take notice that action will be taken on the following items at the regular council meeting on Tuesday July 23rd 2024 in council chambers Sparta Township Municipal Building 65 Main Street Sparta New Jersey the time is 707 uh the regular meeting has now opened all Council meetings are now live streamed and can be viewed at the following link www.youtube.com spart wp/ streams adequate notice of this meeting was provided to the public and the Press on January 5th 2024 by delivering to the press and posting on the township website a copy of the notice uh Madame clerk may we have a roll call councilman Herzberg here councilwoman Quinn here councilman chello I'm here Deputy Mayor blumetti here mayor Clark here may we all rise to salute the flag please I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the rep for which it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all so the reason why it looks more beautiful here than normal is because we do have the sparta Women's Club here and so that explains why it looks so good and uh it it is my honor to uh read a proclamation to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the sparta Women's Club so I will read the proclamation then I'll ask folks to come up for a picture 75th anniversary of gfwc which stands for the general Federation of women's clubs of Sparta's Township whereas gfwc Sparta Women's Club is a member of the general Federation of women's clubs founded in 1890 and the old largest nonpartisan non-denominational women's volunteer service organization worldwide with 60,000 members in 3200 clubs and whereas gfwc Sparta Women's Club is a member of the New Jersey state Federation of women's clubs of gfwc organized 1894 and comprised of 6,000 members and 165 clubs providing opportunities for Education leadership training and community service and whereas gfwc Sparta Women's Club grants annual scholarships and supports vile of Life named top Community Improvement project in New Jersey Veterans groups domestic violence awareness Daisy n Heights senior citizens veterans groups soldiers Christmas soldiers Christmas stockings Reese across America Sparta VFW Memorial parade Nami ma manah house house literacy Volunteers Sparta Library Family Promise Sparta Community Food Pantry Mar missionaries Operation Smile newton- free clinic cookie candy project jwc wish tree can cancer center Newton hospital St Claire's Hospital weekend bag project amanual Cancer Foundation Sparta VFW Sparta Elks and donates to local State and National Charities and whereas gfwc Sparta Women's Club is celebrating 75 years of service to this community through its distinguished History of devoting Time Talent support and treasure to make a difference in the lives of others one project at a time and now therefore be it resolved by the township Council of the township of Sparta that we hereby congratulate and support the gfwc sparta Women's Club in recognition of the 75th Anniversary Council wishes to send best wishes for the club's continued service and dedication to the community in the decades to come so thank you very much for all your service I think that when you read an entire paragraph of all that y'all have done it's just the reason why Sparta is such an outstanding Community is it's because of the women sitting in front of us and others who couldn't make it tonight so thank you so much our community would not be the same without you you make it vibrant you make service to others uh an important Touchstone for what you do and I'm just very much appreciated I know everyone in Council is as well so thank you very much thank you so much I wanted to introduce our president Susanna Lee and uh hi and we have something to read this was written in 19 49 the sparta Women's Club founded 1949 and it was written by the first president of the sparta Women's Club a glimpse of Sparta in those early years the sparta Women's Club is located in beautiful Sussex County thank you in the mountain and lake region in the northwest corner of the state of New Jersey the population is 35,000 and the principal industry is in a state highway enters the county from the south and winds up and around wooded Hills until at Sparta it divines divides one branch continuing North and the other West at the junction of the roads forming the Y lays the town of Sparta it is an Old Town 7 miles from the county seat of Newton clean white frame houses line both sides of the single thorough there accented by an occasional large boarding house only two new buildings have been added in the last 30 years the brick Veterans of Foreign Wars meeting place and the town hall until recently Sparta hibernated in the winter to arouse in summer to play host to the hundreds of City people who came to enjoy the cooler temperatures and the many natural diversions 25 years ago to the left of the stem of the y a development company flooded a valley between the hills and created the largest privately owned Lake in the state Lake Mohawk houses were built around the lake and on surrounding Hills and sold on the club plan for summer residents as the years went by the character of the development has changed until today over half of the Lake Community is permanently occupied it is from these two areas that the sparta Women's Club draws its membership and this was written by Mrs Robert D Gibson clothy first president of the sparta Women's Club you very much for that reading uh I think it's kind of appropriate in light of you know one of the topics up for today is a a master plan revision which causes the town to look back of you know where where they were and where they want to go and so I think it's only fitting that you read something from 75 years ago so thank you and why don't y'all come up and we can get a picture get another picture you go first you go second should get interesting hey Neil you might want to just move the group back a little bit so you can all fit this things pretty good with that I asked it's a draft I'm getting some I'm gonna get it to you guys this week and you'll get a chance to read it look this way girls it's everything and com [Laughter] thank you thank you byebye thankk you so much thank you we lose Dan good luck take care yeah here she's a big tennis player yeah and she does a lot of like um fashion jewelry that she like get and so she's given stuff' gotten stuff for her for he um was a long time one of the original founders of the local TR limited group in town which is the first one in the state it's like 6 years old now and Joyce and her husband was instrumental in the first few years before me he has so much history about that they come to all the BS and all that yeah so no yeah Jim the keys aren't working I think it's permanent new security the keys our keys AR is office there yeah no they're not yeah you saw my report know secret vote know you've been fired all right now we're on to approving uh certain minutes uh may I have a motion to approve the April 9th 2024 regular meeting minutes as presented I make a motion we approve the regular meeting minutes of April 9th 2024 is presented may I have a second I will second that all in favor say I I I the April 9th 2024 meeting minutes are approved next up are the regular meeting minutes of April 23rd 2024 uh may I have a motion to approve the April 23rd 2024 regular meeting minutes as presented I motion that we approve the regular meeting minutes of April 23rd 2024 as presented and may I have a second please I will second that and uh everyone should vote I think Josh was not present at that one so he should abstain all those in favor say I I Iain the regular meeting minutes of April 23rd 2024 have passed uh may I have a motion to approve the May 14th regular meeting minutes as presented I motion that we approve the regular meeting minutes of May 14th 2024 as presented uh may I have a second please I will second that all those in favor say I I the motion is carried the regular meeting minutes of May 14th 2024 have been approved next up is the manager's report so Mr Jim up could you please provide the manager's report good even evening mayor council and Sparta residents one of the Privileges I have as manager is making uh the firefighter appointments and I'm happy to say I have two more at the recommendation of Chief Chris angelucci I would like to appoint Maria Crespo and Sarah weec as members to the sparta Township Fire Department chief Andre Luchi is confident that both will fulfill and complete the New Jersey state mandated firefighter One requirement and become great assets to the Department Sparta Township will also be receiving an American Rescue plan firefighter Grant in the amount of $50,000 to the New Jersey DCA this award will provide funds to purchase self-contained breathing apparatus units and fireh hoods for the fire department in our water utility department I've been working with our utility director Corey long in providing testing documents for inclusion in the posos class action litigation suit this Thursday with the assistance of the Keith Law Firm I will be officially filing the claim form on behalf of Sparta please be advised that starting on Monday August 5th Main Street will be closed as you make a left off of Glen Road to start phase three of the Sussex County Bridge q6 replacement this is the bridge over the walkill river which is being replaced with a widen structure that incorporates sidewalks along both sides of the bridge the local businesses Mavis Tire and gears and grinds can be accessed from the Glen Road side and Town Hall VFW and the OD Law Firm will be accessed coming from the Town Center side but you will not be able to travel under the route 15 Bridge the predicted time frame of this road closure is December 31st uh of this year fingers crossed I know this a long project that we got going on out there uh with that uh Chief mccar will now read his portion of the manager's report this concludes my report thank you mayor council and Sparta residence thank you manager Ze thank you mayor thank you Council on July 2nd the sport of police department assisted uh with the Lake Mohawk Country Club's annual fireworks celebration as always the police department provided Public Safety and assisted with road closures as well as the heavy vehicle and pedestrian traffic for the second year in a row we have the assistance of the suss County Office of Emergency Management from the sheriff's department with their Incident Management team and equipment in additionally this year we had our partners from the Morris County Park police with their bomb detection kin I would like to personally thank both sus County Sheriff Mike and his team for their assistance as well as the moris County Park police and their Kines for their assistance uh the police department had recently been awarded two grants one the clicker ticket and two the move over Grant clicker ticket campaign took place from May 20th through June 2nd and Sparta Township uh police department was awarded $7,000 for overtime patrols to promote awareness and enforce seat belt and child restraint violations the New Jersey Division highway traffic safety offered a Federal Grant to bring awareness to enforce the Move Over Law the law requires approaching vehicles to move over to a lane or slow down and be prepared or be prepared to stop for emergency vehicles tow trucks and disabled Vehicles sporta Township was awarded $7,000 for over overtime patrols and the grant is taking place from July 1st through September 30th sporta Police Department's annual junior Police Academy is kicking off on Tuesday August 6th through August 9th uh we are expecting a full class this year uh with recruits from grades 4th through 8th and some of the daily activities that they will be involved in during the academy are Marching obstacle courses demonstrations from the New Jersey State Police teams unit uh Medical Aid demonstrations from our local EMS and fire firearm safety and awareness motorcycle demonstrations we have a landing from uh the Northstar helicopter there's going to be physical fitness training there's going to be a motor vehicle crash reconstruction that we're going to demonstrate to them the polygraph unit from the New Jersey State Police will be coming we have escape room setup the New Jersey State Police bomb squad uh detection unit will be coming out and doing a demonstration uh a drone presentation by uh Sergeant Guido uh several different K9 presentations the recruits will be U trained in CPR and AED use there will be a crime scene set up for them virtual scenario and this year is the first year we're doing it we're doing a class trip to the Morris County Police Academy uh where they're actually going to see a uh actual police recruit class during their uh fysical training portion in the morning and then get a tour of the facility and then they will be going over next door to the Morris County Juvenile Detention Center for a tour uh so we're happy about that and the last day on the 9th there will be a full graduation ceremony at 2 pm I would invite the council to attend if you can make it and that'll be at the uh Mohawk Avenue School what day was that again that is going to be August 9th the graduation Friday August 9th thank you if anybody wants to stop down during the actual activities let me know again it's August 6th uh through the nth as promised I think a lot of you seen um the Ral Council meetings I have uh talked about doing our crash study uh we completed phase one of our crash study and I know uh Jenny DK's taping spart has done an article on it um and our study of that phase could be found on our website under the uh spart nj.org under the police part um this first part of the study lists all the crashes that occurred uh for the periods uh January 1st 2021 through June 15 2024 um as you can see there's a lot of Motor Vehicle crashes in town takes up a lot of our time and you can see the different areas in town where they have occurred uh we are currently working on the second phase of the study it's going to take a while um and the second phase will show the actual cause uh of these crashes so uh once we have that we will also publish that on our website for everybody to say if anybody has any questions you could get a hold of me and I'll explain anything that uh that needs uh last for tonight I would like to acknowledge recent promotions within our Police Department I'm proud to announce lieutenant Thomas Snider was promoted to the rank of Captain so Sergeant Joe Antonello and Frank schm were promoted to the rank of lieutenant and officer Scott elig Steve Guido and Tim lot were promoted to the rank of Sergeant I'm very confident that these team of uh leaders will will uh show their leadership and lead by example throughout our department we'll be having a uh formal swearing in ceremony on August 30th at the Sparta High School and I'd like to invite invite the the council out to that I'll get the information to you and as always we appreciate the council support and our Township manager and uh management support and that concludes my report thank you great thank you and um thank you manager Z I'm I'm actually very hardened to hear that we you know it's now been a pretty steady stream of appointments to uh the fire department I know that that was you know a concern and it's I'm really um pleased to hear that we keep getting more people uh for that which is such a service to our community and um Chief mccarrick thank you for the um the crash report I think it's very helpful as as I told you you know directly um I think there are policy implications from that and I think it helps us to make more informed decisions about all kinds of things um based on that uh crash report and then I look forward to hearing about the next phase in it but I commend you for taking such a diligent effort in generating these reports that are tremendously helpful like we we've already spoken about the annual report uh which was very well done um and in this another crash report I think it's it's very helpful and informs a lot of what we can do here so thank you you're wel sure right vote to approve it oh yes may we have a motion to accept the manager's report I'll make a motion we accept the manager's report uh may I have a second please I will second it all those in favor say I I I the manager's report is approved mayor before I move on um is the microphone working that's I don't see the normal mic is that a microphone there right here okay do we have a microphone if we're going to have a presentation later at that desk oh we have a handheld one okay we'll have to use that then I see when this but we're set up for a presentation there anyway I'm sorry keep going okay thank you all right we are now at the first uh public comment period of the evening uh this is limited to items that are not on the agenda uh so probably before you step to the mic you may want to take a look at the agenda items if you see something on there that you want to talk about now is not the time uh this is again for items that are not on the agenda and we ask that you please be mindful of the five minute limit thank you and just state your name part of New Jersey about a month or so ago when I've been working on this for over 5 years I have over 3,000 pages of documentation I've been writing about Mohawk industry's aop polymers the mayor said I encourage folks to listen to people with actual expertise in this area not someone with an ax to grind I don't know where that came from I've been working on this for 5 years if it doesn't like Po political preferences of some members of the Town Council well mayor some of the documentation I have goes back to 1958 that's when the well was drilled for Sparta High School Sparta High School open the 1959 and that's what premised all this to start is to look to see what was going on I went to a 50th year reunion and it was a picture of five girls three of the five were dead worth girls on dialysis she still was in Sparta three days a week the other girls dying of weird cancer well there was no hak on High School in those days there was no Len Valley High School everybody came to Sparta so I started digging into it yeah well maybe I shouldn't have document February the 3rd 2023 Fifth Fifth 5-year review report from a polymer Superfund Site document number 64207 here's a picture of the building that you're talking about you can see it's the only building down in Station Park and uh they say very nicely on page 12 of that report soil Vapor intrusion was V identified as a potential exposure pathway assessed since 2007 and it's a lot of nonsense there's currently a building overlying the plume area with the site related exceeds the respective V to organic chemicals however this building is used for storage only and not occupied down maner would tell you that's false you got Town employees in that building and what fur is it when they did their testing when the original report came out in 1984 they said that the the plume was moving in a Northerly Direction Northeast Direction which is down the walkill river if you will well when they did their testing and send that report not one test well showed a in the green they were all in the red okay now we'll move on EPA turns it back over to D said up everything's fine really March 28th 2024 Sam Bon head Joe Noak matter of fact to and and town manager will tell you this the town did not get a copy of this right Mr Z I don't believe so remember I show y somehow you were left off the mailing list amazing and it goes on to say in their report soral Vapor intrusion wastified as a PA potential exposure pathway assess since 2007 and there is an existing risk flip a couple Pages more and it says are compounds of potential Vapor intrusion concern included in the CW answer is yes uh based on the most recent data available groundwater collected groundwater merate action should more test require Vapor intrusion the answer is yes this entire town has been buffaloed since that whole mess started in 1970 those chemicals are still down there in Station Park down to the high school and when we go back to the high school everybody got sick this was done on May the 23rd 1979 done by Jersey analytical they show the Maloney well the Maloney flame is still down there matter of fact the Maloney boy just passed away walk Industries well from Malahide 70 parts per million Spart a high school well 50 parts per million State didn't like that one had another company May the 29th same year SP a high school well uh this time around oh this one had the first one had methyl methyl methyl ethylene Esther in the first well second time they tested it seven days later six days later from Malahide 60 parts per billion was over the federal limit Town Council at the time never said a word spart of Board of Education never said a word I wasn't this wasn't a political thing mayor this is me trying to find out what went on at part of high school back in my day well the more I dig into it your day isn't over because that Park is putting fumes up out of the ground in their report they say I'll let you finish your sentence and then you have to you have to abide by the five minutes I don't me cut you in they say that building is only storage only it's not you need you need to get an investigation going you know if you can take money out of the capital reserve fund for lawsuits take the money out of the capital reserve fund and get a testing company in here let's get going because it's not safe for the children it's not safe for anybody to be down in there thank you mayor gentleman I didn't hear his name he said it your name sir Jimmy castore thank you thank you thank you Jim for all your hard work on this oh I'm going to continue because you know now and I'm not trying to point the finger in anybody it's but there's a problem down there well and it needs to be addressed you just can't because mayor let me say it this way Sparta Township has two aquifers Germany Flats aquifer over that side of town all town aler is right here about 40 50% of the water comes from town from over there 40 50% over here you got a well sitting right down here on Main Street you're drawing water out of and the Plum is across the street and sooner or later all these chemicals that are out of compliance with the fedal government are going to make their way down into your drink of water then what are you going to do yeah I I understand uh that's your opinion uh the problem is that it's contrary it's contrary to the agency that has oversight over this and I understand you can read things black and white that's the agency that said it that has not changed any of the conclusions that the EPA has and you're aware of that right okay and you're also aware that you do you have a degree in environmental science sir no sir I don't okay do you understand the people at the EPA do have a degree in environmental science to you too okay okay not for nothing the engineers that came here that told us we have a severe drought they they've got degrees in it and they were lying to us so I don't think we just take it at face value I think we do our own homework we do our own research we make sure well I I I do know that uh in light of Mr castor's concern uh we have uh hired a Consulting agency to review these reports and to identify uh and these are people with degrees and the same degrees of the EPA who have the subject matter expertise and they too can point out if the conclusions that the EPA reached do not follow from the evidence that the EPA has ESS then that will be under consideration but what we should not do is cherry-pick lines in a report and then to fear monger and to get everyone worked up because those are contrary to the collusions of the EPA for which sir you have no experience nor no background I get that you may have delved into it but what we will not do is sit there and criticize an agency that has done a lot of work on this I've addressed your concerns with David Montoya who's a side admin rator he's aware of it and they haven't changed any of the conclusions that they've reached I want to thank you Jim for bringing it forward with all the information um you know I think in the