good afternoon everybody like to welcome you to our meeting at this time I ask you to stand and salute the flag and cite the pledge to the flag of the United States of America to the republ stands one nation God indivisible andice for all God help us this meeting is in is convened in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings Act of New Jersey let the official minutes reflect that adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by publishing in notice in the Asbury Park Press on Monday February 12th 2024 The Star Ledger and also posting same on the town hall bulletin board for such notices and filing same with the Township Clerk this meeting was also posted on the township web page councilman scoi here councilman lamb here councilman lman here councilman ion here councilman quinis here Council vice president OU here council president Coleman here as president of the council I have been given the responsibility of conducting a professional organized meeting without interruptions in that regard the following procedures will be used a total of 90 per ordinance will be allotted for public comment to be given when 85 minutes have passed the council clerk will raise his hand with five fingers indicating there are five minutes left when the five minutes have passed he will give the cut sign to me at which time I'll ask for a vote to close the public portion of the meeting concerning the ordinance being discussed the 90 minutes will include any Mass Outburst any individual who do not show respect for the individual who has the floor by interrupting will be given a warning and will be remove removed from the room if the interruptions continue this goes for Council Members as well as the public I'm confident 90 minutes for each ordinance if needed will be sufficient to hear the positions and concerns of all I suggest when called on to speak please come right to the point which will allow more opportunities for speakers to express themselves thank you this time the mayor would like to have the floor for a few minutes [Music] mayor as I'm sure you've all heard the township is experienced an emergency medical crisis we cannot stand idly by while residents are waiting up to 30 minutes for an ambulance by not backfilling the retirement of two desk positions the township will have the money it needs to hire eight EMTs this will put another ambulance on the road 24 hours a day 7 days a week no one is getting fired and all the money from the retiring captains is going right back into the police department for many years Captain deputy chief Delan has supervised four lieutenants after these two Captain's retire Chief little will be responsible for supervising the remaining three lieutenants I'm confident that the chief has the ability to supervise those three lieutenants thank you thank you mayor Mr Coleman president Coleman sir I raise a question of order this meeting is taking place pursuant uh to section 5.7 B for special meetings is that correct okay council president did you receive a written request from mayor rodri calling for this meeting okay did any of the other council members receive written requests count email sorry count email uh I would assume about a special meeting about special meeting okay that's one good um as a written request was not received by most of these uh by a majority of the members uh it violates the town code and I move that we adjourn I'll second it call for a vote a motion to I'm sorry adjourn the meeting adjourn the meeting a motion to adjourn the meeting was made by councilman quinlisk and was seconded by councilman Sosi councilman quinlisk yes councilman Sosi just like the Zoom meeting this meeting is totally illegal so I vote Yes councilman lamb no councilman lman no councilman nerson no counc vice president otoul no council president Coleman no we're going to move to the minutes from the regular meeting on January 31st 2024 sorry minutes I'm sorry I have more I'm not done with the statement I think that's enough for right now we want to move on to the ordinances thank you Jim there was a firstent out of order sir you not been called on was the state in the letter Council M there was there was a motion made on just no you don't Council lamb not sir you do not have the floor Jim sit down please provide a copy of letter please sit down Jim noted made a motion to approve the minutes from January 31st 2024 is there a set forth that second the minutes stated in this letter [Applause] I move we need a second on the I move to table a second table any item not listed in this letter as per section 5.7 forth not only stating the letter to be addressed at the meeting Council lman and no other business shall be considered this is lman this corner of order is Township I would like to have this councilman removed from the room please [Applause] officer I I think we should just let let let councilman quillis speak councilman quillis we we we'll give councilman the may I you're right it's not my meeting but I think we should allow him to speak although it's out of order it's not out of order because if it's done at the end of the meeting it's a moot point go ahead make make your statement all right so to I moved to table items any items uh not listed in the letter that only George lman got as per section 5.7b uh um set forth that only the reason stated in the letter to be addressed in the meeting and no other business shall be considered so this meeting cannot happen David I make a motion we adjourn again I'll second it for the reason that motion is out of order it is already it already been moved and voted on it cannot be moved again I'm sorry what was your motion was made and this is a different this is different you made a motion to adjourn you're you or that motion was voted on now you are moving to adjourn again is this a legal meeting based on 5.7 B if it's not a legal meeting we have to adjourn so where is Council on this one somebody please tell me because I don't make this up Council has already spoken on the motion to adjourn the meeting we're on item is it legal is the question am I wrong in in 5.7 Bay am I wrong in that so what do we do if I'm correct sir no offense what do we do if you believe it can't go to the next step if this is an illegal motion if you believe that the meeting is illegal then you can resort to your illegal challenges take aess research it the right thing that's reason there was no proper notices given sure there was nobody received proper notice nobody received a copy of the schedule if there wasn't notice how are everybody how is everybody here that's hey Jim Jim give us a break give us a break Jim and Dave give us a break council president you knew just as much as everybody else this was taking place let's be adults there's a legal procedure that should be followed it's not an option legal procedure just cuz I knew that Dan was going to throw a meeting in in the middle of the work day on Valentine's Day on Ash Wednesday at 2:00 between police shifts doesn't make it legal I would like to speak on one point we wouldn't be here today Jim if you hadn't interrupted the meeting that we tried to have on the [Applause] 34 you mean where I pointed out another illegal motion or another illegal activity going on I think excuse me on I think I think you had an opport I think you had an opportunity now Jim you you think it maybe again there's a legal situation here is it legal we're supposed to please have this gentlemen remove from the room right over here he's out of order he is out of order you're out of order Mr Williams you're out of order Mr Williams out of order sir police we need to have remove police this gentlemen get him out get out here got to leave CC president we're in the middle of the vote we're in the middle of the vote does it you do it he does it it's hypocracy they're all out of order so why can't I take the vote please goodbye there was a motion made by councilman lamb and seconded by councilman Coleman to approve the regular minutes from January 31st 2024 councilman SOS it's your vote absolutely not councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk no council vice president OU council president Coleman yes there are no honoring resolutions and presentations we're going to move to item seven item seven is an ordinance of the township Council Township of Toms River Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing section 50-3 b 50-3 g and 50-3 R of the township code to Res to revise the roster of positions within the Department of Law Enforcement this is the final reading at this time we going to open the floor to public comment and remember you're going to be asked to give your name address and what town you live in thank you sir and clerk please start the clock my name is Stan man this on yeah tilted up a little bit towards your mou I'm sorry tilt it up a little bit more that's it my name is Stan man I reside at 259 Southshore Drive I've been a resident voting member for 41 years I have five questions questions this is a comment period not questions you're supposed to be making you're supposed to be making comments at this time sir all right comments not questions comments I'll make it into a comment okay good ask questions no no it's a public meeting we hired seven first class police officers they don't have weapons and they don't have the ability to arrest are we really in $3.5 million deficit no you don't have a budget it's not been voted on yet are you going to hire eight EMTs I would love to see that but do you realize the county is also looking at putting EMTs out on the barrier islands and paying for it do you realize that the police department put out two years ago an advertisement for EMTs nobody's been a taker maybe it's because of postco I don't know the biggie the township has a reserve of 30 to 40 somewhere in that ballpark million dollars as well as a security amount of 12 to $13 million which they can borrow again I'm sure all that money is in CDs let's just make it 5% annually so 12 million on 5% that's $600,000 you can pay eight EMTs $75,000 a year I yield to the Congress here sir appr the mik thank you good afternoon my name is Kenneth Thomas I reside at 100 puffing Glade in bville New Jersey I'm currently the president of the Toms River PBA local 137 thank you for the opportunity to speak with you on behalf of our 132 members today first and most importantly I would like to State for the record despite what you may have been told that the Toms River Police Department PBA local 137 is and has always been adamantly opposed to any reduction in Staffing to the Toms River Police Department regardless of rank title or Union affiliation and that the proposed reduction in full full time sworn police officers from 162 to 159 is simply unacceptable these eliminations of full-time sworn police officers have been proposed to fund the expansion of the Toms River CSO program by employing eight additional pmts to staff one Township ambulance these additional emergency medical technicians do not and cannot replace police officers every Tom rer police officer is a highly trained first responder that patrols and responds to calls for service with life-saving defibrillators first aid kits oxygen kits rescue breathing bag valve masks and life-saving Aran as trained First Responders Toms police officers can establish and maintain Airways perform rescue breathing perform CPR perform the highli maneuver on a choking victim administer oxygen perform bleeding control apply a tourniquet reverse an overdose with Naran and as we've all seen recently even deliver a baby our officers respond to over 9,000 first aid calls a year and in over 20 years I cannot recall a single instance where a life has been lost as a result of an ambulance response time as you may have been led to believe the question has been asked what is the immediate threat to Public Safety by cutting police officers there's a simple response fewer police officers leads to increased response times and that is what leads to loss of life the long-term effects on Public Safety cannot be ignored either by eliminating police officers that removes vital positions from within the department that can lead to deficiencies in valuable and mandated training education State Required licensing equipment vehicle and Building Maintenance and even supplies the officers that represent the boots on the ground as we have heard oftenly referred to need every part of the system above and around them to ensure that they can safely efficiently and effectively perform their duties when serving the community minimizing a number of police officers can also adversely affect the recruitment process for new officers candidates would be less like inclined to want to work for an agency with limited potential for growth an agency with low morale or an agency where they're publicly shamed for their salaries and benefits the toms Police Department is widely respected agency with a high reputation for excellence please allow us to uphold and maintain that in closing the toms over PBA and our 132 members are pleading to Our Town Council to table or adjourn the proposed ordinance to reduce the number of full-time sworn police officers from 162 to 159 we simply ask that more time be taken to obtain all the necessary information and pursue all options for alternate means of funding for the expansion of our pmts I've been informed that the process is underway for the township to pursue a shared service agreement with the local municipality that will likely provide the township with a $500,000 State Grant towards our EMT Services I believe this resolution may actually be scheduled to be heard at your upcoming meeting on February 28th with this in place and additional options being proposed we invite the Town Council to sit down with us to find a path to mutual agreement rather than rushing into a decision that will impact our community for decades to come the residents our visitors our business owners and even our students of Tom's River deserve all our best efforts to ensure the best decision is made for everyone thank you yes sir please come forward thank you president Coleman Mr mayor council my name is Ron S I live at 373 Hopedale Drive Southeast in Bayville I am the President of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 156 representing the supervisors of the toms over police dep let me first start off by saying thank you to the people of Tom that have come out and supported us uh this out outcry of support has meant the world to to us we all recognize it we all see it we all see it here today and I would just like on behalf of myself and my union and P thank you very much this ordinance ordinance proposes to slash the senior leadership of the police department by half but leadership is essential any large organization needs leadership to operate and that's especially true of a police department simply adding to the workforce and slashing leadership is not a good idea people need to be led be given Direction and motivation they have to be told what is expected of them they need to be given the resources training and knowledge needed to meet those expectations and they need to be held accountable if those expectations aren't met all of this comes from leadership as an example this ordinance proposes to add eight new EMT positions but the the first leadership position to be eliminated would be the administrative Captain's position which is one of the three supervisory positions that oversees the EMT program adding eight new positions while slashing a third of the program's leadership does not make sense the lack of support and oversight could result in Emergency Medical Services getting worse not better there was talk at the last meeting about the concept of span of control and a point was made it's often suggested to have one supervisor for every five employees if you include Patrol officers detectives dispatchers EMTs special officers crossing guards civilian staff there are approximately 300 workers in the Toms River Police Department for a 1 to five supervisor ratio this would mean the department would need to have 60 firstline supervisors 60 that is that would require 12 lieutenants to oversee the 60 sergeants and then you could maybe get away with two captains to oversee the lieutenants we in fact have 25 first line supervisors in the department which are made up of sergeants and civilian supervisors the only reason this works is because they work in management teams along with lieutenants and captains to supervise the various divisions of the department it's a system that has been honed over the course of many years and it works exceptionally well while maintaining supervisory staff this was confirmed by the township wide efficiency study which specifically described our Police Department supervisory structure as lean and efficient $ 87.8 million $ 87.8 million that's the that's the amount paid out since 2019 to settle police related laws we live in a litigious society and police incidents frequently result in lwuit almost every time some someone sues a municipality over a police incident one component of the suit is an allegation that the police department failed to adequately supervise and train the officers involved we slash our Command Staff by half it throws the door wide open to that time guard it could expose the T of taxpayers to a huge increase in liability also I I know previously uh PBA president Thomas said that the police officers Union supported these proposed Cuts this was not the case and the fop never supported removing any positions within our agency and in fact based on previous studies of the township recommended bringing on more full-time officers at the end of the day this proposed ordinance would reduce the number of full-time officers offers in Tom it would slash our Command Staff from four officers down to two and effectively cut the top half of their agency off Council I believe this proposed ordinance needs to be tabled and looked into for other options without need to cut these people we need the EMTs but not at that expense thank you you're Karen Hopson 34 Trinidad Pelican Island Toms River Township an active uh Township resident I'm very disappointed at what I'm seeing here I was very disappointed at this organized manner of the zoom meeting it was uh just shameful um I am also concerned that we we've recently placed uh the business administrator and the assistant business administrator and now already they've resigned that gives me pause like why are they resigning I also have pause because we're not including the leadership and our units I I I mean I appreciate the times of our police because they have reacted to our family in emergencies on Pelican Island over many many years but the fact that all the Departments if we our business administrator quit our assistant business administrators quit we had that Fiasco Z Zoom meeting and we're not Consulting our leadership unit and the police of what they recommend um I know organizations I don't know police organizations but I know organizations and you have to involve all the leadership units and get input from each you are not the expert on each of those leadership units so and so I stand in support of the Tom police and tbling that as well thank you Julian missina op Court Tom's River um I gave a couple of [Applause] you I gave a couple of you a letter um some of you had opened the email some of you not so I provide a copy in case you don't know how to use a Township email yet um I am the former uh Pio and media relations specialist for the Tom Ro Police Department I appreciate the council members who have gotten back to me in response to my letter unfortunately um last time I spoke I was terminated the next day so now I'm the former but I still have passion and I wanted everybody to take a minute and look at this room when was the last council meeting that you saw with this much passion we have a great town we have a great School District we have great employees and we have the best darn Police Department that I have ever [Music] seen I would like everybody to see this and take a look at this and it's the same thing on both sides because I think that everybody else needs to see it as well if you take a look the blue line is the call increase in the last 20 years okay the green line is the population increase in the last 20 years and the red line is the amount of officers that we have increased in the last 20 years okay so I was told recently that men are visual so I made these for you so the um uh fop and the PBA talked about supervision again it's the same okay I'll leave them up here for your photos so if you take a look the X's are what you want to cut and right under them is what they supervise and how many people they supervise I don't know but that looks like a huge mistake to me if you look at the red these are some of the responsibilities that we do as a business owner don't you appreciate all of the crime that they are investigating and the thefts and the car burglaries and the internet crimes and the robbery and Megan's Law and juvenile crimes and fraud has anybody been a victim of Internet fraud or scams because we're busy with it so if you look we don't have the police officers that we need and now we're going to cut the supervision of everybody who takes care of that and finally I'd like to talk about me for a second I did misspeak at the last meeting I apologize it was not $600,000 that I helped raise it was over a million so and I plan to do a lot more go may this is some this is some of the community outreach that we do okay there is I'm going to leave it here you can see the list you can see the photos you can see all the fun and if you've ever visited the Tom Police Department website or our social media or the police foundation website you will see so much more and videos and photos and you'll see so many comments okay of people who absolutely love every single officer in this room room and the support staff there's a I'm not going to lie I miss them a lot we miss you a so there's a QR code here for the website which can lead you to all of our social media if you guys want to check it out and see and I am asking take a look at the passion in this room take a look at the people in this room and think about the solutions that have already been brought to you Mr Rodrick they talked about having the money in a grant already so we don't even need to H remove this ordinance because we already paid for it you you can't budget for grants that you don't have doesn't work that [Applause] way I guess the only thing that I would say is at the last meeting I did ask everybody up here to please please just look at the grants okay out there I found in one search over 2,000 grants for community policing in the country I'm sure when that gets narrowed down there's a lot of them that are federal grants I'm just asking that before we remove all this supervision we just look at the grants it's the the rush I don't understand it's all I'm asking thank you yes sir my name is James troise trisi 108 West State Street Trenton I address you today on behalf of the New Jersey state Fraternal Order of Police I will also qualify my comments by stating I have several family members living and working in Tom's River summon your over 55 communities some with children in your school system but all of whom are your constituents if you were planning a major renovation on your house you wouldn't begin without consulting an architect or a contractor if you're were going to change the business model for your company you'd be foolish to not first consult a lawyer and an accountant yet here today we once again see politicians believing they are uniquely qualified to direct law enforcement operations without properly researching the potential pit Falls I say once again because we have seen this in so many towns and cities across the country large and small and in every case that we are aware of the results have been catastrophic in Lavalette it led to a departmental takeover by the prosecutor's office the mayor will undoubtedly hold that the positions to be eliminated or administrative were command rank desk jobs and will have no impact on daily patrols or operations has the mayor considered who will pick up the work for these eliminated positions does the mayor do the