to order the planning board please rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republ one nation godible withy and justice for all roll call please member sea here Vice chair deert here member hubard here member consol here chair primer here we have a quorum okay uh we have a number one for the approval of the agenda second Vice chair deert yes member hubard yes member consol yes member sea yes may primer yes motion carries very good uh I we'll open it up to audience comments for anything not pertaining to anything that's on the agenda I have Deborah schner Teresa shead good night that'll be ask a quick question a second um I don't think I think we missed the that there wasn't a number next to it but the action item for approval oh I'm sorry forget it forget it ignore me okay sorry we're good ignore me the audence have a blonde moment okay the initial audience comments are for something that's not on the agenda so the audience comments for what we discussed on the agenda will be uh at the conclusion of the presentation of the items on the agenda I guess and Joe jeno is that for an agenda item agenda okay okay oh yes before we continue I'd also like to introduce our newly appointed member of the planning board Susan Consul cul very good thank you very much for joining us and appreciate your welcome appreciate your stepping up and helping out the city of St Pete Beach and of course the planning board uh at this time we will adjourn as the planning board and reconvene as the planning agency okay now action items we have two action items to can to talk about first of course the most is the conditional use permit number 20 23033 Madam clerk can you read the title I can um resolution 2020 3-27 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of St Pete Beach Florida approving a conditional use permit pursuant to sections 35.3 B1 and 35 4B of the Land Development code to allow the construction of a four-phase temporary lodging Redevelopment that will include 1,596 total temporary lodging units or 63.8 units per buildable acre of which 629 units are additional above existing 5900 59,87324 additional above existing 79,2 ft of retail and restaurant space of which 42,900 5 ft of office space of which 10,486 ft² is additional above existing and develop new lodging accessory and amenity structure containing the aforementioned units accessory spaces and amenities as well as outdoor amenities and parking garages that will extend up to 116 ft in height above base level elevation BFE to the roofline and 128 ft above BFE when including rooftop amenities or decorative features and permit two rooftop dining and drinking amenities that includes the playing of outdoor music to parcel 06 32 1 16 00000000 230 030 0 0632 1 6 0 00 0 230 d020 0 0 1 32 1 15 0000 0 00 0 1 0 1 1 0 060 0 10132 2 1 15 00001 1 0610 0 13215 1 18142 0000 000000 0 01 3215 1 18142 0000 00001 0132 1 15 0000 0 1 1 0 0 500 0 and and 01 3215 0000001 1 0400 with addresses of 5600 5700 5750 5800 5900 and 6,000 Gulf Boulevard incorporating the conditions outlined here in and providing for correction of scrivener's error and an effective date thank you madam M clerk um so if I may uh chair primer I believe the applicant's attorney is here they have requested a continuance um on this item and um item 3B as well which we will do separately the reason it's we had to have this hearing is because advertisements went out mailings went out notices were published signs were posted for today's date so the idea is to open the meeting which is what we've done continue it to a date certain confirm that all members are available at that time and date um and then make a motion to continue it to preserve the advertisement so if Miss Batel wants to come up and for the record make the request hi Elise Batel Sterns wether Miller for the record um we are requesting a continuance we are still working through the development agreement issues with the city and the City attorney um which is why we're not in a position to move forward yet because those two items need to run at the same time um and so we would request a continuous to a date certain of March 18th and I think we said Matt 230 was the folks were available at 2 2:30 the only one we have't confirmed with is 230 correct okay so if that works for everyone that would be the request thank you and I'm available to answer any questions that you have okay do we need to make a motion on this or you would you would make a motion and I do see members of the public so we we can handle this a few ways number one once it's continued just to keep the record clear I personally would prefer if you're going to speak on this item about the project or anything related to it since the board will not be getting into that today that you wait until March 18th um I think it's appropriate just for the record to be clear plus that's when the board will be deliberating and making a decision on what's in front of them if you're not available March 18th and you want to make a public comment after the motion specific to the continuance request that is fine um and then it's really up to the board if you want want to hear public comment what we're going to run into though is we're going to have people speaking today which are technically part of the record and then you're going to have the same people showing up on March 18th speaking again probably making the same objection so if you can wait till March 18th please do so if you're unavailable for some date and you'd like to make your objections here um it's it's really a board decision so once we make the motion to continue to a date certain we will open it up to public comment with the disclaimer I just put out there um and we can take it for there so with his continuation we are not hearing anything today from our staff or nothing okay nothing you are not hearing any presentations from staff developer nothing from the city attorney it is just a motion to continue to a day certain strictly because the mailings went out had that not occurred we would have not had this meeting but because those notices said March 4th we have to open it and continue it to a date certain to preserve the due process requirements okay so the motion ultimately is to continue it to March 18th at 2:30 okay item 3A I'll make the motion and let yes yes okay I'll make the motion to approve um changing or continuing the meeting until March 18th at 2:30 second if we could I would prefer the resolution number so I move to continue resolution 2023 d27 I move to continue resolution 20232 uh to