order the meeting is also being live streamed Advocate notice of the meeting was provided in the New Jersey Harold it was also posted on the sparter township website and its bulletin board in accordance to all provisions of the open public meetings act if you could please rise and salute the flag with us I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liy and justice for all Marissa you could please call the role Michael josifi here Rich larua here Richard rocker here Mark Scott yes here L teneri here chairman Kenneth Lowry here Glenn keing here just for the public the items on the agenda tonight are the following we have one resolution to be memorialized and the application spart evic Evangelical Free Church for D variance the chair will entertain a motion approving the Danielle and Michael mcka 15-23 application for C variants so so moved second please second any discussion Marissa please call the RO Michael jic yeah Richie Lupa yes Richard robacker yes Mark Scott yes Lena teneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes that's the practice of this board to adjourn at 10m sharp and not to hear any new applications after 9:30 and the first application SP Evangelical Free Church if you can come forward please then Mr ERS before we start just for the public uh Reon and so forth as we know it's a d variance you'll need five affirmative votes to approve the application we have five full board members here tonight and one alternate uh Landon which will be voting tonight too so I just wanted to clear that for the record if you want to move forward I assume I I do Mr chairman we'll see uh we'll see how it goes and we're not we're not expecting to be up against your your deadline of 10 o' I heard the announcement and also I make announcements each time for these d Varian is that as you know of course they're tied to the land not the applicant not the owner of the land but tied to the land in perpetuity for the public so they realize that and also before you start you'll present the case with your applicant after you're finished our board and professionals will have any comments and questions we'll go next and after we're finished we'll open it to the public very good Mr chairman thank you you're welcome and then um Glen would you mind uh oh no no one has to be qualified here tonight just have the lawyer and D have to have him rise up on D yes Mr dyra do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the proceedings before the board tonight's help you God I do and your name is Kenneth dyra and you were employed by bikra Walker Design Group you're going to be testifying as what Ken I'm a professional licensed professional engineer planner and land surveyor and you've been here more times than you care to imagine well many or then you can even remember that's the problem and and your license is valid as of tonight right Ken anybody have any problem with Mr Dyer's qualifications none okay Council good evening members of the board just for the record I'm John ersen of Shane price and I represent the applicant the sparta Evangelical Free Church Incorporated for the record this is block 17001 tax laot 3429 La at Road the application tonight is for uh an addition to the church building and just by way of just extremely brief preview what you're going to hear tonight is that there's uh had previously been approved uh a much larger uh phase two and a phase three for this church uh this is now coming in as the addition that the church uh would like to present to the town and seek approval for and importantly uh the testimony tonight is going to be that the addition to the church is not for additional Church attendees it's to move some parts of their programming out of one section of the building and provide a more efficient and safe place particularly for children's ministry so we're the testimony I believe is going to show that it's not going to increase the number of attendees uh uh for services uh or the number of parking spaces or impact the septic but rather it's an allocation of the uh people in the new uh section and so with that very short preview I would introduce Mr dyra to uh go through and start with uh a quick recap of the existing conditions and uh describe the the proposed build um yes the uh the subject property uh located on House's Corner Road um was originally approved of actually over 20 years ago with the uh for uh the church facility and and to this date the uh the parking lots were built the uh the road was built in the boulevard entry and uh and phase one of the project so phase one of the project was about 30,000 square ft I think it's 30,00 32750 square foot building sits there today and uh just to take a little more history there the uh the original approval one through two the full buildout was a was over 990,000 sare foot facility um so the this property was lot three is part of a uh I'll call it a larger track that was the original5 acre parcel and uh and 20 years ago it was subdivided to create lot three where the church now sits uh adjacent lot two which fronts over on 15 has a has a has a a building that used to that's very close to rout 15 that was a a building that was renovated and uh that's used for uh office facilities Rel related to the church and then there's a basically another parcel a large parcel in the back with um lot of open space at this point and uh and there's also some ball fields soccer fields in the front there that I'm sure you've all seen Mr D if you uh would just reference and for the board's uh notes and for the records uh none of the plans have been changed we're making reference tonight to the submitted plans so Mr Mr dyri you would just reference the existing uh conditions sheet and then um maybe just proceed rate to start to describe what the uh proposed addition is all right the uh the site plan set that was submitted is was last revised uh uh January 26 2024 to address oh excuse me do you have a microphone let is that picking everything up on the desk there you think that's okay talking relatively loud yeah because it's a requirement as you know for the state to happen closer to it if you don't mind speak again I'm sorry just can you hear me yeah I can clearly Marissa everything yeah all right thank you all right so the plan set that was submitted was uh last revised on uh January 26 2024 to address uh complete Mis comments from uh Dave Simmons um we submitted a response and Dave has subsequently written another report the existing condition of uh lot three is uh the 16.125 acre lot and on that lot is the uh the existing phase one building that I already discussed 32750 ft the uh there's a parking uh lot on the uh the north side uh the east side and the uh south side of the the building and on the I guess the West Westerly end of this lot there's a a a Boulevard roadway that was constructed uh that Services the subject property U the property is served by Municipal Water so we're on the Township water and it has an individual uh sewage Disposal system on site and uh we already went through the process with the uh with the county health department uh related to the proposed addition Pro proposed addition that's shown on um sheet uh sheet three of your plans it's a on story 10,440 foot addition size is about 154 ft by uh 68 ft more that's have some have some notches in it um