e e e e e all right good evening um welcome everybody to the Titus environmental commission report on May 15 2024 um Lori can you call the role please chairwoman Thompson here Vice chairman maack here member y member Tucker member Perez member Delgado here member fiss alternate member young alternate member Coy here okay and and so hopefully um alternate member young will come in we'll find out in a little while um can we stand for the Pledge of Allegiance flag of the United States America to the stands na indivisible justice for all all right has has everybody had a chance to look at the minutes by by the way it was a long meeting and there was a lot of detail and you did an amazing job on the minutes Lori we really appreciate it they're very detailed um can I hear a motion to approve the minutes a motion to approve second all right um I I did have one one change I wanted to make um but we have a motion by member my Jack seconded by member Del delaz Gazo um on um let's see on page what starts on on page two of seven which is actually page five in in the whole packet and it describes you know the compliments that I made for this city you know because we are excelling above a lot of the other communities um and it and it did acknowledge you know that said that I I want to encourage the city of Titusville to do even more but I think I I said more detail like um because of our location at the North End of the river with six causeways between us and Sebastian Inlet we need to do more than other cities so I don't know if you guys want to add that to the minutes or if if you're okay with them the way they are I'm okay all right did you get that Lori that one change um I can you want me to read read it again okay be I I also said that because of Titus ville's location at the very North End of the Indian River with six causeways between us and Sebastian Inlet Titusville needs to do more than the other cities we we have a respon responsibility up here okay thank you so um all those in favor of approving the minutes with change say I I oppose the minutes are approved unanimously all right petitions and requests from the public present Tony shiff Tropic Street at council meeting last evening an agenda item concerning allowing transient housing along the Indian River Lagoon in the shoreline mixed use District caused several council members including one running for district 1 County Commission to express interest and a desire to maintain the riverfront properties vacant along the riverfront inside the SMU to not see or allow hotel and motel use at all and to limit further growth in order to keep keep it open and accessible to the citizens of Titusville who suggest that over and over in all the surveys that they put out about what what to do and creating a Riverfront walkway of some sort or s Parkway this was in relation to naming Kirk Point Riverside Park I suggest that the Tec as the environmental experts whispering in the council's ear to review the existing vacant lands who owns what what areas are already designated parks and make recommendations to council to purchase maintain and repair existing Riverfront vacant properties vacant in perpetuity for the citizens of Titusville to have river access and this would be um a really nice thing to investigate and as the Titusville environmental commission you guys are kind of the front line and protecting what we have left of the riverfront so that the citizens do have access thank you um Mr gendo can you explain to us what transient housing along the Rivershore means transi and town housing in our code is um sort of like a short-term rental short-term stay so that's what it's what it's getting at and so um the question is should that be permitted in the SMU zoning District so that would be like um if if somebody has a house along the Rivershore and they wanted to um turn it into a be it doesn't mean that we're going to construct housing for transients along the Rivershore right correct we're not going to add any other buildings to the Rivershore that wouldn't already I mean they would already be there if they could a lot of that property on the south south end of town simply isn't buildable and it was targeted um many many years ago when the in the Titusville Riverfront acquisition um when the citizens actually voted to tax themselves to buy waterfront property which would be the only way probably that we could afford to acquire additional property but I just wanted to make sure that whatever they're talking about doesn't mean that people can build housing for transient people along the Rivershore so how did it come out what what was the council's decision on that uh to be honest I don't have the backstory prepared tonight but we can look into it and email the commission what that item was about I was too no let Michael talk about it he was there yeah go ahead yeah well I I'm not in the room but I watched the meeting I attended the whole thing so yeah um what council referred to last night was that they decided they did not want to allow hotels and so forth in the so they made no changes to the Shoreline mixed use uh zoning in in that regard which still left as we said some transient housing or Bed and Breakfast things and operation but would prohibit the construction of you know big hotels um but to the point um that our petitioner just asked um I was involved in the pack for the riverfront Bond referendum and and so I was there from the beginning and how we and why we and yes we would need to do a bond referendum the city does not have the resources to all right purchase those lands that does not mean that that's not something that the city could not do and put on the ballot for 2024 so I I know that this has just been brought to us but I I would suggest one of two things either we take this to its conclusion which would be me making a motion in one sense um or we add it to as as a new agenda item and we move it a little bit later into the meeting so that we can progress how how would you like to proceed with this well the problem with that is the amount of time that it takes the lawyers to pound out whatever the language of the of the referendum would be I mean we're we are we're we're way behind on the soral referendum right now sure but in this case this is a city referendum for the city to to decide whether or not they would like to purchase the waterfront properties along Riveredge drive and so forth and we did this once before and we we were successful we bought properties and I think if we set our SES and our goals to making that happen and indicate that this then becomes something for all of us to share in and we include the management and maintenance of these things because that hasn't been done in the past right this is always a sticking point yes you can buy it but then somebody's got to manage it it's got to be maintained so we need to set aside a bond referendum that sets aside a portion of it to go into management maintenance and the rest of it goes to purchasing what we can and we we spell out to the citizens that this is this is for the benefit of all you know like they do in Finland everything is shared in that sense so that would be my my motion if I were allowed to put one fourth here would be that we make that as a recommendation to city council and let it go forward at their next meeting I think it's a great idea that we purchase riverfront property we could spend some time and study it if you'd like to and see what all the benefits would be but I think the benefit to the citizens and my God just imagine having small sections of natural Shoreline again where we could do our loral plantings and we could see our horseshoe crabs coming in and mating you know these are these are things that I want to see again and we need to be fostering that kind of thing and if we're going to become the city beautiful on the Indian River Lagoon a jewel then we need to be protecting that and and it starts with with that taking care of our land so that we don't overdevelop so I would like to make that motion if if you would accept that chair Madam chair then chairwoman I would just um quickly for the commission's benefit um suggest that if you're going to propose a new um study or or program you might want to ask Council for what's what we call advisability which is you're asking council is this something that you'd like the Tec to investigate further um so that way you're not spending time reviewing partial by partial whether they're uh worthwhile for acquisition if Council isn't Ed in moving in this direction you okay what he said no I think we should ask Council not staff to clarify I'm not asking uh for the commission to ask staff um what your motion would be so you'd be asking city council if they would like the Tec to consider this proposal and that way once you have Council no that was not my motion okay my motion was that the city council consider purchasing these Riverfront properties and that we let a bond referendum to not only purchase but to manage and maintain them in perpetuity for the citizens of Titusville that's what I'm saying not ask staff should we study it some more I already studied this place enough we need literal shorelines not hardened shorelines we need places where we can grow the benthic invertebrates that the fish all eat so they can Thrive and we've been killing that part of our Lagoon for years and I'm tired of it I want to see change and this is a grand suggestion and this suggestion feeds I think the soul of Titusville when we talk about nature and space and that's what my motion is so I I hope we can find a second okay well I I I agree with you I mean we we did the studies we know which properties we bought so we have the information on the properties that we didn't buy 20 years ago I don't think it needs to be studied I agree with you we have destroyed the the shoreline of of the of you know the river by hard hard armoring it and there's no place for the horses crabs to spawn and I would love to see the the shoreline obtained and maintained for the the benefit of the river and the animals that live there so I but I can't second it so is there a second chair you can second you just can't make the motion I'll second he can second too but you can for the record you can second you just cannot make the motion as the chair so you can always hand the gavel over to me make a motion and then you're not the chair are you correct all right so um we have have a motion by my member my Jack and and a second by member Delgado to advise the city um to to see if they they will allow a a referendum right I mean we want to go straight into a referendum we we don't want to spend a bunch of time studying it and and all that right okay which which lands do you want to specify piece by piece this is why I was suggesting why don't we add it to the agenda and make it a new business so that we can go into it in detail to make the motion correct thank you well I would think that we would be interested in obtaining any property that aren't developed that we didn't buy in the first referendum 20 years ago okay that we just make it any and and be done yeah any Riverfront undeveloped River properties Riverfront properties that were not purchased in the first acquisition 20 years ago or whenever it was and put the bond referendum I mean we if if you seriously want to try to do this in November we have to move now we do absolutely do time is of the essence on this thing we have literally two months before it's got to go to the supervisor of elections so we have very little time exactly we'd like to make it happen and it's going to take the city to do so now we know that the city is strapped for resources so a bond referendum is really the only option in this case and and I don't think there's anything that much more valuable than Wetlands including those on the waterfront well um these undeveloped properties are if you look at their you know market value or what their assessed value on the tax rols it's very very little wouldn't it would we're not talking about a lot of money um is there remember Delgado if I may I was here 20 years ago I lived in this city and I remember all of that so somewhere in the city there is a summary right of all these properties that are left so we do know from we purchased this to this is how many are left and this is what we want the city to embark on a referendum because there's got to be definition yes and and so I want to make sure that the definition is there so we don't get caught with a back and forth and play a little pingpong uh that well we don't know what to by and he hasn't been identified and uh 10,000 of thanks okay because I I do believe and I agree with both of you that yes 20 years ago we did buy land the land was uh given a designation and those owners have been paying very little taxes because it's not buildable so as long as we we go back to some baseline and I don't know what that is uh or what's left of it from the 20 years that this happened uh I think we're going to need someone's some some help to identify what is it that we're buying because if I were in Council right now I would ask you the same question what is it that we're buying well pretty easy to look at the property ofers website and and and mad chair I understand she said all non all non-developed undeveloped River properties myself Devil's AF because obviously it has to be a willing yeah I don't want to get to council and then they go well we have no idea and therefore now there's going to be a study and then now there's going to be things that are going to take place and what you're trying to achieve the November deadline may not come to be well it would have to be in the next couple ofth months which would mean making the initiation to the city council at the next city council meeting Which is less than two weeks away which is enough time to make an announcement to them right that this is what we'd like to do then that would give them time to either say yes or no and if yes then direct staff to figure out what we need to do to make it happen well but that's the mechanic of got to that's the timing you have to put the mechanics together to get the timing to to align and the the final has to be submitted sometime in July I can I can tell you that from the right to clean water there there's a time limit that in order for them to get the ballot language in place it has there's a deadline that deadline's actually in August for the city but that gives us about two or three months if we start now and get the thing rolling then we leave it to the city I mean we can't tell them precisely how to do this Bond referal it I'm not I'm I'm still before that I'm still with the identification of the properties so that so that the city knows what they're going to plan to buy you know is it 10 Lots 15 Lots you know I know there's many because I drive on US1 a lot and I know some of the owners that do own it and and and so but if we go to council and said oh by the way we want you to have a bond on all the land that you did not buy 20 years ago that that then begs what I'm trying to get to the staff even has the data the the current data other than the tax records yeah so all all we have to do is like identify the pieces of property that don't say own they're owned by the city of Titusville and it's going to have a person's name there and then we contact that person and ask them if they would be interested in selling their undevelopable piece of property back to the city back you know to to the city yes but if you're sitting on on Council uhhuh and you're asking me to to send you on a bond referendum that I have no idea what the cause is or what I'm asking for in terms of dollars or people right well uh that that's that's where I'm stuck that would involve a property appraiser I'm sure that would assess the value of the I'm agree with you guys I'm all for it but I think are you stuck on the list on how we would generate this list or what the list is I am stuck on when we when we ask Council to go do a referendum and by November okay and we're going to buy land how many pieces uh is it you look at the property appraiser site you find all those that are not owned by the city and those that are listed by individual developers that are still undeveloped and that's a finite list of properties and as Laur said as our chairman said you would we the city would simply contact and find if they want to sell it and if they would be interested in selling and if they do but this process happens after city council says yes go study okay that's what we're asking that's part of the program if we want to make this happen they have to go study and find the specifics they have to go put the bond referendum together they have to go meet all the deadlines at the supervisor of elections it's all part of the process okay it it's but we just have to tell them what we want them to what our so it should be a very simple language all it should be very straightforward very simple all the pieces of property that are not City owned and there are from here to there all the undeveloped able undeveloped right non city-owned properties exactly what I'm what I'm looking for is the language so that we don't get bounced and the time runs well I I think undeveloped properties from Parish Road to Kings Highway well isn't City I would say yeah from from like I don't know from the village in down to the NASA Causeway there's not going to be very many there might be 10 no I don't expect a lot yeah but it it would be