e e off of mute and then turn on the camera huh Michael col's coming or R oh okay so he's at the church Hall we have none of our members Michael who I know [Laughter] him just wait for Michael he was taking out he taking out the recycle stuff for the church we get anything important anyway right at the beginning okay sure everybody with so do the the roll call first uh I was going to Michael so Mark doer here John Sasso presid John passon here norbo here Rini here and Michael Colman's not here as yet okay so I'll entertain a motion to accept the minutes from the January and February joint meeting as Michael Colman is now here a motion to accept the in the minutes here for anyone who in as well as the agenda this copy as well as that like the survey there anybody need any of this your motion to approve the minutes you do I have a second okay distance correction fation seeing none all in favor I show of hands that's we see okay anim do that now everybody's here yes not yeah all our members are here so we can a little bit easier all right this next item on the agenda is continued discussion on conceptual designs for a new senior community center with dedicated space for 60 plus population now I I think that was worded did that come from from you John that that well and I think the real well the piece that I think I added in was the um so section criteria which I think we have okay yeah now that we have um I think this was really just intended to be kind of an update on to the rest of the group of what what's been going on over the last few weeks um Qui quick review of the the last meeting uh that happened last Saturday can't even remember anymore no two two weeks ago weeks ago um and um I believe the the update I think um Rachel provided the updated presentation um for the different sites yes so when I sent out the email last week I put the link in um everything's on the recal website right now there's just a couple of the formal meeting minutes from the meetings that aren't on but all the presentations are up there right now so there's been three Community forums um one was virtual one was at the coffee hour COA coffee hour and then the other one was um the first Saturday in March I believe it was the 2nd of March and they were all very well attended um I think some of the feedback that I gave to BH plusa and a few other folks did was just the fact that there wasn't um a wide variety of Ages that attended the meeting so we're hoping that in the next public um information center we could information forums we can get more um of a wide range of people participating since everyone in the Community is going to be voting for uh for this so um that was one of the takeaways there as well as the gymnasium that seemed to be a hot button item um in the conversation folks didn't really see the conceptual um idea of the gym and so there was a large discussion about that and just it turned into a good conversation and a conversation where folks were like oh well you could have um a big dinner there for 200 people you could have a bigger dance dance you could have a stage that um the Delina theater folks can come in and give a nice presentation at you could play pickle ball um you could have pickup basketball so there's um a wide variety of uses for the gymnasium and I think once that conversation opened up it was a good one and a productive one but certainly I'm still there I'm sure there's still some people that feel that they don't want a gym right that's okay too so just general feedback would be great I think what everyone thinks about what they saw and what they heard one thing that I thought was interesting um we had done the straw poll at you know the one previous to that and the one after that and in the uh previous straw poll absolutely nobody voted for the one on the o Oakland Road on this one about 12 or 13 people voted for Oakland Road and I think the big difference was during the question and answer session nothing was said about Oakland Road but in the first one where where nobody voted for it everybody started talking about the ledge and the neighbors and and this and that so it's you're just going to get a a wide variety depending on on who says what about what opinions go joint meeting nobody spoke on how nobody raised their hand for Simon's way that's right right so was that different in these other meetings yeah was okay yeah I don't think the straw PO is I I think Rachel had even mentioned this that the star pole results weren't necessarily reflective of like a real cross because it was somewhat meeting dependent it was some you know so I I think it was interesting to ask the question but I'm not necessarily sure it really gave any you know Dependable value I guess I would say uh I was surprised to hear how many people wanted to stay lesen Street yes I know and I have a question I haven't they were sitting in the room at the time when yeah I looked at the latest stuff from Rachel did she show elevations of like the the gym at Pleasant Street oh she talked about the gym height yeah she she showed she showed in I almost I think it was in the initial presentation she had and and just to be clear and and everything that she's shown regarding building has been like block diagram stuff so there's no like architectural you know perspective but with respect to Pleasant Street there was an image that showed literally the a block on the corner of of the gym like right up against a buddying the neighbor's house and it was like flat straight back and it showed you know sight line Heights height wise um good luck getting that P there was a there was a there was a question initially about should she continue to show the gym version in Pleasant Street and simply for comparative purposes Apples to Apples she wanted to keep that in there um but I I I I think if you pressed her she would probably say it's a really a tough tough site to to think about putting that on there um and I think it's a tough sell given those constraints of that site but um she did put it on there and um that's what that that's the only picture I remember seeing I think it may have actually been in the last presentation as well hidden in one of the backup slides so I'll go back it's okay yeah the weather I don't know if I can speak at these but sure um we asked her to put it back on there for um comparison purposes y so it was taken off in the previous and and we asked her to put it back on for the March 2nd and ongo and she did so when are they well I know they have a timeline and everything but when did they and so they I know they can't select a site until it done you know solid architectural things and cost analysis and that sort of thing but is that design with all of them having a gym is that so gonna be the that's what they're gonna base things on or so let me if I may just to take a step back we do need I think it would be well worth a discussion to let everybody know and reiterate what the what the expectation of timeline and decision points I think that would be helpful for this group to to just because I'm I don't think everybody May necessarily have been at this all of the ones and what the things so we should spend a few minutes on that um but to answer your question I'm not entirely sure um I think you know one of the next steps will be to do comparisons from pite criteria and I think to to nany's point having common things to look at at least gives you that that perspective um I mean my vision my my vision my perspective is that um whatever we end up assessing there's going to be give and take about what each site's going to be capable of of doing and what the what what ultimately will go there I mean I think there'll be a decision point about a particular site and then you know based on a whole bunch of criteria and then the the back and forth will have to happen about the actual design and what really can fit there appropriately and how it's going to look and what all these other pieces are and obviously the way cost is going to figure into it so I I I mean that's a wishy-washy answer but I think that's really what's going to happen um at least at least if if I had a crystal ball I would say that's the the way the process will work okay um I I I would like to make sure though that and not just me but I think given the number of meetings that have happened and and the presentations that have happened recently that at least everybody has you know has a good conceptual view of what each of these sites really represent and kind of a little bit of the trade-offs that exist today and and at least from a I do want to make one point at least from a building perspective because Rachel was clear about this that the buildings actually on both the Simmons way and the Oakland Road site are effectively the same in fact she reiterated she said they've kind of made them almost exactly the same in the this latest um revision and really the difference between those two and the Pleasant Street really is based on constraints of site and how much space they can actually move there could be some massaging within that confine but you know the the the totals you're going to get there are in fact going to be smaller just simply because of the constraints of the site um it would seem to me Simon's way you you you could build you could build a a anything there there's enough room well and you could also have have plenty of Outdoors well so clearly the the both Oakland Road and Simon Way offer a bit more outdoor options um than Pleasant Street there's very limited space on that site but I mean you know you get the Terrace out in the corner and that's about it probably but it seems to me that that Simon's way is huge compared to Oakland it's not I'd have to look at the square footage it's it's different pieces in different right so the the parcel that they're discussing now would be utilized reasonably well with parking in in the buildings that they're talking about that's not talking about the parking lot that's behind the rink right now at all leaving that alone and really touching any of the existing spaces so could you reconfigure it conceivably you could but what they did is they took the part right at the start of Range Road so if you drive down you turn right off the havil street the Ring's right in front of you they took the spot kind of here off to the right I've been down there several times I know what you me yeah so that's that's what they're referring to right now is the aace they did ask us if we wanted to look behind the parking lot or at the parking lot is another option um and we kind of said why don't you why don't you stay where you are at the moment I suspect if you overlaid those you're it's not those because it is deceiving because of the way Oakland Road is on the corner um I I suspect that the especially if you look at where the buildings laid out and you assume they're basically the same I mean the core space is actually not that different I would suspect when you actually look at it s might be a little bit bigger but it's um first of all it's well you have other constraints right you're you're bordering wetlands in a big way mhm and um there's a they decided that the buildable space I think is 2.1 acres for some reason that number is sticking in my head 27 okay 27 but it's I think it's it's chunk the bigger chunk that they're talking about there's another one over here is conceivably behind the parking lot although that is leased out to the ring Ice Arena currently so that would require a change in lease or something um and then there was even discussion of moving the ball field um potentially if that made sense but that I think is