members of this Council believe that these positions were not deemed necessary over the years for a reason it's come to our attention that two of the council members seated have been arrested by the Toms River Police Department we would ask respectfully that you recuse yourselves from from this ordinance [Applause] vote we we who are in the business particularly as administrators appreciate budgets in the bottom line we appreciate the tax burdens of all new jerseyans as we ourselves live under them daily we also know nobody wants to live in an unsafe place is it's easy to say we're going to focus on the street Patrol but as the mayor have the members of this Council truly educated themselves on the administrative burdens of law enforcement today of what's involved administratively with keeping those Street patrols on the streets effective January 1 2024 every law enforcement officer in New Jersey must maintain a license from the police training commission which is now a subordinate arm of the Attorney General's office that's that agency that comes in and takes over police departments for lack of adequate supervision maintaining those licenses requires ongoing monitoring of backgrounds routine and POS incident reviews by command rank Personnel mandatory minimum training requirements have essentially doubled in recent years does the mayor believe the street level officer should be training the captain or should the captain be supervising the training and other requirements set forth and required by the AG's office to keep that officer working shortsightedness as some of you believing these reductions in force will save the taxpayers money your taxpayers are sitting here saying it's okay how much will the lawsuits cost the taxpayers of Tom's River for malfeasance or misfeasance on the part of an ill-prepared or inadequately supervised officer speak with your Chief consult with some experts in the field talk with your constituents the full-time residents of your community before acting haphazardly you have a number of resolutions on the agenda today e s does this Council believe that a street level patrolman researched and filed the requisite documents for those Grant projects as to the funding of EMS and agreements with the first aid squads in the area I have been an EMT instructor in this state for 35 years this Council would be well served to review the legal issues in West Orange Circa 2015 lastly quoting from an Asbury Park Press News article dated March 24 2023 while Ocean County prose Bill Heimer praised Police Department staff for their cooperation the prosecutor's office report was critical of Laval let's governing body as well as business administrator John Bennett and bough attorney William Burns for what the report describes as a metalsome pattern of behavior into the daily operations of the police functions of the department and continuous attempts to interfere with the Ocean County prosecutor offices implementation of plans directives policies designed to meet current police standards let us hope not to seee such written and said about the elected officials of Tom's River thank you yes sir Jeff lenx 118 Maple Street Toms River I'm here as a private citizen to share my thoughts on the proposed changes to chapter 50 Staffing of the police department thank you to councilman Quin and councilman Sosi for your encourage and support in opposing the proposed Staffing changes within the police department encourage the remaining members of council to consider the data provided by Chief little the GSG study the perspective of current and past employees of the police department and the ground swell of community opposition to these changes before casting a final vote I would like to offer you my personal prediction regarding the cascading failure that I believe these changes will initiate I personally know the importance of the positions you are seeking to cut as I served over 26 years with the Tom Police Department spent my final two years as a captain assigned to the to the administration Bureau each Bureau Commander Bears tremendous responsibility and carries a significant workload they have daily tasks and deliverables that must be completed to ensure the efficient operation of the agency in addition to responding to critical incidents and serious crimes this includes providing on-site leadership during large scale events such as superstorm sanding they do not simply sit at a desk as sworn police officers first and foremost they are the boots on the ground that the mayor referred to in his letter no decision occurs in a vacuum removing two command positions will significantly impact the entire agency as someone will have to take on the work previously completed by the missing captains when I served as the administration Bureau Commander my days were full I did not have the time to take on the responsibility of the second bureau if I had been required to stretch my attention across multiple bureaus none would have received the full attention that they require in any organization leaders need to be fully engaged with the Personnel assigned to their command and they must remain current on all issues affecting their area of responsibility in order to guarantee success when leadership is stretched to the breaking point piled high with the responsibilities of multiple positions important tasks and issues will be neglected the outcome will not be good failure is most certainly assured in order to ensure that work previously completed by the absent CS is addressed the remaining Command Staff will need to delegate a portion of the additional work to lieutenants these lieutenants also have responsibilities and work that must be completed they're going to need to push work down to the sergeants when this happens the sergeants will prev will be prevented from doing their job which is to provide Frontline supervision for police officers and civilian employees this will interrupt the ongoing feedback loop and informal training that occurs between Frontline supervision and their staff the end result will have a negative impact on the quality of service provided to the residents of Tom rer when a police agency fails to properly supervise officers lawsuits ensue and towns pay damages as you continue to serve the township I encourage each of you as elected officials to take the time to move about this town meet the residents and the employees effective by your decisions seek out and listen to opposing views so that you thoroughly informed before drafting ordinances and making sweeping changes acting on your feelings is not effective governing remember you have been elected to act on behalf of your constituents not in spite of it please realize this is not a fight about having or not having an ambulance in the Barrier Island 247 no one is discounting the need for additional EMS staff it's about maintaining a state of operational Readiness preventing the police department from falling victim to the pitfalls of absent leadership cutting and already clean and efficient Command Staff and failing to backfill police officers pels a slow slide into subpar service poor morale and a loss of Community Trust in an era of increased civil unrest and anti- police sentiment officer safety needs to be ensured proper Staffing and Leadership go hand inand with the ability to communicate effectively with the public across multiple social media streams and news outlets to achieve this goal people need accurate timely information to feel safe and engaged with the department and their Community as much as they need to know that a police officer will arrive when they call for help a rudderless ship knows no Direction by by disp parting half of the Command Staff you are effectively setting the stage for a shipwreck that could irreparably damage the reputation not only the department but the township and of your Administration conjur police department has a long history of providing outstanding service to the community and is a role model for surrounding police agencies don't let that winning Street die on your watch thank you sir thank you Council council president excuse me uh Phil brilliant uh 79 holly tree Lan um I think a lot of factual information has been outlined here tonight I think there's been a lot of you know questions that have happened since January 18th I think you know people have really tried to reach out and say let's get educated in this situation let's learn more and let's get the facts I think it was laid out very well by the people who spoken before me I'm just going to add a few more more in front of you and ask you my ask of you is that this ordinance be tabled tonight or permanently tabled okay and here's my reasons why first in the ordinance which I had to dig and find and I apologize if I'm a little discombobulated but I had to go through the agenda because I just got it when I walked in the room um so what is the ordinance include 50-3 B which is the captains going down to one from three 50- 3G which is officers going from 113 to 112 the headline says and 53r but that's nowhere in the ordinance that is on the Toms River website okay if you look at the code that is the information officer so factually we can assume that the information officer was fired the day after she spoke up because she spoke up that I would consider a violation of someone's freedom of speech and I think that that should be no the question is still out there though why is it in the heading of the ordinance but not in the ordinance itself because to me that means the job still exists after this ordinance is approved okay but that'll be discussed at a later date if you can table this tonight if you're aware some of you weren't around in 2021 almost three years ago to the day the council reduced the number of Sergeants how did they do it the mayor CFO representativ of the council chief of police representatives of police got together they went from 21 to 20 the sergeant who ran the building and the garage was promoted to Lieutenant and they came up with a plan to have a retired officer take that job for $20 an hour they came together they had a problem they dealt with it and they came up with a solution this Council not all of you sitting here tonight approved it and the mayor as Council abstained on that vote you can fact check there's been some questions relative to how long responses are and I think that's been outlined a little bit tonight the average is 7.5 minutes okay over the past three years not 30 minutes okay I opened it it's not 30 minutes I'm pretty good at doing math I do it every day and a lot of people have talked about it tonight 30 minutes is not there I sent a letter to the council I do apologize councilman lman it appears your email is bounce back when I send them to you I must have either it's I don't did you get mine I don't think you got I believe that we've uh communicated over Facebook we did several times yeah we did okay so I did send a letter outlining the fact that the EMS issues and I'm not going to say we don't need more EMS I'm not the experts on that I'm a citizen and a resident of Tom's River but this is a national problem this isn't a Tom's River problem okay this isn't something you're going to solve overnight by cutting two jobs and trying to backfill those positions it is something we can solve by looking at options you heard somebody talk about maybe some uh Outsourcing and you heard it I know there was a comment made about it that you can't approve something if the grant hasn't been given but there are grants out there this the police department gets grants you heard Miss massina talk about over a million dollars in Grants that she had gotten why not give the opportunity to the police department to come up with grants that they can do to cover these costs there's been um there was a letter that went out which in my my world you share people's salaries you're really digging in deep and you're basically saying that I play dirty I'd like to tell you I'd like I'd like to tell you I OA the township for the cost of those letters there is no such file in the township relative to that letter coming out from the township even though it is on letterhead from the township and has a obscure postage mark on it I time is up Sir time is up Sir your your five your five minutes is up Sir can I just have half a minute people clapped and unfortunately took some of your time so we're going to move on we're going to move on I do hope you table this tonight because there's a lot more to talk about thank you yes ma'am hi Dana fromen messenger Street um I'm here to discuss item Z on the agenda the resolution which is of the township Council in the township of comms River Ocean County New Jersey consenting to the application or the appointment rather of Jonathan solis's business administrator ma'am I'm sorry this is not the right time for resolution discussion okay actually is because it has to do with the police department so is it is it discussion specifically for a resolution no I'm just asking a question is it about talk I need you to listen only if you're speaking I need you to listen too this is not a time for a discussion on a resolution you just you just need to be topical this is on one topic right now keep it on topical let me talk I would get to that point well you were talking about somebody else being appointed yeah because he has control over our Police Department that's why and because he's not qualified to do the job that he was hired to do that's why okay so tell me again how that's not relevant to this topic I'm not trying to be adversarial with you I'm just trying to on the everybody all the time I have you have your response is on Facebook your nasty response in your email save it because I'm not listening anymore okay thank you the business administrator shall be designated as the appropriate Authority as provided by njsa 414-11 18 the business administrator shall be responsible for the overall performance of the law enforcement department the business administrator shall adopt and promulgate rules and regulations for the government of the law enforcement department and for the discipline of its members the chief of police shall obtain authorization from the governing body Andor business administrator or appropriate authority to enter into the contact with the New Jersey State association's Chiefs of police the internal National Association of chiefs of police or other comparable testing entity to develop conduct and grade the written multiple choice exams now I think a couple of the councilmen have Mr Sis's uh resume so you're aware in accordance with njsa 414-11 18 the business administrator in his or her capacity as appropriate Authority shall adopt and promulgate rules and regulations for the government of the law enforcement department and for the discipline of its members after consideration of the recommendations of by the chief of police all rules and regulations promulgated by the business administrator shall be distributed via the power document management system to members of the department so again check his resume let me know how he is qualified to do the job that he's sitting there doing right now yes sir how are you Mr Coleman I uh sent you an email about 10 days ago my name's uh Chris Ray and I live at 111 Flack Street uh the email I sent you was a personal email you knew my father Bob Raymond through the vocational school I did so my mom says talk to Mr Coleman I'm here today and I'll be very brief I don't need much time I'm a runner I ran by Town Hall this morning at 5:15 I see Mr K her photo up there my dad was good friends with him and I thought of three things today one it being Ash Wednesday the second of course it's Valentine's Day and uh the times were police and as I'm running this morning I really thought of those three things and I said what what do they all mean they really all mean one thing together and sacrifice um the police department as we know it today i' I've grew up here in my whole entire life they are the backbone of this town with the fire Department the public works and my concern sir is if you don't listen to the chief back there who in 2012 was a captain as well as Captain Burgess and a lot of other gentlemen that came back they retired they know what's best for the police department not me with all due respect not anybody up here that's the gentleman wherever he's sitting he should be the one making this decision I don't believe anybody has a desk job in the toms police I've had people come to my house that were not officers when we needed help so I'm appealing to you to please rethink what you're doing because I I don't think anybody wants to be known for def funding the police department and I don't know what your intention is but please rethink this because there there are better ways of funding the EMTs on the island Tri barel first aid qmt make some phone calls talk to your EMS people they're going to give you good Solutions but the solution of cutting police positions is not good and I just hope that um everybody up here can um maybe rethink your position because I think what you're going to do is you're going to unite a lot of us together and we're we're going to stick together we're not here to give you a hard time but we want our police department and I'll be honest with you before you whoever the council president was might Mr gagan I was up here and I've talked to Mr lamb we need more officers we need more traffic safety I live up at 37 the drag racing going on every weekend and these guys back there they cannot do it so whatever you got to do please talk I hate to put him on the spot talk to Chief Mitch little he knows more than I or anybody up here and I think you can work together if you give them a chance thank you yes sir good afternoon mayor council Uh Kevin Jacobs one 11 Baywood Drive uh I'm a lifelong Toms River resident I graduated Toms River East 1997 graduated Ocean County College I love this town I wish I could have been a little more prepared for this but I didn't get much notice so I'm going to wing it the best I can uh as Jill had mentioned before the population in Tom's River has grown year after year our police force has not grown the $800,000 that everybody keeps talking about there's 39 39,000 households in Tom's river that works out to about $21 per household per year to pay for the EMS simple math think it makes sense and again as a lifelong resident Tom's River has been very good to me anytime I've had to call for health reasons for family members the first people on site are the police officers that's important to us and most importantly it seems to be working we have a safe town we have good officers why change it I asked ask you please to cons reconsider what you're thinking thank you yes sir 1040 winam behalf the public you heard it from the professional could you talk a little closer to the microphone thank you 1040 winam you heard it from the professional you heard it from them now I'm a resident I live in the worst part of T Trevor ladies and gentlemen I told you guys since the beginning I like it that you guys are individual I like that you guys don't agree but we need to sit down and communicate if we cannot sit down and communicate this is what happened you will unite the town and I love how you guys United the town over this now we got to unite the town by sitting down and getting to the right solution sir I had the pleasure of speaking with the chief uh Mr Leto I would like to have the pleasure of sitting with you guys and yourself for him as well to get to the solution we don't got involved my type of business in cannabis even though we pay for all this but I believe if you speak to him and you guys sit down you guys can come with a solution where everybody wins this is a shenanigans we are head into the summer saying Hey listen we are eliminating our Police Department come sell this way because that's was the message we send it online EMT is for all the overdose we have in town in reality the Fant on killing all my youth that's what we have in a lot of EMTs so let's stop wasting all this minute because this cost time let's sit down and make a deal sit down not here back there the chief you guys you sirve I could be included as the hey amen but come next to the microphone you're getting too far away thanks so far the zoom meeting was a disaster I try to warn sir but nobody heard the special ed guy I don't know how to write so I'm not going to send you email I'm going to show up and or I'm going to call you that's the way I communicate don't expect the email or a letter from me we're going to face to face words to word I'm a special ed I used to be sorry I'm going to say this the drug dealer the most name back me up I look up to them because they put me in the right path I live in the worst area I see them every night where I live there's no more fentin on we had a month that every weed and in a comp was infective infecting them so I'm wanted to work with you guys to fix our town but this is not the right way I'm glad this happened why because it's uniters and I see that these people are willing to come here and fight for us right and you guys as well but we got to educate each other because it's not right when somebody knows something and the other one doesn't know and then you got me in between saying wow what team should I go to should I stay here and say Yes or should I come here and say yes I don't have the information and some of you guys don't even have it either so please more communication let's sit down and work it deal out I'm wanted to put everything on the line to make sure that everything works out the way you guys want allow me to come in I have the people I have the company that wanted to come and bring you the money to fix this and make them happy and make you guys happy as well so let's please sit down not with my business let's try to before I bring my business in let's sit down with them and work it out because I see everything guys you guys don't see it you guys live in a nice area t r i don't [Applause] yes sir good afternoon my name is Jeff k out of the 192 Cranberry Road Toms River I was a member of the Toms River Police Department 31 years last eight of those 31 is a captain and uh I've been retired for 16 years and over those 47 years I've seen a lot of illc conceived poorly thought out politically motivated things from out of town hall but this one makes a Kake before your last attempted Zoom meeting I sent each of the council members an email with a little Department history and some important things consider from our past I got an email back from Mr quinas thanking me for the information spoke to Mr SOS in person he thanked me for the information I didn't hear anything from anybody else on the council did uh did you all receive my email no I don't believe I did I I I reply to every email I received I didn't get it I'm sorry same with me anything that I've received as rep anyway let's just go beyond that let me uh let me review some of the things that I tried to passed along to last time u i was hired by the no Township Police Department in 1977 Rick Clement was the chief we had a deputy chief and four captains at the time we had seven lieutenants and a total of 111 sworn officers and a much much much smaller number of Civilian employees but we've widely recognized as one of the most professional Progressive police departments in the state of New Jersey I retired as is a captain in 2008 after 31 years on a job we had a chief a deputy chief and three captains seven lieutenants and 162 sworn officers and a constantly growing number of Civilian employees despite the fact that the department has grown more than 50% in the 31 years I was on the job you're proposing now to reduce the command sta by 50% does that sound right any of you does it sound right to anybody here any of you know if we've ever had a Command Staff with Chief and one captain no one knows in 1990 we had a chief and two Deputy Chiefs and four cabinets in 1992 New Jersey police and fire retirement system offered an early retirement incentive the senior officers with 20 years of pensionable time to retire with extra pension credits we lost quite a few officers from the ranks including a chief two Deputy Chiefs and two captains for that retirement incentive Township committee at that time