this policy was developed uh to be applicable if leans are passed or if they're not passed there's a options in there for both um it details the information that the collection companies like to have so it gives gives us an idea of what the collection company wants to go after the collections it establishes um that the utility director and the fire chief can enter into up to six Monon uh link payments so that people have an opportunity to catch up and pay uh so they can do authorized payment plans up to six months um and then it establishes that the Village Council are the only people that can write off uh receivables you're the only ones that can tell us they're not going to be you know on our books anymore um it and it also removes from the presentation in our our reporting those receivables that we did it establishes time frames between 180 days and 360 days to come forward with you and ask for the write off of the um stuff so once a year we'll have a a formal presentation to write off whatever accounts meet that 180 to 360 day window of uncollectible past the time that they they were collectible and um that does not stop us from working still working for collections on them we will still actively go after the collections on the ones that are are cost beneficial to us we're not going to go off the $10 $20 but we will go after the larger ones and with that I ask you to make a decision thank you Jeff Council any questions or comments for Jeff thanks Jeff um and we talked about this uh about a year ago several times um how is this I mean we more just formalizing the process now it's kind of the path that we've been following yes we're just trying to do a formalize it so that then we we have some criteria some some Milestones that we can measure against and tell you yep we're meeting what we said we would do instead of do you know um proximately the the amount between utilities and and the fire rescue service like but those amounts that we've written off in the past or we most likely write off now that this is formal I I do not okay I do not but it's it goes well back it goes a number of years back the time it it does yeah definitely for the transports okay thank you that's it add on that real quick I think what it was R it was really random I know before I got here they had went like two years before they wrote off EMS and then I think you know we've rote off um the utility billing like once and so but there wasn't a set time frames and you know put it in stone and let's do it so um I think that's kind of add to your point yeah I think it just makes it consistent and that way we don't have some that linger and some that we take action on and yeah yeah and that yeah there was it's there were just some gaps in the previous procedure so no I don't have any questions I think it I think it formalizes the procedure and um which is always good to have uh Clarity so good work thank you uh Jeff uh generally speaking I like the fact that you've done the uh the policy you need guidelines guard guard rails whatever you want to call it so I'm all for that but I'm a little sketchy on uh in this CA well first of all this item as well as item number two seem to ble bleed into one another because the utility thing is next but uh youve mentioned in your presentation the the 180 day Mark and the 365 day Mark um and you say it this is where it gets sketchy for me so it seems to me that the lean tool is the most important thing that we have okay I could be wrong but that's how I feel the lean tool is good for utilities yes sir okay so are so are you say well let me finish this thought um so in in the process you said that when those when they reach that point we might still go after them yes sir so what does go after them mean if you've already uh uh utilized the collection agency to me doesn't it doesn't it not mean lean two steps for the collection agency the first step is they do the letters and things like that and we pay a per case fee that we we give them the second step is we go up to the next level and they will go after them with their attorneys and then we offer up to half of the collections uh the 180 to 365 that's once we deem them uncollectible so once we've tried to get the the calls and those things done um then then we look at bringing them forward so once we've done all the all the processes we should do and are going to to do then we would bring them to you so am I right you you don't think you need the lean for say fire rescue for example I don't believe that the lean for fire rescue is going to be nearly as good as a lean for utilities okay the lean for utilities we have a superior lean in the State of Florida as you know I mean you know that we're up there before the attorneys get their cut we get our our uh money from the from the lean Okay so so I'll end there and I I probably have questions relative to the utility item that's next in regard to the link so I'll I'll hush up and say I'm I'm all in favor of a policy okay thank you thanks for putting it together Jeff um again and I don't know if margerie is part of it but thank you for leaving in some grace period for the village to reach out to the residents see if we work something out even I know we've done that in the past um work things out to catch them up so I appreciate that little grace period rather than just sending them straight to collections that's it um just one question I know in section four it said the building department also collects funds but payment is required uh before they'll issue building permit so that makes sense what about code enforcement if there's like violation fees but there's not it's not related to any permit that's going to be issued would would that fall under this or does Code Enforcement have their own process well the code enforcement brings them to for the special magistrate special magistrate then can Levy against them so I think if we need to and a special magistrate doesn't want it to deal with it we definitely would use this process what a special magistrate do I mean I know there is speci magistrate well I know and I know that process but say fees are being you know um uh incured for violations but they're not paid do do they lean does through a special magistrate does a property get lean or how how do they collect fees that are being um uh enforce on a property when there's not like a building permit associated with it and should it be part of this if it could it definitely can be part of this and and if the lean passes it can definitely be a lean one of the things with code enforcement I mean that I I know is just not a very strong lean so you can put a lean on someone's house and after so long they fall off um or if they sell them and they lose them we're down the pecking order far enough that you generally don't get much and it does cost a little bit to put a lean on so I mean those are things we can do and we can definitely include them in this I guess maybe staff just look into that and whatever you think is best I mean would you council do you agree yeah but got i' ask you this though if you think the special that a lean should be made uh that raises the question of should the lean be placed by Council or by the special magistrate and if it's the special magistrate although he it's a man although he uh currently will will impose the daily fines he may not know you know months down the line how much has not been paid so we'd have to work that into the equation yeah and I don't know I mean I would just best practices you know in relation to local municipalities nearby I would just make sure we're following that I'm just it just came to my mind because we're talking about collections like well that's another one it's not tied to a billing permit and it's code enforcement how I know it goes to special magistrate but if they're not paying the fees how do we recoup them I just I don't know maybe there is a process that I'm not unaware of which is very possible so again maybe just look into it and best practices you know nearby municipalities of the size and go from there answer if you want to reach out to him later when I I'm not going to he might not remember right I said when I first came on there was a property that had code issues and then ended up becoming I don't want to say it was a lean but the village ended up acquiring that property I don't know how it became that I don't know if that had to do with code enforcement it's probably a tax Lan yeah that's something no it was code enforcement but code enforcement you can look that later but that it did happen it was around like 2019 that's a foreclosure because we had a weird conversation it through the village it's it's guaranteed that one of the options is to file a suit in circuit court because I I've done it I mean I I would say generally your chances of collecting are far greater with a lean than collections so I think you got have that tool I mean in whether this is unfortunate or not and this is up to and I'm thinking about renters in this situation a landlord could end up stuck with a lean on their property which many people might be thinking well that's unfair but they have every right in a lease to make the tenant liable for that so it's uh I just saying in construction leans are unfortunately far too common I mean anybody can record a lean I can record a lean into your house tomorrow and there's no one to stop me um I just think collections don't really go all that far a Leen I don't know much about utility leans but I believe they're like a construction lean is you have 365 days to foreclose upon it or it goes away I think utility leans are out there I don't think that same rule applies so it's yeah they they stay up there basically you're going to collect stick to something yeah so Keith you don't have the answer now but just um we were on the first item still the accounts receivable policy and just brought up the code enforcement and we know that goes to special magistrate what their processes for collections do we need add something for that to this policy or is it independent sure um and thank you for allowing me to uh be a few minutes late um you didn't know I was just at swearing in of the new jino beach mayor first ever elected mayor in Juno Beach and it was important to me because I worked with their citizens group to do the charter Amendment for that so anyway the thing about code enforcement leans that they they are not they don't have any type of high priority they're first they're basically getting line so they're always going to be behind a mortgage or other like utility leans and the other problem you know with foreclosing on a code enforcement lean and you're not going to do it if it's Homestead Property uh in my experience more often than not there's a mortgage that that out values that's that's expensive and usually you're not going to want to step into that because if you foreclose you take whatever whatever comes with it um so no code Code Enforcement really the chapter 162 and which sets up the uniform code enforcement process contemplates foreclosure not really collections uh and and um but even then foreclosures uh if you actually find the property that has a lean that has value and there is no mortgage and it's not Homestead uh and it's