away I must have longer arms must have long arms but the nanc the seats the floor uh good evening everyone I'd like to call this meeting to order it is Monday March 18th 2024 at 5:34 p.m. this meeting is being live streamed and recorded for storage and viewing on the district's YouTube Channel please note that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided in the following manner that written notice was sent from the office of the secretary of the board at 5:57 p.m. on March 2nd that said notice was sent via email to Maplewood and South Orange Township clerks and the editors of the news record Star Ledger tap into Som and Village Green may I have a roll call please Village president Shea colum here trustee Jen Greenberg here trustee Karen Hilton here mayor Nancy Adams here Deputy Mayor Jamaine C here Committee Member Deborah angle here board president Coe tford here first vice president Arun B lamani here thank you and uh we also have our uh Municipal alternates with us trusty Jen Greenberg um and committeeman Dean dafis and please let the record reflect that trusty Bobby Brown from South Orange is now in attendance please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all so for members of the public I apologize for this there has been a slightly modified agenda that permits an executive session um to put this into context if you recall from the last Board of school estimate meeting uh terms such as litigation were raised and settlement uh terms that members of the municipal part ERS were not aware of as it related to Board of Education matters in that regard we have requested that our partners pull us into executive session to give a brief overview of some of the things that they can share with us regarding these matters um specifically related to the fields and um they have been very accommodating so while this resolution says up to 60 Minutes I could assure you it will certainly not take 60 minutes we know that you are here we appreciate that and we will be as prompt as possible with that said we have a resolution for executive session uh whereas while the senator Byron M be open public meetings Act njsa 10 colon 4-6 requires all meetings of the South Orange Maplewood Board of school estimate to be held in public sets forth nine types of matters that may be lawfully discussed in executive session without the public being permitted to attend and whereas the board has determined that one issue is permitted by njsa 10 412b to be discussed without the public in attendance and shall be discussed during the executive session to be held on Monday March 18th 2024 at approximately 5:30 p.m. any matter which by express provision of federal law state statute or rule of Court shall be rendered confidential or excluded from the public discussion the nature of the matter described as specifically as possible without undermining the need for confidentiality is attorney client privilege whereas the length of executive session is estimated to be up to 60 minutes but it won't be after which the public meeting of the board of school estimate shall reconvene and proceed with business where formal action will be taken now therefore be it resolved by the South Orange maplehood Board of school estimate will go into executive session for the above stated reason only be it further resolved that the board of school estimate hereby declares that this is that its discussion of the aforementioned subjects will be made public at at a time when the public Public's interest in disclosure is greater than any privacy or governmental interest being protected from disclosure may have a motion to go into executive session move we have a motion from mayor Adam seconded by a deputy mayor kripe all those in favor please say I I I any opposed okay folks we will be as brief as possible thank you so much uh for your patience e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e under discussion were you expecting to give the presentation under that okay all right good evening everyone I'd like to reconvene this special meeting of the board of school estimate again it is Monday March 18th at 6:04 p.m. um I don't believe we need another roll call all members are still present uh we are now moving on to the next item which is a discussion we have a presentation from Mr Burnside the business administrator Mr Burnside please take it away thank [Music] you here thank you very thank you very much this evening um I'm going to do a I'm going to start off with a construction update so over the next couple of slides we're going to go over the completed projects for each school I won't read through all the details of each school but please notice a couple of recurring projects across the schools including but not limited to HVAC upgraded electric service new classrooms and renovated classrooms first up is is the Seth boy Elementary School with uh six classrooms and six and we removed six portable classrooms here is a uh a picture of the fancy new boilers and the new addition and the HVAC units in the classrooms next up is tusin with four new classrooms and we removed four portable classrooms that's the addition and the new playground next is Delia Balton five new classrooms I'm sorry 10 new classrooms nice new boilers next is Clinton remember this one was in two stages that's the main office where it says Clinton Elementary new boilers next up is the South Mountain Elementary and here's the annex and Underhill field they got the new turf field home and visitors bleachers new Press Box and a new electric service upgrade and here's Marshall with 16 new classrooms currently under construction and montros they're scheduled to uh start in the summertime with a new HVAC system and also we are now moving to Columbia High School which is under construction with 10 new science labs and the new Commons new casework was just delivered this past week and Maplewood Middle School construction's going to be beginning this month we're starting off with a spe statement in the evenings and these are uh pictures of the old boilers and the old controls for the boilers vast difference and if uh South Orange middle schools Ed we could begin Construction in March and also well we're going to have the new service electric service upgrade is is scheduled to start in March anyway and come on my apologies are locked up there we go south Orange Middle School okay so here's the current state of the high school girls locker rooms and here's the concept budget for the girls locker rooms uh this slide shows the uh the budget for the uh the girls locker rooms would be approximately $2,327 600 I know that's hard to read up there here's the ritzer field rendering with two softball fields and to put things in perspective the next slide shows the original approval and the two softball fields overlaid you can see the uh highlighted area is the original multi-purpose field now we have the turf versus graph field comparison this shows the comparison of uh the turf versus the grass field installation and maintenance The Upfront cost for turf fields is higher than grass fields but over time the cost of maintaining grass fields is higher than for turf fields and this is where he shows the estimated cost per hour of usability artificial would be $710 and natural grass would be $20.64 so this is a snapshot of construction costs to dat I'm just going to give a quick explanation of how this chart calculates the construction total project total and total expended the construction total is equal to the construction cost and cons and contingency the project total is the combination of the construction total and soft costs together I know this is kind of hard to follow the project total column and that's going to be to the right middle of the original projection budget header you can see the total is approximately $157 million this this is the original amount of the board of school estimate approved back in 2019 the Construction contract column under the expended header represents the original award to the contractors the total expended column which is the far right under the expended header is the sum of the Construction contract plus change ERS plus the soft cost the soft cost amounts are non- construction expenses examples of this are architect fees and construction management fees you can see the far right column labeled over and under budget that shows which specific construction project is over or under budget this is where we see the bottom number of $4.5 million of unencumbered or unspent funds the beginning of the projects at the top came in under budget that would be the Clinton Balon and Seth Boyen tuskin projects and then the Seth boen I'm sorry the South Mountain and South Mountain and Underhill field projects came in over budget even though the high school came in under budget the scope was scaled back to afford the project and the Marshall and montros and mwood middle school have come in over budget as well this is the remaining scope of work this represents the total of all the projects being requested at a total of 29 m992 765 next is the impact tax impact so the estimated tax impact of all the projects for Maplewood is approximately an additional $16.25 per year the estimated tax impact on South Orange is $123 and 82 cents per year I know as quick and fast I know we not much changed since the last time we did it other than a lot of uh pictures and we did have some new tax analysis and as far as the tax analysis goes um we did get the assessed home values the new upgrade U um adjusted ones from the reevaluation however we're still waiting on the next net valuation taxation from the county which we typically receive in May and that's when we could calculate the final tax impact all right thank thank you very much Mr Burnside I appreciate the pictures also um I know that you have some members of the team here would you like to introduce them and have them come uh sit at the yes we got scottl table we've got Scott Downey from spel Architects and Kathy tagula from epic construction management can you repeat the names one more time yeah I've got Scott Downey from spel Architects Mr Downey okay and Kathy tartaglia from epic construction management tartaglia tartaglia tartaglia thank you both for joining us is there anything that you would like to add to the presentation that Mr Burnside just presented and just know our audience is all about more is more so um no not necessarily we're here to answer your questions and uh certainly happy to do that so why don't we start with um colleagues if it's okay I know we got a lot of concerns about South Orange middle school and the cost increases associated with that could you go into a little bit more detail of what happened uh throughout this process that that impacted that project specifically so the impact on the cost is not specific to that project except for the fact that that project was last chronologically in in the order so what's transpired here as uh Mr Burnside and indicated the initial projects bid on target um our our construction process has spaned several years and we ran into kind of smack into the postco impacts on the construction Market which we have seen not just here but everywhere and that has included quickly escalating costs it's included lead time issues specifically with HV equipment electrical equipment things like that you know Transformers that used to take a couple months to get are now taking a year and a half to access and you know so those impacts have all uh played out over the life of these projects so the initial ones that bid before that really took hold were were on target But as time passed the uh the cost escalated on us and that's that's um why uh we're in the situation in terms of the additional cost so the middle schools were scheduled last in that chronology and and that is why the cost impact is associated with that school but there is not uh a cost impact specific to the scope at that school okay thank you colleagues if we can just it's it's noted as discussion but let's keep to questions right now and continue going around with questions um of the board professionals and their experts and then we'll move into more discussions um mayor Adams thank you mayor Callum thank you is that the am I the to call you that um the turf versus Grassfield comparison I don't know if this is for you or or for Mr Burnside but it omits uh storm water insulation dealing with the storm water and detention Basin that's not included in the installation at all and In the comparison numbers we have yeah understood so the the intent the louder got get closer how's that okay sorry about that um so the comparison was kind of focused on differences between the two if you will both installations would have storm water work that would be associated with um their installation and the construction costs are inclusive of that storm water work so it was not broken out as a line item but it is in there and the construction costs that are estimated for each type of field and when we're told that the turf would be overall Cost Less in maintenance so that it would end up costing less we're talking about the life of an artificial turf field like 8 to 10 years or are we talking about the life of natural grass or we what lifetime are we talking about sure so that comparison took into consideration a 24e cycle so we assumed um we did that because the lifespan on the turf surface is in the you know 12year range so we wanted to include two lifespans so obviously you have a cost 12 years out which we had reflected there for the replacement of that Turf surface and that's why the 24-year period was chosen to compare the grass to the turf um how long did the one at um that that was just replaced at Underhill last so I'm I don't I don't actually know how many how many years that was in place here I'm not sure about that one either 12 years or less I'm going to say it was approximately that but I apologize I don't know the exact the exact just because you're basing numbers on this so I'm you know well the 12 the 12E cycle is a general understanding when it comes to I've heard 8 to 10 so it's going to it's going to vary obviously with the installation but some are longer some are shorter and so the estimated Turf replacement for one cycle is 600,000 in your estimation yeah I believe that's correct why is it so much lower what then so when the when the turf replacement occurs at that point you're replacing the turf is actually several components if you will there's the drainage underneath there's a base layer and then there's what we'll refer to as the the carpet or the turf layer the turf layer the top layer is the only thing that requires that replacement the base construction you'll get two possibly more life cycles on it okay that's all I have at this moment thanks there we go um just a followup to Mayor Adams um could you just go over uh kind of your expertise I this is the second time we're meeting you uh you you've been through all this with the board of education but I think it's helpful for the public to know who are these individuals who are answering questions and sharing information with our community so before we go into more questions can you can you kind of share your expertise and your role in this project certainly so uh I'm an architect I'm an architect with the spea group we were the Architects that have been involved with all the projects um specifically when it comes to the fields um I I would not classify myself as an expert in turf or drainage or those other components there are others that are involved in the team we have a civil engineer that's working on the project and so forth um my experience with Turf is that we've had many clients who have uh done such installations over the years and that's with grass fields and turf fields Alik okay um ma'am I'm also an architect but I don't practice architect for you guys I the program manager for the construction management team um and I help with the budgeting dayto day um we have a site managers at each of the projects that watch the jobs each day and I kind of oversee the whole program okay thank you and Mr Downey that's correct right so Under the Umbrella of the architect of record is you are working with all the subcontractors whether it's civil engineering or whether it's um a Wetlands delineator those type of other professionals as a part of what we're considering all filter through spel and then you are the public face of what comes forward to the Board of Ed and board of school estimate correct is that accurate yes correct okay did you um just following up on mayor Adam's questions specific to the turf um the board of school estimate and the Board of Education have received a lot of questions regarding the wetlands designation from the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection um in fact I think we were all surprised to see that there was uh a designation on the website had it not been for the community none of us would have known that and we didn't know that in 2019 either I know that there has been back and forth between uh your company and also the business administrator to look at this can you talk the community and the board of school estimate members through the process of what it means to be a designated Wetland why in your determination you believe it does not meet the criteria and lastly whether or not a letter of interpretation will be required um as it relates to this project in the district so the when the classification was identified we had our uh civil engineers look into it um their assessment looking at information mapping information and so forth was they they felt it was an outdated classification it may had been designated that way at one point and just never uh changed so to check that they went out and they did some soil sampling and looking around they look at um the types of vegetation and so forth in the area they found nothing to suggest that the wetlands classification uh should have been or should remain in place so what that would mean is that the as the project advances it would be a administrative process with the DP that would probably result in a letter that would clarify the classification on the site okay and Mr Burnside I believe you had indicated to the Board of Education members and the board of school estimate that if that is what's recommended and required that the district would follow all the steps necessary as outlined by the D and with respect to the letter of interpretation and the process that happens with that absolutely okay thank you for that um more questions uh of course committee man daffis uh I have one question at the moment uh and that relates to uh the budget as you shared it Mr Burnside earlier during your presentation have you accounted for everything that you possibly could account for and I'm specifically um interested in whether or not in the final Delta numbers that you shared um and the tax impact that you presented us for each town if you have accounted for the most recent additional state aid that our district received I think it was uh in the neighborhood of $1.5 million so our our state aid I believe was 1,253 78 um that's going to celery and health benefits and we're still on tracked to have a small but significant I mean we've got a deficit it's all the ways yeah so yes that money is accounted for are there more questions we talking about anything in particular questions yeah just questions anything just not discussion yet so my um in in some analyses that we've received from the communities some of um which were from past Board of Ed members who've analyzed everything and so I have questions regarding some of that [Music] um she says of the 157.48cm funds for projects so a lot of the projects came in under what was anticipated so where is that money going to be used if not for these projects so we need if there's 188 million unencumbered does that mean there's 18 million sitting there ready to take on some of these expanded projects I can't verify that 18 million unencumbered can you no because our she so smallo yeah we show four and a half million um that 18 million is just not accurate are you sure see I I guess my that would be my question I just I I'm not well excuse me we're you you know I know I see you well we'll get to the public comment um so why don't we why don't we sticky that I I hate sometimes you guys will be put on the spot because like I said we've received lots of comments so why don't we revisit that towards the end and if maybe while conversations are going on we can just get verification on that and um I did forward a copy of that to The District in advance of some of that analysis that was done yeah I would like to say that we just finished our annual audit they did audit our fund 30 which is this construction Bond and everything is perfect okay okay I uh board member VOD lmani is chair of fft I know you also had a chance to uh hopefully U read that email U forwarded is there anything that came out of your committee are you content with you know where we are right now and uh the encumbered funds Etc the numbers that are presented on page 42 in my opinion are correct okay when they as he said we just went through an audit we have all the numbers in here our project manager is right here the architect is right here we have everybody we need around here and with the numbers I we can do the math here I mean I do not know how other people do analysis but this is based on reality that may be based on some assumptions made I can't speak to that sure but but the arithmetic here works okay so for the purposes of this meeting let's let's go forward with the numbers that are audited that have been accepted by the Board of Education and its board professionals or else we can all probably pull out our pocket calculators and arrive at different things more questions committee woman angle thank you mayor um I just have a question because it's been a while and we talk a lot about Turf in the locker rooms but can we have a reminder about what the work is that's going to be done at South Orange middle school and like the process for that when we go out to bid when the work would be done because my daughter's at MMS but I know that that school was pretty bad so I imagine that South Orange middle school is awesome so needing repair certainly so the the scope of work improvements at South Orange Middle School would be similar to what's being undertaken at Maplewood Middle School so that includes uh mechanical and HVAC systems building controls uh security upgrades Door and Hardware upgrades communication systems uh life safety type systems uh renovation of the office area and uh installation of of unisex or gender neutral bathroom oh and I guess just what's the so if this passes tonight then what would the time like would that go out to bid right away what's the timeline for all of that so the the drawings are prepared already um because we had obviously put this out to bed and it came in over budget so I would say if it passed tonight I mean we' get together but fairly quickly I mean we we don't have to do the work again we just need to freshen it up and get an ad in the paper and you know I mean our hope would be um to get the equipment ordered that's one of the reasons we did the electrical upgrade so that we'd be that one step ahead because that's the longest lead time is the electrical service and we're doing that under the Maplewood bid the Maplewood Middle bid thank you I'm back uh so one of the things I know we're all feeling is that uh for those of us who caught the last Board of Education meeting we understand the situation the district is in with respect to the operating budget for those up here we all have a very good understanding of our operating budget our Appropriations cap state laws that relates to that and then there is the side that deals with capital specifically the longrange facilities plan uh could the administration explain to the community in a little bit more detail moreis more to understand how we're here talking about fields and additional money for the longrange facilities plan while at the same time the district is grappling with an operating budget challenge so when you have a capital Improvement and it's budgeted for out of the operating budget that's what's done at the beginning of the year during the budgeting process and that's going to be in fun 12 what we're talking about tonight is something that's going to be under fun 30 and what we're doing is we're actually creating a bond and it's going to be sold on Wall Street and we're going to get the funds that way and it's going to be temporary but I mean 20 25 years to pay it off where it's not a permanent tax levy increase this is just a temporary one understood it is it fair to say though that debt service associated with the long range facilities plan is a part of the operating expenses uh the the general operating budget with a debt service line item and to be fair the municipalities have a very different process for its Municipal Finance even though we all have to follow the law yours looks a little bit different from ours so um just trying to make sure my colleagues and you all and we all are talking the same language so um when a school district sells bonds um the repayment of it happens in what's called fund 40 which is outside the operating budget so it's a separate component of the tax levy um so when we talk about fund 10 in the tax levy that does not have a line item in there for Debt Service it's because it's paid out of fund 40 so it's a it's a it's a separate calculation from the calculation of the general fund tax levy okay so in a hypothetical um and let me make these numbers very simple is that you're looking at a 2% tax levy increase but with Debt Service Plus Debt Service separately say that's 0.5 the all-in impact to a homeowner might be 2.5% but 2% relates to the operating expenses and the 0.5% would be related to the capital and the bonds that is correct okay thank you I'll vote Yes if it's a 2.5% agre I think a lot of people would yeah uh board member VOD lamani so if you saw the budget presentation that happened a couple of days back and at the towards the end you saw two numbers one was the tax levy and the effective tax leevy and in this case it was actually it's actually less than 2% because you know we don't have a bond payment to make so 2% is a cap and then we had a minus 18% in approximately in in in interest payments so therefore the effective number is 1.88 yes thank thank you for that um any more questions um Deputy Mayor C how much are we sitting on already in [Music] debt I would have to research that but if you give us two minutes it's that would be great because I understand there there's a lot of debt that goes back over 10 years we'd have to look it up but I believe the district had some successes this year in reduced uh costs for interest rates so I believe you refinance some bonds is that correct that was last year but that was last year yes okay we did gotcha um trusty Brown yes while you're looking at that number my question would be to Mr Downey and Miss T tartaglia tartaglia um Mr Downey while you were speaking you talked about the 12E average that you use for the field I guess the question would be in your experience with any particular and that was for the artificial turf correct all right and I don't know is that like a high school field the usage the type of sport that you're using the to create that 12year that just I guess the utilization for the 12 years how do you come to the 12 Years cuz that's important here I think ultimately so the the 12 years is not an absolute number it's an estimate obviously um the more a field is used the the more likely it is to wear out sooner than that use a little bit less it may last longer the 12 is just a kind of an industry rule of thumb if you will God I guess I'm just asking for more follow up on that industry rule is the industry using like is it high school it I only ask because I think at some point we're going to get into more of the granular aspects of the field and so I'd love to hear from the industry standard standpoint how are we coming up with 12 years yeah that would be reflective of uh of high school use got all right more questions from board members so I'm going to suggest a a slight change to the agenda uh we did not create the agenda it was actually uh the board of education but one thing we know is that a lot of community members are here to ask actual questions I don't believe during any of the actual Board of Education meetings a totally separate entity some of these questions were actually asked and answered um so I would love for us to take this opportunity to keep the professionals around and as people come up and have specific questions that we'd be able to answer those and uh we've received so many emails so many comments there haven't been any public forums I know this is not traditional but if it's okay with my colleagues since we have all of our professionals here and we do have a robust Community contingent is that we be able to ask questions and answer them does that work for everyone all right so um yes Mr VOD lamani so I'd agree to