e e e good evening um welcome to the March 2024 environmental Commission meeting um let's go ahead and get going because I think we got a lot to talk about tonight so I'm going to call the meeting to order um Lori can you do roll call please chairwoman Thompson here Vice chairman ma jaac here member y here member Tucker here member Perez here member dogado here member fiss alternate member young alter alternate member COI so since we're missing a regular member one of the alternates gets to vote tonight I I can appoint one I'm going to appoint the new guy the new guy yeah let let him have a chance so huh she said she's going to be here if if Evette shows up then you won't be voting how's that sound yeah that's right you can you can and and Bill you are welcome to comment as you always do so yeah huh all right thank you so um we do have a quorum can everybody stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please FL flag the United States of America to The Republic which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right so um you've got the minutes from the last meeting um can I hear a motion to approve the minutes can I um say something was left out first um or is that after yeah we'll let's make a motion and then we'll have discussion okay motion to approve the minutes right a second second all right a motion by member Perez seconded by member Tucker is there any discussion uh apparently I voted but I am not listed as being here at the meeting so I think my name was just left off and I I believe Mr Parish was here at the meeting too and he's not listed in the minutes as being present we make those changes so we'll make those changes those two changes to the minutes okay all anything else about the minutes Mr Perez lights on oh sorry all right um all those in favor of approving the um minutes say I I I any opposed all right the motion carries amendments from February 14th are approved um petitions and requests from the public present these will be on non-agenda items does anybody wish to speak only one hand out please get you're supposed to have hand out to them for my speak I'm talking what you it's a it's a it's about this size that's it looks like that does that say does that say from Stan Johnston is that what it says or is something else okay that's the one bill you want to get one okay Laur if you don't have one I'll get you one L later do you have one okay you do have one good okay may I start when you're ready okay I'm ready uh you guys know that I'm Stan Johnston and uh I for for at least down three Council meetings I've said the same thing at the council meetings and that's what I've put on here it says about is anyone's it's the same question I've I've come to U Tec and Tec has asked Council that didn't get on te didn't get on through Council and that is is it says something to the fact is anyone city council going to acknowledge the SE spill September through November coming out of manholes Greenwood Street into nine city streets is witnessed by me and lle Thompson the person and the person who turned off the alarm and red flashing light of lift station photos videotapes and so forth sewage flowing out of manholes uh anyhow so uh I've sent two letters to you and this is one of the letters today today and the closing of the letter says it listed a bunch of people it's here it says U that's the last page our Police Department city government city council FD public Hospital Governor EPA for today churches and so forth then it comes down to the end here it says includes me as a professional engineer Mr staer Smith oos o cook All Professional Engineers here in the city and it says all of whom it's includes Tec are all of whom have sadly disappointedly ironically and outrageously failed in this task and their responsibility to protect the health safety and Welfare of the public so this continues to be a serious matter and I'm I'm also at fall to because it continues in other words we're talking about the uh denial of sewage spills massive sewage bills by even sean stoffer who was who was the uh director of water resources and who have just uh contacted the board the for Board of Professional Engineers to file a complaint against this is a serious matter and I'm asking to the Tec to continue this and it it I was I was hopeful that it would be on new business again fact is I even asked for that I believe I asked for it I'm asking you to to continue this and I at last night at the council meeting by go they someone at petitions a request had them vote had Council vote on an issue and and understandably is I'm telling you that they add items to the to the council meeting as they progress they voted on things that were not on the agenda very different than what Mr Mr Parish had told you and I see nothing on it on the new agenda about this this this same item nothing on it I don't know how it's being erased so I'm asking you to put it on the agenda again to contact city council about this sewage spill into nine city streets witnessed by me and LLY Thompson and many other people that the city never happen says it never happened I have a I have a attachment to the E this email that is a letter by Mr staford says it never happened the sewage spill for hurricanes Aon and hurricanes Nicole massive sewage spill in the nine city streets big puddles of sewage darken sewage and so forth V and I videotaped it coming out of manholes and that is on there's two letters attached to this email one from me to the city to Sean staer and one from Sean staford to FD the letter to me contains videos and and photos of sewage coming out of the manholes and so what does he write on his letter he says it never happened even though he's got a video of it sent to me on that letter says it never happened I want you guys to help me do something about it I'm trying I would like you guys to try too because you're responsible for it I'd like you to ask me some questions I'm asking you why you why it hasn't been going against the counsel I asked councel why I won't they answer it and obviously in a way they don't want they're so embarrassed about it they lied staler lied any questions I think there should be questions because it's your responsibility too thought just mine okay I'm leaving no thank you anybody have any questions I I my I will comment that we have multiple times asked the um asked the that this be looked into we keep with the the answer has always been that the DP has closed the case because the city responded that the spill never happened I don't know what to do to to change that Stan do it again ask again exactly ask again this is a massive sewage spill massive looks like you got no backbone no spine does anybody else want to speak under petitions and requests all right seeing none let's move on um the next item on the agenda is old business and that would be the landscape technical manual ordinance um Miss legary are you ready yes I am um so the last time I was here which was early in February um we discuss the current manual that I had presented to the council um or to the commission um regarding the update to the overall landscape technical manual and there were some things that came back that the manual was to be updated based on the new hardiness zones of 9B to 10A as well as the list only needed to show species that were either native or Florida friendly specifically within those zones so we have updated that list to only show species that are within 9B and 10A that will grow within Bard County and that are native and from the Florida friendly plant list as well as the Florida Native Plant Society list so we have comp um comprised a list of all of those species as well as there was a a note to add in wildlife and pollinators on that on that manual and we have done that as well so now we are bringing back to you guys to see if you will recommend the list to Planning Commission all right I I I think you did a really really nice job and you did everything that we asked you to do including keeping it um between 60 and 70% natives um according to K it's 67% natives good job and I like the wildlife and pollinators but I'm going to open it up to the commission to see if anybody has has any any comments or any requests any further requests again I think you did an amazing job um and and we really appreciate all your hard work I have some concerns in the Palm list about um specifically about the Palms that are um susceptible to lethal bronzing disease um one of my comments is that at the very end of the list um in your footnotes you call it lethal Browning but it's actually it's actually lethal bronzing CU when I when I Googled lethal Browning it kept taking me to lethal bronzing disease that's a that's a spelling era that we will update I think you need to um fix that and then and so my my concern is that you know we've got these these plants you've identified them as being susceptible to lethal bronzing but if you've ever driven around like in in in the area out by Disney World or um coming back from Georgia last week the traffic was so bad on 995 we got off um at St Augustine and came down US1 there's a a lot of places where the Landscaping has included the big Sylvester palms and it's horrible what's happening to those trees they are dying they're they're awful looking um and I I question the wisdom of this committee for approving plants that we know are are susceptible to this awful disease and and you know for the the trauma that it's going to create if somebody puts in their landscape and and then they die and and they've got to replace them and I I don't understand why we still have them in here I mean this this is not a mandatory list and and anybody that wants to plant these Palms can do so but I I I question our wisdom of including them on the list and those would be the pendo Palm Chinese fan palm the Phoenix species of date palms and The Windmill Palm um I I I personally would like to see them taken off the list because like I said anybody that wants to use them and take the chance they they can do so but I I think that it's I'm not sure that it's a good thing for us to be including them on our list and I'll open the floor to other people's comments the only thing I might add is that these plants are not native in Bard County right they're not found in the atlas of Florida native plants so I would agree with you I think with the list of Pals that are here the deletion of those that are questionable would probably be negligible yeah it it would still leave um quite a few Palms it would you there's one two three four five six seven eight nine 10 there more than a dozen palms would still be on included on the list if you take those I think four species off one one two three four yeah so it would just be removing four species of Palms from the list do we need a motion staff has their light on I just have one comment on if you have the ability to open up the city's mun code open open up the browser you can see in section 330- 322 of the city's code specifically table 30-6 it's it's titled acceptable palm tree substitutions this list that you have here is to help us Implement what the code says this particular table which is not on your agenda it's a separate uh item in the code it talks about acceptable Palm tree substitution so in other words it lists some of the Palms that you're talking about to help that can be used to help count towards a required tree so for example uh cabbage Palms three cabbage Palms can count towards one tree per the code two Washington Palms can count towards one tree and there are some of the others that you have identified as well that can count towards that so if we remove if you decide to take some of these Palms that are on the list that sheima has before you out of that as Rec as the recommended list then there might be an inconsistency with some of the list that's in this table 30-6 inside the city's Landscaping code for purposes of determining what can equ how many Palms can equate to one particular tree if you could do you could say on I would recommend if you instead of removing them maybe make a notation that these are probably um not the best option or something along those lines as opposed to just removing them completely it's a recommendation list right that's true so you want me to make it less than recommended on on the recommendation list or more than less than recommended I'm only telling you what the code say if it's not recommended so if you decide to remove them from here and say that they're not recommended that's what they'll be but I'm just telling pointing out to you what this other table said say in the city's land regulations related to how many Palms can you count towards one tree as for purposes of landscaping requirements maybe we shouldn't be planting palms and we should actually be planting canopy trees that would be better anyway so I'm not at all adverse to that happening to having fewer Palms to choose from and and so can we come back and make a recommendation from this body that the um code be changed so that we can do that I think that's probably the next step yes let's see if there's any card are there any cards fory yes we have two cards okay four cards k l hello yes K St an Maryland Avenue why is this list of recommended trees for landscaping so important you might ask yourself the list is used by landscapers of new developments when creating their landscape plans to meet the requirements of city code for instance City landscape yard standard require four overstory trees per 200 feet two conifers per 200 feet one understory tree per 200 feet and one understory scrub per 15 feet and and as Brad was just mentioning at this table that he referred to when choosing the tree species for each category the landscapers consult the tech manual list if the list contains a high percentage of native plants landscapers will be more likely to plant native plants we all know that native plants support native bugs and caterpillars required by native baby birds we have to have these native plants for native birds to survive 30% of the population of birds has disappeared since the 19 70s pnz has asked that Tec work on this list to make sure it contains a majority of native plants the city Consultants updated list of recommended plants for landscapers for the tech manual is in your agenda packet 67% of the plants on the list are labeled native plants H but some plants labeled native on the consultants's list might not naturally grow in Bard I believe you received an email from um somebody um that in had some notations that some of them were not native to Bard so the consultant was asked to only include trees that belong in 10 a or 9B but I I think there are some discrepancies there Kim Gibbs of the Native Plant Society has created The Bard County native plants for landscapers lists which she provided you all the plants on this list naturally grow in Bard County 70% of the plants in Bard County native plant list are in the updated consultants list in your agenda packet ideally The Bard County native plant list would be recommended to council but as Council has rejected 100% native plant list in the past I defer to your judgment the consultant's updated list is far better than a previous list that only contain 33% native on the consultants list of four Palms susceptible to lethal bronzing these Palms should be removed as they could spread the disease to our native Palms that would be disastrous yes please ask that you can change the table whatever you need to do to get these susceptible palm trees off of this list I notice that there is no longer a list of invasive species perhaps this is because the tree protection ordinance indicates new s trees on the floor to Exotic pest plant C should be removed but I do ask you to ask