is gonna start recording record now you get a puppy good luck that's got one minute I guess the First Energy man oh yeah they can help out a little bit ideally it's 530 that's yeah that's what he said okay it's 5:30 p.m. on June 20th 2024 and we will now call to order the meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board for the village of Testa um Meg can you do roll call please of course Leslie Dasher here Teresa maio here Elizabeth shower here Sher Ambrose Jean meloy Mel Downey ma Downey perfect here Marie Safari here Marco Valdez here Jared Gaylord okay okay and has everybody had a chance to look at the agenda yes ma'am do I have a motion to approve I'll make a motion to approve the agenda okay second second and all in favor I I all opposed okay agenda is approved and approval of last month's minutes um has everybody had a chance to look at them and are there any changes Madam chair you have two minutes to approve one from August 23rd yes 2023 and then for February of 2024 in case you're wondering um the August minutes never got adopted in the fall when we handed over between chenm more and myself there was a little bit of a miscommunication and we just we never adopted those so I see okay I went back and I checked yeah so that's what I I had noticed it to me it was like a little hiccup I did I did wonder why there was two that I did okay okay so um if we can do one motion or do we need two two separate we'll do two we'll do two all right I'll make a motion to approve the minutes for August 20123 Planning and Zoning Board minutes second second okay okay all in favor I I'll opposed okay so the meeting minutes of August 2023 are approved and now we will look at February 2024 planning zoning board minutes and I do have a change myself um if if any everybody else has had a chance to oh you know what that's on the next meeting okay on the LPA one on the LPA I'm sorry okay I have no changes for this one okay do we have a motion to approve uh I'll make a motion to approve the minutes for February 2024 Planning and Zoning minutes okay second okay all in favor I all opposed okay minutes are approved okay and we have one agenda item on our calendar it's SPM 2-24 application from Tam West realy Inc for a minor site plan modification for new paint colors on the existing County Line Plaza in the C2 zoning District Miss chair uh item number three on our agenda SPM 2-24 is quasi judicial in nature that being said if anyone is present this evening and plans to give testimony regarding this item I need to swear you in at this time so if you could please stand with me and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury and the laws of the State of Florida to tell the truth the whole truth of nothing but the truth very good you may be seated Madam chair at this point in time I would ask any members of the board who have had any expart communication with uh the applicant to disclose that at this time including any site visits that may have been conducted no I go to public public separate day I mean necessary site visits well yeah that's I mean I wasn't there to check out the colors sustance only yeah just to go food shopping understood okay same I was also at the same okay thank you so much you may proceed now with the application okay and did you want to come forward and state your name and address for the record please my name is Sandra Haywood 564 US Highway 1 North TOA Florida and we do have all of the the information is there more you'd like to add to the presentation uh no basically we're just trying to update um the kind of dated color at the plaza give it a a face lip so to speak um brighten it up a little bit make it look a little more Coastal without looking Caribbean if you will um and uh yeah just trying to move forward with a kind of a new plan okay okay and um uh we do we will have a couple of other items for you to add to this as we'll discuss and um it's okay so are we ready to go to board comments actually have a staff presentation to give if you don't mind okay yes so um I'll just kick that off Meg do you mind um running through that sorry our our PowerPoint clicker is not working tonight so so this is a minor site plan modification for the county line plaza where Publix is I'm sure sounds like you're all familiar with it I think everyone inquest it is next slide so again minor site plan approval to repaint the shopping center it requires a minor site plan modification and this actually enables the Planning and Zoning Board to Grant final approval on aesthetic modifications to exterior building color or finish when not accompanied by any other site plan modification so tonight this will be a recommendation or not a recommendation this will be a vote for approval or denial not a recommendation to Village Council next slide uh there's the Plaza uh click and there's the plaza in its current state um so you see it's kind of got a yellowish brownish orange-ish Hue to it um you know looks you kind of dated uh next slide um just going to run through some pictures of the whole Plaza so you can get a feel for it next one next one and um back to the Jersey diner so the Jersey diner is actually included in this as well it's not actually in the the plaza itself it's an out parcel but but um they're including that the other out Parcels are not included it's the Chase and the Starbucks staru so those have already independently and maybe even Dunc Donuts those have already kind of independently updated um their facades so they're they're separate but Jersey diner is included um so we're going to go through now some kind of uh some renderings of you know before and after um there you go and there's the Jersey diner mag do you have the color board and we also do have a color board if you're interested in looking at um at things in you know they they don't always look exactly the same from from a rendering or from a PowerPoint presentation to real life so it'll give you more accurate representation U next slide uh you see the the underneath there is really you see the color contrast especially right there um so looking at criteria for review uh our code has quite a few things um that it wants you to look at you know harmony with other buildings harmony with the surroundings um fa you harmonious facades harmonious design uh next slide um there's a number five is advertisements on buildings um so you know kind of talks about compatibility of the advertisements with with surrounding buildings and existing buildings inappropriate building styles garish design exterior forms and use of symbolic colors so these are all things that you know if you if you as a board believe that what they're proposing is inaccurate with or in contrast to what the code says um you know you can always you know make suggestions or um suggested tweaks uh next slide so staff um has two recommended conditions um you know again this these are just recommendations to the board take them or leave them but uh just wanted you to consider them um one of them is is the wall signage um the the red signs out there you know I personally think you know look a little dated and they probably looked a little better with the old um the old color scheme not so much with the new color scheme um so you know we didn't want to propose a condition that required them to take all these to update all these signs while they're painting you know you've got some small businesses um you know we don't know what the situation is with the tenants and and we didn't want to force that but what we did want to do is create a a process to where those signs could get updated as as they're getting repaired or replaced in the future and so the recommended condition is to require a master sign program to be created and to to approve uh and that to be approved by this board before any signs can be changed repaired or updated so a lot of times in commercial plazas there will be kind of a unified sign plan so that as new Tenants come in or businesses close the new ones come in and and they've got to be consistent with that so what we're essentially recommending is they kind of create a new a new um design a new kind of color palette for all future signage that's more consistent with the um proposed paint colors uh next sign slide uh the other condition and and I don't I don't know if we talked to to you about this one but it's you know just to ensure that these are also painted as well they are included okay they are okay good we just we hadn't confirmed that but we just wanted to make sure that you know if the the buildings were being painted that the the the signs also would be painted as well so um sounds like you guys were planning to do that but can't hurt to make it part of the recommended condition if you do go forward just just to be on the on the sa side you need to be more specific when you're doing that you in writing some make sure to okay uh next slide you know another thing is you know the the red roof tile the barrel roof tile um again also probably looks a little bit better with the old color scheme not so much the the new color scheme um you know the existing Plaza here this is you know hog Snappers quest of Brewing Company um I think it was I'm not sure the exact year it was painted but I think it was sometime in the past few years it used to also have that kind of Tanish color with the red barrel roof and I'm not positive if they painted the red the the the Red Roof or they completely replaced it does anyone know I think they painted it I don't remember them I remember them changing the color but I don't remember them reing it pain I know that they put a lot of new air conditioning units up on the top because a lot of the businesses had um roof leakages from the air conditioning units but I cannot remember I NE I didn't know you could paint the barrel so we did confirm with with that that you can paint the the barrel roof the barrel tile and um so I didn't make this part of my recommended conditions but I just wanted to show it to you in case the board was interested in you know making a condition I mean I I thought about doing one where it was you know similar to the sign where it was like anytime the the the roof would get replaced or repaired