okay it's 5:30 July 18th 2024 we're calling the meeting of planning and zoning board for the village of taquesta to order Meg would you take roll call please yes Leslie Dasher here Teresa magio here Elizabeth shower yes here Sher Ambrose here Jean M Downey here Mar Theory here Marco Valdez here Jared Gaylord here thank you okay and we all have agenda is everything okay is everything okay I'll make a motion to approve the agenda second all in favor I all opposed motion passes and the meeting minutes for the previous meeting for June 20th yes and U I would like there some corrections there is a correction uh Marco Valdez alternate number two was here yes and that's not noted and then um Jared Gaylord came in later and that isn't notated either yes so yeah and um chair Dasher Cherry was not here yeah Cher Dasher gave us a few updates so we've already uploaded them on the website it's just you're probably not seeing when the agenda you got but but I think we've already taken care of them but appreciate that it's a software glitch okay I'll make a motion then to approve the minutes for June 20th 2024 I'll second it all in favor I all opposed minutes are approved okay we'll move on to our only agenda item which is SPM 3-24 and I'm sorry was that 3-24 yeah 3-24 yes okay Mr stepanos if you'd like to come to the podium and state your name and address for the record please and uh chair I'd like to take a moment and swear in the applicant for this item if you could please raise your right hand repeat after me do you swear or affirm under penalties of perjury and the laws of the State of Florida to tell the truth whole trth say nothing but the truth very good members of the board have you uh if you have had any expart communic ations with the applicant or have conducted any site visits regarding this application i' ask that you disclose it at this time we all drive by it drive by we did see okay it's like going to Publix yeah very good thank you so much okay if you can state your name and address for the uh my name is Frank danielli I live at 100 Southwest peacock Boulevard in Port St Lucy I'm the director of marketing for soal Group LLC and I'm speaking on behalf of Glen Stefanos who's the owner of the building for the drive okay could you speak into the microphone please thank you yes like to start by saying good evening to the board good morning it's I I don't think that microphone is working I don't either I'll speak louder thank you I'm hard of hearings I apologize I understand that me too um as it says we're just seeking uh minor site plan modification just to paint the building and to also paint the concrete sign on the corner that everybody has to see when they're driving in from the East side and uh our feeling is that you know from the East side when you cross to TOA and Cypress that really feels like where you're entering taquesta and right now we have a building that's structurally solid but a tired out exterior and we want to upgrade it and we look very much into probably the most popular and then sedate you know colors that we think would blend in very well and and give a good look to the to the uh building okay okay and do you have any questions does the board have any questions but if I can interrupt uh Meg Meg was going to give a quick presentation as well oh I see okay was kind enough to bring in yeah when you print things they don't the colors don't always look the same they look a little darker on the print so I've got some swatches from Sherwood Williams and I attached them to the back I'm sorry I don't have a folder for everybody oh that's fine so thank you for allowing me to present 307 Testa drive this is a minor site plan modification located at the corner of Testa drive and Cypress this building currently has a yellow facade with a green roof the applicant is looking to improve the aesthetic by painting the building Sherwin Williams White and the roof with Sherin Williams iron ore this will require a site a minor site plan modification for Section 2253 which enables the Planning and Zoning Board to Grant final approval on aesthetic modifications to exterior building color or finish when not accompanied by any other site plan location here we have an aerial photograph of the proposed location you can see to Quest drive to the South and Cypress to the east here are your current conditions if you are on Cyprus Drive this is what you would see looking to the west and the other two are from the vantage point of De drive here are the proposed paint colors a nice rendering that was provided to us again you have Cypress Drive and then the bottom two are going to reacha uh criteria for review the board is going to be looking at Harmony with other buildings harmonous surroundings the facades method of harmonious design inappropriate building styles garage design exterior forms and use of symbolic colors exterior storage and display of merchandise so for the harmonous design this is your surrounding sites on the bottom right here we have 307 to Quest to drive to the north we have the beach house vet and then to the West Warehouse condo the beach house vet has a similar aesthetic as what you see before you being proposed it's got a dark roof with a light facade and then Blair House Condo actually faces is Willow Road so the southern property line is very lushly landscaped if you were coming down to quester drive this is what you would see immediately adjacent to 307 thank you for your time and attention thank you okay does the board have any questions question Jean is that asphalt the roof uh that is a tille right does look like T looks like it looks like asalt but it's tile it does look like tile as it's it's it's it's it's it's pitch it's a you know it's a you know a regular flat roof pitch like you know yeah it's the old it's a green mansart around the perimeter of it but the flat roof flat roof and the mansard is currently green green is that being replaced no just painted painting painted the green yeah that'll be the iron or color yeah beautiful but I just just looks like this closeup looks like pass I just wonder how no yeah painting I like it it's beautiful it's really great very very nice thank you thank you very popular with the multi-million dollar homes and not trendy you know it'll look good for a long time okay are there any other questions okay are there public comments Meg do we have any public comments no not for this item okay and um no further com okay um I guess the only thing I have to say is it looks very nice looks fresh clean and great um I would ask that maybe for the future if maybe you might spruce up the Landscaping a little bit freshen up the Landscaping we're going to great I'll just submit that we fix the irrigation lot work we're going to we going do we we submit that future you know your new colors will make the Landscaping look first so it' be nice to see that in the future so well you mentioned that in your permit that you were going to be coming back yes yes good good okay okay uh there's no other we're closing public comment and uh this I'll make a motion to approve SPM 3-24 I'll second that all in favor I I all opposed motion passes thank you thanks you're very welcome okay if there are no other comments where we can adjourn okay okay a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion all in favor I I all opposed we're adjourned okay and we go around with the next meeting and it is 5:39 July 18th 2024 we will open the meeting for the local planning agency of the village of taquesta Meg will you take roll call please of course Leslie Dasher here Teresa maio here Elizabeth shower here Sher Ambrose here Jean megal Downey here marce Safari here Marco Valdez here jarro Gaylord okay and has everybody had a chance to review the agenda yes okay I'll make a motion to approve the agenda I'll second all in favor all opposed agenda is approved uh the last month's meeting minutes and that might well we need to um address that Marco was here and that at and that Jared was um he was here he was a little late no he was he was on time for this one he was late for the first okay she's a stickler we do read these things okay was that also on the well Meg did correct those as well yes we adjusted the minutes after otherwise I'll make a motion to approve the minutes with the corrections I'll second it all in favor I all opposed meeting minutes are approved okay we'll move on to our only agenda item ordinance 8 8-24 living shorelines bulkheads seaw walls and Phil and Jay are you presenting this I am I think Dylan's gonna read the ordinance first okay chair ordinance number 0824 uh is an ordinance of the Village Council of the village of taquesta Florida amending chapter 76 Waterway control creating an entirely new article for entitled bulkheads and Seawall and an entirely new article 5 entitled fill permits which new articles are intended to limit the use of bulkheads and sea walls in favor of promoting living shorelines and regulate the use of Phill waterw of adjacent property lines providing that each and every other section and subsection of chapter 76 water we control shall remain in full force and effect as previously adopted providing a conflict Clause a severability clause and authority to codify providing an effective dat and for other purposes this is a a fairly comprehensive living Shor lines ordinance and I'm going to pass it over to Jay to explain it to explain it yep so the The Village Council task staff with creating a living shorelines ordinance um it's actually been workshopped now um there's an initial workshop last summer um with previous staff and then when I came on I I've been workshopping it for some time had a meeting with the environmental advisory committee in December 2023 um and then a follow-up meeting with the Village Council in January of 2024 and from those meetings we created um kind of a draft ordinance and then brought that back to the EAC again last Wednesday um and so um it's it's pretty comprehensive when I started out the idea was to look at Living shorelines but then um as I kind of looked at the code I realized that there's a lot of things that were missing in our code that a lot of other cities have um so what we what we did is we really used Jupiter as the inspiration for the living Shoreline side of things and the code that we created is pretty similar to that but then um from my past experience and from the building official's past experience at North Palm Beach where there is a lot of canals waterways and lagoons we we kind of C crafted some um seaw wall regulations and fill permit regulations based on on what they have um so a lot of what we did um Tom Bradford who's the former chair of the EAC at the EAC meeting last week basically said this is a great example of things in our comprehensive plan getting put into our Land Development code right so there's sometimes where we have things in our comprehensive plan