##VIDEO ID:NwTKLt9Gfgc## thank don't have ESPN ABC watch up here said probably [Music] is the two bags of candy that was on the drawer for the manager is gone for to get back I'll get started okay good evening everyone it's 6:00 p.m. I'd like to call this meeting to order it is September 3rd 2024 and this is our Workshop meeting Lori can I get roll call Mayor Young here vice mayor sir Tori here council member Brandon council member painter here council member French thank you Lori our first agenda item tonight is to discuss a dequest to drive grade crossing quiet Zone construction requirements Doug excuse me good evening mayor Village Council wanted to bring this back to you for a discussion um on the options that we talked about for the implementation of The Quiet Zone and um tonight I also have Rory here with the uh Federal rail Administration to answer any questions that you might have pertaining to the quiet Zone and the scoring criteria and sort of where we're at at this point so we had two options because we didn't meet that criteria for the quiets on those parameters that the F uh puts in place and the uh first option was adding two exat at the Crossing and after talking with the F and Palm Beach County Transportation Authority and the FC The Village would have to um work that out directly with the FC because it is our road it's a private road and it's our Crossing so we we wouldn't be able to obtain funding uh from um from the state from the do so we would have to make that um request to the FC and then talk to the FPC about the cost to uh for that implementation of putting two exit arms we know we're looking at somewhere between five and 500 and $600,000 to add Crossing arms and signalization at that Crossing we would then be responsible for the construction from start to finish um in previous conversation we also talked with the PM Beach County Transportation Authority um looking for some funding for that project and they have reported back to us uh there currently isn't any funding for that project um and it could be year 25 26 27 they're really not sure so funding isn't um readily available for those exit gates the other option we had um we have a commercial driveway on taquesta drive at um 304 uh tqu drive that is within 100 ft of the crossing and it's too close to the crossing off so I reached out in several conversations with the property owner and explain the situation to him and what we were looking to do and possibly relocating uh the existing uh driveway uh he was in favor he understood uh the need for the community and he was in favor of the village taking on that project um taking on the construction taking on the cost and also um just coordinating any construction with his tenants um he made it clear that um he's not participating as far as uh adding um U any cost on the project if the village was willing to do this at their cost um and and we managed the project he was okay with that um in addition if we modify uh the existing driveway we also have to bring the current facility up to the current fire code um so I met out there with Wayne Fire Chief and also uh Jay and in order to meet the current fire code we'd have to uh put a fire hydrant at the um face of the building the front of the building in the RightWay and we would also have to extend the pavement on the east side of the property um for fire access the only other option to meet the fire code would be for the property owner to install a sprinkler system in his facility and he has no desire to do that at this time um so if you look at the picture there which is probably in your notes as well that highlight that pavement that's extended uh on the east side in the green that's actually Village property so um in moving the driveway if you look at the on requested Drive uh the driveway right now sits in the corner that's not shown on that drawing so in the drawing I'm actually showing uh where we would move the uh the driveway too the access point we'd have to relocate some Hedges some Landscaping some irrigation we'd also have to um move around some parking spaces and the property owner is also aware that he would lose uh around two parking spaces by changing his uh the current configuration so he's okay with that um in talking with Rory and Rory was kind enough to meet me out on on site two times and go through all the criteria that we would need and reviewing this um this would get us to that point where we could qualify and apply for a quiet s um there are associated costs with moving the driveway and um again it's relocating the driveway and extending the pavement on the east side uh the fire the fire hydrant um survey and Engineering plans from one of our Consultants uh Landscaping a u safety signage that I went over with there's a lot of signage that has to go out on tester Drive Old Dixie on all four quadrants um as far as putting signage out on Old Dixie that would also require permitting and an agreement with Palm Beach County because that's Palm Beach County RightWay um I've already talked to Palm Beach County they have uh there's no hesitations if we move forward with the Quiet Zone that we could uh you know obtain permitting and put some signage out on the required signage out on Old Dixie as well uh I do have some contingency cost in here as well so we're looking at a total estimated cost of 9,525 60 for the relocation of the the driveway and all the associated construction and that also includes all the signage that we would need out in the public rideways and uh it's just also worth noting that this is not in the current budget so if we were to bring this forward to a meeting for a vote we would have to appropriate funds out of out of general fund out of the reserve for this project but again I have Rory here and I'd like to bring him up if you have some questions about the quiet s itself and and the scoring criteria and why we're doing all this work thank you good evening I'm Rory Newton I'm a railroad safety inspector at the federal rail Administration I'm with the great Crossing trespass and Outreach Division and my division is one of our primary responsibilities is assisting public authorities with establishment of quiet zones so I'm happy to answer any questions explain the quiet Zone Federal Regulation and kind of how Doug and I came to the conclusions we did what your Qui Zone May required to be established okay thank you Council open up for conversation guys caned um thank you for being here and Doug thank you for your work and just staff in general I know it's been a lot of work and it probably turned out to be more than a lot behind the scenes with the Quiet Zone surpris sometimes Roy you're confident that what we're proposing tonight and what we're going to discuss tonight will satisfy everything right we thought we had it satisfied ones before if I remember and we were missing maybe we didn't know we didn't have the extent of knowledge that we have now I thought the the Qui zones are established there's several ways to do it uh and the just some terminology to be aware of that you're not applying for a quiet Zone you're self- establishing a quiet Zone you're coming to the federal government saying we have met the criteria we we want a quet Zone enforced here and how that is done is done with the there is a calculation taken from The Crossings or crossing in this case simple one Crossing qu Z it's pretty simple and there's a a risk index for the crossing based off of the motor vehicle count train traffic train speed number of lanes and uh number of accidents and there's a a scores generated there's a whole math formula within the rule that comes up with that score and is called The Quiet Zone Risk Index and that includes uh the safety device of the crossings that require Gates lights Bells um there's a bunch of other stuff I don't know if you need to get into that tonight but and what H what is happening is you're taking the train horn away from the crossing that is calculate as a safety feature so that has to be replaced with we call supplemental safety measure as Doug said four quadrant Gates the exit gates is one type of measure uh a median down the center of the road it meets a certain criteria has to be certain height certain length driveways can't be within