that if as long as people answering have the option of saying I don't know I'll come back to you or I I don't know where you're getting those numbers from like for example when you asked me the number for what I some you you were giving an example of some 18 million un incubed we can't do that because you know when public comes this one of the reasons why we don't talk during public session yeah is because we open ourselves up to different interpretation than what's happening yep well we'll move through those bumpy roads together but totally understand folks we're going to try something new it's not a cross-examination people didn't get questions in advance if you ask them you know what color is the sky at this moment right now not everybody's gonna say the exact same thing but I want to at least be able to have this dialogue that we recognize did not happen before and we're all here right now and I know the importance of this so why don't we have um the uh board professionals if you could join us perhaps over here with your chairs and then we'll have members of the community come up if we can just do a little scooch over there's always room at the Horseshoe so so we're doing public comment now yes okay and then we'll go into discussion after everybody has had a chance all I do ask if somebody else has asked your question and received an answer it's likely that if you ask the exact same question you might get the exact same answer so please try and limit your comments to 2 minutes tonight because we have many many people who want to speak and for those of you who have organized and coales together be rest assured I'm sure somebody else from your group will pick up where you left off uh but we're going to do our best tonight um so we're going to start with the inperson public comments I've asked Mr Burnside if he would take the lead on calling people's names so I can pay attention to what everybody is saying so we'll start with in person and then we're going to move to those who are joining us virtually again please do your best to limit to two minutes first up Addison Sor oh I forgot to mention of course our students absolutely first I don't doesn't look like it oh yeah makes sense okay thank you hi uh my name is Addison Secor and I'm a member and captain of the Columbia softball team I'd like to first start off by thanking the board of Ved whose unanimous N9 to nothing vote proves their allyship and supportive female sports and mapso all my life I have identified as a softball player I would not be the young woman I am today without the sport it has allowed me to grow to form friendships to act with passion but most importantly it is proven to me that female athletes face inequities of such extreme proportions that It is incomprehensible Columbia softball does not have a home we borrow Midlands three from South Orange Township in every home game we have to hope that we are allowed to use the field as if there's a conflict with wreck baseball they are granted priority even then it is so poorly maintained that our talent is lost among the disturbing quality of M3 the dirt has become cement the alfius full ditches and my best friend Ellie fell victim to the metal lip of the fields her freshman year this is not the only season ending injury metalin has caused we have asked time and time again for a playable maintained field that will withstand the time and dedication that softball and other female sports put in on a daily basis this is only achievable by turfing ritzer in addition to being fuess the girls locker room which all girls Sports share is appalling there are no bathrooms in close proximity to M3 we are left to find transportation for a field that is two miles away from our school I am ashamed that our leaders have failed to take our grievances into account especially as women themselves we Columbus female athletes were encouraged on Thursday February 8th by mayor Adams to continue fighting for Wom women for ourselves in the future of women's sports to not give up to be the powerful Leaders of Tomorrow we have tried to do just this but the ceiling to Our Success is determined by the board of estimates the women leaders who have also faced demoralizing Title 9 issues firsthand despite this they refuse to correct those same issues that are taking place under their authorization issues that are still plaguing athletes female athletes years later it especially does not matter to miss C who's an opposition of equality when it pertains to extracurriculars which includes girl Sports inequity is fueled by those in POS positions of power who sit IDL and assumed problems will be mended by time for the sake of safety for the sake of equity for the sake of the president regarding the treatment of female athletes in our community you will inevitably set tonight do your job and support the girls you see yourselves in by by approving a turfield thank you for your time thank you for joining us next is Ellie Martin hello can you hear me yes good evening I'm Ellie Martin I'm a senior at Columbia resident of South Orange and a Varsity Softball Captain I want to First St the board of ed for the unanimous N9 nothing vote for agreeing to include funding for riter the longrange fac facility plans over his request their vote shows that they stand alongside the female athletes of the school district until it is fixed the issue of equal Fielding for male and female athletes is something that should not go ignored by telling us by telling us that playing on these dangerous Fields makes us better athletes by Columbia softball not even having a school provided softball field you're telling us that women should grow up accepting mediocracy is this a message that we want to send the next generation of leaders Scholars and athletes it's time to stand up for our school's athletes and give them the resources that they need and deserve it's time to improve the funding for a well-maintained turf field not just for the sake of equality but for the future of our community District provided documents show that the estimated cost of installation and maintenance of a Turf fster will be essentially the same as the cost of a grass field over a 24e period however a Turf ritzer will provide for 7 72,000 hours of playing time versus 19,200 hours of natural grass essentially triple the available playing time for nearly the same cost furthermore Turf opens up even more gates for athletes it allows softball to finally have two School provided Fields it'll be used by soccer lacrosse marching band cross country and can use by every other team year round for conditioning and furthermore the conditions are going to be much better because if you guys have ever stepped on currently it's just a bunch of holes and it's very dangerous in both 2019 and 2024 the Board of Ed thought that turfing riter was important enough to include in the long-range facilities plan so I implore each and every one of you to do the right thing to respect the decision and pass this resolution voting yes on this funding can send a powerful message that in our community gender equality isn't just a slogan it's reality thank you next is Olive wit sorry um hello members of the Board of Education my name is Olive Woody and I'm a ninth grader at Columbia High School as captain of the Freshman field hockey team I often had to run captains practices at Underhill field the girls freshman team had had no pra had to practice and play at and play home games on the baseball fields one day we had practiced and we arrived at under Underhill field only to discover there was nowhere to practice every field was occupied by Boys either playing games or practicing and we had nowhere to go so we had to cancel practice we lost a lot of practice and playing time this season due to wet fields and Rain even when we did play games the field was slippery and muddy our varsity coach Stephanie Rivera started a feeder program for our high school field hockey teams when I was in Middle School I joined the spring League which had enough interest to form three girls teams the league consisted of teams from a few other towns including Milbourne um and we could not host any games here in s because there were no available Fields there were times when we had to drive to Butler New Jersey which is about an hour away only to play another Columbia High School team my brother plays flag football and he's in sixth grade and because they play on a turf field they play nearly every weekend even in the the pouring rain this turf field can not only be used for sports but also as an area for students to eat lunch because many nearby restaurants don't have available seating or as an outdoor option for gym classes to have more space I'm here tonight to ask you to please keep your commitment and vote to tur fritzer Fields this will dramatically help all sports teams in our districts especially the girls sports teams thank [Music] you we do have one student online Kevin Mangini hello can you hear me yeah yes we can hear you hi Kevin we can hear you okay thank you um my name is Kevin manini and I live on Hixon place next to riter field with my wife April and our 10-year-old Sports obsessed daughter I'm sorry Kevin are you are you a student no somebody just made me uh live oh sorry uh sorry Kevin right now we're just doing students first and then we'll go to um people older than 18 yeah I'll wait all right thanks so much Kevin Dan Sor I may look it but I'm actually 17 [Laughter] sorry good evening thanks thanks for having me my name is Dan seor and I'm a a Maplewood resident um I'm here today just to express my concern with the leadership displayed by members of the committee for Maplewood we can all agree that we have different viewpoints which is healthy and actually expected but what bothers me is a lack of transparency and unwillingness to do something about the gender inequalities uh inequalities that our daughters face instead the leaders of M would continue to hide behind a veil of excuses and let their own personal beliefs Cloud their judgment for example during a public forum a few weeks ago both jamain and an acknowledg that gender inequities are taking place with Sports and when asked the simple question what's your plan Jamaine your response was I I have a neighbor who played for the Eagles and tour is ACL playing on Turf you then went on to say that since Sports is an extracurricular activity you will not support the funding so can I only conclude that you feel that gender inequities are okay as long as it in as long as it impacts extracurricular activities and Nancy you uh provide a no better answer uh again you acknowledge that gender inequities are taking place and the reason that your position against funding is concerning to me as a taxpayer of Maplewood because they are personally motivated you said that your kids played wreck and cougar soccer and now are uh grown and it does not affect your family so it is not something you're willing to fight for as mayor you should not be making decisions based on how it impacts your your family you also challenge the cost of the project referencing friends in the turf business saying will cost more more than a current estimate so your stance is that it will cost too much and are and you are allowing inequities to continue because it is too expensive to fix uh is this really the Legacy that you want to leave you have an opportunity tonight to let the young female athletes know that you stand alongside them and you will and you will not support inequities against them or any other group in our town do the right thing and pass the lfb thank [Applause] you hold on Mr Burnside I sir I I absolutely appreciate your comments we have opportunities for people to speak freely um Miss kripe and Deputy Mayor Adams and Deputy Mayor kripe um at the end uh for anything targeted at you um absolutely you will have the time to respond and it's noted that those comments were specifically meant for you and so I want to make sure you have an opportunity to respond to those okay next next speaker I'm Jane Conrad I'm here to speak in opposition to artificial turf on ritzer field this is just not a well-considered plan and in my belief it does not deserve funding much less a blank check there's still not enough awareness of how artificial turf is not suited to the era we are in with extreme rainfall depleted aquifers and heightened flood risk artificial turf fields are impervious structures designed to drain water quickly in the past this was a virtue now it is a liability exposing us to flooding and pollutant cleanup unless there are adequate structures for storm water detention and treatment and these will be expensive I urge you don't go forward until you have a clear understanding of what that would be involved with this and the associated costs these plans ALS Al show no awareness of how the field is used now um just to take one example project Adventure um it is far in a way the most popular choice as a fizzed class at Columbia High School and all Columbia students have to take four quarters you know every every quarter that they're at CHS they have to take fizzed um it accommodates um basically um far more students than any sports teams right now hundreds of them per year it's limited only by the number of qualified instructors that are there the current plant treat it as an inconvenient afterthought and the plans don't even notice and they completely discard half of the equipment in particular the part of the course that LEDs kids practice the skills that they need on the high ropes that's where they plan to stockpile the soil that they would remove from the field so um it's a shame to throw this very appreciated uh program your time is up thank you okay thank you [Applause] m uh Mr Burnside if you can give me just one second Miss Conrad thank you for all your thoughtful emails to the board I know you were stopped a little bit short but we received everything in advance so thank you for that um there was actually two comments that were made which I think are also questions um Dr Tellis sport or Mr H gosh board member VOD lman one of the contentions was regarding project Adventure uh would you be able to clarify the status of project adventure and whether or not that will remain project Adventure will not be impacted by the turfing of ritzer if you look at the actual schematic you'll see that project Venture lies outside of whatever is going to be turfed so it will still remain great thank you so much for that clarification I know that a lot of community members had expressed concern about project Adventure so just to repeat if the board proceeds with this proposal under any iteration project Adventure will remain that's correct um Mr Downey Downey uh there was again this this question about storm water detention treatment the cost over time I you'll probably get more questions about that so it's probably better to get into a little bit more details right now um You you spoke about earlier that in all of the estimated costs that you prepared uh probably with the folks who are the professionals that will be doing this work um the board of school estimate didn't specifically see as a line item where it says storm water management any type of mitigation um any type of drainage Etc in your experience does this happen at a point where construction bids or bids are going out for this type of work or what's the process and how do we have assurance Es as a community that uh with a major construction project there that these issues about flooding and storm water will be addressed and not made worse so um I suppose the drawings could be available through the board of ed for review when they're when they're put out to bid they are public at that point so um the details and so forth associated with the drainage system that would be uh implemented can can be seen um you know that that system does sit underneath the field uh it does it is designed to manage the runoff of the various GE storms you know 5 10 50 100 and so forth and it's also um not purely runoff it does have an infiltration component as well which will put some of that water back into the soil um but that uh those details would be in those documents okay but for the time being Mr Burnside back to you those documents have not been made available but the board intends on ensuring that there is a storm water plan as a part of any potential uh turfing of ritzer correct yeah the the plan hasn't been created yet right uh not not in final form no no okay and Mr Downey back to you um furthering on what Miss Conrad said we're all familiar with the new storm water um the Inland flood protection rules that were passed last year I think our governing bodies even commented on them and and supported them um do we have assurances that your team is very familiar with the DP regulations and that anything presented on this site will follow all of those regulations that were adopted last year yes is it fair to assume oh my God I feel like this is Law and Order is it fair to is it fair to assume that under those new Inland flood protection rules that any major soil disturbance has to retain more storm water on its site than its prior pre-existing condition with those regulations I believe that's accurate yes okay thank you um I think we covered some of uh Mr daffis I I just wanted to give uh the team from epic an opportunity to uh was there anything else that was in Miss Conrad's statement that was presented as fact to the public that uh may not be factual in that it relates also to the final plans being made uh prepared and published to the community and to all of us I just watched your body language when there were a couple things that were said about where soil was going to go and where equipment was going to go so can you can you I mean I I guess it's important look we're polarized and this is a very difficult issue and there's been a lot of misinformation out there and now is the time we're finally here we're finally here to make this decision tonight we're going to be here all damn night but we got to get the facts straight so go so uh when we put the plans out to bid we have an extraordinary amount of approvals State approvals we have to get sorry um so you know if the D changed the law last year we will have to abide by that law they come and check we have to get final approvals and so um you know whatever the rules are we have to follow them we storm water will be absolutely followed whatever the new rules are that's what we have to do and we have to submit all that paperwork prior to um even putting the job out to bid and getting approval so it's very stringent thank you Mr Downey yeah I would just add that the the reference was made again to Pres project Adventure um project Adventure will remain and and will stay the same through throughout the implementation of this so it will not be destroyed during the construction great thank you and Mr Downey you have a great soothing voice for a podcast and the letter the letter of um what's the word I'm looking for letter of interpretation L the letter of interpretation um needs to be gotten by NJ do D before any projects started correct yeah so here I'm going to I'm going to reemphasize that I'm the architect I'm not the civil engineer but my understanding is that that would come out of the approval process that uh that Kathy just well I think it's separate process be part of that I think it as part of that process because it's tied together okay because that's like a six to8 month timeline with requirements I can I can clarify with the engine engers the specifics of that process but um my understanding is the clarification of that classification will be part of that thank you um can I a question committee woman angle thank you so you mentioned that the plans for sto storm water aren't done yet and that you know the rules have changed and there's a lot of approval processes but the money that's being asked for includes storm water management so are we right to assume that whatever money is being requested this is the money that's going to be able to cover all there's probably add might be additional costs or whatnot like are you going to need more money or is this the efficient money that's going to cover all the new rules or how does that all work since we have we don't have a plan so the numbers are estimates because the work has not been bid yet um but that said they were estimated with the understanding that that those improvements have to be part of the project so they should take that into consideration thank you uh next speaker please Jonathan poor what was the last name b p o o r bour welcome Mr bore you poor like not wealth no money okay I recommend that the bosc reject the request for a $30 million Bond the request is problematic in two regards um or actually there's you could talk for an hour but I'm going to try to limit it to a couple of things here the 20 million for SS Renovations lacks sufficient detail um taxpayers need to see just what sort of work is to be done before we can approve such a large sum we would like to see the district that the district is conforming with the long range goals of the two towns with regard to energy and climate resiliency for example it was during the initial uh phase of of planning for the long range facilities plan it was deemed too expensive to go with uh electric heating systems that would be more resilient in the future given the en Rising uh fossil fuel costs um now with this extra extra ask of money one wonders whether we should have gone with those IDE those more expensive ideas that would that would reduce operating costs in the future using Capital funds um second the 4.5 million for plasticizing ritzer field is a frivolous request as another commenter put it 4 and a half million to turn a field into a field at a time when the district is facing budget deficits I know we just discussed why that's different than Capital um 4 half million to transform a flexible natural Green Space into a dedicated Sports Complex makes no sense the plans publicized by the district are grandiose and insensitive to their effect on neighbors uh and and other students majority of which do not participate in these particular Sports um and I would like to say quickly the um the uh the idea that you're going to be able to store store storm water in the base of the artificial IAL turf field is not really absolutely possible the the idea of this the design of the field is to get water off so you have to have more areas outside the field that will be retention basins and there's not enough room on the field for the current plan to have that and detention basins so there's a contradiction the water's going off fast or it's the water staying and infiltrating into the ground you can't have both so um I think we need to go back to the drawing board so let's put this off think about it more carefully and um votee no thank [Applause] you was there any responses from our professionals on any of those comments um so I guess I I can just add the um the retention component uh does not have to be surface open retention basins as was referenced so so um much retention not just for Fields but parking areas and other things are are done as a matter of course today they are all under under the surface and the structures that um would be involved here are those types of structures so they are designed specifically to uh manage and retain the water the water does go through the field into that system where it is maintained and released in the appropriate uh way in terms of volumes and so forth I think that's the point that he's making um um that it's designed to run off more quickly than it can be absorbed and therefore it needs ret detention basins off the field so that it can catch it much like a street so I I guess my point is that there is detention in that there will be detention in that design it's just not a surface detention Basin that you might see in in some installations it is underneath the turf it does serve a retention purpose and um would be designed to meet all the applicable requirements associated with that okay um trusty Hilton I just have to ask you to elaborate on that a little bit so is it in your judgment that all the extra water that's going to come off these fields where would it Go and really what's the impact of the that extra water on the surrounding um neighborhood you know we we on the municipal side spend an awful lot of time and money on storm water management and on so it feels to me that this is putting an undue burden on our neighborhoods so can you comment on that no go ahead sir please answer and and and please address the uh presumption that there's going to be a lot of water in the surrounding neighborhood because of the field can you speak to that too again an assertion presented as fact is that factual uh no I don't believe it is the the the system will be designed to manage the runoff I mean any detention system is designed to do the same thing and that is to capture the water have a place for the water to go allow the water to be released at a reasonable rate and and a rate that works with the other structures and features in the area and also provides some infiltration this will do both of those things um and be designed to release the water as the requirements would dictate so if I could follow up so it's it your estimation that there's no measurable effect on the surrounding communities for storm water all I can say right now because this the final design hasn't been done and again as I mentioned I'm I'm not the civil engineer who has the detailed knowledge of of the systems you know all I can say is that they they will be designed to meet the runoff requirements to satisfy those requirements um it is not simply a wholesale release of water into the community that's not the way it works thank you so folks um and what a robust discussion I'm going to focus mainly on the questions directly from the speakers and then we can ask another round of questions and followup so that we're mindful of the Public's time so let's just focus on their comments their questions and then we'll have discussion at the end does that work for everyone great okay next speaker Virginia Lamb Falconer hi good evening um so I'm a Maplewood resident for 21 years I'm a parent of two former student athletes and I'm also an environmental educator and consultant with over 30 years of experience and the more I learn about the dangers associated with Synthetic Turf the more astounded I become that this proposal is even being considered the plan proposed is grossly deficient in details on cost and potential impact how does it account for the projected 30% increase in rainfall or the increased heating or any of the other changes of our warming World changes that could make the project cause severe damage in our community and saddle us with potentially astronomical bills to say nothing of the health impacts to student athletes and the general public The Proposal doesn't consider all that would be permanently lost if this functioning field is destroyed and replaced with what is effectively a plastic covered parking lot storm water would be blocked from re-entering the ground and excess would have nowhere to go but our roadways and our homes and the D flood protection rules call for nature-based storm Water Management Solutions otherwise known as green infrastructure just FYI and importantly in addition this proposal completely ignores the very real fact that natural turf fields can work for years in our community we've been comparing barely maintained fields to some imagined ideal of synthetic Fields with all the their glorious promise well I bring here a picture from Ridgewood and their synthetic turfield last year underwater bubbled up and now they're working with the Army Corps on solutions that are going to cost upwards of 25,000 per field just to clean and repair the fields so in fact um I've spoken to several local Turf managers and they say that well-maintained natural fields are the gold standard for athletes so we can't keep comparing comparing crappy fields to this ideal that doesn't really exist so it's operation and maintenance at a small amount versus large Capital Improvements so I urge you don't rush ahead with something that seems like an expeditious solution only to find out too late that is a problem that we could not have imagined the scope of thank you thank you so I think we've had some responses to some of those uh comments is there anything additional that the professionals would like to add um I can't speak to the example I don't know anything about that field or or what the circumstances were there uh I can speak to uh my experience of working with schools and uh the reason many of them do consider Turf is the same as the reason it's being considered here it's the same reason we provided the analysis based on ours to the Board of Education uh Turf provides a uh much higher use level that uh cannot be matched by a grass field the the other problem that school districts and and it is a challenge here as well is that to have budgets that are adequate to support the kind of Maintenance that would allow a grass field to perform