City commission meeting of the city of St Pete Beach today is Wednesday February 21st 2024 it is 4 p.m. let's stand for the pledge of allegiance of Al the United States of America and to the repic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all city clerk if you please do a wall call commissioner marott here commissioner Philz here commissioner as Nikki here vice mayor lenen here mayor patrilla here we have a quorum thank you all right do we have any amendments to the agenda as proposed can I get a motion to approve the agenda please I'll move to approve the agenda for February 21st 2024 I second city clerk if you'll please to a roll call commissioner Philz yes commissioner as Nikki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries thank you city clerk do we have any audience comments I don't have any general comments okay thank you okay with that we'll move to item three resolution quas itial hearing on resolution 2023-24 21 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of St Pete Beach Florida approving a conditional use permit pursuant to sections 35.3 B1 and 35 4B of the Land Development code to allow the construction of a 290 temporary lodging Unit 10 story 115 ft 6in tall hotel with rooftop features not to exceed 127 F 6 in in total height from base flood elevation on the Northern portion of the site and a30 temporary lodging Unit 8 story 88 ft 6in tall h hotel with rooftop features not to exceed 100 ft 6 in from base flood elevation H BL fot elevation Hotel on the southern portion of the site along with ancillary and accessory structures and permit a rooftop dining and drinking amenity that includes the playing of outdoor music to parcel number 06 3216 81 7200 010 with e with addresses of 5300 5350 5380 and 5390 Gulf Boulevard incorporating the conditions outlined herein and providing for correction of scrivener's error and an effective date thank you Mr City attorney yes uh thank you mayor if I could just make a few quick just preliminary comments um that would be helpful um as you know this is a quasi judicial hearing special set um in order to hear this resolution for the conditionally used permit um the process itself generally the way that the uh the agenda would follow is that the uh City staff uh professional planners here would present the item uh go over their staff report um talk about any conditions that uh that are um part of the recommendation their recommendation itself um you may ask them questions uh either once they conclude their presentation or if you want to wait until after all the presentations are done you can do that too or you can do both after the uh City staff is finished uh then the applicant will go um they have uh attorneys and experts here uh they will make their presentation uh typically they'll want to reserve some time for rebuttal so one of the things you might want to do is ask them how much time they need um and then you would open it up for public comment and then You' go through the public comment as you know there are a couple of organizations that um have requested special status or party status or intervener status however you want to call it um one of the things that the city has done is adopted procedures for public comments where if there are organizations you know they get more than the general three minutes that's allotted to an individual um and then I think there are other procedures for allowing people to offer time but some of that is discretionary for you all to decide you know okay we'll give you whatever amount of time but generally speaking the parties to this uh quasa judicial hearing is the applicant in the city um the city code itself does not have any criteria um for which to designate somebody as an intervenor party or an affected party or an interested party so therefore I'd recommend that you not try to make up any kind of uh procedure or criteria for doing that I would just rely on um the principal of fairness and due process in terms of like giving uh and following the procedures that we've adopted for public speaking uh at these hearings uh to do that um and then again you know follow your instincts in terms of like fairness and due process and uh giving people the ability to address whatever it is they want to address of course without being redundant uh the other thing would be that once uh public comment is finished the applicant would obviously may want to have some time for rebuttal um you may want to work that out with them when they get up first and ask them uh how much time they need for their case and Chief and then how much they would like for rebuttal um and then the other thing that I want to mention to you is also uh is the idea of EX party Communications okay so one of the things that has um been adopted via Florida statute and this is Florida statute [Music] 2860153 approached and people will want to talk to you about things that are going to come before you and that the the statute itself was adopted in order for you as a local public official to be able to talk and discuss with people matters that come before you in that it wouldn't be deemed prejudicial so long as you disclose it here at the public hearing um unlike you know in a Judicial setting judges are not to be having private conversations with people this is a quasi Judicial System uh it's understood that you know people are going to come and speak to you so the way that uh the statute um outlines that is that um any person may discuss with any local public official that would be you the merits of any matter on which uh action may be taken by board or Commission on which local public off official is a member um the following procedures shall remove the presumption of prejudice arising from what is called an exp party communication with with local public officials uh as long as the substance of the communication in the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place um it goes on to say that you know if you receive written Communications you're allowed to do that but as long as you make that part of the record and in the past I've recommended to you all that if you do receive things that just send it to the clerk and then it'll be made part of the record um local public officials May conduct investigations and site visits and may receive expert opinions regarding quasa judicial action pending before them except for they must disclose all of that so the idea and and by the way this has been also almost verbatim adopted into uh your code of ordinances as well you know this idea of just disclosing is the way of um being able to cure if you will any presumption of prejudice that you've had any discussions now the city has gone a step further as you know we've adopted our our lobbyist ordinance um a few years ago where if somebody is here to uh being compensated in in you they were to register with the city clerk and as a lobbyist and then there are people that who they are lobbying including yourselves are required to submit Lobby uh log showing who you've been who who has approached you and you've had discussions with all of this is in the uh the spirit of transparency and good faith and being able so the public has the ability to know who's uh talking with the people that are going to make the decisions and so forth and so on so as you get started with this procedure uh the first thing you should do is go through and disclose any exart communication persuant to statute and also persuant to your city code um sufficient enough so that anybody that would be affected by any of that ex party communication or information would have the ability to know about it and to ask questions should they want to so so hopefully that gives you enough information about the ex party communication um I think the public policy behind it is a good one because it's very difficult for you all as public officials to be in your capacity and not be approached by someone who wants to talk to you about an issue that's going to come before you especially something as um important as the one that's going to be before you tonight so um with that uh hopefully that answers the question about EXP party communication um again I'll reiterate uh the sub the subject of the communication and the identity of the person group or entity with whom the communication took place um the individuals who are going to be testifying in front of you all uh like experts um cities experts the the applicants experts when I say experts I'm talking about people that are maybe traffic experts planners AR ARS things who have expert information that they want to provide to you will do so under oath and the clerk will administer the oath and um those are the individuals that are going to provide to you the substantive information that um should they should be addressing the criteria that is that this cup is to be reviewed under and that is considered expert testimony that you would want to weigh and give weight to as to whether or not they are providing you enough information factual information that is uh relevant to the criteria and you all have seen the criteria it's in the staff report laid out um as to lawyers uh lawyers are here to make legal arguments or to address procedural issues uh lawyers can are not allowed to be uh giving expert testimony on a uh subject matter like for example you know planning or design Urban Design or natural resources or something like that so keep that in mind um you know so and then with regard to the public um the public is definitely important in this process public participation especially um when you have public comment that is uh factbase and uh can be as as personal to that individual uh can be considered as uh lay testim considered lay witness testimony it's uh you have to give it its own weight um it's very different than someone who is qualified as an expert like a civil engineer or um an urban planner uh or so forth and so on but it it is testimony that you can take into consideration but it should be given uh the proper weight as opposed to from experts so at the end of the day uh you will be hopefully looking uh at the criteria that's going to be explained to you that you've had a chance to read also in the staff report and also whether or not you're getting enough information from expert test testimony that says whether or not that criteria has been met so with that uh happy to answer any procedural questions or if you want to just get started we can do that too any questions all right let's get started was that sufficient yes sir okay thank you shall we start with the next party yes which side however you want to do it you looking this way sure um so I uh have met with a number of residents um both in person I've spoken to a number of residents on the phone I've met with um some members of the protect St P Beach group although um I don't think any of them were were representing the group as a whole um I've met with the um lawyers for the developer I've met with a representative from the cart condominium and uh um and on their site [Music] um and then of course the the uh dozens of um email correspondents that um that I and I think we all have received as well thank you okay um I've walked the property I've researched Columbia Sussex and Associated individuals research JW Marriot spoke to planning board members spoke to other board members um reviewed the comp plan Land Development code I watched numerous previous commission meetings including the December 5th hearing and planning board meeting met with staff U met with lobbyists reviewed emails from protect St Pete Beach reviewed protect St P Beach's website uh met with applicants counsel and spoke to their architect reviewed documents uh that were submitted um staff report Etc met with residents condo and homeowners uh met with condo board members met with the VP at the C Mark Mike Gordon uh spoke to Lisa Reich of saving Wildlife now spoke to Residents many residents on the phone reviewed social media and read numerous numerous emails um ones that came in within the past 24 48 hours I didn't have as much time to review as I would have liked but I've reviewed many of the emails commissioner um so I've been involved or I've heard many much testimony um probably since the the first first community meeting so I've been to all the commission meetings where this hearing had take place in the audience obviously not as a commissioner I've met with um applicants lawyer and their team um and spoke to other people with the applicant um can't remember all their names but we met about three times I think it was between the phone and in person met with um many staff um in the city of St Pete Beach um I met with I can't even tell you how many residents I've went to three different Association meetings um between Leo Beach um boa Sands um the Donar um so numerous I did a walk through through C Mark met with Mike Gordon um I walked the property I um gosh I don't know how many how many emails we got we got a lot of emails plus I read emails from those from the past too um so I went through some of those some of them repetitive but went through all of those um I think that's about it so I watched the December 5th video twice planning board video I've watched in depth uh I've talked with members of the historic board um I've got some slides on uh Turtle advocacy let's see I've actually parked at the condo across the street from sarata about 10 times and just stared at that whole property um I've met with Jolin Larson from protect St Pete Beach the director of that group I've obviously met with the S excuse me the Sado lawyers also Mike Gordon from the C Mark we walked that property and then I held a meet and greet for D4 residents where the subject came up um among other subjects thank you all right I have attended the applicants community meeting I attended the planning board meeting I was here for the previous commission meeting on December 5th I reviewed documents from the applicant from TRC from the planning board hearing I rewatched the planning board hearing reviewed the Land Development code comprehensive plan the documents submitted for the records of this hearing um roughly 2,000 Pages just for that I've had several conversation with City staff current and former fot staff I've received um reviewed and received a few hundred emails from residents I've met with members of the public individual and in groups uh at community and Association meetings I feel like I've been left out from the C Mark I didn't get to tour the property uh I did attend one of their uh HOA meetings um I've met with one advocacy group I've met with the applicant their representatives and I've received several emails from the applicants attorney their lobbyists and staff city clerk would you care to do the saring in please I will do you swear or affirm that the information or factual representation that you are about to give is truthful I think if uh if you're going to testify please stand raise your right hand same if you're going to be giving the audience comment please stand raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the information or factual representation that you're about to give or present is truthful thank you all right City staff I believe you're up good evening I'm Brandon Barry one of your city planners tonight's case is case number 2353 this is a conditional use permit there's Associated resolution 20 2321 the property is serata St Pete Beach at 5300 5350 5380 and 5390 Gul Boulevard the applicant is requesting a new large scale lodging development and rooftop dining drinking and music area the owner applicant is St CP St Pete LLC represented by Elise Bates choire care of sterms Weaver Miller this is a two-part request the first is to permit the construction of a 290 temporary lodging unit 10-story 115t 6in tall hotel with rooftop features not to exceed 127 ft 6 in in total height from base flood elevation that's on the Northern portion of the site on the southern is 130 temporary lodging unit 8-story 88t 6 in tall hotel with rooftop features not to exceed 100t 6 in from base flood elevation along with ancillary and accessory structures which will increase total site density to 646 units that's just under 75 units per buildable acre and exceed 50 ft in height for new construction this request is made pursuant to Land Development code section 35.3 B1 the second part of the request is to permit a rooftop dining and drinking amenity that includes the playing of outdoor music this request is made pursuant to Land Development code section 35.4 B so just to get everyone up to speed on the application timeline the applicant held two Community meetings back in April of last year the second one met the noticing requirements for a City community meeting on June 20th the applicant made complete their application for request number one again that was for the new lodging development July 5th was a technical Review Committee for that first request the applicant resubmitted additional documents along with an amended application on August 28th that included the request for the rooftop dining drinking and music area staff held a technical Review Committee for request number two on November 1st there was a planning board hearing on November 13th it was recommended to the city commission 4 to one I will go into more detail on that in a moment December 5th was the first city commission hearing the case was continued to January 10th where it was rescheduled to tonight on February 5th staff noticed the 361 unique Property Owners within 500 ft there was a legal ad posting on February 7th and February 12th staff posted signs at the property here's a listing of exhibits so I just wanted to go briefly over both the definition and the description of a conditional use permit in these City's code um pursuant to Land Development codee Division 2 which is the city's definition division conditional use means a use that is operational physical and other characteristics that may be different from those of the predominant permitted use in a zoning District but which is a use that complements or may otherwise be compatible with the intended overall development within a district provided that specified standards are met in division four which is the conditional use permit division certain uses are conditional rather than uses by right they are subject to the conditional use regulations because they may but do not necessarily have significant adverse effects on the environment Public Services the desired character of an area or they may create nuisances a review of these uses is necessary due to the impact they may have on the surrounding area or neighborhood the conditional use review provides an opportunity to allow the use when there are minimal impacts to allow the use but imposed mitigation measures to address identified concerns or to deny the use if the concerns cannot be resolved here's an a map of the property it's located at the Western 5300 block of Gulf Boulevard so here's a site plan showing request number one moving from north to south along the site on the northern part of the site currently there exists a six story uh temporary lodging development part of the serata development there's also a northern wing of the serata development the applicant is proposing to demolish the Northern six-story building as well as a northern portion or Northern Wing rather of the sarata and construct a new 10-story development again that would be 115 ft 6 in with rooftop facilities that will contain 290 temporary lodging units in the center of the site is the existing remodeled sarata this is currently 8 story 73 ft in height there would be no change to that 226 units would be the result after the demolition it is currently 382 units and they are also proposing renovated facilities particularly the pool facade and restaurant at the southern side of the development is a proposed hotel number three this would be proposed to be eight stories 88t 6 in with rooftop facilities and contain 130 units and again 646 units across the entire site this is showing request number two this is for the rooftop dining drinking and music area this is a staff graphic it's an overlay of floor plan just to give you a sense of what the location of this um drinking area this is the northern hotel hotel one uh North is to the top of the screen South is to the bottom of the screen uh the area in green at the bottom left of the screen is where the music and the dining is proposed to be located that is on floor four um the there is a t-shape to the hotel that rises up to to block this area from the north and from the East and you can see that in red there there is no rooftop dining or customer space proposed for the top of floor 10 it is only that green area and this rendering hopefully shows a little bit better where that area is proposed to be it's on the southwest side of the proposed Hotel one so going back to the planning board hearing again this took place in November uh it was recommended for to1 to the city commission at that hearing staff had found adequate support for 13 out of 20 criter IA and we had found partial support for seven out of 20 criteria we had asked uh the applicant for additional support for those remaining seven criteria add and following the hearing the applicant provided additional support for the seven criteria which staff found was adequate to make a recommendation of approval the planning board recommended again the case 4 to1 to the city commission with conditions and just briefly going through those seven criteria for which staff had found partial support starting off with criteria 4.4 a2d whether the application will have significant adverse impacts on the livability and usability of nearby land due to noise late night operations or safety issues um staff found that that was adequately addressed through valet service being provided on the Northern side of Hotel one the applicant was willing to provide photo documentation prior to and vibration monitoring during construction that was made a condition storm water mitigation requirements of the fdot in Southwest Florida Water Management District substantially exceed the local that have been in concern of staffs and the applicant has supplied an assessment from a wind consultant engineer stating that no significant degradation of wind Comfort at se Mark is expected the second criteria that staff found partial support for was whether the transportation system was C capable of adequately supporting the proposed use in addition to existing uses in the area valuation factors include Street capacity and level of service at the pl sorry prior to the planning board hearing staff had asked for the applicant to amend their traffic study to include derived peak hour Saturday counts adjusted to peak season those have been collected in August 20123 they were adjusted to peak season the city had a transportation expert look at the study uh they did Express agreement with a procedure analysis and conclusion in the amended traffic analysis that was made part of your packet excuse me Brandon yes uh would you mind clarifying for us what do you mean by full support versus partial support partial support was I there were outstanding staff concerns on those seven criteria that were brought to the planning board and we had asked for additional testimony and support from the applicant to provide adequate support for for those seven items so would you say you have a full resolution or just partial resolution to provide partial support or I'm just trying to understand what that means it is full resolution we are I'm recommending approval of this I understand but what I'm what I'm trying to understand is when you say there's seven 13 in one case seven in the other where you said there's partial support for 7even out of the 20 yes is it still partial at this time no it's not okay thank you sure the third criteria to which staff had concerns was whether the minimum off street parking area required would be provided and would function properly and safely uh this Project's proceed plan to proceed not in phases but with the Northern Hotel beginning construction the hotel 3 um undertaking construction while Hotel one is is under construction so there there were staff concerns about the ability for parking to be provided throughout the various portions of the development of the the lot uh we did talk with the applicant and we found that there were solutions that could be handled either on site or on the two distance lots that the applicant currently maintains to ensure that there is adequate parking for the operational facilities while construction takes place criteria 4.4 A6 was whether the applicant had demonstrated the financial and Technical capability to complete any improvements and mitigation necessitated by the development is proposed the applicants applied a write up to staff on November 7th listing a number of Columbia Sussex corporations developed and operated Resorts staff also made a condition of the resolution that any finding of Financial and Technical capacity extends solely to Columbia Sussex Corporation during the development so if the project were to be sold off at any point during development it would need a return of the City commission for another Finding of Technical and financial capability I did also want to point out that the applicant after the prior December fifth meeting did submit a proof of funds letter from their bank I will get to that in just a moment uh the fifth criteria 4.12 A1 prevention of any unreasonable and disproportionate negative impacts on utility infrastructure including sanitary sewer we do have a public works director who can speak broadly about this again we this is something that's typically Ally handled at the site plan stage the applicant did submit instantaneous flow calculations which our city engineer has looked over but this is something that would be checked over in concurr for concurrency purposes at the site plan stage if this use is approved staff also added a condition that if any offsite improvements are required the developer is fully responsible for the actual and documented cost of those improvements the six criteria 4.12 A4 aesthetic and Architectural features of the development including design and appearance of building facades staff had a few concerns particularly about the porcet on the front of the S hotel as well as the frontage design of Hotel 3 again this was at the planning board hearing when this came forward to the city Commission on December 5th there had been a more involved request for um updated renderings which have been provided by the applicant I'll show those in just a moment and finally the seventh criteria for which staff had found partial support of the planning board hearing 4.12 A9 four projects of the size the amount of Separation provided between the proposed temporary lodging use and any existing building on adjoining properties and the resulting impact on sunlights and sunlight and Views staff had requested from the applicant a shade study they have provided that the shade study shows the most significant impact on the C Mark building at winter equinox shade would be over half of the building at 10: a.m. but the shade does clear the building by 12:00 p.m. and that was also included in your packet hey Brandon before you move on the uh top bullet on the last slide um it talks about uh it's kind of got a dot dot dot there I think at least on the slide I'm looking at but when I read through that it talked a little bit about uh views and Vistas and that type of thing um is there like a legal definition either in the LDC or the comprehensive plan that talks about views um and Vistas like how far you have to be from Neighbors or that's type if you're going to get to that we can wait sure I I could I could talk about it now um we do talk a few of the conditions relate to that but we I could talk about it now so part of the city settlement in 2015 was the addition of multiple and it's they're in the comprehensive plan they're also the final two criteria that were added in as part of that settlement talking about views maintaining views from the neighbors maintaining views in vce generally the city adopted two standards related to that into its large Reserve development when those conditional use permit criteria and um comprehensive plan policies were adopted one of them is requirement for properties located adjacent to that are in the large resort District that are located to adjacent properties that are outside the community redevelopment district and that only applies to one property it's the northernmost property in the large resort District they have an increased rear setback compared to all the other structures in the large resort District this property has a rear setback of the Coastal Construction Control line which which is met the other criteria that was added in as part of that settlement was the allowance for the city commission and let me just double check the exact language but um if there's a finding that it's in the public interest the side setback for the portions of the building over 50 fet in height can be offset by more than the 30 feet that's required so those are the two practical standards that were put into the code when it wasend in 2015 at the time that the comprehensive plan was amended with the views and Vista standard so is there any provision for properties L that are East like AC cross Golf Boulevard that type of thing blocking their views or VES I'm I'm not familiar with that in terms of any kind of zoning dimensional standard now okay so thank you on the same line Brandon I know at the last December 5th meeting we had asked the applicant for sketches graphs rendering something that showed the current views versus what the views would be after the proposed building if we were that we build did we receive anything along those lines not that I'm aware of thank you so I wanted to get back to that update following the December 5th City commission hearing on what the applicant has supplied uh they have supplied updated renderings particularly of the hotel 3 I'll show the front of that in just a moment they have provided a wind impact letter I say a bank credit letter up here but I actually meant to say a proof of funds letter um for CP St Pete LLC and its Affiliates staff has also added a few conditions pertaining to maintenance of large scale development amenities Mitigation Of telecommunication service degradation the C Mark caused by development minimum quality ratings for hotel one and hotel 3 and requirements for doing walkovers and expanded easement next to the wet sand line I I'll highlight these when I go through the conditions in just a moment so this is the first of the three updated documents that we received showing the updated rendering you can see on the right side of the screen that that was what was shown previously at the prior City commission meeting it had been asked that the um design be updated and the one on the left hand side is is what the applicant has submitted as an updated design uh these were also included in your packet the applicant prepared a win consultation letter from wind engineering Consultants this was responded to staff requests to determine potential significant changes to C Mark residents perception of wind Comfort the letter found that wind conditions remaining similar to current existing conditions um if there were slight increases they are not sufficient to affect users's perception of wind comfort and should not necessitate any alterations to the current design of the development that's a summary of what was included in your packets in this letter Brandon a question on that um is that is that study a full analysis it's not a full wind study we had asked for just a letter an opinion it was signed by two Engineers from the consulting firm but it wasn't a full study okay thank you as for the bank proof of funds the applicant has supplied a bank proof of funds letter showing the owner CP St Pete LLC and its Affiliates have more than $200 million in liquidity Huntington Bank who completed this letter has also provided an indication interest for construction financing of JW marot can you go back a second because I was trying to read this of course sure and I don't know um as far as um I have a question about you know the names but I might wait until they present on on who is um CP St P LLC I know that's not something you're going to be able to answer but I'll I'll ask when you guys present thank you so again uh staff finds that the applicant has applied adequate support for the 20 conditional use permit criteria staff recommends approval with conditions subject to the applicant resolving any concerns that arise among the city commission related to the conditional use permit criteria so I wanted to go through the recommended conditions um any conditions that have been added or significantly changed since the December 5th meeting are highlighted in red text and again if you have any questions about these these are all summaries in the resolution they are complete but if you have any questions feel free to just stop me I'd be happy to answer starting off with the rooftop dining music requirements rooftop dining is permitted only on level four of Hotel one except for the amendment of this condition additional use permit so if the applicant in the future ever wishes to offer any new kind of rooftop dining or music they would need to return to the city commission for that request and again that is in that area that I showed earlier in the presentation all rooftop equipment shall be permanent there shall be no visiting musici equipment permitted the applicant must allow noise tests before operating limit decel levels of the property line to be equivalent with ambient and provide a sound governor with Lo lock box accessible only by management moving on to administrative project review requirements the applicant is responsible for the actual and documented cost of off-site improvements to accommodate sewer flows the applicant shall pay and the city shall perform the work the side plan shall be substantially similar to the one under reviewed tonight if it's approved no increases in height density number of floors setback encroachments and so on or permitted without permission of the city commission the city code already has standards related to what needs to return to the city commission so that condition doesn't necessarily cover everything it just makes it stricter to see to more or less confirm that what you're seeing on the plans would be in line with what you would be getting at at final approval condition six applicant shall prepare renderings for inclusion in the building permits that match the current renderings in terms of building design and Landscaping that would be made part of the permit package to ensure that if the design is approved by the commission if you're accepting of what's been shown it would look like what it's being shown as tonight this is a new condition that was added the applicant shall provide a covenant ensuring that the properties function together is one large resort development regardless of future subdivision I did want to note that if there ever is any kind of subdivision of the site it is currently unified as one parcel it would need to return to the city commission actually twice you would be reviewing both the preliminary and the final subdivision plaid so there's no option for them to move forward with any kind of subdivision without future city commission approval that that's not proposed tonight it's proposed to be developed one as one site but this would ensure that if that were to come forward at any point in the future under this commission or one in the future um it would need to remain as one functional site under a covenant sorry go ahead um if I remember correctly from the meeting what was discussed was a condition of no future subdivision so a restrictive covenant or deed restriction there would prohibit future subdivision which this is a below that okay if if that's the direction the commission would like to go absolutely we we when we had spoken with them it was subdivision for the purposes of of ownership but the Covenant would tie it together practically for for development purposes but we'd be happy to make that modification if the commission wishes commissioner um yeah my question is very similar um well not not completely but also to explain I know we spoke and because I had that as as something that I came to staff with a good explanation of what that Covenant means because from my understanding was if they are subdivided meaning that building wise that building one could be owned and managed by one entity building too could be owned and managed by another entity um so just to be clar you know not we're not saying that a parcel of that properties is being sold off but we're talking about buildings is that correct I believe it would I I I'm not sure I would direct that to the applicant I'm just not 100% sure on that what their future plans are okay uh continuing with administrative and project review requirements a licensed engineer shall shall app to any significant degradation telecommunication signal strength or quality at C Mark and make improvements if necessary condition nine any finding of Technical and financial capacity extends solely to Columbia Corporation the property sells or transfers the city commission may re-evaluate the technical and financial capacity the applicant shall demonstrate concurrency for all facilities at the site plan stage so no demonstration of concurrency is being certified tonight that would be at the site plan stage applicant shall work with staff during the site plan stage to demonstrate that there is adequate parking at each phase of the project that was brought up earlier as well these are both added conditions Hotel one shall be franchised as a W Marriott or another four diamond or above hotel for the AAA travel guide this had been brought up at the previous City commission meeting just to make sure that not only is the hotel established as but it's maintained as a high caliber Hotel uh just to give some examples of four diamond and the AAA travel guy the Ritz Carlton Sarasota and the Veno are both four Diamond just to just to give an idea of what the the quality level of that is Hotel 3 shall be franchised as a Hampton Inn or another three diamond or above hotel for the AAA travel guide and as far as examples that would be um developments like the Sheron residence in or Hyatt Place Brandon I have a quick question for you on that one the the that's a a condition of the approval would be that those hotels be franchised as such um is that a a a Perpetual condition and and if if if it I mean you know like once the project is built there's kind of like you can't exactly take it back right I mean like like like if like if it becomes a different a different kind of hotel or a low lower service hotel five years down the road we can't like you can't tell them they have to tear the buildings down right so like is is there any is there any and maybe this is a better question for for the City attorney is there any remedy on a condition being violated down the road the the City reviews its conditional use permits you know all of the conditions that are associated with it so if it's if there's a violation of uh of any of the conditions it will have to be addressed by um the owner applicant whoever is in charge so I would say that they can't let this backslide to a uh a different level of hotel if if this is in fact the condition that you adopt so they have to they have to maintain these conditions all of them and otherwise bring it back before the commission for a modification of just just as Brandon had explained if there's a subsequent different owner um that that H that particular issue has to be resolved before the commission to address uh that issue of the cup thank you and that was the inten is drafted that it be franchised it doesn't necessarily need to be a JW Marriott perpetually but of that caliber yes I've got a question mayor I've got a question as well um for condition nine if you don't mind going back so that's talking about if they were potentially to sell one property or all of the properties during construction during construction correct that's uh it's particular to completing the improvements their ability to complete the improvements okay and then could you also touch on I guess from a zoning or planning perspective of their potential ability to build three hotels building two additional hotels on one on one property just in terms of their ability to do so yes okay um it's it's not limited by necessarily number of buildings things the the density and intensity are the items that we or the criteria that we really look at in terms of a site buildout um there's permissions for example in the large resort District not being proposed tonight but um the ability to mix density if they wanted to do partial residential and partial lodging um you know in different buildings that would be permitted um it's not necessarily A limitation on the number of buildings but based on lock coverage floor area for the site setbacks height other features like that so thank you condition number 14 the applicant shall amend provide for review and record an enforceable Covenant requiring the entire development to be CL closed as soon as practice following a hurricane watch alert so this is a heighten standard that both the city promotes through its comprehensive plan and the county promotes that effectively guests that are um visiting uh the hotels are evacuated before residents so evacuation efforts can really be focused on residents um as the warning comes into play condition 15 the applicant shall comply with the beach ordinance as adopted and when amended 16 the applicant shall design and provide a discount program for residents 17 each Resort development shall have a dedicated spot for the freebie or sucessor circulator and ride share available within a certain distance to the front of the Hotel condition 18 the applicant shall dedicate an easement for a beach walk along this Coastal Construction Control line upon being issued a notice to proceed this walk is contingent upon future city commission and fdp approval we're only asking for the easement tonight it's to ensure that if this were to move forward at some point in the future the easements available it's not we're not requesting any kind of development approval for a beach walk or any kind of Boardwalk or anything like that tonight it's only the pedestrian ement and finally uh for 19 the applicant shall demonstrate compliance with all relevant operational and design related components of the community redevelopment District at an appropriate stage some of those come into play in the site plan review some of those come into play in the building permit review condition 20 under operational design requirements the applicant shall revise the poret and front facade of Hotel 3 to ensure consistency with the minimum design requirements again this had been drafted prior to the request for the renderings to be updated you do have a new set of renderings to review tonight so we welcome your feedback on that and F uh for 21 no more than one Monument sign is permitted per Hotel excuse me Brandon yes this is one parcel or is this multiple Parcels this is currently one one parcel okay and if you had a one parcel how many signs would you be allowed you're allowed up to two for the freestanding this would be again contingent on any kind of future subdivision um if that's something that's permitted for the development so we're allowing for more signs than what is permitted no no no it's they're not asking for any kind of a variance it's only if there were to be any kind of future subdivision um it would still limit them to one or two um Monument signs per so how many signs would they be allowed now currently they would be allowed the two based on the sign code okay but it says no more than one Monument sign per hotel and that's three hotels correct if if there were any kind of future subdivision where there would be potentially four Monument signs permitted it would be it would still limit them to three that that was the intent with that I understand MH so right now they're allowed to correct this is saying they can have three right they can have one Monument signed per Hotel there'll be three hotels that that wasn't necessary well the the intent was not to allow them an additional Monument sign the intent was just to ensure that in the future if there's any kind of subdivision or any future permission to have more than the two they would be still limited to one per per Hotel okay I I could resolve that or revise the language if that's not clear but that was in town maybe add if they were to subdivide so it's it's clear because that would still have to come back to commission correct if there's a subdivision and I know that there's discussion on new sign ordinances too so yes well whatever the new sign ordinances just like any other business they would have to comply within whatever the laot of time is thank you Brandon moving on to the resort development requirements comment uh condition number 22 all public benefits shall be provided prior to certificate of occy for hotel one except for the sidewalk and hotel 3 Frontage Landscaping in specific circumstances that may allow deferral to Hotel 3 or utility underground in completion the entire property must be compliant with the new development standards for beach front lighting part of the planning board recommendation and the uh comments that we received at the previous City commission meeting I want to make it clear that these beachfront lighting conditions are the higher of the new standards set by the city the county or the Florida Department of Environmental Protection that would be the entire Resort would need to be brought into compliant uh whether the development is remaining or not staff also added a requirement that Dune walkovers are required and the wet sand easement would be expanded from what was recommended to be 10 feet up to 15 feed Brandon could that be specific um the walkovers that that they're um I hate to say structural but but structural not just a pass through um I don't know if there is a confusion between what maybe we are Desiring versus what the applicant may be proposing Bron I'm sorry I've got a I've got a question on 22 on 22h regarding seed Turtles um how quickly does their existing lighting need to be changed I'm under the my understanding is that roughly half of it is is non-compliant currently I don't okay I'm just curious how quickly would that need to be changed it's it's written to require before certificate of occupancy of Hotel one if that's acceptable to the commission okay that would be for the entire Resort of course the two new developments would need to be compliant from the get-go but the existing serata and any exterior lighting would need to be by the end of the certificate of occupancy for hotel one okay thank you are they currently compliant sorry yeah I was about to say if they're currently not compliant the serata building I'm not talking about future building MH the future building shouldn't be um over what's current right the current needs to become compliant um season is coming in may they should be compliant now okay not not occupancy that could be year a year down the line okay absolutely if the commission wishes I can I can move up to date for that this had been under um Hotel one the city does have standards for existing lighting they're not nearly as Strang is the new lighting standards so if you wanted to move the new lighting standards up to a prior to Turtle season that that's something to definitely bring up with the applicant I would say yes because if they I don't know if you have the report of um how long prior they haven't been compliant I I've been on beach stewardship committee so I'm aware of many properties that are non-compliant and and um you know want them all compliant you know understood mhm mayor did you have a question question same question are they currently in compliance I'm not aware of any open code complaints regarding the property that's I you know doesn't really answer the question no and I'll disclose because I I met with staff so I did meet with Pete our quote enforcement so I know there's a current problem and and I know um Pete derer did mention to me that um the staff ramp up right before Turtle season um opens and they go out and they do take their surveys and then they put out citations and and so forth so it's coming obviously it's we're not in season right now but that's what I was told they're not compliant currently but based on the report that we have in here and in the last meeting that notice was sent to them in June or July of last year so they've been non-compliant for almost entire year now all throughout all of turtle season June and end of right because May it's May to I'm going to throw it out wrong is it November I forgot the whole season the end of October end of October so the half half the season correct um now and I will say that I did see documentation that the serata was addressing it there is Communications between um Mr dur and the Sarat so it's not that it's being ignored um but there has been there is current discussions right now with them to address this two thoughts if I could on that subject um I kind of read some of those Turtle studies too and if I remember right it was like 90% of the hotels are out of compliance maybe I misread that statistic so I just want to make sure I'm all in favor of tur lighting absolutely um but I just want to make sure we're not putting a condition on the uh current sarata that it's got to be done between now and may I don't know if that's just like unscrewing light bulbs and putting in different light bulbs or we talking about like major facade reworking I don't I don't know if we're saying that it's a condition I think what we're we're saying is if that the current building is non-compliant just like any other building in the city of St Pete Beach need to become compliant that occupancy doesn't give them permission to wait okay but you're not putting a you're not asking the shata to get that done before they do any other construction are you they need to get get it you're not making that a condition that's a request I don't I don't know I think it's a more of a clarification of what what you just read because it makes it sound like they can wait till occupancy to get you know the the property in compliance correct and and there would be the requirement for the existing standards which would be enforced this Turtle season and then potentially down the line the new standards but if you want to absolutely the commission wants to move up the deadline for the nuke and and that's where you would get the window film um you would get the full replacement of outdoor bulbs and so on so okay BR that down i' could comment on that as well i' I've got some questions that are probably better suited for the applicant regarding what uh remodeling plans are for the current Sara um as well so but just kind of in that category I would I don't know what their plans are um and in speaking as I mentioned speaking when I spoke with uh Lisa Reich she was the one who educated me I understand we all received emails as well um that they are working towards getting compant compliant but are not 100% compliant right now so that's it thank you uh condition 23 the applicant shall photographically document conditions on adjacent properties as requested and use vibration monitoring during construction the applicant shall demonstrate Southwest Florida Water Management District water star compliance a 35% Indoor Water use reduction below Baseline through the lead certification or equivalent St had concerns about the the drought unprecedented really drought that are um region is going through so we wanted to make sure that there were commitments to putable water use reduction and the project shall generally follow the phases shown on the phasing plan that was applied to staff condition 26 the applicant question but just to ask in in um number 24 um is it because of the concern of um water you know overall Citywide um pelis countywide I mean if you want to think of it that way too should that be better or can it be better is that a minimum standard um what what you know where did we get that number so the minimum standard for lead is 20% reduction that doesn't award any points toward the certification the applicants pursuing lead certified for the hotel one uh and Lead silver for hotel three so that's a minimum standard is a 20% reduction below the federal Baseline 35% is is right at the middle 50% is where you get the full points for lead certification that's 6 35 is I believe three um so it it could be improved um I'm not sure how the applicant landed on that number it was really just to codify a commitment made by the architect that we discussed last summer um if the commission would like that to be higher by all means you know if we can discuss it with the applicant and and and I would I don't know how to put it here but to talk with the applicant when they present um because we're increasing density right so to me that's impact way impactful right and and we have a um a concern you know Citywide countywide on on water so um I definitely would want to discuss that condition 26 applicant shall use auguring or another alternative to the pile driving and construction they have committed to that condition uh going back to the lead certification lead BD plus C Hospitality certified for hotel one and silver for hotel 3 is the minimum standard for development the applicant must show through a crosswalk that an equivalent environmental impact is provided if a new standard is chosen lead certification is certified at the start of the building I believe it starts at 60% build out and then it's certified at completion um but if it for whatever reason they decide to not use the lead certification we would be expecting a crosswalk to ensure that the standards are are met with whatever the new certification would be and Lead provide points not only for water but for energy conservation it's one of the standards that's promoted in the city's code for energy and Environmental Conservation and and I will have a question I guess to the applicant um because why not why not silver being higher correct correct if it's a whole site why not the whole site silver you know that you know and and again it's a plus toward the green standard that as a city that we're looking to have um I I would say the whole site should be silver condition 28 at least 50% of trees and ground covers shall be Florida friendly at least 50% of trees in required buffers shall be Florida native where Land Development code recommended trees so the Land Development code requires an overall green space standards for the lot and then it has specific buffer standards you have those in the front and along the sides of the property so the expectations that the required buffers would be Florida native and the all other Landscaping on the site be at least 50% Florida friendly um in terms of why the percentages were come up with um there is some ornamental Landscaping currently shown in the landscape plan we had initially received positive feedback towards some of that Landscaping it's not Florida friendly it's not invasive necessarily um but it's just not it doesn't meet meet that um University of Florida standard for Florida friendly we picked 50% to kind of give a balance but the commission feels it should be higher or lower we we're certainly open to that and Brandon that is something I know I spoke spoke with you and I also spoke with the applicant on this and and actually I guess their Landscaping engineer who who was on the call so I'm going to assume they're going to present present that later right okay so um because I do want to see that percentage higher uh div uh sorry condition 29 planner boxes shall be planted with Lush Florida friendly material equivalent to that shown in the renderings and maintained for the life of the project the applicant's proposing some planner boxes at the front of the JW Marriott um parking garage there's a requirement in the city's code that effectively when you look at a parking garage it not be evident from the street that it is a parking garage except if you're looking at the entrance for the exit um so with that Landscaping providing that um um some some of the screening that the code requires we want to make sure that over the life of development it's treated the same as any other buffer Landscaping it needs to be maintained by the applicant if it dies it needs to be replaced at at a lush standard condition 30 the applicant must install the southern buffer and public beach access regardless of whether Hotel 3 ever moves forward I think I mentioned before this isn't an actual phase plan where the applicants proposing to develop one hotel close out the permit and then move onto the next one to my understanding they would be working work on both at the same time if this request is approved but we want to make sure that if Hotel three never moves forward the public still gets that benefit of that increased beach access the applicant shall connect to the reclaim water system and have their connection metered the irrigation system shall use pressure regulation and have leak monitoring systems installed that had been a recommendation of the planning board the applicant shall provide the city and easement can I ask a quick question on that does that data include like rain check you know like if it's raining it's not correct that's that's a requirement in our code but we would look for that just okay the applicant shall provide the city in easement for the northern buffer in the case that the existing Brightwater beach estate's access is agreed to be expanded between the access holders and the city commission so there is a 4 foot beach access to the northern side of the site it's not on the serata property it's immediately adjacent to it the applicant has requested a reduction in the northern Landscaping buffer to 15 ft the typical requirement is 30 feet the commission is allowed to to authorize that reduction to 15 ft it's not a variance it's it's something you can authorize as part of the conditional use permit under the case that there's a superior alternative um the applicant is planning quite a dense buffer there it's higher than the requirement of the code generally however um staff would like to see that easement at the very least for that uh expanded access should that ever come to fruition again that would come back that would be another discussion whether or not that access is being expanded we would just like to ensure that the EAS is made available in case that's something the commission wishes to move forward with a question on that too in the in one of our um in our packet I don't know which page it is where they have a picture of easements that are being given that one is not the arrow isn't pointing in that direction so is there a reason why you know so the originally the applicant had proposed two easements um one on the southern end one through the center of the site and we had requested the additional easement on the Northern end um that came after so it's just not depicted on the plan but if if it's a requirement that would be a requirement for recording just like the others and it would be on the site plan okay and do you have a copy of any chance of the deed or um for that owner or who owns that I mean is there any discussion with the owner of of that walkway not that I'm familiar with at this time um this would just be an easement that we would be asking for from the from the serata property owner if this is approved and then that would that would be carried on after that and and this is for a clarification because if from what I've read um you know we want if there is a Redevelopment and there's a potential to