all right good evening everyone it's 6 PM I'd like to call the meeting to order it is June 3rd 2024 and it is our Workshop meeting Lori can I get roll call Mayor Young here vice mayor Sor here council member Brandon council member painter here council member French here and the first item on the agenda tonight is a follow-up discussion on the residential parking study yeah thank you mayor um so back in the budget process we approved for a parking study uh to be done and the uh we targeted three different residential multif family residential areas I can't remember which exactly month we brought that back to council for a discussion in a workshop format as part of that we discussed uh loading zones and maybe some guest parking um there were some recommendations I have a quick slide just to just to talk about those um the first part of this is the commercial and the office uses are already part of our code we already require those there's no changes to that um what what really LED this conversation was the multif family residential and so what we're recommending is um at least one space in the multif family residential for loading currently we do not have that in our code as you guys know with Amazon and uh you know construction other stuff I think it's it's important that we have that in there um does have to meet the requirements of this meaning it has to be on site parking along the rideway we can't do that and then parking on other properties and so if there's a variance that's required it it would have to make sure it doesn't meet it doesn't have those those three items so it couldn't be a disruption to the parking on site and rideway and other properties the other part of the uh that's teed up for discussion will be the uh guest parking uh right currently our code um is pretty is silent to it in the m multi family but um the guest parking the draft recommendations single fames two spaces uh duplex two spaces per dwelling unit the multif family we're recommending two spaces per dwelling unit and a quarter uh guest space per dwelling unit um shall be open to public and not located inside the parking garage if there is one um and so those are the two the two main topics for discussion for you guys tonight um uh I'll do my best to answer any questions but Trent from Bowman Group is is here or Bowman Company is here and he uh helped develop us help develop the code with with our staff and so um he can answer some questions about um how we got here great Council um just have one quick question I'm sure I'll come up with some others thank you first of all what is the significance of the not in the parking garage is it because they're usually secured or the height right so the village actually has a a development that currently where all of the parking is behind garage doors that require residents to access so there's physically no way for the guests to even even get to it if there were guest parking so this isn't talking about like is this referring to like a parking garage or like a garage any garage that would have uh doors or gates to prevent the public from accessing it okay I'm sure I'll come up with something else but I'm good for now so should that be maybe like part and just sorry not just to stay on subject before we move something else um should possibly stay behind a secure gate too because we could have a condition where it's not maybe a parking garage but there's like security gates that people can't get through so I don't if maybe just to something more General to Encompass any kind of parking that um restrict yeah thank you good good get two words there yeah we can work with staff to come up with the wording that allows the public to get there but can also have security that you that you're talking about so it could be a gate but it would have to be a man gate or some some way for uh guests to be able to get through that security but the parking would I'm just trying to understand because I miss part of that question the parking would still be yeah yeah yeah but the parking would still be just for the the resident parking meaning like the guest resident you're not talking about opening that parking up to the to the public so maybe the language could just be on private property right instead of restricted access you're saying private property right because I mean if you're starting to is every resident's going to have a gate then is I mean that's what you'd be crying because every every residents would have to have guests parking so you'd have to I guess I'm I'm just trying to understand it maybe I'm looking at it wrong I guess I'm just I'm visualizing like a big m family development that has just one big parking garage that serves the whole property mhm and in many cases they do throw visitor in there but if may maybe the key is to word it just um to make sure that the general public can access the guest space okay yeah okay yeah because I mean that this kind of came up on beach Rog we have C last and then there's two more being built that they have like two or three guest uh spots but then everything else is behind secure and so you know by their word they're saying oh we'll organize it and deal with it but like who's to know for sure that's going to happen so I want to be careful how we word it that it doesn't allow them to tell us that they'll manage it um absolutely you know we don't know after the fact what's going to happen there was also one other I think recommendation in your staff report that I I I liked um and you guys can can discuss it but also besides the one um loading unloading um that also there's some language in there that allows for the the staff to make additional recommendations to council to consider so that way it gives us a little bit of te so he you know like one spot for 60 units is much different than one spot for 330 so if we feel like there's a need based on you know whatever the particular particular development is we can make some additional recommendations to council and that gives us in that code to do that so we'd like to make that recommendation as well to insert into that code and correct me on that if I'm wrong it looked