16th 2024 and we will call to order the local planning agency meeting for to Questa Florida Meg will you take roll call please I would love to uh good evening everybody Marie sefre Sher Ambrose Janine mlon here Teresa magio here Leslie Dasher here Jay Hub you don't have to call staff you did good though thank you okay and um has everybody had a chance to review tonight's agenda and if there's no changes um I have a motion to approve I'll make a motion to approve the agenda okay second okay all in favor I I all opposed the agenda is approved and uh has everybody had a chance to look at last meeting minutes yes and are there any changes that you can think of okay okay and if we are if there's no changes we can make a motion to approve the previous meeting minutes second okay all approved all all in favor I all opposed okay the uh previous meeting minutes are approved Janet not Janet Marie did you want to move down oneair it doesn't look like doesn't look like Mark was gonna be here okay we have the one agenda item which is okay okay we'll start with agenda item number one which is 24- 172 and Jay did you want to so Dylan's going to read the ordinance first okay pass it over to me huh uh thank you chair this is uh item number two on our agenda this evening is ordinance number 1-24 this is an ordinance of the Village Council of the village of Testa Florida amending the village code of ordinances at chapter 78 zoning to adopt a new overlay zoning that implements certain recommendations contained in the October 2022 Village of taquesta commercial Corridor master plan as prepared by the Treasure Coast Regional planning Council and adopted by The Village Council on November 10th 2022 specifically amending the following section 784 definitions by adopting new definitions for formula business formula restaurant overlay District facade transparency and Civic open space 78-96 discontinuance of non-conforming uses by adding language to explain the continuation of non-conforming uses in an overlay zone 78-1 76 C1 neighborhood commercial District by adding permitted and special exception use regulations applicable to O overlay zoning section 78177 C2 Community commercial District District by adding permitted and special exception use regulations applicable to Overlay zoning section 78-1 78 C3 General commercial District by adding permitted and special exception use regulations applicable to Overlay zoning section 78-1 180 mu mixed use District by adding permitted and special exception use regulations applicable to Overlay zoning and resolving any conflict between mu zoning and overlay zoning in favor of overlay zoning further creating an entirely new article section or article 6 division 3 enti overlay districts with new code sections 78201 through 78204 adopting section 78201 to Quest to drive overlay creating and defining this overlay District providing purpose and intent providing design setback facade parking formula business and restaurant open space and Landscaping guidelines providing for payment in lie of certain open space requirements providing for waivers resolving any conflict between General regulations and overlay zoning regulations in favor of overlay zoning regulations also adopting section 78-22 US Highway 1 overlay creating and defining this overlay District providing purpose and intent providing design setback facade parking formula business and restaurant open space and Landscaping guidelines providing for payment in lie of certain open space requirements providing for waivers resolving any conflict between General regulations and overlay zoning regulations in favor of overlay zoning regulations also adopting section 78 203 Village Center overlay creating defining this overlay District providing purpose in 10 providing design setback facade parking formula business and restaurant open space and Landscaping guidelines providing for payment in lie of certain open space requirements wa providing for waivers resolving any conflict between General regulations overlay zoning regulations in favor of the overlay zoning regulations adopting section 78 204 waivers to provide a program for obtaining waivers from The Village Council from certain overlay District requirements providing for an application and providing criteria for the granting of a waiver providing that each and every other section and subsection a chapter 78 zoning shall remain in full force in effect as previously adopted providing a conflix clause a separability clause authority to codify providing an effective date and for other purposes thank you for sitting with me through that I am uh going to be trying out as a a horse race caller in the near future I believe um Bard you this is the second time that you'll be uh having this ordinance in front of you it went through a couple of minor changes which is why it is coming back in front of you a second time uh I know Jay is incredibly excited to tell talk to you about those changes thank you Dylan I'm glad I didn't have to do that wow um okay so I've got just a very brief presentation I'm not going to give the full one that we've done I know you've I think you've sat through that one twice already so I'll spare you that um the only thing that's happened since the last time is we we took it to council for first reading on April 11th and at that meeting a few local Property Owners said you know that you guys are kind of rushing the code we'd like you know for you to do a little bit more Outreach the local business Community into local property owners and and have a workshop um so with that in mind um The Village Council directed staff to hold a workshop and invite the business community and Commercial Property Owners um we scheduled it for April 29th when we were having a regularly scheduled Workshop we sent invites to 300 50 registered business owners through our um business tax receipt process we have a lot of them in our in our system um via email you know a few of those did bounce back so you know I'm sure that not all of them received it but um you know I did did hear from a few that did receive it and then we sent out an additional 60 mailers to all of the commercial property owners um you know I did get a few that got returned but for the most part I think a lot of them did receive it I I heard from a few different Property Owners about it um so we then held the meeting um on April 29th um we had a few uh you I don't I wouldn't say it was a huge turnout but um you know there was you know a decent turnout from the business community and and the property owner Community um you know gave the Village Council additional time to kind of um evaluate the code and you know Workshop a little bit further so after the input from the community and their discussion they did make a few changes um so this is kind of a summary of those changes um you know you you these are the only things that have have been changed since the last time you saw it and voted 50 in favor of it um so you know in general um these are kind of things we're looking at tonight not the ordinance as a whole of of course if if there was something that you think you missed last time you know we could we could you take a look at that too so one of the things we did is change the number of um formula businesses from 3 to 10 I know there's been a lot of talk about you know would three natives qualify what if it was a local business you know what's the right number and I think after Council talked a little bit further and heard some feedback um you know they wanted it to up it to 10 um that number is not set in stone they uh I told them at that Workshop that I would bring back some data to them on what kind of what the norm is what what other places that have formula businesses cap their number at and when I did have done some research um 10 does actually seem like it's a pretty consistent number you know Stuart Stewarts is six um santelle is another one that has it and they have three they're the only one I've seen that has it that low um a lot of the other cities around the country do tend to have it around 10 I actually saw one or two that maybe had it at around 15 and one of them had it at seven but 10 seemed seemed like a you know The Sweet Spot good place to start yeah uh and then we also they also wanted us to to Define what a waiver is as you know there's a a waiver process in the code but uh the council wanted us to Define what a waiver is just so there's some clarity between what a waiver is and what a variance is just so there's not any confusion there um they also wanted us to increase the um non-conformity period from 90 days to 180 days so this is if if there's an existing formula business and it's replaced by the same type of formula business um they would be able to continue for 90 um as long as that business opened within 90 days of the other one closing they would be able to come in um they thought that that wasn't you know enough time so they wanted to increase it to 180 days and that's that's something that the business Community has provided feedback on you know they've said that um a few of the property owners have said that it's very hard for them to replace tenants um you know that quickly and so you know we really don't have a lot of I would call them you know highly undesirable non-conforming uses that are currently in place so um you know I don't think that that there's really any issues with with continuing to 180 days um the the other one is they just wanted to clarify that when there's something that's a business service a health and medical office or personal service they're permitted uses if if it's already a permitted use it can continue being a permitted use so long as it's not a formula business because there's times where there's some of those businesses are uh permitted use but they're not