bigger than what we're talking about for a for a senator I think that's more a discussion of how do you utilize all of Simon's way right that's how you'd probably have that discussion do do we know has anybody asked the question if Pleasant Street Building can actually be altered right historically to look into that right I think that's that if that's a nonstarter why we even considering so typically you I don't I don't know so you need approvals and certain things have to stay yeah and and um I'm not remembering what they are exactly I don't if you remember but there are certain things that have to stay period right but the notion of doing things can happen with approval okay approval is not guaranteed okay but it's possible to do there's not something that says you can't touch it yes it's the exterior building you can the inside of the building but you can't touch the exterior problem is you change it so that you have the gym and the parking lot that's going to DW the actual historic part that's my point if you add stuff to the outside of the building is that that loud because now it's not a historical site anymore building maybe but the building's going to be consumed by this large structure around it it's probably worth exploring further is the quick answer for that yeah but I think it should be done ahead of time so we don't waste time on that and we get that maybe it's two sites that we start looking at versus the third site because there was somebody raised the issue at that first joint meeting the COA and recel about I thought we can't touch the wall we can't have some something that's actually on the on the wall but but then I'm thinking the library that was that's a historic building and they that does so yeah I think at the high level it's do at the specific level have to do some stuff and obviously historic commission has to be who does that what do we do we go ask so Rachel and Matt did meet with someone on the historical commission so they can give a little bit more background on it so the initial conversation was that um it was a positive conversation okay the initial conversation I don't know how far it got um but I can ask Matt for more information on positive as go ahead possibility yes that it is a possibility yes I mean if you look at the way that site presentation is the core of the building structure has been kept yes I suspect that was intentional yeah sure yeah you probably based for on that particular issue yeah BH plusa one of the reasons why um we hired them is because they have this vast experience including working with hisorical buildings that's good do we have any other discussions on the sites as they are themselves before we move on to the next agenda or also share my screen from the last recent [Music] um presentation so you guys can look at the sites that's helpful so this is the Oakland Road Site the Pleasant Street site and the Simon Way site and as um Mark stated there was also a little bit of movement on this particular location which I partic particularly liked but I don't know how everyone else would feel about it but she just simply shift did um the building right here place it facing this way and then the parking lot became here so that way if you're um in a recreational place um you're playing pickle ball you can easily access the pickleball courts from the parking lot and still get to the building so she just switched that last week and I thought that was pretty a pretty good idea I don't know how everyone feels about that change I think her comment at the time was the reason she put the site the way it was there but she was questioning the the road um right yeah but then she did to your point she did say that she felt the switch to put the parking lot basically between the building and the other outdoor activities felt like a better uh approach on the site um but that's still left the question of whether or not you know there'd be other issues with the road that they'd have to contend with yep did that get resolved about the road you that's my knowledge whether it's a private road or or whatever I don't know it may be a private way feeling it is um the town owns still land on both sides that's yeah yeah exactly it's a private way except that you own it all uh around it I think and um it's too narrow I mean to do any kind of development on that site requires a lot of change in infrastructure the roadway all the utilities all that stuff have to change pretty dramatically unless you made that road a oneway road that maybe a public way and you could do a circle yeah go in one way and out the other something like that that's actually moving the building closer makes the utility question easier right right because now you don't have the additional run in you know under the parking lot or whatever so if you move it closer you make it a little easier but you might to your point you know gain some infrastructure issues with the road but half dozen at one six of another think you're you're stuck either way Chris you have your hand up oh sorry Chris I I do can you guys hear me yes um I don't I know um Rachel had switched um Simon's way I don't know I haven't heard anything because Range Road is private um and had widened that road in the new model and I hadn't heard anything on that and also she had tweaked um Oakland Road um a little bit too she changed where the driveway went in and where the pickle ball courts were um so I just wanted to remind everyone of that yep yeah so on [Music] Oakland I just like yeah this this got adjust this got adjusted um she moved the entrance way uh across from the um the entrance to the um parking lot for the for the pack so that it was um you know more better sight line for coming in and out um but I think the pickle go courts stayed kind of they actually moved down a little bit I think maybe yes further away from the neighbors yeah weren't they originally on the other side yes they originally on the other side but then they move yeah yeah I'm not so that that that's at the say I'm not I'm not convinced that that's far enough away from we'd have to do some treatment if we ever did that yeah and I guess treat outdoor the pickall ports could be let's say at Simons and the center could be here I me yeah you might want to have pick a ball courts near the senior center and you would have to put up some sound fencing along there that's you know the at the back of that property line you would have to put up a yeah wherever we go basically we have to talk to all the Neighbors anyway and and yeah listen and see what what their concerns are and they won't want pick up all courts there so I'm just saying yeah well you have the most experience with that's why I said you know at least at least you could have salmon way because you got a rifle range you can deal with there's also some Courts at the high school um not far from Oakland Road just on the other side of the high school so yeah the keep that in mind yeah they don't use yeah they'll go away in Birch Meadow phase to um and just to Mark's point to about the neighbors I did let him know and I think maybe John zasso but we did send um letters to all the abutters um at Pleasant Street at Simon's way at Oakland Road so to just engage them told them about the upom community forums told them where to get the information told them to contact me if they had any questions so they have been notified and we'll probably notify them again um when the next public meeting yeah we did have one person reach out he gave me a um gave me a call and then I invited Ed him to one of the forums and he came and he participated and he spoke he's um an a butter by the Pleasant Street location and really he was you know GNA be a senior soon and he really liked the fact that he could walk to the center at Pleasant Street so he was in favor of that location but but yeah was good conversation and we heard from one of the neighbors um up the hill by the water tower up Road oh great do you remember what they what feedback they gave uh just concerned about doing anything in that space that's what Ben Nicholls said years ago that site could never be um built on Ben Nichols was a pretty sharp guy really good site it's a tough site it has a lot of challenges in the site itself but then it also has challenges because of its proximity to the schools and everything else so I mean NE none of these sites as we know are perfect um I think that's the challenge that we're going to have to face there true and I mean I I like the idea you know we to think about these you know we've been thinking about them as individual sites but I think our chter is to think about this as services to the community and how we meet all of that appropriately and what pieces really make sense to do because you I I think we're going to get some other constraints particularly Financial that you know assess how much of this we're going to be able to do and wear and so I think the biggest question is banging for the buck oh whatever we do whatever I chter is it seniors first if I remember how it was written y absolutely NE so do we want to move on to else have anything it's if it's okay though just because before we jump into it I know people ask asked about um process and where we're heading can we maybe take a minute to go through that first so we're not just jumping into this is why are we doing this this sure uh process mean as far as no overall overall the the whole project kind of you want to tag team this a little bit yeah go ahead you can start um so we had hoped that there could be some kind of an update to town meeting that could go into the warrant that has to be done in a week it's going to happen we just found out that the deadline is the 20 something of March to get that done um so that's that's tight um to have something that at least shows the spaces I think is very doable and what's under consideration that way um so maybe even start looking at some evaluation criteria maybe that's possible too we heard from BH plusa that by the end of the month am I right they're going cost estimates first cost estimates 20 we 21st okay that 21st the 21st and then the following week would be a presentation to recapin COA y so she said she said she would have the cost but she wouldn't release them until they had gone over it right right so so the notion I think of including much of that information into the warrant pwn meeting is probably a bad idea probably not possible so I think that's that's done you definitely wouldn't want to have the cost if it was going to be more of an April thing man um one potential idea would be to ask the town moderator if it's possible to put up some tables outside a town meeting and show what these look like show show the the drawings just so people can see what it is um and then the warrant there'd be a little bit of information on it as well and if they had questions obviously tell ask questions at that point also um then the question starts to become okay then once um and that's where I think it gets more exciting we need to find a way to focus um all of that discussion think about the tradeoffs and then I think get together as as us as recal together with the council together with whoever else we feel needs to be engaged at that point to make a recommendation to the select Board of the the option to that's preferred by the group and then to let the select bang that around and see do they agree do they have questions I'm sure questions um but we're kind of what happens then assuming that there is some Unity on that then we have to talk about how to take it to the community which would be first a town meeting for approval and then