quote unquote ideally is just not realistic when it comes to public school budgets and that's not unique to this District I see that circumstance arising all over the state and and other places and that's why uh districts in many cases consider Turf because of the much greater usability um grass has much more downtime the maintenance is difficult and without adequate maintenance you run into conditions such as was illustrated by the students who spoke earlier about divots and other things that form over time and and create problems with the field so while there is I understand the point of not comparing a a rundown grass field to an ideal artificial turf we also should be careful where look at the grass field correctly and that an ideal grass field is not really an attainable goal when it comes to public school districts at least not in my experience short arms there was also a mention of green infrastructure and that's something that we look at um especially in our municipalities is that something that would be considered as a part of the bid package if Turf were to move forward has that been given any consideration along with the storm water retention um to actually use green infrastructure as a part of that uh that's something that we can specifically speak with the engineers about and see uh what thoughts they have obviously they've looked at it from the retention and the infiltration side of things but uh there it may be possible to look further Mr Burnside is that something where you can sticky it and bring that back to the board um again not knowing where this is going to go but anytime that there's disrupt if we can also have green infrastructure address some of the mitigating circumstances that's always pre preferred great thank you trusty Brown just a followup question to the public comment what what field is that the example field no no the underwater field yes Inwood Atwood school okay it's after all right thank you field see bubbles up the excess water can't oh sorry I'm sorry this is this year this is this year and I just saw a CBS news story about the working with the Army courp and that they're considering even possibly raising the elevation okay hi all so remember nobody on watching us on YouTube can hear so uh the question from trusty Brown was where was the picture of the flooded field that we just saw and the answer was from Ridge Ridgewood this past December okay next speaker please oh I'm sorry Dr telis for I just did look up this field that that um flooded and it was caused by the hoo cus Brooks the the bank had overflowed and then that had caused flooding in the field and the town hall so it wasn't just rain the system itself not being able to come to control drainage it was more because a brook had overflowed and then flooded the city or flooded the town the brook to overflow that's that's very helpful we we can all we can all Google it at some point I'm sure there's uh interesting history to that field um next speaker please Sabine hack good good evening Miss hack hello my name is Saina hack I've been a resident of South Orange for 25 years my for children all attended s schools K through 12 they are all now in college there's a lot of passion in these towns and I like that but passion can be blinding it can make us lose sight of the big picture the vote you have before you today is not about natural grass or artificial turf it's not about drainage systems and flooding it's not about our operating budget shortfalls or saving teachers jobs most importantly it is not about your personal beliefs or preferences this vote is about bonding the necessary money to create safe functional and adequate spaces for our children to receive a thorough and efficient public education I'm going to repeat that this vote is about bonding the necessary money to create safe functional and adequate spaces for our children to receive a thorough and efficient public education the new J in New Jersey the Ed in New Jersey an educational requirements include 12 years of physical education on riter field the only education that happens physical education that happens is walking that's not just inadequate it's pathetic the girl's locker room is in such disrepair that it's unsafe and unusable the ceiling tiles at SS are falling even our historic renovated CHS Auditorium is currently unsafe and unusable whether you favor Athletics or the Arts all of us should stand behind giving our students safe functional and adequate spaces in which to learn please approve the long range facilities plan overage $29 million in full thank you for listening thank you Rebecca Shear hi can you can you guys hear me yes all right great thanks uh hi my name is Rebecca Shear I'm a Maplewood resident and mom to a seventh grader at MMS and a third grader at Tuscan both my kids um are soccer players and both hope to Play Someday at CHS my older son plays at soccer in New York for Ironbound soccer club he plays at Riverfront Park which is Turf and sits right along the paic river and in New York there is no real push back against her fields and I think that New York gets it right because they realize that it's important to let kids have access to playable fields and that they don't of the space and that the demand is too great for them to be able to rely on grass in fact the Ironbound Community Corporation in my opinion the gold standard for research-based advocacy and environmental justice in the state even highlights Riverfront Park on their website is one of their organization's biggest accomplishments and I think that the same situation that we this is the same situation we have in our district that our demand for field sports surpasses what grass can provide my family goes to soccer fields all over the state and it's very hard to find grass fields that are in decent condition unless you go out really far like to Somerset or down south in South Jersey like near the pine Barons and while I'm here I just like to respectfully push back on a few of the arguments made against Turf that I've heard and if I had time I'd push against uh back against on additional arguments as well first that the US Women's Soccer Team asks to play on grass this is a false equivalency the women's soccer team ironically is asking for the same thing that girls in our town are for facilities equal to those of the boys Additionally the women's um soccer team that are asking for grass that will be safe and pristinely managed maintained something that our district does not have in its budget also that Turf is too hot to plan during the summer this is a fallacy and in contradiction to the lived experience of my own kids and just about every kid I can sh um who plays Field Sports thank you um thanks a lot thank you um there was one issue that I picked up on there and we've also received comments about that is that during the summer months that the heat on Turf is so exorbitant that players would risk injury by playing on it do you have any experience with that that you can share in terms of Turf installations the accuracy Etc so um that's been a uh an item of discussion and and um part of the discussion related to turf fields for some time uh manufacturers have changed the way the infields are constructed there are uh infields that are specifically designed to stay cooler that was the type of infield in fact that was used at Underhill um so the intent is to to um manage that surface temperature a little bit better um I don't have any specific scientific comparisons but but yes the systems are available to uh try to address that issue so manage it in what way by the only thing I've ever heard is uh hosing down an entire field no the the so a turf field consists of the uh the fibers of the turf and then there's an infill and there's a broad range of infills that can be considered which are specifically intended to um maintain a a cooler temperature on the field surface so that's independent of any washing down that would happen the surface itself stays uh cooler in terms of U what the athletes experience being on it how does it what does it used to maintain its coolness uh it's it's the the way the infill is constructed to to absorb that heat and not reflect it against the the a that are on the that are on the field water so it's holding some water no it's the material the Nill material itself but the material is holding some water no no it just it just maintains a cooler temperature it doesn't absorb the heat um you know completely ad hoc but let's compare it to like a a a black dashboard on your car to a light color dashboard on your car right it's the the light color reflects the heat more which means it's a little bit cooler to the touch so this infill works a similar way excuse me are you talking about material actual material that new material that's come in to the environment that changes the actual temperature so it it's so the the infill I'm talking about sits between the fibers of the turf holds them upright and um so it's a the product has been upgraded yes over the years the years to CH to attempt to deal with this particular situation of the heat yes thank thank you um lastly on that point again because we've received so much communication about it uh Mr Burnside to your knowledge has there been any complaints or a volume of complaints regarding Underhill as it relates to heat and summer months and whether the fields are playable we've had no complaints okay thank you uh next speaker please Jessica Miller evening Miss Miller thank you for all your email correspondence as well nice to see you um I live right here so this is something that's very important to me number one the LOI comes before Planning number two no storm water plan has been costed because there isn't one right now when Westfield learned that lesson it cost them $2 million okay [Applause] the original plan for ritzer was a single artificial turf field with no additional fencing it is now proposed to be three new Acres of imperious coverage with 35t Nets 68t fencing bleachers dugouts and lights that will shine into my home how shameful that our very own school district is more focused on skirting D regulations put in place to protect Area Homes than on developing a responsible plan as residents we are being asked to pay for the plan that will flood our homes the municipalities and the residents will pay the price for adding runoff to the already overloaded storm water system what kind of Community are we I have confirmation from the D that an Loi and FHA that's flood Hazard area permitting are required for this site despite the clever not a Wetlands email Additionally the D defines the artificial turf as impermeable coverage there was a letter published this morning that somehow seems to assert that none that detention basins are not required and I'm curious if Maplewood engineering has reviewed that new document that was posted I have been digging into the numbers and finances to show what a terrible fiscal decision it would be to spend $4.8 million plus to place artificial turf over the entirety of the green space at Columbia High School but I ended up discovering additional concern concerning issues with further financial implications why was the original budget appropriation for Psalms 10.5 million and now the Boe is request requesting literally double the total of unencumbered funds remain thank you your time is [Applause] up oh um so there was a lot there um some of it we have addressed so I'll turn it over to our professionals on any of the comments and then Mr Burnside I know um there's probably some questions there for you as well uh I can only offer there's there's no effort here to skirt any D requirements I mean this project will go through all the approval processes and receive all the approvals it's required to receive that's not not even a question um it it will happen as part of the process okay um I will add to that too I understand Miss Miller for you and the residents of Hixon that this has been a very frustrating process um it was alluded to during the last Board of Ved meeting is that we have planning boards typically that review and we have I'm sure you guys have served as as experts where residents get to ask these questions of the professionals to get detailed understandings and this is just a different process one that again we're not a part of but is is the jurisdiction of the Board of Education which is why we're having a very untraditional meeting right now but um Miss Miller I wanted to say just to reiterate is that the school district has committed to the appropriate Loi and FHA process moving forward so not started the I understood understood but they have committed to that process and I know that as a part of that process there's implications also for the residents who live within 50 ft so they they have assured us because this issue was raised prior to this meeting is that all of that will be addressed the appropriate way and I think we acknowledge that there isn't a storm water management plan to be presented because one is not being completed and this is a chicken and egg situation because even on the municipal side is you need to go out to bid first to see what the actual costs are going to be um and then you could choose to reject bids and not proceed with a project um but it's tough to spend all the money um just thinking out loud in advance before going out to bid uh when normally the soft cost are associated with the total construction budget so but be re rest assured for the residents and and perhaps this doesn't move forward at all is that we have communicated that I know board president Tellis Ford and um first vice president vad lman are very well aware and sensitive to those issues as well that were raised by the public um so I just want to note that it is absolutely noted here and the importance of that and the importance of making sure that residents of Hixon and within close proximity to the site have a very vested interest in this and then I believe we did address some of the questions regarding storm water and the applications here and and the impacts on surrounding neighbors uh Mr Burnside next speaker please Steve Latz hi Steve Latz a 33-year resident of Maplewood and South Orange and I've now moved to much higher ground in Sussex County um I want to address a number of uh I assume you're all in receipt of my planned remarks and hope you had a chance to read them I'm going to uh diverge from those I first want to speak to the concerns about gender Equity that have been raised by several students and I'm uh come from a family of sports fanatics and I'm strongly in favor of gender equity and that does not have to wait until the fields are put right in one fashion or another uh Dr Guilford it can happen tomorrow and it should happen tomorrow and I would expect that members of the Board of Education hold you accountable for that the athletic director simply favors boy Sports over girls Sports in the scheduling it needs to stop tomorrow second on on grass management it's interesting to me but no that no one but uh Jane Conrad and Virginia and others have looked at examples of successful Grant grass management all over the Northeast the cost is actually varies from with with up to 2,000 hours of use uh the cost varies from $1,500 uh an acre on the low end to $8500 an acre on the highend which would be for the 3 acres of ritzer field uh do the math about $26,000 um with respect to uh Mr burnside's tiny type slide finally describing where all the $17.4 million has gone um what he depicted for soft cost was uh nearly $16 million which means that he has allocated 11.4% for soft costs which is just out of this world and it means that the original estimates in the plan were uh way way off because all the bid Awards thank you your time is up came in under under cost the last point I want to make um is that Mr Latz I'm sorry I'm gonna I'm cut my microphone off my voice is loud the thing you need to demand is that you funded you funded $93 million you funded $93 million but you haven't gotten your money's worth because many elements of the original proposal were cut out of the B to bring bid Awards under budget and you need to find out which elements of the plan that was before you go forward because you have that amount of work probably about $20 million plus another $100 million in priority to sirs that need to be funded sir thank [Applause] you all right um Mr Latz you have an incredible background working with this District I don't like to cut off anybody especially people I respect um but we've all been following the rules right it's it's two minutes we don't want to give anybody an unfair Advantage all of your email correspondents which I appreciate have been distributed not just to the board of School estimate but also forwarded to our partners on the board of education so we hear your passion we've read all of your emails the references also to a former board member who sent some emails and that is in the hands of the district so I do appreciate you coming out tonight and for everybody please let's just try and follow the timer so that we don't have any awkward moments I don't like awkward moments and uh yeah let's let's move on to the next speaker Dave Merl Connor [Music] hi good evening I'm David Maric Conor I'm a resident of Maplewood I'm an actual resident Maplewood I still live here I still pay taxes here um I have an an eighth grade daughter who plays softball hence the sweatshirt I have a fifth grade boy who plays baseball hence the Hat I wear multiple hats I coach all their teams I'm very involved I'll try to keep this brief because I got a lot to say and I want to try to work in a question for the board Professionals in the midst of my comments so hopefully that can be answered might not stop one ideology has no place here and policy has no place here you are here as one of our previous speakers said to approve bonds and to decide whether the Board of Education which is the policy making body has uh appropriately Advocate or allocated money for the gold goals that it it is charged with accomplishing which it has done they voted unanimously for this funding you are here to make sure that that funding lines up and then to approve it it's not a place to express your ideological opposition to artificial turf it's just not the forum for it if it were you can run for the Board of Education vote V vote against it there or if it comes up before your town vote against it there if you want this is not the place for an ideological stand second there is no plan B there is no other option maintaining the grass fields does not is not an option to provide equal fields for the girls you have a serious title n problem here our girls Des deserve better and working backwards from them improving things for the girls to give them equal facilities will allow Youth Sports to thrive in with more open space to play to the professional so I can work these in in my 20 seconds would you agree that it is illogical to think that there would be neighborhood flooding because these this field is downg gradient from the neighborhood it is permeable and it will have storm water facilities built in to make sure that there is no flooding the water will go through it will be retained and then released on at a at a regular rate also that that riter is not in the special flood Hazard area on the feem maps would not require in there okay I'm done please vote to approve the field thank thank you you know I I do there was some questions there let's address that first which was uh please go right ahead the ones directed at you yeah I think it's uh the question as I understood it was a question about neighborhood flooding would this contribute to it I do not believe it would I mean the requirements that we will have to demonstrate conformance with would include those we started out the the new DP requirements with you know have requirements for infiltration and reduced runoff and so forth that said uh if there is a cause for flooding in the neighborhood that is independent of this field body of water whatever that might be the field is not necessarily going to be a Panacea to fix a broader issue either so um you know but the field itself will be designed to to address those requirements okay thank you and and because I uh had to cut off Mr there was some questions he raised and then we just didn't follow up uh similarly Mr Burnside was there anything particular or uh representatives of the Board of Education was there anything that you wanted to respond to uh with respect to Mr lat's comments no I don't have anything okay and none from the board okay um there is something and and it's out actually why we went into executive session briefly and I I wanted to make sure because we have some people commenting on you know the right of our girl athletes uh to be equivalent to that of our boy athletes and so what uh I was told to be delicate so this is where it's less is more but just please follow me here is this is being considered uh in respect to the larger issue because of litigation that commenced after the long range facilities plan was uh originally adopted in 2019 so from that point to this point today and why you're seeing revisions for uh ritzer is the consideration of the Board of Education their understanding of Title 9 the guidance that they have received from their board professionals and attorneys to potentially be able to alleviate some of these concerns with what the proposal is right now so I can't get into more specifics of that but just understand when you hear a lot of our girl athletes come forward or references to title 99 is that is what we went into executive session for was to understand how that came about when it came about and whether or not a consideration of this tonight would help potentially alleviate some of those disputes that the district is facing right now as it relates to our young women athletes is that um is that good enough for you Mr AER I think that was very well said thank you very much I love when I'm told that next next speaker please Phoebe spaner hi my name is Phoebe I'm a resident of Maplewood um I'm also here to talk about Ritz herfield but I think it very much ties into just general concerns about um financial decisions and priorities in the district um so I want to start by asking three questions just close I want to start by ask asking three questions maybe some of them are like super basic and obvious but they're not obvious to me um first of all the funding for ritzer field and the SS Renovations has been tied together my understanding is that this was a choice by the Board of Ed it didn't have to be that way and I'm wondering can they be decoupled because it seems like there would be a more orderly decision process if they didn't have to be rushed through together um my second question is regarding flooding which has been raised quite a few times um it does seem that at least as far as the amount of planning that has been released so far the main idea is just to remove water from the artificial turf field and direct it into overloaded storm Drainage Systems um so that doesn't seem like a great plan and um given the importance of the flooding issue shouldn't um shouldn't there be like a more extensive presentation from a technical and financial point of view um that can be reviewed preferably also by the public um I think people have brought up a number of times that there is not really an Apples to Apples comparison going on here they're sort of the idea that you could leave the field as is or you could put in plastic Turf there is as other people have mentioned an option to look at natural fields which are wellmaintained and invested in as they should be and there isn't anyone here tonight to speak to that there's one person who self-described is not an expert in turf fields who's been as answering questions um but shouldn't shouldn't the towns consider the option of a will maintained turf field um I believe that is my time thank you great so thank you um the first question I would ask is um to our Board of Education colleagues I know uh there's been robust discussion amongst you on the proposal of turf natural Turf um would you care to share any comments of fft meetings and how you arrived at the recommendation uh for Turf rather than further analysis on on additional improvements to natural grass we arrived at that partly because of I would say that the issue that we have is about time um there's lots of scheduling issues at um Underhill and then when you look at the fields in our Community there's more playability or there's more playing hours than there are I guess the ability to maintain those fields and so by having a turf field it allows us to alleviate that by allowing us to have more scheduling on these fields which will increase in hours of playability so that was part of the reason that we arrived on using Turf over grass okay um Mr VOD lamani is there anything additional from you on that I mean if you look at the the presentation it has a slide that shows Turf versus grass and I think the at least to me the the number that jumps out the most is the number of hours that you can use to play on it we could have a band practice there in the morning we could have a soccer match in the afternoon and softball in the evening today we cannot do that and if boys play soccer during rain that thing is destroyed for the next one week so even though we have idealistic ideas of you know let's have grass that's just not possible for the usage that we have it may be good for a lot of other people but for us it is just number of hours of usage great thank you um whoa that was a slow clap um yeah um and then there was a question that I'm surprised we didn't get a little bit earlier was this notion of coupling for those of you who follow board meetings you've seen at times people quote unquote sever something out which means pull it out for separate action or you'll received a request for funding and you can remove one item um and this has been again a an educational process for a lot of us because I I think it's the first time at least while I've been an elected official where there there is a somewhat of a split where we have to figure out how to move forward so um from the Board of Education attorney was that what was transmitted to the board of school estimate was the totality of what the Board of Education adopted we did not request uh put it all together into one resolution that is what they approved which is why that is what is before us here today keep in mind we as Municipal Partners did offer suggestions back that is there an opportunity for us to sever could we have have two resolutions available to us we do not want to hold up other critical work that I think there is General consensus we'd like to move forward on so it will be interesting when we get to the later part of the meeting uh what flexibility that we have in order to achieve that um so I would say stay tuned we heard it loud and clear and there might be some um ninja procedural items that we're trying to accomplish here um to achieve achieve a goal of being able to allow people to voice whatever concerns they have with some items without delaying the larger items that we know are critical in moving forward so thank you for raising that um is there anything from the administration to add on top of that explanation okay good all right next speaker please Elina Jacobs hi good evening my name is Alina Jacobs and I'm a South Orange resident my daughter Olive spoke earlier I'm here tonight to urge the board of school estimates to vote Yes on the long range facilities plan our schools and facilities are in desperate need of upgrades and delaying the process is both irresponsible and a blow to the students our community serves turfing ritzer field will benefit not just athletes but all the students of CHS who may finally have a working field to use for physical education All Seasons even after the rain Turf has enabled programs like flag football to thrive because they play rain or shine we are a community that recognizes and benefits from Turf we should help more students benefit from that opportunity we heard the Board of Education members on Thursday night talk about the budget deficit that our district is facing and their genuine interest in reducing legal fees by funding a longrange facility plan you will be helping our Board of Education to meet this goal fixing girl the girls locker rooms and installing an additional turf field will prevent Title Nine complaints and lawsuits which could result in new legal fees Turf is a fiscally responsible decision for our district it is also the decision that supports fair and Equitable Playing Fields opportunities for the female athletes in our towns please don't put the burden of solving the carbon footprint on the female athletes of our school district it shouldn't be lost on anyone in this room that it's March and it's women's History Month I'm frankly shocked that in Soma in 2024 we are here advocating for equal and fair facilities for our female athletes I sincerely hope that the board of school estimates keeps its commitment to funding a longrange facilities plan so that projects