it would be replaced with a new metal roof or a different color roof um or you could perhaps make a condition of approval to to paint the the barrel roof more to a color more consistent with with the proposed paint colors may I say something sure yeah and and I'm done with my presentation so you can just throw it back um if you look back at the diner image it's a little easier to see the roof because of the pitch and there is some of the gray kind of turquoise is coloring in there and our thought was see how it looks when we get it done um because it's if you look at it especially up close which I did when I was picking the colors it does kind of pull that out and it doesn't look so orange it kind of tones down the orange and pulls out more of the gray color but if it doesn't we certainly are open to paint it because we don't want to have everything else looking nice and having that stick out like a sore thumb so it's it's kind of a process in doing one thing first and then kind of seeing how it Blends in and then moving forward if we need to okay okay any other questions I have a question okay um in saying that are you also thinking the signs later um trying get actually the signage needs to be replaced um some of them are looking as you notice they're looking faded um I did not that that is a tenant responsibility so I did not want to put that upon them to do until we saw I agree the red is not the best color so I think as those are replaced they defin definitely need to be updated and a lot of them need to be updated anyway so that won't really it it might look a little odd in the meanwhile having some red and some whatever that bright green the bright bright green is that the green theen well the public sign that's a national so that will always color just like subway will always have a sign that looks like subway but as far as the dentist and the spa and those types of things those are not that huge of a change out um so I definitely don't want them to pay the money to update it to Red So the plan would be to pick another color palette and then update it accordingly because there again we You Realize by doing another color palette you'll have to come back absolutely yeah okay and then I I would do the the roof coloring too at the same I'm just trying to save you some money right if it if it's if we find that we definitely need to do the roofing then we would do it all it would all be done yeah we just we kind of felt like it was was worth giving it a shot to see how the paint in the roof are going to do there again you put something up against something else and it can make it really exacerbated and sometimes it can also be toned down so and while the natural tile is beautiful it's kind of a shame in a way to paint it but we certainly aren't opposed to doing that if that's what we need to do I love the color pilot I mean it's just it's really striking and it will definitely um update you know the whole Plaza so um I would like to make a mo actually I have sorry sorry um so thank you for being here um I fully agree one with the roof tile concerns um I had prepared remarks because I thought it was going to be at the podium but I'll try and condense them um and I definitely one of my big concerns there is the signs the red signs would love to see those go completely especially when they look pink and they're faded um and I would also encourage not plastic backlit signs to the extent possible like if we could put in signs that look that are more wooden with lights over them something much more I we can do a lot more attractive I think in this space um that would be I think a huge I agree huge that would choice either okay thank you um so I would and I would also say the same for the sign that has the plastic signs on the tall one on that's on Route One if that when those signs start to break down um i' would love to see that replaced with something that doesn't isn't lit from behind and doesn't look so plastic for the lack of better word agree um so the I guess the I also completely agree that this pla needs an update um I am concerned about the overwhelmingly gray palette here um because I I realized that one of the colors the Polaris I believe which is one of the accent colors is has a blue undertone here but I am very concerned about the sort of an overwhelmingly gray look to the to most of this Plaza um and the reason for this um I I think that it might not be harmonious with the out Parcels I have concerns about that especially the ones that were not painting um Dunkin Donuts uh is not in the same color scheme um but in particular with the surrounding buildings we have the reserve coming in and those are sort of a cheerful Coastal color scheme and I think this might not quite mesh with that there they do seem to have blues and corals from and some yellows from what I understand so I would like to see this go a little bit in a different direction um to be more in line with that and with the rest of the um the village because I feel like this has the potential to be a little bit Bleak gray so with especially with the soul soltice which I believe is a lot of the buildings like would this one be the solstice color Okay um so I also wanted to know we have one really un part of the reason for my hesitation here is we have one really unfortunate example of a large building in the center of the village with a gray color scheme that really does not look good um the Baptist Church's color scheme is like this proposal exclusively variations of gray and that example is not a good one for the Village um also like this Plaza the church building is not particularly beautiful to begin with and the gray colors make it a lot worse um the Aesthetics are really critically important to creating the type of community that we want um so paint color especially when we're talking about a huge group of buildings like this I think is very important um I'm also a little concerned with the gray and the broader surroundings because taquesta is a small Coastal Village and this is a retail area and I'm I am worried that this has the potential to look a little industrial um and I would like to see a little bit more color we have in the past I know that they going to white and gray is kind of the the trend at the moment but I would like to see a little bit more color in this area um and I think we would not like our like to have the sort of industrial look as a whole especially on us one um and I like I said we I do have concerns that about the terracotta roof um being not not consistent with the not looking right so I appreciate that you're willing to work with us on that um I also wanted to point out that if we had really beautiful architecture in this space the paint colors would matter a lot less um unfortunately the architecture of this strip mall really does not it does need to be camouflaged because the aesthetic is not good at all um and what I'd like for the owners to do is think carefully about how to paint the buildings on this site to start to remediate that and I realize you're trying here um but I am am worried about the the overwhelming the possibility of it being an overwhelmingly gray facade um I will say to um there is no good reason to make pauses that look like this in the first instance um and if we had an attractive facade to paint probably one that broke up the masses of concrete into obviously individual storefronts and not merely rows of flat AR arches the paint colors would matter a lot less um but as it is um when place that I'm particularly concerned about is the southwestern part of the plaza where the golf court cart store and McCarthy's is right now it's a solid mass of the single um yellow orange color and I think as I understood the pictures that it's going to all gray there too um and I have to say I really wish that the original Architects had broken up that bulk in a way that would make more sense because there are multiple businesses in that row um and if they had done that we could be much more liberal in allowing whatever paint color choice is the owner wish um but since we have this building with its extremely large bulk um I think we owe it to the community extremely careful about the paint color um and so I also had remarks on the red plastic signs I really do appreciate that you will change that because it screams strip mul to me right now um and I think that changing that is um G to be make a big difference um one other thought that I had in to move us closer without changing the architecture um to more individualized stores is to possibly with the paint try and differentiate the individual retailers for separately um I will leave that to the owners to figure out how to do that that's not as easy as it I know um the but I think that in with since I go there regularly um it really does need to change and unfortunately working with a bad facade like this facade would should not have been approved um and it is unfort we're trying to make it better um but I don't think I'm not sure that we're quite there yet with this proposal want say do you have a lot more not a lot more now um the only other thing I want to say is that um I think that make getting this totally right will actually have um be both benefit benefits for the individual store and especially if you can differentiate them in some way I I would say the signs will do will help to do that um but it will also benefit the property owners and it will have I think substantial Financial benefits for the property owners because if we do our duty and make are you about finished I'm almost done our and make sure that this how much more just a couple seconds okay that's all that's all if we do our duty and make sure that the spaces in the village are beautiful and harmonious um it will make the properties more valuable too for the owners thank you um I for myself I do love the colors I think they're very pretty want to say one thing I love the Polaris yes I think that really really helps and we could use that more and the gray less it's just beautiful it looks like the inter Coastal actually like to that more of the blue that I played with more of that less of the gray using the same color palette but changing it out where we where