something that you might actually want to acquire that that's it's like hitting double zero on a roulette wheel it it it's not impossible but it it's um it's a rare uh occurrence I don't know if that answered your question or not does the code just do those leans they on forever um or until 20 years 20 years okay 20 years you have if when we record a fine assessment order uh on a code enforcement case the statute allows that lean to exist for 20 years uh and then upon um sale it's recorded in the title and more often than not in my experience that's when those things tend to boil to the surface is when people want to sell and they have this Cloud on their title uh then they're interested in talking to the village and uh either paying it or working out some payment or or more often than not that's exactly how those play out uh Keith could you tell me if you agree with the following if if a renter is a uh culprit meaning they owe us money um and we put a lean on the property who is own meaning the property owner is not happy probably um but typically if there is a renter that person is not not supposed to have a homestead exemption correct if there's if it's a rental property it should not be Homestead that and so that person could find themselves in Double Jeopardy if we took them to court or fou a lean or something and discovered hey you didn't get your homestead you have a homestead but you're not entitled to it because your rentals were justay right if if they had a lawful Homestead Declaration on a rental property right now they're dealing with the lean foreclosure and they're dealing with the um Homestead issue that should not be there yeah yep that's I agree 100% okay what is there an like on the code leans is there a a flat fee or is it a percentage of whatever the lean amount is I mean if we say well yeah we want to include this in the policy because you never know if it it's $20 to to file it does it make sense but if it's no the statute and our code says that know once we record a lean it is in favor of the village so that lean basically belongs to this Council and you have the discretion and the authority to negotiate the satisfaction of that for anything between the face value down to zero that the cost of filing that though is that nominal Nal filing the Lan it's just filing a piece of paper on the public that was my was $100 and are we chasing our tail no it's not even that it's a couple bucks to whatever it cost a file two pages in the public records and you can recover attorney fees right if you had by way if we actually had to go to a foreclosure litigation scenario um it's not the most complicated litigation in the world it you know if if there's not a lot of push back it's a few thousand dollars to file the complaint and then get this either a default judgment or if they answer a summary judgment going uh if there's push back and you actually have to you do a little bit of Discovery and other it could get 10 to 10 to 12 but I I I can't unless it's really something super complex and I've never seen a code enforcement lean foreclosure that's really super complex I can't imagine it getting in terms of the attorney's fees it getting anywhere really beyond that MH okay so just to close a loop the um policy for collection of code violation fees is addressed elsewhere and does not need to be added to this I agree with that I think that it's it's adequately addressed in our code enforcement codes and chapter 162 state law great okay any other questions or comments Council any public comment okay thank you Jeff thank you moving on agenda item two discussion of ordinance amending the city code of ordinances section 74-82 to add a process and allow a lean on property for unpaid utility service charges through a magistrate good evening mayor vice mayor council members my name is Dennis Rick I'm with the utility department and I'll be presenting this for you today this is the discussion on the draft lean ordinance that we had during the last worksh shop and many of the questions and concerns that were brought up then were the focal points When developing this presentation present we have the present I was never given a presentation and is it in the back of the slides in the back in the back I can do that it's a uh I believe it's a memorandum from Margie with a copy of the ordinance page there it is um can we go to the second slide utility service area so this is just a brief snapshot of our service area we wanted to show you the amount of customer service by location in and out of the village boundaries we go to the next Slide the different types of accounts and actions this is active versus inactive accounts and the differences active accounts continue to ACC acrew bills while inactive accounts do not and are usually smaller dollar amounts during the collection efforts the collection agency does credit reporting the goal is compliance with paying the water bills next slide please this is our current process for deliquent account a delinquent account is account that is passed due for 90 days without payment 30 days without payments considered past due only payment P payment plans are offered throughout the process we switch to the next slide this is the current ordinance when delinquent accounts for more than 30 days may be foreclosed on by The Village attorney as provided by law that's what it states and that's what we're trying to change that to special magistrate next slide please the process for collection Remains the Same changes would be process being lean would go through a special magistrate utilizing the special magist that is in place for these types of hearing that the building department already uses for code enforcement so with your question in regards to code enforcement before I did code enforcement for a while and there is a Code Enforcement order which all of the administration fees are included and once that property sells that order is usually satisfied or the if it's in order for not say U Building without a permit is satisfied when they get a permit that's the way the orders are satisfied um next slide this is the delinquency process is the same as our current proc process this is showing you basically what was said in the previous slide 30 days P two 60 days notices are sent and five days after that termination of water service again payment plans are always offered so these cops are always called followed upon on um next slide this is still proposed mod modification notification going through a special magistrate hearing any fees regardless regarded to Administration time vill personal time posted and magistrate will be recuit when the order is done for leave next slide so this is to go along with Jeff's presentation the bill writeoffs are done annually and what we wrote off last year I know the question was presented we wrote off $9,000 roughly last year in utility bills that is that pretty typical um we we've done it for the past two years and we're catching up because they didn't do it previously okay so typically I would say less than that okay right on the inactive accounts all right next slide please so this would be the the legal status and enforcement of leans and we did check with legal because I know one of the questions by Tom was if we can lean properties outside boundaries and the answer is yes we can lean properties outside the boundaries next slide wanted to show you the account's receivable outstanding this is a part of the dashboard that we present monthly um so 90 days we have this is current about $1,988 and 180 is about $43,000 so we're trying to recruit that 180 days with this lead with the active accounts crewing bills and being that we just raised our rates and we're charging Capital Improvement charge that number continues to grow more than it would have in the past currently we have about three active accounts that we can lean for unpaid Water Services the largest amount owed being about $3,000 so we averagely Bill around um $640,000 a month this is about one a little less than 1% of that and that's it any questions thank you Council comments questions um uh yes thank you for the presentation um I noticed like the final stage the I think it's the uh the Final Act where it talks about inactive accounts yes and it says that somebody is notified they no longer live in the property or the tenant moved out right do we allow a new account to be set up in a tenant situation Say the Last Tenant that moved out owed you know 880 days worth it are we allowing the landlord to bring a new tenant in without satisfying that amount yes by law we have to we have to do that huh but the lean Remains the lean remains but we the lean would if the property was lean would remain on the owner and if the oh yeah I mean it does everybody know I mean the lean really doesn't become a huge issue for the owner until he or she tries to sell or Finance but allowing you know one deadbeat tenant after another doesn't seem to that just goes against municipalities I guess it's public policy do you have to provide utility we have to okay so I can please chime in a little bit on this the the the trick maybe Trick's not the best word but the and and I think I thought we had a policy that we require the property owner to open the water account see if if if the tenant is the entity that opens the water account and you have that bad tenant and they they leave we're not allowed by law to punish a new tenant because of the previous ten but if the account account is in the land in the property owner's name that's that's different so and I thought we had I had worked with utilities on this a couple years ago to make sure that we are only allowing uh owners to open the accounts not tenants for that very reason and you know I don't know as I sit here I thought we had addressed that issue previously but that that is the case but and that and and if that's the instance then it's still we don't have a mechanism to collect correct he can put another tenant in there and he just he's just a bad owner but at least we have it filed against if I lean against the tenant it's going against the property anyway or put a lean if we put a utility lean it's on the property if the owner of the property is the applicant and he doesn't pay because he didn't get paid by his tenant his leas says you pay me I pay the village that dead beat tenant moves out another one comes in so it's really there's no harm no foul the same thing goes on right we can't say you can't put a new tenant in there yeah but the lean is important you know it's not just when the property owner sells the property but I suspect it's also let's say Mr property owner uh there's money owed because of one of his renters never paid the bill well if he ever wants to refinance that mortgage right but the bank is going to say get rid of the link right so but it doesn't stop it doesn't preclude him from bringing in another tenant that may not that's right but if the utility account was in the landlord's name to begin with then I then I think you could shut it off correct if because it apply it would just be for the landlord the owner you would be penalizing the individual tenant at that point right we had discussed um putting water bills in owner names previously um we didn't come to