I can too fast. The regular session of the board of Commissioners of the city of Tarpon Springs on Tuesday, March 19th 2024 and 6:30 P.m. roll call, please mayor here, Vice Mayor Eisner. Commissioner Kass here. Commissioner Kis here. Commissioner D Donato Uh, this evening's, uh, invocation will be given by Reverend Milton Smith, Chaplain for our first responders if we can remain standing and turn and pledge allegiance to the flag afterwards. Let's pray Lobby. Thank you for this beautiful day. We thank you for this opportunity to gather the city leaders is commissioners and mayor. Vice Mayor. I see leaders . Uh, police Chief and fire Chief and Heads of all the departments of this city. We pray, Lord, you have blessed them and keep them and guide them as they do things to make Tarpon Springs a better place. We thank you for this first day of spring may spring new ideas and new and new, uh, things that were bring us together and do things that would make this city shine and we ask this in your precious name. Amen. As these to the flag. I take America until the Republic which is the one nation and the individual they take and just as far Yeah. Just have one brief announcement. We have a community rating agency meeting right after the board of Commissioners. I want to remind one of that, and we'll also have, um Attorney Dan Lewis. Sitting in for Mrs uh, Kardash on that one. Let's go to public comments. Are there any public comments this evening? Public comments on anything that's not on the agenda. Don't be shy. Good evening. Katie Taylor 1991 Douglas Lane, Toff Springs. I wanted to follow up, uh, on the paint strips that it was gonna repaint the street at the corner of, um Live oak and US 19. I was just seeing those arrows have not been painted yet. And I think, uh, Was it? She Captain Young was gonna check on that. The second thing was, I was gonna ask if they can not not have a speed bump because I know you can't do speed bumps but speed strips to slow down traffic between Gross Avenue and Levis Avenue. Um because there's a lot of traffic that's going through there fast. And I understand that the city to that community one time that they could not put a speed bump there. A liability reasons. I think they said you might have said it might not have been you, but it was a mayor at that time. But I wanted to ask if that could be followed up on because it's a lot of speeders going through that right through that, um, particular block and also on the corner. Of Levis and Lime on the East side that empty lot How is it doing donuts in that it says doing donuts so much spinning around in a in a circle that is causing dust to actually go up. I don't know, if any, if you can put any kind of speed Uh, signs that there to see Check that traffic that's going from, uh, Martin Luther King, uh, on Levis all the way to Tarpon Avenue. Pinellas Avenue. So the main thing that we wanted to ask for is speed bump strips between Gross Avenue. And Lime Street. By Mount Hermon. Because it's a kids play out there. And we like to have that area check for traffic if we could Um City manager. Of course we're gonna have, um do you wanna say anything? I was just gonna ask. That would just be something that the that the, uh, traffic unit the police department would look at, so I'm sure Frank will get that message back to him, and they'll look at those those issues. Ms Taylor. Somebody will be contacting you, and you can have a long conversation about that. There's um, speed bumps or something that we've, uh Not done here for some very good reasons, and the police department can explain to you, but that doesn't mean there are other things that can be done to slow down traffic. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Are there any other public comments? Yeah. Evening. Be relaxed. 5140. I need to get reset. Peter O, LA is 514 Ashland Avenue, Tarpon Springs. Um I'm gonna read a little part of a passage of Psalm 106 and, uh, Pull it up by looking for Something of gratitude. And I'll explain that afterwards. Praise the Lord. Give thanks to the Lord for he is good. His love endures forever. Who can proclaim the mighty acts of the Lord are fully declare his praise. Blessed are they who maintain justice? Who constantly do what is right. Remember me, O Lord, when you show favor to your people Come to my aid when you save them. That I may enjoy the prosperity of your chosen ones that I may share in the joy of your nation. And join your inheritance in giving praise. So Sorry. I missed the last meeting. But I did watch it and, uh Part of the reason was that I had gone camping. Out on, uh, Cumberland Island. If you're not familiar, it's an island right off the coast of Georgia, just above Jacksonville off of ST Mary's, and you have to take a ferry to it. It's not what I'm used to with pulling a trailer, but, uh You hike in 3.5 Miles to your campsite with £45 a gear and food and stuff like that. And you're out there for three or four days and, uh, you're dealing with the elements, and that's when that storm last Tuesday came through. Thankfully we were far enough East that we just mostly got rain, but And you hike back and, uh, take the ferry back and come home. And I guess the point I'm getting to is sometimes we As Americans and maybe other countries also Forget how important and how nice it is just to have some of the simple things in life and being grateful for it to come home. Take a hot shower. Open your fridge. Of juice and food. So when you think about what you have quit looking at what you want more of and be grateful for what you do have Now, as far as to some more city stuff. I would like to follow up on the previous comments and what had been mentioned many a times before about opening up distance. I know in some areas, it may be controversial, and I'm gonna remind the board that we had workshops you can check with R Na and Alice Ally and Pat. They were at that meeting, commissioner. Correction form of race Vice Mayor What was there? All the leg work's been done. It's been noted what the people want out there and it needs to be done. About three weeks ago. I'm sure Assistant chief for GIO can mention it. Uh, we had Driven down to Dunedin to go hear some music. We left around eight something. It was a Friday. Driving down al 19 traffic backed all the way to Kerman and all the way closterman up the hill. Coming back at 1030 same thing found out later. I guess there was a motorcycle accident and that part of 19 was closed out. All those people forced all the way to all 19. You need to open up distance. And when those issues occur. To re leave the fears or the concerns of the neighborhood . You know, it's going on station officers there to help direct traffic and keep things calm. And in the meantime, I've mentioned it. There's three intersections that you can put stop signs on on the north, part of distant from Closterman all the way up to Ivy, There's Ivy Place and Sandy Hollow. Two stop signs they'll break up the speed path. Things can be done already to alleviate traffic such that the concerns of the people in that area will not be heightened when we open that road, which needs to be done. Thank you. Or any other public comments. Um Mister Trump. Are there any remote access comments this evening? And we do not have anyone in attendance at this time. Ok? Thank you. Ms Jacobs. Did we get any emails? Not for this. No E mails OK on any other items as well. I'm just on the one item. Uh, for the We? We trade them. Would that be I believe it's number 10 for Enlo Road. The RV Park or OK. Um All right, let's go to the, um Concern. Agenda. Are there any of the three items that, um commissioners would like to pull OK? The consent agenda is, uh, one a unit salesman Jensen, Uh, invoice 80597. Item one B unit salesman Jensen Invoice 80598 item one C person, Cohen, Mooney Fernandez and Jackson P. A invoice 4779 in Item one. D Johnson, Jackson and Voice 12446 . Item two. Increase File number 2 0 0 0 8 7 Dash, C, AM maintenance, repair and operations supplies. And related services through the Omnia Partners contract, or 19. 2006 I can Item three award file number 2 4 0 0 3 9 Dash B Dash PH flexi Pave tree well installation Are there any public comments on any of these three items? Mr Jump. Are there any remote access comments on any of the, um, consent agenda? And we do not have anyone in attendance at this time. OK, thank you, Commissioner Comments. Uh, Vice Mayor Eisner, You've got your light on. Thank you, Mayor. Once again. I just wanted to make the residents aware this is just another $35,000 increase, and they have been relentless with these increases. Um For whatever reason, um, classified as you may, but this is just continuing to affect all the residents in Tarpon Springs. Um not to say that it's not necessary, but At each meeting. We just get one after the other. As you'd know about your grocery and your gas and everything else is just going through the roof. So That was my comment to make OK there any other commissioner comments Commissioner Kas? Yes Mayor. I just wanted to follow up and I would ask that on the city attorney Billings that and I I've spoken with, Uh M kardash that, um When they talk about conversations, it would. It would mention the mayor or vice mayor. But then commissioner would be blank and I just like a little bit more. Details which commissioner was Talking during the bills because now we have three and, uh as the vice mayor spot will change just like to have some Uh, you'd like to have more information on the conversations. Um, I just who the who The commissioner was Ms. Car Nash. Would you like to comment on that? I'm fine with that. I can include it. I usually just put when I'm talking to a public official. I usually put their title and that's it. Um, so I have no problem Identifying you know which commissioner I'm speaking with would, would you? Uh, Commissioner C are interested, uh, in for the backup so that the residents can see it as well. Or just for your own information? Well just as it's in the details when it says commissioner if we just add that extra question Name inside. That would be perfect. Um M corn. I'm gonna leave it to you and have some more information with, uh, Commissioner Ka. Anybody else? May I have a motion to approve consent agenda items 12 and three. Some move. Or 2nd 2nd. OK, if there is no further comments, Roll call, please. Donato Yes, Commissioner, cuz? Yes Mr Colianni, Vice Mayor Eisner mayors? Uh yes. Our special consent agenda. Public Art Committee submission for board of Commission. Uh approval . The coach Rudy Mural Dorset Park. Um I'm gonna leave. Let you start off and Miss Jennings is here. The chairman. Yeah we're we're a team. I'm gonna do the first part and then Miss Jennings is gonna come up. Um What does the relation to this? The city commission is already approved. Um historical plaque, uh, proclamation for Rudy Day and we've got a We've got an event the last Saturday in April , which I believe is April 27th honoring Mr Calvin Royal. Um when we brought it before the board, um you saw what his what His contribution was with the community and the Union Academy and especially, um, with kids in that neighborhood, and of course, it was the direction of Board for this year to start honoring the history and doing things in the community to honor that history. We've we've got Friday. We've got the historical plaque for Mr Dorsett. And then this would be the second one that we're doing. The 27th As a dual item for that the family had been working with the Public Art committee. This is not connection with what I was doing with their There's a dual request We public art about a mural on one of the sides of the building to depict that in the hope was that on the 27th when we have the event at the park, and we unveiled historical back that we can unveil the mural, too. Now that was never a guarantee. In fact, I didn't know if the art committee could get through and get it by that time. But thanks to Miss Jennings and the Many miraculously, in fact, before their meeting I was thinking, you know, I had a game plan for having maybe a replica on the thing saying, this is coming. This mural may be coming and something like that, because we wouldn't make it, But, um, it was approved and what we're bringing forward to you obviously is the is the approval of the board, Um, to put the mural on on the city piece of property, which is that which is the building there and the contract attached to it. And because of the timing and the ability of the public art committee To get it done at their march meeting. Um we will be able to have simultaneously unveiling of the mural and the unveiling of the historical, um as we do the celebration of the event, So with that, I'll turn over to Miss Jennings, who Who made this all happen with her very much with a group. Thank you. Uh this was a rather unusual project for us because the artist and the design were brought to us by members of the, uh, Rudy Committee and the family. So um, the original design was submitted to us at our March meeting. We made some suggestions for some tweaks in the design. Uh, the artist submitted it, Um Um, M Woods, Our city liaison. Did a lot of leg work in, um, contacting speed pro because the, uh, public art committee had, uh, decided to have the, uh, work put on the building in the form of an applique similar to the Christopher still, uh, applique that's on the, uh, Chamber of Commerce building. So if you look at your backup, you have two invoices. That's why I wanted to explain it a bit. One of the invoices is for the artist for his fee and for his materials, and the second one is , uh, speed pro for the, uh, applique. And that also includes , uh you know, prepping, uh, the building that the applique is going to be applied to, um The artist is going to be submitting an original art piece, which is a combination of an original painting, which are the figures and a graphically designed background. So it's kind of a hybrid. Uh, art piece, which is very interesting. So, um The, uh The art piece will become, uh, property of the city, and I thought it would be nice if the, uh, board of commissioners would also approve a presentation of the actual art piece to the royal family. Since it does honor, you know, Coach Rudy Does anybody have any questions or comments or let me um Let let me ask the public first if they've got any comments, so we'll go to the commissioners any, uh, any comments from the commission? I'm sorry from the residents. Concerning this item. This is the Rudy Royal. Uh, Mural that's going to be placed on the concession stand at Dorset Park. Be short here. Peter X 514 Ashland Avenue. Thank you, Miss Jennings and all the people on the, uh, Committee and I'm assuming this might be the artist. No Graham Jones is the vice chair of the public art. OK, I'm sorry. The misrepresentation. So, uh, I appreciate the fact that the city has worked to Coordinate this all together and I'm really proud to say that It shows we are a community a diversity and we are reaching out to those in our area in our neighborhoods who've not had the equal. Publicity. Or marketing. Or respect that some of the other Cultures in the area have gotten so Thank you for all your hard work, and, uh, this would be fun to see and what we're getting notices through. Facebook or or Yeah. One comment on the city's website. As news You click on that. It's old stuff from like, so can we Also post presently work on revisions to the website and that's one of the top things on there. Thank you. OK, any other comments on this item? Mr Jump any remote access comments? Online I would like to speak on this item. Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed in to talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. OK um, let's get back to the commission. Any questions from Ms Jennings or common? Vice Mayor Eisner? I just saw you push your light on. That's usually means I have something to say. Thank you. Um would you be able to explain? I know what the $2500 would you explain the $300. The $300 is reimbursement for the artist materials and, um You know, as usual, the committee has a fiduciary responsibility. So when, uh that invoice is submitted for payment . Usually we pay in, you know, uh, increments. Uh it will. He will have to also present, uh, receipts. Reimbursement. Thank you. Welcome. Any other commissioners, comments or questions? Oh, by the way, I just realized I also like to acknowledge, uh, Katie. Taylor. She's also a member of the Public Art committee. And also, uh, as you mentioned, uh, Mr Graham is behind you, the assistant chairperson. Um, I wanna thank everybody. For all your hard work on this. I know it. It was kind of a unique project And a lot of, um Um, loose ends that actually had to be wrapped around together to get this mural done. And I think the applique is, um A good idea. Uh because of the maintenance that's always going to be done on that building rather than having to worry about, uh, painting over the mural and then redoing it. Just order a new app and putting it over the old one, which in the one by the way, especially with his son that beats on it at this on the side of the chamber seems to be holding up very well, including the colors. I think they apply special UV coding that prevents, you know, fading and, you know, just general wear and tear from the elements which we obviously need down here in Florida. So You know, they do a really good job. I think, um Next time we do directional signs for the city. Maybe the applique process would be the best way to go and prevent the fading and that sort of thing. So, but that's For the future. Yes, OK. OK, Thank you very much. Uh, let me thank you. Um if there's um no further questions for Ms Jenny, may I have a, um, A motion to approve Item four, please. Or a second. OK? OK? Roll call, please. Commissioner de Donato. Yes, Commissioner Colis. Yes Commissioner Cuyas. Yes Vice Mayor Eisner. Yes, Mayor. Yes. Item five. The dredge spoil site Lease Extension City management, Of course. Yes Bob Robertson will be doing the next two items . The first one is the dredge spoil site. Lethal extension. Um thanks. Uh, Bob Robertson, Project Administration Department director. I'll start this item with some good news. Um dredging work is finally complete in the anklet River with respect to the Federal channel and the city turning Basin. I'm really happy, you know, a long time to be able to see those words. And now we're moving into the demobilization and the restoration phase of the project. So um, as you're aware the city leases the property for the dewatering of the dredge spoils. The lease is set to expire at the end of this month. That's the reason for this item, so we're requesting the board's approval to extend the lease by up to six months. To allow for plenty of time to restore the property in accordance with our DEP permit and the lease contract terms that would extend the lease to the end of September. 2024. That's my brief staff report, Mr Mayor. OK, Uh do you wanna add anything to that? Uh, we might want to talk about the, uh, the issue before that. We dealt with about the transportation of dirt. How we're how we're resolving the, uh, not having 600 dump trucks come through town. Sure. No problem. Uh, so we've revised our plan in DEP has approved this plan to leave the materials on the property. We're gonna regrade the site, Um and, uh, what this does is it's obvious. It's a less expensive option because we're not moving material and, as the city manager said, we're not trucking material off site and through town. Um this board has previously stated concerns regarding trucking material through town, so we're happy to be able to re resolve that as well. Do we know estimate of how much money that's going to save us. It's ballpark in my head from numbers I've seen but probably 3 to $500,000 savings. By leaving it on site. That's money we could spend on somewhere else, right? All right . I'm teasing you. I've That's money's been getting hard to find. So any kind of, um, uh, savings or money that we don't have to spend in one place is well appreciated. So um, let me go to commission. I'm sorry. Residents comments. Are there any resident comments on this item? Ela 501 4 Ashland Avenue. It's good to hear that we're all done with the dredging part. And I can appreciate the fact of not wanting to haul all that material off. Um But then it strikes me. You're dredged material off the bottom of the Anclote River that has accumulated I would say probably numerous. Potential. Toxic or carcinogenic chemicals, Arsenic lead. Your components that had broken down. So my only concern at this point, I'm not familiar with the land itself. How it will be spread out if it's treed. You may want to cover yourself for any kind of future liability if it comes out that the land is no longer usable for other purposes because of what we put on the site. Thank you. Good evening. Uh Craig L 743 Chesapeake Drive. Um you've doubtless heard me mention this before. Um We're saving money on the fact that we're not removing the material from this dredging site or from the spoil site rather Um, we're always on the continual hunt for a permanent spoil site. Um I'm aware of the current conditions as far as pricing with that site, But as we look to what we're saving for not moving the material. What we're having to spend for. Just basic restoration. Even if we don't remove the material what the cost is of finding another dredge site and what the cost of is of conditioning, This dredge site and we have a dredge spoil site that just Literally working really well for us. I think the city needs to seriously consider Uh, further negotiations with with Stas Group to, uh, To get the site. It's if we don't get it now. Um trust me. I've looked . There's not too many sites that would fit this and none is adequately. Um so I know it's a huge expense for the city. I wish I could make it last. I think when we take into account the Decommissioning and recommissioning and etcetera with acquiring new property, all that sort of thing. I think we'll find that you know, it might mitigate maybe a million dollars or 1.2, you know, pulling this out of my head? Um, but that should Be taken into account when we're looking for another visit. We gotta do it now. I mean, uh, We? Yeah. We've done the turning basin in the federal channel. We still have to do all the other, um, auxiliary channels and so forth to the bay in the city and 10 years from now we're gonna have to dredge that channel again. So It's a long term commitment, but I think it's one that's best for the city. Thank you. Uh, you you You're absolutely right. Uh, it's probably a piece of property. We should have bought a long time ago. When this thing first came up. We used the same site in 1995 for the, uh, spoil island in and, um so we've had opportunities to do that. We did talk to the ST family about purchasing it. We actually did do a, um, An appraisal on the property that came if I correct me if I'm wrong $3.5 million And then the Stam is family. It's not anyone. It's the family has to make a decision, um, was asking $5.5 million and they'd actually had someone offer that amount of money for the property. I don't know whether they agreed to it or not, or or whatever, but, uh, I did get a call. Uh, from Mr Stamas, Uh, maybe a month or two ago, asking if the city's position has changed on the piece of property , and I told him at $5.5 million I, I just We just need to look for some other options. Uh, At that time now, if the commission wants to negotiate, uh further with Mr Stas and see if they'll come off that $5.5 million. He I don't think they're going to get down to 3.5. Which is what the property is worth. Uh, that would be fine. I don't have an issue with it. Uh I do know that city management, of course, is talking to, um to some other people right now for some other potential sites and waiting to hear back on that, um, in conjunction with some other work that they're doing the Were doing together with the city, so we'll see what comes from that. That's also uh, it looks like it's a pretty good site as well low but that's OK. It would be cheaper, so Um Commissioner Di Donato. Did you have anything? I just want to concur because I know that's been talked about on multiple occasions. And I think your your point is well taken. The land is not going to get cheaper. It's only getting more and more scarce. And, uh, hopefully Through this last process, Christie, you would know more more than I on on this because you negotiate a lot of it. But We? We need to plan as if we're gonna do this every 5 to 10 years and let the powers that be know that and one of the ways to do that is if we have our own site. So I would hope that we continue to search for the proper location to do that. I. I think What would probably need to happen is, uh Mantra, of course, probably should have a conversation with all of you to bring you up to speed on what he's doing. I know we've tried to get a real estate consultant on board. We've advertised twice with no takers, uh, for the real estate consultant to help us do the technical search for the property. But and he's in the city manager is looking for, uh, an alternative to that. So I'm hoping we'll hear a bit. Um I've I've talked to him privately about it a few times. So I'm hoping we'll hear something back from him on that as well soon, so it's not Anything that's been forgotten. It's just that this particular site is a is a hard nut to crack at $5.5 million that's for 14 acres. Um, let's see somebody else. Commissioner Kiano. Yeah, just, um, Bob, what do we What do we currently paying? Uh, a month. $8116 a month. OK? Thank you. Yes, sir. OK, um Anybody else? Commissioner Mayor I want to ask if this site was purchased by the city. How will it be used? You know, every 5 to 10 years is it you just keep adding spoils on top of it, or you use it as a base to get all the spoils there at some point and transfer and that's it would be basically our our station to just explain that a little bit. I mean it. It's an ideal site because it's a day adjacent to the reverse Osmos plan and be a terrific site for expanding into that in the future. We don't need 14 acres, but I don't. Uh, I do not believe that the family would, um split it out clean. When I saw the whole thing. It's also adjacent to the trail. And also we still have the project hope with the Shepherd center would be a perfect location to take a couple of acres for that, and, uh Relocate the shepherd Center from downtown the food Depo, uh, in along with whatever, uh, services that they're providing for the indigent to that new location as what was planned, so it's an ideal site. It's just An expensive site and again, if the commission wants to have an agenda and a discussion on that, Uh, C mansion, of course, could contact the stama family and bring some additional information to us on it. Thank you. What What? What about an off city site? If we go further further east, for example, so the land is a little bit cheaper. Uh, Further north. I mean, you might you have to travel I understand, but I. I just There is an ongoing need. We depend on the Antelope River. We need we need to start. Well, there's I don't wanna get into too much detail. But you wanna go. Just let me make it simple now, especially since we're into something what we've done, especially without being able to be successful and getting a real estate person looking for we're basically staff wise looking at chunks of land that would be possible. We found one but that that'd be more pricey than the than the Stas pros. That was completely out. That was a little more when we got another piece, So we're looking at the piece of the property that are big enough looking and we're And the one that's a good prospect. Um, you know, as soon as soon as one person gets back into town, we're gonna be meeting to see if that's even a viable process so probably within a month. I'll know there's several other sites that we've looked at and tried to find. Um if there's no hope for those, and, uh, the other prospects, it may be something that we may need the agenda and say, Here we are. We've we've got out ourselves and looked at some pieces of land and approach . Is it willing to sell? Is it going to be in the price range to sell? Um again, the one piece pretty ideal and stuff. But it was gonna be more than the sta property with offering because because they almost paid as much as the dam just offering. So um, we're kind of doing it in house and looking at those pieces. Uh the good prospect that, uh, the mayor talked about, you know, I know nothing except they're gonna meet with me to talk and to see if that's even a viable solution. Um if the board even has a viable solution to look at , so, so I'll probably have that information within the month so But we may need to bring this back and talk about where we are. If the $5.5 million doesn't give you a pause, To, you know to think about it. That's probably something that we should discuss it. It's gonna be up to the residents that make decisions. Secures a site for who knows what 4050 years for the rest of the secure site forever if we ever buy it long term planning so Yeah. Should be a discussion soon. First we go later on. Thank you, Mayor. Um Isn't it somewhat? The responsibility of the Federal government to help us with some of those grant money for this, or is it our responsibility? Totally for the site, isn't it their responsibility as well? The sponsor. The local sponsor in this case would be us is responsible for securing the upland site for the dewatering of the spoils material. Moneys for dredge can come from federal funds, but we are responsible for the spoil site. Where do other locations when they do a dredge, whereas their spill site is it usually local to their Location. It can be any site. Um you mean for this project or just general? Well no for you know many, many locations have garbage disposal. They don't dump the garbage on their own property. They could put it elsewhere. Do we have the ability to do that where we could, as a commissioner, Di Donato said, where we could rent a location in a in a different location and truck it in. Just have a smaller location for us to place it and then you know, ship it somewhere place the material. I think what? Maybe I'm I wanna make sure I'm understanding the question. I think maybe you're thinking of like a local small location for dewatering. Then you would move the material to another location, right? Yes. That's certainly an option as well. I'm trying to think of options other than $5 million, and I also would like to have that one on one, you know, with the city manager to know what other options we have before we discuss in public. You know whether this 5 million you know, it could look good to us in 50 years from now. 5 million, But right now, it doesn't look good because everything That's that we touch has been going up. Quadruple. So you know, I'm sure if we dealt with that a while back. It could have been $1 million. But we can't now so And I know as the, uh Ex vice mayor spoke about which I always agree with him on, you know, we have other dredging that we have to do. That's not just the ant, CLO Um, you know, River We have local that is long overdue. And I think I asked the city manager and I'm not even sure when the last time we actually did the local, um you know, dredging, and that needs to be done. You know, years ago, so I would like to see that we can have someplace to at least possibly temporary. Temporarily place this And then ship it out. Elsewhere. Um, if we can't have this location So, but again, I don't want to speak before knowing what's in his plan. That's it. Thank you. OK? Um, Commissioner Kanas go ahead. Um I know II. I would assume we're gonna have some before we move forward on something like that. We're gonna have some kind of a workshop or Um, special session, but What are the And just briefly. What are the Options for disposing of dredge material. Besides land. And dredge material be taken out on barges out into the gulf. They They do that, Um, it has been done. Um they are talking about doing what is called in situ disposal for the outer cuts, which are coming that dredge work is coming. Um so that it's basically you're taking the material from a shallow part in the channel where we don't want it and moving it into a deeper part. Um and then there's restoration. I'm sorry. Then there's um, materials that can be stored on spoils islands and things like that. I think those are much harder to get permitted than what is An upland disposal, which is what we did for this project, so there are there are other options. None are as good as the upland option. Thank you. OK, Are there any other comments? Uh, same manager. Of course, you want to finish up on this again? We'll When we bring it back, we'll have all those We'll be talking about all those. There's a lot more information I can offer, but it's probably not. Uh you, you know, uh, related to the extending the lease right now, So, um, if there's no further comments, may I have a motion to approve the lease extension? So moved sir. A second. OK, roll call, please. Mr Di Donato? Yes Commissioner Colas? Yes, Commissioner Colas? Yes Vice Mayor Eisner. Mayor is yes City Manager. Of course. Item six City projects Update. Yes, we wanna give another for the commission for the public. So update on our project, especially since we've got some good news on on some of them to do so, Bob, if you briefly give a review of the projects that we wanna get the commission and the public the information on where they are, Yes, sir. So I'll run through a list of projects here. Um I'll start with the mango street. Uh, just today. Mango Street got its first layer of asphalt. Uh, second lift is of asphalt is coming supposedly scheduled for tomorrow and the first level of striping by the end of this week. Weather permitting. So I'm gonna say my, uh, my best estimate for opening the road is next week. It could be as early as Friday. Uh, weather permitting. Lemon Street is completely open. We're working through punch list items , Uh, final things that need to get fixed tweaks here and there, But that project is a substantially complete now. The MK intersection project is experiencing, um, a little bit of delay. Maybe a couple of weeks we discovered some interesting things. Once we tore the road up. Um, most notably, um, concrete poured in places that you wouldn't expect concrete to be under a roadway. Uh, so having to remove all that is gonna cause some some delays and Um Pipelines that need to get relocated around it. But um, I think we're still looking at, um early to mid April to reopen MOK. Uh let's see pen and gross. You may have already seen, uh, some work happening out here on the stormwater project. Uh most notably, the work is happening in the pond reconfiguration. That's the large stormwater pond next to the school Elementary School. Um you've probably seen the lay down yard over here is active in a construction mode. I don't have a road construction work schedule just yet, but we're preparing for that, and we'll send information out. As that becomes available. Uh, we talked about the Antelope River Dredge. I want to let you all know that, um with the completion of the dredging work, um contractors now starting to demobilize and what they need to do sometime next week is shut down the channel for a maximum of eight hours, just like they did when they installed, uh, the pipeline. This is to remove the pipeline out of the out of the river. Um so they're gonna send out the, uh, local notice to Mariners. They've already notified the coast notified the coast. Um they're gonna be broadcasting this on the, uh, the radio channels. Uh the DH F, And then we're gonna issue our own notice of that, uh, through Facebook, and, uh, through all of our normal channels. Uh, as soon as I know which eight hour block that they've, they've got scheduled. They don't have that targeted just yet, But I should know that by the end of this week, and we'll have that out. Um Let's see. Uh I wanna touch on sea Breeze drive. We reached substantial completion on March 6th. We got the pump station working. Tested it extensively. Uh, we sent notices to residents last Friday to, uh, the, uh, notifying them that, uh, they're able to sign up now, um, and complete their paperwork. Um And now, um, as with most projects once you reach substantial completion now we're in the settling of the outstanding items. Uh, punch list items and all the other things that need to get fixed up before they get their final payments. Um I'll touch on be shore drive, Septic to sewer project. That contract is signed. We are scheduling a preconstruction meeting with the contractor, probably for early April and probably won't see contractors on site till, uh, early May as we get through the sharp drawings and approvals and all the things required to get a project going Um, just a few more for you here. Uh the spur trail extension construction is going to be starting soon. We finally got approval from DEP, uh, through which our grant is unauthorized to issue the notice to proceed to the contractor. Um Fire station. 