okay right come to 16 oh 15 16 May 2024 the time is 6:35 roll CL and here Rond M here I Hogan hereo here Sharon Lee V here Pao here an Cruz here Amanda C here e har here Chris Havens here adequate of this meeting has been post b h the B clerk to the esur Park Press at Two River times in the star leder this meeting is being P recorded and in the event the applicant uses Services of a cour order to transcribe the take the board requires a copy of the transer we will break at about 8:00 pm for deliberation of testimony those F the conference room on the first floor public is invited to attend and however discussion between board members and the public is not permitted at that time no new cases will be heard after 9:00 p.m. the Red Bank onlyy Board of adjustment has maintained a policy cut off hour of 9:30 p.m. for hearings any applicants I heard this evening will be carried over to next scheduled meeting pledge Alle FL United States of America to the for it stands one nation under God indivisible with Li and justice for all it's April 4th um Andor oh we got first sorry U I'll move that we accept those minutes second yesman M Ben yes Ben yes Sharon Lee I mean Vincent light yes Paul C yes and Anna Chris yes okay we have regular meeting h of April 18 I'll approve them a second and Tor yes Hogan yes Beno yes Vincent L yes Kagel yes Anna Bruce yes okay we have the resolution of approval for uh 140 40 148 Broad Street Mr chairman this was an approval for a wall sign at the last meeting and the conditions of note are compliance with Shauna's review memorandum no third party advertising it's it's not no interchangeable copy no fluorescent it's just a straight up wall sign and the other condition was the um illumination and it was going to be put on a timer and uh what the discussion was it's going to be off from 11 o'clock PM to 7 o'clock AM or the reverse uh in terms of on until uh 11 o'clock pm so if that's acceptable to the board we can adopt that as modified anybody make a motion to approve I'll move to accept it as modified I'll second and Tor yes Ken Hogan yes Beno yes v l yes Paul kagum yes approv yes okay new business we have a 40 EBG in place which sure and sha that is the um cersa and uh Gil Alison trust file and we are going to carry that we had a slight noticing issue and so we're going to carry it till when June June June 6 2024 uh and is there anyone here tonight on that application Okay so uh the what what happened is the individuals who are supposed to receive notice did but the uh various utility companies did not and that of an abundance of caution uh we just want to make sure that if the board you know that we have jurisdiction and so we're going to carry it with the requirement that the applicant provides notice legally sufficient notice to those utility companies so if it's acceptable to the board we can have a motion to carry this application until June 6 June 6 2024 at 6:30 pm so moved I'll move it second yes bman M yes Hogan yeso yes Sharon Lee Vincent light yes Paul KAG yes Hanah Cruz yes okay we have 2123 Broad Street okay Mr chairman as the applicant team comes for we just have a couple couple of things to do uh first up is there anyone here who had any questions or comments or concerns regarding the sufficiency of the notice they received okay I don't see any uh the board secretary and I reviewed the notice and found everything to be in order so it would be my humble opinion that we have jurisdiction to proceed tonight and uh what we'll do is we're going to swear in uh Jacqueline durman our board engineer and Shauna Ebanks our director of Community Development so Jackie and Shauna do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the extent you provide any such information will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you God all right let the record reflect that uh both uh women have been sworn and we will Mark into the record what we as a board have uh before us so um we're g to start off with uh A1 is going to be the uh Red Banks uh Department of Planning and Zoning application and A2 is going to be the denial letter dated January 30th 2024 and then A3 will be the architectural plans prepared by uh Edward O'Neal of some Architects dated February 8 2024 consisting of five sheets and we're going to update that momentarily A4 is the refu and recycling plan prepared by some Architects dated February 8th 2024 last revised March 21st 2024 A5 is the location survey prepared by George Anderson LLC dided August 18th 2023 A6 is the traffic generation and parking calculation letter report repaired by Lee Klein of Klein traffic Consulting LLC dated April 1st 2024 and A7 is the Red Bank Green development checklist A8 is a project narrative and request for site plan uh waiver and undated and A9 is the disclosure of ownership A10 is going to be the tnm associates review letter dated April 19th 2024 and then we have another uh will Mark as a11 uh second tnm Associates review letter dated May 15 2024 and a12 will be the architectural plans prepared by some Architects lated February 8th 2024 last revised April 26 2024 and I think a13 we have a transmittal letter prepared by John Anderson Esquire dated May 6 2024 and Shaun it do I have any HPC or sha Tre or police memo that I have to mark in yes letter all right so A14 is the River Center memorandum then the um historic preservation application all right so a15 is the HPC is it a review memorandum it's it's the application in application with the conditions um okay so um I'm sure Mr Anderson will talk about that and this is John Anderson and John just do me a favor after you um enter your appearance somewhere on the application I saw that there technically might be two applicants 21 Broad rbl LLC and 21 broad 2 LLC uh if you could just give the um uh principles identify the principal so we can just do an internal conflict check if you don't mind and Mr Anderson make sure you and your client speak into the microphone so we can certainly thank you John Anderson of Bost San Filippo and M on behalf of the applicant 21 broad RB LLC and 21 brad2 LLC address Mr Kennedy's question the principal of 21 broad RB LLC Sao you see to my right and the principal of 21 broad rb2 LLC is his wife Jennifer she's not with us this evening um this is all right so just hearing that excuse me one second uh hearing that disclosure any conflicts questions about conflicts comments about conflicts we're good to go thank you um so Mr Kennedy thank you for pre-marking those exhibits uh before I give a brief introduction one other exhibit that I would likely refer to this evening maybe we can pre-mark that one as well sure 16 it's a actually a resolution of this board I will give you the resolution number and the date second uh resolution 2019-18 on application number Z1 3309 and the date is June 20th of 2019 I have an extra copy for you sure and just just for the record what was the name of that applicant uh let's see it should be at the top 17 broad uh Street Red Bank LLC but with regard to 21 broad thank you slightly confused got it all right what's the date on it uh the date was June 20th 2019 so we'll mark that as a16 I'll send it down and just get it back um in anyway this is a um application concerning 21 Broad Street it's uh block 28 l ccd2 zone basically the uh call it North East block of Broad Street closest cross street would be Mechanic Street it's one building away from the corner so it's situated next to Door Lor um on the right and on the leftand side would be the former catch 19 site which is undergoing rest uh renovations right now to reopen as a TI restaurant so it's um it's a building that dates to the 1920s as our architect will tell you it's designed in an art modern style it's been vacant for quite some time as far as I could tell vacant dating back to approximately 2012 so we have a 12E period of time where this building has been underutilized certainly much to the sugrin of many of the downtown merchants and restaurants and stakeholders in town the resolution that I referred to previous ly marked as a16 was a resolution of this board uh you weighed in on that site in 2019 and at that time you approved it as a quote unquote non-permitted hybrid jazz club vendor market and office the basement was going to be like a jazz club the first floor was like a I don't know a chelc market type com set little vendor stalls and then the second and third were going to be off office I don't believe that any of that ever actually heard other than the office second third floor but the proposal this evening is and John I'll just I think I was here when we did that and I think uh the unique name was because it didn't fit into any uh definitive definition and so we sort of came up with a interpretation name but that was from I guess we weren't as original as I thought we were you know no no criticisms here of the the name um I only mention it just to to point out that as far as I could tell the use mixture would have required a d variance at that time noncommitted use whereas we're here before you this evening actually seeking to utilize the building in a permitted way as a primary food use if uh if possible we'd like to do sales of alcohol that would be subject to appropriate licensure and that would be at section there service with the food remaining primary um the the proposal really is not just a change of use but uh a complete gut renovation uh from the basement all the way to the third floor so quite a bit of interior Renovations as well as some exterior Renovations as as you may have guessed the the HPC memo and the Vic memo this has been reviewed extensively for exterior Renovations both by River Center and by your historic reservation commission both of which endorsed it River Center without any changes and the HPC there were some I would call them fairly minor changes but things that they they found to be important and we agreed that we we would abide so we agreed already that we would paint the exterior color from the store of color pallet anything that we do to the um entryway of the building they reference was for a tiled entryway like a black and white tile with street address perhaps set into that tile that was acceptable to us as well um they what else did they let's see they wanted a plaque in interior the space um describing a little bit of the history of the building and the art mod design which we agreed to and um the word Doris adorns the top of the building our plans previously said that we were going to obscure that word um I think it was a poor word choice and we agreed it would not be obscured but rather that it would just be painted to match whatever color the rest of the facade was which is the way it is today it's a white facade with white lettering I think we're going to stick in a white color palette also being white so no major change there um the variances before you this evening are three one for parking um we don't have any can't get any have 100% lot coverage and that's a condition that's 100 years old uh so no parking now none proposed you previously granted a variance for 88 space 88 spaces that we required that we couldn't Supply I believe the architect will testify that under his revised conditions this um primary food use would re require 143 so it's it is an increase from what you previously approved but we'll speak to on that issue um there was a a setback variance identified which hadn't dawned on me tnm called it out has to do with a setback of a commercial building that residential use so the thought is well there there may be an apartment next door to us on the third floor of what is the low hall building and so we're going to do a modest expansion of the third floor which is not a full story now to accommodate an elevator hoistway emergency e stairway so we have a zero foot setback to the adjacent building now along the entirety of it and I guess this one little area where we have the Hoist way stairs which doesn't presently exist will also now be a zero foot setback and so there's a sensitivity to next door the good news is it's a brick wall with no windows in it so changing it is really going to have no impact on anybody that inside and the third variance is what's called a flary ratio variance EV variance and that also has to do with that same proposed condition involving the elevator hoist way and the staircase guess it's two restrooms on the third floor so as I said right now the third floor uh um does not run the whole depth of the building it's much shallower than the second floor below it in the first floor below it so we would be working at the back end of that third floor to do a modest addition techically give you the square footage of it it will not be visible from the street because you already have the existing third floor of the building that's going to high and set behind it so it's really invisible won't change the mass at the street or anything like that and the whole intent is to be able to provide Ada access to a building that presently could could be ADA Compliant on the first floor but not on the upper floors because there's no elevator in this so those are the variances I have seated with me Mr savoo who will get sworn they'll discuss with you the anticipated operations of the primary food use have Mr to speak to you as an architect and planner and if you