you're no she coming right now okay the what's up are you on that I am yeah yeah you're still going to be stuck from like an aesthetic standpoint still be phone lines all over the place Jeremy just an FYI Diana does check the clicker every time too so yeah good evening everyone I'd like to call this meeting to order it is 6: PM July 29th 2024 and it is our Workshop meeting Lori can I get roll call Mayor here vice mayor Sartor here council member Brandon here council member painter here council member French thank you and the first item on the agenda tonight is FPL is here to present about the underground program they have going on into Questa right now Doug good evening May Village Council uh we are presenting tonight FP storm secure underground program we're fortunate enough to have our whole fpnl team back here to present uh they have a brief PowerPoint presentation now go through the the presentation talk about the program I didn't want to introduce Danny tur but Danny right here is The Village's uh representative and what an outstanding job that Danny does for the village no matter what we have going on whether we've got vegetation in the power lines down power lines you know storms incoming storms Transformer issues Danny has been a great asset to the Village Danny and I started talking about undergrounding about three years ago uh we were fortunate back in 2019 uh 2020 to get on a pilot program um where we underground about 122 residents in the Country Club Community and Danny at that time talked about this program that was coming out it's a different program it's a longer term program it's throughout the State of Florida um and we're fortunate to have F pel Identify some power quality issues here in taquesta and they're going to talk about that tonight and the opportunity that we have so Carlos is going to present Carlos m is going to present and then introduces team thanks yeah so thank you for having us uh my name is Carlos Nunes I'm the engineering lead for the ssup group within FPL that's form secure underground program and the other presenter today will be K Percy who's our customer Al next SL just kind of go through some of these so really the hardening initiative started with the transmission lines those are the ones on further left um those have all been hardened as of now um those are connecting our utility to other utilities and to generation plants the picture in the middle kind of shows the feeder lines that go through the main thoroughfares those are in the process of finishing hardening within the next couple years and really our group is responsible for that last picture The Last Mile uh of overhead line to the customer property um slide a few here so really um you know FPL took it at an issue with some of the vegetation caused outages from some of these large name storms uh specifically in this picture you can see the down power lines in every single picture from these uh vegetation cause outties and those are typically in the rear of homes uh so that's where our group kind of comes in and you know with our program trying to Heart underground these lines so why undergrounding them right uh these uh underground utilities perform 50% better day-to-day operations it speeds up restoration and reduces the outages and interruptions from these vegetation um so why this area specifically right FPL does not play any favorites we have a datadriven uh selection criteria and that's a main three three points for that selection is power line performance during name storms as you saw in that previous picture outages from power lines due to vegetation on just regular everyday and performance during day-to-day operations so just rain weather any other circumstance and here's a map of our construction project for your area so we break down the total feeder into bite-size construction pieces those are the highlighted regions just to make it easier for construction Crews to go in on the individual projects and if you notice this will be for the village of taquesta uh 622 houses and 4.73 miles of overhead line that we're going to be converting typical life cycle for this project is between two and three years uh this begins with a conceptual design this is our most efficient most effective design it's hand off to our Outreach team they go out they talk to customers get feedback uh acquire easements once we get all this feedback we come back and uh kind of hand off a finished finalized design over to our pering group and to our construction team to add it into their schedule um we do partner with Pike and Bowman Consulting these are the folks that are actually out there talking to the customers acquiring these e and to kind of go more in dep on that uh Kurt will talk about that good evening my name is KT Percy I'm the customer Outreach lead for the projects in this area um so this slide right here uh as Carlos mentioned our Outreach is um one of the beginning stages and and lasts really throughout the life cycle of the project um this is just some of the context that we have as we progress through the construction project um we try to reach out to cities and municipalities let them know what we're doing where we're working um just so that you have some sort of idea that we are in the area you know if if one of your customers one of our customers reaches out and says hey this I have this you know uh company reaching out to me asking me to sign this paper um so that you're aware and you know especially with all the scams that are going on in today's day and age that you know we just like to have full Vis full visibility um part of that visibility is we like to send out a customer letter that just says Hey we've identified this area you're going to be contacted in a short period of time um just let you know we're coming so it's not total uh totally blindsided and you um they have an idea that that we have chosen them and to maybe expect some sort of u customer aage um again we we we work with the HOAs um you know in uh you know HOA groups um city city council meetings as you can tell um once that letter goes out and notifies them um our customer Outreach team like Carlo said Bowman Consulting they'll start reaching out to the customers they'll start knocking on doors um let me step back they also prior to that they'll mail out a flyer that's uh an information packet has four or five pieces of collateral that explains what we're trying to do um uh what is an easement why do we need an easement what what does it look like on your property what is what we call a junction box adapter um some of those types of things just just to sort of um Prelude uh and maybe answer some of their questions before we even get there so they can maybe focus on other questions once our group gets there um during the process behind the scenes we're doing easement preparations um and then we will have to reach out to the customers um for easements uh that is part of the infrastructure of fpnl right now they're overhead on a poll as part of this program they'll be on the ground uh on personal property um it's not every house it's every four to six homes roughly uh gets an easement or would be asked for an easement uh and then throughout the life cycle if if needed we continue um Communications with HOA cities and municipalities okay so kind of what I just touched on what we ask for from the residents are either 10 X1 typically uh easements uh for the placement of a transformer on their personal property Andor a junction box box which allows us to convert the overhead service to the new Underground Service junction box is placed on the house it's approximately 9 in by 20 in a little bigger than a shoe box um that allows us to like I said make that conversion uh from municipalities we submit our permits um we we you know we get our locates um and we work with you guys uh for maybe any special request uh special use easements maybe um perhaps like a lift station something of that nature something on your property um like Carlos said this is part of the storm protection plan uh so all costs are recoverable to us and so there's no upfront cost to the customer um in their Outreach process these are the forms basically that they will our customer Outreach team Bowman Consulting will be uh asking on the customers on the left is the homeowner consent to the junction box it's really a consent SL acknowledgement that just says Hey we've had the conversation you're aware that we do need this required piece of equipment uh to make that conversion and then on the right is the easement form and that easement form would come with a second page exhibit which would show the location of the Transformer on their property and the dimensions of the Transformer like I say typically they're 10 x 10 but if there's a rare occasion maybe we need a a 10 x 15 or 10 x 20 something to to maybe get around an obstacle um you know whatever it may be this is sort of a before and after depiction here so on the left you have pretty much what a what a common area looks like right now common overhead area looks like right now uh you have the Transformer on the pole you have the overhead lines running rear of inaccessible um and then the Service drop runs from the Transformer to the uh weather head on the roof or you know attached to the Eve um and then to the meter on the right you have the post construction depiction so as you can tell the um the overhead facilities uh the inaccessible overhead facilities have been removed the overhead Service drop Transformer has been removed the primary uh excuse me the primary cables will be run in the uh public owned right of way and then the Transformers will be placed on the individual's property which is uh which was where the easement comes into play uh from the Transformer to the house we go into the junction box and then from the junction box we go into the meter can now that that picture shows it you know a little bit farther away it all depends on what's on the side of the house as to where we can place that box we try to get as close to the meter can as possible but if there's communication box there or something maybe we have to make an adjustment um also on this just just as an FYI as part of our program since in this picture here there are joint use communication lines on there those poles will not be uh being removed um because they're still needed for the other facility uh excuse me utility okay so our Outreach team will be identifiable by uh probably first and foremost the FPL approv contractor vest uh they'll also be given uh an FPL contractor badge which will should be visible um and U nfpl shirt like this it says storm secure Underground on the sleeve um hats we give them hats hats they're optional but definitely the vest and ID are probably the most uh prol ific uh forms of identification again we don't ask for money you know so if a customer calls you says they're asking for money it's it's not us um we do also give them an iPad um that's not an FPL issue uh you know identif identifi the trait but it does allow them to use our augmentative reality uh technology which allows them to while they're in the field with the customer take a picture of their property place the Transformer on their property to give them a rough idea of what it will look like um you know if they agreed to the Transformer and what the Transformer would look like on their property um so uh what's this one we deleted this one so this one goes in three phases the underground installation um and then as that's going on you know the overhead Make Ready which is the the starting point the uh you know the feeder pole is where you know we start and come down just to begin the at the underground Loop and then the overhead removal uh once the overhead and what's not on this uh slide is once the overhead removal is done then we go back and do customer property Restorations um we don't do them as we go we do them at the end as one um sort of less uh last step sweep unless it's a dangerous situation a hole or something like that then we we fix those as needed but if it's just you know a few pieces of side or a plant we go back and and fix that at the end of the project which would be after the overhead removal stage um so this is just a picture kind of showing how the um how the underground goes um so you can see on the left um that's a uh what they call boore rig um so we use a minimally invasive uh underground horizontally um board um method to reach the meter can um they will occasionally have to date what we call a small pothole just to track the path of the board um rig um and then on the right is an actual photo of of what it looks like in the field okay so during the uh project and part of the underground process um because the overhead rearo facilities will be removed we will no longer be supporting the rear of outdoor lights these are typically the outdoor lights that a customer may call FPL and say hey it's a little dark in my backyard I'd like to put up a light back there uh those will be going away as part of this program the street lights on the other hand which are out on the roads lighting up the municipality areas those are stay right so we will find a way to feed them whether they remain overhead or from an underground feed street lights will stay um customer requested outdoor lights in the rear R properties will be going away um so this is just kind of I touched on it before restoration so you can see on the left um those Stakes are marking the Transformer the easement location Transformers are you can tell from the pictures you know typically they're I think they're 30 by 40 by 26 tall the pad is 48x 55 the easement is 10 x 10 so it gives you an idea but what this shows is prior to construction and then the after photo once the Transformer is placed and restoration's been done this is what we expected the property look like before and after uh the right side is sort of during construction uh you got the pothole there um we fill that in we reside and then the bottom picture bottom right is the post construction uh conditions when we're done and this is our Outreach Team Jacob bener he's in the back he's our project manager he oversees the whole um you know every aspect of the project Carlos who just met is our engineering lead myself I'm the customer Outreach lead and then which Walker is our production lead who oversees construction if you have any questions there are online options uh for the customers um these are three fpl.com ssup um that that will answer a lot of questions um and that's it and then um I guess we'll take time for any questions from the group thank you mayor uh for the record Al CER external Affairs manager with fpr just add a couple things to their presentation um since we've got some questions before on these type of issues the selection process we get a lot of questions about how do we pick which laterals as you kind of saw on the slide it's a Public Service Commission approved criteria list that he just presented so we don't get to choose necessarily based on exactly what we want we look at the data every year and that selection process is also reviewed by the Public Service Commission um so that to they confirm that we're meeting the criteria that they approved um secondly you talked about the uh when we're done kind of removing our overhead the telecommunication lines may still be there depending on the route um we do try to communicate that to the telecommunications companies um that we've completed our overhead removal so that they are know that they're the only ones on the lines we obviously don't operate their companies and tell them that they have to underground it so that's up to them to you know follow their processes to underground their facilities as they do appropriate but we do try to maintain Communications between our utility and their utilities when we've completed our work and also what laterals we're planning to to go in and do so just want to add those couple bits of information because we've had those questions come up uh at other meetings so but obviously we we're happy to take any questions you have thank you right Council open up yeah thank you for coming in bringing your whole team I just have two questions um so so are there any outages at all during this and if so how long during the construction process so there are um documented reduced outages um was this Ian uh on the west coast um I don't think we have any outages no I mean during the uh construction oh I'm sorry during construction yeah I'm Sorry Miss I misst yeah so only during the conversion process itself so uh when we get to the um it goes in stages so they'll they'll bore the pipe they'll push the wire they set the Transformer and then they do the conversions they make it hot right they energize the line then they make the conversions so they do typically let's just say six Homes at a time so they'll do it in blocks okay so it could be a 3 to four hour outage okay um but that's that's typ that's really the only outage the customer will experience and we do notify them uh 24 to 48 hours in advance uh we leave a door hanger uh that says hey you know we'll be working on your home at this time okay but since I guess you brought up another point that I had even thought of out post once you're underground what are the statistics on outages from storms and everything I know it's it's definitely better but what what would we expect to see uh I believe uh during the storm as you can see from previous slides you know they're performing better just day to day 50% better during name storms I mean it's been great in the past uh few storms Ian I know are underground performs six times better than head and then during the cold it per 12 times okay so some statistics on that okay and then my last question is so the Transformer uh you said every four to six houses roughly gets one um what what do you what happens if you have a homeowner that's just like absolutely not I mean you just kind of go to the next one and hope for a better situation or yeah sort of right um we do go back to the drawing board um you know we bring it back to the design team we do uh our customer Outreach team will reach out to each and every customer um the Transformer is a necessary evil uh we do need somebody to participate and accept that Transformer um we do our diligence uh do diligence to to work with the customer um you know we don't we can't force them it's their property that's still their property um so we do search for other options um but it's got to go somewhere so yeah you know I mean if it's just a total I mean you know worst case scenario if it's we can't absolutely can't find something you know we have to put that project on hold yeah but that's not very often have we had to do that okay that's all I have thank you um first question and this came from resents because um there was a question about in a few spots on your map with different color areas there's a couple properties that are on white but they're in the middle of colored section why is that so there's one on the Far West and then there's one right off the bridge and then one little bit South on Riverside so depending on where they are on the map they're either on a different feeder and again it goes back to our feeder selection criteria or they're physically fed from the Fe in which case they already have the most reli form of power they can get as the main Feer line so that goes out we have other issues um so they they do not need to be under ground everyone else would be on the the rear old lines those would be the ones going under interesting okay um secondly with your Outreach that you've done so far with the letters the properties that I'm assuming you were hoping to put like a junction box or the meter adapter thing would they get in their folder a specific letter already for that they wouldn't get a letter but they would get a piece of collateral showing what it is and explaining the need for it okay so I guess my question is do does every resident get the same folder