chose to fill the Chief's position but eliminate the two Deputy Chiefs and into two captains positions and use that money to something else much like Mr Rodrick would like to do today any of you aware that sir I'm sorry could you like talk more directly into the microphone ask if anybody was aware of that uh you know what happened when we went down to a chief and two captains that's one less than you're proposing now it was a hot mess all the duties and responsibilities of the four eliminated staff Physicians still had to be done two Deputy Chiefs two captains all had a full plate of responsibilities and now those jobs are done but that work still has to be done only now instead of seven staff officers you have three three staff officers doing the that was formerly done by seven does that sound right to anybody well so the duties and responsibilities of the Deputy Chiefs had to be taken over by the two existing they had a full plate so they had to take some of their responsibilities as well as all the responsibilities of the two captains that had been deleted had passed that along to the lieutenants seven lieutenants now doing the work of two captains and two Deputy Chiefs logically the lieutenants didn't hand couldn't handle all the new responsibilities and still do their regularly assigned duties so they had to pass the duties down to the Sergeant's position anyone with a modum of leadership or management experience knows that the most important position in any organization public or private is first line supervision sergeants stop mistakes before they happen they train their people they Mentor their Fe they evaluate them both for the individual officers vment and development as well as the Department's liability prevention they motivate s Sor I'm sorry to interrupt but your time is up okay you have had the full five minutes all right thank you I have thank you I would ask you just for another I would ask you to please let somebody else speak please we're in that 90 minutes time the coun staff was I'm asking you to please give the floor please sir please anybody else want to hear me speak please the last time the command staff was reduced the levels of your proposing sir sir you can come up after everybody else has had a turn to speak you can you can on the road sir L supervisors respond to critical I don't think you're hear me you can come back up after everybody else has had a turn will I be able to come back up and speak yes nobody online behind me yeah there is yes there is what's standing there for I point I'm going to tell the clerk that you have one more minute sir to finish sure thing let me cut the chase here um what's going to happen this is this is what happened this isn't a speculation this is what happened in 1990s you had sergeants doing lieutenants work because the lieutenants were doing the captain's work there was no supervision on the road you had sergeants in a watch Commander's office training wasn't done planning suffered training suffered supervision suffered and overtime Skyrocket I was a sergeant I made over I made a lieutenant salary for a couple of years just based on the overtime I worked filling in in a watch Commander's office this isn't made up this happened this is the '90s you can go back pull all your records and you're going to see this I'm curious if this ordinance was run through the legal department to their opinion on any liability the townships go to Ines anyone here from the legal department that's seen this you review this ordinance we reviewed it and you thought everything wase with that sir that that extra minute is up so in all fairness could you please yield the floor I'm asking you to please be courteous and yield the floor to a legitimate civil thank you for your courtesy thank you [Applause] Cur yes sir my name is David paus uh 729 marce Street in Tom's River Dave can you is it possible to move that microphone or you can hold it in your hand if you want David paus uh 729 Marice Street Tom's River um quite frankly I want to call upon this Council as individuals uh you have an opportunity to hear what has gone on you've also heard the mayor of this town say things that quite frankly are untrue when I received the letter in the mail um with uh from the mayor I looked at the back and I saw a number of numbers and so on and so forth well one of those numbers happened to jump out at me so I did the math well the math on the on that sheet that was sent out was incorrect it was off by somewhere between 13 and $144,000 for each of the individuals listed on that piece of paper that was done by this mayor and it was incorrect would you like to would you like an answer as to what that was the column for tax okay I didn't think you were allowed to speak if you don't want it I won't I won't explain it to you okay I just want to call to your attention it was a line for tax that was not in there but it's unfortunately I don't want to have an argument with there's no need polite everyone's so polite let's get back in order let's get back in order mayor let him let him finish speaking okay thank you quiet go ahead sir I know what I received all right it was a deliberate in my opinion a deliberate misrepresentation to the people of this town a deliberate misrepresentation on behalf of this mayor okay now I will call upon each and every one of you as individuals because this mayor has clearly stated that he doesn't need the council ordinance he can do what he wants but I'm calling upon each and every one of you as individuals because he can't change the ordinance so please do not pass this ordinance thank you my name hold the mic thank you ma'am my name is Mo Jus I live at 113 Dewey Street and I am yielding my time to Jeff [Applause] pic I didn't I didn't want to rush through the last of this because it's the most important point and I didn't want to be cut off um just trying to give you some real insight real insight to what really took place the last time we reduced our staffing command to a chief and two Captain you're going want to go down to a chief and one Captain with a larger Police Department 335 total employees all right this is what happened the sergeants were taken off the road they had less supervisors on the road we had less supervisors available for critical calls we had less supervises available to do the training the Sergeant's assigned as a watch Commander's office which is a tenant job planning suffered training suffered supervision suffered those are all major liability issues in police work failure to train failure to plan failure to supervise that's why I asked if the legal department had reviewed this and I'm shocked that they could let this go through without understanding the impact potential impact this is going to have for civil liability for the township for years to come there's an old saying those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeated and trust me this has happened and everything I'm telling you tonight is a matter of Township records fully overtime records and see what my overtime was in 93 and 94 and 95 some of these issues you're not going to se right away these failures in training failures in supervision failures in planning but you're going to see that overtime Skyrocket two weeks after those Captain positions are gone because there's going to be vacancies that going to have to be filled the overtime budget when I was there we overran it every year just for routine training Court Major Crimes weather incidents it's underfunded to begin with it's not even going to come close to being what you're going to need for this if you think hiring these csos these eight csos are that important you better find the funding for it somewhere else you're going to pay for it for the mistakes and years to come just like we did in the 1990s I thank you again for the extra time ma'am I have to find out if there's somebody else that hasn't spoken yet before you take another turn okay all right is there somebody else would like to speak speak that has not spoken I'll come my my comment will be short Karen Hopson 34 Trinidad Avenue uh Pelican Island I just I was listening to that gentleman and a thought popped in my head um it's not just legal that is looking at the the liability here it's also the business administrator so the fact that our business administrator and our assistant business administrator uh resigned over apparently this uh leaves me feeling that we're to lawsuits um and I I just can't see how we're not involving our leadership position in all of our units and our Police Department so thank you my name is Jim Stegman I live at 61 Oakland Road in Toms River I'm a born and raised here except for a couple years when I left to move to Florida and I moved back here but I was also a volunteer first dator and the training that you have to go through back then was not as severe as the EMP training today so it was personal time I didn't get paid to do that it was of my own fruition to wanted to help people I also had my father-in-law was a Tomer police officer back then it was Dober Township he worked in Police Headquarters which is where the parking garage is badge number 28 so he's been around a long time the day where he was due to retire he had a heart attack and he never fulfilled his retirement time because of what possibly what helped was the stress put on by the police department that these officers and lieutenants and sergeants that you're going to put them in because they're going to get stressed out because they go on a call the backup is not there to be there for them or the supervisor during training is not there to properly train an officer okay also was mentioned about lawsuits I'm going to we're going to see lawsuits now it's not that public when it comes out because normally you you close those records but there's going to be lawsuits and I'm sure if I was a party to a lawsuit against this town the mayor would be a party to it because it's his doing what's going on here he is doing a strong arm of this town instead of the board instead of you all deciding what goes on in this town he's making decisions for us and those decisions are not the greatest he wants to to add more to Public Works and create two more jobs where that where's that salary coming from to create the other jobs he wants to have directors over top of those people where are those salaries coming from he's adding staff and expense to this town he has a government car cell phone and everything else does he used that to go to Middletown to his teacher job he has no right having that car if he needs a car he can come here and pick it up and go do Township business okay but he does not have to have those benefits it's wrong now I remember back in the early days of do Township they were the number one police force in the country Culver City I think it was California Nevada was number two we were written up all over the place I remember Jimmy whis used to be a bicycle cop in downtown Toms River we had community policing we don't have any of that anymore okay that's where you get to know the people in the town those police officers get to assimilate with what with the town people they find out what goes on in this town you want to eliminate the ability of those police officers to do their job because they're not going to go that extra step because why should they you've cut the legs out from promotions it's wrong and with the population increasing crime increases what are you doing about it nothing you're saying about EMS calls EMS calls you have a problem right now maintaining EMS people because you're paying them $25 an hour the other towns are paying more and attracting them away so you're not doing anything to help okay you're going to be paying EMS people to come here 30 $35 an hour and and you can't do that because now you're increasing the budget now the benefits that they get the everything that they get is increased as well what you need to do is have those captains maybe you take one Captain Maybe the administrative Captain not that I'm want to add more work to that person but let them go out and find grants federal government has grants for for public service for police to hire police let them go and find those things okay you took away a public Ser or public information officer go look at the website they don't have anything out there anymore we don't know what goes on in this town you don't have anybody to handle that you're going to hire someone from the town to do it part of your Administration there's nothing out on their website I don't know what's going on anymore okay and I liked when she was posting stuff so you need to stop this only two of you that I've sent emails to responded to me the rest of you and I know you all got it and I know you got it because I had to call the mayor secretary to get your email it wasn't even listed so you've all gotten my emails and none of you responded except for two counsel that's it I have never unresponded to any message that came to me you have respond never if I didn't respond I didn't get it you got two of them whether it came as an email or whether it was a phone call a personal phone call I respond them all because one of one of the emails was I was in South to's River at the Wawa and paramedics were there I walk in and I see them in the back next thing I know I see Tom's River EMS showing up and I'm wondering why time excuse me sir your time is up all right you the flo you're talking you're getting into an argument which is not going to be resolved so can can we please move on please with EMS all right you've had your five minutes move on there's other people behind you that want to speak thank you hi good afternoon my name is Anthony ccho I live at 468 Madison Avenue um I'm just a regular citizen just I read the paper I see Tom of rep patch I've listened to our mayor for the last five or six years you've always complained that you were blindsighted that nobody would give you a chance to give input and you were always against a lot of things I'm just surprised that for the first two months of your Administration you're not being more communicative with the department heads while you're not reaching out to Chief little and having a meeting with him and his Command Staff to to figure out hey what can we do here we need to come up with six or 700,000 you know and when I came in here today I picked up a listing of all the bills that you're going to authorize to pay in a little while and it came out to about $15 million in change and I'm sure we could find the way somewhere to cut back here cut back there come up with $600,000 and I'm sure as another gentleman spoke before you know he said the number $21 per household you know I know I live in Tom's River because it's a safe place I like my town I've lived here my entire life and I wouldn't have a problem paying more money in my taxes I mean I don't think we get our budgets voted down in this town I think we all appreciate to have a safe town so maybe we should look at the budget and go from zero up instead of going status quo up that might be another way to do it and talking about eliminating two captains I don't know anybody here except for what I read in the paper has anybody here even been in the military any of the councilmen the mayor been in the military well I was in the United States Marine Corps and and one of the first things we loar learn is our chain of command we start at a private and we go up to a fourstar general and you cannot lead privat sergeants lieutenants or Captain without their higher ups and that's what you guys are really doing you're gutting out the top and you're going to have excuse my pun because it doesn't really you know our officers are a lot smarter than chicken with their heads cut off but you're like what everybody spoke about you're you're going to sacrifice the sergeants being able to train in the field their patrolman when they roll up on a car call we all watch TV I like I watch plenty of TV cop shows we see how it works we see that the the sergeants the guy and the corporals that have two stripes the sergeants that have three stripes they they pull officers aside and they say maybe you should do this a little different maybe you should do this a little that different but if those sergeants are doing lieutenants duties then they're not going to have the opportunity to do that and maybe those patrolmen are never going to be instructed what was the right way to handle that call or maybe they're going to listen to another patrolman that really he doesn't know how to handle that that call so I think we need to you know you need to think about that like what would be the benefit except maybe a few bruised egos about tbling the ordinance and doing some resar research I mean you've always talked about taking the time and let's get it right I mean you're you're you were a passionate guy on the council sir I still am yeah I could see that so why not take the time well the chief was on vacation for the last 12 days I did meet with the chief in advance so that that's why we didn't that's why we didn't have another conversation I would love to answer you if you want to talk after this I'll talk to you I'm out of order so if you want to talk another I'm I'm always available fine but I just think we as you guys as the council we should take the time and take a deep breath and step back you know I mean somebody told me one time God gave us two ears and one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we speak why don't we do that here I mean I mean this is an awfully passionate group and let's let's talk about what happens when we get rid of two at the top okay now you're going to have two lieutenants that aren't going to get P promoted to Captain you're going to have two sergeants that aren't going to get promoted to Lieutenant and you're going to have two patrolmen that are not going to get promoted to sergeants no big deal you guys all feel I guess from what I read read okay but what about the morale no I I haven't heard the word morale maybe nobody wants to talk about it I'm not a police officer never was a police officer but I I run a company and I know how people think when you don't give them the the option for Upward Mobility you kind of chop their legs off so these these patrolman we all know how hard it is to recruit police officers okay they're going to go to other towns like Lakewood that's aggressively hiring police officers okay Sirah your five minutes is up okay please yield the floor okay please yield the floor you got people be look turn around you have people behind you Council to take a deep breath there's plenty a time it's February 14 I think we heard that very much yes sir good afternoon uh Craig beerbom 618 Weston Drive here in Tom's Riv before I make my statement I just want to just explain a little bit about uh my background and who I am so people can just understand that I'm not just speaking with knowledge or experience my uh in my career I did I served 30 and a half years in the township at Union fire department I retired as a battalion chief I'm still in a local fire volunteer fire department and through my professional career I have worked with local state county and federal law enforcement Representatives uh in various types of operations and yes no one can disagree that it it absolutely takes the boots on the ground to kind of make things happen whether it be police fire or EMS however I can't stress enough the need to have proper supervision and Leadership we've all probably heard the term failing to plan planning to fail is from um planning from planning to fail is from failing to plan apologize so what does that mean here's what it means it means that when you drive around and you look at Tom's River you see a growing Community with many things happening both infrastructurally police Fire EMS wise and yes we need more EMTs however when you look at the complexity of what it takes to make sure that every everybody here in our town is safe and secure you absolutely need a strong Police Department that has enough police officers to respond you also need enough uh supervisors and managers to be able to take care and make sure that all the planning operations get done by eliminating the positions that spreads the workload out to other individuals and people can only do so much before you start having inefficiency and people end up getting hurt and that's really not what anybody is looking for so I guess my message that I'm trying to convey to each one of you here is to rethink eliminating the police positions lowering the total number of police officers uh on the department and remember that this is not little Tom's River anymore it's a growing community and as we grow we're also going to need to make sure that we make that we have enough people to actually do the job so please reconsider cutting the police staff reconsider making Cuts in addition to making sure that you're doing whatever you need to to add EMTs because we don't want to compromise Public Safety in any sense or form so identify other sources of funding be creative reach out you know we have a lot of smart people here that have a lot of talents and ability and I just implore you each one of you to have all the department heads every individual ual come up with any idea to come up with additional funding to make sure that we have enough money in our town to make all operations work in addition to the police department thank [Applause] you yes ma'am my name is Tracy Forni I live at 15 North tunesbrook Drive it's very obvious that you all just graciously listen listening to all of us and many of you will just vote for whatever someone wants and the two intelligent people have considered this and of course we'll vote no but it is going to pass and so I will just say this you once that happens you will have effectively understaffed and defunded this police department and every single soul that doesn't make it because there's not enough staff to handle it is on you right yes ma'am hi my name is Liz dor I live at 504 Pheasant Lane here in Tom's River first of all I would like to say that I did send three emails to Mr rodri and he did answer them well one of them because the other two he didn't need to answer is about the Sunshine Law which I guess he knows about but anyhow thank you Mr rodri for your answer in that email he schooled me on the responsibilities of a Tom's River Township Police Captain which I found quite ironic because I'm married to a retired Tom's River Township police captain and when I got that email I asked my husband did you really only supervise one Lieutenant that's what you did all day at work I said what did you do with the rest of your time Tick Tock Tik Tock reels and he said no Liz we didn't have Tick Tock back then which is true the last time I had to stand in front of this Township Council was when Melanie Donahue was a councilwoman who attempted to pass a nepotism policy that would have affected the Toms River Police Department by not allowing our sons and daughters who grew up in this town to serve the police department in which they grew up a majority of that committee want Council wanted that to pass we stood like this that day and we talked to them and we asked them to table that ordinance until they had a better understanding of what they were doing now I can honestly say there's two Council people here that get it m ool M oul I hope that you will stand up for yourself instead of having somebody say say [Applause] yes as a woman I'm asking you to not listen to what the men are telling you to do you vote with your hearts and you're listening to your future because those of us that might have voted for you or might have voted for you after this when never again become one term councilman and don't just look at us like we're a group of table banging people because goodness forbid that that happens we are passionate because we love this Township we've lived here many of us most of our lives I'm sorry that councilman lamb said away because I grew up in Lavalette I am asking you each of you don't just go with the crowd stand up do what's right and listen to your constituents I thank you I wish you a very happy Valentine's Day before we move on I just want to make one statement very positive I want to thank the gentlemen I think there were two of them that