need still line to speak to his uh traffic okay all right we swear you in good evening and welcome to the Red Bank zoning board if you could just state your name and address maros and Marcos is m r name sa sa Victor thank you and address 38 windir Road Lin New Jersey all right good evening uh do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best of your knowledge to help you go thank you good evening everyone Mr sa would you briefly tell the board about you your experience as developer um come from a family his of uh real estate development uh Custom Homes strip mels rebuilt communities my father 50s want raes into the construction field and um with everything we do you know I was telling John uh we take with pride we usually build in our communities and we fortunate enough all these years to develop where we live or near where we live so we take a lot of Pride what we do we're not just investors you know we care about the five minutes down the road we shop here we live here my wife my kids so um had the opportunity to purchase some uh Broad Street uh same thing with my brother and all the family members and friends that do own onroad every one of them care about the properties and we could have invested anywhere and we purchased here because we knew what the town is what you guys did with the boardwalk uh which I think is fantastic um I do have a house down the shore you can't find restaurants you can eat everybody says thank God Red Bank did what they did we could come here eat on the sidewalks you know you feel like you're in Europe That's What attracted me you know for this building and um that's that's pretty much true all right so um allowing a caveat which is to say that the building is being marketed for lease and not presently leased would you tell the board to the best of your ability how you anticipate that this primary food use would function it's OED and I'm sorry just before I forgot are you the owner of the property right now your company yes and how long have you owned it since roughly eight months eight months thank you sorry John okay you caught me off the hand I didn't have the best yeah oh so tell a bit about the operation so the operation what what we realized uh feedback from local you know Brokers and communities and pretty much that street really is a restaurant row um the feedback that I've been getting um it's it's pretty much you know retail it goes so far but now that we turned that block into what we turned it into um it's it's a lot of phone callose for restaurants but you know my vision is they have a building sitting here for 12 years that looks hard people that know I own it or what I please we got to do something let make a destination even you know a supper club or or something with jazz or something where you could find ding you know we're not looking I'm not looking for either a club or problems or fights in the street because we all know those businesses don't last you know it's the wrong people so when I brought it to John and and had you know we had this concept of you know doing the restaurant on the third floor uh we could do an outdoor Roof Garden maybe a dessert area um but how the building lays out the first FL you do have a lot of kitchen area you you know so the front with the lobby and the staircase takes away so the second floor would be the dining room downstairs you do need storage for a restaurant so that cffs half off so it's not as big as you think once you start splitting up these floors if it was one ground level of 12,000 sare feet it's a little different than time to do staircases elevators not as big as You' think but down stage you can do one tasting room um and the Really the building when I was talking with Ed from the 20s and 30s it fits that far if you did a jazz if you did a cabaret if you did nothing nothing crazy Maybe Supper Club somewhere you can sit and eat dinner um classy something for ages 40 50 60 70 everybody I talk to including myself you go to dinner two three hour like all right what are we going to do there's nothing else to do you know something you could hear a piano something a destination um and not just a regular store not just you know we do need the regular stores as well you have some stores you have restaurants but where we are on that fresh trip what you guys created I believe the only use is and what I get a feedback is is a great restaurant destination spot together like I said all ages and none of the Riff ra but I believe leave something classy and something this town can really use because I hear in my neighborhood and everywhere we love Red Bank we just wish there was a little bit more just besides dinner maybe a show or you know something that you can eat and sit outside um so that's that's the vibe we got and we are talking to some tenants but I I'm the type of landord that I would filter out if I don't like that use and live here the kids come here like I wouldn't want a problem it's my name on the building you know so we look for good people we F to everyone out and so fine dining essentially fine dining essential Li a license we all know is a problem you should have more in this town um but you know working on that maybe if someone sells but it's not the end of the world Bob is an option you could do um you know plenty of things this are you you know anything you have to do to the extent you serve alcohol if at all it's not proposed to be like primary bar or bar heavy not um let's see and you you anticipate this would be predominantly like lunch and mainly dinner dinner uh nothing crazy 10 like I said if you create the right atmosphere the right people will come it's something different the 20s and 30s and I love that old and we were talking last night with the historical board maybe when you come in you see all the history of Red Bank in that on that building and elsewhere they wanted that's great I love it you come in you feel like in 20s 30s you could have a great gasp you could you know that's what this town's about and I feel like that's different than just regular restaurant pizza real okay that's all great we all need all that but something different with this anybody I tell them that would be like a supper club feel like you're in the 40s you know something with life but not crazy I'd open it up to questions from the board about sort of the aspirations of the owner for the central tenant he anybody from the board have a question for Mr sa ask oh um you had said it's more like if do go to dinner somewhere maybe if they go somewhere else if they can come over after is it it's going to be like that do you do you think not having a liquor license well I mean that's I'm just wondering you know sometimes people go somewhere after dinner and go let's go have a night somewhere or whatever I mean You' bring your own not I know Jersey if the one is Made in Jersey the be and stuff like I know there there's some things you could bring in if it's yeah I'm not sure of that um yeah that's something to figure out and that's why you know the licis is important I people that have it willing either they're giving it up for sale but you know we would have to you know maybe we do a dessert you know that that's why I was saying like the third floor you can do a dessert you know coffee cappuccinos espressos at night but still listen to music maybe you had I just want to rely on alcohol but they could be m so are you going to open the restaurant or did you say you're looking for tenants to open you're own the building well I have I have a few partners of mine that are in the restaurant business but um I do have also clients coming in uh people that were brought to me that we want to do it okay but we just didn't have the approval nobody wants to commit right and to do all this work and then if we can't do a restaurant they didn't to preparation okay okay but if if I had to right opportunity but I would guide somebody that comes to me what what I want to see okay yeah I don't have a mic but what would be the size of the third floor outdoor space how many seats you think it's not it's half it's not a it's not full size because the other half is for mechanical so what we came up with when I was with Ed and everything even like a per maybe some curtain RS out of glass that you don't have a view because you do have the brick walls but at least you can look up and I've been in Manhattan before you could have some Greenery on the greenhouse so I went to Manhattan they had no view it felt you felt like you're outside but you could open the pera you know even on a night and you're just like a rooftop garden but and the great thing is like I said there's no comments next to me B you know you wouldn't put music there but at least something you can eat out great great just you see them in hand everywhere else but not right I have a question um Mark is a great neighbor he's right next door to me on catch 19 and I think this is absolutely necessary for him to be able to Market it as a restaurant I've been looking at that darus building for a very very long time and I'd love to see something go in there but John I would like to correct you if the the letters are blue now oh so they I think they would be scared by being white again if they would consider bringing them back to Blue but everything else I agree with we have uh fur out walls on the inside of 19 very very thick brick brick walls I love that the outdoor space off the back of the building would be renovated because it needs it the building hasn't had anyone looking at it for so long this building absolutely needs all of these and I would love to see the nenant next door he gonna respond um I just want to ask if you mentioned something about outdoor music um and whether or not it's going to much I'm sorry say it again whether or not what outdoor music or entertainment if it's gonna abide by the um ordinance standards yeah I don't know if I would Supply the outdoor music I don't know if the town do something well we have like ordinance yeah no I wouldn't I wouldn't 10 or 11 at night it says that you can't have music if it's not closed after have the windows and doors closed yes we've been having a lot of issues with that corner or that area with noise complaints um from Neighbors from residents who live on the upper floors after a certain time yes after a certain yeah really we have no choice in it because it's the ordinance and it's the law we follow questions from the board I have a couple questions um can you just clarify for me um because I know you're parking professional also indicated that he's calling this a fine dining restaurant but it seems like it's a little bit of both there seems to be something that you are encouraging people to come after dinner to hang out at the bar hang out at their restaurant or is it a restaurant that closes at 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock no I'm not I'm not microphone Clos to you I'm saying when go to din I'm sorry you speak into the mic not saying to attract all the people that are after dinner to come there I'm saying when you do go to dinner two three hours and it happens to every couple you don't know you know I'm saying to stay there so what you could do is if you did have um a Supper Club theme just like the 40s and 50s you sit around round table maybe there's an act or there's a jazz or something you could eat there instead you know so if if you did want to have you know if we did have the liquor license you want to come for a cocktail you know have a small space so you don't it's not turns into a club what I'm saying is if you if my theory my my my you know vision is to sit enjoy dinner see a show and you don't have to leave in an hour and wonder where to go you can stay there so that's more of you know than just drawing people in from you know we have enough business just to you know to get this done without relying on people coming from elsewhere but it's something different that you're not just sitting at a dinner table you know you eat dinner you're getting pushed out because the next people maybe the show there's there sections maybe from 7 to 9: you know it's just it's just a concept but the main idea is to have fine dining little bit of alcohol but it would be nice to have not just a restaurant maybe something with a with with a jazz or or something with a piano something you could listen to and you're not getting kicked out you can stay there with the couple and enjoy the dinner and if it's BYOB in the beginning you could open your two three bottles and stay there nobody rushing out and you know what if people do come afterwards maybe there's no rule because you don't have to leave you know I don't know if it's an exact analog but at least with the piano as Mark was describing it I kind of think of the Molly Pure Bar Room a little bit you go there you can grab that hamburger or something to eat but when you're done you may be going to stay for a drink or two and listen to the piano in so it's not just eat pay the check and go is that the idea right right we're we're not a bar we people coming after dinner if they do fit if we allow it but my main goal was to just create something a little more fun than just going to dinner complaining about kids and L this you know it's just something to actually feel like you're in the 40s you're in Red Bank you know