with information or they kind of selected already no everyone gets it everybody gets the same uh the same packages okay um with the same information and then um because we like to the first question we don't know where that Transformer will land we have an idea where we'd like it to land but that customer may not want it okay that's kind of where I was getting that's why we have we have to you know approach it like sort of as a clean slate and everybody's an option so everybody gets the same information okay and this is nothing on you but the last time our West we had that pilot program on the west side of taquesta got to go through it um their communication team their approach in the beginning was not so great and then residents started to find out about the program and we rallied to do a community meeting with it was just your team as fpnl and residents it wasn't a formal council meeting and it we had a such a successful attendance in that not only from the residents that were on your map but residents surrounding that so I would really really advise you to maybe try doing that again because I emailed as a resident the email that was on the letter on June 15th I haven't heard a single word back I've called the number twice and left the number and I haven't heard back I hear things from Doug because I'm part of the village but that's very unfortunate because the envelope that it came in kind kind of looks like junk mail so we did kind of alert like I almost didn't open it and that's when we started texting each other and we're like wait oh my gosh it's underground yeah the envelope should have FPL on there yeah but you guys kind of send that too for that $3,000 a year thing you're always trying to sell us on so I'm just giving you some advice someone who almost threw it away as well um don't give up hope if you're not hear anything back just try to reach out to the HOAs and try to put on like a community meeting that's not a formal government meeting because I guarantee you the residents will come with questions and then it'll help you guys in one spot like one night answer all those questions about the logistics the timing how long it would take much like um he was asking like do I lose power for a whole day or two days it was just so successful last time that we did this I just want to see that happen again because I think it was easier for your team as well because again it was like one shot let's get it all on the table and knock it out yeah that is the benefit of of that so I just want to tell you don't lose hope if you haven't heard anything um a lot of people weren't here and then a lot of times people kind of Overlook that letter too so just don't lose up I appreciate that just as a followup too Lori uh their consultant Bowman got a little bit of head and contacted the residents before we made this presentation so we asked them to stop okay so we could get the information out to all the residents okay because we didn't have the map so a lot of us were just looking for where is that line going to stop um because some of the residents we were texting didn't get it some of us got it so we were trying to figure it out so that map is very helpful I appreciate that because this will help us too as council members help our residents inform them and who's who you guys are looking at and who you're not so I appreciate it just and just to put things in perspective as well when when you guys did the pilot program for us in the country club we had 122 homes that went underground and there was only one resident during that time frame that didn't want the Transformer and we had another Resident said I'll gladly put it on my property so but that was such a great meeting CU so many of them came out yeah it may may yes um thank you for the presentation the information tonight heon how are you um what is the anticipated for this phase what is the anticipated construction time once you start this whole the whole project from start to finish yeah what the these shaded areas yeah I mean it depends typically it's a two to three okay um that's what we shoot for and then after those that phase is done is you continue intoa or is it based on your data I it's still based on the data but this specific program right we're in the Outreach stage construction will then be two to three years right after all that we'll go back to then it's based on data it's not a it's not round two for toest it's based on the data okay um and I have a transformer in my backyard on my poll I don't know how often you you repeat that but are the is the the preferred location one of the four houses that are fed from that four that pole it will differ just based on area they don't match one to one so there's so when you put in the the the the the Transformer and you have the directional drilling to the house to the junction box how do you feed the other houses from that same Transformer so you'll drill yeah that box you'll drill the opposite way right out to the right way down the right way and then into it all be connected from the front so it'll always be okay and we get more homes out of a pad Mount Transformer on the ground than we can out of an area that's why there's they don't match up one for one do you offer any um incentives when I say incentives like do you landscape around that or you just put the Box in and you leave we can it's not preferred it's yes it's not standard but you know it's it's not a make or break for us if that's what we need to do to complete the project we're not going to walk at a few ples okay that's all I have thank you um another presentation I think you had 4.7 miles you how many how many miles are would be projected going forward based on the data maybe you don't know would be would we have to still underground well what our intents for the groups to through the entire so realistically all the is over 30,000 mil and we're going pce by pie this is one project within the east region we have few other ones that are happening all at the same time but yeah the end goal is to get everywhere how many miles are left into Quest though after I know we have the pilot project some areas are undergrounded this is another 4.7 do we know how many miles are left know that yeah back and then do you have any any idea yet how many polls with with this project how many poles would be remaining right now due to Communications or other facilities attached to them do you not know yet would you be ident you'd be identifying that once the Design's complete though yeah once the finalized design we know how many and then the Transformer you know issue got brought up that some people some people won't care some people are like I don't want that in my front yard um do your Transformers have to meet any kind of flood elevation because I know FEMA is coming out with new maps soon as well which you know if they have to get raised it becomes even more unsightly I mean do you have any insight into that yeah so they're on right now they're on a six if they are part of the theme of blood plane that is part of the customer portion that's the customer P you ar your are and then they ask does it flood in this area they get kind of like a customer perspective the historical data if they say yes we do offer them a higher pad um we can't force that on them but it is offered to them right and we offer that you know really in the name of reliability right because we understand that so you know we're trying to yeah they're a little higher but it also improves the reliability gets it a little bit higher up out of you know out of the water U area right flood zone so not to it's not you know to just be cosmetically worse it's it's it's for a reason uh and it's to improve the the reliability of the system right okay and so you're you're not doing that based off like the F flood maps you just historically it is okay and then um uh council member Brandon kind of brought this up with um good contacts reach out to you I mean is that email that's at I think is the second flashlight is that the email that Council should give out to Residents should anyone reach out or will you guys have a better contact list for us to uh send to residents at inquire that is the so it's just that one okay and then you brought up the scammers you know if they don't have a vest a badge I mean has scamming been a big problem that you guys have seen when you're doing projects and if so is I something that we should send out messaging on to our community so they are aware yeah I wouldn't say it has been a big problem um I can say that um you know there was um there was a sort of a increase down in our Lauderdale area um so I I wouldn't Sound the Alarm just yet but it's just an awareness um real quick I mean I think in general whether it's the SS program or other types of programs that FPL offers we across the state we've seen instances I wouldn't say it's massive but we have seen instances where people will try to impersonate FPL employees or contractors um to say that they need to enter the home to do something with FPL um there are a few programs where FPL would enter someone's home to say evaluate Energy Efficiency uh audits or stuff like that but generally we will not do that uh and correct me fromo with this program we would never need to enter a resident so it's more the kind of things that we want to make sure that people are aware that they're welcome to contact whether it's local law enforcement whether it's reach out to us to verify that the person that is at their door is an FPL employee there's nothing wrong with verifying that we want to make sure that you know what our contractors will look like what they're at and they should have again their badge visible um with the contact number to contact but of course like anything if somebody feels like they are unsafe or there's a certain situation they should follow any you know contact local law enforcement or whatever they feel they need to do to make sure that they're safely getting the information they need before they provide access to their property okay do you does FPL have any messaging stating as such or if the village you know Council decides maybe we should put out some kind of awareness messaging that we should craft it ourselves because from what I gather um I I have heard that you know even you know initially I think when Bowman got ahead of themselves like people were calling is this real is like what's going going on so like that already happened I think to be proactive and just you know make residents aware um not to you know not to scare anyone but just be like hey this is happening and these are the signs that it is a you know a valid FPL employee and these are the signs that it's not well I think one um to council member Brandon's comment I'm going to go back and check with our team at why maybe that email address is not getting to the right Personnel or figure out what's going on there um because that should be the appropriate first Contact is that phone number or email address so that we can respond that it is you know our Personnel or we get the answers to the questions that they have um but alternatively I'll go back to our uh Power delivery teams and corporate security to see if there's a the most up-to-date messaging that we can provide the villag okay that would be helpful because if it gets to the point they have the email I mean that's not going to help in the situation or giving them heads up you know ahead of time so that's appreciated and the other option is obviously we would you know if we can work with your police chief or we can provide them with that information as well so that your officers know if somebody reaches out to them um what to to look for in terms of um you know our contractors that are out there okay that'd be great thank you okay Council any other yep two more questions um on the um the junction box does every home get a junction box or is just the that the partial that has the Transformer no it depends that's more just toate transfer but not all of them will require how is that determined cuz you'll so you have a junction box you'll have your typical your your standard meter it depends on some meters can accept it straight off the bat so it can come the ground straighty that's just toate that is there a way to change out that meter so instead of having a junction box an aeter that meter would be requ to change based like contacting electricians okay and of you're already under you know how much in my last question how much um access or how often do you have to go back to the Transformer because if somebody does because there's going to be a question of landscaping if I'm going to give this up you know what kind of landscaping could I put around it can I do it on all four sides so I is it going to be torn out once a year because somebody has to get access I mean it won't I can imagine just a bunch of cloo or some type of flowers going in but how much historically or on average how much how often do you have to take the top off and look at it performance is better and the switching of it isain so okay they do have to is in the front of properties it's not in the back you know where typically like the middle the night had to contact customer backyard 2 a.m. okay thanks and that that was actually I was going to add that to and it actually goes to council member painter's question early about you know some of the benefits is that you're moving it from the back of the front so hopefully we don't have to go service that Transformer that often but usually by Murphy's Law it's usually going to be at 2:30 in the morning when everybody's asleep and now the crews can roll up you know if there's vegetation around it then they may have that may cause a longer delay getting access to the Transformers so the reason I the Cur was going to say we prefer or not to is we like a clean area for them to be able to come in work open the Transformer have a clean safe environment to do the work they need and get out the more vegetation that's around it that could you know complicate the work efforts or delay restoration efforts so and your experience with this uh the other utilities AT&T Bell South that are still on the pole have they gone and come in afterward or have they done it with you in the past or I would love to answer that but I don't like to speak for other utilities so I I I'll say the reason we answer that is that we try our best to work you know collaboratively with them communicate to them when we're going to be going into certain areas but obviously we can't speak for when that their timelines are they your polls that they share so correct I think once we go in and remove our polls and only the communications on your left the ownership is transferred to the DEL Communication company so once our stuff is off it's now their property so once they remove their lines they can remove the polls as well okay all right thanks Jan thank you any other Council comments or questions um just really quick as mayor was talking about the door to door thing do you guys have an idea of when you want to start that like in the next week two weeks three weeks right now okay I was just curious but again I yeah in addition to that I I highly advise that community meeting as well that's all what did we do the last one uh we threw it together last minute because again nothing on you guys but the previous group that was organizing it they were going to move on because they didn't hear back and everyone freaked out so we did it at the church um again it was like a last minute thing but obviously we have a rec center and we have a church that would probably host it and you could do it close to different neighborhoods that you guys heavily don't that mat so because not a lot of people want to drive too far not that that's far but we all know how it is getting people that Village home just go back just to the vegetation um so we have a standard it's 3 ft around the back and sides and nothing in the front so nothing in the front so that we can get to you so we can open it and switch it safely and like El said you know with less okay so it'll be visible from the street okay right okay laori is there any comment cards not for this item no any public comment yes ma'am can you come up to the podium and state your name and address please no problem my name is bridet Anne foran I've been here since 95 so I'm ecstatic that this is happening been waiting for years um so the poll's going to be staying in the backyard ma'am can you address your comments and may take not might answer question uh so the poll's going to stay in the backyard and that gives the fpnl the easement to come back if anything needs to be fixed in the backyard is that correct the polls if there's no Communications on them the polls will go away okay or any other facilities on them okay and so the reason why I'm here is I need a I have to get a new roof um so when when will this go in effect I think I don't know if maybe Elon or of the FPL team would you guys want to maybe address some of her questions outside because I I want to get all your questions answer but it's probably not the right spot to do on the diet nor can I answer all your questions either so that's why I was asking yeah but yeah you guys could could go um chat out there and answer all the questions because my wire goes along our you know the pole goes along and we have polls and then I'm connected to the town when the flood goes or electricity goes out so that was the reason why I was asking when does this go in effect I'm more than ecstatic about it but didn't want to put a new roof on and then they have to do something to the electrical and that's why I'm here to make sure that we're on the same page that's all yep that's a great Point another good reason why to have a commity Outreach meeting and I'm sure the FPL team will be happy to address all your comments right now okay okay thank you so much you I just wanted to add too public works department along with the clerk's office will be following up the residents putting information out on social media as we coordinate move forward with fpnl as well okay yeah great any other public comment okay with that I'll move on to agenda item two the EAC uh activity update uh good evening mayor and council members um for the record this this is uh Tom Bradford speaking I'm substituting for uh the new chairman is uh Brad free and he had a a conflict with tonight's workshop and so they asked me to come and to write the memo and to give the report so that's why I'm here um so I'll skip all of the introductory stuff in the uh in the memo that I that you each of you have and cut to the chase to save time um so you know that the AC has been working now since the summer of uh 2019 and um so we've been trying to improve the local environment by making numerous recommendations to the Village Council and the staff over that time frame um uh so as part of this I'm asked to tell you what I think are the most substantive things that have happened in the time period in question and I want you to understand number one one that's subjective and that two that I uh was not directly involved with the EAC for about 4 and a half months as I was sitting with you at that time so if I left something out that was important then it's my fault and I apologize to anybody that may be listening or watching but in my opinion the the three most important things that we did during this timeline uh which is the 2023-2024 timeline to date uh we completed the uh Village of dequest a comprehensive plan elements review and there relative to environmental issues and submitted a full report to the Village Council honor about June 19th of uh 20123 and the report was 252 pages in length too big to put with your email but if you need it and want to look at it uh you can let me or the staff know because most of them have it um we made a number two is we made assignments to the EAC for tackling the issue of reducing greenhouse gases I don't know if any of you remember or know