this government meeting is brought to you by eastw works and our local cable subscribers let don't we get this underway I'll officially open the zoom meeting for May of the Southampton planning board members in attendance tonight Mark darnold Steven Johnson and myself Paul demon not present are Paul FAL and Dan L Val you only have one agenda item tonight outside of our committee reports but we have an anr submitted by Heritage Engineering and surveys for the applicant information is Thomas and Jackie Sears of 8 crer road but the owner information of the land is Eileen and Elizabeth Creer of 11 frier Road I emailed you earlier this evening um a copy of the plan a few people saw it's uh relatively identical almost to the plan we approved for weeks ago or so for the same applicant for a small parcel that was just being uh added to one of their neighbors Parcels there's no uh new lot created there's no Frontage it's just um little parcel here but we have um is it is it Bob Doyle no Mark Anis Mark Anis okay so Mark Annis from Heritage surveys just to give us a description of thatr it's a parcel of 4,642 square feet that will be conveyed from the coochers to the Sears leaving the coochers with 74,500 ft for the lot M yep so we can't touch their Frontage because right now their Frontage does not conform it's grandfathered in so so this is a case as it was four weeks ago or so with the Bowers I believe that were there that just wanted uh to extend their backyards a little bit correct correct um Jackie wants to save some trees that are out her looking out her kitchen window she wants to save some trees and uh maintain the trees so are you representing that there is there are some ises to be resolved between the owner and the seller I mean the seller and the buyer no no issues trees are not part of our perw I appreciate trees very much y Jackie would like to own the trees so she has control of the trees interesting that I'm not a lawyer and I'm not the chair but through Paul seems to me that that would be strictly between the parties yep Mark any questions from you no I think it's pretty straight forward I Look to a plan and an application earlier seeing as uh there are no other issues can I ask for a motion to endorse this um application well I'll make a motion that we endorse the application for um the the anr plan that was submitted for tonight for the Futures that would be foren and Elizabeth coer mayor a second yes the motion's made in second if if there's no other further questions all in favor I Mark I Stephen I myself I okay um Mark I the plans are at uh Town Hall okay I'll sign them for you and I'll drop them off at your office tomorrow morning thank you all right thank you very much thank you you're welcome right take care bye good see you mark bye bye take care all right there's no other business although Stephen has a report um to make unless Mark you have anything Mark no I don't think so nothing new particular but uh Stephen has a report um assum not to put mark on the spot but um I missed an open space committee meeting so um I'm very embarrassed I can't report on that um do you know what happened at last month unforunately I was uh unable to attend that meeting as well so I did not can't report on what occur to that meeting actually that meeting as far as I I know because I was unable to make it I was out of town I think it was uh cancelled may have been I thought maybe less a quum yeah it off to June 4th or something like that but the followup is tomorrow night so um my report from the open space committee is we should all show up tomorrow night is that for open space or planning board related or no well it's planning board related and that the three of us all sit on the open space committee and that's a curious fact but um I just put it out there for your information that is not the update that I was principally requesting for tonight what I wanted to do is report from the housing authority and more particularly the adop grants committee uh who met with tyan Bond over um the scope the geographic scope of the sewer feasibility study so Paul if you could put up the um screen that I sent you or allow me to screen share uh let me see here uh it looks like I may have that already how was that what was that that's what I wanted to show you I don't know how I did it but I did it nice job dve oh w good good job um so what we're talking about is a proposal that I solicited from tyan Bond um really on on our chair's suggestion he asked a question what about have we ever looked at running a sewer line through the greenway is old news um I took the bit in my mouth tyan Bon gave us a roughly $30,000 proposal to look at this area plus where our municipal buildings sit at the end of East Street when the ad hoc grants committee met to discuss this with tyan Bond they said see pants after doing a lot of looking at data um and having their sewer Specialists on board um it's unlikely to be cost beneficial to go down to East Street not withstanding the fact that we have municipal buildings and other problematic septic situations on Clark Street and East Street UPG gradient from the greenway and East Street will be rebuilt in a discret amount of time nonetheless cost benefit doesn't look good so we spent a lot of time at hog gr committee with both Alex fagel and Joe P the sewer guy uh looking at this map and um so this is what I want to share with you uh Housing Authority agreed not to look at East Street and the Housing