the notice requirements have been satisfied meeting dates for the year are listed in the annual agenda copies are sent to the record suburbanite northern Valley Press and posted on the Bol board in the lobby of the municipal center the notice of the special budget meeting resolution 24-65 has been sent to the record suburbanite suburbanite and Northern Valley News has been posted on the Bol board in the lobby of the municipal center and our website okay so the first order of business is public comments citizens are welcome to address the mayor and councel on any governmental item of concern to them whether or not is scheduled on the agenda below citizens must give their names and addresses but recognize to speak large groups are urged to select someone to represent them public is advised that these meetings are reported and are subject to the open public records Act just for anyone here from the uh the call the library board you're obviously welcome to speak right now but don't feel obligated to you'll be able to speak during the whole discussion of the library budget okay so is there anybody who wants to speak before we get started no okay all right so the first uh budget item today is the library so everyone can turn to the library page all right so um typically with this process you're you run the libraries yay thank you do a great job why don't you give us a little narrative um that tell us what's going on and what you'd like to say if anyone else wants to join in and then we'll start we'll second go to questions from the council actually before we go I apologize this the first J just super quick just two things one just a huge thank you to everybody thank everyone for coming from the library thank David Susan and the entire Finance team I will tell you going through this budget it feels a world different than it was year before and a year before that so first is just awesome the second one and I'd love to hope my fellow Council people agree on this we are coming up on our 130th anniversary of this town and I believe the digital version of our backbreaking book this is the first time we've ever done this I would propose we never see this money Tre die ever again so if we could ask I need approval from my fell account but we don't need this book anymore just crazy so online is awesome congratulations in my office did scan this and put it in Dropbox yeah awesome so I I downloaded mine last night so if we give that a a try and look at it keep you comfortable with that gives you easily Ts that helps that awesome so let's do that and that saves money right okay thank you I okay so um I'm going to do something a little bit different this year because we have two council members and we have a new burough administrator and um so might not be as familiar with how the library works the um actually so this is your very first T ofly budget hearing and it's good to start with the library we're because we're pretty easy our our budget is is actually fixed by New Jersey state law but um I want to start by introducing our Board of Trustees when you might not know they're the ones they're the we're a little bit different from bough departments because we have the board of Tres is the governing body of the library and they're appointed by mayor Zen who's actually Mark is is one of the border truste and when he can't make it to the meetings we have Nicole matz who uh she comes to the meetings and votes as he would vote and we have our board President Martin Gilbert they go from our vice president Kathleen cook our secretary treasurer Sun John and we have Teresa AIT Elizabeth worms and um I've already introduced neple mat and um we don't have here Julie love and you might already know our our newest board member yena mtis who she was on the board of educ she used to be on the board of education now she's on the Library board and um we also have David C Lorio who you might know as the Ten of Life High School librarian he represents the superintendent of schools so um did I miss any oh and then we have our tly library friends here the tenly library friends um they're an organization that supports the library they sponsor some of our programs and we have our president Marilyn Freedman over there and our treas Sally so how the library budget works is um every every October that the number comes out that's it's the equalized valuation of all assessible property in town so when that number comes out for every th000 the library gets 33 cents and and that's that's the number that's our budget and um you know so I can't come here and say oh well I need more money for this and I need more that that's the number of course you know if you want to give us more we'll take you but but that that's how our budget works so when I come here you know I'd like to talk to you about what we're doing with that money and how we're striving to give tenly the library it deserves and I live in tenly um most of the bo lives in tly and the fun thing about living in tly is that people actually do read you know everyone says who reads books anymore well the kids inteny really reading books you know um when look at I have this chart here that shows how circulation of children's books and these are books these are not like stem kits and video games these are actual books and circulation of books has gone up almost 177% since 2019 which is the last year before the pandemic and um you know it and not only are the kids coming in to check out outs but they're actually hanging out in the library coming to programs and in fact recently we opened up a registration for a kid's paint class and um so the paint class opened up registration on February February 8th at 9 o'clock in the morning and by 9:03 the class was full and every March yeah exactly it's like a Taylor Smith concert and last year so every march on a Saturday this year it's March 16th we have um New Jersey makers's day and and it's a the whole all the libraries in New Jersey they all do it it's a stem it's it's stem activities for the whole family and we have events at every level and last year when we opened it up um a registration and we have so we had registration for all the individual events and it was completely booked in one hour so this year we're trying to do it without registration because we had so many unhappy people who didn't get in so um except for the team programs because we need to know the material how much um you know we need a certain amount of materials for them but um we'll see how that goes on March 16th without registration but for that's the point is PE people really do use the library and really love the library and they hang out there you if you've ever been to the library after school you've seen the kids um there there are a lot of them they walk over after high school and um middle school middle school and high school are both with them walking distance they read and they do their homework and they like to play with we have um I I I like to bring toys to the bud of hearings just so know and we have open S playay in the children's room and um this for example is our coding Mouse so this is this helps with rudimentary coding skills for the younger kids there's a maze that we put out and you have to code the mouse properly so that it corresponds to the coding in the Maze so that the mouse can get to the Keys and um the kids love it it's eyes are supposed to light up but I'm not coding it properly it's not right but anyway you got the point and um we also have our our tfly library friends sponsor wonderful concerts and I know that some of you have been there if you're there on a Sunday for those concerts you see how they're packed they also sponsor our Museum passes so you can come and you can check out a museum to get into let's say Moma for free or the Intrepid um and that's also very popular they're bringing art and culture into the community so um that's that's really what the library does is we're providing we're we're not just this Center for you know where people go for information and Recreation we're also the center of the community I have questions from Council Members I guess I'll start with that first thank you for to do obviously incredibly meaningful I've had three kids go through the public school so I know the value of the library um just curious here does this suggest that 91,000 children's books were Tak out yes yes wow and the other question I have obviously you're not asking for anything in terms of excess of what you received at the state mandated level do you generate income for yourself and is that a separate you know pocket of how you guys operate and and have available funds for other yes the tenly library friends for example raise money on on behalf of the library and um so they they'll sponsor some of our programs and um on occasion people will like we have had in the past people give us money for certain things like for example uh you know this is a two $2,000 for books on women studies things like that outside of donation me my kids been numerous times I don't know what charges are uh how does that how does that get captured within you know your overall budget if at all has that a meaningful source of revenue for you just in terms of the way you guys can gener based on Opera activ we it's basically I mean the the amount of money that we generate from fines is a minuscule amount and it goes into like Petty operations of the life like buying coffee cups and you know paper BS and whatever it's really not a major s there no other means the rtion no no I mean we have had in the past have been some significant um benefit Ben uh inheritances from the librarian not Librarians but from people who love the library like I don't know if you know the area that we call the art gallery where the piano is that addition was put on years ago because some woman at nuty left the library very you know a few tens of thousands of dollars to do that 500,000 to do that um so you know every once in a while it's very nice to do it but basically the onethird of a mill is what we operate on and what we plan on and and some people keep saying oh well the onethird of the bill is higher now you're getting more money than you ever got well the onethird of the mill is based on the evaluation of of all the properties in town and as you all know in town everything is being knocked down that's that's older and affordable and million doll homes are going up on the space and they're paying higher taxes so that increases the third of a mill now I've lived here 54 years and I'm very upset seeing big houses on small pieces of the property with no longer having any trees or anything and and historical that but this is what's increasing our our yearly budget Julie you have a question yeah just this could be more of a question for Susan uh I know that Joe Rossy retired he was doing the weekly maintenance at the library do we have somebody who is doing that is because that says here vacancy I just I know that we do you have a weekly maintenance so right now you have two individuals who bu go that are part not but they are part-time to the library but when Joe Rosy gets replaced that's be his days yeah he will have to oversee the main some that okay so he so he hasn't been replace not this point that's one of the positions that's open and we're trying to repl there there's a budget line they get charged for the yeah I was addressed and I just on a a personal anecdote I when I've been by the library different times i' since people go to get those Museum passes they're very popular people are going to the city it's a great deal to like get with Bri um but yeah thank you for all your work thanks to Lord thanks to the Friends of the library appreciate it jul I just ask how many square feet is the library do you happen to know of the top of your head anyone um it's it's over 14,000 it's over 14,000 which of the make no no I just done a whole different I just to I'm sorry um again thank you so I was trying to look through so it's awesome I'm seeking to understand so you know 80% of the budget goes to people and building insurance and stuff that Susan tells me are acronyms that I don't understand um that's cool so about 10% of it goes to books and Publications which I would say books and I assume all the videos and whatever are there other parts that like I know we have we have a whole bunch of computers like do we upgrade those and where is in the budget so the computers are actually on a maintenance schedule with buckles so buckles is um just so you know they're uh the Consortium that we so they're we belong to a larger library consor and uh they our like cataloging system they we pay them they provide that to us and they actually upgrade our computers looks like every two years but we we have you know where that s is at yes within data processing or or office equipment or Computer Services because we have a line I believe it is I point I want I want more stuff data processing equipment that's the biggest one that's about $70,000 that is that where we get the computers for the kids yes and then the only other one I know it's a much bigger conversation that we'll talk about capital I do think we as a council have to take another look we started last year at a whole new Municipal complex where I would imagine a library being so we have capital for the first time at the end of this meeting today and we have another one a couple days but I will be bringing out I think there are three or four major pieces that we have to look at and at some point we have to build I believe a municipal center we decide if we want some sort of community or re Center we have to decide we want to upgrade our senior center so we should be talking about that but that's obviously your voice is important because I would imagine the library living in that in so just to follow up on that particular comment so the library is 15,000 ft so let's just P 15,000 which means it would cost about $7.5 million to build a library right about at 7 $500 a square put which means between the amount of money everyone together has spent on preparing the outside walls and this just was money we just wasted about uh was said 5% and I don't want to do that anymore correct so we spent 5% of what it would cost to 5% might not sound like a lot you know we're end up doing that every single year until we just completely something think about is the 30 MS only appliable operating expenses or can someone be the C answer that question again number yeah so the follow question is could any of the funding from the one3 in Mill be put towards the future or the surplus of historic surus if building build and then you had that ver of the Deb service that was directly I believe that's a [Music] l yeah so so everybody understands it's state mandated then they get their third of the bill but at the end of our Reserve year which is our budget is a two-year budget cycle so right now we're in the 2024 budget but the 2023 budget is already Reserve year so in the end of this year we turn over any remaining funds to the library that have been raised through taxation which is part of their onethird of am I have a question because the Barrow is under such tight constraints with their budget caps and their tax caps is there a way that the Barrow can appeal maybe to the state librarian if you have a surplus in that Reserve year that we could get some of those mons back as long as the trustees agree and the state librarian agrees I what is if it exceeds 20% of the previous year's operating expens yes exceeds 20% the previous year's operating expenses that's that's the law but I mean that money it goes in our capital budget and that's what we're going to use to fix everything that needs to be fixed within the library and I know you're talking about getting building a new library but you know we don't know that how big is that capital budget roughly how right it's about $600,000 that's from the funds we've been giving right well not that you've been giving it's the funds that we're not spending well no I mean but we've accumulated because we were not spending our entire budget every year previously they used to spend it down and we then decided that we would turn it over because we had to because you have to so I I did see thank you for sharing that that spreadsheet I just want to know I saw two towns in