staff why there is no list of nuisance trees on the list one any list is approved by council local native plant nurseries should be notified so they can start providing these plants to landscapers this was a concern of the consultant at at a previous meeting pnz has also asked that Tec create incentives to encourage developers to plant native as well two council members discussed incentives recently Michael maic has some great ideas for incentives for you to consider later on in the agenda so thank you very much for taking my thoughts into your consideration tonight any questions very good Kimberly Gibbs good evening um um my name is Kim Gibbs I live in Meritt Island um I am an advocate for native plants that grow here in Bard County um I didn't prepare remarks U so I'm just trying to gather my thoughts here and respond to some of the comments that have been made I guess first just a note about lethal bronzing um we've talked about that a little bit in the past so lethal bronzing started out in Texas it was initially called the tppd Texas Phoenix date palm decline um and and now it has spread and it's attacking our native beloved cabbage Palms so we certainly wouldn't want to remove our cabbage Palms from the list but I want to make an important Point here the whole reason that um a pest was introduced and started harming these plants was because it came through came through um the non-native plant in Nursery industry and that's how many pest insects and plants come to the United States um is through the nursery plant trade or from untreated wood products it's important to understand that um the last time I was here I I emphasize the um Superior value of our native plants every native plant is providing some high high value to the ecosystem uh and our habitats so you don't even need to have those little um metadata or little pictures beside them they're all very important the Florida friendly list is really as I say stated before kind of a gimmick it seeks to equalize the non-native plants even the harmless ones um with our native plants and that's just simply not true so it was my understanding um the last time I attended that the uh kimley horn work was on pause and um for that reason I took on the project of of preparing a a native plant list uh plants that are occur natively here in Bard County I'm doing that for my own purposes elsewhere but I thought um had some encouragement here and I thought this would be a good place to to start sharing that um so I sent that to everyone on the board earlier this week and I emphasized a couple of points um first of all that the metadata would be used or could be used to fine-tune the plant list based on the site conditions emphasize the importance of all of our native plants and providing that habitat um and I guess in my mind looking taking a step back and looking at the big picture what are we trying to do we're trying to emphasize um or encourage and perhaps even incentivize our native plants so that we can build authentic Landscapes that are healthier and benefit the environment in so many different ways so it seems to me that we should be have a list with native plants on it and require a certain amount whatever that magic number is that you the decision makers come up with and then allow some percentage of ornamentals that are deemed to be safe they C certainly are some ornamentals that are safe and that um are not invasive and and are not expected to bring in insects and pest so I guess that's the way that I would approach it um and that that's all I wanted to say uh if I can be of any assistance please let me know I am a member of the Florida Native Plant Society the local chapter I'm very passionate passionate about this work and um I'd be happy to help any way that I can thank you thank you very much for your comments and thanks for all the work that you did on that list I have a question for okay member my Jack Kim would you mind coming back up please um one of the things that um I was impressed with u during the development of this list was um a discussion and understanding of the difference between those plants that are voucher in Bard County and those that are Florida native plants can you express that difference clearly for us on the board so that we understand what the difference is between those that are vouchered in Bard County versus sure yeah when we say that a plant is vouchered in Bard County that means that um well either we've seen it out there in nature but vouchered means that it um herbarium spe uh uh specimen has been collected and notated in the plant Atlas so um the plant atlas of the Florida plant Atlas so uh that is a website and a project that is um managed by the University of South Florida I believe and they Pro I think they have other partners um and I don't know the detailed workings of it but uh the way the way that we interface with it is uh by looking uh through their website they a graphical display and and you can look up a plant and they'll tell you if a if a specimen has been collected in a particular County so know that what's on this list really does come from here it's truly a native it really truly is and so it's well adapted to the environments um and the habitats in Bard County so we have some you know coastal areas and right we have a variety of habitat how do you know how many exactly no not off hand I mean I can think of a handful just you know I think the last time I looked we were somewhere around 26 or 27 unique habitats in Bard County okay I couldn't I couldn't rattle those off at all a lot I couldn't either I have to go to the gis data set too and I think it's probably worth noting that because bravard is such a long County North to South that there are uh a few plants on the list that might grow in the southern portion only and might not be good candidates for growing here but overall having a list that is already um filtered to include only Bard native plants is by far more accurate or good candidates than looking at plants that grow anywhere in Florida because we have such an amazing diversity of plant communities could we distinguish those that are vouchered Bard County plants from Florida natives we could even say Florida native uh Regional native plants could we dis discriminate them that way the ones that are they're native but they aren't necessarily vouchered in Bard County but could grow here are you asking if such a list could be prepared no I'm trying to come up with a way of categorizing them so that I can reference them as a group would would uh Regional natives Florida Regional natives be another way of referencing those plants that grow their native in Florida but aren't necessarily vouchered in bouard County yes I think there would be a number of plants that would that you would consider Regional native and a potential candidate to plant here um they probably just wouldn't be as well suited as the ones that are already growing here that's that's what I was trying to get to is that there there's a pecking order of plants so to speak that are beneficial to the county and it sounds like those that order would be those that are native to Bard County those vouchered others would be native Floridan plants but not necessarily vouchered in bouard county and then potentially I guess we would say the Exotics the things that are non-native but are not part of uh any noxious weed list whether federal or state or on the prohibited Aquatics list or anything like that right I think that's a very important component of the plan um to allow some flexibility and to allow some percentage of non-native introduced plants to be in the landscape people have very strong emotional connections to a variety of plants that aren't necessarily native to Bard County and I think you would get a lot of push back if you went too far correct in uh requiring yeah like all natives I I don't think that would go yeah thank you thank you very much thanks I Look to add that my takeaway from the last meeting was similar to what Kimberly pointed out that we have the expertise and that the list that was being produced by Kimberly and Horn was on hold but yet it continues so I'm maybe I'm incorrect but that was my impression as well that we had the expertise Michael Kimberly and some others that have intimate knowledge of the subject matter would come up with the list that we would use and that was my impression too but that's not what happened so it we have a list it's 67% Florida natives probably most of which um are you know would be found here in Bard County and I think I'm you know it's kind of like the SE spill you know are we going to just keep talking about this over and over and over again I I don't I I would be opposed to asking for anything else other than taking those four palm trees off the list I I think that a lot of hard work has gone into this obviously the city council chose to continue with with kimley horn and their staff or somebody did but it's it's done and you know the the marching orders from the city council was to come up with a list that's 60 to 70% native and we asked for the Wildlife pollinators to be included you know everything that we've everything that was asked for was done and I I think that I just think we would be looked upon poorly if we choose to keep beating this dead horse I I'm pretty happy with the list myself I it's way better way better than what what we had before um obviously a lot of work went into it um and I I just I I don't see that we're going to get anywhere if we ask for additional time and money to be spent on this list I just I don't see it guys anybody else have any comments I do when you're ready go ahead well number one I think it it's a easy matter to merge these two together I think we can remove the things you want to remove I think we can blend Kimberly's list with the consultants list and I think the way that I understand how these plants are beneficial I think we can incorporate them into the incentive structure that we had originally talked about at the last meeting so if we include in the list Florida natives that are vouchered in bouard county and we include Florida natives that are Regal but not vouchered in Bard County and we include exotic non-natives that are not found in the federal noxious weed list the Florida noxious weed list the Florida prohibited aquatic plant list and the Florida exotic pest plant council's list then they can go on the list but the incentives toward development will only be found in using liid and using native plants and native trees at a maximum of an 80% level and I think that's what we should propose as a commission going forward for this list I think all of the metadata that's in here that Kim included is outstanding and should not be lost by any means this stuff is most useful to Architects Landscape Architects in particular for choosing the right kind of plant to go in the right kind of soil it's just not found in our list in the in in our tech manual and I think this one is far superior as far as a resource goes and so I would say at a minimum we need to merge these two lists and give Credence where it's due and that is in the planting of natives going forward that's what I'd like to see happen yeah I'd like to I agree with Michael I'd like to second that and um you know I'd like to say that at this point I think we can accept what's been done with the provisor that we're going to take it and merge this information we don't need any help to do this we don't need to spend any more money to do this I think we should accept since this whole thing is just going around in circles and take it on our own to do what we think needs to be done I do have a question yes go ahead got it thank you um this is about the code that was spoken to that if we take out these four or five bombs that are going to die anyway eventually because of Browning that somehow the math is going to go against planning of trees they can still put these Palms in if they want so therefore the tree count that you talked about BR doesn't matter we're going to get trees out of it no matter what whether you plant this Pond or that other Pond they're going to get you know they'll be credit for so many trees correct um I mean you talked about credits they they will get so many credits for a certain amount for a certain type of pal you the code you said let me let me as a math that's what I'm trying to understand understand so I saved that segment of the code that I was referring to onto agenda star yeah if you can just minimize your agenda that you have on your screen and you'll see an icon in your desktop called agenda star you double click that that's a file open it up and you'll see a PDF document called 30- 322 if you need our assistance opening that up please tell us we'll come around and show you real quick but basically I just gave you an excerpt of what the code says that's the table I was referring to earlier in the discussion I guess I don't know what I'm looking for oh we'll come up now pleas the yeah there's there's agenda star and agenda that's a star it's the agenda that's the star the other one say agenda share you got it yeah name was it thank you okay that table is what I was referring to okay so it tells us that if someone wants to utilize one of those Palms that are there um they can put one Canary Island date palm and that'll equate to one tree uh two Washington Palms will equate to one tree and three cabbage Palms will equate to one tree and that helps us implement the landscape requirements as far as minimum landscaping materials and such so a lot of the Palms that are on um this um proposed list are not included in this um ordinance and if you take out the the um Chinese fan palm and the pendo palm and whatever else you're not going to have very many Palms left so is that your point I'm just pointing out to you what the code says if you want to make a recommendation to make modifications to this right now what's before you is to make to accept or make modifications to the list that shim has proposed to you if you want to include a recommendation to city council to make further changes to the code uh based on your recommendations on this list it could impact how we implement this table that I just showed you so then maybe you might want to make a separate recommendation to city council that's exactly that's exactly where I was going member ya has had his light on let's hear what he has to say yeah just in a couple of brief websites I just looked at from Gainesville it's apparently spreading quite rapidly through cabbage Palms there and uh if there's a third way if we don't want to take them off the list which I think we should probably do but if we don't want to take them off they're recommending an inspection that they be inspected and certified to be disease-free before they can be sold and imp planted and that would be a middle way to do it if it didn't require amending code and everything else we could perhaps recommend that these could be planted if they are certified to be disease-free but I'd be I mean that's just for the middle ground I'm I'm in favor of removing them because I don't want to recommend a disease that's going to spread things to natives as was said yeah I mean they could be disease free but if they get exposed by another tree then the only way it you can't stop it you know if you're if you have a tree that's next to a tree that that has has the lethal bronzing your only choice to try and save your tree is it has to have monthly um like shots monthly injections for the rest of that tree's life and it's and it's like $35 a bottle and you got to drill holes in the tree and so the process of trying to save the trees that get exposed to this is very expensive and very time consuming and so again I