about this The Village hired uh or paid a fee to join an organization that did uh an analysis of both the community as a whole in terms of how much greenhouse gas it uh generates and then for the municipal Corporation Village of Desta like where we are right now how much do they generate including the water department the San uh not sanitary sewer the uh uh storm drain system anything that generates energy use was included in that for the the village and uh so we uh we have been working on that and uh some of the items there was you know increased recycling uh looking for Le lead certifications for incentives to have people build lead uh uh housing units and so forth but that work continues right now because it's a big long list and uh we have t ticked off some of those items but others still remain to be uh looked into further such as lead and I can explain if you are curious about it um and then we made assignments relative to Ultimate uh development of a uh Communications plan and and also a pamphlet that would go with that that we could look to for staying on track um and we have more work to do with that U Jill winter is working on that for the the committee and um but we are pleased and I'll uh tip my hat to uh both Jeremy and Lori and their team they have been doing environmental information uh in their communication platforms on their own initiative when there's been times we have nothing they've picked up the ball and ran with it and so we're happy that that's happening uh periodically and then the other thing just to mention is uh you know they we continue to learn about different environmental issues or problems that are H can happen or have happened in our region and to give you one example the uh one of them pertains to the longterm health of the lockah hatchee river we noted that the south Florida Water Management District is beginning steps to implement diversion of water from Lake okobi to the lock hatchee slooh and uh the problem with that which although it's freshwater it is highly polluted freshwat but meanwhile the lockah hatchee what are they called the lock hatche River coordinating Council I think that's right of which to Quest is a member was formed by the state of Florida FD to work with all the the local governments in the River basin for the locki river to find ways to reduce nitrogen and phosphate uh loads in the river so it seems a bit counterproductive for one to be adding nitron nitrogen and phosphate through the waters of the lake Oobi and yet another or organization of the state is looking for ways and means to reduce it so we want to look into that we've made contact uh with s South FL Water Management District and FD and we're uh I believe Jay's working or has set up times when they will come and make presentations to EAC that will allow us to dig deeper um and then lastly the thing that I have here in the last long paragraph is the EAC requested I bring the following to your attention it's not part of the uh the update it's just something that came up at our last meeting um so I'm going to have to read it to make sure it's the EAC recently became aware that The Village's ongoing vulnerability assessment work to date has revealed that some infrastructure owned by the locket River environmental control district is at risk uh due to rising sea levels over time um that's not a big surprise but what we're worried about is that um the mitigation of the problem enta might entail increasing the height of electrical equipment and maybe even mechanical equipment modifications we know probably you all do too that the the River District has an array of portable generators to keep lift stations functional in long-term uh power outages like you know like a hurricane um however that's all predicated on being able to get the portable generator to the lift station and on the assumption that the air is not flooded so that the electrical equipment has not been damaged and so um what we're suggesting you do well first of all let me clarify this I don't know we don't know if the River District knows about the state's vulnerability Assessment program and if so or not we don't know if they even if they know about it or if they're eligible um but if they are and they're not are eligible and aren't doing anything about it they're letting a big opportunity slip through their fingers because of the the third or the second part of the program as Jeremy and others know is the state when you identify these problems due to rising sea uh levels the state will pay 50% of the cost to fix it to rise and do whatever you have to do um so what we've suggested is that U this was identified and I know Margie knows about it um that perhaps before you do anything just make sure what I'm saying is accurate and to get with Margie and or that consultant and verify where those lift stations that are potentially vulnerable are and then one uh right let either through Jeremy to the executive director or the mayor or to the chair of their board or both inform them about the vulnerability assessment findings um number two is inform them of the state's vulnerability Assessment program and then encourage them to take advantage of it if they're eligible and they haven't done so already and um and let them know you know if those problems are real real and could be real you get the cost share with the state 5050 it's just to give them a heads up and let them know that you know that they may have a problem and we'd like to have it fixed because we you know I'm sure you all can put two and two together right when the when the sanitary lift station doesn't work and people continue to flush it's going to back up into homes and businesses and nobody wants that so we're asking you to just look into it and do and feel free to uh uh do whatever you think would be necessary in this regard and that's the end of my report thank you any questions Council no questions Tom but but thank you to you know you to number one you're willingness to go back and join in and for stepping up and just please pass along the thanks to the EAC um and great catch on the Loach River issue on the vulnerability stuff so thank you very much a lot of work I know that you've SP had a lot of that 250 page report so thank you okay well thank you very much thank you Tom ah I have questions get back up here uh a couple minor things the well I kind of brought it up at the uh FPL presentation so FEMA is updating their maps and I know there's a public meeting in Jupiter in September and sometimes know that will dictate the elevation the height elevation that certain equipment has to be installed at which is usually then written into the you know municipalities code um so I don't know if it might be worth waiting to see those flood maps in September before we reach out to them in regards to you know them installing their um equipment higher because the flood maps might to it's up to you I mean you know it's not imminent I mean uh but it's a it's probably a mid to long-term issue that those uh sanitary lift stations would be problematic um but I would venture to say mayor that if there are changes to the flood map those will not be good changes they are probably going to be for the worst meaning more people are going to be more subjected to being in a flood zone and all of the problems that go with that but right which then affects the building code and raises you know slab elevations equipment uh you know height elevations so I mean I've had to install equipment in for lale that literally you have to climb a ladder and they have railing around the pad to get to it because it had to be installed that high for code so Lighthouse so you're saying that's in September yeah okay so it doesn't you know if you want to wait till then and see what that outcome is that that's fine well this is not something that's unless the only cavey out there would be when does the clock stop ticking for the vulnerability Assessment program where the state will let others come in the door to make use of it I I have no idea okay and then this is maybe more a question for Jeremy the lockah hatche river coordinating Council I think originally like a it was on our list you know after the reor everything we have a list of all the different meetings and organizations I think originally council member attended but then we kind of decided the utilities director was the best and I know so margerie I don't know if you've been to any do you have anything to add maybe to what Mr Bradford's talking about or Council would you like to hear if Mar do okay hi this is Marjorie Craig utilities director um I have been to the locky hatchee River Management Coordinating Committee and the lock hatche River preservation initiative meetings since I've been here and um we haven't had a specific presentation yet um ours is still in in progress um I'm pretty sure that aubre Dr Arrington knows about him but I was actually texting him just to make sure so I'll definitely be reaching out just to verify and be willing to share I also have the Cy's um presentation on their vulnerability assessment as well okay so so maybe going forward with um and like I said with the the flood maps coming out if that affects anything um anything the EAC is kind of focusing on that might be good for some coordination any anytime that that's a great great idea mayor and Tomo behind you sorry as you know I'm having a little trouble turning lately so um so yeah great catch and we'll I'll make sure that happens okay thank you and then Mr Brad for have one more question yes two more actually the um the Green Building initiatives what can you explain where that's at because I know it was originally on our commercial Quarter Master Plan but we kind of council at the time wanted to pull that out and and maybe you know have the AC kind of you know uh do some more research and if we did want to do any you know Green Building incentives kind of treat that separate but then I saw kind of more from the lead for cities which I think was a little different from the original tent so can you kind of give us an update on where that's at right now with the EAC yeah yes so we broke it into two pieces one was uh what aspects of lead would pertain to and or be of value to the to Quest of Municipal Corporation and then the second piece was to come up with incentives into questa's codes that might encourage people to do lead structures uh Michelle uh is it Shas she has already done u u an analysis and a memo that she sent to the board and she discussed at the meeting that um after having uh received a presentation from the Jupiter Inlet they have a consultant they hire H to help them become a lead certified Community it cost $50,000 and all that that did for them was really just make them feel prestigious or something it doesn't really amount to anything and so that one the the EAC has come to the conclusion that route is nothing that we would want to recommend to you guys the second thing is the next thing that we're now going to dive into is what kind of incentives could we recommend to you to put in the code of ordinances that might underly might be uh able to attract or Merit people undertaking lead uh requirements and that's going to start here soon in that second piece yes yep and um just to add on to that so um we met with Michelle shuss who's kind of the lead liaison from the EAC and we're going to do a staff presentation either the next EAC meeting in August or September where we're going to give kind of a comprehensive look at what other municipalities do to provide incentives um you know we kind of have a a tough position where you know we're not a huge City where it takes forever to get permitting done you know we're we're pretty quick so that's one of the big incentives that people typically offer is like expedited permitting we're already pretty quick um but I think there's a few a few things that we could probably do um and and share with you guys some opportunities so we're going to be moving that forward with them and then hopefully have you know an opportunity make maybe Workshop it with you in the fall great last one you had last one yes um how many do uh Lori Jeremy how many applicants have we had for the current one applicant so I don't know how the EAC originally decided to um have a start time of 2 p.m. but do you it has crossed my mind that it could be possible we might be missing out on good applicants cuz if they work it's in the middle of the day it might be difficult for them to attend so and this would be a question for Council too would maybe pushing the time a little later um help maybe get some more applicants that are you know could be very qualified but couldn't do it otherwise at a 2 o' or would that be a a because I don't want to affect the current EAC if 2m works best for but it's been 2 p.m from the start I believe so I just kind of I don't know I just wanted to know how not not the first go we voted on it eventually but you want to know how we got there and why well yeah and just throw it out is it something do we want to consider changing to maybe you know if we're missing out on some applicants because they can't if they're working they can't come to a 2 o'clock meeting in the middle of the week well at that point in time Lori can correct me if I'm wrong I think most of us were in fact able to make it during the daytime but there was another important issue and that was that the having someone to do the minutes for the meeting is ideal between I don't know 8:30 and 5:00 P PM am. yeah and so that's an issue or someone would have to come back if we did it or maybe we could do it at 5:00 I don't know that kind of like four o' would even help I don't know just throwing it out there there was no real Rhyme or re I think part of it for the last time they switched it the majority of the EAC members were okay with 2:00 there was one who that was tough for um but that person was in and out anyways because of their job and yes it came down as Staffing having a clerk or someone from the clerk's office to sit here for no offense but your guys meetings are like 3 hours long um to take minutes for quite a long time and then but I agree but I don't know sometimes with a group it's hard to find that magic time but it means 2:00 is an odd time which is kind of why you know we had stopped I used to zoom into it because I was in Carline half the time so but that's again I totally get it's up to whoever's on that board you can man I I assume a council can mandate has got to be at such and such a Time luckily right now you guys have a group of people that have flexible jobs for the most part or they're retired but I mean it could pull in more interested candidates if it was maybe in the morning because then they can make arrangements I've known teachers even who sit on boards and as long as they know the date they can you know go ahead and schedule a sub a lot of times if you just have things either here or here and maybe not so much in the middle but again I know it works for you guys currently for me personally I can totally understand it Shine away many other candidates maybe it doesn't affect me at all I'm retired so maybe um and I would defer to to Jeremy too if it is a staff issue if the time switch but maybe maybe bring that back to EAC yeah be happy to do that that see what they say as a group um and you say we only have one applicant is that what okay I I can get ahead you know get a flavor of how they feel let you all know it's worth asking yeah okay all right all right Council me com question I'll L any cards no any public comment all right thank you Mr Bradford thank you for all that EAC does all right moving on agenda item three discussion on our commercial zoning overlay districts for development incen yes good evening Jay hup community development director as you recall we discussed this at the July 1st Workshop um we really focus there on um incentives and formula businesses I think we kind of got to a good point on the formula businesses but you wanted to continue talking about incentives so I've got a little bit more information in this presentation for you I've broken up into three parts one of them is just the concept development of incentives the other one is Building height and the other one is density so um because it's kind of a long presentation I think it might be best if if you guys we open up discussion after each each uh topic that way you you don't forget something I talked about and it's you know it's such a long presentation it's probably easi to do it that way okay uh so the first one is in the village master plan so there were several key recommendations in the village master plan that related to Land Development regulations most of them have been put into the code a few of them have not so I just wanted to highlight the things that have not been put in the code one of them is the concept of measuring Building height in stories um it's not in the code um the concept of development incentives has not been put in the code and then there's a kind of a small section on uh environmental friendly regulations Dark Skies fixtures that that also weren't put in into the code um so here's what the the master plan said about development incentives um you know it said there's a lot of different types of incentives you can do one of them is even having administrative approval with no public hearings from projects knowing how how active this community is that's you know we know that's not going to happen here some places do it not going to happen here not worth Merit um the other one is um you know building Heights are in uh increasing density it says that there's little to no interest in that but that if the village should reconsider regardless of what's offered it should be recommended the effected areas be limited and precise uh I.E the Town Center District and the Town Center District is actually the village Center overlay um it was just called something different in the master plan so it says that it's okay to make it limited and precise into a very specific area not all-encompassing throughout the Village um and it also says there should be a clear and transparent process which specifically articulates incentives offered and public benefits gained if you recall um some of the incentive ideas that were mentioned the last meeting you know were were through the waiver process where public benefits would have to be provided to even be able to get those incentives um one of the key recommendations right here that we haven't discussed is to consider appropriate development incentives for the Town Center and Main Street so again Town Center is um The Village Center overlay um and that was supposed to be done within a year of adoption um you know and we really haven't implemented any but I guess tonight is us considering development incentives for the Town Center um one of the big Concepts in the master plan is creating Civic open space so there were four key uh Civic open space uh uh identified within the village so one of them is um is not working well doesn't work up there where is it it doesn't work up there okay uh so one of them you see is is the One Main Street property or Paradise Park the other one is the the corner of test to drive and um Old Dixie you know where that the concept of doing like a a park where you would um you park your car and kind of bike along the corridor was was another one that was mentioned and then the other two on the right side there are it's Constitution Park and Village Hall where of course we already have um public space and then this is another um area on the the regulating plan there were so that's kind of the um northern part of the our commercial corridors there were no um priority Civic open space opportunities that were there so that's that's really like the Public's property um kind of up to County Line Plaza and the Old Dixie Corridor um one thing I think it's really worth pointing out too is you know I I really dug back into the master plan to to kind of look at this stuff and um when we looked at the Civic or the citizen master plan design charettes there were six tables all six tables really focused heavily on creating Civic open space at the One Main Street property um and a few of them um really only focused on their design mostly at at that property so there's uh one and two um there's three and four and you see I mean table three really didn't focus on anything other than than one Main Street um again quite a bit of Civic open space shown in both of those um table five same thing Table Six same thing um you know all a substantial amount of Civic open space so in our current zoning code um you know as you know 30% of a development has to be set aside for open space but this is usually met through landscape buffers building Foundation plantings and parking Islands they're kind of passive things that are there they're they're green you know but they're not really providing you know any kind of activation of of the Village um the ma master plan recommended to um create open space requirements that are more clearly defined as Civic open space in the form of parks screens and public squares so rather than just create landscape buffers or building Foundation plannings the the master plan really wanted to create special special places and our draft code it requires uh only 5% of a development to be set aside for civic open space so so 5% of that 30% um has to be Civic open space the other 25% can be you know the landscape offers building Foundation plantings parking Islands um just for comparison in a development like one Main Street 5% Civic open space is about .16 Acres or 7,000 square fet um I'll show you a few examples here um so the Abacoa Amphitheater is about 082 Acres however that also includes the um if you're famar with the site the the whole Fountain area that's on the um the right side there so if you take that out just the Green Space where people actually sit and watch the concerts um I would I would estimate that's probably more like 0 five acres 6 um and you can fit quite a few people in there if you if you've ever been to a concert there on the right so this is just a small part of the Village Green Plaza um you know right out here so that's 42 Acres um this is what .16 Acres would look like so it basically get you the the um 9 911 memorial and a little bit of Green Space um here's harbor side I know this is you know kind of a controversial project and some issues there but um 0. 