##VIDEO ID:6WvCUbvKwKA## um okay this is the Board of Health meeting of August 21st we have a quorum uh including myself Katherine Hilton Norine peas um Arlene Reed and um Garrett [Music] Simonson and there are lots of people here and I would like a person named John and a person named Joseph's iPad to identify themselves please so that we can put them in the minutes John or Joseph Joe Salvador Joseph's is Joseph's iPad yes what's your who's Joseph's iPad when it's at home what's that who's Joseph's iPad whoever's using it what's your last name Joseph I need to put Salvador Salvador oh it's you Joe I didn't recognize kind of down there me nothing to do if I figure i' listen to your meeting today oh great we we are a real source of entertainment I know now John John who are you John may not actually be here all right I don't do I have my video on no I don't I'm sorry no you don't sorry it's been it's been already a long day yeah the um the convention is just keeping me up way past my bedtime and I'm really feeling it all right am I on now you are I I think Mary Joe Johnson has her hand up cat she does yes um I I just wanted to say that I am Mary Joe Johnson even though it says I'm Melody chartier this is not my computer so oh thank you um I'll put that all right thank you okay will you put your hand down now thanks all right um Board of Health let's do some let's do some uh business here first of all can we um can we approve the minutes of the previous meeting yes um as far as I'm concerned I move that we approve the meeting the minutes of the August 7th Board of Health meeting okay all in favor aren yes Garrett yes noren yes okay and me and uh whim is not here okay um I have a a minor item that's not on the agenda um maryan reported to me that they have found a well an abandoned well on the lot at 032 it's down near the road on the I think on the east side ni okay whim says he's coming um and so I have instructed her to um to apply for a well demolition permit which basically amounts to filling in the well and she's going to consult this guy Ezra from the drilling company to find out what they recommend you know do we know whether it's a deep well or a Doug well she says it's 9 ft so Doug well presumably it's a Doug well yeah um and last time we had a well demolition the well the well expert who was on it you know I said get it filled in with bentonite but the well guy said in that particular place it would have to be that that just wasn't going to be effective and what what we really needed to do was fill it with rocks so I said fine um uh can I have your authorization to issue this well destruction permit once it gets um properly submitted presumably between now and September 4th so moved and uh all in favor garrot yes Arlene yes Norine yes okay and cat so I will issue that when it gets here try to keep them try to keep them on the way don't see the link oh um Can somebody send the link to whim I'll do it thank you um we also have a sort of minor piece of business um 212 wendle road is being um is being divided and they have um an application for a dis disposal works construction permit um it's lot h46 Claudia has seen it and um recommended uh approval the fees are paid I would like to go ahead and issue that permit I'm sorry CAD is this a septic permit what was what kind of permit yes okay disposal disposal works construction permit new construction is that right it is new construction yeah construction yeah because they they have that Big Lot in the back and they're they're separating it out okay all right uh so moved okay okay all in favor Garrett yes noren yes Marlene yes yeah yet okay I'll take care of that um I want to come back briefly to the question of 56 wendle Road um I have and I think I S circulated to the board um a draft of an order um to to proceed within with demolition within 60 days and uh um I've been in contact a little bit with Donna McNichol who alarmed me very much by saying well is the town prepared to front the money and then sell the the um the lot to pay for it and I I said well wait I don't you know I don't want to take their property if we can possibly avoid it uh and she she sent me some very very confusing information about what else could be done but the the the upshot was that we can go ahead and issue the order um for demolition within 60 days and then we can um um we we don't have we're not required after the 60 days if nothing happens to to take the owners to court right so there may be other ways other ways around this and maybe they will comply who knows so that's just that's just um background here um this let just to sum up this house has been in a burndown condition for something like five years I think and no significant um oh limbs in the waiting room um no significant um progress has been made in all this time so I am asking the board to uh to agree to issue a demolition order requiring complete demolition of the of the um the house uh within 60 days and I know that the person wants to wants to keep a couple of the permanent features and they have the right to request a hearing and ask for our permission to do that so that I don't think that's a an obstacle for us right now that we can move forward and issue this um and issue this order and try to get moving forward I just need um clarification if I may request it um that if there if they non-compliant and we do choose to go to court does that mean the town is does that lead us down this path of the town then taking their property um or is that for the courts to decide I imagine that's why you go to court is for them to decide but what do you know I don't know a lot about it I would have to I would have to ask Donna some more questions um but I do know that the first thing that happens if you go to court is mediation that's a requirement they try to mediate um so whatever happened would be still further down the road so okay we' have 60 days and possibly then after the 60 days go to court and then we would have this required mediation and attempt to um damn it oh there's somebody else um then we would um then we would have to see what happened at that point Sorry I'm Late welome nice to see you we're glad to have you the um does our petition for the demolition specify what those permanent features are no we have an order drafted that says Raise It To The Ground if and I know that they are hoping to salvage the front wall which is made of Redwood or something and possibly a fireplace um if they want if they continue to want to save those pieces they have the right and it's spelled out in the um in the order uh they have the right to request a hearing right and ask us to amend the order it seems a little bit cleaner to me for us to go in and say take it down and they may want to come back and say