that are these aspirational goals that don't really make their way into the actual code so he said this is a pretty good example of that and and I'll show you later how how much we have that's kind of related to the comprehensive plan um but first I'll give you just a little bit of a brief introduction on living shorel I went to a seminar um I think it was in the winter time and got a few good slides about what living shorelines actually are um it's basically uh it's a shoreline management practice that provides erosion control benefits protects restores and enhances natural Shoreline habitat um and maintains Coastal processes through strategic placement of plants ston sandfill and other organic materials so Jupiter's code is really focused on mangroves and on RI wrap um to create the living shorelines there's aot lot of other methods that are um you know creating oyster reefs um and there's a lot of other things that that some places are doing but rather than you know you know go completely rewrite things we we kind of try to keep it pretty similar to what Jupiter's is um another thing is you know what is what is Shoreland armoring so that's um called hard infrastructure so seaw walls bulkheads retaining walls that that are used to separate land and water um approximately 14% of the US Coastline has been armored however however as you can see here it's about somewhere between 50 and 75% in Palm Beach County um so um pretty substantial number I've got another slide later that will show you um kind of what it looks like in the lahache river problems with Shoreline armoring it creates a fixed point in relation to rising sea levels and coastal flooding um so this is a challenge for resiliency um which I think we've worked to address later in the code I'll I'll explain this a little bit more um there's a loss of habitat doing an Abrupt transition from Shoreline to water so you're not really um having any kind of um sea life along the actual Shoreline itself um and then of course seaw walls will eventually fail and there's a high cost of repair replace them um at the seminar I went to you know they talked about how when you when you use living shorelines techniques to protect um seaw walls and bulkheads they typically survive much longer because they're getting less wave action and less less impact um another one on living shorelines so it you know protects um it improves stability and reduces erosion it's a less expensive and sustainable option traditional seaw walls I have a slide that will show you later that that you know just exactly how much you know it's more affordable than a traditional seaw wall um it provides essential habitat for fish and other Wildlife it improves water Clarity because it it can filter storm water runoff as you know mangroves do a great job at that uh creates feeding areas for waiting birds and encourages sea grass growth and reduces sediments and water um so here are some different Shoreline types so there's a natural Shoreline um kind of a rip wrap one and and a seaw wall so as you can see um right there um just how a seaw wall will kind of prohibit sea life at the at the actual Shoreline itself another you know example of of something that's a no living Shoreline one that's kind of got a partial living Shoreline with rip wrap and some Mangrove and then a fullon living Shoreline that's that's you know fully Mangrove um this is um a slide that just shows how living shorelines support resilient communities um here's a cost comparison so this is by the city of Fort Lauderdale they they've actually got quite a bit of material out there about living shorelines um as you know they've probably have the most canals in in Florida they're certainly up there um so it shows at the top there that the the cost of a living Shoreline in comparison to seaw wall is is more affordable and all of those example Shallow Water Deep Water high high wake low wake areas so in terms of to Quest the code we do not currently have any regulations regarding bulkhead and seaw wall construction or the placement of Phill on proper waterw of property lines so it's difficult and challenging for a building department to regulate the construction of bulkheads and seaw walls without having toine regulations um uh in 2015 the town of Jupiter adopted new regulations that required some elements of living shorelines to be installed um when bulkheads or seaw walls are replaced um really important to point out that it does not require anything to be done to existing bulkheads revetments or natural shorelines it simply requires mangroves a rip wrap to be installed when a new project is being constructed or there's substantial replacement of an existing one so this does not impact anyone that has an existing seaw wall we're not going to come in and say you got to do anything um also of note in 2019 the village of North Palm Beach underw an extensive rewrite of its bulkhead and seaw wall code with the assistance of a local Coastal engineer Al Gerwig and Associates um I was working there at the time and um it's interesting so we actually went out and hired Alan gerwick because he's he's local to the area he knows he knows the area but he he was um I think in Wellington so he's not a person that was going to be doing a lot of projects there like Charlie eanger is a really well-known local Coastal engineer we wanted to kind of get an outside person that would be you know kind of unbiased and so I think he did a really good job of um of writing that and so we use the Jupiter code and in some instances that North Palm Beach code that um really they paid they paid you know a fair amount of money for him to do a really good study so we can kind of get that work for free yeah so here's a you know the lockah hatche river um just showing you know how how we share it with Jupiter so you know it only makes sense to to kind of mirror their code or at least be somewhat consistent to what what they're doing or what they've already done um so I've got seven different issues in the code I'm going to kind of walk through each one um the first one is hardening the shorelines so in our comp plan right now it says that bulkheads and seaw walls shall be permitted only to stabilize disturb shorelines or to replace deteriorated existing bulkheads or seaw walls so this is saying that if you've got a natural Shoreline you're supposed to keep it that way however there's really nothing in our code about that because our code has nothing about bulkheads and seaw walls so um another the other um policy there 6.17 says that um The Village shall only consider hard structure such as seaw walls only when other options are unavailable so we we basically codified this in in the new code by saying that bulkheads and seaw walls shall be permitted only to stabilize the Serb shorelines or replace deteriorated existing bulkheads and seaw walls um and the second part there um we clarify that properties with natural Shoreline shall attempt to utilize living shorelines techniques to stabilize Shoreline in Li of armor armoring with a bull cutter seaw wall and um in order to um do so they if they were to want to do so they would have to apply to this board for a zoning variance so everything in our waterways code chapter 7 6 has because it's in the residential zoning code variances have to go to the pzb um I actually had originally drafted this to say that the building official and myself could if we consented we could agree to um allow them to armor armor that natural Shoreline wrap with a seaw wall however the EAC I think really did a good job by pointing out that it's kind of a tough thing for us to to Grant um even Marie called me today and said you know what's the definition of a St of a disturbed Shoreline and EAC asked the same question it's really hard to Define what that is so um the EAC and and even myself kind of came to the conclusion that it probably makes sense just to make it be a zoning variance rather than be like a staff approval because it's very subjective and kind of arbitrary well then who's going to educate us on so we will still um you will still get a staff recommendation on those so the building official or myself would would say whether or not we support this or the zoning variance or not the AC did come to think of it they did want to to clarify that that the building official and Community Development director should provide a written recommendation that was like Wednesday and I I updated this in like a day to get it on this agenda so I forgot to put that in but um if you'd want to that that'd be a great addition to the code yes CU then the building official particularly they know construction techniques I've learned a little bit of you know I'm have like a high school level they've you know they' got Master's level and this stuff so also feel free to jump in and interrupt me anytime I forgot to mention that oh don't worry when we get into the nooks and grannies I can do it in the middle too because there's just there's a lot of stuff so jump in anytime and interrupt me okay I did have a question about the um when a a homeowner decides that well my Shoreline is Disturbed I need a bulkhead or something and and they go to the building department and or you whichever um at that point either of either Department might just say no you don't qualify so then it never hits the Planning and Zoning it would only be if there's a possibility but if if if the building department looks at it and they say you didn't even try you know then it wouldn't go any further that's a that's a great question and great point so a lot of times when it comes to zoning variants people will do something that requires a zoning variance and staff will say you know you're welcome to apply for the zoning variance but we don't think there's really any anything backing this zoning variant we wouldn't expect this to get approved you know you're you're welcome to apply right because we can't prevent them from applying but we can certainly and especially if you codify that part where the billing official or Andor or myself provide a recommendation we could at that point even say just the heads up we don't think you have a valid case we were going to recommend denial of the zoning variance we we've all had hard times with variances we spent many hours over the variance and somebody would be viewing the site and that's when they'd say you didn't even try so then and then then we would have that history that we would be given that history to look at that that the building official does not feel that this does feel this person has more options and then we would okay yeah and we would and we would likely ask for um a letter or some sort of analysis from a coastal engineer stating that there's severe erosion happening due to wave action or due due to some unique circumstance and that you know some some excuse for why a living Shoreline wouldn't work and why an