runda council member council member rotunda yes council member am yes council member condos yes council member Connor yes council president will yes motion approve and we'll Seaside Park County botion state of New Jersey advertised for Thursday July 18th 2024 to be begin at the conclusion of the work session which has now just ended pursuant to the provisions of New Jersey's open public meetings act adequate notice of this meeting was properly provided by transmitting the notice of the meeting publication the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger on June 28 2024 notice of the meeting of the governing body also has been posted in the corgo at the municipal building and in the office of the municipal clerk roll call council member Amil here council member condos here council member Connor here council member craft yes here council member Rend here council president wi here mayor Pearson here thank you and let us all rise for a moment of silence to be followed by our Pledge of Allegiance I pledge to of the United States of America and to the rep for it stands Nation indivisible liberty and justice for all the first item on the agenda is approval of the minutes for July 1 2024 a work session July 1 2024 a regular meeting any uh questions comments or if not a motion make motion by council president will second by Council member CRA roll call council president wi yes council member craft yes council member amille yes council member condos stain I was not here at that meeting council member Connor yes council member Enda yes motion approve next special uh minutes for July 2nd 2024 special meeting uh is there a motion motion moot by council member C second by council president W call uh council member CRA yes council president will yes council member iMobile yes council member condos yes council member Connor yes council member Rend yes motion approved and next we have payment of claims 224 230 approving payments for the itemized claims Bill lists as set forth for the time period July 2nd to July 18th 20124 there a motion I'll make that motion May motion by council president W second by council member craft roll call council president wil yes council member craft yes council member Emma yes council member condos yes council member Connor yes council member Renda yes moove next are resolutions number eight I'll read in summary fashion 231 awarding a contract of fyat through the sourcewell Cooperative pricing system contract number 011 authorizing membership within the B Seaside Park Volunteer Fire Company 233 authorizing the adjustment of designated water sewer you to of the accounts 234 approving the appointment of an employee as a seasonal labor laborer for the Department of Public Works 235 authorizing the execution of a memorandum of understanding with Ocean County for usage of the Ocean County Sheriff's Department Law Enforcement Training Facility 236 authorizing the adoption of the IED lightning emergency action plan 237 awarding a contract for rrt renovation to renovate the J Street Community Center bathroom 238 awarding a contract to Winter Ford 239 resolution vigorously opposing the industrial offshore wind project 240 authorizing a shared service agreement with the county votion for the reimbursement of funds from the American Rescue fan uh plan act for fiscal year 2022 fiscal year 2023 MJ do Municipal a road programs improvements to Bay View Avenue phases 1 and two for the $350,000 Grant and that concludes the resolution uh agenda any comments from any council member and I have a couple small comments yes um resolution 231 just wanted to mention this to the audience to the public this is a replacement and the 160,000 was budgeted total cost with the trade in that we did is $120,500 was budgeted but what we're doing right now for a cost of 50,600 $79 we're just buying the Cav and Chassis only the utility body will be purchased separately and there's no quotes yet on that that's all I have now any other questions comments from Council I just want to make on a positive note I'm happy that seems like at almost every meeting we've had approval of members for the Volunteer Fire Company which I think is an outstanding thing to see on our agenda because we've been desperate for volunteers and many of these volunteers are now younger volunteers and if you came to the you know the housing you saw that and I think we should continue to encourage it so that's a positive thing from my perspective to see that on here and then just for the record as we've discussed earlier on the lightning I support as resolution as is with their current plan with the you know condition that we will bring that up again at a work session and um just so that I don't go to bed not have responded to Dr Joseph um I understand your point but I guess one of the things that you said that kind of makes me not want to even consider you know not supporting it is philosophically um well let me back traffic you're saying that use the example of Seaside Heights might get grant money we don't that may very well be the case but philosophically I think that's so egregious that I don't think that we should bend on what we believe in for our burrow and for our state in order to get favorable impression it should not be contingent on how we feel against the state position I respond I don't think so respond to me afterward to go on record with that thank you any other questions comments from Council if not it's our practice to go into the audience and allow any comments on resolutions it's not uh required by law but we do allow it and uh with that I'll turn it over to the audience I agree with you it is egregious and it shouldn't happen but my point was it's not necessary to do this resolution if the resolution said we the governing Council and mayor and we believe most of the people in Seaside Park object to the wind farms being proposed for ocean wind one or whatever it's called and that was the extent of the resolution then I take back 98% of what I said I'm still against the resolution but I don't think it pisses anybody off but the resolution is written so full of propaganda and innuendo and exaggerations and nonsense that all it does is embarrass us and it's designed to piss off people at every level of the government so write a different resolution and I'll take back almost everything I said but the way this one is written anybody who looks into this frankly if they can stop laughing long enough they will come to the conclusion that this town is an embarrassment and I like living here and I don't like be embarrassed by the things that the town does and and that's my issue thank you any other comments on the resolutions hearing thenone I'll close the public portion and uh entertain a motion as a consent agenda from Council I'll make a motion now motion by council member Conor second by council member Renda roll call council member Connor yes council member rotunda yes council member Amil yes council member condos yes council member craft yes counc president will yes motion approved and that concludes the written agenda anyone else on Council obviously we We join and hoping everyone uh takes the time we have a happy event scheduled on Saturday uh the second the fruits on the bed were so successful for the 125th that uh everyone came together and said we've got to do this again and we are so uh it was a fun event last year and hopefully it'll be duplicated this year anything else motion by council member brunda second by council member alab roll council member anavil yes council member Renda yes council member Condes yes council member Connor yes council member craft yes counc president wi yes and thank everyone for coming out --------- to order this is a work session of the mayor and B Council Par County state of New Jersey held on Thursday July 18th 2024 advertised for 6 p.m. pursuant to the provisions of New Jersey's open public meetings act adequate notice of this meeting was properly provided by transmitting the notice of the meeting for publication in the asur Park Press on the star lger on June 28th 2024 notice of the meeting the governing body also has been posted in the corridor of the municipal building and in the office of the Municipal Court roll call council member an council member condos here council member Connor here counc member Council membera here council president wils here mayor pear the way the first item for informational purposes there's issuance of a landfill check to Ocean County that's on the bill list and that came about as a result of the necessity of the Ocean County to receive same in a Time matter but that's for everyone's uh informational purposes only there are uh a few items next on the work session agenda uh to go through as reasonably and quickly as possible and obviously what we had talked about and focused upon was uh to be a Roundtable uh discussion uh between the governing body uh and the Bayfront advisory committee uh all of whom are here uh today we welcome them and thank them for their help uh so as such this was already advertised for a public meeting work session as well with the regular meeting to follow the items uh on the agenda there is a discussion first of a memorandum of understanding with oan County Sheriff's Department for use of their training facility it's listed as resolution 224 235 for consideration on the regular meeting uh this evening as well I think that came up at the last uh meeting uh we talked about that literally just arrived at the date of the meeting and uh that is in accordance with test practices in the county there's a cover letter from the uh deputy director Quinn the Board of Commissioners related there too and that training center is open for use by all the municipalities including ours any questions comments for Council on that item the next is discussion of a revised lighting emergency action plan that too is listed on the regular meeting agenda it's resolution 224 236 for consideration of the regular meeting uh with the uh activation of the uh lightning emergency action plan uh necessitated you must have in place uh a actual procedures which we have now proposed and adopted as we had procedures previously and this set of procedures was run by the Ocean County Joint Insurance Fund as well uh it has a lightning emergency action plan and any questions comments yes yes um on the lightning emergency plan I know a lot of people know that we put up the the lightning I guess system now that we didn't have before we had a system that was more of a handheld manual if you will system now we have an automated system that will allow you know for Sirens as well as strobe lights so this plan then sets in motion what those hours of operation will be for both sirens and strobe lights um but I guess I'd like to still discuss now our agreement on those hours um it's proposed in here not :30 to 5 7 days a week but I know there was discussion in um among some of the committee that I mean myself personally I don't think those are long enough hours um for a couple specific reasons the first is that we give use of facilities both before and after those hours so we have people that do yoga on the beach that starts well before 8 9:30 in the morning and we also have events after 5 CL like tight night and we do Yola on the beach we do sound balls on the beach we have walks that go on on the weekends that start way earlier than that so I would still like to discuss I mean if anybody else feels that way or not I I know that these hours are set with you know when we have our life guards our Beach is open yeah I agree with you Council well I think I think I think part of the problem is the if you look at the plan to implement the plan it requires us to have our lifeguards our Watchers the plan has a very specific uh operation with regard to how things are going to occur and and the way they're going to occur is with our staff being present and if the staff isn't present you cannot properly Implement that plan and that's going to pose a substantial life ability risk as far as I'm concerned we I did bet this through Tom Melle a risk manager at the GIF and he agrees um he said some people some places do maybe a half hour earlier or later but if you look at the plan to implement this plan it requires our weather Watchers to be present it has our lifeguards present doing warnings uh on and on and if we don't have the staff there to implement the plan then the plan cannot be implemented and that's going POS a substantial problem so I think as far as that's concerned it has to be the hours of operation of the beach uh when our staff is present to implement the plan um we can't just have lights and Sirens going off uh and people don't know why or what's going on because we don't have our staff there to implement the plan I think that's that's the import of the of the the necessity of the hour Council we sorry can we change that doesn't make any sense to me that do make any sense to me only for then why even have them if the lifeguards are the only ones going to do it why even have the sir in the lights because when they leave that goes off good is happen my opinion can we change the plan can we change the plan and say listen we have we want to go maybe 12 hours this plan is through the municipal excess liability best practices there are memos on it that we did send to uh Miss uh KW our business administrator and I think she did distribute them to members of uh Council mayor and Council and it's pursuant to those bulletin plans that are put out by our insurance carrier on how to implement the plan so this isn't a matter of well let's just put it on when we think it's going to be a good idea to let people know you have to have a plan if you don't implement the plan then don't have the system is going to be the answer from an insurance standpoint it's just like our lifeguards if you don't want to have any risk don't have any lifeguards on your Beach have no lifeguards ever and everyone swims at their own risk but that's not what the town wants to do and most towns don't want to do they want to have lifeguards they want to help people so when the lifeguards are present then we have you know we have liability issues but the lifeguards are present and they're present for a reason same thing with the lightning system in order to implement that plan of what to do how to get people off the beach where to direct them where to go where it's safe is it 10 mil out is it 5 miles out you need staff to implement the plan it's just that's the way it is from an insurance risk standpoint so can I ask a question then I don't know if it's to Karen for the system so am I to assume then based on that in the plan we're calling them these weather Watchers I guess a backup Watchers in the plan that you need a weather Watcher to actually set the siren off I thought it was an automated system we would programmed to do that the system is fly automated we program the dates and the times um the weather Watcher comes from the model plan um that's been distributed through um uh mow excuse me what happens in September they have to live they no life guards no weather Watchers the system doesn't work we have the strob light right the strob light the system doesn't work because there's no weather Watchers on the beach then and people do go on the beach in September at their own risk correct like the beach correct okay so councilman car in this plan the system is only active Memorial Day you get through Labor day but but the strobe light yeah at night it doesn't no money for nothing I guess I just want to respond mrar yes we saw what was sent so I don't want to say that I didn't receive all that I did I still don't feel like it's making any significant difference than than what we currently have in place and yet we invested in this so that we would have a more automated system that could be used in my opinion for wider hours I understand the liability piece maybe I don't understand it as well as you do but um is there a reason we can't extend those hours to at least the hours that we have use of facilities even though there's no life CS there I mean people walk on our Boardwalk I mean people sit on our beaches we do kite night with kids and families until dck I think Su my opinion that's I guess that's my biggest concern on this so to me those hours are inadequate for the activity that we actually support promote here in town my opinion I I agree with it people right now will know what they are and as time goes on they'll know the same thing that when the siren goes off when this they know what the siren's all about when this sir goes off maybe tomorrow they won't know but a month two months down the road they'll know what that means cuz the one will get out hey you see those SW lights you hear that thing it's lightning oh no can't can't point it because there's no life card to tell you you get off the liability there if that's the liability I want to protect Seaside Park of course but I want to protect the residents also so is there a happy medium well if you look at Instagram the public already noticed the other night in that storm they took a picture of the the sirens and the stroke and picked of the lightning Flash and said the system's not working why is it here and that that the word is getting out councilman the word is getting out Jerry people know they're there because we've tested it they've seen the strob on I believe when you were doing the testing I think we you know had seen a preliminary video of you know I guess citizen education video If you will that'll describe what the The Rules of Engagement are I mean I know it could seem offensive or maybe you know I don't know it's not offensive to me I live right across the street to the Firehouse so I'm used to Sirens all the time and I'm always grateful for them and I have neighbors who are not grateful for them they're like well everybody has an electronic device why I have to do it I said well what about those kids who are riding their bicycles and to me I taught my children when you hear that get to the side of the road that means there's going to be emergency vehicles coming so it's a warning system for everybody and we invested money to do this and I just it's fine if this is our starting hours but I I really don't think it's out thank on the full agreement Council well with the further discussion ahead on other issues why don't we consider perhaps adopting the plan and then revisiting this uh some of the issues May border on Executive closed Manns but uh more importantly this could be looked at uh at a work session in the future uh one of the issues I know that the CH is concern about we're appointing weather Watchers uh our senior lifeguards uh they weather Watchers and there's an alternate but they're not there if this were an operation after hours so that issue must be looked at to avoid liability uh at the very least Consulting with the lifeguards involved and U how best who would be assigned after hours uh so there there's a lot of risk there in terms of what the J had Rec I understand I guess I just would like to know like when we get the call from whoever it's going to be that's up there on kite night and a storm rolls through and it doesn't go off what's the response that we give because of the GIF we can't turn it on it's can I just throw something else out um I know we have the hours at 9:30 to 5 here which is lifeguards and the weather Watchers who are the the officers are generally there like 10 of n 5 of n there's people there cuz all the lifeguards are coming in to start the workout and things like that right at the the 9:00 hour um so at least doesn't make sense to have the hours there's somebody there and they can do whatever they want a lot of people are going on the beach at 9:00 because there's no badge Checkers etc etc now eventually we catch up with them all um for badges but a lot of people go on at done obviously a lot of people go on five too because the B Checkers come off Etc