a resolution I think that would be another um Keith I mean what's what's before you tonight for consideration this really is a process that affords legally sufficient process for recording that lean against the property and um we you know our current code is a little light on that and so we had this discussion a while ago the the mo the draft that's before you tonight is based on another jurisdictions code which I have used um and actually recorded leans against the properties in their water service area which are outside the municipal boundaries by the way so it's a process that I'm familiar with and that I know works okay um so most of the questions that I had about uh your policy and the ordinance it's either between my colleagues or myself it's they've already been answered um but I do have this question um so let's let's H let's fast forward to the future and say two months from now the Village Council has second out reading on the ordinance as presented okay will that automatically kick your office into uh uh notifying the property owners or whoever that um that that we may take a l well I don't know maybe you would start would you start the process of of processing a long-term uh delinquent accounts to the special magistrate to deal with it would Kickstart the process in order to get the notifications out and notify the special magistrate that we want to be on the docker for the next Hearing in order to present this yes okay so the last thing is I don't know what my colleagues are thinking but I I do remember we brought this up at the last workshop and that was that we consider making water accounts always be in the name of the property owner and so I'm in favor of doing that as part of the ordinance right Keith in your other municipalities of our size is is that a typical extra um process that they only the property owner can open the utilities yes okay I agree I think it's like that for power too I mean I don't I don't know I've never rented up here but like West Palm like cable power no it's not I take that FAS L but that definitely helps with your chances of getting it paid that's right because they can't rent it again because they can't provide utilities right so um I I think that's a good idea I think it's a strong a strong game plan yeah that would have to be addressed in a different ordinance though correct or would it something that could be added to this like section A I don't know no this really is the process for for securing a lean and and and honestly the the issue of uh tenant versus owner being the holder if if that's addressed in our code then we would amend that language is it do do you know off hand if no I don't believe it is I'm not even sure that that's something that's in our code that may just be an administrative policy that can be handled administratively we could handle administratively or you wanted to do a resolution or something to that effect I think is there a consensus that Council wants to look at that yes okay can you add a to our Workshop list ongoing list please okay council member Bradford anything else no sounds good I'm fine with moving forward with this to get you guys in the process started sooner sooner than later um I just have a question the hardship cases with the payment plan I absolutely am in favor of that and I'm glad we do that but is how do you determine a hardship is there like guidelines for that because where my head goes is like there should probably be consistency on determining hardship cases because if not could we get in a sticky situation where like well the village gave me this person uh you know payment plan but they won't give it to me and I just want to know if there's any kind of guidelines and determining well we reach out to to the customers who have had problems paying before we shut their water off and they explain to us um why they can't pay and most of the times everybody can get is offered a payment plan if you you have trouble paying a bill we'll offer you payment plan no no exclusions but there's only one per 12-month period and then your payment plan you have to pay the current bill along with the plan you know amount that's discussed within a certain time period so that has to be met as well okay so there's not really a way to define a hardship case just if someone requests it we do it yes some many requests we do and we also refer them them to our different Avenues of paying bills so we have different places they can contact to to get funds for utilties okay all right any other questions or comments any public comment okay great thank you Dennis thank you moving on agenda item three discussion on the final report of residential parking study conducted by Bowman Consulting Group so this was an item that was brought up during the budget process and we uh engage Bowman Consulting Group has completed a parking uh study uh with the existing residential developments within the village OFA um to quantify the current level of parking demand during the peak season within the mixed use District in R2 district and R3 um so we looked at Lighthouse Cove Blair housee West and seamist um that's request a residential parking accumulation analysis for Lighthouse C Blair House West and cist indicated demand parking ratio of 1.29 0.94 and 1.12 uh spaces respectively with the average parking rate of 1.12 Additionally the reviewed municip other Municipal codes off street parking ratios offer examples of municipalities in Palm Beach County with parking ratios ranging from one to three um so with that wanted to provide the study to council and if there's any additional Direction um open for questions I know Jay's here and he was part of this review process Council um you want you want to go um so if my memory serves me correct the um this came up at some point in time you know with the council relative to the adequacy or whatnot of our parking requirements for multifan and I think either the council requested or Jeremy on his own initiative went forward to have a study of it done in fact it's smart to do that because you really have to have some some reason as justification as to why you do what you do and um uh so I think my takeaway after reading the whole thing from the consultant is that um the uh I think I can I can conclude that on its face our requirement for two spaces per unit could be excessive slightly excessive but what I also took away from it was the examples of the other municipalities I liked the way that they delineated the different types of parking and they had different parking requirements for the different types of parking in my mind based on my own experience you have at least the following you have the property owners who own the units within a multi family thing you have their guests not just any person but a property owner's guest you have employees that need to park and you have service workers that need to come there from time to time you can range anywhere from merrymaids to coming to clean the house to Carpenters electricians plumbers seven air conditioning people so on and so forth um the uh uh one of the things I'd like you to know it's been my experience with high-end condo owners they don't like the service workers to park where they Park and they don't want them in fact I wrote in my notes they keep them out and what's the if the depending upon the structure of the parking requirements something like that ends up putting service workers on for their parking on the streets or SW in our case it could be so um I like the assigning of uh number of spaces per the different types of owners and um depending on how we do that or if we do that then I would possibly be willing to back off of the two parking spaces per owner requirement if we had other delineated parking uses with parking requirements for those spaces does the required parking spots per owner include guest spots so the guest spot separate from that there is no we don't have we are silent on guest I know this started to for all the new beach buildings coming in so even when I take in consideration because there's no way to really label a building on their type of residence and especially TOA I know many that live in some of those buildings they're all ages so I'd hate to say that one owner is only going to have one vehicle because there could be a couple like even a retired couple in there I think the two is enough but I get concerned on the guests and I think about the maids or pool guy or whatever it is coming in or a nurse if it's an elderly couple nurse might come in x amount of times a week to do something is there a way that we we can tell those buildings without being because it's PARTA of the HOA right where they have to park they can't park in a resident spot so if unit number 300 has two spots or if they have three spots that third one is reserved for their worker that shows up rather than guest spots no that would be tough to do on a per un basis but I think you could do like a kind of prated one like um for every 10 units you have to have one for service vehicles um which I think is the biggest Gap in the code we don't have a requirement for a number of guest spaces or service workers which you know I think anecdotally people have noticed is an issue at Seaglass where you know they're they're parking a Coral Cove from what what we're hearing and seeing um so you could you could do that you could say you know a certain portion or certain amount they have to have guest B for every x amount yeah or or you could Pro you know not many codes have this we talked to the parking consultant about it but having a certain like loading area too so like at at Seaglass where it is tight there's not really an area where an Amazon truck can pull up and comfortably leave the car for you know a minute can't do that anywhere anyways not that I support that but but um but you know so there you could probably also look at creating loading zones um I know some some planning directors have discretion to require loading zone on certain projects like in Palm Beach Gardens um that the director there has discretion where they can say Hey you know we think we think this project should have you know one or two loading zones because typical in in a commercial project but not not always in residential but but with the amount of deliveries and and vehicles coming to multif family now you know it's something to consider yeah I think that that you know the delivery model has changed since Co and probably prior to that as well but um so I think that is something as well as far as do so now what is you you mentioned Seaglass um how many units and how many spots do we anybody know top of their head with with that I have I have them written down so Seaglass is required 42 spaces they're providing 42 in the garage for the individual owners um I think there's two extra guest spaces in the garage and then there's the four at grade outside kind of near Beach Road for for for um right we would have just need they only would have needed two per our code right two per two per two per unit so they required yeah they required 42 total and they're providing uh 46 46 okay and think about it you have at least there's got to be at least a full-time one full-time staff there a property manager taking up a guess spot