so the uh back to the sewage Disposal system we as a as a prerequisite we first went to the county health department last year and um and got gained their approval for the uh to confirm that this addition would the system could handle this addition so we have that certification and sign off from the health department this involved actually a testing by Wilson Services some minor repairs to the system and uh and then I I I wrote a report certified the system and the health department approved it for the addition straightforward this was this was always in the planned area of development for the church where this addition is going it attaches right to phase one and uh meets all the all the setback requirements I think the only technical reason we're here for this consider D variant is because uh we don't meet all conditions of the conditional use criteria so the church is a conditional use allowed in the rural residential Zone U but uh in this case we don't meet the parking requirement 20 20 plus years ago we sought a waiver from the parking requirement um I think 604 spaces were required and uh it was finally approved at uh 412 spaces that would be for the that was for the full buildout of uh the 990,000 plus square foot facility so at this point we're uh we built one phase 32750 sare ft and we're adding another 10,440 sare ft to it so this is not even close the the grand plan to fully develop the property but uh this is all that's anticipated at this time for uh the property it's been 20 years just for phase one and then so now we're adding a a portion of the next phase uh parking is as I said parking uh 64 spaces were required but that has to do with the uh calculation the uh and the reason we got a a variance before for this is because uh for churches they make you count the sanctuary space at one space for 90 square feet so that added up to a lot of square foot and then the overall square foot is fairly large balance is at one space for 200 sare ft so do the math and it ended up at 64 spaces required but the but the church had no way needed that number of spaces so it was approved at uh 412 and currently what's constructed there are uh 389 spaces schematic for the addition on the board yes I do maybe we could just introduce that and then we'll have Mr salvon come up these are the architectural plans prepared by uh Charles schaer Associates and the date of these plans is November 9th 2023 the sheet A1 which is the second page of the Set uh provides you with the uh the elevation views of this building um the building's going to be was designed to match uh the look of the existing building and uh we'll have a uh cultured stone uh Foundation uh location across the whole bat whole bottom for appearance and uh but again Mr Salvage didn't can explain this uh this plant in a little more detail if you'd like um so can you to the uh the floor plan this building will be constructed on a uh slab foundation so there's no basement under the section of the building there and then and it's a one one floor level plan okay and just when you're the the last comment you made you're referring to page a three of that set yeah A3 is the the first floor plan yes okay so um Mr chairman at this time I'm going to call Mr salvon uh to describe the uses of uh the building and then both both of our Witnesses would be available for the board's comments if that's okay okay good Len would you mind not at all sir thank you thank you do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth the proceedings before the board tonight help you God I do and who are you my name is steuart Saxon Stuart I think what we should do let's move that mic a little closer to you and Stuart is with an e or a u u u a r t and spell your last names too s a l v i g s n and you're a licensed professional architect in the state of New Jersey no what are you I'm just here representing the church uh I'm what's your position with the church I am a member of the church and I'm an elder of the church as well so you're on the Board of Trustees or something like that I'm an elder and then I'm on the building committee which is a group of us okay so you got to tell the truth you knew that though way I know he knew that that that that was last Sunday's sermon um all right so why don't you tell the board what's going on with this building sure so um maybe uh because we've described for the board that there had been a larger plan with Phase 2 and phase three in 20 years the church hasn't made any additions so maybe start with the thinking about why you needed this addition and then we'll transition into how it's going to be used okay all right so yeah we um the primary purpose of the addition or the main reason we needed it is within our existing uh phase our children's area Nursery area is in a section of classrooms that uh wasn't intended to be for long term but it's ended up being 20 years uh but again we were going to build out phase two and phase three uh again we don't know how everything's going to go ahead of time so that children's Wing though uh in addition just where uh things have become more uh security-minded over that 20 years uh it's not very easy to secure uh the bathrooms enter off that hallway the main bathrooms for anyone coming out to use restrooms now they have to go through that children's wing also on the back side there's a stairwell that goes upstairs and then exits so you just you you ideally want an area where you check you know any kids up to sixth grade into that area and you know you know who's coming in and out of that area uh in addition to that uh during our our service our Sunday morning service um there's a children's program that goes on simultaneously uh so they have an area that's more age uh more entertaining I if that's the word but uh it you know that they can go up to there and that's being used in a in a a couple classrooms that you can join together upstairs but it's not really set up and suited for that and again it's in a different area of the building than the other children's classroom so you just have the functions not there the audio visual is not there for that it's you know there's no stage so that's the other purpose these classrooms or there's Nursery classrooms and then classrooms from ages up to uh actually fifth grade where you would have one check-in spot here and then the rest of the doors would remain locked obviously just emergency exits and then you have this multi-purpose room which would had a little stage here that that program could happen during the Sunday morning service and I think the board would know this but your your largest uh attendance on an average weekly basis is your Sunday Services yes okay and Mr dyster testified about the parking spaces the church has been operating there for more than 20 years yep and and or no uh well 2005 or six we moved into the building so close to it's just to be to be honest about it accurate about it accurate um and uh the parking has been adequate there's no there's never been a situation where you've overflow parking or any problem with parking we never had to use any overflow parking uh there's a third section of parking that barely ever gets any cars maybe a couple in there uh but that that is one of the largest areas and we barely ever use it and in the intro I said that the board would hear