jobs and wages locally owned businesses create more jobs locally and in some sectors provide better wages and benefits than chains do and to that point I'd also like to say some of the largest and most profitable corporations in America are among the top employers of beneficiaries of food of Federal Aid programs like Medicaid and food stamps think about that McDonald's Dollar General which we have here in the village and just allowed another uh Five Below dollar store to go right next to they're among the top entrepreneurship entrepreneurship fuels America's economic Innovation and prosperity and serves as a key means for families to move out of low AG jobs and into the middle class environmental environmental sustainability local stores help to sustain vibrant compact walkable Town centers which in turn are essential to reducing sprawl Auto use habitat loss and air and water pollution product diversity a multitude of small businesses each selecting products based not on a national sales plan but on their own interests and the needs of their local customers guarantees a much broader range of product choices all that to say I'm not sure while why we are still debating restrictions on formula based uses after local residents and local businesses local business owners have given input on how they feel during the shet process and repeatedly since then and even the village of testa's own mission and vision statement supports this protecting small businesses also I'm a little sad that we want to give up on the US1 Corridor as a lost cause in trying to maintain Village charm I don't see why it needs to be separated out in fact a separate issue I would love for the speed limit to go down to 35 like North Palm it's part of the village I don't understand why we're suctioning it off and saying oh it's you know it's a different part of the village we don't care if it's full of Chains It's not in the neighborhood the village is small enough it should all be seen as one and lastly if the financial feasibility of a project hinges on including National chains then maybe that development needs to go back to the drawing board because the project doesn't sound like a fit fora thanks thank you Maran any other public comment Mr badford Tom Bradford 44 chesna Trail to Questa Florida 33469 it's Preposterous for anyone to say that a municipality will send them a letter to tell them they're going to have a meeting I know you bent over backwards and did at this time it just doesn't happen Okay and any citizen not just to Quest a resident can sign up on your website under the heading of agenda and minutes and check off the alert box for whatever they want whether it be Council EAC whatever and they will receive an email and it will tell them the meeting is on such and such a date and oh by the way here's a link you click that link and you're going to get the agenda and the backup So for anybody to suggest that you people have been disingenuous is in fact a disingenuous statement secondly what I'd like to say is the reason this ordinance or this overlay is not a bad thing it's not a taking be to it is not a taking to go from a use of right to a special exception it's that's simple the other things like Civic and other aspects of it there's waivers you guys control the legitimacy of any request where they make or they make to have something that's not pursuant to what's written in the uh ordinance so I say go for it it's about time it's overdue and one last thing the um if you want to see how maintaining parking in the rear of the fac of the building really looks go to Testa Square which is the office complex immediately south of the Mobile station at the corner of US1 and County Line Road and take a look at it from you know say from the East looking to the west and you will see how much greater and much more beautiful that is is than what's allowed today so again go for it please it's overdue thank you Maran um John is 250 to Quest a drive um you know I'm I'm really disappointed I I've lived in this Village since 1976 and I I I managed a commercial property in this area for 20 years that I finally came to Fu and bought okay I'm a small business just like any other small business I'm not some big developer back by a RIT or anything like that and I really honestly feel attacked by some of this dialogue going on here and that you know I had many opportunities to do that I was at that charet and I spoke to the the representative from the Treasure Coast Regional planning Council and there was no discussion of overlay districts it was all about density and I had a very thorough discussion with him about density and what his Envision for that Paradise Park property was and his density was way Overkill in my my estimation I said your streets don't accommodate it it it doesn't work for the small community of Testa I I didn't think but again that's not for me to decide that's for the village to descri decide in their ordinances and the property owners to negotiate a a site plan approval for what when this came to my attention after reading in the Palm Beach Post the first reading advertisement for this ordinance okay it addressed and again confusion Clarity whatever it is and the council has been respons to me as well as staff and everybody else I have been asking for clarity my primary concern for mine was regarding formula business for my financial institution they directed a question to Keith regarding and it it has appeared to me that financial institution are are separate from that they are not prohibited under a formula business to my understanding right now I'm not 100% sure on that still but I believe from my conversations with staff that Banks don't include that another example that I want you to understand and again that when you are proposing developments that Banks do look for credit worthy te tenants a Public's Plaza can't be developed by showing them leases for 10 small 1,000 square foot uh shopping uh uh spaces for business you need an anchor ten that's going to be a formula business or a a creditworthy tenant that you need that say that a a a small business is ready to retire a gym or a restaurant or something like that somebody wants to come in there and buy that out so we're going to prohibit them and I take exception to the fact that it is not a takeback it is a takeback to go from a use by right which is guaranteed to a special exception a special exception is subject to the the discretion of the council lims that is not a guarantee a use by right is a guarantee so that it is a takeback and when I first managed that property at 250 to Quest a drive it was a commercial zoning it got rezoned to mixed use now it wants to be further rezoned into this overlay District each time is eroding my marketability and potential uses of that property which affects Financial uh