March 18th at 2:30 second member hubard yes member conso yes member sea yes Vice chair damper yes chair primer yes motion carries okay now as for public comment before we go on to 3B um Madame clerk if you want to again I would prefer if you can hold off for the records sake that you do so but I do see people here um and I'm not going to prevent them from speaking if the board wishes to hear from them but again we're not getting into substance substantive issues today so call the names Deborah shner excuse me Teresa shead joeo John kurman oh Teresa Teresa's coming up thank you thank you Teresa chead passor girl good morning oh sorry good afternoon first I'd like to thank you for your time and for staff's time it's stunning the amount of paperwork you have to review to make a recommendation on an application I would like to abbreviate some concerns that will hopefully bring you some assistance to your process in applications the city analysis does not a appear to have a financial reconciliation only a presentation of the cost and purported offsetting benefits please consider requesting that staff complete a Reconciliation to include through the entire life of the project while you cannot exchange with me at the moment some at some point could you please explain to the community whose role it is to educate and councel planning members and Commissioners as to your legal standing when making recommendations or decisions the education and the counseling appears to only be directed at the applicants and to their benefit who is representing you you should understand the legal Authority and power you have to make decisions that Shield you from applicant threats and intimidation for instance quotes made to the times regarding the sarata application by two Commissioners indicated they did not understand section 4.1 here is one commissioner's quote we can't compel them to do the project we wish they might do they have the right to do this with their property what is allowed that is not true section 4.1 clearly says certain uses are conditional rather than use by right the article continued that she was inclined to follow the expertise of the planning board and staff planning members pursuant to section 22247 you have the responsibility and duty to conform with the principles of the comp plan the Commissioners are relying on you yet the principle of conditional use allowing when there are only minimal impacts was not honored it is difficult to understand how negotiations were entered into reduce when the applicant's request wasn't even reduced to zero negotiations start at the end of each Spectrum the city's negotiation should have started at zero since the applicants request uses were conditional not rights but here's maybe why you have this sorry this is a bad scribble job this is a page from the analysis that is perhaps unintentionally misleading this section is titled General development requirements rather conditional use request is what you're seeing to help in your review there should be a First Column that shows land uses allowed which would help you to see readily only 30 units per acre yet you are being given the presentation 75 is allowed and now at the Max of your negotiating ceiling the next column should be identified as conditional use there needs to be an updated analysis to include how your recommendations of the serata application will impact our town before you can make a fair recommendations on the trade WIS please stay focused on Section 4.1 review of the commissional use permit applications gives you quote the opportunity to deny the use of its if concerns cannot be resolved please ensure this application is negotiated and resolved so that your recommendations can be a winwin thank you thank you okay so Madame clerk before we get to the next one if you have public comment on the continuance you may speak today if you have public comment on the substantive issues please wait until March 18th I do not know if I'll be available March 18th I'm here today the the record respectfully the applicant doesn't have the ability to cross witness I mean we're not hearing the item today everything is continued I have input for this commission or committee agency uh planning board I'm sorry planning board rename themselves today right the local they didn't rename themselves they're one and the same okay uh I I have input for them um and a lot of it is General okay so if you can't be here on March 18th we'll make a note if you want to speak on March 18th now will be your time well no because I may be available and I will try try to to skip over the slides I have today Mr I will I will try to without having time to prepare I will try to skip over the ones that are focused specifically on this property but some of them are very variable you know very general about the role of these conditional use applications in fact my very first slide is very focused on that and I'll try to skip over the things that are specific to the property but then you're in fact starting your comments now I'm sorry are you starting your comments now no I'm trying to understand if you're I'm trying to understand understand whether I'm going to have to skip over anything that's specific to the trade wins and then be denied my ability I think Matthew was pretty clear if you'd like to speak today that is your prerogative no so I'm I'm going to speak generally um and and try to skip over things specifically because some of these things I've even spoken about at City commission meetings in general and I think it's important I get to express them um I I'm John kurman from be underway South uh I'm not speaking regard yards to beach stewardship um the variances are you do variances all the time and and Zoning variances are actually much more severe and 4.1 tells us that they are very much more severe um and gives us you know and explains that property rights for instance for the large resort districts are really only 30 units per acre and 50 fet and anything beyond that is much more much higher than that uh I up slides I won I won't show you the before and after slide um the defal large resort district is that the in consideration of the larger size and depth of the parcels that are adjacent to the gulf Beaches they created a large resort district and I discussed with the city commission that if that the comprehensive plan covers multiple lots and when the comprehensive plan was done there were specific Lots on the map in the comprehensive plan those are separate lots and all the rules in the comprehensive plan