##VIDEO ID:SXXZ_onXLSM## all right good evening everyone and welcome to the highspeed internet SubCom subcommittee meeting for August 15th 2024 time is 6 o'clock we're in the land use room this meeting is being held in a hybrid fashion both in person and on Zoom the meeting is being recorded uh if anyone's recording the meeting that's great just make it known to somebody else in the room anyone else recording the meeting uh why don't we do [Music] uh roll call First Doug mowan is present Bob Boyd present Chris Boyd present Jim rowy present Marling Finland present and on Zoom Tom colck present excellent uh do we have minutes to go over we do has anyone looked to review the minutes from August one yes I have reviewed the minutes and I move that we step the minutes okay there's a motion is there a second I'll second it roll call vote Doug moglin yes Bob Boyd yes CHR Boy Yes Jim Crowley yes ringland yes and Mr Tom kic yes awesome Tom kic yes thank you okay uh before we head into our main topic of business is I want to remind everyone to go on the portal if you're interested to continue on the highspeed internet sub to make sure you sign up to indicate your interest because we're going to be doing appointments on the select board uh week from Monday so if you haven't already done that go on to that thing to just fill it out put in your name and phone number and email and kick off the highspeed internet box you verification back one person did it I think it's you me okay everyone else didn't do it yet so please do it and if I forgot to tell you then that's on me okay when we last met we kind of talked about some of the financial modeling that we we had put together and I figured I would bring the folks from whip City in and also members of the finance committee in to kind of help us through some of this discussion gentlemen ladies if you guys want to come up you're more than welcome friends want to stay back wow how do you know the Pioneers right the guys with the arrows in their [Laughter] back all right got all right well I feel feel better already probably you again give it a minute no just a friendly Crow where do you want to start well we had we had taken some and I I can put them on the screen as soon as my computer finishes doing what it's doing over here we had taken some I think a bit of a swag at some numbers just let us know which ones you're want these are um these are your numbers so this is and I try to add some some of your other Fabs so we had taken some numbers that from estimates and part of the Make Ready part of the the buildout cost and then tried to plug those in with some subscriber counts based on the Avail the the total available market and then a rate and then try to figure out how we would pay down pay the BG and and close the project down Bond wise in you know 10 11 12 13 years something like that and we didn't quite get to where we thought we needed to be okay so so um so some of your numbers were also outdated um when you went back to um the community compact Grant this is the stuff that I'll I'll me back um so we updated those numbers in the spreadsheet we also looked at um your numbers as well and we we got information from Otis in Chesterfield on the insurance you had $100,000 a year for insurance Chesterfield was just over 7,000 or actually just under 8,000 at 7900 Otis was at 10,000 Otis is pretty equivalent in size of the number of customers that were anticipating here in um Southwick so pretty equivalent in in size um so what we did was we changed the estimate for the 100,000 in Insurance to 25,000 so that was still two and a half times what owed is is physically paying for a similar size plant so that being said scenario number one which uh you'll see here everybody got copy um running through this the full build estimated cost right now all in is 17 million we did the AR so that's for for uh bonding less the arpa funding which is 900,000 Community compact Grant 250,000 brings the total cost of the project to 15850 uh 15, 850,000 uh level Debt Service uh payments for at 4% interest rate for a 20-year term annual total debt service is 1.66 million uh scenario number one if we went with but was proposed where Southwick had $85 per month per subscriber fee $28 of that to um whip City fiber for our fees flipping over to the potential customers 50% take rate off of your potential of uh 36885 uh customers fully built out would be 18843 the annual revenue would be 1.87 n and the expense assumptions to whip City fiber would be 619 th000 your debt service the 1.66 million the data cost at $1,700 a month is $20,400 the maintenance which is your number of $13,000 um per year the insurance of 25,000 which is um again two and a half times what Otis was but still 75,000 less a year than uh the estimate that uh Southwick had provided in their numbers projected annual net income in that scenario is $546 negative okay for scenario number two which is the customer fee per month for Southwick at $89 or $89 still $28 for uh whip City fiber still the same number of customers based on 50% which is 1843 the annual revenue increases to n uh 1.9 68 million again the uh all the fees are the same the annual um net income in this scenario goes to a positive of $33,860 which is a change a benefit change to the net impact for scenario one of 84 or 88,2 64 scenario three which is a similar scenario to what we did in East Long Meadow um is doing a a split so with the first still at an $89 per subscriber cost tiering the whip City fiber fee for the first th customers going to $25 per customer and after 1,000 customers going to $27 per customer same potential amount of customers which is $1,843 50% take rate annual uh revenue is not correct because it increases um what's that oh the increase is the same in Revenue um but the expenses uh change on whip City fiber down to 573 versus 619 which um provides that additional $46,000 benefit vers scenario 2 uh which brings in about an $80,000 per year net income at a 50% take rate so how how do you map out that assumes obviously the take rate is the take rate at 50% and based I guess my question is is two parts one is how do you guesstimate or estimate revenues as you build out because this is not we're done so we're built out we're going to build out these fsas one at a time and then there's going to be Revenue increasing as each FSA comes online and then as you add a new FSA so right how do what point how's your cash flow going and how is your bonding going correct so I've got a friend so I'm gonna phone my friend so kaziah this because I have had Nur Hi how are you computer you know what I oh yeah she she does know it all off top of her head but the accountant or statistician uh yes quantitative um so basically yes we do have the revenue um increase as we build out so if we for this situation um we have a fiveyear build so we are estimating about 19 fsas so that would be a little you know 3.8 if they're using um decimals so about four fsas per year so as we grow those we're kind of um offsetting Revenue per year by six months we know that you know year one January 1st we're not getting the full revenue for the new or FSA so we're staggering that in um 5e to match the construction is there an assumption at the growth rate once an FSA is built or as people are added is it assume that it'll reach on a 50% average at the end of one year or two years so we are keeping a level 50% per FSA as they're coming online but I mean they're not when an FSA is finished they not everyone's going to be connected right away it takes time and resources so as far as the installations or yeah just a time let's say there's 300 people in an FSA and got several I mean you can only install so many a month we can do uh right now about 50 to 60 installations a week okay so they' be um it's a pretty quick turnaround once the uh once the FSA is built and under any underground installations would be done at the same time constructions being we'd be running the conduit in the the underground ahead of time but as far as a positive cash flow at what point what year do they hit the um you know in in scenario number three the S will3 yeah so starting say construction ends in 2032 2033 um you're receiving that full Revenue so basically the year after you start to see that that income but in your also in your plan how do you have the um the bonding laid out yes that's another difference so we are estimating um through make ready so basically year one through all of construction we're matching the bonding to what you need for that year so that you're not taking on unnecessary debt before you need to and before the revenue comes in so we're trying to um offset the expense as much as we can kind of frontload that right now sure because we had talked about and that's one of the reasons we we wanted to have Finance here today too was also part of it is I think some of our modeling had different scenarios for how you would borrow the money and interest rates and so on I think some of it will probably be uh like short-term notes until you get to a point where it makes sense to go and buy the long-term Bond so so you're doing a b yeah you do a and then um e that or just a short-term note okay we build out an FSA for example or fsas and then once you get to a reasonable number probably a million or two million or some number that it makes sense and it also depends on the town right when we do uh when we do a long-term note it's not it's not probably just going to be southw fiber no there may be a fir Tru or an ambulance or you whatever is else was in the budget that year that they need to go and you know bot so we you know we gang all those those notes to together and do a singular borrowing we keep it on the the balance sheet as separate but the actual note is is usually tied together with something else because we don't have like a fire engine note and a this note right it's it's a greater borrowing because we get a better rate on a a bigger dollar note for our estimator tool you know coming out with the 17 million down to the to the 158 or whatever um is like for an organic build meaning you're an island you're not attached to Western for for Southwick you know our end you know proposal as far as construction we come down the uh the bike path now we have fiber going into the city now or