Wellness of that property and that's the things that we just need to talk about to to um you know take into consideration as far as the Civic open space is I'm not exactly sure you know again I think it's been addressed as far as the you know liability and what the whole purpose it is if it if it's in essence applying towards the open space then why does it have to be Reed redefined as Civic space leave it as open space but you're asking for it to be redesignated for a different type of use which is inviting the public on to that property not for its intended use which is creating a liability for that business and property owner those are my points to make and you know I have always been active I am at my office every day I am in contact I used to attend the Village Council meetings I'm sorry I don't live here anymore after 45 years I got married and I moved to Martin County but that doesn't mean that I'm not at my office 5 days a week from 5:00 in the morning so I take offense well I'm not a special interest I I'm just here as a member of this community thank you thank you thank you Mr perco good evening Phil perco 300 250 Main Street um I was really excited to finally be able to be included in a productive conversation and uh really look forward to tonight um I can't tell you how disappointed I am it's uh I thought it was going to be productive thought we were going to focus on the issues it just seems like everybody's in a defensive posture um nson I know you do good work uh I do disagree with a few things I've been around I'm very in touch with everything that goes on and when Mr little work worked on this overlay he spoke about incentives in addition to defining these overlays and working on the Aesthetics of the the village and everything I agreed with um but he didn't talk about banning formal businesses or making it more prohibitive and I've never heard that and in fact I would love to ask somebody be on record at this hearing this a workshop excuse me when did this discussion start because I can remember when I think it started it started with Starbucks and Amy uh you know very friendly with Amy and Scott and respect what they've done with their business and prefer their coffee on record um I mean how many locations you have now Mr pero please address Council okay sorry I have to be all right so to get a definition on a formula of business I've heard three locations you have three locations in the US so there's been a lot of great businesses the LH house started in Jupiter and expanded Jack not you had a Jupiter Donuts I mean you've had businesses that started here organically and were successful because people liked them it's the free market you do a good job people come back you got a different mouse trap than someone else um you know with with this overlay you know I thought we're going to come here and just talk about it and talk about some of the challenges etc etc um you know we we want to do a great project I've been on record we want to do a park um we want to do a very interesting Park comp into it um you know I wasn't going to get defensive and talk about being singled out but you know I'm I'm just going to say it publicly we've been singled uh there was a moratorium that came up when uh we had project under contract we got through that and there was a bond referendum everybody knew it was under contract finally closed it now we have an overlay with these added restrictions not that we want to do a formula business not that we want formula restaurants we'd love to keep it totally uh local uh but there is a reality you have high interest rates you're about 10% to finance the project now the building costs are extremely high you have a lease rate whatever business you're going to come in in there's a way to hopefully be you know economically positive so it's a it's a very challenging environment right now and all options are on the table for us we wanted to come here and talk to you we want again we want to do a great project that the community will support us on uh we have a lot of great ideas I know there's ideas you guys have too we've talked oneon-one we just we just want to have open dialogue I mean we just want to have positive conversations we don't want to feel like we're we got to defend ourselves all the time um and I you know I think I was out of text on carmell but they had the vision in 1916 when they Incorporated that that that town they had the vision just like Nathaniel Reed had the vision to protect all this screen space around us so you know I talked to Mr Bradford one-on-one we wanted to do something very interesting with the park uh mentioned a gentleman named Raymond jungles creating uh different uh habitats at reflect Florida he did a really good job on Lincoln Road uh surprisingly it's in Miami of all places but uh they've imitated bald cypress tree habitats and the and the wetlands freshwater salt water and it's a big hit and they have retail around it etc etc so there's there's all kinds of things we want to do that are different than everyone else but we've never had the opportunity to prove that and uh we just need the conditions to do that so all I'm asking is put some trust in US yeah I'm a developer Tom's a developer we're both local I'd like to think that uh people that know us know us and I think we're sincere and uh you know we we respect the community and we just hope you respect us and uh that's it thank thank you are there any other cards I'm hold any other cards any other public comment NOP yes ma'am can you come to the podium and uh state your name and address again for the record please rcy Brody 57 Laurel Oak Circle so I live in one of the I live in the mix area and um I know change is inevitable for Testa and I like most I like what I'm seeing on some of the things that I'm seeing some of the things that I don't think have been um spoken about as pedestrian and all the u-turns that get made like on Testa drive that come around from US1 in the middle of Testa drive and also whether the roads can handle all this development like along TW Questa Drive that is a concern um my only other concern is I know when I was looking at the overlay or whatever for like Fashion Mall when you do parking behind I know it's more attractive my Community Banks up right to that and hopefully when you have parking behind something like the Fashion Mall that it creates not loud noises at 11 and 12 o'cl at night time or 10 o'clock at night time with because we're having some of those issues right now where employees rev up their Motors at 10 every night at 10:00 I hear employees cars behind that mall revving up their cars to leave um the restaurants in that area so I mean I know change is inevitable what I do hope is that I've lived in communities I lived in State College Pennsylvania I'm familiar with Ithaca