e for commission for March 6 2024 will come to order roll call please chairman Richardson here Vice chairman Aton secretary Grant here member Childs here member Gad here member fac here member moso here alternate member finer here alternate member Rogers here Schoolboard member Gilbert Pier would you please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance if I can get up United States of America stands na indivisible andice for all I couldn't see the flag for this balloon which did not put theirs we do have a quorum next thing is approval of the minutes of February 21st 2024 any additions or Corrections M Rogers I just wondered um it mentioned that the uh you know on a couple of objections they were environmental objections and I wonder do we ever put anything more specific than that or is that simply uh the typical way that that's mentioned I uh a couple of people mentioned men specifically painted buntings um on that property and I just wondered whether that's the sort of thing that specifically gets mentioned and um the minutes used to be detailed MH and so about four or five years ago um we thought they should just be the highlights of the meeting so they're not in any detail because when they were in detail it would take you about 20 minutes to read a minutes sure um member moso um yeah this might fall under the same category but um there was a section where we had a discussion about the kimley horn conflict of interest and we had um different people State their opinions I um would like to have those opinions entered into the record um all it says here is that um the commission members had a discussion and I think member Gard um Mr Rogers member Rogers also spoke on that um I don't know if that's relevant or not but chy do you want to address that so the best practice is to have a a succinct very short summary of what happened the minutes are supposed to reflect who is there um what motions were made and who voted those are the primary components of the minutes that need to be kept any additional details can be included but are not required um and we do generally keep them as brief as possible because that is how they're intended to be drafted we do have the the meeting on YouTube right so they're public record and um you know the minutes are to be decapsulate the highlights we discussed that like I said four or five years ago and we agreed that we're getting too long but I understand what you mean I do understand that any more questions about the minutes or is that a motion I I move that we approve the minutes is there a second sure is second any discussion roll call please Lori member faon yes member child's yes secretary Grant yes member Moscoso yes member Rogers yes member Gad yes chairman Richardson yes Chelsea would you cover the quide judicial confirmation procedures I don't think there's quide judicial on the agenda tonight but um no there is not but I will feel I would be happy to read the notice on the agenda all persons who anticipate speaking on any public hearing item must fill out an oath card to be heard on that agenda item and sign the oath contained thereon these cards are located on the table near the entrance to the council chamber or may be obtained from the recording secretary this meeting will be conducted in accordance to the procedures adopted in resolution number 24-1 1997 those speaking in favor of a request will be heard first those opposed will be heard second and those who wish to make a public comment on the item will speak third the appli may make a brief or bottal if necessary a representative from either side for or against May cross-examine a witness anyone who speaks is considered a witness if you have photographs sketches or documents that you desire for the commission to consider they must be submitted into evidence and will be retained by the city please submit such exhibits to the recording secretary okay I feel to mention are you ready to swear in I am the new alternate okay Mr fendler would you like to join me at the podium there's a long oath of office here don't be afraid please repeat after me I state your name I Michael fendler do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support that I will support protect and defend protect and defend the Constitution the con Constitution and government and government of the United States of the United States and the State of Florida and the State of Florida against all enemies against all enemies domestic or foreign domestic or foreign and that I will bear and I will bear true Faith true Faith loyalty and Allegiance loyalty and allegiance to the same to the same and that I am entitled and that I am entitled to hold office to hold office under the Constitution under the Constitution that I will Faithfully perform that I will Faithfully perform all of the duties all the duties of the office of the office of the Planning and Zoning Commission of the Planning and Zoning Commission of the city of Titusville of the city of Titusville on which I am about to enter of which I'm about to enter so help me God so help me God there you are thank you very much you're now an official alternate member of the Planning and Zoning commission welcome great I told you that oath was going to be long it's about three times as long as if you're were president of the United States okay we don't have any old business new business item 9A Eddie thank you chairman and good evening Commissioners this is item 9A easement vacate application number 1 2024 for 300 Cheney Highway um the applicant has requested this item to be tabled to the March 20th um meeting and so I can give the summary if you'd like or um you can consider the whether you'd like to table this item to the March 20th meeting can do the summary in four minutes like the vice mayor should to the other day that was a good challenge yeah um just real quick um so let's see here the applicant is requesting to vacate the southeast portion of the 50- foot public utility and drainage easement within the rear yard on the property located at 300 Cheney Highway this is at Cheney and the railroad tracks the property the northwest corner there and uh the reason to table is because the condition that vacated the RightWay that existed in this area included a condition that an easement be recorded in place of the right away that was vacated however that condition was never satisfied and so in order for us to vacate the easement we need the easement to be recorded first and I know that's a lot of words but basically this is the the natural First Step before we can vacate this evening any questions the staff Mr Honeycut do you want to address the pnz any questions of Mitchell Honeycut anyone uh yes M Rogers but no I'm sorry anyone care to make a motion that that item be tabled I move we table I move that we table this item is there a second second do we need a Time definite yes please uh when when do that you March 20th do you think that's doable that's our next meeting so it's it could be a tight timeline but at the very least if needed we could table again if the recording documents are not ready by then okay but the benefit to doing a Time certain is that the applicant doesn't have to repay for advertising fees because the motion included that it would be tabled to that specific meeting date okay is that going to be part of your motion to March 20th yes yes I move that we table it until March 20th okay roll call please Lori member Gad yes member Childs yes member Moscoso yes secretary Grant yes member Rogers yes member faon yes chairman Richardson yes okay next item is soil amendment ordinance thank you chairman um item 9B soil amendment ordinance begins on page 32 of 50 on September 28 2021 the city council directed staff to review trees and commercial parking lots including soil that is used soil amendments may be