widen a beach walk right that it would be seven feet let's say right if it's four they would give an easement for three so we'd have a 7 foot wide you know was the process done to clarify and and I know you'll be able to explain um later but if you know Brandon on whether how how how much do we go you know into to discover whether this is possible or not you know do we know is there you know like I said a deed a discussion like did they just say outright no did they really understand um what it could mean to to my understanding that the deed for that 4f foot existing access is held by the Brightwater Beach Estates subdivision that's that's as far as I know I I haven't gone any further into it there had been a recommendation that we asked for additional B check access were viable and so a request to potentially expand that access to the north of this property was one of the potential Superior alternatives to allow for the buffer to be reduced to that 15 ft it's not a requirement it's something the applicants asked for um and and we felt that that would be appropriate given the the general standards for beach access and the code of minimum 7 feet okay thank you I've got a question on that topic so I guess my question would be what are the next steps with that as as far as the Brightwater Beach Estates access I mean is is the city going to speak to them if they want to extend it have they already I'm just a little confused about that and then in one of the renderings I I saw it was pretty overgrown over that area and I would just want to make sure that should right water beach States decide they just want to leave it as is MH that you know we don't have Landscaping over growing into that understand maintenance requirements um city manager as far as I know we haven't started the discussion with that no we would do that at the direction of the commission as as far as discussing with Brightwater Beach States yes okay I mean I would think it's important you know um because we're going to be in construction and this is the first part of that site that would be constructed so it wouldn't make sense that that discussion hadn't taken place yet um you know you have Landscaping going on we're we're going to come to a decision on a buffer um I think that that immediate um you know property should know yes if uh if this moves forward this evening we would immediately start that discussion okay thank you and finally any new offsite utilities associated with any kind of upgrade on the behalf of the developer would need to be screened at at their own expense moving on to Transportation Improvement operations uh the applicant shall pay $100,000 per year for 5 years for Mobility Services facilities and or improvements this would be over and above any requirement for impact fees currently based on staff estimates the applicant would be responsible for just under a million dollars in multimodal Impact fees about a qu million dollar in sewer connection fees now of those multimodal impact fees half of those do go to the county so this would be an additional $100,000 per here for five years for could be used for freebie it could be used for any other successive or multimodal Improvement that the city wishes to pursue but this would be addition in addition to the impact fees BR Brandon never got a question on that um who came up with that amount and why that amount and why for 5 years so staff originally looked at the impact of the the serata relative to um number of freebie trips passenger um trips specifically and freebie is just under $5 per trip per person that's the cost averaged over a year based on Sarat I believe the estimate of the current demand to trips to and from serata um for 2023 we're in the range of about $35,000 for the year so for an expansion of this project it's about a 70% increase we would be looking at somewhere in the range of about $60,000 so that would help to offset that it doesn't need to be used for um freebie it could be used for other multim mobile improvements but that addition you know that would provide the 60,000 for their cost toward freebie and then 40,000 for additional improvements in the in the area What would would be an example of additional Improvement off hand I I don't know that we have anything scheduled um but you know any kind of just you know larger Citywide projects that may wish to be pursued um thank you let me Can I with that the five years though I mean does it go away after five years I mean we don't we might not know um we and I know we might not have freebie maybe we have something else or you know I don't I don't see why it ends when you just said the numbers right now the way that you said and and the impact of the use in just that one site you know then I don't quite understand why just five years um I don't know that doesn't make sense it doesn't end after five years those yeah no I mean these are when it comes to conditions these are all things that we can discuss maybe after brand and then the applicant have had their presentations so when we deliberate if we think that this is a project that should move forward then we can discuss conditions okay and so maybe we can just make a list of all the things that we we come up with and then you know we we can discuss those items thank you Brandon uh condition 35 the applicant shall bear the cost of Gulf bullevard short and Midterm safety improvements in front of the property that are not otherwise provided during development the city's currently undertaking a Golf Boulevard safety study it has short medium long-term goals um the short and medium goals would generally fall within either the buildout of this project or shortly into the future beyond that we would like the applicant to be responsible for the ones that are in front of their property condition 36 should the city proceed with an emergency level of service master plan the applicant shall bear a proportional cost of the study I've talked with our district fire chief generally these are in the range of about $80,000 at the most we asked for the applicant to provide for up to $30,000 of that study and that that's a condition in your uh resolution the applicant shall maintain transportation management plan strategies regardless of whether the lot is futur uh subdivided in the future again going back to the subdivision um discussion that we had earlier regardless of what were to occur the transportation management plan the circulator the other improvements that are being provided on the site would need to be provided for the entire development that Covenant would Embrace every Improvement on the property uh there shall be no deliveries from vehicles that exceed two axles before 7:30 a.m. or after 10 p.m. the applicant shall provide information to guest regarding safe Crossing of Gulf Boulevard and finally these are General conditions these are boiler plate any conditional use permit that the city brings forward you will have these conditions that any violation of these conditions permits the city commission to resend or modify the conditional use permit as it pertains to the request under which this condition is classified and finally the city Commission May review the conditional use permit development order periodically to determine if it is in compliance with terms and conditions of the approval so with that staff recommends approval of resolution 2023 21 I'd be happy to answer questions if you have them initially we do have our Public Works director and Fire Chief and Fire Marshall presentent if you have any questions for them as as experts I'll be here all night so if you have questions for me after the applicant I'd be happy to come back up Brandon I got a couple questions for you real quick if that's okay um I know in the um in some of the other conditions and in the Land Development code and the the conditions for the for approval it talks a lot about screening of of uh parking facilities from the street we do not in our Land Development code have anything that anything comparable that screens them from The View on the beach side is that correct no that's specific to the street level view um there are design requirements that apply to all facades of a building um particularly that there needs to be a ornamentation so it just can't be a blank facade there needs to be a minimum um offset of the building at certain distances but the the screening of the parking is specific to the the street level view okay thank you um and then the um the the the on a on a lot like that let you know the the parcel we're talking about and the the the side setbacks and that sort of thing those would be the same regardless of how many buildings they were building on that lot is that correct right so the way that the large resort work District works is that it's a 10% setback on the sides up until the lot becomes 300t wide and once it hits that width um it remains 30 feet if it gets to 500 ft wide 700 ft it's it's always 30 so that's 30 so so there's no requirement if they if they tore down every building building on the lot they could still build a building that's 30 ft from the north side if they wanted to or 30 ft from the South Side there's no there's no centering requirement that's correct just going back to what I mentioned early at the beginning of my presentation um the city commission under public interest is able to increase the side setback above 30 feet but again that's for the portions of the building above 50 fet um above base flood elevation but that the otherwise the side setb back is is 30 feet okay thank you thank you Brandon thank you okay um did anyone would like to hear from either Mike or chief we've got public works here and we've got fire chief I'm going to have questions but I don't know if to ask them now or or wait for the presentation so that way they could help clarify some things because whichever way like we can do it during the staff presentation or we can ask them afterwards probably at yeah after they may get answered before we get there excellent um I think commissioner Marriott you had a question about timing for the presentation moving forward yeah so I didn't know I mean if uh um if the applicant has um some idea of the amount of time that they require the number of people they have presenting or uh for the record Elise Batel Sterns Weaver Miller um thank you uh commissioner marot we have six presenters we know that you've all reviewed the materials so our intent is to go through really quickly but in these recent meetings there are some things that you've asked so we've supplemented some of that information um I I saw an email where where someone had requested or mentioned that the mayor might ask us to be like 20 minutes per person I don't think we're going to need that um and so um but I I would say that you know two hours would be the most if unless we have a million questions I think that part of the reason that we went so long is that our experts weren't allowed to finish and a lot of what the questions were about were things that a different expert might have talked about because for example there is one criteria where three different experts are going to have little pieces that they're going to fill in so if it's okay with this commission we love to give our presentation straight through and be able to get all that new information out to you and then address these questions and any other questions that you have I just that would be our suggestion to go as quickly as possible um because some of this we can kind of fly through like describing the site and we'll try to only focus on the stuff that you you've raised as issues questions and or highlights that we think are particularly important um again just for your consideration um I would ask if we um could understand how citizen testimony is going to be handled only because our rebuttal and how we deal with rebuttal will directly be affected by the amount of time that the citizens are going to be allowed to testify so I don't want to you know lock ourselves in for rebuttal and have no idea how many hours citizen testimony might be I want to make sure that from a due process perspective we have plenty of time to answer all of those questions M mayor that brings up a timely question I know we have this document in front of us that is a uh estimate of who's going to talk in what order and proposed for how long we also received 40 comment cards since then that's what I was going to ask so okay Mr City attorney would you care to address the question by the Reb I know you meant you talked about it last time but since we're all new here yeah I think you have to allow for I think if I understand what council is asking is that they're they're going to want to know among so on the list and I don't know if you have a copy of this list or not but there are um for example um cart condos are asking for 30 minutes um uh protect St Pete Beach is asking for 30 minutes and they have um experts and I assume that that that council's going to want to be able to specifically address any of those um if they have experts so I would just use it I think you're just going to have to judge things as they go along and just know that you do have to give counts counsel or the applicant um a fair opportunity to rebut anything that that they believe May uh need to be rebutted um from specifically probably from uh any experts that may testify here um among the public so I don't think you can in other words I think just as we go along you're just going to have to judge like are we are we going too slow are we going too fast um that kind of thing should we I'm assuming the majority of the rebuttal or potential for rebuttal might be with the experts or whoever else would it be helpful if we had one person then a rebuttal then the next person then a rebuttal or would you prefer to do all the rebuttal at the end after all 40 people or yes because there may be a lot of duplicate sure um and there also may be testimony that someone else adds on to and I think we could be most efficient for everybody's time if we could hear all the comments maybe even take 10 minutes to organize our rebuttal just so that you're not you're getting Transportation comments I I just that's the way I it typically goes best when we have these larger hearings with a lot of opposition but again that's just been my experience and and you know we'll defer to you Mr Mayor sure well we'll make sure we have plenty of intermissions thank you very much so to the point um uh regarding timing I think you know you may want to discuss again we don't have a um criteria to appoint to label someone or appoint someone or give somebody the status of intervenor party status or anything like that so um among you know what we have though are procedures for public speaking and so when organizations re you know request that so I don't know if you want to address not not addressing the three minutes that individual members of the public get but do you want to address the requests from the organizations that have requested time um you know I think uh I believe it's that the organizations usually get 10 minutes I think is that Madam clerk is that assment correct so typically under your resolution you you allow for 10 minutes to uh you know valid valid organizations I know that sometimes people will come up and say I'm with the ABC organization but I think these you know it's up to you and the and the four people that they would be representing need to identify themselves per our policy that's right okay so it it's it's in effect they're donating members of if they're representing an organization those members have to identify themselves so they don't you know they're donating their time so that the representative of the organization gets to have more time now with that it's still very difficult right because four people are donating their time but there could be 20 20 others that are still within the same let's say if it's an association um who speak up or want to speak up so it I don't know how easy the policy says four or you know four of the group identify minimum of four people to identify themselves so but to help you um should we have everyone State what you know uh neighborhood or Association that they may be so that way they do on the cards on okay so on the cards it says so you're just going to have to follow through okay the person who would be speaking would identify the people and the people would say yes I'm here and I give my time I'm saying the future ones like the someone else later comes up you know I'm in the Donar neighborhood um I got four people from my Association that say yeah I give my time to Betty but then I have Charlie who who didn't want to give who lives in the neighborhood but wants to speak too that that's why I'm saying it could it can go further sure you know I don't think the rule is to prevent everyone to say that they're in the association well no no I mean everyone gets an opportunity to speak but in order for an organization to have a spokesperson you know the four members of that organization have to give up their time that's it but the rest you know you can't you can't say more people have to give up their time right yeah I think maybe specifically I'm looking at the list and U I mean there's only two that are really requesting a lot of time there's a possible third one yeah Brightwater Beach Estates uh number five I got three minutes additional for group okay but specifically uh for example the the C Mar condo if we want to get into this level of granularity yet but um 30 minutes for one group appears to me to be a lot I think we can catch it in less time than that the key the key points are trying to get across so just want to throw that out there and then and then that it goes to what the point I was trying to make they could limit it you know I'm not trying to coach them but right they could limit four people but yet 20 other ones from cart could don't have to give up their time you know so um we'll still probably be hearing 30 minutes possibly so whether you give it to them now or not well they they'd have to following that line of Reason they'd have to be here so um I'm not sure no I'm not sure they would all actually be here so I was just going to clarify the point if I could I'm I'm sorry we're we're not we're we're not at the point where we're taking the audience comments thank you all right I guess what I'm asking is do we want to look at any of these groups and make a decision now or are we just going to kind of let this go mayor as you see fit I mean in the past we've allowed them the time 30 minutes um well if they have we've not had a situation where one person requested 30 minutes before we've had situation like number 12 were three experts and then for each one of them somebody they're each getting 10 minutes and then four people so 12 people in total would be donating time so we've had that before and then to commissioner R Nikki's point if we had 12 people who donated their time but there was 20 other people that identifi with that group or HOA whatever they didn't relinquish their time and we allowed them to speak as well so I think in the interest of fairness and consistency we should just stick to that process um I guess we could ask um Mr Ken Barnes if he really does need 30 minutes was that if if you wouldn't mind just stepping to the podium state your name and address for the record and this will be a 10-second exchange of course we would like 30 minutes we have a lot to cover but my understanding we have I think 10 or 12 people here and they would all relinquish their time we're not to your point that's why I was trying to say not going to have me speak for 30 and then you're going to have 10 other people get up and try to speak for three each for another 30 we were intending for it to be one presentation rather than a disjointed 10 different folks come up for 3 minutes a piece and you've been authorized by the board to speak on behalf of the association I have thank you sir please what' you say name please oh Ken Barnes okay mayor I've got a I've got a question for city clerk sh if you don't mind let's let's finish up with C Mark first um I mean if everyone in the C Mark is relinquishing their time otherwise he could just show up three times in four in four people I agree yeah I'm good that's good with that yeah commissioner my my question was has of any any of the 40 cars that were submitted were any of them from the C Mark they were just I don't see the cards they have them in their hands okay yeah and I guess my other question then is of those other 40 people are any of them requesting 30 minutes we don't know the individuals only get three minutes okay yeah so unless they represent a specific group or Association or something um yeah so we have we have two cases with a possible third one for Brightwater Beach Estates asking for additional time okay and then so just so I'm understanding so we're talking about giving the applicant roughly two hours to present and then from there going into public comment audience comment maybe giving priority to the people who requested longer time first just a suggestion sure um and then rebuttal at the end of all those comments from the app and then more questions and deliberation can we take a recess before we get into two hours um you asking for a recess now if they're about to get into their I second that motion okay so oh that's I'm I'm okay with that Commissioners if you're okay with that um unlike last time though we're going to have hard deadlines and hard stops on the recesses so if we say 5:45 in 13 minutes we 545 gavl goes down until then we are in recess would the applicant please come forward and begin their presentation uh excuse me mayor patrilla we just have a housekeep item that we want to address um the other Council will George Vincy will come up and address those items good evening everyone George Vinci Spectre G and Rosen Vinci um the one thing I wanted to raise is I sent a letter uh to Mr Dickman I copied everyone on the letter and made a formal request that the mayor uh recuse himself from these proceedings and I'd like to get a decision uh from the commission or and the mayor himself as whether he's willing to do that for the reasons outlined in my letter and I'm willing to go into more detail if you'd like City attorney so the general rule is that if you're here and you have you have an obligation to vote on matters that are before you unless you have a voting conflict and nothing that I saw in this um letter um from Council indicated to me that there was a voting conflict um he's essentially asking you to recuse yourself due to impartiality I do not have any voting conflicts and I will not be recusing myself just a point of I think the this the case law on this is pretty clear that there is a the record reflects a pervasive bias that that is a sufficient re reason to warrant recusal and I think we've outlined the mayor's prior affiliation with protect St Pete Beach the fact that he was a chairman of that organization that even after he became mayor he continued to be the chairman of that Organization for approximately a month that they are major opposition and the opponent of this project um that he attended a meeting at a condo meeting I believe for the C Mark where lo and behold the resolution's passed where they agreed to support and a petition against approving serata Beach to support safe paint safe uh protect saint beach pain I'm sorry protect St P Beach and even more interesting is that at that same proceeding a donation is received and made by the condominium associ do house to house protect St Pete Beach so I I think what's obvious at least for me and with the record seems to support is that you have a vigorous opponent of this who's already filed the lawsuit as everyone knows here seeking essentially to take the position that every other one of these Commissioners with the exception of the mayor is sitting illegally and shouldn't be sitting here today and resigning over this that same organization vigorously opposes this application today the mayor was the chairman of that organization he continued to be so after he was mayor he attends a meeting in which $500 is raised for that organization I couldn't think of a better example of where you have a situation where there is clearly a situ where there is pervasive bias potentially and under the case specifically the uh under the case law say the applicant's right to an impartial decision maker is violated if a reasonably prun a person in the applicant's position would fear that it could not obtain a fair and impartial hearing before the commission I think my client has a right to at least take based upon what I've discussed based upon what I sent you in his mind to believe and my my client's mind that they can't the mayor in this in this instance cannot be fair and impartial specifically among other things based upon his prior relationship with an organization as against this project who now from what I hear wants 30 minutes to present today that same organization and present expert testimony um so from my position I don't know how you can go from being the chairman and founder and organization that is against the project and then sit in judgment on that same project are you familiar with sunbiz.org I'm sorry are you familiar with sunbiz.org sunbiz.org no I am not sir the Florida Department of Business regulations where you register llc's nonprofits and so on okay right if you look up the organization that you referenced I was never part of the organization I was never chairman you were never chairman of St P Beach that is a different organization sir further I I could I remember seeing the document that we've attached through our papers certainly you document your position of from from a different organization so you're saying the organization protect St pach spee that you were the chairman of is not the same organization that filed the lawsuit that is correct no affiliation with that whatsoever right aren't the would you tell are the same people that were members of the organization still the same members of the so-called new organization couldn't tell you who the members are I have no affiliation with them you haven't spoken to any members I spoke with the chairman just like everybody else did here at the request of the group to meet with him and was he a member of the prior organization she was not and the only difference between the does the other organization still even to exist um I resigned from that organization I'm not sure what happened to it afterwards so you don't know what happened to that organization and the people that were members of that organization that is what I said you're not aware that the only all they did was fil as a nonprofit which they are now okay it's still a separate organization okay uh is there a position with respect to this propos this proposed uh development any different than the prior organization isn't it the same position they took then what position is that I didn't take any position so so so let's we've addressed the first concern different organization I was not the chairman next do you have any documentation that I made any presentation or Advocate on behalf of anybody with the c Mark condominium well I apparently you attended the meeting on November 28th am I correct at that meeting a resolution was passed said be it resolved that the board of directors of seark Inc is authorized to sign on its support of the protect sa beat organization petition against approving sarata and Trey Wood's conditional use permit as proposed that occur at that meeting I don't know well you were there I was not you did not attend the meeting then why does it make reference to you in the notes so if I may I attended the HOA meeting via Zoom at the invitation of several homeowners they asked questions I was very specific with what questions I could answer and I could not answer because of the conditional use application and the semi- judicial the Quasi judicial process after I was done answering questions I got off the zoom call what they did after the zoom call I couldn't tell you I wasn't part of it at no point was the organization discussed while I was on the call so if they had a conversation as part of regularly scheduled board meeting they may have taken other resolutions I couldn't tell you I was on the call for 10 15 minutes and then I got off and so with that sir I've addressed I addressed both of your concerns they are a separate group and if an HOA decides to make whatever decisions that they decide to make I have no influence of that I made no recommendation I made no presentation and so with that I have answered your questions and I will not recuse myself well how long did you participate in that meeting via Zoom 10 15 minutes okay and is you had there was a discussion that took place I suspect I couldn't tell you you didn't say a word no I can't tell you about what discussions they had after I got off the call no I'm more curious about what discussions you had when you were on the call they had did you discuss did you discuss this specific uh request with respect to serat beach was that discussed while you were on the call just like I've met with other associations yeah counselor I'm sorry but um let me ask one question of the mayor one question only do you feel you can be impartial unbiased and handle this meeting and and under your obligation as mayor absolutely okay you've made your record counselor um it's in the record um that's fine I don't think this needs to be um become a direct examination of the mayor at this point he's he's made his statement that he's can be fair and impartial the only thing I will raise then the only is with respect to the request by I believe two organizations and perhaps a third I think they indicated they wanted 30 minutes um apparently I'm looking at my understanding is resolution 2222 hyphen 13 sets a time limit of 10 minutes for organizations provided at least four members of the organization are present there's no from what I could tell anything in that resolution that allows for 30 minutes and I request that the organizations be limited in accordance with that resolution to 10 minutes if there are other people or other members of that organization or people that live in that condominium facility that want to speak for their 3 minutes they're free to do so but I think you need to abide by the resolution which sets a 10-minute limit uh neither protect St Pete Beach or the other organization that was mentioned are parties C Mark they're not parties to this action they're not interveners to this action um and we should follow the procedure as it's set forth and with a limit of 10 minutes okay thank you will the applicant please come forward and do their presentation this is this go word right that's top one the bottom here we go for the record Elise Batel with Sterns Weaver Miller 401 East Jackson Street Tampa Florida um we're here tonight on behalf of Columbia Sussex and CP St Pete LLC to address one of your questions um Columbia Sussex is the parent company of CP St Pete Beach St Pete LLC which is the applicant under this cup application there's a variety of documents in your record related to the financial and Technical capability I won't go over those again because they're part of the record you probably heard them in the last two hearings but we're happy to answer any additional questions that you may have on that matter um I want to take us back a little bit because I think it's important to some of the additional information that we're going to provide to you tonight this is a city level map and shows where the large resort district is the community redevelopment district is within the city a smaller District we're going to hear more from Cynthia spidel about that our project the sarata existing property is the area in blue within the community redevelopment district is an even smaller District the Golf Board Golf Boulevard Redevelopment district and that is divided into four specific districts which are really specific in your code the activity center buay you residential Boutique Hotel and condo area and of course the large resort which the serata is part of I want to take just a little more time to talk about what's being demolished in with respect to the full integration of the site that some of you have raised um as you can see here right now the serata resort is multiple buildings many Hotel developments that are on this size lots are many buildings obviously if you had one massive building it's hard to provide appropriate amenities restaurant space sometimes there is physical separation of those buildings the question becomes what is an integrated site so right now the serata resort is a fully integrated site with a number of buildings and this new resort will also be an integrated site it's going to have shared amenities a full ser and those are full service amenities so for example if there's an amenity that's at one hotel and not at another hotel the idea is this is a fully integrated functional site there is a condition uh that Brandon alluded to related to a Declaration of I think we call it a declaration of unified site plan we've done this before in the city of St Pete Beach for example Corey Landing when you have different uses and in Cory Landing actually they're physically not even connected to one another but it ties your project together for development purposes to say that this is one project under your zoning code and you have to function like that all the conditions apply to it and therefore that is what gives you the comfort that you're not going to go sell off off one piece and then not function as part of the integrated site now I will say often Corey Landing trademarks it doesn't matter um our little Berkeley Beach Clubs sometimes you take a site and for example I might have a different lender that's going to lend on that garage so I'd like that to be a different tax parcel and the reason you do that is not because you're separating it from the integrated site it's because you need to have a tax parcel or a legal description for a lender so that you can go out and get a separate loan cuz often let's say for example the JW Marriott might have a different lender than some of the other Hotel 3 or the parking garage so I just wanted to put that into the record and and more importantly I think from your perspective on how is this going to operate that's going to operate through a pedestrian system that Scott gilner is going to talk you through um we prepared a map for you just to show you how this is really fully integrated and that no matter where you are on the site we've have thoughtfully designed this to become integrated just a reminder all of these buildings in red are coming down um so the only only part of one building and all of these buildings are going to be left after the Redevelopment so quickly you know that we're adding a proposed Hotel one you know that we're adding a proposed Hotel to and a garage don't need to go over that but I do want to emphasize that we're talking about 264 hotel rooms in addition that's it um while and part of that is because we're taking down a lot of those hotel rooms so 264 new hotel rooms these show the site plan a little better I'm going to go through quickly in the interest of time this is the location of the new restaurant and pool of course this is what remains of the J I'm sorry of the sarata this is the area that will remain the JW Marriott or similar luxury hotel will be located on the Northern portion of the property adjacent to the C Mark and this little area in blue is the area where the rooftop pool amenity will be and it will be the tea will snuggle around it so that it's it's shielded from the adjacent property owners this area in blue is the smaller select service Hotel Hampton Inn um you can see here and and we'll talk a lot more about this we have designed the site for ample on-site queuing all of the parking will be relate will be on the first three levels of the Northern Hotel and the parking garage on the southern boundary of the property and finally there's a number of beach accesses we Brandon talk through them I'm not going to go through them again again but you'll see here that they're visually depicted the only thing we don't depict of course is the potential for that new beach access on the Northern boundary and again the condition says that if you if the city does get a Public's access easement over that private area to the north at 4 feet we will give you an easement and you know create that Beach Walk at that period of time the heights here um go from 34 .5 ft which is at the very front of Gulf Boulevard for the JW Mario yacht that's that little piece in the front up to 115.5 Ft and you can just see the varying Heights the idea is from an architectural perspective there's varying varying Heights for you know a more lovely architectural facade so three things are before you tonight and I think this is really important to remember the request is limited solely to allowing us more density up to 75 units per acre allowing us more height up to 116 ft and allowing that rooftop pool amenity that you saw on top of the fourth level of the JW marot those are the three requests that fall underneath this conditional use permit this evening so we talked about this in other hearings but I do want to emphasize it again that your current regulations today are what you have to measure this application by right you're a quasi judicial body and your your role here is to say let's look at this criteria and determine if the applicant has provided com competent substantial evidence that they've met that criteria that's it that's the whole world and the whole box of your decision tonight if you think about it the current language anguage is important here's what it says Hotel Redevelopment is encouraged by increasing permitted density and height for temporary lodging uses only exclusive residential uses are strongly discouraged by dis decreasing permitted densities and prohibiting any increases to allowable height for this type of use the the regulations today say please come here and build more density because this is how our comp plan was structured Andrew I know has told you in in Prior hearings when you talk about comp plans comp plans require studies and there's a whole process for changing a comp plan and while a lot of what we've heard over the past has been we would like to see something different in our comp comp plan we don't like what your current regulations permit we have there are processes for that so I just wanted to remind you so there's two standards and lists of criteria one is in 4. four um and those are more General and they apply to any conditional use permit Citywide and then there are more specific regulations in 4.12 that apply to any conditional use permit in the community redevelopment district and when you when those 4.12 criteria come up it's really important to to read the whole provision because what it talks about is not consider all these factors and we can't have any impacts on surrounding Properties or nearby uses that's not the standard the standard is whether there is a disproportionately negative impact or unreasonable negative impact on those surrounding uses so again 4.4 and again that language no unreasonable or disproportionately negative impacts are imposed new development is going to have impacts absolutely every new development has some kind of impact the question is is it does it meet the standard so this is sort of your road map for tonight I am going to start letting our experts provide you with expert testimony um and we look forward to providing as much information as we can tonight Cynthia uh good afternoon my name is Cynthia spidel and I'm with Stern Weaver Miller at 401 East Jackson Street in Tampa and I have been sworn I'm an aicp certified planner with over 18 years experience in both the public and the private sectors um and I just want to say that um staff put together a really thoughtful uh analysis with 41 conditions and that conditional use permit that's the beauty of it that you can actually condition so you don't approve it you don't get the conditions but I just want to make sure that I highlight that Brandon's done a a very very thorough job in um providing a lot of analysis and requiring this conditional use permit to be approved with standards that exceed just minimal code requirements so at any rate I know you have all read my planning report but um it it does provide an in-depth uh analysis of consistency with respect to the comprehensive plan and so but it also does a micro uh analysis too so the comp plan is sort of your big picture macro level are we meeting the intent of the desired policies and intents for the city but then your site plan review and the Land Development code kind of gets into the the nitty-gritty of um the conditionally used permit and the conditions so and that's what I kind of refer to as sort of the micro level of compatibility and consistency so so within the comprehensive planning framework um goals are General statements of desirable future conditions objectives are statements of measurable outcomes and furtherance of those goals and po of such goals policies are the statements of intent with enough Clarity to get to guide your decision-making so my compatibility and consistency determination relies heavily on the comp plan and it all starts with Goal one and goal one says that Gul Boulevard shall be a place that attracts people for living employment and Recreation the city shall encourage the revitalization of Gulf Boulevard through commercial and temporary lodging Redevelopment that will attract residents and visitors to the Gulf Boulevard core resort area as a recreation Resort and shopping destination so note it doesn't say that any use is precluded from each other but rather seeks to revitalize the area recognizing Resort as a key activity booster and with respect to character and consistency with the character of the area there's specifically this policy number two that's the um as I stated before sort of the um has provides enough enough Clarity to help you assist you with your decision- making so the character of each district shall be reinforced through the site plan review and approval process projects shall be consistent with and contribute positively to the vision of the character District in which they are located so this policy to is pretty clear it's unequivocal then when we talk about character the comp plan specifically desires the project to be reviewed with its defined character District large resort so I just kind of wanted to talk here a little bit about the character districts so Gulf Boulevard is sort of the defining line uh West Side temporary lodging East Side commercial and mixed use retail residential so by specifically identifying the location of of the character districts and by designating Gulf Boulevard as a dividing line the large resort is compatible in the area in your comp plan right your comp plan has to be consistent with itself so by designating these areas and the location of these areas um it is compatible by default there are limited opportunities for this type of Redevelopment in the area and so again it's unequivocal that this type of Redevelopment is intended by the comp plan there are four distinct character districts the large resort district is 85% of the land in the Gulf Boulevard Redevelopment District but as our other experts will focus later on in the presentation there are limited opportunities to redevelop which really makes this Redevelopment of critical importance compatibility so this is the view of the surrounding area and so I know I feel like there's a perception that there's sort of this big increase going on but you have to take into consideration that this site is 8.62 Acres so if you look to the north C Mark is 1.66 acres and you look to the South the Bell weather is 2 acres and you take sort of the total number of units and divide it by the um acerage we really are very similar to what's around us when you look at F that's the floor area ratio that's the intensity at which you're developing the the site so the C Mark is actually far more intense at 2.4 to 2.6 um and the bell weather is more similar to to what we're proposing the Bell weather and relative serata I would consider from a planning perspective as a like to like use um and with regard to C Mark residential um that 2.4 to 2.6 really really reflects its potential non-conforming status with respect to use and and lot size because it kind of may be encroaching on that cccl line so and I do want to talk a little bit about height because the only way you're going to get efficient utilization of your land is with height so when you go height up when you go up you can integrate those uses you can put the business center in below you can put the parking in below and that therefore you can get more land area that's open space so that's why our f is only around you know the 1.53 so and that pro pro provides opportunities for beach access pedestrian activity open space landscaping and all these other features that I from what I've been hearing you all really want to see so next going down to the conditional use criteria um this is sort of what I call the micro level this is when you go through the site plan and you check off all the boxes and you make sure that all the minimum requirements are met and uh these are specifically the planning related sections and I'll just go through them briefly because uh Brandon did a great job of going through all of them so but I just wanted to highlight a few things so your first standard for review is is the is the conditional use consistent with the goals and objectives of the comp plan and any adopted special area plan so that's rule number one you got to look at where it's located and it's located in a special designated area which is the community redevelopment district and then further the gulf Redevelopment district and what are the goals and policies for that redevelop Revitalize promote temporary lodging and no more residential on the west side of go Boulevard so the this is the first item uh in this uh 4.4 A1 whether the conditional use is consistent so whether so is it consistent compatible actually wait got to move on sorry next slide so the conditional use criteria are the specified standards that are required to be met if you want to go above this 50 ft and the 30 temporary lodging units in acre so again compatibility is repeated here and the specific standards to ensure compatibility are listed out so what are those standards it's buffering it's setbacks the higher you go the bigger your front setback has to be from Gulf Boulevard why because that helps you ensure that the impacts to the surrounding area are compensated that's how you ensure compatibility at the site plan level compatibility is not the same as you can't have the same thing everywhere but rather compatibility is what you do when you want to accommodate different land uses next to each other comp ability standards are those buffering and setbacks that have been adopted with a specific formula in mind and again so that you as a land use decisionmakers are deciding that in accordance with a consistent standard Your Land Development code lists these standards out and the conditional use process by conditioning the site gives you the ability to ensure that those standards are met consistently and this is important especially for planners because there cannot be any room for anyone to claim that those decisions are arbitrary and capricious and from a planning perspective just to reinforce that point this means and ensures that we planners treat all development consistently so the next one 44 a2a for purposes of this Criterion yeah when you're considering the existence of the other uses in the area based on the number size and location of those uses and the intensity and the scale of those proposed conditional use permit it's une unequivocally consistent and comparable with the surrounding area so the next conditionally used Criterion section 4.4 a2c this talks about this is where your Land Development code says how far your front yard setback should be and it depends on height so if you look at the site plan and you go from north to south you're going to see that the required setback varies with in accordance with the height and therefore you can verify that we me or exceed the standards that step forth in Your Land Development code based on height and that's the condition for the conditional use permit that's how you demonstrate that you've met that criteria landscape buffers so um you know Brandon talked about that with a 30 foot the ability to go down to 15 but there's certain criteria to uh that go along with that and uh we have a landscape and Engineers to to talk about that in more detail uh your rear yard setback this is extremely important because that is your rear yard setback the codes specifically says it's at CC line so and if you're off if you're up to it you're going to block the vistas and the views but if you set back from it you're going to help the views and Vistas and I I do want to mention that the views and Vistas are not just for any particular person that may live around the corner or you know it's basically also the people on the ground it's the public it's the people going to the beach and if you have more beach access wider sidewalks safer side sidewalks excuse me and more beach access and you pull your buildings away from that cccl line you're improving those views and Vistas and accessibility for everybody so um and the sidey yard setbacks yeah we like I said we're going to talk about that as well so later on so moving on thoughtful design so this is section 4.4 a and Elise kind of touched upon it's a little bit and it talks about whether you're having significant adverse impacts everybody knows there's no such thing as not having any impact but it really talks about significant adverse impacts so and the livability and usability of the nearby land so and we have 41 conditions that make sure that that comes to fruition and those 41 conditions have to do with lead certifications lighting um uh and safety issues Public Access deliveries limiting the deliveries those are the conditions so so but you don't get it unless you approve it because otherwise you know there's no point to that condition so anyways moving on to the next slide um the thoughtful design the amenities are internally located right Elise showed you where that rooftop amenity is and it's not even really on the top of the roof it's elevated right it's it's like portion up so but it's shielded by the rest of the building that's higher than it so that internalizes the activity internal to the site um and the structures are all been carefully located to ensure that that that activity is internalized the queuing on site and like I said the protection of the views and Vistas also means improved beach access so let's go on and again the conditions of approval in your staff report along with the site plan those are the mechanisms that support and ensure Implement imp implementation of the thoughtful design uh isolating noise fume smoke queuing traffic on S containing deliveries also there's also a condition that limits the timing of those deliveries and diverse hotel room offerings is extremely important so that you have um sort of social Equity amongst varying uh people who want to visit you know not everybody can necessarily afford the same type of hotel room but by having a fully integrated Resort experience you're sort of giving people different options to pick a a room and a type of vacation that works for for them parking 4.4 A4 um our engineer can talk about the uh loading and unloading of trucks but this is basically that part of the site plan where you just go through what you could requires what is being provided and um it looks here as though we are proposing 827 spaces which is well in excess of the 732 required and again that's why you want height right if you want to exceed your parking standards you got to have that height to vertically integrate the parking 4.4 A5 whether the generally the public health safety and Welfare will be preserved and any reasonable conditions necessary for such preservation have been made so again we have 41 conditions that's part of staff's recommendation to ensure that public benefits will come to fruition those are Public Access easements expansion of sidewalks along the entirety of the property's frontage Landscaping lighting Doom restoration storm water requirements lead certification um and all the uh Resort development requirements and that's the beauty of the conditional use permit is that you get to condition it so continuing on the thoughtful design hydrology features and St R management um that obviously will be expanded on by our engineer but condition number 22 condition number 22 requires compliance to be demonstrated prior to Hotel one site plan issuance uh for the entire property so and the condition also requires potential exceedence in to be piped into dot drainage infrastructure so again this is a mechanism to ensure that the project meets or exceeds uh minimum code requirements aesthetic and Architectural features of the development including sight layout so the site plan maximizes opportunities to intialize activities and provide setbacks and buffering that exceed code requirements and when you meet or exceed the code requirements for all these considerations that's how your site plan demonstrates that the neighboring uses are not significantly adversely impacted and by allowing vertical integration of uses it promotes more efficient utilization of land promotes open space buffering and maintenance of Vistas uh 4.12 A6 operational and functional requirements again between the site plan and all the conditions of approval the developer collaboratively work with staff to go above and beyond to ensure all these items are addressed and there are several conditions of approval that specifically address the operational and design requirements 4.12 A9 thoughtful design um again this is like what the things that you need to consider to go above that 50 feet so when your Land Development code creates that box for development with the cccl line being as a rear setback and all the other requirements for front and sidey yards that's how you measure compatibility at the site plan level and ensure that there are no adverse impacts operations uh 4.12 A6 uh there's one criteria that per deals with the operational set forth in the section of the code Mr Young and his team will comply with the operational requirements under the code of ordinances and I wanted to put on the record that Mr Young is committing that all the pool facilities will close no later than 11:00 p.m. throughout the site this project provides all required services and amenities provided staff noted that the business center is not specified in the FL plans but there will be one but um these days I don't know I don't know about you but my business center is in my hotel room these days but um Business Center is included in a large and common area unlike the days when we didn't have smartphones and laptops the business center is typically an area with a computer and printer and each Hotel will have one you must operate as a uh temporary lodging and that residency limits are set forth in the code so in fact sarata currently uses software that alerts staff if someone is approaching the number of days that are limited in the code and that's a safeguard against someone staying over the permitted time and with that it is my professional expert opinion number one as conditioned The Proposal is consistent with the applicable provisions of the comprehensive plan and Land Development code number two proposal is compatible with the surrounding area and that the proposal satisfy sections 4.4 A1 A2 412 A4 A9 and all any everything else if I haven't missed it on that slide and with that I'm happy to answer any questions or go to the next speaker yeah keep going thank you excuse me mayor before you get before you get started could you just address the conversations and chitchat in the room it's a little distracting people are presenting okay if you'll uh again please silence your phones be quiet if you need to have a conversations please take it outside thank you for your cooperation good evening Jim Stapleton with pivot Studio Cincinnati Ohio I'm the architect for the project um I'm start off with Section 4.12 A4 regarding the architecture um the design and the appearance of the building facades exterior materials and advertising and directional signage um so the basic design of the new buildings are kind of basically what I would call Florida International style modern clean simple white and color generally um with some color and and some gray accents the primary materials that we're using are exterior insulation finishing system essentially a synthetic suco building type and style that you see throughout Florida throughout St Pete Beach I mean all all all through resort areas around the country um for the project we're seeking uh well we're we're going for water savings the uh requirement for St P Beach for um a large resort like this is to have two different uh standards uh used on the property and that's generally because it was thought of for different types of uses so to meet that standard we worked with the staff and we're going to make the JW Marriott leads certified and we're going to make the Hampton in uh lead silver certified so can a different uh representation we're going to uh represent a 35% reduction of the Baseline for uh water conservation more than the 20% um related note that the fountain feature does not incorporate that but it will have recirculating and high wind cut off features to uh have more water savings um the shadow study which was mentioned um earlier shows that uh generally that the other buildings are not impacted except for the two hours on December 21st when the C Mark is um affected so very short uh period of time so I think we've done a good job of keeping the buildings apart to the extent that we can um these are different renderings so there have been this is probably the seventh and eighth versions of the garage um and there have been very many different uh opinions upon it from previous Commissioners current Commissioners um frankly I think the one on the uh lower or the one on the right side is probably the most appropriate one I think in the talks last week there was talk about creating some consistency across the site and the one on the right is one that kind of matches what the JW Marriott garage is so um something for you to consider tonight um parking so this was the last version the December 28th version that commissioner EXC commissioner fris lowski um was advocating for um this was another version U with u kind of a nice mosaic tile design which is similar to a Marriott that's down in Marco Island this is another one with uh kind of small metal panels it follows the breezes of the wind so you can kind of see the the wind Eddies flowing across the building so in my professional expert opinion I think as condition the architecture and the proposal is consistent with the applicable provisions of the comprehensive plan and Land Development code the pro proposals building design and architecture is compatible with surrounding area I.E the built development as we've heard already and I I believe it's my professional opinion that it satisfies section 4.1 12 A4 and 4.12 A9 and a list of some of the others thank you one more no more mayor if we have questions should be ask now or are we waiting till the end of the presentation wait till the end of okay understood uh good evening Commissioners my name is David Perry I'm a managing principal for with Perry Becker design I'm the landscape architect for the project um I'm sorry my name is David Perry managing principal of the Perry Becker design and I'm the landscape