agree with you it it it makes no sense to include these in the list and if we got to change the um the um whatever this is the ordinance then we need to change the ordinance I mean just just because it's in the ordinance doesn't make it right we can it follow we we can follow it follow it up but um you want that as a separate recommendation instead of what we're talking about now or it could be included as one recommendation of how you want to amend this list are there any other places that follow through where where specifics are specified elsewhere in our ordinances that actually should be in this tree list by reference instead maybe I'm not aware of anything else but well one of the things that makes me question this approach um I realize you're trying to get more palms for one tree and that's why we went with three Sable and everything else seems to be two except for the carry on and dat Palm which is big but why you know if if we're not wanting to promote palm trees for canopy in the first place why would we even want this in our ordinance at all so speaking from the consultant side there are often times where our plans don't necessarily allow for us to plant a a canopy tree we don't have the room let's say if a parking Island isn't 10t big it's only five we don't want to plant an a red maple or an oak there so we plant The reable Palms because they have shallower roots and it'll actually grow better so that's why we believe that the list is is this way and it also allows for plant diversity because you don't want to have a monoculture of just a bunch of canopy trees all over the site when you're so close to uh what we would consider a tropical environment so you want to have cabbage palms and Native Palms that are on your site so we don't necessarily take that approach of okay I'm going to do three cabbage palms for one tree we only do that in times of when it's absolutely necessary because often times three cabbage Palms turns into 6 9 12 15 and if we're looking for a certain size it can be more expensive than just planting that one live oak tree so we do it because often times we need to but it's there to help us meet meet our overall code requirements as well so something like um a Northfolk Island pine is not acceptable in that same footprint typically our developers don't want to have pine trees um because they are messy they would rather have an oak or a cabbage palm and I don't think you would want to have a pine tree in a parking Island either well pick and choose well where do we go shall we make a motion someone make a motion all right then I will I will make the same motion I made before that I think that we should merge lists together and that we should document within that list those that are vouchered Bard County native plants and that those that are native Regional which are not vouchered in for Bard County but found in the atlas of Florida native plants and include those non-native how did I put it non-native Exotics that are not found in the noxious weed lists of Florida or the federal list or the Florida prohibited aquatic plant list or the Florida exotic plant council's plant list which is updated regularly and should be checked yearly those are what I think we should end up with as a recommended native plant as a recommended plant list for our engineering plan and any ordinances that refer to this list should also be updated accordingly and if there's a friendly amendment to remove the palm trees I'll hear that in addition to my motion a motion this okay you can second the motion but the motion is too long it's too long we you have to make it short and simple merge the two lists together and call it good is that that's better that's better so in doing so and make sure there's no non you know no invas obnoxious plants on okay first of all we've had a motion made by member myjack seconded by member Perez and it's being whittel down now so in in merging the two lists um somebody and you're you're proposing that it would be us we merged the two lists the consider the two lists merged less the palm trees you didn't want that's the motion but you also wanted to identify the um plants that are found in Bard County can you do that by just adding another little column like you have the native could you yep yeah put another column that says Bard County and have a yes or a yes or a no there I mean because we want to keep this simple it has to be simple or people are not going to be able to use it you can have a bee for bavard you can have an what is it uh Regional for an R for regional native and you can have an X for Exotics how about that all in one column and I only use three letters easy peasy we want a good list of natives to Source from and that's what we want to end up with so so could we modify this existing list by just adding a b next to the the plants that are on here that grow in Bard County rather than going through the work of and all of the rest of the ones that Kim has that are not on that list you see that's what you're missing is the additional one that Kim has identified that actually belong here in this County that are not on that list not that that list is not good but this one is more complete so how are we hurting ourselves by pulling in the plants that literally were here before we were and saying that's what we should be planting and that's the one that I want to give the highest value to and that's everything that's on her list so if we merge Kim's list and the Native Plant Society approach with what the consultant has done then we have even more native plants to choose from and I see that as a win-win now if we subtract from the the consultants list the palm trees that you're objecting to and I don't really have a problem with that then we're taking and merging them together sanss those four palms or Five Palms or whatever it was and that's still a win-win because we still end up with more native plants so what's wrong with that yeah how many plants are we talking here that it's my first question I have two can we um explain with they just Shima has some response to the list that was provided by the resident versus what she came up with right yes goad so so the list that that was provided um I believe we had gotten before and so we used that list in conjunction with the list that we created to compile them both with what we found on IAS and on the Florida n Native Plant Society and so we have all of these plants on our list what we probably don't have are the Aquatic species because that was something that we did not have on the list before but when it comes to um if for the understory the canopy the shrubs the perennials we have we merge both of those lists already so if there are lists such as the herbaceous flowering plants there may be some on there that we don't specifically have or the aquatics because that wasn't necessar originally on the first list that we were told to modify there was like four or five groupings that we were told needed to be in the landscape technical manual and we stuck to those we didn't go with the aquatics or herbaceous we were just told overstory under Story vines Palms shrubs ground cover that's it so that's what we did so if there are aquatic species we can go back and merge those on the list but we didn't originally have those because that wasn't on the original landscape technical manual that we were to update okay but you understand the significance of this list is that every one of these are vouchered to be found in this County they're also on our list I just we well we just got the list updated three days ago so unless you've merged it recently it's not current this this list there was a list that we got before and so we use that list then to create this list so so merging this current list that we just got from Kim with what you have will'll bring you up today it's the same list that we got before no it is not that's what I'm telling you it just came out 3 days ago and was mailed to us all by email you do not have the current list Incorporated in yours but I'm offering you the advantage of taking this Excel spreadsheet and merging it with yours so that we have it all included I just want to be able to document these as having been vouchered native in Bard County so that when we sort this list and we we look for it we can pull out those that are actually native and we can give those additional credit when we get to the incentives part of this discussion later on I think what you're saying is maybe instead of saying native because that's what we were talked about last time was that we were was told just to be native am distinguishing between Florida native now you are but I was not so that is so that so now you cannot and we've learned exactly so but we were told that it was supposed to only be 9 B and 10 a so the list so the list can be mer that was two months ago that was last month we're in March that was a month before was it was last month it was February well I remember either way seems like two months ago it's been so much work but either way we can we can merge the list because now we understand that okay on the list you want it to be Regional native and Bard County native yes document and that was told to us just now yes I understand that's going to be the essence of the motion that we've made understood so that once we have those doc documented and we know what's native here in Bard County we can compare them to those that are not native and those that are non flan non non native at all not what am I trying to say Exotics regionals natives local and Exotics I just want to divide the three so you asking then so because I've heard several versions of the of the motion change over time so I just from what I understand merge Kim's list with the consultants list Sands the palm trees that that Laura Lee didn't want that's the most motion if you document those that come from Kim's list as being vouchered native in Bard County instead of just native like they are in the document that she sent then when you merge them you'll be able to distinguish those that are Regional native from those that are Bard County native so let me understand so you're taking we're updating this list from Miss Li here with additional plantings from the list that was given to us on Tuesday by Miss Kim by um Miss Kim Gibbs Kim Gibbs yes just merge them together merge them together add two more add another column to identify each species based on whether it's you see the column that she has in hers can you pull hers up at the very top I think it's her column D she has listed as bavard native status okay and it's either yes or no in in those column in Kim's list those are all Native because they're all Bard native now what we could do is change the status of that heading to incorporate Bard native or Regional native or non-native in other words three different letters in the same column I'm just saying make better use of what's there so the motion is to combine both of these incorporate Kim's Lord native plants Society Revard native plant list okay into the consultants list so that we can differentiate which are Bard County Natives and which are Regional Natives and which are non-natives so then then the other part of your motion is to add a column identifying what is Bard native use what's in Kim's so use what's in here not use Kim's spreadsheet she's got more metadata in here than you have in the five columns that you've got in your well do respect so we're just trying to figure out exactly the specific wording in your motion so we understand what the direction is so sorry so that one column should be should contain three options correct Michael yes well you could say fourth if it's you know off the list but three should be satisfactory you need one to identify Bard natives B could be B I like that you need a letter to identify Florida Regional natives could be r r and you need a letter to identify Florida non-natives or Exotics put an X I think that's elegant I think that does it except for the things that shouldn't be on the list which we've AB iterated before so that's what we're looking for is to try to get the most Bardin plants in the list and still leave enough that we're not going to make everybody upset so they don't have grass to plant or Palms to put up or so there's three parts to your motion first is combining to is is the column with the labeling of whether it's Bard Florida Regional or non-native and then the third part is removing specific vegetation specifically The Palms that Miss Thompson mentioned can you repeat which specific vegetation that you would like recommending to be removed um yes that would be um pendo Palm Chinese fan palm date palms which is Phoenix species which I I I really I have a question about you know the syal DAT palm and the pygmy dat Palm those are both Phoenix species so they should they be included too I I don't know how to answer that but the other specific one is a Windmill Palm we have a biologist on this team so yeah specifically the four that are absolutely identified as being susceptible to lethal bronzing are the pendo Chinese fan palm date palm species and The Windmill Palm but but that is take take it out of the code if we don't take it out of the code that architect is going to look at the code says here's the code I think we need make just explain how the Palms how the Palms are get to instead of a tree and the whole thing has been conversation but I think we can do that in a separate motion and not try to conglomerate it in with this motion thank you I again I I'm not the administrative part that's not my thing but at the end of the day what I look for is what are we what are we asking the people that are making the decisions to plan this or that okay and and that is where I want to be clear if if if if indeed the code is going to supersede this list I hate to say that in okay and you guys can hate me later on but the code will supersede this so we got to be realist as to how we do this and if we allow things in the code that we're not in favor of then we need to flush them out and make the code work for us since we get credits for trees which is at the end what we're after okay well this is this is going to be a separate motion okay right yeah this is an ordinance change not not what we're recommending for the the tree list so yes that's a separate motion I think that's my point okay so not including them in the merge is one thing coming and modifying the ordinance is another thing so we need to finish with this vote which is the merger and the less less the the less the pendo Chinese fan palm the date palms and The Windmill Palm are merged into one plant list for our engineering manual and then we'll get to this issue next so why don't we leave them in during the merge and then do a separate motion that would remove them and and change them in the um and remove them from well then we have to go back and make another motion to remove them from the plant list because we're talking about the plant list right now not the ordinance we have to keep them separate so let's not put them in the plant list and let's take them out of the ordinance so that it's done all right so do we need a one motion that removes them from the plant list well it's part of the motion that I made we're merging Kim's list with the the city consultants list sanss those Palms sanss the pendo Chinese fan palm the date palms and The Windmill Palm those don't get merged forward okay that's our list that's the motion that's on the table right now in addition to the extra labeling of whether it's native Florida Regional native or not Bard native yeah right right okay yes and and including that that's that's the motion that's on the table member y yeah just a question did I hear somebody say earlier