that have already been debated and decided can get off the ground and help our students now more than ever our kids need some good news news thank you for your time Miss Jacobs I will also note that your daughter Olive was very impressive I noted in caps that she is a freshman speaking um and I think for many of the adults around the Horseshoe we would never think about speaking in public at 15 years old or whatever so congratulations to you for a wonderful young young young student you have there um Mr Burnside Mar and Rob good evening and thank you for allowing me to speak my name is Marian RAB and I'm a 23e Maplewood resident and I am also the CPAC the special ed liaison to CHS a budget or in this case a bond my friends is a moral document we've heard speakers today talk about a lot of things including talking about creating a safe and functional safe and functional adequate spaces for our children to receive a thorough and adequate education nobody nobody in here would disagree with that and nobody in here disagrees with the fact that our girls need to have equal and and tolerable locker rooms and spaces this is not a title 9 argument and if we want to make a title 9 argument maybe the boys teams should be a little better sharing the fields and not forcing our girl athletes to walk two miles to fields that are dangerous so in my mind this is not a title 9 argument this is a moral argument a moral argument and let's talk about some more morals let's talk about safe and functional schools and the fact that in the original long long range facilities plan Columbia High School one sole elevator was supposed to be completely replaced and another elevator was supposed to be built at the end of the building last December disabled children at Columbia High School spent three weeks trying to keep up with their classes in the guidance office because the one working elevator at Colombia flooded during that terrible storm that also flooded the Columbia cafeteria causing the entire School District to close down for a day that's where we are right now in our environment we have disabled students desperately trying to keep up with their classes in a guidance office because we have an unworking elevator and a continuous adaa violation that's been going on for years so if you want to talk about other lawsuits that can come up in this District I suggest you think about that one too um Miss rad thank you so much for your comments and I've heard you speak at prior meetings um Mr Burnside and Dr Gilbert um would you provide an update to the public on the concerns about the elevator um and all elevators and Ada access accessibility that's happening in the schools yes just recently we did confirm with uh our architect that there is money in the bond to do repairs Renovations on the existing elevator how much Mone I don't know that off the top of my head but um Mr Downey I don't know about a second elevator being installed it was in the original long range facility plan uh so I don't have the high school plans with me I'll have to confirm I don't have the budget numbers with me specific to the elevator now sorry so um Mr Burnside and and colleagues on the board of education and Dr Gilbert um typically when when at least the municipality has issues that impact ADA compliance especially when you have um children who need that as a resource um it it's not a part of a a future Bond it's an emergency repair using your existing Capital funds or your maintenance reserves um and and doing an emergency appropriation is that something that the board of education has considered um given given some of the comments we we do get it fixed every time three weeks the elevator was down for three mons sometimes parts are hard get and there is a lead time and that's unfortunate it wasn't part but we do take it very seriously can we please stop the back and forth out under understood Miss R I'm I'm hearing you loud and clear just having a little conversation here um Dr Gilbert yes so um it is concerning that our elevator has continued to have issues uh in our schools and as you know we have we have several um aged buildings in our district and we are we are really working working hard our facilities director Mr Tom jilo is working very hard to try to help maintain what happens sometimes it happens at Psalms and it happens at Colombia is that those elevators because of the Aging sometimes the parts that we need to fix it aren't readily available and so sometimes that does unfortunately cause us to have to be delayed in getting that elevator fixed but we are looking at other options and opportunities I appreciate you putting that on the table for us that's definitely something we would definitely go through and make sure we talk about but it is concerning that we do have these elevator issues but I rest assured that when we get the issues we worked as quickly as possible to get that elevator get all those elevators fixed but again sometimes we run into problems with parts sometimes we run into problems where for example um the last at Colombia High School where we fixed the elevator but then the wind Shaft or something occurred and the elevator could run to a certain point but just for safety reasons we decided to shut it down just to make sure it was working just properly as we needed it to work and so uh we're going to continue to work on this and continue to maintain it but don't doubt for a minute that it does not concern us that when that elevator goes down we have students who can't get to where they want to be and so it is my expectation is that expectation of Mr gilo that anytime this happens we work as expeditiously as possible to get that elevator fix so can I get clarification on the answer to the question is an ele are two elevators in the plan or just one just and is it replacement or just fixing it again rep just one replacement it's in the attachment I said you guys the other day oh could we hear from the professionals and not from the residents can I I know right or just let your mic I'm sorry if it takes a second to pull everything up like we we would like to hear a little bit more about the elevators and accessibility so what I'm hearing is that one is plann for Columbia High School is that is is that a new elevator correct I don't believe it's a new elevator new El it's $100,000 in Band-Aid repairs that are going to do nothing and it's a problem at MMS too okay I I hear you guys one second so if if the issue is that the parts are no longer available and we've dealt with that but again not on a very important issue like this we've dealt with that with Public Works equipment is that we need to replace it entirely or else we're continuously looking for old parts and um when they're no longer available it just delays the time uh for us to fix the situation so um have you considered a new elevator in Columbia High School and then what would be the status of South Orange or or the middle school so this is what was approved in the original bond this is what was approved by the Department of Education we had no plan to alter that what's this when you say this what is this the the uh renovation of the elevator I'm pretty sure it was a replacement elevator I mean does anyone it was originally a replacement and then it was downgraded to $100,000 in repairs and refurbishment according to Frank Sanchez before he was placed on administrative Le he told me that personally I have it in an email that I'm happy to share with every member on this hor okay may I Madam chairwoman so so look this is really important clearly right and stuff like this when it comes up like this it compromises everything that we're trying to do tonight it eliminates it eliminates the faith and trust in our decision making it eliminates any if any Goodwill is left and I'm speaking directly to Administration this is not personal please I know I come across hot as the attorney uh you know witnessed earlier in Clos session but I don't mean it personally I just think that with everything that is going on how could we not have this on our radar so I'm G to Dr Gilbert now I'm coming to you I really think in the interest of transparency tomorrow you and your colleagues need to strong I strongly recommend that you release to the public all the repairs that have been made and the issues that you've experienced with parts and what money has been SE spent in all of those repairs because the idea here is that as chairwoman me mayor colum said on the municipal side after we make a bunch of repairs over and over again to something eventually the financial equation and our duty is to replace that so so I really think the public needs to have that transparency because again when these things happen it really dilutes everything else and compromises this vote tonight it's really really unfortunate so thank you thank you thank you mayor um so I think you're hearing loud and clear uh from the municipal Partners I'll just share a story with you um at the South Orange train station uh sometimes our elevators don't work we're always asking New Jersey transit to make sure that those elevators are in service and it's um it's it's really awful for what happens to the residents is that we actually have members of our fire department we'll have to carry them off up the stairs it's it's it's tough to even think about how embarrassing and and just not anything we would want for any members of the community so if there's High sensitivities for um people with disabilities and all of that not to bring attention to their disabilities and do something that um is is really beneath what we want for our most vulnerable students so why I will suggest that let's let's sticky this and put it we have a municipal Partnerships meeting that's coming up very shortly and I would ask uh our Board of Education colleagues if it's okay with them if we can get an update on the elevator status and discuss this in a little bit more detail and uh for Dr Gilbert and Mr Burnside remember you have Municipal Partners here who really know how to blow up phones and so if you need emergency repairs things of that nature and need assistance from higher up than than South Orange and Maplewood there is nobody who will bother somebody more than perhaps committeeman Dean dafis so and I we do appreciate it thank you yes uh consider us a partner and you know I mean that with complete love Dean um is that you've got a lot of Advocates over here who will help you so that we don't have to hear things like that and um Miss RAB thank you for for sharing that with the board of school estimate and we will stay on top of it with you it does seem like some things are frivolous when you when you raise issues like that which are should be our top priority thank you great um next speaker please Julie mccort do you need to okay thank you pres Village president colum and my elected Trustees of South Orange I am applauding the way you are conducting this meeting I sympathize with the female and disabled students who feel continually ignored by S Board of Education because in fact at the February 29th meeting I was ignored by the S Board of Education when I put in a request to speak and I was present on WebEx to be clear every day any District elevator does not work is an ADA violation to be clear title 9 regulations do not require artificial surfaces for any sports s board of education has failed every single meeting to respond to emails as posted when answers have been requested posting a new document however simple or complex on the S Board of Education website on the day of the vote to approve this budget and bond for millions of dollars violates the budgeting and bond state laws of the state of New Jersey to hear for the first time tonight that stormw management costs are included in the project but we the taxpayers do not have a written plan to inspect in advance of tonight's votes highlights s Board of Education lack of preparation and transparency s Board of Education Administration is also violating the taxpayers due process by filing by failing to post all documents for public inspection including the storm water management plan in a timely manner approximately 5 years ago s Board of Education voted on a long range facilities plan that represented ritzer field and SE several other schools that would have artificial turf surfaces installed that plan remains inherent inherently flawed by installing an artificial turf over an existing active flowing stream s Board of Education represents before its public speaks periods that it votes on all matters thoroughly that are thoroughly researched and well considered no entity including a For Hire engineering firm no entity except the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection has the legal authority to declare any land a wetland or not or overrule a decision of the newy Board of of Environmental Protection thank you thank you so much appreciate your advocacy and um thank you for coming out and I hope your foot uh heals soon thank you next speaker please David humer Mr humor he stepped out I would just hold him later Eric shorter good evening some of you know me I'm Eric shorter um I just want to State for the record first and foremost that I absolutely support Sports for the young women in this town I have three daughters that went through the entire system K through 12 they played soccer they played softball they played four years of field hockey I absolutely support you ritzer field does not have to be plastic it does not have to be covered with forever chemicals 200 ft from the Waterway the raway river extension visible to the naked eye that slopes right into the water we need safe spaces we don't need forever chemicals we don't need 3 acres of garbage I was here last time you heard me call it garbage it's landfill there's no place to dispose of it now I just want to read something and I want to make sure I get this right so I brought a quote beyond the $10 million of ADA compliance that was pushed aside as priority to I just want to talk about this field um this is from one of your zoning board members uh devani even more alarming is the risky advice via our District's Consultants decide step the NJ Department of Environmental Protection requirements for this project now I'm not a lawyer but I have played one on TV sidest stepping the Department of Environmental Protections to put in Forever chemicals 200 feet from the water just the legal exposure alone should give you pause the potential for litigation this is not a safe space we can maintain this grass but just like the stage the elevators the locker rooms we need to put in the effort grass grows naturally and if we put in the effort we can keep it green now I loathe to say this but say this I must when I hear people talking about artificial turf I'm reminded of willly Wonka and particularly veruka Sal it didn't end well for her and if we put in artificial turf your time is it will not end well mark my words sir was she the one who became a blueberry golden EG oh that's that's right the Greet gotcha um great movie um I I I think that there was thank you for those points um Miss guha is my appointment to the Zoning Board of adjustments so anytime you're going to drop her name I'm going to say mhm um but I do know that ever since those issues were raised about the D I I don't think it was an intentional oversight um none of us even on the board of school estimate knew that in 2019 it was a catch from the community and as soon as that catch happened it was forwarded to the district and we do have their assurances that you know we reiterated tonight if and only if this project moves forward every aspect of D guidelines uh will be followed moving forward I don't know if that provides Bud because they might have requirements that don't match any of so so I I understand the question was like you know how do you know there's so many requirements Etc uh we do not have the civil engineer here we don't have somebody who's the wetlands delineator Etc we do have the architect of record here but I think those are best questions for them that we can follow up on but know that we have laser focus on paying attention to what those guidelines are and making sure that our B our partners on the board of education do follow them uh they're very important agency in New Jersey and uh no doubt if we did something not conforming to their guidelines uh they would have no problem showing up and none of us want that um Mr Burnside next speaker Mara [Music] Herman I believe that's Malia Herman sorry this is actually going faster than I thought um good evening my name is Malia Herman and I'm from Maplewood I'm speaking to you tonight on behalf of CPAC the special education parent advisory committee as you consider the projects included in the long range facilities plan tonight I want to bring your attention to projects included in this package that haven't been spoken about yet Under The Heading of CHS Renovations is a light line item for 1.1 million for the CHS guidance Suite this is a project that members of our CPAC executive board have worked on in the past with principal Sanchez and they were to include a new life skills lab as well as the guidance Suite now the guidance Suite would be a really important update to the school because currently the counselor offices are spread throughout the building and this would bring them all into one suite and make it easier for students who are seeking support according to the CDC more than four and 10 students felt persistently sad or hopeless and nearly onethird experienced poor mental health and this is in the Years following Co um the need for these updates was also underscored in an editorial in our very own Columbian that was published by The Village Green and in that article they talked about parents and students claiming that it was confusing to access mental health support in the high school the life skills lab if it remains as part of the CHS Renovations plan would open a dedicated space for students with disabilities to learn things like making meals dressing for the weather and other other things um to prepare students for Life After High School so as you consider this package please remember that there are other very worthy and I would say essential projects wrapped up in this plan that deserve your attention and approval and my question would be um if you could give us more details on this guidance Suite that is included in the renovations and whether the life skills lab uh remains in that plan thank you thank you Miss Herman so either uh Mr Burnside would you be able to address that one or is that better for our professionals okay I'll give you a second to think yes uh so specifically is is it uh still planned to be the guidance Suite with life skills Etc as the programming uh there is they're not they're not directly together in that area that's being renovated for guidance but there are spaces moving around to provide for that yes okay but they're not all together basically no so they're they're I'm I'm not fully understanding so the original proposal was to have them all grouped together and now they're separated or they they never were all grouped together they may have been the the desire but the spaces in the building being what they are the the guidance Suite is bringing the guidance offices together in one area but the life skills space is is not directly in that area yeah yeah that's my understanding okay and so the life skills space would be where it's um it's going where the nurses area is yeah yeah where the existing nurses area is okay yeah I'm sorry I yeah I didn't bring the plans with me tonight I'm sorry we'll do our best to answer if you could pull your mic down a little bit no up there it goes there you go so the the guidance Suite is in the where the pool area was becomes the commons and um the one side of it was the girls locker the other side's the boys locker the the boys old locker room is becoming the Guiden suite and all of that area um all of the guidance officers are moving into that Suite if this is approved cuz it the the funding is not there right now right now it's just vacated it's been Abad and it's vacated when they move there's areas within the building that are currently offices nurses there's some counseling areas that get vacated those spaces are going to be converted back into classrooms because they were kind of just partitioned off into spaces one of those spaces and it's hard to describe because I don't have the plan but one of those spaces that gets vacated when the guidance moves will then become live skills again life skills was originally planned for the new addition which we didn't build and when we didn't build the new addition that was one of the requests from Frank Sanchez was that that space that was going to be in the new addition needed to come in the building and so it's going to go into one of the areas that gets uh reconfigured when we move the guidance Suite I'm following now so when you've referenced the original budget and the scale back that was happening at Columbia High School this is a part of the value engineering or what have you um that led to needing to relocate these spaces from where they were originally thought to be yes okay understood uh thank you Miss Herman um next speaker please Julia FL Rich weiner hello I'm actually going to try to do what you said at the beginning and not talk about something that hasn't been brought up mostly although I first want to say um that by definition just in responding to some other things that were said by definition these plastic grass surfaces are not permeable so when someone said they were permeable they are definitely not uh the second thing is there has been a lot of work done about the temperature of these uh Fields the plastic fields and even though there have been some attempts to use new materials the evidence that's out there the the Articles I've read has suggested at most they reduce the the highest temperatures by a few degrees it doesn't really change the potential problems with the with the temperatures on these things should also note that if you take a look if you just Google these things you'll see that these fields are being increasingly banned in other places the EU acted on this just this week and they're being banned in a number of places not totally yet but I think what Eric was saying before is a serious issue that approving this plastic field is a real risk for the for this these towns because of what might happen in the future I also want to say I spoke to Sarah Evans this morning uh who would have liked to have spoken here but couldn't she's a faculty member of the mounts children's health environmental health center who who pointed me to uh some of their articles which say that the studies of the composition of of these surfaces confirm the presence of carcinogens and neurotoxins including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons Benzene and Lead exposure to these chemicals are associated with cancer learning disabilities behavioral problems lower IQ um and these are this is a group that deals with this every day in some uh in clinical and in non-clinical settings so I um I see that my time is almost up there's other things I would have liked to have said but it's getting late for everyone so I'll I'll leave it at that thank you thank you yes sir David Herman can you hear me just on yes All right I submitted earlier today to the Bose a letter supported by up now we're up to 14 groups continue to sign up student groups uh organizational groups within the community supporting ritzer uh the whole point of the letter and I hope you all read it I have serious doubts whether you did because I think some people have their mind made up but the point of the letter was to correct some of the misinformation that's out there some of the misinformation we've heard again tonight um this has to be a decision that's based on facts not on fear okay we've got so much stuff going on in our community that like nobody's happy with right we we're in the news for the wrong reasons again again and the kids are caught in the middle of it we have adults fighting on social media fighting here at Board of Education meetings at boast meetings battles of like lawn signs and we're not listening to each other and I hope people read my letter and are listening to me but if you don't listen to me listen to the kids they told you and if you talk about leadership like these seniors The Freshman is great I give for a ton of credit the seniors who are here this Field's not going to benefit them they've got nothing to gain by sticking their neck on a line and coming and advocating for the girls who come after them they're not going to benefit but that's leadership and we need leadership here from the people on this board and you know you may have made up your mind before you came here but you're not committed to that you know your hand hasn't come off the pawn yet you can change your mind you could do a great thing tonight whatever way you vote you're going to send a strong message one way or another upon what you value you know Marian said it's a moral choice and I agree with you H we should obviously fund the elevator that should be a priority but you also are making a strong strong statement what do you value more this empty Barren decrepit field or these girls you're going to send them a message one way or another and it's up to you what that message will be thank you thank you Mr Herman next speaker please Jessica Herz [Applause] hello hello I'm here tonight to voice my thoughts on the ritzer field proposal I am new to this community coming up on my one-year Mark since moving here before coming here I actually did a lot of research on towns in New Jersey I'm from New York so it was a major deal and one of those things that pulled me towards uh s was the town's ethical values and what I saw as more creative and Forward Thinking than I might expect in more typical Suburbia when I heard about the town's plan to Turf a big green space I was really un pleasantly shocked are these values just for show we cannot possibly think that pouring tons of plastic into the ground will have zero effect on our environment nothing does nothing this will affect the land and community's health physical mental and otherwise there is no doubt about that I'm disappointed that this board would even consider a plan so out of a 99s Playbook and such a reflection of backward thinking I was here at the last um board meeting I heard some people point to school pride as an argument for turfing I go back to my previous mention that in this town we are full of innovative and forward thinkers we can think of ways to beautify and amplify this field and the school's Athletics that doesn't include directly and knowingly contributing to climate change I don't have a child at this school yet but in all seriousness I hope that the inner workings of this school are running like a well-oiled machine before we even begin talking about putting several million dollars towards replacing a field with a field lastly like I mentioned I was at the last meeting and I heard many young women athletes talk about wanting a turf field I'm done thank you next speaker we're now moving to our online public speaks how many uh Mr Burnside do we have signed up around 15 there were some people that showed up in person so I'm just going to pull the board really quick um is does anybody need like a couple minute recess just for the bathroom break or anything like that I know we've been going about 2 and a half hours plus yes okay unless there's any objection we do this you know once a month it's not a problem okay so you're allowed to go to the bathroom once a month my apologies to those who are online but we have been here since 5:30 so we're just going to a very brief five minutes for everybody to stretch their legs use the restroom and then we'll get started on the uh public virtual comments thank you we need a motion to recess motion I I'd like to make a motion that we recess for 5 minutes second all those in favor I I close enough e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e is if everyone could please get seated we're going to start the meeting back uh just waiting on committee menaus oh there there you are all right um boom boom boom boom uh I would like to reconvene this special meeting of the board of school estimate thank you all for your patience as we took a brief recess uh we are now going to move towards public comments uh being held via WebEx Mr Burnside Oli gance hi um are you able to hear me M yes we can hear you um please hold on one moment Mr Burnside are we going to have video of the speakers on web if the Community member wants to turn on their camera they will be on the screen all right thank you all right we can now see you and if possible uh for all members online we'd love if you can turn on video oh boy I was not prepared for that um I'll let you it's okay if you can't um here we go I'm not having a I'm not having a uh let's see if this is working oh it's working oh great I'm not having a good hair day folks so please bear with me um thank you uh for the opportunity to speak my