##VIDEO ID:xGgCGpujuc4## I don't know um who can hear me couple of people are muted I can hear you okay good Jennifer I just want to say that when I try to click video it says oh let me tell you what it says it says you can't start your video because the host has stopped it so somehow you've deactivated our ability to do video and I can't help you from there um I don't know I haven't done anything to disable anybody's video um anybody else do video I have the same thing that you get huh me me too that's weird Okay so let's see start [Music] video here let me try this hold on so I have this thing where I can ask you to start your video are you able to do that there y okay all right there we go got everybody okay just about everybody so we need a few more people to get started I think one two three four five one more person I was just at the um Conservation Commission meeting and Bob Douglas is going to be delayed because they're currently meeting he wanted to just relay that okay and uh Jim's here right Eric Eric said he'd be here Steve said he would but um we have one two three four five I think we need one more person well while we're waiting how's everyone feeling feeling well thank how did you enjoy the town meeting Jennifer oh well you know I enjoyed the brevity of it resonate nice five minutes 10 minutes oh good here's shanon this might be Eric's here good who is Shannon's dad I wonder that's Steve Sullivan oh okay hi Steve get them to be okay good so I think we have a quorum here now one two three four five six seven so we can get started um I will say just for the record that those present at uh 7:33 are myself Jennifer Wallace Charlene galinski Steve Sullivan Tom Seer Eric stalker Jim Moore and Tracy mnon so we have an agenda which I have sent to everyone do you think there's a necessity to review that agenda or can we just um move on through it or or do you think it's a requirement to uh read the items on the agenda every meeting I go to they do review itef radio or I can go through it yeah okay so first order of business after we do this will be to review the minutes from July 11th I don't think there are any members of the public here so we don't need a public comment period I wanted to touch base and make sure that everyone is all okay with me remaining the coordinator that was something that was I mentioned last time but we didn't really make a decision on that I wanted to finalize the contact information list Charlene requested in addition to the agenda that we spent some time talking about the liaison role from the Lake wol Association to the task force uh I have not much of an update but a little bit on um the request through Becky to meet with the uh MVP representative I was hoping we could spend a good chunk of time talking about our Impressions and observations from reading that furog report and hopefully moving through to uh what we might do next with that and uh I have a section here called other business and then a motion to adjourn so that's our agenda okay so without any um further discussion then we can move to the minutes which I've sent to you all um Tom has made a suggestion about the minutes but uh why don't I receive comments from the group first were there any changes or um issues with the minutes that you'd like us to attend to okay so Tom do you w to um express some of your thoughts about the minutes I will add that Tom did write to me uh with some corrections typos and also a good suggestion which is to if someone is speaking and I record that in the minutes to indicate which one of us is speaking so it's clear from the minutes um but Tom you had some other suggestions I think yeah I don't my um message in front of me but I remember um uh mentioning names and uh just the types I think in the minutes themselves this time that was all I remember talking about but I also um uh wanted to offer any help or contribution to Preparing them or uh using the video record I know for some other committees that I'm familiar with sometimes the person making the minutes will um just do it from the video afterwards because during meaning it can be distracting task yeah to keep track of that is that the type of things you remembering that I wrote because that's what I'm remembering the other thing yeah I mean I did that's the way I recorded the I watched it but you had the suggestion yeah also Google do Google a shared Google doc thank you that was the other thing um and it keeps track of all the changes that way uh before this meeting people can contribute any Chang and it's already established in the document that we're discussing here so people can look at it just a few minutes before the meeting per se and um know the the current status of it so and it keeps track of all the changes if there's questions or whatnot to undo um because when I did it tonight or this morning um before I sent it to you I realized like oh I'm kind of creating you document potentially yeah just the one file but I don't know there could be cons to it um it seems to work for a couple committees I don't know how others of you feel I feel mostly not fluent in Google Docs first of all um and second of all there was something that was a little funky in my mind about everyone weighing in and adding comments to minutes when those might not be shared realizations from the group of those changes uh I was feeling like we do this we talk about if anyone had things that they recalled from the meeting or they think that should be in the minutes um Tracy you have your hand up yeah well I I was just going to ask are you meaning that we just put comments in or can we change the text because it would if we did it that way it would have to to me it you would need to put it in as a comment as a opposed to making a change to whoever typed it up originally right I also you know think that um you know the minutes as far as detail goes um the general you know gist of what was said seems to be the most important thing and not having to type up like you know everything that was said in the recording cuz that's just a lot of work for most of the time everybody's like yeah sure the minutes are great and the person who's written them has spent a ton of time on it so anyway that's all I have to say Charlene um I'm the clerk for the Lake ool Association and I I do the minutes for that group and I do know when when I took on that responsibility I did a little bit of research to see you know how do you write minutes and what do you include and what don't you include and one of the things um well two important things that I got from it is you have um you should be cautious about putting names in um so what I do with our minutes is if some if a board of director uh brings up for instance Bob Blanchet always reviews our financials I'll always say Bob Blanchet reviews um but other than that if if other um people say things I I try very hard not to include names and then the other thing is with minich a very uh important thing to be cautious of is to if people want to uh change the minutes that information must have been shared at the meeting it can't be added after the fact because then you don't have everyone uh knowing what is being added so that that's a huge piece of that um minute tap just I just wanted to let you know so I my feeling is since I'm not fluent in Google Docs and I don't really want to get up to speed on using Google Docs when there's so much other business if it works okay with you all to submit the minutes to you in an email attachment um and then we discuss it and make any additions or Corrections here in this meeting um that's the way I'm used to working but Eric's hand is up um you're muted Eric you'd think I'd know after all these years anyway um I I think the general concept of that the person who takes the minute should be the one doing all the all the editing is is true um I'm not sure but I think I sort of heard Tom just suggest that he he'd be willing to be the Secretary of this of these meetings maybe I'm not maybe I'm I don't mean to put words in his mouth but if he did I think that's fantastic and then away we go from there and Tom Tom sends out the minutes people have something they can say it and then and then I agree to meet the next meeting that's when you actually adjust the minutes and everyone agrees on what they what we're adjusting them to okay so Tom was that a was that an offer Eric's a really perceptive person well I don't know I I would I would gladly offer yeah definitely okay beautiful yeah it's yours thank you okay so on that score are there any additions to the minutes that I sent out was Eric saying something oh Eric were you still talking no just I'm not surprised you did that and I think and