I hereby call to order this regular scheduled meeting of the progress the time is 6:31 our first order of business will be to approve the minutes of our last meeting on March 12th 2024 and motion we approve the minutes from March 12th seconded all those in favor i i two nothing Jeff all righty our first new business is going to be our accounting contract yes yes um so last year we switched accountants um we heard aony and aony um and so far I've been very pleased with with the work they've done they've um gotten us caught up they got us free cash earlier than last year um been working really hard uh put together a proposal that was an increase of $200 a month um which is uh sorry I'm trying to think about what percentage that would be but um so about $2,400 a year um so I think it it would be well worth it I mean I've I've been really impressed with with their responsiveness and their um their ability to just jump right in and help us figure out what's going on I mean I was very impressed with their ability to within short order get us all caught up in free cash this year was months ahead of where it was last year um so I've been very happy and we've had many discussions about how hard it is to find good Municipal accounting to begin with so if we have a good Municipal accounting I'm all for continuing that Arrangement great I think 2400 T are reasonable for and we'll look you will see in the budget that it's our expenses for accounting are going down from last year partially because we didn't know what we were going to do and so we had right and then that software that we can discontinue use of right we're pay we have different software it's less expensive about right but weren't we running two softwares last FAL year y so that'll be that'll be look y y um all right do you need a motion or anything like that on that yes please all right all right I motion we is it extend the contract or is it renew or um extend yeah all right so I am I motion we extend the contract with a pony and a pony at a rate of a $200 a month increase 00 a month y 5200 a month yeah it was 5,000 a month last oh I said right with a $200 increase increase yes yes okay all right seconded all those in favor I I do nothing Jeff thank you all righty next up is the frontier uh end request yes um so Frontier excess and deficiency and if any of the school committee members want to correct me if I get this wrong um is basically the Region's free cash um so funds that they budgeted for but didn't spend they are requesting a reallocation of $200,000 um to do maintenance and equipment needs and replacing the fire alarm panel system so uh we have 45 days from March 12th to vote um and if we don't vote then it passes anyway so okay this was an item that we had or some of these were items we had talked about at the frontier Capital planning committee meeting um so I'm glad to see they're being taken care of in house without requiring you know further action um I have no concerns about it at all Chrystal do you have anything you wanted to I have no concern I mean a fire panel and stuff I would guess the fire panel is probably the that's the big ticket item yeah the big ticket item and yeah yeah we need a work fire system yes no one perishing in in horrible Flames is good um do you just need a regular motion on that yes please all right crystal I in motion we allow for the use of end for the requests put through Frontier all right seconded all those in favor i i two nothing D thank you wonderful all righty next up we have mowing bids yep another quick one so I have the bid prepared um the recommendation was to make the rule for award the lowest bidder um with the option of taking the lowest bidder within a certain percentage if they have all electric so um wanted to ask the select board what that percentage was make sure that that was okay because we had discussed you know um hiring an all electric mowing company if possible possible y if we even get any bids for it yeah so my thought is you know looking at something comparable to what we've paid in the last few years you know we could possibly go 10% higher for all electric maybe five you know and again these are just numbers I'm throwing out you know um 5% higher for part electric if there's a way to you know because partial electric I think leaf blowers weed whackers things like that are a cost are easily to you know transition to Electric versus m versus going out you know in order to meet this bid and buying electric mowers yeah well and we can leave it to the biders to justify in their bid what their percentag is if they come in and say we are a 40% electric company they can come in they they can say you know our average job is a $2,000 job and $1,400 that is is is dollars that we would attribute to these electric vehicles we're going to say that we're a 70% you know operation whatever um so that we don't have to spend the next month and a half trying to determine exactly how we want to judge that and then just said it as 100% electric would be a 10% increase and whatever percentage they come in at would be that percentage increase so if they if they come in and say that they're a 60% electric shop and their bid is within 6% of the of the lowest fully gas bid you know and and if the lowest bid is a 20% shop they can also be PR rated by that 20 by that 2% because they're you know basically we can we can adjust all of the bid percentages by the percentage that they are of 10% of all electric um and then you know that that that covers all of those contingencies does that make sense to yep yeah I mean you know I there's going to be there's a cost to going all electric because obviously it often involves more expensive equipment um but just for you know disclosure for everyone the the the bid we're looking at is $188,000 currently they the contract um I think it was about 16 or 17 okay this year which so if if we if we did have a bid come in in comparable prices again not talking about inflation comparable prices with with full electric we'd be looking at spending another $1600 on that bid currently it's infl for inflation maybe it's going to cost a town $2,000 or so dollars I think that's a reasonable amount to I I can justify that in terms of cost of town for an all electric mowing I think it's you know a worthwhile Endeavor right I mean we can't obviously double the price to have all electric so no but I think 10% for fully electric you know R rated down to zero for fully gas would be would be appropriate okay thank you all right do you need a vote on that or clarification okay great all right uh last order of new business is ditches yeah um just been getting calls about ditches um and concerns about uh water and Fields flooding um so I I will say that I drove around and this was um last week and the week before it's been a little bit drier but the last couple weeks I've been driving around Hadley and Deerfield as well because those are some of the examples of towns that at least people in Sunderland look to and say those towns are doing it right um and I I saw water in their fields too uh it's a wet spring so I I don't know how much of it is related to the ditches but um I know that there is still a desire of some people in town um to have the town take over maintenance of the ditches um currently we're not legally allowed to um because they're on private property so you know I think that where the town had left it previously is it doesn't make sense for the town to take it over unless all Property Owners agree because if you have one property owner that doesn't and they don't maintain the ditch then there's no point in maintaining the rest of right because it's going to hit that that filled in right uncleaned out space and it's still going to backlog and right so basically when we say all Property Owners agree we're looking at getting an easement from all Property Owners to be able to drive onto their property clean with Town equipment clean out the ditches I don't yeah I mean I don't think that we have the equipment I think that we'd probably have to rent it or whatever or hire it or hire it but we would still need is it do we do we need an easement in order to do that yes we would need some sort of property interest in order to yeah do work on on their on private property and in the past requests for easements have been sent out and don't know about that okay so I mean maybe that's the first step is that we send out a a letter to all of the people who would be who would have easements that we would need to get just saying hey like this is something the town is considering doing not saying we're doing it but we're considering doing if we were to come to you saying we'd like to get an easement would you be willing to sign one and if everybody comes back and says oh yeah would love for you to do that that' be great then we have a whole different discussion if we come back and 30% of the people are saying yes and 70% are saying heck no get off my property then we we have a different conversation well there's a cost going to be associated with that right with the easement yeah yep so we can ask for donations appeasements um but otherwise we have to pay fair market value and get them assess uh appraised and and um right there is a cost to it yeah so that's another concern right we're not just sign here yeah no I know um it's a ditch though come on