I don't I told want I said but they were there we didn't know that I know he should have to come back no they were supposed to be restricted they they over my my intent is to make sure they don't work they're thank you for sentence here looking at the word isow so they have to take yeah that's what it says I'm confused over that word other other makes it sound like only of themist other than the that are here all everything I on you guys hour reality you I order good evening ladies and gentlemen this meeting is now called to order the burrow of SE in compliance with the open public meeting act provided adequate notice of the time date and location of this meeting to the Asbury Park Press file notice with the burrow Clerk and posted notice on the burrow office and the burrow website meeting is open to the public uh good evening everybody can we all stand and join inag United States of America to stand [Music] indice good evening everybody we have a roll call let's see Bieber here miss bills here Mr Cashmore here chairman hunningham Mr Julia here Vice chairman Deo here M Kelly Mr Lawrence here Mr Lex here Mr Schwarz here Mr Z okay can we have somebody an approval of the October 24th meeting minutes anybody have any any corrections to it or motion to approve it I I'll move second we need a roll call on that yeah okay Council Bieber yes M bills yes Mr casmore yes Mr Julia yes Vice chairman yes Mr Lawrence yes Mr LAX yes Mr Schwarz yes Mr Selena and then we have the approval of the November 28th uh uh and 23rd meeting minutes what is that 2023 November oh that's the 20 okay the 28 of 2023 yes meeting minutes move Council Bieber yes Miss bills yes Mr Cashmore yes Mr juli yes that's chairman B yes Mr Lawrence yes Mr laxin yes Mr Schwarz yes okay the first on the agenda this evening is the memorialization of the resolution the amendment uh uh to to Prior approve the application of 2020-4 which is the break at CBR I'll move to Second who make a motion Mr a second Mr jul thank you have a roll call okay elor yes Miss bills yes yes Mr casmore yes Mr juli yes Vice chairman B yes Mr Lawrence yes Mr Lex yes and Mr Z just here for S of the record I don't think I don't think the councel can vote on that oh that's right sorry it's okay no that's that's right all right next on the agenda is the memorialization of the resolution application number 2023 06 I think I can move that one so I'll okay roll call again CER yes Miss Phils yes M casmore yes Mr Julio yes chairman de yes Mr Lawrence yes Mr Le yes okay now I don't know if there's anybody here this evening on on the uh on the golden application that was asked to be carried U we're going to be carrying to January 9th with no other uh notice and also we're going to carry the Middleton oh no M oh it is on for the nth on the 9th okay so that's scheduled for the 9th that'll be the same evening now so there'll be no further notice on those two meetings uh next on the application is 1485 ocean realy LLC Mr chairman members of the board good evening my name is Kevin Moore with the firm of Stevens and Le and I represent the applicant this evening 1485 oan Avenue real LLC I first want to let the board know that the applicant has withdrawn its appeal of the zoning office decision and is just going to be seeking fian final site plan approval in a bulk Varian for the awning this evening uh with that uh my office provided a notice packet uh to um Miss Mitchell and I was uh wondering if the board is okay with the notice and is ready to take jurisdiction he that's been reviewed and the board has prepared to accept jurisdiction and proceed on the application thank you the property which is the subject of this application is 1485 Ocean Avenue it's block four lot five on your burrow tax map it's 17. 53 acres in area and it's in your B3 Ocean Front business Zone the applicants affiliate seahorse Beach Club LLC operates the seahorse Beach Club and uh Driftwood Cabana Club on the property as I stated earlier we're seeking preliminary and final site plan approval for an awning that's approximately covers the existing deck and is approximately 1,21 ft in area and 14.31 in and height uh we're also requesting uh C2 bul variants from section 130 uh 13-38 of the Burrow's land use ordinance to permit the warning to be 1,21 S ft in area where the maximum area committed for accessory structures is 500 square ft I would remind the board that in 2021 uh you did Grant a similar variance the same variance for the deck which the awning is proposed to cover I have six exhibits tonight which I'd like to Mark into the record now that's convenient for the board that be fine exhibit A1 is just uh a board of the cover sheet for the uh preliminary site plan that submitted exhibit 8 two is sheet two exhibit A3 is uh the amended ponary sight plan rendered exhibit A4 is uh in your packets and that is the plan set that we submitted uh that shows the awning exhibit a85 is the ca permit for the awning which I believe you've also placed in the record already and exhibit uh A6 is the uh approved uh plans uh that the D approve the connection with the c permit also have two witnesses this evening um my first witness is uh Mr Walter Hopkin uh he will be providing the site civil engineering and planning testimony and I also have Mr uh Christopher zorski of Asbury awning manufacturing and installation Inc he is the applicants warning contractor and new discuss the awning the way we're going to work things this evening is Mr Hopkin is first going to give the civil engineering testimony then Mr sator is going to describe the awning then Mr Hopkins going to give the planning testimony and then in the end I'm just going to set forth the awnings compliance with the c permit so with that I'd like to call Mr Hopkin you know the procedure know the drill you swear the testimony you already give here tonight should be the truth the whole truth truth yes I do could please state your name and spell your last for the record Walter Hopkin h o p k i n can you state your uh credentials and experience sure I have a Bachelor of Science from Drex University in civil