Bergen count where the they amended the oneir of the mill but I want to know like how that how would that happen because that's the result of there if the number if the equalized valuation number gets amended then the one3 bill gets amended it has nothing to do with the town getting money back from the the library gets 33 cents for every th000 of that number so if that number gets amended that would be how the 13 I think we're you know we're ahead I think what we have to do is again I believe we should be thinking about thisal uh bit complex now again there's a whole spectrum of we can build you know four walls and that's a building let's see what we can build and then of course the library who should own their within those four walls if they want to use some of their money their choice on making the walls purple what um that's their choice so but but I think it's our responsibility to build the four walls well be your life and you could you could buy that with you know you're building the shell of building h track and so forth and then inner workings of portion of corre that's what I'm thinking that's what I'm Imaging on that with the $600,000 capital fund be able to be utilized um by the library for the special effects within the within the structure the special well the areas that you want from a from a well that's our intention but like things that you see listed under our future building plans that is what we intend to do with the money in our capital budget just following through the hypothetical if if it was if the the new building or acrost 7 million inside of that 75 million would be funding to finish out building you know obviously they have fully functional right so as you get into the interior U amenities that the library want to offer we could tap into whatever that cost is utilizing some of yes okay but we definitely I I mean I don't know how quickly this want to wait for we we want to we were waiting for the roof to get done before we started these were things we had planned for quite some time I know I I just started in one the tail end the blue CL which we have some there's an additional week that that is uh materialized our Engineers are on it we are at the point where I think that that the engineers are going to have the contractor remove the work that they did and they have to do a new roof again and then a lot of that discussion is going to be with with uh with W close session but we are well aware of the new weekend we're addressing this Julie does the um does the library have to be in the location it is right now sorry I think it's very advantageous for us to be in the municipal center because it's good for the town to have a you want a and it's also near the schools and there's adequate parking because some of the libraries like I I was recently in the uh Boda library and they really have they're in the municipal building of Boda but there there's basically no needed parking you have to park on the street to get to the library and and there's not that much paring on the street you know whereas I mean you can you see here what it's like how how wonderful it is to see the kids playing soccer over there a program in the library on Sunday and people you know with the community garden so it's very nice to be centralized and one of the things I have to say is I'm really thankful that you guys have done the Rove to the library but you know as a homeowner here for 54 years I know it's always better to do maintenance before Things Fall Apart than to wait until there are leaks in the roof or plumbing problems or whatever because you know the old saying is stitch in time saves nine and that's the problem here these buildings have never been maintained in in the last 40 years that I've lived here I've never you know I've seen squirrels coming into this building jumping up from trees that are overhanging and and roofs that are never replaced on a timely basis I mean this this is what what you guys are supposed to be up on and and you've sort of been neglectful you know talking about new buildings well where are we going to do a new building there's no space here well we've discussed it I agree with everything you're saying I also agree that we haven't taken care of these buildings and it's not worth keep putting good money up there bad money we spoke about with the engineer and I think it's a great idea my vote would be literally on this same complex like literally across the street across the across the parking lot such that literally on Friday night you close this library and on Monday morning the kids go to the other one so I wouldn't move it I'd keep it in the municial complex and create a way such that we don't lose one day guess oh we're going to lose very few days uh and literally Friday night Monday morning well the difficulty with that is that's across the street is on De so that's going to complicate again let's not get into site okay this awesome great any other questions from Council Members I wanted to find out the presco library right now undergo renov and essentially the library was allowed to approximately 1.2 million order to do that thank you question I I have a question for you you and I talked over the phone and you also mentioned that perhaps I should go in front of the Council on Tuesday would now be a to what we discussed open right up okay so my name is Nicole actually the mayor's alternate for the the board and it's so exciting that we're sitting here this morning and and having these discussions and you guys are asking such excellent questions and although Mark and I have great communication really would be more seamless if we had a joint use committee between perhaps two of the council members two of our stakeholders our director perhaps quarterly especially now that we're talking once again about another building there's lots of line items that we share with the burrow that many of the council members weren't aware of or there was miscommunication about and it's just so great we have new council members it's a new year we're fresh I think this is a perfect time to set up a joint use committee where every few months perhaps quarterly we we discuss this versus Mark and I which we have wonderful communication then communicating to you guys and then he's communicating back to me that sort of thing so I love that idea and I apologize to I spoke to yena as well and I just have that chance if all traveling I would actually you don't do it here but I would love to take it up immediately with all our afterwards every other committee has a council representative a member of one of the six of us yeah except literally I looked except for the library correct so I actually me say speak toar it's my fault on is there a legal reason why every other Committee in this entire town has one of the six of us practice that's all so I would love to propose and again let's take it offline that one of the six of us I wouldn't create another committee I take committee know I once sat on a committee of committees swear on my um but what should do you guys already have board meetings I believe one of the six of us should be a member of that committee and then you have the voice of the council at that okay and so just so you know we meet every month so meets every month chamber meets every month believe we meet during the day no we meet at night there you go so if Omar's the boss Omar says we can do that I'd love to have the mayor appoint one of the six of us to your standing meeting yeah and then you I think this would be fabulous because there's so much to communicate between our board and how the library runs and what's going on with wonderful just as an aside I'm double dipping a little not legally I own another house up state New York and it's a very sad situation where there was this huge miscommunication and falling out and sort of right versus left politics in a little town called Lake ler it turned out that there was so much harassment and intimidation that the director of the library had no choice but to Res board members resigned the library closed it's a terrible situation so the New York State uh Sals got got involved and they had to appoint uh board members and we're just opening up now again after seven months of not being go through now that's the other side of the spectrum I we have a beautiful library in a wonderful town great board members that are really committed to this town but one of the things I notice is we we have a really elegant fancy town but we don't have that library that really speaks to I think where what our town really represents we have wonderful restaurants and a beautiful downtown Etc I walk into Valley Cottage New York's library and it's something amazing it's beautiful and the library gets a lot of use everybody's there adults are there during the day uh kids are there all afternoon and evening my two kids spend the afternoons there because I worked until 6 o' that's where I went to pick them up it was time so well spent for them um keeping it in the municipal complex all these things that we need to talk about we do have monies that we've been saving and saving and saving because we have moldy carpets and we have stains and there's all kinds of issues so there's so much for us to be talking to you guys about so if there's a board member or two board members that want to come to our meeting every single month and you think that's a better situation we really would welcome that greatly I think that would make the communications and moving forward in whatever Avenue that we do move forward in go seamless more seamlessly we'll talk as a team in we'll get back for fantastic and I just have a question new I don't know but your the money that you're allocated right one3 you're talking about maintenance right is that money the maintenance that you're talking about is that money that comes out your allocated okay yes we we're charged the percentage of the electricity for the complex based on square footage and maintaining like all right everybody good thank you everyone Library appreciate time keep up the great work over sprink always at the time it was Jo build 30,000 research on top Library we should actually you ask your Phil could you deal with AI with princ University and see if yeah why not yeah warning how are you today not too bad s cream cheese thank you very much Tomatoes I have some in the office thank you why don't you introduce yourself and we have uh two new council members here who yourself welcome to uh Jeff Stam tax assessor uh since 2019 uh prior to that um Appraiser for both resal commercial properties my own firm and that up to all right Jeff why don't we U why don't you walk us through whatever you like to talk about and the council members will ask questions okay um my budget typically doesn't change much year-over-year uh most of my stuff is satutory and it's not all that expensive mailings and such uh postage goes up every year um some of the conferences go up every year other than everything kind of stays pretty much the same uh we added I believe between 30 and 40 million to the tax list this year um the added assessments were about 40 million when we take away money for appeals and money for demos the demos come back obviously once the new properties are completed um Market is surprisingly resilient it is lasted at at least a year and a half longer than I thought it would um and the way things are going I'm going to stop before forecasting when the Market's going to crash I just don't know when it's going to happen um I expect when interest rates go down everybody says that the market prices are going to go down because property are going to be available but I think the way the market is now when interest rates go down everybody's buying power is going to go up and the prices are going to stay high so it could go either way um it's just something that we have to keep an eye on um appeals are finally well last year they were pretty good they're in line we have unfortunately one attorney that just continues to file appeals on properties that have been settled um so my thoughts on that are but I I would like to run it by the council is to file cross Appeals typically doing cross appeals on Commercial and Industrial properties are more um palatable because it's a business uh cross appeals against residents are a little more unpalatable because then you're targeting your residents tell us with cross appeal is where we if the way the appeal it work is if res if an attorney files an appeal on one property and we have it assessed at 2 million I'm going to use equalized values just Market values we have it assess at 2 million they come in with an appraisal at45 and I say okay I think I could support the 2 million but obviously if we go before the court I'm going to hedge my bets because you have an appraisal at5 so let's see if we can settle at one if they agreed we settle at 18 it's lower than I want but it's higher than what they would probably want in in a a court case we settle at 18 now our ratio changes every year so last year it was at 80% which just you know multiply the value by 20% when we're at 80 and that's what the market value is this year it's at 75 so it's another 5% difference what this one attorney does is if we settled last year that 1.8 at 80% she's filing again now claiming she wants 1.8 at 75% while you can understand that logic but the reason the the ratio changes is because the market is elevated the market has increased by 5% over last year that's why the ratio changes goes down by 5% so with all of that out there if when I settled at 1.8 I felt like I could support two now at 1.8 at 75% I think I could still support two or at the market now 2.2 if I needed to F cross appeal and say if you force me to get an appraisal to support my value we will go to court and I will request an increase so if I request an increase you're looking for a decrease and we both have appraisals that can support it let's all walk away that's what we did with um the nickak country club I believe that we were talking about that last year um they have three property two properties two properties with they had six years outstanding on each property we filed cross Appeal on that we got them to walk away no no harm no foul on either side I would definitely do that for business like said yeah for the businesses yeah our problem is we're 95% residential the all of these repeat filings are in residential Pro sorry I apologize I think that back what I'm most interested in we spoke about this last year are the builders the out of town Builders yeah yeah no those are being assessed property this is just for this is for tax appeals it's not for new assessments so so you already have that you the yes somebody that's already has the home they've owned it for years and they're just saying that they're over assessed and the problem is in my experience as an phraser before this you can always not always but almost always support any value you really need to there's always one or two bad sales in my experience if they're low they're bad but if they're in the other experience if they're low they're good there's always one or two of those sales and they're going to get thrown into every single appra so you have to I take your your counsel your advice the biggest thing though is similar to other parts again I'm making this all up where town that you could always go after them you just keep getting hit over and over and over again if you just stand up once like and that's why it's only one it's one attorney and attorney you win that if I get I'm go to the bank right here's one mortgage do they're they're 20 back anyway right so how do you substanti help you actually win is it just the bully kind of threat which work for nicker or is it it's really a tough yeah first and foremost you can't use mortgage appraisals you have to have a tax a tax ready a for ready appraisal done um and then judge andreini is very experienced he's um semi-retired he walk back in because of the magnitude of appeals that were out there he the court doesn't like residential appeals to go to cour so that's why we've settled some of these but now I feel like we're being taken advantage of so um what's the magnitude of the of the transactions you feel like being taken advantage of how many right now she filed a soft number of