armored Shoreline would would be necessary okay um here's the slide I mentioned earlier so this shows that we're um now this is not just taquesta this is Jupiter and on Incorporated Palm Beach County too but um this is something jup District did in 2013 with 65% bulkhead 14% Rock 21% natural um I I believe it's still pretty similar to this just from from an eyeball um the other issue is establishing seaw wall and bulkhead setback so again we don't have any code so we wanted to establish seaw wall and bulkhead setbacks the code says that when seaw walls and bulkheads are being replaced more than 50% of the replacement cost um so this is basically what we Define and most codes Define as like substantial construction they would then have to meet these new standards so somebody if if someone was doing a minor repair of their seaw wall and it was less than 50% of the cost of to to put in a new seaw wall they wouldn't have to meet the new standards um but if they if they do have to meet them um the code says that new seaw walls bulkheads cannot be constructed beyond the rear property line however an existing Seawall may be constructed or reconstructed 18 in water side of the property line so Jupiter and North Palm Beach both allow replacement 18 in water side of the property line and that's because when you replace a seaw wall you have to replace it water side um just constructionwise um I don't I don't know if I've ever seen it happen where someone takes one out and puts one in it's just it it it's a mess if you if you try to so because of that you want to give them a little bit of leeway to to build outside of it and 18 in is generally pretty pretty negligible amount so it's you know not not making too much of an impact um and the code says seaw wall cap shall extend no further than three feet from the wet face the bulkhead so people will sometimes you want to have a little bit of a seaw wall cap um where you can walk on it um but you also don't want it to be you know 10 feet wide so people are putting up you know tables and chairs on it and expanding expanding their property line mhm I have all right the three feet I'm looking for my notes um because I have a lot of questions on this whole thing the three feet how do you adhere it so when someone comes in to how do you adhere it to the W I mean do I I mean it's 3 feet at here's the wall it's three feet out okay so you can't have it just sitting there like it's it's got to be how are you going to bolt it to I mean yeah I mean they there's construction techniques they can use to to kind of canal lever it out we need to be specific on how I mean 3 feet is kind of to me a lot of feet I mean it could be two feet but I I mean but shouldn't we be specific because I can't I have to start from the beginning but shouldn't shouldn't we just say to them how you know how to adhere it to the wall would there be engineering reports would the wall have yeah yeah but the thickness of but in the ordinance you need to be specific so there's some stuff about construction techniques and and during the building permit process the building department will will look at anything to make sure it's structurally sound okay so if if there was some instance where it looked like it wasn't structurally stable on the underside of it they would they would catch that um so I it's it's 3 feet in North Palm Beach and I don't recall there ever being issues with with them people being unable to do it there 3 feet was like okay all right can't from all right go sorry no problem um issue number three is establishing seaw wall and bulkhead height so um this is really kind of a resiliency thing so um we have a few few different policies in here which basically say that we shall in increase Community resiliency um you know to to deal with the impacts of sea level rise that we shall um use strategies to increase Community resilience and protect property infrastructure from the impacts of climate change sea level rise changes in rainfall and extreme weather events we shall use best utilize best practices and initiate mitigation strategies to reduce risk of flooding and coastal areas from high tide events storm surge Etc so um when North Palm Beach did that that code analysis the engineer and staff looked at king tide level data um as as everyone I think is probably aware it seems like King King Tides have increased yes they yeah you fairly substantially in the past few years and then they also looked at sea level rise projections I believe it was out to the year 2050 or so so they were looking at Future sea level rise basically until the end of the lifespan of uh of of you know seaw walls and so they use that to kind of establish um appropriate MA minimum and maximum seaw wall Heights some people will come in and they'll want to build massive seaw walls I've I've heard and seen examples of people wanting to build you know wealthy people in South Florida and Miami you know these huge seaw walls um and then some people may want to build their seaw wall too low so the the analysis they did basically said that the minimum seaw wall cap should be about four feet um and that the maximum should be about 4 and 1/2 ft that's in the X and X500 so the nonf flood zones um and then in the special flood Hazard area which is the AE Zone I think it's roughly about 50% of our our Waterfront areas or AE Zone maybe a little more um those areas can have uh a seaw wall cap an additional six feet higher so up to 5 ft um so the the findings from from that study they did was basically you know four and a half feet in the non-f flood zone area five feet is is an appropriate kind of maximum height but that four feet is is generally a good minimum to have so then compatibility between properties this is something that our our building officials dealt with in the past um from his time in North Palm Beach um you've got a situation where people are building their their bulkhead and seaw wall higher than their neighbors's property so um you know what we did is there's some design criteria here so you have to um use the same material and type as the one as your seaw wall cap so you can't build this beautiful seaw wall and then you know make it look ugly on your neighbors property um so it should have a minimum a finish appearance equivalent to or better than painted concrete stucco um also there can sometimes be erosion issues um so what we did is we said that seaw wall caps that are higher their neighbor property shall provide a drainage plan to demonstrate there's no sheet flow of water and no kind of major erosion issues and in that case the building official has some discretion to kind of work with them to um to to make the properties a little bit more compatible um maybe grade wise or with a retaining wall or um some sort of construction technique um issue number five is how how do we actually incentivize or or create living shorelines um so here's some examples I think these are all really in in kind of Jupiter area um some rip wrap um and then some rip wrap M grows so our um housing policy says that we shall utilize management practices which will alleviate residential water pollution um we shall revise existing code Provisions related to water quality Shoreline stabilization um that we shall um cooperate with other agencies um protecting the resources of lockah Hatchi and in in River Lagoon um by U participating in the development of esterine policies that are consistent with present management so of course with jup Jupiter already having living shorelines um you know this is kind of you know being a good neighbor with what what Jupiter is doing um and then the last one says that we shall continue provide for the protection of esterine water quality and resources in our code of ordinances so um what we did here is really really pretty much mirrored what what's in the Jupiter code I simplified it a little bit more I know if you've looked at the way we drafted it it's not the easiest read um but believe it or not I simplified the way the Jupiter's was written it was a little bit even even funkier than the way I WR wrote it um so what we did is we said that when a new bulkhead is constructed or when an existing one is replaced 100% of the bulkhead or seaw wall shall be faced with rip wraps of course that excludes a portion where a dock or Pier goes out um within um two years of final inspection of a bulkhead at least 10% of the shoreline shall be comprised of established Mangrove so the idea is that you line the the shoreline with with rip wrap and then you at the same time are are simultaneously planting mangroves and there's a groin period and that those are supposed to kind of take hold and grow over time so within two years of of construction of that bulkhead you should have 10% of the shoreline as mangroves if not there's kind of a punitive section that basically says if if you don't have 10% of it established um you have to plant 20% mangroves you know right there on the spot this two I have a question about this the two-year permit um period so over the course of that two years are there incremental inspections as the work is being done they're supposed to provide um monitoring yeah pictures and monitoring updates um so you know it's it's always tough to deal with projects after it's completed but we we we do it somewhat on um like vacation rentals we do like annual inspections um so it's um you know if this code is adopted we would likely have to create like an Excel table that has every permit and you know followup dates on it just to make sure that we're we're kind of tracking it and that people are staying on on top of it um but there there is some reporting that they would have to do to us and if they were to not follow that you know we'd have to you know we'd obviously reach out and work with them but if we have to we could always go through code enforcement um also properties that are designated on our Shoreline exemption map which is basically the the few canals we have in the village are exempt from installing rip wrapper mangroves this is because they're generally pretty narrow and people tend to line the um line the seaw wall with their boats the the because of the narrowness um the seaw wall itself ends up becoming basically a dock so it's very difficult and onor for people to do living shorelines there um Jupiter's code does the exact same thing as well I'll and I'll show you uh the map on the next page um also um where this is something we took from Jupiter code where rip wrapper mangr will disturb existing seag grasses or when another jurisdictional agency like the D or Army Corps denies a permit um rip wrapper mangroves would not be required um we don't want people to damage seagrasses and of course um you know if if Army Corps DP who kind of can supersede us say you can't you can't do RIP wrapper mangroves there it's hard for us to require it as well so that's in Jupiter code Che just