well we we'll take it down accept these things if that's all right got it is there any other discussion or question on this matter no I would be happy to see the order go through okay would you like to make a motion to that effect yes I would move that we um order the owners of 56 wendle road to raise the building to the ground within us the mentioned 60-day period yeah okay seconded okay all in favor whim yes Arlene yes norin yes Garrett yes cat yes okay I will send it out and I will also I will also reach out personally to the to the owners and let them know that this is coming and kind of try to put them in the picture and also try to get in the picture because we have not heard from them for wow they have resped they have not responded to previous attempts right but I will try again now the evening's entertainment we have many people here who were apparently interested in this question of uh uh the town is proposing an initiative to mitigate not lead and I'm not quite sure where we want to start here I know that Garrett has some concerns and I do also um about the proposal that we have seen um and we have Mary Joe here to Mary Joe maay that is to um to tell us about the proposal Garrett would you like to lead off with your concerns would that be do you think that would be a good way to start out I think the better way to start would be to hear from Mary Joe first okay Mary Joe Havey walk us through um The Proposal um yeah let um hold on just one second I just lost it just a second ago isn't that always the way um so um we started the subduing not weed Coalition about out uh last October um because we saw such Devastation um and so we have been working um pretty hard to figure out you know Solutions and the more we look the harder it is to determine any feasible reasonable Solutions um we've spent a good period of time doing a lot of research um and um trying to be very scientific about it um and and we as a group um I I'm leading the Coalition and and Pam um is leading the shoot Berry but she Al also is doing the Conservation Commission so we we didn't we wanted to do something here in SHO be um but we we wanted to be very careful about it Pam has been in a pollinator um group for 20 years I'm an organic Gardener um I've never used herbicides um I certainly didn't go into this thinking that we might use herbicides um and and um um um so so it's it's very it's a very difficult situation um uh but we don't want it to get to be like monu or lever where people can't so um we have been working with the Conservation Commission and with the T the select board we've had three meetings with the select board we've talked to the Conservation Commission um we're working with Brian cier who really is the author of the main portion of this that has been approved by the Conservation Commission The Proposal but the select board asked us to help them help them this is actually their document although we have helped them put it together um you know give some facts about why we want to do um what we what we're proposing and um also get um to make sure that other groups like your group because um we we have a situation in here in SHO Berry where there's a a sub a septic system that had been filled with knotweed um use that fill and it has knotweed all over it so um so so we're concerned and so we've put together we tried to keep it short keeps getting longer but um you know the fact that not weed is so difficult um it is in our our opinion it is the worst invasive it has a monoculture it it has erosion poor water quality um reducing insect population reducing fish population all those kinds of things and and then um excuse me I'm sorry about that and then um in addition um it has we've seen it go through um we have a video that shows it going right through pulling up concrete um so it's it's a dangerous invasive that is much more in difficult and dangerous than our terrible Oriental Oriental Bittersweet all of our other invasives in our in our opinion um our focus in our group is is early detection so we just had a seminar on using I naturalist um to map not weed and find it before it grows because if we find it very early and you see it on the road and we have a team of people that we're putting together that will come and dig it help you dig it up or dig it up um we can really get rid of it from and stop it from moving so we really our major thrust is to work on trying to early detection and removal um that said as you probably have seen it has um proliferated in terrible um we have looked the the worst way that it it um is spreading is through mowing mowing is the biggest spreader and that is mainly by Highway departments so we're working we're we're hoping to be working on training for Highway departments in the state of Massachusetts um and and trying to get them not to mow it um you can cut people pull it um but there's evidence that when you pull knotweed it actually Mo it because almost all of its carbohydrates all of its it are underground it actually goes out it it spreads and we've seen it come go underneath the road and come up on the other side so often we might be thinking that we got rid of knotweed um but we really haven't or it can stay dormant for over five to seven years and then come up again um uh so these things have actually pulling it cutting it and mowing it are primary ways that not we spreads um tarping can work um can work it takes at least five years um we have there's a video on on um on next door shoots Berry that shows tarping and how if there's a little corner it breaks right through that tarp um so it's a difficult thing and particularly um on a road on an edge of a roadway it's not really a feasible feasible thing it can spread you know uh actually an eighth of an inch of it that big of its stem can spread the other problem is that there's a big risk for mechanical removal um one is we just don't have any place to put it and this video that's on next door shows in Connecticut it shows all these DPW Highway departments where they put their fill all have not weed in their Highway departments because they have pulled the not weed out dropped it and now it's spreading farther um so those are all difficult um and um so it's really urgent that we move quickly because once it gets on the W near the water which is the worst part then our options are even more limited really isn't a good way there isn't really a good way um and um you know I know that a lot of people don't um uh put a lot of credit on the Environmental Protection Agency but they have really reviewed a lot of work and have found that glyat itself that is not as as difficult for the human health at they just don't have evidence that it is still may be and we're not and the other thing about it is that um you know right