okay all right good evening good evening everybody Welcome to tonight's meeting of the sparta Township planning board on behalf of the members of the entire planning board and our professionals we'd like to thank everyone that is here tonight as well as those who may be streaming the meeting either now or later on YouTube this meeting is now called to order for the record this meeting is being held on uh July 17th 2024 at disported township mun Municipal Building located at 65 Main Street Sparta New Jersey the time is now 7:02 the live stream for this meeting may be viewed on YouTube at www.youtube.com Sparta Township Capital Spa rtwp please note that adequate public meeting uh public notice of this meeting was given in accordance for the open public meetings act uh so I ask everyone please stand and join our board our professionals as we probably begin this meeting with a salute to our nation's flag I pledge ALG Ali to flag of the United States of America for it stands one nation indivisible with liy and justice for okay thank you everybody and Miss Fox could we get the roll call Justin Canalis here Ernie ragad here Christine Dunbar here Mike Sylvester here Vice chairman bill enri here chairman Rond day here deputy mayor Dean blumetti Joan Ferman here Janette Burke here Celeste Luciano here and Brian Zimmerman here okay um so we're going to uh jump right into uh the public hearings tonight so we initially had um three applications we were going to hear and I think uh dor you have an update on one yes um Lakeland Bank application PB number 24- 717 the public hearing has been carried to the August 7th meeting 7:00 p.m. at this meeting room here in the municipal building um it's carried without any new mail notices but with a new newspaper notice okay thank you for that all right um so the two the first that we'll be hearing is application uh pb2 24718 it's a minor site plan for a change in Tennessee and a new replacement sign the application was submitted by Thor Labs measurement systems and is proposed to be located at 15 Wilson Drive block one 20006 Lot 21 in the economic development zone so folks please feel free to come up and introduce yourselves and Mr Collins was where you in should we use the microphone yes please okay um good evening everyone uh my name is Peter Donnelly I'm an attorney at the law firm of Donnelly Minter and Kelly and I'm here on behalf of the applicant uh Thor Labs measurement systems and its parent company Thor Labs Inc um as Mr chairman said uh this is an application for a change of tency in industrial building and for uh changing the messaging on the sign we've noticed this hearing uh both by mail and publication actually technically we noticed for the June hearing but we were here in June and we had a announcement at the public Hearing in June to carry it today so we would not have to re notice um I have one witness here um Tom Graham who will swear in a second I also if the board has additional questions I have operational people from Thor Labs but I don't think we'll need to get to them because I think Tom will have uh enough information for the board so um Mr Collins do you want to swear in Mr Graham please it's um Mr Graham do you swear from the tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do and please state your name and address and spell your last name name Thomas Graham g r a a m I'm a uh partner in The Firm dyster Walker Design Group 21 Bowling Green Parkway Lake of pacon New Jersey I'm licensed professional engineer my license is current I've been licensed for 30 years I've testified in front of numerous boards in Pake Sussex Warren Hunter and Bergen uh Essex counties I have testified in front of this board in the past and been qualified as a professional engineer uh expert witness in all on All Occasions yes the board recognizes the the qualifications of Thomas Graham as a professional engineer and please go ahead gentlemen Tom can you go ahead and explain the application to the board so we're here tonight for uh property identified as block 12006 Lot 12 more commonly known as 15 Wilson Drive the property is 3.48 acres in size with approximate dimensions of 450 ft Deep by 425 ft wide trapezoidal in shape uh the property has Frontage along Wilson Drive to the east there is jcpnl power line easement running along the southern portion of this site there's a drainage and conservation easement along the westly portion of the site and an industrial uh building immediately to the north uh the property is located in your Ed Economic Development Zone we're here tonight because Thor Labs recently purchased the property and as part of uh the change of occupancy we have to present this minor site plan application to you um the property is fully developed with an industrial office building pave par in site identification sign mature Landscaping septic system Town water and electrical service the property meets all of the bulk requirements of the Zone with uh two minor exceptions uh one being the required sidey yard setback 30 ft is required the building is 29 ft to the sidey yard as per the survey that was provided uh for the application uh the building height on in the zoning table was incorrectly noted uh to be uh 25 ft it is actually 35 ft building meets the height requirement a review of the original architectural plan shows that from the first floor to the top of the parit is only 30 feet so the building easily meets the 35- Ft Building height requirement uh going through your planners and Engineers reports there were a couple of additional items that the planner asked us to provide one was for the parking coverage in the front yard uh there exists 21.6% where 25% is allowed um additionally there are 10 parking spaces along the front that or approved as part of the original application and not constructed and uh they're land banked until such time as those parking spaces may be needed if we include those parking spaces the uh pavement or impervious coverage in the front yard would be 25.2% uh the parking setback requirement is 25 ft to a RightWay line um both the existing and future um meet that requirement and uh there's a minimum requirement of 10 ft to a building the exist parking lot along the front is 8 ft to the building but those are pre-existing non-conforming conditions the applicants proposing no changes to the site no construction at all the only thing that we're doing is changing the message on the sign that's in the front yard to uh reflect the new tenant and uh as requested by Mr Simmons we're going to restrip the parking field uh the building itself requires 46 parking spaces spaces currently there are 33 standard and two handicap spaces for a total of 35 um as part of the original application a total of 12 parking spaces were land banked or reserved to be constructed in the future if and when needed 10 in the front yard and then two at the end of the existing parking lot that's on the side uh so that uh so the site requires 46 parking spaces the site has 47 parking spaces U there are no plans to construct uh those landbank spaces um and the parking calculation was based on office use and the manufact light manufacturing use the building itself is uh 13,120 ft the total floor area is 15,490 Ft that's the second floor mezzanine is office space so when we did all the calculations we need uh 46 parking spaces this project is the relocation of an existing facility from Blairstown to Sparta the total number of employees that would be here at any one time is 25 20 fulltime and five uh part-time employees are um as needed so there's plenty of parking for the site the way currently exists we don't require any additional parking um as part of that uh review by the uh planner there was some discussion regarding EV spaces or electronic vehicle spaces um because we're not doing any construction we're not required to install any EV spaces doesn't mean they won't do it in the future but as part of this application we want to get the CO so that we can move in and start business here if they need or there's a desire for the employees to have those spaces we'll be back in front of the board to deal with it at that time uh there is one loading space on the side of the building on the subtly side uh your ordinance requires two loading spaces for a building of this size uh this particular operation will only have up to two trucks per day so it's very light uh truck traffic and there's not a demand or need for two full loading spaces again that's a pre-existing non-conforming condition with respect to your Zone uh there is one freestanding sign out in the front uh that sign is uh only 18.8 ft from the RightWay where 20 ft is required uh the sign itself is a little bit smaller than the maximum that's allowed and um there is no uh proposal to relocate the sign it's a monument sign and it's consistent with the other signs in the development uh we're just going to be changing the sign board again to reflect the uh proposed tenant uh there are no building mounted signs uh proposed uh so the uh part of the process is a manufacturing process and there are some chemicals that are uh used and those were identified in the uh limited environmental impact statement that was provided to you there were the chemicals that are used and the anticipated volume of chemicals and we know that based on the existing operation in Blair San we're just moving here the volume of chemicals is very low and they are all stored in accordance with the manufacturers requirements and oosha safety requirements anything that leaves the site chemical is uh either stored in bins and carted off by a specific hauler the rags and such uh the uh containers are uh disposed of in accordance with all applicable rules nothing thing is discharged to the sanitary sewer system and then we did receive reports from the Township's fire prevention water department traffic engineer um and uh we take uh no issue with anything in the report uh the fire department did require that a nox box be installed and since that original report was written they did a require the nox box it's been installed it's been checked by the fire department they've signed off on it I just haven't seen the paperwork but we have that the county uh soil the soil I'm sorry Sussex County planning board has issued a letter of uh no further review required because it's an existing site which they reviewed and approved about 20 years ago and uh we have that letter if it hasn't been provided to the board we'll provide it we did reach out to the Sussex County Health Department regarding the septic system and again it is properly sized for the number of employees that we had and it was actually recently reconstructed just prior to the land sale and we got the sign off uh from the health department and I believe that letter is already on file with the town so um Tom Tom there was a there was a note in one of the professionals reports about uh low levels of lighting in the parking lot yes you speak to that for a second sure on sheet three of your U plans we did a light study uh where we measured the existing light um intensities around the property and there were a couple of dark spots since we've done that light study uh lamps have been replaced bulbs have been replaced and I can report to you that the site is now well lit and sufficient for the uh hours of operation uh associated with this project this is not a 24-hour uh operation daytime hours but the light the parking light is uh properly illuminated I think that I've um covered everything I have I think I covered the Planters and Engineers reports but if I missed something I'd be happy to try to answer any questions that you may have okay so that that that would be all the testimony for for tonight anything else unless the board has specific questions regarding operations but uh I do have additional witness here who could talk operations but I think Tom covered that this really not a whole lot of depth we need to go into the operations okay office and wareh uh industrial all right so with that let me let let me turn it over to the professionals so I can let them ask their questions first and then we'll bring it back to the day so uh Katherine you want to start thank you Mr Graham I only had um two questions I believe um one of them was you would outlined the some of the missing bulk standards that are part of the Ed Zone and you noted that if the currently banked parking spaces were ever constructed that they would be in violation of the parking area ratio requirement that the the maximum that were allowed I think was 25% corre and when I add those 10 spaces in we end up at 25.2% okay so normally with bank spaces um the reason why they're banked is that you would never have to come back before the board as an amended site plan to construct them they've already been thought through but in this case there's a potential variance that could be would need to be sought if they were constructed um I believe that would have been there uh shown as per the original approval okay I believe that that would have been something that was granted at the time I didn't have the resolution to re re through it but I can tell you we have 37 spaces on site we only have 25 employees there is almost no visitors to this site very low uh delivery traffic so we're not coming back to construct these Park spaces okay thank you and then the other question um was related to give me one second oh the um building layout and I want to apologize that uh in my memo I had noted the building footprint but not the total building square footage because there seems to be there's a mezanine there's a mezanine in the front area if you look at the building there's a a jog about a quarter of the way down that area is the upper mezzanine all open below and the mezzanine area is is just office space it's office space it's off it's finished office space okay thank you very much that how big is the mezine um approximately about 2,000 square feet give or take I I can get you the the number approxim but Tom the the mezzanine which is existing doesn't change the employee count that we've already told the board is that correct no no it doesn't change the parking count or the septic uh generation count that was all included in the calculations that were done and and I'll confirm the even though my memo only included the building footprint the parking calculations shown in my memo and on the applicants um plans and application do provide the correct total square footage which the parking was based on which is fine Mr Simmons yes sir Mr chairman uh just referring to my report that I prepared dated May 20th 2024 as Mr Graham went through his testimony he basically touched on all the items that I thought were gerine to this particular application the only other thing I'd like in or someone else maybe from the applicant side to