a formula business so if it's like a locally run um you know medical office they can U go through the uh the normal process uh then um they also wanted some clarification that when a property owner dedicates Civic open space of the village that we would be assuming all liability and responsibility some of the property owners were very concerned that you know if they had to create Civic open space um that they'd be liable you know because it's it's open to the public it's in kind of a de facto little pocket park perhaps that if something happened they'd be liable for that and so you know if we're going to be kind of asking to have the Civic open space um we would assume liability and responsibility and then of course these are your previous recommendations um you know Council I think council's kind of tentatively looked at them and I think they've support a few of them um but want to you know look into them a little bit further at the next meeting and as far as the process goes um this is kind of The Next Step so we've got the local planning agency tonight if you recommend approving it and moving it on it'll go to First reading at council at the next meeting in June and then second reading in July and that's all I have are there any questions for Jay mar mar go ahead um I'll kick us off um my first comment is to reiterate that the entire purpose of this code update is to increase the value of the properties in the village all of the properties and the ones in the overlay Zone in particular um and I also have a question for the attorney um to clarify the waiver process is in addition to the variance process and is not a substitute for it is that correct that's correct the the waiver process is specifically limited to this section and the open space requirements uh has no effect on the general ability for a property owner to request a variance from any provision of Village code excellent thank you um my next comment is on the waiver definition so on page five of the PDF um so this I think this definition needs to be strengthened to protect the village interest because as written it does not sufficiently do that the way the definition works is that there are two possible reasons to request a waiver first an alternative with a demonstrated public benefit and second an alternative with a better design outcome the problem is that as drafted these two waiver options create giant loopholes that negate the whole overlay from framework without being tailored to those two interests the public benefit and a better design for for example a public benefit might be extremely small and this is not a speculative risk in the recent Council decision regarding the private car museum at the last meeting three council members found a public benefit and and the positives outweigh the negatives in a use that provides no public benefit at all to our residents and that demonstrably harms the interests of our local businesses as written here a public benefit offered to justify waiver could be so small that it will be a loophole unless we're more specific accordingly we should add the requirement that the public benefit be substantial and also require that the applicant and the council identify specifically the public benefit and the council should approve that in writing the reason for this is that elected officials ought to be accountable to the public for the public benefit that they're embracing in granting a waiver request similarly the language about a better design outcome is meaningless unless we are referring specifically to the best option available under the code it is not acceptable for example for an applicant to bring in a bad design option that might be permissible and say we can do better than that but that it would be possible under this proposed language to wave what the code requires under this overlay framework the applicant ought to show clearly that they need the waiver to do better than the best that's possible under what the code would allow the reference has to be the best of what the code allows otherwise we're not achieving the superior design and this option too becomes a loophole the important question here is if there's actually a meaningful improvement over what's permissible under the code and that needs to be reflected in the code language in addition the better design outcome option should also be limited to aesthetic changes only because that's what it's directed towards um in both cases the applicant should specifically identify the public benefit or the better design outcome and it should be specifically identified and improved approved in writing by the council um it's important to include this requirement because is drafted we could be undermining the purpose of the code update um which is to increase the value of all the properties um So to avoid this problem um the or I propose that the I would suggest to my fellow coun or board members that the ordinance should say instead quote waiver means a request to deviate from a specific code requirement where alternative Solutions are provided that can be demonstrated to provide a substantial public benefit that is specific recognized by The Village Council to justify the waiver or result in a better design outcome than the best design option permissible under the code waiver and then this would keep the next sentence waivers may be granted in the toest to drive US Highway 1 Village Center overlay districts and planned commercial developments um and then we would add the sentence the substantial public benefit or the specific design outcome must be specifically and expressly identified in writing by the o applicant and approved by the council to cover those two concerns um the other point that I had was um the maintenance of Civic open space on pages so this is on is in several places but Pages 23 to 24 in the numbers of the um will get you to the first in instance of it it's also on page 33 and Page 42 um this change doesn't give the village any clear decision over whether or not to accept the dedication of the space and at our last meeting we voted to add a requirement that the Village Council must accept the dedication at um and the council As I understood it was in agreement with that piece of it so I would like to see that included in the language here and to say what I said last time the reason for this is that the requirement is that it's not in in the best interests of the village taxpayers and the property owner to have for for that the property owner have the ability to unilaterally impose liability and maintenance on the village so that would be need to be done in agreement with the Village Council can you repeat the last section about the public about the open yeah the open space right so I just what I would like to see is that and to have language included that the Village Council has to accept the dedication of the open space for of the liability and maintenance of the open space okay right you mean um that that they would choose there might be a case as okay because right now the way it reads is that it it permits the possibility that we that they could that it would be a one way one there wouldn't be a decision made by on the village part so just to protect The Village's interest we need I would like to make that clear okay and you have more Mar no oh no okay did we get that all just because I agre okay yeah yeah I can when we make a our recommendations I can I can repeat my Teresa do you have any comments no okay um I do have one about the um the the waivers I mean we have to it it would come through here as an SPM first so we would have the option to recommend to the council yes or no that that we we think first that it's good enough and then they would also have to make that decision so I think that's they would have the final decision they' have the final decision but it we would see it and yep decide if we felt it was good enough and then they would also you know quite a few people that would see it before it and I think what what Marie's trying to do is is just strengthen their criteria for it because it's right now it's probably a little loose on on on um how to apply it so what she said does strengthen it I I can live with it um I don't know if you have any issues with it I uh I especially like in the first part of it where you said you know a substantial public benefit right because a public benefit could be minus school so um I can we just want to make sure we're getting something substantive right it's just it's in the eye of the beholder type yeah you know that's that's the big issue and then also um you know I and I totally agree with the um as as we discussed uh like like Liz said during her time on the council there' be people that say we're going to do all these grandiose things and then donate it to the Village costing right a lot of money and when the village said no then the land owners did not do it m because they didn't want the responsibility or the cost so it's I think it's we definitely have to have the the ability to the Village needs the ability to say yes or no yeah and um I think that was oh and then also the um I guess like the some of the business owners stated that they were concerned about liability and such and we did bring up last time about um setting hours for people to be in these in these spaces um just to protect the local businesses and I didn't now that could be on something different that might have to be on a different ordinance notot so okay so the council um all the recommendations you made at the previous meeting have not been put into this ordinance right so what I would recommend doing and overrule me if I'm wrong here counselor is to just take the previous recommendations you made at the last meeting and then add any addition to it so for instance Marie's additional waiver