good evening everyone if you can take your seats please if you could also silence your cell phones we'd appreciate that uh tonight is Tuesday February 20th it's a roally 700 p.m. uh the city commission uh stands adjourned not adjourned sorry we are here um Madame clerk if you could please call the role yes mayor Fernandez present Vice bonish here commission Leman president commissioner Cory president commissioner Cay here you have a quum if we can please stand for a brief moment of silence commissioner Leeman would you lead us on the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice thank you commissioner so uh colleagues uh I just want to quickly set the order of the day uh maybe depart from the agenda if I can read you how I'd like to take the items in sequence and if there's no objection we'll proceed in that fashion uh I'd like to move to adopt the minutes of February 26 or to be deferred so hold on mayor so yes sir those are to be deferred yes thank you okay yes I guess we don't have they were not in the package so okay perfect so I'd like to move to defer both the minutes and S second reading item seven uh as there were not some modifications I had asked for in the draft then I'd like to take up public remarks and then move to uh the presentation uh on the garage murals followed by the city manager city attorney's report take up the ca items move on to re6 on the traffic circles take up the first reading of the pension plan ordinance construction standards and then re5 and re4 surplus in uh three lots I believe a few lots and then the designation of the park in honor of the former mayor and then closing out with the parking presentation by Mr riverol and a discussion of possible uh Capital financing of projects does that seem reasonable to the board seems like you did okay so then without objection we will proceed in that fashion I'll hand my cliff notes to uh Madame vice mayor here so Madam clerk are there any uh add-on items on tonight's agenda not tonight okay great can I get a motion to uh defer uh the adoption of the minutes and uh item number seven I move the deferral on item number seven is there a second second so we have a motion by commissioner Corey to defer item seven and the adoption of the minutes and a second by commissioner leedman uh Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes mayor Fernandez yes Vice B yes commissioner Leeman yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner C yes both items I prer it thank you um if we can open up the floor for public remarks please and so we'll recognize first Donna Shelly please if you can come forward good evening hi good evening um thank you for letting a non-resident speak um I just here I'm here to support the park for Anna price I don't know what the appropriate time to speak about it is but right now it's fine thank you so I'm speaking about it now I'm definitely in support of the idea believe that Reverend Dr um price has done so much for the city of South Miami including the history of of South Miami and the the black neighborhood are very important to who people are uh Across the Nation but especially places here where we have things like walls that used to divide us so I fully I hope you will fully support the idea of having Dr Price's name on the Park thank you thank you for your testimony uh Mr Ward you're next I likewise I think you're making a wonderful Choice here in naming the area for former mayor price is there was ever anyone in the city that deserved to have an honor like that it's her she served this city well I enjoyed working with her over the years unfortunately we were on the opposite sides a lot tonight I I see there's a resolution on the agenda about South Miami Park and I feel that all of the improvements that you're putting into South Miami Park are well overdue but there's one and it's not on the agenda tonight but I thought I'd talk about it anyway there's one about artificial turf now when I was chair of the recreation committee for many years twice our committee voted down artificial turf and you can be sure regardless of what what other people tell you injuries are much higher on artificial tur Turf than they are on regular Turf and when regular Turf gets damaged it's not hard to replace but when artificial turf gets damaged it is not easy to fix and the other thing that really I get a kick out of reading is it's going to save so much money by having artificial turf it won't be necessary to do this and that well Mr manager I hope you'll require the City Recreation director to make sure that his budget is reduced by all that he's claiming it's going to serve now this is no direct pun at Clinton he does a great job but boy he's way off base on this one and I really believe it'd be nice that the city budget is deducted somewhere by all of this money they're supposed to save thank you thank you for your comments sir uh next up Mr Jose Suarez please come forward hi um I just want to talk about that uh there's going to be some traffic calming introduced or changes in the area um I wish that the city would reach out to the residents I personally walked through when I saw it um I saw it the last minute and it affects one of them affects our neighborhood the city recently put up four-way stop at 58th and 82nd and some people at least slowed down for the stop sign some actually stopped back in the days I mean we're talking years ago on 84th and 58th and 84th and 59th there used to be a four-way stop the city put the runabouts in there and now Now cars are going through there through the runabouts at 30 40 miles an hour I can on SUV I just tried it I could do almost 40 miles an hour in a large SUV so circles do not slow down we have a lot of schools so you have people coming in from 80th and cutting through our neighborhood in the morning and coming from the schools and cutting through and you have people that live on the south part that are not nearly affected as the people that are north of 80th and more so between 80th and 84th so I understand expanding the conversation to more than just a four people live on a corner but really take a survey of the people that live in the neighborhood and say what do you guys want and I just because I saw at the last minute I went to talk to our neighbors every single one that's been living in our neighborhood I didn't find a single one that want to remove the stop signs for a traffic struggle at 58th and 82nd every every single one said without a doubt a stop sign works better than a roundabout you know so uh uh please keep that uh in mind I wasn't planning to talk about this but um I normally would agree with Dick Ward on the turf I'm an ex soccer player Turf um natural Turf is significantly better than artificial turf however I have been to the park with um the head of parks that field is used so much there's just no way you're going to keep regular Turf anywhere in good shape there um I do uh recommend that you don't use a Turf that gets hot in the sun um because there's very few most of them you have to water during the day so thank you Jose just uh just to let you know that the item on the traffic circles is a public hearing item so we'll have a presentation from staff if you want to stick around and you offer some more comments in response to that presentation happy to hear I would love to do that and I think that traffic the traffic homes that would usually that we just put in they're working y may need to add them an 84th because I can tell you I walk a lot in the neighborhood and trying to walk across 84th the Speeders may want to think of some traffic comes on 84 thank you appreciate your comments uh gas sorry please come forward good evening good evening my name is marel Cenas and I live at 5890 Southwest 82 Street I also happened to be married to that one that just spoke and um but I'm speaking on a different issue this one yeah this issue has um unfortunately garnered more opposition than was necessary and it was I think created by the fact that it hit a lot of people by surprise I think what would be best even though I understand you been canvasing the neighborhoods and trying to talk to people about what this entails I myself don't want to say I was offended by this but I felt that I was not being considered as a rational human being that could make my own decisions once I know what we're talking about this did not tell me what we're going to be voting on and why we're doing it so in my humble humble opinion I think that there has to be better methods than sending these out first and then speaking about what it entails fa comment thank you if you want to just say it into the into the I don't know what the filtering was yeah I I can I can address that if you like it was it was sent to everyone who was registered to vote by mail so that's how we but Jose didn't get it okay I that I don't I don't know that's that was the catchment that was used so I don't know if he was a lot of folks have fallen off the vbm rules there's only 15% of oh because we had to re-register correct so if you didn't re-register you may not have gotten it for that reason if it may have gone to one per household as well but but but I know that the Target Universe was voters by mail so yeah but thank you for your comments okay next up we have James MCC good evening everybody good evening sir uh James MCC 621 Southwest secary terce um I'm here to um ask your support and approval of resolution number four and um one of my reasons is U that she's she's the only African-American uh that was mared and being the fact that she's a woman and her life and what she has done um is there on paper but much more she was a mentor to so many people for so many different reasons um um a member and Mentor uh to uh folks that are famous right now now um uh have been on the NFL uh platform and and Fields plan but what she does she um she's a symbol of strength and courage and wisdom here in this community and as we encourage me especially uh uh involvement of our community to focus on the history of this area uh this plays a very important part so um I heard your approval and everybody have a great night thank you sir thank you uh Mr Harris commissioner Harris please come forward good evening sir old man old man just want to say it's uh nice to be on this end I haven't been active but I I first of all I want to find out you had a meeting I happen to see at the very end regarding zoning changes have you made any zoning changes with the potential of selling City Hall sorry uh there I believe there was a I believe the map Mr C manager correct me if I'm wrong does have a um proposal to change it to was it Todd College he's asking about selling it not selling City Hall but the designation for City Hall I think it was the question well um the sale I I see um you know this I got the same flyer as everyone else yeah so let me let me address the flyer so that we can get some clarity so I've been trying to do it online as much as possible and and knocking on doors a weekend before last um the the the charter change that's being requested is being made with with the intent of giving us the option of entertaining something other than just a sale uh commissioner Harris as you probably recall the prior proposals that you all considered I think ended up in the basket of a possible sale because there was no option to do a lease of longer than 50 years since that's limited uh under our Charter and so what the the ballot language would authorize is for this property specifically us to allow us to be allowed to consider a lease of longer than 50 years so we can get better economic terms uh if we decided to do a project on this property but that's the extent of the change well I've been getting a lot of phone calls from residents thinking because I was once a commissioner and vice mayor I would know these things but I can only project what I had assumed so let me ask you um is there a chance you're going to allow zoning to go up to 10 stories I I think the zoning across the street is already at that height so I think it's probably as I indicated on a response on next door recently I think it's fair to assume that we're going to do something that's consistent with the surrounding zoning so 20 stories in or 30 stories no think that would be that would be in my opinion I don't want to speak for the rest of the board but for me that would be far beyond what I would want to authorize okay well I was just trying to get a handle on what is about to pop up here knowing full well that once something pops up here it's going to pop up next yeah it and it was and and as you know commissioner this is a a series of things that have to happen we've started a solicitation process which is currently the subject of an advertisement uh to to to invite possible development Partners on a request for qualifications basis not proposal focused uh depending on on what happens with the ballot question we can then entertain proposals for you know a long-term lease or sale depending on whatever option people want to but that will be a public process subject to public hearings so that would be public vote on public having input as correct yes so we're going to have a public solicitation process so that's not even started most excellent and secondly or thirdly and fourthly I certainly want to support Anna price Park which I think will be absolutely wonderful and certainly well deserved so that is very good my pleasure great thank you for your comments sir we appreciate them gotta go I got a phone call okay next up I have uh Donna Bernie please come forward good evening good evening I'm also here to support the resolution P4 in the nameing of the park for L Dr Anna price uh even though I don't live in your area but I'm familiar with all of her community service work and I feel that what she's done and what I know of her to do deserves uh this recognition so thank you for your time thank you for your words uh next up Mr Jerry Proctor please good evening uh Mr Mayor Commissioners Jerry proor 8235 Southwest 60th Court um with the help of many of you you and the administration and staff uh Madison Square became a reality um I was pleased to have a role in Madison Square and I'm here to tell you that the first person I went to see was Dr Price and without her encouragement just like she encourages and counsels James MC and many others uh she encouraged and counseled me and my client and our team and I can't tell you um how supportive she was some of you may remember I'm here to support your item in her honor this evening uh she's been a great friend to me and a great Ambassador for the city thank you thank you sir for your comments uh miss an fiser you recognized thank you very much mayor and thank you for inviting me to come to this meeting appreciate it um I have more I think a lot of people in this city have more questions than they do have answers right now about the referendum question and I really think that we need a town hall if at all possible uh so that all of you can address questions and people can ask questions freely and there can be some back and forth conversation more than we can have in this kind of time frame M fer just to that point just uh for the benefit of anyone watching I've been approached by uh former mayor Stoddard with the same idea and Marisha L and I had you know tely for myself offered to meet with an a town hall setting on March 4th so as to give people an opportunity to speak about the referendum question a couple weeks in advance of the actual date of voting I'll if if my colleagues are meable I'll just reach out to the clerk and make that a sunshine meeting so we can all participate if we're free and if there's nothing scheduled that evening we can do it here at City Hall do you think that makes sense you'll be okay that would be wonderful and I noticed the clock was still ticking while you were no we'll give you some time back it's fine okay I I won't take too much um uh really what I I wanted to say about the uh one thing about the mailers that I noticed is that there is a piece that is supporting the mailer and from what I know a Pac uh political action committee has to have um like registration within the city and the county and I was told that a PC does not so I was wondering why the PC was used I have a couple of friends who checked to see if uh the PC was registered with the city because we know from previous um situations in the city that it was supposed it is supposed to be if it is a PC I mean a p excuse me a Pac supposed to be registered in the city so also uh there are people who are talking to me and would like to know who is contributing money to this PC uh I think I have some friends who are investigating that so maybe we'll know something sometime soon the public I'm talking about uh I would like to know and I think also there should been some disclosure on those mail outs that we there's going to be a tradeoff uh we're not going to get all the benefits that are listed there without giving up uh our ver our Standalone unique iconic City Hall property now I'm not saying that I'm against doing a new facility here personally I would love that because I'm not a fan of um mid-century modern architecture to tell you the truth even though I live in one of those homes I don't really it's not my favorite let me put it that way um but there are ways to create funding for that that would not be a burden on the taxpayers if you I've looked quite some time ago with the city of s of Homestead how they did an incredible iconic City Hall and um I called the office and I spoke to someone there and they had several different ways of getting funding and they were very successful and it wasn't a burden on the taxpayers so they're very open to giving information and you could if you wanted to contact Homestead and get some information about that I I would and also one other thing to consider and then I I'll have my I would have my say um uh well I'm sorry I'm just going to I'm GNA save that maybe for the town hall but we definitely need more conversation on this so thank you very much if we have the town hall hall right here that'll be fabulous thank you very much and miss Fisher just for your benefit and the benefit of the public the political committee is a political Committee of I'm the chairman of so there's no should be no mystery about it it's the same political committee that I used during my campaign uh it's registered of the state it should be registered the clerk was registered when we opened it uh in 2022 I'm having a hard time remembering and so um and if you have any questions about contributions you can find all that information available online through the the state's division of Elections I'm happy to send you the link uh it's not a mystery but okay okay okay that's great can I say one more little thing of course you can okay I know that this commission already approved of 32 story zoning 32 stories in height for the Sunset Place renovation and my own thought on that is that if this commission the majority or the super majority of this commission uh voted uh to do that to approve of that then I don't see why what's going to stop this commission for putting any number it could be 50 stories it could be a hundred stories on this property maybe not you mayor because I remember you said you want to keep the city at human scale when you were running for office um and I think you're a man of your word and I think that um you know you're very upfront with us about various things but I do know that the rest of this commission will definitely go for however many stories that the new M fish I just say the following I think the best evidence of what the intent is we just had a two and a half hour workshop on zoning um what was being discussed there in terms of designation for this site and for most of the Town Center was base zoning of eight stories with the ability to bonus up to six stories so maybe 14 so I think we're going to be anywhere near the 40 50 story even the 32 stories that the majority of this commission you know supported in that in that one project it's 10 acres so I think you know just again I don't I think the record speaks for itself I think encourage you if you didn't have a chance I know if the video is recorded and available online Madam clerk you may want to just make if we can post that so people can see what we were discussing about and it's not intended to be a mystery but I think very clearly the documents show eight stories of zoning with the ability to bonus to a maximum of six more if you if you decide to do provide certain public benefits so I think that's realistically as I shared on the next door post that was a subject of discussion around this project where we're going to land the plane on on height for this project okay okay I'm sorry sorry I couldn't make it to that no it's fine it's a it's it was it's been a long day for us I know it's a lot to ask people to watch all that but we'll make sure the clerk puts a link to that workshop online so if you want to watch portions of it or all of it and we do have documents available maybe we should have the studies if we can also work with our consultant to post those uh so that you can actually see the material that we're using to make some of the decisions okay thank you thank you ma'am okay any further anyone else that's registered for public comment here in the chamber or anyone else who like to speak on an item Madam please come forward Le only good to see you no ma'am please come up you can sign out you can sign the form later good afternoon good evening is Leon Haron I'm a South Miami resident and I'm here to support um the item that um names uh celebrates our wonderful uh former mayor and names are Park after her so I I it would be an honor for me my family my children to have a park named after this incredible woman who still continues to blaze incredible Trails not just in South Miami but in our community thank you thank you and good to see you again okay uh Madam Clark is there anyone online who'd like to offer any uh comments and public remarks no but I have two um emails do you have one from uh the forign mayor M if you'd like to read in the record please thank you okay this is from John Smith this year I I observe 50 years living in the city of South Miami it is it is and has been my privilege and honor over some 30 years of community engagement to have come to know respect work and love the Reverend Dr Enterprise she is a gentle GI Guiding Light and Natural Soul as the first female black mayor naming a parking her honor is fitting testimony to her nurturing spirit as that is what parks brings to people thank you to the mayor for advancing this resolution and then I have one from former mayor um Sally Phillips I'm sorry to be writing this late in the day would you please read doing a public remarks I want I want you the Commissioners and all the Soph residents to know that I fully and wholeheartly support renaming the park in honor of Reverend Dr aner prise I have valued her advice during my time serving in the city I have appreciated her past and continued efforts on behalf of the city residents and and I have benefited from her friendship thank you mayor for proposing this resolution I urge the commissioner to vote to pass it thank you too for giving Voice to my admiration for mayor price thank you for that um seeing no one else online we will close public remarks and with that I believe we have a presentation by Mr Alexander madis thank you for being here this evening commissioner leben would you like to introduce the uh presentation certainly so um yes I'd like to introduce every everyone to your one of your newest neighbors Alex miadas um he's absolutely a trend Setter because shortly after he moved into the city although ironically he built this house so his two brothers beat him to it but his uh his brothers purchased homes um in the city his great uncle shares the same namesake miadas probably the most famous uh Cuban artists immediately after moving into the City and thank you by way of the city manager May made the introduction um Alex said he wanted to become a community partner and get involved in the city potentially donate some sculptures to traffic circles existing traffic circles Mr Suarez and um as well as help uh activate the city and specifically public building such as the parking garage with a um with a mural so I I understand you just moved into your house in the last 30 days so welcome and we're going to turn it over uh to you and uh yeah thanks thanks so much for offering to get involved um so yeah I'm on 58th Avenue and 82nd known as the by all the neighbors as the guy who built the bunker um so yeah I wanted to I guess bring it to the attention to see about doing a mural on that garage um right there in Sunset Place uh there um when I lived in the Windwood area for 13 years it was amazing to beautify that type of city and then I did a bunch of murals in Coral Gables and they loved it and now that I'm a resident and walking distance from this garage um I kind of wanted to see if I could do something like this on this uh parking structure and then along with this um I would like to I guess I this but um donate to the city uh possibly two sculptures um I was thinking of doing one at the roundabout on I believe it's 85th Street or 84th Street the double the 84th Street um that roundabout that was there and my idea because I was in favor of the roundabout on my corner because I live there um my son who's two years old runs out all the time no matter what Gates he can figure out how to get out um and sitting out there and Landscaping there's a lot of cars that drive by so my idea was if they did put that roundabout there was to put a sculpture there as well and the idea I had was because both circles were on the same plane of donating two sculptures to the city that would be lit up and kind of almost like looking at each other so it's almost like an interactive piece between the two sculptures um so yeah c u commissioner Le any further comments sure I just provided a um more more context in terms of the sculptures and that's all subjective um the artist Alex and our neighbors idea was to have the sculpture to be current or previous South previous South Miami and current South Miami or current and previous um essentially use the same pieces and have one sort of one a little larger than the other the same pieces but but erect them on top of each other in the second sculpture and then in terms of um Alex offering help us with the garage we purchased the city asset but it's been struggling it's not getting much attention people don't know it's there so we're trying to help activate the uh the garage and then mayor I I know to your point you you wanted um the garages to to sort of speak to each other meaning our city garage and the Sunset Place Garage the only issue with waiting is we're looking at at least five years but um the uh the proprietor of that project happens uh to know Mr Mi haris and his art and he committed to using him and mirroring whatever we do in our garage in uh in the Sunset Place garage but he didn't want us to hold up the project for for 5 years nood but um but yeah sorry Alex VI you did commit to using Mr Mardis as well and using the same the same pattern so I I I like the idea because we've you know one of the difficulties with our existing garage is that people often don't know where the entrance is and so creating something with an artistic device that kind of you know leads people to to explore the garage or Discover it for reasons other than parking initially can help hopefully draw more utilization which is I think our our goal here um I do have I did have sorry you wanted to follow do an sorry most important parts is um Mr me Hardis did offer to do it at at Cost he said the greatest expense would be the lift of course there's paint and then um labor and one thing I was missing from the renderings is the the Triangular canvas which is essentially the walls of the ramp would also be painted to help draw people into the garage okay same pattern okay what I thought what I thought could maybe actually be a cool idea um to kind of do something like that is if this was something that was approved um we can actually turn it into almost kind of a block party if you will um where I can start on the artwork let's say during the week and right when I'm almost done towards the tail end we could do some kind of maybe Foundation or charity or some type of event where we can gather people there they can enjoy and maybe even bring some of the neighborhood like kids to come help finish off maybe the bottom half uh which I've done in numerous orphanages and whatnot where they put their handprints and they kind of leave their Mark um and then kind of I guess when they finish that other project we can kind of mirror it on the same thing maybe use the same color the same design or kind of the same concept right I think those are all great ideas um and sorry last good idea which isn't mine it's the city manager is although this was our focus and it's exciting to draw people into the garage the garage doesn't have exposure unless you're on that street so he had suggested painting the pillars where the IV is as well if potentially so so I I just have one just technical question um and I don't want to be the lawyer uh flying the ointment right but that's how that's how I'm wired unfortunately so just to the City attorney uh I know we suffered through a discussion on the condominium documents unfortunately this is a condominium where we have uh a co-owner of a portion of the building and so I just wanted to ask the question and we may not need the answer now but I don't want to spin your wheels needlessly which is could could I mean I I want to do some sort of an improvement we can talk about you know what the aesthetic is and maybe work with the Town Center advisory committee and others to kind of get some feedback on a couple different options because I think you know um that probably just a good way to bet the idea but can we go ahead and make these kind of improvements uh at our sole discretion or does it require the consent of our of our um co-owner so we definitely want to look at it mayor um so I won't answer completely right now but I will say one of the benefits of the action that was taken over the last few months uh to sort all that out is that we are the only owner of units within that building okay so we control the association and we are the only owner because that