elaborate a little bit on there was a schematic layout plan for the first and second floor layout of all the equipment and what have you but I didn't see a legend explaining exactly what was taking place so I thought it would be helpful for the board as someone did that okay uh I don't have a copy of that exhibit with me do you um I don't think I do but there's a question of what operations will be taking place in the building is that the question B basically just so the board has an understanding of it they could Mr Collins this is is Tyler Tyler I think you should come on this side um can you state your name for the board and then Mr Collins going to S swear you in Tyler morcus Tyler please raise your right hand do you swear from the tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God yes and please State your names by your last name and give it to Lis a business address Tyler morgus m o Gus 43 Sparta Avenue New New Jersey good Tyler why don't you tell us generally what you do for Thor labs and Thor Labs measurement system so I'm the VP of the North American operations for Thor laabs um of which Thor laabs measurement systems is one of the manufacturing groups that um falls under my um rather why don't you use the exhibit that was given to the board then you could put it up on the part of the application package but it's what Mr Graham was just referring to and Mr Simmons was just referring to that'll help you identify on paper what the operations r Tyler can you confirm that you familiar with the operations of Thor labs in general and familiar with the operations that will be going on in this facility yes okay can you explain to the board exactly what the applicant intends to use facility for other than office space I need to explain what off okay um so this is an engineering design and Manufacturing uh group and they make um Optical measurement systems so they use light um to inspect uh an object and then they can um the user of that can find out the exact dimensions and tolerances of the object that's being inspected so they build the system that does that measurement so in particular what will they you know what will happen on the manufacturing floor at this building okay so this building um I guess from the drawing um you can see that there's um uh an uh area where uh we'll have um you know two um CNC machines um to manufacture uh small metal components um and I think that those will be located um where did they put the drawing I'm sorry so this is the front of the building this is the back of the building or I have this backwards stairwell where's the loading door I just need to get oriented on this drawing it's the stairwell this is the mezzanine um okay so the Machining centers are going to be in the uh back left of the uh building um so those are standard CNC machines Mills um that make small components and then um you'll see that there's uh quite a bit of assembly space because the machine that they're building is sort of you know yay big by yay big by like this um and so the rest of this space is uh component inventory which the shelving so the long skinny stuff and then assembly areas where they assemble they have to put in the electronics the Optics um the granite base plate um that the system is built on so it's mostly just assembly work so on the on the manufacturing it's the CNC machines and then the rest is the Assembly of the product before it gets shipped to the customer that's correct and these operations are happening in other buildings locally that you're moving the operations to this building is that right correct this is not a new process this is an unknown process this is from we're moving it from Blairstown to Sparta the CNC machine is that a Clos system as far as any oils cutting oils or anything like that absolutely um so it's uh you know it's got a little coolant in it and other than that you plug it in um you know it's completely closed circulation there's nothing that flows in or out of the machine um during op discharged any drains no no discharge that's all the questions I have Mr chairman okay thank you all right let me bring it back to to the deas uh Justin anything down your end I'm good Ernie no question um you had mentioned that um there would be proper disposal of of liquids so what liquids if you have a contained system what liquids would you need and what would to dispos of and fall out of there and what would the volume be it's incredibly small for this operation since there's only two CNC machines but uh in a shop you usually have Rags right uh if you wipe a part that came right out of the machine um it could that that rag could have some uh coolant on it uh instead of just disposing of that rag we use um companies like safety clean and Clean Harbor um to take those uh you know essentially Rags away um and be properly uh disposed of what what is the coolant and what would be harmful in in the coolant to the environment because I'm just looking at diagrams of that area and I see that um the building is up against an abandoned real railroad uh Trail potential Trail and quite uh nice wetlands in that area yeah so I I mean I think the total amount of coolant is like a 10 gallons 15 Gallons right so it's not a a large amount of fluid uh even if it all leaked it you know we could just wipe it up um but uh the coolant is mostly water um and then it has uh some um you know it it has a uh something in it that's either uh U an artificial uh molecule or a prochemical molecule right that provides the lubrication but I I'm just not an expert in exactly the chemical formula of the coant thank you Tom do you want to say anything about your environmental impact statement your limited environmental impact statement I would just say we we did provide a limited environmental impact statement and we identified all of the chemicals that would be used in the operation and how they are stored and then how they're disposed of and nothing is going to be stored or leaked out to to the wetlands the storm drainage system or the sanitary sewer system it's everything is contained within the building good good yeah just to carry real quick is there any for drains in and around that produ in around that process area no sir so there's no for drains this is all slab slab all right and then your from your maintenance and your your on andm plans of of safety and maintenance and uh for that equipment that's done on a monthly basis an annual basis when are these machines usually cleaned um so yeah I'm not sure I so the the CNC equipment um you know is maintained um there's not a lot you have to do with these machines there's usually a a yearly tuneup kind of thing um but essentially uh they're designed to run um you know for 20 years okay so they're self-contained and they're maintained on minimum and annual basis all right thank you no further questions good evening gentlemen thank you for uh expressing interest in moving some of your operations into Sparta uh a couple questions about your hours of operation you said just uh I I think you said normal business hours before for I it's a daily shift so 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. you know covers yeah when people will be in the building during your testimony you mentioned that they're only expecting two delivery trucks per day with only one loading uh Zone what's the overlap procedure when there's two when both the trucks are there it's up to two per day and they can schedule when trucks come and go so typically there is not an overlap and if there was a time where two trucks ended up on site at the same time there was sufficient area where a car a truck could park in the parking space until it could get to the loading dock and there wouldn't be any loading for that truck that's sitting in the nothing out in the parking lot all activities occur in the building or at the space of the building putting stuff into the truck thank you very much that's all I have thank you I'm almost set you guys answer my questions just uh one quick question so the parking lot lighting is on From Dusk Till Dawn but your operating hours are from 6 to 6 is there any potential for dimming those parking lot lights on off hours work with dimming part of the reason that they're on is just for security um we want if somebody's in the parking lot at night we want them to be able to be seen um and not just uh getting around the building but we can work with uh your engineer to if there's to turn some of them off so that it's not fully lit all like that was not the uh the intent that's a smiling question thank you I'm good thank you the there was one thing I saw on the report that hadn't been addressed yet and that was the use of the sprinkler systems could you address that the building will meet all building and fire codes if sprinkler system is required it'll be there it's hooked up to town water so the systems pressurized and uh it meets the building requirements are they in place now I believe that they are but I we can find that out for you okay if they're not would you consider putting in if you have to do it brand new would you consider say if they're not in today since the former operation was very similar to what we're proposing in fact they had like a dozen CNC machines in there we're only going to have two and they had the office space I would say that it does not need to be sprinklered because they would not have had occupancy of that building under the current building code so if it's not sprinklered we I don't think we would put it in because it's not required okay um anything else joh yeah okay a couple Qui quick questions I have uh I just want to make sure so you will be the only company in in that building single tenant building single tenant thank you um you mentioned there 25 employees uh are are any of those spoted is there any opportunity for spoted jobs there or they all fold right now or uh I think that yeah I mean Thor laabs has a excellent um history of hiring uh in the county um I myself live in Newton New Jersey I moved here because I worked for Thor labs and I own a home um and a lot of the people that work for me work you know in the county so you know approximately how many people work in the county for th ah I you know I don't have that number off thep 800 you know yeah and certainly we wouldn't discriminate wait a minute wait a minute we can't take testimony unless the witness is gor so I don't have any problem with adding a witness um but you must do it by a witness okay want to come up real quick I don't want to take too much time because but I think this important point to to uh let the board know about our commitment to the county uh Robert why don't you state your name for the record and a business address and your title at laabs Robert Regin ball re e g i m b a l I'm Thor Labs CFO and general counsel the address is 43 Sparta Avenue Newton New Jersey Robert do please raise your right hand do you swear for him to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you G I do and just please St your name again Robert Reginal re g i m b l thank you Robert and uh now go go ahead and testify as to anything you want to add Robert how long have you worked for Thor 13 years and you're familiar with the global operations of Thor Labs I am and can you tell us approximately how many employees do we have does Thor Labs have in the county in the county approximately 800 and and globally 3,000 3,000 okay and we hire without uh regard to where our employees live that's correct okay all right thank you um relative to the sign I I didn't hear much about just a couple questions there so in terms of the existing sign how is it illuminated and how will this sign be illuminated so it it's a monument sign um there is no internal illumination uh there may be one ground mounted uh light up up lighting it just so that people come through when it's dark early in the winter or late in the winter um but it's uh would just be a spot light directly illuminated against a sign nothing intern nothing uh external so it's basically what's there now and that's what it's going to say so you're just replacing the replacing the the message on the sign okay great um was there anything that talked about the sign in terms of the color of the letter or anything like that so the final message sign is still being decided upon but okay Thor Labs if you're familiar with their other signs in the county it's block letters so it'll be Thor labs and block letters and we'll probably say measurement systems along the bottom as well and probably the uh street address uh the colors would either be Thor red and white or maybe black and white but nothing outrageous once it's once it's finalized would you be willing to submit it to the minor side plan subcommittee just to have them take a look at it or or to your building department for this sign for absolutely okay um let me see what else was there and again said in terms of uh chemicals there's no outdoor storage of any chemicals Material supplies or anything like that the only thing outside is the dumpster for the office East okay great that that's all the questions I have thank you um so with that let me open up to the public see if the public has any questions relative to the testimony that was given okay I see none um Mr chairman can I just ask you one point of clarification on the messaging un signed we'll submit that to Mr Simmons's office for approval on the message un signed is that is that acceptable I I just want to make it clear you're not intending for us to come back for another public hearing for the messaging UNS sign um some if you can submit it to um to zoning and let them determine what the proper approval is okay okay and it's it's either be Mr Simmons or or it would be um the mon Cy plan subcommittee so okay but I will not delay you proceeding with your occupancy you'll just be trying to make sure your sign meets the sign ordinance right and the colors are that's completely sub to the zoning official okay and make sure it complies I think we know what the Thor lab signs look like so now be careful about size that you're not changing the size so you have a little smaller than what's allowed the only uh non-conformant part is it's too close to the right okay thank you so Mr Collins I guess could you help us with the bo is ready by the way I'm I'm satisfied I kind of remember this application before and I think that they were approved for the ex parking spaces we call for testimony for the public or any yeah we did already we did did yeah I was sign miss that I forgotten in the past so thank you okay so U so I'm satisfied that the existing conditions were previously approved and that the we although we have Bank parking spaces here it doesn't sound very likely that they'll ever be used but that is a typical requirement of a site plan when uh the ordinance requirement is