that boundary is another type and that's where we have come to you basically already have the median installed the curb length is sufficient it is uh has to be no less than 100 ft it has to be no more no less than 6 in in height and there is an exception that if there's a cross street or a public Alleyway within 60 ft you can still use that median and get full credit for the sub safety measure and that's what we measured out we measured I think three or four times just to be sure cuz it's really you know there's no variance there's no waivers there it's it's it is exactly 60 ft or or there's no quite it's 59 and and 9 in feet and N inches it's not going to get established but we measure it was like 65t I think a couple feet to spar we had a not perfect measurement it was long enough on the Eastern side of the crossing the west side has the 100 ft however that that driveway in itself is uh not permitted within the using that median is part of the rule uh it's part of there's a a bit of a flaw in the rule where the driveway you know the only way they go is turn right they come to an approach gate and it's like well what's the problem and the problem is the rule doesn't address it and there's no we can't wave it so we have to just exclude the driveway have it either we don't use that SSM or the driveway gets closed or relocated and that's kind of where we came to that conclusion so the meeting itself otherwise meets the criteria that six in six inch height that F Type curve is what's there and it's long enough and the only type of driveway that is allowed is a a residential driveway of four or less units so if you had a like a quad Plex with a driveway that wouldn't have been a problem but this being a commercial driveway they're specifically excluded from being allowed and uh looks like you came up with a solution so far and we um if I also understood it the other option would be Doug to do five or $600,000 to install the arms and we would be responsible for 100% of that meaning the construction liability what if they don't what if the arms fail well the railroads are are charged with maintenance of the crossing uh excuse me the compliance so you're not maintaining the crossing you you are paying for the equipment you're paying for the maintenance but the railroad by rule is liable for the proper functioning and the testing and it being kept up to the public safety standards with the it's actually in the same role or there two rol U the great Crossing role and the train horn role we dealing with here and the the gr Crossing rule covers the the standards of Maintenance by the railroad so if there's a failure we call an activation failure is one of the more critical things that can go wrong with the cross and the railroads responsible for that so they don't maintain it and the gates don't work that's not your fault you don't maintain that stuff you can't you can't touch it so our options to move forward with the to establishing that is either spending 2% of our res 1.8% of our unrestricted reserves or 10% of our unrestricted reserves right the the there are grants available but they generally they can't be for establishment of a quiet Zone if they they are out there but you kind of have to just talk out the side of your mouth saying we're just want improve safety but then you're going to staish a quiet Zone after it's going to be called the question um there is federal money given to the states it's called Uh section 130 funding it is administered through the Federal Highway Administration and that's given to every state based off the number of gray crossings they have in Florida particular the fdot splits the money up by District based on how many crossings they have per district and the district rail man managers and their uh colleagues decide which crossings get upgraded and that's totally up to them we program doesn't we don't get into between that the state where they upgrade Crossing so if you can convince them that they have that's programmed money it's not a grant they can it's discretionary for the State uh but I do know State of Florida programs that money five years out yeah they can't change their mind but and the engineer has the ability to blows horn anyway so the train horn rule great question actually is we call it a quiet Zone but it's it's more of a horn reduction zone so the rule the federal rule that requires the raar to below the horn for the gray Crossing it's part 222 is also the same rule that established the quiet Zone it is the only time the government requires the r to whistle is for a public Highway grade crossing which we call routine whistling so any other Circumstance the railroads are allowed to whistle for and there are it's almost exclusively safety issues we're talking trespassers uh great CR ing problems maintenance work being done other trains and the rule does specifically State the engineer has the sole judgment to whistle the for the for whatever reason and we FEC and bright line are have not had any compliance issues with quiet Zone they're not blow in the horns The Crossing because they feel like it every time we get a complaint about a quiet zone so far my tenure here has been related to other work being done on on and around the railroad that is temporary in nature and or just a oneoff safety issues usually people hear the horn something has happened they they're hear about to hear a collision with a train and a motor vehicle running around the gates or a trespasser that's running down the track it we have a very big problem with trespassing in Florida n Nationwide actually and so we still hear lots of train horns but it's a massive reduction I mean that horn is blowing for that crossing without fail whether there's people there or not without a quiet Zone quiet Zone they're only blowing when they when they really have to In your experience the um you said there's a score that's a sign I'm not asking what the score is or anything like that I don't know yeah but the it's pretty hard it's a hard number though but a similar Road in other parts of the state with similar traffic patterns with similar an accidents and a similar speed you know because of coming over the bridge the train may be going about 45 or 50 miles an hour when it hits the quester drive I mean is your experience that um that assuming there's not you know a car there or maintenance going on I mean how often do they have to report when they blow the horn in a no there there's there's no reporting for just what that engine it's it's it happens hundreds of times a day I mean bright line I mean I I ride I one of my duties is I ride in the cabs loc modes and observe the train Crews and their compliance with federal regulations and going between Miami and Orlando they will encounter numerous trespassers numerous motor vehicle operators not adhering to the warning devices it is a constant an unending problem of people not staying off railroad tracks and not obeying Crossing signals to the point the State of Florida had to change the law to make it much more severe to ignore Crossing signal believe it's now a $500 fine and six points on your license if you go around the crossing gates or if you even uh stop on the tracks or something like that so it's um it is a problem okay but yeah the score itself is and the train speed it's we we go with the maximum authorized speed not the individual train speeds themselves so that number doesn't really fluctuate it only really fluctuates with accidents and our motor vehicle traffic counts the annual average daily traffic which is only calculated every three years after you establish it so and when you with your quiet Zone you're putting in that supplemental safety measure that's that that median that median has a permanent risk reduction applied to the crossing I believe it's I want to say the median is I look up up the book it's like 80% or 78% reduction in Risk it's always applied doesn't matter if you have 100 accents or zero that risk reduction is always applied for the long as the quiet zones in effect with a one Crossing quiet Zone the way the rule is written you will never lose your quiet Zone because of because of vehicle counts or traffic counts or accidents it's just the way it's designed and that's kind of the