great that you did that's all okay yeah it's helpful thank you so any changes any issues anything about this weeks or last last meetings minutes that should be attended to all right good okay so how about um anyone want to take over the coordinator role oh excuse me just I think what we have to do now is somebody has to make a motion to accept the minutes and then it gets second oh that's right that's exactly right I make a motion that we accept the minutes second who wants second okay accepted minutes all in favor I I'll obain because I wasn't out here but I will abstain okay ey one exstension yeah when it's when it's a zoom meeting you have to do a roll call for everything oh yeah I'm just getting up to speed on that so should we redo this yeah okay so Eric stalker obain obstein Jennifer Wallace I Jim Moore good yes Tracy MCN hi Tom cyer hi Charlene galinsky hi Stephen Sullivan abstain okay two extensions okay so I'm gonna reach out to Eric Stephen and Bob for uh your contact information if you're open to that just to circulate between us case we need to reach each other by phone rather than email or uh the first meeting we had a power outage so we were all screening trying to find out what we could do and uh sending a text message or a phone message might be more um efficient if that's okay with you so I'll send you a separate note to collect your information and then I'll circulate that okay so that brings us to um Charlene your um interest in mentioning something about the leison rule between Lake wild Association and the task force right um I just wanted to uh have a a good understanding with the committee that my role is not to represent uh for instance if something comes up that uh requires a decision that maybe the Lake wola Association would uh in the future have to make cannot make that decision as a lone body on this particular committee so just an understanding that I will take information um from here that is pertinent for the lake uh wyola Association and share it with them as the liaison but I will not represent them as a whole body for any particular matter unless it's something that is decided later that comes to a a a meeting where that where the lake oil Ola Association has had time to discuss it that makes sense okay any other feedback for Charlene on that Tom yeah I was confused I thought from the agenda the extension or the expiration date told and So currently it's in January 2025 right in the middle of the draw down uh okay I just muted him oh thanks um I misunderstood the the agenda topic I thought it was going to be about the role of the liaison from the task for excuse me from Lake wola Association to the task force um I didn't understand that the task force would have a liaison to the Lake wola Association because I thought the task force would just speak as the task force and any Communications to anyone and that's that is what I that's what I meant to that I I will just take information back that is pertinent to the um Lake wola Association or it could be vice versa if they have questions which you know they may or may not then I certainly can bring those to the task force yeah I'm just saying that um I don't think we need a person to bring our messaging to the Lake whitea Association because we can just communicate with them directly um I thought that the role you were talking about was whether you would represent what they had to bring to us well I I think what created confusion for me at the last meeting and I was in error I sent you an email and I sent Tracy one as well as Jen um there was a lot of discussion about the open meeting and I I made a comment uh which was incorrect in that um I hadn't passed it by the L wola Association so that's what I'm referring to I will not speak on their behalf because I am just one of the 13 directors and um that is not my role to to uh guess what they might be thinking so I just wanted to clear that I I won't be making any decisions for the lake wyola uh Association if they should come up at this meeting and I'm sure they won't but I just I wanted it to be a unnown fact yeah that leaves me questioning what the liaison means if it's really a necessary like role I mean I I can I can say nothing I mean uh what I'll tell you what we do Tom we we have a section on our agenda every single time we have a meeting which is an update on Town meetings that are held some people watch conservation meetings some people watch select board meetings some and you know in my case I'm at the task force meeting and we just share something we heard at the meeting um just to keep everybody on the same page especially people who aren't living at the lake full-time so it it really is a I think one of the goals for the Lake wyola Association is to try to work collaboratively with the town and one way you can do that is to basically know what's going on so we do have that on our agenda every every week week um and it's a good thing because obviously not everyone goes to all the meetings and if it's something that involves Lake information it's good to know so it's that's basically the purpose of it so if you CH if this group doesn't want me to act on by reviewing what is said in the minutes for instance if if it's particular to the Lake wola Association obviously you wouldn't do the whole meeting um then I I don't I don't need to do that but um well we're a um public body and every meeting is open to them so I just don't understand the need for a leaon from the task force to the lwa okay feels like it's an extro okay we can I'm I'm gonna speak up here now um you know in my solicitation of participation in this task force I approached Charlene as a member of the board someone who lives here understands travels the roads you know it doesn't need to be a like a a big thing about leaon is it needed is it not needed she's a person a resident who has some valuable contributions to make to the discussion about this partnership that we're trying to create so I don't want to make especially a lot of time in our meeting about debating is it okay to have a liaison is it not what's their role um Charlene announced in the last meeting that that as a board they decided it was a good idea to have someone who was more informed about what was going on at the Town level and that that was something that she was interested in doing not just for our task force but in other instances so that was my understanding Charlene that that was what liaison meant is that and and I would hate to have you just be like a passive Observer who's sharing information you know I mean I think you have a valuable contribution right and I maybe Tom you're looking at that position as more formalized than I'm looking at it and Jen's looking at it it's just I guess I can look at it as a contact person because you know I do go to all the meetings and I do the minutes but um that I just see it as a contact person for the association I just don't see it as a contact person for us to the association and I think it's important that you share what you witness at these meetings any official message you would ever create for the lwa wouldn't come through you it would just come from the whole task force that's correct yeah so I think it would be great if you were actively telling them what's going on with us but it's not official messaging I guess and I thought the liaison might be something that you know only the liaison gives offic official messages across so I just wanted to make sure and I wasn't trying to infer that it would be official at all thanks that clears okay good so any other comments on on that topic okay all right so at the last meeting we talked about uh approaching Becky to enlist her services to approach the representatives from the um MVP Grant um Becky's feeling in her exact words was it sounds like a big ask but that she was going to ask anyway which she has done twice but hasn't heard anything back about their interest or willingness to come and meet with us um same thing with furog furog did say to in a communication to Mark rivers that they were glad that the task force existed and would be happy to come and talk with us uh but they haven't been able to respond to Becky either so those two things are out there and I'll keep following up with them I did want to say from looking at the MVP website that there is a lot they have a lot of resources that we could check into I think I sent you their web link but there are webinars they have um conferences where they're discussing different Community projects that are now in the work so you get a sense of what they funded and what the status and what their thoughts and about those projects are there's a to couple of toolkits that involve cost