beginning after seeing the sign offs right originally going way back to January um it looked like it was signed off and everything was fine but upon really talking to Residents and getting additional reporting and different things of that nature it did become clear that we wanted to rule out any area for concern and have an additional set of eyes looking at it so because you of your due diligence no no but what I'm saying is your time's up sired byj in the report March says investig so here's the EPA now we have we got two different you know report anything you want to well that's why I'm saying I want to thank you because of your due diligence and bringing it forward the manager has um had an outside company that is looking at the information and going to provide us with information and we have also shared some next steps that we're you know we're anticipating getting the report hopefully soon and we already are you know have gone to jym and with some of our own requests around it but we're waiting to get this report back from an outside company outside of the EPA and the D to look at it on our behalf to be able to go in and look at it so thank you for bringing it forward so that we can be sure that everything is safe Jim I'll let you answer yeah if you don't mind Mr castore and I met few weeks ago and we discussed your concerns and stuff like that uh first off we did uh employ the Stu study of Eco science out of Rockway they're an independent science uh Law Firm that um have four the reports that I had uh um and they are the most recent reports of the area over there and uh they've reported a study on that and I just received the report believe it or not today in draft form uh I do have a few questions of my own that they're going to go back on but better than that the advantage of technology is this proceeding right now is being recorded and I will make sure that they see the proceeding that you just stepped up to the mic and your concerns and I'm going to ask them to address them as well in in the report and then I will present the report to councel thank you Jim thank you I'm Marilyn just remember to say your name for the record6 Huns Lane I look forward to your getting a new sound system for seemed like more than a year and I want to commend Mr Clark for speaking so that I can hear him but others have pointed out the importance of holding the microphone close to your mouth it doesn't pay someone my age to come here if I can only hear mumbling and I really would like to be knowledgeable about what's happening here thank you thank you thank you a new you're in the audience Marilyn so I I'm you know making sure I speak very closely to the microphone but thank you for reminding us anyone else wishing to be heard on items that are not on the agenda okay we are now up to expenditures uh Deputy Mayor would you please read the expenditures for July 9th 2024 yes I make a motion we approve the expenditures for July 9th 2024 1 million 288,000 46954 may I have a second please I will second that all those in favor say I I I the expenditures for July 9th 2024 has passed next Deputy Mayor would you please read the expenditures for July 23rd 2024 yes I make a motion we approved the expenditures for July 23rd 2024 in the amount of 1, 489,000 all those in favor say I I I I the expenditures for July 23rd 2024 have been approved next up we have the introduction of an ordinance uh Madame clerk could you please read the title of ordinance 2412 Bond ordinance providing for the construction of a playground in and by the township of Sparta in the county of Sussex New Jersey appropriating 700,000 therefore and authorizing the issuance of 500,000 bonds or notes of the township for financing such appropriation uh may I have a motion to introduce ordinance 2412 so moved uh may I have a second please I'll second okay we have second uh before we get to a roll call vote uh Mr zap could you please tell us what this uh Bond ordinance is for well as you know we applied for the Green Acres Jake playground Grant uh and it was a size of able amount of uh 500,000 a little more than $500,000 and that was a great Grant and uh Kids Castle is uh the perfect playground to be uh renovated and become allinclusive and therefore upgraded uh and um it's going to cost the town uh a little over $100,000 it's a 25% match uh the uh Engineers estimate was 700,000 uh and the grants for 500 but this is a reimburse Grant so we have to front the money hence the the bond request ordinance here great so it sounds like for $100,000 we're getting a 500 $700,000 playground is that right in all inclusive which is fantastic not only for physically challenged but also sensory kinesthetic auditory it's really it's going to be a great addition to the community I think bym Township's the only other susex County Town that uh received the award okay as well great thank you all right can you just clarify for the for the public the difference between the 700,000 and the 500,000 just so everyone understands the two numbers basically what what it entails is um the total we put in place is 700,000 we have 200,000 that we've already raised within this year's budget that'll be the seed money and and our portion that that we're going to pay and we're doing the bond ordinance for the 700,000 so that we have the availability to get the funds in case they don't pay us back right away but once they uh give us the total Grant of the 500,000 the most we'll have involved is 200,000 out of taxpayers money it's actually a little over 500,000 so it's under 200,000 yeah I mean you're generalizing I get the numbers but it's under so the grant is for over I think it's 575 or something like that or 550 so our investment in it is minimal we just have to take the money out and then the state reimburses us great thank you councilwoman Quinn and uh everyone for the explanation uh may we have a roll call vote on the introduction of ordinance 2412 councilman Herzberg yes councilwoman Quinn yes councilman Chell yes deputy mayor blumetti yes mayor Clark yes uh ordinance 2412 has been introduced and in two weeks we'll have a hearing or no a month we will have a hearing on it next up we are at the hearing of certain ordinances so these are ordinances have already been introduced and now we have a hearing on them um next is it's Madam clerk could you please read the title of ordinance 2407 an ordinance of the mayor and Council of Township of Sparta amending chapter 18 entitled comprehensive Land Management code to update and amend subsection two definitions and item three parking standards of subsection design standards of section 18-5 site plan and subdivision standards right it's now open to the public for comment um Mr Mayor I'd like to read um just some summary points so the public better understands what this is about if that's okay so this is um pieces highlights from a summary of this revision that was sent to the council in their packets back on June 11th put together by uh planning board and its professionals so just so everyone understands what this is about a few highlights uh the objective of this uh proposal is to clearly Define indoor recreational use and to generate recommendations for revised parking space design standards for different types of indoor Recreation uses what parking space design standards mean really is how many spots are required based on the use and the size of the building in the zone and this was targeted at the economic development Zone The pdm1 Zone and pdm2 zones uh there is currently today no definition in the existing ordinance for indoor recreational uses of any size or intensity the only standard for recreation is stated as for karate and dance studio and similar uses which is not very broad this proposed change addresses that lack of definition uh the planning board felt that not all indoor recreational uses have the same intensity of customer turnover and parking spaces required therefore based on the square footage of the the business area as a result it split the indoor recreational uses into three types first is indoor commercial recreation second is health clubs and the third is Fitness Studios and those definitions for each of those types is stated clearly in a paragraph in the proposed change and in the ordinance the uh parking design standard for in indoor recreational uses currently contains requirements that are more restrictive than some of our neighboring towns such as Andover Lafayette Jefferson and uh so this was also a a reason why we wanted to look at this and and make that change just to summarize the the the intent here is to the planning board really wants to attract businesses and we're easily enabled a full use of some of those buildings and Suites in those impacted zones for potential indoor recreational P purposes and clarifying defining and facilitating those different uses is something that we feel uh would help provide uh benefit to Sparta Township residents attract businesses and make it more useful for people of all ages and interests so with that said I just want to give some context thank you okay um so now we have public comment on 2407 so if you would uh just step to the mic and if you have any comment you'd wish to make on 2407 please do so okay seeing uh no public comment it's back to council for discussion and comments any member of council o wishing to be heard on 2407 I just have uh one question do the so am I right that this was to have the parking standards sort of tailored to the particular type of use that was going to be for these facilities is that right yeah and and and first to actually create valid definitions break it out into more specific definitions for indirect relation uses and then for each of those be more specific yep and before this ordinance were were there parking standards that applied overall and it wasn't tailored to certain uses so in some of instances we may have more parking than was was actually needed for that particular type of use was that a concern of the planning board it was a concern based on the types of customers and types of uh recreational uses that might exist out there instead of being lumped into one if you look at it individually we could be more tailored okay that's all I have uh anyone else all right may I have a motion to adopt ordinance 247 I'll make a motion to adopt okay um I'll second okay and Josh will second uh may I have a roll call vote Madam clerk councilman Herzberg yes councilman Quinn yes councilman shirell yes Deputy Mayor buedi yes mayor Clark yes thank you planning board uh for your work I see we have the chairman here we have thank you Dean uh and thank you than you Catherine uh Madam clerk could you please read the title of ordinance 248 an ordinance authorizing an emergency appropriation under njs 40a col 4-53 to finance revision of a master plan by the township of Sparta in the county of Sussex New Jersey thank you uh and before we go to the public comment I do have uh uh an amendment to this they are amendments uh that are not significant but I think it's important to do them now um before we get into public discussion um so what my motion is to amend uh section two of ordinance 248 and to strike the current version of section two and put the following language this emergency appropriation shall be utilized for the revision of the master plan and the work of the master plan committee uh open parens MPC closed parens the expenditure of the afores said funds shall continue to be monitored by the sparta Township Council in conjunction with the township manager and Chief Financial Officer following the expenditure of each $60,000 the township Council shall be provided a status update on the work and progress of the MPC the council May intervene with continued use of the appropriated funds if the council finds a material misalignment of fund utilization versus progress to date so that's how I'd like section two to read the next uh is to uh amend section three so that it reads the planning board is urged to recruit and appoint to the NPC one additional member with Commercial Business and one additional member with farming experience uh these two amendments are based upon input that I've received from certain council members um I do have this in writing um that we will be able to provide uh but again that's the motion to amend section two and section three as read so may I have a motion to amend uh 248 as read I'll make a motion to amend sections two and three as read uh may I have a second please I will second it right and may we have a can have a discussion first a discussion sure uh again the reason for this was there was concern uh about uh whether Council would be was simply appropriating uh what effectively would be a $300,000 line of credit without much oversight um and after having read uh Katherine's uh very extensive report and outline uh there are a lot of benchmarks that have to be made there's a lot of reporting requirements it's a lot of reach out to stakeholders um but Town Council would like to continue to be informed with this and we uh it was determined that a way to build in kind of an automatic update to council would just simply to have it based upon when you expend $60,000 Now's the Time to come to council and tell us what did you do with the 60,000 where where are we in the timeline Etc so we thought that was a way to you know um have continued our oversight and also just keep track of of what you're doing um the next part was there was concerned uh about the uh constituency of the the subcommittee although I know we advertised for this position we got the applications that we got um uh but I think that you know we would appreciate if you could you know do another round to see uh if we can get some additional people from these certain backgrounds but also keeping in mind that the purpose of my position here may not be others the purpose of this subcommittee is not to represent the parochial interest from which you come uh the idea is to have the larger interest of Sparta in mind and so while you may bring to bear your own experience we're not doing this the way they do it in Congress where when they have appropriation bills someone gets to get up and have their own pork barrel line item and they want to make sure that gets Finds Its way there everyone who's on this committee I think has the greater need of Sparta at hand they are waiting to take their own parochial interest and say Here's the experience I have to bear and look not everyone is going to get what they want out of this it's impossible and it's I really um it's going to be a difficult task no doubt but I think if we could have try to reach out to people with these type of experience I think the committee could benefit from them so that's my understanding that's my uh spin on it but I have my other four council members who may want to wish to weigh in and again it's just on these amendments um this isn't appropriating any funds yet this just to amend these certain sections so I'll speak to both okay so section three um that recommendation I believe um and that came from me my initial request was um a member with light manufacturing commercial and Industrial use and the other one was farming and agriculture I think that we keep talking about how integral farming was into the history and how much we'd like it to be part of our future but I think this is a community within our own that is silenced and I think it's incredibly difficult uh for people that are farming right now to be able to do so we want to support that that's our heritage so I agree with the addition of the two um for section three section two does not convey the way it was originally brought forward so obviously for months now I have been very transparent about voicing uh concerns and Reflections and different things of that nature my recommendation formal recommendation was to in following basic project um management skills and and project management in general that the funding be broken up into incremental funding and that at the once the certain I I use the number $660,000 I broke it into five my recommendation and I said when you exhaust this amount of money come back to the council provide an update and we will then following the same way we appropriated the money by majority vote expend the next increment of funding so what this says is after you spend $60,000 that's a benchmark for you to give us an update or a report and then we may intervene we may not intervene that's that's not the point the point is to be able to make sure that we are painfully aware especially given consideration the fact that we are very being very mindful um of the dollars for example and the progression and the fact that the master plan although we we have this amount right now and I know we're getting a a grant I believe also or we've applied for a grant I don't know if we've heard we're getting it yet but we've applied for it um and I think that we need to be also very mindful that there's different things that can affect the master plan there's also different things happening in parallel at the state level whe whether it be for are you not able to hear me can you not hear me can you hear me okay um so whether it be the that the reformulation of fair share housing or the state's reformulation of open space these are all competing things that are happening in parallel that you guys are obviously built into your timeline you're aware that they're happening there's a lot of conflicting things going on at the same time so my recommendation was not that the $60,000 be a trigger point for an update cuz I see from the timeline that you're going to present to us tonight I'm assuming um you know that everything is is detailed and outlined and I'm very happy with this information so thank you because this is also something I was searching for and I've asked over the past months what I recommended be in section two is not that that's the trigger point and we may be able to come in and say okay whatever what I'm saying is when you spend up to 50 or 55 come back to the council um give us an update show us what's going on tell us what's in the next steps are you on track is everything going well or are you seeing you know what it's taken a little longer than we thought maybe we need a little extra money I would rather know that as we're going rather than find that out at the end and now be stuck to have to appropriate again or pull it from somewhere and then everything has to stop until we put those mechanisms in place so my recommendation was in fact to do exactly what the government does all the time they call it tranches I called it increments where it's a majority vote we say okay we've got the $300,000 sitting there it's a credit line basically you're approved for the first 60 and then the next 60 you'd come back and again we'd have another vote that needs a majority to say okay great here's the next 60 same thing um and follow that through the project and again this way we're being very Mindful and also we can identify are we on track are things the way they want I mean look at the rate of inflation even just last year God knows what could happen so we want to make sure that we're staying in alignment and so that was my recommendation um and again it was that it was under the same way that we put together the $300,000 which was a super majority vote that's how we're getting this money tonight you know that's how the money has to be secured that in my opinion is what we should follow when we're expending it it's the same funds so that is a recommend that I that I made um and I don't see it reflected in here anywhere so before we vote on this I want to bring that up and um just so that everyone is aware after I mentioned this at the LA at the last meeting that we had I've been very transparent about my feelings here I followed up with the mayor the day after the last meeting and I also sent correspondents out last week reiterating everything all my concerns um as well and I I just don't see it here so is there a reason why this is not represented in this ordinance yeah I could I could address part of that so I think part of it is representative can I represent right now basically the ordinance is a blanket ordinance to actually set up the appropriation of the funds internally we could do by resolution any guidelines that you want to actually spend those funds but the ordinance is just putting the funding in the place and and we can we can insert anything into a resolution to say that okay you only want to spend 60,000 per shot or so many you know thousands of dollars each month however you want to structure the the payouts um and basically the ordinance is just putting the funding the mechanism putting the funding in place and then what's the funding what's the mechanism in place to release the funding you could you could do that by individual resolutions so you could do a resolution just to say okay we we want to spend only $60,000 a month and then once we get spend down x amount of dollars we want you know we want like justification of all the expenditures made anything like that can be done basically by resolution or emotion or anything like that so you understand what I'm saying I want the my recommendation was to be able to break it up into increments and then as the um you know as the monies are exhausted then uh that we'd get an update from the planning board and by they would need a super majority vote to get the next allotment of funds so basically what you would do by resolution is you would say okay we need we want to set aside let's say $30,000 uh from for a period of 90 days for the planner so then you would do that by resolution we could get a purchase order going for that amount so basically your purchase order would actually be the mechanism of of setting aside your funding so it actually should be like the first thing we do when we do any of these type of things is set your purchase orders in place for the various parts of the project but that's not answering my question about the incremental release of funds based on the super majority vote well B basically each purchase order is approved by the finance officer it's approved by the township manager and ultimately approved by the mayor and councel when when the funding or when when the actual funds are spent but we're appropriating this money under a super majority because it's a bond so I want to follow that voting mechanism through as the funds are released again working with your professionals they should outline what parts of the project need to be done and and put that as part of the the body of it before we start actually you know allocating the funds out okay this is the planner this is the engineer this is you know Interruption before we move on writing I just want to clarify this is not a bond just to to clarify that statement that was made incorrectly eer this is an emergency authorization to put the funding in place because the the allocations weren't known until after the budget was adopted so why don't we to move this along why don't we address the the the issue I think that uh we have is the mechanism by which uh the $660,000 and how this is funded um and so the the issue is whether it would be appropriate or would be uh an overreach of our budgetary authority to say that we have to release at $60,000 in in various tranches based upon what we deem to be sufficient progress my understanding uh correct me if I wrong that could possibly exceed our budgetary authority to do that um well first of all the council does indeed have absolute budgetary Authority in terms of the funds that are uh uh expended by the the township what we're doing here is you're adopting an an ordinance that is going to appropriate $300,000 uh for this specific purpose the revision of the master plan um I I mean you certainly can monitor it to whatever degree you reasonably wish to but if you're talk and perhaps I don't understand the the suggestion I mean if you're talking about having three or or rather five separate emergency Appropriations over the course of this project I imagine you can do it it certainly would be unusual um and and and certainly