like we were going towards the higher end of guest spaces and spaces in general um than some of the other municipalities and that's what I liked about this is that we kind of round it up let's say um but but you're saying I didn't so didn't completely understand what you're saying if there was 300 600 it would have fluctuated with um the formula for the guest parking yes it's going to fluctuate I was talking about like the loading zone too is that um I think it was this slide and um require additional loading spaces multif family residential during the site plan we can make additional so that way because I think the guest paring going to take care of itself depending on the size but maybe one loading zone for 330 units may not be may not be enough that you know if staff sees something in there we can make additional recommendation and allow us in the code to do that makesense I think the the difference is the code proposed code here they would have to get a variance this alternate recommendation which is not what we have written here is it's up to you know staff recommendation council discretion right yeah is there a formula for that that would make it more even keeled where it wasn't coming back in front of council each time or do we want that to come back for the loading zone yeah well loading zone through the site plan process you're going to see that so it comes to you anyways and so when we come with site plan staff may recommend you know three loading spaces um to you guys and you guys would approve that in the site plan or or if the developer goes we didn't want three we only wanted you know we only agreed to two you guys will make that determination so you guys see that in the site plan process okay thank you and we'll you know we're we'll obviously have a lot of conversation with a developer prior to just showing up and US asking for some you know you know requirement that they didn't know about so so um Trent what's more common there I mean what what have you seen around other municipalities with loading zone do they typically require it and they the applicant can you know apply for a variance or do you have you seen it or it's up to discretion of staff and counsel well excuse me um I mean not not all jurisdictions have over require requirement to have one but when they do it's usually have the requirement and then you can relax it if you want to if you start off without you know with the Baseline of zero and then required it if needed then you're going to have a lot more Kicking and Screaming uh and you know the Precedence will be zero and and that's what you're going to hear over and over again um but Jeremy is talking about even another layer of that where okay if you're requiring a minimum of one but staff can even ask for more right and I think I think the key would be to have the word minimum of one in in there um so it's a lot easier to require it and then give a variance to take it away than it is to have zero and then say no this time we want you to do it yeah I'm agreeable with that mayor um like to make sure that we do have the requirements in there I'm comfortable with I like the quarter guest spot 0.25 guest parking spots for the for the drilling unit the altern alternative options that were discussed the staff report about you know not having any requirements at all or anything like that I agree with what Trent is saying is require the minimum staff can recommend more make sure that language is in there it's probably be your comfortable with yeah I agree with the same I agree and I believe in the code there is a there is a relief mechanism if they have an engineer that shows it was that right Trent I'm just remember just reading it um that there was a Rel if they could show that that we're asking for too much or did I right no there's there's a statement that they can request a variance as long as I believe you made the three points as long as they don't uh affect the the resident parking as long as they don't affect parking in the right way and as long as they don't affect neighboring developments but that was they have to the proof of Burden would be on the applicant to to show that they would not impact negatively impact others I believe that was just for the loading zone but I don't know if it is written and we just don't have a full copy of the code in our backup for the parking or that it's a variance they can do that for parking as well I think it was just for loading now now you're saying it I did catch it TR I have a question while we're looking at this uh since you're exposed to this a lot when I was looking at some of the sites that we had listed on here like The Blair House close to my house different times of the day seeing how much of the parking or guests they were using and it's kind of offseason now so I don't know how what's the reality of that but I noticed there was plenty of parking that wasn't an issue uh what I I did also notice that there was more of a bike storage issue and I know you know we talk about ebikes or micro mobility and I don't know if if you've seen something that's coming uh just in general to municipalities where you're having to store people who are in apartments condos are having a trouble storing the these items just because you can't leave them outside like a normal bike you know normal bike or scoot or something like that some of them are very expensive I didn't know if new uh residential developments are now opening up storage or closets for those uh it it's becoming a preference to do so uh I don't typically see it in codes unless it's uh in a in a downtown uh downtown environment where there's a Tropic demand management and you're trying to sometimes they even lower the park the vehicular parking and then increase uh you know means to try to increase other modes of transportation but generally in Suburban settings we don't see a requirement for just the you you'll see the you'll see the actual developments struggle after the fact though because they didn't plan for it and then and then now you know the reality of it is a lot of people own bikes and a lot of people are using scooters and other other