what make it make it feel like Ed was saying that that how the style the building is was the 20s 30s and 40s that maybe the restaurant doesn't theme that it does the Gatsby theme you get dressed up you come there go see the show and you stay you know and I'm not saying a show show I'm saying maybe a little stage whatever guy with these Jabs that you get from the city all these Manhattan know maybe it's helpful Also to clarify what it will not be so you're not coming in here saying it's G to be like a night club because as I said before the nightclubs the nightclubs I I've been in it that you know the nightclubs the bars the the fighting it all those businesses so I want as a landlord as well I want somebody to be there for 20 30 years I don't want a two-year operation people getting fed to the windows and cops because then the end of the day I get a B who did you rent to I can't believe you turn this town into I don't and like I said I'm five minutes down the road I'm here every night every day and I'm so anal about things and I want things perfect and you know for everyone to be happy to say wow that building as I said been abandoned for 12 years horrible it looks you know there was a bunch of buildings that were vacant now they're moving along and you know now that that block is waking up again and a lot of people think that oh you can't rent you know this you know Red Bank they can't rent their buildings no there was people holding these buildings as investors I'm not investor now just parking their money there leaving the building empty for three four years and when me my my brother purchased as well before I knew about the town I thought the town that block had a hard time renting and we both said you really would to buy building maybe they can't rent you then I found out the wheelchair is that a lot of these guys that have money and they purchased buildings pocked the money left it empty that gets me nervous I'm like you're making the town look abandoned and for people outside people coming in I moved here seven years my brother's been out there 20 years but when I first came here I thought it was having a rough time that said wow too it's horrible for the Thor that are there think the Block's going under but then I realized there's seven building MERS or buildings just sitting here vacant because they don't know what to do they leave it there they po their money S 3 years is I made so many movies so that's the whole wrong concept and I just feel we need this because I do get feedback from all the towns is it your intention to move forward with the renovations even if you didn't have a sign lease you would still commence well I'm not going to build something yeah I mean the inside so I have to do the elevator I have to do the shfs I want toare the building where the way it should be so outdated you know to make it handicap accessible staircase uh back entrances everything correct in for rooftop and the front facade yeah chis I just wanted to say I I cheer the idea of a nine o'clock spot my experience mon County go out to dinner between 5 and 7 even on Saturdays and by 9ine o' there's plenty of space in a lot of places be great to have another place to go downtown you ate somewhere else came to your place at 9 o' did something so I think it's great you kind of create an evening space I think there'll be room after the dinner hour because most people go out at a certain time a certain time and but like I said you attract the right you yeah you put it towards an old well they're here you just need a place to go yeah they're here place to go just to hang out and feel like wow it's it's a social event that you get there and it's the atmosphere you create if you make a bar in a club you're going to get the wrong people if you make it elegant classy people want to come back they want to feel comfortable B safe like I said 40 50 60 70 whatever age you are you go to you appreciate music just like the like that I had the vision of the tables with the lamp in the middle you're sitting there with three or four two couples watching jazz or mus on the stage or act and you get to stay there nobody's pushing you out okay any other questions from the board all right thanks I just like to clarify some points I heard you're planning to do the um Renovations regardless of whether or not you have a tenant right now well the renovation that I'm saying um with it it works with or without a tenant um because the way the building is structured now how Ed designed out as well there's a common Lobby uh hallway that you have to build with the elevator that Services the basement all the way up to the third so that could be built um as far as everything else the floors are there so pretty much Lobby elevator making everything up to Cod handicap accessible because even for any ten you have an elevator it helps okay because even if it's a something on the third if it's maybe it's a different use on the third I just want to clarify because sometimes we make our you know we approve projects and then they sit there because a landlord might not get a tenant oh yeah yeah and so then it languishes so this has to be done what I speak what I spoke about with the elevator and the L and everything else no matter what time it comes in okay most importantly the facade and the windows on the facade and the window it's it's it's I don't like I said before something looking abandoned it's it's and again you plan on just being the landlord you're not going to operate the restaurant so all this restaurant discussion is hypothetical right now yes hypothetical but if the right case is and I do have some restaurant people come to me and if they want me involved in which I wouldn't be that opposed to it because then I have the say and I have this Vision that I want to do for Leed bank and have more care than any stranger coming in from another state or you know so if the opportunity came to me I'm not saying I'm 100% against it but if is a great use or or great tenant came to me and I know they're really good background I would you know be the landlord owner but you know it's speaking it's not a set thing with the supper club I'm just giving an example what that block me right yeah so so all this discussion about hypo the type of restaurant right now is all hypothetical because you do not have a specific tenant that's all I wanted to clarify thank you may I ask another question sure go ahead you say that you need to put in the elevator of the Ada the main Electrical Plumbing Systems would you say that you need to put in a substantial buildout with many Electrical Plumbing elevator Etc to rent the SP corre thank you okay any other questions from the board for Mr s just one just for the record what would the hours of operation be just so we have it so the hours I mean I can't really tell you exactly hpal so I mean if it was lunch and dinner same as the other restaurants You' have to comply maybe 10 o'clock kitchen closed maybe it could be a breakfast and lunch that you can have get you know uh healthy food and and I mean like I said when you split that up if there is something you know with breakfast and lunch I wouldn't be opposed to that as well maybe close at 6 so it doesn't look that it's closed at night so I would push more the lunch in the dinner because where it is on the Block you really don't want to see something closed at five o'clock it's dark you know it's not a clothing store so if it's a restaurant I would try to push the L and but then again this is hypothetical so yeah so it would match similar restaurants that are there with the hours for exle simar hours forner okay any more questions from the board from Mr sa okay I'm sorry one more um the point that uh she brought up about the name did you agree that you'll do the name in a yeah so it's it's something now that uh last night taught me a lot Ed taught me a lot on history and how the building is we do want to keep it um that black and white Dean because that's what the that building is he'll explain to you what that building is he all um so yeah like the darus name would be fine I would just have to I would do it in Black not blue great that's great white so the darus is up there but at least it's black in black letters but the white with a black horning you know it's so it's still up there I know it means a lot your family works hard you know my father is multigeneration build you know you take pride we did communities landmark thank you okay I have any questions from the public for Mr s you come up no problem we just have you state your name and address for the record Cohen 28 Riverside Avenue red B all right good evening do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide to the exent without any would be the truth the best of your knowledge to help you guide it thank you um my question is about can my question is about the parking situation having business on Broad Street and I'm concerned about what my understanding is from from what I'm hearing is that we're going to have a variance we're parking the maximum amount of cars that would be available to any business is that something that I'm hearing because it's going to be a large kind of scale restaurant um if it's okay with you and okay with the board we have our planner and we have a traffic gu and they'll probably speak to it I don't want to um jump ahead but I think what you will hear U the traffic study was submitted previously and it it actually shows if you're going to have a fine dining type restaurant during the week you're G to uh weekday am and weekday PM you're going to have fewer trips to the building but then on the weekends it shows more trips at night so that would be time with a fine dining restaurant you're just speak the mic to find dining with restaurant is 100% that's what I'm looking to um I can't tell you that's kind of what I'm asking oh you I think what's more up in the air would be the type of Cuisine that's going to be served what's the theme how does it look but the proposal most certainly is to do fine dining primary food use with second if possible on the three floors with wine tasting type things and you certainly hear more on okay no more question from the public thank you Mr sa Mr and Sen you're next witht us thank you Mr chair I've got Ed O'Neal walking up sworn as an architect and planner give his credentials all right good evening if you could just state your name and business address please O'Neal Jr 65 Street and he swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide would be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide do thank you Mr O'Neal would you um review your credentials in the field of architecture and Li profession be with me a moment please yeah we have some new members but you probably haven't been in front of so um let's see I'm licensed as an architect and planner in the state of New Jersey um I've been licensed since 1987 I've been my firm has been in town for about 35 years we've done buildings downtown um I'm also the head of the architecture program atale Community College and been about 34 years I've been accepted by this board planning board and numerous boards throughout the county thank you Mr thank you Mr O'Neal just a couple foundational questions we get into your Tes you familiar with the subject property 21 Blood street yes I am have you worked on the property in the past Yes actually my firm worked on the property about years ago ago it was called afes yeah is a art selling um rather exotic artwork from Africa um and that we had done the renovation work them in think was 2001 and your firm prepared the plans that are before the board this evening I think the most recent update was marked in as a12 is that right that's correct you familiar with the Red Bank burrow ordinances and Red Bank master plan yes I am okay um you Orient the board to the second well again as was previously stated it's on the U guess you said the Northeast part of Broad Street sort of between mechanic and um West Front Street uh building is was built somewhere in the early 1920s we never been able to find out exactly the date uh but that seems to be the most accurate designation it's in What's called the style so it's different than many of its neighbors because it was again designed in the to where there was technological revolution in architecture and also um the desire to have a different aesthetic and that aesthetic curiously enough when some of the discussions we just heard was based on the development of jazz music as well as the development of structural steel construction uh so building has a very different look than say the building's a near that go back and again it's one of those funny things you look at the building next you realize about 40 years apart so it's a newer building it's not a 19th century building so the art M Turn Style has to be black and white Mr was explaining uh and it's really about the aesthetic is about motion and so the ribbon windows are really about motion and again into the artistic it's really placed with soln the more striking building in that so that's the long thin um glass windows on each floor which are incredibly striking if you're in build because it's an uninterrupted piece of glass that runs the whole building it's great Broad Street um it's very very unique and the ground floor is