nice to get them in ownership but it would also be nice to have some money to restore them and that's what we didn't have before right so all we do is just throw rocks in construction debris on them as they erode away and and eventually they will eat the river will eat property up to US1 use them as examples of how to go forward if you're going to build and you're on the water this is what you need to do to make your literal planting this is what we proposed years ago from the Tec that everything was literally planted that we would not do any more hardened shorelands we would not do any more seaw walls because we know they fail and they fail the Lagoon they fail the health of the environment so we can use these properties as demonstration to the city to the citizens we can grow a canopy along the water's edge right and and Native plantings there there's a lot to this that we can which is why I said we should make it a new item on the agenda I'm with you and and so just for clarification from Village in back to 50 or or is it all the way to the cway go to Parish Road all the way to the causeway all the way to all the way to Kings Highway where the city boundary says we're going growing let's let's not let's not make it complicated those properties from Buffalo Road North along the railroad track are absolutely not only are they unbuildable they're inaccessible to the public so I don't think the public should be spending money buying properties that they can't even get to how do we Salvage those properties going forward then because eventually Buffalo Road will get developed up that way they're just not on the east side of the railroad track it's impossible no there's no no not on the east side yeah it's a pretty shallow Edge yeah no I I think you know from from Village in to Highway 50 okay again I'm just gonna why not King's Highway because it's unrealistic you you're talking about Riverfront properties that are in the industrial park not developable huh we said undevelopable right privately owned right that would be willing to sell okay so what's wrong with anything all the way down to Kings Highway if there's somebody who owns a piece of property on the water there that is willing to sell what's the problem if they're not willing to sell then they're not willing to sell it's not complicated if there's an opportunity to purchase something that ends up being a a park for the city in the middle of that Industrial Park then that would be a boom to anybody that works out there it would be nice but they're not going to sell those pieces of property that are in an industrial park they would they would be like a lot of money I mean I'm trying to keep it simple so we can get it past I I think that it's reasonable to say from the village in to Highway 50 I mean they've already destroyed the Rivershore at Tranquility Bay those people that bought you know there's a homeowners association that owns the the Big Lots North of Tranquility Bay um the homeowners that live on the rivers Shore there's houses and stuff I I think to high coming to Highway 50 or to Kennedy Point uh Condominiums cuz there is a little team there's a couple little slivers in there between Highway 50 and Kennedy point they might be owned by do do owns some of that property that's down there but I I I'm I'm opposed to trying to buy all the way to Kings Highway I don't think it's realistic and staff would end up wasting their time and I think we should we should approve something that's actually doable and and I think that the the those those properties that are east of the railroad track that are north of Buffalo Road they are completely inaccessible to the public and and I don't I don't think that we should be spending public money buying them that's just my opinion but so can we make a motion that's simple that that's easy for Lori to to write down so you want to go from the village in to the NASA Causeway okay yeah that's how yeah that that'll work to the NASA Causeway there there might be a couple of of um little slivers along river River Edge Drive south of the St Vincent's um church thing but I don't think those people long Riverside Drive that have homes are going to want to sell their riverfront property they might but they have a home it's developed that's not what we're asking for well their home is on there's a Street between their home and the Rivershore and then there's like a little tiny sliver of Rivershore mhm like maybe yeah 8 ft wide that they could put a dock on or something yeah I I don't think those people are going to want to sell I think I think making it just trying to get the rest of those pieces of property that are along the south side of Titusville you know that are like south of Kirk Point Park or whatever it's called now that's reasonable and I and I think if we make it too unreasonable the city council is just going to laugh at us and and say no so so it has to be something that's simple and doable this is just a guesstimate the purchase from the village in to NASA Causeway a referendum to purchase undeveloped properties on the iro is that simple enough I mean that's basic what we were talking about right from Village into NASA Causeway and we're talking about a referendum to purchase undeveloped lands along the Indian River lagon right on the water okay and that referendum then would include the purchase the restoration and literal zone and and maintenance so that's what would be in the bond right so that we cover the restoration and the maintenance of those lands yes well I I would like to see the um maintenance of the previous properties that we bought also so it doesn't make sense to purchase and maintain properties that are in between other properties we need we need to maintain that entire Riverfront Shoreline and that's why I would argue that we ended at Highway 50 rather than trying to take it all the way down to 405 ended at Highway 50 so that we're targeting that area that when you worked on this 20 years ago the vision was that that entire south side of of of Titusville would be like a linear River Park with a trail and amenities we had hoped that we would purchase everything along the River from Highway 50 to 406 to Garden Street to Garden Street yeah and there would be an open as there was in Monterey Bay as they eventually completed after a 75e goal they bought back every single property on the bay right and they made it all apart yeah and that was the vision that Jim Tully had when when he made that motion some 18 years ago right 20 years ago but there there's there's nothing left you know north of the village in that I can think of there wasn't in Monterey Bay either but they bought back every building every Stitch I think we should start with something that the council will maybe swallow and then you can expand on it I again I think if we want to close it back to Highway 50 I I I get that that's the only change you've recommended so so far yeah um we're still talking about a referendum we've talking about purchasing undeveloped properties we're talking about now adding to this referendum the restoration and loral zones and maintenance of all the properties that the city has along the water okay good make your motion well I made the motion but we'll go back I'll state it again I'd like to hear from our fourth member here he's been very silent on on all of this I don't know if it's because he can't get a word in edgewise no I agree with what you guys are saying I agree with LLY on the fact that I just I don't know if we'd be able to get all of that but I also agree with you that it would be great to to have all of it to at some point you know in the future maybe a propose from 50 to Village in for now but say that we have a larger goal of obtaining all of this property but take it in bite pieces as we go along excellent make a motion before I do I would like to ask um Tony shiff if she would come back up and give her comments on what we're talking about before I write it out here okay see if we if we have addressed her concern yes thank you for this opportunity to respe you have more than addressed m concerns I was hoping perhaps to have a recommendation that you do explore what properties are available what is being done and and what the plans are because they're talking about the Gateway um expansion um and and plans for that with with changes to the comprehensive comprehensive plan related to the gateways which covers that Highway 50 entryway um along the Indian River Lagoon and you're right there aren't that many more properties and as far as the maintenance we don't want them to go in and over maintain I think but Council Works in very slow ways Mr MAAC and I'm afraid that just saying okay we want a referendum by this year what I would suggest is that we suggest to them that they explore because they are willing and and they're is a big election coming in November and they're wanting to respond to the public at this point so I would I would suggest that you suggest to them that we explore the available properties that vacant properties between the villagein and Highway 50 with the possibil with the potential of buying them purchasing them for the the river the river walk or whatever kind of fanciful name we can come up with thank you for the opportunity thank you Tony okay so we'll make a motion to city council that we explore possibility of a bond referendum to purchase selected undeveloped properties along the Indian River Lagoon between the village in and NASA Causeway no excuse me Highway 50 and that this referendum include the Redevelopment or shall we say the restoration of the city-owned properties along the water into a natural and native state including canopy and understory plantings and that the literal zone and then the maintenance of these properties also be managed and maintained accordingly so that we can demonstrate to the city of Titusville to the people of Titusville how we take care of our lands along the water okay it's pretty long motion I don't think you need the last sentence about being the demonstration no but we want to explore the idea of a Bond referendum to purchase the remaining undeveloped properties on the Indian River Lagoon that needs to include not only the purchase of the existing remaining undeveloped properties but also the management and maintenance and restoration of those lands to their natural state of of all of the properties of all the properties to their natural state I think you can listen to the the tape and figure it out thank you is there a second Hector you seconded are you okay with that yes ma'am good all right all all those in favor say I I it it should be a roll call roll call okay roll call who you think member delato yes Vice chairman MAAC yes member coosy yes chairwoman Thompson yes all right the motion passes unanimously thank you for that suggestion Tony all right are there other people that want to speak under petitions and requests good evening guys um so I'm Elizabeth Baker I live here in Titusville on April 7th I was here across the river on Gator Creek and discovered a ton hundreds and hundreds of dead horseshoe grabs um I contacted FWC went through the proper channels filled out an online form reporting this kill um and they were it was weird because they were just piled and piled and piled up and they weren't eaten U there were flies it it was stench everywhere and I just couldn't understand why they weren't actually on the shore they were up in the mang Groves and I was very confused so I made this FWC report and I contacted Miss Bailey with fight for zero she in turn and I'm I'm Sorry Miss Thompson I I'm confused about this so I'm I'm I'm not here to cause a problem I I want to ask questions here because she contacted Dumis Thompson and was told that it was raccoons that did that and to unreport the FWC report because it would cause a panic I was beside myself thinking that I had done something wrong I went back out there the next day on the 8th confirmed what I saw Took a ton of video and I mean they were dead they were dead they weren't eaten they weren't molted they were dead um we consulted with um an environmental scientist that works with fight for zero a lot and they confirmed that you know looking at these pictures absolutely these animals were dead we you know how did they get up in these mangroves why were they piled up um and since then I have reported or I've contacted FWC and asked them the same question like what on Earth did I do something wrong here is there even a way to unreport is this normal are there deranged murdering raccoons going around and piling crabs up and they have told me no that was definitely not raccoons and you certainly did the right thing so I'm upset I'm confused I don't understand what that was about um it seems really unlikely that any anybody in Titusville is actually going to panic over something like that the only people that I could see panicking or maybe unfortunately people that would lose money I mean but the people don't seem to really I mean they care about the water but like nobody's going to panic over that nobody panicked when there was a sewage spill nobody panicked when there was all sorts of other horrible things happening so you know I just I guess I'm just really asking for an explanation and and like why why would I be told to unreport something to FWC see like and I'm I'm sorry I feel horrible doing this but I feel like it really needs to be put on the record thank you I the one that moved the horseshoe crabs off the Shor line they were killed by raccoons there are um our horseshoe crabs they only Nest during high wind and high wave of vents there is a certain percentage of crabs that get turned over in the process during in a massive spawn most of those crabs died because raccoons killed them they turn them over and they they rip their insides out and they eat the eggs out of the females they leave them on the shoreline and the shoreline gets blocked by so there are times when there are so many dead horseshoe crabs that the live crabs can't get up on the beach to spawn cuz they can't push the dead crabs out of the way they there is a a group of volunteers that work for FWC the program is called linked with limulus we've been working there for six years now we've been doing this for six years I have photographs from four years ago during a year that we had 60,000 crabs that we counted we had 10 piles of dead horseshoe crabs there were probably 5,000 dead horseshoe crabs in piles along the shoreline so if you have if you have a way to enable the horseshoe crabs to continue to spawn and still leave the dead horseshoe crabs on the shoreline to block the live crabs from being able to get to the beach uh I'd like to hear what your solution is I mean we we are down there we're volunteers we are doing our best to to enable the horseshoe crabs to to continue to spawn there I've complained to the Wildlife Refuge about the number of raccoons that come out they they're especially vicious underneath the mangrove clumps that there's so many dead horseshoe crabs underneath the mangrove limbs that is a literal wall that the live crabs cannot get to the beach I was told by FWC not to worry about it I'm not I'm sorry us fish and wildlife service that this is a natural thing that happens in nature and so they're not going to they're not going to trap and move the raccoons which is what I asked for because the Carnage is unbelievable and Miss shiff can can she can confirm what I'm telling you okay um unfortunately when I called FWC they had a completely different narrative I mean I'm sure this is upsetting to you it's upsetting to me as well and I and I apologize the repercussions of of this are serious absolutely absolutely so you know they may shut they may shut down they may shut down our ability to count horseshoe crabs on the Wildlife Refuge did I do the wrong thing by reporting to FWC when I saw hundreds of dead animals no but you could have called or reported back to FWC that that we you know that you found the cause of why all the dead animals were there I mean I can tell you about um a when we had a high water all respect I I we consulted an environmental scientist and you know I I know that you're on this board and you're on several other boards but you know that's that's why I we did that you know to follow proper procedures and to speak with people who who knew and you know it maybe all of that is is absolutely true but I can tell you those those raccoons must have been absolutely meticulous in picking those eggs out because those bodies were not Disturbed they were not eaten they weren't ripped apart they were just dead so maybe I need to learn more and I'm if you if you go back and and picked up the horseshoe crabs and looked at them you're going to find that 90% of them have the let me think upside down the Le hand back Pusher leg has been ripped off on on 90% of them it the the hor the the raccoons are very meticulous in how they handle the crabs and where they go in they rip the the back Pusher leg off and if you look carefully you'll see cracks and holes on that inside um inside uh there they have like a double skin around their carrus and in inside that Hollow area between the two between the outer shell and the inner shell is where the eggs are stored they mainly Target the females because they eat the eggs and and if you looked carefully you would see there is damage to to all of those crabs they also will um they will pull out they will go in through the gills area so like