Iber would some that's it's not your fault now I miss you I like you next I know question we're doing you st don't talk as much all right don't get yourself all worked out updated [Laughter] you I'm ready are you ready that one's going to get shifted with with not new notes I to say there are many people here it's yeah that that one we'll announce that right away please stand for salute to the flag Al to the flag United States of America the for stands indiv jce for all [Music] meeting is now called to order the Bureau of SE in compliance with the open public meeting act has provided adequate notice of the time date and location of the meeting to the Asbury Park Press the link news on January 19th 2021 filed notice with the burough Clerk and posted notice in the buau office and on the buau website this meeting is open to the public and this has the Frank and Mark so it's just Frank for the swearing in for swearing yeah yeah we have the whole thing to do we have a roll call please I please say your name hi Frank lawence to solemnly swear to solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution I will support the Constitution of the United States of the United States and the Constitution and the constitution of the state of New Jersey of the state of New Jersey and that I will bear our true faith that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and allegiance to the same and to the governments and to the governments established in the United States established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of of the people under the authority of the people I do further solemnly swear I do further solemnly swear that I will Faithfully that I will faithfully impartially impartially and justly and justly perform all the duties of the office of perform all the duties of the office of planing Zoning Board member class two member planning zoning board class two member term of one year from January 1st 2024 to 1231 2024 according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability so help me God so me congratulations welcome back all right moving on to attendance roll please Miss BS Mr casmore here pen here Mr Julio absent Mr here mayor Kelly Mr Lawrence here councilman Lex here Mr Schwarz Mr Zen or abson okay on to board appointments Mr chairman well not yet Mr chair I'm going to make a motion to nominate Lance Cunningham as chair second thank you roll call please miss bills yes Mr Cashmore yes Mr cing happy to continue Mr D yes Mr Lawrence yes yes [Music] okay uh Vice chair be happy to nominate Dave de again I will s that nomination thank you m bills yes Mr casmore yes chairman Cunningham yes Mr s Mr Lawrence yes Mr Lex yes appointment of the secretary happy to continue on with Candace thank you I will second that motion M bills yes Mr casmore yes Mr Cunningham yes M yes Mr lawence yes Mr yes on to our professional appointments uh for the board Attorney Ben has done a wonderful job for us I would make a motion that we continue with Ben I'll second call please M phills yes Mr Cashmore yes Mr C yes Mr C yes Mr Lawrence yes Council M yes thank you although although we haven't haven't seen you in action in court yet good I hopefully you won't need to I thank the board not only for the appointment but for the confidence you have a wonderful team here and I'm glad to be part part of it on to the board engineer not a lot of changes going on here i' make a motion that we continue with David I'll start that Mr casmore yes Mr cam yes Mr s yes Mr Lawrence yes Council yes thank you everybody welcome back on to appointing the board planner I would continue on and make that motion as well to continue on with yes no thanks I will second the motion to continue [Music] R pleas okay M phills yes Mr casmore yes hunningham yes Mr s yes Mr lies yes C yes thank you very much um anyone not seeing the schedule for next year this is for the uh meeting schedule everybody should yeah we got them all the all the usual suspects approve I'll make a motion to approve the schedule okay second M bills yes Mr casman Mr hunningham yes Mr C yes Mr Lawrence yes yes did you put me down for yes can once off that slipped right past you see right back uh designation of there are official newspaper the Asberry Park Press and Two River Times I'll make that motion second roll call please yes Mr Cas yes yes Mr yes Mr Lawrence yes yes okay that's our reorg business items of business for tonight uh uh let's see approval of 12 12 1223 regular meeting minutes I'll move the minutes second pleas M bills yes Mr Cashman yes Mr Cunningham yes Mr Gale yes Mr Lawrence yes councilman yes okay onto the application the resolution for application 1485 Ocean Avenue reality I'll make a motion to adopt the resolution second okay this SP yes Mr casmore yes Mr Cunningham Mr yes Mr yes Mr Lawrence yes yes one [Music] two this application this is going okay we down to our live business yes we to our our live business business okay moving on to um application number 20229 amendment to Prior approval M Mr chairman do you want to announce that the golden application is not being heard tonight first uh sounds like you just did thank you I just want to make sure in case everybody's here the golden will not be heard tonight they are planning to be here on the 13th of February there will be further oh my God weird that nobody was here well maybe no they didn't okay hang out well you can always send him the evil Bill actually I do have something for Candace first something on relation so uh so there will be there will be no notice because you'll get notice in the mail maybe someone yeah have a good day okay on to the Middleton application which I need to step down we have a business conf this one's here I don't have any I had [Music] a [Music] so this is the midd Middleton application oh okay all right that's all right this is a simple one I'm familiar with this one okay this is for uh Middleton at 22 Surf Street it's an administrative approval for the additional addition of a fire plac bumped out on the west elevation of the home that's literally all you're doing right well what let me swear in firste raise your right hand to be sworn do you swear the testimony you already did here tonight be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you could please state your name and sell your last to the rec it's Gareth Middleton m d l n and GTH I'll ask you the question now you're on the road is that literally all you're doing is that in the addition of a fireplace pump out correct with within the a right there okay and Dave you look that in there's nothing right I didn't look at it but I I know of the application I didn't do I looked at it but I didn't do a review that's all that's all I know so what he's saying is correct I mean I don't have a problem with this I don't know about everybody else it wasn't penetrating the prop line at all it brought it right up to it but yeah the survey indicates that the with the bump out for the fireplace it's five approximately 5 half in from the property line on that side uh but as the house goes to the rear uh the actual structure is literally on the property line at the rear because it doesn't follow the same geometry as as the property I should know for the record I don't know if it was um this planner or not we did actually move the building a few tents of an inch to a tensal foot away from the neighbor's house as was a request by one of the planning board members last time so we actually made better we squared it up if not creating any Varian get administratively corre that is correct no new variances that's the only change the prior resolution and approval was resolution 22 20229 so the only amendment to that would be this uh fireplace bump out right we've given you a new set of plans 18 sets full size to replace the previously approved res and the fireplace pump out is only on the one floor on on the top floor it is on what we call the second store yes right yes I think they already had a a variance for side yard set [Music] down okay on an administrative uh issue do I need open to the public you should okay do you have anything else to State at this point no I don't okay working within the confines I'd like to open it to the public if anybody has any uh anything any comments or questions about this application no I guess not so we'll close the public portion uh is there any discussion between the board or any any motion I'll make a motion to approve the application second okay his