second to the voters for an election so this town meeting the end of April that will go then the next one is in November it may make sense to offer to have a special town meeting to call for a special town meeting once this was all organized and maybe that's September is something like that plus or minus who knows um to have it there it has to pass that and then I think it's 60 something days after that to have an election I don't think we can make the November regular election I think it would have to be a special election in somewhat the same time frame although a little bit later is going to be the school project um but I think one of the things that's really important is to make sure every everybody knows everything that's coming down the pike and knows what it is and why and how and kind of figures their stuff out um and I think our goal is there are two core projects that this community needs to invest in I don't think that this um I don't think it's been discussed to try to put them together I don't think it makes sense to put them together um because of the reimbursement structures and a bunch of other reasons but the voters and town meeting need to understand you know here's here's a project that's a senior cat here a project that's scho and plus or minus a year same time frame so how do I do John yeah no no no that's good I was going to add just a couple quick things one um relative to just more detailed on the process side um I think the the leadup to the recommendation is a is this next Runway that we have to you know starting with criteria and meetings with group with with with COA with staff with dkal with getting some more feedback from the community um we really need to figure out how we get to that point how do we get to the recommendation and to Mark's point I don't necessarily well I'm me take that back so town meeting is effectively what the last week in April or yes so we were thinking about May 7th if I remember correctly as the board of Selectmen meeting where we would present our recommendation I don't think that's that's okay well somewhere in the early somewhere in the May time frame we were thinking Board of selectman presentation and so that does mean that prior to that we're going to have to have some Cog and AR arguments put together and some backup and and that's probably going to be right around town meeting time I would expect so leading up to that effort is all the things we've been talking about now is to take the collective information and try to come up with a way and and so what what bhna presented um at the last uh meeting we had with them was a was a proposal for how they would assess criteria it was an example it wasn't a supp's be clear it was just an example it was not a this is the this is the end all it was this is how we could do it and tried to uh address not just the P rankings but also a little bit of wa weightings as well um and I thought that they did a reasonable job kind of integrating that and I think it's worth at least sharing that with folks so they can understand what this then could refer could turn into and actually um their recommendation even though I think there 30 some odd um pieces on this um that recommendation if I remember correctly was to really kind of narrow it down to about a dozen or so um concatenated um um criteria so that um you know we weren't trying to sit there and nitty-gritty you know pick something out but have a better how each of those things would would interplay with one another and I think I thought that was a better as much as you know I'm the engineer and like to see the details I I think you know from the communication perspective I think it I think it was a good a good approach that they advocated for so um and one more thing so we need to develop our own process for how to take this forward and get it done the the school building process is very formal and it has um Gates of approval and it has people who look over it and all that is they just set it all up right yeah yeah so so boom boom boom we don't have that so we need to kind of figure it out ourselves clearly the um the permanent building committee needs to get engaged ASAP and what we're talking about here at least to see what we're thinking about maybe they'll have input on the three sites and then once we form a building committee which will be a requirement for any project over I think $2 million is that the permanent building committee is essentially the the agency that's going to run it for the town what the schools have done is they created a committee that is all the permanent building committee members and then there's like a member of the the select board a member or two of the school committee and maybe one or to others but that's that's the the building let's get it done we need to do that we also need to figure out what's our process to to kind of get this going and then I think the more helpful we can be to the select board with here's how it should go and obviously get the guidance from the SEL board I think that's the most helpful way to get it done and I think getting to town meeting even you know just seeing it in the warrant and seeing you know it's in discussion y yada I think that's really really helpful it's really important so so just to Circle back on that last thing about Tom meeting because really because of the time frame where're we're kind of scrunched yeah um I I I would recommend that we just you know take what we have today and kind of package it up and summarize it and say Here's what we've done here's what the nhna has done here's here's the basic process and timel I mean I think that's really all we're going to be able to do and and you know maybe it's a couple slots slides maybe it's a a paragraph or two that goes with it but um I I would I would not try at this point to to flush every little piece of that out for town meeting because I don't think it's going to be you know I I I think we're not going to have enough in knowledge over the next week or less to uh make that happen and I don't think to meeting is necessarily gonna other than seeing that it's there and maybe maybe if we did have the ability to put some stuff out you know at at the meeting in the hall that would actually be is that that's even more valuable I I don't know it's an interesting idea I think we can approach the town moderator yeah so what would we have then would be some of the slides from bhna slides you could do the fullsize uh drawings rather than trying to see it on the screen um what's whatever's going to go into the warrant is on an 8 and half by 11 sheet you know per so I think seeing the real the real stuff is interesting uh it' be a chance potentially to have people at the tables so that they could collect feedback meeting members or questions they have maybe that's a a way to do that maybe the other thing we could add is just the notion of additional public input sessions and a little bit on the timeline if we can just to make people understand that it's right can we take the bhna timeline as far as their side of it and then have the overlay what we talking about the overall process will we be able to spell that out so I don't know if this is the latest and greatest but we could take something like this and simplify it pretty grammatically in terms of what's going on but just to show people you know most important might be the you know the month here's what's going to happen this month this month this mon that make sense questions yeah um the council and aing has really been working to um to get community um knowledge out there to get knowledge of this out to the community and one of the things that we will be hosting in April off the top of my head of course I can't remember the dates is we have um two open houses scheduled for April to happen at the bling Street Center April 11 April 11th is one and the other one is the Saturday I thought it was May 15th was the next one no I think it's April 27th that's a Saturday I didn't write that one down I guess yeah 15 no there were two in April one in May and um so uh just so people know so and it's around you know it's in April when the town meeting is there we're going to do Outreach to all the town meeting members as well as all of the um uh State uh not the state the uh Town committees that like the finance committee and uh the building committee and for them to be able to come in to Pleasant Street Center and get a tour and we'll have it set up with posters and um each room will have a tour guide to be able answer questions so that's one of the things that we'll be doing around town meetings I think it' be good also to have whatever we have for town meeting maybe if we could have something at the library because if you're talking about people of all ages and everything else that's the one place in town where people are going to be flowing through so that might be a good place we might be able to take some of the um visuals that we put together for the tour yeah and move them um up to the library what's the purpose of the meeting having those Community meetings just talk about what's what's the purpose it's to provide town meeting members with an opportunity if they've never been to the Pleasant Street Center so that they can see what it looks like we'll be playing the video that we made there and they'll have an opportunity to talk with people that um go to the center and uh learn what the pros are but also what the cons thank you so so is it specifically targeted to this particular issue or is it more or is it also just an open house for people to come down and learn more about targeted to this issue okay of the need for a new Senior Center renovated Senior Center so that's that's our underlying purpose then it's a great idea because a lot of people who may be against the senior center have never been there have no idea when the library when they were trying to get money's you know support for an override the visuals they had I think were very helpful because people don't see the you know the the like the ha system leaks in the roof and all that kind of thing people they don't know about it they just they got these nice friendly people there at the library they don't know about the facility yeah so so we have some idea of the overall process but we we don't know who's doing what all right for let's say the to meeting and are we going to be able to have something going out by next week we we we we have a due date of March 19 Matt say Matt mat 21st was it 21st we have to submit whatever it is we're going to write up has to be into Matt for the 21st and that goes in a warrant which is well that'll get yeah it's got to go in the warrant it's got to be reviewed and then it's going to go for printing yeah so that's and then at the actual meeting is there any discussion or talk or slides no so um so the moderator has changed the policy on that reports are in the warrant at the at the moment and that's unless unless the item is actually up on a a warrant item it's just a report first so so maybe one of the things we could do is um have this group assign a person or two to take responsibility for building whatever is going to go into the warrant I know it's slightly below but it's kind related to what we talking about maybe that gets that done and I think John spot on I think we we we have basically what we have at this point which is great stuff but that's what we work with yeah we I we have plenty of M so well take a step back I think we have plenty of material to draw from um but I don't think we should I mean we do have to add a little bit of Dimension to process and time frame because I think that's