required for plant viability in some areas that have imported fill soils or have been impacted by Paving the ordinance requires a soil amendment when when determined by a qualified representative uh the change is there are two changes in this ordinance the first is on page 35 on page 35 subsection 4 you'll see the underlined language that's being added to the existing code in red and it says in areas that have import fill soils or have been impacted by Paving soil amendment may be required for plant viability as determined by a qualified representative of the city in the second change that same language is also added on page 36 in a different section of the code and then the second change is page 37 adding a definition for what is a soil amendment and you you'll see on page 37 that includes things like water retention permeability water infiltration drainage ation and structure so if if it were the case that a landscape contractor were placing um a new tree into a landscape Island for example if the soil was very uh Sandy or full of limestone chunks that would not be suitable for um new plants to grow uh this would give our site inspectors the ability to correct the issue on site and say um we need some additional Organics or we need something added to the soils to improve the quality for this tree to survive that's it any questions let's see member moso yeah um I asked um Christie this question as well but um would this um go before the Tec and um and if not what is the process for something like this to go before the Tec so the commission could make a recommendation that Council consider sending the item to tec before Council makes a decision that would be the process you'd add it to your recommendation um this has not gone to the Tec the um this is something that our field inspectors when they're out on the site they can qualitatively tell the soil is inappropriate and then recommend some soil amendments that would address the what if it's the permeability rate and something like that so it's less of studying the environmental conditions of the city but it certainly it could be seen that way thank you yeah I didn't feel like this item should go personally but I was just curious what that process would be if we come across something um if we can be told um in advance if it's been I guess you would tell us if it's been seen by the Tec or if it's going to be going back thank you member Rogers I had the same thought um but I did want to ask um Eddie you know I I I wonder if this goes far enough because you what I what I heard uh recently about what happened at is it Brookshire um over on uh garden and yeah um about how or technically that the the soil was not Disturbed around these kind of giant oak trees but Phil was put into a height of 10 feet in some places and basically made kind of Little Pond areas where you know when rain came you know it puddled and pulled um around the base of these of these old Live Oaks and I think the majority if not all of them were lost basically due to to that to that reason I mean is there some sort of standard for that um that I mean it's not just it's not enough to just have you know the proper soil I mean if it's if the drainage has been altered in a detrimental way I guess I'm I'm just wondering is is there more that should be added to this this section is specific to Landscaping so this would be like like a parking Island in a landscape the Landscaping in a parking Island okay so new Landscaping not existing vegetation correct is there something that that talks in in in the codes about I don't know like not about the drainage area around roots of of trees that are supposed to stay uh there's a root protection zone I'm not sure if that that answers your question but there is a certain distance from the um trunk of the tree where the area not supposed to be impacted whether that's driving over with heavy machinery that would compact the soil and my impression is that that was followed it's just that the problem was that you know they basically put these trees in Bulls and then when the rain came and they filled with water and then they you know they're not cypress trees they're Live Oaks and then they didn't survive but I just U seems like we'd be nice if we could avoid that any other questions of the staff I'll open the public hearing Andor do we have any cards oh excuse me Schoolboard member hi um I was wondering under the section 30-33 standards on page 34 where it says number one native vegetation is preferred and encouraged to be drought tolerant can we get stronger language in there to actually you know again require that there's a native re vegetation or some percentage of it good question uh this ordinance is specifically about amending soils and so that would be outside of what the advertising for this ordinance was if you felt like there was a need to make a change to that section of the code you could make a separate recommendation to council to consider changes to that section of the code and if the city council approves advisability then we could uh make changes to that section okay thanks any other questions Lorie do we have any cards no cards okay close the public hearing it comes back to us member Rogers U if um are does it have to be one of the regular members who if if that this recommended uh or this this idea of of beefing up the native vegetation language um May the school board member make a may she make a motion she can't okay but you can if anybody on the commission wants to make a change Amendment well I I I would recommend uh approval um with the what's the word caveat um that we should um strengthen the language to um to include a recommendation or requirement of 50% or greater native vegetation secretary Grant do you also agree that this should go back to tec member of moso it's my understanding that we're still working on that list with the Tec and so we're we're in process so um it might be the time it might not be the time but maybe Eddie could you give us an update on how that that is going with the Tec well first is there a second uh member Rogers motion I'll second it okay now go ahead with sorry could you give us an update of where they are with the Tec because I also had the same question um because it I I was wondering if it was referencing um a new list because we had this discussion before or if it's going to be the recommendation from the te sure the contractor has revised the the planting list and will be heard by TEC at their next meeting this month oh that's good I don't know if we'll have a recommendation from TC at that meeting but that's when it'll be brought back to them first hello um if I understood the motion correctly um actually could the secretary read the motion to me that was made um and summary it's to approve the soil amendment with the caveat of strengthening the language 50% or greater for Native plantings okay um so the 50% additional language I don't believe would be acceptable for this ordinance because that's not the scope of what the title of the ordinance has how it was advertised and so I don't think it would your I don't think your recommendation is would be allowed to be received by city council based on how the legal advertisement was put out to the public and so I don't want you to go down that path thinking that that's something that it could possibly be done that way and so perhaps you want to modify your motion or do something different sure uh I understand let me go through the lights first member Charles yeah I was just going to say I think we're covering that in the other in the native species list that's being modified right now I feel like and this refers to that it's kind of one of these things too is like why is it listed here too so it's like and should this just say you know um look at that list and maybe that's something we have