##VIDEO ID:pKI__UMp6zs## all right we will open the planning board meeting for Tuesday August 20th 2024 this is being conducted in a hybrid manner for student general laws if anybody is recording that is fine you have think to let us know anyone okay uh 7 o'clock Town planner's report thank you very much Mr Dy uh just a few items to share with the planning board members this evening um I wanted to Circle back not to make a discussion but just to report on the inquiry through Town Council regarding alternative locations for a Riz and other telecommunications Tower uh my response to Town Council was that the suggested location at the for pioner Dairy presented a greater number of issues than perhaps were encountered at the uh location of the original application uh some of this is said in the darkness I reconstruct what I know pull some facts of from you all individually in terms of what happened over the Lexington Circle area um but the suggestion was that perhaps some justification U be provided or some further investigation be undertaken looking at some of the other sites that originally were outside of the former overlay districts uh that may be more suitable and have less uh impact under the current Wireless telecommunications La uh I'll also share I think everyone knows but uh for the sake of clarity transparency uh after the issuance of the planning board decision for 771 College Highway the Dollar General project uh the decision was appealed um and I think in the interim between the July excuse me the June meeting and the July meeting there was um a filing in court challenging the validity of our so just that heads up uh that we're working through yes two separate FES um so we are I'm working through request for information um related not only to that particular project file uh but also to all of the special permit approvals and denials in the BR District uh in lands that were changed out of business restricted so busy work perhaps but want to make sure everyone was best of the doings I'll have to report them all any questions John what was the problem with fin area what the biggest concern so the specific concern that I shared with Town Council had to do with uh land uh currently occupied as yard space at an AB buding property that was within the traditional fall [Music] zone there are opportunities for flexibility for the Fone radius built into the more recent um telecommunications to bylaw but in my estimation the flexibility is not intended to allow that fall zone to encounter occupied uh some 5 public comment anybody have anything for the board tonight that is not on the agenda that they wish to bring to our attention okay I'm sorry may I make one more you may I'm G to go back for one second for the sake of anyone who didn't hear me said it earlier Samantha grond is our new planning board uh administrative assistant and I remain grateful uh to the town for uh going through the process to find her uh and help her begin alongside so like to have her all right um2 yeah uh I long enough yeah you saw you dance other than should we do the calendar because we can't continue anything unless we know when our next meeting is prare point excellent point um I was looking for something to do and that is be number one on your thank you um is there the only one John that I would ask is are we able to move um that February are we able to tighten up the February so that we can expand the March is there a reason why we can't do that not that I'm aware school vacation is we 217 oh is that okay all right um I know you guys are sometimes different but yeah ours is in Mark that's why I was ask so okay so that makes sense then um so yeah okay all right we have another conflict written into my draft for November 5th that needs to be resolved what's the election day yes did um did we look at election day is that why may is the way it is I think confir so [Music] um why can't we move with the week before October 29 we can do that I had suggested a couple of movements to kind of make it by weekly um if we wanted to change September to the 10th and the 24th we could do the 8th and the 29th in October because November has to get moved to the 12th and then you start hitting Thanksgiving week so it kind of right so run run it through just AIT so I can see you want to give him my that last last one I have John or do you not have it pulled up 10th you said 10th and 24th of September right I figured this out late last night so let me just pull it up so I don't missp speake because I've got a couple of different options here hold on so September 10th and 24th yep October 8th and 29th November 12th and 26th and then doe December 10th isn't the 26 the Tuesday before Tuesday before Thanksgiving it is I'm usually the one who complains about that though but I mean is there a reason why we can't move the December 1 to the 17th nope and then we can move the November 26 to the uh 2 no third yes thank you I remember how many days each month has what's 2017 so November would just be the 12th and then December would be the 3rd and 17th is that right work change in November to what let us figure it out first because November 5th don't put it in your yeah I know that's why we're join us that's a little something special for everyone yeah you just want to see if we were paying attention I would just check in to find out when glass fish season open fair enough make sure it's not on a Tuesday this year all right um check anything that work for everybody yeah and then at the very end from summertime obviously we're usually pretty flexible about that but the July 15th to August 19th is a five week wait so I figure if we make it June 24th July 22nd and then August 19th but gives us four weeks four weeks four weeks instead of okay yeah your life does said your life does okay uh anything else that have enough for you okay so we'll be will starting with September 10th right so September 10th will be the next meeting yeah all right thank everyone for your thoughtful review and in all uh 710 contined public hearing 662a College Highway we have our request for continuation with the aim to get a new layout to look at in the first week of September so uh do I hear a motion to continue 662a College Highway to September 10th at 710 p.m Dave Spa so moved s second roll call vote Michael I Dave Spa i s i dve i just the th and I all right you two 7:15 continued public hearing Oak Bridge Estates at Mor B Road definitive subdivision plan and storm water management permit application okay um all right um so John yes well um I can let John talk about whatever he wants to talk about too but John and I uh walked through with Terry Reynolds God knows when it was uh the other day um let's put it that way and uh walk through the site to look at um where the proposed open space was going to be so the two um areas with the basins in the front and then the area in the that large lot that is I forget how many acres in the back there okay um and the which I think was extremely helpful at least in my mind um because we're kind of going back and forth about how much to cut off with that back lot and make it usable and when you walk that lot there's a pretty defined sort of line of trees that sort of separates two areas and it goes down into a little bit of a a ditch but it goes down a little bit and has trees there and so um actually I took a picture of it if anybody wants to see it dear shelter for the wind um there so you know and it and it and then with the slope two coming up of it you know where you would put where you would sight the house it kind of makes sense um so that's sort of like the line you know so you come in here and then you have this line of trees which kind of goes down into this thing um so anybody can take a look through those if you want but there's two only two of them um so I think it's pretty that is Terry where was that spot where did that end up cutting it off with the acreage uh well we revised it you had suggested we needed to make it a little bigger um so we revised it to five acres and I can uh I can share my screen and show you where that falls if you could that would be um why don't I share um got the aial with it laid out on it and I can share that can you all see this give it a minute and hopefully yes that's good yeah okay so um can you see my pointer y okay so this is the area that we're talking about for open space when we walked out we walked out along what would be the access through here and this was what we saw for the tree line where the slope starts breaking and it goes down to a a sort of flat area down here and sloped on both sides uh so now we've got about five acres back here leaving this area that can be you know more of estate type lot in here um so it's a nice nice Treet area going down in back here uh you know a trail system can come in and loop around and you know come back nice little lolly pop back there yeah and I think I mean that's if you're what's being proposed um sort of benefits from that area in the back versus the area in the front um I think more if you're going to put in some trail or you know use that as the open space will there be an established Trail to get to yeah that's the other discussion point right and how we want to deal with that um you know Terry I don't know where that where did that end up falling as far as the proposal for how to maintain I mean you know I think you know it's it's relatively easy to Mark between blazing trees and and staking posts where needed um so it's clear where the trail is I think um it would make sense to maybe Mark some boundaries along this route on both sides where the trail is um uh basically this is showing a 20 foot wide uh route to come through uh it would be completely dedicated for the open space it's not just an easan um and the benefit of that is it also creates a setback so a house that gets built in here can't get too close to this access point and vice versa um and you know I think the ongoing you know once it once the the trail is established you know the association and those using it will need to you know do ongoing maintenance to continue that um you know to make to ensure it doesn't get all grown in or whatever way it is the the woods are fairly open and uh in the understory and stuff so it it's pretty pretty ready for for having that developed that way did you have a proposal for how to delineate it at the beginning of the trail uh you know we could delineate it with um wood chips um the proponent going to have an abundance of those once he starts chipping up the the stock piles of trees and brush that left um so we can start it by doing that along with some blazing to to make it clear where the edges are on that axis going in what a sign be appropriate for that I mean in my mind I think [Music] um I think some kind of permanent markers I mean we did it over at the greens but having some sort of permanent markers at the entrance is probably a useful thing um you know keeping in mind it's obviously between two properties and so you want to be respected to spectral for the property owners but I think something that is permanent at the entrance needs to be there because reality is I mean you know ideally they keep up the trail and the wood chips but you know that's something that may very well not stay there so um yeah depending on the um it'll need to be maintained over the time so I you know I think markers and and vals in the audience there um but um I think markers seem fine seem appropriate yeah and I um what's the do you remember the language we had in the um you don't have to pull it up right now but have it available yeah um I mean at some point