had served uh in the military I really wanted to thank you before you sat down and thank you very much for your service yes sir uh good evening Council um it's been a while since I've been in this room um first of all I do see a lot of new faces so to welcome Thomas Neon cozy quins lick Hol never met you before but nice to see you all rodick also I respect everyone in this room and I'm happy to be here um I don't know if I said my address my name is Abraham herwitz my address is 342 Mark Drive I live in Tom's River um today's topic is is really not about left or right it's really Center and Center is all of us here um including myself um what is going on with this idea to diminish and lower staff of the police department um my personal opinion is is going to you know we're we're going to end up in like apocalyptic chaos because if we look around our town has been run really good up until now um and I see things in one way the way I see it my my personal view is assets and liabilities um Tom's River Police is an asset okay and removing them is a liability meaning to say is that if we take out those two captains or whatever it is I'm just thinking we're trying to save $800,000 right we're talking about $800,000 BS money one liability meaning to say is one loss or or or anything of that sort will end up costing this town more money so what are we doing you know assets and liabilities that's the way I look at everything in my life is making this purchase going to be an asset or if making this purchase is going to be a liability for um I want to point out you know something that I know personally um things that I you know people that I've known um that have suffered from you know crime in this town um we have people coming in from uh Newark and Irvington uh committing phonic you know fonic break-ins and ju you know these juveniles that coming in um when they come into this town they just they know it's it's not a free-for all there's cops but if we if we diminish that we're basically saying hey welcome off the parkway come in here in the middle of the night break into people's homes uh you know they they come in these they have these juvenile gangs coming in from from from North Jersey they give these children handguns and they say go steal Vehicles go break into cars and and go into people's bedrooms in the middle of the night while a husband and wife is sleeping their kids are in the room and they're rumaging looking for car keys so they can steal whatever car there is that they can get their hands on and they they go back to their town we need the police in this town um on top of that um in the past I've gone up on this mic I would say about a year and a half ago I happened to be I didn't even know that Mitch little was sitting in the meeting I hadn't even known who he was I think it was two years ago actually and I got up and spoke about a personal story that happened to my wife and I um actually theall correct Dan rodri was here um this happened in the mall um and there were these teenagers these Tom for kids verbally and sexually harassing people in the mall and and and more they were saying homophobic things towards people it was it was I never saw such thing in my life I was I was literally like I was horrified horrified um I had gone up to Mitch little I had you know and he actually got up from his chair was sitting right there at the time in the front and he got up and said yeah we have this issue and I can tell you that we've been back to the mall there's definitely there's definitely been Improvement there uh there is security uh things are better um but my goal of this conversation today is really one thing um we definitely need the police and we also need the EMTs it's it's you know there's there's this trade-off I don't know uh what exactly the equation is of mayor or everyone here and I respect everyone I just don't know what this is about but I can tell you as a regular citizen regular taxpayer um my goal is to make it very clear for myself for my family for everyone in this room that eliminating or removing the positions of people on top they are regular officers they are new they need guidance they need people to look up to I'm just thinking to myself if I walk into a school there's no Dean or there's no principal or people it'll be a free-for-all people just you know they need guidance need direction I don't know I'm asking Mr Mayor I'm not expecting an answer right now I understand we're in front of the council but there's definitely something that is going on as to why the council or whoever it is would do such a thing to even think of the idea to remove people on the top in order to achieve something I'm not sure what it is but I want you to think about the repercussions sir your time is up could you wrap it up please I appreciate it thank you everyone thank you yes sir I'm Brian Jackson US Senate candidate here in New Jersey my message is simple while I'm not a resident of Ocean County or Tom's River here I'm glad to see so many people out here today so passionate about this my message is simple fund the police council president just to be clear there are five minutes left in the public section of comments for this ordinance all right five minutes left go ahead sir I'll be very brief my name is Joe ardini I live on dery Drive in Tom's River um few years ago I was running for the Board of Education and Mr rodri put out a very very uh aspiring letter about myself talk more into the microphone okay yeah pick it right out that's very can you hear me now yes a very disgusting letter about myself a young lady in this audience who has six children another mother who has two right he sent the letter to miss ool she signed it and he put it out just to stop me from being on a board of ed okay few months later I came here and I voiced my concerns and I watched him in my opinion this man is not of sound mind he's not in my in my opinion he's a sociopath he's a vindictive sociopath and you people up here you have to think on your own you don't don't be sheep I'm telling you he's going to lead you in other words to to slaughter he's going to hurt this town and then in when he's out of here now or before four years right we have to suffer the consequences don't do this to the people of our town we run very smoothly here I love this town everybody here loves this [Applause] town now now to add to this not too long ago before mayor rodri uh was sworn in he knew he was going to be mayor he spoke to some people and he said publicly the first person I'm going to fire is Jillian missina who's a public information officer for the police Jillian is my daughter you tell me that isn't vindictive thank you very [Applause] much this is our last speaker sir for the public portion of this meeting go ahead blank 224 Ed Robert blank 224 Ed Drive Tom Z I am I'm CSO I was hired in 2005 by the police department love working for the police I have nothing bad to say about him I'm sorry that this wedge is between us now because uh we've been under staffed So Long by the township committee it would be a non-issue today had they properly staffed us all the EMS supervisors Police Department supervisors have all come to this committee prior to to add more Staffing to counter the calls we've been having and they constantly refused we had a boot on our throat for years we're finally getting six people hired or eight people hired and possibly more than that we need it we're we're wait we're way behind everybody else around us with less calls we've doubled in volume with the same amount of employees since 2007 nobody's been hired there is there is people who want the job by the way that there's a lot of miscar misrepresentations by people up here nobody was coming for the part-time job we have as of Friday was 14 applicants for a job that's not even advertised yet for fulltime there's many people want to come here for a decent salary and decent job I I can I tell you the days when I was told you should be kissing the bricks and you walk into this building happy to have a job You' be gone The Stroke of a pen we've been held down by certain people I'm not remain nameless they're not a factor anymore for so many years we're finally getting funded it's a shame that it goes on the back the police sub orbment that's my only regret thank you thank you at this time like a motion to close the public portion of the discussion on the Mr Motion in second was there first can I speak I drove two hours to get here I'd like to speak no sorry sir the 90 minutes is up you can speak at the end of the meeting at the end of the meeting you may speak okay you'll have a chance to come back up you will want everybody to hear what I got we got first and second this V for me the vote day J Vu for me who made V 1978 I got laid off by the north Police Department there was no morale left in the department mayor Gibson can I pleas get a the department why did he destroy the department because he said he needed take the vote I'd like social workers instead of cop motion to close public now I'm hearing we need EMS workers instead of cops people are all crazy a motion to close public comment was made by council president otou and seconded by Council vice president otou you're all bunch of fully Council council president Coleman yes Council vice president OU councilman Sosi no nobody keep it going councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk absolutely not public comment has been closed on this ordinance we'll take a motion to move the ordinance I'll make a motion to move it sorry there was a motion by councilman nion is there a second second a motion to approve this ordinance was made by councilman ion and seconded by Council vice president OU councilman ion yes Council vice president OU yes councilman zosi before I vote I hope everyone understands what the heck is going on here it has nothing to do with the police department or EMS it's about the decapitation of our Police Department coun can I have your vote please and and it's just like every other department in this town Council your vote scary thing what is your vote Council I vote no councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman [Music] quinis before I vote I the one person we have not heard from tonight in all of this is uh Chief little and I'd ask that Chief little come up here and tell me how this will negatively C C mcis what is your vote Chief I'm sorry you'll have to wait until the end of the meeting Chief again I continue the vote how will this negatively affect you the vote Cil Quin what is your vote how will this negatively affect the police department will negatively affect our town Mr little in the middle of a vote Council M can I please have your vote I can render a vote after miss little gives us his Insight on the subject I believe that's only appro here next coun we live in a state with a Democratic governor putting a Target on the police and a democratic attorney general putting a Target on the police and now we have Democrats running part of town hall and we're not going to give our police Chiefs an opportunity to defend his position this is not the correct time we will speak at the end of the meeting for sure we will all right could you please continue the vote Council your vote please Council M Quin your vote please there's absolutely no way that anybody who that has done any research on this subject can believe that in a town with a $46 million surplus that we need to cut our Police Department to fund eight additional CS I need your vot V calling for your vot my vote if I'm allowed is hell no okay thank you council president Coleman your vote as president of the council well I'm sorry sir this should be putti this past November over 71% of the voters in Tom River elected the Roger 69.4 indicating they were not happy with the direction you know a little respect a little respect a little respect appreciated a little respect would be appreciated we're adults here okay I have a chance to speak just like everybody else does just show a little courtesy and a little respect you're more mature than that come on Mr President 69.4% of the people voted for him that means there's another 86,000 res that out of order Council president your vote please my vote is yes item eight is an ordinance of the township Council the township of Tom's River Ocean County New Jersey amending section 16545 B of the to code to eliminate adoption fees excuse me I don't think Mr Lin had a chance to vote no I did okay I apologize I thought he didn't okay go ahead press on item8 is an ordinance of the township Council T Toms River Ocean County New Jersey amending section 165 - 45b of the township code to eliminate the adoption fees for dogs and cats from the toms animal shelter this is a final reading move the orance this the final reading this requires a public comment is there a public comment on this ordinance is there public comment on this ordinance exactly okay if hearing none then we'll take the vote please there's oh motion to close the public portion of the meeting on there's oh I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry sorry go ahead sir come forward we need to have a Rec yeah hi I'm Andy TR go ahead sir 57 shadam Drive Pal server excuse me I believe I don't think the microphone's on can you hear it go ahead sir pick it up and talk into it talk can you hear it yeah okay and drag 1557 chadam Drive I I don't agree with having uh free adoption wait a [Music] minute order sir you're on you got the floor go ahead yeah I I don't agree with the free adoption for the animals that if if people can't afford to pay the adoption fore for the animals they can't adequately take care of them also I don't agree with moving the animal shelter to becoming part of Ocean County animal shelters they're a kill shelter they've killed 51% of cats that they've had in their custody and 8% of dogs I don't think it's right to make decisions to move them into a kill shelter when these animals can't speak for themselves do you mind if I just clarify a point on the animal shelter thank you so just so you know there there's no move at at the present time to move the animal shelter out as far as Ocean County being a kill shelter versus Toms River that's actually completely a reverse in the 2021 data and the 2022 data Tom's River put down 12 12% of the animals they took in Ocean County put down 0.5% so an animal that comes into the Toms River shelter is actually 25 times more likely to be put down than it is and as far as the adoption fees I understand what you're saying but we just cleared 60 animals that fill in cages you share those metrics because the only metrics I find I'll give it to you at the end of the mayor just let him make his comments okay I think he was interested right I know but let him make his comments go ahead I I believe that we should still maintain the shelter and if we are killing animals we shouldn't be they can't speak for themselves and most of the time it's not for medical reasons I understand thank you sir thank you yes ma'am you can hold the mic if it's easier for you uh uh Julie Adamec 69 Cedar Grove Road um I had spoken about um at the January 18th uh um meeting hold the mic a little closer that's okay I had spoken at the January 18th meeting but I've also sent several of the council uh an email uh hopefully you've read that but as far as the fee uh eliminating the fee um I had volunteered at the old animal shelter for several years I was involved with an animal rescue group for several years so I'm knowledgeable on this subject um my gut feeling tells me that many of you on this Council either have no pets or dislike pets because it's it's with all the problems that Tom's River has which are not many except for the ones that you're creating now uh the uh we why you would pick on defenseless animals at this time when we have more important things to deal with in t in town but as far as eliminating the fee there's a few critical things that you should be considering number one by eliminating the fee uh there are people out there that are seeking animals for lab experimentation there are hoarders out there that have to be screened and weeded out there are there are were two horrendous in incidents in Bricktown that got uh public um attention in the last year or two uh relating to hoarding so you're going to attract that type of of uh population uh the bottom line is people should have an appointment it should not be an impulsive decision to to uh get it to adopt an animal and if anybody knows anything about animals often times it's the animal that selects the person I've have adopted animals from a shelter and it's often times the animal that picks the person so maybe the right person didn't come along but you also have an issue with the animal shelter that there are large uh dogs and large dogs are harder to and it takes longer to get those animals adopted but eliminating the fee is not going to solve that problem what you need to do was what was done in the past when they had the O the old uh animals shelter uh they had a trainer come in uh it might have been a volunte on a volunteer basis but they came in and they did some assessments on some of the animals that were there a while and they would work on training basic training that makes the the animals more adoptable but eliminating uh rescues and shelters from time to time do uh eliminate their fee but it's on a temporary basis it's not via an ordinance that's going to be a permanent step you could make a proclamation eliminate it for a month or or two months or three months just to lower the um the uh fees so that you could get animals adopted but you have all you're opening a Canon worms for all of these other issues by eliminating this fee permanently um as far as the location of the shelter I happened to drive down Oak Avenue this today before this meeting and you have have no sign if you're coming from uh the Ocean County Mall you have no sign on Oak Avenue uh indicating that there's even an animal shelter can I just can I interrupt you for a second if you all I want you to know is we are working on that we are going to have a sign there that's a good point and we have we haven't eliminated the application process and the vetting process so that's still in place and we all I have three adopted cats four rescued goats Dan has he's the biggest dog lover I've ever met and most of the people up here probably do love animals so we're very sensitive to animals that's the only reason we're concerned with it well I think that if you um did know about you know animals that you would realize whe that animals do end up in cages even if they're in a rescue even if SP years at shelters I understand well animals I mean I I think that the um statements that have been made in the Press unfortunately most fault could may I council president may I just do you mind if I hold on a second let me just say when you're done when you're done five minutes all right we won't the trct would you mind if the mayor made a statement I have five minutes yeah we'll give you the full five minutes I promise yeah I just I I just want everybody to know that when we first took office one of the first places I went because there were about 6 years worth of complaints where this room would fill with folks who are concerned about the conditions that animal shelter one of the first places I went it was on a Saturday in the first week in January I went down to the shelter um and when I went to open the door the door was locked um a woman came to the door um opened the door and said I'm sorry we're by a pointment only she noticed I was the mayor then after that and said oh Mr Mayor come on in and when I went in all the cages were filled I subsequently asked for a spreadsheet and found that most of the animal animal were there for a very long time so I sent someone down there who I trusted who was also an animal lover Drew shabo who took the lead down there and he's gotten almost all the animals adopted not charging first of all being only by appointment and charging excessive fees um I think that's what contributed to be to the shelter being completely full uh I asked if we could maybe be open in the afternoons when people get home from work work a few days a week uh but the folks down at the shelter were not super interested in that so it's been a goal of the administration not because it's good politics but just because it's good policy and it's good for the animals to figure out how to fix that and we've been working on it in the previous administration the administration before that did nothing in response to public outcries um we've been mischaracterized and there are a few people who are placing things out on social media that are completely false they're saying that animals are going to Jackson to be put down that is completely contrary to the state data which every animal shelter has to report to which shows that in fact Ocean County uh runs a very good shelter where only a half a percent of the animals most of whom are well all of whom are court cases only half a percent are put down in in Tom's River the same data says that we put down 122% so that would mean an animal that shows up at the to of a shelter is 25 times more likely to not get adopted and to be put down than it is if it goes to the County shelter which is why yes we have discussed with the county the possibility of the sh of them taking over and running the shelter no shelter would be closed we haven't really decided whether we want to do that or not we put a tremendous amount of energy into something that frankly is not very public and you don't receive any accolades in fact we've received uh a lot of a lot of a lot of emails about it again we haven't made a decision what we're doing but right now they have uh seven dogs I believe and 10 cats and when we first got into office it was entirely filled and it was by appointment only so this ordinance um is really just one of the things that we used to try to get those animals adopted well I I adopted two uh cats from the shelter that were older one was uh eight and one was nine last December not of 23 the year before and um the one was there for five months and one was there for six months one their owner died and one the owner moved and they must have not been able to take those pets fortunately that animal shelter staff gave those animals the chance to have have a uh a good um forever home now with me but um like I said um the the Shel what I think is not coming out in the Press is that the animal shelter has been chronically under staffed because I was volunteering at the old shelter it was smaller there was fewer animals there and there was much more staff so this animal shelter has had its hands tied behind its back because it's had so many animals and not enough staff to do the job so I can understand you want to increase the hours perhaps once a week to make it so that somebody could get there for you know after work however you have to have the Staffing in place before you do that this the staff that the animal um Control Officers get called into the field for all types of things you could have a deer stuck in mud you could have a big dog uh a Cane Corso uh aggressive dog running around in a parking lot in Walmart that they have to try to get that's not a 5 minute uh job to try to go out and get that animal so they're pulled in many different directions in a in addition to trying to take care of the animals on the premises and I know those the staff members there really are Animal Advocates and they love animals we you know so I would S suggest to you also that you resurrect the volunteer program because when I was there at the old shelter uh we had a robust program program that was 7 days a week um and that helped tremendously with the animals and I would be willing to volunteer again to to deal with the we'd love to have you the animals we'd love to have you we really appreciate your ideas and your compassion and thank you for adopting it it's not closed no he didn't who said closed it never said it who did who did he say it to never said it he said it's all of you guys do you guys have integrity do you know what integrity means any of you ma'am you have to give your name your address and your town my name is Sandra I don't feel comfortable giving my name with the defunding