to come back to but I think I think we should probably just just stick to this uh so Eddie you said that what they reference is that list that we have been talking about I when when they say see the list for um trying to see where it was a listing of said species is available for reference in the landscape technical manual it was the landscape technical manual specifically that we've been talking about with the correct okay member of God I was just going to add that we had a conversation regarding the future land use and that was as I mentioned kind of the cart with a horse and that it was noted that when I made the comment about adding some language to that was because that was an opportunity to see the comprehensive plans element talk about Native plannings as requirement and I think that's how the conversation went the problem was the cart was before the horse because the Landscaping code was under review forwarded to a tabling to go back to the Tec to be revised so now we've got the carts going to be discussed next week and the horse in this case the comprensive plan did have the that language put in it and I would suggest that what would be natural is codes and ordinances chapters and pages that don't correlate to that potential change dramatic change being requiring rather than recommending for native plants or and specifically putting percentiles on there for the number of native plants once that's established then all these sundry codes where you don't have that in there or you have some conflict would naturally be called back revised the language plugged in there which is another ordinance Amendment where you'd have the language publ publicized the intention is to change that one link as it would be so yes that's exactly where we're got is kind of the cart and the horse are getting together at different stages okay so do you withdraw your motion I will withdraw my I withdraw my motion you're withdraw your second no choice okay you want to make another motion anyone I'll make a mo a motion that we uh recommend approval to city council for uh agenda item 9B for soil amendment ordinance as uh as presented by staff second seconded by member Gad any other discussion remember Rogers you still got your L roll call please Lori secretary Grant yes member Rogers yes member facon yes member Childs yes member Gad yes member Moscoso yes chairman Richardson yes this will be heard when I caught you get you got me I wasn't prepared for that March 26 2024 okay next item 9 C page on to item 9C golden knights Boulevard ordinance page 38 of 50 on February 11th 2020 the staff requested advisability and the city council approved direction to address increased development interest in land surrounding the Space Coast Regional Airport much of which is zoned industrial M2 as M2 allows the most intense uses in the city staff requested an opportunity to review Land Development regulations to ensure that Industrial Development in the areas of the airport is compatible with Aviation related uses and promotes an attractive Gateway into the City and the airport the draft ordinance imposes a 50-ft landscape buffer and building setback for property zoned M2 that are adjacent to Golden Knights Boulevard on uh page 41 the change is clarifying the setback so the 50 Foot is applied to the building setback so no portion of any building on those sites could be closer than 50 feet to Golden kns Boulevard and then on page 42 is where we add it to the landscape buffer in the landscape buffer uh you couldn't have anything like a parking area or accessory structure those well accessory structure like a shed would be a building so the building setback would apply but um typically the building setback only applies to the building uh there are other structures on the site like the storm water retention or uh if it were liid feature or uh the parking that could be within the the building setback but not within the landscape buffer so I guess to summarize what I'm trying to say is we added the 50 Foot requirement to the building setback and the landscape buffer so that there's a maintained 50 foot of Green Space along golden knights Boulevard to maintain that aesthetic and that condition came about when the uh concrete recycling facility was requesting a conditional use permit at the intersection of golden knights Boulevard and the railroad the northwest corner and um when Council approved that conditional use permit they approved it with a condition that a 50ft um buffer be in place on that property to preserve the Aesthetics and so this was our opportunity to take that condition and apply it to the other industrial properties along golden knights Boulevard of which there are only two others and they're both on the south side of golden knights Boulevard and currently undeveloped any questions uh Mr let's see Mr facon no question you had your Li on member grod I had a question uh after speaking with with Eddie earlier in the week the um typical lot pattern uh notably that when you have notes and footnotes and development standards sometimes I get overlooked by somebody that goes through a lot of work to submit a plan and go oops I didn't see the note I was wondering if it may be helpful to add an additional on the typical lot pattern under the Guides of typical lot pattern on Golden Knight's Boulevard so you illustrate that right in front of your eyes it might be helpful as opposed to seeing one day that won't be in red it'll be in black and somebody might not catch that it could be helpful are you suggesting like a an illustration a graphic just add a second you got a large area that I would think you could just add a second illustration illustrating typical lot pattern goldenite Boulevard and show that setback illustration in the same manner you did that that would be kind of helpful for folks not to be able to say I didn't see the footnote in the development standards down the page sure that's that's a potential any other questions Mr Rogers uh Eddie um just to be clear um so the the 50 ft 50 foot setback only applies to the front of the building the one that is on Golden Knights Boulevard it's not it's not from the the left and right and and rear that's correct okay any other questions this point I'll open the public hearing L we have any cards yes Roger Muller no when the lights on yeah that do it Roger mol 5417 River Edge Drive so so it's a 50ft setback but can they put their uh uh retention pond on that 50 foot the code says that Retention Ponds are not permitted within a landscape buffer unless it's an liid feature so if they were to low impact development so if they were to propose a bios Swale for example which combines storm water retention with some type of vegetation then they could have a storm water system in the in the landscape buffer so our objective is to put a visual barrier between somebody driving down yes sir but does that allow with the retention parameters that you just described to allow a visual sight line across that 50 ft so can you see across the you said there's no retention Pond can go there unless and what was the unless again unless the uh applicant is proposing low impact development so a low impact development is a it's a decentralized style of storm water development uh storm water management technique that uses rain Gardens bios swes decentralized ponds with vegetation and the idea was when Council approved the liid ordinance was to to provide some flexibility on sites if if applicants are willing to go this route because it's uncon it's it's different from the conventional storm water system of just a pond um that in essence because plants are being planted within the the storm water feature it serves as a buffer because it's going to have it's going to have landscaping that's going to block The View and so if they were proposing a standard