means so right um it's not a bad idea but uh it's not a common code for Suburban areas thank youc Brandon anything no vican no I just had um two more things there was there was no weekend study done on the uh parking stud and I know it was done during hours that people would be home from work if I remember correctly like good morning and late afternoon or evening but I know on weekends um you know people are usually home and now you know on Saturdays we have landscapers at we have delivery still so there's a lot going on on Saturdays do you ever do weekend studies I'm not I'm not I'm just like wondering if you if you have and you've seen a difference from your weekday studies and if there's anything to consider there uh we do studies that have a lot more time periods than we did for the study uh we actually had had brought a much more robust scope to the Village a while back uh and and the village decided not to go with that one so then you know in pairing it back we just tried to find the most important hours do you ever notice a big jump between weekday hours and weekends or the weekends no I mean the weekend usually becomes more of an issue if if the residential development is immediately adjacent to commercial and they have worries of uh people using the commercial uh developments you know overflow parking into the residential uh gated communities obviously don't have that problem but uh that tends to be a relationship to the commercial nearby is usually and the weekend is more important all right and then um uh my last question I know for me personally this you know the parking and and having enough guest parking really came to mind because because we're uh you know been facing a lot of new development and and nowadays everyone's building out you know Max to the setbacks the most sare footage they can fit in and you know some of these older uh developments aren't necessarily built out so did you think when you were doing the study and based on what you see in other municipalities that our code was maybe not current for the type of development that we are now seeing um there there's a lot of you it's not a good answer but there's a lot of variation in parking it's it's a it's unfortunately not an exact science I guess the good news is in comparison to the other other municipalities around uh the village the the code is pretty much rid in the middle which it's as low as one per uh one per dwelling unit in some jurisdictions and as much as three elsewhere so two two has it pegged pretty much in the middle and yes we we only looked at three developments and we only looked at them for one day and so you know could how you know how well does that cover all conditions um there could be some concern there but but the highest rate that we saw in any of the three developments was 1.3 not really getting that close to the two so I I think there's there's a buffer there okay thank you then um my other comments kind of more for Council too to consider um under the [Music] loading the off Street loading spaces for the variance I don't know and um TR and Jeremy please chime in do we need to add any language for also like blocking Drive AES blocking fire Lanes I mean I don't know if that falls in right away but I just want to make sure that everything that shouldn't be blocked is covered in the variants and looked at cuz right now it just says you know the parking on the site right away and other properties the design the design aspect I mean there's already loading loading space requirements for commercial so the code has all the all the design elements and anytime there's a variance it's going to come before staff and the council and you know on a case- by case basis you'll be able to see whether um there's a negative impact of what they're proposing I don't I don't believe there's a need to beef up anything the the adding the loading space for the multif family is just uh adding it for another use but the the concept for loading space is already in the code right but for the variance and and maybe midi even you because this comes like it's like more of a legality with variance what we look at I just want to make sure the language is in there that makes sure there's things that can't be blocked like a a driveway or fire fire access Public Safety access that's a very good question but I think that that's covered in in subp Part B above right there you already have restrictions that apply to Z to loading zones wherever they're located so that that would still apply in a scenario where you're granting a variance to have one I think that that's already covered in your code so I think you're clear there that it have to be free of access ways it couldn't impede parking spaces that that's already there okay just want to make sure and just while I have um your attention the answer to your question on the parking space reduction number um that you posted a couple of minutes ago there is a similar provision in your code in 78-77 which allows the council to reduce the number of parking spaces in the instance of Redevelopment or um expansion where the the parking requirements can't be met it's a similar process that comes back to you it's not worded as a variance but they have to do a parking study and then that comes back to you so there is a similar kind of um process where you can deviate from uh the parking space requirement okay thank you all right any other Council comments I all right any public comment all right uh Council we need to get staff Direction so I I to me it appears everyone's in favor of the proposed code as it's written 25 did we have to add anything for Jeremy's recommendation for the staff loading spaces I so the way I read the alternative options was is if we didn't want to do the code as proposed that we could put in these um the council and staff command mated but did you did you suggest something else I I think we should put that in there so that way it gives us the opportunity to ask for additional space or two if we feel like you know it's just a huge development that one loading space won't cut it um and that'll give us an opportunity to to look at it individual