cataloges for structural improvements they have quite a lot of resources there and also I did learn that mid-march of 2025 will be the next um deadline so to speak for new applications for the next round of MVP grants um so I'm going to encourage us to EXA you know to really look at the resources that they have there some of them will apply to some of the stuff that we might be thinking of others not but it's pretty um pretty good resource Tracy yes um so two things last meeting um Bob Douglas who Unfortunately they rescheduled the Conservation Commission meeting and moved it to tonight which is what we were trying to avoid in the first place but he's applied for several um MVP grants and he said that he would be willing to like talk us through the process that he's been through and and kind of you know his experience and how that works in addition and Eric maybe this is something that you can jump on a couple lwac meetings ago I feel like it was like April or May um Dave Green said that he was going to send all of us the MVP Grand application he said he had it at work and he would get it to us um so if you wouldn't mind reminding him of that because it would be nice to see the MVP grant that the town applied for I know they didn't get it but at least we can see one it would just even that would be nice to familiarize ourselves with what it what it looks like what it is can I just jump in and say that we we we have actually just just like last week in a meeting received an MVP Grant and I think we've tried maybe three years before this so we've actually got a grant for I think and don't get me don't quote me on this I'm in Pennsylvania my bra's not all connected here but I not in front of my not at my desk but I believe that um I believe the grant was for $225,000 maybe $250 for um solar panels on the new library and um a pickup an electric pickup truck which will act as a backup for the um for the for the backup battery source for the new library so it's hard I guess the takeaway from that to me is a it's hard to get those grants and B we just got one so I'm not sure what that's going to mean for the future I have no idea but I just I thought I'd mention that that's good Mark I see your your hand is up let me just say I don't you know I'm a little bit more incremental kind of in my approach to these things so so it feels to me like sure the MVP program is a great resource it's definitely not the only resource and correct to just assume that we're going to jump on this MVP Grant well we don't even know what the projects are that we might want funding for and what we might apply for so so I'm put the breakes on a little bit to go let's get into the weeds with what these projects are that we might want to recommend to the select board also we can't act independently of the select board on this right we make a recommendation to them so that's what I'm hoping for and we have the MVP resource out there and we should learn about it but feels like there are other steps um Mark I believe MP grants are on the website already on the town website already that's great so if you go to the town administrators page I believe you'll see them there that's great okay so now into the meat of things uh I am hoping that we'll have a good discussion about what our impressions are of what furog has recommended um I did a summary of their findings that is just a little bit more actually a lot more compressed just hoping that that could help us to get an eyeball on well what are their findings when it comes to uh they have divided it into structural best management practices okay but let's just call it structural um projects non-structural projects and educational projects and I have that summary which I could screen share if it's useful or we could just share Impressions or things that jumped out to us or um I'm not sure what you think would be the most productive yes um I I'm just wondering is this the new and latest burog report or is there one that we just haven't seen yet yeah there still is one that D is looking at um from what I've heard from Mark and he's here so he can chime in it didn't sound like there were big big differences in in what D was looking at but we do have to be aware that what we're looking at and and Reporting on is still in a draft form so what's useful now you know I could put that that uh summary up there or we could just talk about General Impressions um I see Tracy has her hand up yeah so I'm looking at the summary that you put together which is findings areas with issues to be addressed Pages 43 to 48 um and then there also was at the last meeting we talked about looking at sites four and six so the these are different right the summary is well incorporates locks P locks Pond well there is some locks pond in here and I think there was some oh there's Wendell road too but there's also uh Lake Way Association own road so I guess maybe we should pick where we want to focus in which place or something well that's kind of what the reason for the summary was in that um I don't know that we're ready to pick where we want to focus yet because even though talked about Wendel Road last time the the kinds of things that were recommended for Wendel Road were so minimal um and I wondered whether there was it was substantial enough but I just meant focusing in on your summary or focusing in on the other two sites that you want us to look at just as a starting point for tonight I don't mean like yeah yeah I'm not sure Jim you have an idea oh okay um well I did walk wendle road and then the locks Pond Road from Lake View up to um the boat launch so that I'm ready to talk about those and with regard to both their suggestions and the current state which um some of the reviews especially the older review that said things were done or not done or wasn't quite current I guess um but you know the if I could just sort of you you know from the the result of the walk and and um that start with wle road because wendle road is an actually pretty good shape um I think it's still in good shape because of the um it being serving as a detour in that period um the one there are a couple points where burms could be added to keep runoff from heading downhill it would be you know useful to figure out if something could be done at The Laurels to get the water from starting downhill um that would be right near the road the other thing and I think a major thing was Laurel streets which I don't know who owns that road if it's a town Watson Watson Straits it depends on what map you look at that um yes the sign on the road says watson Straits but Google other Maps call it Laurel Straits so that um I did go there I walked a couple hundred feet down the road um and from that road you can easily at many places see the lake it is that close and it just in many places it sits just above uh Shore dry um and just one instance is when you first turn down we'll call it Watson Straits um there's an erosion Gully that's probably 8 to 10 inches deep and a foot and a half two feet wide just right in the middle heading down that road to the to the Lower Side to head down the hill and that's kind of interesting because there's a culvert that's on the road that's 20 feet before that turnoff and it may that that culbert is feeding that erosion or don't know exactly what's going on it's just and I did walk down there are a couple places where burms would prevent things from heading downhill um but I'm claim no expertise in what needs to be done and I didn't walk all the way to the end because it's it I'm under the impression that some of the wle road properties have uh Watson Straits as their end of the property line so that it was you know going by people's property that I didn't feel comfortable with but I think it's a big area for us to look at I think it would solve some of the problems that come up on shore drive by if we could just cut how much water comes off of that and heads towards Shore it would you know change some of the requests we have for what gets done on Shor drve although it wouldn't solve all of them um Stephen has his hand up yes I do hi so if the water doesn't get off of wend road where am I going to put it because it needs to go somewhere and the more water that sits on dirt roads the more potholes we get the more ruding we get and then and I have very unhappy residents uh the guy respond you're right that there are a couple places and I skipped over them where burn where holes can be cut for runoff to go downhill and dis disperse it um that way rather than having it go down just a few loc locations the part that's going down Watson Straits is a problem the parts that going down Windle or The Laurels is another problem and I I think