that piece was carved out the piece oh beautiful okay so ESS if there is a restriction we have likely a voting majority to yes yes the only thing I want to check is if there's anything else in the lease that might in the lease agreement that would prohibit us or limit us so again I'm not I don't want to be sound like I'm trying to be difficult I think this is a fantastic idea I think we want to do something that I think it's having a community center Focus we just you know gay Alexander who's here has done a great job kind of shepher in the unity wall mural and I think maybe you guys can collaborate I think you know W one of the obvious Charities that we can support is our own scholarship fund here or or one of the other funds we've created at the Miami foundation around an event I think it'd be a great a great opportunity to gather Community um you know we'll have our Arts Festival and this kind of be an art installation that grows out of that as well and continues a lot of the work we're doing but I just want to make sure that before we ask you to spend a whole lot of time creatively thinking about what we can do there that there's not a legal impediment commissioner to to us executing this idea because I think it's a great one and I think uh it could be our own you know I think commissioner Leeman hased talked about instagrammable moments and this certainly could be one for our town center that could help also you know get some much needed publicity about the fact that we've got 426 spaces that go largely unused for parking even though people say it's difficult to park in South Miami so thank you for your willingness to to help us with this uh with this exercise colleagues any questions or comments commission Cory I just wanted to welcome you to the city for the amount of time it took we should have thrown you a block party too but but thank you so much for uh uh you know the donation offer and donating your time and and being such a such a good resident we're we're looking forward to a long relationship and you helping beautify our city by the way I didn't know you guys had uh South Miami like art festival so next year if you want I'll design the poster for you guys sounds good we've got it's this weekend so we'll put you in touch with the uh with the South Miami rotary The rotarians Who Run The Who Run the festival for us so further comments questions commiss G welcome welcome to South Miami thank you so much I I just want to reemphasize that Gail has a great amount of talent uh getting the kids together to help you out with whatever you need so I think that was a great idea and she's the right resource for you um to the commission I just want to make sure that we also understand you know when it comes to Art especially with some things that we want to highlight lighting infrastructure all that stuff that we need to look look into it uh because it's going to be important there so we want to make sure we highlight it correctly lighting is a big deal when it comes to Art you know that course so it's something that we haven't really looked in as well that we need to make sure we plan for so sounds good thank can I ask before we send him off we'll get we'll get just want to make sure we give staff direction do we want to we'll get clarity on the on the legal issue yes if that is a yes how do we want to proceed as a board is there any thoughts on that you through the mayor yes sir well I think that you said it correctly maybe go back to the downtown what what call it I think I think maybe I'm just going to throw this out there you know are there a couple I mean I I'm very keen to kind of figure out how we get that side of the garage visible people traveling particularly eastbound on Sunset since that's probably talking about the north side of the building the west side of the garage right where the entrance is I think the I think highlighting a mirror on that side which kind of kind of creates a a draw to the eye would draw people to the entrance I think that would be very value creative for the functionality and future use of the garage but I think we it'd be good if you once we get you some clarification that we can actually proceed if you're willing to take a stab at a couple Concepts yeah that we can then work through with you know The Advisory Board and and and then vet and see which one as a board as a community kind of land on through kind of a semi-in formal process andam vice mayor do you have any thoughts since you're the uh former curator on the board yeah um for us as a city I think it's important to make sure that whatever is painted by you is something that can be maintained by us um that we then do the necessary things like anti-graffiti cating stuff like that so that he doesn't spend all his you know time Talent treasure and then somebody comes within no time and scrapes it off puts their name on it whatever there's a million different ways to kind of skin that cat but we need to be aware budget wise what this is going to be like what's it going to look like before absolutely we we tackle the project because the with an art installation of that size for both you in time and Us in in money it's going it can escalate quite quickly if there's not a very clear plan and not so much for him but for us who don't know by the way just a suggestion um what could be done which is what I've done in the past is a you could say like the first floor of the mural or instead of actually hand painting it what we can do is we'll do it as a wrap so will be wrapped and the cool thing about wraps is number one it doesn't Fade with the Sun but that area doesn't get a lot of sun if anybody were to graffiti or do anything it's a matter of spray and then you clean it off and it wipes right off so maybe we do the first 10 feet with that kind of setup so if you know it gets chipped or people walking or whatever they def face it it's a quick fix and then everything above that again can just be you know hand painted the best thing is though is that you don't have Sun there like direct direct sun so you whatever mural you put there if it's spray pain or hand you're talking 10 20 years before you see a really any fading which is the best part the material that you're referring to is the 3M material for the wrap yes okay yeah okay I think it would be helpful if you can get us a sense of just order magnitude cost I think it's a good point by the by the vice mayor if we wanted to use that and before we do that though we need to get the answer from him because that that takes time no no I know I'm just like talking I'm hoping the answer is going to be a positive one right so yeah I'll get you that information I'll get you what it would say the first 10 fee for the little sections and then we'll go from there okay commiss Le me want to bring us home well sorry we did have a you share that we did have a preliminary conversation um should engage the manager believe the commission believe I mentioned last time about the approximate cost and the biggest expenditure would be the the lift itself um which the city could probably just having a senior moment about that apologize about 20 or 25 25,000 for labor m materials the biggest expense would have been the the lift okay why don't should we bring back a follow-up item for discussion at our next meeting with the response from the city attorney and and uh again just a summary of the costs yes ma'am I think also when it comes to who will approve the mural you're going to want a contracted group versus a very big group no I think we should approve it as my sense and I would say but I'd like at least to be vetted through some of the stakeholders in the town center and that that's how I Envision it again not to I I want to create a long and protracted process but I do want at least have people a chance to to comment and we can have a public hearing about it here as well give folks another opportunity to say this is something we think is positive or negative how they feel about it okay make sense yes thank you very much we appreciate you welcome again much thank you by bye do we know of the north side is the best visible thing for it like or the west side I wasn't sure what what I think I think the thought was was just a um the reason I was saying because on on the West Side the building's going to block it the uh no I know but I thought the idea of having it at the entrance was that people would have a reason to to see it they'd stumble across it and all of a sudden they'd realize it's a parking garage but the draw is the art not the fact yeah the north side would be the better visual spot where more more people would see it correct yeah but but there's but there's not an ex to access but that we can have a conversation about that as well okay uh moving on to the city manager report Mr manager yeah mayor our Deputy city manager will present good evening um just two updates tonight first pickle ball lovers officially have a home in South Miami um the first dedicated pickle ball court has been completed at Brewer Park so everybody's welcome to come play there and this weekend as you just mentioned is SOI artfest so the city is going to have a tent right around um Barnes & Noble so we'll have different departments there HR showing our city jobs available Public Works is going to be there with some Recycling and garbage information PDM Parks is going to have activities for the kids so everybody's welcome to come visit us and this weekend Saturday and Sunday okay and we have our senior games on Thursday correct yes madame vice mayor you recognized for pickle ball how do they reserve the court is it just open people show up or Quinton can correct me if I'm wrong I believe that it's open but you can reserve it there's a rate for residents and a rate for non-residents okay just a thought since we've had a couple questions about the referendum if at that tent there a few res to come by if we can have some material to hand out just the informational stuff we have on our website I think that would be helpful as well okay on the referendum ballot question so we have we have informational material I think posted on our website I'm not we're not producing a piece we're just I think could print the ballot question if people have a uh have a have a question they we can certainly answer questions about it just make sure someone's prepared to possibly respond to request or inquiries okay yes sir thank you thank you okay sorry yes sir um one of the comments I would I would like to see one that comments uh so maybe city manager we can bring up next commission meeting is an update on the annexation process um something I was interested in understanding Where We Are in that it's been a while since we talked about that and just wanted to see where we were with that any further comments or questions request of the manager seeing none we'll move on to the city attorney's report Mr City attorney thank you mayor I just have one uh minor thing uh the McCormick settlement is very close to being finalized that was the the lawsuit involving the uh the office building on on 57th the Landscaping dispute the Landscaping is feed exactly uh there the it's basically everything's been signed except there is one uh piece a release and um we would they have asked us they are also releasing us but they have asked us to execute a release uh again that would release any uh claims in the past and in the present uh present claims nothing in the future obviously um just want to know if any of you had any objections to to our executing that release in connection with this settlement so that we can finally be done with this that's what I'm raising comments colleagues what's your recommendation attorney we do not have any claims that we would be bringing uh in the moment the only thing I was I was adamant about is uh the initial draft said you know future claims and we're certainly not doing that so okay I think we're fine with the execution of the release great thank you thank you okay colleagues uh do we want to do commission reports now or at the end okay at the end okay so moving on we will take up the consent agenda do I have are there any consent agenda items we want to discuss or have questions about if not I'd ask the clerk to read items one two and three into the record do you want to take one I I just want to thank the commission for their support of the police department and recruiting the best candidates great thank you we may I may have the chief go up and say a quick word about that one just for the the record mam clerk if you can read items 1 two and three for the record yes consider agenda item one a resolution of the mayor City Commission of the city of South Florida confirming the appointment of Rand Brown to the pension Board of Trustees item two a resolution of the mayor City Commission of the city of southman Florida approving the creation of a police officer recruitment center program an agreement to provide Police Academy tuition and cost incentive not to receive $88,000 per applicant item three a resolution of the mayor City Commission of the city of Soph for the approving additional architectural and Engineering Services for the proposed restroom concession building at sop Park authorizing the city manager to issue a purchase order to EAC Consulting in amount of $ 43,6 36 for such Services uh sorry mayor before we vote I just wanted to say one thing about uh item three yes sir um yes just for the public benefit I know been concerns Al my part the um increased expense with uh improvements of this partk this was a county requirement this is not another Improvement and this was um a county requirement after the fact for the sewer that we had to run there regardless for the bathroom thank you for that clarification thank you and um if I can get a motion on the three items and appreciate it moove the motion motion and a second by commissioner leedman Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner cayen yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner lemman yes Vice yes mayor Fernandez yes agenda pass 5 uh Chief if you can just come up and just quickly explain the public what we're doing on what we did on item two just so they have a sense of what we're trying to solve for good evening everyone uh yes first sorry about my voice it's a little horar tonight um the uh reimbursement and sponsorship for the police academy so the the commission voted tonight uh in favor and uh we really appreciate your support uh from the police department side of the house we've been struggling with Recruitment and Retention over the past uh year uh and that's a nationwide issue um by doing the um the reimbursement and the sponsorship uh we will keep competitive with other cities our size here in the region and we're looking forward to being able to Market that uh at the police academy great and so essentially just for the public we're going to be sponsoring Cadets through the academy so they when they go in they're committed to us on the way out we're not just competing for them in the regular pool uh we've had kind of for the last last time this commission's been seated probably consistently six vacancies in the department which puts a lot of um staffing needs and stress if you read the annual budget reports we have spent about 50% of our overtime budget in the first four months of the year which has been a recurring problem and uh of concern to me particularly has been the stress it puts on our officers to work additional hours and stressed and tired officers often can make uh poor choices under us so we want to make sure our men and women are protected out there that they all have all the requisite support and full Staffing and so this is an attempt uh in response to a recommendation from our new Chief to kind of uh help us compete better uh more successfully to attract new candidates to the department so that's the reason we took this action this evening thank you Chief thank you you said a better with tonight thank you sir okay uh if I can have a I'd like to take up uh our item six which is the resolution on the traffic circles If You Could Read that it to the record Madam clerk yes item six a resolution of the May and City Commission of the city of South Florida approving traffic coming and modification devices to be installed on city streets I move the item is there's a second we have a motion by commissioner lemman and a second by commissioner Cory but this is a public hearing item so at this time if there's anyone like to speak actually why don't we start with a brief presentation Mr carat this is in the in the room Mr manager yes sir if you can explain what we actually what this item is intended to accomplish and then um to the moover and the seconder I might want to make one modification um if you would indulge me sir good evening um so basically this item uh follows the uh traffic flow modification and street closure uh procedure which requires 100% concurrency from all four corners on a traffic circle or two third concurrency from residents on a speed table but it does allow municipalities subject to the existing uh interlocal agreement to pass a resolution after a public hearing uh to consider traffic flow modifications in lie of the um concurrency so basically that's the resolution that you have in front of you okay so so essentially just to clarify what we're doing here is uh we had three proposed improvements that did not Garner either a response or an endorsement from one of the neighbors that touches on the Improvement and we are if we pass this unmodified basically authorizing the construction of those improvements correct that's correct and also for for any future traffic Comming devices as well okay uh would we have a just to ask the City attorney would we have a chance to look at those as well if they're budgeted or when when would we approve a future we have to go through a new study correct correct correct you have to first do a traffic study and then if you meets the criteria then it goes into the into uh into design and then construction so on a going forward basis we' have to have a public public hearing for each one of those approvals is that a separate public hearing or a public hearing how would the process work if you can clarify Mr City attorney no the the way this resolution is written uh you would get a chance to to to authorize the traffic study itself okay and then you would get a chance to to pass on the uh the design costs as long as it was over $55,000 and the implementation cost which would most likely be over $5,000 okay so those were those are the steps they would not be public hearings necessarily okay so basically on a going forward basis as the resolution styled if the if the study warrants the installation of a mitigation measure it would get built as a matter of course as part of our Capital planning process correct correct correct okay okay so I just wanted I I did not appreciate that particular Nuance go ahead I I have a question yes it would come to us if it was more than $5,000 correctly so in other words as a matter of course then in the future we wouldn't see it if it was less than $5,000 ifu we have to approve it that that is that is correct the way and then there would be would there be at that point if we had to approve it a public hearing on that item no there would not be no it would just be a contractual vote to approve that a contractual one so if somebody wanted to speak on it they'd have to do it in public remarks okay or they'd have to reach out to us correct it to address it now again from a noticing perspective it's the same it's just that the way the res the way the uh inter local is style that requires us to have a public hearing to essentially override the 100% concurrence requirement correct if I'm Miss speaking please correct no no no that's that's correct I think from the only thing from a noticing perspective there is there was notice that was published for this hearing because it was a public hearing um that would not be uh published necessarily in the same way for uh a contract approval correct okay correct commission leedman thank you I'd like to speak to the item but I now I want to speak to the vice mayor's uh question yes so years ago short it's much more now uh every traffic table is at least 25,000 and and it also depends on on how you you take the item right whether you bundle it because first of all there's a traffic survey one second is the engineering drawings third is the construction of the table and then you have the of course the special paint and then the signage leading up to it so they're you know they add they add up they do add up so more than 5,000 again this will be a public hearing item but we did hear a comment in public remarks about the installation of a circle vers is a uh traffic table uh I think the the the subject intersection was way before we sto but I think they if I understood and actually why don't I do this thank you for the presentation well let's open up the floor to public remarks Jose if you wanted to come up and speak to your item we'll respond to it afterwards yeah thank you um the the intersection I was talking about was 82nd and 58th which right now they did put in a four-way stop um somebody's proposed and before the four-way stop was put in they had actually proposed a circle in talking to the neighbors that actually walk the neighborhoods that have been there I mean we've been there 26 years and talking to people have been there 10 years 20 years the area between 80 and 84 the residents that live there what we experience is very different than the people that live south of 84th because there's no through traffic south of 84th and the correlation I can say to that is the traffic on 84th itself there's a circle on 59th and there's a circle on 58th when they remove the four-way stops at those two intersections the amount of traffic and the speed it's crazy and people are rushing to get their kids to school or they're trying to cut through avoiding uh 88th and um Red Road I actually got in an accident somebody hit me not paying attention on their way to school and the general feel of the neighborhood it's not just me I mean I just because I found out about this at the last minute whoever I found walking on the street every single person that has a pet or just walks over to the park which just to walks the neighborhood every single one's said without a doubt a four-way stop works much better and I was only talking about the 58th and 82nd the cars at least with a four-way stop either stop or at least come almost to a stop with a Runabout which I I invite any of you to go sit on the corner 58th and 8 and 84th or 58th or 59th and 84th and just see the speed I've been flipped off when I tell people slow down they're just speeding through there it's crazy and you know and cop we've even talked to the cop you there's very few places for the cops to hide and be able to stop people that go through these stop signs and once they do it's all over um the cell phone so people know that the cops are there waiting so that's been very ineffective and the resources the police have actually said you know there's other things that are more pressing so you know as much as circles do look nice they're not traffic caling and in fact I would suggest that speed humps be put between 59th and 58th west of 59th and between Red Road and 58 because the speeding going through there in the mornings and the evenings you're talking about 84 specifically 84 we've been running um more than a handful of traffic um details at that location because we've gotten a number of complaint compl for people on that segment I know I think last week we had an officer out there actually citing people in the morning am. peak hour because there is quite a bit of traffic and quite a bit of speeding on that segment so I know we've had an officer deployed at one point was this time was just east of 57th on the last segment right they've been further west before um so it's something we've been trying to monitor because that is a that is a hot spot for sure I actually saw a young lady with her son about to go on a bike ride and I said look be careful she goes oh no I will not ride a bike north of 84th everybody that has kids heads south of 84th because you don't have the same problem because that's a dead end area so which is great but between us and 84th and then I would say just because the car is coming through I'd say you probably have a similar problem north of 8th okay and You' put the speed humps there so it's the speed humps just do not work you know I'm all for the artwork I think that's very good but this this the traffic circles the traffic CES speed hubs he's an advocate for traffic circles he's not yes not not the traffic circles they're just don't work appreciate your comments thank you yes please come forward hi good night my name is bong I live in 58 you can pull the microphone down just a little bit further thank you hi my name is Kalong I live in in the corner of 82nd and 58 Street and I don't live there since as long as Mr Suarez but I have been there for 12 years so so you live do you live in the house on the northwest corner is that yeah I think so you live across the street from the empty lot the empty lot you're on you're on the north side of the street I live in the front of the okay you're the person okay I was trying to figure out who hadn't responded to the the question there so okay perfect thank you yeah it was me so yeah I've been there for 12 years okay um I saw that they were trying to do different things because I saw that they put the this is black line to see the speed and we were talking about put something a bump a run about it something to allow but now that they put the stop sign that we wanted for a long time because also our our kids grow there since they were they were little so we seen a couples of accidents in front of the house that they were not so good and now with the stop signs I think it's much better as Jose said uh I drive I bike in in the neighborhood and yes in the 84 is kind of crazy the the speed that they goes and in the Runabout it's like they don't six because I don't know if it's they are too big or I don't know how but they is like there's nothing for them in front of them so I just want to support what Jose so I just to be clear because I think you were the I I I asked the administration to bring forward this item because there were two responses for that round about about I am agree with the stops I happy with them okay I don't think we need a Runabout so you don't need to spend money in that because we already have this the stop signs okay so you would vote if you if you had actually responded you would have said no no to the RAB okay just want to be clear yeah thank you she took the roundabout way of of saying of saying no yeah thank you very much okay thank appreciate your comments thank you yes please come forward so I'm on the corner of 82nd as well um we just need again you know you said before but your name and address for the record I apologize 5781 Southwest 82nd Street um so yes I haven't been there 12 years or 20 years but I have been outside of my house in construction for 17 months sitting at that street corner waiting for gc's and whatnot and yeah I was hoping for anything uh the stop signs definitely helped um but literally just sitting there playing outside I see just run the stop sign run the stop sign run the stop sign so if you're going to run the stop sign to me at least roundabout in my opinion I think it would kind of at least slow something down but I also would maybe suggest because I've seen cities do this is maybe do a stop sign and roundabout do both because what what what they're getting at is that people roll up to it and then they just hit it and their wheels go over the curb and they basically just kind of go like if there's nothing there so if it was maybe designed where that round is maybe a little bit higher or there's an actual stop sign maybe a little bit before or a speed bump then you basically can kill two birds of one stone kind of thing uh the stop signs are already there so you just move them back a little bit and put a roundabout um um because yeah every every day I walk to the park on uh what's it called Veterans and yeah going down that one street is extremely dangerous especially with a two-year-old um so I think if we did you know either a speed bump in front of that Park leading up to the roundabout as well I think that would definitely help the situation but I also think it would look really beautiful to have a nice roundabout in the area but again if with a nice sculpture with a sculpture or at least a large specimen tree yeah uh but I I definitely think that yeah on 84th as well and on this one if they were going to do it I think that having like I guess an additional speed uh stop sign plus that I think is what it needs because stop signs aren't working and the roundabout aren't working so there's got to be something that other cities have done to like basically address that thanks for your comments Mr Mayor may I ask uh course you you recognized um and thank you and I apologize but is a proposed location for for the for the roundabout directly in front of your house right on my corner okay so I'm assing you're in favor of it and the other the other two previous speakers were against it one thing and I could be wrong not engineering I haven't seen the drawings but based on the size of any roundabout it would encroach on what is now your pro I mean it's an easement but it would encroach on your property most likely is that accurate I think we should I was going to ask that question of uh staff you still be in favor of it CU it will well I knew I know that take away but that I don't use that corner for anything a stop sign on it anyways all right and there's a large reasen on the corner I just want you to be aware okay thank you anyone else would like to speak in public um yes sir I'm gonna give you one minute okay again name and add for the record one more time Jose Jose Suarez um you know having both you know just don't get rid of the stop sign but he talked about the mountable curves where it's not mountable the reason it's a mountable curb is because of fire yeah yeah so it you cannot have a different curve and there's a a traffic uh circle on 602 and 48th they've had to put lights signage the amount of vehicles because they're speeding through there that have run through that Circle and the land they all yeah but all