e good evening the this meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission of May 20 May 22nd 2024 will come to order U roll call please chairman Richardson here Vice chairman Aton here secretary Grant here member Childs here member Gad here member fa here member Moscoso here alternate member finer here alternate member Rogers here okay we do have a quorum next item is the Pledge of Allegiance stes we do have a quorum uh from time to time tonight you might notice I have a cough drop in my mouth I'm suffering from a severe sinus infection and and sometimes U I lose my voice but uh I'll try to keep it as much as possible before we go into approval of the minutes um I've been asked by miss Karen Black of the bar ver County School Board to introduce our new member planning of zoning hello okay you don't have to do anything now it's good yeah it's good sorry I'm Karen Black I'm the manager facilities playing with for our public schools and I'm happy to be here tonight to formerly introduce Miss Jacqueline mclin she is going to be our new school board representative to your board for the next two years she was uh sponsored by School Board member Megan Wright and unanimously approved at the uh May 14th school board meeting and I have met with her and started to um teach her in all things planning and in um development and school concurrency so she'll be here and available to answer any questions that you may have uh pertaining to schools okay welcome Miss mclen would you like to say anything I'm just here to answer question okay next item is the approval of the minutes of April 3D seems like forever since we met Miss moso yeah I would like to make a change um in it is listed that I am um secretary Moscoso instead of member Moscoso so if we could change that I don't want to take secretary Grant's position are you council person okay there's one change any other changes anyone care to make a motion anyone care to press the button I'll move to approve the minut as presented with the change I second okay any discussion member Gad oh I'm sorry all in favor say I I all oppose minutes are approved uh Chelsea will you go over the Quasi judicial confirmation procedures yes all persons who anticipate speaking on any public hearing item must must fill out an oath card to be heard on that agenda item and sign the oath contained thereon these cards are located on the table near the entrance to the council chamber or may be obtained from the recording secretary this meeting will be conducted in accordance to the procedures adopted in resolution number 24-1 1997 those speaking in favor of a request will be heard first those opposed will be heard second and those who wish to make a public comment on the item will speak third the applicant may make a brief rebuttal if necessary a representative from either side for or against May cross-examine a witness anyone who speaks is considered a witness if you have photographs sketches or documents that you desire for the commission to consider they must be submitted into evidence and will be retained by the city please submit such exhibits to the recording secretary thank you there is no consent agenda items is no o business before you start into item nine new business we have um a request that item 9 be and C be tabled Brad yes n uh items 9B and 9 C are two separate action items by the same applicant they have submitted to us a written request which is part of your agenda to table those two items to your June 19th regular meeting um so if you do table these we'll need an action on on each item any questions of the commission member Gad um Mr Parish I'm going to have some questions if this is continued regarding the accessibility to the site for these requests on the um matter involving the access on arterial roads or collector roads for the development site and it's not apparently on a collector arterial so the applicant I know has a transportation engineer that's Prov Ed report I'm interested in seeing how the city reacts to the proposal on the road that the access is taken from and in the same instance has do had any input to the request as it would eventually access Highway 50 and in some cases in the background it's something that the dot takes up after the uh Planning Commission planning zoning commission would review the matter in this instance being familiar with some of this I'm kind of concerned that I can get a report back from F do for the review regarding the access on that intersection where wind over way comes out based on the traffic analysis that was submitted and that's just to be heads up I appreciate if they can have some staff here to respond to my questions if I I would recommend that it based on the applicant's request to table us that all those questions be brought up during that public hearing um to I just would like staff to have somebody here that's in communic ation as opposed to the applicants agent representing the applicant I'd like to have someone staff here thank you anyone care to make a motion that we table this item M Charles I'll make a motion that we table items nineb and 9 C uh do we have a date in mind I guess oh we have to do it separately you think do we have to table them separately I would actually recommend that we first get consensus to rearrange the agenda okay is there consensus we discuss items B and C this point yes okay there is no your Mo and then individual uh decisions on each agenda item okay I I make the motion to table item 9B small scale comprehensive comprehensive plan Amendment SSA number 3-20 22 Bristol Titus will until our next meeting or I don't know is there a do we have a date the applicant requested to table this item to the June 19th 2024 pnz meeting till then okay second sorry is there any discussion member any discussion roll call vote member Gad yes Vice chairman Eton yes member Childs yes member moso yes secretary Grant yes member facon yes chairman Richardson yes so that item has been tabled and what about item C I make the motion that we table item 9 C comprehensive plan regular Amendment CPA number 2-202 24 Bristol tville transmitt uh until the June 19th meeting is there a second second okay any discussion roll call vote please secretary Grant yes member faon yes member Childs yes Vice chairman Eton yes member Gad yes member Moscoso yes chairman Richardson yes so those items will not be heard until the June 19th meeting and um but you're allowed any discussion under uh citizens to be heard at the end of the agenda next we'll go to item a which is many warehouses and RC zoning so nine uh item 9A which begins on page 10 of your packet is related to an ordinance to allow a mini warehouse uh in the regional commercial zoning District section 3437 of the city's code States city council and any a property owner or is duly authorized agent May request an amendment to any section requirement contained within these uh regulations amendments include changes additions deletions and shall be processed in a matter same manner as a resoning request any such proposal that affects the provisions of the comprehensive plan shall also be considered a comprehensive plan Amendment and be processed pursuant to this chapter uh Brad you're kind of mumbling would you speak up sure you can't so the applicant is asking through the city's code to uh change the code the way that's done with a private uh initiative or private request um is through a rezoning process so it's not an actual resoning of property but basically through this process they're asking to change the code regulations so this is not a city initiated ordinance this is a privately initiated ordinance the city received an application to amend the text of the city's regulations to allow many Warehouse in the regional commercial RC zoning District without the stipulation that the storage be located in an enclosed air conditioned building in addition the applicant is requesting to allow a mini warehouse development to exceed the maximum building coverage in the RC zoning district from 30% to 60% page 12 you see the app applicants application on page 17 was the applicant's initial request and proposal to how to change the code we took this information and turned it into an ordinance based on the current code and based on some discussions with the applicant as far as what their real intent is and our understanding of that intent and that's on page 29 of your packet so this is the proposed ordinance page 29 of your packet you'll see that it's they're proposing to change uh section 28- 214 mini warehouse at the city's code currently a mini warehouse is allowed as a limited use in the regional commercial zoning District you'll see that in a table there under with the letter L meaning a limited mean it's permitted with limitations so it does not require a conditional use permit you'll see the definition of midi Warehouse on the next page page 30 of your packet you'll see the standards for permitted use with limitations and it says here in the regional commercial zoning District many warehouses supposed to have access to each storage unit shall be from within an enclosed air conditioned building the applicant is suggesting the following change or from an exterior door internal to the site further down in those same conditions they're not make proposing to make changes to paragraphs b c and d but they are suggesting to add paragraph e which states that a maximum building coverage of 60% will be permitted just for this type of use in that zoning District on page 31 of your packet is the RC zoning development standards so you can see the footnote that they're ask adding on paragraph section 28- 315 paragraph C intensity and dimensional standards specifically for building coverage maximums percent of lot area and it says 30% is the maximum but they put a footnote in there number four and if you go to the bottom of that same page page 31 you'll see that footnote in States except as otherwise provided in section 28 214 many warehouses that is referring to that increasing that building coverage from 30% to 60% on page 26 the applicant did provide you know in addition to their application on page 21 through 24 some data related to properties that are uh in the city uh I'll I'll leave to the applicant to describe that that information they also included a map that's on page 25 and I'll leave it to the applicant to describe that for purpose of our presentation for purposes of our presentation I'm just going to describe our staff report and our recommendation on pages 26 through 28 so in the background on page 26 of your packet which is the first page of our staff report uh we stated that the industrial uses are typically low located away from residential areas and more than likely will not be in commercial areas that was our our take on this in 2014 the city attempted to prevent the encroachment of industrial uses in commercial areas with the adoption of comprehensive plan future land use policy 1.9.9 G which specifically prohibited light Industrial Services in warehousing M1 zoning districts in the commercial high-intensity land use prior to 2015 mini warehouse mini warehouse was only permitted in an industrially zoned property that's M1 M2 M3 they were not allowed in commercial zoning districts that year the city received a separate request to allow many Warehouse in a commercial zoning District the first time we received that request it was for to put it allow them in a commercial Community commercial zoning District that's the CC zoning District the staff objected to that we didn't support that so then the applicant suggested maybe putting it into a regional commercial zoning District the staff based on their request and what city council um agreed to was to propose a limit limited type of use so we it'll allow what we did was we proposed the city council in which they ultimately adopted uh a mini warehouse as only inside an enclosed building and an air conditioned building as you um most of you are probably familiar with how many warehouses typically or the rollup doors and they open from the outside uh a lot of uh many warehouses are now these in indoor buildings and they have one main building you go inside and you and everything's air conditioned th that was one of the stipulations that we proposed in that ordinance uh several years ago with additional criteria which I've already described and when are currently and that we're adopted and put in the code we currently have one property in the city that utilized this limitation limited use and that is off of Cheney Highway uh they converted an old Kmart building into an indoor air conditioned building mini warehouse in the RC zoning District bring you to page two uh 27 of your packet that's page two of our staff report paragraph there it says the intent of the restrictions let just read here was to protect the Aesthetics of major entryways into the City and protect budding residential neighborhoods while more F fully utilizing larger Regional commercial sites such as big box stores the regional commercial zoning district is primarily has a minimum 2 acre requirement and it's uh primarily U for big box or large retail commercial uses uh we further stated that commercials districts are intended to serve the needs of the city with retail restaurants and various commercial uses they are typically located at commercial quarters and adjacent to residential areas currently one enclosed air conditioned mini warehouse exists on Cheney Highway in the RC zoning District many warehouses as they're traditionally known with the rollup doors that are open to the outside and are not air conditioned buildings currently require conditional conditional use permit in the M1 and the M2 zoning districts in 2023 ordinance 49- 2023 amended the code to require a conditional use permit in the highway industrial infill M3 zoning District the downtown mixed use District Midtown subdistrict and the regional mixed use industrial park rmu 500 districts if located within 500 feet of residential uses or zoning there are no limitations for an enclosed air conditioned building the industrial zoning District so they could in those industrial zoning districts put an enclosed air conditioned Building without having to go through additional limitations we further stated at the city's comprehensive plan future land use policy 1.8.1 states sites for Industrial Development shall be located with convenient access to the major transportation corridors and should have access to air water or rail Transportation facilities the major transportation cors include such roadways as I95 US1 state roads 405 and 407 major air facilities are located at the Space Coast Regional Airport it should be noted that the Cheney Highway is not included in the comprehensive plan with an industrial policy although there is currently two there are currently two industrial zon districts located along this important entryway into the city the proposed change of the limitations to permit many warehouses which are not within an enclosed air conditioned building with one common entrance to all units may be considered as a change to the commercial and residential nature of Cheney Highway quarter The Cheney Highway quarter and the intent and purpose of the RC zoning District we are concerned with the gradual change of the RC zoning District into an industrial district concerns Center on the use of the RC zoning district for industrial uses such as manyi Warehouse constructed in the traditional layout of individual buildings with separate entrances garage doors to each unit rather than units being located with a single enclosed air condition building issues raised by the request include Visual and noise impacts to neighboring residential commercial uses resulting in a change the character of the area should Council wish to consider the proposed change staff recommends that limitations or conditions be established that will address these issues we have not proposed any spe specific uh limitations if counil uh goes done does uh support this request on page 28 of your packet you'll see a comparison of the existing zoning districts of where these uses are allowed and what the applicant is specifically proposing another thing I just want to bring up real quick is that we also see that um the commercial quarter and the commercial zoning districts are primarily to allow for uses that serve the city directly with retail uses and so there's a lot of activity that happens