the town um there are places along the way that are underground so if you look out here right here on Depot Street you have that um condo tow houses that's that's there you have that option also you look at the connectors to where we come in to um to Southwick where Westfield touches South if you look at Underground areas where we're not looking at pole make ready uh work and that you can do that you look at the um the ranch the the property at the ranch you can go all in there underground and not have to worry about any any pole attachments and then also um you have the what's it The Greens at the southa Country Club so you have property there where you can come in on Tanner Road you can come in uh 10 and 202 underground um or you can also come from there on on Sunny Side as well so there are um construction options where and also increases the reliability where where I think we have six or seven touches including the bike the bike path and including the other condo complex there off of um have you been on the bike path at all so you know where our uh natural gas tape facility is there yeah have that condo facility we just talked about that Monday as a matter of fact hopefully in a in a positive very much so yeah we're going to have a good time yeah something about sewer rates and gas rates I found thatle for the gas that's a subject for a different about we think very highly of that gas line yes yeah so anyway so where where that comes you have that also that condo complex and going into um to that other neighborhood but I think that um the the prior neighborhood is uh is over overhead as well so right then you're dealing with eversource in in Verizon on their make in the time frames involved that's what part of the design is going to provide distribution fiber along the bike trail breakouts into neighborhoods like that right so we we we would be able to do that up front while we're waiting for for make ready to come in so if you look at uh West frankfield so West Springfield's eversource in Verizon similar Southwick eversource and Verizon so we appli uh with uh West Springfield for pole make ready or poll applications in October of 21 okay the work for that started in March April of this year so it was nearly two and a half years to to get that going the first uh payments from West Springfield to Verizon and eversource started in April of um April of 23 so they sat on that money for a full year right before that work was done there's been you know some push back uh some strong push back from West spr field on that where there's you know the contract for with Verizon and eversource states that they have to you know have the work completed in a certain amount of time they have to have the uh schedule for the work uh for the start date completion date and a certain amount of time neither utility has met that um deadline at all so so West spr's going to get all their money back yeah with interest yes no one's ever committed to those contracts no exactly Jim so you know when you're when you're going through this I'm just looking at are there options for revenues to begin coming into the town right um where we because of the um the location of Westfield with with s that we can um build off of and build also the redundancy and the reliability for for a more robust system sure and for the underground that's assuming that it's all new underground going in new conduit in all these areas not using any other utilities not using any other utilities but if the contractor put in um other conduit that's fine that right count on yeah no no no we're not we're not counting on that yeah and one thing I meant to do and I haven't done it I just talked to him Monday too was to find out at especially at the greens because they were very interested in this in the beginning hopefully they piped this all already that's brand new construction the last three five years and they wanted whip City to come in to that even ahead of us having a deal together and you couldn't do it the problem with that was the the concern from our side is we don't want to own anything no I get it but I'm hoping that they left dry conduit AB suitability at the street already so if you go into like The Greens East or The Greens West that the installs are easier than you know cutting new undergrounds to all these houses too like if if you get up into the ranch because that I think that actually almost touches Westfield or close to it sunny side right there yeah so but you will have to pull underground to each house there as part of the install right it's it's G be more involved if they than if they already have conduit there for those houses so I mean if it's to the house it's any conduit yard is owned by the the property owner so even though they didn't put it in so there's potential options to use what's there and I'll pull out the phone drop and put in a fi but you don't but I think that I I I remember talking to talking to them very early on and like it was just a side conversation one day I'm like if you're if you really this is going to happen someday you know while you're dropping in your all your other utilities you know leave either space in the conduit or leave conduit with a string for for something we have all the trenching equipment if if they didn't but typically when we're when we're doing that it does cause uh some inconvenience with um you know cutting a sprinkler system which we just you know if it if the installation's happening October November December or you know March or April and the sprinklers aren running we you know leave a card that says you know give us fall in spring when you're you know when the water starts coming up absolutely get a get a guys area too oh yeah and that's and that's common and that's you know we really Express that up front on everything so to boil this back down and that's why you know taking some of the number that we had like and to the folks that were putting this modeling together does this help you in re kind of recasting where we were to kind of re reestimating some of the numbers that we came up with and you know the other thing that I do want to talk about is do you know where we we I think a key driver in this and you know look at these numbers minus 54 plus 33 uh Plus 8 9 uh that customer monthly rate is going to drive the take rate a little bit up the $89 yeah 85 or 89 or 79 or 69 we we've pulled around with all different numbers obviously when we go to you know 59 or 69 it makes our numbers look all that much worse you know we'll have to fool around with these numbers too to see what this does because this is these numbers are marginal well pun intended um I would imagine if you change that rate from 85 to 75 that 33860 goes away right in in scenario two and you know probably doesn't make um scenario three look very you went down $10 yeah it's gonna the numbers are that close and I don't know we we haven't done enough well just at $85 the number changes um you know so $4 $4 change is $88,000 we don't have elasticity numbers yeah we don't know enough and and you the price in what's the price in Westfield for residential right now when we did it starting in 2015 it was at$ 69.9 million and where are you now $699 right never changed P $62 for Comcast right now so9 $62 for 300 some me okay which is not up two up two sorry right right but it we think that that price elasticity is going to be important to drive the take rate and so it's going to we have to be really careful with that number to make sure that you know we don't want price it so high that it's vulnerable to drive the take rate way under where we want it to be and then we obviously can't price it price it too low that it you know even we got a 100% take rate we ain't going to make it right so that's that's a very delicate balance and I you know we had always talked about from the very beginning with us being in in the 80ish five number even when we did our survey back four years ago we asked people would you do this at this price and we asked that I think we did two or three different price points i' have to go back it's been a few years but we had different numbers and they were okay even at the high at the high number um so our price schedule when our our business plan back in 20134 when we were developing whip City fiber um the original was $59.99 and then every three years it was going to go up $5 so I was on the board at that time and I said well realistically anyone that's going to see a $5 doll increase is just going to be no matter if it's three years five years one year is just going to be ticked off every time they see that increase going up so I said why don't you start at $69 and then you know you can stretch that out you'll collect more money up front yeah and maybe it's it's five to 10 years before you have to go up $ five what happened in that we had the the luxury as we were growing to have uh the builds in the hilltowns and add um all you know the 20 partner communities up there so um as that growth happened that's now we haven't had to take out any other Bond we've been paying cash every year um you know to the tune of three to5 million each year plus we had what we were build you know to build out the rest of Westfield so that's you know something that we've had you know the capability to do 100% so andk kudos to you guys for having the for foresight to do the project when you started it but we also you know and we also had the foundation we had the Billing System we had customer service we had the trucks we had you know the the the mind you know people there to to do it so that's the the quote luxury that we can offer is you collect the money you pay the money and you know you get a monthly update and all this and you know that's um how it can work and you can have either a volunteer committee or you can end up having you know a municipal life board and and things like that coming down the road that you know can report uh into or you know or Supply reports to the the select board or the select board is the municipal life board I think we're gonna get we we've got to have that discussion in more detail I mean you know Brian knows I'm impossible to get a hold of and then you know it it causes all kinds of delays and confusion and you know we need to start once we start moving the project along as we as