Basin with no uh just Turf uh that could not be permitted within within the 50ft landscape but buffer so we don't have any way though to it's kind of subjective what's Visual and what isn't we don't have any way to say that there you absolutely can't see a big pile of concrete back there when you drive down golden knights Boulevard we don't have anything to do that do we no so it doesn't it doesn't U guarantee that there will be opaque uh vegetation um but that's with our current buffers we have a minimum number of trees and shrubs that have to be planted within a buffer but that also doesn't guarantee uh 100% opaqueness from the right of way to the the property but it is intended to break up that that visual break it up uh Kevin DH is with me he's the director of the airport Authority out there and I'm on the board of the authority and we were hoping that it would that it would eliminate any visual impact that a big pile of concrete Rubble might have and I'm not too sure that we've done that and because they they also cannot build a concrete wall across there can they across that um a wall can be used in place of a of a screen as a screening technique one of the conditions that uh with the concrete crushing facility was not just a 50- foot landscape buffer but also a fence adjacent to it so that would guarantee 100% opacity um and maybe that's something the board would want to consider yeah and I would request that I mean I I think that I my our objective was to try when people drive into our airport we want it to seem happy and exciting and not a big pile of rubble that's waiting to be crushed and I don't think we've accomplished that with the terminology that we've used so I'm asking that we come up with something that allows us to have a absolute visual barrier on at least the high intensity M2 uses like a crush plat that's all I have thank you any other cards no sir okay this point I'll close the public hearing and it comes back before the commission uh um Eddie do you have anything to add to what just took place um not necessarily I would just say that if approved as written this would require a 50ft stretch of natural vegetation um that's not to say that when invasives are removed if there's a lot of Brazilian pepper which we do require those to be removed that that would then open up the site for visual access and so if you if the board wanted consider adding to this ordinance that not just a u distance a buffer or setback that also some type of opaque screening be required um I'd have to ask Chelsea about whether the ordinance was ad was you know advertised in a way that would allow that or if we have to tweak that somehow because the intent is to get it this this uh visual impact and so I could see where that could tie in I think that probably you could expand upon the drafted language with the existing title because you're just amending the required landscape yards and the visual bu buffer and screening requirements and I don't think what is being discussed goes beyond the scope of what's advertised member fa uh any um how many M2 zones do we have in the city currently how many properties are the city or zoned M2 I mean not many properties not properties exact number if if I'm not mistaken this this will cover all m2s all m2s correct no no this this would only apply along Golden Gates or not golden gates golden knights Boulevard in front of the airport rock yeah the title is limited to property zoned M2 AB budding golden knights Boulevard okay thank you member Charles I was I mean that's a good point I mean the buffer is for you know hiding stuff but could we instead of like just saying that everyone has to do it if if there is a visual yeah I don't know how that would be written like if you can see the building from from the street as a as a normal car or person standing there then you require that that fencing or whatever some sort of barrier there but I don't know how that would exactly be wor it but cuz I don't want to like impact you know you you have these trees that are blocking it and they have to have this fence there that's an extra cost for them I I wouldn't want to do that just we just need to make sure that they you know if they are taking advantage of the liid which we want them to um that they would have a barrier there if uh you can see from the street the building or or the activities back there but I don't know how that would would be worded though but any thoughts member Rogers would would this uh apply to um to businesses that are already there or is it simply for the last remaining two lots that are undeveloped there are two properties that are currently undeveloped that this would apply to okay um they're currently developed undeveloped s undeveloped but the others would not change I mean these would these because the others will be like they are if the others were to come in for a new site plan then the code would apply okay and um I haven't actually seeing the the cement plant I know it kept everybody here really late one time but um is you gentleman's goal is I mean is is that that is the thing that you do not want to see ever again is it is it pretty bad visually I mean I haven't I would like to just interrupt and take this opportunity to let you all know that the site development permit did EXP expire in December for that facility and so they will need to reapply to move forward oh interesting it was uh when it was going to be a crush plant if you can imagine we broke up a big parking lot and we pile the concrete out there waiting for the crusher to come by and it was my understanding that they were going to use a mobile Crusher that would come they have seven or eight sites around the United States I believe so every 3 months they might come in with that Crusher and crush up all those concrete chunks into 3/4 inch Stone and we didn't want to have a big ugly pile of concrete there waiting for that Crusher to come by it was that's kind of was our objective in trying to find a way to put a visual barrier up some kind and uh sorry so that pilot is still there no no no they didn't they never got a permit true and so they never started out okay that that they bought the land they proposed to put a crushed plant in there when the when the hearings went up we said wait a minute that's really going to be ugly for us here at the airport that that M2 zoning probably was put there because of the railroad tracks but I we we just wanted to have a visual barrier for that Crush plant but M2 zoning there's other very very heavy industrial uses for M2 zoning and it might be some other thing that is very visually unappealing sure and I just wanted to see if there wasn't any some way to put up a barrier on if you gentlemen with your your connection to and your interested in the airport um could wave your magic wands what would you love to see as a kind of a perfect sort of solution I mean just nothing but trees nothing but walls nothing but I was sitting there thinking but what would I do if uh the burden was put on me well if if we could somehow I don't know if you can or not Define what landscape plantings have to be in this particular situation it might be podocarpus because it gets pretty dense and it you can you can trim it at any height that you tell them they have to keep it trimmed at and it looks pretty it's a it's a it's foliage and uh the the uh absolute barrier would be a concrete block wall but I don't like that and I don't think other people like that but I thought there might be some kind of foliage that we could come up with that in you know kind of really defines opaqueness so you're not necessarily looking for sort of multi-layer multispecies you know kind of landscaping type you just at least a green wall would be sufficient for right and then if there was some uh other species that could be planted in