those folks I mean I think that's a I'm very familiar with the corner a friend who ran for the State House lives on the northeast side most of those are folks who are severely inebriated so I think they it's not just typical Speeders you know they're totally those we get those in our neighborhood cutting through we get those so if you do put you know if you do both which I'm not I don't have a problem with you don't remove it is money but you would have to put some B and so forth there yeah no I agree thank you okay anyone else in public remarks okay uh we'll close the public hearing at this time uh Mr govern if you can come back up please so so I think on I think on the first two um improvements there was uh there was really no objection there's probably the objection of one party I I I just I had asked staff to bring this item forward because I had seen in the responses that there seem to be more people for the improve at least in response to our initial inquiries than not uh I know on the on the one on 58th now and 82 Street we it seems like it's a divided evenly divided vote so uh on the first two I was going to ask commissioner lemman since you were the Mover and I think commissioner Corey you were the second or I I'd like to go ahead and see if we could adopt those two on this one I don't know if we I I don't I don't know what the design of the roundabout looks like I don't know there were some concerns from the owner on the Southeast Corner who's got unimproved lot how it might affect the marketability of that lot in the future uh I had not had a chance to speak to I'm sorry I I did not get your name I forgot it but um the owner of the northwest corner about her objections uh had been reported to me secondhand this morning from Mr Val who lives who owns a lot to the South can you just describe what the Improvement looks like what would the will there be an impact to commissioner lean's question on the uh adjoining property owners or is the roundabout squarely fitting within the parameters of the RightWay so um my recollection um I've seen the plans uh probably a couple of months ago last time uh we've already submitted them to the to the county we've been through the whole iteration of the design through the county and they've been accepted there are some minor uh encroachments at at this intersection of 58th and 82nd I don't think there's anything major in there uh 76 and 61 has an fpnl pole that that does have to be relocated but I think in this corner there's nothing major that requires relocation but again I would have to go back uh you know to the plans to to confirm that and I if you want I can bring it back or or let you know tomorrow but um right now from memory memory I don't think there's anything major here I just want to point out that uh in a roundabout uh there's no stop signs the the the county uh standard is a yield sign um so that would require some sort of a a waiver from them waiver from from the county want to do that just wanted to point that out okay no I was going to ask that question next so thank you for anticipating it did you have any questions commissioner leben since I know you're familiar with the area as much as I am so okay okay any further questions from staff and again if we were to defer action on that one could we get clarification from the county so whether they would support a waiver to keep both the and do we have any other intersections that have both a roundabout and a and a stop and stop signs we do I've been asked by the county to take the stop upside down okay um I I've you know since they've been they were installed before my my time here I left them the way they are uh I know the coun is you know they're wanting them down but for for now we've left that as is and the last question I have is since this study kind of predated our tenure here why do we I mean did we study specifically for a traffic circle condition at that location no we we we studied we did a a Citywide uh traffic study on 66 locations that were complaints from the residents we had a workshop and residents showed up and they expressed concern about you know a speeding cut through traffic etc etc so we selected 66 locations we did the study and these three were the ones that met the threshold for traffic caling devices okay but so traffic caling devices generally but how do we end up with a traffic circle versus refer from other folks you know uh speed humps further down both segments to help reduce the travel travel speeds that entering the intersection that was that was a recommendation of the consultant who did the the study okay so our consultant recommended this device versus the Alternatives and do we have any senses to why or just that just to where we came out as best you know I don't recall okay okay any further comment questions comments no okay thank you arle we appreciate you okay to the board what you guys like to do certainly not an expert in anything so it's just testimony neither am I so we're we're good company then I don't know about that but uh I I was hit in the at the fourway stop sign um by a friend of a friend's daughter and who just ran the stop sign so you can get hit any any time no I think I think the best example in our neighborhood is the stop sign the four-way stop on I think it's 80th and 59th which you know I constantly see people blow through it as well so in front of Mr sz's House the sz's house so not not by them yeah uh um second is the one of the issues with the stop signs not disagreeing but there's also ambient noise from brakes tires right which which you have a lot less of um at the uh at a traffic circle traffic circles in my opinion are much more elegant really beautifies a neighbor which is something I've been trying to do as long as I've been up here a lot of these stop signs get rusted you have tree branches in front of them um everyone can see a traffic circle unless you know the neighborhood if you're mely familiar with the neighborhood if you live there you know where the stop signs are or if you cut through every day on the way to school but if you're just going through neighborhood sometimes you don't see the the stop signs um and then the other issue with speed tables the reason why a lot of people don't want them and I think uh commissioner Corey's a aware of this is that they make they make noise I know they've been redesigned and they're longer and so they're wider part of me but that's why people do not want them in front of their uh in front of their homes the other thing is is um I'm sorry this could be based on misunderstanding and my agenda review today but I thought one of the reasons we were meeting at the side and wasn't to necessarily approve it but to reduce the number of votes or not let one hold out hold up an item yeah and coming from the person who tried multiple occasions finally successfully to reduce five out of five I'm absolutely in favor in favor of that so is that we're doing we're voting to limmit the number of votes or opposition so yes so as I understand the City attorney can correct me you know the County's policy requires unanimous consent of all the neighboring owners I also agree that in many cases one person can hold out an improvement that the majority of people want in this one example right now I'm I'm I become aware today that there's two people for and two people against it's not quite the condition that I had appreciated before where I thought there was one hold out I don't disagree I think we can make a decision either way I'm I'm happy to make one I think the the question I had I mean I I agree traffic circles can be an elegant solution I've expressed my displeasure with the condition of our traffic circles generally in South Miami that's more the landscape that's an aesthetic issue but it's also I think a safety issue because to going back to Mr Suarez's point about the traffic circle on 48th and 62nd one of the issues is that you know if you're if you're driving down Malaga uh before you get to the bridge across the canal there in cor Gables you see a magnificent specimen tree it's impossible to miss the fact that you're entering an area where you're if you don't slow down you're going to run into an immovable object right we have you know trees that maybe are two two inches at dbh um so they don't have the same visual effect to to basically require people to slow down that is the same condition that they have at that County Traffic Circle on 48 and 602 right people again my my understanding is the majority of them overwhelmingly are very inebriated but they drive because they see just you know at at eyesight they see basically an open line of sight across the intersection and they have no impetus or there's no warning visually for them to slow down so I think again I don't maybe I'll really if you can come back up and just clarify we I'm not sure how we're planning to address the center of the traffic circle to the extent that we're going to put something that is an elegant specimen Tre and not have those very tacky you know uh directional signs that the county sometimes require under their standard I think it's a much better solution I mean I add to that Mr May and I assume most of these accidents that you're referring to happen at night they do happen tonight yes sir so another idea I know we'd have to run electric Mr city manager and Mr engineer but light up those light them beautify it and make it more visible yeah so what is the if you can again clarify how will this uh one traffic circle be improved so we have we have right now we're looking at with with a landscape architect at these traffic circles to see what they can they can come up with uh obviously you have to keep in mind the visibility issues on on a on a roundabout they have to maintain certain visibility issues uh so they're they're looking at uh they're going to provide us with several options which we bring forth and and uh you know you guys will look at it and let us know if that's acceptable okay can can we just to kind of so we can kind of wrap up this conversation if the Mover is amable and the secondar as well I'd like just to bifurcate this one item and table the approval of this particular traffic circle so we can get some clarification on what the improvements are going to look like and then hopefully vote to approve it out afterwards CU I I think on balance I'd prefer to see a traffic circle over just the plane four-way stop to the folks in the back that are interested in this item uh but I do want to make sure it's done in a way that's going to have the right kind of visual effect as you're approaching the intersection as opposed to just give you what's been the history here which is kind of an unimpeded line of sight where there's really no obvious reason to slow down and people do try to kind of accelerate through through them uh once they get to the intersection so that would be my request uh commissioner if you're meable if you'd accept that modification yes okay is there yes okay so with that thank you if we can then uh call the role on the item as modified well before can yes sir just had a quick question for you what do the studies actually show if there is a speed issue with roundabouts I mean is there any studies that have been done do we need to run another you know speed test to make sure verify what what we're seeing out there is that something we should do or not I I I would imagine Mr car if you want to come back up uh I I imagine his answer is going to be that that again this is what the traffic engineer who performed the study recommended as a as a mitigation measure I know I'm just asking for I'm asking for result oriented type of study right so we deem it to to need a roundabout or a stop sign or whatever do we actually come back and verify that it's actually working it's a legitimate question it's a legitimate question yeah I mean at this point we do we come back to to analyze the numbers to see if it's working uh we haven't done that something that can be done we want to make sure it works right yeah let me just add just we still have to maintain you know County under this uh intergovernmental agreement we still have to maintain County standards right you know what we're doing here we're still under the umbrella of that agreement and they are just giving us the ability to do this so to to be able to get to this point of being able to install something requires traffic study the engineering analysis right so based on that information uh you whether you have a go forward or not so that information uh precedes uh any recommendation once they have the findings and the engineer will recommend which type of traffic calming device to to to install so leading up to it that's everything that happens and that's still under the purview of the county intergovernmental agreement this item here just allows us to move in in a in a somewhat different direction which is allow through public hearing and resolution to approve uh such installation versus the uh requirements that the county may have as it relates to thresholds of votes both in intersection and or in the middle of a block if you're doing a speed table as it relates to if I understood your question commissioner uh Cay that we go after the installation let's say in a traffic study and and do traffic counts to determine you know what has happened pre and post I don't think the city has had that practice that's probably not I would say a common practice necessarily um so probably Mo most most people would say because the studies were done and it was recommended that that would be the appropriate that that that was you know the proper doesn't mean that it works in all cases Mr manager I think the I think the way to kind of bring this conversation because I have the same curiosity is maybe we bring this portion back if we can just have I'm assuming Kim horen who did the study for us in 2017 or who did the traffic study for us it was done by Marlin Marlin okay Marl engineering so if we can have the one question on top of that real quick it was the traffic study was done by who Mar engineering and who actually did the design of it the design was done by um stantech okay so it's separate right studies SE seate consult just verifying okay sorry again in terms of just understanding the basis of the recommendation if you could just ask why they chose to recommend a circle here as opposed to speed humps uh prior to both ends of the intersection because that could have been another alternative that was warranted make sense commissioner mhm I think that would be helpful information yes sir you wouldn't really have speed humps on those Avenues maybe on the streets I think I think the I think I I I I would imagine that the eastwest traffic is less of a problem there but I may be wrong I mean my observation driving that segment is it's north south that's really the where people are trying to exit the neighborhood particularly uh quickly or or cut through the neighborhood from 80th down to kind of bypass the intersection right and 80th but that's 8 yes 84th without a question the problem is east west definitely I live that intersection live that stretch as commissioner Leman does every day but I think on this segment really the the problem is on the north south directional and by the way there were tra traffic study warranted um a traffic table on 85th Street but yeah a neighbor a neighbor objected so yeah I I think the goal for me was to get over the singular objection this one it's kind of a split vote I'd like to look at it further i' like to understand what the design is going to look like if we can bring it back I think the commission's been amable to that and if we can answer commissioner K's question I think which is why did we suggest this versus some other intervention that would be helpful and if you could let us know whether people come back and perform after the fact installation studies as a matter of practice I think that would be good information I I imagine the answer is no to your point Mr manager I haven't I haven't heard of it being done but um you know well me me me neither but we do have constitu that are worried about that so this might warrant that one if we need I think I I you know I think I I I'd like to understand you know because I my my perception as a lay person is that the problem with all these intersections that are problematic be it on 84th or 62nd Avenue and 48th closer where you live is that just if you can see through something right there's no reason to stop right you if you just you get to the intersection particularly at night and you imagine you can drive through it and you come upon the roundabout and you kind of discover there's an impediment there and all of a sudden you're trying to decelerate enough to get around it right but you're not really reducing traffic as you arrive at the intersection that's my Layman's perspective on it so I think you know for me certainly when I again I'm driving down Manata to get home because I'm cutting through the gables to get to South Miami I see that big tree in the middle of that roundabout I know I got to slow down when I'm getting towards that intersection it's just you know it just tells me if I don't stop I'm going to run into something that's probably going to take my life because it's that big so and T typically just so you know typically when we install a traffic circle we or we put in uh speed tables uh we you know the complaints that initially came from residents uh they go away so you know we don't get any more complaints from anybody on that street where we implemented traffic control device on speeding or or or you know cut through traffic uh so I think 84 84 Street The Only Exception so yeah yeah I mean in a way that's kind of like a measuring tool that we use uh you know that's fair um and then again uh to make a correction on what I said earlier uh the actual designer is SRS not stantic SRS so I'll be bringing the plan from SRS uh for 82nd Street and 50th yeah really I just want making sure that the study and the design were completely two different companies right yeah they're two different I don't want to make sure that design companies are telling you to do something and they benefit from having more work more design work being done thank you for that mayor I just want to clarify make sure we we're clear on the ask are we bringing back and reviewing why all three intersections what was recommended no it's just this one that's been the subject of dispute yeah but I just well the others also have been if we consider that in fact we didn't have the threshold for approval so I didn't know if we were going to also analyze those or I you know my my my recollection of this we had affirmative responses and the rest were no responses am I recalling the situation incorrectly for those other two intersections again we get for the benefit of the public we get you know three responses two of them count as NOS right we get an affirmative response which is a yes from the neighbor if we get a no it's a no if we get no response it's counted as a no am I am I correct corre yes yeah that that's that is the outcome yes so we have the other two intersections there no there no recorded NOS to my recollection it was just just no responses to the to the inquiry okay I'm trying to pull up each individual one uh so 76 Street and 61st AV uh we had uh a no response no response no response uh and one concur for 58th AV and 77 terrorist um a concur a no response or Concur and do not concur so it was one one no okay one no and one uh uh no response and on 82nd Street in 58th Avenue we had one do not concur one no response and two do concur yeah anyhow um I think we have a motion for the item as modified in a second um thank you for your time and Madam clerk if you can call the role commissioner cayen you want to come back to him um I'll come back to you yes commissioner Corey yes commissioner lemman yes Vice May bonish yes mayor Fernandez yes I don't pass it as I made it okay thank you so let's move on to um if you can read first item eight please first reading on the pension plans item eight in ordinance of the May City Commission of the city of southy Florida amending the South pension plan to allow the purchase of up to 5 years of prior military service by all participants by amending chapter 16 pensions Article 2 City Pension Plan section 16-21 approaches of credited Services thank you um move to the item is there a second second any questions or comments seeing none mam clerk if you can call roll yes commissioner Li yes yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner Kay yes mayor Fernandez yes item passes 5 first if you can read item nine please item n in ordinance of the mayor City Commission of the city of South Mar Florida amending section 17 7-16 preconstruction and construction standards for sites of chapter 7 buildings of the city's codal ordinances to require restoration bond for construction work impacting city property and our rights away to prohibit construction work on legal holidays and residential districts and to require a staging and parking plan for construction sites thank you mam clerk commissioner Leeman did you want to have a comment I'm just asking you to move it because it's your it I I'll happily move the item Second Great any questions or comments um no but this is in response to the public will you correct so we all took some steps to make some modifications to liberalize when construction could could occur in single family districts as we kind of continue to try to strike a balance you've heard some complaints about construction happening on legal holidays obviously want to give people a chance to rest on those days this is a response to that we've also seen on 84th Street you know people using the median that we spent money improving to park and stage and so we want to make sure people are using our rights of ways and sailes that we have a restoration bond in hand when the per a building permit is issued so that if they do not restore those public rights of way a restoration can happen by the city at no additional cost to us so that's the main impetus for this item it's a attempt to respond to some complaints and some Growing Pains that we've had in recent in recent months and uh appreciate your support here on first reading if you have any questions happy to take them yes Madam clerk Madam vice mayor I'll take um I asked the City attorney a question and I think we might benefit all of us from hearing it I said him I thought we already had a bond for construction in place place and you can say sure Madam vice mayor the uh so we we have a bond in place for when you're when you are actively doing work in the right of way so you're modifying the RightWay and need to restore the ride of way this is a separate bond this is if you're doing work on private property but you're using the RightWay for materials for parking that kind of thing uh this would be to restore the rideway if you do any damage so the example that the mayor gave people parking on the median uh if there you know I don't know what that is if uh if there are plants and trees that are that are damaged because of it and and your grass is torn up that would the bond would be to address that specifically okay and then the second question was that it didn't make sense to me to require somebody in a residential neighborhood to have a staging and parking plan for the construction site and I because I see on Commercial okay it makes sense you know they're building in front of kakua and the guys have to park their cars in the garage but when you're in the neighborhood there is no parking garage there is no parking lot there is none of that near there so saying this I think is kind of like an odd thing to have for a residential construction doesn't make any sense to me and I think that the bond itself would take care of any damage that happens I if there's construction happening near your house construction workers are going to have to park somewhere they usually park on the properties and then I would imagine when you're talking about the right of way damage you're referring to big trucks when they come to drop off or pick up and that makes sense but this staging and parking plan doesn't make sense to me yeah so I I'll take a crack at explaining why why I requested it so you know uh we end up when we don't know where people are parking what they're doing what they're planning on doing we end up with disputes the contractor as to whether or not their workers or subcontractors actually created the damage so the reason for requiring is just to make sure that you know they tell us what their plan is we know what their plan is we can hold them to their plan but we're also not blaming them for work that other people people service homes here all the time they may Park some places they may damage property I I certainly don't want a contractor to be held accountable or responsible for someone else's damage so um I think having an understanding of how they plant to stage and manage what are the development of large single family homes for the most part that we're seeing certainly in my neighborhood uh not unreasonable to kind of ask them how they plan to manage that uh the staging of vehicles from subcontractors that will be working on the site um usually they're parking in the SES public SES you know near the homes uh it's obvious it shouldn't be I don't think it' be a big burden to say this is where we you know take out a map we plan to to park and we'll have you know these number of people here at any one time or during different times of the construction um certainly you know if there's a modification that um and I've shared it with a few Builders to kind of get their perspective and happy to make some further modifications with M Cabrera if we get some feedback they think it's particularly onerous but the goal is to kind of just document the condition of the right away and also make sure that people aren't getting we're doing good work because we have a few contractors That Vary after they they'll damage the well but they'll go out there and they'll lay S I think Mr mad's contractor did exactly that on on the Avenue no he did not okay well yeah yeah so they did they did a portion of it I saw I guess the portion that was taken care of but I I don't want I don't want us in after the fact disputes when with neighbors and I think this is one way to avoid it you mean to say they did it half grass half grass okay so so then based on that explanation are we then going to tell the contractors and I'm making this up because okay so this is the house we're going to be responsible for this oil this one and this one that's what then if that's what they're saying as their part as their plan that's what we're going to hold correct and they'll be a we'll be able to send code enforcement out there to check and make sure they're here to the plan and yes sir and sorry in response to the vice mayor to piggyback with your say mayor just quickly it's just a matter of being a good neighbor sometimes it helps when things are documented but um this is in response to a lot of independent public really neighbor feedback we've been getting a lot of it in that area from large construction Crews tearing up selles and people don't know it's they can do it it's public property property one of the biggest offenders is a utility that's had Cruz around the neighborhood and and parking in City parking on city property without authorization I don't have a way to bring them under our our offices but this here we can do something so we're just trying our best to strike a balance okay Mr K look I I understand where the problem is and I understand where people are getting you know ticked off about the issue specifically in that neighborhood you know I I'm a contractor I've never had to have a plan where to put you know cars or trucks or when I'm doing a job tosite I've never had to do that I don't even know how to do that so the first part is you know how do we enforce that how do we make sure that someone has a plan is that something that we're going to add a step two to verify that because I've never had to do that um you know and the second part that you know and I've done it in Coral Gables I've never had that problem that we had to go provide information in Coral Gables on where to park the cars where we're doing construction sites um the other thing that I had a question was how do we enforce all this like what is the enfor ment plan that we're going to have with all the planning that we want to do all the requirements that we're trying to do that and then go ahead and fulfill um you know enforcement which you know we're still trying to catch up on what we're going to do from an enforcement perspective which is something prior to you that we've struggled with so like I just want to understand what the plan would be yeah you want to take a CR answer let me say something just before M CA you know Shar is certainly here you know professional and personal experience I mean there there is a problem I mean and I see it every day I drive this entire city and I see contractors and and a lot of times is it's Subs you know they they're subs and they're different all the time um they have maybe a limited footprint a WordArt but that doesn't mean that you're entitled to damage other people's properties including the cities right away and and it's happening and it's happening and it's not just big trucks it could be the the workers themselves the subs so it is a problem it's a way to try to reain in a little bit for them to have some consciousness of this and and take some ownership of it because it's like hey oh that's a sub you know it's not my responsibility it's so and so they are causing damage they are causing damage to to areas that we have to maintain and we've invested money into uh and they're causing damage to other people's areas so it creates some awareness and Consciousness from the get-go um this is not necessarily something that's uncommon in in some places uh they do have this kind of uh sort of Milestone where you capture current conditions and and you know the bond really at that point is is just that's just just a um sort of a fatal flaw at that point you're trying to recover from something uh hopefully this will prevent a lot of that and and you don't have to pursue the bond so um certainly Miss Cara has has experience with us and I'll let her share it but I just wanted to share my personal experience of what I see