the same thing it's almost when you're in the building the street is almost on top of you and that was the style the style back in the 20 um would you discuss the proposed exterior improvements to the building yes make sure so the facade improvements which we've presented before the Red Bank VI committee Rivers Sor B committee and the HDC um the faade needs to be North but need to be repainted and resealed it will be in an historically acceptable color although it's going to be some form of white white isn't there's lots of whites so you know it will be white though um there will be the storefront door will be relocated slightly to the north and that has to do with the interior layout and so that storefront system will be replaced with something fairly similar to what's there um the third floor Windows which are kind of a bastardization of the original ribbon back how far back they put in individual most Double T Windows when they turn them into departments those will be removed and the windows will reflect what's on the second floor the um we are adding they're not really awnings they're really sunscreens so there's a very narrow maybe 4 in band that runs across the top of the second and third floor Windows which is about 3 feet deep and inside will be uh louvers and the louvers will block that Southwest Sun that BL into the building and that will um reduce some of the energy consumption of the building which is a part of the master plan um and also give a little bit of Shadow REM and on the first floor there's also an oring that that will lers because that's really keep the rain off your head as you're approaching the building but it will look just like the until you get underneath and look up uh the last part was um oh the pet Mr Anderson talked about in the new entryway the recess will be tiled with um whether it's the building number or something in and the applicant had agreed to abide the recommendations of the HPC with respect to the paint color palette the tile the interior plard and the DUIs uh wording at the top of the building which now the the board of course has Revisited to ask for differentiation yes all right would you um would you walk the board through the proposed interior Renovations space there's really three elements which Mr sa talked about that's what Mr Anderson there is an elevator the elevator that was in the building only went from the basement to the first floor so the building was not a line uh it also was in a very odd location we had designed that elevator when it was an AR it was used solely to move artwork from the basement and storage area to the first Flor so we that elevator is actually move um the new elevator will be located where the second and third floor are set so as Mr Anderson was saying the building if it's this big when you get to the third floor it's only half the size and so in that area that's now Ro that's within put and it's the location that allows each floor to be accessed by the elevator and it allows the each level to be accessed by the elevator if there were different tenants so the the whole point of this renovation at least as far as my office is concerned is to make the buildings flexible it's possible to attract different tencies because it's been empty for 12 years so that's why the elevator is put outside the building which is one of the thing that increases the F so I neily agree with the F calculations and the fact that they count that four times because you can only be on one level time down um but that's the way it's calculated that's way we did it the um other thing that's another Improvement is the second staircase in the back of the building only goes to the second floor and with the third floor being commercial use except residential use that it is it needs two means of eress so the two ways to get out of the Le emergency and so we're proposing to raise that stair the level to access the third floor so that's a life safety coding the last thing is that if the third floor is not going to be a commercial use if so permitted uh there are no bathrooms so we're adding a men's room women's room and that's all that total is up to 455 Square F feet which brings the F from 3.3 to 3.4 so the f as it presently stands is already in excess of what the ordinance would allow is that right yes I believe the ordinance allows 1.7 and it's already it's a pre-existing condition that we can't do anything that but again these life safety issues ADA compliance issues and the bathrooms which arguably are a plumbing issue um are really OV and you said the additional floor area ratio is about 455 square feet total right which comes out to A1 approximate increase and it's sort of tucked discreetly behind the front end of the third floor is that yeah that you won't be able to see any of these additions you will see if you look down the alley at Mechanic Street down the alley which is the service entrance you'll see that that wall will raise about 8 feet because that's where the stair it's rais to hit third Flo but other than that the other parts won't be Broad Street you wouldn't see it from West ront Street wouldn't see it no and panic Street El is very very utilitarian so it's not like anything's historically correct and it will be improved if you look at it it's it's not the the nicest part um planning in any way to increase the lot coverage on the site no aside from that 455 square foot addition which kind of extends the zero foot setb on the third floor there any proposal to alter or change any sets no the refuse will be proposed to be handled through that Alleyway you described when Mechanic Street is yes on the first floor there's a room behind the existing staircase which is a mechanical room that mechanical equipment and that will become the Refuge Recycling and that's about I think the distance between that door and the door that goes into the is about 30 feet and so that's where things will be put out in the alley which is about 7 feet wide and that's where trash will be picked up and then when the cans are put back you containers I should say put back definely brought back into that would all the refu hauling be done by private carding at the you know owner or tenants expense that's my understanding yes and is that refu plan largely consistent with what the board would have re reviewed and approved back in 2019 uh yes yes although I think ours is a little more ambitious because of the size um are there any new utility connections proposed you previously mentioned the site would be ADA Compliant whereas presently only the first FL was yes uh will all rooftop Mechanicals be screened from site yes the rooftop Mechanicals will be on the the other part of the roof from where the proposed out to our dining is so it's obviously the developers best interest to screen it off from where the dining or you know rooftop dining and it's surrounded on the other three sides by party walls party walls are firewalls that protect openings there's a small opening that can be seen if you really try hard from some of the private parking back right angle and that'll be screen also it's very very small eight or 10 feet would the site receive deliveries through that Alleyway that you mentioned as well yes especially now think the an aversion to bringing in deliveries through the front door I think that in a fine would you um would you review the variances connection with the application okay so let's if I start with the speed variances which um again went over a bit there's obviously the U is a setback variance because one of the neighbors has a residence it's a 10 foot setback but we already property line so we not a change in that is what it is the lot coverage we've spoken about the building is virtually 100% 65% is allowed so again no available adjacent be acquired toate that and that would really be I'll kind of get into this a little bit later but the only way way to do that would be not building down and I was recently in Atlanta and that's a place where they did that KN the buildings down to build surface no to speak into the mic a little bit more and knock the buildings down to build surface parking so what you have is you have a area that has no pedestrian connections at all that that's an extreme example but if you have a cohesive pedestrian environment build Road just takes advantage of that the only way you're going to maintain it is to keep the build at close proximity um so we're not proposing to change that the loading space is the loading space that it's always been since the 1920s and then parking what the strategy coming into the meeting and developing with u with my clients was if we're going to go for a parking variance why don't we say this would be the worst case but the entire building basement one two three is primary food what is the parking load and we come out to 143 spes now that doesn't mean that all those floors will be a restaurant it just gives the CL my client a little flexibility in trying to attract tenants to fill the building which again has been empty for 12 plus years so that is was the whole point is not to try to come in and say well if we this here and this here we can try to cut the number it's more to say look if we're trying to do this and somebody's willing to do it then this is the worst case scenario if somebody decides to go on the third floor and open up an architectural office then the number would drop but it can't raise or if the basement were solely devoted to storage and didn't accommodate any wine tasting and again it would drop so that was that was the General St strategy was not to try a peace meal to come to the board and say look this is what we're proposing this is as far as it's going to go it can only drop um and the floor area ratio Varian is that the testimony was that that's attributable to the elevator ho way third floor restrooms and second stairwell yes and it's all code required stuff and there's really no place else to put it I think Mr Savo in testifying really well it's not as much square footage as you think because when you really look at the building and look at how it's broken up and stack each floor is not that large the largest floor is the set is the first and that's where the kitchen would be the kitchen's going to be restrooms on every level level you have circulation you have it's it's three St three staircases in total um no but there's two but the one goes up but takes up a lot of space because it's a it's not a switch back stair it's rotation stair so you go up up so there's more and more circulation that's the stair there what about the existing stairwell at the street is it will that remain would there be three in total inclusive of that St um that's I think we're talking about the same stair I have question can you break down the floors from it in terms of square footage start with the basement then we'll go first second third so the gross floor calculations of the basement are 1571 Square F feet and just let me just let me stop you there so how many people do you suppose would fit down there or what's the occupany of the overall well limit in the basement it depends on what it's useful uh I know there was some testimony about of being a wine seller perhaps then usually the the usual the occupancy load based on building code is one person for 15 square feet so 100 downstairs I guess if you could make it work because it's not the only it's not the only issue there's the number and then there's the eress requirements which are the circulation you know when you have if you go into a restaurant and you have five tables spacing with those tables is based upon fireh hood and so the build code allows you to look at occupancy in two different ways and so until you really start to lay it out you don't exactly well what's the approxim well again if you're doing wine tasting and that includes wine storage what you do is you don't take the tire space you take how much would be not storage so that's just for argument say say it's it's a 1571 squ well let's say it's 1500 just because it's easier to Ma and 1,000 square feet storage now you be 500 square fet and if you divide that now we talking about 30 so again the practicality it's not just the math it's also right sort of how you fill the void with fixtures and equipment and table you know sorts of different so Maxim maximum maximum in the be 100 low end would be 30 is that fair to say if it was a wine tasting if it was not wine tasting it was just storage of wine goes down probably five yeah I mean there's been no testimony that it would just be storage so is is that the plan just St the plan as shown does depict a storage area and a wine storage area and that a smaller tasting area is that right Mr yes yes but again there's no P right so so this is be anywhere from as low as 20 or 30 up to as high as 100 Max roughly well I I would I would debate the 100 because I don't think fit the people okay you fit the people in they'd be no okay okay fair enough uh and how about the first one real Qui before we go to the first floor I just wanted to understand M jel when you gave the 1500 square feet um is that the entire basement or is that the area not inclusive of the storage so did you give us the entire so again I'm looking at it based on the the parking calculations you sure they didn't eliminate the storage and