bills yes Mr Cash yes yes Mr Lawrence no no councilman Lex [Music] yes motion is C is approved 4 One okay congratulations thank you [Music] thought I wasn't [Music] prepared okay moving on to David mayor welcome 24 Surf Street block 11 lock 13 good evening members of the board Jeffrey beakman of the beakman law firm in Ocean Grove New Jersey I am actually representing um the Mayors on this application on behalf of K Kevin Kennedy he had a conflict this evening so he asked if I could cover for him um so I am in on behalf of our mutual client um this application is for a uh uh tear down and rebuild uh on the existing Foundation I have uh tonight my witnesses will be uh David mayor I have David Feldman um I have Andrew Jenna will be our planner and Jennifer white will be our engineer um and my first witness I don't know if you want to swear them all in at once and then we do one at a time as they come up sorry it's shut off for some reason it's [Music] [Music] ringing I don't want to this is anything on the record but I just wanted to mention so so my client is a little hard of hearing so if you can't understand I'm explaining that now to the board okay I apologize six years three different or four different hearing aids and again only make that one person at a time sometimes but fortunately I can always make out my wife's voice most important yes [Music] I was up in Maine over the weekend and there was ice on Sunday and Monday what I have you back I they wen't s were they yeah oh what the the little ones yeah well the you know they call them U they're like little little skers um the little they call them whizzard Wizards yeah you know Bill Paul Cs and all those guys in main or in Maine oh yeah yeah cuz I I have a c there no I know that yeah so so I had to be home I had to be back for Middletown zoning board last get a point so I miss so I went to Red Bank just to look you have a boat up there uh I actually have my boat up there in storage because it's free because I have 28 yeah but I I bought a small Wellcraft 25 Wellcraft oh I meant the ice oh yeah they're all up there except for the Ice Bird that's down here just in case the bird that's what I was thinking of yeah I wondered if they sailed here I don't think so yeah they I I heard it just solidified yesterday yeah and it's going to get warm it's going to melt right after looks [Music] nice you guys want Frost I want Sun you you and my wife why do you like the C took my uh 4mth old out in like a sled on well on Tuesday and then on Saturday and she didn't cry but the look she gave me she did not enjoy the experience say she seems to be more of she was trying to figure out what was going on and she gave me like a look first [Music] time all right let the record reflect Mr cashore is back so we can pick things up if you could please raise your right hand to be sworn you swear the testimony you already give here tonight should be the truth the whole truth nothing but the trth yes I do and please state your name to sell your last for the record David mayor I didn't hear the second last name spell m m a y e r so board members as I indicated Mr Mayor sometimes a little hard of hearing cuz he he hears an echo um in here so if I have to repeat question I'll try to do that no problem okay um Mr Mayor you are the owner of 24 Surf Street yes I am uh and how long have you own that property uh since about 2006 and since you've owned that property um have you suffered any type of damage or anything uh to it yes uh we suffered from superstorm Sandy we had uh about 8 ft of water on the property three times when the tide was high so the bottom fourt of sheet rock is gone the floors were damaged the kitchen all the equipment the dishwasher the stove the refrigerator uh the bathrooms um the air conditioning system which was outside um the place is not habitable it needs a a complete renovation or a replacement there was mold which was treated and we've been successful with that so there's been no mold since original treatment and since hurricane Sandy have you have you already elevated the property we elevated the property after standing the house was built with a 4T crawl space underneath that was existing when we purchased [Music] it um and so when you did that when you did that lift um have you completed any improvements since that time other than the lift no right and you've consulted with your professionals who are going to be here to testify tonight been those professionals over the years and and um from your understanding the recommendation from your professionals with what you're looking to do it makes more sense to tear down and rebuild as opposed to it's not the the structure isn't really resistant to storms um it's not habitable the way it is it's not designed for a modern family it has two very awkwardly shaped bedrooms um and uh there the bath and a half and some living space so the plans that were submitted this evening by Mr Feldman other plans that you would like to get approved yes correct um and as far as the foundation is concerned are you proposing any changes to the existing Foundation no these are the um the design that was done is the design that was approved previously so what you're looking to build is on top of that existing found on top of the existing raised foundation and since you've owned the property have you sold off any land to any of your neighbors no um so the property is the same size dimensions as it was when you bought it yes uh the foundation um was there any change to the foundation from when you bought it no because when the house was lifted the intent was to put fresh block on top of the existing block the lifter said the existing block isn't isn't in sufficient condition to maintain anything so he remove the block remove the footings replace the footings and just built it right underneath and put the house back down on it so it's exactly the same okay and and that was done all with permits correct yes you've gotten approvals for the foundation yes so now you're looking to do a renovation yes I don't have any other questions from uh the client I have a question does that New Foundation meet the uh the requirements of the vzone I'll have our architect testify [Music] that I mean I don't think he's qualified for tesy okay so my question well all right we'll get further into it when when you're changing more than 50% of the house you have to meet all the new new codes and I'll have the architect testify to that I don't I don't want to [Music] answer anybody else anyone in the public have a question about the testimony Gentleman Just Say [Music] not I have one other question did you ever live in the house I'm sorry did you ever live in a house we used it as a a Shor house came down for weekends or a week or two at a time um we would entertain there our children stayed there many times without us uh for one season we rented it back in 2007 or 8 but we found we really weren't landlord NOS so we never rented it again so your intention now in the future is to use it for yourself yes it's just for our use not for rental at [Music] all that's all line anyone else thank you thank you thank [Music] you so I think we have one exhibit to Mark and that's just the color rendering we can mark that is exhibit A1 a what A1 [Music] A1 could raise your right hand to be SW do you swear the testimony you already give here tonight will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and please State Nam call your last for the record David fman eison Frank e l d Nan principal of Feldman and Feldman architects Township [Music] new and you have testified before many boards before I have than and David your licenses are current they are and you've been approved as an expert in F of architecture from other boards you've never testified before this board uh I think some time ago I have okay um it's quite thank you um so just for identification purposes David the uh what we just marked as A1 can you just um explain why that that is compared to the plans that were submitted previously yeah so so the difference between this and the plans that were previously submitted is we added some color uh to the St and we also indicated a twoot high knee wall that would be coming off of the uh second floor and that's to show that it does comply with the ordinance as far as the the definition of the half store correct that is correct okay um so David you're familiar with the site I am when you were uh preparing your plans did you look at