there are a couple places where a cut um where water could head off the road um are possible so yes you're right that you just can't keep the water on the road so the the idea the best idea is to really not have any BMS and to get the water to just go off the road all the way along because then you're not getting any um like streams you're getting it to run off gently everywhere but once you focus it then that's where you get that watts and Straits thing and everywhere else that we have the water run off so it's really better to have it a widespread area instead of focusing it well I would agree other than the there are uphills and downhills so that at the bottom of those areas it does concentrate that's where I was thinking of putting in those those cuts Let It Go from the low areas on the road um before I Tracy let me Stephen I have a clarification question just so I understand so so what you're saying is that I guess it's more like a a ditch that runs parallel to the road that you think is the best method for dealing with and some places where you enable water to get off the road and down the hill there not there's lots of areas there where people aren't living and we could use it as places for water to get off the road do we know who owns this property do we have to find out who owns this property yeah I I think and again just to emphasize that the Watson Straits is a big problem if you take a walk down there you it there's a lot of erosion Tracy you know about this Watson Straits yeah it's right up behind my house um my my my property but buts Watson Street so couple of things with Watson streets things some things that I've wondered about and some things I wanted to ask Steve about because you maintain Wendell so Watson Street streets is a road that is owned by Lake W Association but maintenance of it has been abandoned they believe back in 2008 before my time but I had found some paperwork that showed that that road was abandoned so it's not maintained um so it kind of you know in some ways acts like a BL off a window because you know the top of it is just a big wide Road and and there's no you know there's nothing to stop the water um I also just as somebody who lives up there whose literal property dresses Watson Straits and it's not maintained anymore so that that's that's an issue too um I know also that Dave Brooks up the road here bought property up there my in is with a distinct intention of making sure Watson Strait stays accessible um because I mean I've had thoughts about like let's just turn Watson Straits into a forest let's plant some trees you know that that would be like ideal if we could if we could you know do that but I think we have to look into some legalities around those those two issues the guy who bought property there because there's electrical up there it's weird you walk down the road if you went further down James you would would have seen that there's an electric pole just like seaming in the middle of the trees it's weird with a box on it um I had problems you know my septic system failed the first year I lived here because of all the water coming off of up there uh and um you know I had to get you know I get a lot of work done to get that fixed uh the other question that I have Steve it would be super helpful if you knew this there is an intermittent stream that comes down from up there and it comes down I'm at 82 so Steve you know where my house is you know where Branda lives 550 52 53 that like her house is the exact same house as mine same shape but it's like a greenish house uh who's it next door to it's on the corner of of Pine and Shore yeah across the street on the on the on the opposite side of the road and the drinage ditch last year was like a waterfall coming down from that property did you see this Steve no you haven't noticed it okay but there's there's an intermittent stream that's coming from it's got across Wendell or it's under Wendell it might be an underground stream and but um the Conservation Commission was pretty positive that it I think actually they are positive it's an intermittent stream and I think they might have been told that by furog I can find out for sure that they had determined that it wasn't storm water coming down from behind Brenda's house but it was an intermittent stream which has different you can't mitigate it like you do storm water it because it's a stream it requires like conservation stuff it's it's just more complex um I just I feel like that's a key part to the Shore Drive issues um it's what causes the problems on Pine Drive and then lots of silt going into the lake uh in in two directions down Pine Drive and down Shore um and then you know in in culverts that go into the into the lake so um Steve have you seen any major water through the spring um up there around that area coming which would be I don't think Watson I I don't think that would be Watson Straits I think that would be further going towards the corner by um you know going towards uh the camp there we have one Culvert just south of Watson Straits and we have one maybe 100 feet north of it but that the one that's north of it is it's dry 90 something perc of the time and we don't have anything else to the corner so it's not coming from the road well it sounds like if we're identifying projects this is what I'm hearing tell me if I'm wrong if for identifying projects this issue on Watson Straits is a high priority and water that's coming from Wendel Road Down The Laurels continues to be a high priority and we could put those two projects on our list of things that we would approach you know as a primary recommendation do that summarize what I've been hearing can can I ask a question um that Jim mentioned he said something about a I don't know if it's one of the same culs that Steve was just talking about but um he said something about 20 20 feet above where there's a large erosion site on Watson's there's the Culvert would is is that Culvert open or is it uh plugged could do we know the condition of that Culvert okay it's it's 20 feet south of the Watson Street's entrance it's it's right there it's one of one of the ones that was referred to and I took a look at it and you know didn't crawl down and look all the way through but that it was open on both ends okay so that and um and it appears active okay good I'm going to suggest that that's the water that's being coming through to um behind up behind Brenda and I and I remember Jennifer you may remember back too that might have been that cover that remember the guy Paul that lived on that in that green house yeah I think that that I think that might be all in the same area I think there might be a culvert and an intermittent stream because I'm telling you what the water that comes down there my daughter had a friend visiting from Boston area he was taking pictures of it and sending it to his family he's like Rebecca has a waterfall on her street and it's it's what it would look like it looks like a waterfall at certain times of the year granted he lives in the city but so this is what I've been this is what sort of got me thinking in the very beginning this is a system right it's a system that involves things that happened at the top of the hill Wendel Road and probably even above wendle Road and then a system that goes all the way down to the lake so if we approach it that way you know that's a perfect example of how public and private partnership which is the two or now we have a private owner perhaps whatever the parties are that would be necessary to um address this whole system and what its impact is could be a a big recommendation of this task force to the select board for example um we can't troubleshoot all the solutions you know in this meeting necessarily but I'm thinking that identifying the major projects is the first task um Jim okay that I just like to now talk about the the locks Pond Side yeah before we move on so someone mentioned oh things about the intermittent stream and understanding water one one recommendation that comes up a lot in the furog report is the need for an engineering study and I keep like bristling at that suggestion because and I'm not saying I'm against it I don't even know about it all I know is we have so many studies and they're super expensive and can we make interventions with Steve's expertise with Bob's expertise with other Jim's expertise all of our expertise that could get a better Bang from our buck or is that silly because we really need the input of an engineer to make those determinations so I know Tom had a hand up Eric's hand just went up Jim I think your hand is up from before well I'd like to get back to it yeah all right so you'll be I'll take it down right