along there when you put a mini warehouse on a piece of property that is tended to be commercial especially on a major quarter which our code in our comp plan is traditionally looked at as an industrial use it becomes more of a dead use use basically it's not an active use and those kind of uses are typically relegated to certain areas that are primarily according to the city's company's plan and the code as in those industrial areas so that's the last point I wanted to make I'll try and answer any questions you have about this and the applicant also is here to answer pres make a presentation and to answer any questions um Brad I have a question for you do you see this as happening a lot in Bard County uh recently uh Channel 6 News had a story on it that city of Palm Bay was proposing a moratorium on these storage units and car washes uh to make sure they're not in retail commercial areas is this a growing Twi Trend in other cities I have not looked at other cities to see what trends are going on there but I I am familiar with what was going on over in pal Bay we did reach out to Palm Bay and we were told that their Planning and Zoning commission I guess considered that type of motorum when it got to city council they pulled it from the agenda so they didn't even consider or even discuss it and my understanding from after that is that there's uh there are no plans to bring it back for discussion member ch um on on the standards for permitted uses with limitations where it says um you're adding the uh the language on a where it says access to each storage unit shall be from within an enclosed air conditioned building or from an exterior door internal to the site I'm was trying to imagine this and I'm having a hard time understanding what that actually means for some reason I don't know why I'm having a problem with it but so an exterior door of the building or internal to so an exterior door that's inside of another building is that what it's saying I don't know I guess I'm not understanding that part that language I I think the applicant could probably better describe that well I mean it's in the fits in the ordinance though yeah um okay well I I'll listen to them later member Grant um Mr Parish on page 27 line 23 you mentioned that there's currently two industrial zonings on in uh on State Road 50 could you enlighten me on what they are where they are because I I I can't seem to look at themart Kart I don't know what the other one yeah what's the other one I believe one of them is a pass it it's an office of some sort industrial yeah so offices are allowed so like contractors be allowed in that zoning District all right okay um if you give me a moment I'll see if I can find more information is add on that opposite side of how 50 like across from the former Parish health and fitness center I believe that would be one on the south side of Cheney if you give me a moment I can give you more specific information though well you're looking that at member grod U how well I'll let Brad finish looking that up because I have a question for him I guess my question was really why are there any Industrial on50 in the first place I don't have an answer as to how those got there other than there was an ordinance that was used in order to put them there um but that is some in okay so there's one off of uh it's 2459 Cheney it's on the south side of Cheney it's um across the street from zultan which is a intersection health and fitness exactly what I was saying yes you're correct I'm sorry yes it's just Southwest of of the parish health and fitness okay um you've got it open oh right uh so it looks like the one on outside side is uh warehousing distribution and Trucking terminal is how the property owner property appraiser has assessed it looks like according to the picture from the property appraiser that there are rollup doors so it maybe um manyi warehouses with offices there again I don't know much about that particular property I'd have to come back to you with more specific information sure member Grant I'm finished okay member Rogers um Brad uh the uh would this be a sort of a one-time um exception on this particular property or um do you think that this kind of is the camel's nose Under the Tent and creates a precedent that would then spread to other uh zonings of this type this a change like this into this particular zoning district will affect property that has this zoning right and the second question was um I was a little shocked to hear that maybe I don't quite understand this but that there was a 30% um can you tell me about the 30% the 60% certainly seems kind of bold to double uh the percentage but is it is the 30% simply that that of the entire property only 30% can be actually covered by the footprint of the building is that what that is that's correct um so a move uh to double uh the request is is that somewhat unprecedented I couldn't find a basis for it so that again I think the applicant probably could better describe that but it would what they're proposing is that it would be very specific to this particular use within this zoning District okay I do have an answer more about the other two properties they were both they've been industrial since before the Citywide uh resoning in 1993 so it looks like the one that I mentioned to you was built uh prior to that year prior to the city's Citywide resoning um keep tell me the year maybe the there is another one further west which is near the I95 interchange and it's got a Pet Boys Pro U use on it so it looks like a car manufa or um repair or manufacturing which is another use that would be typically found in an industrial zoning District for yeah inber Gad thank you um Mr Parish with the comment earlier from the other member regarding the 30% building coverage um and your opening comments about Regional commercials supporting big box development um the summation I get is the 30% is yielding a less intense compatibility relationship because there is going to be a potential residential relationship to the property sites which are either community commercial or Regional commercial and when you see the big box in the same instance 30% a lot of the big box areas are covered with grade parking because of the nature of the square foot ratio to parking ratio so you leave yourself with large development sites with buildings that look compatible to the large acreage it takes to support the parking Arrangement made for that building economy of scale so as to speak and in the application the applicant wants to to do two things one deviate from the Restriction that is also appears to me to be a compatibility issue having an enclosed building with a Central Access Point rather than multiple doors being used by multiple tenants all at once visible perhaps by geometry to the site to residential communities and at the same instance increase the percentage to the building coverage both of which look to me to be more essentially trying to rid the Restriction that's based on compatibility as opposed to some other ratio why why would 30% be there at all why wouldn't it be 50% something that's more typical to that ratio uh floor area ratio as well U so in in my question to the staff and your recommendation on this not approving it is it really the central part of this is the compatibility subject matter yes so there's to further answer your question the various commercial zoning districts you have um the regional commercial underneath that a more less rather a less intense commercial called Community commercial below that tourist below that neighborhood commercial and and then there's Office Professional the Office Professional and neighborhood and Commercial zoning districts which are to allow they allow uh smaller type retail and office uses and allow them on properties that are much smaller uh actually have a more restrictive building lot coverage of 25% so I think to answer your question that might be the intent is about compatibility of scale and to follow that up um so if you envision the big box in my mind's eye I'm looking at Home Depot and I'm looking at a building if I assumed Home Depot or perhaps law Lowe's is a big box met those standards of 30% building coverage and the external development which is to the building the parking lot is the Sea of a with this proposal you could take the building that you see is Home Depot double the size of it you wouldn't need the parking because many warehouses by their nature don't require the parking commercial retail does but you'd have this very intense building that would be adjacent and incompatible in most instances to residential communities and disproportionate to even what commercial development would have as I mentioned 50% building coverage and if in my mind's eye again I see a development site 5 acres and 3.7 acres is a building that to me does not seem compatible and certainly the current code supports that preserving compatibility where this proposal would be in my opinion very incompatible and that is why I asked the questions regarding the 30 50% and and seeing of sight that wouldn't need parking at the level you see with a Home Depot or Low's is a big box but conversely you would have a really big box on a disproportionately 40% site um in remainder whatever that would be retention and parking and the other subordinate thank you member moso yeah I'd like to um piggyback a little bit off of what you were saying and it being compatible with single family um zoning as I look at the chart you guys provided which I appreciate that um I did not is one property did stick out to me and since we're changing this in the ordinance it would change for all the different properties um it's one off a Garden Street um I think it's the Gregory Nelson and I think Mr Honeycut also represents that property as well um a little bit of history on that I wasn't on the pnz when that got approved but I think it actually got denied first and then they came back and they switched it from um and someone might correct me but it was single family and they switched it to Regional commercial and so it fits all of the qualifications for these U if the ordinance is changed for this many warehouse and it does um it is adjacent to a single family um subdivision and so my question would be let's say this does get passed through and we have the single family um neighborhood right next to it would there need to be a conditional use permit or what would help protect the single family neighbor or neighborhood with um having a storage unit right next to them and I'm I'm kind of just I look through all these different properties and that one really stuck out to me because it was recently rezoned to um RC zoning so is your question what limitations would we want to introduce so say we do add that into our ordinance with the single family NE and let's look at that property specifically it's right next to a single family um neighborhood what um would there be extra buffers or would they need to have a cup in order to have that or it would just automatically be put in I mean you would have to if you if that's the route we want to go uh you would have I would recommend that you would come up with certain limitations that you think are appropriate in order to allow Council to be able to accept this and to help control any impacts this use might have against adjacent to any residential um you know this is not to say that there are examples in the city where there is a mini warehouse next to resid and they may have been approved prior to the current comprehensive plan policies or even the current zoning and they might have been granted or I'm not sure I don't have answers for those but I know what the city's conference plan in the code says that we try to relegate these in industrial areas now so when you ask when someone's asking for a new one to be approved these are the criteria and policies you want to try and and impose basically as far as controlling those issues because I feel like we had a discussion about about many warehouses and I'm not sure what that zoning was but we required a cup and so I'm just um trying to figure out how this would work in r RC zoning well in the M1 zoning District right now I believe even just recently we proposed processed a um conditional use permit for to allow a mini warehouse in M1 zoning which is is a light industrial zoning district and that was a traditional style mini warehouse um so this is going to be expanded inside the RC zoning District I would recommend requiring the same process with some additional limitations um if it's going to be expanded in the commercial zoning District that a traditional style mini warehouse thank you um any other items for discussion okay before we open the public hearing um I think member Aon and vice chairman Aon and member fa will be the only people on the commission to remember this but before it was uh Kmart it was The Cook's department store and they both uh with the dissolution of Kmart that place stayed vacant for a number of years and when they Secure Storage came up as with a lot of improvements to the landscape and the parking lot they they almost they promised the community it would be individual Parcels in front retail parcels and they drun a flatbed truck up and uh mayor diesel was there promising everybody that would be the location of a Chick-fil-A which I haven't seen so far and secondly that other piece of um industrial that's across from uh the former Paris health and fitness center was before it was those many warehouses it was the Moon Drive-In theater which showed a lot of x-rated movies and the neighborhood would rather have many warehouses there than what they had there sh yes it was okay we'll open the public hearing and we'll ask the applicant to come up and speak thanks I need to I work lot I have some hand for you thank you they don't have to vote tonight but they're alternates we have all this in the packet with the law firm of lacy Lion renka in rockage Florida I'm here on behalf of the applicant which is um Insight Property Group did you and we do have a PowerPoint for you but first I do want to talk a little bit about the staff report and some of the comments we've heard um the first thing I did hand you is something I found off the internet and it's from a Investment Company and uh frankly the question of whether Self Storage is commercial or industrial has come up and in my experience especially dealing in other cities in Bard County it's considered a commercial use in fact in Bard County is a bu and general retail use now they do have conditions just like your code does so I think to claim that all mini warehouses industrial is a misnomer I don't believe that's true anymore they've come a long way some of them look like apartment buildings some of them look like retail shops some are one story so the newer ones are much nicer than the older ones the newer ones are commercial versus Industrial in my opinion um here with me is um Elias slby with Insight Property Group and Rodney Honeycut the engineer of record Mr slby was with has been with Insight Property Group for a long time he was um the one that purchased the Kmart and turned it into the storage facility secure space that's there now um he says he didn't promise a Chick-fil-A they did wine and dine that but just get couldn't get them to come so just to clarify I know I I've been working up here about 15 years and I've heard about Chick-fil-A being requested all the time so um regarding the staff report and the recommendation of den we did come up and talk with Mr parish and Mr Parish was not in favor of this proposal from the very beginning so there wasn't any give and take there wasn't any suggestion of making this a conditional use of putting additional conditions we submitted it they reviewed it recommended denial and here we are today uh but we do have a PowerPoint to explain the need for the requested change show what this external door looks like show why this is being requested and it's there's it's already there it's already next to residential there's been no complaints for I don't know four five years six years so this is to add on to it to clean up that in my opinion an ugly ugly looking unused vacant parking lot that was in front of Kmart so so that's um that's why we're trying to get the the change here uh again we do not believe I do not believe that this is an industrial use this is not asking for an industrial use to be encroaching in commercial