5 going okay call order do you need to do a uh I guess we need to do a roll call right pledge of allegiances okay I'm not I'm not reading it I'll Stand a Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible of liy and justice for all roll call please member Hurley present member young here chair Lowry yes we have a COR okay we have a work shop meeting today and Tera I see is visiting us via satellite that's good and uh so to start with I guess we get right to the discussion items you have been talking about the LDC division 4 community redevelopment District 8th Avenue so Tara I know you weren't here last time when we had some of the conversation do you want to go ahead and get us started on where we should be yeah I um I watched so good afternoon U thank you for accommodating U my schedule today um wasn't able to get there on had some bookend meetings but um I listened to um the meeting the hour and a half meeting and I um I believe that there were three kind of uh subjects that were discussed most of those probably don't need Clarity um I'm going to say the most um about um question for last because I I don't want to eat into the time um but here are the things that I believe you wanted some information was explain the overlay the difference of the overlay the crde A and um why is one an overlay and why isn't some included and talking about the boundary um the other uh some other things are pretty easy um there was some uh clarifying Design Elements um updating the purpose and intent um talking about storefront character and um going to the height for 25 ft include U that would be um without the BF and then there was some discussion on the rooftop activity and whether you want to prohibit that or not so I think those are the big items that I heard being discussed that maybe wasn't a resolution um so believe it or not I even had to remind myself but we went through the crde EA um a time before and I already had notes on comments from you all and one of the comments was purpose and intent so I already have that comment so I will be addressing that as previously requested just to to have a purpose and intent that has a little bit more um the um so clarifying the design elements I can answer the question of what it can't be is if everybody wants to know it's fine um what I will say is that passive grill passive grills overnight had these standards in them and we be um because of some of the legislative issues with design that are kind of being mold around in the state um internally we decided to use the same design criteria that P Grill had and you know apply it also to the cdea so um both of these um categories are in both documents um the canopy is um so there's really three kind of different I don't know if I can share this I don't know if I have permission to do that but we'll see oh yes okay all right so a canopy um a canopy is something that extends a little bit farther out that canopies are used sometimes governments say awnings um um an arcade or sorry an awning is um is can be one of these structures and then and the bottom one that has the tiffan company that's a marquee and and most of it has to do with material choice but um in in the architectural World a canopy is really something that can protect you from a walkway it can extend so some canopies can extend far far out um now uh that that's pretty much kind of the definitions of what those are now if I were um you all I would I would be questioning why canop be and why weren't there other standards of onig and mares as a good question I don't know um I don't know why we didn't do it back then um you know is the canopy relevant maybe not um so a couple of things that we could do is we can um so in in a traditional historic tense the defined category of a canopy requires it to be 5T is um you can't relate a canopy in a residential building the same way so these are really for non-residential terms it for a canopy for that but what I would what I would kind of suggest is me um instead of so we can do two things we can we can strip all the design elements out again we can make updates which I'm not sure from a legal perspective the reason why we were going to just take and mirror what was in pive Grill we have a good argument of why we need to apply them if we start messing around with them it becomes a little bit more of a challenge which I'm up for challenge um but what I would say if you wanted a softer approach you would keep everything intact I would include an additional um statement that said alternative designs may be considered by the historic preservation board and then I would rely on the design book to give you that flexibility so that that would be my um recommendation but I'm happy to have a conversation on any of it um but that's kind of the the why I have a question about it if our goal is to achieve the arcade style which is the existing style why would we open the avenue to other things other than if we wanted to open it for awnings on upper floors and is there a way that we can concentrate on that to try and keep the the basic structure or basic build style similar to the old style yeah yeah yeah um yeah absolutely um you know like I said um it was a default from P Grill and I I mean I heard that in the in the discussion of the arcade right now I don't have that as a as a um standard or requirement um but I'm not sure I mean if you want every building that comes up to have an arcade then yeah we can you can have an arcade or a gallery I would allow that flexibility because they're almost the same one is done with columns and one is done arches but sure uh you could do that it also offers the opportunity for the the second level to come out to Street side as the existing is and then we can step back our our mass or whatever above that and then the question became I mean you only got 25 ft I don't know how much step back you want to do on a building that's going to be constrained not exactly again we're still trying to find a picture on it we still talking what we're still trying to get a picture of what it's going to look like because we were having trouble with trying to determine if you had a 5 foot awning versus requiring them to do an arcade that would carry them out to the curb whichever distance that is and none if it's a requirement those are options right but if we want to if our goal with the crde is to try and keep things in keeping with what was existing then we would want to include the arcade aspect to new to new development which technically would be behoove the person that's doing development because they pick up that extra 68 feet on their second story because they do have to be an open b as I recall it didn't have to be an open balcony it could be enclosed because some of the other ones are enclosed okay so um so the building facade that we were talking about is really options I hear what you're saying and are you want to remove the options and only require arcades then uh that may be too drastic in the first step but yes if our goal is to maintain the arcade style look down the streetcape and then we still need to come up with what's going to go on on the upper floors as well as as far as it being an awning or uh the other items that were that were described as as choices we if we're going to do that why don't we just name it or do it identify it and then you know the arcade I don't restrictive well the but the arcade the arcade is the arcade is a positive thing to the developer it's a positive thing to to the person with that because we're technically giving them Frontage all the way to the street front on their second level whereas if we' go with just awning if we go just awning they don't get that yeah I still don't feel super restrictive but you can do that I mean I I I wouldn't speak before a developer I mean you're not getting that much space um it is very costly I mean but if that's what you want to do um yeah you can do it and I don't think you need to design the Second Story I mean we're not um I think in the design book you can get to that so what I'm hearing at least one member say um is that you don't want the overall building facade option and that you would like all of the buildings on in the crde EA to have an arcade or a gallery that's fine I just want to make sure that's what everybody's wanting uh I don't think I really want that uh and here's why I say that is right now there are places on 8th Avenue that don't have an arcade for example you know where the seahorse is and across the street from that and Shadrack and a little room for art and an empty lot and things of that nature uh and so if they want to rebuild or redo something I don't know why they'd be limited to have to put an arcade I mean the beauty of the arcades is is the basically connected on the right now I mean it's a nice shelter that's for sure but I mean ons and campies can you part of that but yeah I mean when you got something like for example R Shad Rex that's between an and really I guess this kind of more of a driveway or an alley you want to call it so you're going to have a break in the arcade there anyway but even more so the thing I'd be concerned first of I agree with Sean entirely that that's a preferable look the arcade and we'd want that to be if they were to tear a existing building down that had one we'd like it to still exist but since the crd EA right now also includes the south side of Ninth Street which has no arcade I'd be reluctant as it is right now to suggest that those people would have to build an arcade on 9th of course that goes back to my whole kind of belief that I don't even know if that should be part of the crd because across the street is a par across the street is a park so it's not like you're looking down the street with the arcade on both sides like you have on Eighth Avenue but I guess yeah so so what I can do