intention you're replacing the training horn with another safety measure so it's it's kind of a wash in our opinion and the safety measure is supposed to be a little bit better than the horn in terms of the amount of risk it takes away all right thank you um and just from my colleagues I we first talked about this I thought I I seem to be okay with it because of the dollar amount now I just now it seems like we're you know it's $990,000 it's a it's a significant amount of money to improve this gentleman's property and for the benefit of the residents that hear this all the time so I'm struggling a little bit with you know the night the cost of this and we us absorbing it all so that's kind of where my internal harur is coming from I have a I have a question I guess it's it's somewhat of your opinion but based on I you do this a lot do you do you see often we're going to have to Quest a drive if we get the quiet Zone there um which will be great for our residents but then we have Riverside and county line that are pretty close in your opinion are we is this just are we really solving the issue or are we still going to they're going to be able to hear it it's better over there and way over there than right here but that is a common challenge with quiet zones um adding additional Crossings uh is often a strategy some public authorities utilize when they don't have the resources to upgrade every Crossing because the score is an average of all the additional Crossing so you not it's not done by Crossing by Crossing it's the whole zone is taken together and you get an average risk score so you're going to be strategically placing the subal safety measures at your highest risk Crossings to get that number down bring your average your U uh your Risk Index uh with horns versus The Quiet Zone Risk Index which is you're trying to beat the with the horn score you're trying to beat that with your your quiet on score once you're below the horn score or the qu Zone could be established and that's just that's that average I was talking about so and I I I have heard conversations about the additional Crossing that is a is a it can be done it can may be we have to run those calculator see what the crossings are actually shaking out as without actual other improvements if those Crossings have improvements let's just for sake of an argument they they have four quadrant Gates a lot of Crossings do already have upgrades because a PRI line had to do it for certain speed requirements they were going above 79 M hour they had had upgrade the crossings or provide other protection like a median or extra Gates you could use those ssms already installed most likely a four quadrant gate on your average and it may it may nullify but hypothe but I you we have to we have to explore that hypothetically if they never because they're different municipalities so they may just say we don't want to do it but if it is possible for multiple jurisdictions to work together I just more mean the what we're trying to solve here is this the noise obviously so Jupiter's applyed for the qu zone right Jupiter is they had a delay in their and they'll get their quiet Zone eventually here they just had to clean up a few uh compliance issues but they they had enough SSN they don't have ssns at every Crossing they had I think was it five or six Crossings off top of my head and I think four of them had extra Gates already installed by Brighton they're using them to their advantage the other two are not being upgraded at all so but yeah they I know I want to say uh Martin County had considered adding that Crossing they were considering a qu Zone too but they're in the same boat where are they what are we going to do how you going to do it where's the money going to be if there is any money to spend they want to spend no money too so but it is possible to have to you know have multiple jurisdictions work together Broward county is one massive 70 68 Crossing quiet Zone and it's all the communities have interlocal agreements with the main applicant which is actually the City of Hollywood as the lead applicant and they all are in in it together so but it's the challenge of that is it requires individual cities to be on compliance themselves if one town says oh we're not going to maintain the signs anymore we don't care well that could bust the whole Quai zone for everybody has reestablished without them which is you know a whole mess so yeah if you don't have those those you know prle Crossings you're going to be hearing Wars yeah okay um quick question and the um that map back up or the just scroll down a little bit the buffer for fire access that we're putting in so there's not going to be access from deed drive like they're going to pull in the new drive and drive over there correct that's corre and is that just because they need 20 ft um width in the drive a but there's no improvements like they can pull in off to Quest a drive where Drive is being relocated I mean I know you said you met with the fire chief and everything so we're completely good there they just need that 20 ft on the side of the building y does the other side of the building have it the other side of the building has a access point the lower left quadrant oh an entrance and it's actually one way in and one way out but that's an access point okay and then the um the 100 foot is that the minimum distance it has to be yes it's measure we measure that from theame give yourself a buffer there we we actually the contractor 110 feet absolutely do not do do not play to the minimum one of my my Tales survey can be slight lay off or something at St or your doesn't listen to you I had a community they put in nice medians down middle of the road it was beautiful perfect 100 feet it was offset by 5T from the measuring point and they had a 95t median so so I've just yeah definitely give yourself a buffer there if this was to move forward um so the um I think vice mayor brought this up but you know uh maray with with your organization and then also you brought up Palm Beach County uh we have to get um the okay to put some signs in there right away I mean do we have all of this stuff in writing so it's confirmed so we do move forward and spend this money we are going to be able to what did you we're self enforcing a Zone you say we're not you're self establishing you're responsible for the compliance so if I come along to your quaz and do an audit which you will be audited frequently and your signs are missing because it's a County Road and the county says you can't put signs up on our road that's a problem for you it's not a problem for me it is your quite Z so you have to find interlocal agreements and every Community has this problems this is not new and state of Florida has told us that they're neutral and so if we want to quone on a state road they're they're not going to interfere and pach County so far has not interrupted anybody else's quiet Zone they wanted to put up signs on County roads they let them do it what how that's done is between you and that ageny um like I said I would get it in writing so you m everything's in writing would be an interal agreement okay and through Perman we put the signs out there yeah but I've already spoke to the county and they're fine with that like said it's not a new process know agree I just like I said before if you know before another dime span I would definitely want all of that stuff guaranteed in writing that if we do this we're good to go in writing before or bring that agreement back if if Council wishes take us to a meeting for a vote we'd have that document as well yeah um and then I think some of these might be more for legal um you know it says there's an existing easement I it'd be nice to have a copy of that easement to look at um do we have an existing easement agreement there or I mean the property owner would have the easement with us we own that property correct so the the 10 foot wide P section is part of a 50 foot wide strip of land that the village owns between taquesta drive and Pine View Drive behind those the property in question and the five lots to the South we own that that strip of land um in 2002 FC conveyed it to Northern Palm Beach County and drainage District or improvement district and then in 