from like a timing perspective for the applicant or the property owner would they need to go get their d permits first and then come to the Village or I yeah they they they typically do um and it's a long period for them um if you're ever hearing about this people will all the time like the Marine Contractors will blame blame things on the municipality but it's really the DP takes forever with a review um so yeah so they would have already gone to them and then come to us after the fact so so they go to DP first then when they get the approval from d EP they come to us correct although I mean if people are doing things right they'll go to both at the same time and say hey I'm designing this I'm I'm running it through DP I want to make sure that I can also get it approved by the village as well so um doesn't always happen that way um we've had I've seen instances where people go and they say hey this is approved by DP why isn't the municipality approving it sorry we have different standards but wouldn't it be advi wouldn't it be advised ible for them to go to the D first since it takes them longer to approve because in reading this I mean I I have section I mean I I I spent like 7 hours on this ordinance um they we need to put a time limit I mean um give them a year you have like two years or three years I'm like that's too long let them do the hard part first let them go to D first if that's going to take longer then come to us then you have a Planning and Zoning meeting and then you know that's a lot quicker and then then they can't make us the bad guy yeah no and that's typically the way it's supposed to happen it's just the the Marine contractor will will sometimes it's a marine contractor just taking a long time to get a permit in and they'll blame us when it's really the DP that's holding it up right so if if someone if someone has hired a marine contractor to do a seaw wall the the resident doesn't know who's holding the permit up they just know it's being held up in a permit but I think her point is so if they're going to go to d right they can still come to us and get your opinion without actually getting to on the agenda and that would be the right process so I don't think anything in here means that they they shouldn't go to the D first they should just be engaging staff on a consultative basis yes but but I I would suggest that they do that Why Pay why pay for all of this for us and then because I want to put a time limit on it so if if if if we approve it and it's still sitting at D and it takes them six months they've already lost six months of a timeline where I'm saying I want you to have one year from the time we approve the permit to get your job done so they've lost six months because of D so that's why I am suggesting they go to DP first then after they get that then they come and then as long as everybody approves it I mean you have one year I mean we need to well that that is the typical process so they they go to their D EP permit before they come to us we won't our building department won't approve something if it doesn't have that DP permit first right all right right so they wouldn't have our approval they wouldn't have our approval yet but I think what Sher was saying is so they they even though they go to the D with their permit they should check with the village first right to make sure that what they're doing is approvable right right so so for instance you wouldn't want someone to come in go to DP get it get a seaw wall That's approved with no rip wrapp or mangroves on it and then they come here and we say oh you need rip wrap and mangroves and then they say oh geez well now we have to go back and modify our our DP permit which send back in the the queue so I mean there's certainly an education component to it too I mean we we need to get when or if this passes educate the community if you're updating a bullhead or seaw wall um come to the Village make sure you're compliance with the village code before you even go to those state agencies um but but it's you know it's it's hard for us to know who's doing these things because they they'll sometimes they'll just go to DP without us so we can't read mines and well I am right so so the 50% um that you would need to if you were going to do any work on your seaw wall and you're saying if it's more than 50% of the cost of doing an entire seaw wall of course all the seaw walls are contiguous yeah so I don't I don't know where that information comes from it would be it would be the replacement cost on your property just property line to property line yes so in your instance with your we wouldn't count we wouldn't count the adjacent condos just just your property and that would typically be based on um you know the the the linear foot what the cost is from a for on an average for a linear foot of a seaw wall which our building department will typically have Marie uh spoke with me today and had a you know good suggestion to to put something in here that says that the village shall have an annual you know cost estimate of what that is um because we've we've seen it our building official I have seen it many times right where people will come in and say oh this is like $32,000 and we're like put a zero on that so so um it it is good to um believe me I I do know yeah to standardize that zero so just curious on how you figured all that out yeah all right so sorry we got sidetracked there um Shoreline exemption map so there's our our canals um issue number six is revetments this is pretty similar to bulkheads and seaw walls um so the code says that existing revetments may be replaced with a new revetment according to the following regulations um if you're replacing it 100% of it shall be faced with with mangroves and rip wrap you're already doing rip wrap so of course that's already there but you you still have that same 10% requirement from from the bulkheads um it says that an existing rip wrap that has clean materials can remain and be reinforced with new rip wrap so there are some rip wrap that's got you know maybe pollution polluted rocks or something in there so if it's got unclean materials and doesn't meet some of the criteria um you have to completely remove it and replace it with kind of that the clean clean materials um Again Properties on the Shoreland exemption map are exempt and we also have that same requirement that we put in for um bulkheads and seaw walls where we say that if you're that you shall um attempt to utilize living shorelanes techniques in lie of armoring it with a bulkhead or seaw wall and of course you have to get a variance um to to remove the revetment and replace it with a a bulkhead or seaw wall um film permit process so this is another one that we don't really have in our code um right now you know there's really nothing in there preventing somebody or preventing us from take or allowing us to take code enforcement action if someone were to bring dredge or F and extend their property so um we have a few things in the comp plan that you know kind of discourages dredging or filling um and Mangrove and Wetland areas or seagrass beds um and saying that we shall preserve and protect our existing seagrass beds and prohibit the disturbance of sensitive seagrass beds and in those three different sections um so uh we don't want someone coming in and kind of doing unpermitted fill work where they could damage our our environmental resources so um as I said we don't have any prohibition on this we used um or I I took what we used in North Palm Beach in this in this case um we actually had a few people who did this in North Palm Beach looking at you Dylan um he claimed someone in his neighborhood did at North Palm Beach um where they' actually come in and um you can get get the things called geot tubes now you can get U it's it's some sort of synthetic material where they will come in and they'll they'll take Dr and fill put it in a geot tube and then put it on your Shoreline and you can put certain things over it but it it's a kind of a cheap and easy way to extend your property line um but they do that unpermitted which of course could damage our our you know seagrasses and environmental resources so um we in North Palm we were actually able to use code enforcement to um kind of punish people that did that here without anything in the code I don't know that we have a way to do that so um we're basically saying that in order to do any kind of fill you either um you can do it when you're doing the 18 in waterw of a property for an existing seaw wall or if the building official and the community development director and I believe that you need to do a little bit of fill to create it or maintain a natural Shoreline or a living Shoreline um so the fill permit process it actually has to go to the Village Council to approve the fill permit there's public notice um and it goes to the neighbors within 300 ft I've had a few instances there in North Palm Beach where people would come in and um try and extend their property out a little bit for erosion issues or honestly some of it was quality of life um desires and um and the neighbors would typically come out and say we don't agree to this why would we ever want this to happen and the Village Council would deny it so I've never actually seen one approved um but it's a good process just to have in place for us to use code enforcement if we ever need to um variances so everything that we're creating in this code can apply for a variance so if someone were to say I can't do a 10% Mangrove on my property because it's going to obstruct this um the view of the sunset or any other reason that's not valid not a valid reason but they could try but if someone had a valid reason they could come in and seek a zoning variance for anything we're creating in here so um just important to remember that even though you know we're codifying some stuff we're creating some new standards there is always a variance process where people can can kind of get an out um if if something that we're creating isn't allowed um Jupiter's had their code in place since 2015 um I've talked to their staff you know they had a few little things that they'd like to tweak which I think I kind of tweaked in our code but for the most part they haven't had any real issues or challenges um the North Palm Beach code that we had some of those elements we used um everything seem to work work really fine um so you know all in all I think it's a good code but um happy to answer any questions okay I'm sorry I have plenty dig in go go to town okay I am looking at article four bulkheads and seaw walls um does the applicant need to have a coastal engineer for um the inspection and to when they're submitting the plans do they need to hire a Coast or should we put that in there under bulkhead under specification 76- 32 I'm sorry okay what was the question I'm sorry should they have a coal applicant have to have