28 Acres um for their their water fountain and in kind of outdoor seating area um Alton is 0 49 Acres um I wish I had I wish this was working but it's it's basically that entire area if you're familiar with it everything from lenora's um to the South and a little bit to the to the um to the left side of the screen there is all about 049 Acres um these aren't now I'm not saying these are the the best designed Civic Open Spaces or the type of Civic Open Spaces we'd have but I'm just showing you for for size comparison um also um at the mayor request I did a little bit of a dive into the comp plan to see what we have related to development incentives Building height you know things of this nature uh there is an interesting comp plan policy one uh 16.5 this is in the future land use element it says the village shall consider providing incentives to developers to preserve trees and natural resources and to encourage additional tree plantings and green areas um this the second part below I think I already touched on that in the previous slide so again in summary of of kind of the master plan and incentives um you know there's four areas that were identified as priority Civic open space locations three of the four locations are public property the only location that's not public property is at One Main Street you know all six Master citizen master plan designs did show a significant amount of open space of One Main Street Key recommendation section um you know list to consider appropriate development incentives and again the comprehensive plan States The Village sh con Center incentives to developers to encourage additional tree plantings in green areas so at the last Workshop I mentioned this idea where if if a developer provided um instead of providing that 5% Civic open space they provided 15% Civic open space so basically triple what is required by code they would then be eligible to apply for a waiver um so I just wanted to you know with this information in mind I wanted to you know talk more about whether you know you think that's a worthy concept and then um the next slides get into what the actual incentives could look like so I'll open up to comment any comments or questions at this time go ahead minor were going to be more geared towards the building height and density but nothing so I I can you just repeat I was just doing some math so can you repeat what you just said the last thing about a 15 15% sure well I'll I'll I'll just flast forward I know it's it's 30 it's we require 5% open space specific open space of which can be part of that 25 or 30% landscape buffer yep so above and beyond so then you're talking about what you're the repeat what you just said about sure yeah so so this is a possible height waiver um and I have two options here for a height waiver or for a density waiver which is in another slide but U the code right now says you cannot get a waiver from Building height or from building density so there's a way that we could craft this to say that you can increase the maximum height of a building however a development over two acres that creates 15% Civic open space so that would be triple what is currently required by code may be eligible to apply for a waiver for a partial fifth Story which cannot exceed 50% of the building footprint so that's that's just how I drafted it there's a lot of different ways you can you can tweak it you could say that it's only uh Avail you know can only be granted for um uses that are open to the public like restaurants and lounges um are you I'm sorry it's the recommendation or just the example that 15% is it part of the landscape buffer or it's an addition to it's an it's an addition to although the Civic open space code does allow Civic open space to be provided in the landscape offer so it be 10% more but but it would have to be 10% more than the the 30% minimum right okay um and I just look at the tradeoff of allowing some type of waiver only because while you're looking at the footprint you might say well that's not much but it goes straight up the developer is giving up a tremendous amount and and by doing so there's going to be ultimately less as I said before less floor area and potentially less density but so if you just look at the the footprint oh that's not that much well you're losing that times 50 feet so there's a lot that they're they're giving up so it's a I like where you're going you're heading that um I I mean I have a couple comments I think I'll just wait so you get through but there there is also in the housing element in our complex objective 1.4.0 says continue to rely upon the private sector to provide to provide the limited infill housing that the village can accommodate while providing incentives hold on next page such as zoning amendments uh and mixed use regulations to promote the provision of housing that is Affordable to residents of all income and special needs groups at levels that are reflective of existing and projected demand so that is in our comp plan 2 I just want to throw it out there I don't know if that is something we'd want to consider um if we go down the route of incentives but I just want to throw that out there I almost put that one in the slideshow so thank you can you that one more time really you're the whole thing yeah hold on it's split on two pages so it's it's in the housing element of our comp plan it's objective 1.4.0 says continue to rely upon the private sector to provide the limited infill housing that the village can accommodate while providing incentives such as zoning code amendments and mixed use regulations to promote the provision of housing that is Affordable to residents of all income and special needs groups at the levels that are reflective of existing and projected demand thank you have other comments but I'll wait to see how U really quick something you said in the very beginning you mentioned a couple things that we do not have in our code why are you mentioning that is because you feel like maybe it should be added or someone's asking youd bring it up no so these were things that were in the master plan I might not have made that clear so the master plan had a section of key recommendations specific to the Land Development regulations and there were 10 or so right there creating three uh distinct overlays creating building Frontage Civic open space drive-thru screening parking creating primary streets requiring conceptual presentations architectural guidelines development of dark sky friendly so those were things that were all in the master plan and all the ones that say yes there are in the draft code the ones that are not are ones that were were not put in the draft code so are you just doing that to review it for us or is there a reason why you're bringing it up I mean I I think at the previous um you know meeting there's been a lot of talk of development incentives I think at the um L uh local planning agency meeting um they had made a recommendation for the village to or the for Village Council to continue workshopping um you know regulations U and incentives and of course yes I mean this is um related to you know the developers or the owners of One Main Street um have come in and requested that the village look at development incentives they've they've stated that they could provide what they think is a better quality project for the village if they could be granted some um incentives to provide that green space so then in looking you know I wasn't I haven't been here throughout the entire code process so when I you know look back through the master plan and see how how important creating Green Space at One Main Street is and then looking at what 5% Civic open space gets you you know I think it's something worth kind of revisiting and reopening with Council and in the community um because I think that's the only only real opportunity that the village has to create something substantial there um I know from from my perspective you know when I'm when some when a developers coming in submitting something for a project um if I don't have the tools and the toolkit I'm I'm not going to be able to get anything more than that 5% so okay I was just curious yeah you can continue well and just for record I mean I I for those that you know weren't part of the process but the the bilding height and development incentives you know after before we adopted the Code Council you know in a a workshop went through that chart like yes let's do this yes no and so that you know we workshopped it you know a couple times and decided based on community feedback I mean that's why they weren't implemented because based off Community feedback Council decided not to go and then the the dark sky that was punted to EAC which we talked about the previous agenda item so they're working on that but um but I mean I just want to that's the history there it's not because we forgot or haven't tackled yeah it's because we at the time um I think the overwhelming majority was uh we didn't want to the community didn't want it so that's how we landed there sure I do appreciate I mean sorry fresh eyes you weren't here for the whole process so I mean I appreciate your your take on it and the new ideas you're bringing now it's very helpful so thank you and since Jay wasn't there I can't ask him to talk about but in the staff memo under development incentives the second paragraph The Village master plan does highlight One Main Street property as one of four priority open Civic space locations in the village is that identifi was that written by Treasure Coast or was that agreed upon by the people that participated in the shreds that was written by Treasure Coast but it was based on so so that was these four pafic Open Spaces here and they and that was based on the feedback that they received at these design shreds so so everyone's showing in their in their designed shet tables the desire to have Civic open space there and at other okay so Treasure Coast wrote it but based on the feedback from those the seven tables corre um and the master plan also states that the consideration of appropriate development incentives for Town Center in Main Street um that's a key recommendation so that came out from is that a recommendation from staff at Treasure Coast or was that a recommendation based on feedback from the same planning charette so staff ultimately wrote that um but I assume that it came out of again out of the the findings from the shs okay so it's clear that the village master plan states that the concept of development incentives was raised during the village requested planning process and but there was little to no interest in raising building Heights or increasing density so the people that participated said they didn't want it but it's also the same people that may have said this specific parcel the Town Center parcel is where we should focus on what was called the priority Civic open space location in the village correct they may not have had that value tradeoff discussion right do would would we be open to granting you know a little bit of extra height or a little bit of extra density if it means you know a bigger park space yeah I don't know if it was that nuance and I'm not here so I wasn't here so I me neither and that's why I'm just trying to get clarity on it because it seems to me like the people that said we wrote a plan based on recommendations where one recommendation doesn't does it's not congruent with the other one we say this is where we want to be the what I've always called it you know this is where the heartbeat of taquesta could be and should be in my opinion but the village master plan says that's the priority Civic open space to do that and I go back to saying my my my position that while they may be giving up a footprint of 15,000 square ft you might look at it from an aerial and say it's not that big but they're taking out for 50 fet of productivity and income producing property that's a tremendous cons um consolation or consideration being given so I just want to make sure I understand because the people that were in the room and gave provided feedback to Treasure Coast Regional planning Council staff to come up with a plan and the same recommendations that came up and I don't think it's it's disingenuous or or it's conspiracy wrd or or or odd that you're bringing these things to our attention uh just because there's one owner one owner one person owns Paradise Park if it was three different individuals that owned this we probably would be having this conversation sure okay I just want to make sure I think it's great to to throw this on the table and I don't find it Eerie or funny or or just coincidental that we're having this conversation because Mr Perko's in the room so sure all right I'll jump into Building height okay so some of these are slides you guys saw at the last the last Workshop but uh I'll just touch on it again so this is how we currently measure Building height 50 feet in uh four stories are 50 fet in the C2 and in the MU two stories are 35 ft in C1 and three sto and 40 ft in the C3 um I you know we touched on these at the last meeting it's the different height allowances um in North County um this is kind of how other places provide incentives um or measure height um juper inet District allows an additional story for live work units they allow an additional half story bonus for architectural variation um Jupiter grants um extra height for spires Bell Tower similar structures that create some architectural details they also allow a maximum of 25% increase in height for use of varying or assorted roof designs and styles and that's specific to Abacoa um North Palm Beach uh has a process um in one area that's a little more appropriate for extra height where you can apply for a waiver for an additional story um all codes by or um all buildings by writing their mixed use code can have a partial story provided it's less than 30% of the floor below and they allow rooftop gardens pools and restaurants um North Palm Beach and um Lake Park and their C3 code um this is again an example of a very large and dense site that's almost not even applicable but I just wanted to show that that um some places have um pretty extreme height allowances um and Lake Park um and their Park Avenue downtown again this is more of like the the mixed use kind of downtown quain area they have a a provision where the town commission can wave up to 20% increase and height for a building for architectural features Gardens has a Transit oriented development and mixed use overlay that allows a substantial height bonus up to 135 180 ft obviously don't even want to come anywhere remotely close to that uh and Juno Beach um in their commercial General and medical commercial they um say that their Council May approve an additional story uh up to five stories for a mixed use project um so Building height options um there's really four different options and four different things The Village Council could consider if they wanted to allow additional allowances um one of them is the measure height and stories as recommended by the master plan one of them is to control height and mass by maximum floor a ratio um there actually is a current restriction in the uh mixed use District of 4.2 F you can't physically Even build something with 4.42 F based on our height regulations but it is in the code I would not recommend us even opening the door of floor a ratio it's just very complicated but I'm just highlighting it as an example sorry to interrupt can you maybe give an example like when you say option right now like can you explain right now we meas I'm going go I have slid through each of these forces the introduction to these thank you um the third is to allow architectural features above the maximum Building height and the fourth is to allow an additional story or partial story to be approved by waiver um so measuring height and Stor so this was a a code recommendation in the uh master plan um so if you have a 50ft height allowance you really don't provide an opportunity to have good floor Heights within the individual building so a retail or restaurant doesn't want to have a 10- foot building height right if you go to a restaurant you want to have a nice race ceiling so you want to have a little bit of of additional height especially in your first floor and when you're in a mix use District um allowing that encourages and and enables people to to create that additional height on that first story um then when you um you know if if you don't measure by story and you you know you're kind of limited to maybe a 10 foot second third fourth story so if you're doing multif family again you have kind of tight uh maximum roof Heights and you're kind of boxing yourself in and not really allowing a good product to be developed so the concept of measuring height and stories this is going to look you know like algebra or something complicated at first but I'll try and simplify it um this is how North Palm Beach and Martin County and its mixed use District kind measure height and stories so what you do is you set a maximum height for different types so for a for a storefront or a shop front where it's a retail type use you'd have a maximum height of 16 ft if it was a non retail you know storefront type use you could cap it at 14 feet then every additional floor can get up to 12 feet and then you also create a maximum um space between the ceiling and floor below and so it it basically enables people to to build you know appropriate Heights for the type of uses that we would probably desire