below where the legs are there's a layer of gills that then and they will rip those out so you know if you if you want to go back and look at them you will see that kind of damage I will certainly go back and review my photographs um and you know maybe I can get in contact with somebody at FWC to explain well I suggest that you contact the horseshoe crab arm of FWC because the whoever you talk to probably did not talk to there uh the head of that um her name is Berlin Harry's okay and and um her email is berlin. hares myfwc.com b b e r l y n n a dot h e r s at myfwc.com okay I I mean this is a learning opportunity for everybody here um and I do you know I feel strongly that I did what was right that it's exactly what we've been told as Citizens that if we see something we should report it so I did that okay and you know I don't feel that there was any reason for for me to to feel like I was doing something negative there um it just seems that there's a lot of misinformation from board to board to board when it comes to the Lagoon there's a lot of narratives that don't seem to meet up and this just kind of fell into that category for me so I appreciate your time thank you okay well yeah so you like I said contact Miss Harry's hello St Bailey Coco Florida first and foremost I want to say there's some of you I've never met before I am a stakeholder in this community in Bard County and it's because I run a nonprofit organization I also run uh a business and I also am a journalist and uh that interaction right there I disagree to a certain extent and the reason why I disagree is because our organization we work in environmental health our main focus is human health and I think what's Happening Here is that everyone's focused on different things for us in order to educate the community on what to look out for whether it's harmful Alo blooms um or when they're out in the field and they're helping us do sampling one of the instructions we have given them is to take the proper channels is to go ahead and report it to the experts to FWC and let them know hey we found this we found a dead fish kill what whatever the case may be we go through extensive programs to sit down we even have had the volunteers that volunteer for us take different types of courses with Labs with environmental scientists with biologists different types of people I think where the issue is first off we have eroded trust with the government and Titusville especially has had its issues throughout the years I recognize that I think we're not on the same page this isn't the first time this has happened and I think that's where the frustration is building up we had an ordeal last year with scobby Park where we started an investigation we also found horseshoe crabs over in that location and we also tested and found high levels of ecoli that prompted us to submit a report to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection which prompted them to come here and do testing I think it would be great if we could have the environmental commission here assist us in creating something building that bridge and creating something that is consistent where we're not feeling like we're buding heads and we're telling people you know oh unreport whatever the case may be like you just explained that and again I don't want it's a feel I know may feel like you're being I'm really devastated and hurt by this because I respect you in this community I respect what you do I respect your passion and your love for the water and again I'm a stakeholder in this community too and often times I'm not treated like that neither is fight for zero and we want to build that bridge and we want to have Titusville looking better but we our job is to teach and educate people and the way we do that is by showing them what the pollution is and why it's important to clean that up I know what we do is unconventional we're not doing what save save the Indian River Lagoon is doing where they're going out and they're showing all the good parts we don't have the fun side of that because we can't teach the health impacts we can't teach the bacteria infections that paralyzed a child in this city we tried to get the city to put up warning signs before that ever happened those are our goals with our nonprofit organization we and it was such a simple ask and maybe that's where this commission can come in and really back that up and say you know you would have saved the city some liability from a lawsuit if you would have just posted the signs and and just last night they did something hypocritical they were talking about putting this massive sign they can't even do that to warn the citizens to warn the citizens that there's harmful bacteria in the waterways and a child a child I am a mother of young children myself and a child was forever impacted by that and so again I'm a stakeholder I teach my volunteers to take the proper channels and I do want to offer a one-on-one meeting with some of my volunteers and maybe we could go over that information so that we have a consistency there if you want to bring your volunteers to Gator Creek I'll be glad to show them what we do there um you know we were trained too we have to go through a training course you know just like your volunteers do every year we have to go through a training course by FWC from the horseshoe crab the point is reporting so the only Point that's being made tonight is that we should have been encouraged to report it just like we should have been encouraged to continue investigating scobby Park cuz that sewage that was going in there that was harming the Lagoon that was harming the waterways it was harming human health that they were standing there fishing or waiting in that Waterway that's all we're asking is if if you're saying something different than that don't report it we need to know why that is because I've talked to numerous agencies across the state and on a federal level and they said that she did the right thing okay I I told you why the horses you crabs were there but um whatever and and I do want to say that this body did recommend to the city that they put up signs and that they put a fence around the contaminated ponds but um that it didn't happen but we did recommend that thank you thank you good evening Kristen LTE Coco resident Bard care citizens Coalition Facebook group founder trying to get all my words in here I W would like to add a point to the the last exchange and that was just that if there was if you had requested the item to be unreported or the activity to be unreported why was that the best thing or was that not the best thing you know and so I don't want to go off on that a limited amount of time but those are open questions from that last exchange so today um I want to start my comment by acknowledging something that is happening this week down in Rock Ledge with The Rock Ledge Tree Drive Massacre of the trees today's Florida Today front page I want to just acknowledge this in our environmental meeting and denounce it I don't have time to speak to it uh extensively I just think it's it's heartbreaking really it's just heartbreaking to watch this happen many of you were here when we had the wind Dixie Massacre a few years ago and I'd like to personally I'd like to denounce the Commissioners on this and specifically this happened in commissioner Goodson's District but it was not objected to by our commissioner pritchet and it was enabled by our County Attorney Morris Richardson so I'd like to say that on the record the next commission meeting is the last one for 7 weeks that is next week on the 21st at 9:00 a.m. for anybody who cares to participate and might have some thoughts on that my topic uh is going to come back to something that I've started talking about last year regarding the performance measures and the metrics this city needs metrics and we were OB confiscated last year because as you know I weighed in heavily last year uh I even helped to put together put together a report on the city manager's performance measures and I do appreciate that at the last meeting that there was an item that was voted on to request the city manager to come here and to provide a presentation on that and I am intending to read some of his performance measures so that we can start getting some of this into our psyche of what the city manager has and I have a questions of outside of you know his objections and where where he's had and he's um giving push back on that how can the city of Titusville have performance metrics how can we be measuring our pollutions in our pollutions out how can the citizens feel comfortable that we have metrics so if it's not this method what is the method Mr Paris last year had said perhaps the Tec can devise its own method but we need metrics Mr MAAC has spoken repeatedly about metrics I think should be some insisting on that in coming up with a process so I would like to read um some of the metrics that the city manager has um very quickly I would like to say that he has included from FY 2024 acqu acquire State revolving fund loan for completion of enhanced water treatment project inspect all industrial Wastewater discharge permit holders advise and hire sustainability staff for Public public work Works to support plant efforts he has developed code amendments to encourage sustainable development and Redevelopment Implement projects utilizing Li and then there are some that were more seem more Lagoon specific to me complete three water quality storm projects reduce nutrient loading entering storm drains by street sweeping operations maintain ospre W wastewater treatment plant within permit limits for nitrogen and phosphorus last year he had included variables of 1,000 lb and 500 lb which seem small to me and that's what we reported back in our recommendations maintain Blue herin Water Wast wastewater treatment plant within permanent limits for nitrogen and phosphorus prevent sanitary sewer system overflows and then maintain 6 millgram chloramine residual to all water system customers per D disinfection guidelines so we end up talking and and Miss Baker gave an excellent comment a few we back about appearances I have spoken about appearances Titusville has plenty of appearances we have this fancy Magazine on appearances let's have metrics let's make sure that we when when you're going for the soral funding again that the citizens are really comfortable as a as a resident I feel like there's some positivity there's some enhanced positivity and I just want the real deal I want to know what the real deal don't I don't need to be confused you know as a voter resident I want that and I just don't feel that things syn up here in Titusville so whe whether torso crabs or trees or metrics you know we need to sync some of these things up and I really implore you all to insist on metrics keep insisting keep voting on it and determine a plan that's workable thank you Miss conin did you want to talk under petitions and requests no ma'am thank you thank you that's it for petitions and requests um all right so um we're on to Old business now so we have the proposed amendment to the Tec bylaws um Mr gendo you want to give us a rundown actually I'll let uh Abby Take the Wheel Abby's at the wheel okay Abby can you give us the rundown on this um yes so if you remember um member y who isn't here this evening he proposed to the commission to consider the removal of item six um which is the petitions and requests um for the public and the commission um voted to add discussion of amending the bylaws to the April 10th 2024 meeting and at this meeting now you will have the ability to vote on the proposed amendment um it should be attached um the striketh through language so that you can see what that would look like and rearranging the order so it would be item six under your order of business let's see and so the recommended action here would be consider the removal of item six petitions and requests from the public present um within um article 9 order of business in the Titusville environmental commission's bylaws um the Alternatives would be to um do not remove item six petitions and requests um so if you wouldd like to take it from there okay um does anybody have any comments not I do okay go ahead member Delgado me go first okay so um I I watch the County Commission um discussion on exactly the same item um last week or a couple of weeks ago and you know there was there was a lot of input from citizens that felt like um it would be wrong to leave them out and make them and and this that's why I wanted to put this that's why we voted to put the petitions and requests at the beginning of the meeting to begin with so because people were sitting in the audience for hours waiting for their opportunity um to to participate in petitions and requests and so there was a lot of discussion but then they they ended up voting um in a positive way to to to move their petitions and requests um or um to towards the beginning of the meeting but it had three stipulations they voted to devote 15 minutes at the beginning of the meeting to petitions and requests now the County Commission gives you three minutes so that would give five people an opportunity to speak and then if there were more than five people everyone else gets to to wait till the end of the meeting um the the uh second um stipulation was that the comments on the petitions and requests could only be on non-agenda items if you want to speak on an agenda item you need to dispill fill out a speaker card the third stipulation that there would be no political campaigning you can't get up and say I'm running for County Commission um so those are the three those are the three stipulations and the the County Commission um voted probably four to one um to to accept that so I would be in favor of you know talking about having something similar rather than just totally killing petitions and requests at the beginning of the meeting I would be willing to Comm you know consider something like that so I'll open the floor for discussion chair chairwoman I just wanted to add real quick that member Perez wanted to share that he didn't support uh removing the public petitions and requests uh he believed that the public should be allowed to comment and that he thought there were other ways of addressing this issue thank you thank you yes and I second that uh I I do believe I I cannot support taking that out uh that people belong in the front we should not make them wait at least not the way it was meant to be but you know they we're here for them so so therefore at the end of the day uh you know at least from my end uh I don't mind going home after 8:30 uh if we need to be because we have people here that want to talk so in that respect I would like to keep it now uh can it be modified possibly I think there there were some good things that came out of the county meeting because there was some good dialogue as to what is it that you have we want to put into that front end but I don't want to constrain it uh to to the point that you know there's there's a there's a path uh that actually blocks the stuff now the political stuff I don't think it has it has a place okay uh to begin with but just about every other stuff as long as within the boundary of what our scope of work is uh should be heard uh good or bad doesn't matter that's what I come once a month and spend the time and listen to it so that's my perspective on that so so I do agree with with uh member Perez and I believe I do agree with you all right thank you anybody else I'm on the same page as you guys are I think it's a requirement that we listen to the public and what they have to say I just I think your idea of having five maybe six we have a 30 minute time frame there since we have 5 minutes per speaker but put a limit on how many how many minutes we devote to that per meeting but still have it at the beginning of the meeting remember m i uh also agree with Tom Perez um member of Delgado and new guy down there member Coy member Coy yes I must learn your name um I predate all of y'all here and I remember when we didn't have petitions and requests we were meeting in the round room down downstairs there was no public we wanted the public but they weren't shown they weren't showing up they didn't know we met everything was behind closed doors essentially and so we decided to put this here I do see one error in that non-agenda items for petitions and requests should be item six right now we just have petitions and requests from the public president to me that should be the second petitions and requests what we want and what we don't want is people coming up at petitions and requests and talking about agenda items when they will have time to talk about that later that to me is redundant and a double use of time that I think we can avoid so if I were going forward my my proposal would be that we make eight number six and the old number six the new number eight and and be done with it that way we have petitions and requests for non-agenda items up front then we have our agenda items and then we can have a petitions at the request for anybody left they can talk about whatever they want including what we voted on I'd like to hear the aftermath from them too so if we were going forward that would be be my suggestion but I would not against this particular motion to approve so I would vote to deny well you want to make a motion that we move 8 to six and and and and then move six to8 I I think and I get the evil eye there from