before we get to the opinion why we pull it up um what's past this open land is some else's property the land out in here yeah yeah is that somebody else's property yeah yes it's not it's not part of the development um okay Terry is that owned by um Val as well or no no no these are these are other owners okay you own the stuff on the yes yeah over here no any um okay um okay what does this bring the total open space number two so we end up with a total open space of just over 10 acres um and so that translates to um approximately uh we're 10% is 7.6 so uh what is that um 133% or something somewhere in that range you know and I think as much as I've had issues with using the Basin as open space and I do still have a issue with that as a principle right or a loan the size of the one um you know if you're looking at the plans to the right there the larger the two it's actually potentially a decent open space to use I wouldn't necessarily it shouldn't necessarily be by itself but I think when in combination with this one in the back it provides two sort of different options of open spacing um you know is a nice a useful something that is actually potentially going has the potential at least to be used as open space yeah this is a nice this is is a really pretty nice wet Meadow down in here um obviously we have a basin right in here but this this area behind here is a wooded area there's a little little pond in there um you know and so it's it is a it is a nice little space right in there U you know this this space here you know it it has limited use you know and I I agree um but it's also you know it'll it'll be a nice somebody wants to go out and just sit and take in the day um sort of spot okay um any other um questions or comments from the board for the open space the large the 5 acre section in the back there how is the boundary between it and the adjoining residential lot defined or marked take we can just take well I know they going to take the trail to get to it they going to do the same for the on that view at least the one the up the vertically running boundary in the back you mean or front in the in the well I guess in the front of the open space right here yeah um yeah I mean that's got to be delineated in some way [Music] um uh though I you know you know it has to be delineated some way I guess I have less concern about that only because it's going to be the property owner who's going to want to do that um so but I mean I do think that that and that we can sort of um you know I think the permanent in my mind the permanent markers have to be at the front of the trail um you know we can be I don't want to say less formal but you know using you know players of trees or whatever to like a diagram of that you like a diagram of the open space on a sign going in you go back 3 feet and then you got here it is oh noid yeah yeah on once it trails in there you know I mean folks making mountain bike trails and all that basically you skid off the the pine needles leaves and you create a trail that way and then you may put some blazes on on trees as you go in um and that's going to stay there for quite a while and depending on the use um if there are blazes out there you know it'll it'll it'll take quite a while before you lose the trail again um so it'll it'll take people going out and maintaining it and using it and if it's used regularly it won't be a problem you know and then if it's not obviously then then you don't have to worry about people going out there so go ahead um okay any other um questions or comments from the board all right any um Town officials have any questions or comments any public questions or comments all right and do I hear a motion to uh close the hearing Dave so moved second we'll do a roll call vote michor I Dave I I David I Jess and I okay all right um we will hit a few other things and then we will get into the decision and the vote um which is somewhere in what business right you have yeah okay all right if anything that's going to be okay all right uh 720 public hearing 250 College Highway propose renovation reconstruction of a pre-existing non-conforming family dwelling special permit and flight plan approval application thank you for that's should be pretty quick I'm [Music] sorry um yeah is there um Rich you're here you're here for the uh Depot right yeah um yeah no no no I don't mind taking that I mean that's going to be quick so um yeah we will let's I haven't opened up the public hearing yet so um no no no no no said I'm talking about the 50 c Tower we G open it up so pop this thing in under discussion so deot Square request to release performance security under the storm water management permit this are just for your pick up where we left off a month ago rich cyck on behalf of 20 Depot Square LLC Tim Luci here he just asked me to uh look into the bond and then reach out to Ben coil or or Mark beglin and I did and so I sent him everything Mark and I had multiple conversations he had three comments to the mou which I made changes on one was to put a time restriction 180 days which I put in there one was to make sure the manhole cover gets tied into the indemnification which I did and lastly to tie the town into the indemnification which I did and as a result thereof on the very first page is Mark's last email to me saying the Revis mou is acceptable and the planning board it's discretion can release the current letter of credit as as its members wish so um that's what you asked me to do that's what I did and Mark's all good with it and I gave you a copy of the of the final final draft with those three very very minor changes that he wanted and that's it and sooner we can release the letter of credit the faster you can get in the ground been a few years oh W 2012 I think was when the letter credit was first issued March 5 2012 [Music] sorry I'm just trying to and see [Music] holding the plan board holding the town that's there you go that's exactly what I am that's the only thing that I'm just trying to run through in my head and just see where it the references are correct yes so the indemnity was in paragraph 1D and two um and I added specifically the planning board and he was he was fine with but I can I can at your request I can read print that and put the town of southw and the southw planning board I can do that in two I can do that tomorrow morning and I'll send that by I can just report that through John back to Mark and say that the planer board just said add town of Southwick and we're all in concurrence with it yeah I think wherever it's referen in here reference both the town and the planning board only because um you know yep gotta yep not a problem two seconds yeah um now for the final final draft again to John and so rich can you just um the three changes again you that one more time right so on paragraph 1D y you just wanted me to add the language to include the one manhole cover in front of unit number nine okay so I did that and then he wanted the language at the end um to put the town of South planning board in paragraph 1D and then lastly he wanted paragraph two okay that was it all perfect um so I think with those changes um we can take a we can so basically wherever in this memorandum of understanding there is a reference pic or the pic plan board it'll both exactly um so with that um I hear a motion to um make sure I'm reading this correctly um do I hear a motion to release the performance security under the St Water Management permit for uh Depot Square uh in exchange for the execution of uh this agreement with the town and the condoman Owners Association Dave penis move a second call like i b i d i okay finally thank you very much well done well done more on rich I come on up I do appreciate the respect for an attorney's time I mean I really to charge any from someone who's been charged by an attorney on all right that's awesome all right so [Music] um public hearing for 250 College Highway I me just move on something if I this now make you move quicker KN that's in your pocket notice a public hearing uh notice is hereby given in accordance with the provisions of Master owner Law chapter 48 section 11 of the town of South B bylaw that the planning board will hold a hybrid public hearing on Tuesday August 20th 2024 at 7:20 p.m. via zoom and in the town hall of 454 College Highway south of Mass on an application by Andre mosesi for a special permit and site plan approval for property located at 250 College Highway in the Resident 40 rity zone property is shown on current accessor map 1334 the applicant proposes to permit the renovation reconstruction of a pre-existing non-conforming multif family dwelling in accordance with the Cod souw zoning bog chapter 185 section sections 9 10 12 28 and 30 soon information is provided copy of the application of plans may be inspected by contacting the town planner John Gard at his phone or email any person interested or wishing to be heard on the matter should appear at the time and man designated Authority chairperson South planning board okay believe FL thank you uh good evening for the record F crao ALC associate here tonight for the special perment application um for the property at 250 call Highway um just to familiarize with the property believe this has been in front of the the board before uh before the zoning uh bylaws were amended uh but there there's an existing Residential Building located on the property the property as it currently sits is in the R40 Zone and it has a which requires obviously if you're going to subdivide today would require 4 you know 40,000 foot lot so the lot itself is a 24,1 188t lot there's an existing Residential Building um with a four apartment units um and we have records um based on the assessors and water data that support that this this was in residential use so basically the special permit it was filed under Section um what was it 18528 B1 B12 B1 A2 which says that um any abandoned or discontinued uh use for period equal to or greater than three years but less than 10 years may be altered upon a special permit granted by the planning board so what we are proposing is to maintain the residential use a 4unit apartment building on the property at in the same general location of the existing building with with a modified site plan and um that is the application that is in front of the planning board so it's an existing residential or unit building that we are proposing to reconstruct SL alter into a a 4unit residential building which uh we believe under the soing bylaws is allowed by any special permit through the planning board so with that I can uh help uh answer any questions the board may have [Music] um really generally theist of the application existing four unit private building to be altered into a new four unit we definitely need some help now yeah yeah um we have Board of Health director that kind of kind of point out a few uh questionable items that you know the building is just obviously was built in 1900 so obviously it's been through it's been around for a while so need some it needs some what's the deal with the 19 parking space um 9 plus 4 plus six yes um I mean that's the parking spaces that are shown um so if you have four maybe two per should just be eight maybe nine if you wanted to be generous for guest parking maybe 10 um but it's like you guys are pulling in the driveway right it's like right now it's just kind of a gravel correct around and so correct why add that much parking spaces absolutely um I don't see a parking calculation on here so we can certainly reduce those back six at the at minimum at minimum these back six here the ones around the building