I think the loading area is is a great idea and that's for all deliveries because I just look at my front yard and the number of trucks that are coming and stopping and uh Lawn Service when they come how do where do those guys go I mean there's got to be Lawn Service some that they've got to be somewhere on site so I think that's a a good thing to look at you know as far as the service area um you know and also looking I would think that we would look at some type of guest spot requirement as well I know some some of these properties aren't fully homesteaded so it's their second and third homes and they're probably not here all at the same time but I think we still have to reserve for the fact that it could happen on Christmas and Easter and other religious holidays yeah and Mr Bradford's actually not wrong about a certain demographic that prefers their service providers or guests to not Park where they Park as owners so I would imagine if we did x amount of units requires x amount of guest spaces the developer or whoever's building that property could decide based on who they think their client their residents will be where they want to decide for where the guest parking is sure because I agree so I know in high-end properties that are even single family homes they have the service entrance and they have the regular entrance you know it's not uncommon for guest parking to be in the same uh underground area where the property owner parking is located um so so if that's the case just saying you have amount of guest parking spaces and this can be used by uh friends and family of the owners as well as service vehicles that can end up being problematic and it's not a class thing you know about I'm rich and you're poor it's not that it's that when these workers are pulling in I've heard these complaints many times when they're when they're in that area and you know somebody's got a you know $150,000 Maserati they don't appreciate it when the Hammers and the whatnot slam up against the car because that's I'm saying if you section it off that way it's not interfering but I would I didn't think a property owner would decide where they want to lay that out though yeah right and that's mean on the development on Beach Road that's what we've been told like oh we'll bring them in the garage and find a spot for them but there's technically no parking spots in there for them to park but they said they'd manage it um you know at se glass like they said they Park in Coral Cove but when you're looking at you know 250 and 300 are people going to park up home walk all like workers walk all the way down there but I mean it's kind of it stemed from that and then also we was it dequest at terorist there's another place where cars are getting towed all the time because there's not enough guest parking so they you know reached out to us about it um I was kind I was hoping that the consultant was going to be here just for some professional opinions but I mean not that you're not a professional maybe you have the anwen but um you know the sites that were studied do they they're older right so do they have more room that there are places someone can sneak in and park that's not technically a spot because now what we're seeing is you know the properties are being developed to the lot line you know I mean to what they can you know write to the setback and a lot of the con stuff that's been approved or concepts we've seen it's secure parking so there's not a space for guest or service or if there is it's like two or three so you know the development's changing how our building is changing and the parking situations are changing changing so it's great to have the study of these older buildings but how do they compare and what is a professional opinion to what's being built now because that's kind of what triggered this and I understand the need I think came with Keith we need to have a study because if we change anything it has to be legally defensible but of a study is not applicable to what's actually being built now what good is that um so I don't know if you have those answers if that's something you can talk to to Bowman I do think something like a loading loading requirement loading area which is very common in like downtown areas you have to because there's nowhere to go um do we you know uh manipulate the numbering to from just you know two per unit to having a guest parking requirement just to make sure we're not creating problems down the road that are going to come back to haunt us yeah and and to your question so two of the three that we looked at are are places where the most of the parking is at grade surface slots where conceivably those people can just kind of Park and leave their car for a few minutes um whereas I think seamist does have some garage parking um but it's a little bit more open than some of the the newer condos that are getting built um so really Seaglass is probably you know a good one to look at in terms of what you're you're talking about um but I don't think it's really you know fully built out yet I don't think all the residents are living there yet so it probably wasn't the best pick for this study um but to your point I think yeah I think it makes sense to to to do the load loading thing and the guest thing um and and probably ensure that they're actually at grade not and separated from the garage right because the garages tend to have controlled access um whereas you need to leave an area at grade where people can just go in and it's not secured and you can you can go in there at any time I think I don't know if I read it over the weekend so I feel like it maybe insinuated offside parking code could be considered was that a recommendation in there or am I imagining that we have an offsite code so somebody could provide offsite parking and and count that as part of their parking totals but they have to get they have to secure an agreement with with some offsite with some offsite over right so at Coral Cove they would have had to go to the county and have a formal agreement that says they could use x number of spaces which they don't so I think a loading zone would be very smart for us to consider um so even if any of these older buildings actually get bought out and rebuilt um so question when we look at the Blair housee West when they have a Yard Service come where do they park because I know all the front doors are right there along the inside of the building do they Park on Willow and then ride all their mowers over I think they park right here but that's a that's a driveway like they're parking in our rideway while they're servicing that property so they don't actually go into the property that's I've seen it there before the the lawn service uh trailer and so forth there I'm not maybe maybe that was an OD time so I'm just spitballing that because that building is not something like we would see today where it's it's not exactly built set back to set back and filling up every density level they can so I think including the loading zone would be very smart whether it's an Amazon truck UPS truck a food delivery truck because we all know a lot of people get their groceries delivered or the home chefs or the lawn service I think that'd be our best bet and then parking guest parking I think it should be and I think we talked about this but we needed a number on how to base it so let's if we're talking about Seaglass what was it 26 units 21 it sounds like yeah so there's 21 units and they're providing four so it's .19 so standardized um there's there's no like yeah set one that everyone uses um Jupiter is 02 guest spaces per unit Lake Parks is 0.25 West Palm Beach is one Green Acres is5 so there's variation all over the place well some of them they it changed based on that it was the bedrooms not the not the unit itself but based on the bedroom number that's kind of those are those are for the required number of spaces that you have to have and then guest spaces are usually above and beyond so those numbers I gave were just guests but there's variation between those so Palm Beach Gardens has very aggressive normal requirements for for for the units themselves and their guest spaces are a little bit lower because they have high for the regular units so there's there's like I said it's it's different on each one but ours our code is two two spots per unit no matter how many bedrooms correct right so that I mean that's another my concern with that and I don't know how we legally maybe look at it is um okay so a high-end beach condo it's going to have it could have four bedrooms but it might only have two you know a couple that's maybe in retirement or maybe it's their second home like we're talking about but let's say Paradise Park or Lighthouse Co and those some of them are three bedroom I think but it could be a family with a teenager and they're all driving so how do we accommodate all these parking spots just based on kind of the use those tend to work themselves out right so for every generally for every one you have like that you'll have an empty nester that's just you know a couple that has one car so that's kind of I think how our our numbers here show that they're so below that because we have a lot of empty nesters and maybe retirees or maybe a sing you know a single household person has one car so for every outlier that has a lot you're going to get skewed down by the other ones so they need to talk to their neighbors and start figure out who who's an empty nester never uses their second spot and I want to put my teenager there is that what you're saying you're going rent it yeah well then it typically Works itself out right if they're not especially if they're not assigned spaces right if if they just say everyone grab a space it it works itself out Jay did I did I understand you correctly when you were uh analyzing SE glass you said they had X number of units which came out to 1.9 uh unit guest spaces guest space Oh but that includes gas spaces no the 0.19 they have 0.1 n guas spaces per unit per unit yes 1.9 okay four total guest okay so U so I I know it's hard to separate the two but you know you have the unit owners and then all the other stuff whether it be you know loading zone guests employees service work what those are the two categories I'm looking at so it I know it's hard to separate the two but what do you think is and we can probably have the consultant weigh in on this too but do you think that if we're 2.0 today and we provide parking on all these other categories what do you think would be a fair number not holding you to it just to uh you know order M what do you think would be a better number or is two just fine and have everything else or should it be a little lower I mean the two seems to be working and I think it's only problematic to where you have to go above that when you're getting units where you have like in a college town or you have four college students that live together and everyone has a car or in West Palm there's some apartments where you have all the young professionals they go live together they each have their own car here we're not really seeing that type of product so I think the two number generally works here but I I think it helps to quantify the number of guest spaces