there are brakes because on those flat fronts you can't change them you can't change one other recommendation I i' have is this thunder bolet color if that could go more towards the blue scale than the gray end of things I think that would help bring out the other things I think it would look too much like the Polaris no no make it more blue it would look too much more like the Polaris but um um and and I agree with the with the roof it's I've done enough painting in my life to know you you I've done a lot of repainting yeah um because it doesn't always look like what you expect it to and everything so I do totally understand the um it just makes sense to do the painting first and then assess the roof situation because you wouldn't want to paint it one color and then say Oh wish we painted it another color right it's it's a big project and it's yes it's expensive too and um um and we do we do I do want to make sure we get in writing in the whatever we agree to that I do have a qu in regard to the signage that Maria said with putting like a wood finish or some something that's a little bit different and not the plastic something that would be more permanent with a different kind of lighting right um something that looks Coastal for sure yeah I mean it's a very busy Plaza um I mean majority the signs are what differentiate the you there really is no way to if you that would excuse me be like painting that wall and stopping and changing color and stopping and changing color that's just not going to work you would have to put up something to make I mean what are you going to put up molding on stucco that's just not that's not going to work the only way that you can do it is by the signage being something that's obvious and apparent and clear and and and nice and then break it up on the endcaps break it up under the you know on the back part have the contrast from the outside to the columns that's really the only way and and you really have to have two different colors and and the one I believe it's Polaris if I'm not wrong that is the more more Coastal of the colors but the other has to offset it because if you go too much more blue now you're going to the owner feels like then it's going to look like he doesn't want the plaza to look like cotton candy he wants it to look Coastal but still I mean because of the architecture being what it is and it is what it is it still is a traditional it's not you know it's not um it's not like um when you see some of the newer plazas that are pink and yellow and green oh yeah it doesn't lend itself to that and it would look silly that way so you have to kind of even though that would be pretty you have to work with what you have yeah I know thank you but I have a question for the attorney [Music] um can we make a motion for for a time limit for the roofing and for the signage to be done within a certain period for her to come back or the the plaza to come back and address the painting I mean you know after it's done I mean you know I'm sure the tenants will have something to say you know um but can you make a motion to give somebody a time limit I don't remember what we did for when Village Bootery and stuff came for which is unusual cuz I'm usually pretty good at remembering stuff like that so you could suggest a condition of approval of sorry I'm knocking over things yeah of um you know determining in within say six month period of time whether the um but is six month is six months too short I mean well that that would be just to come back and just to come back but you know okay well Jay what if what if you know what's been done what would you suggest so it sounds like they want to see what the paint looks like and and if this board wants to see the same thing we could perhaps propose a condition that that within 6 months or 3 months of completion of the the pain on the existing building they come back to pzb to determine what whether or not the barrel roof should be painted or not and to also can we also ask them to address the signage I think you could do this so to to go in and update all the signs well I mean to get a plan CU because to give us a plan and that's part of what one of Jay's existing recommendations was well I know but do you know well as mine currently stands it's it's that they would only have to do that the next time a tenant sign changed out so that could that could be two weeks or it could be two years could be if you wanted to put a time on that I I believe you could you could say within you know within 6 months of completion of painting the the plaza they come back with that Master sign plan and at that time you guys would also be able to look at the the roof situation too you could look at them together signage okay and I've got some examples that can we can work with him on on the sign plan I've I've got it as a hidden slide if you can pull up um because that you would also have to address the main entrance signs too okay so where's his hidden it's hidden so you have you have to to close out and then can I ask a question in the meantime where if you were to put more of the Polaris on where would you propose doing that well without looking at it it's a hard to say um but but you definitely could do that and when I and and I changed it I had it one way and then I changed it I'm like oh well I like it this way but so it it's a it's a matter of taste and and also you got to remember when you're looking at that Publix you're looking at that whole side that's gray you're not going to see anything else from that view and that's the side you don't park on that side you don't walk in on that side that's merely just a picture so you're never going to see that big gray wall right no that wasn't my my concern was actually the the section where are and I realize that's not broken but it is underneath it's covered it's got the archways it's shaded so it's already going to look different even if you painted it the same color it's going to look different only because of one's out in the bright Sun and you see it from the parking lot one is under and set back so it you know you want to have some contrast you don't want everything to just blend in with with each other but you know you could take that color and you could lighten it a shade or two okay and and use the same color palette but just play with it a little bit that's an option all right rather than scratch at all yeah um well we did we did want to so did we decide on the um signage plan that yeah well I don't I'm sorry jay but I don't like any of I don't like any of your sign you don't like those no like that M those are P pin mounted metal signs there there's nothing there there's nothing architecturally different I mean it's it's just I mean I was looking at something that's kind of like Coastal like um I mean I'm sure you have a design architect that can come up with something that has got it doesn't have to be block lettering it could be a little bit of a script something and then just like a little kind of a different light but I'm sorry it was it that was actually not my opinion well that was not to copy it that was just to show what a kind of a cohesive sign plan could look so that's to be but there again you have to be careful because while you think of a sign looking Coastal looking good when that's what you're seeing when you have it with the AR arches and the that kind of that Tuscan Vibe and then you go putting a sign up that looks very Coastal kind of like putting bright yellow and pink paint well you can't do that bright yellow you got to make sure that it well that's why I'm saying you've got a design architect that will come up with a color fac that it looks out of place yeah but nothing I mean script or something would be it has to be readable but something that's very easy to identify yes because some of the names of the businesses are long do yeah I well and that's true yeah I I mean Spa is pretty easy but you know when you go eyes of Testa that's a little different I know but it's always good to think outside of the box andely you know um yeah but I have a question would each business have have their own design sign it's got to be uniform and I was thinking would prefer I I actually would prefer to see some diversity rather than uniform because it that's where you get the overwhelmingly strip mul aesthetic to me um and I I think we need to move away from that in intoa generally we just have to be careful that everybody doesn't go to right yeah I don't it I think we can work with something along the those lines but we don't have to have all the same like sort of Black Blocks letter lettering but it can I would like to see from my perspective I would like to see if you're picking like blues and greens or so whatever color pal palette you pick out I would like to see some variety in it not just not all black or all one or move to all blue um because I think that will help individualize the businesses and I think that would be be good here and it does help that we have the Nationals that are broken up if you think about it you go three or four units and then you have something that's always going to be that right and then you go two or three units and you're going to always have that so it's not like everything everything is going to look exactly the same and so can I ask you were you mentioned lightning though I am pretty concerned about the solstice being a reading to gray um partly because I was last there on Saturday when the sky was overcast and the thought struck me the this the building would blend right into the clouds is it possible to lighten that a bit or what what are your thoughts on that we had another option and I have the palette from that other option it is definitely more blue but it's it's not like looking at those pictures when you look at that Plaza and it's that blue that's a lot of blue I don't think I care for the blue honestly I don't my personal opinion is while I love it looking at it right here and I love looking at it in a rendering when I look look at that whole Plaza and it's that much blue that's a lot yeah that's just my opinion yeah I think it's better as an accent yes yeah color yeah that's my just my was actually what I was suggesting just