uh Sam can comment to it better than I but it would be unusual to have uh five separate ordinances adopted for emergency appropriation for this single project that being said during the course of this project after appropriating $300,000 I mean the council certainly can along with the the manager and along with the the Chief Financial Officer monitor the ex the expending of those funds and it can at any point in time uh put a stop on the expenses simply by appropriating $300,000 to the emergency appropriation doesn't mean you have to spend it uh and and that certainly can be monitored by uh your uh your Administration but it also can be uh monitored and breaks can be put on it by the council by the council adopting um you know a resolution that uh that that would put the breaks on those expenditures so and the biggest thing out of all of this and this goes pretty much across the board any person that is trying to get something authorized or get a purchase order in place you need to put a purchase order in place before you order the product I mean number one get the purchase order in place then worry about you know ordering it here or you know having the professional come in here I mean that's the biggest thing upfront you have to stick by nothing nothing should be done until you have a purchase order in place saying that the funding is there and available is that the way this has been done it's the way it should be done but is that the way it was done from the beginning usually sometimes but again it needs it needs to come to me first M I'm the I'm the one to saying okay the funds are available here you go here's your purchase order yeah I would say on a comment too I think if we were to go back five times for special Appropriations emergency that would also raise a question like we dealt with a few months ago well why is this in your budget right so if we're looking for 50 60k each time then why isn't in the budget this allows us to spread it out over five years the 300 as soon as this is adopted the 300,000 will be set aside for anything that needs to be done as far as the revision of Master Plan the the way that we're doing it the mechanism of funding on this is because it's a special emergency authorization we're deferring the payment of that 300,000 over a 5year period so that softens the increase to the taxpayers it's not like we're throwing $300,000 which is one tax Point into the budget at one year now it's spreading it out over a fiveyear period MH yeah and this what's provided for under the statute in terms of an emergency appropriation such as this I mean the statute provides for um a series of uh events under which you can seek an emergency appropriation one of the specific uh items is preparation of a master plan or revision of a master plan and it does as Sam has indicated allow for spreading that over a a five-year annual budget and just the thing too is the individual boards themselves the board members shouldn't be asking for the issuance of purchase orders it should be done by the department head of whatever Department That official is working for yeah so if you you know you go to land use it's going to be the land used administrator that's going to be doing the purchase orders or their delegate underneath in the department yeah I think this you know I know I heard I heard the concern um that you expressed over and over and the amount of money at a time and kind of authorizing it as we go along the way you know it seems to me that the essential point is to make sure that the money is not being misspent or Mis or abused or misused and that it's being used appropriately U all the money is going to our professionals and this way the way the ordinance with their Vision allows the council to intervene and cut off that funding Supply if there is a material difference between the spending of the things along none of us want that right if if we spend 60 or whatever and not much has happened there has to be something to show for that I think where the where the problem comes in with waiting to give out the money each time is that hints that or allows for more of a subjective view on the direction or the content or the um the scope of work that's going into the master plan and that's where there has to be a separation between the planning board and the ML and what the council's to do the council can control funding and make sure it's being spent appropriately but the council cannot intervene they could be updated on content but they can't intervene or make a decision on funding based on the direction that the master plan subcommittee is going in you know what stakeholder meetings have happened what sections are being done first what's the focus areas that has to come from stakeholder input from everyone from the council from Township employees from dozens and dozens and you'll hear that in a few minutes about the draft list of stakeholder groups and meetings and Outreach that content that direction needs to be independent in the planning board so first of all I think this whole thing has been done backwards I think we should have seen the the presentation first before we went back to this ordinance that would have made a lot of sense so that the questions were answered and the presentation was given and we could actually ask the professional um and again I my big disconnect and I am happy to share any email documents mentation that I have sent uh there's been newspaper articles written about my opinion on this I have tried over the past two weeks specifically proactively to try to get all the information that I needed because I was not getting the information that I needed I have a couple different issues with the fact that although we have a great timeline we don't have monetary cost connected to things so things aren't tied together I've asked multiple times to get um a little more of an understanding of how the pieces has come together with regard to this much is going this is anticipated to be this much this is anticipated to be that much um and this is why over a month ago I voiced this concern and this idea to let's talk about how can we set this up so that the money is earmarked the 300,000 is earmarked but we are controlling in drips and traps i y I used I broke it into five because it's 5 years nobody and I sent this email to everybody not one person came back to me and said hey how about three increments or how about two increments or how about whatever for the most part the email was you know um whatever I had to follow up again and again and again and again and again but there's been no back and forth actually Chris sorry wait I'm sorry finish yeah that would be that would be good okay so what I'm saying is I you know if it's a matter of the amount the number or whatever then that's a Comm that should be a communication that we're talking about but I do feel strongly that we need to put some project basic project management behind this and that's being responsible around the funds we have not been approved for the grant yet and my understanding is has our budget been approved do we even have an approved budget did the state approve our budget I I finally got the final approval from them today today they approve approved our budget today okay they've said on it for three weeks but okay so what I'm moving forward with and and I am open to some kind of communication would be nice since it's been over a month but uh I feel very strongly that when you're doing basic project management these are the kinds of checks and balances that you're putting in place before you just hand over a bunch of money with oh they might be able to do this they might be able to do that and I don't understand what the fear is in saying hey we got the money by majority vote we're going to put it aside and then in increments of 60 or 70 or whatever it is when that money is exhausted they need you know we need an up they need to come back and say okay this these are the next steps this is what's going on this is what it's anticipated that we're it's going to be we're still on track or we're falling behind but because of inflation or this or that or that's more expensive or we needed a new professional or whatever's going on because the risk there is if we don't know and we don't see it then we're going to end up at the end of the year heading into another budget year and if the $300,000 gone then where's the next $300,000 coming from we need to be able to plan and I think this is part of being a responsible project manager so given the information that we have and again I really feel like it would have been great to see the presentation before we had the hearing you know during the hearing rather than asking us to vote on this we're not voting on it yet we're just voting on the proposed amendments we can just table that and go to the presentation well I mean that's that's I'd like to read a completed ordinance before I get to a meeting and have a chance to actually understand it and and read through it and come up with my ideas before we're sitting here and having it read to me this ordinance has been out there for the month the amendment excuse me I'm speaking Josh the two changes were just read okay there were read clearly there were minor changes and they to accommodate those two are minor changes to accommodate some of the concerns I want to go back to the six or the five increments of 60k we could make them less frequent and more dollar amounts but I think I think you I thought you wanted it more frequent and secondly I couldn't disagree with you more th% more disagree with you that about the project management comments if you there's a Gant chart that's detailed out there's a process flow map we'll see this in a few minutes there's a four page General steps and detailed timeline overview there's a four page details of documents contents and there was a statement statement of work that Corey and Katherine put together there's a lot of documents here for something that as you're saying is not funded yet so there's a a heck of a lot of content here on project management and rigor and thinking and that went into this so why we take a look at it before can I interrupt this just for a moment um can I can I make a suggestion that we we apply Robert's Rules here and have par ment debate rather than a fleet conversation and go one by one and have it each person uninterrupted individually make a statement ask questions Etc rather than so that we're not talking over each other so my what I'll tell what I'll say right now is you gave us the only we have great documentation and I think it's fantastic um we got this when did we get this Monday no Friday last week or something right okay so I think it's great documentation um the the issue is that in all this documentation which is another thing I've been asking for months there's no money tied to it the only monetary uh information that we got was here's professional estimates of $165,000 but we're going for 300,000 and I said why is it $165,000 on a piece of paper but it's $300,000 and the answer was it's padded p i get that it's padded but I have no documentation in anything to show me what is the endtoend What is included with this $300,000 I understand 160 something thousand is Professional Services I get that but the other almost half of the money is not accounted for anywhere it's just charts and and charts and I get that but I would like to know for example what about the administrative costs what about the staff cost is any of that included in here is this um 300,000 based on Q to Q4 2025 is it time so if it goes into uh 2026 is it another $300,000 there's nothing around the finance part of this that shows any of that and so again I have been desperately trying to work through something where we can get behind this and do it in a responsible way based on the information that we have and the information that we've been asking for for a very long time that we don't have still to to make an informed decision about it and the way that I can do that right now personally is this because you know in the past we've gotten estimates and I outlined this in the email um of between $500,000 and a million dollar to get a master plan done then it was oh it's going to be1 5 then it's 300,000 I do think it depends on time and it it's going to have a lot of affect things that are going to affect it so it might be 300 I hope it is but I we need to be able to plan in case it's not because we have all these unknowns this is why I recommended we break it up into chunks and say okay here's chunk one um come back and then you'll get chunk two and then chunk three and these are the the checks and balances I made that recommendation over a month ago I followed up again um I did not even see this change to the ordinance until I walked in this courtroom at uh 5:40 or whatever 6:45 tonight and that's only because I proactively called the mayor and said where are the changes we've been talking about for a month so I got this 15 minutes before I got here as well so I apologized that I didn't see this and if I had seen it before I would have come back and said this is not what I was recommending okay I think we need to move on we we we get that you don't support the the change uh if you want we can table the amendment until after the presentation and and pick it up again um if if that would help um but I I think at this point we've all unless you know Dan you haven't spoken uh on this and so I wanted to give you an opportunity um also you know you can weigh in on your project management experience um thank you I'll just make a couple of comments and then I think we need to proceed to a vote on the amendment and then we can um introduce or table the ordinance vote until after we see the presentation I wouldn't recommend um so um uh so that $300,000 cost total was broken out into approximately $160,000 for the master plan rewrite uh of which we're going to we are seeking a grant to cover the entire cost of that Master Plan rewrite the balance of $140,000 was the administrative costs required to then review our existing ordinances to make sure they comport with the uh the uh master plan that had that that will have been just Rewritten that's how those $2 amount uh break out but again the the cost of the primary piece of work which is the master plan rear we're we're seeking a grant to cover the entire uh cost of that project um secondly we've worked with these Professionals for many years so I I see very little risk here uh I personally don't feel a need to micromanage them um especially given that this is um a planning board Endeavor not a council Endeavor uh but the introduction of the changes that we made did provide us with some measure of oversight um my opinion I think that's fine um if we break this up into five separate Appropriations rather than just one appropriation of $300,000 uh we would lose the advantage of having to am having uh amortized this expense over five years which would be a bigger impact to the taxpayers so um I not in favor of breaking up the amortizations in uh in five increments uh as the uh CFO explained that we could uh introduce ordinances that would provide some uh measure of some breaks I guess uh uh that we can put on in case we wanted to um pause some of the payments as we get our updates uh that we discussed um that's certainly something we can do later on um the um and the last thing I'd like to make point is that the council does not have appointment authority over the planning board's master plan subcommittee uh we can introduce we can recommend that they add those two Committees of members and uh and uh also recommend that they staff them as we had suggested but uh again we don't have an appointment authority over the planning board's master plan subcommittee so that's something we can't do directly um and that is all the comments that I had Dan just thought to talk about that point I did write it that they would be that it would be a consideration yeah understanding that but we can't tell them you must appoint this typee of person and as it's written it's it's only says it's urged to exactly yeah so it's not we we're cognizant of that um but with that I think we can um put at least the amendment up for a vote and so we will know going forward what we're what we're dealing with um so again the motion is to amend 2408 uh as read uh amending section two and section three can I can I make a suggestion though can we hold off on the amendment vote until we see the presentation that's fine with me okay okay um yeah what point does the public get to weigh in on on this after the presentation after the presentation yeah okay okay so we're going to we're going to pause the vote on the amendment as well as the vote on the ordinance um itself and the public comment okay minutes to put up the screen and you probably want the microphon do you have the microphone here oh was that one oh yeah I can inquire I'll find week a month no I'm not really I can use the mic no I should probably use that yeah it thank you we're winging it here sorry you want us to dim the lights wait I think I'm going to need the lights at least in this portion dimmed for be visible I it's not going to be the biggest screen or the brightest screen so I guess I'll I'll start grab a mic so it's basically just going to be a a rough uh depiction of the document but hopefully it's helpful as a tool to go through this um so first I want to say this this is a Gant chart it's in it's included um as some as a project management tool to basically track progress of a project um and breaks it into kind of different tasks responsibilities uh over a timeline and then um tracks it by where you are along the way um and at the end of this one because it was done in Excel it's you know formatted as a PDF but there's a progress category at the end basically that we can track where we are so you'll see like 50% on the budget discussions that the me subcommittee has been talking about under that section so I'm going to walk through by The Phases so the far leftand column is the phases that the these tasks have been broken out into and then kind of the subtasks like the actual things we're going to do within each of those phases give a discussion um and also just want to note before I jump into that that this was based entirely off of a budget uh you know a full fleshed out budget that was basically these four phases and how all these tasks were broken out by hour by an estimation of how how many hours at an an hourly rate um would be what what each of them would turn into I didn't put that in the Gant chart I have those numbers I do have estimates for each of them um and that's just for professional planning Services uh which is probably the majority of the the services to put together the document the process but um it doesn't capture all the professionals and all the administrative costs in there um but as Mr Chella stated um the there are you know the the budget that was created is about 150 160,000 for the creation of the whole master plan all the Stak holder input all events all subcommittee meetings all the professionals and then that additional kind of padding as I understood it was that there's that's not where the process ends and I'll show that on the Gen chart the master plan is a document that is a policy document but it is not something that um codifies anything so um it it's really just a planning document that lives and breathes but um all of the following actions really will take additional work to put anything in place depending on how it how it goes so as I mentioned I really apologize to the clarity here but um phase one is in kind of an orange red color um it's the master plan subcommittee so it's something that's ongoing you'll notice that Gart Pro shows overlapping tasks so right now some of the subtasks of the masterman subcommittee were to talk about budget and grant opportunities to help pay for a master plan um to look through the scope goals and responsibilities of the subcomittee um and that has an ongoing you'll see kind of a date like July it's been ongoing throughout this year until probably mid August and then those those subtasks will likely be over and that's giving a little bit generous um kind of buffer depending on how tonight goes and how the master plan subcommittees move forward but that's generally um how you read the Gant chart for those tasks um things that are not yet we're not in the midst of um and that will probably happen in August if this moved forward is identifying stakeholders uh identifying kind of Engagement events ways that we're going to engage those stakeholders ways we're going to engage the public through this process um and I just will note you'll see kind of that as a common theme is that the intention of this master plan is entirely to get public input to keep the public to keep it transparent because the master plan represents the community it doesn't represent one group people it doesn't represent the planning board or the council it represents the community as a whole and what the vision is for the future and so it's very important to get as much feedback varied feedback from all different groups because we're going to get a lot of different perspectives probably confli conflicting perspectives But ultimately that's going to get boiled down and distilled into what the document looks like um and it's going to be an interesting ride but um that's that's the whole point of this process so you'll see a lot of that um and then the final task at the bottom are all those subcommittee meetings so we just had a subcommittee meeting last week so you'll see the the today line the big green line was running through one and then there are pretty much monthly subcommittee meetings that are shown up on the Gant chart phase 2A and why it's 2A is because 2A and 2B are probably going to happen in tandem for the most part especially as they kick off so um phase 2A is the start of looking at the master plan content and that's more data driven that's what our old master plan say what does census data say what's some historical data um and then start to get into um synthesizing some of that data into Maps into Graphics that will eventually make their way into the master plan but they're going to inform the public so as we start to create that data it'll create material for meetings for subcommittee meetings for any kind of events um it's going to start to set the stage to have a little bit of background info phase 2B is uh Community engagement so we're we've already started looking at ways that we can engage the community always um and we took some kind of tips and tricks from other towns that have done Master plans in the past few years and found a way to create kind of a community Hub online like a website dedicated to the master plan page to show progress to uh make sure everyone's up to date show what's going on um provide as much info as we can so that it's a hub that no one has to ask too many questions about where things are it's all right there um and that's already gotten kind of started the wheels are turning on that the content's just being tailored edited looked at by the subcommittee um and in addition to that um we're looking at doing kind of a public electronic sub survey um which is also kind of being worked through by the subcommittee to understand what kind of questions we want to ask um how we want to do it maybe if we want to do surveys and phases depending on the kind of information we want um but those are kind of the two the top three things you'll see is like the The Hub the website will go live eventually um the public survey will also go live and be open for a certain period of time and those are not like cost generative things that will cost for the entire time that's that's shown it's really something that's going to have a cost to get it going and then a cost to uh analyze the data from them or any kind of input we get out of them um you'll see kind of those smaller chunks where the words are kind of squished in there but those are estimated ideas of when we'd have like a public session and then a