the police well you have to that's yes it's a regulation Tom's River no address 255 oav thank you do you guys know what Integrity is either of you is this relative to the animal shelter man yes it is okay all right you have do you know what Integrity is any of you sitting up there you I think we do do you okay there's two councilmen up here right now you guys live in Tom over you have family absolutely have none our opinion you have what they have absolutely no Integrity who none of you he's talking about councilman quins and counil C Co these two have integrity yeah well you're saying we don't so let's stop stop don't ma'am please please ma'am please make your comments okay keep it to the shelter please okay stop listen stop yeah we should probably stop right Tom you guys have families you guys I know for a fact there's two people sitting on this Council one two of them have said that they cannot sleep by what is going on and that what mayor rodri is doing is wrong and one of them have told the mayor that they wanted to quit and rodri said no we need you no he doesn't need you he needs your weak mind that's all this comes down to are we talking about the shelter ma'am yes this is about the shelter could you please tie the shelter into your speech the shelter is now in my speech but you have to make your point I made my point you guys have no Integrity every single one of you sitting up here besides these two gentlemen who actually have political Integrity not talking about the shelter thank you you guys don't even care lman no Coleman no mayor rodri no any other speakers concerning the [Applause] shelter if not then oh yes go ahead okay somebody I move I'd like to have a motion to close the public comments on this ordinance second take the vote who made the second um Mr Lin a motion to close public comments made by Council vice president to and seconded by councilman lman all in favor I I are there any opposed I oppose I final um public comment is now closed take a motion to move the ordinance sove second a motion made by Council vice president OU and second by councilman lman Council vice president oul yes councilman lman yes councilman zosi Mr rodri did State during his talk that he wasn't sure what he was going to do with the uh shelter if the county was going to take it over or he was going to close it or he wasn't sure of his options so um my gut tells me he uh they're eventually going to close his shelter Council can have your vote please please please make your vote Dave that's that's not that's not appropriate this time okay just want to thank the mayor for uh standing up again for those animals the conditions were deplorable and for those reasons I vote Yes councilman ion yes councilman quinis I know it's not much but uh the shelter needs those fees and if the shelter doesn't need those fees then perhaps we can use that little bit to help offset the CSO program I vote no council president Coleman I just want to make it clear that I also am a dog lover I had a wonderful English sheep dog Rumple still skin who I loved so much and cried when I had to have him put down so I am definitely a dog lover but I'm going to also vote Yes item nine is an ordinance of the township Tom zver Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing the township code to one establish divisions of Road and sanitation Within chapter 40 Department of administration two repeal chapter 54 Department of Public Works in its entirety and three place a division of parks buildings and grounds under the department of recreation this is a final reading like to open for a public comment on this ordinance come right ahead man thank you Mr Coleman my name is Janet Lang I live at 37 seater Drive Toms River I just want to say I'm kind of sad everybody left because there's a lot more things that are coming down the pike here and we should all stand together for everything that's going on in this town Mr Coleman it's confusing to me and perhaps other members of the public that there have been two different ordinances regarding proposed changes to the Department of the Public Works since January 1st 2024 each ordinance makes extensive changes to this department that go against the recommendations of the comprehensive efficiency study for the township of Toms River performed by government strategy group in 2021 have you all read this yes wonderful it's a it's an education honestly it's an education I have copies of certain things I'm going to reference so I'm going to pass them up to you it down thank I have serious doubts that the changes that you're proposing have been studied and vetted to be beneficial for the future of the township the need for complete restructuring of this department and any divisions to be placed under the township business administrator Andor the department of recreation should be scrutinized by the council and the public neither of these departments currently have any significant overlapping of related services or qualified staff to manage the proposed divisions that will be created now it is unsure from the vague ordinance that you're proposing whether this actually eliminates jobs or creates jobs there's no transparency in that the efficiency study performed by government government strategy group in 2021 addresses the need for the division of parks buildings and grounds to be under the purview of the Department of Public Works three separate times you can read these for yourself on the pages that I just handed out to you I have highlighted the appropriate passages it should be noted that upon review of this study this is a recommendation that the township Council acted on passing ordinance number 4725 D21 on December 28th in 2021 establishing that the division of parks buildings and grounds be under the purview of the Department of Public Works I could find no evidence in my research and believe me I'm researching a lot that this ordinance has a negative impact on the responsibilities of the Department of Public Works in fact it is my belief that this improved operations streamlined the purchasing usage and upkeep of equipment that is now being shared throughout the Department of Public Works and the Parks Building and grounds department now a division the township business administrator and Recreation direct director already managed substantial parts of the township operations according to the Tom rer organizational chart the business administrator oversees the division of personnel Information Technology purchasing administrative assistance and general oversight to all departments that's a lot of jobs the recreation director already manages the bay Le Golf Course winding River ice skating rink Youth Services all Park and picnic permits Township beaches and pools Township summer camps recreational programs Athletic Field schedules and more the business administrator and the recreation director do not specialize in the duties that are the responsibility of the Department of Public Works examples of which include janitorial services snow removal electrical and other utility repairs and maintenance parks and playground upkeep building and facility Improv mov ments is it appropriate for a recreation director to oversee new windows being installed at Town Hall Mr Coleman as the former superintendent for the vocational school I'm positive that you would continue to support the livelihoods of the township staff members that have the skill sets and training to work as a Tradesman for our Township most of them working for the existing Department of Public Works since I've heard I'm not allowed to ask questions I'll try to say these in a rhetorical sense where can members of the public find new evidence or thorough study that the current structure of the Department of Public Works should be changed have the current or previous managers and their Union Representatives been given the opportunity to provide input to the proposed changes to the department time up okay I'll just say one more quick thing is this the is it your intention to put any of these divisions out to P for public bid essentially privatizing the divisions of works is that a question for me or for the council president no I don't have any questions for you no that was for Mr okay well no we're not council president M just a second nobody's talked about PR to me at any time so there is there is no plan to Outsource public works all this ordinance does is codify what has been going on in town hall for the last four years which is we had two people in charge of Sanitation and in charge of roads that were reporting directly to the business administrator and we eliminated the department head position because no one had been in it for 3 years so all this does is codify what has been taking place for the last four years that's all it does doesn't change Staffing it eliminates a position that's been empty for four years that's it by the way I just like to clarify I was never superintendent of the vocational schools um I did have the privilege of being vocational principal in three of the vocational schools over 20 years and it was a it was was a really rewarding experience did we have challenges yes we did but um we talk about supervision as principle my last stop was in Tom's River as principal the vet vocational school I was responsible for supervising over 40 people myself I had no one under me to help me out I had to do it all by myself the worst thing was we kept getting State mandates that we had to live up to which took time away they wanted us in classrooms took times way from us working with teachers but anyway I'm just want to be clarified that I was never superintendent of Vocational School okay I'm sorry I'm sorry apparently I missed that one thing in my research but I just hope sir that you stand by all of those people that you help to educate and help them get good jobs that allow them to give health insurance to their families and that their their jobs are not eventually eliminated by this Council because their Department employs over 150 people which will your time was up okay I can assure you which will affect more than four police officers no one has ever spoken about privatizing any Department in this town that I know of no one me I I hope it doesn't come up but if it does my comments are on record and so we you I am not in favor of privatization I could say that here right now make sure you remember you said that I remember everything okay at this point I'd like to have a mo to close the public comments I promise of this U ordinance second the motion Lynn made the motion motion was made by Council vice president and second by councilman n yes all in favor I are there any opposed public comment is closed I'll take a motion to move the ordinance I'll make the motion Mr lman seconded motions made by councilman lamb and seconded by councilman lman counc lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi no councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk uh council president I have one uh one quick question uh you've created three different divisions within one sounds like more people are going to be hired to do those roles and if this was all an attempt to get rid of one guy it seems a little weird especially when uh uh as per Lang um DPW worked fine the way it was there's no real reason to break it up and if it's Jus a fire one guy seems a little crazy why how many more people are getting hired to fill the positions by breaking it up no one was hired president how many more people are getting hired to fill those positions I have no idea Council Quin your vote please but this is your agenda and your meeting my answer my vote is no it's our understanding that no one else vice president OU this is like council president Coleman yes item 10 is an ordinance of the township Council of the township of Toms River Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing section 47770 schedule 12 stop intersections of chapter 477 vehicles and traffic of the township code to include the placement of stop signs on Hickory Hill Road at the intersection of Hickory Hill Road and Harbor View this is a final reading any public discussion on this ordinance hearing none like to have a motion to close the public portion of the discussion second are all in favor I there any oppos take a motion to move the ordinance please second motions made by Council vice president o and second by councilman lman Council vice president OU councilman lman yes councilman seosi yes councilman lamb yes councilman nion yes councilman quinlisk yes council president Coleman yes item 11 is an ordinance of the township Council of the township of Tom R Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing section 47770 schedule 12 stop intersections of chapter 477 vehicles and traffic of the Township Code stop signs installed on Yorktown Boulevard and Mount Carmel Boulevard all approaches this is a final reading any public discussion on this ordinance hearing none that I would like a motion to close the portion of discussion motion Mr Lin made the motion seconded by Mr are all in favor I are there any opposed take a motion to move the the ordinance move the ordinance second a motion made by councilman lamb and seconded by councilman lman councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi yes councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk yes Council vice president OU council president Coleman yes item 12 is an ordinance of the township Council of the township of Tom zerver Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing section 47779 schedule 21 speed limits of chapter 477 vehicles and traffic of the Township Code reducing the speed limit on Hon's Bullard speed reduced to 25 miles per hour for the entire length and remove Z Zone one and zone two this is a final reading any public discussion on this ordinance hearing none need a motion to close the public portion of this ordinance motion second all in favor I any opposed take a motion to move the ordinance please move the ordinance make that motion a motion is made by councilman lamb and second by councilman lman councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi yes councilman nison yes councilman quinlisk yes Council vice president otou council president Coleman yes item 13 is an ordinance of the township Council of Township of Tom Zer Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing section 47779 schedule 21 speed limits of chapter 477 vehicles and traffic of the Township Code reducing the speed limit on Yorktown Boulevard speed reduced to 25 mil hour for the entire length this is a final reading any public comment on this ordinance hearing then I'd like a motion to close por public portion of this ordinance make the motion Mr Lin made the motion second anybody a second Mr nerson second all in favor I I are there any opposed take a motion to move the ordinance move the ordin second a motions made by councilman lamb and second by councilman Lin councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman Sosi yes councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk yes Council vice president OU council president Coleman yes item 14 is an ordinance of the township Council town with Tom zerver Ocean County New Jersey amending and supplementing section 48-6 of the township code to create the division of zoning planning and proper prop maintenance and repealing section 48-8 this is the final reading any public comment on this ordinance yes sir come right up not a problem I'm GNA do it right this time Joe Coco 161 walner Creek Lane tomso New Jersey 08753 Perfect all I have a question on this particular ordinance the way it's written establishing a division of zoning planning and Property Maintenance so my question is number one what de what department is that in is that in community and um engineering would you would you like an explanation this the administration that put this on so umor so what this does is as you know we eliminate the certificate of occupany ordinance that resulted in the elimination of about five inspectors and a few other folks that were in that department that were added that were added to uh for the co so those positions were eliminated so now there are three code enforcement officers and supervisor so what this does is put them under one department head which is the township engineer so uh they need to be under someone's supervision because having a director's position or a um a supervisory role you know a manager position above three or four employees would just not be fiscally responsible so they're now so code enforcement officers uh will now be observed by the um will now be observed by the same folks that zoning and building are so the township engineer will supervise all those departments after the the reduction right but mayor they have they have been no it's the Department of Code Enforcement has been under under the engineers under Community uh they had a manager so they had a supervisor and a manager they the man the managing position is is is gone and now this puts their supervisor and staff directly under the engineer that's all it does so so the engineer instead of the engineer and then a manager and then them this puts them under under engineering that's all it does which is honestly where they belong because zoning code enforcement building and the complaints associated with that Andor fines and activities they're they're all related in many cases but again that that doesn't split up you know that doesn't split up code enforcement no okay no that supervis that supervisor doesn't lose you know his position no there was was a manager that after that was shrunk down to to a third that the manager was also rifted as well but now those folks are going to be managed by the township engineer but supervised by the supervised by the supervisor the supervisor is still there all right yes okay but my question is maybe I'm going to go over the five minutes the could we please extend Mr Coco five minutes because I did answer sorry about that if you want me again I'll I'll answer that's fine yeah no because again you know everybody's still in a learning process but you know I I I've been part of the organization reorganization Etc of that of that department so as it was as it was withstanding as you know a Department of Code Enforcement which included housing still includes housing rentals and and those inspections and then it had included what we you know what was repal repelled um basically I think if if it's going to be under this division you have has zoning planning and Property Maintenance the property maintenance really is is a part of Code Enforcement as as opposed to the way it's written you know zoning planning Property Maintenance you know maybe that should be written zoning planning and code enforcements and under you know Property Maintenance and and right it's it's interchangeable those words so property maintenance code enforcement they're they're the same yeah but no it doesn't it doesn't it goes a little bit further because code enforcement basically uses the uses the terminology of codes you know code enforcement and a lot of their work is Property Maintenance well if your if your concern is whether or not we're reducing that department any further the answer is no we reduced it as a result of the certificate of occupancy ordinance right now they just need a manager okay that that's essentially all this stuff right I mean that's and and again like you said that's that's who the supervisor currently reports to you know and that that's who the manager was reporting to the manager was reporting to the engineer so you had like three levels right which is if you had if we're down to three code M officers having a supervisor and a manager and then a department head is is pretty excessive right as far as management to staff so yeah but again just just so because the public gets very confused and and we've had that because the public gets very confused when they're calling something in when when they're calling a a property maintenance Pro uh problem or or a a an an engineering problem you know and we've seen it where you know they'll call in because my neighbor has his grass too high that's a property maintenance issue okay or there is garbage thrown all over um you know silveron Farms on silveron road in front of the in front of the property just use that now but what I'm saying in other words so there is confusion on those folks a lot of those folks call public works but when they see it as the Department of Code Enforcement that's basically where they are they'll they think about it they fall and I'm I'm just talking about like from my experience there and again I offered a couple meetings ago to be a to give my experience and my help to you know to do any of these things if I can interject perhaps this can be cleared up when our newsletter comes out and I'll direct the mayor to put in a clear explanation of who to contact for certain situations okay you know yeah I mean that's yeah that that that's good I didn't know the newsletter was going to come out you're gonna continue newsletter yeah okay so uh again but I just want to make sure you know with the other confusion that you know we've heard on different departments and all that you know this one's a little smaller department but sometimes the smaller departments are the ones that that's you know okay you know you have my cell phone you can call me whenever you want about that yeah no I mean and I could tell you maybe we you know get together and you know that the other thing I would like to suggest each each and every one of you is that you do get out and you know and the mayor get out to the Departments you know get try to in between try to get down there meet with people and and again that was the same thing with the departments in the basement okay sometimes they felt that the council some council members didn't even know where the basement was some I plan on doing that retired and I'm very interested in doing that I already told the mayor I'd like to meet the department and that's it because some C some of the um departments like I said some of the councils didn't know who was why right and and and where so so that's what I'm saying so you know I'm trying to look from the standpoint of of the positives that that can really I want to help it I I I love this town you know like I said you know I supported the police department for for many years you know there's a lot of good people there I don't want to cut you off but can we wrap that up because somebody else speak I'm basically saying I'm putting I'm putting this stuff out here so that that that you know you can all understand understand and ask just just ask and and we'll do it thank you very very much get together and go over some of that thank you you're welcome thank you yes ma'am hi Jennifer how 22 Admiral Avenue um some of you might not know me I was the other person Joe nardini was speaking about when miss miss OU and Mr lobin set out and the mayor sent uh a disgusting flyer about me when I was running so that's who I am just in case you didn't know um since you don't haven't been to all these departments yet uh president Coleman and you're still learning how the township works why are we passing all these ordinances and getting rid of positions we're down to three Code Enforcement Officers now in the town Mr Coleman are we down to three code enforcement officers in the town president Coleman I have to pass that question no I I'm asking you this is sorry I don't know I don't pass ma'am I just this is my this is my bear with me okay I'm going to bear with you I've been on this position for a very short and you're passing a lot of items that you do not know I'm not listen I'm not I'm not being combative I'm just saying to get rid of all these departments and all these things you haven't been to all the Departments and you don't not just you I'm speaking I get my five minutes okay go ahead thank you you're voting on these these ordinances all the new Council I was board member I I didn't you have to learn before you start combining these apartments do you know do you know what even know what they are doing it takes a long time to learn how a town runs and you're you're on 14 ordinances you're on double A for Resolutions and I understand a lot happens in the