Authority said we still want to understand what's going on in the Red Rock Plaza big white area so the scope would delete the municipal East Street portion it would document the current conditions at Red Rock Big Y Tractor Supply Etc which are already plumbed individually into the eastampton S pretty much that whole area everybody's got some kind of 2in pipe and I think we heard this from Paul F uh last time we met so in terms of our supporting the housing authority and our own initiative to move forward with sewer which is really prerequisite for doing a 40R smart growth overlay that's for the future I'm happy to present on that too there's a really wonderful slideshow um put out by is it Chapa or the state agency and in 20 minutes you can really get a grasp on 40R because not sure that our Housing Authority does and I'd love to do a joint learning with housing authority and the planning board maybe others um anyway let's turn to the map and I'm going to try and get done here what we were talking about primarily is providing for or the maximum flexibility of the use of the town's acquisition approved at town meeting but still pending uh Town election for the prop two and a half overr 2.2 million for um these two Parcels Plus this on the other side of the greenway which could only be conservation land it's really lovely important but not for our conversation the 40R District would end at the railroad line and it would come up the property line that we would talk about that that is the acquisition we're talking about run along Route 10 gun Road Extension pomoy Meadow and back on in my CH which is pomoy Meadow extension but these are the roadways and then what I propose and the questions posed by tyan B that I want to see if we can resolve tonight um I've labeled this the proposed Sewer District I had scrolling but now the zoom is interfering with my moving things um whatever uh you see this red band here and this red band here and this red triangle here and triangle here uh what I propose to Ty and ball is with this blue purple line running in established roadways or along property lines uh including here that is a property person line um the idea is that it would include properties that front on these named streets it would include these Parcels not all of this because they're questioning the subdivision roads which are much more recent vintage SO the frontage houses older down to the pomoy meadow in rout 10 college highway intersection this is the party rentals and this is the cemetery this is the is it a church or is it a diner I don't know um they and okay uh all of this would be included not so much I I think they got a little exuberant on the south end because we would want to although this is newer subdivision it's just really obvious to include those Parcels but we would want to be aware of the fact that grimstone would be perhaps in a but on this side of the road and we don't want them to be subject to unreasonable assessments Pur SE that they won't use and that's the same issue with the Fletcher Farmland here they're many many other issues when we get to site planning but if the Sewer District were to include this property by maybe running down gun Road To The manhan River and Greenway there I believe that we would end up assessing that forever preserved Farmland based on the Frontage which now has sewer which they will never ever ever utilize and that would be through a betterment assessment which is why I did not run on the district down gun row but pulled it back to the property line at that Northeastern Edge these are my emerging thoughts and this is what I really wanted to get your creative juices going about um tyan Bond really wants to present a revised cost estimate to the ad hoc grants committee which meets tomorrow Chris chair Chris of the um select board has identified arpa funds that could get this thing going and I just wanted your thoughts uh I'm soliciting the same from any board that could possibly give us thoughts or questions tyan bond has been insanely collaborative you've had experience with Alex I'm sure Joe is um as helpful and more detail oriented on the sewer so this is very uh hot as I said the uh atog PRS committee reviewed this in real time with Ty Bond the Housing Authority said they're okay leaving out East Street and what about Red Rocks um what we know and how I would interpret that for the scope is assess current conditions because what we need to see is cost benefit to the town and if those commercial properties are already served through eastampton I'm not sure we need to do that much more to improve their their situation in the short term this would be the focus in in in my opinion but I want to yield for I got a I got a question the main main reason this was triggered was because the 40R we brought up so yeah no I would say it's the town's purchase of 117 125 well yeah that too but I mean as for planning board business the 40R is what we're concerned with the this the safety complex and the land acquisition that really isn't our purview we for planning board purposes this came up because of 40R so what I'm trying to get clear in my mind is you're saying that there is no there's no um there's already access to uh sewage from East stampton for the uh previous study that was done that um was from Red Rock Plaza on both sides of the road down to not quite as far as the manhan river on on College Highway so so that's doable in that District right now correct what I believe to