that they're allowed to plant things that are not on the list this is the recommended list this is the educator in me if we take those Palms that are susceptible to the bronzing off the list then there's no notation about the bronzing I mean technically cabbage Palms get bronzing too but we're not talking about taking those off the list wouldn't it be better to leave them on the list that everyone's going to look at with a stronger notation that these carry this disease and it is not a great idea because that way a developer doesn't say I like Chinese fan Pals doesn't say anything about them here so I'll just put them in but this way we are communicating to people that these trees have a problem by removing them we will remove that educational mode so maybe we should leave them but with a stronger footnote that at this time it's not a great idea to plant these because they are spreading disease how about when we get to talking about this Motion in the future that we note that educational piece with the c cabage Palm because the Cabbage Palm is also susceptible but it's a native in Bard County so that one I don't really want to take off the list course but that's where your educational moniker would go and it would then highlight whatever Palms you want that are you know affecting this disease the spread of this disease even if they're not on the on the list we can we can add that as a footnote or something so I'm sorry to Buddy the water I'm a professor what I do that's why you're here so then that would modify your that would that would then modify your no because that has to do with the ordinance we're not dealing with the ordinance yet we're still dealing with the plant list we're trying to get that vote so forward so we can yeah but your original motion included removing the the the my my original motion included not incorporating these Palms in the merg of the two documents we're still talking about the plant list let's not lose focus can I make a recommendation that we have one motion that involves the merging and the column and get that done because I think there's not a lot of debate on that and then we have a second motion about what to do with what's included just to because this is really getting garbled yeah all right then let's let me all right and if I I'm going to withdraw it and restate it Tom is that okay yeah all right sorry it's taking so long go back to the U I'm going to make the motion that we start with Kim's vard native plant list and we merge into Kim's Bard native plant list the plant list from the consultant that way the consultant's list will show up integrated with this and be distinguishable from the bavard Native list because the column formats won't be filled in exactly the same so it'll be easy to manipulate the spreadsheet to figure out what's Bard native what's Regional native duplicates will easily be pulled out called out so it's it's a simple spreadsheet manipulation if we simply merge the consultants list into Kim's list Sans the pendo fan date palms plural and windmill separate oh you want to do the Palms the separate I wasn't going to merge them into the list right from the beginning the separate was the ordinance part this is just creating list I don't want them going into the list that's what I'm trying to stop all right so say it again we're going to start with Kim's list we're going to merge the consultant's list into her spreadsheet using her columns and then we can determine which ones are duplicates we'll know which ones are non Bard natives because they'll be listed as natives in the consultants list and we remove the fan palm the Chinese fan palm the pendo palm the date palms and the windmill that gives us a list of these two merged together and in a column or format that'll be easily easy to manipulate afterwards so that we can get a unique merger without duplicates do that do you understand that Brad is that good enough I think I understand however there's an issue with okay what's that so City council's Direction their original Direction was to utilize the format that we have as far structure of our listing okay so you really need that column okay well no not it's not about the column um if you go to the yeah the agenda right you'll see how the plantings are grouped from the beginning we start with um let me go back to the top here so on page 11 of your packet you'll see overstory trees that's the First Column the or the first grouping rather right and then further down you'll see understory trees and so on and so on there's reason for that grouping and that's consistent that's so that we can implement this consistent with the requirements of the landscape code in our code okay so you have right now A a column for Native right and you just have yes or no right so yes could become Bard native and Native a regional native sure so your original your other motion where it said the reverse would take we scrap that I'm trying to get to what's going to work for you for this so would would it be better to merge Kims into this column format that would be more consistent with what council has asked yeah as far as maintaining the structure do I have to say something about changing this this column of native versus yes no and versus Bard Regional or non well if we go back to your original motion had three parts first part said merge kin into the consult consultants and then the second part was add the column and identify by three codes whether it's Bard native florid um Regional native or not right and then the third part is what Mr y was suggesting not including in this motion and that was removing the the listed palms and dealing with that as a separate motion so you're if we go back to your original motion you only have those first two parts combine them together and add that column with the well you don't need to add the column if you re develop the way you're using the native column now correct yeah I yes now I follow you so if you do that then I don't have to add that as part of the motion right is that understood or do I have to well the what you because it's a change you need a part of the motion well current the current list has it listed as or the proposed list has it as native yes or no yeah what you had in your original motion was that column would State BR RX B Bard native R floer Regional native and X nonfer right is that still correct yeah would work fine in this column right here where you have native okay so your you want me to say it in the motion or not that's what I'm asking well I can let me State your motion you maybe you concur we can do it that way all right so your motion from what I understand and everyone just please tell me if I'm incorrect is to merge Miss Kim Gibb's list into the consultant's list update the native column in the consultants list with the following codes whether the vegetation is Bard native B Florida Regional native r or Florida non-native X right Kim's Kim's list would all be Bard Regional or Bard native and I would assume that anything that's in the consultants list that's not on Kim's list would ultimately be a a regional native because Kim's list is all vouchered to be in Florida in our County yeah if that's your motion it's approved we'll go forward and verify and make sure that's updated correctly according all right and then the removal of the four y of the of the palm trees the six Palms that's part of the motion as well that they not be part of that mer okay now no you want that as a separate motion no I if you want that in your motion that's fine that's what you originally stated that's part three of your motion however Mr y suggested not doing that then you decided to amend your motion to remove that and then you said add the consultants's list into Miss Kim Gibb's list and then add this make consistent with her structure or format and then removing PA yeah we've bounced back and forth the question is which way do you want it to go it seems like from the column or format you suggested it would be better to merge Kim's list into the consultants list because the column or structure matches what you need okay that's fine that's the basis of the motion as long as we remove the six palm trees okay so we're keeping part three of your original motion in your motion then so we're not making any changes yes because the part that Jim was talking about had to do with the ordinance changing the ordinance and I was going to make that a separate motion if we take them out of the approved plant list then they have to be removed from the ordinance to understand but that's not what I me sorry then I miss separate motion oh you want to discuss the palm tree separately is that okay okay all right I'm game I'm I'm just trying to make this motion doable this is I thought I was well it's been about half an hour now clarifying it so I just hope wish we could get something done let's uh keep it simple you know one at a time yeah so uh I think Brad had finally stated what what we're going to do okay for the for the first Mo motion we merge and we um modify modify that column and he knows exactly what's going to go in it from everything he said okay and we'll move on from there right second second okay does the Secretary understand the most your light is on sorry no okay so we have a motion to mer in with the consultant list and modify the um column that right now is is um it has yes or no and it's it's the native column modify that that column to indicate whether uh plant is from bravard for a b Regional native for an r or x for a non-native yeah okay all those in favor say I I any opposed all right the motion is approved unanimously all right so what do we want to do with the palm trees I I kind of agree with with member ya you know that that if we take them out then they could use them anyway at least by putting them in here leaving them in here with this very strong language that it it might be why would you put them in why would you leave them in the plant list if um if you don't recommend them I mean this is a list of recommended plants right I think Yan's uh point was to educate okay people are going to say well gee this isn't on here this is something that we've been using for years and years and years why not you know I like like that plant let's put it in this way you know it's in there it's uh labeled or maybe even uh colored in red you know that tells you you know what is educationally that you should know about it that it's going to kill the rest of your plants or whatever I just have a hard time recommending something that's not recommended I would make a motion that we take the fan palm the Chinese fan palm the pendo palm the three date palms and The Windmill Palm out of our recommended list of poems second discuss oh God getting there we're not what are we going to do with a code that's next that's next that's next what are we going to do with a code that's next motion okay okay because if you don't then it was a great exercise the motion is to remove pendo Palm Chinese fan palm date palm Phoenix species cigle date palm pyy date palm and Windmill Palm from from our list of recommended Palms the canary is not in there but but we can remove the canary when we get to the the ordinance okay so we had a motion by member my Jack and seconded by member Perez is there any further discussion all those in favor say I I I any opposed okay that motion carries all right now we deal with the with the ordinance don't right all right so list is done now we got to go to the ordinance thing where is that there I'll do this one um I move that the ordinance be amended to reflect the approved list will that work second would you in in in uh and handle a friendly amendment that we include a footnote on this page about lethal bronzing disease and recommend against you know certain Palms that are not on the list or something like that cabbage palms and so yeah there there should be some something in there that lets people know that when they're thinking about planting these that they should think twice a second for that though s second second do you need to identify those specifics well since the motion basically made this reflect what's in our planting list with Palms it's taken out all the ones that we've just taken out the one that remains that that to me is key is the cabbage palem and this would be the perfect footnote for that and any of the other p that are in here to give warning in the future that this may lead to lethal bronzing particularly if you choose Palms that are not on this list something like that is that that yeah I I yeah I would accept something along that line if we could if we could do that if such a thing belongs in the ordinance that as of this date these particular um these particular Palms are at risk for bronzing and uh and therefore have been removed and have been removed could we do that could we put a footnote like that in here that so you your the motion what you're suggesting is going to be recommending city council remove these particular Palms from that list on on Table 30-60 6 rather correct that was the motion and then add a footnote in the bottom of the table saying that these particular Palms that have been removed and list them out are lethal oring disease you can make that recommendation yeah if they don't like it they don't like it but I think it would be you know I agree well if the disease goes away we take it out you know we put the Palms back magic yes that still leaves Canary Island date palm and European fan palm both are both of which are susceptible to lethal bronzing should they be on the list too well if we only if we only adhere to the the list you know to keep it in line with the list we just the vote we just made that would take out pendo Pig pygmy Sagal Chinese fan but it would leave European fan palm and Canary Island date palm well you said to remove the Phoenix Palms the Canary Island date palm is Phoenix current carinus it is yeah that's true so that what should be gone yeah I mean they there they've identified 27 Palms now it's up to 27 or more Palms that are highly susceptible to lethal bronzing it doesn't leave a lot of popular landscape Palms left right um back to canopy trees yeah canopy trees and cabbage Palms they suck up more water anyway and get rid of storm water and anyway all right there's a motion on the table we should call the question can you repeat your motion really actually it was M member y's motion wasn't it yeah that the ordinance list be updated to reflect the accepted list we approved tonight and that a notation be placed that these Palms were removed because of bronzing and y That's it the motion was made by member Yao and seconded by member Tucker all those in favor say I I I any opposed okay Great China thank you for all your hard work looks like it's it's the gift that keeps on giving um so but we appreciate it we appreciate you and and all that you've been doing and we appreciate Brad and all your patience I also would like to thank Kimberly and those others that were absolutely behind us and made it that much better okay moving down the agenda um we're on to the environmental impact of Cumberland Farms um so um Jesse are you GNA speak or who's speaking come on up good evening my name is Jesse rright 3550 South Washington Avenue I'm assuming everyone has a packet I'd like to start off by discussing the first packet which is U just a then I'll discuss the pictures separately and if I can ask for 10 minutes instead of five that would be fabulous you guys okay with 10 minutes and 7 five that that way we don't have to interrupt him in the middle and have to give me more time you guys all right with that okay I'll try to be quick so on this first page basically this is coming from fdp and they do um basically indicate that