that this wasn't intended to add uh more families more attendees it's just a matter of dispersing them in the building was was was what I said accurate yes yeah because again this isn't uh going to be having any addition that the services are still Happ the same place they always had in that same room that has the same capacity obviously which is fluctuates up and down but we're not changing that we're not changing anything about the same number of adults you're expecting to attend Services you're just moving the children from a a place that was temporary to a place that's a permanent home correct I don't think I have any further questions Mr chairman so Mr dyra and Mr Salon are both available for the boards all right well thank you Mr we'll open up to the board I just have a few questions and Mr Dyer did you take care of that Wilson Services report where there was a couple unsatisfactory listings in there yes with lid not being secure some safety issues they yeah they made all the repairs then we certified the system wrote a report that and that has been submitted to David Simmons I don't know if the board has it but I do have another copy if you'd like it um you have that David then I assume yes I do all right thank you yes so the repairs were made the system was uh was in fine working order the disposal beds were dry dry as far as they could probe so that functioning nicely um and just some repairs to the pump tank and the basically the tank and some piping right that was it all right thank you and then um I know it's hard to predict the future but what about down the future with uh more expansion with the classrooms on this side or not or right so uh we have't the initial phase three of this was a dedicated Sanctuary because right now we use a we have called a worship center which is a gym that we set up chairs and take them down uh we have nothing planned to we we actually redesigned this to where this would be the complete building right now not knowing the future so uh the initial one actually had a hallway all the way through it to go to that we actually eliminate that right now because it just didn't serve the purpose so if we ever did again that's not in the plans right now thank you I know once we get to David's report has a lot of comments in there but uh if you want to call on the rest of the board Marissa please Michael jic yeah so um the way I understand it the current uh where the kids are currently they're going to be now moved to this new area so what's going to become of the old space so the old space will likely not all be used we may have sometimes there's some uh other meeting that might go on some other group that you know but it's not uh the intention is not to use it uh it'll get used during the week maybe for some other small groups and things like that but Sunday mornings during our peak time it will probably not be used okay that's all my questions Richard Lupa yeah I have uh one one issue on H Fire and Life Safety and I'm sorry the architect's not here tonight but I don't think I think it's it's a coordination between the site plan and the architectural plan could you put the site plan back up where you show the uh the final layout with the walkways on the east side of the building you have exits from the classrooms emergency exits and the architectural plan shows it as an emergency emergency exit uh you have another plan after that that shows us the new walkway well it does this is just the next plan is a little little larger scale yeah that's that that's that's yeah this one that's drainage and the other but uh you have exits on the east side of the building there from the classrooms however every building I've ever worked in you the idea for a fire a fire exit is you go out of the building and you go as far away from the building as possible and that's always the routine you go to the back parking lot or something this one just shows the the exits on that side of the building the walkway just connects them to each other and then goes back into the dead ends in the other building I would suspect that that sidewalk has to extend the opposite way to take them away from the building in an emergency just to you know the idea the idea of the exit is you get out of the building and you get as far away as possible and every building I ever worked in you you have the fire drills where you do that and in this case got for bit there a fire they can go out those exits and the architectural plan show it the distances to the emergency exits but then you're outside the building and you're right next to the buildings and you're in a kind of of a courtyard there I think that the the sidewalk has to extend back to the back parking lot to get them away from the building you're talking about kids in a classroom it's a classroom building well frankly this is a lawn area it's not not a well it's a lawn area now but if you got a foot of snow and ice on it that should be cleared as an emergency exit to get children out of the building and away from the building completely I think you just have to extend a sidewalk out the back and make sure it's maintained and cleaned but again the architect would probably be able to address that it's a coordination between the site plan and the architectural plans but it's a I think it's an important issue when you have a classroom building the other item is on the water line coming in from the uh the easement through the through the soccer fields on the boulevard there just where the the pavement ends and the uh the gravel begins if you want to call it that you're showing a water valve and I was glad to say I went out there I wasad GL to see it's actually a fire hydrant there which is good for fire Life Safety but I think that should be flagged on the plan and maybe you need another plan just to show fire safety for the for a classroom building it shows a water valve water valve so there's a hydrant out yeah there's definitely a hydrant out there there's a hydrant there but it just doesn't show on the pl yeah it's probably just a the drafting issue wasn't turned on okay yeah just I I think that's important for uh the life safety aspect to tie in with the architectural design we'll certainly amend the plan to show that talk to the architect about but I think it's it's important that both of those things are yeah the hydrant is will go on the site plan which is my plan okay that was it thank thank you Rich Richard robacker the I don't have a question at this time I may have later Mark keep Mr Lowry on his toes Thank you Rich you're welcome Mark Scott uh yes hi was this a a a d variance originally it was a conditional use uh we didn't meet all the all all the conditions of the conditional use criteria that that Mak turns it into a d variance right it was at the time it was height Building height and uh parking and so now we're asking for an additional variance no D variance no no I don't think I I don't think you're asking for a use variance I think you had to apply just as council did but they are not asking for an additional use variance as far as I can tell because they're not triggering any any exacerbation of the conditional use standards you're not increasing the height and the other issue was parking and as I understood it and David will correct me if I'm wrong as I understood it parking