time do you need on this thing in other words well I'll just tell you I don't have any openings until May 16th what do you have scheduled for March 19th March I'm sorry I'm sorry oh wait wait wait April 18th gonna be here no no no I understand I have other applications am I on them too yeah I can say Steve are you on them yeah no our next meeting is March 19 correct 21st 21st right St my watch I Didn't reset it after February 100 in storage yeah that's in storage I need to do 100 in storage Y and we need more time than two weeks okay so April 4th I mean not to be on the record but I had emailed you about a different application to be on you didn't give me any confirmation so it's up to you which the other one 2077 and Countryside oh you didn't you sent that to Chris you were on it yeah but I I was copying on it we won um the other one um country side two no the other one be for so 207 207 then that's we were planning on that being the only one yeah that's if you wanted that one done so it was kind of a jugle for application you'd like and Steve they're meeting they're meeting twice a month it's unreasonable to ask them to meet three times a month okay we not um now let's okay now when is the time to decide this application up July 17 so the first the hearing on this on this application is going to be continued with no further notice to what date are we saying May May 16th May 16th and the time to decide expires in July June July let's April May two months so let's kick this one out to September 30th we do August 31st no no no no if you're you're getting three months past the yeah just you never know climate change weather could have an earthquake you know I'm going to give it the any but September 30th September 30th okay we good okay and send the letter in on that one also even though you did it on the record yes okay all right okay thank you all very much have a good evening have a good have a good evening we'll see you next any other business for the before the board hearing none can I get an adjournment so move all in favor I anyone opposed okay good night