an important piece but other than that um I wouldn't I wouldn't use the word I wouldn't stress over what else we're going to put in the Warr because it's not we don't have any time okay but I suggest we have somebody from recal and somebody from the COA work to to put that together that make sense I mean I wa to do that actually I have kind of a draft of what you're talking about that I'd be happy to share um that I put together for some of the community forms um I'd be happy to share that with um you know from whoever here might be interested but it basically is summary of everything that's happened today how how big is it how long or how big is it is it one page or is it a lot of page three quars of a page oh great and maybe we can take a bunch of the BH with material that already exists and certainly the drawings in there later I was thinking a couple of the slides and a cover page letter would be probably all we really could do at the moment and I think that would be and and slides are okay we've there have been slid stuff gone in for reports in the past so slides are easier to read than yeah letter yeah to your point too I think you mentioned something about maybe a front of the building rendering as opposed to an aerial view do you think that would be more beneficial too if Rachel could throw something together like that my only hesitation is that the presentation material thus far really hasn't given us any what I would call architectural drawings all kind of blocks and I I I actually think in this case the the the drawings that you were showing for example are much more relevant at this point yes a little more eye-catching when you see the well yeah but yeah yeah but it gives people it would give folks an idea of you know what sort of you know ideas we are considering and have to caveat the heck out of it but but I think that's I think that's would be something people would want to see and I think the approximate timeline that follows oh yes yeah with a Time Yeah Yeah with a timeline I almost like to show what other communities have and recently built as a comparison yeah I think I think that's the longer term thing yeah no but I think that's important but right for the town meeting and one week so we at Nancy who's willing to volunteer on on the we out side put a little bit of time into it little tight at the moment for if how much do how much do you have you have a page I have a page I'd be happy to share it with everybody no no no I I I understand no no that's that's fine I'm just trying to think how much time I have between now and I'm actually traveling I'm leaving on Wednesday next week can you and I tag team that's fine on three of us that's right I'm going I'm I'm not promising I'm not good at this but we um we just we have to I think we can pick how many are we seven yes we I can get involved if I have to as well to Mark I can participate yeah I think we got to keep it to one or two okay I'm happy to I mean I really I really think four slides and and a paragraph I agree kind ofal I think less is more as long as it's doing the right I think I think you need to and if you could put actually you this has to be shrunk you could put all you could put all three of the sites on one slide if you had to oh yeah right I actually recomend not no no I did one um or four diagrams because the diagram that you showed doesn't have the gym at Pleasant Street so you need to also include the guy the picture with the gym at Pleasant Street I think that was the last one that was presented no no no no last year on on Saturday oh it could yes no no she I wouldn't do both with or without because you know let's make them all the the one that the one that um Rachel presented on Saturday which had the all the updated slide presentations that's the one that we should use and there were three the three sites the one in Pleasant Street did include the gym she included both in that presentation that may be true may be true but well talk I think it's better to just do this that summary page timeline page right and and the three Di rooms yeah and a couple of the the slides that we were talking about from BH plusa yeah oh that's yeah yeah the initial slides there yeah why we're doing this yeah I think that'd be great and I think that this timeline piece is a really important one um just thinking about again you know not not their specific Milestones but more she had she she had a sum that and I think we got to take it out to um November we we need like a a one and a half year timeline slide you know starting at the beginning of the end of last year going through you know April of 2025 didn't she she have a timeline this is one I side but it's over like 10 years it's oh right there right we need we need something a little bit more we need something between that than that yeah right just focus on the next on the next year or whatever because that's what people want to see I think and we don't we we could say like May select board you know that sort of thing yeah part of the part of the I don't have it but I I seem to remember a timeline of their prods yes so we oh it was just popping up there it is look at that pops right up for me it knows me I think they're on three on AOL I think it's like yeah I was gonna say thought it was like around 40 slides how quickly we get spoiled the begin no that was at the beginning or the end I see something was it was it there I thought it might have been there yeah wa is that you go back up two more it has I think it tells us what the great right there so recal timeline that's way yeah there it is yeah one you guys are thinking of yeah yeah so that's a little much can you go to the next one maybe the next one is what we want so we basically need to do a 2024 202 yeah slide you want me keep going is it one more or is that it that's the one I was thinking about well you go to the next um to the to the bhna one that that Mark keeps putting up next the next slide keep going right there oh yeah is there one more yeah there is I think no I C two s no worries so t i I think I can um put together a summary of this and that with the timeline that we're talking about that would suggest a May time frame for a recommendation to the board um and then a special town meeting in September so that assumes the schematic design phase over the summer effectively right so yeah so June July August September September yeah it's gonna be October it's GNA be tight y okay so that's October November yeah the reason why I would say have it separate from the regular November town meeting because we're going to have the MB communities at that time and I'm thinking that's going to take a lot of time maybe not I think it will yeah okay the U schematic yeah well that means vote is probably December December J best the challenge of pushing it off the challenge with trying to do it early is that and I know Nancy has said this in the past it's the give the community the time to digest it and communicate it and really you know Garner the support um I think if you try to push it too early into town meeting you're gonna run into trouble but oh sorry I thought you were talking about to the voters but you're saying to town meeting as well I'm saying town meeting as well yeah so you I mean you on town meeting yeah Su on town meeting I don't know I could be wrong people just show up on town meeting and vote so why we just say town meeting instead a special town meeting for the moment um and we assess if November is doable and then to voters that puts it I think into early next year y yeah cuz cuz CU I don't think in any case you're going to hit the November election I think here oh no that's that's so I think I think at that point it really doesn't matter no because you're you're you're you're in a special election at that point yeah almost a year from now exactly we should just touch face with the schools to see what their timeline looks like just so that no one's suppressed okay so we we good on if you want I'll take a shot at this page okay has a summary and are you gonna I'll take some additional slides okay so we should probably one person who owns Gathering it and getting it to by the 21st Nancy what what format is is just a word document or it's a Word document I I'm I'm looking for them right now I I could just send them and you all could take a look at them and um but it does kind of highlight the process not any it might be in two narrative form so you would have to cool so once again though who's going to be the I'll take I'll take option okay the present all right thanks sounds good all right then we have the site criteria I don't know what we're supposed to be doing with these I know I I certainly didn't have time to look at them do you today do you have the um spread sheets that um they presented on um yep so I have the this is the most updated one that Joel sent on Tuesday with the updated site criteria okay does that have tabs on the Sho it it doesn't allow I PDF it so I could just easily scroll down so I think what the goal is I think Mark said it or maybe you is to take these 36 and narrow them down to the 12 as a group maybe not like necessarily go over them in ranking right now but narrow down the criteria and then bring it back to BH plusa Hough I certainly wouldn't be ready to do that tonight yeah I mean some of them are kind of like straightforward thought it wasn't just T it was a matter of comping well so let let me make sure I understand this because I've got the spreadsheet that that you sent out that I came from him as well so I understood this to be this so the top of this spreadsheet that has 30 some odd criteria was uh what he's called the equal weight analysis and so what he had said for this was well what we could do is we can take all of these criteria and we can add whatever we want to it and then we can basically just try to do an assessment of each site against these individual criteria not weighted just purely numeric 0 one2 or one two through whatever and then see at the end of the day which of the three show up as the lowest effectively the lowest score was is his position the other option that she that he presented which is what's also at the bottom of the spreadsheet here here was the different weighted analysis which is the piece underneath here that you have where he took a dozen basically a dozen and he concat I'll use the word concatenated put together a number of the criteria above and said okay well let's look at you know hold on a second all right so he's already done that let's look at um you know area of the site which which is a more General piece uh which maybe encompasses you know two or three of the criteria up top and let's generically talk about that and then we assess it with a little different waiting score um so there were I think there there are at least three different tasks that I see here um the first one is do we have a preference of some sort between doing that individual waiting versus kind of a gen convert over to something a little bit more like this um and then even with this we have to ask ourselves is this is this a good enough list is are we missing something in this um and then um the third piece is how do we how do we actually go through and raate these um you know what do we what do we want to what do we want to do for how we assess this this criter so that I think those are the at least those are the three questions I have in my mind well so it okay okay oh sorry no no no that's fine so I like this this version rather than the the previous version which was you know these 12 categories and you get a 3070 or or or 37 and 10 I forget what it was the I think this