be the case through Mark f is that they're all using East Hampton sewer via what must be CrossCountry sewer eans they get to eastampton to that Terminus um I don't understand it in detail if it were to be further developed for instance in a mixed use 40R capacity they surely would need to upgrade but and my gut instinct is there's not a lot of potential there when Sierra from the Housing Authority talks about adding a second story apartments to Red Rock commercial Plaza that no way will meet the 40R requirements that is a drop in the bucket so they're all served they would all need to upgrade but they have perhaps easements and connection point and they should be filed figured in volumetrically but I I'm I'm stretched to see that we have and this is the key for getting the 40R approved an opportunity to significantly increase the number of housing units PR yeah but also remember too remember too that that that's a commercial Corridor too so the sew would be important for the commercial aspect of of that person of the highway if they don't if they don't want to do 40R there then uh it's the commercial aspect would be viable that's correct and I think volumetrically that needs to be looked at because let's say the Harley thing transformed from a dealership with staff in one bathroom to a more intensive mix use development and Jesus it it could be 100 units of housing on that site they would obviously need to upgrade from and this may be the exception Harley may not have utilized but I heard generally everybody has a 2-in pipe running cross country to East Hampton they'd have to deal with that but they have some something established to build off of in contrast to what we're proposing and U you know we can go back and forth and maybe we need to um up the scope of analysis for the Red Rock Big Y Plaza um Housing Authority is uh that's an original Focus but with the purchase of 117 to 125 that parcel and it's affordable housing um opportunities I think will generate Public Funding for the sewer in order of magnitude greater than we could expect other ones so the 4 really leverages the sewer the 40R is dependent on the highly suitable feature plus the additive units beyond what the current zoning allows and this is highly built but we should look at you know how much do we want and can we accommodate here given sewer and what would it look like to put sewer here and allow some more flexible housing uh zoning requirements for firsttime ownership that's another thing that's afforded in 40R but I'm not ready to do a discourse on 40R I would Mr chair like to reserve time on our next agenda to run that slideshow but I have extracted from the application highly suitable features that help you qualify for 40R District fundamental is Affordable hous variety of new opport high density affordable housing right but beyond that so your plan Transit Transit is number one we can't offer Transit we could offer with this boundary things that they enumerate Public School pedestrian infrastructure existing on Route 10 and contracted to be improved along pomoy Meadow and the greenway let me let me go the post office the public safety complex and a major intersection that is community defining all of those are cited in the 40R criteria yes sir what all right so tyan Bond did this um and that's work that they accomplished had had you um met with eastampton yet about their um availability of being on board with this right so um Mr chair I really appreciate you're preparing a letter to U the town of south or eastampton about expanding our um access to their sewer I do in fact have um an appointment with mayor call and I'm trying to navigate to my calendar doesn't want to show me my schedule um I believe it's on the 21st this month um Scott and I Town Administrator and I would be meeting with mayor Nicole to thank them for their past collaboration with our town water supply andan aquafer protection limited connections up in the Red Rock Big Y area and we're looking at opportunities for expanding coll oh Public Safety dispatch enormously important to the T so all this we want to build on with a sewer feasibility proposal so what U Mark what Scott and I would hope to do with mayor Nicole is to identify whether it's a director of Public Works sewer division what have you and to introduce our relevant person probably Brett to uh work with Ken Bond and detail out the issues now with Paul Paul drafted the letter and he had it he had it um to the attention of Greg nlman who's the Department of Public Works but I just suggest we hold that and um share with the mayor and if that's a correct person don't don't you think that you should be invited to this meeting with you and the Town Administrator since he's running the plant potentially that begs uh adding Brett to the meeting and making it rather big and more um uh apt to get bound up in detail rather than general direction what we'd like to do isir side if that's the right point of contact or whether it's his department head below him how how would the mayor be able to know what this the sewer system is able to um maintain and take out the mayor would know the mayor would know who on her staff is the appropriate person and and according to Paul FAL who has dealt with that uh Department in that town over the years with engineering that's that's his his recommendation that's why he had it um addressed to him do not I do not in any way impune Paul's judgment on that I'm talking to you about strategy