the surrounding neighborhood we did and utilize what you saw in the surrounding neighborhood to prepare the plans that you submitted for this evening that is correct um and so with respect to those plans um you you actually signed the plans and I'm sorry what are they dated uh these are dated 52723 which is the date of the original plans that were submitted uh consisting of Three Sheets um P1 through p uh three P1 being the elevations P2 being the floor plans and P3 as well um and that color rendering does that have a revision date at all it does not we can make that today can I suppose yes okay U so that's the only the only page that has changed that is correct right um so with respect to the application let's let's start on on the lowest level where the garage door is um there was a question in the review reports about parking can you describe what your plan is to address parking yeah so so three parking spaces for my understanding of what um what we have actually is the house sits about 4 to 5 ft off the uh Street off the sub house so obviously we cannot get a car in front of the home it would protrude into the uh into the right way the m so what we have is actually underneath the house we have room for two cars in addition to that we've provided another garage door out the rear of the house so in the event that a third car would need to be parked on on premises they would be able to open the store drive the car through here either leave that door open or closed in addition to the two cars that would still be in the garage or under the house and and the I'm sorry can you just explain that again how do you get to it you would basically pull in come under the house and then you come out okay you know let's go back to that first page that we marked as K1 in the original plan that just remind me in the original plan in the rear elevation we didn't show that rear garage correct that's correct so that this garage door so that's the reair what will be the ground underneath that uh spot in the rear so that so that ground is actually covered by the building above okay so we were either going to put some papers underneath which is already counted into the impervious because the house does already exist about that okay so the car would be park on the papers yes for the car either papers or Ribbon strips which we've done a lot in in um springly um you know I'd have to talk with the clients so what they do but even if we would have paid the entire space to allow for the car to park there it would be this area that I'm referring to which would be underneath the home which is already part of the impervious calculations and the parking spaces you're referring to the two within the level and then the one outdoor space they are dimensionally 3 9 by8 rsis compliance SP so so so from inter interior to interior uh if I'm not mistaken we have about 37 ft which will allow for 2 18t parking spots 37 1/2 ft uh the back here we have 16 ft to the overhang so the car probably protrude out in addition of 2 ft beond but the coverage wouldn't have to protrude the coverage would not have to change and that's not the rear of the property there's that's there an additional to 10 ft or so yeah 8T it's 8.16 on the rear set but is but isn't that area really a Pao area um it's a Pao area they clean garage or third car well I don't necessarily know if it's a patio area or how they intend to use it I mean the living space is up on the second floor why you close it and make it a true garage we could the reason I'm saying that is I mean I think it gives we have a huge cery it's not that wi of the street to begin with and search and we have a huge parking problem in this town I mean it's our number one problem we've got five bedrooms I don't know why you need five bedrooms but you have five bedrooms which is creting the three the three car need and basically that's going to be a patio and if there's barbecue equipment out there or something that third car is never parking there where going Park so if I may the majority of the time this home is going to be occupied by Mr and Mrs mayor the two of them chances are they're both going to come down in Oneal car the thing is though anything be approved tonight uh you know that's what's built there so they might choose to sell and if it's only Mr Mrs mayor why do we need five bedrooms that's one bedroom okay well if I if I if I can continue um the majority of the time it's going to be Mr and Mrs mayor that are down here they do have children that do come and will visit now that they have this five-bedroom home their children have children okay so when those children are all present they want the family to be comfortable right now they're in a two-bedroom one and a half um home that has a small dining area um a gallon kitchen and it just doesn't function so the majority of the time it's just going to be one car or if they decide to leave a car down here two cars so chances are yes they might have a barbecue out here in the event the kids are here and the kids need a parking spot we are providing what the township coordinance requires us to provide but don't you think when the family all down they also might want to have a barbecue in that space on the deck right that's what I'm saying the living space is up on the second floor correct so chances are if they're up on the second floor and they have a deck out here that they could entertain and cook and eat so what's the intended use of that space we could ask the Mayers I mean if they want I don't understand why you just only close it then and make it a true garage well if I me but it also will you only have 16 ft yeah it also if you're closing that garage door you only have 16 ft you're going to need potentially if you have a large vehicle you're going to need that 18t space I think the largest vehicle is about 16 and change yeah but that brings up another issue you can't get legal parking in the setback of the home and that is into the set back of the back home you have to have 15 ft backyard this protrudes into the 15 ft and it's not considered a legal parking space I just don't know why you can't go with four bedrooms and then you how many how many parking SP they have four bedro you only need two they need well the ordinance only requires two right now it requires three with the number of bedrooms no the ordinance re well the RS but reques two and rsis is a maximum not a minimal no we have to follow rsis but RS the new rules in rsis are a maximum not a minimum that that changed in September of last year so if the local town has a requirement that's less than rsis they can do that what they can't do their ordinance can't be more than rsis it's a maximum okay one thing though the spaces inside the building are less than 18 ft deep no no you said 37 37 18 and 18 36 36 okay I'm sorry yeah original originally the home was able to pull car and and even in that the home was able to pull car side and what is what is the width in there okay so so from inside to the staircase well make it make it the the narrowest the elev the elevator is 142 to the elevator is 12 so prior to prior to this design two things happened so you have two spaces inside the inside the home correct prior to that they were able to pull a car here and a car here still not meeting the 9 and n i i i don't believe um oh yeah they would it was exactly 18 ft however that staircase to get up to the upper level okay existed on the side of the house when it was on the side of the house there was no way of getting around the back of the yard it created a hazard for the fire department if they needed to circulate around the property okay so that stair was asked to be removed I believe when the house was lifted when the house was lifted we were forced to internally put a staircase which now reduced the 18 ft that allowed us to park side by side being that we can't now park side by side and given the fact that they're aging we incorporated an elevator as well not diminishing the fact that we could get a car and a car because we were already we already lost the fact that we can't get a car side by side anymore because we mooved the staircase that was on the outside to the inside so so there was a lot of trickling down as to how we got to I you know i' like I'd like to stop referring to the applicant's use of this home they could sell it one year from now and then we have to deal with the new new person that owns a home so this home has to comply with our zoning and