we go we're going to have to figure that out and figure out what you know what other oversight if you will needs to be put in place of the Municipal Light plant you know this whole thing because there's going to be a lot of subscribers someone's going to want you know a neck to ring in town hall basically on this and um but before we started talking about you know adding a person or it does this fall under something else or whatever typically the next you know the the neck is is US yeah so um you know as that's going through we're handling customer service and customer service you're still going to get phone calls you're on this group or you're select board member um you're always going to get the in you have the hotline T us that says hey you know that Mrs quinland oh my gosh she's at it again you know um but it but it's you know it's just and you know I don't want to go I go way a field of the you know this discussion here but like right now you know this is an Advisory Board you know ad hoc Advisory board with zero Authority or for anything it has to go back to the select board for every everything so we we probably need to figure that out from a governance standpoint rather than having to go back to the select board for for stuff if they meet on you know if we do have a Municipal light board or a highspeed internet board or whatever you're going to call it that gets chartered no pun intended but that's not having a charter but that gets set up to actually manage this and they meet on a some regular basis and can make you know some business decisions that need to be made along the way or you know have a customer Advisory board or whatever you're going to have to to kind of yes we know that you guys are going to be the the folks to call but they're still going to want to call someone in in town right trust me when the power's out I still get the the messages sure of it I'm sure of it and um you know we well we get phone calls on the electric bills that people just got this week right and we don't have zero to do with it right um and even with you know Muni aggregation coming which is the supply side it does nothing for the delivery side and that's the side of the bill that just went nuts so anyway here and or there so please this might be an analytical question what is the take rate based on and when you I'm assuming it's some sort of an average I'd love to understand what it's from and where have you seen successes for higher take rates and then where have the failures been for lower take rates yeah I'll answer okay so for for the um for like our Hilltown Partners right so the partner communities we serve 20 communities um all had zero uh internet prior to this they had no cable no Internet no nothing so for there we're seeing take rates in the high 80s to low 90% so that you really can't compare to because you have an incumbent here um you know comb internet and in cable Supply in Westfield right now that's what we have to compared to we're between uh 55 and 60% take rate as we're as we're building out um we'll be fully built out as far as passbys by the end of this year um so there was you know a period of time where um before I became the general manager in 2021 where I think it was from from 17 to 21 we didn't have any expansion in in Westfield and you had people's heads spinning because we weren't weren't doing that then um but with that that take rate that's why we're estimating 50% take rate we also do um Community studies or surveys to say you know when you were doing it early on like hey will you pay $50 yeah more likely you know but if you just started at you know $75 and went up you know it it depends because you also didn't know what the real real cost was on the initial survey so we can also uh help you and run a survey you know whether it's through Survey Monkey or or something else for um members of the community to respond to and say hey are you interested in in you know high-speed internet that would compete with the uh the current current provider so you're you're basically using Westfield's take rate to apply yeah Westfield minus okay and then with that you had said when you came on board Westfield's takee rate was really super super low what what no no no the build out was the build we were only at 70% built out in in Westfield and it stayed stagnant for for a number of years for whatever reason so then once the build out was complete you saw that repeat so far we're we're still over 50 you know 55% for each uh um Fiber service area that we're building okay what's happening now is the the last ones that we're building are the most expensive so they're either multi-dwelling units they're more expensive to get into or they're the downtown areas where they're uh you know it's underground it's more difficult build okay thank you how long did it take you to get the 50% thresold for the take rate yeah oh we were actually we were we were higher before because when we built out to the first 70% so we took a $15 million Bond back in 2015 2016 for that original build out that was closer to 65 perc back then so there's two factors one is the more expensive ones to get into and the other were when we sent out surveys there were lower take rates some of it was in the downtown area there could have been even though we had U multilingual uh advertising going on for the um for those initial surveys uh the other piece is we also have I don't want to say uh transient population but with the the college or the university there you have people that are only renting apartments for year at a time um but we see now that tape rate coming in significantly higher than before because of advertising at the college or advertising as new people are are coming in and um opening up a new account with the with the with the gas and electric side of the business so do you have any communities besides Westfield that are that have an incumbent provider the next one will be we're star construct Westfield and then um we're doing some work Isam signed a contract with us as well we're doing uh all the design engineering leave is is complete now we're starting to um to do all the all the full application process with them Amden has done a lot of work um they had some political activity there uh and then they've also had a change in the um in their committee so now they're regrouping their committee we're we're hopeful that they're going to have a vote this fall in their special town meeting but that was one came really really close on that town meeting yeah it was it was a two right switch their vote would have pass so um you know it's it's a unique situation so in that case uh Charter had uh paid through a third party you know similar to you know the dumpster fire you know postcard that was so they did multiple postcards there and then they actually had a marketing company go door to door with you know like college kids to um tell them how bad you know it will be for uh for the for the tax rate but but they were comparing it to the the actual Community paying for it for Sub sub subscriber pay prodct so have a couple questions um the Make Ready that's that money is due all upfront before any of the make ready actually starts so as you're doing the poll applications when the uh poll application process comes back the cost comes from the utility Verizon or or ever source and then you you to get your place in line you you pay up front Okay so basically we pay for the whole town and then they event we get that actually do right okay but what we do right now um for the past year we've had uh uh meetings with Verizon and eversource every other week now the the um the town representative or she's more of a she's the C Chief Information officer I guess so she's on on the it side and their lawyer is uh is taking part or they're both taking part in those meetings now and things uh especially on the eversource side really uh ramped up uh this for the first four fsas to get done um now we're running into a Slowdown from the Verizon side so eversource hires all their contractors out for rizon um in their Union contract you have to use their Union employees to do all the work then uh subsequent question uh service areas there you know 19 on here are these broken down by equivalently or equal number of potential subscribers or is it based on costly infrastructure typically it's in a in a 200 to 250 [Music] um subscriber uh area so um yeah equal number Tom probably correct me on this but you have the um fdh so the fiber Distribution Hub which is a 288 panel you know so you have 288 plugins available we try to limit it to 250 or less so that especially in a town like Southwick where you could have expansions you could have uh more subdivisions coming in that we have um in that case you know 30 to 40 um ports available to add on um before you then have to bring in a full full fiber run from the central Hub or the Hut to to another area that's another thing with the Hut is whether you want a physical telecommunications Hut or if you um somebody had said something about area available either in the police or fire station if you wanted to to do that there are some you know build outs really needs to be a a clean room space needs you know additional like mini split uh um you know for for the conditioned air in that area for like a server room we're kind of set on a Hut we kind of we've talked about it a few times here in in this meeting we've probably got to vote on it but I think we're going to do aut only because we want to make sure that um whip City will have access to the Hut in a period where other resources may be committed elsewhere say if we had a storm and you need to get to the hut or fire police DPW Maybe be committed elsewhere and will not be able to Avail you access to where you need to get to so we I think that's that was the main driver and we have room on the campus here we think the other outlier was the um the generator that you have for the campus is it sized enough to correct fire that so then that would save you think we have that we think we have that too you need to know that soon though for the design just so they know where to bring beeder fibers to yeah for the design yeah and then you know so if if you have that then that's a that's a home run because that will save you 50 60,000 exactly I didn't mean