2004 Northern basically gave it to the Village um interesting thing um one of the interesting things that caught my attention is when you look at the legal description for the for the 50ft strip it actually um has the meets and Bounds description but it also says that um it it is the property is meant to be for drainage easement purposes which is interesting that they put that in the legal description but they did it's there um I don't know what much else you could do with that 50ft wide strip you can't develop it under our current Land Development regulations there's no there's no the only the only properties that access it are the adjacent ones I you remember a few years ago we contemplated selling that way ended up not so all that to say uh if the council wanted to go forward with this no we would need to prepare uh and have executed a uh an easement over that 10 foot it's basically 10 ft by 195 ft part of the bigger parcel to allow for The Limited purpose of of what we need to do to accomplish bringing the property up to fire code which allows moving the access point which allows you to do your quiet Zone but we would we would have to do that um now property owner has indicated as as I understand it while they're willing to cooperate and allow the site to be adjusted they're not interested in coming out of pocket to do so so and any cost associated with this would have to be born by the Village um one issue that's been mentioned behind the scenes is well if that 10t by 195 ft strip land becomes parking lot or Fire Equipment access aisle for that property is that going to implicate property tax issues because it's no longer a municipal or public purpose you know the Florida Constitution exempts municipally owned and M Property that's used for a municipal or public purpose from from being taxed um maybe that would be the the case um I I could see an argument you know the law the law says is that um the the tax uh exemption incompasses activities that are essential to the health safety morals and general welfare of the people within the municipalities so there's an argument to be made that if granting that adj that use of that property is required to bring the proper to compliance with the fire code which is required to move the access point outside of the 100 ft which is required to establish a quiet Zone and if the council makes a factual finding that the quiet zone is essential to the public health safety morals and Welfare there's an argument to be made that perhaps it would still hold its tax exempt STS I don't know if that argument would carry the day I don't know if the property appraiser what what they would do with that if they decided no this is private use and we're going to tax it and if we'd have to fight about that in court I don't know but it's a I I think my point in bringing that up is is you know I'm not ready to just throw throw it out and automatically concede that it's a private use I think there's an argument to be made if if we get there if it becomes property that's taxed ible it's my understanding again that the property owner is not interested in paying that tax so then the question would become well how much are we talking about what what would the tax be on that 10t by 1995 ft strip of property I don't know U but the council would need to understand that if you wanted to go forward with this and that would be part of the cost of this it was $1,000 a year or $500 I don't know what that number is but we have to determine that number and that would be part of the cost of this um we would have to agree with the property owner that we would pay that is my understanding unless they've changed unless they change their position on that um in terms of the easement itself you know I think we can I'm comfortable that it could be written in such a way that it's for the limited purposes required for this to happen that it would remain in effect so long as the quiet Zone remains so long as the law doesn't change to no longer require this series of facts and so long as the property doesn't get redeveloped you know if someday they came in and bulldozed it and wanted to put something completely different well then it would go away and they'd be required to build uh the new development within the confines of the property and that would go away as well so all that can be done certainly not going to start putting pen to paper on that without the council telling me to um that was a lot I don't know if that answered your question or no it did I mean I think all those questions definitely need to be hashed out um and something else along those lines is I know in the agreement it says what the owner is able to use that area for it does say that we are responsible for the maintenance of it which I mean I was you know I've gone back and forth like you said it's it's a it's a big you know dollar amount and uh to pay for this owner to relocate the driveway I I'm conflicted I go back and forth I mean at the end of the day the taxpayers have already paid for the improvements that we have made to the row cross scene and it's benefiting the entire public and you know is it this property own's fault that bright L's coming through now and the whole Community On's of quiet zones so it's tough I go back and forth the maintenance though like well why do we need to Bear the maintenance is it within the same reasoning as that I don't know I go back and forth but if if with this specific property owner if you know that's a hard stop and they won't even cover the maintenance um I would like to clarify if things are caused by the owner that they would have to pay for repairs or or whatnot I didn't really see anything in there if there's damage done and it's not caused by the village who's responsible for that and then also like you you kind of brought up at the the property if they do a Redevelopment but what if the property is just sold with a new owner would we then be able to charge the new owner or have them do maintenance like you know there things to be considered there if the property sells as is too I think all those things should probably be defined and outlined in the agreement in my opinion yeah so if it if the property sold and the new owner was going to maintain the status quo I think that the the Grant of the use of the 10 foot strip of land would remain it's not a Redevelopment of the site you know in terms of Maintenance and that I'm kind of looking to Doug because I mean you had the conversations with the property owners um I don't know what they what they said in terms of you know because clear on how the village would maintain the 10 foot strip while they maintain the rest of it that that's well it's our property it's no different than any any other Road it's our property right it's our road so we would maintain in the same fashion we do with any road I would also suggest um whichever direction you decide to go in that we still pursue the exit arms and that you know at some point we can get those we just don't it just feel like it's it's years out but we should still go after that so in case something does happen with this property down the road we'll still meet the criteria with those exit arms so we'll still pursue that and at some point get the funding for that it's just not going to happen now um the that 10 foot by 195 I mean that is needed for fire access yes why why isn't it needed now because when when they had the co for that property they me current fire code oh so it's so if we make any modification to that property you have to make the current fire code and that would either be fire access the hydrant in the front or the property owner installing a sprinkler system in the facility um so I would imagine that perhaps you know when they if somebody sells that property and it's redeveloped they're going to have a sprinkler system facility do I recall that there was a conversation also about a dumpster to be relocated there Waste Management right now has a dumpster at the back side of their property would be the uh the southeast corner of the property so we would allow access to just move the dumpster over on our pavement so Waste Management could easily get just because of the angle because we're a little bit south of like the building next door is that