name is Oli Gans and I live on 59 hickon place with my husband my 2 and a half-year-old son and our two greyhounds you all aware of the reasons why my neighbors and I want you to reject the $30 million request from the Boe resolution as we've detailed uh in email sent to you what I'd like to address instead during my two minutes tonight is what this proposal says about our community when my family and I moved to New Jersey we chose to live in s because of its Progressive values and sense of community to us that was worth some of the highest property taxes in the United States the way in which the proposal to turn ritzer field into artificial turf has been handled and how nearby residents have been treated has made me question what s really values first of all about the impact of artificial turf on the environment and the health of those living near it which are backed by science I'd like to point out have been met with eye rolles and name calling even tonight people have alluded to misinformation and ideology which seem like thinly veiled attempts to discredit those who have valid concerns about artificial tur Turf our concerns are neither of those things are rooted in science and they are rooted in the numbers there is a strong sense that for those in Soma who will not be directly affected by this proposal AKA people who don't live directly near Columbia High School the negative effects don't concern them and that us raising these issues is a mere annoyance further there has been no Outreach to those of us who live near Columbia High School about this project none of this makes me feel like I live in a community where people look out for one another the students and their parents who spoke tonight are absolutely right females students at Columbia High School deserve safe and functional facilities to play their Sports and it is a problem that the ritzer field proposal is tied to the rest of this proposal this was a choice by the Boe not those of us who have valid concerns about ritzer field but I want to make clear that turning ritzer field into artificial turf is not the only option in fact nowhere in Title 9 does it require artificial turf I am truly at a loss as to why this is even being considered at this point given the financial environmental and health costs associated with the proposed project I urge you to think about what this says about s do we want to build infrastructure to withstand climate change do we value the voices of res your time is up [Applause] advocate so miss gance ra raised an issue about the Outreach to the community uh Mr Downey it is my standing and please correct me if I'm wrong is that the letter of interpretation process that the district will need to follow does go through a process that requires the notification of people within I believe it's 50 ft or 200 feet I'm sorry thank you for the correction is is is that the process moving forward and will the district agree to making sure that that is a component of the letter of interpretation of course okay and and Mr Downey did I did I state that correctly my question was did I state that correctly the district responded Yes they will follow the process is that the correct process is that once once a a letter of interpretation is sought from the D the required noticing goes out within 200 a feet uh it does I I'm not certain on the 200 ft I do believe it's more than 50 but I'm not sure if it's 200 or 250 okay the applicable whatever whatever the requirement whatever the requirement is okay thank you Miss Gans next speaker please Rebecca schaw hi thank you my name is Rebecca Shaw I'm a resident of hix and place aside from the very real threat that Synthetic Turf poses to the health of athletes neighbors and the environment this project is a financial disaster for our towns the cost and magnitude of this project has already doubled since the original proposal and work had not yet begun and if we do get the $5 million AstroTurf installed The Saga is still just beginning the taxpayers of our towns will be forced to pay for plastic grass maintenance and replacement in perpetuity let's also consider who we would be writing this check to the Boe has repeatedly proven that they're incapable of even the most basic project management or fiscal responsibility just last week they voted to lay off approximately 30 Educators due to Bud budget mismanagement how dare they ask the taxpayers for more funding when they can't even manage the structures finances or employees they currently have everyone in our town should be outraged at the accusations of gender inequity within the CHS athletic department why can't girls teams receive equal play on the 16 Diamond fields we already have I'll say that again we already have 16 Fields but somehow the CHS girls softball team is being denied access to Field Time plastic grass won't fix that problem let's instead come together as the progressive town we claim to be let's demand gender equality within our schools let's learn how to organically maintain natural grass fields that sustain Sports as well as Wildlife let's demand that the elevators be fixed so all students can access class rooms let's fund the Arts and fix the theater these are all causes that better represent the shared Progressive values s residents love to boast about or are we just abandoning our principles for the attempted appeasement of a few loud voices we can do better than that you our elected leaders can do better than that thank you thank you Miss SCH next speaker please Julie Lou can you hear me yes my name is Julie Lou I'm a South Orange resident and I'm speaking to express my concerns on whether an adequate storm water management plan is included in the ritzer turfing proposal I see this matter from two perspectives as a parent of a Columbia High School School female athlete and as a community member concerned about the storm water implications to the adjacent neighborhoods on the lack of equity between female and male athletes I have witnessed this firsthand with my daughter who played on The Freshman girls soccer team this past fall with respect to practices The Freshman girls had limited access to ritzer and were bounced back and forth between floods Hill and Underhill 32 minute and 18-minute walks with heavy backpacks respectively The Freshman boys practiced at ritzer regularly why is access to ritzer currently not split 5050 between the boys and girls yes I want nice fields for my daughter to play on with grass being preferable but I understand that the turfing decision was made years ago so I'm not here to debate that since the turf will be installed it should be done responsibly increasing impervious surfaces without adequate storm water management plans will result in flooding consequences to adjacent neighborhoods I cannot support the installation of turf at ritzer unless there is an adequate storm water management plan the estimate of the turfing project should include the storm water management cost so that the adjacent neighborhoods are not negative negatively impacted with flooding from a financial perspective as you weigh this decision please consider the following why are the stormw management costs not itemized in detail for you to review both from a financial perspective but also to ensure they comply with all state regulations do the storm water conduits in the adjacent neighborhoods have capacity to handle the increased storm water flow from the impervious Turf surfaces has the cost of inspecting and upgrading the storm water infrastructure in the adjacent neighborhoods been included in the turf cost proposal please ensure that the turf project does not negatively impact the adjacent neighborhoods with flooding thank you thank you um I'm actually uh jotting down some questions that are repeat questions but why don't we continue uh with WebEx and then we'll we'll hit the big buckets as need be Mr Kevin manang who is not a student it's good to be back uh good evening uh board members and and fellow residents my name is Kevin Mangini and I live on Hixon place next to richer field with my wife April McKenzie and our 10-year-old Sports obsessed daughter we're a huge advocate for girl Sports and gender Equity however I'm here to express concerns about the proposed artificial turf on rter field we support the quality athletic fields and Equitable use but we have serious issues with the and reservations about this project because of the financial and environmental implications the installation and maintenance of artificial turf represents a significant long-term financial burden the planning process for this project has lacked transparency and a community engagement raising concerns about its environmental and financial viability we advocate for a more sustainable inclusive and financially responsible approach to improving our Town's Fields this one small patch of land is deemed so vital because it's trying to make up for years of an Acres of poor Park maintenance this is a Band-Aid this is not the answer thank you for your consideration of our perspective on this important issue thank [Applause] you Mr Burnside Julia Sommer hello can you hear me yes we can hi I'm speaking um I wish I could be there in person but I just want to underscore all the comments I've heard over the last um hours in of my request that you abandon this plan to put artificial turf on ritzer I think we can see especially in the past week that this um Administration has not shown that they know how to manage finances very um carefully and prudently and so if that is any guide I think it's it's a good sign uh it's a accurate sign that the artificial turf project would also not be managed responsibly from a financial point of view and furthermore the environmental issues have already been discussed but as an environmental educator myself and a former teacher and as a parent of a Colombia High School freshman and two younger children coming down the pike I feel it is so sad to imagine that that field would have fencing and be inaccessible to students just for recreational use and that it be limited to athletes only and I I I feel that the environmental um catastrophes awaiting us and the lawsuits that will follow from those are make this a completely untenable plan so I strongly urge you to um abandon the idea until it is properly studied and the costs are properly itemized and have been vetted by others including the D which is actually my employer thank you very much thank you miss summer um Mr Burnside and Marie Manny Community member Manny uh email to indicate she's no longer available to speak Miss Manny did distribute to everybody though uh lengthy analysis and we specifically asked the Board of Education to look at some of these questions which seem outside of somewhat of our understanding and purview to evaluate any of the questions that that were posed in there or assertions Eric [Music] Len hello can you hear me yes we can very good hello board read my speech my name is Eric L and I am opposed to turfing Mr Levan could you speak louder into your microphone how's this great all right will you reset my timer absolutely thank you my name is Eric Levan and I am opposed to turfing ritzer field to which I live directly adjacent I would like to submit several points of opposition to this proposal firstly the cost estimated at close to 5 million over roughly a decade bonded out how many badly needed repairs could be completed or how many teachers could be hired with that money also maybe double that hypothetical number as it's very likely the final cost of this project will grow as such things inevitably do yet even if the cost were to be far lower than what's already projected it simply does not make sense to spend into the millions to replace a field with a field again this is not a project to turn a vacant concrete lot into usable space secondly as a town resident when has and consider the overall appeal of this project the two main points in support seem to be for field availability sooner after rain and also an increase of General Town allore something about upping our soccer credit that only applies to a small select group focusing on the case for turfing for a turf field having better availability this position highlights that the benefit of a turf field over an existing grass one is really only felt on days following rain during soccer lacrosse softball season for game slated to a current ritzer and when the recent rain was Heavy enough that the turf could have been playable while grass was not assuming it hasn't also flooded those are pretty specific criteria exactly how many such days per year occur anecdotally it happens all the time but this past year were they're were they're 14 were they're six since we're considering spending into the millions to address the scenario it's worth doing Samantha understand the cost per day is it $100,000 per wet Sports season day can anyone provide evidence it's more or less than this for the record I myself have a kid who plays soccer but I recognize that this project would only target a small subset of this town the most sport Centric population is the only group to receive any benefit and again only on specific days that benefit should be weighed against what everyone else stands to lose every nearby labor who brings their kid to the field blah blah blah Sheena you're doing a very good job however this goes I just want to say that thank you oh thank you [Applause] um Mr Burnside and and Boe colleagues um it's now actually been three times that this has been reference so um I would like to just answer this uh as soon as possible uh we have heard from speakers both in person and on WebEx that this is going to only affect a very limited and small number of people I know Deputy Mayor K had inquired to the board of education to provide uh some feedback on how many students this will impact how many individuals will be able to access the fields things of that nature I do have it but I thought it would be best for you all to explain that uh to the community is that we're not specifically talking about just the girls softball team um but but the further review that you did uh would one of you uh like to address that it it I yes our athletic director wanted me to make it very clear that every child that takes physical education at the high school will get the benefit of this field okay so there was a little bit more than that Mr Burnside so there's all the students who take physical education earlier today we heard that it was also expected to impact the marching band it would be soccer it would be field hockey it would be uh softball it would uh is there any additional ones that that are missing from that because it's it's a vast array of Athletics and sports but then also the physical education component and the extended use uh that ritzer would be available and also uh as stated earlier in the meeting project Adventure would also remain is that that is not being eliminated is there is there anything I missed from that I mean I I I've got his email right here you want me to just run through the stats is that what you're looking for yeah absolutely let's let's explore who would benefit uh from this field directly we'll start with how many students are at rolled at CHS on January 19th of this year there are 1,928 students that rolled at CHS all 1,928 students will have the opportunity to utilize the tur at retzer field through their physical educa education classes which at this time is limited in addition physical education will have additional months to use the turf facility as it will not be covered by Turf blankets from November to April how many students are involved in sports and activities we did this by season for the fall we had 499 students for the winter 512 students and in the spring 412 students how many activities are offered at CHS there are 25 athletic programs 26 when you count marching band of the sports activities offered how many of them use ritzer field currently six athletic programs what seasons do sports activities use ritzer in the fall season the boys and girls soccer the marching band and cross country in the winter season currently none that's because of the turf blankets that are put down and in the spring it's boys and girls lacrosse now our anticipated usage would be cheer practice boys and girls soccer marching band cross country and all fall Sports when grass or Underhill is not available due to weather issues or field conflicts and in the winter all sports for conditioning weather permitting and then the spring we would have softball lacrosse and all spring sports for practices when grass is not available great thank you so much for clarifying that um Dr Talis Ford I think we can also add ultimate to that they would have access to this field also and Ultimate Frisbee um board member first vice president V lamani and also this document that was read out is available on the school board's website as an attachment so anyone can go in there and take a look at that there are a bunch more documents in there which actually reflect all the different things that we're talking about great thank you so um first vice president VOD lamman directed everyone to go to the school district website and I believe the attachments as a part of this agenda packet is that where the documents are found the school board's website which is basically the school board's website the drop down from that um you will find uh the anticipated usability of the fields and also the cost estimate um that was provided and uh provided to the board of school estimate from The District in advance of tonight's conversation thank you for buying me the time to look that up real quick oh absolutely uh let's move on to our next WebEx speaker tavani guha hi can you hear me hi Debbie yes yes okay um thank you for the opportunity to speak today I have concerns about the transparency of the bonding request in front of you today I'm troubled by the lack of details and the increase in costs and I'm not sure what is driving this for it sir we know it is doubling the scope of the project what is it for SS according to the Ba's slide today two the two uh there is 2.03 million for riter and 7.79 million for SS that are left over is the current ask in addition to the already appropriated funds if not what happened to the original funds that were bonded before you go ahead and vote on placing three acres of plastic on the one and only natural grass area available to our high school students I urge you to consider a few things just three days ago a small study found that pfas from CHF lingers on players bodies we have all heard about the health effects of PFS PFS including cancer clusters can near hand waving around storm water management can be disastrous for our communities climate change is real and ever stronger storms have caused a lot of local traumas the Boe engineer storm water calculation should be made public so that the best alternatives are used used care should be taken so that existing storm water infrastructure does not get additional load I find it problematic that funding is being requested before the LOI process is done it seems to be backwards as compared to usual processes of obtaining basic permissions before funding requests I urge you to vote no on this request and ask the Boe to come back with detailed asks and plans and include Neighbors in its plan development in the meantime our District administration should develop a field assignment plan that does not disadvantage girls we should save the only natural space that our high schoolers have and make it a robust natural grass playing field that is a model for other towns let's pool Resources with the towns to create a maintenance position for grass fields in our towns and School District if there is Need for more Fields than pursue contractual agreements with neighboring towns thank you Miss guha can hear thank you for sharing that all right I'm gonna mute myself then that's very helpful um so uh to the IT team uh if somebody's just finishing a sentence maybe we just let them finish that sentence a little bit before it's like I urge you to yeah nobody likes that so just a little flexibility to end that last sentence before we cut the mic um and thank you for that Mr Burnside next next speaker Peter mikica hello can you hear me yes we can I appreciate that thank you um and thank you for letting me speak tonight I just wanted to weigh in and add my two cents um and and agree with a little bit what was said earlier by by two of the speakers around I want you to just refocus this conversation a little bit around what it's actually about and that is a funding question uh our elected officials who are in charge of setting policy have already recommended that these plans go forward and get funded so a lot of these comments that are coming up are are very much after the fact um and so I would just urge you to approve the additional funding listen to the Professionals in the room in that we will follow kind of the necessary steps to make this uh a a as safe as possible project for the school and give our students usable fields we have no history across the entire town of being able to maintain the fields that we have to meet the usage required this plan will allow us to do it in the most fiscally responsible way I urge you to pursue it approve the funding and get this done thank you thank you next speaker Charlotte clapes that Community member is not online Cadia cly white hello can you all hear me yes yes hi Dr White we can hear you hi okay please start my time now my uh baby had surgery today so that's why I'm not um I agree with Mr Herman I think you guys can all change your mind um someone just said that you're not talking policy this is not policy we're talking about the fiduciary responsibility that you all have to protect all of the residents of these towns from the board acting irresponsibly and recklessly and that is what's happening here it's what happened when Turf got thrown in in the first place at the last minute and we can't keep making these decisions costing millions and millions of dollars in perpetuity without being thoughtful and reflective on them um I have a bunch of questions one is that cross country uses riter when I was a kid cross country ran cross country I'm a little confused by that I'm also confused about what teams are using the other fields we have that we're spending millions of is it just football and baseball um and in that case if there's only two or three teams using that then it seems like we're not really using the resources we have I'm wondering when I'm listening to all of you talk how much of this sounds like the West Orange meetings and what they look like and the Assurance is given by Architects to officials there before Sean Hall prep's $7 million turfield caused a rock slide that displaced 45 families um and I am really just wondering how the architect can continue to say that grass is difficult and that a public school district can't spend the money needed to maintain it and yet we can spend roughly a half a million dollars a year for Turf um for plastic Turf it makes no sense the replacement value makes no sense the numbers you're given for $600,000 over 24 years when it cost $2.1 million to replace Underhill it feels like y'all are just making up numbers to get this over the field and that's not fair to us as residents not feel to fair to your colleagues as officials plastic tur fields are in fact being impermeable by environmental Sciences if the architect who is serving as an expert there does not understand how much more grass fields can absorb water than plastic Turf I think you guys have a real problem in then respect there thank you Dr White next speaker please oh actually there was a question about cross country specifically would you use ritzer is that correct yes that that is correct I guess when you think of cross country I guess you don't think of three acres running in a circle is that for practice like I can answer that when I did cross country we we would often use fields for conditioning practices so okay sometimes you do a longdistance run but then there are other times when you're doing shorter distance conditioning practices that's good to know all right wonderful um next speaker please Heather Sayes lowski good evening I have not written to any of you or spoken about any of this issue in the past I really thought answers were coming even tonight I didn't sign up until well into the meeting and then we have experts and people from the district who are supposed to be representing a plan that they chose not to bring with them and are asking for you to approve financials but they didn't bring a line out item budget with them it's it's very concerning the entirety of this project not just any portion of it is very concerning because we've seen what happened with the first part some of the buildings that have been added on to already have leaks there's total mismanagement here you need to be asking questions and you need to be transparent with the public what infill material has this quote unquote cooler temperature where is the civil engineer with the information that we keep being told we need what length of warranty is there on this on this artificial turf is it vacated by eating on it as one of the students believes that they can eat lunch on it what is the lawsuit that's being referred to because as a lawyer I've never seen so much of a veil over what's a public document if there's a lawsuit tell us where it is how does no one know how long the other artificial turf lasted you're the people from The District like how long when did we have to replace under Underhill how do you not have that answer tonight when this is what we're here for what happened to the money we already spent who is overseeing that how did you not know that Underhill cost a whole lot more than 600,000 did you factor in inflation it's true we're not here about policy we're here about money you need to figure out where it's going before you can vote on this and whomever chose not to schedule women and girls Sports equally to male Sports should be fired that is disgusting I have much more to say but I know I'm out of time and I don't want to go over I just think that this all really reeks of every other problem this bard of bed has thank you um so there was a lot in there and I didn't want to skip over some very uh pointed questions so um can we just recap again how was the money already spent I think you provided a little bit of that explanation earlier on but here you are now we do know the scope change for ritzer um which went from north of 2 million to now north of 4 million and I think we can specifically see that it's doubling in scope so that makes sense we do know from our Board of Ed colleagues the addition of the girls locker room um is a new expense under consideration so once you remove those two bucket items uh then you have you know roughly 20 million plus with uh changes um can you speak a little bit more to that I I realize the whole plan is in front of you we we have the construction cost in in the document that was posted to the website and also distributed to the board of school estimate members can we just regroup on first an overview of those changes second we've heard terms like Financial mismanagement Etc here I I think this is also where Miss no Miss tartaglia can talk about project management and the process of holding vendors accountable Etc um and then Mr Burnside if there is anything additional that you would like to add to some of these questions about overall how is the information being shared where are these line item budgets um I want to address this because it's it's been repeated a couple times and and I want to make sure uh we're we're all on the same page so Mr Downey can I start with you to talk and just give another recap of the higher level overview of these changes outside of the new additions we're considering certainly yeah so when the original uh long range facility plan program was started sorry when the original long range facility plan program was was put into action there were a series of improvements across all the buildings that uh were spanning over a period of years certain projects were put up front elementary schools were done first then uh the uh the other projects Underhill the high school the middle school so um the first couple of projects that were bid uh we received bids that were uh on or under budget but we then ran into uh issues related to The covid Fallout the impact that that had on the construction markets which was significant in terms of escalated prices lead time issues with equipment mechanical equipment electrical equipment in particular are still problematic across the industry so um that led to higher bids that began escalating so the the reason we're talking specifically about uh the middle school here was that that was the last project in the chronology so as the cost escalated some of the projects were over budget and that impacted the overall uh budget now there were some references in the last couple of callers um I think and there's a lot of numbers being thrown around so it's perfectly understandable obviously