so I got does it make sense to at least have right now understand what you said May to at least have like the hours from 99 to 5 right now uh instead of the 9:30 to 5 at least because there are weather Watchers the the officers are lifeguard officers are there not not I'm sorry they're not at their and so is their staff they're not at their chairs but they're all there at the headquarters and then they go out H the 9:30 I I I I'm with the council woman because I you know right Joe I mean as I was walking into the meeting there was a about 10 or 12 people walking up to the beach and they're going to be on the beach tonight if the Lightning goes off nothing's going to happen because the lifeguards aren't there then why why do we buy this system if we're going to use it just 9 to5 when the lifeguards are there and make then why do we buy the system so we got to work my opinion we got to work our way around and see how may we can do a 12 maybe and we can't do it for liability I don't doesn't make sense to me that's Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration this is the model plan put out by Noah the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration I sort of think they know what they're doing but that's okay uh I can only tell you my recommendation especially from an insurance standpoint what the insurance carrier has put out you can decide whatever you want to do all I'm going to say is this if you put in hours and you can't implement this plan you've got a problem it's quite obvious counil we so don't adopt this plan tonight if you're going to extend the hours because you don't have the staff to implement the plan that's all well we could as I guess the mayoros we could start it with what's in here now because that's what we've we know we can support and it sounds like you feel is the best from a protection of the burrow perspective I'm okay with that but I would like to then take it into another work session um although I thought it needed to be in a public work session and not a committee we do it in the next work session when we don't have a full agenda and look to revisit it I'm okay with that too because it's better than not having them in use at all which is what would happen we need to get it going okay but that is the caveat that we need to come back to it again I think we need to do it with the Post hours and the plan and as we get comfortable with it and we should be visited you can always modify the plant not in stone you can always modify it have to modify in a way that it can be implemented that's all after Labor Day this plan is no good because there's no life okay so we should have a special meeting whatever on the mayor we should have a special meeting and and has this out because I'm not I'm not satisfied from 9 to five for the lifeguards own I'm not satisfi you have to we spent all that money put that thing for was just to look good that's where I'm coming in I'm so full agree with you Council woman right thank you okay so anything else on this issue then there's a consensus to move ahead as proposed and have it on the next work session the next meeting yes my opion the next item uh is also on for consideration at the regular meeting and that's a proposal submitted by rrt Renovations for renovation of uh J Street Community Center the bathroom area and specifically its resolution 224 uh 237 it's on for consideration at the regular meeting this evening and that had been on numerous past agendas uh for the work session regular meeting with related issues and this is the last particular piece in order to make that uh new Community Center newly renovated Community Center fully compliant with the relevant Ada regulations and one of the estimates as as you can see was extraordinarily high but this one was well under the bid threshold with labor and materials of $14,200 and it references the work uh to be completed any uh comments questions from Council on that one oh may I review the tar proposal seems like everything is included that we need to comply meet the requirements yeah I concur with the counc work as well and the next item is a resolution uh there's a package of materials that uh came from Long Beach Township in particular it's relevant also the Ocean County had passed a resolution we've had as for informational purposes in the past and Seaside Park indeed had passed a resolution on this topic uh back when the issue arose uh Long Beach chionship has uh hired a number of different experts and as well as attorneys and they're uh involved with several municipalities in litigation as to uh the various offshore wind turbine projects uh off of Ocean County Shores off of the coast of New Jersey and the proposed resolution is uh asking that those uh projects be Revisited in terms of independent scientific review uh and especially in terms of the fact that some of them started in New Jersey for example by an executive action without an action of the legislature public hearings but there's a whole host of issues you see in the resolution it's also uh consistent it comes from mayor manini longreach Township and the all the materials that are provided raise issues from a whole host of perspectives many of which we had addressed in the past any questions comments on that item that's on for Action as well I think it's I think it's good as proposed I think we've talked about this at length for many different reasons and obviously the the recent news that probably everybody has seen that's happened where blades have now cre Fallen up on man I think it's Kentuck um you know and you have shards of fiberglass now floating in the ocean and is closed is a live example of what potentially we'd be looking at so fully the next is a discussion of a shared services agreement with Ocean County for fiscal year 2022 fiscal year 2023 three the municipal Aid Road programs and this particular is improvements to South B Avenue phases 1 and two that's resolution 22424 for consideration at the reg meeting and this is monies that have come to the B Seaside Park allotted by the county for intergovernmental there's an agreement related there too as well and this is 350,000 350 noting that it's uh matches the project costess as well so theoretically would be no money out of the seaside Parks SP for this project and that's on for Action at the regular meeting the next two items are directly related to what we had anticipated to be the main focus of this evening uh and that would be a Roundtable discussion of past events ongoing events uh proposals as to the issues associated with the Bayfront and by way of uh we're all well familiar with the unfortunate uh history uh and the issues as to the Bayfront uh it's fair to say I think everyone stands United the governing body the planning board the committee and other was to uh explore and Implement any and all potential actions to be taken in the most expedited way possible for reasonable mitigation uh Solutions plans uh action plans and the like um and the one letter which uh on its surface at least uh it's on the agenda it's uh nearly identical but it gives some different reasons that it's nearly identical to what the do had responded in the past um those of us uh involved over the years uh in terms of vron issues of I know the a quick summary that the council's aware of uh the The Proposal the plans that had been implemented and uh received permits back at a hearing uh June 23rd 2017 there was a meeting and that uh proposal entailed what was labeled to be an Upland seaw wall uh and that for one of a better term was a hardcap type of a proposal um and that was a subject matter of uh several public hearings with the uh Council and input given uh to the governing body at that time I was a member of the public at that time but I obviously we were all present at that hearing and there was some uh push back to the proposal because of its nature being specifically it was referred to in somewhat derogatory terms as the wall but it was a Hardscape uh proposal and the focus of many uh residents uh went to Green Solutions and potential living Shoreline mitigation uh Avenues to pursue uh and as such that particular plan at that time was modified and uh it led to a plan which had a hardcap component uh in it but it was primarily uh one of a living Shoreline on uh with uh also some wave attenuation aspects to it to break the power or the wave to the extent possible uh in terms of wave power to uh promote any such living Shoreline it also had the oyster re uh components to it uh that particular uh program uh was developed with a conjunction with input from a team of experts uh and we have uh with us tonight uh we have Pam Hiller of RVE engineering um also at that time the town had retained Dr Stuart F of the coastal uh Stockton Coastal Institute uh and I had reached out to have them uh come here tonight or at an upcoming time because he had indicated that he would do so and obviously he's a national expert and I know he wanted to focus and probably will in the future on uh some of the general concerns that we all share and that's the fact that uh unfortunately the land mass of the state of New Jersey uh it's geology is sinking uh at the same time the whole area the Bayfront and our state and our region are subject to the deletar is impact of sea level rise so New Jersey unfortunately has two factors ongoing at the same time coupled with uh and that's part of the focus of the ongoing investigation review uh digesting of proposals from other areas that have been undertaken uh for uh the Bayfront committee uh the advisory committee whose members are here this evening and we we thank them for all their effort along with the entire Council past governing bodies uh and included in that process uh we were met with a great deal of skepticism that the town would ever receive uh a permit from the D to extend out in the water uh what had been labeled as the U end point of the 1977 uh Shoreline uh which we were able to obtain a permission and a permit from the d uh for that one project that's a seven block project at the northern portion of the Bayfront unfortunately that project has never received a final permit however from the Army Corps of Engineers and that entity uh has continued to raise issues uh some have referred to those issues as somewhat fluid if not characterized as a moving Target but whatever the case might be whatever the issues uh the Army Corps itself has never given a final permit to that particular project uh and we've had funding committed to it now twice but uh that funding uh has been taken away because we haven't gotten that permit um at the same time with that that's a All Too Short history of all the many developments that have been ongoing uh through the work of the committee and through citizens through the council uh um most recently we've had a uh productive meeting with members of the Bayfront Committee of the council and the Bayfront committee whose members are here today uh and we hashed out a number of ideas proposals uh many of which had originated uh in the minds and thought process of the members themselves as well well as the governing body and the public and that was resulted in a multifaceted approach of addressing some of the many concerns from various perspectives uh and one of the thoughts one of the ideas that everyone uh came to some agreement on in fact a consensus was to try to implement a project that would not entail the level of Permitting especially from the federal agencies that being the Army Corps of Engineers and rather uh focus on things that uh we felt had a better chance of receiving an expedited review process of less a lesser number of agencies lesser whether they're state or federal um and part of that proposal entailed uh and now going to turn over the floor momentarily to those uh with some of the technical expertise but part of that proposal uh entail uh looking at the existing uh sheathing along the Bayfront and uh working to buttress that and U move to uh enhance it where necessary uh combined with uh our request for uh utilization in a far more effective way than it has occurred of the do pump stations that are located on seasid Parks Bayfront uh and as such uh as as a result of that meeting I reached out to the do and those that are familiar with history of this town and at least one other area town I believe there more than one had asked for permission from the do repeatedly to allow tie-ins to their pump stations uh we all know some issues and unanswered questions that have Arisen as to those pump stations of those in sead park and uh that's well documented in our Drone footage looking at what happens in flooding events uh with the recirculation of the water uh and they're certainly not functioning in the way that they could in terms of effective uh controls mitigation controls and the like so that was part of uh this proposal which is ongoing uh and as a result uh I had written the do even prior to that meeting and asked them they had denied Seaside Park's request on at least two past occasions so too they had denied the B man Ling's request the same request albeit you see in the letter they're saying that they look on these applications on what they label to be a case by casee basis uh so maning was some whatat shocked and they had a very recent turnaround and they were given permission to tie in to the one pump station in moking uh and that was one of the many arguments that uh I had focused on in our letter and this is the response that we've received most recently and I turned that over the committee has it as does Pam Hill of rbe and uh you see that response and I I know there are a number of arguments that would refute each and every point that has been raised by the do uh and for those who are here as members of the public I I would imagine everyone knows there's a great level of expertise seated at the table uh of familiarity with Bayfront issues engineering issues and experience in terms of Seaside Park and uh its history loving the burrow of Seaside Park if that's not too strong a term and being fearful that if some of these agencies do not act on an expedited basis and help us in terms of Permitting uh they are jeopardizing uh one of the gems of the Jersey Shore and not just jeopardizing the bay the homeowners the infrastructure of the town the quality of life here property values and the like and our safety and that was paramark in the this past winter as we all know we had uh four major storm events uh so that being said I'll turn the floor over perhaps I know uh the vprint Committees here how this plan most recently came about and there's a whole number of parts to it in terms of uh contributions partnering with Ocean County for example and uh they have have given preliminary very positive indications as to assistance and uh I know and the Bayfront committee itself we called upon their expertise to uh get to the front of the line in terms of uh as builts and other materials and past work that have been done by Ocean County and uh we thank I know members of the committee that did that and thank them for obtaining those getting them and our engineer has them uh so with that perhaps maybe Pam I'll turn the floor as to that particular part of the puzzle and obviously there's others but that's one of them thank you mayor um so so thank you for having me here today again my name is Pamela Hilla I'm with rington verick Engineers I'm a professional engineer who's um very familiar with with a lot of the the Bayfront um issues that the burrow uh encounters I was involved with the original design of the bulkhead and and dissipation project um I guess it it's going on eight years so uh unfortunately we're we're not really here to talk about the past there there has been permanent issues along along the way we're here to really open up um open up a conversation about some conceptual plans so at this point a lot of what's being done is being presented in a conceptual manner to receive positive feedback from the Bayfront committee the mayor and counsel from the public um to get to get the feedback needed for you know this to move forward in a constructive way so we can approach all the Regulatory Agencies and and get something permitted that's the goal you you need to come up with a design that's permittable in order to achieve the end goal which is to address not only some of the uh shoreline erosion issues but the main the main concern of the public is is the flooding okay so um we have received feedback and I would like to actually start off by by quoting something that we received specifically from US Army Corps just this week um on the project it it was a a correspondence that we had received from US Army Corps with regards to the living Shoreline that involved encroachment in the Waterway disturbance of the sa habitat and some of the feedback that they've given um I'm going to quote it from from email directly is please consider a bulkhead living Shoreline combination there the US Army Corps is specifically requesting that the project be modified to to be a bulkhead um a bulkhead would be the least environmentally damage damaging alternative you know this is an email correspondence that was received from the US Army Corps uh the D is involved Noah's copied on this email as well as very um many representatives of not only the US Army Corps but njd their main concerns is with the disruption of the sa habitat that's in the Waterway um so this has been a big obstacle as it relates to permitting um so I just want to I want to share that I want to share that with everybody and and and let you know that that that is been the biggest obstacle with moving these projects forward is whatever you propose and design it has to fall within the constraints of the permitting requirements if you don't you won't be able to build it so that that's you know that's you know I I've been dealing with NJB permitting for over 20 years so um I there's and it's constantly evolving they've adapted and they've changed things you know within the last six years they've they've been working with living Shor lines and trying to promote them but it is a moving Target and there's still restrictions and there's still a lot of restrictions as as to how far you can go so um I I do want to just before we I started with kind of going through the different options and some of the considerations to be just discussed today I I just wanted to bring that to the table from from a Perman permanent perspective can I ask you a question about that so now you've got a letter at list the sav as the primary H primary hindrance or concern to the court if you were to put in a living Shoreline and there was sa under where you wanted to put the living Shoreline is that not problematic in of itself well the the adaption of the living Shoreline is one it is the SE 1977 Shoreline is a huge Factor okay the the original project that that that was permitted did incorporate some Breakwater within the 1977 Shoreline which offers you a little bit more flexibility once you extend beyond that which a continuous Dune system does a continuous Dune system into the Waterway extends beyond the 1977 Shoreline and there was significant encroachment within the waterways that it takes it too far it it just there's there's not as much flexibility but you you are limited like you're going to have more limitations where you don't have a shoreline at all where you have an existing bulkhead you don't have any Shoreline the water is buted up against against the existing bulkhead you have to get creative you have to figure out do you want to encroach further into into Bay View so then you can create a break water between the existing bulkhead and and you know a new bulkhead or you know if you're going to do something within the waterways you have to one be within the 1977 Shoreline and two you know we have been successful we just we constructed a project for Berkeley Township off of um sebr Avenue and we've we also recently