this leak has been ongoing and it's also in the groundwater if you can note the code 62 780 which is basically the code that they've been hiding uh the Cumberland uh is basically what the point of the discussion is tonight if you could turn to the second page it's a picture of Cumberland and if you see the um the blue line that is the area where uh you have we have a electric line coming in from Hopkins so obviously they cannot drill there um the you see2 yellow portion I was wondering there should be extra packet I was wondering if Brad can have that one or Abigail if there's the extra one I only brought enough no I have one I just wanted to make sure you have it yeah okay um so the two yellow line basically indicates that the flow of the contamination is going more towards the North and it's coming towards the mall and those are the wells that they put in that's that's the second page if you go to the third page um you'll see this is a a sample of the geological that was done in the property and you can see on the top left where comberland is you see the ground this is a groundwater table these are basically the um the groundwater as you see on the property ranging from 3 and 1/2 ft all the way to 5T and uh the next page is just a couple of page that this is the latest um report that they sent me um and again on there you would see the rule 62780 and um and my comments there and this is basically a point of discussion T I'll discuss that in just a couple of minutes if you would please turn into the pictures now uh these are the pictures that I've provided the first picture basically shows where comberland is all the yellow lines are the areas that they've been Drilling and as you can see in this portion that's almost about 2 and a half to maybe even 3 or 4 Acres if you go to the next page these are the barrels that has been sitting there on the Cumberland gas station I assume I've asked them what these things are and they have refused to answer I assume these are the chemicals that they were planning on injecting to the ground I'm just referring to these barrels that you see on the second page I have not got a response and I have cced uh you and City Council on these communications directly with the comberland keler there and also the um FD if you look at the third page you will see a picture of a existing well that was closed and then they opened up another one right next to it now I don't know nothing about any of this but my Common Sense tells me why would you want to close a a whale and then open up another one right next to it within two feet so if you think that's stupid let's go to the next page now why would you want to have two whs right next to each other within two feet I don't get that um so those are what is already in your in your packet now I do have two clips of a audio if you like I like to play it the very first one does say that they have not used what they call OVA which is organic Vapor analyzer I'm sure you know that Mr Delgado and and uh this is what they use to measure the hydrocarbon vapor from the ground they've never used it so one of the video does mention that and the second sorry the audio the second audio is the attorney that basically says I don't know I don't know why FD or us we have not found the source I mean this is an attorney that came to the picture representing uh the um cumland Farm uh this is after another attorney um that came into the picture about six seven months ago so basically switching attorneys over and over again if I'm allowed to play those audios I'll be happy to do that it's less than about a minute maybe even 50 seconds on each side otherwise I can continue okay that I think we can go ahead and get started Mr rght as you know we went out there a few weeks ago we took some sampling data from the groundwater Wells we wanted to share with you uh the sampling data that we had and so I think uh Mike are you able to share your screen let me authorize it real quick good Mike is so Mike is is on the um okay it's on this call okay I met Mike in person okay good go ahead and share your screen Mike and we can go through the data all right okay good that's Michael okay step in the right direction okay can everyone see that yes I can all right so we were out in February and put in these uh nine additional Wells there were these two Wells were already there 12 R and 42 and we put in these other Wells 43 through 50 so what these Wells are we went from the area where Benzene was above the uh cleanup level and we went in the kind of presume down gradient Direction um to find the end of it and then we went cross gradient as well for the same reason to get the extent of it defined so right up by the site we had 10.9 Benzene and for reference the cleanup level for groundwater is one um so it's not quite at the cleanup level but it's close uh there's two cross radi Wells I'd like to go to the second video which the attorney on comence side basically says that uh no one actually looked for a source I mean this is like 20 years now if I may please excuse me yes um you I'm assuming you had permission to record this I did not I did not that makes me uncomfortable I'd like to continue if I may can you can you explain to us you know what what what was in the audios yes the what I was trying to ascertain was why are they continuing going towards the mall and going towards the uh us one on the first video the second the audio the second audio has to do with the fact that the new attorney that is just joined this whole mess is simply asking the team which is the U you see the letter that I gave you the copy of Clint filer I cannot pronounce it as to has anyone looked for the source Michael is the person that is new in the project that is running the the operation right now so it really is interesting and I asked the question of why fdp is continuing giving extension year after year if they put in the chemical into the ground which I don't want them to do then what happens is they would want another one year of extension I asked well can you not get the result in 6 months they said no we need one year of exension so I'm not really wanting to give them any more extension I've asked them why you have not put in if I may ask for another five minutes please I asked him on this picture why have you not put in whales in the area where the residential areas are why the whales was not put in near the residential by the river why have you not used the OV excuse me OVA to measure if there's any gas coming out of the ground why have you not done all that and why FD is continuing to give extension and taking my rights away to develop this part of the project I'm not able to get loan to do this portion which is a phase two simply because I cannot get a further action letter from FD FD is really being a referee here in a way but basically they're saying well it's between you and Cumberland if you have a referee in any kind of a game any kind of a basketball football or whatever you should be able to let each side know what they can or cannot do the word progress to me means means nothing this is not progress if every year this is going to continue I don't know what they mean by the word so long as they're having progress we're going to continue giving them extension that's just not right especially when they don't consult with a property owner to see what it is that we want to do ask acting as a proxy for a property owner that is doing that so I'm concerned about my my development and I'm also concerned about the resid on the North side and I'm also concerned about the residential on US1 I live at 35 uh 41 uh South Washington Avenue I have a house there and also a condo I'm also a recipient as one of the residents that is concerned sometimes I go out to the river and I see the river is being very murky I stand talked about the sewage being disposed there and I'm really worried about what is all this coming in the fact is is the contamination is in a pocket below the ground up to about 14 15 ft it is already in the groundwater why don't you get the damn bulldozer take the whole damn thing out replace it and we'd be done with it they have the deep pocket to do that and that's basically the whole the whole case I'd be happy to answer any questions this is under FD remediation right yes sir so what I'm not sure that's a that's a state level um and I'm not sure what we can do from the city's perspective to to help I mean I I fully appreciate and understand and I agree with you the citizens to the north and possibly the other side of US1 I mean I I don't if they haven't done any Wells out there then we really don't know if it's just moving to the east it could be going in several different directions that's a good question uh my respond to that is this is also your city as well you know we can't allow an entity like this if they're doing it here they're probably doing it other places too excuse me so in reality are we just going to let fdp run the show and keep on giving him the extension my voice is not enough to be able to make an impact and at the same time I'm considering swing both the FD and also Cumberland this is going to take a lot of years but in the meantime the people that are Liv in that area they have really they did nothing to deserve this and I'm really concerned I mean I know most of these neighbors I've been here excuse me again I've been here since 2017 since hurricane Irma came came through when I purchased them all and I've gone around and met all the neighbors and I cannot see this is going to continue um having an impact for the groundwater that is is is in a pocket so I'm merely asking for the city to be involved I just don't understand in what capacity I would love to be able to help but I'm not sure how could we uh make a recommendation as the environmental commission that Wells be installed in the areas where the homes are to the north and to the east to protect the citizens around the area yeah determine the extent of the damage well to protect obviously we' find out everything else as well but uh I think that would be prudent for us as the environmental commission to make that recommendation that the city uh look into having some knowledge as to how much contamination if any is affecting our neighborhoods to the north and to the east 10.9 Parts Benzene that's that's up there that's that's non honkin lymphoma somewhere you know and somebody's drinking water well they should know agree that I think that first what we maybe to do is get information from the city to request maybe a one sheet as to what the city's awareness is of this problem and what if any steps they're taking to address it and once we have that information then we could maybe better make a recommendation because we don't really know what they're doing or what they know or anything that's going on yet yeah no I agree with you and I'm surprised that that kind of information isn't coming forth considering you know the topic at hand and this individual coming forward with this information shouldn't we know or have been privileged to have that information from the city if it did exist yeah so I mean my premise was well we don't have that information right and therefore let's get that in or let's make the recommendation to get that information BR do you have anything you could report to us on this you've obviously been working gentlemen yeah I can give you some information so on at your last meeting you had asked what the city can do and so we thought we would speak with code enforcement so we sent to you an email on February 23rd with the following statement from the code enforcement department it says according to code enforcement staff Bill referred to by Mr Wright is still under the jurisdiction of FD the case with notes is available online they were out there last week checking the area the report of spill using 3.11 of the city's code which is he attached an email and I also sent to you would only be in effect for any other for anything that after October 2016 even with that it falls to the fire department for inspection and followup the gas station across the street is also being monitored by them the only code involvement was with the permit for tank Replacements in 2001 through 2004 and Landscaping in 2006 and again in 2013 outside of that we don't have any additional information on this so again this is still as stated before appears that this is strictly a a state um case what did I hear you say about the involvement of the fire department is that what you said they stated in the email to me that um that the code that we have in place right now would become effective would be used would be utilized for anything that happened after 2016 and the fire department would be involved in part of that inspection you you do understand this has been going on since 1983 it's been 41 years I mean I realize that and we don't have a better solution than than than waiting I'm I'm not happy with that and you know when an attorney on behalf of comberland comes out and says let me check to see if they have done anything at the The Source it means she doesn't know anything think about any of this stuff it is cheaper for Cumberland to keep paying $7 $800 an hour attorney fees than having to dig this up replace it and we move on be a good neighbor now City's voice would be very very important to me because in reality I'm just one voice we send out um multiple takes to towards social media and talk of Titusville I'm really surprised there's not as many neighbors here tonight and I don't think they even know what's going on if you don't know what's going on then of course and then of course the other thing is the OVA I mean it's don't you want to at least not you but I mean them don't they want to know if there is a fum coming out of the out of the ground and I and maybe it is and can if theep just run the show and the city just is just passing the buck Brad we are the Water Resources board I would think that that would give us some oversight to our groundwater resources as well would it not I can only respond to what your duties are according to the code it seems like at the very least we should make a recommendation to city council to look into resolving this issue been going on for far too long yeah I agree I don't know what else we can do to get this ball rolling yeah and I think uh you know the premise uh should be the safety of the citizen that's okay perhaps the city could go and and inspect some of the ground yeah water around that area regardless of who is supposed to be in charge in charge I think we have a responsibility to our citizens things have stagnated for far too long I thought I had a copy of our duties with me but apparently I left it at home um but you're right we are the Water Resources board and I don't see why we can't make a recommendation to the city council that they send some kind of a strong letter to D you know asking why why this continues to go on and what can be done about it I agree well maybe a even a little more proactively to say Hey you know we want to know what to tell our citizens you know and safe are they safe living across the street or what precautions do they need to take you know y has his light on that we could that uh that we as the TC make a recommendation to the city that for the safety of the citizens near this plume that all efforts to investigate be expedited we could make that recommendation because they're already on it kind of but we are we as the environmental commission certainly sympathize with the business angle of it but in terms of health and safety of everyone concerned uh we would recommend that this be expedited the resolution of it be expedit yeah I'll second that chairwoman we had one more card on this item call the next card