might just kind of make sense to do that but yeah right the those back six there probably just uh B them I would I wouldn't even approve a banking of them to be honest you don't need that many GNA try and use that front facade on that building stuff oh I don't know yeah it's been around for a while okay number of parking spaces all right um so I'm just trying to go I mean I'm trying to go through I guess well let's back up for one second so how many where are we stand down you know with days oh how many days until I supposed to expect since till we hit that 90 days 90 days or starts no no when it's when the when it's yeah stru approval by the office right they had a certain time I believe I'm G to go with9 for the I believe that's the their review period but that's 90 days following the submitt of information through the town court corre all right so we're approaching it um but I would say not there okay you have putting aside how this goes tonight and whether we need to go to another heing date or whatever else right putting that up um do you have thoughts on as a general matter whether it makes sense uh to continue this to the next meeting simply to get beyond the Attorney General approval period because you are applying under bylaw that hasn't gone through the process yet it was approved a town meeting the attorney general has a set period of time which top of my head I don't know um got to approve it and if it's built in such that if the Attorney General doesn't say anything within a period of time it gets approved by you know the passage of time um so that is probably sometime toward the end of this month maybe into September a little bit I'm not quite sure how long town clerk right it depends on when the town clerk sent it and assuming that we're right on the 90 days and I I think we are because that's generally been my memory is that like September beginning of September is when these things get approved so I you know and this I'm just throwing this out to you just you may not have thought about it before but um you know it may make sense from an from a risk standpoint for the applicant to let that L out before sure yeah absolutely um I guess it would only be does that would that conflict with the special permit timeline because there also is a there's a certain period in which the Board needs to act it [Music] close but so long as the matter is continued through the public hearing process then that kind of HS the either end y got it so just I mean again you don't have to make a decision right now and it may be that we have to continue it at the board anyways right um so but just to put that because I my understanding is that the advice is that you could act but the risk is on the applicant um though I still think that's a bit of an open question as to whether we have the authority to act when something hasn't been approved by the Attorney General but I think that at least legal advice from Town Council has been we can act like this as to marijana but the risk is on the applicant until such time as it has actually been approved by them yeah the board well so if the board I mean would make a decision could we just like wait to do anything until after that has been ratified but may not be but it may not be ratified which would then make the decision kind of move I would unless you think that there is unless there is some degree of urgency to again this this sort of doesn't um factor in if the board decides we want another we want to continue it and talk about stuff more but putting that aside unless there's some urgency to getting a decision well frankly you're not going to get a decision tonight because we're going to have to draft up a decision and vote on it so you're not gonna get and we need a new site plan without the parking spaces correct so you're not going to get that until the next meeting no matter what okay um yeah it probably makes sense to Simply at the end of this today continue it on to the next meeting even if it's just for uh submitting the new site plan and getting past that time frame hopefully and then you know we could presumably um close it and vote on it at the next one I think you know if we can get that decision done in the time frame um okay yeah that makes I think that makes makes just to have that in mind um but let's so let's I mean we're going to go under the presumption that that new bylaw is in effect [Music] um so as I'm going through this [Music] um I mean I guess the question I have right is and I don't know how far Randy can go back but right like you've gone back to 2 like in two in 200 18 the bill issued in October had zero usage right so for that prior six months there was no one um and then there is some usage over that winter um and then there's a slight amount of usage in you know over the next four months looks like and then it's down basically to nothing um I mean I I guess I just you know I mean the the burden is on the applicant right to show that um it's been abandon for a period less than 10 years right that will fall into that correct so less than 10 years so the special permit is required when it's yeah between three and 10 so if it was under three years it would be site plan review based on the way the bylaws but between three and 10 it's a special her and so I mean I guess I just a winter of some I I I don't know I guess I'm that's where I'm trying to figure out whether three years I mean from right now three years would be August of 21 well I mean I think I'm willing to give some um benefit of the doubt I mean though I don't think that's necessarily true I don't think it's that linear I mean I think you if if in the 80s or 90s this was abandoned for more than 10 years I think that stops the talk right but I mean I it's I'm not sure we can ever figure that out so I think realistically you're probably just going back like that but but then I also just the fact that someone happened to be there um I something was being used I don't see any evidence of there being any necessarily a resident there of uh payment of that in 18 there was um that's where the the notice of violations from the of Health um they go back to 2018 where the residents whoever was living there filed complaints with the Board of Health for certain things that were wrong with the for the building how do we know that the resident filed it I guess oh you know what I take that all right so we can all right I see it I didn't catch that before in the notice of violation as a result of a tenant complaint okay that's 82 okay all right that makes sense to me I just again I just it's not that I think this is a good use for this I just don't necessarily want to sort of you know change the bylaw and then sort of close our eyes to any you know thing that gets us within that um it makes it um any you know anybody can come in so that's all I want to actually mean something um okay so then parking spots anything else about the site plan that the board has questions or contacts on what about the setic has it been looked at to make sure it's upsized to continue for unit um so I think we would probably construct a septic system for any new building or any construction of that a new septic system because we wouldn't try to utilize the existing because you know unless it was built since Title 5 for a four unit for unit do we have a multif family separate sub requirement or do that not apply within a apartment building is that just a two I think that's the distinction okay very I didn't want to set you up for failure be like there's no room for four different system all right so you're I mean essentially acknowledging that if there's there's a condition on it that's going to require you know new absolutely yeah that makes and your plan is probably to put in entirely system in there yeah probably okay all right any other um questions or comments from the board okay um any uh Town officials have any questions or comments I'll throw a few if that's s um so we did receive uh non- comments from DPW um fire department and the police department U police and fire both observed that the existing access served the existing facility I pr have safety concerns about some sight distance both directions uh and DPW had no new comments the only comment they had uh from last fall was related to if you will D the water usage in the time frame related to the previous 185 28 um I'll share that I think what uh is sought is a special permit um with findings for both the structure and the use uh in this District this is our 40 Zone um so we are working slightly beyond the existing footprint um since the structure special permit and then of course the four family use in this District we're looking for the uh if the use spe permit related to that um believe you'll pardon my timing as I've been out of the office but I shared or re-shared if you will my November I think it was November uh comments uh from previously which related to some items that Mrs Thornton uh brought up uh I don't recall the Arc of the public hearing got very conversational real early when we when it was made a parent I think we got brick wall let's talk about do that laps um but I honestly don't recall if Rob ever shared or you ever shared um any further information about architecturals um I don't think I go into great deal in my prior comment letter but just wanted to share that if something uh is available to form as the basis of the board's decision that'd be helpful yeah um we don't have any artion at the moment but um maybe conceptual would make sense to get something or as a condition come back with an architectural plan of the proposed building something along those lines I think you know an architectural plan would make absolute sense um just how to get it in front of the board or when get and what's going to be the scope of the renovation or is it going to be complete yeah so I think the intent at this point is to just a new just entirely new entirely not any part of it being kep correct if there's any historical processes that need to happen to get to there we're fully willing to uh go through that process okay um same footprint generally the same location um the yeah I don't mean on the same Foundation OB not the same foundation so it's generally the same footprint okay a little bit um outside of it just to kind of square it off really there's some bum M and things yeah on the existing build with an entire Foundation okay um anything else okay uh any public comments stop that doesn't fall on you di right it does not it'll be a condition yeah but it'll be you know they'll need approval from yeah um any other public comments okay um yeah so I mean I think you have your marching orders for what to submit for the next hearing the next one is on the next schedule meeting is on September 10th um is that something that you know whatever you need to get done before then is perfectly capable of getting it done before then wellc of site plan are well within that time frame architecturals I'm not sure but you know the board is open putting a condition if we don't have them by then just come back with the architecturals before anything happens because I think there might be a historical component to that as well all right we can figure out if there's I mean do your best if you can get something to us but if not then we can try to just raise the issue as early as you can with John so that we can kind of start to think about language and how if it all we can condition um we also want to see like if you're totally changing at where the exterior doors are going to be because that's going to matter for sidewalk and stuff like that so um okay um and then obviously