70 design is 99% complete, uh, looking to probably may to advertise for construction bids on that we're gonna do a qualitative based, uh, RFP to help us, Um Get a good contractor for that. And then finally, um, you've seen we're making steady progress on the clerk's office. We know we're way behind schedule there. Uh but the contractor is committed to continuing to work through it, and, uh, getting to the finish line. So those are the main highlights for you, Um do you have any questions or other con projects you'd like to discuss? Let let's go to the public first. Are there any public comments on any of these projects? You wa 514 Ashland Avenue. Um, first off. Thank you, Bob and all your staff and I know Paul's gone, but he probably had some play in some of this. What a plate! This guy has to carry. And yet he's on top of it all. We are so lucky to have Bob and some of the other people in that department who Are diligently working hard to get these things done for us. I, um When I Go up mirrors to because of the closure at the MLK, Uh I don't turn it distant. I go up to north and today I went and I saw all the trucks there. And, uh, Did my rounds and I actually had to go on the other side. Uh, Deal with another business over there, and they're all the way through. They're and it's just nice and smooth. So I'm hoping that looks like You know, you'll be done soon. However being that I live on would come by you. I sometimes drive up to the bridge there to see. And I think middle of April is optimistic. Um There's those big concrete things they have to set into the ground and all the plates and there's like some weirs it just There's a lot of work yet to be done. But I appreciate the fact that our staff is diligently working on this. And because the ankle uh, basin was also discussed. I'm going to bring up another point of thought up after the last discussion. Eminent domain. I know you're afraid of the word. Sometimes you all looked at it for K course and Ms Kardash gave you some Information you could use. But if anything This particular site probably would qualify more. For any kind of imminent domain. If you're looking at other sites, you talk about eminent domain that might help. You negotiations. But in the meantime, it's still in your back pocket. Thank you. OK, thank you. Is there any other public comments? Mr Jump. Are there any remote access comments? If anyone online would like to speak on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed to install. And we do not have any raise hands at this time, OK? Um Mr Robertson and I've got just two questions on the, um on the, uh, Actually, the one is a request on the, um, notice to Mariners with regard to the closing off the channel. We could make sure and be timely to email the commission as well so we can contact people down at the sponge docks as well. Um I I'm sure some of them look at the notice of Mariners on a daily basis, but there's others that are more into the recreational boating and dependent on boating that, uh, people tie up Docs and things like that. They don't don't read that on a regular basis, but they rely on us to communicate that so that's the one request if we can make sure that the other thing is the, uh Firehouse going out to bid. Um I. I remember we have the discussion as far as the funding goes, Um maybe you can help me recall. Wasn't there some money being moved around for that and? Or was that Fixed as far as, um, Go ahead. That one was that that one was fixed. We're we're all set as far as I know, and last time with Ron that that money is all in place, and is it for what was it for $6 Million? Yes 6.7 million. I think in that that estimate is still correct. As far as you're concerned, OK, are still holding. When the design is done is it's something that the commission is going to see as well. Or is this gonna go straight out to bid? What What's the next item that we'll be bringing back to the to the board? Typically we just bring it back for approval of a ward of the construction contract. But we I'd be happy to bring it back to the board. If you'd like to see it before you Plan, So you're gonna hear it at the site plan will come to us. Yeah, that's that's excellent. That's what I was hoping for. Because there's gonna be some adjacent, You know, neighborhood issues and things like that. I wanna make sure that the residents at least have some of that knowledge of what's being done before it actually starts getting built. So that's good. Uh, let me go to the other commissioners. Any other commissioners have questions Commissioner Colas? Yes Thank you, Barbara Appreciate you putting in the outer cuts out up on the project list. Those are expected to start in January. January 2025, I'd only ask for the Orange Street improvements as you're designing to consider the on the north side of, um Orange Street between hibiscus and, uh Stafford to try to get an extra couple feet of ride away because that gets jammed up during the first Fridays as parking on both sides, Uh, start to occur, and there's a lot of, um, right away. I think we can, uh, take advantage of for that area that is gonna be coming within the next, probably a month or so. It probably the one of the main meetings. The um some different options on our is gonna come back to you before we go any further, So that's that's one of the projects that some items need to come back to you for you to make some of those decisions on stuff so That'll be coming. Probably one of the main meetings. OK, an orange That's it. Thank you, Vice Mayor Eisner. Thank you, Mayor. Um Do we have anybody who has volunteered to hook up to sub breeze yet? Yes. Um is there any who would be the liaison that if they ask, who does that go to? It says go to you. Does it go to who does that go to? We're facilitating that. But it starts with a building permit A plumber has to or the homeowner has to apply for a per a plumbing permit to connect to the sewer. That's where the process starts. And they they'll pay their fees through through that. Would you be able to tell me how many I mean, you've connected? No, no. Yeah. How many have applied? I don't know. It's probably two or three right now. It's only been since last Friday. No I know. I know when it went out. Give me OK? Um So right now, nobody's utilizing it. Correct I think we have one that's connected now. Right? That's the I know which one house it is. Um The Include road project I want to speak about later. Um The public safety building. Did we ever follow up and I know I didn't ask this of you. I asked it of The insurance. Did we ever get insurance money for that loss? I'm not. That's one of the few things I'm not clued into. I'm sorry. I don't sorry to pin you with that one. But I don't know I I'll be at the hands free. I don't know that either because I asked that pretty much every time I see it, And I just wanna a yes or no or a reason why they've denied it because it is a viable loss. And you know we have the coverage so Um. That's it for now. I was, uh thank you, Commissioner. Kiano. Do you have anything, OK? Um do you do you want us to accept this or this? Just if you'd accept a motion to accept the presentation on the project update, please. In a second. So moved I'll second it OK, Roll call, please. Give me D Donato? Yes? M Quis? Yes Commissioner Colas? Yes, Vice Mayor Eisner. Mayor. Yes. OK, Thank you, Mr Robertson. Thank you. The city manager. Of course we're going to continue on with, um, Item seven. And uh, request to negotiate development agreement for a property. 44098 US 19 Former driving range. Um yes. Um Renee's been presented. Just introduce you. We had this come before us and it it was turned down all your all you're doing tonight, and Rene will go to slightly more detail. All you're doing tonight is giving me permission to work with Renee and go. Them to try to negotiate an agreement with them to get an acceptable project. Um the concern is, there's a lot of other projects that are permitted uses. That could be worse not only for the location, but for those residents who had agreed to this project on so we wanna kind of work at what the qualms of the commissions were in the project, work with them and try to negotiate development agreement to bring you back. Um something, Um, you'd be given permissions for me negotiate tonight, and then there's a period of time, I think, 60 days. I have to bring you back a report and then eventually come back to you. But all you're doing tonight is giving permission, um to work with Renee and go back to them and negotiate to see if we can come into something that the board and the residents that area will be acceptable for. OK? Or do you want to add the? Yeah. So details to it. Please Uh, sure, before we do is the applicant here, representative I was looking around, and I do not see Ms Huber here. So I'm not sure. They very much knew the prop the meeting. It was on the agenda tonight. You go ahead and just give the overview. I say this is just the permission to negotiate. So, um If you recall, um Over the course of about six months starting in February and going up to, uh, July of last year. Um the board entertained between the planning and zoning board the board of Commissioners, um Um A couple of different attempts to amend the land use on this property, uh, from residential office, retail to commercial general. And really for two purposes. One to get a slightly higher, uh, Florida ratio, but more importantly, to allow conditional use for potential, uh, mini storage facility which requires that different, um, land use designation and also to remove the requirement in the comp plan for a basically a residential mixed use project, so That was the genesis of why the application came forward. Ultimately that through all that process, it was denied. Um because there were just you know , the board felt there was an inability for us to enforce the city to enforce a private agreement between the applicant and the adjacent residential land, community or residential community. Um the increase in potential draft potential traffic generation, Uh in were the questions about the duke energy easement. Um and then there, LA Certainly regarding the site layout, um, and inability to really enforce a site plan. So um, in order to address those concerns the applicant is requesting to negotiate a development agreement. Essentially they have submitted the same, Uh, site plan example. Site plan, you know, and conditions that they would be willing to enter into, um as part of that negotiation negotiation process, so Um, it doesn't bind the board. It basically opens it up for negotiation, but it the development agreement process does allow you to address those things that you couldn't address through a regular land Use Map amendment because you couldn't put conditions and things like that. So that's the, uh, the request from the applicant. Um It's uh It's a legislative decision as to whether or not you want to entertain that, so I'll have to answer any questions. OK, let's go to the public. Uh, did the applicants walk in Miss Vincent? I do not see them No. OK they may have thought it started at 730, but, um, no, that's OK. Any members? Well, this is part of the, uh This is under special consent. So we're we're OK. Um You know, I think we can address it without them being here. Um Is there any public comment here on this item? This is, um on on redeveloping the old driving range, which Caught fire and burned and now it's just a vacant piece of property sitting there. Um OK, Um, Mr Jumper. Are there any remote access comments on this? If anyone online would like. Make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed in to talk. We do not have any raised hands this time. OK? Uh, thank you, Um, M. I, uh Ms Vincent, I've got just one question or actually a request as well. Um my issue is more on public safety, uh, with the potential of increasing traffic on US 19. Um Yeah, I know that that was tied to the floor area ratio. And I if I remember if I if I recall correctly, you I know you sent us an email. If I recall correctly was being proposed right now would cut that traffic count to about half of what the original, Uh the current zoning would allow. Is that correct? With, um, using the Countywide plan. Generational trip per acre , um or trips, converting that to trips per square foot. Um it would, it would decrease from what would be allowed the FA R that would is being requested as a 0.45. The applicant is agreeing to a is stated in their application. They would agree to a 0.30. So yes, that would definitely reduce what would be allowed under the under the land Use map amendment. Um uh, if it goes forward, yes. Is the 0.3 Florida ratio? Uh, part of this Item that you're bringing to the commission. It would be OK. All right. Good. That's all the questions I have Vice Mayor Eisner. Thank you, Mayor. Um In that last meeting, we held outside a discussion on the wall that separates Brittany. Town homes from this property. And one of the discussions was who was gonna I think they said they wanted to take care of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, 25 years and I think we want at least I asked You know what happens at the end of 25 years. I didn't want to be in the midst of litigation. So did I. I don't know if you've were able to discuss that with them. No I have. I don't have the ability to negotiate anything. This is that's why it's in front of you that that can be a negotiation point for the city manager at the point that if we move forward that you know who has to maintain that concerns from last meeting. That's one of them. That's what you're giving me permission to go negotiate with him on You have my permission. OK? Anything else? No, no, that was anybody else. Uh, go ahead. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna support the city manager being able to negotiate, I think, uh, the applicants. Come back a couple of times for and, uh Try to work in within that zone, and it's just a negotiation point that this right now so willing to support it, and, uh there was somewhere in the back up that Uh , the HO, a president of the nearby property was in support with with most of the residents so Um Like to see it before. Yeah, I. I just wanna add the I. I know the city manager kind of follows these very closely and he's uh, very good at, uh, stating what he thinks is gonna go with the commission of what is not going to go and basically heave and his voice in the past for wasting your time to bring this to the commission because he knows it's not gonna work. Uh, those are the extremes, but at least he'll be there as well. And you said 60 days, right? I think it's 60 by the, uh, you have to report back within 90 days. Um, but they have they Have to now submit the full application, pay the fee and everything and then Yeah, Ms. Kardash. Do you have anything that you'd like to offer? Mhm Not on this. Um you know the point of being able to have development agreements as giving the city some more flexibility outside of some of the black letter law of the code. Okay? And this will be under our new ordinance. The um the five years ? Yes, yes, that's important, OK? Um If there's no further comments from the commission, may I have a motion to approve? Uh authorizing the city manager to enter into a development negotiate development agreement negotiations on the property at 44098 US 19 North. Oh, Second when we're driving range, OK, there's a motion and a second. Roll call, please. AD Donato. Yes Commissioner Kane is Commissioner Kas. Yes Vice Mayor Eisner. Yes, Mayor. Yes. OK, let's continue on at 730. We're going to continue on with the ordinances and resolutions application 230. 23-01 resolution. 2024-07 conditional use approval on site plan approval for property at um I 38954 US Highway 19 north and this is a quasi judicial matter. Um Ms Kardash if you could read the resolution by title, uh, go over the instructions for the quasi judicial process. Swearing any, um, a any witnesses that we may have, and also, uh, request Is any ex parte communications? Yes Thank you. Mayor Resolution number 20 24-07, a resolution of the board of Commissioners of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida, approving application number 23 and one requesting conditional use approval and application 23-98 requesting site plan approval to allow for a game room building Bingo hall totaling 9626 Square feet of gross floor area and including parking and other site improvements on property. Located at 38954 US Highway, 19 North and the highway Business district. Providing for findings providing for conditions and providing for an effective date. Hm? And following that, Yeah, go ahead. Um the following matter before the city of Tarpon Springs Board of Commissioners is quasi judicial in nature and a quasi quasi judicial proceeding. The board's function is to make findings of fact, based upon the evidence presented at the hearing and apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria contained in the city of Tarpon Springs Code of ordinances. This is a legal decision regarding the application before the board , the board may only consider evidence that the law considers competent, substantial and relevant to the issues arising from the Application and the applicable code sections If the evidence demonstrates that the application meets the criteria contained in the code of ordinances, then the board is required by law to grant the applicant's request. If the evidence demonstrates that the application does not meet the code criteria, then the board is required to deny the applicant's request. Any and all persons testifying at this hearing are required to do so under oath. All persons testifying must get their name address and must indicate whether or not they have been sworn for the record prior to proceeding with their Testim. All testimony and questioning at this hearing must address matters that are relevant and material to the application pending before the city's board of commissioners this evening. Any members of the board who have disclosures such as ex parte communications or conflicts of interest, please make your disclosures at the beginning of the hearing. The following is the established procedure which will be followed . First City staff will present its testimony and evidence regarding the application and the applicant will have the opportunity to cross examine city staff in any city witnesses. The applicant will have the opportunity to present their witnesses and evidence and the city will have the opportunity to cross examine the applicant and any of the applicant's witnesses, then members of the public opposing and supporting the application will be given the opportunity to provide their testimony and evidence. Then the applicant followed by the city may present rebuttal testimony and evidence and a closing statement for summary and the public hearing will be closed for the board of Commissioners. Consideration of this matter. Anybody who wishes to speak, Please stand and receive the oath at this time. As the applicant present. Please stand. Do you solemnly swear that you tell the truth on the matters before the city of Tarpon Springs Board of Commissioners here this evening, OK, please remember to state your name address and indicate that you've been sworn Yes. My name is Jonathan Kreidler Address 1272, North Jasmine Avenue, Tarpon Springs. And yes, I've been sworn in. Um Ex parte communications Anyone? Go ahead, Commissioner Ars. I don't know if this counts, but I did speak with his attorney on the prior case that came before us when they were buying the project, you know, buying the land. And did that convers. Well that conversation have any bearing on your decision, Or will you be able to make a fair and impartial decision based on the testimony and evidence here this evening? I It wouldn't affect me one way or the other. I mean, that was one thing. It had nothing to do with this. So yes, I would be fair and impartial. Thank you. OK? So you manage, of course. They give the staff report. Thank you. Uh, this is the application. Two applications, um, that will be covered by the one resolution. Uh, 23 01 is a conditional use application. 2398 is the actual site plan. Uh, the resolution number is 2024 07. The location is 38954 US Highway 19 north. Uh, the property contains about 1.3 acres. It is commercial general land use and highway business zoning. The proposed use on under which is the part of the conditional uses for a game room. Uh in, uh, more specifically, um, a bingo hall. The resolution also includes a site plan. Um this is to basically, uh, rebuild the site. It's a redevelopment site. Uh, if you recall, there was a, um, abandoned Mexican restaurant on the site set vacant for quite some time. Um that essentially has been, uh, demolished and so this the new plan will include, um, you know, uh, upgrades to the parking landscaping, lighting, um, and storm water facilities. And basically bring the site to current code requirements. So occasionally this is about 1000 ft. North of, uh, Kerman Road on US 19. On the west side of us 19. And, um So I'm sorry. This is just the general context of the zoning. This is all highway business. This is the park. Um, you have a mobile home park here. Um, this is unincorporated County property here. Um and then the commercial general land use as uh, predominantly north and south. It's a little closer. Um, site, um You have storage here? Uh, this is a new public storage site here and then again, this is just that vacant site tucked in the middle. It does share. Um, storm water, uh, with an adjacent site. This is what was there Previously. This is the old restaurant again. This is the new storage space you can see. Um, this is the survey from the previous site. And then these, uh this is the site planet landscape of kind of overlaid this This is the new, um, the new building. Uh footprint, so they're expanding the footprint a little bit. Um they're providing for landscaping, Um, in general, generally cleaning up the site quite a bit. Just an elevation. The interior floor plan. With regards to the conditional use. Um again. This is on US 19. The bingo Hall really should not have any, um, issues with compatibility. It's consistent with the conference of plan and there are no historical environmental resources. Uh, the city can, uh, provide services. Um The, uh Sephora's property values. The redevelopment site upgrade should have a positive impact on property values in the area. Um And no issues with public health, safety or welfare and does provide for efficient and orderly development. Since this is a redevelopment site. Um site plan criteria. It does, uh, comply with our comprehensive plan and the land development code. There are no issues with concurrency management and it, uh, the built the new site will comply with all building codes. So the staff recommendation is to approve. We do have a series of conditions on the conditional use. Um condition is, uh, upon receiving a cup of occupancy for the building, the applicant shall obtain a local business tax receipt for the new location and keep it active. And then the site plan conditions. Um all public utilities shall be verified on site by the applicants. Lighting and design standards must be met. Um, a DOT permit is required. To ensure that all drainage sidewalks sing curbing and other DOT right of way. Improvements are protected and restored if damaged, Uh, construction plans must be submitted, uh, in a consistent with the site plan. Um, and all requisite fees should be paid. Uh, the site plan will expire one year. Uh, we are using the one year expiration instead of six months because this flight plan was received prior to that going into, uh, that Going into effect and, um And then the advisory comment regarding public art, So with that I'll stop and answer any questions that you might have. Um M, Vincent, this is technically a redevelopment. I would suspect. Um yeah, the current owners had the other buildings and, uh, so basically everything is gonna be somewhat minimal. The utilities are there. Uh, there may be some adjustments to the storm. Water drainage if there's any change, but it doesn't look like there's gonna be a whole lot and, uh, the biggest issue is gonna be the reconfiguration of the parking the building and the landscaping is that pretty much as far as impact fees. They're probably going to be. Pretty close to a wash Those OK? Thank you. Um, any other commissioners? You preach in a line on Commissioner Kiana go ahead. Um. And been gone for so long. I forgot how the mechanisms were. So, um I guess this is a question, maybe for the applicant but is, uh How how many people will this house I'll defer to the applicant I. I don't have that number ticking in front of my brain right now. I'd have to look it up there to have that you want me to We'll. We'll wait for his turn. OK I'll I'll hold on. I'm sorry I have more. It's more commissioner D, Donato Anything OK? Um Sir, do you? Would you? Do you have any questions for Ms Vincent Cross examination or OK, No. OK? Ms Vincent, would you like to enter a city staff report into evidence? I would just quickly to, uh, Commissioner Cos's question. Um The Full seating capacity is 84, according to the staff report. The question was Is the parking adequate for 84. Thank you. Um yes, I would enter. Enter. Um, your turn. Yes. Do you have any, uh, presentation or anything that you'd like to add to the women's OK? Uh, commissioners. Do you have any questions for the applicant? And do you have any, uh, commercial? Did you have anything? No no. Ms. Benson, Did you have anything for the, uh OK, let's go to pardon me. He was like, Oh, Commissioner Kiano Go ahead. So this is just informative for my, uh, myself, maybe the residence as well with bingo. Do you have to affiliate with a nonprofit? Um Yes, we do all of our air Each night. We have an individual nonprofit, which is a charity organization that obtains a license through the um county through Pinellas County each year, OK? And how often would you be? Um, holding The bingo. Currently it's five nights a week. We may think about trying to expand to six nights a week. We currently we've been 14 years just about a mile and a half north on on US 19. What other gaming would be taking place in nothing else? Just bingo. Just bingo. I have to let my wife know. So excited about You better keep Dolly away from her. Anything else on my right side? Ok, um Go to public comments, or, uh, you you may sit if you'd like. Let me ask if there's any public comments on this item. Any public comments. Mr Jumper any remote access comments? Depending on online would like to make a public comment on this item. Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed to talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay? Uh, Ms Vincent, do you have any closing summation or No. OK? Close the public hearing and I'm going to go to, um Uh, any comments from the commission? Do you have any comments? OK? Um, now the motion to approve. The application. 23-01 and resolution 2024-07 So moved Se of second. Second Vice Mayor Eisner seconded If there's no further comments, roll call, please. Mr Di Donato. Yes Commissioner Kanis? Yes Commissioner Cuyas? Yes, Vice Mayor Eisner, Mayors. Yes. Item number nine. Application 203 023-68 resolution 2024-09 M kardash If you could read that, by title, please. Yes. Thank you. Mayor Resolution number 20 24-09, a resolution of the board of Commissioners of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida Approving application number 2368 requesting site plan approval to construct a boat storage facility on 1.04 acres, more or less of property located at 332 Anclote Road on the north and east sides of Anclote Road, approximately 0.42 miles west of North Pinellas Avenue and located in the WD. I, uh WD? I Waterfront Marine Industry development District. Providing for findings providing for conditions and providing for an effective date. This item is also quasi judicial. Would you like to go ahead and read the instructions and The usual Mm. Following matter before the city of Tarpon Springs Board of Commissioners is quasi judicial in nature in a quasi judicial proceeding. The board's function is to make findings of fact based upon the evidence presented at the hearing and apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria contained in the city of Tarpon Springs Code of ordinances. This is a legal decision regarding the application before the board , the board may only consider evidence that the law considers competent, substantial and relevant to the issues arising from the application and the applicable code. Sections of the evidence demonstrates that The application meets the criteria contained in the code of ordinances. Then the board is required by law to grant the applicant's request. If the evidence demonstrates that the application does not meet the code criteria, then the board is required to deny the applicant's request. Any and all persons providing testimony at this hearing are required to do so under oath. All persons testifying at this hearing must give their name address and must indicate whether or not they have been sworn for the record prior to proceeding with their testimony. All testimony and questioning at this hearing must address matters that are relevant and material. The application pending before the city's border commissioners this evening. Any board members who have disclosures such as ex parte communications or conflicts of interest, please make your disclosures at the beginning of the hearing. The following is the established procedure, which will be followed at this hearing for city staff will present its testimony and evidence regarding the application and the applicant will have the opportunity to ask questions and cross examine city staff and any city witnesses. Then the applicant will have the opportunity to present their testimony and evidence and the city will have the opportunity. Cross examine the applicant and any of the applicants, witnesses , then members of the public opposing and in support of the application will be given the opportunity to present their testimony and evidence. Finally the applicant and then the city may present any rebuttal evidence and testimony in a closing statement for summary, and the board of Commissioners will then close the public hearing for consideration of the item. At this time, anyone who's going to speak, please stand and receive the oath. Um do you solemnly swear to tell the truth on the matters here before the city of Tarpon Springs Board of commissioners this evening? Um when you come up to the podium to speak, Make sure you state your name address and indicate that you've been sworn Yes, please. John Jay Stekel, Uh, MJ Stokes Consulting. Uh, address. 