slightly larger than the need um and that's a good way to be able to deal flexibly with future applicants who might not actually be Thor Labs might have actually need more parking so that the setback uh the potential coverage uh if the 10 were built or 12 were built they're all part and parcel of the prior approval and uh so now what we're dealing with is an amended site plan and any related relief so it's a motion by the board to approve the amended site plan with the dis conditions discussed this evening uh it'll be effective this evening so they can proceed effective immediately to occupy provided all other requirements of compliance are met and U they will U Tom you can speak up just a little bit sure they will comply with Dave Simmons's review report and with Katherine samad's review report and the other review reports except as explained in this testimony tonight uh they will coordinate their uh security light they they will reduce the hours of operation of the lighting to the satisfaction of the township I'm sorry the board engineer um and the board and they may continue to have some security lighting as explained by Mr Graham uh to the extent approved by the board engineer any dispute with the board board engineer will be returned to the board for final determination uh there'll be no disposal of has materials on the site or into uh the uh septic system uh and they will properly comply with all uh requirements relating to any waste materials um uh the existing sign will be illuminated externally only and the message change on the sign will be subject to the review and approval of the zoning officer and board engineer but probably also the site plan subcommittee but this does not delay the applicant proceeding with occupancy immediately um and that's all I had Mr chairman does anybody else have any other things that I heard everything that I think I needed to hear anybody else terms of the resolution whether the motion okay would anybody like to make a motion to adopt the resolution is stated by Mr Collins make a motion make the motion okay may I have a second second okay Dory roll call please n Burke yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enri yes Joan Ferman yes Justin caneles yes Celeste Luciano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes chairman Ronde yes good luck all right motion passed thank you gentlemen good luck and welcome [Music] okay uh so the second application that we'll be hearing tonight is uh PB 24715 it's a preliminary and final site plan for a new Warehouse the application was submitted by baringer Corp and is proposed to be located at 10 Aron way block 16003 uh so folks please feel free to come up and introduce yourselves and U Mr Collins just where you at good evening everyone my name is Nick ropi I'm with the law firm of rer Danzig and I'm here tonight representing the applicant baringer Corp um I'll leave the details of the application in the very capable capable hands of Mr Campbell but in short we're here tonight uh to request preliminary and final site plan approval together with the variant for the property located at 10 Aaron way what I will say is that I'm pleased to be part of this application and I say that because uh we bring this application because we have a local company here has been here many years is doing well and needs to expand number one number two company wants to expand here where it is and three the complex in which it seeks to build was designed and contemplated exactly for this type of use and structure I can tell you in this era with all the challenges and obstacles that the businesses faces development in New Jersey having these three components are exceedingly rare and so when I have an opportunity to present an application in these circumstances I'm happy to to actually participate and I always request support for these businesses because we certainly can use as many as we can we can get that's my two-minute speech I would like to say we have a great team assembled here tonight um with our engineer and planner Mr Campbell who has been a pleasure to work with given his attention to detail and his focus on the things that matter our architect Mr Flanigan as well as a representative of the baringer Corp Wayne Van Horn who's the operations manager so uh if there's no objection we have the owners here as well um and if there's any questions of them as well they're here they can answer any questions Mr Collins do we need to swear anybody in yes i' I'd like to swear uh anyone who'll be testifying so so we don't forget later so anybody who will be testifying I think it was Mr Flanigan and Mr Van Horn please come to this mic over here and please everybody who's testifying Raise Your Right hands you can do it together I swear do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God yes we do and starting with on my left your right uh please state your name spell your last name and give us at least a business address starting with myself Alan Campbell I'm a license professional engineer and professional planner I have the firm at nine Cook Road branchman New Jersey it's Robert Campbell Associates I've been a licensed professional engineer and professional planner for an excess of 35 years I've appeared before the sparta board in those years numerous other boards throughout the county um my credentials have been accepted throughout the state in various different levels of Municipal Lan use as well as other courts hearings and the like I have also um been qualified through out as a professional planner as my planning credentials are a little bit more than the typical Engineers where my undergraduate studies were at the urban uh Ruckers Urban School of planning prior to having the degree suff there was no real degree in urban planning in my days uh it was only a graduate degree at that time um so I would say that I've been represented as an expert witness before this board before and I would hope that would be acceptable yes that we'll just confirm that the board recognizes and accepts the qualifications of Alan Campbell as a professional engineer and professional planner and we can do the architect's qualifications later before he testifies but uh now the architect please state your name spell your last name and give us at least a business address sure Jeffrey Flanigan and f l a n i g n and business address 460 West Shore West Shore trail sport New Jersey thank you Jeffrey and sir I'm Wayne Van Horn I'm operations manager at baringers business address would be 17 Ridge Road Branchville and when please SP your last name sure capital V an capital h o r n thank you please go ahead gentlemen so Mr Campbell would you give the board uh first of all the history of the complex because I think that's important and then um the an explanation of our application tonight yes and thank you um the application tonight is for the baringer Corp it's going to be at block 16003 lot5 number 10 Aaron Way the property is 2.23 acres and is in your Ed Zone what I'd like to start with for this evening and I won't take much of the board's time but in 2003 I first became associated with this property and maybe even later in the 90s I should say and in the late 90s early 2000 Senator latel had owned this property and he had approached us to pursue a development as another portion of Sparta's Economic Development land areas and what I I'd like to go through and I'll mark As exhibit Mr Collin how do you like the exhibit address as would you describe the exhibit too Mark it as A1 was it already in your plan set though uh no it was not okay so A1 a177 24 what I have marked as A1 is titled final major subdivision lot 44 block 26 White Lake Road for White Lake Technical Center this is is sheet two of the final major subdivision as it was presented in 20036 of January 2006 is the original date and then there subsequent dates of January March April and then the latest date August 29 2006 when the final plat was finalized signed it is now in the county clerk's office I am using as A1 a copy from my files by the way the engineer and surveyors of this was Robert Campbell Associates so I personally was involved with the subdivision creating the subdivision that is now I believe they call weight White Lake Commerce Park and initially it was referred to as White Lake Technical Center the important aspects that I want to point out on A1 was that the concept of this development was an overlap of efforts between the municipality the property owner or the developer in 2003 it was recognized that much of the Ed Zone was being developed with sites that had to incorporate their own storm water on site and this was one using valuable land uh which could be used for more intense development on each of these properties and two it was leading to possibly the need for additional variance relief for other aspects of the properties so simar to your application you had here before I'm not certain that that address rings a bell it may be site I designed which was previously here when it was the original design I had done numerous sites throughout Wilson Drive Gil court and the like and as we were pursued what was the good approach to develop this property it was previously a sand and gravel operation it was brought down to a flat grade almost like an airst strip down the center and the objective was determined between I believe it was Charlie Ryan Mr Simmons myself as Engineers um David tro and the senator who was pursuing a vision of having sites that didn't necessarily have to be large Lots but could still sustain what was a desirable site as a commercial facility for the needs of what they saw Gil Court Commerce and Park Drive so this final subdivision resulted in the various lots that you see up and down Aaron way and more significantly what was Lot n the back right corner of the kvasac as we look at it the 3.8 acre lot was designated to be a regional stormwater Basin and this Regional stormwater Basin was to be turned over to the town so that the town could manage and be responsible for the maintenance of this Basin the of that was that the development and that particular Basin was in close proximity to the well heads that Supply to water system and by managing the storm water the town in conjunction with a private developer could have a good plan to better manage the quality of storm water going into the ground and the maintenance of that Basin while at the same time at the cost of the lot having a more intense development on each of these lots that were then subdivided to conforming lot sizes and as you see the subdivision throughout so that would be essentially the total of A1 um the other thing they point out was that this is more or less the last trip of land in the Ed Zone as you go down White Lake Road after this development you now have the recreational facilities those recreational facilities on vast tracks of land which have very little impervious cover on them predominantly large tracks of perious land again on a soil base that was Prior soil removal operation sand and gravel and this is important because of the nature of the water quality and the treatment of storm water as it goes back into the ground which is now all done regionally for the most part on that right rear lot which is adjacent to the railroad strip and adjacent to the wellheads one of additional important fact as the cooperation is emphasized between the municipal and the private development there is also a water main easement that was given from the property owner the developer to the municipality this water main provides for a water line that was required by the D as part of the water service that goes from the water facility lot six and has conveyance back to the lake so someplace in one of the approvals I don't the particulars to it but the municipality was required to actually put water back as some kind of balancing act with the groundwater mounding or ground watering analysis that the D had done for the draw of those Wells that were on that lot six that's the extent that my knowledge of that is that I coordinated and had the easement set up through the property in order to facilitate the needs of municipalities water system what I'd like to go to next is A2 A2 is a 30X 42t sheet so excuse the fact I folded it up so I could only get to the important stuff on an easel that would be manageable and A2 is sheet 501 of the preliminary subdivision for that Aaron white the title reads Road plan and profile preliminary subdivision White Lake technical Center original date February 2003 and it has revision dates through 2003 but more important it has revision dates of 2018 as well so from 2003 the approvals were granted the map was filed the improvements were bonded but until 2018 it was never constructed so in 2018 when it was going to be constructed the storm water aspects were redesigned in order to address the storm water regulations as they existed in 2018 the importance for me tonight and for the applicant and for all of the properties that were developed on Aron way is emphasizing again that lot that was dedicated for the regional storm water basin you can note the size of that Basin the Basin has the access for maintenance it's fenced it's enclosed and in the 2018 design it was actually able to discharge into a neighboring Basin which further provides additional water quality treatment which again is the most important aspect of all interest for the storm water issues with A2 I would like to recite some of the notes that you see highlighted as they're going to result and have an impact on tonight's application and more or less the reason why I felt it necessary to bring this presentation portion to the board and on the top left side of A2 it indicates that the first catch Basin on each lot shall have a sump maintained by the lot owner the drainage and storm water basin is designed to provide for 50% impervious on all Lots emphasizing that the way this site was developed by having a regional Basin the intent of the division was to allow up to 50% perious cover having more intense development on the property because it had already mitigated the storm water and managed to use the smaller lot sustain the same development as a larger lot May while at the same time you have a 3.8 acre lot that's not being constructed and has no imper cover on it I emphasize that too that the access drivein is a porest pavement section it's not an impervious pavement section additionally to note the combination of effort between the municipality and the private sector there's additional notes that talk to the maintenance of these catch basins on each of these sites and it references how the property owner or the building manager must maintain and pump those septic or those storm water basins that have the sump in them and do cleaning of their storm water catch BAS on site two times a year and