refer to the to the rules of the comprehensive plan which means even if someone combines slots later it wouldn't mean for instance that you could say well I've combined five Lots or I've combined every lot in the whole large resort district and now we'll only need to provide one beach access every lot that is disturbed by more than three acres needs to create its own Beach access and that's the rules that you need to live by As you move forward and you always need to remember section 35 calls for section 39 it says no walls um but it says size and depth of parcel that are adjacent to the gulf beaches remember the word is R remember those guiding lights that we were told at the last hearing it's not just what's in the comprehensive plan it's what's not in the comprehensive plan the comprehensive plan doesn't say oh and if you combine Lots let's treat them as one it's not in the comprehensive plan um and and consider that when you're looking at traffic and we consider that when you're looking at um conditional use the the our plan our comprehensive plan says you go to our website the conditional use is for one year you must do it in one year if you if you start doing things for 5 years 10 years 15 years or 20 years well then you're denying other properties down the Street in the large resort District their building ability to expand would that be fair and then they're going to sue you and say well we didn't get we were deprived and then we'll have said yes to one property not to another so we have to be careful we can't be doing things ahead and so then traffic and then traffic Studies have to be consistent so if if if Plaza Beach tells you that they have two to three cars for every guest you need to be consistent and have your traffic studies consistent with every other hotel and those are my general comments thank Youk you is there any other cards any other comment okay before we move on from this item can I address the applicants Council you can but we've already motioned and approved the continuance okay yeah this is more informational um hello hi um I was just ask I wanted to ask prior to the March 18th hearing would would it be possible to have renderings of garages in just the Gulf Boulevard view R uh entered I'm sorry renderings of the garages and the the view from Gulf Boulevard like at ground level we're working on ground level um we do have a little bit up already that rendering in the pack package um and the problem is if you go ground level it's so wide you can't see any detail we can provide it but you're not going to be able to see anything so we've taken like sections so you can see it and we have one from above so yes let's see let me just make a note is it possible you can do one for each of the five addresses some of the this is five addresses made into one if we could get a street view of each of those that would be very helpful for us or or the phases not necessarily the specific street address but one of the difficulties I think in doing that over this project because it's phased is that for example like the landscape plan and Engineering is not done for phases two through four so they're not going to be accurate like phase one because once you engineer the site things change for example the Landscaping that we would be showing um would be at 50% right Florida vegetation that's what staff has asked if you this board were to come back and ask for something different it wouldn't necessarily look like that so um I we will get you the best that we can it's just that we're going to the the true engineering isn't done at this point in time and so that view from the street when we pull out isn't going to be I think as accurate as you are looking for okay um but we will there are some renderings that have been submitted we will send to Matt and to Brandon additional renderings that you may not have seen so that you have as many renderings they take weeks and weeks and weeks to produce um and I know that we're working on some additional ones for the hearing so we'll go ahead and try to send those out early rather than waiting for the hearing okay um the other question I had was page 495 of the current iteration of the packet has a a full rendering U of the property from above so 20,000 foot view with a with a key that tells you this these buildings are hotels right like the conceptual site plan yeah I was I was just hoping so some of the some of the diagrams like the could I could I look at what you're looking at yeah yeah is that okay Mr primer if I come up uh chair prer she's asking if she can approach yes please it's just that generic oh yes the conceptual s yep okay about that um I was so this diagram has quite a bit of useful information but it's you know it's so small in the PDF you can't blow it up or just becomes unreadable so I was hoping a maybe a higher resolution version of that or in a PDF format so I could zoom in on yeah in fact we will um with with your approval Matt I guess we can um drop off this week the larger format that are clear of the phasing plan and the conceptual site plan I I didn't realize that's what your packet looked like oh yeah um what we submit are like the full renderings so we'll be happy to submit those and then Brandon can get them to each of you okay that that'd be really helpful I didn't realize you didn't have large copies yeah and on a similar note so there's there's diagrams that are of fire access sewer connection all those large those those have useful features in that they Define what some of the buildings are versus the other diagrams that just show existing building but doesn't really tell the story of this is a hotel building this is a restaurant um I was hoping for maybe a combined version so something like this exact document but naming the buildings so I know what each one is so I can look at it from above and say okay here's where the hotel buildings are here's where the restaurants are so instead of tower one this is hotel with this much amenity space restaurant show that overhead so people know what we're referring to yes I just want to make make a couple notes just so so I don't forget absolutely thank you you're welcome anything else thank you thank you okay okay very good thanks thank you so now give it to the clerk I think we're moving on to item 3B uh we have I just want to make a quick a quick question sir real quick can you state your name and address for the record and provide the clerk with a comment card sure can we submit our comments before the next your name and address please in writing your