you talked about one point of entry so these these parking lots these parking spots here they exit here is this just blocked by the roof okay goes all around the whole property so in theory that 10 foot section should never be touched because there's there's ample room for them to drive and park now correct they're going to back out and continue around that way it it would provide for an easier turn around the corner of that building it's tight and if you have a you have a pickup truck you're going to swing around and on basement but there will also be a dumpster in the back there Waste Management dumpster so you're only able to move so far into that new thank you thanks for this question any more questions questions okay all right I don't have any more so I'll open up for a public comment Maurice sairi Mara Peri I live in the country club um I think a much better alternative to the easement um which I object to on public property is to put up the double arms so I think that should be the direction that we're pushing towards um and I appreciate that it does mean a delay possibly um but maybe not we haven't actually it sounds like we haven't gotten all the information and applied for the the program or through the state that was described earlier um I wish that had been included in the backup um the because I do think that the option that we're considering likely has even far even greater cost to Village taxpayers um so it would have been nice to have that information in any event um effectively giving away Village own land through a an easement here um is not the right answer especially this Village land um this isn't just a driveway location we are giving up property rights that are owned by Village taxpayers um the to Drive Cypress Drive railroad location is strategically important for protecting critical V Village interests if the village relinquishes any rights to control the land at all even a portion of it um the interests that tried to sell it out from under the taxpayers before will likely try again and if you go forward with this plan the next time they'll also be able to argue that it's already carved up anyhow so we might as well just let it go this would be the first step for the village to lose effectively the whole acre of land that it owns in this strategic location the result would most likely be a massive development on Cypress Drive right next to the railroad tracks with the attendant loss of local businesses it should be noted that such a development would be adverse to the interests of the residents in that area who seek the quiet Zone and contrary to the small village priority of all residents giving away publicly owned land is not a popular policy in this region because everyone is highly sensitive to the egregious over development the State of Florida just tried it in Jonathan Dickinson park and you are all familiar with the results don't do the same thing here we should wait until we have the money to buy the Double Arms thank you you thank you thank you any other public comment all right Council we need to give staff some direction on this um and the so you said the the grant for that could fund those arms that's in the fiveyear can you explain that again you touched on it if we we can apply for a grant with the TPA yeah um there are some other grants that come about as well um but we don't have a time frame on the grant you know the TPA Grant is anywhere from 3 to five years um and it's not a guarantee but in speaking with the uh Transportation Authority um I feel confident at some point we could get it I just don't have a timeline and so when Council task staff with going out and seeing what what we needed for that quiet Zone this is what we're up against it's a time frame do you want to wait uh or there's another option here I apolog miss this earlier but do we know the potential amount of the grant would it cover the full cost of uh the Double Arms it could be a matching Grant uh most of the grants with the TPA are matching okay um so but there are as wory mentioned there are other grants that come come about but there's a whole process to apply for those grants uh you know it cost money to apply for the grants and sometimes you just don't get the scoring yeah so we've applied for many grants right there's a lot of money out there but we never seem to meet the criteria through on our community Through the TPA Grant best case scenario would be 3 to best Grant yeah that would for me that would be the best Avenue to go with the TPA Grant but that would be timing wise three to five is like yeah now best case there's a so you go down the rabbit hole right there's a there's a conversation in the background as well that um there's some additional safety enhancements that are needed at many of these Crossings and so we started pursuing that you know well how what what are those parameters and how much money and what what can we get we don't have all the answers that um I think right now they're talking about putting delineators uh in the middle on on the curent medians um maybe some fencing but we haven't heard anything about exit gates because of the substantial cost yeah yeah this Crossing bright will not upgrade this crossing any further U the the medians meet the criteria for the higher speed trains that they are operating anything above 79 mes hour for train speed the government required R line to improve the crossings either with gate arms or have a median of a certain minimal length and this median I don't think the trains exceed 79 D no so and uh so they they this processing wasn't in their Improvement plan as some other communities had several Crossing that were 110 m per hour tracks They had Gates put it all for for quadrants there is one other option here I I did forget to mention it is not the greatest option ever but is a Wayside horn is a they're not super common in the United States but they are an alternative doesn't require even establishment of a quiet Zone what it does is is a it's essentially a traffic control device that's installed at the Crossing and is maintained by the road authority not the railroad it does interconnect though with it and what it does it plays a horn sounded simulation only at the crossing the road does not blow its horn at the Crossing anymore unless there's an emergency or some kind of a problem of the Wayside horn fails and what it does it localizes the noise to The Crossing instead of as the train travels blowing through the quarter mile approach on either side but it is you still have the about the it's almost the same deciel it's a little bit less and it's not a train horn it's a attention getting tone of sorts it's a little more greeting train horns are actually music notes you know so that is maybe an alternative would not require you to have move driveways or mess around any of that stuff it just it is another kind of apparatus that some communities do do use each time the train passes it make it replaces the train hor so but like I said it's they're all weather speakers are mounted at the Crossing You' be out there and this thing would be blasting you in the face and but you don't hear the noise down line so it it is is a bit of a trade for the for the noise where the noise is one thing I think we would be helpful for us all to know was a good point that ke brought up was if the if there is some kind of property tax trigger what the exposure is there potentially um I thought about that too much but yeah I don't know how hard that is to figure out but that' be good to know yeah and I mean easement we're not giving up our like we're not selling the property we're not necessarily giving up our property it's like on my property FPL has the easement right but I own it and you know have the easement greet with them to run their you know power through my yard but I mean how easement gives the holder of the easement rights to use the property for the purposes that are articulated in the easement so in this case it would be for the limited purpose of I don't know if it's for the drive AIS or a parking place or whatever it is they would have limited permission during such time as it's required to use that but no we would still own the 50 the entire 50 foot wide however long it is a strip of land have