is um I can I can add a sentence on the preferred um style you know when developing adjacent to arcades and galleries is to have a consistent building form of that it can be a preference it doesn't it's not a requirement and then if you all wanted to make a requirement then um then we can look at it that way I I have a question on that because I like kind of like your suggest a moment ago before we got into that specifically about having uh uh a softer approach with alternative um that we let that can be considered by the historic board but that gets me down to what my overall general question is what kind of authority will the historic board have to tell somebody yes or no anyway you know what I mean so if somebody says okay we have a alternative design and and they go in front of the historic board and the historic board says well we don't like that and they say well you can't tell us no anyway because all you're doing is making you know you're just giving us advice here because another part of we'll talk about it later when we talk about design book it looks almost as if we have the the way it's written the power to control the request but we really don't so are we are we creating a a loophole or an open area that's that's right for you know misuse or exploitation because we've said you can do design alternative but there's really no enforcement historically I mean the design I mean I have a feeling hopefully that most people that build would want to be building you know historically anyway because why else be here but uh you I guess you you you agree with me the design book is still in the in the realm of suggestion well yeah I mean depends like yeah you know and you know the code is pointing to the design guide book so you know if there's five options in the guide book and somebody wants a sixth option if it's not in there then the answer would be no okay but that's an answer that's no from the city staff not from the historic board right I mean you could also I mean the city staff's going to say no but they can ask to um have you hear it and you can you're recommending board so you can say yes or no too it's it's going to be the same power you have having every other item that gets regulated that you review I understand that but what I'm saying is what what I'm saying is the bottom line and the enfor of that is is the staff that says we say as an authority this does not fit within a design book even though we've made a recommendation and if I may to it it doesn't have to be what doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be the staff especially for alternative designs right if if you if you lay out specific well if you lay out specific things in a design book or in the code and staff can look at it and say okay this meets a b or c but then D is a catch all that says or any other design as approved by the HPB then you will have the teeth to say I don't think this me right so that's kind of yeah that's true I mean yeah so for me when i' say any other design it would have to you know I've done alternative design um as statement for and then you have an evaluation of it and it's not um you know um it it would be having to have a consistent design approach that is an acceptable architectural design style that's recognized by the architectural community so it couldn't be but it could be contemporary you know but but if it doesn't fit um you can also have that too is that the design has to the um alternative designs that they considered have to be from 1800 to 19 something like you can even put the error that you want as the alternative design if if you're looking for something that you haven't thought about so th those are things that I think are good discussion items when we go through a design book yeah okay all right you know that's that's okay that makes sense okay um now um you know we talked a little bit or I I heard a little bit on storefront character that you know that that term um is an old term it can be stripped out but essentially really it's just talking and I can Define it and I think that's where everybody landed is it's really um when it's a predominant area and I think even somebody in the board talked about it is really about looking at it from a pedestrian scale and that um it primarily retail and sometimes office but any active use would have those um standards appli to them I I did hear a couple people talk about that the percentage was too high and then GL um it's not necessarily the case um but you could you can remove um the maximum percentage if you wanted to uh but most of the historic buildings the the Rhythm and style would be um 80% I mean as a maximum but you're probably looking average of your buildings are probably anywhere between like the 50 and and 65 or 70% um okay I I um I so G through the design elements the storefront character um and I just wanted to confirm I heard that we were reducing the height in the text to 30 to from 35 to 25 but making a reference to um base flood elevation that was our goal yeah I I think I think there might be I think it's an unwieldy way to do it but I I seems to me that if well let me ask you this can we make a requirement of flood proofing not not a choice but a requirement of flood proofing for a commercial you know the first floor of a commercial which all the crd is going to be first floor has to be commercial reason I asked that is I believe it's it gives an option on a commercial building whether you can uh flood proof it and if you do then I think that that changes what the BFE is correct or eliminates the BFE from being applied and so you know that that's a that's a discussion that you had with the expert that came in and and I've forgotten her name that she works in the city and she was not comfortable with that requirement um so if if you want to go back and forth with that I I recommend having a meeting again with who walked us through the flood flood proofing and the BF um for me personally that's just not something that I would um recommend it's just not all right all right I I that was that answers my question Okay so what so then we get back to you know if we're because the some definitions of height includes the BFE and some don't and the city then interprets them to include them and you know and and and we've gone back and forth about the original crd how they said 35 ft and we all believe that didn't include the BFE but the city says it does and so that's why I think we're talking about well if we're going to do it that way then let's lower it to 25 ft with the DFE which basically keeps it at 35 ft which is still 5 ft higher than anything that exists there now anything historic that exist you know because I was you know I was going from the standpoint is could can every single structure on 8th Avenue be rebuilt the way it is and and the answer to that is Yes except for the bottom floor of uh the hotel on the corner and the bottom floor of the I guess it's C the tortuga in or something like that because those the only first floors that have residential aspects to it otherwise you could rebuild all those historic structures exactly as they are right well and I don't that's kind of a a question where if they're non-conforming then no well that's that's you know okay I'm just saying like to say they can build what they have is not now what I'm saying is they have these are structures that exist that have commercial on the first floor they have arcades and they have a second floor okay and so you if you if you wanted to you could build a single story building there on 8th Avenue there's no reason you couldn't you could build a second two-story building the the only reason we're now talking about building three stories there which there are none of historically except for the back of the Keystone and that's at 30 feet above above grade is because I guess we've allowed a third story for some reason which is not like adding a third story to a residential building where you can't have anybody living on the first floor so I I throw that out there because I think we the overall goal of the of the e8th Avenue is to make it look historic and make it look consistent the way it already looks not to necessarily add a story to everything well and can I ask a question because and hypothetically so let's say we get a a great design guide book we have great criteria for what these structures should look like and what to maintain historic then does height really matter I mean because because if if the if the facade of the building absolutely looks historic and everything about it looks like it's from the 50s then then does 5T really matter in height oh 5T wouldn't but I I have a ser series of evidential photos I'd love to share with you guys at some point during this discussion to show what mass and Scale based on what's happened on eth Avenue already means and that's why we're trying to prevent it or be aware of it because that extra 10 ft does make a big difference makes a huge difference well it also becomes 15 ft when you add up stuff on the rooftop and elevator shafts and stuff like that and then we'll get down to you know redevelop what does Redevelopment really mean does that mean that somebody's going to come in and rebuild the same thing as are they going to rebuild it to the maximum they are going to achieve when they redevelop so the fact that the tortuga has residential on the ground floor at this moment in time doesn't mean that somebody would come in and redevelop the tortuga the same way if they could do it the same way because residential on the ground floor wouldn't necessarily be allowed it would have to have BF underneath it so these all become you know players and what is the reality of the person that's going to come down here and utilize these new crds that we're working on so if 8th Street were wiped out down and rebuilt adding