Eddie I think what we have to do is make a motion to change it again chairwoman we have four cards on this item too yeah I I would have to make a motion to change it again and then we'd have to bring it back before the Tec to vote on that change because it's got to be here in writing before us before we can vote and we're not voting on what's in writing if we do get to the point of making a vote all right well let's listen to the cards then we'll vote on whether we keep this or deny it hold first card uh Tony shiff Shi the historic Norwood house um I think Mr MAAC it it already is petitions number six petitions and requests from public present non-agenda items and back here number nine petitions and requests from public present um I'm I'm public present and I'm here to say I think it needs to be upfront there are other ways to regulate um I I understand the Genesis of a lot of this because it's Rippling through I'm sorry yeah I'm looking and pardon me Tony just a point of order I'm looking at the change with the red line that that's it's not red black line you don't see the strike through but the striketh through here says number six says petitions and requests from the public present Miss shif saying our agenda says from the public present non-agenda items which is what see the one that's published there says non- agend items a strike through does not say that discrepancy what's on the agenda is simply item number six oh you're right it does say non-agenda items look at but look at what we're being asked to vote on I know what we're being asked to vote on that's why I was confused so it it's actually correct in our agenda the way it's written it's it's okay written incorrect in in what in this in the staff report that's fine okay I can live thank you time I I um just wanted to say that already out out of the three items that you listed you know um limiting it to 15 minutes the first time number two and number three we already do um everybody's very well trained that we limit our speeches to three minutes and there is uh already been expressed no politicking at the people's Podium remember I got this for us um I love it I just admire it thank you so I'm not going to waste any more time but um what I wanted to say is that please don't remove it from the beginning of the meeting because sometimes it does give you things to think about and I don't mean to get into long discussions that's another way maybe we could regulate it is to say thank you Miss chaa that's a great suggestion and then later on item number 11 which is discussion of future agenda items you put it there and say okay now we're going to consider this um so that keeps it short for people that are up here using our three minutes to present things that are on the uh not on the agenda and I do like the idea of being able to speak except if you've already spoke at the first one the rules are you can't speak at the second one uh Christen lordy Christen LTE Coco resident passionate supporter of public participation I'd like to once again um pay back off of something that miss Sho just said it is not it is corrected in the council meeting that there's a before or end but not at this meeting and I like that at this meeting and I like that Mr M just called remember myj just said that you know there can be things that come up that somebody wants to talk to at the end of the meeting meeting so my position is if it's not broke if if it's let's see cuz I know I like my mind goes into analytical places but we're trying to fix something through policy in that is not the part that's broke if there is a breakage we are trying to fix something by by penalizing the public participation and that is not the fix and quite frankly I would actually say that while I can acknowledge that meetings go some hither and the thither after someone puts forward a petition or a request it's really not us that's happening because the time clock is running it's actually because you guys discuss what has come up and truthfully I like that so I would rather have a messy meeting where you actually discuss an idea that I'm presenting while I'm here right here in front of you than to have all this extra layers of having to come back or it goes to Nowhere or someone has forgotten about so I would rather have what you guys are already doing than to punish the public and put us to the end of the line now with the adjustments I am also an expert at the County Commission and I have been studying their policy and how well or not well it works their former policy of trying to put the public at the end has failed so miserably that even they have to adjust it now the only reason why the tenants that Miss Thompson that chers and Thompson noted got into that is because our commissioners are so parsimonious with their public participation policy that in order to get the votes that's what was needed so now the Commissioners are in that now they have a lottery system that will will likely happen which we may never see as the members of the public because exactly which five members of the public will get to speak at the beginning of the meeting do you have any faith that it will be the first five speak cards that they get or do you wonder if it will be one of the Commissioners chosen people who just man just happens to have their card pulled first so they don't have to sit through the 4-Hour meeting or the three-hour meeting or the two-hour meeting so they have opened themselves up still even with what they attempted to do to more public complaint and scrutiny and the whole campaign idea where we're campaigning I mean you're fixing once again an issue that is really not there I don't do not believe as commissioner pritchet personally that has some issue with believing that there's campaigning I haven't witnessed it what happens though is that when members of the board receive criticism they can perceive it as someone is campaigning as when I recently gave consent agenda comments and which Mitch pritchet said that I was campaigning from the Das and I'm not even a candidate so that is a slippery slope it's just a slippery slope so please please just leave this the way it is if you want to have shorter meetings then you would need to adjust how you do the discussion make it a future agenda item whatsoever but the public should not be penalized so I want to make sure that I said that oh I want to add that on the on the meeting minutes I didn't I didn't want to take time under that one but this is a meeting minutes item about this I felt that the I wanted the meeting minutes to contain more robust discussion from last month about the commissioner discussion and then also my comments because I made some um some targeted comments about this one of which was that I talked about the Roberts Rules of Order In which I did go to the the workshop that I told you about that the meeting was happening last week and one of the items that they said was that meeting minutes can get changed at any time so I'm just referencing that I want the my comments to be stated in full I appreciate when they are I ask that they are and I think that there are ways to run a medeia more efficiently without punishing us and and that the city council if we want to run it more efficiently the city council manages to get through every meeting through the petitions and requests and it really doesn't slow it down that much so you know if you have to have a time constraint and you decide not to talk about it they do it that way but I happen to like the fact that the way you guys do it now hears from everyone you are you currently have one of the best policies in bravard let's name that and you are considering doing something different and and setting yourselves up for some a lot of uh public complaint so please don't do that thank you I I'm going to need a clarification from you miss lordy you said that you thought it was okay for people to get up and say I'm so and so and I'm running for County Commission it is okay for someone to announce themselves at the podium and as has been done um it is okay for me to say my name is Kristen and I'm running for County Commission what's not okay and Titusville has a policy so the city council has a policy what's not okay is if I give you a stmp speech after that and Mr Sheridan just did it the state Senate candidate he just did it a couple weeks ago he has you're you're able to put a badge on and then you can announce yourself but then you're expected to speak to the item or to something that is relevant to the meeting so that's the thing but because there's been confusion here in city council because one of the members of city council tried to interrupt that with the point of order recently but I went back and circle back and I had the mayor and he went talked to the lawyer and that individual uh which is uh spoke here before they then announce themselves as the commission candidate and then they were not interrupted so I believe that a person can announce himself and wear a name badge but they cannot politic from the podium they can't you know and so I just don't see the point of adding something into into the charter that is currently not an issue you're not having an issue here with that problem and if you do it is a slippery slope okay okay thank you next Estelle belly Bailey St Bailey Coco Florida um I just want to point out first and foremost for everybody that's watching there's five people here there's five citizens here and four of them spoke during the first public in petitions I also want to say how refreshing it is to be Pro citizen and to want the citizens to engage and to get involved with their government and to recognize that thank you so much we need more of that in this County as a whole because people are often saying that they feel so unheard that they feel that their their voices are silenced and they don't feel comfortable coming up here as it is and so to encourage that that is so refreshing and I just want to mimic what she was saying is you have the best policy in bravard County be known for that and um outside of that I I I am grateful for the first the first five minutes I'm against changing it right now again you don't have a lot of people in this meeting and I'm one of those people that doesn't take up usually my full time so you have people like me that come into these meetings and won't speak for the full five minutes and so I don't like policies that um that punish other citizens because you don't like what another Citizen's doing so again thank you Elizabeth Baker so what they said um please don't remove this nobody should ever have their voice taken away in any capacity um and encourage the public to speak often and to speak loud is exactly what we should be doing I am 100% with Mr MAAC Mr Perez that we don't this is unnecessary uh just there not too many people show up here anyway so give us all a chance give us all a chance to speak as often as we possibly can thank you than um yeah I would um make a motion that we reject the uh changes to the proposed Charter Tec B excuse me I make a motion that we uh reject the proposed changes to the Tec my second second all right there's a motion by member maack seconded by member Delgado that we de reject the um proposed changes to the Tec um um schedule all those in favor say I do we need a motion um a roll call vote on this oh yeah probably yeah we probably do Lor Vice chairman maack yes member COI yes member Delgado yes chairwoman Topson yes all right so now I I have a question it is it is correct in this document that is the agenda but it is not correct in this document that that is our package so that's an update that we'll have to make in our agenda software it autog generates the format and it must not have been updated the last time so we don't have to like vote to bring this back to the next meeting good okay so um now we're on to item 7B the Titus will environmental commission powers and duties so we H you have that um in your packet we started talking about it at the last meeting there were some some things that were suggested but then it it looked like it was going to run long so we voted to move it to this meeting so open the floor for discussion it's there's the suggestions we made are in the minutes well I I made notes on my thing the and the note that I have is under um section 31-121 powers and duties under Section B specific responsibilities um number two let's see to review and make recomend mendations to the Planning and Zoning commission and the City Council on Environmental water resources and environmental sustainability issues pertaining to the adopted comprehensive plan of the city of Titusville someone said we should make this this item number two it should be item number four under item five yes okay I remembering yeah you made that suggestion and then and the other thing was that um under under item number five number I I recommending incentives for residents businesses developers and organizations to practice Environmental Conservation and Sustainable Building practices your um your proposed plan fits right into that the um the urban urban the native the N native plant landscape trust for fund that would be a perfect example of that five I I um and those are the only the other other thing was um member y suggested removing you have the minutes what did he suggest and we have a tree ordinance we have a tree preservation ordinance protection ordinance we need to spend $2 per capita on urban forestry we are not doing that and we need to celebrate Arbor Day we did that we need that capital budget to build and grow our Urban forest and that needs to be overseen by the tree board and that's us and so this powers and duties indicates that we're supposed to have a budget in order to be and operate as the tree board and build our Urban forest with that budget and that's that's not happening and that's in conflict with our powers and duties right and what's happening with the $2 per capita right now is it's being used to trim trees and maintain trees and take out trees by by the public works department it's not being used to establish and maintain an urban Forest but but it's actually worse than that because there's 400 and some thousand dollar in that fund yeah and most of that money was used for The Monuments to advertise Titusville as you come into the city so the the money's being diverted has been and has been diverted by city council voting earlier the earlier councils yes and that's where the money is and that's how the money is being spent if if you look at how many trees have been planted when we got that data it was like four and uh it we don't do that then that you know we cannot administer something we do not own and we brought that that that point up for the same reasons well all right so what what do you guys suggest that we do do we do we add add the language that member re suggested to the power specifically to the powers and duties under specific responsibilities um where is the part about oh okay so I item [Music] number six it that's where um it talks about establish Titusville as Tree City USA and act as the tree board it shall be the responsibility of the tree oh I remember now he said he said get rid of all all of that other language there and then insert the four duties instead of yeah instead of us administering the plan for pruning and planting and replanting removal and disposition of trees and sh shrubs in parks along streets and all the other public areas the public works department is they're already doing that with our $2 per capita no they're not well they're knocking trees out of the roadway like they are in rockage and we are not seeing any budgetary identification of those $2 per capita none of it I want to see a line item I want it says Tree City acts as Tree City USA that's us acts as a tree board that's our responsibility and those identification marks there from Tree City are are part of our requirements to manage that per capita and right now we're not getting to do that that's not that's a responsibility that's not being granted to us even though it's listed in our duties and about a year ago bill kleene asked for an accounting of where the $2 per capita was going and and Public Works did give us a a a a report they rolled it into another expenditure see it's covered here there's no budget line item whatsoever for the $2 per capita to cover trees there's just a general road maintenance budget and they're saying we're spending it here right well is that what the tree board USA voted on no why why because we weren't asked why because we're not acting as a tree board we're not doing the duties we're assigned in this so would you ask what what I do I would make two motions the first one would be that we would move two under 54 five do I I I I and then two second motion we're going to fix this thing with the tree board and either make a request of city council that either we amend this and fix it or we find another tree board that can do this because we're not being granted the the capability and the resources by our city to execute this requirement and I know we're going to have some cards so before we make a motion that's that's what I'm thinking let's listen to the cards just have one chrisan ory oh okay Christian LTE tree lover Coco resident and tree lover so as I'm thinking about this funding issue and where the money has gone and so I've definitely aware of Mr Klein's persistence in talking about this lost budget and the tree beautification project and back to appearances