then provide this cleaning records to the municipality that is a condition of the major subdivision that was approved in 2018 and as you look at what the water quality importance in Sparta is lying on this aquafer that we are every design rotates around designing to protect the aquafer that we ride on with this development and others in the region this issue will require the baringer Corp to twice a year have those storm water basins I'm sorry catch basins cleaned and provide documentation that is cleaned and whatever is cleaned out of the Basin is disposed with the proper tipping fee receipt um that is a requirement of the subdivision that's a requirement that we're obligated to and I emphasize that to the board as we move on with describing the site planine Mr Mr Campell if I could um those two um exhibits do you have any extra copies that we could give to our engineering and planner right now uh some sometime when when you finish to leave them with Miss Fox Okay as the exhibits okay um Mr Simmons was there in 2018 with us um would you like me to provide it no go finish what you're doing and we we'll figure figure it out as we go very good um so what I'll mark next is A3 A3 is the say plan sheet as it's been resubmitted after your various professionals have reviewed the plan I'm marking it as an exhibit because I've highlighted it in order to recognize where the specific revisions were made from the original submission through to the resubmissions of strictly this sheet this sheet that addressed Mr Simmons comments and your planner comments that uh came obviously after the initial submission the sheet which is being identified as A3 is the site plan sheet it reads lot five block 16003 for baringer Corp 10 Aaron Way original date of November 2023 and the significant revision dates since it was initial submission uh 61024 per Mr Simmons report and 62524 Pere planners report the highlighted emphasis in yellow as the engineering the highlighted emphasis in the green are those changes to the site that were made as a result of the report from your planner so as we look at the site which I described earlier as the 2.2 ACR property it the property is located at the intersection of Aron way and Park Lake Road and is to the Westerly side of that Park Lake Road so as we look at Aaron way we're proposing an entrance offsetting that Road intersection and we're proposing an entrance to our site at the furthest distance from that intersection as reasonable which is a safety aspect to offset our entrance to that of the the Road intersection we have designed this entrance and exit to get to a point where it's approximately 75 ft into the property where it will be a two-way entrance and the only parking space that will be in front of the building along Aron way will be that of a handicap stall which will provide the most ready access for the handicap to the building entrance which will be where the welcome offices and the like for this facility the building size that's being proposed is 85 ft by 215 ft it is meeting all the required setbacks of the Zone with the site design at that entrance location I described earlier it will also lend itself as being a fire Access Lane to get to that first point of the corner of the building the uh Fire review has been made the plan was revised reference a No Parking fire lane designation that would be painted on the entranceway the building will be sprinklered adjacent to that we have the two water lines noted one is the portable water coming off the main that it's already valved and then the second will be the secondary line which will be secondary service for the sprinkler system again your public works department has reviewed this we had that review for the septic when we obtained the septic permit which has been issued by the county of Sussex the review of the water department which has again given the letter and recognized that with the water service being available for what we're proposing the fire department review we do have a soil erosion Sate control certification for when the construction should proceed as we come in the property off of Aron way we go to a one-way access strip on the right side of the building or to the west and we have parallel parking which will be obviously both sides of that entrance way the be the applicable signage to deter traffic from going wrong way from both entrance and exits on the other way which I'll describe the entrance coming off of Park Lake and as we come in off Aon way we'll be able to come in with any type of vehicle this is designed to handle any truck straight truck tractor trailer Andor garbage truck so the design has ready circulation for the truck which can come in predominantly through Aaron way they're going to be signed and told to come in here so that the trucks are monitored as they come into the site the other access to the property and exit to the property is on what's call the subtly side of the property as it fronts on Park Lake Road Again the driveway is pushed as far from the intersection as feasible both of these driveways are in locations that are safe with the site distance and access both entrances are designed to have ready uh flexibility for truck turns and the like and this particular access will be a two-way entrance it'll facilitate any of the intended employee parking or the parking that's required to meet the ordinance the access also provides perpendicular parking up towards the building parallel parking on the south side of the lot that adjacent to the CP Engineering Building then you have two garage access points which the use and operations of those will be described later by the operations manager the one garage door which is closest to the West is also adjacent to where we have additional parking with EV ready spaces being proposed these parking spaces include handicap spaces as well in order to accommodate the the required handicap stall count relevant to the overall count which currently is now 41 spaces as a total that 41 spaces was reduced from 42 as a result of accommodating certain comments that were needed to be addressed in the revised plans 41 spaces still meets the required parking by ordinance that of what we're proposing uh the second garage access door is larger in nature the islands are intentionally cut short and the cross-hatching being painted in order to provide beyond ready access for trucks so that if the truck's not making a perfect ter he's not jumping curves we also have parking that is more or less perpendicular to the access of the garage door and we note that one or two of these parking spaces will be inconvenienced if there's a truck at the loading do door these are EV ready spaces it'll be an extra few minutes for the car to charge basically if they have to wait for a truck to leave it will be controlled leave employee parking and it can be told internally by the management as far as any inconvenience these parking space May con R because of the truck parked in front of them Mr Campbell if I can with the ring if you could talk a little bit closer into the mic I think it would help I'll try to do that thank you hopefully everything said so far was loud and clear I good um the only other aspect on the site that I should make reference to in conjunction with the rear of the building is that of the dumpster enclosure which is tucked away in the back corner or the back right corner as you look at it from way um it's remote from view it's hidden in the back so to speak as we would like the dumpster to be and it's designed in a location where the garbage truck can load either front or rear so historically with the dumpsters we've had to design is it a back load garbage truck or a front Lo garbage truck in this particular case we design for both and either can facilitate access to the stump location if it's the front they need to K turn they have the loading area to make the K turn and I've demonstrated as a response to one of the reports an exhibit with truck turn patterns and demonstrate that tractor trailer can readily take this garage store all the trucks and the garbage truck can readily access any of the garage stores and turn and motion without obstruction the other feature that we're designing is we're proposing a rain Garden between Aaron way and the proposed building and we're doing this for various reasons one is that the current storm water rules would like to see as much cheat flow and Overland water travel from motor vehicle surfaces as they phrase it and in this particular case as you come in to drive off of Aron way we're proposing a section of flush curb this curb strictly flush not M uh not depress which sticks out of the ground an inch and a half but actually flush so that the snow plow can read push snow through that curve line You'll note that we do not put our proposed sign 25 ft off the road which would be a desirable location we actually put it at 35 ft and we put that sign at 35 ft so that the area in front of the sign is clear so when the truck comes through to plow it has an area to push the snow without having to interfere and hit the sign so to speak it also allows the snow to get off the curve line get into to the area where it's supposed to melt down and then go into the rain Garden which will be a landscape feature in the front of the building again the rain Garden provides additional water quality treatment as we've known it over the past three to four years now the rain Garden has been a more customary water quality device um the site is being lit and illuminated with your typical LED lights throughout there's information on the lighting plan I suspect we may get into more detail at a later date um as far as delighting hours of operation and the operations in itself I did have a facilities report that uh will comment to the hours of operation the number of employees but I think that may be best addressed by the operations manager and the I believe the next aspect that um should be covered off of A3 would be the freestanding sign that we have not touch space but I did comment as to its location being 35 ft as opposed to 25 ft and this freestanding sign is diagrammed in the bottom left corner of A3 I believe the diagram speaks for itself it's got like like a stone monument face going to it it has two light bars which will uplight it and not AOW discretionary flood type of light it'll be a subtle light bar that just illuminates it from the bottom coming off the monument the monument is proposed to be 7 ft front to back 8.6 ft High to the plate and the base of that sign will be some four feet the width front the back will be so 3.2 ft again the sign will be located at that location 35 ft from the right away and you'll see in a landscape plan that there'll be significant landscape proposed around the base of that sign what I have on the easel is the landscape plan which was uh the second round of plans that was submitted to the board this landscape plan demonstrates the amount of planting that is being proposed primarily to offset that section in the ordinance where it's a percentage of planting versus percentage of impervious in addition to that we believe we've exceeded that ratio with this planting scheme and as you see coming in off Aron way there's additional shade trees part of what the Aaron Way proposal Incorporated shade trees along Aaron way we cannot plant trees down at the intersection where we have sight triangle easement the rain Garden has the perimeter with plantings and we also will be putting applicable plantings in the rain Garden itself the sign as designated has significant plant beds around the sign as noted the perimeter of the parking lot has numerous plantings that go through the entire perimeter property line right s side line as you're looking for Aon Road and the rear lot adjacent to CP Engineers against the building on the Park Lake Road there's an extensive amount of plantings that run along that face of that building one of the comments was to break up the face of the building what's now proposed is a significant number of plantings as well as five trees that are proposed to obviously mature in time and as they mature in time the landscape becomes more enhanced but these trees are proposed to basically break up the lower end of that building in the appearance which was a comment that we took and responded to uh likewise more plantings along the back of the building plantings paralleling the entire front of the building so essentially the entire building is perimeter plantings the plantings are intended to basically enhance the view of that lengthy building as you may look at it from a perspective yet relevant to the lot and relevant to other buildings in the development this is typical in the size of the building we're proposing relevant to the lot size that we're working with um plantings around the dumpster the various Evergreen plantings the various buffer plantings so as you can see by the planting scheme there are significant plantings proposed in this particular planting um specific Brands I can't comment to what the actual plants are but I can comment that if we know Farms side we've seen their product around the farmside does a very attractive planting job when it's done um that's what I can tell you about the landscape plan in the nature of how much planting is being proposed to accommodate those aspect of your ordinance as a percentage of the impervious cover which is the ratio that the ordinance calls for I believe I've covered with presentation the primary aspects of the site design the history of the subdivision uh I don't know procedurally if you want to go through reports at this time or if you wanted me to um comment on some of the other reports that came in that I did respond to such as the environmental commission or whether we go to the professional reports that are here now um I leave that to your discretion and what your procedure would beer why don't we um so what so you're going to testify to the environmental report as well what what aspects will you be testifying to well the the environmental report that I received and I did I did a response to the environmental report um and my response was primarily recognizing the zone that they referenced we were designated in when they looked in under the Highland planning uh aspects of things and our findings in this application were that we were in what they referred to as the existing Community Zone contrary to what we saw in the environmental report and the existing Community Zone consists of the areas with regionally significant concentrated development significantly existing communities development signifying existing communities these areas tend to have limited environmental constraints due to previous development patterns and may have existing infrastructure that can support development and Redevelopment provided that such