your name and address aen g a y d i n g u c okay I want to submit my comments in writing okay for the next meeting that is very doable um and we can work with you offline I believe there's an email that you can send it to I'll give it to my okay okay okay very good thank you and 3B is that we what we just discussed the continuous that was 3A yes 3B will be continued as well so um like Miss B alluded to there's a development agreement which requires two public hearings the statute in our code allows one of those public hearings to be in front of the local planning agency we are still working through that agreement um which was the purpose of the continuance today so this will also this item will also be continued to 318 318 at 2:30 corre do we need to do a second motion yes please I would prefer a second motion okay you ready for a motion yeah sure um I make a motion to continue resolution 2023-24 to March 18th at 23 so for that one it would be um item 3B the development agreement it's on the back back page of the agenda yes where's the number on it though it doesn't have a number oh it doesn't have a number sorry I saw the one I grabbed that sorry no worries okay so just for the continuance for the uh development agreement correct okay make a motion to uh continue the development agreement to March 18th at 230 second member conso yes member SEO yes Vice chair d yes member hubard yes chair prer yes motion carries okay okay any other discussion items do we need to adjourn as the local planning agent at this point unless there's any discussion items that you'd like to discuss as an LPA seeing none then you can reconvene as the planning board we can adjourn as the planning agency MH so now we're back to the little planning board correct anything like else you'd like to discuss again welcome the new member we've got two items we appreciate your support and I guess staff has some some added things yeah so two things that we wanted to kind of get your guidance on um back in December we passed um an ordinance related to our boat ramp changing the hours to it but also to um come up with a type of permit um for commercial use out of our boat ramp so um that passed by resolution or ordinance the boat ramp hours uh ordinance so the staff um we weren't involved in that process of the ordinance once it got approved we have to come up with a permit to be able to permit this so uh what we came up with and I think Brandon gave you a copy and um was in on on your desk is using a rightaway authorization permit so so um what we need is um one this is the type of permit we're looking at doing but what we don't have in our ordinance is a fee that's associated with this so we kind of want your guidance on what you feel is fair and appropriate for um let's say a seaw wall company that uses our boat ramp to do work or a commercial fisherman um a kayak company there's a lot of Commercial Business um by getting this permit we would one have them on um on file with us that they are doing this they provide Insurance to us and they submit an annual fee similar to our business tax um um that we charge each year so um Brandon do you have any more to add do we have any similar fees from local cities local we we have a similar fee in our code of ordinances which is that the closest we have is for a water water taxi registration at Andy wol and it's $100 I think that was the number we were discussing it's a similar amount of staff time in processing these applications that seemed correct in the right range for us Treasure Island mad beach do they have any such I don't think they charge for commercial use out of their boat ramp okay so it's new to us and around this area so we just went to what we have that's similar like he said the water taxi and similar how we do our water Sports when they um submit for their BTR um they pay per water Craft um but that would be very hard for us we can go out on the beach and let's say they had um on their BTR seven jet skis we can go out and count that um typically when the boat ramps being used we don't know how many vehicles or boats this that contractors has or use or if they they're going to use it so we didn't really want to go per vehicle but again that's for what we'd kind of want to this a one-time fee or each year annual annual okay I do have a question just to confirm this is a recommendation that will most likely be an ordinance format for schedule a as approved by the commission okay just for the public to understand you will have an opportunity to speak on this prior to adoption was there any consideration for the types of usage for instance see wall or you know which is sort of limited one time in and out as opposed to um if you had somebody renting jet skis from a from a boat ramp or kayaks or something like that that that was actually operating their business from that location is there any difference in in have you considered any differences in the in the fee structure because it seems to me one was more intrusive than the other there is there was some thought process because obviously there are some commercial uses that use them every day and um and then there's some that when they're needing like a seaw wall to when they're doing work in the area um some are small family businesses and some are very large businesses so um a deeper fee would would cut into like let's say a commercial fisherman that um has a small operation and and goes out to get uh fish that he sells to one of the local restaurants um as opposed to some of the large contractors that are out there so the type of business is varied um so you don't you know I think all that could be considered so if you wanted to look at a tiered thing that's something that we can that sounds much more fair well and the thought process was if you're a marine contractor and you're using a our boat ramp to deliver supplies for a dock on the city that's through a rideway permit which we already do the idea for this ordinance was specific because there were issues that the public were dealing with with a commercial rental business utilizing our dock for commercial purposes which is what this permit would be utilized for right so if you're using our dock to get equipment to a job site that's obviously different than hey come rent this jet ski and I'm going to dock it right here for you so it's already extinguished is is what I'm trying to get at um when it comes to those two separate situations and that is not covered by this type of permit no this permit is for commercial use right so I'm running a business