an extra 15 ft to both sides are just going to give you a wall of two walls yeah giant walls on either side well and the only reason why I'm focused on design is because you could have setback requirements once you hit a certain height you could have open areas you could have you know I mean you could really do a lot with the design guide book to ensure even if they are 15 ft higher higher there's only certain things that they can do it for right like there's certain limitations that you can make there that I think legally are a lot easier to defend just and like I said we're just but given the size of the parcels of land there I don't see that happening I'm going to go ahead and make my place smaller because I want to go ahead and take advantage of a design criteria I I don't think I've ever heard that come out of a developer's mouth you make it a requirement though that's what we're talking about there's no option to not meet the design criteria that's what we're talking about now it's it's it's a must if we allowed a higher height then we could require that higher height to have it's called the cake wedding cake effect so that things go down on sides as as opposed to having a big Square building right but you know most of the lots are 50 ft and so the restrictions are just over going to overcome but here's my point I didn't mean to like open Pandora's boxman away I did of course is that if if if we want the historic 8th Avenue to remain to look the same we arguably don't even have to say they're allowed a third floor I'm not that's not what I'm saying okay but right now the only third floor is the back of the Keystone and that is 30 ft above grade okay and so you can still bu build with three stories at 30 ft above grade okay and so if we're trying to maintain the the the kind of the the Skyscape that we have there that's why I say we shouldn't be getting push back from saying we want it 25 ft with the BFE that still makes it 35 ft which is still 5T higher than anything else but it's also not 45 ft and it's not it's not you know it changes and so I I I think we we don't want a develop first off let's let's all talk about the reality of 8th Avenue there's only been one thing built there the last 50 years okay so it's not like people are scrambling to knock buildings down but but it's going to happen at some point and we've seen you know and then you want a 35 45 foot building there I don't think we do and so I I don't know what what the issue would be if we wanted to change it to 25 ft include and include the BF or make it even 20 ft in the BF that's still 30 ft which is consistent with what they have now so you know I don't know the how the rest of the people think about it so um maybe I'm the last to join the party here but I thought you all had decided 25 ft but we did we did 35 ft minus BF what conversation are we having that needs to change nothing I suppose okay just be talking make well no I I think because the conversation is here Tara and I think one of your questions and I'm just going to be forthcoming but it sounds good I just think there's got to there's going to be a lot of research and stuff that goes into it before we can advise before we can advise the commission like this is legally sound right like I'm yeah I mean and that's why I that was myal question is that that's what I want Clarity on the board wants 25t um and to and um also just that bf so I've heard that pretty loud and clear now it's up IL legal to decide whether or not they can defend that um and it's the 35 ft an argument and I don't know I mean so I think I I'm I feel pretty good that everybody knows what we're trying to discuss and we still don't have an answer I don't think there's any more convincing at this point we I heard what your recommendation was legal now um is going to have to decide whether or not that's defensible and then and then we can go to the commission and I can say that's the recommendation of the board I mean you know I mean and and when it comes to having this passionate discussion you know you all should be at that meeting as well I I agree everybody here I think everybody here just in the interest of time we've got like 15 minutes left I think I think we're all on the same page well I'm not so sure if that's the case if it's going to come down to what the legal people recommend so I'm making my legal argument now it's not legal people let's be real you follow what I'm saying I want it all pointed out there so we don't but I think you've made it uh many times and we just have to wait to see what legal's going to say and then then then maybe we just have a a separate conversation again about height okay I'm not trying to dismiss it I just think you know I'm putting it in the way you requested and then Matthew's going to review it and then we can blame Matthew or thank mat okay there just may need to be tweaks I mean maybe maybe we focus on new construction I mean there there are ways to accomplish this yeah we just have to have some caveats to some extent which I know you guys don't want that's why I'm trying to way to accomplish again I don't know you got to worry about B Harris act you got to worry about taking away I don't think that I I I think we just missed the Mark again I don't think that having to do Redevelopment is the term that I'm using is what I call new construction in that District if you're talking about somebody doing remodeling or upgrading to their existing structure then let's help them I don't have a problem with that I have a problem with brand new construction coming in and laying waste to that area Okay uh what don't we put together with that is if our caveat and then that'll be you know yeah I mean I feel like I understand where yall are coming from I don't think I don't think we're um yeah I mean okay um and thank you for the aerial photos I I see them and I have them you get an idea of the mass and scale question yeah I I don't think the other board the other board members I don't think have seen the pictures yet so these are aerial photos that were taken of 8th Avenue to give you an idea of what the structures look like down 8th Avenue there was five photos I think but it's hard to see some of them and they're small on that screen that one stop if you can focus in on the the shot on the top is there any way to enlarge it or do we have it here C can we pull those up on the screen Ryan just stop stop me when it's I can enlarge them remember hurle can you see them on your screen there yes okay our screens now have them so this is a shot that is coming across from approximately 7th Avenue in Gulf Way and it's showing the mass of the structure in the middle of 8th Avenue versus the three-story Keystone on the left and the other buildings that are to the right and in front of it and how it basically Towers above there's another one that's a little bit further to the West that's the one where you can get a better idea of the actual height of this structure versus all the surrounding buildings and this is what we're trying to avoid happening again and it is a mass and scale issue and this is what happens when as little as 10 ft is added onto the bottom because BF was handled in a different way than the 35 ft that was originally envisioned for eth Avenue thank you R I don't know there's there's three other photos if the board wants to see there the photos be able to switch through them for you there's a one from the north facing it and did you take these with the Drone from the East hand glider hand glider drones are a wonderful thing oh go sticks actually one of the shots you don't have was but taken from a a boat a water shop looking down 8th Avenue I think this is a good shot right here yeah you really see how big yeah this is this is a good shot and again that's that's towering above all the other structures and that's what we're trying to avoid in the future yeah yeah I um yeah I like the images are good and you know part of the presentation we can use those um to talk about what the that's the one what the fear of of the height um okay so I think that was everything except for the very last question um that I got let me make sure legal sront the oh um two um there was a discussion on rooftop activity and um whether you want to prohibit it or create a conditional use requirement and um the city already has a conditional use requirement for certain aspects in a rooftop activity so do you want additional um items that you want through a conditional use that aren't already in that conditional use requirement for restaurants and bars well it is is that controlled by some other section of the code or is that within our CR CR the section 40 I believe it's in another section what Brandon told me it's under the conditional use provisions in the cdea but it only applies to rooftop dining drinking and music so if there were some other kind of assembly deck that's not something that's currently regulated if that's something that you would want added we would need to add that into the code so a a rooftop pool or something like that would need to be where where does it exist now it's in uh the conditional use permit regulations for the crda division 40 okay where where in 40 it's uh division 40 I think it's 40.4 let me just double check very last item yes I'm looking at it rooftop dining game oh yeah did you say page 41 40.1 section 40.4 is the allowable conditional uses and that's that's page two that it points to the conditional use which is 6.24 so um yeah except for no it's not I mean that that that's section 04 just is talking about s single family yeah that's a and now go to be it's not a single family okay except for as a matter of of construction the first paragraph talks only about residential places okay and so as you'll know Matthew that that's actually not ordered correctly did did because we talk