use Regional commercial allows this type of use it's not an industrial use it's a regional commercial use with conditions as you see on that awkward document I gave you which has 28214 mini warehouse that's the existing ordinance with the red is what we're requesting the change standards for permitted uses with limitations this allegedly was adopted in 2015 I say that because I wasn't here and I don't know but Mr Parish has said that so I believe that they could have done anything they could have added architectural standards we're fine if you want to add more conditions and if you want to make this a conditional use if that's what's going to allow them to expand to use more of their property currently they only use 21 22% of their property it's a very large piece of property they have tried as we'll show you and discuss they have tried to Market it since 2019 and if they do sell it there's only a very small piece of property that can be used because that 30% coverage limitation so there's not much that can be done on that front space and no one has been interested since 2019 in purchasing it um regarding the lock coverage um I I agree that some of that is because of the parking the 30% is to limit usually limit what can be there because of the parking needs such as a cooks or a Kmart so the 30% other than that doesn't have any real basis industrial has no lock coverage yet you're allowing many warehouses in commercial but you have a loot coverage so it seems inconsistent and arbitrary that's why we're only proposing to change it to to 60% um and actually as you'll see we do have a a site plan and we can go down to 50% if that's more palatable and it's something you all believe is a good a good thing to do um this is not going to change the character of the regional commercial or this area the storage is already there and this is going to be going towards Cheney Highway and away from residential and um towards the commercial Road this um the there's an issue of visual and noise or issues if this is allowed to be changed I don't quite understand that because this is an expansion onto Cheney Road and as you'll see from the map um all of these other RC that could possibly use this ordinance are on the outsides of town um and that's generally where you have your your uh industrial and your many warehouses um if there are noise issues that's a Code Enforcement issue a performance issue and if you do have a visual concern we can add conditions into this or make it a conditional use um regard ing the list that I've provided to you this is in your packet uh we went through with the help of City staff and mapped every Regional commercial property in the city there are 73 of them one of which is this particular property which is number 23 the acreage that's highlighted that's how many are over two acres which you have to have to have a mini warehouse in Regional commercial and that is uh 30 seven however only nine of them are vacant so truly only nine including us which so eight others could possibly be um make use of this revised ordinance and as the map as you see um all of the little squares with the numbers those are all of the properties that relate to that list that are over two acres that could possibly have a mini warehouse the um one that's on looks like it's on on US1 number 46 in the middle of the page that's already developed site and there is one mistake on the bottom um where there's no number that's actually 67 that's on Willow Creek Boulevard and Gren Parkway and it's 14 acres and again it's at the at the end of town and it's vacant so this was just to show you I mean this is a request that could impact other Regional commercials but it's not going to impact the town in a negative perspective from from the review of the regional commercials that are there this as from the map that will not impact the Aesthetics of any major entrance way into the city uh and the only aesthetic condition that's even in the city ordinance is that's in an enclosed building that's the only aesthetic at all that was put in this in 2015 so we're going to show you through the PowerPoint why we're asking for this change um you obviously no obligation to approve it this is a discretionary request to you and to city council and it's a decision that you'll make based upon whether you think this should be allowed to allow this particular property to expand and potentially others um or if you prefer the vacant Kmart parking lot because it's likely not going to be developed uh this change will not do any harm to the city but will allow a better visual appearance for this particular site and this does serve residential neighbors so it does comport with what the staff was staying even though they seem to say it didn't so starting with the PowerPoint this is the existing site that's the old Kmart that's secure space um you have the bowling alley to the right and then to the south of that would be wacovia um this is uh about Insight Property Group they are Coast to Coast they've been in business for over 70 years sorry over 30 years and they have 61 sites nationally they are an integrated company they build they manage they rent they keep it all together um in the one company in site Property Group um Mr salbe and um Nick Kent they are the ones that are currently working on the site these are the site conditions before Redevelopment before it was redeveloped in 2019 again vacant Kmart previously Cooks has that large parking lot in front and that's what it looks like today uh we've talked to people they think it's a nice appearance they think they did a good job they've been good neighbors and currently it's 98% of capacity after only a few years of being in business they are state-of-the-art they have security they have keypads these are a couple of the other ones that they have done um they have rollup doors the rollup doors are quiet these are actually internal doors and if you have any questions about any of this Mr SBE can talk about it again this has been quickly leased up they are full occupancy uh they did it much quicker than normal because this is a new site it's conveniently located again it's an underutilized site looking at it you have only about maybe you have a 21% building coverage currently and it's mostly the last the the mo the northern portion of the property uh the market demand that's why they're here their Market is demanding more more units um and the market is demanding that they have some internal role up doors so people can bring their station wagon or the van take things out of their garage and move them right into it so that's why and you'll see what we mean by external doors internal to the site so um the market demand and this shows the um what you know what they've proposed in the past on uh to to Realtors and to people that are interested in potentially purchasing the site unfortunately they've not had any success in marketing this at all um if you can see on the bottom uh Insight conducted an exhaustive Nationwide marketing program engaging two local Titusville commercial brok brokers including Holly Carver and marketing the property to Nationwide tenants via coar Loop and it aggregated more than 50 property listing websites and they were not able to sell the property also again because they already have 22% loot coverage they only get another 8% so again there's not a whole lot that can be done with that extra 8% again they have a strong market demand they're turning away 40 customers a month so this is the proposed design um again we talked to others in the community and we had some mural design but this is what we were determined because it looks like an office space um facing Cheney with enhanced Landscaping pavers things to make it look like a nice office building so that's the intent this is the proposed site plan I know it's difficult to see um to the left of the screen is the existing building to the right is what they proposed to do that middle building is building five that will be internal and will be air conditioned and accessed internally uh you have the four buildings on the outside those are all facing the main building building five and those where the rollup doors will be and they're quiet rollup doors so people can drive in through those side areas that are open drive right up to the units unload their car and then come back out and that will be a secure site we'll be keep paded in so we also had someone say well well people will be sleeping in there well no it's going to be secure people aren't going to be able to do that and um they're proposing to close it at 7:00 p.m. at night but again if that's a conditional use issue that or a condition that should be in in this ordinance um operation hours that's something that we are certainly happy to consider when we put in the application we didn't have this proposed site plan the lot coverage is only about 44% so at this time I would like to amend the 60% coverage to a 50% coverage to reduce that um maximum that we could do if you're inclined to uh support this ordinance so that would be a lot coverage of 50 instead of 60 and it's based upon this design so again this is existing on the top to proposed on the bottom and that's um looking from the from the southeast looking uh West and this is coming from the uh West driving east um and with that um Mr Le is going to talk about some of their other project and give you a little bit more insight into their company and um why they are here today and then I'll conclude very briefly and then we can answer any questions you may have uh good evening everyone uh my name is Elias SL as Kim introduced us uh I work for insight Property Group I handle the East Coast from New York all the way down to Florida uh we currently have a project in Miami that we're we're constructing this project in particular the reason why we're here tonight because we feel as Kim mentioned that this use is more closer to commercial than industrial most of our our customers are residential based we usually most when we look at a property or an asset we look at the three mile radius that's what we focus on for the most part for demographics and the second highest use that we usually get in our uh assets are small businesses so especially since the the co a lot of people shed some of their offices some of their extension and they started using uh Self Storage as a supplement um this property for instance is is in Manhattan on Upper East Side that was built uh right it's a zero lock building right adjacent to a school um like private school and behind us again we didn't put too many pictures here but just to tell you how we feel that our asset or our product fits in the market in the very residential market and there is a tower of 38 story with like several hundred Apartments uh the next one this was an industrial area that on a highway that we built it was a shopping center Home Depot bought the shopping center they res zoned it we end up getting this slot uh the reason why they liked our use because as a self storage uh we don't require parking we we don't impact roads uh it generates taxes uh and we don't impact schools so that it has very minimum impact on the community and uh and this one another one in College Point Queens very dense uh Queens Market in New York City as well 180,000 Square fet we built a two level there is such a high demand that two of these assets that I showed so far we go to sellers below grade because over there we don't have the luxury of the land like we have here and as Kim mentioned is the most demanded type of product is the product that has access from the outside because it gives people the the easiness to act get in and get out it's like the model I used to work for retail for 10 years and we we a lot of people went moved away from malls to shopping center and that's one of the reason you want to get in and get out you don't want to get stuck for like 20 minutes getting in taking the elevator going up so that that's why this model is very successful uh this is in Livingston New Jersey upscale town uh we built this with the community behind this building we have like a RV station it's within a year it's 85% filled and the the the the store also is doing great so everywhere we go as Kim mentioned I'm sorry I keep referencing you is like we design inh house we have a Design Group in housee we manage our assets we have a construction company that we build and we maintain it so we're not here to build it and flip it we like our asset that's why this is a very successful store and we with your permission and support hopefully we can get this to the and we can work with the conditions if there's a concern on lot coverage or you know other aspect thank you so um just in conclusion to sum up and I appreciate your time and consider ation of this because again this is something we're asking there's nothing you have to do but this is um this is not a site plan request but that's what the site plan is intended to look like that's what they want to build and you've heard the reasons why they want to build it Rodney Honeycut can answer any questions about site plan this will improve they will have to upgrade the storm water which and treat the water which hasn't been done with much success because this was originally built in 1959 and we ask that you consider the reasons for the code um and look at the common sense analysis of 30% coverage really doesn't doesn't suffice for this property because of there's so much vacant area there and also uh if a 50% loot coverage they'd be able to do what they' wanted to do they don't need the parking it's a commercial use not an industrial use so with that we're happy to answer questions happy to entertain entertain any changes uh so we'd ask you consider approval Charles so the exterior door internal to the site is the doors for the cars that go in or is it what's the I still see that bottom the bottom the bottom building goes left to right yeah that's on the West Side the doors are T facing internal to the site so it's an external building oh you're talking about the doors to the storage units the roll they're outside really storage units external yes they're external doors on that building that face internal to the site but those but those bu so are are you saying that those buildings would be air conditioned though still but they would still have exterior doors no they're they're just single units they're they'll be they'll you know 10 x 20 20 ft deep with a rollup door so those will not be air conditioned the big building in the middle building five would be air conditioned okay but the rollup doors will not be external to the site yeah I mean just um for everyone's information my wife and I do have a storage unit there at the place and um I I do like it it's very nice and um I've always thought that that big parking lot is a waste of space um I like how the storage you you know the building looks I I like how it looks I like how it is inside it's easy it's nice and clean and um I've thought that we should have something up there um but uh and as far as you know I I owned a Christmas shop here in town and we had to close it because retail is dying and uh it's mostly online so I I can understand how it's hard to get retail space um sold in in the area so uh and I've talked to a lot of other people who own retail spaces and it's tough for them too and some of them are thinking about moving somewhere else or just going online and so I know that's tough so I can I can definitely understand having a problem finding a buyer for for a space out there because it's it's a dying area but thanks member facon um so you had made a statement that putting something there wouldn't necessarily change the Aesthetics and the first thing that I noticed through one of your photos there is that it won't look the same and not looking the same is a change in my opinion so there would be a change to the Aesthetics um such as that the next question that I have is that the language as written states that um doors will be internal to site now if this was to go forward right and the next person that wanted to build a mini storage with external doors um just putting a door on the building is external to site at as it's written because there's no Clarity in it there's no clarification so if I were to build a mini storage in the next RC Development Area I could put a door and it will be external to site because that's that's that's how I read it all