got permitted for a bulkhead and groin um at the end of uh Butler Boulevard that in incompasses a bulkhead with a hybrid living Shoreline which is Rip wrap and and uh submerged aquatic vegetation like there's a little bit of flexibility but there's limitations to how far you can go into the water regardless so so you may have a different profile for different sections of the Bayfront depending on you know where you're placing the bulkhead relative to the water um there may it it's going to be in my opinion more of a hybrid solution that you know that's one of the you know one of the things that I'm hoping we accomplish today is to receive some positive feedback of you know what kind of break water what kind of like materials what kind of elevations what kind of goals is the burrow looking to achieve so we can then sit down with NJ DP for a pre-application meeting N US Army Corps and NJ doot and all the Regulatory Agencies and get positive constructive feedback on a plan that you want and it it it will most likely have to change you know based off of their feedback to to you know fit within the permitting requirements but that's that's really the first step is to you know get get the feedback from the public from you know all everyone here today and have the pre-application meeting with the with the permitting agencies and and see what they have to say don't you think when any application meeting you're going to have the B the question of is there Sav anywhere within the range or where you want to put a living Shoreline we do not want yeah we do not want to serve sa like I mean the options are to I mean the options are to retreat personally that's my personal opinion and and not have Sav disturbance everything needs to be based on fact not in your W not we believe there could be this so what I'm trying to suggest is isn't the first step to really understand what we have with respect to sa all along the proposed area to know what our limitations are knowing that that's going to be a restriction in any permanent process we go for you have Sav habitat across your entire Bayfront so any you cannot encroach beyond the 1977 Shoreline anywhere and how do you know that there's sa everywhere well I've seen mapping I mean there there's was the mapping done this is my point we do not have current data other than the small study we did four years 3 years ago within that five block or eight block region there is G mapping I I I I've seen it I can share with you but there there there is mapping that's been there is historic mapping that demonstrates that the area you know Sav habitat it's not even just the existence of sa habitat it's the potential existence of sa habitat I mean you the the the the burrow over the years has done bulkhead replacement projects our office helped reconstruct the year after Hurricane Sandy everything had to be coded the the D you know looks at everything from J Street to 14th a the improvements you know they look at Sav habitat as being a design parameter to what materials are being used and and it is something that um can I comment so the I'm going to take it up a higher level a little bit rather than sa right now so the the mention goals objectives and things like that for the project that you'd like to hear so our our group met with the council and what happened was we had a really bad winter and and many people in town everybody in the 100e flood uh is had it up to here and and they really it's get very difficult to live in the area because of the hardship of living there with the water and everything so that's why we have a turnout tonight um we tried to uh quickly have a meeting with the council may it was very uh an agreement and we we did meet and and one of the main things was is to have a project a goal and objective is to have a project with with the least amount of Permitting and more streamlined to where we could actually get a shovel in the ground and do something so if that's in an existing right away an existing structure that we do under operation and maintenance and we do a replacement of that structure and we adjust it a little bit to where you know there's some uh you know flexibility we don't know what that is that we can do but to try to reduce the amount of Permitting and the timeline that that was an objective that we had in our meeting that's one of the recommendations we gave some recommendations to the mayor um and then also to take into account that we have a uh family resort here so so utilization of the Bayfront to the maximum extent possible uh would be good and having a natural Bayfront that we've always had would be another goal that we'd like to have not uh you know you step over and or not be able to step over uh and then hit rocks immediately and uh the energy is such that uh you'll never have the beach it'll always be rocks there and things like that rip wrap and things like that so and uh be able to have uh professionals evaluated such that uh there's a likelihood that the beach front there would not change from what it is today and actually be possibly augmented in the future and be more of a beach like it was many years ago these are simple objectives uh but the main one is that we want to be able to have people get access to their home so they live on the bay and they have uh boots and then they move up to hip boots and then they have waiters and stuff like that over the time and uh we want to try to address the flooding there and uh we've discussed a simple way is trying to use those pump systems to our advantage but as long as the water flows over the curve I'll just say it's a low concrete curve which exists in in many of the areas and there's bulkhead in other areas which the county has installed over the years what permits they got and and how they did that I don't know but it's installed in some areas in other areas it's just curve so so where the curve is and even where the pump stations are on seven water just flows right over and it just circulates as you know right so fixing that um and and one of the questions oh let's just tap into the pump stations right to me that requires a lot of calculating the thing was designed to do a third of the burough Seaside Park Ocean Avenue to Central and try to take all that water and pump it to the Bay um I don't know what the capacity is or anything like that so that has to be done and and any of these storm water studies that you have to do that's a big time consuming thing as well um and putting in new storm drains which are in here so uh having a timeline how long this as you explain this which you will be doing in a minute um how the the timeline is with permits and things like that we're trying to avoid a another 8-year uh time frame of here because most of us will be dead baby you know within that time or a wheelchair except ex floting your chair right so all right a time is of the essence type thing you know what can we do and not Band-Aid but something significant but to give relief to the people of Seaside Park so if there was an easy solution I would love to I would love to give it to you I would like to say oh we simply do this this and it would work but but the the reality of the problem is in order to stop the tidal flooding along the Bayfront you have to create a continuous barrier to stop the water from coming into the the Bayfront you have very low-lying roads that are lower than the tides okay um yards and the yards and there's garage floors that flood and and and but the the reality this is the reality of the problem is you want to cont you want to establish a continuous barrier between the bay and the road okay and you're going going to need an Avenue to get the rain water and storm water out of the road when it rains because you're going to hold you need to hold back the bay on one side and you need to push out the storm water on the other side and the pump has to be significant enough to be able to handle that um and you know one of you asked for uh input so uh in your plans you have it where you remove the existing storm water system and you r solely on the uh a new system that's plumed through the lift stations that's the initial conceptual plan so that and my comment to that is we're putting all our eggs in one basket there and if we have a problem with the pump stations which I see them working on those things all the time yeah and they take the generators away you know June to September August uh September um that's hurricane season itself so so we don't have a perfect system there with the pumps yeah a backup I think would have a be a better idea I would like to yeah I would like to touch on that because I and I I even have I mean I've highlighted specific correspondence received by the dot as well okay so there there is I would I would say a very huge obstacle is the dot pump stations okay is is there is there going to be an opportunity for a shared service between the county the burrow and NJ doot currently the dot pump stations do have a connection of the county there is a county Inlet that is tied into the dot pump stations the do specifically says as currently constructed the pump stations are not designed to handle the influx of additional storm water or tidal overflow that would result from the connection of local Drainage Systems it is something that they put in writing we've discussed it with them before okay but my my my point to that is you know we have opportunities there are opportunities if if it's the influx of storm water that the dot is going to stop the burrow from from connecting we can attenuate some of the storm water runoff to help reduce the influx and also demonstrate to them and I and I strongly I'm I'm a very strong advocate of this because I have drone video of of these pump stations in a complete state of failure under multiple storm events because of the flood ination these pump stations take on an infinite amount of water it's not like so the fact that they're saying they can't take off runoff from a street but they can take on the bay that's right that's not it doesn't make any sense to me so I think part of the argument is showing do that one you know we are going to make these pump stations better we are going to protect the pump stations with their support from tital flooding so one they work more efficiently and two it may be the burrow may have to do some attenuation which means some temporary storage of the runoff underground in larger pipes as well as water quality management you may need to treat the water mind you it is also a County Road Okay so there's opportunities for shared services between the burrow and the county but in no means is this like an immediate like this is going to happen o overnight this is the first step is to meet with the dot and talk about options and explain and like they they have to be on board and and the reality is the two pump stations at island and and nth sth they flood more than any other dot pump station that is constructed so they they flood so that that being said they are the least efficient pump stations there's pump records that can be opra that are going to show that those pump stations require the most cost and maintenance and by us connecting and creating this barrier we would actually help improve the pump stations work more effectively which is for the better of the general public for not only the state for rout 35 for burrow but also for the county so I I think that it's an argument that is worth pursuing um or the alternative is does the burrow and the county potentially want to construct and own and operate their own pump stations no I doubt that so so how are you going to pump the water out the second part is well rather than Underground ping to the system having just Street flow to it rather than having the other ground piping system that that's one the other is moving the storm drains we remove those groins that we have all there that's holding the beach together in my opinion that that's actually holding the sand and it's a structure out there going out offshore and that has a valuable resource I think to to to maintain those um and and I do agree up more they would actually do more ction for us as as having that groin every uh Street um and then that we' have those our recommendation was to maintain those and have an automatic gate valve system there so we can turn them on turn them off and then manage it hate to say it like the the the lightning system or you know you have to have a plan and you have to have confident people managing it and you have to have an effort there and it cost some money but you would have some type of system because if those pumps go down if we connect to two one pump or two pumps the one pump will handle the southern the other pump will handle the north of the yak if if one of those goes down we we may be having a catastrophic problem because the gravity ain't going to work anymore no those are the comments I had I just I don't want to stop you from presenting I agree that that there needs to be a relief and you know having you know I I'm not sure if if you feel that the actuated valves should be the prime solution or the backup solution to the it all works together okay I just want to make sure that's C be the secondary another time the actuated valves alone to support the outfalls you would still have you know it's a it's a system with redundancy some more with redundancy but it's also a concept that will allow you to do it step wise in a timely manner what Chuck is talking about can reduce the so-called nuisance flood as you described in your original presentation eight years ago significantly that nuisance flood your statistics said about 65 to 70% of the flooding at that time was nuisance it's chronic flooding right I think I've said many times it's very it's chronic flooding chronic flooding that's not storm related that's what you described it okay if you approach this in a stepwise manner dealing as Chuck pointed out with actuated valves better outfall system to control the I'll use the word nuisance but you've got a different word and then deal with an intelligent overtime solution to mitigate the 100e flood everything can be built upon one another nothing is being put in that can't be of value in the long term and IT addresses 60 to 70% of the problem in a much more expeditious and timely manner to release the headaches that these hundred or so people and myself and this whole committee are feeling regularly so P Pam only have two two things to say and then I'd like you to present what you have to present number one is for the audience to know that can you hear us not well it's always a problem exactly who was sitting at the table we've only had one person oh should we yes should we pass a mic around because I want to make are live is this working okay working and what is your background all right all right so where where do you live at Seaside Park yes okay where are your neighbors do you want the mic should we pass no I think it's picking up right here so this is our B front committee it started up a few years ago by the mayor we we basically assist the mayor direct we assist the mayor directly uh with recommendations um I'm the chairman my name is Chuck applebe I'm at 215 10th Avenue I'm one house up from the bay um I'm a I work for the dod Department of Defense I'm an Environmental Protection specialist I have a degree in natural in uh Coastal uh Marine Resource Management uh from Stockton uh I've lived here my whole life um I'm very familiar I liveed two houses away from where I live now uh so uh very familiar with the area and the mayor picked me to chair this and then we picked out certain individuals so Frank you want Frank G on the corner of first and B I'm a mechanical engineer by profession thank you uh my name is R 200 North B uh pretty much lifelong resident here in Seaside Park I'm a civil engineer and have much experience with Ocean County and many other engineering companies around great thank you Sher I'm Sher volano I live at 110 South Bay Avenue and uh I've been working on this uh trying to mitigate this problem with the flooding since I don't know 2005 maybe you were here with uh all the state and the county and um Federal that uh we kind of shared our thoughts and you may all have just received a letter from me and I thank you for all your email that you sent to me because I circulated this to all of our committee members and also to the council and all I have to say is we have been working with uh engineering companies for years and uh a lot of Engineers and I just want to tell everybody here and I know my committee but we need to address this situation and we need to do it right away and whatever hiccups there are let's get all these agencies that we want to partner with get them on at at their table and let's do a round table discussion submit the plan whatever the hip cup is maybe you can talk to them and and they can approve something or maybe they have an alternate I think we need to do it right away because all of us I live on the bay I do not like parking two blocks away and I do not like the water under my house as all of you are experiencing so it's now a crisis and I know all of the uh people along the Bayfront with all their emails they're Fed Up So Pam it's in your hands so what can you do to expedite this and um overcome these hurdles by getting these do together Army Corps together sit down iron it out introduction a realtor in town also a realtor so that that that expertise is your Mitch I'm Mitch coppelman I live at uh 10th Avenue two houses off the bay I've been there 20 30 years uh last two years I've also been a resident of santel Florida dealing with quite similar issues especially post hurricane in uh I have a PhD in Marine geochemistry so I'm somewhat familiar not so much with engineering aspects but with the coastal environment and the water chemistry and all the interactions thereof uh I think that's probably all you need Joe yeah my name is Joe schaer I live on Second Avenue not but on the beach so um I'm retired as a senior vice president of Northeast REMC cwell marine and uh where we built the Garden State Parkway from exit 988 to 91 the Bass River Bridge and a lot of flood control projects so I'm the guy that's probably most familiar with the constructibility of of these kind of systems does that answer your question thank you very much thank you all right Pam why don't you so I I I would like to continue can everybody hear me yes okay thank you um so I think that I mean all read shock I feel like there's been very good you know contributions that you know maybe a phased approach is something you know that would would benefit the situation so so the the the project you know the there's two options that were originally uh presented that I'm going to be discussing today um both of them involve doing a bulkhead along the Bayfront uh both both of them involve reducing the outfalls eliminate the the Open Water that allows the bay to come back um and and and flood the the roadway um and and both of them have you know definite obstacles that the bar would have to get through as it relates to the grading the elevations um regrading the the the Bayfront as well as you know providing adequate Public Access um so I do want to just I'm going to I'm going to go through just two of the options you know um and from a pering perspective I feel like that is another thing option one I feel like from the permitting perspective would be easier it would still require the permits but it would be easier but it would be more invasive as it relates to bayew Avenue um option two you know would be you know to try to eliminate reducing you know the width of Bay View Avenue which I feel from a permanent perspective would would definitely take more time and you know there would be concerns with the disruption of the existing vegetation that you know would would have to be discussed and and vetted out further um so just in summary I do want to briefly talk talk to the