how much it cost really so that I'm kidding I'm kidding no but right but if if if they want to drive through your yard to get to that little Brook behind your house yeah and there's also what what I learned from when we did this at on North Main Street is the value of the easen is proportional to the size of the property and so you know if they have a small property and the ditch takes up a big portion they could be getting a lot more than somebody who has a big ditch on their property but has a big property and so there might be some you know neighbor disputes about that too but you know we could at least certainly make um you know compile that list and reach out to the property owners and just gauge interest in either we have an idea from cuz I know at one point there was a ditch committee that disbanded right mhm do we have any idea of how many properties individual homeowners there are along these so-called ditches I I can look in the report I don't know off the top of my head if it's in there or not all right yeah no I'm just wonder if we're looking at I think we're going to be looking at quite a large is I got one going through my backyard I'm sorry I got one going through my backyard I mean I I guess the question I have is rather than moving the direction of having the town take over doing it can we move in the other direction where we find a way to incentivize through tax picks or something like that the people who have them on their property maintaining them properly like if if can we have some sort of reimbursement thing where where if you come to us and show us that you hired a contractor to come out here and clean out the brush and whatnot the town will reimburse you for that that kind of thing right but I think the bigger issue becomes and and again I'm not going to guarantee that this is a true ditch but if we take from the bridge near our street down to where that goes that if one person doesn't clean out their chunk yeah you've in you know you've given an incentive to everybody else but you still have no result because everybody didn't do it yeah point so I think you're I think it's a it's a tough one because the whole thing has to be maintained in order for this to work at least in from what I can understand of it it does yep and that's been the problem in the past right is you can have some nice beautiful wide open but if it backs up in front of all that if you just have one problem with beavers right by a bridge and all of a sudden you have a flooded field you know yeah it's a tough one and and I don't want to minimize the the flooding and the damage and and the the water problems this is doing to people's Fields I'm just I'm not sure what the right way to move with that is I think we need to look at that though anything old that can get dug up from that ditch committee yep no and you know I'm sure there's multiple there's obviously not just one ditch in town There's multiple ones and even if we can work towards a 5-year plan on them or something you know we're going to take care of this section or you know get the information yeah but you know this section here is Priority One this is priority two you know to work on getting the easements and the whatever we might need to be able to actually do this yep and again once we know where they are once we can evaluate maybe we attempt a pilot on one of those chunks right we go through we we identifiy the property owners we look you know in in that one chunk is what we take and kind of test it out right is cleaning this out is were we able to get first legally what we need to be able to do this work well I think you make a good point that that we can treat each ditch separately that if we if we have everyone agreeing to eement on one ditch cool the rest of them can all say no and we can go ahead with that one ditch and also if we work from the river backwards if we have the first 10 people from the river back Upstream that all say yes that's a worthwhile section to work on because then everything Downstream that you know that's all protected the only problem you have is when when when you the first person who says no everything you know is a problem from there but if we can you know get get trunks that are or even identify problematic trunks maybe that all of the the maybe the whole thing's not an issue maybe there's just three or four places where beavers like to make some trouble or where there's a little bit of a curve in it or a funkiness or some rocks or something like that where it gets you know gets trapped up if we anecdotally collect information about where the problems are if we get easements on those two or three spots we might be able to do some some maintenance that's helpful without needing to have everybody um especially if the property owners who are having flooding are the same property owners who have the sections that are problematic on their property they may be very motivated to give us the the easement we need in order to I think that's probably a little more the opposite right probably the people who are reaching out to you are people who are maintaining their sections very well and the people down Upstream of them are not and they're getting yeah no so I believe that's probably more the issue we're looking at here yeah um and Nathaniel since you mentioned the word stream that's another thing to think about is at some point ditches can be considered perennial streams at which point we have to talk to the Conservation Commission if we're doing anything um so I will also start a conversation with them about whether they consider any of the ditches streams and and if if they are if let's say we decide all the ditches are streams because at least mine certainly runs enough of the year that I think it would be a good you know argument for that um what did that do in terms of the legality of that like can the town is there a eminent domain kind of a thing you can do with that if this is a a stream that the town needs to maintain there is less we can do with a stream we can do this okay they are more protected we okay so so it's okay then rather than the town having more responsibility to maintain it it's more the town has more responsibility to leave at the heck alone and not do anything to preserve it okay okay that's the thing okay yeah I mean I think we just again and I'm not trying to minimize any of it I wasn't here when this ditch committee was you know up and running and you know you weren't here I don't even know where these are these the the chunks they're calling a ditch versus a brook a stream uh yeah so if we can find anything that has a map or has these locations identified we'll talk about it again but you know again I I'm we can't do it all overnight and you know we might have to actually look at it and maybe identify an area to Pilot see what we can do so that again we're not incurring all this cost immediately find out and again we talk to other towns and you know do they have a every five year clean out do they every two years do they clean them out every single year you know what type of rotation or you know how much maintenance you know if you find you know and again they they've identified other towns they feel like this is working well in right so those might be towns we can talk to and say what is the maintenance plan for these is it yearly maintenance is it a 3-year rotation you know we need to get some type of idea well and just big picture- wise let's say that I am living Downstream with somebody who's not maintaining a chunk of the of the ditch it floods it floods my house I have property damage what's the legality of that can that homeowner go after another homeowner for not maintaining something on their property that cause a thing or is that considered an act of God is there like I'm assuming the town's not any High liability for that because we don't have access that's that's private property and we don't you know we don't have liability there but like how does that work um is that is the homeowner Downstream of somebody just really out of in out of luck and has to continually have their basement flood and and deal with their insurance company and stuff I mean I the short answer is there's an area of law called repairing rights and it deals with I think it deals with it originated so that people couldn't Dam a BRI Dam a stream and stop people from getting water Downstream but there are some rights that people have versus Upstream I don't know specifically if you know flooding these are primarily farmland and stuff like that right these aren't really heavily residential areas where the where the true ditches are considered to be right I mean there are ditches I think there's a ditch that goes from 116 sort of behind the Southern houses on Old ammer um yeah but I mean you know south of that is Fields so you know um I guess I would say that they border neighborhoods but um a lot of it is through Farmland yeah yeah and of course where you live was Farmland not too many years ago there's a handful of of developments like that exactly that are that used to be a farm plot um the main reason I'm asking is that if we find out that the legality does give the homeowner Downstream of the person Upstream some kind of right to go after them over that that would be a selling point for us in our ask for donations of the um easements because we say hey turns out if