because so I didn't get to go through all the other numbers so Seaglass has 0.19 per unit 300 Beach Road has 0.19 per unit 250 has 0.15 and then the reserve has. 27 so a little bit more the reserve so um it' be helpful to just standardize it if it's you know I think Lake Parks at 0.25 is pretty reasonable so if if I was making a recommendation right now I'd say keep the two make a 0.25 for guest spaces and then add a provision in that says you also have to provide some loading spaces and I'd write it to to have some discretion where council could say well rather than just having one loading zone you you might need two here because because the property is so tight and there's no other you know places like where where Lori spoke about where you could kind of leave a a you know grass cutter so do you feel like a guest spaces should be used for service workers good yeah I think so if there like I mean obviously like a lawn truck that's not going to work it's a a Hyman coming in you need yeah I like I like exactly what Jay said I think that's a very I think 0.25 on the I think we're that's pretty standard I think that's it's one per four yeah one per four and then we're already we already know we're exceeding what we already have with two per dwelling unit but I I I think if we're going to do a guest parking requirement I think the 0.25 is pretty spoton it's probably even more than we need well I just I want to keep keep in mind to this is for future planning this is like to be proactive because 5 10 15 years plus down the road there's going to be Redevelopment they they're likely I mean I don't know for sure but you know and we have a whole mixed use area and again they're going to be building out to the setback so it's going to be very different than what we see here it's just the nature of the Beast so like this is really for thinking to be proactive too is we don't have um a parking problem with you know the new development that potentially happen like said could be far down the road but we should you know have this in order I think the two I think we should stick for the two per unit and then for guest I think we should go higher than what we have now because in my opinion if a development comes in and it's very specific maybe it's geared towards retirees or doesn't have X amount of bedrooms doesn't plan on having young families in it um like a mixed juice area like a trendy area right they could ask Council hey this is what we are doing we probably don't need that many but it's harder to add it's easier to take away I I like the 025 but I would actually go little bit more than that I think you might need that's why I want to ask this question okay so Jay if you do the math out loud for seal glass tell me how many units they had and and so forth they have 21 units they're providing four guest spaces outside and at the 0.25 they'd have to provide six so under the new code they'd have to provide six and we ideally also have that loading zone thing which would I mean right now they've got a lot of service Vehicles there I think due to construction um but when that settles in hopefully you know one or two loading spaces would kind of resolve that issue as well I think that math sounded good but my only concern is this imagine we're in the height of season winter season and you know one of what four guests of the owners are there that leaves only two for service workers I mean yeah I mean and you do want to ideally plan for for the highest demand right so when you go to Publix they have a huge parking lot for Thanksgiving and Christmas right for that those Max days so you do want to plan for you know kind of peak demand um but you also don't don't want to just have a sea of asphalt out there that's not being used exactly yeah because a lot of times service workers might be there when you know the occupant of the property would be you know at work or school or whatever the case may be so there is there is some kind of naturally would be some kind of offset there and if and sorry to interrupt um one quick thing too you know if if there's if it's known that there's a challenging place to get a guest space in an affluent spot like Seaglass you would typically just have the the guests and visitors would start ubering or finding alternative ways to get there ideally um like on a in a case where there's an odd number of units for 21 and we have a 0.25 that gets us to five and a quarter we always round up correct okay just want to make sure that we round UPF good question it gives us a one more spot then so I guess ultimately it'd be nice to have Bowman consulting's professional opinion on if we wanted to change the code to accommodate you know loading area or more guest parking but really in the context of what's going to likely be built in the future versus what's here now I mean I don't know if that's something they could advise on and then Keith I got we Council was directed we needed this study in order to change the code so we had to have to make it defensible so I guess what's your opinion on if we do want to make changes based off the study that we have well I definitely think you want what you're asking for the the opinion of of Bowman um I mean if I read this report I didn't read it word for word but seemed to indicate at Quick Glance that there's plenty of parking under our current code uh if I read it correct at least in the sample proper properties that they used so um but on the other hand you know we don't we as this discussion has explained we don't provide for guest spaces we don't provide for loading areas um if you're going to start changing things I I actually had a question um would would there have to be some give and take between if you're going to require more parking do you have to provide for more lot coverage or less open space or less landscaped area I mean there's the end of the day every lot has a finite number of square feet to it and or do you allow an additional story for more parking like a two layer parking garage I there's I guess there's lots of ways to get to where you want to be but then you know I don't know what the best way is it seems like those those were all things that would have to be uh contemplated and looked at and either discarded as not practical or or kept on the table for more discussion so if we Sorry re no um if just hypothetically let's say we decided at the next council meeting we want to bump it up to three per dwelling unit and I mean we all know that parking restrictions can be a major deterrent for developers cuz like he said they only have so much room to do what they want to do if under that hypothetical what mechanism let's say a Seaglass came in would they have to seek some kind of is it a variance that they would need to to come into Council to receive to go say hey we can only do two we're requesting a variance to bring it down that's exactly what a variance is for variance is a request to develop the land contrary to the code because through no fault of the develop of the property owner they can't reasonably use the land without the variance so Ian that's a so I high level explanation and please let Jay jump in there on but that said though I believe our code does have a parking study allowance so if you think that the parking code is too onerous for your project you can go to a Bowman or kimley horn have them do the parking accumulation study and say you know your Cod is saying that we have to provide 50 spaces but we actually know based on this other project and data we have we only need 42 and if staff and council's comfortable with that you can actually grant them that's right we put that in the code uh not too long ago that that's a relatively new provision I thank you I forgot about that is that a parking waiver or still considered a variance well it's not a variance it's it's in the code it's a it's an Escape valve that allows someone to provide the council and and the Community Development staff with evidence that establishes in this particular scenario and our particular property and our particular use we only need this this much parking and that would be based on a professional study that they would have to get and present yeah would it still be at our discretion at the end of the day I've seen them yeah I've seen people reject them and and say we don't believe the methodology is correct you you're saying 42 we think it should be 46 so um there Council still has some discretion there yeah and it's not an it's not a formal waiver of variance either it's a little bit less legally okay CU it seems like in the last my experience up sitting up here last year um the issues that have come before us or chatter when somebody's coming with conceptual is you know how do we adequately utilize the space that we have uh and we have some things that we're going to be discussing in the coming meeting or two which are going to potentially not so much impact the space or the size but maybe the the math of the financing of it uh in different ways around that so I think we need to be aware when we do this and say we're now requiring six more spots on a on and somebody in their mind who may be looking at something says well I only needed 22 or 44 spots and now I need 30 spots you know we're now we star to tighten the grip on the the applicant and their ability to um you know fully utilize you know develop that property you know we're requiring more so I think you know that's a good what what Mr Davis said is a great thing to chew on you know what can we do since we're now telling them you still have to fit you all this you know the 10 PBS in the perbal 5B box you know how do we do it now you have to do 11 PBS into the 5 pound box so I think we just need to be aware and we need to be thinking of that as we move forward on some of these things because one it's a domino effect you know now well where do we put those spots because now it's not economically feasible to do this project so would this apply like let's say somebody who's in for a permit right now and this we move forward with this would this apply retroactively to them or it's too late to apply it to 300 or 250 or or Reserve okay um I think anything's that submitted if a site if a site plan is submitted it's vested with the current codes isn't that right always no matter what it is and we also have um along with with the process that was just described we also contemplate the ability to if it's available uh off-site parking shared parking agreements um and on street parking those are all Alternatives that we have in our code and not you know they may not all be applicable to every property but um so we actually have all of these flexibilities and there much more they're not variances it's not a a heavy lift if if it's available and and the study supports it it it it can be it can provide relief okay I think I mean I the intent and I'm sure everyone would agree is not to have a sea of parking or excess parking it's to make sure we have enough I mean everyone knows like excess parking is bad right it's more impervious area it's just it's bad you want to avoid it but yeah just in light of what we've been seeing and secured parking where there isn't a place for someone to just kind of like sneak in and temporary Park like that's