to interrupt you oh that's um So based on it I'm guessing it depends on the design but we have approximate numbers of what service areas are actually going to cost so that you know the first few we know how a bunch of those and what the expected revenue is going to be to offset on so as far as the each individual area we didn't I don't have the with me at least I don't have the the 19 broken out um there's possibility that uh from our do we have that broken out I don't think we do based on the fact we don't know all what you know they didn't break it out through over under Sur yeah the survey is not fully done uh the survey is done for and I believe waiting for checks to get sent for the poll applications uh for uh major major rways you know as far as if you look at 10 and 202 um 57 what we run into in in couple towns is and and I know um it happened in East Hampton where a third party started just doing full applications because they knew that Community was interested in a different option than the uh than the incumbent um Telecom supplier so um they were then getting in the in the queue and in line first U but there is also so what we did here was um I believe what the blessing of this group was to start the process and get those done which I think those are done obviously because now it's waiting for checks from accounting waiting for checks from County the Tom administrator called me yesterday and wants to go through the pro process so they go to the right place we chatted yesterday just probably right before she called you and and each application needs its own own SE for check so that's um every almost every town that we worked with sent one bulk check and it's like no you can't do that then the check get sent back and you keep getting kicked you had much success in directing them where you want to make ready to start first yeah so that's how we did the applications in um in westbr so in westbr we're just going to start with a pilot of four Fiber service areas and then um company was goet speed or hotel Co went in they started um you know doing a poll survey somebody actually saw them doing it it was like Hey you know you what company are you and that got to back to the the town the town contacted us we went back and forth Town says yep let's let's get it in before they do that's what we did uh of course they weren't happy because they were in the process of making that you know an investment to do it too bad there is actually part in the in the law that um the town has to say of who can attach Bulls at the end corre um that situation we just went through in East long u because another a third party there because it's it's public information so people know that that it's out there so then another third party was was doing that there uh East Long Meadow served them with with a notice and they withdrew their applications and I think just as an aside one of the things that we know we talked about on this board here and we T we've been talking about this since the very very beginning even the when we had our first our first iteration of this committee was if we're going to do this we're going to do the whole to we're going to be committed to that 100% build out from at you know that's why you have the 19 service areas it's it's not up for it wasn't really going to be up for negotiation or discussion but what that does in my mind is you know we can do the poll applications and we'll have those checks and and this that and the other but once you start we cannot stop so we're going in for you know 17 million right we can't stop once we spend the first you know half a million we're all in and we can't we will not have really a way based on what we the way we went to town meeting the way we went in front of the the voters you know three times now um we made two commitments one was that we're going to do the whole town that's the premise and second was when we're when this is all said and done and we're built out and a certain number of years after that and the bond the bonds are paid off by the revenues here and that we're not going to be going back to the taxpayers to pay off to finish paying off the debt or pay you know any of the debt from this project that's why we've been really deliberate probably a little slower than we needed to be but that's where that that's the commitments we made to the taxpayers and town media um and I think this group as a whole has really kind of held to that steadfast and I appreciate it and we've been this is the real deliberate step that we have to take next right you know we we'll have the checks for the that we need to have but that in the brand scheme of things that's that's kind of an investment but once you start once we start with the design and then build we're all it and that's why summary tab of spreadsheet yeah where the bonds are has to be revenue for it has to be net positive so that we're not borrowing money from the town to be able to just pay the bill that or or at you know at the end of the project you we we are going to be upside down you know it's almost inevitable you're going to be upside down for a period of time we realize that and you'll you'll do that through borrowing to to make to pay your bills and to to finance the construction but when once that's finished I think at some point you have to be able to say we've retired the bonds and then you know the revenue will still come in and then at the end of who knows where we're going to be 20 years from now as far as technology as far as what we need to replace or we need to go and refresh all of these other things or whatever okay that becomes a whole another discussion whether we want to do it but we we kind of exited this whole thing clean right and I think you know a lot of folks have been in front of the town on various different things I call it the coffee cup of coffee rule oh it's a cup of coffee a day right and or this they heard before oh this will pay for itself and most of the time you're being lied to when you hear that from somebody at town meeting right so we're not trying to do that here we're trying to make you know be good stewards and say okay we're going to do this and you know we think your experience in Westfield is very similar because you had the incumbent so that's going to be very helpful guidance for us to take bre you know we're not going to wait for West Spring West Springfield to build out or east long meow because and see what their take rate is see how they do but certain other things are kind of relevant like what is going to be you know I don't know what they I haven't I don't recall if I know what they are going to charge what's going to be their monthly fees uh West Springfield or East Long Meadow uh West Springfield they had set it three years ago at $75 okay and the mayor is still staying with that they're also a um they have 14,000 potential units so at at 7,000 they're bringing in $2 to $3 million a year in uh in that income so as they're you know as you get those larger numbers East Long Meadow I think is just a hair larger is that right larger then Southwick um their pric is at the $85 Mar so um so that's what what they're what they're looking at we had suggested to West Springfield to go with the 85 yeah so yeah sorry we had set West Springfield when we were going in with the initial Prof former at $85 and um the mayor wasn't fully looking at this as a um an income stream he's looking at it more of this is an additional Benefit Service that is is needed especially you know in 2021 with um with going through covid and that that whole situation and the uh feedback they're getting from students and parents families and teachers that their service was um insufficient is that the I guess the kindest word that I I could put I could probably quote mayor rout and um but we'd have to you know put the beep on there but and also you know Comcast was threatening to um charge data limit fees and all that stuff they couldn't have time that any worse yeah right right right at Co right at Co right so and then the other you know you know the other thing when when you're looking at uh the incumbent uh company it goes up10 to $15 a year just no matter what and there's no no questions no fans of buts it just it just goes up so if you're able to to hold your your cost flat um I was talking with pah this morning just see she's in Southampton southampton's um internet committee uh had recommended us to the to the board as well I asked you know what we're what what she's paying there I think you're what 8 $89 I believe and but started three or four years ago at 40 something dollars M so their their cost is almost doubled for up to 200 megabits per second you know with in that's Charter Spectrum so um so that cost volatility is significant you estimated a buildout cost so the model we were working with was you know quite a bit less than this so MH the service fulfillment for installing new customers uh you have this broken down at all how much of that is because we end up having an install feed and trying to figure out if that's going to cover it so this includes everything this is all installations this is everything so the customer isn't paying anything for for the installation here's um a breakdown I blocked out the the per per unit cost um as well on here that help better yeah once um once the non-disclosure signed we'll provide you everything um well yeah at least this says what's included in itself right so so this gives you the the full breakdown and then the what the total cost so when you look at uh engineering design and field services is 300,000 that's what we're going through right now and then the um the make ready so and just so you know on the on the Make Ready work that's the work that's done by the utilities we don't make any fee or take any fee on that uh and you'll see um at the end do so oh so I blocked off the general so our general contractor fee is um 10% of the project cost excluding the Make Ready cost but this breaks down everything this gives you um right now what we have for the information for your overhead distribution 104 miles uh your underground distribution 16.5 miles the estimated pole count of um you some of the numbers you could you know back into if you really want to break it down um your physical dwelling units so 3685 um you