on a daily basis throughout including trash having lunch you know littering uh our swes I mean it's happening it's happening all the time and it's uh takes a lot to stay on top of it um so I think I think we have a lot to grow here a little bit to make it better not make it difficult to build but have some ownership and responsibility um on behalf of the developer and if it's not their employees or Subs good evening Sonam development services director so um basically the uh staging plan is a questionnaire that we have I brought it from City of corg a we adopted it to city of South Miami and you basically just answer questions so for a single family home a new single family home it's not a very complicated plan it's really just fill out this questionnaire letting us know that you have been conscious of this is the property do you have space to Stage do you have space to bring all the materials at once or do you have to you know sort of bring your material as you use it you know these things they need to be thinking about this otherwise they just go out there and do whatever's easiest for them and then we get the complaints in code enforcement and we do have a mechanism which this ordinance actually puts into place that a violation of that staging plan will be a $500 fine and we do that because it really is from my past experience the only way to get people to comply and when you see a lot of construction you know not everybody is worried about the neighbor's tree or actually the median that you discussed we uh met with the arborist and he told us that the trees in front of that property on the median the city property have been hit by the construction trucks that most likely will not survive yes Madam vice mayor I just want to point something out as a general be aware we have if I'm not mistaken is it two Code Enforcement Officers I'm sorry I could is how many code enforcement people do we have two two so they're doing their regular work we'll be asking them to keep track of this we just saddled them with the whole sprinkler thing because we didn't want the county to do it and so we keep kind of incrementally adding little things we need to be aware that these are two human beings that have a limited amount of time every day so if we're going to keep adding stuff then we're going to need to consider at some point what that means for those two people and if those two people are enough because we seem to be moving towards the code enforcement everything and I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing I think in some ways it's great and in some ways it's horrible but we are doing that we keep keep creeping and creeping so keep that in mind when we make these decisions just on that point I'll recognize you next you know again it's um sorry the public hearing it's not a public hearing item sorry Jose it's fine I'm sorry I but we'll do our best to carry I think your perspective here I understand but um you know I think this is you know we can we can do code enforcement on a Proactive or reactive basis and right I think the reactive frankly the way we've been doing it generates a lot more work and a lot more stress on those two employees frankly if we have a plan we know how many building permits that we have issued in the city every week they can go out there and do spot check right it's kind of programmatic it's just part of the day-to-day they can build it into their schedule you know for me or for anyone else on this stus or the manager to have to call Miss Cabrera for then her to then dispatch or have a neighbor do that it's disorderly it's chaotic it interrupts the regular workflow I think in this fashion it almost creates a workflow that's more manageable than the alternative that's just my opinion not only have what you yeah when you give them a $500 penalty you don't have to go back the next day and the next day and the next day because they just keep on violating the staging plan I mean you really need to teach them a lesson and then they police themselves because they don't want to get a $500 fine for every vehicle it's not Park where it's supposed to be commissioner Leeman sorry the other thing I was going to say is is I understand you're concerned vice mayor but the code enforcement officers are scheduled to visit these construction sites anyway and um just with a law in place that gives them something to enforce is that sorry the mayor is that historically what we've done like when you're doing construction that we have code enforcement go by there because of yeah of course and then secondly is it could be in response to a uh a neighbor call as well but at least now there's a law in the books that that can be enforced but I sorry M Mr Mander I shouldn't have maybe that question was for you but code enforcement I don't know if I should have answered that no I I I you know there's a lot of things that from a code enforcement uh uh has not happened necessarily I I don't know that it's a police state if you will I mean I think it's been a very uh sort of complaint-based uh but there's a lot of room to grow and so it's you know balancing uh wanting to have this kind of work done but in a way that people will be mindful and respectful of their surroundings and have some ownership for it uh which I think is lacking and so and so I think you know we whatever the will of the commission is if if it's a priority then you know it's up to me to figure out how to how to get that done right and and I'm mindful of the resources as you mentioned with two people but if the issue is a real issue that is beyond our capability then we should set the tone of what that is from a policy standpoint and I got to figure out how to how to step up to that um so we're not it's not going to be overzealous but we have a problem and it's not great it's ideal and the amount of time that we SP spend babysitting a lot of these sites is more than what we should be doing because they're not taking ownership of it and so I think I think there's a little bit of a happy medium there to create some structure uh that after a while people uh then begin to understand you know we mentioned neighborly most of this is just having some common sense but a lot of times it's a subs and the developer is not on site the contractor's not on site so nobody's really policing it I had I had I had that exact experience with neighbor who's building across the street from me work started at 7:15 I frankly don't care because I'm out of the house by that time but I called the owner because he wasn't aware and I said look we're trying to allow people to have more flexibility just be aware that construction is supposed to start at 8 I really don't care personally but someone else is going to call and complain and we just can't you know we need to be able we strike a balance that we protect everybody and people don't get upset about the fact that you know there's construction happening on Saturday right that was a concession right on our side we're going to give you more time to get get through the process more quickly because we want to limit the window for disruption but by the same token let's live within the rules that we've enacted because we just need to be respectful of our neighbors I think if we hold people accountable the system hopefully will work well for everyone yeah and we have a legal requirement to enforce the mpds which is a siment control on the job sites um pretty much all the building department staff got certified in the last two weeks to do this I believe public courts has also gotten certified recently and when they go out to do those inspections this is just another the part of that inspection I mean it's just they have basically we've created a checklist that they just go through to make sure that they're meeting on all npds and then any other items like the parking or the tree protection Whatever It Is Well I'm just going to say the last comment look I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to approve this I mean I'm going to support it um and I I'm the reason you're here is for that right to start putting Law and Order process and making sure that we have everything ready like what we wanted but I will say it's going to be difficult for to implement it's going to be a little bit difficult we're going to go through some Growing Pains I mean uh getting getting whether a truck or a subcontractor or landscape truck you know we most of the damage that we see on the SES and all that stuff from landscape trops right so those are the things that it we're still going to go see it's hard to enforce just saying you have your work in front you I'm going to support you uh and I think that this is something that we need but it's going to be you know we we there's a lot of work to be done there commiss lemman that point I wish the landscape trucks would park on the grass and not the street yeah because they park on the Avenues the main thorough fares and they just block traffic and it creates a hazard then you have to go against traffic it's it's not a perfect system by any means let's vote Adam Clark if you can call the role please yes commissioner Leeman yes Vice Bon yes commissioner Cory yes K yes mayor Fernandez yes I passes first reading if we can take up item five please we have left items uh five for I have the second presentation if you want to defer that or if it's if you want to defer it I'm happy to defer it uh we can also take up uh the capital projects item those are the those are the ones I have left on the docet am I missing anything okay cler if you can read item five please yes item five a res of the May City Commission of the city of South repor amending final PL application pb-22 d015 to identify the East 137 um feet of subject property as separate parer from the remainder and designating such procer for part purposes designating the remainder of the plat for development of affordable and or Workforce housing purposes directing the city manager to pursue development of the remainder parcel for affordable housing and Workforce housing thank you uh Madam clerk just by way of brief introduction these are Parcels that were designated for development of the C plan a long time ago we had discussed them I think briefly on a couple of occasions I wanted to put put this item in front of us so we could kind of get to the conversation about possibly reserving a portion for a park and dedicating the rest to development I'm suggesting affordable and Workforce housing I'm open to allowing it you know soliciting offers to sell it for any any housing related purpose since that's the character of the neighborhood but my reason for bringing it was was that uh so with basically yeah so if you want to put up on the screen maybe um the image of the plot itself basically the thought was the the northern portion uh along South Southwest 60th Avenue about the first 37 ft which is the depth of the adjoining single family home lot which is the former Homestead of Marshall Williamson would be designated as a park the balance would be then uh surplused for sale as the proposal has for either affordable or Workforce housing basically so what's the size of the plot can we talk the yes if we can John can you don't have them you don't have the item um so if you've got uh so basically the joining single family home lot is about 137 feet deep and so I thought we just match the character of that of that existing plaed lot basically run that line North that would be the footprint of the park that will be the subject of discussion item four the balance could then be Surplus for um Housing Development so consistent with the character of the neighborhood so that was the that's the proposal essentially that's in front of you is there City attorney am I missing anything by way of a description no okay long longterm I mean um Beyond hopefully the designation I you know in terms of the Marshall Williamson home I think that's you know as we talk about capital projects opportunities we'll hear that we can't possibly acquire land or property under our Charter with um with Bond proceeds but I think uh in terms of pres preservation opportunity given that this neighborhood is very quickly changing preserving the Marshall Williamson home possibly the city acquiring it at some point in time in the future is a conversation whether this commission has it now in the short term or the long term I think there's an opportunity to kind of create a historic Enclave there a park with a home that would kind of preserve the um at least preserve a portion of this of the neighborhood historical Legacy so and recognizing you know uh the homestead of the founder you know I think that was also a home that was act space that was activated for outdoor movies and whatnot is something that we can make part of our Parks inventory this is a long-term conversation not something I think about doing in the short term but I think this be this is the first step in possibly accomplishing some of that uh potential so you've got the image now in front of you again if you look at 6500 basically if you ran their Western lot Line North to 64 Terrace that would be uh the park parcel from 60th to 64th the western boundary would would mirror that of um the parcel at 6500 the balance of 6488 would then be platted for development is um some some type of of um of housing no so 6500 Southwest uh 60th Avenue long-term conversation not not certainly something I'm going to bring forward not discussing today this is the former the former Homestead of the Marshall Williamson family and I you know Mr MC is going to help me with the conversation with the family I don't know what their intentions are long term I just don't want to make I want to make sure we keep a piece of that cultural heritage of the city if it's an opportunity again it's their home they can do with it what we want as we talk about the item at the end right at the end home what they want excuse me I miss spoke um you know I think there's opportunities around item the presentation later on capital projects for acquisition where we could expand Parks you know the home of Chris for cookie arboro next to All America Park could be a similar conversation where we have a structured uh arrangement to buy that to expand that park space since acquiring park space in the city is challenging to begin with so I'm just mindful as I look at opportunities to create public space Where We own land where we could possibly aggregate land in the future and you know that this opportunity and the other one are the two that are kind of top of mine for me as I think about uh possible Parks acquisitions over the long term so questions about this item commissioner Cory um I was just going to say obviously this one particular item that we're voting on now is about the affordable housing parcel right not and and I do like that idea of eventually joining it potentially with the Marshall Williamson project you could find something like the mer house correct in Coral Gables where you actually have an activation space which would be great for you know whatever type of events or ceremonies you could have there as well well I do think I I I really like the idea if we are going to use city land that it has that kind of public benefit tied to it on the affordable Workforce housing it's obviously something that is much needed in that area with Generations having to leave um due to Rising housing prices um I know depending on how we do that that may not be you know guaranteed to to Residents directly in the area depending on how we do it but um I do really really like the idea and I appreciate you having a vision for this and executing it because it's something that we've all been talking about for a long time so I do I do think it's a great plan and I'm I'm fully supportive of it thank you for your comments further questions it's fine so no questions comments or in order would you like to I I have some questions okay you want to we leave go ahead question questions yeah sorry so first what is 6850 this sliver here not train but I I don't know it's I believe it's privately owned otherwise it would be highlighted interesting the it's ours as well the top left no the bottom 6580 yeah so and there's a the in between 6580 Southwest I believe it's 60th uh sorry it's probably the same owner that owns between 60487 and something just happened to my screen and the one below it um but I think that's okay I don't need in correct in correct I'm looking at I don't know but sorry okay first uh question I have is um for the for the City attorney um this was acquired before my time Believe It or Not by the CRA for the intent of uh affordable housing is that correct so does it is it uh deed restricted does it have to be used for that purpose because when the when we when we sunsetted the CRA the properties went transferred to the city so if there is indeed a deed restriction we'd have to look at that but we're not aware of any deed restriction okay but I believe I mean I could be yeah commissioner my understanding is it was at one point identified for Town Home Development by the CRA which I was right well that that was a part of but I believe it was what actually M rather than have you speak out loud why don't you come up and we'll recognize you for a second since it was my point is was acquired for that intent was the entire parcel was acquired for the intent of um affordable housing want to do something different it's different times different housing market we're okay okay okay yeah thank you thank you sir so um right different typ housing market one of the different product I told you migi Mario he's resident he did uh a design around there concern about preserving the mango trees around the mango trees there were seven maybe there were nine um Town Homes obviously expensive Endeavor to make affordable so considering it was acquired for that purpose and I hear that on this commission more anything else affordable housing the idea would be to make it all affordable housing and I understand the interest in naming a parcel but I think you can find a parcel where there's not a park we're going to discuss in a minute potential discuss let's get into it but the general obligation Bond and potential uses for that money and the first three things listed are parks so right here you have the heart of our of our Park which is our parks and um where all our parks and wck employees are based it's where the Department's based you have the community center which the best parks and wreck offering in the city is there right directly in front we were talking about parks in front of front of parks in front of parks directly in front you have a park with with tennis with a playground with a community meeting room um and then we have somi Park which for public benefit is is not a park it's an afford it's a mixed use Housing Development but as part of that that project SOI Park is also charged with creating a public space which with public art which is a park so you have three Parks you know right in front of you assum you have this so you have two parks right next to each other this park and then you have their Community Center the pool outdoor indor basketball courts or only gym and so forth I mean to me it's just four parks buting each other I think there's a better location for a park and if you want to name something there's plenty of other opportunities to you know to name something in another location I would make it all affordable housing and then you know better than anyone up here mayor's a land use attorney and um commissioner Kai as well you're in development that the larger parcel the more of an economy of scale you're going to have there's nothing you need more when it comes to affordable housing than economy is of scale especially considering this is a less dense area than somi than Som Park so I think you'll detract from affordable housing or suggest making all affordable housing you see this in the Grove and name the affordable housing project look look I think uh part of the other objective here is to kind of preserve some of the natural Legacy that's on the site they're some very you know Wonderful fruit trees that are part of the entire of the parcel I mean I have reservations about losing the ones on the West Side um I think as we think about the conversation we had today starting at 4: that ran to 6:30 there probably going to be a few new thousand units hopefully over the course of um I'd say the next decade built in and around this property so I I don't think we're ever going to lack you know we're ever going to air uh by adding more green space to that inventory U I think this is um in terms of what we could do which is preserve all of 6488 and make it Park which is an option um I think it's a pretty modest proposal to keep a portion of it and I think you know uh Advance the rest for development you know could be affordable could be Workforce um that would you know provide needed housing stock um probably going to see very little town home Andor single family housing stock that's accessible to people in that price range uh so this is probably the last best opportunity to do that uh and provide housing that's not of multi family character um in that area that's the that's the idea behind it you know uh I mean again it's up to the players of this board how we want to do it we need four members to agree to C CLA for that purpose um you know I'm sorry I thought we didn't four did we not three fists okay I was mistaken so yeah so any further any further thoughts conversation yes ma'am I I just feel that having a park across the street from a par doesn't make any sense that's just me I'm like whether we decide we want to leave it with you know fruit trees for right now while we look at what's going to be happening in that area that's a different conversation but carving out part of this right now without having a clear picture doesn't really make a lot of sense to me especially because like commissioner Le been said there's a bunch of parks in the same area and while I understand carving out green space is important you have it it's it it's not lacking there right now so I just think we need to keep that in mind no I don't know where else in the city we have a park across the street from a park down the street from a park two blocks from another Park well we we Sorry through the mayor yes sir um I think that um there's a big difference between Parks as well we all know that we we've toured a lot of the parks there's a difference between a passive Park and an active Park we don't have passive parks in that area so this will be designated as a passive Park is my understanding yes that'll be correct so that's the only difference there right we we do understand the difference between active and passive so there is no passive Parts in that area so this is why I think this might be a good solution for that we I've done a big study throughout the city to figure out if there's any other land that we can do for Parks it's not that easy right prices have gone up you know there's a lot of opportunities but we have to go byy we haven't been proposed as a commission up here to go borrow so we can go buy and acquire properties so it's it's it's very difficult to do that here collectively on this commission so that's the only difference on the parks and then why we should probably move forward can I can I ask a question just I know I think you're reacting to the the green space that's behind uh Jr right is that the park you're referring to yeah but that's further further south on okay okay but so I I mean I think it's probably likely that the campus of that school from what I here is going to be redeveloped redeveloped and with substantially more density and intensity than exists there today and that's something that's going to be outside of the our purview from what I potentially understand as well so I think you know again just seeing the conditions changing in the neighborhood we can disagree on whether this makes sense uh again uh I'm not trying to overpark a community but I think here we have uh the ability to you know hopefully with the companion item honor someone who's part of the city's political uh history and and the leg part of the Legacy to this neighborhood and looking forward you know if we look longterm right and that's what I'm trying to highlight here you look at 6500 and you know the person who Homestead this area right is another significant African-American history in the in the in the history of our city I think as we look at acquisition opportunities right to commissioner ka's point I think aggregating that corner and 6500 is what I think would make sense in the long term so Surplus in 6488 to allow for more Housing Development facing the green space and possibly more intense use is something I think is I think makes sense um but again it's just my just my opinion and hopefully I'll be able to earn you know the majority of your support on the item okay okay okay so sorry follow up so um two things so this is predicated on buying someone out of their residence because people are occupying 6,500 so we're saying hey we want to do this no yeah it's got it's got to be no and I you know look I'm not I'm not we're going to displace people we're not we're not I mean this is this is just a this is It's a frothy Market we're going to have to buy a it's a conversation that's a long-term conversation it's not something that we're going to do anytime in the near future and then what I would do I'm in the minority may be convenient me to say this saying it because like everything else I think it's in the best interest of the city this land was acquired you want to can't come up but I'll argue he's biased he already spoke that but this land was a required 100% with the intention of affordable housing which say true to that especially now that there's not a CRA and if you guys want to hit two birds with one stone do an affordable housing complex it can attach however you want to do it right to accom create an economy of scale accommodate touch the most people and then name it just like in the Grove after the subject person that you want to name the project after there's like the vice mayor said there's parks on top of the parks and by the way the parking front there's absolutely a passive area it's a maybe not landwise but it's part of that Park is linear it's expansive there's plenty it's all shaded there's plenty of shade trees you want had a bench there so it attracts more people to go and and sit and um you know read a book or something do we just for my own edification do we own that linear section or is it owned by the county which we the section just behind J tennis courts there's a tennis court there yes but I mean do we own the entirety of that footprint or is it owned by where it's like a weird shap yeah it's a weird shap whole weird shape city of South Miami good I didn't I was I thought it was know by the part of the school complex so you have even more Park area than you thought right in front no I know I just I I think again I don't think it's uh again I this to me will be part of a historical campus if that ends up being something that comes to bear and you know preserving the you know some vestage of the legacy of those trees that green space and uh maybe in the future if there's a willing seller certainly not going to that home has been designated by the family so I think it kind of speaks to their intention to want to make sure that the home is preserved in honor of the person who who uh founded the neighborhood I think there may be a conversation to be had City to private property owner if they would want us to take responsibility for it and preserve the structure and and make it part of the city's um patrimony but again open to uh any modifications you all would propose um I mean I think this is my proposition I've heard your thoughts on it do we want to advance a conversation on the vote or do you want to any other comments no okay mayor two two two minor things well first of all I were you talking about Marshall Williamson park or were you talking about some other property that is I think the school board the person there's a piece of there's a piece of Green Space right behind J Lee right right behind J Lee yes that's East that's counties that's count count and theast north of that is the county as well yeah whatever Green Space there is behind J Le is is might the County Public Schools that's J Le and this space as well correct and this space as well yeah that's what my thought was yeah that's might be the county go like this right it's down here just down here right yeah but look Circle we should put here let me show here look how it's a circle and yes in the tenis court yeah how expansive that Park is see that yellow no I I I understand but you know the comment was made that you got a park in front of a park and I'm just mindful of the fact that thank you sir would you consider instead of splitting this lot naming a garden or something in that Park so you don't add more Park on top of Park I I again do we want to is your is again I'm not sure what your request is so you want to Surplus your your position would be let's Surplus the whole thing for affordable housing yes okay my position too but what I'm saying is if there's another piece and the park goes in a bunch of different direction M you want your microphone oh yeah sorry sorry I'm saying if it goes in like a bunch of different directions like we saw you could consider you know do you want to name more Garden or whatever I I yeah I I'm I mean there's there's two parts to what I'm trying to accomplish one is stay true to the mission for what the land was acquired for preserve some of the I mean it's some there are some very impressive uh very impressive uh fruit trees on the property on the whole of it I mean it's going to be a shamed to lose quite a few of them when you redevelop 64 the other the balance of 6488 and so I thought the way to do that most elegantly instruct the right balance was to keep the northeast corner of that property as Green Space which we should designate as a park it's going to be a 5,000 foot Park we're not talking about a ton of land and the balance could then be put into service for needed housing and I I do think that it'll be not that it's even out of character now if it were to be developed how it is but as you're adding density and we talked about in our zoning today there's more density coming not to that exact area but around that area as well I think that