development is compatible with the protection and character of the Highlands invol that is a quote from the highlands ecz Zone which I believe from my research on it and I presented this in response application that's where we lie and it would make fense which is why I thought it was important to identify that this property was a s removal operation sand gravel in the 90s and L I.E redevelop it is specifically cited in an area surrounded by development which has all the facilities in the utility to support the development the road infrastructure the utilities the electrical the water tur and the soils that are very compatible for detic so that is where my concern was about the environmental Commission report that tended to have a recommendation that I felt needed to come to the board is it's my opinion from researching what we've confined in the highlands information that we are in fact in the ecz zone which is actually cited for what we're proposing okay anything else that you'd like to give testimony to or um I think open up the questions at this point well well to the reports or question whichever you would like to see the reports he's saying that he can comment on Dave and Mr Simmons reports Dave Simmons's report so so um you want to comment on it or should we go a good questions from Mr Simmons or what's the best way to do it I guess you got com if you got comments you want to make before we go to questions why I would think that would be appropriate for Mr Simmons to go through his report at this time because if I haven't previously covered it my testimony I respond y that's where I going okay that's right Mr chairman yeah okay just uh referring to the report I prepared dated June 6 2024 as you go through the report Mr Campbell has commented on several of the issues I'll just highlight a couple um again with regards to the plans and the exhibits that he's mentioned tonight there were a couple iterations where some of the comments in here have been addressed on the revisions and specifically I'll look on page AG two under zoning where we talked about 4ot minimum setback from the sidewalk to the parking areas 8ot in other areas parking areas up next to the building and some of this going over to page three some of the sizes of the parking spaces 9 by2 where some spaces were only 9 by8 and needed a waiver perhaps Mr campbellan I'm sorry if I missed it could just highlight what he changed on there to address that ab and and exactly why I thought this would be appropriate because there one item that I air and not covering all right so our original approach with this property was to use uh 10 by1 18s or 9 by8 parking stalls and it was pointed out that that would take special relief it was also noted in Mr simm report the offset to the sidewalk so in those areas that were relevant we altered the sidewalk setback from the curb line to make it comply we widen a sidewalk in certain locations in order to address better circulation when we are say parallel parking when parallel parking we would want the sidewalk at the curb line not offset from the curb line so if that takes a waiver I don't know that parallel parking is applicable compared to the perpendicular parking the perpendicular parking we have offset and we provided a 4ft walk and offset it 4T from the curb we've also modified this parking lot in uh the later response which took it and made it 20ft stall so we no longer have the issue of the 18t stalls historically we had designed through the Ed Zone a variety of different parking spaces and basically people that work whatever they drive they fit the parking spot to their needs the 9 by1 18s have historically been an approved site from past years um but recognizing that we could we did and we made them 20 ft these changes did not impact the original calculation as certain changes offset others with the impervious cover calculation that was initially part of our application which is the 48% and the variance which we need to talk about in some time in this application so when we took a sidewalk from 5T to 4 feet it reduced that portion but when we took a parking wall up when we took the parking stall out or when we moved the parking stall to accommodate another need these things washed the impervious cover back and forth from our original application and notice for the 48% yet it addressed the offset for the walkway the parking lot sizes the 4ft walk when it's 5T or 4T off the curb line that type of thing was done in the revised plans that the board is now reviewing okay on page five excuse me page three of the report under the architectural plans uh two questions just to address an elevator shown bringing materials to the proposed mezzanine is there any emergency generator proposed for this site yes the emergency generator is noted to be in the rear by the second garage door it'll be up against the building it'll be in whatever applicable enclosure and it'll be sized according to whatever mechanical needs it will be the enclosure is typically done with it's a soundproof enclosure and these generators are set up typically to where they will address any noise level requirements of the state so that the emission of noise is buffered by the building any echo or any transmission is towards the CP engineer building and that generator will have whatever design requirements for sound shielding that's applicable and on that same architectural plan comment um not sure if this is for the architect or for Mr Campbell but any HVAC units are they ground mounted or building mounted on the roof these are going to be ground mounted and again in the back by the garage doors they'll be against the building on the opposite side of the garage access as that of the generator so our Mechanicals will be in the back of the building they won't be visual from the roadway and again they'll be in the service area I.E the loading dock and or the loading garage base uh Mr Campbell went over the storm water management uh pretty extensively uh I did have a suggestion until we spoke uh earlier this week uh regarding an additional Inlet and comment 7D but as Mr Campbell indicated not a depressed curb but a flush curb so they could in fact plow that area where that comment came from just so the board knows we've run into this with the dot on some applications where uh it may not have a curbed section but in the winter time when they plow the snow and then the snow bag freezes if there's a low area or place where it won't normally drain where it normally sheet flows off then you get into a situation where you have a potential icing situation so they have us under dot venacular put in what they call a snow Inlet and that's where that comment came from but Mr Campbell came up with a note on the plan and the additional flush curb to address the same thing which is acceptable to me thank you uh the lighting plan again uh for security purposes they've got the lights on from closing until 700 a.m. uh I don't know if there's any possibility of some of the lights being dimmed as you heard in the previous application I suspect that these lights can be managed today we can control the LED lights in many different ways we'll adjust them to where there will be a safe light level in the evening and the security lights will be dimmed to where they still function as security lights but if possible less than what you would normally need for your illuminated sidewalks okay then going on to the water and sanitary sewer system again I believe the Township Water and Sewer director has looked at everything in the county health department and with regards to those items including the building being sprinklered I think we've Mr Campbell's addressed that with regards to signage I didn't see anything that violated any Township Code that I'm aware of uh especially the facade sign is not proposed to be illuminated as I understand it uh with regards to our Landscaping ments they did revise the plan from farmside to provide some additional Landscaping uh and our landscape architect will review that further with regards to the environmental impact statement uh perhaps under items 14 a b and c uh there could be a little additional testimony on that uh primarily starting with item C verify there's no floor drains in the proposed building there will be no floor drains in this building okay uh item a the applicant should outline the proposed activities that will take place that may be Mr Vin horn I'm not sure that will be operations and B the applicant to outline the materials that will be used and stored at the site to confirm no hazardous materials again Mr Van Horn probably and then in item 15 recommended all the various permits that should be obtained and as customary I recommend that an as built be prepared upon completion of the project if the board approves it just to verify everything's completed in accordance with with the conditions of any approval the board might consider and that's my comment Mr chairman okay thank you m Mar I only have a handful of questions um I guess I'll start with something easy um so the landscape plan was updated um looks like the date was doesn't have a revision date but the L plan was updated after the uh at least after Mr Simmons review memo was issued um which did include um notations on the plan to show conformance with the requirements under 18- 5.3.0 1D um and then there are additional landscape requirements that were implemented as part as the ordinance update for the Ed Zone which have um are spe mostly specific to the Ed Zone and a few other zones um and some of those require ments my memo very generally requests that the applicant um note if they're in compliance with them um because some of them do overlap with the regular Landscaping requirements but then there are other things that I think should be shown on the plans at least um my inkling is that they do comply with them because the landscape plan was updated in detail but there's something like the landscape area ratio of 04 um which is it's not just Landscaping it's landscaping and ground cover uh contributes towards that so it's very very likely because the ovious coverage is 48% that that means that the landscape area ratio is probably complied with um but that's something that should be added to the plans any revised plans the board we'll make sure we comply thank you um and for and there's a number of other not Quantified um requirements that are to the nature of native plantings no use of exotic species and things like that looking at the plant um the planting schedule it's seems like we could probably piix some of those things up and maybe have some suggestions for Native plantings what I have run into um when I've made this suggestion in other municipalities before other applicants is that um sometimes they can be hard to come by and so i' I'd recommend that if the board looks favorably upon this application that we could work either through reso compliance with myself um or Mr Simmons to make sure that the Landscaping plan um meets the intent and purpose of the ordinance as far as native plantings sure we can do that okay thank you um as far as the revised plan so my memo was based on the um initial site plan that was from June 10th or it's the first revision after Mr Simmons memo and so I had noted that um at the rear some of the parking spaces adjacent to the Loading um did did um kind of present a conflict as far as travel and Mr Campbell did go over those um in the updated plan um after my review memo so I just wanted to touch upon that because there was a there was a revision to the plan which did take away the closest parking space in that row towards the building um and then just left four spaces there they are left as EV spaces I'm still not thrilled that's a not a technical term but um I think that there still probably are some conflicts the the truck turning plan does show that there's no issue navigating the site but I do think anytime we could avoid or eliminate conflicts we should um that's not to say that you should seek a parking variance or anything like that but um I think I guess my question is you mentioned that these will likely be employee spaces I think there's some employee spaces designated there corre and there are there's if I might clear there's there's spaces that are specifically designated as employee spaces M so that we can control those locations they're specific to where that cross-hatching is versus the curve L and if the space I believe it's talking about which would be space number 15 correct which is approximately 30t from the building I.E if a 35t straight truck is there that space isru and if it's felt that it's inappropriate to have that space there we could certainly move the space over by where 28 is I I think it could be even easier maybe or maybe we're saying the same thing is I would maybe unless the wiring is you know based on the engineering the wiring is there intended to be there then the EV spaces should be linked with that but if you can move the wiring I'd move the EV spaces and make those all employee employee row of parking because employees are likely going to be the ones who won't have issues needing to leave the site whereas an EV might be for a visitor or someone who is not you know doesn't know the schedule of deliveries and things like that it may seem minor but I think it's a way to avoid the conflict and I appreciate it so what we can do is I will figure out a location to satisfy the relocation of the UN charger the future charger and we'll make these employee spaces I anticipated the Ed space was actually going to be used by an employee okay many of the facilities we have the employees go from one destination to another and if they have the electric vehicle it's an opportune time you'll note that baringer has their Prime facility on Ridge Road uh literally two minutes from my office off the Cook Road in Frankfurt New Jersey and they have a facility over on Gil court so this would be their second spart of facility so if someone's coming it's anticipated that if an employee is coming with an electric car from one facility they will be the ones potentially putting a car on charge while they're going in for the two or three hours that they're at the facility okay that's the intention why I was leaving them next to the employee okay um with that I will say that um you know the EV um Chargers are evolving over time what I would recommend if this board looks favorably upon this application is that these bases be not made public there are many kind of apps and things like that which direct people to fine Chargers that are available and what I would recommend is that they not made public they be specific to the site and used only by employees visitors of the site and I concur with that encourage it as we're not a service station on the highway thank you that's all I have for for