would then be an additional um condition and then you might want to tweak the existing condition you had related to the Civic open space um but they they haven't so they have not formally you know said yes or no on on the conditions you guys made previously okay well at least it's because I I realized some of it would have to go through on a separate ordinance not here so no it'll it'll go into this ordinance and I thought they had accepted what we they they said that they were generally good with three of them okay um but they didn't really dig into it so we just and we knew that it would be coming back here so we figured that we would wait get any additional recommendations from you tonight put them into the uh and then take them to council at first reading again so in effect we're we're acting like this is the you know kind of the first time we're here okay okay and if we're ready we'll open the floor to public comment Who's first do you want to read the comment cards Thomas Frankle okay Mr Frankle if you come to the podium and state your name and address please for the record thank thank you my name is Tom Frankle um I live in Juno Beach but I am uh partners with Vil pero on the Paradise Park parcel which is quite quite frankly the elephant in the room so we have um we were late to the game we had not been notified for years of the various workshops and so forth we're so we were pretty much in the dark about the overlay zoning and became aware of it a couple months ago and we um to be quite honest we are uh concerned and we feel like the way that is presently written um it's not increase in value of our property but a taking and we've had outside Council who specializes in this write a letter to the council and and to the uh Village attorney telling them that um as it's written if it goes forward we will pursue our legal rights we don't want to do that we want to work with staff and councel to come up with a plan that works for both the town the village and us is the landowner Paradise Park is probably the only significant undeveloped parcel in the village OFA and our intent is to develop it that would provide a significant Civic benefit to the Village significant not a tiny little 7500 square foot Park which is what your your existing proposed overlay would require us to do but something more significant um but to do that that we want to be able to receive significant waivers and they haven't been identified here as significant I think um you're headed in in a great Direction with identifying quantifying what significant signific benefit would be but I think you need to identify what the significant benefit would be to the landowner by providing that and and I I haven't seen it in the waivers so we've spoken to Jay we've spoken to Jared we've written a we've written a letter since since the last Workshop coming up with some ideas as to how we can both benefit and I'm not sure this is something that could be resolved tonight or even at the next council meeting um so we are concerned about three things we feel like Civic taking you're taking our property okay we're not you know if we can work together we're open to that idea but if you're not going to we're not going to work together we're going to object to that idea formula businesses um as a developer when you go build a project like this in order to borrow money you need tenants that have credible bankable balance sheets if you're going to restrict the developer to not allow formul businesses but only local Mom and Pops you can't Finance your bit you can't Finance your project that's hurting the value of our property we are not going to stand for that I'll be quite honest we've spoken to Jay we're open to the idea of not allowing formula restaurants or food establishments at all in in the mix juice parcel that we own but we have to be allowed to have formula businesses let's just say there's a local real estate broker who works for Douglas Elman who has offices all throughout the country and he wants to open up AI a real estate brokerage office in in our location you're not going to allow because it's a formula business it's absurd it's a local property owner a local toquer resident looking to do this so we've proposed to the Village Council and to and the staff a list of formula businesses that should be allowed in our in our area Medical Offices lawyers offices accounting offices um Federal Express UPS things like that should be allowed and the way this is written it's not allowed and it's not something we're going to stand by and just let it let it be approved we will fight it if it's not if it's not changed so but our goal as as Jay knows and Jeremy knows is to work together I don't think that the Village Center is in a position right now to move forward because it's it's Unique Paradise Park is unique and it has a chance to to be something really special but it takes a team it takes a teamwork of the village and the developer to work together to make that happen so quite frankly you know I've written this letter and Phil and I and we basically feel that if if and you guys have worked very hard in the O industry no disrespect you put a lot of time in and I think it's by the way long overdue for the village there's a lot of great architectural things that you've created within that um overlay District which I think will increase property values but we feel that the Village Center specifically Paradise Park needs to be slowed down and and thought out and worked together and so um and so you know that's that's where we stand I'd answer any questions but thank you Mr Franco Ryan Franco of course go right ahead what's your name if you'll state your name and address for the record please uh my name is Bill perco uh 300 Beach Road 250 Beach Road and one Main Street um good evening thanks for taking the time to hear us out um yeah I'm just I'm going to get more into kind of our challenges so you understand what we have to go through a little bit it might be helpful um to elaborate on some of the things Tom said um you know the overlay process you know we've known about it's it's specifically the way the code text amendment was written in the ordinance that's newer and we understand that there was some feedback negative positive with Starbucks and then the potential WWA and and we we get the psychology behind it I mean I live in the community uh been here for a while born and raised in Florida um but you know with this overlay you know we have an office right over off Center Street behind Ralphs and I had someone with me the other day that everyone in this room probably knows and we were talking and she's like wow this this area's got a lot of potential I said yeah it does we've been saying that for 25 years and they have an overlay it's Jay you probably be able to figure out how long it's been in place it's probably been in place for 25 years there's nothing in it there's no incent it's just an empty overlay and so with this overlay I feel like the only thing that's in it quite frankly just to be blunt about it is it gives the ability to a council to pick winners and losers everything's subject to basically a special exception right so hypothetically we talked about some of these older shopping centers these big box stores with a ton of surface parking that buil in the 80s and 90s people like wow those could be great they could have a ton of potential how do we do that I said listen think about if you're an investor and an owner who typically buys those centers you know they're looking for five 7% whatever return they're going to buy something that's simple you know you already got tenants you ret tenant and you just keep doing it and it's either a re it's a you know big insurance company it's a 1031 but if you had incentives in these waivers like for us and this is what I'm leading to is if we came to you and said wow we did a lot of work we did survey work we really figured out what the community wants here's our plan we just spent a lot of time massing it doing a fit test Civic benefit okay we lost you know 3/4 an acre now we got to put it over here vertically we got to fit this we have a parking arrangement with the neighbor to the west we have to honor we have shared parking over here we have to honor we have a 25e storm event we got to store 90% of the storm water in a 24-hour storm event you know once you put all that together it's a compromise to development and if we come to you and say well wow everybody loves this plan well we need a code text Amendment we need a variance we only had waivers that had incentives for setbacks or a little bit of density or whatever that's subject to the council at least they would have a mechanism to say wow this was a creative development pretty much 80% of the community loves it hypothetically wow we have an a mechanism to actually get it done and that's where I think the mistakes are being made I think it's too restrictive and I think as you have different councils whether they're neutral Pro development negative development it's all going to come down to responsible development and aesthetically you know building something that's pleasing and that fits into the community right we all want to do that we all live here we I have three daughters and I coach Youth Soccer it's the last thing I want to do is you know face the rout of people in the community doing something wrong so I think you know I'd really encourage you to really consider that and not only our property but you know as you scale and you want to make this walkable there's a lot of things like if you offered incentives a developer can sponsor beautifying an entrance or creating more connections to what everybody you know all the complaints now it's two lanes there's a bike lane but no one uses it well if you look at the spine to