borrow with regards to elevations you know when I'm when I'm talking about elevations um it's relative to um the sea level so you know I'm I'm going to talk about elevation five I'm going to talk about the road elevation the existing Road elevation of Bay View Avenue fluctuates from 1.5 ft above sea level to about 3 feet above sea level okay um there is constant tidal flooding because the tides do exceed elevation of 3 feet frequently throughout the year as you are all aware um as it relates to the theme of flood maps just just for a little bit of a background currently the burrow is monitored under What's called the effective flood maps but the effective flood maps are being restudied okay so the current effective flood maps don't necessarily really reflect what occurred during Sandy or what currently occurs um there were I think some errors in in those the development of those Maps where they didn't model all the storm events that you know occur during Sandy so so they are currently re-evaluating the the FEMA Maps the preliminary maps that have not been adopted show a flood elevation of about 9 ft pretty much along the Bayfront Which is higher than what happened during Hurricane Sandy to be honest okay so um but but there are what's considered Coastal a zones which encounter wave action um especially J Street to island has significant wave action because of the large bench um in that in that area as well as you know the other areas along the Bayfront I mean wave action is is certainly an impact it's not just the flooding the rising of the tide it's it's the force it's the it's the wave action that continues to erode and and damage not only the shoreline but the infrastructure within Bay bayw Avenue so um I just want to give you a little bit of a summary so as far as um and as I'm stating this is conceptual in in nature based off with in the feedback that we've received from um from mayor and Council and some of the correspondents we've we've received um as a Rel to your meetings you know with mayor and Council um so the the proposed the proposed plan would to be um work to to address to create a continuous barrier that would extend from J Street from the marina um all the way to 14th Avenue which is the border between Seaside Park and and Berkeley Township just a question for context it'll help as you go through this what about the other streets how will this impact because for example I'm on Oak Street in the lagoon and we can't even get out to like walk our dog soed so this doesn't extend to n where there's M you know yeah I I apologize to you ma'am we'll take that one comment but we're under the restrictions of the open public meetings act so we really have to have people's names addresses and open it up for comment so with that one provider Pam uh if you want to take a stab at anyone on the committee I think it's suffices to say that the governing body is very very aware of that particular area that you're referring to and the issues associated with Itor I don't know if I I know that the the mayor mayor and Council have you know a plan to work on an overall mitigation plan um for the entire burrow um you know at this time the conceptual as is devel as developed at this point in time is is for the extension the limits are from J Street to to 14th AV um so thaten a long B Avenue yeah okay um that is what we're talking about this evening um so it would be composite sheating spanning from 14th to I Street um the option one would be constructed physically within Bay View Avenue so it would not it would not disturb vegetation it would be within uh an impervious area um how many feet in was that um so that is currently the crosssection we have it shown at um we're showing it 3 ft within within bayew Avenue but that is something that would have to develop further based off of if there's with regards to break water needs and existing utilities um so this is this is conceptual nature but we would need to verify existing gas main locations um existing utility locations in certain areas that may impact and there's also a a ramp system for walking yeah some ramps along D so that comes out an extra few more feet exactly and then we want to have enough space to where people can walk past that and around because they the prominade is is along the whole B so that's another can so at previous meetings there have been people from the public that have come up and said we don't even understand the term sheating or sheathing can you can you tell them what it it would look like so it's a corrugated uh bulkhead sheathing so it's it's a it it would be you know there's different materials um that that would be considered um whether it be steel or or a composite material that you know would be resistant to to corrosion but it's it's basically a quy it's similar to the bulkhead that's that's out there now but it would be um at a higher elevation and it would be further within the roadway um but as Chuck mentioned placing it in the roadway you're looking at redesigning Baby Avenue you're going to make your shoulders narrower and potentially your travel Lanes narrower right now W Avenue is a very wide Road um and the travel lanes are very wide um there would have to be approval and consideration and review with the County engineering department with regards to how the you know how narrow the shoulder and the lanes could up with a reduced speed at the end it could be a reduced speed you know and and and as you said it would it could potentially reduce between your pedestrian and and like you know bike pass you you'd probably you'd wind up having reduced shoulders um which is our objective would be to incorporate all that in in in the plan that we be for yes and as my understanding the burrow has been proed they tried having a meeting with the county this week um I believe the the assistant County engineer was away so um it it looks like there's tentatively maybe something scheduled for next week but the County's involved and is aware of the project and is going to be very involved with any alterations to Bay View as it relates to rips travel Lanes um and any modifications as needed but but in your opinion there's a lot of room to deal with I find B to be a very wide Road and when nobody's on it and you're driving you know I like it it's it's it's nice you know yeah but you can't have you can't have your cake and eat it too out you want to fix the problem you got to do all right we got out otherwise we don't do anything got yes so so this is option one so we're going to keep going um as far as the um the proposed height of the wall at this point we're looking at an elevation of 5T so that would be approximately anywhere from 2 to 3 feet above the existing grade of the roadway so it would be elevated approximately 2 to 3 feet above the existing grade of the roadway Pam question the the height at which you have to start having railings on everything is is that's something that's set in code to where if it's less than uh 36 in you wouldn't have to do the railing so we haven't solidified an actual height correct nothing is solidified as far as height make sure that we have the height to where it it adequately uh like Mitch said the percentage of flood of events IT addresses but yet it doesn't hinder any visual things or we want to try to keep that open and and being able to reduce the railings if possible by code I think that would be a preference the walkway show a railing go what way okay the access ways the public access ways I mean that would have to be discussed further but once you exceed a certain height rail hand rails are required and they may be it may be something that the wants a code we have to look at that and insurance code and insurance however the elevation relative to the road compared to the elevation on the waterw side there's going to be a difference right so so I don't that that would be have to because a dress it might be a higher so you may need handrails regardless based off of the the height of the The Landing relative to the water side all right not add but it is something that that we would look at at this point how did we land at 5T so question how did we get to 5T as the elevation like I was trying to say we want to be able to address a majority of the flood events but you can't address them all so we want to have that percentage so maybe I would like I would like to touch on that so so the five year is not the fiveyear the flood elevation of 5T is not actually the 100e uh staring event depending based off of the preliminary mapping that has not been formally adopted by FEMA but is still being studied is anticipated to be adopted within the next couple of years um we have looked at we've evaluated different flooding conditions there are um there were several bulkheads that were installed and replaced within the municipality that are set at an elevation of 5T uh the 14th ad bulkhead is at an elevation of of 5T as well as some of the other bulkheads that were replaced um I believe at the end of N and O Street or maybe it was just um and then there was um I think off of Lake also so that is something that is I feel one of the biggest obstacles so when you're looking at the project you're looking at the longevity of the project this is going to last you 150 years you're anticipated sea level rise you're anticipating you know continued large storm events that you want to get as much protection from as possible um you know and there are there are a significant amount of of length of Bulkhead within the municipality that that are set at 5T it is um it has been more of a standard especially after Hurricane Sandy when you're constructing bulkheads a lot of towns have developed ordinance is where they want them to be a minimum of 5T potentially 6 feet depending on where you are um it is a you know you're looking at protection you know up to the up to the 50-year storm event versus the 100e storm event but there it offers more protection and that that's that's one of the reasons that we um we are recommending it it is consistent with with um with the elevation of of the bulkhead that was proposed for the reduced section of a project which extended from J Street to um to Island a and um it is a controversial issue and it is actually one of the probably strongest it's going to make the grading to the in existing infrastructure um it's going to be challenging like there there's going to be some coordination but um elevation 5T is is um I think an appropriate elevation for the Bayfront so I think um we've only had this a few days like everybody we haven't met with this yet so one of the things that I'd like our committee to look at is that 5 foot and come up with the review on that so move forward on that but that's one of the things and I agree and I think that is one of one of the most important parts of this design that will require feedback you know as as far as the level of protection and the elevation um the and because that impacts the grading of the 14 per uh 14 a pier in boat ramp you have your 15th F pier in playground your fifth a I'm sorry fifth F pier in playground the yach club as well as the marina so the grading and tying everything in so I mean one other thing to keep in consideration and and I'm not sure if even this reduced side I can get you blown up um elevations but we have detailed topography at 14th Avenue so the Terminus of the bulkhead and potential for flanking is a concern you know at both ends so that the Terminus of both end and the elevation how we're going to tie everything in um Route 35 isn't an elevation of five it's not so um Central AB is I believe it's around 4 feet um so we can move on from that we're going to be looking at the elevation a little bit more to come up with something that's uh reasonable and I'm hoping what what you were emailed you can see and the toos on there we Tred to import as much too as we can so you would physically see it but if you need more um data please let me know and as as as well as um Pam I did I did reach into my dictionary I came up with the word Panacea so this is this is not going to be the the fixing flooding in Seaside Park I want to make sure everybody is aware of that that this is not the be old and all of fixing flooding we're looking at mitigating uh certain flood events mitigating certain flood events yes and that's that's part of the goal like what to what level of protection are you looking for um and then uh as far as a break water it would be it would be recommended facing facing the bulkhead that there would be some type of armoring whether it be a rip wrap or alternative break water be proposed to help dissipate some of the wave action reduce some the splash um action um and I did even attached some some photographs just for some type of visual reference just to open up a dialogue um maybe want to emphasize the rip wrap is there to protect both the sheeping and the road but it isn't what what you will see that will be covered with a living Shoreline well that would be at the what is Rip wrap can you define it so rip wrap is large it's large Stone um that that stabilizes and dissipates the wave AC so um and then there would be opportunity to vegetate to to offer vegetation there's is this an accurate photo I didn't think you wanted to send this one out so but I I want I want people to have a visual of I mean that is that is it is a a measure used to dissipate wave action you know whether whether the there's there's vegetation I mean and that the waterline it transitions to a St I I can tell you this is this concept is what was used in santel for all the roadways that were destroyed by Arcade but it is all covered with either vegetation or a living Shoreline so I watched it being put in and it looks just like that and then when it was finished you don't even know it's there yeah cuz you're going to you're looking to build off a vegetation the area where you already have vegetation the goal is you you you want the vegetation to cover the rip wrap um but you don't have vegetation everywhere so you're not going to have vegetation where you don't currently have vegetation you can attempt to plant vegetation but there are certain areas along the Bayfront where it will be challenging to establish vegetation depending on how far into Bay View you go and that's another PR and that's another PR it depends I mean if you you know the further you go into Bay View and you create your riip W you can you have more room for vegetation but it'd be very difficult to establish vegetation in front of the bulkheads that you currently have because I mean you can't establish vegetation because there's so much wave action it just won't sustain itself yeah I mean this this is going to prevent the scour too you don't have any armor here it's going to protect the water hits it it's going to help protect the vegetation that's already there as well it it it's to serve protection against overspread is to serve protection against the the bulkhead and it's also to help protect the vegetation that would be in front of it so it it's served multiple purposes would you also agree that in a conceptual manner that if you did this even in areas where there's no vegetation today and if you attempted to put anything in last at some point you could if there are new engineering Concepts to reducing wave action further out and the state allows it you can dissipate more wave action further out to allow vegetation to grow if and when the technology is is available and approved by the state but and the fact that you could probably create more Uplands vegetation so like if you have if you have rip wrap into the water and you the higher you know depending on depending on how high your wall is and how high your rip wrap is if you have an Uplands rip wrap you may be able to establish more vegetation on the higher end potentially if it has time to to establish but yeah you would need some type of significant break water you know to to establish mitigation in the water where you exist have an existing bulkhead so this is the phase approach where we're going so you know we're trying to look at this Hardscape as a you know mitigation right here all right so let's continue um so for purposes of right now we anticipate approximately a 6ot wide rip wrap um you know and that that would we things would have to be vetted further the stone would have to be sized we'd have to evaluate the existing real estate and from a permitting perspective how much room you have but um we anticipate approximately a 6 foot rip wrap barrier in front of the existing uh the proposed bulkhead um and then would be a um as you had said there would be plantings within the rip wrap to help basically establish a dune you know and have it be a a hybrid vegetated rip wrap system um public access points would be located and and this is as I said it's conceptual um potentially public access points would be located at every other Street end um the the locations would have to be confirmed more with the burrow with regards to um you know even the materials whether it be ramps whether it be steps handrails was a good point um you know one of the concerns on the waterw side is if you're if you if you have decking or boarding and it it encumbers wave action you know you may have significant damage and repair and maintenance versus um an alternative material ad accommodation requirement when we do something like this so as of right now you guys have certain adaa access points the the burrow has an existing Municipal Public Access plan that's been adopted by the state and it was required as a condition of your doom maintenance permit um so it it covers your public access on the ocean front as well as your Bayfront so I believe currently the only two Ada accessible routes would be your Fifth Avenue pier and your 14th a So currently in your Municipal Public Access plan you have two ADA Compliant locations on the Bayfront I would say at minimum you have to maintain what's in your current Municipal Public Access plan but there would be room to you know look at alternative locations if the bur felt there was a need um all right so conceptual cross-sections we have provided a couple different options um option option a kind of chose some options for potential stairs um option one I meant as as you know potential for stairs maybe some type of system that can be bulkheaded that is you know not decking but however this is something that just just really needs consideration and thought and and and some feedback on you know what what type of accessways and you know what what you would like to to see along the Bayfront um we did talk about ADA already so we are looking at maintaining Ada at the Fifth Avenue Park area as well as 14th which is not noted in here but should be um option two is a very similar design as it relates to the physical components it's a bulkhead it's Public Access ways that the bulkhead would be closer to the water from a permitting perspective I do feel that this would be more of a challenge as it relates to the existing vegetated areas and um you know there are some ma Wetlands so so it would require feedback from the D with regards to see if this is even a potential option but it would be you know look to to put the Bullhead further you know either at the curve line so that way you're not reducing the r b Avenue and looking to replace the existing bulkhead in the same location which would be a replacement you are limited with regards to Elevation if you're replacing in kind um I believe you can't I think you have a twoot limitation as far as up to 2 feet and it may I I do have to verify that but but if you're going to replace existing bulk at in kind at the same location it would be if you can look at different permit all right I will verify replacement across the length so you know the whole bab Avenue whatever the height the max height is right now at the bulkhead whether we can extend that to be what everything is and then go 2 ft above that that was