New York and there's been Abominations in those in those college towns as far as development there what it looks like um I'm not sure bringing things up to the road so closely is a great idea only because I'm looking when I'm drive down us one I look at Lake park now and there building high rises up against the wall feels like you're in a canyon and I hope that testa does a lot with vegetation and stuff be you know in front of these buildings kind of like how Donald Ross at least has protected the view of the um some of the properties and whatever thank you thank you thank you thank you any other public comment all right Council I'll open up for discussion any want to start anybody can start start okay I usually speak last so yeah I forgot my new seat requires me to go first it do not anyone can go first so first I want to thank everybody for coming out and sharing your opinion with us regardless of what side of the issue we're on um this is all very important it's important for us to hear and obviously we want to take all of it into consideration um at our last meeting you know we heard a lot of stuff for the first time um that I think you know at least I don't know if caught off guard is the right way to put it but it was definitely unexpected um we heard that it was rushed by staff and counsel we heard that the overlays were I forget the exact terminology but onerous and overreaching and uh you know for the same the same reasons I discussed our last meeting I I disagree with at least those those parts of what we're you know we're up here talking about and why we're here but um and I I truly feel and I feel even more so today than I did last time I was up here talking about it after talking to a lot of people dozens of people from our our community that this is something that our residents meaning Testa the people that live here at least the people I've talked to and maybe that's just a small sample size but um I think I think generally this is something that people want um I don't think many people totally understood what it was I think the flyer that was sent out I think was awesome I think it summarized this very well whether you've paid attention to it for the last several years or not I think it laid it out very well and if you didn't understand it from the flyer there's a nice link at the bottom go read the you know what's been going on the last several days several years but you know at the end of the day I say all that because my opinion of what should happen with this it's really a moot point like to me I'm up here just like we all are as an extension of our residents that's it period if I don't want it um to me that almost doesn't matter if I feel the majority of our community wants something um you know that all said I am very glad just as I was last time we were sitting up here at the last meeting that we've done this I I don't think there's anything wrong with extending this public notice and hearing from other people that we haven't heard from yet I think that's great I think that is I wish we had that at every meeting you know frankly it's a little frustrating that it took us this long to hear it that's that's my opinion um and I I am never and if anybody knows me you'll know this is true I'm not in favor of diminishing anyone's property values that is not that that was never my intent whether I was behind this or not that was never my intent um and I I think I'm struggling a little bit to understand other than what I've heard tonight I'm struggling to understand exactly how we're doing this I don't I don't see this I think a lot of few people said this I think this could have gone a lot further and I'm glad it didn't I think right where we cut it off was a was a good place I think us one while I do agree with some of the statements were made it it is all part of taquesta it's hard to look at us one that has a ton of these formula businesses formula restaurants and then look at Questa Drive I mean they're just they're two very different environments within our community um same going for the village overlay that said I will sit up here and talk about this as long as people want to um I I don't want I don't it's not our intention to be unfair or to you know to make people feel like they're being singled out or anything like that that is not it um but I I'm I'm having issues understanding how this what we are doing is as you know onerous or as overreaching as everyone seems to think it is that's that's just where I am um so that's what I got thank you don't quote me but there was a question about when this started to be talked about and it is not because of Starbucks but don't quote me on the date because I'd have to do some fishing for you but but I want to say it was 2019 because we had new council members coming on board including myself and that's when the conversation started as to how do we keep taquesta a small mom and pop type feel with a few chains such as like Publix and Rocky Z Hardware Etc and it was not because of Starbucks and for me personally for my fellow council members I'm looking at this as a whole I am not targeting one property or another again this came up years ago for me and that property that seems to feel targeted that wasn't even owned by that person at the time so I understand their concerns and their feelings personally about that I'm sorry they feel that way um I don't look at it that way because this for me has been going a long time I do hear the concerns about the Civic open space and I agree with the legalities of it like working it out who's respons responsible for what liability issues and so on I'd be open to taking out the Civic wording and just making it an open space requirement and then that way if they if anyone wanted to redevelop or develop new and wanted to include a part of it for civic space to be used by residents that would have to be a specific conversation due to that project so we could work out the legalities of who's maintaining what who's in charge of what the hours etc etc that's pretty much all I got for tonight I am wide eared listening I promise you all of you um I'm not going to say too much else cuz I am listening and thinking and I've had lots of phone calls and I'm I'm being open but I'm still in I'm still in favor of pushing forward with something that helps guard us from getting too many Dollar Trees and this and that that's it for right now mayor real quick if H council is mind if Keith maybe you can comment on the Civic open space first of all I'll say Civic open space is extremely common there's municipalities that have that so this isn't unique concern to us um I know it says in the ordinance that it says that um the property owner could dedicate it to the Village otherwise they have to maintain and um maintain it is there I mean would that need to be Revisited