know breaks down L your potential dwelling units or your your drop units um sub ders to you know 30 per per mile uh based on all the mileage and then the anticipated take R and the anticipated subscribers so the construction work that's um so we manage that whole process um we we go out to bid on your behalf after with the with all the design and the uh uh bill of materials or bombs if you you'll have an acronym or two um over time and in three utilities we have quite a few but then you have uh have the breakdown so the service drops that's something that we may we do any install charges that's something that would offset some of that cost yep um potentially you know in the um Hilltown communities every town was different and some didn't charge some did charge some after a certain point in time they charge now but they you know they didn't some still don't and you know so there's right there's a lot of different see especially if we're trying to lure people to come from an incumbent that works you know some of it you know if you have like Doug's mcmansion you know which has a mile long driveway you know those might want to say hey we're covering the first 250 ft after 250 ft you're going to pay um X or um or some number especially or underground up to a certain point and you can you can do that depending on you know the situation some people will will push back and um but if they don't have a decent service or it's a brand new build you know the conduit is going in anyway um the cost there something we can look at too if there is a cost we could spread it out interest three over 12 months or things like that if there going or do do some do any of the communities just charge an install fee flat rate 90 bucks right 100 bucks whatever everyone pays a 100 bucks and or it's a th000 bucks or 1,00 bucks if it's underground it's 26 2700 bucks yeah depending on depending on the length and also what you're running into if you're you know um you know certain area in the South and you're you're running into uh The Rock and stuff like that the cost is going to be more to to dig into if they want underground if there's already conduit there then that's that's a home run or if they' already trenched for conduit then you can potentially you trench lighter over where they've already done yeah and some of this will come out just with our structure bid once we're at that phase so have an idea what the numbers are but running drops and any underground work on and also if there's areas of of Southwick that don't have any service um you know right now you know that the odds are they're going to they're going to take it yeah for good or for bad when we put in predates all of us here when Continental cable vision came in and when was at the early 80s same deal they made them do the whole town so we have so the the incumbent rides that infrastructure right that was put in back then obviously some of it's been replaced since then but um so it the high speed is available everywhere in so we we we took that as an example of why we wanted to do the whole town with the with the mun fiber but um unfort unfortunately for us the whole town is already served so we're we're going to have to and and as far as you know how the how the build out you know again if if you're looking at you know two and a half to three years before the you know the Make Ready Done Construction begins I still want to set those expectations of hey we're not you know you sign a cont contract or whatever is happening today you know tomorrow we're not able to put you know fiber up or anything like that but if you're looking at you know where we do touch you as we talked about earlier but also in in a survey to the town in those you break the survey out to those 19 areas is we did it online in Westfield and that's how we picked that first 70% so you you know click I'm interested or I'm signing up and um you say oh first one's free or whatever spiff or if you need a spiff um and then say if you're the the highest percentage reached you're going to build out that area first because that's where you're the more of your payback's going to come from um and then the areas that you know want it I know for I tell the story when we had that competition I went door too in my neighborhood I texted all my friends in our neighborhood and we hit the um the what was the 100% number which was was um I think for each neighborhood was 40 40% of the 250 uh number so we had it in the first night so we were you know the first one in line um but our neighborhood also had close to a 70% take rade right so we'll once we get to that point we'll start to because do you so that's how you drive it's not necessarily the ones because the density is irrelevant because they're going to obvious going to take longer to build some of those fsas out at the West End because they're just larger well they're longer right so it's it's it's a longer run and then you're you know uh coming off the multi service terminal MST um you know you're just you're just droing it some of those are actually easier there's less you know you know connectors in the middle sure or just longer r runs um I have any more questions in the room Mr Dei don't hold back I'll wait so I had uh oh so there's a question online if you guys can see it from a a Miss Gale no because you're doing it with the guy in West I see the signs everywhere so she's questioning the the take rate and then uh yeah I think we Diane you can feel free to chime in public comment time hi there uh it was just a cut to the chase um the 50% were really um experimental then because there's no basis with other towns they've built out yet um and I'm just curious if there is modeling that has done been done can be done what if the take rate is only 35% what does the rate have to be and what if it's 40% what does it have to be well at at 40% with the the the $28 for whip City fiber and the $85 it was a a loss per year of about 55,000 but you have the ability to change it to 27 and restruction will also change they're calculating Diane % isn't a Westfield thing that's an industry standard number we just don't have our you know like Tom said the hilltowns that we have that's not a fair number to they were dying to get internet so and they were getting state fund back we just don't have enough build out yet as Westfield say what that would be but if you look across country 50% take rate it's basis based on bonding that is a number so one of the on when we were first looking to Chattanooga Tennessee we went down there visited with them their take rate is actually over 60% there I don't know if it's a and they had an incumbent they had an incumbent yeah so if you look at in eastern match so when you look at those postcards that came out or what West frankfield just went through with all the marketing against um you know their their going out to bond and things like that um which by the way p nously with no denters um they they were saying that the um you know they were pointing out how Municipal Broadband was failing but the only two examples that had in Massachusetts were um Russell right which had Russell cable and Comcast were in the same Community but Russell cable had 50% and Comcast had 50% so Russell just on the electric side so you know has 400 customers so Russell cable was running 200 customers is but you know give or take 20 and they were still had to pay for a full headend for for cable they still had to pay for all their programming right and you know you had to pay for it like you had 20,000 customers not 200 customers so Russell had come to us and said hey will you take this and we're like no we don't want it but again it was a case where we don't we don't want to own something somewhere else um so they I know sold it for a song to to Comcast but Comcast still had to upgrade um the system there and their paying Comcast rates now I think uh brain tree was the other one in brain tree there's four there was four competitors brain Tre is still doing fiber uh or internet but they're not doing cabling so it's not a a failure there um but they're Municipal as well brain tree electric but there was four total competitors in the town competing you know for the for the same group I we've had Wester and Chelsea and Cambridge all come and talk to us we're like well wer we don't want to get into they they're too big we had Springfield coming talk to us they're they're too we don't want to get in for us it's too big we'd have to really um really grow but trying to build out those communities and then uh service those communities is is uh near imposs POS for for a company our size um but you know Brian's right when you look at the the full um country the only ones that were having difficulties were the ones that were actually running a Cable business and any internet one were were thriving and we talked about that at length in this committee and as part of our presentation to the select board and as part of the presentation town meeting you know the the the prime examples that the dumpster fire folks mailed out was every one of them to a man they had the one thing they always had was programming and cable TV and we have no interest right and you guys have no interest to be that to be a provider of that right and especially when some of those guys actually own the content right and that that battle happen that Nea group that uh had put that out I was on a panel um say with them a year ago and and that's what he was bringing up is how how much of a failure Municipal uh you know broadband and cable is is and again the question came up well who where you know and and you know of course there's people from the hilltowns in the audience and they're like this is the greatest thing that we ever did because you wouldn't build in our communities because you had no return on your investment right you know and every single one of these communities is turning a profit they all took bonds out and you know you have a a town like uh new Ashford that has 96 customers right for them to take that bond out like their select were almost in tears scared to death taking out this Bond and they're still turning a profit might be you know $2,000 a year but for them that's a significant amount of money we're not looking to make money we just want to pay down the debt yeah we're not