not count it because wouldn't be what What's the total floor plate floor plate is on the first floor is 3,393 what percentage do you lose for circulation and mechanical rule of thumb is about 20% that's all yeah and that's pure circulation as in erress pathways through dedicated corridors that doesn't include bathrooms because it goes up so you're going to lose 40% probably of of the second your microphone you want to move to the first floor then M Mr KAG think ask you to go kind of floor by floor oh okay I'm sorry um yeah again the four the the thing I'm sorry the reason I'm looking at this twice is because when you do F calculations parking calculations building calculations the numbers keep changing because of the manner in which you do them so I'm trying to be as accurate as I can to the question that SC Wasing so the first floor based on parking calculations is 3,393 sare which I think is what concern is at the so I'm using those you know just speaking to the mic ask answering your question the best yeah and is that that's inclusive of the footprint taken up by the stairwells the elevator both kitchen a trash room restrooms storage area janitors PL right because in parking calculations in the ordinance it's literally rectangle of the building taken from inside wall to inside wall right okay so I think uh my colleague Mr Haven said roughly 20% of the floor area on the first floor would be devoted to storage or well usually 20% is is to circulation not within space where the same SE okay so the first Flor you take the kitchen the kitchen is okay so okay so we're saying roughly another 2,000 we're saying 2,000 square feet of space restaurant space for customers to come say little less than 15 I think it's exactly 15 I think it's 1415 square feet if you take out all of the hallways kitchens toilets elevator stair wheell and your setback for your front entrance it's about 1,400 so it's half you only have half of that I don't think we show a host this area anything like that so you have some space to the tables and would that be also roughly 7500 people Max on the first floor probably somewhere in that vicinity okay and how about the second floor the second floor again is slightly smaller it's 3,2 28 sare ft 28 square ft and again that has the um you know again the staircase there's obviously when you're on multiple levels there are larger um posted stations or um sorry um waitress stations and waiter stations because the service has to be brought up sometimes it's a service bar depending on whether they end up but that's why Mr sa said that he envisioned that being the main uh on the second floor yeah because I had the square footage to accommodate it because the kitchen would be on first right so did would that second floor be over 2,000 square feet that would accommodate customers it could be in that vicinity yeah and then so that could potentially hold 200 people on the second floor well I think that really stretching yeah what's the total occupancy for the entire building if we were to assume that it was going to be built to your drugs whoops well again you can't really say all you can do is put a general number to yeah I mean approxim which is again 15 square feet but again it's a net number so you have to basically look at the building take out everything that's not SE not dining space and then put the number back okay I mean we're also presuming that if you have a six top that there six people at it you could have a six stop and there could be three people at it well I guess I'm confused because I mean designing an a restaurant you have no idea how many people you can accommodate approximately no because what we've done what we've done is we've designed the infrastructure to allow rest so the infrastructure we've designed is mandated so we're looking at what the code implications are to the building and say oh you have to have this many bathrooms you have to have these you have to have an elevator you have to have a and then when you look at that that's what's left is what you can use as di but since you don't know what the restaurant is you don't know what the menu is you don't know about any of that stuff you can't really design the see it what I've learned in in my time practicing is that the key to the restaurant is the menu because the menu dictates everything it sounds crazy but it does because that's how they prepare the food that's how you deliver the food that's how you serve the food it's about the menu and since there is no menu can't really be accurate tell you how many patrons could be in this place you also don't know whether uh one of the tenant will have all three floor all four floors three floors two floors one floor because it it has the ability based on the way we've designed it to have up to four tenant which could have completely different types of places because again that's the flexibility required based on the history of the building being empty for so but back to the basics given the size of the second floor taking 40% off for bathroom circulation elevator staircase everything else you got to put in there stations bus Bo stations you're left with about 1,800 feet which is certainly not going to be it's barely 100 people are it's not going to be 200 so your foot approximation very but it could be 1800 I wouldn't I wouldn't want so some something that would be helpful for me and perhaps the board can you just talk really quickly you're talking about a building occupancy like a from a code perspective not a zoning code building code or a fire code right procedurally do I understand that you have to present your actual layout with your tables and your seating and your circulation Fire Marshals can assign that number to you absolutely absolutely so we're not number just a an open Flor plan with no tables no chairs no there won't be a number issued until the layout is presented and then 10 the clim my case would have to ad them they can't just technically they can't add 20 more days that's when the fire Marsh comes in and shut you down okay can we go on to the third floor the square footage that would be allow based on your drawings and again the third floor is 1567 it's basically the size of the basement trying but structurally it goes all the way up the twostory part two okay and then let's just back up a little bit you had said that there could be potentially four different tenants can you just explain what you're talking about there well in other words the the the circulation is done you could isolate each floor by entering into a common accessway that would go out there front door remember there's two front doors in building so you could first floor could be a ten second floor could be a ten third floor could be a tenant I don't really think the basement could be a tenant but so in other words if you wanted to you could have a restaurant on the first and second floor andal L on the third they could circulate without interfering right but aren't we coming for the variance to change it to an 11,000 foot restaurant isn't that what the variance is for so they want the flexibility to be able to have a restaurant that covers all floors and that's the target audience but if you found that the market would only allow for a twostory restaurant because everyone says man three stories that' be nice but it's I'm biting off more than I can chew then you could theoretically if you had a great restaurant that you wanted to rent to you rent them the first and second floor and the basement for storage got their storage their kitchen their main dining on the second floor you got a third floor left over maybe that becomes some other use that's permitted in the zone like an office it would have a lower parking requirement than what we're presenting to you so it wouldn't be a higher parking your requirement where we'd coming be coming back to again okay okay and then the square footage on the roof the top D yeah 8 and of that roughly 20% set aside for storage yeah storage circulation things like that there's again waitress weer station okay any other questions from the board yes in designing the framework for this hypothetical restaurant the kitchen's on the first floor how is the food going to get up to the third floor is that typical in a restaurant it's not it's not preferred but in urban areas where restaurant or PLS are relatively small to okay I I was just wondering I know some restaurants that have dumb waiters but I didn't see one in in the plan no and I think if there was a dumb waiter if that was decided to be done would be done within foot because dumb waiters are much small so if they use the stairwell which stairwell would they use the one in the back yeah because the one in the front is is going to be the main circulation stairwell the one in the back is only going to be used really as an emergency erress or for staff it seems problematic if you're trying to bring food up to the third floor though from the first I agree I agree but it's done when uh we did Ed through the five Road Tre had basement of second floor I said the same thing Char similar as well they have storage in the basement kitchen on the first floor with some dining service but overflow dining on the second they don't have an elevator so again seems most crazy but it is done you want to continue with your other stuff yeah I was I was about to ask you Mr Oro would you review the standards for uh the granting of each of the requested variances the C variances and then the D Varan okay well the D Varian is for the cafe or and so um what I've looked at is the positive criteria um regarding the the variants um and I kind of uh keed it into Municipal before you even review sort of the positive or the negative just kind of taking a step back it's a very experienced board but from a legal perspective would be accurate on the D variant to say you're looking to make certain on the positive end that the site can accommodate um any um you say the site can accommodate the problems with the additional f is that the stand positive end yes and at the F requirements well the the reason for the F increase are building life safety and accessibility requirements and that's without going through this list that I've made which I'm sure thrilled to listen to um we can say that in somewhat of a blanket statement and there is you know in some respects there is what I would consider to be a hardship also which is that requirements that are imposed upon the building can't be done any other way except to expand the stairway up and put the elevator in and so there's really no other way to solve the problem so I can that some being hard because of the existing context one thing that Dawns upon me is that you have a three-story building but the third floor is not as large as the floors below it creating an existing flat roof much away from site in which to locate the F say that that would support the fact that the site can accommodate that additional F not making any larger apparent massing of the structure right it would not as we testified for the additions won't be visible from anywhere unless you're literally on De all right and with all the variances we'll review the the negative criteria but how about just the legal standard not yet your proofs but the actual standard that we have to meet in order to uh receive a parking variant in order to receive that setback variance that we well again it really has to do with K Zone plan and the the existing master plan allow for the accommodation and with the improvements we're making reinforce those that in plan I think they definitely do so when we look at the master plan and we look at the goals and objectives it talks about you know the renovation of building that maintaining distinctive arit it talks about um Red Bank being connected so try to establish a strong cohesive downtown area that preserves the the disate character of individual business districts which this definitely does um also about balance inra a smart gr mentality tared in development that minimizes unwanted negative impacts and again the part that's being improved is not visible and again it makes the building universally um accommodated because of the Ada requir for safe the other balanced is recognizing red bank's historic and cultural resources so that they remain a vital part of the community for years to come again they're renovating and restoring the building so to me that needs all of the aspects and the last aspect is what they call prepared which is take steps to mitigate and adapt to the impacts of climate change and enhance long-term environmental sustainability and the building has been G and again completely legally I mean that been demolition perm and everything were issued and so all of the insulation will be increased the windows will be more energy efficient the sunscreening efficient the new units will be higher um levels of sustainability because they'll be more efficient so all of those things are occurring which will basically enhance the problems that we're provisioning climate chain specific to the F variant the testimony was that it the site accommodates the additional F because it can be discreetly tucked by a third story um how about on the negative end is there any way in which that additional 455 Square ft on the third story have any detrial impact public food