an overlapping right to access that 10 ft of it for their purposes we'd be giving you certainly are giving um a property right to them to use it you're not giving away the fee you still own the land U but you are giving giving away rights to use it um I don't Keith is it much different than the public accessing our roads they drive on our roads I mean it's is it also the same comparison we're we're allowing them to drive on a road that the village ons that happens to be adjacent to their property it's still our property is still our road yes no I asked you a question oh I'm sorry so you really thinking about that help you know the roads are are dedicated to the use of the public whether it's on a plat or whenever the the neighborhood is developed um typically the developer of whatever the project is you'll have a plat the roads will be platted and it'll say this this dedicated to the Perpetual use of the public the government Authority has the maintenance responsibilities but if the road is ever abandoned then it reverts back to to the the original property owner or if they're not around then you cut it in half and it goes to the adjacent properties and that they would they would own it if it was ever abandoned this case we own the that 50ft wide stretch of property it's ours we have a deed um You're simply saying on that 10 foot wide piece you're allowing the adjacent property owner to have the right to use it for their for their parking purposes really is it for their fire safety purposes it's and you know this so it's not like they came to us and asked we need this we went to them and we're like we need this yeah we're not striping it for additional parking's no yeah no so it's it's really it goes back to what your original statement of you know health safety welfare moral agreement or moral we need it to do what needs to be done to implement the quiet Zone they they don't need it they they don't want it they're agreeing to allow it to happen I guess it just would be nice to have some of those things um clarified more like exactly what the easement is going to say you know clarify what happens if the property changes hands clarify well and I'm happy to do that but I wasn't going to write up a document without Council direction we we would put something together for you and send a you know have a draft for you to discuss further for sure yeah like if the properties redevelop you know are they required to remove that and restore to you know it's just grass now basically right is there any what's there now is it just grass there's some bushes there just a Corral Fence and and a hedge right so like if the properties R developed the required restore back to that you know um yeah I would I would write language into the document that that says the easement will remain until such time as it's the quiet Zone goes away it's no longer needed to maintain the quiet Zone to still be there because the law changed the property gets redeveloped um such that you're going to have a whole new development that doesn't doesn't implicate that they'll have to redevelop on their within their property lines all of that would would be be SP on that point um I'd like to just hear from rori let's say that happened property owner sells the property and they want to redevelop that property and we don't have the exit gates we lose the cross we lose the quiet Zone um we don't really care about your easement problem long as that driveway is not 100 fet you can have your quiet Zone that SSM will remain the same long as that driveway does not get moved back with into the boundaries of its criteria the safety measures have a specific criteria and this all this an this is a community issue but as far as the quone concerned it's not it's not relevant so moving the the driveway movement is what is valuable to you here because that's what's stopping you from having the quet Zone we're using the that median as a safety measure for The Quiet Zone andless we explore the other options there are some other Alternatives that that may have similar cost and more costs but may not as much as ex Gates but it won't require required the easement but it's you know going to take time to figure it out and so the grants that are out there also uh there's some federal grants but they're not you know tomorrow they're if you apply today it may not be a year year and a half for C to see the funding assuming you even get awarded the grant so so if that property was sold and it was redeveloped they would have to meet the current fire code without that pavement as long as that driveway didn't move we would still the right which they would be obligated to do if we didn't give them that access now anyways that's what I'm saying like if the property were to be redeveloped I think we take that away and they need to make it the Redevelopment fit per Cod for their actual yeah property boundaries um and then the tax you know the tax information that Patrick brought up I think there's just too many unknowns um and I you know I don't know what the consensus is because I know you were on the fence spending the money I don't I wasn't sure clear where you were so I think we need a consens if we do want to move forward and think this is the best path with the information we have now with the cost versus waiting for maybe Grant three to five years later and if so I think we need the additional information and I would think it would need an additional Workshop too probably I agree just to make sure everyone agrees yeah yeah I would like to get the input of and this is is becoming more of a decision I think and be nice to have five voes at the same time yeah I think we have to Workshop anyways at this point yeah I think it would it would be easy to say if you were just looking at the cost as it exists today 90 and 500 the part that's thrown me for Loop is the potential for a grant in the future if we wait it but there's we're never going to know how long that's going to be and you know we were doing this for the benefit of our residents every day week month it goes by they're losing sleep and you know so time matters here yeah I think it's the hard part is we you know we did commit to the community majority we heard from wanted a quiet Zone and we committed them we would proceed do we commit the exact time frame no is the process is what it's going to be but um is the Grant I mean is hey Doug aor is the grant like a maybe or is it like act pretty easy grant to get or is it totally a gamble like not always guaranteed kind of thing yeah imagine the only ones applying for Grants are startingly competitive the federal ones we had uh last year called the Chrissy Grant uh it was about a a billion and grant money available for road crossing or railroad safety projects and public projects uh they had 8 billion in applications so and Florida did get several of those so they it is the safety of the crossings in Florida is definitely a issue that is being looked upon and we would love to see Crossings safety improved so if you pursu the grant for exit gates I can't promise or guarantee anything but there is a desire to improve these Crossing safety uh and more gates tends to help some of that stuff your me Medan itself is pretty good uh there's actually a combination of ssms you can do median and the four project Gates would really well safe that you can make it honestly without taking the crossing out all together I think we need to Workshop it again with the addition of that new information um okay I agree thank you so much that was Doug want to remind you of the actual process of qu Zone there is the first stage is called the notice of intent is the first formal step a Public Authority takes and there is a minimum 60-day uh window that when you s out your notice in 10 it's just it's just the the statement we're going to establish qu Zone here's the crossing and the type of qu Zone and it goes to the railroads in the state actually actually technically not a party to it but we do happily take copies of it and that gives the the railroads their two months to make comments on issues or provide no comment and same thing with the state and that's one of the only uh fars of self-established quiet Zone goes for timing and then the notice of establishment