7702 Cedarhurst Lane. Tampa, Florida 33625. And, uh, yes to the oath. Jason Anderson, 1257, Anclote Road. Tarpon Springs, Florida 34689. Yes, I have taken the oath. Any commissioners have any ex parte? Communications. We face So this is my question. I didn't speak with the applicant, but I spoke with other people. To gain information about the Enlo project, not their project. Is that something that I would have to declare Not if it's not related to this project, if it if the conversations that you had weren't relevant to this specific property and this specific development, then it doesn't fall within the context, um of an ex parte communication for the quasi judicial if it's generally about the ante and other items that are going on with respect to the end, quote, um, that is not specific to the criteria that you're supposed to examine for this particular item, So it's not specific to this. It's more in general. The ankle, Uh, road project, not their particular project. Yes then then that is fine. That does not require specific disclosure. I'd rather bring it up than not I, I You're absolutely right to do that, OK? And anyone else. OK? Miss Vincent. Thank you. This is application 23-68 for property at 332 and Clo Road. The resolution numbers 20 24-09 the property contains, uh, right. At one acre. It has a land use of industrial general and zoning of WD two waterfront marine industry development. The proposed development of the site is for an outdoor boat and trailer storage, and it does include, um, a covered boat washed down area. So occasionally, um, this is the site. Um it's right in that sharp bend of Antelope Road. Um We have, uh, industrial here, um, on Industrial plan development here. Vacant land. Um you have the marina? Uh, yeah. Um Even though this is a zone, multi family. It's actually single family here. Single family here. Um so you're in the presence of a residential and a mix of uses. Historically this site was Clyde Isles. This is the site that this picture shows, um a use that was put on the site, Uh, without, um, proper permitting that we're using it, basically for fleet storage for trucks. Um and that kind of spurred, um, a code enforcement case. Ultimately it's kind of led us where we are today. The site as we speak is, um is vacant. And just another site, Uh, aerial photograph. This is what so historically, um , This whole site was previously used, uh for boat storage and also had some homes that had been converted through the years . And they did Marine, you know, small boat repair and stuff as well. So this is an old Google maps. Photo This is what was previously on the site. So historically, boat storage was used on the site. Um, again. Just a picture showing, you know when Uh, when it was being used, um For this fleet storage. Um some. Also some improvements were made in the property again without site plan approval, Uh, with the entrances and, um some, uh, material being brought on site and all that's being rectified by our site plan process today. Um just a survey overlaid over top of the, uh Aerial photograph. This will be difficult to see. Um so essentially, um, just to go call attention. There's a there's a wetland area back here, so they will be removing some fill that was placed in that wetland buffer area and plant and removing invasives and cleaning up that, um, with the landscape plan. Uh essentially, they will have, um, a 28 spots for open boat and trailer storage on the site. Um, they have to get a right of way Use permit from Pinellas. County to, uh, for these entrances that were improved. Um, they'll have to meet county standards so they most likely they're going to have to be paved. Um, the county will also have to weigh in on the turning movements in and out right now, this is will be signed as an exit. Only um, again, we will defer to the county on whether or not they get to keep the both of those entrances. And since there are road um and they'll have to be able to demonstrate, you know, adequate, uh, throat depths here with the gate, since it will be Facility so that you know a boat and trailer can pull in and not obstruct traffic on on all 19 Excuse me on Anlo Road. They're also including a, um, a boat washed down area. This will, uh, be connected to city. Uh utilities. It will have a oily water separator. Um it'll have to be covered so that rainwater cannot intrude into it. So uh, that is amenity that they are providing that really is the only amended amenity that they're providing on site. Other than just the fact that you can store your boat there. So are we re re the excuse me Our review criteria. Um this is a generally consistent with the comprehensive plan. Um the application is consistent with the city's land development code . Uh, the adjacent residential is already buffered with fencing in the intervening um, Enlo road . I do wanna call attention to this. This is a bit of a change from, uh, the original presentation. So you know, there's been discussion about a sidewalk, The applicant would prefer not to build a sidewalk. There's no connection. Sidewalks on either side of the, uh of the property. Um Our code. You have three options. You can either install a sidewalk you can pay in lieu. Or you can obtain a variance. The applicant. You know, I think I'll let them speak to what their preferred option is. If option two or three if they want to pay in lieu or if they want to try to obtain a variance. We're gonna coordinate with Pinellas County. It's their road. If they tell us they would prefer that it be paid in lieu because in 567, however many years it is before the Antelope Road project actually goes to construction. Then they can do that. If they want to try to get a variance, we will again. It's our board of adjustments, but we're gonna ask the county for to weigh in on any kind of a variance application. So the, um so that's their options. There are no issues with concurrency management, um or with the city's building codes. So the staff recommendation Um, Initial recommendation is approval. Um Subject to the following conditions. Uh, the use is restricted to vessel and vessel storage. Only vessel trailer storage only, uh, should not be used for storage of inoperable vehicles. Recreational other vehicles, equipment, um, flammable explosive materials or similar items. That should say flammable, not inflammable, um, a permit for from Pinellas County for the proposed reconfiguration of the driveway connection, so I'll be submitted with the application for building permit. Um if the county restricts the site to one driveway connection, the East driveway shall be Using the Western driveway shall be closed and remote or removed. The applicant shall pay a lo, uh, fee in lieu of building. The sidewalk for the Land Development code or apply for a waiver of sidewalk of the sidewalk construction for our land development code again. The third option implicit but not stated as Or they had to build a sidewalk. The site, uh, shall have prominent posting in view of patrons, um, and the public showing a 24 hour contact information. Uh, construction plans, uh, must be consistent with the approved site plan. Uh, they do and all the fees need to be paid. Uh, they must meet the minimums of the Land development code, all other jurisdictional permits and approvals and again, this is another one that will get the benefit of the one year site Plan Expiration based on when it was submitted, um to the city. Planning and zoning Board. Uh, did review this, um at Feb on February 26th. I am with the full board. Uh, President, they did recommend approval. Uh unanimously and at that time there was no public comment, So with that I'll stop and answer any questions you might have. OK? Let's go to commission questions or any questions for the, uh Miss Vincent. I. I have a question. Um Again. This is a basically a use that's already in place. And uh, we're just needing to change the site. Of it. Is that correct? The back in 2011. I'll shoot you that Google photo that that you had had been established for many, many years . And that went that the property then was Cha changed hands. You know everything was cleared off of the property. And then some improvement started taking place. Then the fleet vehicle showed up. None of that was taking place with any any approval by the city, so that did prompt us to get involved. They are now coming in with a full site plan to, um Uh, to get an approval for the layout and specifically for the boat storage, which is a lot. The fleet the fleet vehicle. I know it sounds kind of odd, but this is WD two, which is waterfront Marine industry. Boat storages permitted Fleet vehicles or not, so it it is a It's a minor nuance. But we you know, we have called out in our comprehensive plan certain areas that are specific for waterfront related and what in in industrial uses, and this is one of them so that use Important. The um II. I know . Way back. Uh what? What's there right now is certainly uh uh uh uh, An improvement. I on the other hand, I. I do have the , uh uh, Web sever on the site plan has to be maintained. Is that correct? So basically the screen on the 6 ft high, which I believe is existing. The 6 ft. High fence is existing in the screen. Is there already? Uh, but the screen has to be maintained. Um Um, If you wanna make that explicit, I would add that to the resolution as a as a condition, Uh, because I don't think it's absolutely required along the front. I think it's actually part of, you know, it's on the site plan. That's what I was gonna say, is if it's in the site because it's probably gonna be covered because of the language that you have and the conditions. Let's say that the development has to be consistent with that. The other part. Do we have any ability to, um Require, uh, I. I know it'll be boats on trailers, for example, would do we have the ability to ask, Uh or two require that the taller boats that are on trailers be placed towards the back of the property to keep him away from the front of the property from an eyesight. I. I mean, I. I think I would ask the applicant that I mean, actually, the way the site lays out. It's um It's hard to see But The parking stops really are along the back of the property. Um So I think, functionally. That's how it's gonna how it's gonna operate anyway, but with a larger boats towards the rear I, I think that I think most of the boats are gonna be I'm gonna I'm gonna defer to the applicant about that. I'll ask them that question, OK? Um, that that's all I have. Um, I understand the rest. Are there any other commissioner? Uh Vice Mayor Eisner. Thank you, Mayor. I know we got a, um, email. Would you be willing to Uh, would you please? Make your comments regarding the responses that you provided to us as far as Um Notification. Who did? Oh so this is a permitted use by right in the zoning district. So there is no public notice for these types of applications. Um let me see if I can pull up the email and I'll go through the rest of them. Yeah, there were only like I think five or six, but I just wanna make sure that the residents know that those all those requests or questions were responded to properly. See. Um so again regarding the sidewalk issue explained the same thing that they have three options. Build it in Lou or get a variance. Um, and that we would defer to Pinellas County's input . When that decision is being made, Um the site plan indicates parking for 28 boats and trailers. Um there was a question about the entrances. Um we are requiring that the applicant obtain a right of way use permit for both entrances. It is possible that the county might require removal of one against their road. We will defer to them, Um And the proposed access will also be reviewed by Pinellas County to meet the requirements for placement of gates keypads to ensure stacking space available on the site plan. They've already showed the fencing and the gate being pulled back and they're indicating a throat depth. I think of at least 50 ft to it so to accommodate a you know a vehicle in a boat being towed in, they're not out in the middle of the street. Correct correct? Um and then the traffic generation, you know? They're indicating less than 20 trips per day, you know, going in and out of the site, we indicate, uh, you know, based on it, you know, less than non peak hour trips. In this instance, a peak hour trip is probably gonna be on Saturday Morning or Sunday morning, so it won't be during rush hour times for normal 9 to 5 traffic. Thank you. You're welcome. Any anyone else any of the commissioner's questions for Ms Vinson. Um OK, uh, any questions from the applicant from Ms Vincent? Just questions. If you don't have any. You don't have to. We're we're good. All right. Thank you. Uh, Miss Vincent, Would you like to have your staff report entered into the record? Yes. Thank you, OK? Um it's your turn. Now. Do you have anything that you'd like to offer? Yeah I, I think, you know, given some of the, um You know to say up in the air items as far as the sidewalk and the county permitting. So we just give some updates. Um we are working with the county right now, Um The fence is 50 ft. Uh, slightly high slightly longer than 50 ft as required by the county. That's an adjustment we made when permitting with them. Um the driveway. Aprons are gonna be concrete that's required by the county alternate to the to the crushed concrete. Um and as mentioned and discussed, Um Right now. We are looking At Uh, Ultimately, the waiver for the sidewalks because of the oncoming project. We're in discussions with the county on that. I'm sure on their end, they're gonna look at the alternatives. Um but of course for the conditions, you know, we would look at a fee in Lou or to build as well. Um it's just it's a very a very tight corridor. Um, which also makes it very difficult to build without impacting drainage impacts and otherwise, so Um Just thought that that would be just important to give that update. But that's that's all. That's it. OK um, any questions for the applicant? Ms Vincent any follow up? OK let's go to public comments. Are there any public comments? Concerning this project. Mr Jump. Are there any remote access comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed in to talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. OK, um M. Do I want to read? No, I know. Go ahead, Miss Jacobs. Um hold on before you read that, Um, I do want the commission to understand that. That is not a statement under oath so it cannot be considered as evidence. OK? This I this email that that email cannot be considered as evidence. Go ahead, Miss Jacobs. This is from Mary Anne. Ready. Number one include Aisle subdivision was not given notice of the potential change in zoning and property usage at 332 Enlo Road number two. They include a L subdivision. 19 houses shares the intersection of Marina Drive and Anklet Road with 332 a CLO road. This is a problematic intersection in that there is a dramatic left turn to get into an into marina drive as you're traveling west on Anlo Road on a daily basis. There are near misses with traffic traveling east on Enlo Road. I'm quite concerned. With how the boat storage property will impact this area and would like answers to the following one the number of votes that will be stored to the number, location and orientation of potential entrances to the property. Three the type of access to the property, physical keys, electronic keypad length of driveway area, et cetera. For the amount of traffic that can be generated At security access points. Three It appears that yet another sidewalk variants may be requested for this property based upon a potential fruit future project to improve the include road road project was used by the tar pinky Developers and the city in February, 2013 to forego the need for sidewalks along include road So here we are 11 years later, still differing to project. That is potentially 5 to 7 years out, and, according to the latest update, has questionable funding that being said the city should not grant grant variances based upon a project that may or may not happen. Okay? Thank you, Vice Mayor Eisner, You have your light on. Do you have anything? Yes, I do. Who or what? Say again. We haven't um Uh, you mean for commission comments. Yes Okay. I want to go back. Got two questions that I forgot to ask, So I know that we have to kind of go back to the beginning. Miss Vincent, Do you have anything new that you wish to add to your original presentation? Okay. Applicants. Um, I do have a question for you. As far as this fee goes for the sidewalk if the county gives the waiver Do we still get the fee for the paying into our fund? If the if they if the county says that they will accept a pay in lieu. My understanding is what we have done is that if it's their road, they actually get the payment, not the money, So it's not like the tree thing that we had a long time ago. Okay? That's a question for you and applicants. Do you have anything new that you would? I have a question for you. But do you have anything new that you'd like to offer from what you had previously done? I think what I'd like to add to is just based on the email, which I believe staff. Has the responses were to that email. I believe, um, but part of our coordination and permitting with the county for our right away. Requires sight distance calculations and showing on the plan. So the most recent the middle we provided to them. Is from the westerly most access point. The sight distance to the right, which is the concern from the email. I believe as 100 80 ft, which actually just passes the Eastbound travel lane. So we actually were very close to beating that, and that's based on a 35 mile an hour speed limit. The curve is a recommended speed of 10 understood very rare that people drive 10 but also understood very rare. Somebody's driving 35 or 40. So that is one of the main items. We are working with a man like I said before with the sidewalk of the driveway. Um and again, I think I just for the record one to state that Um The sidewalk if we do seek the waiver that that isn't really part of this approval, I don't believe we would have to seek that under the board of adjustments. So depending on how permitting with the county goes. We may go a different direction. Um you know, we're not gonna go seek that waiver if the county staff says You know, we're not letting that happen. So just wanted that to be on the record. I have a question for you concerning the taller votes. Would you agree to a note on your site? Plan to, uh, store the taller boats to the rear of the property, recognizing that if you need some spots up front, you you you don't have a choice, but the idea is to keep the visibility down from residents coming onto the road and those traveling around. On the West end. It's a It's a request. You can say no. You can say yes, I don't think it's going to change the outcome of your vote. 70 ft from the West End already. You know, I think we were talking about is the height that's gonna clear this 6 ft, Um, so I think we can I got a note, but I think we would want to threshold height, not just just to clarify . There's a big difference between a small bow rider and a great ey cabin and, uh, Tower. That's what I'm getting out. I mean, That's your decision. To move it forward. Yes, I mean, if that's what it's needed to move this project forward. Yeah okay, too can okay Card ish. Did you have something you wanted to ask you? Can we add that in as a condition or For me that in as a condition That's it would if it's a note on the site plan that would make it a requirement that correct Miss Card ish. I'm not sure how to implement something like that. That is not technically, I think a Site plan. Item. Because what you're talking about is, um. The basically the manner in which they're conducting the business. Um It would being for this one. Because you know the boats are not permanent. They're not permanently have fixed there The way that the fences that we had discussed Um, so that makes it a little bit different. Um this one in order to make it enforceable, you would have to Crafted as a condition and you would have to put some sort of threshold. Um, to make it enforceable, so it's clear. So on the it would be included in the resolution. Correct. Okay? Would that be acceptable to you to include that in the resolution? I would say within reason if the height is within reason. I mean, I think we want to verify that prior to agree. I'm not asking to conceal them. I'm just asking to, you know one. That's big difference when you've got three quarters of the bowel sticking above the fence goes above that, and you may even have the bow Rider just barely sticking up. That's all I'm asking for. There is a big difference in that. Okay Yes. I think the answer is yesterday. Okay? Um Are there any other questions for the applicant? Turn your light off, okay? Let's go back to public comments for very thank you. Let's go back to public comments, public comments . I know I was gonna say I haven't been sworn in. Relax 514 Excellent Avenue. I do swear to affirm to speak the truth. Nothing but the truth. Thank you, sir. Overreach. Overreach. When you looked at the pictures there. What's across the street from it? The marina. What's that area water? District water development. What's exact words Water Development district. That's part of your visual aspect of water development District. So people are going to move into those town houses that were lingered longer or into the Anclote area. That's You know the nice big fancy houses down there. You gotta expect it so If he's all full and big boat comes in only spaces up by the front or somewhere closer. What's he gonna do? Say I can't take your boat because the city won't let me put you up front. Come on. Come on. These guys are making good effort to redevelopment, a site That had this usage before, even though it may not have been technically legal or somewhere, they're clearing it up. Just sits overreach. Thank you. Okay? There any other public comments? Mr Jump. Let me go back to you. If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands this time. Thank you. Let's go ahead and close the public hearing. Um let me just say the condition that I had asked for. I've I've been going to. I know exactly what that area is down there. I've lived through that area. I've lived through the storage there. I've lived through the boats that were there. Let me tell you something right now. Without this site playing, it's a 1000% improvement over what was there. And one of the big reasons is that sometimes boats on trailers become an eyesore, especially with tarps that get torn and start blowing in the wind and all kinds of things that I don't care what you describe it. It's not about to me. It's just an ugly sight. So that's the reason why I asked for that to minimize that if it's not feasible, that I don't think code enforcement is going to go out there and start, uh, asking for something unreasonable. So that's my rationale behind that. Um but on the other hand, let me just ask before I go any further, Um, as far as the commission goes, if there's any objection to this, that would You know, just let me know. So we don't add it during the motion, because if there's no objection that would be an added to the approved the resolution with the addition of the condition on the tolerable oats being located to the back of the property, Um Commissioner or Vice Mayor. Eisner, You've got your light on or do So I don't know how you can Make this request. That's my big question. I believe me. I understand your Wanting it to look Appropriate. I'm also listening to What Mr Del Akkus said. I don't know how you enforce it. I don't know whether You know is the T tops sticking out. Is that where we draw the line? You know what I mean? So I don't know how we can put Restrictions on something and then Even if it were to proceed to a code enforcement comes and they see this. Whatever boat let's say it breaks the rules that we put out. And then they just wheel it and move it to the other side, and it's all said and done, so I don't know whether that is going to be a necessary thing. As you said, I remember what it also looked like before. I know what it looks like now, um without the boats in it, but I just don't know how to enforce that. So that would be my like. Do we make it If the fence is 6 Ft. Do we make it 2 ft. Over this. T tops included is outriggers included. You know, where are we ? Just This is taller boats to the rear of the property. That's all That's the only thing that would be on there. I'm not getting into size or heights or anything like that. I just don't know how to enforce what What's it all about? Boat that's taller than the one that's in front of it. I okay? I mean, I'm not from . It's a request. I'm not. You're asking me questions. It's not an issue for code enforcement. I'm sure that they're very responsible owners. If You know they're going to do what they can to abide by. Whatever our discussion is, If this is something that the commission doesn't want to do, that's okay with me. I just made that request. I know the residents out there and I know how they feel about this so How Commissioner Coglianese You have your light on? Yeah. Kit, the Like the city attorney said. If we're going to put it condition And we have to be specific about what that condition is. So I don't know that we're prepared right now to say. 2 FT. 3 FT. And what portion of The structure of the vessel. You know constitutes, um The measurement. Criteria. So I understand where you're coming from, and I understand. Okay I understand it, and I think it's a request. I don't know. Can we? Uh Ms Kardashian can we put requests in a motion? They have no spaces, Deficit E. Right so in order to make it unenforceable part of the condition you do have to be specific had does have to be specific enough to enforce and it does have to be enforceable by the code enforcement department. Um The Use at issue is not a conditional use of this property. The testimony and your code provides that it is a permitted use of this property. So for permitted uses, they're already deemed to be compatible with the surrounding area. Um so you really can't say that storage of boats is not compatible Use when it's deemed that is not a compatible use when it's already deemed by the code to be a permitted, use or use allowed by right. Well, I mean, like I said, I'm not willing to make an issue over it. I'm willing to withdraw my request as well. That's not a big deal. Commissioner Chaos I think what you're you're asking for his reasonable you don't want towering figures are close to the sidewalk or close to the road That's very narrow. And, uh, Alright, willing to even have a sidewalk installed so to request that on the north side of the properties Not too much of a request you're asking for. My concern is the sidewalk. And Do we have any? Please go ahead and tell us Do we have any authority of saying we want you to install a sidewalk? We have a procedure in our land development code that we have to follow. And so they either they really do have kind of spirit choices. At this point, they can Provide the sidewalk, but they also have in our code in the sidewalk section. A process to request a waiver. Or Mm? Excuse me a pay in lieu. Which um, again because it's a county road. We're going to defer to the county as to whether or not they would accept paying blue or if they want the sidewalk and then the third option is an absolute variants, which gets them out of even paying anything building or paying, and so Yeah, I don't know. I'll defer to the attorney as to whether or not we can, you know? Mandate something or take away an option. Um the way that your code is written. It does give them the option to do it, so they have the option and the criteria to meet each one of those options so whether they go for the variants, whether they opt to pay in lieu, um your code was specifically drafted to give them the option of which direction to take it. Okay Do we have the ability to when? When they're reaching out to the county to having a letter , maybe that the board of commissioners prefer A sidewalk. Um I don't do they is that part of a public hearing process for administrative process in administrative process. Um I mean, if you give me direction to provide to Pinellas County, that's what I'm going to do. But ultimately, you know, I was looking to because it is the county's road to defer to their process. They know better internally. What Is really gonna happen with Anclote Road, whether you know, regardless of where it appears in their five year C I P and it's in there. You know? Yeah the county is pretty tough on sidewalks. They want them. You know, I would. I would prefer to defer to the county on this particular issue as to whether or not that Is acceptable to not build and paying or pay in lieu. So that's You can't Here's what I will tell you is that you can express your preference, but I'm not sure that, um it will sway them necessarily one way or the other because I don't think they're obligated by law to consider it. Okay? So that's my overall questions, and I'll just have comments for the end. Thank you. Do you want to add that to the resolution to send a letter to the county? Sure I mean, you know this project that we keep talking about, you know, it's been talked about for decades around that. That area that industrial plan and, um We know that area We know that road. We know that 90 degree and going when you're Turn into York either coming back. To alternate 19 or you're gonna bend that sharp corner. I think that there shouldn't be a sidewalk. You know, I don't need to wait on the county to tell me that so I would like a sidewalk there. And as you know that property was used for quite some time. In a way it wasn't supposed to. So, um I'd like to see the sidewalk and that's for safety in that area and I'd rather get ahead of whatever Pinellas County's plans are as opposed to in that area Floods anyway. So the runoff for the storm water stuff. It's not gonna make that much of an impact with that sidewalk when there's already an issue there that we're all aware of. So those are my thoughts on it. Commissioner DiDonato. Do you have anything? First of all I think it's been covered reasonably well. I put puzzles me for this. Our city attorney twice a That perhaps we don't have the legal ability to tell them how to actually, as long as they're in the confines of the conditional used. We don't have that authority to tell. Okay Certainly. I think I think you've got what you asked for. They committed to try and do it. As far as the sidewalk is concerned. This is not I mean, if there if the county's coming in in five years or whenever they get here. I know for, for example, mirrors. I'll give you that project, for example, we had We actually solicit the county to move that item forward. Because it was it was going to take even longer than we had so many complaints in the city, so we were able to actually negotiate with the county to move that process the head in their scopes. But with it, uh, unknown basically, they said five years, but it could be longer that we all know that I don't know that I mean, I like sidewalks too. I think, but a sidewalk to nowhere or sidewalks is by itself. And that may get torn up and 5 to 10 years doesn't make a lot of alright. Certainly thought I agree with that. The one question I was gonna ask through Ford, Uh, Penelas was to redesign when they get to that point redesigned that entire Dogleg going to the right and the entrance into include aisles that was approved a very long time ago and it's been marginal everything. We're just lucky. There hasn't been any any deaths on that intersection. And if that happens, whatever sidewalk does get put in will be torn up as well. So I don't I mean I won't make one more statement. Yeah, that side won't won't lead anywhere. It's gonna lead people away from the road towards a very sharp corner that people are familiar with taking sharp, so we want people as far away from the road as possible. Thank you. I'll tell you what are there any other comments? I need to make a comment? Yes You want to make a comment? Yes. Go ahead. So I heard a lot of questions, and I also agree with Commissioner Di Donato's comments about I love sidewalks, too, but I'm not in agreement to putting a sidewalk. Even though it's not our decision to do where it leads to nowhere, because you're just gonna have to cross the street to the other side that has no sidewalks, either. But Prior to this. I did make a call. You know, we do. I do. Sit on forward Penelas and I did call with Blanton and I asked for his clarification just to give a clarification to the residents and to this board So if you don't mind Um I said to him, they, you know. I wanted to know about a resident and claimed that this project would take five years or more. And that there was no money to do it. His comeback was that's what we will determine as a board. When it gets done. And how it gets done. So he wrote Commissioner, this email seems to confirm That your resume cause he got a letter and email. It says the project consists of both roadway and drainage improvements. Improvements described briefly as below Rodeway. Um Preliminary engineering report will present the results of two basic alternatives to improve that roadway. It's for a bicycle and pedestrian safety. One alternative will construct an off road 10 FT. There's 12 FT. Multi use path for bicyclists and pedestrians, and the second alternative will provide for a 4 ft bike lane adjacent to the roadway with 5 ft sidewalks for pedestrians. Both alternatives will widen the existing roadway to 11 FT lanes. Drainage The project will also address current flooding issues and provide detention ponds and new outfall to the river to help mitigate the majority of the flooding. The locations and the size of the proposed ponds and location of the new outfall. Will be determined in the P D and E and design phases of the project. He said, for any additional information, or if there's any other questions. Feel free to contact me. He also said in addition We have a stag grant from the EPA for this project for $3 million Accordingly after the perfect phase of the project is finished , I will be preparing a scope and eventually an RFP for consultant to conduct the assessment and prepare a new preliminary engineering report. So the bottom line is we do have some money for it. He is predicting it could be five years out seven years out. But this week we've had really no voice on forward Penelas. We do now. And as I said to the city manager earlier today. I'm not gonna let them sleep without knowing that this project Is on Tarpon Springs. Typical tongues so and I think you know that as well. So um, it gives you an idea It's going to be made safe. But right now until inflation, you know, tones down a little bit or things change. Um It's going to be what it's gonna be So okay. Okay Okay. So for me, let me withdraw my request. As far as the boats and stuff like that, and I'm just rely on the good nature of the owners to Take that at heart. And if you do, thank you very much. And if you don't That's okay too. But at least we just wanted to make that request. Um Is there. If there's no further comments, I'd like to have a motion on the resolution, the application and on the resolution with any condition that you may wish to add to that and if there's no condition, just straightforward application, and, uh, motion on the resolution. I would do a motion, but I don't I would only do the condition that has been given to us through planning and zoning and planning Zoning board. Second Is that a motion? Yeah, That's second. Okay? All right. Thursday. Oh, further comments roll call. Can we show DiDonato? Yes, Juliana's Yes, Commissioner. Cool Yas. Yes Eisner? Yes Kyoto's Yes. Okay let's take it's 830. Let's take a break and we'll reconvene at 840. Okay, counting. We're gonna Reconvene at, um 8:40 P.m. And next item is Item 10. Application 23122 and uh and 23-123. Uh, resolution. 2024-06 Ms. Kardash If you could read the resolution by title, please. Yes, Thank you, Mayor. A resolution of the board of Commissioners of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida Approving application number 23-1 22 requesting conditional use approval and application 23-123 requesting site plan approval to allow for a seasonal short term rental facility. RV Park with 16 spaces, lodging units and including parking, landscaping and other site improvements on property located at 51251451. 520 Island Drive and 520 Hill Street and the S DC Marine Industrial Commercial transect Zone of the Sponge docks and CR, a special area plan providing for findings providing for conditions and providing for an effective date. OK? Would you like to? Yes. This item is also quasi judicial and the F and will The this matter will be before the board of commissioners in a quasi judicial nature in a quasi judicial proceeding. The board's function is to make findings of fact, based upon the evidence presented at the hearing and apply those findings of fact previously established criteria contained in the city of Tarpon Springs Code of ordinances. This is a legal decision regarding the application before the board , the board may only consider evidence that the law considers competent, substantial and relevant to the issues arising from the application and the applicable code sections If the evidence Demonstrates that the application meets the criteria contained in the code of ordinances. Then the board is required by law to grant the applicant's request. If the evidence demonstrates that the application does not meet the code criteria, then the board is required to deny the applicant's request. Any and all persons providing testimony at this hearing are required to do so under oath. All persons testifying at this hearing was give their name address and must indicate whether or not they have been sworn for the record prior to proceeding with their testimony. All testimony and questioning at this hearing must address Matters that are relevant and material to the application pending for the board of Commissioners this evening. Any board members who have disclosures such as ex parte communications or conflicts of interest. Please make your disclosures at the beginning of the hearing. The following is the established procedure, which will be followed at this quasi judicial hearing. City staff will present its testimony and evidence regarding the application first, the applicant will then have the opportunity to ask questions and cross examine the city staff and any city witnesses. The applicant will then have the opportunity to present their witnesses and evidence and the city will have the opportunity to cross examine the applicant and any of the Witnesses, then members of the public opposing and in support of the application will be given the opportunity to provide their testimony and evidence. Finally the applicant and then the city may provide any rebuttal testimony and evidence in a closing statement for summary, then this, the board will close the public hearing for consideration at this time. Anyone who is going to be provi providing testimony, please stand to receive the oath. OK Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth before the city of Tarpon Springs Board of Commissioners here this evening, please remember to state your name address and indicate that you've been sworn when you approach the podium to speak. The ex parte communications. Uh, let me start . I did have a conversation with the city manager and asked him to do a, uh, traffic analysis on the, um, traffic circle. Uh, with regard to, uh RVS being able to negotiate that that circle, um And is that going to be entered as evidence this evening? The traffic traffic study or has that not been completed? It's it is part of that record. Ms Vinson followed up and actually made that part of the backup and her report. And you will be able to independently then consider the evidence as it is presented in the hearing this evening. OK, Thank you. Thank you anyone else? R Kanis. Um I had the pleasure of doing some Financial work for Mr Faith. It's been probably more than a decade. Um So I did have, uh, a client relationship with him at one point. The, um And I don't think any either of that of these items constitute, uh, conflict, but I'll disclose them anyways. Um My wife. Uh, owns property. On Athens Street in Greektown. Of which, um Most likely we will be building a home, so I'll be living in that neighborhood. And anything that goes on, there would have some Effect on My quality of life. So, um Those are my disclosures. OK, and, um With respect to the, uh, representation of the applicant. Did it concern this project? No And will it in any way, uh, in your to yours or your family's or your businesses? Um private, uh, financial benefit or detriment with respect to the decision that you make here today? I do not believe so. And uh, outside of just your general knowledge of the area. Is there any reason why that general knowledge would prohibit you from making an independent decision based on the evidence here this evening? It would not OK. Thank you. Just have a clarification on the residency. Uh, issue Is that really an issue? It is not, um it doesn't certainly does not hurt to disclose it. Disclose it. Um but it doesn't constitute either a conflict. It just is a reflection of your general knowledge of the area where the application is being sought. Because I live there too. But I won't You know, so Um Anyone else? OK so you manage? Of course. Ms Vincent Vincent, It's yours. Thank you. Thank you again. This is application. Two applications under one resolution. 