just legalities of that we can look at that if we decide to move for toic open space okay well that's one of the questions that's come up in public comment last time as well as what are the details of that so we need to provide some details so we're not leaving them hanging FL yes thank you yeah one of my questions was the same Civic open space who is that liability I didn't think about that originally um until here in this speaking some of the property owners so I would like to have that answer um in the way it was elaborated about the Civic open space also being uh accredited to the amount of landscape uh I did not realize that till this evening so I appreciate that explanation what we've heard from our residents or what I've heard from our residents uh more than anything is that we don't want uh formula restaurants right they usually say chain restaurants and I think most restaurant or most residents are speaking of a you know uh 24-hour drive-thru Mexican restaurant or something of that nature they don't necessarily think of a three natives or maybe in the future in oceanana or other uh formula restaurants like that so I think there's a little bit of explaining the definition of a formula restaurant that's not always a multi-state or even a multinational business uh with that said I know we have extended these uh meetings and I was part of that request of making sure all of our property owners were notified uh properly I know we do have uh three property owners here tonight I would have thought we had some more uh show up if there was a a real issue a focused issue so uh again maybe there was a out of country out of state business issue so I'm still open to hear from those that weren't able to make it for whatever reason that may be um but from what we heard this evening uh I am support of this overlay and I do want to uh think about this formula business definition for our residents uh as well as us here on Council on how we execute them thank you uh mayor um before I give my comments I would like to just recognize and clear something up there's been a lot of uh chatter from the last meeting where we requested this workshop and it was came down to notification um and I sense that staff feels that they were kind of being singled out that our staff has not um be from the de or from the residents uh May perhaps they didn't notify staff has done anything in everything they they they are required to do when it comes to social media I don't think there's a platform that we're not on that we haven't advertise this um one of the items that we bumped tonight uh or we've discussed uh having a conversation about is our notification requirements and how we notify businesses but I just want to make it clear that our staff did everything they've been required to do and and nothing about this when you hear the rhetoric from last week or last month and in tonight about notifying people I want to make sure that staff knows it has nothing to do with with what staff did staff does everything they're required to do and asked to do we don't have a we don't have a notification requirement yet and that's something that we're going to discuss so these not meetings can be noticed other than how we typically do it um Mr Bradford talked about notice ways within the website I wasn't even aware of that as well so there's just different ways to navigate that but I just want to make sure that staff knows and stands that um this comment of us not getting the the word out has nothing to do with the the work that our staff does our staff does tremendous amount of work um an observation I have on the tester overlay um yila and it only because and I bring this out because the taquesta overlay includes the east side of the railroad tracks and there's we we've been it's on social media we've been discussing the demolition of the cix silos and the plants there and cix owns properties on both sides so what if a person goes to buy that are they're going to buy so they're now buying a partial or I'm just cix owns it both currently both partials east and west side and on the east side the only thing that is it's either the um the Florida East Coast railroad RightWay or there's a one little sliver on the east side of the railroad tracks of the cix plant was in is in Thea overlay and then there's the other half of that cix property even though they're different property numbers is in is in the mixed use and I still know if we want to include that property into another one it's just probably a conversation for a different meeting but we've got two properties owned by the same entity currently um that have two different and they're going to sit in two different overlays I don't know if we're aware of that or if that causes a concern for anybody but that is that is something that we can look farther uh between Keith and and I because most of the time when there are those type of situations depends of if you know if the property is 80% in one or 20% in other you know so what is the requirement that's a good observation and definitely we can address that okay the language okay thank you very much um in in general I've been an advocate for these overlays and I continue to be an advocate for these overlays I think um we've heard from residence about the fabric of taquesta and the uniqueness of taquesta and I think we capture that with our taquesta overlay uh keeping it that way um but I I don't I saw that a formula business can be allowed in the Testa overlay I thought we were going to have discussion of no formula business and no formula restaurant so uh that's just a comment for me for me I I I I'd be comfortable not having formula business and formula restaurant as part of that but speaking of formula businesses or formula restaurants we we our definition stops at three or more or says three or more is that a number that we should consider to be too low and I bring that up uh I only bring that up no maybe till like five um because there's been brought to our attention there's you know there's a form there's somebody might have four locations that started right here or somebody you might have three or four location I just think that is is three the right number I'm just throwing that out there is is it higher I don't know because I think we might find oursel regulating and legislating uh a business that perhaps three is pretty restrictive I Googled formula businesses and formula restaurant and I came I've seen them as high as 10 I'm I'm just so I'm just bringing that that up right now um we talk about waivers and uh variances and there was a SL in there yes youa can you give me an example of of a of a variance and when would we when when would it be proper for a a a council to to consider a variance a waiver or variance waiver I'm sorry waiver waiver thank you we can put can can I put