now um we have horn that's not um that's uh glycate um resistant right so now we have places all around the country where Pilots are spraying not weed on corn um we have lots and lots of people buying Roundup and spraying in their yards um but what we're talking about is a very very limited spraying um very limited um it's a back sprayer it's going to use very small um amount of glycate we're not going to use Roundup Roundup has surfacant that are more dangerous um than glycate so we use um an approved thing called agrid um that doesn't have some of those toxic things um Steve Sullivan is very much on board he has both the time and the experience to do this he is he was certified and he let that lapse and he is hopefully going to be getting his certification um very soon um so the pro proposal is um to identify and we we sent this to you Pam I I think Pam sent it to you or I sent it to you the um six different spots um these are all small spots none of them are near Water none of them are near homes um and um um and so um we basically took um although there may be a little more I can add on this I was just looking at this over today but we basically took the approved um process that was approved by the Conservation Commission for the library library and that has been I believe already sprayed sprayed um and use that Brian cair who who put that together gave us permission to do that along with Maryann the librarian um and so we're hoping to spread you know the the plan is for Steve if the town approves it um that um to to do this small spraying in SE probably September um and then possibly to come back unlikely to come back but possibly to come back in um in October if there's any extra and the new research coming out of England has shown that 's there's a possibility that some of the romes in can be then sprayed again in the spring um um but this is an Adaptive plan that Brian said so it's not absolutely prescriptive it's based on the way that the um knotweed performs um and and I'd also like to say that the Nature Conservancy uses this method um the aabon uses this method the um uh Forest the National Force service uses these this type of method um to control knotweed they all um they all recommend for not only not weed but other or other invasives um especially the US Department of for Forest that um the things I've read that said that in the appalachi we would not have our forest our forest would be gone if they hadn't controlled with a limited herbicide and you know this is difficult um for our group because we understand and really appreciate how people are are are against using um herbicides but we believe that this is um um is the is the balance that we can make to really I mean what happens with we we lose so much biodiversity with naweed because nothing grows and we also don't have new trees coming so we don't have the carbon sink that we would have if we didn't have um not weed so and the water quality effect the water quality so that's the water quality and the septic and some of the other things are why we wanted to involve the um Health Department so that that's in a nutshell um what we tried to do here the select board is the ones that asked us to kind of help put this together so that we could get um a Buy in hopefully um to do do this work on a very limited basis um but I can be happy to answer any questions Mary Joe you have isolated these um these six Parcels um what what percentage of all the not weed you've identified in shsb is is included in these six Parcels very small part but we wanted to um you know we wanted to start with a simple easy to do um and see how that goes and then move forward with hopefully further are there other questions from the board members for Mary Joe yes but I I would like to hear Garrett's concern first and and norin has her hand up so we'll let norin go first yeah I just I didn't f i I got the proposal but I didn't see the uh six areas and I wonder if that could be addressed or if someone has them I did send it to you Norine I actually sent that first and then realized I'd sent the wrong thing so you do have it the pieces are um uh they're mainly on MOX Pound Road I think Pat I have it open do you want me to read the yes would you say that be great thank you Garrett uh so it's the first one is Lake View Road uh labeled parcel c35 so two patches on the hill on the road the second par parcel is locks Pond Road parcel D 109 on the ditch right before steans Road third is lock lock Pond Road parcel d19 from steans road to 347 locks Pond also on locks Pond Road same parcel between 375 and 380 on the road these patches are all on the right side of the road heading up the hill that is to say on the West Side uh fifth is Town Farm Road and corner of Prescott Road six is uh 21 coyville Road parcel uh 051 and school and then so there's seven not six uh Schoolhouse Road between 43 and 54 and then it's labeled as parcel r28 with a question mark So SE seven locations in total thank you thank you okay Garrett do you want to uh um yes so Mary Joe you know thank you for the work that the group put into uh collecting all of this information and putting forward a a proposal um you know I think I think my biggest concern is that I my preference would be to see a management plan in place uh prior to approving uh treatment or application of herbicides on particular locations and and the reason for that is that in my mind the management plan would spell out the process for seeking those approvals um and that the management plan would ideally be um jointly developed with the board of uh the select board Conservation Commission Board of Health and working with the not weed uh task force group um to put together that management plan so what what we were presented with is in part a management plan um and and when I went out and looked at other um invasive management plans across the Commonwealth there are a number of elements in in the document that we were provided that are in management plans in other communities but there are also a number of things that aren't there um that I think we would probably want want to see there you know one example would be around you know if during an application there was a spill what are the mediation measures you know how how do we um remediate a spill um any personal protective requirements for an individual who's doing the application um so so that that's my primary concern is I I I would prefer to see a man agement plan in place before being asked to consider um herbicide application on any particular location I I can respond respond to that um I think we be ha more than happy to do that um we used pretty much although there there are parts of the other I was as I was looking at it just earlier today I realized that there were