you don't maintain this chunk of the of the thing and your neighbor Downstream gets their basement flooded they there's actually something they can do about that and you could get you could end up being in trouble I I don't know if it's the case or not I'm saying if we find out that was the case that would be a so I had a similar thought and Town Council said the town should not provide legal advice don't don't that is a very fair position to take and probably a smart one yes cuz it almost sounds like blackmail no I mean no I mean it's it's yes I I I could see I could see how that would be but no I mean it's context how I would I I understand exactly what you're saying it's I mean it's a matter of wording and different people take word and all that other money and all that other stuff aside I think that everyone in town can agree that we like suland the way it is and we don't want it to go back to being called swamp field because we like to not have swamps everywhere um so I I I I sure certainly hope that people in town especially those people around the ditches who have who have them on their property would be at least amenable to have a discussion about it but we probably talked about enough today we can leave at that um yeah I think Jeff's got quite a few items about these we we will put that as an old business item for a future meeting um so that's our last piece of new business uh up first for old business would be operating budget review yeah before we get to that um we had talked previously about maybe moving public comment up before old business and we have some members of the public so I didn't know if you wanted to do that that's a very I think that would be I probably should ask you a while ago to talk about anything I just he to be here for the public hi there good evening I'm jus live AT3 Street I wanted to talk about the town ofmer their recent decision to Halt construction of the outdoor ports due to Neighborhood noise concerns I'm wondering if the town of Sunderland has plans to review any site uh design plans of sunl wall ports at ride park with the Buddy neighbors uh the library any other residents and then also study will be conducted on these M ports at Theos location Jeff do you have any answer to those questions um I mean there I think that we had raised the fence from 6 to 8 ft we' talked about doing a planting along the fence if noise was an issue but that was the extent of so the the fence that you would do the planting along is like the stockade fence right Town side yeah on the town side but that was if there was noise complaints that was my it's not part of the initial design correct okay okay so short answer is that we we took any consideration um we didn't specifically do a noise study um but we are we had took concern consideration um as it raised the the the height of the defense and I think also if I'm corre remember corly wasn't there option to put like those metal slacks inside the um like weave did they get weaved into the the CH like fence and that's an additional noise barrier there was something the guy had said about that barrier they said it didn't really reduce noise noise okay I think I'm remember that in correct yeah that just stops people the distraction of movement outside the fence right okay I don't believe that's um but yeah the the the row of Hedges was our primary thought there um and would that help reduce noise there's already a line of arbores against that wooden fence line that above um 121 North Main Street so I'm just wondering how effective that would be to be honest I have no idea I'm you know not an engineer or anything of that um is there an opportunity for the town Sunland to reach out to a Butters of the space to review the site plans and solicit feedback was that part of something already no so yeah when it was an application for the CPA we reached out um most of the abutters didn't voice concerns um they there was a request to move it West closer to the river but because of the riverfront 200t Riverfront buffer um it couldn't accommodate that site yeah so the River Walk path being built you still accomodations that can make to that it's um the Riverwalk is a per whatever the opposite of impervious is porous um whereas these would be paved and so yeah yeah that was where I wanted I'm also curious there's a lot of events at the Sunland Public Library particularly in um uh summer and fall the outdoor story times they even had some um I think duck world came out they have some ducking heast running around on the area if you're hearing the Conant ping ping ping which I'm hearing uh disable levels is equivalent of free R Traffic how effective are those events going to be you get more people in that space in that noise that area let alone the residential homes adjacent um I mean you know that's part of a larger conversation about where we have stuff in in this town and we already have baseball fields right there and the Ping of a baseball off of a of metal bat is about the same as the Ping of a you know so it's apples and oranges at that point um though that's fair that's that's fair um but there's also ambient noise from people cheering and from umps and things like that and so you know yes it would be ideal if we could have more separation from the butters it would be ideal if we have more separation from the the library from the town offices all around um we looked at a lot of different options the ones we wanted were unfortunately not feasible because as I said the the the River location um were were Bound by what the law says we can do there um and this was really the only location that worked for all of those things and I'm well aware that it's not ideal in all respects um but it is what people in town voted on and forward with we don't know or I'm I'm sure they have to actually be constructed and up and before there's time abuse and stuff on those courts they're not how when they're going to be open I mean we can set regulations if depends on how is somebody going to be responsible for locking for opening are we just going to say open D do you know right um who's going to enforce that yeah no I'm just thinking of other ways to mitigate it by you know if there was time of use you know that they have noise reduction padels I hear um time constraints that could probably help but an ounce of preventions worth pound of cure knowing that the town of ammer just got vocal from local residents regarding this location and the CPA funds um that $15,000 grant that was applied for that was for abide Park we didn't have a specific this is the design neighbors what do you feel about this um so if you can look at sound proofing the area to help minimize because it is very close you got a 30ft wide volleyball field my understanding from the design plans I got from Jeff this morning it's right uh next to the sidewalk it's very close to the volleyball courts and right I thought there was a good chunk of space between the sidewalk and the no it's pretty it's pretty close and it was originally um you know I heard pickle ball cour one and now it's gone plural so there's two I think it's worth visiting a town of sun on the sound study just again the ounce of uh prevention cuz it's going to become an issue and then it's how you regulate the noise yeah particularly with the outdoor events too at the Sunland Library I I don't know if the uh Board of Trustees was involved in this decision about the pball courts if they reviewed the design location with them but I can remember um during Co they had a lot of outdoor events for the community and you had over 100 people that were lined up right where the proposed all site is right now Riverside Park um for Farm dog for Farm um dog and and local tricks for canines at frisbe throwing this and that and that's taken away we've had Town meetings in the past there two other right there's been town events there where there were um food trucks set up out in that area that you know well and and unfortunately we can't put the pickle ball court closer to the water but we can utilize the space that is in the zone we can't build on that is closer to the water so we can shift around and whatnot so you know yes there are things that we're there that we're going to have to be able to find our space for but we do have space we just don't have space to put it's the post location I mean exercise is very important pick of all I think it's that 5 million um you know ad followers in the United States and whatnot it's the goto sport but is this the location for can it be modified or even at the Sunderland Elementary School um I don't know space available there but is that a better option and less impact on residential neighborhood that's a fair point you um the the sound study that you I'm not I've never done a sound study is it getting an idea of how loud the pickle like because we're not going to know how loud it is here until we built it if we right so I I'm just trying to understand like what your vision of a sound study would be measuring decb and then also feet to property lines in the echoing okay okay thank you so I think largely that's sort of I don't know that we have a plan for an official study but more of a we kind of have to wait and see until it's in to see what it is what is the impact going to be um and we do already have you know in our heads some tentative plans for what to do