right okay so um so I have a problem with with the language there in Reading external excuse me internal internal to site because as it stands right now Mini Storage on supposed to have one entrance internal and storage units are going to be into the building so if I read that there and I was go to any other RC place I would say hey I could have rollup doors um so I I I don't like the language there um that site uh I I understand that that's that's that that's a large parcel of just empty space um and something needs to be there and I was really liking looking for to something else other than additional storage I get it we need it it's a great business business model it's a fantastic business model and it's generating a lot of Revenue and so for that I mean that's that's awesome I'd want to put one there too but unfortunately um I I don't know the language is written I I I don't like the way the language is written I'd have to look at that some more and as well as going back to again as written now 60% and even even if we were to go back and say okay well let's let's go at 50% I think 50% is a good number um again when I look at the next location of RC right the next person that goes to build one I don't know um um um and when we look at now amending the language of what a um Storage Unit A Min storage unit is and and I get that you believe that this is RC right and that's that's our feelings but unfortunately the language to amend it to say that it's it's it's it's um industrial use it's it's the industrial use no matter how much we feel that we think it's RC and no matter how no no matter how nice the buildings look it's still an industrial use item and so until the language gets amended to read otherwise it it is what it is I I don't know how you guys feel about that's that's how I feel about it what language are you referencing that says many warehouses is an industrial use so so here we have so the city of tville has gone ahead and defined what a many Warehouse is and its uses right in here and so one of the things that you that we're looking to do for example um access to let's just use the first bullet for example paragraph a it says access to each stor unit shall be from within and an enclosed air conditioned building all right so we're looking to amend that to State my glass excuse me or from an exterior door internal to the site right from an exterior door internal to the site so so for me um my site is the perimeter of the site right and an exterior door is a door that's on it so every exterior door to me is internal to the site the way that I read that every external door is interior to the site am am I do y'all get what I'm saying so if you if if you put a fence around this building and you put a door on this building every door is still internal to the site does it make sense to you cuz it makes sense to me because again we're talking about the language as written and and as it reads it can be ambiguous I I understand internal to the site should be facing internal to the site oh however we want to State it right but just but just when I but when I read this right it looks like kind of a it again I look again for the future okay and someone else that goes to build not your site but the next RC site and the language that we that we leave here today either permits or denies the next person this opportunity and so I think the city titles did a great job when they put many storage units that are allowed in RC to only be internal units and so I agree with that um um I don't think that we should allow um that language is written the proposed language inside our RC inside our RC in this city whatever somebody's do somebody else great for them but I I live here in the great wonderful city of Titusville and again I don't understand you you said that it's an industrial use by definition I don't I I didn't know where you were getting that so so what I'm saying is that currently right now right external Doors door you I get that but you had said it's an industrial use and I'm you said by definition and I didn't know where you were getting that so earlier you said to you you you said your opinion you said my opinion storage units are re uh RC commercial right and I I tend to disagree I say that they're industrial so we just disagree on that I thought you said there was a definition in the code I had Miss oh no no no no I got there I'm I'm just I'm just using our feelings on the topic that's all and by Aesthetics I mean better looking so I I misspoke but to me that looks better than a a vacant lot so I I I do want to clarify that no no I know what you me but what but my but my whole point is is again I I liked the original photo that you put up there that showed potential other other um so did my client but it didn't happen so anyways I apologize guys thank you sir thank you member Gad thank you Mr I have several questions I'll start with staff for the first part of my question um the discussion by the applicant is that there's not a lot of property available currently to promote development of this type of use only a few Parcels are available the city has recently done some annexations along U um South Street 405 I guess it is um and so in terms of expanding the city limits and including new properties uh would it be fair to say there is available land that could be developed through the annexation process in which land use and Zoning that would be compatible with this type of use proposed by the applicant or existing as the example given the quote Cooks it was 1969 by the way for the record I helped build the building I just kind of found that curious I was alive then um well looking at myself in the mirror up there I don't think that's necessarily true the um point I'm having is that the city will grow annexation is potential there is available industrial land uses that are in the unincorporated County that are capable of being annexed if not surely will be annexed because the urban standards for that development is water and sewer in the city is going to require you to Annex if you're going to get those services so using the logic that you don't have a lot of available property to provide a service that's in high demand is represented by uh occupancy and quickly occupied um and furthermore to expand uh that being said there is quite likely uh exactly that available but you'd have to go through a process different than this one um second question um and I'll let you answer them each after I'm done the second question I have for S is um is it fair to say that this uh Warehouse U that was redeveloped from the cooks became uh Kmart site is compa is consistent with the current standard of 30% building coverage and the external door entrance and condition floor area that building represents Conformity with those standards the the history you said about how it came about from zoning text amendments Land Development code amendments um those are the two questions for stff so to answer to first part of your question uh I heard from the applicant that there aren't enough properties there are very few properties that are zoned to RC that are available to utilize this new ordinance not that there are not enough properties in general available to build mini warehouse that's what I heard um the other part to answer your other part of your question about annexations yeah there's definitely a lot of opportunities for annexing surrounding properties of the city that could be utilized for a variety of uses including commercial or industrial or uh many warehouses um this property um that's in question here um off the Cheney Highway is the only one that we have that utilized the ordinance that was adopted in 2015 so it had an existing building and they converted the existing building into an indoor enclosed air condition building consistent with the conditions that were adopted without ordinance in 2015 um as far as whether it meets all the other criteria i' I'd have to look at the see to site plan how all that was done but in order to allow that use would have had to meet the criteria that was there in in place and that's that's a fair conclusion I would conclude the same um in terms of my point wasn't the RC this is a zoning text Amendment so first and foremost it it's my opinion that when you do a zoning text Amendment it's not focused on a property it's not focused on a promisory note of this picture or that PowerPoint all due respect it's any where in the city or future land that becomes annexed into the city so what you do today is undone unless you amend that text again and all the pictures and all the conditional use potentials and all that sunry additional language to support your building on your lot on that site for your economic reasons are only for that site and this is for everywhere in the city so I have a real difficulty seeing the presentation and feeling warm and comfortable about the development of future sites through existing zoning or the expansion of the city limits through annexations that occur when you only have a simple rule proposed 60% building coverage and open doors um the next questions go to the applicant and if you could help me understand you showed in your PowerPoint a photographic representation from aerial view of buildings the chairman mentioned that there was one day a thought we would have a a Chick-fil-A I don't think you have to have that yet but that's another question the um picture you showed showed this out parcel development potential you showed another picture an illustration an aerial view where you showed what you believe you would propose following and to be consistent with your text Amendment these buildings would be shaped or facing this direction and they would be aesthetically pleasing and all that only if you had the expansion of the 60% you can't do that with the remaining you said you had 21% building coverage and that would leave you with about 9% or was it 22% that's 22% currently and the site plan is shown says 44% I was going to put it back up but it hasn't been engineered so that's why they were comfortable 50% when we asked for the 60% it hadn't even been completely drawn yet I don't think that was my question my question goes back to your presentation in the presentation you showed a rendering of what that site would have looked like as you Market it for out parcel development but you had no takers correct that was the summary of what I got correct and that wasn't engineered either those were just I'm good with that that's what renderings are for it's to show a conceptual plan so the point being if that would be consistent with the site conforming to the current standard the 30% that remaining 7% yields you a development potential on those outparcel sites and you showed the rendering of that that right that that was just that that wasn't scale you could only put I think a 16,000 foot building with the you could put some building in that 7% remainder correct yes someone would buy it yes and so when someone and that's another part question I appreciate this the buy and sell thing but then again the market equilibrium you're looking for apparently wasn't achieved if I don't want to sound factious whatsoever but if you were giving the land away I am sure there would be a 16,000 foot building on an out parcel in front of your Ware house because no one would give land away there has to be some degree of balance to that and that's what this market equilibrium concept was for it apparently isn't there today it could be there someday it may be there someday but the change the zoning text because the market equilibrium yesterday or last month or a year ago or 2019 hasn't been found seems kind of a rash way of doing it to change the entire City's Matrix for development because that site didn't find a market equilibrium point doesn't doesn't fly too well with me in my experience so I I think what uh I saw you present would be uh a last question for the staff is plan development um a Zony District that could be provided for uh that would promote this use that is possible that could be a with a plan development zoning District where your artist renderings and agreements and cons sense and Architectural restrictions and pretty pictures could be implemented based on their agreement to develop the land according to that plan development District so these pictures could be implemented as that's what it'll look like just the way they presented it through a plan development zoning District as opposed to a straight zoning District where the only criteria is 60% building coverage and opening the doors to the outside that is a possible option and and that is really critical to what I think the applicant's presentation and I I say that's very respectfully it all sounds so good for the presentation of your site it all sounds so bad applied overall to all sites where there's very little restrictions it would certainly then seem to me that if you wanted to negotiate a development where the city's happy with the way the building looks today and it's highly occupied it's OB I think it's a lovely building it's a lot better than Cooks look by far um I was on the floor doing chalk lines at point but uh the um the point would be did you consider approaching staff to seek a different zoning District consistent with a comprehensive plan where your presentation could become the record and that is what would be built as opposed to just two limiting factors 60% building and doors open outward yeah and no and we didn't um we did discuss what we were looking at I don't know your plan development regulations that well but usually 5 and a half acres isn't large enough so I I don't know what your requirements are but but also too again the whole reason for the map and the regional commercial is that there's only nine eight Parcels other that this could impact and so if there's more restrictions that are needed or a conditional use that needed yes we Chang Cod that's 2015 that's how you're getting an assisted living facility at the Titusville mall so codes changed based upon consumer demands and consumer desires and the citizens desires so that's we heard today properties and if land's coming in to be annexed then they can say no we're not going to make it RC because it might be more storage that that was critical to my question right you didn't explore a potential alternative whereby from your presentation which I respect you've shown me it's going to be lovely but there's no guarantee to that the response to that is we can do conditional uses and we can lather up a whole lot of Standards but we're doing in a difficult manner where we're adding arbitrary things to the record as opposed to going through a zoning District where the negotiated agreement is this is what we'll build the way this looks and if we do this we will end up with a nice project and more importantly we won't end up throwing the baby out with the bath water Citywide or for the next hundred years as the city grows with sites that only have a very limited standard by which they develop so I would simply ask you again the question you might perhaps want to work more closely with staff to see if there's an alternative to just what you've got in front of us yes sir okay we've got a lot of lights lit up here and we're still uh under discussion uh citizens to be do we have many cards uh I only have the two speaking cards I have spoken okay uh member Grant uh ma'am could you put the proposed site plan back up again maybe please no I just didn't know how to turn it on yeah this one here building number five is the in the middle am I correct surrounded by four additional buildings right yes sir now the one that's next to Cheney Highway we're looking the rear of that building is towards chy Highway am I correct that's the that is that's the one that would have the facade that looks like an office with the doors coming facing north okay that's I was wondering what I was right strictly thinking about a Statics here and what it look like towards cheny Highway when you rid down chy high okay the other picture that you showed this one here this this is the way it would look towards would be that's Cheney Highway you're looking at Cheney Highway you're the buildings one story all of them yes all of these are one story in the the front also it's two story in the back but ex existing is two story all the new would be one story okay all thank you member Rogers I I'm impressed with their architecture I have to say