is sort of the right approach to try and get this the waiting categories and to to rank them appropriately the hard part is deciding whether this is an example um number eight wetlands and put paths is an equal weight category to design sight and that's as um how you make each one of these 12 things the same weight well they're graded some are 14 to 20 some are 7 to 10 I didn't understand I just see if we agree that's the that's the case and I I didn't I just am getting that now so so I think that's one challenge the other challenge is on on some of these um we don't know I don't know right I take a look at that that was my first thing as well know that flood planes being a good example yeah exactly maybe we should even utilities we don't did BHA come up yeah so so maybe we maybe we should just take one step back on that um so we we we we are we are absolutely not the bearers of all the knowledge to fill this out so let's be clear um but I do I I so I think but I do think that the the first step in this process for us is to try to make sure we flush out okay what are all the criteria that we would like to see assessed and then try to come up with an approach for how we would then take these and assess them and you know do we like I said do we want to wait them in some ways or do we not because to to your point Michael um this is the first I'm seing like site construction cost having a different waiting scale than the other ones right if you look at nine versus um the other so I think um two and nine have have more have more weight simply because they got broader Point ranges that they've added so that was their I guess that was their way to um emphasize those as a stronger Park parking got that yeah so so and and um I mean you could this 10 different ways to slice this cat right know umats have nine lives no okay um so uh I I I I do think that we we the first priority is to make sure we identify all the criteria that we think are relevant to incorpor how did this get to 12 so I think Joel Joel right yes I think Joel just put this out and he said this is this is an example of what I've done in the past for one of my prior example yeah it is it is just an examp so this is not the I don't I I wouldn't take this as the formal bhna this is the criteria you should use he was giving us an example I I'm I I I would agree that he probably uh pulled it from work he's done in the past so it's not completely irrelevant um but we may view it differently based on what we as a community want to want to emphasize yes can I make a comment um in in a previous iteration of the criteria it was much simpler there were there were two sheets he was proposing and um the Council on Aging met on March 4th we had a special meeting to just go over the criteria sheets and we put together a summary of what we felt just what John is saying of what we felt were the most important or criteria that should be considered we did not go into the rating scale at all we just discussed the specific criteria and um we we uh U put it together and um and sent it to me and then I sent it to Rachel today yeah so um to to John's Point um we didn't really have the rating um the rating scale then anyways and it kind of didn't make sense to us so we just stuck with the criteria if that's just helpful and did you prioritize the criteria or only we didn't we just on a chart just listed all of the criteria that we felt it would be important to include in a site based review okay so in fact that you you did prioritize in the sense that these are the things that are important yeah okay yeah and what we use was the very first site plan that bhna sent out but it was it was an it it took us two hours um to go over each piece and talk about it and how would we How would how you know if we were raing it what what would we want on there and we took some things off what was on Joel's um uh or's um a sample because that's really what it was it was a sample much like this is a sample and um one of the things that we're going to try to do now is we are going to try to compare what we came up with with what's on this iteration of a site review and see if every just the broad categories are are included in there but we did not talk about waiting and that whole thing I mean that is a whole another 2our and I don't like the rating thing the sample you know that spread to me when I weigh criteria like for Value you know hiring people you know you give it this a weight of two or three and then you know back kind of a thing as opposed to a range because then people are going to have the range all they're going to you know someone gives it a six and someone gives it a nine uh that skewes it when you're looking at total points because some people are high high Mo so when he presented this last meeting he didn't have these ranges he just had numbers for each one and he said for example um you know take the example of sufficient versus you know expansion or whatever he say like the med the the minimum would be would be a would be a three the medium would be a seven and the maximum would be a 10 so he actually when he did the last criteria he didn't have the ranges at all he just said well let me just say if you pick this this or this these are the numbers I'm going to give it and so it's a little bit of intrinsic waiting in the selection not only of the particular um criteria but also the the the fact that it meets or doesn't meet that um uh assessment that's how that's how we did it the last time um and I actually thought that was a I I would say I I like that better than this um but um yeah it's funny because I actually like this a little better because and I'll just say you know if you give something a three and then some other thing is also a three of one's a lot worse than the other or a lot more expensive or well the expensive can get covered elsewhere but right you know if Pleasant Street doesn't really doesn't have enough parking and for instance Oakland Road maybe has just enough parking you give them both threes there's no difference and that that was sort of a going back to the one two and three kind of thing just but um this I don't know about these ranges yeah no I think that we we probably need to just interesting data point so Jen and I did this right the whole thing I haven't looked at yours I know if you looked at mine yeah I did mine and then I looked at yours did they similar yeah they did Jim I had jimm in the office do it too and wck yeah so between the equal waiting and the their weightings the rankings were pretty much the same as they came out and it sounds like across two people thing happened often the way it works out yeah yeah um and there were some things that I looked at and like I don't know 10 yeah but most of them I was able to kind of say okay so this is a little different from that one so I was able to by having enough points to play with I could make sure I didn't run into that problem of well you know one is is is better than the other but they're both you know they're both seven three or seven or whatever the number is you need you need a way to kind of play with it so I I would almost suggest that maybe we look at this and see are there particular areas that are highest priority general areas not necessarily specific criteria but general areas maybe that helps um and then we can come back and maybe they can layer that in and change these you know you know is parking and what are the three big ones here site construction parking and uh Urban Design site context are all 20 point scale pretty much everything else is 10 the way they did it C oh I yeah and maybe we look at that funny I I rarely took the highest value actually some of the tens I did but on the on the 20s never did I take a high value yeah like if I was doing wetlands and flood planes yeah then at the Pleasant Street Center you know that that would get a 10 because they don't have Wetlands or flood planes right so and Oakland Road is unknown and Simon's way is probably not as good so yeah my Simon way that got a one Oakland Road it got a five and Pleasant Street I only give it a six give it more points okay something like parking quality the site is sufficient parking and it can provide overflow parking for large events see I don't even like that being in there but all right you can't build for Peak I mean you have to Alternative no but but that would be a criteria where prin Simon's way would have it's not not it's not an issue and and clearly parking is an issue of P Street yeah and I put Oakland in the middle between right Oak probably depending on how you do it you might take advantage of the high school parking and all yeah when it's available time yeah yeah so I think that the um the broader scale helped I guess is what I'm saying and maybe what we can do is talk about where the priorities as we see them even here now just to get started are there areas that that are really like everybody is like yes absolutely that's a bigy maybe that would help us I also did a cut at trying to take the equal weight analysis and I cut it in half like just I got it down to 16 or 17 out of the I mean these categories you yeah yeah I just I mean literally I just sat here a couple seconds ago and just yeah kind of you know ownership for example we own them all off right easement a deed restrictions off okay I'm gonna cross them off one or two story option I think they're all the same yep that's off y um location what Streeter yeah that's three flers it's the garage yeah and you got actually down Plus to conceive so then then the the gym starts off at the second floor yeah so that's so we should capture that somehow that that's a little different than the others it is and the others are actually identical others are they the same right yeah okay so we we have to find some way to capture that yeah I mean Oakland because of the site they might not actually be level but so they're they're saying from the work they've done so far um Topography is less of a challenge than they initially suggested that was my view when I did my site visit just let's let's get the construction going show they have some things here on um those proximity for EMT yeah separate from proximity from police um so but that is probably fine since they're you know not that far apart right 100 yards apart yards apart I think we rolled it together into public sa yeah I think that works great um the areas for nature and one lands and that be collapsed as well too so yeah I think that whoops I think between like 20 and 205 there's a way to simplify that right so so 20 is um subsurface water Wetlands insects nature flood Plaines habitat restrictions those are all really one issue in my mind you except some of them are negatives and some of them are positives is positive being a wetland could be ative so maybe you have a a environment positive and an environment negative something like that but that takes sorry that takes one two three four five six seven and brings it to two right I thought overb Buu if yeah yeah that works um sear charge for site clearing um I think for Pleasant Street actually is the bigger issue right because you get demolition oil tank removal is there an oil tank at Pleasant Street no I don't think if they is just been there forever fire yeah but I think it was taken out I think we to I think my company took it out to take oh interesting I think it's been running that's was a gasoline tank there one time yeah um we can take that acquisition of adjacent sites so what does that mean so if you look at the Oakland Road one and you see that one house that kind of is a little cut out um there's a there's a house so the