and engagement and whether it is worthwhile at a very high level with the New Town Administrator introduced to the outgoing mayor to tee up this and any number of other collaborative efforts um but this one quite specifically and it's very Timely important and give her some ownership of it say yes this is my person on that task or you know what we've had some things going on and I would like to bring this other person into this conversation and you should bring your person Brett or whomever it is that that is a highlevel introduction meeting rather than the detail level meeting which I think um uh Paul did a great job teeing up and you know I we could bring that draft letter there's nothing wrong with that draft letter except I would identify our contact person to respond right because I think that's what it did not uh include whether Paul I don't think that you as a volunteer should take this on it should be Brett or Scott or somebody well I'm not going to send the letter because if you're if you're meeting with the mayor then the as far as I'm concerned the letter is moot until you get a decision on what the mayor says and then we can go forward after that because that was the last thing we we had agreed upon not knowing about this meeting you were supposed to have so I'm going to hold on to that letter that's great I that doesn't heard anything no And as far as the and as far as the rest of it goes I don't I don't think we should go any further with this without uh adopting a plan of how we're going to approach um this 40R now without the consent and the uh opinion of Richard Harris because now um that study probably will have to be redone for the the new uh section of town that this um encompasses and yeah I anticipate that and I think between what tyan B will develop in the sewer feasibility study and what I can bring um we can count up uh what's there current what additional opportunity there is under current zoning and what the differential would be under 40R you know I I can I can give 10 hours to everyone we buy from Richard maybe Mark can give us an hour too and we can sort this out this is complex but it's not brain surgery well if you read Richard's letter the first yes I did the first item to address was the sewer so once we get that confirmed then we can proceed with the rest of the plan for 40 hours so that's that's what he laid out in the criteria and that's what we have to abide by Authority he is a consultant but Paul I really I don't mean to quibble I mean to agree with you that this is the step we are taking with the mayor and with her identified uh contact person because sewer is fundamental to a 40R application I don't want us to walk blindly forward once you get a final answer and you get some definitive answers in in writing then I think we'll proceed but right now it seems to me like it's it's really uh it's scratching the surface right now about all the work that has to be done on the the tie-in bond study I I don't want this committee to get involved in in more than it can handle outside of 40R right now because it's a big scope of a project uh putting Town sewer uh in all these areas is not the planning board um to decide that it's whether the town's got money in the grant to do it if Town wishes to go forward with it then fine with us um I I hear your perspective Mr chair we are proceeding to get East Hampton's explicit commitment to work with us on sewer expansion we are only at a feasibility study level with tyan Bond it will provide invaluable information to support a potential 40R nomination going forward at the next meeting I would like to present uh one of one of the standard slideshows about 40R so we can get our heads around it and begin to educate ourselves about where this town's opportunities lie and I will work with Richard I will work with markk I will work with anybody who wants to contribute intelligently uh to this conversation you you know I'm looking at the SE done a lot of sewer line soine studies and and I'm thinking from East Hampton's perspective you know what is the benefit they obviously they're not going to pay for construing a sewer on southon property and typically the only revenue of sewer uh commission gets is uh the flows generators to them um right so and um you know uh and typically you know if unless there's something wrong with your title fight system you can't mandate somebody abandon their title F I mean huge expense for a town and inconvenience for the town and I mean for most of these properties you have these red lines they're you know their residential areas which will not be putting into a sewer district uh maybe they don't want it you know in in and it seem the whole reason to get this all of this blue line red lines Etc was basically to get a s line into 145 um um you know College Highway where the public safety building is seem like yeah it seem like a whole lot of you know and I don't have any issue it but in typically in most of the sewer things I think there's been a desire big the requirement and for improvement to a fail septic system sewer systems falling apart the title 5 systems are all failing and so there's a desire desire need for it this year seem like dire need is to provide you know a small section of our community with 40 district and it's a lot of sewer a lot of construction a lot of change in property values and you know I just look at the sewer forget for y just look at it does it make sense to put sewer where we're putting