rather than let's just plant trees my advocacy would be to make a motion to get the budget right so to have the the $2 per tree and to to to insist on that and to insist on it by just making the motion we want to see the budget we want the accountability for the number of trees that are planted each year and to have that visibility because that visibility isn't there it's not currently there I would like to see the city petitioned to do it the right way how where however things happened wherever the money has gone the even for these minimal it sounds like you're what you're discussing is the modest request about the tree board and that $2 you know or whatever but that there just has to be a budget of money so that you can see and then you know I don't know how the the rest of it gets faked in about saying you know we're we're uncomfortable being a tree board really what you're saying is I'm uncomfortable being a tree board because we're not planting enough trees I don't have visibility into the money uh and the funding and how this happens and I think it's a reasonable request so I think the reasonable request to council is to make that motion and to insist on it and uh and to continue continue petitioning and then if there's silence on it as I talked about last month is to make sure that that request is reflected in your by anual report so that it's clear to yourselves to the resident so if if they if they continue denying it at least it's documented make sure the minutes are right on your request that your request is accurate enough and get it logged into the report and then many of everyone already speaks at City Council meetings at least two of you speak regularly at City Council meetings to keep this on the Forefront but I'd always rather try to use the budget we have use the policy we have and just do it right you know and and get it right now so that's my advocacy thank you thank you I I I agree with her I mean we have a list and we've looked at this thing a bunch of times we we should be doing what's on this list I don't see anything that we could change other than your suggestion of moving B2 to where it came under five I I I it so it would become five I I IV so why don't you make a motion for that to begin with let's get that done all right so I'll make a motion that uh let's see how they section 31-121 B2 we move to 13 121 B5 subp paragraph 4 is there a second I'll second all right is there any additional discussion all right um we need a roll call vote Lori member Delgado yes member COI yes Vice chairman maack yes chairwoman Thompson yes okay now do you do we do we want to create like a under under B6 do we want to create a a like four eyes like one eye two two eyes three eyes and a IV and add those four items that memory out suggested so so we would be it would it would see how five has these eye things six would have the eye things and they would include these let's four criter m okay we're done playing with the microphone member yant recommended that we have four subsections under six so 61 or I would be maintain the tree board two have tree or have a tree ordinance three spend $2 per capita on urban forestry and four the celebrate Arbor Day and we would put those as subsections under Section 121b six is that up for discussion is there a second oh I can make that a motion too oh yeah okay making a motion I'm sorry I didn't know if we wanted to discuss it first well okay all right Lori so here's the motion that we make four sections subsections under B6 here the first be to maintain the tree Board second have a tree ordinance third spend $2 per capita on urban forestry and four to celebrate Arbor Day got that okay we have a motion all second all right so we have a motion by member my Jack it's been seconded by member Coy um I guess we need to discuss are there any is there any discussion yes please on six the word administer a plan to care preservation pruning planning replanting removal disposition of trees shrubs and all of that we don't do any of that we know we know we don't we need to take it out no but we need to take it out well but but let's let's vote on adding the four no no the four I'm good with the four but I'm looking for come back and remove this language with will that work I'm good with that okay are there any cards Lori just okay we did the cards never mind okay all right so all all those in favor of adding the four stated you know requirements to be a tree City to to be under um under Section 31-121 powers and duties we would add those four requirements under six B6 um we need a roll call Vice chairman my ja yes member delado yes member COI yes chairwoman Thompson yes okay okay now let's work on removing language that we don't think should be there since we don't have the powers to do it anyway okay it's not that we don't we're given the powers this document by our city council gives us these Powers the shall be the responsibility of the tree board that's that's us to study investigate Council develop and update annually and administer a plan for the care preservation pruning planting replanting removal and disposition of trees and shrubs in the city that's what we're supposed to do that's our job why would you want to remove our job qualifications given to us by our city and Tree City USA that's my question because Mr Parish showed us a budget that said that there was $450,000 and the money was allocated by Council a year ago or two years ago and took that money away from the Tree City and that money now is been used to pay for a little bit of pruning a few trees and The Monuments and therefore that money is not touchable by us that's a different partt of money that's a completely that's a completely different partt of money yeah that has nothing to do with the $2 per capita that's money that developers are paying when they take out all the trees when they make a new subis fund that started in '96 and when a developer took out a tree that was 6 in dbh or larger there was a a a fee a fee associated with that and that fee was requested that whole process was requested by the St John's River Water Management District because they realized it was overdevelopment and silting and everything else that was flowing in the gr that was poisoning it so that was the process that later got changed some six years later to a beautification fund which changed it from being just about trees and replacing trees because we weren't replacing ing trees CU we weren't following this task here so now here we are years later and we want to remove that even further where we're not doing anything for the trees well I'm sorry we're supposed to be building an urban Forest we're supposed to build an urban canopy in that Urban forest and we have a budget here of $2 per person as required by Tree City USA to build that Urban Forest we have not been granted the use of that budget or oversight of that Urban Forest yet and yet this is our responsibility and if this is where we're going then I want that responsibility I want that budget and I want to make this happen it's either that or bust so if we're going to stay at Tree City USA we need to make a motion to the city council that we get this implemented or we punt on Tree City USA because we can't in my opinion justify being or calling ourselves a tree City USA if we're cutting down thousands of Acres of trees and planting one if that survives because there's no maintenance plan what we're talking about is about $96,000 a year if if if we have 48,000 people in Titusville which I think we probably do by now that's $2 ahead that's $96,000 a year figure 100 Grand and and so but if you I guess the the the position of the public works department is that they are pruning and removing disposing of trees we can fund our own arborist outright through this commission with that money to take care of the trees in Titusville full-time and have money left over and we would do a better job than we're getting right now okay so that's all great and I agree with you but the bottom line is we're not getting that money okay so if we don't get the money then that needs to come out Fisher cut bait Fisher cut bait this is where we are and this is where we were the last time we had the same dialogue and and and I spoke to the same dialogue because I cannot be held responsible for something that I cannot do I learned that very quickly in my career working out there uh it only gets in trouble because then somehow they're going to say how come you're not doing this and somebody's going to say that and they should okay so right now we are not doing this no we are not being a tree City we do not have anything that qualifies for a tree City right now we planted one tree at our day cuz I was there it was nice I was there I went to see and they put one tree if it survives okay and I was like wow okay so that's $2 uh so this is where I am this is my my issue with voting to have this paragraph mic in there with the word administer with the word preservation with the web pring and all of that because again Mr perish show us data that says this is how the city spending the money it was from public works and it was this year sometime that he passed out the data and so Choice guys we well but we have the choice right now I you know if we're advocating keeping this then there's got to be another leg that says how do we get the money okay if indeed the council says no you don't get the money then there's got to be a way to come back and take that out because otherwise I cannot vote for that I I I just I have feel very badly to vote for something that says Thou shalt and I can't I cannot produce it I cannot manage it I cannot administer right so we're there that's the whole point well we're there that's that was why I brought up the subject last time we're there we are there we're being asked to do things that we are not capable of doing because we are limited on our resources so the way I see we need to do this now is take the new six as amended and offer that up to city council are we going to still be a tree City USA if so we need to honor tree cities requirement and have this budget of $2 per capita identified and under the control of tree board USA for building an urban forest and maintaining and managing that Urban forest or Punt and not be a tree City anymore take down take down all the signs that are all over all the signs and stop advertising it and continue mowing down trees at thousands acres per per spot I I don't it's one or the other either we're going to be a tree City or we're not but we're not going to say we're a tree City and then not do what a tree City requires us to do correct so um then we have to take this to the city council because I think we just pull out the language item six with the with the new II things that we added to it it's either this or bust and I guess one of us has to go to the city council and and asks for it to be an agenda item that way we can get public comments so that needs to be a motion that we we take item number six and ask ask it to be an agenda item at a city council meeting so we can talk about this thing I don't I don't know what else to do I won't be here I know you won't be here you're our strongest Advocate but you know I can motion but somebody else will have to go and speak to it you can send emails from Maine I guess I can send email but that's not the same as being here and answering questions sorry we can postpone this till you get back but that's not till October right it's not like anything's going to change other than we're still a tree City when we're not or claiming such we haven't been a tree City for years I agree we've never been a tree Tre City not according to Tree City standards we have not in my estimation yeah so I think I don't know if it makes it an agenda item wait it course it's it ends up being on the agenda it's just in the beginning of the agenda where boards and commissions and things pop up yeah okay it's either that or or when we to go to City Council doesn't it end up on the city council agenda there's a section of the city council agenda for boards and commissions and recommendations would show there and so if we make a recommendation this would go there so it would be an agenda item so people could speak on it in the in the public there's a sec yeah there's a section okay well it it will it's not going to appear on the agenda right away anyway and then they're taking the month of of June off so the earliest it would appear um on the agenda is sometime in July and and Eddie do we do we does the Tec meet in June we continue to meet even though the the city council doesn't meet right so we would have time to talk about it more during our our June meeting if you guys want to pursue that you have June 12th and July 10th um the next upcoming meetings so you do have meet meeting scheduled for June and July I I would like to see and Bill Klein probably has it but I'd like to see that document that came from Public Works that listed year by year exactly what they spent on each thing you know and and there was like very some tree I think one year they might have even planted 28 trees and then there was another year where they planted two and but I'd like to see that document yeah if we can if Bill Klein still has that document can it be emailed out to the Tec members if we can get it Abby um are you refer refering to the um spreadsheet that's filled out by public works for TriCity USA certification I have that I can upload it for you on agenda star real quick if you would like to have it but I can also email it as well okay yeah I don't think we need it right now tonight but I I think we could talk about it at the next meeting it to Let's punt it to the next meeting you understand the discussion Bill know you came in late not fully but but I have some of it okay so what we've done is under Section 3121 powers and duties we have moved section B2 to under B5 so that it's now five and five has four SE subsections okay that's been voted on and done now we're we're deciding on what to do with with six which is the whole Tree City piece and we've added four subsections under that that bill Yan had um suggested that's what I got I got that right so now the question is this piece this what's written in six we have not been properly resourced or enabled to implement as a tree City USA and so it's become a tosset are we going to continue as a tree City if so how are we going to address these these oversights that the Tre tree board has not been priv to or punt the idea of being a tree City entirely and and take this section out this is this is what we're going to be talking about at the next meeting and so I'd make which is June 12th I would make a motion that we move this item to June 12th uh Tec meeting for continued disposition um July 10th was it July 10th well that's no this one will be going to June 12th yeah can't see calendar there all right the motion was made by member my Jack to move um continue this discussion at the June 10th June 12th June 12th June 12th yeah meeing I may not be here then we me I would just like to remind you that um June 12th is the scheduled Tec workshop for the natural resources public engagement activity so I just want to put that on your radar when you're deciding this didn't I say the 10th of July in that motion I thought I said the 10th thank you won't be Jun you won't be it's my birthday that's also the public opportunity for public comment on this SpaceX Starship Eis is that the first uh in person it it might be the second in person it's the second in person I think so June 12th doesn't look like a very good date so let's make it July 10th July 10th okay so we're going to go ahead and make a motion motion to table section six as amended to the July 10th meeting of the Tec is there a second second are there any cards I have I my do they do that at the County Commission by the way do they do that we know at the County Commission they so lenient so I didn't there was all my time the first time and you are about to make a second vote so I just want to make this mention to you that you know really all you're talking about is insisting on this budget right that's the main thing you want the budget so the spreadsheet no matter what it says is going to be a spreadsheet that shows you a couple trees or you know I mean I think I've seen the spreadsheet myself and you're punting it and then you're going to take more time later and my question to you is what if you just simply had a vote to say we want to put it on the city council agenda to have a budget for this I'm less on the or else side you know or else we're not going to be a tree board folks on what you want always keep what you want in your sites so you want the budget if you ask to put it on a city council agenda you can have the other spreadsheet added to it at that time but that puts it away so we don't have to you you don't have to talk about it all over again you know what you want and I support that so I support the idea of just going for the budget the tabling of it pushes it again then we also talk about it later I didn't hear a compelling reason around that so anyway I just like you if you do you do but I think there's a a good argument to say what if you just voted now put it on the city agenda at that time oh and by the way member my Jack you guys took an a unanimous vote for him to be able to participate remotely which we did not hear anything back from the city but you guys did do that and it could be REM mentioned again so that you could