you know like the the hedro um to mitigate that um and if it become if it turns out that it is a much larger problem than we you know are anticipating um I think it would be reasonable at that point because we would have the the pickall port in place to be able to do the study to be able to you know talk about having a study a firm come in to do some sort of study to um to meas both measure those those levels and also give suggestions of ways to mitigate that um in terms of other locations um I really wish wish there was other locations uh the school has its own list of of things that are are not great about it um you know not the least of which being that you don't really necessarily want to have random adults from the community on school grounds during school times and back to like when do people use it if it's only at before school after school you know and there are also abutters to the school properties and all that other stuff so you know it would be great if we had a location that was both simultaneously close to everything and also in the middle of nowhere um but unfortunately we don't currently have that town park oh that's the only place I can think of that is it's a nice location for that has absolutely nothing Long Walk for Sanders in place folks yeah yes again you know it's it's part of a larger discussion that we have about this The Village Center visioning and what we want to have beware in Sunderland um you know we're trying to make this a very senior friendly downtown um and one of the large drivers for pick a ball is seniors picking it up and I think that's honestly a great thing because again we're talking about exercise for a um population segment that that sometimes struggles to get exercise and so we want to make it convenient and you close um and to that point I think amorist is moving the pickle ball courts from sort of a residential neighborhood to a park right at least that's what I had heard last time they're trying to move it from Kan Park this from Kanas Park to um mil Valley mil Riv mil river river yeah which is Kanis is much more residential more houses um smaller Park and mil River has more space and further from houses I don't know if what they're they decided but that's what I heard mil River Park has that same water issue though they have space they have the parking lot they have two tennis courts right or basketball yeah I'm just trying to think of where you can put another chunk of pavement and not be I'm again you know they've got I'm sure that it's been engineered I'm just Thinking Out Loud here yeah yeah I mean I think that it would have to be they would have to move some stuff around um or extend the parking lot out if you could but or repaint the the tennis court pickle ball courts yeah so you're going to look into if there's a way to do a sound study before construction yeah and I'll see if CU I know that sound it's not just an issue in has been an issue across the country so I'll try and find other communities that have done something similar and so that we can um get an idea yeah because I just don't know how you do a sound study before you have the sound look at that case examples right exactly but you know in proximity to homes is there a way to do kind of a news blast to butters on North Main Street regarding the design plans um so they're made aware we can send a letter and a copy of the plans to um is that a physical letter I think that's the to the addresses we can certainly um 200 ft 300 feet of the like what's a reasonable for sers uh well that's prescribed by law I think it's 300 feet so okay I would be perfectly fine with the town contacting the people within 300 ft that's you know okay totally reasonable all right thank you of course thank you for bringing it to our attention we always like to have input from the public um and you know sometimes we don't get things right and we want to hear that too so that's that's a great thing also um anything else you wanted to bring up while you were here no that's it wonderful Jess did you have anything you wanted to bring up while we're here or you just here to listen just listening all right all right sounds good um in that case now we're going to talk about the budget operating budget review Jeff yeah so I think last week we were somewhere in the $ 3,400,000 Gap range um and then we had the budget hearing with the elementary school um and after that discussion I think they found uh $60,000 in Saving things in their budget um so this has been reduced by that amount I also included 30% of free cash um which is 141,000 so between those two things um The Gap that we are looking or that we have to reduce is about 240,000 okay um so there are a couple of larger chunks that we can there are two larger chunks that that are possibilities um currently in the budget we have a new full-time police officer um if we did not hire a new full-time police officer this year we would likely save about $37,000 that's it on one full-time salary oh because of the part time yep got it got it I was just trying to think I'm God a police officer has to make more than that right but you still have to fill the shifts with part times or parms got it I understand now um well I feel like that that not doing that this year is reasonable because we did just add a full-time police officer position what two years ago something like that yeah I mean you were here when they did it right yeah it feels like we could certainly say no to that this year without it being a super huge issue so you said that's 37,000 yep all right and then the next the other big thing that we can look at is Insurance um health insurance went up 8% um and we can change benefits um but those are sort of the two big areas that that I identified as so do we have anybody we've asked to come back with uh a better budget so we're still waiting on South County EMS to present us so just to clarify this includes the 33% increase that the EMS sent us yes okay yeah so we've asked EMS to come back with a better budget no one else they were really the only ones that were asking for anything more than just level Services costing more well no we had the library asking for extended hours I think we yeah so sorry included in this is um not the extended hours and not the 8% um Cola that the library requested just the um what the Personnel committee had been recommending which was 3% y okay so there's nothing to I'm on the library okay so that's all right and that's that's fine I just trying to understand what's what's in here so one thing that I had brought up with you Jeff that think is worth mentioning is that we have a fairly sizable chunk of money in the general stabilization fund that we've been putting money into for the last chunk of years have not been taking money out of including if I remember correctly $200,000 last year we put into that fund um where if we end up having this be a abnormally large year of increases because of the school transportation thing which is not going to happen every year and because of the insurance going up 8% which God I hope doesn't happen very often um that I could see my way to authoriz authorizing some money coming out of the general stabilization fund to make up not necessarily $240,000 of of of shortfall but some of that um knowing that that means that we have to still come up with that money next year and going forward but that next year may not be a year where we're seeing a 33% and 8% and this percent and that percent all at the same time um doesn't necessarily make me the happiest but just saying that that is necessarily that is an option on our our plate yeah and you know I get I get what you're saying there too but the other thing that starts concerning me with with that situation is for the last couple years we've been able to cover a lot of these things that just kind of come up spur of the moment with arpa money yep if we don't have you know what do we do next you know once arpa's gone what do we do next time a furnace goes and what do we do next time you know and again I don't know that there's any other oil tanks in the ground anywhere in town on Town property hopefully there aren't but you know what I mean when that type of situation comes up we don't have arpa to say oh we can take care of this you know so I'm kind of hesitant to mhm no and again I'm not happy with it either that's what I'm saying like it's not my first choice it's not my third choice um I I I'm just kind of worried about that I don't think this is going to make you feel any better but I'm sure it's not uh we we couldn't spend stabilization funds without town meeting approval anyway right but at least we have to have a special town meeting to approprate right but at least there's the money sitting there somewhere to take care of this if we need to and to be clear we have something like 580 or something like that 600 600ish right now and we're talking about maybe picking a 100 out of this or something along those lines so we're not bankrupting the town by me more than that last year into the fund so you know over a 2year period we are still increasing the fund by $100,000 yeah you know again not my favorite choice but I also don't necessarily want to start going to every Department in town and start asking for cuts across the board when last year we had enough money in in free cash to be able to put money into