individually and you would want that in your code I'm sorry to interrupt if you were going to require that of anyone you would want that in your code so that it's clear so nobody can fight you on on it not being in your code and that's because you're saying the multi family residential loading is only requiring one space that's right it's not saying minimum one it's just saying one right so we need to add minimum and your recommendation right and I think the other part was um we were going to put in some language about behind a gated area or behind a secure area for um for the guest Park those were the two things that like you know as long as everybody's in agreement we move forward with that and the but the guest parking we're going to the0 25 and just leave it as is yeah I thought that was great because it was above other municipalities yeah we and we used our the numbers that we've had I think uh that we came out with those studies and we found somewhere in the middle and it but it was it was a little above yeah okay all right thank you thank you Trent appreciate your time thank you okay moving on agenda item two discussion on proposed resolution for use of discretionary funds J discretionary funds were put back in place I think dating back to 2013 I believe from time to time we have staff has been asked you know what the policy is for the use of discretionary funds uh while there is no set policy on the use of funds it was always generally agreed that they should be used for greater good of taquesta at the council meeting um staff was asked to develop the at the April staff meting a council meeting staff was asked to develop a policy for Council to consider attached you have that policy a few highlights are you know allocating those funds during the budget process the eligible uses that are there which uh include Community projects social Ware social welfare initiative cultural and recreational activities emergency relief Village representation uh these uses are all based on a PR use um based on the seat and the election time uh we we did highlight some in eligible uses of the funds and the approval process um the conclusion in section 11 I think best captures the intent of this policy and that the Village Council recognize the importance of responsive Ste stewardship in the management of the discretionary funds and is committed to ensuring these resources are utilized in a manner that maximize their impact on the well-being and development of the village and its residents um with that it's a draft policy if you guys have any other additional recommendations um or recommended changes we can do that thank you Council I don't have any recommended changes I same same with me May yeah there's just one I just wanted maybe discuss and it's come up before and usually most council members will donate out of their own pocket but when a nonprofit especially if the nonprofit is not located in taquesta or even the surrounding Jupiter area sometimes they come and ask for donations and sometimes it can get a little confusing so even in where it says ineligible uses it says personal gifts or personal donations and if the whole Council as a whole is not donating to a nonprofit it's just one sometimes in the past it just got confusing so I don't know if we just want to change the nonprofit to local based nonprofits instead of having maybe some of the ones that come that are further away that would be really the only change I would what what uh what section that so the nonprofits is eligible yes section four SE four so I don't I'm not recommended we take away nonprofits but just specify that they're local so I I had the same question but I didn't technically see nonprofits on here would that be social welfare initiatives or no it's on here it's on is it I missed it hang on I just saw Section 3 B that well that's yeah I mean is that what it would fall under but I'm because for example like Lighthouse art center right but that's local yeah that's one and Bush wildli and Jupiter BYO historically like we've you know council members have given um you know small donations to them but like I said we read through it we were hand it we read through it that was really the Nitty Gritty that I thought of other than that I'm fine with the way it is written I don't know in the past have we like we've even got the invitation here the Homeless Coalition right they're not local but they affect in our County there's also State associations that are around you know they could be in Daytona but they affect us and I don't know if we've used those dollars for that before um I mean I'm I'm great with keeping them Jupiter Testa but I don't know if we've donated to that items like that homes Coalition for one I'm fine if you guys want leave it or put it County I don't again that was just the gritty yeahi important to address yeah good point just nitpicking I guess I'll give one more into that bucket of nitty just getting into it but so historically some council members have uh maybe at Christmas time like gotten meals for staff police fire does that fall within one I just read them all and I guess depends on how Loosely you interpret them but I would think that goes under like the social warfare that's the only one I could kind of fit it into um that's we's really doing good for the community i' see that as yeah I just want to make sure that or see if that is changing our ability to do something like that right because you want to keep being able to do that yeah if your intends to do that we'll make sure we can reward it and put in one of these categories to make sure we can continue to do that I know that's always been a popular use of the funds and so I don't know that it's clear in here but I think we can make it clearer um and so that'll help okay guys but otherwise I think it looks great yeah cuz 3B does say residence Health needs of residents food does provide Health okay no I think it's really good otherwise I had a question on the pr use with the up to 50% um I don't want to limit a current council member from being able to like attend something because say say there's conferences or events and