like you said I think it makes sense to take it out anyways to get past that deadline if there is you know I don't know the answer so we'll try to figure that out in the meantime um and we can um go from there um all right so do I hear a motion to continue this public hearing to um 7:15 there's nothing else on right okay 7:15 on um September 10th d s second roll call vity I and I all right thank you have a good night thank you which one 14 um is there anybody here for the sign anybody here for either the sign permits at 141 congan or 18 Hudson Drive all right so we can put we can put those on um SL plan review for 220 sheep pesture Road I have no new information okay anybody here for that's the one where they're trying to figure out something with the of the neighbor right certain okay so we'll just H that off to the next meeting um all right so why don't we get to the decision on Oak that seems to be the biggest thing and get through that we can come back to the [Music] find the audience anything speciic huh I keep the audience anything yeah no that's the other thing is anybody here for anything specific besides those things that we just mentioned no not anything I guess it's not okay what were you hear for um I two late's going to be coming up pretty soon and it's a house that was already torn down over a year ago as just best is on it the state was in there last week the board of appeals these guys to build a three story twostory house one car garage M within 12 ft of the property line which is 3 ft to my bedroom window now and my air conditioner and it just it just doesn't fit I don't think it's going to end up in front of us if it's out if the use is existing then there isn't the house was torn down it's gone I got just trying to tell me that their drawing says it's 16 ft from the property line and they said Google said 14 ft and you look at your Gia site your own picture from your assessor the houses are built 30 ft apart what's the uh address again I'm sorry sir two Lakemont street I'm on 10 to Lakemont yes yes sir it's really bad they they can't do that and is that that's an R20 Zone do you know R don't I don't remember that's okay that's fine if you don't it's already something it's got to be R20 it's it's point2 of an not even Aces and so um I'm scared I don't want to move to my house and I don't want to die in there in car yeah so I I suspect that it's not gonna I mean you can keep a look at our agenda I suspect that it's not going to end up on our agenda only because um in the R20 Zone it's a residential use and they're just continuing the residential use and so they don't have to come to us well that's what the board of appeals told me it's got to go to you guys now because they didn't even file for the special permits even for the non-conforming lot nothing was done nothing was filed to tear down the house nothing was filed to build to rebuild or new construction or to build on that site it just all disappeared so they said the next step for those guys is to come here so I wasn't sure it was going to get slipped in on the planning board so I can't hear tonight because it's been just there 20 days now he's 10 so I'm scared very scared all right so um very very let's do this um I don't want to you know you don't have to sit through all tonight it's not on tonight why don't you um we can make us yeah grab John will grab your information oh thank you I don't I'm not really get put back in it's been torn down and it's nonconforming yeah an empty light now said they told T down but what did they the question is what did they get from the board of appeals because we can't control what the board I'm not sure it's coming to us but I don't know what the B deals so I think we just had need to I'm not sure the field setback or whatever right it's it's a residential use on a residential Zone and no it's no longer non-conforming because it'sing the given them but it's something we can certainly look into more for all right um everybody have a chance to go through [Music] the um the decision if you want to take a quick look through it now I mean it's not rocket science this one is pretty similar to others we can go through it and make sure it has all the conditions that we need what they should do take a few minutes to kind of go through it and then we'll kind of run through it on the [Music] screen the other thing to keep it you know obviously is the waivers um make sure you're comfortable with all the waav that's going to be on there um conditions are page so you know I was just thinking the um because we've been talking so much about what the number is exactly for this decision especially um on page six that section c that we talk about um the allowing for structures or buildings to be built but but only can it cannot exceed 5% coverage can we just put that number there can we like do the math and put the actual number in there so that in 10 years when from the HOA maybe comes and says hey we want to put up a gazebo Dear Mr planner whoever you may be at that time what exactly is 5% of in what number of the of what right I is that cool that good evening future planning board all right P future planning board a GI from Jessica we're the math ahead of time I'll be retire me that's right we'll have to visit you somewhere and ask bring up the decision so that address mean we did do a meeting person view Okay g me hang around here make sure we do this tonight make sure we do it right there's a few questions that me and S wanted to kind of you know talk about something that John was the the three months construction of attention ponds stor water ponds uh prior after this meeting or approval that we wanted to extend to at least nine because of the weather going to the fall right now the winter and first for sh we have to do we the cost and that's going to take some time the weather I think we'll be able to go to the frame so that's one number one that we want to push it to 9 months or maybe 12 months because the ideal time for us to work there with the weap crossing will be like in May the summer is the Dr season versus right now we're in September but going pro October we're going to have a rainy season going to be M there we're going to create more problems uh that's number one we extend that and also uh the full construction of the full face construction of the subdivision from five years maybe take it to the seven years just in case that could of course give us more flexibility in time um we'll get it started to it but like you know KN that that property I think it's going to be wise for us to start in the process of f or because first it has to be cross in order for us to get to the area we going start storm one cross him is ideal to do it inov that's my I told that to Terry this morning I read notes that I read notes just those two I think if we can address them put them there I think we'll be you guys Terry also online here you know he with me makes sense Terry what do you think Terry was there anything you wanted to add yeah I mean uh no I I think you know just want to make sure that not creating a something that can't meet you know um it's a tricky site spring you know we don't know what's happening with the you know the weather these days um so you know he's it's going to be you know time to get in there first of all and as he says um the the the storm water will have to come quickly as the road gets developed he's going to have to start we're going to have to start with that Basin and then you know the storm water is going to have to get connected pretty quickly after that um but gotta he's got to develop the access first and that's going to take a little time and then also you know getting a Construction Group mobilized may take a little time too because we're in the midst of High construction season so I'm not sure how soon somebody will be able to even start okay all right we'll consider those as we're going along here and um all right you have that up first page here fill in the um the two blanks so yes we have three um extension letters that and then the final dat of the plan is August 19 um I just scroll down so you have the whole procedural history or at least yeah anything um that needs to be changed um on page one want to remove Diane she's not here for cl and believe she may might have missed another one is she this best yeah we should be going to the next meeting uh next put position so so we we'll have to interview and V at the next I don't know they okay I don't know um so I think I sorry the only thing I was running through my head John is we should put in something about the site visit or not um suppose we don't necessarily need to do that we haven't done that house so um oh uh so General findings let's start there anything with the general findings um that anybody wishes to change or correct I didn't have a time to review this whole thing I was on S all day and I just got this about 3:00 p.m so I just went through highlighted areas and the ones that actually came out to my attention talk to about the dates I look closer to yeah the dates are usually pretty we're usually pretty good with those States you guys are flexible I just want to you can you know you can you um all right so General findings anybody have anything okay definitive plan findings uh one through four um what we got to fill in that um what was the final number on that plan oh I listen very carefully uh ter you have it right number 10.52 is open space I don't That's not including the though cor your email said 12 something yeah I've got Steve reported to me that it gives 10.02 Acres of open space 10.02 that's what he's got with the Basin not included believe That's not including the basins I think he took those out he's got 3.73 oh there from water one 1.3 for storm water 2 and five acres for lot four all right so that sorry [Music] was that John what you see on it on the latest one as we work our way through I'll be happy to okay just conf we'll confirm that and make that's right um all right anything else on definitive plan findings one4 oh uh waivers um I guess let's start with the first one here everybody okay with this yep okay oops Yeah there you go [Music] um everybody okay with ler number two yes waiver number three with that yes [Music] um well here's the only issue with number um I don't like prior to the issuance of any building permits because it creates a problem which is what happened over at the greens and I'm not sure it ever got corrected [Music] um is that property gets sold Deeds are created and filed with the registry and there is no reference in the deed to easements covenants restrictions what have you right that's the problem I I don't think it's it doesn't have to be I I have no problem waving a requirement that it's submitted with the application but I think that the tying it has to be to the issuance uh or to the um execution of any Deeds it has to be approved before that so that it can then be it has to be approved and file with the um register Deeds so that it can be included in any Deeds for the properties I I think that becomes the issue and I think that played out over the greens so um I would just change that to the prior to the um I would I would do a this job and you are sing I think in sort of a lot um maybe put allow and require PRI to the conveyance of any individ okay um just here do you understand what I'm yes understand we don't have the Covenant Le the conditions from that's fine but that whenever you con whenever you sell an actual lot in that deed will have to be referenced to already recorded cover and restrictions correct so those have to be approved by the planning board and file