green space can be very much welcomed by the many many residents coming in SOI Gardens or somi park or any of the other developments coming into we get too quick yes sir it's not arguing against the trees but I'll just have to mention because I've been through this conversation number times few times yeah yeah there's free trees mango trees they're not protected and South Miami probably the strongest tree ordinance no it's not a matter I know and then the last thing is is um somi Park be very similar to Jerry Lee unless Jerry Lee I mean maybe it's obviously there'll be difference than maybe teacher housing but um somi Park was charged of providing a public space and we don't know that the Jr Le development won't be either I mean you have to assume it's a county affordable project just like somy Park is that they'd also be a Char unless I don't know maybe the city manager C the attorney maybe you know mayor but I I would think that they would have to provide a public space as well I I don't know I'm not familiar with the plans are I just know that there's been conversation about read so okay uh I appreciate all the comments and the feedback and um Madam clerk why don't we go ahead and call the role on a second sorry one minor clarification uh the resolution says the East 137 ft I'm looking at the plat right now and it's really more like the East 112 feet if the intention is to line up with the with the rear of the the the neighboring single family house yes 10,000 ft yeah the East 112 ft okay yeah that's fine without modification I'd like to move it second okay so a motion by myself and a second by commissioner Corey Madam clerk if you can call the role yes commissioner cayen yes commissioner Corey yes commissioner Leman no mayor vice mayor bon no mayor Fernandez yes item passes 32 thank you if we can read item four please yes item form a res of the m city Commission of the city of South Mar Florida approving the naming of City properly located south of Southwest 64th Paris and between Southwest 60th Avenue and 61st Court in honor of and after Reverend Dr Enterprise thank you and so again uh my make some quick opening remarks obviously uh it's black history month and I think an appropriate time to reflect on and honor people who have made a contribution from that Community to the city I thought it was appropriate to consider naming this small space this green space in honor of the former mayor I also intend to bring back just didn't have the time to have the um the background check completed for Dr Joyce price the naming of the existing clinic on city property and her honor as well I know that the subject of um honoring people their alive is a little bit controversial we have a different standard in the code but um as I get older and reflect upon my life and the life of people who have impacted me I think it's uh a wasted opportunity not to give people their Laurels while they're with us and so that's why I wanted to bring this this item forward at this time so with that I hope that she'll uh give this item some favorable consideration and U designate this small piece of our city in honor of someone I think who's made a contrib a contribution that was substantial during her Public Service probably more substantial afterwards and so um um colleagues open to your comments your thoughts thank you yes commission K I'm I'm more than proud to support this and in favor our our old mayor or new mayor or young lady mayor uh you've been very insightful for me I you taught me a lot in year and a half that I've been here so I'm very proud to support this item on your behalf further comments CH Cory I just wanted to thank the mayor for your tenacity I know uh and in and bringing this item forward thank uh mayor price as well and you you've also you know inspired me throughout my time here on this commission and prior to that and I'm very honored to be in support of this item okay yeah so I I passed an ordinance for a reason um I uh I Champion nameing his street neighbored after Reverend Rodney James um I uh championed naming a street after the first openly gay mayor not from the city of South Miami but I think South Florida the article yeah all South Florida um but also first in South Miami and um also been in the de where we had someone um who was on the deis who wanted to name a street after a city employee the county called and said no no oh it's an active City employee commissioner Cory's very well aware of this there a long arrest record I was also on the um um I'm talking about felonies I was also on the day when another personas wanted to name something after someone that had been arrested 18 times in our city Alone um and like I suggested earlier one two birds with one stone thought I camp with a pry pretty creative way to do this to allow someone to receive recognition today but follow the ordinance and there's a reason Abe Holtz um actually the day I brought the ordinance forward ironically sometimes usually not my timeing can be pek on the front cover of the heral was an article about Jose cono in Street naming so I thought that that the ordinance perform was very creative someone could receive recognition today but it was named at the appropriate time and we named a street after the first Hispanic mayor after uh the first person to ever serve in the city to go on to higher office the person who brought more positive attention to the city anyone else because during that time the city received National recognition as an All-American um city we received a grant to buy um uh All-American Park but that said the ordinance I suggested was it can receive recognition today but the the park will be named after that person at the appropriate time um the time someone is deceased that happens to be a best practice nationally so I have to stay true to the ordinance that I Champion for a very good reason and um I have to I have to follow my own ordinance So and I've said this publicly countless times you have you have so I'm not I'm not I think you're being am and I don't compromise myself and I think you're being consistent and so I I I would just say no disrespect can name it I mean same thing did for other people I I mean I think um the only thing I would say and to keep the conversation short since time is time is the hours late you know I think um the ordinance is one that's well founded but you carved an exception because you know as people get to the end of the life it's you know we're always concerned about you know not to name anyone specif but you name someone in your in your conversation who's had a public street named after them and and those folks when they're that young in life can do many things over the course of the remainder of their life to kind of disgrace themselves and disgrace the community at large and I think we're not talking about that kind of a situation here frankly um you know what I think the opportunity is and I was happy to support mayor Robina and having a street name for him I mean he's been someone who I think probably the city's one of the city's best Mayors right without a doubt um and someone who has conducted himself you know for more than 60 plus years of his life honorably and I had very little doubt that he would do anything but that right for the remaining time he's got with us on this Earth and I think the same is true for Dr Price so um I think that's probably the main reason you know no it's not I completely sorry I'm to interrupt you because I completely agree with everything you're saying yeah it's just best practices right and um it's I don't have no concern that that uh this person will do anything in your life to reflect poorly in themselves or the city yeah it's just best practices understood that's well I think uh any other comments I like to say something okay yes go ahead I think that I've I've given comments on this enough times that it would be repetitive for me to say the same thing again so I'll just leave it there okay commiss Cory we need four right we do so it doesn't seem like we're going to have it but you know I think I I've been hoping to find a way to kind of bring us to a consensus on this but but I'm sure you'll see this again commissioner Cory because this is the third or fourth time so maybe in a month well no I mean it's it's we've never voted on it before and I was really out of an attempt to kind of find a path to to bring it forward and and have you know uh a solution where we could all kind of rally around an idea but you know yes sir would it would it be wise to adopt the modification that commissioner leedman suggested that the park be named at an an appropriate time yes I I haven't heard that he's willing to do that but I I wanted to if he's open to that then I'm certainly open not this I really believe that this area was and there's several other naming options I really believe that this area was acquired to create affordable housing I mean that was it's more that money area as a park than the naming of the I have two I mean I said so the we really should look at the item separately and I did I looked it independently so independent the first item we discussed you know how that works procedurally but it's related because we already voted on I have an issue with all these Parks you know adjacent to one another right and then this was acquired with monies and we can look that up and then you may want to refer to Mr M but a lot of times there were Grant monies I don't know what the case was here but it it was you could even argue was gri because it was C money half that money came from the county it was acquired and we discussed up here countless times you're finally able to get Madison Square done with the sole purpose of creating affordable housing so I understand there's a lot more affordable housing product now but the demands are all so much higher now than they were before so um I uh maybe there's another way to approach that stay true to the neighborhood because there are concerns with with SOI Park and right gentrifying the neighborhood but I believe that that should be affordable housing cuz that was the intent was acquired yes sir sorry but in the naming you're right you can name it today but it's such at the appropriate time it'll take the actual placard and but that would be a different site or no I I I mean I think housing complex I again I think or you can wait seven months my what what what if the CRA cuz I looked at the original drawings and the C had affordable housing with greenspace in that spot if the drawings show that is that something you would be aend for that so well there was well couple things so that was Mario I hope I'm getting his name V gelini viini viini he was a local architect um it's never approved it was just discussed as an option and that was response to a different affordable housing project and preserving as many mango trees as possible so I I recall correctly some of them were even at an angle to preserve the the housing trees now I don't think you can build a um an affordable housing product as a townhouse I just don't think the market would support that so um I think to make an appr appropriate affordable housing product it would have to be a a denser prod uh product I don't know how many more units we're going to fit in a 10,000 foot lot that we would deem Green Space so it's not it's we're talking about a small space anyway right like whether we make affordable housing or not have we've had I mean I I believe that we've had projects come to us where we're going to have small affordable housing where we can incorporate a green space there so it's it's to the will of the commission but I mean anything's possible I mean whether it's small whether it's three stories seven stories we're not designated that big in that area it's more residential maybe time I don't even know the designated right now town houses it's not it's not s let mean what happened to the the area in front of um in in front of Madison Square that the city owns next to the Family Dollar the original subject area this I believe this is the property you're talking about no this is right next to the dollar this is right next to Family Dollar it's Cy Corner Family Dollar no there's um in front of the the convenience you're talking on the on the we right where you do the tree lighting ceremony that was the original subject property that you wanted to name no no that was it's it's I've always it's always been this one never been the owners of that are Carrie Johnson and then the other lot is so look I think it's you know I'm I I respect your opinion I respect your perspective on the item um you know I've kind of tried to keep kicking the SC on the road to see if we could get to some consensus on it so hoping we can meet in the middle with a plan that honor the perspective and plan of the CRA but still allowed us the opportunity to create a green space that could event hopefully in the future if the family that's the will of the family allow us to tie it to a historically designated property that could become part of you know the patrimony of of the city um you know akin to a meric house right our own our own George Merck and Marshall Williamson for that neighborhood um you know it's your proga if to support it or not I think at this point i' just like to vote it up or down and we can figure out where we go from here you don't want you don't want to consider doing what commissioner liman did with r Rob I what I'm what I'm hearing from commissioner lean is he just doesn't think this is a a spot that's worth preserving as a part but you already voted it 32 but so already did so vice mayor would you support the item that way excuse that would I think it's worth a conversation I'm open to that conversation I just didn't think he I didn't think uh commissioner you what vice mayor give her credit for being the mediator there already is a park as of 15 minutes ago I'm I'm not disagreeing I'm just by that sorry that only requires a resolution to turn into a park no all we've done right all we've done so far is authorize the changing of the plat so we can what we file with Mi County we'll we'll cut it into two pieces and that that will be designated as a park on the plat for for the I surprised was a resolution not an ordance there may have to be future steps to do yes there'll be future steps they'll have to actually designate a part corre yes yes I as long as we give credit to the vice mayor for the uh for the compromise yeah it's already a park so it's out of my and so I'll support that okay so the so the future so the modification would be we would identify this as a site that we name an honor of the former mayor but that would take effect ously as we did with mayor Rina yeah okay I'll accept the modification again I have to honor my ordinance no I'll accept the modification as proposed by the vice mayor is there any objection to the the second by the second no objection okay I'll say with that Madam clerk any further comments okay Madam clerk if you can call the role please I need a motion the motion was to uh name the park in honor of uh Dr Price the modification was that it becomes a postumus naming as opposed to a naming while she's alive right I need somebody to move moved that initially that the original motion second it I thought we had commissioner Cory as sorry commissioner Kai as a second original S I didn't yes I'm second sorry sorry you may want to ask she's interested in that well I mean I have a I have a question you that postly yeah so so basically we are essentially we are essentially naming the park but the the name will be uh become public poly I'm not going anywhere and I would not accept aous designation uh I will say this I would not I you know I want you to call the question on the original resolution vote it up or down just call a question I will say this to you people who are in affordable housing also like Parks uh Green Space not just concrete and there could be a picnic table or whatever in that small space but I do not accept the modification I'm not going anywhere I'm still in the game you go to see me here so I thank you for the potimus but I'm not going anywhere so I I don't I don't agree with that at all if you would call the question on the original resolution vote it up or down thank you thank you for your comments okay um I remove my motion you withdraw your second I withdraw my second okay then I'll withdraw my motion and I'll just move the item as presented second so have a motion to adopt the item as presented by myself with a second by commissioner Corey yes sir and the other thing I want to say is people enjoy Parks equally in the whole point is there's plenty of park space there already regardless of housing i' never made any com suggested that affordable housing shouldn't have park space I don't think you did and I and I think that and I think that space I'll say this that space should be enjoyed by people that live there currently and frankly we do I don't think we do service the neighborhood with the way we keep it which is another reason why I want to Surplus a portion and keep a portion I think we can you know reasonably manage so that was another motivation I just didn't want to have to throw that out there um okay okay with the item as currently Poss have a motion by myself a second by commissioner Corey Madam clerk if you can call the role please yes commissioner Cay yes commissioner Cory yes commissioner Leeman no Vice bon no mayor Fernandez yes item fails and I thank you for your willingness to consider the modification thank you for coming by the way yes on I want to thank those of you who voted yes to celebrate the only melanated mayia mayor in the city probably will never be another one um I'm looking at the commission so I want to thank you mayor for the resolution thank you commissioner Corey thank you for Mission Kyrie and thank you those of you who voted no and one of whom I supported and helped elect so again I will say this people who live in affordable housing also like park space I don't care how small you know what you presented here that was a very small space and so if you don't even want a very small space to honor the historic event that happened in this city that's okay I'm good and you will still see me participating I want to still you you have to deal with the history history whether you want to vote that up or down you cannot deny the history Madam mayor thank you for your comments and just for the record I'd say that we're all melanated just to different degrees so thank you all melanated may I say something you want to may I say something you may you may I think that we are a community of very many people very different people none of us any more or less than the rest agree with that comment thank you uh Mr riverol if you can give us your presentation on parking I believe that's the only item left other than the uh Capital presentation you want to do Capital first want do Capital first okay that way we can get I don't think it needs to be very long I wouldn't want it to be more than five to six minutes let's just take up Mr Mel who's waiting here patiently and then we can sorry yeah you know I honest I felt that some of those directed tour me I just want to share a fact with the commission okay I appointed Dr Price to the C board I put her in a position of leadership to lead her community these are facts and she quit she quit I know she quit the opportunity to lead her community I think and that that's just a fact it's not personal can take it how you want thank you okay Mr F Well thank you for your preparing I'm not treating argument I'm differently I'm Tre differently than anyone else your microphone your microphone's a I'm treat your differently than anyone else the president was set with the most successful mayor let's let's let's let's let's move on since we've already kind you've made the point I think articulately before and we understand where you're what your position is it's been nothing if not consistent thank okay um Mr Mayor in transitioning um you had asked staff uh to uh prepare some information as it relates to uh General obligation bonds and and uh how bonds work and then uh bring it into South Miami reference as it relates to our current debt and then um so you'll hear from Serge mon from pfm our financial adviser and our CFO of Fredo riverol also in your packet um part of what you tasked us to do is just share some ideas of things that the city May uh borrow for as it relates to to to a go uh that was put together obviously um this exercise uh did not include a me with each of you and obtaining that information and and more elaborate it was just you know bringing ideas forwards of things that we could Finance over period of time um that would be either purchases or improvements to infrastructure so those are the ideas and the lists uh that you see in your packet so bringing this together is basically a how do bonds work what is our current status you know from a debt standpoint and then those ideas for the purposes of of this commission beginning to have some discussion as it relates to uh uh potentially any Bor in if you will um and so obviously there would be a lot more work to do uh if that's the will of the commission so uh thank you Sergio for for being here tonight and Sergio will take you through portions of the presentation and Alfredo will also jump in and certainly will be available for any questions and just by way of brief introduction before you I recognize you sir um spent a couple days in tassy last year last week following up on our priorities um one of the things I hear consistently is we need to figure out ways to come up with more match this year's budget is pretty healthy still we've got four projects that are alive in the budget process they're going to go to the conference this weekend um we're well positioned you know right now on both sides but um the conversation becomes easier particularly next year as the budget going to get tighter certainly if we are thinking of ways that we can provide more matching dollars and particularly some of the projects that we have uh most notably our Culver and Bridge Project you know our septic dord project we have very di Minimus local match and so positioning ourselves to have success be it at the state federal even the accounting level if there's a conversation for the authorization of a go on a countywide basis thinking about how we can also bring some dollars to Bear we open up some funding opportunities that we can leverage our dollars with other people's money which I think is always our goal so that was the other part of my motivation for bringing this discussion item I appreciate you guys giving me the time or giving us the time to talk about it and Mr Mel that you're recognized thank you Mr Mayor Commissioners good evening Sergio masal pfm financial advisers uh I have a seven minute more or less version of this or I can do it in 45 minutes so seven minutes I thought that would be the answer we'll go with that route we can we can get an ab workout in the same time um so so you all save me for last uh I'll introduce you to the wonderful world of Municipal Finance here and try not to put you to sleep um General obligation bonds as the name implies effectively is the Full Faith and Credit of the city that is the Pledge for these bonds what does that mean it's repaid through a avalor tax a dedicated tax millage it doesn't count importantly against the 10 mil cap that there is in the operating millage it's also the only way to authorize a general obl obligation bond is through a Citywide voter referendum um that has to occur as well so the residents have a choice in funding these projects or not one really important characteristic of not just general obligation bonds but any bond in in that for that matter is that it's not borne by you know the project that you are funding is enjoyed by this generation and generations to come forward and those Generations all kind of share equally and paying back this debt service on these bonds so there's what we call generational equity in this in this type of bonds there's a number of steps um regulated by state statutes that are needed to that are required in order to issue General obligation bonds and that really starts here at your commission level and that starts with developing the project list what projects do you want to fund with these with these bonds that project list uh can be vetted there's Community Education there's community outreach that goes forward I think the manager spoke about a long list of projects we'll talk about a subset of those later those projects are you know finalized the project list is authorized by you all it's a scope General projects whether it's uh administrative facilities Parks and Recreation Public Safety those are the kind of large buckets you know in general obligation bonds uh the commission also from there from that point decides by by ordinance I believe to authorize the referendum and also the specific ballot language that goes in that referendum so the ballot language Again by State Statute it's um very restricted there's a number of there's a word limitation there's words that need to be in that bot language but that all goes forward in that ordinance it gets approved by this commission before it goes to the to the voters finally there's that educational Outreach that I spoke about that's a really important part of go go General obligation bonds program that educational Outreach is when you would bring your constituents the residents the citizens of the city to discuss the projects they understand kind of what projects are being funded what categories are being funded and then uh give them an estimate of what the cost would be to those to the residents we went a little bit more in depth on the timing and I don't want to line by line here but just suffice to say today's your starting point we we said April you finalize your project list it takes about a year from the time that you start this process to when you would actually issue your first series of bonds and have your first funding in the bank ready to deploy for projects or matching funds for other projects credit rating process again we'll get more in depth here if we decide if the city and the commission decides to move forward but the credit rating process uh is a very important step you're talking talking about a publicly offered uh debt instrument goes to the investor Community Market participants the city right now does not have a public credit rating however given our internal models that we've run and Alfredo's familiar with these we would expect here a very high rating doublea category which is a very strong rating and that effectively means lower borrowing cost for the city um I think this is part of the punchline you'll want to see so I bold face print here only for purposes of discussion we assumed a 50 a $50 million uh Bond referendum this table shows if you were to issue all $50 million in one single series of bonds which is I I'll preface that with saying or I'll say that now it's very unlikely you're going to issue $50 million at once it's just Capital program would become unwieldy there's no way you can deploy that much capital in the market um you know construction contracts and procurement what being what it is in that case Cas which I would say is an Uber aggressive schedule one issuance $50 million for tax purposes I'll also add you need to spend those dollars uh within three years so they should be really shovel ready projects in this case we ran based on your current taxable values and a nominal very modest growth and I'll come back to this I want to make this point clear though 3% growth rate to tax rols into the future um it would be approximately for the average home state of property about $300 year that would be the the millage impact to the average home state of property again one other thing I'll say is that really conservative interest rates here we ran all these numbers at about 5% interest rate if you were ask me where we would go in the market today you're probably at four and a quarter maybe a little bit lower than that so all these numbers are conservative Uber aggressive onetime issuance of $50 million that's a big chunk I doubt that would that's how it would ultimately play out so we ran another scenario which is what I still consider a very aggressive kind of just split it in two $50 million you issue 25 million first a couple years later you come back and you issue the remaining 25 million um again in this case the average home state of property pays about $275 a year that's the new dedicated millage that would that would be applied I I still think that's really aggressive more than likely you're talking about three or four Bond issuances just in my experience with other municipalities that's how it plays out by the time you have the procurement done your kind of finalize the engineering studies done it's it's going to take more time than that one other important factor I mentioned the 3% growth rate that we appli to the overall taxable value of the city we heard a lot about development I know you all spent two hours earlier today talking about zoning changes and whatnot I think I heard a thousand new units coming online anything you do to increase the overall tax base of the city will only reduce the numbers that we're talking about today it will reduce the burden on current residents in other words that tax base will be more spread out and the generational Equity that we talked about new residents move into the city they start paying this millage it actually reduces the burden on your current uh tax payers one other thing with respect to timing and I'll turn it over to Alfredo here quickly is you do have some loans on the books now um those loans are scheduled to at least one of those the 2011 loan which I believe was for the parking garage um that one is scheduled to roll off the book books in 2027 your final payment so that may actually marry nicely with the issuance of General obligation bonds into the future as this debt rolls off um you might be able to do things to reduce millage on one side as this as your millage comes online for your go so Alfredo you want to take so um just to give you a little bit and I know you've heard this from when we did the budget this fiscal year we present our de service every year currently like Sergio was mentioning we have uh two current loans we have the 2011 which has a current interest rate of 4.55 and then we have the new uh loan the newest loan let me not say new but newest which are both are just refinances um they weren't the issuance of actual bonds or any debt um which comes due later in 2032 and that's at a very low interest rate I want to say I can't see from here but 1.3 I Tred making a bigger I can't see but it's it's very low yeah 1327 okay so so those are the only two loans that we currently have again the last time they issued bonds here and they weren't General obligation bonds they were revenue bonds it was in 2006 and that was for the parking garage um so we've issued bonds since uh the last ones that we've been refinancing in 2001 revenue bonds 2002 revenue bonds 2001 was for Community Center 2002 was for parking garage 2006 was parking garage to finish it um other than that we have had no debt the debt that you see there are all refinanced or refundings of previous debt just because the market uh called for the refine it was beneficial for us just like you would refinance a home if you got a better rate um now there's always a a discussion yep of course our annual Debt Service debt is about a million dollars a year here as you can see on the bottom sorry I didn't have my mic on the only thing I was going to ask is the principal is very low we should consider paying that off I know in this market we shouldn't because the rate's so low right but it doesn't say the interest rate so I think the interest rates the interest r at the top of the screen so we got the truest loan it's four and four and a half sorry okay and then the chase loan which is the the biggest part of the balance it looks like am I correct is uh 4 point Sorry 1. 