now well we'll do Tom Tom and Eric and then Jim Jim can you please let me know did you walk Wendell all the way from the top at the corner with lock Pond or how far down you said you walked down Wendell I walked down window I took the conservation Trail over to where it intersects window where there's a big kind of sharp turn uh Ames Haven or ases I I guess my point was only um it's it's near there it's conservation Ro path there's a path that goes from the boat launch all the way to Wendell um it's just a trail right right right so you didn't walk up like the super steep part of wend no I didn't take that turn I just Ro and and headed north okay because it was just interesting to me in the report that it didn't seem to mention much about that portion of Wendell except for the possible spring about 800 feet north of uh Freeman Road um is it true that Wendell doesn't really seem to be posing a problem to the wyola Watershed until closer to the lels and down by Watson streets or um are there oh okay and I thought Steve so Steve was going to be my followup question to Jim whether um that's kind of where the problem Zone begins um I just wanted to clarify that for myself thanks no but I mean I have walked that section of road from um the from window leaving lock spond okay um and there's a lot of water that flows through there is pretty well controlled but again that um with pushouts and little reten areas and the the town's doing I think a good job there um but at the bottom of where I'm talking about the conservation Trail coming in um there if you go in a few hundred feet there's a stream that does feed into um Lake wyola right right yeah that long straight stretch of goes to Southbrook I think yeah yeah um so we have Eric and then Stephen so my quick question would just be I mean it seems we have to sort of Define what our goals are that is to say what are our goals are our goals to have no no water coming off the town roads going into the lake or to have that done in a fashion that doesn't bother people or I mean what what are the what are we shooting for here and it seems to me that that might answer the question was not engineering study or I mean the trouble is water runs downhill so I mean what are you going to what are you going to do it's going to it's going to keep going and how do we control it I think that's the question I mean is the is a question doesn't obviously doesn't go into people's backyards or whatever but can it not go into the lake I mean for example I mean are we saying it can't do that I'm just raising the general question of what do we do with it I think I'll just hop in um no we can't keep all water out of the lake my my sense of some of the ways that it was discussed in the furog report which I agree with is whatever we can do to reduce the sedimentation that goes into the lake right so water is going to flow but there are things that can be done that um address the amount of sediment that's being added to the lake as a result of that flow um Tracy's hand and then Jim's yes so yeah you're you're you're absolutely right Eric water runs downhill and it's going to go trying to get to the lake it's it's its goal um the what what what we need to do to keep it from impacting people's properties because I think it's a two-fold thing here too we're we're talking about damage to people's properties as well as sediment in the lake and if you in the furog report they have all kinds of different ways in which that can happen there's retention basement basins there's um there's water bars that that that dis I ate the water instead of it being concentrated in one area it makes it go off the road in more areas so there's less concentration um and flows o into um uh you Wetland Gardens or forested areas where it will perk slowly as opposed to rushing um permeable ground you don't want to have you know asphalt driveways are something that you know aren't great when you've got water flow um so there's there ways that those things can be done but then the engineering piece comes in because they can they can get into those finer details of like I don't I I don't even have the terms but like flow rates and and and and and pitches of of the road and how many inches to to raise the road and how high the profile should be and which way it should be pitched left or right um drainage ditches that that's then it gets there's when the engineers come in because we could go out there with our shovels and picks and be like oh well let's you know do this or that and then all of a sudden we realize well we just fix this over here and now we got a problem over there [Music] so Jim okay um no the the water does need to get into the lake um I just want it to get to the lake slower so that if you if it does percolate into the ground and it's still gets into the lake um it's just not going to carry the sediments and so that's the way I've been thinking about it some way uh to slow the water down so the sediments don't car carry it into the lake uh because we want the water in the lake or else we don't have a lake Stephen to answer Tom's question what happens on Wendell starting at my house is that the water from my house to what I would used I I refer still as paty's house the one on the very bottom of the hill so everything from my house to paty's the water heads East down towards the through the woods to the beaver ponds and then enters Southbrook and then it goes to Lake wyola where when you get from Pais to the Pinebrook intersection all the water heads West towards the lake thank you that that helps me visualize it so okay so we'll hold off on I don't think we know enough now to say we want an engineering study we don't want an engineering study or for what purpose or um but I would like to hear Jim's feedback on locks Pond Road I'd also like to to look at all the different things that were found around Lake wyola Association roads and we can't go on forever and it's 8:25 so let's um do those two things and see where we stand so what about locks Pawn Road Jim okay um the reports are very good of of what they're talking about that there's in I think both reports um refer to the west side of lock Pond Road or the uphill side um and that the trench on the uphill side that runs along the road is very shallow and not lined and that I think was in both reports saying that was an issue and walking it today yes it's very shallow uh that trench in some cases You could argue it no longer really exists um so that if and we have to talk about this but if one goal um or a Target would be to try to get the water into the stream rather than into the lake the the trench on the West Side might help move more water into the stream now we have to that's a conservation committee question probably of adding water like that into um the mill uh River there um but there there several other issues because there are a number of culverts that carry water from the uphill side down into the association side and then just deposit the water at the top of the hill um on on the association side of the road and um there's one case oh is just south of Randall Road there's a culvert that carries water in and if you go to the downhill side of the Calvert the conservation property kind of going down to the boat launch um there are signs of erosion coming out of that Cal that there's bare rocks there's no set deposits there um it may have been the storm last week that just scoured everything and a few light rains will put some sediment back in it um but it goes into the conservation area it gets dispersed and and um but provides an example there are other culverts that um you sue Hoy has done a tremendous job of replicating the Nile Delta uh that the water comes in through the the cul and then she has it dispersing into a dozen different channels go down the hill by her house that that um and she's done that by herself but then the water hits King Road and that's the area that we don't maintain anymore because all the water coming through there um so that you know again in detail there's there's a lot to talk about but I'll just leave it there that if there could be deeper trenches on the west side of locks Pond Road to hold water in there and to carry it and to find out if it carrying it towards the The Mill River Sawmill River um that would solve a lot of problems there would be much less water headed towards the lake if that were the case um just a little foot note and there are several driveways that driveways that come in from the west side and given the sand and PE gravel deposited on the road I'd suggest that they're just washing onto the road that it's not making in any water control going on there and that's the folks that have the