probably 20 that we've settled within the last two years W A Lot the year before hundreds of thousand you started your concerns by saying the town but by doing this cross appeal action that the town in a you felt like a little bit of a precarious situation of being seen as going after correct that's that's my answer and I I appreciate that however I would just ask you though from a a purely Financial point of view if we were taking out a look if we we're looking to like neutralize a person who's bit and that person a movement that's a little bit you know disingenuous [Music] then I I think that it's just if I'm understanding you correctly it's better governance if we in fact you know take out oh I'm concerned about the political look and in fact like well we we need these taxes to run the town yes so you know I think we have to get it to to where the issue is we're going to spend our time on the tiny percentage of just commercial property and one they elephant in the room is the residential and we could let these sit for a year or two in tax court and see where the market goes but then you know we're we're going to put ourselves back into the position that we were in when I started when I started there was like 135 Parcels that were under appeal not just beers it sounds like it's less the person the the resident you and me and more Joe like the actual lawyer law keep on filing yeah I I don't think you don't take this the wrong way I don't think you framed it really the right way with the whole issue of of going after a resident I don't think that's the issue I think this is a matter of fairness yes and that's what I try if we've got 15 or 20 people that expect that they're not going to pay their fair share like everybody else is paying well then I think you have to deal with that in a manner that make sure they pay the fair share as all their neighbors are I had a similar situation with an attorney another capacity where they would file all kinds of litigation because typically the county in that particular case would over s um so the county uh officials decided that we're going to take a stand we're not going to settle anything well that's straightened it out one or two cases yes and they don't in that case they want to put the time in and money to go to trial yeah and and my experience well not my personal experience but speaking with others about this one attorney I think that if we tell her we're going to court and we say let your clients know we want appraisals and we're going to follow through with this she might start to see the light but I just how many houses are there in what uh houses we have 4805 line items I'd say probably 4,200 of them are hous how many of them go to appeals every year right now I'm down to less than 100 okay so I think it sounds to me like the council is saying you need to pursue this situation to make sure it's B for all the taxers and that's explain when people come in an appeal and they're they're at me about the appeal and I said well how do you feel now your R and your neighbor if they appealing feels the same way and when I'm fighting you I'm actually fighting on their behalf and when I'm against you I'm on their behalf so it's just right you gota you gotta try and do that be fa for so you need to enforce that okay if I can just uh indulge I I get with the department heads uh yesterday email communication with them night of time and what I've asked for them to do is to sort of look at functionality of their department remove the constraints of statutory and reg obligation and then advise the council what would be their priorities how sort of thinking outside of the bxs what are their priorities and how would they get to their goals what would they need to get there tools equipment Staffing what have you um with the goal of making a a the offerings of their departments you know available online so that people can access stuff Comm need to their home uh or you know how how do we sort minimize the cost in burrow funding and they have the ability Rel so Jeff is own point and I I'll ask him if he has if he wants to answer any of that but this is an example of the Cross appeals that would protect the B receiving the revenue we have just the $30 million that was realized equ Wass out to a dollar that then is available for Revenue as we get into sity appr so Jeff yeah as far as the the software and the online stuff um Bergen County supplies our software they pay for it they pay for the licensing the mod 4 that I use um that is a program I'm required to use um so I as far as software to do my job that's covered they pay for that um I know that in the meeting we were speaking about du pilot um I believe in the past I've looked at that the modules they offer for assessing is for um 200 foot lists uh putting some of our um deduction forms and things like that on the on a website we have that already I believe Omar worked on digitizing that so that you could fill them out online and they would get mailed directly to us um so for my capacity at this moment um the website's doing that already for me and the software and a laptop is provided by the county um functional with that um for whatever reason I have to be own functional on my laptop as well um we have employee access for email through website um my Department's a little different in that the county handles a lot of what I do so in that effect um there are probably small things on the pilot that I could use most of it's already available to me um going forward though um there is a new program which I need to further educate myself about digitized tax maps um it's an expensive program U what does expensive mean I've been told anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 a page for tax map we have 37 Pages wait a minute $5,000 a page yes because what it does is it red do the entire tax map it digitizes it it would overlay it um with satellite so it would help DPW it would help building so that you could um just go to the website and click on different tabs and you would have the improvements you would have easements you would have lot lines how many pages do you have 7 so it's a it's a $200,000 project yeah it's not something that needs to be done it's just something looking forward that's it no Pro GSI it's attached to GSI it's something that you can do through the city submit to the city because every so many years we need to get our tax maps um authenticated by St do it eliminate this $10,000 per year expense on tax it would actually help that because once this is done the yearly updates or by-ear updates that I do they would be enacted quicker cheaper and easier which's cheaper that I don't know that's why I said I have to educate myself for maybe we're already paying for it to John's Point go ahead know and you would have to do yes it would be something we would have to bit out we would have an engineering firm come whether it would be ours that we have or somebody else and they would you know verify all the lot lines and and mesh that into the system so the 200,000 hours would be a one time set up implementation yes and then there's a maintenance cost we find out what that main that's right okay we were talking about it this year at the league we were talking about it this year at the league it's something that I want to look into you're asking Forward Thinking yes so it's just something that I figured I would goow out there is there any software that Michael's using in the DPW or Bob is using in the building department that has modules that already do this sort of thing that we come and add-on have we have you talked to both of the gentleman about that I not but from the program that I went through at the League this is a new a new system that you're using um it's one that the state is starting to implement it's not a required thing it's just something to make lives easier going forward building department already is doing their stand of yes how how this it's similar to that um they showed a demonstration like I said I need to look into this further it's not something I'm I'm asking for um but they showed a demonstration where they took the GSI and then they took a tax map and they overlay them to the best that they could and lines were off by a little bit um the the scale whether it's 1100 on your GSI map and 11 100 on your tax map they weren't matching up this is something that would incorporate everything into one document it would be different layers if anybody's familiar with CAD Auto or anything like that it would be different layers that you could add and remove so that you could see everything layered on top of each other or only one thing that you wanted to say and Jeff if we did that that would aut be available public faing yes it would see everything well it would be helping really the real estate market it would help real estate it would help residents that's you know it wouldn't take the place of a survey but if people had surveying questions they could go to the website look at their leads and Bs service this goes to the thing that we've been talking about each time which is every department has to be looking at how do we do things more efficiently stop doing things that we just historically been doing a great example and this sounds like it'll pay for itself right yeah this is something I would say maybe two years three years out but it's just something I wanted to bring to the port Club something that once it's done you can U charge people for that I don't think so but I like I said I would look into I could look into that it's just something it would be like right now we have our digital pack I use quotes because it's just a PDF that we put on this is something where you can actually interact with zoom in zoom out you know if you click on Tab one you have blue lines around your property if you click on tab two you'll see a red line where the easement is if you click on tab three you'll see the outline of the building that's on I just think that um yeah you're getting a service it's not it's not an official survey I can't do it I do on Zs right I can see the same thing on Z yeah an example of of charging could potentially be if there's layers to what off so if you had a basic digitized thing that was available public Bas pre that and if there were level layers that you pay for incremental and that's just we research but I'd like to thank Jeff this was relatively uh very new put on him and he's the first one first Department that's not tied to separate funding source to have those questions asked that the bar and why well well it's just one $300 chair want $300 chair I think it's one we get two or three if we make two or three enemies go away all right any more questions for Jeff you thank you so much really welcome you did a great job thank you enjoy the rest of your days oh yes and keep us posted on that process the appeal or the map the court the court I'll I'll talk to the attorney I'll talk to the attorney um there is something called the freeze where we have to await two years I have to ask him if because they don't if they file an appeal they don't have to wait two years obviously she's refiling them every single year I'm hoping that that was available on both sides so if not we have to wait till next year but as long as everybody's going to know then I'll just proceed okay thank you thank you all dur your weekend thank you we have time for a two and a half minute break he Michael thank you for coming in morning I hear you stay for the capital budget discussion also two hours 25,000 sorry 10 minutes early you know I know we my budget and I [Music] saw welcome committee Z so years there's a line me find for line that what you're talking as long as I'll out it is I heard I just that's great as long as you can find it all the all the stuff year celebration as long as you see the number too much so I can it dude on time on budget you should totally run for mayor okay ladies and gentlemen you ready inside J come to and the I see it in your commentary find solve okay ready now you think anyway okay Michael sorry good morning great morning all right Michael you know our two new council members uh John I've met Jamie I just met yeah introductions being over ahead tell us your Us's on all right guys why don't you give your Nar we'll start um operating uh you all got my justifications um the streets and Roads obviously bottom tells it increases and decreases it's a 0% increase in my roads operating any of those pluses were minus out by we don't need anymore um recycling uh or increases uh there there's no telling what we're going to be spending on recycling for month to month goes up and down mostly up as of August of 2022 we were still being paid we're getting paid for our recy since then it's been nothing but pay but how much how much were we getting paid that uh it all hold on a second recycling should the conversation the conversation about recycling should be what's the degree about our loss every year not about what we're getting right so it used to be everybody used to take Plastics one through seven you would get paid on all of that that's gone the way the DOTA now 125 only and they really don't want to pay for it we were getting in 2022 January 2022 we were getting paid $35 a ton for paper and we were paying 564 a ton I'm sorry $42 a ton for Co the paper you make more on the paper wait let's rephrase that we lose Less on the paper we don't make money on any of this Point yes but back then before you get far we have the three separate the three separate sections is there anything that we can do all the is in one report that that would be my no no but I mean you know with I don't know coming yeah yeah want to make it sub within public work one that that would be something that Susan would have to spearhead because all of these account the ledgers and stuff are driven by her so we pull from them as need I mean the is good summar public books and Su all I think I think they have to stay as they are charted accounts of course but I think what you're looking at isal Julie John um so I just wanted to say m I know we spoke about a little bit of environmental commission when I learned about Atlantic Coast Recycling now opening back up can you just give everyone that um quick overview of what we've been doing since that fire right so well I guess it it's 2020 or 20 earlier 2021 our regular vendor in bade had a catastrophic fire Clos down we no longer dump there so they worked with us and got us alternative dumping sites which turned out to be newerk New Jersey City um so we have to drive now every day that we recycle out to either nework for the paper Jersey City I'm sorry the pay with the we had increased toll money that we never had to pay before because 21 was at py Road for for Frey um they are opening up they were shooting for March March I but yeah I I don't they sent something out last month I it's going to be any any day now but again and it's been the you know the fishing line hey when we open back up numbers are going to get better but nobody knows nobody knows but but it really it should and they are right you would hope you know and then that's the one we and that's why there's a decrease in the in the costs for the recycling now because they're going to be opening up that place John go ahead I have a question I'm just curious I'm not particularly bright so asking about when you're saying the paper and marks firy not making money versus recycling what are we actually talking about these are all net outbound costs right we used to get paid well that's what I'm wondering nobody wants to buy this stuff China stopped buying it in 2017 yeah all Market kind of fabulous what kind of fabulous sell your pretty much before you got on Council we made money um so we're hoping to to be able to cut that and that's one of my you know as I spoke with Dave who said you know get some goals and objectives that's one of my goals is to reach out now when they open back up we're going to see where we're at and then we can reach out you know work with them we don't have a contract it's it's not it's not a requirement we can take it pretty much wherever we want so then we once they're back settled and figure out what they're doing if it's not amendable to us we'll just start looking elsewhere right maybe we'll go back down to Jersey City if it's