in our mixed use District um so as it says over in the bottom right corner you know an environment where a municipality is trying to encourage a mix of uses measuring height by stories and not feet can allow greater first story Heights for retail restaurant uses um the exhibit you see above that that's unfortunately only a three-story building but it shows kind of how it works in practice so you have 16t Max first floor and then every floor above it can be up to 12T um in a four story building the maximum height You' be able to get would be 64 feet so that would be increasing the height you know from 50 to 64 feet but it would still be a four-story building FL a ratio like I said I would not recommend even considering this but a lot of codes do use FL a ratio to to regulate um building Mass um we have no height restrictions in our code or I mean in our comp plan um but we do have floor floor area ratio limitations it's 4.2 for non-residential uses and mix use buildings and mixed use um basically the way it works is on a on a on story building if you're 100% covered the lot you're at a f of one on a four story if you were doing a four story building and you're covering 100% you'd be at a Four f of four um so this kind of shows just how that works um you know it's used a little bit more in urban areas I think Downtown West Palm uses it a lot you know New York City uses it um it's used some somewhat in more Suburban type environments but it is a tool that's in the toolkit um allowance of architectural features this is stuff I mentioned the last meeting so you we could create an allowance to have architectural features like spires bell towers or similar structures like that um that could be a maximum of 20 ft above the maximum height which is in the Jupiter code um or like Lake Park we could create a provision where the council could wave up to 20% increase in the height of a building just simply for architectural Fe features the way our code's written right now with a 50 foot height you're going to get boxy flat buildings um you're not going to get any kind of AR architectural articulation above that and you're almost incentivizing bad architecture in my opinion uh another another thing the council could do is to you know create a specific allowance for rooftop gardens pools restaurants or Cocktail Lounges um you know roof tail rooftop restaurants or Cocktail Lounges can be up to x% of the square footage of the floor below it could be 25 30 50% a lot of different ways you can do it um and you can also write in the code that um that that um rooftop area has to be screened adequately from the street so these are the examples I showed showed last time obviously no one you know Henry Flagler is not coming back to build these buildings again um but these are you know beautiful buildings in St Augustine Flagler College and then over on the right that's something that's a little more you know recent and realistic that's a Rosemary Beach a a hotel that a lot of people like in that instance you know the you wouldn't be able to build the bell tower um that I think features prominently and and really makes that building look good um the other idea is you know what I showed you earlier which is to to create a possible height waiver language um and this would be just for a partial I mean there like I said there's a lot of different ways you could write it as it's written now um you know it says that if you create 15% Civic open space so you know triple what's required by code you would be eligible to apply for a waiver for a partial fifth Story which can exceed 50% now because there's a waiver they have to provide public benefit and if the council thought it didn't look good you don't have to approve it if if if you know during the site plan process we absolutely on on um you know a project that would be four or five stories we would absolutely ask for renderings at the street so so you would be able to see exactly what it looks like so in the One Main Street instance we'd ask for a rendering from uh from US1 from Old Dixie from taquesta Drive um I've I've done it before on projects um where I'm showing it from from nearby residential neighborhoods and so the council would have a very good understanding of what that would look like and if if the council didn't like it you don't have to approve it uh and as I said earlier you could you could restrict it to only uses open to the public like restaurants and lounges um you know here's some good examples of you know rooftop rooftop lounges so that's the Restoration Hardware in Downtown West Palm where they have a you know beautiful rooftop dining that people overpay to go eat at and here's a rooftop dining Lounge in Miami um there's you know that's a big a big thing in Miami I'm going to New York City this weekend that's the the hottest trend is having you know rooftop lounges and restaurants where people can go to and you know you can design them to look you know where you really don't even notice them that well from from the street um here's an example of one this is in Jacksonville um where there's a a brew there's a brewer that has a little bit of a rooftop bar there and when you get down to the street level and in a two-story building you can you can barely even see it questions on height Council I don't have any specific questions um I think those are some interesting options though still kind think about it yeah well I'll jump right into density um so the The Village currently allows a residential density of 18 dwelling units per acre and the mixed use in C2 zoning districts as I said we have that maximum Florida ratio 4 two um which you can't even conceivably build with our height regulations um I want to give you guys some examples of what density actually looks like so uh I found an Architecture Firm that had created this guide of the different type of um housing units and what the density generally equates to so you're going to see some very dense projects here they're simp simply just here for um you know for for you to look at they're not for consideration whatsoever or there's 150 dwelling units an acre we're not we're not considering those just for for reference they're in here so I was afraid to even put this in the staff report because of that um so tow houses or R houses typically about 12 12 to 18 units an acre which is you know around where we're at with 18 um cluster Manor Homes again about 15 to 22 an acre um kind of similar to where we're at at the 18 Garden Apartments can be generally around 18 to 25 an acre um this Village cluster suburban homes um again kind of a three four story multif family that's you know spread throughout the the entire property a four story building with a Central Garage structure um this would be you know a little bit more of an urban project 45 to 70 units an acre so again at 18 units an acre you know this is not the type of project you're going to be getting from that um you know a fivestory with a Central Garage structures 80 to 95 an acre four five story over Podium garage 90 to 110 an acre so again these are things mid-rise housing these are things you're going to see in you know Downtown West Palm or maybe in Palm Beach Gardens uh interesting density comparisons so I showed some of these to you at the last meeting um I forgot to add the one on Fiesta so I think it's called Ocean House was recently bought Ocean House has the highest density of these four you'll see here and I'll walk you through the the density on each one of them but it's a two-story building um has the highest density of of these four multif family so Central Gardens on Palm Beach on um Central Boulevard and Palm Beach Gardens it h it only has a density of 19.5 dwelling units an acre even though it's five stories um but the uh it's 33,000 square feet per acre um and it's a fivestory building uh and the density is low because it's mostly three story I mean three-bedroom units um so there's kind of this relationship between the size of unit and the amount of density and mass um the point is um you know just south of FPL on US1 in uh unincorporated County 22 dwelling units an acre the um square foot per acre is 20 2 6,000 so 7,000 square ft um an acre lower um three stories and it's a mix more of an appropriate mix of one two and three bedroom units atlantico Alton 27 dwelling units per acre um 33,000 square feet per acre um and this is more of again a mix of one two three bedroom units and then here we get to Ocean House and Fiesta so this one's a whopping 30.7 dwelling unit an acre I was very surprised to find that um but at the same time it's only 22,000 square feet per acre so 11,000 square feet per acre less than Central Gardens um but it's only two stories now of course this isn't something that could get built nowadays there's not you know an appropriate landscape offer um you know it's not the type of project we want but it's just an example of showing that you know two-story building can have a higher density than than taller buildings and if you were to ask the average person out there you know know what which is the highest density of those buildings they would say you know the five story and the four story not the the two story so these are the density bonuses I showed last last meeting in North County um a lot of them are geared towards Workforce and affordable housing that's pretty consistent you know around the state and around the country um but there are a few that are just tied to public benefit so in juper puds you can get an extra two dwelling units an acre um if you provide public benefit benit for that um Lake Park has a complicated thing where you can use the density from like unused density from other projects that are that aren't built uh it's we don't want to consider anything like that but it's an interesting one um and then in Juno um their density bonuses vary by by District but they're um allowable within their puds just like Jupiter and um you have to provide public benefit so any increase in the number of dwelling units allowed per acre requires an update to the comprehensive plan that's a difficult and lengthy process to go through um we could certainly do that if Council wanted to um but there is an kind of an easier way to to allow additional dwelling units without amending the comprehensive plan and to also kind of promote smaller more affordable units um as the mayor said in that that comprehensive plan provision um one way to do that is to change the definition of dwelling unit to count one bedroom units or two bedroom units um as you know 0 five for density purposes so here's some examples of of and here's here's just the Santa Barbara one here is just kind of an interesting one just for for understanding the relationship of um average square foot and density right so in in Santa Barbara if your average size of your unit is 95 Square F feet you can get 27 units an acre if your average size is 14,000 you get 15 an acre so they're they're clearly showing that there's kind of a relationship between the size of the units you're providing and the number of dwelling units you can actually provide on a site uh there's a lot of you know stuff like this happening in California they have a huge housing crisis they're probably a few years ahead of us in that regard um so they're probably thinking a little more forward than we are on that at this time um locally both Stewart and Martin County do have a very similar provision to the one I've referenced so in the Martin County CRA code um units that are 800 square ft or smaller are counted as one half of a unit so kind of the exact same thing I proposed and mentioned at the last meeting and then Stuart has two different types of um bonuses they offer in their Urban PUD district for for small units 500 square fet or less a one-bedroom unit counts again as as 0.5 up to 50% of the total units in the the thing and they also Grant a parking space reduction down to 1.25 um for 700 foot um unit they do um 75 up to 50% and the parking space per unit is 1.5 then in their mixed use PUD District they average out the total um average square footage of units and give you a density bonus um based on that so you know if you have a if it's 1,00 ft average you get five dwelling units an acre if it's 1250 you get three and it's if it's, 1500 um you get one so you are um kind of pushing people to create more affordable reasonably sized units rather than you know a luxury 3,000 square foot unit on average and I'm getting there I'm almost done so um the density waiver here is pretty similar to the last one it says that um if create that 50% Civic open space you could be eligible to apply for a waiver to allow up to 50% of the one-bedroom unit account as 0.5 dwelling units um again there's multiple different ways that this could be drafted if the council is interested in it also in terms of parking Council asked the last meeting how does how does allowing that bonus affect um parking should there be also be a parking reduction and that's something the council could consider but I do want to point out that um in a in the mixed use District you can do a shared parking agreement and that usually is is lowers the parking burden down quite a bit so the table and the bottom again it's like too complicated for 8:00 at night but um it shows that in a mix use project that requires 200 retail spaces and 200 residential spaces because there's synergies between between um shared uses um right like during the daytime all the residential residents aren't going to be there and at night time the retail users aren't going to be there so you get you know kind of parking reductions there so in this case instead of providing 200 or 400 spaces they provide 360 spaces um there's a lot of different ways in our in our code currently that you can you can reduce parking you can provide a parking demand statement um by a licensed traffic engineer that that um demonstrates that the parking is lower than um required by code um and so all I'm saying is I don't think we would have to create any kind of um parking reductions for smaller units because I think there's already a lot of different uh paths for a developer to meet parking through shared parking or a parking Advance statement that's my presentation thank you for your time apologize went so long thank you for your time that was that was a good presentation all right open up for discussion thank you Jay so have a few questions and think of some more as we continue but so regarding the height um so the measuring by Story versus measuring by the actual height is that an incentive or would that be some kind of code change that applies specifically to that overlay sure yeah I and I don't think that's even really a development incentive it's just just really a different way of approaching a different way of approaching it you are allowing people to get additional Heights so I mean in that regard it's a it's a benefit so you could you could call it incentive you could say it's just an development allowance would it still be treated as a waiver or that would just be the standard for that that district council could create it to where it's by right and I think they could probably you could probably craft it to say that in a mixed use project the council May grant that because again it's encouraging mixed uses with you know uh higher first floors yeah so if Council wanted to kind of keep that control and and that public benefit aspect of it I I think we could we could draft it that way I'm okay just curious um and then my other question is regarding density Des our um because we were kind of there was two different ways of looking at it up there when you were running through some of those examples it was either uh the unit per acre or the square foot per acre do we have requirements tied to both of those metrics or is it just units just units I put the square footage for comparison because it gives you an idea of how how tall or how big the buildings are themselves all right I mean I would say generally I you know I have to keep reminding myself for these W the waiver process I don't mean to put it this way but ultimately it is in the council's discretion to say yes or no so I don't I think put putting these out there um especially when you start thinking about the design of buildings and they can incentivize a better looking building if we give them a little extra height for the clock tower all that stuff just as an example I don't view this as a bad thing at all I mean at the end of the day it's within our discretion it's just creating options for developers to say you know especially when it comes to the public benefit or Civic open space is like hey we really need this if we can get this extra half story or whatever it might be we're going to give you the additional Civic open space that we may never have that opportunity we may say yes we may say no but that's in the council's discretion at that point whoever sitting up here so generally looking at development incentives as a whole as long as I think they're reasonable and again we have the discretion then I have no problem talking about this or looking at these options um I'm still kind of thinking about the ones you put up there as far as which options I would go with if I had to choose but as a whole that's my those are my thoughts in regards to height and density again I'm not a big fan of increasing those because the village is lucky that we even have what we have um I would highly advise this as a council not to put it as a right but keep it as an incentive of a waiver because I've said before for me these kind of things absolutely have to be heard per property Project based on location public use everything about it where it lays and then obviously we need public feedback because I would never vote on something about public feedback um so that would be my advice is we just keep it as an incentive or waiver not for right and then what was the other thing oh the examples you showed for those increas in densities even though that hopefully would never be us but some of those massive numbers I do take in consideration when I see those the buildings I see but where's the parking so those are things so I know we talked about when you slipped last time that half a unit consideration but then how did that affect the parking cuz are we looking at a garage attached to the buildings now are we looking at bigger parking lots um I did have the pleasure of driving around the past week I see a lot of that style of the buildings with the parking garage attached I really hope that's not where we're going that's not lovely at all but when I see the dty so if we ever consider an incentive or waiver increasing density um I just want to make sure we talk about the other logistic of that what goes with it yeah and if there's a parking garage that would ever be required I mean ideally it would be wrapped right you can you can design them now to where the the parking garage isn't noticeable so that's something that the council could look at right so you could say we don't want to approve this waiver because you have a standalone garage that is not attractive sure but again that goes back to council discretion sure so I absolutely would support council discretion on any of these um I agree with my my my colleagues um giving again and I've said this in Prior meetings you know we have a a master plan that details and puts forth a vision from those people that participated in the shet um and it comes down to you know really this this this overlay I don't say this partial but it's it lays in this overlay in the village overlay and we can't ask somebody to build the our vision if we don't give them the tools to do that and I think these waivers are the tools to do that um but I also think they need to give up something at the same time which that 15 the 15% recommendation that you came up with I was kind of trying to thinking of this subject property and breaking it down and what does that look like and again because I want people