engineering a licensed professional engineering states of New Jersey New York Pennsylvania Delaware and Maryland thank you Mr Le I'm wearing two hands uh we were I was here before you for the Redevelopment project along the river yep um and thank you for granting that we we're starting to get under one um so to locate the property obviously the board knows but for the record it's block four La 5485 Ocean Avenue located along the Eastern side of Ocean Avenue in your B3 Zone there's the existing Cabana Club there there's the tiki bar and there's an existing deck which ex which has existed for many years uh we were before you in 2021 to kind of legalize that that deck which was reconstructed during Sandy um similar variance relief that was requested that it was classified as an accessory structure over 500 square ft um the surrounding uses uh to the property as you well aware to to the north is Edge Water to the South is a stretch of bacon Beach obviously to the east is the ocean and to the West is a mix of residential commercial offices and things of that nature what's proposed before you this evening is just to cover a portion of the deck that currently exists that you granted the variance for uh the elevated portion of the deck um it's approximately 1,21 ft which exceeds zero ordinance requirement uh for an accessory structure of a maximum of 500 squ ft uh there was some I believe at some point there was some question as to the the building height um your ordinance requires a maximum of 15 ft for an accessory structure uh we provided the zoning officer with calculations and methodology that we came up with 14.3 feed um I don't I haven't heard it to the contrary that she disagrees with that so I would just uh represent that was a professional engineering planner that we believe that it complies with your ordinance unless Mr holder is the contrary no comment okay but I'd like to add something to that you know I I I was thought of creating the uh the uh the uh plans for for the town and when we came up with a 500 sare ft maximum for for an accessory building it was really based on our little single lots and I think we have to bring out the point that this is 17 Acres it's not going to be obstructing anybody you're not going to be interfering with anybody so I think that 500 is we should maybe in in the next uh time we do the uh the plan we should look into that to exclude that from the large lot right I I appreciate your your insight into that as well uh and and from an engineering standpoint the first hat that I have on that's the extent of my testimony uh for what we're doing just want to again emphasize that the awning is over the existing deck um there is an existing small awning that currently exists it's been there at least since 2017 that I could tell from the Aerials um but uh this is much larger and is is would cover the entire elevated deck area just so there's no confusion can you point exactly where you're talking now yes so this is the tiki bar this is the the uh deck area there's the lower deck area along here the upper deck area here you can see the existing aing there this the area that's supposed to be cover okay and what is the dimension of the upper portion of the deck uh the it's approximately 21x 44 is the a going to cover both the upper and the lower deck or just the upper deck just the upper yes so the lower deck has what on 50 tabl 50 tables yes what's on the upper de um I believe that's usually entertainment and people outside of the okay no chairs and tables um oh let's S no yes come up here please raise your right hand to be War you squar the testimony you already give here tonight to be the truth all truth nothing the truth and please State me install your last for the record Sure Williams sta St a v o l a and you operate the Driftwood yes I'm part and operate yeah so sorry now you can answer the question question what happens on the upper deck there is a you said entertain would be there as well so yeah be next um do you have tables and chairs there or is it just uh I needed you know sometimes we clear most of the tables and chairs out for people who want to dance and things like that uh so we just pull chairs and titles as needed I think the awning that is shown up there is where we use to cover our band uh during some of the summer months uh usually just for sun cover so that's just and that's a very temporary small awning that we use other as well it's just a cheap you know up and down awning and that pointing will be removed that one would come out right the little one would come out with our construction of the uh the LA and I saw something in the application about an morning near over a bar is that part of this also or not uh there's no paring bar on that bigger deck we do have a temporary bar that if we're that busy uh will bring our you know alcohol and things like that outside and uh a point of sale machine and operate right on the B deck so it's it's a kind of a temporary bar so it would be covered by this new warning yeah oh so so in other words this new warning will take take place even that one I'm sorry this new warning will take place of even that one also yes the temporary one you will need the temporary one or need one no not the small one see there no Walter could you clear something up so when I when I read the C permit and I read your documentation it describes in new warning as temporary and I saw somewhere that it was written that it was permanent in some of what is it it's temporary okay so the plan is because the C firm is clear about the season you can do it from what month to what month your intention is at the end of that period to take it down for the winter I'm going to let the the owning uh no I I can address that we actually interpret the C per that we can leave it up in the uh winter months because if you look and I can do my little pitch now if you look at exhibit A5 which is the cafra permit yep and you go to page 8 of nine of the cfer permit you'll see the approved plans that are approved by the CER permit and then if you look at exhibit A6 that is the that those