stabilization you know yeah I you know we're already yeah I know we're already losing a teacher right Jess yeah we're already losing a teacher we're already you know not being able to say yes to any of the things that people are wanting to ask are asking us and if we're going to start having to cut things you know what what what good is money sitting in a stabilization fund if we're having to make cuts that affect people in town like that's sort of the point of having that money is to yeah oh no I I I know I'm just I'm really concerned with not having that oh I know that ARA money like we've had to really just pick away at I think we've done a lot of good with that arpa money and H not even just the money end of thing like where's that money come from but just the ease in which we're able to oh a problem comes in we can approve that solution right away and Bam it's fixed it's a it's a lovely thing that's not normal in politics so yeah um all right sorry that was sort of a little bit of the tangent there but I wanted to kind bring that up as a yeah as a you know uh a parachute basically um all right so if if we I I think that Crystal I'm assuming you can agree that we can tell the the chief that he's not getting a new officer this year put way I would be real hardpressed to go to other people asking them to cut things if we're still giving please Department a new officer um I think that that that's definitely not level Services um we can we can eliminate that um yeah so what do you have you had said you mentioned the health insurance yeah so what do you have for there so health insurance um it depends on the benefit so the easiest thing um currently there's no deductible um and going from no deductible to $250 or 700 250 an individual 750 a family Max would save 55% which is about 33,000 um there are other things that we can do that have smaller impacts um you know the ER co-pays um inati admittance Same Day Surgery copays um prescription uh co-pay changes um so there is if we want to look at maybe changing benefits um that's something that we could do to save money I think that one of the things the Personnel committee has been talking about is um looking into the Paid Family Medical Leave Act so maybe we want to have a larger conversation not now because we have to tell Maya in 12 days what we want to do about insurance um but you know a larger discussion around benefits in general and you know are are employees interested in paid family medical leave because that's a payroll deduction as well as the town contribution so I guess just revisiting this in in light of this increase and and um you know I think we have to do something budgetarily but I think you know we may want to look at Insurance overall again I mean I hate to touch the insurance especially because we just last year added a when I put 2 and half% or something like that 5% on our side um and also an 8% increase means that the the employees percent their paying is going up by 8% also so us turning around and being like okay well we're going to shove part of our increase on you also doesn't sit super well with me not saying it's off the table because you know we have to budget about the budget but just I just don't love I don't love that well I I will say that if we decrease insurance that their insurance decreases too right with that is that is true so that they would be paying they' be paying deductible but they would also have their insurance be going down by the same 5 and half% that's that okay so that that that actually does make me feel better so love it but it does make me feel a little bit better about I it either but um so I guess we need to figure out some some math on it that if you went to a $250 deductible for a single person $750 deductible for a family are they saving that much per year probably not and their insurance yeah also is that it's just a curiosity thing you know what I mean because that kind of yeah so another question I guess ask is that is that the only option or could we do 300 or something like that something that that's sort of meeting in the middle still a little bit of a a savings for the town but not quite as much of a hit um and have that be in conjunction with some other cuts that we make across the board so we're not taking a huge chunk out of the insurance we're taking a little trunk out of the insurance and maybe a little trunk here and a little trunk there and you know way up to the 240 we're missing yeah yeah I can ask yeah if you don't mind asking what those numbers are um and if it's like 250 750 is a 5% savings and 100 300 is only a half a percent or something like that okay well that's not worth it you know but if it scales in a in a way that's that that makes sense to us we might want to consider doing right but I think we have to Fig get a a number on what's what's the actual savings on the individual plan Yep they're out of pocket you know yeah how much less are they going to be paying yeah yeah so we can multiply that out by 12 and see over the course of a year yeah because if if it's extra $750 for a family over the year for the deductible but they're saving 400 in their out of pocket cost and town saving $400 in an out of pocket cost that makes me feel a lot better than if it's we're saving 50 they're saving 50 and it's costing them 750 you know that definitely makes me feel better um so yeah if you can get some numbers on what the different whether we can scale that and play around with that a little bit um and also as Crystal was asking for a breakdown of you know what what the increase to town and the employee would be for a single and a family plan um under that if that's something that the insurance can come up with okay I will do that do you want me to invite um because we do have to make a decision next week it invite the Meer up to the meeting in case you have questions or oh that probably makes sense okay yeah um yeah and if we can notify you know if the my Up's going to be here if we can again I'm not trying to but chances are there's going to be questions right if we can make sure anyone who's currently on Town insurance is notified in case there is you know they have questions I think that's fair yeah but if we could just you know again for for helping to actually get through an agenda mhm if we could you know like move the Myer rep to the last so that you know people dealing with the other business and stuff would have the opportunity to yeah either turn off their television or whatever you can say that that part is starting at 7 or whatever it is it depend just so okay yeah and and let us know as soon as possible whether the my ref can come or not um because then we can if not we can discuss through you what we want to do about that okay um sorry I think we had talked just because it's related y um Dan's coming back next Monday so we talked about moving the meeting to next Tuesday so while we're talking about him inviting them yeah um are we do we still want to move the meeting next week to Tuesday yeah okay I just want unless you have so my problem is I just don't know on Monday whether I can be here or not oh yeah so yeah Tuesday works better for you then that's fine with me yeah okay yeah no Tuesday's fine and Dan will definitely be back for Tuesday much higher chance that he'll be back on Tuesday than Monday okay all right yeah so so okay yeah Tuesday it is um and please send out a reminder of that via email so I can put my calendar and all that one stuff um and those are the only real two places that you're seeing any kind of that we can do significant I mean there's you know a number a number of departments asked for legitimate increases in expenses um which we can c um the Personnel committee is recommending a 3% Cola um and in lie of a longevity payment a onetime 2% wage adjustment for employees with 10 or more years of service so those are the people who are no longer in a step mhm so right so the people who can get a step increase are getting a cola plus their step so they're seeing more in their paychecks 5% yeah so because the people with 10 years or more the people have been here 20 years you know have seen nothing for 10 years other than a cola kind of looking to do a onetime 2% wage adjustment to try to get them a little closer mhm to and how does that factor into this that would that be something that we're going to end up seeing above this so I my point was going to be be that no that even if we cut that it's not going to make much of a difference okay I think it was well it was a difference of like $3,500 yeah I think if we went from 3% to 2% it would be a couple thousand at yeah which is I I I just meant in terms of like where are we sitting in terms of right now on this but I just want you know that obviously uh wages is a big expense so I wanted we did look at I did look at wages but um like I said it's going to be you know $11,000 here $500 there um I guess if if you all want to give me you know direction as far as so I think some of the things and again these are only things coming off the top of my head I believe a lot of departments significantly increased their fuel costs because gasoline is up and down and kind of not stable can we is there a way for you to pull out you know like on a keyword or something in your budget all the fuel costs and see if we can kind of get them a little more in line so again do we