and I need to rent something and I'm going to go ahead and let you enter the water at a bone ramp so we we would effectively if you will I mean this is a little bit of stretch from that lease out a place of business for $100 a year no no this this would strictly be I'm paying $100 to use this boat ramp to allow my clients to enter the water because remember most of our jet skis are behind the resorts right all right let's talk about kayaks or something like that if you if you you have your kayak trailer there you park your kayak trailer there they come and they they rent it they they put their kayak in they bring it back you're effectively running your business from that location but in order to run a business in the city you need a business tax receipt right which has a principal place of business which would not be city property right so their their principal location of business could not be the boat ramp yeah he's just saying they monopolize the time at the boat ramp every morning when they're loading 18 kayak that yes but this is a lot more control because we can look in our system and say okay these are who have permits this is who we're getting the complaints about maybe we set some parameters the next year on their BTR um but really it was the hours of operation right there were people using way past 10 and 11:00 disturbing neighbors a lot of noise you know things of that nature this gives us control I think we discussed it when we T was doing the beach ordinance and then we were looking at the boat Rams for the waterways ordinance this just kind of skipped up and we got it done to limit the close the time of the boat ramp at 10:00 which mirrors our our noise ordinance um and and we can come back to you we wanted we were planning on doing this March 18th but clearly we're not doing that on March 18th so we thought we had a little more time to put something together but since we had the ordinance passed in December wanted you guys to get ahead of It kind of get a sense I'm sensing a tiered model yes is something you'd like to see we can come back with specifics um we just wanted to start that discussion so we could we could do this in April there's nothing going on on right so um okay and then one other item we wanted to quickly discuss and again we we were planning on doing this in a couple weeks but um through this process that we've been going through with our conditional use permits we find what we initially get from the application is very minimal so it's a lot of chasing after for certain things um even some of recent um cups like we still need this item we still need an updated site plan we still need this so I think Brandon has a couple slides but um the conditional use application again what's required just to turn it in is not a lot and so while we are reviewing it we are chasing a lot of times which then you're waiting schedule a time when something's going to be heard and there's still items that we didn't so I think Brandon's got a couple suggestions that we're looking at that just we get the complete pack package from the beginning and yes we're going to probably change things and look for other things as we review but there's a lot of um back and forth that I think is not productive for staff's time yeah if we could pull up the slides and this is only four projects moving forward um this isn't related to anything that's currently in the office but um currently I'll go through it on the next Slide the city has very limited requirements for conditional use permit submittals uh the planning board is only the most among the most significant developments those are hotels that are over 50 ft in height or 30 in per acre within the community redevelopment District um staff would like to have just as a policy an expanded minimum submittal list to applicants to ensure that plans are ready for technical Review Committee and planning board when they're submitted instead of collecting those documents in the back end we're not going to get everything initially for every project there are going to be certain elements of projects especially very large um developments that we're probably going to have to work through a TRC or even possibly planning board but just a an initial submitt list is what we're hoping to come up with that's more involved than what we currently have in the code um So currently we require a completed application proof of ownership agent authorization a survey it needs to be current it needs to be less than 10 years old and it that we need a scaled site plan um you know compared to what you're seeing in your packets you know 5 600 Pages this is obviously very minimal we ask for a lot more at the start and for bigger projects we tend to get more than this but this is what's required at a minimal smittle um through our code it's it's only really two uh substantial documents that are produced by the applicant plus the applications and and supporting documents so these are items that for the developments um that we've seen recently that we've either required at the start or have required as time's gone on either through the technical Review Committee your planning board uh the first is a zoning Matrix you tend to see these on the site plans these are the breakdown of all of the standards in the city's code and how the project either complies or doesn't comply with that um impervious surface ratio the floor area of the building the parking requirements and so on those would all be items that are shared in the zoning Matrix um we would like to get elevations of all sides of the structure in color a lot of times you see the um renderings of the project um other times it's just a flat elevation and Architectural elevation we would like to you know ensure that the planning board can see what the uh the elevations of the project will look like a landscaping plan um again the the conditional use permit is the the first step in the process from there it goes to site plan it goes to building permit if the Project's approved so there may not be exact vegetation layout but we would like to at least get a vegetation schedule what kind of plants are going to be planted get a general buffer design what what is the width going to to be where the beach access and things like that going to be in cases where they're required a transportation study methodology the city only requires Transportation studies when the project is expected to generate more than 51 peak hour trips most large Hotel projects will pass that threshold um so in the case that they will uh we would