parts of the plan that was done for the library that was approved um that um we didn't include in ours um that we could add but um the one that Brian did for the library that was approved by the select board and the Conservation Commission didn't have these in it but I'm I'm would think that that's a good idea and I would be happy to to put those you know research that and put those in in it and you know uh ident work with you Garrett or whoever to make sure those things are there and and I do think that we may um we thinking it through it a bit I I I kind of agree with you that um we want we wanted to do something this year we wanted to try to move forward this year and so we thought that if we just tried this with um a small thing we could at least kind of get you know our ducks and R in order um and and then next year move forward but I think that that you're right I think a more comprehensive plan would be good um and even if that means we can't do it this year which would be a disappointment um just because we feel like um we really want to move forward forward and we know how fast it grows but um but on the other hand um if there's other things or if you can send me those a copy of some of those other ones um we we could certainly add that and I'd be really happy to do that um um you know and I think maybe um we want to C we want to keep it um adaptive management apparently um I've read up on adaptive management versus prescriptive management and the idea is that you don't want to say I'm going to exactly do this if the if the not weed does X or Y you know so um so so that's a little bit making it slightly more difficult for me to understand how to do it but I I really think that we we could do those things and those are good suggestions and and Mary Joe do you know at these seven locations have there been other mitigation actions taken outside of uh spraying we don't we we don't believe so there there are there are places in shuberry and this is why Sho Berry doesn't look like Leever and monteu because there was Cur previously spraying that was done um and that has kept things up but we did notice that some of the places sprayed are are back um so these These are looking in fact um we're we're thinking that the one on Schoolhouse Road may be able to be dug up um that's our Our Hope and then um and and the other thing is if we're digging up we we also need to put in um plans on how to do that because that's important too um so we can put that in too I would like to see a sort of hierarchy of of um mitigation actions um in order of desirability right with probably spraying being the least desirable and digging up perhaps being the most desirable and then right that as part of the mitigation plan so that there would be specific steps okay either we've tried this or we haven't tried it but we can see that it wouldn't work because right and and we did put in there that you know the the tarping doesn't work on the road there's just no way to do that on the road the other problem is we can only really dig up small patches at this point in Massachusetts now in England they can because they have ways of of digging it up and and then um mitigating it afterward I'm I'm not asking you defend any particular way what I'm saying is that in the in the management plan I think that that should be part of it that there would be okay sure sure sure all the possibilities and there pros and cons and where they can be used and where they can't Y and I think we have a some of that in in here um some of that in here but we could make it a little more explicit because we do talk about we do have just as notes um about how the really the only thing we can do toit large patches is spray small patches very small patches we can try to dig but large patches on roads um the only thing we can do is spray all right whim I um yeah I appreciate your concern um and the work you've done so far my question is about the mechanics of spraying so you said that um Steve did have a registered applicator license but it lapsed um I wonder about um whether that license I believe would for Public Lands would have to be en force in order for someone to actually spray and I wonder about the the patches you spread that you said that have already been sprayed that was like seven years ago and were they on private property I I don't know they were around the shsb town hall and some of that was not sprayed but but wiped and then it was I know that there was a patch on West pelum Road that was sprayed about seven years ago and now it's back got it so yeah I I mean glyphosate has had a tremendous amount of press um I I think that it is a chemical that you really do need a a a licensed person to apply absolutely absolutely and I also from my understanding of it as a farmer is that you um it it is much more effective when the the target plant is actively growing so I think although there is you know we we appreciate your sense of urgency I think that um that it it would be much more effective in the spring the growing season is over no not not with the all the research shows that September is the time to do to do it because in September the in August in but mostly in September it is pulling all of its carbohydrates down into the romes so if you're spraying earlier there is a possibility that there's certain kinds of parts I I don't understand this at all completely but parts of that don't get hit on SE in the September but the the main re way to do it is is before it freeze before a frost and in September because at that time in the spring the um the nutrients are coming up well in the fall the uh knotweed pulls its nutrients down so nutrients September is um if you watch the video that was done in Connecticut they they spray in September that is um a pretty well documented um thing that um spraying in in um in September is is the time to spray all right um and what about um resistance is there not weed resistance to glyphosate there is there there is and um we had a whole dis uh email chain about discussion of that um and um and Brian felt like the process that we were doing wouldn't have that problem because yeah I'm not I can't I can't tell you right now exactly why but he he he said that we we we had this brought up and we we had a discussion and he he felt like this was not an is issue if we did it the way he was saying um to do it I can ask I can ask for more information but that's what he said there are there are cases and I think a lot of those cases are mostly ones where it wasn't done properly it wasn't done in the fall so I think you get the more resistance if you're doing it in the spring and the and not in the fall where people have um you know sprayed thinking you know the logic that you had and that doesn't really kill do anything