want to do 10% increase on that fuel on everyone's fuel line versus some people having a five % increase in their fuel line and some people having a 25% increase on their fuel line yeah I remember a couple on there that went up by 30 something per right that one so and again I know we can't predict it but if we could maybe see what evening out those fuel costs and then the same thing with the utility costs you know again these might not be huge things but if you know some PE some departments are in increasing their utilities by 10% and another Department's increasing it by 30% maybe we can get something a little a little more consistent you know for increase of utilities increase of fuel yeah so does that make sense I know that they talked about fuel uh um I would probably have to look at each budget individually well but I what I was I think that a lot of them include fuel in their expense their building expense heating fuel and building expense so like police have a fuel expense I think Highway has a I think Highway has fuel expense um but yeah so I mean I can but I think in general we can do that for expenses as well it's you know I don't think that I I think that at least most things have gone up pretty close to the same amount so proportionately so we can we could certainly look at that and I think that there are also you know some areas like I I don't know that that Town Administrator expense has been spent we could save a few thousand dollars there I think professional development we could also you know there's some things in the the select board accounts that we can I mean but again we're not talking tens of thousands so it's going to be a lot of level correct I mean looking through this most people are sitting around three 3 to 4% increase which is pretty reasonable given what's going on you know that's a right round where inflation and stuff is you know maybe a little low but there are a couple outliers here so one of the things we can do is start looking at those outliers and seeing if there's some you know places I mean starting from the bottom up we got uh health and sanitation has an 11% increase looks like there's a 34% increase on the landfill monitoring you know is that something that we are stuck on is that something that they that we have a contract that we're a bid or something like that you know okay moving on from there yeah they they wanted to raise it last year and I was like you can't double contract in in midseason so yeah yeah so that's a chunk of money um but we don't have all chice there I mean not a huge dollar amount I'm looking percentages but not a huge dollar amount um obviously the school is a huge one but that's a whole thing um and they've already made Cuts so I'm not looking to go ask them to make any more Cuts yet [Music] um fire 19% maybe we're I was they had equipment they needed to replace this year yeah it's actually out of date and they can't go to fire acem yeah no I know I know um where would you like all right aside from being balanced how close would you like to be next week um closer I can closer so I mean I don't know I mean I can I can do a first pass with the no new officer um not touching insurance and see where we're at and send it around and um if there's you know maybe that's enough to get us close that that you're comfortable using stabilization or you want to do some stabilization some additional free cash or something like that and what our toal free cashing out right now I thought it was $490 49 we're using 140 or something like that yeah 140 so I mean that's another options that we could go heavier on the free cash which is sort of like half here half there with the the stabilization money I mean y it's all the you know it's all the town's leftover money basically um leftover money if ever there's a thing so I mean I I guess if we were go from 140 on the free cash to 200 on the Free Cash Plus 100 in stabilization there's another 160 now we're within 80,000 full-time police officer now we're within 40,000 40,000 is much more much more likely than we can find 40,000 out of here and theirs um or we end up having to go 20 more on the free cash and 20 more on the civilation or something like that but you know right need to South County we need to find out from South County cuz cuz yeah if they can come down from 33% increase to 10 five um that would be a a much bigger thing and also another question I have is is in terms of um receipts and whatnot are we fairly confident that we've captured our our income next year properly um I know that we did not fully assess the value coming in from um North Main I was assessors have told me that everything is up to date that we should expect about 40,000 in New Growth this year so that is in here that's in there okay um local receipts have not been updated um but I don't anticipating them being dramatically different okay um now that is that 40,000 in New Growth for just 40,000 new growth and they're not adjusting the what what we think we're going to get from the the senior thing or that 40,000 include they said that they included it last year they did okay all right hold out I I confirm that both north 116 plat and zanderson place where you're not expecting any new growth from gotta okay that was yeah I just want to make sure we so so 40,000 New Growth yeah because you know who doesn't have an extra $500,000 when the Town's new growth is $40,000 yeah I must be can you show me what page South County EMS is all on this um it's under it's by police and fire under [Music] protection uh it's under Fire Department it's under Fire Department okay thank you oh yeah can miss I'm sorry yeah Sor I haven't seen the L look like they already brought that down to 25.1% is that is that okay so it's better yes okay I was looking for them and a yellow you know their own heading well also also explains why the the fire department's increase was so big is because it's not really the fire department's increase it's the in fact the fire department looks like the fire department in general is pretty stable yeah okay yeah 3,000 of that's the fire department 70,000 of that DS um okay all right so I think I have my homework I'm going to be inviting the Maya W he got a lot of homework between and all this um and we're going to make a decision on insurance and I will come back with um closer to if not a balanced budget okay sounds good and some just some numbers yeah for insurance cuz yeah so yeah if we and again I know it kind of if we keep it exactly the same as it is now versus if if we drop it you know what are we really looking at here at the end of the day yeah and and sorry to give you one more piece of homework but if you get one more thing for me and that would be um a breakdown of the last maybe fiveish years of free cash stabilization fund like numbers coming into into town meeting for the last couple years just to have a general idea of what our total sort of available money has been over the last couple of years whether it's up gone down that kind of thing um I know that you know free free cash was high last year we put some money in culation that kind of thing just to get a general idea of what the trend looks like so we know whether if we do end up putting $20 and something, between free cash and stabilization what does that look like for the overall trend of our savings over long term and maybe it's already on there maybe I'm just not looking at that so I would say that um I'll answer it quickly and then I'll get you the hard numbers but we I don't think we've put much General stabilization except for last year in the last five years um and free cashes averaged about 4 to 500,000 this is what we used in free cash but not I wanted to I'm just looking for like the end of the year we had 400 in free cash we had the 400 in stabilization next year we had 250 in free cash we had 400 in station next year we had 600 in free cash we had 400 station this last year we had whatever and 50050 inion just so that we can again I want to see what the the general flow is because if we're looking at being going from already kind of low on the last 5year Trend to taking a huge nose dive that's different than if we've been kind of working our way up and we take a little bit dip and then we're still within you know what getting if we spend that money out of those two funds are we still going to be within the margin of error of where we should be right now or are we going to be really putting ourselves in in bad shape y um so if you can get that information I promise that's the last thing I will ask you to get information about tonight and I'll probably change my mind in 5 minutes but we'll go with that all right all right um I think that's enough budget talk for tonight you have your homework we appreciate that um next week we will talk hopefully at that point we will come out with a plan because we have very little time left to do so all right up next arpa requests South uh s Elementary School electrical repairs and fuel removal uh sorry just fuel removal you approved electrical repairs last week yes so we had asked questions about the fuel and you had de saidd that you were going to ask yes so the fuel is being recycled um there was 900 more gallons than they expected um and what they said is that what what the contractor told them is that it's the stuff that sits on the bottom and is nearly