like to make sure that that's appli or supplied at an early stage and then a draft transportation management plan I think it says down at the bottom there um these are the addition items that all projects need to submit there needs to be some kind of Transportation impact mitigation with smaller project these can be things like impact fees um I believe when serata came forward he saw items like uh the circulator contributions and so on those are all part of what the city requires through its transportation management plan and it scales based on the size of the project so these are things that we would like to see specifically for projects of a size that would come to the planning board we're still working through the details in smaller projects conditional use permits run the gamut from three unit uh docks multif family docks all the way up to very larg Hood hell projects so we need to come up with something for the for the smaller projects in particular but for the planning board and we we received some feedback today on uh labeling of buildings um you know what are the uses within each buildings and multi-building developments but is there anything else that you would like to see that was included with either prior to submittals that wasn't included with those projects that you would like to see moving forward to make sure that we have those available for you when it gets to planning board I'd like to see more specifics on the traffic studies okay if we hear that more than anything else from the public is that all right trade when's going to do this ganic expansion and they're saying it's only a 2% Transportation impact please don't mention specific projects okay I'm sorry uh for any project um a uh the methodology used for the traffic study and if there's a standard such study if there's a St a standard by which everything else is judged so that would be some kind of confirmation that the the methodology being used is standardized across the industry or with with other projects that's what you're looking for okay and to go with that Transportation also if if we can have something that that says when you have a limited number of hotel rooms um so that that we and and the public can see it understand the impact that those rooms are realistically going to place on the roadways specifically if there's if there's 200 additional units um and and the the hotel has got a typical occupancy of 75% and and of those 200 rooms there there's you know there's only we're not going to have 200 Cars mhm and all 200 cars are not going to leave and come back and be on the street at the same time so if if if those kind of basic Su To Nuts kind of discussions because when we get into peak hours and all that stuff that that's great except those particular units what are those particular units going to what's our our our estimation what those particular units are going to add to our streets because we have so many other things entering loading our streets and the biggest ones obviously pelis County you okay so you would be looking for and correct me if I'm wrong wrong you would be looking at possibly more than just the peak hour and you would also be looking at based based on occupancy you would want estimates based on that or yeah okay because if you have a hotel you don't occupy it 100% 100% of the time okay and so give us have them give you their their expectations based on you know obviously they're going to have an existing Hotel this is kind of the the what we see based on our loading and our in our parking garages now they can make some very good estimates on what if those 200 rooms those 500 rooms going to mean on our streets period you're saying just to clarify are you saying more so like if it's got 500 right now and it goes to 700 that's where that 200 is coming from that you want them to focus on is just that 200 down yeah just that 200 because the other 500 are already here right right and a lot of times the studies do account for things like that but I think we could probably make it more clear and have our consultant you know present what they did in reviewing that I think that that'd be good for us but I also think it'd be good for the citizens to understand what sounds like a huge number at the end of the day is is X instead of Y so the overall project but then the the specific increase is what you be look okay okay okay and then from earlier um you know especially for more complex projects it sounds like a an overhead rendering or some kind of rendering that gives you an idea of where the the uses on the site are right and street level street level yeah and I think um obviously I know that they I don't mean to talk specific to that I know there was the the um option given today as far as getting fullsize renderings um you know for us to be able to see them that would be helpful I think with any project uh you know it's going to be a larger project because otherwise to the point of what member hubard showed I mean that's that's pretty tiny for us to try and figure out exactly what it is so okay and I know it's an expense um but I think it's something that would be a worthwhile expense for us to have a better evaluation got it okay okay thank you we just wanted to get a little more teeth in the application itself absolutely not change the process but the what we get in the beginning very good Jen if I may Kristen Coman senior planner I also just wanted to bring up I know we're talking about kind of big picture items whether it's transient housing that kind of thing um but we do have other conditional uses some zones we have like veterinarians or conditional uses so kind of think outside the box even car rental agency not just the big guys but also the little which you may want to see um and we'd be happy to provide you we have a list of permitted and conditional uses just it's broken down by use and broken down by zone so you can kind of get a bird's eye view of if you just roll down them what what's permitted where and what are conditional uses in certain zones that might be helpful too okay we'll get that to you thank you so we'll prepare a new um application for our meeting in April that you guys can review a little bit more but we wanted to kind of get the ball rolling and get your thoughts um for us so thank you okay I do have another public comment I'm sorry I have a public comment from Cynthia Perry if you're ready if not hold on to it it's up to you I don't know what it's what it's on but it's up to the board if it's on it's probably on something that was just discussed