23-1 22 is a conditional use in 23 1 23 is the Associated site plan. Resolution numbers. 20 24-06. The property location is a series of addresses 5 12 5 14, 5 , 15, 5, 16, 5, 20 Island Drive and 520 Hill Street property contains approximately 1.3 acres . Um, it is in the commercial redevelopment district. Uh, land use wise, which is under the in part of the sponge docks. Character district. Um, and the zoning is S DC, which is Marine industrial commercial. Uh, the proposed use of the property as a seasonal, short term rental facility in the form of an RV park. Uh the proposal is for 16 RV parking pads, um and lodging units so each each HR V constitutes a lodging unit. Um parking drop off area, landscaping, fencing and other site improvements are proposed. Um the operation will be managed and overseen by the existing Total Cove Marina offices. Uh the turtle code, Gen general manager will handle any guest issues and staff will assist our guests with check in and check out. Um the applicants, Representative, Uh uh, Who's Gove with North Side engineering , and the, uh owner SNN tarpon Enterprises. These are the same individuals that, um Operate Turtle Cove Marina. So just a little bit of location and context. So the properties in question are outlined in in yellow here, So this is Island drive. So we have the traffic circle here, Um, Island Drive Roosevelt and, uh, so there's 22 large parcels one on directly on the water and then one on the other side of island drive adjacent to the existing clubhouse. Uh, which, uh, was part of the Turtle Cove Marina development. And generally again just looking at the future land use designations in the area. The CRD is the sponge docks. Special area plan. Um in in downtown, Uh, Special area plan, Which is this kind of light teal color. Um Roosevelt Boulevard is kind of the dividing line or the line where, um, Greek town begins. Oh, the excuse me, the Greek talent historic, uh, and cultural resources District. Uh, Is on the other side of Roosevelt Boulevard. So close up of the site. This is the Turtle Cove clubhouse and parking lot. Um and then, So this is the area where the parking pads would be proposed. There is this, uh Buildings here that would be removed. So the site plan. You have a so that just a little overview that actually intend to raise the road profile here. Um, because they will have to bring you know the elevation up of the RV pads. Um just to deal with, you know, high water issues from, uh, from from tides. Um uh, so that's proposed. There's a pull off here, um, Of the routing perspective. The um the outlook is the RVS would arrive, Uh, via this via the spa jocks and the applicant will do a better job of explaining this, but they were brought around and come this way in island drive. They would drop off here, if necessary. Um to, um speak with staff and get situated and enter into the to the project. So these are the parking pads. The rest is green space around them, Um, again, parking pads here and then this is kind of like Extended pavement area for turning radiuses and things of that nature. Um, they do propose to put exterior landscaping in, um within the smart code. The only landscaping this really required is a long frontages. So they're certainly meeting that and then providing additional landscaping on the buffer. Uh and, um al along the water. Um site circulation again. I'll let the applicant uh, address this a little more, but they do have appropriate turning radiuses, um , and for the size of the RVS, so they've ran those turning radiuses, and they're demonstrated here for functionality. So under the smart code, you can request um, warrants. If they're justified. They are requesting two warrants . Um, the first is, uh, The required lodging for a lot of spaces for a lodging. A unit would be 16. They're proposing 13. Parking spaces, not every vehicle. Or every RV will have a, you know, be towing a vehicle . Um based on, uh, use, uh, and similar uses that have been examined. They are proposing the nine of the nine of the pads would have, um, any of these would have extended parking so they can actually accommodate the RV and the car on site, and then they will dedicate additional five spots, Um, in the existing Turtle Cove parking lot, um, for those additional additional parking spaces for to accommodate The RV that may be towing something towing a vehicle that would not be able to park one on a parking pad. Um, importantly, That's the dedicated parking spots. If you look at the entire site plan and required parking, um they actually still have excess parking available. It's just not dedicated specifically for the RVS. So um, so it's really a reduction they're requesting of three required parking spots. Um The smart code also requires what's called a street screen, which would normally be a wall. Um unless a hedge or fence row is approved by a warrant, which is what they're asking for to keep it more open. Keep it a little more green so they would have a 3 ft. Wrought iron fence with Indian hawthorn hedgerow, Um, in longleaf pines. Um, a along these frontages. So it helps keep things open, um, along the water. So some context and what went into and I want to stop a little bit and kind of just talk about the whole conditional use itself. Um And within the smart code, you will not find a listing. You know anywhere that says RV Park. Um you do have AAA grouping for transient accommodations. Um that includes hotels, motels, Um Seasonal short term rentals. So we took the same approach that we did with with the recall. We did a conditional use for the kayak facility, um, across from the old Pappas restaurant. Um again, Commercial Recreation is not called out anywhere in the smart code, either. So we took the approach of The you know, seasonal and short term rental itself is called out as a use as a conditional use. And you know in that character district and in those in in that transit zone, so To give it a process and a fair hearing. We took the conditional use approach, just like we did with the kayak facility as well as with, um stumpy, the act that hatchet throwing place again, not anything. It's really called out , so in order to give it a process and not just be an administrative No, you can't do that. This is the what we were following previous practice and at least allowing it to come forward. As for conditional use of, um consideration so Along with that, you know, in the context, it is a mixed use area. Uh, so you have a mix of retails , You know, restaurants, marine related uses parking, um and residential in the area. Um it is buffered from nearby The locn itself is very close in walking distance with the tourist areas and with the sponge docks, So you know it does lend itself to, you know, Park and, you know, visit. You know the area in general, um, trip generation. Is uh, the project would generate very few peak hour trips less than one per occupied We a campsite. That's the way the way that they use the term in the ITE, um, in the location minimizes the need for guests to use a personal vehicle. Um And then you know RVS are able to navigate, you know, in and out of the proposed project site, Um , regarding the navigation. Uh, as the mayor mentioned, we did perform. A couple of different sets of we had our engineers of record. Do this of looking at the turning radiuses on the circle. It's on the roundabout itself. Those are provided, um as emailed them to you, and they're also provided in the agenda. Backup, um through the portal. Um You can take those kind of a face value, you know, a typical 45 ft. RV has, you know can clear these make make the turns necessary to access the site? I'll I'll leave it at that for now, and I'm sure the applicant will talk a little more about that and again some of the specialized equipment that are on newer RVS, which is what he's going to be limiting to, um one second. I need to Get my screen back up. Out on me. Um, he can speak more to those turning, you know? How those work and the prevalence of them in the industry. So as I said, this is in the sponge docks Character district, which is primarily con, you know, comprised of tourist oriented commer commercial businesses. Restaurants um, as well as water industrial waterfront uses. There is a specific objective in the in the Special area plan specific to that to the sponge docks to provide tourist accommodation options such as hotels, motels, inns and other short stay lodging within walking distance of the tourist destinations of the sponge docks. So we took that into Consider. Is looking at this from a big picture perspective. Um so and again. It's not a traditional lodging facility, but it does provide that short stay accommodation so it would be subject to our six week minimum. Uh minimum or maximum. Stay, Um And then that is set up as an enforceable condition. So intent being we don't want this to turn into A place where people just live full time. It is for Tourist accommodations. You come in. You're there for a few days and then you go on to your next location. Um and then, regarding future development again, it doesn't. It's a good use for the property and that it you know, If somebody wants to redevelop it in the future, you're not having to undo a lot of a lot of infrastructure, um in in in buildings. So an example photos provided by the applicant. This is from, um, another similar. Uh uh, Park. I think it's you know, further south in Florida, but it gives you the flavor of what the intent is. So under the conditional use review criteria. Um, it does. Um, the project does conform with the standards of the smart code, at least from a, you know, physical perspective. Um, whether or not the use is, you know, ultimately appropriate as a conditional use . That's going to be part of the discussion. Probably this evening. Um The We do think that based on the evidence that the project is compatible with the mixed use area and supports overall intent of the character district and provides that short stay accommodations, um, that are called out as an objective. Um, uh, We do not think that it's uh, We do believe that it's consistent with this conference of plan and the special area plan. Um Regarding, uh any impacts to environmental or historical resources. The project is it's not an environmentally sensitive site, um they will be providing for storm water. Drainage Um, that doesn't exist now, um, in improving, uh, that situation, Um, it is across Roosevelt Boulevard from the Greek town National, uh, register historic district. Um so we recognize that, but it is not within the district. Um And we, you know, the general area is mixed use, and the site is buffered from nearby residential so we don't really think that it will adversely affect property values. Um we have the ability to pres to serve this with public facilities. Um, the each pad will have water and sewer hook ups as well as electric. Um and, um so they The city has evaluated that and can provide facilities and accommodate that, Um It's uh it's an underdeveloped, you know, utilized underutilized site within the area. Um again, it's kind of a holding type of use until maybe a more permanent development would occur. Um and then we do not think that it would adversely impact the general health safety and welfare. Regarding the site plan again. We don't think there's any issues with the comprehensive plan. Um Applicant application is found to be compliant with the land development code. If we do have those two warrants that are being requested, um No issues with concurrency management or building codes. So the staff recommended, um the initial recommendation prior to going to the planning and zoning board was to recommend approval. Uh, with, uh, the following conditions, the total number of RV and parking pads and lot shall be limited to 16 under the site plan. Um construction plans must be consistent with the approved site plan. Uh, expiration of six months. I mean, it is under our new, um Uh, timeline for expiration unless a construction permit is obtained. Um and then at the planning and zoning board in February, they did review this and recommended approval. Uh by a 70 vote, um, including the warrant request with some additional conditions of the, um , the first on the conditional use, and this is by recommendation of the city attorney. The rental term agreement shall be for six weeks or less in compliance with the definition of seasonal short term rental in section 6.1 of the Smart Code, and then the SEC. Another condition was At the on the site plan at the time of the building permit application off sites Parking and RV Park must be titled in the same name. If not, a parking agreement must be recorded with Pell County Clerk. So if you need more clarification on especially number three of the site plan, I'll defer to the city attorney on that. Uh, we did have three people speak on this item. Concerns expressed were the traffic impacts in the surrounding area. Flooding concerns the use of underground vaults and impacts of the RVS, um in Greek town. Oops. Sorry. So uh, with that, Um, I will stop and answer questions. I may candidly defer them to the applicant because he's going to be better versed to answer some of your questions. I feel like but Let's go. Understand Um, let me I've got three questions. Uh, for you one in the, uh, application packet. There was some, um Uh, Technical information provided, for example, the geotechnical report and also, uh, the drainage. Uh, storm water drainage. Uh, concept that our Drainage engineers review those? Yes, they did. And did Is there a statement or anything that he they they came up with. It's not in the report that normally would have been probably in the TRC review. Comments Um, which we didn't did not include. But we would not have moved it forward if our engineers of record weren't satisfied with with the proposed drainage solution. OK? They did. Yes. They did. Review it more than once, And but we don't have that information. I don't have it handy. Um well, questions are going on. I might be able to look it up through elan. OK? Um The, um The dimensional requirements as far as, uh, I. I know you mentioned the smart plan and the special area plan the, uh, smart code The, um We do have that traffic that RV District whatever, uh in our land Development code, and it gives provide some, um, dimensional requirements, but I does that play into this at all. You can use it as a reference. Um, our our our RV park requirements in terms of like individual like pad and you know, lot sizes and stuff. Pretty much comports with, um, with the state. Um uh, The applicant will probably speak to this, but he has gotten his permit. From um, our approval through Department of Health for the layout and meeting the minimum lot size requirements. Um I mean, our our minimum area requirement in the in the RV Park designation is much larger than this. It really contemplates a large like a co. A campground type of thing. So it it it's but the individual like lot sizes and things, this does does mean it did they provide that as part of their application. The authorization or the permit for the RV the approval for the RV? No That's something they've obtained since it went to planning and zoning board. Um since the planning, planning and zoning board they my understanding is the applicant has gotten his approval from Department of Health for the layout and as an RV park, that was that's wasn't was I was not provided to you. It was not no that that's that That's taken place since because I was gonna ask the, um, the Florida Code is a little different than in terms of nomenclature between Are land and development code for the RV dimensional requirements and that and I was going to ask you, but since that's already been, um, supposedly approved, then I'm gonna hold off on that. The other question was on the, uh, on the traffic circle. The, um Um. And also trying to, uh harmonize that with the RV Park. I. I asked the city manager a question today. Um you know, with regard to the traffic circle, is there something which you know that the conversation I'd already had with him? Um would we be able to limit the size of RV? Uh RVS on Dodo Kines , And I already knew the answer to that. The answer is no, not as long as you don't limit everything else in terms of size and length, and I would suspect the assistant chief would Uh, agree with that? Uh, so we've got the necessary requirement of the, um Of the semi trucks, but we don't have The Um uh but they're necessary. But the RVS are different, so we don't We don't have that ability. I'd like to have something stated For the record on that if we can, If not then then Is the ability to limit the size of just generally of RVS? Whether they're going here is my question is, can we limit the size? Of RVS traveling on Dota Kine. At large. I would have to defer to the police. Can you limit it subject to what this gentleman is allowed to receive on his property. Perhaps that's a conditional use. So I think that might be. You may be able to do it specific to him. But can you tell somebody that's just Who in the area in their RV bus and takes a you know. Or right on the do deck that they can't be there. I have no idea. I I'll defer to them. Ms. Kardash, can you help us with that? Right So, um on less. There's something specific about the roadway that makes it hazardous for vehicles any vehicle of a specific size to travel on that specific roadway. No you cannot limit it. Um and there would have to be studies supporting that, and it would have to be there would have to be signage that says Vehicles of this specific size cannot travel down this roadway. So you can't um, just say that that those vehicles can't limit down or can't go down that Road, but you can impose a conditional use, um on Uh, the property that is reasonably related. Right So one thing as we kinda enter into this, um, discussion about, um What you might be considering for this property. I do want to read from your code. The definition of a conditional use. Um a conditional use our uses, which are not permitted by right and Spec specified zoning district, but which, when subjected to a review, according to established standards may be approved subject to certain restrictions and safeguards and what the law provides. Um with respect to those conditions is that the conditions imposed must bear a relationship. To the goal of compatibility between the use and the surrounding area and should the property owners affected by the application, decide to challenge the conditions as unreasonable, the court can consider whether the conditions are whimsical and capricious. So it's important that when you look at the conditions that you're imposing, um, that they be specifically related to whatever harm you are trying to prevent with respect to the condition that you're opposing the goal is to The, um use compatible with the surrounding area. That's why it's conditioned. That's why it's considered conditional and not a use. That's permitted by, right. OK thank you. Those are the questions I have let me. Um, go to the commission. Vice Mayor Eisner, You've got your light on. Thank you, Mayor. So I know. Um the mayor touched base a little bit with this, but I needed to specifically you have down. Um, seasonal Versus short term At two different things. What season? Are we referring to? Oh, OK, it really is. It's kind of two terms that mesh together. What that basically means is The maximum length of time that an RV can be on That site is six weeks. A specific RV . After six weeks, it would have to go somewhere else not just move to another site on the on the base, So it's just like a It's the same standard that we use for a tourist home. The length of time you cannot be there you have you have it has to be six weeks or less. Um So it's not really a seasonal thing. It's a short term. It. It's a short term thing. We use the terms kind of interchangeable, but it is a it In this instance It is a short term stay. No more than six weeks. I just want to make sure that we're not referring to That it could be used during the fall season when the snowbirds come down and then during the summer, that's that's correct it. That's what we were discussing so earlier, you said. People would come down and use it for a few days and leave. Right? That's what you said. That's their model. I. I understand. I heard I heard their model. Um so why do we have six weeks Because that's what our that's what our code that that's that's the that is the absolute maximum again. As a conditional use. If you want to limit that to something less than Otherwise, it's no longer the we have to have a limit. Our code is six weeks or less for the stay After that, it's considered Residential People live there and we that's what that's what we don't don't want so we don't want it turning into a full time residential RV Park. It could be shorter by condition. OK, I have a lot of facts that I found and that I would like to speak about, But that would be later during the comments. Yes, OK. Let's go to Are you done? Vice Mayor? Yes, OK, um, Commissioner Kiano. I have a lot of comments, but I'll save those for later. I, um How many entities Own the property that this Is, uh This project's gonna Be placed on Because I think it's under our corporation . So I isn't there multiple entities. Um when this was Parte different corporate entity. I don't know if that's since been changed, but at the time of the planning and zoning board meeting, um it was a separate entity. So you had one entity that owned the main portion of it there And then were those additional side parking. Um spaces are there that parcel was owned by a different entity, which is why I said there had to be an easement. Um that is recorded, and it should be actually not the Pinellas County clerk. But Pinellas County public records. Um, is where the easement should be recorded. Um from one parcel to the other, Um , In order to meet that requirement, we have to have a guarantee that that requirement is always going to be met. And the only way to do that is, you know, with having something recorded that says that that will be in place. Um Well, I'm sorry was the other part of the question? That was my question. OK, so I'll I'll, um Share the relevance of that later. Um Question. That's all I have. I had the same seasonal. I had the same seasonal confusion, but you cleared that up. Um Commissioner Kask have, uh, Miss Benson, Can we go to the location and context page where it's zoning? Where basically has the special area PA plan boundary with all the different zones inside? This one or this one, OK? Yes, ma'am. Sure. So, uh In this special area plan. We have We could see about four or five different zones. Uh this S DC in which the applicant is in that zone, trying to apply for how is that different from the S DB that's runs on the north side of the SAP. The SDB actually has a little more of a, um A tourist Uh, Accommodation. Um this is was originally this was a little more Marine industrial but mixed so there's not a ton of difference between the two of them. To be honest with you. I'd have to delve into the actual details that you know. And look at the district descriptions in the smart code, but it's recognizing that these were special districts, their waterfront. Um and they need to be certain things. This one, I would just say, has a little more of a Marine industrial Emphasis versus a little more tourist in emphasis. Yes ma'am, And that T five C and that T four a area do they have the same potential if conditional use was granted for short term over overnight stay. So let me talk about that. Um, because, I, I think what you're getting at is like Are we setting a precedent here by allowing this inside the smart code, so I don't think anything sets a precedent. Um, I would say. In this instance. This You're setting. You're setting a bar. Um This is a small site. It's very limited number they're providing They have facilities to serve it. They've got the clubhouse. They've got the pool. They have the on site management. You know to me, you're you're kind of a if it's approved, you kind of setting a standard of what might be appropriate. If someone comes in , you know, And with something that just says I wanna park, you know. 45 RVS on an existing paved parking lot, You know, lot line to lot line it's still gonna be. It's gonna be a conditional use. We would give it the same consideration, but I think you know, I think everyone each one is gonna be unique. And so I don't know if that gives you completely answers your question, but Sure, OK, it seems like a case by case on the properties that we're referring to, and Part of the criteria. Um Number four. The use will not adversely impact historical or environmental resources, and I'd have to ask you, um historically. What part of that special area plan has been considered overnight stay or at least Temporary overnight. Stay with your personal RV. Because we're not talking, um, a hotel in which you're going to sleep inside a building that you do not own. You're going to sleep inside a rest area or overnight stereo. In a belonging in a, um A home mobile vehicle. That's yours. So it isn't that in a way. Putting People in the coastal high the coastal high hazard area with their own personal equipment and belongings. So regarding coastal hazard area, um They They will have a mandatory evacuation plan . If there's if you know the again you have to think of this in terms. This is short term. This is not park in an RV and I'm gonna live there for a year. You basically you're coming to visit. Enjoy the area and move on to your next site in the event of a hurricane. Uh, Just like a hotel. Any of that they would be mandatory evacuation. I'm sure the applicant can speak more to that, but they'll be they would be required to do that. And How is it your understanding that this 60 day Rules going going to be regulated. It's it. It will be. It's there their responsibility to enforce it. But If anyone is a casual observer goes down there and they see that RV with that license plate, and it's there longer than six weeks. We can enforce that through code enforcement to say that one's gotta go and that that's the intent. It is not meant to be. You know, that was my biggest concern in this entire project was how do we I don't want it to turn into Full time RV Park where people come and park there or The applicant decides to, you know, buy five or six RVS and park them there and let people come in and out. That's not the intent either. It is you drive in. You're there for the site for a week, two weeks three weeks, however long as long as it's not more than six weeks and you move on, so it's not meant to be a permanent residence. And that's that is my biggest concern about something morphing. Candidly. So for example, if the 60 days is bad and Day 61 they go. Stay somewhere else. 62 they can come back and stay for another 60 days. Correct. We don't have the I would say. Technically yes, you know, and again, if that's something if you know, I think by condition you might be able to get out. Um but I would say I'll defer to the city attorney, but I think yes. If they leave, you know and come back a few days later. You know they might be able to stay for another six weeks. That would be just like you would be able to for a short term rental if you re rented one OK, and, uh, historically speaking, have has there been overnight short term Stay with RVS down in that Sponge. Do Special area plan? Not legally. If they have their They're there because they someone's pulled an RV in and parked it somewhere and decided to camp overnight. I mean, that's but no, there's nothing this. This use is unique. To the area. OK, now I believe that, um Uh, Miss Vincent's answered some of the questions that were needed for now, and I'll have some additional questions for the applicant. Thank you, Commissioner D Delao. Nothing OK , Um, Mayor, I do have one follow up question for Renee. Um this is also not intended to be used as a vehicle storage or to store RVs out. Correct And you are entering your, uh, report into evidence for the board's consideration. Correct Yes, thank you, And all the attachments that are included in the agenda, Backup, OK? Thank you. OK, Um let me ask you one more quick. There. Oh, you have some questions. Just one question. Just a follow up. So If, um The owner violates The conditions. What are the consequences? It would be treated like a code enforcement action. And so there would be the same running fine until compliance was achieved and how many violations would constitute. Would give Give way to a reconsideration of The approval. That is not provided in your code. Um so there is no triggering event that requires reconsideration under the code. Um if You know, since this is a new use, and you wanted to provide something in terms of a condition, Um, you could reserve um The right to revisit this in five years and also to impose new conditions at that time. That is something that you could do if you feel that it would be beneficial to make sure that there were no code violations and that it has been compatible over whatever period of time you were to choose, um and then review it in this process again. Thank you. OK anyone else? Uh, last call on questions from the commission. OK uh, Does the applicant have any questions for Ms Vincent? OK? Ms Vincent, would you like to enter your staff report into the record? Yes, Thank you. OK, the applicant's turn. Good evening. My name's Edward Spath 515 Island Drive, and I've been sworn in I'm the owner of T to Marina and various other lots on the waterfront and around the Marina clubhouse. I've been in Tarpon Springs for a little over 22 years, at which time I decided to buy the old Virgil seafood market, at which time was an abandoned property and disrepair at the West End of the sponge docks. In 2002. I started the process of redeveloping what is now Phase one of Total Co marina and open up. For business in January of 2004 and continued over the next 20 years, investing my family's money as a small business owner in Tarpon Springs and the Sponge docks building one of only 2. Of all marinas in the US the size of Turtle Cove while working with city and staff with architectural appeal. Which brings me into my current development of building a boutique RV Motor coach resort for short term rentals on land I've owned for seven years. Over those seven years, I've been approached by over a dozen different restaurateurs, town home developers, hotel developers and nothing made sense to me, especially after trying to negotiate a reasonable sales price for the value of the land. A year ago, I traveled to Fort Lauderdale with my family in a motor coach and stayed at yacht Haven RV resort. And noticed that Turtle Cove and my adjacent land had very similar characteristics, which some of the photos that are in Stas package show and represent I just started, I decided to start the process of looking into building a first class, much smaller boutique RV Motor coach resort on my existing property that would also utilize my current amenities of the Turtle Cove clubhouse, which includes a pool laundry facility showers, restrooms and bar area which has been closed since Covid. This is going to be 16 short term transient parking pads with a maximum stay of no longer than six weeks, with the average stay for guest of 3 to 7 days. The majority of the RV ers follow a rule which is in their theory today, 333. Which means while on vacation, they want to travel from one destination to the next no further than a three hour drive. They wanna check in by three o'clock. And they plan on staying three days or less, or, you know, normally three days unless they happen to love the location and the surrounding area. I have no doubt in my mind that this will be a win win scenario for the sponge docks, the shops, the restaurants and the tour boats. We are talking about a $70 billion a year industry and 40 million RV ers in the US. The RV community is currently coming in their RVS to the sponge docks with nowhere to park and this development would give them many more of them and the vacationers a safe place to park and enjoy the history of Tarpon Springs while keeping them in our community for more than a few hours to take all in that Tarpon Springs has to offer And spending their discretionary money in the community. The trolley trolley can take my guest as far as Clearwater steps away from my sight, and they can also take the pineapples bike trail. You know for a ride as the majority of them travel with bicycles in closing I have chosen to continue to run an operate one of the largest businesses in Tarpon Springs and have been very fortunate to not only build what I said I was going to do. But also survive tough economies as us all have while raising a family of five. Now, at this point in my life, I'm And choked up. I'm sorry. So fortunate to have a young man who was four behind me. When I started this journey 22 years ago. Who happens to be my son, 25. It was taken over the marina. And it's carrying on my family business. I'll answer any questions you all have. Um M kardash. I have a procedural question. Um If there's questions for Mr Spade, um That's fine if there's questions for Mr Gove, who is his engineer of record, um We? We call him up separate or together. We should love the questions all together. If he if, um Mr Caval has testimony to offer at this time. Um then, then you can do that. If not, you can just, um, come up and answer any questions as they come. I believe there may be just based on some of what? I heard some questions for the engineer of record. OK, um I got Uh, Let me let me start out the um uh, like I did before the, uh uh, probably in reverse that The traffic circle. Um and also, um, there was I watched the PNZ meeting by the way, uh, for different reason other than your project, but I, but I just don't see your project. The, um Um Have you given any thought to limit the size of RVS for your park? Um no, I have not. I'd like to give some a evidence to y'all regarding so it kind of explains this whole turning radius situation, which I think we all have questions on. There's actually seven of them. Give them to them first. Yes. So to answer your, uh questions? Uh, Mayor As we all know, there are big rigs, which are tractor trailers, 18 wheelers. That travel the sponge docks on a daily basis. That go around the turnaround. A tractor trailer at 18 Wheeler is 72 ft. Long As you can see, on Page one here. They go by the sponge docks. Down the sponge docks around the turnaround down Roosevelt Boulevard daily. The second page here. Is a motor coach. These are the buses that come down and bring guest. Tourist to the sponge docks that go into all the shops and restaurants take the tour boat. You can see in the second page at the bottom. The overall length of those buses are 45 ft. And I know that we've made comments tonight about that. That turnaround can go 45 ft. So we know this is happening down there as well. Earth wheels. The third page. It's not really It's a non event at this point, Um, they basically range from 25 ft to 45 ft. With an average of these fifth wheels being 32 ft long, but they are being towed by a truck. In the bed. Be 1/5 wheel. The next page. Is a representation of a chassis of a motor coach. So we're talking about a 45 ft diesel pusher. There are two 95% of all the motor coaches out there today. The luxury motor coaches are built on two chassis. They're built on either a freight line or chassis, or they're built on a spartan chassis. What I am limiting that Resort to is nothing than 15 years or older. I don't want Things in there. That are older than that majority of the higher end places that are being built today. If you look in there What they call parking agreements. So that limits who can stay and who's got to go, I. I gave you a parking agreement to park on my property. These people that are traveling in these and the and the motor coaches. Anything above 40 ft. Generally in RV 40 ft. And under. Is basically a two axle vehicle. When you jump from 40 to 45, and you