what we'd like to see in the downtown area but zoning is two spes I don't care about who's what they want to do with the home it's what the home will meet our our requirements in the town and what what is the decision from the experts on a five bedroomroom house how many parking spaces do they need three spaces they need three that's I wasn't aware I mean I'm not saying I know everything but I wasn't aware of an rsis rule change nor was I nor was I yeah there's there was an RSI s rule change in September that says that rsis is a maximum but the local municipalities can have their own rules they just can't go over that maximum there was a change and your maximum your and your ordinance says two two for two parking spaces two for three no your ordinance says two parking [Music] spaces it's a clarification of rsis um I'll give you the section just give me a second I have here and and is it two the matter you have 20 pants it's only two that's your ordinance that's thein yeah that's your ordinance you have 50 bedrooms and it be two parking no that doesn't so your ordinance should be really old be really stupid and and no one bother to sh because rsis control right your your ordinance says class one residential uses one family dwelling units which is what this is two per dwelling unit that's what the ORD says well typically this Bo utilizes rsis which would require three spaces for a five bedroom house and the other is here anyway so and and I understand the concern with rsis and that's why we wanted to show that look we can do this we're we're proposing this enclosing it I don't know that is the right answer because that space is only you're not going to have you still need the five bedrooms though why do you need five bedrooms that's a lot of bedrooms again so so do we need to ask we need to ask the client why needs five bedrooms that's a lot of bedroom for this street with with with inadequate parking in my opinion and that and that patio that they talking about using as overflow doesn't even qualify for a legal size car it then goes into the rear yard setback which you would need another variance or if you want to calculate that as a third space you can't you can't get a legal space in a setback so that brings up the other sh well as as we indicated we are providing an area where we can accommodate a typical size car because that's 16 ft yes there would be an overhang to the rear if if a wheel stop was required or something your third spot would have to need a variance because it's protruding into the set not the correct size so the third spot is parking on the patio on the patio into the set is it indicated as a patio no it's not indicated why it not just squared off to begin with it wouldn't then it wouldn't be a legal spot no no I understand that but but why originally on the plan was it was it not s off this is this is the existing Foundation the way it currently exists so we're not modifying that the existing Foundation is what's currently there and we're taking the exis open in the back David let me ask you a question if we the full interior space if you enclose that rear where it is the the full interior space what would be the total dep 53 and you need 54 to accommodate 3 full cars so you would still need some relief from the board corre I would I would point out to just for everybody's edification too just conceptually remember that the front set back here proposed is for 4 4.1 ft and the rear yard from the you know the farthest point is only 8.16 ft so if you square that off you have no front yard in I think leav open is leave to the back um that was the point I was making that's really the only rear yard but if the desires us to enclose it I I don't that wasn't my point but the point is it's a patio area I mean right that's what it is now if I'm looking at the the plan and open area now but currently now the house is not rever living So currently now the living space is one Flor off of the ground right what we're proposing is that we are now going to be the living space two floors off of the ground so chances of them cooking here and going all the way down to here to eat and having to come through the garage to get back here to eat is not going to happen the chances of that are slim but I the chances of Park in the third part back there are even Slimmer no one's going to do that okay we I I actually thought it was three cars in a row blocking each other doesn't work great just doesn't work great no but it does accommodate the three spaces technicality but they're going to end up parking in the street I I asked this question before under RSI asked we only have four bedrooms how many spaces would they need 2.5 2.5 so they still need three so we still have we still ask the board for on that one the question one of the first questions I had out here before was I need to get clarified is does that Foundation qualify for the new building codes for the vzone construction okay so my understanding required uh Breakaway walls and all other kind of Stu okay so my understanding from what I've been told by the engineer who's here to testify is that it's not in a vzone it's in an AE Zone and the foundation does comply with AE [Music] requirements that's correct I have it as as a 80 Zone elevation 8 + 3 is 11 and they're up to 13 I mean I'm not comfortable with parking because no no I'm not any what Mr beakman provided which I think is being passed around says um the reviewer may choose to allow a number under that maximum so may doesn't mean you have to this this board can make a how many should be there as part of thein which is different than what rsis always was because you always did it as a mandatory but now we have a right to go to the [Music] ordinance that's correct I would agree with that statement I could certainly talk to my clients and see if if four bedrooms would suit their needs again I was giving an initial program but not you thought your F I'm not saying it is I I I try to address their concerns and their needs while at the same time trying to address the the the ordinance and I felt that this was a clever way if needed that they would be able to provide an an additional spot off off street but if the board you know chances are okay and and I'm I'm speaking to them and they can tell me I'm wrong but chances are if we go down to a four bedroom they're still going to have the same amount of cars and the board might say okay well we'll give you the two parking spots you know I I don't know but I'd rather if they need the third spot to be able to provide an alternative that I think is is harmless to the neighborhood okay works with the design of what's existing and what we have to work with and at the same time provides an alternative and hopefully a solution to both of their concerns as well as the board's concerns I mean I I would feel a lot more com with report that is because I understand still 2.5 but at the same time it it's less likely that you're going to need an extra car rather than having five bedrooms that's fair I mean you heard you did have your cure testimonies it's going to be owner occupied right but said we know he can sell his property no I I agree with that and he may have no intention of doing that right now but he something could happen and he has to sell it and who knows what happens the prices of homes in this town are ridiculous right now so it's very tempting to sell a new house with a lot of money off it and when I first opened this plan and looked at it my first impression was that this looks like an Airbnb boarding house and that's one of the things we absolutely do not want in this town I the downtown people are lovely people and and inundated with crowds of people come from New York and partying up and down the streets and that happens it does happen I don't I know why anybody needs so many bedrooms in a house I agree with grand kid you got a I want to be clear I'm not going airb D in my head I I'm taking five bedrooms there too many bedrooms and in the future when someone else buys it you may be the most perfect owners in the world you can't control who's going to buy it from you so it's not about you mark with all due respect chair share uh Dave's concerned about Airbnb is overflowing the street you know it's in town it's a more congested part of SE right and I wouldn't want to see this rented by groups of people gra you don't have to pay me due respect for that I agree with you it's just that's not in my head right now I know I I