my goal to try to have it as in within the maintenance and repair or replacement Dr yeah to permit so yeah replacing the the bulkhead in kind at the same location the obstacle there is the real estate in front how much real estate you have in front to do some type of Breakwater or or combo living Shoreline that there would be an opportunity you know we would like I said it it would need to be discussed further with a D um as far as the the limitations so um so as far as um both option two from a permanent perspective so you'd have about 2,000 linear feet of the wall that would be kind of um that would have potential issues with regards to the coastal wetlands that would need the D's review and approval um it would have the same grading grading con constraints as far as 14th FP boat ramp the fifth FP and playground the seaside parkyard club and the marina um there there is some some significant grading uh op I Les that would need to be really looked at and beded out and and designed um so they could function as they currently function um as far as this option also would consider a rip wrap um stone for for the break water but would have more could potentially have more limitations um because it's because if it's location at the Mei water line versus if you propose the wall you know behind the existing bulkhead um uh sizing would have to be verified down the road you raised one point that I hadn't thought of are you saying that if you bring it landward meaning into the road you can or cannot take out the existing bulkhead would you leave it you can I personally would leave it because I think it would act as a Breakwater but you can modify it to you know you could bury it with rip wrap right like I don't see why you would remove it personally I think it would it would provide a structural support or a a catastrophic event yeah yeah a dual wall rip wrap yeah I I I think I think it serves a purpose and would help stabilize the RIP round um same thing there would be sort of a hybrid uh a bulkhead with like a hybrid rip wrap planting Doom planting proposed to help um visually you know minimize the impact of the of the rip wrap and then public access point same thing would have to be discussed I think option two shows ramps versus stairs an option you know for for ramp crossover you might want to have a a hybrid depending on what is the use and who is going to be using the public access points what are you trying to accomplish what do you need out of them you know is is ramps necessary um versus stairs um that you're wheeling up a kayak but in reality isn't it the same either the proposal whatever the bur feels the residents feels the appropriate need for Access it's applicable to either it's it's applicable to either but the limit so like the public access way you know from a perent perspective you kind of have you have to present the DP what you want because that's an area of disturbance you have to show them like stairs will not disturb as much as a ramp so if you want a ramp you ask for the ramp so you get approved for that disturbance area that's all tied into your permit so you have to know you know you have to know what you're submitting to the DP because they they care at this you know from a permanent perspective um as as far as storm water conveyance we did talk about this uh and I'm going to I'm going to not as far as from a redundancy perspective I felt like Chuck had a very good point with regards to maintaining like replacement of existing outfalls in kind and and considering an actuated valve system as a redundancy Factor you know there's there's obviously a maintenance component to anything you do um especially in this environment um but it is something that you know I think the grow the the outfalls themselves they do act this groins you know you see that all over the coast I and it's um there is benefit to that so um and and Rob made a good point at our last meeting the the maintenance of these systems is not possible in many of them because they're collapsed and they're beyond the ability to maintain them in many so uh it's not like you could just go clean them out some of them don't function at all excuse me Chu talking to theic so um we discussed the existing systems that are there the storm water systems at the end of every street many of them don't function as originally designed some are collapsed and can't be repaired or or made put back into functioning uh as originally designed so uh you know there's nothing we can do immediately about those they' have to be replaced so this is this project that we thought of would be replacing those and having it based on new design uh be able to you know be better preserved for ice damage and things like that in the design you have a piling system they would be strapped appropriately and you would you you would be able to get a different permit if you're not modifying the alol so so one of the reasons why with when the last designs we needed to get an IP permit because we were extending the outfalls because of the ding system a replacement of the outfall in the same location requires a different permit which is a general permit which is quicker to that's what so our letter our recommendation was to try to do as many move everything in general permits as much as possible to reduce having to go for long-term permit applications which could you minimum 90 days um as far as stor water conveyance because this is a a big component of the flood mitigation com part of the project okay so um the goal would be to disconnect or isolate the Bay from the existing drainage system and redirect the storm water to the dot pump stations um in both directions um at both pump station locations and allow those pump stations to fit physically pump the storm water because you're mitigating the Bay Water tile influence it's to pump the storm water that enters into the system out of the island um through the existing pump stations which do drain Central Avenue currently um there's a significant amount of impact to these DT pump stations that that um is a result of the tital influence that that occurs there on a regular basis and I do feel that any approach with the do um is going to require some accommodation for attenuation to help reduce the runoff to the do pump stations and also water quality so um there the the system was designed to meet certain water quality treatment to allow it to operate from a permanent perspective even though I I strongly feel the dot pump stations do not operate as permitted or as intended a permit is a permit okay so we still have to on paper demonstrate that we are not negatively impacting the total runoff or in you know reducing the water quality um issues going to the pump station so it is something that I I feel you know once we kind of get additional feedback tonight and and direction from from the b i I think within the next week is My Strong opinion to just push for a meeting with DOT as soon as possible to really vet out these these issues um but I you think that connection to the two dot pump stations is the best option for the B I always have felt that way I think everybody he is felt that way um I just think we have to offer them more like we have to offer them more and this is a county road as well so the county wants this project to move forward as well so the county will be responsible for their fair share of the project as it relates to the runoff from the county roadway as well as the water quality impacts from the county roadway so I think that that is also um something to take into consideration a question I have for you is um if we reconstruct or put back this existing storm systems at every street to the original design uh based on the stormw RS are we required to have manufactured treatment devices installed on those or would this just be a direct replacement would they make us upgrade them to current standard well you're looking at your over an acre of disturbance you're looking at you're going to have to address water quality issues so I would say one it's it's my understanding that the dot pump stations they had to meain a certain percent of total suspended solid removal I don't know exactly I don't know if it was 80% or 50% because it was considered a Redevelopment project once you exceed one acre of disturbance you have to address water quality from from from some uh to some capacity whether it be underground um water calling devices there may be some alternative Solutions um that we could vet out that adds a lot of cost and more disturbance by installing those and maintenance for the town after you I agree something no I I I agree remind everybody what we talking about I think we I see a lot of blank faces so right now you have a storm catch basin at the end of the street it's a hard pipe goes right out to the Bay so new stormw RS many years ago still they're not that new but um you have to put a device in the ground it's a big tank and it basically takes the sediment out so you're not dumping that directly out um and it it's the water spins around you can get floatables out of there and petroleum too supposedly and different things so whether we'd have to do that that was a significant increase in cost when we put the original ones in that are there now way back when I believe we squeezed it in right before a bunch of rules came out at that time in those years way back then grandfather well I don't know that's what we have to find if it's a replacement or maintenance it covers it falls under different requirements but I know that the dot pump stations currently have manufactured treatment devices at all their locations so so that plays into the role of us sending more water there those devices are are designed okay they aren't designed to take on the bed even they do even though they do but on paper like there's still the permiting component that has to be addressed so you know there are different measures um there's different options but I feel like a storage component and a water quality component is going to be necessary for a DOT to even consider okay the burrow and the county connecting and that is my my professional opinion there um as far as the tians so these These are going to be the obstacles and and this these may be the driving points to you know what the elevation is that you are going to want to move forward with but you're looking at the Seaside Park yach Club um The Fifth Avenue B here um and maintaining ad adx Ada ability and the um 14th after in BO ramp I feel like I'm a little redundant I apologize for that um I'm trying to work through this and then obviously the the marina and I do want to point out that you know the existing grades at the that at the end of both ends you know they they are you know they range you know between three and four feet um you know they are not your existing braids are not at 5T um so there is there is that um so is that the marina bulkhead you're talking about not is not at 5 ft the marina bulkhead currently is not at 5 ft I believe it's closer to four um so we have grades from we have done that uh that Shoreline stabilization with the articulated matting so the the groin and bulkhead the groin is at 5 ft but the existing bulkhead it it it looks like it's at like 3 five it VAR that's a weak link the whole but it does appear that I mean the bulkhead looks like I would imagine there is going to be a plan to replace that bulkhead as well so it it may be a subsequent phase to this the bulkhead is not new so that is also something to take in consideration that you know there's room for improvement at that location um so as far as regulatory agency go um we are you're looking at a CER permit regardless of where the wall is okay um Waterfront development permit any modifications to the outfall is going to require a waterfront develop development permit as well as any encroachment in the wall you if you put the wall where it is where the existing wall is it's still going to require Waterfront devel development part uh permit any anything that that is within the mean high water line or touches the mean high water line will require that um and then as far as the United the US Army Corp permit obviously will be required as far as the D DT permit um that will be required for the proposed range modifications Ocean County permit they're going to need to review any modifications to Bay Avenue and the drainage system as well as Ocean County soils and um I think that I feel like I've talked enough yes I apologize if I talk too much if you could address just momentarily I think there was a consensus of our meeting with the council and the committee previously that we were hoping to avoid the uh necessity to apply to the Army Corp per of of Engineers because of their delays that they've imposed on us on the the other project I understand but I I don't that's not I don't see that being possible if you're making any modifications to the outfalls it falls within the Waterway and that's under their jurisdiction it's just depending on the disturbance level it it impacts the type of permit that you is that tying into the pump stations as the trigger for that or is that for I mean what's the trigger of modification of the outfall that's the dot ones right The Pump Station well it would be I mean the dot pump stations themselves the the goal would be to to construct a new bulkhead water word of the pump stations so it would require AFA and we're talking about the core engineer Pro so Army Core if you're replacing outfalls it would require a US Army Corps permit cuz you're physically in the water if you're replacing the existing Al Falls you need a waterfront development permit and US Army Corps permit so because you're physically in the water but you're replacing it so it's still necessary for a permit just they want to know what's going should be that should be it's not a new modification um just just refresh my memory when we had the original concept seven years ago in the constrained area between the marina and Island whever the the right Island I forget we were disturbing and modifying the outfalls and we got a permit and we got a corm engineer permit yes so doesn't that serve as precedents if we're not going to be building something deep in the water where they had sad concerned we've already gotten their approval shouldn't that serve as a precedence yeah I mean it's it's a perable project people place offs all the time it's not I'm getting it we were concerned about core because of their objection to what we wanted to do in the water with respect to sa if we're not doing that and we have a precedent saying modifying the outfalls has already been approved by you in a prior we should not have a problem with the core of engineers AG read 100% okay yeah or with the general per correct agree I mean I have something I I mean I have something in writing from US Army cour asking us yeah to do this project to do this project anything else P I think I I'm going to share this St if any committee members have any comments and then Frank EXC my only my only comment B would be time really is of the essence of this community and if phasing it even if it winds up economically to be a little more restrictive in dollars the E the value that will'll create by getting as much of it done early even if it only alleviates 70% of the regular flooding we see that adds value to this community and I agree I think Chuck had a good point as far as potentially phasing the outfall reconstructions with an actuated valve system with you know some curbing modifications I mean it's going to be limited to to some things because of the you know the vulnerable areas but but maybe that would be a phased approach that could occur more quickly just no the only thing I have to say is I think the biggest bank for the is is fixing the existing outs CU that's that's a major problem somebody say something could hear you they I'm good I said enough okay mayor well um and following up on the Joe's comment I because of Seaside Park's planning board and mayor and counsel all of us together we raised some concerns on the bayr as to the project proposed by jcpnl uh a number of issues and they are proposing to replace their line right adjacent to our very popular boat ramp area and the pier and among our many procedural issues not to get even to the merits but procedurally we said we haven't even noticed Ocean County it's their outfall right next to this particular replaced Electric line so our efforts uh Ocean County was noticed they participated they were shocked they were surprised they had no idea about it and one of the benefits that our efforts obtained for all of us is now jcpnl is going to pay for any and all permits and actually construct a brand new outfall on for the county at 13th at that particular area they're going to JL is going to do it so we do know that one that's in the works already thanks also the construction of that line because it hasn't been done yet should be as impervious as possible with the uh construction around the cable so that isn't a conduit for water to flow through our bulkhead that we want to do we want to set up a a barrier you know and we do have a very large gas line that comes in over at the yach club and that's another thing to be concerned about I'm sure that's pretty have a mark out for that I hope so that's a big line that's a big line I wanted to return momentarily obviously the focus of this particular portion of the discussion has been on this particular plan the various options and how we can move forward on an expedited basis with input from the committee and the council uh and through Pam's work uh but I wanted to return to the comment I heard earlier part of about the issue of flooding in the O Street area for example certainly Lake Avenue and there it's it's not something that in any way this governing body is ignoring in fact just the opposite uh and just because the focus of this project is on this other area we're looking and working for other areas to mitigate the circumstances and just this week for example and I have it right here with because Jenna assisted today we got out uh Seaside Park as probably a lot of us know was actually one of the leaders and it's a prior members of the governing body the prior Administration there was an informal group of all Bay communities a mayor's Association uh mayor Matthews uh was involved and uh that particular group is actually uh grown for the nine towns involved and it's very active and has brought about a lot of results and most recently where I'm going with it is we have uh and Seaside Park was the first town we have a Consortium of a shared services agreement and the focus will be strictly on obtaining state and federal funding for flooding that is representative to this entire area and we all know with uh lavet Normand o Orly all of these areas are getting hit especially this last winter and we've been led to believe very positive uh input has come already from the federal people as well as the state people and we had uh the commissioner here of DCA on a totally unrelated event just last week and we had the opportunity to speak to her obviously not bound to any private conversation but she's very very enthusiastic about shared services agreement in general as a concept and there's State funding there's money available for shared services so uh this is in the works the uh agreement's been entered into every Town's committed to it uh we've had a minor delay I I guess with Tom's River I won't comment but they have committed to that so they are going but all of us have signed the agreement we've got the Consortium up and running uh it's in place and the beauty of it is we've got large municipalities we've got small ones ones in between uh run by different forms of government different political parties and the commissioner was very enthusiastic about our group this spee mayor association with all their representatives so I think some good things are about to happen and I just got