it and why why is it being put there other than 40R you know what's the evaluation this is a fe this is a feasibility study that will look at how much built stuff is there how much Redevelopment potential is there under current zoning how much would be there under 40R and we could amend this and we could also seriously I I can't imagine the sewer would be built out in less than two or perhaps three phases start St in with Route 10 to serve the town's property and the failed systems of multifam and Commercial properties long rout tent the next piece of gun Road and pomoy Meadow brings in a lot of the attributes that help us win the designation and get a bunch of state income even before we build these units so the forr district we might scooch down the sewer proposal we might look at phasing it in N phases I don't know because I'm not a sewer guy but in terms of what um in all of town where we have the densest development that needs a lifeline and we have a blank slate of 45 acres and we need sewer this is a start for getting a handle on you know what is the south side of Route 10 cost what is the north side of Route 10 cost and whatever questions we still want them to address with red rocks and big line but if we don't include a bunch of affordable housing in a zoning change and it could be a small as big as 45 Acres that we have um that may work that might leverage the sewer investment from another Direction but it would perhaps suffice for a 40R I look forward to working with Richard this is what I studied in school and I went a different direction I did conservation and development that was necessary to accomplish that um I really do understand zoning and infrastructure I have not the depth of practice that Mark has but maybe I've had more experience with creative partners that do the impossible I'm I'm sure of that I what I want is an orderly fashion and not to bite off more than we can chew here when we we go um from a 40R concept that was right along for years was just the College Highway Corridor and now with a public safety complex that is in that same quarter but now all these other outlying areas there I I I don't want to focus on anything outlying other than what is concerned with 40R right right at the moment and that's why I think it's got be organized and prioritized um because the committee that you're on if it's an ad hoc Grant committee or feasibility study I don't know who's on that committee or whatever else but um well look at the town website and learn that's chaired by the chair of the select board I I don't often go on the town website to check out who's on what I'm just asking I'm I'm trying to enhance crossboard communication and un if it's undesired we'll take it one step uh Mr chair I would request time on the next meeting to present a 10-minute slideshow about 40R that we can better wrap our arms around that and I would um make a motion to table discussion of this because the planning board is expressing through its chair it's not ready to contemplate a sewer feasibility study separate from a forr application but undoubtedly instrumental to it so if you can't get behind a s feasibility study I move table it it was not actually teed up for a vote your input says you don't support this and you really only want to look at 40R and in that regard I request isn't isn't theability study part of 40R then how am I that it is of course it is no the feasibility study it's all about sewer isn't it is isn't a 40R about sewer and the feasibility is about sewer how can they be not connected connected yes the 40 arms about affordable mixed use zoning all right it's not inherently on this presentation you want to make for 40 R um I am assuming you want housing authority to be invited to that meeting as well that would be ideal thank you and public safety building committee and Senior Center building committee a joint boards and if Mr Cherry want the select board to organize that that's fine but we need to move forward forward with this contract with tyan Bond I don't think there's anything here that is impeding a fresh open look at how we apply how we um propose for the our district uh how can how can I uh move this forward with uh you Mark and I do we endorse this feasibility study because it I had no idea that you know you're you're uh you're making a report this in depth but are you looking for our endorsement because I don't want to hold up your your study but I just I just want to take peace me what we have to deal with I have heard clearly your concerns I wanted your input your concerns are that this is perhaps bigger than a 40R District it's perhaps bigger than the town can afford we haven't done sufficient background on 40R I haven't heard that this area of town doesn't Merit sewer why why wouldn't it Merit sewer if the public safety complex is going to be there I mean the public safety complex site can accommodat these sanitary issues associated with the public safety but but not the but not all the the expansion and the possibilities for the site in particular the affordable housing aspirations right and possibly the senior center correct right it is an open question but they're still um tentative yeah I met with them today Paul Paul I'm retired I'm working on this and I want you to understand that however much time it takes I will tee up questions for you to answer answer deliberate answer vote what whatever the process is right now I don't think you're on board with a sewer feasibility study