beginning of the new year but you're passing these things you don't know what you're voting on really so as a as a property owner of a rental property if I have an issue with my tenants who do I call now now there's is one Department there but they saying that this is pull code enforcement okay but there is no code enforcement what what division is that under now code enforcement you would call code enforcement I'm not speaking I'm speaking to the president I will not ever speak to you ever but you'll yell out from the back of the room because for school I am I'm asking not to speak to me sir you accuse me of Distributing child pornography and I'm a mother of six children you're a disgusting human being you know that you did it everyone knows that you did it do not speak to me really do not speak to me I am not speaking to you and I will not look at you you don't want an answer the why look at me I'm asking the president of the council this is his meeting political season and it's grandstanding season if you don't want speaking to the mayor I am speaking to the president speak and I don't need to listen to you I'm asking the president of the of the council what is your question well first of all you're not some asking questions supposed to make comments okay well this is my comment because the new mayor didn't like the newsletter I I hope it still goes out so we know well there'll be phone numbers listed and with everything being put together now in all these there's almost 100,000 people in town we have three or four Code Enforcement Officers now which is crazy with all the new buildings going on so as an owner of a rental property if I have a problem I can call the number and now that we're down to three people for 100,000 people or four people how long am I expected to wait that's a question comment okay so my comment is we're going to have to wait a long time and you don't know what you're doing yet so I I advise all of you to wait to vote instead of having like this it's unless like you you have to know what you're voting on I mean I had Mr lobman tell me that Mr lobman tell me that he didn't even know that a flyer went out with my name on it you sometimes file follow people blindly because you trust them but you have to know exactly what you're voting on I have never seen and I don't know who to call for the code enforcement so maybe put it on your Toms over page and say who are we supposed to call now for all of our questions since all everything is being combined and you're cutting staff in a growing Community which does not make sense Miss Hal can I ask you a question did I respond to every one of your emails I I don't care and comments I I responded to everyone that's not any of the questions I asked you okay she doesn't care she's politically grandstanding that's all she doesn't care when someone accuses you of Distributing child's pornography and you a mother and in school to be a teacher it is disgusting Miss OU you're nodding at me your name was on the flyer your name was in the text message let's see this flyer let's see this fly you have text let see this F wasn't a flyer I'm sorry it was a text message the fly it was a text mess it's political season and you're running for the school board again and you're grand standing at a meeting let's see this flyer you're talking about you don't have a flyer cuz you're making this up CU nonsense it's nonsense you have class you're yelling from the from the stadium from the peanut gallery like a child you same thing the same people yell out from the back five people yelling like like children wait for your turn raise your hand come speak and sit down here we go speak speak to the microphone instead of yelling out from the back yes sir B Molen 109 messenger Street I will direct my message at the mayor I called him out on his his flyer his propaganda let's call it I asked five questions at a council meeting here I asked five one was the number of Apartments he had no clue number two was building going on downtown number three about the Board of Education everyone was a lie and you know what the mayor did and then I got a phone call saying I was a plan when I called him out on every lie this man does nothing but lie that paper that came out about the police salary was lies you people up here especially the new ones when it was time for you people to run for office he wouldn't even let you answer your own questions he answered them for you now you get up here and you answer whatever he wants to say do we have faith in you how many of you people ever came to a council meeting before you were here we came to more you're on the zoning board you rarely showed up how can you people take credit for anything and vote on things if you were never here shame on you they're here now and you're addressing them so I'm not sure what you mean by that they're sitting in front of you like the brave public servants that they are any other public comment on this ordinance at this time it's not your turn to speak any other public comment on the ordinance at this time time if not then like a motion to close the public portion of discussion on this ordinance a second motion made by Council vice president and second by councilman n all in favor I are there any opposed council president uh sorry um public comment has been closed take a motion to move the ordinance move the ordinance second a motion made by councilman lamb and second by Council lman councilman lamb yes councilman lman councilman Sosi no councilman ion yes councilman quinis oh I hate this I have to say no too because uh because the Miss how brought up a good point like who is she going to call for code enforcement when you're specifically saying we're going to repeal 48.8 which is code enforcement and merge it into Property Maintenance so yeah it's a little confusing the answer is no council vice president otou yes council president Coleman yes item 15 is a resolution of the township Council of the township of Tom Ober Ocean County New Jersey authorizing the retention of pool General legal and litigation services for the calendar year 2024 to be utilized on an as needed basis take a motion to move the resolution we have a motion to approve a motion I'll second a motion made by councilman lman and seconded by councilman lamb councilman lman yes councilman lamb yes councilman Sosi I have a question why is number 15 separate it's been separate for the two years that you've been on here it's an appointment that's why it's separate it's a it's an appointment of the pool everyone who put in the pool got into the pool no special treatment did you read it no yes I'm asking a question thank you it's been answered it's been answered did you who did you address I you didn't address anyone you just asked a random question I answer right excuse me councilman can I have your vote please no councilman ion yes councilman quinlisk uh I have to ask Mr or Mr President why do we need this is there something change or is it we can't retain attorneys with all the craziness no it's all of the attorneys that applied every attorney that applied got in so anybody can be chosen so that that's what's in it and if you read it you would see that is this typical Mr President having a pool we've had a pool for forever it's the pool and and your friends in the in the peanut gallery that are yelling out are not going to change the fact that you've been here for 2 years and you don't know what you're looking at that's highly unprofessional two years and you don't know what you're looking at same as all the ordinances above you don't know what you're looking at all right let's move you have no idea you don't read it you have no idea you've been so used to voting yes for everything that Mo Hill wanted that you just don't even know what you're looking at you don't even know what you're looking at goad take the vote take the vote I'm gonna abstain until I can learn more about it yes Council vice president otou yes council president Coleman abstain going to move to cons to the consent agenda all matters listed under the item consent agenda will be enacted by one Motion in the form listed below there will be no separate discussion of these items if discussion is desired on any item that item will be considered separately second yes is there any resolutions that the council would like to hold for further discussion yes okay would you please identify d w XY Z and a a could you repeat those please v w v you say Wallace xray wait a minute slow down okay VW go ahead x-ray yellow and Albert Albert okay any others yes council president um I'll probably I might be uh repeating a couple but q v w y and z please Q is the only new in there day okay thank you any member of the public would like to have any resolutions pulled for a vote okay then I'd like to have uh a motion made to approve the balance of the consent agenda so move second just just for the record the balance of the consent agenda with the exception of v wxy z AA Q yes motions any by counc lman and second by councilman ion councilman lman yes councilman ion yes councilman scosi yes councilman lamb yes councilman quinlisk yes counc vice president otou council president Coleman yes roll calls for each one or a separate discussion roll call discussion okay roll call discussion um Mr Quin you want to do yours first yeah un uh first who's being appointed to this position suppos to you're supposed to vote on the full first right and then then individually we just did oh you did Sor okay my mistake Jim you were at the uh you were at the meeting we had a meeting about this I'm aware of who was pointed the public is not I don't think we took did we take a vote on the cons send agenda the items that were not questioned we've done that okay thank you all right so back to V the question is for the public uh knowledge Who was appointed to this uh and what are that those individuals qualifications and pay status I'll tell you what I'll answer you Jim if you could tell me who was in the position beforehand but can you can you tell me who was in the position beforehand Jim that's not that's not what I that's not what I'm asking for sir and it's his meeting still so he either abstains from my or he starts answering questions but it's my appointment I'm asking it's the president's meeting sir you why don't you yeld to the president have no more right to jump up and yell than anybody in the audience you're talking about but you were there sir you were at the meeting again I know who so tell me who if you know who tell me who I Know Who You Picked tell me who you don't know because you don't read anything tell me who Mr President I'll ask you again who was appointed and what are those individuals qualifications and how much did you give her uh for her pay and Jim I'm going to answer your question very honestly I do not know okay but we're going to vote on it we are going to vote on it that's makes perfect sense does anybody else up here not know who we picked and what that individual's qualifications are and are going to vote on this do any of you know or is you I mean literally do you guys do I I feel honestly bad for what's happening here every week I do I really do because I I feel like yours deceived or blinded by the same you can call me anything you want I'm not trying to call you anything that's problem I really don't want this to turn into a every Weekes it's impossible to avoid that Jim the way things are going now but it this is going to be on and on item end anything about this is you are a guesser everyone in this room and everyone on this Das knows that it's going to be two votes against every everything that's being planned by this mayor or by this Council representing it's not the way the way it's going to be and you know it was like that for the past two years was like that the past years he was a yes vote you were a yes vote on everything David now excuse me excuse me we're on item v as for a discussion it's never going to change it disc still is does anybody know who's getting this what that individual's qualifications are who's making it I know tell everyone this is for the public benefit tell everyone if you close discussion he ped personal I don't believe has any for this because I've never SE why why is it excuse me discussion was closed council president we're going to take a vote on item v council president has the privilege of closing discussion on these items he closed discussion on item v it is now up for a vote somebody has to move item v have a motion to move item v the motion second motions made by Council lman and second by councilman ion councilman lman yes councilman ion yes councilman Sosi no councilman lamb yes councilman quinlisk no council vice president OU yes council president Coleman yes okay discussion on resolution W uh I believe on the meeting um uh was it the the middle of January I'm sorry we talked about allowing this person to uh work without a contract and yet here we have it on a um resolution to give them a contract that wasn't discussed in the meeting I was there and that wasn't discussed in the meeting that is a bull Place lie you were in that meeting and what did we discuss about we discussed that was about we need to start saving money and the insurance is costing money and I believe the mayor was this is a this is not costing a Township any money and I think contract they're going to shop they're going to shop and try save us $3 million but you got a problem with that because you don't want us to leave the broker we have now cuz the broker we have now is a political broker so you don't want us to shop no no Mill has never wanted us nor any of you previous Council folks ever wanted to shop for health insurance we're going to shop for health insurance just like everybody in this room shops for their car insurance we're going to shop for health insurance and we're going to save the taxpayers money whether Mr quinis or Sosi or mohill or the political establishment approves we're shop you're you're not answer we're going to shop okay all right we have not addressed the question going motion that vote on this resolution please how can we vote on that motion I'll make that motion okay Mr Lamb made the motion second second Mr made by councilman lamb and seconded by councilman Lin the formalities and go to Five yeses lman yes councilman zosi abstain councilman ion councilman quinas abstain Council vice president OU yes council president Coleman yes I believer on resolution X any discussion on resolution X let's see resolution X oh all right so this one brings in the fact that we're going to be supplementing uh the current um uh public defender with two additional public defenders and I was just curious as to whether or not this goes out to bid or needed to go out to bid before we appoint more more people to handle the job one guy's already doing everyone applied got in again everybody who applied got in three applied for three positions and they got in my question was did it go out to bid of course it did okay okay all three applied there were three positions all three got in just like the legal pool that you didn't read okay can I have a motion to take a vote motion Logan made the motion Lyn second it motions by councilman lman and seconded by Council vice president oul councilman lman yes Council VI president OU yes councilman seosi yes councilman lamb yes councilman ion yes councilman quinis yes council president Coleman yes okay discussion on resolution why sorry folks uh this one is in regards to hiring a Redevelopment attorney what is the purpose of this attorney or this this firm what are they uh end goal of hiring these they're going to represent us in our on in our activities that that mohill left us with whatever this deal is with capid dagle they're going to represent us we're bringing in an outside counil you were in a meeting when we discussed yeah you were in there too you know it's a public meeting well I I announced that I was going to bring in a new Redevelopment attorney one that would uh would ensure that the township is treated fairly and if these folks breach we're bringing them in specifically to stop the capit dag no we're bringing him in to represent the township to stop the capital dag no we're bringing him him in to to represent us on the project and you making statements like that is like asking for our Township to be sued you need like a muzzle you just said you need a muzzle yes you really do you said that it was he's here to represent our Township and you're than a motion to take a vote make a motion Mr nerson made the motion seconded by Lynn a motions by councilman ion and second by Council vice president otou councilman ion yes Council vice president OU yes Council M Coy No No councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman quinis no council president Coleman yes discussion on resolution Z hearing no discussion like sorry sorry I was writing something uh Z congratulations Mr solanis uh I have never seen your resume until tonight and I don't have I didn't have a chance to review it but are you qualified to be or sorry is Mr solanis Mr President is Mr solanis qualified to be the new a business administrator for the township of Tom's River a town of years of government experience I have my Master's Degree my bachelor's degree the president's president's meeting sir it doesn't matter not asking you you as for my I'm giving them sir excuse me I didn't ask you I have to ask the president Mr a second let me get this back in order okay before you proceed please so have you seen Mr quinas please just let me get this in order please okay all right Mr quinas make your statement and then his administrator may make his statement please go ahead again before tonight I haven't seen Mr solis's resume and I ask is he qualified does he have the qualifications to to do the job that he's been selected to do uh and uh the proper certifications to do it okay thank you and then I'm going to give him an opportunity to respond Mar may I first ask you what the qualifications of the prior business administrator were blo laruso to tell you the truth I don't know what the specific qualifications are I don't know the specifics of it but there are qualifications are CER you know whether I'm qualified or not the council needs the people want to know if you're qualified to do this job and have you qualified I have nine years of government experience I have my Master's Degree my bachelor's degree I had my register Municipal Clerk's certificate okay and I was also in law school as well thank you all those things qualify you as a business administrator yes yes as much so as any other business administrator that's ever been here in the history of the town so then you're saying there's a little loophole in there there's no loophole you don't know what the qualifications are to be a business administrator so I can ask question I'm simply asking if you meet the qualifications okay how many people he answered he answered the question how many people applied for that yeah plenty of people and it's going just well thank you like to um have a motion to approve this resolution I'll make that motion I'll second motion seconded it and seconded by councilman lamb Council vice president oul yes councilman lamb just want say I look forward to Mr salon's stewardship and professionalism he's one of the um only applicants I've seen in government experience over 20 years that has his RMC it's a very hard um program and I'm glad to have him on board so I vote yes thank you councilman Council Coy I abstain councilman lman I've known uh John for a long time and I have no doubt in his conf and he's going to be able to do the job yes thank you councilman coun please don't yell out if you want to speak let's do it the right way councilman Quin I'm going to stain to until I learn more about him council president Coleman yes resolution AA May discussion I'm going to retract my my request on that one if Dave wants it you can have it I'm sorry is that a motion what is that no I any discussion on resolution AA a to if there's no discussion we'll take a roll call okay no discussion roll call take a motion need a motion I'm sorry I'll make that motion second a motion made by councilman lamb and second by councilman lman councilman lamb yes councilman lman yes councilman zosi abstain again please Council ion yes Council quinis yes Council vice president otoul yes council president Coleman yes going to return to resolution Q okay that was me please go ahead Dave all right thank you um I just have a a question on the dollar amount the 156,000 is is that more or less than um previously how did we come up with that number they bought the salt after it snowed three times that's how we came up with that number they they have to buy the salt Dave you you've been here for a couple years they always buy the salt all right I'm just asking a question all right okay and I wanted to know how did we come up with that amount and there's a way to say it okay there's a way to respond and there's a way to say it right Dave you've voted for the salt every year you've been here except for except for the year that I'm the mayor now you want to separate it out Sol the amount uh it it varies depending on how much they put out and then they have to like fill that big triangle thing up you know that thing at DPW that they hold all the salt I I believe it might be based on previous consumption right and when they use it they like replace it and they buy it from okay the contractor that you you probably approved at the previous administration put in place okay okay like a motion I'll make motion second the last two years motions made by councilman lman and second by councilman lamb councilman lman yes councilman lamb yes councilman Sosi yes councilman ion yes councilman quinis yes counc vice president yes council president Coleman yes want to move to the reports take a motion to move the reports I'll take the motion second motions made by councilman lman and second by councilman lamb councilman lman yes councilman lamb yes councilman Sosi yeah I like to um I'm happy to see under the recreation department uh everything is up for for 2023 and then uh under the building department the building permits um are down compared to uh 2022 so I guess all that liquid style development is going down thank you Council ion yes councilman quinis yes Council vice president otou yes council president colan yes okay moving on to approval of bills take a motion motion to approve the bills who made the first is there first is there first um I thought it was I'll take first Mr Lan and Lynn took the second a motions made by councilman lman and seconded by Council vice president otoul councilman lman yes Council vice president otol yes councilman Sosi yes councilman lamb he abstain from all bills pay aable s HF zarski all bills payable Dy McGuckin attorneys at law and all bills payable to magistrate salaries and yes to the balance councilman nson yes councilman quinis uh just abstain from all bills paid to Remington vering Engineers yes to the balance council president Coleman yes accept all bills paid to Preferred Behavioral Health elected officials comments anybody wish to comment I could make a lot of comments well all right let's let's go in order here we'll start from my far right councilman lamb thank you chair I just want to uh wish my wife a Happy Valentine's Day but she she left for her Board of Ed meeting so I I hope to join her tonight that'll be our uh our date night at the board of ed meeting hope to see everybody there um just want to just touch base really quick on that the constituents of my ward have been crying out for ambulance service for some time now they've come here at Town Hall and they've demanded it they've come out in Mass to community meetings on the island and demanded it that I came back and talked to the mayor and got that for them but the last mayor mayor Mill refused to respond last year councilman quinis and councilman Sosi rejected every effort I made to deliver Ambulance Service in my ward we tried to fund the ambulance service by cutting the mayor's newsletter both of you voted no to that we tried to fund it by cutting the no show Patron jobs in code enforcement and the McCoo money grab again you vote both voted note of that and today you're voting and say