architect for the project I'll be going over uh sections 4.12 A5 Landscaping uh we have uh obviously designed the the overall landscape for the project to exceed uh the current code exceeds the shade tree requirements we meet the minimum 50% native and drought tolerant vegetation throughout the entire site we also meet the minimum 50% Florida friendly vegetation um requirements that are on site um and we've also uh address the the native Landscaping requirements that are uh doing forward um we are proposing a full Dune restoration um as part of the project um and as part of your uh code requirements uh we will provide irrigation that uses uh uh reclaimed water uh with controllers on it uh for both low flows and sensor leak detection um just to give you idea of some of the plant material will be used um almost all of our uh plant material is is uh Native Andor Florida friendly uh 50% of all of our trees are uh meet the native requirement uh 80% of all the balance of all the material on site is considered Florida friendly which exceeds your current code criteria once again these are just examples of sh material that would be used throughout the site um obviously there there's a much larger pallet for the entire project in my professional expert opinion the proposal for the Landscaping meets and exceeds the Land Development code requirements um and proposal satisfies 4 point section 4.12 A5 for all the landscaping for the project uh David before you leave uh least Batel for the record before you leave would you please address the issue of where the Florida drought resistant and Native vegetation would be concentrated versus where it would not for the commission sure Absolut absolutely so uh um we have uh concentrated um 100% of the Native material on the dun side on the beach side of the um of the hotel um as the as uh we get to the Ford side of the hotel as we get to the street Side Golf Boulevard side we've introduced other non-native materials um for color accent and and uh um just character in general um we've also introduced some in around the the building facades themselves so for example we have coconut palms um that don't necessarily meet a native plant criteria um but they have been used throughout the site throughout the overall design for overall design character for the site so all right um good evening my name is Becca Bond I am a licensed professional engineer in the State of Florida um I'm the transportation engineer for this project with kimley horn at 201 North Franklin in the city of Tampa so as the other members of the team have mentioned uh I know that you've all either attended or have been at the previous hearing so I'm also going to try to speed up my portion of the process but happy to answer questions when the time comes um on this slide here um I'm outlining the typical process for a TIA traffic study whatever you would like to call it um on the left hand side of the slide you'll see the major mileston dates for the sarata Tia including data collection dates and submittals to the city of St Pete Beach and while it varies slightly by project or jurisdiction the overall traffic study process is typically very similar um the flowchart shown on the right hand slide side of the slide outlines those typical steps to completing a traffic study and I'll touch on these relative to serata in more detail on the following slides first uh the first step of the traffic study process is to set up a methodology this is an iterative process with the city um where you summarize the proposed analysis approach and provide it to the city for feedback then it is incorporated into a final draft of that methodology that you then use to conduct the traffic study the final methodology for serata summarize the approach and procedures for our trip generation Our peak hour scenario and for the analysis distribution study area growth rate and vested traffic for our distribution um the the the distribution utilized in the analysis was based on the Florida standard Urban Transportation model structure mouthful that comes with another acronym you'll hear many in my presentation uh called the faimus model uh this is a computerized Transportation Planning model that's packaged developed maintained and distributed by by Florida Department of Transportation fdot there's another acronym it's used to predict routes the trips will take based on socioeconomic data in Origins and destinations of travel activity within a region as shown on the slide we made some slight modifications with feedback uh voiced from Commissioners just to show a little bit more of that traffic along local roadways as the model did not have any along those local Gulf Winds Drive and blind Pass Road this slide goes over the study area so the study area roadway segments and intersections that were included in the serata study are listed on this slide this study area was determined based on the forward panellus Mo traffic impact study methodology which is the standard for the city of St Pete Beach the study area was approved by the city during our methodology process so the basis of these traffic studies often starts with the existing traffic data so this analysis utilized two sources of existing traffic volumes the the first one being turning movement counts which is traffic data that is collected at study area intersections those counts are used for the intersection analysis only then um the directional roadway volumes are used for the roadway Capacity Analysis those volumes come from the Mo's annual level of service report this version that we used in the analysis was the latest which was the 2023 there has been a lot of talk in the past hearings about what date the counts were collected why do we pick those specific dates confusion about um the adjustments for the seasonal Factor so I wanted to distinguish first that those counts were only used for intersection analysis not the roadway Capacity Analysis that is standardized through the city's process and through the um no so just to clarify all traffic counts that are collected regardless of the date jurisdiction are seasonally adjusted to meet that peak season so ours were collected on um Thursday February 9th for the PM peak hour and then later we collected on August 5th for the Saturday peak hour based on an addition of another scenario requested by the city both of those were reflected to be that peak season using the fdot peak season conversion factor so as just another reiteration all counsel are collected regardless of date are adjusted to the peak season that is the industry standard next um after establishing the existing traffic volumes future background traffic is determined which is defined as non-project traffic on the Redway Network in the buildout year of the proposed project so to estimate the background traffic we adjusted those existing traffic volumes that have already been adjusted for the peak season we then applied an exponential growth rate of 2% each year to build from 2023 to 2025 in addition to that exponential growth rate we we added vested traffic from the approved Miramar and Corey Landings developments as requested by the city in that methodology process finally project traffic was added to that future background traffic to determine our future total so we've got three scenarios existing future background and future total so the results of our analysis as I mentioned we did roadway Capacity Analysis and we did intersection analysis uh our roadway Capacity Analysis was based on the service volume published in the pellis county 2023 annual level of service report as I mentioned earlier based on the analysis the roadway segments are anticipated to have sufficient capacity in both the PM and Saturday peak hours at buildout of the proposed development we also conducted intersection operational analysis using Synchro software which uses the highway capacity manual HCM 6 addition methodologies methodologies the results of the Synchro analysis indicated that all study inter sections are anticipated to operate with volume to capacity ratios also known as V overc ratios less than one for each lane approach and an overall um level of service that is acceptable based on the standards set by the city of St Pete Beach and therefore Ford pelis no I want to touch on a few items that make this traffic study conservative first being our trip generation so as you know there's an existing Hotel on the site um so we did collect data at the driveways today to come up with a uh you know the trips that are generated by what's on there if you look at the number of rooms and the trips generated today it actually generates fewer than what is suggested through the it trip generation manual per room so we still used for the future additional hotel rooms we use that it trip generation so we do anticipate that that is higher than what we're seeing out there today but we wanted a conservative analysis so we utilize the it trip generation for the growth rate we uh used historical fdot annual average daily traffic aadt data that showed a negative growth rate in the area this is likely due to the fact that um there has not been as much development happening on the city of St P beach in the last few years so for a conservative analysis we proposed a 2% growth rate that was agreed upon by the city and by fdot and then then we also used 2023 Mo data um which was newly published uh that lowered some of the thresholds for the adopted level of service um compared to previous years and to get a visual summary of everything that I've just talked about because I knew I threw a lot of acronyms numbers words out um we created these graphs to to visualize this Capacity Analysis for each of the roadways on the screen you'll see a bar graph with each of the study area roadways along the xaxis and traffic volume along the Y this first graft is based on the weekday peak hour traffic volumes the blue represents the future background traffic the orange represents project traffic volumes for the sarata beach Redevelopment and the green represents the remaining capacity along each study area roadway segment based on the 2023 Mo data as you can see each roadway segment has excess capacity remaining when the trips are included this next slide is specifically it's the same thing but showing the Saturday um peak hour and as you'll notice those these weekend Saturday peak hour volumes have slightly the orange part that's the project part has slightly increased because we expect a little bit greater trip generation on the Saturday um but there's still excess capacity remaining so like my other team members I'm going to go through um the conditional use criteria but I'm going to do what's specific to transp ation um starting with Section 4.4 A3 uh which states whether the transportation system is capable of adequately supporting the proposed use in addition to the existing uses in the area evaluation factors include Street capacity and level of service access to arterials Transit availability on street parking impacts if any site access requirements neighborhood impacts and pedestrian safety as I've detailed previously the traffic study reports acceptable capacity and no level of service deficiencies or intersection failures for either the weekday or weekend peak hour there are no negative impacts to the adjacent neighborhoods aside from General studied impacts to roadway capacity and level of service the project has direct access to an arterial roadway with improved site access in the addition addition of abundant on-site queuing to relieve any stacking along Gulf Boulevard Transit is available no onsite no no on Street excuse me parking is proposed for the development all parking is proposed on site upon completion of the Redevelopment and the project will provide increased pedestrian safety with a 10-ft sidewalk proposed along Gulf Boulevard and ample additional beach access for Section 4.2 A2 for site Transportation um transportation infrastructure including Ingress and egress from public rights of way traffic control devices and signalization internal vehicle circulation of the site design and function of P of parking areas loading and unloading areas pedestrian Transit infrastructure and amenities and public sidewalks and roadways with this project the access will be improved we will be providing abundant on-site queuing no signalization is necessary the parking exceeds code and the site provides internal circulation and cross connectivity between the buildings for vehicles and pedestrians we have dedicated loading areas which are properly screened and pedestrian access throughout the site and connecting to the new 10ft sidewalk along Gulf Boulevard to wrap this up there was a a traffic study peer review done by the city's consultant um where it was stated that they agreed with the procedures analysis and conclusions found in the study the report follows industry accepted procedures and the growth factors adjustment factors and the distribution model are in line with it and fdot accepted methodologies and they consider the report its analysis and conclusions to be adequate for the serata beach resort Redevelopment project we also reached out to fdot who said that they concur with the city's approach after reviewing the growth rate with the Ford pelis over the last 10 years and in review of the capacity of State Road 699 in the city of St Pete Beach as well as the potential Reserve capacity it holds until the volume approaches capacity so in my professional expert opinion the transportation system is capable of adequately supporting the proposed use in addition to the existing uses the proposed site Transportation infrastructure is sufficient to support the proposed use and the proposal satisfies sections 4.4 A3 and 4.12 A2 thank you thank you good evening Commissioners uh my name is Scott gilner I'm with kimley horon Associates I'm a registered professional engineer in the State of Florida uh my address is 2011 North Franklin Street Tampa Florida uh 33602 that one um so as uh thank you to Becca finishing up there and as Alise stated earlier I'm going to walk you through the engineering aspects the civil engineering aspects as we go through um and really what I'm going to show you kind of is existing site conditions and then proposed site conditions because I think that tells a story as we're trying to redevelop as we go okay so starting with storm water design requirements IR ments so when we design a a site we can't just look at one criteria we have to look at all of them so in this case we have city of St P Beach criteria we have fdot criteria we have Swift criteria so in this case we're looking at the most stringent of those as we work through so I'm going to Qui go quick but fdot becomes the driving force in here um you as you can see 2.77 is the allowable discharge we're actually below two um which is basically 10% of the city's criteria one of the reasons I'm sure you all are kind of learning about this but your city system as you work through it and I'm going to go through some pictures here is a lot of it needs Redevelopment for things like this where you're discharging uncontrolled to the right of way it's taxing the system and that's creating issues like this so when we go back and redevelop this is one great opportunity you get to do which is now you bring that self-contained you deal with your storm order on site and you reduce things like this and if you drive up and down GF Boulevard countless times you can see this um it's not to say that it's just the way they did it before but now the opportunity to redevelop gives you an opportunity to change this uh again um existing storm water proposed storm water so you'll see a lot of comparisons as we go through this city of St P Beach you know the the the discharge rates that were were allowed to go one by one as you walk down as you'll see and I'm going to flip to a slide here in a second we don't discharge until the very largest storm waterer events okay everything stays on site it goes into the storm waterer vaults that we have on site discharges or percolates into the ground never leaves the site only when we get to the very largest events does that happen and that that event where it's 1.99 CFS is during a 16-inch rainfall event so as we're looking through the conditions and what this looks like um you have blue up to the top which is basically the JW Marriott as you'll see it comes down and encompasses the port CER in front of the sarata and then you have the sarata itself the existing sarata that's going to remain and then the area in green to the South is where the other stormwater Vault exists um the green collects itself the blue will collect itself and go to the Vault there and then the orange actually has um underd drained systems that EX exist they'll be replaced when we re redevelop the pool and the restaurant in the back of the sarata but effectively everything is there um on site so again talking about conservative nature and what we do is we walk through this as you can see on the screen hydraulic conductivity is how you figure out or I should say horizontal and vertical are both used but when you design in a storm waterer modeling event that's actually the real numbers that we have 40 and 26.6 but because of Maintenance or lack of Maintenance trash that may get in the way we have a factor of safety so we actually cut those numbers in half so we'll actually be using 20 and 13.3 so again there's another level of conservative nature as we work through this process um again we talked about treatment everything percolates into the ground attenuation all the storms basically stay on site only in the very largest events do we get to where we discharge the do RightWay instead of that being through a little curb cut that's actually through a storm water pipe controlled discharge rate it's actually modeled dot would permit that through the dot drainage permit process um again just another illustration this is what the storm water Vault would look like but the large gray area everything stays on site nothing discharges only the sliver that you're seeing there in red is what discharges offsite and in a control manner to fdot right away uh as we go into storm water you know it's not just about storm water it's also about resiliency it's about erosion control and so if you look at this one of the things I honestly personally I think this is one of the biggest contributions of this project is Dune restoration you have a large swath of Dunes that basically and if you look up and down St Pete Beach there's a lot of these areas that have been either overrun or taken out over a period of time here's a great opportunity waterw of the 3cl line to actually come back in raise the dunes so we do actually raise them so we bring in so that's kind of what it looks like today or it looks to the left and you can go up and down St Pete Beach in front of many properties that's what you see but we actually raised the dunes so these are cross-section Cuts showing how we Elevate them and then we plant them they are barri we're on a Barrier Island that's actually your natural Barrier Island protection and this is reinstating that as we go through this process um I think someone mentioned Phil uh just as part of it and going back and forth we will be basically trying to mine the the sand that is where the vaults will be and basically use that out on on the um the Dune restoration the idea is you can't take stuff that's either dirty miscolored or doesn't have the same kind of gr granular characteristics as what's on the D or on the beach now so you have to match that up but we have gotten pretty good tests so far that we believe we'll at least be able to use a large portion of it and anything we can't we won't be putting out on the dunes so um so again trying to work through resiliency and and kind of re almost Reclamation where you're kind of reusing stuff as you go through the process uh just again again another Dune uh cross-section um again you know it's more than just rebuilding it I mean one when we take the storm water on our property we reduce how much storm water go goes to G Boulevard which means there's less storm water going there uncontrolled in a manner so there's a re resiliency component by us doing our part it actually helps the greater good of the city um the other thing it does is it talks about flood control hardened system so we talked about this before of the 64 46 keys that we're talking about we are keeping 226 but the other uh new hotel keys are elevated they're in brand new structures they're going to be lead structures they're built to Florida building code standards today they have better wind um resistance so all of these things basically work to be hardened systems that come up quicker don't take as much impact if there is a storm event so a lot of these have you know there's there's um Direct effect on recovery we've talked with um uh the fire department and Folks at the city that in in the event that there is a storm event they can't get all the vehicles off the property or off the island that we would actually basically have a place for them to park in the parking garages that would allow the city get to get up back and running in a in a quicker manner as well oh okay so jumping over to driveway alignments and what we're working through with fdot again this is just over the nature of what happens with development folks on the de uh develop on the east side at a different time you know as they work through it but as you come back in and you redevelop you get another shot at realigning things and getting to a point where we don't have as many conflict points so as we walk through this and I'm just going to again we kind of have a a before and an after after currently what you have is the southern driveway does work it aligns pretty well it's the other ones where basically you have people crossing over so when we were talking with fdot in two of our meetings it was can we align the driveways both the middle driveway and the northern driveway to better align with the driveways across and therefore reducing the conflict points and so that's more than happy to do so Mak sense from our perspective um but again just another kind of cause and effect of of the before and after as we work through it um and the these are again just existing pictures uh you know as we kind of go through for the driveways and and how they operate and function today um a lot of what you'll see with those driveways is and I know we've heard concerns about this is queuing there's queuing in the street it's on Gul Boulevard it backs up that's another thing I'll jump to here in a second which is we're putting large queuing areas in front of every one of the hotels that brings all of that internal so again the existing condition is significantly different than what we're proposing in the proposed condition uh going through pedestrian safety so um Becca hit a little bit on this so we've got pretty small kind of uninviting five foot sidewalk along GF Boulevard now and we have the 4 foot private beach access which technically I don't think people are supposed to be walking on but it does say beach access right there so I think folks are using it um and then we have the 10ft crosswalk to the South but but really that's that's the nature of what you have out there to get to the beach as we sit today so and this is some pictures of those those areas as we sit now what we're proposing to do obviously is a significant Improvement you have the main beach access through the center of the site which is 15 ft wide it also includes a new proposed crosswalk across Gulf Bowl L um we are also adding the 7ft beach ax on the southern side so now you have two full Beach accesses we also have the 10-ft sidewalk along G Boulevard we have the easan area where we're basically um allocating to the city of St Pete Beach for the boardwalk area we have the access easements that go out all the way to the waterline and then we have the easement that currently is shown on here at 10 I know in the conditions 15 we're more than fine with 15 but just again it's the illustration of how much more connectivity you're showing from a public beach beach access standpoint um again this is the the invitation you get so if I flip back real quick just kind of cause and effect so if I look down that 4ot sidewalk on the right hand picture and then I go to a 15ot sidewalk that walks through here it's a much different effect that you're getting get and access think about just two wagons Crossing each other if they're going going in and out it's a much easier uh process at this point especially with kids in hand uh pedestrian connectivity was something that was brought on and uh commissioner res Nikki this was part of our conversation I know we weren't showing it well right the buildings were kind of in the way but these are all of the sidewalks that interconnect this site that main area in sarata has breezeways going through it it's got patios kind of that open air Courtyard in the center but you as you can see there is significant connectivity sidewalks allowing guests to get from every part of this hotel to and from other parts of the hotel and again all these amenities are available to any guests as they go yeah I'm I'm I'm not aligned right now sorry with uh so parking and loading so I think we hit on this a lot but this is talking about the queuing the area in red we're identifying as queuing areas but we're not even touching that in terms of the amount of queue we actually need this is just providing more than adequate queuing as we go through the process as well as you have the parking garage to the north in the JW Marriott and you have the parking garage to the South with the Hampton in so both of those provide adequate parking everything is on site when we're finished I know there was a lot of discussion about phasing so we don't start with that way because we actually have off-site parking now operationally we need to be able to sequence construction as we go but when we end all of the offsite goes away and everything comes on site as we finish so we've been working with the city for months and as recently um we've made the commitment um and we've Incorporated a number of these features I think I've kind of hit on a lot of them obviously the sidewalks are significantly different the beach access is significantly different the full Dune restoration the resiliency of the property giving access to the city in times of uh storm events Etc but um obviously the storm water capacity is a big one in terms of how it impacts uh GF boulevar we've seen from the residents that they get upset and I understandably Gulf Boulevard becomes an issue you know in heavy rainfall events I'm assuming with high tides as well um but all of these things lend themselves to being part of uh the health and safety and how how this is is an improvement uh jumping over real quick just to utilities um you know the utility infrastructure and I think this was a discussion at the last one and and I hope uh Mr Clark is going to come up and just check on this but sewer Capac cacity is not an issue obviously with the Force main rehab and all the work that's been done over the last several years it's not an issue we were talking to different numbers um when you actually put the right numbers together it was a miscommunication um everything has adequate capacity there's also the ability to divert between lift station in the north and lift station of the South uh I see commissioner Len and do you have a so so the Commissioners I'm sorry the lift stations there's one to the north and one to the South we B basally are the dividing line so we split one way or the other depending on how much we send to the North or how much we send to the South it it it still works but the southern one has a little bit less capacity so we're more likely going to flip a little bit more to the North and then there's adequate capacity to both um electric gas and Telecom Services um are all available sewer has given us the availability uh water is through penis County we've talked uh a number of times to penel County about adequate Water Service um there's two parallel 16in water mains running you've got a tank to the north and a tank to the South um you have adequate capacity for this this site and many more developments going on um and schools and parks are not applicable to this this development um we hit on storm water um and basically all of you know really it's about the current conditions versus is proposed conditions the current conditions obviously don't meet code well the current code for sure and then obviously we're far exceeding the current code with our new proposed uh storm water system um open space and ISR um this is an important one again I think Cynthia hit on this well by us basically combining or compressing the footprint of a building and raising it from a parking perspective it allows you to have open space and ISR um and we don't have any of those issues we're fully in compliance with that again I think the F the full Dune restoration is an important part because again not only is it open space but it's it's restoring it to what it was before we were all here right and that's I think that's an important aspect as well uh jumping over to views so I'm going to mainly hit on probably the northern views um but I think it's important for where we place the buildings and how we go about this because the area blue is the 30 foot buffer right roughly in general and the green is the area that we've added effectively to move the building South and so as I go I think again I'm going to go through kind of the existing conditions are really critical to this as we go through so um section 4.12 a9b the proximity of any adjacent residential building to the Florida Coastal Construction Control line to the degree which this proposed temporary lodging use or any accessory use or structure maintains an open view of the Waterfront from neighboring prox uh properties proximity to CCL compared to neighboring Pro properties and you're going to see I'm going to show you proximity to the northern boundary and CCL because I think they work together to talk about the views so here's the existing saratas that sits today and keep in mind the picture on the bottom is what you look at if you're in the C Mark now I took it from the street I didn't go on C Mark property you know that's just the Google that's the Google view of it but you have an open air people are walking up and down all of those floors um they load through basically the center that's where the the Breezeway is to get to the elevators and you have all parking along basically the boundary which doesn't even meet what we're proposing so keep in mind what what we have today versus what we're proposing the one on the north is is actually what we could do that's the 30 foot setb from the property line and what we're doing on the south is double that and the one on the top is actually on the cccl line and you as you can see the one on the bottom is set back from that as well so what that means is you get that much more view between what we could do versus what we're proposing so when we're looking at this from a site plan perspective and trying to maintain views I think again we're addressing that and adequately providing maint and maintaining it from what we could do to what we're proposing to do again we did it on the Bell weather um here we were looking at um I I don't think Bell weather was too much of a concern obviously Hotel use to Hotel use but again we are showing some of their perspective and changes as you move closer to the cccl line because I think that's an important aspect the closer you move to the cccl line obviously that dramatically changes so for instance where we have the Hampton Inn the blue lines of the Hampton in now right whereas if we move them up to the 30 foot buffer and put the corner of the Hampton in on that that's how much different that would look and how much we'd block that [Applause] view um lighting and Noise We T we talked a little bit about this um I think we're going to we're going to hit on um sea turtle discussion the the as part of the Dune restoration we have to go for an FD 3cl permit the FD 3cl permit goes to FWC so there will be a sea turtle review of all of the proposed development as we do that I think one thing to note in the interim is when we first had a meeting with the city the city asked said that we had a non-compliance site from a c turtle perspective now I believe we've gone through two iterations of making changes um and the last one I think was kind of a line by line item that the city gave us I know that we have a report that's going to come up and tell us that we still have issues our last comment was we're more than happy to go and walk with whoever is going to provide the report and the city and the staff and adjust it accordingly we just don't know what they're viewing versus us we went through the list and then they're applying it now it's going to be much different when we go through the perum process with FD it's new buildings we're now going to go in and do a full sweep of it fdp is going to have a full review it so it's a little different but again in the interim we're more than happy to do that interim step and walk through it with everyone uh Emergency Management we hit on this as well we've got the lead certification we've got more resilient buildings um we've got new code new hurricane code Cod you're elevating everything so all of these things help to with the Emergency Management component and it's the last one so uh in my professional opinion as conditioned The Proposal is consistent with the applicable provisions of the comprehensive plan and Land Development code section 4.4 A2 4.4 A4 and 4.4 A5 section 4.12 A1 section 4.12 A2 section 4.12 A3 4.12 A4 4.12 A5 4.12 A6 4.12 A7 4.12 A8 and 4.12 A9 thank you oh can I hit one more thing yes please I'm sorry you were almost done with me you want to go back to a slide or no uh I think it's just a question that's going to come up so I'm hoping I'm hoping to answer as many as we kind of tackle as we go uh so beach access someone had asked what's it going to look like we this had come up with the fire marshall as we were kind of going through some things um this is down at passor Grill I'm sure everybody knows where this is uh I've walked over it many many of times with my children but that that is what I believe we're going to somewhat look like however from my understanding and Mr Clark may he may be able to answer this question but my understanding is Public Works is working on something like this for what those Beach accesses or crossovers will look like we're more than happy to have them in whatever form the city comes up with um I don't know that we have an issue one way or the other um more so we're just going to have to permit it through fdp it'll be part of our three CL permit but more than happy to do so but that's at least the one we envisioned for the middle one right the other ones are smaller more narrow really walking paths but if this is what we need in the middle totally understandable but I at least wanted to show you a picture because that's what we had discussed with thank you all right we're head of schle I'm the last person again for the record Elise vatel uh Stern weer Miller um I want to talk a little bit about views because it came up there's been questions um and Views are a very interesting thing and there are a lot of legal arguments and important legal principles that are important with respect to views the first one and I know we talked about this in Prior hearings is that your land use regulations must be viewed in totality so you can't snip out the word maintenance of views and Vistas without looking at the context of how those regulations are situated in your codes and your regulations and the timing of when those were adopted so I want to walk through that very quickly for you maybe it will help our discussion the second point is that the more specific land use regulations control over the more general ones you've heard that but that's really important here where you have specific Provisions relating to the view that apply to cups within the community redevelopment district and again those are preservations measured how do you do that how do you measure that your code tells you how that you measure that through setbacks and proximity to adjacent uses you heard both our expert planner and our civil engineer tell you exactly how we took that into consideration in the site plan and move those buildings specifically for the preservation of the views the other thing that is very important is that one provision in a land use regulation can't be interpreted to render the other Provisions meaningless and you kind of have to read them the law says in order to a avoid absurd results so it has been suggested uh at a prior meeting that if someone on the top of the C Mark if their view is going to be impacted in a way even if they still have the view of the beach that's not Main of views and Vistas well that is absolutely not what Florida law says it's not what your code and your comp plan says and it is not how you can interpret that here today um the standard is whether this proposed project imposes unreasonable or disproportionately negative impacts to those adjacent uses now there's something else that I think is really important so this timeline is important in in speaking about views because if you look at how your different regulations were adopted and established in 2005 we created the Land Development code and the cup criteria then you came in later and you created the gulf B Boulevard Redevelopment District in 2008 the Land Development code large resort districts came into effect and then there were some amendments after that but the point is and Florida law says that you knew what regulations were already in effect when you adopted those later regulations that's what Florida law says that means you knew there was something that said the M general maintenance of Vistas and this is what a conditional use yet then you adopted the large resort districts you put that box in place you established the setbacks you put in the language about those proximities and those setbacks so as we talk about views and you think about how to think about views it's really important that you keep these in context uh mayor patolo may we pass something out I'm going to put it on the overhead but I think it would be helpful if you had a little bit larger copy of of one of the maps that we're going to wait certainly thanks it's already in the record by the way this is just a larger version so what you have here is obviously it's this is turned so is to the left there uh there was a lot of communication a lot of Talk Amongst various people uh we've talked with the U Commissioners we've talked with Neighbors in the community meetings about the overdevelopment um and I think some of the opposition put documentation in talking about how we were going to come Clearwater in Marco Island um and so I wanted to really break that down for you now Brandon Barry's already testified about this at a prior hearing but I don't know that that he went into enough detail to really make it very understandable just because of the tight time constraints so this is here on your screen the large resort District let me go back oops whoops whoops well I'm going the wrong way sorry did I get there all right sorry see how quick I can click sorry about that have a very touchy um clicker here can you come while I [Laughter] talk so the math that you have before you and we'll put it up on the screen for everybody there are a very Lim limited number of properties that can actually redevelop and come before you under these regulations that we coming before you today and that is the density is up to 75 units per acre and the heights up to 116 first of all you have to have a property that is three acres in size in order to be eligible um so so let's just talk through this a little bit do you have a large one for me Suzanne so the gray areas that you see represent the sarata and trade WIS projects we know that those are in for development right now for cups the yellow properties each of those yellow properties with an X through them they are not eligible at those higher densities and Heights because they are not three acres in size and in reality a number of these properties are Condominiums with hundreds of owners in them so practically having them pulled together is it's definitely not going to happen in our lifetime so in reality there are three properties and I'll I'll talk about the purple one next but there are three properties that are really eligible for redevelopment after the trade WIS in Sada th that's the Dolphin Beach Resort all the way to the South it's the beach comr and it is the Hilton Garden in now when you think about what's the additional development that could go on there you have to consider what's already there right so it's really only going to be the Delta between what they have today and what they could develop underneath these regulations so if you take into consideration those three properties the only new potential Hotel units after the trade wins in sarata is 185 new units without the postcard in and 339 with the postcard in and I want to talk about postcard in because a while back several owners before I worked with the postcard in and looked at that property uh and it's been alluded to that in 2015 when the settlement agreement happened there are specific Provisions Brandon talked about earlier that say that if you are in if you are adjacent to a residential project that is outside of the large resort district and outside the community redevelopment District that's only really the postcard in right then there are all these additional standards and setbacks that you have to comply with and it really constrains the site so while technically under the code if you just look at it in a bubble they could redevelop we know from looking at it from an architectural and Engineering perspective that that is not possible now obviously I don't know how many units they could redevelop but it's far less than the 75 units per acre I can tell you that from working on the project so I just wanted to put that in perspective because the point is really we're never going to be St P we're never going to be clearw Beach here in St P Beach you're never going to be Marco Island you're never going to have this row of big hotel Redevelopment it is simply impossible unless you change your comprehensive plan to allow that to occur so again this is just on the screen now just a figure showing the three properties in the entire city that would be eligible and practically can redevelop under those regulations so we talk a lot about the criteria but I want to emphasize the community benefits that we have included via voluntarily uh including those or staff having asked us or or just including because the planning board or the commission and prior hearings ask us to go over and above and we have done that in a number of ways from a transportation and access perspective which plays very much into public health safety and Welfare we have enhanced on-site queuing we have the elimination of those conflict points for Access we have the addition of 10- foot sidewalks along Gulf Boulevard which will enhance The Pedestrian experience we have the addition of public beach accesses that exceed your code requirements as well as the addition of a public Boardwalk easement that goes up and down the beach if you ever if the city proceeds with that project sometime in the future we don't list on here the additional condition that says that we will join in that Northern beach access which we have committed to in a condition but it's not yet on our site plan we have that as well you've heard Scott talk about storm water and how there's going to be significant improvements to storm water as a result of the Redevelopment of this project and we've added the public access point running north to south 15 feet into the out of the wet sand right landward of the mean high water line meaning no matter how high The Tide is the public is always going to be able to go across that private property and not worry right you can put a chair there you can walk across you can enjoy the beach and now there's a legal right to do so the Dune restoration which helps with erosion control beautification of the beach Wildlife protection and habitat Scott talked about resiliency both on site and for the community he didn't touch on for the community but look at Fort Meyers right look at what happened which buildings after the hurricane were still standing all those new buildings because when you have a natural disaster in order to get your economy going and for a community to rebuild you've got to have buildings to come back to so that is the community benefit of having that resiliency for a long time in the future job creation there are 400 over 400 jobs at completion that will be directly related to the serata let's talk a little bit about the turtle and lighting so while we say we're non-compliant and you're right over 95% of the hotels aren't compliant today we legal non-conforming and what that means is that wasn't required when that building was built so I just for the Public's perception I want them to understand that that it isn't as if we're violating something today um we have worked with Pete dwire and replaced all of the lights but the film that we're talking about that is something that we voluntarily agreed to do and I don't know that there's any other development in the city of St Pete that's agreed to go back and retrofit an existing building as part of a new approval to protect the turtles but we're agreeing to do that we we're going to go in so not only are you going to have two brand new hotels that protect the turtles now the existing structures are going to be retrofitted to put that the film on and Scott you can tell me exactly what the name of it is but but uh but that's a great public benefit we've also agreed to condition that if the economy goes down the tubes and only the JW Marriott gets built we're going to build that southern beach access anyway as a public benefit so we've been trying to think about all of these things how do we contribute back to the community and this is another way um I want to address the $500,000 uh commissioner resi particularly for you because you had a question so we pay millions and millions the the developers will in Impact fees that has been determined under your ordinance to completely address our impacts that's how impact he's work I actually went in with the agreement of the client and we volunteered hey we understand transportation is an issue and people are worried about traffic we went in and said can we fund a preb for a couple of years how much does that cost and I worked with Jennifer McMahon we got estimates this was something that we came to the table with um and worked out about a two-year commitment at about $120,000 with the prior city manager and then your very new city manager came came and basically squeezed and squeezed and squeezed and we are now here at $500,000 over 5 years he wanted it all up front we were like listen we have to build the project we have to pay employees so I want you to know that there was a lot of back and forth to go into that um and and that is a a very large amount of money that has zero relation to the impacts that is just something that we agreed to do voluntarily so I wanted you to have that history we agreed to pay our proportionate share of the Gulf Boulevard safety study recommended improvements so this is something that fdot just said this is going to help these different areas well we're going to take that study and we will pay for those improvements out in front of our own property again these aren't related to our impacts these are a voluntarily thing V voluntary things that we're doing to give the community comfort and to each of you comfort that we're going above and beyond and considering the community and considering the public health safety and Welfare and Fin finally an additional proportionate share up to $30,000 for the Emergency Services study that you guys are either conducting or in the process of conducting I don't know where you are in the process but when and if that study moves forward we will pay that fundamentally all of the expert testimony from your planning staff and our planning staff says this meets all the criteria the applicants the expert in fact testimony has confirmed that the project meets all of 4.4 and 4.12 we believe and your planning board believed when they voted to recommend approval of this that we met our burden um so with that I want to just address a few of the comments that we had earlier and then I will leave it up to you if you want to ask I know there's you have many many questions and we are here and available and I hope that we got through that quickly for you and I hope that answered at least some of the questions that you had that we could save a little time um commissioner Marriott you asked about the conditions running with the land I think it was you uh about the Marriott or the fourstar so typically what happens is the cup will have this as a criteria and normally when you have a zoning and let's say you violate a condition you have to go through code enforcement but there is a condition added in that also says that if we violate the cup then we can bring it back to you and you can potentially revoke that cup so that that's something that we had in Cory Landing that we have in this process too so it's an extra layer of protection for you um and your own you do have another process in place which is your code enforcement right so if you go and you don't remedy that let's say years down the road something happens you don't remedy it there's a process and I I feel pretty comfortable that you're allowed to start finding the owner on a daily basis I haven't looked at that but that's typically how it happens in jurisdictions so I just wanted to address that for you I talked about the lighting um the lead certification we can talk more about that but I one of the reasons we had the two separate is because your code requires the two separate so I I just wanted to make that clear okay I think that's all I have but I'm going to allow it open it up for questions for our folks and we look forward to answering them shall we take a recess before we get to questions yes okay that's sinking we're going to have a recess and hard start at 740 my Clark would you mind getting the um city clerk thank you sir keep [Music] thank you next we will proceed with questions for the applicant and they're experts can go ahead and start sure should we um take one expert at a time um do it yeah oh you want to do it by expert I was going to do a general to the council first but um that would be the expert I guess yeah well she would not be well as a council for this question musical chairs if we do one at a time expert if Will please speak into the microphone so they can hear you got I was going to say I think if we do one expert a time that'll minimize the musical chairs perfect um who was the first expert that we had SP great miss spell you're up Cynthia spidel for the record [Applause] would would it be possible for you the slides that you spoke about to somehow I don't know if there's a way to set them so they play like 10 seconds apart or something yeah I don't know whether our motives thank you was there any particular slides you wanted to look at just I just would like to have them up there when everyone's speaking to refence got it because there was okay yeah I just wanted to look at that one because that was a rendering I had maybe I missed it in her book that I hadn't seen so the bottom the bottom rendering this is looking at the JW Marriott looking South is that correct well I think that there were yeah yes correct okay but I think there was a couple of different options so I would like the architect to speak about the renderings I just wanted to look at that rendering again because that's I don't know if anyone else has seen that one but that's the first I've seen from that angle so MH I don't have a specific question at this time I'll let Mr Rik you go first any questions for for the planner I I'm not sure if this is going to be directed to her but as a as a planner um and looking at that the car that it's a character district and this is you know as a city it's very important um that we meet that character District right so um are we going towards something there okay so and again I'm not sure if this is directed to you but and and looking about the compatibility within that District what are we looking at you know what how was it determined and um you know how did that that steps go about to getting to where we are um saying that it's compatible to this character District well the comp plan made that determination when the comp plan was adopted so the when the comp plan was adopted with these with the community redevelopment District it has its own section within the comprehensive plan and I think I want to go to this right here so within the community redevelopment that's how you set the stage for redevelopment is by designating an area as a specific Redevelopment area so within that community redevelopment District you have the Gul Boulevard Redevelopment district and that's where you have the four defined character districts so it's my planning opinion that when you created that character District as large resort and put it on the west side of Gulf Boulevard that was sort of the big picture macro compatibility determination that was made at that time so in your opinion what is a large resort District what what this what's the character of a large resort District a large resort I'm not sure you know it's basically I'm not sure what I'm talking about this property in specifically just because it's one property with three separate and I know we're saying together within that lot right hotels so but it's kind of like the opposite of what anybody would probably want me to to say right why isn't it one Resort you know why why three individual Resorts that makes it look now more like a boutique District or a a medium Resort District um it you know it's not designed as a large resort District so you're saying it's not big enough as as a whole I'm saying the lot itself well I I mean I I don't really I'm not really sure what you're asking but um if you look at the surrounding area and you look at the units per acre right we've got 63 dwelling units per acre to the north we have 78 temporary lodging unit acres per acre to the South and we're looking at 75 which is the maximum that you could potentially seek under the large resort District in your comp plan so that is the definition I think what commissioner RZ Nikki is saying and please correct me if I misunderstood what you're what you're asking is the Land Development code has very specific criteria for what a property in a large resort must have as far as amenities goes and what constitutes a large resort it talks about having a concierge laundry services a pool there's a laundry list of things that it requires only one of your buildings meets those criteria on correct I agree it's not really a plenty question is that where you were going much yeah and beyond that the Land Development code multiple times says demolish tear down rebuilt and you are only rebuilding one building two so you still have to go through the conditional use permit to address the Redevelopment of those two buildings okay but you're not rebuilding and demolishing all of them that was the intent in fact former commissioner Pletcher at the planning board specifically told you so that when the comprehensive plan was redone nobody envisioned renovating but rather tearing down demolishing and rebuilding but your compl plan defines Redevelopment and it's not just demolishing it's expanding reconstructing uh existing uses and size so it kind of covers the Gambit it does not exclusively limit a whole 8.6 Acre Site to be demolished and rebuilt at the same at once um I apologize did somebody just adjust the lights if you did please move them back it's too bright mayor if I may go ahead I think the correct me if I'm wrong but the question you're getting at is why not one large resort why not one large J JW I'd have to defer to the applicant um what we're looking at right now is the conditional use with respect to what's being proposed and the conditions to accommodate what's being proposed so you'd have to ask you know I'm not the the owner or the land or the developer but that's fine and we could asked that because that's why I thought it wouldn't have been appropriate for you thank you um and it's about clustering you know so you know we could have I'm trying to go through the process but I'll wait for them to come up so we don't have to jump up and down so don't worry at least we can just go on with Youk you any other planning questions or uh yes who is responsible for where the access road is for the north building the that's a transportation question no I'm I'm talking about s plan then that would be the engineer okay great it might be easier sure um so as you were going through your checklist on sections you you think that you've met the criteria um so going back to 44 standards for review part of that states that to the right so I'm reading from Land Development code uh where the application will have significant adverse impacts on livability usability of nearby land due to noise dust fume smoke glare lights late night operations odors vehicular traffic trucks and other deliveries and so on so where the current axis is for building on the North side the access to that building is on the south side of the building and you have moved the access to the north side of the building no you had it on the first picture all the way back where the planning where you started yeah there you go okay okay so where is today Hotel one the North building the entrance is on the south side of the building the entrance to the hotel the building on the north north and southide no no where it is today the current building today's building you mean the the one building the one that's there right now yeah it's north and south the main entrance to ptic CET is both sides you can go through the Breezeway parked on both sides okay fine so if the requirement is to minimize the adverse impacts on the neighbors right why not put that road on the south side because what you have right now is Right you've had got this long queuing line you've got a giant portic caset you've got lights you've got people arriving people leaving at all hours of the day and you've got a residential building a couple feet north of that so you have a resid or you have a hotel now that has the Breezeway so I was I think I was on the right picture go to the first one where you can see the picture on the bottom I referenced it in my presentation but when we show I'll show you ours so if if we zoom in on that so if you look at the top view you've got all your parking where you got some parking on the North some parking on the south you've got openings on both sides and this is what I was referring to in the picture on the bottom sure where you have a Breezeway that's open so every person that can come in and out of there is going along that walkway to and from their rooms as it sits today mhm there also half of them are loading in and out from the north going to the South so when we're flipping it we're putting the drive and the stacking on that side now when you go in the parking garage that was one of the discussions we had which is all of the parking garage is screen so there's no lights there and then you're only dealing with the balconies on that side sure but you're still moving the maximum impact on the north side of the building so where you're going to have the most noise the most light so again just glare