don't want I think I believe the owner already testified that they they don't have plans on renting right this is somebody2 million million house and he sells it let me let me just finish my thought I don't want to I also on the other hand don't want to penalize them for being honest they don't have any of these rooms designated as a home office or a family room they want to have four rooms so that they can have their kids down on the weekend or on the week and they're being honest with their application and I utilize them for that they can easily make one of those bedrooms a home office and easily make two others a family room using these bedrooms so I think we have to take that into consideration also I believe it's not a application simply renaming the roads on plan be EAS well yeah we can make conditions Steve that for instance one of the bedrooms not have closet space and things like that maybe we can take a little bit different approach you know take a little bit different approach I mean if he's willing to go that way and make it a non- bedroom and be restricted so is in the backro well if we would have to De booster well you would have to because you want you want future owners to know that that never well so so under the if there and I have to talk my but under the code when you submit for your construction plans you identify how many bedrooms there are in the tax records in the construction records all of that identifies how many bedrooms they're I understand that Mr Bean but when I go to buy the house I'm not going to look at the construction plans and see what the firm said to see how many bedrooms there are I am going to look at the deed to see the deed says that there's no bedroom allowed in that unit so I don't understand what the turn up on the title report I mean I have to talk my client of course offer you have to modify the pl by but for everybody SP up in five or four bedrooms there's still variance understood yeah EAS it's just easier for me with four bedrooms than is for five makes it a smoother vote and we all know how to count in this room I may I have a few minutes to just discuss and like M [Music] than we they're taking a break we still recorded we are still reporting should should talk about we really shouldn't be talking [Music] about whatever pause yeah we're off right we off yeah okay thank you pause not that we should talk about this anyway no one of my arguments in the counil is that when people come before the board and get relas off street parking why are they allowed to also get uh resident parking there the Redevelopment area to plan that they're not going to get parking taes anybody that has off street parking shouldn't get parking passes takes it away from the people who really need it for the Redevelopment area they're not going to get Park so they they don't use even use a garage how many of those garages are filled with gar wait you're asking two different questions you said carsel area they're not eligible for parking passes so not get you're asking a second question about the um about r inside on the train they put all this stuff anytime anybody appes for parking well it's not a question whe they have theage full question of um whether they have a garage a garage is not for storage a garage for parking a car it's a whole point and half of those applications all say the same thing tell somebody what to do yeah but they lose a street spot and then they don't use it if their application got approved because they provided sufficient parking in the garage and most of them did which most of them did and I can't tell you how many times I remember saying I remember saying there's a benefit to this cuz we're eliminating one car from the street that's going to go into the garage that's like basically every single application so it's like but they dry got then they get parking passes they don't use the garage they take up the street for the people who don't even have a garage and really need the space desperately they're taken away from the people who don't need it I agree do they pay for par I don't think so they don't pay for park right those are there's fewer there's fewer downtown build houses without pay for without parking spes Start parking lot people they to correct yes you're correct so it really deprives of people who really Des need parking spes yeah but you go and try to take those prop test away somebody who's on C going get a lot of love I I listen I think it's a practical thing and when I was campaigning I I actually have people in the downtown district say that to me that they can't find parking they can't raise their houses or whatever they don't have parking people say that to me and that [Music] Whately it's the right answer what people do yeah but if you said you don't get a parking maybe one in two May one anybody one I'll bring it up to the council I don't [Music] disagree the record we good thank you welcome back thank you uh I so uh we've had a chance to talk to our client they're okay with going down to a for bedroom um to accommodate the request of the of the board and then turn one of those into the den or whatever office won't have a closet and we'll agree would be restriction so the wall lines inside the floors will not change just take out one of the closets that we haven't really made a deter determination yet I mean they I suppose they could combine to fedrooms into one as opposed to having a den and a bedroom this this should be decided though because as part of compliance if this project is approved it has to be provided in accordance with the resolution for bedrooms in accordance with whatever is in the resolution so you have to make a decision either tonight or in the very with rans yeah comb two of the Grands all com spread them out make make three down there instead of four if this is approved the board should put sufficient comment in the resolution stating what what we're talking if you me another minute yes please if the board would be inclined to approve tonight I'd rather not have to come [Music] back [Music] you so David um you had a chance to obviously talk to our clients about the um floor plant yes and can you just explain what you're proposing to do to make the uh make this a four bedroom um dwell so so on the Upper Floor we're going to keep this bedroom that's currently there and three three bedrooms and an office well which which office I mean which bedroom is going to be turned to the office the front the front bedro bedroom five bedroom five just putting a different name on it yeah what are you going to do with the closet we're eliminating we're eliminating the closet will be converted into the into the bathroom space I'm sorry I'm trying I can't my vision isn't that good I'm I'm guessing if you eliminated that wall it would become part of the bathroom no that's going to become this area is going to become part of the bed part of the office where perhaps they would put a desk in that corner or buil David actually just talked to our client um they're going to make a bigger bathroom rather than that not I had the right idea yeah that's what I I think they might want to make a bigger bathroom I I personally would put a wet bar there with the pluming that's right there and and making a family room office like we're all talking about that's what I all right so you're so you'll you'll make that a back so that wall will be solid unless I could convince them to put the Web Bar you can still do that one in the bathroom yeah exactly okay and then it is the so then we're eliminating the back garage or or we keeping that back garage idea I personally would still want to keep the garage door back there I think it's their only access to get things from the front to the back so I would prefer they decided to keep that third space is there they need need but there still be still will be a parking varit as part of this according to the ordinance now you're saying it's 2.5 or well if this board want to call it yeah 2.5 Prov it yeah okay um I think that's it yeah the only other thing I just wanted to go through so so the existing foundation and all those setbacks relative to to the project um are are you proposing any changes that deviate from what's already there uh no no so if if you want I can go through the lot prescription um yeah let's do that okay the lot required in that area is 1,800 Square ft uh the lot that's existing is 1,699 um we can't acquire additional property to the left of us or to the