to be clear I was suggesting lightening the gray so that it's more it's a little bit closer to a white I like IC well we make the gray lighter that's not a big deal I think it but I thought you said more blue no no I mean to go lighter on the this Solstice in particular I since that's the um the front parts of the the the one story pie part of the thinking that too is the plaza is very hard to keep clean we have wind we have I mean it's a constant battle to pressure wash so if we go doing the body in a huge way in something that's almost white it is not going to look good unless we are pressure washing it on a regular basis and that is a major undertaking um so do you have what sort of air are you going end with stain on the side no we don't have an issue with that because most of the plantings are out from there so that's not a problem okay we'd like to move on to public comments if we can we do Marco come to if you'll state your name and address for the record please yeah Marco Bel is 102 Beach Trail um mag yes minutes so uh and looking at the guidelines uh that Jay had pointed out in terms of uh adjacent to Harmony with adjacent buildings this may be more of a processing or suggestion that you know you probably should include in the packet what does Chase look like what does Starbucks look like what does duckin Donuts look like and and also the new development going next door to that because I think you know you look at this like oh this looks good but how does it play with the stuff that's already around it right I think you said Chase has already been done and and Starbucks but what do they look like and how does this compare to that so I think that that's something I think to to correctly evaluate that I think you would need to look at those other adjacent properties so that's my comment thank you Marco I agree with that too that was one of my points I don't I don't because per just uh let's say Dunkin Donuts they could tomorrow be up here trying to cut change different colors and then then what do you do you repainted this whole Plaza to match that and now you're stuck with nobody gets to move forward I actually don't think this matches I would also I would also recommend a site plan a site visit so in my career there's been so many times I've had projects come through and I'm looking at it and then I go out in the field and and when you look at it in person in the field that you'll always get a new perspective on something that you don't see in just a picture so I I do I do agree that we can like especially the reserve right um yeah I have had no idea I mean I I when I went to publ the other day I kind of looked at Chase and it kind of looked more grayish didn't have that terracotta look but it wasn't in the package so sure um but the Reserve I have no idea what their color sure I'd like to just mention that my first color submission was something very similar to Starbucks and that was yeah they they submitted a darker color scheme and and we told them we said hey based on feedback we've gotten from Village Council there's been too many darker colors too many blacks but it did have a more gr yeah and so we encourage them to go go in a little more Coastal Direction and and yeah okay I just feel like we can't we can't limit anybody to what's next door because those people might change next month they might be wanting to repaint then nobody gets to move forward with new colors okay all right is there any other we're ready for oh did you have a okay okay if you'll say your name and address for the record please my name is Jessica I live at 20 Shady Lane I've lived in Testa for over 35 years I've grown up in these plazas and I've seen all of their changes um I I wish we had more people from the concrete jungle here to to opine on how they feel about gray buildings you guys I'm I'm shocked that this is something that we're all sitting in agreement thinking looks pretty in our Coastal Community um um and I just I can't help but wish we had some sort of some guidelines or an overlay so all of our us one plazas looked the same wouldn't that be nice because actually the US1 Plaza that we referenced earlier showing how they made those changes their blue signs and the white update actually really made that Plaza come to life and rejuvenated it and it looks so much better than it did before painting the roof uh you know I mean it looks like a completely different Plaza um the fact that we wouldn't be requiring it all or we wouldn't want it all to be changed and we're peac mealing this I think is a little bit crazy and I've also never heard of painting the top of something after we've already painted the bottom but I understand that we're very accommodating these days to developers and I think as residents that's very frustrating um saying nobody is going to see that side of the building when you have an entire community that is having trouble selling their units right next the door I think is concerning that nobody is thinking about them I don't know if anybody has reached out to them to ask what they think about gray because again they're having trouble selling all of those units do you think they want people do you I mean I would be curious to hear if they thought this would make things harder or easier for them or if they had any opinion because actually they're going to be looking at that side of the building I mean all the time that's their that's that's their view uh also the closest I've ever been to Tuscany is Rome so I can't speak to Tuscany but I'm not sure anybody's ever Associated gray with Tuscany I I well yeah I I I would strongly urge you to reconsider and I think that the fact that you guys get to decide this on your own is appalling I mean truly I think if you were to ask residents I know what colors we've given when we've been asked before and it's not gray ever white is one thing but gray please you guys this is ridiculous thank thank you any other public comments no okay we're closing public comments and I guess we're ready for board discussion yeah any more board discussion um now we we address the main entrance signs we address okay I'm sorry I have to go back to look at my notes if I can read my handwriting um you had two conditions Jay and that was the the two wed entryways with the signage and the monument sign yes um to be painted the current color now my question is I do not have a problem with changing the color to the other you know to give it a little bit of variance um how do we address that right now can we have a motion to um if there are any minor adjustments if she comes and talks to you sure and rather than do this all over again she can yes they they would minor changes yeah they they would conceivably paint the the two walled signs in the Monument sign something very compatible and consistent with the current design here using the same colors but it would just be part of the the permit process okay and then can you have a different color paint for you know like Maria had said could I just have that for a minute please Maria had said with the grade that um she' liked what was it the um the stus solstice soltice so can the the only part you can't have a white building as she had said because they are pressure washing constantly I mean so that just isn't going to work but I mean but then eventually the grave Fades because it's going to be in the sun MH so I mean my house faded within 6 months so and granted it's party plank it's not um but they there was also a lot of this these um saltwater intrusion so I will just leave it up to you Jay to I mean the suus I I think would be good but to make sure that they change the um the main entrance signs um the the entrance Monument sign walls the mon and the monument sign along with the rest of the plaza that's what that's my first motion and then I'll go back to would you I while we're talking about it would you prefer Polaris versus the solstice so the the the green the green color I think the PO I think the PO Polaris would be yeah okay um that's my first that's my first motion okay so this is that just for the sign right just just a sign is this a motion we're in right now pardon me I think we're discussing are we making a been made a second I think she's still working on her motion no I that's my first motion okay so you're recommending approval with making my approval I'm making a motion to approve with the Polaris is the main and to have the two worldall entryways and the monument sign to be um consistent with consistent with the rest of the plaza yes and then I'll come back with the signage and everything the next my next motion but I think we have to do it all once you want to do okay no all right then I give them six six months yes exactly I'll do six months after they um because that'll give the tenants enough time because I don't know you know what what would trans fire but that will give them 6 months to come back with the signage um a different kind of a signage something that we explained but not you know something with wood a little bit different and lighting and uh the the paint color for the barrel Tire roof I'm six months after painting after painting painting okay yes I thought said after after the completion of painting right completion I'm sorry yes okay now for as far as the first part uh where about the monument signs the wall signs and everything now does that include like if there are any you know minor changes to the paint that she's going to discuss that with Jay yeah okay that sure is that okay okay so um okay so she that's my motion okay is there a way we could hear that motion again yes s would you like so for clarification you're getting paid the big bucks buddy I believe the motion as it stands is to approve the site plan modification along with the two conditions read into the record by the community development director and also a recommendation that or an authorization for the community development director to approve minor changes to the existing paint plan involving the same colors MH right additionally requiring the applicant to come back within six months for an site plan modification to resolve the color of the roof as well as the um apply for a master sign plan it's six months after