participate still this summer in being an effective and you know I see the eyebrows go up that that might not go anywhere but regardless um that would keep the thing moving faster without having to revisit it again and I support the idea either way go for the budget ask for what you want thank you thank you expediency shouldn't Trump common sense and we get very few shots often at sending queries to city council it makes more sense to me to even though I'm not here to allow the Tec to think about it in depth and get the right solution because it's not just about a spreadsheet it's about program management it's about the direction of our forest as you've seen it's grown immensely by one tree this year that's if you don't count the thousands we've taken down so I want to get this right I want us to be a proper authorized Tree City USA and I want us to be able to grow and sustain that canopy that Urban forest and this is the Clause that empowers us to do so it's not just about the budget and here's a line item and how we've taken care of your tree pruning over the streets of Titusville it's also about the watering and the maintenance and where they go and how they get pruned and there's so much more like I said the $2 per capita as is uh chairman uh Thompson said would be more it's more than enough to pay for our own arborus powered by the Tec you know and still have money left over for some maintenance so there's there's a budget that goes along with operating as a tree City and there's administrative functions that this Board needs to be doing that we're not and I want to see those happen so that's why we need to to punt this now so that we can spend more time and get these details right before we simply make a a a halfhearted motion going forward if you don't mind me quickly asking um I just wanted to verify that um the interest to table um amending item B6 to the July 10th meeting um there was also a motion made previously um about um section B2 creating um item four or moving moving item two I apologize under um five and making it a sub paragraph 4 would you like to table that to July 10th or would we like that to move forward okay okay goes forward Ved on that what we talking about now this discussion is whether or not to bring this item to city council for removal entirely or choose to continue to be a tree City and execute ABCD which we have yet to Define one of them being the budget and accounting and the administrative issues there there's several of them but it's now the question that's on the on before this board is whether or not we're going to be a tree City or not and if we are then we need to implement it fully and not partially all right so there's a motion did did anybody second it to to table table this till July 10th table all right table he already did all right there's a motion motion by member my Jack and it was seconded by member Delgado to table this discussion um about the tree City thing until July 10th all those in favor say I do we need a roll call for this no yes all right all in favor say I any opposed motion passes unanimously okay um moving on to um item C the native Municipal landscape trust fund um we'll let you take that member my Jack okay again um I hopefully you guys got a chance to review the stuff I sent you so as we've learned earlier um Bill Klein did a a really good breakdown of how and where the um funds had come from for our beautification and our trees and the the native landscape uh trust fund is sort of a a cumulative culmination of where we came from and where we need to go so I think of this as the same form of tree mitigation except that it's it's a little broader it's native plant mitigation and that allows us the ability then to create an incentive infrastructure to promote the proper development of liid developments and the repopulation of native plants and have enough left over to help maintain and manage uh an urban Forest environment through this process that as we're developing that we take some of that incentivize the uh the approach of of native trees and plants for motion well yeah I guess in a in a way I I wanted this to be something that that we would all do as a policy you know that this is something that the entire Tec Gets behind and I didn't think by any stretch of the imagination that what I've proposed so far was complete you know and or necessarily even concise but I wanted to try to cover the basis of where I thought we could incentivize um low impact development and incentivize the restoration of native plantings and that will move us away from so much Hardscape that uh and and storm water runoff because native plantings and Native Gardens tend to absorb much more storm water than than than sod does quite frankly so it's a policy change for the city but it's a Direction with which we can we can grow and beautify the city and help manage our storm water in a far better way one of the things I learned was that it costs an average of $45 to plant and maintain a tree in a city but it reaps $135 in benefits in storm water reduction and storm water system use so if you ask people that understand the finances it's like plant as many trees in your city as you can because the heat island effect and all the benefits are well well worth it and this puts us on a path um in that direction so the native landscape trust fund is what I called it and and I think that it's something that the city could embrace so this would be different than um the fines that they're paid into that are being paid into the um the the mitigation fund F when they when they destroy trees this would be that mitigation this would recover the intent of the original tree mitigation except that we're broadening it from not just trees but we also want to consider the native plantings I think impacts to Native uh uh non-developed non-disturbed uh land should be higher than those that are Disturbed you know if something's already been been built upon and you're developing then the impact from that is a whole lot less but I still think there should be a benefit to them if they use low impact development and they regain some some of that development fee back impact fee or whatever you want to call it but but we have this um canopy preservation policy that people are paying money if they you know are taking out more the canopy and and and not you know not adhere into the canopy policy so you're you're pres you mean the preservation ordinance yeah yeah I understand that this this doesn't subsume any of that what what we're what I'm proposing is that we initiate essentially an impact fee for the impact that it's having that this development this new development is going to have on on our city there's there's impacts to sanitary sewer there's imp impacts to storm water runoff there are impacts to new Water Resource requirements um all of there's there's excess black water being produced and and effluent that comes out of our sewage treatment all these things have an impact to the city that in one way or another if not covered by the new development get subsumed by everybody and it makes everybody's expenses to live in the city more and I don't think everybody wants to be paying more taxes to help some developer create a new developer I think what we should be doing is proper properly appropriately charging an impact fee based on that development not following Li and when they do then they don't get as much of an impact fee I mean it's an incentive in that sense and how much they get back depends on well if they do L I think they should get half of it back let's just say that and if they get 80% native plantings or more then they should get another 25% and remaining quarter will be used then to do the management and maintenance of growing our canopy throughout the city so this this um impact fee would be over and above if there's a a punishment for taking out too many trees in the tree canopy protection the tree mitigation fund would still continue this would be in addition to the tree mitigation actually the tree mitigation fund has gone away that was subsumed in a beautification fund which then got turned into our Monument fund okay still there still yes there are still fines that supposedly are being imposed on developers who who can't follow the the because the protein pre protection ordinance says if it's 20 inches or bigger then then they get fine used to be six right I know all right and maybe we should go back to six inches and start making that mitigation fee based on a 6inch diameter tree and up and that that's how this gets fueled but it has to be something to to that effect it has to be some number and to me I would do I would prefer this native landscape trust fund be what the old tree ordinance was but broader and with a purpose and that purpose being to actually grow an urban forest and to make manage and maintain that Urban Forest at the same time we're also allowing promoting new development to use Li and and native plants that's that's a win-win in my book and the more native plants we have the more birds we have and you know it's just it's a win-win any other fund is gone yeah we're building monuments now big concrete structures without any leads is that what the fund's called you can ask it's still called a tree mitigation fund and it's not gone because they set a goal of once a certain amount of monuments are created then we get to split that fund 5050 and the city gets to make monuments with 50% and we get 50% as tree mitigation money it might you know probably won't happen in my lifetime that we achieve that goal but that's that's what was decided at a city council meeting I know that's we get we never get 100% of the things we don't ask for I want Titusville to grow a tree canopy I want an urban Forest that's Lush that we're proud of and that's not going to happen if we don't make any moves in that direction uh how many monuments have they done this past year zero how about last year zero oh so this fund is really big and fat with money I'm sorry so the 400 and some thousand although it exists on a spreadsheet as a totality has already been dissected by earlier consoles okay The Monuments are coming you will see them at every entrance to Titusville it's it's already been playn and that that is what the problem is and then whatever is left then it goes into some maintenance that the city has been doing which is very minimal and that is what that is what my beef has why is it taken so long because monuments are expensive okay if you make them big enough with enough with enough Glitz okay they do take time they take engineering they just you don't buy it you know from a catalog and and and so it takes planning it takes positioning it takes all those things that City takes time to do in the meantime you're amassing money but it's going into that fund not they're not monuments they're gateways gateways yeah gateways welcome to tville that's what they are but anyway that that's that those are my words and because they increase the size of the U the mitigation size of the tree they're funding it at a lower rate now right yeah there's not as much money rolling in as there once was okay so where is there not a monument I thought every time you come in town you see something we we have those welcome to Titusville the the center for nature and space things I think we got one on Highway 50 we got one at at um bra by the ABC Liquor Store there where else is there one store yeah by the liquor store yeah I those are the only oh there's one on Garden Street too yeah there at Singleton and Garden Street there's one more corners or just yeah oh no no they're going to do more I mean like like they even were going to do they were going to make make Hopkins and Sycamore Avenue a Gateway now after they got a lot of blowback from the community they took that one out and they took a few more just really unnecessary ones out but they want to do one up by the hospital along US1 they want to do one at Garden Street in 995 I think and and and South Street so they they left some in they did they did take the ridiculous ulous ones out but they they want they want these gateways um we I think we we persisted and and we got them to agree not to use I think non-native palm trees in the design they have they have to use native palm trees in in in their landscape package at the gateways they're going to use palm trees yep but but they won't be using Sylvester Palms if you notice how many of them are dying around town now all over the place Michael I mean I think we have our hands full with item number six and try and trying to get control of the tree City $2 per capita budget and you're going to be out of town I myself am not crazy about trying to do this and this at the same time while you're out of town because the these are you know these are they're very important and I don't I don't want to blow this and and I I feel like you need to be here this is your baby I feel like you need to be here to help us present this because I think it's a I think it's a good idea and and and it and it's viable and it's necessary and if it if there's some way that we can encourage the developers to use Li and and to improve their storm water um features and you know and and figure out how to send the water West instead of dumping everything into the Lagoon it's really important we need to put it back on the ground I think we need to postpone this until you get back that would be November 13th meeting of the Tec I could I could we could table it until the 13th if that's agreeable what do you guys think you want to take this on or you on table you can take it on while I'm gone or we can table till I get back up to y'all but I can wait but what I would like to propose is do a little more research on how the money gets not seen as uh punishment or a tax or a fee okay that there's got to be some and I can help you with some of that some economic analysis that that shows that we get back more than what we they put in and they get back more than what they put in and they meaning the developers then why don't we kick it down till July and let you guys work on that while you don't have to vote on it or make a decision until I get back but but if we don't do that it'll be seen as a fee it'll be seen as a tax and it'll be it it'll be a punishment and that's not what we want it needs to come across as an incentive it is it exactly exactly and and and it needs to be again in an economic analysis it needs to be shown that for every dollar they put in this is what the people Titus will get this is what the city gets okay and so you know it's it's got work in my opinion in that Loop uh just asking for $2 or $3 or whatever I don't think it's going to cut it with anyone it and and you got the right percentages I think I I keep looking at I just got a formulate in my mind how do how do we get an analysis that that shows uh a projection of in 5 years in two years in in three years sure this is what the city can save this is what the city can say save at at at the water plant this is what the city can save at the sewage plan and this is the amount of a fluent that we can take out from the river and quantify that you know if the city manager can having his metric like he did last year the amount of lumber that he picked up on the river by weight he was used as a metric I'm sure we can do an analysis that that goes a long ways from that and actually have some meat to it and some points and we can go to city council and said listen guys for every dollar we're going to ask them to expend you're going to save three that opens some eyes so that's my two cents in that and I'm willing to help with that and I don't see why we should why we it's going to take some time of course so let's kick it to July and if you have time spend some time and kick it to August or whatever and but keep it keep the ball rolling until I get back yeah and um I mean make some progress on it the idea was prog for all of us to to share this is all right so shall I make a motion to table it until the July 10th meeting that okay with every Okay so make that motion we table this subject till July 10th is there a second I second and a motion by member my Jack oh there's a card Kristen lordy Christ L and I just want to comment on this one to um give you some feedback of where I'm at because I've been listening to it for the past couple of meetings so I'm open to the idea it sounds really neat you know the the intention of it and to wanting to um build this and to be able to have some money to do the things that you want to do and you know that part makes sense the question that I have is is the part of the impetus for doing it is that the city hasn't done right on the original pot of money that we thought we had right which is the tree mitigation fund and the Gateway projects you know and all of that where that has gotten spent and so the question I I've a couple questions one of them is is where would the confidence be that let's say this goes well the policy gets adopted and now we have the money coming in what's the how would the confidence be there that this new pot of money is going to be protected and used for the thing that it's intended and isn't going to get scooped up and rearranged with some new you know fancy thing or to replace you know something that the the Gateway who knows what it could what the city could come up with so where's the confidence in it and then the other question is is that is there a way and the answer might be no but to put pressure on that original