uh Lisa motter thank you hi Lisa motter Country Club Drive first of all I want to thank you for um for what you do to enhance our environment here not just in this setting but I've seen you all over the years and been in different meetings and you really have made a difference um as far as this goes uh with our water we did vote that we wanted clean water in Titusville I voted that I wanted clean water in Titusville and I know there are problems with that but it doesn't um negate the fact that that is who we are and that's what we want not just in the river but we do want clean drinking water and I don't live across the street but I do live across the railroad tracks just a block away so I don't know if it affects me but I would really like to know and I I whatever you all can do to um really just remediate it or to move towards that would be appreciated I know not just from me as you know being involved with with the project or with Jesse but me as a neighbor and the other neighbors that are around me so thank you okay so um can you repeat the motion yeah I didn't actually state it as a motion but I will uh that the Tec recommend to the city that this Matter's resolution be expedited for the safety of the citizens of the surrounding area second yes second any more discussion okay all those in favor say I all right all those in favor say I I I do recommend do recommendations to city council require a Voice vote probably member Perez yes Vice chairman maack yes member Delgado yes member y yes member COI yes member Tucker yes chairwoman Thompson yes okay um come on back up Jesse this this site is about nine acres and what is going to be built there mainly is going to be um offices retail and medical it happens to be within 20 30 ft from the senior living that's we're going to be putting in a phase one so that's how important this site is thank you okay moving right along um Earth Earth Day 2024 um at our last meeting um you guys discussed the possibility of having a uh table or a booth at the Enchanted Forest Earth day so I um if you are still interested in that we need to probably Define what it is that we want do we are there materials that we can hand out to people um what I think we you said that remember y you said that we've had the table in the past what did we do at the table in the past well first of all I wanted to ask if you'd got an email that has be forwarded to you because I'm not sure it might not be too late to get a place did did you contact them or did anyone contact chain enforce yeah I can't I can do it haven't yet but I'm on the board there so I can contact okay yeah because I remember there used to be sort of a deadline and I asked I thought that I had something forwarded to you I guess I didn't but um oh you did okay I can make that notification because you have to call and there's certain allotted sites and it may be too late but if it isn't too late yeah what we had was a table that folded out the city provided that and we had a tent that set up on four big posts and there was a banner that said city of Titusville and then we would usually have I don't I'm not sure what we would have to show this time around but we would usually have like uh our we used to bring out our bike trail map we were always planning bike trails back then so we had the bike trail map and on the table we had things things that were given away especially to kids like little coloring things uh that sort of stuff right and and colored pencils and we had um I think one year we had city of Titusville like drink opener rubber things just whatever they had there was like a whole tub of things that that they gave us that we could give away uh that was just bling at the table and things like that and again we had the posters and then we would talk about stuff like we might want to for example um have like a flyer if someone puts to a little flyer of like the tree list or like maybe our semiannual report uh that we could have copies of that page and that we could hand out just to show that what we are doing and things like things along that line are what we used to do Brad what's our inventory very low um Abby is going to reach out to the public works department and see if they have any particular uh brochures or anything that they can distribute to us you know stles there was also stuff about like conserving water and different Flyers like that and that we probably things about native plants in fact I think we actually might have gotten some stuff from the Native Plant Society that we used to hand out some of their stuff as well um but there was some logistic issues like someone had to pick the stuff up from the city the day before someone with a pickup truck which I don't have anymore and so uh well we could take find what we can and put in a box we've done this for other boards and just had that ready for someone to come and pick up and usually Eddie would have it and I would come in my truck and pick it all up okay and then I would keep it at my house and take it there that morning and then we would set it up and then afterwards someone would keep it over the weekend and bring it back to the city on on Monday morning and that's how it generally ran and we would run usually two people two people did the morning and two people did the afternoon is how would usually do it does the city still have that tent like a 10 by10 tent we need to look for it I mean you can do without it unless it rains you know but it's usually to have shade yeah it's especially when you're as old as I am it depends on where you are because sometimes people yeah that's bad we usually were lucky and got under the trees okay and then um my question and and to the email was forwarded I received it I did get it I just dropped the ball I'm sorry um I said I would contact somebody and I didn't but we can I'm sure that we can get a spot my question now is are is who all wants to participate I would would okay all right so we got and I would too you wanted to okay about what about in the in the in the in the lower lower deck there are you guys interested too lower deck dfield what day of the week is it Saturday yes I might be able to do the afternoon on that day I think it runs from like 10 to 2 or something like that so it's nice if some people somebody wants to come like in the middle for an hour in case like both people have to leave and the other two people haven't shown up yet or something like that I mean if the booth is unoccupied for a few minutes it's not you know worlds aren't going to crumble we can work that out yeah and my next question was does it need to be public noticed Brad that we're going to be all together at this one location we can do that okay yeah it was never an issue it was just understood that we would not sit there and discuss right business yeah so um several months ago I don't remember what it what it was there was some kind of thing and there were like stations all around um this room and um and and people different people had tables and they were they were handing out all kinds of really cool Lit Literature at that so and some of it was I think some of it was City staff so there should be enough stuff you know that we we can gather up stuff to hand out um but I think it'd be good I think it I think it would be good to have a presence there her name I'm sorry I missed her name was it Kim Kim yeah if if someone knows her if she plans on coming to another meeting someone might call and say hey do you want to bring us if do you have anything at Native Plant Society you would want us to hand out it or they'll probably be there yeah by the way we also to give away a lot of trees but that was a Tony thing uh the no that was actually the tree farm yeah have we I could look into that yeah that was very popular people like to take the the little seedlings it looks like it looks like we are a go for having a table at Enchanted Forest on Earth day and we finalize plans the next yes so yeah we will have one more meeting before then so that's good okay um so uh next on the agenda is native Municipal canopy Landscaping native plantings and management trust fund we're opening up a discussion here yes motion to extend the meeting a half hour you guys okay with that but but that's like a dead stop we got 20 or earlier 27 minutes to to to work through this so all right all right you guys all right with extending the meeting till 8 o' okay here we go okay you're you're up the name the native Municipal tree canopy and Landscape Management trust fund or simply the native landscape trust fund so in summary what I wanted to say was that you know we've witnessed this growing loss to Florida natives due to human development our environment our natural living habitat is being consumed by concrete impervious surfaces and compaction and if this continues it's going to squeeze the nature right out of Titus Bill's motto cities are impervious and they need to be a little squishy if we're going to survive there has to be places for trees and water squishy I know I I I picked that up last week and I absolutely love the analogy because concrete and well anyway so we have to prepare for the future and and thinking what's our city going to look like and I thought that every citizen wants a professional police protection they want highquality fire department the best possible administrators the city can offer but how many people insist on the welfare of their community's Treasure of trees entrusted to Professional Management our University one University study indicated to me that 39% of municipalities systematically care for their publicly owned trees and fewer than 15 actually higher Foresters the result is that many of the urban forests are in trouble and throughout American cities more shade trees are are dying than are being replaced scarce financial resources are being wasted on plantings that are doomed from the start and life extending practices like soil improvements pruning and Disease Control are often neglected by contrast communities that employ a professional to manage their trees are the big winners in our community native plants trees and shrubs win big they've lived here for thousands of years without fertilizer insecticides or watering once established they survive drought fire heavy rains and all manner of bugs because natives are naturally resistant to them these are features of Our Land Development is not likely to stop so proper Resource Management going forward should be key we need to be employing better practices things like pocket rain Gardens and structured Wetlands manage a manage Urban Forest yes from canopy to melum maintenance too employ Alternatives and create storm water pra creative storm water practices need to become the day in summary we need to do some engineering with nature and so with that in mind the plan the native trans the native landscape trust fund is a very simple process it's going to assess mitigation fees on new developments it will assess development incentives based on the type and style that of the development with the remainder of any funds or fees collected going into an urban Forest management trust fund that will manage an urban Forest throughout our city in in specifically on the handout that I gave you guys the native plant mitigation fee assessment should be based on those things that we can point to are that are concurrency items down the road we need to Value existing habitat and soil types which right now we don't consider we have many different soil types and many different habitats and different species are found on those and those are not considered either we need to consider as well the scenic Heritage and the natural beauty consider natural Land versus d disturb Land versus redeveloped land which has more value to the native environment the one with more value should have a higher impact fee there are hydrological services rendered by these lands right now undeveloped they absorb all their storm water they also provide groundwater recharge at no additional cost carbon capture that's taken care of too disturbance of the top ology in other words are they messing with the melum are they digging up the land and re reorganizing all of that when you do that you affect the ability of that land to support life so that's an impact there are endemic threatened and endangered species and they can be identified by simply looking at the soil types and the habitat Types on that parcel and if those soil types and habitat types exist we can assume that that's habitat for those endangered and threatened species and whether they are there or not that habitat is valuable and it means something to Titusville there's also from a storm water perspective there are nutrient load increases there's a loss of vegetation which means there's a loss of trans evaporation which means there's additional increases in storm water simply because the plants can no longer take it up that storm water becomes runoff actually all storm water is runoff it runs off the land there's the introduction of fertilizers and pesticides and herbicides that were not there before that land was developed that are there after that land is developed that is now contained in our storm water that is not being accounted for there will be new sanitary sewers built which means there's an increase in Black Water water processing to the to the city it also means there's an increased amount of affluent and biosolids that are being produced those need to be accounted for in this mitigation fee there's an additional groundwater resource impact because groundwater recharge is now diminished due to all the additional impervious surface and therefore because groundwater's diminished the future groundwater resources will also be diminished over time which increases portable water demands with population growth which means there's additional straws going into it I think all of those things taken into account can provide the basis for a mitigation fund for native plants and native trees now how does that fund get used and this is where the idea started with the tree mitigation fund that became a beautification fund that is still not being used for the beautification of trees in the city so here is how I think that fund should be deployed I think when a development goes in if that developer decides to use loow impact development then they should get a 50% rebate or incentive off of that mitigation fee all things being considered I think that's a worthwhile value to the city I think Bard count vouchered Bard County native plants should recover between Z and 25% of that mitigation incentive if they plant between 30 and 80% respectively Bard County native plants I think they can recover 0 to 12 a half% if they plant 30 to 80% respectively Florida Regional native plants and of course I don't think there should be any incentive given to plants that are nonnative and Bard County or regionally native in other words I think all Exotics should not regain any incentive for being planted they could be on the recommended list but we don't give them an incentive the remainder of the funds for example someone that chooses not to use Li the remainder of the those funds will go into a native Urban Forest management plan which will provide Urban Forest management and growth throughout the year it recovers the remainder of the native plant trust fund the funding can support a year-round Urban Forest Management program that pays for a full-time Forester which can report to the tree board which is us it can provide overall awareness tree awareness programs to the community this Forester and our forest Management program can ensure that funds and resources are spent wisely can initiate and assist volunteer groups like The Garden Club and our Florida