is keyed to the number of seats in the sanctuary and since they're not increasing that it doesn't trigger anything however what it does is it gives you still jurisdiction over the approval because you had original jurisdiction and the planning board would not be able to hear this one as far as I'm concerned and I think that's why Mr ersen in his fertile legal mind decided that this is where it should be lodged and I absolutely agree with them and excuse me Mr Ur when was the original approval the year Mr Dy 2001 I believe was anyone on a board at that time approving that I was so I remember it yeah you're asking for a variance on the trees right you don't want to put in 12in trees why is that I don't think that was the uh there were some comments in the report I think Dave mentioned Dave mentions he' likes to see more landscaping around the addition and then he talked about the buffering to adjacent properties but I don't think that makes any sense in this case since the only Residential Properties near us uh well most of them are there actually just one half house that's on light and Lane everything else is commercial then you have the uh uh the septic Place North Jersey septic and then to our to the north there's the just Woodland so I don't think it' make any sense to put a buffer there but you have the new you new you have a new building going right up against 15 correct no no this building's set back uh well I understand from 15 no I know but the there is a new building which we fail to discuss tonight that was approved by the uh planning board just a few a few weeks ago I I don't know why it didn't come to the zoning board but I guess they just said it was an office building and then it became a permitted use and then they took it to the to the planning board that they didn't come through us because it was because they said it was a office building yeah it was permitted in that even though it's a Veterinary Hospital right I I wasn't involved but that's what I understand yes but that's not related to this application well it kind of is Right aren't you asking to use the water the water from that site is going to go into the retention Basin the water from the site we were talking about that the the new the newly approved unit the newly approved area and you're going to push your water into that retention Basin correct or not is that correct we this this site on on the adjacent lot two owned by this property there's a there's there's a detention base DET sorry that was constructed and that has an overflow that crosses houses Corner Road that was approved when uh that's actually before houses Corner Road was realigned so there but Dave Simmons asked us for more information about that detention Basin we went out and performed an updated as and uh he was satisfied with the uh the asell plan uh and it showed that there was no impact to that new approval for the veterinarian hospital you know you mentioned that it it it becomes an overflow over houses Corner Road can you explain that to me what what you're saying there well it doesn't overflow the Basin if it fills up it will flow through a pipe that goes under houses Corner Road doesn't go over houses Corner Road so it's a piping system that the actually the do put in when they realigned houses Corner Road because it was quite full the other day but then again it was raining um and and so now here we are on the aquafer and and we're we're going to pave over the corner the corner of hous Corner Road in 15 with the new office building SL veterinary hospital and then now we're going to add more improv coverage with this building correct wasn't part of this parcel or and I don't believe they detention Basin they are building their own detention Basin but that's a separate parcel we don't own that all or and I I believe their drainage I'm sorry you're why don't you why don't you let why don't you you have no I didn't qualify you as an engineer you got one of the best Engineers around I was yes and that's why I well well I I I I have not looked at the plans for that hospital so I don't but I did talk to Dave Simmons about it he said they had an infiltration based on their site as part of their storm water management plan so that's unrelated to our Basin our Basin is on our site so and that was in before that that project was ever contemplated been constructed for over 20 years for about 20 years okay um okay I look forward to hearing Dave's report Landon um I just have two comments or questions I I agree with the idea of the side walk extended to the the gravel parking lot and even once we get to the gravel parking lot maybe even continually around the rest of the Interior property like is kind of done on the other side um well but I don't think we necessarily object to running the sidewalk out but uh that I just consider get used I right that that's the one that I was referencing that oil because it's the farthest away from everything that goes on that's the the lot that rarely gets used so so but yeah we we're not opposed to to you know this the sidewalk going there connecting to that parking area but I don't think we at this point in time they really have an interest in or a need to have sidewalks connecting that to the back the sidewalks on the other part of the site and then I wanted to ask where does the current high school students go for their education and they're going to be using this space as well no they won't be because this is again going to be designed for little children even if day po will be for age appropriate up to fifth grade uh and there there's uh they meet in the upstairs primarily upstairs classrooms of the existing wing and this there's no uh again this is designed for little kids thank you that's all the questions I have for now now we can work our way back to you rich you said you might have some questions no questions this time uh then we can get to David Simmons report our board engineer David please certainly Mr chairman uh just for the record the report I'm I prepared and I'm referring to is dated February 15 2024 uh the applicant has addressed several of the items in the report but I'll just highlight some issues uh starting on page three of the report with regards to the zoning I do agree that the building that's proposed and the existing and the proposed addition do meet all the bulk requirements and as it's been indicated it's a conditional use and they are deficient in the parking so that's what triggers us here tonight as Mr Kean described uh keeping jurisdiction with this board as far as the overall site plan and future additions as they indicated tonight uh basically what you see before the board tonight is my understanding that's what they're proposing for the foreseeable future right now uh with regards to the parking and the circulation again uh originally 604 parking spaces were required uh and they're proposing what they've got now 389 the proposed addition doesn't take up any of those parking spaces so the parking lot capacity stays status quo with regards to the storm drainage uh I was involved with the review of The parcel and site where the Veterinary Hospital went and they did propose an infiltration Basin on that particular lot and one of the things uh that we had on the original set of site plans for this applicant was basically showing the