about that's essentially what we're talking about and then suddenly we add B and talk about something commercial so that's why it's a bit misleading and it's it's awkwardly phrased I understand I can understand that I I can revise that well while we're on the topic Tara do we want to add anything else any other restrictions to commercial cuz I I I'd never like to draft a list of one right right you don't want like a and we had questions about well the accessory uses or the accessory structures such as if they going to put a hard top over a bar or something like that and if that changed the height of the building there was a question about I guess the the elevators are included but there was something else as far as mechanical what was a question oh um that was in the rooftop screen well this whole thing 40.4 that's why really paid attention to it before because it's really pretty misleading it it says nothing about commercial and so I guess my question is if we're not going to deal with as well as address his rooftop uses I mean it's not written well that's for sure but I mean I can rewrite it that's the original um section soite that yeah but here's my question okay I mean if you read it it basically says that you could have a roof dining and drinking on a residential house if the residential house qualified and all those other ways it says nothing about being involved in commercial it's just un residential and so okay maybe somebody does want to have a drinking area on top of their house that doesn't prevent that but what the problem is is this apparently seems to spring up and suggest that a commercial building can apply for a conditional use permit under this section I don't like the can I believe that was the intent of it yes well that my question is is is that the intent you think I think so okay I mean it says as well as address rooftop uses so I think that's probably why staff has been able to use that I mean I'll I'll clear it up well and it also points to 6.24 which is specific say as well yeah it makes a which is specific to restaurants so okay okay so other than um the roof dining and drinking areas where you know when I when I was listening to the discussion what I heard not just the dining and drinking area that you were even worried if somebody came in it was just a lounge area that didn't serve anything that you could just go up there and sit do you not want that either or do you want that added to it oh before we get to that I just want make sure that under Section A we're talking about the residential it's talking about historic preservation Board gets to do a certificate of appropriateness under Section B it doesn't say that but there's but would if we're talking about allowing roof dining and drinking areas shouldn't that also be historic be a certificate of appropriateness that goes in front of the historic board follow what I'm saying mhm yeah yeah I don't know um do you that's a question I just have to research do you do you have a certificate of appropriateness for your non-residential buildings currently uh I don't know BR I don't think so we we do it's not a specific application if that's what you mean but we do require certificates of appropriateness for commercial we just don't have them frequently so okay because because that would be key I mean you want that added to like under be almost right we can add that I mean 1 two 3 and four should be open be as well yeah okay we have four minutes to discuss my favorite topic oh boy I think we have we're good till 2:30 Tara I think um okay so um I know that how everything started last month was talking about why do we have two districts why can't it just be one why is one over why why isn't one and we've um I have explored all of those options I have looked at that and I um determined that the easiest way to enforce the current standards is to have them remain in different districts for many reasons one is the P overlay the function of an overlay can be many different things um an overlay is over an zoning District we are moving from being able to permit having an option on the zoning District to having a requirement however we are not changing the underlining uses that are permitted in that area if we were to merge a zoning District we will remove every zoning district and we would have to assign subd districts within that overlay to preserve the units and rights so that was my approach to that um now with the crde especially now um that's always been a zoning District we've taken all the standards that you really wanted from the overlay into the cdea we're applying those and we are regulating height different in the cdea than we are in the overall pass gr overlight so for me keeping those separate but as part of the same character and intent and area serves the goals of having those particular districts remain um the boundary I still need to kind of go through that I do think that um I think and I I you know Matthew and I all sit too I uh think that the original pass of Grill overlays purpose intent says in the third sent are the four sentence uses of property within the pass gr area situated south of 32nd Avenue so I believe that there's a sentence in the original overline that says that so um it would be my um question is why didn't the map ever match that because that's the statement um so those are kind of the you know those are so I just condens like everything that you all talked about for a long time um and I just want to know how you feel about I mean the boundary one is to me is you know one that um you know it's it's got to come from the legal department because I can just say anything that I want you know I I mean within reason but um I I feel um you know I even remember when I got hired to do the first swipe at this was that there was always 32nd Avenue I asked about the crda at that time and they said well no that's really separate we want to keep it separate okay but everything 32nd Avenue South so that that's um so I understand why that's coming up um and I don't know how I don't know if it's easy of you know can that be can that be a map amendment to match what the actual intent has been and in place since 2016 I mean that's a question to ask you know um so um I I'm happy to answer any or clarify any of the statements I just made on why the overlay is separate what's the function of it and honestly you don't have to call it an overlay if you want to change the name you can change the name um You can call a special area District it's still going to operate as an overlay that's just how overlays operate um and um yeah I'm happy to okay well let me let me just say this I know exactly what you're talking about I think because I was thinking through the same concept I don't really I used to complain about why the crd is not part of the overlay okay I understand why it wouldn't be because of what you just said and we have to change the purpose and intent to make it more to add more verbage that's consistent with the overlay verbage what our purpose intent is because now it's very brief we've talked about that that I understand the bigger problem which I think you're agreeing with is why when they did the zoning maps are there certain areas of pass to grow that are south of 32nd that aren't SL pag you know what I'm talking about right and so I don't know if we ever if the intent truly was to make everything South 302 then those Maps should have said SL pag because but but the but the next problem okay so maybe that's a simple thing as just change changing the maps you know who's who's calling the shots here the maps or the people the the real intent but the bigger problem is in a residential build when a person can decide they want to build it under the underlying Zone just as if it was built off pass a grill yeah and the person that opts to build it under the overlay CU we've got a perfect once these new these new standards remove that option Okay so so we we're that's the next part you said what you're just talking about why the crd should be separate from the overlay and not not remove we you're fine with removing the the choice between overlay or underlying Zone but to make that consistent we have to have all the underlying zones be part of the pass Grill overlay the maps have to change right I mean that would solve the issue um yeah I mean um that that to me um I I'm stepping out on a you know I am walking a tight roof of whether or not I'm qualified to say that right I believe when I read it it says situated south of 32nd Avenue so I think it's clear um to me the purpose and intent I mean and I'm I'm fine with not giving the option anymore that's what started this whole process we we're you know when I first drafted this you know I feel like 100 years years ago it was years recation back then but there wasn't an elected official that was comfortable with it so you know I think it's great I would remove that and just keep the use intact and I think the real question is is you know from a a legal perspective does that sentence in purpose intent Trump the map and I don't know like that's a I don't know if we can answer that today but maybe that's really got to be looked at in division 20.01 I mean it's been there it's not been replaced um you know we can research it whether it was in the you I I know it was um in um 2016 um but we'll we'll see how it has it been since 2010 it might have yeah I mean because because to me it's like there's no logic to create the overlay and then let people just do whatever they want anyway it's like it's all just a suggestion it's a historic district supposed to have rules that go along with it not rules you can maybe do if you want or maybe do if you don't want so I agree 100% that that had to be the intent otherwise why would you do it and the map terara if I may the I'll look at my I can look at my old stuff too