with the registry before you convey any lot correct um the construction phase of a subdivision is Con on us obtaining those Covenant or we can do that after thr out the as far as the infrastructure um and you can do whatever you want there well I shouldn't say that you can do all the work without conveying individual Lots it's it's you can't convey a lot until you have these approved and filed with the registry um because that's the only way to make the individual lot holders subject to the but if the lot doesn't have any like e on it but just the Covenant will just correct they have to be tied to the de too so we'll draw that up of course before or yeah yeah yeah there's going to be plenty of time before you're conveying RS so yeah to your disappointment but I mean it won't be um okay so that's all set um number four um any issue with number four okay number five I had a question on five well you know the theol in side lock account um you know I don't have the numbers for much of this what is what are we talking that are not buil on both sides yeah so what uh the way it plays out in the bylaws is um um it's a discussion to be had I think basically discussion to be had with Randy Brown right um with DPW uh as far as sort of valuing um you know the sidewalk that is being taken out um and there's a fund that's used for so how much were looking at that's what the question before we start oh is it in there yeah oh I don't remember seeing it that's when is it where is it what page p s okay breaks Down's oh that's good fig okay which one is it uh letter M so it's $60 per linear foot St I think I have to look at what would the town have to pay someone to install it money probably isn't that much I don't I couldn't tell you specifically I retract my that's a lot phot that could like $40,000 I forget how long [Music] your I mean I don't mind well I mean you don't have aite that has TR subdivision is not correct but you you're required under the bylaws to sidewalks on both sides and so uh the way the B structured is if you are granted a waiver to allow only one side then sort of the cost of the other ones goes into this revolving fund which allows for repair and maintenance of um you know other sidewalks and towns so not the figure we used before too I think no this uh it gets adjusted roughly every year I I mean I don't um when is that put is there a time frame when the deposit gets put in for the prior to the issuance of any building from I mean I'm not necessarily in my mind committed to putting in a number into this I'm more than take it out or pay for per building permit frage of the lot that doesn't have aign instead of paying for the whole thing that would be a thing better yeah I I'm not inclined to that but I am not necessarily because there's going to be a period of time that passes before any building permits are issued I'm not necessarily you know I think I'm willing to not put in a number into this because that could change I I'm I'm willing to give Randy the discretion to figure it out I mean I don't might figure it's more I agree I don't disagree think that's more of a risk I think letting us put the number in I leave that up I mean it could be it could be higher right but I think it is I am I am willing to leave that number out and let you and Randy hash it out but at the end of the day what he says is going to be what the number is right so um um I sort of Leave it to you as to whether you want me to put the number in that he's given us now um or whether you want to just leave it out so that there's not a set number and negotiate with him with the idea that I could go higher right um could also go lower but and then where where is the holding to I'll talk that we've never put in a number we've never had that number into a decision to my knowledge I could be wrong on that because John's giv me a weird I don't remember seeing $60 I tried to editorialize too much in a I don't remember seeing an actual number in a decision before gonna pull up the green Z decision earlier might that up right here I've always remembered just leaving it to Randy to figure out that number and being perfectly comfortable with that like we has had problems in the past with people to negotiate three years into a development and that's you should put it in the in the writings well for The Greens West one point for Mr go already oh good at least on that page I'm not going to look through theti I look at the same um W was the first one or second one West was first well there chance it might be in the East but I'm guessing it probably is the same as the West for the most part for [Music] um and I promise I had nothing to do with Noble seats so I don't know whether it's or not nothing to do with me um or anybody on this board before me but not um okay [Music] all right so we'll get to that in the conditions uh when we come to that so but um well he kind of has to decide whether he wants us to put in a waiver no matter how we were it money or not or do you want to to put in your own sidewalks well I'll talk with my Engineers tomorrow and randis who you know what the number actual means does it have to be paid up front before we start or does it going to be taken from each building which I think be well we'll talk about again but I mean here's you know I I guess in my mind right if this gets issued with a waiver of the sidewalk on one side or you know however the existing s plan is right now if down the line you decided listen it makes more sense for me to put sidewalk in on both sides I'm not sure I consider that anything more than a minor modification of lot is linear foot lot the front because that's what minimum lot is and it's $60 per foot that's $12,000 bot I mean that's kind of so I again I I I don't mind you trying to figure that out with Randy I mean ry's a pretty reasonable guy why I want to talk to them tomorrow yep so here's what i' say is I think it makes sense to sort of leave it the way it is because we already have the site plan the way it is we'll put in the waiver we'll take out that number um if you know you come up with a number with Randy and it makes sense great if you say it makes more sense for me to put in sidewalks on both sides all you have to do is submit a a new site plan which shows that and it's a monor modification I think in my mind um to what this is and we can vote on that at a later date okay very good um all right um so that's five so six okay where we need um anybody have an issue with six okay all right now um conditions what do we got up there one or a through b how about a b how about a through C there you go oh for a it's not a set number so you end up submitting uh to Randy Brown your schedule costs for a given phase back John back up for just the beginning of that sure yeah the following condition should be conditions of approval uh on the okay that's fine success yeah no that's fine okay um anything with a b or uh C and I assume the highlighting it's just simply to call attention to particular plac Bry Brown was kind to take a walk through as we try to do better right uh so under a those last two settings added to anybody anybody read something prior to well now those are new the idea is to try to provide that opportunity to revisit the value uh under our subdivision regulations only if it's secured through a bond or Bank passport some some Financial tool of that of that manner uh do we have that every twoe revisiting and planning board's ability to change or increase the value of the security a lot of covenants from L Bond and granted we're talking about okay you know tracking the value of property versus construction costs uh it's not up in the same fashion so the ability for the planning board to take a look at this while not relieving any of the obligations for infrastructure improvements or sidest stepping that obligation should the security be to a performance fond that's why wored that way all right um Jessica you wanted tock change at the end that 5% coverage of such open space or Management areas in this application is 21824 s feet 0501 acres to square footage 21 I'm s 21824 thank you all right uh you want to just scroll down to D and E John and we can kind of oh can streets we have street lights at intersections proposed originally there was a waiver submitted and then Steve was like guess we're not doing that but is that what's in the bylaw I I will double check while we're going through this process I believe say they shall be requir not any okay go through that withing hill and wanted any want to do it I was like no you're going to put a street light there what the bylaw said I want to make sure we weren't the bylaw wasn't broader than that okay um is it all there no no the the details of it but what's required is there so I don't remember that oh I think that that is that's been the r with what I at least as I entered into this role and observed how lots are submitted building department and signed out for we call dimensional conformance and and so on so forth I didn't quite align with all this tight on with for sure um as a conventional subdivision I'm not sure to what degree this requirement applies I'm not convinced of necessity versus the theoretical FD where you have clustered homes and you have a greater sensitivity soci whereas there's a tremendous amount of opportunity for sighting given the size of these Lots okay yeah I don't remember this maybe I dis missed it or skipped over it because it was a whole bunch of stuff when I read it I don't remember this detail being in the prior ones I'm sure it probably was I do remember I remember them being issued requiring it being reviewed by the planning board because it really realistically was just from by you right um practice um so I think that was going to be a topic for discussion about whether how to structure this this realistically every lot is not coming in front of the plan for good so again the building department appr them mean I still think I would want it in even on a conventional [Music] um I think I'm is letting it be approved by the town planner and and buildor I don't think it needs so that you're not for the next meeting to get a every site I don't think we need that so I think it should be submitted to easy enough to just you got to bring building to get the permit anyways show it to the Battalion planner and let them look at it just so that there's two eyes on it um but so that we have the planning Viewpoint and the building effed Viewpoint um but I think if we change that that that I'll throw out another idea I'm not trying to throw curve balls but I recognize that uh a statement in here is a tough one performance of the asbook Mion the Cru side plan will be a condition of the issuance of a certificate of the occupancy so for what it's worth our current building permit process for example doesn't Circle back around to my desk at for close outes so we've looked at a couple um recent meetings where I I've got a s plan submitted and here the cic and whatever else but that's been the extent of contact with that process so to be fair I'll bet if I if we looked at how all of the flexible residential or any subdivision Lots constructed in the past five years maybe the one that required a variance Over The Greens West would satisfy that condition that probably wasn't prior to ctive occup so all I'm observing is that um there's a certain burden there that is I don't know if it's necessarily onerous but it certainly isn't subject follow through in their current practices is the belly D I'm not gonna reality of the of the situation an as an as buil for single family residence that doesn't uh have an issue say with