stakeholder event or something like that so we imagine that we're gonna have round taes with like the council members round taes with the police department with the Board of Education with recreational groups with all these different organizations in the town and those will happen probably pretty intermittently some of them will include professionals some of them will not if there's any kind of like farmers markets or booths that the T like a event where there's booths there could be a master plan booth that can be entirely driven by the volunteers on the master plan subcommittee and no need to have professionals the whole point of the Hub too is to have a lot of that professional lingo and uh some of the verbiage and some of those materials so that any of the subcommittee members can point to that and say you know that is our message and that is where all our information is so they don't have to worry about um doing that on their own especially if there's no professionals present they can kind of carry that um and so you'll see those intermittent um stakeholder and public input sessions we imagine going to be frequent we hope that you know as we start planning those things that there'll be a lot of public input um events and individual like I said stakeholder uh roundtables or charettes and things like that um and then finally towards the end uh of Summer next year or Midsummer next year we hope to have all that feedback and synthesize it in a way that we can put it in the master plan and I I guarantee you the master plan will have a whole section about public engagement specifically when events were held when meetings were held who was at those meetings some of the you know overarching topics that were discussed and the some of the feedback that was discussed um and that'll all you know come together it may not be specific it's not going to be an an appendix to the master plan that's going to say these were the survey all the survey responses it's probably going to be in pie charts and graphs and things like that but um that's a it's a huge piece of the master plan to show um all the work that was put into it not just by certain groups but by the community as a whole um um and then phase three is the actual drafting of the master plan so you'll see a pretty lengthy kind of timeline for that because it's going to be ongoing as we get data as we do stakeholder events uh a lot of the information that's uh Whitted from previous Master plans and from this process and from ongoing things will start to get drafted into a framework it's really going to be an outline at first and then it's started it's going to get filled in over time um but there's only so much you can do if you don't have the feedback from the public and from the stakehold olders to really turn those into thoughtful recommendations thoughtful goals um and thoughtful objectives so they'll have placeholders for things like that so that kind of background drafting those subsections it's intended that those go through early next year and then um that's kind of like a three to six month process generally and then that continued drafting is going to be really taking all the data we got into today in in 2024 and 2025 and putting that information into the second kind of drafting stage of the master plan um then towards the end of summer a full draft is anticipated to be completed it left a little wiggle room you know six weeks to eight weeks for that kind of finalization of the draft editing as it circulates amongst professionals amongst groups you know typographical content editing Etc and then kind of a graphic design package so making it look all The Branding look consistent make it look nice it's a document that hopefully will last us a long time so you want it to be well done and presented well on top of that um and then Final Phase for is a very simple one uh hopefully but it's project close and adoption it's a it's just one task it's that this master plan has to get noticed properly has to go before the planning board has to have public comment and then planning board has to adopt it in order for any of it to matter um and then you'll see the kind of the step after that that blue line says project end so the anticipation the estimated time frame is really from Q3 2024 quarter 3 to quarter 3 2025 so a 12- Monon process is how this has been imagined we um it it was not put together you know randomly it was not something that's an aggressive timeline it's really meant to be realistic and reasonable and there there are buffers within each you know a 4- week to six week buffer within each to make sure we have some some um gaps if we need to so if we something gets delayed or something gets can l or something gets cancelled then we have you know wiggle room to then move battery's time probably I don't we can use that one Catherine I think probably the public mic now I really feel like thank you that should be enough FL okay thank you um so that's kind of the the scope of the project again it was based off off of budget with hard hours to a to a rate to put together the full scheme at least for the professional planning portion and within that scheme there are some budgetary buffers as well you know on top of some of the steps to make sure that um it's all captured if there was any kind of hiccups or anything like that um I think that's all I have as far as you know the project timeline the project management um I totally understand the you know the the the way the appropriation is going and the way to want to have check marks and I have no problem uh at least from my perspective of having check-ins with this with the council now at first it's going to be there's not going to be a draft to share but there will be progress to share um you know the way that there are the manager has a check-in there can be a check- in about the master plan absolutely on top of all the other events um and on top of all the other engagement that we'd like to do because I think it is important uh it's a big deal Sparta hasn't had a master plan in 40 years um a comprehensive master plan done in 40 years so this is a big step uh it's it's a document that's going to mean a lot and um it's a it's a you know I think we have a reasonable 12-month process and some places it can take longer but I really think if we stick to our to our schedule we're going to it can be done in 12 months Kathleen the uh I'm not sure if you have the list of the draft stakeholder groups um I don't have that okay um but we have probably I think the subcommittee identified maybe like 20 to 30 stakeholder groups and the intention is we'd look more carefully at those groups and figure out how to group them together and then plan engagement activities based on the group size to see what works best so um you know a a broader presentation with feedback might be better for a bigger group and a round table might be better for you know a smaller group where you can break out into a groups of four or five um with each with subcommittee members or professionals um but there's you know there's endless ways that we can engage the public and stakeholders we just haven't thought through that part yet that's one of the tasks on the subcommittee um so it's probably going to be the topic of one of our upcoming meetings I my recollection from the other night was the seniors you the council members different aspects of the business Community like so Lake Mohawk and so a bunch of different forums for that police fire ambulance all the schools religious groups youth groups uh all the township boards and committees and their Council aons Etc so there's a whole right there's yep even some of the um like industrial or commercial subdivisions like White Lake uh Plaza like they we identified you know I think we were just the tip of the iceberg there were probably more that we hadn't hit too um but really the intention is to invite as many people as possible some may say no some may you know not be they may not be interested but the hope is that we reach out to as many as possible and that they we we engage as many groups as possible and it's going to be online surveys surveys as well for each group so if they can't physically get to a meeting will they have a way to get their so the the survey itself will likely be online it's not teased out yet but it's likely going to be something that's entirely online and runs for just six weeks and hopefully we can share it via social media we can share it via that Community Hub we can share it um you know with QR codes and things like that in paper um we haven't decided if we're going to be able to do like a paper copy just logistically it becomes we don't want to lose anyone's input so to figure out the best place for it whether it be the land use office or or the library but we want to have like one central location if we do have paper copies if someone chooses to take it that way um that we can do that now will stakeholders be able to if they wanted to uh to submit written information to you so if you know if you're a stakeholder say in the White Lake industrial area and there's specific areas of concern that you have you could submit that to the uh committee for consideration technically anyone can submit their feedback on the master plan so um even if we don't engage a stakeholder group they can reach out to us and say Hey you have an upcoming master plan can you consider consider this okay and we'll document that we'll keep that you know as part of this whole process okay thank you so Katherine can you please explain for anyone in the room and anyone watching um you did a beautiful job um the documentation is fantastic um full confidence in your abilities um I think you know your work is impeccable but can we just I want to set the expectation because through talking with different people they have different understanding or interpretation about what a master plan document is so can you just give us the reader digest version to clarify so and then can you please when you're when you've given that if you don't mind explain then so this represents the creation of the master plan but then on the other side of this on the back end of this um which is not assumed in these costs or prices is the implementation of all the ordinances or updates to documentation because that is not done in the master plan so can you just do those two things just thank you yeah um so a master plan is kind of it's a it's a blueprint for municipality and that's a very loose term but it's really it shows where the community is today at the point in time that the document's written and talks about where the community sees itself and what it wants to what it values and what it wants to uh encourage and that is across the board it's not just a zoning document it's not just land use it talks about circulation it talks about housing it talks about Recreation um it includes you know you can include there's recycling elements you could do there's you know the master plan different elements that they have have uh in the ml there's required elements and then there's kind of optional elements but overall master plan is going to talk about anything to from traffic to trash to ball fields to schools it's going to talk about the whole experience you have living in this community and then also like where we see the community going so what's that Vision look like and so as part of that it's going to outline a lot of information but then there's going to be sections that basically make recommendations um as I described it to the master plan sub committee those it lists goals and objectives and things like that that are you know overreaching overarching sorry and then from all the data basically makes recommendations on how to move things forward and I even said maybe um looking at it how I see it as like an action plan of how to move things forward and maybe you break them into um because the master plan is supposed to reach over 20 years maybe you break them out into short-term midterm and long-term goals over those 20 years to see how you get things done and those could be recommendations and an action plan for things like an ordinance like a land use ordinance too or an analysis of a zone or an analysis of a corridor um or it could be to um look into preserving particular property so we have an open space element that's being done right now it may make recommendations to preserve particular properties that are environmentally sensitive based on the data they have uh to look for uh more generally to look for grant funding to assist in that those are some of the recommendations that can come out of it um some more long-term recommendations could be to create you know a Township wide Trail interconnected Trail or bike lane with bike Lanes paths and you know um through the open space and so there may be things that require Capital Improvements that require a long-term plan and design that won't be done in the master plan but because of all the data because of all the feedback from the public or the stakeholders that's something that has been shown to be a priority or a solution to some of the feedback or issues that have been raised by the public so um those don't happen in the master plan they're simply recommendations that are implemented later on either through ordinance or through a capital Improvement or through you know something else so um the master plan is really I like to see it as something that's living and breathing it's going to dictate a lot of um the future based on what's what's there today so what do we see in our past what are we living with today and then what are those Visions goals and objectives to to guide us into the future that's why I want to just set the expectation that the end of the master plan review that doesn't mean that everything is implemented everything is in place because then there's another whole other chart like this that is going to happen to say long-term shortterm and the other thing um I want to clarify as well is if you are going through this master plan review you're looking at the or you're looking at the zones you're looking at all of that um but it does not mean that you are going into the zones specifically at length and detail I mean so can you just explain to everybody exactly what that means in the master plan versus the implementation because I think this is where people are confused yes so the master plan is required or at least the land use element of the master plan which talks about the way land is used in the township presently not how it's zoned but how it's you know developed so it's called a land use map and you help to understand how the town's develop so there'll be a tart a chart in the master plan that basically says you know 5% of Sparta is um industrial these are hypothetical numbers is is is developed as industrial 10% is open space you know 40% is housing Etc so the it'll it'll give a general outline of how the town should develop and then talk about the zoning as well so where's our existing zoning where are the zones what are each of the zones and how have they evolved over time so it'll give a brief kind of History to each of the zones some of the recommendations that were made in other master plan elements or amendments over time um how they're developed how they're developing so give a status kind of of those zones and then that's kind of just the details of it and then the recommendations can be to analyze certain things to better you know working off that data why has nothing happened there why is too much happened there why is there you know Etc so um those the master plan will change nothing about that zoning it will it will effectively um not once it's adopted will not do anything to change those zones to change the zoning map nothing like that but what will happen is it'll make recommendations that basically say look at this and then a future ordinance would be put into place and have to go through the same ordinance process first reading second reading to change any or to change any land use ordinance thank you any other questions for Catherine yeah I think um thank you very much Catherine appreciate all the work that you've put into this very helpful um but I I think now the members of the public if you would like to comment uh again on uh this uh ordinance which relates to the funding uh for the master plan would you like me to stick around if there's questions from the I think that would be helpful if that's okay thank you okay thank you and I will say maybe we can put in some of the funding for an actual screen um we do it it's it's being processed oh okay it's right in the middle of it we for the budget to go and all right we're going to have a screen all right so next time you come Katherine you'll have a screen that's befitting of uh the the hard work that you've done oh I'll sit okay hi Kim null 9 South haywards Road Sparta New Jersey um I wasn't sure if I should speak before or after but I did um tell the Town Council and the mayor um and town manager that I would get back to you with regular updates on the open space plan it does relate to the master plan so I figured now was a good time to also speak about it um so right now the open space Plan update um we've had the public meeting the visioning happened we had quite a good turnout for that meeting um and we were able to do and gather quite a bit of information from the folks that did attend um but also subsequent to that meeting we shared a link so that additional public folks from the public could have input into the open space planning and Recreation process that we're going through um the surve is still open it's been shared on the town website it's been shared on Facebook page and been sent out to some folks on email so we are still collecting that information um right now they have a full inventory of the Open Spaces and they're basically doing um subcategorization of the current Open Spaces that we have meaning like this open space is completely wild this open space is a park this is under consy so that's underway um and we hope to have a draft that will be reviewed by the environmental commission first then elevated to um the town manager and the Town Council hopefully by the end of August um so it's moving forward very well we're completely on track we thought it would take about six months and at the end of August that'll be about the right time um I just also want to say that the environmental commission myself we fully support the master uh moving forward with the master plan and um the open space and uh Recreation plan will fit very nicely um with the timing if that's completed at the end of uh August and then folks can review it at that time um I think that's it and Kim on I right that whatever the open space committee that will be shared with the master plan and subcommittee absolutely it's going to go through a regular process first and then it gets um shared with the um master plan subcommittee great thank you any other members of the public about uh this ordinance hi Mike dine uh Oak Parkway I'm on the masterer plan subcommittee so anything I say I yield to Ron if he disagrees I don't think he will uh speaking about him I've seen a lot of guys run projects He knows what he's doing knows how to run a meeting you've seen Katherine's the caliber of her work I have every confidence this is going to proceed the way it's been laid out she's got enough detail in the financing you can see anything you want to see to some extent this is event driven because you have to get other groups of people involved you never know how long certain things are going to take but it doesn't seem to be unreasonable that at certain points in time the council says okay here's your plan where are you at okay plus or minus 10% looks good to me here's your next thinker in of money here's your approval in my experience that is basic project management incremental funding I I don't think what Neil and the council woman Chris said are all that different you talked about the fact that when you get updated you could decide not to do something or change direction I think she's saying let's explicitly call it a go-ahead with more money I think it's almost semantics but that's just just kind of my view of the whole thing I thought we'd have to argue about the importance of the Min plan I'm hoping that's not not up for debate I hope we all agree with that I'm concerned that we need four votes being very Frank we need four votes to get this first thing pass without that we go nowhere so I'm hoping that Council will talk a little bit more if need be and if there's any kind of open ends or uncertainties I mean I think our the lawyer at the last subcommittee committee meeting said Ron as chairman has the authority to name more people if he wants I think he can name more people if you want so if Council logically wants more th Farmers sounds great to me I don't think anybody objects but it seems to me that whatever Council has asked for is reasonable I think the committee is more than willing to comply with it I've seen a million Gan charts in my day more than I care to think about that one was is really good she explained it beautifully now if you don't have confidence in her in him I mean then we better rethink the whole situation so thank you very much thank you Mike hi being Ry now our 15 Birch Parkway I was just going to say I think this is a really long time coming um I was literally at a college the last time Spartan did this and we have the internet and all the of the things now but I've actually um dealt with land use attorneys outside this area and they just called Sparta the Band-Aid Town meaning that everything was a Band-Aid as far as land use and I I don't exactly know what they mean since I'm not in that field but um I do recall when will hookway and Ernie Hofer were respectively on the planning board and um Dave tro was here and you know they were talking about that section of town on Main Street and trying to keep it Colonial which which I really liked but obviously time moves on I don't know if that goes into consideration at all but I would hope that certain characteristics what I would call characteristics when you're you know jelling down whatever you have to do but I just hope you all come to an agreement and go forward with this so thanks and those will be considered there's a town center design standard U master plan Amendment from 1997 so it's going to be relooked at as part of this process um if not just incorporated as it is if we think it's valid and if I can comment on that I believe um we we may also elect to incorporate a historical commission as part of the master plan and identify some historical properties that we want to preserve and that's an element that we can play with as well definitely yeah and Dean asked your comment for a long time coming I I think it's it's kind of ironic that it's 40 years old and so like any 40-year-old who has a midlife crisis who wants to know where where they are and where they're going um I think we could deem this you know spart is sort of working through its midlife crisis so that's why 40 years so there you go anyone else hi Barbara Gomes um Links Court um I just really wanted to thank you guys for looking into this obviously there's been a lot of work on all the boards and I think it's a great way to move forward um I was six when when we looked at the master so I didn't care then but I really care now and I see how important it is to our daily um decisions and to our quality of life um so I really hope that this will go forward and and we can work together on the future of Sparta thank you thank you good [Music] evening thank you Kathy evaz and uh scutters Road hopefully you can hear me I don't want to touch it again um I'm a bit stunned actually um to be frank listening to the conversation how long it's gone on um some of the points being raised um there are you know in the years I've been listening to a lot of these discussions there are budgetary considerations that are that are rising higher than the level of what is being asked for this master plan and this seems to be an a whole lot of scrutiny