have the option when you purchase a 40 ft RV to put a tag axle on it, which is a third axle on the back. It improves the maneuverability as well as the ride of it because it's a heavier it's got more tire to the ground. Everything there the tag axle on all of these new motor coaches out there today. Have a independent axle that turns that axle the third, the third wheel in the back when you're going, it pivots. So when the front tires turn, it turns as well and it takes 17 degrees out of the turning radius. I'm just giving you this for knowledge and understanding that turning a Motor coach. A luxury motor coach around that turnaround is not an issue. You can literally the new coaches today you could turn it around in an intersection. The next picture I have here. Is and this by no Means is pointing out any of my fellow business owners on the sponge docks. But we all have a job to do down there, and we all have businesses and families to support the next picture. There is an 18 wheeler. Land of lakes or land of frost. Going right in front of my clubhouse down Roosevelt Boulevard. And it eventually ends up at hell. Los Bakery Hello. Bakery has 67 trucks a day. Pull into their property that are 18 wheelers that are big rigs and have no problem. Going in and out of there. And they use Roosevelt Boulevard and Dodos. The next picture. Is another 18 Wheeler that's going around the turnaround. Heading down to eventually rusty bellies. A transport seafood out very good company, Great family. They use it every day. Not only these people FNY Oil, Energy River, they deliver fuel to me and have for 20 years. With an 18 wheeler. The shell factory. Parks across the street from me. Once twice a month. And supplies all the shops on the sponge docks with shells and everything that they need to support and run a business. Lockhart Seafood. Great Bay Distributors and JJ Taylor all drive. Bigger trucks. Down there on a daily basis. The next picture. As an executive motor coach or a tour bus. That is part Right in front of my proposed development and theyre part there daily. These are buses that are coming down to the sponge docks, bringing a minimum of 56 guests that are going into the shops and restaurants. Are spending their money. In our city. The next picture shows it exactly in front of my property again. I'm gonna go through this pretty quick from this point. The next one shows a black Charter bus on the sponge docks, which stopped last Wednesday when I was coming to work Right in the road and dropped off 56 passengers. I stood there and watched it personally myself. More importantly, Where did that tour bus go? Because I've heard And I understand people's concerns about these vehicles driving down the side roads. It's parked across the street on cross Street right above. It right about from our marina. More importantly, If you go back, probably three more pages. You'll come to this diagram. Right here. And we'll show a yellow line. That charter bus. Went down the road. In front of Hellas. Made a left hand turn on Hope Street. Went up Hope Street. Made a right on cross street. And the picture. Before that, you'll see they park diagonal. Taking up all the city parking spaces. From nine o'clock in the morning till 215 in the afternoon. I'm not saying this. To cause a problem or do anything, but I'm just making it state and fact that this is going on down there right now. So the length of my motor coaches or my RVS should not be a concern. And when we wanna talk about the links The length is not an issue. Because there is much bigger vehicles coming down there. The last two pages in there. When the conversation came up about Um, you know, is this happening Is it going on? You'll see That's my parking lot from the clubhouse. There are two Guest or tourist that are parked in my parking lot, which they do every day down there right now, because my marina really is only busy on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. They're part I don't stop him. I don't say anything I haven't for years. They're still walking out of their RVS. And they're going down to the sponge docks, but they have nowhere to park. They see my big open parking lots and they pull in there. So it it is happening, I guess is my question. So I just wanted to, you know for evidence, so everybody understands. You know what is going on down there right now and the size of vehicles that can go down there and the roads that they are traveling because I do understand. That a lot of the smaller roads in Greektown down there are tight. They're small, but it's happening. On a daily basis. Um yeah, yeah, I appreciate all the information. Um There's certain standards that we have with regard to evidence, and I think the best that we can do is that these are observations. No. This is considered evidence. Competent. From an expert. Uh it's not competent, but, uh, it's it is Confident, substantial evidence. Um, with respect to, uh, the observations, but it's not It's not from an expert, but it's also not on a necessarily on a topic that requires expert testimony like engineering. What he has testified to is his observations, um, with respect to the actual turning radiuses, and that that's the type of evidence that requires, um expert testimony to be weighted credibly. OK? But um, that that's clarification. The, uh, the I'm not sure I understand completely. And the reason why is that we've got, uh, a report from our traffic engineer who suggests that, um, there is a conflict with a traffic circle. A certain size RVs. And you're indicating that there's not. I also understand. Well I'm not asking you questions. I'm making comments right now. So let me let me get back to the questions. Um so the question would be you're not willing to limit the length of our size of the RV that would frequent your park. Is that correct? I'm not saying I'm not willing to limit but the largest Vehicle if you had a 45 ft Motor coach and you were towing a vehicle. Or happened, some of them may tell a vehicle. Not everyone does. If you happen to tow that you're talking in the neighborhood of 56 ft. Approximately All I am stating and saying as there are vehicles way in excess of that. That are turning that turnaround right now. On a daily basis, so I I'm not even I'm I'm not saying that there are 72 ft that are going around the sponge docks right now, and I'm asking or requesting 80. But I'm certainly not saying that we're gonna go out and we're gonna measure via tape measure. Exactly. What the length of it is, but I'm I'm basically just trying to point out a fashion. That's it. That's it, So, I mean nothing else. Mayor May I ask a question? What is the, uh, Largest length of an RV that the current site plan you have could accommodate the largest RV out there right now. And that's just the charter bus is everything is 45 ft. And that and the and the site. The sites are longer than that. Some are 54 ft. In length, so it's they're long enough to park in there. So. Not everyone, not everyone is because not everyone has a 45 FT Motor coach . Not everybody has a 70 ft boat, so same situation, OK? Um you you, um M Vinson, uh, stated that you had gotten state approval for your, um RV Park. Yes, I did, sir. And um, are there any conditions on that approval? And you? You haven't provided that to the city? No I did not provide it to the city, because, um What I'm going through right now and was going through. So there's clarity on that, Um Was site plan approval. Um As before and anything you do you have site plan approval. Then it states and say, it says that you have to acquire a building permit. When you went through the building permit process. That would have been picked up along that I received an email stating that there was the intent that somebody made a phone call. That there was the intent of me trying to build a RV park. In Tarpon Springs. By the Florida Department of Health. I responded to her. I Three days later had a meeting. With The Florida Department of Health in Pinellas Park. And I actually have an approval that was dated March 7th, which I just received, which was after the PNZ meeting. That is approved from the Florida Department of Health that meets all of their administrative code requirements. For the sites the size of it. It's stamped and it's approved here. So yes, I do have it and this would be part of the building permit process, But it was not something that was part of this. Um I discuss with my engineer. He had never seen this and quite candidly. The Florida Department of Health When I got to three supervisors above and discuss this with them, they have not seen a new one be built. In 30 years. Nor have they seen a marina being built in 20 years around, so it it was kind of a situation where nobody did anything wrong here. It's just this is kind of the process that it went through and it would eventually got picked up, But this was not needed. To get a site plan approval. At this point, it would have been in order for me to build it. You're giving me the right to build that there, but in order to meet the state requirements when I do it If I didn't and it would not work, then no, they would not have let me build this and they wouldn't give me the permit for it, so it is permitted and it is ready to go. To answer your question. Yes, sir. And then I. I do have a question for Mr Gva. Good evening. HKO Vahi North side Engineering 300 South Belcher Road and I have been sworn in. Alright, um The subterranean drainage that you've got, Um I. I took a look at what you were submitted with the geotechnical report and also the I guess it It's kind of some specs from the manufacturer of the system that you're proposing on using. I. I know that there's uh, the specific type of, uh uh Have culvert. If you will, That you're proposing is for shallow water. I'm sorry. Uh, shallow depth, Uh, high water table situations. The, um The problem. I'm having in kind of trying to understand how this is supposed to work. Is that, um The water table at the time. That the, uh Uh, The samples were taken was, I think, 4 Ft and 3.7 or something like that. And the two locations one and one spot on one lot one on cross Street. But the season high water was, I think, 2 Ft and 2.2 ft. And the minimum Depth of the, um installation for the under. Ground vault is 40. Inches down to the base. Now is this just based on the minimum? Rock the minimum. You know the height of the, uh, the system that you're using, and also the minimum cover. Uh, below the below grade. I'm not sure in in in. Quite frankly, um It seems to me that given on a seasonal in a seasonal situation, that entire culvert is gonna be filled with water, so I'm not sure How You're gonna have I. I don't see the drainage there is, is what I'm getting at the capacity all it's not an issue of percolation . I just don't even see how you can catch a certain volume within a certain amount of time. Is that I mean, my missing something, or Well, um, the seasonal high when you're so close to the, uh to the bay to the Gulf seasonal seasonal highest influenced by what they call mean high high water. So there's a mean high water. That's like zero. And then there's a mean high high water that is generally 0.93 So 0.93 is based on this based on the tides. So you're not inland where You know, seasonal high is established based on the stains. In the In the soil. Um When you're right on the water it it is subject to the fluctuation of The Tides. So you're saying the lot across the street? Is subject to the tides across the street from Island Drive. Yes. Mhm. So Um, we have a geotechnical report. Done and did. Your technical report also established the percolation rate. We kept the we use the storm tech Storm Tech is basically half a pipe as you were describing with some gravel beneath that, so and when you're under the water, you don't have to accommodate what they call attenuation or a 25 year storm. You just worry about what they call water quality. And in this particular case, because, uh, it's in the off W. We have to maintain a three quarters of an inch of the volume on this property so you can never flood the ocean. You can flood the bay so we don't design for attenuation. We just designed for water quality. So whatever waterfalls on This property is captured through the Uh, boxes and lets catch basins and directed into the storm tech. Basically retained in there until it percolates. And then it has a Um A control structure where it allows the water to Um, leave the site as long as it's retained three quarters of an inch over the entire site. So If you are claiming that these areas are tidal And you combine that with a rainfall. Then. I would suspect that At a high tide. And a rainfall that we have, let's say a king tide. And the rainy day tide that we have at the sponge docks all the time. Then that entire area would be flooded. Is that correct? The site I'm talking about. Not not destroying the streets are gonna be flooded. But we're talking about the site now. The streets are well, you know, when the water comes up and a hurricane, I mean, the whole place is flooded so all the bets are off with salt water. With salt winner Yes. We are designing based on the state regulation based on this code requirements, and I've spoken with your engineer David. Uh, I'm sorry, Rick. Uh Aar. Several times, and we have worked the project as a matter of fact. He is very smart is really very good, I. I give him a lot of respect because originally when we had had the survey done Apparently there was an issue. With the benchmark and somehow he caught it, and, uh, we were able to correct it. We had sent a surveyor out there and corrected the grades. So um, we have worked all the drainage out with him and is totally happy. All right, I I'm not sure how to deal with this at this point, because I understand you're strictly doing it from a stormwater permitting perspective, but we're looking at it from more of a practical perspective. Um as far as the lot flooding and, um um and quite frankly, I would have not thought that at least a lot across the street was title. But if you're claiming that it's titled, That's you Know, and the other part, I was gonna ask you about this system. How are how are the inspection done to make sure it's still functioning? Um let me let me just if you don't mind. Let me just back up a little bit. Um because II, I neglected to state that we are raising the grades to from elevation. I think 44.5 television six. So we are lifting up. The property to elevation six. I just wanted to mention that to you. What's the elevation now? Uh, I think it's about 4.5. Uh, 424 or something like that. Yeah it's very low and right now it's very low. But um, so we're not building a grade. We have to keep everything above and we had to, actually Use the, um Um, the software that we have to make sure that it percolates into the ground, So you're raising the elevation of the entire property? Yes, and the road as well. But you're not gonna accumulate. You're just gonna T attenuate. We're not attenuating. We are providing water quality. Oh I'm sorry. Water quality, but where's the water? That would have been there with the additional height that you put. Where is that gonna go to adjacent properties And how is that going to be dealt with? It's designed appropriately where it doesn't impact the properties next door to us. We have been very mindful of that. And your engineers have made sure of that. OK Did you share that? Uh, additional height. Is that on the site plan ? Absolutely Yes, The additional Yes, Absolutely. It shows existing grades, but it shows proposed grades. Does it have the current grade on there as well? Yes, OK. All right. Um That's all the questions I have. Thank you. My pleasure. Um, let's go to, um The rest of the commission, Vice Mayor Eisner Thank you, Mayor. So I do appreciate you giving this and I do appreciate you having a business here for so many years. Um, my question to you is You would do you would agree that these, uh, tractor trailers all our professional tractor trailer drivers? All the buses are trained, Um, bus drivers and you know no, no disrespect, But you're comparing, um, all of the pedestrian traffic that we have on dans With People that have motorhomes. And do not have that. Knowledge that training That these professionals um possess. I know you must have My question is How do you make that comparison? I mean, I understand they make it down the street and I. I picked up on that expression. You know that that analogy that you've given But I can't compare a tractor trailer driver to some of the RV people. Um I've been alongside some of the RV people and they're not even staying in their lane. And I know it's a million dollar or a $500,000 RV. Um But I just so I I'd like you to give me some idea of how you could make that evaluation and expect me to, um, agree with that. I'm I'm not making an evaluation that Any RV that's coming down the sponge docks is going to be remotely close to the length of what A big rig or a tractor trailer or an 18 wheel or anything is I'm clearly was making a statement. That they are doing that. And yes, you're right. Uh, Do you have to have specific training to drive? An RV answer is no. You have to go to motor safety courses to drive a certain size boat. Yes, you do. I don't make those rules. Um The other reason for showing you the pictures was simply that There are Current RV ers and people that are coming down the sponge docks. Now Do they have six months training? Do they have six years or did they just buy it off a lot? I can't answer that. And I don't know. Nor could you answer that. So that's That's like anything in the world. I mean, you can get in a car today and you can have a 16 year old. Run a red light and hit you. That's that's That's the environment we live in. Um can I answer to this safety of the people driving down the sponge docks? No I don't think anybody can. So I understand where you're coming from with that, But II, I can't. Say that every RV coming down there is it is a skilled driver. No I don't. You know, we see accidents all the time Everywhere. So II, I can't answer that. But we're not. I'm I'm just Specifically just saying the size of the vehicle so and the and the vehicles that are coming down. There are that size right now, as far as RVS are concerned. Well, that is one of my safety ideas. I mean, uh, when I see a person who's working for a living, bringing a delivery versus someone who's going, um I don't want to call it a joyride. But it is it. It's a joy ride. Um so that that concerns me my other question for you. I know that you went to this other RV park and you've done. Um, Did you do any surveys on Nationwide RV parks what they accept size wise what they don't what the average is. Have you done anything like that? I've I've I've been traveling for almost two years researching. Looking at different properties. Looking at different setups. So the answer to your question is yes. I've looked at other properties what they take and what they do. Um There are different size pads. Some are pull through pads, which means you drive straight in and straight out. Some are back insights. Summer polling sites. Um so there are differences and all of that comes to the uniqueness. Of how the property is laid out. So There and there are different size RVS on the road today, and there are You know? Over Heinz or fifth wheel, so it it's a wide variety. It's like saying in my marina You know is, is every boat the same? No. You know you have a T top boat. You have a boat with a tower. You have a runabout. You have a skiff. You have all these different things. So the E ev every everyone is unique and different. So I don't like. Throwing gotcha questions, but that's fine. I. I have to ask the question. Do you know what the average size of RVS in national parks are? You can national parks. You cannot put anything. They they will not take a class a diesel pusher motor home today. And the and the and the state. Majority of them out there today. Right. Do you know what the size is? Is my question. Some of them range anywhere between 35 to 40 ft. OK, the average is 27. Um, I'm just I. I know. I. I just want you to understand the average is 27. I. I can assure you if you want to go to good, Sam's or you wanna look at multiple other things out there and at at at that point, there are other national parks. That you can go into that are O over 27 ft. They They are out there and you can go to them. So if that's what you're reading on Google or whatever you're looking up, that's fine. And I'm not here to argue the fact of that, But there are bigger. RVS going in a 20. A 27 ft, RV is not even a realistic animal that's being sold out there today. So I don't know how that could be accurate. But if you're reading it and that that's accurate. Well, it has to come as a question to understand later. I will give you the facts in a statement, but right now, I can only ask you questions. Um Most. Do you know what most Of the campgrounds have is their answer, not national parks. In their size. I What? What What? What is the average size of a boat in a marina today? I mean, Honestly, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm developed a site plan and the criteria so, I, I don't understand where Any other. RV Park no matter where it's on alt 1919. Trinity Wherever this is I, I don't understand the rationale for You know the questioning of That the size of what the average is in the nation, So I mean, we're not talking about I'm not. I'm not talking about DC. I mean, II. I have no idea. So let me give you my answer to your question. I don't know. I wanna answer your question. I'm asking these questions. Um because you're not. Building a RV park. You're taking an existing area. And trying to conform it to an RV park. So I'm giving you areas that were designed for RV Parks and R V's places and they're not near the sizes that you're trying to squeeze into an area. That's very tight. So that's my reason why I'm asking you these questions because if you were going up north into maybe Spring Hill, and you bought this huge lot And you put this this RV park on that lot. And you said, whatever size you want put in. You're making accommodations for it. The answer to his question. Thank you. I mean, I don't I understand you. I'm trying to. Yeah I'm trying to answer his question. This was it's not a design that you're designing. You're trying to fit the square peg in the round hole. Rather, that's not an accurate statement . No sir. It's not because the average road in an RV park is only the width of one lane. If you look at the inside layout A concrete pad that's going to Each individual pad is 40 ft wide. There is no RV Park up north here or within a 30 mile radius that has a 40 ft Wide street in front of the pad. So when you're pulling in You're going down a road. A two lane road and an RV park. That is not 40 ft wide. So you're having to turn off of that two lane road to pull into your parking space. So I have thought about this stuff. So again, it's it it. It's a design criteria, I guess. And yes, every RV park is gonna be different. Every marina is different. My the placement of my buildings. On my property. When I bill, it's different. So III I understand where you're coming from. But I'm not really concerned about what's going on in California. I'm not concerned about what's going on. In Fort Lauderdale. I'm I'm looking at. What I have one opportunity to make this right. If I build this And I make it to where it's inconvenient for my guest to come down here. I'm gonna get bad blogs. And they're not going to come and all the money that I spent to do. This was for nothing. So I appreciate You pointed out to me that you feel that that's not a maneuverable site. And it's not comparable to what's out there and, uh all I can say is I disagree and I. I believe it will work. I'll rescind all my other comments to later. Thank you Appreciate it. Any anything else? Any other questions for the engineer or anything? No Ok, Um, let me go to Commissioner C. He's got his light on, OK? Mr. Mr Spieth, would you consider yourself very knowledgeable in RVS? I would consider myself enough to be dangerous. Well, you you have. You claim you have two years of RV experience since Covid. It depends. It depends on what we're talking about here like I mean, do I do I know the average road now, so but no, I would be more than happy to answer your question but experienced in in driving. Are we talking? Experienced in what? I'm not. I'm not understanding. Just answer the questions sent to the Best of your ability and I will say thank you for other previous projects, but they will have no weight and bearing on this application, understand? Um and so you've You brought this book out showing Different types of trailers and commercial trucks and RVS and stuff and you brought that. And you? You stated that there's a lot of commercial vehicles they're delivering. But Is it correct to say that? They are contributing to the tourists. Restaurants and industry that Those commercial vehicles are coming down there for As far as what do you mean? They're dropping off food. They're dropping off souvenirs. They're they're They're They're intent, which has been going on for a while. Is still continue to go on in which They're operating. Uh to provide the tourist oriented commercial businesses, restaurants and industrial waterfront uses. Are we talking? The 18 wheelers? Are we talking about the tour buses? All of that The tour buses are Coming down here to go into the restaurants. The 18 wheelers are bringing products down for the restaurants. The 18 wheelers are bringing fuel to my marina. So it it. I think it all goes. Hand in hand. Yes. OK, and so Sir. What is a luxury boutique RV Park Because I've never heard of one before, and I After watching the PNZ meeting and hearing you and you've put it. What is that? What's a what's a luxury a luxury RV Park, a boutique would be no different than Everybody I've heard. As a property owner and a business owner here. For many, many years that the city wants a boutique hotel. Which is which is a smaller, like smaller scale hotels. So it it's it. It's a term I put in there. It's more of a smaller facility Boutique is like a smaller little property. I. I that that that's that's my version of where I get boutique from so that that that's that's where that came from RV Resort. Is the same situation you could have. You could have a marina. That's 100 slips. You can have a marina. That's 500 slip. So II. I think we're talking about size here. That's all. So in the in the last few years have you traveled to any of these luxury boutique RV parks? You can Confirm with I. I have not gone to I've I've gone to RV parks and resorts. Some smaller, some bigger, correct. Yes, I have. So what's gonna make your place a luxury boutique place as opposed to others. It. It's what I named it I. I don't understand. Uh, it's a part. We're talking about a facility to park. Multiple size RVs on the property it it's a word I OK, so there's no What you're saying. It's a word that you're describing it, but there's no really Face or understanding of I guess the noun in itself that you you're trying to describe it, you know? So You've you made a couple statements about There's 16 landing spots or parking pads. Correct correct. I mean, the these are luxury RVs. They're pretty big vehicles, are they not? Not everyone. No, No, They're not. Not. Not Everyone is so I don't. I don't know how many of them would come with a vehicle. How many would come with the vehicle from your experience from my ex if you if you look on the road today And everybody drives on the road. Some tow vehicles some don't I've I I've never towed a vehicle with ours when I've traveled So you travel you just travel in your RV. You don't have an extra vehicle with the major. The majority of the places that I have gone to Have been in tourist destination areas. I've either catched an uber I caught a rail system. Into DC. I've been A pigeon forge. I've been. I've been all over so Each place is independent and with things such as Instacart today, uh, for groceries, everything. I mean, not everybody, toes. Not everybody has a vehicle. So II I the percentage. I don't I don't have the percentage of what people travel with a with a vehicle and not with the vehicle . But not everybody travels with with a with a with a car, though behind. They just don't so you you have some people that are full time RV ers, so they they travel further. And you have some people that are destination people that decide I wanna go to Fort de Soto for the weekend. And they and they stay there. So yeah. Uh, all right, so you're not willing to give a percentage of vehicles that come with the RV. How can I give you a percentage when I No III? I don't know that I. I no, I how am I supposed to give you a percentage of the people? I'm sorry you're you You're presenting the criteria and the information. Uh, so when I wanted to ask you if you have 16 RVS correct Towing 16 vehicles. Where are all those vehicles gonna go? They can't fit on the pads. There's not enough space. Where are they gonna go? On the balance of the property that I have at Turtle Cove, which I own around the clubhouse. Not everyone is 45 ft. Long. According to what I've been told the RVS 27 ft Long is the average RV today. So if the average RV is 27 ft And I have a 40 ft pad, or 45, ft pad That leaves room for the RV and the car If they're towing that How are you gonna go about regulating this 60 day? Stay. In the contract just as a transient boater would come into the marina. What your issued when you go to these parks is a Permit or a parking Pass. Basically if you read in their contracts, so it states no different than you go into a hotel room. And you check in here. You have to be out by here. It's the same situation. Oh, OK, So when can they come back a day later. I I don't people are not gonna come to stay in Tarpon Springs. They're coming to Tarpon Springs. To look at the history to go. You're you're opening up an area. For more tourists to be able to come down here to be able to go to here. You have people right now that are staying outside of the area that come here. You. You. You're you're keeping them here, Which is what I've heard from many, many years. Trying to keep people inside the city. Versus leaving the city and spending money. Down in Dunedin or Clearwater Beach or whatever. They're here that they they stay 3 to 4 days and they move on to the next destination. That's what this property is. So you wouldn't have an issue at all with this commission, adding a conditional use of maybe seven days. If less a. Absolutely I have a problem with seven days you would have a problem with it. Yes absolutely. You're making it. You're not. You're not even making economically feasible. For me to operate a business. OK, but I just wanna make sure no I. I hear you've also stated before. People come to stay about 4 to 5 days and they part of this 333 rule. And is it correct to say that at the planning and zoning meeting are we allowed to ask a question from that to the attorney? Uh, it's part of the record of the application. Yes, OK. So you stated that people are gonna stay at the planning and zoning meeting about 2 to 5 days. Do you remember making that statement the average person would stay that time frame? OK And so you also stated that People aren't gonna wanna stay 30 days or so because the monthly cost of that would be anywhere from 3800 to $4200 a month. Correct. That's that's what the majority of these places do. Correct. So I'm just I'm getting these mixed reports on on what you're saying. You're your application is in which We're trying to work with you on your You know your 333 rule. But then You're trying to say people wanna stay longer. And you've given different testimony at that PNZ meeting. No, no, no, sir. I'm not giving different testimony. What What? What We're talking about here. I I'm giving you a What people in in in those areas if they are not coming to an area to stay. If you go on vacation. Are you gonna be told you gotta leave now? Because you're here for seven days. If you enjoy it, What if they have family that come down or they they enjoy the area. II, I I'm not. I'm not understanding Why I I'm I'm I'm saying stipulations on on in in the in the six weeks was only What we went through with the city so You stated on the record at the PNZ meeting. I don't even know why they're offering me 60 days. I don't need it. Do you not remember making that statement for your publication? They said to me six weeks. So are people gonna stay? I? I can't tell you that's like asking me. What's the What's the majority. What What's the average majority of the people gonna stay? I don't know how long they're gonna stay. But if I have that I cannot keep them there any more than six weeks. They will not be there any more than six weeks. I mean, that's would be in our contract. So that's that's what I'm saying. And again, you haven't thought about any Six weeks and a day and come back that hasn't come across your head at all or there's no. I have not processed the application. Not at all. No, I have not. I mean, absolutely not. Don't you think so? When you're asking about overnight stay in a special area plan and the sponge docks in which you're asking for something that hasn't been done before. Like to ask the city attorney a question if that's OK. Can I ask a question of the city attorney? Um, I know you have short term rentals for Or like, uh, Like an Airbnb. Um is Do you have the stipulation for like, six weeks. Stay. In the city's code. That is, uh, the six weeks is the um maximum. Or Airbnb for areas that allow not every area in the city allows short term rentals. But for the areas that do that do allow, that's what they're considered a six weeks. How would you regulate that? The six week Do you have? Do you have a Code basically. Or commitment that they can't stay beyond six weeks. It's handled through code enforcement action when there's if it's identified that that that's the issue. Yes, it would be handled through code enforcement action. Will it be safe to assume that this is In comparison. The same thing like an Airbnb and you can do the code enforcement, same exact situation. We have styled it as a short term rental. Yes. So I hope That sort of answers your question, and I know you're I know you're concerned. Um but I think Ed would be an extremely lucky person to have people that want to stay here all the time. You know, people generally take vacations. Excuse me, all of y'all. I think we're kind of getting into some issues that should be discussed at the TRC level rather than at the commission level. And um, II, I think these are things, um, short term. I think Ms Jenson explained it. There isn't anything in our code concerning RVS trailers, so she's making an analogy to short term rentals. And I think what we need to do is stay stick focused on on the questions from Commissioner Collard and either you agree with them, or you don't agree with him. That's all going to get weighed into it. It's just I just want to make a point of clarification it. There's really almost the same kind of situation, not an issue of clarification. Ms Vinson already testified to that You had an opportunity to ask her questions on that. You didn't do that. That's part of the process. So let's stop and let's get back on track with our process. OK Mr Speed back to the special area plants objective it's to provide To accommodation options such as hotels, motels, inns and other short term lodging within walking distance of the tourist destinations of the sponge docks, and that's inside the considerations on in this backup, correct Yes, I read it. Yes all right, and the next bullet, it says, although proposed project is not a traditional lodging facility this type uses provides necessary short term accommodations. Yes, so it's not traditional. And so But we want to get back to Is this conditional use? And. Can you tell me how I one of number four on the criteria? The use will not adversely impact historical or environmental resources. And yet The sponge docks has not been known as short term. Vehicle Stay. RV Park State. Is it not affecting the historical resources and perspective of that area? Is it? Has a historical as far as where down there. I mean, are we Is it the sponge docks themselves, Or is it down where this property is located at? Do you not consider your property in the