proximity to Wetlands or is you know subject to a variance or health of very tight tolerances that's where at least in my personal experience I've seen it look wi so there is a certain burden that appears to be a little atypical in terms of that um in the endat who wants to own it well I mean the reality is is I'm looking through this list right and you know but at some point a site plan that has the building location the septic location all that whether it's on one or separate ones is coming into the time right health is getting plan and the location and all that kind of we're getting um the location on the I mean I guess I don't know whether it's in the building department or assessors or whoever but at some point the plan that shows the location I could build it isn't passive that is correct um if you have any explanation that I'm watering things down then no I want to I mean part of this is trying to make sure that because as I've said I do want to go through this chapter again as well as the other appable wants to development and really go through them and make sure that they are actually up you know updated and practical and kind so to the extent we can kind of tweak this as we're going along in the actual condition I think it makes sense um um but I mean if we run out the process right the billing insector needs to look at the A C before they issue a building F right so that needs to happen whether you do it or not suppose we we do it in conjunction okay I'm sure he's looking at the the foundation uh for the concrete so where it says planning board and the second line it probably should be changed to building inspector and tax right um next sentence about what it includes seems perfectly fine to me because all that stuff again pretty much has to be submitted anyways to some degree to a town department is that fair yes you put an as applicable in there if be and that's fine I I think we could put that in there too um some of that you're right it's not going to be so the next line confirmation of the asil conditions with the approved s plan would be a condition of issuance I mean in my mind whether that actually comes to fruition or not I still think it should be in there m so that if there's an issue you can turn to a document and say there's an issue right whether in reality that sure there is some protection reported by that that's why I don't want to water it down that's your ination okay all right I mean I think that should be in there and then you know there are going to be time considerations and workload I think it could be in there um turn to it new okay thank you for entertaining any um anything any comments from the board about that all right H through whatever that on and an from calculated to the end of the sentence I have some language from other you like to see or hear that it won't be from Magnolia ter very similar um how about start talking in so prior a period aftering account the next sentence reads this amount will be based on the projected cost of installation of the sidewalk not inst applicant shall deposit said amount prior to the issuance of any building permits this por get we ped that much or just the calcul I think just okay I mean I think that we put in what it based on I mean I'm not sure that that's disputed right I that's part of the pine um not sure choices um okay did you just inite what I just read out loud you you're doing great where's that money go fix other side what fix the other side I hope oh right I mean like I think dep Square forance probably checks de right did fair enough um uh anything else on this page how many well there's any number of systems that add up to the minimum gallon M required okay no fine I mean it could be one could it be one it could be one I think the argument is that it's going to be a real expensive single so put the s in parenthesis right okay yeah okay um uh and then down at the second last the second to last line got example CS then well I gu you have sister and dry hydrid system we'll find way at I'm [Music] um yeah away with 100t diameter [Music] TR any area on check on anybody have anything for Q good okay r w RB fire sisters I was proud saw one before it was already it didn't last long [Music] lot 6 17 and 18 are what the interior storm water parel access i l 17 18 are where the strs and okay oh you um stick around no you are welcome to we're going through as quickly as question um I just we got to figure out where to put in did you get the language from that other one about the um delineating where the access to the open space you wish to hear the Green West language yeah which about when you are selling that lot you should definitely make sure that homeowner knows that that exists right there think that lot is not going to be sold for a while it may very well be your lot but who Whoever has it it was an issue at the greens where they showed up and said what the hell's going on and so just so you know no 100% I mean that's understandable is going to be on the plan it's going to be shown it's going to be deed the question is who's going to pay taxes on the open space yeah open space is the HOA responsibility the homeowner is not GNA pay own doesn't own that part that's that's deed to the ho to the HOA so that's you know but again it's just it's more people don't look at deeds and and planning board decisions so you know just as a do it's come up before I would make sure if that gets sold when it gets sold you're letting them know that there's a trail that runs alongside their property it's going to be delineated that's well thank you for your time to keep going the rest of the questions look good I mean Terry we want just a few want time watch than what was the language in the a 10 foot wide Stone pathway from the sidewalk to the open space where were divided the access eement maintained by the homeowners association didn't take can change it got Chang change to the you're coming down on me yeah every 50 Fe right something like that yeah listen you're coming down I can't believe back oh man um to be fair I didn't know it now until you said I knew that it was the 50 Feet alternating Boulder it didn't occur to me that that got changed until you just yeah um but that is but wasn't there any something right in the beginning to bers at each side or something or like to start we wanted a marble we settle for the rock a 10 foot wide grass pathway I can't believe you're a 10 foot wide grass pathway sidewalk to open space said pathway will be delineated by 24 to 36 in diameter Stone Boulders set at 50ft intervals at a 10t width running the entire west side of that lot starting within 5T of the sidewalk with Boulders within 5 feet of the end of the B okay so that block that cut and P that language into this decision and then let's play around with it because it's not going to be the same but um I think the beginning Deja beginning of the path has to happen Boulders you have to go a certain distance that is marked up with the boulders and then I'm fin bling I think be like a DI [Music] diagram you know like a wooden type sign typ of thing so so preser whatever some sort of diagram we say okay you can walk this here you go 150 ft back and then it opens up to more space oh how do you know it's going talking you're not inviting thecr the to be there but as we were as we learned with all the hunting issues right that is the property that is the neighboring property owners's responsibility is to put up signs to delineate where their property ra um P um on the problems as to why this is a problematic issue putting press passw Travers second so I mean I don't I I think it just here's here's and here's the other part of is is I'm not naive enough to think that this is necessarily going to play out like this I think it's just you give it the best shot from Jump Street and hopefully it takes it's own it takes own life yeah and it and it becomes trails that people use I think that would be useful but all we can do I think is at least give it its best shot from the beginning and then put something into a decision that would allow a homeowner association if they chose to do so to perpetuate it andc you know whoever and and maintain it right so at least it exists it can be maintained if the group decides they want to maintain it that's I think the best you can do you can't you know that's Public Access anybody tell right no think so res we' had that come up before came up in uh Greens Greens should fall back yeah we you know mashed this all out with the greens [Music] um all right is this a new you just put a new paragraph w a new W so it's got to be 20 foot wide right question question I think that's already on that yeah I'm gonna blame you for the meeting going long you payback I love it Mike you show such growth are you sure you want that grassed walkway to be 20 feet wide I didn't think that wide that's pretty hard it is a well it's grass Terry so I mean I think the idea is that it's right and that was well let me just say this right so that um as you probably just heard John say the um originally in the greens it was a stone pth that went up and over um and the push back was I mean I'm sure there's I can't remember but I'm sure there's push back on cost but there was also push back on it sort of between two properties and sort of allow it to be you know not as to sort of blend in with the properties and not just be this Stone path that runs along um it got changed to grass so it it you know in reality probably gets maintained in large part by one of those neighbors um you know just mowing so it wasn't intended to be necessarily I mean I it can sort of be natural I just um because you want you want you don't want them taking trees down for the whole thing and because it's a grass walkway right yeah no no no no and let's be clear I mean I'm thinking of the first part of it right and not necessarily as you go along um and we'll delineate that this is different than what the greens were the greens was a not not this Mike they should would would it make more sense just to say it's a grass walkway pathway that is delineated every 50 feet by Boulders and let them decide the width or or a minimum width of X you know because I think if you say a 20 foot wide grass pathway it suggests that that just gets cleared completely I don't think that's your intent no no yeah and to be fair I mean I think I was just had in my head what the width of that area is right um right I mean it 12 what's his table I say 14 me I suppose it doesn't matter all that much because it's just an open space uh but I mean the reality is if you cut it down to anything less than 20 you're basically giving more land to one of those neers I see what you're saying maybe maybe maybe you want to have maybe you want to have them put the stone at at the along the leg boundaries to identify the boundary and they grass pathway within it somewhere yeah I don't mind that I I like the actual like walking path does not have to be 20 ft wide by any stretch of the imagination I just think delineating the boundaries of that parcel is probably useful because then otherwise people I agree I think that's a good way to do it you could do that for the the thin the 20 foot leg um and really clearly DeMark where that is with the boulders it's a simple way to do it how far down now you got you got the spot in the front there where it comes to the end of the first property to the right of the strp and then you got another 749 fet after that to get to where the 5 Acres actually opens up what are you gonna clear a path down that down the center of this 20 foot aisle well it's a lot of it's already been cleared um