but there are some numbers that I think are not apples and apples in terms of the comparison so Underhill for example there was more involved in the work at Underhill than just the turf so the cost there is is broader than just the turf also in the comparison the use comparison that we had prepared where we um looked at a 24-year window comparing grass to Turf uh we did include a replacement of the turf uh at that midpoint in the cycle roughly 12 years that budget is different than the original first cost budget which includes the entire system including the under the under structure and so forth that replacement would be strictly the turf layer so again not exactly the same comparison um so those that's why those numbers can you repeat that you just said something new there that was interesting so in the 24 years you anticipated at 12 that the turf would be replaced so that it would be Apples to Apples of a 24e lifespan correct we were trying to give a what we thought was a a reasonable comparison right if if we had just looked at the initial cost we we didn't feel that really gave us a a balance in the comparison because it is true that at roughly the 12E point you need to do typically you need to do a replacement of the turf surface okay so that's why we chose a 24-year window so that the cost numbers we used would Encompass that 12year change which is an added cost related to the turf um but it's not a full system replacement so the turf has a base it has an underst structure those systems will last two or more life cycles of the field it's the field Turf the top layer itself that sees the the playing action and that's the surface that wears app so the replacement at roughly 12 years is is not the full system but just that top layer that has to be considered and and so the other question too that got brought up and I I know this is in front of us but it's worth repeating what I heard earlier in the meeting is that uh about half the projects came in over budget half the projects came in under budget but because South Orange Middle School is later in the timeline is that once all of those adjustments were made the full amount needed to complete the middle school is short not because of scope creep and that wow it's way out of whack with every other project but because that money is I use the term fungible you put the money in allocation towards the projects that are being done first and then the projects that are being done last such as the ones we're considering tonight are the ones that have a shortfall and need the Gap uh financing is that correct that's correct okay um and Mr Burnside was there anything in particular about the financial comments that you wanted to add I'll wait until this last comment okay online and then I'll make a statement great thank you um how many more um excuse me do we have we have two more okay uh first vice president vad lmani so I mean we look at a lot of these numbers and it is confusing I mean there's no doubt about that but what the way I like to look at things is to look at comparables you know I me if you bought a a Honda Civic and I bought a Honda Civic the chances are we spend the same amount of money yeah sure I mean we can have extra things in there but so if you look at the actual amount expended for MMS this real numbers is is about $21 million MMS and CHS I mean and SS are very similar in schools they hold the same number of people more or less and they have the the numbers are very similar we're not we're not there's a reason there's a reason why we don't have people talking in middle of public speaks yes please continue so they're very similar in schools and they both hold about 1500 kids more or less give or take so if one cost 21 million other chances are very high that the other one is going to be 21 million too give or take you know 10% here there it's not like CHS CHS is huge so if you wanted to spend on CHS it would be much more expensive so that's kind of I think the way I would kind of compare against what is happening in Psalms without knowing the details of what's Happening thank you that's helpful um let's go back to the I think we have one more virtual and one in person two virtual one in person correct next up is Amelia Connelly okay Community member Conley you're online hi my name is Amelia Connelly um I'm a fifth grader and I live in Maplewood U I want to apologize for missing the meeting earlier because I was at a soccer practice at a different turf field in nework um recently my my team has won a soccer trophy for um the u12 girls and we had to we had to um run a different field to win the trophy because we didn't have tur Fields here um I do support this long range faculty plan because it it's not just for the um future it's not just for the teams now it's for the future I also want to thank the softball players that spoke earlier because they're speaking up for softball players like me in the future Generations um so I have a question for Nancy Adams why do you think it's okay to have Fields closed through November and March and can you name me a field in New Jersey a grass field that is open through November and March Miss Connelly um we're g to just finish with your statement and then we'll answer questions at the end did did she leave yes oh okay so uh when we get into discussion all right next public speaker Linda Beck hi there can you all see me hear me we sure can uh in 1965 Ralph nater wrote a book that was the Catalyst for a number of changes in Auto Safety while 65% of people originally pulled believe that they shouldn't be forced to wear a seat belt perhaps they were persuaded when data gathered between 1975 to 2017 revealed that seat belts had saved an estimated 374,000 lives the Congress people who went against the grain and shuttled that legislation through planted themselves on the right side of history in the 1920s cesil Drinker was sent to Orange New Jersey to do a safety inspection of a factory that employed 300 young women Drinker discovered that the factory was heavily dusted with radium contaminated contam contaminated part particulates and that the women were wearing no protection against the cancer-causing agent the United States radium Corporation newly keened the dangers to its workers chose to bury Drinker report and carry on with no changes to make it safer thankfully the publicized mistreatment of the doomed radium girls led to a series of state and federal legislation to protect workers by some Brave legislators despite pressure from some loud voices in opposition you've read in numerous letters from our Som residents and heard tonight and on other nights the scientific data clearly showing the detriment of microplastics and pfas on our bodies Our waterways our soil and our air preventing this turf field installation means that you will land like those advocating for seat belts on the side of Public Safety there are loud voices here on both sides but it's clear what the right choice is to keep this community safe and healthy your neighbors and the youth you're cheering on from the sidelines or coaching to success will thank you in the long run for putting their long-term Health First vote no let's revisit this Bond and this time leave the tur field out of it let's invest in a way for our kids to play on natural grass yes the field was previous previously approved but we know now more than we did then repairs on an archaic elevator were also approved in that proposal and tonight we learned that perhaps that bit needs another look too uh thanks for having me thanks for letting me speak and for all you thank you Miss Beck and then I believe now we're on to Mr humer I think it's in the front yep we will ready okay uh David ymer thank you for your diligence regarding our tax dollars and public facilities I have two specific reasons for speaking tonight first you should vote know on what's in front of you tonight not necessarily forever but till you get better information you've had shrink flation it's the only thing that explains the arithmetical impossibility of aspects of this work coming in over budget and yet the total projects coming in under budget it means things were left out if you don't have a list of what was left out your vote Yes tonight means that you may not fulfill the priorities that were established by the longrange facility plan in the absence of such a list you should vote no once you get the list you can vote Yes or No the second reason I'm speaking is to seize the opportunity presented by having all three government entities South Orange mate board and the school board together in discussing field space and recreational facilities and I want to urge you to establish a Joint Task Force or joint committee on shared recreational Services open space and field maintenance speaking for the history of Maplewood we have an added recreational field space since title 9 do I need to repeat that we haven't added recreational field space since map voters voted twice to tax themselves for an open space trust fund we've collected millions of dollars in seven years and spent zero on open space for recreation purposes okay the open space trust fund is a stream of money that can service debt on land acquisition and environmental cleanup you're going to have to use & domain where and poor you're going to have to do environmental cleanup Maplewood has done it successfully in the past I'll be happy to tell you the history of the DPW site which was purchased for a dollar you have an opportunity working together to deal with this issue which has been identified for a generation is lacking in our community and to do it much more effectively than doing it by yourselves please consider that thank you all right I'm I believe we made our way through all the public comments All right so we're going to we're going to close the public comment period and now we are going to move into um discussion uh but i' first turn it over to Mr Burnside or any of the professionals on any feedback or answers that I might have missed that were brought up during the public comment period um and then we'll go from there I just want to address the accusations of financial mismanagement I've heard that more than once tonight not a lot but enough that I feel we should make a statement as the individual responsible for overseeing construction funds I stand firmly behind the integrity and transparency of our financial management practices our commitment to accountability is evident through rigorous scrutiny of our financial processes by our community Auditors Architects board members County business administrator and various oversight bodies our annual audits serve as a testament to our dedication to fiscal responsibility these these audits have always shown adherence to established protocols and regulations moreover the thorough reviews conducted by audits ensure that allocated funds align with project requirements and accounting standards furthermore the Vigilant oversight provided by board members and the county business administrator offers an additional layer of assurance regarding the appropriate allocation and utilization of construction funds each transfer of funds underg goes meticulous scrutiny before approval safeguarding against any potential discrepancies I also want to EMP emphasize that there has been categorically no misappropriation of funds under my supervision our committee meeting serve as transparent forums where questions are asked concrete data is reviewed and decisions are made collectively and in accordance with established protocols the business office remains fully committed to upholding the trust placed in US by our community and stakeholders and we will continue to prioritize transparency and accountability in all our endeavors thank you Mr Burnside for that statement um is there anything additional from the professionals on the project um just I guess to add uh commentary related to Mr Burnside statement sorry uh related to Mr side statement we haven't spoken about it tonight but because the topic of how money has been spent has been on the table it's worth probably mentioning that those projects that have been contracted and completed have been completed with very low percentages of change orders um considering the age of the buildings considering the size of the Improvement program and considering that even those change orders that did arise roughly 90% of them were because walls were opened up and conditions were found that could not be observed in advance so I think um it just highlights that you know this has been a program that has been implemented carefully and successfully uh to date in terms of managing those costs thank you anything ma'am thing um I would add was um in this there's been some um people suggesting that scope's been cut and things have been cut um from the day I started on this and we put the very first first projects out to bid the projects have remained in place and we've not cut anything out of any project until we got to the high school the high school is the only project where we were so over budget and in a collective group thinking it was determined that the addition could go but the the entire um remaining project of the high school stayed with the exception of the stuff that's on the board for tonight which is the guidance Suite um and so anyway as we keep going down the road that's how we get to sums being short because there's really nothing to cut and we've never we never even intended to try to cut it we've built every project to date with its full scope that we that was in the original plan that's that's very helpful um and I think that was brought up by Our Last speaker is that um so there was clearly a consensus on the board of education is that CHS needed a reduction in scope but everything within the long range facilities plan has been proceeding as adopted by the board in 2019 with the exception of the expansion of scope obviously to the girls locker room that's being proposed and also the expansion of scope uh for ritzer but every other item has been completed and checked off um there was also a reference earlier to Underhill um and comparing underhill's cost to the scope Underhill uh for those who don't know I mean it also got a Press Box visitors bleachers home bleachers I mean you know there it's it's more than just a turf field I mean it was the entire facility you know understood always always sometimes tough to make that comparison y I know we're we're all looking for for that Apples to Apples and then sometimes it doesn't even exist even with your Honda Accord because I might have actually had a coupon so and then I I turn it over to our Board of Education colleagues is that I know both both of you are on the finance facilities and Technology Community do you feel confident about the management of funds uh the information that's shared with you from the district your other professionals your bond counsel your Auditors Etc I know that a lot of those conversations it's not fair to presume that they don't happen but rather they happen within committees that are sometimes not like this meeting I would say yes um the discussions that we have and analyses that we have of the products are very detailed and I don't think there's anything that's ever been mismanaged in terms of How It's presented and what you're doing with these projects thank you uh Mr VOD lamman anything to add I mean just that I mean these are opaque numbers to understand they're difficult to understand we don't know what it means I mean at least I'm not an accountant I don't know some of the terms but that's why I use some of the mental models to come up with things and we've had many audits like for example last year we had multiple audits the federal we had a federal audit we had qac we had we had so many other things and in each one it's come back saying that we're doing well so to me even though I not an expert all the other experts are audit I love audits because they tell me that either if something is wrong we fix it or there's nothing wrong and we've not found anything on this is the first time you're sitting amongst other people who would say we love audits all right so let us open up for board discussion um I don't have any particular order but I just ask that you let somebody else speak before you speak twice so I'm happy to open up I'm I'm certainly not going to put a Time limitation on any of my colleagues so whoever would like to go first please feel free to take it away mayor Adams yes um I was just typing up some notes because there's been a lot said tonight obviously since we've been here four hours yeah um as mayor colum mentioned Deputy Mayor kpe and I were personally addressed during at least one member of the Public's comments it's frustrating to me that not only are Miss kpe and I supposed to agree with this expenditure for artificial turf but we're supposed to come up with a solution for long-standing inequities for female athletes in the schools I don't think that's either one of our jobs and no one in this oh great figures I'm getting call sorry my daughter um no one is opposed to Equitable um proper Equitable Fields Equitable field scheduling but that is not in our purview on the one hand we're not policy makers but on the other hand we're we're expected to address that issue but so that I think that was a little bit unfair as a criticism but as an elected official I and every other elected official here are guided in part of course by our own life experiences how could we not be elected official 's personal and professional experiences are often what makes them qualified to serve my opinions on the issues before us are based on my experiences as a mother a mother of athletes a mother of non-athletes as an athlete myself facts of Science and opinions of residents on both sides of this issue added to this is the fact that Maplewood residents have twice voted by referendum against the installation of artificial tur twice two different populations in fact while the Board of Ed vote to move forward with the expansion of the first version of richer ritzer is a policy when policy requires additional funding it's not simply a yes or no but of course opinions on the project questions about the process questions about the amount money being requested it's our fiscal responsibility for those of us sitting up here right now to evaluate all of it and just because you disagree with me on an issue or if I disagree with you it shouldn't be taken personally and personal attacks shouldn't be made on either side it was implied that an email was sent and I didn't read it because I had already made up my mind as did the speaker I looked at my email was sent at 2:34 this afternoon while I was at the courthouse serving jury duty then driving home making calls for both work and my responsibilities as mayor I didn't look at my email before coming here to this meeting and I'd appreciate some difference to the lives that we as elected officials also lead besides spending hours and hours of our time trying to wrestle these important issues so framing this the other thing is framing this decision on Equity is unfair and untrue as I said before I doubt that there is anyone in this body especially in these towns as opposed to equity and I have already publicly gone for equity in women women's history month is just an example of something that was completely ignored on a public level by this community and I would guess by the school system because my kids didn't learn about women in history while they were going through the schools not specifically and not during March so there are Equity issues aside from from Fields but there are Equity issues throughout and all of us I would bet are in favor of them once pointed out then we can do something about them so to this body and to the administration I'm very very disappointed by the lack of information and I have to agree with the caller as as one of the most recent callers was speaking I was at the same time typing that we don't have an expert here on artificial turf fields or natural turf fields or any kind of fields or any kind of Maintenance and yet that is the biggest issue that is before us at least from The public's point of view and that's who we're get what we're getting um calls and and emails about but we have an architect who self-described as not being an expert in it and that's that's really what we needed here tonight and that's frustrating um we need information on building and maintaining both um we don't have an environmental expert at all so how and and as the caller said how do we not have a line item budget for when a question is raised that we can answer it or you can answer it on our behalf um there's no design for the drainage and detention system nor a line item in presentation but we're told that the whole cost of the analysis for both fields in the analysis for both Fields the cost of the drainage was included but other line items were called out so that didn't make any sense to me um the njd question is one that I also agree with one of the public members that process has to take place and we're being forced to vote on something and we may not even be able to build and there's no answer to that other than an engineer when I'm married to an engineer I wouldn't give him that responsibility to go out and say oh yeah we need to we probably aren't in the wetlands so I'm disappointed in that so now we're going to be asked on something to vote on something tonight that we have so many unanswered questions about and accusations of misinformation when we need to have that information on both sides of this issue the elevator question is a vitally important one and it's rather disturbing that something so old that takes weeks to get parts for to fix has not already been included in this plan for replacement and it's it over overwhelms all the other issues we're even talking about as far as importance so these are things that are um it may when when we have uh budget workshops first of all we have as we all know as many as necessary in public we go line by line by line we fight over like is that car really old enough to be replaced or I mean but we feel I think we all feel that that's our responsibility fiscally and it's our fiduciary responsibility to this community when bonding taxpayer money to have every question answer ability to answer every single question that's asked at a meeting like this when we're about to vote on $30 million so yeah I guess we're um the financing of 30 million and then expected to vote on it without accurate information for every line and I am not um by the way implying that there's any malfeasance that there's any deliberate hiding of any information Mr Burnside that but the reason that you feel the need to say that I feel like is because there's not full information out there and when there's not full information that's when everybody starts talking on social media and that's when everybody starts questioning and that's when things become contemptuous and that's when it becomes hard to answer questions because there's a perceived lack of a perceived lack of honesty because there's information that's not available even on a night like this when we spend 4 hours trying to figure out whether or not we should vote yes or no on this the other part of it not being decoupled when the most contentious issue is going to make people like you know who might not be in favor of the additional artificial turf to the existing artificial turf that was approved in 2019 not being called out that and that feels like a little bit of a hostage situation like if I don't vote on this now it's going to be spun in the public that I was against the girls locker room I'm against the improvements to all the other places in it when that's not true but that's what position it puts me in so I personally don't even want to vote on this tonight until we have the answers to the questions that were called out the little Post-It note that mayor call mentioned on each one of those things the sticky the sticky so that's that's where I sit right now um I don't think we're ready to vote on it I think it would be really unfair in the meantime while we're waiting to see if we fund this go to njd start that process of the LOI it's a 6 to eight month process so why not start it $1,500 that's how much the fees are for $30 million project I mean 4.8 $30 million Bond fa yeah so that's all I have to say I'm sorry I went on so long but it's a lot you're allowed to speak as long as you like mayor Adams um next speaker chairwoman oh I'm sorry can I just ask a question sure a speak I'm sorry A M you mentioned earlier at the beginning of the meeting uh that we would get to the ninja moment there's a ninja moment and we are at the ninja moment so uh perhaps it could be helpful to everyone here if we address the ninja possibilities here in term and what I'm saying here uh you know I'm being silly but what I'm saying is what are the action possibilities tonight what can we do what can we not do what if we don't take action tonight what does that mean what is our timeline and so on and so forth okay um so um Mr AER who is here as our Board of school estimate attorney mayor mayor come I'm Sorry Miss kpe was called out a bunch in the public comments and you gave mayor Adams a chance is there a possibility that M Cree can did you want the procedural question answered or would you like to go first I would like to go first yes by all means my apologies about that go right ahead her mic's not working oh wait hold on no no you want move over no it just came on I'm good good all right um mayor Adams actually shared pretty much all of my feelings about it um this entire issue in regards to the bond but the first thing that comes to mind for me is the idea around financial responsibility to our community has to deal with tears the ideas of priorities and we talked a lot about our girls being valued we talked a lot about a need for the fields we talked a lot about the media compliant on the elevator um what was the priority list and how long have we known that these have been problems why all of a sudden is this Bond referendum Being Framed very much as mayor Adam stated as if we don't do this then we're against the girls it's offensive it's insulting and it's absolutely inaccurate ADA compliance and Title 9 have been enacted over for decades whose job was it to keep an eye on this why won't was weren't these items on the list why wasn't our our athletic director held accountable for the fact that male Sports were prioritized over female sports for decades this is not something that just happened this has been going on for a very long time but because we're not willing to sign off on things immediately we're being framed as against the girls and as a girl and as a girl athlete and as a mom of a girl athlete who went to CHS and was a cheerleader who could not practice on Underhill field because as cheerleaders you have to get on the ground with short skirts and your bottom would catch on fire we sat on towels and did the work so do not tell me that even during the summer months they can use the field not if they have to get on the ground on it they can run on it but they certainly cannot sit and stretch on it it's a risk you can be injured and we did have girls injured so the idea that these things were not put at the top of the list mindboggling second of all we have an obligation to our community not only of people whose parents who are parents with kids in the schools but of seniors of retirees of people who are limited access funds and the idea that we're just expected to raise taxes to pay for it is irresponsible when the questions haven't been answered and to and the idea that there's people who live in the neighborhood who were never even invited to the conversation about what's going to affect their neighborhood is offensive isn't ritzer field one of the retainers of water for the entire neighborhood over there so if we're going to be putting this together and trying to feasibly put together a a water structure plan that's not going to in Impact our our current infrastructure how does that math work out when the field is the current water structure it's got to go through that field to get to the river I don't understand why so many of these questions and H field maintenance come on we have that problem even within our Township we're quite aware that our people are not trained well enough to do what job they need they don't have the equipment that they need but we're trying to get there we don't have it right now and just as if we were doing our own personal home budgets we don't have it in our power to make that Disney trip or that new car happen we cannot afford at this time with all these unanswered questions and and a responsibility fiscally to our people to make this kind of expense a reality so yes there are some people who are like oh you've come in with your answer already yes I do because we have to be more responsible fiscally and we're not with all these unanswered questions and we also need to hold people accountable for the work that they're supposed to be doing and if maintenance if Athletics if whoever is not doing the job