to kill the romes it kills pop but the ryom are um so strong that that doesn't that doesn't kill them and often starts them moving outward um so I think that the most of the resistance happens when it's not sprayed enough it's not followed up um those kinds of things are are what what I think are the main reasons but I don't know exactly for sure I just know that we had this discussion and Brian Brian said he didn't think it was an issue at this point M are you aware if there's any difference in efficacy um between um spraying wiping and um injection so I think injection um Can can work I I think that um the the and and that is something we really did consider and want but I think that um brianf felt and Steve felt that that wasn't that feasible given the sizes and the and that and then wiping really wasn't going to work either unless you have just a very small teeny patch okay I also have some a question about sort of jurisdictional issues who has the right to permit or to stop these treatments so that's that's a good question and a and I'm not an expert on that for sure but I I believe that if it's not near water and it's on the right away of the um of a road that the superintendent and the select board have jurisdiction that it's not something that the Conservation Commission has jurisdiction over or the Board of Health or anyone else I believe on a right away the select board and the um and the highway are the ones that can do that um that said we have chosen to involve you in the conservation Commission because we wanted to make sure that you know we wanted to present what we had see what was issues um you know work with you um as you see it says it's a draft it's not it's not in stone at all we weren't we were just starting out with the best we could um and you know and basically following the directions of of of all three members of the board who have you know both of all said they they want something like this and would like you know the particularly the Conservation Commission we we made the decision to involve you because we did think that there's a board of health issues involved and and that you have knowledge of things that we might not have and so we wanted to to involve you but I think the real jurisdiction in these patches that are all very close to the road all very much in the right way all very lone alone is really the superintendent and the selectboard okay and now I I attended that workshop at the elementary school that Brian did I think that was Brian and um I believe I heard him say that the the the pure glyphosate that's not in for example Roundup um that that's not commercially available to um you know civilian so that basically you have to be um probably a licensed pesticide applicator do you know anything about that well I just yesterday talked to someone from the mass audabon um who has done this work work and she seemed to think you could get it at places like Agway or stuff so I I'm not sure but she seemed to think that it was available and so I'm assuming that homeowners who have who have not weed on their property that's not in the jurisdictional area governed by the Conservation Commission have the right to to take action on it with this yeah yes they do they do they do so yeah they they do and and that's you know we we absolutely do not recommend um to homeowners that say use chemicals we we don't recommend that at all we have three um V is uh professional licens people on our website and we we um steer people to that we do tell them about early applica early um digging um and um we do tell them about very very important is how to dispose of anything you dig which has to be um put on an impervious surface and dried um before getting rid of it um and even putting it in plastic bags can be problematic it can just go right through the plastic bags um so so we do we do give that information out we do have that on the website we're working on more information for people um we just um put this um video um or Stevie Stevie Dunn who does our mapping and I naturalist work um he put that on next door um so it really encourage people to watch that video um and to read um once we get this fact sheet done even if we're not um actually doing the proposal right now we would like to get that fact sheet out to to the public so that they can you know look at the resources that we have we're going to be adding the nature conserves um information on that um just because we just we just found out about that um so we don't absolutely do not ask and recommend people do that um and we don't really have good Solutions um and that's part of the problem is if we had good Solutions we would be using that but you know it's it's so difficult and it's so uh awful to go down the Deerfield River and see what what's there right tell me about the website where is this website um so the website um on this thing thing here there's a a QR code to the website um um and then there's a link on your your thing not we control subduing not we Coalition here's our website okay and there there's our link it it's you know it is a work in process um don't have quite as much information as we would like but um but we are are working on that okay are there more questions and comments from the Board of Health um I had a question just briefly um Mary Joe when you referred earlier to wanting to avoid the situation that Leverett and monu have found themselves what um I I imagine you're referring to a bad problem with roadside overgrowth and or maybe encroaching Beyond roadsides but what river water waterways waterways particularly okay and that is because they took no action or they they took no action they took no action at all okay as far as we as far as we know we we we haven't seen evidence of action um certainly in New Hampshire I've seen a lot of evidence where where um people are control the towns are controlling it on their on their rural roads okay in Connecticut they've um the the scenic can't remember the river but the scenic Scenic River there um they they've been controlling it there but um yeah yeah it without action it's going to continue to um yeah it's just going to continue to get worse and worse and it's going to get close more you know roads have their problems but in reality what really worries us is the ri is the waterways waterways okay I just wasn't sure if it was uh no action at all or if they had pursued a different course that complicated and actually they have they've mowed it and that's what really spreads it so mowing it is the worst worst thing and we're we would like to get training in the state for um for uh Highway departments and the state to to stop mowing it Amur is still mowing it despite people asking them not to what's the alternative to mowing so herbicides really is the