right of us um so that's an existing non-conformity uh the minimum lot depth uh I'm sorry lot area was was what I just talked about lot width 25 is required 25 is existing um so there's no change there the lot depth 60 ft is required 67.9 ft is existing so that implies there's no change there the actual building um principal building front yard setback requires uh 5 to 12 feet uh what's currently existing is 4.1 um we are not changing it that's an existing non-conformity of the existing house and Foundation that's currently existing the minimum rear yard required is 15 currently what exists is 7.5 we're actually proposing 8.12 so before we go on to the next what's what is the difference between the 7.5 existing and to theine um I think she or they um went to a set of stairs that are no longer going to be be there I'm not really sure so I'll that to um the side yard setback 3 ft is required 1.7 ft exists um I believe that is on the east side uh there's no change to that that so that an existing non-conformity um both sides required uh would be 6 ft and 4.8 is provided and existing so if I do my math correctly the opposite side complies with the 3 ft yes uh in addition to that um the building height um my understanding 38 ft is allowed in this particular area we actually are at 38 uh 2 or 38 FT 1 and 3/4 in we are willing to reduce that 1 and 3/4 in to comply with your 38 ft height requirement thank you and that's consistent with the planner's recommendation as well correct it is thank you um the maximum Building stories two and a half are are provide are allowed um and based on your ordinance that's seems to be what we're providing and you you've marked your plans that revised A1 plan to indicate that that um plate height is no more than 2 feet correct we have okay um lock coverage is again existing the maximum building coverage allowed in this Zone by the way we're in a R3 Zone um the maximum uh coverage is 50% uh currently existing is 52% um we're not changing that the maximum lot coverage is 70% uh where're existing is 70 99.1% and we're proposing 78% so there is a slight reduction um in the maximum lock coverage from what is currently there to what we are proposing and again the engineer could testify too where that uh 1% or 1.1% is being picked up um minimum ground floor area required is 880 um and we are not um um changing that what we're proposing thank you just out of curiosity I know you've eliminated the height variant but you know uh next door the house next door at 22 it's in the photographs how this height compared with that height uh I actually have their application in front of it okay with the [Music] drawings that were submitted to the board at the time of the application whether or not it was built in accordance with us we'll assume it was I don't know and obviously it wasn't cuz he was here seeking bar on the fireplace tonight oh is that is that bar okay so I was laughing I went down there if it was built in accordance to this approved height there 371 and2 okay so you a little bit taller yes the discrepancy between their plan and our plan is he had 8T 8T and 8T our client wants 8T 9t and 8T okay so that's why we are exactly one foot higher than what the neighboring house is um but we're willing to reduce the 9t to 8T 10 in order to come down on us board so chooses to grant us the 382 in if if you can come I mean I think we all want to come down site right I'm not here oh it has a 3ot railing on top of it too so the house next door has that as well um in to jump back to the other other thing you're claiming this is 2 and 1 half story house not a three story house correct you're saying that wall from the ceiling from this from this the top of the floor joist of the third second floor you only have a two 2 and 1/2t twoot 2T High the wall which is part of your ordinance allows how can that [Music] be it it's hard to see with the coloring but there is a dimension here showing where the raft where the manord roof Rafters are stemming from which is 2T above that floor I couldn't see it either so David it's not it's not from where it's not from where the uh overhang is it's actually from a little bit higher where that twoot corre plate meets correct so you have you have to extend it up from from the floor straight up correct yes so you go to grave and go straight up yes I think your board engineer could could I'll tell you what I've been building houses for 40 years and I can't see how you're doing that at least not in this picture it's impossible it's very difficult to see um I missed it myself you can't let me explain what let me just explain what he what he's saying you may not agree he's he's putting a a knee wall starting at the bottom of that floor of that third floor or 2 and 1 half story floor and you can see it dashed on the plan as a 2T High Little parit Wall where it meets the outside of the uh the maner roof that has that's on an angle it's really hard to see it is and when and when we do the actual construction drawings we'll depict that more your it's right it's right there it's really it's on this first page really oh that back line is a new the new line no the um there's a dash line that you can barely barely see it's I didn't see it until tonight so that ra so those rafs are hanging over the pass it uh come down I suppose if you if you wanted to be more true you could ask him to raise the man up and and and and make it start at top of that I think the man has to come in a little to be able to sit on a plate it's up here okay well the architect should explain it is sitting on a plate you see this doted Vol oh that picture is different than this one this one way out here yeah it helps with it being colored I think yeah all right that's different and that's the two foot that we indic okay this picture is definitely way outside well he's creating like false roof yeah but that picture looks more feasible in this picture it's not yeah we're we're used to uh the roof starting the man roof starting at the top of that yeah not having a continuation down beyond that like a false roof now now this in comparison to 22 okay which has a very similar roof or almost identical to what we're proposing the difference is their roof on the street side is right in the same plane as the face of the house okay what we chose to do is set it back approximately four or 5 ft to create a balcony in the front and also alleviate this being straight up like the house adjacent to it a little less overwhelming it's a lot less overwhel good job thank you and as you were talking reminded me of one other question I have to ask you and that's the location of the chicles yes so the existing Mechanicals for the house now are on the side of the dwelling we would like to keep them there if the board allows us to if not the second alternative would be to place them in the rear at the ground level of the house the side of the building they' be within the setback we would be in the setback but what we would do is we would Elevate them so again emergency access can penetrate around the building un obstruct all right what's the difference between the edge of the house and the property line uh the engineer testify to that I believe we repl it on the side that has the 4T 4T 1 back um that had a minimum I'm sorry 3 one 3 one in the front and it's larger in the back I believe yeah so he doesn't they don't show it and it would be at above the flood plane elevation they would be what about putting them on the roof again they're not sit walk side the house you have narrow side Lin someone to work on it they would have to be in the neighbor's property well the the problem with the roof okay is yes it's out of the way um from the ground level and everything else but if the client is not here and it needs to be serviced okay somebody has to access the house to get up on the roof um if they were hung off the side of the house they could be serviced at any time by anybody without access to the prop to the premise you just have to come down and leave your repair people you should be there with your repair people anyway um it's just you just don't have the side guard to put them on the side of the house and the rear y would be in the set pack also okay the the third the roof is really the only well the third option okay would be to locate hang them off the building here underneath the existing house and if if you're above the flood plane as long as we're above the flood plane and we have the clearances by