unusable anyway so would need to be recycled um to be used okay that actually makes a lot more sense because yeah no we we have to have our sludge cleaned out every now and then also bottom sludge yeah um just run it empty then you never get sludge yeah it has its own problem simply ask me in my cans of uh diesel out behind my house why um so that makes a lot more sense um I still don't love the idea of paying to get rid of fuel we paid for but if we're talking about the Sledge at the bottom of the tank that makes a lot more sense 900 gallons of sludge at the bottom of the tank is a lot that's a lot of sludge um and just to confirm either way damage done it's already it's already done like we might be not super happy about it but it's what it is and you know moving on I mean I I think it's fair to to maybe just have a discussion if we have another product like just come up beforehand about what we're going to do about that and you know maybe make it clear that we would like to have some input if a if that kind of situation arose again of what we want the town wanted to do it and maybe the solution is the same thing which is we have no choice but to do it cool but maybe the town would like to have a a say on that next time um but anyways I think we need to ask the oil company how do we avoid having 900 gallons of sludge in the future that's aw you know what I mean cuz they're putting in brand new oil tanks yeah um and in terms of AR request you you needed us to approve how much money for $1800 $1800 okay I make a motion we approve $1,800 from arpa money for fuel removal or to pay the bill for fuel removal right it's already done it's already a done deal yeah yeah yeah all right I second that all those in favor I I all right two nothing J thank you all right selectboard updates amazingly I have nothing this week so I have nothing they postpone South County EMS from this week to next week so I'm going to have nothing next week to update on South County EMS either all righty so that's it for zboard updates unless Dan is going to pop on in 5 seconds um next up is Town ad Ministry updates Jeff I only have one which is um if anybody is planning on submitting a warrant article those are due on Friday so next week also um depending on how busy our agenda is we'll probably have a first look at the warrant okay great all right that is everything any final public comment from the assembled masses no wonderful all right wait I think we have one oh sorry Peter you want a couple suggestions on the budget sure please one would be that this is you have sort of put in 30% of free cash and I believe the thinking is that's the number we've sort of agreed to over the years that goes into free cash goes into the budget from free cash to help balance the budget but this is the first year when there's I don't believe there is any plan to also put a chunk of money from free cash into Capital stuff yes so that it might be worth you know part of the discussion about the use of free cash or it's used to balance the budget is now it's I mean what you have right now is using 30% of it and you know some percent is going to be on probably a couple two or three other articles that we'll need some free cash but you're still probably using you know somewhat less than 50% of it mhm okay and you know I think that needs to be maybe a discussion as to well in the era where we're not having to use it for capital for you know routine capital projects because people pass the capital override is the number 30% really you know should be looked at and it might be like 50% is a better number you know totally justifiable rather than we it this year no I think a very good point because yeah we have every year for the last bunch of years be putting money into the capital because we didn't have right it's been like another 30 something like 30 so I mean you going to Capital and that's not happening now and you can even look at it as if we had gone for a general override last year rather than a capital override this year we'd be asking for free cash money for capitals but we'd have more money in the operating budget so you know 6 to1 half does other so I like that second point is that uh um I have no idea in this year what amount is being spent taken out of the reserve fund or will be because often it's time towards the end of the year but that account has been bumped up to 50,000 from a much smaller number and in this year's budget it just still the same 50,000 and I would hope at least that gets little thought as to whether you know there may have been situation where with the inflation that took place over last couple of years the places like the fire department uh Highway Department on some accounts you know were severely underfunded and have to turn to the reserve fund and so on um my hope would be that you know at this point they are submitting budgets that are closer to what's going to be needed there's less uncertainty with the supply chain stuff and so on that was before with inflation is you know moderated so on so that ,000 still needed yeah is that the OPB trust fund you're talking about or is that fund reques where's that there uh 230 line 230 I'm sorry line 230 oh I'm on the wrong page gotcha so yeah we were putting 17 in in the last couple years we put in a bunch it looks like and we're budgeted for 50 this year also right right and and I would just yeah I would I would raise a question as to number one what's it look like for the current year because that's always your first thing is you know well what are we doing this year so far because this year's 34s over right you know you look like things are coming I mean I don't know Jeff is hearing things about current year budgets being in trouble because that's what your you know request for money from the reserve fund come from is suddenly you know the highway saying hey you know we're going to be way short on this account on well if you're not hearing that so the the only push back I would push on that is just that that's sort of one of the things that me and Crystal were talking about being worried about is we have arpa funds right now which has largely made that not necessary fund can be used for that but it's you know you know go overboard with that way and it just make I mean I don't know I'm just saying Point pointing that out that yeah don't know there's really a need for that amount and third I would think that uh uh maybe you're not thinking that there's a you know huge bump in in local receipts but if there was a bump of 20 grand or something like that it's you know you should be get that number at this point in the budget process should be getting settled on okay and um and I think I it didn't sound like I thought for a moment that there was something you were talking about where somebody like the fire department needed a bunch of new equipment that just this year in order to satisfy something if that was something that was going to be a one time event I supposed could be an annual kind of thing okay then that's the kind of thing that probably ought to be pulled out and paid for in a separate article using free cash okay because it's not going to be you know in this year and then out next year and sort of messing up the annual budget work I think what he but I don't know if it's enough that it may not be enough that that Mak no so I think what he's he's doing is like there's a life expectancy of this so I think he has now adjusted the budget so that like every year they buy two complete sets of that always used to be the pro you buy some each year yeah yeah so and I just think that this year it couldn't get put off or something you know what I whether he I can't remember if last year he I don't remember mean I they have more people going yeah there there was some something but yeah he does have it on a cycle so that and then Jeff I would think that I don't know if you had last year discussion with the uh assessories about whether it's time to reclaim a bit of the overlay Surplus or not but that's always one that's that's worth doing because you may find another 10 or 20,000 there yeah so we did a couple years ago and they didn't seem inclined to want to do it but well I would go back and you know act a little more forceably say you know I mean it depends on how much where we stay in the way of back taxes in the various years as to what you're legally allowed to do but if you are allowed then there's no reason not to claim some yep just a few no I I it's wonderful to have a fresh set of eyes on this let me tell you cuz we look if you have five more people like you come in here and tell us five more would be all set I and I think that the the EMS thing is C County EMS thing is that's a chunk of money they're asking for a bunch of different stuff and you know part of the response can be okay look we can do some of this year but there's no way we can do anywhere close to all of this and you got to figure out your priorities yeah oh yeah and and so on and rather than feeling like you got to justify a cut from their increase they need to justify an increase from previous years that took something that towns can handle yeah yeah and they got to say okay guess we're not asking for this and this and this this year you pay what we basically said to them is great this is like a 10-e plan why you TR to do in one year you know come back to us with