is not mowing it and using herbicides and is there any evidence to support the use of Horticultural vinegar uh no there is none and um I just talked to the person and um person in vinegar is actually worse for our environment than glycate vinegar does not um degrade gly ofate degrades if there's a micro if there's micro action you know it can it can be gone in like two weeks um and it clings to the soil so as it's going down that spit it is clinging to the soil unless you had a huge flood there's no there's almost no way it's going to get into water systems because it clings to the soil oil vinegar on the other hand is actually dangerous you really do need to use we actually use some vinegar on um we did some patches on on um pelum Hill Road just to because the um chair of the Conservation Commission had suggested that might be an alternative and it did not kill the naweed um so vinegar is actually worse than glycate gly at um degrades especially in a where we live where there's a lot of microbes it'll degrade very quickly um and it'll cling well vinegar will go right into the water systems really bad for amphibian really bad for fish um what else did she say it was bad for I can't remember but it's it's not a good thing so vinegar is actually worse okay salt is is even worse thank you naturally so it's sounding actually Mary Joe like you've got three documents here you've got you've got um an action plan for a sort of pilot program for your six or seven um uh chosen sites you've got um a a management plan that needs to be evolved and you've got a fact sheet for public consumption yeah and they and originally they were were were two documents and we just ended up somehow putting them into one document um but that that is true yeah it seems to me that you're going to need to to take them back apart and and work on each one separately and in in Greater depth and in detail that's my yeah that that that's a fair suggestion that's a fair suggestion We There were pros and cons to both and uh we ended up with this um which Mary Joe what is the what's been the outcome of the at the library site where spraying has already occurred was was it it just I actually for don't know for sure that it occurred it was supposed to occur in the beginning of a and I don't I don't know the results of that thank you am I correct in reading the sense of the meeting that we would not we would not want to take action to to approve or disapprove this document uh at this time that we would want a more fleshed out document that ideally would be presented to us at our next meeting which would be September 4th and and Mary Joe earlier you said that the management plan the owner of the management plan is the select board yes okay you know my my preference would be for there to be a management plan in place that spells out the conditions that the town um you know puts in place for considering App application can you explain that a little bit more you know so so based on the document that we were provided to me the way that it reads is that we're looking for the select board the Conservation Commission the Board of Health and the Town Administrator to sign off on a plan and in a management plan I I would want to see that process outlined um and what roles and responsibilities the Conservation Commission has for approval compared to the Board of Health um I'm I'm sorry I'm not quite understanding that but maybe we could talk offline or something I don't know if that's if we can do that um well for example I think you said that for roadways it's really the purview of the Board of Health and the uh I mean not the Board of Health the select board and the um and the um Highway the highway department right right okay okay that makes sense okay okay yeah yeah yeah and and I was also seeing that on the I think I saw the proposal had um places for every single member of the Board of Health to sign off and it as opposed to just the board taking action and then a signature from the Board of Health if that's if that's even required but it didn't seem to me like a signature from every member of the board was needed I would agree that okay that that's fine that's fine we were we really weren't sure um one of our committee members who work who had been on a Conservation Commission seemed to think that was the way to do it but okay we're we're we're absolutely fine fine with that um that was just um just like you said like we said a draft right okay so so to reiterate here you are seeking our signatures at the request of the select board I believe so I don't know why I'm here doing it instead of them but but but I care about it and they're busy so we appreciate your being here inde yes because it's not we're we're we're here to help um we're here to help the town you know if the town doesn't want to do this then that's the town's you know then the town that's the town's view um but I think the one of the things was that when there was spring that Stephen Sullivan really felt like he was being attacked a lot and I think that um that we don't want that to happen again so um so I think that um Stephen Steve has been just amazing and very um you know really careful really willing to do this really um and and we don't want him to be attacked um for doing this we want it to be something that the town ha has stood by and we want to do it right if we you know we can't do it this year then we can't do it this year um um but we we want we do want to do it right and I think that was the motivation and and you know the select board two and I have been attacked you know we we've been kind of viciously attacked um and um and verb you mean verbally verbally verbally Steve's been attacked ver or not anybody believe verbally I believe verbally I believe there I don't think as far as I know no one has attacked him does need police protection but but but but the point the point the point is I think that they wanted to really cover their basis and we I actually suggested the Board of Health because I thought like I said you know you guys have a lot of knowledge and and it does affect um it does the water quality and other things are are under your purview and so we wanted to um do that but you know so far I just think your suggestions are are better than ours and that's a learning process and that's partly why we wanted to include you so so the thing that ultimately we would be willing or not willing to sign but the thing that would be appropriate for us to sign seems to me is um um a management plan simply management plan that spells out everything that can and could be done and how it is to be done um as far as signing off on individual um uh treatments on individual sites that does not seem to be our um perview our purview our jurisdiction am I do the rest of