should shouldn't the applicant have a coastal engineer I'm sorry I'm married to an engineer so it's like always and I went I I mean I I looked up rip ws and I ended up on a government engineering website on rip waps that was over 400 pages and everything was archived and I'm like this is ridiculous so but I I mean it's it's like they're coming to us but they they need you know they need to be educated a little so so generally a lot of these things like the design of the bulkhead Walsh conform to recognize engineering standards those typically do require a coastal engineer if you want to clarify that you know a coastal engineer shall be um sign off on the plans um I don't see any reason why that's an issue and it's that's a good suggestion yeah I I I I I don't know how the rest of you but I I I really feel I mean this is just I mean this is one reason why I don't live on the river well I can say you can't do even a repair without an engineer or on any of it you can't present anything I know but it's better to have it in been there done that if it's not in writing not in writing it didn't happen I I believe the Florida building code requires it for for bulkheads and seaw walls but it NE it can never hurt to have it in our code I mean it's just it's a couple words okay they're going to need a a coastal engineer anyways because they're going to have to true we uh on that subject in North Palm Beach we actually had a coastal engineer that had to review all of the permits but we had a we had like a village engineer on retainer already and he was already um you know kind of plugged in on things but our the building official I thought that that might be kind of onerous here we don't really have a village engineer so we took that requirement out so we're relying on the building department to kind of double check all of the engineering stuff fortunately they're they're it's it's a strong building department okay what did we ever a hire code enforcement officer we have a new code enforcement officer from Palm Beach Gardens who's doing great all right get that actually was going to kind of be my question is if you had to get outside assistance to evaluate an application would the fees that you collect from this cover getting that outside Assistance or would this be something that's being you know subsidized people who aren't getting the benefit of that particular review that's a great question that is a great question it may be worth looking at the fee that you would charge for something like this if you need an outside expert like especially if they're asking for a variance well don't they have to hire the engineers I would think they'd have to yeah they would have to don't anyway um in you repeated some of that language where the actual cost well we'll get to public comment I was just responding oh okay um anyway U but that but they would be required to would they be required to hire their own so they'll have their they'll have their own Coastal Engineers but I think the question is if the village were to have an actual Coastal engineer factchecking their submitt documentation which I I think the building official feels that that's Overkill again because it's already gone to DP and because what they're doing has to meet the Florida building code they're they're competent at kind of checking those things um that it's a little bit Overkill but um I'm inclined to defer to the building official I just wanted to raise question that's a good question it's not a bad idea I mean okay all right now if you go down to this is where the three feet section 76 -33 number two see1 all caps shall extend no farther than 3 feet that's where I wanted to know is how are you going to adhere it I mean to me it's like sitting out there I'm trying to pull up that other seaw wall that was in because I was looking and I couldn't you didn't there was no and if there was an example I'm like okay I wish I'd provide a better example so that one yeah that one's not out too far that's that's probably 2 feet though well do they do they adhere it the way that you know with the with the concrete underneath there they again I would think that'd be what the engineer Fields has to be done because it have to be secured just saying I I'm being the devil's advocate here because I know how sneaky some people are I know but we can't determine how that needs to adhere but if you need to address something on how it's going to adhere to the wall you just don't want it sitting out there because then it's total liability yeah so so that would be part of the structural review from the the permit okay so so there will be detailed specifications of seaw wall construction the tiebacks right so you got a tie you have to tie the seaw wall back underneath um there how you're going to drive the sheet piles in um there's a lot of very complicated stuff that's part of that permit and um the structural element of that will will be included um and I've seen them I you've probably even seen seaw wall bulkheads I mean seaw wall wet faces Out 3 feet and it it's not as big as you think okay well that would be presented to us in the in the plan yeah the the building they would be looking at that the building department okay okay um on Section 76-34 living shorelines okay um where it says when a new bulkhead or seaw wall is constructed if Allowed by 76326 in parentheses or an existing bulkhead or seaw wall is replaced 100% of the bulkhead but what about the replacement section where there's the mangroves I mean how does that get addressed I mean what what happens to all of the they're replacing it and you've got the you've got mangroves there oh you're saying in the in the future yes so bulkheads and seaw walls typically live about 40 to 50 years but when you when you add living Shoreline elements like rip wrap and mangroves it extends the life substantially so I can't say that they would that that bulk or sew well would last forever but it's possibly something that wouldn't even need to be replaced for another 50 60 70 years um so I I I I understand the question but okay I don't know that it's a situation that will happen anytime in our in our lifetime all right so I'll I'll leave that for somebody else we'll be dead hopefully Grand okay um all right now on number this within two years of final inspection of the why are we waiting two years to allow some grow in time for the mangroves so it takes it takes time for them to establish and grow um and that's that's what Jupiter has done and they found it to be to be worthwhile but but they but they're already providing us with pictures right so they they should be installing them right away but there's a kind of a two-year grow period okay cuz it's to me it's very confusing I was like okay you know all right I agree it's not the easiest code to read or we'll be having we'll be having to hold some hands when people come in but a lot of this is going to be very difficult unless they do something about the boat speed well I can't imagine anything growing in a lot of areas well yeah that's the other thing and then problem yeah if if you go down further down in number three and it has here um you know uh but the minimum requirement of 10% has not been met Village staff may Grant a six a a a one-ear extension to the why one year why not six months you can make it six months I I mean I'm not trying to be nasty I mean you know but if if you make it less I mean then there's something wrong wrong if if it's not growing within 6 months yeah so I I I think a year is two is too long because they're already supplying you with pictures and why are you going to get you know you give them an extension how many times do we renew a permit I mean I I wait till we get to the permit stage I'm once you get the permit that's it no extensions you're done well I I I do hear you completely if you're if they're just being sloppy and lazy um but there there could be you could just plant stuff and then there's a storm two months later that or a boat takes them out BR it up but but that but they would have pictures to document that and then that would be re but then that might be the reason for the village to St to but that is to be understood but I'm saying but you've got some cases where you know it's just one year forget it I'll just but if you give them six months then they will just make sure you know I'm not trying to be a very nasty person but just difficult yeah yeah as long as you're not being just lazy about it and trying to get away with something then that would make me mad and we get no well you've got some people but you know but majority of the people are honest and you know I have to believe that I mean you could even say two six-month extensions instead of a year instead of a year you could break it out that way okay and and then that's it cuz yeah cuz then if you've done something at six-month period you can get the second one but if you're not doing anything then then you're done well as long as they've been trying yeah you know they because you're basically creating a relationship with this property owner I mean I mean you're going to be on a first name basis I I mean you know you might even know their social Security number before you all done know the grandmother's but you know it's it's like the monitoring and you don't have the staff and as you said you've got a Exel sheet but put a lot of the or you know the property owner it's their property I don't have the good news is months what's that I don't have any issue with two six-month extensions instead of year according to you because and then that's it and as long as they've been trying you know yeah but what do you mean that's it what's going to happen to them you find them they go to code enforcement you mean you would find them if the mangroves haven't grown why why haven't they mang why haven't they a million reasons I mean it just but if they're documenting it you I'm just I sat here and I'm I read this whole they're documenting it I mean and then they turn around I mean you know you document it and you say okay this has happened on this day okay so if you have the document ation I'm not going to be that nasty of a person and say okay you know I really don't care but if they're being honest and stuff but there there's like it's to me it's like too much of a resp too yeah we just don't have the staff I mean fortunately there's not going to be a ton of these right I would expect there just to be you know one or two a year oh yeah so I hope so that's a lot of money okay all right okay um okay um okay now we'll get down to section 76- 36 RI Raff and Mangrove installation number three says the property owner shall submit a Time Zero monitoring report to the Village what does that mean yeah that's my question so that's so that's after the the the inspection has happened on the bull cutter seaw wall they then have to um provide the mangrove planting plan to the village