the slide yes please there is one slide that compares both it was at the back right yeah very back close the next one then yes well variance is very clear you know you have to show a hardship with regard to the land you know the type of many times variances is because your lot is has some kind of weird shape and you cannot accomplish a specific setbacks so variance is very clear so I want to focus now on the waivers right so um all waivers must be granted by The Village Council in conjunction with the site plan review application the waiver process cannot be used to add uses that are not permitted under the overlay or zoning District so we cannot add uses increase allowable density intensity that also you cannot do by a waiver if somebody wants more density let's be very very clear density is on the comprehensive plan density and um intensity so if somebody wants more density that requires a comprehensive plan Amendment which is another thing um and increase uh increase allowable Building height that is also not a waiver so what is a wer then for example if uh I seen cases where a landscaping for example because our code requires x amount of trees x amount of these so that could be be some diminish you know uh request from the applicant and usually the waiver comes at this point you know we receive the site plan and we start comparing with the code the code requires x amount of trees located specifically at this and it might be that the lot is a little smaller or something or it's hard to locate all those treat that could qualify as a waiver you know in many instances Landscaping are usually that you know so or for example if the code requires uh the architecture architecture for example uh porches this and that oh I cannot look you know I cannot for any reason I cannot propose this porch here but I can propose it on this side so those are also uh something that could be considered under a waiver you see we are not talking about height we are not talking about density we are not talking about setbacks you know those are major words okay so on height um say in our mixtures Corridor our height limit is four stories or 50 fet yes correct um what if there's the greater good you know there something's going to provide a public benefit and that's been defined in here somewhere um where where I'm making this very I'm make this very lay in um there's three well I'll use Paradise Park okay I'm just going to tell you the example those are three individual Parcels correct yes can I ask the owner this should be three those are three individual Parcels okay those if those were to be developed individually parcel one two and three at four stories we would have the equivalent of 12 stories on those three parcels four four three three four story buildings okay what if the developer says I want to only develop two of those Parcels or put buildings on two of the parcels where he could have the equivalent of 12 aggregate stories four four and four he says well what if we could with a waiver for height be I'm only going to build on two of them so we only going to have a total of say five stories and four stories and this is a hypothetical I haven't talked to these G so we have nine stories total still less than you could have for 12 if you had four build three buildings at four stories each and what if you have two buildings at a total of Nine Stories like a five and a four the code is very clear each property each PCN number property control needs to comply with the code so let me let me chime in so if you wanted to increase the height on in any Zone that's a comp plan amendment is it not excuse me isn't the height is the height in our comp plan that just density the height is cold okay so just density is in the comp Amendment so the the the council could approve could could could approve a a a waiver a waiver for height it would be say that would it be a zoning text Amendment no okay if the council wishes to change the code right now the code requires a a four story or 50 fet if the council wishes to change the code then is a code text Amendment okay you know it goes through the LPA and the process so it's just a codex Amendment and just to to provide a little background because um I know not all of everyone up here was here during the process incentives did get brought up during the Treasure Coast Regional planning process um uh council at the time and the public we're very clear that they didn't want to offer incentives for you know if you give us this we'll give you additional height um so that's why it wasn't included in originally so the waivers would be for landscape it could be as I mentioned the slide is very clear height is not part of the waiver and then as I mentioned waivers could be for architectural you know changes or for number of landscaping you know know things that are and it will come in front of council and Council will need to approve those waivers you know okay um we have non non-conforming uses that if a use say something that is conforming now and then becomes a legal non-conforming use with the with the implementation of this overlay and that prior use is can stay conforming for 90 days is that standard or I mean because 90 days is it's pretty quick to turn anything around in 90 days should that number be increased to 120 days I would like to refer that to our legal council because we talk about this is very specific I think it's actually is it 60 days Keith no no no is not 60 days so it's 90 days and it's part of the current Village code and there is an specific provision you know so anyway we can look for on the code but it's not 60 days it's 90 we talked about this at the yeah we talked about this at the April 11th meeting and the intent of the 90 is because and this is discussions with staff that I've had is that they propose that because intent is to get everyone in compliance with the code so if you don't have that you're just not you're not bringing everyone in compliance with code and we did discuss maybe we make that like 180 days cuz we're not this plan was really to it's for future development right and Redevelopment and and the Future Vision of the village we're not necessarily trying to punish the current you know businesses or Property Owners that's not the intent this is this is our master plan for the village long term so maybe we give a little more time than 90 days um and make it that it's a like for- like business so if it's the same business go in that's already there we would give them more time but if it's not the same business it would fall under the 90 that's all I was asking 90 days too short all my whole point was is to is 90 days too short so we yeah I mean we can discuss that we talked about that last meeting I'm just trying to give my feedback oh yeah no I just want to give some input and and in this our our