the manufacturer the car back there of the cars is going to be the way the air so if we have the horizontal unit we can set them higher um and again the home next door actually showed them and depicted them hanging under a little patio area that they had as well yeah but they weren't using that as par no well neither are we at this point bedroom well no but it's still you still need spes so you know again but if we were to hang them here I would think that we would still have access to pull the car underneath they wouldn't be into the setbacks they wouldn't create a a nuisance with neighbor more there's going to be more than one system in this house two systems so where you going to put the air handler for the for the uh for the second store by putting them up here they also become a nuisance to 22 who also has a rooftop deck so while they're out there as well it potentially could affect them as well whereas either in the backyard into the setbacks or underneath here if we could get that to work probably makes the most sense what is the width of that area that you have for the bar space in the Val this area we may have on plan under the house it's roughly 12 ft wide from from the inside face of the pier to the face of the and you know the height between the ceiling underneath ceiling in the ground I believe ft so if I was to locate it back here you'd be able to pull your car in the hood would be underneath that area and there wouldn't be any obstruction because only one system too you would hang them both yeah you have 12 ft correct where's the air handle that's what we're talking about F be the furnace is going to be inside from this from can't we defer that to Dave and have improved to Dave that it works no we can just condition our approval on the mechanical of not being in the sidey set Bo or rear yeah structing that backyard area if they want to car back there if it if it's hung in the back I'm not mistaken that's going to be the rear yard set yeah that that is remember we have to pull it in it's only 8 only have 8 ft from the end of the building to the rear proper how you going to get all the duck work up to the third floor it's impossible all that they the problem is the flood plane uh is is is high enough where I think I think you're not going to be able you you only have 2.2 ft in there so how high of a of of a compressor can you get again looking at they and and this was just given to me the other day yesterday um 22 has the exact same condition and they're showing their Air Handlers under a similar we talk about the condensers where the condensers yeah that's what I'm referring to I'm sorry they are showing them in simar it has to have air flow above it that again we would make sure that we could conform to the manufactur a big deal not putting it on the roof we gave the same restriction to the other OPP at 22 not be side set by or yard set so I'm not so it would it be a a medic to the board if we could get it to work here based on your Township engineer's approval that we located here if not we would place them on the roof an air handler has to have vertical air yes I understand that how can you stick it up onto a ceiling where the vertical air going okay it's impossible you only have 2.2 ft between the flood plane and the bottom of the ceiling according to what I see on the pl have uh yeah like 4T the BF is 80 and the design elevation 11 yeah everything has to be 3 have a foot so it would it wouldn't work right but Dave you're saying you're saying definitively it would not work okay I mean I don't I don't hear any other options I mean there's either the roof or hanging off the building somewhere but I can't be in the side I can't be in the side unless you give a I'm sorry I think what Steve you know Steve made a good point that you don't want to have to be in neighbor's property in order to fix it yeah which you would have to be which you would have to be because there's no sideway right but there's a tremendous roof deck on here they take away six square feet of space that's going they have to put it on the roof they don't have a choice they don't have a choice it's got to be on the roof yeah no I agree to that that's we we will so so I your um we will comply with the setback requirement it will not it will not have a setback issue so you're not saying I don't I don't know where it's going to go but we won't have a setback issue but it can impede the use of the Third parking space asking for that's fine that's fine and I with what I think we're required a 15t set back there so I don't think we're going to be able to do that anyway I me you only You' be halfway You' be halfway into that space 15 more I have no problem with leaving with the Dave to make sure it's not in the setback and it doesn't obstruct that Third vehicle possibility that need flood zone requirement and meets flood zone requirement as long as Dave can confirm all that and they I don't care where they put it frankly as long as it which is probably going to end up be in the roof I mean if it's compant it's compant right so we might decide to put it on this deck level which is not the roof but you know if I locate them in this corner here and they're 15 ft off the back of the property it complies and it's not obstructing the third parking spot so that's why I'm I'm hesitant to say yes we're going to be mandated to put it there when as the attorney justify that you know we I just want to see the option and perhaps find another a better location for the CLI yeah I think that's it will conform to your if it's comping it's complying yeah if it's complying but it's stupid to take away deck space where you want to put a you want to put a a table and chairs out and on the roof houses I build with roof deck that they don't use them after the third year never ever go up there I'm not disagree I have plenty of neigh with roof they're up they're up there the day they move in andbe go to so when your furniture blows off the so to address this issue I'm actually looking at the resolution for 22 Mechanicals are not to be placed in the setbacks and that's and that's acceptable to us yes I believe that was your comment and the only other thing we don't want in setback we don't want it obstru that Third vehicle which is going to be set back anyway I understand so so and that's fine we'll we'll agree to that you like that idea don't you it's better than nothing so you have an engineer that's going to testify yes because I would like to to find exactly what variances we we're looking at back for so maybe we should do that before the engineer yeah actually just went over that he did he just went over every s he just went over every he did but not I'm just trying to narrow it down and and he may have and I missed it but uh we've talked about all of them separately just what what exact you don't have ai we don't have a and you don't have ai you they existing non-conforming side so if I may just if I do you mind if I do that so what Dave just testified to according to our zoning chart um there is an existing non-conformity the required lot size is 1,800 ft and the existing is 1,699 s ft the front yard setback requirement is 5T to 12 ft the existing and proposed is 4.1 ft the minimum rear yard setback is 15 ft F the existing is 7.5 ft and we're proposing 8.16 ft and I will have the engineer testify to what the differences the existing one side sidey yard setback variance 1.7 ft existing and proposed the existing both sides setback variances side setback variances is 6 ft required 4.8 ft existing and proposed um Building height is conforming the maximum building coverage is is 50% allowed 50 52% exists and that's what's proposed the maximum lot coverage 70% is allowed 79.1% exists and 78% is proposed the engineer will testify to the difference of that also if I could just add to that the the front yard set back where 4.1 is existing and proposed I think that's Inc conform in with a lot of the other structures on that street and one more variance that we were just discussing is the uh parking spaces three parking spaces you going provide well we can't provide two and a half it's there's no right correct which is not a fully compant par still is parking you're literally providing two two and 3 son public anyone in the public have a question about the testimony this fine gentleman just gave us fine gentan did you say I did I your you want anyone if not public portion is closed you have another witness I I have Jennifer white