existing storm drainage and Mr dyster had shown just graphically from a Outlet structure uh the concern that we had that we wanted to make sure it didn't happen was when this church was built roughly 20 years ago there wasn't a Veterinary Hospital on that adjacent lot and if this Basin had overflowed onto that triangular piece uh it wouldn't have hurt so much if you will because there were no improvements there other than the land itself now that there's been an approved site plan with an infiltration Basin we want to make sure that water from this particular detention Basin did not overflow into that and overburden that and cause a premature failure so Mr dyra prepared this working drawing uh which he sent to our office for review and basically it showed a couple things when we looked at the storm drainage report we found that uh there's a burm along the old houses Corner Road and the water level for the 100-year storm does not go into the next Basin so that issue is a non-c concern plus he verified the grades of the existing Outlet structure that if the 100-year storm does get to a certain level it'll actually go into the storm drainage that was constructed as part of the route 15 houses Corner Road realignment project and dispose of it properly so we were satisfied with the storm drainage based on the additional information that Mr Dyer's office furnished to us that I'm showing you here right now I don't know Glenn if you want to mark this or not unnecessary I guess that answers your your A and B points on on page three and four yes that was something that was submitted to you just to our office yes yes we should okay launch market is A1 but make sure that it goes into our file here at least get a photo can you make a color photo copy not now okay all right you David will give you a library card 31324 what are we going to call it dat uh dra storm drainage work sheet great prepared by Dyer Walker Design Group you marked it as A1 right buddy A1 and put 31324 on it thank you Dave would you say that that follows the best management practices that you were looking for in in one of your other memos I'm sorry could you say again the the the drainage does it follow the best water management practices that you were that you were asking for in one of your other members yes this this Basin will have some infiltration and it's an existing situation and again the the main thing is that it doesn't overflow onto the adjacent property and overburden what the calculations were for the Basin on the other property where the vet hospital is proposed and it also has an outlet structure so there's a safeguard if you will that if the storm water gets to a certain level it's going to be disposed of properly and I agree with what Mr D just said it's not going to run over houses Corner Road it'll get into the storm water drainage system of houses Corner Road should we should we refer to this building as a veterinary hospital or or an office building because Katherine sarad of the planning board said this is an office building and not a veterinary hospital and to be you know in respect to our sister board the planning board I mean they approve this with the with six variances as an office building well from the standpoint of what we're talking about here with storm drainage yes it basically impervious cover is impervious cover regardless of what's being used inside and I'm not being smart when I say that no I understand it and and I'm not being smart either I'm just trying to yeah understand why okay the and again the probably the biggest thing that the engineers in our office and I looked at when we were looking at this we wanted to make sure looking again at A1 if this Bas and if something happened that it had failed and overflowed if you will right we wanted to make sure that it wasn't going to add additional runoff to the Basin on that office or vet hospital lot and cause that to fail just like a cascading effect and based on the grades that Mr Dyer's office prepared it will not and the Safeguard in that is he also got the grades for the outlet structure that means when the water gets to a certain point it'll actually go in the storm drainage system and be conveyed away safely thank you yeah then with regards to lighting uh again the comments that we had with regards to lighting were limited basically to the proposed Edition uh I would suggest I know there was a a note on the plan that basically said uh they developed the final lighting plan during construction uh my suggestion is if the board uh acts favorably upon the application it be a condition that the lighting be designed now uh as a condition of any approval and the reason I say that is uh it's a situation where you've got to size the wire properly and later on if you had additional fixtures you might have to up the wire size etc etc so I would recommend that the board like I say is going to Grant uh approval to this that' be a condition of any approval Dave on that subject uh we could uh add some more Ballard so we had don't have the the gaps okay good so that's basically the lighting plan it's just the Ballard along the walkway that's correct Dave on the lighting yes sir and is this appropriate for me to ask these questions now or do I just wait till the end of his presentation oh okay so regards to lighting you know I'm very concerned about the lighting I I was standing in my backyard last night it was an absolutely crystal clear night I could see Orion I could see all the stars up there and you know my wife and I were were just chatting on the deck talking about how you know soon soon much of Sparta will lose that ability to do that because we are Paving over that entire area over there and and building you know Mega warehouses shopping centers veterinary hospitals classrooms and the light from the from the 247 Mega Warehouse you know is going to obviously affect that that that future that future uh ability to see the STS and that's one of the reasons I moved here I I don't I don't know if anybody else in Sparta moved here because of the stars and the and the country but I think a lot of people did and I mean I I just think that that's something that this board should be certainly concerned about and I understand what you're saying and on this particular application the lighting correct me if I'm wrong Mr dyster but the lighting we're talking about here is the low line Ballard lighting okay mainly to illuminate the sidewalks when you go back to the life safety issues and what have you God forbid it ever come into play but if it did in the middle of the night or a time of the year where it was dark uh that's why Mr Dyer just mentioned to add some more of those ballards just so there was a safe path lit up for someone to escape safely down to say the gravel parking area and they're probably three to four foot high and downward facing and and at night is it just minimal Lighting on on in the church or is it lit up is the parking lot lit up or it's lit up when cars are there but I think you I'm sure you turn off most of your lights at a certain hour and then just leave security lighting on is that correct yeah and then even those Ballers are just Illuminating a small section of sidewalk so there's really not much visible Beyond but those go off I me there won't be any Lighting on the building itself uh