looking profit on this to provide a service that's better than what's there because the other the other problem is um you know when you look at who thecomments are we we're out in this area it's only spectrum and uh xinity Comcast they're not putting the infrastructure Improvement here where they're putting the infrastructure Improvement is out in in the Boston area so similar to you know 5G everybody advertises 5G can you get 5G out here not really how you doing over there about a $100 needed for 40% to have a $50,000 net income after and that's with us at yes sir did you did you hear what she said sorry yes sir okay great how about the uh maintenance costs we're estimating and insurance well Insurance you put in right the insurance was 25 the maintenance cost we kept we kept the same I'm not sure where you got the number you were looking at a fiveyear change out for for 's right now for for Westfield we haven't you know if the an fails obviously we change that out but um we haven't come to any loss Factor um on the ons to to have that change out we had the um the same you know in our business plan uh in our in in our um depreciation rate we still had a fiveyear depreciation on on most of our equipment like that um but they're all still still running hard in Westfield we're also um now looking at going two and a half gig to a I don't know which one I apologize I don't know which one's the fast one going up or going down but uh the um the upload speed is two and a half gig and then the download speed would be 1.25 gigs uh at so to to go for a higher speed um and again then you would be able to high you know charge a higher tier um in West Springfield what we're piping them for and what we would pipe here for is 10 gig symmetrical oh so you'd be able to right well you'd be able to do that and provide 10 gig uh symmetrical right that's the equip we had and and for the O that we're putting in it's the Smart Guys on the on the sub had already kind of planned that out so we we went one and and that's what's that's what's priced in here as he said xgs so that's 10 gigabit passive Optical Network I actually knew that I'm an electric and gas guy been the fiber guy now for three years so it's all going good what what have we addressed a lot of what we that were kind of outstanding questions for this to kind of help us fine-tune this model do we feel the big thing is just knowing what the expenses are going to be per service area so that if we frontload expensive ones that's how a very different result have we frontload inexpensive service areas with higher subcriber rates or lowest subscriber rates obviously different variables they give you very different numbers in the end right and when you look at um like the the touching neighborhoods that you would um or we provide the um service with you too and they're underground so those are going to be a little bit more pricey as far as an area but you can get those sooner without going through a poll application process and then those are also that's Revenue uh coming in so I'm not sure off top of my head what um what the number of of homes that went into the greens or that are up in that wouldn't surface area be partial those those will be partial yeah and and and for the most part an extension cord coming in U from PSA or a temporary service area right so are any of the the fsas are loaded by population so that they're rough roughly equal right 250 250 right but is there an more expensive ones or are they or are they relatively level by cost to build out a lot of them are similar unless they have a large number of underground so if you um coming off of Up by the old pioner dairy um so I think Tom might live in that area like Lexington and all that so I believe that's all all underground so that might be um depending I don't think there's a master-free conduit in that area so you know we'd have to put in uh the conduit so that area even though you you'd probably end up with a higher takee rate based on you know uh you know the socioeconomic model in that area where they like okay we're able to fully understand um you know streaming and the capability that streaming has many of them probably already do you know uh stream so that might be a more expensive area to do but you might get a better return more like you know 70 to 75% uh take rate in that area um so then that would also pay that that cost down you know with a quicker return the things that drive the F to are your make ready yeah and as we're doing our engineering and walk Lo arounds we're finding out that sth has not lot of new poles sufficient size poles things like that so we're hoping that that's consistent around the town and your upfront M rate work will be less based on the fact that they won't have to less than what I asking potentially and I think you know there's been a lot of pole replacement projects going on in town and give you guys credit if even if it's not deserved but I think that there's been some push from others that when they were replacing poles to make sure that they were going to have some room for for future stuff um and so we're they're also putting in more Hardy polls because they get it's a more expensive investment to make one time AB that they can then uh utilities can get 12% back in so that's the other the other Factor you know when you look at the transmission projects that are going yes New England needs transmission but these utilities are going gang busters on it so that they get it first and you know you see these billion dollar projects but if you're getting a 12% return year over year over year on on your um you know billion dollars it's pretty good return for the investor yeah before you know you're talking real money huh yeah right away you're talking okay yeah so the the re most recent estiment we had on the Make Ready was somewhere around four million in change including the design and Engineering the number we were looking at a couple years ago when we were having this conversation was closer than two million yep so that obviously represents a very large increase so there's there's cost increase in labor and there's cost increase as well in in uh in the materials so we've seen larger increases so when we were doing the um uh the hilltowns I think the Make Ready per pole was something like you know $650 to $750 on average now it's you know ,000 to $1,100 in some areas but then we're also seeing you know potentially higher in other areas that aren't that haven't seen that reinvestment by the by the utilities hopefully the number new polls and if they're actually leing room on there'll be somewhere closer to three and a half so this this here is almost exact in line with um when we were doing that application for the community comp or you were doing the com uh Community compact Grant application that's uh so that was was that this year or was at the end of last year yeah just a few months ago yeah so this that this is coming off of um pretty pretty close to what that is so we updated all the numbers all the numbers then when we first were here just three three years ago change Maybe um I think it was it was close to like a $9 or $10 million uh overall overall number based on what we had for for estimates and um you know kind of looking at poll number pole mileage or miles of roads here in town what you had filed and then applying a principle of you know 100 feet 150 feet per um per pole in overhead areas and then some estimate for like an 8020 rule based on the age of the town for overhead to underground that makes sense Jim and make ready seven some on for buildout about nine what you said and then number now roughly about 17 million it takes another three years to build it out there's going to be additional costs additional increases in labor materials Etc so we might be looking at some somewhere around 1920 before it's actually all set done yeah um for this I I believe that this is still a pretty pretty conservative number at the at the 1 so um but the other thing you know that will inflation in TOS um inflation not model not in the model we we can but if you're modeling it over the last three years of what inflation's done you know it's yeah I'm not going to get into a political conversation today um but it's it's it's volatile in that but um what we've we've contracted in with I believe most of our um contractors was like a 3% inflation rate in our in our contracts annually so but you know good good questions okay because I'd like to take with with the board's permission or the committee's permission I want to take this back to the full select board um to kind of present where we are and where we're going and then you know have a from this committee is make a recommendation to the select board that we do or don't you know Forge ahe and you want to discuss with Finance too just to make sure that we're all in agreement that without your numbers we want to double check the revenue and double check the the rest of it to make sure that we based on what you're saying that's still kind of makes sense right it it's right on the cusp of of being at a zero doll Endeavor and you we're going to have to play with the take rate I'm kind of happy to hear that the other community um in Westside is which one was at $85 East long or was it West East East Long Meadow is at 85 bucks okay that's so that we're not you know we're not coming from outer space on that number and use that and then we can mess with the take rate a little bit and kind of I think for them they were five to 6 thousand potential dwelling so wasn't you know significantly larger than in South and area wise probably not all that you know how many a little smaller was it yeah I think 25 yeah I thought they were at 5,000 to 25 we down here they're down to 1850 so it's not really that big remember how many you good fiber service [Music] are yeah so% but Myer and the cost up in Hilltown which which do make sense this part is anywhere from 70 to 110 so there's a wide spectrum there they have a little more pricing Authority than we do obviously but um a couple got to the point where they're now actually gon as they as they retire their no not Odin it was Chesterfield Chesterfield Chesterfield just went down from 85 to 75 um I think 85 is unrealistic start out with I think we shooting ourselves in fo I me