six months following compl okay okay okay do we have a second I'll second uh all in favor I all opposed no okay the motion passes okay and can I have a motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn I'll second that all in favor I all opposed okay motion we are adjourned okay and now we'll start with the next one let me get my classes so we're all we're set for the next meeting Mega are we ready for the next meeting yes okay okay it is 617 on June 20th 2024 and this is the meeting of the local planning agency of V the village of taquesta and we are calling it to order uh make will you do roll call please yes Leslie Dasher here Teresa magio here Elizabeth shower here Sherry Ambrose Janine M Mel Downey perfect here Mara Theory here Marco Valdez here Jarod Gaylord here's is he here yes he's sitting over there okay okay and um has everybody looked at the agenda yes and all in favor of or I'll make a motion to approve the agenda I'll second it okay all in favor all opposed okay motion agenda is approved okay and the approval of the meeting minutes from May 2024 um has everybody had a chance I do have a couple changes or one okay okay um on it's page four that's right no it is oh I'm sorry it it does say page four but it could be 15 to 15 out of 33 um it's another 15 is it in the minutes um no that's sorry something else um anyway the meeting minutes I'm sorry agenda item one was the top of page six um in in in reference to one of the comments made I made a comment of that the the waivers would come back before us as an SPM for approval and at the time we were in the local planning agency meeting and when I said us I kind of meant Planning and Zoning so it does say um get to page six on page six here we go oh okay yeah agenda item one it says number well you have here I will find the third line down it says board chair Dash then pointed out that any waivers would still come through the land Planning and Zoning first it says land planning agency first but I said us meaning Planning and Zoning zoning uh as an SPM versus the land and there it' be local planning agency but I did mean for that to say planning in zone in board okay not not the land planning agency okay so that's the only change I have in the um uh in the minutes did anybody else have any changes in the meeting minutes no okay if we can have a motion to approve with the change that I requested I'll make a motion okay I'll second it okay all in favor all opposed okay the um previous meeting minutes are approved and okay so we will move on to the agenda item ordinance number -24 and did you want to read that or sure okay thank you chair this is uh ordinance -24 it's an ordinance of the Village Council of the village of Tessa Florida amending the village code of ordinances at chapter 78 zoning article 6 schedule of District regulations by creating a new division section three entitled affordable housing and live local act to provide and Implement administrative procedures and requirements for development of affordable housing projects pursuant to the Florida live local act providing for enforcement and providing for penalties for violations providing that each and every other section and subsection of chapter 78 zoning shall remain in full force and effect as previously adopted providing a conflict Clause severability clause and authority to codify providing an effective date and for other purposes if you recall uh the Liv local Act is something that came out of the 2023 legislative session uh you've actually seen a version of this ordinance in the past um that ordinance was put off uh to see if the legislature intended to do anything with the live local ordinance out of the 2024 session now that that session has concluded there were some changes minor changes to the live local act uh but nothing that sub substantively changed the nature of that legislation uh and so now this ordinance is being brought to to codify regulations surrounding it uh Jay if you'd like to provide any additional comments regarding the proposed ordinance sure I can I can run through the presentation from last fall or I can just give you guys an update on what's changed this goor round think whichever you'd prefer an update I think an update would be good for me perfect so the the changes that the state made are are really fairly negligible in terms of the village of Desta um they impact some of the other communities that that offer things like height bonuses and density bonuses and that regulate density in floor area ratio which we don't really do so a lot of what was done to change it doesn't really impact us too much the one thing that could impact us in a way and Dylan and I agreed to put this into the new ordinance is there's a there's a new section in the well let me backtrack a little bit as you may recall the original live local act says that that if someone does a live local project an affordable housing project they are able to get the highest height within a mile of that um yeah of that property right of course that impacts us because of Beach Road so a lot of a lot of our commercial areas are within a mile of Beach Road and therefore or they can grab that that height allowance from from Beach Road there's a there is a section and that was probably the most contentious part of the live local act from local communities so one concession that the state made there was that they said that if a proposed development is adjacent to on two or more sides a parcel that is zoned for single family residential with at least 25 contiguous homes the municipality May restrict the height to 150% of the tall building on any property adjacent to the development the highest currently allowed height for the property or three stories whichever is higher so unfortunately I don't in looking at it I don't believe that really does impact us a lot of our properties that are potential live local properties aren't next to contiguous or 25 contiguous single family homes on both sides but in the you know abundance of caution we decided to put that in the the updated code just just to be safe okay um otherwise there really weren't too many changes that impacted us that we saw oh okay so it's it's largely the same ordinance you saw on the fall other than that that little provision we put in there um Dylan are happy to answer any questions more discussion L um Jay I spoke to you before the meeting and you weren't well I don't I don't think there was many PE Maybe lesli was when we approved the old Roode property on County Line Road um to be a nursing home and it never came to fruition that would be like an ideal place where and they would be restricted because of the height limitation um to put affordable housing there I mean that's the only place I mean that you know yeah it's still open that I it's you know I don't know if any body has come forward on that to be so the the good news is the the state regulations say that it has to be commercial or industrial Zed property or mixed use own property so that property is R2 multif family so they are they would not be eligible to do a live local project on that property good good okay okay interesting um so essentially US1 pretty much I think every property in US onean is within a mile of of Beach Road and then if you go up to Cyprus I think they're all within a mile and it's it stops you know I didn't in exact measurement but it stops right in this vicinity right around here so um everything west of here may not even be eligible I'm not sure good okay okay um yeah I mean I I did watch a lot of the YouTubes on um on this I mean was quite interesting and it was you know but that that was the only thing because that you know the council said that they wanted to wait to see what had happened so that was my only two questions thank you okay Mar I do have some notes um so this one this proposal like the previous one we saw um overrides the planning zoning board and Council approvals with regards to aesthetic sorry Aesthetics um I want to reiterate reiterate here that this interpretation is not grounded the language of the state law and I'll like to ask the attorney has the state law language changed in any respect to override aesthetic regulations too it has not it has not okay um so I asked Council in January if there was any authority to support the claim that pnz and the council had no ability to review Aesthetics and the response from the attorney was only that no one else interpreted the statute that way and he cited is the no one else as the Florida League of cities the Florida housing coal and land use attorneys I think this is an unsatisfactory answer the other interpretations that were referenced are entirely from Paid representatives of developers the land use attorneys and organizations that publicly supported the live local Act of course these groups will interpret the statutory language to give it the broadest possible effect that does not mean they're right critically the statute does not expressly say that staff gets to decide if the Aesthetics of a project are acceptable it says that the development quote must be administratively approved if the development satisfies municipalities Land Development regulations and is otherwise consistent with the comprehensive plan end quote the state law doesn't say who makes the determinations concerning Village Land Development regulations and consistency with comp plan priorities in fact section 166.010 17g of the state law says that quote accept is otherwise provided in the subsection a development authorized under this subsection must comply with all applicable local laws and regulations end quote a development does not satisfy our development regulations if pnz and the council haven't signed off on all the requirements of section 22- 82 and agreed that the development proposed meets our comp plan the proposed ordinance endorses an interpretation that is against Village interests and we should not do it in this situation we should defend the interest of the village to the last millimeter allowed in the state statute and not take for granted the interpretation The Advocates of a bad law moreover the focus of the proposed ordinance should be on the enforcement mechanism for the affordability