I don't I mean you're ask I don't believe there's much but you could drive there's security lighting that stays on um that I I couldn't answer but it's not much and there's not going to be any additional on this addition than what's already existing so the marginal lighting will not be much greater no no the only additional lighting there would be I believe just the sidewalk lighting for safety lighting and on the back side of the building of course the architect will have lights at the entrance doors there he has there has to be a light at each doorway right right on the building thanks Dave okay then moving on to the architectural plans again they mentioned in their testimony that the proposed addition the finishes As I understood are going to match the existing building to blend in uh there are some HVAC units along the Westerly side of the proposed Edition uh using that as in Dov tailing into the landscape plan uh my suggestion is that keeping the appropriate offset set off the mechanical equipment as recommended by those manufacturers there'd be some Landscaping provided just to buffer those areas so it's pleasing looking to the people in the parking lot and entering into the church property and those passing by and in addition I'd mentioned that there may be some variances U needed because the Landscaping that they proposed without going into substantial analysis probably does not meet all the requirements of the zoning uh and specific about the transitional screening and what have you but Mr dyra mentioned before that it's a relatively large track of land they own a lot of the land around it again I would suggest that they get additional landscaping around the building itself Foundation planning is just a buffer it and what have you and break it up but as far as the transitional uh screening and what have you because they own so much and there's woods behind them uh the applicant uh may want to make some more testimony to request any addition variances along Landscaping that they may request from the board then with regards to utilities I agree yes they do obtain water from the Township water system and Mr Dyer indicated that as far as their septic system goes they've had the review of the county health department and that's apparently a go with them right now for what they're proposing they're not proposing any new signage uh for this project again we talked about the Ballard light Foundation As a detail they did not provide any environmental impact statement for this addition but again as I mentioned in my completeness review the items they really had to address as far as I was concerned mainly in this case the septic system and they've made the repairs uh for Wilson Contracting to get that put in conformance with the county health department requirements uh I listed on item number 14 of the report several different agencies and divisions of the Township offices that they have to get approval from uh ultimately for any approval the board may consider and as we usually recommend they provide an asilt plan if the board approves it and the facility is constructed just so there's a record of everything for the township for future years and that's my report thank you David Mr Dyer would you want to address David's comments on this potential transitional screening variance or variances yes well the the ordinance does require transitional screening when uh when a conditional use is buts up to a traditional use like and in this case uh M and and North is kind of facing mostly up on this sheet but uh so to to the Northeast uh on our our sub property alone we have wooded wooded land before the property line and then beyond that is uh is more wooded land and then there's a that that's a new cleared area that call it a farm now if you I don't know if you've seen that on Hass Corner Road they cleared cleared a lot of forest and it's a farm some kind of farm I forget the name of it um and then the only other so there's no point in US adding any screening in that direction it would be pointless because we have Forest behind us and uh if you go to the east uh you're basically we or the church owns the balance of that property for probably 2,000 ft all the way up then then you go up the mountain to which is completely forested so there would be no place to no would be pointless to add screening there and uh as I mentioned we also have wooded land on our between this site and Leighton Lane and that there's only one house uh nearby on Leighton Lane and there's already a there's a there's a grade differential and and a wooded a substantial wooded area between this this property and that that house so there's really and next to that is North Jersey septic so I don't think we'd want need to buffer them um maybe vice versa but uh so that's my uh that's my reasoning that I don't think that I don't even know it's applicable actually to this case given the situation on this property but if it is uh we would like the uh the relief to not install I'm sorry that's a condition of a conditional use Dave make your pardon that was a condition of the conditional use I'd have to check but I don't think so because they would have had is a condition well you would have had to address that at the time you did your original that that's right there was a full landscape plan approved with the original application so backing up where Dave is going does anything that you're doing tonight affect this issue no that I was going to point out that we did have an approval for there was a landscape plan that was approved for the overall project with the original variances and uh we you know we don't have we don't beet 30% of the board already looked at it and the board already made a decision on it and that's the point but David should call it out just to make sure there's no changes so Dave was just doing his job the last question I have for you is yeah this is still a conditionally permitted use I've already indicated that the height obviously isn't triggered the parking isn't triggered under the standards all the other conditional use standards you're still lined up and meeting all of those and I just want you to state that on the record please yes we meet all all the other conditional standards okay other than the parking in the hike good thank you I'm done Mr chairman so bottom line no tradition uh transitional screening variants necessary then no because you already decided it the ordinance okay no trees no they want to put trees in they certainly can but the fact is it's already the sites already been approved they're doing nothing to trigger it no standard has been changed unless I'm Dave if I'm missing something tell me not that I know they've called it out just to put it in but you already the board already took action on this at least on one other occasion and maybe several other occasions oh there are going to be trees so we are landscaping around the new edition so there's a right there's that's the foundation stuff and then more Landscaping that Dave has required yeah and that's the foundation things that are triggered by this application is Dave's whole point okay I get it is that what you were looking for Dave yes I I looked at this application quite frankly as as a limited area that we're dealing with this addition right and when you look at the uh addition uh