J yeah please thank you very much uh my name is Cindy Perry I live at 1126 boka sea a drive and I've brought this up before but I keep trying to make it clear I'm a retired project management professional certified by the project management Institute I would never be able to bring forth any of the projects that have been brought brought forth to you all without a complete financial analysis that doesn't mean it doesn't have assumptions it doesn't mean that there aren't estimates that are clearly docum documented but I can't believe we go into these projects and we don't know the impact on the resident taxes I do not want to subsidize the hotels I've said that before just in general there should be a process in the economic imp impact analysis that truly looks at the financials and doesn't have statements like it'll likely do this or that I could never get a project approved the way we approve projects here so I'm willing to help if somebody needs some guidance on how to approach this but the comprehensive plan says that businesses should be paying 30 to 40% of the tax burden they're currently playing less than 20 and nobody seems to notice and people look at the bed tax and the bed tax doesn't come to the city the residents are supplementing the businesses and that needs to be thoroughly looked at thank you abolutely I have another comment John kurman be very brief John kurman he already SP on Way South to the item just discussed joh you already you already spoke Oh I thought it was just to the item just discussed okay all right thank you question Matthew after after hearing and this really applies to our board and how how we proceed after after listening to the comments that was made by our commission concerning uh Lobby specifically and the reporting of those um I would like some clar ification on that U specifically the the list of Lo lobbyists now is getting long quite quite long and and and they talked about about uh different individuals who are not necessarily registered lobbyists but are lobbying for a thing when lobbyists call I it was it was brought up that that there's a list of the lobbyists and you should have front of you and I think one of the Commissioners said I keep it on my desk well I don't have a desk anymore and I don't carry those lists with me so can can we request or require the lobbyists to identify themselves if they call us and say my name is XYZ I'm a I'm a registered lobbyist with the city of St Pete Beach and I have discussions on app absolutely I mean they should be doing that anyways um because there are other statutory prohibitions when it comes to lobbyists like what if you meet for coffee they're not supposed to buy you I mean there's other things that go into to lobbyists I will say every year lobbyists have to renew right now I believe we only have a handful five or six registered lobbyists in the city so we don't really have that many um I'll confirm a lot more than that we constantly getting do it every year well they have to do it every year but I mean just this year I mean like well maybe maybe they it seems like a lot but ironically for the city there's a lot of lobbyists that are representing multiple people for multiple projects so it's the same set of lobbyists every time um but yes they they should be disclosing that because they're the ones required to register you're the ones required to disclose who you've spoken to and even if you spoken to No One a simple I haven't spoken to anyone with the clerk will suffice with the requirements of what we're asking for right so if you don't speak to anyone don't just ignore it just say I've spoken to no one and then it'll be a zero right you haven't spoken to anyone on this um but if anyone calls you about a specific project and if you remember the presentation I gave on ethics and Gifts your first question should be what did this person want right why are they calling me and you should you feel free to ask them are you a lobbyist have you registered with the city cuz it is a new ordinance most people don't even know about it what we've done is we've included the lobbyist registration as part of any development application variance C so on and so forth to elude attorneys and Consultants that they need to file that um but please if I were you I would be asking the same question are are persons of I think you you the term was Persons of Interest uh that have to do with a project or has neighbors around you know people who have in uh how do we know are we responsible for reporting for instance today we we received uh through the clerk's office uh three letters three or four letters from three letters residence to us advocating a position on on things that we're going to be reviewing are and we didn't do a a expart at the beginning of this to say you know have would that be expart when when they when it comes through the commission it comes to us does I mean that is expart so on March 18th when we say does anyone like to disclose any exp parte Communications um you would say emails and letters from residents right so the whole deal with X parte is anything that you've received outside of the record you need to disclose on the record it comes through City Hall that's considered on the record so we don't have xart it's not considered on the record the record is begun when the matter begins okay right the record is begun when the matter begins yeah okay so right now in my opinion the record hasn't started which is why I suggested that if they had things to to say they should wait until the 18th but the moment that is heard and staff presents and everyone goes through their presentations that is the record okay I'm still a little confused on that I'll be that's fine so like from the city if there's something that's sent to us from Jenny then we still have to to say we we got that is that what you're is especially if you read it yes okay you should okay be because you're because you're you're taking in information outside of you sitting here got it okay right if that if that's easier to understand right like if you're meeting as a board and you're taking in information so is everyone else so you don't have to disclose anything but if you meet with a neighbor or developer an attorney or a group of neighbors and you get all these emails and you read them and all of a sudden you're starting to take in knowledge but that's still I guess that's where I'm like when I'm hearing you describe it there it sounds like it's more direct to personal versus coming from the city that's that's where the