going to offset the cost the wear and can of the truck but probably not I've got some numbers here that are that are you know a little eye open as far as that what percentage of our recycling do you think winds up in the landfill at coant with fuel they you know like St level you depends on which channel you watch you know what feed you have on your phone I've seen anywhere from to 90% yeah you know the naysayers are 90% to 95% is going in Atlant you know all the glass all that St it's I think Clifton is the only town or city in New Jersey actually was paid for glass because they separate by color right they only want the clear they don't want the Amber they don't want the green so you again everything is Market we don't have a market to take it to you know we're stuck with who the vendors are to deal with so nobody I believe I don't know if they still do it but they were doing it when I was taking myyc places and they were the only ones in the state that we done how are we CL we sign we we're dual stream our comingled is Plastics one two and five and any glass uh tin stuff like that and then mixed paper is cardboard jum mail if you pull the envelopes out the windows out office paper I drove by one of your folks thinking this morning oh they were probably doing commercial yeah and dumpsters we sneak those in I just want to say just great job and sure everyone noticed pretty much we were down on salaries for DPW um just to keep everybody on their toes anduse people you know one of things I think we need to talk about as a council is where do we invest so again we spoke about how do we get as tight as we can and as efficient we can across every department and then actually add money to where we want to be I would tell you in six one of the places is that I think we should be adding is to the DPW so when we think DPW we think cleaning downtown more often we think cut I'm going to make all these up you know cutting more branches more often putting up more banners downtown more often putting I don't know what so again I want every Department to push down but I would tell you if I you know if we accidentally gave you another person would you feel that person could make it s cleaner cleaner you know prettier agreed but what our issue is right now is funding the position not funing but but filling the positions that are current to fun you have six V I have six V but again it's because the only reason would be either you know we're mean bosses or we don't pay them you're a pretty nice guy I'm pretty nice guy so when I say another person maybe the answer is raise it 10,000 the salary and that with get of the person yeah I don't want to get too far into it Dave and I we're going to talk about in clst session it's contract negotiation part of it Mike is constrained by the Collective argain Agreement as to what to and talking about some some modifications with that but the bottom line is yeah one of the reasons your all position is veg is the top scale may it may not be I to so talk about CL session but again to me this if I had three places I think would be one of those three places that again just want the parks prettier I want the banners up higher I want the trees trim better that's one my my gos and objectives Mike so if you if you know tomorrow you had all six of those vacancies filled would would that now you're at full strength that do sort of fulfill what Adam is suggesting or would you absolutely that's what I'm saying if we could fill the funded positions now I'm not looking for extra just yet I would okay since I've been here it's G four years now well what's the point looking for extra if we can't what's the factor qualified individuals will to pay to and pay relative to other towns um our tops our top end is very competitive but it takes you 11 years to get it I'm a new guy coming what's $41,000 yeah and that for head yeah $41,000 for person so why the hell would I come here why are not why are we not being attractive make I think this is why we're having this conversation nobody's taking the 11 year forward approach talk about yeah there I'll have more details on some some strategy postage great um so far of recycling again I would just want to finish that out here um recycling collection for all the time I implemented when I came here when say myself was uh holiday pickups back in the old days you just didn't get picked up you got skipped until two weeks later so now we we moved that around and we pick up regular schedule throughout the year some right somehow but that again that increases your overtime guys to do it and recycling center overtime which is just had been in in five years that's for my guys that work up there snow is a perfect time to look at it they come in on Monday and Tuesday when they're off those are off days they're get paid overtime some schol 12 15 hours and I think $1,500 increase um buildings and grounds over time again um because we're short staff and the way there were four members when I got here it was uh the maintenance supervisor and the three one man during the day and two men at night now we're running just three guys so 25% my Workforce hasn't been here since September of 2023 and his job description is what his job description was when I got here so we need to change that but something Dave and I have spoken about is we're looking for a little bit more of a polished more informed leader in that position so think that the salary scale may not so so generally speaking the your your the overtime that you're spending is still well below the the the cost of the six vacancies so whatever you're doing you're doing it right well so keep doing it yeah but what fals through the Cs is is the issue is and I keep saying R out nobody knows what I'm not doing right everybody sees what I am doing they don't see what I'm not doing that's the stuff that is going to come back and and that's we're trying to avoid so um solid waste that was contractual I think that was a really really smart move on counil part to move forward early on that contract we went up to 12% increase as opposed to the 50 and 60 that people yeah went from 895 to 1923 and we may be able to pull some that outside the cab you mention that yes I was going to ask is that the entire amount or is it just the increase formula that they allow you to pull out might not be the whole difference but we didn't do that last year so they said if you did any adjustments to the cap uh for the budget you can't do it again but we didn't have that one we had workers comp and and the liability insurance pulled out but not garbage so that will help us with that I would mention that the U the map that paid to bcua um that is set there was a SE charge that is set for January 1st through May 31st bcua has bids on the street that are due on March 8th and they plan to award uh by the end of March so we will then know the number the impact our budget U probably with deep day of March 11 Park but that is something that is going to potentially impact a sheet that came for bcua but they're not opening that's that was the SE charge that's jary 1 to May 31 this is for their next where they take where they send solid Bas so those bids are going to be open March 8 so I can find out talk to the director I probably find out as March 9th or more like so it could be a number because that could be up to like five six% historically they try and do the economy of scale they get a better deal um for instance right now it jumped to $864 whatever it is per ton whereas if you go outside of the bcua contract um it's $110 mon at at all these other locations if we go to a private place right we used to do for convenience when it was a little more we would go to m iner which is now iws and we don't do that anymore they're $110 a ton why would anybody go there convenience convenience our our collector contacted me to ask me when they changed they said all right now everybody has to go to a bcua approved every Bergen County Town has to go to a BCA bcua approved site and they only have you know they have whatever oh so if you if you're if you're like a contractor with construction debris you're going to go over to M drive because because you're doing it once or twice a month you're not getting the bcua contract price so why run but um so uh hopefully that's only going to be a few dollars per ton historically it has but just it's an unknown so hopefully it's just not any great shock uh so I mean again our our our operating budget I mean I to use the word cut if you're look at at cut my operating budget is not place to do it uh we did some quick you know back andac that the May's famous for saying um out of a milli 57,000 operating budget we had unspent in 2023 $9,000 that's at to 1% did not spend so if you're looking you know to take things out there's not much mean on the phone and again there's nothing to I don't think I really hope to say this year's Council not to take things out think it's just three questions that we continue to ask everybody what are your prior what what do the residents say they want to see more when they complain sorry when they get feedback with more right so that's one two that's what I get in my email feedback two we just have always done stuff that we don't need to be doing anymore really took a look at it let's just stop doing it and three things that we want to be doing how do we do the more efficiency you heard you were here right before the tax assessor there some cool uh digital stuff we could do I'm all for investing such that we're more efficient going forward so those are the three questions it's not about I hope this year is it's not about just postage really like 36 Cents you know we really need 36 Cents that's the waste of all yeah okay so so that's pretty much my operating if there's any questions I actually have uh my administrative assistant is viewing us today and uh if there's anything answer we can reach out Christine and she will answer operating if anybody got any question more questions for Michael I meaning V has to beity how long is that it is it's it's up and down yeah it's been up and down yeah I came on board in 2020 I had a full staff for one week and and and your it's down operational efficiency Improvement and SC G six on what how you Curr uh I'm authoriz 24 driver labor six form in the DPW and then uh the one other missing is 20% increase in your tax so John I think kind of the way to look at it if we were having this conversation a year ago Michael and I it's like we kind of behave in a matter of slow to higher you know in terms of making sure we're making price decision and U there was enough money for him to cover what was going on there was three vacancies with over but now because the economics that we already talked about has creeped up having I don't think that the spend on overtime versus the spend on 6 ftvs equates the same operational output oh I agree that's that's really old he's using it when he has to yeah I don't want to say that you we're doing day-to-day operations on over time because we're really not exactly some point everybody says I just don't feel like work you don't want that that exacerbates one of the big drivers and that was an increase that I did reest was overtime to accommodate special events or Council directed items so you know I I just a quick quick thing where um what's the number in there that was $220,000 we've been at 9 90,000 historically I since Co obviously got bln out of proportion um but uh we hisor with G do you have enough money in there for Council directed items um we we do it you do you have enough in there well that's that's part of the iny I'm saying is all right things like that is is all the events stuff that we never did that right so now you you have the you're asking for the amount of money you need to get that accomplished right without having to dip into uh salaries that that's increase of 20,000 okay yes so then on the other end that so what's the total 110,000 110 is the as so just put it in context if if you were to say we don't want to spend that kind of money overtime we hire somebody we have a whole you have you'd have $50,000 salary plus your health benefits fre me time pension cost SP all that that quickly comes up to about $100,000 and then you're not going to get the kind of productivity that he's going to need by all the Staffing to do that activity just with one at is that is that correct that that would be yeah again the unfunded positions make that I think the point I'm making is that the overtime you're you're it's more prudent for us to increase the overtime than to bring on an additional person to reduce the over time right wait say that one more time are we being more efficient with increasing the cost the Dos in over time use that P overtime for these counil directed EV as opposed to hiring a new in a new person go one ft is not going to satisfy the entire correct okay yes two different issues yes again if we could fill those positions and I hate to say you know they welcome the tenly but that Hess is on you um we we council's aware of you know the ins and outs of of the HR System it's been tough and I'm really count on you to get me out of yeah in my budg I'm addressing some of the HR stuff I was talking you know counsilman Adam brought up about you know the HR the entire HR function is just C got be able swim paper I think I think I think no Minds like some the big ticket items that you know the trucks and stuff you need to disc yeah capital I mean you want Capital first or you want well I I wanted to go to one that's going to impact the operating budget and it's a large issue that want to C about be aware of is that the we are facing some significant u u change of course with the way we collect leaves and Expos so there's a the state has uh basically implement a new uh permit process that that we not going to be able to be compliant with basically would require us to capture 100% of any storm work uh we have to design and build a facility around that but even if you get a two or three in ring event anything spills out violation you'd have to then take that Collective discharge and test it before you do something with it to see if it's contaminated so uh you know Mike has put forth a Mike has put forth a a number that is a problematic number of $224,000 just a mathematical solution of trucking out 16,000 cubic yards of leaves uh and he has some basis for doing that U my concern is I I want to rather than just automatically saying we're going to put that put over a million dollar uh structural impact in the budget that's only going to grow over over years let fully V out whether there are any options that could reduce that cost but isn't isn't uh and Andy hiet coming in April to give us different options yes and I talked to Andy yesterday so thank you for for reminding me to talk about that we're going to have a meeting Andy and Jamie and Joe on his staff together with uh uh with Mike and I I think the week of March 11 so sort of focus in on what maybe options what may not we we talk generally about you know if we were to rent a tub dinder or buy one would that be a solution um we we've explored to we go with the grinding on the on the actual collection apparatus I doesn't think that would work because it's going to slow the process down um significantly and and uh uh wouldn't be deficient um and you know we can look at other towns if there there's availability of the shareff service the latter is probably unlikely because the the permit is going to be so honorous and expensive that probably everybody out so we are I know that Susan one of her colleagues is using a private company that we have to see whether that whether they're still going to be viable in business to do something regulations we so and there also one other one of the solution which is a whole thought process that's completely different is that people shred their leaves and leave them onsite and then it will cost the town nothing but we on the extreme man we've started so you know through the newsletter we've started talking about that we're going to be talking about it in every newsletter and more communication get to not that we'll never get 100% of people doing that that's just not the way the world works but every little bit if 10% of people do it that's low as 10% of our course read mul leave it