in the public to understand if you just look at an aerial you're looking at a you're looking at a onedimensional well this is a three-dimensional loss that the developer will be doing so we can ACH obtain and achieve the vision that our master plan looks for um I like all the recommendations that you put in there um again because it gives us the ability to gives an applicant the ability to build what we our residents have said they'd like to see um it provides open space it provides an abundance of over of open space um but I think because of that they need to be given a density or a waiver for the density I like it in the one bedro rooms um and I like the way the Poke the shared parking can work I think that's a great opportunity to encourage that mix juice development on in the mix in the village overlay um and but when it comes to the height I know we had something in there of like a 50% of the floor area for the the the rooftop something um you know if they choose to do a rooftop up there uh I'd like I think it should be a little bit more than that maybe 65 but that's up to the the counil but I like the recommendations as you put forward I think it allows us to build a vision that has been set forth by the residents and prior councils as well um so I'm I'm still going with you know I you know I said last night I've talked to a lot of people and the majority still are not in favor of um additional height or density for you know a little bit more of an open space but I keep coming back to um the matter that we are only discussing this because of One Main Street property that's it that's truly the only reason we're discussing this because they have come to us and you showed very clearly on your presentation that when we had the community uh sh process that was one property that everyone was focused on that really wanted to see you know a great uh you know a great mixed use building built there that had you know above and beyond you know Community Gathering space that was outdoor per se so I'm still having a hard time wrapping around why we're going to add this option a waiver option to the entire district and it really seems like we should be just focusing on one property and it's hard because I know a lot of times up here we you know it's like you can't just favorite one right sometimes like do it one do it for all because you can get yourself in a pickle right but I do feel especially based on the public feedback we got like it is appropriate to maybe just focus on the property and not open this up to an entire District because I really feel like as a whole throughout the district the majority of the community doesn't want that and you know if we add that wave of process proc my hunch is anytime our property is redeveloped probably going to apply for something and so you are putting a lot of pressure on uh future because I I think the way the ordinance draft is right now it would go to pnz or maybe that was one of their suggestions but we were up for um adopting it that pnz would see the waiver before us so you're putting future pnz and future Council under a lot of pressure to make tough decisions um if you open up the whole District so I'm I'm still trying to wrap my head around why are we potentially adding it to whole District when it's very clear even based from Community feedback it's just as one property everyone really wants to see something special um and and just remind everyone the Civic open space with the you know ordinance draft everyone would have to add that anyway so future developments would have Civic open space it just wouldn't be above and beyond like what people would like to see at the One Main Street property um you know so again I'm I really I feel like we just focus on one property and not add this to the whole district and I think that if we do move forward with incentives that you know they need to be really Define in such a way that it's not subjective and adds a tangible benefit to the public you know aligns with comp plan objectives and I think the way it's written now um isn't there yet I think it's too open and subjective I think we should um you know for example the comp plan policy said something about you know having more trees so we should maybe say like and it has to have amount more trees than what the landscape plan current or the code calls for and they have to be this size caliber tree so make it a little more descriptive again you're removing the subjectivity it's removing the pressure from pnz and Council to make the future decisions and it's really clear to the velop to what what the public benefit expectation is um because I think the way it's written now is can be very it's very subjective still and I don't know that the way it's written really meets the comp plan objectives and I don't know if the affordable housing the you know the housing element incentive from a comp plan is anything we would want to write into that as well um and then not only just you know like the the trees but you know it has to be a community Gathering Place it has to you know if if we are attracting a community Gathering Place I don't know if our code requires bike racks but things like that like you have to accommodate bikes you know the parking for that if you're attracting people to the space that maybe aren't necessarily going to shop there so you're attracting even more people that would be attracted otherwise and like I said we're working towards more connectivity for biking and walking and golf carts even that's a place I think people can golf cart you know to that area so again having accommodations for that um the density I just I'm still really weary about density you know and again if it apply if if incentives we move forward with it and it's applied to the whole District like longterm you're putting a lot of pressure on our infrastructure you know our Public Safety you know parking traffic what is a long-term eff of that for a whole District um if and again I know Council can deny it but I think it's our job to make sure we set up future councils for success and think of everything we can you know if we're if we're adding this um the height you know I I a council member painter brought it up you know maybe that floor by floor would be an incentive I don't know that I want to change the code but leave that as an in in of like you could have these different you know measure by the floor and have you know first floor like you outline I mean I've seen that in municipalities it's not unheard of um so yeah I would not be in favor of changing the code the one that I um might want to consider I don't think this would be an incentive as an architectural feature so this with um like you said we're kind of creating boxes maybe so that might not be separate I think from the um the district overlay any of the overlay districts I think that might be something we want to just kind of separate look in the code and apply that um maybe to the code not so much the districts I don't what does council think about that because you are kind of missing out why you're on that topic I think we have that for our residential I remember Neil's the a couple years talking about the roof lines of the H of residential houses on our West zoning because they didn't all just have a straight roof they had some of them had the little um yeah big faux attic hype windows on the newer houses so maybe we just look at adding that same kind of language because there was a height restriction to those specialty architecture elements it wasn't like you could build like a point it had to be a certain height with the so the way that the commercial is measured is the same as the residential okay so if you have a a pointed roof the height is from the midpoint of the roof not not the but you still it still doesn't solve the architectural features part right so then you still can't do like a a clock tower or something like that that could maybe hi like an elevator to the rooftop kind of thing okay how would it work if um procedurally just applying it to a single property or or two or three Parcels I think the way one of those codes reads is that you can you the council can grant those architectural features during the site plan approval process so we could even write in the height code probably just like a couple sentences where it says the council May Grant May Grant additional height for architectural features such as bell towers spires Etc um up to no more than x amount I think was it the juper one says 20 feet maybe well that might be a little high but okay so it can be applied yeah we could tie it to and we could tie it to site plan approval so I'm not against that either I mean I I agree we're really talking currently about one property um and I guess you know you look near term it's probably not going to any time soon but Redevelopment will happen at some point you know and uh I guess I keep going back to it's within council's discretion but it's also hard to say you know who's going to be up here making those decisions so um I'm not against that idea at all of just applying it to a single partial or multiple Parcels at site plan approval May mayor um Jay or maybe somebody Keith perhaps when does something become spot zoning I've heard that term when you're selectively choosing partials within a a district or we spot zoning and is how does that look or where do we stand with a liability standpoint for that well whether or not this is spot zoning I would be more uh um my my advice would be to look at this not for just one or two Parcels but um I understand what the mayor's saying but I think it's more defensible and um to put your waivers or incentives either in a zoning District or in an overlay and the District because even though if there's today you may only have this one particular thing that's in play you know the reality is a lot of this isn't going to be brought to bear on properties for for years down the road and and five years something else may be in play in that in that right next door to it or 10 years and so you know I would I would advise the council not to think about just what's going on today but to think about ultimately what you want that whole area to look like because this is going to take time this is not going to get all redeveloped next year this is going to be way down the road so um you know to say we're only going to allow waivers on this parcel that there could be some exposure there thank you um for that opinion because right now yes there's one applicant that has brought this to of our attention but I can think of a property that has been vacant for a number of years uh next to the post office think about building on Bach Beach Road that came in for a conceptual that we haven't heard back from I heard one I heard a comment that they may not come back um there's a cix property correct that's within this District that is in the process of being demolished so we in with in six months time we could have a number of people coming back looking for something that's why I've always stressed the overall District versus and maybe it's the wrong word to call it spot zoning but that's just what comes to me um so that's why I was looking for it in in the overall District not I'm just not in favor of adding it and I I think I brought this up at the last meeting could we could we add it just to the mixed use Zone in the district I think I don't know how many other zones are in is how many zones are in the uh Village Center I think so would it be appropriate just to add to allow for the Mixed use so in the village over yes I that's that's to just have it in the overlay I think there's a defense there's a way to articulate why we only want it in the overlay and also the the draft incentive language says for Parcels two acres are larger so we had some other stuff in the in the the new overlay code that tie things that to acre Bridge size so that way it wouldn't be available to every property but when there's a large assembly of land so there may be a few opportunities but not not every property could do it and then the examples you provided from other municipalities how is it all via waiver process for their incentives how do they um handle incentives a lot of them were by right well a mix like so Juno Juno says you know Council May approve an additional extra story for ha um I don't think they call it a waiver but it's they just say they may approve it um just like the L Park one says the town well the Town Council May wave a 20% increase in height so those ones are kind of waiver or Council approval um the Jupiter Inlet District stuff is by right the Abacoa stuff is by right and the North Palm is is by waiver and then and some of those density bonuses I talked about were by right like so the the ones in Martin County and in Stewart were both by rate okay and then um I one more comment there's some other policies in our comp plan that if we go down the route of adding an incentive waiver I think that um they should maybe be written into the waiver so it's really clear the expectation of what you know the public benefit needs to be provided and um how to align with the comp plan so I I don't know if I need to read them all now I can do it at the next Workshop or meeting but there's just a couple of policies I think would be important to um identify and that's something that we can do during the comp plan rewrite process so once we're kind of through with this the eac's comp plan recommendations are going to kind of come forward so we could roll any other comp plan changes kind of into that one if well it wouldn't be a comp I think it was it's stuff from the comp plan that would apply for consideration for a wer like stuff that you know like when we have a I can't remember you there was an outline on the in the ordinance uh draft that says like it needs to you know meet this meet that meet that for a waiver so maybe adding some of the policies from the comp plan that are applicable because there's some like for example uh respect the Privacy associated with the exis open space so there I mean there's just a couple that I think would be really applicable to adding as a consideration for the waiver process that they have to meet all right any other Council comments questions I have none none um what's what's the next step from here comment oh yeah good idea any cards Lori yes Ryan Frankl good evening Council I'm Ryan Frankle I'm with uh partners with Bill perco and Tom Frankle in the Paradise Park project um So currently in the code you guys have Unity of uh title which allows two adjacent Parcels to I believe to combine ownership or com combined if they're the same owner to combine together to allowed to be one parcel and zoned as one parcel and all the requirements uh one thing that would be beneficial to this the nature of our site and the parking agreements that we have with Betsy the neighboring uh office building which would be allow Unity of control which allows two separate ownerships to kind of combine their Parcels as one so it's zoned as one for shared parking purposes um so this is one thing we'd like you guys to consider for um additional incentive or maybe an overlay in the mix use district is it allows mixed use developments to kind of share parking and commercial and residential requirements for that site thank you very much thank you thank you marshia neelson um Rick uh about the you have to remember that the shirat was before the bondu and in the minds of people in the community we owned it we didn't own it but in the minds of the people Paradise Park was ours and so when you look at the um you know the the um difference between people want the green space but they don't want the height that's why because the concept then is totally different from the concept now and that's the trouble with taking uh you know the sherette was a snapshot you know what I'm saying so that's why there's this conflict from okay people who say oh yeah I want green space but the concept then was not that that was going to be built don't ask me why that but it just wasn't um and I Molly you took the words right out of my mouth I almost didn't even get up because you know the post office is there and um in this fiscal year the post office is going to to have about a$6 billion dollar deficit and that post office is a satellite of Jupiter so if there is a consolidation that's going to be on the list I'll tell you the library is another thing it's the smallest library in the system and then Futures too I don't know who in the room besides Pat and I was here and Tom all the concessions that had to be made to get futures in that's another big plot and things can change so please do not look at just one parcel because those three Parcels that I mentioned in the next five to 10 years could all be at risk thanks Marth thank you I don't have any other public comment Mr Bradford I just wanted to make General comments the uh you know I went to the charet too I believe Patrick was there maybe others um and there was multiple tables and at my table uh they were very clear they didn't want to change uh provide extra height or density and I just you know I I gave up on trying to convince them otherwise because like you know pounding your head against the wall after a while but you know in order to build a good healthy vibrant attractive City you have to have this thing called a toolbox a toolbox is your code okay and in this code Jay has provided you with uh both the standard elements that kind of there today and then the the special elements are what he just spent time discussing what that are there in a toolbox that you see these other cities have where they can pull them out and say okay let's use this and see if this works for this project so that we win and the Developers wins and the community wins that's all it is the uh there may be Merit to what you said mayor in regard to uh why are we doing it in the entire District overlay and there is you know I spot zoning popped into my head and maybe one of the options to to deal with it is just do the entire block and make it be whatever this thing's name is and uh you know so then it would be Bank of America CVS the the Betsy's property his property and the in the uh Wells Fargo you dodge the U uh spot zoning and uh maybe do something to make sure that along the edges of the property where the right way is that those can be there too because you can get special uh dispensation perhaps if you do a betterment of the rideway and you're a developer and that might be something you want someday but that's uh you just can't do these kinds of things the quality projects that you may drive to see in vacation or wherever it is that you see it it's all subjective what you like I might not like and vice versa but wherever you see something beautiful in an urban setting where things are tight and uh it's hard to do you can't just have a something set in concrete it usually doesn't work doesn't result in a beautiful thing that everybody's proud of so just feel comfortable and do the best you can and Jay's giv you a lot of options to play with and You' got time to think about it so think about it come up with a good to tool box for to Quest thanks stop Miss Watkins good evening everyone Pat Watkins 167 raar Drive first of all I want to really compliment Jay on that presentation it's it's very complete and it's easy to understand and I love having visuals I'm just a visual learner period um I have to agree with Tom what and I've mentioned this to you guys before it's just my opinion but we worked so hard for so many years to get the development process workable with the village and developers not to you know immediately to question like you know they don't want to do with we will have to work with them whether it's today or it's 15 years from now you're going to have developers we have some older properties who are going to need to do something and I'm not saying make it so loose that we can have something horrible at the same time I hate to see you make it so stringent