Quest the drive like connection points are missing to that road and it needs a little bit more safety I think there's you know obviously speed and a lot of things to be considered and I think you know people want this Village feel and golf carts and all that but I think a it needs to be safer and you know how do you do that you got to spend money and where's it going to come from and I'm sure you get a lot of good quality developers that would want to come in and make that investment and help the community so again that's waivers and putting in those mechanisms to to do that um um you know that's just my thoughts um I just think uh you know you got to have a process to be able to to make some real change and by being restrictive I mean what who are you going to attract to develop I mean what's in it for anybody you know I mean it should be everybody should win and that's how you know we look at it and Tom's family you know they developed ad Admiral's Cove and he's done some really nice projects and encourage you to go on his website and you know we we think we could do something really spectacular and it's a passion project more for us I mean we're doing projects near you on on the beach and and uh you know that's that's pretty much my my thoughts thank you thank you Mr perco Miss yes okay thank you and your your name and address for the record please oh Ryan Frankle I live at 1936 1930 South Dixie Highway in West Palm Beach I work for Tom frankon partners with Phil okay um so I was looking through the resident survey for 2024 and I was curious is to I saw that was the only data point that was accessible to like understand where the formula business want restriction want came from um and when I looked through the survey I found it very mixed and a lot of residents saying they want uh stores such as um Chick-fil-A Costco Target Trader chose Whole Foods um and both the 23 and 24 resident survey so I was just curious as to what other data points you guys are collecting um to come up with that that have to be from your office um yeah I mean that's the the initial Genesis of that came from the master plan in in 2022 and I'm not sure what uh what data points they use to to create that so yeah that was just a question pro thank you okay thank you Mr Franco um do we have anybody else Meg no that's all okay could okay could I ask question some questions um what would you like to ask sorry Mr um Frankle could you would you like to discuss what sure what significant benefit you foresee um I think that would be enlightening for us all so I don't think the planning board was two years a year and a half ago we we actually presented a plan for Paradise Park did you ever see it yeah so that plan had at the time it was in some apartment buildings and then we took the north half of Paradis Park where the um along to Quest to drive and we were the plan was to put a a local restaurant not a formula restaurant but a local restaurant maybe they had one location in Stewart or something with outdoor dining and then a huge Park not 7500 ft but maybe it was 25,000 ft so that's a significant benefit that creates a Gathering Place For The Village uh Friday nights you could have a local band and kids could run around and play and you could parents could you know sit and have dinner or whatever something like that is what would be a significant Civic benefit so what do we get in return for doing that giving basically creating a a a g Gathering Place For The Village do we get more density do we get relief from parking do we get an extra height because now we're taking a whole area and creating an open space and where do we transfer that so that that's kind of what our thinking is um you know do we get a a break with drainage requirements I don't know obviously we don't want to create um you know additional traffic that is you know difficult to handle or we don't want to create flooding you know those kind of things are or a given but but we would like to create or have the flexibility you know it comes down to Dollars and cents you know instead of having 75 units can you get 100 units can create a unit of control with neighboring properties where they forfeit their residential density and give it to us so there it's ideas like that i' I've submitted some of them to to Jay and the council so um we have not I have not seen your proposal um so I would be there not really a formal proposal it was basically and I basically told you all of it um but the idea was let us you know the letter was written to the council it was said let us work with staff to come up with ideas that make this a win-win for both people that that's what the direction was and and and Jay's well aware of this and one question is your current are you currently thinking along the same lines as that previous proposal that you not necessarily you have another have any proposal in mind we don't have any we don't have a plan you know we said well we can this last thing we've been approached by developers to do uh live local go up 10 stories you know we don't want to be that guy so um we've been proposed by proo um approached by national home builders we had the property actually under contract with Toll Brothers to build town homes and um we actually met with some some people in the town and got no no feedback at all about it so it would certainly be a low less impact but it wouldn't create much of a Civic benefit so anyway but we don't have a plan right now so thank you and I had one question for Mr perco too if if I can um could you um you mentioned incentives could you give me give me some examples of what type of incentives you would be looking for sure um so Tommy you know Tom mentioned in the park and you know we've spoken a lot of people with friends in the area and you know it's what are you going to do on the weekends if you're not on the boat it's windy it's raining you know where you going to go Etc there's always that question you you prefer to stay local and you know something laidback multi-generational Grandma Mom you know kids grandkids put them put everybody in one place and it's easy that's where we thought if we could program this park and actually Kyle Stone gave me the idea a couple years years ago I get him credit he said Phil go look at collab kitchen are you familiar with collab in Stewart It's a really interesting restaurant uh it's kind of farm the table um interesting menu they have a smok house as well so like you can actually eat beef and they have kind of a probiotic side dish you know like that goes there and it's there's this healthy concept to everything you're doing it's kind of interesting but in the back they have an Airstream adult stuff and then they have a big yard in the back so everybody can just run around you you going go barefoot and the kids run around and it's just very laid-back casual um you're not going to go pay $20 a drink or $50 for for a meal it's just a family Centric type place and you could do a small little um um like a little small Amphitheater you know like a one piece or three piece music you could program it for farmers markets there's just so many things you could do with that space to get the community engaged so it could offset Constitution Park and then whatever you end up doing with the Questa later on on County Line and I understand the uh all the challenges and you know with with that situation um so if you really look at that I think the first step to answer one of your questions was to create that Gathering Place and I'm just elaborating what Tom said um and once you do that I think we had about a seven of an acre and if you know the cost of per acre in that area now it's it you know based on the last sale by uh the bank of America site I think it went for like 3.8 million so the land's really shot up there I mean you know obviously everywhere and for us to give that up we have no problem doing it because we think it would be a great benefit it's just now we've devalued our site and how do we make it back and so you know if you have big units and you go to sell them your price points are really high like you know this on the beach we we're decreasing density but we're increasing the size of the units so really limits who your buyers are because they're so expensive here if we add more density we can connect to more buyers and offer a lower price point so maybe we would do lower units and we' talked to Jay and Jay's been in other municipalities where say you did a one-bedroom Suite 600 s feet instead of doing a one-bedroom that's 3,000 sare F feet hypothetically so if you look at that you look at people's patterns and how they visit and what their restrictions are and oh you got in you know in-laws coming in can't get a hotel room because you got Jupiter water front end and you got Mike's place on the beach in Jupiter and the Windom and where do you go then they're way down in the gardens you know whatever the you know so it's It's Tricky so you got density and then we know we have beautiful views at 4550 ft so if you could articulate the buildings where maybe you had two stories and it goes this way and there's a lot of landscaping it steps up and then maybe there's just this little section that's up that's not even noticeable set back and it captures all the views and then you could add a lot of value to your development because now you're selling ocean views and Lighthouse views so now you've reduced the size of the mass that you were just building this big square box and you've added better architecture it's more expensive to do those type of things but if you had the creative flexibility so if say you know the height was 50 fet but we went to 60 but we only did it in a smaller space we didn't do it all the way here and the building moved and it was screened and landscaped it's beautiful