current code the maximum maximum of 5,000 feet of gross leasable areas allowed for each tenant or individually owned unit so it's a maximum of 5,000 yes uh the current mix use code has been organized in the 1980s I think and uh included that provision that if it is for example uh up to 5,000 square fet is approved by right is permitted by right and if it's more than 5,000 square ft then it have to be uh special exception use okay and that is to um protect the Integrity of the mix use the first intent which was to attract local businesses small businesses so that was the intent okay thank you on some of our we had a slide in there about um facades and porches and things it looked like on the corner of of Main Street and Bridge Road Main Street and if that's a if that's a building correct if that's a building it would be at the corner of of Main Street and Bridge Road it says on Main Street we allow a porch or we allow a bracketed balcony but on Bridge Road we don't allow a bracketed is that I mean have we gone through and cons is that consistent does that make sense it doesn't make sense to me it's like half of the building were allowing something and the other half of the building were not allowing it most of that code language was based on the charet where the main street was like the main character and then Bridge Road maybe was more like a secondary street but those are the things that definitely will you could request a waiver you know like I mentioned before those are architectural character that there will be you know some uh um flexibility okay and I I agree it's been said a couple times up here about the Civic open space um if we require that you know I guess there's still some clarification on that but I if we're even if it's part of the landscape buffer if we're requiring that to be open space I think should is it going to be what's the purpose of it then of of having if it's just going to be over if it's going to just part of the landscape buer and they choose not to do so they have to come up with one of those seven or eight possibilities correct yes uh for example when you go to Naples and you are walking on the street of Naples on the city of Naples you have on the side benches you have water font you have and those are a small small little areas with a little bench with a little uh water font that truly add to the character and to The Pedestrian friendliness so that that's the intent of those Civic spaces are we going to require do we have to have are we approving where the Civic open space will be required or does the can the can the developer or the applicant say this is where we want the open space to be and it has to be approved because we're not we're telling them they have to do open space and now we're going to tell them where it has to be when they're probably the the best person to tell us where would be so because again we are possibly taking away part of their rights in other part not with the open space because it's part of the the landscape but if we're taking away a property right when the people bought these properties they knew at the time they could develop it and put in whoever they they wanted in there now it's at the whim of the five people that sit up here the overlays for the a formula restaurant or formula business is there a way to allow the applicant to tell us where that 5% is going to be I so there is flexibility build into this where they can there are different there is a drawing that shows the different options that they have to do the open space Oh here it is you know there are different ways that it could be done right but we're going to direct that it'll be part of the site site plan approval process right so the same way that you guys would look at the orientation of a building and say I don't like the orientation of this building here um you'd be looking at the specific open space as part of the whole site plan ideally you know with the conceptual plan process that could kind of vetted early on so that they can they can kind of guide the rest of their development but um it's something that they would propose we would work with them on and then hopefully we can come come to council you know holding hands on on a space great sorry held off on all these last one um and the last thing I guess my last comment would be that um you know in the Testa overlay I'm not in favor of any any um formula restaurants or formula businesses and then to Quest overlay um I think we're legislating by including leg formula businesses I think we're legislating a problem that doesn't exist yet and I don't know if it would ever exist because I haven't heard me Rick Sartor has not heard people complaining about formula businesses and I do agree with some of the comments I made tonight that if you start getting rid of a a tenant a creditworthy tenant it's going to be very difficult for people I'm a 27e you know commercial Finance guy and there that that's a very true comment so I just want to make sure that when we include these I think us one while you know there's difference of opinions on US1 I think US1 is where the formula businesses and formula restaurants can be restricted or special use exception I think in our um mixed use or the village overlay I would support the uh formula restaurant um requirement as a special use exception I don't know if I have a concern with the formula businesses to be there or not but in the to Quest overlay I clearly want it I I would I wouldn't I'd rather not see either of those uh ability in that entrepreneurship neighborhood the propos go said now with the qua overlay is the formula resturants are prohibited and formula business permitted by a special exception right yeah and I would I'm in favor of not even having the formula business on there so they're both be this is just my think so but that's all I have on these okay thank you um I will there's a lot that's been said I will just say generally um I I appreciated having an additional workshop and conversation tonight and um I I am in favor of the ordinance pretty much as written I think there's some tweaks we need to make still um but I think this is my personal opinion you know Desta is such a highly desirable place to live um I can't imagine that adding one extra step for a formula business or restaurant to come to us is going to deter a lot of people that's my personal opinion but everyone wants to be here businesses want to be here I I just can't imagine one step is going to really have uh a you know detrimental effect on um the business community and I will say like what uh council member Brandon said this process started uh a long time ago before some current property owners own their properties I know when I was campaigning in um 2021 I knocked on about a thousand doors and people kind of like um someone said tonight it's