and then they have to submit a photo of what the existing conditions are at that point so that we know what they're starting from and so that's that's that's the start of the clock of that 2-year period so and then and then when that happens the 2-year period starts and that's kind of the Baseline for where where the growth should happen and and and then you know you're going to add that onto your Excel sheet and stuff like that so that you're monitoring the the property owner okay are these manres actually on their property they would no they would be out they'd be they'd be out in the're in the water they'd be out in the Waterway they're on the Waterway yeah so okay but it's still up to them to make sure they're growing correct okay okay when they're taking it's on on number four of the same section 76 36 I at the end I have here um we need to have a chart on some of these people so that someone on the staff will be able I mean when they submit the pictures I mean are C can you just scan them and put them in the computer on the Excel thing and then you know cuz it's like okay you know we're monitoring it's it's just a lot of yeah I mean we we'd have a shared folder and we'd probably create um a a subfolder for each for each um property and then have a master sheet tracking it we'd have to create some internal processes for monitoring it but again it's pretty similar to like vacation rentals which you have to go out and do annual inspections on even when there's staff change over and code enforcement there's still you know having to continue doing those things so um yeah we we we'll have to create a process and and honestly we'll probably reach if if this is adopted we'll reach out to Jupiter and say hey tell us how you've been doing this and then just kind of kind of copy or mirror what they've been doing we know their environmental staff and okay should be easy well on number seven I think it's a really good thing where you know the property owner is required and you know there's going to be a grass um a seag grass study but who's going to do the seagrass study so they'd get an environmental consultant to do that so you guys didn't you didn't see this one permit but um we recently had a the dock got a zoning variance at the Seaglass condos so they provided a seagrass study with that and it's pretty common when if someone's putting a like a dock out into the waterway that you'll have to do a seagrass study to make sure that you're not study SE yeah I've been listening to them for a long time and with and with Seaglass they only had the one dock area cross but we've lost most of our SE from again Bo speed yeah it's a big problem for for manatees obviously when it does say the property owner must submit the SE not well I'm I mean just asking well you know I mean they can go out and take pictures or whatever but they are they going to give you a thing from a biologist or it's an and it's an official report from a like a licensed environmental scientist that they actually go out and and snorkel or scuba okay okay let's go to section 76-44 expiration date renewal here's my favorite thing we're saying that the period is for two years from the date thereof so that's why I'm saying Stead two years a year but it's fine yeah no problem you know because they should have and then on number B the renewal of the permit prior to 60 days after its expiration how many renewals are we shouldn't we just limit the amount of renewals for a permit I mean enough is enough and remember these probably we probably won't even see one granted for this well I I understand that but you know I I mean to me you know I'm I'm sitting there last night and I'm like okay now if a hurricane comes and destroy you know everything is out you know we're not even going to look at this ordinance because you've got people that are rebuilding but you've got some people I mean that will just keep coming and and I'm sure in the building department they keep coming and asking for renewal of their permit and they didn't do anything I mean I'm looking at the house across the street from me for 7even months now on to construction I'm ready to go in and put up a wall um you know I I think we should just say to them that only two renewals I mean one renewal I mean I wouldn't want to limit renewals like or permits we live in a hurricane area yeah but that to me if you've got a hurricane all bets are off you're talking totally I mean after Hurricane Andrew you couldn't get a contractor up here I know but these rules will still apply if they're replacing the book yeah so we have tropical storms we have just regular storms but they could come in for a variance and I would approve it I mean because of the of the of the circumstances of but you've got people people that will just keep asking forment they do parts of their construction is that what they're doing just bits and pieces yeah so your issues with people who start and don't finish their work not with the actually having the permit renewed yeah I I I mean you know really I or do you have a criteria for does somebody actually go out before you renew a permit do you physically go out and see whether they've done anything I'm just asking say that again Liz if they R before you renew a permit does somebody physically check it to see if they've done anything before you renew per they haven't that's why they're renewing it or how does revoking the permit mid job address the issue that you fundamentally have with construction that takes too long the other dirty secret un permit renewal in Florida is that there's an emergency order in effect pretty much at all times I see Jared not his head um so someone can it's very easy to get any permit in Florida extended because there's an emergency order in effect at all times zika virus Corona virus economic recession I mean r out of hurricane in any Hurrican ran out of money because the insurance companies are just yeah insur the insurance crisis I mean the the the the construction industry in Florida lobbies the state and the Governor to always have an emergency order in effect so they just all they have to do is file an a request that way and it just automatically gets renewed dirty secret I would I would like to always say that there's options because I there's you see them on TV there's too many horror stories about bad construction having to be redone your construction person just do happen to me quit show doesn't show up now you've got to find somebody new or they can't get all the rocks for rip wrap they can't you know but if you have that there can be those problems you know that's a viable excuse not an excuse but that's viable because of of what's happening but but in the meantime you've lzy you know that you're going to have people that abuse I mean well yes yes but it's it's I I agree if people have done nothing then and as far as I'm concerned hold their feet to the fire but you know you do have to have options available for people where there are legitimate or put something there that you know um on how many renewals and this is for What seaw walls and this is for the fill permit process for 764 not houses but just the fill permit okay say one time could be granted one time what happens if someone needs a second and you've put in one time yeah I I don't know that I feel well I would just say twice and then then what well all of it says they have to show good cause yeah they're just not going to do it because they feel like it they have to show good cause for it so therefore that is what drives this what's good cause though well the building department that's there well yeah you know you have a hurricane that's good cause that's a good cause your contractor went had a business again that's a good cause that's you lost your job and couldn't continue to do it that year well that's that's a good I I I mean there's but who's to say what a good cause is you think it's really happening that much but well I don't know well this probably won't happen you know it's just it's just there but I I um I'm just bringing things up you certainly are well I'm sorry my mind was in overload this was a very big homework assignment apologize I apologize but you know what I mean it really gets you to think that you know like at at the end of this I'm like you know we should have had like a workshop with the Village Council us and and the environmental and have a a structural structural engineer um a coastal engineer just give us the whole education and you know well when when you were doing all of these ordinance um doing this down I mean do people abuse this I mean I'm I'm just you know well the fill permit process like I said I've never seen one approved it's really kind of put in place to prevent people from illegally filling property and if you don't have it I think it makes it tough to actually enforce things because the problem is so D would have um jurisdiction over the lockah hatchee and Army Corps would have jurisdiction over the the um inter Coastal Indian River Lagoon sorry but they don't always take action so the instances I said where we had problems in in North Palm Beach we went to the D and said hey these people are illegally dredging uh the irman river go get them and DP would say really sorry we got other stuff going on so I mean it's pulling teeth to get DP to do something so it's good to have just to have these in place so that you can enforce issues that come up but I've never seen one granted and I mean the criteria you see there it's pretty tough to even get what granted so this is kind of just a process that's in place to prevent people from doing it rather than to actually ever even issue a permit it's there to to prevent the problem yeah yeah because if it's not said or stated if it's if it's not if if the code is silent to the issue then you have no standing correct there you go yeah okay okay okay I'm done oh are you okay I mean I just I mean I need to tell you I had two glasses of wine after this it was by your you tell by my notse you can tell by those notes and Liz and and Bor I'll also say like this isn't like a extremely time sensitive thing so if you guys want to bring it back you know at the next meeting more than welcome to can you do that with like with everything and then we can yeah have to yeah you you you could you could vote to bring it back uh at a future hearing have wi I know you guys want to discuss this again right well I I I would just like to see I mean you said that Marie made suggestions Leslie I mean I I've done I don't know if anybody else but I I mean just to see a finished Pro I mean yeah I would like to have it come back and so I can get the Fel of the land what's changed I think there was one minor change yeah well no there was several we talked but I don't remember a change well Lesly brought stuff up one item was the recouping of Village's planning costs but you said your your building officials