the proposal and thank you for Jen we got it out uh today but Seaside Park was the first town of the nine to do this we've also got Ocean County committed so one of the focuses obviously will be all of the areas of Seaside Park that are affected as well as our areas and I know a lot of questions are raised and this committee has raised them as well uh we know about sea level rise we're very aware of it and we're aware of the land mass of New Jersey sinking but there may be something else some other factors that have contributed post Sandy in particular and that's one of the focuses whether or not the dredging uh should have occurred as promised didn't occur or whether it occurred in an inappropriate way uh peace meal and plus the inlets what changed when Sandy uh had receded whether or not the judging in the inlets has contributed to this there may be other factors involved and that's one of the more Global uh focuses of the group as well so uh I wanted that comment to not full on dep ears and I want you be aware that we're looking at all this and with input from this committee as well is there anyone else on the council at this juncture anything as to Pam's comments or and the with the committee uh any public uh comments if you have any as we're restricted this is the under the open public meetings active you could give your name and address and the record to come forth to the mic and uh go Gerard Martin a12 North B Avenue um one I I guess I was surprised that all this has been almost solidified before I guess it was uh brought to the public knowledge unless I missed it somewhere my other question is and it has to do with if you connect with the pump house which you're talking about doing are you doing it on the land side where you have to dig up B you Avenue and run piping underneath yeah this is what you have to do okay is this before or after a bulkhead meaning do you put up the bulkhead and then dig do you dig and then put up the bulkhead it would haveen in conjunction I One affect the other they would happen at the same time what is the longevity of the project how long will it take to do yes well we don't know what we bu yet right yeah I really so we don't this this isn't conceptual in nature until you really know the full scope it would be difficult for me to to give you a project duration and and those things are like you can you can set a project duration contractors may need multiple crews in order to meet the duration that you set for them but we do need to figure out exactly what would have to happen like the do are we going to need to do manufactur treatment devices or like there's certain things that would take longer um and it you know we're not as far along as you think we this is a conception we came up with this just a couple months ago when we had a meeting and now we're at a here with everybody and and we're looking over the concepts and working things out it's not as advanced as you think we just got the other day so we're all still working on oh it just sounded like it was a d deal the trucks are coming next week front of your house I am a truly just opposed to the Vol because it'll deteriorate further the vegetation that does remain and also the fact that although we were talking six and eight years ago other than sandbags at H Street nothing was done the county finally stepped in I've said this before they put up Rick r instead of putting it out at the shoreline they ripped up the curving put it there and now all the sand just washes through again it's I find it very disheartening that the county touches anything just me thank yes okay oh hey Haron 21 High Street I just have a question this uh bulkhead is going to go from J Street down to 14th 5T up 5 from from the bay no no Bay level no but it's elevation five the bay let's let's say it's 3 ft above the road okay 3 ft above the road you got the yach club yep with a huge parking lot yeah how are they going it raise it they would have to raise it going to raise the property same way with 14th Avenue have and those are those are the critical design points and and each each uh Pump House gets a raised up a bit with the B okay and these people are going to be able to get if you're raising it up you're going up to get in there tugging their boats behind them to get there okay fine um you put a ramp in or you put steps in the water side of them it's going to get slipper is anything and you're looking at you know you're looking at potential um potential Steve will protect us from that Shirley crestle 700 North Bay Avenue um that was a lot first of all I think what we need to do is have a meeting with the residents this was not put out very long ago and as you can see this is not nearly the crowd that we've had in the past now we're talking about moving into the street again we had really spoken strongly um 75 to 90% of our flooding is from the storm drains I watch it that's where most of the problem is I would first recommend that you have a meeting that is publicized to everyone for everyone to come give their opinions and listen to what we have to say because those of us that have been living through this know more than a lot of people the storm drains are the main issue why can't we just attack that and are we still trying to go forward with the other project with the oyster cages breaking the No No that's completely done they can't get permitted that's and they won't consider any other changes they won't consider those at all how come they were allowed in other spots and not in our B why does where was the people that came showed them Lacy Township had them right well how is their I think the results of that project are probably the reason why you cannot get permits I'll be honest with you the impact didn't work that that that's an issue somewhat in dispute and I we'd be getting into the weeds but can I ask you something I'm just I'm just gonna ask you a question I I I I just all right so so dealing with the outfalls I'm just saying if if if we just did nothing but looked at the outfalls okay there's two components to the outfalls okay there's the high tide component and then there's the component when you have heavy extensive amount of rain okay there's two different things so like if you have a very high tide that causes flooding okay so so you shut the outfall off when The Tide is High so it can't come up through the catch basins okay and then it rains a lot where is the rain going it's staying in the street and it's flooding you guys cuz it keep get out cuz you cut the outfalls out from from from the so so there's two different things like there isn't a simple solution of the water I I know I understand but you have to shut it off you have to stop the Bay from coming in but then you also have to what do you do with all the rain water when it rains it floods your street so like so so there isn't one simple solution if if all you want to do is address tidal flooding you know valving will have some benefit if the valves hold and they operate and there's always times where they won't function properly but if it rains a lot and the vales are closed your world is going to flood and there's no most of these however if the water is coming this way that flap is down if the water's going this way it opens up to allow it out but the tide is above your road it's not opening you you situation where you've got the tide coming in the valve is closed whether it be manual or automatic right and then it starts to pour but if we hook up to the pump station what you're talking about okay so what I'm saying is I think there's going to be a lot of residents want to speak on this issue and speak about you because it almost sounded like it like B said like it's a d deal like okay we're going to put this wall in the street and this is what we're going to do we need to put this out there and let everybody think about it and I know the storm drains said I don't trust the county because we've been trying to get the county to just put something by H Street every time the it's a high tide it doesn't even have to be a storm the water comes right over how many times have I come here and said the county has to put something there the only that's going to help problem you have to raise the excuse me they put sand where there wasn't even a problem and you expect the county to help us well why can't you get the county to do that that would stop a lot of the flooding right there for the people right in that area and then we've got more storm drains down and my street was raised and yes that's helped somewhat but because you put a storm drain now on Bay Avenue I flood more in the front of my property than I did before the storm drain was there I want a public meeting letters to go out reverse 911 I don't care what it is let everybody in this town know and have a meeting for everyone that happens you got come some kind doing that sometime in August so we have more answers to so these are just suggestions but nothing's being done absolutely that's right I heard somebody say that they wanted to really push on this so you're not until we don't the residents want to push something yes but we want to have we want to understand what's going the purpose of this is to come up with ideas to present to a a public meeting for in okay thank you surle uh one of our recommendations is the residents of the Bur are in need of information and action numerous comments have been made at Council meetings and directly to Comm to committee members requesting what and when mitigation work will be done our recommendation to the mayor and this is just you know what we came up with was the committee recommends a meeting of the council and bayr committee be done as part of a work session we're here today doing that okay furthermore we recommend that a public meeting focused on allowing the public to comment directly to the committee and presentation of the what and when responses be provided the residents living and vacationing within the 100-year flood plane cannot endure a 13 year of flood anxiety and property loss without material efforts being made by the Burl County I think we summed up a lot of what you said and a lot of what we've heard from residents in town so I just wanted to share that with you yeah it just seemed like we weren't get that this is what is being presented and this is what you guys are going to decide on that's how it was coming thank you I want to comment on the one of I think there's an inference in what Charley may have said if I read you correctly I I may be in the minority and there are a number of individuals whose opinions I respect greatfully with knowledge have raised skepticism about the other project I haven't given up on it and there are some areas out there where we've got applications spending for funding so if that funding were happen to come in and the permitting there I I got Vibes there was a change of heart from the Army Corps may be unrelated to our situation but apparently that has happened so I haven't necessarily given up a that joh and I can ask Pam I think am I correct to say we talked about this in a preliminary sense if we were to with all input everybody digesting this proposal one of the options or hybrid thereof that that wouldn't necessarily contradict going ahead with the other plan in that particular area or along with a Hardscape I mean the B yeah the the the B mayor council has the the final say on how they want to proceed as far as a design and and and permitting uh aspect it's just you know to date we have not received positive feedback with regards to the existing design and and we haven't we've discussed it a lot but we haven't made a solid recommendation to abandon that project at all back to I I know where some of the concerns are and as I said there's some opinions right at this table I respect quickly and they've raised concerns but that particular meeting took place with this uh s Barnette Bay and for whatever reason the missing tape it's everybody's tried to get a tape of it and it's no longer available on YouTube so I I've talked to the players who were there and Captain Al mesy of American literal Society has had a spirited disagreement it's safe to say with Dr Lacy uh we've worked with both of them here in seide park over the years they're both renowned experts uh we have an sap person that we've also consulted with is Dr balna so uh he's actually going to be in the area next week so maybe we can ask him that directly but but but if I can what I brought up before is if we work out engineering have the the meeting with the town get the input anything we do with Hardscape if we do something in the future to mitigate waves out in the bay that's approved they are additive they do not subtract from one another is that not correct that is correct job in the back there is next to I know you've been very patient so okay then then we'll go to jail yes hi I'm Dian war from I'm a resident at Seaside Park on F Street and I'm in the middle of the block and you know I was destroyed at Sandy we rebuilt and I just thought I want to show you these pictures from 30 years ago this was our Bay right there on F Street because my younger daughter was with me and this is what it's not there now right so I know the people that have been here all that time probably knew that but that's what it used to look like and that wasn't had anything you know this was way back way back she's 38 that's so that's 30 years ago but um these are like winter pictures that I take when I'm here you know and I'm I'm up on my deck that's you know 10 205 20 feet up there and I can't even go down because this is what it looks like coming up F Street and I'm in the middle of the block so I get this view a lot of times and I'm sure other people do too so I just thought i' share this I'm sorry because I was out all day I even I did not even know about this meeting my neighbor who is also a resident of De Grandes sent it to me from their Cruise early this morning before I left the house so I got home late and I threw this here so you want to share this when you go talk to your people I know you have all those drone things but like this is these are real I mean and it is and and January was the worst CU I went through this too but the winner is the wor a lot of people don't see but I just what it happened so thank you can put them in your little evidence V if you want are you thank yeah you can have I just would like here's my information and this was this is me I just WR one picture back in the end this one but you can have all that you thank you thank you very much thank you my name is Joe 37106 side park and listen to what you said and Charles you live on the same street and if you go down to the corner of 10th Avenue and born again the drain that set up there the storm Dr at all times the dirt is here and this is no exaggeration and this is the great above that can catch very little water very little I've asked once before if they would dig it out they tried to dig it out it was unsuccessful but by chance I was talking to the people from ibw fyz whatever the company is takes the pumping stations they said that there's a machine that can come in and suck that dirt out of the the storm drain and water have a place to exit because if we build a wall to prevent the storm water from getting down there then we're going to get drowned by the storm War by the rain there'd be no place for it to go is that part of the plan to make the the storm drains active and work hard they would flow to the do Pump Station that that's another problem is if anybody stops by and talks to the folks who are working on it um they will tell you that what's happening underneath is the pumps are being adversely affected by the sand that they're picking up that's being P out by water is going through and then you could then you can look around over the curb and look at the day and the day around then is probably this deep CU with all the sand that's being pumped out there's a significant amount of sand that's being washed up when the tide is high so we're actually trying to prevent the sand from getting into the pump station that would be the goal operate more efficiently the Sand's not coming from the B it's coming from the St it's coming from the the drains that are going to the Bay they they're picking up sand when they get to the pumps something about the impellers get screwed up by the sand did they get War well when the when the Tide is High and the and the water Brees the curb there is sand that washes into the street I'll give you that so that that that is the source of the majority of the sand I think is coming from the bay being washed into theing but if you if you take a ride be here tomorrow I got that but if you went to the pumping Stations between the areas where you're going to do this miracle job you're going to find that there's around the station there's large amounts of sand they're very shallow I don't think that's contributing to our protection that means the bay is getting even higher I don't know what you're going to do about that if there's if there is sand you're saying the Sand's coming in you know through the storm there there's yeah there there's there's going to be sand in any storm water pump station that's constructed in a coastal area there's there's going to be sand yeah so Joe if you look at the outfall there's an island out there now yes it's a huge amount and a lot of it looks to me like Builder sand because that's what they backfilled the pipes with and they told me they leak yeah and sand goes in the pipes goes through gets ground up murator gets messed up you know the impellers and they're rebuilding them all the time uh the the point I wanted to make earlier I don't maybe I wasn't clear was when you turn the valves off the the storm drain say we put gate valves in and and those outfalls the Tide's coming up you turn it off when it rains the do in their infinite design wisdom they put basins catch basins in where they suck up water right there in front of the pump station it's right there so as Bay Avenue floods from storm water in my opinion the water will flow to those areas it might be six Ines deep like we always have a long baby but it'll all flow right to those drains and it'll pump out right from there without connecting to some degree the calculations needed to see just how that happens but the water would flow down Bay View and get to that one and it would go down Bay View on the North side and get to that other one we we would have flooding on the other side of the wall with everything but the water would flow and and we get we get a foot of water anyway so um that that was my conceptual design I'm I'm a big one on modeling these things and and putting in the pump rates and and doing some modeling but uh we're going down that road so I think I understand what you're saying and if you look at that Island that's forming outside those pipes it's it's pretty bad he's talking about a basin that's a block away right that's full of sand it just needs to be clean yeah they sounds they don't function right that's what we brought up before some of them can't be repaired since they've been put in they've been there probably three to five days a week at the pump station at the pump station yeah no but that's not what you you talked about first up barate and tent right if that's full of sand I don't know how that's related and it should be cleed out it's another place to FL yeah it doesn't go anywhere it's a very low area to okay but just it doesn't go anywhere if it's full of sand it needs to be clean don't we don't have the equipment to clean I don't know about that I don't know if we have that anoun I I don't think you're wrong about that you're a machine that actually goes into the storm drain no no it's something that goes in the Bas and CLE vac yeah vacuum we don't have that a piece of so maybe we can rent it in the county just to see if it works County to do it or have the county do it thank you