on site icious Le FL I appreciate being picked up in the street I do it constantly right because I'm that I'm the opposite guy you're that guy I'm absolutely that guy but the question is and I hate to ask this question because it's hurting myself but can we also push the onus to removal to the homeown I.E I'm paying my landscaper more to extract it I mean that that's a hey look tax go you can shred your own or you can do this give the optionality to the homeowner I hate to pay more for but I will if it's something better Taxas it's easier than set or we could give maybe an in in some way for the council's U so there's no surprises a the budget Mike get put in a request of 224,000 I put a place know at 124,000 until we have these lar discussions and revisit this before your final document done so that may need to be adjusted but I'm I'm hopeful that we come up with some options that we not just you know in a process where we shipping essentially air yeah you compress and comp so your point David was just as he's about to explain the other parts is we need to keep in mind there's there's he put the cost to that in previous years has been 20,000 25,000 that cost now could potentially bu 224,000 got so it's so okay yes so you know one of the things people short and you're about to layer this off that's a very bad storm well we we' picked up the leaves with the man power we have picking up the leaves is not my like big issue again we don't have the equipment and it's not it's not a viable solution to shred them as we're picking them up the machines will do that to a point they hold they hold so little and it's not efficient we're going to be picking leaves up in June so you got to get them done in that in that window um the U shared certain and Dave and I have had this conversation in the short time that he's been here I've already reached out to other towns as far as shared services I've reached out to leasing companies about leasing our own trucks and trailers so that we reduce the cost of the removal and do it ourselves um and other and I P at least four locations for prices for what they would charges to and what what feedback you getting um our numbers are spoton U we said it was anywhere between 11 and $14 a yard to truck it out and I've gotten two quotes one is 13 and change per yard for them to truck it um the other one was $12 a yard for them to truck it uh the 13 something offered 9.95 a yard if we bring it to them which brings it but so that's 159,000 then we're in our own trucking business right right well 159,000 but now i' I I got it's going to be if we rented two tractors it's $133,000 for season and then I don't know what the trailers are yet because they haven't gotten back so you know just just so that everyone you know kind of gets the broad picture so when we when Michael and the team turn all the leaves over over there for X number of months we're basically turning all these leaves into top soil which is like as rich soil as you can possibly get you know and so if we can do this educational thing and talk about the benefits of keeping it on your I mean I think it will because people don't know the leaves just disappear and they go into heaven right nobody really and why would they care where they go to right I know that again it all came down to you have to have a market everything we do that we collect is Market driven if I don't have people to sell it to and it doesn't it's a mve point now because DP is not know El do it right you know they used to do that down there you know 40 years ago when we had whatever 11 guys working at Davis Johnson Park this was a regular occurance they would take those leaves make soil spread it all around town we can't do any we actually have some of the Machinery that's necessary to do it what can we do it D is not goingon to let us that's the whole PR of this is that they're changing the rules as so it's basically an unfunded State mandate that that is going to force you to put a quar million dollars stru budget we can't come up one of the players that I did talk to basically said he goes you know the best thing you can do as a as a municipality is to get together with some other municipalities go to the and plead your case so this is this is crazy I mean other town I live in burfield they paid $225,000 this year to take out 15,000 tons um you know that's just how some towns done it for historically for years we we had the the site we bought the equipment early on and were able to you know we benefited as as a community from that for many many years it's just now they're they're pulling the rug out from it's t was uh 14 the three towns I reached out Bergenfield Tina and Eng Cliffs and that's where we came up with that 11 to $14 uh PR y cost for 2023 now I'm asking guys for quotes for 202 for T has a site and they're closing T does not have a site they have a temporary site which they they are allowed to use for three months out of the Year October November December has to be emptied out every single week they pay an re or why can't we do that to shred to Red doce Al IR they're not going to let us BP will not let you it's the leap anything that falls is is the Leake going into the ground I don't know exactly again this affects us because we have a class B permit to compost Bergenfield doesn't have a class B T NE doesn't have it Ood CS doesn't have it again they just truck it out I don't know how they're affected by this ruling I don't know and Andy when I asked them isn't sure if everybody's going to be able to get a thre Monon exemption and that's what we're going to ask him when we meet on launch right um but so it's a fluid situation that I'm I'm hopeful that we could figure something now but I I pick up on on Mike's Point you know it's say if we can come up with a solution and say this temporary permit is what we need the ha so we're not looking at $224,000 in cost you know that's where then the mayor could meet with the legislative delegation or you get into uh the DMP Commissioners off this you're going to get if you go DMP from the bottom up going get to now and know no to change this because it affects virtually every this power you really got to start with commissioner office and see if you can work work on policy that way I just got to throw in that three-month permit we would still cost us $245,000 it's that that week that just allows us to collect them from the roads have a spot to dump them so the permit is $225,000 no the out talking about is maybe could grind itative we not shipping out the air but again I think that's that's the part of where you're breaking things down right but that's but that's the position of getting to the commissioner of uh DP to see if we can get some Rel that way um to tie in further down some of our our goals and objectives the new compact which is on its way um it's been ordered look for installation sometime probably by May hopefully we here that was for recycling um what we plan to do is to cut down on the wear and tear on the vehicles the tires that we I said $10,000 tire repairs not not including cost of new tires last year what we're doing is having a shoot built on it we're going to be able to collect our routes dump here as opposed to sending the trucks every day out on the road to to dump it uh industry standard is is anywhere from 3 to1 to 7 to one when you compact um we're going to have to see where the happy spot is there because if we compact too far and the stuff will come out at the dump we're going to get trouble so that's going to be a learning curve and we're looking minimum to be able to get um let's see at least a week's worth of recycling into a box sits there go do the following week put that in there then send the truck to dump once as opposed to dump four times and what budget have you done that was that last year two been in there since it's the one ordinance I've been holding on to 2015 wow really save money it's a good it's a good one in here but that kind of future planning really helps now but 2015 is quite a while back on it is the fact that at the leaf site as we're talking about pumping air want to say we can do it but if we were to compact the leaves we'd be reducing our you know getting more tank for clock in 100 yard walking Flor you're going to get more product in but again that would have to be worked out how you know logistic we would do we have time on right it's not a match L it's just let's make sure we're looking at all all the options so you've got many challenges salt Le St he has the easiest job so far that's three what's next where go where could you give the council an update on uh the Richard Street pumping station uh Richard Street Pump Station the generator is completed installed what is the Richard Street Pump Station Richard Street pump station is on it's actually load located on jwi Port um and it collects uh 600 or so plus or minus houses sewage from tenly plus preskill and Bergenfield pump a little bit in there and um it's a forest main basically goes into a big pit pipes out into our sewer lines um you have an emergency generator sto Myas in 2020 knocked our generator out burned it out and it was a we finally got the generator back we've we've been renting a generator since 2020 John if you really want to get a sense of it you need to be up there during a rainstorm about 1: a.m. at P has died got there the mayor got there he all smiles yeah when I asked him to come back he didn't call and then the rental will go away yes so then that's that's Again part of our our cost we're we no longer have to pay the 20,000 I'm sorry why it everything it's government and and anybody that's new on the council I it's government and moves slow no matter what a lot of this equipment also John you a question things are made to order yeah I mean a fire truck a new fire truck is a two-year cycle from the time the council approves it it's two years before it shows up here our tree truck Isle on delivery yeah go ahead Julie have a question so I just wanted to ask as I know he was the pump with did you want talk about Capital now you know anything specific I know are we ready for that yet what are the questions we have for that's always such big item and just to finish off on the pum station we still have trading on oh he's staying to the capital right no that's what I me um oh we have a training anyway on the new generator on March 5th we'll be able to pay that bill it's going to be on the bill list for Tuesday night Susan's going to hold a check in so we make sure that all the everything's taken care of on that but outstanding on that ordinance is still um fencing because we need now the generator is now outside it used to be on an interior enclosure now outside so we need to fence it in um and uh we've had also we've had problems with neighbors approaching on propit so is that going to read the noise complaints the outside um we hope I mean we still had noise we're hoping not and again we're going to fence it in we're put slacks in so you can't see through and we're also going to do uh because the neighbors concerned we're going to do some plates around the outside I first thing you worried about was the noise what happened with the temporary generator at the high school yeah that is the noise that they'll be exposed to only can you talk a little bit about the PSC gas line replacement in still in school district that we Yep they're starting Mondays they started FR well well they said they were starting Monday I heard they had trucks and up on they were up onay drive maybe yeah they were starting McKay they came from Englewood now they're starting McKay drive and working down they going to do McKay drive then nickak Road and they're dropping down on I don't know Oak Avenue and it's replacement and or upgrading of gas facilities and this is just the tip of the iceberg they're starting there they got to go through the H and they're replacing uh if you're in they if you have a gas meter inside your house they're taking it and putting them outside your house and they're replacing two and a half miles of roads in con Junction they well it's worked out yeah we we're right they're not required to do the whole road if they only if they only dig on one side technically they only have to well what we do is is in conjunction with our road program and the engineer we meet in the middle we say okay we'll pave this road you pave that road all all the amounts come together at the end and we work together with them so you don't have the strike through and there's also issues with you know they dig they dig whole they dig the trench on Monday they spend all week doing their work and they've done the follow foll Monday that doesn't mean they're going to do the permanent Road replacement right away because when you dig trenches they settle right right so we may wait a season to you know to do the real finishing of the roads so so so you guys got to be ready like war is saying about for the beback you're going to get feedback you have to that no but we were told and that's actually what I wanted to say I'm not sure if you knew this but at the last meeting the February 13th uh meeting uh the bureau engineer said it we if if we get any calls about the road send it to him because he's very intimately aware so I don't know if you were told that but if it comes to DPW send it to him that's what he said and and again Christine's on she's probably gonna hit me in the head when she sees me I inform my staff because we answer 80 phone calls 90 phone calls a day so depending on what time of year it is and we're gonna get Dr those PA clerk's office will receive uh Dave's office is going to get them if my staff knows what's going on we're going to tell them there I'm not you're not going to forward yeah try you try not to just say hey because you give people to run around and it just AG oh yeah that's true but he is a resource yeah absolutely if if they're not happy with my staff's answer then okay we'll give you to the engineer here and and the the streets that are affected by the DC work or on the Bor website our own letters PNG no we just we put up PSC and G's communication yeah right three names and explains what's going on she's saying as a resident she received yeah of course so did I yeah you so it's it's been happening now every Friday May and I are getting the update for the next two to three week snapshot engy and then we putting that up on the website so there's there's even extra okay um so so uh another goal Susan and I have been working pretty much since I got here on closing out old ordinances the compact perfect ex 2015 money that were nine years later than finally bought the books she's closed a lot by herself but that's one of the things we want to continue to do I know I have capital projects that you guys have funded since I've been here that are still not included that's another you know bonus is on us to get that done some of them are in this building and it's going to make for interestes in schedule Michael you should explain like some of the examples like with the windows and then the supply issues that happened too the window so expensive yeah I know yeah so yeah we put at one point somebody put in $20,000 for Windows for bar walles each window we got through through State contract we got prices these guys want almost $5,000 for a window like that yeah I think we'll keep the windows we have well that's what we're doing now is we have other contractors I'm just gonna bring a guy in and say here take this window apart show me exactly what you need to do to do this and we're going to start the clerk's office because that's a safety issue also we have Windows that don't open that's an issue so we're going to start the clerk's office and uh you know have them pull one apart and then we're going to get an actual cost when it's going to be and then we'll use the rest of whatever's funded to do those and then moving forward will any other that need to be replaced will have a solid basis but you're beholding the state Contra no we're not that's but but we reach out to State contractors first because uh yeah other you don't have to draw B specs you're saving money on not having an engineer prepare a bid spec for you or or or hiring a bid R company John it's it's not necessarily we're using State contractors it's it's if they if their