conditions attached by the state to the zoning exceptions for example we need to overhaul the affordability and violation sections of the proposed ordinance it is not clear what the proposed Covenant Declaration of restriction or deed restriction in favor of the village will include or if this approach would be effective that needs to be clear does for example The Village take possession of the building if they fail at some point to satisfy the affordability requirements for the project also in order to and lastly in order to afford enforce the affordability requirement over 30 years the village needs to have information that the building department will not have unless we require landlords to provide it in the ordinance this section needs to include at least a monthly reporting requirement that monthly report from the landlord needs to show all of the market rate units and their monthly rents paid and all the affordable units and their rents paid that reporting requirement should have a penalty attached if the landlord fails to file it on time second the penalties for violating the affordability requirements need to be high enough to make it uneconomic to choose to violate the law rather than to comply depending on what the cross reference penalties are in that section and how they apply they might need to be increased and we probably need to make it clear that violations are counted on a per unit basis not per property Excuse me yes do we have the right to do that I mean I've have seen affordable housing and and I mean I've watched enough YouTubes where you know and that question has never come up as far as getting a report from the property own I mean I I is that it's pretty common is it it it is pretty common and we would we would require it um through this process but it's not part of our ordinance but if we require it it's not in in writing here it's a general requirement and I it's something that I believe the village would be able to enforce and demand from the indivual I'm sorry I've been on here too long that I already know and I I know that Maria is a lawyer and farbe it I'm just but if it's not in the ordinance we don't have a foot we don't have a legal thing to stand on so shouldn't we just make that is part of the requirement for to come back actually if it's if we're not prohibited from doing it by the ordinance then we can do it that should that's the presumption and if the so this ordinance to my or the state statute to my understanding does not have any prohibition against requiring these types of things so my proposal is that we require them and that so that we are able to enforce the you you could add some language stating something along the line of um the must provide a evidence of the affordable housing use when demanded by the local building department Etc however you'd like to recommend it I think I'd like I believe you would still have that power if you didn't explicitly provide it within the ordinance but if you want to add the recommend adding that language I don't see anything wrong with that well your ordinance is only as good as it is and writing and I mean if it's not sitting here you don't to me I mean then you're open opening up yourself for a a lawsuit so let's not have that Avenue to address so I don't know how to do that okay um yeah that was sorry is there more are there more comments no I'm going to how long go ahead I I mean oh to do this yeah well okay no I was it's typically a yearly I believe it's done as a yearly report actually I think it really needs to be monthly on this case because we're talking about monthly rents um so that's why and this is something because they you have to know the percentage of market rate units to non-market rate units and so that at least as I understood the statute was that's the Tipping Point so in order to figure out when a violation occurred if they hand you a yearly report they could actually make it they could do probably they could have all non all market rate units and then the affordable units or the ones that are required by under Statute in only one part of the year when it's meant to be consistent throughout the year do you understand yeah yeah I do understand asking to do it monthly though it's it's going to be a challenge to get from them it's going to be a challenge for us to monitor it monthly the annual report will typically have this the snapshot of what is throughout the year it's not just for like the first month and the last month of the year so in that case I would want to want the annual reports to break it out by month and I would want the penalties to be applicable by month too so if they were in violation in February but they don't turn their report in until January of the next year we're still going to ding them for February and whenever any other month to there I I I believe there's a county process because the county has an affordable housing um program it's pretty well defined and a lot of municipalities use that I think we could probably look at the C how the county requires the reporting and then just work that into here and it' be consistent with what's already being done right but could you instead of doing it I mean monthly is an awful lot of paperwork for people to do um but I mean you could do it semiannually um and and that would give you a better feel as to how things are are going for that particular you could do annual or semiannual whatever whichever you prefer yeah monthly would be tough semiannual you you prob semiannual I mean that's a little bit you know gives you a little bit more peace of mind okay one other point um I mean I think the penalties are important and we should if we're going to impose penalties we need to stipulate what they are and I do not know what would make it uneconomic to violate the rules or but I think that that means needs to be um maybe staff could look into what would make it uneconomic to violate the rules and that should be the level at which we um the penalties are imposed and they should be imposed and I I would say just from my background if you violate in February and you don't report until the of January of the next year you get penalties and you get interest and I would propose that here as well and if does the county have and stipulate penalties in their ordinance I'm not sure what they are off the top of my head but I've read that particular provision recently and I believe there are penalties involved I I I'm sorry but I just I mean I saw too many YouTubes over this in the last couple of but but I know that somebody and I don't know where in Florida has you know a penalty um okay um well it does say we it's the policy of the village to seek the maximum daily fines Allowed by by law for each such violation so on and so forth but there probably have not yet been um amounts determined yet because this is new correct and that would be done through special magistrate correct so our special magistrate would would then assign the highest possible violation but we have to have an statute to make sure that because if this my my concern is that the violation amount is something very di Minimus and then it just if it $30 you'd someone would so I'm not sure about that on some Far they're only up to a few hundred dollar I haven't been to a magistrate meeting in quite a while but the last time it wasn't I never heard of $30 so it needs to be not as SL usually quite I think we need to add that probably in the section that has our penalties and as well okay yeah those may have to be determined the numbers well if they're going to go back and see what the county has done and has stipulated and I'm sure you know Dylan can go and find out I mean keep keep in mind there would also be a use violation where we would essentially be able to come in and say you you can't occupy these units anymore you can no long you're in violation of your live local you're in violation of your site plan approval you were no longer allowed to lease these units and we are also going to have fines running so um they they would not be yeah there's a lot of different mechanisms we could use to punish somebody okay and there's leans and foreclosure and everything so but Marie I can honestly tell you they've never ever did aor out okay I'm telling you from the bottom of my heart okay um yeah the other I mean I my first point though on the Aesthetics that I don't think that the statue requires us to not have or to relinquish all all of the authority over what the buildings look like because though I think where this might happen are ones of incredible importance to the Village here because it's right in the center of our town is where this whole swath is so I think that it's I I think it's very important that we not give away anything that we don't need to give away um and I would strongly encourage my fellow board members to do the same re respectfully disagree with the interpretation and and the the local planning directors around here all have had had a meeting and and um generally were in the same agreement um and really the whole gist of the live local act I'm not I'm not saying I agree with it or not but it was so that there would be an administrative approval process so without that administrative approval process there really is no live local act it was done so that local it it was done no it was done so local municipalities couldn't say cu the state is trying to encourage affordable housing they didn't want people to arbitrarily be able to say no you can't do this because it looks ugly well but it that wouldn't be able what we would be able to say the the issue that I have is that they can do it but I think we should still have control over what it looks like as the elected officials and it doesn't say that in the statute that that is lished it says that all of the otherwise applicable development regulations and the comp plan priorities but the issue is local communities local planning boards or devel design review boards can say well we don't you know this isn't nice enough and they can you can add $2 million of cost onto a building and now a developer can't build it and that's that's essentially why the state did this and that's like I said respectfully I don't agree