that we end up with cell block buildings because you're just seeing basically four stories 50 ft that's it done you know you get a little too specific I think it only hurts us you know the village is precious to all of us who live here but we want properties that look nice we want them to be welcoming looking when you're driving through you're up there in the very minimal commercial districts we have but I just would caution you about trying to make things so stringent that a developers don't want to develop here or they can't possibly buy a piece of property at the current values and then make a profit on what they're putting on it they're businessmen they're not going to buy these properties to redevelop or develop if we have vacant language we have very little and make it um something that's an asset to this Village thank you thank you Mr perco hello Council Phil perco um I'd like to Echo Mrs Walkin sentiment um AG that 100% it is extremely difficult and I agree with Jay's presentation I think that's one of the best presentations I've seen to date uh I think you summarized it very very well and I I can only imagine how many hours you put in that presentation um and Mr Bradford uh agree with you 100% um when we looked at this project obviously treasure coaches Direction is what we felt like the experience should be for Testa and you know everyone always talks as Jupiter out the downtown no Riverwalk obviously improved over the years toqua same thing off you know usually reference steuart you know that's a cute downtown it's charming and that's something that you know we feel like this area can be um with that you know to do a project like this there's existing conditions and Ryan alluded to the fact that there's some existing shared parking agreements makes it challenging um because we got to cooperate with other property owners but at the end of the day when you're trying to do a quality development um and the code is dated and you need to bring it up um optionality for us is key the more options we have the better product can build it really comes down to what do you want the community to experience and I think we're all on the same page there uh how do you get there aesthetically how do you get the right circulation safety there's so many things that come come into play here and I think with optionality uh is casy so if we come in and we needed waivers we got to put our best Bo forward we don't think we did I mean we're obviously not going to be successful so uh we're doing it in West bond with waivers um the city we're doing it the county recently with uh the new condo laws we're going to be building building a building so there's a lot of opportunities not only to plan for um Aesthetics and the way things function but but safety in the future uh for things to be resilient so that's something we're looking at the site as well uh there's different Green Building standards other than Le that are uh user friendly um and so again I just encourage you to look 50 years out 40 years out optionality um Council changes um waivers are not a given uh I agree with Mr Davis uh you know for us if you just did it for us you're going to set presidents and you know what does that look like and any know the idea is you know we want to drisk the situation on both sides so I appreciate everybody taking the time um to hear us out means a lot uh we look forward to working thank you thanks thank you think that's all the public all right Council what how would you like to move forward my suggestion is if the majority wants to add some sort of ascent of we need to identify those for a Jay and then also if we think they need to be um maybe a little more descriptive not as subjective as it is now give them that direction as well I guess we the main thing we need to figure out is it is it going to apply to the district as a whole a block single parcel it's pretty well I'm having so what Mr Bradford B doing like the whole block is that right so there may be places where increased height or density makes sense in the village and there may be places where it doesn't is but you know we need data we need to be able to point to something and say you know it makes sense in this block because this is more centrally located more commercial and this doesn't make sense over here because this is closer to single family whatever it is um but you know there yes the short answer is it could be a block size but we just need to be able to Define why that's the that's where we're uh framing it in and I believe we had that conversation when we uh were meeting with the property owner egg we Ted like do we identify areas where that would be applicable versus entire yeah and I think a good way to do that it's a great point that Keith just brought up but to do it just um to everything um south of to Questa Drive because on the the north side you have some kind of more medium density residential town homes that are like to twostory so you know as you go away from there you get it might be more appropriate to have that height um and then of course on the other side of the tracks is Cyprus so you don't have any single family homes there so if you if you were to make it just south of Testa Drive um you'd be that height would be away from any single family homes so that's a thought right and like mean the very North End of Old Dixie you know by our water utility but does that really make sense to put like make that a community Gathering space I mean like I said it makes more sense for to be L Central MH so we're not so maybe that's something you could look at like kind of identify areas where it would make most sense I mean I would off I mean I I would say everything South OFA because also you know the Village Public Works Yard if we were to ever dispose of that you could you could if a developer could assemble a few Parcels there you could create a really truly walkable Village everything south of Desta you're never going to be able to do that South OFA Drive yes okay you're never going to be able to do that north of north of Testa so east of Dixie South OFA do you have a overlay map handy or no sorry like pulling up the map on my it shows like the do you have it or no I I don't think it's in the presentation it's not I looked um it's okay though so if we did South so that would pick up um that would also pick up this CX site utilities is right here U right there I need when when would the south end of the village which is really which is our Public Works plant yeah I'm trying to find the overlay dist I'm a visual I need it I think this it was the May agenda wasn't it when we had the or no no no it's juper it stops right there it stops there yeah yeah just North I don't think it that's a big enough area that we don't run into and maybe it's again to use the term spot zoning now we're like area zoning like it's defensible because you're there's non-resident there's no residential in that area and there's a rational reason to do it like like I said you're away from historians and maybe someone else used to be manager of the village why was that that road right there called Main Street was the intent to kind of create a city right there like you um I don't mind who answers but I just the fact that we have people who've been here for so long and know the history even why that he's even called Main Street what was the concept of it even being called Main Street so yeah Tom Mr please come up yes Mr bre you can come up and answer a question please used to be yeah well originally it was called The Village Center master plan and uh I won't go on all the details we bought Publix we tore down Publix all this other stuff but the way we had to have a a a a a valid purpose for destroying a rundown Public Shopping Center and the valid purpose was create a street and we named it Main Street and make it go right through the middle of the shopping center and therefore because that was the valid public purpose we tore down through imminent domain the rusty crusty old public and but we we happen to feel aside from the imminent domain we happen to truly have felt that a street connecting the two to avoid the traffic on US1 and the traffic on o Dixie made sense um and so personally I still think it does but that was the logic that we needed something to to bridge with Bridge Road from toqua drive and we needed a valid public purpose for condemnation you guys had literal naming back then I love it bridging bridge road yeah that was going to be our town center right so I kind of asked that too because especially for people who've lived here for so long and that used to be a main attendance when the publ was there servicing residents just GE logically it just has that feel for residents over the decades that for some reason that's the feel of where our little Community downtown should be so I don't know how you define that but I mean historically it just keeps coming back to that spot we always refer to it as the heart of the central business so Jeremy's going to pull up the overlay so we can all kind of get a better and then maybe he give a high level opinion so the turquoise the last one so you're you're suggesting everything everything South deest to drive to our Municipal boundary correct and and this I think is an older map they've actually changed to to where the CX plant is in is in the Village Center overlay yeah the one I have has the blue squares going over yeah we updated that yeah that's the one I'm looking at so it includes the portion by the roow tracks that was just demolished so it just goes like this so it's this one that we've been looking at okay so Keith what is your opinion on that I mean would that be it's like I agree with what Jay said as long as we can reasonably Define the reason were drawing the lines where we're drawing them that that's that's what's important you see do that I'm I'm comfortable with that yeah I am too so does that become its own aside from the village overlay oh let's definitely create another overl like Mak sure we don't have to do that I don't want to come back in three months and you tell us that so Council woman BR we would just say in that caveat where where it's like what you can where you can apply for the waivers it would say for properties south of in the in the Village Center overlay for properties south of taquesta drive you may apply for a waiver if you meet yada yada y I'm in favor of that is there a consensus with that I'm member Brandon I'm fine with that and then what incentives height and density just height just density do we want Jade to you know elaborate on them a little more be a little more descriptive and bring something back should we just flip through them again real quick kind of give a and obviously this is there's probably others out there but these are the ones that Jay thought were do you want I mean I know the ones I think we should include as options but the one that like list I think there was one slide that listed both of them wasn't there on page 17 of the PowerPoint if you're looking for if the goal is to acquire or or get additional Civic open space then a waiver that allows more height is Rel is directly related to that because you're going up instead of out same thing with density same thing with parking if you if you you know there in my opinion those are all related to the goal that you're trying to attain so uh any of those or all of those would be uh waivers that would be appropriate to meet that goal okay I'm in favor of those three that you discussed except the um the one that was with 50% the 50% uh for the rooftop or something like that if you're in now was that for private use or is that considered Civic open space or just a rooftop for the extra fifth Story that was you can you could draft it to say that it could be for anything you could make it specific to restaurants and lounges yeah I I wouldn't want it to make it spec I would like it to be be used by the by the applicant by the by the applicant because they're already giving up buildable space you know they're giving up this not this they're giving this so I'm in favor of you know letting it go to that to that because they're giving up something so to say you got to give us a park on the roof that defeats the purpose of getting the 15% down on the earth on Terra fora so I would say let's I I I would be in favor of of saying that that could be used for just additional height um but articulated back I think 50 is may be a little tight maybe 65% but that I could live with 50 but I'd like to see more again as a waiver that doesn't have to NE neily be approved by Council if you said three I'm I'm what was the third there's parking um do we have a did you have a parking talking about shared parkings and that's already in the code so we wouldn't have to do anything on that so I I was saying that there's already enough tools in the toolkit that I think that we don't have to touch that's right you did say that okay so it would just be the and then that density but specific limited to the one that the one bedrooms can I ask a question before you when you were talking about the the density of on on Fiesta MH that's the you say p square footage per acre do that mean there're smaller units so you're looking at a bunch of one-bedrooms versus three bedrooms okay I just want to qualify that but only two stories right but also stories one bedrooms may not pencil out so I don't know how much somebody would I don't know by offering that as a potential waiver I don't know how much would it make sense I'm no developer I don't know if we're going to really butt up against that but again it's an opportunity to provide an opportunity so I would be again in favor of the height and the density as a waiver subject to council approval can you go back to your density options that you had listed because while I wouldn't I don't like increasing density at all I think we should put some sort of I don't want to say a cap but then again for me it's all the logistics that go with increasing the D see things you don't see U couple more down J so let's say we threw there was in there like one or two bedrooms rather than three bedroom unit just how do you cap that almost so this is it's written to allow up to 50% of the one bedroom units to count as 0. five so if they had they had 20 one bedrooms only 10 of those could be counted for that 0. five and it's only for one bedroom units so it's it can't be used for two or three bedroom units it's a way to incentivize smaller and not the whole complex would be converted okay yeah but that wouldn't change the parking requirements no and I mean those Logistics it just don't make sense to me but that's for architect to figure out I guess is it like one or the other twoo like are they allowed to play for both or is it height or density Ian what I mean to me say one or the other it's a hard it's a hard pill to swallow right I know when I theity sentiment is that they don't want density or height and to allow for both potentially you know is it one or the other is it a tradeoff um can I tell you my opinion that's what we're up here for so I think because we're such a small little village I think it should be one or the other and they shouldn't get greedy because if it is a Civic open space and let's say like point out they don't they would be giving such a 3D portion of their potential profit or whatever you want to call it is that like is that worth it to Residents to give them both height and density so I think it should be one or the other my my only comment on the height is that we might get better looking buildings with the height I can't I don't think we can forget that well does that so the additional additional height they're probably going to take that for an additional a use a story it's going to be another story of a building so you're not like on top of that if like we're talking about adding allowing architectural features like unique features that would be an addition to that I don't oh okay yeah yeah okay I got and again that's I think those architectural features if that if that's something that Council wants to consider um to give more flexibility and more creativity um you know to the designers that we kind of handle that separately outside the overly District because I think that could be applicable overall and not necessarily targeted per district and again I'd want like kind of Deep dive like what's the best height what's what's the best you know width of you know a feature that goes 20 more so I think there's a lot to look into but I think that could be totally separate okay I agree so I'm thinking the height inside of is like it's going to be an additional story for you on yeah right but if it's 50 to 65% I you know how much more can you put up there on one potentially one maybe two buildings depending on what it looks like I don't know what we hav't seen a conceptual but for what you're giving up can you add that in the remaining buildable space at 50% so I think you're you're your density probably still comes in underneath where it would have been just because you're giving up potentially 50 feet of buildable real estate and then if you're going to restrict it to that upper store to the next store to 65% or whatever it is I I don't know again I think it comes up to the design I don't know if you can build as much on on an extra floor as you're giving up on potential four floors you're giving up a section of four floors if you're going to give us this green space right here right and that's a good point that's going to be different based on the size of the the property and so then like to vice's point when when if we allow this waiver process when would that be analyzed in the site plan process right cuz you can't possibly Define that now because it's going to be dependent on the property size right or could you define it out like the trade-off like you're giving us x amount you can Define it now because possible knowing so it's like how do you how do you address that then at s plan time like oh well they're giving us this it would have been this density but now it's going to be I mean I think it just get it gets way too complicated yeah I had an idea in my head I'm not going to bring it up because it's way too complicated um have you and I apologize if there was an example you've talked about but is 50% kind of the the the norm you would see with that height waiver language um or are there ones locally that exceed 50% I mean I going back to North Palm it's 30% by right so you could have an extra story 30% by right but then anything above that is a waiver okay so that was one um the Jupiter one I believe was it's 50% um in the jup Inlet District was that the work not the workforce no that's in the in the building height one where is that district is that the one by like love street so that's yeah that's basically everything from the putt putt to to like utiki areen they looking at redoing that they actually did redo it and took a few things out they used to have a very complicated way you you would to meet like a sliding scale of criteria and there were points and if you met a certain number of points you could get things and it was just too complicated and they took that out I think I think the ones you presented North Palm was the one that was more fitting for us than the Jupiter and the Juno I didn't like those ones I forget what you had on they were all listed on there I'm pretty sure it was the North Palm one the only yeah it's this one right here the only thing different is that they have that 30% by right oh no I don't like the right so back to my original question do we want height and densities or height or densities it's unpopular for me to say this but I think height and density can be should be able to again it's a waiver to be considered because if we're going to give about 10,000 say it's 10,000 square ft is the parcel times four stories that's 40,000 square ft of and say they're 3,000 square foot units so that's what 3 6 9 12 units can you put 12 units on the remaining