were confident that that was addressed so I don't think there's a change yeah all right that's fine you don't have to bring it back I'll save this forever well there might still be public comment I would guess yes we do have public comment yes okay oh that's right sorry I board comment no okay I think they were afraid to say anything after May haveen the floor for so long okay we're closing board comment we'll open the floor to public comment Meg uh Miss Pat Watkins 167 River Drive Mrs Watkins if you can state your name and address for the record please Pat Watkins 167 River Drive that's lot 45 Ina Country Club uh my husband and I have lived in the village since 1982 we and that's when we also purchase that lot um ours is one of the very few unul headed Lots and uh on the northwest Fork of the loah hatchee in the country club so my my first concern here is obviously um I I have a concern about notification of these meetings and it's subject matter having been a longtime resident former council member former mayor I attend a lot of Council meetings workshops I was unaware of the discussion of this even though it's noted you had workshops on the the subject now that's my bad if I didn't see it the council did okay yeah but still just the subject matter I mean um I would have missed this meeting if it hadn't been brought to my attention by a friend okay so I'm questioning whether notices are sent out to the property owners who might be affected by this discussion or any recommendations you make to council is it only when a permit is applied for that the 300 foot notification process kicks in which is possible with the large amount of turnover and reconstruction going on in my neighborhood I find it hard to believe that we don't have property owners that would be very interested in what's being discussed and possibly proposed in this ordinance back in 2006 and I believe it was Hurricane Wilma because it came from the West okay our lot um was impacted because our neighbor had a jet ski mored at her dock which broke loose oh that the wave action in the room during that storm was unbelievable wow that jet ski acted like a battering ram and ate out quite a bit of our lot fortunately at the time we contacted the village who told us to contact de we were um issued an emergency Shoreline stabilization permit and we were allowed to fill it within certain specifications obviously uh to replace that I'm questioning whether or not we would be able to accommodate such a circumstance under under this ordinance since it's already happened to us once and would we be permitting it through the village D both and others whatever I don't know in that my questions are specific to our property I understand that I we look for a meeting with Mr hup about that and how it affects us personally however I'm really concerned that not enough notification or information is out in the public about what's being discussed here that affects every Waterfront property within the village thank you thank you Miss MK you and to that point that's a a a great point you raised Miss Watkins we would not legally be required to notify every waterfront property owner but we certainly could have um probably done a better job putting stuff out in the in the Weekly Newsletter and social media kind of advertising that this is up for discussion and um we certainly could do that if the comes back for another meeting or if it goes the Village Council will'll put some more information out and then put you know kind of a summary of what what the code what the major code changes are thank you and I didn't know about this until last month myself so I didn't I didn't know about the workshop when was it last summer they initially had one in I think it was May of 23 um with Lyn Britt who used to work in the building department and then um there was a fall follow up in January with Council um a follow-up discussion presentation I gave a similar presentation to to what I did tonight without the code recommendations okay well I was shocked when this came up last last month I didn't know know about the workshop I would have been there okay Meg any more marcea FY Mar State your name and address for the record please Marine s um I live in the country cloud um I'm generally in support of this ordinance and I think that we're moving forward on this on the well-founded understanding that living shorelines are better for everybody both individual properties and the community I have a few areas where I would recommend some changes um in SEC the first one is section 7632 when we're talking about Disturbed shorelines um I've spoken Jay mentioned this earlier um we don't have a definition for that and I think that it's probably fair to assume that most of our sh are would be classified as Disturbed um so I think we should add some language here to the effect that Disturbed shorelines where there is proof that a bulkhead is necessary to protect the property um so that we're not doing not getting into an argument with the property owners about whether their Shoreline is Disturbed or not um the second point I have is on page three of the ordinance section 7633 um the minimum design requirements for sea walls this is the total cost cost of the repairs is less than 50% of the replacement cost um J also mentioned this and I think we should add here um The Village shall refer to an to an annual estimate of seaw wall cost per linear feet in deciding the sorry um in deciding that in fig making sure that the replacement costs that we have are a reasonable one so we don't have any um any monkeying with the numbers um and then I have 2.5 based on what um we were discussing before in subsection two in that same section the seaw wall caps not extending further than 3 feet um I think there might be concern there about light obstruction for the seagrass underneath to the extent that there is any um and I think we should probably look into that um to make sure that we're not giving people the ability to kill seagrass since the light won't go through whatever the decking would be um so I would recommend a change there to make sure that there's no seagrass affected there and if that requires a grass study we might need to require that there on page four in the same section in subsection four um the last sentence says the building official may require the modification of plans when it is determined that seaw wall caps and or retaining walls will lead to erosion or the degradation of adjacent properties I would strongly recommend changing May to shall um because this is a situation where we should not be uh neighbors shouldn't have to bear any costs here um they there should be no erosion that anybody is imposing on their neighbors or degradation of their adjacent properties so I don't I think I'm sure confident that our current building official would take make sure that that didn't happen but we don't want wishy-washy language in the statute here that makes sense so the um fourth one is skipping to page nine of the ordinance um this is section 7637 and subsection two in the inspection um it says at least 48 hours for the building inspector and if I I have one more point after this if I could just have a few more seconds um okay okay so the this is 48 Hours um my concern here is holiday weekends um if you have a holiday weekend and I don't want our building inspector to be blindsided or to have to come like necessarily have to work on a holiday weekend um so if somebody dropped something on them on Saturday and they're they want to start on Monday I think we might be able to make it business bu hours so that they can't drop something on them um in on the weekend um and my last Point number five in on page 11 this is in section 76-42 subsection B3 um and this is where the Village Council is um considering a fill permit um I think we should strike the word material it says whether any material injury or monetary damage to a joining land will acre from the proposed activities and the rationale for this is that again we should not be imposing any injury or costs on neighbors so we don't want to be in a situation where there we're deciding whether the costs being imposed on neighbors are material or not um so any injury is enough to make this something that should not be granted that makes a lot of sense yeah that's all I have thanks so much okay thank you U Meg is anybody no further comment okay okay we're closing the floor to public comment and um what can considerations would you like to okay attach Jay can you on um what Marie just said under the application make her change and strike material injury can we do that without a recomendation I think um that is part of it's application issue it's 7642 and then the other one it's under whether any um material injury just strike out material and just have whether any injury or monetary damage what other injury are we thinking well I don't know she's a lawyer so briefly I don't I don't want a neighbor who has some impact of erosion or something that they that they they're going to have a cost imposed on them even if it's losing some of their shrubs or even if it seems small right I mean like say they have a head one of them that you shouldn't be able to impose on your neighbors I mean if we're in this situation I mean hopefully most people we won't get there because most people will behave so or make their plans so that they're not imposing any costs on their neighbors or being disruptive but if we're in this situation we might have that s that and I don't think it's fair to put a neighbor in the situation of having to argue that it's their injury is material that's what I'm trying to avoid here that makes sense yeah okay D and Dylan just pointed out that a couple of those are just like one-word changes if if I'm agreeable to it that I can just do it without even being part of your recommendations so the part where removing material injury changing May with shell and and the 48 business hours those are things that I can just we can just put in as as like staff updates but 48 business hours that's like eight hours and eight hours and eight hours or well two business days two business days two business days okay so those three things but we're not going to those will not be a condition those those we can just do administratively the other suggestions she had and that you've discussed are things that would have to be part of the recommendation okay okay what did I um we did we did discuss um yeah the um six months conditional right six two six months instead of one and that's under the living Shoreline wait hold on wait that's the renewal yes under the renewals yeah for growing the mangroves so we're going to do the two six months instead of one inste so it's 7 76 343 okay hold on 764 34 three and then okay Marie's first point um it will be six months okay and then the other one is under 7644 and we decided that we would do two shall be