and amongst that and make a nice planter bed let's call it a planter bed just but one strip that is poto carpus that is pretty uh opaque and your associate sir do you have anything to add to that you'll have to state your name and address for the record I'm Kevin Dy 51 Bristo way uh the tville Coco Airport Authority director um we support this I support exactly what Mr molor was saying um at the airport Authority we've spent millions of dollars improving golden kns and um bringing in new tenants all the time and again the last thing we really wanted to see was the you know the concrete crushing plant so uh we appreciate Eddie and everything you guys have done and appreciate your consideration member Gad I I had two questions is there by chance any correlation between all of the concrete crushing that took place with the Demolition of the NASA Causeway Bridges it's still taking place and the proximity to the airport uh is there any relationship possibly that the concrete crushing proposal was tied to what took place otherwise on site where the bridge is it seems seems like time and correlation kind of seems interesting to me there may have been speculation preparation that get the job close and they got the job even closer inside the RightWay the second question is all the discussion is about the adverse impact of the visibility of a storage art whether it's a Concrete pile or a pile of metal cars it's a storage art so wouldn't it be possible that in the same Vein on Golden kns Boulevard as a focus point you would take a look at the ordinance that governs where you see storage areas within properties developed in M2 so that you preclude those storage areas being front of the building or that they Define them as being in the rear yard as opposed to the front yard so that you use the buildings and Facilities themselves as buffers like a business office in the back of the houses up against the railroad tracks but that would take an amendment to a different code correct well I don't know the the answer to the code question but as far as relocating to the rear that is a possibility however in the case of the concrete crushing facility there really wasn't a large structure proposed most of the site was proposed to be used for uh the outdoor storage so the landscape buffer is used to push that that outdoor storage area further back from the rideway with the hopes that the landscape buffer would then screen you've got the distance and then you've got the Landscaping would be enough I did want to recommend to suggestion to the commission if you wanted to add something that added more of a an opaque buffer um we do have in our section uh 30- 339 to our visual buffer and screening requirements I'll just read them real quick it says a screen refers to a visual barrier designed to separate differing land jues and to remove service Base outdoor storage and handling areas and trash receptacles from view a screen shall be a continuous hedge or a solid wood or masonry wall fence an earth burn may be used in concert to achieve a portion of the required height said screen shall be a minimum of 6 feet in height in the case of a hedge it must me it must reach the required height and provide a continuous 100% opaque screen within 6 months of installation so if you wanted to add a connection to this section of the code that would require an opaque uh 100% opaque hedge along the the ride of way within the landscape buffer so you could approve the um the ordinance as written with the modification that uh a screen as described in section 30- 339 be required within this 50- foot landscape buffer uh member Gad that's a good point and you mentioned burms um it um those facilities like kind storage yards as I mentioned earlier um sometimes the preference for buffers isn't to have Landscaping planted at reason pres ably short Heights anticipating rapid growth that would cover something maybe before we all quit breathing um to enhance the visibility buffer is sometimes considered limiting the type of buffer you use in that intense industrial zoning District on Golden kns Boulevard to be a burm then Define the height of the burm and then require the Landscaping be uh provided on the burm comes to mind to take a look at the Parish Medical Center where they installed a a four foot berm from grade and then they put um one of these grass plants I can't remember the species but within weeks you couldn't see the third story of the building on the ground level which successfully buffered the building and that kind of technique is in my opinion better serving your visual buffer than to allow a fence to be a choice or uh gosh forbid a concrete wall that just starts to look pretty bad too and and those BMS can combined with Landscaping really do provide not just a visual buffer but also a sound insulating buffer because it's taking the noise Contours and cutting it off at the ground not that an Airport's worried about noise but uh it's one of the attributes of BMS uh and that's something that I would certainly suggest be considered that it don't don't offer too many different options for burms if what you're trying to do is hide it if you're trying to hide it burms and Landscaping the top that in a 50- foot open space would would do a long shot getting where you're trying to get to I would think member Rogers I was just going to say I have to agree I was thinking um I was liking your ideas on on you know green Walls and you know living walls and I wasn't liking the idea Robert Frost said um something that is that does not love a wall and I would agree with that um so it be it'd be nice if I I like your recommendation here of of connecting that to to the 30 339 um but I I agreed I almost kind of want to take the little wall section out um with agree with me Rod um I it seems to me that if you're trying to preserve a good experience going in and out of the airport that plants are better than the cement blocks member Charles and there's like a there's a burn there at Ty Landing right there on the Harrison and and Hopkins right yeah yeah that's what you're talking I was thinking I was thinking when you were saying it but yeah there's Parish there okay yeah uh that looks that does look nice um uh you said 30- 339 is in in what if that's in the that's a code it describes the visual buffer and screening requirements and it's located in subdivision three that describes landscape buffers okay um yeah go ahead m g um so in the context of this ordinance with this note provided for the increased open space and the comment that you could utilize retention provided by the liid design that that 50 foot has to be landscaped I asked Eddie this earlier is that going to allow parking lots in that area or just landscape would it be within the boundaries of this amendment if the note was to include that along Golden Nights Boulevard you limit the visual buffer to be a landscape burn and that the planting schedule already exists what plants and what number of plants and Center on trees and Port A carpus or some other decorative hedge but that would be a requirement of improvement to the visual B visual burm um that would enhance its height and do so just picking a number out of my experience six foot Earth and berm is going to take another 50 ft to build it because you have to have a slope you can manage it and that's just something to ask can that be done in that 50 foot landscape area I would like to just chime in a suggestion thought that I've had as you all are discussing potential changes to this ordinance it might be best for everyone if you were to eventually make a motion to suggest tabling to allow the staff to come back with a revised version because if you're suggesting different language you'll have to see it before you approve it anyway or you would probably want to see it before you vote on