327 correct correct so we're always looking at all times we're looking to see if it's a better time to refinance with our idle cash right now our returns are over 5% course of course so there's no way I can stand here I mean I would love to pay it off and we have the cash to pay it off but I'm it just doesn't make sense at this point um so that's just where we are in the interest market and and when we did some of the refinance the reason the 2011 was never coupled into the refinance was because that's a taxable alone that was and it's also associated with the IRS SEC situation which makes it extremely tainted and so it's just it's always been in our best interest just to pay it off and get it off so again our annual debt right now is a million dollars that's what we're playing in debt service so uh there's always a question what's our debt capacity well Florida statue doesn't have any any requirements on De debt capacity and our Charter doesn't speak to it now we use the standard 15% of assess value which if you see we can we in the not something that we're subject to but overall using that 15% we can borrow up to 385 million which is not something that I would Rize please don't tell this commission that um so I just bring up this millage chart these are the 20 the most recent millage um you can see where we are on it at 3.95 which I know this this body knows very well considering that they adopted it um as you can see and I only bring this up as you can see with you know I'm not going up to the Pine Crest which are the newer cities but if you look at all the cities of the older Generations ours included uh we're pretty low and that doesn't include obviously we don't have a solid waste fee um that other cities have or there's two municipalities that don't charge solid waste and it's in Inc incorporated within the U millage we're one of them Indian Creek is the other which is a little bit different than our demographic stuff City of Miami and craw Gables include fire and library in some cases so there are some offsets on it but the millage the actual operating millage 3.95 in comparison to the older cities that are with us is a is a fairly uh attractive mry and I I want to mention that is if if if I was to take out from the millage how much would be our debt service which I just mentioned was a million dollars in theory we can go to 3.5 and that would give that would give $1 million in savings from the millage or from the operating avalor um I mentioned that because the idea maybe is uh and I'm not saying that that that that is the way to go that would be a it would be your decision and recommendation but um there is a possibility of lowering the millage and then having a general obligation which is in essence another mil you can see there's other cities that have it and you'll see a column right here on the next to it where it shows debt where they have General Obligations so there is that op opportunity to lower the millage the operating millage and then with the general obligation B uh bonds help fund those capital projects that we currently use general fund to fund so that's something just to for consideration and with that um in summary I'll let Sergio finish up um in summary the general I promise you seven minutes so I I'll cut it here I mean in summary I think you saw the the various punch lines here I think 50 million using just as a round number you see kind of the impact that would be to the average homeowner um we think it's it's very very aggressive and very unlikely that you would issue all 50 at once more than likely that's going to happen over a number you know sequence of issuances probably you know six years by the time the entire program is done so that really helps to kind of stagger the impact to the homeowner and as your existing debt rolls off Alfredo mention one possible idea to kind of you know marry it all together so with that questions comments we take the one yeah yeah I think we're gonna have a few questions undoubtedly so let's move uh right to left you want to start commission K sure um when we do um a general Bond obligation uh General obligation Bond do we the the majority for the vote uh of the public is it past 50% is a super majority it's it's 50 50 plus 50 plus 50 plus one um can you can you talk real quickly about and this is for the benefit of the public but an obligation Bond versus a revenue based Bond and what the different options are for us like we've had revenue bonds here before it looks like they've been fruitful um can you talk about the differences for the public and for us I guess sure absolutely so the general obligation bonds as I mentioned avalor dedicated aalor millage right full faith and credit of the city it's going to be your highest credit quality typically investors will um prefer those just given the high credit quality um revenue bonds are just an alternative vehicle where typically you have a specific Revenue stream that backs that that bond is the Pledge behind that Bond so if you think of kind of Mi day County let's let's use that as an example they have water and sewer revenue bonds or solid waste fee revenue bonds or or in our case we could take uh the people's Transportation tax correct and bond that other cities have done that to repave and rebuild streets exactly right so you can take a dedicated um Revenue source and pledge it something like the PTP C tax you'd have to pledge that would you can only Bond projects that are Transportation related you know so certain revenues have restrictions you can do a what's a non adoran bonds which basically pledges all of your non-or revenues the entire basket of them um towards repayment of debt that's not as strong a credit but it's certainly done in Florida it it would it be easy to do a study based on different Revenue sources that the city May provide for you to give us a a cap or a maximum value that we can borrow based on capacity sorry sure sure that's easy right yes okay more questiony yeah I just had two best practices questions one and I know this was just a sample um you have the 30-year term on it a lot of times our budget committees they want us to uh have shorter terms so that the pay repayment doesn't Outlast whatever the Improvement is uh is that something that you would recommend if we were to engage in something like this or it it will be required for the useful life of your asset to not exceed the bondage mons so yes I 30 years is pretty standard typically the types of projects that you talk about funding have a useful life that well exceeds that but certainly if the useful life of some of these projects were shorter if it was equipment or other projects like that we'd really have to dig down into the project list and exactly what's being funded at the time of each trunch you may have one trunch that's 30 years you may do another one that's 20 years so but absolutely that's a good question right great and then another uh uh component that we often put into our decision making here is relative to what other cities have done as well and I don't know if there's a way we might be able to see other cities in the type of bonds they've they've gone through with and as well they've had to have gotten past um which is a consideration as well for us is you know oh sorry sure that's that's absolutely we can we can look at that there were there was a slide in here that showed kind of the different go bonds that that are out there I can tell I can rattle off just the ones I remember from the last few years I mean City of Miami has a Geo bond out there or adoran bonds city of Dural very recent yeah here's here's the list so you can see Homestead has one Miami Shores has one Golden Beach we worked on that one North Bay Village we worked on that one Miami Gardens we worked on that one that was for their City Hall dado we worked on that one as well um yeah so we worked on all those except for yeah and to get and to get an idea of the total amount obviously we would just use that percentage to whatever the the total I'm sorry the total amount of their actual GE refer um yeah I can give you each of those numbers I have them yeah I wasn't going to try and reverse engineered from this list I'd be impressed if you did that right there on the day and just just a I mean just an important point factually is um The Debt Service millage rate is not a static rate it it adjusts every every year to basically make sure you're just paying back the required debt service so if you see avalum growth in your tax roles you're going to see that uh Deb service millage amount actually reduce so you lose capacity every year that's right theoretically that's right commiss lean you have any questions all right thank you um thank you mayor uh Mr city manager will you walk us through the the process again first we'd have to pass an item on the day then it would have to go to referendum then it would come back to the yeah we we have a slide on that if if you could go back to the slide on the timetable Sergio had sort of put this together to to uh assuming that this commission wanted to do a referendum in November of 2024 uh this would be the schedule leading up to it and and obviously there would be a lot of work that we would have to do based on priorities you know your priorities desires do more homework some of the numbers that have been attached to projects have been like really sort of bpart calculations the city has not really been in this mode of of putting together and or cosing out projects necessarily so so so the work leading up to this item um is really you know very very loose I would say in some cases so from uh ordinances uh to putting something on the ballot the city itself uh you know has the ability to inform and educate you can't Advocate U and I certainly have been part of those efforts in other cities before um and I think it's important and and and really up up to that point you know you're waiting for the voters to approve or not and you haven't issued any debt right I mean at that point you're waiting for a referendum post referendum um is when you actually uh then have you know ordinances and resolutions that authorize the debt and then obviously they would structure uh the debt in the best way possible depending on how we would want to cycle that Revenue you know when do we need the revenue how much um and as Sergio mentioned you know one one tranch of whatever amount it is whether this 20 30 million 50 million it's probably unlikely um and and uh you know that has to be cycled in with our ability to execute those project s if I can just build on that on your on your question if I may to the to City attorney and maybe to Sergio it you know here we're assuming a general obligation sale of March of 2025 we're not required to go to market right away after we have the authorization so for what period legally does the voter author authorization last does it last for the ation of the total amount of debt that the public is authorized or is there a time limit associated with that V voter approval yeah I I don't have the answer to that question okay I don't know Serge if you have the best of my knowledge there is no time liit it's up until you've exhaust the capacity that's what I thought but I just wanted notal so I just say that to the board because while we're going to go to the public and ask quite honestly as we retire debt we may give it we may we may wait to time the market right so we can do some of the upfront leg lug work pass uh a teer notice that allows us to kind of spend money that we then seek reimb a teer noce reimbursement for project costs right but then only go to market when we know that we've for example in 2027 we know we're going to have additional Deb service capacity so we don't have to we can try to balance my goal would be to try to balance you know a millage rate reduction and recapture that capacity so that at least in terms of the rate the effect is the same to property owners and and given that timeline that one of one of the uh the debts that are that are older you know may have practically been retired by then correct you know without paying it down early um uh the second debt would would require paying paying that debt down um but then you end up with that sort of neutral position if you will depending on how much debt you issue you've created the capacity Again by by the the Dalal one is is a a pretty recent one and that's uh was $150 million Parks Bond program of which are building facilities with with that Revenue um that's probably one of the latest ones that I remember more recent ones Comm me recogn sorry sorry thank you so just to summarize in terms of the commission's involvement hypothetically item passes uh for the commission requires four votes then it would go to the next Ballot or the commission can choose you know a November ballot let's say so more representative ballot um here we have it here and then after that it has to P well sorry it would have to pass by 50 plus percent and then it would come back to the commission okay again my next question take a mayor but I know you've been champing this or at least speaking about this how much what number are you thinking about and what would that money be used for because here it's a hypothetical and is this city manager defense and as he mentioned I just want to say this this was put together quickly and he asked department heads is that's fair to say Mr department heads for ideas but I know this coming from you mayor so are you can you just give me an idea of how much you're thinking about borrowing and what that money would be used for I I don't have I don't have an amount I mean I want to do something that we can manage responsibly that gives us the opportunity to pursue other dollars right at other levels as I mentioned to start um you know there's some projects on this list that I would kind of put in the general purchase deferred maintenance category I really don't want to do a lot of that you know what what I think we want to do is you know we can do a combination of a general obligation Bond some revenue bonds maybe we want to we want to bond our PTP revenues to help bridge the gap on some of the cver and Street Replacements to the set that that's a project that's authorized or accelerate some landscape and Street streetscape improvements as opposed to doing pay as you go but I think we're talking about Big Ticket things uh facilities you know replacement of bridges you know the kinds of things that escape our ability to fund on a on a pay as you go basis effectively I can go ahead yeah I I think that the city in our vision is planning to grow a lot over the next you know 10 to 20 years so I think thinking about the city and and the amount of people that we're going to have whether it's annexation whether it's the amount of units that we're adding or whatnot the infrastructure that we currently have whether it's Parks whether it's the current gym whether it's current whatever I think we need to look at expanding that whether it's by more more real estate uh that we can acire and this would be an Avenue that we could probably do that so you know not only is it you know fixing some of the issues that we see on these these list but it's really thinking about investing into the city moving forward which would be highly beneficial for us you know commissioner lean you know screet scape enhancements for the Town Center even replacement facilities here having this authorization of our in our pocket allows us to think about whether you know we want to max out the development envelope on this footprint or whether we want want to take a combination of proceeds you know and some indebtedness to get a product that the pro the public is more comfortable with I think it just kind of opens up a whole Suite of opportunities my concern is also given what you know Mr riveral said right now we're getting really good Returns on our cash for very safe investment instruments debt you know there's kind of an inverse curve there with the debt is actually cheaper than what our cash is generating you know so I think from a cash management perspective keeping more cash on hand earning better returns and borrowing other people's money at you know long-term rates that are below our current cash returns is just a responsible way to manage our money and so I think that's why I wanted to kind of introduce the conversation well I say responsible this is City money it's public money no they're going to prove it or not a risk correlation and so forth but so I mean what I just heard is is borrow money to acquire more real estate of we have real estate just if I may on that point because I had a conversation with the city attorney on this point um I don't would you want to jump into this issue there's a there's a legal issue in our Charter I think that we should be aware of as we kind of have the conversation yes right yes so it always is so there is there is a provision that says that that the the bonds in your Charter you have a provision that says you can only um uh you can only issue bonds uh that are payable from the from adorm taxation such as a Geo fond um it can only be to finance or refinance capital projects when we first read that we you know there was the initial reaction of okay I don't think acquisition is involved in that but we have since we feel a lot more comfortable after speaking with Mr riverol and looking at your budget uh acquisition is is acquisition of projects for a a public purpose is included within that within that Ambit so we feel comfortable with that when I called you we were not comfortable with okay but we become maybe there's not an issue okay so yeah I just want to throw out some other funding uh mechanisms but before before we get into the project list if I may are there questions about the process not even no not even I'm not going to get the project list okay no problem sorry just when I say funding mechanisms other way ways to raise Capital so one is um again and I I mentioned this to the um the mayor earlier that I believe Sunset Place is going to be the bit I believe it but the biggest driver and but and everyone all six candidates weing you know half the candidates were elected there were two candidates in each seat I say this all the time har All got it right when they said all six candidates were were uh supportive of revitalizing our commercial area well there's still a you we need a stop Gap there's at least a five-year window in between today and Sunset Place and that's one of the reasons I've been championing placemaking I believe and by the way this isn't cuz of a certain proposal or came up when I ran for office we can tell you about debates we have when I was running as prior elected saying we need a uh a hotel in our in our commercial area I don't think anything will in the interm will drive business like a um like hotel that and and plac making we have an opportunity on the surface parking lot to preserve the amount of parking generate Revenue sell the air rights um to a product in a hotel where people are going to frequent the retailers and frequent the uh the restaurants that would generate $7 to9 million we just spoke about selling the Marshall Williamson lot it's not a large lot it's affordable there has to be a couple million dollars in there we're talking about redeveloping this site can do some you know some back of the napkin math and um right there's obviously if this ballot item passes we'll do a lease otherwise we'll have to consider sale but after all the improvements are paid for which first foremost be the new city hall and new police station the library is a a variable um you know there should absolutely be excess um there was in the previous proposal uh building costs have appreciated but so have uh me land costs appreciate even more especially this location so and we're talking about a higher density as well and if it's a lease we can bond that money and take that money up front or we could take it on the front end let's say over a shorttime horizon um there's the Public Works lease which we haven't accounted for yet that could also be bonded because is that a just is that a 20-year lease I don't recall yes but remember it's still I would say that's just that's not Revenue the bank yet but I'm yes 100% accurate and then there's the inspection site and there's an argument don't sell a city asset that thing sat the not this commission not this Administration but it was in the CRA an area where we were charged with attracting investment and we contributed to slum and pl the old structure was there the champion raising the structure and so forth but we've been sitting on that site for I don't know 35 years if you're going to do something with it we should have done something um so we could sell that site or lease that site and then Bond it my point is that there are other funding me mechanisms and then I'm going to put you on the spot mayor so I'm going to apologize to you but you're advertising right champion this campaign as you said earlier we appreciate that for the uh you know to go beyond a 50y year lease to make this city a new city hall viable option but one of the things you're advertising is to lower taxes so I I I just really don't understand that we're advertising low taxes but at the same time we're saying we need to go out and borrow money I just wanted you to expl yeah no I think I think the easy way to explain it is you know as I've talked to Mr rivall the manager is not intended to result in a a millage rate increase right as we ratchet down the millage right we want to capture capacity in The Debt Service side and so at the end of the day you we you know I think look we've got a lot of um deferred needs I mean I think a lot of what's on the list is our deferred project needs we're not um that we just haven't taken advantage of and so I think we can we can do these things and not put it all on the shoulders of the taxpayers I mean you know Miss fiser is right we could redevelop this as a single purpose public space but that's going to cost money right part of the reason we're pursuing a public private partnership is because we're trying to basically monetize some of the value the dirt but we could ask the public to issue debt right and pay for the the full cost of the the improvements the replacement improvements that's an option I don't think that's an option that would necessarily succeed right if we put it on the ballot but for for these other things that we've got we where I think we have emerging needs right we've got aging Bridges we've got aging culverts right we really don't have a a predictable pot of money right to make those Investments as they rise and I struggle to defend our inability to do things right because we just haven't planned for the long term and so I just think this part of long-term planning um you know as we talk about the budget going into the next fisal year I think we should be talking about you know when we lower the millage do we want to authorize seek authorization for a certain amount of debt I'm not saying we're going to go to market in March of 2025 but we have that opportunity right and we can make advances to reduce the overall rate uh but maybe keep some of it the ability to keep some of that in reserve by going to Market and borrowing to meet needs right would have been nice to have an authorized Bond when we discovered that that bridge on 63rd Court was you know was in in in poor shape right because we could have rep prioritize some projects or and you know set aside a couple million dollars to do their expense as opposed to have to go hat inand to the legislature and try to piece meal together $250 $400,000 plus all the design costs that we're outlaying uh and not be able to respond to those emerging needs because we just haven't done an assessment of what the condition of our infrastructure is so I think we're doing analysis on the roadways we probably need to do with respective facilities I think commissioner guy is right as we grow we're going to need additional facilities Parks Etc um I think a conversation about how we're going to pay for it right which is always a question we've had people spent money designing improvements we had that conversation in the context of placem I think we need to be prepared to understand what it's going to mean and how we budget all that as we kind of set priorities for the next fiscal year yes sorry I'll go back to I still don't understand why we're advertising lowering taxes if we're short on money we're well I mean I could ask you the question why did you want to lower the millage rate for her last year yeah yeah so I mean I think it's no but I I stand but I'm not looking to borrow money you follow me I'm asking you I I two ideas do not always two ideas can coexist and both can be true and so I don't think that I think you can lower the millage and borrow money and do it in a way that doesn't add to the net burden on taxpayers I I don't think that's I don't think that's an untrue statement and I stand by it here Cory I it's a little strange but I actually wanted to take this opportunity to uh talk to the vice mayor because we've had discussions in the past about our speed to be able to keep up with our downtown developing and people coming into the downtown this is the reason the mayor wanted to leave me for last because he thinks I'm the bomb but maybe not no I don't think you're the bomb maybe no but I was I was curious because you've always said you know we're just going to have to wait right we're going to have to wait for the tax money to come in from development in the downtown and I was just curious after hearing this does it give you any excitement about potentially keeping up with that development and floor is yours ma'am oh the floor is mine now okay here's here's what I think I'm gonna tackle that second because I want to talk about what was presented first and how I feel about it um I've been very vocal that it wor me to go out for a bond simply because oh I'm trying to think of the nice way um some of us are very fiscally conservative and some of us in my estimation are not in any way shape or form that I consider acceptable and so when we have a conversation about a bond in my mind in the the views that we've all expressed as a group of five I feel like it would be the same as getting a pickup truck throwing money in the back and starting to drive that money will go flying out the back of the truck and never to be seen again at the same time and it's interesting you said two things can be true at the same time at the same time I understand by looking at our city that we've neglected our city for many many many years and kuros to you being the in my estimation the only person that was fighting that tide because the things that we do see were mostly if not completely sponsored by commissioner leedman and I think that bears mentioning because if not we'd be even further behind than we are now when I look at a list of posses and I understand it's it's just something that we're we're throwing out there so we get an idea of what it could possibly look like there is only one thing that I would consider even having a conversation about getting a bond for and that would be placemaking we had plus Serbia sit there last commission meeting and say that doing the entire placemaking thing that we would be paying them a million dollars for would probably be in the neighborhood of about 25 to $30 million and we've made a commitment all of us to putting that area first and we haven't done that that has not manifested other things has that has not and I think anybody who says any different is not being real we've taken a lot of money and moved it around and for whatever reason whether it's a park a street a covert a traffic circle we have not earmarked in my opinion the money that we need to even get started in downtown so if we were to go out for any kind of bond in for me it would have to be extremely streamlined in the sense of what it would be how much we would get it for and how we imagined paying it back because if not I can see the conversation starting as yeah yeah we want you know $30 million for placemaking oh the CT we're going to take a million dollars out of there now we have 29 tomorrow it's going to be something else and something else and something else because as we know like I said and we've discussed we are running way behind the curve here but I refuse to even have a conversation about a bond that hits General items that we can continue to fight for in other ways if you're saying hey let's leverage money show me the money honey that's all I have to say about that if it's not not 100% plac making Cent trick I don't want to have a conversation on it because that is what we've said is our number one priority and the rest of City business we could try to have a conversation find money blah blah blah BL for those things so that's so I mean I think