just the reserve will be interesting when that's done because I know I think they have little driveways right in the front but it's pretty tight through there regardless so that's going to be interesting to see how that works out with you know maintenance lands I can't remember how many guest spots they have they have 19 69 units and 19 guest spaces yeah that'll be really interesting um I'm sorry which devel Reserve oh the Reser but they also have two two car garages two car garages with and then can two cars fit in front of the um driveway I can't remember but then it's like you're doing the car Shuffle so we you know I see that single family homes right they have a big enough driveway but because of the car Shuffle someone parks and Street anyways because I mean it's a everyone knows that it's just life so but I don't is there enough room for two cars in front of those garages I am not sure off to my yeah so it'll be interesting when that's done to see you know if there's any issues there could be case study maybe so yeah so their visitors at like 27 so yeah so that's where the 0.25 number I think makes some sense well if you guys want we can bring back Jeremy and I talked about bringing back Natalia who did the study um we could probably bring back more detailed examples of what other places do and some examples of how we could draft a code um at another meeting okay you know another thing is you can if you do a developers agreement with a project you can take certain delineated places like uh what' you call it for Amazon uh uh the loading zone loading zones and guest parking you can do things like say you could you can put this the the paint lines on this uh parallel type space and if the guests get there first Mr Amazon can't use it in other words there not enough room for him to be in there but and then the other thing is you can do a developers agreement that says that that uh the guest spaces may be allocated to uh service workers with the approval of the property manager things like that give you more wiggle room true yeah yeah construction okay so we'll um re add this back to the workshop ongoing Workshop list and we'll we revisit it any public comment is underneath pedestal okay all right I'm going to move on agenda item four discussion on brick donation policy for remembrance Park and Village Hall Memorial Jeremy yep as a condition of approval for the site plan of remembrance Park staff was directed to put together a brick donation policy and included location for the bricks to be installed the current the proposed uh policy can be used um to guide the memorial bricks here at Village Hall Memorial we do not have a policy for that either so uh the purpose of this Memorial break program is to honor the memorial of the loved ones who have served in our country for our country and in the armed forces or a public servant role and support the maintenance of the bricks and surrounding areas the memorial bricks would be installed uh in a designated location in R Park that was on the site plan um near the flag the cost of each Memorial brick is $250 which includes a purchase engraving uh insulation and maintenance of the brick path um donor will receive a confirmation letter certificate of appreciation for the donation they will also um be asked to sign a waiver um so attached to this agenda item is the policy waver um and Confirmation appreciation letter U for any additional Direction Council has thank you Council uh no real qu I mean I think it's great that we're we're we will have a policy for this um this is just a very uh nichy question here but let's say I don't have any uh let's say I don't have any veterans in my family but I wanted to do like a support the troops brick or something or somebody wanted to do that is this is it written in a way that is specifically like each brick is going to be for a particular individual who is a no okay not necessarily well I don't really have any questions I think it's I think it's great um you know it's our it says that we're memory of loved ones who have served our country and AR armed forces or in a public servant role is that Loosely defined so I I could put the definition there but just a quick you know I guess chat gbt a public service a government official or employee who works for Citizens and the government who de develops and delivers public programs and services so I can get you a Breck um how many bricks I mean I might have missed it how many bricks do we have in our our area area for this do we know so we have 472 Square ft that's lined out Chad gbt tells me that's 2,116 bricks that can be placed out there man and how many how many sorry 2,000 let me make sure I'm quoting you the right number now that you're asking me specifically CH GB it works out 2,115 brick pavers not two 2,116 so how many how many do we have in the um do we know what we have out available in front of here that's a nice number right there unless anybody knows I'm just looking over maybe they have an idea how many breaks are out there any the 911 but we're not Memorial yeah yes I'm amazed just just by way of a little bit of History guys I don't know if all of you are aware at one point when the fountain was redone the cap of the fountain that's actually the mark from the old the previous Village Hall was used there the residents were given the option to have their names in gra just one line right so each wedge for lack of a better way to call it you could have I believe up to six lines right and we're thinking boy we'll have a lineup to fill this Fountain I don't think they're 10 taken out there and it was open it didn't have to be a vet and it didn't have to you know we had a Watkins family whatever yeah and it was barely used wow so that's you think it's going to be Gang Busters it doesn't usually happen yeah that's that's what I wanted to ask with this um knowing that we'll have a lot of bricks available and I know people that well are two historians that are here um you know it's remembrance Park can we open it up or we is there what's the downside of opening it up to people that are just when I move out of here I might want to say in honor of you know my however 50 years in this Village or something I want to memorialize that I mean can we open it up Beyond military and public servant or is that against what the the the Genesis was back in 2010 or 2011 when we bought it well and and the bricks here too they're for anyone you don't have to be um a veteran or public servant we don't have any current policy for the bricks in front Okay so here it can be anything just wanted to add that but I would suggest that maybe I mean I don't if we are going to open up to anything maybe we need to put together a policy for for that like just to I mean or just if you guys want we can let anybody and everybody come and put a brick there I mean it doesn't yeah I don't I don't want to to denigrate the you know the original purpose of this but it just seems like 2,000 bricks or even a thousand bricks if we double them in size seems like a lot that will go unfunded and it's just an opportunity for us which leads you know to to fund more of the the this leads me to my next Point um it was shared with me some of our neighboring municipalities and their price per brick um we seem to be on the high side um and I'm just wondering any thought to dropping the price because I think some people at a price point of $250 might say uh you know I'm not sure I want to do that and then so if we have 250 and limited to public servant and veterans are we missing an opportunity to capture some other ones well I can share with you where we got that number from the people we use they Quote us $150 um to put in the brick to engrave it put it in buy it all that so we threw in another $100 for maintenance over time over a period of time and that you know the administrative cost and you know staff time and that's going to take so that's where we got 250 so okay you know if we can lower it you know it's just what what cost will be uh taking in okay I know I mean there's so knowing we have a ton of bricks out here that AR full that aren't full open to anyone and you know if we want to keep remembrance Park the original intent andan there's nothing to say we can't just reduce the pay for space nope that might just be another option Savers will be put in regardless you know so if we reduce that down to 250 square ft we can always add later I mean it's there's not going to be like a whole bunch of concrete around it it's going to be grass so I mean it might be might be good to reduce it down um this is a pretty big I mean there's no Dimensions here but it's a pretty decent sized area so if we could just GL that in it looks like it's connectivity to the different paths and sidewalks maybe or I don't know if it needs to connect both ways but I that area could be looked at and just yeah my my comment wasn't driven towards the the size of the space it was more how can we better utilize it um but by encouraging more people to to do it if we limit it to and again if that's against the original intent um as well before my time I I just had rhetorical questions and they've been touched on mine were like how do we determine who is a veteran what is the definition of a public servant um and then uh does any of this really matter at all which goes to Pat Uh so I mean I it it doesn't matter to me how many who's allowed to do it um it it could well end up being that is underutilized in terms of its dedicated space but there should be the dedicated space where it will be done if it will be done my only substantive question is I mean the the the policy has that statement in there and I'm just paraphrasing you know um originating uh no organization managing the bricks I mean is that something just uh Jeremy that you anticipate or that you just did it there is in the event it may turn out that way in the future ask the question one more time I'm sorry well there's a there's a line in there that makes reference to any organization that uh yeah man that manages the memorial brick program I think that's who would be making the bricks like if someone had like a crazy improper statement that they wanted to put in there it's just saying that they have the discretion to reject it I would love Keith to advise on that because I know I've read case studies that Keith has provided to league on stuff like that with with municipalities getting in trouble of rejecting something and freedom of speech and all that that stuff so I don't know Keith has any input there Keith you'll just have to read every one to mind is personally approve um I don't know if you were at the league meeting I I I recently reported on a case that dealt with government speech in the context of a municipality that put on a Memorial Day art show and they invited artists to submit their works and one of the works was determined to be offensive by the municipality so they refused to display it and that went through the obvious litigation but the courts ruled on the side of the municipality that that was government speech and just because of private person is saying it they were doing it on behalf of the government the government can control what the government says uh this seems to be um a similar