uh I've never seen storage buildings built like that um they're they're sharp um I am impressed with the solution um and the one story thing um and I get that they have been hampered and hamstrung by this requirement this is going to probably sound like a stupid question but I so if I got this right that they because of the type of of um business this is that they only have 30% of footprint on that property um so they only have another 8% of the property that can be built on by them or by anybody including if they sell part of the property to another person or does that reset if it's I mean it's it's by anybody and it's because the regional commercial has a limitation of 30% coverage for any use okay so so who even you if they sold like the front half of the parking lot to somebody else they could still only use the remaining 8% correct I find that exceptionally restrictive um uh I mean I guess that's how it is but I just I'm a little shocked by that um but I guess the the only other thing I wanted to say was I I I don't think I this was a much better request than I expected um when I now that I understand it I do think that the language needs to be rewarded I I think Mr facon is correct on that I I too was a little confused by the way that that would work but or at least maybe I thought it would leave you know an opening through which one could drive a truck um later but I guess the one thing is I was uh I I I do think that it's important to consider yes okay retail may be dead or dying I'm not sure that's going to be a permanent condition but maybe it is um but it it does take on the one hand it does take a huge chunk of possible retail space off the table in an area that really could stand it on the other hand if there's only 8% of the land left for retail space anyway um you know like what are we going to do with it um so I don't know I I have to say you know if if if I were if I were reviewing an architecture students solution for a problem of this sort I would give this High marks member moso yeah um I think you mentioned citizens desires and um and that is one thing um as I've been talking to people I have yet to hear someone say we need more storage units and I really haven't heard anyone say we need more storage units in front of another storage unit what I hear people say is we need more places to eat and we need more places to shop and I understand that um you haven't been able to sell this property since uh 2019 yet I think it' be a big disservice to our community if we just let this go because it's a an quote unquote isore let's just go ahead and stick more storage units um I think um we can do better for our citizens of Titusville so those are my thoughts on it CH jman so for Brad I guess or Ed what when we did the original um conversion of of the Kmart building to to what it is now is the land coverage 30% based on that use that that's a that's a zoning land use it's not um not the cup or whatever is approved or however it's from a manage storage standpoint it's a development standard within that zoning district for any all developments cumulatively on that lot so I and you know I I I know that and remember the present ation where I think it was actually two out Parcels that the goal was to turn the parking lot into two quick service restaurants and and I certainly sympathize with the fact that if if it is an 8,000 foot or two two 8,000 square foot limitations because of of what's left based on the 30% um that part's not desirable as far as the use of taking that you know up another 20% for the what's proposed as as more storage I I don't necessarily agree with that I don't know what the method to give them some relief to make the out Parcels for the the purposes that I think we desired which was the you know quick service restaurants or or some kind of um offices or something it's more compatible with the kinds of things that have gone in recently along that Corridor you know I I would be open to that certainly open to getting rid of a bunch of black top and trying to get more uh permeable surfaces more trees more more uh along there instead of a SE of black top that it is now but I don't quite know what the mechanism for that is but and whe and I like the idea of a member garage on the on the Pud if if if that's the method and if that works or something but certainly I do have a a lot of problems with the fact that to get this to where it's of some use besides what it is we have to change an ordinance that applies across the entire city is very problematic to me okay any other cards Lori no sir okay I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the commission any questions or uh no all said um my issue again is is again across the board blanketing making changes for something that they can do um through another Avenue that's available to them um I like to think that they're very very intelligent people they know this um I I don't know why the option of changing the ordinance was the one that they landed on on but it doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy that this is the option that they chose um they're very intelligent they know their options um so yeah that's where I stand any other discussion well uh in regard to what uh member Charles said I'll have to disclose too that I did not pay for a unit in that but had a family member that had a unit there and uh I would admit they're very nice units and they're well taken care of but that doesn't go along with the r SE zoning any other discussion MCH yeah I was just GNA say I just you know I like it but um I I totally understand not wanting I didn't exactly like all of the plan but I like you know I like to have something filled in there for sure so member garage said about a plan um a plan development zone or is that what it's called plan de development Zone I think going down that route and then so it if it's something that that can be reviewed as an overall plan I think that's a great idea if it's possible if it's in our in our code right now that that they can go down that path I think that's a great option to go down so then we can so then you know everyone can look at it and say yeah that looks great and even if it's not storage if it's something else or whatever it is um we can look at it but uh just something so it can be changed to something else besides the Sea of asphalt it does um it does look a little there sometimes trucks are parked there even if there's events or something I'd love to have an event there if it's all like laid down some grass or something um but um anyway all right remember Charles I mean member Rogers I just wondered Brad um this 30% you said there were some that were more restricted 25% um have you found this 30% applies to anything in this zoning type the the the third or or is it simply businesses of this type I mean the the 30 30% the 30% building coverage is for all buildings cumulatively on the lot okay so that's the maximum this particular zoning I'm sorry in this particular type of zoning in this zoning District so each zoning district has its own standard okay I believe the community commercial has the same um I did mention earlier that the um neighbohood commercial and the office perect something happened to your microphone did you not hear uh I no I I did hear okay um but uh I um so so uh have you I gu I mean part of that I suppose is to allow for parking and part of it is to allow to for uh you know know drainage Pond or something yeah I something was going on with my microphone um I guess what I'm what I'm trying to get at is have you found that to be overly restrictive or in other you know situations besides this particular property has that ratio seemed to work out fairly well and are there pretty good reasons for that I assume that there are I just wonder what they are I can't speak for the specific reasons why that was put in there at the time when these regulations were adopted my conclusion would be to address what was presented earlier primarily as far it's a regulation to ensure there's compatibility of scale of buildings with other uses nearby because commercial zoning districts are typically something you find next to residential um the out or the exception to Mr aton's Question about what is the relief currently the relief is a variance so and and that's true of any other regulations inside the zoning districts if you need to get a relief to the minimum criteria for or standard for a setback or the maximum building coverage or whatever that might be uh the variance before the board of adjustments and appeals is the is the option a one time thing for that particular property it those types of requests are processed in relation to a particular application for development okay so wece receive an application for a site plan develop for uh site plan for a proposed development or a building permit during that review we determine whether they are meeting the criteria and if they're not we tell them what the options are and typically it's a variance okay thanks member Gad uh and same question line U when I asked earlier and the applicant apparently and some of the members followed the idea you responded Brad that a plan development I say that because I'm familiar with that terminology in the city it may be called Planned unit development or whatever um that is a alternative that would allow the applicant to present what they've presented as an example tonight in a way in which the commission and city council could actually be confident that what's proposed is what gets built that way then that zoning district is available for resoning potentially yes okay and when you spoke about that the alternative that would be more consistent than to change the zoning text could be a variance a variance is predicated on a hardship if you have an alternative zoning District where you haven't explored that particular alternative it would seem far-fetched to me that a variance could be granted contingent on showing an illustration of hardship when you haven't tried the route that's available to you and that's very important to me that relationship between potentially a variance application as opposed to to zoning text application as opposed to a zoning District request of change three different Avenues I so if this ordinance is adopted with any particular conditions um if the conditions are part of the use that's typically not something you can consider as a variance because that you have to meet those conditions in order to allow that use but if there are other standards such as in the zoning District itself such as additional regulations related to to setbacks placement of building access management height bulk standards of that nature uh those are typically things that can be relieved through the variance process with an actual Bonafide development going through the process so if this ordinance is adopted The Next Step would be that someone would want to utilize this ordinance with an actual proposed site plan and through that process would determine what relief they would need to go through depending on what that standard they can't meet is being presented to us but yes they can it does appear that the plan development zoning tool that we have in the city's code could be used I'd have to review more or the applicant will have to speak with us to see what they want to do and to explore that option to answer specifics as to whether it's something they could use tonight I no no my comments are not for this application this is a zoning text Amendment as a I refer to it plain and simple pretty pictures are just that technically they're in applicable to any else in the city there is an alternative in which the pretty pictures as I like to refer to them could be incorporated into a presentation in which when the Planning and Zoning commission and subsequently the council would review what it is being proposed it would attach itself to that development order that's issued it would look that way or it would be shaped that way going the route we're on now the alternative to changing the zoning District to get an agreeable bond between the applicant and the city council for approval of the pretty picture would be doing a zoning text Amendment on face value right now there's nothing except enlarging the building footprint and I believe you said bulk so if they can't build 60% building on that site zoned RC today an alternative route the applicant could seek would be to argue they have a hardship and seek a variant from that bulk restriction of 30% and say I need to be 60 because I have a hardship and my comment was I can't see a hardship existing when staff has reported you have an alternative route you should explore which would be doing a zoning change for one that would be a contractual relationship between the presentation and the future development of the site that is available for them to choose to look at you you said that is a zoning District that's potentially compatible with the comp plan on that site yes provided everything is consistent with the city's opens plan and other regulations the plan development resoning process is a potential tool it's a it's a tool to tailor make a zoning District basically thank you and I think that's what was being presented tonight a tailor made plan thank you okay any other discussion anyone care to make a motion member Gard I hate to be on a rooll but I am u i i I've stated on the record my my position and my opinion and the basis of that it would be my recommendation to recommend denial to the city council of the applicant's request to change the zoning the motion is to recommend denial yes I'll second seconded by members Moscoso any other discussion roll call please Lori member facon yes member Moscoso yes member Gad yes Vice chairman Aton yes member Childs yes secretary Grant no chairman Richardson yes okay thank you thank you thank you for coming and it'll be heard at council meeting the public hearing will be um July I'm sorry June 11th June 11 okay next item is item 9d golden knights Boulevard ordinance thank you chairman and good evening Commissioners uh this item should look familiar we've discussed it at a couple meetings now um just a refresher at the last uh the last time we discussed this meeting this item it was the April 3rd pnz meeting and that's when we got some feedback from the commission on what you'd like to see in an ordinance and just to summarize um again those are on the bottom of page 148 there's three bullet points um you you all suggested that you would um request a burm with A continuous Hedge along the BM slope and an opaque fence or wall along the top of the burm second point was to allow flexibility to build a burm wall where the burm is facing golden knights Boulevard and the wall faces interior to the site and then the third uh request was to apply the enhanced buffer to all development along golden kns Boulevard not just those uses that include outdoor storage so I believe we we've captured all those points um the first change is shown on page 151 of 172 tonight and that's establishing uh the the building setback again that was part of the original draft where we had a 50ft building setback from Golden Knights Boulevard on these uh properties uh so you'll see that in the M2 zoning District standards on the next page page 152 the bottom of the Box there's a new footnote being proposed and that's to establish the landscape buffer um so you'll see if you follow um in this table where it says proposed development on the left hand side for commercial or industrial developments that AB but a public rideway there's a type B buffer that's required and then there's a superscript three to indicate that if the property is along not just any public right of way but the Golden Nights Boulevard ride of way uh that the 50- foot landscape yard would apply in that case and then we included illustrations to help um understand what the burm should look like and what the burm wall could look like and those are on page uh 155 um so you see in exhibit a it's the first illustration on the top you have a 5ft tall burm and a 6ft wall on top of the burm and then the burm wall uh very similar but would save space by only having a half burm um so this is the ordinance I think captures the uh items that you requested and if not we'll happily uh make some additional changes Eddie pardon me but but I did not give uh secretary Grant an opportunity to State a reason why he voted no on that last item