like more of them just happen to land in the first half of the Year versus the second half so would we put something that there could be an approval exception or how would we address I mean because I think this would keep everyone really transparent with what the spendings anyway so you could see if someone's abusing it or not but I don't like I just don't know how events fall throughout the year and what not if we're going to you know limit someone from able to do something sure after that 50% Mark to allow a process and that might not happen I don't know like I I mean I to date I haven't ran out of my funds ever at towards the end of the year so I mean it might not ever happen but how do we maybe we put some kind of clause saying that you know past that it could be like approved on a case-by Case basis or something yeah so it's not completely limited I think that's good and that actually just made me think of something else is and that say that same scenario and let's say I had an abundance of discretionary funds left and you really wanted to go to this could I transfer some of mine to Molly if I'm like I'm not going to use all these like is is that something we should consider I don't see an issue with that I mean but we can probably memorialize it if you guys want to I don't know what do you guys think is that I that might be nice just something I'm trying to think how you word both of those I think like deer is just application of a process is a filter on its own you know right you know um who would approve that case by case basis that's what yeah that's what I was staff or staff I would think I would think staff and I don't know I I think the village manager I don't think we get too much I'll be in the middle Jeremy immediate that yeah that would be interesting if I say no that would be interesting you're right a like you said it hasn't happened the scenario hasn't happened yeah so just some yeah just you guys come up with some language to address that so and then for the approval process I mean this is really nitty-gritty like are you expecting Council to submit a W9 when we request something so I know like with a chamber thing like I'll you know send it to staff and like oh can you register me for this like chamber event or League event and gritty but it says like we're supposed to send the W9 I'm like well I think so uh Lori is telling me they they will chase the w9s to some extent but if you like you know you're going to give to an organization and you reach out to them you know you can ask us for ask for W9 tell them that we are going to need that you know prior to issuing that that would help but I mean we'll we'll track them down is that right that's not saying that like I personally don't want to I'm just like I'm I don't know if I'll remember like I just you know should followers we ask just know that we can't give that money to a cause or a group until we get that W9 oh so W9 is just for like if we're donating something or is that if we're event or something too no not usually for the event for like if you're going to donate to to a specific cause you know we we have to make sure we have a W9 on file before we get send them the check yeah really for issuing payment in any form you for tax W9 so the two was let's see it was a approval process for above the 50% of the prata and then I think you're good on no were you saying no changes on social welfare just we flushed it out that have the ability I think it needs okay uh as far as like I think Jeremy agreed maybe it just needs to be a little clearer on you describe like yeah I think we'd come up with something Village you know something that benefits The Village staff or otherwise yep and then CC Brandon had a good point with nonprofits we want to make it like I don't know how do you define local or do you make it just County or what mileage radius you talk about the the cause or where they're Incorporated that's I don't know I just know most most of the time we haven't donated out of the taxpayers discretionary fund for that usually it's we'll donate but we'll put it out of our own money because we try to most of us try to put the discretionary funds back into the village Reserve itself if we're not just putting it back in reserve rather than just throwing it around right you're not the last day you're not trying to find somebody to donate to no I'm well just that way I don't know again I'm just nitpicking we were handed it yeah I think like I know from like I don't quite honestly like since I've been on Council like I I remember one year I um bought a bench to put out for the community for a school bus stop but like other years like I just whatever's left just goes to reserve it I don't even I don't even know like I just know I didn't spend it all and the rest is going to reserve which is where it should go so I guess I'm thinking of things like American Red Cross like let's say they came through like that's just such a large organization maybe we just put our energy in helping them get donations rather than spending the taxpayers money on just nitty-gritty or just leave it just leave it yeah I I think the concern with that like Red Cross what if we had a fire and the Red Cross helps a local family here you know so you want to reward them or or if you've got someone left over and I think when we start putting restrictions on where they're located or where they were founded I think it's discretionary I mean it's it's at the council member's discretion yeah yeah exactly like you just you know each council member uses the best judgment okay we're all individuals and so okay I agree council member Brandon you're good with that yeah okay fine nothing else okay good good mayor perfect okay any public comment yes we have Marian Nelson that was interesting 94 Beachwood Trail Mar neon just a beef history somewhere between 2000 and 2003 the discretionary fund was established for the council I say somewhere because an extensive search of the document Center yielded no mention of this fund being established in ordinance or in meeting minutes in interviewing both Mr Bradford and Miss Watkins and reviewing minutes of