Native Plant Society Friends of the Enchanted Forest and others to enlit into the development of our city we train he can train or she and supervise City Crews and contractors on ordinance compliance they can become champions for tree plantings and preservation of existing trees throughout the city and the Forester can work with engineers and protect trees during Highway construction road widening there's much that can be done in the maintenance capacity that will allow our trees and our Urban Forest to thrive and one thing I want to consider specifically since this this is a native plant trust fund it's not just the canopy trees that are important it's also the understory and the shrubs and the low-level plantings and the mycelium into the ground so it's from canopy to melium that's important and if we're planting natives we're doing the best that we can to feed our environment I think we can count on an urban Forest manager to implement our tree board Urban Forest plan and this process iteratively as it is should provide sustainable funds for the tree board to be able to continue to develop an urban tree canopy for the city of Florida that's what I'm proposing any comments sounds fabulous so it it looks like if they do Li and they they use Bard County native plants they can eliminate 75% of this um mitigation mitigation fee yep is there a way to get it to 100% I think if we do that then we lose the ability to continue to grow and evolve this tree board and our Urban Forest because a urban Forest takes management a management takes a manager someone to be doing that to be managing that process and if we're going to to do that and have oversight then there has to be a flow of money a budget of some sort that covers that and this does both it it allows us to solidify the tree board and justify the complaints that I had in the last meeting which somehow didn't get tabled to this meeting and we'll talk again in the next but it gives us the ability to actually have the oversight that the tree board was requested of by the city council and it provides a funding mechanism to make all this work so I think is a as a process um this is just an outline you know I've been thinking about this and stewing on it for a couple of months you guys kind of just got hit with the details today but this needs to be something that we develop as a commission and and bring forward to the city and I think that this kind of approach will hopefully uh give us a better outcome in the future member young just a question these numbers on the on the back page uh were these taken from an existing plan somewhere or these numbers that you just put on here the 20 to 80 30% yeah like the 50% to 25% did that come from somebody's existing plan no that was actually uh I I was just thinking what was most important what's the most important thing that we can be doing and I started out looking at native plants and I began to realize that native plants also need native habitat and to get native habitat you've got to do something a little different than moonscape the thing and compact the soil you've got to you have to either amend it or you have to plan ways to making that work and and so I realized that liid is probably the most important thing that we can do for groundwater recharge and restoration of our of our lands so I put that at the top of the list and I thought that should be half the value so are there existing plans of this nature that we could mimic nope somebody this was this was right off out of the air right out of the Thin Blue so sorry yeah I have to kind of so Brad um last night at the city council meeting um I I I wasn't able to watch it but on the agenda was a discussion about soil soil compaction and also they were dredging up a discussion about the um the land scaping fund um were you there last night do can you give us a idea of how those discussions went please thank you there were a couple of items on the city council's agenda yesterday um one was the soil amendment ordinance was a first reading of the ordinance basically it was an ordinance that um we drafted at the city council's direction from several years ago um it took a while to get to it including other ordinances mainly because of some state law laws that were um passed but then reversed um basically what it allows us to do is to it kind of backs us up when we ask for a u a contractor or you know the developer to um amend the soil on a site in order to allow make sure that the vegetation um is Will Survive after planting Main and this is result of sometimes you find uh properties that are being redeveloped for example and the soil on that property is has been compacted and has been you know depleted in some way that it doesn't really support really uh vegetation so you have to amend it in some way and so the language is really to help our staff um enforce some require requests basically that u based on best practices to make sure that the soils are properly treated in order to make sure the vegetation is part of an improved landscape plan uh Will Survive the the there will be a a final public hearing on that on March 26 before city council the second item had to do with um a discussion a recommendation that the commission this commission made to the city council several years ago related to the landscape trust fund you had asked them to consider um limiting the use of the landscape trust fund monies for the planting of O canopy trees council at that time in 2021 support reported that we looked at the motion um I'm sorry the summary of action from City council's meeting at that time you have brought it up several times we evaluated what they said we also looked at the city council's meeting minutes and believe we felt that we needed to go back to city council to ask them to clarify what they were really saying so on the agenda item we put the summary of action and that the council stated at that meeting in 2021 stating that they were in support of the idea that after the um Gateway plans that the city council the city has right in the public works has in reviewed by fot for landscaping that the additional monies half of that will be dedicated to the planting of canopy trees uh council at 2021 generally supported that but they didn't make any particular direction about that and if they did give us direction we would have had to come back with them with an amendment to the actual resolution that originally established that landscape trust fund that didn't happen last night they decided to not make any action because uh based on their discussion they wanted to have as much flexibility with the use of those funds as much as possible so the resolution says uh that the funds in that landscape trust fund that we currently have must be for plantings on public property for public purpose and that they wanted that general statement to be available for them to have as much flexibility as possible so that's they didn't make any action on that so those are the two things that happened last night I think that's what you're referring to so we're still then um since they didn't take any action we're we're still in the position that all of the landscape trust fund money will be used for the Gateway projects and then once the Gateway projects are completed um then 50% % of that money can be used for planting canopy trees in public places that was the recommendation that the count the Commit This commission made to city council several years ago Council verbally supported that but they didn't make any specific direction to City to staff that's why we went back to them last night to ask them for clarification they did not give us any direction in other words they they decided to not make action so they did not give us direction to amend the resolution So based on what the resolution says now there is no um provision in there that says that 50% of the funds shall be dedicated to canopy it just says right now what it has always said since 2001 and that is it should be used for public purpose on public lands for planting of Vegeta of landscaping and that's generally what it says that's discouraging well still at 50% huh no it's not I thought they voted on that no no sir they decided not to go forward with any specific Direction on that the reason that they decided not to make any directions they wanted flexibility the discussion I heard yesterday was that they want to hear Pro proposals for projects as part of the budget on an annual basis so right now um the public works department with council's approval already has set aside some funds from the landscape trust fund for that Gateway Landscaping project project that's currently in permit review with fot the remaining funds are there they have not been allocated yet for any specific projects as far as I understand do you know how much of the um fund is going to be used on gateways now has the Gateway been trimmed down any or is it still well over a million oh I I thought about half a million was going to be utilized out of the trust fund for the Gateway projects but we can confirm that um I know the price tag for the full project is a lot more and so there's some aspects of that whole uh project that are that currently not funded yet or nothing's been approved yet uh again though it's still in permit review with fot so we're just waiting on to see what they say okay thank you well um that's helpful so what do you guys think about member my Jack's plan here conceptually I think it's very good and deserves credit to be elevated uh from the philosophical to the inner workings how's this going to work because while Mike was explaining very eloquently the plan in my mind what was happening was what happens in my mind who's responsible who gets a voice where is this person located in other words Planning and Zoning can do whatever they want and by the time it gets to him it's done or her it's done so so therefore I was looking more the mechanics of how to inject so that from the beginning of any project or any conversation with project that this idea gets injected into so that it goes into the planning phase because if we don't I I I strongly believe if we don't get involved in the planning phase it's a battle all the way and and and so in my mind as Mike was going through it I'm going okay exactly how do we do this mechanically because this is where we seem to be at a disadvantage the conversation on the money for the money monuments and and the other stuff uh it's perfect example of a day late yeah okay and so in my mind I want to be there the day not a day late and and have a voice yeah not only that but have a voice in that in in that so that that that's what I was trying to think through how do how do we need to elevate what Mike to put some mechan and at least take it for a test drive and see how it works with the inner working of the city you know all the other boards people that are approving you know a lot of a lot of development and if we don't get in there early it's going to be hard so that that's all I want to say about that and Mike thank you that was a good job yeah it's it's a different process it's a new process that we would be adding but I think it's um it fills a it it fills a piece having set up the plant list now so that we know what's native what's native Regional and what's non-native gives us the the the hook that we can figure out which plants count what you know so it's really a question of what the city wants to do with regards to how they want to handle this mitigation when the tree mitigation fund was per set up every tree greater than 6 in was considered mitig mitigation feed and you had to pay a fee against that we've raised that up to 20 in now right so there's fewer funds going into the mitigation fund a lot fewer well what I'm raising is the issue that there's more than just trees that we're losing on this land we're losing services that are environmental services that are going to now have to be provided by us by the city and that's going to cost additional funds and resources right and so to me that's what the impact is if you have somebody moving in that's new and you're having to build a home they didn't pay to build the roads they didn't pay to put in the schools they didn't pay for our existing fire police Rescue portable water storm water or sanitary sewer they are consuming excess resources that we have in capacity which are supposed to be their for when we have floods and hurricanes and other natural disasters so though that to have and maintain that increased capacity means that we have to be charging an impact fee toward new development and that impact fee at least as far as these environmental concerns that I've rattled off are concerned I think are justifiable and can provide the basis of doing an urban Forest program and actually getting it done because once we've got money flowing in we got a Forester taking care of the city working on the plan that we develop as the tree board we have a functioning board and that's something that I don't think we have yet and that's what I was trying to raise when I brought up the issue of what our charging orders were we've been given charged to be the tree board for this city and we've not been given the capacity or handles to do it and I thought this would be a way that we could become effective and helping to beautify and grow our city as a tree City so that's that's why I propose this and you know you guys want to change the percentages or balance you know feel free I I threw this out here because I I heard people saying well we shouldn't have less than 30% native and other people saying well we don't need more than 80% that because then you can't have turf grass and ornamentals and so I figured that was a good bound range you know 30 to 80% you could make it 20 to 70 I don't care it it the idea was what I was trying to get across was how we're going to utilize what we're losing to justify replacing that as our city grows forward so that we can build in these squishy spaces into our our natural impervious City so how do you want to move forward um well I think we should ask the staff for coming and see what we can do to to move this process forward thank you um I I'm not sure where else to go next I mean I've I've put together the idea in the outline I've Tred to explain it as best I can but it's going to be up to us to decide whether to take it forward and if so how far well I think you did a good job explaining it so if the committee is okay with us you know ask Brad to take this to the staff for comments I think that's a good good first step anybody else have member Perez no it's just uh sort of reflecting on the fact that uh otherwise uh we're nowhere man I mean the fact of the matter is nobody's going to do this what you just did for us unless we do it ourselves and you took the lead to develop it or to Envision it let's start are you good with that Brad I would recommend that you make a recommendation to city council because what you're ask you're the recommending body to them they would have to give the staff direction as to what to do and whether to research this ISS this these questions you need their permission you need the city council's permission just to research it before you come back to us with comments yes yes they they have to authorize the time that staff would spend on an Endeavor like this so I would recommend that you make a recommendation to city council to consider this this proposal okay and then they would have to decide how to go forward with that um whether they may be asking staff to come back with some feedback or research or what whatever that might be or maybe do send it back to you for more clarification that's possible as well so it would go on the city council's agenda at at at a meeting