the approval of the modified language that is not being presented before you so if you'd like and this is just a suggestion you don't have to go this way but you could suggest approval modification denial of any ordinance you could modify how it's presented and S Suggest with a tabling that t staff modify it and bring it back to you you could suggest denial because it doesn't meet certain criteria and then it would start all over over again or you could recommend approval and so those are just some thoughts to consider Eddie do you have any comment about tabling no okay anyone care to make a motion of any kind anyone have any further questions my head in there m gr I I appreciate that advice I think that's probably the best performance of trying to create a better visual buffer to give the staff an opportunity to look at some of the design parameters you're going to deal with like I mentioned about management of BMS and their height in their area and quite frankly it would seem it would be very compatible with the intention that if in that 50 foot the option was within the 50 Foot on Golden kns Boulevard you have to develop a six- foot burm visual burm within the landscape area and of course landscape it when you're doing those two things together you would go a long way to I think result in your concern to the point it's maybe lipstick on a pig but it's it's better than no lipstick at all so I would motion we uh we uh table this thing and let staff kind of come back with a a visual look at what you could do in that 50 foot to enhance visual buffering member Rogers slightly off topic but I was just thinking I don't know occasionally of late I've been uh a bit disillusioned about some of the work that we do here um but I do find it uh heartening that we have these two gentlemen with an interest in something in the community who have come here tonight and stated their concerns and those concerns made sense and we have listened to those and people have added their own background knowledge and opinions and I think possibly we will get something better than we would have had and I I thank you for your Civic mindedness and your and your assistance and so you're seconding the motion and I second the motion any further discussion one comment if I may I we need a date specific so I would motion to table it for 30 days till the is that enough time Edie or 60 if you need more time um I don't know that it needs to be date certain well I guess the city did pay the since there's no applicate applicant in this case um it's not like an applicant's on hold for having to pay that the advertising fee again but the city would have to advertise again if we tabled it without a date certain so to so I would say the first meeting in April would give staff sometime to review proposed changes based on this meeting's discussion um if you want to choose that date that works what's the date April 3rd April oh my birthday well you get the balloon we'll pass the balloon around okay I'll Flo that idea you good do you amend your motion yes I amend it to table it to April 3D I second am okay Miss moso okay any other any other discussion Lori M call please member fac yes member Moscoso yes member Gad yes member Rogers yes member Childs yes secretary Grant yes chairman Richardson yes and uh this will it still come before Council and they'll see that we recommended tabling that's correct city council scheduled for March 26th uh I'll add to this um Chelsea and uh City attorney broom and I had a discussion today and one of the items was we want to make sure that the reasons that pnz states that something be done is relayed to Council in the case of the gas station on the corner of I95 and Garden Street are it involved a screening in the buffer our condition was not adequately given to council so we want to make sure the communication between you and Brad Parish the entire staff is clear okay next item is development review ordinance item 9d Eddie yes sir item 9d development review fee ordinance the city of Titusville offers a number of significant services to its residents business owners and visitors for which it charges fees that should be commensurate with the costs incurred by the city to perform the services the city will offer an expedited review service for site plans as completed by artificial intelligence AI for an addition for an additional fee is charged by the city's contractual AI review firm the draft ordinance proposes an additional fee of $1,000 and don't have anything really to add to that thank you um I have one question for you so it doesn't raise any of the other fees it just establishes this expedited review fee correct correct yes sir and who is this expedited contractual contractual AI review it's not China the company's name is Auto the company's name is autoreview AI yeah and that's part of uh as was explained by May by Brad that's part of the University of Florida I understand yes okay and we're asking them to pay the amount we have to pay there's no upch charge correct okay questions member Charles yeah I think when I asked on the phone not you but um Chris what was her name Christine or Chris Christine Anders christe Anderson Christie Christie Christie I always get those Christina Christin I always get them mixed up um and my name's Christopher so you know um I think I asked her this but you can verify but um uh this is only when they ask for an expedit review and they have the option of doing the AI a review um or is it is it all expedited reviews or is this their option of we can either do it expedited and here's the cost or we can't do it expedited but if you do want it expedited we can do it through this program this gives the applicant the opportunity to apply for an expedited review with the use of AI have a separate expedited review that does not just for the just all expedited reviews and um and I was talking to I'm a I'm a software developer and i' I've worked with AI and it can be kind of crazy sometimes times and uh inaccurate but and I know this is a pilot I love it I love that you that you're you're um brave enough to do it because it might cause more problems than it helps at first there's there could be a little learning curve of what you have to look for of course but um I think it's I think it's great that we're moving in that direction because um but just just be careful because it's uh I mean I've had straight up it lie to me I've had AI just lot I've asked him about I just testing it out for tville city code I was like tell me the ordinance tell me if there's a fine for XYZ and it made up it made up an ordinance out of nowhere I looked it up I was like that's not even a real number and I told it that I said this is not even a real number is said oh I'm sorry here's another number just made up another number anyway do we have any hidden ordinances so so just uh yeah just uh review it as much as you can at first but it I think it'll speed it up after a while but it might be a little bit of learning curve at first but remember Rogers I don't share member child's enthusiasm although I do share his caution and uh times 100 I'm pretty sure that AI is is the Beast and the mark of um all rolled into one um I just you know I know there's I know zip about about computer programming but I do know you know garbage in garbage out and um the I just I really worry that this kind of thing is ripe for gaming and ripe for I don't know tweaking and such a way that someone who benefits um gets a rubber stamp approval simply because I don't know the computer so that's how it is um is does this not have another set of eyes that goes over it um you know actual eyes not like scanner eyes absolutely I know you're nervous about the planners walking away and you're never seeing us again but we'll definitely still be involved in the review as far as um reconfirming