okay next I know you've been patient sorry 8 Clank 48 11th Avenue um I just have two questions one um Pam you said that if we can construct a new bulkhead and keep the current bulkhead that that would be advantageous my question is what would be in between the two of them rip with vegetation on top of it the mayor question which the mayor just um kind of referred to when he was answering your question um my question is about funding I know that we've had funding in the past that I don't want to use the term has been lost but it no longer exists am I correct that we have to to have a concrete plan with permits in place before we can apply for funding which comes first the chicken or the egg you can apply for funding but if that funding is what the agency I think wrongfully might declare inordinately delayed but it's caused by the agency itself then the agency decides that you haven't acted promptly and efficiently on it and they pull the funding but in answer your question yes you can apply for funding without the permits okay so would this um application for funding be included as part of the plan in addition to the components of the plan of what to do um to me it's a two-prong thing we decide what we're going to do and go forward with that and will we at the same time then be applying for funding and hoping that we can get within the time limit so that the agency doesn't I mean that I I feel that would be the goal of the municipality yeah I mean typic okay only I and I only rais that maybe it's this is not the meeting for that but I only raise that because to me that's a big part of this doesn't matter what we if we don't have any money we might as well just go go home okay I mean we budget for this every year in hopes it's it's a big ticket item in the capital budget and hopes that we get the permits and we also app for Brick grants uh I would I would surmise that because they' pulled those grants twice we get a favorable award again and it's actually increased the amount they awarded us last time but again it needs the permits and maybe we can get a much cheaper plan for the ball Fielding you of man any other yes sir yes hi Mary John Nicholson H 208 South bayew Avenue I live directly across the street from the yach club so and I'm experiencing quite a bit of flooding as everybody else um I have a question in terms of your height of that B that you're pointing in how high is that yakub parking lot existing right now in terms of the elevation that you want to bring in to 5 ft I believe it's about 2 and 1/2 2 and2 um actually I I don't have detailed spots of the parking lot but I have some Contours and some um shots of that dun which are you know between two and two and a half fet it looks like okay so got to go up a lot a lot higher and you're going to have then ramps of those driveways then going up in incl my my next question is because you're raising that how is that going to affect the houses right there in terms of the water runoff and and it is Third Avenue is always underwater as of last night and this afternoon and it's constantly coming up so what are we going to do about that you know how are we rectifying that the goal would be to redirect the runoff underground with pipes okay we have on the yach club a partial um part of the yach club as well we have the gas line that's underground that's coming to uh bab Avenue also have underground wires going to the building now so that you also have to consider that as well because I see in this plan you also have the um your bulk heading going along the side of the op Pro property which will be you know you're going to have to pile drive it down correct yeah so all you yes all existing utilities I know the gas main is something that's going to be you know a component of of the design that would have to be coordinated okay plus with our concrete driveway as well and then you also have on the looking at it on the right hand side you have underground wires there yes and that that's something you have to be you know who who's you know here I'm going to be the other half yach in a sense sorry John I don't mean to interfere with that question but you're a member of the ask question so my question to you is who who's incurring that cost that would have to be coordinated with the with the utilities so that that everything would have to be coordinated with the utilities as far as the location and possible relocation um it it would it would have to be addressed with the gas company and the electric company yeah but my biggest concern is on bab Avenue with the houses existing that that are there and the runway coming off from this higher level elevation of land now is going to be pitched they not raising the two options I think this is am I looking at the wrong one yeah I think you are oh I didn't get that one I'm sorry I AP sure I agree that that that is a problem area that will require more coordination kind Drive okay way all right because I was concerned about any runoff that would be coming towards the home no I no it's about a concern and we would want to minimize the runoff as as much as possible um but there I personally have have not um and I don't know as as far as the burrow goes like this this is conceptual nature but the existing utilities and coordination with the yach club is a significant component to to you know anything on that property moving cward so thank you very much so yes sir you've been most patient of all I am John stro 100 South Ocean Avenue some of you people may remember me from childhood you know me as J anyway uh friends of mine were working on the border wall uh years ago and our plan was to build a big glass wall uh with a special coating make it uh bulletproof bomb proof setting flying debr not break the glass Charles could still see the bay Sunset I would make that wall also coated for anti-chip so we chip and also coat that wall so that it generates electricity so the wall would generate electricity and pay for itself so it's a nice idea I don't know if it generate enough electricity to run those pumps or any type of centrifugal pump to get rid of the sand but it's something to consider I'm not saying it's a solution but you might want to consider it you could also consider hydrogen generators they run on water generate all kinds of power and also the latest which is Fusion generators that's the latest that's hitting the mark in about one to two years in cars all kinds of crazy millions of miles per gallon if you want to call gallon so something to consider glass wall block debris block the water problem I see is though what about the rain water coming from the other side you still see your beautiful sunsets solve a lot of your problems not all so that's my suggestion I Pro my two you Viller 1500 Lake Avenue um thank you for keeping O Street in mind um John U comment to you a couple of years ago they tried to pump the sand out of O Street Lagoon they did it for weeks and that sand kept on coming back so the people that live there as a matter of fact a big boat can't come in anymore but they weren't able to solve it so I don't know how that would roll out but it's it's an issue um I have another question though when you're saying that Central Avenue is at 4 feet now we redid Central Avenue much to much of our dismay um and it's just been redone but it's 4T so you're going to put roads 5T higher just so all of this and the ra raised Road should not affect Central Avenue other than the fact that the pump one day we might raise the row incrementally that that would be another thing okay um and I guess Pam often times you see keep on saying um you have to do this or whatever uh so this plan now is your new goal uh or or suggestions for the council it's now in writing um so you'll work hard at trying to let us navigate this because there's been such a gap and that's really sad um I know do is hard to deal with you're dealing with all the engineers but somehow or other you need to direct us much better on what our next step should be so thank you committee for getting together again and keep it up than Michelle you Michelle hi I'm Terry SE I live at 300 South bayew Avenue on the corner of third and bayew the worst part on baby Avenue um my my question is um why haven't we asked the county to build up our curb all from J Street that abuts the beach all the way through bayew and just tighten it just the curb isn't that easy to do shouldn't that be their responsibility there are parts of the curve that have completely washed away down from like I Street or E Street they put the sandbags down they're absolutely useless so why can't Seaside Park ask the county immediately that would be a huge fix a huge fix a relief keep the vegetation and the sand at least if they could hire it you know 2 feet and then that would help the second thing is how many new check valves do we have or the valves that you set I think we have two correct in the last couple of years Seaside Park has put two in place there's there's three locations that that I am aware of that our office was involved in with the municipal dot grants um one at F Street one at G Street and then there was one at 12th Avenue however I don't know if there was any other added however you know there has they have not proven to be as effective as we would have liked them to be now who controls the shut off when the time Rising so the tie Flex valves are not actuated they are they are operated based off pressure so they clo they they're always closed okay and when it rains the pressure of the rain water is supposed to open them however if there's debris in the line or if the tide is high they don't open so they they're gravity Tilex valves they are not operated with electrical components they're not actuated vals okay several years ago we were encouraged I went to the Ocean County um uh core uh Army Core of Engineers they had a very informative presentation to all of Ocean County on the coast and what they were doing with the levies at the inlets and all that um at the time I sat next to a town official from Beach Haven they um had uh passed $3.2 million and were rebuilding their catch basins and outlow B uh outflow pipes with new valve systems that were from like Germany I got the ka's card I passed it on to Matt and several other Town um councilmen at women at the time um I know Matt was looking into that and several other um councils that system was completely put in place I don't understand why a you put them in three different locations it would have been better to put them consecutively so we could actually determine the efficiency of them and why can't we work on those right now the water comes in every single day every single day people are passing on Bay View Avenue leaping over from sidewalk to you know over the water every single day it's not just the rain you know you're focusing so much on the rain and the that the tithe is rising it comes in every day it comes in on Fifth seventh up and down the the entire Bay why aren't you focusing on the catch basins repairing them or lifting them up and getting the outflow pipes and the new valve system on there I really think that is the first phase that you need to do absolutely and you've been talking about this for years we need to really do something thank you thank you yes no Tom Joseph 704 South bayew Avenue on between 7th and eth so I've got a natural area across the street from me so one of my concerns is that I would not want to see that destroyed in the process of doing this but I also have a good view of the pump house at 8th Avenue and when you sit down with a DOT to talk to them about tying into the pump house you might remind them that a large fraction of the water that ends up in B you flows right by that pump house and those idiots that installed it there and cut into the Natural Area to do it set up one of the worst flood issues that we have in my part of B you and as far as I'm concerned there's more water coming in there than is coming from rain water or anything else so if they want us to give them something why don't we suggest to them what we won't give them is the lawsuit they deserve for all the property damage that that's caused let's think about that and maybe they can cooperate with us because we really would like them to cooperate with us and we would like to cooperate with them I want to talk about a different topic but I don't want to get in the middle of of this so when we're done with this I'd like to come back to a different topic from the working session but like I said I don't want to get in the middle of this so um if you could call on me after this is done I'd appreciate it yes ma'am so same question as earlier so r a pool 265 O Street what why is that out of scope for the plan why does it end at I does o and n get tons of flooding and when you do something like this will it get more water as a result because water has to go somewhere the one thing that I I just want to note is that you know that that area would be outside of the range of potentially tying into the dot pump stations at this location so it would it for this particular project I think that we were we were looking at um trying to move forward with the dot as far as utilizing their pump stations um nothing's being considered for that area and fixing this would it further impact that because sometimes when projects are done I know that there I know there was a pilot program that was done with wo which was a tide Flex valve company but I think that was K Court K Street so so I I I'm which um is is in that area um and if it was more successful I know they were going to continue to to to add um additional valves over by n and O Street um is my understanding that the the valve at that location wasn't as sucessful um but I would like to revisit that even with the public works director and confirm it's been a couple of years since that pilot was performed but I do know that there was a pilot program that the county was involved with and the Bor was involved with that in in included installing valves at various locations and I know that K Street area um was one of the or I think it was K Court I apologize but I I'd like to go back and revisit that and I could um possibly get your information and just kind of give you an update after I confirm with the public works director so no consideration for this project going beyond the ey just the pum stations I mean I our Focus as a committee has been in this area from the different projects that have established um as you go north the uh bulkhead elevations have a lot to do with it and surveying all those and getting all that data it's a different type of system up there you do have a pump station up there um the one over by uh on okay so there is a pump station on that road but we have not addressed that we've been focused on on stuck in our house for days yeah yeah same here all right Alex 447 have you first of all I'd like to thank the committee for donating your time to try to see exactly what we're going to do on thank the engineering firm for you're it's it's it's a tough it's a tough situation we do realize that there's two separate things going on here at the same time there's the storm water runoff okay and then there's the there's there's the flooding well everybody knows here that the the water's it it's it's fighting itself the bay the bay wants to come this way the storm water wants to go this way but the storm water uh the the uh Bay Water the flooding the high tide is coming up through the through the drains we all we all know that okay again T was saying Third Avenue is the first place that floods I drove around all night for many years studying it believe it or not because this was a this was a topic from 25 years ago at least okay that uh the previous governing body wanted to address with a Geo that might be something similar to the rip WP I don't know what exactly but the dredge foils that were taken from the yach club okay were supposed to be stuck in a sock okay and laid against right in front of Charlie cr's house okay right along right there that was going to be the pilot start to see as we could rebuild a shoreline okay and I will say with all respect him that I do not believe that we should encroach on the road we want to make we want to put a wider barrier between the houses that when you drive down Ocean Avenue the water's slapping up against people's front doors for God's sakes okay to create to to put the shoreline out I know it's going to require the de approval but we have to present our case as a town okay that this is clearly a problem and it's a quality of life issue for the especially for the houses directly on Bay Avenue and the D is going to have to comply give the permit research it whatever it is okay you know everyone's afraid to oh we're going to put dirt and with all respect we're going to affect vegetation and so on so forth we want to try to build that up in the Westerly Direction okay not use 6 ft of the road it's kind of it's a drop in a bucket with the amount of land it's just my personal opinion I know we have engineers and you guys are way more Avers in this and Joe's has done types and and and Rob's engineer with the county and all this just saying that you need to kind of go in the other direction and if that means going into the bay and filling some of it in which was the proposed idea 25 years ago okay because in all my junk in all my boxes I have the proposals from Baypoint engineering about the ge2 okay those spils never got into a sock and that project never came to fruition all right those spoils are sitting right where at I Street right by Kurt Martin's house okay that's where those spoils are sitting and you want to know what grew there in the past 25 years vegetation okay that's what's there now that's a big pile of dredged boils okay sitting on the burrow Marina property just so everybody knows because I had I have the photographs of it when it was put there okay and that that project never came to fruition so I understand people's frustration like dir Martin okay saying what the heck's going on here we we've been talking about this this is ongoing this is ongoing I'm not bling anybody in particular okay but I'm just saying we've really got to kind of work on work on a solution and one other thing was that the we're talking about the storm water runoff from Bay Avenue where is the water going from Ocean a where's the storm water water going from Ocean heav in what direction does it go towards the B it all goes to the Bay goes down it comes down the side streets it whips around it goes under it collects goes underneath throughout 35 comes back up and goes down to the bank the idea of cutting off these out walls and having um all this water collect in these two pump stations and whether we get approval or not from the from the from the do uh to be able to utilize them well I'm not an engineer but that's that's a lot of water because you're taking the water from the whole town okay you're not just taking the water from from Bap you Avenue you're collecting in there and I think a lot of us you know know you know that here but that's just something that I want you know I just kind of want to put that out there and have people have a little better understanding about how much water we're dealing with and it's it's it's a it's going to be it's it's a challenge you know I mean we know that but I just uh just you know wanted to mention about that geoo thing it's been grinding my gears for 20 years okay every time I drive down bab Avenue okay by try pressel's house right there by uh you know F Street G Street right there all right when the water's coming up over that's exactly where that geo geo sock was going to go and then it was going to get covered over okay with vegetation for the natural vegetation to you know take it take on its own and um nothing ever happened here we are 2024 it's blowing my mind that we're actually still talking about this okay it's so old it's going to be new again