at some point in time and then it would behoove us to show up and comment and support why why we're suggesting it yes as the commission as the recommending body the city council you're recommending a policy change so that is your role so you would need to this sounds what I'm seeing here this is a policy recommendation to city council so you're asking them to consider to adopt explore and adopt a policy well my question would be is this in line with the city's Vision because if it isn't it's not going anywhere which vision would that be whatever the city's vision is for the natural um area of the city is this in line with what their vision is I mean are we even going in the right direction well any policy change is going to be a change of that Vision or whatever that policy is whatever City council's direction is so if we're talk I'm sorry do they have a vision for the natural lands of the city do they have a vision well the vision I think you're you're probably referring to is what I would refer to is the the policies that you see in the comprehensive plan okay so we would look at the comprehensive plan as a first starting point see what is the guidance that we can provide to city council because anything we do would have to be consistent with that comprehensive plan otherwise we'd have to amend that document right are we getting ready to do that soon it's a matter of fact in the next agenda item uh AB is going to give you a a summary of some things have been happening including um some work that we have that will be coming to you soon as far as interviews and workshops related to environmental policies to cons consider uh as part of a project to possibly amend the comprehensive plan so that's upcoming so we're going to ask she's going to bring that up and we we're going to be asking your your um input and participation in that in the next few meetings possibly so we need to extend the meeting need to extend the meeting for 15 minutes just so you know there is no adopted bylaw policy related to extending your meeting oh oh there is there is not oh so we don't have to waste time you don't have to do that unless you want to go ahead and amend your bylaws to do that no thank you how come we've been doing it I think it was an informal Pol or agreement that the commission made several years ago well maybe we're just copying the city council because we see them do all the time huh why you've been here all because when we were when we were when I joined the years and years and years ago we were told that we had a two-hour meeting and then uh one of the chairs used to let the meetings go way over and then when I took over his chair I was basically called into the City and was told these meetings will take two hours because they have to pay people all right not gonna we're not going to vote on it extend in the meeting but um but we will vote you need a motion I think we need a motion um you know so why don't you make a motion on how you want to proceed I would like to make a motion that we propose a policy to city council for the native Municipal tree canopy and Landscape Management trust fund as a process by which we can grow our native Titusville Treet canopy and native plants is there a second can you clarify that motion I'm sorry it was your what's the action you're asking councel you're recommending them we're asking councel for permission to proceed right with this policy approach that we recommend okay and as far as it reaches into the comprehensive plan I want to make sure that we do that too and it sounds like you're already on the ball with that so do we need their permission to proceed I mean well we need we need to get council's permission to give Brad and staff time money authorization to comment so before we actually submit that recommendation I mean you didn't put a time frame in your motion so uh could we have another meeting to like flesh this out like in pros and not like an outline but like a one sheet where it's set and explained that we would submit I would be more comfortable with that because you want to rewrite it well the outline is is good if someone's explaining it to you but it doesn't read well alone oh so it would be good if we had like a couple of paragraphs that would summarize your position on this like a white paper yeah before we send it to council and we we would look at that next meeting and then submit all right I'll make a motion to put it on the agenda for the next meeting so that we can review it would that be better and then forward that along to to councel motion second move to table okay I make a motion that we uh we propose the uh Native Municipal tree canopy and Landscape Management trust fund or simply the native landscape trust fund um as a policy recommendation to city council and then we'll table it once we finish it yeah yeah once we finish it so second and then table it how's that second okay um so there's a motion by member ma Jack and it's seconded by member um Perez there was something in the minutes that is moved to the April meeting let's see your powers and duties poers and duties okay the next meeting okay so those can be the two items on the next meeting this because they go together right okay sounds good all those in favor say I I any opposed okay we'll talk about it I'm coming back no that that's clear I just want to make sure I the first agenda item you had was about the landscape list did you want to see that final version back or was the motion to just allow us to make that change and bring it back to city council okay that's how I understood it too all right thank okay U moving on to staff reports reest okay petitions and requests from the public never that K St L Maryland Avenue I think this is absolutely beautiful but I do have a question if you don't mind okay the front page is talking about a native plant mitigation fee assessment and you did talk about an impact feed so that's what I'm asking about how are you going to assess These funds to be used on the backside uh you talk about an impact fee you get for every new house that's built or for every acre that's destroyed that's what I need Clarity on well that's what I don't have okay is the specifics I wanted to come up with the outline of how we were going to first acquire a resource that we didn't have okay and then use that resource to obtain the results that we want okay which is liid and Native plantings and so forth so the only way that we can acquire a mitigation fee I in my understanding is if it if it has to do with a concurrency issue and if we're increasing or causing an impact on a concurrency issue then we have a right to be able to charge a mitigation fee for that I'm not sure okay if this is the best approach it's just what I what I came up with right there may be another way that the city might want to provide the resource to be able to give back the incentive but you can't provide an incentive if you don't have a resource to give in the first place so I was trying to come up with what I thought were the justification necessary to create that resource using just simple concurrency issues but some of the values that I have that I consider valuable like what the habitat type is is it a a functioning Wetland well whether it's functioning or not it's a wetland it's important and and those things have more value to me than say a disturbed piece of land or a deric building that's going to be rebuilt so the impact fee the mitigation aspect of that I think would be a lot less and should have some value based on that natural Scenic value to to us as Citizens plus the storm water and the hydrological aspects that are all impacted by development well I I I think the backside you know what you're justifying is is wonderful but I I think maybe for next time maybe you should provide some clarity on how you would assess it I I mean unless you just want staff to do that assessment but it would seem that you would want to present your vision of how it could be assessed how this impact fee could be yeah but my my vision and Mr delgado's Vision may not be the same and the policy that the city has already established may not have any congruency and so it's best I think to work with the city as we develop this and to do that we need to get council's permission to give them some budgetary time okay well anyway so that was just my concern so thank you very much any ideas you have Kate please forward them along i' I'm I'd be happy to take any input on this thank you is there anybody else that wants to speak under petitions and request okay all right now we're moving on to staff reports I'll keep this brief um there's just four things I wanted to touch on with you guys um so I'll give an update on the status of the um Urban and Community forestry grant program um city council directed us to apply for an urban forestry Master planning Grant um so I have been in contact with Todd little who's with the Florida Forest Service I actually spoke with him today um he stated that uh this grant opportunity is undergoing review and has a potential to maybe open up in the next two months so when that Grant opens up I will be one of the first to know I've asked him to please reach out to me and let me know and that's available so it's coming it's just taking a little bit of time um also with the natural resources comp plan project that we have going on um I know we previously had spoken to you about um the consultant Inspire who we're working with on this project how they're going to be reaching out to you doing one-on-one interviews and how we're going to have a regular Tec meeting but then also a workshop following after so I know it was kind of proposed to be potentially April and May there's a little bit of a delay in the project there's been some change in staff with Inspire so this may be more towards the summertime that this will get the ball rolling so just keep it on your radar we'll be reaching out to you about that project um an update about the space view um in Veterans Memorial Park pedestrian Pier um it's anticipa to open in the end of April um so I've been speaking with um Sue our community redevelopment agency planner um and with public works on that so that's the anticipated date um and then also a brief update on the Indian River Avenue sewer project I spoke with Kevin cook with public works today um he said that the project is approximately 40% complete at this time with an estimated completion date of August 2024 so those are just some brief updates for you so if you have any questions let me know yeah go ahead I was just wondering how much of the plumbing of the city is being covered by this project where is this project going and how far in other words is it just sewage lines or is it water lines is it that's a sew sewer line only project right so is about 9,400 ft of a sewer line that was awarded by contract in December of 2021 okay so that's what portion of our I imagine it's the oldest lines that we have right yeah it's one of the older lines that we have so we're trying to slowly replace these so this one is located off of and correct me if I'm wrong on Indi and actually Mr Mr Young One know for sure in front of his house in univer Avenue all the way going north uh to go ahead to San Point Park and it's going to go Loop up or go east and then it's going to go through S Point Park as well up to South Street South Street no I've got that wrong so I have a qu can I have a question of course we have I can't see um what I I understand in in that when they're in front of my house digging a hole 10t deep that I can't get out of my driveway um that they broke some gas lines to people's houses and water lines to people's houses and uh they had to fix them and so you can see Fires at 9:00 at night because the gas Line's broken and they're trying to keep them controlled so uh there there's a pump house a sewage pump house on South Street and then there's one over here on this in this park over here they're trying to connect it to so they're going from a 6in pipe to a 12-in pipe I have pictures of all this um so they've had a lot of difficulties in trying to do this and I don't know what's all happening except that um uh they put signs up to keep people you know so they know about it but yet people knock them down and drive through the road anyway so I don't know why people won't stay off a road that's under construction uh but they don't um so uh so I know I so I'm really appreciative what they're doing because they're upgrading doing a wonderful job of redesigning upgrading the sump stations and the pipes it's just they've had a lot of difficulties with many different things and that's been slowing them down and I hope they over come that and um the contractor has been the problem not the city this is old technology by the way I remember this is very old technology at this point I remember when it first uh came out and so I was kind of curious because they don't really repair anything they kind of relign the pipes you know with uh a Rin which under Heat it's oh tell me putting a yeah oh in this in this section they're putting in oh so it's 9,000 ft of new pipe yeah I'm sorry now I've got the the information in front of me so there's a a interactive map that was published it's available online you can look at uh so it's 9,400 ft sewer line um and it starts from the South Street lift station going north and Avenue then it's going to cross uh Garden Street and keep going north and then go all the way to past Marina Park so it's a complete replacement that's already there's no more digging going on the only diing is by the way is that a new box that went in at same point for nean type environment when it happens nice and that's all already done they they finished that as a matter of fact today they had it open and we're looking inside to see what what's in there all right anything else anybody okay I'm going to adjourn the meeting then huh what are we doing future agenda oh we I thought we talked about that so we got the our um powers and duties on the next meeting and um Mike's uh Native plan mitigation plan is on the next meeting yeah I had one thing to add okay uh and this will require a vote I would like to move to amend our bylaws to remove section six petitions and requests from public present non-agenda items did you want to remove both of them or just one of them six uh and and return to the agenda that we ran for many many years because uh I mean I'll give my reasons if you want but this has to be put I heard from the city this has to be put on next meeting's agenda and in order to be put on the agenda there has to be a vote but I think our noble experiment is causing us to not get our work done uh and we should just go back to having public comment on regular old and new business anyone can talk and if anyone has any petition request that goes in number nine which will become number eight because everything will move up one that is what I am proposing we changed it to this a few years ago and I I don't feel it's allowing us to get work done properly by giving by giving petitions and requests up front yes suggesting just removing yes I think you know I think it's wonderful but I think we get way laid and we get into questions and answers and we take votes and motions and I feel that's out of order and uh I think that that should be taken out I you seconding I thought I second that motion um is there any discussion agenda right we're voting the mo the motion made by member ya and seconded by me was to put um the discussion about dropping the first petitions and requests from our from our um agenda that would be a change to the bylaws okay all those in favor say I I any opposed okay it's on the agenda thank you very much motion to adjourn yes yes okay done thank e