you got with all your experience and your advantage of being on NLB and in a municipal electric you guys are charging about 70 so I just don't think we're going to get the numbers we need at 85 got to remember from from our side at this at this point 10 years into this we were we were uh scheduled to be $15 higher which gets us gets you to the $85 we also have income coming in from from other sources so we're not we only bonded $15 million our total build out um for Westfield I think it's coming in closer to 40 so when when you look at our what we've invested over the past you know four years that that I've been here it's all been paid for with cash yeah so we've had that that capability um but we don't have any other sources of revenue other than what we hope to B against so no this is going to be an Enterprise fund it's going to stand on its own right and it's got to stand on its own it's it it that's the Paradox right is if you if you make the rate lower you potentially Drive the take rate higher but at you have to look at the model and say okay at $85 and we get 47% brings this much money if we price it a couple dollars higher or lower it's going to drive the take rates you look at the net net money that comes in at the same time the the dwelling units is is fixed pretty much it's going to have some sub changes over the time as new new construction but the build out $17 million that that's the that and then the bonding and the interest on that big that's why it's going to be highly variable like Westfield your 50% take rate is a way higher number of units against you know and the cost is not commensurate I don't believe right so um that that's going to be the real challenge we know what that number is going to be now with the 17 million and then you say okay these are the PD play play with the the take rate and then the the the the dollar rate to judge it against whether you can you know pay your way because this does not you know this is not going to be like we have no intention of treating this like like anything some of our other Enterprise runds that it wasn't built out with foresight enough to have enough users to pay for itself right so it's carried on the tax rate or some other services that you know are health and safety related that we do carry on the tax rate there's no there's been no planning or no discussion and no impetus from the town to carry unifiber on the tax rate so it has to be able to pay for itself and so we have I think we're going to actually probably come to the conclusion after discussion that I think you're you're you're right and what you're gonna have to say is look $85 is the number that's going to we think will drive a take rate of we have to answer that question which will drive this much revenue which will enable us to pay down the bonds if we say no it really needs to be $85 can we do 8 and I'm making up 85 but $85 at 50% % puts us plus 50 Grand let's just say that's the answer if we say oh no the Market's telling us at 50% we we have to be at $65 and we're at minus $120,000 projects in nonstarter we can't do it so we have to find that balance and we know the cost we can't change that so we have to figure out those two numbers sir chair um one thing to think about with uh Westfield we've had a competitor we had an incumbent is this was back in 2015 where streaming wasn't even a thing and even with people we actually did um digital antenna installs and we still had a really high tape rate so now post um postco everybody knows what streaming is now so that's something to think about as far as um adaptability and people understanding the technology which would help your take other thing when I transferred over my cable bill was 300 just over $300 a month and that was with I probably six boxes or or whatever and all the additional cost two two phone lines or whatever and uh the the full package with up to what was the max then was 250 U megabits per second which I was up 10 down 10 on on the speed test today I got whip City fiber it was 10 megabits per second up 10 megabits per second down Wireless when I got Web City F was 700 up 700 down and just it's it's a totally totally different product um so it's it is it's marketing it's getting the word out it's you know if people already have so and at that point we also already had Netflix and Amazon Prime so that cost was an additional to the to the $300 so we were already paying that anyway and then came down to uh the $69 plus the um I think the what phone cost 20 bucks for uh for two phone lines on the on the voice over Internet Protocol so that's the other you can also have Revenue coming in if people still want to have a home phone um the the cost of that you know still recommend well with our cost with taxes and everything now is all all included is like $21 a month and that includes the the two lines that's Uma based product um but even with that you can you know charge $15 make you know $4 or or whatever per subscriber per month on that and then the the the taxes come in after that so there's there's other products in there you also have uh commercial customers depending on you know what the commercial load is right um what the the schools you know can we can go through what uh we do with wfi Public Schools as well we're the provider for that um and then even you know larger larger um users or commercial users where um I mean you have um the industrial park up there they want you know Wi-Fi in there you can probably use the same equipment that they have and and just plug in in fiber and potentially be a third to half the price of uh of what they're getting charged at in at a better speed right and you we we focused a lot on this just because we focused on the residential rate mostly because that's what we're going to have most of there is going to be a significant Dollar in in business we we've kind of been discounting it we used a little bit in the modeling but I think there is a you know a greater discussion to be had there around what you know how you price that and um you know for different businesses and and you know what you're going to provide for them and there's some additional services in our agreement for business customers because the the $28 goes away it's a different number number and some other stuff so it's it gets a little more complicated Mass so we've been trying to keep it relatively simple but to your point when you get down to plus or minus 50 Grand that business customer's money you know the revenue side and the expense side becomes really important it might be the it might be the difference between you know being plus 50 or minus 30 right sure potentially charge C Business customers $50 and that could cover a 5% subsidy to all the consumer rates well and but deal for a business but you have to yeah if it is a and that's for marketing you do a survey to say you know you work at wle right so if if you say what are we paying for the this internet service now what are we getting for it and you say Okay Wally's paying $1500 a month because you need X number of you know users and all this stuff and what you're paying and then like I think our largest cost customer um in Westfield is $600 a month you know for and they get one gigabit up and down they want to go to 10 gigabit up and down we're going to provide it to them at a significantly higher price and they're willing to pay because to get that from from the other supplier is ridiculously high and then we're still we're still making money it's actually not even that much of a of an up cost from us but I I just look I I think I've I look at some of the business customers more you know my you know in the industrial park there may be some other examples of people that need much larger bandwidth or much other services on top of that you know maybe they want 10 gig and they need 50 IP addresses Etc but then you've got a lot of other small to medium businesses up and down College Highway and elsewhere in town that they might be very well served with essentially the residential product just they're going to get the business rate and then you you start to ask yourself how what can I do for that yeah fori I think that's like $89 plus $12.95 for a static IP yeah you know you know and maybe that you know maybe that's right maybe it's you know and I don't I'd have to look into that you know and think about this a lot more but if you know I'll just pick a random business we have brand new bagel place right I yeah what do you charge them you know what are they going to need for their for their service and what would they well I I think 250 a month to me would be a little high for a b you know that type of business and what they're doing it might be great they might be us it for digital signage and for for whatever and then you've got restaurants and and other places that may want to have some more streaming services that they offer you know to patrons that are in the facility or whatever um and and maybe that you know that $150 or $200 is is a fair and reasonable amount I don't know the answer that I'm Haven talked to a lot of business folks about this at this the you know the other end of the some of it's also what are they paying now yeah absolutely 100% well if you have a a EOS system and a credit card terminal what drives us right literally but what but what are you paying and I you know if you if you don't mind what is your internet bill for for that I don't know I don't pay bills we do it based on users so it's kind of a a you know way to look at it is right know the shops and all the others that are five or less people on it it's 20 bucks more than the residential rate somebody that's got 30 people in it you know bigger bandwidth usage is going to pay more but it's still basically every time we propose it is less than what sure and that and that's really going to be The Driver to to drive adoption from a business perspective and the speed and and the people yeah because this the bandwidth and the performance is going to be a driver but you know and people may not be indicative of the usage right you could have you know a type of business that's going to just you know Murder the bandwidth developers pulling databases dat you know or graphic designers pushing V you know editing videos and you know whatever that's going to be a big deal and