own State contract it's a it's a a quicker resolution and we will enjoy the rates that have been negotiated but we don't have to do the other fun end it's faster but you're five grand window for the but in theory that's already econom we if we did our own our bid you're still going to pay for buing wage and you make $9,000 you can do that exercise on you know and that's something where unfor you and I think the same I'll do it right two grand generally the state contracts are are more economical to begin yeah and then if you don't go into State contract and go out or something like that um you have to sometimes the state will require and we haven't had the to show the savings of not doing all because you're taking away the econom is a scale for everybody else you're just one last question where are we with the um that oil separated situation in the garage um as per the engineering meeting on Wednesday uh they're waiting I think for a check they need a check for $1,100 to uh register the tank with DP we have to give a check and yes for something there's a there's a form that we signed send everything to so that that'll start that running that's uh we have a oil water separator that was abandoned many many years ago the tank is still on the ground um in order for us to wash trucks um anything except salt like we're allowed to wash off Salt residue after storms but technically washing our vehicles we're not allowed to do unless we have a separation so we in the building when it was built they have linear drains there was this tank was supposed to catch the the oil the water system but it's technically not working correctly hav't been cited but something we're trying to rectify or becomes an issue but then this tank came weed its ugly head so if you have a tank in the ground everybody's familiar familiar D gets involved now you have to test the soil it's so our original quote I think for the pass through system that we wanted to install was 120,000 maybe um that contractor was just going to dig that tank up and take it out because it was unregulated well sure enough we looked into it it's a regulated tank and now the number double boost so we put away $300,000 just in case there's proba an insurance policy that we did have had or have perspectively the tank was lost to history yeah one day there was an inspector here from the DP it was actually the right to know inspector okay he was they were hanging out whatever smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee and said what is that pipe coming out the top of the building and oh I don't know I was so 60 years ago someone put that tank in the ground and lost the history like I said the tank itself had nothing in it so they the pipe in the ground so they went over to look and they we discovered this so we we can't do anything with that technically it's it's still if we have to we have to but again we haven't been cited for it we're trying to get out in front of it so we right now that money is still in the account once this tank gets sett then we can move forward with with upgrading the system it's kind of like your question about what is it it's like it's kind of like a in a restaurant when you have restaurant what is it where where are we at like are we putting that in tank the tank that part needs to get taken care of before we do anything there IR being allowed to wash the salt off the vehicles yeah s it's just super this is a kind of question for the question you're not wrong you had um there was a $33,000 increase for the Rose Garden n Gardener uh in there I remember last time talk though that the guy wasn't even returning you know calls do we know that that's the price that's you know to be get y he he sent his uh proposal for this year and it's it's he's basically raising this price 3% per year Council at prior to my coming off year Council had hired this guy to rejuvenate the rose gard and it's funny because Christine brought it up to me this morning she mik I'm just thinking about things that we do that should you know that we do every year and she goes the rose G yes we do that every year because we've done it every year since I've been here but problem being that is what happens is they paid 25 years ago to have somebody revamp the garden it came out fabulously he went away it went to see nobody is a rose expert on my staff and and the rose buddies who were the volunteers that that help take care of it are not experts know and so yeah so so there's been $150,000 for this the last 10 15 years I think 20,000 year1 I was say that and since I've been here wee because of the bething right and now it's 33,000 a year and it's a it's a difficult position we're all in because if we did let it go uh that would be noticed so part We R the GJ pict how much we get $33,000 a year for a piece of a piece of a piece of a piece of Davis Johnson $2000 oh the that it was like two G last year it's 233 expense so you're not even covering 10% on the I unfortunately don't have my phone otherwise I text Christine and ask if she can answer the question whatever all right but that's one of those driving factors that things that we do all the time but if we stop doing it enormously unpopular as well and then within five years we're GNA spend that money why do you need such a degree of expertise roses are pickle but like also all right let's take whoever wants to talk about roses could stay here let's take a five minute break and we're going to move on to Capital you good with that talk o you talk about Ros my guys do easier maintain I mean it's a zero all du respect to the if if it wasn't for that team of the Ro's buddies that super they don't help us soer to do what uh well car accidents vandalism uh slipping Falls just to monitor the yeah so with the um does the chief know and is that in he be doing a bundle as know a camera order is this in his it's not in his no this up me but I I will be utilizing his yes this was just this was in a previous budget and and yeah thank you're [Music] onar you guys Nar Capital where is that the first thing on theal budget for Public Works isul load for $110,000 no no we're looking at9 in the star in capital with DPW so okay sorry jumping I don't have yours can we uh talk about the cameras super quick those were fed use them for Gard andwhere and now put back use somewhere else okay he's on beach9 100% on this okay that's I just so Susan I to make sure that oh no um I just want to make sure that MoneyWise you know as we've been in contact that since the chief is packaging all the camera order bundling the camera order that saves US money are these DPW camera orders in that or is he doing I just don't want to this was separate but again I'm using the same vendor so I'll just touch B with she to make sure that I get my my stuff involved right but but not because the chief's cameras get tied up with B County Prosecutors you don't want to be tied up with of the installations make sure I used him to do repairs at the DPW building and he's extremely reasonable okay I just wanted to make sure we weren't pay more because I know that the the there two projects understand but I know that the chief was talking about right two different initial costs and bids and all that because the chief was better at this this year he said that because now that he's done it before team Center he knows what to do so I just wanted to make that the police I know the I know the police aren't here yet but but their cameras is that for what is that meant to be for the commer those are the play where the commers that go up in different streets so we're we're putting it out in in the in in the public oh yeah of course yeah and and that because we've never discussed that so just I just wanted to yeah right he's expanding I think that should be brought up that we're expanding ceras watch yes because I think the community want to know you know what the story is to respond about it before like I said toit basically safety BS car acents which we have all kind of property damage things like that around thew building and they will be beam to the BPW my system so that I can keep an eye on what's going on 20,000 um all right number two DPW replace top KCK 68 forget about the word top KCK I should have taken that out that's the type of truck that we're replacing we're not replacing it with another one a lot of this stuff you guys have seen before you know it is what it is we we do what we can so this is uh one of our plow trucks it doesn't do much else but plow um its replacement would be uh stripped down so to speak we're not going to you know we're not going to put a hook lift on it and all that other stuff so we're going to save some money these are Place uh the current truck that we have out there is just not worthy anymore having trouble getting parts for so these they t- to a point yes to a point I'm I'm getting away from buying any more hooklifts the hooklifts is the big it's a it's an expense we don't need we have enough hooklets we have you know four hooklets right now we have two rolloffs we don't need any more I don't have enough drivers to put all them on the road same time any so you're going to be more dump truck type which one black beds or you know I even strip them down just put the Su on it aling we should there's four trucks that you're asking for okay if you could help us go from number one to number four such that when we look at the broader budget we understand what best Sterling is out [Music] just so you know the Sterling is already outling is already does that number eight is out as removed yes the recommended yeah it's not recommended so there's three to Adam's question there's three that um so he's already taking one out all right so that is a serious recommendation the top there the uh truck 68 need to be replaced which what top is that's that 350 okay so that's number one all right next is the 1987 Mac hacker truck 350 number two uh what you guys keep saying 350 okay I'm sorry you said 350 I'm thinking F350 well I don't know the model the dollar I'm sorry that's why I said no um then you have a dump truck and an articulated load uh you guys are jumping around on me um my next is yeah if we just go through mine uh looking at his yeah my I only had three trucks in purchase three trucks three and one was REM by actually in order in the narrative well sorry maybe so an articulated loader you're not cool calling a truck but it's over $100,000 yes okay yeah um so the Mac Packer truck again it's a 1987 it doesn't always a nickel um we still use it for leaves it's uh you know it still rolls but same thing it becomes a question of getting for them everything now is uh drive by wire computers and you know getting mechanical parts are tougher and tougher and not goes on given that this has been on the road since 1987 it suggested maybe a used market for some of these things and not for nothing we bought it us 87 no after that it's got a history that's St so is it possible to stru was a 350 do it in uh you know different part um is it possible yes and but it becomes you know the gamble of yeah I I worked in another town we bought a CR carrier garbage truck for $50,000 from another barel and it was the worse $50,000 they sold yeah it cost us you 200 at the end of the day but is it possible yes is it possible sometimes to utilize different B you'll see that um in my number four in my narrative replace the truck body on 617 the truck itself is in great shape even though it's 21 years of age the body is rotten off let's get the body off of it let's redo it you know we'll get another 10 years at least out of this Tru so I know that the for F150 is electrified is any of uh are any of these TRS available electric I mean I remember Le municipality being impressed with high the the Packer truck the Packer truck is available electric but uh Bergenfield was supposed to get two of them uh four years ago five years ago they put money aside couldn't get the delivery of them and now the prices have jumped $100,000 and the vendor is looking for them to pay the difference so they're still fighting for uh supply and demand Jersey City's got I wouldn't uh charging we have charging but we have charging for downtown charging charging for the trucks are going to be different than for cars yeah yeah I know but you get but that's not that that's not a challenge for us as we've spoken Charing putting it into the to the side of the building and then we put in like two I don't know I'm sure the electric cost is going to exceed $400,000 for the unit itself as far as the charger for it go I'm not sure maintenance plus are not well vered electric vehicles owning any you don't want to be subject to blackouts the time you need these trucks are bad times the time that you're more susceptible to having a down electrical event orain oh I I think that's unlikely that I mean when we're trying they would be brought in at night and charged eeve and I wake up in snowstorms and my garage power out I'm screwed yeah I I I don't mean I have an EV as well I've never I'm surprised that for the purposes of this one I would just say that yeah the number that I have for this is not it's guaranteed $100,000 JC has you're yeah but we are always told by the emergency vehicles that were never allowed to so a packer a truck Packer charge snow a packer just a garbage truck it's a garbage truck Gage truck but it's a recycling we don't do garbage it's a recycling truck it looks like a garbage truck right and so so so back to my point is you're saying it is available as an elector it's not an emergency vehicle um but you don't have those numbers I don't have e numbers no I did not I I would be interested in him at least finding out what you get a number sure but the number is because we know other communities are doing it not okay and also the the availability of the unit yeah again I you know the bigger the bigger cities will get them wa for small um now I can ask that question but again uh there's more that goes into it than just buying the TR promise me I was thinking I see the man getting a fleet of Tesla uh so number four I kind of we're just replacing the body on number five on my list DPW garage tool purchase basically we have a mechanic shop is on one side of the yard and on the other side of yard we have 16 Bays where we do we have benches we do chains we do uh tires if we have to fueling the trucks minor repairs and things we just need some tools on the other side so you're not oh forgot the half inch ratchet I got to walk across the yard and go get another one let's put a tool box in here we can just reach in here and get it um you have a question just kind of you're trying to get we we've done this for purchase in previous years we have done tool purchases for the mechanical this is the other side of and and that's I mean that comes up there's going to be more in here that you're going to see garage you know um things break things go bad you know what I mean no no of course there's constant I get that yeah now this is a separate other side of the yard um new climber for froggy Park this had gotten kicked around last year when we had replace the spinner um so we' got a price on this and Jamie Cannon says there's room in the park I say there's room in the park that's a that's for discussion we want to put that in uh take that of open space um you need to appr appropriate says you need to appropriate that into the capit talking about the the frogy park uh no let's go in open space so so that has to go you will appropriate that into this budget you put it in the budget but then we don't put put it into Capital we could put it into Capital but for that amount of money we're just going to pull it right from open space and by the way I looked up open space we have 3.1 mil good that's good so for the $188,000 then do we need need to do ordinances on that after the budget is done or resolution um I could do for 20 something thousand 20 something I could just do a resolution because now the orders are inside anything under so does that have to be done after budget's approved tomorrow you could do it at any time because the money is there so we an ordinates two readings we'll take yeah let's get it done right go ahead M up to number seven that's the articulated motor again it's a midsize unit um it's smaller than anything that we currently have