so you know it's yeah they would need to clear a a walkway through there yeah and I you know I mean I think Terry what you have suggested which I think is I mean it's certainly not a permanent solution but it seems like it's not going to be a heck of a lot of work given the amount of um you know wood chipping that is going to be going on there that if you just put wood chips down in that you know at least the beginning of it um at least as an initial matter is probably a a good way to delineate that as well it'll eventually turn the grass anyway turn to turn to dirt yeah but um but I think if that is a pretty you know low cost easy solution given what is going on on that property as a as an initial way to mark it again that's my biggest thing is let's try to get it marked out initially and then hopefully that takes on use and then it becomes maintained by the people who are there the first thing that's going to pop through a woodchip base is going be something bickery more than likely something with a stout stem grass isn't going to be the first thing that comes through a woodchip yeah it's going to be something that's going to be a pain in the but to walk but there should be you know the the first section if you want to totally coat it over that's fine but there should be a path cut all the way down that that 750 ft and let that turn the grass it's three three paths with a mower and you're done um if they want to take care of from time to time uh but they should remove the trees from the that path way going down that's a long walk right then I would I would say that you want to require a specific minimum width for the pathway to be that needs 10 foot strict down the middle of that that 20 foot easement is more than enough you know it'll eventually just turn to a walking trap but at least give it a good start that's fine that's fine that makes sense to me any logistical push back from that Terry from your knowledge of the site no I I think you know maybe it'll weave around a little bit you know but you know if there's a tree or something but um you know decent tree that they want to avoid but I think I think demarque the the property line for till you get to the trees you know that 700 feet 750 ft demarcating every 50 feet of that of the property line itself I think will go a long ways little signs up and say you're 50 feet in you're 20 feet away from being be [Laughter] Hood there are a number of deer s you are being watch this point by Mother Nature half you Bears up your so it's not said pathway though is it the side and I just theed on last we've got two [Music] shall I share the time and then lot four is the one in the back what about lot [Music] 30 I where's am I is that the right one larger 17 and 18 the other one doesn't require any access to another L we you probably talk about we have it that's do [Music] myself all right here's what I'd say after Lot 4 just hit return a couple times and we will um that's fine we will throw and change X that's not we act um no just just get rid of the AC yeah I got you he's trying he's trying all right so a 10 foot wide ground PA way from the sidewalk sort Street to the open space just change the open space um will be provided at the access to the open space on the southerly side of Lot 4 so that's that enter that strip of land that runs along that's correct okay um so the 10 foot wide grass pathway will run for what length 749 ft do you get to the to the edge of the where square is open to the big part okay so the 10 foot wide bre will be provided the access to run you know you can write to run 740 749 Fe you got that down was on the plan okay um so after lock between a four and a period right [Music] um what I shared it's exciting stretch there just a grass path this way the quads get so 796 before they get a treeing 79 plus 796 approximately 796 ft to the how many times can I say open space in the same sentence no I mean to the oh to the rear line of four there you go this is why it was so much easier like in the 1800s right for the Stone marker at the Smith property large um okay you you do that Mike and this way he those quads get a running start before they hit the first tree that be good yeah right down that straight it's a good straight run and then okay so the next sentence will be um the try the boundaries of the open space access strip guess we'll call it um 25 years ago and then you can put that down below says will be delineated you you can cut that into there brush back you don't have to put that last part at 20 that after eight down there whatever the end no I think it might path butt of the end no yes yes okay that make sense yeah I we good with that all right so that takes care of that we need to then talk about lot six and lot I think it's 13 but I could be wrong whatever the one is on the bottom right hand side of the plan that's how I oriented myself 1718 no it's not 178 that's 13 no 27 28 55 where's there go 27 okay access will be right wait side Western I'm sorry were you asking me something no we're good boundary of okay um so lot four is the other one no I'm sorry but I on south of is where the other one is yes right squished no no I'm sash so much Nic guy okay all right so then the next sentence will be what um so how are we delting how are we delineating the other uh well there's one that's no real pth per se right just walk off the street and there are right I don't know what we should do but what was that the two other Open Spaces remember we got people done this where the basins are how do you want to delineate any access to those if at all one's got a path there like an access right which you can do the same basic things here the open space about by more finding I don't think there's any need to fine be careful I mean it would be up to the law owners of 28 and 27 if they want to put something well they're not allowed for this open space that's owned by the homeowner association but I mean on their lot like if they to put to they really would so that they sto mowing is going to be the no but I think so the way I I 27 28 come down there is a tree line right there between their property and the open space already okay already and so I suspect that's going to just stay a tree line right and so the open space is going to be it's sort of like a field right now yeah um I mean the access to storm water basin two open space there I mean yeah so that's fine I mean I I I'm more concerned about the one in the back so I don't know if anybody care about the other two and have access care about he wants to put firewalks every time he shows a lot yeah not that's not the way it's no aren sold it's a lot so techically have do a side one well I mean it doesn't matter it's not happening so I'm not I can't even get my head around however it play out but yeah no it's not happening um I mean the only thing I was thinking is potentially you could Divi Define it by B right um right so that you'd only have to pay in the sidewalk that's not being installed for phase one and then pay in phase two then pay in phase three didn't pay in phase four but I still think you really we already do some sort of security for each phase it isre so I I think that that has to be all right so I think we just leave the rest of it out okay I think you can erase that stuff on the bottom and just go straight whoops well they already had the sidewalks going around the outer band of all roads including all the both sides of each cuac so it's just that inner curve that he's going to be missing not bad huge um this in their [Music] horseshoe all right um anything with XY and Z well we can talk about the Z time frame right well and I'm looking at the screen I'm looking at the screen why on your paper I don't have it why does my paper I don't know why it's on paper dat I'm looking for Z got into the we hit The Who on first much to early for that that's an after 10 o' kind of um all right any issue with the first two on the page second two on the page I guess no okay um well yeah um the last one wait where was he talking about the thing about that I was talking about six months we've got water stor stor water yes stor water and then this one try to set forth an expectation deadline for infrastructure you can come back and request an extension but this at least since mil yeah I mean I think explain that to him but I do think especially this one this is the other one when we get to it we can talk about it right because I I appreciate that there's seasonal issues at play there that's fine we can talk about that we get this one I think we leave it because especially with the concessions on the called theack M issue that you know like the whole turn around whatever turn around thing I think leave it at this and let him come back with if he want extended that's fine but convey that and if you haven't already that he you know if you needed come back with justification extended I don't have a problem sh you were able to hear that yeah can you just add that he just needs to request an extension is clear um yeah I mean he I think it says I mean it's I guess implied where it says unless Modified by the planning board right so he has the right to come back and request the modification of the permit um right right so um and at that point in time we will take a look and say okay are we still just on phase one or does he need just an extra half a year or a year to button everything up completed and we'll evaluate he needs he's saying he needs seven years and that's fine this is meant to be just a a a it's meant to be a checkin point to to make sure on a in my mind at least I'm not speaking for everybody in my mind it's meant to be a checkin point on a project where we are letting him basically build a giant culdesac for the first three phases um make sure that stuff is moving along so that we are getting to the point where it is a conforming development right um that in my mind is this is sort of a the check on that um I don't have as Jessica said if in five years he's just moving on to say phase four okay that's fine right right come back and get years ago that's fine but if in five years he's still working on phase one then we really got to start having some discussions about the reality of having this SL called the sack in there that's the way I look at it no that's that's reasonable I mean at that point you're gonna have to decide if if you know you need to use Bond money to complete a section or whatever I mean the reality is is that if he's reasonably you know doing this in a reasonable fashion and and there's obviously in any project of this size going to be you know outside forces that you're not thinking about right now or that you're not expecting but if he's moving along reasonably the town has zero desire to come in and do it themselves I mean it just you know even if he's moving along okay they're they have zero desire to come in and take it over so uh you know we just had projects in the past area that have gotten way past the time frame for completion and now we're still trying to fix up the problems a decade and a half later so yep we don't want to get stuck with one big long C sack yeah I mean I just I don't see much potential downside I get that how it reads but the reality is is that if he needed more time I don't think the town would have any problem whatsoever even if none of us are still on this board I don't think there would be any issue with it whatsoever sure um and and as you know as just said I mean part of this is sort of our our consideration of recent events with other developments went before this and and just you know it may be a little bit more than what is necessary but