sponge docks? It's at the Yes, the North end. Or, you know down there. Correct? Yes, I. I yes. And so, uh, With these other nearby properties. Don't you think they have They have similar abilities to look at yours and Potentially ask through conditional uses through a set precedent. As I heard tonight, everything is on an individual case basis. And we're talking about 16 parking spaces. So As staff stated, it's on an individual basis. So we're talking about what I'm here tonight to talk about, so I can't comment about other properties. And so again, Number two. For that criteria. The proposed use is appropriate to the property in question with incompatibility with the area. So How is the short term stay in The RVS that you're claiming compatible to the area. It's not compa. You're it. It's a short term. Just say, sir, it's a short term Stay. No. OK, I thought you said it was not compatible. And uh, we talk about future development in this Back. And this this project is not Nece, uh, necessitate significant site improvements. Therefore the site can easily be redeveloped in the future if necessary. Uh, are you aware of any redevelopment of RV parks here in Tarpon Springs? Not to my knowledge. No. In the last 10 years. Not to my knowledge, the last 22 years since you've been here. Not to my knowledge. No, thank you, sir. That commission. I got one more question. Are you not? Is your application your requesting for Something that has not been done historically. In that special area plan. And the Sponge docks Character district. Since I've been here. All of those districts have changed multiple times. So in the Special area district, which was not the special area district when I first came here, no So this is the first time I. I don't keep track of the different districts. That the city puts on different areas down there, just like there's a study right now. Going on about the sponge docks. II. I don't No, I. I don't. I don't follow that. All right, so Your knowledge on on There are several questions you I don't know if you skipped around or if you didn't but relating to vehicles that come with RVS you You didn't wanna answer that, or you really couldn't give a valid answer. Correct. I I'm not sure where you you What? What particular question. Would you like for me to answer regarding the size of vehicles? The are they towing the towing cars or not towing cars? I you're you're you're asking me Questions. That III. I don't know. Should I. I mean, I pull my phone out and find out how many the percentage is I. I don't know that. You You're asking me to answer a question that I can't So I will just say no, I don't know the answer to that question. So I. I don't know what you want me to. I don't know what What you what Answer? You're asking me to give you though, And you've also Admitted that you do not know of any other applications in what you are asking for that are similar to anything in the sponge docks in short term stay currently correct. I. I don't keep up with that. So I can't answer that question. So to your knowledge, you don't II. I don't I don't follow development of other properties in there. Thank you. So no, no further questions. Um, Commissioner Kiano. Good evening, Mr Spy. Hi John Heel. Good. How you doing? Good. All right. So let me ask you, um Let's let's discuss your business model. OK? So You were you were talking about, Um Um Having one of your conditions that they not be more than 15 years old. Right? Correct, OK? So does this work similar to like an Airbnb? Situation where you know who the these people are by. They either have to sign into some Format like a software . Uh, like a, uh, an app or something. Are the and then you know what vehicle they're used. They're driving so that that you can tell them. Hey, you're your vehicle is too old. You can't come to my park. Is, do you? Is there some mechanism like that? Correct It's everything with technology today, just as we've changed. With at the marina. So The majority of the way you go out and you book a reservation today in an RV park. Is you go online. You put all the criteria in as far as II. I can't comment because the vehicles that I've traveled are not that old So, but I would assume that you could put a parameter in there. If you did an online reservation that it would not allow you to book it, and it would say like a Is there like a standard format like like Airbnb, or like, uh, they're soft. They're software programs out today that that you you do correct? Yes. So there's Something you can associate with that get you like you see a picture of the people? You know who they are. You know who's showing up? Let me let me ask you, Um So A concern is the route Concerned that I would have would be the route they go right, especially if there are 45 ft. And they are Dre. Uh uh, Towing something, and it's 56 ft Long. You know, I can imagine an issue of them going down Athens Street. Right? So if they came down, PLOS Take a left on Athens and Athens gets very narrow, especially when you get Um You know, from like Cedar Street up to Up to the docks, you know, going by Um National Bakery and all that, you know, there's cars parked and It's very narrow. And then when they once they get to do to K, then they're gonna take a left and I understand that these newer ones turned better. But it still could be kind of a wide turn and could cause some kind of Traffic issue. Understand? So with that in mind Since you're gonna be communicating with these people in advance. You can give them the best route, right? Correct. So there there are people That They, don't they? Some of these people have never been to Tarpon Springs. Exactly And they're gonna be communicating with you. And you're gonna be saying, OK, Here's where you're coming. Here's the best route to take. So what? In your eye in your mind, what would be the most ideal? Route for them to come. That would be the least intrusive on The dock area. It it people are gonna be coming north or South. So it would be 19. To the old Live oak road, where they turn by the lows at the traffic light. Come straight down. To the traffic light at Dodane. And then straight down to dine. And then come around. Come around. Would you ask them to come around the roundabout or would you ask him It's going to be dependent on each individual's driver. How how they feel we will show them an aerial map on our website that you could go left or you could go right? But they could go halfway around. They could go straight down by rusty bellies down island Drive and from there, correct. So would that be the if you were driving If you were coming in, you have an RV. Which way would you feel most comfortable? I. I would feel comfortable going either way personally. And I and I, and I've and I've been in smaller, tighter areas, then what That is so I I'd feel comfortable doing personally, I feel comfortable doing either or So, um, how much do these vehicles cost? If you look at a, uh You know, a smaller motor home today. Out there, Um You're probably in the neighborhood. Uh, Today, starting out 300,000. To a half a million when you get into a diesel pusher. Um, luxury type. You're talking 500,000 to 2 million. You go under that. There's fifth wheels out there today that are $100,000 100 to 200,000. And then you have little pop up campers, which people Do go. Then they may pull a smaller tow behind type thing and plug in and stay there for a little bit. And you and your, um You charge. For the stay correct. Would you be at the higher end of the charges for stays? No Or on the at the KO A on in Palm Harbor? Um depending on each each of these sites are different. So if it's a pull through site back in site, when you look at their websites, they all have different prices based on how you wanna pull in where you wanna go and what's happening. But if you look at the at the rate that's over, say at the KO A or if you look at some that are On the Anclote River. Right Um, right now, their averaging 100 $90 a night. I'm looking to be around $200 a night. OK so no, I'm not. I'm not higher or or or way un, or at least expensive by no means Well, yeah, obviously, if you were staying on the Open. Golf you might have. I think the proximity no different than than my marina. The sponge dog has added value. It would warrant a higher price than staying on 19 somewhere correct, OK? And so the odds of somebody who's driving a vehicle that cost as much and sometimes more than a home. Right? Gaming the system to like, stay and then leave for a day and then come back. Is kind of highly unlikely, right? Well, well, I would like some guy driving a $500,000 vehicle isn't why is he playing those games and He's most likely to come to Tarpon Springs. Enjoy whatever stay he they would enjoy here. And then obviously go about their business. All all I can do is I I've I've tried to gain knowledge. Over the last two years. Because I tried to do something a little bit more with my family. So when I went to these places and talked to them and saw no different from when I decided to build a marina, which was my dream. I asked. Like what do you like What don't you like and a lot of people had stated That they like to be as close as they can to a tourist destination area. And They are coming and no, these are not the type of people that Uh, they're they're not here to camp out. Generally I would say they are Semi-retired or retired. They're business people. They're on their laptops. Their our whole world has changed to where they're doing business remotely now, so they could do that? Yes. So, um I wish you could take credit for that boutique. Uh, it's I don't It's all over the Internet with boutique and I and I understand the concept. It's a little higher end place. It's a nice day, and more amenities. Better amenities. You have the clubhouse. You have a pool. You have a lot of those places don't don't have a pool or a clubhouse. Correct. I get I get that whole thing so Um And so on one hand, we have the traffic right? So if people stay shorter, Then there's more traffic right? Because they're gonna be coming and going more often if they were if everybody came and stayed one day. You'd have 16 vehicles hitting the road. And that really, uh, 32 vehicles right? Because you'd have 16 leaving and 16 coming and you'd have a lot so if they stay a little bit longer, 789 10 2 weeks, three weeks, four weeks. It actually. Re alleviate some of that traffic issue because then they're gonna be sitting there and it's only one trip, so it minimizes trips, right? Yes OK, so guys, people say in one day Which may make Parties happy that they're not staying long, actually creates more traffic issues. Correct, CORRECT, OK? Uh, that's my that's my only questions for you right now. Is that it? Yeah, OK, Uh, Commissioner D, Donato. Um. Swallow a couple of times, IIII. I believe that the vote On the P and C was 5 to 2 correct. Seven. 070 OK, that's even better. And I understand I. I watched quite a bit of that meeting as well. They were. They didn't let too many issues go through without asking some questions and concerns. Um, what I'm hearing here is Some of it appears to be approaching to me. On us telling you how to run your business, and I would just simply say my understanding of this whole process is that we're trying to decide if this is a reasonable conditional use for his piece of property. And I think that's really quite frankly. The major portion of what we should be discussing. Um I've heard. Um, I'm hearing that. Maybe we don't think that that you you're you're use here is Great for the sponge docks. I remember 22 years ago. I think it was when you when I first met you. Yes I came before you and it was yeah, longer than that. And I remember and I was impressed with the fact That you came into my office. We sat down. We talked for probably 2030 minutes. And the one thing that was impressive to me. You to me were relatively young to be starting that that kind of business. But the why You had that. And you dotted pretty much every I crocked every T with me. And you went through a process then. Through P and Z and through the commission. You're building something that had never been built in the sponge docks, either. And Not only have you helped the boaters of Tarpon Springs have replaced it to die. Put their boats, but you've helped all the put out county. The county was actually happy to see you come and build facility. So you have a track record with us for multiple years. You've demonstrated that You. Take that seriously. I think that's important for this commission to consider. I think again. We We? We've built a lot of things through. I remember a town home project that was built in the sponge dock area, and it was discussed quite heavily. Um Because it it too, was said it didn't need to be. To be there. There are some things where where you are This. This just makes sense to me. Uh and I do. I do believe it is a relatively new trend in the country. According to people I know that that have RVS. I've been on many of them and I've taken many trips on RVS. Fortunately I learned a long time ago. That's better to know people that have those kinds of things than it is to, perhaps to have your own and I confess to that philosophy, and I know pretty much Every one of them that I know. Have these clubs that are national clubs. And when you when I I've asked them. Why Why are you doing this? Well I've worked hard on my life. I can afford it. I wanna go see the country. And that's exactly what they do. They travel for two or three days in a location. Hey, pull up and they take off and go to another location, and these clubs actually map everything out for them. And actually show where the restaurants are they? I mean, it's all laid out like I. I couldn't believe how well organized it is. And some of the questions you've been asked here tonight. II I understand the concern by the commissioners. But what I what I don't get is that they're asking you to predict your future. You're they're asking you to predict what the likelihood of things are. The fact is, you've you've you're asking for a conditional. Uh uh uh, approval. And the law is pretty much stated what your parameters are just as you did when you came in with the with the, uh, the boat slips. I think that's what we should be judging here. Not Not basing it on anything else. If you don't think that's the right location for it didn't vote that way. If you think he's he's demonstrated that he knows what he's done, what he's doing and running a business, then consider that too, because II I don't know the man personally other than our one meeting. That's the only time you and I talked. But I was impressed because of the way you presented yourself. And I'm impressed here again tonight because you, uh, you Pretty much do Diaz and teas of things that you have knowledge about. You haven't tried to predict what others are gonna do. The law here that we're supposed to decide. Pretty much decides what you can do. I think Coast is question to the to the grade was right on but that was that was mentioned. I think when, when, miss When you, uh, first discussed that It was going to be built up. Um If that's the case, then we can't build anything up down there because it's been that way for previous since I've been here. So, I. I just I just commend you for being here. I commend you for being a good business owner. And I believe that it just as then you saw the future. You You did what I did when I first started my business, I. I basically put pins in a map. To decide where my competition was. You did the same thing. If I remember a conversation for you knew that North County was gonna be the direction they were gonna go because they had to. They didn't have any place in in mid and South County. So I think you've done your homework on this II. I think the concept is gonna expand just as as the hotel motel things. Boutique hotels now are a big deal and a lot of resort areas and we have been wanting one for a lot of years and to me, This is a smaller scale. Um Because I see it. You meet the conditional use approval. And, uh, I commend you for your patience in in your business. Thank you. Is that it? Commissioner? OK? Um. Any further questions. All right, um M. Vincent Do you have any questions for Mrs Uh, no, I do not OK. Um Let's go to public comments now. Uh what I'm gonna do is ask I. I don't normally do this, but I'm gonna split it up. I'd like to have those that are for the project come forward and Make their comments and then those that are against will will do that later. He's come forward if you're for the project. Good evening board members. Anita Protus 901 Bayer Drive. I don't personally know this gentleman. Let me tell you something. He's given us something good in Tarpon Springs. He's kept it clean. He's kept it right. He is a developer in that project there. We should be proud of him . He's been a good citizen. He's just like the Stass. Eddie Hoffman wanted to put a boutique motel down on the Bayou. Remember that? You should remember that Mayor. And we've had others. We turned down a hotel. We want people to come here and stay and spend their money in tarpon. Not turn them away. And what we're doing is turning away businesses, people coming to spend money in our economy of Tarpon Springs. Pay money to come here. What's wrong with us? We can't shut tarpon down forever. And sometimes you have to take the best that you know that you can get because you're not here tomorrow and we don't know what's coming in the future. This gentleman has done his homework. He's been grilled like he was a up here tonight, and that's wrong. Some of the questions asked were ridiculous. It's embarrassing. This man knows what he's doing. He's putting his money and heart in the Tarpon Springs. He's one of our sons here who give us something good support this. And make something good for tarpon. Let's quit sending people on to Dunedin, Safety Harbor and Clearwater. You go to those communities and see what they've done to bring the RVS into their communities make the money. Yes, we've had a good tourist year this year, but it's not all the time. Let's show we have some good intelligence and give him this opportunity to put money into tarpon and make something good for us. My name is Troy Bone and I live at 957 Island Drive, and I'm in full favor of this man putting his park down there. I wanted two families that still live on that road. All the other. Everything else is commercial down there. There are trucks that come through there all the time. There are big rigs that come through there all the time. They even tow cars, sometimes. And I don't see any problem with that man putting this up. Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. II I apologize. Were you sworn in before? Yes, ma'am. All right. I'm sorry. That's all right. I just wanted to make sure we had it on the record. Thank you. Asked me Yeah. Good evening. My name is John Corliss and I live at 609 Hope Street. And I, uh back up. To the marina. I look out over the open space and then the marina. And then beyond that would be island drive, and this proposed RV Park and I walk the neighborhood all the time, and that is an eye sore down there. I would be embarrassed. To bring company down there. What is this ? It's a It's a It's a mess. There's vacant lots. It doesn't look good. And I see Big tractor trailer coming out of that island drive on the Roosevelt back and forth. They seem to be fine. I mean, these are giant trucks. And Um, I don't know the gentleman that owns the applicant. I do hear? Um Uh, leaf blowers every morning at 730. OK, that guy has that please tight. It It's it. He keeps it immaculate. I don't understand why he has an included the lot to the left. Where that existing parking is behind the Behind the clubhouse. Oh, that should be in my opinion. A dog park, a picnic area for the RV ers. Fenced in common area. Uh, because I never see that parking lot in front of the clubhouse full even on weekends. It's all and I look at over that property every day. And it's never full parking lot is empty. So I don't know if he wants to go back to the drawing board, but I'd include A dog park. Common, a little parking area. Uh because that parking lot in my view. Never gets used. Um I'm all for this. This is an unbelievable opportunity to bring in millionaires. People with lots of money. Suspended here. They're gonna spin it somewhere. Tarp and should be taking it and needs it. And I can't think of a better use. It's the highest and best use of that property, in my opinion, and I've been in real estate for 40 years. OK, residential some commercial That is the highest and best use for that property. Something else comes along like it's been stated. They can scrape it. Put the put something else there, but I honestly don't know what it would be in a million years. All I got to say, sir, can you indicate for the record that you've been sworn Yes, I have. Thank you. Or anybody else for the project. I don't think it's sure that's fine. Raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth and the whole truth between before the city of Tarpon Springs Board of Commissioners here this evening? Yes, I do. Thank you. My name is Don spa 491 Winthrop Drive. Spring Hill, Florida, Um As you guys heard before, obviously, Um, I'm down there. I'm running the operations of this place. I am down there five days a week. OK? I'm the one that's walking that facility on the one that's making sure stuff is right and the one making sure that stuff is obviously Appealing to everybody down there, OK? I'm also the one that has to walk over to that exact property every single day. Make sure that people who are parked on that side of the road or out of the way and not obstructing any other cars trying to come in and out of that road. Who are already going down to the sponge docks. OK and they're using our site and our facility, OK? To park on the easements and the sidewalks, obstructing people even walking on the sidewalks, OK? And they're also using our parking our parking lots. A park and go down there. On top of that stuff. OK, there are already RVS. Making their appearance down there already, So essentially, we're making on record. If this doesn't happen that RV ers are not welcome. They're already going down there and they're using our exact parking spots. You go down there. OK? And I get it, OK? I have nothing more than a great respect for the sponge docks and nothing more for the great people and stuff that operate their businesses and stuff down there. And I know a big question is how does this Fit in with the historic district and stuff. OK these people are gonna be coming down here to go and walk through those shops. Look at the sponges . Look at the sponge boats learn about the great history of what the sponge docks is. OK, so I guess that's kind of how it fits into that. But We're we're we're we're talking about people coming here. Who want to experience a place like this, and then we come back to the path or or come back to the fact of six weeks. Stay OK? I'm the one down there managing that stuff. OK I'm the one that's had to be looking at those reservations. I have to be the one that's gonna have to be looking towards that type of stuff, OK? And whether someone stays over six weeks and they go back and come for one day That's not going to be allowed, OK? And that's where he was talking about. And excuse. I just don't know your name. But where You have to sit there and you have to manage that property. You have to look at that. But that has nothing to do with of the conditional use of that property. That's how we operate our business. OK And I guess that comes on to the word of how we operate that business and how we do that stuff is to make sure people don't do that. But we're talking about a livelihood down there of a property that my family has had for seven years. And we're being told of what now cannot be put on to it, even though it falls into the conditional use of what is allowed there. I don't know what what? What else can be put down there. And how many times we have to come back and keep doing stuff to finally have something to put on a valuable piece of property that the end of the day everything gets turned away and whether what happens on any adjacent properties again. That's its own entity and its own thing that somebody else has got to deal with. But the it's fitting into what The community needs. The community needs people that want to come down here and want to stay and want to learn about the history of the sponge docks. And this is this is a portal to allow them to do that and to stay in this area, and it's just It breaks my heart to see someone who's worked so hard since I was four years old down there and has this property and is now being told that he can't put something on there because we wanna talk about it being a boutique and how it doesn't fit into those certain things when, at the end of the day, those are all just words and grabs no different than anything else that we have out there of how to make it. More millennial or or towards the generation of what everything is going towards. It's just a play on words. And it's just ridiculous that we can't look at the plans and what is actually set for that property and what is allowed in that property. When we're talking about stuff that just goes back on to managing the property of allowing those people of when they stay and whether they bring a car. I mean that that all just comes on to managing the business. So That so? Or anybody else that has, uh, comments for the project. OK Um, I'm gonna wait until the end for the remote access. Um To go both ways on that one. So let me get on those that have anything to say that are not supporting the, uh, conditional use application. You can come forward. Mayor, can we just extend the meeting? Just in case we don't Uh, just Anyone that doesn't support the conditional use. Uh, application. Please come forward. Mayor. Mayor and we extend the meeting since we're gonna be coming. Can we extend the meeting? Since we're gonna be coming close to it. Extending the meeting is at that time already close. We've got time. You think we can finish in 12 minutes? Um, thank you. Both, Um Yeah. Um, Just hang on, Uh, Craig. Um Motion to extend the meeting to 1130. Second Yeah. OK, Roll call. Right? Yes, I guess. Mr Cole is yes, Commissioner. Cool. Yes. Yes Vice. May Eisner? Yes. Vaio? Yes. Um, who's first? Is that it for you? Sorry. I Craig Lunt 743 Chesapeake drive. Ah, good evening. It's turning into a long one. Unfortunately, um So I know this is quasi judicial. Obviously um, and it should be fact oriented rather than an opinion. So what I'm gonna do today is give you some facts that probably haven't been investigated. Um as deeply as they could have been, or even mentioned, and you know me, that's that's kind of what I do. So As far as ingress and egress analysis. Everybody's been talking about the roundabout. That's not the only road That they're going down. Going down, Dodo. They're going through the roundabout down Island way. And if you believe the directions on some of this stuff, they're going up Island Way turning left on Roosevelt so they can again try to get north or East. Rather undo to kiss. Um So that's what they they've suggested The anticipated travel route for the guests accessing inside of Urby. Um 16 spaces, low traffic generation. That's all facts as stated, um So as I understand it, and maybe, uh, Major Ruggiero or Excuse me. Yeah. I'm not gonna get used to it. Um Can correct me on this, the generally accepted vehicle width. I'm not talking about length vehicles I'm talking about widths of vehicles is limited to, uh 8 ft on roads that are less than 12 FT wide. While Guess what. There's a lot of less than 12 Ft wide. Roads. I'm talking about lanes per road, so Um More specifically as it pertains to our V types. I section this is state code 3 20.01. Says a recreational vehicle type unit when traveling on a public roadway in this state must comply with the length. We've got all that sort of stuff talked about and with positions of section 3 16.515 now, 3 16 515 says The width limitation is gonna be 100 cannot exceed 100 and two inches. So 100 and two inches for those of you who can't do quick calculations. 8.5 ft that doesn't include Le Mire. The mirrors can stick out so they can see what's going on. But that's on a road. Just got two lanes. Go both ways. 12 ft wide. We don't have any of those in that area, and they're not plotted that way. Um some of them were a little wider than most. I physically went down and measured them down. Do K down Island way and they do not meet the specifications so We're either going to permit them or not permit them now. According to state code you're allowed to, and the way the code reads is I'm gonna say encouraged. To restrict access to certain vehicles based on woods exceeding 96 inches. Or 8 ft. If the roadway is less than 24 ft wide So rather than all this length stuff, and we get around the corner and stuff, they may not get down the road, especially not in tandem. I was there yesterday while I was measuring this stuff. One of these large tour buses came down. Um, I was right behind him. All the way down do to K. He was right on the center line with his wheels. Never mind his mirror If there was another one coming up, do Kis. There's no way they were passing each other, It just would not happen. Now Fortunately enough, he was able to go around the turnout, which actually kind of amazed me. But but that's just a fact. Um, So those are the facts on The wizard process. We have more. Information on that. Um if you take a look at the site plans that that was your time already. I know it goes quick. Can you all indicate, for the record that if she were sworn Pardon me. Um Somebody's giving you their time. OK, miss Joy, and I'm OK. Thank you. Um So let me talk fast. I guess I'm not used to pay for a minute. Just for everybody's knowledge on this part of the discussion for public comments. You get four minutes and then someone can give up an additional two minutes of their time, but they don't get they they relinquish their right to make any comment. So the point I'm getting at here is somebody needs to take a more detailed engineering. Look at the streets that they're actually going to be on and see if these vehicles are safe to be continually. Going down there, Um, with the site plan for Island drive there where they've actually stated that we're gonna get new asphalt and new concrete curbs and so forth. No mention of who's doing that, So I assume they are. But at one point, the actual road is restricted to 17.8 ft, which is well below 20 ft. I have no idea And this is by their little off road thing. I have no idea how a vehicle is gonna make it down there and have any other vehicle get up the road so This is my major point. With with that, Um, I have some confusion about Whether or not uh The parking situation because it's in the site plan, and it's part of the lot and it's one of the things being taught. But So it should be all the parking spots in that particular lot are included in this site plan and then Doesn't the tarpon or the Tarpon Turtles clubhouse have to have a certain amount of minimum parking. Oh how that needs to be resolved a little bit better than it has been. Sorry for rambling on here and just state For the record that you were sworn in for your testimony. I was sworn in. Thank you. So Public comments, please. For anyone that is against the application. Tina B of I. I am sworn in. Um so, uh, first I do understand this is quasi judicial and must aide you must abide by existing codes. But I'm going to start with the bottom line if you approve an RV Park, uh, which is essentially a campground right next to our most famous historic district, you would be partially destroying Greek towns, historical and cultural character, which is why people remain living in Greek town and People come to visit and if our municipal codes allow an RV park in a downtown and historic area with only minor conditions, then you need to seriously assess whether are codes are doing right by this city. I don't I'm not sure that they are so the proposed RV Park is across the street from the National Register listed Greektown Historic District and one block away from the Greek town residential area, beginning on Hope and cross Street. In fact, it's closer to the residential area than it is to the commercial area. Those are the people that's going to affect and we are struggling to maintain the district's historic character, which is what keeps residents and attract the tourists. So an RV park a budding, the district is inappropriate. Moreover the consultants the Stantec study and report for the Greek town Vision plan is in process and is expected this month. And there were many suggestions at public meetings for closing Dodecanese on a regular basis, as it is already closed frequently for events are because of flooding. And what's more does that study is going to be important because it's going to include this area and what would be appropriate for it for the future? Another problem, The app the APP application, the travel route. You know, it simply doesn't include the information that this is a narrow, congested street. I mean, so narrow as you heard that Craig Glunt just talk about and there are going to be problems with cars going both ways down that street. There's gonna be even more trouble when it's flooded and Roosevelt and Dodecanese as we all know, Flo. Frequently and increasingly the alternative of routes. If they need to get out, they're down the tiny little streets of Greektown, which may not be sufficient to accommodate these very large vehicles, and you might also want to investigate the financial and municipal services service consequences. Um when that floods because local RV parks like Sherwood and Kassie RV parks and Harbor have flooded badly and in recent years and that right next to the water, you know it's going to flood that area constantly Floods. I mean, and that pretty much already came out. So who? What's the what is gonna be the city's responsibility and financial responsibility for this park when that happens? Um Now I know that staff posited that it We need more accommodations for people and that this would allow short stay accommodations with minimal site improvements and could serve as a redevelopment site in the future, So it allows Possibly long term, low cost stays for a minimal number of people, which won't have that much benefit for the dogs. Also why are we planning for just now? The whole point of the Greek town vision plan is to plan for the future, not just what we can do right now, but what's going to make the most sense for the future? So I have to say the property owner seems to be a competent businessman, but I have to question the wisdom. Of the decision to buy land that's floods frequently and then and then expect the city to also accept development. Inappropriate bar right by a historic district. RV parks are not normally located in downtown areas and historic districts by historic districts. That's not right by historic preservation standards. And why should the Greek town residents who are nearby? Park a block away and the other blocks and those things will be going through the area. Why should we suffer suffer the consequences of a personal pursuit of greater wealth when there's minimal financial rewards for the city what we really need again. Or is a small hotel, SARS and SARS is dedicating donating the two minutes. Go ahead. We need to look out for the common good and not just You know one or two people's personal financial rewards. Thank you. OK? Good evening, Erin. Good night, actually. I'm Carl Wagon 498 South Highland Avenue here in Tarpon and I have been sworn in When I addressed the planning and zoning board, uh, at the their hearing on this, I introduced myself as being neutral, and I think I still remain that way. I think that, uh, as one gentleman said earlier, uh, it could be that a highest and best used for this property. Is an RV park as it may continue to be, as we continue to suffer the effects of global warming and rising ocean levels. I have a concept that says someday all the waterfront coastal high hazard area property in Florida will be zoned for RV parks so they can get the hell out of there when the storms come. Aside from that, I, uh My wife and I have been traveling in an RV for about three months every summer. Since