the engineer thank you okay great want to start down this end uh I'm I'm good with my questions not at this time thank you I have a couple of questions um you mentioned the twice annual water basin testing who who's responsible for that testing that's a cleaning the storm water basin the inlets the inlet structures themselves yeah have they call sump in the bottom of the catch base the sump traps all the litter and suspended solids that go from the driveway into the catch Bas this is basically a chamber at the bottom like a 5 gallon or 10 gon plck in the bottom of the catch Bas the description and the owner has to retain a company that comes out with the vacuum truck and service the inlet twice a year that is a requirement of the original supervision okay and then that so it's an outside company that does this and the report goes to the municipality okay got it thank you um oh what what are the hours of operation did we say will okay that's fine thank you um and then are the E is the EV charging station um make ready or will you actually have one make ready this okay so what's that like three and a half years from now how how does that work again when you build this facility you basically put the conduit in place ready to service the unit when it goes in and so basically the electrical like you're doing the sight lighting and you run the conduit out when you do the EV spaces you'll run conduit to those designated locations and the conduit stays there until it's time to put the unit itself in so that how how long does that take well the the state model ordinance for Ev is very generous and that I think it gives up to like 3 to five years to make them actually usable um and is there one or was there more than one they have four spaces there's only a percentage that have to be even make ready some can just be future entirely but they're they're because the site is fresh they're just going to put in the conduit now it seems to make them make ready but the yeah the state ordinance is quite liberal right that's all I have for now thank you so if uh an employee had an EV vehicle at this time they wouldn't be able to plug it in it would be three to four years down the road that's at this point they would be strictly ready not able to plug in if we had employeed I should can speak and if I get contradicted I'll live with it but I would suspect if there's numerous employees that have EV vehicles that one will be soon than later to fit the need this point the number of EV vehicles used when you're in Branchville Frankfurt and traversing back and forth to Sparta um is very low in the numbers that are currently out there so the demand for it is not as good what I am recommending to my clients is delay it if you need one go with one but delay it as long as the state will allow because just in the last two years the units the charging units have become every year they're outdated absolutely and currently the model we like to use is a simple 6in front to back unit so when you install it it doesn't obstruct a sidewalk and they need to be installed by curve Mar not at the back of sidewalk because now have a trip so at the curve line two years ago there was a larger unit an obstructed sidewalk now it's a 6inch unit if you have a six foot sidewalk or a 5 foot sidewalk you still have plenty of room to pass behind the EV so I'm encouraging just delay because the units are getting better and better every year go Electronics all right thank you um your testimony was very thorough I really don't have any other questions well Mr Campbell you'll be happy about this we'll be back because he still has planning testimony to give at the end okay uh Mr Campell one question I had just I was unclear looking at the drawing so are all the spaces now 9 by 20s are there any 9 by1 18s being no more 9 by 18s okay thank you majority are 9 by 20s some are 10 by 20s and then some are actually uh in the parallel parking we're using that Penn State parking where you have 10 105 10 105 uh and it's actually 12T wide okay on this parallel park anticipating those trucks that may park there after they've unloaded and done whatever business before they go back to Branchville okay thank you Bill yeah Mr Campbell you're uh like Jones mentioned that your testimony was very thorough I just want to confirm two things one uh the fire lane you did say that you're going to maintain that based on the Fire Marshall recommendation the fire maral's final recommendation is that we strike on both sides the fire lane designation at the entrance for the first 75 ft I think it was my memory was 65 or 75 ft 54 okay 54 feet uh he's going from the RightWay line in I'm going from the cve line um so that is going to be up to the front of the building and it's going to be designated as the fire lane it'll be painted as such it is not the lane going all the way through and um Mr did you you did mention that you did meet with the director of utilities on site no we had Communications with the utility we had multiple correspondents when I first designed and got the septic approval your utility your water company reviewed it and had approved the septic and the Water Service later on they reviewed the site plan and then there was a second comment about it missing that the fact that I'd already got and then they corrected that statement and concur with what we're proposing with the work service how long do you expect the project the project to be for construction to start construction or to to take for duration of time the duration of the construction project we would hope it would be less than a year and are you going to speak later to building materials in the architectural design or someone else we have the architect to be presentating and the same to be later testimony for activities within the building business operations we have Mr okay um just quick question the uh garage doors the loading dock areas are there entrances adjacent to or nearby that I wasn't able to looks like there's two right gar door having man doors jent to I'll have to defer that to the architect but my anticipation is that there'll be M doors readily available in proximity I know there's a man door at the first door here yeah and I'm uncertain as to whether there's a man door at the second garage door because close and proximity to and if so which if it's confirmed is there any bards or safety measures uh protecting that in this particular case the primary entrance door to the back which is adjacent to the garage there's a sidewalk and a curb yeah which offsets it so I don't believe the B is appropriate and we'll actually I'm sorry I got to stand corrected my site plan does designate where the Mand door is which is approximately uh maybe 15 feet or 10 feet off of that garage to the right of the generator gotcha that man door would be the sidewalk out to those lower parking spaces all right thank you thank you um thank you for your thorough presentation and um I am the Le days on from the environmental commission and so I'm looking at your response and and what we wrote to you and I'm comparing the information um so in regards to the variance request um you are aware that this property um that you're seeking to develop sits on top of the headquarters of two watersheds So you you're aware that it sits directly on on top of the um the Wallkill and and the pollen skill and that it is adjacent to a critical wildlife habitat area that is designated and I'm also referring to the integrated report um from the highlands it's funny how we can look at a site and we can glean you know such different information um so I just wanted to point that out that it has a riparian Integrity score of high and in both of those areas for the Wallkill and the pollen skill and that 84.3% of the selected area is still designated as critical wildlife habitat area perhaps endangered or a corridor um is what they're talking about and that it is within a 300 meter buffer of ver pools and that underline all of that wonderful gravel and um glacial deposits that is almost as good as plants in uh filtering and recharging our aquafer we're talking about carbonate Rock areas and um and they're Limited in what they can do to remove uh pollutants so um so the Land Management Area total of 1.3 Acres or 58.1% um um we're in agreement that it is within a Lake management area in your report you say that you believe that this lot is within the existing Community Zone um I'd like to go on more than just belief and actually find out you know um where where when I refer to my believe it's the the mapping that we had put in as the exhibit in response okay and recognizing that zone that was the Zone I quoted earlier um And in regards to that those points you bring out they're important to all Florida and they're appreciated and why I introduced this whole application tonight starting with 2003 when this concern was brought forth and I went through 2003 and the story of the subdivision and creating these lots for this use specifically to emphasize how back in 2003 the municipality the applicant and later in 2018 the municipality and the applicant recognized these certain conditions that you bring forth and by doing the subdivision the way they did and proposing the development on these lots to this intensity they felt they were addressing it and are best addressing those environmental concerns while at the same time providing a need for the Industrial and Commercial developments that are in the Ed Zone and recognizing that this is the end of the Ed Zone as you go from Demus Road through 15 all the way through Park Lake Road until you hit the recreational fields and they took those aspects into consideration when they pursued this Regional Basin approach right but since then I think we know a lot more about how we need to take care of the environment and we have a lot of changes such as climate changes and weather changes that we were not really um addressing in policies so so I you know I've heard your testimony about the um catchment basins for instance just as an example that these are Regional and they can um take uh so much water from all of these different developments you've made along the Aaron way and and supposedly cleanse it and then recharge our aquifers but the fact of the matter is is that nothing cleanses water as well as glacial deposits and the plants that are now the popler trees that are now I drove by there today growing on this lot 16161 lot five okay so and then each one of those properties that are along Aaron way there's been an allowance of a variance 10% 18% more than 40% and now we're continuing that pattern all through the Ed Zone at the expense of one of our most precious resources and you don't know that there's a problem until it's too late with those catchment basins so so I I cast out on on their ability to do what nature can do right up against White Lake right underneath where the two major aquifers meet the wal Hill and the pollen skill you know it's just again and again variances and variances in that area why not just go with 40 % and cut a little bit of your you know impervious surface okay so so that this is what what I see happening we have different perspectives I know I can tell by your design and your landscaping and your you know your care of making sure that that natural plantings are are placed in Rain Garden I even read something about a a rain roof excuse me but I just don't um I just don't see that taking the place of protecting our our aquifer our Germany Flats aqu aquafer which you know is an njde uh Community water protection area those well heads there and how far are is the new development from a well head a protected well head aren't they supposed to be like 300 ft from from Wellhead and how far is this this um development from that any other questions I can answer if you like I would love I would love to know the answer because I couldn't find it today well what I'm going to refer to is A2 and I do thank you for those comments because they are what we went through in 2003 and we Revisited in 2018 with your Municipal engineer your board engineer your board planner and we recognized these aspects when this was developed in a sense recognizing that we're surrounded by development and this is the end of it as you go Aaron way is the end of the Ed Zone and this is where this scheme came up to make it Regional let them instead of building another site another acre and a half impervious on the pwn site distribute that throughout the other lots and allow them to have it to answer your question A2 has some of the Pomer tubes and the monitoring Wells over in the proximity of the water company lot and I I'm making reference this as the monitoring Wells because whether it's a moning well or the portable water well it's still a well and with me make sure I get the correct scale we are approximately 600 feet from those monitoring Wells on lot six to the corner of the property on White Lake Road or Park Lake Road so going from the monitoring well to that corner so I understand at 300t we are significantly further one of the reasons that this lot was selected was because of its proximity to that recognizing your concerns see you said in um one of your responses that um the Lots along a and way Lots 1 2 3 4 14 18 19 20 and 21 um I'll have more than 40% um of impervious cover I just wanted to verify that with you that's correct that's okay every one of these Lots developed within the subdivision were exceeding 40% and that was established at the initial subdivision as the intention of this subdivision being El to have more intense development on each understand I summarize that chart in response to your planers report and I felt important that the board understand this is the way this development was initially designed and it was the intention of the development as a Cooperative means between the public uh offices and the private developer okay and that um I might not sorry but this 48% is the least out of all the properties developed okay um but there are some that have like 18% impervious covered also within that I'm just verifying that with you on Park Lake Road or on Aaron way I I I don't have your list with me but it's my my list sites lot 14 18 19 20 21 one and two combined three and four combined and the lowest one of the bunch that are on Aaron way is uh Lot 21 which is 48.2% okay oh thank you okay [Music] um all right well I think that um you've answered my questions and um I do understand um your scheme for capturing the runoff but again I think that you and I and you know also that there's no way if the aquifers here become damaged that you can pump water out of the ground and clean aers they're trying to do that in the the West now you can't you can't clean them once they're degraded right you realize that that's a aspect beyond my expertise and I couldn't comment to it I wish