are the plans that are approved and you they show this exact awning uh that we're proposing and if you'll see the first one is Mark uh summer uh PL summer uh layout and then the third one is winter so it was anticipated since CER since the D approved both of these in the kaer permit that it could be up all year just I mean just so we clear it up because when I read your documentation you call it temporary well it's temporary in the sense because all of this is technically temporary under the capital perit even the deck is that it can be taken down very quickly we can take it down in like 3 to 4 hours okay I mean if you look if you look at A5 right in the center section where talks about temporary structures at least the way I read this and maybe I'm reading it incorrectly everything that's listed there is permitted to say yes and anything that is not in that is expected to be removed after October 31st and the way I read that I did not see the canopy or Awning or whatever you want P it included in that list and the fact that the caer permit wrote it that way and you called it temporary in your documentation implied to me your intent to take it down at the end of the year yeah you can speak to that previously yeah yeah I mean so when when we amended our cafer permit which every year we have an opportunity to uh submit different uh how do I say structures or components of our cafer plan we have a window of opportunity uh I work with our I think she she work for maor engineering at the time Jac mord and uh we had plans at that time to for the future to do what we're proposing tonight and I said how can we put this into our uh permanent CA plan and she said well we we can impose that on that pupper deck which is this 21 and uh so she drew it on there as you see it and uh that was in conjunction with us having to change our Tik bar which I think you're aware that we reconstructed the entire thing we removed the walls and windows and so my interpretation of of our existing Tiki Bar that's a bigger structure is is it's called on the permanent uh temporary concession shell mhm right and so I take the oning to be a concession shell right it's it's an awning and underneath of it we provide food and beverage and if I read the C permit exactly by the way it's written it said it says the word shells can remain right in in that one sense it refer to uh let me just if you guys don't mind right here so all temporary structures authorized by this permit comma other than a temporary L linear sand piles comma underground utilities comma floor decking comma and open drink and food concession stand shells in plural okay okay so other than those everything else has got to come out October 31st so my thinking is is the main Tiki Bar plus this awning constitute the shelves and it's it's an awning that's that's all it is it's not I mean the the other Tiki Bar which is approved of course you guys approved it has a permanent roof on it so um we did title it temporary in the fact that if we get some sort of 60 80 90 mph storm that comes through here you guys know we could get some bad new eracers chis can take the thing down in 3 hours or so you know which we very well might do but only if we have a severe storm so our idea is to take advantage of some of the nicer weather in the fall and some of the nicer weather in the spring and then and that's the purpose behind it but besides getting more our members covered during the summer sun cover and things like that okay thank you for that problem and I I personally don't have an issue one way or the other I'm just looking for something in compliance with with the governing documentation right and I I did not interpret um concession shell me or the only the only other thing I'll say and then I'll I'll move on is in your narrative description I think it's yours it says wildest temporary orning appears rather substantial it can be disembl disassembled in 3 to 4 hours what did you mean by temporary well again all of this has to be even the debt temporary to comply with sort of the cap permit this is all temporary because it's on the beach so that's what we meant by temporary okay so it's in line with like the deck boards and everything else can see temporary okay youve answered my question and we would accept the condition that the uh approval is consistent with the ca perm I going to be no matter what we couldn't wave and Capal requirements we want so I mean what you just described as an interpretation of the C per yes right which means it's an interpretation absolutely and I personally don't have an issue with what's being asked for okay um I'd be concerned about it being damaged in the winter time but that's the owner's concern right it's not mine and the only thing I would say is you've explained your interpretation I don't have an issue with it unless this comments from other MERS thank you sir and I guess maybe if I if I could just kind of D down on that clarify if the board is inclined to approve that without specifically conditioning our approval on that type of time frame that's within our discretion understanding that the D's permit and requirements are what they are if they disagree with their interpretation that will be their compliance issue with with the D in the cap firm so that's not going to change but you know I guess my point is we don't kind of need to litigate that unless the board really felt that from a local perspective you wanted uh that limitation to BL well that would be my question also is if the D is putting these restrictions on them they have jurisdiction over enforcing it also why do we get involved in it is that part of the planning board no you're not going to that's well we shouldn't have anything to do with it we're going to improve the structure as we say it halfer D is going to to regulate whether they comply with it that's their job not ours I guess we do have one issue in the documentation and again I don't have an issue with it it's it's from our zoning office that says the new roof is a permanent structure which would require updated cafer approval but if you look at