it's too late now no you can still State there not important any chelse see I just go ahead I'm just tired of seeing the the uh ugly parking lot and it seems to me that any type of uh um construction was better than none that's all okay now go ahead uh that was the end of my presentation so um happy to answer any questions um the the text that goes along with those illustrations is on page 154 just before it and that's a new subsection H that we're proposing that uh writes out those requirements and this was shown before the airport Authority right the airport Authority has seen it and they concurred with uh the suggestions that pnz had and so they're they're okay with this ordinance okay thank you member Rogers I just had a question I really kind of in all the visuals we've seen I love the trees and um is there any requirement or even just suggestion to use trees or or is that just up to each individual property owner as I think a a had just mentioned but right so the continuous hedge is the enhancement above what would be required otherwise the IAL landscape buffer plantings which includes trees would be required along uh the BM remember the I'm not sure I understood what you said so if if the property's developed and it's an office building and they have a nice facade and everything is this still required because it's a budding golden kns Boulevard or so no matter what it's effectively it's got to go behind the burm wall so you mentioned that if the site was already developed no no if if they're so so you know this was initiated to my recollection because of the concrete crushing facility and all that which 100% get this is required for that but if a piece of property along there blue origin SpaceX somebody wants to put a nice look office building on a piece of property that AB buts golden knights Boulevard does this still have to go in front of their building yes sir member fer I saw your light on for a moment yeah I had a question is this is only for Golden kns Boulevard it wouldn't affect Perimeter Road around the airport right that's correct okay and just to add on that um that was because of the direction given by city council to focus on the entrance to the airport which is golden kns Boulevard member Rogers could could we do this for every street in Titusville I think it' [Laughter] be um member guard uh you raised a question I didn't think about on that when we discussed this previously and the history that was provided about the concrete crushing in the discussions I believe that I was trying to emphasize the buffering as to impede the view of outdoor storage areas inclusive of concrete storage and the whole upshot of that was if it's ugly hide it behind a wall in a burn but with the response that this would apply to any development including SpaceX which I think is a lovely big building along a road similar to Golden Knights Boulevard that in my opinion wasn't what I was trying to accomplish with my discussion I was hoping we would take the ugly stuff and put it behind a burn but if you had a proposal using space X as the example that wouldn't necessarily be the standard by which you had to develop that site is there a way that flexibility can be put in there so I remember that being part of the discussion so uh going back to the bullet points summarizing the points that we received on April 3rd um there was discussion about um a a burm not being continuous along golden knights and that not being ideal and so if you had a concrete crushing facility a Office Professional office building and then another concrete crushing facility the feedback that we received was that pnz would like to see a continuous burn regardless of the uses but if you wanted to um specify that that only applies to where there's outdoor storage you could do that but that wasn't the direction I I um understood certainly I can understand I'd be interested what the other members feel like whether it should be a categorical application or whether it would be only applied to those which are unsightly like outdoor storage M Rogers I just think if you don't make it uh you know apply to everybody then you get into Beauty contests you got to have somebody judging who you know which building's ugly and which building's not and you know there fist fights and uh and people cry I I think frankly it it ought to apply to everything I mean the the idea was that it was the kind of gateway to the city in and out you know via air and um I don't know I I got more faith in in the ability of a burm to make something look better than the ability of a builder remember Grant actually it's the gateway to as I said before the gateway to our airport that's one of the reason why I thought that it it would be better if it was uniform throughout the entire length of um um golden kns Boulevard that's just my opinion though Vice chairman Aon so on that note are there guidelines on entrances penetrations through the burn because aren't we blocking some some of these properties I assume have no alternate access to a road besides off of golden Knight's Boulevard so has to be a a penetration what does that penetration look like what does signage look like are we going to try somebody going to try to sell a piece of property to put an office building on but they can't put signage because there's a burm there I I'm just worried that there's some unintended consequences to this okay at this point I'll open the public hearing L do we have any cards no cards okay close the public hearing comes now back to the commission yeah uh Charles do you have to like make the driveway go like this so then they they or maybe up over the BM I don't know like like Serpentine drive and lo I I think we talked about that a little bit during our discussion but it's there's so many things that you have to take into consideration it's really tough to like nail them all down so I don't know um yeah I I don't know that we didn't talk about screening or I think it's we were like well they're going to go in and there's going to be an opening through the burn and I um I could go either way on if they have to I understand having a nice building uh there and that you don't that you wouldn't need a you know wall there to to hide a nice looking building and we're really want to cover up the the uses like you know the outdoor storage and concrete crushing stuff or whatever that doesn't look nice but um uh I could go either way on there but I understand maybe you have to I don't know what the answer to that is unless it's like going around having the curve in the street or something but um yeah and it's like offset or something the Wall's offset and so you got to go go around but um I I don't know what that that looks like but um or it has to be on a certain part of the property where there isn't outdoor storage or something so but I yeah I don't know member finer so yeah I guess no just to really hone in on that question would this allow for an entrance or would it not yeah I wanted to explain on that so an access point would still be allowed through the burm and so that would um impact the the visibility however a driveway might be 30 ft as opposed OS to just the the concrete crushing facility as an example that Frontage is 630 ft so an access point 30t compared to not requiring it along a frontage an entire Frontage of a piece of property because of its use is is a big difference member Gad one last question for the staff the when the presentation first was you calculated the vacant development sites potential that this rule would apply to and I seem to recall there were two vacant sites this being the wherever the concrete crushing site would have been isn't that was one of the two and that retroactively this burm development would only occur if someone were to have to I guess completely redevelop the site or would the city I don't think that would be too likely retroactively require implementation of that standard on existing sites right so I think we talked about the site plan for the concrete crushing facility being expired U at one of the previous meetings so if they were to reapply they'd have to meet any new standards um there are only a handful of properties along golden knights Boulevard some of them are not even in the city limits and so that that was another issue that was brought up um but yes this would only apply to less than five properties currently thank you so if they reapplied and we adopted this ordinance and Council adopted this ordinance they would have to comply with this ordinance correct but too many T sorry I just want to be clear so because there's only two properties the you know I think the mental picture we paint is turn into the airport and we've got this nice tree line Street and the BM and everything like that but the reality of what can happen is only until it's developed are you going to get it and it's only on that piece of property any other piece of property they're not required to go back and retroactively at it so it's going to be a hodg podge of continuity along there kind of no matter what right right so the city's not going to require um you know a certain date that all the property owners along golden knights Boulevard uh construct the burm along these properties and a lot of times that's what we do in zoning is gradual changes so that over time we create that continuous burm so you're right at first it will be um mix mix and match any other discussion any other questions anyone care to make a motion I see everybody jumping at the bed member Grant secretary Grant yeah thank you Mr chairman uh I'd like to make a motion to approve the ordinance uh for gold golden I Boulevard I'm not sure if I yeah I'll do that right with the enhanced buffering along Golden ice Boulevard okay motion to approve is there second second second by member Charles any discussion one more time Vice chairman Aon is there a mechanism that would allow a person to that's building a building because I I again going back to the office building I think we're potentially discouraging people of building a nice complex along there if they've got to hide it behind a burall is there a mechanism we could put into this that would allow them to come back before us or Council or the building department somebody to give relief if it met a certain criteria and I realized member Rogers and were you know figuring out is it a good-look building or not a good-look building or whatever but at some point is there a way to put something in this that would allow or does it already exist if we approve this can they petition it's not really a variance but some relief for this if they are presenting a plan and an opportunity for the city to you know build something that's more even more attractive than the BM would be my initial reaction was the variant option but a hardship might be difficult to prove just because of the the use or the Aesthetics of the building that's being pro proposed so that that could be challenging um I'm sure there's a way to write the language to make it so that there's either a conditional use is is required uh it would be challenging but if if that's the direction that pnz would like to see then we could we could figure it out secretary Grant sorry any other discussion when voting what are our what are our options so there's yay nay is there a third option I don't know of one table or modify say again you could approve table modify no I mean no my personal vote each of our personal votes we can say that's the word I'm looking for can we obstain only if you have a financial conflict or something that would endure to a financial benefit or loss to you thank you Chelsea okay any further discussion roll call please Lori member Moscoso yes member Gad yes secretary Grant yes member Childs yes member facon no Vice chairman Aton no chairman Richardson yes okay member facing the member Aon you could give your reasons for casting no votes M mine is purely the nature of my four five six questions whatever is that I would fully support it if there was some mechanism that you know because I'm also on the development Zone board somebody brings in a a a project for a piece of property along there that's very compatible with the airport and a big asset to the city they're not going to want to build a pretty building behind a burn wall and it seems like there should be a way way to allow them to do that M fa uh along those lines um it's it's the continuity as well um since we the city of Titusville doesn't it's not within any limits of that entire parcel so even if we wanted to make this a mandate there'll be patches along the way um and so that mixed with the beautiful building being built um although I totally agree with with anything that's going to be of an eyesore it needs to be behind something and so just the continuity of of of implementation is just not there and so the answer is no the vote was 5 to2 when will this be heard before City Council next week June 11th June 11th couple of weeks away okay next item is 9e Street naming resolution for the River Walk project we have an interlocal agreement with Bard County 911 to assign addresses they have a request from the property owner for certain names on the streets that are located inside the Riverwalk apartment development and so U according to our code and the requirements of the interlocal agreement and Bard 911 um this resolution is being presented uh for approval in order to formally recognize the proposed street names of that development and then then to address them okay any questions of the staff yes how did the county come up with these did they like ask people or developers what names they wanted or how did the county the applicant proposes them and then the one in conjunction with City staff just to make sure they meet the criteria of our code and they're not creating duplication okay duplicate names cool any other questions of the staff okay I'll open the public hearing is anyone to speak on the public hearing any cards no cards close the public hearing comes back before the commission I'll make a motion if you're ready um a motion that we uh uh recommend approval of 9 E Street naming resolution for river walk walk project is there second to the motion second second by Vice chairman Anon any further discussion I have to you have to pardon me my nose is getting stopped up okay call the question and roll call please Lori Vice chairman Eton yes Terry Grant yes member Gad yes member Childs yes member moso yes member faon yes chairman Richardson yes okay well will that item be heard before city council uh May 28th okay item 9f do we have to take any action tonight on 9f no sir this is just for information only and just to ask ask for your input um actually I was going to ask and suggest that if there is a lengthy discussion or a lot of questions I can certainly offer to have a special workshop with you right before one of your regular meetings just so you can we can talk about this more in depth I know member Rogers had some questions hours worth no not really I I I really just had one kind of kind of big question uh Brad the um you know it seemed like as I was going through this you know I kept on finding stuff I thought why was that taken out I really like that you know and then I discovered you know that it actually had just been moved to a different location um so there was really actually there wasn't a whole lot that just like wholesale disappeared it seemed to me it just kind of got shuffled around but what it did seem to me was that many things that were originally policy were now listed as strategy and what I wanted to know was um is there any difference in strength between something listed as policy and something listed as strategy because it seemed to me that maybe policy was kind of like a little bit of a harder Rule and strategy was maybe a little more of a suggestion or a kind of a helpful hint am I right about that or that's a good question so yeah the policy is the policy this is what we want to do how do we do it is the strategy and so it's a recommendation of how to go forward to implement that policy okay so when the consultant was suggesting this uh they believe that this was a better organization to help Implement some of the so they they felt like some of the policies that were that are now strategies uh were better um written as strategies to implement a a much larger goal or a larger policy director and and I don't totally disagree with that and uh especially in