but when you when the restrictions are the way they are it's it's hard to create architecture expression and make the economics work that's what happened with rental like you know with the rates going up so high and the building costs haven't come down at all the only way they work is you need like 300 units of density anywhere from 200 to you know 600 that's why you see and now they're even hard to do I mean all the Articles you read it's just they're hard to pull off and get financi these so you know everything we're doing to Tom's Point we've had some interest by groups that are obviously formula anchored businesses that would uplift the entire business owners and land owners around us but we would have to get the support of of council to do that and I and to Ryan's point they're on those lists it's a matter of just communicating effectively with the community because to his point we've reached out and asked people okay where are you getting your data because even ex- mayor Pat Watkins Mrs Watkins said I got all this friend group but I'm not hearing the same thing you're hearing she said that in the council meeting and Ryan and I talk Tom talk said well can you read where do we get this information so we found the 23 and the 24 report and it kind of contradicted what everybody's saying is one consistent theme it's not a consistent theme sure there's naysayers that don't want anything and you know we get that and you know there's always change that change component but there are clear responses that say hey we want this type of grocery store we want an alternative to Public's I saw that a lot and you know we want our kids eating there was a couple comments you know organic foods and non GMO and so you have mothers that that have those concerns and so getting to that special use exception like we you know it's you want to you know if you wanted to commit to a group like that they want a commitment because they're going to spend a substantial amount of money to do architectural fit tests and drawings and so it makes it very difficult to negotiate and bring people in without certainty and I think this overlay what that does is it it creates some uncertainty but you said incentives so um you know if we were rewarded and we could make the economics produce better results we can not only like we could help with this park but there may be something else in the community we could support if there was an important infrastructure project or something like that but that could be not only us but it could be a lot of other sites that could be redeveloped in the future um one question you mentioned collab kitchen is that a private business yes it is okay and are the um is it a formula business what is it a formula restaurant or forms well it's the same ownership group they own um are you familiar in portelo uh the old Bank building um I've eaten there draw a blank p the district yeah District table I believe it's the same Restaurant Group as District table okay but they wouldn't fall under the if we especially if we went to 10 yeah I don't I think we would prefer I think there's some great operators we've talked to other operators that you would know and with different concepts and we think we could potentially bring some great people together that are locally rooted we're not really concerned about the restaurant it's more so the anchor you know which is going to potentially be bigger than 5,000 ft and what do you have in mind in terms of an anchor all options are on the table we've we just don't know which direction to go yet so we're trying to understand all this data that you know obviously Ryan pointed out to you really you know contemplating do we you know partner up with I think there's a taquesta civic association that we help sponsor donate money for a independently done uh survey by a group that maybe specializes in community outreach and really get a handle on what everybody wants um but uh it's it's hard because we can go you know in a million different directions but uh but I think the biggest thing again is you got to have the tools for Creative development and if you don't put them in there and and Jay please speak up on this so I mean if you don't have them what mechanism are you going to take is to do a cext Amendment or a variance like say you passed the variance and you know he could rebut me or you know whatever please feel free but say it's not a real hard it's very hard to prove a hardship so we get a variance for something right and then the village has got to defend itself because there's just one little group that maybe it's just the minority voice and they sue and then you got to prove a hardship but if you had waivers it's it's a it's you don't you don't I don't think you had that legal risk of Defending yourself I'm not an attorney uh maybe Dylan can can weigh in on that or Jay but uh that's that's my feeling with why the incentives would be a good idea you don't have to give them out it's all you know subject to I think J correct me wrong the way the waiver is written right now it specifically says no increase in height and no increase in density correct so you know that that right away just shuts that down that option so thank you okay uh we we'll close public comment and back to the board or did you have any comments Jay or uh I'm I'm happy to answer any questions you have about their comments um I'd love to hear what you have to say sure it's it's a complicated situation um we actually had a very similar situation in North Palm Beach where I previously worked where we were adopting a commercial code we had almost the exact same situation where there was a large property 13 acres so it's a little a little bit bigger than this one 13 contiguous Acres owned by somebody um the gentleman who actually developed Abacoa nadir salor was looking to buy that from the the that current property owner and he and his attorney said you know you guys are writing this code and you're completely restricting my ability to develop what I want to do and by the way you know I may be able to you know there's some things that I can do that I think the community would like to see that you're restricting me um within this code and so what we did is we had a a code for the rest of the for North Lake Boulevard and for US1 in North Palm Beach and we said well let's go ahead and adopt those and hold off and continue workshopping with the property owner for that 13 acre parcel to to you know kind of do some of the things these gentlemen are talking about um because there really wasn't any push back on on those areas and we also didn't want to hold the adoption of those areas too we had some projects we wanted to get done in those areas so um that's what we we end up doing and they've been working through that in North Palm you know after I left with that developer um it's very controversial project um he's proposing a lot more height and density than what these guys want to do I mean completely different scale of project like 14 story building so completely different scale from what these guys want to do I I think they're probably only looking for you know an additional story and you know a few extra you know residential units from what I've gathered from them um but with that said there is a path forward that that you could recommend and the council could take it's I'm not I'm not telling you to do this I'm just saying it's something you could do where you could say you know we feel pretty comfortable with adopting the US1 overlay and the taquesta drive overlay but given the concerns of these gentlemen who own a very important project we'd like to see staff in the Village Council and and the LPA continue workshopping um a code that you know could could lead to a good outcome because I you know I've only been here seven months so I'm still learning my way around but in looking at protecting the public benefit or the public good and achieving the best possible outcome on that property the one thing that I I see and that I think the community wants is is a a a significant Park A Gathering Spot like you have in you know downtown Abacoa where you go and you see a you know live music on a Saturday night or you can grab a you know grab dinner and let your kids run around so um you know if there if there's an opportunity where where we can work with them on that I you know I think it could lead to a better outcome but that's of course up to you know ultim up to our Village Council um but you know our Village Council does lean on this board for recommendations so if if you think that that's a worthy route to go down I'm sure they would like to hear that from you and okay any more I 100% agree with that I think this property is so important and I think it's exactly what we need we need to develop it and make it good for all of us for the children for you know I I just would like to leave this out of it and work on that just exactly what you said I don't know how we go about that um so your recommendation would be to Dylan jump in would recommend adoption of of the two overlays and and um request additional time to work with community on the remaining and with the owners of the property correct so if I may um so the shet was included these things and we have discussed this for the past two years and I think there is Broad significant Community Support behind doing everything together because when we carve things out um there's a very real risk that we don't do it um and I hear the comments and appreciate them and I think that we're looking at waivers all the most of what we're passing you can you can ask for a waiver for um and I think that we've built in that flexibility that is into this ordinance that it that will help us to move towards what the community had asked for specifically and the results of the