based on what was proposed for landscaping I had a couple concerns number one it's always nice to break up the foundation especially on a relative ly large addition like this number two as I mentioned before a lot of their HVAC units are right along the ground uh again respecting and staying the offsets that are required from the manufacturer for appropriate ventilation for different HVAC units and what have you it's nice to buffer them if you can just so they're not right out in front of I was going to say God and everybody but I guess that's appropriate here so you're not you're not out there in that area just looking at Machinery if you will they've got a beautiful church and it's nice to have it buffered like that it is it is nice to have a buffer there and and as far as the other areas I know uh they've got their Recreation fields and what have you and in some areas here you've got the storm water detention Basin that we talked about plus I know you've got the township of Sparta's water transmission main going through here we don't want to put any landscaping or trees on that uh that Corridor has to be kept open because it's the lifeblood of the Town coming in from Germany Flats is it best practic is not to put trees around a detention Basin uh you know different types of basins but for maintenance purposes and something like this I would leave that open uh from the standpoint that when I've been out there and going down their Boulevard and what have you it's nice to be able to look over to that and see all right the water level is at a certain level everything is evacuating out of the Basin within the require 72 hours etc etc the normal best management practices from d and if something isn't working right you you're be able to see it the problem I've seen sometimes if you put anything as far as trees in the Basin itself the next thing you know you've got leaves coming down potentially clogging the outlet structure and then you've got a whole different set of problems is it is it best practices at the detention Basin I I think you alluded to that has to drain to nothing every 72 hours normally if it's 72 hours after a rainstorm or something yes on on a certain specific size storm it's supposed to evacuate within 72h hour period if it doesn't then what happens there might be uh some clogging someplace and the applicants consultant and their contractor might have to go in uh excavate the area if something's clogged up and reconstruct the bottom of it so so it does in fact uh let the water quality storm out in no longer than 72 hours so who in the town makees sure that that happens I mean I drive up woodport Road and I see the new beautiful detention Basin put in by below the Asin hooker building and that's really like a new Lake in our town because that i' rarely see that go out well one of the things one of the things uh I'm pretty sure I put in the reports that I've sent to the board on different site plans this is a little unique because it's an existing Basin but in the D regulations they require an operation and maintenance manual and basically in that operation and maintenance manual they have forms that say all right after a certain size Storms Come Through you're supposed to go out and check and make sure the outlet structure isn't blocked uh there's no uh the grates are in place it drained within the 72 hours if that's the appropriate case somebody initials it and what have you and makees sure and the property owner basically is responsible for that now on sites like this the operation and maintenance manual actually gets recorded in the chain of title for the property and the reason for that is uh this is a little unique here but it would be uh Sparta Evangelical Free Church Inc to Sparta Evangelical Church Inc just so it's in the chain of title and one of the reasons the D wants that done is because not so much in this case but let's say the church sold it to Acme company well when Acme company goes to buy this they're going to have their due diligence and they're going to do a title search on the property and that operation and maintenance manual that it's in the chain of title that'll show up in the title search and they'll look at it and they'll say oh we've got to maintain this Basin and it brings it to their attention and sometimes what happens and I looked one of these up for uh the planning board today as a matter of fact um I looked up one as an example for BWB Holdings beyonde the new uh Investment Company down the street they've got their Basin in the front and in the verbiage for that it said they're responsible for the maintenance and protection of it but they also named the township of Sparta as a third party beneficiary not necessarily that the township has to do anything but if there was a public health issue involved they could go in there and do something so there's no one on the in the town that enforces that these things drain within 72 hours it's just it's just like it's just the property owners the theal responsib theoretical responsibility yes to stay on top of that that's right and that's why you have that operation and maintenance manual is there any concern that since we're going to be putting more impervious coverage more water over to the detention Basin that you've got children playing on the soccer field next to the detention Basin if I'm correct is there any thing that inhibits those children from going in to play in the water or to the ball goes in the water what happens then well it's h you know it's it's just a detention Basin it only holds water for short periods of time uh no different than uh you know if you had a pond next to your property the children on there's only so much protection you can do could you fence this yes but you know I I wouldn't recommend it okay all right thanks any other questions from the board members yeah I had another question on on on the shank price letter uh do looking for the verification of taxes and assessments in support of the planning board application it says that the applicant is perona realy Corporation coration perona realy Corporation I thought the church was a nonprofit and perona realy Corporation is a for-profit corporation it's paying thousands of dollars of taxes in other locations sure that was just a typographical error from a previous I don't think there's a Protestant in that family any other questions Mark no sir thank you I'll now open it to the public if anyone has any comments or questions please come forward you know when in the public it's now closed and back to our hearing again no other questions this point no questions all right the chair will entertain a motion approving the application usually our vice chairman does it but he's not here tonight and no one else does I can uh I'll I'll make a motion to no we have to we have to get someone to do the motion there's a lot in here oh is there no I don't all the details are in there all right the chair will make a motion uh to have our board attorney prepare resolution approving application 1-24 block 170 01 lot 3 fora Evangelical Free Church D variant mended uh amended preliminary site plan to construct a 10,440 ft building Edition for classrooms with the following conditions lighting Plan B completed as part of the site plan all points in our board Engineers report David Simmons be