from lights late night operations OD there's vehicular traffic trucks noise dust the traffic trucks aren't in that area the trucks are are actually front loaded off of Gulf sure they don't even go but people's cars are there okay I mean that's where your valet stand is right yeah they're there now too okay but again you're you're building a new building you have an opportunity to make it better for the Neighbors eliminate any objections they may have and so my question is why put the high impact area next to the residential side why not put the high impact area on the south side of the building or within the [Music] garage I think that's a question for me Jim Stapleton so the first thing is but that by putting it on the North side it allows you to have the larger 60 foot setback if we were doing what you would are suggesting we would need to flip the building over the tower would then be farther away but you would have the pool and it Resort pool area right up against the neighbors and you would have a 30 foot setback those are the that was the primary reason that was the very first thing that I did when I sketched it up one of the times when we met sorryi is that that's not the only option is is is what I would say right because when we spoke I think you might have been in the call one time I know if we met three different times just yeah once and I mentioned same same thing the mayor just spoke about um the impact the that we're still impacting more right the the North End of the property um we're putting the queuing on that side um yet there's opportunity to put the entrance of the hotel whether underneath the parking garage you know you could people can load and unload within the parking garage um you could still wrap and drive back around because I do know there is obviously parking right now currently today on that north end but it's just to park but it eliminates noise it eliminates stacking of cars fumes for Missions um and just people who are on the balcony from the sea Mark facing the potential new hotel um all the chaos going on not you know it might not be every day but one time is more more than enough I would say for someone to have to deal with it um because it's the future that we're trying to prevent right of of it happening um if you go to one of your you know your pictures of the current plan you know you could still have a 30 foot landscape buffer on the north end of that hotel um maybe have you know I'm not here to design for you but what I'm saying is that we could minimize the impact you know and and I know we kind of talked about this a little bit so I was hoping we would see something about that yeah okay sorry okay yeah mayor if I may comment on that just a visual that I think would help was the picture the rendering that um planning just had up that was looking at that building from looking correct while getting those exhibits at least Batel for the record while he's getting those exhibits I can ask I can answer your questions about Redevelopment if you want was it I'm sorry was it the mayor's question commissioner resi while he's getting those you I think we were talking about the character district and the and the you know ah how what discussions did we have with the community the the C Mark the Bell weather um and establishing you know what this whole look was right like how what kind of meetings were held I know the bellweather had to have had something I mean there's no way that there was no discussion to say please don't do this do that this will hurt us you know what were those discussions and and how were they dealt with um with the c Mark and with the bellweather and and even boa Sans or Bel gr like the immediate buildings all around it I can let uh Joe Young address specifically the conversations that he had but I want to go back because you asked me about Redevelopment on the site and how this is Redevelopment your code defines what Redevelopment is you have a definition in your code and I'm going to read it to you and I'm going to tell you exactly how how we comply with Redevelopment and why this is Redevelopment Redevelopment means the conversion relocation reconstruction structural alteration enlargement of any building and or use existing prior to the effective date so if you take for example the sarata building right there's massive structural alterations going on to that building we are chopping a big chunk of it and we're redeveloping that Northern portion of that building uh we are expanding the use right we are adding that hotel use and amenities throughout the entire site so we clearly fall within that definition of Redevelopment and when you're looking at how do you interpret a code if you have a definition clearly you have to look towards that definition so I just wanted to put that on the record and I think it might have been Elise and I think the question was something more towards what the mayor you were saying about the conversation in planning board with um I don't know if Melinda Pletcher was there about the having to demolish or I think that's what I heard heard as so so let me add one thing that might answer your question too so I think with respect to was the question why didn't we scrape it all that's a question sure sure um I mean from an economic viability standpoint obviously you want to maintain your income while all these other things are happening right I mean if I'm the property owner I can't speak for the youngs but to completely scrape your site and to start from scratch is probably not an economically viable way to do it particularly on a site that's this large um however that doesn't mean that they might not come back here and alter this conditional use permit and say hey we want to redo the serata now but all of these are economic considerations um with respect to scraping it and Redevelopment back to to that question I can tell you from a legal perspective the city we're working on another site right now and the definition of redevelop M that triggers your storm water requirements is I mean you're going to have to bring your code up to storm water for redevelopment for some really pretty insignificant what alterations um and we're dealing with that right now so clearly the city has taking the position that very little um really is Redevelopment FEMA has rules you know what is a structural alteration all of those things um you don't have to scrape a building in order to have Redevelopment but but from a business perspective and and you can nod Joe if I'm on the right track here with respect to you know you want to maintain some semblance of business while you're doing the rest of this construction and you don't want to put the employees out of work and you don't want to put the employees out of work maybe you preer that since we're talking with the developer just to have a point of clarification because I know I asked you this before um to explain the the structure right the the the parent company because I think I asked you who is D Dereck hot and Derek hot is no longer um the manager for cplc and and now it's Alan Smallwood so I and I don't know and that might be something that we have to address to make sure that the papers are Chang if needed because the applicant's name is different so it would be great to understand the whole structure sure happy to answer that thank you so very simply uh please state your name and oh Joe Young Edgewood Kentucky Columbia Sussex very simply this company was started by my dad who 83rd birthday was 2 days ago he still runs the company today he's been doing this for 51 years I've been doing it for 40 Derek is my brother-in-law he is since retired uh between my six brothers and sisters and my parents We Own 100% of every asset that you see um I don't know I mean companies are structured in in a way to finance assets that's the only reason that there's CP St um St Pete Beach so so while I'm up here let me answer your question regarding um the C Mark first meeting I had down here back in April met with Tim Yarnell and Mike Gordon had lunch with them talked about I said here's generally how we're going to build this give me your thoughts they took it they looked at it they said we'd like to see you do this we'd like to see you do that can you do this and would you mind being on our um uh monthly meeting or quarterly meeting so the uh Jim Stapleton and I were on that meeting had some somewhat crazy ideas from some of the um uh the residents one thought we were going to knock his building down um another it's probably the same guy uh was the guy who thought we we were going to create a wind tunnel um but you know some good ideas too and we put in a big buffer where the traffic turns by their request we took the north side of the parking lot we were able to completely screen that so any lights in that parking lot would be shielded from them um I can't think of of what but you know we took all all their comments I have my emails it's I think it's part of the record from before where they said could you do this I said here's how I'm doing it there was a question about piles about pile driving said don't worry won't do it so you know I'm a little surprised that they've reached out um to each one of you with the exception of the mayor to have you come up there because I thought we were getting along pretty well apparently we aren't um they've asked me for discounts um and I told them I come up with something but yeah pretty frustrated with the whole process and with them quite honestly sorry hold on hold on one second please we have a few other questions okay I've got a I've got a question um regarding I guess financing how much money is being set aside for each property how much do you have planned to spend on the JW how much do you have planned spend on Hotel 3 and big one of the bigger questions I have on that is what are the plans for the Redevelopment of the existing serata both inside and out and how much is allocated for that let me ask answer your first we bought this R for $200 million 206 put in $103 million in cash we have since given you a letter from Huntington Bank that says that they will finance this property and that we have uh Assets in excess of $200 million that should be plenty if you're looking for something more than that I could probably give it to you I don't know why I should be required to okay that's not what my question is my question is the more so the plans for each building um and quite frankly I'm curious how much per room generally speaking does a JW Marriott cost to build $350,000 per room yep okay and then what are the plans for the existing s as far as remodeling it well we've already submitted them I mean we were at the point where we could get a building permit on that and and you made a stop um I mean you have all those plans we're going to redo the pool we're going to put a new restaurant out at the beach my father and I walked all the rooms today we're going to remodel all the rooms to bring them up to a higher standard and it's going to stay as the name will be the S family focused Hotel do you ever see down the line at becoming a JW Marriott no no it it it doesn't have the facility to be able to do that rooms are too small it will never be part of the JW Marriott would would there be room in the area for the the Hampton to put a JW Marriott there was that ever considered no look we've been doing this for 50 years we know how to build hotels there there is a limited market for a luxury hotel for a family hotel and for a limited service Hotel that's what we have put here you're going to have to just trust us that we know what we're doing okay thank you you're welcome I got an easy one for you um Beach re nourishment I think we have one um organization that's holding up Beach Tre nourishment any issues with you of getting that done along as it comes down the coast when the Army Corp engineers yeah I'll defer to the civil engineering not not economically I just want to make sure clarification I think is you're you're talking about access no I'm sorry be free nourishment in other words Army Corb Engineers comes in with the big dredges they do like the whole Coastline 19 miles any issues with sarata saying yes or no on that meaning meaning every property owner that has a coastline has to say yes or no correct no it's fine thank you y great can you speak to I think even at the planning board in the last meeting there were several uh reports and emails that we received would you be able to speak to bankruptcies forfeitures foreclosures I mean this this speaks specific shman we we're talking about financial liability and so out I've showed you we spent $200 million I I have a letter from a bank that says $200 million more MH yeah I I don't go ahead ask me a specific question have we ever filed bankruptcy is that the question sure I have not okay any of your Properties or any of your llc's or entities have any of yours I'm not here that there the applicant sir yes uh Tropicana well-known disaster that we bought in 20 eight yes excuse me uh if you please in the audience just out of respect the gentleman is up here to speak I couldn't I don't know who's speaking I just hear somebody speaking just like with everybody else I'm going to ask them to be silent out of respect for you you have an objection with that nope okay thank you okay any other instances of forfeitures foreclosures anything else with other properties yes okay question just one question um I know TR you say the word trust you know and it's hard to use the word trust because none of us here nor the city I would say maybe individuals might know you I don't know you so that's a hard word to use okay so what we're trying to get here is a good understanding of what you can do or accomplish for our city right um so in my question is have you ever had or created and and I know I've asked this with a leise a hotel similar to this that on one site you have three different properties or hotels I I think they mentioned one that was a condominium um but is this the first Venture of this kind I you know I don't really consider it anything out of the ordinary for what we do all the time I mean I I came up yesterday from St Martin where we're finishing a JW Marriott which will open in two weeks we have aund room residential time share development right next to that we have hotels in Anchorage Alaska we have a cluster of three of them that are out there we have five hotels in Anchorage we have these are three hotels of which we've been doing that for 50 years so I I I I don't understand why it seems like this is a different um a different scenar excuse me a different scenario when we hear a comment like maybe if Hotel 3 wasn't built right that we will still get the beach access on the south end then what I'm hearing is there's a potential of having an empty lot there right that the project couldn't complete so that's why those comments kind of worry me that's why we asked this you know and that maybe helpful we can clarify so that condition came from your staff it came from Brandon and from Wayne and the I they said if something were to happen in the future and you got your Co on the JW Marriott but then you didn't complete that can you can you please commit that you'll go ahead and give us that put public beach access nobody's expecting not to finish this development in fact Joe has has very many times said that this this isn't even a phase development he's going into to build these two hotels that came directly from your staff so we of course said yes if something if there's a pandemic and there's a pause and that's where this came from if there is a pandemic or something like a pandemic where the world shuts down and people aren't going to hotels which and the JW get Marriott gets built what H how can you guarantee we still want that southern beach access even if you don't go and build that other Hotel hotel and we said yes that's the only reason that that condition is in there and that's the only reason this came up at all so just wanted to give you some background thank you and I just I've been working with this man for so long and he let me just give you a little context to his FR frustration because I think it's going to be helpful for all the new Commissioners well I understand that's what I was going to say I understand the frustration this is you know this you've been in this room before regarding this conditional use permit I haven't a lot of these other Commissioners haven't so that's why we have these questions I understand good okay any further questions for Mr Young I've got another one what's the most recent uh project you've done in Florida in Florida uh let's see well I I mean we've owned Marriott and Hutchinson Island we've sold that we own the Marriott Orlando airport we own the Marriott um uh Tampa Airport West Shore we own the Clearwater Hilton we own the Marriott in Santa Bel Beach what's the most recent one you've built if if any of those or were those it's been a long time since we built in Florida but I can tell you just got back from St Martin which is a lot harder place to build and I'm opening a 200 room JW marot there in 9 days from today so it if the question is do we have an ability to build down here uh the answer is if you can build in the Caribbean Florida's easy so I I just know from being in real estate our insurance Market is different with with items so that's why that's where the question is steming from so I buy about $200 million in Wind Insurance a year uh hurricane IR St Martin had $175 million claim my insurance went up for our portfolio properties it doubled last year from a big number to a huge number totally familiar with what we're getting into With the Wind risk down here we have a lot of wind risk in Florida and we've determined that it's worth it yeah because I know Builder risk policies have yep tripled in the past or more in the past few years very dangerous when you're building a building and a storm comes through sure okay yep thank you yep mayor may I ask a quick question uh at least um could you I think that he indicated that Mr hot retired right and so now is Mr Smallwood the manager I just want clarification because I'm looking at the application and it's listing Derek hot as manager but I've got your affidavit here that says small it is because of course the the retirement happened in between so at the time we signed the legal document okay that was the current manager and now there's another manager because of a retirement okay and yeah you have all of those backup documents we've submitted them all into the record just want to be clear about that yeah thanks I I'm just here to direct the questions because I think I know which experts probably need to answer them questions are we ready to talk about the I think you're looking for the architectural or not yet yeah okay okay he says no he's trying to find the right exhibits to show you I've got some questions if I can so the vibration monitoring could you explain that a little bit more what that is I can do both actually so I'll those um so vibration monitoring so what they do is they set up a number so I think this came from the C Mark right and they had they had concerns so what we typically do we did this at the JW Marriott downtown Tampa we have the Embassy Suites right there we had the uh street car right there so we had concerns about street car and Embassy Suites so in this case what we do is we set up a portable monitoring station that sits throughout construction and there'll be at least two on the property Corners probably one or two in the middle because the property line is pretty long and so they effectively sit there and they're set to a vibration level that they know won't structurally impact a building especially a building that's 60 some odd feet beyond that and so what they do is then they're on text message with a recording data that anytime there's a ation monitor of any case it logs it if it hits that threshold which the threshold is already set below like a a structural event which would be an issue it tags the superintendent project manager and then they shut down the equipment so it gives them room to react to it but it effectively does it and then it logs it throughout all of construction that y thank you have your while he's setting that up just to dovetail on that point commissioner filtz um the the structure the vibration monitoring and the visual structural monitoring not only is it good for the adjoining properties but it also gives us a baseline in case something happens um we know you know because of all the issues that happen in South Florida it's protection for both parties can can I add one thing for you just because you might want to combine it because I don't don't want to have to you come back for it because I think you might have been on the call when I asked about this and the curb Cuts cuz I have a big concern you know when you look at our comp plan there's a lot that we're you know that we're looking at right and improving the city overall right we're looking for projects that are going to reduce curb Cuts right that that's specific um that we talk I know there's three existing curb Cuts so that it's not a question that it doesn't exist but anybody who's lived here in this Community for a long time knows only one curb cut was actually used all the time right one main entrance one gate you have call them auxiliary curb cuts that you may use randomly to let someone in and out right now this particular one in order to align with across the street with Bel Gran means it needs to be moved further north correct so the next curve cut at C Mark and I can't I don't see the little what the math here is but if it's 15 20 feet away from the next curb cut and then seark has two curb cuts and then trade ones has the next one coming so you're talking about pretty close to each other four curb cuts on that sidewalk um and I and I just want it closed I don't you know that we're trying to make a safe environment right and to hit that one and this is coming from a resident who's seen a lot of accidents a lot of pedestrians um you know whether and I don't want to say all pedestrians hit but for many reasons I know widening this is making it nice but when you have um people coming in and out you know you think you you made it across okay then you got another in and out then you got another one again you know I think there could be a lot of improvement with that in conjunction with that North End to reduce again the impact to the northern property yeah and and when we were on the phone commissioner R Nikki we were talking about that one and I think you'd ask for one one is probably unreasonable based on the size and scale but the other part I was talking about from an engineering perspective is you do want redundancy when you're dealing with driveways you at least want two and most likely three and in this case our Southern driveway is really feeding the two southern hotels the existing sarata and the new uh Hampton in and then the middle one is really service and outbound movements for the majority and then the northern one is really the JW Marriott and service coming in for the truck service so I understand what you're saying it's approximately about 100 fet from our curb cut to C Mark uh based on because that driveways 364 40 ft wide so you've got at least another uh probably 100 ft to there um but I understand but as our discussions we're going with f do um it also starts to go into how does it work queuing wise onsite getting offsite it also talks about more traffic going to two driveways rather than three like we talked about queuing on Gul Boulevard so in all of these designs as we talk about it we're trying to balance the concerns that we hear so C Mark had concerns you know that Jim did a great job of basically blocking the views when it came to the garage and flipping the building so the te is facing south so the pool is not to that area but in doing so we could have slid North but then the building talk now we're talking about views and rather so it's you know you're working back and forth and so that's what we're trying to work through same thing here we have three driveways um yes the that that Northern one again I think C mark it is there totally understand but I don't think they're compliant with two driveways they certainly wouldn't be allowed that based on the access management standards as it sits today um but the spacing otherwise does work along our property boundary and the amount of linear footage we have around the b along our property line now and again I'm not I'm not here to talk about a non-conforming building because because obviously I don't think the C Mark is planning on knocking down the building and making it compliant or or maybe they are if they ever thought about being compliant with that then maybe they would but it's to minimize the impact and and that's what I'm trying to get across you know there is a way to have continuous queuing on site reduce the curb cut not impact that Northern property um I from and I can't see it in this plan but I know that you're coming in or the cars or the vehicles can come inside there's a lot of and I'm sure there's JW marot out there and I've been to many hotels where you can enter the hotel interiorly right from underneath or if you put it on the front again I'm not telling you where to put it you and you all can figure this out but that we could continue to minimize the impact of of the seamwork I I I know it sounds that easy but it usually doesn't so if that driveway were to slide kind of as it shown most likely that driveway wouldn't be there it would probably kind of be into the Eastern face of the building and we would slide to building North right and then we'd have be back into that view issue and so again we kind of go back and forth with that but it you know by by splitting up the trips and assigning them to different driveways that helps with what you're dealing with with Q both in and out and GF Boulevard and the stacking on Gul Boulevard because the gates and those other items were certainly things and I think you mentioned bellweather when there was an event there where they had stacked up and again it's one entrance right and if we're only using one entrance here now that's why you're seeing those issues when you start to give people options the redundancy helps with breaking apart kind of those log jams as you go yeah and and even you mentioned Bell weather is that you are correct um I don't know if it was the weekend or Thursday when there's an event Bell weather Stacks further than that southern driveway so if you have people coming south on Gulf Boulevard whether it is JW or sarata or to the Hampton or to the Bell weather or trying to get home in the sea Mark you can you can end up having a line you know you all are not coordinating when you're having events um you know there's still a potential of of you know I'm trying to make a right but I got to come from going north on go boulevar make a left did I miss the sign how am I going to U-turn I mean all of that could still happen understood can you go to the um the slide that had the uh turning Lanes Visa V the boka Grand and boka Sans we can stick on this slide as well if you want because I got questions about that as well I wanted to see that one again as well all right next slide please the one with the blue lines so this omits two things in in my from what I'm seeing here is um there is no North going south turning left into belrand or boka Sands or the third the beach Mart and there is no left turn going north on Golf Boulevard into the project on any of those things so are you saying that people don't come from down south head north on Golf Boulevard and then make a left into the property no we're not saying that at all okay but you'd have to go back here as well sure because you're going to have the exact same movements and you still have the conflict points that we're referring to and you have more of them so there so it's not about every movement it's about the main conflicting movements and the discussions with fdot and so you have all of those movements you just mentioned but you have them in the existing condition or you have them in the proposed condition so the question is whether or not you align them so someone looking across from you can watch someone make a left and make a left they still got to watch the folks to the left and right why not eliminate left turns into an out of the property I we don't have to with fdot so we've certainly discussed it but it hasn't been a discussion Point sure but comprehensive plan and Land Development code says part of your requirement is to you know maintain safety standards and improve them and we just did I know but have you have an opportunity to make it better yeah I mean you start to study other things as you go through that so um I mean if you flip between these all these movements you just described we have and then we made it better questions one sorry go ahead mine are more design architecture questions all right want me to flip back did you have a question on this or not on traffic on storm water I would like to see that again storm water should be a to knock out pretty quick I think okay hopefully okay all right if you have before you go into storm water if there's an architectural did you bring an architectural rendering of the whole Resort front and back like to see what it looks like all together I mean we've got 16 or 18 render actually we got like 25 renderings but I don't have any renderings on the SRA I yeah take it takes quite a while right um because again it's like to get that you know architecturally how it all looks together because I know we're looking at looking at the the garage and what the garage is going to look like but if you could see it together you know then you know and Architectural standards are part of the review process so by not providing them now how are we supposed to make a decision on this staff reviewed it you guys have reviewed it commissioner frosi reviewed it she has not reviewed it she's seen all the renderings okay I haven't seen the Sara there are no renderings at the S because I know we're not reviewing it but part of this is the whole plan right so we're not we're adding a port cair in front of the SRA the drawings have been submitted to the city but you're tearing down half the building what's it going to look like before and after front and back on the sides we're taking down the north wall of the rooms now you take it down right we can take it down yeah okay okay I think you're asking too much to see what it was going to look like it's too much there's already 27 renderings you've seen 27 renderings I've been working for four I I've been working for a long time you don't have that many renderings for any project I think you're asking for too much well let me explain to from a timing perspective we just spoke like a week ago it takes him weeks and weeks to R to provide renderings it's not just let me just flip on Cad and do renderings um again you're hearing a little bit of the frustration and I understand that these you're all new Commissioners um but again the standard isn't is not do you like the Aesthetics that that's not the standard before you today and do you and it's also not do you like the architectural details it's in an overall is it your opinion you know well not even do we meet the criteria that it unreasonably or disproportionately impacts those surrounding properties and so I I understand you want every everything now um and we want to get you what we can get but we also I mean to render these things that you ask for like the whole it it takes weeks and weeks and weeks and and honestly a lot of time and expense to do that um and we have we've been through seven eight versions of renderings and trying to render and so that that's the frustration that you're hearing yeah but some of the requirements are very specific right x amount of feet it can't look like this it can't be this we went through that and staff and they approved it requirements those requirements mayor Pat are all in your Land Development code we have to comply with those so so remember again this is the cup permit when we go through site plan approval there are dozens of requirements that our buildings have to comply with in your code in in order to move forward so even if you grant the cup if we don't check any every one of those boxes we can't get our permits so there's a whole another process with respect to our construction plan approval and staff going through and making sure that there's no one 100 ft that isn't articulated or a blank facade I mean we have to meet all of those requirements but that's not part of the conditional use process that's part of our construction plan approval all right am I okay that get back to my question interrupt for just one second that all said we work with Brandon and the team to meet all of those things now we have met those things now but we we won't be able to see like what architectural consistency there is between all buildings I mean we're we're we're being given a we're being given a couple of examples of different renderings of different renderings for parking garage on the south end so you know how am I going to say rendering 9 8 7 six or five you know which one goes with you know I think it's important for you all too right to know that we're seeing the whole picture that we might be missing something architect textually that we can't see so so for example like within your packet of materials there are this is the back side I think it renders the whole thing it does um I don't know that there's exactly this rendering in the front but but Jim you can go through some of those front renderings to show a pretty darn good idea so let's try to do that you don't mind well you can but I mean where your question is going is you're trying to say why do the three buildings not look exactly the same and the answer is because I'm not saying that they have to look the same but there has to be some architectural element between the whole site right that I mean I would think as a client would want it to kind of all mesh together somehow well first I showed you all the different garage versions tonight and specifically called out one and said this matches that garage clearly does you have the renderings for both the the sarata in the middle is a complete hybrid of a building it's kind of styly styleless and neither the JW Marriott or the Hampton in are ever going to look anything like that because nobody in their right mind would build like that the way that that building got built it got built in two different pieces it was a hodg Podge when it got built and to say that there's going to be some greater consistency because of that you you can't hang your hat on that no architect would do that now when I read the staff report there was question on the Port Port share you say it right so has that been finalized do we have something on that it's the same shape the question was should it be right in the center of the building and the answer is it can't be right in the center of the building because the new Lobby is shifted over to the South and to get out of your car you need to get out in the rain walk undercover to walk into the lobby which is to the north because what's in the center is a ceiling height when you walk into the building I know it's like 7 fo 10 or something it's ridiculous low so to make it a functional and better experience for the customer the thing has to be shifted to North and that's what we've done now does it in a classic building where it was perfectly symmetrical would you like it to be that way yeah sure we'd like it to be in the center but is it is it significant in any way from a design perspective no it's not there's there's nothing special about that building it's not making it better it's not making it worse it's just making the function of the building work for what it needs to be so do our staff today have a rendering of what that serata looks like that's going to be developed already final I think there's a model from a while back is there a final yeah the details I mean we had permit drawings ready to be submitted and then process said that uh we couldn't finish it Scott G with kimy horn it's not final because when we were submitting everything we were stopped so there's no final permit drawings I think there was actually even ordering the steel on it so there is an an attempt but again we were stopped by the city in that process can I ask a quick question of of a I'm not sure if it would be for the City attorney or the city manager staff um but I think that we're we're we're getting into some some questions and some discussion of of some very specific architectural detail which is of big concern to residents cuz they're going to have to drive by the building and look at it every day right and and everyone wants the city to look better um I know for myself I'm not even qualified to pick a paint color for my house um I've I've tried I'm terrible at it so so I'm certainly going to be the last person to tell anybody how a building should look but but I think the important thing to remember here is that in our code we don't have architectural standards and and so I'm not sure if this is a a question for Kristen or or Brandon or or or who but our our our basis for these architectural type questions or or qualifications um are based much more on types of features and spacing and that sort of thing rather than show me a rendering and I'll tell you if I think it looks good is that correct I think that's exactly and I think you can speak to that yes you and one of the reasons that we have conditions as part of the CU permit is that it provides objective criteria that we know that we can meet right I think part of the frustration you're hearing with the the architect is that we have been through two city managers different city staff two different commissions and he has pivoted and pivoted and pivoted and there's no objective standard right what looks good to to commissioner Loren might look different to the mayor might look different to you commissioner Marriott and so we feel a little bit like we're chasing a moving Target but I think that if we talk about architectural features and things we could come up with a collective condition that we can add to the cup that gives you comfort that we can integrate these things and I'm going to have to rely some on the AR to say what does that language look like right we talked about this a little bit during our meeting yeah can I comment on that yeah so I mean I think this is where a lot of my questions were stemming from when I was asking Mr Young about the plans for the Sara and how much money is going to be allocated to each building that type of thing and four four point in standards for review in the um Land Development code 4.42 C talks about Will will be compatible with the Jason development based on characteristics such as size building style and scale I yes do what we think looks what I think looks nice might be different than what someone else thinks look nice but what that says to me is and this is in my opinion the heart of St Pete Beach when residents when people from out of town are visiting they're going to look from Golf Boulevard and say does this look nice does it flow and I think that is the is this going to flow from south to North from north to south or is it going to be Hotel 3 looks totally different than that old building in the middle which looks totally different than the upscale JW Marriott I like how you put these renderings together because that helps us picture it a little bit better I know that it's not the full sarata but yeah I mean is the sarata still going to be yellow I mean the simple silly question but you know or are you going to make efforts to try to combine it with how the South and the North look currently those are excellent things and I think that we can together really quickly here sort of put together conditions that give you the comfort that we can integrate this I mean we're never going to be able to make the s look exactly like these two new buildings it's just not going to happen right I mean you look at Resorts unless we were to tear it down from scratch but I feel like if you I can have the architect work while we're talking about other things on some conditions that we can present to you after these questions that maybe can give you the comfort that you need and remember even when this process is over we're going to be working with staff and you can give them your input through our site plan approval process we have to meet the code and we have to make sure that we're satisfying all of those criteria and the criteria of the cup so if if you don't mind I'm going to give some direction to Jim to do some work here while we're we're looking at other things and then let us try to come back with some condition conditions a condition or two or three conditions that might give you comfort and that's okay with you yes I I think that would be great and just to further comment on that you know I think the two biggest pieces to this are and this isn't not this is from the code we want if it gets approved it needs to flow it needs to look nice that's one and two the parking garage can't look like a parking garage and I just want to comment on that really quick because I've sat in so many different meetings with different people and I've heard certain people think something looks like a parking garage and certain people think other things look better so it would be great for us to have this commission tell us collectively which of those renderings you like or do you like this side and this side and we'll work with staff to make sure all those features are Incorporated we can do that we're just looking from some dire for direction from you because we have been given very different directions throughout this entire process and that is not that's a subjective standard that I feel like we're having trouble meeting because I definitely have a favorite right I think this looks really integrated and I love the side and things but you may say well the front of it has slats so that may look like a garage where some of the others are a little more modern but then does it integrates so I I do think that um with respect to not looking like a garage we need to determine what you think the treatments are that make it not look like a garage because there's only so much you can do with this parking structure you can mask it right um and so we would love Collective Direction on that great commissioner laen all right thank you um while you're working on all that and I will say there's not a whole lot of style and flow to St Pete Beach the large buildings I mean the Bell weather looks nothing like anything else uh then you got the the C Mar condo and I'm just throwing a little devil advocate part in there but I think what you're getting at maybe is the three hotels you're going to do two new ones one renovated should look flow but beyond that it's a mish mash um so uh for the civil engineer the storm water U Vault um as I understand it that water just when it gets full I know I understand the Overflow part it goes into the city uh storm water system where does the water go in the vault itself does it typically in this scenario go straight down or does it spread out to adjacent properties I think that's outside yeah Scott gilner again with kimley Hornet associate so it it it basically does both um I would say it's probably more horizontally spreading out everywhere um when there's a higher tide right because the tide comes in and that's tightly influenced and when there's a lower tide it's probably more vertically going out um but in general it's percolating in the direction of of really the gradient of water so if you were to sample there's probably slight little gradients if you sample down it's probably you know 1.1 in or 1.1 feet and it's .9 feet 08 feet as it works its way out towards the beach there's a gradient so normally that water would dissipate in that direction so is there any possibility of that water flowing horizontally toward the sea Mark and affecting their structure no not at all because it's that far away or it's that far away every storm water Pond like that you'd now be talking about um an issue not to mention you being I I think there was a question about whether or not we'd undermine their foundations or an issue we'd be first undermining our foundations if you think about it the vaults built inside the the JW Marriott um I've built countless vaults all over Tampa Bay I can start rattling them off for you but this is not an issue you run into it percolates into the ground now think about it this way that water in a 16-inch rainfall event it still hits that site and it still goes into in the ground whether we're there or not right so it's still the same thing it it's not going to affect them the followup question we've all seen when somebody just puts a pool in St Pete Beach and they're sucking water out of the ground for a month pumping it down the street when you construct The Vault for hotel one and three if I saw that correctly um are you going to hit water when you start digging down and is that water going to have to go somewhere yeah so so we would we would dewater as it's called Uh typically it's done like with well pointing so you'll do a perimeter well point or you'll do it probably in stages with this because the way they fit we're juggling around inside the foundations and the pile caps but yeah we would dewater um easiest way to do it for us is actually percolate it right back into the ground in another area so for instance if we're working on the west side on the JW Marriott we'd pump it to the east side under the JW Marriott let it percolate in the ground and have no issue um if we had to do it somewhere else we would get a a dewatering permit that would discharge offsite site but I honestly with the with the flow rates that we have into the sand and the hydraulic conductivity I really don't think we're even going to have to discharge off site okay so very limited possibility that we're going to see hoses connected out the Gul Boulevard and pumping water for a couple months down the street correct okay now when we're doing utilities and other things right out on the RightWay you certainly will see them so I don't want anybody to get we're not trying to mislead anybody I mean when we do with utilities you know there's an undergrounding project that the city's looking at there will be dewatering out there but it'll be limited to utilities but when you're talking about the Vault itself no I I'm very unlikely all right one more question if I could um we kind of glossed over the uh sewer storm water because I do have a storm water one I'm sorry let me let me I have a storm waterer question so I don't know if you're jumping let me jump on this and we'll come right back to you so um if that's fair enough um so we kind of glossed over the sewer system things but those of us that have reviewed the video two times and the planning board videos and look at Mike Clark's charts and this might be a question for Brandon or Mike Clark I don't know but we're on the subject but if let's say the lift station to the south or north goes out of service for days to weeks is the capacity there to continue the flow safely so if one of your lift station he's right there he is want to answer this but you're going to have a problem that's much bigger than us cuz it's not just a lift station for us that's a lift station for everybody that serves but I'll let Mr Park do that Mike did you hear the question Mike Clark Public Works director yes I'm we're watching out uh in the clerk's office uh the scenario that you describe where a lift station could go out for months or weeks does not exist because we have backup generators that operate off of diesel and the pigtails the electrical pigtails and everything else are already set and we have an operational plan that if one or more more of our 23 lift stations goes out we have a sequencing plan that tells us which lift station we need to go to when and and what sequence based on their volumes of flow in order to maintain operations continuously through however long it takes us to do that we've actually had to implement that plan a couple of times due to power outages in previous events okay thank you um this is just a question for the storm water um you're talking about a specific type of O and I know I spoke with you over the phone on this um as well this is for me and of course for the public as well um to hear because you haven't spoken with Swift Mud yet right or have you spoken with Swift Mud do you know that this is the appropriate design for this particular area next to the the beach you know closer to the water with the water table that we have um reading the packet and I know I mentioned this and just want to put it out there so everybody knows that I've talked about this um I read said that there was U either a treatment option right a vault with treatment option um it could have been contained right all you know not percolating through the bottom um so there was a couple of different scenarios that I read I saw the the proprietary for this particular design of the picture that you showed up on the presentation so I know they offer many different types of volt systems um and it's not that I'm trying to hold you to a particular V I know you're going to go through a stricter uh requirement when you go through Swift Mud but there could be a possibility let's just say that maybe it doesn't look this way it might be a little bit different depending on what they're saying or you already pretty pretty definite on the so so we've already submitted to Swift Mud got in the first round of comments and resubmitted to Swift Mud um and there are no issues with what we're proposing for the open bottom Vault to be honest with you if we had done a closed bottom Vault and done a filtration system that you're referring to and there's many different ones it could just be effectively a holding tank with no treatment in it it could be one with an underd drain in it as you probably saw on their website and then it but every you do a concrete bottom it effectively becomes a bathtub and it must discharge out into the right way now if you go back to what I described we'd now be putting our discharge rates out into the right of way which you already have issues with capacity and Gulf Boulevard that's exactly why we wouldn't do that so um trying to think think of the the storm water deponds I've designed in my career most require a concrete lined uh Vault like you're referring to because it's very uncommon for us to get percolation rates this high and so I can think of one up on Hillsboro Avenue we did where we had probably half this but it still worked and we didn't directly into the ground um and maybe one other one that I can think of but it's uncommon with beach sand like this being this good with the hydraulic conductivity you use that to your advantage because frankly this is Mother Nature's Way of filtering this is what we should be doing as much as we can and and just to add also is the I know it would rarely be used the discharge on to fdot but that would be through a baffle box system or some type of filtration to clean Outsource so so all of the filtration that goes to boa which is why I'm mentioning it yeah so understood so so um all of the filtration that happens happens in the ball and percolates into the ground only in the largest storm events like the 100e 72-hour storm event which you're not dealing with filtration that's already been done that would discharge out and so this really becomes a redundancy to the system and a resiliency component where you know if if those the island were to become overrun with water I mean we're still talking six and seven you know Storm surges at 10 how do you get that water out as fast as possible this is one more Avenue to get that because if it drains into the Vault and it gets out faster through the pipe Network it moves faster than if it's just localized flooding that answer the question commissioner let me clarify one thing um the approval of the cup is not approving the storm water design that will wanted to get out correct I mean they think that is probably the best design at this point our staff has looked at it and I think probably it's the best design but that they will have to get those approvals uh separate from the conditional use permit through uh Southwest Water Management District and the city and and if I may mention uh city manager also with fdot so we would have three we would have City review of our storm water report Swift Mud storm water report fdot stormw report so we'd effectively get three permits for that but in everything I'm seeing I feel very confident in what we're doing with this way we're designing the Vault I've got I've got some questions on the Vault system well that's a Hot Topic you said you said you let's go you said you've designed them throughout Tamp Tamp Bay Area have you designed any on any of the barrier islands uh yes Cory Landings is one permitted Swift mut um let me think where else no that might be the only one on the Barrier Island here St Pete Beach okay so if I was listening to what you were saying there's you're in a way guaranteeing that there's no way this Vault system is going to cause a water issue for the C Mark north of it the Vault itself I I I mean I don't know what the C Mark has from a structural standpoint but when you're asking me is the Vault itself going to have any any if issue or influence on the C Mark no answer is no okay and could you clarify why it's going under the JW Marriott and not the larg one not where like Hotel 3 is it it's going under both I understand that so so because one you need access to it so it typically is very easy to put into a parking garage if we were to put it under Green Space you end up limiting the green space and then we can't plant can't plant Landscaping on top of it so you end up either putting it in Drive AES or in the parking garage um since we're doing pile caps and foundation design it's a very efficient spot to put it in to then construct under there okay and if it discharges it will 100% go east you're saying well it's it's discharging down into the ground for almost n right I understand but in the event yeah it's it's discharging so you have Curb inlets and grade inlets on site and then you have a pipe Network that basically comes out and then feeds into fds right away thank you y we still asking questions of the experts as long as you want all right great I've got one for uh Rebecca the traffic consultant um this should be a quick one does a traffic study take into any provisions for future growth I know that said it had future growth on there but like trade wins that type of thing future projects absolutely um just to restate for the record Becca bond with uh kimley horn professional engineer Transportation engineer on this project um it has taken a growth rate uh into account for growing the existing counts to the future background so that was the 2% exponential each year growth rate um it does not consider possible future projects that are not yet approved um that's part of a standard concurrency process um a standard even when you're not a concurrency jurisdiction that's the standard procedure is that when you know a future development comes in they will be required to do a traffic study and they would be required to include the projects before them um that aren't yet constructed so basically that list dies off as things do get constructed Ed those are new existing trips on the roadway that would be captured in the counts so you have those existing counts we've applied a growth rate you know to be conservative and then we've added you know those two vested developments that aren't yet fully built out um myar and C excuse me Corey Landings and then um added our project traffic on top of that I know that was a question for Becca but I do want you to know that staff did require the trade wins to consider serata because I'm also their representative so consistent with how you handle these issues staff did do that and so in that Transportation study you will see both of them okay thank you absolutely how many cars per day are you adding let me refer I'm going to look at the numbers I got a lot of documents here so give me a second so uh it varies by peak hour but typically PM peak hours that we go off of Just per day per day I can get you that answer and I know that um my my partners in the the audience uh we typically don't include daily we study peak hours that is the industry standard So Am Pm and in this case we've added Saturday um so I can find that information but that's the standard so it'll take us a second okay so on page 313 of the package which package I'm sorry that okay the the agenda package the one that's for the for the meeting the one that everybody else has I guess yeah so it says here that your distribution is approximately 70% of trips expected to travel North on Gulf Boulevard and then 30% traveling south in Gul Bard I believe that yes that's accurate I I don't don't know what you're looking at um just I'm reading what it says here this is what what's in your it's 313 it's page five of the the Kim home which one of them I am I allowed to give my copy yeah I have the traffic impact analysis it's 313 and it's page five of the traffic impact analysis yes okay so then it says adjustments were made based on local knowledge of the roadways what adjustments were made uh the adjustments that were made were I discussed in my presentation based on feedback from the commission um that you wanted to see traffic uh added to the local roadways so that was um Gulf Winds and uh blind pass so we did make those adjustments um those roadways were not shown in the model um so we added those in based on feedback okay and then on page 330 you've got the three driveways and your curb Cuts right and then you say driveway one anticipated 33 South 15 North and then driveway two 8 South four North driveway three 40 South 31 Northbound okay yeah um that's 6040 South North not 7030 north south so which which number is accurate is the traffic going North 7030 is it going south 6040 I think he's just looking at the the project traffic um Becca I know you've run this a number of ways does it make a difference with your analysis with respect to the trip going north or south I will say the driveway movements would be impacted with the distribution change however the roadway Capacity Analysis will the outcome will not change depending on where the distributions are set we have run the roadway Capacity Analysis with 100% of the trips along each study roadway segment and it still is below the capacity standard and operates acceptably great and just trying to reconcile the discrepancy in your numbers because it says 7030 one way then it says 6040 the other way yeah I have done the math I am a professional licensed engineer in the State of Florida if you would like me to go through the math with you I can do that but this is not well you you're giving me were you giving us two different numbers for the same scenario and we're simply trying to understand help us understand which one is it is it this one or is it the other one that's can we get two minutes sure absolutely should we take a recess to make the most out of our time or no okay make it short though no we need to get through this it's exactly 7030 just like the model output when you look at page well it's figure two of the Tia me the page number please some we have no other way of referencing it it's your it's it's your page 315 look I think it's your page 23 right it's that is the project trip distribution that is you know now detailed out at each of the study intersections and at the project driveways if you look at driveway one the southbound movements are the traffic that is coming from the north if you add those two together