for this and I just wonder why so um the I wanted to just take a moment and ask that and um and ask if that can be explained because I'm quite confused actually I mean we have like I said ordinances that are up here that are way more than this that I don't hear being asked for such levels of Gant chart and project planning and checking in and I would just like to understand more about that I did come here with prepared remarks tonight um so I'll go ahead and read that um um for over the last two years at least I've sat and here Here In This Very Room I've listened to both Town Council Members and planning board members past and present talk about revising this master plan I have heard the words re-examination and revision spoken about as both a remedy and a reason that we as a town have been limited in our consideration of development changes as they have been presented as ideas and applications I have witnessed the current master plan being used as a sword against what many feel are the town's current best interests I've heard it used as a reason to allow what is what currently its residents do not want yes both members of the Town Council and planning board have pointed to the contents and vision um of this 40-year-old master plan numerous times on numerous occasions anytime residents and others raise concerns about any development or proposal that they felt was congruent with the sparta of today I have also witnessed wouldbe developers use the master plan as a shield during their presentations and proposals reminding the town its residents and government that it's 40 years old and this outdated vision and is what's potentially allowing them the latitude to build what they want within our current zoning rules as Miss Armand has pointed out this master plan kind of allows those zoning um zoning zones to be changed the planning board even as mentioned tonight has created a master plan subcommittee which seemingly is choreographing an intention and a desire to update this plan with the premise of gathering people who want to be a part of helping to take the steps necessary to revise this plan and therefore the vision of the sparta of today as a member of another subcommittee the Pak I was led to believe and reassured that the work we were undertaking which was similar but was not any duplication of this master plan subcommittee's efforts but instead that our efforts would complement and even support some of the steps being taken as um Katherine has mentioned during future master plan revisions it is time in my opinion to use the revised master plan to fortify to strengthen and to Shield our town from outof character development large-scale proposals that are not lying to the sparta of today and tomorrow many people have spoken up about their love and appreciation of the rural character in nature of Sparta of Sussex County of which we are a part if we are to fully conceive and consider the future of Sparta we understand this master plan plan revision to be a necessary step the current master plan is 40 years old think about the world what the world was like 40 years years ago so much has changed back then there were no cell phones as Miss reinh Hower has mentioned no internet no laptop computers and so many more things that we use today we have evolved at a record pace and therefore our master plan our vision of Sparta must catch up to what today's world is not moving forward with revising our current master plan would be a disservice to this town our County and our current and future residents please follow through tonight and move forward with this step that has been discussed for many years as a way to protect and allow Sparta to flourish and be the Town and County that we love I implore you to inote to vote Yes to fund this work because I feel this is money well spent for our community thank you thank you any other member of the public wishing to be heard uh on this ordinance all right seeing uh no one we can uh bring it back I guess to council now for any additional comments in light of Miss sod's presentation and the comments from from the public yeah I have some comments she made some great points that made me think about the fact that most of the time you know like tonight when we got this new ordinance without seeing it we're not involved in any of these discussions that are being had amongst committees amongst the public so I think it'd be a really good idea to have a round table discussion with the master plan committee with the planning board and the council and have some ideas and have some some input on what the direction should be and what the direction is going to be um you know I would say you guys pretty much didn't take our input in any a lot of the things you've done as far as with the planning board and with the Committees and that's fine you guys won the election that's your right but this is this is the one thing that we have some say over is how you spend the money and I think it's important I think the plan I think this should be done and actually I think there's some really good people on the planning board who do a great job but we are so far removed from any of these discussions and I would like to have that public discussion before approving any money for this anyone one of the big reasons why you know what I want to say something one of the big reasons why I don't know if anyone saw the post I don't know if anyone saw the post where many many members of the public have been complaining the SRD removes anything that doesn't follow their narrative the basically the first amendment is that funny basically the first amendment has been thrown in the garbage did you see the post okay well that I think there's been a narrative spun with Selective comments being allowed and I think the public should know what's going on and they should be more involved so I would like to see that any other member of council want to be heard so we so we still have a a motion was made and seconded to amend the ordinance um I think that's our next step unless there's any more comments no I was just I would add a couple comments I I know um you know again I think we all know this but you know we're we're dealing here with established professionals who were approved and appointed by all of us up here at some point or or reapproved or reappointed and also members of the subcommittee um a lot of them some of them were approved or appointed or reappointed by all of us up here at some point and uh you know between Dory and her staff and Sam and Jim um in Cory Stoner I mean there's lots of people involved in this uh from the township perspective in addition to those professionals that will you know keep their eye on this and make sure this is a high quality inclusive product at the end that there's not a deviation from what we're thinking that it is now and if there's a deviation along the way in terms of the money that's being spent we're not getting our value for it then I'm first one too that will stand up and say we have to readjust something or pause and see what's happening with this um it does not mean I'm not stating that the count Council has uh as a council has the right to direct or influence and content or Direction um I know Katherine mentioned before or I think I did that the one of the stakeholders is the council so the individually not as a group it could be as a group but we have to have a quorum and you know notice it but part of the Outreach will be to the council members to get their input to sit down with them it'll be to some of the staff it'll be to or the advisory boards and committees it'll so that's that's part of the process so that's not going to be where people are going to be excluded not able to voice their priorities and opinions you I I think that the the amount that was put together with the estimates I know there were a month ago detailed estimates um at least from our professional planner about the line items and how that number was uh was achieved you know I think that that's a level of comfort there that those numbers were thought through and especially seeing these this documentation you towns throughout our state and our nation do exactly this process it's a it's a vital part and a component of Township planning that's what we need to do and enables us to to think strategically about our future using that stakeholder and Community input and guided by professionals who we trust you know this is what elected officials what responsible governments and leaders do for their Community when the time comes you know and they Embrace this work with optimism and commitment maybe even excitement and you know I think we have an obligation to to act with that foresight and that integrity and that care for Sparta and this is the time it's been 40 years since a comprehensive look at this and you know we're not going to rush it we're not going to delay it we need to do this the right way and I think we owe that to you our neighbors our friends our families and you to complete and renew this work that really hasn't been addressed uh from a whole comprehensive perspective it's It's Our obligation and it's been 40 years I have um a couple of things as so Catherine can you just confirm for me because when we start getting involved with this whole like you know control and this that and the other thing can you just confirm who adopts the master plan the planning board thank you not the council no okay so the planning board has complete control of the the adoption of their master plan they vote on it correct correct okay um so the subcommittee is an Advisory board that then feeds into the planning board they own that document and approv that document and they um so that that goes in as the new master plan the the issue is the master plan although when you're talking about all of those different recommendations that are coming out of it the master plan is the Visionary statement we all understand that but it has no teeth for change unless we Implement all the recom unless we start looking at the recommendations implementing the recommendations making getting recommendations to maybe uh the ordinance changes for example that takes legal time that takes um professional time whatever so Kathy asked a question I'm going to answer your question be God bless you because you you said we we seem to be spending a lot more money than this and what is the big deal the big deal well okay you wanted you you said it was an excessive amount of scrutiny I think if I heard you correctly it was hard for me to hear you were saying but I think you were basically questioning the amount of scrutiny and the reason why is because this is only a half of the piece of the puzzle so this $300,000 yes at the end you'll have a master plan but that does not represent the entire costs of the additional professionals um legal time and whatnot no no no for the master plan but when you start getting involved with ordinance ch changes specific ordinance changes that's a whole another that is not included in here depending on the level of the changes that are made so the issue is you can have a vision am I correct Catherine so this is the master plan but this does not include any of the outside of when we get the master plan this includes none of the costs for additional professionals or looking at the you know prioritizing hitting the ordinances the administrative costs the professional cost of then going through the process having the hearings doing the background and making the ordinance changes correct yes clarify too that is the 12month process to put together master plan I think I mentioned it I hope I can highlight it that's based on a budget of a of approximately $150,000 the master plan alone so it's less than the total appropriation intentionally um and so it's that's only one portion of it you're totally correct but it's only also only one portion of the appr total appropriation okay yeah I just add in conversations right with Sam and Jim with that the the 300 number the idea was that there would be a buffer on top of the 165 to allow for what we learn along the way and um as you normally do with a project of this size and then also a portion of that above that would be to be in place to execute do some of the execution work as needed so for the fees that come with that to to you know a a new map if there is one or some of the writing of the ordinances if the council so wishes okay I think that's a very important point so just to be clear because there's been some confusion here where it's that $300,000 does the $300,000 incorporate an expense to be spent on the consideration and Drafting and execution of the ordinances that will flow from the master plan I believe so some of it so it does at least the start yeah yeah so um it it does take into account the professional fees that will be needed to be expended in order to implement the actual ordinances and give teeth to the actual master plan and I do want to direct the the teeth to the master plan because the master plan is not just a document that sits on the Shelf until you do something about it that's one part of it a master plan also guides and this is Less Direct and may be confusing so I apologize but when a zoning board or planning board um has an application before it that that proposes a condition that deviates from the zoning ordinance bulk standards uh or the use standards in you know what's known as a bulk C variance or use D variance they have to justify that their that their variance condition does not substantially impair the intent and purpose of the Zone plan which is the master plan in addition to the zoning ordinance but so if we have goals and objectives that say that St that state something they have to come to terms with that and make their case to the board so it does function over time despite not maybe not not directly to ordinance changes until you do those but the master plan does serve a purpose in that uh it helps to you know protect from any deviation from The Zone plan if if it has specific goals and objectives I understand that we I mean you know obviously I've served on the planning board for many years and I get that but the actual changing of ordinances and things of that nature are the second part and again although despite it you know repeatedly I have asked for documentation to support what the $300,000 is that's why I want to ask you the question because I do understand that this is only half of the piece of the puzzle so I am this is why I'm struggling to understand yes I get it this is for this piece but moving forward down the road to really um to really see it through all the way there's a lot of work just as much work I would I would imagine you would even confirm that has to happen on the other side of that depending on the amount of recommendations that are coming out of the the the exercise it yeah it's totally unknown at this point because the amount of recommendations that related to actual ordinance changes rather than what I mentioned before like a design of a sidewalk or you know seeking grant funding those are kind of nebulous in comparison but it's unknown how many recommendations there will be that will be directing ordinance changes the value of the master plan and doing a lot of the background homework and a lot of analyses along the way is that when you do an ordinance change rather than um kind of trying to do it on the Fly Like An analyzing The Zone and trying to justif changes you'll have a master plan to back it up so hopefully that ordinance change will just be about drafting the ordinance and getting the language right and getting some of those standards right if there are changes but a lot of the analysis and background will already be done in the master plan so it's because it's recent you won't have to be looking at a Zone that's 40 years old you'll you know have already looked at it within the master plan so um it'll hopefully move it along and also what is the expectation that you're going to need some additional uh professionals along the way to guide this so the the cost estimate that we got was for three professionals it was for yourself for Tom Collins and Dave Simmons so those were the three so any other outside additional is there any other expectation that there's going to be a need for anyone else engineering or or agricult or not agriculture but testing or or any of that kind of stuff um no because the master plan isn't going to when I say an analyses I mean like looking at information and you know deriving conclusions from those things um Dave Simmons will be part of this process although tangentially because he is an engineer so he has more technical base but the the this is more of a policy document it's usually written by a professional planner with input you know from attorneys and other staff in the township but it's data driven from what we have from facts and history and um other other um factors and so um it's going to you're not going to actually undertake like if there was there would be there might be a recommendation to do a soil testing or to you know look at Wetlands on a certain piece of property or something like that or to better understand something but that would be a recommendation that would not be something that's done along the way it's something that you identify as a priority in your master plan and say hey let's think about this a little further and then you you know figure that out after and Dean just to confirm we are moving the the there is no plan the the professionals that we have right now are the professionals that are going to be working through this master plan there's nothing that's going to happen to change any of that the planning board has decided to move forward with existing professionals as I listed them Katherine Dave and Tom Collins as far as I'm aware yeah that's the plan right now um they were reselected last year but they're going to but we're going to come up with a reorg again in the middle of this thing so what I'm saying is is the anti is the path forward going to be to you know to use the professionals that we have to go through this entire master plan review yes as much as I could say there's no there's no discussions or conversations at all about any changes coming up down the road and Catherine especially Katherine's role if she's going to be leading this and I would think the subcommittee would let us know if they find an area where is out of the domain expertise of your current professionals you'll come to us and say look we didn't anticipate that we would need an expert on soil and we think we could benefit from an expert on soil therefore we would like to include that type of expert and it will cost x amount I think that you know you if you find that you're outside your wheelhouse you'll let us know and and we can appropriate but as of now based on this very detailed chart you feel like you have sufficient professionals that can render a a master plan without additional experts yes and I think the scope that we have put together together is like I said before it's realistic and reasonable meaning that it's supposed to capture quite a bit um it's not supposed to be limited in any way to say let's exclude certain portions of the master plan or think that it's supposed to be comprehensive um as we look at it today so uh but if that did come up I think it' be a discussion point for the master plan subcommittee to consider what that might cost or how much longer that might take and they could make a decision to um you know move forward with that or not for the request at least okay um and just I think that you know so we can get to the vote on the amendment um after your presentation um I mean I think the the way that it is is written provides the sufficient safeguards that the money is spent in a way that achieves the progress that you want um I think the concern is you know obviously that um we want to have some oversight about how the money is being spent but also there is oversight right which uh Sam pointed out that there will have to be purchase orders generated for this work so for example if there he sees a purchase order for say backpacks and sunglasses uh for the sparta planning commit subcommittee he's probably not probably going to reject that right because that's not consistent so there is oversight built into here and I don't want people to get away with the there's not oversight there's lots of layers of oversight here um also I think to the point um I think it's well taken about the scrutiny um now we did spend 30 times this amount on a salt shed and what we didn't do is say we're going to give you appropriate you know when you get the foundation laid come back and we'll let you know if you can build the rest of the salt shed no we appropriated all of it with the trust uh and the excellent presentation that Mr Zep gave uh that it was needed and the funds would be adequately spent um and and so I think that uh we don't I think as written um this provision allows for sufficient safeguards it allows us to uh keep track of the progress and I would encourage uh the members to to adopt it the council members to adopt it but let's let's say things honestly the Sal shed how long did that take us to approve there was a lot of scrutiny on that so don't say there wasn't scrutiny that's just not true we did was it six months we did not stage the building of the salt shed with up lately progress reports but there was there was and we're doing that here scrutiny there was oversight into what was going to go in the salt shed that's overreach I'm sorry what I I think why don't we go ahead and and and and and and and go to the the motion to amend 248 amending section two as read and amending section three as read so may I have a motion to amend section two and section three it's already been made and approved and second end okay so may we have a roll call vote would it help to reread it one more time for anyone or just given that it wasn't printed out on the original one I'm happy to read it again just okay so the way section two will read is this emergency appropriation shall be utilized for the revision of the master plan and the work of the master plan committee open Parn MPC closed parns the expenditure of the aforementioned fund shall continue to be monitored by the sparta Township Council in conjunction with the township manager and Chief Financial Officer following the expenditures of each $60,000 the township Council shall be provided a status update on the work and progress of the MPC the council May intervene with continued use of the appropriated funds if the council finds a material misalignment of fund utilization versus progress to date section three will read the planning board is urged to recruit and appoint to the MPC one additional member with commercial ex uh business experience and one additional member with farming experience so those are the amendments uh as read and Madam clerk may we have a roll call vote councilman Herzberg no councilwoman Quinn no councilman sheero yes Deputy Mayor buetti yes mayor Clark yes so the amendment has passed and now we are up to the uh actual ordinance as amended is that right correct and so um may I have have a motion uh to approve ordinance 248 as amended I'll make a motion to approve 2408 as amended may I have a second please I will second it uh may I have a roll call vote councilman Herzberg no councilwoman Quinn abstain I don't I still no councilman chello just a clarification is that a no or an abstention uh I'm going to abstain because again I don't feel like I have the my concerns have been addressed in a timely manner to make a decision here tonight clearly councilman shello yes Deputy Mayor buedi yes mayor Clark yes 248 has failed because it is a uh ordinance requiring authorization of uh funding so it requires a super majority so you need more than uh three you need four so it has not passed so I'll make a motion I can make a motion right right now Tom around this no it's well we we defeated the ordinance you mean the motion to else motion to to do what so we we tonight voted to update the the ordinance on the Fly correct to amend