the numbers and everything this is a tool to help expedite the review not to complete the review for us and so we'll be involved in the in the review process throughout remember M yeah I'm I'm personally excited about it um I just I have a few questions and so my question is um so what are some of the planning challenges that led you guys to seek the use of AI uh two things we noticed a lot of applicants ask for expediter review and this was a way to uh clarify or guarantee that there would be some type of expedite to the applications because we have this tool that can speed up the review if otherwise if we were just saying we'll review your same application we would have otherwise on an expedited time frame that become that has a lot of challenges in itself but this gives us a tool that helps us speed up the time frames so it's answering a call that we've received a lot from applicants and two is just some of these uh reviews just take a lot of time to review you're counting individual trees in a buffer you're looking at distances and and so if we could get something that would help summarize and point out the errors and then we can confirm uh that would help with our review times um because right now we are fully staffed but um there have been times where we haven't and it's been very challenging with the number of applic applications we've been receiving sure um my other question is what what is the current weight length for a um site plan review and how much faster will this be good questions I don't know the answers to those questions we could look at U we could ask our development services team if they have their report for uh site plan review time frames and then we don't know how long this uh expedited review is going to be we'll have to see because like member Charles mentioned there could be lots of things that go Haywire in the first few months or years even of trying this um and so it it may not save a whole lot of time up front um we'll have to just see how it goes yeah and um I don't know you guys should have received this I found this um very helpful it's about 40 pages but it's called Ai and planning by APA and it kind of answers um a lot of different questions and even some of the challenges that are um that will come up with it and so this was super helpful for me to understand um but I would ask as we continue if we continue with this process that that you could keep us informed even have a workshop on how this works because I think it would help at least me understand the process and to understand how it how things are being approved and um maybe be able to obviously I'm a bit skeptical but to um understand what's being inputed input so that it's coming up with these site plan reviews and so I I love the idea that it would help expedite things for you guys um in that in that way so thank you member Rogers will you sprinkle these reviews with holy water when you get them back um what if you get a review of a plan that says um that says yeah yeah this is good to go and everything's fine and then you you know you kind of glance at it and you say Okay looks okay and I don't know you've done it a few times and you trust the you trust the programming and then it turns out that it's gotten something badly wrong as member Charles was mentioning um what happens then does does the applicant you know maybe stuff's coming out of the ground or maybe it's about to and and the and says well you said it was okay um you know is there going to be some kind of an out where we say well this doesn't actually fit our code um you know okay we goofed or what happens then if a permit is issued an error um there would have to be corrective measures to make sure that it we couldn't final the CER the inspection until it meets the code and so yeah that it's possible oh yeah so that so then you would not be um Chelsea maybe this is for you too if you approved a plan and building goes forward based on that approved plan um and then we say oops it was a mistake um it doesn't fit the code and it has to it has to fit the code um then are we legally liable for you know whatever change expenses there are or or um quite honestly that's such a Nuance situation it would have to be answered in a case by case situation I'm sorry I couldn't give you a better answer than that okay sure um sh remember Charles I had one other question that I remembered um from the call but uh who who's going to load in because you're you have to load in like tville specific code and Land Development stuff and all all that stuff right is is there someone in the are you going to do it or who's I got I'm just curious like who's gonna no it's not it's not dependent not just one person it's all of our reviewers I'm just going to try to put in the data to that's specific to tville and stuff yeah and that's a big deal just set up set it up too I'm sure that's gonna I nominate member Charles what nothing all right yeah yeah if you do need any help I mean I I can I can help for sure um we've got to still have a public hearing is that correct yeah but uh Mike you can add it anytime if you have any questions as an engineer a propulsion engineer you might be interested in this well I I did actually have a question I was more Curious do we guarantee uh any kind of expediency with this if they were to pay the fee are we saying that like it has to be complete next number of days not in a term of number of days but we will guarantee that it will be faster than the conventional review okay and other the other question I had was where are we getting the thousand fee the figure from like how are we determining that and can that change in the future the if a do if this um if these development review fees are approved then the only way they could change in the future is if we bring a review fee back to council to make this change again um the Thousand fee came from the consultant that's the the amount they charge for this service um there's not a pass through fee that the city gets an additional x amount okay all right thank you at this time I'll open the public hearing do we have any cards Lori no cards okay I'll close the public hearing what would you like to do member Charles I make a motion that we recommend approval of the development review fee ordinance for AI is there a second uh member facon second okay any discussion m any discussion at all roll call please member Moscoso yes member Gad yes secretary Grant yes member child yes member facon yes member Rogers I'm again it no um chairman Richardson yes okay petitions or requests from the public pres there isn't any um reports before we get the reports um Mr finer did I pronounce it right yeah finer um would you give us a brief introduction about yourself and you got to realize commission members he's getting married this weekend oh my gosh oh well no no my bachelor part is this weekend I I getri bachor party this weekend yeah are we invited uh if you guys want to make the trip up to St Augustine sure would you just introduce yourself H yeah I'm Mike fendler I'm uh just recently uh well not just recently I moved to Titusville around three years ago bought a house in Verona I work at Kennedy Space Center for locky Martin uh doing uh working on the Artemis program um yeah that's kind of my simple background on me and um you got your degree from what Northern College I uh Penn State yeah P Pennsylvania State University welcome to the board where you from Mr F I'm originally from uh outside of Philadelphia report City staff thank you chairman um I just wanted to let the commission know that we are advertising for our upcoming meeting about the Canaveral Heights um changes to the comprehensive plan if you'll remember city council with the Titusville tomorrow program um agreed to separate the Canaveral Heights changes for additional public comment