meetings between 200 and 2003 I established there was a budget fund of about $1,000 which was used to fund various programs and projects all the proposed projects under consideration were discussed at Council meetings and voted on for some period of time both the individual discretionary funds and the general funds were both in effect there for some of the contributions that the village uh gave were in the public and some were not so in reviewing this particular um document before us tonight I have the following considerations section two item C which is the report of the village manager will that be public and a part of the village minutes section three Item B the social welfare initiatives this description is vague and very Global almost any entity could be a support program there should be some criteria an example would be programs designated by a global classification like a 501c3 I have a charitable trust if it's not a 501c3 I can't pull from that trust section four item a religious organizations are not mentioned as being ineligible but political are uh contributing to a religious organization or their programs may be viewed as against separation of church and state section five item C approval without clear guidelines as to what constitute a valid contribution the decision of Village staff may be arbitrary other considerations checks are issued by the village does this indicate to the recipient that the village endorses their project even if it is stipulated that an individual council member requested the uh dispersement this entity could be the receiving entity could use this endorsement for their own use second on not addressed as conflict of interest should a council member be allowed to contribute to a qualified organization if he or she is part of that organization in a prompt uh prominent position and what would constitute a prominent role would that not be a conflict of interest it would three it would seem that some projects are no-brainers and everyone would agree to their validity and support them however in the present political climate that assumption is not really valid .4 in addition these are tax dollars that are being spent without any public input or discussion it is one individual's choice not a consensus of the council and approval by a non-elective official personally I would perform the I would prefer the former model and it should be a fund that funds Charities only this would eliminate section three item a community projects like your benches but that project those projects should really come out of the general fund by making this fund for Charities only would ensure that all contributions of the village dollars are discussed and voted on in public with public comment thank you thank you thank you any other public comment all right Council anything else no I guess I just a question I mean our discretionary funds for council is I'm assuming that's typical in a municipality or is it not you want to go go for it you sound like it's not uncommon um there are many who have policies just like this it is up to you to craft the policy that you want to operate within um not all jurisdictions have uh policies even if they do have funds like you all have been operating without uh formalized policies I understand it um it is obviously better to have a policy which is why I believe you're going the way you are um but not all municipalities do have discretionary funds uh that they use but they are certainly you certainly can have them and use them um and as you're doing it's it's always best to be transparent with guidelines that you're going to operate within but I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say the majority I wouldn't go that far at all certainly in palmach County the majority do or don't I would not say that that the majority does have a discretionary fund so it's it's um not everybody not not a majority just thinking so if we like say we're on Village uh business related how would like would there just be a separate fund for that if we didn't have discretionary funds like how would that work for if we're on Like official Village related business yeah we got to create a line item for for for that cause still regardless I mean you know for travel and um just like we have with other departments we have travel and reimbursement we would create one for a council travel and reimbursement if we did that in that in that way and then would probably still need some sort of policy to go with that well you'd probably just fall under our travel policy the okay the one the staff has yeah do we need I don't know what's your question I have do we even technically need discretionary fund like what I like what councilman painter talked about U you know we have to work with staff on a regular basis and showing them some appreciation at the end of the year that did seem like a nice gesture um but I haven't been here long enough to to see what we spend or what we actually need I know we go to a lot of different uh meetings and lunches but again but that could be a separate a separate budget item that would maybe just be like Council strictly for like those kind of things like conferences meetings lunch where we're representing the village or on Village business but like do we need discretionary funds for all these other things I can go either way most of the time I don't touch mine there's been a few times I've put a few gifts back into the community that were activities and they are still there today for the good of the public to use other than that that's all I've ever really used it for so I can kind of go either way I've only used it for the example I gave the alternative is very similar what Marsha said there's you know some cities that have a a bucket that of you know $10,000 or whatever the number works out to anytime something wants to be used we get a presentation from a group the council at that point can make a motion as a whole to use those funds for that that way it's a group discussion it's not individual discretion it's the council as a whole is donating to a cause so that would be an alternative if you guys want to go that route