the first year of your 10- year plan and we'll talk um no I you I think you could knock a chunk off of that without feeling like you're being even disrespectful or imprudent or something like that but just say look you know this is the way things work in towns you you know you need a bunch of stuff you try and get a little one year and then a little the next year and you've actually get to where you want to get to right fiveyear plans are great yeah and I think that was the conver the follow-up conversation that I had with the chief is you know hey we're going to have to phas this in and he said where I come from you don't get what you don't ask for so this is what I this is what I asked for and I said all right so you know that that's my failing for not setting you up for Success when you came in here um and we will work on that and and I would be one place I'd be hesitant would be uh with health insurance and it's partly because it's late in the game here and you have uh you went through the whole process last year and you got a good start good early start on it okay and a good early start and stuff like this is important and something where you're just saying okay we got to decide in in two weeks and so we're getting all in here one week and you know it's just it's fast and it's you know it I don't know I would just think twice before you yeah yeah I mean we need to see some numbers and get numberb first and then decide okay do we really want to push this or do we want to figure out some other way to make the budget work and then figure next year we'll you know you know let them know let people know this is under consideration but maybe next year we don't actually put it into effect for another year I'm just saying this is a possibility I'm not saying that you w end up being stuck having a two sh right but it may be nice to be able to have a nothing change no and and given the choice between any of your suggestions and making changes to the healthcare plan I would go with your suggestions and a heartbeat overing that you know as we both said mul times we don't like that idea it's just that's for where we were um just so that Jeff is prepared for next week with a budget because we're coming down to the wire um if we were to talk about um The Reserve fund going down from 50,000 what number Crystal would you be happier 25 well I think we'd have to see how much came out of it this year nothing nothing serve fund yeah yeah because we largely have used usually what happened in the past this is way in the past is first of all the reserve fund was oh was run by the finance committee M um and most of the request would come towards the end of the year because it would be like okay we got to June itly we you know $1,000 short or something like that right and so on so I wouldn't expect there to be if there's stuff already at this point in the year I'd be really surprised and furthermore you've been pulling stuff out of AR that might have been covered by The Reserve Fund in the past so right I'd be really surprised if anything close to 50K got used this year if you can give us some historical numbers though well our shle before that it was like 17 so it was always used in the past because the fire department chronically under requested wages so every year until I think it was two years ago when we finally bumped it up I said no ask for what you need and we'll use the reserve fund for what it's meant for um we used at least $10,000 in firefighter wages but we're to the best ability confident that what the numbers the fire department is giving us are going to be better this year in line with the last couple years yes so okay and what happens to the the um Reserve fund money at the end of the year that become free cash yes okay so there isn't there isn't just a a pile of money out there that's been accumulating we're talking about okay so in effect that's going to become free cash at the end of the year either way you know right and I think you know to Peter's Point that's why we bumped it up to 50,000 is we didn't know you know fuel prices were going crazy costs were and they utilities were going crazy we just didn't know and we I think we had to cut expenses from what was requested and we said we're going to bump up the reserve fund so if we're wrong and your fuel is twice as much then we will use the reserve fund as a safety net you always you always do have the possibility of call in a special town meeting yeah haven't done it for a while but it used to be very standard yeah so I'm what I'm thinking in my head right now is if we add together how much money out of free cash that we've taken the last chunk of years and put into both the budget and into the capital projects and added those together and average them and that was the number we took out of free cash and put into the budget that sounds like a fairly reasonable way of going about that yeah I think I think when you have the numbers in front of you next week it's going to be a lot easier to talk about where you're B from yeah but I I feel like the piece I was missing which I'm really glad you brought up was the the whole not moving money into Capital anymore not having to worry about that because this year the capital and we're going to be meeting again tomorrow is it or is it next week we we have not set it up yet we not set it up we'll be setting up soon um currently where we are in capital projects we're within the money we have were able to to to meet the needs of the town without having to come to town and ask for money for Capital which was the whole goal the the table Edition override in the first place and I'm glad we did it because man we'd be a much worse position today if we didn't had to do that because this budget would also include $250,000 that we were having to transfer into into Capital um I would feel better about using more free cash and leaving stabilization alone I was talking about stabilization pretty much because I I didn't want to completely bankrupt us in free cash but I wasn't thinking oh yeah we put usually put 20 30% in to um to Capital and we're not if we take that if we recapture that Capital free cash we're we're pretty close you know that plus the police officer plus a little bit more magic I think we can say that we don't have to touch the um health insurance if that's the case um in fact I don't know how you feel this Crystal but I would be comfortable saying we're going to just take the the health insurance off the table not worry about having a rep come next week not worry about all that stuff because at the end of the day if it's a couple extra thousand dollars but it means people in the employees of our town having to pay more out of pocket for something I'd rather go deeper in the free cash on that one personally um so I'm still going to do the calculation cuz I'm curious if a 5% reduction and a 25750 deductible they'd actually be saving money and then that's totally fair um because if they would then I think that we want to do that um I'd be surprised if they were I'm going to do the calulation anyway I I get the feeling that the insurance company would be losing money in that and they tried very hard not to do that um but yeah no if you come back and it's even if it's it's it's enough of a savings to town and it's almost a wash for the the employees that would be something you know obviously be talked about but yeah cuz you're really looking at so what 200 if you do 240 that's 200 a month right yeah no no two 20 thank you yeah $20 a month for for a right yeah so if they're going to save $20 a month by having a $250 deductible on their insurance premium they're saving money bumping up to it if those if that was the only change right is your deductible Y and you save $20 a month or 25 whatever which you know you start looking at $5 a week I think Jeff need to do right yeah got time to sh make make sure that okay this is really what it means don't try to l m can you try oh I agree but they're looking at those people who don't use it at all yeah doctor's visit they're going to pay for it out of pocket and they don't pay a thing all year for that young single person who doesn't go to the doctors so Jeff you can try and get that information on the earlier end if we find out tomorrow that oh yeah I going to save 50 cents for the town0 50 cents for the for the employee but cost $20 more you know per month $20 you know per month for the deductible okay that's not worth it but if we do find out it's reasonable then we can make a decision ision about it being on Monday's or Tuesday's s board meeting if we if if it's completely unreasonable there's no point in moving forward with that but yeah if it's a reasonable thing I think it's worth discussing for sure great um okay that's a lot yeah thank you Peter thank for let me say something oh thank you for saying it I appreciate it like I said that a fresh set of eyes is wonderful when you haven't looked at it no honestly I'm I'm I'm kind of feeling a little silly that I didn't make the connection with the the capital the capital money because I'm I'm in both of those committees and I should have um but no that that makes things a lot a lot easier to to absorb so that's good anything else from anyone out there before we call it beautiful I'm Mo we J I second that motion all those in favor I I do nothing 8:00 on the nose call it a day