charette which we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on and I do not think we should just push that aside um um and when we've spent this much time working on it too I think that that that we owe it to the community to continue to advance the whole project together because test is a whole and the point of this over the over all the overlays even though they are different overlays is to unify the community to bring the Beach Road and us one and the Village Center and to Quest to drive and make them cohesive and I don't think we're doing that if we're in out one piece of it Teresa I agree to I agree there should be Communications with the owner okay um to see if we can come to a compromise to ultimately satisfy everyone that's really what we need to do we need to talk about it and not just uh move with one opinion it really is something that we all want we all want that to be developed we just have to figure out the how that makes it work for everyone so but again we worked long and hard on these overlays too so but I believe the communication you're talking about Jay is what really has to happen and my opinion is honestly I felt the overlays were too restrictive but you know I don't have a dog in the fight so you know I can I can live with it even though I feel overall it's a little too restrictive so I would certainly want there to be plenty of options for consideration and um well I think I think we made it it was made restrictive and I think the um the subject of waivers was to be able to deviate from some of those really strict and so that's really the issue I I've always been concerned about requiring the the the public space because of just um potential for liability and things like that that's always the requiring public space is always I would can I make one comment on the public space um so particularly as it pertains to the mixed use there has always been a requirement that the at least 20% or help me make sure this is right at least 20 no more than 80% which means at least 20% can be at least more than 80% can be residential correct and no less than 20% can be residential which means that you must have commercial space on a mixed use property so the result of that The Logical conclusion is that commercial space is a public business right and that's it does it needs to be that and there's good reasons why we have that requirement for the Mixed use District in our comprehensive plan um but the result of that is that the commercial space is going to involve the public entering onto that property and in some way or form every business has deliveries coming to them they have customers they have clients so it's not in it it is part it is effectively it has a public orientation that a private space does not but that's not the public space I'm talking about it's no but the the point I understand your point I'm saying that the there is already a public use that's being that is in that is comes with the commercial space so they're inviting and when you have a commercial property you are inviting the public especially in the ca most clearly in the case of retail and in restaurant the public comes on to your property so there's already and these these Open Spaces are primarily designed to help the commercial spaces attract more people to them right in addition to being an aesthetic asset and that's the point I'm just saying that if to to make the I don't need to provide somebody with um a a fountain and uh benches to sit on and things like that that's right but see that is a benefit to I'm just not I'm I'm not in favor of requiring a set amount of space for such things but it's there and you know it's there and it it is what it is but that I'm just saying I'm not in favor of requiring some of those things because there's just liability and at 3:00 a.m. people can be sitting back there and uh whereas if they're in my parking lot you know I my business if I have a a hair salon or something I I I really don't want to have to worry about people being in these cubby holes breaking into my business or you know that sort of thing but anyway it is what it is and I we're not going to rehash all that but that's just my personal opinion but um uh but I I am very much in favor of of there being enough enough opportunities for change and and uh I would not be in favor of high density homes in that spot because the traffic I have enough trouble pulling out of the to Quest of Pharmacy and not know being broadsided and things like that so you know I mean that has to be a way too is the people that live here I want the right to be able to drive around without traffic issues and things like that so that you know it just has to be a balance right um and specifically with effect to density and to height um I was at the shet I believe some of our um commenters were also at the shet um as I understand it and the density and height was the what came through loud and clear with our community members that they did not want those to be changed um and that was very very clear and I think it's reflected in the master plan and also in this ordinance well now density is which is why I think we want to be I I do feel like we are if you're that we we don't want to be we have we have built in flexibility into this ordinance a tremendous amount of flexibility into this ordinance um so with especially through the waiver process um to accommodate that type of conversation when we have an actual proposal in front of us for a particular site can I can I ask one question on density coms yes can I just pick pick everyone's brain for one question on density so so in North Palm Beach when we adopted our Commercial Code we we proposed this this concept where a one-bedroom unit was counted as a half unit for density purposes right because density is usually based on the number of you know car trips the intensity of use right so there's a rational Nexus between um you know a one-bedroom unit being counted as half a unit for density and um kind of separate it out from from a two or three-bedroom unit and that's kind of a common thing that's being done in California um actually Martin County has it in some of their um Urban or not Urban but their cras I think Fort Meyers has it um so it's it's and it's a kind of a good way to encourage smaller units right we have a problem where people tend to build luxury units um but this this actually can somewhat solve a little bit of our housing crisis issues so um that's that's one density bonus that you know you can you can kind of give them a little bit of relief on but in the grand scheme of things when you're talking about things like traffic that that's not going to lead to you know any different traffic than the current density that's allowed if that makes sense yes yeah so just wanted to throw that out and see if youa so a good idea an an additional unit would not lead to additional traffic because an additional unit would come with an additional yeah at least one usually well so the idea is that like a one-bedroom unit right wouldn't lead to or you know two one-bedroom units would be the same as as a a three well a three-bedroom unit perhaps right um right like in West Palm Beach when there's you know rentals um there's a lot of young professionals where you've a three-bedroom or four-bedroom unit and it's everyone has a car and there might be there might be four or five cars in in a unit so yeah I think that's a good idea yeah and I I I would definitely favor affordable oh places to live because you know you build these luxury places those people are never here so they're not supporting the restaurants the stores you know they're tax dollars but they're no they're not supporting so that whole concept that is is supporting walkability right you're you're allowing you're typically getting smaller units they're going to be renters who are going to be supporting the local business and creating that vibrant walkable community that that I think we want when eating at the restaurants year round not just two weeks in the winter exactly yeah so um okay so what do we want to do um well um I would like to make a motion to change the definition of waiver or to first I guess strengthen it REM include our previous recommendations from the last meeting and to change the definition of waiver and to change or add the to the Civic open space that um the decision over whether to accept the medication of the space is approved by the Village Council and they have to accept that and the waiver as you previously stated it correct the way yeah SL a slight revision to that just to make make it clear that the Village Council must accept the def the the dedication has the right to has the right well no yeah I I think it needs to be affirmative that they must accept affirmatively accept it yeah but the change of the definition of waiver would be based on what the definition you said like you don't have to reread it we'll we'll capture it from the minutes to to strengthen the definition I guess yeah and then also the dedication would have to be accepted by the by the council right okay and what about any other that's okay that's what I'm trying to figure out how we could include what we just said um about working separately with this piece of property um well I think that comes through the process site plan process like we have the we'll have extensive hopefully discussions so we can go through when there's a proposal and we can go through the requirements and we go through our usual processes I mean that's a there's we start there starts with conceptual plan right I mean and then goes through had that that's a story and that's a significant process that we've got for resolving everybody's issue everybody's concerns I think well do the does the present code or just because the special exception use does