about 2008. As I calculate it. We have, uh, we have spent 1000 nights at least. Uh, living in our motor home in various places around the country. We've got a whole lot of experience and that experience leads me to question a comment or a statement that was made in, uh, the letter from, uh North side Engineering. As was stated at the T. This is a quote as was stated in the TRC meeting. Most customers would not be bringing a vehicle to the site, only an RV That is not my experience, Having been 1000 nights in campgrounds with a bunch of other people. From my experience , I would say about 75% of the motor homes do have a second vehicle with them whether it was towed or it was driven independently. Those that don't have them are typically, uh Conversion vans or people camping in tents. They don't need a second vehicle because they Their vehicle is what they came in. Uh so I would, uh I would ask you to as a result. Uh deny the, uh, the warrant for the parking waiver. And uh, hopefully that would, uh, result in a little bit less intense use of the entire site. A great A great concern of mine, though, is the density of the RV sites in the two parcels. I'm gonna cut right to the chase here. I did some research. And yes, I'm the one that called the Department of Health. And I made sure that you Mr Wagon you do need to address Yes. Please address the commission. Thank you. I'm sorry. Um at any rate, Florida Department of Health regulates many aspects of our the park design, including the specification from Florida Administrative Code 64 E 15.002 entitled sites. Mobile home watching and recreational vehicle parks. A each recreational vehicle space shall Not me shall contain a minimum of 1200 square feet. As I reviewed the site plan of this place, Uh, the largest site being 54 be feet by 20 FT Wide, which includes both the paved area, 10 FT and the grass area next to it. That comes to, um 1080 square feet, so their biggest site doesn't meet minimum requirements. And it goes all the way down to a 32. Ft by 20 FT or 640 Square feet. It's like again. Totally Out of compliance. Uh, it's not your role to enforce the Florida Department of Health rules. That's their job, but I would appreciate it if you would put us an additional condition. If you decide to approve this, that additional condition being to receive a copy of the permit that Mr SP claims that he received A few days ago from the Florida Department of Health. And I'll end it there if you have any questions with me. I'd be happy to answer him. OK, any questions for So Thank you, Mr We for Very mean everybody. My name is Annette Alex, par 817 Gulf Road, Tarpon Springs. And I have been torn in Um I don't have anything written down, so it's just from my head from my heart. My family, and I'm repeating this probably before been here. Six generations. So Um, we've loved and protected this town for that many years and we will continue. Um there's a reason that there is no hotels down there is because our town has not even thought about even putting something down there. There's a residential and our businesses that have been there for generations. Also so We need to put hotels and everything on 19 with the 20 Um Car washes. But something on live vote. They can still cross the street. They can still spend their time at the dock and Again. Tarpon Springs is my town, but A day or two in tarpon. You're done. People wanna go to Clearwater Beach to go. They they wanna go elsewhere. Um we're a destination for a few days unless you have family. Uh, everybody wants to live here, but We're just a very few day. Um Vacation spot. Uh there's a reason. Another reason. Um That, uh, we just don't want any What about what we bring in there? The more noise? Um who's gonna be monitoring of people? It's like a campground or is very close to space. Somebody's gonna have their music too loud. Oh, I smell somebody's Uh, smoking pot ? Oh somebody's cussing in front of my little kids. So who's gonna? So what? We're gonna have the cops coming down there for Stuff like that, and It is just not a place for RV. And what they're gonna come six weeks and But move for a few days and then come back like we said, um, it's just not for tarping. Um protecting our town and our our residents and our businesses and If it's a problem of a trucks going back and forth and the smell and the diesel and the Um Direction of everybody Coming this way, having two we're gonna have two of them coming across. Uh, side by side. That won't happen. Um Down Hope Street down. Athens Street. We just don't need that in our town. That's all. Thank you. Thank you, Ms Park. There any other public comments? Uh, You wa 514 Ashland Avenue. I resent the fact that we have to state whether we're for or against the project. I just would like to point out some facts. Uh, Bruno Areola from DR MP on Monday, March 18th at 1:55 P.m. sent this information through and it's about the turning rate it as we look to the most common traffic movements for this roundabout, based on the location of the pro proposed RV site, which are whist bound to southbound Through movement from the Dean East Island Drive and northbound to eastbound results are as follows 30 FT. RVS can make all three movements 45 RV Foot RVS can make the westbound through movement in the northbound to eastbound movement , but we'll barely make the westbound to southbound movement . RV mook towing a boat to make the westbound through movement and the North bound East bound movement but cannot make the West bound to southbound movement. What's interesting is if there's something on dans going on like a Of all or an arts and Crafts festival for three days and is the applicant says most of his people will be coming in on the weekend. That means they're gonna have to come up Roosevelt and there's nothing in this study, saying what the navigation potential is northbound to westbound to get on the island drive, and that's your tightest turn. That's the tight turn coming all the way around. That's the same thing as the westbound the southbound just from the other angle. Now I wanna talk about specifics as the site plan. Now, if we I'd like to go back to the site plan here and re ref reference the turning movements Now, when you look at this, can we get the If possible. Can I get? Uh CS two or the diagram for the turning movements, but basically the way this project is designed as you're coming in to Dean, he's coming around our island looping around and then to exit. You're gonna come out and go out to Roosevelt now As an experienced camper. I've been camping since April of 2021 now. And The design of this park is not What is typically designed for RV parts if you go to an RV park or a state park, most of them have loops. So you loop around and you go past your site, and then you back in. This is not the transit thing. But if you look at this one, they show you backing in, but to get into the back one. If you're pulling in straight going in there, there's nowhere to make the loops to get to the back. Parcels and also on the lower side. The same thing for that upper parcel up in the corner and the two corner parcels there, so the site itself is deficient. Lastly I would like to go back to what the mayor was talking about the underground vaults and the water levels. What was mentioned earlier is as these sites are fully S. They're each site is individually electric water, And as you mentioned sewers now, the way these work these RVS and campers you've got anywhere from a five to a 15 ft plastic tube about this big around you hook up to your your, uh, drain part and then you run it to the Val or to the opening where the sewer is now. Most parks you gotta dump station so you don't have individual dumping, but this park wants 16. Dump sites. What's gonna be Concern of mine is one the sanitation aspect if they're not properly secured to when you know when they're being used, Because what happens these people come and they just leave it hooked up. If they're there a week, two weeks, three weeks, That stuff is just flowing through just like a regular drain pipe. You get some rain. You get some activity that discharges it. You possibly have some sewage discharge. The other thing aspect is when you have flooding, you're gonna flood those vaults. You're going to have water backing up. You've got electrical supplies in each of these locations. What potential electrocution risk you have when you get water backing up to where these sites are, because usually it's just Side of the ground where you plug in to a plug. There's a lot more going on than has been discussed . Can you state for the record that you were sworn, please? Yes, I was, dear. Thank you. Thank you. OK Is there any other public comments of anyone that's here? Hm? OK, Mr John. Are there any remote access comments? Answer this time. OK? Um M Jacobs. No emails, OK? Um Mister Spa. You have an opportunity to rebut anything that was said. Uh, there were quite a few things said, Um, All I can say is you know what I've told you is in good faith. Of trying to Do something right down there with a piece of property that I've found No. No ability to do anything else with at this point as well as if I were to bring a town home project or condominiums or whatever down there, Same situation with Traffic with flooding. You name it, Um, I'll leave it at that, Um Yes, I do have The assigned approved permit from Florida Department of Health. Showing that With the site plan that it does meet their criteria for the administrative code of each site meeting that So you guys are more than welcome to it. That will be given if things move through tonight. Uh when I submit for, um, basically The building permit, and I don't really think I have anything else that at this point Yeah. Um Is Vincent closing summation. I have nothing to add to the Nothing. No. Did you wanna say something? I do so before, um you close the public hearing and bring it to the board for discussion. Um I just want to remind the board of who was a witness and who is not a witness . Right So everybody sitting up here you you know, whatever comments you make, Um are your comments for discussion and deliberation and opinion, right? But the witnesses are the people who who test And were sworn and I will say that that includes my comments. So I do appreciate. Um you know that the questions you were trying to ask me, but I am not a witness. I give legal advice. OK and that is my role, so anything that I say should also not be considered as testimony. It should be considered as legal advice. I think what you're let me just add for clarification. I can't say in the discussion. Well you know, I. I agree with Commissioner Eisner because, he said, so And so and that's different than what the Is that correct? I'm sorry. I used you, but not necessarily allow you to agree with me, though. I always agree with you, But, um, is that what you cannot rely on the on what Somebody said who is not a witness. Correct It is. It is for deliberation and discussion and persuasion. All right, um Let me let me just let me start this off because I've been starting them off all night. Um I We're closed the public Uh, meeting OK, So now what we're gonna do is have a discussion among the commissioners. And then there will be a motion and a vote of, uh of some time and Um I, I I'm not against the project Per SE, I I'm not I. I think maybe there's room for an RV park and the way I see it, um Um The, um I If there's a need for it, it'll it'll continue. If there's not a need for it, you're not gonna have it open because it's simply not working for you. That's pre pretty much my philosophy on all the, uh, the businesses that we have in town. Um the problem I've always had is just the details that I've been asking tonight with regard to drainage. Um I. I see that we're increasing the actually, I went back and looked at it where I increasing the elevation about 3 ft. On the properties and that's something I. I did not catch I should have, and I would have certainly asked a little more, Uh, information from our staff concerning that also, um, regarding the, um um Um, I. I, uh, regarding the, um uh, drainage itself, I. I would have liked to have gotten some additional information just to comments from the, uh um from our drainage engineer with regard to what his view is and everything that was stated, Uh, this evening. The um I do have concerns about flooding. Uh, but But maybe the you know, maybe our drainage engineer could help us with this. The um um As far as the, um There is a little Inconsistency that I see with regard to, um The traffic in terms of, uh We do have damage to the Roundabout from just You know, it just happens. I'm not gonna tell you who's at fault. But it just happened so I would try and prevent that from happening. There's a whole lot of nuances that go along with with, uh, larger vehicles down to the, uh, down to sponge docks , and we've learned to live with them and even the neighborhoods have learned to live with them. Most of the routes that you see when they I. I live down there and I don't have an issue with them because I know the businesses need them is Ma main route for their large trucks is right down Spruce Street. Um it's actually angled at the correct way to go out Athens street out to, um, alternate 19. So these guys that come down there all the time they know they're wrong, and they they know when, what time of day they should go and everything else. It's not like anybody that comes here for a visit on a on an occasion, uh, to see that, um, I, I think and again, I'm not against the, um uh, the, uh, project per SE, but for me I. I do need some additional information along the lines that we discussed. I wouldn't I would like to see the, um engineers are engineers, staff drainage engineers comments on that, and I would also follow up with some additional questions concerning the height. Uh of, uh and it is a conditional use. That's the other part of it is that we need to be very careful. Once we say yes to your project. It's not easy to go back and say Well, um, you know we can't we made him ST. Um we could put that into the conditional use, but generally we don't do that to revisit that in a year or five years. We just wanna make sure we do a thorough job on it. Um I'm not for me tonight, so everybody knows I'm not prepared to deny the project out of hand. I'd like to have some additional information. Um and, um Um um On the other hand, if the majority of the commission doesn't want to support it tonight, um I. I do know that there's a reapplication process as well. So uh, but I guess the main point is, I'm not ready to approve the conditional use based on on just what I've heard this evening again. It's not an issue on the RV aspect of it. It's more of the details that that have to be considered, Uh, your your app. Your approval from the state would have been very helpful and extremely supportive of your application, by the way, but that's a little that's a AAA discussion for Different day. Um That's what I had to say. Uh, commission Vice Mayor Eisner. Thank you, Mayor. Um First of all, I'm not against the project as well. Um I just think that, uh, you know, as as everybody's aware, there's a quasi judicial hearing. As a quasi judicial hearing. Um, if you fit the criteria It's something that You're entitled to have Where my issue comes in is How big The units are that are coming down the streets. So um, earlier, I was only allowed to ask questions. And that's what I did, but I did. Whole, and now I want to give you some information. Um I pulled all the national parks in the United States. And 30. And these are all locations that are designed Four RVS. That's what they're made for. And Each one has its own. Stay close to the mic. Um we have and I don't want to give you the names. I have this if you want to see it, but it's 35 Ft. Max 30 Ft. Max 40 ft. 50 ft 24 28 25 40 45 25 50 30 24 23 25 35 35 46 27 2124 Um, one has no limit. Another one has no limit. Um then it has an average of 40 ft. But it ranged from 25 to 50. And Yosemite is 40 ft, So it it's a wide variety of Items, but none of these items sit at the end of this sponge docks. And that's my Drawback. So most of the parks that I pulled the information. It's 35 ft. Some allow 42. That was the synopsis of the average. The average National park. As I said earlier was 27 ft. All of them. And I mean all of them have an age of no more than 10 years. And they have something called the Airstream 10. Which because Airstreams are an older fashion, RV and you, you don't know by an as cream how old they are, but none of them allow anything in there longer than 10 years. Um and appearance is a very important thing. The other big drawback that I have on this is the time of stay. Um I did pull that information as well. And that of information, says most If not all, do a 14 days, which is two weeks with a three day leave. Um I'm in favor of that as well. I'm a little bit flexible if the board decides to extend that a little bit or even shorten it. A again I'm not I. I I'm OK with an RV park where it is. I just think it has to fit. The other thing I would like to do is, um I may wanna defer this or table it whichever way we decide because of some of the comments about if the sponge docks are closed, and a lot of times they're closed for two days. Um and you might have a two day with flooding. How else do you bring the RVs in? But through you know, routes that are are the roads of 17 Ft. 18 ft, And we need 24 ft. We run into the same exact problem over at uh, this the, uh, Craig Park with Track with trailers that bring their boats there so These are some of the things that, um I also want one more thing I wanted to mention We've been talking back and forth about boutiques, Boutique RVS and all that stuff. I looked it up. There is A lot of things that are claiming boutique RVS. But there's no definition of what it is. I mean, you could claim yours as a boutique RV because you have a pool. Some people claim it's a boutique RV because they charge more. There's no real, um, you know, definition of boutique. Um I know that came from the boutique hotel. But what we asked for with the Booi hotel was 50 rooms, and we got all kinds of things that were different than 50. Um I know there was also a comment about, um, our air air BN BS, but we have a minimum of six weeks for an Airbnb. So it's opposite. To what we're what the request is for a RV and an RV. Your your your maximum Was 6. Ft, Uh, six weeks. Sorry. And for our air BN BS. It was a minimum of 6 ft six weeks, So I just want you to know that there was a big difference. There was a lot of things said here, so I'm trying to compile some of the things. Um I would really be concerned about and I know those streets. Uh, during the shows when we do have the decks closed. Um People are parked all over and I know they're parked all over your property as well. It boggles my mind to think how a large RV is gonna come down that street and get into the location. I know that our police will be constantly called to be towing people away. So again. I'm not against the RV. I'm not against what you wanna do with your property. Um But I think there has to be some sort of conditions, uh, that are different than the, um quasi judicial part of it. The quasi judicial part of it. I didn't really see any criteria. That would, uh, deter me from voting for an RV. So that's where I'm at Miss Jacobs. We need to extend the time we have a motion to extend the time in a second motion to extend the meeting to 1230. Second, uh, roll call, please. No. Gotta turn your mic on. This. Yes. Yes, I Mayor Eisner. Yes. Ave is Yes. OK Um, Commissioner Cuoco. So when I first heard about this, uh RV Park. You know, I. I actually was My friend. Craig, who brought it to my attention, Um You know I had I had I went back and forth. I had mixed feelings, and I still have mixed feelings. Um One is I It's A decent a good use of the property right? It. It's not, um It's adjacent to your marina. It fits. Um You know people are Bringing their boats They're coming there. Um they're hauling their boats sometimes to come to your marina. Um There, you know those and they have oftentimes large trucks. They're pulling large boats, so they're very long and I think like, um The former vice mayor said that it's maybe not an issue of length as it could be an issue of width, but Um And then the other thing is that I Got its Sounded attractive is that It gets us the hotel effect. Without Um Without a structure, right? So we get the effect of having a small boutique hotel. People coming staying. Eating in the restaurants going Shopping. Um And using tarpon as a place to, um As a home port to go out and visit the, uh, the Tampa area. So I. I think it's From that regard, you know every The Many of the merchants during the whole hotel. Um Discussion. You know, this gives them at least more people staying there. And doing that, and I think that You know, uh And you It like the, uh, Commissioner de Donato said. It does matter that it's you. If it wasn't you I wouldn't even be on the fence on this. But the fact that it's you And that you have added a lot to the commerce of that area. Uh, all the people that have their votes at your marina. I'm sure have helped. You know the restaurants and the and the commerce of the of the, um Of the, uh uh, sponge dock area, and for that you should be commended. And, uh, I. I do that. At this point, I, I do commend you. Um You know the vehicle size? Like Uh, vice Mayor, Eisner said, um They're not professional drivers. You know, we do have professional drivers that come down with the commercial vehicles and You know the RV people with again with A 45 ft. Um RV and you know 56 ft with the Holland And I mean, it could be me. I could go get me one of those and be driving it tomorrow and I have no clue what I'm doing. So Um And then you know the routes. Um Going? You know again. I You know, I'm I'm I'm You can't get away from who you are and your own perspective. I'm thinking of. I'm living there. And they're coming down to Athens. It concerns me. But Vehicles. Come down Athens, They're coming down. Big trucks are coming now. Now, if we Prove this. Are we just exacerbating a problem that already exists? So that may be The case. Um But here's the thing that that bugs me the most. Is we bought? The city bought a 1.8 acre parcel. And one of the things that was discussed. With the use of that parcel was parking. And we could put 100 plus parking spots. On Roosevelt. And now I wanna ask the city attorney Can we regulate what vehicles go to that parking spot to that parking lot? If it's open to the public, it's open to the public. Yeah, So if somebody has an RV If it's illegal and drive on a vehicle haul in a car. They could go to that parking lot, right? Correct. And we could have 100 spots there. And easily there could be 1012 of those vehicles there. Because all those vehicles that he showed us in this in this report Are going down to the docks right and they could go to that parking lot. So we are by. We have bought property with the intent with one of the intentions. I heard that during all the conversation that it would be a parking lot. And if it is a parking lot They're gonna be coming down there anyways, where they're staying at his place or going just to park there and hang out. And so we've already have that set. I think. Um It concerns that former vice mayor Lunt said. Uh, with The width. On Um What's the name of the, uh the, uh It's the name of the road. Um The road that it's gonna be on What is what island right. So that's concerning. Now, whether that's gonna get widened by as part of this project, I don't know. OK? And What Tina BUCA, Alice said. It. Resonates with me as well. We are doing a Greek town. Plan study that we haven't yet worked through. Um That could end up Either. Making this park Feasible or not feasible. The mayor brought up some points that need research. Um And then the vice mayor brought up the fit criteria. As an important thing, and I don't think we have enough information to recognize right now. Whether it fits or not. So I would Like to I would like to table this. That's where I'm heading. I'm heading toward approval on a tabling this Working through The technical issues that you discussed. The Issues. That the former vice mayor brought up And it may need to be tabled till the strategy and plan has been completed. And then we see if this fits in To the whole. Idea of what we want to do down there. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. So thank you. OK, let me get commission. I just wanna make a clarification and let us go ahead, Clarify. So I need to make a clarification of what? Uh the commissioner just spoke about, um you can't compare a RVP, Uh, park where you plug in to where they can park for the day, even though I know that's what you said. As far as we bought something where an RV can pull in, but they're there for the day and they're gone, and that's It's like a car. Um it's not plugged in. It's not, uh into electricity. It's not plugged into the sewer system. It's just there for the day. That's Can I comment? Answer that. So? My name? No. I cannot comment since he mentioned Mayor Can I come? And since you mentioned my name? Go ahead. You two are having fun over there. No and vice mayor. What I was referring to is The size of vehicles going down there. I wasn't talking about how long they stay or what amenities are using. I'm just saying we couldn't stop big vehicles from going down and we'd actually be encouraging them. If that's where the parking lot is. They're all gonna be going down there to park and they're all going to be going down around the roundabout and going into that space, and that's what I was talking about. Thank you. Yeah. Commissioner C Let commissioner Di Donato speak if he if he would like to say something first. I think I've said my piece, I. I, uh Wouldn't be against a wing it II. I do, however, feel that, uh, it meets the conditional use. We're gonna get some help from his kardash when we get to that point. Go ahead, Commissioner Kar I'm not one of those people who are gonna sit there and tell you I haven't made my decision yet, Or this needs to be. There's more information that needs to be gathered. I'm going off what you presented here tonight. I don't care about your prior work. And that seems to be the problem. That's one of the reasons why I ran for office. Too many people's past work and, you know, they're who they knew in town, and you know all that stuff ended. That's why there's no more recusals. That's not that's why we look at each situation. As independent as possible, so it's not who you know or what you've done. It's the application you present and how it affects the community. And the way I look at it, sir, I asked you several different questions. So many different ways. Um Really addressing your planning and zoning speech as well as up here and you fumble big time. A lot of the words that you said a lot of the statements you said you just Didn't match up. And so We're talking about. Big changes in this community. And Additional uses are conditional uses. I don't care if they're 30 years ago or today. And you start setting precedents in areas. Well, Guess what? We're gonna allow you to have Um Conditional use for your overnight stay. So then how are we gonna say no to mosquitoes and that property down there? How are we gonna say no to Mssas and that property? How are we gonna say no to the Vaks or the Belarus or the hos? When they got parking all in that same area. Just to appease you and change the actual characteristics and romance of the sponge docks. I will not sell out. And I don't care if some people wanna sit up here and tiptoe around and they wanna say Oh, well, I'm ready to come back and review this. I don't care about the traffic and the turns. It doesn't fit what you're trying to put in there. You're trying to put overnight stay And A person's personal vehicle, RV. It's not an overnight stay in a structure that you don't own as a hotel, a motel an air BNB. And so throwing in that word or that semantics of short term stay doesn't match or fit that application. And. Number two for the criteria. I just want to go over this again. So uh, people understand the proposed use is appropriate to the property in question and compatible with the area. So the short term stay and you even said it, sir. It was the first time that was being presented not only to the area but to the sponge docks. And, uh, I'm disappointed in the PNZ board. I'm not gonna lie there. There. There are a few people who are Lifelong tarpon kites. They claim to have the romance for town and you know, but they contradict themselves so many times on different applications that is concerning It really is. And there's some people who have been haven't been in town enough where they really don't know the history. And so for those who have been in town a long long enough and you're on these boards, and you have the ability to sway a vote and make decisions and push boards in certain directions. I should suggest you do so. But That PNZ board. They're not in connection with us. And all they had to go do is look back at the hotel and other, uh Properties to get an idea of how this board thinks. And so We're up here to weigh and balance. That's what we were elected to do. So we can talk about how the conditions and the, uh, uses are Acceptable or not, but but those are words and opinions, and we were elected to weigh and make those decisions and back them up, which we fully do. And so, as I stated, I hope there wasn't any pressure. We We had two commissioners bring up. Oh you're way your experience brings weight. We had some other people in the planning and zoning board mentioned that That's not right to me. And I will never Make decisions on that. Special area plan. There's one word. That strikes me. And it's not area and it's not planned. It's special. And there's nothing about that application that you're presenting to us. That makes it special enough to allow the conditional uses. You're requesting for To allow that project. And then what? We're gonna have future boards hands. T bound behind their hands when other attorneys and applicants come through on properties in the SD, Uh, B area and the T five C. And other parts of the Special area plan. Come through with their big wig attorneys and say, Hey, you set the precedent over there. We want the parking lots filled up. So next thing you know, you look down to the 1015 years from now. And you see RV parks. Covered. You won't even be able to see the water. And for what? Because we're selling out who we are as a history as a culture as a community. That's why I'm so thankful. I'm on this board right now. And I can see how people are gonna vote. And we could hold them accountable to it. Because that's culture killers. That's community. You know, uh That history in that place is gonna far exceed all of us. And I'll tell you what, I'm not gonna allow any application. Especially the way that was presented. To come back and for me to look at it. You're gonna have to bring a lot of different, um Facts. And evidence to the case. Be more prepared, sir. As knowledgeable you claimed you were as an RV expert. You didn't answer too many questions as an expert And so. And another thing that that was not the first marina that's built in the sponge docks. If you look right across the street , as one commissioner stated, you have Captain Jack's You have, um Belle Harbor is a little bit more down, but you have other marinas in the sponge docks. It's not the first one. And so the vision plan. We're gonna wait for this vision plan. I'm in no rush. Some of these people wanna Make some decisions and go against it and You know? Make some very important decisions that are gonna mess up this town for 10 to 15 years. That's all it takes. The domino effect, but You probably don't care. Maybe some of these people don't care. They don't really have any ties back to the historical town of perspective or love for the town. I don't know, but I didn't sign up for that. I hope some of you guys we can get on board with this. I'm not interested to hear. As the evidence was presented to us tonight. To go back and table it. This means the end and you need to wait. And when you're ready to present something to us, that makes sense. Then that's OK. But As far as what you're presenting. First time ever. And we're gonna approve that. I'm not set that precedent and so Just wanna make sure I have anything else I wanna say because I wanna be very clear. OK? Um Commissioner D Donato. You had your comment. OK Uh, Commissioner Kano, Your light is on. Uh, Say one thing. This board. And Many of the passports. Have made Conditions. Of transferability. Of projects. And We have put store in who is building the project. And who was managing the project. And we have put Um, conditions that it's not transferable to another owner. We've done that. On multiple occasions. No, I haven't so Um You know, one of the Concerns that I had and I voiced it. Uh uh, I asked Ms Kardash today and I and I apologize for not giving her more time to properly research. It. Was was two fold. Um, one is That And this is something we have to think about for even future projects where we have Um Faith in an owner. Faith in the project. That's As Has brought forward. But we don't want it to be transferable. And in this case, one the ques. The reason I asked the question about that there were multiple entities, corporate entities that were on this property. If you say that Um You know, let's say Mike Eisner is gonna To build a We're giving him conditional use to do some to do some project and we have faith in him. He's come before us. We he's we feel he's capable of managing that project . Well but we don't want him to sell that to somebody else because we don't know who that other person is going to be whether they have the same, uh, because, remember, we did that with member the DA The Lady with the dogs, remember, it was like it was contingent that it only be her because we knew she was properly trained. We selling that dog Uh, business. Somebody else who didn't have her credentials. So the it wasn't transferable. So we've done that before. So One of the concerns I have is that if you approve something, it's in a corporation and they sell the stock of the corporation, so the owner is still the corporation. Then. That would get around something like that, right? So if you have multiple corporate owners, we have to be concerned. So I know I know in corporate, uh In in, uh, business practice. You. You can have conditions where you say if 51% of the of the interest in the stock changes that's considered a change of ownership that would trigger That event. Um The other thing is that when we talked about conditions About? Yeah, I mean, Again. And I don't I and Not to make any comments on Um, the other commissioners. Uh, Eyebrow . Uh, approach to everything. Um, The Uh, You know? Things that we wanted, and sometimes we wanna test drive up. Things and in this case Um We know there's big vehicles going down there. There's um You know, again a parking lot That could have big vehicles going down. We're gonna have a hard time managing that we have this thing We don't know if it's gonna be intrusive or problematic or not problematic and So we having a condition, But what concerns me is the ability to pull that condition right? Like if, if and in this case It concerns me that If we had to, say five years well, five years of a of a problem is too long to Handle the problem. So Um I think again the reason that I would consider tabling is I Am not against the concept of The park. I think that it has merit. I think we have too many. Pieces here. That Either need to be researched illegally. Researched on That basis and I would definitely want to wait for the report to come back, and so we have a concept of what we're doing down there. Um And I'm going to live there. OK sorry. No I'm gonna live there. This isn't this isn't theoretical. This isn't theoretical. My father was born there. My Family has always been down there. We've had businesses down there so to make any comments that somehow I don't care. You can. You can take those you know with you wherever you go, but The I We have a Duty to hear Testimony make a decision. I do not feel like I. I got enough information tonight to Approve this. I would take, I would table it. See if we can get Some things answered. If