together 39 + 31 = 70 if you look at driveway 3 which is the southernmost driveway and you add up the Northbound movements mhm 12 and 18 that equals 30 which is just what the model output said I don't know where you're getting that it's our page 315 mayor I wasn't 315 yeah that's that's not the page I was referencing though it's called Figure two project trip distribution it has percentage symbols after the numbers can while you're looking at the numbers can I just make a a statement to maybe help out a little bit here just there's a lot of obviously emotion in in this whole thing right um and a lot of new people and and and everything I'm not here to dispute your calculations okay um because what it is it's it's the residents and how we know there's traffic I mean you don't you don't need to do a whole traffic study to tell me there's going to be traffic or not right and and we I'm not here to debate your numbers I live here I've lived in places that are way more heavily um populated um you know Miami Beach North Bay Village Tampa itself you know we know it's there um this community is not only impacted by Redevelopment but anything that's happening outside our Barrier Island right we've got people coming here all the time I am more wanting to know how as a new development in our community is going to help mitigate what we know is here already right what is in your transportation plans that um because I didn't really get I didn't see it and I try to look for a detail right like ways that that Sussex um whatever we're going to call the whole lot right what what suis is going to do to help not only your people coming to your Resort but those who live here mitigate traffic absolutely we have two access points truly in in our Island you're either going to go through the Bayway or you're going to go through um 75th we know you can go down um to um Madera or Treasure Island but for the most part your guests are going to come through the Bayway it's the easiest way to come from the airport or for the Tampa area is to come through the Bayway for for a guest for residents we are coming through Pasadena um Gulf Winds um cut throughs you know we I'm trying to get to uh the school or you know shopping or whatever it may be there are ways that a Redevelopment can mitigate um traffic right whether it's shuttle specific I mean I want hardcore things what kind of you know shuttle systems maybe you're going to be doing maybe doing this in conjunction with other hotels um we're saying freebie but why does it have to be freebie why couldn't you have your own why use from the one that our current residents are using why not establish your own why not work with Local Economic companies within our beach um you know if you're going to go Sunset Cruise you know working with people who own businesses here to say hey we have a coner we want you to offer your business to our guests right you come shuttle pick them up so there's not multiple trips coming out of the driveway right reduced from your site um so it doesn't impact the residents who are living here you know I I would want to see what is the detailed plan of helping mitigate what we know is there already or being compounded in the future yes and happy to talk about that we we've got a transportation management plan and I know we talked about condition 30 earlier let me quickly say that I know that I have the traffic Transportation label um that label really means that I do the math the very technical aspects of this and what is required by the code uh which is which is really primarily what the study is apart from that one you know transportation management plan page but I can say that we as a team can provide that answer to you um there multiple things that we could talk about it might I might lean on um other members of the team who you know brainstormed a little bit more with the client on those aspects and have been involved in those city meetings and meetings with um the commission so I can tell you that outlined in the transportation management plan it's I'm sorry that I do not have the same report as you it is page 25 of the um traffic impact analysis we have outlined bullet points but I think since this draft was completed I believe that there are quite a few few additional things that have been added throughout conditions so uh at least I don't know if that's you or Scott that wants to talk to that but I'd be happy to you know step away and let them answer and mayor while there and and for for Becca also while they're figuring out who's answering this question I think that the um the the sheet you had on the overhead a second ago and the confusion about Northbound and and southbound traffic um comes from the the um I think you were looking at page our page 330 and 331 about um right turns and left turns at each driveway and I think depending on whether you interpret that as right turns or left turns out of the driveway or off of Gulf Boulevard makes makes the difference in the math so this says I'm just reading what it says they're anticipated to be 33 southbound right turns that can only be interpreted one way you you're coming out and you're making a right going Southbound I think that what that actually means is that you're traveling south on Gulf Boulevard and you turn right into the driveway that is accurate and so and so if you if you inter like if so if if if that's what they mean is that you're traveling south on GF Boulevard and you turn right into the driveway then the numbers add up to the same number numers that they give you earlier in the packet about Northbound and southbound traffic okay so is that leaving or is that arriving arriving turning into the site okay still doesn't add up because it's 6040 not 7030 but it it does add up the 70 and the 30 are percentages I understand I I I am I know how to calculate percentages but if you're looking I I think this is yeah I know I don't I don't think it I mean I I think I think whether you're talking 7030 or 6040 it it it gets us in the ballpark where it seems less like a huge glaring error but but but you right you know but yeah I and and then the the other part is which is part of what you were saying is when you look at the traffic pattern it's almost all going south of the Bayway so mayor can I address that piece because if we were to come to you with a traffic study that puts 70% of our traffic to the South all of the discussion we've had has been intersections north of our site okay and you would think we were avoiding the issues to the north but in reality we're not we're giving 70% of the traffic to the north through all those intersections and they still work okay so we can cut it 5050 6040 7030 or 100 Z in any direction it still works okay did you um are you familiar with um G Coast Consulting Inc traffic study Consultants no I'm not they did the study for the trade Wis last year a couple years ago when they submitted a traffic St I don't know what the date was 2022 I'm familiar with them generally okay so they also had just they had different numbers they had 60 going south 40 going north and they had an estimated 5200 5192 daily trips for their project is there a question in there yes I I asked a question earlier about how many daily trips we're adding trying to get an idea he's working okay I I don't want to forget the question that you had about the transportation management plan and what are we doing in addition so there there's a couple things and I'm going to let Scott also talk Scott about the site access issues so we've talked about this a lot as a team from the very beginning a year and a half ago we sat down and as soon as we knew that the traffic study was going to show that yes the roads are going to function with acceptable acceptable levels of service and acceptable capacity we said well there's a challenge right there is the perception that these roads don't function appropriately for a number of reasons because when people get on the road it's slow you've had construction for four years years fdot puts those crosswalks out that makes everybody stop so it's not related to Traffic necessarily it is traffic as we think of it as lay people right I'm a lay person you're a lay person we're not Traffic Engineers right it's how long does it take me to get to the grocery store right that's what what people are thinking about so there's a multitude of things that go into your daily experience so as a team we said how can we try to address that daily experience now we can't stop the construction projects that are out there but we do understand from City staff that those are winding down and that other lane is going to open back up and and have a lot of relief but what can we do particularly on our site now you already have statutes and impact based on statutes you have impact fee ordinances that have done an analysis and they've said if we are building hotels and this many square feet of amenities we it used to be back in the day that we would fix the roadways right but this is an fdot right of way and so the city has adopted impact fee ordinances that says we're going to allocate a certain amount based on your demand and you're going to pay the city and we're going to pay that money into a coffer and then the city wants to more globally make those improvements so that's a given so so the first thing that we have done is that we're we're going to have to pay our impact fees right there are I'm going to give you round numbers there are a million dollars and about half of those according to Kevin go back to the city that's 500,000 we're also giving 500,000 additional that we already talked about with the freebie but we also have when we design this site and Scott's going to tell you the details but we thought about how can we design this site to take traffic off the road or to encourage people to walk in between our integrated site right you saw our pedestrian connectivity the idea is don't be lazy and go out and take a let's make it easy let's we're wide ing the sidewalks we have more public beach access and all of this on-site queuing the on-site queuing was huge and I know that you had a concern commissioner Riki about where it's located but that came from all of these discussions out of the community meeting and out with discussions with Commissioners and with City staff to say how can we pull that traffic off of Gul Boulevard and onto our specific site we were really thoughtful in that there's a you probably didn't see it cuz there's thousands of pages but there is a queuing analysis we've queed on site so much so that the queuing isn't going to happen on Gul Boulevard because so many of the issues that you see are stopping behind people people turning in and turning out if those can be free flowing movements I know you don't like the three access points but it definitely helps with the circulation in and out of the site and it helps with the ability to not feel like you're constantly running into somebody coming in and out of the site so that's a little bit of background but I think it's really important as you think about this issue Scott can you just talk from an engineering perspective about what you did on the site with that in mind yeah I I mean I think as we've talked about pedestrian connectivity is one right we've also widened the sidewalk along Gulf Boulevard keep in mind the safety improvements that are now a condition along G Boulevard now those safety improvements are coming whether we there or not but as a condition we're willing to pay our proportionate share in front of the site um so as you kind of work through this it's a combination of things we've also got a specific parking location for I think the freebie and a ride share um again you know all of the things and Becca started with it's a very conservative analysis to start we've already been you know the counts that we actually have are lower than the trip gen that you would do if you just calculated it but we're using the higher trip gen right and then we're looking at queuing then we're looking at how ride share works and we're not even counting ride share we're not counting any of those things that are are basically helping from a multimodal perspective we're also not counting you know it's hard to figure out where you are I mean in the world meaning the beach there's no connectiv connectivity in the traffic study between the uses even though someone in hotel 3 is very likely going to walk over or go to the pool in hotel one or they're going to go on the beach access along there and then walk further north along the beach but that's not counted in this because we do it to the code and the standards as we go through so as you work through all these pieces all of that lends itself to start to knock down those trips and those additional pieces you're talking about you know it could be micr Mobility it could be scooters it could be bike rentals it could be all of those various things that start to add up but I think the farther you get up Gul Bard and the more you widen those sidewalks the more traffic you are going to take off those streets and the more people are going to walk rather than jump back in the car and go somewhere because it's not inviting to walk up and down the street now and I think a lot of those dot safety improvements go that way as well that help answer that question yeah not not completely but yes I mean if you have because of detail you know I I know that's happening anyway we look at the vision of the city our vision is to have 10 foot wide box not just in front of this Resort all the way across right that's a vision right to make it safer for the community right so I think that's something that that's required right we we're looking at that we want people to walk we want people to use micromobility we want people to be safe right that so that was there so so I want to know other things that that we're doing as developments are coming in or hotels or people are are redesigning that we're getting people off the street right so that residents who have to I mean I got to go to work right so I I can't take my probability to go to my job right so but what can the the businesses specifically Resorts you know or vacation rentals or whoever is doing that kind of business removes people off of the street have you seen the safety upgrade draft report pardon so there's an fdot safety upgrade have you seen it so it's it's very specific where it details crosswalks at an intersection which ones need to be repaired how do you you know re restripe those crosswalks how do you widen certain Ada ramps that don't exist so it's very specific in there and we've actually gone through those details and understand what we'd be responsible for in front of there and agreeing to do all of that I mean can we go go a mile North and figure that out you know when we were in the neighborhood meetings some people would tell us they couldn't stand the traffic because they were stopping at all the crosswalks and then you'd say half the people want more crosswalks because it's unsafe when you cross AC cross it's hard for us to gauge a lot of those things so the things we're doing specifically are what's ever in that safety upgrade report that we've agreed to as a condition we're more than happy to do those are specific the freebie or the 5 $1,000 that is specific it's our condition our impact fees are specific in our condition and they're based on our unit count um the the driveways that we're doing are are very specific to us the queuing analysis we're doing is very specific to us the sidewalk connectivity the public beach access the second crosswalk across Gulf Boulevard those are all things we're doing they're specific to our cup plan I get that I'm talking about and I think I read some somewhere on on the might have been the staff report maybe one of you might remember an example being hotel shuttles I was getting ready to say there's two things that we haven't talked about that's specific and separate from yes what we're I know making is having a shuttle available when people want a shuttle absolutely I think it's in our condition um and having bus passes for employees right those are those extra things that we're doing as well so cumulatively um yes sorry that we forgot to mention those but but we are doing both of those things um and we've stated that on the record and I believe the shuttle service is in the condition so it's a condition like um you know I think about when I go on on a vacation and I'm someplace you know I go to Hawaii right and if I know that the hotel I'm staying at offers a shuttle from the airport to the resort I'm not going to rent a car right but when I don't see that it's readily available and and again this is working together right maybe maybe you work with Brightwater or or sorry bellweather or with the trade winds or other hotels in the area that do drop offs I is that kind of stuff that we're talking about when we think about these types of Transportation plans yes to reduce again vehicles on the road and you may or may not realize this but that shuttle requirement is actually in Kevin says it's the Land Development code I don't know if it's in the comp plan but in the large resort District we we have to do that anyway um it's interesting with shuttles too because now so many people Uber and do different things but yes you you have that requirement already in your code so as a commission you're as you're drafting these regulations you're thinking about those things um but but we'll have that as well as the bus passes as well I've got a few questions and comments in that category so the shuttle is is it specific to your Resort or no it's at again with other hotels from an operational perspective we talked about this a lot um because so many people Uber we will have a a shuttle service and all we have to do is call and say your flight is coming in at 1 o'clock you need a shuttle so it will be an on demand shuttle service okay but it it'll be third party we're not going to own the shuttle okay understood and then you're going to have a spot for ride sharing oh yes for Uber U I think there's more than one I'll comment on that quite frankly uh getting an Uber sometimes on St P Beach can be an issue because there's not enough out here so um by providing that there may be more Uber drivers out here um the question I have regarding traffic from trucks potentially bringing materials to the site are there any areas I don't think so but that would require fill fill dirt coming in or anything of that nature yes Scott gner again with kimley horn Associates um the majority of Phill that we're talking about it actually might be export so it's relatively balanced um I I think you heard me say that we're going to mine that dirt in the vault areas and then put it out to the beach what we'd have to take off site we would take off site but this is not a large import or export site where we're going to have trucks bring and fill in countless times um it's you I think it was 4,400 cubic yards which is really small in terms of but that's that's what we need out there some of that is coming from onsite as we talked about okay thank you I've got oh go ahead you have more I was just going to say I have an answer to the Daily trips question so I'll jump in and answer that and then I'll feel free um so for the daily trips like I mentioned that's not the industry standard for what's used in analysis um so the it trip generation manual Institute of Transportation Engineers doesn't have uh daily rates or equations for all of the different land use codes that we used um so we used 310 311 and 330 for the different types of of hotels that are going to be on site um however they do provide uh daily rates and equations for um land use code 310 which is the standard hotel So based on just using that land use code um it's an estimated 2,438 trips a day now keep in mind that is a full 24-hour day when you break that down that would be about 1.7 trips a minute now of course most of the tra or a higher percentage of the traffic will occur in those peak hours which is why we study those peak hours um that's the industry standard so that was 24 38 2438 excuse me is that additional trips or is that total trips additional trips correct thank you for the clarification yeah in addition to the ones currently already happening to the property correct and this is based on like I said the it trip generation for land use code 310 um as we're seeing based on our driveway counts to today based on the number of existing hotel rooms uh it's generating fewer trips per room than we're seeing in that it rate so we anticipate it would be less than that but based on the it standard that is the total daily trips I don't know if it's okay to switch to some of our staff but uh fire chief if you're out there if you could come in and Brandon I've got a question for you while we're waiting for him the uh the chart that the serata attorney handed us all um I I don't know if the city has something similar do you concur with this do you see any holes in it what if I get a copy of that thank Winward well it's not the only Redevelopment District no no I'm saying like as far as potential projects in the pipeline yeah that's not so when word is if he's yeah if he's if he concurs with this or he's got a different take on it I know I know there was the opinion given about the postcard in at the beach it looks like the max density that is cited here is in line with what could potentially be allowed based on the code from a development standpoint if it would be limited to less than that I'm not really sure the the applicant was correct and stated that they do have significantly stricter standards on their law due to their location next to a property outside the community redevelopment District um this appears to be in line I did put together an analysis some time ago I can check it when we're on break and and compare it with this but um for the purpose of that analysis it was generally assumed that Condominiums would not redevelop so that is in line with what they're showing here um the Dolphin Beach Resort that appears to be the correct aage same for the Hilton Garden and the beach comr so it looks to be generally in line with the analysis we've done I I can check in more detail I appreciate that thank you Brandon while you're up there and this is for the large resort District as far as outside of that how many others would you consider in the pipeline now outside of the large resort district there has been a community meeting for the Winward pass development that was just brought up I I believe that is 104 units um that is in the bayou residential district which is down at the 3800 block on the east side um that is the only one that I believe has had a community meeting which is the first step step in the process we've had communication with others but nothing concrete so didn't that one go to TRC a couple days ago or it did yes okay so it's further along than just the community meeting correct it's at TRC it's under revision I believe so and Brandon do we count the Donar expansion as one as well because it was one of the Redevelopment projects that were listed they they aren't adding any additional units to that building they are redevelop or they're they're renovating rather to move some units around but it's not increasing unit count we will still provide as concurrency certificate because of the ballroom but it's no additional units it's it's intensity that's being added could I ask a question and I think this may be a more appropriate question for uh for Miss Bond the the traffic engineer or or perhaps Brandon but when when we're talking about the increased traffic from from this project and I know that a lot of the residents concerns have to do with potential future projects which I also get can't really be a a a a reason in in figuring this conditional use permit but but I think one of the concerns about traffic is is how much additional traffic could there be on Golf Boulevard before we get to that level of service that is unacceptable you know so like I don't know if you can extrapolate like how many projects of this size would create a a a loss of you know or a decline in level of service and if I can yeah if if I could kind of go on with that there was a graphic you had about excessive with Golf Boulevard yeah oh uh yeah can you switch back to the slides thank you yeah that's that's what yeah so I think we'll we'll keep this up here um the green portion of the bar graph is the remaining capacity after our analysis with our project trips added so you can see uh development of of our scale is at would add approximately you know the orange portion um onto the roadway but the more important thing here is that each development that comes in is required to adhere to the traffic study standards so with each one that comes in they're required to study you know the background trips their additional project trips on the roadway and they won't be approved if they don't mitigate for any excess or any like breaking capacity or um uh any vover I don't want to get too technical V overse levels level of service that that are not acceptable based on the code so I have not done additional analysis because I I don't know what's coming in the future and that's that's not required for our project but um each development that comes in is required to do that and they will be required to mitigate for it when the time comes what what level of service are we currently at I'm sorry what was the question what level of service are we currently at so I actually do have another I have a slide for that um so the level of service is is typically measured using and that this is what's done in uh pelis County uh no it's actually slide uh okay uh so it's set by the fdot uh standard service volume tables and the fdot actually doesn't set A and B thresholds sometimes they don't even set C thresholds so I would be guessing if I told you uh we go off the thresholds that are set by the industry and most jurisdictions use level of service d as their standard so it's not very often that you see different standards lower than that Set uh yes that's the correct one so we're going to put something up here so this is directly from the um fdot uh standardized volumes table the this is a document that was produced in January of 2023 um this is specifically for C4 uh context classifications which is what Gulf Boulevard um is context classification and so you can see that b they don't L and this is directional by the way so when you see one lane that's really a two link cross-section when you say two C2 that's four um they don't set thresholds for the B and the C does have a threshold um so most most are currently right between that that um they're not at a level service D excuse me I'm sorry explain explaining this in thresholds without having a reference for you they're not exceeding that D threshold capacity um they some of them are currently level of service D some of them are C the standard is that you cannot exceed D but I can't some of them are better than that but I can't break it down any further because there's no threshold I think it would be helpful Becca can you explain what the level of service of the is today and what it is after our project I don't know that you've said that yeah I can't answer it because I there's no it's no no no our our I I can't I can't answer it because there's no I don't have a threshold to reference for B sorry you go up to level service D correct we have noted yeah you can't exceed level of service D some of them are current ly at D some of them are below that some of them are at what the lowest I can go is C so some are at C some are at D there none of them are exceeding D and is it and and again I apologize if this isn't a fair question just trying to put put this in layman's terms is there a um is there a description you can give of like what is it like to drive on a road that is level of service D like is there a is there a a uh you know like or or is there a a even in even in an extreme sense is there like a road that you know of that you know that we might be familiar with where you would go well if you're driving on you know Central Avenue right before first Friday that is a level of service e or or is there anything that can kind of put that into context well it it's it's a it is very yes it's quantitative in terms of volumes compared to cap capacity so in if you're looking at volumes in capacity or you're running a a detailed model on the computer then that is quantitative however when it comes to descriptions you know that's extremely qualitative and I actually lead a technical training at kimley horn regarding uh how you you know discuss the level of service and they always say it is so dependent on the specific user experience and perception so they often say yeah they often say like in a rural community level of service D feels like absolutely horrible you know if you're sitting at a rural stop sign for a really long time it feels like a really terrible user experience if you're in you know down a downtown core a level of service D is feels great like oh my gosh I only sat at this signal for one cycle um you know I usually sit here for two now those are two very different experiences so it really is hard to do it it's a different perception for everyone so that's I mean that's why we rely on the volumes and that's why we rely on the numbers thank you I did ask the same question last time on sorry on in December what's the difference between where we are and what's the threshold and number of cars until we go over the I don't remember what you said it's on the table so if we go back to the slide it's on here yeah so how many more cars can we it's different for each roadway segment the numbers are here let's let's take Golf Boulevard so what's the number for and what areas is this Golf Boulevard is what stretch is it what stretch is this Gulf Boulevard is it from the Bayway to 75th like what uh of the of all Flo this specific um graphic we did study um all the way from the the Bayway to 75th but this graphic is the worst case segment for each of these roadways that help clarify what you're looking at yeah I'm trying to get a little understanding too as well because it's you know I participated at the Don csar hotels Expansion Project and we were told it was a level of service D correct on the Bayway and Gulf correct that's what and that's accurate and the standard is that you cannot exceed the level of service D correct yes you were not wrong um how much longer before we exceeded timeline wise I can't tell you he just told me the volume but I can't I don't so on the worst case scenario of Gulf Boulevard uh the green segment there that's 258 trips the capacity remaining before you exceed the level of service D or daily this is all peak hour that's the industry standard based on the peak hour okay okay and and I'm taking you're saying it it's like the experience right because I'm looking at Pasadena Avenue and I'm like absolutely and I don't know I've had bad experien in Pasadena Avenue too so the stay is before they've removed the lane yeah exactly no true oh that's what that is yeah I have updated we we we met with or we discussed with um um the mo about that issue because their tables had not been updated to reflect the the lane change yes so we have a new service volume for that we are still not exceeding the capacity I've checked that with them um and I also want to say that there has been a lot of construction I know that on these roadways so that does impact the traffic and you know the goal is that when the construction is finished and there's you know which I know it feels like in this world there's always construction going on but um these traffic studies are done based on the code based on the peak hour scenario very specific criteria that that you're right does not take into account the construction because it is a standard analysis commissioner renson I just had no more questions for the traffic expert but if if I could ask of the fire chief see him standing back there the Indian chief thinking if we can get through questions and then the recess and then audience comments yeah I've got a few more questions hey good evening just wanted I think this was addressed on December 5th but I can't remember the exact answer so I think we're looking at 25 246 additional rooms so multiply that by two or three whatever at worst at Max capacity of the hotel being full EMS wise fire people EMS are we good are you asking me call volume based on the number are we good on the the staff you have now are we talking additional staff there's no way that I can predict how many calls are going to be generated by those rooms or those occupancies um I think our our plan basically is to create that Baseline through that study and see what impacts that possibly could occur you know from those uh those rooms and then adjust after the fact you know as far as our response model um I don't think that uh anyone could tell you what those calls would be um based on those number of rooms you have a good sense now of how many calls go to hotels right like percentage wise 70 80 I don't know 30 so yeah I'd like to speak factually and just make sure that I'm not uh you know projecting out an accurate information so I can tell you that uh there will be an impact to call volume I can't tell you that uh necessarily that would be a um that our model currently wouldn't be able to handle it so right now we do have some capacity built into the model that we have now uh we just added three additional firefighters one position so I think that we'd have to see how it meet it out after that to adjust in the future so okay so you don't see any major issue coming down I don't see any major issues at this point our concerns are really about access about you know getting onto the property getting into the buildings getting you know the stuff that the fire code and the site plan review that we go through rigorously with staff and with uh their team you to make sure that all those questions are answered and all those codes are met okay thank you Elise is it good for um since he's here to see that picture that you were asking if that was what he was requiring the the walk the structure over the Dooms don't leave fire chief chief hold on I think you mentioned it and he wasn't in the room you want to line up your questions and have them get ready for it I'm ready for I'm saying like do you want to let them know who's up next there one's a one's a be's question one's design architect couple are design architect where'd he go I think the discussion we were having earlier was that was about the beach walkover and that if if this you know this is what is in passag gril and if and and that's what they're planning for the for the main 15 foot beach access point as a dune walkover and if that is if that is the kind of you know like it I think we wanted clarification that that was the kind of thing that was acceptable to to you guys as far as being able to have emergency access to the beach we had a conversation Bri briefly in the lobby Kelly you want to come up for a moment this is the far Marshall Kelly but there are certain specs to it uh I don't know this crossover which is the 21st one appears to be 21st half so uh Kelly go ahead yeah Kelly and says Fire Marshall um we we were approached today out in the lobby regarding this design so we just want to be more it's not a pedestrian walkover it's a vehicular emergency vehicular drive over so it will have to be designed to withhold the heaviest load of the fire apparat that will be crossing over that system right there so and the width of it has to accommodate it as well as the weight of it so it's not going to be pedestrian it's going to be vehicular so and that design will come during the site plan review which we go into more detailed and we work with their engineering team in more detail on the design great thank you Nick all right I've got a views question and then I've got question on the shade study and architecture I don't know who I should address those to see what the question appropriate person the land Land Development code excuse me section 412 uh 9B Pro proximity of any adjacent residential buildings to the Florida CCC line and the degree to which the proposed temporary lodging use and or accessory use or structure maintains an open view of the Waterfront from neighboring properties Scott actually is probably the appropriate person um from a site design perspective they put together the open view area again remember it's not it's when it says open view that doesn't mean you nobody builds anything around you it's does everybody on that property still have a view of the water and Scott has looked at that from his line of sight studies I think you're talking about the triangle y yeah Scott gner with kimley horn Associates so are you yeah I guess my question is is that maintaining an open View uh so The Way We Lay this out I mean I don't know how it's not um that's at the very back corner so the Southeastern corner of the C Mark so you're probably not even in a condo unit at that point but we took the most conservative spot we could be and and said here's what we're doing because again we have to look at what's existing then what we could do and then when how we were thoughtful into the design that's the question so when we're looking at this if I go back one slide we could slide up to the 30 foot Mark and we could slide all to the cccl line but we don't do that we we did what's on the bottom of the screen so what I'm showing you here is that would be the view if we maintain the minimum of the code but instead we opened it up with the area in blue that goes beyond the area in red and how how did you conduct that in that angle and exp the view is the red and the blue not right one or the other okay so I'm not sure what you mean by how did you conduct so how did you how did you create that angle did you go in the building did you go with the farthest east unit and look out no we went to literally the corner of the building so we're certainly the view is better from every Point as I move towards the water so I'm literally at the corner so if I'm on here the if I'm if this is the southeast corner I'm on the corner of the building and then I draw that line to where it hits our building and then I keep projecting it out and that's where we would block it but if that building is closer to the northern property boundary and further out to the 3cl line then it's obviously bringing that line you know tighter in which is the red versus opening it up with the blue so red and blue it's really it's either red red or red plus blue so I guess then my question would be maybe it's a question for at least then what about the units that are six seventh flooring up that now can look currently with the height of the the building at the Sado that can look over that building and look South down the beach absolutely again the the standard does not require that we keep the views exactly the same as they are and the standard assumes when you're looking at the Land Development regulations and how you have to look at them that views are going to be impacted right but the question is are we maintaining an open view of the water for all of those individuals absolutely they still have a view they still have a view of the water Scott is showing you that they have a view corridor towards the water there's this long H line of case law that talks about uh riparian owners that means owners that are on the beach right and and there's I'm not going to go into too much detail but it talks about people that are behind you right and it says specifically that those owners have have a right to basically look out from their property and have a view of the beach it doesn't say anywhere in Florida law doesn't say there's no public view easements that just there just is not and that doesn't mean that you have an unobstructed view in all in all ways can you look at the beach from your property and have an open view of the water absolutely every single condominium there that and the bell weather there's an exhibit on the Bell weather that shows exactly the same thing can they see the water can they go out on their balcony and see the beach absolutely yes okay thank you and um can I add something to that Y for the record Kevin real Western Miller for the applicant um so the the criteria you're looking at to is 4.12 A9 it's got a and b right and this is Elise talked earlier about how the specific has to control over the more General this is the most uh specific view statement in in this criteria and what we bolded here are um what the requirement is and so what it says is you look at the amount of Separation provided the code tells you how to measure what the development is doing it says look at the amount of Separation provided and we're providing double the setback from from the minimum um and you look at the existing buildings and the joing pro properties and then additionally so for the B part you look at the proximity of any adjacent residential building to the fla Coastal Construction Control line um and so what we our property is built back from the coastal uh Construction Control line uh and the C Mark you look at the proximity and you look at that Residential Building it's closer to that line so the the co the it's not as ambiguous as you would see the code tells you how to do it move away and move back from move away from the from the sideline move back from the setback line and we've done that and as far as the cccl goes C Mark is closer and we're double the setback from the code requirement from the what the code requirement I guess on that my question would be what about the residential condo buildings across the street on Gulf Boulevard and their views so the case law that Elise was talking about uh that that's really speaking more directly to that so these two properties that we're talking about here C Mark and and this property on on the beach they have the right to that view case law says unequivocally if you're not on the water you don't have a right to that view well they're on the water but not on the beach they right and that's actually a great point they have a view they have a view right to the Bay they don't have a view right to the gulf that's right yeah you go ahe and it right there there's it's in your it's in your records it specifically talks about the fact that up owners Upland owners meaning you get a view towards your water that you're fronting on not towards water that you're not fronting on that that's it in a nutshell all right thank you my other question is um regarding the shade study it's page 146 in our book um not just 146 December 20 21st at noon I can't really tell from this Dimension that shade how many floors up is that covering at the C Mark so Jim you Jim can explain this they looked at but I'm going to tell you from Layman's perspective just because I didn't understand it and then he can come up and tell you what the the architectural explanation is they studied at all different times during the year right December 2 21st was the worst day of the year in the shade study and then the C Mark is blocked at 2 hours in the morning but that's the worst time of the year at only those two times so yes they'll be shade on the building for those two barrier period for that very limited time in December Jim do you want to give more explanation to that my my question is specifically on the image at noon there's still shade it looks like on the building is it just on the ground is it four stories up I can't tell just from the dimension of the image that's fair remember there's a building there now as well I understand can you can you address this J I mean are you saying it's totally clear of the first level of the SE Mark balconies at noon It's just tough tough for me to tell from that Dimension okay so it's you're saying it's clear of that on the worst day of the year for shade December 21st by noon it's clear of the first levelor I mean well you can't really see in this I mean we could move the view so you could if you were looking for the exact minute but I think it's reasonably close to say from looking at that that that's that time is about the time that it stops being on the building at all all right thank you and then another question while you're up here um regarding design Southside um Southside of building one of the JW Marriott the color scheme going down the beach walkway is that something that you definitely want in there or there other no you and I talked earlier in the week about making it a textured white of some materials it just as more of a tonal thing abolutely fine with that we we were just trying to enli that area a little bit and I just want to bring it up because I'm curious of other Commissioners input on it I think no no that's what he said we said I don't want to say that I don't like bright colors I think what you already spoke about earlier that if talk about what the overall flow and everything seeing it together helps no I think that you want to get that wow you know not not getting the wow I hate to say it it's very subjective but seeing separate renderings doesn't let me m you know I can't see it you know and I'm not trying to say give it to me right now now obviously I know you can't but I won't be able to say do I like you know the look of those multiple colors when now I'm looking at potentially mosaics versus the Planters versus the shimmering wind curtain screen you know it's it's hard to get that whole you know kind of address that already how we might have to deal with it no I we don't have any issue with that I've got some questions probably more related to conditions so save to the end conditions we can discuss yeah now we're at the end no at the End plus I'd love to hear from from residents and see what conditions they may have right all right Commissioners any further questions okay we shall take a 11 minute recess 1010 we are back all right if you are going to be speaking or testifying and you have not been sworn in yet would you please stand raise your right hand and jeny will administer your o do you swear or affirm that the factual in that the information or factual representation that you are about to give or present is truthful thank you city clerk let's proceed with audience comments first will be Ken Barnes for C Mark condos have we decided how many minutes we're giving them we haven't made any changes okay uh we haven't made any changes I I don't think we heard an announc we have nine folks here from the building that have stayed and would yield their time okay does that will you be I'm hoping to do it in 20 I asked for 30 can we shoot for 20 I'll do my best mayor I know everybody wants to go home and we're not in a hurry to get home we just want to make sure everyone gets hurt understood correct sure and just she's asked us to have the folks identify themselves is that okay with the Commissioners we do that now okay so y'all can you hear me if you're from the cart can you stand up and identify yourself you don't all have to say anything just we see you we count you thank you I was going to have them give their social security numbers too so thanks for cutting me off there we go what that ma'am uh thank you all for the opportunity to speak here today on behalf of the seark obviously we're the building directly to the north of the proposed development if you'll please state your name and address right my name is Ken Barnes um I'm from the C Mark unit 801 uh I'm not here as an expert I'm not here as a lawyer but my background is on the screen if anybody cares to read it got Masters in management from Harvard I've got a jur doctor from University of Missouri Kansas City own a small boutique litigation firm um I also started a real estate company we've invested in a number of different real estate projects in a few States Costa Rica here in Florida I've done some Hotel projects as a part of that um including taking things from what we call having a flag to not having a flag and vice versa and I'm involved in a few of those things right now so just a general background on that a little bit about our building you know we were built in 1974 uh we have 105 units some of those original owners believe it or not are still uh in the building some of their families a number of families have taken over uh the units we have been a cell phone tower provider for 27 years and when we talk about cell phone tower provider we're not talking about our own cell phone usage of course we're talking about cell phone usage for all of the barrier islands uh and those cell phone towers are on top of our building now we have a roof height of 103 ft paret wall 106 and each story is only 8' 8 in we have a couple of of sort of major points we want to bring up and I think it they are really um important for a number of reasons but the first one is we see this and again as from a factual standpoint as the application itself fails because it doesn't meet the characteristics of the large resort District we'll get to that in a minute and then even if they had met those characteristics we think there are are a number of what would be discretionary criteria that would indicate that this is not something we want in our community so what I mean I've got this picture of a road if the decision is go straight or turn right you look at this road you can make the decision you want if you put some road signs up and you see okay one way I can turn right but I've got to do not enter well we know we can't go straight we have two wrong ways well you can't go on either of these roads you cannot take that because the law says you cannot we look at the the definitions of what a large resort district is if we just take a pause for a minute and really think about that the proposition they have in front of you is to take what they have just now conceded tonight is currently a resort and turn it into three separate hotels not a resort three separate hotels our codes if if they don't meet the definitions found in 35.1 this should fail immediately the definitions include full service integrated Resort development what did we hear Mr Young say just a few minutes ago I'm going to build you three separate hotels and on the North End I'm going to give you a full service hotel and on the south end I'm going to give you a limited service Hotel a limited service Hotel does not qualify in the large resort District it is not allowed in our community we can look at the the breakdown of their three uh separate projects that they want to combine into this one cup they got a JW Merit full service on the on the North End The Limited Service uh on the south end three separate properties it doesn't meet 35.1 it's the wrong way and since you cannot do that under 351 it's not an integrated full service Resort it should fail we go back to um a couple of other uh parts of the code I'll just point this out there was some discussion about the property down the the road there is some discussion in the codes about height height uh limitations you can see how tall the the uh current s is relative to buildings across the street uh if this fell under 35.8 they would not be able to build any taller than the Bell Grand across the street at least that's my my opinion we'll leave it to lawyers and judges and everybody else I guess to figure out if that's right um I want to move on though and talk about the second part and again cups are not mandatory these are discretionary decisions that if you meet the large resort District if you first meet it then you need to analyze a number of factors that's what I think everybody here has been arguing about we submit that they haven't met even the purpose and intent from 35.1 and their application should be rejected because they're building you as they said their words not mine we're going to build you three hotels one limited service and one full service not a full service integrated Resort this isn't a resort anymore but if we look at the more discretionary uh items if they had met the 35.1 definition we have a few few little it or few items here we want to address um the gulf and Bay views being maintained the decreased sunlight increased shadowing the interference with our telom the storm water system the negative traffic and then some of the wind uh discussions that we previously had if we look at 4.12 and I I mean I I here they're they're trying to argue that this means something that it doesn't say but 4.12a talks about no unreasonable or disproportionately negative impacts on the adjacent or nearby properties that's us we are an adjacent property on the North side it talks about maintenance of gulf and Bay views and Vistas those are three separate things at least from our read the gulf is one view that we have the bay is another view that we have and then the vistas which I take to mean sort of the the gulf uh to the Bay it goes on this is so important the maintenance of the water views that in this one section 4.12 it's mentioned not once but at least twice if we go on to 4.12 section 9 subsection B the language is quote maintains an open view of the Waterfront from neighboring properties we're going to show you here in a minute how that would be affected negatively would take that away from so many of our units we didn't do that with graphs we didn't do that with charts with mathematics from the back corner of a building we did it with pictures because we're the folks living in that building right now this is from unit 808 now unit 808 would be uh that would be obviously facing uh toward the current serata it would be down the building to the uh East um it would be in this case you can see and these aren't the best pictures and we're doing it through the laptop but you can see from that unit looking off to the southeast they have views of the bay what happens when you build the building that they're proposing and by the way this is conservative this is actually less tall less tall than the building that they want to build as a JW Maria as part of their three hotels that they're trying to pretend as a resort it blocks that view this is on the eighth floor you can see the same thing on the seventh floor it's even more pronounced this is unit 801 when I introduced myself told John from unit 801 my favorite thing to do go out on my balcony every morning have my cup of coffee I can see up and over the sarata when I look straight to the South and I can see over to the Bays When I Look to the East and I can see the Vistas in between I don't get that anymore this is not whatever you want to pretend with a graphic or a chart this is not an Open Water View this building that they propose would block the views of my bay it would block the views of the Vista and it would block the views the Open Water views of the gulf that's my unit from a few other perspectives unit 1110 this would be back uh also uh few higher up floors higher you can see just how open that view is to the bay and you can see what's taken away if they build this taller building you 1101 again this is one of the best views to that side of the building you can have it's our top floor what happens it's blocked and by the way all the things that they want to put on their rooftop aren't calculated into this picture okay that's going to be on top of this that's going to block The View even more 1101 to the South you can see the bay off on the left side of the screen you can see the gulf you can see the Vistas in between what happens nothing you can't see anything you're looking at a hotel that does not maintain our open views our Open Water views our views of the gulf and our views of the bay there's been some discussion and again I'll leave it to lawyers to hassle or argue that on whether or not we consider what the O Boca sand has butross the street they look right now down into the Gulf if they build this I don't have the graphic you can guess what would happen to their views want to talk the next thing was about sunlight we've been talking a little bit here people talking about shadowing there's all these graphs we've seen presented but let's let's really think about sunlight because that's one of the things if they had met the the definition of 351 that's one of the things they also have to prove is that they're not negatively impacting the adjacent properties our property sunlight here's what they put together here's where I presume they have the Sun and here's what we put together this is C Mark December 20th 2023 this is where the sunline is is at 10: a.m. now I want to be clear here there is nothing blocking the sun I watched the sunrise from my unit at 801 every single morning I will not ever be able to see that again but let's just talk about shading as the day goes on by 10:00 right now the C Mark has and again on one of the worst days December 20th all of the units all the way the bottom gets sunlight by 10:00 a.m. you can see sort of the angle here of the sunlight at 952 the shade at 952 and here are the actual 10: a.m. Shadow lines at the C Mark so if you look at the bottom you'd see the current shade line by 10 a.m. on December 20th everybody has sunlight if you look up the the sarata new main building at 115.5 would still have Shadow I don't know one two 3 four 5 six seven floors up and if you put the rooftop amenities on top it's going to block all the way through the 8 this is going to dramatically change the ability of our folks to enjoy their their condos it's going to affect our property values and as contemplated by the code these types of issues these negative impacts should be considered by this commission there it is side by side where the shade is now on the left hand side and then what it would look like if this is approved again this is at 10: a.m. um I have no shade issues on my on my condo at all right now but now you can see the difference here talk about Telecom um I mentioned that we have a couple of um cell phone towers and and I talked to a consultant this morning and asked him about the degradation of cell phone their presentation said it won't hurt our cell coverage at the C Mark and I I heard that and it it that's not the issue really the issue is the cell coverage for the entire Community that's the issue when you build a hotel that blocks that cell tower what happens is I understand was explain to me is that runs parallel to the ground so you're building a building is going to block it there's going to be degradation of of signal uh that is going to negatively impact not just our building but the other residents throughout the community now if another one gets built to the north it'll impact that well as well another thing that happens there and just this commission needs to know our residents some of which are living on fixed income any of which are living on fixed income rely on the revenue we get from that which isn't a ton of money but it is some money to help offset the costs of our HOA I guarantee you when there's two taller buildings a taller building to our South where those cell phone towers are going to go next it's going to negatively impact us from a financial standpoint as well as negatively impact the community as a whole with the cell towers you can see the sell tiwes there on our building um I don't think we did a graphic that would show them blocked uh here you can show we've got them at 109.3 FT we know more proposals 115.5 before the rooftop amenities we did do uh again we we're a bunch of residents trying to put this thing together so we drew some pictures on paper um they now today have come in and admitted that it's actually a 13-story building that we're saying 10 at the last meeting we did a little graphic here that shows how our building um come pairs you got the current sarata the proposed sarata and how that 127.5 is going to be much higher than the tops of our cell phone towers and one of the questions then we have is what effect will that have on EMS police fire residents vacationers most of us use our cell phones primarily for our communication