sections two and three voted to amend the ordin the proposed ordinance and both of those were voted down no the amendment was passed Amendment you don't need two3 for the amendment passed but the vot we just took a vote on the ordinance as amended right so is it not possible to put an in a um to make a motion to change or amend it to try to pass it a different way or is it done now we can have discussions now I mean you can resubmit a an ordinance future but the ordinance as as amended has been defeated the ordinance as amended has been defeated okay and you know you you can always propose an amendment that would satisfy your concern so that that would be one possible motion well that's what I'm looking to do so I've been trying to do this for over a month to get something put in place that does address the concerns so that we could say yes and what is extremely frustrating is I have been unbelievably transparent about this I have voiced everything publicly in email through meetings I have gone above and beyond to try to get us into a position where we can come to consensus and move forward with this and it's incredibly frustrating that we just get the ordinance 15 minutes before the meeting tonight with the Amendments that were made well over a month ago and it's unfortunate because I do see a lot of value and I have been a supporter of doing the master plan over again but in my opinion based on you know what I've identified and again if anyone is interested in seeing the email that I sent a month you know what I sent a couple weeks ago I'm happy to share it you can listen to my public comments um it needs to be done in my opinion differently with the finances and we need to be able to talk about it and have those discussions so I'm hopeful that we will have discussions and be able to come back to the table with something in a written final form and I hope that we have the round table as well I would agree having having a discussion with the planning board with the committee and coming to an agreement moving forward what would we discuss um what would we discuss since there's no approval to do a master plan were saying that if we had that discussion if we were part of a discussion that that maybe we'd come to an agreement on an ordinance moving forward what would be the content of the discussion would I mean I think with a mon we won't have disc I'm just curious with a month to prepare I would think one would have the language that would be necessary um unfortunately but we don't have that language well we could have made a motion to table it we we just there could have been a discussion with you on this acceptable I've been bringing it forward and who's my discussion been with there's no discussion the problem I've been pushing you sent me an email finally on Monday you haven't picked up the phone you also have the doc all the documents right all the things the the Amendments that the amendment tonight was based solely on your feedback trying to make you more comfortable wait let me finish so adding the two urging and trying to get those exact two um new members that you wanted was added for because you requested them adding that the $60,000 check-ins with the possibility of the council to then stop money if the the money wasn't being spent properly which is that seems like the goal to me is make sure that the Appropriations is not being wasted right and it was used according to the project plan we saw and that seemed we tried to meet that one so those two were made for you specifically had debate I think that we should go back rethink table this having a discussion like adults do come back to the table rather than voting it down I make a motion that we already voted down table procedural question of our attorney um can we reintroduce this thing in this in this legislative calendar or does it have to wait till next year no you can reintroduce it you can reintroduce uh the ordinance as soon as your next meeting okay thank you in August all right I think we need to move on yeah so we can bring it back I would suggest those who don't like the language because apparently they don't they voted against it to to take pin to paper and write the provision in a way that you think is addresses your concern and you do it's done from my you need to write it in a way that you can incorporate it into an ordinance um having General thoughts is not sufficient um you will have to be very specific and you can make a motion and have that added that could have been done tonight uh it was not so we will move on to 2410 and maybe we'll address the the master plan at first so um so9 EXC 249 you skipped over 9 249 yeah we're already okay yes so Madam clerk could you please read the ordinance 2409 an ordinance appropriating the total sum of 2,500,000 from General Capital Improvement fund for funding various Capital Improvements or purposes by the township of Sparta in the county of Sussex New Jersey and it is now open for public comment on ordinance uh 249 is there any member of the public that wishes to be heard on 249 right back okay no all right no all right uh back to council for discussion and comments um Mr Zep what is uh 2409 and what's it its purpose again these are capital Improvement projects that we uh distribute between uh the parks department the DPW the fire department uh this is uh the larger projects uh on the DPW side this is mostly your road Improvement Paving program uh there's also money allocated for a necessary equipment in the Parks it's for Parks improvement in our parks and for some of the equipment for the parks department uh the fire department it's also equipment for them usually these are the bigger items uh that that cost more money um this is the same amount that we've been allocating which I have always appreciated from the council uh I don't know for past years 10 years it's been several years many years that it's it's been this this 2.5 which is is good and it supports uh the infrastructure of all the Departments and enables them to provide services for the town and actually $2.5 million today doesn't buy what $2.5 million bought you 10 years ago and absolutely right cuz uh I'm being reminded the costs of uh full-size snow trucks right now have uh increased exponentially uh and um we're getting squeezed with the uh uh mandates on electric on electric trucks and vehicles and whatnot it's driving the cost up uh on on on everything and um I've already had discussions with Public Works where we may have to rethink on how we do our snow fighting and and services with the fleet because uh it it really is incredible uh cost now uh you can't buy anywhere near what you used to buy and if a member of the public wanted to know um what the Capital Improvements that are how that money is being spent how would they do that once it gets posted we allocate it I know that uh usually I'll base Sam I'm going to just last year we uh appropriated roughly 1.4 million for Road improvements and that also includes drainage and pipe work the storm water catch basins and and whatnot um for the equipment was 400,000 for DPW uh Parks gets uh about three I think they're about 350 370 this year for Parks um so much goes to um building in ground improvements you know any improvements we need on the building here or any of the other buildings um parks I usually I think there's a split this year I moved some of their money to another department that needed it but they didn't need as many uh Field improvements as they had in the past so I think they're about 370 this year and I moved some of it to another department that had a little bit larger project and I mean basically uh the way the ordinance is wrote is just general improvements and it gives us the latitude to shift the money to a different department that may need it um if they've have you know a larger concern or something like that and and so it's the responsibility of each department to determine what uh the money should be spent on based on their experience and professional background basically when I when I put it into the chart of accounts um I'll have one title for the for the total 2.5 million but then I break it out in Subs to like roads roads equipment um BNG um Parks fire police okay thank you I try to I tried to give everybody a little piece of the pie okay any other member of council wishing to be heard on 2409 okay uh may I have a motion to adopt ordinance 2409 I move that we adopt ordinance 24-9 as read uh may I have a second please all will second uh Madame clerk may I have a roll call vote councilman Herzberg yes councilwoman Quinn yes and I just want to let everyone know as well if they want to know what those costs are check the itemized budget councilman shello yes deputy mayor uh Bluey yes mayor Clark yes ordinance 249 uh has been heard and adopted next uh Madame clerk would you please read the title of order 2410 an ordinance appropriating the total sum of 500,000 from water Capital Improvement fund for funding various water Capital Improvements or purposes by the township of sport in the county of Sussex New Jersey uh open to the public now for any comment on ordinance uh 2410 Mark Scott nine poblo Parkway on April 10th the EPA lowered the standards were past in water past are forever chemicals on the 16th of April Joe Biden and Cala Harris with lots of fanfare introduced it and and said they were going to protect the water in the country and Sparta's water is one of the 100,000 municipalities Across the Nation that exceeds the limit now we I believe we have 10 parts per trillion in Lake Mohawk 11 parts per trillion in Sparta and the limit is now four parts per trillion what is the council doing about that we're doing a lot okay what I very we're very well aware of it and as you know they just lowered that regulation all right so nothing's changed other than their their their parameters and we are doing uh we have a mass study on sampling each and every well and what they are testing for in pasos uh I don't know if you missed my uh manager's report but um we have also uh included the township and the water utility in a posos class action lawsuit which enables us to collect monies out of this class action lawsuit because we are providing them test results of all our wells and right now we're also doing a a full master plan water study so we can make the best judgment on those Wells that exceed those limits is it best for us to include expensive filtration systems and I'm sure you probably read about that because it's millions of dollars to include these these new filtration systems to um address those posos levels or would it be better for us just to close the well or would it be better for us to uh drill a new well and and and get find cleaner water um these are all going to be dressed in this master plan that we're working on right now with the water utility because it is very important and I think that we're doing everything that we can do um keeping our eyes open for any funding opportunities at the same time uh but I think we did a real smart move getting in early on that class action lawsuit uh because we got in early we're already a member of the lawsuit and and um that could Bode very well for us um it's a very expensive process to address these PES I'm really curious to see how other water utilities and the private water utilities handle it um because um this is a a big thing but yeah you know what they've recognized these forever chemicals and it's an appropriate name um and and there's uh I think you're going to see a lot more about it but um just take note that we are doing everything we can to do that and I will be providing updates on how we make out with this thanks Jim will we be planning for the future with with regards to this oh yes as I said we're in the process right now we' we've tested all the wells and you see that in your consu uh your CCR reports the consumer confidence reports which are posted and you get those and that's where you probably got those numbers from all right uh those are always done it's a mandated test requirement so we do those right now I'm waiting for results of of the study because we're in the middle of it of uh the hydraulic study basically all about our Waters our wells and our tanks it's funny this dis ordinance for $500,000 will be quickly applied because we just did a study on all 14 of our holding tanks and four of them need some uh renovation so we're addressing that but like I said because of the cost of addressing each P exceeding well um we really want to be smart on what we do with that and do we want to really invest a lot of money on maybe a low producing well that's exceeding the limit or maybe we have a high producing well that does really well and it's close to the parameter and we do apply the proper uh filtration unit on there so um we are we're preparing for the future and you know we're going to uh uh adhere to all the regulations we're you know that's that's what we're we're going to do we're going to have to do but um we're top of it all right great so uh I think one of the good producing Wells is the Germany Flats aquafer at this point in time yeah there's Wells out there will you be planning for the 13 million truck tires that will be on 60 Acres of pavement out there if the diamond ship proposal goes through what we'll be monitor in rubber tires 13 million tires on how are you getting that where where is that information coming from Mark you just do the math there's no ten do the math there's no do the 2,000 trucks per day 36 a day 18 wheels on each truck you getting the TR 13 million tires where are you getting 2,000 why um one question I had Jo related to this I think will any of the $500,000 be used to address some of the posos problem I get that it's going to cost way more than $500,000 but as you know the council approved the $2.2 million Bond earlier yeah uh some of the money out of that is already being uh allocated for the posos work okay with the the water utility got it okay and it's all being uh accounted for because we may be able to use it in the suit and and we may be able to recoup the cost okay got it okay thank you um may I have a motion to adopt ordinance 2410 I make a motion to adopt 2410 may I have a second please I second it may I have a roll call vote Madam clerk councilman Herzberg yes councilwoman Quinn definitely councilman chero yes Deputy Mayor blumetti yes mayor Clark yes uh ordinance uh 2410 has been uh introduced heard and adopted uh next up is ordinance 2411 Madam clerk could you pre please read ordinance 2411 an ordinance of the township of Sparta amending the salary ordinance for non-un Union and Union employees all right uh it is now open to the public for ordinance 2411 any members of the public wishing to be heard on ordinance 2411 all right seeing no one uh it's back to council for discussion and comments any member of council have anything uh they want to add to 2411 okay uh May I have a motion uh to adopt uh ordinance 2411 I move that we adopt ordinance 24-1 as red uh may I have a second please I'll second uh may I have a roll call vote Madam Clark councilman Herzberg yes councilwoman Quinn yes councilman shirell yes Deputy Mayor bledy yes mayor Clark uh yes so an an ordinance 2411 has been introduced uh heard and adopted we are now at the second uh public comment period this is limited to the resolutions so if you have a public comment on the resolutions uh please uh come to the microphone again limited to the resolutions Mr Mayor trust you'll be removing resolution 9-8 from the agenda yes adding in this one probably consider a break at some point too yeah okay okay seeing no one um before we get I think we've been going for almost over 2 and a half hours so if uh if there's a a necessity break I think it's probably called for so why don't we take a 5 minute um necessity break and then reconvene uh by uh 950 for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e um there was no public comment on the resolutions um I would recommend that we uh carve out uh all the resolutions except 91 and 92 so um I would make a motion uh to approve resolutions 91 and 92 I move that we approve resolutions 91 and 92 uh may I have a second please I'll second it all in favor say I I I I uh resolutions 91 and 92 um may I have a motion to approve res resolution 93 which is a resolution of Township of Sparta County of Sussex state of New Jersey extending the due date for the third quarter 2024 tax bills I move that we approve resolution 9-3 as you just presented uh may I have a second please I will second uh and before we vote uh Jim iser or Sam could you just tell us why this resolution was necessary Bas basically statutorily there has to be le at least a 20 to 25 day period from the time that we received the tax rates to where we could actually um extend the due date so this is going to allow Diane and again the county hasn't released our tax rate yet so we're still waiting on them but it's a 20-day period before we could actually charge interest to anybody that would be delinquent past that 20 days so at the time that we actually get a rate struck and it's certified by the county that that date's going to float but Dian needs that date in place so that she can and she'll she'll actually fill in a number once it happens but she needs it in place so that she would be able to charge delinquents okay so will taxpayers have 25 days from the date that the county uh provides the tax rate is that I'm just trying to give an idea for when the taxpayers can expect to pay their third in a good World usually we got our tax rate in early part of June late part of May and the first quarter was due August 1st and you had your 10day grace period after after August 1st but again no reason why I know the state has changed some of the funding formulas for school turned around after the school rates were struck they've they've added more money onto C certain School budgets because they said they needed more money and meanwhile we don't have a tax rate at what point would we have to consider a uh an estimated Bill going out uh basically it' be something we have to look at if we get into the next two late two weeks I would probably throw out an estimated rate and um have to send out estimated bills as is is right now I'm going to hold back some of our payments on on this because I want to make sure that we have sufficient and cash flow to you know make the payments that we have to make thanks okay um we've had a one a motion in a second uh all those in favor of resolution 93 say I I I resolution 93 has passed uh may I have a motion to approve resolution 94 which is resolution chapter 159 in J do Grant SL Main Street a motion that we approve resolution 9-4 as read uh may I have a second please I'll second it uh again um Mr Zep could you tell us what this resolution is for U just for brevity 94 and 95 are very similar all right we received Grant awards for uh both these projects and what uh Sam is doing is he's setting up the funding account for these grants um happens is uh they're they're reimbursable grants so we have to front the money first uh do the project and then we uh uh when we when we ask for reimbursement of it from the state they want benchmarks that all the work was done properly and all that good stuff so this establishes the the funding account line for each of those projects okay and um how would a member of the public find out how the grant money is being spent so what the grant money is going for Main Street and also a grant for Station Road if they want to know what are you spending the grant money on how would they find that out two of them are do grants they're basically were awarded the grants from New Jersey DOT one is specifically for Station Park Road improvements and the other is for Main Street and that's all we can spend the money on H for for for those funds any other funds that we may need ancillary funds or maybe engineering cost that may go over would have to come out at some of our other road department coughers you know like the the ordinance that we put in place for the million doll worth of Road improvements or something the final one is the uh is the American Rescue firefighter Grant I believe that one was about 70 we asked for 70 they gave us 50 they gave us 50 okay um that's $50,000 to be used for the fire department to purchase um Scot tanks scuba equipment and and basically mask and that's that's all that can be used for But to answer your question mayor on how they can inquire is is the council had already uh uh adopted a resolutions allowing us to apply for the grant when we become aware of the Grant in fact uh you're going to see resolution 911 it's a last minute resolution but uh and this was because of the the deadline to file uh is before the next council meeting so that's why this was put on so quickly um we'll do a resolution first when we we become aware of a grant and we want to apply for the council does a resolution to apply for the grant so that right there is a Telltale that hey we we're going to do a project and we're hoping grant money is going to be there to fund it and and a lot of these to some of these grants come through and they're very time sensitive so that's why we may put them through under East chapter 159 so that we get the funding in place to to be able to take advantage of of the grant funds okay thank you um so all those in favor of resolution 94 say I I I resolution 94 has passed uh given your explanation for 95 and 96 I think we can take those together uh so may I have a motion to approve resolutions 95 and 96 and they are as in U entitled resolution chapter 159 NJ do Station Road resolution 96 is resolution chapter 159 American Rescue plan firefighter Grant I make a motion that we approve resolutions 9-5 and 9-6 uh may I have a second please I'll second it uh all those in favor say I I I resolutions 95 and 96 have passed um may I have a motion to approve resolution 97 which is a resolution authorizing the lease of copiers and multifunction devices for the township SP of the estate contract for 2024 make a motion that we approve resolution 9-7 uh may I have a second please I'll second it okay and before we vote again Jim what's the purpose of this let Sam answer this all right this is for our copier leasing contract throughout the whole Township and basically what we usually do is we take like the higher end machines higher use machines are usually the clerk's office you know my office the tax office you know we're in Planning and Zoning so what we do is usually take our machines that we've leased and move them down to some of the smaller departments so that we're not at buying like 20 machines or 30 machines all all at once as brand new we're moving them around and getting the full usefulness out of out of these machines usually each department has machine about 3 years and then we rotate them around and I I suppose we've determined it's cheaper to lease than buy yes okay plus plus the the lease usually um um includes like your supplies and stuff like that and the maintenance so oh DN I noticed it was 42 months it just struck me as odd is that because of the life of the machines is it based on like yeah and like say if we get a good deal sometimes we'll move them around earlier but we we move the high-end machines down to a smaller department so they're getting a bigger machine and we try we try to do it in such a way that you know we get the most usefulness out of out of the product being $889,000 that's a sizable amount of money it it's just good practice to do a resolution for this expenditure and you're right the 42 months is basically the life cycle of the new lease and uh they also keep track of uh the repair calls when a department is having a copier problem they keep track of it and then we get a Telltale on on the machines so this is just good practice yeah thanks thank you all right so all those in favor of uh resolution 97 say I I I resolution 97 has passed uh we are not doing 98 and in light of the uh failure to adopt 2 2408 so we will move to n resolution 9 nine which is somehow not in my package n title of 9-9 is the resolution of the 10 there is