at DPW we get traffic trailer deliveries regularly this is one of the reasons we get fors on a big loader and we need two guys you know an operator and somebody watching them because Tru the loader is so big you can't see the tips of the um ORS so just for moving equipment around in the yard um and it's a multi-purpose we're uh forget did I put down what we're getting on there no various attachments there's over a 100 attachments that we can purchase eventually put this on uh Clarkstown New York uses them they love them uh I know some private companies that we have relationships with that have bought one and two of them because they're whoose fight over them uh you can use them for tree workor you can use them for Parks you can use them for snow U you know small uh concrete job but you know it's got a hundred different uses so again as opposed to rolling out with a a back ho or an existing Mador which is overkill so uh the Sterling dump came off the list um ground cover mats number nine on my list um so we can use those in the Parks and on the tree truck basically the tree truck is my main concern sometimes we have to get in on people's front Lawns to facilitate removals things like that as opposed to Rolling in there crushing their their front lawn sidewalks whatever you put these mats down they attenuate the weight and you don't get the damage to the properties you lay them down they're basically size of plywood 4 by eight sheets they go underneath the wheels we back in set up do what we have to do we roll back in I just have a question because I know obviously prices go up every year but I know I've been on the council when and we've said okay where the department isn't going to get all of the trucks that they require is that the type of thing this year where I use saw emergency ins situations it's not an emergency I mean if I looked at all this it's my capital it's it's a it's a request list that of things that would help us to work more efficiently or replace aging equipment so I mean none of it would count as an emergency there's an emergency I'd be like we've got to do it not this is all subject to your you know yeah have Truck Yeah top top K that's no longer made yeah it's just you know some more equipment as aging you guys gave us a new Packer truck last year the budget we haven't able tol it yet um but we didn't give it to you the resident did yeah and that was in 1986 right so now there's 198 said we going you know um but again we use these things for Myriad different uses we pick up this the biggest with Packer trucks that and recycle so uh what my next thermoplastic line striping that's that's something I really would put in there um we have paint machines that put down latex paint with glass beads and it's it's really hot when we put it down six eight nine months later maybe a blow situation later it's not shiny and new like it used to be thermoplast is they actually bring a company in and they they put it all together it's almost like a glue up it stays bright and and then so and we have it on our thing to do I know last season for down the resid were for clear crosswalks and you said you know once the weather gets better it back then we'll do it this we'll jump in there but but again these are some of the things where um the mayor board up in the engineering meeting on Wednesday like uh the intersection that's bad I wouldn't throw thermal striping down there if we're gonna have to dig up that intersection well are we doing that this year by the way that's a disaster over there that wasn't in our original oh so if you're doing more roadways yeah I mean it depends again and you guys know that if the B if the bids come in good for the asphalt right we'll have money left over in our requests that could be something that oh that's right because it's the we talked about this the the the co-op doesn't do The Ripping up of the old concrete all that we would have to buters but then we could figure out how to to be careful about I just realize we do an and it's I believe it's an but everything we do is mostly residential streets like we put you know another million and a half dollars into residential streets are we doing enough for our major streets got railroad Washington South Summit River Edge Road you know the roads that are nonresidential is county is County and just so you know uh angle street from the Englewood border yeah to Wester down Wester out to being drive that's all County and that's on are we Dean and County have been ding the past few years um what about Washington Washington we had a discussion Andy and I had a discussion originally about railroad Aven was my first going back two years ago and it was well maybe you know CD cdbg Grant or something like that but it's not going to work out 10 were to there's not enough we have to put money into it well but you know moving forward that's I put my list together that I submit to Andy based on the 2019 roadway to Y so we had we rting every Road in town back then are the downtown roads on that ABCD left they are on that list and they're not in the right they they haven't made my list yet and that's what I do I go back to that because we paid for that yeah we for that and he was here last week he said he's going to get us new in the next couple mons right so so basically that'll show all the roads that we knocked off already that are now green who owns from Highwood to East Clinton from Highwood to East Clinton that is on our DOT list to be 2024 do I believe so it was get done in 2025 right yeah so we did we did last year we did from fabulous it stops right this year is a Highwood Avenue we're doing Highwood tekening down to Hillside right next year we'll be angle from Highwood to Clint we already did from Westervelt to Clint yeah and the county is doing from Englewood great to Westervelt so Engle Street will be 100% done by 202 Highwood also and Highwood is getting the one is getting done this year and the next one will get done in 202 John just to put it in perspective for the past four years we spent about a million dollars on roads maybe a million and a half that County money coming in stuff like that and of previously the burrow was spending about 125 to 150,000 a year on road so we ued the anti over the past few years to catch up so if you if if you in your mind you're thinking perhaps maybe we should be doing more I just want to give you the context of we're already you know 8 to 10x already appreciate that but I also think Adam right about downtown he's 100% yeah of course of course all things to the and and the previous concept was with the engineering report Mike and Adam were talking about is let's PVE the worst roads first and work our way you know up sort of thing which be generally following and maybe it's just a function of again it could be the ab green yellow red or it's also could be 80% of the goes towards residential streets right and 20% should go to iong but Washington railroad Summit p and previously have not calculated that way we took the quadrants of the town and everybody got 25% of the money generally valid point you know that's okay all right let's get refocused guys Michael go ahead all right so the thermoplastic that would be in conjunction between the chief and the traffic sergeant and the DPW fig where we're going to put those um have I got a price of I think $2,800 to do the intersection of Oak Avenue and nicob probably depending on what we have you know if you're doing the wide striping Pi up more money do the thin striping let's let's do it a different way in are there any questions for M on the capital budget I'll save you some Jamie go ahead all right guys Jamie yeah oh no so seem a good idea we talking about the backer if we're also discussing like what we're doing over the Le the next like I don't know if we should be spending money on a on a truck that think if we are starting to talk about the top like we might want to different shot or a different process so maybe we hold off on on anything that use on uh on recycling we do commercial pickups which is I think it's uh 20% of our pickups for the year is commercial that truck would also be doing it so every Monday that truck would roll out pick up commercial recycling downtown it's not a leaf it's not just a Lea but it would get we use them for leaf could you buy a cheaper one for just a recycling we have a master problem at the Le level right we don't know how we're going to solve it why syc 350 something need to be on the resale market for Ev it wasn't there because if you're using it for recycling is there something cheaper to buy for that recycling you're still no you're still going to need the package TR still need the pack so no matter what no matter what even if it's only rolling once a week you still got to pick up the commercial recycling on West Council ready to say we're not pick the commercial recycling compet very unpopular that's an additional attack that's been discussed since since I first came on board 2020 we brought that up we said what about abandoning commercial recycl the definition commercial recy that means now anybody downtown that we're picking up plus all the school dumpsters the dumpsters are now on you to get and you got to get rid of your own stuff now so for the shop owners what do other town uh I know burfield picks up clarb only um it's it's uh the business owners Theus is on them for those i i p for my own my day job I pay for my own understood that that's I didn't mean to throw that monkey Ren but in response to the question that would be your option you $350,000 on a on a pack of truck then we need to start moving towards privatizing uh downtown pickups what uh back of the envelope what is it cost at the burrow to pick up commercial cardboard and garbage Andy 350 on an operating level because that our commercial garbage is picked up as part of our total contract the commercial garbage yeah or is that private that's that's private that's private but the recycling we pick up the recycling we pick up okay so there's certain locations that that they do pick up we'd have to go to the vendor to find out exactly which ones if you go back there and you see waste waste industry's name on it then they're picking that one up um but it's I don't think it's everybody down no can't because I still have people that that put their stuff out at the street for me to pick up so if the town was already paying for it they were I gota ask about I can contact CL about that any other questions for Mike on very well well we we all know we have flooding issues in town um some have worse problems than others some that have problems that we could alleviate some of the problem simply by cleaning pipes um we've got we've got some that we can't get through I thought we had you know we got camera kind never clean you can't get through the camera and once the camera's under water it doesn't see anything any so I'm talking 36 inch pipes stuff that's beyond the scope you never go way the water it it works it filters through slowly the the one instance where I can point to right now is U Westervelt it goes behind uh along Franklin yeah and it becomes Franklin Creek which eventually becomes the downtown Colton it's 36 pipes that are that are P solid that's so uh we brought in a vendor we got prices most of the prices were in the 300 plus range we got a guy said I could do this for 4395 that's my guy that's my guy and he was unsuccessful in least we we're now we're now fighting with him about paying him did nothing okay so it's that that's an option again in our engineering meeting it was discussed that um poers is is going to be authorized or or the discussion is out there for them to start doing the upgrades to the um snorm water mapping yeah which would take into effect that that it's not practical Solutions now we're talking putting it on paper and saying okay you got a 12in pipe would have paid the said you know to replace it with a 15 or an 18inch pipe those are calculations that have to be done right now what I'm talking about doing is simply adding holding capacity to the existing pipes that we have because they're so you if you got a 36 inch pipe you hold a lot of water if it's 90% filled you hold way less water and you're backing up Upstream so do we know what what that is what the we actually don't yeah short Frogman in there was reced zero right froggy you talking about frogy bar the drainage issues right so you need more money than $50,000 for drainage issues yeah I'm not yeah to address what I'm talking about it's not going to work or would just you do up to the 50 and then you're not yeah again what I tried to get done for 43,000 it didn't work oh while while we're talking about this particular sorry say it again no it's it's in here that would maybe that's recommendation from No No it started out as 50 and recommended that is 400,000 yeah I have 400,000 400,000 okay I was like sry so so that's that's a good point Str 4,000 that's not your that's we received original quotes yes over 300,000 so yeah that's my number that's your that's my number to say if we wanted to do and that that was I'll tell you exactly where it was it was um where I just described GL well going to the Franklin opening um there's an issue with that that I'll I'll revisit um it was Sunnyside Park from the park out to the outall uh close to uh underneath by w and going towards uh Barson um and then the third spot was up by old Smith and Mountain there's a culbert that goes underneath the road there that it's partially blocked as well which increases flooding issues Upstream um and 400,000 would cover all this s about that our original yeah yes so our original quotes for those three locations in excess of $300,000 from United watering so we would be in the 300 $400,000 for those three locations so that doesn't include Walnut no nothing on Walnut can we can we FP that further so you just one of those you broke I mean that's that's up to you I mean uh you think it'll be effective in terms of you know can we do it Sil or just push it down the line and stop before we answer that question I just want to throw some stuff out in terms of what's going on with this water which is falling way too fast and too much at once right so not what is not included here or proposed is the Walmart Park area which just becomes a lake when it rains um the um the over Creek certain areas of over Creek that um we're starting to have conversations about buying houses tearing them down um so that the water has someplace to go this blue acr's money it also doesn't include yet Andy the engineer is putting together the quarterly maintenance plan for the Bliss Avenue Bridge for cleaning out every quarter 1,000 ft Upstream of the overp right so there's a lot of this stuff coming to the surface and also up on East Clinton all the way up by the by ESS by Essex underground has to be cleaned out in order to dump water into the Nature Center yeah I'm just saying there potential for U I mean we should probably just see how it works uh you know in the beginning and then kind of roll it out as as time goes on sure it will clear it off you so I would go out I would go out and break it up I'll I'll bring them back in and say here break it up and then you can have so the break up I'm saying you should be in bu so not do the whole Capital you know 400,000 in the capital open to your guys discussions and approval so as long as we do like 150 maybe two out of three right something like that plus I just want to throw out there also because there's more I mean that's the problem but my point is guys listen up we're also in the midst of our first lawsuit up on Churchill Churchill over water issues with the residents so this stuff is like it's going to be a preeminent issue going forward it's be [Music] circul that we didn't clean out the drainage ditches and his garage flooded this garage is below street level and so you know the whole gravity thing but you know that's a whole ordinance to allow for those to be well there's another thing what's working its way through the planning board right now is uh people who have garages that are below grade we want to allow them to block those up and not have to have a garage sort of things right if I can maybe I I'm gonna take a little bit a jump off point from what ven was saying perhaps and it's kind of what