storm water and there there have been a lot of talk about storm water and and God bless us it sounds to me like no one really knows what's going to happen with it the question was what's going to happen with his vault first answer was it won't leak over to the C Mark second answer was well it probably won't Le over to the C Mark and then there were some other variations of that there is a real big risk here now I'm not a Hydra hydrological engineer or anything like that we did pay particular attention last time we were here uh their discussion about 40 uh feet per day and the leeching and where the water goes can we really be sure that with all the new structure there and them putting their vault right at the corner near our pool that no water is going to come over I mean isn't that kind of what we thought when there was a horrible horrible tragedy on the other side of Florida when that building collapsed it was all based on water water denigrated the foundation of that building well let's take it a little bit differently this is a picture we took January 6 2023 this year this is water from a rainstorm this wasn't a very big rainstorm but the water already gathers around our pool deck so imagine the additional runoff Vault or noal that comes off of the JW Maria Hotel onto our property what impact will that have forget the foundation of the building for a minute what impact would that have on our pool because if our pool gets destroyed if it gets taken out because water's leeching over from from their proposal we're not able to rebuild we are grandfathered in by WEA built uh and if we don't have a pool that probably drops our land or our property values by 30% Center more one proposal move the storm trap put your money where your mouth is move your storm trap move all that stuff to the center of this development so that you're the one taking the risk with your pool not taking the risk with ours want to touch on traffic I will be very brief with that I think I think everybody here who's been in St Pete very long knows traffic can be a real issue I will just point out that you got the trade runs cut ends right to um our North you got the sadas already there to our South we have two entrances the more we compress that into that one area the more dangerous than the more we have queuing it would seem uh right around our building that kind of also goes into section 4.1 which discusses um nuisances and this is part of part of the guidance I I was bringing up certain uses are conditional rather than uses by right that's important what they're asking for here is not a matter of right it's conditional if they had met the definitions from 351 and they haven't um but one of the things supposed to create or supposed to consider are nuisances and their drawings as commissioner pointed out have their cars queuing up as close to our property as they can be so all of those cars all of those fumes all of those noises all of those horns all of those engines are going to be directly adjacent to our property causing a nuisance which is one of the reasons this commission should reject their application wind that was a wait I Mike Drew this one up so I got to give him credit uh another one of our lowo drawings but you can see the cars then would be queued up very close to our building while on that property why not find a better design that gets them away from us we go to wind um we hear this letter has been issued that and the wind probably won't have a negative impact on our enjoyment well why not do a full wind study I mean I'm again I'm not a wind engineer of any sort but the wind tunnel effect is a real thing we've all felt it you don't have to be an engineer to feel a wind tunnel we actually have one that feels like it goes through our building where we have the turnaround Lanes underneath our building and we have this little graphic prepared you as wind goes through buildings that are taller it can create a a faster Pace as it goes around them and cause destruction on the other side and even minor windstorms have had problems the this one was um 5919 I think the the wind that day or the day before was like 17 M an hour but the wind came through just wrong and caused damage to cars that are right up against the property line with the current sarata a number of insurance claims were were made this one something blew off of a deck or something and and crashed the back window of their car so wind is a very big consideration for us so you I guess if we look at this we don't believe that they met the purpose and intent of the large resort District because they're not they're not promising our community large resort they're promising our community they're going to build three separate hotels and at least one of those is going to be a limited service and the code itself says there has to be a full service integrated Resort or we're going to be making this application but beyond that even if they had at that we believe that these different factors these factors you consider and determine whether or not uh from a matter of discretion they have met their burden and they all wave in favor of denying this thing our residents particularly the residents at the C Mark are going to be so negatively affected by this uh that it's going to completely change uh our lives and our enjoyment of our properties and our property values um this would create precedent I'll just point that out you get 75 at s SRA you can believe we're going to see an application for 75 at other properties this is a situation where it's the wrong way street they're trying to they're trying to do something three hotels in a large resort District they're not they're not following what we want in our large resort districts I we sent a letter to the commission uh calling ourselves the most affected party I think it's hard not to see that like see that in real life if you stand at our building and you look out at what we have now and you just contemplate this building which by the way again is conservative because it doesn't take into account the height of the rooftop amenities that they want to build um I thank you guys for your time I'd be happy to answer any questions and we uh ask you we beg you to deny this cup thank you thank you no if we can please have order I appreciate it um mayor if I may a motion was never made to continue the meeting after 10 p.m. generally we make a motion to to continue the meeting after 10 p.m. is our cut off time General uh we can certainly have a motion I we had it on the schedule till 11: um but I'll entertain a motion and then a few questions for Mr Barnes shall we say 12 I got I got before we do that I got a question for City attorney do if the schedule says till 11 do we need to make the motion now I mean it's noticed till 11 but I mean if you want to be safe you can go ahead and make the motion to move it I mean you're going to be here past 11: so just curious of the procedure but I don't think procedurally because your I your notice was till 11: but you're going to go past 11: you want let's wait until uh 10:50 is 1055 see where we are and then we have maybe have a better idea of when we need to continue till okay um any questions for um for Mr Barnes um can I ask one question sure because you mentioned the Telecommunications and you said you spoke with someone um have you had any official report or evaluation to State whether the city overall is affected as well um because you said you said the C Mark wouldn't be affected but the there's a potential of the city being affected let let me be let me be clear on that the C Mark might be affected my point would be we wouldn't be the only ones affected if there's a if there's a degradation of cell um service then it would affect everybody in the city I don't know if that's going to be equally or differently and to your bigger question I think which is do we have a report no we have not um spent the money for that report our view would be they ought to be showing us the applicant that it will not affect since it's their burden prove that they've met all of these and and assured the city that they're not going to be negatively impacting the citizens of the of the city Mr bartens we we asked the applicant about what Communications you might have had how would you characterize that what was communication like yeah um I've had personally no Communications with the applicant we have had as I I know of a meeting that he referenced with two of the members of our board who do not speak for our board but had a meeting with him that would be Tim yarell and Mike Gordon um the report back was it was fairly cordial it was an initial meeting but we had a lot of work to do then there was a subsequent Zoom meeting and um I was able to view the zoom meeting but I wasn't participating in the zoom meeting and the zoom meeting went much like Mr Young's testimony tonight he considered most of the ideas crazy he became somewhat irate and he talked down to our residents beyond that there's not been really substantive communication of which I am aware okay thank you any further questions thank you sir thank you Ed stapor for Brightwater Estates feel please state your name and address for the record it's uh 6 55th Avenue excuse me Ed before you get started just because we have 30 minutes for the other individuals who are requesting longer than three minutes just want to see about how long you think you'll need four hours no no seriously you know 10 minutes thank you I appreciate it thank you yep you guys want to stand up uh Melody deie there we go and plus a lot more if you can see this on screen that work all right good evening thank you I'm just going to get right into it so you know what's interesting is we have a great opportunity for economic development yet you have such an opposition to a plan and I guess the question is why is that the case um in my development 102 homes we have 94% of the people who are opposed to this and you got to ask your simple question why why would people be opposed to something that's supposed to be good there are three reasons I'm going to go through these three reasons with you here today the first one and we agree um and it was mentioned earlier today at the start of today's session the legal what you need to do in terms of all the code fil DC we agree with that however our voices have not been heard now I was pleasantly happy to hear Mr uh Dickman at the beginning saying that the residents participation is important part of this we don't believe we've been part of the of this whole process even though we've been very um vocal about it for example this is the timeline um and what's highlighted are where we as residents have an opportunity to participate and talk or provide and if you go through these and let's talk about the first session on April 13th and 20th and particularly on the 20th here's why we've been ignored so April 24th we get a letter to sent to the city says there are no Comon cards from the community session then two and a half months later two and a half months later the city gets another letter saying oh sorry uh here you go and not only were there comments and assign sheet there were just photoc copies no no assessment no commentary no feedback nothing and it took two two and a half months now no one's questioned why did it take two and a half months why was the first letter sent out saying it was wrong how did that happen no accountability that's wrong we're ignored that's wrong second proof now this comes a screenshot comes from the planning board meeting last November and if you look at the timestamp and this is what was said you know what we value what you said say but we're talking about the legal standard for competence substantial evidence in essence whatever we have to say as residents is emotional doesn't matter it's meaningless that was the message I was delivered and we heard that again today that's the second reason why we've been ignored and the third is we sent and the and as you can see from the residents that are here today and you see from the whole start of this process residents have been very active attending sending emails calling talking today's the first time I hear the city commission actually bring up the resident's point of view on a number of occasions thank you for that we haven't heard it before and here's the interesting thing is a week in advance of the planning board meeting on November 6 185 Pages went to the Sony Department that Amber sent out to all the commissioner or the planning board members guess what no one read it and in fact Mr Dickman remembers this because there was a discussion when someone said gez I just got this today and and and then the discussion was well you know if president's only sent a day before we can't stop the process no the fact of the matter this is factual it was sent a week in advance and the city clerk received numerous emails in April and May and in October also a lot of comments no one's read them so those are three facts that we've been ignored conclusion as you go through the comprehensive plan I think is pretty clear and against guess what we need to follow the plan is that what we understand and if you look at the words that they use and this is the input right at the beginning of the comprehensive plan strong desire to protect a quiet character blah blah blah improve safety resident quality residential Community where residents and visitors so our input is in a comprehensive plan but not only is it in there if you look at the goals and the policies the goals and policies ensure that the residential character not the hotel character not the sarata character the resident character of the city is maintained and protected by residents and visitors alike so it's very clear the comprehensive plan supports a very active participation of residents which has not been shown thus far on top of that Florida Statutes are also very clear about the due process and having um residents have an active voice that is heard has waited and not just waited because we're just going through the process to make you feel good weighted so that we are actually listened to traffic study I brought this up in December and I'm going to say a few things and I'm going to talk about the assumptions because I'm not a traffic expert but I'm an expert in life I'm an expert in common sense I'm an expert in a lot of things and I know data but guess what this is the reality that we're going to be living with this was two weeks ago on a Saturday at 5:30 and look at a queue to turn left onto the penelas Bayway this was from penelo's Bayway all the way to to almost the undertoe now if you look closely the other side of the road there's no cars in the second lane they're all waiting to queue now is that going to be our reality that we're going to want I don't think so now the traffic folks here today the experts and by the way experts do you remember the financial crisis 2007 December 2008 experts they predicted that did they no they didn't do you think experts are always right don't we have a voice and these are facts fact-based not making it up these are the numbers from appendix C and they showed us here today that the growth rate was down 2.34% and that's sad for us oh my God but why is Gulf Winds in there when it's just a small little road why do it get equal waiting to the Gulf Boulevard North and South I don't understand that I couldn't find anything in the data that they provided 2020 was an anomaly it should be excluded it should not be included in the calculations and as far as I understand no negative growth rates are allowed in fact it's in the code that not our code but in penelas County you cannot have that so and I'm just asking is that true if it is when they say 2% exponential and I have a different definition of exponential 2% to me is not exponential but is that true so it's not like they're being nice to us to say well you went down so we're going to give you some extra point no no no they're not being nice to us but here's the interesting thing and you could ask yourselves and that's the folks behind me I did a little survey and asked a very simple question 90% of people said the traffic is getting worse now I know what they're going to say oh my God you guys are emotional that's anotal all that I get that but then how do you reconcile what we live and as experts who live here to what their data that just showed us well I went through their data and appendix e and it's all there in appendix e and say well why don't we go down 9 years instead of the 5 years because you take out Co and if you take out G Winds Drive is that I mean come on you got to be joking using gulfwinds Drive its volume is minuscule and to be using it with equal waiting to Gulf Boulevard is I don't know there must be a reason but I don't know what that reason is but I couldn't find in anything I've been researching but when you look at their data from the fdot from 2012 to 2021 excluding covid year that's not decreasing to me that graph in fact it's increasing and that correlates to what the people think so from a traffic standpoint and from penel County they do talk about the truth and data in terms of what is the accurate representation so you could make a better informed decision now I don't know if I'm right or not because I'm not an expert but I know data and I'm looking at data and how you use data could tell tell you the story you got to be complete about it trade wins we talked about trade wins on page 40 of the agenda packet it says the applicant had formerly considered proposed trade WIS and now there's just a little discussion about it but I still don't understand it's like my house is burning I'm on this side I I can't walk over and put it out where's the common sense that data is available and that data whether you like it or not oh sorry what I was going to say here despite these woses have they showed you this data traffic with their own data and she was very clear their traffic expert Am Pm there you go that's their chart that says the traffic doubles why haven't they showed you this chart you have to find it they want you to find it they don't want to show it to you why is that on top of that when you add into trade wins if you remember the little green bar she said 258 cars right at the end for Gul Boulevard right there if you look at the trade wi's data 299 384 we're past capacity what happens when the other developments start growing how how are we going to be able to handle that and so to me it's irresponsible for the city and for the and I know it's not their their deal it's trade wins but you need to look at them together because it's properties that are so close to each other you've got also the fact that they're they're evaluating the same road system how can they not be and they're so intertwined you got to look at them at least at the city and that's the question and someone of you asked that question earlier today and the last thing I'm going to talk about and there are some good points about clear water but I want to bring up that with clear water we're not going to be at the same magnitude it's all relative we're a small little town 9,000 odd people who live here but if the goal is something to get more people that's a dangerous cycle and if you're going to try to pack people in because you got to maximize density and read the article that the link is there and you could uh that's eight years ago not only that eight years ago people are talking about in Trip Advisor about uh about uh um oh okay my time's up but here's the last two slides basically when we're talking about Clear Water the issue you got to be worry about is that the residential character because this is the domino effect of everyone else that's going to come up on top of that that's what I was referring to the the study that they showed my last SL is this this is where we are folks this is it SRA believes they met everything everything's beautiful they got all these experts everyone's happy let's go residents are saying well and we just heard Mr Barnes yeah I'm not sure I think there are some concerns that are very valid and fact-based and in fact the comp plan and the Florida statue support what we say so I'm going to leave you with this thought and I'm going to remind you what uh the s team said earlier the commission has a legal obligation this is at six o'clock this evening to follow the current comp plan and Land Development we agree the applicant must unequivocally demonstrate they've met all conditions all the unequivocally demonstrate ated now if you were here on December 5th you here today I have a hard time believing theyve unequivocally demonstrated that they've delivered on all these conditions that's the case it's clear that they have not met these conditions you must deny you must defer you must delay you must not approve thank you thank you [Applause] sir all right I am only going to ask one more time that you please do not Applause we're trying to get through everybody to evening please Jane grah all right jny before we I think now might be appropriate time for a motion to extend yes um and what how much do you want to say I'd move to extend to 1:00 am. I'll second city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner res Nikki yes vice mayor lorensen yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner filtz yes mayor patrill yes motion carries mayor have you decided how much time you want to Grant or the commission how much time you want to Grant uh Miss Graham representing she's got two experts I want to also remind the commission that they're not a party intervenor I think the decision we made earlier was to give each of the experts 10 minutes providing that they have four people that will see their time to them yes do leave Miss Graham 10 minutes too well it's 10 per expert well this says 30 minutes yeah 30 total I thought 10 gram 10 go here 10 work we don't need that much that's only three yeah it's three people 10 20 30 yeah 30 minutes yeah 10 for expert sorry so that's 20 minutes 30 30 so 10 for the attorney and 30 minutes total however you want they want to split it up is what I would say and just going on that point I mean on the sheet we have here everyone else is three minutes time requested we don't know about the cards that was were submitted I would say that's it as far as more than three minutes can C well we we cut off the time for submitting new cards anyway at 4 pm but so are there more people who are speaking there are more people but no one else can sign up I understand but the people speak outside of the sheet I I don't know if this is what we had at noon okay but we have a whole bunch more cards on top of these are they requesting 30 minutes no no no they're all three minutes all three minutes okay yeah and my other question before we get started can we take a recess between now and 1:00 a.m. yes okay um maybe we can get through maybe around 11:30 okay can can I ask a question is it possible that you can speed this up too because out of due respect I mean we didn't determine I mean I know we kind of said 10 and 10 I mean breaks and everything you know kind of try to talk as fast as I think they did as well absolutely commissioner yes um we did see a lot of the I mean at least I know I did I don't know if it's the same thing so that's why I say this and and for the audience because the presentation we just watched I had already watched it so um that's why I asked just due respect you absolutely and one thing I would say is oh my God you can you reset my time because I haven't even started talking it just started going Janie will start okay please in the audience just we need to be able to hear them and so again respectfully I will ask that you be quiet and let us hear from the people at the podium thank you and actually one thing I would say is I'm going to go in the beginning about 5 minutes I'd like the experts to speak and then come back for another five minutes sure good evening my name is Jane Graham attorney and founder of sunshine city law 737 Main Street Safety Harbor I represent protect St Pete Beach advocacy group a nonprofit dedicating dedicated to ensuring that development projects in St Pete Beach beautify the community for the mutual benefit of residents and visitors alike without increasing traffic congestion demands on infrastructure or threatening natural resources pspb is composed of members who have a substantial interest over and above that of the general community and membership is limited to residents of St Pete Beach who live in close vicinity to Gulf Boulevard between 60th and 52nd Avenues who are directly impacted by the potential transformation of the beauty hotelscape and infrastructure on Gulf Boulevard tonight you will be hearing from land use expert Charles gotier who is a aicp fellow with over 46 years of experience and traffic engineer Drew roor PE with over 28 years of experience as you know there is ongoing litigation regarding the validity of the appointment process but I want to make it clear that here we are here tonight to only address the merits of the serata application this is a critical decision which will shape the future of the character scale and neighborhood and compatibility within the city's large Resort district and your decision tonight on whether to Grant a conditional use permit is under Section 4.1 which has already been mentioned that these are conditional rather than uses by right and they may have significant adverse effects on the environment and character and the review is necessary to look at the impacts on the surrounding area and neighborhood I want you to know that the applicant's burden to show with competent substantial evidence that they have complied with the city code and comprehensive plan is strict and you have heard a lot about the developers rights but know that courts also recognize those who own property and live in a residential area have a legitimate and protectable interest in the preservation of the character of their neighborhood which may not be infringed by the unreasonable or arbitrary Act of the government and zoning ordinances are enacted to protect citizens from losing their economic Investments or comfort and enjoyment of their homes by unreasonable and arbitrary acts this is lvv city of North Miami Beach you are under no requirement tonight to approve this project even if it falls within the quantitative allowances of the code this Project's density is at the outer limits of what the comprehensive plan allows and the second district court of appeal explains that the comprehensive plan limits are a future ceiling and does not give the developer cart blanch to approach that that ceiling immediately or on their own private timeline here the maximum density which you'll see is 75 units per buildable acre but that's exactly what they're asking for the impervious surface area and height are also at the outer limits in considering this request also please take a special look at the location of this large resort District itself the applicant must support their criteria under sections 4.4 and 412 with competent substantial evidence and has failed to do so a number of you have had really excellent questions tonight pointing out flaws and omissions in the in the plan and the application and we'll and we'll talk about that more and you'll hear from the experts with that I'd like to introduce Mr gotier and reserve the rest of my time to add to the rest of my 10 minutes thank you very much if you please state your name yes my name is Charles go thank you sir uh good evening uh Mr Mayor members of the commission I'm much better at 11: in the morning than 11 at night I'll do my best to move very quickly um my name is Charles gotier I'm a land use planner I was engaged with uh protect St Pete Beach advocacy group to prepare an independent analysis uh and that's what I've done I did submit copies to you I'd like to also provide a hard copy to you this evening and ask Miss Graham to distribute those I am familiar with the sarata development request having studied the application the comp plan the Land Development code related materials I have long-term knowledge of your community my planning experience I have 46 years of experience has taught me balanced approaches to development which respect and accommodate established Community interests are are essential that is the way to move forward uh this community has been had conflict over Redevelopment for 15 or 20 years now and regrettably I see it continuing now so you my recommendation is this is not an application suitable for approval it maximizes development uh to the uh top extent it triggers issues uh it's just not ready for approval um you've heard a lot of detailed information um I'm going to talk from a higher plane uh and I also want to endorse the compatibility comments we heard heard from the C Mark Representatives I think representative I think that was right on Mark the big picture here is that development of the site is being maximized to where it conflicts with the character of St Pete Beach and protection of St Pete Beach's character is required by the comprehensive plan and secondly there are unreasonable compatibility impacts adverse impacts on residential youth es in particular C Mark right next door uh there is a third issue and that third issue is this is a site highly vulnerable to uh to uh damage in a tropical storm or storm surge event and your comprehensive plan calls upon you to limit development in vulnerable areas um I should share my qualifications very quickly um I have 46 years of experience I've been a certified planner since 1988 I'm a fellow in the American Institute of certified planners I served as a chief planner for Kalo County a zoning administrator for Lee County uh a senior administrator at the Department of Community Affairs for 17 years I've worked for two major consulting firms for the last 10 years I've worked on my own I work independently and have been uh fortunate or honored to have a whole series of local government clients uh industrial clients home builders uh private individuals and public interest groups so have sort of a diverse portfolio most of it for by force South um let me talk for a minute about challenges of Redevelopment in that in Europe large resort District Redevelopment is very important that's a very important goal it's a question of how much and is there too much uh Redevelopment occurring in The serata Proposal uh and there are significant s of geographic challenges and comprehensive plan challenges large resort is an intense land use category it allows 75 Transit units per acre it allows Heights of 100 16 ft imp proprius surface can be 85% of a development site that's a heavy development footprint in a beachfront location uh takeen to its extreme it's a formula for tightly pack development tall buildings shoulder toosh shoulder and this is what I see in the sarata proposal a compressed massing of development that's out of character with uh St pet Beach a second Big Challenge most of the large resort uh is along the stretch of Golf Boulevard where golf is the only north south roadway there's no alternative so impacts in terms of uh access and and additional uh traffic what what affects everyone in the community um it'd be better if there were a traffic light it'd be better if there are a intersection but there's not uh thirdly large resort includes residential uses in this case immediate need next door adjacent and uh C Mark I mean there's certainly residential uses across the street uh several hundred of them that I identified in my report as being impacted but I think it's C Mark it's C Mark that has the unreasonable adverse impacts and there's a Litany of problems you know one problem is uh loss of water view they are relegated to a narrow spectrum of view as opposed to more Open Water view there's a loss of privacy they will have a 10-story hotel very close to them looking straight at them uh in order to achieve that narrow water view well the the north hotel is sort of shimmy to the South and because of that well the access to that hotel the roadway runs along that North property line and so seark is exposed to cars noise uh odor or fumes um so it's it's a very uh heavy impact in my opinion and not appropriate uh a fourth challenge is what I mentioned earlier all of this is in the coast High Hazard area with the exception of a few high points Coastal High Hazard means that the area is subject to saltwater inundation or even surge in a tropical storm and it's only got to get worse sea level is rising it could be a foot a foot and a half higher and by 2050 we're seeing we're in the era of uh more frequent intense hurricanes and Rapid intensification so those those are important issues uh they they tell me the level of uh development in uh sarata is problematic looking at the site plan well it is the 10 story building right next to seark that's a big building uh if you look at the dimensions it's about 1.9 Acres of footprint that's a very significant building the South End 8 stories you have the traditional serata in the middle Park parking garage would face galf Boulevard on uh on the North and there'd be a ninstory parking garage that would serve uh what is anticipated to be a Hampton in that's very startling to me they Standalone nin over each parking garage uh in a sense in a sense you know the front and the Aesthetics are very important that's the front door to this development and instead of a attractive aesthetically pleasing front door those parking garages turn their back on the community so again it's like too much development trying to pack it together and of course there's issues um um as I mentioned I mean sarata is maximizing their Transit units uh they're they're adding somewhat to their other square footage for restaurants retail and eating space uh there's enough other square footage to be equivalent to your public supermarket down G Boulevard um it's evident in the hotel size and the planes of the buildings um so the footprint is just very large very intense you're going to have a view of several large buildings close together and that's different for your community the your plan I mentioned has a series of policies are in my report that call for protection and Community character this is very different than your existing Community character you have a traditional beachfront residential Community with low and midrise hotels as well as a a scattering a separ a separated scattering of taller buildings not compressed together and concentrated in my report I said this is a pathway to become Panama City Beach or Clearwater Beach and I believe that's true and I don't ultimately see the comprehensive plan as a barrier you establish a precedent here you can't say no to maximizing if that's what trade win seeks you know in a couple months or if people seek to change a comprehensive plan so this is a major precedent it's just too much development on a single site I timesed up I this concludes thank you thank you sir any questions for Mr G you okay thank you sir good evening Drew roor with Alex roor engineering um I'm I'm a Florida licensed professional engineer I've been evaluating traffic impacts associated with development in Florida for over 28 years I work for developers the state of Florida municipalities citizens groups local agencies both providing the traffic impact analysis as well as reviewing them I've also served as a board member on the Tampa Bay chapter of The Institute of Transportation Engineers I've also served as a board member on the Tallahassee Economic Development Council I also serve as an Adjunct professor at the FAMU FSU College of Engineering where I teach transportation engineering which includes traffic impact analyses I'm also for forunate uh currently to be providing services to the Florida Department of Transportation Research Center uh where we're evaluating specific High generating land uses for trip generation as well as some other aspects of traffic impacts so we have reviewed the traffic study that was prepared um for the subject proposed development and flaws in the traffic analysis show that the applicant has failed to support the following criteria with competent and substantial evidence specifically sections 4.12 2 and 4.4 of your city's criteria um uh you know this is past my bedtime too so I'm going to try my best to explain very my my analysis is going to be very detailed I'm going to try to simplify it and be as quick as possible for you all for us all um the first and I'm just going to run through these I apologize um in advance the FSU TM TMS the pums model the TBR RPM model that was used for distribution that was talked about uh it was used for both the weekday and the weekend or Saturday analysis uh the distribution percentages were identical in both of those analyses however the model itself is a peak season weekday average daily traffic model um so all of those terms are are important the purpose of analyzing the weekend versus the weekday is presumably because the traffic patterns are different on the weekend particularly in this case so because the model is a peak season weekday average daily traffic model it should not be used for the weekend uh additionally for both the weekend and the weekday analysis the daily distribution percentages from the fsms model were used for the peak hour periods so the analysis rightly so evaluates the peak hours but the distribution percentages are a daily distributions those are different uh so for the same you know AM and PM both of them use the same percentages as well um the TBR RPM was updated recently to include a time and day modules those could be used um but they they were not in this case um also traffic counts were already taken at at many of these of the driveways so and it has in this case you have an existing site that is the same land use and the same location you don't need to use the model to come up with your distribution you and they already have the counts they can use the counts from the existing site to know what percent go north south now extended past that you would have to do an O study which is a little more complicated but it's not that complicated so there's ways to do it without using the model um the actual distribution percentages from the existing site differ significantly from the estimated distribution percentages from the model which is kind of the point uh so the existing distribution percentages de demonstrated in the study showed um the existing hotel in the PM PE C 54% of the hotel traffic travel to and from the South but the estimate in the analysis is 30% to and from the south kind of to your point you were talking about a little bit different numbers but you were on the right track um the existing traffic is even more exaggerated with 61% to the South uh compared to 30% used in the analysis so it's significant because the total traffic volumes which are the sum of the background and the and the growth and the project traffic will be inaccurate and therefore the Capacity Analysis that was provided is also inaccurate finally the vested trips and this is finally on this one comment one issue the vested trips C uh using calculations from the myamar and Corey Landings developments also use the fs utmf model so same issue there uh the second big comment is the peak hours were not analyzed in the in analysis uh the traffic impact analysis study typically traffic impact analyses study the peak hours because it's the worst case scenario so typical PM peak hours for most areas is four to some one hour between 4: and 6:00 p.m. uh that's primarily due to work to home trips the trip for that trip purpose um that's the time period that was analyzed in this study it's the standard way to do it for most studies however this area is on the beach and land uses are more recreational and and vacation related therefore this area's peak hour occurs earlier in the day somewhere between 1: and 3:00 p.m. uh this is also evidenced by the fdot count station 15547 which is on Gulf Boulevard South of this location study um recommend the study revised uh be revised to include the actual peak hour additionally it trip generation that was use estimate trips uh from these sites also are likely an accurate because they also use the peak hour of the adjacent Street which is typically the same issue 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. which is not the case at this in this site um third and probably most important most critical I guess is the project driveway volumes that were used are incorrect the the existing site traffic was discounted from the analysis since it's assume that this traffic is vested and the impacts are only to be evaluated for traffic above and beyond the existing vest traffic however that doesn't mean that the actual I'm assuming that they're counting them as vested is why they discounted it I'm not sure exactly why they discounted it however it doesn't mean the actual traffic volumes utiliz utilizing the driveways the turn Lanes into and out of the site would be reduced by any existing traffic volumes if you look at page you look at their trip generation estimate on their page six they do the calculation for the trip generation of the three hotels which include a 226 room hotel 290 room and 130 room then they discount the 382 room existing site but that site isn't going away completely so uh they should use what's going to be left over which is the in the PMP C is 295 they did calculate the trip generation correctly they just discounted incorrectly and that's what they assigned to the driveways so the volumes that they're using at their driveways are just just not correct um I have some additional comments about uh capacity calculations it's in my u in this report in this letter which I think we're going to provide you H hard copies of I think you already have them anyway I won't get into those that gets into the very technical uh stuff but that's my comments any questions for Mr work so I know at the previous meetings we've had discussions about traffic patterns being different I know every town likes to think we're different but I think with our unique situation being on island two Bridges that's right um you know we have if I remember remember the numbers correctly somewhere around 50,000 cars a day we have 8,700 residents there there's not right 8,000 of us going out four times a day five times a day um and so how would how would you take that into consideration our unique situation if you were to do a traffic analysis for a project like this the basic steps that they followed were correct so you the first step is always trip generation they did the trip generation calculation correct they discounted some stuff wrong so that those numbers are off they should evaluate the uh the the actual peak hour on Gulf Boulevard which is it it really doesn't have much of a peak typical peaks in the morning Spike and then a little one in the midday and then a big one in the evening Gulf Boulevard is kind of like grows and this sort of comes down but the peak the actual Peak is a little earlier than what the normal is so you got to look at the peak hour I mean the point is is look at the worst case scenario and if you're not doing that you're you're not truly providing you all U what the actual condition is going to be so that's that's important I know a lot of these comments are you know very technical but when it comes to traffic engineering the devil's in the details and so the net result which is you know they're saying there's no capacity issue that actually may be correct but you don't know that from the analysis that was done you have to do the analysis correctly little changes in traffic engineering can change the net result answer to you all so um they're also using generalized capacity numbers which are correct for a planning level study but I think what you all have experienced just driving here and you know what's actually out there all day long and it was actually brought up by the applicant as well like the the mult multiple crosswalks mid block Crossings on Gul Boulevard that changes the capacity of the road uh but the generalized capacities that are using they don't consider that I mean they don't know that they're there because it's a high level Planning number it says a four-lane you know or with a two-way left turn lane uh is the same as it is anywhere uh and that's just not the case in this case because you have narrower Lanes you have multi multiple midblock Crossings all those things when you get a d detailed analysis those capacity numbers will go down and it's possible I'm not saying it is but it's possible that the level of services exceeded exceeds D um like the other studies may be showing so it's important to get the details right that's my short answer to you did you complete an analysis yourself unfortunately no um um I I do I do I do this type of work for Citizens groups um and most of the time they don't have big budgets uh so we we we do it um uh it's not propono I do get paid but it's there's not a large budget to be able to redo an entire analysis for them so I just review the studies that have have been submitted to you all to make sure they're technically accurate so so the conclusions drawn from their traffic study you're saying may or may not be correct that is correct okay yeah what I'm telling you is the the the study that they propose and the conclusions that they're drawing are drawn from inaccurate analysis so that you don't know is the answer um you can't make the determination unless you do the study right any further questions thank you sir all right Mr Graham if if you would like to conclude if you would mind restating a name for the record yes thank you uh again my name is Jane Graham as Mr gotier testified there are numerous inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan as well as issues with massing and scale and incompatibility as Mr roor testified he analyzed the traffic study and found significant flaws which meant that it's not supported by competent substantial evidence so I want to go through what competent substantial evidence actually means just to kind of back up because you are going to hear from a number of other people in the community now and then I'm going to quickly go through some of the standards of review and and highlight some information so competent evidence must be credible and based on facts and can't be bare allegations and a generalized statement or a flawed statement even if it's from an expert is not competent substantial evidence and you must have your decision supported by this competent substantial evidence now you might hear The credibility of lay person testimony dismissed as not competent substantial evidence but I want you to know that it is in as much as when the public is presenting actual and specific facts relevant to the Quasi judicial decision actually your um City attorney Mr Dickman spoke about this as well and he he he did say that well and so on top of that if the testimonies on subjective matters that do not require expertise such as the impact on the area's natural beauty or as Mr Barnes had those images of their view that is also could be competent substantial evidence relevant to the legal inquiry going through Section 4.4 standard ERS of review so A1 is about whether the conditional use is consistent with goals objectives of the comprehensive plan um you already have too many to name but one I'd like to really point out to you is future land use map policy 2.1.3 which says the city can shall continue to administer Land Development regulations in a manner aimed at preserving the access to and view of the beach and other recreational facilities for all residents of and visitors to this community and so this is especially relevant because you have so muchat been Boxed In by saying oh you know the views it only applies to the section of 4.12 but 4.4 says you need to follow the comprehensive plan and here it's a much more expansive look at that where it's views not just for residents but also visitors a picture that I'd like to show you is an example oh it's kind of late and I'm a clle um so this is a panoramic view that's taken right now and as you can see there is you know there are open areas this is the rendering of what it looks like and as you see there are not open areas this is just complete almost wall of buildings that you see from a view of the beach a number of you had good questions about hey where is the the full image of the frontal architectural renderings and where is the back and you haven't been provided that and the best you can do is something like this and and looking to actually put that in context so please take that into account um and if they haven't provided the competent substantial evidence well they haven't met the burden to show that they've they've met this now another item under 4.4 that I'd like to mention is whether the application will preserve any city state or federally designated historic Scenic archaeological or cultural resources your staff report says that this doesn't apply but in 2011 Governor Christ declared St Pete Beach as the sunset capital of Florida so you have a Scenic and cultural resource right here so the discussion of views is not to be taken lightly it's not just a sunset anywhere it's actually a sunset in the sunset capital of Florida so please take that into account in looking at whether this is actually having an impact there are other sections which um speak to the transportation system under three and and 2D which Mr RoR cited and we we urged you to look at that I see I'm out of time um if I may one last one last thing uh we do renew our our objections that we had stated back in January 10th relating to um both the lack of the the issues with the appointed commission but on top of that the fact that there is new data and information that should have been subject to the same state stages of review as the initial application um including updated renderings the WIS consultation letter Bank credit letter and applicants response to criteria I only mention this now because you know the renderings have come up a number of times tonight and it's really something that you should consider and I know that you had talked about well actually the the developers attorney had said well you know if you tell us tonight what you like we'll put it together but it's not your role to design their project there's supposed to come to you with the image and you make your decision about character and and um compatibility and all of that so thank you very much for indulging me over time I really appreciate it and we are available for questions if needed thank you any questions from Miss gr thank you so much let's take an8 minute recess I'm sorry point of order um cross Examination for Witnesses is that something so before people leave excuse me hold on we have not adjourned yet if you can please take your seats as I stated earlier I don't they haven't been deemed an intervener party sorry I meant our ability to cross-examine witnesses that are in opposition um we do want to cross-examine and we just didn't know if you wanted to do that now or wait till the very end of the uh Community response and then do it all at once I'm I'm just indicating that um if they're not party I'm looking at sorry you have requested that all the audience comments go first we're fine with that as long as no one leaves so that we can cross-examine potential Witnesses I I mean okay particularly experts and if if you want to cross-examine them but I mean keep in mind that typically under the Florida statute that I reference at the beginning of of this when we're talking about quasa judicial proceedings that the city also adopted um you know the city is not con we're not reviewing them as uh party interveners and they will not be it's the statute says it's not to be subjected to cross-examination but if you want to cross-examine them and the commission wants to allow that cross-examination you know um in addition to that the decision-making body shall assign a weight and credibility to such testimony as it deems appropriate that's the testimony that you just heard if I may respond uh Mr my name is Jessica Eiserman I'm an attorney with Stern Weaver Miller um the applicant always has the right to cross-examine uh members of the public and experts in opposition uh we respect and appreciate that they do not have party status that means they do not have the right to cross-examine however the applicant and the city do have the right to cross exam in every person that comes before them so we only have very few questions maybe two minutes three minutes worth of cross-examination of Mr goder and when you feel that time is appropriate we would like to take that opportunity to do so yeah it's not my decision I mean you all for you know in in the interest of fairness if you want to allow them to cross-examine them I don't I'm just reading directly from the statute but if you have I haven't heard you you just said in your opinion do you have a case on that the Jennings case and the carolon case which have been cited extensively both of those give the parties the right to cross-examine we the applicant and the city are both parties okay per that case law all right so I'm just looking at Florida statute 2860 one15 yes it's not it's not a right provided by statutes right provided by Florida law and the US Constitution due process clause via 14th Amendment all right at your own Peril all right I I deferred Mr Mayor when you would like us to do so well it's not my decision it's the commission's decisions and we're going to rely on our legal council to advise us I mean if they desire to cross-examine them those two those two individuals that's fine um if that's what the commission wants I'm just telling you that I don't want I mean again I'm going to repeat it again the city does not have any criteria to establish who is a party intervenor or an affected party or a third party so I just want to make sure that that's clear that we're not were by the fact that you would let them be cross-examined that by virtue of that you're not giving them party status we agree with that okay if they're in agreement with it I if we're going to do this and we're all in agreement I would rather you do it now also out of respect of him he did say a little while ago that he was tired so I don't think he's going to want to wait another hour two hours mayor if I'm if I may how how many individuals would you be looking to uh were you just looking to ask Mr goder a handful of questions and that's it this will literally be 2 to three minutes do you want to ask you questions and he can step up and answer them yep that's exactly what we are looking to do thank you so if you want to ask you two or three questions and then he can come up and answer them okay so I I have a series of questions so it may be better for him to come answer and then I can ask and he can answer and I can ask and he can answer they're they're very they're yes or no questions so for example I would like to ask him if he is a transportation engineer I would like to ask him if he is a civil engineer I would like to ask him if he is an environmental engineer or scientist okay okay Mr Mr go would you like to answer those questions yeah I think you just asked those questions so he can come up I have a few more but those are the types of questions I intend to ask so you've asked those questions if you want to step aside let them address the podium exactly so Mr godier thank you for coming up are are you a transportation engineer I am not no and you are not a civil engineer correct correct and you are not an environmental engineer scientist correct that's correct you're not a climatologist no uh isn't it true that you've not performed any concurrency analysis for this project such as water sewer fire or EMS that's correct uh you have not performed any storm evacuation analysis for this project correct no okay and Mr godier has a core ever given your expert testimony minimal weight that has a all right I'm actually going to grab something for you to read yeah this is what you said a couple of questions of what now it's this is my last series of questions sure but I'm just trying to understand what what your let no let her finish no no I I let her finish I just know I don't know what it is I'd like to know what we're looking at I have copies okay she's going to do it all right if you could um go to paragraph 52 for me please all right so I'm looking at page 11 on the document and for the rec the document I have just passed out is a circuit court decision from Conservancy of Southwest Florida V colier County uh and col your Enterprises management it was a decision decided in 20 21 yes all right Mr goer can you read paragraph 52 for me in the end Mr Go's opinion rest upon the omission of key words from the growth management plan and the addition of words and requirements that do not exist in the GMP accordingly the Court gives his opinions minimum weight in the GMP in that case is referring to the County's comprehensive plan correct that's correct and the so the in that case you appin about three or four comprehensive plan Provisions correct uh uh many more more than that and the court rejected your opinion on all of those Provisions correct that's correct there's an explanation all right thank you very much certainly would you well so no I mean I we have the city is a party so we can cross okay thank you um would you care to elaborate then uh yes may I explain um a involved a very significant development approval of about a th000 Acres 2,000 units located uh somewhere south of Ami location was in a panther habitat it was pursuant to the rural land stewardship program very complex litigation uh heavily contested uh I was there as a witness for the uh uh plaintiff um as we went along the issues were narrowed and narrowed and narrowed through very effective motions uh by the opposing Council uh in the end my my my focus was relocated to walkability of the community those were important policy requirements because of the remote location the policies called for uh destinations in the form of a town center uh and called for walk ability uh I performed elaborate analysis about walkability um the judge focused on a single policy that said walkability will be achieved through sidewalks now my analysis looked at the policies as a whole as you're supposed to I pointed out absurd results that can occur but I wasn't obviously I wasn't persuasive and that is that case I and I'll just add it was appealed to District Court The District Court remanded it for further evaluation and additional issues and the party settled thank you I have a few followup questions um excuse me excuse me order in the room please it's we're going to ask uh commissioner ask the next question I apologize I thought if you'll allow me to call on you I would appreciate that commissioner I'd like to request to recess and move on from this let me rephrase I do not have any further questions I just have a statement of you have been provided highlights and you at your discretion can read those okay thank you okay so I agree let's let's finish up with one one person at a time thank you I agree on recess thank you for your time thank you sir all right mayor quick question did did they identify who was giving up their time uh in order to have them speak as the other groups did no they did not no I don't know I think I think they need to identify who who they're giving up okay that's how you treated the others yeah yeah no city clerk be fair I have L city city clerk if you please identify the people that gave up their time so previously they stood up and identified themselves no no they did no they did the the other parties did stand up so I didn't see anyone okay yeah okay I was just trying to treat treat him equally yeah okay did we get 12 cards did we did we get 12 cards in the first place I have no cards just okay we will take a six minute six minute recess back at 11:45 city clerk do we have any audience comments