driveways they don't seem to be diverting water into the trenches next to the road very much thank you Jim for walking both both locations at Stephen yeah so if you're at Great Pines and heading south up Lo Pond there are four culverts that all have intermittent to regular streams running under them and they when that Hill is full of water that's when you find the Scout when it rains an inch and a half or two inches or more that Culvert you're talking about it is rushing yeah that one I mean there's nothing I can do unless you want me to dump crap loads of rip wrap in there that that one it doesn't happen often but it when it runs it runs and you're incorrect about the two driveways across from great Pines they were both graded and water barred in the last two days because I drove by there today um and as far as running the water down making that ditch deeper along the west side all the way down to the mil River I've talked to a former Conservation Commission member about this a number of times because that was my as soon as the cover went in and the Mas put in that big giant rip wrap down on on the W the outlet side my immediate thought was hey let's run our water down through there instead of into the lake but I've been told because of King Road and where it goes across by the A-frame those are Wetlands I can't stop the water from going through there even though the water runs six inches from the A-frame I can't stop the water from go it has to go that way I can I can try and encourage it a little bit to go towards the M River but I can't make it stop going under the road yeah no I I appreciate all the problems you're facing and then the one right across some great Pines where those two driveways DP I would love to tie that whole thing together except that there's a black top driveway that I can't put a cul under because there's not and that's the one that has the stream or the spring that feeds and that's the one that ends up with Sue yeah but I I can't put a covert under that driveway unless okay no you know I don't I just was walking it today looking at it so you know much better what the problems are there um but it does when the by the A-frame when it gets down to Lake Road that's when another problem occurs because all of that it may be an intermittent stream but somehow it has to get across Lake Road and and I believe there's that yeah now it's filling that New Foundation right up yeah yes that's they have a problem Trac oh sorry Tracy did you have a comment well I just wanted to make a comment on the top of great Pines so I know across the street the guy there he put in a new cul we we we made that ditch bigger I think this was like back 2020 maybe 2019 Steve if you remember um and one of the issues and I don't know if it can be the the road the road pitches towards great Pines it pitches that way rather than we can't we can't change I just that's I'm just I'm I'm not saying you can change it I'm just saying that that's an that's an issue so and it and it's something that I it can't be because I've talked to Steve about this it can't be solved by changing the pitch of the road there because that's been that's been an idea that you know Ste Steve's reaction was because he's been asked to do this and know and it's been been being asked for since I've lived here um it can't be done so something different has to be done at the top of great Pines because clearly great Pines down to Lake that whole thing is you know and then going down to Bob's property um what they have the water bars have helped tremendously on great Pines and they they got some pretty deep water bars those are and you know I I have friends over there and they say that they're really working great and because they made them so deep they're holding up and Steve has been awesome and not compl complaining about plowing there going over the water bars because you know it's probably a little weird um they're in The Laurels too they also have diverted the water but there's just such a small amount of land there on the left hand side of great Pines for water to go into which kind of kills the beginning of King King Road you we we've actually made it it's not passable anymore we put a uh there's a sign up that says that it's you can't drive down it anymore so I'm wondering if that end of King Road has some more possibilities for usage for for for water um because we blocked it off it doesn't seem to bother anybody in terms of people who live there so um I'm wondering about that and also that is a great place for a either retention Pond uh which would be on private property we'd have to ask for permission and or it or a water garden but I think a water garden is probably not enough with the amount of water and Steve is that also the spot you're talking about in terms of diverting into the mill river which you can't do is that where you're speaking of right there at the top of great Pines before King it's a little bit further down it's where that black top driveway is that I can't I'll walk down there and look I'm not picturing it it's the one that it has the arborite it's on the west side it has arbite hedge and it used to have the two white amp post that are now gone okay I can't I can't CU if I could cut that driveway and put in a culvert then the water could go if the Conservation Commission would be for it we could make the water run all the way down past Morse Hill both driveways and go through that rip wrap into the M River and skip the lake all be awesome that would be I think awesome that's that's what was saying that I talked to a former Conservation Commission member and those two intermittent streams can't be stopped the one that runs yeah there's weird rules the one that runs to Deb widers and the one that runs to the A-frame I can't stop them from going through those coverts okay so again I'm just gonna hop in again when they have a catch 22 like that right where so we have all water and it's having a conservation impact on lake wyola and other places but we can't divert something because there's a wetland does anyone know whether the Conservation Commission has Provisions for you know outside of the regular regulations mitigating you know approaches or are you just like that's it the door is shut you can't there's no way to discuss discuss it that's what we have Bob Douglas for so we had Jim Tom and then Eric with their hands up can't hear you Jim there forgot to put my hand down sorry oh I see okay Tom um two things I was only going to say one thing but what you just asked I believe but Bob will be able to confirm that the Conservation Commission might have some sort of approval Authority for cases for special cases um and somebody I forget who just talked about the portion of King Road that is not maintained anymore and I did find it here in the report and I'm sorry if somebody already said this and I didn't catch it but they do mention in the furog report that that particular site could be considered as an area for a multi- BMP treatment train with the only caveat that there are some private um land owners who would have to give consent beyond the lwa for that particular Little Portion um but it it is an identified area already about where there could be some concentrated effort that's under the um it's on page 58 of the report where they talk about that area okay Eric where's there well it sounds to me like um here I am it sounds to me like um we we have to ask the Conservation Commission again very directly here's the plan ABCD can we do that and if we can't what can we do and right it doesn't seem to me that that's that's been done maybe I'm wrong but I don't it doesn't seem to me it's been done and it seems like a great plan if it works that's right Stephen yeah so Eric I I have not brought this up to the the current um concom I I've only been speaking to someone who's a former member I have I haven't formally asked the Conservation Commission if I could do that right and the other the other thing is that if I own that house at the bottom of King Road where we're talking about my house is in the a bowl at the bottom why do I want you bringing all that water down to my house I mean it's just one house on that section because I I have to sand it every time there's a storm and it sits right at the bottom of the bowl I don't want water running through my house I don't think it would be enough just to bring the water down there yeah I think something else has to happen to it crazy those folks have actually been very kind and they gave permission for that water buer to P to to turn the water into that area where they I don't know if the if the um rain Garden has been really maintained uh because you got to get the silt out you