answer yeah I think it's look I I think I share the sentiment I think there's a lot of stuff on this list you know I don't I don't no and In fairness In fairness we asked you know when when this was put together correct it's just universe so I think you know but I just Give an example like why you know I would not be a fan of including an infield groomer right that's something we could pay for on a pay youo basis but I think if we're you know but certainly Hardscape improvements like the ones you're talking about are something that kind of exceed our immediate reach right I I will say take $30 million which is the figure that may have been said at that meeting we have to recognize that 30% of that's going to be built by other people right you know because you know Cadia and Sun of place are going to do a portion of sunset other developments going to do a portion of uh the city center the development here is going to rebuild the you know the sections near Sunset as well so that number is probably smaller when you start thinking about what we would ultimately have to directly invest because hopefully we're leveraging the Redevelopment to kind of get a streetcape that's consistent with the goals and aesthetic that we want right but um no I think it should be in my mind this has always been about you know hard Capital Improvement right and in my mind it's it's none of those things it's literally placemaking and if we are saying so and so we'll pay for this and so and so and so and so I think that's fabulous nothing makes me happier but then that means that we're not spending that money not we're spending that money on some so how would we in your mind if aside from playing how would we deal with you know we know we've got one CT that's already functionally uh unsound you've got two others that we're going to inspect or the same age and probably have similar deficiencies where do we come up with the revenues to now to to basically replace those those are assets that are not sexy assets that we may or may not be able to go and do a revenue bond for but why you know why would you for close that opportunity to kind of be able to deal with those things that we know that we've should have been probably putting a money you know if we were managing it for our household we know the roof last 10 years you should set aside have a syncing fund where you can put money aside to replace those things we we haven't really done that here right but I think it's fair to say that in in many ways we haven't done that across the board that's the that's the reasoning that we used for South Miami Park it's the reasoning that we used In fairness for the tennis center in Dante fael so we can we can assign that logic to any we want in this entire city except for street signs and the beautification of the par that has happened to date I I name one thing you couldn't use that logic on there isn't anything because we haven't pushed the envelope on anything but that doesn't mean that now we're just going to open a hole in a wallet and say we want x amount of money and oh by the way today I want to use it for this and tomorrow I want to use it for that and you're right the covert's not sexy it's not a fun thing to talk about and it's probably something nobody wants to give us money for well then instead of us trying to figure out how we're going to pay $25 million or $30 million for those repairs for placemaking we better start figuring out how we're going to pay $600,000 to fix a cover this year and another 600 for next year and another 600 for the following that means we're not spending it on grass or new bathrooms or new tennis center or new lights guess what I when I need a new roof and I know I'm going to need a new roof in five years I stop going to Europe on vacation and I stop St buying a new car and I I do things to save money not try and find an Avenue to spend more money when you own a business and in my mind this city is my business when I lose a revenue stream I have to find another one but it doesn't mean that when I lose this Revenue stream I'm going to dig a hole bigger for my business to fall into that I won't be able to get myself out of and that's the that's the hard those are the hard questions what are we willing to give up what are we willing to not do pull back from whatever the case may be to get those other things that might not be as sexy to fund because if we keep saying something is our number one at some point we're going to get called to the carpet for why our number one is not done I agree I don't I don't I mean that's why I brought this item because frankly it's been a year and a half and we haven't moved the needle on it you know uh we we I mean but I think for frankly it's you know there's only so much room in this budget to do things on a pay as you go basis and I think what we need to do right in terms of just projects that are critical and projects that would add a lot of value exceed our ability to do that on a recurring basis and I mean we can try to monetize every asset and I think I've been as entrepreneurial as anyone trying to bring opportunities to to monetize the value of the assets I'll use the public worksite as an example right there's a limit to how much money we can even raise out of those assets right and so you know again I think you know when we buy a house you know most of us have to get a mortgage right and we pay for that we pay for the cost of that asset right over time we don't pay it all the first day we occupy it and so I think this is kind of works the same way you know and you know there's a there's a certain amount of debt that is amount of debt that one can reasonably manage and there's debt that is wholly irresponsible we're not talking about taking I mean we're not talking about taking even close to what Mr riverol has said is kind of the best practice standard which is $385 million I don't know why we would ever need that amount of money uh but you know we're talking about you know figuring out what are the key you know the next step of this conversation is what are the key projects that we need to invest in yes ma'am can I say something to Ma and I'm gonna try the nicest way to say this give it to I I can't because what I'm thinking in my brain is inappropriate okay so you and I are having this conversation for a year and a half I've probably been a hard no in any part of this conversation so you know you go on a first date and you want to hold hands but you don't really want to touch your hand because you don't know what's going to happen you don't want to get smacked in the face I feel like we're on a second dat and you're like hey like if I'm willing to give you an inch can we have a conversation about an inch like you went from a hard no to a let's have a conversation about something specific but you're like moving the I I think we're I think we're on the same I think we're on the same page which is the next step of this conversation yeah which is one thing in my mind it's one SP one thing we're not adding we're not adding you never get you never get you never get to second base if you don't turn it around first right so but you know what I'm going to try and take third right you know see how good that outfielders arm is right so we're not you know what this isn't baseball if you're if you're trying to get crying in baseball come on if you're trying to get four out of five when you're talking about a bond right now in your mind you know you've got three but you need at least four understood and number four is going to come from somewhere on this side and so if somebody's giving you an opening to a very specific conversation as a lawyer why wouldn't you take it I am taking it but I also but I also but I but I you know I you know I I don't think and the manager has said this and we you know we made the point the last time you know in our last budget we can't turn a blind eye to what are needed outlays that go beyond placemaking and so I'm not asking you to to buy me an infu gromor right because I think we could figure out if we need it that badly we should be figure out a way to pay for it right pay for what to pay for an infiel groomer it's on on the list I'm not meaning to beat up on the item but I just think it's the example or or two new garbage trucks right more baseball analogies right exactly but you know having a conversation about a cul replacement Bridge Replacements Place making you know we've talked about we've also talked about another priority being Citywide Landscaping lighting and sidewalk improvements that we do at a ridiculously slow pace with lots of mobilization cost because we do projects that are that small we can also create economies of scale when we borrow because we can do projects that are are larger and we can mobilize one contractor and get more value for the same amount of total dollars and so I'm not talking about you know you know we can talk about any of these items on this list right I'm hoping that everything on page 15 right is paid for out of you know the Redevelopment of this property but there are things on page 14 and there are things on page 13 before it that you know go well beyond placemaking that I think are necessary improvements that the public would certainly want us to see a lot of these smaller items are a lot a lot of these are smaller items I think we can figure out a way to pay on the pay youo basis out of cash so we're not taking on uh unnecessary in have we have that whole list of items that are going to be netting us additional R I I'm I was making a list as he was talking and I came up with $67 million right but we have aund we have $135 Million worth of projects identified again I'm not saying all of them are necessary we're talking about $50 million so there's a Delta there we not you know $67 million is the aggressive estimate in those numbers right so I think there's a happy balance to be struck here and so you know I'm not I'm not looking to steal third but you know let's get to second right the mayor yes sir so the intent the intent of the presentation was just to generally look at the general obligation Bond right like but there's all I mean commissioner Leman had a good point and that's one of my points as well is that there's other ways of borrowing other ways of doing that I think what you're trying to do and correct me if I'm wrong is just seeing the different options out there yeah and the different vehicles that we can look into to do that stuff I I 100% agree and I would say that one option that you know we foreclosed and we should revisit right is is you know I'm going to use a term that probably going to make commissioner Leeman really annoyed we should have a conversation with the county about revisiting the establishment of a CRA not for general purposes agree but for spe specific purposes like you know you've highlighted the need to build up our water and sewer capacity you know so there are ways to capture incremental dollars to could buy down the cost of doing some of this stuff as well so I think there's this is just one solution It's Not the Only Solution but it's I think it's an important arrow in the quiver of City Finance to at least have at the ready to deploy right like I said we don't have to you know the city of Miami has got their Miami forever Bond it was authorized three years ago I don't think they still five years ago have they even drawn down on a Tron they haven't drawn I mean to my knowledge they have not drawn down a dollar yet we we have just kicked off the process so we can we can get the authorization doesn't mean we have to borrow right we're going to have a conversation about what we're going to borrow for right and we may start off commissioner to your point barring only for the streetscape enhancements because we know that we got to hopefully that project comes forward here and we approve something and we can comfortably estimate that we're going to see future dollars come online in three to five years but we don't want to wait to create the Dual disruption the District of a large scale construction you know marry and by then subsequent construction to actually do the improvements when the dollars are in hand for me if we are not extremely specific and don't fall to the average 32 I'm I'm unknown because I don't want to I don't want to be driving a truck with money flying out the back nobody does no one does that no one does but guess what I I like to drive behind those trucks me too yeah that would be nice if you find one let me know I'm waiting for that Brink truck with the door open called it to be like that so how do we how do we live so I think questions about the process we're good are there are do we want to have a convers I've never wanted to stay in a plane longer my life including yesterday but today I mean I I want to say yeah go ahead sir thank you so first s personal not not positive about the vice mayor no kidding when I would introd because I recruited Lisa she wasn't the vice mayor at the time for 10 years so when I introduced her at her fundraiser I said the difference between me and her husband is that is that she said yes to him the first time and it took me 10 years but it's funny vice mayor you have all these dating anal it's always a dating analogy you you know I read romance novels that's true um second mayor I'm not oos osed to the CRA as long as it's used for its intended purpose and again these are facts the county said this is South Miami had worst managed CRA it all went to overhead social programs so this isn't bias speak to the county CR it's supposed to go to infrastructure and that wasn't the ca it was just very lopsided and it was also real political football so if it was used for the correct purpose and that was one of the reasons our city was so neglected include our largest taxpayer Sunset Place um use for the right purpose absolutely I'm glad I hear that oh no absolutely but I have no regrets and I respect the people who took the hard vote and voted the correct way to Sunset the CRA so I I have no regrets that we but um yeah as long as it's used appropriately um sorry and and then another thing that we're not taking to account is all this development that's coming online again Apartments a lot of it's affordable but some some place isn't so there'll be very healthy tax revenue there it's a general obligation making my point that we can actually borrow and lower taxes at the same time right because we're we're we're hoping we're no because I think you're exactly right what's going to happen is we're going to see growth which is going to give us more operating flexibility we can reduce the millage what I don't want to lose focus on is the need to kind of invest while we're growing I'm with you and then to my point earlier in our previous Sunshine meeting about about Sunset Drive been worth more even with the development rats our parking garage should be worth a worth a lot it's going to generate exponentially more Revenue that's it be a fact or in retrospect but um what I want to get an idea of and yeah I'm biased with my priority I like what I call TPI tangible positive improvements right with the plac making and I think it's Our obligation so but some I want to get an idea from commissioner Corey if they're comfortable responding to this so they may not have an idea right now because we just started this conversation and commissioner Kai how much they want to borrow or what the what you're just a number you're comfortable with what you're thinking about maybe it's too early which is fine yeah I I assumed and I I actually appreciated the response that the vice mayor made that that we come up with a tactical plan that involves reducing what we're spending on things to be able to pay for things that we need to spend on but I feel without this tool or a tool like this we have no chance at making the improvements that we need to make while the city's developing around us so we can sharpen our pencils and find ways to pay for the culverts and things like that but our City's not going to look any different than it does now at least the city owned parts of it while the rest of the city is looking so much better so much nicer and it's a disservice to the residents so I think while we're coming up with that Tactical plan we need to figure out how we're going to allocate these tools in a way that we can keep up with those with those improvements but and of course I'd be a fan as well of sharpening the pencil figuring out a ways to pay this without I think that you have done an amazing job with one arm tie behind your back and this is the other arm so that's my hope is that we all come together and then we actually use this this tour a tool like it so that we can do what we have to do for the city has has anyone along the subject stre where the culs are complained about cut through traffic okay so just just being mindful of the time um I think we're clear on the process any any questions on process before we close that out okay yes ma'am go ahead we need to put safeguards in place if and when we decide to move forward with this so we don't end up not being mean to anybody or dising anyone so we don't end up like we did with South Miami Park where it was whether you find it right or not we're we're this just ramming this through for reasons that I still don't understand it was like it's what I want and that's what we're going to do and if you don't like it I don't care you don't want to get this you were going to do that and I don't think that's the right way and I don't want to see that happen here it wasn't in in my eyes that was definitely not the way to go when there were so many options on the table I don't want that to happen here so we need to think about What mechanisms we are putting in place as a city so we don't find ourselves there m Vice may I think your comment I I I I respect what you're saying but I think you know we also were elected to do things you know these two gentleman made a commitment on that Park I made a commitment to get things done I try to open the door and have a conversation about Al ways of financing it so we can balance managing cash right through limited borrowing to do those improvements uh I respect the fact that you and the you and commissioner Leeman for the most part are leery of making that investment because you think it's it's it's outward serving as opposed to you know citizen serving but it's it's our Park it's our asset I feel an obligation to invest in it I don't apologize for what we did I think it's still a responsible investment um you know ultimately people will pass judgment on what we did or not in the future I think here you know my style has not been I think it's fair to say to be someone who tried to Ram anything down anyone's throat even today on an item I've been pushing for a year say I understand well there are things you know but but let's just talk about that I ched that item over a year ago right I waited till today I finally call call the question on it so I think I found I tried to find ways and provide opportunity where everybody gets their say and we tried to I was open to a modification she didn't want it you know I you know can respect the person we're trying to rec recognized so that's why I called the question but I was open to the modification and would happily support it she just didn't want to be honored that way for whatever reason it's not there's there's a real difference in the way mayor Robina handled it versus mayor price well in in any in any event I and and we don't in any event but the point is I I don't think you know the characterization of that item is particularly fair that all said the point of this exercise is to try to build consensus around a series of projects that we think we need to fund that are going to support our future growth and development again I don't need this to be a Piata right I want to see us you know invest in things where we can leverage money in terms of hard infrastructure because there are those opportunities I think right now you know to me you know there's we don't have a credit rating my frustration with that the state is the the State of Florida has a AAA credit rating right and we live through the best debt Market probably In Our Lifetime and we kept paying off debt with cash right when you know what we're doing is your financial advise our CFOs said is why would I repay right refinance that debt when I'm borrowing at one and a half and getting 5% on cash right I want to manage that's ainer it is but but I say that that we have the opportunity to borrow on very good terms right today and I want to open up that opportunity because it's going to basically be cheaper than if we paid for it as you go right because that $9 million that's sitting above our our our Surplus is the only place we can go to do some of the stuff I think we need to do well I don't want to go because I don't want to take cash out of our reserves right is is actually earning us more money than if we borrowed it right so there's right now the debts debt is there's a premium spread as Mr as Mr mosall said I think we should try to take advantage of this moment as we should have tried to take advantage of the moment 20 years ago but we weren't here so let's think about the things that are going to help not only address needs but also spur feature growth right distinguish us as a city so that we create more value that's really the goal for me of this exercise and by the way I think just suggesting next steps we can close the conversation I think the next step is to work on a project list but equally importantly to commissioner K's point there are other non-ad valorum revenues that we can look at bonding the Public Works lease right PTP money and figure out what kinds of projects that are on this needs list can be funded with those dollars so we can keep this go authorization to your point as tight as possible right so we're not putting our full faith and credit on the line for everything but for the narrowest universe of things that give us the most flexibility to respond to needs and also make the Investments we all know we need that that's what I'm suggesting three yes sir three three quick things so one is your benefit and maybe most people know this but maybe some don't cities municipalities borrow at an abolute preferential rate yeah and that's how you get munis and and so forth so I mean that may be something a share for the public it's not a traditional loan municipalities borrow it at a discounted rate I don't know if people know that if they don't invest in bonds so cheaper than a 30-y year mortgage right now so that's for sure so second thing is not to bring this up I don't put words on the vice mayor's mouth but I think just trying to say is that if the number one priority is placemaking we use the same amount of money for a very controversial item that was our number one priority I think what you're trying to say is not beat up in the park I want put words in your mouth but we didn't prioritize right based on this commission's definition prioritizing we put in something controversial the other thing I want to say again this is to help you or this AR I always try to don't know if I do and not always but oftentimes um Can the money and this is a question for you Mr Mayor City attorney C or or not and city manager is can we limit it to specific projects yes can it be say it's only for the I me should there be remaining money is that I mean to the City attorney we we should develop a project list it should inform what we're going to ask to borrow now then are we bound to that we we we we are but the but a a future commission right can by ordinance if I'm not mistaken reallocate dollars right because we can't bind everyone's spending in the future am I mistaken in my explanation you're right I just want to be clear so there's categories of projects correct Public Safety Parks you can future commissions can reallocate within the category correct okay so you can't take a parts project and make it you know a new whatever so to to your point we can put guard rails around total categorical spending so we know that we're not going to you know spend more than certain amount on Parks acquisition right if your priority is placemaking but we can't say that this project is Forever immutably part of the plan because a future commission can choose to reallocate that money and could we sorry again go ahead sir well intended um can we consider it pathetically a bridge loan it's not to be a 30-year loan but can we consider it a bridge loan say upon completion Sunset Place may not happen right it's a possibility but upon completion of Sunset Place we would pay off the loan I know it's relative to where interest rates are whether or not it's a good deal but can that be done yes sir go ahead prepayment through the mayor yeah so so any Municipal Bond always has a prepayment ision so that will be structured rest assured that will be structured into the right I know that's there but I mean internally convention upon a project decis have absolutely okay yeah I mean I think we if we have Surplus cash and you know the rate is now you know um you the rate's not a premium rate there's cheaper debt we can either pay it down or refinance it certainly to save save money and continue to reduce the millage which is our I think one of our shared objectives questions to close comments what how where do we want to take this terms of next steps do we want I think you said it already you know we we need to come up with a list um you know and anything that we do I don't know why we're considering this a full business but it's not a business we we make investments to go ahead and pay other things off that's way business is done it's not always Cashes in cash goes out you make investments you borrow to make investments so let's make a list let's make a list to create what we think the investment should be and then we'll take it from there to see what Avenues what uh financing Avenues what Revenue revenues I mean revenue Avenues we have so I think that's the best way of going about this okay so I think by way next direction to staff if there's no objection if we could work on with you individually Mr manager and your staff to kind of refine a global project list if you can help us break it into funding categories you know place making Parks Parks acquisition whatever categories we think are some commonalities and then if we can get from you know Mr bosal and Mr riverol the opportunities to fund non-ad valorum and what the programmatic limitations are associated with those dollars that provide the pledge and figure out how much of those projects can be funded with those first right as opposed to a go you know uh you know I think that's how I'd like to see the information brought back to us for a conversation maybe at the end of next month if that's reasonable can well sorry to to further add I mean the city manager has gone through this exercise with several different municipalities and County I'm I'm assuming you know what what are the Avenues that you guys have borrowed what steps are taking what do we actually spend the money on or invest the money in like is that something that you've done before that we can leverage here well we certainly have a a a much narrower uh uh inventory if you will right I mean you know certainly some bigger governments may have some Revenue streamings that that we don't necessarily enjoy uh some may have an Enterprise further Solid Waste we don't you know it just comes into our our general fund um not withstanding there's some opportunities um I I I will caution all of us because I liveed this city of Miami is is using one-time revenues to pay our way out of situations U that that we just don't have the inventory you know the asset capacity to to kind of buy our way out of you know a bridge problem a Culver problem um so there are some opportunities but they're at a smaller scale uh but I think they're in order to take a look at what Revenue pledges we can make uh based on whatever revenues we have and what would be the appropriate um assets at the end of the day really it's it's going to be a matter of the priority list what is the will of this commission um you know I mean the the word neglect was used for for you know some time period period decisions that were made for whatever reasons were made um but I I the only thing I will say is we're not going to uh manage you know what's uh needed I'm not talking about you know certain nice to haves I'm talking about some of the things that we're facing just talk about culverts and bridges and some of that infrastructure those are real dollars that exceed you know our ability to pay as you go I mean that's just the reality so um uh all of these are a function of millage and borrowing and if those aren't tools we we're really going to have a difficult time if we didn't have some of these issu infrastructure issues or we had the proper money take care of it that's a big nut that we take care of but it's before us you know it's our turn of the barrel we got to deal with it and we got to figure out ways we want to continue to be aggressive of of looking for you know other people's monies right uh part of that is to have projects that that we can say hey we have this amount that could be a pledge and a shovel ready so some planning efforts are are important because it puts us in a better position to to seek money so we are we do have some Revenue opportunities uh that we can take a look at from a revenue Bond standpoint you know U they're they're going to be limited but I I think these things are not you know one one solution right I mean we got to look at multiple solutions to tackle it I I'm just telling you pay as you go is not going to be uh uh something that this City's going to be able to manage with the things that that we know and we need um so uh we want to do a combination of course but I think some of these issues that we're facing right today let's say if we we don't know what the bridge is going to be yet we got to design that right that's not going to be cheap uh and we got a couple of culverts luckily we got some pretty good news on on one of them recently so that's helpful some of it we just don't know what we don't know right we some of these studies and planning efforts and we're taking a look at our roadways and sidewalks those are sort of uh unfunded liabilities that that we just just don't know the order of magnitude because we haven't done the assessments and and we're working towards that