they do, If not again, we're gonna know more. This is quasi judicial. So I'm gonna ask Ms Kardash what Our options are in that regard, OK? Um unless we're done with comments commission, OK, Ms Kardash, please. Um so you can Prove it with the conditions with conditions that you have crafted. You can, um Reasons for the denial that it doesn't meet. You know the criteria that you, uh have in your code or you can, um, table it for the requested information . It is not a deferral because a deferral is the entire hearing going forward. This would be tabling your decision. Um so you're not providing, uh, a decision on whether it meets or does not meet the So when we when we bring it back, um do we start the whole process all over again with Ms Vinson and the applicant and so forth on new information or Um, right. And you would want to, uh, make sure that it references this particular hearing, OK? I mean, I think that's the fair way to do it rather than just Getting the information and going from there, so OK. All right, um Does anybody have any comments concerning the approach that Ms Kardash has laid out? I don't think Mayor. I don't think anything needs to be tabled. I think there is enough evidence here to deny the project. If you guys keep talking about evidence that needs to be brought up or edu What is it? What other evidence That needs to be presented that you can't make your decision yet? Because Has there been a lot of different variables that have been discussed. I don't think this should move forward and I don't want to waste their time right now. And then we're gonna come back here. Do this all over again. And short term stay in the sponge docks. Is a situation. And so If you guys want to talk about now what needs to be addressed in the future? Bring it up, But you can't just say these vague statements. There's a lot more evidence we need when there's not they presented their stuff. I don't think there's enough there. It needs to be turned down and we can move forward. I do think one thing that, uh, needs to happen is that there needs to be some reconciliation with, um Uh, Is Vincent and also the applicant as far as exactly the six weeks what that means again. It's an analogy to something that we have. We don't have an animal in a special area plan called called It RV or a Smart Plan, So we just need clarification. So for everybody in including commission, they know what that means. And and, uh it it in six weeks if the short term rental was one month, it would be one month. That's what we'd be talking about tonight, but it just happened to be six weeks. So, um I. I understand what you're saying. Commissioner Kass. Um ok. Um Like to make a I'd like to make a motion to table. You You shut your light off. I did. I'd like to make a motion to table. Is there a second to that? OK? Is there any discussion? Further discussion again? I think you guys are just leading on, uh, a hope of a situation. That's uh you guys don't even have a grasp of it. Neither does our vision plan and you're just putting in the situation, the character of our charm and the and the and the city and the peoples that have elected us to Make the right decisions or not. Really changing. Quality of life in our town. And so you guys want table this for another day when I don't think he even needs to be done at this point, So thank you, Uh, City management, Of course. Go ahead. Just two things I wanna say and have the attorney help me on it. One thing is We need to determine what the table is the time to be determined. Um is it next meeting? Is it what it is? And then the second thing we need to know what we are What directed on what we are bringing back what we are looking at. We'd have to have all that information of what we need to do on the table. And that may have a factor on when we're gonna table it to, But we've heard table until the Greek town plan is done. We've heard tape, so we just need those two things clarified of the time frame. And what we need to be working on to bring back either with our consultant with our storm water with our with our, uh, application. So A good point. So one thing I do want to say is that legally the, uh the Greek town plan has no effect on this application. Correct So that's something that you all should understand You said it does have it does not. It does not have an effect on this application. Um the it It is not a regulation. It's not. It's not a regulation. It's not. It's not going to be an adopted regulation. Um Or or anything like that. So that's something that you should understand, so I would not recommend tabling it based on when you're going to get the Greek Town vision plan back. So you're looking for something specific? As far as a time frame for, um and what you need to bring you from a staff aspect to answer the questions that is causing the item to be tabled. Why don't we do this? Um Rather than continuing to deliberate this tonight Unless Ms Gas says, you've got to do it. How about if we, each commissioner writes down what they're concerns are and sends those to you. You have no you need to put it in the motion, so it's clear to the applicant so it's clear to the public. You need to state what the expectations are. Well. Um So that would go to the maker of the motion. Right We've got a motion in a second, but we should Commissioner Colas made the motion or coos sorry. Yeah, She made the motion. He's the troublemaker, um, made made the motion to table. Um My understanding based on the conversation is that you want information back. Um, from legal on. Uh the transfer of potential transferability condition. Correct. Um that you wanted information on our more information or clarity on the, um, engineering on the Storm water retention. A better I'd like a better Uh, street traffic study. So we know Uh, Along the lines of the items that Former Vice mayor Lunt Presented Um. And yeah, and the and the length of stay. And the length of stay. Is that a legal opinion that you're looking for the length of stay? Clar clarification and A reduction of length this day. OK, The other thing is the, um The approval from the state that that I raised it as a dimensional inconsistencies between the Florida administrative Code and our code , But the applicant has an approval from the state. I don't know that we can ask a for per SE, but I think it would be very helpful in support of his application. If we were able to at least Ms Vinson to review it if he if he chooses to submit that it is not currently something that is required as part of the application packet. And then you need a time. Yes So I need a date. Uh, the date and the time. Um your next three meetings are Tuesday. April 2nd. How long? How long? How can I go? Just of clarification. When you're talking about something, and right now it's vague. I need more clarification. What a traffic study is you're talking about engaged in somebody, and that's not an overnight or a two week process, Depending what this traffic study you want. So when we table it, we table it just to table it at some meeting . We have to unable it unless we give a specific in order to table this as a you have to do it to a date and time certain, and it can't be more than two months. From the date of adverts. You can't defer for more than two months without read, Aver Tsing. It is a conditional use or or re noticing so In two months. Hang on. Give us um I would also take Should we take just a five minute break and let you and city manager? Of course, put your heads together and Ms Kardash as well. I don't have an issue. What time? I just don't wanna But you in a in a challenging position. The worst case is we had to have to send out mailed notice again. And you know if we're the ones doing the deferring and stuff it we're not talking about a lot of money to send out public notices in the mail, even if it's on the city's dime. You're the boss. What do you wanna do? I'm just not again depending when you clarify to me what traffic study you want done ? That's probably gonna be the time frame of when we can get that done and engage in the Let me clarify when I When I say trap, I'm not. I misuse the word I'm talking about street study. That Uh, the width of these streets to handle those vehicles. So you Here's the problem. We had. Yeah. We did not have any, uh, definitive study. We had a resident go out and measure on his own and give us give us uh, a Interpretation, an interpretation I would like that that are, I would like our professional staff to do it. And know that for sure. That That either these amount of vehicles cannot You know, transverse on those roads. Widths of all if you do this, and you identify that type of a deficiency in your road system, it is going to apply to all vehicles. Not just RVS. It will apply to Everything. And that is photographed in here and all of that. So I just wanna be clear about that. And the road that you're walking down. I understand if, but we're not gonna exacerbate a problem. If in fact we don't have the wits for these these vehicles. Then we're not gonna in my opinion. I don't I wouldn't want to exacerbate the problem, but I'd want to know for sure. Before we kill. A project. That we know for sure again. We have, uh, an ad hoc study. Done by A, uh, a resident. But I'd like to have it actually looked at by staff. I think my terms of what she's saying is, you may force us in the police to start enforcing and in the semis and the play. You may force us in a position to stop those. Um no, That's not the point. That's not. That's not the point. But that's something that point, but that might be the result. That's the result. That's what I'm trying to say to you. That might be your So what you're saying is we have roads that are insufficient. We're allowing these vehicles to go up and down and we're gonna kill any project. So how do we How do we Do build that parking lot back there. Where we are now. Inviting all the vehicles that visit the sponge docks to go all the way to the back of the sponge docks area. We're inviting them to go back there and we're not and they're gonna be RVS. We know RVS are gonna be involved in going back. I just wanna explain the cause and effect you have to understand. When you do this, there could be a cause and an effect from it and that's all I gotta bring out to you Do what you want, but there's a cause and effect. I think what you're asking to do. I'd like to add something. If you guys are gonna make this motion, which I'm not gonna support anyways, I want it to include all historical perspective and history of short term and overnight stay in the sponge docks and that special area plan. I want all the history about it. To be included. Because that's part of our decision making process and the character and of it, but I'm not supporting This. Uh, tabling. We're wasting the residents time. Uh you you know, we can't even come up with what? We really want to come back and table and provide more information. We're really wasting their time and we're appeasing to the applicant. So that's that's all I have to say. Thank you. I. I think Uh, I. I think the difference is between the vehicles that go down there are there that that's not there. That's not their destination. That's the part of their you know, Uh, what would you call logistics? And um and I think what we're talking about is creating a destination for these , Um, the city actually doing something To create to make the situation worse. I. I may take some research on your part to kind of Unless you think it's black and white. So I don't want to wind up doing something that's unintended. On the other hand, I completely understand what, uh, the logic behind. We don't want to make a situation any worse, either. You know you're not gonna stop A large 18 wheeler going down a substandard with road. I mean, we're just not going to do that. But but that's the that's a public road unless we, uh unless there's uh um we're not requiring them to go down there but by improving something we are requiring them to go down there. Uh, as a destination, which is, I think a different different way of looking at it. It's just an observation. Yes, Vice Mayor Eisner. So the fact that we get this information Stops us from having tracked the trailers going by, or is it the fact of us restricting his use Because of that determination? No If you're if what you're saying is that your road is unfit for vehicles of that size. Then it's unfit for all vehicles of that size, and it's a problem that you as a city will then have to find a solution to Oh, nobody said it's unfit it just we wanted to know what sizes they were. So If you're saying but the underlying reason you're looking to examine the width of the this the width of this roadways is to say that It's unfit for these this size of vehicle. Is what you're saying, and if it's unfit for this size a vehicle, then it's unfit for all vehicles that size. I'm not sure that that we're making a determination that it's unfit for those vehicles. But we do have situations where the sponge docks, streets are closed. And when they're closed, you wouldn't get tractor trailers going by, But you could still get RVS going by. I believe at this point it needs to be voted up and then voted down. Thank you. Miss Vincent. Um our Ms Kardashian. One of you, uh, can can the applicant reapply and as far as a time frame goes with conditional use, Yes, they they have the opportunity to resubmit an application if it's denied How long would that uh, They have to wait a certain time frame? I don't know. I don't know off the top of my head. I. I think I think you have the ability to deny as a as a term. Is it without? Prejudice a way to let them reapply sooner than the statutorily. But I don't know. Hold on is that. And there may not be a limit on for a better for you. Yes, that would be better for the city manager as well. What was that? I'm sorry. It would just be better for us than Do it that way, then If we were able to reapply So if you Deny it. State the reasons why you're denying it with respect to the information that you feel is missing. That does not meet the criteria. So the information that you're discussing that you wanted to see in the table. You would say it didn't contain this information, this information and this information as part of your denial, and then it gives the clear basis for it. And when they bring the application back, they can address that. And you can rehear everything all at once. I'll withdraw my tabling motion. And I would entertain. Um Motion. Six months is the day that has that criteria. Six months. Any final action for denial shall not have another, uh, dental application filed on any part of the subject property for a period of six months from the date. Such final action. That's good, identical. Being a kid. That's a hard that's our conditional use criteria that's in your code. OK? So I I'll pull my motion for tabling. I'd like to make a motion. Uh can I? How do you make them do? I can I make a motion in the negative? No, I don't think so. Make a motion to I how you make it in the I'm sorry if I'm going to make a motion, So you Yeah. You're the way your rules of procedure are written is that all your motions are supposed to be affirmative motions. So you'd have to. Um, how do I introduce those? Yeah That's what I was just wondering. I don't I don't see how you would do that. As I suggested. This needs to be voted voted down, and then I get the this point. We'll see the application, possibly six months do do do motion to suspend the rules of procedure so you can make the motion and the negative. OK, I make a motion to suspend the rules of procedure. Second I second OK, Roll call, please. When clarification. I didn't hear all of that. Could you repeat it? Somebody glut. I made a motion to suspend the rules of procedure so I can make a, uh, motion in in the negative. OK? Roll call, please. Monsieur Di Donato. Yes Mr Cues? Yes, Commissioner Colas? No. I may. Eisner. Yes, it is. Yes. OK? I'd like to make a motion. To deny the, um, application. With the Um With the reasons uh, helping with this, with the reasons being Um missing and insufficient information regarding, um Traffic is what I'm hearing. Um and, uh Drainage and engineering and, um, legal ownership and ownership. Incompatibility to special area plan. As well as the historical perspective of overnight and short term lodging and stay in the sponge Dock Special Area District character District. All that Com compatibility compatibility. I'll second that Is that sufficient? Ms Kardash? Yes. Uh, is there any discussion on that item? Roll call, please. We should eat. Donato. No. Commissioner Kanas Yes. Commissioner Colas? Yes. Commissioner Eisner. Yes, they are. Yes. Do you? I know it's after the agenda item, But do you do you understand? What we're trying to do is just to get some additional information so you can OK, Well, Miss Vincent can explain that to you or or the city manager for that matter. I Um, OK, We've got one last item and then we've got AC R a meeting. Get the. OK? Item 11 Ordinance 20 24-02 M Kardash If you could read that, by title, please. Thank you. Mayor Ordinance. 20 24-02 Ordinance of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida, amending the city of Tarpon Springs Code of Ordinances Appendix, A comprehensive zoning and Land Development code article. Six development agreements Section, 96.00 authority and requirements providing for severability providing for inclusion in the code of ordinances of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida and providing for the effective date of this ordinance. This was advertised in The Tampa Bay Times by title only on February 7th 2024 and March 6th 2024. This is second and final reading. OK, Ms Vincent. I know it's uh, second reading. No new information to be added to the record. So just, uh, recommend crux of it is changing the, uh Length of term for development agreement with an auto, not an automatic, but a 15 year extension by Super Majority vote of the board. Thank you. Um, are there any public comments on that item? PX 514 Ashland Avenue. Uh, it's good to see the board correcting this. That was changed previously. Uh I do wanna remind the board that the way it's worded The extension can be up to five years, not five years, and it's important the fact that you've put it where it does require a super majority so I would full heartedly recommend you, uh, pass this ordinance. Thank you. Any other public comments. Mr Jump. Are there any remote access comments? No this time, OK? Um, any commission comments. Have a motion and a second to approve, please So moved. Second Uh, this is for, uh, clarification for ordinance 2024-02 application number 23-07 amendment to the Land Development code. Development agreement. Second reading, OK? Roll call. Mr D, Donato. Oh, I'm I'm sorry. I'm just trying to sign a form, but I'm sorry you're voting on the ordinance. Oh, yes. Mr Kane is Commissioner Kas V Mayor Eisner. Yes, Yes, OK , let's go to board and staff comments. Assistant Chief ruche any anything? No. OK, um M kardash. Nothing further, sir. Thank you for being patient with us tonight. You get a gold star, As they say. I see Angela chorus for that scowl on your face. Friday 11 P.m. will be the Dorset Park. Uh, the door. The doorstep Park plaque. That's 11 o'clock on 11 A.m. on Friday on Friday on Friday and Saturday is the city's Easter egg event 10 to 1 at the sports complex. Um Ms Jacobs Anything I Thank you. OK let's go. Uh, Commissioner Di Donato, Anything? Um, Commissioner Juliano anything Hit this button. Um I appreciate your, uh, your tolerance with me and my Um, little ailment that I had, and, uh, I appreciate your Changing the meeting. I never asked for it, but it's appreciated. Um Trying to Miss Kardashian. Yeah, OK. No. What was that? Everybody. Right Well, everybody, everybody. Oh, you Yeah. Even you. So, um You know, I was only say good things to Ms Kardashian rotten So I just need to clarification. Go ahead. I like Frank D, Donato. And frames to so, um. I was. I was asked to speak at a, um At a, um A eulogy for a neighbor of mine. Um, I wasn't able to attend. His name was Jerry Conrad. Don't know if any of you know him. If you did you were lucky. Um but I couldn't attend because of what I was dealing with. Um But, you know Uh, this my, my neighbor, Frank, Um, Jerry Conrad. You know he was You know amongst us. Um There are Silent heroes. There are those Just good people. Uh, they don't all need attention, like we all do. Um And They Jerry Conrad. Would Do anything for anybody. In our neighborhood and probably anywhere else. Um, if you were Painting something he would get a brush and come over and help you. If you were Cutting Trees after a storm he'd bring his saw over and he jump in and Do that. And those special people are in our town. Again. They're not famous. They don't run for anything. Uh, they go to work, they come home. They take care of their families. And They help their neighbors. And we have those special people amongst us. And They don't always get attention. Um, because they don't ask for it. But any anyone from the Conrad family. It's listening. Um Jerry was special. So thank you. That's all. OK? Um Commissioner did not. I'm sorry. TSD Did I ask you already? Uh, Commissioner Kask that I just wanna wish everyone all the Orthodox faithful a great and strong lent. And, um Cali pasca. So thank you. OK? Eisner. To whoever's left and can hear this . There's a plant sale at Mother Mears on the 23rd. Please feel free to come and Buy a plant. OK? Um we had a very successful Greek Independence Day celebration over the weekend. A lot of activities going on a lot of people and, um And, um It went well, so and I appreciate the, uh Police Department's patience in in the, uh, logistics of carrying that out. It went well, Thank you very much, OK? Meeting adjourned at 1219. Men's room. Um if unless you want a break. Oh Commissioner Colas, do you do you wanna take a break or OK, let's we're OK to continue. OK let's go ahead and this will. It won't take long. Um These things be way. OK? Let's have a change of attorneys. OK? Thank you, Ms Kardash. OK? All right. I called to order the Community Redevelopment Agency meeting. For the downtown Tarpon Springs Redevelopment Area on Tuesday, March 19th 2024 Um at 12:20 P.m. Roll call, please. Is Here. Eisner. Here. Here Mr Kis here, Commissioner D D'Amato here. OK, uh, City Manager? Uh, The chorus is your name, right? Yes If you would like to go ahead. Um actually, this is a resolution, isn't it? So M card. Um, I'm sorry. Let me get my act together here. Mr Lewis? Yes If you could read Resolution, 20 24-1 by title, please. Yes A resolution of the Community Redevelopment Agency of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida Amending the budget for fiscal year. 2023 through 24. Ok, Thank you, Um, City manager? Of course . Ron Harrell. You have this, Ron. Thanks Well, good morning, Mayor and commissioners on herring finance director, Um CR a budget resolution. 2024-01 is being brought forward for budgeted. From fiscal year 2023 that were in process and are not completed. As of September. 30th 2023. I just tried to itemize the three items in the cover letter there for you. And, um, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. OK? Or any public comments. Mr Jump. Are there any remote access comments? And there are no raised hands at this time. Is that Mike? Sorry, Mr Acey, Um Commission comments anything? Yes I wonder, uh, Ron, this $200,000 for parking downtown is that is that is for us to continue to try to get more parking to the downtown area that we've been budgeting for about 100,000 a year. So those are the prior two years that we budgeted for, but they haven't been spent yet. There has been a, um, property real nearby that Chiropractic office between Copenhagen and stuff. Uh, they've been willing to wanna talk about parking stuff, but we've given it to the city manager to talk about, Um Prime location close to a lot of businesses in town. It ain't gonna get much closer. They just They just not coming to the price. We can give you they won't come down to a reasonable price. OK I'm still waiting. If they come back, I was still waiting work with them a little bit, but I'm sure it's one of those properties where we might have to pay a little bit more, because that's how close it is to downtown. So something I go a little bit more, but not quite where they are right now. So Thank you. Um, any other commissioner comments Yeah, I'll just ask a question. We have the 92,000 for the Jit, um, building. Um I know that it hop was doing it, Uh, you know, For free. What is the money that we put aside there? What is that, for? This is for the parking garage. I. I understand for the garage for the jitney. So what we're waiting for is for him to give us a proposal that meets that price frame. Um, that's basically what we're waiting for. We inform him to design center. Bring something back to him to meet. What What? You as a commission budgeted, Um and it's taken a while to It's taken a while It may not come to fruition, but he's still have an opportunity to bring us back a plan and I understand we've got some contingencies with some underground stuff that may not be able to meet this price, though. We're still waiting the ball still in Mr Hoffman's court, and we're waiting to see what he had proposed to get that cost. Uh, ability to meet the budget. OK, I mean, You can't answer But he has to do so We have to wait for them. Just figured I'd ask because I just bring the money forward. I. I understand. Is there anything else by smear? Colin I don't have anything. Um, There's no further comments. Roll call, please. We need a motion. Motion So move. Oh, we need a motion in a second. I already so moved. I'm sorry. Second We don't know. Mr D. Donato? Yes. Kanis. Yes Commissioner Kas. Yes, Mayor Eisner? Yes, sure about is Yes. For instance, we born in I'll Bring the rest on, Go back and start your time. Is the requirement we do every year to have to present this report. It's a requirement requirement. We do it in March. So this is the report to bring forward and I'll turn it over to Karen Lemmons to give the economic development report. Thank you, Karen Lemon's economic development manager. This is the annual CR a report for the fiscal year. 2023 which covers October 1 of 2022 to September 30th of 2023 and, as Mark said, it needs to be done in March of each year by state statutes. The map is on the right. As you can see, it's bounded by mirrors on the south, the anklet River on the north. It goes up and down all 19 and it goes east on the downtown area to Levis and then west to spring Bayou was created in 2001 . The goals are to stimulate redevelopment and encourage economic growth in the area. We've had some good business activity again this year. This is a list of the businesses that have opened and or expanded. The expansions are really exciting for us because it shows that there's economic activity in the area and we've got a good, um, business growth. These are some openings coming in 2024. Some of these have already opened but did not fall within this fiscal year. Um, Catalina La Cantina were hoping that they're gonna open this year. Um Jojo's Diner is expanding into the adjacent storefront ID KS is the former, Um, Tin man, which was copper mule, which was Irish. Kelly's uh, five branches has relocated downtown and then Kohat and KIIS are still projects that are ongoing. Our incentive grants are a big part of our CR. A. We have For incentive grants that we offer that help to attract businesses and keep our businesses here. The facade, the restaurant, the building code and the mural grant. Each of these are 50% reimbursable capped at a maximum amount. Um 50% reimbursable, meaning the applicant pays upfront and then is reimbursed at the back end when the project is complete. The facade. Grant is the oldest. It was created in 2011. The restaurant ran in 2015 the building code in 2020, then our mural Grant is the newest one in 2021. Just looking at over the years we've offered and had approved 99 facade Gras 20 Restaurant, Gras, 13 building code grants, and then this past year we've had one mural grant That's not completed yet, but that's at the, um Uh, five branches Brewery. And then just looking at who applies for the, uh, for the for the grants. The building owner primarily does as you can see on the facade and the building called grants, and the restaurant is about 5050. Here's just an example of the impact that the grants have. This is Sponge City brewing. You can see the before and after Sponge City brewing also got a restaurant grant for Grease trap and some permanent kitchen fixtures. And then this is an example. The building code grant. This was twisted orange. I had to do a complete, um redo of their mechanical and their electrical systems. Economic impact of the grants. We've had 132 projects, um, about $812,000 expended in grant funding, which leverage private investment of about 4.5 million. And as you can see, we've got a good rate of, uh, rate of return, And then the average grant amount is a little over 6000. If you hold on for a minute, I think we need five more minutes. Is it that time again? Thank you. No no, This is a different meeting. OK now we're OK. All right, Never mind finishing it up. Exactly Yeah, yeah, that's correct. You're correct. It's a different It's a different agency. We can go forward. Go ahead, Mr Li. Use the interruption. And then projects within the CR A, um, in this year. These are the Tarpon Springs apartments. This is at eight unit development that was approved, Um, last year along the Pinellas Trail. The livery, stable hotel and adaptive reuse of a historic structure in the historic district. This will be an eight room hotel. Um they've got all their approvals and they're in for permitting right now. The end CLO Distillery and this is a working title. They're not being called the clove distillery. Um but they're taking another adaptive use of a Kwan Sett Hut building That will be our second distillery in the city. And five branches Brewery. They are now open and they purchased the former crusty Bread bakery last year, Um, expanded and relocated, Um, downtown. I think you can see there's a theme here with the adaptive reuse of these older structures. That's exactly what the CR a is meant to do between the cons the Kwan set you got crusty bread, the tea house also , um, an Orange street. Those are all taking old buildings that have really been, um Not in use, putting them back on the market and getting them. Um Back to you again. And then downtown parking. This is an ongoing project. For us with the business activity comes the issue of parking. So within the last, um three years, the CR a has leased three private parking lots, uh, recently installed seven new parking directional signs to point motorists in the direction of where the parking is, Um, with the help of the Tarpon Springs police and the public works, Uh, we've created 12 new on street spaces on Harping on East Court streets. So within the last three years, um through Our own city solutions and private partnerships. We've created almost 100 and 15 new parking spaces. Beautification and, uh, historic preservation is also part of the CR a activities. Uh, landscaping, planters, lighting. We'll be doing a project this year lighting on, uh, North Stafford Avenue between East Harpin and the Dog Park. It's pretty dark there, so we'll be adding some lighting there. And then the historic markers. We now have 30 historic markers throughout the city. Uh, this slide lists the ones that are inside and outside the C. These And our local markers that are on the bottom. Um thanks to the partnership with the historical society. We've been able to add four more this year, and that project has become more popular as people are learning more about it. The summer of our signal was restored at the train depot this past year to, um, replicate what it had looked like back in the day. And then our festivals and events listed here. These are the ones that are within the CR. A They continue to be popular. Bring tourists and locals downtown help our businesses. And then ongoing and future projects. Uh as you know, the CR a owns the lot on the 100 block of East Harpin Avenue. We also own a spring Bayou West Tarpon Avenue property that the Community Development Center is located. Um, the proposed jitney building is a work in progress. And then we've got the code amendments and the comp plan updates and implementation of all those that will have an effect on the CR A, um, moving forward. And with that, I just wanna thank the CR a board for all of your support, and also the downtown business owners and property owners. For all of their support and all that they do for the city. It's really a pleasure working with all of them. Um without any comments or questions. Ms Lemons , you know when you when you kind of go through day by day, uh, during the year Um you really don't get a sense of how much is really going on until you actually collect it in one spot, and then you see, there's a whole lot going on. And um all of those that you mentioned are are really good businesses. And then um, I know that citywide we've had a lot come in through new chamber of memberships and things and ribbon cuttings, and, uh, so there's some real activity in Tarpon Springs. But the type of activity is, um, not anything that is changing the character of the town, which is good. As a matter of fact, it's adding to it, uh, such as the breweries and things, uh, those old buildings, so I'm really happy to see That? Yeah it's the info projects like you know, the asset based approach is taking what we have already and making it better. That's a needs based. Yeah. Thank you, Um Those variation or anything. I just want to thank you for all you do. Um I love the way the town looks, um I. I appreciate all the all your hard work. When I say I have, really, uh I mean, I get on nothing but good feedback . Everybody says that it's going in the right direction. And uh, I like to keep the, um Harpin tarp. So uh, it looks really good. And, uh, You know, I see more and more people. I know you have a women's not you, but they have women's night and they have these get togethers and it really is, You know, you pass by and it's a hustle and bustle. So uh, it's really From what I remember being down here 1011 years ago to what it is now is like night and day. And uh, you know, I just see it being younger people, not my age, but younger people that drink and you know, party and it's good food. It's good. Uh, it's good vibes. That's all. So thank you. Um Commissioner Kiano. I'm sorry . Could you? Uh, thank you, Karen. For all your hard work, I'm I'm happy to see that sketch for the, uh, heavily AC building . The old former builder where the ink distillery is gonna be that looks sharp and anything we can do to try to enhance that corridor as I talked about, you know, land use, switching some ability to build more mixed use along there as we Try to get people to come head down towards, uh, downtown. So thank you so much, and we're trying to head south and north on the trail and fill that in Our commissioner. Cooling in a Erin. Thank you for all you do. You know, Karen is a fellow Marathon runner. So she knows how to put the hard work in and, uh How to make it work for her. So thank you So much for everything. You know you you That's how you approach your job every day. Put your head down and Gets a little bit of done every day. And eventually it turns into something so thanks Um, thank you, Commissioner Di Donato. I will echo and offer you kudos. I go back a ways with you and I. I know that you've done a tremendous job and your job is free, much needed in this community. So thank you. Um There are no public. There are no public here. I assume Mr Racy . There's nobody that's got his hand up. Is that correct? You are correct, sir. There are no raised hands at this time, right? Um We need to have a motion to accept the annual report. Right this way. We have a motion to accept the annual report the CR a report Don't move. So 2nd 2nd. OK, Uh, roll call, please. Mr D, Donato. Uh yes. Yes. Yes yes. Yes. OK that unless any commissioner got any questions Um, I'm gonna adjourn the meeting. We also have a couple of documents here that need to be signed as well. So before you leave meeting adjourned at 1237. Thank you, Mr Lewis. Thank you so much. Yeah, I think so.