scenario yeah I would just make sure the language is sufficient yep for what you just said y yep if it's not already so I'm fairly certain I know the answer this but no way is the village relying on this income for the part the money's already there this would just be additional funds to help build the park well the funds will just go toward the maintenance of the bricks the future we're only talking about $100 per brick so it those go into a separate fund and from time to time if we need to pressure wash it or you know do put some sand in between the brakes or whatever we need to do that's what it'll go toward but that for 72 ft of brick is going to be there no matter what it's either going to have a lot of bricks with u statements on it or they want yeah be similar to what we have out there we have breaks that's nice I mean doesn't take away it's pretty nice out there with the fountain just because they're don't have any names on doesn't make it any less nicer so I don't I don't think it'll be a huge issue but okay so I'm not opposed to whether it's a veteran or a remembrance of someone who's lived here forever ever um as we talking about that I mean I think about my 93-year-old neighbor who literally bought her house brand new when it was built here and has been here over 50 years and it'd be nice to give her family her family is a big part of the Town back then um be nice to give her a Breck so maybe though for veterans we just put them on this side family members on this side or whoever there's also does the Brick Company do the stamp with whatever military branch they were at yeah so that way that brick stands out that it's a veteran it would have like you know the branch they're limited to you know a certain space and me it's 4 by eight so mean the person choose making the brick could choose that or not so I mean for my family alone it would be like 13 military bricks I mean that's a little heavy at 250 just sold 13 of them 250 a pop I don't I don't know I'm not against it to I'm just being funny about it I don't know if it's I don't know if you can say this part's veterans and this parts are well that's why I saying even if we did the Stamp if it's an option to stamp it yeah you can't it gives that brick a little way to stand out as you're walking by and you have the military branch stamp you kind of oh that was a veteran I'm not I'm not opposed to it it's just the first come first sered would say well this first one might be a veteran this one might be a public this might be John Doe he didn't he not either one so that's just kind of how it's going to go I can admit I was I'm telling at least that way it's an option I'm not saying it has to go one side together I'm just trying to think how do we include them all yeah you can just put the stamp on I would put the stamp on you mentioned having a resident longtime resident what's the cut off because I'm going to have to change the policy before we bring it like is it 20 years is it 10 is it 6 months like what you said having a resident having a brick why you got to complicate well nothing in unless I missed it nothing in here says a brick hased B before it they have to be a resident or did I miss that mm it doesn't cuz the the military veteran doesn't NE have to be originally from taquesta but wait a second wait a second don't we want taquesta residents to be the only ones that can request it you get and so let's say I have a request but I want to name my father who by the way retired as a colonel in the United States Army so would I be allowed to do that to honor my father I am a resident I'm I'm not saying we should or shouldn't I'm just throwing it out there to make sure we all clarify clarify yeah yeah I mean I don't to me I think it's built for remembrance of somebody who served not necessarily inesta so if you Tom Bradford but I mean I would think it has to be tied toqua somehow either you the resident or or the person serving right but the way her example was somebody who lived here for 50 years we want to do a memorial like in my opinion this was supposed to be for somebody who has served um either as a public servant or the military in that scenario that person maybe hasn't served but they've been here a long time so maybe it is a good thing that we include them but what's the cut off I say just keep it simple just keep it open if if a resident wants to buy a brick for a loved one we let him do it is there any public comment we can take that might help us finalize this okay so I'm going to read from the minutes of the October 13 2011 council meeting and I quote quote member humd suggested adding the word remembrance to manager kuso's initial suggestion of a Veterans Park making it a Veterans Memorial remembrance Park he offered to get military groups involved to obtain a small statue or something similar to the park vice mayor um Arena suggested remembrance Park end quote the word veterans was dropped from the park name it was never meant by the how I'm reading the minutes from the 2011 to be any kind of designated Veterans Park the proposed policy restricts the Vic Pro the Vic brick program you already discussed this how are you ever going to justify a public servant role am I a public servant am I but I never served served in Peace Corp does that count the size of the brick is not indicated there's two sizes of bricks so I'm a dosent at the Lighthouse we have a whole walkway we have a whole thing we have a designated area for veterans we have other designated areas our cost according to my sources is at White House is 20 bucks of brick now they have the brick all laid so what they're doing is another a brick gets popped and that brick gets in so all they're paying for is engraving and according to Josh it's $20 now I can I can go back to him and ask that and I asked him can we dub tail on that palcy and he said yeah we didn't have a problem with that okay so then I went around in my car and the village of North Palm has a book program they're um they do have a you can buy a brick and it can be in four different plot you can buy a brick for their pool their cost for the brick is 115 they do have a Veterans Park it's behind the library um and they don't say online that it's restricted but it probably is and what they do on the the bricks and we do this at Lighthouse is there's a little uh Crest like for Army Navy and it just sits in the corner okay the town of Jupiter has a whole Veterans Park huge veteran Parks very nice of all that they have 175 bricks I mean I didn't know 2,000 bricks that is I I have to to really just put my teeth back in my mouth on this one if you even have 175 people which I don't think we'll probably get that's going to look terrible in 2000 bricks because you you unless what they did in Jupiter was they made they made them all together all these veterans and then they cemented them in so I think I'm you know it's probably done I think this whole thing needs to be rethink rethought really and some research be done about what other municipalities are doing and how it looks take a look at these Parks um but to restrict it to Veterans is just that's just insane it it it is a logistical problem and it's a remembrance Park it's not a Veterans Park so thank you and I'm certainly willing to work with anybody on this program I me right just just hearing that and I I mean I remember looking at the area when we did the site plan and I thought it it was large maybe we just do like a circle of bricks around the flag or something and just reduce like you said we could if it expands we could grow but why why have all the bricks and maintain all the bricks and if the intent of the bricks might not be realized like start start smaller do a nice Circle I don't know if that's a bench there that's in that pathway but is that you know we could relocate that bench somewhere maybe it's not even needed put it closer to like the circle around the flag so someone can sit there I don't know I think that I do think it probably needs relooked at it's funny when I saw what is it 472 square feet I thought immediately that was too small you know it's about the size of a master bedroom SU I mean it's like um but I I get it but one of the I it's get it's starting to get sketchier as time goes by the are we are we comparing Apples to Apples I mean I think I heard Jeremy say our bricks are 4 by8 well that that's more like a tile that's about that thick those isn't it no it's a regular brick it's a brick by 2 and 3 2 and 38 yeah it's like you put your okay all right so I guess my well I guess I'm not supposed to ask the audience question so the question is is North Palm Beach using a you know brick bricks or they using the 4 by8 using brick bricks and you come back up the podum it's fine they're all using Bri works like you would put in a fireplace um and the only one that that does that uses those plus another one lighthouse has an 8 by8 and that's $225 Lighthouse is 100 bucks for a regular brick that's the the regular bck and then the 8 by8 is 225 and then if you buy a membership at a certain level you get a brick free okay so size of the brick or the brick is determined as to how many bricks there's going to be basically you know I'm assuming that normally if you have a brick walk it's a regular brick you know it's yeah like what they have at least ped width size I think um I don't does Juno jino Beach has that path around the lake don't they have bricks or some don't they around there and they have a courtyard as well that have engraved I think I mean to close a loop on this I think do we maybe some more research mhm and maybe revisit the design to make sure it's not overboard sure what does council think does that I'm I'm fine with that but does that put us back does that delay the beginning does this have to be in place prior to the the beginning of the construction of the park uh I don't think so I mean I think we can do a do a site plan um change administratively because it's on a minor scale um so um we'll have to engage the engineer again in and and get him to draw something out differently I agree just rethink it a littleit can staff please talk to Mrs yeah I could I could see I could see it being more or less a crescent shape around the area where the flag is and yeah where the benches are you know but however you want to do it it's fine with me I had to say don't overthink it keep it that's true I agree with that I mean second me put more government on this if it comes if I could just make a suggestion we can put place the papers in have a paper donation program and then just replace papers as needed when somebody wants to make a donation the the budgetary cost that we gave for the pavers is for the purchase of the pavers the engraving and the maintenance we spend about $4 to $8,000 a year just restructuring and redoing the pavers around here because papers settle well that's what I'm saying so there's there's a maintenance cost to installing papers personally I would love to take out all the papers oned drive it's a constant maintenance issue every year $48,000 repairing papers well that's what I was insinuating why because these papers weren't part of the original site plan they were added in so I'm like why are we creating more maintenance if it's maybe not