so we're creating the infrastructure to have that information to figure out how to best match resources to to those needs um so I I um you know we'll we'll get with each of you uh to to get further direction as it relates to you know like the vice mayor has been very clear as to what she is willing to consider but each of you should share those thoughts as well and we'll try to put that together and Nar what we provided are things that are typical ideas that you would see in any city um and and and could be again these are long-term issues right we it's not we're going to do something next year two years you know these could be five six 10 years down the road that are part of this Revenue stream and tranches of of uh issuance so we'll get this feedback from you individually and then see where that you know where that comes back and then you you'll have to reconcile it again as painful as that may be uh but unfortunately the the direction that that uh we have to take is is making up for lost time and when there is neglect and you don't have proper Reserve you know that's what happens we end up with this sort of unfunded liabilities of deferred capital and deferred maintenance forget are nice to have and then you have some facilities that need to be improved um and and that takes money right so uh you know we'll get there one way or another but I I I'm the only thing I'll from an editorial standpoint you know reducing millage and I'm borrowing will will will we're going to have the same it'll be the same outcome that this city has had and and and and I say that not from a standpoint of figuring out whatever Direction you give me we're going to do the best we can to to to make it work but I'm just want us to be mindful that the same approach is going to put us uh in a heap of trouble especially with some of this infrastructure stuff that we're uncovering um so um we'll get your direction we'll start assembling that and then match that up with you know some potential ways to to get get there and then continue you continue your conversation and you'll give us a direction as you see as you see fa you know okay Madam vice mayor last comment thank you I it's actually a question for our city manager um what I would appreciate seeing is we have a a universe you just made a very important distinction where you said some are this year Sumer next year some are in 10 years some are whatever if if there's stuff that's now tomorrow next year blah blah blah I think that's the way that we collectively need to see it because if not again I'm not trying to be a jerk but I'm like why on Earth would I even be talking about buying a park space if I can't fix the freaking sidewalk like for me that's Insanity you know having the same conversation over and over again and having not a different result and so I understand what you're saying saying but when we attack this and and you said it is hey the bond will be you know in in your estimation you are in in my opinion the most expert person here of you know our group we're in trouble we're in trouble yeah well you know what you get paid the big bcks no um to to look at that list critically and say we should be able to cover this with existing Revenue we won't be able to cover this even in the next million years and then give it to us that way because asking us for priorities is like asking a toddler what they want from Toys R Us I want it all but I can't afford it don't insult the toddlers no I don't insult don't insult the toddlers yeah right yeah vice mayor i i i duly noted the take the example of uh acquisition of of uh Green Space for example right doesn't mean that it's tomorrow is there anything uh requiring us is there any you know law we're going to break no uh from a national stand Point uh you know there's some metrics about 10 acres per thousand residents so that's a sort of a National Standard that the National Park and Recreation so if we if we use that as a guide obviously and we're about 48 50 acres uh you'll see you know where and and it doesn't have to be 10 it could be seven but you'll see so is that an aspirational thing is that you know saying okay for us to provide better service do we need that tomorrow or no of course not and that's why these B Bond programs are over a substantial time period uh so I agree that if we're going to have that conversation and we're talking about a bridge a culvert some of the infrastructure you know placemaking to improve you know our economic engine yeah relative to that that's not maybe a two-year thing but it could be within seven years we may want to acquire additional space to to sort of improve on on Green Space you know per or we may want to work with the school system to improve their Green Space and not acquire it right just to kind of create more inventory that way so so so to your point there are things that are like hey this is you know tomorrow and four four weeks from now and 3 months from now I mean we're going to be facing that with culverts and and bridges I mean that's coming our way um and other things are but I I think it is important to have this sort of aspirational conversation because it is over a long period and so if it is a point that's on the list is to match some need whether it's 6 months from now or five years from now uh and that's just good planning I mean at the end of the day it doesn't mean that we have to do it it just means that there's a game plan so I I agree that for us to try and if we're going to borrow to borrow something that's going to take care of some immediate needs and it's foreseeable and it's tangible um and it's in in in concert with some priority right that that we don't Le frog you know buying an acre a lot somewhere to have a pocket park and yet we can't fix our Bridge right and so no argument there from that standpoint okay so in terms just to to close out if we can March 19th is that fair enough to have some a follow-up item hopefully with some further analysis from staff on feedback from us on needs it's a regular meeting yeah so just Target that and then bring back capacity by using other non-ad revenue streams to possibly create uh and maybe make it a Time certain conversation we can yes if we'd like yeah we'll put up we'll put Mr bosel at the front of the list vice mayor what the city management mention is you have to stay in the commission to see everything through you're so funny okay with that I think we have one item if we can get up a quick yes just I yes yes talk about talk about priorities I do not I can do this in 45 minutes or I can do this in five minutes thank you Mr thank you I'm I'm walking out of here in 10 minutes you're welcome to leave so it better be over then before then well we not going to ask for a motion to extend the meeting five five minute abs so I'm here to provide you a presentation of our parking program our fantastic parking program um so I'm going to start off by telling you what dictates and we're what when we're saying parking we're talking about chapter 15a of our code which talks about and provides all the guidance that we use to enforce our parking program skip that got okay okay so here's our fees and our fee is and you see it's $3 an hour we have it broken down in half hour hours $150 per hour which in essence is $3 an hour I put on there um the hourly rates of our neighboring cities you can see from Coral Gables is 350 to $4 in certain now certain places University of Miami which is a university city of Miami Surf Side um we're in the ballpark of at $3 when comparing us to neighboring municipalities we're relatively either on the low or just about in line with them our monthly is also in actually yep I'm sorry I like to say something we Cho you chose the most expensive municipalities I mean the most affluent municipalities Miami Beach Sunny Isles Bal Harbor Surfside I mean not the city of Miami parking program right is the only one that's that's missing if I'm correct that they just started and dado just started their program and they're in line with our hourly rate so they're just kind of new to to the parking but not every municipality or jurisdiction we are fortunate enough to have probably one of the top five definitely top within the probably the largest four between MPA Coral Gables Miami Beach and then us we're probably the largest parking program which and you I'll get to that slide soon enough which shows that is what is helped us maintain the millage so low it is our greatest asset and our and our greatest economic development detraction for downtown yes yes but okay keep going don't listen to us 3.9 16% of our general fund Revenue that's our budgeted what we have we're in line uh we're monitor we constantly are monitoring month month after month our uh our revenue and we're in line we're about 3% over um an expected Revenue which is fantastic um our expenses to maintain this parking infrastructure 624 in operating um expenditures which includes our flat fee for La parking to do our enforcement Collections and maintenance of our system and then some other other expenditures related to it credit card fees and then our capital expenditure for this fiscal year we budgeted 260 um those are just general improvements we've used up to dat about $50,000 to do that that major infrastructure Improvement that we needed to do can you go back one slide of course thank you okay 3.9 um and I could provide this we just finalized it that's why we can provide this okay go back forward that's fine okay so going forward uh that's our expenditure to maintain this parking program um parking enforcement hours that's something that has been discussed a lot um our we operate our parking as per code if you're parking one of our spaces it's a 24hour you're supposed to pay for your your parking at any moment that you pay that you park in that system however we only have parking enforcement sorry we that's why I did it that color um we only enforce 15 hours a day except for Friday and Saturday which we go to 2 a.m. which is the the two days that we go for 17 hours that's how the other times we're not enforcing it's just it's what we found to be the best operating system for us in our in our area and that's why when we bid out the contract every year we put these hours of what we want to enforcement perfect ex so we wanted to look at citations citations and this was timec consuming because we use Miami dat County's citation system which is a very uh as400 based system so the data comes in we have to take out print out and then kind of put it manually that's just we work with the clerk of courts and that's their system um so we provided one week of when we cited you can see in the mornings our low periods lunch and uh and dinner times um we broke it down into three phases morning afternoon and you have one week and you have another week following and they're pretty consistent um on this previous week we lost an employee so you could see we we were a little bit short um or didn't site as much as the following week uh we are now fully staffed together and just just to be clear these are citations for the on street parking inventory only on street off Street and parking garage okay the whole the whole Gambit and can do you have corresponding Revenue numbers by the hourly window by the hourly window I do not okay is that something is that something we can get yeah that's our pay by phone I I you know look what I'm what I'm yeah what I'm what I'm curious to see is and what I wanted this presentation was you know look there's there's some times here frankly where I think it's self-defeating to be citing people's just say 10:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. right there's very little parking demand for the on Street infrastructure 10 yeah there's very little demand for the on Street infrastructure you said 10 a.m. sorry 10 p.m. my apologies it's late but there's very little demand I I would imagine there's very little relative demand for that inventory but we are basically taxing people for staying later in the district right and so um I just want to figure out whether we should be modifying our enforcement operation right so it's not to give people a Parting Gift of a of a parking ticket when they're leaving a nice dinner right in one of our restaurants in in the Town Center so that's why I'd love to see beyond this what the revenues look like because I would I I I do want to make sure that we're enforcing during peak hours when there's high demand for those spaces but if there's not high demand right all we're doing is it's a punitive tax so just yeah high level numbers that's 110 citations out of the 965 so it's roughly a magnitude of 15% that we're charging after hour but we've got three $3.95 million in revenue on $989,000 in expenses so I think it's it's it's capacity that we we have now I'm not disagreeing with you Sor yeah I know I know sorry the you said we how we have 4 million in Revenue yeah right and you said we have about a million in expens I I got 624 in operating expenses and another 260 in capital yeah but wait we got to be fair correct me if I'm wrong 660 you're absolutely correct me roll here 624 yeah okay 624 and this this is laz's rate putting money into the garage and parking spaces we'd have to do regardless I wouldn't consider that an expense I mean you have to do that regardless no I'm not saying it's not a justifiable expenditure we we have to make that investment in the asset not that point but we would cut we would cut laz's no no what I'm saying is we have $3.9 million in in revenues and roughly a million dollars in expenses so right but or the operating and correct me if I'm wrong but the vendor contract is$ 625 right yeah no no no the vendor contract is 300,000 right I'm sorry but the the parking sorry the parking right all in is six and a plus in a quarter Ian we have be security cameras but this is all for parking it's not infrastructure to get to the nine that's the parking garage maintaining parking spots Mr rivall just to so we understand the expense side am I right it's about a million dollars 624 plus the 260 in capital expenditure so operating 624 260 for this year was our capital the expense side but to to commissioner lean's point we got you know getting back to the other point we got to routinely invest in these assets to keep from having the Deferred maintenance which leads us to need to borrow money right so you know right now what I'm seeing is in this program right as a standalone Silo I don't know if this captures all of our staff time internally or not and other miscellaneous you know indirect support the city provides the parking operation it's roughly a surplus right in quote so $2.95 million right okay so I understand it it's a subsidy to the general fund no question there the point for me having this conversation is at what cost right and I think the cost is people's perception South Miami in terms of their convenience to come here and Shop in our city is not a good one I mean this is the one thing we're known of is s of place is a mess right and parking there is insufferable it's the enforcement right so again I think it has an has an impact a cost impact on how people want to perceive come and utilize the district and so I just want to have a conversation with my colleagues should we think about you know doing enforcement slightly differently or maybe reducing ring rates we can do the same amount of enforcement but maybe there is we actually reduce our rates that we're not at the upper end of the rate tier but we're at $250 or $2 an hour right putting us somewhere because we're trying to again induce activity into the district I don't I move to extend the meeting no I'm leeting okay let's move to extend it for no more than 10 minutes second okay can okay okay no problem so we have a motion a second is there any objection to the motion other than we have one one no in in in commissioner and vice mayor Bo each have a good night hi guys s Mr I'm sorry if you want to finish your your presentation um so we have we just gave our citation how much we we we we site um on a monthly basis you'll see a taper off in November and December uh which obviously is because of our holiday programs things of that nature 1.5 is the gross amount that is not what we collect that's excluding what we pay the county and all that it's roughly about maybe 700,000 that we actually of that 1.5 so this breaks down how much our parking inventory we have 1,168 parking stalls that includes the 425 or 440 that we have in the parking garage um we broke it down in and this is for all of fiscal year 2023 this is confirmed um you can see in the parking garage um and we we rank the areas those locations pay by phone locations so for example number one our our busiest spot 73rd Street which right now is is it's a challenge because obviously of the construction that we have kasaka brings a lot of people that stop for get coffee and they'll pay for an hour and they'll leave after 20 minutes and then you know so we we make it's just a very high-end um Revenue producing location followed by uh Sunset Place and you'll see and you'll see there where it's going to be different moving this fiscal year now with McDonald's that's where you have purav that's just sort of new it's not taken really fully into account in 2023 that number was going to be higher uh you also have 41st which is Bird Road which is outside of the of the downtown that's also going to be producing because of what that new restaurant because that building was unoccupied for much of 2023 so we in summary on this page just so you can see we have a total of 818 818 spaces over in downtown which makes up about 70% for fiscal year 23 it made up about 83% of the revenue in in uh in the bottom which is the outside of downtown made up of mostly the hospital Bird Road those are two other areas outside uh it generated about 177% of that revenue and those are 30% that is going to be a lot different and I think you'll see in one of the slides um that's going to be a lot different moving for fiscal year 24 um Now That Bird Road is functioning and it's been it's going to be functioning for a whole year and you see the downtown we took it into our forecast in the budget that we knew it was going to be a drop off in downtown because of of this construction so uh as you can see in in we made 3.4 million we forecasted for this year 2.9 because of the construction which we knew was going to limit people to visit the area so the 3% that you said were above that's based on our forecast our forecast that's correct so we we're in line right now with what we forecasted which is pretty good um I'm just going to go into uh parking there was a question of one $150 cents versus $3 in the parking garage we discussed that and we just did that in mid November the only period that we can actually compare apples to apples is January 3rd of last year vers to 31st to this year because in November we shut down on weekends which is the highest producing time for that parking garage because of the construction and then after that we went straight into the holiday so to compare apples and apples um in summary and in the bottom you'll see it in bold we had 256 more transient which is what the $3 would affect this transient uh transient transactions and 778 more in Revenue when compared to that period right can you do a because a dollar amount doesn't help can you do a percentage basis how much more we received I don't know where the numbers are I could do it correct about $8,000 difference in Revenue correct what percentage increase from no percentage because 8,000 means nothing to me without knowing the I can get you that I don't want to talk my because that's how you compare the difference I don't know what we what we receive one year what we receive the next year so for the month so for that period we received it's right here $21,000 okay I see it now you cannot use the 15,000 the reason you can't use the 15 is because that's that's Avalon uh bay which is now renting spots from us right in that particular month they actually rented for two months so that fee has to be divided in two um but in essence we went from 21,000 we went up to 28,000 000 so 7,7 be so um all right and then we have some proposed changes things that we're hoping to implement soon which is uh we're going to implement free 10-minute only spaces eight of them were converting paid parking spaces this is a phenomenon because of the delivery or pickup Uber Eats Postmates and it's just become a huge part of I think Co is what expedited that people are very they they grown comfortable in ordering from Uber Eats Postmates door Dash so and we're seeing an issue where these door Dash and these uh people that are picking up are just leaving their cars in the middle of the street so we're trying to create a space where they can park and we will Monitor and it's free you par there for 10 minutes and then leave and that way hopefully that'll free up people that are just pulling up and and stopping traffic uh modify the valet we did that already for for bro for Bird Road in Bird Road we actually have a valet fee we want to incorporate that fee um in the downtown area um centralized we've met with the valet we've looked at it in many different ways centralized valet just currently the way that our traffic patterns are will not work um but opening it up for valet under that fee structure for those Bays would work and prioritize marketing and that's prioritize our so many bus businesses people don't come to park they don't they come to visit restaurants that are open perfect example is Bird Road we had parking spaces nobody visited them we had no businesses there because the building was being remodeled after the fire so that's one thing we were now uh parking garage Revenue obviously ideas uh We've tossed around a few ideas um antenna Towers uh leasing it out on the roof to put antenna Towers there's uh diamonds is a known company that does that so uh like a third party that works with the Sprints the T-Mobil all of those um hers Amazon Locker we have corners of the garage which you can you can't park because it's just they're dead spaces it's in every garage um turning them into Amazon lockers uh host a car club once a month become part of their regular rotation and dynamic pricing at certain times when there's peak times we can increase the rates and times when it's low volume we can reduce the rates and that's that's my presentation okay commissioner thank you so just uh two points and then I'd like to have a conversation which we can have afterwards so what one point is in terms of the the um areas where there's no parking which um Mr riverol is referring to to use an Amazon Locker those used to be part of the leases with um with TCO craft and other restaurants to use for dry storage to store liquor in there and so forth so um those are actually um those are dedicated spaces now which I believe you're suggesting to activate um so point is before they were used they already set aside they were used for say a similar use um the other thing is if we generate uh $33 a day times 365 days um times uh eight spaces that's 96,000 that's $100,000 so just be mindful of that you know for these pickup and drop offs um you know ride sharing food delivery you know it's $100,000 it's significant and we're talking about raising money now the conversation I want to have which we can do at the end is I know I haven't grown up but I used to growing up or when my parents were trying to get me to grow up I used to live down Red Road in The Gables so this was our downtown in South Miami and this a philosophical conversation which I think commissioner Corey will like South Miami always had the reputation of ticketing and you get tickets within a minute and so forth so it had that reputation 40 years ago at least but right perception's reality but it's not the reality we used to give a 10-minute grace period now we give a 15minute grace period our parking rates aren't any more than anywhere else and if we wanted to be even more economical online with a city that's less of a draw it would only be 50 cents and $250 and $3 is not going to be The Driver influence anyone from coming here so the question is is and this is the conversation we're going to have later if commission wants is why do we have that reputation because it's not the reality you have a 10-minute grace period now it's 15 before you give a ticket I think I think it's a good it's a good question I've tried to figure out it could be the history I think it's I think it's I think it's a history why do we have the why do we have the reputation that there's not adequate parking there isn't there is a garage that literally sits you know 80 plus per vacon so it's not accurate but it is the perception well yeah we do have that reputation but it's not accurate so it's just is it because of the way the city was I mean that's a reputation management thing that we can look into as well that's a marketing thing that's no that's but but I think I think the broader question for me is is this right we are we had a conversation we're struggling to find revenues to improve what is our number one priority I submit to you that I would rather take this if we're going to keep this Revenue model right let's take half of the Surplus and rather than support the general fund let's reinvest that money to do capital projects in in the town center right a million dollars of of that money could leverage $7 million of improvements rough math just using our existing Debt Service Matrix right just make sure you understand mayor that whatever this is just plan devil's advocate here for you whatever money you take away from the general fund are projects that we can't fund no well well projects or whatever CIP or or it's not a Debt Service millage decrease that we don't a millage decrease that we don't give for the next year right so I think you know the the problem I have is that we have we all know that you know commissioner lean says it's better anyone the goose that lays the golden egg for this town center or is for the city is our town center right it's the economic engine that drives our adums it's what keeps you know our milit rate low generally the problem is that we have become very dependent I would say on a very regressive fee structure to help do that and I'm just wondering whether we can kind of lessen our dependence even it's a half a million dollars right as a Target right so that we improve not only the Optics right but also take some take take that money repurpose it and put it back into physical improvements which also change the perception about the place as well so um that's why I wanted to of highlight the conversation we can forego enforcement right at certain hours right because it's you know you know reinforces that perception or we can decide we'll live with that perception but we're going to change it through investing in the district right but I think we have to do one or the other if we're going to help nudge this place into a place of prosperity because right now it's it's receding to my question I think you hit the on the head mayor and true commissioner Cay when people come they see the condition I think that's why they take issue with the parking and the enforcement because right it's not that desirable so that place make be a difference it's just we you know I think we expect owners to invest in the physical plan of their property right all we're doing right now is using this as a value extraction area and we're not reinvesting in the physical plan of it so I think this is the worst value extraction place because it's not it's it's the most regressive way to tax people um and it's the one that gives from a Public Relation standpoint the greatest amount of negative engagement and so I just ask the question how do we want to try to rightsize the dynamic to deal with the perception and the reality that we need to invest more in this District y yeah I think I'm a huge fan of reinvesting the ill gained profits there back into the city so that we can we can improve the the placemaking infrastructure and we continue to do that that was one of the complaints of the downtown Advisory Board was that we keep taking money out of the downtown and and bringing other places I love the ideas for the parking garage I had thought of a couple my own I looked at the fee structures for monthly rentals and other places and thought maybe we can make ours a little more competitive when I spoke with someone from the downtown Advisory Board they wanted us to make Fridays free there or something just ideas of ways we could do more specifically with the garage but I I I wouldn't be as big of a fan of really like reducing reducing reducing parking rates as much as reinvesting it in into the downtown but those kind of promotional ideas I'd always be a fan of it I mean I think the problem is perfectly encapsulating this slide which is this number that's 16% of our Revenue comes from parking revenue and and I'd say that you know what a fifth of that is from citations right it's a needed evil no I know it's it keeps it keeps the it keeps the we don't site it just people won't pay no I I I understand but there's also we we also do site when there's no Demand right and so that's and that's the part that reinforces the negative perception and so you know I look I I I sent you in the manager the text of the photo of someone's window on Christmas Eve right on Sunset Drive at 4:30 there's nobody on the street right I've come out of restaurants at 11:00 at night I was the last person to Clos down the location you spend an extra $50 you know on drinks or an appetizer and you walk out there's a $36 ticket on your windshield and there's not a person parked in all the the Stalls next to you it just kind of it's I think I think it's a self-defeating exercise that we're engaged in because we haven't owned up to the fact that we're hooked on the revenue and we got toig but so I just want to again keep pounding away at this issue so that we go into July and we're talking about priorities and budgeting we're thinking about how we reduce our dependence on this number if we're not going to reduce our dependence on it then let's figure out a way to reinvest it so it creates more value for the city so thank you for putting together this presentation any last questions or comments okay with that uh it park it with that I think we have no further business so we'll stand Jour thank you get a ticket yeah we got to get out of here e e e e