the property is you know big Clump here private house and Clump here so the possibility would be I guess of what the town entertain buying the house trying to buy the house I have no idea W would have any interest that or not but if that were to be something that we deemed a requirement that would that would be a big cost I mean that's a north of a million dollar cost I'm sure do weor oh y yeah I I do this but I didn't bring it in with me I'm sorry um is the of selling Street Center a factor that goes into considering sites renting out renting yes it is using it for other public purp value one value yeah it's number um three on the second reading it says temporary space required that's we go to Oakland Road suddenly the town owns straight it's a biget so I think we actually haven't captured that well currently we should should go yeah um really quickly quickly there is a huge um inground tank at the Pleasant Street Center on the corner of Pleasant Street um and when it fills it floods the basement so there is a huge um couple thousand gallon tank under underneath that's a tank a storm water tank it's like a big Cy um I think it was from the fire department era but problem is now if they don't pump it when it rains regularly the basement floods so that would have to be taken care of John was that the gas tank no say yeah so that actually sounds like um it's not Wetlands or flood plane but it's in this actually it's same category right water issue so we got to capture that at Water the water mitigation yeah on Wetlands we have to get permission from the state as well it engages us in a whole other approval process right yeah okay yeah timeline potentially as well so the we think Simon's way with the markings we have we're outside of that the we're clear of it by sufficient boundaries good to be validated good um I think I think I don't know about Oakland Road at all I don't think there's any weap I don't think it's I don't think it's on a flood plane or conation I I don't think obviously we'll get the right answer but I don't think it's an issue and then on Pleasant Pleasant Street so we just identified this issue the flooding issue yeah and we know that there's water around so yeah so that's an important criteria um all right so how how should we capture this are you adding Kenneth adding subtracting cost yep so what about um so I think you mentioned F Public Service public safety as a as an item um like but the the concept of you know people able to be downtown and you know it wasn't I know the discussion at the thing was oh we want to be close to town hall well wasn't really Town Hall it was being downtown so you could run your errands you could go to your go to CVS you could do that so that the concept of story yeah um the the concept of having you know the ability to be you know walkable or within within the downtown area and and have access to other services and walkability score well it's not even a little bit it's there is that's how towns are val proximity for user access n we we called it proximity to Community Resources and services yeah you could even put Business Center in there if you wanted to didn't the one of the um study things came out that that wasn't a big criteria I think so yeah but at this recent Forum though it seemed that people were U right but you're getting a certain yeah yeah the the discussion um was that one's proximity and walkability depending on where you live so if you live down on Franklin Street you know that's but if you lived over on summer ra that's a whole different um BAC so you know whether that's a criter you would want that as a criteria I think loc's important though yeah I don't know I don't think so you don't think so everybody's G to go by car pardon me everybody's going to go by car we senior CI transport transportation of some it's a big issue though we were discussing this actually at the Winchester sign of the other day a bunch of reading people and and the consensus there was it doesn't make any difference where it is another one called public transportation to Slash from Center you know that could be provided by the town that could be bus service provided by the state oh we do have the one bus line in town yeah um can I bring just kind of a it's an adjacent point just to come back to later but it relates to transport when Chris and I went to Randolph was it Chris um they seem to know how to get a bunch of grants um and some money from AARP and a bunch of other things and and they they you know knew some stuff at some point we got to think about how can we um find a resource to help us find some of that stuff yes so actually our volunteer coordinator is taking a grant writing class right now and I think Chris is too or thinking when he has free time J Jen and myself are um working on grant writing um classes yeah but um we talked to them a lot because they have a lot of Transport there partially because it's a community center also but there was they had a bus line and all sorts of other things going on to get people there was k h and shago when you need her she was great at writing Grant then was too maybe she wants to volunteer okay so that's um so transportation to and fro and you remember who it was what else what else is actually this is great what else is not think we want to push a little bit harder I think the piece that I I have and I want people's feedback on this because I was thinking when we actually went through this the first time I had written this down like the the usability of the building itself as it relates to the needs that we're trying to meet now I I know we obviously we've had a lot of presentations on what we think each of these are supposed to be and for the for the two buildings that's supposed to be the same that may be a moot point but there was a lot of feed not feedback there were questions about well what are the differences between the one at Pleasant Street versus the others and how much of a difference do they actually make and I think it's worth trying to make an assessment of that um only because I continue to have in the back of my mind this fear that we end up selecting presence Street and people say why would we do this again why are we constraining ourselves to the same you know things that we were complaining about to begin with um so I would like to have some way of in in integrating that kind of concept into our assessment I I mean I'd be interested in your thoughts on this but I I definitely felt there was a you know perspective that that you know there is it good or bad as much as people said oh I really like you know this this location and it's great I just I I I I would hate to be in this buyers remorse position you know RB yeah right right there we almost Nancy and I have been talking a lot about that and we were thinking that something needs to be added to this it's it's um the sites appropriateness for what we would prioritize as our preference among the buildings it's so like if you could take the buildings and just put them anywhere um you know Oakland Road might be your favorite but that might not be the best site but you need to measure on those two things it could be a great site but not really accommodate the flow of building that you want as well as another one would so somehow those two things have to factor into this U and we've been looking at things like literally how many rooms do we end up with here versus there and it does also get into the community center versus just singer Center um but all those layers need to be thought about but doesn't the architectural design taking that take that into consideration other words you tell them what you you we already looked at you know size of rooms and this kind of thing and they're supposedly incorporate that in any in all three location they're different Pleasant Street in particular well Pleasant Street Pleasant Street is the one where you I think that's the I think that's the point I would be that we were that that that I was concerned about I certainly heard it raised by by Folks at both of that the two meetings that I went to is that they um so first is this concept of of flow as you mentioned that you know you got three floors at Pleasant Street you got smaller smaller rooms here you don't necessarily have that you know the con the concept of what the other buildings provide in terms of an area that is truly okay this is senior use this is more Community use it's a it's a lot more difficult to kind of see that in the existing senior in the existing Pleasant Street Center designs um and maybe that's really the only maybe that's really the only issue I I don't I don't know but but I I I I I don't I think it's an important enough issue in my opinion I think it's an important enough issue to capture in one of the criteria I guess that's the point because it it's been it's been brought up um I would say particularly by COA but but I think other people have brought it up as you know what do we really want this to look like and be and and how is it going to work for the community and and it does actually go as you said towards you know is it is it really you know conceptually enough to be a a community center on top of a senior center and I again I don't have the answer to that question but I I'd like to see us try to capture that in this somehow piece of two is um Pleasant Street is constrained and the others are are more purpose built and in fact they're identical right you're gonna be relying you're going to be relying on the elevator at Pleasant Street a lot more than the other two sites um it reminds me of what they said at Burlington which had you know had a lot of things far they said don't ever go into a school because it was already constrained yeah constrained yes there wasn't the flow because this wasn't the purpose for which it was constructed and I think it at Pleasant stre is even more constrainted TI and and and by the way we may end up saying in the end that when we look at cost and all the other site issues that it still may be the choice that we are we go with I I'm not I'm not trying to sway that choice I just think it's important to add that as a criteria to make sure people understand that we are looking at this not just all these other wetlands and parking and everything like that but the the actual building itself the thing that we want it to be how does that rank up against the three we it just happens to be by not by chance but by design that two of them are the same and so okay that that makes that easy um question is how much value do do you attribute to that versus the constrain piece that you're going to get in the other area so is is that wrapped up in you know Urban Design andt there is a document that Rachel sent out that I could resend that gives all of the buildings and the square footage and she has talked quite a bit about what what square footage a senior center should have versus a community center so she's very thoughtful about the spaces and the planning um so I can resend that to everyone cuz I think it's a really good document and it Compares all the sites okay n way I was just going to say we had this same problem when when we did our discussion on March 4th and what we did was we separated it out so we looked at the site criteria but then we have a whole another set of criteria that we develop for the actual building and layout and rooms and all those kinds of things you know and and um because otherwise it was it didn't it didn't seem to to flow so you know people are interested we'd certainly share you know how we divided that out and what we thought was was um important um to to John's comment we we had