she will come Insight engineering thank you and her testimon just going to be very limited very quick [Music] yes quicker Jennifer if you can your right hand be sworn do you swear the testimony you already give here tonight should be the truth the whole through nothing but the truth yes and please state your name Jennifer white and Jennifer engineer from uh New Jersey licens in New Jersey for four years for four years yes Mr chairman I've seen her many times yeah I was just going to say I recognize her face so Jennifer um two variances that we talked about that are change conditions but actually improving conditions yes the first is the rear yard setback the existing is 7.5 ft but we're proposing 8.16 ft what's the difference so the 7.5 ft is measured to this Landing here but we're keeping the line of the house and now that's to 8.16 so Landing is going land is leaving house is go and is that the same reason why there is less of an appro coverage Yep this uh coverage back here this whole area um because this sticks out more than the house does it equals 1.1% okay and that results in those two changes yes and the only other questions I have for you about um do you have any issues uh or concerns that you want to discuss about drainage on Prop we're going to direct all the drainage to the front of property through the down spouts and away from the neighbor so all none of the down spouts will discharge back here it'll all be front and you'll accept that as a condition and all that's the way they learn and um that's that's no different other than directing them the conditions are really no different because it's existing Foundation correct correct we're not changing anything to the land thank you welcome and will you agree to also I have an item in my letter about the sidewalks if any sidewalks are broken or cracked or ruined during the destruction they will have to be replaced Y in accordance with the standards yes put as a them [Music] to it says concrete apron but I think there's a curve there but I have a picture picture to do see I wouldn't bring you your phone here so if they have to replace the curb and sidewalk there might be a small amount of Municipal bonding that's required because it is in the right way yes you agree to that yes yes anyone else have a question for the witness engineer anyone in the public have a question of the engineer or her testimony not public portion is closed thank you very much and I would bring up my last witness Andrew J good evening who has testified many times before this court yes I have you can please raise your right hand to be sworn you swear the testimony you ought to give here tonight should be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and please state your name while your Andrew Janu j a n i w Mr Janu your licens as a professional planner are current I am and they are great um than Mr Jan if you could just go over um why you think the variances that are requested this evening are appropriate and should be appro uh certainly so the variances were discussed in detail uh what's important to understand here is that your master plan and your uh planning for the future anticipates reconstruction because of a lot of flood damage here what's uh what your master plan underscores is that it should be consistent with the pattern of development that's going on in their and should be should honor the character of the community I think we achiev that and you can see we're almost a mirror image of what's Happening next door to us uh with respect to the uh variances that we're seeking uh we are improving two conditions slightly uh we do uh further at least two purposes of of the municipal land use law which we're required to do in order to gain public purpose for our variance relief and those are to uh put appropriate population densities in location Zone foran and to uh redevelop with the cost cost considerations in terms of efficient use of land U and in this case we are looking to use utilize an existing Foundation uh we are taking building down to that in order to provide an updated modern structure um that will provide some longevity for the structure the variances that we're seeking would qualify as C variances um sport knows there are two types of C variances in C1 which is the hardship variance and the C2 which is the balance test uh with respect to the deviation on the lot side that is the hardship variance we can't acquire any more property uh this isn't a self-created issue it's just been undersized a lot and that being said it's a slight size about 100 square ft under what's proposed uh the balance of the variances would qualify under the C2 balance test um they are uh essentially mimicking the setbacks that are there today that setback has been characteristic on that lot for many many years I believe this house dates back to 1937 pursuing to your tax records uh we are improving the lot in terms of appearance and and functionality uh we aren't exasperating any of the setbacks here we want the front side and rear yard setbacks we're actually improving the rear yard setback slightly by moving that staircase to the interior uh we're decreasing slightly the impervious coverage but the lot has proven to function properly with the coverage that existed and will continue to exist so when we look at this on balance um I do believe uh that the benefits here outweigh the detriments uh we're creating some reinvestment into to the community into an area that is now starting to thrive again um and we'll be continuing to see such reinvestment in the community as as as drive by you see a lot of reconstruction going on um when we look at the uh Five Points of the uh balance test this does relate to a specific lot we do further at least two purposes of the municipal land use law uh the benefits here I do believe that way the detriments the detriments here when we're looking at those I talk about the nuisance test are we creating any addition traffic drainage issues noise um this will function as a single family home it's owned as a single family home I don't see anything here that's going to be uh out of character we had long discussion about how we meet the uh ordinance with respect to height so we are consistent with that pattern and then finally in terms of furtherance of your Zone plan and master plan I think we're consistent with the goals of the master plan I think this is the type of reconstruction Redevelopment that's envisioned within the community so on balance I do believe it's a good application and with the adjustments that we made this evening uh this board has valid reason to Grant this variance thank you thank you no other questions anybody have questions no B have everything was discussed if it wasn't moov I would you want me to go through the conditions or I I'm sure that you have the no mechanical in the setbacks I'm not sure uh [Music] some restri there nothing the setback can can obstru the parking area in the back the deed restriction remove the walls OS go down to 38 down and to meet the and to ur the A1 plan meet the ordinance definition for the half story and uh train down spouts should be directed to the front of the property right and uh any damaged curbs or sidewalks to be reped no what I'd like to do is say that that the bond bonding will be required for uh curves and sidewalks because actually the the the site plan needs to be revised um because it shows an apron there and there is no apron out there so I don't know if that was a surveyor's error or what but um so that should be revised and then show a new uh driveway with a new concrete apron and a new curb which will then be bonded because it's Municipal I don't give you open open question I know get to that I'm trying to be polite during this um is there anyone in the public that has a question about the witnesses testimony or word a statement in general statement in general thank you sir thank you thank you public persons closed discussion I'll make a motion to approve the application as presented with the conditions that then just second the roll call please BS yes Mr casmore yes chman yes chairman yes said yes thank [Music] you he said yes also yes yes and thank you guys for working with us seriously thank you I know we seem difficult it's pretty tight down there yeah we have thank you all for your don't [Music] believe our next meeting is on February 13th is there any other business before the board this evening I'll make a motion to Mr chairman meeting