no again no we not can I finish is my time sure can thank you our town has been left in a disastrous Financial shape by Mo Hills Administration was more interested in building out a massive code enforcement department and dolling out huge overdevelopment projects that he wasn't delivering Ambulance Service to my ward but today I'm delivering Around the Clock Ambulance Service to my my w because they deserve it no one should wait a half an hour or more for an ambulance that's all for tonight thank you thank you Mr clinson wow um again I guess he didn't hear earlier when they said no calls ever gone 30 minutes it's usually I think the average is seven and a half or eight and a half minutes for an ambulance that includes the Barrier Island when we do go with the CSO program it's not going to be that one is going to be permanently staffed on that island it's going to be staffed at the base of the bridge so they can go either direction so you didn't necessarily achieve what you're talking about that's not true it is true um and by uh ignoring section 5.7 of the code uh um uh 5.7b of the Town ordinance you're violating our Town's own ordinance okay uh our regular scheduled meeting was on January 31st and the next regularly scheduled meeting is on the 28th that makes today's meeting a special meeting so most of what's on here probably doesn't carry please read section 5.7 of the municipal code and I direct that to you guys so you all understand what's going on um it's not about with with the csos and the police it's it's not about uh the money there's plenty of money available we've already concluded that there's a 40 I I saw as of January I mean sorry December 31st 2023 there was a $46 million cash Surplus in our in our uh in the township uh books on the books $46 million we don't need to cut captains to use that money um it's not about uh the EMTs because everybody up here agreed sure we'll get another truck and we'll get another eight uh csos because it can't hurt to have more people helping out helping out everybody uh and it's not about the salaries because Dan rodri actually voted to give both the C the uh fop and the PBA uh their last contract salary negotiations a couple years ago he voted for yes for both of them if he really wanted to do something that might have been a time to start um everyone that spoke gave you uh countless facts today look them up no one made these facts up they're out there so if you question myself or my loyalty this to this town or the information I give you I promise you I'm not making anything up although I may make an occasional mistake or misspeak on something but the facts are out there please all of you do your homework um and then one last thing I want to touch on and I hope I don't offend council with this one um they're right they did look at uh Dan's ordinance for removing the two police Chiefs uh two two police captains and they did say there that maybe he has legal grounds to do so but I think the the gentleman that got up and spoke wasn't talking specifically about the legality of removing two police officers he was talking about the legality of what is going to happen when we don't have those people doing those jobs what's going to happen when somebody sues us because we didn't properly supervise our our law enforcement officers so I ask you did you guys look into that how much is it going to cost us when somebody dies uh because somebody wasn't trained correctly or somebody gets hurt because the cops are not sensitive enough or whatever reason somebody wants to sue the town did we look at that cost when we factored in the idea of getting rid of these Chiefs these captains thank you councilwoman I'm sorry I'm going to pass because I'm I would say things that I would regret so I'd rather do it with a clearer head and not so angry right now I'm very angry okay councilwoman OU passes Mr councilman nerson yes I'd just like to take a minute to commend mayor rodri for his steadfast commitment to the people of Tom's River really nobody here saw the stacks of positives about what we were doing here Stacks only the negative there it is there isn't a person in this room with skin thick enough to endure what he endures and everybody's just trying to trip him up at every turn this is about shared sacrifice and he doesn't control any of our votes whatever you think he has no control over me thank you and I'd like to Direct One thing to Jim quins when we had that Zoom meeting and that inappropriate call or called in with the really pornographic comments you were the only one laughing I'd like to know why you were laughing we were appalled that's a great question it was because of the absurdity of the entire meeting and yeah right you were laughing at call Mr Rodrick says he's a personal friend of Mr Lin he's known him for years how come he didn't recognize that it wasn't Mr Lo's voice when I did and allowed it to get that far that's why I was laughing it was out of control voice that was your that was you're saying it was his voice making that I saying it wasn't his voice and half Mr didn't identify that so cut him off that's obviously not the reason that's all we were saying was cut it off the IT guy could have muted it in a split second again he did not he did not call it out is what I was laughing I just like to know why you were laughing okay well I guess that's why you were laughing all right let's get back on track here it's getting late s lman I've I've sat on a lot of boards in my time but this one Takes the Cake I have been called every filthy name that you could think of in the world for some some somebody like me I take it very personal I didn't I don't think anybody in this room should be taking personal things against all of these committee people who have volunteered their time to do this they've gone through all of this we may have $46 million in reserves those reserves are balanced against our bond ratings I don't know whether people realize that or not but you keep spending your reserves and your bond ratings go down with it the costs go up when your bond rating goes down so if mayor Mo Hill was taking the reserves and spending on stuff as the the councilman as the committee was saying then that was wrong because that's going to affect the bonding later on I've been through this so many times I've been on so many different boards in this town over the course of the years 1976 I came into town with with The Originators of most of the stuff that got oriented here landlord tenant advisory committee I was a chairman of it uh planning board board of adjustment County Board of adjustment I sat through all of these meeting ings but I have never seen this kind of discourse in my entire life in a public body like this never I've never seen it disrespect look I never called anybody a name in my life I don't know why anybody would feel appropriate to call me one and I'm telling you I've could call some filthy ones and I don't even hear the Crickets here like I heard on for for 10 minutes that I could hear on that meeting on the zoom this town did Zoom meetings all through covid-19 all the time for a couple of years you me to tell me that one Zoom meeting couldn't be held now for a town County meeting committee meeting it's absurd there was reasons why it didn't work and it's because somebody didn't want it to work how could you do it all through covid-19 and have that thing blow up like it did it's impossible this is bad politics at its worst I really feel sorry for the people who are trying to portray some fairness in this thing I understand what Dan has proposed I we've talked about the various things that he's doing I don't know the specific names of the individuals but I know the the rationale behind what he's doing I don't have any problem with that and on Valentine's Day I'd like to apologize to my wife who's in the room that that she had to go through this too because she's been called the same names by people that she knows in town until she explains why and what we're doing then most people are reasonable and they understand it nobody's here to look to cut a policeman out of his job job most of my family the younger people are all cops whether it's in Trenton Mercer County state troopers U major in state troopers one of my closest friends whose two sons are state troopers I'm the last guy in the world that's going to cut or defund police in this particular circumstance it's something that I understand that the mayor met with the chief there was an issue they couldn't resolve it I met with the chief and we had an agreement that we would work together trying to make things better we couldn't resolve it the next day it blew up why did it blow up because something somebody else said not me he had an agreement with me didn't work out that doesn't make him a bad guy but it certainly doesn't make me one either because I made an attempt I've sat in this seat and I asked my Gentleman friend let's work together let's talk about stuff because so that this the two biased people here who are biased in the last Administration and it's obvious it was that way always not by me did I not say to you let's work together we would talk yes you did okay did we talk no okay I reached out tried to it's not going to work it's just not going to work I'm sorry that that's the case because it's embarrassing to everybody it should be embarrassing to everybody that's what's happened to this town I'm really sorry because we used to be the strongest Republican Bastion in the state sometimes nationally because we were so strong in Tom's River in do Township especially this town is now split into three different categories on Republicans only there's we're all fighting amongst the Republicans here it's a shame it's a terrible shame that's all I have to say I'm I hope everybody out there understands that I'm not here as a puppet to anybody I know Dan I know him a long time I voted for him when he was a Democrat because I believed in what he was saying and I'm one of the oldest Republicans in this town I've been around a long time I've seen everything I liked what he said I voted for him when he was a Democrat when he became a republican I congratulated him I said it's about time you recognize what you were all this time now they call him Democrat again he's not a Democrat he's a republican I can tell you that otherwise I would have never voted for him thank you people I'm sorry thank you George I had a lot to say but I'm not going to go into except to tell you that when I was asked to consider taking this job I only took it because I thought I have no ties to anybody any company anything and I thought I might be able to help make Tom River in an even better place and I know there's two different sets of opinions here but let me tell you something I'm a resident of Toms River 2 and whatever the outcome is it's going to affect me and my very sick wife sorry and I never would have voted for something that I thought would hurt her or me and that's all I said I'm sorry councilman Choi I'm sorry I skipped over I apologize profusely no problem I'm sorry all right there's nothing to be sorry about all right it's been two years and one month since I've been here and for the same reasons that they're stating how they got involved I wanted to give something back to the town that's been so good to me I raised three children here they went through kid and garden through their senior year off to college I got one son in the military he's a Marine uh he's based in uh Cuba now uh so he should be out of Harm's Way and um and and at the reor I said these seats are temporary okay and it's an honor and a privilege to sit here and I respect everyone that sat here before me and I look at these pictures of the previous Mayors the men and women the men and women that sat up on Council and I go back a long ways in this town a long ways and it has never been like this in in discourse in the history of this town and there's only one common denominator why that is okay there has been a purging of this town hall in every Department it's a complete takeover and control slowly but surely and it all wants to be done within a 100 days so the voters will forget but they don't realize that more and more people are going to find out and more and more people are going to come to these meetings and and oppos this Administration and and and I say it's an it's an ugliness here it really is there is no more morale at the police department there's no more morale in town hall everyone is in fear of their jobs they're walking on eggs I tell them don't even recognize me don't even say hello to me because something bad will happen to you you and um and when I said that I wanted to resign before this new Administration took over was because I didn't want my family name associated with what I knew was going to come ahead but I had no idea that what it was going to be like so um I'll do my best I'll give my uh 100% if something's right that I agree on by uh the mayor and the Business Administration they got my vote but if I don't like it I'm going to State my reasons why and I'll I'll say no thank you and Happy Valentine's uh day to everybody and um and to president Coleman I I I know what you're going through and I still wish I had my wife so thank you thank [Applause] you this time I'd like to give the mayor a chance to speak the only thing that I'd like to touch on today is there's been talking from folks in the public and from councilman quinlisk about uh Surplus or what we would call reserves back when I was on um budget and finance a Township always has to maintain a certain amount of reserves in case there's some something tragic that occurs or some sort of natural disaster we're required to maintain a certain amount of money everyone knows taxes have been flat for the last three years what hasn't been flat is the cost of Township labor right we have new labor agreements that are two three 35% each year that increases costs to the township Millions each year several million dollarss except taxes have been flat so you say well how did the town do that the town does that by dipping into the reserves the only problem is once your reserve levels reach a certain point you get downgraded by moodies and standard of pores and then your bond rating instead of being AAA is what ours is now double A and what what could happen is you could you could fall below that and when that happens you pay outrageous interest rates on your debts something that would be catastrophic for Tom Zer so I'm left with a decision on how to pay for that am I going to pay for that or how are we going to pay for that are we going to pay for that by raising taxes and break a promise that myself and this newly elected Council has made to the public that we would not raise taxes and that we would reign in spending or do I reign in spending and and I'm I I'm I'm a man of my word this Council they're they're people of their word as well and we're reing in spending and it's uncomfortable and some people yes they've lost their jobs but everything continues on in town hall and services continue as they always have and that's all I have for tonight thank you mayor at this time like to open the meeting to any additional public comment Carlos amasar once again winterham guys we really need to sit down and communicate with each other of what we voting on so we could all have the same answers like I said I'm a special a guy so I only hear from you guys if you guys don't tell me what is going on I hear it but I'm just another fly flying around you guys need to get along better if not let me know I pay for dinner once a week so we all you guys could argue everything and we could come to an agreement the shenanigan that is going on how we are looking we looking like little kids and this is not we are big town we the big boys and we looking like little kids in front of all the news media anybody else in town now I do want to sit down with you sir and you guys all you guys I've been to the office three times I I haven't requested no meeting with you guys at all because I would like to sit down with you first I got sit down with the chief now today was my third time I've been to your office I would like to sit down with you and most importantly I would like to sit down with every single one of you guys because I found a solution where they would have walked out of here okay not fine but okay and at the same time our town would got what they deserve without bringing my can of his business and in an angle what happened at the zoom meeting that was a shenanigan should have never happen our our Tech guys should have cut that off right away unfortunately it happens I am glad that every mistake that had happened happened why because it's made a lot stronger and two you guys seen that our people our town is willing to come and fight for what's right you guys need to hear us out I understand you guys got to make a decision but making your decision has to be also seen our views explaining this is the come this is why it's not everybody's arguing about the but we have money and we can make money I can show the statistic I can show you numbers I could bring specialist to you guys to show you why are we not making money why tax revenue is low why because our business are low I'm a business owner I close three my business this year so I know why I had to let go or 40 people that used to work for me so please guys let's sit down stop with this Shenanigans if you guys can't work together then guess what there's going to be a new team in there because the t is going to come upside down before and hey before the storm this is the storm right now come is going to come will you guys be after that's up to you guys I should you know the police department they feel weird when I'm supporting them because usually I'm the one on the opposite line but I support you guys as well you see that I'm not saying you you you none of that I'm saying we can work this out in a better way of communication because it's all about communicating how we going to do things not just get it done because if you get it done I feel like my voice is getting cut off like I don't count but if you include me and say listen this is how we're going to do things to save this this and this guess what we all could come to an agreement and that's what we got to come forward from now on so let this be the last meeting where nobody knows what we speaking about we all got to be in the same page if not once a week or once a month we're going to have a meeting before this meeting to re go through all the whole list and be on the same page so please guys let's move forward I'm going to let this week pass but I want a meeting with every one of you guys in the same room I will pay for that dinner so we can move forward because I could improve this community a lot without my my craziness and you guys have all the powers to get it done especially you sir I know you got a crazy job coming into here I knew it that's why I said to you the first meeting I congratulate you because I know you're going to go through a lot but at the same time we got to communicate with them you cannot be fighting everybody because you at the end you would things good but everybody will see as bad because the way you communicate with them and you know Hey listen we got it done we survived the the worst now how can V so let's sit down and really see everything and really make a police department happy let's make it up today we can't go back what it's done but we can make it up and let's not wait 20 years or 10 years we can make it up as soon as possible thank you guys thank you Carlos yes ma'am before you talk could I just say one thing to you yes we all have dogs every one of us up here have dogs I have the biggest one of all of them great things so when I tell you my my thing is not to kill a dog under any circumstances that's all I just want to let you know I did have the talks okay um I I have to say that I've been to a number of Town Council meetings over the years and I've never seen anything like this circus that I've been to um I was here on the 18th of January and my sense was that the new people on the council had already made their decisions before they before the public even commented and they didn't nothing registered that the public was saying on those particular issues it was like they just were totally disregarded and you had already made up your mind um how you were going to vote and I think that has to change um the public uh you represent the residents of Tom's River um so I think you have to take into consideration you're going to hear perspectives in the when you come to these meetings that may be things that you didn't considered but you need to take those things into account before you cast your vote um the other thing that I did um I um totally opposed to is this bashing of the prior administration at each meeting I don't want to hear that this is a new day a new year um a new month and that is not helpful at all to hear that and I'm also opposed to people on the council voting for issues that there's a conflict of interest for example uh at the January 18th meeting on the uh certificate of occupancy with the inspections that uh went by the wayside Mr lamb I believe you're a real estate attorney and you did not hesitate to vote uh on that issue she led the effort last year I had a rally outside here outside Town Hall we at that Rally or actually led the effort last year to repeal it so I'm happy that we were successful with mayor rodri thank you right but I don't believe that you should have voted on the issue so if you have a confli if there's some type of a conflict you should abstain from the vote um I mean that's what the public would expect on of you as Council people that are professional and ethical and I think that there just has to be some decorum and some professionalism uh like I said the the the council I this is just like a circus and it's deteriorated to an embarrassment I mean we' have gotten so much negative press be on uh News 12 every newspaper article there's one to two newspaper articles on a daily basis and it's not positive news um I mean we'll never live down the Marshall case that happened here CI uh but this is just totally ridiculous and I think that people really have to go home and do some soul searching on why they're on this Council and um and act in the best interest of the of the residents of Tom's [Applause] River my name again don't my name or Phil brilliant 79 Holly Tree Lane um lot said about the meeting tonight definitely was interesting um I think uh you know a couple things hit on one is and I said this when I was here on January 18th and whether anybody in the room likes it or not we have a new mayor and we have a new councel and you are our mayor and counsel okay I'm G to ask you though for a favor I think we need more transparency by going to that Zoom meeting on January 30 first it sent a message to the community okay it was unfortunate how it ended and I'll get back to that in a second okay but that that was hiding from the issue okay I think somebody put out there this will give everybody the opportunity to provide their comments and they can get in the room whatever it is I mean I run Zoom every day it's tough to get people the opportunity to hear that was a total disaster and I will give the clerk as much Kudos as possible it was very difficult to manage and you did your best but that's not the form we should be in Co is over people should be able to speak their mind and give their opinions here and then to go two o'clock on Valentine's Day on Ash Wednesday during the week I mean it SS the it sends the same message you know again I'm a little thankful it's not 7 o'clock at night because I do have reservations tonight but at the same time there's other days of the week and there's other places to hold the meetings I think by sending that message out to the community you're saying we want to keep people away we want to keep those people who are working or those people who don't have computers or those people who don't have the opportunity we don't want to give them the opportunity to speak and I think it sends the wrong message I ask you to consider that okay you know council president Coleman I will give you 100% Kudos you answered and said I don't know I don't