that it was really a very similar thought process and the only way we could do it was to divide it into two separate but if it could be summarized in the site criteria as one or two points that would be fabulous too it's the relative ranking of the three in terms of those kinds of measures as well well to me it's the thing that they don't have here I'm trying to look at this they have facilitates multigenerational use but it doesn't say facilitate you know use as as a senior center that's nowhere captured there that I see anyway right we would hope that that would be a given yeah I mean you're saying yeah that's but there is issue of flow and Street Center the designs yeah and the if you have the chart also that shows the current space and the potential space I you're think the mega room whatever it's called multi-purpose or whatever I believe that's the smallest at Pleasant Street because that's all it can be yeah 2300 instead of 25 I think something rough take a little yeah in the kitchen too yeah in the kitchen I think is another one con if J Jenna has our two charts and we'd be happy to share them with with this group if you're were all interested just to kind of get an idea that's all and they're both work in progress we we left it with let's all citate on it some that we've kind of done our first brain dump but they are two very different lists of things to think about question how far down the road we want to go get tonight on this because they took them a couple of hours you know and two hours and 15 minutes to what counting was a good a good points that we've captured and I sent Rachel the coa's feedback from their first meeting and then I could send her all of your feedback and maybe share it with you John about everything that I compiled or sent it out to the whole group to the whole group yeah um and then people could write back and say oh you missed this this or this and then I'll send it to Rachel and then um she'll probably review it with us um at our Thursday meeting you to sleep no neither to any of you you're doing this for free it's my job thank you should we make a decision on what method we like you mean the equal weight versus the page one versus p i I really didn't hear anyone say equal weight given these criteria because they're just insects I mean that's that's an interesting point but it's not equal to construction cost so it's so it's more what kind of weight weight system and Mark was saying and I guess General two that it was helpful to have more rain so other people on that point I think it would be best that way I think it would be best that way to have the range okay and would the range be as significant as what they have here or that I'm not sure guess we could dig in a little bit there is meeting and ask why these are rated the way that they are maybe he give us more feedback and a big does Thursday me um with with bh+ a yeah I meet with them every Thursday few other folks like Chris is there yeah Matt so um so if we kind of just meet tomorrow and get some more feedback on the intention of the raing scale we can have him summarize that for all of us and then I can send that out to the group that understanding and to me you know if you would ask him like say temporary COA space required now that's where the range doesn't make sense to me either it is or it isn't so you know S Pen what the so I would look at that anyway not necessarily at least that one jumped out at me need to have a range on all of them um so the the value of the range is to distinguish between the different locations right so right but is that going to vary as far as temporary COA space um so it's it's kind of yes no on that one right right yeah that's that's all I'm saying on that one right yeah yeah most of the others I think and other than wetlands and flood planes but you already ch I almost think that could be put into a a cost perspective because really that's what what it's referring to so you I mean it there is there is the issue of you know the logistics of making all of that happen and I don't want to minimize that by any stretch of the imagination but but purely speaking it's a cost issue right and it's the only way if it's Oakland Road or Simon way then it's not not needed so that's cost the issue on on that side of it if it's yeah no it's it's no I agree that the the the there will be some of the like I said for each of these there'll be some where you'll be like yeah they are kind of you know yes no issues and for yes no issues I would agree they shouldn't necessarily be rankings you should be able to figure out how do you incorporate them in the other pieces if they're just purely yes no answers so that one for example I would say okay it's a yes no answer so it's really just a cost issue and where would you put that under con I put it under construction cost because it's you have to incorporate it there yeah um so one of my questions is is traffic conditions like that really seems yeah I didn't know like a non well like at the high school I think it's back to cost say the high school if you're going to do something at 7 to 9 you're competing with a high school you have hockey traffic yeah but and the high school's a big issue I think with the traffic yeah but I I I go to know why up there and yeah traffic day you have to but these are seniors remember well thank you than you the other seniors where pardon me downtown in the evening is very trafficky trafficky too yeah I I just think the there is a thing going on in the morning yeah Simon's way has a Simon's way is having an argument with the uh on um The Little Treasures uh parking L right sorry wasn't there a traff d& were they were out um last week doing the traffic study um I know she was at puin Street Center and she was going to go take a look at the other two sites yeah um so they looked at that last week at different times of day um I'm not sure at different times a day um that really would be important yeah but they were out last week to at least start that study there there is a safe schools grant that we got for Oakland Road not just the intersection of bir Meow in Oakland it's all the way up Oakland so there's some amount of money to to look at traffic there and to to improve it somewhat I'm sure that this would require a lot more but it's at least a start to the to that question and I think they moved the driveway yes they did for that re the yeah the turn easier Al also at um Oakland Road most of our program doesn't start until 9 o'l we only have one thing it starts at 8:30 right now so um if if we kept that and looked at the schedule for any of the sites most things don't start until 9: and then the the actual the ending like say 3 o'clock when they let out that's the that's going to be the harder one is the afternoon that 45 minutes when schools um when Schools get out and Simon's way has one way in one way out right it has the Little Treasures and it has kill it has what kill the school oh yeah okay it's diagonally across just about so you're saying this same traffic traffic situations so we should anthus but it's that's haal street but I mean yes there's some parking on holl but not a lot most of it's on the Char Street side yeah and there's a light there which helps to some extent the church there as well too so St anthus y it is a busy my our kids went to Little Treasures it is a busy um it is that's a nightmare it's yeah it's a scare it's a scary Road right there I mean I'm not trying to sway anything but I'm just letting you know my experience it's very fast even the entrance to Simon's way is very narrow yeah it's not you know you're going into a a site it's it's it's narrow yeah it's like a road into an ice R doesn't mean you doesn't mean you can't widen the road either you get in none of these sites yes perect perfect which is exactly why we're going through Street Center and people are parked on both side of the roads you can't and it's just a single like I'm like I can just see someone taking someone right now from a lot of things that's what third first thought about traffic is you know could the van get in there easily and drop people off and get to the front door and turn around and get out of there and all the sites have issues with that y some are better than others and U yeah so access was one of them right yes worry about high school access I worry less about traffic at Pleasant Street um I have heard a lot of concerns um among the older um our clientele about um getting into a parking deck um so I think traffic especially that design that they had it was one way in the other way yeah so I think two sites have a traffic issue one site has a parking they had a holler car out of there the other day with somebody oh yeah went down the ram yeah drove down the ram don't know how that almost made it the only other piece of feedback I have so I I I still do like the idea of kind of a general approach with this that that Joel presented here of the tough thing um I actually was as I was just thinking about this I actually think all of these whatever however many we if we did decide on this however many we have everyone gets assessed the same one to 10 and then what you do is you you set waiting at the overall level because that way people have the same conceptual view of how to assess it and then if you say Hey you know well you know the the the location of the parking you know that's that's a one but the parking point that's a two and so you could weit some of these a little differently you know I think that's a greata after the fact after well well not after but at least that way you're not confusing the assessment process you know that we're using the same criteria as we look at each of these and we're not thinking oh I got to do this one one to 20 and this one one to 10 and this one one to five and I you know it's a good ide then that that way that that also gives us the ability after we put them all together is to do a ranking and prioritization which I think would probably be worthwhile when we get to that point and then we can then we could use that and say okay these the top three become twos the middle ones are are one and a half and the bottom ones are one whatever I mean whatever process we want to come up with and would you want to have an exive mapping that's the struct um so I mean I I mean just looking at this just like what we just did I think we kind of did that in our heads yeah it would actually you know what maybe it would be worth just doing that exercise and saying okay let's make sure all of these that are relevant are covered um and then that'll also identify any that are truly are missing right whether and and whether those ones that are missing like you know ownership okay who cares right um so um that would might not be an unreasonable thing to do um and it might help us decide how much weight yeah if there's five criteria listed under one that might be a more important one than one that just says one yeah I like that idea now H how do we account for the issue that was I think Mar and both talked to about flow within that's not on here now yeah I put that as a star to ask plus a I think that's a yeah significant issue to take a look at yeah I I don't think bhna was necessarily expecting that we're going to turn around and hand them this exactly on a silver platter and say here it is go use it right y but but we are going to do have to do some more work on this okay John so your recommendation was like a one to 10 whatever we so I have two recommendations two recommendations the first one is I think we should stick with a smaller list like this Y and that for each of them we just do a one to 10 