know you put plants in that can handle silt and can handle a lot of water but they it does need to be cleaned out periodically and that's something that Lake W Association I don't know if they're doing that over there for them because it does seem to me that if we are going to be asking residents to do things like this then Lake o Association is going to have to take responsibility for for maintaining it because that that's you know adding that added extra thing but I think a retention Bas in there I mean I I'm referring to being on the road literally like what I was speaking about with with Watson Straits like trying to turn that into a forest turning King Road that end of King Road which belongs to the lake wild Association into a a large retention Pond there's there's pretty good you know it's it's it's a 22 foot wide road right now it's got you know stuff growing all over but it's it's a good you know and it and it goes in you know it's it's pretty it's pretty deep into the you know I think it's like kind of behind that house but I mean again that would require definitely an engineer because we would want to be sure we didn't screw it up and then have these people want to sue it you know we would have to be sure it was tight but it's a spot that's that belongs to Lake wyola Association so that Road's 22 feet wide how it it's barely supposed to be it is about 10 and a half feet wide when I back down that thing in the dark in the winter time when it's icy I I barely get in and out of there there's no 22 feet anywhere supposed to be so so if we went to the middle of the road and we went 11 feet out to either side that is that is Lake wola property it doesn't mean that stuff hasn't grown on it or somebody's tried to encroach on it th those there's lots of problems like that around here Steve but based on the map it's 22 feet wide okay Jim I just wanted to better locate the retention P so that on this is south of King Road that that the area that kind of is wet and Mucky now I'm really bad with like those kind of directions I do left you're going down great Pines on the left hand side that that side yes it used to be a road that went all the way through but we've you notice there's a sign on the end of it that says no ACC it says something that didn't it on it it used to be but because so much water was going in there it just it couldn't couldn't be maintained so I think it was in 2019 we made a decision as a board to just NX it and put a you know there's like something across the road and um a sign that says no access and so that is Lake wyola Association property that's just not a road anymore well the road goes the road the part that's closed right there's from that side there's one house on that road the side and then across from that uh Gully is other houses so that that you can't get to from great Pines yeah um it it does drain down so that uh I don't know that it's a great retention Pond site um but we might in again with the conservation Committee of per permission might be able to encourage more water to get into that drainage yeah and furog is saying a multi like multiple ways in that section so I interpreted that as being that that they may be considering a retention Pond is being one of those a rain Garden's already there but like what else do they mean so a retention Pond may be I I see it as a possibility but I'm not an engineer so okay so I'm gonna suggest that we we move on a little bit it's quarter to nine and we take so so what I'm ident identifying as two different systems one is the system of Wendell Road Watson Straits and The Laurels another is this system of locks Pond and King and great Pines and that we focus on these two as and there you know the water is maybe begins up from town owned roads but then it flows over or through or under and then over these Lake Wild roads and properties which make their own contribution to it right so I think furog has identified that the materials that Lake wyola Association is using the sand and gravel is you know really just washing straight into the lake it's identifying choices that individual homeowners have made with their driveways and swales and burms that aren't helping matters so it's these systems have like four or five different solutions within each system and some of them are going to involve the Lake wyola Association some will involve private homeowners some will involve the town some are are are maintenance issues ongoing maintenance I think that fog said that there are multiple outfalls along Lake wyola um that are eroded and that there are no catch basins pipes swes they're largely absent so you know there are uh we're need to deal with the water as it flows off these town roads and then what are going to happen on the Lake wyola Association properties and Roads that are going to continue to reduce this sediment and as Jim said Slow everything down so I think that from my reading of it as we even said last week although we've we've gotten into the details a little bit more that we start to treat these two systems as our main focus and then start to identify the very specific things within those systems that are going to involve all these parties right um Highway Department Conservation Commission Lake wild Association individual homeowners and then start to see what how that all hangs together um for a proposal does that make sense [Music] Eric um I think it makes a lot of sense I would only suggest and I what I would like to do personally is love we just had a day when we actually walked this these properties I mean um I think I at least for me and I suspect for other people too some of it seems a little bit vague to people about what we're talking about and I think just to walk as a committee to walk around these properties be very helpful that's all but I think your idea is great yeah yeah that's a good idea I have that which we'll address before we adjourn Tracy yeah I I completely agree with that I I I you know we're we're here talking about all this stuff that we all have seen and we live near and yeah Eric and it's like what so I when you see it you it's very helpful when I did that the first time um with so this is just looking ahead I know but we're talking about the fact that we individual homeowners and furog does mention this in the report that you know clearly permission has to be given by everybody I think it's super important I talked to a conservation commerci uh Conservation Commission person asking about site visits um you a former person and you know how does that work and so forth I feel that the approach to homeowners like we might we might identify in our own minds what would be nice if there was a Swale here or you know whatever a water bar here that would be helpful um I think that when we um I think when we go through the walkth through we have to be very cautious and be clear to anybody who might come walking out the road what are you guys doing looking at my property this and that if for walk that we're just we're just analyzing the water flow um and then I this is where I think it's really important that professionals get involved because when we're going to get to a point where we're gonna because eventually the water has to get to the lake it's some we're going to be able to off flow before it gets to the lake and the more we can do that the better better because then the less private homeowners we have to ask to do things but when we get to that part I think that really needs to be handled by professionals that can you know give a pitch to people like if we can do this and you know we we know we can make sure that your property's not going to be damaged and because it's going to be a tough sell to to to people I agree with that Jen yeah um can Steve he gave a a suggestion about putting a culvert underneath somebody's paved driveway and I'm trying to picture where that is can he reate what that looks like what area that is so um because that seemed to be a popular idea for a lot of people and but it obviously involves it's a problem because of a paved driveway but um would Steve mind restating that idea I didn't get all of it and I'm trying to picture it or is it too late so if you're if you're standing at the bank of mailboxes across from great Pines and you you walk North down the hill the next driveway you come to is a paved driveway and just south of that but closer to the mailboxes is where there's a spring that is running constantly and that goes under the road and dumps at is it suo is her house the one that has all the cool ditches and things it's right across from her house or very close to it and what road is she on she's on locks Pond but it's the it's the next if you start walking towards