valid for a period of two years yeah but two 60-day renewals for expert two what did we say renewal of any per I don't think you guys ever came to an agreement on I don't think but I think Marie one of Marie's first points was that covered already in what was done no I'm trying to Marie's first point oh you can you go sorry my first point was on Section 7632 in the first line um bulkheads and seaw wall should be permitted only to stabilize disturb shorelines and my suggestion is to add where there's proof that a bulkhead is necessary to protect the property so that we don't have to figure get into a discussion with the applicants as to whether their Shoreline is Disturbed or not if they can prove to us that their property is also administratively possible is that administrative so that that's actually that's part of um what's in what's in 76326 where they have to prove they they would have to get a zoning variance right so what you could do is because I think in that section you guys were already going to make a recommendation that the building offici and Community Development director have to make a recommendation so my recommendation would be to say something like um oh Dylan take notes all right I'm on the Fly here um building official in in the event that a property owner um applies to uh stabilize a rip wrap or natural or live natural Shoreline with a bulkhead or seaw wall the property owner shall demonstrate that the shoreline is degraded and needs to be stabilized I'm struggling here need for stabilization you don't you're on the right track yeah yeah something along those lines and that the building official and Community Development director shall provide a written opinion yes with the zoning variance application history like the history of the property one slight Amendment i' make to that is that that's the best option to that the bulkhead because the the really the best option is to find the best way to make the living Shoreline work right yes um so that I would like to make sure that we've got that that's the best and I know since we've if we're putting it in your hands that that will be the case but I like to have it in the statute too well we'll do a compromise I I have more I I have faith in you that you I I mean with with the verbage yeah we can we can Wordsmith that if that's the general gist of what you want to we we'll Wordsmith it you have some sort of report showing that it's irreparably damaged and this is their only option yeah and then we would still have to make that decision yes um agre I mean through through the Planning and Zoning variance yeah and um and we just love variances and um okay now that okay so then we're back to 76- 343 is the six months and then we're back to the 7644 where um I said how many renewals well well that one I I I kind of would like to leave that up to the building department because there's just too many variables and and just like Miss Watkins she had to have fill an emergency fill and but then you know might have taken her a long time to get somebody to come and fill it it's it's there just needs to be those options but it's not their fault you know it's well that's what I mean I mean you're going to have instances where it's not well it does say for good cause that that all renewals have to be for good cause well then I think think we should Define good cause but we can I know we can there's just too many I just there's too many variables there's too many variables right all right I'll we have to have faith in I'll compromise okay I will compromise on that so then it's just for the motion for 76- 34-3 to make that change on um in line on uh 7 number three that the staff may Grant a six-month extension to the monitoring Peri period that's that's before you make your motion um the other one was the total 50% defining what replacement cost as the estimated linear feed I think that's good to have in there for The Village's protection so we don't have a unscrupulous so in section 7633 um the comparison of the total cost of the repairs being to the replacement cost since the replacement cost we don't want to leave it solely in the hands of the contractors as to what the replacement cost is to Define that it's going to be with reference to an estimated linear square feet that the building official will apply so there's a bright line there okay for every the staff get to determine what a reasonable cost is yes yes yeah yes and we would have the we would have it on an annual basis so then it's it's not even up for dispute we say this is our this is our number and there's there's no yeah so yeah I'm good with that I I think it's a great idea okay so these are all administrative or conditions I would make that one part of the condition recommendation because it's a little bit longer okay the the annual estimate one okay so the annual estimate and Jan's can I can I jump in I hate to throw another wrench into things please go ahead um Miss Watkins brought up a great point do we want to create a little small subsection in the fill permit that allows people to do do an emergency permit for in the event of a storm we could just create a subsection that says in the event of a hurricane or storm an emergency um hey Shoreline stabilization can be applied for and so it could either go to council or or maybe even the building official and staff approve it um because I mean time is of the essence that point further damaged if you don't if you don't act it's not taken care and that still has de pre approval first right or does it not in the case of an emergency no for for an emergency I don't know what their procedures are I don't know do you have you got an emergency you you didn't through the but you don't want oh yes so D approves it in an emergency basis I would say we do otherwise you're going to have people after storms you know sort of like price gougers right taking the advantage of a St my emergency I have to replenish my beach right like I would be cautious that there's I know we approve it but you the burden of that happening may be an issue I don't know I I like where you're going with it like I think there should be something for storm conditions just need the right wording yeah okay so we would want to establish a new subsection regarding emergency but I'm per I mean I'm surprised that I mean some of the other municipalities haven't thought of that yeah I mean you consider how long the town of Jupiter's had this on their books are we sure they ween we Lu haven't had a major storm iock all the okay can I one thought on that is that especially for the fill for living shorelines that aren't natural ones right I would make sure it's aimed at those that they get the emergency because if you've got a bulkhead yes then you don't need the fill well that's a whole different whole no I know that's why we're dressing her individually but I would carve it out so that the bulkhead and seaw wall ones are not able to apply for the Emergency Because unless there's a reason that needs to so maybe for stabilizing their mangroves if they've got rip W but just putting fill in I think could lead to some yeah potentially some I'm sure he's got the brains to figure that out I don't know no but it also would prevent if we have it in St coming trust you I think if we had it in the statute that it was to for those purposes reinforcing the actual living shorelines and reinforcing the mangroves then nobody's coming to you with a questionable thing that you have to I mean we also want to lessen the burden on our staff in the aftermath of St so if it's in black and white that says only if you've got a natural natural line or you're you to stabilize your so to okay so now we're going to do an emergency if you want a subsection subsection to that's a good idea though allow for emergency subsection addressing emergency hold on emergency fill and then you can fill in the rest for natural for natural Shoreline or to hold on emergency fill for natural Shoreline poor mag po the minutes you're going to have fun with these or to huh I'm going or to stabilize mang got nice tidy writing though so and so the emergency is only for the natural Str right or to or to to stabilize uh mangroves okay so now we're now all of the others so it's the six months we need you you need a motion for and then it's the emergency and the other things here danan so a lot of changes on this one um I'll do my best but I you can tell me if I'm missing something we have the two six-month review period extensions instead of the one year in 76 343 we have instructions to clarify the definition of disturbed shorelines and to have an option for or to direct the planning director and building official to provide a WR written recommendation regarding whether they believe it clarifi it qualifies as a disturbed Shoreline we have defining the uh total cost of repairs is based upon an estimate based on lineal feat on an on an annual basis that will be based upon a chart kept on the office of the Community Development director and we have been directed to consider or to add a provision relating to extensions in the event of an emergency storm event specifically for natural Shor lines not for standard or to stabilize mangroves or to stabilize mangroves those are the recommendations that I've written down so far and that's my motion okay you don't ask me to repeat it okay if you'll at least make a proper motion but Dylan just read that's my motion for approval does anyone second I'll second that okay so we have first and second so um regarding ordinance with the CH conditions that yes okay all in favor I all opposed okay the motion passes sorry to put you through that but really good feedback thank you all okay I I do have to say it's I I mean my hat goes off to you because it's a lot of work I mean I'm sure there'll be more changes and well sure what a start I yeah at least we have something it's that's what's important okay and a motion to adjourn just a quick staff update I think knock on wood we G to probably not have a meeting in August so you guys earned a month off can't guarantee it but I think I think I think I I think that need to you know why because my grandson is playing in the Panther stadium for his high school the uh Wellington High School is the state champs for football and he's playing at the Wellington High School is playing in the Panther stadium and he says Grandma you better get up here so and that happens to be the third Thursday okay thank you Jay I appreciate thank you so much and do is there any other comments no we can't adjourn we didn't ask for public comments okay we did oh but I mean if we're done with staff comments and everything um okay I'll make a motion to adjourn I second that weed already we need a motion we did we did okay let's call for let's call for a vote on this motion to adjourn I'll call it all in favor all in favor POS we we are ajour okay tell what's been a long a