too but do council members pull from that pull of money for meetings whatever they're doing I think we'd still if you wanted to go that route we would just set up a separate travel and reimbursement fund um and then have a pocket of of of funds that you guys want if you guys want to do that and I'm just thinking I'll top of my head that's probably how I would recommend we do that so we can track it if the prerogative is get rid of the discretionary fund I would say get rid of it not have another bucket that we're kind of pulling and voting on if if that is the the goal the council is to ultimately get rid of it I guess I just don't like if we can have a separate budget for expenses for conferences meetings events um allowable you know that are reasonable like what I guess I kind of now thinking like why do we need funds for anything else I thought bench idea was great in Council banners gesture was great you know but that's not a common thing oh I'm sorry I'm sorry B I was just saying I I like the the the bench idea that you executed in councilman painters uh gesture for the holidays or whatever it may be but I'd rather just get rid of the discretionary fund all together not create a whole another bucket where we're having presentations and voting on where the money should go uh and just a little note I'm i' would be a little biased because I don't have any discretionary funds so I would be at an advantage of receiving this other expense bucket but they would I mean I don't think it's an issue but it would open up just a disclaimer I think as long as there's travel expenses that are available because you know if you go to Tallahassee twice you know it's it's cost $1,000 every time you go you know and so if there's money available that you're using to represent the village wherever that pot comes from is fine yeah I think sorry no because other than that what would you do with it unless a resident called you confidentially and said listen you know I found hard times and can't pay my bills well that's in there for Resident wellbeing so me our policy allows us to do that but we do lose that ability to to and again it's all public record so any checks that any donations are ever made somebody doesn't like it then they call you out and you don't get reelected yeah I mean I just think at some point you have to have personal responsibility right can't be all policy yeah I I I support the discretionary fund um I have a short time here to experience that but I get the point of it I've dealt with some other municipalities that do have them and I believe it's a positive for the council to have that option um yeah to distribute those funds where they see fit without a policy and and a vote um I think the this policy would allow so it doesn't get abused but with it within parameters I mean the reality is if we want to use it it's not like this money sits with us anyway anyway every time we want to use it we need to call svina or somebody so there is a check and balance here in addition to us using our own discretion yeah think Mr Bradford wants to see something yeah Tom Bradford 44 Chestnut Trail there's two things inside the concept of discretionary funds one is for valid Municipal purposes where you go to an event or training conference Etc that's part but the other part is the donations to people and or organizations that want something and so what I want to warn you about is if you were to go back to the way it was when I was manager the uh the organization would come to the council and ask for money for the JTA parade money for the juper high school Lighthouse Elementary Jupiter all non-stop all the time and the council members used to complain to me particularly in the 95 to the year 2000 is when they got started to get fed up with it was the they can't say no it's just a it's impossible to say no no cuz you know they can make a good case for wanting money but it's hard for you as a group to say no and so I've always speculated I me uh I mentioned this to Mara I just speculated that after I left the next town manager said well let's just go to discretionary because that way you know each individual gets to pick who's going to get a donation but the other thing to talk about is for the valid Municipal purposes the bucket's great the bucket works I mean you know you want to go to a conference in Tallahassee or West Palm or Miami and it's valid The Village will either pay for it or reimburse you or a combination of the two um so I would just I'm really mostly trying to warn you about allowing donations to come back where they come in here and you have a difficult time saying no that's my main message thank you the public have we historically I mean since I been on Council I haven't Reed like a bunch of requests for donations I mean you've been you've been here the longest Jupiter High bush wildlife I think there might have been one other one um but like I said with my time with previous council members it's usually we support we'll donate from our own pocket but not from our discretionary fund and each person would donate their own amount from their own personal finances that's how it's gone in the past couple years yeah I haven't but again that's with that individual's discretion to use the taxpayers money or not so technically without a policy they could have used taxpayer money and that just I've heard from residents that gets a little weary but I've never done that I've just paid out of my own pocket something I support personally yeah I mean if it makes sense just to limit it to Village representation and whether it's state what is it 2000 now what do we have I don't I don't even know the budget 3,000 is a discretionary fund oh man okay yeah I mean if the concern is that these funds could be used um kind of on a unilaterally decided basis you know like then I don't think anyone's going to argue with well I could be wrong but the village representation is really what we're all talking about it's educated so that we can come back to our village and put that stuff into practice I'm fine if we limit to that I guess I don't use mine so I'm just kind of I don't have a huge opinion