I wish we could but once the deed is done that's that's that's it and also so um you know there's a lot of accumulation here of variances through time and I hope your idea works the state of New Jersey believes it does in their bmps they've been wrong practice of storm water rules okay thank you though I think that that leads right into my question of with the whole storm water measurement plan you described there I know the big thing right now is the the new state standards um sport has been a town that's been under the higher standards said oh you they're not one the ones that got added thrown into it that are dealing with it but um I guess my question is do all of these uh all the stuff you have with the cleanouts twice a year the way the way the uh uh the basin's maintained all that conforms with the the new storm water standard for the state and the most current with what we're proposing is not just 2018 but my analysis and my storm water report takes into consideration the July 2023 standards that was my question yes and the rainfall intensity curve uh factors that are applied I appreciate your guys' attention to detail no no questions for me okay Mr chair I have one quick question I hope it's a quick question so uh with regard to to uh Miss dunbar's point with the with the variances the one lot that that you used for the recharge the that 40% that would have been used if it were to be developable when this was originally planned what was a square footage on that that would have that could have been used at that 3. ACR correct i' be perfectly honest with you I didn't okay so my question then becomes with all the variances that have been given given over time is there any calculation as to how much additional impervious coverage has been given to the rest of the complex and is that less than what the impervious coverage would have been on that site at that point so exactly what this chart would do that I summarized in response to the report the every lot was designated at 50% purce okay in to design the pond M so if a lot was designed in 48 it didn't use its full allocation if a lot used 49 it did not use his full allocation correct but if a lot was developed at 58 it used well over so if a lot was designed at 57% as was lot 14 they did an additional storm water basin in order to accommodate the additional percentage on their site on their site specifically so if you go directly opposite go to lot 14 lot 14 is 57% purpose and they had the storm water basin paralleling Park Lake I believe a portion of it paralleling Aaron way so they did additional storm water basin and additional storm water mitigation on their own property for that extra 7% like okay so I'm sorry so just just to kind of recap so there has been no diminishment of those two basins in that one lot for the entirety of the complex the the recharge has been good since this was constructed from the beginning meaning the allocation of each lot and using not just the I mean the water the water recharge in in in the current and active basins has been has been fine and there's been no issues since it was constructed had on that particular base on the Regal base was when CP was doing the review CP Engineers was doing the review for the compliance Mr Owen dyri was working with Mr barardi who built it and dealing with the asil conditions and satisfying the asilt requirements of the Bas to the satisfac of Clark who represents C I'm sorry what year was that again okay just trying to make a differentiation between 2003 2018 202 2 2024 there's been a lot of been aot back and for somewh around 2019 okay and storm water basin was there and was not perfected and turned over for the maintenance to the town until after Mr Owen D the working for anity developer had done the asilt certification and they had waited until the road construction majority of the Lots were constructed okay so that any tax facilitation that ran off were cleaned out of the pond and set up for turn over to the town although the property had previously been turned over to town 20 years and this was again done through supervision of that time year okay thank you for clarifying sorry I don't have the EXA no that's fine just one clarification we keep referring to the way the subdivision was designed and approved I don't think a copy of the plat was included I think the resolution was included from the 2003 approval 2006 approval I'm sorry um did the plat specify that impervious coverage the the final the 50 the 50 the intent you keep saying there's an intention that each of the Lots would be developed to 50% which is was it was it approved as part of the subdivision on the plat or was the storm water basin simply designed to that level the the subdivision was approved that it maintained the 40% purish cover otherwise we wouldn't be here for Vance so so the subdivision kept the Ed Zone requirement okay so that every lot as they got developed was able to come to this board and this board would be the regulator to make sure that if they went over 50% they were controlling the 50% or if they were looking at something where there was adverse impacts along way in history that they could correct at that time so the ordinance for the the requirements under the major subdivision had some deviation from the Ed Zone such as rear Ys yes and the yes the 75 foot yeah set back you notice the distinction between the Ed Zone and this particular subdivision correct so there were certain aspects about this major subdivision that were recognized to be unique to the land and they were Incorporated in the zone requirements for the sub yes there was a decision by those professionals I made reference to many times to keep it at 40% so that we had this situation so to every applicant that came in so the stor go through the necessary proofs set wonderful that's that answers my question so basically the storm water basin was overdesigned just in case okay thank you thank you okay so I'm just I'm going to do uh open up to the public and then after that we we're going to take a a quick 10-minute break if we can so any questions from the public relative to the testimony given okay so see you on why don't we take a 10minute break um the one thing I I probably should have mention at the beginning so um we we've got a few we got a bunch of stuff we have to get through tonight um including we got to get through uh we have an executive session and we have uh I want to make sure we have time for public comment and some some updates So the plan was to uh end testimony at 9:30 tonight um and then we could just I have to set up a plan for a follow on meeting or something like that okay okay thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e morning um how long have you been with the company what is your title what are your what is your role and responsibility okay uh just a quick thing I've started on February 7th of 2000 came in as a welding supervisor after three months became production manager which then evolved into operations manager so working on my 25th year is is that microphone on yeah it doesn't sound like it is maybe we just tap the head make sure there we go there better better thank you uh want to start over or no that was fine okay and your role and responsibility uh as operations manager now I have responsibility of everybody out of the office basically so I have 24 employees so at our 17 Ridge Road building I have manufacturing and warehousing so all those employees we have job descriptions we're family-owned uh so that is all my responsibility they making our part uh with a quick note baringer its name itself has uh been in business since 1864 up until this day there's only been two owners throughout that company so the existing family of today so that's pretty impressive to have a company that long and only that many owners were in a uh third generation right now going through so again to have business lasting that long and and evolving uh I came aboard and we're doing extremely well me as a new person into the company and we just continually to grow though every day so I've you know seen 25 years of growth um I keep going to the owner and say look you know we we need more space we need more space and we came up with the building that we own at 22 Gail Court that was a new building that was built in 2000 uh the tuque company uh built that we bought that from them um IAI and inherited a tenant that was the Miller brother so Sparta uh two young wrestlers built their business they have a tenant there uh but we continue to grow and we need space and that's why looking to put up the next building so I can expand our warehousing together to be able to make room for my manufacturing to make that more efficient so that's a good segue why don't you describe for the board briefly sort of what baringer does what what it is they do what you and what you plan to do in this space sure and you know generally the operations of how this space will work okay uh baringer is a manufacturer of our own component and it's a pipe support clamp so everybody here would get a chance to see if you see a backo an excavator skid loader um it has hydraulic systems on it so either hoses or steel tubing and our clamps are what's uh in place securing these lines you could go to farming equipment and there's chances are that our equipment is on there our clamps are holding that equipment together goes through all the way to uh offshore drilling rigs uh again there's we're making the clamps that that support all the plumbing that's on there uh to uh windmill so now up in there there's large gear box is spinning up in there our clamps are used to secure the electrical um the gear boxes there they have oil cooler so again now Plumbing so our clamps are used that go into the food industry so if we had a food processing plant uh most everything you'd see in there is stainless steel tubing right clean application our clamps then meet those criterias and it's used there a pharmaceutical building so vast variety of our clamps are being used in uh used worldwide uh by allowing us to uh build the building I'm able then to take 22 G Court which is a warehousing facility Implement that into the new one make our new changes as far as getting into a little bit more of the computer aided in our warehousing so barcoding scanners to make things more efficient to help uh the baringer company you know continue to grow continue to stay in business for many years uh and combat just the rise in cost of being in business itself uh so then that would allow me the second stage is to revamp my manufacturing at the Branchville location to again to make that more efficient and again help help the business continue to grow as as we have been throughout all these years you won't be doing any fabrication or assembly at this site what is your plan at this well no fabrication that that is correct no fabrication so gentlemen if I can I apologize so the folks at home can hear if you could pass the mic back and forth so I can hear the question that's being answered ask it again you could just answer next one I'll get you uh the wareh new facility would be the warehousing there so there's no manufacturing we'd be able to house all our products that we've made uh and we uh the employees there have a job title as a picker Packer because they're picking parts packing into the airs orders would come in uh we pick them accordingly to how the quantity is pack them how the the uh customers requiring them to do um we schedule uh shipping and they're shipped out of that location just as if they are 20 deal 22 G core and that Ridge Road as of today and and the last question I have is just uh hours traffic that kind of thing what what do you see uh at this new site okay uh hours operation 35 that's standard um if opportunity for overtime that would go as early as 6 in the morning sorry traffic oh sorry traffic yep we have we ship so we have a FedEx standard FedEx truck and a standard UPS truck that service us two times a day typical morning and afternoon and then we have various trucks that would come in and take our shipments and or deliver items to us okay I have no further questions but I'm sure the board of the professionals make okay Catherine I have no no questions for this witness Dave uh the only question I had on the clamps that you referred to are these clamps to support these pipes or are you talking about the clamps on the end of like hydraulic hoses these are all pipe support clamp so if you had a hydraulic line going across this table it would be a clamp that was secured it could be welded in place for the application it comes apart the TU would lay into it it goes back together uh they could be bolted in they could be suspended so it's always just something that's surrounding that plumbing so which primarily and mainly support clamps that's exactly so back and bulldozer you'd be with the excavator is moving back and forth typically there's two lines that's going to make it move up it's going to move it back two lines those devices whether it's a steel tubing or the flexible hose you'd see our clamps are a support device so they go on there they grab it and they're supporting it okay thank you okay all right bring it back to De Justin I'm okay nothing I'm fine thank you what's the typical flow of the Gil court and this proposed new Warehouse going to be of either packaging or employees back and forth uh if once they're set up so we have the the new facility now up an operation the racking would be there all the stuff there I'd have approximately 10 employees there um that would be my typical warehousing shipping location then so I would have approximately I have the UPS trucks that come in there two times I have the trucks that come in the either dropping off or or we're using them as a shipping truck um four to five a day just like they are now um a very trucks either box truck or a tractor trailer any any there was some talk about employees going back and forth from each building does that include deliveries and Pickups from Gil Court to Aaron way yeah what I would anticipate is is for our typical deliveries that we use now we have a typical uh on- ton pickup truck that's a rack body like you see landscapers uh use small dump truck that's our largest truck so if we had to to shuttle some parts back and forth typically we would have employees there they're already stations at their job the only time I'd really have anybody that would move back and forth is I had to fill a spot maybe because of vacation or a sick day or something like that or uh but my my employees would all go there the intended use for the sported then would slightly change because I need to incorporate put all of my warehousing in one to help it make more efficient than multiple locations you mentioned overtime goes to 6: am so that would be after the 5:00 P