that cover what they're talking about the ability for them to come forward with options for for the for the council to consider what they would want to do now would either have to be a change to the code AS written or what they or there is another path though that um when they were to come forward through the site plan process they could do a zoning text Amendment so they could propose like let's say that they had a great project and they wanted to dedicate a significant amount of park space but they needed an extra floor in a small area they would they could propose a zoning text Amendment um through through LPA and through the The Village Council and then the special exception option would allow them to to do any of the things to do that and it would do any of the things that were in the special exception is that how that works yeah would it no just what you said yeah it gives us all the under the we have the list of special exception uses so those would all be things that would be an option for the special exception process right has to find in find here okay okay so we're talking about the redefining the the waiver and strengthening it and um what else it was the the waiver and then the Civic open space or the dedication oh the dedication right and I think the other outstanding question was just whether or not to go forward as recommend as recommending it or re in what overlay is there property of the Paradise Park there is the Village Center overlay Village Center okay so then the then what you could do if you wanted to is you could you could recommend that the council adopt the US1 overlay and the Desta Drive overlay and continue workshopping the Village Center overlay with the property own we can always recommend that they don't have a recommendation they may they may not take it but it's it's so how would we put that forward then because I would recommend I would want to recomend to withhold The Village well or recommend we already have a motion on the table for with the changes to the waiver language and the changes to the um open space would you want to amend that motion in some way I I would not to that so your motion is to recommend approval of all three zoning overlays with the changes to the waiver language and that is the current motion that has been made okay they correct you so it need it needs a second and if there's of course if there isn't one make another motion you guys can well is it closed and yes if public comments closed if the Al I I but we closed we closed yeah okay um did you want did somebody want to make a second or do we do you the qu issue being do you want the waiver definition and the main and the dedication piece that's what right and except all three overlays at once right what you're saying I would I think it's very important that we do what we've been doing um and not St the pro stall the process they we are recommending they can not accept all of it so um okay is there a second or so that motion fails for lack of a second okay so okay motion fails for lack of a second okay so do we have another motion how would we put that other motion to um did you want to include what Marie talked about well part of what Marie talked about um and then the recommendation it's yes it's all a recommendation her two recommendations her two recommendations were that we strengthen the the waiver definition and also dedication require the counsel accept dedication of of land of the open space but then we have to add to that yes you would if you going to add to that are we accepting all three or do we want to um plus you have to remember to um adopt the previous recommendations from the the last one as well the previous recommendations including these two and the the subject we're talking about is the overlays the C this Center yes okay one being different Teresa you go ahead I just don't know how to put that um well we have three over help me here we have three over I do I I really do feel that I don't want to accept all three overlays so okay if I could recommend language a motion to recommend um the changes made by to the waiver language the changes made to the language regarding acceptance of open space and the recommended approval of both uh two overlays and um with the recommendation to hold off on the Village Center overlay for additional workshopping as well as the initial as well as the the board's initial recommendations from our original PNC thank you sounds good that that's why you're here thank you so much but who can repeat that well you can you can as read by the attorney as read by as read by the attorney we need to make a motion and I'd like to make a motion to approve to recommend to recommend uh how those items as read by the attorney well recommend that works oh shoot and I will second that okay um what we have on the motion we have right now is to recommend approval of lost it now um you'll have to help me with the number the recommendation this is yeah ordinance number oh okay2 okay the motion on the floor is to recommend approval of 1-24 with the conditions spread into the record by the attorney by the attorney yes yes well I'm not going to okay so do we have the second I can't remember oh we need a second I second okay okay so that is our um the motion we have to vote for and okay uh all in favor I I I all opposed n okay motion carries three to three to one three to one presentation presentation okay so we will find it here lost my place um okay so we will move on [Music] to 224 224 number three that's I'm looking for um item or ordinance number 2-24 and is Dylan are you sure thank you Mr chair um item number three on our agenda this evening is ordinance 2-24 which is an ordinance of the village counil with the village of taquesta Florida creating three new overlay zones within and over the village of tqu commercial corridors the Testa Drive overlay the US Highway 1 overlay and the Village Center overlay providing for the adoption of set overlay zones and their applicability to properties located in the underlying portions of the C1 C2 C3 and mu zoning districts providing that the zoning map of the village of taquesta be amended to reflect the adoption and applicability of each overlay Zone providing a conflict Clause separability Clause effective date and for other purposes um we just workshopped the substantive text of the zones this would be imposing those zones uh within the village okay and J just a a quick overview um obviously this this uh will be a little bit different than we are expecting due to the previous ordinance um but we're just codifying the the new overlays within our zoning Maps as Dylan said so the first one here is a Testa Drive overlay uh it's the one in blue here mhm um our next one is the sorry US Highway One overlay which is the one in hashed green um mostly along us one and then the next one here is the The Village Center overlay um as you guys previously discussed uh you know covers the Paradise Park property um there really aren't too many other large developable Parcels within there um but uh you know based on the previous motion I believe you the path forward would be just to to recommend approval of of the other two overlays and hold off on adopting this overlay okay and comments Marie yeah um so the reason this map actually is a good example of why I opposed the previous um changes to take this out because this is the middle of the Village um and also it's not just Paradise Park this is lots of of this covers a huge swap of land um including we've got tqu part of Testa Drive we've got Bridge Road and importantly I think very importantly Old Dixie which was also something that we covered extensively in the shet and we're looking for aesthetic improvements too which is what the the overlay the point of the overlays were to get us a beautiful Village um so I think this is um this exam exemplifies why I think it's important that all of them move together so that we don't have a segregated Village okay and Jeanie did you have any comments on this this second no okay and Teresa okay I don't either okay I'm opening to public comments Mr Frankle does he need to State his name and address again please state your name and address again live at 405 Ocean one lane in Juno Beach thank you thank you for your time so it's and with all due respect um this Village Center it's all built it's all built out a majority of it's residential so a lot of this doesn't apply to probably 90% of that map or 80% of that map but you have this and I applaud you for your decision the last thing you have a significant Village Center that will be can be the focal point of Testa and I can tell you if you move forward with this overlight we will be opposing it legally it's G to happen so or we can work together like you've you know made the a very you know I think I applaud your decision of of of directing staff to work and so we have a win-win situation here um to just keep moving forward with the overlay district with VAR waivers that are insignificant and of no value to us creating absolutely no value to us so you know eliminating a front porch or changing a balcony and that there's no value to the developer in that um we give you a huge Park you give us a porch like where's the logic there right so it just doesn't make sense um and to not allow certain businesses that are formula businesses that create jobs create places for local people to work even though they're a formula business is shortsighted and quite frankly you know hurting our property value so yes it is an integral part of of what you've created here but the majority of it's residential sure Old Dixie Highway is a is a meth it's terrible it it should all get blown up and rebuilt but that's not going to happen so fast but but Paradise Park is empty and it will become something significant