the Board of Health do you feel the same way I do well yeah if it's all if the decision making is exclusively in the hands of the select board and the highway department yes for roadsides I mean right I agree so can I can I just ask I'm interested um in the biology of this plant and so I i' I I understand I've been corrected about the peculiarity of the translocation of carbohydrates and in the fall is the appropriate time to spray but once this knotweed sets seed isn't it true that it doesn't matter if you spray it if there's already seed because doesn't it also spread by seed it the it it really doesn't spread by seed at least the um not weed that we're talking about the regular not weed that not weed we have here um it it is pretty much asexual there's studies that show that all the not weed and I can't quote this exactly so I could be wrong about the Geographics but some Studies have looked and it's the same plant there's like one plant it's just it's an asexual um there are some types of knotweed that do seed and then there are some hybrids that do seed but at this point as far as I'm aware that's not what we're dealing with so it it doesn't it it does have flowers and it does have pollinators but it but it doesn't really spread by seed it's covered with flowers but there is but they're sterile is what you're saying apparently yeah I heard Brian say the same thing back in the back in the spring yeah and I mean in that in that regard it it's a little bit that's an advantage because we don't have birds and such um spreading it um so that that is one of the few things that makes it you know a little better y good question though I would think that we would like to continue this discussion uh sure to our next meeting um with some some more detailed PR you if yeah so so so my thought is that uh we'll we we'll take sort of the fact sheet stuff and put that in one in a different document and come to you with the ma more of the management plan that has um some of the details that Garrett um talked about um is Garrett is if I give you my my email is on the you have Mya email um if you could send me some of that stuff and I could communicate with you a little bit ahead of the meeting to see if you know so I can make some changes that you think are appropriate I'd be really happy to do that and and Mary Joe this document's also been shared with the Conservation Commission I assume it is and to meeting is tomorrow night okay great so there's similar conversation going on with them right right right is this document excuse me I'm just is this document available online for the public I don't see it on any of the Town websites or the not weed Coalition website no I I don't know who's speaking but and I apologize but um you know we've been talking no it it is not it's not a public document at this point it's just a draft document so there was a I'm just trying I'm sorry may I ask I'm just trying to understand is there I'm I'm sorry I don't know who I'm speaking withum defont and I understood there was something the Conservation Commission had approved and um there sounds like there's a map um with locations and I don't see any of this available online for the public even though it sounds like some decisions been made about those no no there's been no decisions made about any of this this is all new new new and and it's all draft form so none of it has been um available we are hoping we're very much hoping to get something out soon and we may get maybe get the fact sheet out without the management soon that would be available um through the select board in in whatever way they wanted to use the fact sheet um we we can do that um but at this point no this is just a draft docu internal draft document as far as I know um I've had my hand raised for about 45 minutes and I'm just wondering um for Madam chair would you allow some questions from the public yes I would yes I would provided that the uh The Other Board of Health members are finished with their discussion is there any more discussion or can I take questions from the public now okay hearing none miam you have the floor thank you so this is Miriam defont from 74 pre Corner Road thank you for your information Mary Jo I really appreciate it and thoughtful questions from the Board of Health I have some comments and just a couple of questions um couple comments that I have is that and maybe I'm wrong but my understanding was that vinegar does biodegrade it doesn't degrade easily in bottles if it's stored but my understanding was in nature when it's subject to other kind of biological processes it does break down I might be wrong about that um one of the procedures that I didn't hear discussed and I'm hoping that the not Weg Coalition will look at it is what's been described as mesh girdling as an alternative to tarping where a metal mesh is staked down over cut um a cut and treated area so that it doesn't allow it to uh flower or um Leaf out and it starves the roots of carbohydrates and eventually helps to weaken and kill the plant and that is probably a more labor intensive and more useful strategy along roadsides because it's more rugged than plastic um and I hope the Coalition will at least look at those options um I don't know if you're aware of it or the Board of Health is aware of it but a group of residents have had concerns and a petition was started um to raise awareness about this and as of tonight we have over a hundred signatures from shutesbury residents which I think speaks to the need for public engagement and participation so it's concerning that some of these plans and details that are being discussed internally are not being made available to the public because I think the public wants to know more about where is this spraying going to happen what is it going to look like what is the overall plan going to look like um and wondering what the process will be in terms of engagement from a Butters if a particular location is going be sprayed will a Butters be given an opportunity to weigh in before that happens will they be notified will um the town look to see if there are any sensitive areas on people's AB buding property that might be affected by the spring perhaps there's a garden or trees or a Vernal pool that perhaps the highway department can't see from the road but an AB butter might provide that information and have concerns about it so I just feel like the public engagement piece is really important um and um whether or not we want to debate about glyphosate I think is is not a topic for tonight but I think that the process of Engagement in public communication and having a two-way conversation with the butters is really important um in terms of jurisdiction I I haven't um communicate directly with the Conservation Commission but