okay got it um found it um may I have a motion for to adopt resolution 99 resolution of the township of Sparta for emergency appropriation litigation I make a motion that we approve res solution 9-9 uh may I have a second please okay and what is the re why did this become necessary well unfortunately we're coming back to the well because the previous uh Appropriations uh which we had a $75,000 chunk and then we had a $100,000 chunk for uh litigation Council has been used up and we're coming back to the council uh I got estimates from uh Tom Collins our attorney what he thinks uh you know a proper next encumbrance would be with the uh speculative future litigation right now I think you're all aware where we are with uh multiple suits right now with the diamond chip and the other planning board suits that we have so um we're asking for an appropriation of $50,000 to um keep paying our attorneys how many suits are there right now four I'm in Chipotle bet shortterm round four four four [Music] yeah well and um am I right the the four of those are the four of those lawsuits uh minor SES three of them are are brought by developers is that right correct okay and three three planning board one Council yes okay so this actually this will this litigation expense expenses and this appropriation before all four of those or just for the planning board ones was in the write up of the resolution it does State planning board uh right now it is for planning board I mean we were asking you're asking me how many cases we have we we've got four suits this this is for the three planning board as you alluded to okay it's important also to note that some of them include multiple boards like if a suit like we've seen in the past includes multiple boards then it's double the legal fees because each board is represented by an attorney yeah it could be and you got fee shifting and whatnot but right now this you know we're paying for that the motion is uh to approve resolution 99 uh we've had a a first and a second um may I have a roll call vote councilman Herzberg yes councilwoman Quinn yes councilman cherell yes Deputy Mayor buetti yes mayor Clark yes right resolution uh 910 may I have a motion to uh approve resolution 910 was the resolution to amend the general capital budget I'll make a a motion that we approve resolution 9-10 uh may I have a second please I will second it thank you and say what why do we need to do this uh resolution this is for the um in connection with the grant monies that we received for the um inclusive um playground at Station Park um we've have a $500,000 grant that we will receive and we have um we're using 200,000 out of the 25 or 2.5 million we had tonight to basically build that playround round um the 200,000 I'm using as a down payment because again this this is considered debt because we don't physically have the 500 at which point we receive the grant I'll pay off the $500,000 worth of debt so basically in essence it'll will will really will have only cost this to $200,000 at the end of the project the estimates I got for um from the engineer and stuff for that Park was they're looking pretty close to you know 675 700,000 to uh complete the the full project and we're paying a fifth right so it's roughly 140 we're we we'll yeah we'll probably be paying like the match the match is 1th which is 140,000 out of our pocket so I put 700 just to make sure that we had sufficient funds to complete the project okay thank you uh all those in favor of resolution 910 say I I I resolution 910 is passed uh we do have a late addition uh to the resolutions it has been made made available uh to the public up front um it is the my understanding the reason for the late submission is that it's because it's there's a Grant application deadline and we needed to get this resolution in right and our our next meeting is the end of August in it wouldn't be sufficient time so the resolution is to approve the submission of a Grant application and execution of a grant agreement with the New Jersey Department of Transportation for the sparta Avenue curb and sidewalk Improvement project and so may I have a motion to approve resolution 911 I motion that we approve resolution 9-11 uh may I have a second please I will second it all those in favor say I I I Okay resolution 911 is passed and uh thank you for catching that and getting this in I know that a lot of the public is interested in improving the sidewalk access uh to Sparta Avenue along Sparta Avenue State as always okay we are now at the portion of the meeting for Council liaison updates and I'll start over to my far right uh councilman Chell do you have any updates these are committee updates right Council eais on updates correct uh I have a couple to offer uh I'll go through them quickly first the revolution NJ committee um has paused the meetings and we start meeting again on October 7th and we will start a regular monthly cycle at that time um we may choose to skip a meeting if we want to but we will post a regular monthly meeting uh the first Monday of each month starting October 7th um to report um we the Sussex County Daughters of the Revolution di did share a list of nine Revolutionary War grave sites in Sparta uh we're looking into um trying to clean those grave sites right now and uh we do have markers for those sites that came to the BFW we don't have a budget right now to spend on cleaning them so we're trying to engage the Scouts in the area to see if they would help us but um that's some progress we're making there um the last environmental commission meeting was July 11th they'll be and there'll be the next one is on Thursday the 25th um one uh two things of note one is that we have a student Leon to the committee whose uh term is up I believe that individual might be interested in reapplying but um that uh spot is open for any prospective students to any students to apply uh if they if they wish um I don't know if there's a mechanism for socializing that student leaz on term student leaz on position is available for someone to apply um maybe something we can post on our website or something or maybe a a quick um press release I don't know we'll have to figure some way to socialize that um and one thing I don't want to get into this here because it's the hour is pretty late but um one of the things that we talked about in the last environmental commission meeting were cluster ordinances as they relate to open space um I did have a couple of questions on that and it did open up some discussions um so um maybe we'll um put that on the shelf for a little bit U but I know what the we're we're looking at that as it visa the as it in so far as it relates to the open space plan um I'll let councilman Herzberg speak to the business development committee meeting our last meeting was July 10th um for the culture and arts committee um the uh was that the Billy Hector concert on on Friday uh it was great the it was great seeing the Park full um and Billy Hector's always a very good draw for us uh we have six uh concert dates between now and our next meeting uh so really quickly July 26 we'll have its first French artist uh Manu lvin Lanvin and the New York City session band uh the opening band is Colden hand August 2nd there's the legendary soul singer bar Barbie Harden which we're excited about opening for Bobby Harden is Sparta resident Adam Jacob August 9th the uh alternative electric Jazz rock musician Rachel Zan osmosis uh on August 16th we have saxophonist Jerry vivino I believe uh and opening for Jerry bino is the fabulous Rhythm Maes and on August 23rd we have Katie Henry and the opening band is at the Atlantic Cafe band from and they hail from Still Water uh so I encourage everybody to go out free rock um in the pond it's great to hang out in the concert and U everybody puts on a really good show i' like to thank the um the culture and arts they do a really good job of making sure the lineup is is in place and um leading up to that there's a lot of work that goes into the series and um that group does a very good job um I want to extend a formal thank you to the planning board even though I don't sit on the committee but uh I they are trying to adjudicate their applications quickly uh I noticed they they added another a third meeting for the month so um uh they're all volunteers and I'd like to thank them for their work and going a little bit above and beyond to try to make sure that these applications are adjudicated as timely as we can uh and um that is all I would add at this point okay councilman blue medy uh good segue so couple updates from the planning board meetings just recently the uh JP Ventures which is 172 woodport road that hearing has started and uh proceeded through uh a large portion of it it's going to be continued um Thor lab 15 Wilson Drive that hearing took place and that was approved and then finally uh Binger Corporation at 10 Aaron way that hearing also uh began and is underway and will be continued our next meeting is uh coming up on August 8th and that's it for now thank you okay thank you um for me uh first the uh film committee uh met last week um again I think I've mentioned we have a u deadline of August 30th for the submission of our application uh to be film ready um we one of the key components to that uh is an ordinance uh and uh I we are in the current process of a draft that's been sent uh to Mr Ryan uh for his review uh at which point we will um once he's had a chance to look at it uh we will let the rest of council look at it but the idea is to get that ordinance introduced uh in the the August uh meeting it is again based on other townships that have uh have uh the film ready ordinance um a lot of it builds in a lot of protections so the town will know the nature and scope of a film project before they come in um and any other public resources that will need to be dedicated uh to that um and so we will uh more than likely not be able to pass that and until after the deadline but I have checked with the film commission um and they are fine with that as long as it's in progress which it will be um so that is the update on the film committee uh I know I think Chris we are due to probably meet with Lake Mohawk at some point um and so uh with the summer schedule but we will we will do that and and and have a meeting um with them I will refer to the the rec committee with um for Chris uh we do have an upcoming uh Library board meeting I believe uh probably not till August or September because we they also take the uh a summer vacation schedule but as soon as that meeting happens I will report and that is all I have I have a question with regard to film ready sure um so we've been we have discussed in the past concerns around process and also technology to be able to support um online applications what is the process going to look like when you know when companies come in and they want to do a movie who vets them what is that process so has the committee made any progress with regard to I understand yeah the ordinance will address that yeah the ORD addresses IT addresses the process and who who meets who how they you know the amount of time that they have to notify a Township um who has you know what departments have to get involved obviously uh the police department will be in you know will be involved to the extent that the production says that they need crowd control or road closure Etc but all that is sort of specified the ordinance and I do hope that we can uh get that draft ordinance circulated to members of the council at least hopefully two weeks before uh the meeting so you'll have time to look at it what is the checks and balance system in place in that process and who has the final authority to say yes or no um the checks and balance Es are that the town manager really has most of the the control about whether to approve or not approve it because um you know for example he will meet if he gets you know a request from a particular entertainment production company and they want to close down entire swaths of Sparta uh it's within it likely it's up to the town manager to say this is too much of a burden on this thanks but no thanks um so that's the process builds in and it also builds in that the entertainment company has to give us sufficient information about what they intend to do and what they need and what they're shooting right yeah and what they're shooting and other things so we can um it's a way and these are we have the benefit of towns who have gone through this and who have had a fair amount of um films there so it's patterned after this is actually a template that the film commission has recommended uh based on their experience having had to deal with that because they are the first kind call they get they get the call from the entertainment production and then they sometimes reach out so and Tom so Tom what flexibility do we have because probably none when it comes to content of what's being filmed right well I I mean the the town cility I don't know the commission or office we can say no for any reason we want so yeah if that's what I'm checking we don't want to slash or move in Sparta cuz we don't want to you know be associated with the slasher movie we can do that um you know and I know that there are uh having been to Seaside Heights they are regretting their decision ever to have agreed to have uh Jersey Shore filmed in Seaside so well as this Blair's town with Halloween because they get thousands of people up there every year on Halloween I'm more concerned because I've received feedback from a colleague in a different municipality that has gone through this and one of the things that they said to really be mindful of is they had a film crew come in and say yes we're all excited we want to rent this place it was in the um like a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere and come to find out there was x-rated films and different things being filmed back so that's why I'm asking do you have a right I mean they could always lie but do you have a right to say is this you know or to put in our or ordinance that this no way shape or form supports these yeah we're under no obligation to the the ordinance it's not NE that we're under no obligation to accept any type of entertainment production if we don't want it for whatever reason we want there's no uh it's really if we if we want it if we can you know most times they're rejected just because on the sheer burden that it may put on the municipality but they have you know all the agencies that would be affected will have input and then um that will be kind of a call that will be up to to Jim with input from Council Members with input from any you know for example if they want to use a wreck facility I would think Gene monturo would need to know that as well and it's it builds that in that the subject the stakeholders who would have be affected by the production will have a right to to comment on it so only I know that's all I have think Josh are up so the business development committee met like uh Dan said on July 10th one of the things we did is we had a presentation from the Historical Society for an idea to use a trolley to um take people all around Sparta and show them all the good things that Sparta has to offer and they were hoping maybe the township would fot the bill on that so um I think we have to have further discussions on what that looks like like the business development committee is going to throw out some ideas and and try and see if maybe um after they left we had a discussion of maybe doing some kind of pamphlet or something where businesses would donate and and be highlighted in that way the town wouldn't have to pay for it and the businesses would would chip in and maybe fund that so I'll uh keep you up to date on on that discussion um one of discussions um that came out of it well let me go back so there was a again like every time there's discussions on what's hurting businesses what what the good the bad the ugly one of the main points that were brought up by several people were the length of the board meetings and the applications being drawn out um somebody brought up that there had been some comments on Facebook from groups saying that that was their tactic to draw it out make the businesses spend money especially the ones that they didn't want and that is known throughout the community and a lot of businesses do not want to deal with Sparta because of that and one of the and it's not the board it's it's more public comment that's dragging it out and one of the the suggestions was that we as a board um officially recommend time limits on comments for the planning board and the zoning board so we'll probably be drafting some official recommendations for that um one of the other discussions was why are some of these applications that are just like for like why aren't they being just settled at the zoning office rather than having to tie up the planning board and the subcommittee um it's done in a lot of towns probably most towns and it was done here and it stopped at some point but um Jim you know we're going to be having those discussions with the attorneys and the zoning office to see if we can't um square that away that's it um so I um I was asked to read this first well first and foremost just so everyone knows with regard to the um Sparta Historical Society the Van Kirk Homestead Museum this weekend is the last day July 28th for the medal from Earth to form and fashion um exhibit so if you haven't had a chance to go check that out yet please do um Sunday July 28th from 1:00 to 4: will be the final day um also wanted to take a minute and wish marjerie strael a very happy birthday she celebrated a big milestone birthday last week um unfortunately I was not able to attend but she had it at the bker homestead and they were un um they actually dug in and pulled out a time capsule which is a pretty awesome way to have a birthday so good for her and very happy birthday marjerie thank you for everything you do for the community she's awesome yeah she is incredible um we had a Rec advisory committee meeting this this past week um Arlene Kane unfortunately had to resign so we are looking for another representative from our senior citizen Community to take her space on the board um there's going to be a food truck festival at White Lake Saturday this Saturday 10: to 7: the senior pools up and running they they decided to change their membership structure a little bit to accommodate the amount of senior citizens at the senior pool the food truck festival was this weekend was it oh I'm sorry last weekend right this was last week's meeting um there's going to be a Harvest Festival at White Lake on 10:26 the farm camp is up and going if anyone is interested um there is additional talk about pickle ball courts I know Jim you you hear us you're tired of hearing us bring this up but we're bringing that we also had some requests that had come in about us as a council relooking at the potential to open up maybe one of our parks to allow people to be able to walk their dogs in a park on a leash so we had talked about that we had that conversation we did not have consensus to move it forward in all of the parks but people are asking so it may be um you know I think it's fair for us to look at what amenities do we have what what park do we have that maybe we could collectively agree people could go in and walk their dogs I know we have the Glenn but quite frankly um as beautiful as the Glenn can be I think that um people get a little bit nervous especially going in there on their own because of the amount of wildlife that's in there especially if they don't have another adult to walk with in case they get injured um you know it's not a place like where you would where there would be other people around and whatnot so I wanted to bring that um that forward um and as I mentioned the the Harvest Festival and trunk Retreat that's going to be on the 26 they're doing it differently this year the trunk Retreat is only going to be for an hour and a half and that'll be from 2: to 3:30 um from 12: to 5: there's going to be food trucks there's going to be kids zones there's going to be stuff going all over White Lake field and then the trunk Retreat will be in the middle of that time period so they have one half of it that's IR marked for the smaller kids and another half of it that's going to be earmarked for the larger kids the other thing that we um discussed and we will be resubmitting to everybody for review is the prioritization of all of the we were asked earlier in the year to come up with this prioritize list of projects and whatnot what did we have current funding for what did we need funding for um we had to wait for the budget to be approved then we submitted um the last time we submitted the form we still did not have the budget approved now did so we talked about it the other night we're going to be resubmitting in a prioritized order um with regard to the municipal Alliance very exciting news we are in the middle of our Collective review of the screenagers program and so we're very excited about that at the next meeting I hope to have an update with regard to our path forward at least with that initiative I know the school reached out to us and you know statistics are just going through the roof around social media and what's going on so we're very excited to be able to partner and not only bring this to the schools but also to our community as well so stay tuned for updates on that that's what I have thank you um and may we'll just if you don't mind we'll just stay with you on any unfinished or new business that you may have so I just wanted to reiterate the fact that I had a conversation with Jim because really I understand and I know a lot of residents don't understand this but we are comprised of many different kinds of roads and infrastructure some State some private some Town some County um so we had a couple discussions about some of the disintegrating infrastructure on some of the the the roads that are not our own and Jim um part of the the issue is going to be addressed at least with the next grant that we just put in for and getting that going but also he informed me that he's going to he's been having conversations with regard to Sparta Avenue for example and Main Street and trying to get that done and also I just wanted to remind you um don't forget about the the idea for the Planters I know we don't want to do anything yet because it's all getting ripped up but let's just remember the feedback that the residents brought to us with that beautification effort while we're going through this whole initiative and I understand it's not our roads and all that kind of stuff as well so we're limited but thank you for listening and thank you for bringing those things forward because we put up all the hometown hero banners and they look stunning but that's drawing attention to more people people now who are driving and really going slowly looking for banners and the amount of complaints are especially about Sparta Avenue are going it's a disaster yeah yeah so thank I'm aware of that thank you that's it for me any new business or old business Josh nope okay uh Dean do you have any yeah two items one is uh this past Sunday I had the honor of attending the sparta Cricket club's championship match my first time I'm ever witnessing or going to a cricket match um great great crowd nice family event I uh was able to present the awards uh after the match and uh stay for a a wonderful lunch that they hosted um over in the park so I just wanted to uh thank them again for that and for the opportunity uh my my second comment is is more around um some summary thoughts um about uh tonight meeting and um you know I'll consider unfinished business so the master plan work is a is a natural and expected function of our roles as elected leaders and uh tonight we heard in in great detail all the project management and financial oversight by our staff and how it would be led by our trusted approved and experienced professionals who have been here for years uh you my perspective is you know individuals on this