is the final document in between everything when the quad Zone's all let everything's perfect everything's great there's a 21-day clock minimum on that from you send out the the notice of establishment 21 days later then the train horn cease that's give the ra opportunity to set up the quiet Zone from their end of an operational standpoint is uh I think I know answer this but can you do the notice of intent or do you have to wait till all the improvements in our case the curve the curve being moved and then we the 60-day clock would start or could that 60-day clock start before the noi can be done at any time it doesn't it doesn't expire uh we've had nois go years before the the quone was even established so it's it's just your intent but you can't change what you're intending to do so if you doing your one Crossing quiet Zone then you say oh well we want to include County l Road now you got to start no but it's only a 60-day recess not a whatever okay so yeah you can do noi tonight if you wanted to I mean it's it's it's it's a very basic it's the rule it's basically you write a letter to the government it's not there's not even a form for it and this is just strictly curiosity except no I've never been in the encourage you to ask questions and understand this process because numerous communities fail to understand this Rule and it ends up biting in the butt after they've made all the promises to the constituents and I think they got it done and it's like no you have to have all the stuff installed done before you st your qu Zone not after and then you get your qu Zone it's it is like I said it's completely on the Public Authority to comply with this Rule and I can't stress that enough question it is your quiet very little usefulness I'm just curious I'm I'm more than happy to come back and answer more questions no this just a quick one but so when a is it strictly automated or how does the conductor like they're going through a lot of Crossings is there like a little screen that pops up that's like hey they know where the quiet zones are yeah the the railroad train Crews uh they have to be knowledgeable of the territories they operate on these uh train crews are tested they have to they call a physicals test or characteristics test and they have to know where all these points of reference are there's not just quetone is not the only they worry about they worry about control points signals speed changes they have to most stuff is have to have memorized and they're tested on it they have to be recertified on it for the railroad safety is very very stly regulated and I I know the bright Line train crews are required to pass their physical careis test with 100% without any testing AIDS too which is a very very high Benchmark most at least give them the timetable the reference because they have that book with them wherever they go anyway so so yeah the quiet zones they out the road uh FC frequently puts up signs all on the right the track right away it notifies them this is a quiet Zone they don't whistle for that Crossing most of their D it's Habit to blow the horn they just yeah that's what it's all day long to push that button that's kind of what I was get but uh and as we're seeing this the pattern of The Quiet zones going uh to Quest as one of the many communities looking at quiet zones on the bright line Corridor there is at least 10 quiet zones in some form of process right now all the way from West Palm Beach to uh Coco so we we're expecting to see almost the entire quarter become one continuous Zone but through many different establishments but from my excuse me West Palm Beach to Miami is C Zone 100% there's no gaps every Community has established at some form or some point good to know okay thank you very very useful information so are you guys are you clear on the direction I want an educated estimate on what the abor tax might be if it is determined to be taxable and you want to see a draft document that would convey the use whatever we're going to do y okay and the agreement with the county and the what the inter loal agreement with the county could sign yeah that too to make sure that I'll get that I don't it's just verbal and then again just clarify like if the property is redeveloped if it changes hand if the owner damages something that they're liable to repair and not us I think that was it yep okay all right thank you I appreciate it thank you very much Doug thank you okay moving on agenda item two discussion on an amendment to inter local agreement for dequ a fire rescue services with Jupiter Inlet Colony Jeremy all right thank you um so this agreement um I think the mayor Dan from jic uh a year or two ago came to me ask me for to amend this agreement um as the time the CPI was was was low and this was before Co then Co hit and CPI you know Rose pretty significantly so we did not have these conversations but the previous two agreements were renewed every 10 years and um that was that was the intent of having that conversation the time fast forward as CPI started to drop a little bit um Mr Kevin Lucas who was the I guess previous administrator uh contact me to to renew and and have a discussion about um amending the agreement um and and I guess we'll say change the terms a little bit um so what you have in front of you is uh the the current contract and the proposed contract um that we had discussed we is in me and Kevin at the time I have uh subsequently presented this to the jic council um Heidi seagull is their manager proposed it to her as well and so um in front of you guys you guys have the agreement I've also provided um some documentation on if they were with the county what that what that cost would be if they if they paid the same rate as our citizens what that would be um that's in uh I think the second the first backup I think the second page um and then I have both agreements in there as well so um just this is just the one slider that I put together just to maybe highlight it um so year one through five in the current contract was 400,000 there's no increase um so the the CPI is held the year 6 through 10 is 4% increase and then year 11 through 20 6% and the where this comes in where they they agreed originally was it to raise it to 6% in the hopes of that they would have that discussion in year 11 to 20 about amending and renewing it also allows for an 18-month uh notice terminate Clause from years 10 to 20 or 11 through 20 so similar terms that were proposed is year 1 through five would freeze it current rate which is 546 um with no increase in those first five years um years 6 through 10 it would be a 3% increase and 11 through 20 we'd be back to 6% hopefully having the discussion about amending and and updating that agreement again um and at that point they'd get the right to terminate again at that point so um with that I'm open to suggestions comments I mean um their Council was uh at that time very supportive there was a couple questions outstanding questions that um we were able to provide the information to them um and so um obviously I think the process if Council whatever you guys decide you know get back over to them and then and then they would vote on it first and then with their Vote or any uh recommendations it would come back to council for approval okay thank you Council I don't have any questions I don't have any questions I have one why is the change from the six to 10 years from four to three that was just something we talked about with between Kevin and I with the current CPI which was closer closer to this at 3% also to try to give them a little bit more um I guess a little bit more I guess leverage with amending it was the was was the case at the time so um there's no there's no science to it I mean it's more of a we were trying to you know I was trying to play good in the negotiations to to amend it okay um I will say we very much value our relationship with the colony um my only kind of reservation with that percentage drop is um we know that our residents cost in the next 6 to 10 years is going to be a lot more than a 3% increase and so and the level of service is the same so I just would maybe be in favor of keeping that at four let just wanted to throw that out there for a thought the level of service