I've looked over the regulations around what is exempt under the Wetland protection act and what is not and if you are doing repair work within the paved footprint of the road which is the paved footprint of the road that is usually considered to be exempt under the wetlands protection act but vegetation removal in the right of way is not considered exempt um and in fact that's why Highway departments across the state apply for bundled notices of intent with conservation Commissions in order to do vegetation removal and resource areas in the rights of way um I'm aware from just the locations you mentioned from my own knowledge of town that a couple of those locations are in Riverfront area of a perennial Stream So they are in an area under the jurisdiction of the wetlands protection act um and probably the bylaw as well and under the wetlands protection act veget herbicide spraying um in the riverfront area is not exempt and usually is requiring a notice of intent in fact if you look at the paperwork and the regulations for notices of intent they even mentioned herbicides spraying so it is it is a thing that notices of intent are particularly um in Riverfront area or um areas of that sort if it's not in Riverfront area if it's just in the buffer zone the ri the wetlands protection act requires that an RDA be submitted with a professional delineation so I guess what I'm wondering about is is there a plan for a professional delineation that will also include communicating with the butters to make sure that any resource areas that are outside of the RightWay are known to the delineator because again you could have a hedge and a wetland right on the other side of the Hedge and somebody looking from the road wouldn't necessarily know that there's a Vernal pool or a bvw if it's hidden from view um and yet the right of way would be in the buffer zone of that that resource area so professional delineation would be in order for an RDA at the very least that's just under the wetlands protection act that's not even looking at what our our bylaw would require so those are questions I have and maybe those are questions best left for the Conservation Commission but I'm surprised to hear that the Conservation Commission doesn't believe it has any jurisdiction in this matter because other conservation commissions have issued notices of intent um I'm sorry orders of conditions for things very similar to this um but that is not really a conversation for tonight I think um but I think that if you can make more information available on your town your website I think that would be helpful to the public um and just for purposes of tonight's meeting since you've discussed it you went through the list of sites pretty quickly would you be willing to go over that list one more time or just show the list on screen share briefly so it's on the recording you know I think that would be helpful for people who are watching this recording or people who are here tonight thank you Garett do you still have that that um list of sites available I have it up yep no I've got it if okay y all right so here hang on I was thinking if you have it there I can you could do it as a screen share can you allow me to share yeah that's what I'm uh that's what I'm trying to do I guess I have to make you co-host and then and then you can screen share right one just give me a moment here sure while you are doing that um Mary Joe the other Mary Joe I'm sorry I forgot your last name Johnson uh did you have something to say yes I I did have a um I have a question um I just wanted clarification did did you say that the the library site had been sprayed recently or might be sprayed in the near future I I'm not sure okay um I I drove by it today and I saw what looked like some glyphosate that was not in good condition um but just in regard to that um and I I know that this is potentially controversial so I understand why there might be some reluctance but usually when when homeowners put herbicide on a lawn they'll put a little sign out saying that that's what they've done and um I personally walk up and down lox Pond Road um pretty regularly with my dog and as other people also walk along that road with pets and and children I think it's important if it's not already a part of your plan to include some way of informing the public about what is going to happen and what has happened um I just I I think for for Courtesy for a right to know um and and given um this is the first that I've heard of the plan so um given that it it would would appear that this is going to be kind of an ongoing thing and probably a good discussion I I hope that people are really open to involving the public in the conversation because it will give you in the end whatever the decisions are made about it um it it probably will give you more public support which it sounds like is something that would be really nice for the highway department at least in terms of carrying out whatever you're going to do that's all I have to say thank you I agree that um that more information for the public is probably you know all through the process both planning and execution is desirable and of course that is not our within our purview here that these I think are matters for the select board and I hope that you will bring them up there do we have more to say on this or can we adjourn Miriam's hand is still raised I don't know if she has another question or if she um yeah just the question I guess I had was has there been any professional delineation around these seven locations no so all that is to be decided by the Conservation Commission um and the we have we have no we we don't know about that and that's all within the purview of the Conservation Commission so we are bringing this to them um tomorrow night um and and that's you know their that's up to them they they may decide that you know they don't want to do it at all so then it won't be necessary so we we're just we're just trying to help help the town um um you know and yeah so that's that's that's all we have we don't we have the these sites were just picked as a uh least likely to be problematic um to see how that worked and to go through the process um so no they have not been thank you if there's nothing more from the Board of Health I would happily uh entertain a motion to adjourn second All In in favor whim yes Arlene yes norin noren you're there yes there she is Karen yes okay and K so the meeting is adjourned at 8:25 and we will continue this discussion assuming that the um the not weed committee um provides us with more information for our September 4th meeting right thanks very much to the committee for your work very much yes thank you yeah important stuff okay we are adjourned thank you all very much thanks and good night