p.m. typical day ends to the next day at 6 a.m. uh no sorry they they could start early so 8 hour shifts 8:30 to 5 they can start at 6:00 to pick up a overtime for us got it thank you very much that's all I have joh I don't have anything thank you I'm good for the moment my questions were answered too thank you l no I'm good for the moment thank you right I'm all set okay and I I have no questions so let me open up to members of the public any questions I did if you could just sorry Jennifer dereck's tap into Sparta uh I just had a quick a couple quick clarifying questions based on what you were saying so can you just clarify what's happening with the Gale Court facility is that going to stay status quo or are you changing that because of the new building or is the new building just new warehousing new building take care of H Court would will say essentially move into their of what we do today I'm able then to use that as an overflow so I may be able to continue that as a warehousing storage to be able to take advantage of buying more product have a little more buying power up my inventory be able to have that as my storage space just like it is so there would be no no change in what you would see there now as far as um it wouldn't be getting busier it wouldn't be anything ex so it'll be basically overflow from the new facility staging area if we have stuff like I say if we have stuff that I can able to manufacture and or buy at a higher quantity take advantage that way we make things more efficient that's where I would do and then shle over into the new location in the picking packing Zone so the picking packing zone is in on Aaron way is the place where you said there will be 10 employees correct and the Gail Court will just stay status quo yeah okay that's all I have thank you um R Orton I did have a question so not that I want to ask I don't asking you to ask for a variance but I would like to know how many parking spaces do you actually think you'll need at this property actually in place to make sure you never have to park on the street but it the way it is right now I have 10 employees that can operate this because that's how many I have right now I can take 10 there with this added space that I have to make things more efficient I can continue with 10 I'm hoping though we stay I I've been there since 2000 we've done done nothing but grow two 2008 when there was a economy we exceeded the growth in 07 we've done that ever since that's that's something to be very proud of as a company so to answer that I'm hoping that yes we continue to grow I have added employees throughout these years um I'm always excited to be able to make things more efficient not to take a job away and never do that just to make things flow easier that helps me the way I describe to my employees is the deeper The Roots grow for baringer the more stable the more stable the company is that we work for and baringer has done that for the employee they give back to us they do very well so I'm hoping that answers that but I'll gladly answer it in a different way or in no that that that answers but um if if we were to say to you could some of these spaces be it's called banked but it really means if the implementation of the paving of some of these spaces could be deferred to a later date and only in stalled if determined to be necessary by the township engineer or by you and Mr Campbell or your engineer uh is there a number of spaces that could be you know just what's called banked this deferred for future implementation may I comment on that Mr C yes and I've worked in conjunction with the baringer and hend stainer operation and we've looked at just that aspect we did not want to come here with multiple variances we wanted to come here with one variance and for relevant to the site thus you have the parking stalls in counts CC with 10 employees and anticipated efficiencies even if that doubled to 20 spaces and two customers you would still have more than adequate and their double the parking required if banking was considered I would take and I would consider banking out this entire bag and sidewalk and eliminate bases as I have designated 28 through 41 and that would then yield the 27 spaces more than adequate for the proposed use more than adequate more more than adequate because adequate might be as little as 12 I mean that's that's and the future and and it's part of this Mr van Orton because you also are trying to increase efficiency of the automated warehousing and automated um storage so to speak yes correct I may add too uh we don't sell to the general public so I don't have off the street people coming in for purchases right there's no V very few visitors or correct right we would have like a vendor or somebody like that go typical there but again the typical off the street uh we do not have uh at any of our locations so you know limited that way and and over at gilc court if you had to estimate how many parking spaces do you think you use uh on a daily basis or for our employees there is probably within that you always have more parking spaces than you need there right correct okay thank you Mr Ben Orton and Mr Campbell what would that give us oh I know Mr Campbell this is a good question then if you did that much what would the impervious coverage be okay way ahead of me okay reserve the right we could probably go to the architect if you want to come back with Ellen we alen has to come back anyway for the planning testimony I don't know whether we want to go any further yeah so yeah we we we unfortunately we do have to have a hard stop at 9:30 tonight um so Tom what would what would be we should carry to a date certain I didn't know what the chairman was planning for for this next case next hearing on this matter um can we look to Dory for some help on this one uh right now we have two applications that will be heard so this will be our third on the August 7th August 7th correct 2024 they only have really one more witness with some follow well Allan has to follow up on some things I think we heard of the bul Allan's planning testimony be right okay so Mr chairman I think you could try to slip them in on the 7th but you can decide that whether it's in your we never know whether somebody will from those other applicants will carry because they want to um perhaps I'm not saying they will but let's let's try for the seventh if if that works for everybody okay so we're we're going to carry the um baringer site plan application uh to August 7th 2024 at 700 p.m. at this meeting room there'll be no further notice is put my answer till yeah that's that's fine I'm sure it'll be very precise thank you gentlemen I did learn time thank you very much thank you much appreciate it thank you have have a great night okay thank you okay so just to move through the agenda I want to try to get through everything and then maybe start the uh the exe ex session around 9 uh 9:45 so we have other board business does anybody have any other board business that you would like to bring up okay I don't I don't have any myself so seeing none we'll move on to updates uh so typically we' go to Town Council uh Deputy Mayor bed is unable to attend tonight but I'm sure he'll provide us an update on August 7th uh environmental commission I have I have a little bit of an update for us tonight um our um at our last meeting which I attended was on July 11th and um we uh had had just a couple days previously our open space planning meeting in space and react Recreation and we had gone through with them goals uh and and the goals I want just wanted to share with you are okay so um number one protect Sparta's sense of place number two maintain high water quality number three conserve remaining open space number four preserve natural and cultural resources and number five support exemplary re recreational spaces so um we discussed those you know so we're formulating those and then um another thing that came up during our discussion was is that we found some preserved land but we cannot find it documented and what I mean by that is in the early 2000s cluster developments were very popular and along with those cluster developments like over in the um where the Skylands golf club is they also have land around that that they preserved as part of that whole project and so we have about I'd say about eight different locations in Sparta that are these cluster developments that have set aside preserved land is protected but we can't find the documentation so far you know so that that was interesting I'm sure we will it's just that nobody knows where it is for the time being um we went to Sparta day and we had several people sign up for the Green Team and we're working on right now a couple of things one is a municipal tree replacement ordinance so we're trying to get the wording right and and see what makes sense for Sparta with that one and then also we're doing research for um alternative vehicles for Sparta vehicles um so I have here a document that is electric vehicle resource for local government and Drive Green so we're going through all of these possibilities for Grants perhaps or to gradually replace Sparta's Fleet um with more energy efficient and environmentally friendly Vehicles so so Neil's working on that and I guess that's that's about it a lot of good stuff thank you you're welcome uh just a quick update on the master plan uh we met I I think it was the uh 17th of in June where we discussed the need to develop a Time phase plan uh Gant chart or similar with the with some steps so we could use to track our progress and an expecting completion date make sure we're staying on target um Katherine samard gave us a primary overview of a community hub web page that she developed that's going to include a survey and it generate a lot of excitement and some positive feedback I think from the people that saw it so uh we'll be meeting again and we're going to pick up the discussion on those items when we meet okay um relative Pak um I don't know if if there's any updates uh we'll try to get one between now and the next meeting unless anyone has anything that they'd like to uh add uh to tonight um if not minus plan subcommittee Mr D right yeah we met uh earlier tonight and we had three new applications come in within the last 10 days one of which we voted on tonight two of which we're waiting on for some more information from the applicant before we can uh start having a conversation ation regarding them and um we also had another uh couple things that we're going to try to decide on before uh our next meeting and we'll have an update regarding that all right thank you okay so uh before we go into executive ex session let's go right to open to the public for matters that are not on the agenda and not relating to her hearing on an applicant so Jenny sure I appreciate it um regarding the minor site plan subcommittee uh are we going to get minutes from that we we we've discussed this in the past that it's an understanding that the ordinance requires it so want take that want me take that I'll follow in any details that need okay so uh so we we have a set that we approved at the last uh the last meeting and um based on how we've done this when we issue on a regular basis those were always attached to the um the minutes of the meeting that they were that they said they were approved at so um we we got to we need to come up with a plan to catch up on the minutes and get those get those out there you're going to sit on the sub subcommittee minutes because we don't have the regular meeting minutes or can you just release them let's let's let's take a look and see if we can get some minutes for the 621 meeting for our next meeting if not we we'll have that discussion I understand your point and um um so I think thank you for that consideration and then just regarding your executive session I know you can't speak specifically but what about about affordable housing affords you the um exemption from open attorney client privilege communication that's what's stated in the I understand that is there a litigation regarding no no but there's advice to the government to the board regard attorney clim privilege communication you're familiar with it from other matters I am is this of education and yes the attorney can have attorney client privilege communication with a board in close session about General matters that involve attorney Clinic communication including and we've highlighted it affordable housing because this is important based upon a new statute A4 that was adopted by the legislature that was my question I appreciate the answer thank you thank you Jenny okay um So based on that um we've got a resolution 2414 which if approved would authorize the attorney client privilege communication related to what was talked about Tom is there anything yes so you're going to it's a mo I'll help you with a motion it's a motion to go into close our executive session pursuant to sections seven and eight of the open public meetings act to discuss matters of attorney client privilege communication including in general and affordable housing the matters to be revealed to the public upon completion of all litigation and appeals and the removal of the neigh confidentiality is there such a motion thank you I'll second and a roll call roll call Janette Burke yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes Justin Canalis yes celest Luciano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes chairman Ronde yes and Mr chairman do you expect that anything will be announced after the closed session I I do not I think we'll probably come back go go back to a public session and then we'll Jour from there thank you I think that's what I expect too but so basically we will be in closed session end the Clos session go back into open and journ the meeting so yes thank you Dory if you could so Jenny since you're the last person left thank you for coming out tonight and uh e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay yeah stop we're on okay okay so I guess I need to make a motion to go back in a public session I'll make a motion second roll call who was that second I'm sorry Le BL and roll Callet Burke yes Christine Dunbar yes Vice chairman Bill enr yes Joan Ferman yes Justin Canalis yes celes Luciano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes and chairman rendee yes okay um unless does anyone else have any other business if not I'd like to get a motion to adjourn motion I have a second second okay can I do all in favor Tom y yes yes that's fine let's let's do a roll call let's make it official roll call please D the motion that yeah yeah okay Jette Burke yes Christine dunor yes Vice chairman Bill andr yes Ferman yes Justin caneles yes SL Luciano yes Ernie rad yes Mike Sylvester yes chair R yes we are adjourned thank you everybody good meeting tonight