with it I wish I wish that it could come before the board but the interpretation of everyone I've talked to I think the attorneys I I haven't seen one indication that that it's not able to that doesn't mean that there aren't things that staff could do during that Administration approval process to say this is inconsistent with the comp plan or but I appreciate that so so we we will we will I assure you we will do our best to look at the comp plan in any code provisions and ensure that a live local project is as good as possible within the parameters of what we're what we're confined to do but taking it forward without through the LPA or pzb your Council process I don't believe we can legally do that that's well that was something that was sorry but that was brought up on the YouTube thing and they said you couldn't do that well I would so ask who is making that statement too because there are a lot of interests the line pushing this forward okay I don't remember I I will say the anti-development interests which is my the planners that I know that hate this act have all agreed that that that that your hands are tied your hands are tied okay but we can we can Implement what we just and you can just go through as far as the the reporting and the penalties we do have the authority to do that make sure make sure that there are could I suggest that on the penalties since I don't that we have those come back to us and so we can see that I mean I'm not sure that goes to the magistrate doesn't come to us well no because I think we need to have what the penalties would laid out what they would be right I mean I think so I think that just goes to the magistrate it's it would be up to the magistrate the magistrate is the one who does I'm Marie I'm really sorry it's been a while since I've had looked at how the magistrate and Dylan you can correct me but the magistrate is the one who sets the penalty as far as the condition of what is and the magistrate would know what other if anybody else was in violation the magistrate I'm sure it because they're lawyers and the magistrate is authorized impose for violations of the code a recurring fine of up to $250 per day on a property on the whole property correct okay so that I mean to me that might actually not be it per day for okay all right well but it would be higher for I think it needs to be per unit in this case because I want it to be totally uneconomic so violated it but then I don't know I mean it could easily depending on these are huge projects and you could $250 per day if you were TR have if you did go for more market rate rents and then I mean you could that that those finances might work to violate instead of and just pay the 250 but I don't there's still it's still doesn't there's still the use issue I mean so we fortunately we do own our own utilities so I mean if it came if it really down to it we'd shut the we'd shut their water off can you I don't know if they can I think I think we could get the mag I think we get the magistrate to agree to shut the water off I don't think I could go in and do it take a look at that it's a separate issue all right yeah I'm not sure that two I I actually do have reservations about the 250 a day I mean I in most cases I think that would work we don't know what it's going to be too soon so it's that's an up to correct the it's up to $250 a day okay so that's the limit that he can impose so that what I my point is that depending on what the market rate units are and I think you can expect them to be fairly expensive and this them out as market rate and just pay the village and I I I believe that you know it would the violation would probably likely be per unit okay right I mean it's it's no different than how you would treat any um you know apartment or a condominium unit you're violating per unit you're not involved if there's some kind of code violation it's in the individual unit uh you there could be a situation where the common property is violated and the property owner as a whole okay um but most often it's done on a per unit basis but this is the just theer owner who's violating right because the these aren't individual they're not individually owned they're just they're rentals here um which is why I'm concerned about the no I mean if it doesn't say unit then we don't I mean per unit and $250 a day probably does get us to the point where it's uneconomic to violate it um but $250 for a large parcel that's got a lot of units I'm not sure it does that's my concern sorry so I I would actually like to see that to hold this and see that coming come back to us you could maybe it's you know what I will so from past life I think you can do $250 per violation so each individual unit would be its own violation so but we could clarify that if if you want it in the code to say each individual unit that's violating the terms of this is its own individual violation we could put that in the that could be the recommendation well it does say each separate requirement that is violated shall constitute a separate violation yeah right and every day that the violation continues to exist shall constitute a separate violation right but you have are you doing that as the building as a whole or on the the unit each unit that they are right okay it's a separate violation each one would be a separate violation I'm not sure that I'm I actually am not sure based on that language that that that gets you there because especially in imposing penalties you want to be really clear what you're imposing the penalties on and I do agree that each separate violation will is helpful um but in the live local what you have to do and I don't have it in front of me I apologize but the live local act what is how do you define a viol because if you just violated the live local act then that's a violation and it's a separate one and it's not on a per unit basis and I apologize for being a stickler on this but each separate requirement so if each unit is but I'm not sure we know that do is that that's what says but I feel from the reading of it it's it's fairly clear in each separate re okay okay all right now all right all right now you still wanted the yearly reporting right so if if someone's looking to make a motion don't forget to add that into the motion okay but do we want to do it semiannually or do I I I think semiannually might be better than I mean monthly is asking but I think semiannually it gives them a little bit more of a thing and then if they're not doing what they're supposed to do then they know they'll know the first time they're getting fined so I think it's a I didn't write this down and I'm sorry I can't right it's also possible you could make a recommendation that we mirror the County's annual reporting policy for affordable housing because it's going to be a lot more well-crafted and well defined and we can just copy and paste that into can write that I I can't write I mean my penmanship is disgusting yes on the the miror in the county I that's I think that's a good idea although I would like to see that first to see what they're requiring before I mean I guess I The Village Council this is the recommendation and they're going let me tell you they dissect after we get done so I and and then any other changes would come back through us right again okay if we're we're ready to for public comments 20 Shady Lane um I I just want to point out I know there's been a lot discussed and I'm not sure who's leading this charge um but the fact that we're seemingly rushing to change our code to accommodate an act that is potentially so detrimental to our village and that residents are vly against is very frustrating I don't see any reason that we're even discussing this but it seems to be Paving the way and making it easier for developers to come in and potentially put it to use but again I didn't see where you guys even needed to be discussing this thank you thank you I believe we just have to have something on the books yes we do and we can change it as we go along and and just to clarify because I didn't do the full presentation from before but but the state's Act is in place whether or not we adopt anything we but we wanted to put some things in writing so that we could clear up any ambiguity one of them especially is the mixed use requirement the the state statute says that if a municipality is less than 20% commercial or has what is is it 20 25 yeah if if less than 20% of a municipality is commercial or industrial then to be qualified as a live local act it has to be a mixed use project right so somebody couldn't just come in and do purely Apartments they would actually have to do a mixed use project and our code defines that a mixed use project is is um at least 20% commercial so it essentially means that for if someone were to come in let's let's use the instance of County Line Plaza if they said hey we want to just tear county line plaz out and put in a live local act and we can get a 10-story building and put in 400 units we would say well that's great but you have to have 20% of your project has to be commercial and there's a little bit of ambiguity there and with our comp plan so we wanted to codify it and make sure that that was clear in writing um and then again with the enforceability like the violations that Dylan just mentioned um you know we we put a few things in there saying we're going to we're going to seek the highest possible fine if you're in violation of this act so we did a few things just to clarify that you know we're not going to take it soft if someone's trying to to to do a live local project um we're not what what's in this act by no means makes it easier for a developer to do a live local project it's the opposite in my opinion I think so yeah and we're all against it so okay um Marco Jared no any comments okay uh public comments are closed and any last board comments before we I have no um board comments but okay Dylan how do we do the motion for the recommendation so it would be a semiannual report a motion to recommend um ordinance -24 while with a recommendation of including a a semiannual reporting requirement um included and then under violations is it is it possible to just add as a recommendation to