on it um other than for that meal but I I think the village representation we should have that because Molly I know you go to a lot of stuff Rick you're and Tallahassee I mean I don't think it's fair for you have to pay that out of pocket you might not go if you have to spay out of pocket but just have like one budget line in for that for all Council to pull from not yeah not a uh whatever doesn't have to it could be one bucket or it could be everybody gets $1,000 at the beginning of the year or however we do it but that's all can be used for and that's all it can be used for because the bucket could get hard if you go to a lot of stuff or everyone goes a lot stuff and then I suddenly want to go and it's all gone you know like yeah so I would say everybody gets x amount of money isolated to build representation and keep the pro out of use but I mean if we're concerned about it if not I'm fine keeping it how it is either too so I think the very least it should be able to be used for that yeah that's what I agree with because other stuff I'm kind of like why I mean technically it's tax dollar why do we even need to have it all on there and just use it strictly for Village business Village representation yeah I get the donation thing a little bit because you just say a council member is not going to donate to something that's you know the rest of council doesn't necessar or Village as a whole does not agree could bring some bad bad light yeah I can't even think of an example gives the possibility yeah council member Brandon what are you in favor for just keeping it strictly for um vill related business absolutely Village related at this time I actually would prefer to keep it and I don't mind if we lower it from 3,000 to to something less I would prefer at this time to keep it per individual discretion rather than a bucket at this time um from personal experience reasons but do you want to leave on all the other discretionary items or just strictly keep it just for me as long as it's Village related um I mean if there's an incident in the village for example I put a little library in the village that was for Community effort it's for if for me if it's for the good of the public a bench for the bus stop if it's for the good of the public I'm okay with that if it's a personal project for one resident I mean that's a little iffy we can I know when we had a fire our whole Community rallied together it didn't fall on one Council member's shoulders to find taxpayer dollars like we have a great Community for those kind of things I think but if it's something like a bench or a library or something for health safety or good public use I'm fine with that but it has to be in the village yeah so I'm not putting something over in Jupiter or anything like that or um you know like a a just yeah I'm sorry summer right council member French you said you are in favor of leaving how it is right now with discretionary okay vice mayor I go either way if you want to limit it just to Village representation but um I don't I don't think the system is broken so I don't know why what we're trying to fix I mean we're all accountable I mean I made four donations last year to to Questa based nonprofits um um that it's been been memorialized somewhere so I mean I'm willing to stand behind any any decision I make and explain why I'm making it people don't like that then they don't reelect us you know but I think I don't think the system is but I think we're trying to find something that that that's not broken yet unless it's been broken in the past again I'm only 15 months into this so if it has been an issue in the past I heard somebody talk about a personal experience and maybe something happened and these should be these fun should be highly scrutinized I don't know so I when I say that um the reason why I think it should be based per individual is for me that's a better accountability and organization system to see who is maybe abusing the funds and who is using them more than others yeah good intentions or not but again staff has to approve them but we didn't have Mr Allen in the past either right and I guess the transparency and I think you've put in your monthly reports would Shake all that out to because right now like no one knows what you donate into unless someone purposely wanted to know and pulled a public record request right so it's really not but again we didn't have Mr Allen beforehand no but even now it's not like it's not transparent to the public they would have to do a public yeah do a public record request because I have no problem if it gets put in someone's or monthly report if someone happen to use funds that gets thrown in right so if you're doing the monthly report then it's all it'll all shake out there from a transfarency standpoint so just leave how it is sorry I took us down a rabbit hole but we did get good public input today which thinking like do we even really need this discretionary fun like maybe we don't need it so we don't need this policy or we're going to leave it the way it currently is with no policy or do we want the policy we want the policy but I think the adjustments we originally spoke about yeah staff staff uses or staff food or or meals prata use uh you know other than the travel you know travel or those those expenses will keep the pro dat uh the transfer of funds if if a council member is out of funds it can be transferred to another council member um I think that was that was the majority ones unless I missed any um the other one that Lor's reminded me is and we'll memorialize it in there with the uses is you know at times Council have used when you get a council member gets um a cell phone we use those funds to help pay for the council member cell phone The Village issued cell phone and so um those funds can still be used for that we'll make sure we memorialize that before we bring it back okay okay you're adding you're adding that to the policy yeah yeah we'll bring that back okay all right with that can I get a motion to adjourn so move second all in favor I stretch it out stretch it out you didz how you do that parenting TR I keep up my dancers