certain situations I mean I have to go on a case-by Case basis which I'm not going to do right now but um I I guess I just call me cynical but I was a little worried that maybe uh uh there might have been some kind of a motivation in a few cases to change something from a policy to a strategy and make it a little less strong and I just uh that was the only thing that very occasionally worried me no that's not the case M moso um yeah so I went through a lot of these properties to see who actually own them and it looks like a lot of the property are owned by the um the Housing Authority is that correct and then um there was a few Properties by North Bard Charities and then there was only one that wasn't developed and I think it was um APA I'm not sure who owned that one um but as we look at at resoning to Urban mixed use I know that that would allow for commercial and even um I'm assuming the Housing Authority is going to possibly want to build more housing multif family developments and things like that um if that comes in h how do you Rectify that with the roads being local roads um I know that um I went to one of those meetings and one of the um one of the citizens said hey this Tropic Street's a local road if they're going to put multif family how is that going to how how are we going to rectify that and so um maybe you can speak to that yeah so this area primarily I think there's a map in your agenda we can point to page 170 of your packet so the subject area or study area for these proposed changes to policies is Illustrated on that page 170 and you'll see in the red boundary that's what we're talking about so most of that area has an urban mixed use land use category and then there's an underlying zoning District to allow that to help Implement those policies also called Urban mixed use um most of those areas most of those streets are all considered to be um are considered to be local roads according to the city's code I believe Park Avenue Delon are considered to be collector roads inside uh parar City's code uh so right now inside that zoning District it does allow a variety of retail uses in different areas with mixed in with other residential use uses along these roads along these local roads within that area so the zoning district and I'm sorry the land use category and the zon District are looked at to see if they're compatible with that particular area they're designed for this area or areas like this and so then you use the the underlying zoning District to help Implement those policies so it currently um is there so the zoning District they can utilize that zoning District to permit certain types of uses that are permitted now on some of these roads depending on what the criteria is I felt like you said something specifically in that meeting about Tropic Street like fot reclassifying that road yeah so several years ago fot went through an exercise of coming up with a context classifications and it's a another methodology of how it's it's a very unique methodology of how they classify segments of roads that they own and they maintain throughout the the state and so each district is going through that process right now and they just recently uh did that with the city of Titusville um I can share that with you the latest iteration of that uh it's they look at the context of the segment of the road and make a determination as to whether uh that should be considered a Suburban style or Urban style or whatnot they have these different classifications and that helps informs them as to what what um kind of improvements in the future might be on those roads they also identify roads that might be locally owned or maintained by a jurisdiction um and they may be identified or recommended by them through that process as whether it should be uh a collector of some form some range or or sty you know I think they have high collector or major collector or minor collector and and arals as well and one of the things that came out through that process was they were looking at Tropic Street as a collector Road the way it functions um based on some of the criteria that you have now what we going to do with that I don't know uh we have to go through what's called an evalu evaluation and appraisal report process that's a seven-year cycle where we have to evaluate our comprehensive plan and come back with amendments to it evaluating the status of our comprehensive plan to see if it's working basically and through that process the state agencies look at everything that we're doing and proposing including F and so I just anticipate they may come back with a comment about that I'm not sure and what we'll do about that I don't I don't have a good answer for you but that was something that that caught our eye when we're they were sharing that context classification information with us yes so sorry so there um and I meant to print it out for the Commissioners but there is uh on Titusville website it lists all of the roads and who maintains them whether they're private um maintained by Titusville F Dot and so that I was kind of interested in that one because it is maintained by the city of Titusville um but why F do would come in and and possibly reclassify it so that would be actually a good document I think for all of us to have because I know that brings up a lot of we have a lot of questions of who actually maintains this road or is it a County Road things like that so that could be something we add to our packets as well before we proceed Brad do we have anything uh two or three things on the agenda the next meeting we can add this I you going to have several items on your next meeting as well so I think the next few meetings are going to be you're going to see a lot more activ is there any time limit on this item yeah I there isn't a u deadline I do have um action um from city council or direction from them to go ahead and schedule transmittal hearings we did that with the bulk of the Amendments but we pulled this one out specifically because there were questions from the public and we wanted to work with the public more to see if there was any Buy in on what was being proposed here or um maybe some potential changes that we can propose in here before bringing that up to actual scheduled transmittal hearings so it's not of extreme urgent no sir okay member Rogers um I I I was just going to ask Brad um strategy 114.5 page 165 um it's like a series of bullet points uh lines 22 to 31 is is that new or is that that's all new or new where did that come from did you guys come up with that or is that come pulled from somewhere else so the consultant when they were going through the three areas uh the downtown the commercial gateways and this particular area we're trying to find some means of providing incentives to developers and Property Owners to see they can redevelop their property and usually what you have what they were suggesting is that you need to have some incentives in there to be able to get what you want if you want a good type of development that really benefits the city sometimes you have to provide incentives for that with caveats and so what they proposed here for this area was this particular strategy and then if this is adopted we would take this information and incorporate it in some way inside the code so it' be more it'll be fleshed out in more detail I I just was going to say I like it I think it's clever and I think it's uh I think it's uh appropriate and I I I think that you know maybe shows a chance of of um of being successful maybe I hope um I wanted to ask what the uh there were a couple of places where it said reserved it looked like possibly something been pulled out there but you like kept the number or that we typically just do that just because of the issues related to renumbering policies so we just we're rearranging things but instead of re you know a lot of policies going to stay the same yeah as their number and instead of one policy being changed and then instead of putting the word Reserve we use it then you have to renumber everything sub subsequent that and that can cause a lot of issues I will mention also that just as an editing point on page 167 lines 24 to 26 are a duplicate of the language on page 164 lines 10 to 13 that's correct yeah the so I didn't know if you intended to do that or if you wanted to take one of those out uh one yeah lines 24 through 26 on page 167 of your packet is intended to be reserved because that is a duplication okay and um the uh you know on on the map on 171 you know it looks like kind of all businesses except for the industrial on the upper right corner the gray they get pulled out of uh in the new um you know plan get and switch to Urban mixed use but Urban mixed use does include commercial right right it's not like there's no business allowed in that area at that point except for the heavy Industrial in the corner correct the the the recommendation is to do a map amendment to change some areas in the study area into urban mixed use land use there is not a proposal to to reone property um so the code would be more like an overlay on top of all the zoning districts so the land use will allow for a mixture of uses if a property owner or a developer so chooses to propose something that is uh residential commercial or mixed use doesn't so you're saying that doesn't that's not actually a change of of zoning correct really yeah this is I misunderstood that yes so this there's the comprehensive plan which is that governing document that growth management document with a map that shows these are the proper areas for put uses and then underneath that you have the implementation tools which are the zoning districts and Zoning code we are not proposing changing any one zoning districts we're only proposing to change the land use category on some properties in the study area so it's more of a um an enabling language an enabling uh policies and then in order to implement that we'll have to make changes to some regulations in the code but we're not proposing to change act any zoning districts okay member facon uh hello Brad so M Moscoso had made a great point which I had looked at which was who owns a lot of the property currently which is the city of Titusville um and so that's public housing um that's Titusville Housing Authority is a different agency from the city I'm sorry that's sry tusv Housing Authority well what I mean but a lot of those folks are on low income or or fixed income um is t t Housing Authority going to move or create another area to move these people to to or are they looking for we don't have any information of their plans to to do that they've been made inform you know aware of of this proposal we've had a meeting with the new executive director just a few months ago about it uh but we are not aware of any particular plans that they have to move people or build new housing okay uh member Gad um a couple of comments I'd like to make just because I think they're pertinent this area and we've had several discussions in the past year about what the lived local act does um I think it would be fair to assume that you're within a mile of the building here by the city hall the Retirement Village building and so in this area Illustrated on page 170 that I'm guessing my best guess is there is an area within that larger um Urban mixed use that would be within a mile so the potential based on live local and back to affordable housing is you could see a I don't know how tall that building is but I guess it's 13 14 stories maybe maybe more I'm just guessing but point being this is an area based on that zoning District based on Liv local that these Urban standards that are being Incorporated enhancing it and a lot of the presentation done by the consultant it never envisioned multiple 13 story buildings but I believe based on what I understand the live local act provides for currently that's exactly what could end up there just a point of reference what you see is not necessarily what you get the second and I think more pertinent comment I have and hearing the consultant's presentation during my tenure here and um seeing what the potential Redevelopment of this area could be based on the presentation and now incorp op ating this is policies and adding to that your comment Brad about fot and Tropic Street um the city's embracing an urban scape of development that is going to create walkable livable neighborhoods that are connected that's kind of the central theme one of the parts that I've mentioned before and I'll reiterate that the city really must grab hold of the fact that as it urbanizes with these types of development standards it must also accept the responsibility and expand its level of service meaning it's it can no longer take the position that you own property on the sidewalk so you have to fix it you have to clean it you have to mow it and those benches and things that are set there that are part of the scape that you've tried to create this walkable neighborhood that you're going to make the owner under code enforcement fix that clean that that repaint that so the short of it is in areas that are urbanizing that urbanized and now deal with the event of urbanization dense uh development that the cities or even counties that had that through special taxing districts have to expand their level of service they they can't treat uh a main artery or collector Road Tropic street through the middle of this and I think what you were trying to say Brad is f would look at classifications and perhaps the language has changed but they're looking at what is probably a street maintained as a rural road standard it's roadside ditches it's grass there's no curb there's no drainage retention design it's just a paved Road and seeing the presentation with this urbanist look means that that road will change its character one day it'll turn into a road that is an urban collector it will be curb and gutter design it will have sidewalks that's all in the goals and policies that this is part well woven into and my whole upshot point is city council and and certainly the leadership of the city they have to also embrace the idea they got to expand their level of service to keep up with maintaining the character you're trying to create through this policy through these objectives and that's just something I think is is nature of when you make these presentations the underlying footnote should always be uh the subscript and oh by the way we need to look at our Capal improvements program we need to expand our roadway Network we need to create a new level of service we need to maintain these Urban things we can't just adopt them as a policy and not also accept the responsibility and I just say that from experience watching things change I I I'll put a point in case that maybe would focus on this I'm sure members here can remember driving to Walt Disney World at some point everybody's probably driven 192 to Walt Disney World if you go there today you see a very improved roadway um it's in a special taxing district they've self-imposed this and you've got all kinds of accessibility benefits you got networks for bike ways you've got pedestrian WS you got bus stops you got bus pull-offs we just say it's real nice up until about the middle 90s um fot maintained 192 um as they always did that was their Road as a state road and they maintained it based on the standard it was a rural road section it was a four-lane highway with drainage ditches and the way that fot maintains Dr drainage ditches on the way to Disney is those those ditches get mowed every six months whether the cat tails are real tall or not every six months we're going to maintain it millions or billions of people visited Walt Disney World going down this Rural Road on the way like the way the classifications were worked like they were driving a Farm Road and they weren't driving a Farm Road they were driving the most heavily trafficked Road probably in the state with the most numbers of people visiting one site in the state or the country Walt Disney World took a lot of effort but finally they accomplished it now when you look at it they've got the taxing base capable of maintaining it standard you appreciate it looks like you're driving to Disney World when you go there because it's a beautiful roadway section so my point is and I made that earlier in one of the president ations that as the city Embraces these kind of urban designs and sees the pictures with uh the streets