as long as people are are being you know reasonable in the way they're going about it we generally don't have any problem with them doing it they modifying whatever needs to be modified um we've just had a couple that have blown up pretty decently so we want to make sure that we don't get into that again I can appreciate that um all right so we are all set with those are there any other conditions that uh needed to be added anything good okay all right um we can just quickly look at this this is pretty toilet plate right um okay so approval section then we can go on to the SW Water Management check section 4 a disposal [Music] was okay that was the thank you I like use l i I didn't it that was that was solely at the direction ofal an turny yeah any don't don't sell yourself short you should I I recall a few things about the Magnolia Terrace approval that might be hadn't LIF it I'm saying I can be an honest man um all right storm water management permit findings anybody have any issues with those 183 there a new section that's a new section ch let that one here I haven't spent any time looking at is the enforcement action and whether how this interacts with that right um was just hun on that down I mean I think it in large part probably makes that mood right um but I don't know the answer yeah I believe at this point he's addressed the requirements of the enforcement yeah as far as um Terry do you have a memory of what the requirements were in the enforcement action that he had to do uh mainly that he needed to file a storm water management permit um and and in doing so needed to um have a Swift prepared for the site you know an EPA Swip um and do the registration for that um he had some stabilization stuff that he had to address which I believe is all set um and he's been working with Randy on you know and making sure that he's up to speed on that so I'm pretty sure he's in compliance at the moment um I don't have that in front of me I can't tell you exactly what it is I have earlier track the Randy forcement is ging at the moment but that's generally correct the site visit Terry right uh the filing the M uh program and uh fing for the stone Water Management permit with asso mandated steps uh the site is generally stable now that's fair to say Terry with the exception of perhaps that that first entrance road which will you know that'll be a continuous issue so I was looking at this rather seeking that information for the enforcement as well uh Mr Dy only to look at adding the request and flexibility into that P frame uh if I recall the root of that suggested time frame the idea was to say maintain some pressure move to a point where we can start getting some of the construction through storm water controls in place but I don't see any issue with the site remaining as it is until a contractor selected and was able to Begin work right they have to just maintain erosion and whatever else standards that that you know throughout the construction so that's correct yeah that that's a requirement of the storm water management plan that that once he begins construction out there he's got to do weekly inspections of the erosion controls out there um and he'll have to he has to designate somebody that's going to actually do that um work as part of the Swift and so on so I can't imagine that any enforcement action is going to have um anything that is going to supersede or need to sort of continue on other than you know beyond what is going to be in here this will control the requirements were um to have a site visit out there with conservation DPW and planning um number two is to prepare the storm water pollution PL plan and file notice of a tent with EPA and three was submitting complete application for plans for the definitive subdivision so all right uh John where you where you go I'm sorry we'll move down to that no that's fine because one and two are are um standard yes yes okay so we can move on to that 3 through 10 um right so the one he brought off was six there um he talk me through it from a storm water management perspective right I mean me saying depends on how you def find work on a St water management system um but also I mean it seems like it does have a point of where in August and 90 days seems reasonably quick and takes you right into a period where you're probably not going to be do in the hell of a l yeah I mean you it depending on when he gets started you may not want to be tearing out all these big areas as we go into winter and so on to to start constructing storm water features because that that's going to be a big disturbance in itself it's tree clearing you know a lot of grubbing um and then you know actually trying to get things routed to it so um you know he's gonna going to come in and he's got to get that Wetland Crossing in first get the coverts in place head walls um then have an actual access to the site he'll start coming up the hill and laying in the road and he'll he'll need to get that base in and then um at that point then he can start moving over and clearing the trees and start building his Basin um start taking that stuff you know it's kind of a a I guess you could say he'll he'll start getting some in as he's as he builds the road but he's got to have a way to not flood the flood everything with sediment and end up in an uncontrollable situation so that n months and you would asked a somebody asked a question about security whether that overlap if you will with um the security FL of the subdivision as a whole maybe Randy just ask that question um as I see it I called out in number seven and as far as I can Envision the method of security for the subdivision infrastructure I think satisfies that um separate condition all sorry I thought those were your wordsy yeah all right I think that's it um and can you come back and just one last thing for the um just occurred to me with the um open space p did we talk about sort of insert or anything or just just making sure that the boulders have to stay there kind of thing right um let me I just want to look at the language one more time and make sure yeah it's well yeah that's fine okay all right back the storm water I think we're that yeah just F all right everybody [Music] good okay do I hear a y supposed to do that when somebody than the finish that sentence um I if you do all one shot be nice I can no NOP absolutely you're have so many votes here gonna be making motions we gonna run through order motion yeah I'm gonna go through an order so do I hear a motion to um weigh the requirement under chapter 315 12b that the definitive plan be prepared at a scale of 1 inals 4 he and allow it to be prepared at a scale of 1 in equals 60 p davea soe c second roll call vote Michel I Dave i d s and I Jessica Thor and I we wave the reading and just say more motion number one two and three and four um yeah I'm okay with that we've already good I hear a motion uh regarding waiver number two as included in this decision second uh roll call vote I I David I Jess and I um motion um to approve the waiver number three J take s second call v i i IID I I I hear a motion to approve waiver number four second call vot m [Music] i I hear a motion to approve waiver number five da second vote like I daa I David i j and I I hear a motion to approve waiver number six say second call v mity i i i i best part was you need me to you didn't answer yet that's btime all right do I hear a motion to um pose the conditions as contained in this written decision upon the approval of the defend plan Dave Spa so move second roll call vote Michel i davea i i David I just I do I hear a motion to approve the definitive plan BAS Bas on the uh including the conditions of approval um included here mov got second I I got I David S i j and I okay do I hear a motion to Grant the storm water management permit for this subdivision with the conditions said for and M second vote Michael I I do I hear a motion to um approve this written decision as amended here tonight second roll call vote Michael I da David J th I fantastic I like your shortening technique I would expect nothing L efficiency buddy efficiency all right what to do with thank you all have a good night have good night drive or is that just on our radar that that's it's on our radar I don't so uh I don't know I don't have to be dangerous I think it was uh referred to us but we received anything formal I don't have a copy of the request or anything else that's my understanding of it too was sort of talked about that's right here that's correct so uh on the look learning of that that's just there for explore a future day fantastic so all we have left is St comsy John anyon development development behind Big Y have street sign the development behind Big Y has no stre sign are you asking whether why I'm sure there is a reason I don't know what it might be didn't have sign at one point sign or am I just thinking about the street sign had construction sign but it nothing street sign it had like a white wooden like noble Ste Crossing didn't it it did I think I what happened to it but it disappeared let's just get the road paid first let's not worry yeah do paid the B the balance of self administ 57 stud us yeah didn't pay Camp [Music] from it will Beed I open Cent to do eight weeks now all right where are these pretty signs hold on have to judge whether this spel right do thankfully no okay get checked on in that's that teacher making red Lang no ma'am okay uh 18 Hudson d w Computing Associates Warehouse so we see theil office por up front they have two signs proposed we get that blue on the building not illuminated and let's see did we get a site loal for the we do don't go Ahad of me I get I'll get there the second one is a bit of a we call it oh it's a free-standing sign doesn't qualifies solely for directional this is u a 4 by8 time so we are below the 50 Foot threshold per side uh let's get back to the site location itself requirement for PR to be greater than 10 ft behind the right of white I will have to provide a um followup distinction I can zoom in on this um so we see the proposed sign before travel north of the entrance driveway so I'll make sure that they see the clarification that minimum back from the property otherwise they hit their marks for area Okay location right where to go go home uh do I what was the do I he a uh what do we do 18th this is 18 do I hear a motion for a positive recommendation for this proposed signs at 18 hson joh so move HS second Mich iina I David I Jess th I okay with me we'll get over to 141 KGAN right quick people the other day Fusion something which one you're talking about there's coffee canvas Cafe and fusion okay to the board members uh points we have have sign applications for the C in this Cafe and the fusion Bar and Grill these are nonilluminated aluminum signs black and white wall mounted uh because of the significant length in these buildings and the separate areas designated to ruse they meet the area requirements course I already up anyways they may be up I have not any wer waiting huh this a good time to tell them we want more color something to really sell the the town spirit and maybe some food and drink as well um all right do I hear a u motion for a positive recommendation for 141 thanks single second sing ey David just I all right planning board member and staff comments I sh letter thank you for reminding me I will share that uh after the meeting you you pass the test thank you all right we're good Mr suon I make a motion to close the meeting being second all those in favor say I to stay there bys now what were we supposed to say John you have a good night perfect timing 2%