the lake on locks Pond if you start at the bank of mailboxes it's the next driveway on your left and it's paved thank you okay so I'm G to suggest that I'm G to try to write something up that codifies not minutes wise but codifies this discussion and identifies these two systems starting at the top meaning wendle Road or above it and going all the way down to Lake wyola owned roads Pine Drive Shore Drive um to the lake and do the same thing for this locks Pond system so that we're starting to assemble what begins to appear like two projects and then I'm going to suggest that we have our next meeting as a field trip if we can do that um and I don't know what you all think about that hi Bob hey there I just have one more thing to add to the Wendell roads side that it just dawned on me that I think we need to take a look at is that up wend from Wendell Road you know um not North and South thing here but like you know uphill the the wooded um if you're walking down wend Road from the corner by the uh uh Pine Brook Camp walking up wendle Road left hand side the woods up back there somewhere up back there uh there was clear cutting done it's my understanding that's one of the reasons why my septic system failed my next door neighbor had problems it went down that way so I just don't know from an engineering standpoint if that's something like we should look at because that could have created different Pathways for water or if it's not even issue anymore because it's all grown in I I don't know but I know that that was a major issue 10 years ago okay I'll put that in my little write up um Stephen that that one doesn't run anymore it hasn't run for probably five six s unless we get a 2inch rain that Logging Road is now it's dry that's good news um so how do youall feel about a field trip the next time we meet sure sounds good how do we manage that if we're starting at seven ring flashlights cell phones we' have to do on a Saturday day or or Sunday or something before the snowf Flies which is coming yeah right no hopefully next month is what I'm hoping could we do something after work say at like four o'clock sounds good and I meant during the work week would that be an option for people does that work for you Stephen that's fine too so an afternoon field trip would we do both locations on the same field trip or one one week and another the next time we meet do them both do them both okay well so so when is that when does that want to happen in September September if we I mean well it was a month in between our meetings last time and if we did that again it would be like September 12th I'll be out of town on the 5th uh sounds sounds good to me what time did you we say four o'clock that would be a little tight for me but the 13th is the Tuesday is better for me I don't know is Monday I will rearrange my schu schedule if I need to but um is Tuesday better than Monday for anybody I think when we arranged our meetings Thursday was the day that everybody could meet oh right okay that's how we came to Thursdays originally so would 4:30 make it better for you than 4 4:30 would make it better I can make it for 4:30 for sure can that work for people 4:30 again this is we're talking about the um 12th of September I may be in Chicago but that's my problem no that would be our loss yeah it' be nice if Jim was there uh let's see what about the fall as I said I'll be out of town on the 5th how about the 19th of September it's a two week trip I'm gonna see my grandson so okay well Jim you've actually seen but you mean the reason we've honed in in these places is because of you so I guess except that it' be nice to have you there showing us stuff but maybe um Steve I was meant to say Jim if I said Steve but Steve maybe do you think that you would be able to be a good guide for both of these areas for us he says yes all right so you want to go back to the 12th then September 12th which is a Thursday at 4:30 okay me will this be instead of uh or in addition to another meeting uh I guess we'll determine that after our field trip and see we yeah I get it and where are we going to meet which place idea where should we meet um I'm thinking about parking um yes yeah that's that's the only other so we could park at the association Hall and can I can open the hall if you want and we could meet there yeah then we can walk from there for that side and then we can hop in share cars and Drive Drive Great Pines in a couple of cars and drive people back yeah and we did that with the furog field trip we did something like that with them yeah that's a good idea yeah Charlene I don't know if we need to go inside the building because we're just like Gathering as a place to move from but of course if it's raining then we then we might want to do that if it's raining we'll just have a regular meeting yeah there's also a lot of parking at the Brightwater bog area at the top of the lur I don't know what would make the least amount of walking from our cars because that's on wendle road itself yeah just do do um I go I vote for the hall just because it's uh doesn't take away parking from people who might want to use the bog you know okay so we're going to meet at Lake W Association parking lot at 4:30 on the 12th and um um we'll take it from there is it good that's good all good okay and in and I will try to write something up that starts to localize these uh two systems that we want to focus our attention in on and going all the way down to the lake right so not just know Town owned Lake wild alone but treat them as a system okay it might be good if we told the Conservation Commission we were doing this too they don't have to go but they might want to go you know they might want to see it I mean yeah and just as you know what I mean just throw throw it out there here we are kind of thing well Bob's on the Conservation Commission there you go be there when when is their next meeting do you know um I think it's next week actually next Thursday well Beth reached out to me and she wanted to be um is is Beth the commissioner now like the head of the Conservation Commission she's the the chairperson yeah so she reached up wanting to stay in touch and informed so I can reach out to her and let her know about this and see if uh she yeah say Bob you'll be there but she might want to come too I'll reach out to her all right that's a good idea okay so then the only other thing we need to do is have a motion to adjourn our meeting oh I just had had one thing um uh as this will be a meeting um and there might be discussion and Del deliberation can you post it as a as a meeting I can is that I don't know that it seems like that should be fine but as an open meeting then anybody can come on you better post it yeah post it so I'll just post it as I would as I would normally right right yes okay it be I would post it as a field trip and I'll listen the meeting place and etc etc yep and that would give us the ability to uh deliberate decide things and come up with ideas that would be recorded in the minutes yep that's good Tracy that's what I was wondering is because I that was something that a conservation person said to me when they go on site visits they can't deliberate so there's certain question you there's only certain things you can say and I was just thinking like this field trip is gonna be really hard because we like we really can't discuss things but Bob just gave the solution we can no no you got you got general rule is post everything yeah you're right keep you seriously we you know I've known for for years as chair of different committees is like just post it then you're covered all right great that sounds good before we adjourn can I just make a motion if it's necessary I don't know if we have to call it a motion but are we going to kick the Harvard Massachusetts sedimentation controls to our next need meeting because I don't want to belor anything tonight that we don't have to yeah I have if this is an email that Bob sent to me with um a photograph of things that Harvard are doing or not I mean the town of Harvard and yeah we can kick that so when we get to approaches of how to address some of the issues in these locations is that okay with you Bob oh absolutely I just wanted it was just a res throw it out there yeah that's fine absolutely okay so motion to adjourn I make move do we have a second second okay do we all vote now everybody's got a vote okay so Bob hi hi Eric sure Tracy hi hi Char Charlene hi Jim hi Tom hi Jennifer I Stephen I Stephen's deliberating he's not sure he wants to adjourn okay thank you all I think we're we're in a good spot I'm feeling good about this night all good thank you everybody thank you I have to turn off the recording