necessary right so that's one say like reduce the scale of the pavers cuz like you said they're maintenance so every year and that that connection that path is not needed it was never produce it so it's there but it's not as excessive yeah what you have our moles that borrow underground Y and every year you see the papers settle and year you have to fix them to become a trip Hazard okay all right those molds got your marching orders all right ready to move on okay thank you Doug and Mara for all the input and Pat all right agenda item five discussion on Council man manager form of government legal update and upcoming Village Council reorganization jery or Keith maybe want thank you mayor uh Council as uh you're all aware on next Thursday you will be reorganizing and under our current Charter um you remember we had a um a very robust Charter review a few years ago and uh number of items were up ated and a number of them the voters did not accept so we still are a council uh with twoyear terms uh no term limits and annual you know we are what I would call a pure Council manager form of government each of you is elected at large um and then you appoint every year when you reorganize a mayor and a vice mayor to serve for a one-ear term so that is what we will be doing um in addition to swearing in and uh there may be I think there's some other board appointments but um just wanted to remind you um the process under Section 2.06 of the charter you'll appoint one of your members to be the mayor and another to be the vice mayor um there's procedurally two ways to do that you somebody can make a motion to appoint somebody to be the mayor and then if it's a motion as with um any motion there would need to be a second if there's a motion in a second it would be handled like any other motion you would ask for discussion and then call the question and vote uh if if the motion passed then that person would be the mayor and we'd move on to the vice mayor the other process is to uh ask for nominations so you could uh say I I nomin Nate this person to be the mayor a nomination does not require a second um typically would ask the person nominated if they accept the nomination but doesn't require a second what but what does happen is that we would also ask if there are any other nominations so you could have more than one nomination and if if there's only one nomination then and the person accepted um vote on that and that would be that and that person would be the mayor if there's more than one nomination then we would um I suppose you would want to hear from each of the nominees and then um call for a vote in the order that the nominations were made so first there' be a vote on the first nominee and then um if a majority of you voted for that nominee that that would take care of it then we would have to vote on the second nominee if if the first nominee did not get the majority then we would vote on the second nominee so two similar processes that get you to the same place slightly different way in my 22 years eight times out of 10 the way I see this unfold is someone will say I nominate such and such a person and then somebody will second the nomination and then it gets treated like a motion and voted on so just it usually doesn't exactly correct um but you know at the end of the day as long as the will of the council is um is is what is carried forward that that that's really the goal um but I I would ask you to keep that in mind either somebody can make a motion or we can have a slate of nominations and then we will take it that way and it's the same process for the mayor and the vice mayor um so you know after the swearing in um that will be the first order of business and um that's how that would um that's how that would go I don't know if if the council wants to discuss that topic amongst yourselves and in the past you've taking this opportunity to speak about who about the issue of you your thoughts on who should be mayor who should be vice mayor you certainly don't have to do that um it sometimes it's happened in the past times not so I I have U I don't have a dog in the fight because I won't be part of that process but I have a something for you all to think about it's been my experience that the nomination process that you described Keith is a better process because the other primary one it it ends up being erased to make the motion yes and so it that's not necessarily a fair way to do it the nomination process allows anybody at any time when the mayor calls for the vote they can make every you have five nominations you could and that that just seems fair and it looks silly when they're like jumping to grab the mic and say I want to speak first thought that's my thoughts I have no dog in the fight I won't be here but this just what I've observed for 40 years no to your point I've seen that happen as well so I understand exactly what you're saying um and you know there are procedural subtleties but again you know for me as long as everyone has an opportunity to say what they believe is the right way to go and the at the end of the day the will of the council is is what is is effectuated U that will make me happy that that's my goal um I'd like to see a clean procedure um but it's yours and um but that being said I agree Tom I've seen that race to the microphone to make the motion as well uh so I understand exactly what you're saying sounds exciting so fun every year can I can I say though that this Council currently sitting including UT Tom has been great and I didn't say at last meeting because I said it wasn't technically your last meeting but today is your last meeting so thank you well thank you thank you all thank you for your wise wisdom but you're not allowed to leave our meeting so you still have to out there somewhere those are usual but to our staff too no matter how how we reorganize each year for me in my experience the communication from staff is getting better and better and Jeremy even on you as a manager it's getting better and better every year all the updates for a legislative session and then us doing our own part on our own time keeping up with that stuff um so that's that's been important for me each time we get new Council and our staff encourages them including the new Council elect as well so that way they come and like hit the ground running I appreciate all that for everyone that's put that effort in thank you well I thank you Tom I've been honored to to be up here for the last year and learn from each and every person in this room and more importantly the ones that sit out there and i' i' I've I've again I've been honored to serve and I've done my best to be prepared and U you know I will say that if somebody wants to um consider me as in any type of leadership mayor or vice mayor I'd be honored to consider be honored to to go down that path so I will throw that out there any any last words to no no not right now no before you have to go back to three minutes I hate that three [Music] minutes no I'm fine I I do appreciate everything you guys have done for me enjoyed it and uh look forward to going back to a civilian SL advisor Ro you're amazing LGC has been an honor to serve as the mayor for the past years and and truly I'm to this day always humbled by it as well and I uh really I think hopefully you guys see I you know put my absolute best effort and best foot forward always on behalf of the council so um at the council's pleasure I'd be Happ happy to serve in any leadership role again that's it any public comment all right well the only other um other um item that I would throw out there for you um I have submitted my annual legal Update Memo which covers Sunshine Law public records and ethical issues that apply to your service if you would like a presentation on that I'm happy to give that to you at this time if um you prefer to you know review the memo call me with any questions on um in in in the spirit of wrapping this Workshop up I'm happy to do whatever the council would like is this the the final final one you know sometimes you it says final but sometimes you issue a draft but then it becomes it's not final until no no no I'm not talking about my legislative update I'm talking about My Sunshine Law Public Record ethics the one on the agenda yeah memo yeah I don't think talk about answer your question to answer your question that is the interim memo because the governor is still right signing things or not signing things so we'll update that uh probably next month uh once everything has gotten across the governor's desk okay any questions on the council procedures no no no I I found it to be you know right on line right in line with the uh Council manager form of government as well well as Florida law so he was SP I like the only change was form six I saw that update the same every year that that is you are form six filers and I'm you know I'm happy to talk about that I know we've we have beaten that one to death over the last few months but if you'd like to kick it some more I'm happy to happy to do that for you I I remember last year that was in our like initial folder pack it was the memo and it's super helpful so I think we just need to really encourage in this case um future council member French I will tell you you have to do that online now it's not a it has to be filled out uh through the commission on ethics website and they have a portal yes for and form one for form one filers but I I went ahead and tried it for myself and it's not difficult it actually try if if and I'm sure our clerk's office has submitted the correct information one of my towns they put me as mayor and counsel and they had me as a form six Filer and I had to get that corrected but once the information is correct in there the the the system really pushes you in the right direction you have to create your account with a username and a website um but then uh it should populate with every form you've ever filled out in the past uh and it should push you in the direction that you need to go and kind of follow the prompts and the only thing I'd say on that is if you kind of hit a roadblock you're not sure um the commission on ethics folks have in my experience been extremely helpful in in in answering questions on the particulars of of any uh particular line item on that form so I would encourage you to call them do we have a deadline to to July 1 July yep well for you yeah so for you though Tom you'll be stepping off I think you have 60 days to file form six F got pass you have a different form since you're stepping off and not stepping got pass income tax oh but but wait a minute but so yeah um no I don't think as EAC members you don't you're not even form one filer so yeah so you're stepping away from it so you have to file form 6f and I know we sent you an email on that but I'll double check I thought it was 60 days after you step off but I I I'll I'll look and remind you CL our clerk's office can help I know I had some questions and Lori has a contact there and she got answer within like 30 minutes so yeah yeah I took an online course about form six and um you know it's just the timing is not good for it but it's there I have to do it I'm Not Afraid okay all right with that motion to adjourn so moved second all in favor B