adhered to also as Bill plans be provided upon completion of the project and that's according to all plans and testimony submitted here tonight David did you have any other potential conditions we covered it all the only other items uh Mr chairman that I noted were brought up tonight was uh show the fire hydrant that's not in my report just so that shows up on the revised plan and the extension of the sidewalk uh to the gravel parking areas discussed by Mr Lara and applicant accepts that right we do chairman I think the application and Council can correct me if I'm wrong it's for conditional use reaffirmation I think and that's why I asked Mr dyster the question along with the no change in the use variance part of it but the board retains its jurisdiction it's I think preliminary and amended preliminary and final site plan John right agre okay you don't agree you don't disagree with that and I don't think there were any ancillary C variances on this at all so I think I think that's what you actually need I think just amending your motion Mr chairman just so it's clear that's all right thank you Glenn Marissa I'll second it any discussion no thanks uh you're very and you're your motion maybe I wasn't as focused on it as I should have been but you you did wave the trees did I do what you did mention that you are G to wave the trees oh that's in that we are waving the trees David had mentioned in his uh reports and so forth on on that there was no motion on on that for me okay oh all right yeah so the trees stay no the trees go they're they're asking for a variance on the trees aren't they they're they're I brought up the issue as far as um if there was a waiver variance needed for the 30% uh planning Mass uh and the transitional screening and I think Mr dyster put testimony on the board requesting that relief to the extent it may be necessary if at all if if at all because the board already acted on it right and what what they are correct me if I'm wrong what they are agreeing to do is to provide additional landscaping around the proposed addition so that there's additional found Foundation screening around the foundation of the addition and also around the mechanical equipment to help buffer and soften it that'll be subject to your final review and approval yes if that's all right with the board yeah thank you David all right more but no 12in trees no what trees no 12in trees no additional trees no no that's the variance right because the tree well again they had a site plan that had a roughly 20 years ago that had a landscaping plan I didn't see that but Mr Dyer indicated they had put it on and what they're basically doing now is just doing this little micro area if you will the property and we're concentrating on that as far as putting the additional Foundation plantings along the mechanical equipment and the foundation to soften that so we're sure that all those plantings that were given that were in the in the approval 20 years ago are are still in this plan yes oh yeah yeah and substantially I'm not sure you know I didn't do an as built of it more recently in 20 years uh there may be more actually and there may be some shade trees may not have survived uh but then the church may I think they actually landscaped more in front of the building than was originally approved or required around the current building so it's uh I'm going to say we substantially the plan still the project still substantially conforms to the original approved uh landscape design and the landscape design was also for the entire buildout the phase phase one through three so just like the parking was okay Mark Marissa please call the role Michael jic yes Rich laua yes Richard robacker yes Mark Scott no lenon teneri yes chairman Kenneth Larry yes all your applications been approved good luck with everything Mr chairman rest of the board thank you times we appreciate the consideration luck Council how fast do you folks want to get started on on this can you wait a month John that's a simple question coming to the uh idea Glenn of waving the written resolution on this I don't know whether spring is in the air so I just have no idea what glad I I appreciate the I appreciate you bringing it up thank they they would like to try and get building permits moving as early as possible since all of a sudden we wake up today in beautiful building weather Spring is in the air spring is in the air is the board the board willing to allow them to wave receipt of the resolution and they can proceed at their own risk so moved have a second second second so if you wave the resolution there's a 45 day period right where someone could object to the yep to the approval that we gave that this board gave tonight yes okay so if they wait so how does the time frame change it's 45 days from today or it's 45 days 45 days has nothing to do with they're proceeding at their own risk and that means they can go pull building permits if somebody wants to appeal it and somebody ultimately a year and a half from now wins in court then they'd have to go back to start all over again are proceeding at their own risk the fact is they had no objectors there were no rival congregations coming out Pastor uh there was there was nothing else happening here so quite frankly for me not to have brought something like that up given the season and sometimes you know when we're preparing I've been in John's position a lot of times you just this is just something I think it's my responsibility to bring up if it's helpful to an applicant that's all call the roll on it no it's just just all in favor and I think you had an all in favor pretty much I guess right all those in favor please signify by saying I he opposed good luck John good luck thank you good night good job guys just one uh thing Marissa is it possible forther chair here if you can contact the mayor council and roxan on the open alternate one position get an update and when they're going to eventually Elevate Landon to alternate one okay if you don't mind yeah I'll talk to exan tomorrow all right thank you any other uh points to bring up before we adjourn anybody else in the public want to say s that was closed oh over here at the bottom there now does anyone in the public have any comments or questions about items that were not on the agenda tonight oh esire property Lake oh it's not okay I'm sorry I don't know how that I'm sorry you had to well you got to see a nice application uh they're not going tonight I was on in touch with we were both in touch with the applicant I suspect you're not going to hear from them until to the May till the May hearing sir and I think they're going to do a new notice too they're re noticing everything again again okay sorry oh I would have to you you can give me the address and I'll let uh you have to go to actually the tax assessor's office to revise your uh address that that means what it means is your address in Sparta Township is on the books wrong she's all right but that's what she doesn't have anything to do with it yeah you just have to go to the tax's office and they can fix it for you okay but they'll take your money okay no other questions all right you're welcome the board will entertain a motion adjourning the meeting motion second everyone in favor I thank you well I'm the facto Catherine Madison last year last