is the same how about number of calls and say level of service I know it's the same level of service we talk about our commitment but what are the the call volume versus what we're getting what we do we we usually I mean even when we're in you know discussions you don't really ever go by level of calls for for what you are paying like just generally is there any contracts that are by level of call no you you typically it's like Insurance you pay for insurance increases go up I haven't filed the claim of my insurance ever in the history but my costs go up every time and so you know and so what I think the mayor and I don't want to put words in your mouth is is that the level of service when they pick up the phone and they have an emercy they're going to get the same people same equipment and you know same level of service that if you pick up the phone and so I think and I'm assuming that's where you going with that I understood that I gu my question was just more out of curiosity than anything else like are we doing five calls a month 20 calls a month no it's like I think we had a report at one point within the last five years they had one year they had like 30 calls over there 20 something calls another year I mean so somewhere in between 10 and 30 calls a year I mean most of it's EMS you know calls I mean I don't think there we're not having fire calls over there but you know you you just got to be careful with that with that argument because you're paying for what they may do not what they do every day and so you know we we have men and women that you know there maybe a day they don't get a single call and the next day they got 10 or 10 calls and so you're just paying them for what the service that they're being prepared they're well you know educated and well trained so you know we don't want to go I haven't ever seen it done by you know a call volume yeah I wasn't suggest I was just more I guess it was more Curious than anything else that's it and I'm sorry mayor can you explain your comment about are it's going to cost our residents more than 3% in your six through 10 oh yeah I mean we know just with the um you know we renegotiate our contracts every three years and that's I mean we it's going to be more than 3% I mean I would assume right just based on what we're going through right now now so um again just want to throw out there it's a percent I just I didn't really understand the decrease was all just because like I said we know that our residents are going to be paying more than that over the next six to 10 and it's the same level of service but with our but are they really I mean I guess I'm struggl my question with that I'm not following that but if if it's a homesteaded property and it's it's it's it's the increase in the property amount is it capped at a certain save of our homes this isn't tied to that is it no but I'm saying but that's that's the only increase that would happen would be if their their if their taxes went up it would go up by isn't it 3% that we our our primary residences our tax increases are limited to 3% based on save our homes so that's not going to cost them more it's going to how we allocate our resources would change to meet what cuz we're still going to raise x amount of dollars in our property taxes yeah and their taxes are going to go up the same amount in theory 3% so I just want I was trying to follow the 4% versus 3% that's my because it's not cost how we allocate how we allocate will will will differ right there's some unknowns right now because we know on the November ballot there's going to be um a question to the citizens whether they want to tie isn't it to tie the um home said exemption percentage to the CPI that's right so that is out there we don't know if it's going to pass or not that we'll know this November so that percentage could fluctuate too but I mean you know what if we like we don't know what our military is always going to be at either so like I said we don't know down the road that you know what if our millage rate has to get raised one day and then our residents are paying more so I just like I said I mean it's not I just wanted to throw it out there I didn't really understand the percentage job um especially when they're already paying much less in our residents so okay yeah I mean I don't disagree I guess I'm also a little hesitant to throw a monkey wrench in the what's already been proposed um money's money um I was wondering the same thing when I was looking at it so the first year won't change we've got that budget that's what we presented to them you know if you change the year six you know go from 3% to 4% that's that's the only that would be the only difference in that it's so I don't know about a monkey wrench I mean unless they think that's a monkey range so well if uh we feel it and it's not like we're pulling that number out of in air that was the last rate you know if we feel that that'll get us anywhere closer to covering you know it's just covering our cost yeah we should go to 4% I agree I mean as far as covering our costs absolutely okay all right any public comment no all right so we'll just basically um yeah keep the percentages the same for years 6 to 10 and 11 and 20 but we're locking in 1 through five starting so that would start in 2025 October 1 basically okay at the 546,000 for 5 years that's right okay and then that will come to does it go to Jupiter and the colony first and then back to us because we'll have to formally vote on as well right that's what Mr DAV suggested sorry did you already say that no he has said it today he told me that in another conversation but yes that them it'll go to them first that okay okay great all right moving on the final agenda item number three uh discussion on National League of cities uh in uh collaboration with wm's recycle right pledge to take action in your city so I I came across this and um you know that um you know I caught my eye I knew our environmental advisory committee had previously kind of want to amped up you know amp up our recycling efforts um and education and I when I saw this I thought that it would be maybe a good way for us to help um kind of the initiative that they wanted to get off the ground and I know the deadline to take the pledge is September 10th which is before our council meeting and so Keith did say if there was full consensus that we didn't need a form vote and that Jeremy could apply to take the pledge um and so the um you know the point of this is to really enhance recycling efforts and kind of revitalize it because I think sometimes um you know Get Robotic and people kind of forget you know what you know this goes in this bin this goes in that bin and really what the impact of RA is of recycling so um by taking the pledge they're going to provide like monthly toolkits uh messaging that kind of stuff so it makes it easy for staff they're not you know inventing everything themselves and I was thinking they could even um you know maybe task EAC with some of the stuff and and staff could work with EAC uh since I know this was important for EAC so just want to bring that to council and see if anyone was interested I'm I'm okay support that I think it's great it doesn't sound like there's any I know there's a Time impact but no cost impact it's all just kind of they Prov and training I think it's awesome let's do it I think been a good partner they've done their part with their natural gas cars vehicles and all that it's great idea and I think it's really I mean I know it's in partnership with national league of cities and WM but it's the league of cities is more driving it correct or believe so yeah yeah it looks it would appear that way okay that's cool we will take the pledge and then you'll bring that I guess to EAC at their next meeting well I know their agenda was already issued actually so yeah I don't think any of this would tie into the any of their agenda items but he can at least give a he can give him a little thing I I did send him an email today that we were going to be considering it he might uh update them so we'll make sure he gets updated perfect okay any public comment no all right with that can I get a motion to adjourn so move all in favor hi sorry I'm used to being more people thank sh