from when I would say yeah please do that because it's it's not necessarily legal in that well it is in the way you advertise it right but if it was advertised correctly then it's advertised correctly and the map should read what it reads but when when you're doing an overlay and you're doing a a zoning map I mean there's a very specific way in ordinances and legal advertisements to advertise those things so it's really just turning back to clock and going through all of those advertisements to see what what occurred at that time okay because the other thing I would say just mention this again that that that that's a built-in inconsistency the way it is now is you know there's language in the overlay that talks talks about real property not not the design like talks about joining properties okay and so if if if if there's parts of the historic district that aren't under the overlay then overlay then that joining properties doesn't apply to them you follow what I'm saying and so it seems to me when they enacted the overlay they didn't just talk about how you're going to build a house they talked about its relationship with other other pieces of real estate so that's why it should consistently all be one and that's why I would believe it only makes sense that the intent would have been to include everything South in 32nd so anyway I just throw that out because we talking about at my old stuff and you know the city will need to kind of look at how um in you know 2016 in that ordinance how was um how was it publicly advertised I um you know and I could be wrong I don't remember the maps being part of that but that doesn't mean that that's correct I I will never rely on what I've said like a month ago so to believe that in 2016 it's the stret um because I I didn't do the mapping and in and the city was at that time so you know so anyway it might just be something interesting to kind of look at and then if it's not the case then you know I'm 100% you know with Matthew of moving forward with all of this and coming back and doing the map change you know separate if it if it really can't legally be um defended but um but I'm going to go through all my stuff too because I I don't know why certain things were kind of picked and not picked we we never did I never personally did that exercise you know I never looked at a map and said eliminate that that that was never the case you know but that map could have just been in place and it never got updated too yeah I I would suggest that the zoning Maps aren't in compliance because it's a separate act to do but I think whoever's in charge the maps who this thought the overlay have high their residences so we just excluded the commercial aspects because the places where the overlay doesn't apply are institutional and commercial on the on the current on the current maps zoning Maps well um the P overlay District addresses commercial well there you go that's what I'm saying I think I think the the maps just weren't in compliance they weren't followed up that the ball was dropped between the intent of what was done and what ultimately happened and then what happens is year later everyone says the maps are what's in control yeah yeah and that that I don't know I don't know if um I don't know if that was done separately and then you know staff or commission decided to remove those and you know they didn't update the text like th those are things but it's not that far it's only 2016 so there should be some records I mean if anything the city takes keeps records pretty well all right well you have five to six minutes to relax we're not done with you yet terara what no I'm just kidding we're good anything else for her while we have her only thing yeah just while we have her for a minute when when we talk about doing design books right there's going to be design book that'll be done for the crd and a separate one done for for residentials right I think we should do it just for the whole thing okay and then just have Jennifer said that and I thought it was a great idea too so youall don't need me uh that you have one book and you can tab it it must make some things easy okay that that's fine okay but my next question is said it when that comes around the design book being put together with photographs or whatever is that something you'll be part of or not or do you know yet I don't know yet I me I think we talked about it but I don't remember okay will to be part of it well and so am I is what I'm saying so I'd love that's why I'm asking you you because we have you now is whether or not the historic Bo can have some input into how the design bu is put together um I mean if I'm if I'm part of it yeah I mean I I even if I'm not part of it you should absolutely be part of it thank you Bill just wants to be right more people to tell him no it's not right it's just an include they just want to be include opport to discuss it yeah every day and I every day I see something different you know what I mean and it's like but it don't matter what I say you know I'm a consultant like you can say well Tera said that no one's going to care but yeah it you know ultimately if we have to confir of the commission it helps yeah it does yeah all right thank you terara okay all right thank you all thanks for accommodating me today I appreciate it okay thanks thank you I guess the workshop is is over which means free timing we start up in what four minutes is that already been taken care of no I think we got to do it again okay flag of States of America and the rep for it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all okay Madam clerk roll call please member young here member dashel here member Hurley here chair Lowry here we have a quum okay can you put up on the computer the our agenda is on here already so he maybe I can do that put are you still in the workshop I just try to get out of it in the top corner do you see where it says done top right corner just hold on this one yeah I got I all myself okay um all right first item of business is approval of the agenda anybody want to add add anything to that I'll just add Island Festival the museum okay and and this one I want to add even though this in a very small way because I don't that's just an alley update I know at the last meeting at the commission That was supposed to be on there but I don't think they ever got to it I'm not sure because it would might have been two in the morning or something like that what item about update on the Alley Mike was going to come in on that day well there he is that's for that's fine okay yeah well he has an item on he has an item on it but he can if you want to add it oh there's an item on that wouldn't you guys add that no no he has his house no no no no he he has he himself has a different yeah has a different item yeah if he can if if he can just if we can have that this as a St and just get the update I know that they've been doing work and I thought they were going to speak last week and if they did I didn't stay up that late but uh okay okay anybody else have anything else to add all right then I'll a motion to approve the March agenda I'll second that call please member Hurley yes member young yes member dashel yes chair Larry yes motion carries okay next we have audience comments I believe we do have an audience comment on uh from Mr lot Martin lot is that person here yeah come on come forward unless you're going want to speak on something that's not there's something on the discussion item we're going to be talking speak on the variance and yeah it's a specific item specific item okay then we'll wait until we get to that that'll be more s okay so uh next we have approval of minutes does anybody an opportunity to look at the minutes and does anyone have a motion I'd like to motion to approve the minutes from the February 1 meeting I second that roll call please member dashel yes member young yes member Hurley yes chair Larry yes motion carries okay that moves on to action items uh 4A local historic designation case number 24008 for the address of 3601 Casablanca Avenue does staff have something on that hi yep Lyn does and I I believe if we want to put up the PowerPoint right y oops okay good afternoon sorry a little bit slow but uh hello Miss hap okay so the first item on the agenda is the local historic designation of 3601 Casablanca Avenue which is a single family house located within the Don CeSar um neighborhood let's see is it turned on on oh that sorry thank you okay this property is located at 3601 Casablanca case number 24008 the owner applicant is Michael F Clark and Kimberly T Clark who reside at 3601 Casablanca Avenue and they are requesting a local historic designation as well as a certificate of appropriateness and a FEMA variance request so we will go through the zoning map aerial photograph photographs that have been taken by staff of this property designation criteria and our findings and recommendations this is the location of the subject property along cablanca Avenue it's at the corner of cablanca and 36 Avenue this is an aerial of it and you can see that this particular property is on two lots and the dimensions of the lot are 100 by 110 the property was properly posted for all three requests that one the first one was on the side yard on 36 and this is on cablanca the Frontage shows that well this is a ranch style house and it has distinctive arches that were may have been uh built in a manner to sort of em emulate the Venoy I'm sorry the Don CeSar which is in viewing distance of this property if you'll recall the Donar neighborhood was subdivided by the developer Thomas row of the Don CeSar and he platted the entire neighborhood well just for clarification the D is our place that goes does that how far does that go north of the D it goes It goes up to uh the street where the Zamora okay North I just