of making sure Equity is a reality it's not on us to fix it it's on the administration don't blame me don't blame Nancy don't blame any no vote for this we didn't do this this was done by somebody else over a long time fix it get us the answers we asked [Applause] for uh thank you thank you uh Deputy Mayor kpe and um I'm just going back to Mayor daff's sorry not mayor daffis it's all these titles Committee Member daf you know um had asked what are the options here and um so what I was saying to you Mr AER you didn't even have to turn your mic on is um one thing you'll learn is like in third grade I read Robert's Rules of Order it is my favorite book I am a parliamentary fifth grader ninja so um in the Ninja moment what I would uh suggest is there are unlimited possibilities for the board of school estimate and um depending on what I was hoping we could do is after discussion kind of get a consensus on what we'd like to do moving forward and then we figure out the mechanism to best do that um your your options are always to take this pass it your option is to take it vote it down your option is to take it and table it and send it back your option is while there is not a sever opportunity because there's not an NJ dooe line item associated with ritzer is that we ask our Board of Education Partners if we could take a temporary recess and draft a resolution that amends uh what was presented and send that back as a as amended from the board of school estimate um back to the actual board of education for consideration um there's an option to postpone this not table it but postpone it to either a certain date or indefinitely um there's uh I mean there's numerous potential and as I communicated to the district um on numerous occasions as much as I feel strongly about a certain way that I'm going to vote I would never want for my colleagues one of those moments of like you destroyed the district you didn't support everything all the construction projects are not going to happen because of you that's just it's this is not Congress that's actually what happens in Congress it's like in order to get aid for Ukraine you need to support the border wall we're a small community here if we need to figure out ways to make sure all members are heard and that the intent of the body is articulated without shaming anyone uh that will always be my preference for those of you not familiar how this board of school estimate will work is that you do need a majority of the municipal members so that means at least at least four have to support it in order to advance it if there is a 3 three split it dies you have to have a majority here and while our Board of Ed Liaisons are able to vote it's kind of um they're here they're supporting it they were part of the nine who unanimously unanimously support it but you need a majority of the municipal Partners in order to advance this as proposed so um those are the different possibilities so if we can finish up the discussion we kind of see where the majority of the board would like to go we could be as accommodating until Mr AER says I'm going to out ninja you and uh no that's not a viable option so far very well said again oh thank you so much did you like that postpone indefinitely one yeah I like that one too um so uh why don't we continue with the discussion and um uh board members and alternates of course obviously everybody is able to speak and share any insights seriously sure um I absolutely respect the history of this issue uh and hearing so many um residents expressed concern those in the immediate um area right by riter but also hearing our young student athletes we're the fact that they refer to student athletes as student athletes means that we you can't just separate those those two things so hearing about all the improvements in the schools and looking at all the schools that did get the especially thanks for the pictures Mr burners side um it also makes me feel as a former student athlete who was able to navigate being in a tough situation and sports took me to a life of opportunity um it felt good from a leadership standpoint to hear those young student thetes speak tonight um the fact that one was a freshman was just amazing and so while we can argue all day about anything as elected officials I think as a community we should all be celebrating it there were young student athletes that took time out of their day they weren't on Twitter they weren't on Tik Tok they weren't on Instagram they were here because it means that much to them we should celebrate that um and what I know I came in feeling very strongly to vote one way I was in South Florida with my son with a trainer and had to fly back here just for a few hours just to get on a flight back at 6:15 in the morning to go back be back with my son it was TR my 13-year-old son is by himself because I was that passionate about I think the passion is is seeping through all of us we're all passionate about being here and it means a lot to us our community members are here I came in feeling one way but I felt like I wanted to be a part of the process and here um the pros and the cons I wanted to hear more details while there are a few things missing I still feel strongly about how I would vote and it would probably be in support and I know that that in in in this day and age um might Garner some booze and and you know maybe some cheers because that's how we do our politics but the truth of the matter is I don't see it that binary I see it as a really tough complicated situation that is gone on for a long time this long-term facility plan um from a policy standpoint um I I'm I'm here to vote on more of the like like we said whether or not this the bonding issue is something that I feel comfortable moving forward with and I do have some reservations I do have some hesitations I do have some questions that I w't answer but I also do have very strong feelings about those student athletes that we in here um from an equity standpoint you know I grew up with three sisters they were my first Heroes when it came to sports and so um my my sister just did the the Selma ride two days ago where you know she's on the bridge on a on on a bicycle with her friends that are running and so I think we're Limited in how we're thinking about the sports and we need to expand our our view on it because it doesn't just set up high school leaders um it for me um allowed me to be a leader in other areas allowed me to be an elected official allowed me to lead my family allows me now to coach I heard one of the coaches speaking uh I coach three Sports and Lord knows I don't have any free time but I do it because I understand what being a student athlete can do for a person the opportunities that can provide now to be put in this position to say if I don't support it if I vote no that doesn't mean I hate sports that doesn't mean I don't believe in Title Nine I I I I appreciate the ch alleng that that puts us all in um but this is kind of where we are I would love to hear where the procedural opportunities would be where we can maybe um work around it but all we're going to do is be kicking a can down the road eventually we have to decide on this and it's going to be a tough decision I do think that the questions when it comes to um storm water retention and detention we need those answers I do think that there's some um specifics in terms of what we would ask an engineer that we want to make sure that um those questions are asked but at the same time in this tough situation being an elected official we got to make tough decisions and for me I I I with all the reservations I still would probably vote you you know I guess I don't know if we're straw polling it but I'm in support of of us finally getting through this getting Beyond talking about it and doing it and I'm also in this community of and and I'll I'll finish up by saying this I'm in this community Community I get to coach what is considered we won a national championship in U1 football we were in the national championship in u12 football um I am the head coach so it's my obligation to say we will we will win the national championship at you13 all right um our basketball team a basketball team is number five in the nation I've coached several all-americans and track one that was celebrated here in our local paper a 10-year-old and why do I say that I say that because I am in contact with some of the best young athletes in the entire State and then locally I see how a lot of those athletes are deciding to go other places and I know that we want to pretend like oh well it's no big deal but at the heart of that is people are going other places for options and for communities and for schools that they feel for whatever right wrong or indiff they feel support sport a little more um they they feel as though they're getting more support in other places and we can pretend like that's not a big deal but one of the most galvanizing moments for any Community is to watch I two years ago or three years ago there's a Maplewood Middle School girls team I didn't know any of those girls but I heard about them being undefeated I didn't know any of those girls I don't live in Maple I live in South Orange but I heard about these girls being undefeated and how people are now coming to the games and so I think there are a lot of things that we do very well as a community I just want to make sure that supporting student athletes and understanding how how student athletes can navigate A Whole New World such that students will be here on a Monday night advocating for themselves some on WebEx a freshman showing up there were two captains here there's some pride that also is available in sports and so I I would be in support of it despite the challenges I would love to make sure that we dot the eyes and cross the te's so I can get over those ch challenges um I'm also guilty of being a little biased because of the world that I live in but also the world that was made available to me because someone gave me opportunity and challenged me to be a student athlete and so that's how I feel about it so thanks everyone for coming and sharing your feelings on it thank you trusty Brown and and I have to give a little bit of a plug because there's a little like star stuckness um but we did receive all the questions about Turf injuries things of this nature for the record B Brown when he is not an honorable trustee is also a former NFL player so uh when people use statistics about what the NFL is or isn't doing he was also a Collegiate athlete for Notre tame um is that uh we're lucky and fortunate to have somebody uh with that knowledge of what we hear uh from our community I I tried out for the NFL um I didn't quite make the team so it is it is actually valuable uh to have somebody with that level of knowledge about maintenance costs uh players what players like and so uh thank you trusty Brown for um sharing and imparting some of that knowledge at least in South Orange as we've moved through this discussion um Madam president can I go next absolutely trusty Hilton it's very difficult to go right after trusty Brown so this happens to me all the time but but it's also an honor to serve with you but you know it's always always hard to hard to follow that that act um none of us ran for office to be popular right at the end of the day we we take our jobs we take our jobs very seriously we take the literature very seriously we get every email that comes and these issues are complicated right there isn't a one right answer for these things um they're hard decisions but the board of school estimate it's our job to look at the whole Community right the policy makers the experts in education you guys have major recommendation and now it's our job to look at the money and say is this being spent appropriately is this the best value to our community um my primary problem with my primary issue coming into tonight was ritzer field um uh but now that I've had the opportunity to listen I am concerned with other aspects of the the um proposal um but overall I have three areas of concern that run my life as a trustee which are governance good governance transparency as well as Financial um responsibility and I really see little issues some issues with all three in all three of those departments um so I also do want to do a shout out to the students and I know that everybody is but I just have to add my voice to that and that we may they may disagree with my decision on the turf field but I really do applaud their their spunk and I've had the opportunity to meet with a bunch of people a bunch of them individually as well as in groups and um I just am so um looking forward to the future because these these girls are articulate and they're passionate and I hope that they will um continue their uh Endeavors and their advocacy for for the good work that that they're going to do and we're going to fix this Equity ISS um in our district but I'm really looking forward to the ninja moment and moving moving us forward tonight I'll have to figure that one out um so uh anything else trusty Hilton on your side um other members sure I will go now um so I think I'm the only one of the municipal folks besides our alternate Miss Greenberg that has kids in our district right now I have a daughter at uh tusin and two at MMS and my head my concern about waiting to to vote or tabling or any of that is um my concern for the South Orange middle school students and I don't even I live in Maplewood I don't even go there but um I mean I know in mms the ceiling is falling down the school's falling apart I was a parent going through went to all the workshops that was probably the first way I got involved was going listening to our old superintendent Acting Superintendent um Mr farara talking about how one of the reasons our buildings got into the situation was because we moved maintenance money over to other areas of the operating budget I heard that happen again last week I'm very concerned I feel like we're at a point where we need to put a shot of money into our facilities in order to get our buildings and our Fields back up so that people can use it Sports in our towns are unequitable there's no middle school sports there's no Elementary School sports there's recck programs if you have money you can play club team because you can't actually play recck programs in our town you have to go elsewhere and in high school there's so many incoming freshmen who don't even want to play because they've never had the opportunity to play before and there's no field for them to play on now whether it's at school or in our two towns I wasn't even thinking about the fact that the turf blankets are on the fields from November till April until that was brought up so I don't know where the kids are going outside to get fresh air to move their bodies and even if they're not an athlete I know the importance to mental health to be outside for that teamwork to move your body to get exercise it's so important it just changes the way that your mind thinks you know um move a muscle change of thought and so I just I'm very nervous to hear the conversation that we might wait to pass this and the middle school students may not get the improvements to their building and the girls locker rooms won't be better and our fields are just going to be down and no one's going to be able to play sport so that would be my concern about waiting or tabling cuz I don't know how much longer we all can wait and when we talk about the votes that failed for Turf at Dart in Maplewood there are a lot of people that knew that riter was going to get turfed when they voted for whether tart should get turfed and when we talk about climate change and environmental concerns all that is real but this is one field and it's not going to fix our problems we have a serious issue an infrastructure issue that we need to think about and if it's an issue with the school budget that there's not enough funding that there's not enough money for Capital Improvements there's not enough funding for infrastructure and maintenance let us help you let us talk to our officials in the state in the in the federal government and figure out how to fix that because it's an issue and it's an ongoing issue and there's got to be other ways that we can help for the future because we can't just put maintenance off we can't not fix our buildings we can't let our kids sit in classrooms where there's rain falling through the ceiling so we have to figure out a way to move forward thank you got elected officials bringing the fire tonight um any uh alternates you're you're certainly welcome to add anything we appreciate that and if it's okay yes I will go next um okay so um I have a few things to share um I'll start at the outset with my conclusion um as a good lawyer trained in law school you start with your conclusion and then you work backwards explaining how you arrived at your conclusion then you restate your conclusion so if I were able to vote tonight uh I would vote in favor of moving forward uh I'm not pleased that the resolution is presented the way that it is and like others I have uh concerns that we talked about but let me explain why I would vote in favor um first of all I want to give kudos to our chairwoman tonight I thought that you ran a great meeting thank you for that uh tensions were high and there was a lot to be said and a lot of people to get through and you led us uh efficiently and with big heart uh and you were very inclusive and professional the whole time and we expected nothing less and you delivered and thank you uh I also want to thank everyone who spoke tonight including our students and their parents and all of The Advocates on both sides of this issue I respect I have friends on both sides of this issue I do and you're all amazing and eloquent and we thank you for your emails too and all of the stuff that we get all the time uh not just during public comment for four hours tonight um but when I take the 30,000 fet above the ground perspective as a public servant for me personally my job is is no matter my personal opinion no matter my ideology or values my job is to serve the entire public as a Maplewood Township Committee Member I don't belong to a district I serve at large as a member of this body I don't belong to a district or a constituency I serve both towns Som or mapso whatever your preference is right so for me you've got to take this very complicated issue and the pros and cons and the good points that were made on either side yay or nay and you have to balance you have to find balance that is what's missing in governance right now to talk about governance locally across the country and in our federal uh Representatives not all of them we have a great one um that is what's missing we've become polarized we uh are in incredible uh we're in the space of gacha moments we we want to demonize we want to personalize um but we're not really finding a way to serve our communities and the way to do that is to find balance and to see where you can be as practical as you can be for me reliable accessible and Equitable access to both organized Sports and general physical activity is not as someone quoted tonight frivolous it is a health and wellness issue and to vote in support of an artificial turf field for purposes of Equitable reliable access to organized Sports and physical activity is not as someone said here tonight is not insensitive to energy and climate resiliency we can do both we can have both and we do in Maplewood and in South Orange we are incredible champions of energy and climate resiliency we've receiv received numerous honors across the state we have led the state in Maplewood in particular on so many green initiatives and policies related to climate resiliency and storm water management such so that there are State bills and legislation which mirror what we started here in small little 26,000 proud residents of little Maplewood New Jersey so we can and we do and we will but to have an artificial turf so that we can provide the uh what's been missing in terms of reliable accessible and Equitable access to organized Sports and physical activity is not to say that we're no longer caring about the planet or about our climate Okay it is an important health and wellness issue it need not be one or the other again balance and in terms of practicality it is not practical to just do nothing or say that suddenly even though we've tried this especially in recent years where we have invested with our operating budget and our capital budget in Maplewood on organic field maintenance of organic fields and we have gone to the consult ANS and we have spent money money on Experts and organic materials and we failed because while that may work for a park it ain't going to work for a field that gets the use that was quoted tonight so the two that's just not practical to to believe that okay well if we just don't move forward on this if we look the other way suddenly we're going to have the funds and the expert even if we had the funds and expertise we're going to be able to have those beautiful natural soccer uh fancy uh fields that you see uh uh in Europe or in other places because even there when there are championships and high volume and use you see what you see the field tearing apart and breaking and compromising the health and safety of the players you see it I mean I'm a big tennis fan I never played football or softball or soccer and that doesn't surprise anybody here I'm sure um but I did play tennis that was the one thing that I could do even though people told me that uh someone like me could never play sports and I was damn good at it despite some injuries that I had but even when you look at Wimbledon you see what that what those Center Courts look like at the end of their use right it's not practical we have to stop lying to our students and to our community so it isn't frivolous and it isn't insensitive and whatever worked for us as parents and for our children may not work for today's parents and today's children my parents used to tell me when I complained about not having the shoes that I thought that I needed that they walked through mountains Barefoot to get to school so I didn't need those shoes that's not an answer that's not an answer because my kids did it your kids should be okay that's not public service and that isn't leadership we promised the students and we voted on it collectively and it was adopted back in 2019 that when we were going to bond $160 million it was going to include ritzer it was we promised our students that we promised them that and in light of everything else that our students are dealing with right now and none of us are unaware of the context in which we are operating this evening and the terrible timing of this decision tonight in light of all the other things that are happening in this District right now we're going to also tell the kids that they don't have organized reliable organized Sports and physical activity on top of everything else who are we serving then what are we doing ourselves and so we can go to our little Advocate our Advocates and say I did it for you or you can go home and feel better about yourself no you have to serve the community at large and that includes our students someone said it's a it's a minority are you kidding me Sports is a minority our student athletes are minorities no they're not that affects the entire community and something that wasn't addressed tonight is the the following I'm really concerned that if we don't do this finally and we kick it down the road or we don't take action and we keep muddling over you know the uh the the finances and yes we need more information about finances there's no question about that and yes it would have been nice tonight if you guys came with the plans um in light of knowing that we were going to have this right but no we don't have the technical answers and we don't have the storm water uh mitigation plan because we can't get there until we vote for this thing okay and yes the D process should have started and yes we should have some idea of what the LOI is going to say but we can get to those things it doesn't mean that they're not going to happen we clarified a lot tonight on the record we dispelled a lot of myths and gossip and a lot of things that are being part of the public narrative on this issue so this meeting has been very positive and great in that regard hopefully the record has been forever corrected on some of these issues and there are questions that remain but for me I'm concerned of the effect of a no vote on our existing green spaces our parks and our other fields unless we go out and start eminent domaining we ain't going to have anything more than what we have right good luck eminent domaining I wonder how many hours that's going to take uh on private property and private land I'm concerned of the effects on our existing green spaces when we already know that the capacity and the field use is such that we cannot with um withhold and sustain that and I'm also concerned again big picture take it all into consideration listen to all the things and look at the big picture I'm also concerned about our two towns not being places for opportunity trusty B Brown I like be brown I'm going to start using that all right I'm concerned that in Maplewood and South Orange you don't have college scholarship athletic opportunity like you do in the other towns that's the equity issue yes maybe it's disguised as boys versus girls because of the title 9 litigation but the bigger picture is bigger than that and the impact is even more um of concern the fact that our two towns are not places for scholarship opportunity in athletics because we don't have damn fields for our students to play on that is a big concern as a public servant of this town I don't want to be I I don't want people to say that about us right that is the equity issue the issue that there are parents here sure with means who can go to Livingston and who can go to all the other cool artificial turf fields and get their thing for their kid but what about the other parents who cannot do that for their kids they're stuck with the heart which oh by the way if you haven't been paying attention uh even when we spent money on organic maintenance and even when we consulted after Consulting experts and Consultants we have now reverted on existing policy to continue with inorganic maintenance because we organic maintenance did not work even when we expended the effort and the resources financial and other toward that and now we're even exploring maybe having to dig it up and start over right so this is not going to go away folks this is issue it's not going to go away there aren't other field opportunities for our athletes and all of our students for their physical health and wellness outside of this opportunity this is a oneandone opportunity it really really is and it's very very serious and um again I respect the concerns we need more information there's no question about that but we have to to take a stand and I'm taking a stand in favor and nothing that I've heard tonight has changed my mind it has at times affected my conf my confidence and it certainly has listening to people here and here it it has compromised their confidence and their faith in us because we need additional information but we should get the additional information including that from the regulatory relevant body here and move forward not stop or go backward this is a decades old issue that has not been resolved and while we do address climate resiliency and all the other concerns we have yet to address and solve this issue for our students let's do it now let the kids play thank you committee man daffis all right trusty Greenberg is there anything additional you would like to add well first of all to go after you um I kind of want to say what he said because um you really part of what makes our community so unique is the pride that we have um and it's been such a difficult time and these kids have gone through so much and I am the mom of five in our district um all of them have played Sports and are it's a part of their Fabric and it's been difficult and they've been embarrassed and um it there's so much here there's it's it's so things some things just shouldn't be over complicated but it is it is and [Music] um I'm an alternate I'm not someone who's going to be voting tonight but I do want to say that if I was to be voting on all the pieces I mean I really everything you said and so I'm not going to waste time it's a long it's late we've been here a long time we've all said a lot of similar things and so I'm not going to take the light I'm really going to say without reiterating that if I was to be able to vote um and I've had my doubts and I've uh and we need more information everything you just said I I can't it it's silly to to continue you heard what he said he said it so eloquently um and you took the words out of my mouth so I mean truly no thank you um I didn't bring a pen so I wasn't writing down but these are my these are my thoughts exactly so short and sweet it is always uh difficult to follow committee mfus I understand