okay thank you and thank you for everything that the committee has done I want to be as far as the bulkhead wall goes ow as far as the bulkhead wall goes with the location hasn't been again a concept it's only yeah yeah but the location is something to be talked about played with and and the geot tubes they put at Island beach they all failed all right so be three island is it pan yes Pam I I want to look at sheet four and Sheet one and particularly the sea wall termination ends seaw wall termination ends terminating you have your elevation of that that area there which is FL shell is about 3 ft then you have the bulkhead and you have the the bulkhead that I think was about looks like it slips down about one one and a half foot the marina at the marina so they say talking about the marina all right sorry yes we're starting at the marina so this was something that I did bring up um at the last public committee meeting as far as right now there is um some articulating concrete matting that was installed next to the groin so the the groin that extends into the Waterway um um it's very elevation but there there is a top of Bulkhead of about five um at the at the bend there's the the existing bulkhead within the marina um you know which I you know it can potentially be elevated as at the next time it's replaced but there that bulkhead is not elevation 5 right now um so that's something further it's a it's a further goal as as the project gets looked at that was one of the talking points that I had brought out up about the ending of the bulkhead you would like to tie it into to a bulkhead that would be replaced at the same elevation within the marina but I'm familiar with that area I do have a boat marina and I I do see the southern all summer and the wav just batter and brutalize that uh that bulkhead of the marina which which stops a lot of the wave activity there but it is old and this may be a time to RIS that area and and and tie it into your existing project and and run that uh across into the dis bolt head and and UTI just that that area there and bring that up to the 5 also you know what I'm talking about you see that I mean i r doing that bhead at the mar looking at cheap and the reason why the reason why that the reason why that bulkhead currently isn't tying directly into the bulkhead at the marina is because the existing bulkhead has tiebacks so there's a lot of infrastructure behind that existing bulkhead so it would be the tie in would preferably occur when that when the existing Marina bulkhead would be replaced there would beit's looking at we're looking at that project now you're you're reviewing that project now as separate from this is so the land so the land that's about 3 three and a qu that'll be open in accordance to your proposal you going to raise that five or just leave it three I mean I the club up to five right you're going ra the land the elevation of the club uh the the entrance ways it's still up for further discussion but the you would have a raised access into into the yach club parking lot correct you don't think it'll be it'll be it'll have a negative effect into that area where where the parking is the behind where the boats parked if it's not baded you understand what I'm saying that's that's a concern like the the concern is that's going to be a vulnerable area for flanking around the wall because yes so so the in the elevation of of the bulkhead has not been fully vetted this is a conceptual meeting however the concern that was that may dictate what the proposed elevation of the bulkhead would be um but it has already been brought up to the hard for committee about the the benefit to potentially replacing and elevating the bulkhead in the marina so that way they're all at the same elevation you consider that you talk about it is something that has been discussed we have we haven't talked about it ourselves consider separate stud that project put at the end you know I say so look at the South End just the stop at 14 then you have C wall to edit the existing retaining wall That's the retaining wall that's out by the pay to Sir could I just see which plan do you have do you have option one or option two there's and then it says at the bottom it says does it say option sure okay so that's option one yeah there's two different plans so they show different proposals as far as accessibility so this this is here yeah so this bulkhead here um yeah that's the existing this this elevation is at a five see this is your proposed end here right with the r that's the existing so what is this in here that this would be raed up so the grade would the grade would have to go up and then have to Beed a meeting okay the details the details of that is going to be contingent on the actual we have to time Pam's got FL s why don't you give your email to Pam and then she could address whatever specific question if that would be helpful I have a business card you we have a whole regular meeting yet to go we haven't started yet no this has raised a lot of questions and a lot of comments but I have to thank the mayor and councel for having this open discussion of the conceptual ideas available for people to have input on I'd like to offer a breath of fresh air and ask about something different my question has to do with the lightning detection system because that was on the agenda um my question is and I understand what um the attorney is saying can we can excuse our committee they very patient thank you for and I understand what the attorney is saying about Noah and the plan I happen to agree oh let me just give out to the door at the back chair maybe that be okay I'll move to the back thank you I'm just going to move these to the back thank you yes about the lightning detection system and I I understand what attorney sbarski was saying about the Noah plan and you have to have the plan however my concern is the same as council member condos my question is what are other towns doing that have this lightning detection system and that may not be something you can answer tonight are they also restricting their their plan from the 9 or 9:30 to 5 so that's my question and you can bring me back the answer next time mean the answer is no they're um ortley uh uses a lighten detection system from 8A to 8p uh brick Beach uses it uh uh I believe it's an hour before and an hour after lifeguards are on um and they leave their strobe lights on year round okay so is that something we could look into as to why they feel they can do that and hopefully they're not in jeopardy of you know litigation and maybe adjust our hours to be more helpful to the answer is yes I say we can look to amend the plan right now I'd like to go with what we have say well I'm just wondering if we should table what we have until we want to put the plan in effect right away you want to get the system running all right something how much did it cost us for the equipment about uh about $48,000 486 yeah exct thank you very much yes h p a 13710 Avenue I wanted to just speak to that same ision I definitely support Ray and Gina this it would seem to me please install it and activate it activate it tomorrow on whatever you're going to vote on tonight but please do not let this go people are surfing people are walking people are stepping into the water there must be a way to have a two-part plan one part for when the life parts are on duty and the other part that says we are just alerting you it's an alert system we're not rescuing you necessarily but we're alerting people that there's possible lightning in the area please continue to work on this and come up with a system that keeps it on I'd say well fa says 24 7 I don't know about that but at least Dawn to 10:00 at night there are kids going in that water and I want them to be sife whether it says no swimming allowed or not I I don't know if you U know but there's a gentleman in town whose son was hit by lightning on Island Beach State Park 12 years ago 15 years ago I don't know when it was we were all sitting on the beach that day sitting there blue skies he had Blue Skies over him they say the lightning came from 10 miles away please consider to really not let this go I trust J maray will keep bringing it up until you come up with a additional plan thank you Pat thank you Pat thank yes s a long time there Mike's spino 59th Avenue uh to continue on the uh line of thought that you were presenting uh is this system called a beach front lightning warning system is this a beach front lightning warning system I mean the brand name a strike guard yes but is it a beach front lightning warning system the answer is no the answer is no and in all respect Mr barski is a attorney and I've been on Council before and I know if I say Mr barski here it is give me an answer what he did is you gave him something to do he gave you an answer but the thing about it is that you have to think outside of the box now I live half a block away from the beach and if the lightning deterrent system isn't it for me too yes if I'm in my yard or I'm on my deck or I'm standing outside my house isn't this warning system for me too yes it is and so why does it have to be that Mr barcy came up and he's talking about safety for people on the beach when it should be just a townwide lightning warning system for everybody which changes the parameters of what he was asked to present to you so that's why council person condos council person amabile I think you need to keep fighting for this because Dusk till till dawn or or or Dawn Till minimally should be what the system should be doing and there should be no liability because it's for everybody in town everybody a block away two blocks away standing on the bay it's not a beachfront problem okay thank you thank you oh can I move on to the next okay so the other issue I have is with this vigorous uh opposition into wind FS now uh C woman condos mayor Peterson you went to the BM uh presentation of all the facts and research regarding windmills and you know that that is researched information what was presented for you to vote on tonight was a uh a situation where there's a lot of mistruths unfounded uh research not based things because it's like a lot of things if I commission you to do a research for me and you know what I want you're going to find any minuscule little thing that says I don't agree with the science and you're going to say these guys don't agree with the science and I'm presenting that as the facts involved not true most of that information that is in what they're asking you to do is not true having been a councilman I want to tell you that I am very sympathetic to you because I as a councilman in the past have had the gun held to my head with a town that was neighboring us on either side asking us to support a movement or something that they wanted to do that I did not agree with but then when I go to the county meeting mayor Peterson he's going to have to face these people and say well they'll say John what why you didn't back us why didn't you back us putting him in a very precarious position and all of you and it's not fair because you should not have a gun held to your head just because they are short towns just like your short town and so I really believe that you have already answered the question over a year ago you decided to vote that you did not support wind FS I don't see any reason in the world why you should have to do it again just to help have that gun held your head again it's BS don't do it yes sir S no this gentlemen someday John you're going to remember my name but apparently it's not today it's Tom Joseph 704 and as many times as I stood up here it's late I can't remember much hey I don't know what to tell you I remember your name and I'm older than you are probably all right Mike touched on the topic I want to talk about this resolution that you talked about in the working session on vigorous opposition to wind farms is a piece of partisan propaganda it is full of mistruths exaggerations Scare Tactics it's written by somebody who is deathly afraid that wind farms are going to cause World War I and treating that as a serious resolution and worse treating that as if it represents the views of this town I don't care if it represents John's views I don't care if it represents your views Gina or anybody individuals but to put the thing together and purport to be representing this town with that piece of unbelievably ridiculous assertions I I I give you a simple example I don't want to spend a lot of time talking about what's wrong with but I'll give a very simple example have any of you ever walked up to the top of one of the BMS like I live near 7th Avenue so when I walk to the beach I go up to sth Avenue and at the top of the BM I Look Out on the Ocean and off in the distance sometimes I see ships yep freighter container ships whatever I have never once and I don't know anybody else who has ever looked at that ship out there and gone damn I'm never going to the beach again because that's un that's spoiling my view of the unspoiled ocean well guess what you can see those ships a hell of a lot better than you will ever see these wind farms because frankly you can't see the wind farms that this document references from anywhere in Seaside Park period and you can't see them from anybody driving down from the north to come to Seaside Park the fact is you can't see them from anybody driving up from the south because the damn things are 10 miles off Atlantic City and in order to see them at all and someday if they do build them if they build them I'm going to drive down to Atlantic City so I can see them at least once and they're going to be little tiny things on the horizon at that Bureau of oce energy management meeting they had over in Tom's river that I know you were at John cuz we talked there and you knew my name that day and I wasn't there thank you for I wasn't going to blame you for that that was Mike's Mike's assertion I know John was there I gone to rallies but I haven't been at that evening anyway they had photoshopped pictures of the view of them but they were done scientifically and they were done to scale and as you looked out over the the view of the ocean you saw these little tiny things in the distance they are a long ways away from here they're impossible to see because you could just as easily see the New York skyline from the Seaside Park Beach as you could see them so here's my issue we shouldn't be taking a position on this I completely agree with Mike the LBI people that are running around like Chicken Little screaming about this thing tell the pound sand this is not Seaside Parts issue the information that's in that resolution is nonsense and if you pass this resolution and you send it off to the people you're sending it off to what you're doing to the people in Trenton is you're spitting in their eyes you're telling them we know better than you do because we believe this stuff that anybody who spends any time digging into what the facts are is going to come quickly up with this is nonsense and what's that going to tell them it's going to tell them something about this town and the people that run it and I'd be embarrassed if I were you and the town should be embarrassed if this thing passes and you send it to anybody if you do it quietly and don't tell anybody well I don't I don't care about that so what I want to encourage you to do is take that resolution and tear it up and throw it away because it doesn't make any sense and all it's going to do is tell the people in Trenton and the people in Washington that we're crazy and they should do things like well um we're going to hand out money for fixing board boardwalks well let's give it to Seaside Heights let's not give any to Seaside Park they're crazy there and the people in Washington that we might want to get on our side so that we can maybe convince the core of engineers that that their bizarre idea about sa protection is something that needs to be changed well we're not going to get any cooperation if we do things like this so I think in the interest of trying to solve the problems that we need to solve here like flooding to get people to cooperate with us take this resolution and tear it up and throw it away it does not send the message you want to be sending to the people we need to get to cooperate with us in the State and the federal government and on the meeting tonight we talking about this that was a great idea if you could have figured out a way to make it last about 30 minutes but it was a good concept and I appreciate that you did that thank you thank you any other comment yes real quick um hey hering 21 I Street as far as the lightning alert um I think it's a great idea I really do I would like to see it 247 if possible especially during the summer we may not need it during the winter because we don't have that many electrical storms but as you know the gentleman who passed it was like 7:00 at night and if I think Karen you told me the siren would go off initially but the strobe light would stay on as long as the liting was within 10 miles and I I think I think it's a great thing I think it is a town thing I think there are too many people during the summer that come down that are not aware of the weather they don't keep an eye on the sky they don't recognize when a storm's coming they're on the beach or they're walking around and they don't want to shelter and I would hate to see someone else die because they were hit by lightning and it could be avoided by using that system so I I suggest be extended Beyond be hours thank you thank you with that we'll CL I want to come up and say something and everybody opens up their mouth anybody else comes up here they shoot their mouth off two or three times it's a little rude and it's a little disrespect how about that okay you can put that on the record now okay everybody got that all right every single time it's the same story it's old I got respect for you and everybody else when you come up okay specific okay now let's get started as far as the windmills goes I am very excited about the mayor and Council passing this resolution about the windmills okay I'll tell you why because that little spec okay that that little spec that we're going to see off the New Jersey coast off the Seaside Park off of Atlantic City wherever it is off of off of the Garden State anywhere in the state New Jersey's been a Dumping Ground of okay for New York and everybody else for the past 100 years okay and we're taking a position that that we don't want this here okay and that's why the mayor and counsil I encourage them to sign it vote on it post it send it to Trenton okay because Trenton are the same is exactly where we want it to go because right now as we speak as of two days ago I have pictures of a cell tower okay planted right in the middle of Island Beach State Park okay under the same Administration that wants to put the windmills off the New Jersey coast right off a tight sh we need a 5G Tower take a ride tomorrow and take a look at it because that's the direction that the state Park's going in and that's the direction that the rest of the state's going to go in we're going to industrialize everything you're the very person that wants to protect the the natural habitat but one hand but on the other hand you you're okay if you see uh um visual lter off the New Jersey coast that freighter that's going by it's temporary okay to me and to many other people the the windmills are not something that we need here in the Garden State let them do them off of all the other states okay great it's not going to lower my electric bill it's not going to lower any else's electric bill okay might be putting some money in somebody's pocket along the way but I'm not seeing it here Seaside part so I think it's a good idea that the mayor and Council votes on thank you thank you sir I would entertain a motion from the council to close the work session and then immediately go into the regular meeting