like we know change is coming it's inevitable but we want a plan we want to manage it we want to maintain our charm and I think this really uh it does that and you know I I've heard from more people that they want this than not and I think you know we always are told what our our vision is and I'll read it again is we will preserve and enhance unique character Community Spirit small town values and Superior Quality of Life for all who reside visit and work in the village of Desta and I I truly think that this plan will do that and it'll enhance our village even more if we enact it um I do think there's a couple things that we need to look at which is the um defining the legalities of the Civic open space does everyone agree on that yes yes and then um the uh May brought up property owners that have properties into two overlays that's a tricky one cuz just because a property owner owns different properties in um different overlays it doesn't mean they're going to sell them all together so I don't know how I mean would that I don't know if that would be a waiver a j or Nilsa if there was a property on like the cmax property and they sold it together and then they had two properties that were in different can you bring up the zoning map the overlay for that showed all three of them that'd be difficult to legislate it it probably be easiest just to to tweak the the map for just that one proper make them consistent yeah I think it I believe the properties are being sold together so they're kind of tied together so I think it would make sense to keep them the same overlay so what so if we carage just out in property what happens if it if someone else is affected like that would they have to come and do like a zoning text Amendment for the overlay District or how would that work if somebody else wanted to to change overlays well just because someone owns multiple Parcels doesn't mean that they're necessarily selling them all together right you're saying CX is going to sell them all together we're assuming that we don't know for sure my question but that's an example so you have you have a property owner that owns multiple properties and some are in different overlays if they sell them as a whole and you have two properties in different overlays districts H how is that best handled because that might be we can't foresee the future and how things are going to be sold and who owns what so I mean there's a potential property that we know might go for sale soon but in the bigger picture how would we address an issue like that because I don't know if it's good to just do one property now for hypothetical or have a process on how we would actually handle that down the road are we talking about seix that belongs all to the but it's in two so it's in one part of they're different properties right but one property that they own is in the Desta Drive overlay the other is in the Village Center overlay the problem is it's across the railroad tracks from the rest of the tasta drive overlay so I think because of that uniqueness I think when I always talk about the overlays I say you know hey it's on the other side of the tracks there's a clear distinction I think between the two so because of that I I think it probably should be in the Village Center overlay in the future if there was a a debate or an issue about it somebody I correct me if I'm wrong Mr Davis but I believe they'd be able to just initiate a rezoning and request to be for their property to be relocated into a different overlay but in this case I uh I would recommend moving in Village Center overlay if if if council's okay it is Council okay with that amending the map for that sure yes makes sense okay um the number of businesses to be considered formally was brought up I know um you lands it wasn't at the last meeting it was another Workshop had brought up considering like businesses that were in Palm Beach County that they headquarters or can you kind of explain that again somebody brought this up that santelle has this where if if something was founded in and it was either in Santa Belle or in that county they're not considered a formula business so if like three natives I think has a crazy amount of business like 20 or 25 maybe um so three natives would be excluded from that or Jupiter Donuts or or taquesta they had 10 locations they could be excluded because they were founded here so if Council wanted to you could you could make it specific to taquesta you could make it specific to Palm Beach County you can make it specific to within 10 miles of taquesta I mean there's a there's a few different ways you could write it to exclude um those unique situations I know I think originally we decided not because that's I mean if you think about if you said palmach County like Florida Power and Light is founded in Palm Beach County so like they come in and do an office building here so I I don't know that's a tough one so maybe we up the number instead of maybe deciding I mean you have very very large corporations that we founded here I like cing the number not saying pum County same too much Hub I'll be honest I hadn't really even like thought about that because it wasn't really at issue that count is the first time it's always just been kind of for or against MH but yeah three is low like it's really low I mean like some of the basic definitions like I've seen like you said Rick 15 15 I think that's too high but I think in reality once you hit a certain threshold you're picking up everybody else anyway whether it's five or 10 or something what I mean if what would you recommend I mean off the top of my head 10 but I'd like to go look around and see what other places do and and we could bring back you know we maybe we could pitch 10 and bring back some data about what other places do and you can decide if to up it or or lower it at the next meeting I think it's that's a good point okay so do some research and then when we see it again your recommendation will be in there we can take it or edit it okay um two things this we kind carry over from last time was uh I did believe the waiver probably needed to be defined better and the definition section on ordinance it wasn't in there and I think for clarity waiver versus variance so it's extremely clear what the definition of waiver is add that to the definition section um this got brought up extending the the non-conforming from 90 days maybe if it's going if it's a like for like business extending that I think you had proposed 180 days is that I agree reasonable yeah we talked about that last time right was a yeah so it's like for like which I think that's what you proposed for 180 days so we can add that to the non-conforming area and then the other one was a business services included or not the definition in the ordinance did not appear to include Business