that completely um so uh thank you all for coming out tonight and especially for this robust dialogue I think this is the first time there has been such a public meeting regarding the long range facilities plan since it was originally adopted and perhaps this is a sticky for the Board of Education to think about maybe some certain midpoints where there is a little bit more robust conversation and updates on the longrange facilities plan also acknowledging that you have a lot of work going on as well so I was on the board of school estimate in 2019 when we passed the original long range facilities plan and I supported uh the addition of turf then and I support it today um in 2019 it passed unanimously by the board of Education it was passed unanimously by the board of school estimate and today it it's also a little difficult because uh this ultimate vote and this outcome really is an indicative of the majority of all of our governing bodies and that's just the construct of what the board of school estimate is um you have the overwhelming majority um actually unanimous on the board of education and you also have the majority of elected officials in both South Orange and Maplewood who support moving forward with this Bond including the turf so I I say that because there is more support than it's not but it's very likely tonight from what you've heard is that it is not going to advance in the form in which it was presented I particularly put a lot of weight on colleagues from the Board of Education who have taken a lot of time specifically board president uh telis WD and first vice president Arun VOD lamman for talking us through a lot of details if we took the opportunity to reach out to them and understand what was happening in the fft committee some of the financial discussions they were happening and also sharing their perspective and I took them up on that and so I feel very informed on a lot of these items due to their leadership on the board and and communicating those things back to me when it relates to the title 9 issue and I'll be very careful here uh because we heard some things like well why don't we just put the girls over on Underhill have the Underhill move over to uh ritzer or perhaps our community Fields is that there's logistical issues with that and I would never uh suggest any incompetence from any members of the administration it's a struggle it's not just unique to the district the municipalities have this struggle as well and so uh something um board member V lmani had shared is that Underhill as it's currently designed right now um the spacing that's needed um is different for boys and girl athletes additionally when you come to play sports and Athletics you'll have a varsity team and a JV team play in the same fields in the same area because you have the buses come in all that going on very exciting and right now the girls which I'll speak about a little bit later are are playing in South Orange um and our Fields aren't that great but they are better than maple Woods so um so there is a rationale and logic um that I think the athletic director probably knows very well and has taken into consideration about exactly the timing of it I think about it a little bit like rush hour traffic as a comparison is that um we know during two times of the day is when it's going to be the worst in our communities because that's rush hour for youth sports for recreation for even active Recreation for adults Etc that all happens after school hours it happens after work hours on the weekdays and on the weekends everybody wants to use all of our Fields this has a direct impact to South Orange also um being the mayor Village president Sheena whatever you want to call me is that not only does this impact what is an athletic field for the schools but in the absence of them continuing down this path means that our recreational facilities are being used heavily by these student athletes which then have a negative impact on students who are not involved with the schools organized Sports and are parts of our Recreation and cultural Affairs programming we also have active older adults who wish to utilize our Fields but because we are good partners to the district we're always going to PRI prioritize their use for their Athletics first and foremost there is also a revenue generating aspect to this and of course both myself and trusty Brown know this working directly with our Recreation director um is that we're not able to generate the fees um associated with these club sports as a result of all of our Fields being utilized by the district and so I don't want to say that it's a win-win uh because obviously some people are vehemently opposed to it but we also have a usage issue in South Orange and since I was on the board of school esate in 2019 when we passed this a lot of the times that residents and students and active adults have reached out and said she in a Turf South Orange somewhere I've reminded them that in 2019 you know we passed the long range facilities plan and that ritzer would be turfed which is going to lift some of the pressure from our Municipal fields and our programs there so it's been a little bit difficult for me personally is that I realize this discussion is not stopping it's it's going to move to South Orange there is going to be another conversation about Turf and my challenge is going to be identifying the space for it how we do it Etc and I'd prefer not to I know a lot of folks see the space at ritzer as open space um I see it as an athletic field I see this as an extension of the Board of Education Campus of Columbia High School to me it is not a public park we have our public parks this is an athletic field I think it's important that you proceed forward with this long range facilities plan inclusive of all these items but I do question and strongly urge that the Board of Education work with our community partners and specifically residents the residents of Hixon have reached out so many times they have come to meetings in South Orange they have come to meetings in Maplewood they have attempted to speak at Board of Education meetings and every step of the way it has absolutely broke my heart to watch them Beg For answers when I think a lot of this could have been handled if somebody would have met with these community members early on rather than them going on the offensive and the district having to be on the defensive I think it was articulated to that as a statutory process uh we do have opportunities on the municipal side for major construction whether it's through our planning board or Zoning Board of adjustment heck we have an environmental commission we have a historic preservation commission and then all of our meetings are public that's a little bit different from the board of education but when you saw the heightened level of interest on this specific topic all it would have taken was a level of Outreach Community meaning understanding some of those suggestions or concerns and incorporating it into a bid package so we wouldn't be so far away here we might have been a little bit closer um so on this issue whether it moves forward or not I hope it moves forward um please be kind to our shared stakeholders they are all taxpayers they spend a lot for the district they spend a lot for the towns and um activism is kind of what South Orange and Maplewood are about um the amount of money that we're talking about right now is 2% of the overall construction cost so here we are um getting ready for a longrange facilities plan where we bonded 157 million and now we're about to do another 30 million so let's just put this in context I know that we've spent a lot of time talking about ritzer but you know 4 million divided by 190 million round figures is is a it's it's kind of a a small figure that we've spent a substantial time I think the school district has also acknowledged and we talked about it numerous times tonight is that if this moves forward it will absolutely follow and we will hold you accountable the D guidelines I think there should be a full acknowledgement that there was oversight on that that it was the community who brought it to our attention and that is a very specified process that's in place and that the Board District and Prof professionals have agreed to comply with that so there might very well be if it moves forward a time where D says no we disagree with you I personally don't anticipate that because it has been used as a field for so long so I'm pretty sure the wetlands delineator had made it uh pretty clear but there's still a process no matter what I believe he believes you believe everybody believes is that you do need that Loi so I feel comfortable about that and then last but not least um um I I I just wanted to say and I want to put on the record is that this elevator is also just absolutely breaking my heart um I I heard Miss RAB speak about this at a prior Board of Education meeting I know that you're trying and getting parts is difficult and I'm sure there's a lot of reasons why it hasn't been expedited um but if we're just putting a Band-Aid on something so significant I would rather um fund it I I would rather personally I'd rather just fund it make sure it's there do your Band-Aid fixes and then prioritize this in Colombia high school as soon as possible um it looks like the elevator and I was on the board I take full responsibility in 2019 the rough estimate was $1,875 for that elevator uh with inflation escalation Etc maybe that number is closer to 1.5 million or take um but I if there are any revisions if there's future discussion on it as a board of school estimate member I would love for us to prioritize the functionality of an elevator in our you know esteemed Columbia High School and I know that there's other schools that also need to be evaluated um but I would be comfortable increasing the bond amount to include that in whatever we send back to the Board of Education because it shouldn't have been a level three priority and I I think hearing this issue and understanding its impacts on our on our vulnerable students um we can't pretend we can't unhear what we heard so I would rather move it into a top bucket of um Safety and Security uh for for all abilities in the high school and that's all I have mayor I just have a correction from what you said you said that we're talking about 2% of the budget yep and it's more like 19% 20% 20 30 million is not 2% of 157 million no for ritzer oh just for ritzer britzer cost as a percentage of the total amount got it misunderstood what you said no problem I was like you know math is my jam so that's why I was so surprised so um I we uh I I think I've heard everybody um to the um Let me let me first ask trusty Hilton mayor Adams and Deputy Mayor kpe is there any anything that has changed your mind or you guys uh firm NOS after hearing the discussion I'm airm no okay same likewise okay so the resolution as proposed um is not going to be accepted tonight um there has been uh some side conversations obviously about being able to to make amendments to this in real time propose a new resolution um and be able to get that back to the Board of Education as an amended resolution for their next Board of Education meeting so that we do not delay on the other items and so that would be my preference now I know that there was some desire from members to want to table things get it back get some more information so I open it up is is our priority to adopt all the items that we have consensus on and get that back to the board of education or would you rather stop action and bring it back by tabling Madam president just I don't know if you mentioned this and you may not have if it's tabled uh the resolution needs to be voted on between 15 and 30 days after the resolution was the vote needs to be 153 after the resolution was passed so there is a window otherwise the process starts a new yes understood and and we actually learned that from the last time as the Board of Education adopted it and there was a 30-day window to act so even if we bring it back either we force the Board of Education to vote again and that's probably going to be the impact of tabling it postponing it any of those items um so I if I'm hearing correctly the majority of the board uh would like to proceed with approving all the items unrelated to ritzer and getting that back into the board of education's hands to begin the bond work for all the items that were less controversial um I'm starting down the line is that correct is that correct can we also start the LOI process yeah that way that can just be going on that's going to need to be done regardless whether it's natural or artificial turf I don't think you need an Loi if it's natural but we still have that drainage issue we still have the storm water management I'll get clarification on that in just one second so let me sticky that and come back to that um move forward and approve the other items or did you need more inform I probably could but um I mean I I wasn't making up what I said I really believe that we have very very uh sparse information when I'm used to eight years of line by line figuring it out um so if that means I'll go with the majority though okay and you also have the ability tostain if you wanted to um if you felt like you didn't have enough information trusty Hilton are you comfortable with that action so honestly I'm not and I'm not trying to be difficult but I know it's late and we're all want to go home but I'm not quite clear on what you're asking China so is to move forward everything else everything but everything but ritzer and are we going to get additional information like is it just based going it's going back to the board of ed it'll be everything but ritzer and then it goes back to the board of ed our job will then be done but can I ask a clar question when do we get answers to the questions that we've had throughout the night so so I feel like based on the information that we have right now that that I don't have enough information that I'm comfortable going forward with the whole thing although I will say I appreciate the need yeah for for it all but I think that these guys need to do a little bit more homework on getting us more information so if we if we if we vote it down tonight yeah and then we send it back to you guys and then they they they send it back to us but hopefully with more robust information then I'm comfortable I am comfortable with I appreciate the need for all these other can I can I ask a clarifying question what isn't the so we're talking about just really the psms money right and and colia high school but most of all that stuff was in the original longrange facilities plan it's just the cost has changed right because they were moved down the list and cost have gone up so I feel like like I went back and looked at the 2019 19 presentation like I feel like all that information was there so I agree we need more information about storm water management but if we're talking about revising the resolution to just approve the funding that the plan was already there we just need more money that's where I'm what I'm just curious about what information we want to get that I I agree can you specify what more information you're looking for I mean we made a lot of suggestions but if there's something specific that you feel we need to get it back here before goes back to the Board of Education will be helpful no I'm so sorry Shea I just don't understand the procedural what you're asking for so so if we we we we would approve everything but ritzer but I I thought that we weren't allowed to do that that we so first you have to vote on the resolution as presented okay step one I'm straw polling everybody to see what your will is so that we're going to vote on this and then we'll try and construct something different thereafter there is a you can there can be a vote put with an amendment striking uh the undesirable language or the undesirable item y but that will be symbolic until that's sent back to the board and they act upon it got it okay I'm comfortable with that okay thank you Mr AER thank you very much that was very helpful trusty Brown are you comfortable with that I am okay so the first item here is wait I'm sorry mayor C I'm just I have a question because this resolution that we got today I know there's been a couple different drafts of it but this one has it listed as South Orange middle school and Columbia High School so my understanding is that the ritzer is put together with Columbia High School so we're going to do that in real time we're going to address it in real time so so the way it would work is first we have to vote on the resolution at hand so the resolution that you have in front of us and and clearly that based on feedback that's not going to pass then what we we would do is to give you a modified resolution with all the other with the offending part left out and then we vote on it again and hopefully from what I understand that should pass that would be then that is a clean way to do it and then what would happen is because the Board of Education voted on the original resolution the modified resolution will go back to the board of resolution uh education and we would vote on it on on Thursday we having a meeting on Thursday I've talked to everyone on the board or well almost everyone on the board and that will pass so then we have parody whatever we pass here has to be consistent with what they pass there they pass something there we're not accepting it so in order for us not to go all the way back to the board of ed then have another transfer here and have a whole new meeting and do this all over again is we'd rather adjust it now and then move it over sorry one more thing is that we also spoke with the Bond Council who's the final person we need to please if the bond council is happy I mean you know we we they'll go raise money so and they're okay with this process okay so the first uh the first motion uh that we need follow me procedurally we're getting ready to unfortunately vote down this and then we're going to need a brief recess to create a new one and then we'll reconvene and then that will be the night okay so um I I'd actually like to to make the motion that we approve uh resolution 2024 D1 may I have a second I'll second it may I have a roll call approving resolution Deborah angle yes board president K tford yes first VI vice president Arun vman yes motion does not pass thank you and just as a reminder for anybody just tuning in is that you needed a majority uh members of the municipal Partners in order to pass the resolution and it was a 33 votee amongst the municipal members and therefore the motion does not carry and it fails um I'd like to enter entertain a motion to recess for 5 to 10 minutes um until a new draft resolution is available for consideration may I have a motion so moved second we have a motion from trustee Hilton seconded by committee woman angle all those in favor please say I I I any opposed okay we'll be back in about 5 to 10 minutes or as quickly as we can get a new draft e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e my yard drink beer and this all right everybody if you could please have your seats uh we're ready to proceed forward uh I need a motion in a second and then we'll move into discussion uh we have resolution 20 24-2 a resolution of the South Orange Maplewood Board of school estimate in the county of Essex New Jersey fixing the additional amount necessary for proposed capital projects rather than read this entire thing I'm going to skip to the most substantive point which is originally in schedule a where all the improvements totaling 29 m992 765 the new schedule B has South Orange Middle School the air conditioning and Renovations for a total amount of 21, $1,365 the Columbia High School Renovations totaling 1,613 53 uh sorry 1,6 $3,535 and Columbia High School the girls locker room which is $2,560 360 this does not have any additional money for riter field so it brings the total to 2,175 260 so you will see the differential of what was being proposed originally tonight with with resolution one and resolution two now having a schedule B that we are sending back to the board of education does everybody have understanding on that all right may I have a motion please we have a motion from deputy mayor kpe for schedule B yes a second and we have a second from trusty Hilton uh discussion is there any discussion on this there was one item that uh deputy mayor K brought up about the letter of interpretation and the D process and so I just wanted to make sure her question got answered is there still a need for the D Loi unless there is anything uh related to Turf that's being pursued I'm not sure okay uh being very honest with you I'm not sure but I will check with the engineer and confirm okay so miss kpe it looks like we'll just have to get back to you and see if it's necessary but I think it's fair to assume that with any work that's going to be happening you will follow the njde guidelines and if that requires a letter of interpretation or any engagement Etc that the district will follow that protocol if it's not required for maintaining Asis Etc um then it won't be necessary is that a fair assumption okay any other discussion questions Etc there was um I'm sorry sorry did you have a question yeah oh yes ma'am go right ahead um is is the plan for the Board of Ed members to um move forward on the board of ed with trying to determine what to do with ritzer I assume it's not going to just be nothing do know I mean we have no open plans right now it is a and done and that's why you got one resolution so we'll have to go back and deliberate and come back with a solution because we need to at the end of it reserv is going to be ripped up by the time construction is done we'll have to rebuild it regardless of what happens yeah so at some point we have to come back to the same right body and ask for money so you know we could do it I I don't know I that's up to the the entire board yeah I I would just yeah never mind you heard everybody I don't need to reiterate and the last thing not to delay even further uh because I know we're getting towards 11 o' um I I realize you have to come back for ritzer I just wanted to check with my colleagues um is there any consensus or thought of prioritizing the elevator aspect um into any next request that comes to the board of school estimate when they come back for ritzer yes yes yes yes but I have a process question because I thought that the long range facility plans are plans out to be approved by the state so I don't know time line if that would work for them Mr Burnside is there anything in particular of the board of school estimate indicates to the Board of Education we would like to elevate the cost associated with a new elevator that there could be a process in place or perhaps speak to that a little bit more so the first thing is we'll work with our architect to get some specifications together and find out what a projected budget might look like for the the renovation of of the elevator or elevators yeah and once we do that then we can come back and we'll have a dollar amount to request great um that makes sense to me um and I'm I'm sure our colleagues on the board of education within the fft committee can you also um just share the sentiment that we expressed tonight that we would love to see that expedited to the greatest extent possible absolutely all right I I know you all feel the same way um but um know that the support will be here and there there should hopefully not be too many surprises um and I think um Miss RAB for bringing this forward to us and I'm I'm sorry that your child and other children have had to experience that please don't forget and and the other proposed elevators and Ada accessibility all right any other questions or comments no I think uh oh Mr vad lamani I mean humor me if you will since we are taking straw Poes and talking about how to spend money I mean we do have a huge need for the auditoriums where we are pulling it out of our current operating budget and fixing it from the maintenance Reserve but the problem is across multiple schools it's not just one school I mean it obviously has happened in CHS and uh I mean most of the equipment is like 50 years old it has not been updated so I'm throwing that in along with uh you know the other wish list which is actually and I think it's actually very very you know I mean everyone's will use the word Equity a lot but we are taking care of student athletes on one side and we should also take care of the Arts on one side I think that would be a good balance again I'm just thring it out there seeing what the appetite is I I watch that meeting as well and I would suggest maybe follow the same process if there if it's not within your current capital budget and it's something that you would like to add into the long range facilities plan I think having gone through this cycle and knowing the colleagues that sit on this board is come up with the quotes for that um any supporting documentation things of that nature and also within the prioritization um you know if we need to come back and have a discussion I think we would all welcome that and are aware of the issues that were raised by the students thank you madam president though I I have theater kids I'm all into the theater so I'm not I'm not denigrating your your wish for theater things but we did have a huge laundry list of items that were prioritized back in 2017 with right the all those items that were not included in this plan that we're working on with now so I would urge us not to do keep doing one-offs but like let's take a compreh ensive look at those those all those other items and hopefully the auditorium is in there but but come back to us with a real you know with the plan of of of what needs what needs what happens next right when when we go when we go forward because um we know that there are a tremendous amount of needs in our buildings that were identified that were not acted on and I I don't want to lose sight of all those different items that being said I love the the audit and I appreciate that they they need it as well but so just I'd rather have a have us have a comprehensive look and I I will add to that though is that when we adopted uh the bond for the 157 million the way it was prioritized for us was safety at the time there were so many nice to have haves and even riter at the time it was considered a safety issue because of the conditions of fields and so to the point about the auditorium um I I would contend that it's a safety issue from what we heard from the rigers and and the people who work on all the things that can fall and break and hurt children so maybe it does fall in there but I understand what trusty Hilton is saying is that within your priority list if if there's something that you need to come back on um that it that it's in bucket bucket a um any other comments um Committee Member dfus what didn't do to that yes so um we actually during the break uh myself and Committee Member daff has talked about understanding the real implications of of what this means so in 2019 and and Mr Acer please feel to feel free to correct me on this is right now the budget line item is zero um for riter however that approval still has a doe number and if the board of education has Savings in other areas whether you know everything comes in under the appropriate uh bid or under cost Etc is that they can apply that to what was approved which was the interior and the smaller design so they don't need to come back for us uh to us for that we are voting down the request or um the expansion um but that they are within their purview as the Board of Education if that funding becomes available or if it's not a part of a request from the board of school estimate is that they can proceed with that the question for us tonight was whether or not we would Finance the full amount at a new Vote or an expansion and that answer is no so they still have a role in a prerogative separate from the board of school estimate where they can proceed given whatever Financial considerations or money available in the long range facilities plan or within their own capital budget or within their own maintenance reserves is that this is the board of school estimate and that is the board of education is that correct Mr AER that is correct okay wonderful any further discussion on resolution 202 24-2 okay we have a motion in a second may have a roll call Mr Burnside mayor Sheena colum yes trustee Bobby Brown yes Trust Karen Hilton yes mayor Nancy Adams yes Deputy Mayor Jamaine C yes Committee Member Deborah angle yes board president Coe telesford yes first vice president Arun vman yes motion passes all right thank you all very much um I'm just going back to my agenda I don't have it anymore I assume it means is there any new business there's probably not I believe I heard a what was that we have a motion from Deputy Mayor kripe all those in favor please say I I I I any opposed all right everyone have a good night thank you for coming out all right there we go peace and H grease get home safe for