want to make sure I had that right and it also goes on the east side or on West Side Of Golf Boulevard right so this is a pretty typical ranch style house with some Spanish influence of the neighborhood get another photo of it a closeup of the windows there's a medallion side never mind I think your phone was pH sorry I like I apologize it was very peaceful SCH so as you recall a local Landmark means any building structure or site which may not qualify to be on the national register of historic places but is recognized by the city as having local historic significance recent times we have been getting requests from people who live in the donaar neighborhood to locally Landmark their properties so designation criteria you have historic buildings which would exemplify the uh possess integrity and location and design setting and materials uh those are the things we would look at it could exemplify or reflect the broad cultural political or economic so and social history of the city could be associated with events that have made a significant contribution to the broad patterns of our local state or National History is is associated with the life of a person who has played a significant role in our local state or National History or could embody a distinctive visible characteristics of a particular architectural style or building and in this in this neighborhood um was this property or this whole subdivision is is associated with Thomas row who first developed the Don CeSar which is on the national register of historic places and now is um a very vibrant neighborhood most I think all most all of the lots have been developed sorry okay staff finds is that the last one I'm sorry okay sta finds that this single family home was built in 1951 and is significant in the following areas it does reflect the broad cultural history of St Pete Beach and it embodies the distinctive visible characteristics of an architectural style period and method of construction this particular one is an early mid-century Mediterranean Spanish influenced Ranch House you staff is recommending approval of this local historic designation of 3601 cablanca Avenue because of this reflection of the broad cultural history of St Pete Beach and it does embody distinctive visible characteristics of an architectural style period or method of construction we are recommending approval of the local designated of the local landmark designation and wanted to point out too that I know that many of you probably all of you know that Bel Vista at one time was was its own incorporated city or entity had a Township and in 1957 when the city of St P Beach Incorporated it drew in pasagrill Bel Vista Don CeSar and St Petersburg beach so this is one of the original communities along uh long he that is now known as St Pete Beach so it does have distinct characteristics all of its own and uh it began it has about 11 properties that predate World War II after World War II slowly people began building post World War II and by the early 1950s a full boom was in in swing and you know there was just a lot of construction activity after especially after the servicemen came home from the war started you know got married started their families and then were looking for places to build so this was a between the early 1950s and on well through the 60s most of the rest of the Lots got built and it's pretty pretty much a a mid-century modern type of neighborhood has a lot of ranch types and others and this is one of the neighborhoods we will be doing a historic survey of this year I don't know if you've got any questions about this particular case or I'll be trying to I can try to answer some of the questions that you have all right we stop at that one and we'll go to the next after you all have acted thank you yeah let me ask a question Mr lot do you want to speak about this part or about the the next part on the V the variance I more if this doesn't go through the second one is yeah well okay I I just want to give you an opportunity okay okay thank you so they're they're two separate items so you can take you want to vote now you you can take public comment on both right right so I I would if he wants to speak he should yeah then come up come up now that's probably good enough time thank you I'm Martin L I live at 3510 East maritana resident there for 44 45 years um I strongly support this U Mo move um request to make this historic structure into grant of variant um neighborhoods are under attack and a lot of pressure to redevelop and we need to have uh methodologies for people to maintain the houses and the character of the neighborhood um that neighborhood is changed is changing now and I commend the the clerks for biting the bullet and to try to take this on and um maintain the house thank you thank you sir I'd like to make a motion I move we approve local historic designation for case 24008 the address being 3601 Casablanca Avenue second the motion we call please member dasel yes member young yes member Hurley yes chair Lowry yes motion carries right the next part of this presentation deals with the certificate of appropriateness and the related feem of variance for 3601 cassablanca Avenue again the same owners Michael and Kimberly Clark and the app and the applicant is requesting both the COA and the FEA variants for their property thank location still in the same location and this is the aial of the property we've seen the photos so I will go quickly through these and one of the major things that prompted the applicants to apply for this certificate of appropriateness and variance is that they had another flooding event during idalia and they had I think two to three inches of water in their house and it created a pretty big problem and damaged a lot of the interior of the house and when the applicant came forward um to get a building permit to repair the house the repairs go significantly beyond the 50% rule so the Secretary of the Interior standards for dealing with historic properties and changes to the historic properties is takes a look at a property and they say that it shall be used for its historic purpose or replaced or placed in a new use that requires minimal change to the defining characteristics of the building site or environment and we are especially because this is not a public building with public spaces we're really only looking at the exterior of the building as far as the COA goes we're not looking inside their house you know that doesn't matter to the board because that's private space if it were a hotel that had a significant lobby area that would be a different story the lobby area would be a public space but the rest of the hotel would not necessarily be so that's one of the things we look at also to retain the historic character of the historic building as well should be retained and preserved and then the removal of many historic materials or alterations of the features and spaces are to be avoided in this case the work being done is primarily in the interior of the building that where it was damaged they're going to repaint but again the same color pink um dces are pink especially and each property also should be recognized as a physical record of its time place in use because changes con creative false sense of historical development but again in this case there are no changes to the exterior except for there will be a new front door and there will be I think a new window and new paint color but the new paint color isn't even a change of color it's just a new coat of paint over the old so most properties change over time and those changes that have required historic significance in their o right shall be retained and preserved in looking at this building it appears as though it its historic Integrity is well intact distinctive features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize the property show be preserved and in this case I believe that is being done also deteriorated historic features should be repaired rather than replaced when the severity of the deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature the new feature shall match the old in design color and texture and other visual qualities for example on the exterior of the house on the West Side there's a a decorative Medallion but there is no request to remove The Medallion chemical or physical treatments such as sand blasting that could cause damage to the material shall not be used surface cleaning of structures shall be undertaken with the general means possible and then also significant archaeological resources affected by the project will be protected and preserved there are no known archaeological resources at this time new additions exterior alterations or related new construction shall not destroy the historic materials and the new additions also um or related new construction shall be in undertaken in such a manner as if to remove if removed in the future the essential form in Tre of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired and I believe that the um from what I understand from the applicant that the door that is going to be replaced the front door is going to have the same look it's going to be a new door I think the door itself had been damaged by water and a a more flood resistant or water resistant front door is going to be put into place and made a little more blood resistant so a variance from the flood plane management regulations is being sought in order to renovate 3601 Casablanca the estimated cost of this re renovation is $241,200 157 that would be allowed by FEMA via the pinelis County property appraiser valuation um the property owner also got a valuation for you know using an appraisal and he still comes out where he would still have to seek a cert a 50% uh FEMA variance and for the flood PL variance criteria we look at the structure um whether or not