mitigation fund where we're already we already have some policies in place uh for it and is there a way to add these great ideas to that policy and put more pressure onto the city to say listen you guys have to do right and you have to start allocating funds over to this like you promised so I always start with the beginning which is are we positive that we need the new policy and then if if we are positive then once we create it how do we have the confidence that the money won't disappear and that we're not having this new conversation with the second pot of money for the next years those are my questions stated okay okay yeah that's a good statement I mean it in the policy there needs to also be specific places where the money has to be spent I would think so um I when I first Drew this up I was thinking in terms of we what our requirements are from a tree board what what are be we being required to do to manage to build maintain a tree canopy and this is what I thought this funding would fuel into that would be overseen by the tree board it would be managed by the the city's tree surgeon or tree arborist that we would have at our disposal and that our plan for how we're going to grow and run and develop this Urban canopy would be implemented through this plan so my thinking is that that the tree board USA in the city of Titusville would oversee how this fund would be spent and unnecessary on a case- by case basis and I think it should go through the tree board that's why I wrote it up this way so when we pass this MO motion we can when we get this all organized we can Define that then yes absolutely in fact we should have it all defined before we V send the whole package to to council and have it all all detailed out so we have find have time to find out how it got robbed or moved or changed in the first place so it doesn't happen a second time I don't know if beating a dead horse is going to be well you want to put guidelines that keeps it from happening again yes that would be good in fact this sounds like a very good reason why we should have a teec workshop to get the citizens involved to design how we want this plan to go forward that may be something you guys can do during the summer workshops are are in our interest and we're authorized to have them we're authorized to have public hearings and workshops yes to implement our duties mhm and where does it say workshops well I may have used the wrong word I'll go back and find it all right well anyway we have a motion and a second motion by my member my ja seconded by member Y young um to table this until July 10th all in favor say I I I any opposed we're moving on to new business um do we have any new business Abby no we do not okay all right we're back to petitions and requests from the public do we have a rule that you can like in in the city council you can only speak at one of the petitions and requests we do not have that rule we don't have that rule we we we again we intentionally want people to participate in our meetings and so we did not do that and that's why we don't have the non agenda items on the second half all right does anybody want to speak okay okay we're we're on we're moving on to reports um Abby is there a staff report yes um I just wanted to remind you of the natural resources public engagement project that we're in the middle of so we just got past the initial stages of doing the Tec interviews which I hope they all went well for you um and now we're moving into our first open house this month which is May 30th to be held in the council chambers from around 6:00 to 8 p.m. um right now we're still working with the project team to kind of formulate the style of this Workshop but I can kind of give you a brief idea of what this would look like um we're interested in doing like rotating table exercises with staff at each one um so it's going to be like a mobile interactive experience for the public and um Tec um so we will be putting that out on social media soon it went out in our community development newsletter we've been handing out flyers for this the website for this initiative is still live we're still having the idea wall and we're taking input from the public through the survey so please feel free to share the link to that um if you need that again just email me I'll be happy to share that with you again and then we're looking at the Tec Workshop to be June 12th um and then it's tentative but I believe July um we are looking or even past July um bringing back um the draft strategies and recommendations that we receive from the interviews from the openhouse and the workshop and it will allow for feedback in recommendations before we create the final draft so that's just kind of what this timeline looks like if you have any questions or forget what this looks like feel free to email me and I'll be happy to explain it are we getting any um responses from the public are are we gotting comments coming in from the public so the last time I checked I believe I saw five comments on the idea wall so so I think it's still relatively low so I'm hoping that our social media boost will bring more attention to this website and we'll be able to get more feedback and interaction but we this will remain open through the openhouse the Tec Workshop um and when we come back with the draft strategy so there's still time to receive a lot of feedback but right now I think it is still kind of quiet so we're hoping to see that change soon okay thank you um so there were also um in an email is it I think it's here there was a couple of Citizen requests in an email that Brad sent out um so the first thing is that thank you guys for your participation in the interviews I think most most of the Tec members did make it to the interviews good we appreciate your time for that um so theyve the city has received another variance request to allow synthetic vegetation in lie of planting real plants and and and just like what we said would happen now due to the number of variances that have already been approved for people to plant plastic plants and use plastic grass in their yards now more people want to do it so it says on May 28th the staff will request specific direction from the city council to address synthetic vegetation in the code what what does that mean how do you plant synthetic vegetation in the code what what does our code say about using fake vegetation yeah the hope is to get clarification on what council's intent around uh artificial vegetation is it it portions of the code make it sound like there's there could be a conflict and it was never intended and then other portion sound like there could be um reason to believe that it was supposed to be supported so really just want to ask councel what their position is and and whether we're interpreting the code correctly so are these people are they putting like astro turf on their lawns is that what it is so they don't have to water them and mow them big green sheets of Pei yes think about all the plastic pollution that will come oh my God we should be we should be telling the city council that they in no way shape or form should be allowing permitting well anyone from make a motion I'm I'm always the one making Mo well somebody make a motion make the motion all right remember Co make a motion I will say though is that if they're going to allow waivers they need to have something in there that defines what is allowable for the turf because they have no I mean obviously we all of us do not want any sort of unnatural Turf going in there but if they're going to waiver it in any way shape or form they have to have regulations on what's allowable they have biodegradable Turf I'm not saying I like that I'm not saying I want that but I'm saying they can't hold them to anything because they're giving them a waiver but there's nothing there that they can be like hey asked to meet this this and this criter area for the waiver um what is biodegradable Turf made out of grass well it's it's sorry no actually it does exist and it's used as temporary covering for the most part during road construction and what happens is it has a backing of a fabric that decomposes with time in in certain soils and then the material on top uh it is not man-made but it could be compacted soil from other areas and so what you get is basically is a roll of this stuff and do dot puts it to whole erosion for for a while and and that's what it's used but seed uh no it's not cement but it doesn't last but what I was what I was going after is even though the city does not have a definition the city can have a moratorium on using synthetic grass plastic artificial plant until such a time that it gets defined and I think that's what the city should be looking at not trying to chase this rabbit because it's a losing rabbit you're going to lose that one if enough lawyers will get together and they'll go but you already approved it for 100 people why my 102 for1 person cannot have it the city can can can do that they can go after a moratorium and says you know what until we understand this problem we're not going to allow it okay and then buy yourself some time to get the science make the motion okay so so I think the motion is that we propose that the request a moratorium on laying artificial turf plastic vegetation plastic vegetation artificial vegetation okay artificial artificial vegetation non actually nonorganic yeah non organic okay that will go with a long ways but but I believe that the city has a chance to do that and and buy some time to understand this issue this is a new issue that cropped up in a development here in town uh for a lot of reasons but it's not that hard and the city does have it within their power to do that so the motion is to uh propose the city to declare moratorium on the usage of plastic artificial artificial synthetic nonorganic vegetation I think second until it can be resol until it can be defined and resolved okay second still still holds so okay okay and I think the city is within their bounds to do that because they can declare moratorium on just about anything they want uh for the for the the fact that they got to study it they don't understand the problem they just gotten themselves in should we add something about schooling the variance board about this sort of thing if the moratorium is passed the the the boards the they were they were the ones that Grant this in the first place so it seems like some schooling and education may be necessary part of the time they need to do the schooling what is lacking is some knowledge some understanding and what are the consequences that we're buying into and so the motion is to take it up to the city the city council to declare a moratorium on the usage of plastic or non-organic artificial artificial vegetation vegetation until they do a study so can I say something absolutely um you know there's other things they can do are these people in love with this is that's why they're doing it because you can always put um concrete down and paint it green okay uh you can put gravel down okay so there's other things that can be done if you don't want to cut grass okay and so why don't we make something that says you can do those things instead of that should we um come up with a list of uh things that should be done instead of that rabbit hole but that is why you have a moratorium so you can so you can look and study what is available to the public at Lowe's and Home Depot and other places in order to do that while alternative do they have well I I understand what you're have it right now I understand what the moratorium does and I'm I'm trying to think about you know yeah we're putting we're requesting this moratorium but um I think we need to make whoever it is that's doing this aware that there is something else to be done uh maybe they don't know there is something else to be done there's more than and are they yes they okay I'm glad you have confidence that way but um um so you know I I um um there's other things to do other than concrete okay so there's many ways of making your ground except water in different ways uh what asphalt asphalt it's different than concrete yeah but I'd rather not see that but you could always use a con uh red brick don't use that with grass in between um and you can paint it um you can have people do artistic things and like there's some walls that have pictures painted on them and you could paint a picture on your your ground that looks like vegetation so there's other things to be done and why don't they can I call the question so yeah okay okay we get it let me I got to answer this I'm sorry there's a new hamburger place in town Grom 50 and if you go to their parking lot they have done a very nice job of water conservation through the use of very Innovative materials in their parking lot it's not all it's not all asphalt it is not all concrete it actually allows the water to be filtered go have a hamburger over there there yes I just didn't want to do a public service announcement for anybody but but but go over there and just take a look in their parking lot and and see because they did a good job and they're filtering their water they utilized liid for that they did underground retention and perious pavement absolutely no uh if you go to my house um down two blocks from it is a house that that has no grass huh no no what they have is um um Regular plants that are native uh so they planted plants so they have two signs that says that this is native plants not grass don't complain that I'm not cutting my grass so people have bitched that their yard looks like crap with all this stuff all over the place but they have plants that they picked that feed rat abits and birds and and so they don't have to cut the grass okay and so if you first look at it it looks like someone didn't cut their grass but then when you look at the sign and then look at it oh my gosh that's an intelligent brainy person not a that's doing something okay let's let's move on please I don't mean to be ar you know rude but okay there's a motion by member Delgado um who seconded it and seconded by member maack that the Tec advises the city council to initiate a moratorium on granting any additional um variances and put a moratorium on allowing anyone to to use nonorganic vegetation in in their yards all those in favor say I I I I any opposed okay the presentation from NASA that you sent Abby is that just for our information or no or was that requested I request bring it up under report so we're bringing it up under reports okay so we'll talk about that one first um you recall um Jesse Wright came and complained about the gasoline leak from the um Cumberland Farms um gas station he's the property owner to the east which has been impacted by this uh spill and apparently uh remediation is not an option but monitoring is that's all they've been doing for um many years many years yeah about that and the reason that I sent you the presentation on Wilson Corners is because that was a presentation given by NASA back in 2015 on precisely the same kind of problem uh only it wasn't a gas station it was a rocket engine part washing facility and it wasn't just Benzene and gasoline it was trioral ethine and some nasty stuff and Hyper goals too and and so there as you'll see in the presentation there's a monitoring plume of how big this and it's almost to the point where it's reached the Lagoon it won't be long and I wanted you guys on the board here to understand that it's not a unique problem to to Jesse Wright and this gas station we had the option to vote down a gas station in our area of critical concern months back and it was water contamination was the only reason I voted no and everybody else voted yes so I want you to understand going forward these things are very difficult to control to fix to clean up to patch you know you we we said the same thing with nuclear power oh it's fine we'll have dual redundant systems everything will work fine then we had Three Mile Island then we had Chernobyl you know and then we had Fukushima and now we're looking at going all nuclear again because we can't afford to continue burning fossil fuel so you know my point with all of this is that this happened on NASA property in the 60s it happened here in Titusville in the 80s and we're just continuing to take a blind eye to getting this fixed I know that Mr Wright came and complained to city council twice the first time they totally blew it off he came back again when he was actually able to be here and they started listening and there was some good dialogue last night but we as the water board for the city of Titusville should be taking a more proactive role in my opinion for how we would handle and fix and correct or remediate these things because what our city has chosen to do is just hand it off to the Department of Environmental Protection hands off no problem not my fault well what about the people that live next door across the street or across the street who may be contaminated and we don't even know it because they haven't tested and you never find 100% of the things you don't test for and if we're not looking we're not going to find it and we're not looking because we don't want to know because we would have to pay to fix it up and that's just wrong so as the Water Resources board I want to ask you guys what are we going to do to remedy these things going going forward when we find a leak are we going to remediate that or we just going to hand it off to some entity in the state that