if the village works with the developer to make it happen and creates variances and waivers or not EXC not variances waivers where it's a win-win so thank you any other public comments Mr perco and if you'll state your name and address again for the record okay hello again Phil perco 300 250 Main Street um I just you know I was raising my hand back there I was anxious to speak but I I'm glad I get to now um I I I disagree with a few things uh the you Treasure Coast did this overlay and know I've sent you some of the screenshots Jay and they recommended incentives I they do this all over the place some of it looks cookie cutter doesn't mean Treasure Coast is right you know doesn't I mean they could be wrong about things the road's very debatable to this day whether it should be three lanes or two right there's there's a lot of debate about a lot of things and uh this is uh Mia is that how you pronounce your name maio maio excuse me sorry I think you said it right you know we're human beings we sit down and talk that's how things get done in the world and it's a very complicated project we're in complicated times and uh we want to do something right nothing nothing great happens nothing comes easy without working hard at it and if we want to do something great we got to work hard you got to put in the work and we want to do that um to my partner said if if not I mean we're perfectly happy doing an as of right project we can do an as of right project right now and make it work but the unfortunate thing with that is we can't provide a public benefit so we we can do a project right now and and be fine but I live in the community and I've talked to enough people that I know what's missing in the community and same with Jupiter everybody wish I wish we had a downtown like Stewart I wish we had a little downtown like hob sound we don't have it and so that's the only reason I bought the property and I called Tom because of his experience building I know he's a very efficient Builder he's very smart uh with money and uh if anybody could pull it off you know I'm probably more on the creative side of of the partnership so I really think that uh you know when you mention waivers we got all these waivers they can do whatever there's nothing in the waivers that gives us the right to do anything the only thing in the waivers gives the right for the council to pick winners and losers so if Five Below goes out of business or anybody goes out of business and you need a big formula business every time someone owns an owner owns that Center they're going to have to C to counsil and ask pick me a winner or loser it took me a year to get these guys to the plate to lease this property now all the powers in the council whether or not I'm going to be able to make this Center work so I think the community is not only made up of residents but you have commercial owners you have people investing real dollars and those real dollars I mean I've seen these budgets you got 60 70% of that money going to overhead so I mean I think there's got to be a really responsible approach and having some serious Common Sense on you know how to how to pull these things off and I definitely think there are three unique uniquely different overlays I don't agree with one overlay I mean I don't know if you guys have got coffee at perk or been a gallery grill that is distinctly different where seab Brook is and Constitution Park than where we're at and if you're on that main commercial Corridor you know that's distinctly different it's a lot louder it's a lot faster there's a lot more traffic and there's a lot more density so um you know just getting back to understanding Treasure Coast I mean I encourage you to read it uh if you haven't read it yet they distinctly say most municipalities this is what we recommend incentives incentives could be density height sight set back there could be a trade offer you know incentivizing developers to sponsor infrastructure projects that the municipality may or may not have the funding to do so again I I I think there was some inaccuracies on the previous round of conversations and uh you know how I feel thank you okay thank you okay uh we'll could I ask one question okay the um either one of the commenters please um I would like to know if it's your view that it's impossible under this code update for you to achieve a reasonable investment backed expectation on your property I I would think that under the zoning overlay that's proposed we would not create a signific specific benefit that wasn't my question my question was is it um impossible for you under this code update for you to achieve a reasonable investment back expectation it's going to be really difficult okay thank you impossible is not a fair word but difficult thank you when you asked that question were you when you say impossible impossible with a Civic benefit andoss under the code update that were're we were considering I would agree with Tom I think it's G to make it very difficult and when you're dealing with institutional lending or investors or other business potential partners that would come in and maybe lease the space or your selling space this code creates a level of uncertainty that no one's going to really get comfortable with right away because the first question we always get or if I ask if I'm going to buy a piece of property is it as a right how's the council what's the municipality's view on development those are basically the first questions you always ask because if you're going to risk money like thank you know one of the things we're blessed on this site is if we had bank if we had financing on this project right now I mean it would be a totally different conversation but we're not under that pressure at the moment but if we were this this you know it you know it' be a lot a lot different but the uh when you add up all those factors you're just creating a level of uncertainty and again you're going to affect the quality of the type of investment you're trying to bring into the into the uh Community I mean nobody want I mean everybody wants to do a spectacular job no one wants to get ridiculed could I ask one other question so you mentioned uncertainty a few times could you identify for us where I mean because we are interested in making sure that the code is clear and there's not uncertainty so could you identify for us where you think there's uncertainty let's hypothetically so you want to let's pick at that the that survey the citizen survey saw a lot of uh responses about a grocery store hypothetically and they want an alternative to Publix so call it Trader Joe's Whole Foods whatever the case may be and you you actually are with Amazon and you approach me hey Phil I'm I'm interested in your site is it as it right no it's not what's the process okay here's the overlay and this is the process then I come to you well okay what going to cost us a half a million dollars to develop drawings we got to go in for conceptual presentation because they changed the format before you used to be able to go in and meet and not into the public so you didn't have to have polished materials because staff typically like someone like Jay would have the vision right away of what you're trying to do because they're white boxes they're just massing models but now we have to go directly to a conceptual presentation so now the public sees it so you have to give them enough Vision in order to give them Vision you have to spend more money on very nice renderings and a very professional presentation you got to hire land planners you got to hire land attorneys so what's happening now with this overlay without incentives in the overlay like Jay mentioned you got to get a codex Amendment maybe we got to get a variance you know we're not sure yet because what we're trying to do for the community requires a very creative approach and it costs money so you're creating a condition with this overl With No One S us where it creates this uncomfortable with everybody that's involved okay so would you feel comfortable investing not knowing you're going to get approved would you okay thank no I mean is that already question thank you Mr per I answered your question thank you okay well we're closing public comments and any other comments or are we ready to are we ready to proceed I believe you are okay right yep yep so we're g to do something very similar because oh we can do another yeah you have to motion to prove this yeah this is a different it's a different different motion this this is over the overlay the maps this is the overlay right so the motion based on the previous motion would be to adopt the village I mean the um taquesta Drive overlay map and the uh US1 overlay map Into The Village's um zoning map official zoning map and now we don't need to state that we want to withhold The Village one that's just understood okay we don't need to say that that we want to recommend accepting um the two overlays us one and two okay but I need motion no okay I'll make a motion okay to accept the two overlays for us one recommend recommend the two overlays for us one andest drive tester Drive okay okay second second okay all in favor I all oppos may okay okay three two one motion passes any other sta comments I just quick staff comment just wanted to do a quick introduction here from Meg wble she's our new planner um she's been here almost a month now right three weeks probably yeah wow and so she'll be um helping out a lot at meetings and presenting in the near future okay great welcome thank you I'm looking forward to working with all of you great okay and are we you ready to adjourn uh I have nothing further I think a motion to adjourn would be appropriate I would make a motion to adjourn second all in favor I all opposed motion pass passes we are adjourned