the plan I'm just I understand the plan all I'm saying is there's a statement by somebody in our zoning department well from what I understand what the conversations with Mary was is by by the the plans that was submitted it has the appearance of being a permanent structure because it's very large tubular aluminum but it's it's it's still really a temporary type construction it can be easily disassemble as they're testifying and as a board we have to listen to their testimony and believe it too so yeah the reason we it's somewhat substantial is as you know we get all in all months some pretty severe wind in weather anything more insubstantial we don't want to blow all over the beach or onto the road I think what's happening here is that the zoning office did exactly what we're all doing and we're looking at this P saying this is a permanent structure it's not a temporary structure it's temporary for cafra because you can get it removed right away just the same way that the that the dep is a permanent structure it's not a temporary structure you're not removing it at the end of the year so but they steem it a temporary structure because that's whatever phraseology they use exactly and I actually I mean I interpret the C permit the same way councilman's interpreting the uh the cap permit I I don't understand why they refer to it in the in the permit as being a a St shell if your plants say orning your plants say or it so I don't understand why they're not consistent but regardless that's up to CF right and and I don't personally have a problem with ass but I I agree with your interpretation it doesn't make I don't understand why they different terms it's bizarre Mr chairman can I just ask one question can I ask Walter to read the major plan page three of three what's the call out for the for the for the a what does it say here I can't read it's too tiny I have magy my pH oh okay I've looked at really is that would help solve this it says one it does yeah cuz I was looking for for shell and it says audio Walter has sashes on I don't well I don't know if the the quality of what we have here tonight has it I I do know that it is called out in in the um it's called out as an AUD can resolve we can resolve that right here don't need to what's the DAT of the pl A6 the maer plans date is let me get that for you it is uh originally prepared May 1st 2019 last revised July 19th 2020 and it's your Testament that those are the plans that went to cfer yes and the pl C and they're referenced in the CF Department I still can't read it with my phone can you uh no and it's it has a size um and it's just all the only thing I really read is proposed well I blew it up on the PDF on my computer is way I could read it and that's where I took the dates off can we just assume you know uh what said earlier and what we've all said is unless we have a problem with this as a board this is on CA that's what I'm and if CA is saying that they can't do what be approved they can't do it because so right I just wanted to read and I personally don't have I personally don't have a problem with Ben can ask a question if we if we and I think we go comment so far are supportive if we if kaffer approaches us and say how did you interpret an orning as part of that do we have any vulnerability in that no because quite frankly not to undermine our Authority but quite frankly how we interpret it versus how they interpret it as it LS to their permit wouldn't make a difference because definitionally our ordinance may be different than than what their requirements are okay so you know we're not going to bind them in any way and quite frankly the applicant to the extent they have any dispute with the DP and CER over that permit are not going to be able to use our resolution and say hey here's what they said therefore you have to agree with us there you their interpretation I think all of us in the room are in agreement that Ka has the ultimate Authority their right okay and the fact that we're interpreting it consistently the way they're interpreting it if if DP interprets it differently it does not make us V okay I think I think there's one other conflict in the permit even that has nothing to do with us because it confirmed exactly where the warnings going and not going but in the first page of the permit where they give the description of the authorized activities they talk about the 19x 39 ft de concession stand will include an a which looking at the plans really relates sizewise to the lower deck which is not which is not proposing an aing so there's you know there's a couple of inaccuracies in there but again that's really not our issue uh I just pointed that out that's but they were clear about what they were proposing and the masor plan shows exactly where they're proposing it as well well yeah and I had no either but that's another point there that they're using they use the word on in the second part it doesn't make sense that they're calling it a shell in the first part well lot of they did so so you guys better make sure yeah again I don't think anything do with us but you better make sure that c knows what you're doing absolutely there's the way the way I there they use the word gel addressing items on the beach they don't use this they don't they specifically address this as an nor I I believe it the per perm very confusing interpretation that that Chang that transferred the SH word towards the internally inconsistent we've kind of been hanging our hat on is the fact that they do specifically correctly call out the masor plans with that date and they show what we're proposing and that says one right so I don't know that don't get in trou not I'm sure you want to go back to C and do anything pay the net so the board's aware Maser shared their plans with us and it's the basis of our plans so the the information of the data was transferred exactly from the Capal peral to the plan that he sees before you dece me and and our decision is being based on one we're not using the word sh right our decision is based on the dp's you know designation and the major plan