doesn't really help so that's why that report that presentation is there so take a look at it read it understand what NASA's doing and see why can't we at least do something here the other is that I just got the report uh later part of last week that SpaceX has uh set out an intent to uh ask for an environmental impact study to bring spacex's Starship and the super heavy to launch from Launchpad 39b and they wanted 398 they want 44 launches a year and that's just the initial impact um the assessment we had before for the building that they put out at SpaceX didn't have won't have nearly the environmental impact that these Starship launches will have and I want to let everyone here know that that rocket launching from 39a is going to close off our access to play Linda Beach and if they're launching their at any kind of frequency rate where they're going to be loading and unloading we're our our ability to go and utilize our beach is going to be so drastically curtailed that I don't think the people have an idea of what's going to happen this is just one impact to our quality of life but there's others there's there's the sound the noise from this thing um the Sonic impact and the vibrations the amount of material kicked out as we saw happen in Bach chica there are many many Environmental impacts that we need to be aware of and cognizant of and so the first um of these meetings are coming up in uh in June there's going to be two in-person meetings and then a virtual meeting I don't have the dates for them um for me uh right before me but I did want to let you guys know that these are coming up and that the impact will be significant and we need to make our comments available to SpaceX and to the FAA when they start flying these ships because I want to remind everybody it's not just the FAA and and Starship and NASA it's also SpaceX space Florida um the United States space force and our cruise industry they all want to use this same little plot of land and there's no oversight between any of these top level National organizations so we in Titusville are about to get overrun and we should be making noise and we should be involved and engaged and I hope our city will do so that's my report thanks for that Mike um yeah the Starship is considerably um larger and has a lot more power than the Apollo launches did and the Apollo launches broke windows in Titusville um so this is and and you know the traffic um from all the new people moving here there's a lot of impacts to Bard County's quality of life excuse me due to the growth at the Space Center that simply are not being considered and we're about to get run over um I was looking to see when those dates are but um I can't find it right now right off the bat yeah anyway it's like the second week of June in fact one of the Eis things is on the same night as the T EC Workshop which is is June the 12th I think the other one might be June the 10th or 11th and then I think June 17th maybe is there's a virtual one also so you know anybody that that wants to should should be commenting you know there's also other things like storm water going into the Refuge empowerments and there's there's a lot of other concerns about the development that's going on over there um I got the dates okay go ahead the the the two of them are June 12th and June 13th and I'm looking for where the engagement is June 12th is going to be in person at the Rison Cape Canaveral the Jamaica room at 8701 Astronaut Boulevard in Cape Canaveral and then the second inperson meeting will be on June 3 also 6 to 8 oh this one will be 6 to8 the first one's 2: to 4: p.m. and 6: to8 this one's just 6 to8 on June 13th and it'll be at the Kennedy Space Center Visitor complex at the space Commerce Way Out on Meritt Island and then the virtual there's a virtual one I don't know how I'm going to get you the URL but there's a virtual meeting that occurs on June 17th from 6:00 to 8:00 pm eastern time okay and and they'll take public comment at all three of those um or at at two the two inperson meetings as well as the uh virtual meeting um those are when the presentations will take place the public can comment all the way up till June 24th they will be accepting comments until June 24th um so the other um requests from a citizen was uh that a presentation was given to the turtle Coast Sierra Club about the City of Cape Canal's work on sustainability the person that requested this liked some of their ideas and what they were able to do with their smart rainwater Park and how they are systematically going Street by Street figuring out how to grow a tree canopy to help with their heat island effect yes the cape the the requestor would like to invite the Cape Canaveral um person to give their presentation I I know who that is his name is Zach I I Colts he is the City of Cape canaval ch resil Chief resilience officer he's done some amazing things with work in the Indian River Lagoon too but the work that the things that the city of Kate canaro are doing are really impressive and I especially like this this this plan that they have for planting trees all over the City of Cape Canaveral and and so you know that might be something we might want to have at one of our Tec meetings to see if Zach can come up and and do a presentation for us I had actually asked Zach um I was uh initially I I well my end goal was to get Zach before the city council um but to get him there I think he needs to make a presentation before us first and then we can direct him on what we think city council should see couldn't he do the presentation um during the um the meet the 5:30 meeting um um isn't isn't the last meeting of the month the presentations meeting does he have to present to the Tec before he can present to the city council procedurally no um but this board cannot decide who gets to present during the city council's 5:30 meeting so your recommendation to council would be that they invite Zach to their 5:30 presentation meeting precisely precisely okay that's my motion that's your motion is there a second second the motion was made by member my Jack and seconded by member Delgado that the city invite Zach I Colts the chief resilience officer for the City of Cape canaval to come and do a presentation during the 5:30 presentations meeting on the what the fourth Tuesday of the month that that that that I think that they would benefit you know from seeing what what what Cape canaval is doing and what what Mr iol has been able to put together all right all those in favor say I I hi so Abby who do you guys take our recommendations and then present them to the city um okay all right so does anybody else have have anything that they want to say under reports lost my agenda there it is no okay so discussion of future agenda items um oh wait I had some things I wanted to say during reports number one I know that the there's something that changed with the state of Florida that will allow members that have been appointed um by government bodies to attend meetings via zoom and we've been doing that for many months now at the um Savar Indian River Lagoon meetings the Indian River National Estuary program um which is also um the management board they are all appointed um by by city council members and stuff like that they are going to start allowing um members that can't person and make it to a person in-person meeting to attend via Zoom so I don't know if you guys want to ask the city council again why you know whether whether Michael can attend via zoom while he's up in um Maine this summer and other others of us that can attend attend the meetings and do we want to bring that up again make a motion um here why don't you pass the G let me make let you make that motion I don't have a gabble here there's my cell phone um all right so I'm currently the chair now you can make your motion okay um I move that the the uh city council consider allowing the Tec members who cannot make it to a t Tec meeting in person be able to attend the meeting and vote via Zoom is there a second second okay you're the chair oh that's right any discussion okay do we need a roll call vote I don't think so all right then all in favor say I I I any opposed member passes unanimously I just want to comment that um Courtney Barker uh who is the city manager of the city of Satellite Beach um she was at the soral meeting or somewhere I ran into her somewhere anyway she she told me that the city of Satellite Beach got $800,000 to use for planting trees from a grant so do do you know what organization they got it from Hector I believe it well there is a Federal grant that uh for cities to build uh canopies and trions stuff like that uh now whether it's a share Grant where you put a little I put a little I have no idea I would have to research that but in in the new budget from the federal government there is money for that there's also money for fixing water plants there's also money for fixing sewage plants uh all the problems that we have there is money for and a lot of cities are putting in for it yeah and the thing is with it's a share or not so I don't know you know staff would know more than that than I would but I know there's Federal money for that and some cities you know have gone pockets of where they want to go right and so it's just a matter of of Direction and emphasis so I'm sure staff is looking at it every day uh what's available and how much we want to put in thank you okay the other thing I want to say is um two or three days ago the Orlando uh City commission voted to increase their storm water fees by a lot I mean like a really a lot um and it's because of all of the flooding from the new development that's taking place all over the all over Orlando the new developments are flooding the older neighborhoods and so the they are increasing the storm water fee um you know to try to address this inequity that is happening by the way that the new developments are built they hone in truckloads and truckloads of fill and they build up and then they flood everything that's around them so you know there there is a group of citizens that are working to to try to acquire the Royal Oak Golf Course so that we could turn it into a storm water park kind of like the Chain of Lakes um and and they're working really hard and they have gotten um a affirmation from the trust Republic public lands that the Trust for Public Lands would actually buy the piece of property um for uh the city of Titusville if somebody will step up and take ownership of the property either the city of Titusville or bravard County and I I I would like to see this body the Tec recommend to the city of Titusville that that they do everything they can to try to try to to help those citizens that are trying to make this happen that that the city does everything possible I mean think of the think of the beautiful Park the the the beautiful trees that are there I don't know how many how many ponds are there I mean the the developer wants to fill in half the ponds that are there and and and and and and then build a lot of density and guess what that's going to do to all of the neighborhood streets around around the de the new development so instead of flooding the older neighborhoods in the Royal Oak area we could actually have a pond where we could collect storm water instead so I don't know what you guys think about that but i' I'd like to see this body make a recommendation that the city support these citizens efforts I went and met with Kevin Cook about this issue um talk with him uh about the Royal Oak uh ponds ponds of Royal Oak um and making that into a storm water park and his uh his chief complaint was that it it's just it's not big enough we need more you know that we have more storm water than we can fit there so you take all the ponds and you connect them all together like they did at that golf course in Houston they they they took all the ponds and they connected them they dug them deep and they connected them all and made huge Lakes instead of ponds and they had the capacity to store a half a billion gallons of storm water I um at a golf course well and the first thing I wanted to find out was which way the water flowed because I was under the impression that it flowed from there into the Indian River Lagoon but uh Kevin Cook assured me that it's hitting into a a canal on the other side of our South Side of um Knox McCrae and then the water heads to the West toward the St John's where where we really want it to the thing is that we are losing our groundwater recharge in this city uh our overdevelopment and and impervious surfaces in our areas of critical concern specifically have reduced our capacity to withdraw water from wellfields 2 and three this would give us an opportunity from an engineering standpoint to not only create a reservoir with which to collect that storm water but a source from which we can then develop what's called artificial surficial aquafer restoration and what that means is that we take that excess storm water that we're collecting in those ponds and we pump it back into the ground just like we do in area in wellfield 4 we're taking surficial water and pumping it into the ground to compensate for for what worth drawing well if we have overdrafted in wellfield 2 and three if we start pushing our storm water back into the ground where it can be cleaned it will then help recharge those well fields and we can recover water resources that we would have otherwise lost so to me in the long run this is a a a boom for the city of Titusville because it'll provide us a means and a mechanism in the heart of the city with which we can help clean our storm water replenish our fresh water slow down the flow of storm water into receiving water bodies and just become a win-win win when you consider that Central Park accessible to all of Titusville we make a storm water park and we make a human Park Allin one just like they did at Deer Park in in Orlando what they're doing in in uh East Orlando with the seol county yeah so there's a lot of advantages um to doing this and it's it's a it's a goal that I I think we should set the city on on doing on implementing Madam chair fin me say you talked about Orlando The reason Orlando had to do that is because FEMA starting to reject Orlando's claims for insurance and that was the underlying push to get the thing fixed because they were building legs next to lakes with a weird and then hopefully the weird was not overwhelmed well the will get overwhelmed and then one Lake will dump into the next Lake and flood the new area that was not supposed to be flooded because of like this is where we need to be careful with pawns okay we can we can play that game and eventually n Make nature will make fools out of us I'm speaking as an engineer and you'll be a fool if you say this will never happen we have had an Ian come through here and dump a lot of rain that we never expected all of Florida did that but but Orlando just to close the subject did it because FEMA said we're not paying you guys anymore and by the way you cannot get low fee uh insurance from us anymore and so that's how the fee is so high across but by being proactive and creating a storm water reservoir we could avoid ultimately ending up in the same position that Orlando is yes I would uh I think we should make a recommendation to city council that um they start looking that they give um serious consideration to uh to working with the citizens and acquiring this golf course as a as a park future water park for the city storm water park um and aquafer recharge I think that that's a win-win for us in the long run especially if we can get the trust for public land involved especially if we can help our storm water situation groundwater recharge is just a benefit out of all of this so I would make the motion that we would recommend the city council that they support the citizens request to build a storm water park in in the Royal the old Royal Country Club and and by the way be careful what you wish for city of Titusville spent a lot of money 30 years ago 20 years ago in well injection and it failed rockl spent even more money than that putting water back and injecting it back into the aquafer we have a fairly unique situation with our rock formation against the St John's against yeah the the cars for okay and so we need to be careful what we wish for because we need to be careful how we inject the water and where and which Cavern we go to okay because there are capacities again go back to City history and CityVille did inject K to Hill is a company that did the work and they gave it up so and that was all on Bara the Bara field was an injection field all right just yeah is the engineering historical but even if we don't inject the water into the aquafer just having that capacity to store this storm water and and maybe route some of the storm water that's going into the Indian River Lagoon send it to Royal Oak instead we can use it for reuse water for people to water their lawns with and all kinds of things so yeah so I um I need a second I'll second we'll let member Coy have that second the motion was made by member maack and seconded by member Coy um that the city is strongly encouraged to to work with the citizens they're trying to acquire Royal Oak Golf Course um for the purpose of turning it into a storm water park all those in favor say I I any opposed okay we giving you guys enough recommendations tonight is there anything else from any members anything else from any staff the meeting is adjourned y