or the Zone land of Zone ordinance no because again there's no impact on the neighbors there's no impact on the downtown character because again whatever improvements we're making that can't be seen um the building by being renovated having a third floor have a rid window will actually complete putting the building back to it's original art M design style um and again the bar accessibility is about Universal accent it's a big issue and I think it's a great issue but you know if name van and I go to the building why would an is you know has a you know a disability why should we have different doors that's just wrong and that's the way it works in a lot of old buildings because it do not um they w't go to accommodate this will be so I think that's always very positive let's um let's focus on the setback variance C variants you said that we're already a zero foot setback to our neighbors North is that right yes we're proposed to continue it Al be it along the extended line at the third floor this elevator oy located yes and and you two bathroom um specific to that variance that's an existing condition yes really being exacerbated in any way no and again that's the way the buildings are built they're built to have common firewalls between them so this wouldn't have any effect on building next door you're not going to interfere with the light air and open space of any of the residential nigh all solid Mason walls because they're solid masonary walls you're not going to have any arle noise intrusion intrusion that's going to disturb the quality of life no and some of these walls are one and two feet thick talk about the parking variants the board was kind enough to to Grant the prior application and 88 space parking variants um and at the time they made some findings of fact I quote from the resolution a16 page 12 um some of the things that they were talking about was the availability of off street parking in the area of the applicant facility would that continue to be true now in 2024 absolutely um you know there's there's parking within a block or two in whole directions and so what the the impact of the traffic report that Mr fine did said that see that being unsubstantial any I'm sorry speaking of the mic there wouldn't be really any negative impact you have an aerial photo with you do you have extra copies if we could pass around the Mr Kennedy I think we were up to A7 if I'm not mistaken all right A7 and what is A7 aial photograph from Google maps of the subject property and the areas than utilizing A7 of the better known there's oneic street where the side entry is which is a block walk away there's is that what people would refer to as the east side Lot yes the East Side lot and then obviously on the West Side English Plaza and and then obviously the one on Mechanic links to the one and then um sort of out of frame would be Marine Park understanding that there's a proposal to change the layout of marine park to move the parking further up the hill and move the Green Space further down the hill yes so the area there used to be the clay tennis courts the area that's us I think is a great idea and then the parking lot that's down by the water would be so that would make it another probably two blocks closer to downtown also have the hospitals Globe Court garage and Globe Court surface slot close proximity yes that's on the other side of Mechanic Street um it's fair to say that the site is literally rained by public parking yes yes some of the other findings that were um made by the board back in 2019 were that many similar downtown establishments in the CCB Zone including primary food service and primary establishments do not necessarily have sufficient let alone any off street parking on site I don't believe any of them do and again the whole idea of the FL walk was to take advantage of um there's some discussion also on page 12 of that resolution about how the Peak parking demands would be uh nighttime where it might not compete with some of the other daytime in retail or office or other establishments based upon the testimony of the applicant that the primary service would be intend to be dinner service would that still be true yes um we don't have any parking on the site never did is there any way to get any parking on the site without demolishing the build no or demol demolishing I'm sorry the mic's not pick no demolition of this building for any of the neighboring buildings again has discussed before that would destroy downtown SC which is directly odds with an are we ringed on three sides by exis fully developed sites occupied almost entirely by yeah well actually if you take the alley away the ring D being Broad Street with right Municipal right away exactly there no ability to truck is come [Music] down I want to talk to you about some of the board's findings back from 2019 about of the um the vacancy right at that point in time it was 10 or so years now we've testified it's been yeah some of the findings at that point in time presence of vacant buildings on downtown commercial District does not promote the commercial interest or economic stability of the municipality that be can continue to be true today certainly I that was the whole reason for creating River Center and streetcape on Broad Street enough to thisen the mic if we're old enough to remember dead Bank days that's why all those initiatives were done I am previously found that full occupancy and utilization of the building particularly the building in the heart of the downtown commercial area will be beneficial to the Bur of Red Bank that continue to be absolutely full occupancy and utilization should help other area businesses as well is that continue absolutely occupancy will promote economic strength attract pedestrian Shoppers and patrons for other existing recognize the um inate challenges for retail uses today's sort of Amazon type environment does that continue to be true yeah that's a national talked about histor board found on page 17 that the renovation would allow for an aging structure to remain remain intact it's legitimate development planning role is that still true yes and that's in not only the master plan but land Municipal Landing SL any um any perceived public detriment for impairment with the Zone plan or Zone ordinance with respect to any of the three variances presented would no not my opinion um I would open up question any questions from the board I have a quick one just uh on the floor area ratio and I reading this right that the current floor area is 3.3 which is already almost twice the allowed and you're proposing to go to 3.4 so it's very small increase exactly thank you and again not the be to Dead Horse but those are all mandated by building would you mind if I just went through some items of the letter that needed testimony I promise I'll be brief that' be great um you have our our letter dated May 15th we could just turn do and just kind to go through that on the list um page three uh item 2.3 it looks like there is an elevation change since you're relocating the front door um we just want to make sure that You' considered the elevation change and you're designing it for it will be we would have to do a survey to get an exact inch but it's fair I'm pretty confident to okay good um this may be more of a shaa question but it looks like there's the canopy extends in the right of way in the past the burrow required a lease agreement for canopies in the right of way if that is required would you be opposed to that no we assume that um put me to the test because I looked through the ordinance I was in my head the highlands ordinance which says you can have um an encroachment into the public right away for awnings or canopies as long as it's at least seven and a half feet in height you have to have this somewhere in there I couldn't find it but I did see you allow some projecting signs to a certain extent so it's not unheard of and just trying to think you have garmy and you have Robinson's and you have jar and you have a bunch of them where they do have fixed awnings and things that encroach significant there's a method to a method for them um just going back to the refuse area I know this is all hypothetical but are you confident that the area that you've designed um is enough space to for all these uses or any of these uses yes no I'm confident we've done a few restaurants where the refug area and it's been F so I said well it's bigger than those so they thank you um any changes any changes to lighting or are you the person to ask about any proposed lighting at the moment um there are certain building requirements from just trying to erress through the door there's enough into a dark area but um at the moment say we you know we we still don't have signage in front of you so we're either obviously we'll either design conforming signage that can be approved without coming back to or if there was something particular about that signage or the method ofation presumably and are there any are there any issues right now with drainage that you're going to correct if they do exist we don't see any any issues whole the the roof areas are light to the street so we would if there was a problem that's all I have Jo thank you anybody else from the board questions Mr I have a couple questions okay Mr O'Neal the um talk about I just want to talk about the 143 parking spaces that's required um how many parking spaces did the town lose because of broadwalk well why don't you tell me how long is broadwalk open for to to you know it's closed on the 11th of May and I believe it's closed September by ordinance at this point right about five months May June July August September right May June July August September 30th September 30th September 30p 30 that's what ordin right so how many spots parking spots at the Town lose but it's the entire length of the broadwalk yes I don't know honestly um fair to say it's more than 50 oh no it's not stre Street I don't know say maybe yeah maybe 20 these are parallel they're probably larger than 18t yeah they're 22 22 because I could put a dumpster in it yeah so maybe there's think one the corners too AR those Corners aren't spots right and neither the other the corner on Mechanic that's not bump out too the parking the parking spot in front of this building is a half spot like this you know it doesn't at 21 that's where the parking begins also a curbing B PP out in front of Robinson's which is enormous it's it's not very many parking spaces the in the postco issue and I can speak to post postco the whole design of broadwalk because we're not any more concerned about being outside and social distancing the design was to keep the town vibrant and active in a time of the year where it's traditionally Los its business to the shore towns like Asbury Park and Long Branch so when you're losing that parking it's in a time of year that we're slower as opposed to the fall winter which is our busier SE um M Mr Klein the 143 um spots that you're missing from your restaurant um are you familiar with Wallace Street oh Mr so you can ask him questions that's not okay I'm sorry I forgot your last name that's okay we were looking at the map earlier um so there's Wallace Street which is where broadwalk starts right and then if you make the traffic is street but the turn Street oning traffic heading you can make the left on White Street it was int either a right on Wallace or a left on way is that right okay so is there going to be a detriment to the residents right Wallace Street is a residential neighborhood isn't it is there a detriment to those residents by virtue of the fact you have lack of 143 parking resp for this restaurant you consider resents side lots are situated clast let me ask you do you find the East Side lots available on Saturday nights in redond for an extra 143 spots I find EX matter fact that's where I always go as opposed to and when you go do you see 140 spots that's AV on the side last I think the 143 is an overstatement because the building's going to be devoted to some use it already received a parking variance for 88 spaces as it was for the hybrid jazz type Club so yes we need 143 spots but you have to think about what the Delta is what are we coming back to you asking for but it's not 143 that we're asking for you're asking for an additional 6 or so yes okay 55 well do you think it's a detriment for the residence of Street to have an extra 60 cars circling the raw Street neighborhood looking for parking no because I don't think that's what happen and are we going to hear testimony about the traffic there no further questions this are there any further questions from the board for mr' close that any questions from the public for Mr O'Neal close that I'm to your next witness and and all of our witnesses will remain sworn if there's something that's appropriately addressed the no to certainly come back and ask anything sure thank you thank you m sh thank you something that um that me that just wanted to mention U what you do have since 19 is you have a very active theater that now has two theaters more shows so you have potentially more people coming to town anyway for an entertainment use not everybody that's coming to town is Coming to Town uniquely to see us they're going to be coming to town to go to a theater and presuma they may want