yes we do the first I'm going to call um five Colonel Mike Greger Edna Hicks Dana Richardson Sandy SPO and jod pal I do not see Colonel Mike Greger who was number two Edna Hicks Dana Richardson Sandy SPO and j po uh who is number three I'm sorry Dana Richardson Dana Richardson if you'll please state your name and address for the record time all right I don't know how to change that but okay my name's Dana Landis I mean Richardson and I live at 5830 Bahama Way South I moved here in 2020 looking forward to the beach life however I soon realized biking is unsafe and jwalkers are everywhere we live off 59th where Snappers restaurant is there is a traffic like there which makes this a dangerous area to get in and out of especially when there are visitors standing in the road waiting for a table multiple times I've almost been hit on hit hit head on using the median Lane to cross over Gul Boulevard after listening tonight sarata doesn't have any traffic lights and I feel for the people they're going to have to cross over the Gulf Boulevard median it is a very serious safety issue it's not being discussed here tonight even though safety is mentioned in three of the seven LDC requirements for this cup approval section 4.4 2D 3 and five here are some recent articles 2021 okay that's not working either Gulf Boulevard dangers remain despite years of promised action by leaders I don't know why this isn't working uh 2022 panella's most dangerous for walking bicycling and 2021 deaths nearly double 2023 St Pete Beach hopes to improve Golf Boulevard after deadly history Transportation Transportation planners like Michelle Gonzalez St Pete Beach Community Development director told ABC News you know we have an existing roadway we have building everywhere limited space what can we do don't take my personal experience from this F Dot and for pelis safety needs identified by the city due to increase in recent crashes 70-year-old Dead four other pedestrians injured in St Pete Beach hit and run couple hit killed by a car while crossing the boulevard density and safety go hand in hand the higher the density the less saf safer streets will be I ask that you not only look at the density of hotels present and future but also the magnitude of developments nearby as we know they are coming to our beaches too St Pete Rising shows over 3,000 units under construction Skyway Marina is just a few minutes away they're building out 3,000 units how many people can our beach committee hold and keep safe to sum it up we have a serious safety issue now we have density added from multiple sources Hotel expansions like Michelle Gonzalez says we have limited uh space what can we do I'd also like to say that um I've got something to hand to you I am providing a checklist for the criteria under 4.4 and 4.12 which this application fails to be supported by competence of substantial evidence and a draft motion for denial thank you thank you if you'll please state your name and address for the record yes my name is Sandy SPO and I live at 5301 Gulf Boulevard in boka Sands I have a picture here I don't know how to put it up but um directly okay two okay um there are a number of items in the special use permit document that I would like to address on page 10 it states that the applicant met with the Florida Department of Transportation to coordinate access locations and minimize the impact to Golf Boulevard in the four years I have lived at boka Sands the drive that is directly across from the entrance to boka Sands has been barricaded and I was told it was for trucks only I have been trying to find out how this could be changed to an entrance to a 321 parking space eight story public garage it's directly across that's what we see you see the Do Not inner sign over here okay I talked to bar and Barry said the applicant had been working with the Florida Department of Transportation on roadway connections and all would be go through their Department I then had the opportunity to speak with Donald Marco with the Florida Department of Transportation he said that he had not seen the final design plans of the developer and that they had only had two informal meetings with them of which the last was in September he further told me that he would get back to me uh when I asked him how the trucks only entrance could disappear he said the owner said they took it away and well anyway so now we are going to have across the street from us a public garage that's eight or nine stories tall with 130 room motel in front of it who's going to park in this garage and then on your lot two that you have here of the Sab sabata they are going to park in this garage and it's open to the public 247 so if you think it's going to hurt my property value sure it's going to if you think it's going to impact my view sure it's going to I'm going to get to go out on my balcony every day and look at an eight-story parking garage across the street I was told by some well we need more Beach parking okay you think the people that go all and park two miles away down in front of your house are going to pay to park in that parking garage I doubt it I don't know I I wouldn't park in a parking garage you know you can drive from Corey Avenue all the way to the Bayway you don't see one parking individual parking not under hotels but a public parking garage this will be a president that you will set no doubt about it thank you ma'am and thank you I also would like to State thank you ma'am your time is up unfortunately okay thank you Jody pal Deborah shner Ted teal are next if you'll please state your name and address for the record hello good evening I'm here about 4.4 please state your name and address for the sorry Jody Powell 5930 Bahama Way North St Pete Beach I'm here about the historic and cultural area promoting Gulf views no walls across Gulf Boulevard we're known as Sunset Capital with the historic charm of no highrises residents choose to live in this community because of the quality of life due to the appeal of its beauty Tranquility Serenity safety of our small island the beautiful beach in abundance of Wildlife and we don't want that destroyed we pay 80% of the taxes and we live here year round supporting the restaurants and bars in the past we had discounts now they're charging us $25 parking fee to eat and supply business to their restaurants uh my my family has lived here on St be Beach since the early 60s my present home I've been in since 1973 my uncle was a captain of the St Pete Beach police force my cousin was a sergeant detective for the first can9 here on the beach my father a World War II Marine veteran was a Coast Guard auxil auxiliary here and he also was security of the Don CeSar trade winds and Three Palms point my brother an Air Force veteran with security at the Sera trade wins and three po Palms point the hotels in this community are family-owned mom and pop they're not highrises um we all had a great relationship with them uh the Nicholas family bought the Sera in 1962 and they had Harry's they happened to be friends of mine and Harry's was named after the father and the grandfather well we go there we like to enjoy um the beach and we bring our family and Friends historically you will see in some of these um we have our historic community in 197 we have a Historic Museum Women's Club in 1922 Don CeSar in 1928 we had Corey Avenue is 7even decades old Woodies is 1945 and a lot of our hotels are from the 50s the Alden the banire um Gail's restaurant was 1954 and we have the historic Golf Trail iian putter usually the Marriott and I enjoy going to marott hotels but what we need is for them to meet our community's culture come in and renovate and Remodel and keep it within the guidelines of the 30 units and not go 75 um we don't want walls across Gulf Boulevard blocking our views the residents use of the entire Beach behind the hotels you know they pay taxes up to the end of their property line and the rest of the beach belongs to we the public that's why we paid and pay the taxes that we do to live here we the residents will appreciate your support to fight for us and the right to sustain our way of life on St Pete Beach we chose to live here because of the views and because of no high-rise hotels no walls blocking our view and as I always say My grandmother used to say you can have all the intelligence in the world but if you don't have common sense you have nothing at all but we paid to be here to have those beautiful views and not have a Clearwater Beach and Atlantic City uh you know a Daytona a Miami Beach we don't want that we like the culture of St Peete Beach please take that into consideration for we the residents who have been here for a long time and that's why we're here thank you for your time and we hope you'll consider this thank thank you very much thank you for sharing those photos they're cool photos they're cool photos we have a lot of historic history here right we'd like to keep it that right good evening Deborah shner boa Isle I've lived here for over two decades I've served on the St P Beach Finance board served on the pelis County transportation board and I was an inter mayor for over two decades the majority of residents have remained steadfast in not wanting tall buildings and higher density additional proof for me was when the recent election of our mayor who ran on a strong resident first platform we are a Beach residential Community with tourists if the sarata and the trade winds are approved we will become a tourist Community with residents both projects will bring 1,000 more rooms times four some of them are sweets equals 4,000 new tourist accommodations in addition to everything else that's sitting on the ground that is a tourist Hotel I mentioned both projects because they have an impact both in the number of rooms the large increasing tourists and just the beginning right now we have a growth cycle windw pass PCI possibly the dolphin and others close behind and wanting to redevelop my history and experience includes participation in countless of meetings visioning workshops Town Halls discussions with many residents and experts over the years during the city sponsored Collaborative Labs that were held in the early 2000s Hotel years Commissioners business owners and residents dedicate time to State what to looks like now what we wanted to look at in the future consensus vote during the labs was that we have a quaint familyfriendly laid-back and safe Beach Community with a good mix of restaurants and businesses with natural resources and environment easy access to the beach fishing swimming and boating we have a balanced Community with the tourist the consensus by vote again for the Future Vision we wanted to remain acquaint laid-back and family-friendly Community with tourist restaurants and businesses have access to our beaches water activities enjoy safe good activities be reasonably vibrant which I thought was interesting a complete town we did not want and again large group of people high density buildings of any kind and 55.5% of attendees agreed remember Hotel were part of that through the years residents frequent in large numbers voic that their opposition to the tall buildings and higher density at numerous Town Halls over 20 years City commission meetings this is our history and as you hear from residents today it is also a future the current residents desire I support reasonable and respons POS development in character with our community and neighborhoods I cannot support in good conscience the seratic conditional use forit it is not a right I urge you to vote no please do not set a dangerous precedence for the trade wins and other developers that they come before you imagine crowded beaches walls blocking views breezes imagine a packed Beach traffic jams and many years of construction all beyond your control my quality of life is at stake and our con constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness thank you any what here to this paradise thank you if you'll please state your name and address for the record I am Ted teal 2871 Alton drive on ven doar I ask the commission to reject the cup application because of the adverse effect of the High room density requested on traffic safety and the character of the city and because of the precedent it would set as Protectors of the city the commission has an obligation to use common sense in its decision making for example it's common sense that approving the dramatically increased room density per acre proposed will lead virtually every property owner in the resort District to EXP exploit the precedent set by this decision and submit cup applications to increase their property density to the same level it defies common sense for the commission not to consider the cumulative adverse effect of developers exploiting the precedent it that this would set but even if we consider just this application which defies common sense that the since the trade wins application is waiting in the wings there is reason to believe that this application would cause one or more of the adverse effects enumerated in the municipal code let's take traffic today A Wednesday in February not High season at around noon not on Saturday I was driving north along Gulf Boulevard to my dentist in South Pasadena just living my life traffic was backed up all the way down Gulf Boulevard to the Don CeSar I was very late for my appointment as Drew War said uh the the tra the serata study that he reviewed had significant errors and flaws which rendered it not competent substantial evidence based on my observations living here and going up and down Gulf Boulevard even the 20 400 extra cars per day that the serata projects would make traffic untenable not to mention the additional uh cups that are inevitably following please use common sense reject this application and ask the developer to come back with a new application with significantly lower room density per acre this would reduce the adverse tra traffic and other effects and create a more livable precedent thank you thank you sir next are Lisa Reich Joanne Zac Rita Ruda Hance and Mark Kavanaugh if you'll please state your name and address for the record yes my name is Lisa Reich and I live on 78th Avenue and I don't I don't know my slides okay okay so so I have sent um what oh the clock okay can she you want to reset my time yeah I don't know why this isn't coming up there it is okay I'm ready um I sent an email earlier this week to to detail a timeline just so you guys get an idea so I'm going to go really really fast through my slides um again I'm a homeowner business owner local artist and uh Coastal Wildlife conservationist I've been patrolling the beaches for 13 years uh not only here on St Pete Beach but in various beaches uh in pelis County um I have trained and attended most recently in 2023 the lighting Workshop put on by Sea Turtle Conservancy and clear water marine aquarium um as of 2020 I went out last night and I conducted a lighting survey and my results were that 95% of the property from the north building all the way down to Rum Runners was 95% non-compliant and I was shocked um as you guys know sea turtles are protected um and St Pete Beach has a marine turtle protection ordinance um in the Land Development code division 44 marine turtle protection it's been in place since 2007 it needs to be updated um there are model ordinances out there but I know we're in the middle of the beach um ordinance debacle um so but there is a city ordinance that's that does in fact exist uh on December 5th um the staff report was revised to con to uh include conditions and criteria and the staff modified the condition to require that all existing Lighting in addition to the new lighting uh be compliant with local County and state requirements that's down there in the red sorry I keep forgetting to move it um part of the timeline I did multiple lighting surveys over time uh since December 5th I did two and found that the property was non-compliant I didn't do as an extensive lighting survey as I did last night um as of February 13th it was before I emailed you guys I sent an email to Sara and uh this was the third attempt to contact them since June of 2023 to try and see if we could go in and help them um at this point point you know it's obvious that I don't know who's telling them what or or who's gone in and dead a lighting survey I also did a public research or public record request and as of um I think it was December there weren't any records of lighting surveys I have four seconds left um this is the North End building 100% non-compliant all white lights this was last night this one is uh the middle main building along uh uh as well as uh Rum Runners in the corner here uh there's minimal compliance but um about 95% of this is non-compliant this is compliant and you can see the difference in the lighting the pool has recessed lights I'm sorry to interrupt Mr R did I hear the beeper go off did we extend time um sorry did the timer go off yeah oh sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry too we're all getting tired okay all right uh if you would mind just wrapping it up okay basically the sarata's existing property is not compliant uh with the St Pete Beach's marine turtle protection ordinance and does not meet the conditions put forth by the planning board uh or the city planner staff report as of December 5th thank you that's it thank you you please state your name and address for the record Joan Zac 225 South Tessier okay there have been so many things brought up tonight I have so much I want to say I can't even fit it all in so I'm going to probably talk fast I apologize but um basically I want to start saying that the city planners and the planning board are set up to Sure ensure that regulations are met using quantitative analysis and um you guys get get involved in the process kind of at the end to make sure residents are predicted and considering things like public services the character the environment and possible nuisances um and it states in the 4.2 section that the commission can make a decision based on whether the permit plans may but do not necessarily have significant adverse effects meaning that um the potential for an adverse effect is sufficient grounds to deny or request modification so two things I'm probably going to B here but two things I really want to focus on that that bothered me the most um one is the character of the city which is the essence of our city basically and the other is the density of our city um obviously we are uh pretty much at capacity for traffic uh we all know that there's um not enough I I not enough Road space I guess to get down the road um so obviously adding any more people any more population is going to make it worse and do we just keep adding people until we burst at the seams in the traffic studies there are two things that are definitely missing and I think this is why everybody kind of laughs when you talk about the traffic studies but um the main components that add traffic to our streets are how sunny it is and how warm it is I have not heard either of those mentioned in any of the traffic studies on a weekend day if it's a warm sunny day we have really heavy traffic if it's if it's not warm or sunny we don't um regarding public services in the last couple of months my family personally has had issues with Transportation taking uh 25 minutes to get a ride on the freebie I ended up walking a mile and a half faster twice um Emergency Services my daughter called 911 nobody came um law enforcement uh we have a lot of discussion about minor things like dogs on the beach or people urinating in the dunes nobody response to those at all and if we add more people to hotels they obviously um their calls are probably going to be of a more serious nature because they're not going to be concerned about the little things so we're concerned that our smaller concerns are not going to get addressed um people love the character of St Pete Beach is what bring brings people back here time and time again I only have um not much time left so I don't know if this will show up how do I get something to show up there okay so here is the kindergarten sheet that we teach kindergarteners to learn how to see what belongs and what doesn't you can see um what doesn't belong there easily Beach you can look at that and I think the kindergarteners could also easily pick out which one doesn't belong there thank you the next five will be Mark Kavanaugh Pamela Harris Susie Bogan Cindy Perry and Julianne Cy if you'll please state your name and address for the record Ruda Hance at 7711 Kina way 30 years ago I drove out of bell Vista and down Gulf Boulevard crying my father was in the car with me and he was dying I was frantic to make it to the hospital yelling at drivers to get the hell out of my way St Pete Beach is an island if I turn left I would have been in the Gulf if I turn right I would have been in the bay so I had no choice but to bypass traffic on Gulf Boulevard keep going straight driving over Cur curbs trying to get my father to the hospital in addition to the hotel issue here right now nobody is considering the thousands of high-rise Apartments being built all over downtown St Pete and Skyway Village and yes most of these residents will be coming to St Pete Beach destination analysis did a study showing over 1.3 million visitors in our area were local day trippers and 92% of these visitors Ed personal or Rental Vehicles now with all this new development these day Trippers visits to our beach will increase exponentially further exacerbating any traffic anybody's talking about with the hotels and that is going to happen with or without any additional hotels we are not stupid we all know these developers with deep C Pockets can afford attorneys to fill Buster here late into the night making statements that are not always true and they can manipulate data for traffic and vehicle studies that will of course come out in their favor we live here we know what we see and what is true the residents had already spoken when the comprehensive plan was made don't let these rich developers intimidate us into thinking we have to let them stray from the plan no we don't you work for us not not them before I retired I worked for the government as a public servant I took my oath of office seriously caring about how I affected people's lives and doing the right thing following the laws in place regardless of my opinion that our citizens had entrusted me to carry out just as we are now entrusting you to do you have a will you have a clean conscience knowing you voted to stick with the comprehensive plan that your constituents had voted on and entrusted you to carry out on their behalf or will you side with developers and flippers trading in our midsize retirement family-friendly town with nationally recognized clean beaches and a sense of community to create something like the pictured Clearwater Beach that nobody wants to visit will you stand for limited but elegant developments similar to admired beaches such as Hilton head which has fewer rooms and the ability to charge higher rates this is supply and demand economics 101 thank you you please state your name and address for the record Pamela Harris I'm I'm a resident of BCA Sands 5301 Gulf Boulevard I want to speak to you today about four specific criteria I have handouts for each of you all in case you can't see them from the uh pictures and presentation I'm doing um I represent those residents of boa Sands and we have um we feel that we are directly impacted by the sarata development first I'd like to talk to you about the Ingress and egress of the of boka Sands um all owners in the condominium complex already have a very difficult and dangerous uh situation coming out of our driveway onto Gulf Boulevard both going north and south making a left turn in High season is treacherous at best with the addition of the ninstory parking garage the sarata is proposing it will not only be impossible for our residents to exit but again extremely dangerous be aware that the commercial business beachmark also shares the tiny center turning line um which at the CPU is Grant granted as proposed will also become the Turning line into the nine-story parking garage Beach Mark's entrance is 15 ft south of boka Sand's entrance with 575 parking spaces the proposed garage will make entering and exiting bcus SS deadly please refer to the uh pictures I have ABC and d and if I have time I'll answer any questions about those photographs E and F or are my current view of the gulf from the end of November a proximately to the end of February I'm able to watch this sunset from my balcony if you get permission of the CPU I'm going to be looking at that nine-story parking garage finally in um we contend that the application will have significant adverse effects on the livability of all residents at BCA Sands standards in review state in 4.2 4.4 . 2D one must consider all adverse impacts on nearby lands we are nearby lands within 500 ft I urge you to pause and decline the CPU as residents of St Pete Beach and I ask you to find compromise I also thank you there are two other pictures and I'll be happy to answer any questions about those if you so desire thank you think we have them in the package if you'll please state your name and address for the record my name is Cindy Perry I live at 1126 bokaa ale Drive I am a retired project management professional certified by the project management Institute Institute however I don't think it takes a PMP to recognize that this cup has many incomplete components and is not even ready for City commission review one of the most troubling aspects is the economic impact analysis I have requested in writing at more than one of these public meetings since April 2023 that the impact on Resident city taxes be calculated and evaluated to assure consistency with the comprehensive plan and not result in increases for the resident's tax burden this slide is from the economic impact analysis the compreh comprehensive plan calls for redevelopment in the large resort District to assist with Shifting the city's tax burden from residents to businesses the plan recommends 30 to 40% of local tax revenue be generated by commercial properties for the healthiest economy this shows taxes collected at the city level and fiscal year 2023 where commercial properties contributed less than 20% of the tax burden further the information that we have from the applicant states that their Pro fora cannot be used for any kind of metric for this project so there's no data there's no multi-year financial analysis on the impact to resident city taxes the city's comment in the planning board packet stating the project is likely to increase the commercial tax base only proves the city has not completed the analysis to actually know the impact not achieving the comprehensive goal comprehensive plan goal to shift the city's tax burden would be a significant adverse impact the city should not make such a large consequential irreversible potentially precedent setting decision before doing the math we need to be sure sure that this cup is consistent with the financial goals stated in the comprehensive plan in summary there are many items required for this CPU that have not been properly evaluated the economic impact analysis is only one example I Am pro Redevelopment but this entire Pro proposed project has not been properly analyzed or approached as a win-win the cup should be denied a new approach which includes working with the city and residents for a mutually beneficial Redevelopment is required thank you thank you if you please state your name and address for the record morning uh my name is Julie Cy 132 pun Vista Drive I can see Sara for my backyard I would love to see something with character and charm like the dawn or for the Zamora unlike the proposed block building structure but that is not my highest priority I am nervous every time I turn left out of my neighborhood I'm uncomfortable crossing the street at the crosswalk but mostly I am fearful of hitting someone when I drive down Gulf Boulevard tourists have no idea of the dangers of crossing the street and many don't even use the crosswalk most drivers go over the posted 35 mph SP speed limit we need to have something intuitive that is in place like censored red lights um before we add thousands of people to our area red lights and crosswalks uh the drivers don't know what to do with the crosswalks the tourists don't know what to do with the crosswalks there needs to be a committee coordinating with our city state and the do to reduce the speed limit on Golf Boulevard or put in censored red lights at every neighborhood my neighborhood has a beach access right across the street it would make sense to put a red light there the Florida standard for business and res residential areas is 30 m hour having more red lights would help reduce the speed on Gul Boulevard I understand this is a state issue but it needs to be addressed before this project is approved Land Development code section 4.4 includes neighborhood impacts and pedestrian safety which are my two major concerns regarding Gul Boulevard the complexities of having on lane closed for road work over the last several years has only added to driver and pedestrian confusion this is only going to increase with two major Resorts under construction how could we ease the stress of delivery and construction equipment possibly all work Vehicles arrive via Pasadena and depart via the Bayway thereby eliminating left turns what about the safety of bicyclists with basically no bike lane I ask that you postpone your boat until these issues are resolved for the safety of cyclists pedestrians as well as drivers whose lives are changed forever like Jenna who was turning left on Gulf Boulevard at 7:18 p.m. a couple who had been drinking all day uh walked into her car in an unlit area nothing has been done to improve the safety since this tragic accident on January 23 it would be negligent to pass this right now until more work is done also when we resolve pedestrian crossings by red lights or speed limits it will affect the basis and outcomes of the existing traffic study which looks to me like we're already at gridlock thank thank you next will be Steve Sanders Carol Blair Nancy Shannon Wendy fruin and Claudine Reese if you'll please state your name and address for the record hi I'm Susie Bogden I live at 7912 sailboat Key Boulevard South number 603 and while I am actually a resident of South Pasadena I consider St P Beach my home I certainly spend a lot of time and money and really enjoy this area very much um I'm fortunate to call it my home all year round I was also born and raised here in St Petersburg and after a career in the military with very many moves it's nice to come back home to care for my aging parents in such a lovely town and I'm grateful to come back to the same natural beauty and character of a place where I grew up and it helped me become the person that I am I'm delighted to have the opportunity to volunteer with our local nonprofits to help protect our Wildlife including our sea turtles our birds and our Coastal habitat this is my hometown and it currently retains the character and history that made St P Beach a place that both turned and local residents love please don't undo all this amazing progress all the hard work and determination of residents and elected representatives before you who've done so much to preserve what we love about St Pete Beach this massive serata expansion just doesn't make sense to me or anybody I talked to about it and it will ruin everything we love about this area what the serata has planned is just too big and it's too intrusive for our Beach and it harms our community it will destroy the heart and soul of who we are I didn't plan to stay in this area um I really want to go overseas but I've kind of fallen in love with it all over again and honestly if this expansion Goes Forth in its current state I don't think I want to live here uh St Pete Beach will lose its Hometown charm and I really don't think tourists will like it either one of my military assignments was located in Miami and I loved living there at the time but I hate going back to Miami now its gross out ofc control development has destroyed the enjoyment of even visiting there so these are photos a little crooked sorry um and that's me at the bottom on the beach at up and Beach um my family and friends and just for yall's sake this is a this is our student government class 1985 at the steps of the Dawn this is the St P Beach we all know and love and want to preserve and right now it's a pivotal moment for the future of St Pete Beach and for all of us and you have the power to make a positive difference and save our beach and our identity by not allowing this serat expansion and insisting upon responsible development thank you very much for your time thank you again St Sanders carair NC Shannon Wendy Ree and then if not numbers 1 through 10 on the cards SE excuse anybody numbers 1 through 10 just hand me your card when you come up if you please state your name and address for the record Lisa Robinson 7100 boa sea Drive turn to the left thank you I'm a 53-year beach resident I grew up on Treasure Island I'm a 35 year St P Beach resident and I'm a 33e homeowner of in St P Beach same house my playground was a Treasure Island Beach uh St Pete Beach and clear waterer Beach I know the beaches I could probably say I'm an expert at that I have witnessed both the good and bad changes that overdevelopment brings I'm not against development I'm against this project due to its massive size and scale I've seen how Mass massive development changes the character of a community just look at San key Clear Water Miami and their traffic level of service compare that to Treasure Island where they have responsible development and they're still developing this is our beach right here this project itself is massive the average hotel size on this beach if you take it together the average hotel is six stories this project is Max lot long does it block everybody's view but it's m s development wants to double that six stories but the both the comp plan and the LDC specifically address this compatibility with character of existing structures 4.4 A2 compatibility with the community 4.11 intensity and scale 4.4 a2a size style scale 4.4 a2c height and massing 4124 that's five times it's mentioned in the LDC five this is just not the right development for us this is massive and the applicant can demonstrate otherwise which is their requirement to do so your obl obligation is to not only consider the standard and to make sure it's demonstrated but to also represent the will of the people in this community which brings me to consistency with the comp plan 4.4 A1 this massive development does not address the comp plan's guiding principles built out Community citizens objections to height and density protection of character we have a conflict here not only with our own comp plan in LDC but with vendors such as kimley horn working both sides of the fence with the city and with the developer if there's a doubt you should throw this out please vote no if you'll please state your name and address for the record hi my name is W fruin I live at 636 6361 third Pond Point um I am a lifelong resident of St P Beach I've been a resident for 50 plus years um I am not uh anti-development I'm definitely Pro development I learned to swim in the Don Cesars pool I've worked at the hotels my mom worked at the hotels um we've always had a relationship as a community with the hotels they're an integral part of who we are this however is so overwhelming it's so encompassing of what we have is a beach to offer this project is basically looking at the maximum density the maximum that we can give um our goal as a a city is to redevelop all of this if we allow a project like this to happen we're not leaving room for any of the future projects that are coming when we start looking at things like the sewage the the infrastructure the traffic um so I'm not against this project I'm against this project being of this magnitude and I think as a responsible commissioner commission what your job tonight is to go back to these people and tell them this is not acceptable um because we need to look at what the future holds for us and if we allow this to happen there is not going to be room in our city to redevelop these other Pro properties need to be redeveloped the other thing uh one other thing I wanted to mention tonight when I came in was I Live 08 miles from The Toasted monkey and when I'm in my bathroom I can sing along with the music that I'm hearing from that it doesn't bother me at 10 o'clock they're good neighbors or good stewards they shut down the music it's never 10:01 it's never 10:02 um but that is ground level uh venue that does everything that they can can to mitigate that sound they're courteous neighbors my fear with this Project's Proposal with the elevated venue that would allow live music that even though it's facing the beach it's also facing directly down the beach unobstructed that sound will carry especially being elevated it's going to be impactful to our residents impactful to um the other vacationers that we have here um and these are people with deep po ETS just like we're experiencing with an issue on pass a grill they continually um disregard our ordinances the city has proven itself powerless to enforce that uh and that's a local business my fear is with a large corporation coming in that there's never going to be a chance to put that back in its box and we're going to be dealing with noise pollution um that we're not going to be able to stop up so that's pretty much it I again I'm not against the Redevelopment we just need to use common sense and I'm just asking the commission to actually fight for a residence not just take what this Corporation is coming in and handing to us at face value and to kind of give and take and it has to be a working not trust us um relationship with the corporation so thank you thank you thank you okay I I called card numbers 1 through 10 to come up if there aren't any 10 through 20 come up and give me your card good evening Commissioners or good morning if you'll please state your name and address for the record I'm Claudine Reese I live on V delmare and um I've been a resident of St Pete Beach for over 25 years and the reason my husband and I ch chose to live here is because we loved the small Beach Town character being slow paced a very nice Beach Vibe and honestly the real selling point was the Don CeSar we still find the beauty enchanting really um but over the 25 years I've heard about debates about Redevelopment from the sidelines and like many residents I was raising my family and I was working um I did become more familiar with the Redevelopment issues uh within recent years while the more orium now I realized was coming to an end so um after much research I realized there's been a clear battle for decades actually between the resident Vision versus developers vision for our town and I'm here tonight to ask that you look closely at the comp plan and ask that you listen to and consider our expert testimony unequal footing as the applicants and to consider the lay person testimony as substantial evidence as cited in section 4.11 um which also 4.11 states that such projects require higher than usual level of public scrutiny to ensure that such developments are in harmony with Community character and consistent with the policies um past litigation and moratoriums are the whole reason that we have this blank canvas or diamond in the rough with acres and Acres of beachfront properties assembled over the years with corporate buyouts of familyowned hotels uh we need Redevelopment and we welcome it however we must be good stewards of our town by implementing quality control let's look to towns such as Hilton Head Aspen St Augustine Fort Lauderdale by the Sea um for the way forward our comp plan has this protection in section 4.4 standards for review include consist consistency with existing area structures building style and SC scale let's look to the best architecture we have here and have consistency with those buildings section 4.4 mandates preservation of State designated Scenic resources St Pete Beach has the wonderful designation the state designation of sunset capital of the of Florida which someone mentioned earlier our main thoroughfare Gulf Boulevard is about 2 and 1/2 miles long from one and the other and the large District Resort is nearly a mile if this permit is approved and others in the district follow suit nearly half of our Town's main pedestrian thoroughfare will be deprived of sunlight early in the day for a lot of the time of the year so and to sum it up you are under no obligation to vote Yes as you already know your job as you know is not to bow to the whims of developers but rather represent the residents please do not allow the sub subject to be muddied between the property rights versus entitlement to maximize profits the residents have rights to we have the rights to preserve the wildlife history natural beauty character and charm of our Beach town thank you okay any remaining card holders come forward if you please state your name and address for the record Linda Len 2802 passag Grill way my comments are directed Direct too unfortunately I've forgotten your name but your son has stepped out so maybe you're going to be able to answer for him would have been so much better if he had come uh he asked us to trust him this evening we should trust him on water on your water person the water table's 15 feet down how in the world do you think that vault is going to work I think we've beat traffic to death that one you got more work to do but the best slide tonight was the view the view where you had that uh triangle in bright red you'd have to be leaning out of the building to get the view that they're trying to pretend that you would have you can't trust that can you now um all see I'm going to direct my comments to you sir Mr I'm going to sorry I don't remember your name Mr columia Mayor that's improper um she has said Dr Linda if you please tell me how what his name is if you if you please just address sorry if you just address the commission please okay but the comments are directed to the developer because the developer is asking us you personally have said we would have you had any bad outcomes have you had any um uh bankruptcies well he himself mentioned this evening that he had built the Hilton in Clear Water and curiously that contract somehow someway conveniently lacked the parking garage can you imagine what that did to the contract to the cost of that project and I think it's fair for him I'm happy to set my time so that he can elaborate on his previous answer because obviously the previous answer wasn't quite accurate but he's not bad maybe dad would like thank you ma'am can we ask the father to to no ma'am if if you'll please direct your questions to the to the commission I'll let you ask him can you ask the the developer what happened on that particular contract because obviously he forgot to tell us about it it's a con it was the Hilton he mentioned the Hilton I didn't mention it he mentioned the Hilton this evening that he had built that and as luck would have it I know the bankers all right that is where the information came from they neglected to include the parking garage if you're going to vote Yes I hope you've checked on the parking garage for this project because that would be critical to this project but I think it's fair to ask the developer the city should do that that is your responsibility to get all the information what happened and why did he forget the to have the the parking garage in that Construction contract were you all aware of that you were aware of it I made you aware of it yes I did last no I'm saying I I wasn't aware of it but I was made you aware of it at the Friday at Monday at the library thank you I I will I'm disappointed that city council is not doing their job this is your job is to find out all the information and you're not doing it you're just um stonewalling that's not good next person please if you'll state your name and address for the record oh yes jolen Lawson uh 5407 Leilani Drive um and this is just real quick I would like uh and I'm the director of the protect St Pete Beach advocacy group um I just would like to submit for record the results of our online petitions um we've had 2,100 157 people sign one or both of the petitions um the first petition is against approving serata and trade WIS conditional use permits as proposed uh and the other was petition against overdevelopment in St Pete Beach and of those 900 people are within one mile of sarata and 362 people are within half a mile the names and addresses are in this folder thank you thank you you please state your name and address for the record John kurman hopefully you can zoom in a little better on that uh beah Honda way um this ordinance was signed in 2005 by Ward fski when he was mayor so he was very familiar this was the this was the conditional use uh ordinance so he understood that it was a subjective uh ordinance that uh helped you to decide what was uh could be done and if you look at the different things you could choose uh there was a lot of subjectivity but he actually at the last meeting uh said that he would have turned down the Project based on for instance the way the parking garage looked so you have that leeway um and if you look carefully uh if you look at section 35 of our ordinances it says that a large resort district is to encourage full service integrated Resort development if it's three acres of size or greater um and if you look at 35.3 it even starts saying that a secondary commercial use is if it's a non-residential use uh located within uh that is not located within the principal building so I suggest you really dive in and understand that the a concept of a principal building so which is the principal building in this project which is the principal building which is the secondary building and also there you know in a large resort you're supposed to be trying to get in retail in eating and drinking establishments and all sorts of other things going on um and then in 35 says you should also be the large resort ordinance that says that you should start getting involved with this uh the section 39 and it says that you should make sure that your hedges allow an unobstructed view part of the property from your public streets and that you should have a 10-ft sidewalk and a flow for sidewalk cafes and outdoor eating areas and look at this there's walls you're not supposed to have walls um and and and your parking garage is very specific the ordinance says with a parking garage there's no there's no ambiguity it tells you you're supposed to have a a look that's specific the ordinance tells you in section 39 what a parking garage should look like it shouldn't be guesswork um and and and here's their slide it says the Gulf Boulevard should attract people for living employment and Recreation and the city should encourage revitalization through commercial and temporary lodging will attract residents and visitors do you think that this attracts residents and visitors when there's a wall look at the size of that car look how high that wall is and look how you don't see the the front of the building you don't have you're supposed to have a every window is supposed to be visible only 10% of the windows are supposed to be opaque everything is supposed to be visible and open and inviting so in a definition of a resort is supposed to be that you that that not just adding hotels it's it's it it this is not at all the the concept um that it's supposed to be thank you sir envisioned so I'd be before this if this was actually a Resort thank thank you sir city clerk do we have any other audience comments I don't see any okay with that we will close the audience comments time and we are approaching 9 minutes to 1:00 a.m. I I'd motion to go hopefully we don't go but to go until 3:00 a.m. I guess I would everybody feeling pretty good about thinking things through logically and we've heard what we need to hear everybody feeling good enough to make a decision tonight or do we need to think about I hate to move this another day I'd like to get this overdone with one way or another but everybody feeling clear-headed enough to to keep going till 3 do you have another proposed option no I'm just asking the question I guess I want I was looking for nods or something so I'm thinking yeah I think we're all thinking it's I don't I don't think well one if we go to 2:00 we'll need to recess which then means we have 50 minutes which is not enough time for the applicant to do their rebuttal and then for us to deliberate ask any further questions so uh it's either going to be 3:00 a.m. or later or we adjourn that makes more sense to me because I forgot that we have to have rebuttal time so I would not want to put that off so I'm good with her. am we're waiting for a second correct I mean we can well we can we can discuss it before we vote on the motion those are my thoughts let's discuss it so I I I mean I think that it's would we've come this far I would hate to postpone the applicant's opportunity to rebut and for us to to finish any questioning we have of them I would hate to postpone that to another day um you know so if it it is all possible to get through at bare minimum that tonight I think that would be very valuable for the process to have gotten that all done in one sitting I probably accomplished that by two that be fair so by two our discussions by by two to have the applicant take a take a recess have the applicant give them half an hour 45 minutes an hour for rebuttal or however long they want to take um and then at 2 o'cl we revisit or we adjourn so I'm just trying to understand so at 2 o' if they do their rebuttal let's say it's hour at 2:00 what would our options be if no one wants to go any longer tonight we can adjourn and we'd have to pick a date certain you would what would be the earliest date certain we could do tomorrow what was that tomorrow yeah or actually [Laughter] today just go home and nap and come back I can say right now I can't do tomorrow I've got a full day at work tomorrow yeah I do too FR we can talk about that I'd have to look into it we could talk about that I I propose let's I propose we kind of compromise the middle let's go to 2 o'cl and revisit at 2 o'clock if we want to continue on the three I need remove my motion or is it dead no second okay died for a second so are you amending the motion to 2 o'clock I'll I'll you can amend the you can do that yes I'll amend the motion to 2 o'cl seconded city clerk you feel pleased to a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner filtz yes commissioner asiki vice mayor lenen yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries we will recess to 105 Sharp gotta wake him up good get your heart going that's okay no uh I want what's on the Elmo okay oh there you go uh hello again uh Scott gilner with kimley Hornet associate civil engineer for the project I just want to hit on a couple things in my court so stormwater I know folks were reaching out I just want to put it back up on the screen um the storm motor vault is under the JW Marriott it's under the foundation there's a lot of space and distance to go before we ever get to the C Mark um it percolates into the ground it's a typical system we use with Swift Mud uh there is no issues that are going to be affecting the pool or any of that I understand what they're talking about with the issues that went down on bradder County that's a much different engineering thing but for the record this storm water vault is not going to affect the sea Mark and the pool as referenced um second topic was Telecom so if everybody remembers the Verizon network you know can you hear me or what whatever he walks around and can you hear me now can you hear me now or AT&T does it it's a network so I think the important thing to think about one Tower one thing affected it's actually all of these towers that work in a network system now not every tower has T-Mobile or metr PCS or Verizon or AT&T but it is a network and depending on which Tower you're talking about they have a a network that coverage is covering from different areas so these are actually Towers we pulled from FCC and put them into a ring as you look at St Pete Beach but the point being is not one single Tower actually affects you know the whole city it is done with a network as we're showing here can you tell me excuse me just in case you know can you tell me where that Tower uh the tower on the middle like by the Bayway down the one by the Bayway yeah you had your finger go to the left left there actually on the are it is on the da and then Isel Soul as you're going towards um I believe it's when you're going just it's it's on your way to Fort tooto you actually turn in one of the kind of the maintenance maintenance driv and is it okay that I ask a question another question I don't sure um did you did you get this in consultation with someone or you just pulled an image of where the signal is and the reason why I'm asking is I see the Don and then I see where the C Mark I guess possibly is and the trade ones I know has one as well but um I mean if you look at the circles and how they they cross each other there will be a section possibly that's dead per se with I'm not I don't know if I'm using the appropriate word but um that might not cover if there is some kind of barrier right I I I don't think the Rings are intended to be coverage per se because um they have angles or sectors as you're looking at cell phone towers and so different sectors are kind of put in different directions for coverage but this was just generally here's a ring as you drop it you start to see coverage as it overlaps um and they may not be for the same provider so if they cross so one might have AT&T and then you might skip two or three to get to the next AT&T as you go and they bounce off of other towers as well because I know there's we've been seeing them pop up around the city like the white smaller Tower small cell that gets add additional bandwidth yep exactly but again it's it's a network it's not just one I think that's the important point we're pointing out here oh and I'm sorry and and the condition still stands so we're in agreement with the condition as it exists um so there is already a condition written by staff uh regarding C Mark as part of that regarding C Mark yeah C Mark raised the concern so there's a condition in there regarding C to address the Telecommunications you mean correct specifically it requires that we give a signed opinion of a te Telecom Communications engineer pertaining to the signal quality that's important at site plan approval because this can change over time right first so last piece again I think is just referencing the sea turtles so as we were having the discussion you know a couple things came up one the conditions I think from December 5th those are for conditions that if we get approved for sea turtles and how we'd had to go through the FD P 3cl permit process which includes an FWC review for sea turtles when we first had a preat meeting then when I got involved in the project the city referenced that we had an issue that we were not compliant with the city ordinance right now the owner immediately said well how do we get in in compliance and his staff has been working with the city on multiple occasions to go and do that I don't think we're compliant right now I don't think we're arguing that but we're not necessarily sure how to get compliant so in the last comment I made I think in our original uh you know presentation is we would like to meet with the city and also walk with uh I believe the woman's last name was Reich or re right and and walk through what what we're missing and what we're not seeing the couple things they have done is they've changed the lighting that was identified the first time they did it they lowered it to a wattage but I don't believe it was the correct wattage it was an Amber they went back and did it again they also put put film on the sliding glass doors the sliding glass doors that were identified I think 45% transmiss transmissivity I'm going transmission light is allowable um I think they went to 27% is what they told me so we're trying to do it but it's going to be an iterative process and we'd like to walk with them happy to have that as a condition thank you all right uh Becca bond with kimley horn Transportation engineer for this project all right so I want to start by reiterating that the city's traffic engineering consultant reviewed and approved our analysis and found that it met the requirements of the city of St Pete Beach code I also have do a document to submit into the record which responds to the comments made by Mr roor regarding the serata traffic study we weren't sure that this was necessary um to submit into the record because it did not affect the outcome of our analysis but we would like to respond to his testimony now that it has been given and I will go it through and address his comments in the following slides so one of the first comments that he made was about our distribution and how it was related to the faciamus output so I want to start by saying as I mentioned earlier in reality the distribution does not matter in this case uh for the roadway Capacity Analysis um as shown on this slide um in the table we distributed 100% of the project traffic along each of the study roadway segments and all of them are still um operating below capacity and um at an acceptable level of service additionally the faimus model used was according to Industry standards and the distribution was utilized in the analysis was approved by the city's traffic engineer next I want to jump into the peak hour comparisons so we heard about how um the city of St Pete Beach is you know a little bit different than some other communities where the peak might not be that 7 to9 or that 4 to 6 p.m. um so I wanted to firstly address that um we looked at fdot count data so they have count stations along um Gulf Boulevard where they have 24-hour counts and they do it for multiple days um when we reviewed this the highest peak hour which we seasonally adjusted just to make it Apples to Apples uh seasonally adjusted peak hour volume is still less than the noo volumes from the tables that we used in our roadway Capacity Analysis therefore the volumes that we used are the most conservative volumes that are present so while the do peak hour was um from I'm looking at one of them there was one that was at 3: there was one that was I believe closer to noon it didn't matter what hour of the day it was the no volumes were still higher so we were still using the more conservative volumes um therefore the outcome of the analysis did not change Additionally the reason why we used the standard AM and PM Peaks is because it's industry standard and because it's directly listed in the Ford pelis no traffic study methodology which is what is referenced in the city of St Pete Beach code when it comes to doing traffic analysis um this is where Mr work said it was the most important comment that he provided and he stated that uh uh the volumes used in our driveway analysis were not accurate he stated that we only used the net new that is not true um as you can see on this slide I've provided a breakdown and circled all the inbound trips um we how we did this was we had our net new trips which was the trip generation from the additional hotel rooms that you'll see on the site but we also collected those existing counts at the existing driveways which capture the volumes that are currently utilizing the site so what we did did with those volumes was based on the new site plan we redistributed those existing counts to the most likely driveway that they would use in the ultimate condition