and the walkability and and Embraces that the city must tackle the maintenance issue at a higher level of standard than what they have now they cannot just and I say that collectively the city it's not just a person it's the city has to embrace that we're an urban city and therefore we have to create a level of service representing that that's my only footnote for that particular pet peeve of mine is maintenance of Roads when you have pretty pictures thought building Heights of Roads a few other things are my pet peeves I'll admit that that's chairman Aon uh when this comes back or whenever we discuss it again uh it would be helpful to me at least if we had some kind of a bullet chart comparison chart it seems like um there's primarily three zoning or not zoning but land use uh categories of commercial high intensity commercial low intensity and the uh medium density residential and I guess a little bit of high density residential that are all getting converted to Urban mixed use if there was like a little chart that says okay this is urban mix use and allowed you're losing this or gaining this as you reclassify that kind of goes to member Rogers um comment as well is you know as we're reclassifying this it would be good to understand what the pluses and minuses are yeah and just to speak to the live local part um I I just looked it up but most of those if you look at the the little squares um they're they're about 2.6 Acres each so they're not big Parcels of land and for urban mix use it's 15 Acres I mean 15 units per acre so say two acres let's say like maybe 37 units plus a bonus density which is like five I think so we're talking 40 units for two acres so I don't think we're going to get really high buildings based off of this I could be wrong but um I think that's something to consider and Brad you might be able to speak to that the yeah you I think several members of the public asked that a similar question or about scale and you even though you may have a maximum density allowed on a piece of property that's if you can't do it if you can't can't engineer it because there are other requirements that come into play storm water ret requirements parking requirements whatever that might be that might Whittle down actual number of residential units you could potentially put on a piece of property so yeah everything else comes into play so the starting point is something to looks at to see what their density is allowed and then they have to look at everything else to see what they could actually do okay uh do we have any specific time you'd recommend where we can either have a special meeting to discuss this a workshop it was only a suggestion because um I can bring this back at a future meeting at your uh Choice um you know I I'm just want I want to see if I can when I go to city council with their requested um they made a decision to go ahead in schedule transmittal hearings but before I do that I'd like to be able to go to that meeting and say well this is what the public has said this is what the Planning and Zoning commission has has said uh obviously if there's a scheduled transmittal hearing you're going to have it as an official hearing before you before it goes to city council so you make a formal action or recommendation to them um if there are a lot of questions about this a lot of concerns I was going to suggest maybe just a one-hour workshop at five o'clock right before one of your regular meetings just to talk about this particular topic and it's not an an O it's not a meeting where you have to make a decision it's just providing input and we're going D doing a deep dive this and I can also show you the draft Land Development regulations that are that complement this that would help Implement some of these policies and I do plan on having another community meeting as well do you seriously think we can an hour is enough before a regular meeting I it's up to you if you want to use a regular meeting to do it maybe at the end of one of your agenda items like tonight we could do that too how does the commission feel about this you want to have a a workshop meeting or do one other suggestion we've been reaching out to all of you before each meeting to try and do a a 30 minute phone call to try and answer questions uh we are open to having a more in-depth conversation with you about any agenda item before then so that might be an opportunity as well but I seriously think it needs to be all of us together at a wordshop meaning to discuss this um member Rogers I just think we you know' be fine to try one meeting anyway and a 1 hour meeting before the regular meeting and see how that goes and if we if it goes well and we still need more we could do it again I guess member facon so I have a lot of questions about this a ton and primarily about the displacement of the residents and what the city plans on doing and I know right now that's not this form because we are planning a zoning but um when we do speak on this in another form I have lots of questions about um the city imposed gentrification um and what they're going to do about displacing the residents and for those who own property so I I'm I'm totally in favor of having another meeting whether it's before the meeting or or or in this venue um that's why I didn't really ask a lot of questions tonight because you already said you know um but yeah I whatever you guys decide but I I do want to have a more in-depth meeting specifically about this remember let's go could we have someone I don't know if it would be Neighborhood Services or the Housing Authority come in to that meeting to answer those questions for us are they even part of the conversation well I could certainly uh have some of from our neighborhood services department ask see they can participate in a conversation about this uh the Housing Authority I can inform them of the event and be up to them if they want to attend because that's a different agency all together well do you want to have try a 5:00 meeting before our next meeting to see how that goes yes only if you bring balloons for Brad's birthday where did balloons disappeared to you you really apprciate sure yeah yeah seriously yes do you want to have a five o' meeting before the meeting the next meeting two weeks from now okay and if something happens and a lot of items are postponed we'll still have the meeting okay next item is petitions and requests from the public present seeing none we'll go on to item 11a Community Development spotlight video we have a video that was shown to city council uh a few months ago just a spotlight of our department and what we do uh it's something that City coun or the city manager has asked us to all the Departments to do annually um so we did we've done one A different one every year so we'll show you uh this year's version the Community Development Department consists of the planning department development services the building department Neighborhood Services Economic Development A Redevelopment planner sustainability planner and GIS the department is responsible for the review and approval of all development proposals in the city the planning department provides review and Analysis of land use and development proposals to ensure compatibility with the community standards as established by the city's comprehensive plan and Land Development regulations the planners Ure the city's comprehensive plan is consistent with State requirements and analyzes land use and development patterns to maximize smart growth the planners help develop new public policy per City council's Direction and they facilitate public participation and Community engagement in the planning process the Redevelopment planner implements the city's downtown Redevelopment plan and budget and assists the executive director with the community redevelopment agency the Redevelopment planner reviews building and design plans for conformance to the city's downtown mixed use zoning District development standards the sustainability planner implements the city's sustainability action plan including submitting Grant requests that focus on resiliency and sustainable development the sustainability planner also serves as the staff lson to the Titusville environmental commission as part of the city's development review process the sustainability planner verifies low impact development best management practices proposals and administers any necessary agreements for compliance with the L ordinance the development services division serves as the centralized point of contact for all new residential commercial and Industrial projects staff is responsible for conducting technical engineering reviews of all new development proposed in the city staff reviews site plans landscape plans grading plans utility plans drainage studies and traffic reports related to each proposed development to ensure that all new development is conducted in compliance with the technical requirements of the city's Land Development regulations the division provides technical assistance for variance requests to the board of adjustments and appeals and waivers to the city's administrative level development Review Committee the development services division also issues all business tax receipts also known as occupational licenses to businesses and certain nonprofits throughout the city these include commercial retail industrial mobile vendors and even homebased businesses The Building Division reviews all vertical building construction plans and permit applications as well as issues permits for construction Redevelopment and building Improvement projects and inspections the building official and city engineer are the city's flood plane managers and help the city maintain its Community rating in FEMA's National flood insurance program the city's participation in the program helps residents and business owners obtain flood insurance the neighborhood services department has grown to a team of seven employees and serve as a city's administrator for various federal and state Grant programs related to housing Public Services Community Development and revitalization strategies throughout the city the department is tasked with developing and managing neighborhood revitalization and affordable housing strategy area plans regulated by the US Department of Housing and the State of Florida and oversees the operations of the Harry T Moore Social Service Center and its Community programs and services the department formulates and implements the city's 5-year Community Development block grant Consolidated plan Community Development block grant and home investment partnership program annual action plans and the state Housing Initiative partnership 3-year local housing assistance plan A Additionally the department leads the affordable housing advisory committee in the development of the city's annual housing incentive plan in addition to managing these ongoing federal and state Grant programs the department serves as administrator of several special or one-time grants relating to affordable housing and Human Services such as the American Rescue plan act National opioid settlement neighborhood stabilization program Corona virus and live local act programs the department negotiates regulates and monitors these programs and Associated subaward agreements to to ensure subrecipients and funded projects are in compliance the economic development department is tasked with a strategic planning and execution of initiatives aimed at enhancing the city's economic landscape its duties Encompass attracting new businesses through targeted Outreach and development programs supporting the expansion and retention of existing businesses and facilitating job creation to bolster the local economy furthermore the department serves as a vital eaon between the city its business community and other governmental entities ensuring collaborative efforts towards economic sustainability and development the Community Development Department is currently working on comprehensive plan amendments related to the Titusville tomorrow project the purpose of the project is to incentivize Redevelopment in the downtown and on the city's major commercial corridors with flexible development standards and increased density in key areas in addition the project envisions opportunities for infill development in the Canaveral Heights neighborhood this project should be completed by the end of 2024 and notice that pnz is not mentioned Tec is mentioned Board of adjustments and appeals is mentioned but we're not mentioned there's no mention this was presented to city council last month and you know it's presented just prior to budget sessions beginning let's be honest with you and I think we should have been mentioned because we're twice the work of the staff than Tec or Board of adustment and heels terrible any comments I had noticed that too when I first saw the video I was like wait they show everyone but but I mean that's kind of a pride thing so I don't really think it's important but I mean it's nice to get recognition but uh you know it's a video it's promotion I don't know I guess we're not pretty enough for video I'm not screen tested yet so any other discussion my feelings are hurt okay under reports um staff do you have a report no sir City attorney you may or may not know that the live local act um glitch bill has been approved by the governor he signed it into law and it became effective immediately the city of Titusville has drafted a updated ordinance and the live local ordinance will be presented to pnz on June 5th has it change from what we uh there's been some changes there's been some um tweaks we'll call them there's modifications clarifications and we've taken what the state legislature did and Incorporated those changes into our city ordinance and CH see in regard to the the um what we have to file every year the form the financial disclosure it's changed and it's electronic yeah is it more complicated or is it's the same form but it's electronic but it has to be turned in by so the advice that's given by this um department is to fill it out as soon as possible because in the month of June there may be a delay if you have phone call questions where you need to call and get assistance and So to avoid any delays in the month of June um because the deadline is July 1st the advice is to do it as soon as possible and if you have questions call me okay under chairperson's report thank you for living with me with this uh you know nasal stuff I've had and uh didn't notice oh yeah I bet you didn't um there are a lot worse problems that you got you any members were report any memory reports I have a question since Liv local came up are there we were very concerned about applications and things over the past several months is there any projects currently submitted that are live local we have one site plan that is in formal review we have not received responses to our first comment round of comments uh we have also met formally with two other potential applicants but they have not formally submitted an application yet so potentially three properties yeah remember Charles about the the live local the county just had a meeting what was it Tuesday and they discussed um one of the changes was the uh property tax exemption um for you can uh elect to not exemp property under a certain section of the of the live local act um is basically the the one where it says if you have enough um if you have enough low um low um you know affordable housing in the area you can be exempt and then the county did an assessment of of their of how much affordable housing they had and they said that according to that they could go ahead and exempt themselves from this tax exemption so s so um I don't know if that's I can send you it's under section 19 19 96. 1978 uh 3D and then 1 a but um I think that's what it was yeah I took a picture of it because I was like um I didn't I didn't know I know they did their own assessment so I wasn't sure if that was applicable to us or not or if that's something that we at least want to discuss or not because the county just voted on it I think they approved um exempting themselves or exempting the county from from that part of it from the tax exemption um so just uh FYI anything else we do want to welcome uh member moffen representing of the school board this is about average length the meetings some are much shorter some are much longer if there's no other items we stand adjourned