then topic for a different day but you're the point that I take out of this is that we do have to look at that really careful because that there are enough businesses in town I think that you know we'd have to look at that and see how many there are and then work with maybe even talk reach out to EDC and say hey what do you think about this or help me or they have a good listing now with businesses we could take a look at that and say um you know when you get down to it being that close could be a decisive Factor well that is a good question do you guys have a number on take rated businesses in town west that's well that's increasing every day now so what we focused on when we were building out was the residential base we already had business customers so we had a um I know the ter but we had a fiber optic ring so we had a three- ring system I forget the type of fiber it was we yeah so we had commercial customers in the city on that so we were we already had experience in that market so any of the larger um like a proampac or Advanced manufacturing or mtec they were already on that because it was significantly cheaper and significantly uh faster than um what what K stop saying the incumbent you so or the the the other provider was was bringing um so it made all the sense in the world to do that now we're transitioning those customers off of what they had so we didn't need to quickly respond to to to get into those um because you we were making the same amount of you know 15 um residential customers that we were off off of them because they weren't we not really charging a lot of money and realistically that's what we're supposed to do as a municipal you know Municipal Light plant we're supposed to provide lower rates which you know if you look at the the past year you you look at um even even hoo and Westfield and chicke and South Hadley compared to ever source of National Grid we were one at at the highest we were onethird of their cost if not one in some some uh periods of time one5 of their cost um so we're we're passing that all all along and that saving straight to uh straight to the rate P which is what we're also doing on on the fiber side we didn't have to um follow that original business plan and raise the rates $5 dollar every three years so we're providing that benefit and at even at the same time we were able to build out without increasing uh more debt load um so we're what happened for Westfield and and we wanted to provide that additional service you know when we were looking at that that 10 and 11 years ago we were able to do that and be able to pay for itself um but you know that original plan was only based on 70% availability in Westville and there was it was a very very slow buildout uh plan after that so we're you know in the end that very slow period was probably going to be 2035 we're now going to hit that at the end of 2024 um and so we're able to to R that up through the to the whole community so Westfield is 18,500 customers and the mileage in Westfield I think were the is it the second or third largest community in westfi as far as the the area Road mileage yeah so being able to do that great being able to bring that product in um you know in I forgot who we did the example for might have been hamen um actually hamen did it when they were presenting to their to their board and they said if it was um if there had to be an increase of tax rate and the worst possible scenario they were coming up with it was $8 a year you know for for the increase to the tax rate to meet the bond payment in that in that case and and you know majority of the people there were like yeah absolutely the ones that were voting no they just got told the story that just scared the pesas out of them and they didn't you know they want that and you know couple people we talked to lately oh you know Spectrum donated $5,000 to the senior center like that's it be yeah we just donated you know $5,000 to the cancer House of Hope you know it's like all right you know and the boys and girls club in Amelia Park and the YMCA and we're able to you know every almost every nonprofit in Westfield reaches out to us and we're able to least you know contribute something to every every golf tournament I don't know if anybody golfs here but every golf tournament that's been in Westfield or the ranch has a $5 $500 hole in one credit or or um you know different different prize plus plus sponsorship um so we're in a different position obviously um because we're you know $10 million business but at the at the same time we want to help communities like South like white like West bran least met hon you know Southampton and all these other uh Hilltown communities that we're we're working with to provide a product to their to their town that says you know at the end of the day it's it's your Town's product um so you know it's not water or sewer and know you know if you're mad at Westfield for the sewer bill it's not the gas and electrics B well not yet well not yet battle for a different day we'll take that up guy I'll be the first guy in line at the uh so we have enough to go on for future think and we'll pull this group back together I have something to bring back to the select board to kind of give them a little bit more data than we've had previous um and we'll go from there do you have anything else you want to add or think we're good we're available for that meeting if you need us we will certainly let you know and and we will get that other thing executed I just wanted to make sure that I didn't want to exceed my Authority if we have to vote on it and then we'll all sign it you know or have yeah right yep so I'm gonna steal all this this stuff back Wally Park Wi-Fi that's that can be done through this whole process yeah so when we did the Joe when we did the we got a grant as part of the municipal fiber Community compact Grant of 250,000 and we listed every single every single Municipal piece of property you could think of yeah short of real vacant land but every Pump Station every well pump station every part even the cemetery oh good because those guys are real popular they're just dying how many phones got buried in those caskets I'm so happy yeah Self Service it helped us bu fiber north to south that's Southern most point we could get to but we also included the boat ramps right W par okay you name it so that when we do the build out we're gonna we're going to go buy all these places anyway but now sure to go buy them and the St Park been the biggest drama so and they actually talked about that at Park and wck just last night know they're talking about the electronic blocks for the doors costing gazillion dollars well 34s of a gazillion was the to put infrastructure up there to support it yes so but once we can get get there with um you know with unifiber the other thing you'll be able to do is create a network that rides on this network that it's our own so it's it's not out to the public so the you know DPW and you know some of the tunnel that we have now that rides over the incumbent right we will'll run on our own fiber so that'll be a benefit for the town as well and that and the $250,000 is in this modeling to offset the overall buildout because frankly it doesn't cost any more because it's a it's a strand on the fiber as you go around to do some of this stuff sure I'm greatly oversimplifying it but you know so you'll be able to do that um the other shortterm option too coming off the bike pad oh three schools yeah the three schools right $89 a month per school right is that how I heard that no see see here's the thing that's Southway we can charge different we make them pay that but no that I mean those are those are your biggest users but they're also the the people you want to help the most as far as getting that speed capability through and and they've been all for it they've been a big supporter in fact we were a little dismayed that um with the state we did an application in combination with the South ball and Granville Regional School District hoping to double the grant because they it wasn't an in Municipal application with more than one because they're a a municipal government just like we are uh State didn't see it that way so it gave us the 250 we were hoping for half a m but 250 is better than 250 is better than zero so we'll take it and thank you and right but the you know the schools are certainly a key factor in this and abut also the library right because that's a good user so we'd have to figure out what to where's the library adj literally like head into the school complex so all right let anything else before we take a motion to adjourn so you have to watch your um residential commmercial under the same household that's G to be a whole another issue right we have plenty of them you know and it is and you just got to look at it and go you got to figure out how many it is we didn't really ever talk about it right like is it 15 or 20 of them and you go 40 you're only looking at like $15 difference and so you 15 times you know 10 it's $150 and in net revenue and yeah you can kibit with them and say you know you got it true up but it's not gonna that's not going to drive the overall thing not but all right anyone else last call public comment Miss Gil the checks that you need for the polls is coming sir I'll set okay thank you very much thank you uh yeah we actually I don't think we've I don't want to misspeak but I Laura has an accounting which I I gave to this board a couple of months ago um we had an initial from trunch one of arpa money Y and then we had $900,000 which we had not even touched one penny of and now we have the 250 so we haven't had to borrow any money but once we we're even these checks it may cut into the 900 by to start using some of that money but it's once we go say okay we're going to actually commit to the yes the rest of it we're in and we got to go and if we're going to be upside down we're going to be upside down if we're upside down we start when we upside down we finish that's the thing we have to figure out I think to me this was very reassuring I really really appreciate you guys coming in I think it was really super helpful that's all I got motion to adjourn anyone second no someone's got to make it second second okay all in favor all thank you very much