it's designated by the city at the time the city was a certified local government you have just uh designated this building and another is the structure is listed on the Florida uh Master site file and I have I prepared a Florida Master site file form and went ahead and submitted that to the state for flood plane variance criteria the variance will not preclude the structure's continued designation as a historic structure and the variance is the minimum necessary to preserve the historic character and design of the original structure and according to the applicant cablanca Avenue suffered considerable damage from the flooding with respect to the hurricane and these repairs to to uh fix this is going to be pretty expensive and more than that we can talk about this and I know Mr Clark is here to discuss this he is planning on going a little bit beyond just replacing like the drywall the walls for example on the interior he plans to make those concrete the flooring he's not going to have wood flooring he's going to put in tile flooring he's going to put in materials that would be flood resistant so even if water got in you would mop it up clean it up and dry it out and go about your way instead of this is this building has shown evidence in P in the past of having had other flood damages and it's just a matter of time before there's another flood event that would damage this property I think the new seaw walls are going to care that problem but okay that's fine so um staff finds the proposed certificate of appropriateness and FEMA variance is consistent with the city of St Pete Beach Land Development code staff recommends approval of the proposed COA case numbers uh the cas your case numbers are 24009 for the COA and the FEMA variance which is 24010 and that would be the variance from the flood plane management regulations so staff is recommending the following actions that the board approve the COA and the board also approve the FEMA variance thank you I'll be glad to try and answer any questions you have I know the applicant would like to make a presentation in his application app packet itself that you got he extensively went through details of what he planned to do to both the exterior and the interior of the house and if you've got any questions of him on that I'm sure he'd be glad to answer those questions talking about uh the baseboard and the the storm surge that happened and the walls and flooring and everything else and kitchen cabinets you know everything that could be touched by water a lot of it got damaged so he's trying to make it more resilient and we applaud that and it could be that some of these particular types of treatments that he's proposing might be something to look at in the future for flood proofing issues thank you very much thank you Mr Clark do you want to speak my Clark representing U myself and uh my wife as we own the property uh chair Lowry members of the board thank you for the opportunity uh not don't know if I can say much more than my neighbor and and Lynn but I can certainly elaborate um the uh the the whole neighborhood and there's another member in the audience that's kind of experiencing the same thing I am uh we're it's a low-lying neighborhood and I did not fall into the house you know blindly you my eyes were wide open but uh it's a it's a wonderful property and it suits our lifestyle our friends and family can come visit and that's it's always a delightful thing on the beach and uh it's it's just got this personality and character and you know with a good five iron shot I can hit the Don CeSar uh and so it's just it just has its character about it but Mother Nature decided to bring on a fight and because I happen to be a retired combat engineer I'm going to fight back I'm not going to surrender my property and uh to just so you know this is not the first conversation that I've had with Lynn about designating this historic uh this goes back several years and we just haven't pulled the trigger on it yet so to speak but the exterior uh because it is concrete uh stucco on concrete on a concrete slab continuous pour uh no structural defects noted either in the walls or on the floor um it's a very hardened house the the water is not coming through the wall it's it's all concrete it's coming through the doors and um so in order to protect the house in the future I'm going to um I I propose to reduce the number of penetrations in the house from four doors to two and the one we have a French door off of our master bedroom on the north side of the house you can't even see it from the street we're going to pull that door down concrete it up and put a emergency egress window in it that'll fit the character of the house itself it'll look like the rest and then uh there used to be a uh Florida room or a sun porch that was screened in back when it was built at some point in time a renovation was done and it's now an integral part of the house and it also has a door but that door was not built very well and it is the primary point of entry for water and it's very difficult to defend from the exterior so we're going to take that door down block it up and and remove it completely it's not necessary I have had the fire chief come over and give me advice as to whether or not the egresses and and fire codes and everything are set we're and we're good with that and then the kitchen door is also a French door uh we're going to pull the French door off and put in a 4 foot wide U you know single door so the French doors are notoriously difficult to defend against because of the seam in the middle of the door but it's much easier to defend against water if you have a perimeter uh seal on a single door and so we'll have instead of the French door we'll have the the sides will have mirrors or uh Windows you know side windows on it so it'll it'll retain the look of a French door but it'll only have one opening and so by reducing our exposure by 100% Going Down from four doors to two that's a significant step we've also uh the proposal is to replace those doors um the front door um is replaceable in kind and it's actually already been done and if you did not know that I had done it uh with a permit by the way uh it looks precisely and exactly the same as the old door it's got the little Windows across the top and and everything else and the back door of course I said I'll do the same we're not messing with the windows at this time a couple years from now when when we recover from all this uh maybe we'll hit the windows but on the interior you know if Mother Nature is sneaky enough to get in and um we have already purchased what's called a door dam from a company up north in Boston and this is a very robust structure that you place in the door frame and you expand it out under air pressure and it and it provides a neoprene seal uh and it's an extremely robust very tough and so up where we will be we will be solid on the exterior up to four feet tall so if Mother Nature wants to bring on a 4ft storm I think we can handle it but she's very sneaky and so if she does get inside the house what she touches with her water is going to be all ceramic Ste steel metal um elevated uh tile um we're not putting anything that uh there's no uh no wallboard no wood baseboard all the uh Cabinetry will be elevated as a floating cabinet 13 in off the floor um so so all of the materials that's the important part there will be no interstitial space we're going to glue the Ceramics straight onto the concrete wall so there's no water there's no there's no space by furring strips that can get behind the ceramic and hold water behind it it's just going to be a contiguous uh concrete structure and so these techniques um as I think my as I was thinking my way through how do I harden up how do I you know secondary line of defense the first line of defense is the exterior got the doors interior line of defense is is appropriate materials and we found all these materials and they actually complement the house on the interior very closely to what it would be had I just put wallboard back up and painted it and put Cabinetry back in So if you did not really know what we were doing uh you know if you came to visit her or whatnot you'd have to I'd have to explain it the only Oddity might be that we did Elevate or we're going to elevate all of the electrical sockets to 4 feet also so there will no be no longer be any electrical exposure on the floor and uh we do intend to replum the house um because we have uh old pipe in the concrete and underneath the concrete base and and as a 72y old house that's a bit of an exposure so we're going to replum the house which has nothing to do with you know hardening or anything but we're going to do that and uh the electrical code we've had the I had the pre former building inspector in the house to give me a code inspection no defects were found so we're good to go across all of the code requirements through the building code so we're uh we're building to stay we're building to be hard uh we're uh using some new ideas that we might be able to export to our friends around the neighborhoods as we you know continue this journey and um that's that's kind of that's about it okay anybody have any questions Mr Clark no well thank you thank you Mike I'd like to make a motion any other audience comments I I don't think so I think that anybody else in the audience want to comment yeah I think we yeah okay um I would like to move that we approve the certificate of appropriateness case 249 and the FEMA variance case 24 I'm sorry 2410 for the address of 3601 cablanca Avenue second that motion roll call please member young yes member Hurley yes member dasel yes chair lari yes motion carries all right okay so uh now on discussion items 5 a survey Grant update um I I'll start it if you want to jump in um so as you know we got the $50,000 um Grant from the city to start work um the state approved our um uh survey vendor uh cardno who will be doing the work so it is going on the uh March 26th commission agenda just to approve that um um expenditure of 50,000 even though it comes back to us and to enter an agreement with cardo to start that work so we can potentially start that work right after the 26th and it will be surveying in the doncesar neighborhood um and also in Bell Vista so um and and I think Lynn's given an update on the other we've applied for another survey for the following year for the Corey Avenue area District so um do you have anything to add I I knew you would just just a little bit um as you know um we we've trying to get this grant going for a little while while even this is the second time around with that uh but anyway we are I I'm in the process of helping cardino get ready in that I have gone ahead and worked with our GIS people to have Maps available of all of the properties that are at least 50 years old or more in both Bel Vista and Don CeSar and we also have um at address list map with all the addresses and then the list of all of the properties that meet the criteria as well for both belvista and Don CeSar in the Don CeSar area there are approximately 190 buildings to be surveyed and then we have to do a minimum of 333 buildings in this grant cycle so the rest of the buildings will be taken up with Don CeSar um I think you all know B Vista yeah Bel Vista I think you all know that um the Pinel County and the State of Florida have been working on a grant they're in phase three now of flood prone areas in pinelis county and they chose St Pete Beach and I've been working with them now throughout this grant process and through that process they have surveyed about 15 55 properties in B Vista and that's already done with Florida Master sfalls already sent in fact we had a volunteer day back December 2nd and a few people showed up to help out and on that day I think we got 92 buildings surveyed so there may be some room for some volunteers as we get going with this survey that will be at Cardinal's uh discretion if they want to use volunteers or if they want to try and just plow through the this you know without the use of volunteers but if you've got any questions about the survey glad to try and answer them okay thank you very much thank you thanks L I guess the only question I had any ballpark idea how long it takes them to do this good we're going to have to finish it up by Midsummer okay I think we can get a little bit of extension of time from the state but we shouldn't be counting on it and then after they survey they'll put together a report that's going to discuss what they found just like the first uh pass of Grill survey did say what they feel is contributing and non-contributing and you know provide those two lists and you know we go from there okay so thank you thank you okay uh next discussion item did you add something uh the Island Festival so the golf beaches museum is doing their annual event the island Festival it's going to be March 23rd 11 to 4 um Cabana dogs is the main band but Rob parau our resident guitar player that lives in Bell Vista will also be um starting them off and going into when they're taking breaks uh there's 50-50 raffle and basket Raffles that are happening all of the proceeds goes to help support the museum so I encourage everybody to come out there there will be um vendors throughout the park and along the street there's a um a car show that we always have every year as well um so this will be on 9th and 10th Avenue and some vendors will be in the pass girl Park um and so um walking tours are available and if you've never been to the museum I highly recommend go and T and I will be Manning the bar oh well then definitely convenient us I'll be there kid so anyways I just wanted to give an update I see I know T always gives the update on the museum so I thought I'd take that over so all right and again next sorry is there one more thing to discuss we're gonna maybe yeah before we end I just have one thing I want to mention okay thanks I was Mike can you give us an alley update just really fast or whatever I mean just get give give us an idea did you actually speak at last commission meeting on Tuesday I did not I didn't think I know it was set but that was a long long meeting city city manager snuck in at the very end about 1:00 in the morning 302s I think everybody might have been tired at that point the uh there has been a great effort to try to get service restored back into the alleyway system from uh on 22nd Avenue down to 16th Avenue on the west hand side and uh uh in conjunction with a lot of assistance from our Parks and Recreation Department to uh trim back the vegetation that was identified as encroaching into the alleyway system which will be complete tomorrow tomorrow um we uh all all good intentions sometimes take a left-hand turn and in this case uh the the County water utilities project has begun and that project is a replacement of all of the water lines servicing the homes from 22nd Avenue to 9th Avenue or at 9th Avenue um and replacing all of the water meter boxes with the automatic upgrade meter boxes and they're going to be uh installing the new pipe in the alleyway system which means their equipment will be in the alleyway system between 22nd and 16th Avenue which is Phase 1 a of phase one for the next couple of weeks maybe a month or so and as their equipment sits in the alley of course uh their equipment and the garbage trucks are not going to coexist so our our grand opening that we had planned for next week uh is going to have to be postponed until we get the uh County Water equipment out of the way and I would say that had nothing ever happened and the County showed up in the alleyway the same situation would take place we would have had to notify the residents to take their garbage out to the streets where they're currently taking it out as a temporary measure for service so it's a bit of a delay in the meantime um there are a lot of other encroachments that have been identified uh a number of them include wire in the trees and I'm talking about electrical and Communications uh Duke Energy vegetation management uh has been alerted and we have a an appointment next week I believe to walk the entire Alleyway system with their vegetation management supervisor to identify the trees that they will take care of because we certainly don't want our folks getting up in there with the electrical voltages running around trying to trim trees that's a very bad idea and so we're very pleased that Duke Energy has just really stepped up to the plate and that covers the entire Alleyway grid system that we're talking about the restore um and then following parallel to that action the encroachments that are not wire uh involved uh will be identified uh letters will go out to Property Owners of removals and uh staff will begin taking care of that uh in a very methodical fashion to restore service service has been restored to the alleyway that is behind the seahorse um and so but uh unfortunately that service is as it always has been is subject to somebody else sitting there with a delivery truck or something so we kind of have to you know work around other people's schedules also um so uh having said all that there's an an enormous amount of work but I want to the message I'm delivering is that there's an enormous amount of work to move through this process to get us back into normal Service as it once was in a safe manner but I cannot give you a precise schedule at this time we're all still in development okay uh I appreciate it I just want to get a feel for what's going on I know you guys have been working there you know making some steps forward in the the the time frame that they're going to be putting in the pipes is there other like can we look at alley south south of 9th during that time or is that all going to be part of this meeting with Duke and their vation yes our efforts with Duke um are going to be comprehensive first to 21st but are return to service because the water department is not working south of 9th Avenue we're going to focus our removal efforts for encroachments between First Avenue and 7eventh Avenue so we can get at least that that section of passive grill back in and then as the uh as the as the county moves into their phases and by the way those phases are posted on our website I believe so if you go into our website you go to Public Works projects and hit that hit that button you can see a map of what those phases look like um and there's a timeline with uh those phases also and uh so that we can have some anticipation of when phase one might be clear and we can get that service restored because we've already pulled those uh encroachments out and then we'll be moving on to the next phase okay very nice thank you so much appreciate it we're leaning we're leaning forward on this one so I just want to send that message out to everybody down there in Pas hang tough but we're going to get you back to where you used to be all right thank you you bet okay anything else oh M I mean uh Matthew you wanted to oh yeah I just wanted to mention one thing I forgot last um meeting so remember Senate Bill 250 where I was like uh we can't pass anything do the Hurricanes 100 miles I don't know if I ever mentioned it to you but there was a house bill that amended it to take away the designation in miles and actually list specific counties penel County not being one of them so we have no restrictions yay yeah I mean we have restrictions but specific to this where we're allowed to adopt and do what we need to so you good right nothing further else I'm good all right thank you guys good end that was a good end yeah exclamation Matthew thank God for you yes I don't know I'm holding up