and so on March 28th at 5:00 p.m. at the uh Harry T Moore social Center 7:25 South Deon Avenue if you're interested learning more about the Redevelopment policies proposed specifically to The canaval Grove neighborhood west of uh downtown Titusville um we'll be having another public engagement uh opportunity then thank you okay and as far as your reports go you know this is the the first meeting that we had um calls from individual members from the staff and I think that went real well did it in your opinion Eddie absolutely thank you but I would caution and I think Chelsea's going to talk a little more about it that you don't make the staff a conduit for violation of the uh Sun Sunshine Law you you should avoid telling them you're for it or against it and I know that's hard you know I may have done that once When Brad called me on Monday I might have said I don't have a problem with it but you don't want to give put the staff in a position where they know how we're going to vote that it's all supposed to be public but just try to keep that to yourself any other reported no sir thank you Chelsea thank you as the chairman indicated earlier we did have a conversation earlier and part of that conversation incl uded bringing up another training that I would like to do with this group I do regularly provide quasa judicial legislative matter training and so I'd like to propose that at our next meeting I take away about 15 or 20 minutes of our regular agenda time as an agenda item so letting you know now that if you have any particular questions um or topics of discussion that you want me to cover you can let me know that in advance or be prepared to come with some questions for the meeting that I can discuss for the group um following up on the Conduit um I I do advise that you be open with your questions to the staff but not in a way that you portray your bias or um your decision making one way or another because we just don't want that to occur at any time prior to the hearing we do want you to take this opportunity to meet with staff as an opportunity to ask any questions on the agenda um it's your opportunity to dig deeper into any of these agenda items so that you can fully understand it before getting here so that you can understand what's being asked of you as a board member so you know what the task is if if you have any confusion that's your opportunity to get clarification uh yes and we have that Microsoft teams don't we yeah so it's not a team effort but you can call in and discuss that face to face um and I think it went very well did the commission feel that way I see a bunch of heads noting okay I just had a question if I may go ahead um Chelsea has this been done before or is this something brand new what uh just you know calling and talking to staff before the pnz meetings it's definitely been done before oh okay yeah chair person I as I said I had a conversation today with Chelsea and Richard broom I think it went real well it took about 40 minutes and um we shared a lot of ideas and um that's all I have to say except I would say my birthday was yesterday and I'd tell you one thing this balloon will be passed and I think you're the next one me member gr kind of looks like you Saturday your birthday Saturday yes well take the balloon home and share it with you how's your how's the kid okay any member reports yes Mr fa just want to let everybody know uh typically at work I do the national day and I want to let everybody know that today is National Oreo Dayal Oro you bring okay so there's a big old party pack in my car I do have a party back in the car Mr grud I was just going to advise the members that in following the suit follow prior to this the uh thousand friends of Florida will broadcast a wrap up of the legislative session uh I think it's next week I don't know the exact date but if you've seen that I know that you all were able to send that out to the other members to let them have the link so they may be able to watch it because things are stirring around not stirring around so who knows where it all stops when the when the chair race around the room stops yeah there are all kinds of uh talk about in the legislature about changing the live local act and it should be changed we knew it wasn't going to last yeah and um will you keep us informed about that because you have the experience I'll send the webinar link to the members anything else anybody add one anything else I have a question before we had a Tec rep on our uh board here on our panel here now we don't have one how will we what I'm trying to I'm can I phrase this how can we have the same type of uh communication we as we had before before we had two Mr Mr rice and Mr pz how can we have the same type of communications that with the Tec that we had before we don't have someone who's on our board not that I want to be there I not I I think this young lady down here would be perfect but no you don't want to be volent told no um council member Nelson um indicated to me that she would like Mr grod not not a voting member but the Aon with the Tec and I haven't had a chance to discuss it with him because it would be a violation but how do you feel I hate to put you on the spot yes I just want to caveat this discussion that a liaison would not be an official member of it would not he would have no different responsibilities or weight than a citizen going to the Tec member but then coming here he would be able to report on the activities that he observed at Tec but he wouldn't be able to um Vote or have any sort of member capacity you could ask a question like a member of the citizen of the community could always do so yes I'd like to interrupt but this time I'm actually serious uh I was just before you answer memor grat um I've actually had a little bit of interest in doing this myself I know Miss moso has maybe had a bit of interest uh Mr grod possibly has a bit of interest you know we're all busy doing this and it takes a while to read what we have to read thank God for a 50 pager tonight oh my God this fabulous good job yeah but but I was just going to say might we just kind of do a rotating schedule of three or four different members and kind of share the load that way and then everybody can always come is that a bad idea so my suggestion is just that whoever goes it's completely voluntary more than one of you can go and attend and sit in on the Tec there needs not to be an obligation from pnz that a one individual is responsible for that I just say this so that you know you can attend you can also view Tec on YouTube now because that is now being recorded it's every other meeting but it's still better than it was before um and the other thing you can do is complete an application for the Tec to fill in as a member in the event that any one of the existing members no longer continues you can have your application on file for such time to have Council consider you being appointed to fill that dual will role since there's No Vacancy on either board at this time that would be a path forward mosa yeah I would say I I did apply just to um update everyone but um I was told by member Nelson that I needed to have a science background which I do not oh well yeah any other discussion well I I'll be honest with you I was looking forward to taking this balloon home and tying it to my pinky that's the only thing on my hand I can't get straight and sleeping with it and maybe it straighten it out but it I'll pass along to you and this needs to be passed along every time so you would have to bring it to the April 3rd meeting to TI to member garage chair thank you member mus go so you started the uh the chocolates when you're first first way pointed pointed and you're starting the balloons it's a woman's touch I I'll make no comment on that okay at this point the meeting is now adjourned