to get a meal beforehand and we might just be one of many options if we weren't there they might still be coming into elsewhere with that show or just so we're trying to be part of a vibrant use mix where people go to multiple locations on one visit and not just come specifically to us Mr kle all right good evening if you could just state your name and business address Le middle initial D is and Daniel kle kle i f traffic Consulting principal 156 Walker Road and welcome if you could just raise your right hand do you swear that the information and testimony you're about to provide will be the truth the best your knowledge to help you guide I do and for the record you're testifying tonight in Your Capacity as a licensed professional traffic operations engineer and professional thank you Mr P would you briefly put your credentials on Sir I've got a Bachelor of Science and civil engineering from rers University I'm a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey dep good standing I'm also a nationally certified professional traffic operations engineer before well over probably now I been sto counting over 150 to 200 boards throughout New Jersey accepted as an expert in traffic engineering mark thank you Mr so I I prepared a traffic engineering or I'm sorry trip generation calculation and a parking generation calculation dated April 1st 2024 and that's exhibit 86 of and in that I prepared two tables I prepared a table of trip generation which is table one and we looked at the previous uses or previously approved uses of the of existing property a small office of 5900 Square F feet strip retail Plaza 3900 square feet and a drinking place and these and that was 4,000 these are categories that are in The Institute of Transportation trip gener 11th Edition and we use that to calculate the morning week morning peak hour trips evening peak hour trips and Saturday peak hour trips that was the the office was intended to reflect the last approval for the second and third floor correct the strip retail Plaza was intended to reflect the last approval for the first floor and the drinking place was intended to reflect the last approval for the jazz club in the basement that's and then we looked at a fine dining restaurant which is also a man Ed category in it trip generation attend ,2 actually at the time I had 10,847 sare ft and then we compare the trip generation of the two uses and during the weekday morning peak hour and the weekday PM peak hour there would actually be more trips generated by the previous approval of the small office retail and the drinking establishment that it would be for the fine dining so trip generation calculations show that it would actually be a decrease in the morning peak hour 12 trips per hour 15 trip decrease in a PM peak hour and an increase of about 50 trips during Saturday peak hour now before we get to the increase on the decrease is that um largely attributable to the fact that there's not proposed to be office there's not proposed to be that vendor Market that would presumably attract more people during the daytime correct yes also during a um I guess a weekday PM Peak as well some of those used might still attract people with correct yeah now would you were I'm sorry to interrup okaying the Saturday Peak right and then during the Saturday peak hour the fine dining restaurant is going to generate 50 more trips during the Saturday peak hour and then because there is no parking on site normally for a traffic study you talk about the driveway trips that increase of 50 vehicles in versus what previous because there's no driveway these trips are going to be distributed around the parking areas that are that were mentioned earlier by Mr O'Neal so some people like Mr Anderson said some people might come park on the east side Lot come to the restaurant hang out for a while as Mr sa said and then leave in 10:30 11 o'cl others may come a little early Park wherever maybe the White Street lot then come to the restaurant then go to the C Bas SE for a show and leave so traffic will be generated but it'll be spread out all over redb specifically um and it's really sort of like um a large sort of outdoor mall where people would come go to the food court go to a movie go shopping whatever it ends up being distributed throughout Red Bank then we also looked at um the parking calculations and as was stated before uh we've got office I used 59 00 sare fet of the previous use um 3900 Square F feet of retail supermarkets grocery stores that's the category in Red Bank uh primary liquor service establishments of 4,000 square F feet and the parking requirement for that prior use was 80 parking spaces and then based on 10,224 which is the revised number I was given we're looking at 143 parking spaces required for a Delta or an increase of 55 parking spaces um that's we're looking at again distributed throughout Red Bank East Side West Side all around the town uh of of parking for the use so we're not looking at a concentration in one particular location we're Distributing that throughout the town throughout the burrow are these trips strictly vehicular trips could they be you know pedestrian foot traffic from adjacent apartment uses Mechanic Street that's true that's true as well there are plenty of Apartments within the area so some people may already live here have already parked their car walk to the restaurant walk over to a show have come from shopping at a store on the street and then go to dinner so again it'sing throughout the evening throughout the day throughout one that occurs to me is that our certified list for this hearing was absolutely insanely large and I'm thinking how could we have to notice many people this is can cause abune and the reason was we not only have the project that was built on the Dorne site that's been there for quite some time now but now we also have a a cion building recently built on meic street I think we may have picked up some of the apartments over the former Rockies barber shop and what we didn't yet get to is the project that's been approved by this board on the former office use behind us that's also proposed to be residential unit we very much like those people to come and patronize us and to do so without driving to them sorry yeah so that I think that's really it t so just looking at like the the overall conclus Jin number one you use the it trip generation data is that a reliable Treatise recognized in youri yes that's what Traffic Engineers rely on um and you endeavored to utilize uh use categories that were um accurately reflective of what was previously approved and accurately refective of what we're asking for that's correct and your testimony is that am uh week Peak amm weekday Peak we're actually gonna have a net decrease in trips to the site that's correct and that on a hour on a Saturday would be the only time we would experience an increase in traffic roxim 50 trips uh in a peak hour on a Saturday correct let's define a trip sure trip uh you know just somebody coming or is it somebody coming and going it's to break it down there's a number of trips coming in number of trips coming out adds up to 50 so it's 34 entering and then 16 leaving during that same Peak out so it's not 50 people coming no correct it's it's in and out and then the Institute Transportation Engineers is as well as the NJ doot Define a significant increase in traffic as 100 or more peak hour trips so because we've got 50 we not significant in there it be any impact on the level of service for local Road roads under your analysis not in my opinion because again could be distributed throughout the burrow and is that also based upon the number of trips in comparison to what the do uh says would be a substantial impact correct yeah even if all 50 trips were at one in section would be significant I would open it up to the any questions from board just for understanding your Char indicating there 50 additional trips on Saturday and 50 Less on weekdays what about Friday it seems like Friday would be busy also right the trip generation numbers are not broken down by U day of the week so we just have a typical week and then we have Saturday so it could be Friday there being it could be I mean um just to put on the record the number of trips for the restaurant we're looking at 85 at a weekday PM hour so that could be a weekday that could be a Friday or Saturday I'm sorry Friday thank you I have a question how does the valet is there any credit for the valet given that we have that all I think it's Thursday nights Thursday nights Friday night Saturday nights we have valet stand right front of all of our buildings is that calculated as a credit somehow no it would still be a trip coming year okay and in this case be on Broad Street because Broad Street would be closed but yeah Ian still be trip year October through very early May if I mean certainly if we could participate in a shared ballet service like what was being used by catch and Char and all those restaurants believe it's still active it's on front it's up on front when when broad Street's open I think it's pretty active that I have to conc I haven't been downtown as much since I had kids as much but that's good to know yes we we would certainly try to take of it advantage of a shared valet type system which presumably could direct people to parking spots and then it would be on the valet to find those spots they could make arrangements to utilize lots that are otherwise right put those cars in because they're going to profit CH uh how many parking spaces are there in this region if you count all the way to bonacera on Maple well that's just for that restaurant but if you count the public loss and everything that's shown here I don't have a number on that uh it looks like over 800 not sure probably I was say over 5,000 but that sounds High yeah tremendous for sure you know do you know what it's yeah I'm very familiar with parking in Downtown had back and grateful to my parking sticker for this service and the parking is a challenge in Red banks sometimes on Thursday evening for three hours Friday and Saturday for several more hours so it's probably 10 12 hours a week good weather when it gets tough would think does that make sense certainly not Tuesday night or 10 it's not the case 10 p.m on Saturday night from my discussions with restaurant tours they would very much like to take other nights of the week that are not as heavily trafficked or or traveled and make those monetize those as well because it becomes hard to get by on those peak hours on a Friday or a Saturday you have to sustain a business the whole rest of the week you have to pay people and keep employees so yeah I mean it as a goal for the whole town and for all the restaurants I think they'd love to spread it out but that hasn't yet necessarily been the case okay any other questions from the board I have some questions and before I forget uh Mr O'Neal Mr Mr O'Neil on the back I did have a couple more questions for you if you can just clarify and then I'll come to m um do you know how many parking spaces um would would it uh would you require if you didn't have the restaurant on the roof and the third floor you know if you weren't converting that third and roof what with the variance I didn't bring give onover yeah that's good yeah something that I think also has to be born in mind while Mr O'Neal's looking at his plans is um we're somewhat hemmed in as a site because we're going to have another restaurant to the left of us um when you're talking about broadwalk people have really expanded their breath they go and they're able without coming to you for Varian relief to get many many many many outdoor tables some of them if they don't have other restaurants next to them could take up a whole block um I'm thinking maybe patricius for instance they patus front of Jack's music with my family's blessing they do in front of Chase Bank and none of those spots um are ever something that's an item of discussion for you when you're looking at our site we can't spread any further to uh the north because we're going to have a new Italian restaurant right next to us that presumably is going to want to do their own tables outside there's a very limited spread to South because there's only one commercial building there before you hit Mechanic Street where Char already Stables so and looking at the overall picture what we may not be accounting for is a lot of our peers are able to grab a ton of extra seats in the public street that we we can't necessarily monetize or cash in on hence the roof would be nice to be able to offer some about to D yeah I mean there's also many businesses on White Street who have zero benefit of the is that fair to say I wouldn't say it's zero there's probably gota be some over effect from broadwalk to help all the businesses in the area yeah I mean I understand your point that you may not have as many outdoor tables on broadwalk as some of your neighbors but there are many businesses in town who don't have any participation right so I mean there's there's opportunities to do the parklets outside Ian I know it's not as as optimal or ideal and they might be a little bit constrained or confined but that is something that for pay they can pay the burrow have a par okay sidewalk time Mr CL do you know how many