Services but if you go under the different zones it says a under permitted uses it says Business Services excluding formula business so it's kind of conflicting so if we're okay with um Business Services not being included I think that that just needs to be fixed um under permitted uses under each overlay district and that would be like a like a UPS store or something can you define Business Services I think is like Insurance Finance recall without looking at the code exactly though financial institutions Insurance may or may not have included real estate I don't recall okay it did include it does include real estate but real estate is considered formula business so real estate is the one Business Services that's considered a formula business as it's written right now so like a bank or insurance office would not need to come in for a special exception correct okay correct except well there are some exceptions because if it's five was if it's 5,000 feet or more it has to come for special exception anyways under the underlying code under existing code so there are triggered somewhere else yeah okay I think that's all the carryover I saw from the last meeting what was the final on Real Estate Services I think it's considered a formula business that would have to come up it is as written right now is there I'm just curious is there is that pretty uh common for that to be written in that way or is there a reason real estate offices or yeah I mean I think we have a lot of local real estate companies and so I think we're you know trying to keep you know maybe the Keller Williams is or whoever the you know the big National people from coming in and kind of stepping on the localers just curious okay okay anything else that was brought up that we didn't address that staff has their marching orders on we had some edits um I think we ended on some of your edits from the lpa's meeting on the last list right which I believe we're all in agreement with but we left it on the table the last meeting if this is the proper place to make those additional EDS right so they can add that let me pull that up give me one second while you're looking just uh to clarify on the Real Estate Services Under the definition for formula business as in the current draft document it captures Real Estate Services in the definition of formula business so we probably need to um tighten up the definition of uh business service and and and without creating any non-conformities in the underlying codes but we'll have to tighten that up a little bit okay and then the LPA recommendations we I'm just going to read the ones we did not accept was um reducing the size of properties that are eligible for the payment and low of Civic open space from 2 acres to 1 acre uh make it clear that Civic open space cannot have artificial turf and then uh there was something about the 8020 provision that they wanted to revisit those three we did not um want to consider but the rest we did I agree with those yeah mayor I have a question about the overlay extending the one District including the other half of the cement the CX property why was that again are they two different addresses yes and I just brought it up because that's the only that's the only parcel it's it's on the east side because otherwise it's Florida it's FC railroad so that's a kind of just a it's a just a little finger over there and I'm not saying that they're selling it together I know but so if it's just including the one parcel that's owned by one person is it an issue for that person or are we doing it without talking of them I just brought it up the fact that we have because to my knowledge because it is across the roads and I know it has two addresses so I started to think about it and I just curious why we would extend maybe we just leave it it was a mapping issue honestly if we if we had really because it's such a small parcel I think we didn't even realize that we did it that way if if I if we were to redo it today we would we' have it in the Village Center over the I me in the drive over the room I'm sorry okay Jeremy I'll talk to you L I'm confused but all right anything else yeah yeah no um so what were the next step would this have to go back to LPA again I think that probably what we need to do is Council gave us a pretty pretty significant menu of uh items not only to just tweak but to to look at this is going to um take a little bit of time to get through these uh so I think we should either bring it back to your next I don't know if it well it certainly won't be the May council meeting but soon as we're ready bring it back to you um do you think it'd have to go to LPA again are the changes significant uh you know each of them in their in and of themselves might not be but when you by the time you add them all up uh that would be that would be the conservative path forward for sure uh okay that makesense good with that LP again and then us again I get more more eyes on it the better in that case I I did have one more question we talk about Real Estate Services I make sure I understood this correctly insurance services are allowed but real estate is carved out for a formula definition as it's written currently it seems like I don't know why we're picking real estate tossing them aside not Insurance it seems like we're we're cutting them or in we're cutting them out in that case and that seems odd to me that we're doing I know there's any other background that I'm aware of because Insurance real estate hand in hand in my mind what we do for one we should do for the other but again I don't know if there's a history that I'm unaware of in that case no we can can write it um to exclude and with a with maybe an annotation off to the side to make sure that LPA pays attention to that and then whatever their recommendation is it is come back to you and leave The annotation in there so that you can see what it would look like being excluded and then Council can redirect that if you know and if that was the only change or or one of just a couple small changes I I would be comfortable um making that change at first reading and continuing the process forward um that wouldn't be significant enough I don't think to start the process over a third time great idea thank you cool mayor I know it's been a long night but um you know Mr perco is asking for a second round of comments and I'm sure maybe others want to so if the council's open to it let's do it tonight oh no I'm sorry no we we do have a resolution that um our workshops end at 900 p.m. and it's 9:05 some already and there'll be we'll have three more public meetings LPA and then two Council meetings for public comment okay okay all right with that can I get a motion to adjourn so moves second second all in favor I bathroom so premature on the question I thought it was going so well