articulated roof space additional FL I I don't think so just the math in my head something like that if it's 10,000 foot the partiel of land we really giv up 40,000 foot it's 10,000 time four so I don't think it's ever going to we're going to run into a density problem but if something can make somebody can make it work with one bedroom units then you again why can't we look at it give them opportunity for a toolbox yeah I I think I'm I'm going that direction as well again I just keep going back to it's waiver I know it may not be us sitting up here but it will be a council's discretion to make that informed decision and I the toolbox I I agree um you know I know development is a controversial subject but it's going to happen and I think we should have the ability to get the best Dev elements we can get by creating those options um it's not by right if it was by right I would never be saying this I just it's such an important not to look at one but that that district is such an important district for the future to Quest of what it could be I think we have to create some options to get the best development we can get there and and the most potential Civic open space um and you I you made a comment I I will say from you know the people I talk to I the majority are not anti-development I think everyone's very realistic that it's happening we we like to see improvements but they just want to make sure that it's not you know like I said we're not allowing addition yeah giving it away like they want to make sure it is the right fit here but the majority of people like they understand it's you know things are changing development's happening and they're not against it it's just managing it and and you know are hopeful that their Council will manage it properly yeah I know and that's the check and balance I mean I think the only way i' say the people I speak with same like most folks moved to Questa because they're trying to get away from the development you know but they understand it's reality of where we live and it's not i' I've never viewed development as slowely as negative I mean there's a lot of positive things come of development um I think the only way to show a common resident what this really means is to say hey look if we haven't build by right this is what it could look like if we offer these incentives look look at this open space and look at these buildings and I think a lot of them would probably say I'd like to keep that option open you know not give it to them but you know they all El all of us to sit up here and make good decisions on their behalf and again it probably may not be us sitting up here but hopefully those people um are are looking at the village and protecting it and the character the same way we are so yeah I I at this time I'm okay with both height and density that doesn't mean you have to give them both it might end up being one or the other um at the time but I think why not increase that toolbox to put it that way you know I also don't want to forget because I know they brought up multiple times the UN and I know it's a whole different subject but that Unity of title Unity of uh control I think at some point maybe you're talking to them offline but I just know that that's come up several times so maybe not tonight but at some point we should talk about that um I'm unded on the height Andor density I needed to show on that a little more um on the on the language too I would I think it just say that creates a minimum of 15% because I think the way it's written now like well here's your 15% so I think I should say minimum um and again I think we should like you said the comp plan was specific with you know enhancing saving trees or enhancing trees so maybe putting some language in there to make sure we're getting you know a little above beyond what our current landscape requirements are with trees just so we're meeting that comp plan objective and then sorry I'm scrolling the density one second I mean same on that yeah minimum of 15% soic open space and the tree stuff so 50% of one bedroom unit to count and then like you said that wouldn't change anything with the parking requirements so no so that would be the same and I mean with with with increased density they would still have to show like their impacts on infrastructure traffic I mean yeah with all the concurrency review it'll still count as a full unit it would yes okay so that's not going to be reduced okay sorry I'm just reading my notes to make sure I don't have anything else here can I ask yes J repeat that so for concurrency it's those even though it's considered in density a half a unit but it'll be for a full unit when it comes to traffic and just just to be on the safe side that's the best way to do that's I just want to make sure okay council member Brandon anything else to add not really I don't like any of it but we're talking about it it's tough oh I'm not saying it's not tough I'd rather talk about it than that's all I got for tonight you want to bring something else up so Jay are you clear on your direction I can recap it for you I think I got itar clear mostly clear one last question is councilman painer had brought up the idea of also granting the height by Stories versus height by feet do we do we want to all like so do we want to have them be able to do a waver for that extra partial story and do we also want to have something where they could apply to have the height counted and stories not feet I'm not a huge fan of the stories I think that would definitely be a one or the other because away from we 10 12T now they're 15t if I'm choosing between the two I'm going with the the one we've already discussed the 50% additional four yeah dunk clear as mud and then the area you're clear yes okay easy question yeah and so do we think we need to Workshop it again or do you think Jay has everything he needs he's like please don't make me Workshop this I just really enjoyed your presentation I would love to see I I don't personally feel like I we need to Workshop it but I'm certainly will make myself available to do so I think the direction is pretty clear and I think we were very clear on formula stuff last time yeah so would this have to go to pz again no we just bring it back they recommended that you look at incen do this okay so we followed the lpa's recommendation and we will proceed I'm trying to remember what we did the last time this was at the council I don't think you moved the ordinance I think you tabled so are we back to First reading bring it back for first reading with the revisions that were discussed tonight probably in sep I mean September is the earliest week we can make it yeah all right okay and then separately should we add the architectural feature topic to our future Workshop agenda like just add a tour list and then Jay can start no pressure no like not sorry to interrupt yeah now go ahead it's actually good because I I wouldn't mind relooking at our architectural guidelines in general so it might be a good opportunity to revisit that too so the only thing that's going to get implicated this is a village initiated ordinance we're going to second reading won't be until October after October 1st so we're going to have to do a business impact estimate because uh the amendments to that statute go into effect before we'll have this on the books which I mean it is what it is we just need to remember we need to have that on on the website before second reading okay what exactly uh what does that exactly mean so last year legislature added a uh requirement when you adopt certain ordinances you have to do a business impact estimate that estimates the impact on local business to the code there were there were quite a few exceptions and one of the bundle of exceptions was ordinances that had to do with comp plan amendments Land Development regulations uh that exception was taken away for Village and for government initiated Land Development regulations effective October 1st okay so could The Village do second reading at the September Workshop if we can get it on the books before October 1st then we avoid the requirement that would that would be what we would have to do I'll talk to you okay we can talk about the timing of that offline is that is that an expensive Endeavor no just no more thing to do it's just another another thing to do yeah okay all right thank you all for your time thank you thank you Jay thank you all right next up and I know so technically um our workshops are supposed to end at 9: per resolution but margery's been sitting here so patiently I'd like to give her the opportunity to give us update on P even if it goes a little bit after 900 P p.m. is everyone okay with that 100% yep Marjorie thank you for your patience yes I was going to say talk about conf ated and trying to talk about it so um and I wanted to go ahead and give out this is part of the agenda um items that were attached but I've talked about going ahead going ahead and passing this out as well and just for record we are moving on to agenda item four the past regulatory update and compliance with the new EPA standards okay marjerie Craig uh utilities director so this is just a quick update on the pepos regulatory up uh compliance uh with the new rule by EPA and so um you got a slide presentation I don't know if You' have it Lori there we go you have the clicker up there do I I do excellent okay and I kind of like this diagram because it it shows the kinds of things that fos is found in um they're por and poly floral alkalol sub substances or compounds um you've heard them referred to in the media it's forever chemicals uh it says here a group in my slide which I did produce a group of 4,000 substance substances widely used in different Industries but I've also seen the number as high as 7 million chemicals across the world so they are everywhere they're in our toilet paper they're in our rugs that are they're just ubiquitous they're slippery um one thing I missed on my slide these are Organics with it's really Florine so it's it's chains of carbon atoms and Florine atoms and that bond is very very difficult to break they're designed to keep things from sticking they're resistant to heat water and oil so they actually make great repellants and it's so difficult to break them that um the the temperatures are extremely extremely high uh to break those bonds to force them to become carbon and chorine again again where are they they're kind of everywhere they've been used since the 1940s I have a little tank there because they were originally used for defense tanks um they're found in the groundwater near airports factories military bases households so there's some testing that has shown that up to 97% of Americans have peos somewhere in their blood and this shows some sources of drinking of of p and drinking water septic tanks is one um plant uptake the rain I mean it it can come from anywhere uh fire fighting foam we've got a defense uh piece of property that's close by I mean it could could be anything um the one thing that I'd say about this that the EPA and looking at this okay here this is the diagram that I handed out so right now the industries that produce posos are not really regulated the discharge from the industries is not regulated so that's a challenge um and it shows here that I I guess the the oh ites it sort of works no not really it just shows that the industries uh if they discharge to any of the water bodies and of course we get our water or portable water from either uh underground aquifers it can contaminate the aquifers or surface water sources so all right so moving on to the really and this talks about Across the Nation there are some of the states did uh preemptively set some low amounts for posos levels requirements 12 to 15 parts per thousand Cal in New Hampshire and California is 5.1 to 6.5 parts per thousand but the US EPA has set the level as four parts per trillion so this was last year in March they announced proposed drinking water regulations for six posos compounds and I won't read them so you'll be so grateful to me get another candy later um so in this year in April they came out with the final rules so to put it in perspective four parts per trillion is one drop of water in five Olympic swimming pools it's one penny and10 billion I mean that's the kind of uh small amount of posos that they're talking about as far as measurements the testing is very expensive and the testing levels the ability to test it is very challenging the testers cannot wear we you may recall that I came to you and I said they have to retest they have to retest some of the tests became contaminated um it when you take a test you can't have showered the day before you can't have anything on your hands no cologne no perf nothing and so when you take the test everything the the the the risk of cross-contamination is great so that's why it's it's such a challenge to measure it so this is a bunch of technical jargon that talks about about the levels of particular compounds that are now regulated um and that they modifi a hazard index so it's like a matrix you know a com combined posos chemicals and if you are over that Hazard index then you have a problem so I think the important thing to know is that you know MCL is a maxim maximum contam contaminant level and the hi is the hazard index and that index the hi MCL is the level at which no known health risks are anticipated okay so theyve set that at four parts per trillion good news for taquesta we tested our drinking water at the point of discharge into the water pipes and there's no exceedance of the current EPA standards in place using the curent current Source ratios so what is that ratio you guys already know it but I'm going to tell you anyway 60% reverse osmosis water treated through the RO plant and then 40% uh surficial alaer water treated through our conventional Filtration plant we found no posos in our um upper Florida and aquifer Wells there is some level of posos in our surficial wells but because of the Blended water it's below the EPA standards so if so the current blend then we're then we're good we meet the standards if we had to change our Blend or um if they reduce the standards for some reason uh we have looked at additional ways to treat the water so there's three ways basically to treat water with posos by an exchange and that's to break the long chains of posos or activated carbon to break the short chains or membranes so right now they're uh we're Engineers other really smart people smarter than me are looking at ways to dispose of and to break those chains and create ways to dispose of the um the concentrate or the spent media so with that that's just the references for my slides which was uh from a number of colleagues and then EPA side and my circle one is from Riverside California but I really like the thank you Marjorie comments questions it's good news it's great news yeah thank you that's great way to end the meeting do you have anything vice mayor no I just do do most municipalities that have their own water facilities like did they all does everybody use the RO process in addition to we made that not even close no that's right not even close good I guess my only question is is can residents do anything no right nothing at home like they can't do anything it's just you know all right no our water's good our water's fine it's no just not even why but I mean like you said it's been all it's been all of our news it's in literally everything it's literally in everything so I'm not saying we shouldn't be cautious about what we're using whatever we life but just is there anything we can say to a resident do we do this or do that like no right but we're doing our best with the water yeah okay um it's just everywhere I wouldn't even know where to begin they can educate themselves on where it is so they don't use those products I mean the ones that I mean but as far as our water's but curling irons don't use toilet paper you make educate yourself on all that CU it's all got past in it like feminine hygiene product I mean like it's in everything marjerie I just wanted to say thank you you know I just I'm so proud of our water utility department because you've stayed ahead of the curve on this um and you know I always I've said it up here before I you know when you really think about like Public Safety and water are two of the most important things that we provide to our citizens because without either of those lives are at risk so it's extremely important to um take care of our our water utility and I know you're really active and involved on like other boards and you know state organiz so you're always ahead of the curve and form there too so thank you I know you'll keep us apprised of that um I did have a question for Keith I know we you know hired the outside Council any update on so that whole end of things yeah so we we have been listed as a phase 2 claiming in the 3M and the DuPont settlements um Tao and BASF settlements are being um are being reviewed by the courts to be preliminarily approved so those are still in the works but for 3M and Dupont being a phase 2 claimant means that we have uh until uh uh July 1st of 2026 to continue testing our um our our water to determine if it's contaminated what I heard from margorie was correct we we do not have uh contaminants that are going to put us in a situation where we're going to be able to make a claim at this point so we have basically 24 more months to continue testing and if testing comes back um showing contamination then we will'll be able to file the the they'll be able to file on our behalf a claim based on that on those test results but that that's kind of where we are I mean the good news is the water is not showing contamination above the I guess the the limits um and I don't want us even call that bad bad news but the the on the litigation side that means that there's no evidence that's going to support a claim for compensation at this point but we have two more years to continue testing so that's kind of where we are and do we have plans to test again leading up to that deadline so the C there's a cost associated with that aart yeah I mean I I can't speak to what it cost to do this testing and and and did you say do we have plans do we have plans to test again like up to that deadline in 20 yes we will we'll be testing again we'll be required to test by the EPA for our the point of um uh distribution but uh we also intend to do some additional tests in the individual Wells they've come out with a new testing standard we're going to try that I've got another um place to have the test done to see if we can have them done more expeditiously we'll say okay and then I know you said based off our current the current blend is that could could that blend change down the road I mean is that base I know we have I don't know if they're correct words permits but we have to pull a certain amount of gallons from each like aquafer is there is that subject to change down the road so just like many utilities were constrained in different ways right so um I think down the road there we may go to more flid and water but we we can only do so much because right now we discharge our concentrate to the lockah hatche river and so we can't exceed a certain quantity or that will trigger um you know non-compliance with the Water Management District so if and if if somebody found um posos in their you know water then they couldn't discharge they'd have to figure out another place to discharge the water like deep well injected and for us to have and that that would be where we would if we suddenly had U posos I'm making this up show up in our Floridan Wells then we would say hey you need to drill us a deep injection wall right because we can no longer discharge the L Sai River okay thank you all right any other Council comments or questions no any public comment all right with that get a motion to adjourn so move second all in favor I 9M on a DOT good work never actually seen this place no