parking variances I'm sorry number of Park the parking variance number if you didn't have restaurant on Third and the on our calculations say that the third floor would at check would have a parking barment of 28 28 and the other one was the roof did that add to the parking department so third floor and parking adds another 28 okay and then my last comment we didn't talk about the loading zone where's the loading zone for this 11,000 foot restaurant on Mechanic stream it's on Mechanic yes a designated spot it's a designated area that's been there since the 20s is that you're talking about right in front of the fire department it's next to a painted yellow curb sign for on the Char side no I believe it's on the opposite side and it's outside of the painted lines for the fire trucks to come in and out okay all right great thanks that was my last twoo and I just had some questions about the traffic yeah so my concern is I want you to are you familiar with Wallace Street a little bit yeah sure so when when cars are approaching broadwalk when they're approaching the balls they can make a right on Wallace or they can make a left on White Street so are you concerned at all with the uh additional traffic heading down Wallace Street which I actually call The Wallace Street Raceway so are you concerned at all with this additional lack of parking and traffic generated for the residence not talking businesses the residence of that historic residential district not at all because the the number of Trips Again distributed throughout the streets to get where we've got to get to which is really parking think of it is the the restaurant is going to generate parking at parking lots not at the restaurant itself but you're coming Northbound 25% of the 50 additional bars you make it right onto onto Wallace not even 25% were coming from all four directions half of them might so 12 and a half% of them might turn right on Wallace like six additional cards in an hour and having turned right on to Wallace they a parking lot well they come to two decisions you can go right into a parking lot or left into a parking well which are these right they wouldn't have to go all the way down or you can continue past the parking lot which I observe quite frankly uh on a daily basis and where they park in front of the residences homes you all see that I don't know why they would go further beyond the parking Lots because there the parking lots are full right so where would they Park if the parking lots were full they would continue into the residential area Town drive around the town drive around the neighborhoods looking for parking okay it were a major concern I suppose the bur would have the ability to convert those sections of Wall Street into resident permit parking there is resident permit parking there well there's permit parking there so then the general public camp park wants but they did that's what happens and you're not surprised by that right people Park at's it's hard for us to control how people abide or fail to abide the law when they're not on our property frankly they're not even two within 200 ft of our some other portion right okay okay any other questions just just one question Wonder micophone you might know this um parking requirements like this for this kind of space how old are these requirements when were these written in New Jersey 50 years ago 70 years ago want to hear my my cynical side on I'd like to yeah because the parking thing is big issue in America now with no offense intended to anyone who is a municipal engineer um parking requirements for buildings that don't have surface parking lots seem um a little odd they do generate variances they do generate applications to boards and they do generate revenue for engineering I my question sometimes whether the parking requirements are Justified at all um Mr O'Neal could probably speak to more modern planning thoughts on parking in downtown environments but place the onus on building owners who have no ability to provide the parking when the burrow has a monopoly on the parking seems OD and and thank you for your opinion but I I'll just GNA send and in defense of my good friend Jackie she enforces the ordinances are on the book She's Not Elected mayor She's Not Elected councel so she can't change it if she wants to but but you can relay your comments to the to our friends on the governing body and I it's not intended as a not I have a lot of respect for what you and Mr Herman do here before this boards on a number of occasions and it would not suggesting that you were the ones that even wrote as a profession sometimes having setbacks in a setback requirement in areas where the lots are all fully developed and built out to lot lines or having a big huge parking requirement and nobody has parking lots it's a little a little odd for the CCD to have a requirement like that but we're here and we're talking about it and having a dialogue can I ask if if you had a 143 is an exaggerated number of course the way you said it's the maximum number based on somebody's calculation per foot from decades ago but if you had 143 foot lot near this how many hours a week would it be full four would even be full yeah I mean typically really thought for a restaurant like one parking space for every three seats yeah you're talking about 450 seats it's just so so something that's also interesting I think noteworthy and Mr O'Neal could maybe review it in more depth the way that your parking requirement is structured for restaurants it's not a one siiz fits all thing it varies depending on the square footage of the restaurant so once you hit a certain threshold you might go for instance from okay well if you had a small restaurant that was less than a th000 square feet you're required to have six uh spaces per 1,00 square fet of GFA when you go to uh 1,000 to 5,000 square feet maybe a moderate size restaurant you're required to have 10 spaces for 1,000 sare ft of GFA when you hit our category of over 5,000 square fet the requirement is at 14 spaces per 1,000 GFA so the fact that we're larger ignoring how much kitchen space we have ignoring all these other things we now have a four per th larger requirement than a pier that's 4,999 square feet for instance doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to have fewer patrons than we're going to have or be less busy and it probably wouldn't be differentiated that way in the it correct yeah it's not differentiated by the size of restaurant it's typically square footage thousand square feet or seats but I do I do want to acknowledge the concern of my colleague because that is the issue several hours a week when red when CR is popping which is 30 days a year 30 40 nights a year actually it is kind of a mess in the residential neighbor is just east of that area that's a continuing concern here because that it does bring a lot of people here for brief periods of time for some nights of the year I don't needan to minimize that but I still have my thoughts about dep parment requirements in this country than here are any restaurants in Red Bank fully compliant with this maybe B aara with their lot but is anybody got parking that isn't adjacent in the public what I challenge anyone to find a restaurant that has full parking in it bonus even close to their re with that block right so and and they only lease that so that leas could be up at any time but they're still going to be operating oh yes at the risk of making enemies which I don't want to do because I love the institution and everyone that runs it um I would give you the example of the count basic theater enormous two theaters teaching rooms just massive building have any parking if they do it's it's inconsequential but yet they function they bring people in and the people spend money and they fill the Burrows coffers with the parking revenue and they presumably patronize the restaurants and I think most people would prefer to have the count basy there than to not sure would okay no further questions from the board any questions any comments from the public any comments from the board okay we'll close all of that would anybody like to make a motion to approve or deny this application i' like to do a motion to approve I'd like to motion to second and now just for the record we either recite the conditions or we say all the conditions that we discussed if you okay real quickly so we talked about well the compliance with all the promises commitments and representations that team made uh compliance with all affordable housing rules and regulations do they need an affordable housing plan shaa no okay so whatever the regulations compliance with the tnm associates review memorandum compliance with all outside approvals uh and with the caveat if the uh application or requested relief materially changes as a result of those outside approvals you may need to come back uh as a primary food establishment Sean I'm thinking they have to get something from the Board of Health yes okay and uh John as you alluded to uh obviously this board does not give any lior license approval so you have to get that from the bur whether that's whatever type of liquor license or BYOB this is not you know just because you said it here you can't get the approval here you have to get that um let's see there's usually a 24mon time frame sh F fun from when the resolution is adopted to to get the permits um compliance with the HPC memo and the River Center memo and we'll get that little bit and and if any of the motion or and second or have any issues say no uh so we're having um painting in the historic uh color uh tiled entryway uh with maybe the street address inserted there on uh the plaque interior uh describing the history and the Daris now first we were going to say uh not obscured but then we changed it to having it black and uh let's see we had um compliance with Ada and building coverage regulations municipal fire sub code official uh private garbage collection and and John they usually say with an obligation to have it more frequently if that's necessary certainly and and and we will tail out of the street the alley and pulled in after there okay Vince you're gonna have to help me read my writing tomorrow uh we have um now uh shaa you had said something about entertainment and music uh do I just say the any entertainment live music is just they have to comply with Municipal ordinances yes okay so I'm not saying any specific hour or anything okay and uh Jackie in the prior uh the 2017 approval they talked about paying a water vulnerability fee is that still a requirement yes all right and water sewer connection fees yes okay and they had a shade threee commission fee a maximum occupancy per the prevailing building code requirements um now John just quick question if if you get the approval and this appeal period successfully expires are you abandoning the prior use it's a good question I mean have to look at your hierarchy of uses because there's like this odd ladder where if you're moving to like a less intense use from a more intense use without coming so for instance if a restaurant did take basement for Flor second floor and then that left the third floor for like an office or an apartment or something like that I know that we need to come back all right so we we'll we'll talk about that and then we have with the lobby and the elevator and the ABC I guess Vince here was that work is being done regardless of even though the no tenant has been identified and um we have um all right Gus the black and white uh Gus in Black uh the recessed Entry Way will be tiled for the HBC uh paint the historic color palette and we had um rooftop Mechanicals to be screened valet service yes I think we would Endeavor in good faith to do the shared Val so we're going to have let's see uh comply with tnm signage comply with prevailing regulations or you come back uh the canop be extended into right away provided you get permission from the burrow or license from the burrow obviously we can't give you that um uh I think Jackie you had said um all roof areas are are are fine right now but if if there's drainage issues they would need to be corrected and we have getting to the end Mr chairman uh what are we having a good faith effort to utilize the shared valet program attempt to use that to minimize any adverse parking impact and anything else we said tonight you said it it counts um but that was a quick reading there you go so are you generally okay with those conditions and are you as the motion were you okay yes thank you I just want one comment I was part of this board the last time we approved some work to be done with this Pacific site and obviously disappointed that five or six years have gone by and happen so I hope we don't get disappointed again and if this gets done and we have a good business that will flers here for a long time so I think your hope is shared townwide yes very hard to have three vacant buildings supremely prominent right on the broadwalk sit on River Center believe me we're trying to think of ways to Gussy it up or make their some life this summer because it's not a good look great thank you okay Anor yes ramond M yes e Hogan yes Beno yes Vincent light yes agel no Anna Cruz yes and Amanda yes okay thank you very much good luck thank you motion to adjourn motion Anders no