and added those on top of our net new so as I stated we did not just use the net new we use the net new plus the existing which is how the remainder of the study was analyzed and how that was approved by the city Additionally the outcome of that uh driveway analysis he alluded to our turn lane evaluation being incorrect so I want to also state that even if it did change the volumes did change it would not have affected our turn lanane evaluation at our project driveways one because there's an existing Center two-way left turn lane present along the front of our property and additionally um according to fdot's 2023 access management guide book it states that exclusive right turn Lanes should not be considered for C4 context classifications Gulf Boulevard is a C4 context classification So based on the characteristics of that roadway fdot does not want right exclusive right turn Lanes considered finally I'm going to touch on the updated capacity calculations so this is one of the comments that he did not address in his uh presentation today but he did bring up in the formal comment letter um this is regarding the use of 2020 uh standard roadway volume tables from do versus the 2023 version so there was a new 2023 document that I've referenced a few times in my presentation that was released in January of 2023 um the reason that we utilize the 2020 in our analysis is that was because that is the standard that uh Ford pelis no used to create their report and their level of service volumes so firstly um just to be conservative and to do a double check of the analysis we did update using the 2023 to check and they still do not exceed the service volumes on those roadway segments additionally um as we discussed earlier we did reach out to the no regarding the discrepancy with Pasadena Avenue um they provided us with an updated service volume so they provided us with a no just going to get a little into the weeds a two-way service volume standard of 3,5 80 for the two-way traffic however for our analysis based on the roadway tables they put together we did directional so if you were to compare it to what was in there before um this what provided a lower um service volume of 2,148 however as I said p uh Ford Panella no is still using those 2020s tables from dot as their standard reference so in order to be additionally conservative we updated it based on the new f do 2023 report and it still does not exceed capacity I also want to mention that uh Pasadena is not within the city of St Pete beat Beach's City Limits so it is technically outside of the jurisdiction but we wanted to provide this anyway because we knew there had been questions thank you Elise Batel for the record um I want to commend the experts because both the their experts and Miss Graham did a really good job with the facts that they had in this particular situation and what I mean by that is when you look at our code and our comp plan and hear what I'm about to say I would have approached it if I was on the other side exactly the same way that they did um first of all Miss Graham talks about a case and she says that the comp plan states that those regulations your comp plan regulations are about what to see in the future she's right that's what a comp plan does but your large resort District regulations from the comp plan are also codified in Your Land Development code and those are what we have to consider today so there's compant Provisions that are now codified in Your Land Development code I want to make that clear the second thing I'd like to say is with respect to Mr Go's testimony is it's important to think about what he said but it's also even more important to think about what he did not say he didn't say that the project is not consistent with the comprehensive plan he did not say that the project was not consistent with the Land Development code he also did not state that we do not meet our burden with respect to the cup criteria he also did not say that the character does not fit within the character District of the large resort District he car carefully chose the words that he said he's a licensed professional and I think that's very important for us to all think about there was also a reference to section 2.13 which relates to the city sha Brandon Barry has already testified about the view issues in 2.13 they direct the city to make Land Development regulations they're not for the commission to impose on specific projects if you read those in totality it's what does the city look at when they're making and administering land de development regulations completely different over um just really quickly with respect to community engagement um the community involvement under your code says that we have to hold a community meeting 30 days before an administrative approval that site plan approval you heard in the last hearing we had a two Community meetings already before the cup the city asked us to have one we had two so I just wanted to put that out there I also had um a voluntary Zoom I had phone conferences with several members that called me after these meetings I sent emails with specific responses to specific questions which are in your record um and I also sent a second followup because I said I would on the first and sent the updated site plan to the the neighbors who ask so there has been Community engagement and we were very available for anyone that wanted to ask questions and some people did I want to speak really quickly about Mr Barn's comments I would not want anything to change next to my house either next to my condominium I think we all understand where all these emotions are coming from from both sides both from the community from the developer this has been a really hard process um with respect to the sorry with respect to full integration I want to hit that one more time there is absolutely no question this is a fully integrated site under your code under the hotel industry standards this is how sites function your code talks about out the fact that one of the folks actually said when these when these are subdivided they can be considered an integrated plan as long as you have an integrated site plan your code talks about that we're doing a unified site plan we're doing pedestrian connectivity we're having a master landscape plan and all of those are shared amenities that is what a fully integrated Resort is whether it's in three buildings one building or seven buildings it doesn't change based on the number of buildings or the number of hotels one last comment about views if you agree with how the C Mark has presented the views I want to just tell you again no one could redevelop in the community redevelopment District without the exact same footprint at the exact same height all of those other regulations would be meaningless and it's really important that you think about that um we know some people's views are going to be impacted it's contemplated that it's impacted because your own code says you got to look at proximity you got to look at Coastal Construction Control line those are the things that you know are going to happen when there's new development and your code thinks about how do you do that all right two or three of you ask in our meetings I think I I don't remember who ask what questions but what happens if we're not approved tonight um one of the Commissioners said are you going to make smaller hotels the other commissioner said are you going to eliminate a hotel there are there is too much economic investment with this particular property for the developer to go back and start from ground zero and do a new plan when they bought this property they looked at the Land Development regulations they looked at your large resort District the road map that we've been talking about from the very beginning of this process and they said man the city wants me to come they want me to build this here they had meetings with the city um they got you know great feedback from the city manager at the time and they moved forward with this project we even had meetings with all the Commissioners to begin with and overall at that time had really good feedback from from that Commission there is a huge economic issue here and if this cup does not go forward the the plan B is to develop under the Liv local act um the Liv local act from an economic standpoint makes the second most sense other than this cup no one that is not a plan a and that is not what they want to do but it's important for you to understand the effect of your vote on what will go there if this isn't approved um really quickly if you look at well let me explain because I'm not sure everybody understands the live local if you don't mind just so that everybody can hear me um the live local Act was passed in 2023 it's really sweeping affordable housing legislation that was sponsored and uh led by Senator pasido out of Naples and the idea was there were so many jurisdictions that did not want apartments and did not want a lot of residential coming into existing neighborhoods and so the cost and the affordability of homes has shot up all over the State of Florida we know that and the idea was we have to get these these these apartments and this additional housing in now so what the law says is that a local government if it's a qualifying project I'll tell you what that is in a minute that the local government must administratively approve the project if it is a qualifying project that means no City commission hearings no VAR no comp plans no resoning required it means the city has this is a preemption at the state level just generally you are you are permitted to develop at the highest intensity within the jurisdiction so that would be the large resort District at 2.6 F that's what you see here so right now our current proposal is 574 th000 terer minus square feet the Liv local act would permit 975,000 square feet of development um obviously this site has not been designed so we're going to have to figure out how that fits we did do some preliminary massing studies which if you want to see them we can certainly show them um but the setbacks these additional setbacks that we're providing I mean none of that is required as part of a live local act as long as we check the boxes under the ACT we go and the city is required to to issue us a permit um setbacks to the cccl you know could potentially be zero I'm not saying they would design it that way but I'm saying that is absolutely permitted under the live local act today um I do want to show this for the C perspective if you look at the the building this just shows what the massing of this next to the C mark would be without the additional setbacks at 30t up to 130 ft um just putting that in perspective as you consider your decision it's important you have to have all the facts before you move on I just want to make sure I because this I've heard the term live local act but I don't have much background on it so are you saying that would be open up to instead of Hotel Pat I'm sorry I forgot to describe qualifying project yeah please so there's two ways to develop under live local you can do completely residential or you could do mixed use we would do mixed use here I mean we we're far enough along that we know that we would choose a mixed use development um it makes more economic sense for this particular property it says that if you're developing a mixed use project 65% of your square footage has to be devoted towards residential the other 35% can be commercial or whatever else whatever else qualifies as mixed juice right and mix juice is a pretty Brad term so we would contemplate doing Hotel retail I mean that isn't all worked out yet but you have to have 65% residential now of that 65% that is designated space towards residential 40% has to be um affordable housing and when I say affordable I don't mean Section 8 housing so I want to make that clear the statute basically defines afford ability as 125 I'm sorry 120% Ami or less so it could be affordable but it also can be what we consider Workforce housing a little more attainable housing now the the law requires that you keep that affordable for 30 years so so part of the reason you have to add more units is be more units and more square footage is because you've got to restrict those units over the course of 40 years and therefore you've got to make that amount up in rent Market rent in other ways in the project so that's kind of how the economics work um did that answer your question yes just just to be fair um the city has not analyzed whether or not um I mean they did their own numbers those are those are their numbers the city has not evaluated um how the live local act would uh apply to the site that's their those are theirs that's their analysis we are currently just and and it's really not a criteria for evaluating the cup she's just basically giving you a list of one horrible well just it does affect the decision because when you're talking about whether to approve this or not not having this information that directly affects the decisions that you're making I think is important information to have before you then maybe yeah you should continue everything and then let staff work out the numbers yep because I mean staff has not you know evaluated whether or not what what the impact is of the live local on this site if there is one I'm just letting you know those are hers shall I continue please so we know sort of of the box right the parameters that we're in with respect to what to consider um someone talked about an economic benefit your your consideration tonight is not to make a decision about what kind of economic benefit will have what kind of economic benefit this project will have on the community we provided that information there's information in the record but that's not part of the criteria and if there's a desire for us to submit economic studies or Tax St studies you can go in and change your regulations again to sort of require those but those things aren't required um which is why we haven't provided them your consideration tonight is also not to determine whether this project is sensible based on sea level projections I know that Mr gotier was very concerned about sea level rise again that's more of a Citywide study that you would look at to say hey do we need to change our regulations to figure out if our regulations really consider sea level rise again another legislative decision um we've really made extraordinary efforts to get people off the road um and but again you know the question becomes from a transportation system perspective and public health safety and Welfare perspective have we gone above and beyond and we believe that through site planning and all of the other public benefits the the monetary contributions that we make we believe that we have met that criteria so St Pete Beach is a very special place I think all of you understand that you live here I've said this before in other public hearings I own a small piece of a business here and that's a purposeful investment um and so much of the economy at least for our small businesses really does rely on the tourism industry um that revitalization of this large resort District we need the tourists to come in but the facts before you tonight are really simple the Land Development regulations provide a road map a road map for property owners developing within the large resort District setting forth setbacks Heights and intensities and parameters for development the Land Development regulations clearly Define the character of each of the districts within the Gulf Boulevard Redevelopment District including the gulf I'm sorry including large resort it's getting late the sarata Redevelopment proposal is not the tallest and it's not the most intense development that exists today in the large resort District you've heard expert testimony from our expert team and the city's experts including Architects planners civil engineers Traffic Engineers that the proposed project in their expert opinion meets the criteria in 4.4 and 4.12 as applicable fact the applicant has agreed to a number of additional conditions requested by the city that provide a multitude of benefits not just Financial benefits but also benefits to the community Through additional public beach access additional payments and Etc you you saw the community benefit list our experts provided testimony that the public health safety and Welfare is actually going to be approved in a number of ways after this development including beach access significant storm water benefits complete restoration of the Dune system and aligned access points to name a few we have clearly demonstrated that St Pete Beach simply cannot turn into clearw or Marco Island or Panama City Beach as suggested by the opposition the young family develops and owns hotels throughout the world um they also see St Pete Beach as a place for investment and a crown jewel so to speak I think someone used those words they want to revitalize the serata development in a way that continues to invest in the community that's real I've talked to them I mean you hear their frustration tonight but I have talked to them over the past year and a half and they believe this is is a great place to reinvest they believe in this community and they really think that the serata Redevelopment can be great not just for them but for the community and for their neighbors I think what we can all agree is that the large resort needs a little bit of TLC particularly these older rundown hotels and we would really like to be the first project to come in and show you what that TLC looks like thank you for listening so intensely for so many hours and asking so many important questions um we are absolutely available to answer any additional questions that you have in case anything comes up um thank you so much for your time oh I'm sorry I forgot to read something we asked if you we talked about the architectural condition which we drafted um for your consideration uh we did ask Brandon if if if this was implementable right because we want something that's objective that staff can look at and yes this meets the criteria or it doesn't this is just for your consideration we did the best we could proposed condition to address building style and flow between the three hotels we it's a requirement to incorporate a consistent design theme which may include but not limited to exterior paint color schemes or similar cont complimentary elements on Hotel one the serata hotel and hotel 3 that was an effort to tie this together from a visual perspective to modernize the architecture of the S by updating the current trim removal of Manards and other roof details to create a cleaner and more moderate appearance including proposed poret including the proposed poret um again different styles these are more modern so the idea would to be to do as much as you can with an old building to make it look more modern and tie it in more consistently and number three um she require plan front of hotel 3 garage kind to match Hotel one that was one of the things that we' one of the renderings that we showed you with sides that had screening but again we can tweak this in any way that you want but um and so that would be the proposed condition thank you thank you I forgot about that and we'll email this to the clerk so that she has just do you want me to leave this that is already a requirement thank you again for your time thank you City attorney does that conclude the quasa judicial aspect of this meeting or yes at this point your um your options are to deliberate um amongst yourself if you have other questions you can ask them of you know staff or their experts but um this would be where you um basically you know Talk Amongst yourselves about what what it is uh you want to do with this application mayor if I may in in the spirit of managing expectations here I still have a number of things I'd like to talk about ask questions too that this alone would go well past 2 o' so okay that's just what I have okay I'm sure I do too I'm sure we all do should we start and stop I I don't think there's any point in in starting and stopping it's weer keep going until 4 5 6 a.m. or we ad I think those are our options is if if I may are there um and and I may have misunderstood commissioner Phil's um statement do you have questions for the applicant that you think will go well beyond 2 am yes that will lead to conversations I think I think they're probably questions some of you have you know so just just to clarify so you still have questions for the applicants correct okay well I think if that's the case we need to get him out I almost said tonight this morning because otherwise it's going to extend another day we're going to have to drag everybody out here again to to get the whole the whole group together so if you got qu I don't have many more questions personally so I've got all my questions answered I've got a lot of thoughts to share um so I don't know the other Commissioners if you have a lot of questions time wise but I say let's let's get rolling with them if that's the case I I wouldn't say I have questions to um experts but it's more um you know for for the owner I guess could make the decisions um same maybe that's Ro till three keep it rolling I'm I'm inclined to adjourn it's it's been 10 hours it's getting to the point where I mean just a thought I've already stated I don't have any more questions maybe we go down each commissioner and say I I don't have any more questions for the applicant I have plenty of thoughts to share for the commission but I I don't have any further questions all right I'll start sorry to interrupt almost all of our experts not all but many people have flown in from out of town so if there would be any way possible to finish the questions of the development team and the experts we would greatly appreciate it we've been here multiple times and we would greatly appreciate it okay ask away yeah I mean I think most my questions are for the owner to be fair if he's willing the owner if they're willing would you please come forward all right residents parking allowing to allowing residents to park in the garage during storms um not to get too far into it but you know I know there's some issue with some neighborhoods here that flood and residents have nowhere to park their car no we discussed that no we already said it was fine okay but let me take that back I think we discussed at the last meeting where you weren't here so yeah I remember okay sorry about that but in the form of a condition would it be or for the record how dare you it's hard to do that without water yeah to be honest with you I don't mind if it's a condition um but I I mean we're up to 40 conditions I mean at some point um I I I think yeah I better let her talk um just so this is included the city actually asked for the same thing so we for emergency ve Vehicles so if you're going to condition this we should include that as there's going to be some reserve space for the city um and the City emergency vehicles we've already agreed to that but obviously we want to put those needs because they're fire rescue and and sure just want to put that on the record I know of residents who go downtown St P to park their cars during storm storm threats so um I'm assuming you have a generator for the hotel absolutely yeah okay so I know during Hurricane Irma some residents um lost power in in their houses and you know I not sure how to ask this question but will the hotel if it's a question of the hotel being open I guess during a storm what that would look like and you know cuz Elise you commented on with storms having somewhere to come back to so I trying to piece that together what that means exactly so we we can talk through this but one of their require County requirements and then City requirements that we have to put together a plan and there's mandatory evacuation and closure requirements Brandon probably remembers those exactly better than I do but I think we I think that the wide plan requires us to close completely to get people out I I I'm telling you that from memory um and then there there's s the condition that we have to comply with that so just want to keep that in mind as we have that discussion too thank you yeah and practically speaking what happens is everybody leaves but about four of our people um and we've been through probably 10 hurricanes at various hotels in the Caribbean Florida up the East Coast so everybody leaves and it's usually The Weather Channel um and uh my people the next day we start sending people back FEMA starts sending people down they stay with us typically becau because we have a full generator we have power so um FEMA will come in and then as soon as people are allowed to come in assuming there's no damage to the hotel they they can come in they can stay okay um and then again the remodeling plan for current serata to blend in the condition touched on that a little bit um yes beach toys on the beach are there plans there for like you know the trade has a slide out absolutely not yeah that's not my customer no I'm happy to you know have a condition that says I can't have that okay what about uh transport I'll call them toys scooters electric scooter rentals that type of thing uh to be honest with you I'm not the I think they're kind of losing favor right now I I I think people have found that they they're very dangerous they end up scattered all over the place so I I I'm pretty happy to to ban them if that's what you're asking me to do or you might be asking me to have them no no yeah person I'd be against them I think very dangerous yeah I I agree with you 100% yeah so I'm happy to say that that that they won't be rented from my facility I can't guarantee you they won't come there but they they won't start there okay thanks um so a portion of the garage will be available for public parking or no you're in a storm no no just in general well sure yeah yeah is is there somewhere generally all those garages right they're for the facility but people come to all the amenities they might come to dinner or lunch or so yeah it's in public garage okay um resident discount program I don't know if we locked something in as far as a percentage and a form of of that so the way I've answered that in the past is there are times when I am happy to get very aggressive on a discount to get people to come in there are other times when I I I'm not as aggressive with that so just to say that there is this discount would kind of be a um a disservice to the potential local customers but you know what we we've been talking about this for a year and a half you have to Define to me what a resident is because anybody who comes in who just says I live here well I can't leave it up to bartenders to give them a discount because now all of a sudden everybody lives here right so yeah you know we've asked the city to Define what is a resident I driver's license is what I would say but I understand I'm happy to Define it as somebody who has a local excuse me local driver's license I think there's some people here who live here part of the year who don't have a local driver's license who may not be happy with that okay so yeah yeah it gets to be kind of a and then as far as the discount program itself I mean can we put in a a range of percentage I mean on the condition I'm happy to say something between five and 25% saying you youo during time periods yeah I look it'd be food and beverage you know Beach Rentals yeah things that locals would use at the property okay um another thing I don't know if it's been brought up to you or not I don't think in the last meeting it was but we have had this year we had it it's my understanding it was the last year the S Beach Classic which is a race out here um I'm sorry iot is this with Mr Johnson and and you have to win start training that's with Mr Johnson I I believe he was the chairman of it yep yep so yeah yeah so so I talked to him he actually told me this was the last year he was going to do it happy to cooperate on that however we can okay Y and from what I've heard I comped all his liquor this year from from what I've well everybody okay from what I've heard the two reasons it's not going on is one the loss of a big corporate sponsor I don't know with your relationship with Marriott if that's a possibility um and then the other piece was a place to have it um so yeah I mean we're happy to co I mean obviously during construction things get a little you know tight but yeah no we're happy to be part of that okay um and I bring up these things you know is if this does get passed I you're going to be a part of a community part of a community where these hotels as people have mentioned were largely owned by people who were in The Who live in the community or who have been a part of the community sure then the other question um mentioned walking with Lisa Reich to get compliant with the sea turtles I mean can we make that a condition so so here's what I don't understand because in the year I've been here we have been dealing with Pete doer on this issue and then she came up and I I don't understand the relationship there because we thought we were doing everything right with him and and then I I was forwarded a report today that came from last night that says oh no no you're not in compliance so we thought we were doing everything right with him I don't know how she relates to the city I deferred to the city on that I I suppose I just I think it's an important thing yeah we do too if we talk about setting precedence you know I think that's and we thought we were I mean we filmed all the glasses I and I think she contended that we didn't but our our general manager is here he can tell you everything that we've done in the last say eight months on that with Pete okay and then Nick just because you're mentioning that I just want to say you know I because I was trying to do a little bit of research on the process that the city the city currently and and maybe um Mr Sanders could explain it but has a process um in place so I wouldn't want to set a condition when the city already has a process in place I'm not going to say whether it's a great process or not a great process and maybe we got to tweak something and involve others but in conversation with Pete um I know there's a process okay um and then the the planners are these real plants on the garages CU my concerns with the upkeep absolutely my concerns would be with the upkeep but I mean you you Plum um irrigation to them yeah and there's actually a condition sorry right I yeah I I saw yeah I know the condition sorry I didn't me to scare you there's actually a condition regarding the maintenance so like we are required as to to keep those maintained and or replace them if the die okay thank you thank you very much y good we got five minutes till two any other questions for the applicant um we I have questions um to me this is a a real important thing for the the city over own and I've read the comp plan I've gone through Land Development code participated in many um different things in the in the city overall um and this is a feeling and observation that you're you're not aware of but um I participated in the Don csar um Ballroom expansion from I'm in the neighborhood for the Don csar subdivision and I can I could honestly say that the experience I had working with ad Don was very different and and I'm not saying what's right or what's wrong but hearing so many um residents and so much discourse makes me feel something went wrong along the way right we we argued I'm not going to say everything was great with Adon we we didn't agree with everything but at the end we came to a compromise right we we um there will be people out there that say well I still don't want it I didn't want it it blocked my view we had the same same discussions um but there was a compromise so I'm I'm hoping to talk a little bit to see overall the feel but this is you know I want you to go with that frame of mind it's to to come to a compromise because this is the large resort District right and we have a character district and when you read the com plan and what the planning of the city was was you know we want to create something that says and I used the word wow um earlier um that says wow right that that we're doing everything possible um to help the city in many ways right we know there's going to be problems we know there's traffic you know we want we want solutions for mitigation to that we want you know on a a vision of green right um I personally would like more of that in in the hotel you have opportunities right you have a rooftop um on the garage that has mechanical let's just say things making it green you know there's a lot of hotels that are doing this now and I feel like it helps you overall too with certification right when you say green do you mean color or making it more Environmental Landscape to reduce the hot the hot spot you know in in the the what do they call it the heat um heat island or something heat island that's that's the correct word um because it's an opportunity because you're going to set a mark on any future development right um I mentioned connectivity in the hotel because even though I saw the sidewalks and I appreciate the different colors and everything but we have a great opportunity in the back I think it's a big plus that we're willing um to bring back the Dooms um because obviously we're taking out some you know because you're building to the Coastal Construction line you know keep you know let's just be on we're getting close yes we're getting close Okay but we're not where we are today so with that um I I saw the the plan that you had up a little while ago I think it said 15 foot um walkover so but I want it specifics on um on the plan because I I don't see the specifics on the depth of the Dune the protection of the Dune um the structure because I know we focused on the fire you know um for fire vehicles you know to go over um but then knowing too that the city has a vision of a boardwalk again to helping residents for safety right if I had the opportunity to walk along the shore in a protected environment away from gol Boulevard what great opportunity for you as an owner of hotel to show what it would look like we think that's a great idea we recommended it with staff and to that point I think we have dedicated 15 ft yeah I know you and and I think to my point is I know you're DED ating it but to my point is to invest in it because I'm willing to build mine it's got to connect to somewhere I think it's got to Connected somewhere but I lived in a in a city in a in a Beach town that it had to start somewhere right um because there are potential other build outs that are coming out um again trying to improve what the vision of of the city was right um safety views I mean who wouldn't want to walk um along the shore sorry to interrupt mayor if I may it's 159 all motion to extend to 2:30 a.m. a second city clerk commissioner as Niki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner marott yes commissioner filtz yes mayor patella no motion carries 42 one um I'm willing to build mod another thing that I was saying too is again we talk about permeability of the ground there's there's materials that can be used like in the walkways that were talking about all the the connectivity within you know less concrete less asphalt um semi-permeable I mean there's a lot of other options that can be used again to reduce that heat island um make it more permeable um improving storm water these are the things the city overall has to be thinking of about because we all know and I know I live in a neighborhood that floods needs to have more resiliency right um and we're hearing that word a lot um you know so I wish there was more you know because I wanted that wow you know I I I am still um I still don't want three curve Cuts I I I'm super concerned about that because for a long time we didn't have three usable let's say daily usable you know we had some discussion about well make one auxiliary so that you could come in um I think you would hear from the fire department if you didn't have three well well I mean we the 15 foot you know for them and the axis I mean that could still be there I mean I'm not here to design it for you obviously but what what I'm saying is I want to minimize the impact to the neighbor um is it possible you know and even if we had that condition to look back again about the architecture can the entrance be moved um into ially I'm saying I'm just I'm just throwing it out there I'm not telling you any I'm not telling you what to do I did not where the entrances were no I know but you you would have to have this discussion I know you won't be able to do this tonight right you know um um and also um having that the 30 the 30 foot buffer you know if you were able to redesign this to um and I hate to say redesign because it makes it sound like the whole building but the entrance then the neighbor again helped minimize what they see right we all know they're going to see a building If This Were to be um approved they see one now they see one now but not at the intensity that they will see if it was if was built so um to reduce as much as possible the concern for when I was there one day and by coincidence it was pretty bad and I myself if I was the owner I probably would want to think of can my guest actually open the door I it was hard for me when I went there to go visit I was like wow they weren't kidding you know there there's there is strong Breeze um to complete that study just to alleviate um let me just finish a second so that you can kind of hear what I'm trying to say is trying to really listen to what people are you know people are concerned about the Telecommunications I think the one thing that they you know we can say that it will work maybe but the concern of their income that they're receiving on a monthly basis that subsidized whatever it may be at C Mark um you know those things are important to them um and and those you know some things that I think that maybe we we could do better so if I can answer the wind study I called the same people that did the wind study surprisingly I think they're in Denver Colorado but that did the wind study for the trade trade wins because they said just use them they everybody was happy with that study I called them when I gave them the situation they started laughing they said you got to be kidding me people really think that adding three floors to this building I is going to create an effect that's not there right now and they they did all their analysis on a desktop and they they wrote me that letter at a high price so look I'm not willing to build boxes put them in a um um air tunnel and then analyze the smoke that goes through there that I I I think because one person asks for it it doesn't be become gospel I have an engineer that has said it's not an issue you have a resident who says I think it might be so yeah I I'm just not willing to do that as far as the cell tower never had this come up before I I mean and I I probably have 30 hotels that have cell towers on them like they say it's a network they all work together nobody's taking their cell their their Tower off their building because I'm next to them they haven't you know evidenced that to you that they they haven't even called their supplier and said if they build this building will you tell us that yours isn't going to work as well that wouldn't have cost them anything anything so yeah I know they don't want it there but this is what your plan says and I've tried to work with them they were the first meeting I had down here and like I said up until tonight I thought we had a good relationship so yeah yeah uh there whatever you do I don't think they're satisfied they don't want anything there they want to look all the way over my sight so they can see the sunset but that's not what you get you want to discuss whether we're gonna keep discussing or not I don't do you have any fur questions for the did you no mayor HD it on the head we don't have any further questions for the applicant I think we should reconvene to next Tuesday I think we've got a light schedule you just don't want to decide do you I mean you're the only one who voted no on on extending this wow I I've got a fortune sitting here and this is the second time I've had a fortune sitting here I said if they have no more questions for you because the next part doesn't actually include you it's a deliberation between the commission but it's a public deliberation right course it is absolutely it is but no one's going to be asking questions so none of your experts have to be here so it was actually done with you in mind and then we can also get an answer on the live live local I think we can look into that as well yeah um get answers on that work with Brandon and his and the rest of the team over there to verify the numbers I want to clar I'm not sure where I'm at right now on this thing or not me where we're at so are we saying as a group of Commissioners that we're done asking questions and now we're moving into Liberation phase or are we asking staff to do more studies where we have to bring everybody back again no they're just verifying the you're just verifying the ACT okay so we're not we're not requesting everybody to come back if we if this gets not continued yeah if we continue just the deliberation part adjourn exactly thank you that's it all right so if I'm understanding correctly mayor you want confirmation from City staff on the possibility of the live local act well I think and then we'll talk well I don't NE I don't necessarily want information or need information on the live local act but I think if we are going to adjourn it would be prudent to get that information if we if we can yeah the only reason I brought it up is because they brought it up and they're saying that if we don't get approved this is what we may do and I don't know why that had to become part of the conversation but I guess that's their choice that I would like at least staff to be able to confirm what they put in the record because they clearly have presented that to you as the option b does anybody else have any um availability to meet prior to next Tuesday just while things are all very fresh in our minds I'm available tomorrow afternoon Friday afternoon I I am as well Monday afternoon I'll be totally transparent um I have a full day of work tomorrow I canot do tomorrow Friday would I have to contact people to not get too much into my personal business I have to contact people rearrange stuff it's possible I could do Friday maybe I was looking at my schedule during the last break maybe between 9:00 and 11:00 a.m. if not after that I'm going out of town to visit my father-in-law for the weekend and I won't be back until Tuesday right before the commission meeting a full transparency yeah and I personally can't be here I mean and I don't think that we could get any you know I don't I don't want to promise any um analysis of the live local act um between now and tomorrow well yeah I don't think a lot hinges on that I'm kind of thinking that's just to me that's a small issue that somebody could research well okay it's not small it's potential impact but I don't think well I don't want to speak for everybody but I don't think a lot of us are sitting here going if we don't have the answers to that we can't continue I mean that could be a staff report look into it and email us do we have to have a hearing I before that's yeah that's what I'm saying yeah in other words they could do the staff report and email to us right now and question for the City attorney just so I understand we're making we're making a decision based on the criteria that a potential Plan B is not part of that's that's that was my point is I don't I don't they chose to bring it up as I mean as for some reason it's not it's not part of the criteria um but you know I'm just telling you I just wanted to make it it clear that as far as I know staff has not evaluated what they put up on the screen as you know here's what you're going to get if we don't get approved mayor if I could add to that I don't think that issue should even be considered in considering your conditional use permit we don't know if it's possible at this like like City attorney has stated it I looked at it as a threat which I don't think yall should even consider you need to consider the what's requested in front of you which is this conditional use permit and make your decisions based on the criteria in our codes not something that may happen or may not happen in the future I agree all right so that puts us the point do we want to do deliberations now and take a vote or are we gonna punt to another day that's where we're at isn't it that is exactly where we're at and we have 19 minutes in which we could determine anything we think we can determine let me ask two questions before because it I remembered um because I spoke with Brendon and and uh and maybe you could help me too Andrew on this on the words that you used in the staff report that says um or said requests and I and I can't remember which ones we specifically we going over but that I would prefer that it said required because I it's some of them when I was reading them with you um and it's semantics for me as a teacher but request to me doesn't mean to require to do it so and and and they I think most of them say it that way and then the other thing that maybe someone else could just um because I know I mentioned or asked this in a in a conversation I think it was with the architect about um and I don't want to call it phasing because we're not we know we're not saying it's phasing everything is going to come but kind of like the order just so that we all know and understand like Hotel one or Sarat is being worked on right now I think that's what you all had told me then we're going into the dunes because we're getting the just like that breakdown that you guys gave me because I I thought that was pretty good to hear uh we did submit a construction phasing plan into the record we have we have that and it shows exactly what goes first just for that reason okay thank you I do remember us discussing the the difference between request and and shall and will and and the way that um terms are usually written in the resolution I I don't recall anything specifically in the resolution that if you if you give me a minute or two I can look through just to make sure okay can look at it while we're deciding the next few minutes here while we're while we're sitting here thinking about it um I've got a quick question that you may be able to answer Wayne um in respect to the um the impact fees that the applicant pays and the um particularly for uh sewer storm water and water and the um the the impact fees the hookup fees and then the the increase to the city or the the income to the city that comes you know into the city budget from from taxes and fees on those Services the portion that comes to the City versus the cost to the city of whatever increased strain on those services in your experience as a city manager and and with dealing with budgets of those sorts of things is that something that that typically like those pay for themselves I mean you know is the does the City come out net ahead net behind or net even on that sort of thing that's a difficult question I mean it's for years and years that question you know does growth pay for itself is always an issue this is a little different because it's Redevelopment uh impact fees have to be very specific and there's studies that have to be done uh that determines what what different impacts are on whatever it is whether it's your sewer or water whatever so there's very specific studies done on those to determine different types of impacts whether it's a single family home or a restaurant or a hotel and your impact fees then are adopted based on those impact fees and the the theory and in and in most cases in my experience of practice is that those impact fees are pretty accurate as far as what the impact is paying for the impact that that is produced by by that of that project so you know based on the impact fees I I think you know usually those cover cover your cost because you're you're looking at very specific things if it's sewer okay what are they going to impact how are they going to impact your we don't have a treatment plant but we have collection lines transmission lines pump stations and that's very specific and they determine the flows they determine the percentage of the flows and you just do the math so uh those impact fees I think are pretty accurate as far as covering their cost as far as general fund Services you know I know we're uh fourever your new and we're just going to be getting into our budget season soon but you'll see that we have our general fund that that handles things like our police and fire roads Recreation things like that and the main support for that is uh ADV valorum tax uh I don't have a specific number of what the new assessment would be for this project uh our uh the city's adorm rate is 3.15 so um I I can give you an example uh based on that I was just looking at that earlier for every for every hundred million of assessment um that's 350,000 $315,000 in taxes every year that the city would receive so I don't know what the new assessment would be for the improvements that they would be putting into this in this project but you know the the adval Orum taxes would be significant on an annual basis to cover those uh general fund type and I think Brandon's got some specific numbers on specifically impact fees I don't know if you did any projections on tax uh taxes or not Brandon T taxes was very general we really it it was really at the level of analysis that the city manager just gave if for you know based on $100,000 this is what we'd expect to collect in terms of assessed value um I did want to say that we the city did just very recently update its sewer connection fee its sewer impact fee so to speak um that was updated I believe two years ago so the numbers are very and they were performed by a firm with the intent of making sure that they they met the um the connection fees that that needed to be in place we do collect on behalf of the county for the multimodal fee that has it has been some time since they've updated that I know we've we've talked about um they're looking to update that fee it's at some point in the future for the multimodal but the sewer is very current and commissioner res Nikki I believe that request had to do with it was in the staff report um something that we asked the applicant to provide about the fountain um using the water saving features and all with that just as support the gr okay and and just for for you all it's because again focusing on making it green right um that certification um it it's something that I think as a city we want to PR remote all future development to do the same thing right um and and that's why we had quite a big discussion about upping I think it was a 35% um and I forgot that was the one for the water wasn't that um like why was it 35% why can't we go more again it just helps with whichever certification you all are are going for um for you as as a hotel or Resort and as well as for the city um meets our our plan um as well um which reminded me another one since Brendan came up I remember talking about this um when we were talking about Landscaping before and and knowing that we couldn't get enough shade on the sidewalk on the front Ed because of utilities um that will possibly be still close within that 10- foot um sidewalk but um when I was talking with the staff we came up with like well there's other Alternatives right we can use Planters um with you know palm trees or um uh or artificial canopies right there I mean I seen them in other cities um again this is all part of that how it will look so i' have to see it but that there were other options because if we want to promote people to walk safely protected from weather from Sun um again being that big example to everybody else what we would want the city to look like and and again I don't know how we would work through that but that's kind of the stuff that we were all talking about mayor if I could add one one more comment to uh commissioner Marriott's question uh I don't think I directly answered your question but in my you ask in my experience and I have worked in very rapid developing areas and in my experience especially large developments large projects have contributed their share of the cost and actually uh provided more than their share of additional cost to provide the services in in many cases thank you commissioner res Nikki I just wanted to say with the with the canopies um next to the sidewalk there's a requirement the applicant provide public facing amenities I believe currently they're showing um trash cans and benches to meet that qualification but I could they be changed you know like altered to something else because who was going to sit on a bench if you don't have no shade right um a a cover from the elements is one of the options so that could just be directed based on the city's code well team I think we're rapidly approaching our 230 Target um is maybe it's good time to decide if we're done with questions and if we're going to move into deliberation phase now or reschedule adjourn and reschedule it I've got a question uh commissioner res Nikki brought up earlier the regarding the 100,000 per year for 5 years about potentially increasing it could it be increased to 10 years is well we can uh that that was a a number that we I I I don't want to say negotiated it wasn't a negotiated number the U the original request by the previous administration was I think about a third of that if I if I remember correctly and uh we just thought there should be more but just keep in mind this is in additional to the transportation impact fees that they're paying and this can be used initially it was said to help fund freebie but we restructured that it could be used for any any uh multimodal type uh issue that we may have uh which is a very broad range of things so uh just keep in mind that you know that's that's a half a million dollars in addition to the impact fees but that number could be changed and that was a number that we discussed with the applicant and they were willing to to place I think originally it was two years 125,000 for two years uh but to answer your question uh you know that could certainly be could be considered to be changed so I think the question is if we are all prepared to deliberate amongst ourselves without any requirement on the applicant that they be available to respond to questions do we all feel like our questions have been adequately answered so that we won't be depriving them of any ability to respond yes so yep so if that's the case I think I understand from the mayor that you're done this you you guys for this evening you want to vote I'll stay until you all vote so I mean I think it's been 10 and a half hours I think we would be much better serf to approach this fresh with adequate time um I mean I know we you have limitations to how late you can stay today morning to work when I get back this morning so I'm not going to bed so have to make up time and I do have to wake up early to take my daughter to school so yeah so mayor can I can I add something I think it's going to take you some time uh I mean obviously your deliberation but from what I've heard there's probably some changes to some of the conditions or maybe some additional conditions uh that I've heard some of you make uh and so that will take some time once we hear that and the staff hears that we'll have to have some you know a recess for a few minutes to come up the exact language to to bring back to you so it is going to take some time uh once youall deliberate unless you're just ready to say yes uh you know we'll go forward exactly how the conditions are written but uh you know that's not what I heard I heard there may be some changes to the conditions so it is going to take you some all some time to get through this next deliberation uh process to get to the point of a motion I just want make make you all aware of that so so we are talking about some some time so what's our schedule look like for we do have a very light very light meeting uh next Tuesday we only have one action item uh so uh and there's a couple of discussion items that are that are minor so that's a very short agenda for next Tuesday night uh we could meet earlier we could meet at 4: uh and have a couple of hour oh I'm sorry you I'm traveling that day and I've left a buffer but I want to be here I don't want if I miss a flight because I have a layover and well we could we could add that to the next Tuesday's agenda uh if that's what you'd like to do or we could move to another night that next week uh be up to you commission I think we're already all planning on being there on Tuesday that would and commission not available before Tuesday so it doesn't we could certainly just add that to next Tuesday night's agenda mayor I've got a question for Council applicants counil um if we adjourn and it's added to our agenda who will be here from your side I will that as a our agenda on Tuesday um I guess the question is it sounds like your crafting conditions if there's going to be requests for things that need ownership approval we need to coordinate with their schedule as well I mean I think we Zoom okay for you like if you're if you're not able to travel that you can come on cuz we've done it before here at meetings oh I didn't realize that yeah be on zo because it sounds like you're not going to need our experts you're just going to need ownership and then us to craft I'm sure you'll need the experts later but you know I don't think for questions we'll we'll make the Tuesday work so can I ask a question about the the meeting itself for next week on Tuesday does it um we add it to the agenda or can we have the you said it was light can we have the commission meeting end the commission meeting and then start this because you know how people wait to the end I mean maybe people will stay you know um we have public comments or you know is there a break and a stop like do we end one meeting before going to the other just so that the public knows how it would I mean you've closed the public hearing portion of this particular yeah I'm just saying for the commission meeting can we just make it the meeting is the other is a single issue for Tuesday transferable can we push it back yeah we can set the meeting and we could make this the first action item on Tuesday night's agenda okay and because the other item uh I believe is an internal item uh for next Tuesday that we could we could probably push it I if I remember correctly what that item is for next Tuesday can the agenda oh that's right but I was looking at it today but but I think I'm pretty sure we could have this continued as the first action item next Tuesday if that's what You' like and and just to clarify that would be deliberation not another couple hours of questions right we're not bringing everybody back in again no no okay great we've got one minute by the way there's no public comments there won't be anything else to motion for minutes more but no questions from the commission to their experts no okay we can just have a motion to adjourn to the say date certain just 6 pm on Tuesday would you like to make a motion motion to adjourn a motion to adjourn second Tuesday wait to continue this item continue this item on Tuesday 6 p.m right seconded City Clerk please do a roll call a roll call we um I motion for um a first to to um continue this till see I'm like next Tuesday next Tuesday I don't know the date so 27th 27th at 6 6 p.m. and luren in second and then we just need a roll call okay it's okay no it's like um commissioner marott yes commissioner philps yes commissioner is Nikki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes mayor patrill yes motion carries we are adjourned