you were just informing us about back in the envelope way what about if we have that holistic budgetary view of water issues where it includes what Mike's asked for it includes these other departments with Bureau Engineers going to require so we actually know it's more it's more honest to us as Representatives about what the cost of this is to US every year you know you know because the 400,000 probably quite Justified but it's but we just have to have a much better view of 400,000 plus this plus that plus that which all water issues so it's like oh my gosh we're spending a million and a half on water issues you know just so we know it okay so what we what I'm going to suggest to the council then and David let's talk to Andy hippol is let's have put a report together on because because Michael and I are very much involved with Andy on all the water issues in town all the different locations and so we can have him put a list together so the council understands it but the solution to these based on again back of the envelope speak Andy Hipp Michael and I oh yeah yeah so but we've never told Andy to make you know so we'll have him put a list together with top level Solutions but you're talking about1 or5 Million worth of problems yeah not including buying of the homes what we're going to do and our strategy I just wanted to say one because my Comm my understanding of the problem is um so we also had those Culvert projects the mapping Culvert mapping done last year it is that what's related to what yes it's so it's it's related and the reason and you correct me if I'm wrong with all the CT all the storm sewers we have around town we really don't have a handle 100% of what we have in the sizes of everything so that whole system is going to map so we know well do we have a 12-inch pipe and do we need a 20inch or do we already have a 20 and we need a 40 go ahead we have a lot of the pipe sizes already it's the inverse right like meaning depth and things like that that need to be fleshed out um again upsizing pipes is an idea but our main problem and May has already taken this to another level is the Ten Hill Brook the overp creek and all their tributaries are filled in fun between residents building out their yards uh sediment building up and all that where the tentac Kill Creek used to be 20 feet wide and 8 feet deep it's now in some spots four feet wide and two feet deep there's nowhere for the water to go our system was built a 100 years ago and it was built for a hundred year ago storms and amount of water and it's just they're two different animals now and it doesn't have anywhere to go we could read through all our pipes clean all our pipes have the best pipes in the world and they hit these other waterways they have nowhere to go it's a regional problem that the mayor is has actually reached out already and is trying to work with we're gonna have another conversation so I think understand and say give everybody the the broad picture view what is the cost of CL let's call it what is climate change to us as taxpayers and just so we know what we're dealing with then what we can appropriate yeah we can put that together we it separated like you do the road like red light yellow light green so you know it's interesting it's interesting you say that so I'm going to give you just because we're talking about it quick so when I say it's too much rain is falling in a short period of time none of the systems any of these towns around here have it's not just T of Life are capable of handling the water okay so we have residents who live near the Nature Center downhill the Nature Center okay um when it rains too much we get a lot of those residents feel that it's the pond and the small brook are causing the problem with flooding in their neighborhood okay if um if you're in another section of town okay you've got neighbors who think the cause of it is because there's new construction two blocks away right we've got that going on on the west side and then we have we have some residents who live near nicob Baka Country Club who feel that when it rains heavily the cause of the problem is there's too much grass and woods behind their houses so all the people's under people's feelings are diametrically opposed to each other and to the reality of what's going on and if we have a 12inch pipe antenna fly and we want to make it 20 inches we can do that but if Englewood only has a 20inch pipe when it rains the the pipes energize and the roads will blow up and no matter what we do on our side if people don't help us in front of us and behind us that's what we're try's a question for you on a poal level on a county level on a state level on a municipal Bond on a municipal Bond basis do people differentiate among green bonds and non-green bonds in CIA a cheap green Bond I don't know what a green green bond is environmentally friendly and I mean have you worked at a bank if you say it's a green deal the approval process is different the rates are different everything is cheaper so before Shew that question so tly cill we can't do this alone so the state is asking us to form a storm water utility and that's in the conversation mode and they really want to be controlled by the county because then you have an authority that's able to say okay we need a 30in pipe on on County Road for 12 miles right and that's so that's the road we're going down we're stumbling forward on that as a County right now so green Bond County level that's so much cheaper hold okay so what else do we have this is supposed to be a whole burrow capital budget first five first 45 minutes is prob work so any other questions for mik on the capital okay Michael you're welcome to State the next minutes yeah can I can I just to throw but let's do it complex roof repairs Let It Rain so this this is to move forward from and unfortunately the library the most recent Library roofing project is a disaster um everybody knows what's going on there but this was to move forward from the library coming this way up until this area out here was a half million dollar I me we're g to talk sorry you weren't here in the beginning when we had a lotary discussion we spoke about what I believe is the need for a new complex I hate to be spending half million year half million year for literally we all know this is a disgustingly old building that needs to be replace so you're literally throwing good money after bad money we just have to figure out can we do it can we afford it and how long it'll take but sorry put put a giant line through the 500,000 then because I think that was that's what we have to talk about Council there is then put a $110,000 placeholder in there for the repair over the children's room that didn't get address Library okay let's do that yes that and that the the library went out and brought in an independent contractor and provided us with a study and uh and the price was that I no uh believe it was a it was a contract CRS oh oh sh grouping systems cool okay thank you Mike thank you so I know we only have 10 minutes left we're obviously not going to be able to talk about individual items what I do think we need to talk about though is what is the size of the capital budget we want to put forward and what that would look like uh right now roughly Susan and te are proposing about $4 million of capital yeah all one so about $4 million of capital um the question is should it be two should it be six and then that will help us understand either do we have to be more aggressive to take stuff out and then equally let's at least get on the table so we have it for the next meeting is there anything missing from this budget that we want to put so those are the two things 4.1 million abs and open space out quick one question Susan how much how much de are we retiring this year so I don't have that number off the top of my head but um I have to wait for the AFS anual Financial ST which the orders did not give me yet sometimes we pay down debt like we did last year in the budget those are the tweaking numbers towards the end so so you I mean I have a debt schedule from last year I could go run and again you no no wa pay down okay we so we PID a couple million dollars in principal and then uh the interest is uh under that we can look in here we could look in our because that we need to know what that is so it's part of okay so we'll go under Debt Service and you'll see the debt that we paid down we paying down in one of the uh bonds 2 million 25,000 and then there's interest on that and the the principle we paid down on one notes last year was was uh 340,000 so we paid down 2.3 yeah 2.3 so we're talking about a 1.7 increase 1.7 increase in in in debt right so we paid down 2.3 right we paid down 2.3 this year right we're talking about a $4 million capital budget that we're going to borrow 95% of the money for so it'll be on top of where we are 1.7 million okay but we have to answer because I'm going to be borrowing for a note again this year every year I borrow so then you don't pay down principal on notes until the third anniversary day so but you're rolling the note well you roll it that's why we have a principal note payment in here we roll it until we Bond so then you have to pay the interest so the interest on notes that we didn't aren't paying um we're paying okay it's a little complicate you have Bond anticipation notes which are temporary temporary notes issu right then you issue the BX so right now we have notes that we're paying interest time and the interest is about over a half a million dollars then we have notes that we had hit the third anniversary day and that will be that's the 300 and something and they have principal payments on bonds of only but the not the notes are iOS and then you go to an IOP an interest in principal structure on the debt so the question is how long can you roll notes in high reir without paying down princi so you want to finance it in a l so notes could be rolled for 10 years but you have to start paying principal on the notes on the third anniversary did you get three years free right on two years the third anniversary but the debt already on our books yeah so we're rolling it's already on the books it's not new debt let's one we're rolling is the .5 million for the FEMA like took out which will be reimbursed by us by not us by FEMA but I don't know when right so let avue bridge that we had to rebuild so FEA doesn't give a municipality a check and say hey go build your stuff because we're going to go out and buy din airplane right so we have to we float a bond we do it then they reimburse us interest on the bond P the debt so when FEMA reimburses us that money is that money is required to pay down that debt correct we're going to pay down the debt when FEMA reimburses makes sense so we're never gonna bond for that right but that that money's outside that money it's not quite off it is so we'll get from Susan we get the debt schedule the debt schedule retirement so we have a sense of where we are and then you know I would propose could we what would it look like if we added another million what would it be if we subtracted a million okay so I could play around with that so just so you know when uh when you add money to the budget right is when we Bond then that'll increase the principal right um there's heavy duty fees associated with bonding CL about 40 to 50,000 the bond with the auditing fees Bond counil fees so you want to do it you B you house until you turn so normally bonding for less than 10 million going to be over that because our Capital um projects have increased more rapidly we used to do two and a half to three million to three and a half million in projects now we're going a little high are the bonding fees basis points on notional or are they fixed fees they're on the notes the the fees are associated with the notes the size of the notes size of the notes and some a billion dollars versus $100,000 it's the same $50,000 no no you pay more for the billi yeah and then um what is it per thousand is it well it depends on the fees that they have engagement and then the you know we pay financial advisor that's what now they all want us to have as a financial that's yeah that's generally under state legislators that's usually under 10,000 they have to pay Bond C and that comes out to about 50,000 bill but I build it into our C and then oh then there's Bank qualified uh notes I don't know if the legislation that's changed on that so I think there was I forget if it was uh under 10 million is B qualified I don't know if it goes over so it could be the other way around it's up probably under and then uh it's just every time you borrow it does affect the P but what was good at one point is we drop off in a bond and then we would do a bond and it would be neutral to budget that's not going to happen St did be death prepared to answer your questions do we is there a consensus or wishest that you want us to zero in on for numbers about how big the capital budget should be yes I think it I mean I don't know about what everyone thinks I think we're mostly there I mean I have a couple ideas it's 100 200,000 I don't even have a million dollars use okay I think what we do have to talk about as a team and I don't understand how we would pay for it again there are bigger things that have to happen at some point we need a new Municipal complex again I'm just one of six I would like some sort Community Center rec center I think at some point we have to fix the senior center now all three all those are three I'm sure there's one or two others all of those though we could just paper ourselves completely just you know have might pay for it out of his own pocket that's one extreme The Other Extreme is to um The Other Extreme is again you give it to uh somebody to build for you they build you a state-of-the-art senior center and then they put an office complex that they could charge rent for above it to an extreme that's how you take work I don't they relase back and they release factor I don't know how you budget for something like that obviously when you pay for yourself okay so I was on a seminar yesterday and one of the items that came up was the interest that we earned so you saw in the revenue it was amazing right thought it was a mistake oh my God this can't I wrote down why can't we do that again this year they said that the interest will most likely be stable for this year but I think that and I don't know because I don't have the AFS yet the financial thing I don't know what the the amount that we're going to regenerate from our Appropriations will be yet but we have Sur we will have Surplus from the interest that we you know we we anticipated about 190,000 so we will have interest there so what they said was to not create a you know fund balance will increase from that to do not create a hole in the budget if you have a with like this amount of money that's when you do a one next year that's when you do a one-time event you don't use that money to anticipate it into your next budget you use what you normally regenerate and then you take the amount that was a big amount and use it for something like a put it towards a bill you don't what are short Investments H them and are we buying getting good interest in the bank interest I think um well over almost 56 something like that 1.2 versus 800,000 was amazing GNA keep for another year so you want discounts for prepaid taxes I pay you all my taxes right now back Bas points on how many millions of dollars it's real deal so if you had your pre prepaid taxes we'd have to make the money up in another investment we will she's making six s% 3% off I'll give you a check get that off I mean you could get that you got that last year I'll my check right now we we did just collectively kind of come to a consensus to save 490,000 few minutes ago because we're not I think we're in I think we're in the game we're in the game close all right so um we have next budget meeting Tuesday night before the council meeting yes so slight FR issue I thought so I saw that you have Clos session to start the meeting also so so I think it's the clerk's budget my budget at 6 o' on Tuesday okay so we don't think we need more than Marathon good awesome guys all right I have a motion to adjourn please all in favor oppos well done team really well [Music] done