that's not necessary you you're you're reading this wrong I I'm for the feasibility study but I am not for this big picture for us to handle all at once I only want what we can handle as a board going forward peac meal not a big scope if 40R is our Focus right now it has been from what the past meetings have told me that's what I want to focus on nothing else and that's what I'm but I am in favor of the entire feasibility vot for it okay and and so what I'm requesting with respect to 40R is well Housing Authority is the key one we should schedule next meeting joint with them and go through through slid show use the stuff that Chapa and the state agencies have given us because the way it's been discussed casually in this group and others it doesn't really bear much resemblance to what Richard Harris has done in South Hadley and we need to make sure we're in the parameters in state law that's why I want him on board with it could he attend our next meeting I will ask could you allow me to speak with him in advance yeah I'm fine with that I want to get get this going but he's his his question number one was get the affirmative from East stampton before we go any further that was his number one uh point that he made and I don't see any anything in black and white that confirms that wow all right I hear you meeting with mayor La Chapelle is on 29th um Scott and I and maybe we should bring Brett make the introductions and get this thing launched uh Paul I I appreciate your desire for certainty but in the real world certainty doesn't really exist and this is going to be a negotiated uh agreement with East Hampton what we want is the highest level of Buy in that they will um in good faith engage in what is you know an open-ended Exploration with a lot of questions they have alining Main Street East Hampton calls it Main Street they align in their rail track they have a certain amount of load on they have certain expectation of future load some of the current load is East Hampton what of the remaining load will they allocate to us you know we are not doing brain surgery all they can do is say we're inclined to work with you but it all will come down to the engineering study of what we can accommodate would they charge it use her fees plus want us to engage in the capital Improvement plan I think that would be a reasonable part of the discussion but that is well down the line is it expensive it is crazy expensive is this affordable housing 117 125 house College Highway our best play to leverage maximum public funds for a sewer extension to serve our economic development and our Housing Development can't imagine anything better and I will give you professional level Services because I have no life let me do it all I want is 10 minutes on the next agenda with the Housing Authority can we agree to them we can and if it sounds SS like there's a lot of you just mentioned so many variables about of course this this this sewer then how how can we proceed with 40R without any kinds of um I'm not going to say guarantees but any kind of solid information that this can be pulled off how how can even start the process it'll take a year doing our homework to build the application we need to read the application and understand the program all right June 5th I'll get a hold of Richard I will invite the Housing Authority um and we'll go from there June 5th it is June that's Wednesday it's the first meeting of uh first Wednesday of June yes I'll cancel my vacation that's what I will do for you well if you wanna if you want to put it off to the second meeting say so you want you wanted to get this underway so it's either the 5th or the 19th you know I'll work with the housing authority and with Richards so that I can come back to you Paul uh with a really crisp educational piece uh about 40R because we need it that's what we said back in 2012 and it went nowhere from there so hope we really wrapped our arms around the program no I know it so maybe this time we get serious I hope so is there any other uh reports of committees or other business would like to be mentioned no I'm I'm I'm with the uh preservation ex there anything unique associated with that what was that Mark I'm sorry no I'm on the live on for the community preservation so I didn't think there was any any pertinent issues oh I gotta um not at present but when we figure out what kind of a housing program we can do here uh we'll certainly be back to housing preservation but um that's a year from now certainly six months from now yeah but I mean I with housing authority we've reached out to wayfinders uh to their CEO and their senior staff and we have a site visit scheduled so uh you know we do have nonprofit housing developers who are interested in what we're doing and um will come and you know kick the tires with us do a S sidewalk meet people and tell us what kinds of uh funding opportunities and and emerging how development projects they're working on that we can choose from menu that is feasible rather than a menu the out of our imagination all right anything else I think I'm good all right hearing none I'll uh entertain a motion to adjourn I'll move then motion made by Stephen second I'll second it Mark all in favor I I thank you thank you for your time stepen all right looking forward to getting you guys SC getting together thank you all and see you than you all thank you bye bye bye this government meeting is brought to you by eastw works and our local cable subscribers