ones that's where I'm confused on is if it's already coming through the city isn't it already on record we all receive the same email but we don't make expart disclosures for you individually okay okay but I don't have any communication with anybody outside of what I get from the city I still have to say you still received it correct I still have to say Okay the city sent me it's uh it's saying outside of public hearing you weigh information that was presented even though it's all part of our public packet well even though it was proxy through the city at good point at the hearing that's why I'm confused on it yeah it's a good point if it's part of the public packet then it's technically not yeah that's X parte so to speak um but to be safe because remember expar the reason you're disclosing it is to cure it right you disclosing is curing your experte Communications and remember you're all sitting as quasi judges and as a judge you wouldn't want one party to get access to you and the other party not be there um so in a precaution I would just still simply say emails from resident's letters because they're going to come in bulk beginning now right so um I would just make that statement on March 18th we don't have to list the name just I received you have to be able you have to provide enough for the applicant to understand them but if they're part of the record it's simply just cuz a lot of the emails are the same and repetitive and have the same exact template right so you don't need to read it verbatim but you can just say emails from residents and through the city one more and and I don't know how I don't need to but obviously this was a big enough point that it took a lot of discussions at one of the commission meetings earlier this year um I was was uh approach I think our entire board was about setting up a meeting you're just scheduling not anything about the stuff just scheduling a meeting are those when nothing's been discussed about it about it is that expar Communications also did you attend a meeting the meeting was never held then no I'm talking about just that phone call if it's just a coordinating then no okay coordination remember it has to be information that you're receiving about the specific application if if they're just saying hey are you available on March 12th I mean that's not really about the specific application that's what I anticipated want to make sure good questions okay um in anticipation for March 18th I'm looking at this incredible binder that uh that David brought with um it's uh I attempted to get through all 7 100 Pages prior to this meeting not knowing where it's going to be continued um so we can be prepared for the 18th do we have we gone over all all 800 of these Pages there's going to be a 4our meeting 8 hour meeting 10hour meeting do we know no okay we don't we don't so it's possible I mean there's a lot of variables there right like how long does staff need how long does applicant need how many people show up for public comment sure do we do we limit anything or do we not I mean because right now everyone gets three minutes if there's 100 people I mean that's 300 minutes right there it's roughly five hours right so um it's just hard to tell but we're starting a little earlier so that we're not here until the am hours okay hopefully hopefully okay very good go back to David's telephone book there Atlas or whatever anyways um all I'm see in looking at what I what I saw also that there was a huge amount of tertiary information that's that's provided it doesn't seem to apply to the cup and and to those elements within the cup that have to be addressed for for a variance um they're they're very specific in in the Land Development code and you know I mean um so I I guess I'm I'm wondering at what level are we supposed to be you know are we supposed to be experts on this for this to come because we have staff we have we have the the representations for from the applicants and the representations from from uh other professionals that are going to be in front of us but plus city manager and City attorney yeah yeah but but you know I mean there's one it talks about transportation and it's very specific in there about how that Transportation works and and if if you know if if it's presented and it's in here this how many parking spaces we need this is how how the traffic flow is going to you know it's very specific in here does it does it have to go on to you know the variegation of the leaves on each plants so are you required to be experts no right are you required to rely on Expert testimony and lay person testimony as long as it's fact-based and making a decision if the criteria is met yes right you're making your decision based on competent substantial evidence which is provided to you by the city's expert the applicant experts there may be public experts that they hire and fact-based layers testimony right but you all have had professions outside of probably planning and developing things of that nature so no one expects you to be an expert although after the last meeting it seemed like a lot of the citizens in the city did which I think is is is a tall ask um but you're here as a judge right you're making a decision based on evidence that you hear and criteria that you review that's it okay good answer fair enough okay keeping me on my toes today rapid fire is there any other uh comments we need to get into the record I uh I would like to make a general comment in uh response to Cindy Perry's uh statements um just to get on the soap box for a second it would be nice if pelis would give us back some of the bed tax money they collect they uh unfortunately we don't probably matter enough with the number of votes our city represents to have them do that when they can spend it on other things but amen that is the way it is well and and I'd like to just double down on that I mean after the hurricane we lost an entire Dune system in passor Grill and guess what was used to rebuild it panel's County bed tax money yep and that was what 12 I mean I don't know six maybe eight1 million right so although we don't see it all the time it it did what we needed it to do and we got the dunes restored rather quickly I would say by the county so just keep that in mind like you may not not get it and be able to spend it but you do get the benefits of it in certain situations thank you for that red tide as well may anything else okay okay well thanks everybody for coming we'll see everybody uh if not before we'll see you on the 18th meeting is a journey nice