day should be ready to explain to those we represent you know the residents the voters and their children and grandchildren why this critical work which hasn't been done in 40 years was blocked thank you cell um yeah I'll add a couple things um sticking on the cricket thing I I concluded my first U Venture into the world of cricket and I and our team finished in third um Championship Was Won by the all stars and I'm proud to say that out of the total of 2,696 runs that were scored in the whole uh League uh I accounted for one of them so um nothing nor where to go but up I guess I could go down but um harder to go down um I did want to speak a little bit I know it's a late hour I'll try to keep it brief uh July is disability pride month um and um it's something that's important to me U and we recognize that by flying the disability pride flag Which flies right now outside uh of this building I have some personal experiences with that um and um one of those being you know as a child I was uh I did um have some U encumbrances growing up and uh you know and and I and uh one thing I've learned is that um is that um you don't Define yourself uh by your disability um it's not shameful it's uh and just the opposite of shameful which is pride and which is why this is called pride month um and one of things i' I've learned is that um you know growing up I wasn't I guess to some I was the kid with the braces and the crutches but um uh but for most of my friends I was just Dan um my my father lost his eyesight later in life um so we had to deal with that disability as well as a family um but um to to sort of turn a phrase uh if you've seen one disability you've seen one disability uh it's really hard to compare um things that I experienced it would would would pale and compare to what other people experienced um so um uh and I've also learned from uh participating in a disability caucus uh and if you have a chance to to be part of a caucus I would hope you would take advantage of that it's sort of an incubator for new laws and regulations uh and so in doing so I get to hear a lot of um people uh with direct uh experiences or indirect experiences with disabilities talk about the things that they have to go through and you know in your caucus you uh and there were elected leaders in that caucus group as well talk about okay what kind of regulations what kind of laws do we need to protect and make people's lives better and I and I have to say that part of that experience you know maybe in some way um you know inspired me to to try to to sit on this side of the the DI and do something about trying to make people's lives better um so I I guess my would close in that as say is um it's a disability is is is is personal uh but it doesn't Define somebody and if um and if you see somebody with an obvious uh physical or cognitive disability uh it's it's not shameful or defining um it's nothing to either void or look away either just part of who we are I me I wasn't the kid with the braces I was just stand to people um so um help open the door if you need to or whatever you need to do just uh they we're uh it's again it's a it's not the defining feature it's just a feature um so um that said uh I'd also like to uh um make a motion to put on the agenda um on the August 27th meeting that we fly a few uh three different commemorative Flags FL two different commemorative Flags uh so I'd like to have a vote right now to put that on the agenda um the first one is I'll make a motion that uh on September 11th that the township flies the SE the 9911 Memorial flag to reflect on the anniversary of the September 11th 2001 terrorist attacks so that is a motion I'll make I'll second it all those in favor say I Iain abstain stain okay two extensions uh three the second motion I'll make is on September 18th that we fly the flag of the United States Air Force to commemorate the founding of the US Air Force I will second it uh all those in favor say I Iain abstain okay three eyes two abstains and that is all I I guess we do have a a Trails committee appointments so I can I'll hold off until that gets up on the agenda and um that's I was going to do that under yep unfinished business excuse me Dan did did I miss hear you you just say there was three flags I meant I meant to you meant to okay thank you anything else nope that's all I got thanks um bear with me I do have a a little bit of new business um first off um happy to announce uh that the state Agricultural Development Committee uh which administers New Jersey Farmland preservation program has received an application uh by the owner of of it's called awesome Acres LLC which is you know most people know it as the property across from shopright um fortunately formerly the sunflower field uh they have applied uh for this program um and what that means is uh that the sadc uh will determine whether that property fits within their program that is going to be determined uh on Thursday they are having it is public um you can go on the sadc website it's an agenda item uh what what happens at that point is sadc determines whether the property fits within its parameters uh to be approved for the program uh I can tell you that if they've gotten this far more than likely than not it it it will fit that and then what happens after that is um once it's approved for participation in the program there will be a uh appraisals for the property at which point those appraisals um will then be communicated to the owner and then the owner uh is free to accept or reject that um this is a program I think I mentioned before that has been successfully used uh most recently in White Township uh where they were faced with uh a million square foot Warehouse that would have required all kinds of changes to the um to the town and other things and the owner um was able I think to clear probably over 15 to $18 million based on their investment um so it's a way to give the owner um fair value for their property but also preserving the um the the property so uh we have communicated um our support for that application um but again it's no commitment from us there's no taxpayer funds or anything um that go to this and we'll we'll find out more after Thursday but I'm happy um that that application has been submitted uh next up is the um appointments question on that sure so if the state takes that over do they pay us taxes they pay for the uh I think the the difference so that will be assessed as Farm property as it is now so it stays in its current status um so you will get tax revenue from it um based upon its as basically it stays the status quo so whatever taxes you're getting from the property uh now is what you would get then so so it locks it down in Def it locks it down in perpetuity correct uh yes could only be used for agriculture yeah for agriculture so there will no there will never be any way depending on any kind of use that would come in there other than agriculture that would ever put that property back on in any way shape or form um to be used to go back on the tax roles as commercial property yeah I don't know if there's a way to revert it back and you know if at some point there's a change of decision but no at the point that there would be it would stay a form uh as it is now and they they can actually transfer title to a private owner but the private owner would receive a restrictive deed that restricts it just to agricultural so if a farmer applied to them and say hey I would love that land I want to farm on it I want to or they can buy it from uh from the sa sadc but it would have a restrictive deed that only allows farming and can they rent it or do they have to buy it like do you know if they have a I believe the the primary function is to to sell it to transfer title under the restricted deed okay yeah it Go someone could actually lease it from the uh the commission I don't know all right next up we do as we've mentioned in previous previous um uh meetings uh we do have a uh we formed a trail committee uh for purposes of improving Trail access in and around Sparta uh we announced that um and due to that announcement we did get some applications uh in uh we've received an application from a Landon taneri if that name is familiar to you it's because he's on the zoning board he's also done a heck of a lot of leg work on actually um identifying what trails uh exist particularly abandoned rail Trails um and then are next so I would move that we appoint Landon taneri to the trail committee I will second that all those in favor say sorry there two other people are we just put pointing one at this time or we going to do that I haven't uh we're going to do one we could do all three I've only I've only seen two applications in okay I thought I saw applications from Conor so and Brad Carlson I didn't see Connor but I we I saw Brad and Landon but not Connor we talked about this also at the rec advisory committee and I did have a lengthy conversation with Landon as well and I have a conversation tomorrow at the county um to see if we can try to get this um committee at the county level to pull together the nine different municipalities that the trails are running through and get support and possibly even maybe some funding at the county level so just to let you know okay that would be good yeah I do see an application here from Conor so okay um so you'll be making these one at a time or can we do we could do them all so can I have Connor's last name s o k o l so cool okay so I will uh make a motion uh to appoint to the trail committee Landon taneri Brad Carlson and Connor soal Connor is the proprietor of gears and ground and Brad Carlson may be familiar to most he's also on the business development committee I believe I will second that nomination all those in favor say I I so Landon Brad and Connor are now on the um uh Trails committee uh next up I do want to announce that um and we've I've had discussions with um our lawyer and and and with Jim uh about bringing to council uh cannabis ordinances uh people have seen that many municipalities in our area uh have done this um there are my understand there's like six different licenses that one could get um this is not treading new ground I know that uh Tom Mr Ryan has had experience with these in other townships and so uh they are the easy part is the legal part um the hard part is figuring out you know what is it that we want which which licenses do we want and so um I think that Council will my my view of it is to have the discussion based upon you know Council being informed about what these ordinance would look like just in draft form so they can inform their future discussions about it um but we will obviously have public input but I wanted uh both the public and the council to know that that is underway um and we will you know have further discussions on that but I I think it's important and we've announced this under previously uh cuz we have had people come before the Town Council and and ask us about it so um just wanted to put that out there and so we're not having I mean it's quarter to 11 we're not having that discussion no we're not having that discussion now I just wanted to to let you know yeah say The Best For Last no um but anyway I thought it was you know kind of incumbent to to at least let folks know and that is all the new business and unfinished business that I have and now we are at the catchall pervers uh portion of our meeting uh open to the public uh for anything um that you want to speak about and just remember to state your name for the record and abide by the five minute particularly at this wonderful 1045 hour Margie Murphy 9 PUO Parkway I wanted to know if we're doing Sparta Avenue did we get anything as a town from the people that are building the apartments up there did they give anything to the town a park a sidewalk the entire sidewalks what did we get for them for allowing them to build that anything you talking about additional compensation besides the application M no why no man ask you you can ask I mean it wasn't considered it was a the application was passed because of its merits and there was question by the planning board and you know part of that is doing the sidewalk I if I recall correctly at the bottom and where the driveway comes out that part they're going to redo and stripe it and all that um but in terms of like parks and extracurricular type things no usually developers I mean if we a lot of developers will give the town if we press them but we didn't well you are talking about a slippery slope there as to making it a condition of an approval which is illegal uh unless there's a you know a justification for a requirement you can't just say buy us a new fir truck and will will approve your plan so uh it's pretty fact sensitive and I and I think the our land use boards are aware of what the the parameters are uh within which they can uh uh require accommodations such as that but if there if it Leeds up to their property if we extended the and the height of it the look of it it's atrocious that we're going to have those apartments there that we got nothing in return well again they can't they their application has to fit within the uh you know the land use we didn't change ordinances for that I don't know I'm aware of so it's one thing if the person that goes in there offers something for the community that's one thing but I think that's what Tom's saying you can't require it or say to them oh we're going to do this like a a quck proquo but most developers if they're in a good relationship with the township many of them the ones that you have seen for example in Rockway and in some different places over in Mount Olive and whatnot but it's at the discretion of the Builder and usually it's dependent upon the um you know it's it's at their discretion totally what they choose to to if they're going into a new community sometimes Builders will say oh we'd like to donate a park or we'd like to donate a playground or you know whatever it might be but it's discretionary and it's at their ex you can't ask for it did we change any ordinances to allow that building to be built the apartments yeah height wise it was no it was Captiva it was it was sold as Captiva and it was sold with the plans intact Captiva sold it that was the original tenant then they this new company purchased it captiva's model was different than this model MH um so I mean my understanding is the ordinance didn't change between the two so that's too bad can't speak for the can't speak for the past can't speak for the past if anything changed but in terms of the last year or two for this one when it transferred that's what I just said there's no changes the other thing Margie even to the fact that I did ask with Captiva um and I'm going to ask you know I I I think it begs a question when I asked about it with Captiva I was told this also would be up to the discretion of the developer but I did ask that they consider because the the um the significance of housing for our seniors and also for new kids coming in that was more of a model of of the majority part of it were for sale units that were going to be there in Captiva um we asked them to pre-market to consider pre-marketing for maybe 30 or 45 days directly to Sparta residents before they took their marketing outside an effort and again that would have been at their discretion as well I asked about that at the planning board meeting when Captiva was approved and I don't know if that request was made again but um if the developer watching it would be neighborly um but again you can't um my you know obviously you can't control that but it's worth just asking the question um so but it's it's discretionary discretionary okay any other public comment Mark Scott nine pble Parkway for example 45 River Road in Edgewater the developer gave the town a new town hall and then he built his apartments right there on the site down in on the Hercules site hars Mountain Industries is offered the town a 540 acre Park with football fields baseball fields running [Music] trails you know I have had discussions with developers and they're they're they're targeting us because we don't ask for anything okay and Josh I just wanted you I have a report which I'll send over to you but unimproved land unimproved land costs the town less than improved land because improved land needs services and this is a came from the state and I I'll be glad to send that over to you sure okay great thanks I think it's also important to note that in the examples that you gave there was a harmonious relationship going on between the developers and the township so um you know and and there's a lot to be said about that so I I think that you can't be anti that kind of development and then scream that you didn't get a new football field so I think the the people that are making out really well from these like the some of the examples that you gave um you know they work together and a very harmonious way to bring these projects forward I'm sure Andover and Hardon will be receiving some I'm sure Andover and Hardon will be I mean you might be right but I'm just saying I think it's unfair to say that we're not getting it because we're not asking for it I don't think that that's fair we can't ask for it first of all because that's not legal and second of all you can't expect that they're going to come forward and offer you different amenities if you've got a confrontational relationship in the first place and and and you know so I just want to clarify I don't think that's a fair assessment to say we're not asking for it we can't ask for it thank God we're not asking for it that would be another lawsuit more harmonious like in the past we haven't been harmonious enough because they haven't given us that's what you just how many lawsuits have we had over this development you're talking about warehouses correct well we're going to end this cqu because it's late and we have the the chairman of the planning board here who would uh would like to make a public comment all right thank thank you everybody Ronde uh uh plan board chair chairperson as well as the uh chair for the uh subcommittee M committee so uh listening to the dialogue tonight I I I sense that the ordinance but I think it's just going to need a bit more discussion um hopefully you know we can have an ordinance maybe reintroduced at the next meeting and a path can be found that we can find a way to fund fund fund this effort I I think you know looking at at what we have right now we have an outstanding uh planning board team um very committed group of individuals we've got a top-notch group of professionals and we got a diverse subcommittee team which which can be expanded to add a few more people if that's that's the thing that's going to help us get us there um but the point is I I think the pieces are in place we when we should take advantage of having those pieces in place um now you know sooner rather than later so so I'm going I'm going to leave here tonight a little different I think than the most people I'm going to leave here optimistic that a path can be found and will be found to fun to fund the master plan um within the next few meetings so um I want to thank each of you um individually for everything that you all do for the town uh Chief mccarrick I never get a chance to thank you and in the police department so you know we've got we've got a good group of people up here and this is an important thing and I'm sure that if we all work together and talk more we're going to find a way to get this done so so thank you thank you thank you thanks Ron thank you Ron thank you and I will say that the ball is in the court of the people who want certain language come up with that language um that is acceptable to you for consideration I agree with you we need to find a path forward um but we need to know what would be acceptable and so those who didn't like the language tonight I I think it's incumbent upon them to come up with language that they do like um so we can get this and and do what hasn't been done in over 40 years so wait a second Neil to that point hold on one second captain I submitted documentation over and over everybody has it multiple times I'm not a lawyer I don't know how to put it into craft it the legal way I sent it out to leadership to councel everybody has it so I'm going to ask the manager to please you have my email you um we've met and discussed this topic I mean the topic of this so please bring it for forward to whatever attorney um you know Tom I'm assuming it would be Tom Ryan to take the things that are in this email um Tom has a copy of it too he does and uh craft it because I thought that was the entire intention of that was why I sent it in the first place I sent it I brought it up and I sent it with the intention we would get here tonight and this would be in the wording and everything would be included I'm not a lawyer I'm not doing it again I've already done it once so please I'm asking that you refer back to this and see if it could be crafted into some kind of language just like I did last month and I I will say that we we took the language that you did and we came up with what we came up with that wasn't acceptable um so I guess we will we will try again um but I I think it it would probably be best to get the language that you think is acceptable have that vetted by whoever you need to vet it and then uh you can present it to the rest of in the and you can say this is the precise language that I want okay so I'm happy to do that as soon as I get a copy of it Chris I would Echo that too was read we all saw the email now you know that and uh you never responded to it that's because you told us not to we were we were working with Jim and Neil emailed you and said we're going to get some thoughts together run it by Jim and Sam and you said you just wanted to deal with Jim on that so but it was considered very much that's why it's that's why the it's in the email but that's why the that's why the language changed so your proposal I understand where you're coming from but you can't assume that that's just going to be plugged into the ordinance well you weren't copied on the first email you got it by accident because I initially sent it out to be vetted before it went out I understand that so never ever did I say ever and if you claim to have that an email I want a copy of it where I said I'm only working with Jim over two weeks to make 47,000 phone calls to try to get all the information proactively because nobody would talk to me because I wanted to come here tonight with a solution that we could approve I wish everybody felt that same way and didn't dig in and just want what they want because I am the only one proactively that has tried to bring this thing forward that's not true any ordinance changed because of your feedback but it doesn't mean that what you want is going to be exactly mirrored in there this was a compromise I saw this 15 minutes before the meeting it was a minor change right it should have been done by Friday you're right and the packets that was an error in timing um but that's a minor change it was an to accommodate what you wanted it was more add reate again the verbiage that's there and and this is how adults work we have a conversation and try to negotiate it so that we can move it forward we don't I don't think we need condescension uh we just need consensus well he me that why don't we move what are you I said you should be you should be ready to answer I said everyone up here should be ready to answer to the voters the residence for why this was blocked that was my comment well my op talk to anybody and work with them that's hey let's let's do it then I mean that's the language is not going to be just popped in there that's fine I have nothing to hide I have all my documentation Dean a lot of it came from you you got why you guys can take this outside uh may have a motion to adjourn B moved oh wait did Kathy want to talk oh I'm you sure Kathy okay uh may have a motion to adjourn motion uh may I have a second I need a second to adjourn second uh all those in favor say I I I uh meeting is adjourned