maybe firm up sure viations you could direct staff to you know uh conduct research and to you know modify the language to the extent possible to make it as uh stringent as you can well and and and uh exact more um I don't I'm not sure see I don't I'm not a lawyer so I can't sure I don't know but uh but I'm I'm just wondering if we can't maybe um it just adds request language to further Shore up the penalties and violations sure and that would go under the violation section yes violation enforcement right yes is that is that is that what you're looking at as you want to yeah because I mean I know we we're going to be having to change things as time goes by so and you you know you might see it come back yes in the future if there well more changes and everything okay then can you re can you reveral eyesee that so we know so I'm I think what I'm hearing is a is a desire for I can't write anything down that's okay is a recommendation um for approval of ordinance 0024 with the recommendation of the addition of a semi semiannual reporting requirement for individuals taking advantage of the live local regulation and directing staff to um conduct further research into um violation and to modify the violation section to make it more exact as possible per unit per unit in an ad language per unit thank you I'll make that motion thank you danlan I'll second that motion okay so the motion we have on the floor is to recommend approval of ordinance -24 with the recommendations that the request as as Dylan has read into the record okay um all in favor I I all opposed no okay the uh the item motion pass national motion passes okay and then we have um item three introduction to living shorelines code yeah I I anticipated this meeting would run a little long so I didn't want to do a full presentation on this but just wanted to give a heads up that we're going to be bringing forward a living shorelines ordinance uh hopefully at the next meeting um living shorelines uh right now we really don't have a um seaw wall code in the village it's pretty pretty out there honestly so um we're kind of going to try and firm up what our our um seaw wall Cod is and we're uh ju the town of Jupiter a few years ago adopted a living shorelines ordinance we're going to um we've used some of the the best things that they've put in there but we've tweaked it a little bit and and made it a little more to Questa specific um to mirror some things in in our comp plan and um you know there's a few glitches that they've found that were in their code that I think we fixed so we're going to the ultimate gist is we want to try and create when when people redo um their their existing seaw walls that they would come in and put rip wrap and mangroves and things that would create um improve water quality create some habitat for animals um and then also um take some steps to preserve natural shorelines so there are some areas where people haven't hardened their their seaw walls unfortunately in Florida you know I've got a slide I'll show you next month but we've Harden our our shorelines too much throughout Florida um but we do actually still have some natural shorelines so um there's some code language I'm working on but it'll it'll make it a little more challenging for somebody to to make a natural Shoreline um hardened with a seaw wall or a bulkhead um I do did Juno Beach I mean years ago I mean they were losing majority of their condos due to the beach erosion did they ever um go through so this is actually going to be focused more on the in the locks aache and in the the inter Coastal so this is this is this is going to be sea yeah this is going to be bulkheads and seaw walls on Riverfront properties okay yeah so um sure is there a reason not to include the ocean so last year the Village Council tasked staff with with looking at that and mostly mirroring the Jupiter code that that was already done for living shorelines within you know kind of locks of hatch were neighboring properties um the beach was not talked about at that time so I've been focusing mostly on on kind of the the riverfront aspect of it and and more of like um bulkheads and seaw walls not actual Ocean Front um if there's any suggestions you have at next month bring them and we can Workshop them um that might be a whole another that's probably a whole another separate project down the road but right now it's river river focused we've I mean Leslie can agree with me and so can I um when we've had certain developments I mean we've noticed that the seaw walls weren't you know being properly maintained when they were redoing the entire we we really told them that that was mandatory for them to strengthen it up so I'm sure I'm assuming that somebody went and followed through with all of that am I correct hopefully okay um we also don't have a um fill process so I'm familiar with this from from North Palm Beach sometimes people will come in and they'll try and extend their property out so there's geot tubes now we had people in North Palm that would go in and they dig up the riverfront you put them in a it's called a geot tube it's like a composite plastic or something and then you you just put it out on the bank of your property and now all of a sudden you have a bigger property um or people will just come out and try or they would just try and extend their property out further we don't have a formal process where we can tell people no you can't extend your you can't extend your bulkhead or your seaw wall or you can't put fill on your property so um there's a few things that a lot of other cities that have Riverfront properties have in their in their code that I've tried to work into this code and so okay just wanted to give you guys a heads up it's coming it's coming on the road uh the eac's looked at some of the early stuff we're going to um I think next month we'll be doing living shorelines with them and with you so I've got I've got a busy month talking shorelines okay so I will try and send that as soon as we have a draft of that done I'll try and send it to to the board and to the EAC so everyone can look look at it maybe a little bit more in advance of a normal agenda going out oh good that be nice yes thing you did a great job explaining I'm also the chair of the environmental advisory committee and one of the things that's really important about this is that as sea level is rising all of the sea grass that's currently growing where it is will need to migrate shoreward in order to still get the same amount of light to continue growing and if we have these hard seaw walls they have nowhere to go shoreward and that's what creates like dead zones so fishermen you know will have nothing to catch you know it's it's really helpful to have a short that will allow things to migrate shortward yeah thank you great Point Jessica and also to that point too I forgot to mention that um in North Palm Beach we had a coastal engineer do a study uh that projected future sea level rise and that actually where we actually demanded that uh when people put in new seaw walls or repaired existing seaw walls that they were built up to a little bit higher Point than current than they currently are or that we allowed people to build a little bit higher just the factor in that King tides are getting higher we're having more of them or that that um sea level rise may be happening so the code I'm bringing to you also has a process that will allow people to build slightly when people have an existing seaw wall they'll be able to build it up a little bit higher okay but they would have to come to the village and to get they still have to go through the permitting process okay okay all right thank you that's it okay so uh we're ready to adjourn actually um if I could I don't know if we had time for a board comment but um I wanted to say one thing to my fellow board members how long are you going to be just a minute it'll be super short um sorry I have an appointment this is actually pretty important I think so earlier this year I went on an architectural tour of Worth Avenue that was organized by local architecture group um it was excellent informative and I highly recommend it um in light of the highly disappointing vote by three members of the council to Scuttle all of the years of work that began with the Treasure Coast Regional planning committee LED CommunityWide shet shet and culminated in the overlays I think the LPA um should visit Worth Avenue and take this tour in the very near future with the original devel Worth Avenue did was to create a place that is distinctive and that has objectively beautiful architecture it didn't happen by accident everything there is intentional and it was all carefully planned note that Worth Avenue has the same function as the very not beautiful County Line Plaza we just discussed it is retail space but because of careful stewardship Worth Avenue is not another anonymous and obtrusively ugly strip mall creating a village that is distinctive and that has beautiful architecture should be our goal too and it is a goal that is completely within reach for Testa it is not more expensive to do better since Mr Sartor Mr French and Mr painter decided to throw out the work of the village and all of the expenses the taxpayers paid for over the past few years I propose that we as the LPA start over two our first stop should be to take this tour in Palm Beach to gather ideas and inspiration with Worth Avenue as our model I ask that you request the council or we request the council to allocate the cost of tour fees that it require for each staff member in Community Development all of the LPA and alternates and members of the council that would like to attend and our attorney Mr Brandenburg to go all go on the tour space permitting I would suggest that we open any other available spots to residents of the village as well this is a very minimal cost but I think it would yield great benefits as we move forward in trying to make Testa a beautiful Village for years to come thank you okay thank you and if I can have a motion to adjourn I will make a motion to adjourn I will second okay the meeting is we are adjourned I did that t it's amazing one of my favorite places and I can't drink