know the answers I don't know the answers but yet we still vote Yes and I think it's important because you know councilman lman you said it this is important business this is the business of the town of a 100,000 people and all the people are asking for is that when you vote you have full understanding and knowledge okay and I you know again commend councilman Coleman he didn't but he did vote Yes I would have rather seen him abstain you know but that's the things you need to know what you're voting on it's very important uh just quickly going through here I apologize so I'm G to be go right to the point so I had sent a letter on February 1st okay because of what happened during that last Zoom meeting okay it was an atrocity it was out of control and unfortunately it ended with an anti-semitic incident okay had we not it on Zoom that would have never happened and I will you know councilman ion I will tell you as a Jewish individual I was offended but at the same time I was laughing for about 20 minutes because I had no idea what was going on so I don't know M Mr Quinn's comment I think it was the timing and everything that was an Abomination but it ended with something that hurt me to the core it hurt all it should have never happened did it offended all of us and I appreciate that but why did it happen because the mayor and the council president made the decision to put us on Zoom as soon as the guy was off topic he should have been muted he and by the way to correct what happened before when he came on it was at the same time the councilman lman was announced this coming on so when his voice happened people thought that was councilman lman but clearly it was not oh my God that's what if you go back and watch I didn't know that either yes that was what happened you go back and watch it that's what happened so it was I I was very mesmerized by The Crickets yeah that's how he got the mic okay but I asked the day after for the resignations of the mayor and council president Coleman because they put us in that room and they put that Zoom bomber and gave him the op they didn't put him there I I don't know that I don't know anything about it I know mayor robrick said there's an investigation going on on but they gave him the platform to be there and by giving him that platform they allowed that to happen I asked for the resignations I got crickets I got no response I then added I'm not resigning excuse me I'm not resigning are you going to resign from the Municipal Utilities Authority that Mo put you on when you went bankrupt Mo put you on the MUA to get your health insurance are you going to resign from that sir since you're so against my Administration maybe you should resigned I think I do good on the MUA you do you do you get like a $40,000 health insurance policy for one meeting a month you do very well on the MUA you do very well no it's not it's not your buzzer went off it's not your time your buzzer you are obsessed with me I wish you would post about something else oh it's absurd it's absurd you need to get a hobby you need to get a hobby get a hobby fil gent Gent get get a hobby or a job get a hobby get a hobby or a job gentl get out of here gentl no no you need to learn respect for the public no sir no no you asked me to resign sir you res right so you're coming after me not vice versa you're AB you're for office please remove in the room please run for office I didn't get a response on that run for office offic this gentleman from please I've asked several times I was willing to listen to you the whole time yelling and screaming is just it's childish it's childish it's not going to do anything to help anybody why you screaming they will never be another Zoom meeting in this Council that I know of never happen go goodbye sir oh I know I will never be on another Zoom committee meeting guaranteed he is disruptive REM in the room goodbye yes sir uh my name is Bill morch it's a 196 Cranberry Road uh Tom's River would you your bill morch you're welcome um I am a retired Captain I'll get that out there uh right away um thank you for your service no problem um basically what I want to do is I want to just confirm that email is the best way to get with every one of you you can get me anytime on email yes email is the best way in your Council seats email is the best ma'am email okay um my name is on a petition that's obviously going around I'm sure you saw it in the newspaper um it's going to try to resend or amend or send to referendum to the voters um the uh ordinance where you just took away two Captain's positions and the patrol officer um what I'm going to ask in in the email just want like I said I just came up here to put on record you guys have been beating up enough tonight so I'm not going to go on too long um is basically I'm just going to ask for a sit down with each and each and every one of you so we can discuss this it seems like that you you did you you voted on this ordinance and I don't know if you've all had all the information you really needed in reference to this um you know some of you you just came on you just came on that that first meeting I I really don't know how much information you all had this um so I just wanted to to let you know I will be reaching out for you Justin you're my you're my you're my ward council person um so you know you spoke to me on my porch so whether you want to meet me here at Town Hall my home your home coffee shop wherever I'd like to reach out to you so we can have a little bit more discussion on this thank you ma'am hello again uh Mr Coleman my name is Janet Lang 37 seater Drive um I had sent you an email the other day uh inquiring what happened to all of the public comments that were submitted um to the clerk to be read at the January 31st meeting I noticed that in this entire meeting tonight they were not provided to the public and public members submitted those comments in in with given the impression that their words would be heard when they couldn't be here in person this meeting was was also prohibitive of being here in person so the clerk uh and you uh you you haven't given a voice to those people who submitted public comment those public comments have not been read you know what these are are they that are you about to read them these are the positive comments that were sent to the mayor in support of this and let me just finish okay and then I'll let you talk in support of approving this ordinance this all of them came through his email okay I chose not to read the ones that were part of last meeting because it was disrupted because I also didn't want to go through reading all of these I wanted it to be fair okay both there's both sides okay so I wanted to be fair yes that is that's an excellent point I acknowledge that because it does seem like a very daunting task to do sir but the only difference being when someone submits an email to yourself to a Township attorney to a public official um they they are not given the impression that that email is going to be read to the public and that's the difference the statements that were submitted to the clerk were requested by yourself and the council so that for last those for those specific comments to be heard and you you have not uh voiced those comments and I would just like to say I think that is a violation of the Sunshine Law because you you specifically you specifically asked us for those comments and gave us the impression that they would be read council president I think it would be best for the notice for the meeting said they would be placed into the record and they have been they are part of the minutes they are on record every one of those comments is on record in the minutes that were approved tonight that's correct and those minutes are available on the township website already yes no once they're approved at this meeting they become available so they'll be available after tonight okay so but do you understand my point that you are stifling the voice again of the public who who reacted in good faith and in response to your request for comment many people provided it and then you did not voice we just answered your question okay we just answered your question council president I'm sorry she's right and you're right she's right because those people had their their opinion should have been read before they got approved before today's meeting their voice no longer counts because it got approved in minutes that nobody got to read yet nobody knows what those people said by by the way Jim those those things that were submitted they were on both sides of the aisle that's fine okay absolutely that's absolutely fine but but that my my point still stands is that you asked for public comment to be submitted and then you never provide never voiced it for those people before the decision was made on the ordinances and I feel that that was not in good faith I understand your point name's Tom Russell I live at 544 Cornell Avenue and Tom dver I don't want to make a comment about all the stuff you've covered already today that's a waste of time sir could you hold L of the microphone you can pick it right out of that stand and put it up to your mouth so we can hear you thank you you may not want to hear me I say I'm not going to comment on the stuff you already covered for today it's That's History Jonathan I want to say thank you I have tried for over 5 months to get a response I am a member of a radio club any of you people know what ham radio is oh yeah used to have them okay I had kickers why don't you why aren't you a member of jars I uh us kickers anymore and I don't have ham radios I have three cell phones I run a session at once a month required by the FCC we honor and administer the test for you to get your license to get back on the radio come on over and talk to us I've tried for over five months to clarify what's going on at Riverwood Park Building 2 in five months I've had one town representative Jonathan that return my call thank you he's trying something but here's what's going on we are in LLC have been since 1971 we've been meeting every Thursday night with the exception of holidays Thanksgiving falls on a Thursday and Riverwood Park building number two at 7:00 every Thursday night on the second Thursday we run a business meeting for the club and its business on the third Thursday it's at FCC required exam to get your license and the rest of the Thursdays of the month we train on soldering antenna building teaching ham teaching CW anything to do with Communications we want to know why we can't have our building back that we've been using for 35 years one night a week right now we're bumping heads with somebody else who tells us the town doesn't want you there we just want one night a week Thursday nights at Riverwood Park John thank you thank [Music] you yes sir thank you very much for the opportunity to speak here can you hear me all right yes sir okay my name's Captain George Arthur Eisenhower Jr obviously they call me Ike and before you ask yeah we're related however I also am a member of the jsar club and I would first of all like to thank the town for the use of that building for the last 30 plus years and I certainly hope we stand ready to be able to do something for for the town when the time comes the time of course being a disaster I can only speak for myself I'm a member of the National Hurricane watchet I go on the radio every time a hurricane starts up the coast give uh information as to what's happening here and have information about what's happening throughout the Eastern Seaboard cuz obvious that's where the storms are I too would ask the same thing that Tom before me here did that we be able to find a way to work out so we can have our meetings the one night a week the main reason I came here is I don't know where to start and obviously you people are the top so I would personally like any information on who who I can take we'll get you building my concern too oh we'll get you building Mr Sal were you given a reason why you weren't allowed to use it anymore I think the warming shelter took their space okay so we'll get you another building yeah no they're they're familiar with what's going on it would take me a long time to reiterate it I thank you all very much for your patience and your concern thank you thank you thank you yes ma'am Danon it's from Rand messenger Street I'm just going to read the email that I sent to put it on the record because I only heard back from two of the councilmen so bear with me if some things have changed since yesterday good afternoon mayor and council members my name is Dana toolan and I'm writing you before tomorrow's meeting to make make you aware of my concerns and displeasures of how things are being hand handled since January 1st of this year first and foremost although the mayor and his public information officer believe that I am working on behalf of the former mayor and Council I will make it very clear that in that that in fact is not the case and if the mayor remembers I called out the former mayor and council members for things that they did that I that I did not agree with so let me set the record very straight for all of you I work under my own opinion and more importantly my own factchecking now that we're clear on that let me expl let me explain my reason reasons for this email the mayor is under the impression that he in his words has executive authority to do whatever he chooses while he's in office that is false a former councilman he should be aware of how things are done the mayor has to run most of the choices through the council and they need to be presented to the public on an agenda it is then that the council gets to place their votes on the items it has become very clear during the last six weeks that the council president doesn't understand how that works screaming over Mr Quinn quinley L and Mr chosi allowing the mayor to carry on and once again ruin the meeting allowing Mr lamb to speak whenever someone else was speaking telling other council members how to vote and having total disregard for Robert's rules in professional decorum are just a few of the questionable things that the council president has allowed to happen already along with POS possible ethics violations the council was elected by the residents of this town to act in the best interest of those residents so far the only best interest that seemed to be of any concern turn to most of the council are those of the mayor this is not a dictatorship he is the mayor of Tom's River two of the council members seem to have been asleep at different times or just completely disengaged from the concerns of the residents when they're speaking and dismissing people trying to speak because we don't want to hear about the same thing anymore you serve us the residents of Tums River and let me remind you we not all of us put you in those seats and we can also remove you from them so it would be in your in your best interest to start listening to the concerns of the the resident and not just the mayor speaking of removing people the absolute disrespect for the men and women of our police department is something I never thought I would experience in our town depleting and defunding the police department is absolutely disgraceful the lack of respect for them and for us as residents just shows how most who most of you really are personal vendettas being used as Weapons towards the residents and police officers is unacceptable this is not a police versus CSO fight it is a political Ambush not one president in this town will argue against more csos but they will absolutely argue about the reduction in police officers there are ways to do both but once again the mayor thinks he knows everything and can do as he chooses and as the council it is your sworn oath to act in the best interests of the town and its residents not the mayor while we are still on the topic of removing people how do you well rest your heads at night knowing that he has fired people who have served this town for decades we know the mayor can point people to any position however to come in and obliterate the makeup of town hall as well as other departments and appoint people who are unqualified pay them twice the salaries of those fired is absolutely insane but Insanity seems to be the theme of this Administration I'm fully aware that this email will fall mostly on deaf years but that's to be expected since January 1st so hopefully reading this next part will get your attention I'm calling for the resignations of council president Craig Coleman due to incompetence Council vice president l t due to conduct Unbecoming as well as incompetence and the resignation of Mayor Daniel rodic for his inability to govern as stated in the oath that he took on January 1st 2024 anyone else yes sir hello my name is John Rose 17 Cedar Creek Lane in Toms River and uh my comments have nothing to do with anything happen here tonight so um back in August I sent an email to the Department of Public Works regarding three intersections in my neighborhood that myself and my neighbors feel need a stop sign and I never heard a response back I reached out to Justin Justin was nice enough to send me a email chain that there are a couple people talking about it but I haven't heard anything back from anybody about what's going on with the stop signs and and when was this in August you said in August I sent the initial email out weren't we weren't in off office at the time but if you need a stop sign we'll stay after Mee I'll talk to you yeah we'll get we'll get you a stop sign we just put in uh one in Holiday City that people have been screaming for for I don't know six seven years we just did it uh tonight so wherever you feel you need one we'll put yeah well Justin said he talk to me after the meeting about it all right thank you president thank you um Bay Stream Drive and Cedar Creek Bay Stream Drive is the the main road and then Cedar Creek Sand Creek and Holly Creek they're all T intersections so they may or may not even need require or need a stop sign but my neighbors feel that they should have a stop sign all right thank you yes sir hello my name is Thomas vinski I live right here on 309 higher Street and I don't know what that lady was talking about but there's already too many officers in this town every time I look out my back window I see an officer basically sleeping at High School South now I don't know about if this is we're in the movies now where you need an officer at every single school but but if you add all those officers together there's probably a wasted like four million in this town from that now I don't I I really do not know why we need this many officers in this town and how many of them are sleeping in front of schools all day they're spoiled they get overpaid already I don't know how many times we already since the 80s got them new cars since then um if you're just parked in front of High School South I don't think you need a brand new SUV um you might as well give them back the old Caprices but it's it like the mayor said he wanted to get rid of two of the officers to to put in what eight eight amts I would go with the mayor on that one because we definitely need the ambulances out on the streets that's that's all I could tell you Bob t molan u 109 messenger my comment is just this you the the new people up there you even the old people you say when ask a question do you know who this person is do you know what this is going on and you sit there and you don't know who or what you're voting for but you vote and then you try to tell us that you're your own people voting for what you think is right I can't comprehend how you can vote for what you think is correct if you don't know what it is that you're voting on or who it is that you're voting on I think you've lost the complete confidence of the people that were here tonight and I'm sure the people that were watching this on YouTube or the town Network or whatever it it it's incomprehensible that you don't know you admit you don't know who what where when what you vote in defense in defense of the question that was posed to the council president asking it for specifics to one of the ordinances he might not have known every every specific of it but I can assure you we were schooled in 90% of it and I can guarantee there were past Council meetings where every ordinance wasn't thoroughly vetted by each councilman they might have had some questions about it and they still voted on it so we we're going to we're going to try to be as transparent as we can and have all the information for every ordinance going forward because we are new and and I appreciate I appreciate your insight into that thank you what what I think about is these things should if you don't know it's easy to say let's table it most of this stuff does not have to be done do your research do know what's going on maybe part of the problem is I don't know about you people the agenda is very very late on coming out if it comes out a couple hours before the meeting start had the agenda ahead of time you could look into it so when people come they can ask you questions and you have insight into what is being asked of you when you people tonight have no response you lost it can I just make can I just make a comment talk I lost I I would like to respond to that and one of my questions after the meeting was going to be I would like to get the agenda sooner myself and and I think we all would app that very much because sir let me interrupt maybe maybe this will help okay we are going to have agenda meetings okay uh before the major meetings take place and at that time there'll be two two Council people there department heads the mayor and we'll go through each resolution that's being proposed and make sure that we all understand and questions will be answered at that meeting so that when we come to the final meeting we will have the information that you are talking about allow me to make one [Music] comment ahead of time so when we come in here we don't commit maybe fired up because we just got it and we didn't realize it we can do our research we'll do our best make one comment although we didn't know the individual people that were named on these things we did have a concept of what was going to happen and how it was going to happen and why it was going to happen so we voted on the concept of what was taking place not on the individual names of the people involved that's all but the concept you should have that concept satises I did and that's why I voted the way I did I understood the concept and that's why I voted are we going to Executive session council president I need to close the public uh portion of the meeting May I have a motion to close the public portion of the meeting make a motion motions made by Mr nion second Mr lopen there all in favor I all right there is a resolution to go into executive session item 18 is a resolution of the township Council Township of Toms River Ocean County New Jersey authorizing an executive session to discuss confidential matters covered under njsa 10 col 4-12 B including executive session minutes and Personnel matters I have a motion make a motion second Mr n seconded by Mr lman motion was made by councilman ion and second by councilman lman councilman ion yes yes councilman lman yes councilman seosi yes councilman lamb yes Council vice president otoul yes councilman quinlisk yes council president Coleman yes okay [Music] let [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] n [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] n [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] n [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] n [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] so I need a motion to go to go back into public session okay it's been made motion was made to return to public session was by L and seconded by Tom n all in favor I I we'll take a motion to approve the executive session minutes from December 5th 2023 I'll make the motion second motion made by councilman Sosi and second by councilman lman councilman Sosi yes councilman lman yes councilman lamb yes councilman quinis yes Council vice president OU early councilman Coleman yes councilman Ivon yes I'll now take a motion to adjourn the meeting make a motion second all in favor I I I thank you happy yes go