scale and then prioritize the total list and do some relative waiting I like Michael's idea which is to help us figure out which ones we should do we should go back to the the big list and try to break them up to see how they allocate out against against these and maybe even suggest that the weights we could assign would be one one and a half two something like something just to constrain it so something goes and get a four suddenly right and then and also you have to make sure not everything ends up with the same weight because well you could you you could you could you could go crazy with it and say okay let's rank them one to 12 and number one gets 025 you number two gets 0. five number three you know you you you know whatever well I would imagine construction cost has to be pretty high on the list yeah yep yeah I I I expect Big Driver that's for sure change um I'm gonna run turn into a pumpkin shortly um that cl's an hour behind I know it's an hour behind so is everybody on board with that like a one through1 what what we come up with and then wait it afterwards I kind of like that idea okay I'm seeing and shoot for 12 12 criteria you agree I see yeah and I was just going to say that we can share this concept with the COA members because they have this latest spreadsheet and that would be a good way to approach um so we get consensus okay all right so action for this yes um I know you already you've taken a lot of notes on this stuff um I know we have a bhna tomorrow at 1:30 yeah so um I don't I don't know if I'll I was gonna say I don't know if I'll have a chance to do that other piece we just talked about but maybe maybe we could we could ask bhna to help us do that as well yeah that would be good I'll probably just end up giving them all of the suggestions and having them compile something new again and um working off with that now um so we're good on that I'm looking at the time I'm looking at the agenda items and um I don't know if some can be put off uh kind looks like you guys talk communication Plan update and discussion for John go well we really yeah we really haven't done anything further on that from a recal perspective um do we need to apart from what we talked about doing you know for town meeting that is yes no no clearly that is that is another step but um I I'll recycle us back a little bit when we first restarted um and I'm not throwing this I'm not throwing you under the bus by the way but we I kind of recommended that we kind of move a lot of the communication stuff off to COA which actually they've already they've already kind of taken so you know what they were just talking about the the the April and May open things couple other things so I I I think we should try to support them because recal so your next agenda item recal is going to Sunset so we're going to go away um so in reality we we need to kind of find a way to make sure this doesn't S joh Marilyn wants to oh yep just one point um I I agree with you totally but um I've been like writing the monthly or Drafting and Karen Janowski and I work on it together the letters to the editor and so far it's been Senior Center needs of senior center because that's kind of all COA can say at this stage um but if we go with combined Community Center um Senior Center we will need someone speaking to the community perspective in Communications and we'll need to work together which I trust we can do but I'm not not mentioning it in the current ones because I'm not support I'm trying not to support anything but from the COA perspective right now we're kind of limited by definition to councel on agent to Senior Center issues uh and I'm trying to write them just to inform people about things and I don't know how many people read out I'm told some people go right for that's not me but we will need a recal or something to get the broader perspective if and when we get to that point yeah the recreation committee has been um involved in the programming shet and we've been updating them on what's going on but they haven't seen a formal presentation or anything from b but they can be engaged and we can get you in touch with the chair of the recreation committee but I think the recreation committee is going to be the key there is going to be an intergenerational component sure so just like the council is taking up the senior center as well as you know that was part of our charge as well you know seniors first but then intergenerational as well and you've got your own lists of people that you can contact that we can capitalize on and things like that so it needs to be a unified thing once we figure out what the unit so just so I think your point is right that obviously the communication we're going to do for child meeting is part of this the all of these design shs all these meetings really are communication yes so I mean we let's not just let's let's let's give let's take credit for some of the things that we are actually doing yeah um we um and we're certainly through the April early May time frame putting together the the recommendations and going through that that's going to be another piece of communication um I I do have one question and I only ask it because I have not obviously been able to spend any time on this at all and that is the site visit work where are we with that is there anything is there anything on that that we can include in our report to town meeting other than just that we are also doing site visits and we'll have some more information I I I yeah what do we yeah I'm just curious I I know I'm sorry ch yep I kept reaching out about setting up different visits and it just wasn't working people's schedules so have we how many have we done we've gone through a couple already five or six so I mean take credit for it yeah right then yeah I mean I don't know if I've seen have we you put together the spreadsheet on yeah I don't think it's been used okay um but it' be good to put that together so we have at least what we've done right if that's yeah I did the Burlington one I mean even if the answer is we only get to five or six I still think it's a win rightt yeah so um okay well just just something to think about for for the communic should include the site visits that were done previously as well too where site visits right so but in where to include in where just in the total total yeah oh total recal as of to date has now completed 18 site visits you know whatever yeah I think that's that's worth it before you head out when should we meet again uh yeah so the next meeting we have needs I think it needs to be a joint COA recal meeting with bhna presenting cost so it's got to be the not next week the week after and if and if people could give a a range you know a couple of dates so that okay um sharing it with the COA here's my nightly schedule nightly schedule yeah how about TimeWise too what's a good when does a COA what time of is it seven what time 60 63 6:30 somebody did Wednesday the 27th like tonight in two weeks what day is um it's a Wednesday so either if we do Wednesday can we do six again GNA serve supper this time um I you gonna serve supper I gotta go home to three meetings that's starting at 8 N9 and 10 so you know I I suggested six um for a COA meeting and a couple people you know they're working so they said um 6:30 was a little tight but 6 it would be very difficult 6:15 no 6:30 was wasn't even get as it was just kind of acceptable I'm I'm I'm fine with 630 I'll and that that's a joint meeting yeah I think it needs to be a joint meeting now you were looking for another dat too just in Cas just and of course my phone's out of and maybe if they know it's just going to be one meeting they can be flexible with the six o'clock this time around well again I'm I I I would I'll be flexible on my side I will I will do 6:30 um I might have to do it remote then but um I think the question we need to make sure uh Rachel's available yes as well yes um another reason for another date as well we picked the 27th how about just what are people scheduled on Thursday the 28th is that a are there other meetings I'm a no go Thursday that's right you're back your spring break's over spring break's over sorry Monday Monday uh as of the moment is a select board meeting scheduled which one is the Thursday we can't do Thursday okay good I've got something to syy all that night we're kind of stuck with the 27 we do is for me Wednesday following week is the following week too late for yes yeah I think we really need to meet that last week in March and get this in front of people because if we really are going to put together a recommendation and use April as a CH to put this in front of people we have to have a discussion amongst ourselves first I mean I I I've said this like a broken record either we're all on the same page or this is Dead on Arrival y so we need that time to communicate and listen and understand as best as we can because as soon as these numbers get out there we're going to get bombarded with questions and we better be ready to answer them so I would rather us be together on that than kind of often I don't want to wait but what happens if uh Nancy can't get a quum for the 27th well let's let's what day the week is it Wednesday Wednesday just died so Wednesday Wednesday the 27 how many people do you need six we four and six um just of curiosity do I count for both on the corner you do yes yes let's go with the 27th and I will do some uh uh asking and asking the COA members okay I mean the only other the only other option that week uh I hate to even suggest it uh is Friday is that good Friday can we have drinks is that good Friday Good Friday I think yeah I can't yeah it is it is never mind the 29th is Good Friday busy Monday the 2 Mee Good Friday Monday the 25th you can I mean if the 27th doesn't work maybe April 1 which is a Monday um I thought someone said so I can't M Mondays I can't do nights at all I can't do Monday nights Thursday nights every other Tuesday night sorry Wednesday the 27th it is make okay baby remaining tasks for recount Before Sunset remember relate I think to Transportation communication Finance um I think that's it right so it's updates on what's going on with that anything we found we did learn something about but just like you know right but that really trained goes back to the reports of the visits right uh yes and we also remember we had kind of the smaller groups that were going to come back and say oh here's what we learned about finances here's what we learned about transportation we were we were actually some of the site visit info that we asked about would help us in that so that's why asked about the site visits so I don't know if did we get paperb from any any many sites well when I went I took notes on to need them in Burlington yeah and then I compiled them onto like my notes and then I don't know about what there were four things was programming yeah programming is them and kind of this programming finance and transportation those were the three areas that which I do think we should programming fin transportation and well the four the fourth group was the feasibility yes yes yes exactly and that's obviously taken Center Stage for obvious reasons but but we can't we we should you know finish that piece of it I when do we yeah June 30th how we do yeah I actually have the 2024 honor before so uh ready do you think it's appropriate to extend that through September October there's I think we should talk about that at the next meeting if that's what people think and if there are specific tasks to get done motion to adjourn second sorry I'm all in favor thank you very much thanks folks e e e for