designation of our decision we don't care yeah and we're not going to call the sh I just I have one last thing on this on this aial it shows a second maybe third aing that's that walkway going out is that something you need approval for or is that previously been approved by this board are you referring to right here yeah yeah those come down every uh fall I mean you're all welcome to come out anytime I'm asking the their attorney is it is it would it be proper to include that in the application so there's no question if they were never is it under 500 ft I doubt it I mean that's a that's a $200 home that's all that is just looks the same paint no no it's just got little stripes on here's one here so guys see over here yeah there's one here there's one here and we move these around depending on if somebody's having a it's party we need to Mo like temporary cover that's all that is it's I mean our on officer didn't talk about it no I think but but it's a similar situation it looks like two different owns is it so stacked together there's a whole bunch of them and they come and go I mean we could have one here we could have these through here um but they're but they're not permanent they're just literally it's like something you do when you when you go camping that that's all that is right here I mean I'm sorry beach every once in a while if we have one of our customers wants a party we'll PST s on beach for the day and then we'll just move take it down these are very I say they won't last in the winter because of the wind the these you know that's why the plans are what they are for what we're doing now the these will never sust stand to 50 m hour you know so so your testimony is that it doesn't rise to the requirement of needing approval by the plan yes that's what I was getting at you know the other the other interpretation here when you read that first paragraph it says the 19 by 39 deck concession stand will include an on and if you look down below it says FL decking and concession stand the fact that it says above it will include it kind of makes it sound like it's old one thing there's there's poor wording in this we don't have to worry like like like our attorney says we don't really have to worry about the C permit we'll just deal with what we have in front of us yeah and and I I think our approval has nothing to do with the Caper permit that's it I agree don't know why we being unless if it excluded it if it was clear that it excluded it then we would have an issue get before us just to for for the size of an accessory building with with a has some other regulations that's their agency to take care of not us Dave I agree with you and I also agree with your initial comment that this is not what this ordinance was intended to cover in the first place so I don't even know if they really would have to be here just we never contemplated when we drafted that ordinance of this type of situation and this this whole club where we're talking about where they're operating now is is all on their property it's not even West it's not even east of the seaw wall it's west of the seaw wall and and I I I I don't like the fact that we're trying to tie their hands I don't think we are I think I we're finding a way to yes that's great what we're do Mr chairman I think you guys understand what the deck looks like so I don't think there's any need to have uh Mr zorski come up and tell you what you already know um I can have Mr uh Hopkin very briefly for I don't think we need it do we no you're willing to stipulate it we don't need it let's uh let's open it to the public if anybody has any questions of the testimony we've been listening to from uh uh Mr Hopkins if not we'll close the public portion and I guess you can introduce your next we're ready okay I have one question how how much win can this thing get good now we are have to bring I can't I couldn't quantify it without yeah come please raise your right hand here tonight should be the truth the whole truth trth I do pleas State last for the right Christopher zorski Z is in zebra a is an apple T is and Tom o r s k i you do that a lot okay okay you just need to talk about I mean we don't know exactly but some sense of this right so this is a traditional a shaped awning it's it's going to be uh made of welded 1X two uh aluminum the uh the canopy is going to uh lace on to the uh to the frame so it'll be removable in a matter of I think uh you mentioned minutes but maybe 60 minutes or an hour or so it's going to be two pieces the the the fabric cover and the uh the roof sections will be removable they're held together by through bolts I think there's about 20 per per roof section and uh with a team of four or five guys we can have that down in a few hours we'll leave the uprights obviously but if there's a situation where we have to take everything down and it's certainly doable I think what they just wanted to know is what approximately level of wing can it handle I would rather an engineer we don't have a structural engineer you can get somebody to test that this Chris you told me hurricane fors well I mean if I was the owner when I got to take down I mean we use a similar structure for the uh temporary we have a roll down fabric material that Chris has Supply us uh for the external TIY bar uh for wind covering and uh we're good up to 50 60 MPH WIS with that and uh if we got anything 60 70 M hour we take it down the last thing we is have it especially with us easily if you come down what whatever the manufacturer specifications are right the beauty of this is it can be taken down so if there's something forecast they can get it down within a few hours is there any other questions the board has for this application to I'll second okay Bieber yes Miss yes Mr casmore yes Mr Julia yes chman yes Mr Lawrence yes Mr Le yes Mr yes thank you happy holidays thank you thank you can't that I can either I can fold it up I can email and here's my card was do we have any other further business before us this evening anybody in the public I guess there's nobody in the public close that we have a motion to